Rally2 (ex-R5) News

[Andre Oliveira]

All you can know about Fiesta R5 here: http://ewrc-results.com/cars.php?cid=47&title=Ford-Fiesta-R5

1 - PX62 AVJ
2 - PX13 ACF
3 - PX13 ATU -> SP 0302 -> 12-84391 -> SP 0302
4 - PX13 AUA -> SP 0301
5 - PX13 AUF -> 10R 0127
6 - PX13 ASU -> JM 2221
7 - PX13 ARZ
8 - PX13 AUC -> CA 0212 XB
9 - PX13 AUE
10- PX13 ASO
11- PX13 ATZ
12- PX13 ASV
13- PX13 ATK -> 02R 0061
14- PX13 ATF
15- PX13 AKU (mistake) -> PX13 AUK -> 14R 0244
16- PX13 ATV
17- PX13 AUH -> 5377 HVX
18- PX13 ATO -> SP 0344 (never used, to sell without seats)
19- PX13 ASZ -> BNK 346
20- PX13 ATN
21- PX13 ATY -> F10 WRT
22- LJ63 KEK
23- LJ63 KLV -> EAD 190
24- PX13 AUJ
25- LJ63 KSU
26- LJ63 KNN
27- LJ63 KJO -> DBJ 359
28- PY63 LWS -> PY13 LWS (mistake) -> PY63 LWS
29- PY63 LWK
30- PY63 LWD -> KF 81165
31- PY63 LWF -> SP 0379
32- PY63 LWJ -> BLN 505
33- PY63 LWV
34- TK 0455L
35- PY63 LWG -> W2 FF1
36- PY63 LWN
37- SP 0345
38- PY63 LWR -> SP 0343
39- TK 1403L
40- PY63 LWO -> B 200 CMS
41- PY63 LWP -> 5372 HVX
42- PY63 LWH -> EV 014 VJ
43- unknown plate (A-Style)
44- DC-647-JP
45- PY63 LWT
46- PY63 LWU
47- PY63 LZA (MTM srl, only used to test)
48- PY63 LZB -> CJ 13 MCT
49- unknown plate (C-Rally Poland)
50- PX63 LYX -> D3 UAE
51- PY63 LYZ -> W3 FF1
52- PY63 LYU
53- PY63 LYT
54- PY63 LYW
55- PY63 LYS (Fastfoward, never used)
56- PY63 LYR
57- PY63 LZE
58- PY63 LYP
59- PX14 HUZ
60- PX14 HUY
61- PX14 HVH
62- DF-600-KY
63- PY63 LZF
64- PY63 LZC
65- PX14 HVJ
66- PX14 HUP
67- PX14 HVG
68- Unknown plate and owner
69- PX14 HVD (Eamonn Boland, only used in German rally test)
70- PX14 HVK (Eamonn Boland, never used)
71- PX14 HVB -> SR 2777G
72- PX14 HVE (2C Competition, never used)
73- PX14 HUV (Alexander Alibekov, never used)
74- PX14 HVF (M-Sport, never used)
75- PX14 HUU
76- PX14 HVA (2C Competition, never used)
77- TK 8955L

PX14 HWY (Bernini, Italia) -> Chassis ???
TK 3143L (Rzeznik, Poland) -> Chassis ???

[Tom206wrc]

This week-end Philippe Greiffenberg runs the Rallye d'Autun in the PH Sport Citroën DS3 R5 to prepare the Mont-Blanc(held on 6th september) ;)

[br21]

Dynoproject dyno.
Max boost those cars are allowed is 1,5bar (controlled by FIA). And cars are almost reaching it, building around 1,45b boost.

[Mirek]

Fabia R5 again, new video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IQHoLxrMCE

[OldF]

I don't know dyno charts from current WRC, so can't compare. Curves are more or less similar to gp N, of course restrictor in R5 is smaller so car chokes a little.
It was hub dyno, as only to check in general how it looks, compare fuels, etc.


Dynoproject dyno.
Max boost those cars are allowed is 1,5bar (controlled by FIA). And cars are almost reaching it, building around 1,45b boost.

I assume that the spike on the torque curve for a R5 is not as sharp as for a N4. N4 having a bigger engine capacity and higher boost gives higher max torque which then decline faster (boost dropping) compared to the R5 torque curve i.e. the R5 keeps the torque closer to the peak torque on higher revs compared to a N4. Right? Both have same size of restrictor.

[br21]

I assume that the spike on the torque curve for a R5 is not as sharp as for a N4. N4 having a bigger engine capacity and higher boost gives higher max torque which then decline faster (boost dropping) compared to the R5 torque curve i.e. the R5 keeps the torque closer to the peak torque on higher revs compared to a N4. Right? Both have same size of restrictor.

R5 has 32mm restrictor.
Biggest problem in R5 cars is that FIA control pop-off valve which is purely mechanical and car manufacturers can't control them as they would like to. So they are forced to make a lot of strategies to limit boost just below pop-off activating level, so sometimes throttle is closing automatically a little bit, sometimes wastegate opens, etc.

[Mirek]

First before I start writing my impressions from Barum rally here are my thoughts about Fabia R5.

I prefer S2000 to spectate any day. The R5 is really quiet and even the anti-lag bubbling isn't heard from distance. It's huuuge difference if You wait at the flat out corner in the forest and hear the screaming S2000 in the rpm limiter or nothing until You see the car.

The car was running really soft setup. At first it appeared quite unbalanced and a bit unstable on brakes and acceleration. It looked better in later stages though. Suspension-wise the S2000 looked working better for me.

No matter how it looks it has a lot of torque. Kopecký took the city stage in a very flamboyant style and the car had no problems with very long drifts on dry asphalt.

No matter how it looks it's fast already. I measured times on several stages and I'm pretty sure Kopecký would win the rally if he was classified.

[stefanvv]

The R5 is really quiet and even the anti-lag bubbling isn't heard from distance.

"Fiesta" quiet, or....

[marcosg]

would he win it if he was competing against himself on the s2000? clearly agree with you about the screaming sound of s2000 cars and about the torque, specially against fiesta...

[marcosg]

"Fiesta" quiet, or....
similar i think... best engine sound is definitly peugeot's

[RS]

similar i think... best engine sound is definitly peugeot's

It's certainly the loudest, but on the other hand no anti-lag sounds.

The Fabia definitely seems super-torquey, long geared and changing up very early too.

[marcosg]

It's certainly the loudest, but on the other hand no anti-lag

and that ruins it all... really awkward off throttle.....

[stefanvv]

Yeah, 208 T16 anti-lag sounds quite unique with its.... lag.

[Mirek]

The sound of 208 T16 or DS3 R5 is OK for me. It's VERY loud, louder than S2000 cars and although it has no anti-lag sound it's still great to listen. For example today on Pindula I heard Magalhaes like 30 seconds before he came while with Kopecký it was some 20 seconds for quiet bubbling and only around 5 seconds for the engine itself. On the city stage in the crowd I didn't hear the Fabia R5 at all!

[RS]

and that ruins it all... really awkward off throttle.....

Yes, off throttle it is kind of silent. Gives the impression the throttle only has two positions (on and off)

[manthey]

few questions: 208t16 & ds3 are the only r5 cars without ALS system? which technical choice is behind? problems with heat's dissipation? thanks

[Mirek]

They really don't have ALS in any form? The issue with R5 regulations is that additional air intake directly into the exhaust is forbidden.

[manthey]

They really don't have ALS in any form? The issue with R5 regulations is that additional air intake directly into the exhaust is forbidden.

sorry for my fault
so R3,R4 & WRC have als

[stefanvv]

208 T16 has it's ALS "BANG", it just sound really awkward, it's like having a delay when the driver pushes the throttle.

[RS]

208 T16 has it's ALS "BANG", it just sound really awkward, it's like having a delay when the driver pushes the throttle.

Is this why it nods it head and bucks around like a mad dog on a lead too?

[stefanvv]

Is this why it nods it head and bucks around like a mad dog on a lead too?

:D, dunno what exactly this means but sounds funny. I have no idea for the car behaviour, I'm only commenting the sound.

[br21]

All current R5 cars have ALS, but their strategies are little bit different.

[RS]

Only one corner, and poor picture quality but quite interesting seeing the different performance out of this corner of the various cars. Fabia seems to have significantly more "spunk" out of that corner than the other R5s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg8OOHVuj0Y

[OldF]

R5 has 32mm restrictor.
Biggest problem in R5 cars is that FIA control pop-off valve which is purely mechanical and car manufacturers can't control them as they would like to. So they are forced to make a lot of strategies to limit boost just below pop-off activating level, so sometimes throttle is closing automatically a little bit, sometimes wastegate opens, etc.

The restrictor size of N4&R4 is of course 33 mm and not 32 mm as my old head suggested.

Is the waste gate controlled by a spring? If it is, the waste gate starts to leak before the boost reach 2,5 bar absolute.

At which revs is the torque 400 Nm and power 300 hp? Peugeot & Citroen says the torque is 400 Nm @ 2500 rpm and power 280 hp @ 6000 rpm. At least the revs must be above about 5270 rpm (for 300 hp) otherwise the torque would have to be higher than 400 Nm to achieve 300 hp.

[Mirek]

280 Hp is most likely bullshit value ;)

Also the torque peak is probably in reasonably higher rews. The turbo-pressure is too low for such characteristic with so small engine in my opinion.

[RS]

Ooo, undisguised 'real' photos of the new Fabia road car:

http://www.autoforum.cz/tmp/magazin/s5/Skoda_Fabia_2015_III_nova_provoz_dalsi_01_800_600. jpg

http://www.autoforum.cz/tmp/magazin/s5/Skoda_Fabia_2015_III_nova_provoz_dalsi_02_800_600. jpg

[nafpaktos]

280 Hp is most likely bullshit value ;)
Your estimation?

[Mirek]

BR21 already said Fiesta R5 has 300 Hp. No way Peugeot would have 20 Hp less.

[Sulland]

The sound of 208 T16 or DS3 R5 is OK for me. It's VERY loud, louder than S2000 cars and although it has no anti-lag sound it's still great to listen. For example today on Pindula I heard Magalhaes like 30 seconds before he came while with Kopecký it was some 20 seconds for quiet bubbling and only around 5 seconds for the engine itself. On the city stage in the crowd I didn't hear the Fabia R5 at all!

What is the db level allowed by FIA, or isnt it any limit?
Skoda need to put a louder exhaust system on the new R5, and problem solved.
Sound is a large factor for the fans, it should sound like a competition car!!

[OldF]

“For all cars used in Rallies and unless the limits imposed by the local authorities are lower, the noise level on the open road must not exceed 103 dB(A) for an engine rotation speed of 3500 rpm for petrol engines and 2500 rpm for diesel engines.”

http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/regulation/file/252%20%282014%29x.pdf

What the dB(A) is you can read more about here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-weighting

[OldF]

280 Hp is most likely bullshit value ;)

Also the torque peak is probably in reasonably higher rews. The turbo-pressure is too low for such characteristic with so small engine in my opinion.

You’re most probably correct with that. Maybe with a very small turbo the torque peak could be at 2500 Nm (not 400 Nm though) but the engine would choke on higher revs.

Nowadays you can’t rely on anything.

[Mirek]

“For all cars used in Rallies and unless the limits imposed by the local authorities are lower, the noise level on the open road must not exceed 103 dB(A) for an engine rotation speed of 3500 rpm for petrol engines and 2500 rpm for diesel engines.”

http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/regulation/file/252%20%282014%29x.pdf

What the dB(A) is you can read more about here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-weighting

3500 rpm for noise measurement is a bit funny for cars like S1600 or S2000 where I believe the idle rpm are around 2500 (maybe somebody can correct me if I'm wrong) :)

[stefanvv]

3500 rpm for noise measurement is a bit funny for cars like S1600 or S2000 where I believe the idle rpm are around 2500 (maybe somebody can correct me if I'm wrong) :)

Yeah, but I got the impression this is for normal traffic.

[RS]

Fabia on Barum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO680-9KImA

It sounds "nice", the antilag sounds are good. It just needs to be louder and rev more, but I guess this is not the most efficient way for a turbo engine, afterall energy lost as sound is lost energy..

[EightGear]

Mechanical problems for Pieter Tsjoen's 208 T16 in Omloop van Vlaanderen.

[stefanvv]

Mechanical problems for Pieter Tsjoen's 208 T16 in Omloop van Vlaanderen.

The thread is called "R5 News", this isn't new.

[tolis]

Skoda is testing the new Fabia R5 in Greece!
http://www.4troxoi.gr/default.php?pname=Article&cat_id=47&art_id=16662

[Mirek]

Finally we have the photos! Thanks :)

Reminds me Fabia WRC :)

http://www.4troxoi.gr/files/Image/0000300WRC/ALBA7795.JPG

[dimviii]

for sure better looking.

[Mirek]

Were You there Dimitris?

[makinen_fan]

Reminds me Fabia WRC :)


Exactly my thought! Especially from this angle
http://www.4troxoi.gr/files/Image/0000300WRC/ALBA7831.JPG

[RS]

http://www.4troxoi.gr/default.php?pname=Article&cat_id=47&art_id=16662

The car may have changed but the PR bullshit hasn't:

"It's too early to say whether the car will be any good, these are the first kilometres"

Kopecky: "We don't know what we are doing next year" e.t.c.

Although the engineer expressed concerns that the rules don't have a good balance between cost and maintenance. Ie. They can make the car cheaply but then it wears out quicker.

[Mirek]

Although the engineer expressed concerns that the rules don't have a good balance between cost and maintenance. Ie. They can make the car cheaply but then it wears out quicker.

That's exactly what br21 wrote on this forum some time a go ;)

[RS]

How strict is the cost price thing anyway?

I mean, wasn't there supposed to be a cap on S2000 too?

[dimviii]

Were You there Dimitris?

no it was impossible to be there.

[Mirek]

no it was impossible to be there.

Aha, pity.


How strict is the cost price thing anyway?

I mean, wasn't there supposed to be a cap on S2000 too?

Much more strict. The main thing is a big list of particular components where each one of them has it's price limit. Several may be over the limit but others must be cheaper so that the total sum doesn't get over.

[br21]

It's not only matter of pure price limit for complete car or parts. It's the fact that you need to change some parts way more often than in WRC or S2000. When buying, those parts are cheaper comparing to S2000 ones for example, but you need to but 3 of those for i.e. 1000km and in S2000 you needed 1 for 1000km. Also many components in WRC/S2000 were design to be rebuildable, in R5 they are not, as their origin is in stock parts...
But honestly I have to say that when you get some knowledge about the car, way of running it, etc it's in fact better, more reliable than I was thinking at the beginning... of course it's about Fiesta, not 208...

[Mirek]

It's not only matter of pure price limit for complete car or parts. It's the fact that you need to change some parts way more often than in WRC or S2000. When buying, those parts are cheaper comparing to S2000 ones for example, but you need to but 3 of those for i.e. 1000km and in S2000 you needed 1 for 1000km. Also many components in WRC/S2000 were design to be rebuildable, in R5 they are not, as their origin is in stock parts...
But honestly I have to say that when you get some knowledge about the car, way of running it, etc it's in fact better, more reliable than I was thinking at the beginning... of course it's about Fiesta, not 208...

Yes, of course You are right and I even mentioned Your experience in post 2043 ( ;) ) but the discussion regarding the limits was from a different point of view - that it's very difficult for the manufacturer to get in the limits.

[Filip]

For comparison:
http://www.ianhardy.net/gallery/main.php/d/41395-2/north_humberside_rally_2005_0344.jpg

[PLuto]

I think that stripes on new car are more aggressive :)

[EightGear]

Abbring's 208 test.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5LPoeEURlAk&feature=youtu.be

Judging by the amount of tyre marks, it seems the 208 didn't break down after 10 KMs for once.

[RS]

Abbring's 208 test.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5LPoeEURlAk&feature=youtu.be

Judging by the amount of tyre marks, it seems the 208 didn't break down after 10 KMs for once.

Well there is one talent the 208 does have - that it's entertaining. I prefer this to a Fiesta WRC any day of the week.

[Mirek]

Abbring's 208 test.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5LPoeEURlAk&feature=youtu.be

Judging by the amount of tyre marks, it seems the 208 didn't break down after 10 KMs for once.

Is that the homologated car or the rumored non-homologated reliable development model which they try to homologate against the rules?

Besides that I agree with RS. 208 T16 is very spectacular car!

[EightGear]

Is that the homologated car or the rumored non-homologated reliable development model which they try to homologate against the rules?


Can you maybe tell more about that?

[Mirek]

There were rumors that they prepared a reliable car but that one is not according to the existing homologation and since the rules for R5 don't allow major changes in several years they need a complete new homologation. However I think that under existing rules it's not possible to have two different homologations of the same model of car (208) in the same class. Maybe it's only rumors, I don't know.

[makinen_fan]

It's a pitty that there is no way for a new homologation for reliability purposes.

@Mirek: do you know what is changed for it to be more reliable? Completely new engine? (since you mentioned before that the problem was traced to the engine block design)

[Mirek]

As I said it's just rumors I heard, I know nothing. Maybe it's all bullshit.

[A FONDO]

It's a pitty that there is no way for a new homologation for reliability purposes.
What means "reliability purposes"? There is a joker or two for "safety" purposes like fuel pipe connector but if you totally screwed it from the basics it's only your problem, you have to accept it and leave with dignity. Though I am worried FIA is so corrupt that some backdoor will be employed for PSA.

[Mirek]

Nope, in fact this situation shows that the rules are wrong. The intention was to save money of privateers who would be forced to buy updates too often. The problem is that as a result of these rules nobody wins and everybody looses. Peugeot looses because it has no results and no business but privateers loose too because they have no cars or at worse spent big money for useless cars without much hope for getting them better. The biggest looser is the sport which looses competitors especially if this situation leads to the end of rally program in Peugeot.

[A FONDO]

I know what the official intention was. The best way to save money of privateers is by loosening the homologation restrictions like it is in South America and other local regions who do not worship FIA's moves for "improving the sport". Here every nut and bolt is homologated and a few companies are total monopolists on the market so I am not sorry when one of them f***s it himself. The biggest losers are the people who paid for 208 in advance but this is life, like the people who "buy" apartments before the first truck enters the construction site - you got burned and that's it. The sport is fine because there is a Fiesta - a same one for everybody, and Fabia from next year.

[RS]

I know the intention is good, but I hate 'development freezes' in motorsport, isn't that partly what the sport is all about from a manufacturers point of view? What do the engineers do for the 6 years between new cars :rolleyes:

I think they should allow the manufacturers some limited changes once per year, which I believe is the case in F1 with the new engines. One is way ahead of the others and it is not good for the sport.

[stefanvv]

Isn't that part of "R5 low costs" part of the plan?

[Mirek]

I know the intention is good, but I hate 'development freezes' in motorsport, isn't that partly what the sport is all about from a manufacturers point of view? What do the engineers do for the 6 years between new cars :rolleyes:

Agree. I don't like that either...


I think they should allow the manufacturers some limited changes once per year, which I believe is the case in F1 with the new engines. One is way ahead of the others and it is not good for the sport.

It's not like it is all frozen. Development is possible but quite a lot limited.

[mousti]

Yes indeed sadly it is like that. And that's why they should probably allow it. PSA is a big constructor and if it its true about the engine block they need another engine..

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[stefanvv]

Perhaps they can homologate new model - 208 LHWBD (Lets Hope it Won't Brake Down)?:D

[Tom206wrc]

Yesterday saturday Claudio de Cecco won the Rally Nova Gorica in Slovenia, driving for the first time his 208 T16(Friul Motor in Italy) ;)

But he hadn't really opponents there(Alex Humar who finished 2nd was driving a Clio R3 only) :mark:

[manthey]

Well there is one talent the 208 does have - that it's entertaining. I prefer this to a Fiesta WRC any day of the week.

absolutely! let's see next year how will sound given the fact wilson abandoned pipo moteur and will build in house the engine.
I listened also ds3 r5, can we say they sound almost the same? I didn't find any raw exhaust, seems to me psa have decided to not distinguish their r5...or am I wrong?

[br21]

Fiesta R5 engine was made in house at MSport, Pipo was not directly involved. French company was making engines for WRC cars, and from next year MSport will do them on their own. So Fiesta R5 sound will stay the same.

[RS]

Fiesta R5 engine was made in house at MSport, Pipo was not directly involved. French company was making engines for WRC cars, and from next year MSport will do them on their own. So Fiesta R5 sound will stay the same.

It sounds the same as the Fiesta WRC pretty much anyway.

I doubt the sound of the Fiesta WRC will change much anyway as it will probably be built to the same design still?

[nafpaktos]

After the homologation(r5) each manufacturer has only one joker?about s2000 i have read the jokers was 10 jokers for the 5 first years and 5 for the next five years,is this right?about wrcars?

[Sulland]

Nope, in fact this situation shows that the rules are wrong. The intention was to save money of privateers who would be forced to buy updates too often. The problem is that as a result of these rules nobody wins and everybody looses. Peugeot looses because it has no results and no business but privateers loose too because they have no cars or at worse spent big money for useless cars without much hope for getting them better. The biggest looser is the sport which looses competitors especially if this situation leads to the end of rally program in Peugeot.

Principle only makes sense after the "drive-in" periode, and the car has gotten rid of all the gremlins. For some cars that takes two seasons, and for others two rallies. So all new R5s should get three jokers first year, and two the second year. After that one every two years, or some pattern like that.

[manthey]

Fiesta R5 engine was made in house at MSport, Pipo was not directly involved. French company was making engines for WRC cars, and from next year MSport will do them on their own. So Fiesta R5 sound will stay the same.

thanks for the precisation. so no possibility to listen a more raw sound from m-sport...

[Mirek]

The sound of Fabia R5 live isn't any better...

[RS]

The sound of Fabia R5 live isn't any better...

I Iike the sound, it just needs more volume, but I guess it isn't going to happen, performance is more important :)

It would be interesting to know what Peugeot have done to make the 208 so much louder??

[Sulland]

Has PSA found out what the R5 engine issue is, but can not do anything due to no Joker to be used?

[Jack4688`]

Just watching Eurosport's coverage of ERC Cyprus and the first thing that takes my attention is Bruno Magalhaes' in-car camera position - behind the driver and co-driver! Praise the lord! Back to a sensible view where you can appreciate the drivers' input.

Have I been paying little attention over this year or have they generally been in that awful WRC position in the mucky area of the front screen not swept by the wipers? As far as I can remember I haven't seen an R5 with the old, better camera position...

[Mirek]

There are tons of onboards from ERC Barum rally available on the website of Czech championship promoter. Most of them have nice camera position behind the crew (except factory Škodas, Tänak and Kajto). There are videos from all Czech events, Barum ones currently start at page 3: http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/onboardy.html?page=3

Some recommended ones :)
Breen SS Troják (with crash): http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/onboardy/6886.html
Pech, SS Semetín: http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/onboardy/6919.html
Tarabus, SS pindula: http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/onboardy/6915.html

[OldF]

Don’t they even check what they publish?

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/september/mitsubishi-r5/page/1786--12-12-.html

Power / Torque: 280hp@7500rpm / 450Nm@7500rpm :crazy:


With 450Nm@7500rpm the power would be 481 hp (with a 32 mm restrictor) :D.

[liposh]

"Could be seen in WRC2 next year" ? :-D I thought it has homologation only for Swedish championship. Anyway I am curious.

[Mirek]

I'm afraid PR people doesn't have a clue about the law between the power and torque...

[Mirek]

"Could be seen in WRC2 next year" ? :-D I thought it has homologation only for Swedish championship. Anyway I am curious.

They applied for FIA homologation.

I'm afraid it's going to be another MG S2000 story but with the PSA misery why not to try. Fingers crossed for every competitor.

[had_zachau]

Jan Cerny tested 208 R5 today
https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10629552_700080626736457_2245166075283756324_n.jpg ?oh=ca5998a14972b3b9c34453b00c40486c&oe=54C1E0D9

[stefanvv]

Don’t they even check what they publish?

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/september/mitsubishi-r5/page/1786--12-12-.html

Power / Torque: 280hp@7500rpm / 450Nm@7500rpm :crazy:


With 450Nm@7500rpm the power would be 481 hp (with a 32 mm restrictor) :D.

What rpm You think this tourque is possible?

[Mirek]

If we suppose the figures are correct (but I doubt them since Fiesta has more power and less torque while it still has pretty flat power curve)

Purely mathematically...

T = 450Nm; P = 280Hp = 206kW = 206000W

T = P / omega
omega = P / T = 206000 / 450 = 458 rad/s (angular speed)

omega = 2 * pí * RPM / 60
RPM = (omega * 60) / (2 * pí) = (458 * 60) / (2 * 3,14) = 4376

Be aware that having 450 Nm at 4376 RPM and 280 Hp at 7500 RPM means having 280 Hp all the way from 4376 to 7500 RPM which is theoretically possible but most likely the maximum torque is in this case in lower RPM.

Anyway it's just theory :)

[br21]

In theory it's possible to have 450Nm torque, as it's turbo engine, so relatively easy to map it stronger. Same thing was with Fiesta for example, but then engines started to be not reliable. But for sure those exact figures are bullshit as with so small restrictor car chokes above 6,5k RPMs and looses in performance, so no way it has those figures at max rpms. I think those values are just PR talk. And it won't be easy to homologate that car, as FIA is really strict with R5 homologations and way bigger companies (than that Ralliart Sweden) were struggling to do it quickly. Plus I'm not sure what Mitsubishi will do. As car is relatively brand new, not tested enough (comparing to other R5) and when they see now Peugeot problems they might be afraid if their Mitsubishi will have similar issues - it's not good promotion for company for sure. And when you start with some shit, then because of limited Jockers, etc you're in deep shit almost forever.

Anyway I hope more and more manufacturers will build R5 cars, so competition will be stronger.

[christy but]

is it me or does the r5 cars sound dreadful/quiet/boring ? they don't exactly get the hairs on your back standing

[Mirek]

is it me or does the r5 cars sound dreadful/quiet/boring ? they don't exactly get the hairs on your back standing

Fiesta and Fabia sound boring and silent, yes. 208 and DS3 sound great and very loud.

[RS]

208 and DS3 sound great and very loud.

A lot of the time the DS3 and 208 are even quieter than the Fabia and Fiesta.

[stefanvv]

:D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I have to agree the DS3 & 208 sound far louder than the R5 Fiesta (in fact more like WRC cars, especially the DS3).

Regarding torque - these modern 1.6 turbo cars can definitely make 450Nm with the mapping, but it will be at around 3000-4,500 rpm.

(PS. My Focus ST is only re-mapped and makes this much torque too... but it is a 2.5T ! ) :D

[Mirek]

Your Focus has no restrictor :p

Also don't forget that torque has a lot to do with engine capacity. Short-stroke 1.6 with limited turbo pressure isn't something what really excels in torque figures.

[MartijnS]

Test of Abbring at Corsica

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsxm-kl6VKA&app=desktop

Looks fast :)

[irish_tiger]

New Citroen DS3 R5 for Keith Cronin ,,,

[RS]

Valais and Corsica should be the 208s most suited events of the year.

[stefanvv]

Valais and Corsica should be the 208s most suited events of the year.

You mean there is bigger/any possibility to finish?

[EightGear]

Valais and Corsica should be the 208s most suited events of the year.
They're testing on Corsica right now.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qsxm-kl6VKA#

[Eli]

They're testing on Corsica right now.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qsxm-kl6VKA#

nice place Corsica, remind me again why aren't they in the WRC?

[Mirek]

They don't have money for WRC circus...

[Eli]

They don't have money for WRC circus...

ahh that explains everything...

[OldF]

What rpm You think this tourque is possible?

Mirek replied and I don’t have anything to add to it. I use the equation with a coefficient so no need to convert from units to another.

P (PS) = T (Nm) * rpm * 0,0001424

[RS]

You mean there is bigger/any possibility to finish?

Yes, smoother tarmac and cooler climate should both help.

[Ucci]

Yes, smoother tarmac and cooler climate should both help.

Well, at the end of October (Rallye du Valais) might be even to cold for ''sensible'' P208 R5.....

[Mirek]

Both Valais and Corsica aren't that smooth. Of course it's not Barum but there are some pretty bumpy roads in both events plus there is some gravel on asphalt setup at Valais.

[tommeke_B]

Also I'm not sure how cold/warm Corsica is during november, not that cold I think?

[EightGear]

Peugeot will homologate a new gearbox, which will be driven for the first time by Abbring in Alsace.

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/int/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2014/09/26/neues-getriebegehaeuse-fuer-208-t16

On the last part of the article it looks like Bruno Famin is blaming Sainteloc for the problems in ERC? My German isn't perfect enough to fully understand that part.

[stefanvv]

On the last part of the article it looks like Bruno Famin is blaming Sainteloc for the problems in ERC? My German isn't perfect enough to fully understand that part.

Looks like that (according to google as well). Obviously Peugeot are confident their engine is well designed.

[Mirek]

They can be confident but if nobody buys their car...

Anyway they can show us with a real works team it shall be done :p

[stefanvv]

They can be confident but if nobody buys their car...

Anyway they can show us with a real works team it shall be done :p

May be they need to sell some cars first. It looks like vicious circle.

[WRC1]

Peugeot will homologate a new gearbox, which will be driven for the first time by Abbring in Alsace.

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/int/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2014/09/26/neues-getriebegehaeuse-fuer-208-t16

On the last part of the article it looks like Bruno Famin is blaming Sainteloc for the problems in ERC? My German isn't perfect enough to fully understand that part.

it is right! peugeot is blaming saintloc...and paolo andreucci also shares that opinion...he got is 3 wins only because of really good preperations before and during the races...and thats what they blame saintloc...

[christy but]

have Peugeot fixed that rear window problem yet

[stefanvv]

May be no, also the rear bumper is quite problematic

[Mirek]

have Peugeot fixed that rear window problem yet

I think they added a thick plate made of some polymer foam under the wing mounting point which solved the braking issue.

[Tom206wrc]

Irish driver Keith Cronin in a Citroën DS3 R5 ??? :confused:
I've read something like that on polish website Autoklub and didn't understand what they meant :mark:

[Tom206wrc]

New Citroen DS3 R5 for Keith Cronin ,,,

OK thanks you answer my question :p:

[Tom206wrc]

Normally today saturday Jonathan Hirschi should have driven his 208 T16 in France at the rallye des Camisards but looks like he was forfait(no time in SS1 and no presence in retirement list) :confused:

[RICARDO75]

Pieter Tsjoen stoped on SS4 of East Belgian Rally

[EightGear]

Pieter Tsjoen stoped on SS4 of East Belgian Rally

He crashed, so not mechanical this time.

[HaCo]

Unfortunately the DS3 R5 of Verscheuren had mechanical issues on the last 3 stages, he lacked turbo pressure and was happy to finish anyway.

[RICARDO75]

Had the information that Peugeot has a new engine and that has already been tested in recent tests in Corsica

[EightGear]

Had the information that Peugeot has a new engine and that has already been tested in recent tests in Corsica
But has it been homologated? Do you know?

[RICARDO75]

No. Is not yet homologated. But it may be soon because, supposedly, would be new evolution of engine and gearbox for Valais and Corsica, according to what they told me.

[mousti]

So fast? Because these are drastic changes and not allowed according to the rules?

[EightGear]

They will homologate a new gearbox which will be used by Abbring this weekend in France. Famin denied rumours about a new engine, but you never know of course.

[Mirek]

So they solve notorious engine problems with a new gearbox? Sounds like a good plan...

[PLuto]

There will be new gearbox and some other small things... ;)

[stefanvv]

So they solve notorious engine problems with a new gearbox? Sounds like a good plan...

Yep, You never know, all these parts work alltogether, so lets hope it'll be "nice" to the engine.

[stefanvv]

There will be new gearbox and some other small things... ;)

Is by chance one of them bigger cooling circuits in the engine?

[Sulland]

MPart are already up into double digits with their Mirage!!
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/september/mitsubishi-r5/page/1786--12-12-.html

http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?threadid=491695

https://www.facebook.com/MitsubishiR5Official/photos/a.225077304368478.1073741828.224851261057749/262484023961139/?type=1&theater

Lets see if they get it homologated for beginning of 2015. Testing starts soon.

[RS]

Fabia r5 at Paris or not?

No mention of it so far..

[RS]

Fabia r5 at Paris or not?

No mention of it so far..

That looks like a no then. Maybe they will show it at the Autosport show in January?

[RS]

How did the 208 go on WRC Rallye de France? I didn't really follow it but I saw that Abbring finished..

[stefanvv]

How did the 208 go on WRC Rallye de France? I didn't really follow it but I saw that Abbring finished..

Yes, he won in RC2 class, but that's not so imortant. More important is that 208 actually finished really. No issues for it as far as I know. Big margin on first day, cruising on 3rd day.

[manthey]

so new gearbox plus other (secret?) things gave reliability ;)

[skarderud]

The swedish R5 is testing this month. Hopefully it is good constructed and some proper testdrivers.

[EightGear]

How did the 208 go on WRC Rallye de France? I didn't really follow it but I saw that Abbring finished..
Nothing went wrong with the car this weekend. A positive sign, let's see how it will hold in the remainder of the ERC season.

[Co-driven]

The swedish R5 is testing this month. Hopefully it is good constructed and some proper testdrivers.

Is Mitsubishi supporting this program?

To homologate a car there is the need of a manufacturer, right?

[br21]

Abbring used newly homologated diff housing in France. During the rally they had no major technical problems.

[dimviii]

skoda testing at CZ
https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10678743_772656469437821_86132430858143749_n.jpg?o h=9de5266645789e5a80e0c267f4d6b4bf&oe=54CC3D25

[Mirek]

Gallery of new Fabia R5 test on Barum stage Troják. Baumschlager and Loix were driving. Detailed photos of the new bodyshell :)

http://rsracing.rajce.idnes.cz/NEW_Skoda_Fabia_R5_test_2014/

http://img9.rajce.idnes.cz/d0902/10/10518/10518003_8f253f8934d46835c9cda1b7fa4bcc48/images/SAM_0046.jpg?ver=3
http://img9.rajce.idnes.cz/d0902/10/10518/10518003_8f253f8934d46835c9cda1b7fa4bcc48/images/SAM_0064.jpg?ver=3
http://img9.rajce.idnes.cz/d0902/10/10518/10518003_8f253f8934d46835c9cda1b7fa4bcc48/images/SAM_0066.jpg?ver=3

[A FONDO]

The front is lovely! The rear - nothing stunning, but certainly better than the previous.
Could it be ready for 1st January?

[Mirek]

No. At best at 1st March.

[marcosg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znr0mnyzQsw

not much to see... more to ear...

[Abarth]

What will be the logical diff in time per km ss between a WRC and a R5?

[Mirek]

I would answer same way as usually - the difference in s/km is not universal. It has so many variables that You can measure it only one one particular track with one particular driver, with same tyres and in same conditions. In other words the difference will never be same in Finland and on Corsica or on Monte Carlo. And the difference on SS1 of Monte Carlo will never be same as on SS15 of Monte Carlo even if there is same driver behind the wheel.

[RS]

Looks nice, although I'm keen to see it without the disguise.

I do like the turbo whistle at high speeds on the Fabia, it sounds like a jet aircraft.. just a shame the engine/exhaust sound is not louder.

[manthey]

I found interesting this picture..I guess it was taken from the "old" fabia...right?

Is it only for the adjustment of steering column's height with the various "memory" positions of the skoda drivers or for other reason?

[Mirek]

I think that it's because the drivers are not same figures. Kopecký is quite tall and therefore he has the steering wheel higher.

[RICARDO75]

Pieter Tsjoen's car for sale
http://www.rallycarsforsale.net/clas/index.php?ct=fsrc&md=details&id=79221

[Co-driven]

What was the cost limit for a new R5 car?

[nafpaktos]

About 230.000 with the lastest specs.

Edit sorry i read your question quickly and i answered something esle.

[AdvEvo]

I tought it was 180.000 euro.

It goes wrong again. Already over the 200.000 euro ad some Vat to it for private buyers and those cars are getting real expensive. Would be nice to see some more new manufactures with a group N 4wd rally car. Evo has stopped production and the new sti is way to big to be a rallycar. So if you want to go 4wd rallying you need to open you're wallet for an R5. I know lots of group N drivers can not handle that kind of budget. And they will not go for an FWD car.

[Andre Oliveira]

João Barros testing with Jari Ketomaa: http://youtu.be/VEgLHxL8Bzw

[mousti]

Group N will be history soon

[Mirek]

It goes wrong again. Already over the 200.000 euro ad some Vat to it for private buyers and those cars are getting real expensive. Would be nice to see some more new manufactures with a group N 4wd rally car. Evo has stopped production and the new sti is way to big to be a rallycar. So if you want to go 4wd rallying you need to open you're wallet for an R5. I know lots of group N drivers can not handle that kind of budget. And they will not go for an FWD car.

Forget about new N4 cars. No manufacturers are interested in such road cars as those aren't profitable. The market is too small and shrinking every year...

[dodge33cymru]

How much are those Swedish-built Mitsubishi R5s going for?

[skarderud]

I dont know exactly, but it is quite much cheaper than those other R5's. Just a guessing, around 120k€ when the others are around 200k€?

[liposh]

Maybe it is not bad way of doing business. The Mitsu could be slower in comparison with other R5 cars but if it would be +- same level in comparison with old S2000 cars (and if it will be homologated by FIA ) many people would like to buy it for national championships etc.

[Rally Power]

João Barros testing with Jari Ketomaa: http://youtu.be/VEgLHxL8Bzw

Ketomaa there to help João or any plans to run with P&B Racing?

[Mirek]

Maybe it is not bad way of doing business. The Mitsu could be slower in comparison with other R5 cars but if it would be +- same level in comparison with old S2000 cars (and if it will be homologated by FIA ) many people would like to buy it for national championships etc.

It doesn't work like that. See... there were virtually tons of supercheap Puntos S2000 but nobody was driving them simply because those were not competitive. If this car is not competitive against the rival R5 it will disappear quickly. Slow cars can exist only in one-make cups.

[tommeke_B]

Exactly, I hope this project is more serious than the MG S2000 and Opel S2000 we've seen in 2008/2009. They were not a disaster, but they were slower... After some "publicity-outings" nothing really happened with those cars.

[liposh]

Don´t get me wrong Mirek, it is necessary to take it seriously, but I just mean there are lot of various business strategies. IMHO guys with Mitsu will have smaller budget in comparison with PSA Ford and Skoda, but I believe they know where are their limits and they will act wisely with some kind of strategy and invention...that is the best we can pray for ;-)

[Andre Oliveira]

Ketomaa there to help João or any plans to run with P&B Racing?

Driving "lessons" ;)

[Reis Eduardo]

Driving "lessons" ;)


I think it may be new tires (Dmack) to João Barros.


www.facebook.com/Rallyface

[RICARDO75]

How much are those Swedish-built Mitsubishi R5s going for?

170.000€

[manthey]

It doesn't work like that. See... there were virtually tons of supercheap Puntos S2000 but nobody was driving them simply because those were not competitive. If this car is not competitive against the rival R5 it will disappear quickly. Slow cars can exist only in one-make cups.

from what I know and read, the main problem was due to the fact that punto s2000 is very very difficult to drive i.e. reach the car's limit and also very tough to set-up properly

[Mirek]

from what I know and read, the main problem was due to the fact that punto s2000 is very very difficult to drive i.e. reach the car's limit and also very tough to set-up properly

You didn't get the point.

What I meant is that it doesn't matter if some car is cheaper than others if it's not competitive (difficulty to drive/set-up is part of that). Many tried with cheaper cars but all failed - only from S2000 You can take Proton, MG, Corsa or Polo as other examples. All of them were reasonably cheaper than up-to date Fabia/207/Fiesta. R5/S2000 cars are all top-national/European level machinery. You don't buy such car to make others laugh about You. If You want to drive just for fun it's better to buy an old WRC instead and make some show...

Even if You go to lower classes You can find examples like 207 R3T which was a car made for one-make cup therefore cheaper but slower than others. Besides those one-make cups very few driver bought the car.

Rallying is still a sport and performance is the most important thing about any car. It's a circle. How can You get more sponsors if You don't have good results? For good results You must have a good car. It's just like that.

[Jarek Z]

BREAKING NEWS! First big success of Peugeot 208 T16! Paolo Andreucci wins Rally Due Valli and is the new Italian Rally Champion! It's amazing, but Ucci was leading from stage 2 until the finish line, won 5 stages out of 11 and his 208 didn't break down! Congratulations!

Rally Due Valli - final results:
1. P. ANDREUCCI PEUGEOT 208 T16
2. G. BASSO +21.8 FORD FIESTA R5 LDI
3. U. SCANDOLA +1'21.3 SKODA FABIA S2000

http://www.rallylink.it/diretteweb/images/phocagallery/0_diretteweb_2014/due_valli/venerdi_1/thumbs/phoca_thumb_l_03_andreucci.jpg

[nafpaktos]

I 've read on motorsport monday that there is a posibility to be imposed smaller restrictor to rrc cars(-1mm) obviously because these cars are faster compared to r5s.

[Mirek]

Yes, I heard this is planned at least for WRC events.

[Mirek]

Great video from that Troják test of Fabia R5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCcM2ZRaKLo

Second shot of the video is the corner where Breen crashed during Barum.

[liposh]

Video from official Skoda Motorsport youtube channel: http://youtu.be/mEsbz60DjrQ

[fegh]

Frigyes Turán retired from Mecsek Rallye 2014 after an accident, but he said that the car is now mature and worked very well. Apparently Peugeot are working on the right direction with the 208 T16.
http://www.turanmotorsport.hu/2014/10/18/elmaradt-a-varva-vart-pecsi-szerencse/

[Zeakiwi]

On the Mitsubishi r5 fb pages there is a pic of a row of mirages for conversion. Is the Mirage getting an offical fia r5 homolgation?

[Mirek]

On the Mitsubishi r5 fb pages there is a pic of a row of mirages for conversion. Is the Mirage getting an offical fia r5 homolgation?

The team said they would apply for international homologation.

[Tom206wrc]

Frigyes Turán retired from Mecsek Rallye 2014 after an accident, but he said that the car is now mature and worked very well. Apparently Peugeot are working on the right direction with the 208 T16.
http://www.turanmotorsport.hu/2014/10/18/elmaradt-a-varva-vart-pecsi-szerencse/


Also Miroslav Jakes had a good result with his DS3 R5 at Rally Vsetín finishing only +3" of Tomastik in his Subaru WRC ;)

[skarderud]

The team said they would apply for international homologation.

I did an intervju with the leder of the norwegian rallyboard this weekend, they have an apply for a national homologation, but they refuse it because of sweden did the same. The gearbox producer isnt capable to deliver enough gearboxes to the customers, so the spacestar R5 hasn't got theire first box yet.
Mitsubishi japan is now involved in the project, so it going to be an international homologation during spring 2015.

Sadly for us norwegians, because sveinung bieltvedt aming to use this car in the norwegian championship next year, but he has to wait to after the winterseason.
He is involved in the project too, in some sort, i understanded this weekend too.

[Mirek]

Fabia R5, Loix, Bajardo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKiDpEfjgsI

[nafpaktos]

From skoda motorsport
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8-CqYWdwig

[wwbroe]

From skoda motorsport
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8-CqYWdwig
I think this video was posted allready before:)

[polo10]

Fabia R5, Loix, Bajardo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKiDpEfjgsI

What happen to the car that we saw before????

[Mirek]

What do You mean? That this one is boring as hell? I told You so after Barum...

[polo10]

What do You mean? That this one is boring as hell? I told You so after Barum...
Yes , is quite boring to watch, and it does not look fast, but i hope it is....

[RS]

Yes , is quite boring to watch, and it does not look fast, but i hope it is....

At least the anti-lag sound is better than the Ford, and than the non-existent one on the Peugeot.. I think the main "problem" with this car, is 5 speed gearbox with long ratios and a very torquey engine.

I do not believe it will be slow, but the sound makes it look so - in the same way that S2000s look much faster than they really are.

[Mirek]

You know when it's most disappointing? When You are deep in the forest waiting for the cars to come. You can hear the screaming S2000 long time before You see them (also PSA R5) but with the Fiesta and Fabia R5 You first see them coming than hear them...

[Jack4688`]

Just like a gpN?

[Mirek]

Half of the gr.N cars is louder...

[RS]

Any ideas what Peugeot have done differently to make their car loud?

I'm sure Skoda and Ford would make their cars sound better too if there was no sacrifice in performance.

[AdvEvo]

I hear very often a clutch dump out of corners because the r5 does not have enough power to spin wheels on a dry corner/hairpin. For 200.000 euro you expect a little more!

Put in a bigger restrictor and a 6 speed gearbox for more action. And indeed the sound is very boring also.

[Mirek]

I hear very often a clutch dump out of corners because the r5 does not have enough power to spin wheels on a dry corner/hairpin. For 200.000 euro you expect a little more!

Put in a bigger restrictor and a 6 speed gearbox for more action. And indeed the sound is very boring also.

I'm afraid bigger restrictor would most likely lead to serious reliability problems.

[manthey]

Fiesta Wrc sounds decent, instead r5 very very quiet.

I'm not an engineer, I would appreciate if someone can explain me the technical reason to make a rally car sound good (208t16 &ds3 r5) vs fiesta & fabia weak loudness

[stefanvv]

Fiesta Wrc sounds decent, instead r5 very very quiet.

I'm not an engineer, I would appreciate if someone can explain me the technical reason to make a rally car sound good (208t16 &ds3 r5) vs fiesta & fabia weak loudness

M-Sport use silencer on Fiesta R5, don't know for Fabia though.

[br21]

I think engineers at MSport and Skoda didn't bother about sound being attractive for spectators. They just made exhaust good in terms of performance (which in case of turbo engine is not that difficult) and with some silencer to avoid any problems with noise level.

[RS]

I think engineers at MSport and Skoda didn't bother about sound being attractive for spectators. They just made exhaust good in terms of performance (which in case of turbo engine is not that difficult) and with some silencer to avoid any problems with noise level.

On the other hand the 208 looks and sounds great, but...

[miniwintz]

but it's also faster? (when it does not break down which is rare...)

[RS]

I meant but it breaks down all the time.. to be honest I would expect a bigger performance advantage over S2000 given the R5s advantage in torque and top speed, and that Lappi has probably been cruising most of the rally.

[Andre Oliveira]

Fiesta R5 PX14 HWY is chassis 79, so who have chassis 78?

[Tom206wrc]

In Italy last week-end Mauro Trentin(gravel rallies national champion)was driving a 208 T16 and finished 3rd overall(behind two WRC cars)at Rally Ronde Val d'Orcia ;)

[Jarek Z]

In the hands of Paolo Andreucci this car doesn't look bad at all:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k14TiTlE-6A

[stefanvv]

Yeah, this is definitelly better than 16T(roubles) in ERC

[Sulland]

In the hands of Paolo Andreucci this car doesn't look bad at all:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k14TiTlE-6A

My Italian is shabby, what does Paolo say?

[Filip]

In the hands of Paolo Andreucci this car doesn't look bad at all:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k14TiTlE-6A

In his hands every car looks good. :)

[Francis44]

Kris Meeke pushing the DS3 to the limit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhPi3F2p0NQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02p0ein3FkI

In good hands the car is quite spectacular.

[HaCo]

Kris Meeke pushing the DS3 to the limit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhPi3F2p0NQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02p0ein3FkI

In good hands the car is quite spectacular.

Of course and as always. I see a lot of people complaining about R5 being not spectacular. Funny thing that when the S2000 class first appeared you could hear the same complaints, now when it's almost gone people say it more spectacular.
In any car a good driver, looking for limits will make the car spectacular.

[RS]

The 208 and DS3 R5 are sure spectacular to watch, but to me it seems the rear end is to loose.

[manthey]

My Italian is shabby, what does Paolo say?

Paolo described the road, his driving acts and praised the chassis & engine
He added that the car had a lot of precision in the narrow corners
he said "I have to drive it using the torque, given the turbo engine"
Very good braking in comparison with s2000
All diffs are mechanical, no eletronic's help

[Tom206wrc]

News just in: the Peugeot 208 T16 is today danish champion thanks to Christian Jensen who won the Danboring Rally ;)

But he was alone in R5 class though(main contender was IB Kragh in an S2000) :mark:

[Gordini]

Are t16 and Ds 3 r5 exactly the same technicalli?
If no what are different?

[Rally Power]

http://autosport.pt/r5-chegam-em-forca-em-2015-no-wrc2-e-erc=f127933

The autosport guys sometimes post/print their dreams...this time they're saying Toy and Hyundai are secretly developing R5 cars!

Is there any credible clue on this?

[liposh]

BTW. What about Opel and Renault?

[HaCo]

BTW. What about Opel and Renault?
Renault told on rallye-magazine.de they don't want to develop R5.

[RS]

Renault told on rallye-magazine.de they don't want to develop R5.

Did they give a reason?

[AdvEvo]

Did they give a reason?


I think they do not care for 4wd because they don t sell a lot of 4wd cars!

[Mirek]

Is it different with Peugeot and Citroën? I don't think so. Their 4WD sales are also very limited, maybe in percentage even smaller than those in Renault.

[HaCo]

Renault has limited resources and find developing an R5 taking too long and too much resources.
This was the article http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2014/10/16/renault-sucht-nach-neuen-moeglichkeiten/index.html
No more Things R2, will be replaced by a Dacia model.

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

No more Twingo R2, will be replaced by a Dacia model.

Sandero R2..??
James May would like it..

[makinen_fan]

Reports that Hyundai asked Nasser to join the test of an R5 car. Any truth in this?
http://autosport.pt/autosport-tv-nasser-al-attiyah-confirma-planos-da-hyundai-para-r5=f128078

[Andre Oliveira]

Al-Attyiah said yes.

[manthey]

Reports that Hyundai asked Nasser to join the test of an R5 car. Any truth in this?
http://autosport.pt/autosport-tv-nasser-al-attiyah-confirma-planos-da-hyundai-para-r5=f128078

"always I prefer to support my country"
is it a concern connected with the hyundai r5 or was it purely an expression of his proudness to drive for his homecountry?

[liposh]

Last year Pluto said people from Hyundai were thinking about R5 but if they will decide to do it, they must definitely wait for i20 2015 to be revealed. So now it is the right time to start the work...so I belive it could be true.

[Francis44]

Nasser said they contacted him for a contract, so if they were looking for a driver I suspect they have extensive work on the project already.

[N.O.T]

Nasser is the guy who said he had a contract with VW a few years back... LOL...

[RS]

Good news if Hyundai is coming.. I was a bit worried the Peugeot debacle might have scared others off building an R5 car.

[Francis44]

Nasser is the guy who said he had a contract with VW a few years back... LOL...

And he had.......for Dakar.

[Mirek]

Last year Pluto said people from Hyundai were thinking about R5 but if they will decide to do it, they must definitely wait for i20 2015 to be revealed. So now it is the right time to start the work...so I belive it could be true.

i20 was revealed two months a go in Paris.

[mousti]

Nandan didn't deny it and said it's quite interesting to develop a R5 car. Good news IMO

[Rally Power]

http://autosport.pt/r5-chegam-em-forca-em-2015-no-wrc2-e-erc=f127933

The autosport guys sometimes post/print their dreams...this time they're saying Toy and Hyundai are secretly developing R5 cars!

Is there any credible clue on this?

It's weird to self quote a post, but I must say how amazing it's to see Autosport getting this scoop! They usually pick uncertain rumours in the web claiming to got them from reliable sources, but this times they actually did! Nice job...let's hope their Yaris R5 tip could also become real.

[Tom206wrc]

What happened to Claudio de Cecco on a serbian rally last week-end :confused:
He retired on the short SS3 of it...

[RS]

According to this article Toyota is developing a rear drive R5 car?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116727

[EightGear]

According to this article Toyota is developing a rear drive R5 car?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116727

Probably a typo I think.

Edit: Or maybe not, when I first read it, this part wasn't there yet:

(pictured above in R3 trim).

[Jack4688`]

It's written (if it's possible with a set of crayons) by David Evans, he writes absolute bollocks like this in both Autosport and Motorsport News. Take everything he writes with a pinch of salt

[Sulland]

According to this article Toyota is developing a rear drive R5 car?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116727

Why make a RWD R5, does that make sense?

[PLuto]

Dont believe everything what autosport.com write :)

[NoFear85]

What happened to Claudio de Cecco on a serbian rally last week-end :confused:
He retired on the short SS3 of it...

It wasn't in Serbia, but was a Croatian and Slovenian championship. He crashed, in SS3 and suffer an injury in his back.

[Jack4688`]

Dont believe everything what autosport.com write :)

Specifically that imbecile David Evans

[AndyRAC]

Specifically that imbecile David Evans

Thats a bit harsh, though he's more a WRC PR person than a journalist.

[Tom206wrc]

It wasn't in Serbia, but was a Croatian and Slovenian championship. He crashed, in SS3 and suffer an injury in his back.


Thanks ;)
I hope he will recover quickly...

[RS]

Fabia R5 premiere at the Essen Motorshow, 29th November: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=723759874383143&set=vb.142062625886207&type=2&theater

[Andre Oliveira]

Rumours about 3 Skoda to Portugal. Well one is for sure to Pedro Meireles and the others? Maybe João Barros will sell no one, but the two Fiesta and buy 2 Fabia.

[RICARDO75]

Rumours about 3 Skoda to Portugal. Well one is for sure to Pedro Meireles and the others? Maybe João Barros will sell no one, but the two Fiesta and buy 2 Fabia.

I've heard another version for João Barros and his uncle's plans.

[Andre Oliveira]

Fontes are selling his Porsche (135.000€) and the Subaru

[polo10]

Rumours about 3 Skoda to Portugal. Well one is for sure to Pedro Meireles and the others? Maybe João Barros will sell no one, but the two Fiesta and buy 2 Fabia.
Where do you "heard" those rumours?

[Andre Oliveira]

One friend. But Meireles buy R5 is almost sure. He said on interview.

[polo10]

One friend. But Meireles buy R5 is almost sure. He said on interview.
It is no true that about Meireles

[Andre Oliveira]

Only time will tell us.

[polo10]

Only time will tell us.
At this time it is not true, on the future we don t know...he never said in any interview that is almost sure, only that he wants to...it is different

[RICARDO75]

Rumours about 3 Skoda to Portugal. Well one is for sure to Pedro Meireles and the others? Maybe João Barros will sell no one, but the two Fiesta and buy 2 Fabia.

Pedro Meireles would like to buy the new Fabia R5 but like polo10 said, nothing is confirmed.
In fact, there are two other drivers interested in Fabia R5 but will also depend on the sale of their cars.
João Barros only has one Fiesta R5 for sale and he is not one of the drivers who want to buy the Fabia.

[manthey]

Pedro Meireles would like to buy the new Fabia R5 but like polo10 said, nothing is confirmed.
In fact, there are two other drivers interested in Fabia R5 but will also depend on the sale of their cars.
João Barros only has one Fiesta R5 for sale and he is not one of the drivers who want to buy the Fabia.

so J.Barros would like to keep one fiesta and let go the other one to substitute this with the fabia?

[RICARDO75]

so J.Barros would like to keep one fiesta and let go the other one to substitute this with the fabia?

No. A diferent car

[manthey]

No. A diferent car

he would like to buy a psa R5 instead of skoda?

[Andre Oliveira]

RRC not allowed on national.