Rally2 (ex-R5) News

[Rally Power]

Citroen testing an Evo 2 model of the C3?
https://twitter.com/NachoVillarin/status/1318707412698828800

It could be, as the road C3 got a facelift (named Phase II) a couple of months ago. Anyway, the R5 version has been constantly improved although PSA Sport is not using the Evo badge every time they sort a new joker kit, like they did in the 208 and DS3 years.

[TheFlyingTuga]

It could be, as the road C3 got a facelift (named Phase II) a couple of months ago. Anyway, the R5 version has been constantly improved although PSA Sport is not using the Evo badge every time they sort a new joker kit, like they did in the 208 and DS3 years.

The Evo on the Peugeot and DS3 was a very extensive joker. At least on the DS3 that I know better, it was a lot of parts on the cooling, direction, suspension and alternator. All at the same. Still, that car is a bit crazy xD

[Jarek Z]

Pontus Tidemand was testing Proton Iriz R5 at a secret location somewhere in the UK last week:
https://www.facebook.com/MellorsElliot/photos/a.855557731230661/3386507791468963/?type=3&__tn__=-R

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Re Iriz R5 - two were going to run this weekend at the NH Stages at Oulton Park, the first event of the MSN Circuit Championship.

But its just been postponed due to the UK lockdown. :(

[Sulland]

Had been good to see Pontus in an Iriz in a couple of rallies!
Maybe in Sweden or Finland.

[Mirek]

Had been good to see Pontus in an Iriz in a couple of rallies!
Maybe in Sweden or Finland.

I'm sorry but using any money on a start with Iriz is like throwing them out of the window. Pontus needs a competitive machine.

[the sniper]

I'm sorry but using any money on a start with Iriz is like throwing them out of the window. Pontus needs a competitive machine.

Are we sure he'd be paying? The Mellors must have had some money to play with, as Oliver Mellors drove it fairly regularly. Gronholm testing it wouldn't have cost him anything...

I'm still not sure how far off the pace the Proton is. No way is it up there with the works Rally2s, but I don't think it's ridiculously far off. Oliver Mellors certainly isn't the quickest British driver and he wasn't massively off the pace of Matt Edwards on the Cambrian, on stages the latter knows like the back of his hand.

[Sulland]

Are we sure he'd be paying? The Mellors must have had some money to play with, as Oliver Mellors drove it fairly regularly. Gronholm testing it wouldn't have cost him anything...

I'm still not sure how far off the pace the Proton is. No way is it up there with the works Rally2s, but I don't think it's ridiculously far off. Oliver Mellors certainly isn't the quickest British driver and he wasn't massively off the pace of Matt Edwards on the Cambrian, on stages the latter knows like the back of his hand.

And there is only one way to find out where the car is compared to the best, get a top driver and compete internationally. That means ERC or WRC. Pontus has driven most R5s and will be able to pinpoint weak areas, as I am guessing he did after the test, then adjust and compete.
If potential buyers is to give the Iriz a secong glance, they need to know its potential. The Mellors know this, and are trying to move ahead with the project.

I like people with balls, that dare to challenge the best!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I like that too and wish them all the best with the Iriz project.

But I think the number of second-hand proven R5's now out there will limit any sales.

They could be cheap to hire though. The second Iriz R5 due for the NH Stages was hired from (Eugene) Donnelly Motorsport in N.Ireland.

[AnttiL]

Pontus has driven most R5s

Only old Fiesta and both Fabias. Competitively, that is. Also tested the Polo.

[Rally Power]

I like people with balls, that dare to challenge the best!

Besides the balls, they’ll likely need a bit more €ncouragement from Proton…

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.mellorselliotmotorsport.com/proton-iriz-r5/

https://www.mellorselliotmotorsport.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Proton-IRIZ-R5-Brochure-web.pdf

https://www.mellorselliotmotorsport.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Proton-Iriz-R5-costings.pdf

[Mirek]

350 BHP claim with an R5 car doesn't add much credibility.

[AnttiL]

350 BHP claim with an R5 car doesn't add much credibility.

Where does it say that?

[Mirek]

Here at the bottom picture, point 3.
https://www.mellorselliotmotorsport.com/proton-iriz-r5/

[TheFlyingTuga]

Here at the bottom picture, point 3.
https://www.mellorselliotmotorsport.com/proton-iriz-r5/

Well, either did they put the real figures, but as far as I know a R5 should be around the 300bhp margin (New cars)

[Mirek]

Car was running a bigger restrictor at National level in the UK so maybe referring more to the output and got left in the brochure. Certainly would explain its pace against 1.6 WRC Fiestas over the last couple of seasons..

Yes but the picture and the website advertises R5 and 350 BHP for real R5 is bullshit.

[Sulland]

What is the output of a new Fabia, C3 or i20 Rally2 today on hp/nm?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Yes but the picture and the website advertises R5 and 350 BHP for real R5 is bullshit.

No-one in the market to buy/hire one will take any notice of that 'claim'.

[the sniper]

Yes but the picture and the website advertises R5 and 350 BHP for real R5 is bullshit.

I almost prefer that to the more common 275/280 figures the manufacturers publicise. Everybody loves an optimist...! :D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Maybe the 350bhp is a maximum depending on the state of tune that is required/allowed.

[Mirek]

Maybe the 350bhp is a maximum depending on the state of tune that is required/allowed.

350 bhp is impossible for R5 and a complete nonsense. Period.

[br21]

350 bhp is impossible for R5 and a complete nonsense. Period.
Fully agree!

[Sulland]

Is 300 hp and 450nm far off the truth for a Rally2 upgraded car?

[br21]

Is 300 hp and 450nm far off the truth for a Rally2 upgraded car?

No, it's close, real figures are bit higher, but depends on fuel of course.

[Sulland]

What kind of different fuels can they be mapped for?

And how much does a race fuel add?
Is e85/flexifuel allowed in Rally2?

[Steve Boyd]

What kind of different fuels can they be mapped for?Fuel requirements are covered by FIA Appendix J Article 252 Art. 9 on page 6, here:
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/252_2020_wmsc_2019.12.04.pdf

[Sulland]

How much difference in price per liter is there btw the racefuels and pump price of 98 octan?

[TheFlyingTuga]

How much difference in price per liter is there btw the racefuels and pump price of 98 octan?

In here (Portugal), the racefuel cost around 5/6€ per litter. 98 special (ultimate, evologic and so on) goes around 1.70€/l so it's a big difference.

Cannot say for sure, but in our old lancer, the use of 98 oct or race fuel only gave us about 6/7 more bhp and 3% more Nm, however, the engine temperatures were much better with race fuel. We used the Sunoco one that is said to be the better one for that type of cars.
For instance, we tried the ETS for two races, and twice we blown up the turbo on the car, so, even between racing fuels there are differences.
I do believe that for most R5/Rally2 you either use Elf or VP tho.

[dimviii]

Cannot say for sure, but in our old lancer, the use of 98 oct or race fuel only gave us about 6/7 more bhp and 3% more Nm, .

without altering the engine map i suppose?

[TheFlyingTuga]

without altering the engine map i suppose?

You need diferent maps for diferent fuels (street to race and vice-versa) But same parameters as before. The combustion is better with Race fuel and a lot cleaner, there's where you got the gains.

[dimviii]

you have to alter the map properly to see the real advantage of the race fuel.
The gains you saw are almost nothing,probably due to not good altered map.

[br21]

I think most powerful fuel for R5 now is ETS. Some other are quite close, some other are not much better than 102 pump fuel (but are more stable). If I remember correct difference between Pb98 and proper race fuel was some 7% in case of R5

[Mirek]

You need diferent maps for diferent fuels (street to race and vice-versa) But same parameters as before. The combustion is better with Race fuel and a lot cleaner, there's where you got the gains.

I have very old (13 years old) dyno measurements from an Evo IX with 100 octane stock fuel (from that time) and 102 octane race fuel, both with the old 32 mm restrictor (gr.N rules from that time). The dyno is from one of the most well known tuners from here who at that time was also doing rallies himself. The graphs give 255 Hp/489 Nm for 100 octane stock fuel and 278 Hp/565 Nm for 102 octane race fuel. Also the torque peak for the race fuel is roughly 200 rpm lower and the power band is a bit wider.

[dimviii]

I have very old (13 years old) dyno measurements from an Evo IX with 100 octane stock fuel (from that time) and 102 octane race fuel, both with the old 32 mm restrictor (gr.N rules from that time). The dyno is from one of the most well known tuners from here who at that time was also doing rallies himself. The graphs give 255 Hp/489 Nm for 100 octane stock fuel and 278 Hp/565 Nm for 102 octane race fuel. Also the torque peak for the race fuel is roughly 200 rpm lower and the power band is a bit wider.

thats the right gains you can see if you maximize the benefits of a good race fuel

[Sulland]

How much fuel does a R5 drink per 10km SS, and on normal transport stages?

Will the cleaner racefuel also make the engine last longer?

The R5 engines seems to be very durable, it is nor very often you see engines breakedown on these cars, and that is impressive!

[br21]

Average fuel cons of R5 is around 55l per 100km on stage (depends on car, conditions, surface, driver, etc) and 10-20l per 100km on road section (mainly depends on driver and road type).
Better fuel maybe is not influencing engine life, but with Pb98 for example sensors like EGT or lambda live much shorter than on race fuel.
Yes, they are reliable, one of main factors is low boost they're running with.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

350 bhp is impossible for R5 and a complete nonsense. Period.

As an proper R5 car yes, but cant such a car be used under other regulations and use a different state of tune (restrictor) to produce more power ?

There were cars running in the BTRDA championship in the UK using Fiesta R5+ cars with more power than a homologated R5.

Mellors could be suggesting the same could be done to their Iriz.

[Mirek]

As an proper R5 car yes, but cant such a car be used under other regulations and use a different state of tune (restrictor) to produce more power ?

There were cars running in the BTRDA championship in the UK using Fiesta R5+ cars with more power than a homologated R5.

Mellors could be suggesting the same could be done to their Iriz.

I already answered that.

[Sulland]

Mr Prokop was out testing 4 different R5s the other day. Any reports from him after the tests, on what car he thought suited him best, and why?

Will he be taking the C3 for a test as well, or has that one been counted out?

[Tom K]

It is always difficult to judge from drivers' words, but after Fabia/Polo/i20 test I would say he was* most happy with Polo, but the next day he seems to be even more happy with Fiesta :) After first trio he told also that still 2 manus left, so maybe C3 is also in the game.

*My opinion is based on his film-review published on Facebook.

[Andre Oliveira]

He tested privateers cars... and then a factory one...

[PLuto]

He tested privateers cars... and then a factory one...

For first impressions about the car, it is not so important...

[Sulland]

I am guessing all cars were set up neutral, or roughly to his preferance. Otherwise it will be hard to compare on a short test.

[Andre Oliveira]

Video of Hyundai i20 N Rally2 test by Epic Rally Tribe

https://twitter.com/ewrcresults/status/1332007121035161603?s=21

[Andre Oliveira]

Tony Quinn new Fiesta Rally2

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnxPQXiXcAcN6sz?format=jpg&name=large

Pic by Ryan Preston

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hyundai full video - driver Huttunen:

https://youtu.be/0_go9zsFOxM

[Jarek Z]

In my opinion, that's one of ugliest rally cars I've ever seen.

Even uglier than Citroen BX?
https://bx4tc.nl/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Eiffelrally_2012_byJFPierre.jpg

[Kenneth]

That's the reason why I wrote one of.

BTW I accidently deleted original post, it was reaction on i20.

"In my opinion, that's one of ugliest rally cars I've ever seen."

[pantealex]

That's the reason why I wrote one of.

BTW I accidently deleted original post, it was reaction on i20.

"In my opinion, that's one of ugliest rally cars I've ever seen."

way better looking than i20 R5
new one doesn´t look so long, overall shape is better.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tanak in new i20 N Rally2

https://youtu.be/vx70zmik-vg

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.facebook.com/100013442557842/posts/1107400966384645/?d=n

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En_cXFIXEAEKqg4?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En_cXFEWMAEDsVV?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En_cXFJXUAI-s-6?format=jpg&name=medium

[Sulland]

Even uglier than Citroen BX?
https://bx4tc.nl/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Eiffelrally_2012_byJFPierre.jpg

saw the BX in Rally Sweden in 86. Looked underpowered compared to the others. But a lot of learning from Citroen on this car.

if anyone would like one, https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=311307220&damageUnrepaired=NO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&isSearchRequest=true&makeModelVariant1.makeId=5900&makeModelVariant1.modelId=6&pageNumber=2&scopeId=C&sfmr=false&searchId=c5499a11-a935-7cd0-aa10-5b1bdf582f90

[dimviii]

The difficulties of developing a new rally car in lockdown

Hyundai's latest Rally2 machine could debut next summer - if it can get out on the roads enough during the pandemic

https://dirtfish.com/rally/the-difficulties-of-developing-a-new-rally-car-in-lockdown/

[Jarek Z]

saw the BX in Rally Sweden in 86.

Was it as ugly as it looks in the pictures? ;)

[dimviii]

Was it as ugly as it looks in the pictures? ;)

i ve seen it at Acropolis too.Really ugly,and slow.

[Sulland]

Was it as ugly as it looks in the pictures? ;)

Yes, but a few other Gr B cars was not beuties the either. Metro, was made in a windtunnel, not a slick car as the RS200. The Lancia was also a bit strage to look at. But all is a matter of taste.
Had the BX been the quickest car, it had had a different legacy.

[AnttiL]

WRC Wings review of the new Hyundai i20 N Rally2 https://www.wrcwings.tech/2020/12/01/the-new-hyundai-i20-n-rally2-aero-review/

Also mentioned here that VW Polo GTI R5 production is ending https://dirtfish.com/rallycross/vw-to-stop-building-polo-gti-r5s-as-it-leaves-motorsport/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

VW clearly dont see rallying as any way to promote their electric-car future, and I can understand that.

But WRC managed ok when they left it and rally will too. There are still plenty of R5 cars available and more new ones coming.

[the sniper]

Will VW ever stop beating themselves up.

Once they feel the pain. But they're a big boy, it might take some time!

[Sulland]

The Polo is still one of the top R5 cars, so I am guessing they will sell whatever they have left, and maybe build a few new ones as well.

Do you think VW would have continued the program if R5 had been chosen as new top class?

[Mirek]

The Polo is still one of the top R5 cars, so I am guessing they will sell whatever they have left, and maybe build a few new ones as well.

Without ever ongoing development the car falls behind its competitors in half a year. Nobody being serious about his rally program would buy such car now.

And I'm pretty sure a lot of those who bought it feel bitter now.

[AnttiL]

Also notice how many drivers switched away from the Polo for this year. Kajto, Veiby, Lindholm, Ciamin...

[Mirek]

I heard that the car is pretty expensive to run and not an easy one to maintain. Only talk though, I don't know any owner personally.

[Jarek Z]

VW clearly dont see rallying as any way to promote their electric-car future, and I can understand that.

But WRC managed ok when they left it and rally will too. There are still plenty of R5 cars available and more new ones coming.

But there are actually 4 manufacturers only, when VW left - Ford, Skoda, Citroen and Hyundai...

[pantealex]

Printsport got new PoloR5 last week :(

Chassis #85
https://www.ewrc-results.com/carinfo/122-volkswagen-polo-gti-r5/?car=5080

[dimviii]

I heard that the car is pretty expensive to run and not an easy one to maintain. Only talk though, I don't know any owner personally.

br 21 will enlighten us i believe as he read it.

[Sulland]

The car Oliver used in Canaries, is that one just bought by Solbergs, so number 93 or something?

edit: It is Petters car, used in GB 2019 that gor swedish plates.

[Jarek Z]

Andras Hadik finishes 2020 Mikulas Rallye in the 4th position, but, what is more important, he wins this year's Hungarian Rally Championship. This title, together with Fourmaux's victory on Canary Islands, is probably the biggest achievement for Ford Fiesta Rally2 so far.

Final results of Mikulas Rallye:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/65994-taxi4-mikulas-rallye-2020/

Hadik's car:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/563659/

[Andre Oliveira]

PG Andersson was champion with one too.

Enrique Cruz won Canary Islands championshio too.

[Sulland]

Fiesta Mk2 is good on asphalt, not sure if they are top competitive on gravel yet.
has there been any updates on the gravel kit lately?

[mknight]

I am not so sure if it's generally good on tarmac.

It is good on slippery/wet tarmac on wet michelin tire (which is new itself).

Historically for last 15 years or so MSport cars have seemingly had very good (mechanical) grip, so this would fit right in. On dry tarmac engine power also matters and there it seems to lack a lot.

[pantealex]

When was last time when Skoda didn´t win anything BIG
(WRC2/3, ERC, ERCJ1)

I know they got many many national championships.

[Mirek]

When was last time when Skoda didn´t win anything BIG
(WRC2/3, ERC, ERCJ1)

I know they got many many national championships.

... and Czech championship...

I think Your answer is 2008 when Škoda Motorsport didn't yet exist.

[RS]

... and Czech championship...

I think Your answer is 2008 when Škoda Motorsport didn't yet exist.

i think they did?? i guess you mean in their current form..

[Sulland]

Any news on the Rally2 from Toyota since the beginning of October?
https://dirtfish.com/rally/toyota-set-expand-rally-car-line-up-into-rally2-and-rally3/

Have they started testing?

[Mirek]

i think they did?? i guess you mean in their current form..

The complete motorsport depatment was completely disbanded after 2005 season and recreated again probably in the second half of 2007 or so. But as a team they started competing only in 2009.

[pantealex]

Printsport got new PoloR5 last week :(

Chassis #85
https://www.ewrc-results.com/carinfo/122-volkswagen-polo-gti-r5/?car=5080

They also got very last #87 (for Kari Hämäläinen, 50y old Gentleman)

so they have 2 never used Polo R5´s

[dimviii]

Breen
https://youtu.be/ZIkaJuv1JQE

[dimviii]

Breen i20 r5 day 2
https://youtu.be/ve66_Fh5BU8

[Mirek]

Impressive! And very different than the current i20 (at least it looks like that to me).

[mknight]

It looks like a car and not like a (mountain) goat - narrow with tiny long legs

[dimviii]

what differences in dimensions have the chassis compared to previous? do we know?

[Jarek Z]

It looks better in the sunlight, but it is still the ugliest R5 ever built.

[Mirek]

For you, Jarek. For me it's not ugly, especially after I could check it live (the stock one, not the R5).

[Jarek Z]

Do you like this big black hole at the front? :)

[Ucci]

It looks better in the sunlight, but it is still the ugliest R5 ever built.
O no, C3 is still the ugliest....

[mknight]

O no, C3 is still the ugliest....
Yep, no contest there.

[Sulland]

Breen i20 r5 day 2
https://youtu.be/ve66_Fh5BU8

The car looks very stable and calm, almost like the Polo.
Does it have longer wheelbase than the R5?

[dimviii]

The car, which will be renamed the C3 Rally2 in line with rallying’s new pyramid, will boast new engine software designed to improve getaway from stage starts. This will be homologated early in January.

Further upgrades in the first quarter of the year include a new front apron with revised aerodynamics, a new front differential rail providing a wider range of settings and an adjustable brake distribution pedal offering drivers greater comfort.

Other improvements include new engine brackets, rear toe brackets and exhaust manifolds to increase their service life.

The upgrades follow work in the last couple of seasons on suspension set-up in both asphalt and gravel trim and a new rear sub-frame to improve stability under braking.

Mads Østberg steered the C3 to the WRC world title at ACI Rally Monza last weekend while Marco Bulacia finished second in the WRC 3 standings.

Citroën’s aim is to improve the car in terms of performance, running costs and driveability and C3 Rally2 technical director Jean-François Grandclaudon said the process was focused on evolution.

“There is no need for a revolution on the C3 Rally2 in 2021. We are going to build on the excellent foundation we have, which is both robust and quick, to try and improve it where we can.

“Since its introduction in 2017, we have worked constantly and racked up a lot of miles on the road, enabling us to offer our customers an increasingly fast car, suited to all types of driver and with controlled running costs.

“This season, even more work was done with our two development drivers, Mads Østberg on gravel and Yoann Bonato on Tarmac. Over the last two years, the car has changed a lot, especially with a number of components that have not needed homologation and our efforts have now paid off with national and world titles claimed this year in major championships.”

Østberg has not yet finalised his 2021 plans but admitted that continuing with Citroën was an attractive option.

“Of course, the goal has to be to make it back to a factory World Rally Car. But at the same time, staying with Citroën is definitely something interesting for me,” said the Norwegian.

“It would be nice to have the chance to finish this job and compete in a car which I have developed. And it would be nice to have a car that is suiting me perfectly and the best car I’ve had so far.

“It’s been a challenge to make this car over the last two years, but I feel we have really come a long way. When I started out, it was not an easy car to drive and now I think we have really one of the best R5 cars out there.”
https://www.wrc.com/images/redaktion/Season-2020-NEWS/WRC-2/12_December/111220_Citroen-C3R2_2021_002_5acc5_f_1400x788.jpg

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/season-2020/wrc-2/citro--n-c3-rally2--first-pictures/

[Jarek Z]

O no, C3 is still the ugliest....

Is it still ugly? ;)
https://www.fiaerc.com/the-best-just-got-better-citroen-renames-and-upgrades-its-erc-winner/

[Sulland]

News on C3 Rally2 from Citroen as well.
https://media.citroenracing.com/en/c3-r5-becomes-c3-rally2-new-visual-identity-and-package-upgrades?fbclid=IwAR3QESFlRQTAhcjkCegXr4e75hzr2P8h 7HTKPSz1qwMhMY2dCb4XnFGeRaU#prettyPhoto

[Andre Oliveira]

Can someone rename the theread to Rally2?

[Ucci]

Is it still ugly? ;)
https://www.fiaerc.com/the-best-just-got-better-citroen-renames-and-upgrades-its-erc-winner/

Yes, the front part is still "desperate".....

[dimviii]

Is it still ugly? ;)
https://www.fiaerc.com/the-best-just-got-better-citroen-renames-and-upgrades-its-erc-winner/

for me its not ugly.Ok at front i could discuss it.
For me the pretiest is polo.

[Sulland]

The C3 is for some ugly. The more important issue is that the very steep and high front part, does that it does not have much natural downforce. And the R2 regulations does not allow much change to the original shape.

[TheFlyingTuga]

The "problem" with the Hyundai could be easily corrected if they find a way to keep the logo on the same place as the road car. I don't know if they couldn't find a solution to fix it there, or they didn't care enough!
https://ibb.co/3rxxDMd
However, as long as it is fast, it will look good on the stage. Only the Fiesta can do both 😎

[dimviii]

Βreen day 3
https://youtu.be/0K9MTDsKAUE

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The C3 is for some ugly. The more important issue is that the very steep and high front part, does that it does not have much natural downforce. And the R2 regulations does not allow much change to the original shape.

Spot on. The car was never the 'right' shape to make a sporty machine.

[Jarek Z]

Spot on. The car was never the 'right' shape to make a sporty machine.

That's true, but... they won 7 titles this year! :)
https://twitter.com/CitroenRacing/status/1336308954192867330?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1336308954192867330%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpl.motorsport.com%2Fwrc%2Fne ws%2Fszczesliwa-siodemka-citroena%2F4924785%2F

[marcosg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUjnbrnWwM8&ab_channel=MaxiPixelRallye

Breen

[Sulland]

Petter has sold his newest Polo to Dennis Rådstrøm.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/carinfo/122-volkswagen-polo-gti-r5/?car=4453

So I guess an i20 is taking its place soon!

[rp]

Petter has sold his newest Polo to Thomas Rådstrøm.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/carinfo/122-volkswagen-polo-gti-r5/?car=4453

So I guess an i20 is taking its place soon!

You mean Dennis and his father is Arne...

[br21]

New, quite big upgrade of Fabia evo will be homologated from 1.01.21, similar was probably planned for Polo but most likely won't happen.

[Sulland]

New, quite big upgrade of Fabia evo will be homologated from 1.01.21, similar was probably planned for Polo but most likely won't happen.

To bad, quite like the polo.

[Andre Oliveira]

It seems the upgrade is tested, only need VW homologation on FIA. Not clear that that will happen.

[the sniper]

It seems the upgrade is tested, only need VW homologation on FIA. Not clear that that will happen.

Seems like a further insult to customers if they don't... ridiculous.

[Sulland]

How much work is it to get a joker approved?
Are we talking weeks or months of paperwork?

What is the process for an OEM to get this done, please educate us you here that have been part of processes like this before!

[br21]

It's not only paperwork and homologation. You need to make, stock and sell those upgraded parts.

[Andre Oliveira]

So, 4 cars to France (Quentin Gilbert, Stéphane Consani and 2 more) with TM Competition.

https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/132656295_3766363116759150_3133594415331431332_o.j pg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=2&_nc_sid=e3f864&_nc_ohc=a-Qt7qIU2GcAX-kfTCu&_nc_ht=scontent-bru2-1.xx&oh=2bb6085cf2b7592cd90615b066975d7d&oe=60067922


And one to Sweden, Mattias Adielsson who will defend the crown of Ford Fiesta Rally2 in SM against the champion Per Gunnar Andersson in same car in 2021.

https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/132442983_10158660044702254_7782192144582793718_n. jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=BStnbw8DE5cAX94vngI&_nc_ht=scontent-bru2-1.xx&oh=8b3364b82d398109fb44516edfff6773&oe=6007F7EA

[mknight]

Detailed press release of the Fabia upgrades:
https://www.ewrc.cz/clanek/35630-skoda-fabia-rally2-evo-dostala-paket-vylepseni/

(right click to translate)

[PLuto]

No need to use translator when you can read original text in english - https://cdn.skoda-storyboard.com/2020/12/201221_SkodaFabiaRally2evo-EN.pdf

[RS]

Mikelssen confirmed Skoda will develop a new Rally2 car for 2022 and he will be one of the test drivers.

[Mirek]

Mikelssen confirmed Skoda will develop a new Rally2 car for 2022 and he will be one of the test drivers.

Not will, I think that the work has been underway for quite a time already ;)

But for sure we won't see the car until the stock one is presented...

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Mikelssen confirmed Skoda will develop a new Rally2 car for 2022 and he will be one of the test drivers.The new Fabia or Scala..??

Sent from my Redmi 6 using Tapatalk

[Mirek]

Fabia IV

[Sulland]

It's not only paperwork and homologation. You need to make, stock and sell those upgraded parts.

Yes, but stock and sell could be done by the few remaining thst is supposed to do it for normal spares. Or could be outsourced, or done by Skoda.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fabia upgrades are for speed and reliability...

https://www.fiaerc.com/skoda-hopes-upgrades-mean-erc-event-winning-fabia-is-faster-and-more-reliable/

[Mirek]

Sorry, but that is quite obvious. For what else they should be?

[Andre Oliveira]

Style?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

TBH I didnt think the Škoda had reliability as a weakness after all this time.

[Mirek]

TBH I didnt think the Škoda had reliability as a weakness after all this time.

As much as you need to adress your weaknesses you need to develop your strong properties becuase those are what brought you where you are. Moreover everything is connected in one system. The fact things worked reliably before doesn't mean they would continue to work same way after you change half of the system.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

As much as you need to adress your weaknesses you need to develop your strong properties becuase those are what brought you where you are. Moreover everything is connected in one system. The fact things worked reliably before doesn't mean they would continue to work same way after you change half of the system.

A stronger rear axle, better rear brake cooling and better engine lubrication are all one connected system ?

[dimviii]

TBH I didnt think the Škoda had reliability as a weakness after all this time.

better reliability doesnt mean that was a weak car.
better reliability maybe means longer service intervals,or longer life of some parts

[Mirek]

A stronger rear axle, better rear brake cooling and better engine lubrication are all one connected system ?

Yes, of course. The car is the system.

You might not believe but one of the biggest contributors to reliability issues is vibrations and resonances. Those could be especially tricky because basically everything in the car (including the crew weight) has an impact on them and whatever you change might surpise you in the long term. Even with the most modern simulations the only way to avoid issues with them is testing, testing and another testing.

Also as dimviii said, better reliability could mean also longer service intervals. Everyone wants his parts to last longer, that applies especially for the private customers.

[Andre Oliveira]

David Salanon bought Citroën C3 Rally2 ex Crugnola to contest national and 2nd division rallies in France. Will do some rallies and test with TM Competition with M-Sport Ford Fiesta Rally2 too.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErN4VgTXIAAIBJ1?format=jpg&name=large

[Jarek Z]

List of upgrades in Citroen C3 Rally2:
https://www.fiaerc.com/camilli-takes-revamped-erc-bound-citroen-c3-rally2-for-a-spin/

[dimviii]

Running in conditions which varied from dry asphalt through rain, snow and ice, Breen found the car an improvement across the board on its predecessor, the i20 R5.

“The feeling is very, very good from the car,” said Breen. “It’s predictable and consistent when it comes to the roll centre and the transition of grip and weight in the corner. Being a new car, there’s been the freedom to work on the geometry and that’s made a difference.
https://www.wrc.com/en/news/season-2020/wrc-2/breen-praises-i20n-developments/

[Sulland]

It seems the upgrade is tested, only need VW homologation on FIA. Not clear that that will happen.

Any more info from VAG on this one?
Will someone halp the existing customers, or will nothing happen?

[Sulland]

https://www.facebook.com/100013442557842/posts/1107400966384645/?d=n

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En_cXFIXEAEKqg4?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En_cXFEWMAEDsVV?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En_cXFJXUAI-s-6?format=jpg&name=medium

Hopefully they get on with testing again after Monte.
If I was Adamo I would have shipped one of the new Rally2 i20s, along with a trailer of spares and a tech or two to "The Solbergs" for a Hackathon in Sweden. Let them play with it for a month!
They are good testers and will give very good feedback to the Rally2 team in Germany!

[mknight]

I wonder how much of an improvement you really can get in R5s lately.

Sure todays R5s are something else than first Fiesta R5 all those years ago. But when looking at the very top of the cars that are known to work well there doesn't seem to be much difference.

When Polo came it seemed like a bit of a step up for a moment, but then within 4-6 months over multiple rallies it somehow looked equal to Fabia (Evo) again. Similar with C3 that started good on tarmac and terrible on gravel and now it looks somehow similar to Fabia and Polo. (I purposely avoid I20 which seems to do very well a few times and then terrible next...)

Is it that everyone is closing up to the limit of regulations?

[Mirek]

No but the regulations restrain everyone from bringing groundbraking ideas and also restrain them to bring few larger improvements because the number of jokers is very small. Therefore the development of all cars is mostly about details which make them better but not that much to crush the others.

By the way Mikkelsen may have driven the new ultimate spec Fabia in Monte Carlo (next step is switch to Fabia III).

[Mirek]

According to Mr. Hrabánek Škoda sold already around 370 R5/Rally2 Fabias. He said he would be happy to reach 400 till the end of year.

[RS]

By the way Mikkelsen may have driven the new ultimate spec Fabia in Monte Carlo (next step is switch to Fabia III).

in his Monte vlog, he said at the pre-evemt test it was his first run in the ‘2021 car’

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent.fopo2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/146558028_4232437970118931_9088138444813910437_o.j pg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=2&_nc_sid=ca434c&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=8w7vUHwNOGEAX-eN_D7&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo2-2.fna&tp=14&oh=098a8c4b269b6b0200f27da19a338176&oe=603EFB00

[Jarek Z]

Have you heard that there is some guy in France who built a prototype Toyota Yaris Rally2 Kit?
https://rallyandrace.pl/toyota-yaris-w-wersji-rally2-zbudowal-ja-w-garazu-kierowca-rajdowy/?fbclid=IwAR3_EPHS02Yi9iqp9X_r9SNjmFOJKyBmQPq2hMOK FqR53PavDJPDZwpBLCk

[Mirek]

It's not a prototype. Everybody can build and homologate Rally2 Kit/R4.

[pantealex]

Have you heard that there is some guy in France who built a prototype Toyota Yaris Rally2 Kit?
https://rallyandrace.pl/toyota-yaris-w-wersji-rally2-zbudowal-ja-w-garazu-kierowca-rajdowy/?fbclid=IwAR3_EPHS02Yi9iqp9X_r9SNjmFOJKyBmQPq2hMOK FqR53PavDJPDZwpBLCk

This belongs to "R4 news and results" discussion.

[Sulland]

I wonder how much of an improvement you really can get in R5s lately.

Sure todays R5s are something else than first Fiesta R5 all those years ago. But when looking at the very top of the cars that are known to work well there doesn't seem to be much difference.

When Polo came it seemed like a bit of a step up for a moment, but then within 4-6 months over multiple rallies it somehow looked equal to Fabia (Evo) again. Similar with C3 that started good on tarmac and terrible on gravel and now it looks somehow similar to Fabia and Polo. (I purposely avoid I20 which seems to do very well a few times and then terrible next...)

Is it that everyone is closing up to the limit of regulations?

This is an interresting question.
If you have a R5 from Ford, Skoda, VW or Hyundai that has gotten all upgrades along the way.
How much slower are they than a new Rally2 car woth all their bells and whistles?

My impression is that a top notch driver can still do well in a well maintained Fiesta or Fabia from 2013/14 with all jokers onboard.
Maybe not in WRC, but at least in national/regional series and maybe also in ERC.

That is the best evidence of success of the formula of the R5/Rally2 cars.
Rally3 follows in the same path, and will hopefully be as successful when we look back in 8-10 years.

[RS]

This belongs to "R4 news and results" discussion.

But it’s called Rally2 Kit?

[Mirek]

But it’s called Rally2 Kit?

That's just a new R4 name under the new system.

[dupanton]

Because R4 would be too confusing with Rally4, which now has the R2 and R3 cars. It's a mess...

[pantealex]

Because R4 would be too confusing with Rally4, which now has the R2 and R3 cars. It's a mess...

Rally4 doesn´t have R3(T) cars.

RC4 has R2(T), R3(T) and Rally4 cars

[the sniper]

This belongs to "R4 news and results" discussion.

You were the one telling us to use the new official FIA class names, no? :p

[RS]

That's just a new R4 name under the new system.

So it is a 4 wheel drive car to compete in Rally2 class or what?

[Mirek]

So it is a 4 wheel drive car to compete in Rally2 class or what?

R4 and R5 were booth in RC2 too. Nothing changed, just the name.

[Andre Oliveira]

Rally1 cars -> WRC spec -> RC1 category
Rally2 cars -> R5 spec -> RC2 category
Rally2-Kit cars -> R4 spec -> RC2 category
Rally3 cars -> New 4WD spec -> RC3 category
Rally4 cars -> R2 spec -> RC4 category
Rally5 cars -> R1 spec -> RC5 category

[RS]

R4 and R5 were booth in RC2 too. Nothing changed, just the name.

Then perhaps someone should rename the R4 topic as ‘Rally2 Kit’

[pantealex]

You were the one telling us to use the new official FIA class names, no? :p

Yes and still am, but that´s name of discussion, should be "Rally2+Kit news and results" ;)

[RS]

New Fabia road car is coming in the spring. Hopefully we’ll see a concept Rally2 car soon after and the first public tests..

https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/press-releases/skoda-offers-first-glimpse-of-the-new-fabia/

The new car is likely to be prettier than the current Fabia but also wider so it may lose that chunky chiselled look of the current R5 car that i rather like.

[Mirek]

The car general appearance (size, proportions) is similar to current Polo.

[RS]

The car general appearance (size, proportions) is similar to current Polo.

Exactly..

[ictus]

New Fabia road car is coming in the spring. Hopefully we’ll see a concept Rally2 car soon after and the first public tests..
I wouldn't count on it this year, especially they when they just updated the current car

[RS]

I wouldn't count on it this year, especially they when they just updated the current car

Maybe not homologation but testing I think yes. Mikkelsen already said he would be involved in testing the new car.

[Mirek]

I wouldn't count on it this year, especially they when they just updated the current car

AFAIK they used all remaining jokers, i.e. they don't count with any further substancial updates for the existing car. That means the new car is not far away.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No hybrid/electric version is a surprise.

More info & pics on test: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-2021-skoda-fabia-receive-substantial-design-overhaul

[pantealex]

No hybrid/electric version is a surprise.

More info & pics on test: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-2021-skoda-fabia-receive-substantial-design-overhaul

No hybrid is no surprise, it´s same car than Ibiza/Polo.

[Kenneth]

Funny that rally2 version will probably have hybrid sooner than road version.

[pantealex]

Funny that rally2 version will probably have hybrid sooner than road version.

Close battle !

It would be very stupid move to change Rally2 rules.

[Kenneth]

I think it was already confirmed that Rally2 will go hybrid in 2023, but afaik it will keep current rules but only add mild hybrid enginem, that is expected to add 10 horsepower.

[Sulland]

The mild hybrid is more a politics issue from FIA than a big engineering change, that will change the Rally2 class.

[Sulland]

In Finland it looks like the Polo is the best RC2 car to have.
Why could that be?

[AnttiL]

In Finland it looks like the Polo is the best RC2 car to have.
Why could that be?

Maybe it’s good for very fast stages? Solberg also won Estonia last year

[Mirek]

Could be also Printsport know-how.

[PLuto]

Maybe it’s good for very fast stages? Solberg also won Estonia last year

Yes, Polo is good for very fast stages.

[Mirek]

No hybrid/electric version is a surprise.

More info & pics on test: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-2021-skoda-fabia-receive-substantial-design-overhaul

Now we know the dimensions and I wonder how that will affect the R5 because the car is really big.

Length +111 mm
Width +48 mm
Wheelbase +94 mm
Height -8 mm

[Sulland]

Love the Quattro wastegate whistle sound of the Polos is nice.

Are Polo and Fabia using same engine block?

[Mirek]

Are Polo and Fabia using same engine block?

I'm quite sure they do.

[RS]

Now we know the dimensions and I wonder how that will affect the R5 because the car is really big.

Length +111 mm
Width +48 mm
Wheelbase +94 mm
Height -8 mm

.. and bigger than Polo.

[RS]

Love the Quattro wastegate whistle sound of the Polos is nice.

Are Polo and Fabia using same engine block?

i’m sure it was said that the engines were largely the same, but they sound quite different so I suppose they have different ancillaries such as wastegate, exhaust system.

[RS]

Now we know the dimensions and I wonder how that will affect the R5 because the car is really big.

Length +111 mm
Width +48 mm
Wheelbase +94 mm
Height -8 mm

It’s huge, a Golf is only 9mm wider!

Do you forsee any particular problem?

[Mirek]

Just a pure theory from my side :)

Generally with no central differential the longer wheelbase is a disadvantage for very tight corners. It's on the other hand an advantage in very fast corners.

Usually size is an issue in regards to the weight but I read that the bodyshell isn't heavier than that of Fabia II despite being larger mainly because of the ligter platform.

Regarding the width it's difficult to judge. Generally wider stock bodyshell usually brings wider frontal area which is a disadvantage for drag but the Fabia III stock bodyshell has much better drag coefficient and it's slightly lower so it's difficult to judge what will it do witht all those added R5 body panels. Larger width is for sure very good thing for passive safety because the crew can be located farther from the door.

Slightly smaller height and a larger bodyshell will probably help to bring the center of gravity a little bit down and the overal vehicle balance could be likely slightly better tuned (there are more options for more ideal placing of stuff in a larger car). Larger bodyshell can be also an advantage for easier serviceability and repairs (it's easier to place the stuff in an accessible way).

[RS]

I wondered whether longer wheelbase is what gave the Polo a clear advantage on Arctic. also the Polo runs quite low ride height everywhere compared to current Fabia.

Regarding width/aero, the new Fabia is so wide (wider than Polo) that I don’t imagine there will be many extra body panels protruding as per current Fabia (which is a pity aesthetically speaking)

[Jarek Z]

There is a new special edition of ŠKODA FABIA Rally2 evo. Hurry up if you want to buy one - there are only 12 units available! :)
https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/press-releases/120-years-in-racing-skoda-motorsport-celebrates-with-limited-skoda-fabia-rally2-evo-edition-120/

[Andre Oliveira]

New bonnet to Ford Fiesta Rally2

Pic of Axel Köck

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExG3dBMWQAMJCSL?format=jpg&name=medium

[ictus]

so basically the same as in rally4 and rally3

[Mirek]

Vlček (boss of Kowax team) said that they should have the first new i20 Rally2 in June. I guess Huttunen will drive it first.

[Alpine-110]

Did Henning buy polo r5 yet?

[Sulland]

What do we think of the speed on the C3 Rally2 compared to the VAG cars, Is it a match?

[dupanton]

Depends on the terrain I guess, but difference will be small. I think it even has the edge on (French) tarmac

[Mirek]

Now we have a better idea about the new Rally2...
https://img.auto.cz/foto/v0/Zml0LWluLzEwNTB4OTk5OS9maWx0ZXJzOnF1YWxpdHkoODUpOm 5vX3Vwc2NhbGUoKS9pbWc/6969540.jpg?st=42-IR1zDAbccWBagKwoSRtWVpOYZITEhJAgXuurIvb4&e=2145916800
https://img.auto.cz/foto/v0/Zml0LWluLzEwNTB4OTk5OS9maWx0ZXJzOnF1YWxpdHkoODUpOm 5vX3Vwc2NhbGUoKS9pbWc/6969538.jpg?st=XxHvu86xVma58qK1r9xDRbwzIiZf8iqJOqO xIaWbJZU&e=2145916800
https://img.auto.cz/foto/v0/Zml0LWluLzEwNTB4OTk5OS9maWx0ZXJzOnF1YWxpdHkoODUpOm 5vX3Vwc2NhbGUoKS9pbWc/6969542.jpg?st=Ilv9OHvn9nv5IkJrezaIuneQSpYJBMmwpFM-GN0x94g&e=2145916800

[Sulland]

Are the new Fabia similar in measurements as newest Polo?

[Mirek]

Fabia is larger.

[dimviii]

in terms of overall length or wheelbase?

[Mirek]

in terms of overall length or wheelbase?

In everything. Wheelbase, length, width and height.

[HKSjbg]

And to think, a few years ago there was quite a split in opinion whether B-segment cars were too small for top-level (i.e. what we now know as Rally1 and Rally2) rally cars. This new Fabia, as well as other current rally cars are pretty perfect proportions to me.

[Mirek]

It's funy but this Fabia is only slightly shorter and much wider than Focus Mk.1. Cars keep growing...

[Steve Boyd]

Cars keep growing...

Tell me about it!
My current model Fiesta only just fits in my garage. There was plenty of room for my Mk4 Cortina 40 years ago! Don't forget there was the Escort between the size of the Cortina and the size of the Fiesta in those days.

[pantealex]

It's funy but this Fabia is only slightly shorter and much wider than Focus Mk.1. Cars keep growing...

New Fabia is almost same size as 1st modern Octavia which was bigger than Golf...

[Mirek]

New Fabia is almost same size as 1st modern Octavia which was bigger than Golf...

No, it's not. Octavia I was nearly half a meter longer.

[pantealex]

No, it's not. Octavia I was nearly half a meter longer.

Wheelbase of new Fabia is longer than Octavia had...

[lmmjvss]

what was the last time a "factory team" won the erc? (I mean... is it really allowed to run a factory car in rally2/r5 in erc?) Cuz I just started to follow it and it seems to me that the winner is just a privateer in almost all the occasions.

[focus206]

Works Skoda team won the title in 2012 (Hanninen), 2013 (Kopecky) and 2014 (Lappi).
Before them, works FIAT Abarth team won it in 2009 (Basso) and 2010 (Rossetti).
But actual works team are rather rare in ERC, national works teams like Skoda Hungary or Citroen Spain are more common.

[Jarek Z]

Like others have said it's quite rare for works teams to compete in ERC, but such situations did happen several times. An interesting example was Bruno Thiry, who was competeing in ERC 2000 with works Citroen Xsara Kit Car, but... lost the championship to Henrik Lundgaard from Toyota Team Denmark! :)

Photo of Thiry's car:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/315442/

[Ucci]

Photo of Thiry's car:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/315442/

What a space shuttle....

[Jarek Z]

Kit cars were great, weren't they? :)
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2000/ostatni/ypres/F1000024.jpg

[mknight]

Any update on the new I20 Rally2 homologation/first start?

Saw that Adamo's target in March was 1. July.

[pantealex]

Any update on the new I20 Rally2 homologation/first start?

Saw that Adamo's target in March was 1. July.

For WRC target is/was Rally Estonia, maybe some smaller Rally before that ?

[br21]

Any update on the new I20 Rally2 homologation/first start?

Saw that Adamo's target in March was 1. July.

it's postponed month or two

[mknight]

As br21 surely knows that's a bit of a blow to any WRC2 title challenge from Solberg/Huttunen cause in Estonia that combination with new car would be really strong.

But as far as I understand Rally2/R5 is hard to change much after homologation so it's much better to get it right as it should be sold for a few years rather than getting it out a month or so earlier.

[Alpine-110]

What is difference between tires for rally1 and rally2?

[mknight]

Mikkelsen supposedly should have had a test in CZ this weekend that got cancelled.

Possibly first test of some test mule for the new Fabia or too early?

Basing this on these points:
- testing in CZ where you can only really test tarmac well and there is no tarmac rally soon
- Skoda Motorsport is based in CZ and any first tests of the new car will surely happen there
- test got cancelled seemingly just a few days before, could be million reasons but when building a new car it's more likely issues happen

[Co-driven]

Mikkelsen supposedly should have had a test in CZ this weekend that got cancelled.

Possibly first test of some test mule for the new Fabia or too early?

Basing this on these points:
- testing in CZ where you can only really test tarmac well and there is no tarmac rally soon
- Skoda Motorsport is based in CZ and any first tests of the new car will surely happen there
- test got cancelled seemingly just a few days before, could be million reasons but when building a new car it's more likely issues happen

A few days ago der Ohanessian (Bulacia's co-driver) said that they would be going to CZ to test with Skoda. And they would also be working a couple of days with the car in the workshop thinking about Safari Rally.

Since then, it was announced their withdraw from Safari and no news about the test.

[Mirek]

They do tests for gravel and even snow in Czechia too, just not many.

[mknight]

A few days ago der Ohanessian (Bulacia's co-driver) said that they would be going to CZ to test with Skoda. And they would also be working a couple of days with the car in the workshop thinking about Safari Rally.

Since then, it was announced their withdraw from Safari and no news about the test.

Sounds a bit more like the test was supposed to be with the current car then.

[Sulland]

If you take a quick guesstimate on the following:
How much quicker has a R5/Rally2 car become pr km ss, from the class came and till today?

[Mirek]

If you take a quick guesstimate on the following:
How much quicker has a R5/Rally2 car become pr km ss, from the class came and till today?

That is very difficult to say without doing a head-to-head test with one early and one current car, both on the same tyres, same track and in the same conditions and even when you do such test the result will apply only for that one particular track...

[Sulland]

That is very difficult to say without doing a head-to-head test with one early and one current car, both on the same tyres, same track and in the same conditions and even when you do such test the result will apply only for that one particular track...

The reason I am asking is to compare with what we can expect from the Rally3 class in the coming years.

So, if you should guess Mirek. Gain pr km SS.
a) 0-1 sec
b) 1-2 sec
c) 2-3 sec
d) 3-4 sec
e) More than 4 sec pr km ss?

[Mirek]

The reason I am asking is to compare with what we can expect from the Rally3 class in the coming years.

So, if you should guess Mirek. Gain pr km SS.
a) 0-1 sec
b) 1-2 sec
c) 2-3 sec
d) 3-4 sec
e) More than 4 sec pr km ss?

I can't say that because comparing results from 2013 and 2021 even on unchanged stages makes no sense because you can't tell how much progress is about tyres and how much about the car. Moreover I really don't remember what weather was on which stage 8 years ago.

[AnttiL]

Difficult to find matching stages

Fafe Portugal

2021 Lappi Polo 97.7 km/h
2015 Lappi Fabia 95.1 km/h

Gandesa Catalunya

2019 Loubet Fabia evo 96.0 km/h
2015 Chardonnet DS3 90.3 km/h

Leustu Finland

2019 Rovanperä Fabia evo 111.0 km/h (stage was 500 m longer, possibly making the stage a bit slower with one junction turn)
2014 Tänak Fiesta 109.1 km/h

Riudecanyes Catalunya

2019 Solans Polo 92.9 km/h (damp conditions?)
2014 Chardonnet DS3 94.1 km/h

[Mirek]

Difficult to find matching stages

Fafe Portugal

2021 Lappi Polo 97.7 km/h
2015 Lappi Fabia 95.1 km/h

Gandesa Catalunya

2019 Loubet Fabia evo 96.0 km/h
2015 Chardonnet DS3 90.3 km/h

Leustu Finland

2019 Rovanperä Fabia evo 111.0 km/h (stage was 500 m longer, possibly making the stage a bit slower with one junction turn)
2014 Tänak Fiesta 109.1 km/h

Riudecanyes Catalunya

2019 Solans Polo 92.9 km/h (damp conditions?)
2014 Chardonnet DS3 94.1 km/h

As I said, it tells little to nothing without knowing the tyre difference.

[Sulland]

Looking at the numbers you found, it seems like we can say that aprox 2 sec in average speed are not far from the development of R5 from 2013 and until today. It will wary from car to car, surface to surface, and driver to driver.


The main reason behind the question is to show the huge success the joker thinking and rules and regulations to go with that.
This is a very good way to keep development and cost down for the users.

With a 2013 Fiesta, that is updraded over the years, at least on loose surface can still fight for podiums.

This makes for a bright future for the new Rally3 class starting up in 2021, that follows the same pattern!

[RallyFan13]

What about new Hyundai N Rally 2?we know date about debut of the car ?

[mknight]

It was said 2 pages ago that it's 1-2 months delayed. That would mean earliest at the start of august.

I was checking homologation list for this year and found:

Polo - 3 jokers in march (prbly the upgrade that wasn't sure to come after VW disbanded motorsport)

C3 - 3 jokers also mostly in March ("Rally2" upgrade?)

Fabia - 2 jokers (January, was announced)

Fiesta and i20 nothing

Hyundai has a new car coming, but what about MSport? Are they giving up on Rally2 and focusing on R3 and below?

[Sulland]

Fiesta MkII has issues.
Drivers are testing and testing to get their Fiesta to work.
On gravel some are saying that MkI is faster, and give them better feedback and feels safer.

Looking at sales numbers on the MkIi, Msport need to do something, if not they will loose the important Rally2 market.

[Andre Oliveira]

New engine of Fiesta is out.

[Jarek Z]

What about new Hyundai N Rally 2?we know date about debut of the car ?

Yes. Hyundai i20 N Rally2 car will make its competitive debut at Ypres Rally in Belgium (13 - 15 August). More details below:
https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2021/wrc2/ypres-debut-for-hyundais-new-rally2-car/

[mknight]

That's basically only one rally later than originally planned and makes it possible to still have a very good chance of WRC2 title for Huttunen or Solberg (if he doesn't do more rounds in WRC).

Obviously this assumes it is fast, which it should be, reliability might be more critical with a new car. Polo was supposedly tested a lot yet it had the fuel tank, rear axle and also powersteering problems. Not to mention gearbox retirement on first rally.

Hyundai priority for sure is a very good car for the future, not so much the 2021 title, even though they clearly moved Hutunen/Solberg starts to later part of the year so they can use the new car.

[dupanton]

But with a few asphalt rounds still to come, I don't think Solberg and Huttunen will get anywhere near the title.

[mknight]

Hard to predict. They are not the fastest tarmac drivers but if the car is very good there aren't that many faster either.

Mikkelsen only has 2 rounds to go after Estonia until he is at 7.
Østberg is historically not very good on tarmac, even though he did very good in Croatia. Kind of similar with Suninen.

Fourmaux has tarmac as best surface, but that also means he is likely to drive some tarmac in WRC car instead.

Gryazin is fast on tarmac, but not exactly stable in getting to finish.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.facebook.com/114412923439370/posts/377929163754410/?d=n

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5zLEJvWUAkz6hz?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5zLEJuXoAIT1pV?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5zLEJtWYAUA0tE?format=jpg&name=large

[MartijnS]

Nice! Like the nose.

[Andre Oliveira]

Video: https://youtu.be/4RMdD_xwUgA

[dimviii]

Tidemand testing new fabia rally 2

https://www.facebook.com/153655078003908/videos/277767664123019/


and photos
https://www.ewrc-results.com/photo/72350-test-new-fabia-rally2-tidemand-meeke-kopecky-2021/

[the sniper]

Both of them look great at least, far better than I'd imagined, particularly the Skoda.

[Mirek]

There are more videos of the new Fabia.

Kopecký: https://www.facebook.com/VFT-video-153655078003908/videos/test-nová-škoda-fabia-rally2-jan-kopecký/324934749339992/?__so__=permalink&__rv__=related_videos

Meeke: https://www.facebook.com/VFT-video-153655078003908/videos/test-new-škoda-fabia-rally2-kris-meeke/340219964373502/?__so__=permalink&__rv__=related_videos

[mknight]

Both of them look great at least, far better than I'd imagined, particularly the Skoda.

Agree that the new Fabia looks better than feared.

Any preliminary homologation date? Guessing end of the year?

[dimviii]

There are more videos of the new Fabia.

Kopecký: https://www.facebook.com/VFT-video-153655078003908/videos/test-nová-škoda-fabia-rally2-jan-kopecký/324934749339992/?__so__=permalink&__rv__=related_videos

Meeke: https://www.facebook.com/VFT-video-153655078003908/videos/test-new-škoda-fabia-rally2-kris-meeke/340219964373502/?__so__=permalink&__rv__=related_videos

didnt expect that they would hire Meeke for testing.

[mknight]

didnt expect that they would hire Meeke for testing.

Meeke also tested (old) Fabia on tarmac last year cause Skoda wanted feedback.

I see no problem with using him as long as there are multiple others, the more feedback the better and a "commercial" car should suit as many drivers as possible

Citroen used Meeke and two inexperienced youngsters developing C3 WRC and according to Meeke didn't listen to him either.

[Mirek]

What baffles me is the sound. It sounds trully as a 3-cylinder but I'm quite sure it is 4-cylinder engine (the only VW three cylinder is 1.0 TSI Evo). The sound is simply weird.

[polo10]

What baffles me is the sound. It sounds trully as a 3-cylinder but I'm quite sure it is 4-cylinder engine (the only VW three cylinder is 1.0 TSI Evo). The sound is simply weird.
Any news regarding the homologation date?

[Sulland]

What baffles me is the sound. It sounds trully as a 3-cylinder but I'm quite sure it is 4-cylinder engine (the only VW three cylinder is 1.0 TSI Evo). The sound is simply weird.

agreed, same tone as a Rally4 car, but with more grunt and bang.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fiesta MkII has issues.
Drivers are testing and testing to get their Fiesta to work.
On gravel some are saying that MkI is faster, and give them better feedback and feels safer.



@AdrienFourmaux after Rally Estonia:

Once again, thank you M-Sport for giving me a flawless and competitive Fiesta Rally2.

[Mirek]

I know I'm biased but I really like it.
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2021/photos/test-nove-fabie-tidemand-meeke-kopecky_2021/jce_20.jpg

[dimviii]

also for me its much better than previous fabia

[TWRC]

I know I'm biased but I really like it.
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2021/photos/test-nove-fabie-tidemand-meeke-kopecky_2021/jce_20.jpg

Looks like they changed the intercooler and radiator arrangement (from vertical to horizontal), of course this can change during further development.

[RS]

Thoughts on new Fabia:

- I am pleasantly surprised how blistered the wheels arches are considering the width of the road car. Road car shape must just work to enable them to still do that.

- Engine doesn’t sound like a three cylinder to me but has a very raspy exhaust note, like Polo R5 or some older Citroen WRCars. I like the loud turbo ‘chirrups’ and bangs though!

- Rear wing is bigger

- Car retains the front suspension geometry of the current Fabia: https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/634869/

- It looks very well sorted already, especially in Kopecky’s hands who knows these roads well (is this the first public test?)

- Zero car for Barum with Meeke or Tidemand?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Solberg and the new Hyundai Rally2 i20N

https://youtu.be/ZlbBfW0iM5E

[Jarek Z]

I don't know what happened with their ERC programme, but at least Proton Iriz R5 continues to compete in Britain. Ollie Mellors and Max Freeman are going to return to the stages after their big crash at the Nicky Grist rally. They are going to enter an event called Three Shires Stages in September:

more details:
https://www.facebook.com/MellorsElliot/posts/4123756591077409

[Andre Oliveira]

Oliver Solberg

Pic of Stephen D.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8Tm0jiWUAE5cN6?format=jpg&name=large

[Jarek Z]

Here is the first ever Hyundai i20 Rally2, that gets in the hands of a private team - Czech and Polish team Kowax 2Brally is preparing Jari Huttunen's car in Ypres:

https://scontent.fktw1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/235800653_229400625853839_5324446764304766920_n.jp g?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-4&_nc_sid=973b4a&_nc_ohc=PsKCQF0UG3cAX-Guv_k&_nc_ht=scontent.fktw1-1.fna&oh=09fc89b782a89b3d8cab545764d9a011&oe=613B89E1

One more photo:
https://business.facebook.com/pg/2Brally/posts/?ref=page_internal

And one more:
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/2wBDpZW0/s6/jari-huttunen-mikko-lukka-hyun.jpg

[Jarek Z]

Greek driver Lambros Athanassoulas says that he is going to be the first private driver in the world to drive Hyundai i20 N Rally2 when he competes in this car in Acropolis Rally.

source:
http://www.athanassoulas.gr/4/36/

livery:
http://athanassoulas.gr/files/Livery_i20_N.png

[Mirek]

That was a pretty terrible debut for the new i20 N...

[Jarek Z]

That was a pretty terrible debut for the new i20 N...

...but their marketing department can say that they won WRC2 :D

[mknight]

Yep, terrible debut in terms of speed (only one very good stagetime) and reliability.

Best possible points for Huttunen though, making WRC2 title a possibility.

[Jarek Z]

...but their marketing department can say that they won WRC2 :D

I told you :)

"Jari Huttunen drove the car to an impressive debut victory in the FIA World Rally Championship 2 category on the Ypres Rally in Belgium" :D

source:
https://www.fiaerc.com/new-erc-bound-hyundai-yet-to-spread-its-wings/

[Jarek Z]

Huttunen didn't sound very optimistic during the post-event press conference in Ypres:

Questions to Jari Huttunen - Hyundai Motorsport N

Q
Jari, looking back to this week, how do you feel about this rally and your WRC2 win here?
JH
Not in every stage but in most stages I had some problems. I am so lucky that I am here.

Q
Your teammate experienced similar issues yesterday, were you able to affect any fixes or was it a case of muscling your way through?
JH
It is difficult to drive but the fault is not so big. It is a small fault. When you don’t have any oil in the system, it is hard to drive.

Q
It is a brand new event in the Championship this year, what have you made of the stages and the event itself?
JH
I like this rally, this kind of rally. It is really nice. I like the Spa element too.

Questions from the floor:

Jose Luis Abreu – Autosport Portugal (POR)

Q
Jari, how do you compare the new Hyundai Rally2 to the old Hyundai R5?
JH
I think it is a big step with everything working well. Particularly with the handling side. Now we are in the window. I think the gap is big.

source:
https://www.fia.com/news/wrc-t-neuville-was-important-both-championships

[Andre Oliveira]

Crugnola

Pic of Marco de Cecco

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9Kif66WUAgCAN0?format=jpg&name=large

[mknight]

Compare the pic with the one on start of this page. The grey instead of red area just above the radiator makes a huge difference for the looks.

[ictus]

Compare the pic with the one on start of this page. The grey instead of red area just above the radiator makes a huge difference for the looks.

hyundai marketing team must be reading this thread ;)