Rally2 (ex-R5) News

[Tarmop]

Or maybe Pikes Peak? Should be WRC`Polo`s steering wheel...

[ToughMac]

Or maybe Pikes Peak? Should be WRC`Polo`s steering wheel...

No flappy paddle gear change so more than likely the R5.

[Andre Oliveira]

R5, testing soon in France

[Tarmop]

Yes, but google shows the same pic for 2013 spec (no flappy paddles then) polo wrc.

[mousti]

I heard presentation will be tomorrow...

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

[racerx1979]

Yup, Sadev gear lever a big giveaway. R5 it is.

[Tarmop]

http://www.autolimite.com/fotos/11017/volkswagen-polo-r-wrc-2013-interiores/volkswagen-polo-r-wrc_interior_02#imagen
That`s the picture i was talking about... Polo WRC launch, not R5 interior.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent.fopo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23168014_1918554754840609_4517226382129482012_n.jp g?oh=6fe59c73040a8395864e9c59bef31e40&oe=5AA1CF1D&dl=1
https://scontent.fopo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/23215458_1918554784840606_7111388893539417352_o.jp g?oh=2dda19e6d6d973ce72af66cb84ed0423&oe=5A9F57FB&dl=1
https://scontent.fopo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/23215738_1918554778173940_5938266310343142278_o.jp g?oh=5b65ba69081e9ec5d42c6564f4d83977&oe=5AA57AEE&dl=1

[Simmi]

Small story in MN today with Tommi quotes on a Toyota R5. Basically Tommi says they'd like to do it, he reckons Toyota would be on board too - but there currently isn't a suitable engine in the Toyota stable that lends itself to an R5, given the tighter restrictions on engine modifications.

With no change in the engine range seemingly on the horizon, it looks like the project is not getting off the ground any time soon. Which is a shame, as I think it was widely assumed this was happening.

[Mirek]

Here You go with the calling for return of gr.A... Even the biggest car manufacturer in the world doesn't produce anything suitable for making an R5 engine. That's why it's very often easier for manufacturers to build rally cars completely from scratch than to be bound by using stock components.

[TWRC]

C3 R5 livery for Var:
https://scontent.fbud4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23434996_2123546651212400_9150112860633693575_n.jp g?oh=cb813bca0d59de6fec44d7bac1e75cac&oe=5A69CD08

[Mirek]

Can I reserve one back seat? :D

[liposh]

Regarding the engine for Toyota. I thought even Skoda used quite different engine (like 1,8 TSI for chinese market only, or something like that because I don´t remember well...EDIT: I am right:"They chose the 1.8-liter, 123 kW EA 888 engine, produced in Shanghai, China" ) as base engine for R5. ...Don´t tell me Toyota doesn´t have anything like that anywhere in the world.

[Mirek]

They don't. Toyota doesn't produce any turbocharged engines in the suitable volume range 1.6-2.0 except one which is special engine operating in Atkinson't cycle, i.e. it is suitable as a range extender for hybrid cars but not as a base for racing engine because Atkinson's cycle sacrifices power per volume for fuel efficiency.

EA888 is codename for all recent 1.8TSI engines (whole family is designed by Audi). Chinese variants are somewhat modified compared to European ones but it's not different engine, just a modification of the same one as in Europe.

[pantealex]

Can I reserve one back seat? :D

Easier to push in winter because rear glass is heated ;)

[Zeakiwi]

My guess Toyota in their conservative way are testing the waters with the Gazoo Yaris - 1.8 litre supercharged engine. 400 editions to seed the market for a hot hatch yaris road car.
The body is changing? for the 2019 Yaris so there is little point of doing R5 for one year of the current yaris?
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/toyota-yaris-gazoo-racing-masters-of-nurburgring-does-exactly-what-you-d-expect-119275.html

So perhaps bigger volume of new model supercharged Yaris in 2019 and sprinkle them between Asia and Europe, then consider R5 model?

NZ AP4 1600cc Yaris runs 2ZR engine destroked from 1.8 litres. Australian AP4 runs 2zz-ge engine.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

R5 VW Polo coming along just in time to torpedo the new C3 R5... poor old Citroen. ;)

[RS]

So are there any changes to R5 rules in 2018 or not?

I know paddle shift was cancelled but I haven’t seen FIA say anything else.

[RS]

Thanks, so current rules were confirmed for another two seasons?

No bigger restrictor then either..

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Sorry if I missed this info if its already been given, but is there any news on the Mk8 Fiesta R5 ?

[Andre Oliveira]

Later in 2018

[Andre Oliveira]

2nd day of Polo R5 test in France and no pics?

[RICARDO75]

Bonato Test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCJdxs3bPe0

[dimviii]

some more closer photos from c3 r5

https://scontent.fath3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23722301_952920428204433_6686406389061855682_n.jpg ?oh=912c8b6900b8a1f85de04b9d3de7487f&oe=5AD45876
https://scontent.fath3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23795136_952920408204435_3243117050284328430_n.jpg ?oh=42c105688ce3ac9f8373869112f385f9&oe=5AA9D033
https://scontent.fath3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23754989_952921091537700_5967684064231941698_n.jpg ?oh=5523cd260035177eabec42c9ef9d2b89&oe=5A8EC6BF

https://www.facebook.com/pg/julienpixelrallye/photos/?tab=album&album_id=952920251537784

[Mirek]

Front strut in Fabia R5/i20 R5/asphalt C3 WRC way.

[dimviii]

new video with c3 r5,but its playing way fast. Really cant understand this trend....

https://youtu.be/KmmQh5fQvb8

[RICARDO75]

Video C3 R5 from Checkpoint Rallye

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKv_pvxJKI8&feature=em-uploademail

[Sulland]

At least it looks good, it is for some reason cleaner looking than the WRCar sister.

speedwise hard to tell, but the C3 challenge has not been on asfalt!!

[RS]

The put-put-put under braking on the Citroen sounds a bit silly, but overall it looks more convincing than the previous generation PSA R5s.

[Andre Oliveira]

It is a second generation R5 car. Bad if not better ;)

[RS]

It is a second generation R5 car. Bad if not better ;)

Numerous joker updates on the first generation cars seemed to make sod all difference.

[Mirek]

I think that they still have relative disadvantage in used stock base engine even though it went through a lot of changes since the time DS3 was developed. I mean that they are still the only ones using stock 1.6 engine as a basis and therefore near stock bore/stroke ratio which is a lot different than in other cars (they have smaller bore and larger stroke).

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPf9NFuXUAMc1FH.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPf9NFoXcAA6rXA.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPf9NFtXcAE9T5A.jpg

[RS]

I think that they still have relative disadvantage in used stock base engine even though it went through a lot of changes since the time DS3 was developed. I mean that they are still the only ones using stock 1.6 engine as a basis and therefore near stock bore/stroke ratio which is a lot different than in other cars (they have smaller bore and larger stroke).

Yeah, engine still doesn’t look that strong from videos so far although power delivery looks less weird than on the old car.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The put-put-put under braking on the Citroen sounds a bit silly, but overall it looks more convincing than the previous generation PSA R5s.

Sounds awful... especially compared to the old DS3 R5 which sounded fabulous.

Looks good though.

[Sulland]

Does this make sense: http://www.carmag.co.za/technical_post/longstroke-vs-shortstroke/

So for rally the longstroke gives a bit more torque in low revs, is that the main advantage?
in the two litre era they used to be square did they not?

I thought the modern turbos compensated for this.

[Mirek]

Does this make sense: http://www.carmag.co.za/technical_post/longstroke-vs-shortstroke/

So for rally the longstroke gives a bit more torque in low revs, is that the main advantage?
in the two litre era they used to be square did they not?

I thought the modern turbos compensated for this.

I am not engine engineer but if I remember the main issue with such small bore engines is that the piston is so small that there is not enough space for larger valves. For sure there is a reason why purpose-built WRC engines have large bore and short stroke - Polo WRC bore/stroke ratio 1,125; Fiesta WRC 1,123; C3 WRC 1,167. Now compare with same size R5 units. Fabia R5 1,088 (based on 1.8 stock engine with shortened stroke); Fiesta R5 1,192 (based on 2.0 stock engine with shortened stroke); C3 R5 0,897 (based on stock 1.6 engine).

[Andre Oliveira]

250

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPoIr-zWsAEBg_b?format=jpg&name=large

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPoZsfTX4AUXsHw?format=jpg&name=large

[Barreis]

VW stuff
http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/133299

[Andre Oliveira]

I am curious how will be a VW rally car without Ogier hands

[electroliquid]

I am curious how will be a VW rally car without Ogier hands

Škoda without Ogier always doing fine, so I'm calm about it ;)

[dimviii]

which i20 Hyundai has the 4b11 from Evo X?
https://rallysportmag.com/details-emerge-proton-iriz-r5/

[Mirek]

The 2.0T/2.4T engines of Mitsubishi, Hyundai and Chrysler/Dodge were really developed as a joint venture. At least the engine block of Mitsubishi 4B11 and Hyundai Theta II is same. The block itself was even designed by Hyundai. Therefore if Hyundai used Theta II with shorter stroke as a base engine for R5 it's the case mentioned in the article.

[RS]

Škoda without Ogier always doing fine, so I'm calm about it ;)

Besides, again it seems likely the VW will share a lot with the Skoda and now they borrowed one of their drivers too.

[Jarek Z]

First impressions from VW test driver Dieter Depping:
https://www.fiaerc.com/new-polo-r5-impresses-former-erc-driver-depping/

[Duvel]

An other question.

Are there any drivers ho have plans to compete whit the Opel R5 car? Or has it not been homologated yet?
Would be a nice adition to the other R5 cars.

And isn't there a Mitsu R5 somewhere also? And what about the proton?

Wich R5 cars have ever been build so far?

[Mirek]

Are there any drivers ho have plans to compete whit the Opel R5 car? Or has it not been homologated yet?

It's not homologated and the question is whether it will ever be.


And isn't there a Mitsu R5 somewhere also?

Mitsubishi is not homologated. It's running in some national events under national homologation and in APRC under regional homologation though.


And what about the proton?

Not yet homologated either but it's likely going to be.


Wich R5 cars have ever been build so far?

Internationally homologated to date: Peugeot 208 T16 R5, Citroën DS3 R5, Ford Fiesta R5, Škoda Fabia R5, Hyndai i20 R5.

[electroliquid]

It's not homologated and the question is whether it will ever be.

MItsubishi R5 even non homologated found it's place in Sweden, Finland, UK. Is there possibility that Opel R5 might be used in DE, or other countries? Is there class to run non homologated R5 spec car? And are in middle Europe some hardcore Opel rally drivers, who could be very interested in it?

[Rally Power]

More news on the Proton: https://rallysportmag.com/details-emerge-proton-iriz-r5/

edit: already mentioned by dimvii

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQDd8tCX4AApeXu?format=jpg&name=large

[Sulland]

Soon the R5 category have passed 600 produced cars! That is impressive.

250 Fords, 200 Skodas, aprox 120 PSAs, 35 Hyundais, 12 Mitsubishis, 2 Toyotas.
We will welcome VW and PSAs new C3, and the Proton in 2018. Maybe also a int homologation of the Mitsubishi.

That the R5 has been a success, is an understatement!!

[Andre Oliveira]

Polo GTI R5 news tomorrow ;)

[Mirek]

250 Fords, 200 Skodas, aprox 120 PSAs, 35 Hyundais, 12 Mitsubishis, 2 Toyotas.

Toyota?

[dimviii]

While news of Skoda Motorsport plans for 2018 are waiting to be announced, they have carried out winter rally tests run by the John Haugland Winter Rally School.
These were carried out by Ole Christian Veiby and Kalle Rovanpera at the disused Norwegian Dagali airport.

https://rallysportmag.com/weekend-rally-news-december-4/

[Andre Oliveira]

Toyota?

The south american Etios R5

[pantealex]

Soon the R5 category have passed 600 produced cars! That is impressive.

250 Fords, 200 Skodas, aprox 120 PSAs, 35 Hyundais, 12 Mitsubishis, 2 Toyotas.
We will welcome VW and PSAs new C3, and the Proton in 2018. Maybe also a int homologation of the Mitsubishi.

That the R5 has been a success, is an understatement!!

Maybe we should only count FIA cars, if some private company calls their car R5 it does´t mean it´s R5. Both Proton and Opel are more R5 than African Toyota.

[electroliquid]

Maybe we should only count FIA cars, if some private company calls their car R5 it does´t mean it´s R5. Both Proton and Opel are more R5 than African Toyota.

Yes, we should, but in this case 14 R5's without FIA homoogation is nothing against 605 R5's with FIA homologation.

What about S2000 cars? It's only few years while R5's take lead, and S2000 already almost extinct in even regional rallies.

[Mirek]

The overall numbers of S2000 cars are likely similar. The fact they disappeared near completely is quite logical because FIA stopped new homologations of them already 6 years a go. That's a long time in motorsport.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQNFLU2WAAAJQrf?format=jpg&name=medium

[Sulland]

New Top Dog?

[RS]

New Top Dog?

Likely, as they will have been able to take old top dog Fabia and further optimise it.

[Andre Oliveira]

Pics by Nacho Villarin

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQNvCv4XkAYdu0B?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQNu_GBXUAATqOz?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQNurLIW0AEPLvf?format=jpg&name=large

[Mirek]

That looks like mock-up. I was hoping for a real car.

[Mirek]

At least this time it looks like MEM used some expensive but highly regarded suppliers like Reiger or Brembo.

[Sulland]

Polo looks long, longer than the WRC did. Are the physical dimensins known?

[Jarek Z]

New Top Dog?

German shepherd :D

[Mirek]

Polo looks long, longer than the WRC did. Are the physical dimensins known?

It's 5 cm longer than the WRC. Not really something you can easily notice. What gives the optical feeling is way larger wheelbase (8,4 cm larger).

[Tarmop]

Polo mk5 (road)
Length 3970mm
Width 1901mm
Height 1462mm
Wheelbase 2470mm

Polo mk6 (road)
Wheelbase 2,564 mm (100.9 in)
Length 4,053 mm (159.6 in)
Width 1,780 mm (70.1 in)
Height 1,448 mm (57.0 in)

I don`t believe that they have taken mirrors into account on mk6 width...

[Mirek]

1901 mm width for Polo V is for sure including mirrors. Without them it would be of similar width as Porsche Panamera :D

[NoFear85]

when they homologate polo gti r5?

[TheFlyingTuga]

when they homologate polo gti r5?

Summer 2018

[dimviii]

any more news about that?

InfoRallyes‏*
@inforallyes
Lukyanuk esta probando el Hyundai i20 R5

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQSl1NQWkAE_snB.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Info re the new R5 Polo being 5-door..

"the Polo GTI is built on the same MQB platform that underpins everything from the Golf to the huge Skoda Kodiaq SUV. This light and strong architecture allows the bodyshell of the five-door only Polo to be 28 percent stiffer than its predecessors."

[itix]

I read sulland speculating on a homologation of the Mitsubishi... Is there any basis for this that I have somehow missed?

[itix]

1901 mm width for Polo V is for sure including mirrors. Without them it would be of similar width as Porsche Panamera :DIsn't the FIA requirement 1850? (or 1800 perhaps?)
The polo might take off some mirrors on tight stages if they stick out past the fenders.

(although the rally car will likely have smaller mirrors so I don't imagine it will be an issue)

[CWJ]

"the Polo GTI is built on the same MQB platform that underpins everything from the Golf to the huge Skoda Kodiaq SUV. This light and strong architecture allows the bodyshell of the five-door only Polo to be 28 percent stiffer than its predecessors."

Still a disadvantage to the Fabia R5.


That looks like mock-up. I was hoping for a real car.

FX is a Pro, didn't turn his pockets inside out :)

[Mirek]

Isn't the FIA requirement 1850? (or 1800 perhaps?)
The polo might take off some mirrors on tight stages if they stick out past the fenders.

(although the rally car will likely have smaller mirrors so I don't imagine it will be an issue)

The value was for the stock car. It has nothing to do with FIA regs because they don't speak about size over mirrors. Otherwise the limit is 1820 mm.

[Mirek]

Still a disadvantage to the Fabia R5.)

Can You elaborate why the MQB is a disadvantage compared to the old PQ26 platform? I would say the huge wheelbase (for the relatively small length of the car) is clear advantage, or?


Anyway according to the info from autosport.cz some of first Polo R5 shall go to BRR (Baumschlager shall be also involved in the development). At least two of the first fifteen cars (plan for 2018) shall go to South America.

[Andre Oliveira]

DIESA group (South America)

[mousti]

Anyway according to the info from autosport.cz some of first Polo R5 shall go to BRR (Baumschlager shall be also involved in the development). At least two of the first fifteen cars (plan for 2018) shall go to South America.
No surprise in that. Heard that there are already 3 have been ordered for Belgium.


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[PLuto]

There is lot of teams/drivers interested in buying Polo. But manufacturer will be choosing very precisely who will receive first cars...

[itix]

The value was for the stock car. It has nothing to do with FIA regs because they don't speak about size over mirrors. Otherwise the limit is 1820 mm.Yeah I got that... I was wondering how it could be wider stock than an R5 is allowed to be (it would make a useless base for the car in that case). It must be with mirrors.

My second thought was that those mirrors were gonna be taken off quickly but I forgot that they obviously change not only the mirrors but also the location of them on most rally cars so it was a moot point regardless.

[dimviii]

RallyingUK *
��
‏*
@RallyingUK
VOLKSWAGEN POLO GTI R5: The new @volkswagenms Polo GTI R5 has been testing in Wales today with @PontusTidemand at the wheel #WRC2 #FIAERC

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQcei5zVAAAHqwd.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQcei50UMAAeFw7.jpg

[nafpaktos]

There is lot of teams/drivers interested in buying Polo. But manufacturer will be choosing very precisely who will receive first cars...


Pluto i would like to ask you what do you think about this project.I mean do you believe that a car without official team to the rallies(either erc or wrc) can beat cars running under official teams?The two best cars ford and skoda are running with full support.See what happen to peugeot,citroen,hyundai.Why this venture should have different fate?

[WRC1]

i belive there will be (as pluto said) very few, very precisley choosen teams such as BRR to run the cars....and such Teams can for sure beat cars run directly from factory!

[dimviii]

Colin Clark‏*
@voiceofrally
Fabulous morning watching the @volkswagenms Polo GTI R5 being out through its paces by @PontusTidemand in Wales. Video to follow shortly


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQc-h0tUMAASXhL.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Polo looking very similar to the Fabia using the same test camouflage and has the same central exhaust:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzctO1rCAAA-DIL.jpg

http://www.i-motorsport.cz/foto/maxthumb/skoda-fabia-r5-new-test-trojak-10-2014-2.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

@BowenDale
Found a rally car testing in the woods in Wales!

https://twitter.com/BowenDale/status/938767905969205248


Polo tarmac test last week, if not posted before ...
http://www.racecar.com/News/87528/Motorsport/Successful-first-test-outing-for-the-Volkswagen-Polo-GTI-R5

[Mirek]

Polo looking very similar to the Fabia using the same test camouflage and has the same central exhaust:

While I am sure that Polo takes something from Fabia (just like the WRC took a lot from the S2000) it's not the things visible from outside. Polo is larger and has much longer wheelbase. Moreover it's built on different platform and therefore it's not just about placing the existing things into the new body and develop them further.

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQcswopVQAAFUuW.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQcswolVQAAXc5e.jpg

[PLuto]

Pluto i would like to ask you what do you think about this project.I mean do you believe that a car without official team to the rallies(either erc or wrc) can beat cars running under official teams?The two best cars ford and skoda are running with full support.See what happen to peugeot,citroen,hyundai.Why this venture should have different fate?

I am sure that R5 cars can be in very good condition in private hands. I think that Gemini Citroen DS3 R5 was better than any other factory car. I think that Fabias of BRR or Kresta Racing are on similar level like factory cars. So with private cars you can beat factory cars. But there are different issues - if you are going with factory, you have lot of kms of testing before events, you have almost no limits with changing spare parts etc. I think that is the biggest difference between privateer and factory driver...

Not so big success of Peugeot, Citroen or Hyundai is from different reasons, for me. Peugeot and Citroen had bad reputation from beginning and they had (and still have) issues which are not working at all. With the Hyundai it is different story - I think that factory made a mistake with "promotion" - there is not enough strong drivers who should show the potential of the car...

[PLuto]

i belive there will be (as pluto said) very few, very precisley choosen teams such as BRR to run the cars....and such Teams can for sure beat cars run directly from factory!

As next year there will be build only very limited number of cars and interest is really huge, they have a chance to choose. So primary they will deliver the cars to big teams like BRR or to the teams with official dealership support and also to strong markets... When they will make more cars, it will go also to other teams...

[RS]

Polo looks nice but as the road car is so wide it doesn't look as wild as some other R5s.

From that one video it has a similar lazy, long geared sound to the Fabia, but that's no surprise.

[Mirek]

Can You post link to the video?

[RS]

Can You post link to the video?

The twitter link on the previous page.

[dimviii]

Quentin Giordano‏
4 days of test with the #i20R5 @HMSGOfficial, it was top! We keep the rhythm for the 2018! #SarrazinMotorsport


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQdWcy6UMAArcqE.jpg

[nafpaktos]

I am sure that R5 cars can be in very good condition in private hands. I think that Gemini Citroen DS3 R5 was better than any other factory car.

I think that Fabias of BRR or Kresta Racing are on similar level like factory cars.

Μaybe i wasn't clear enough.I was not reffering to national championsips,we all know that Paolos car in Italy was perfect for example.I mean how good are to international level.About Fabias of BRR or Kresta Racing the car is also running by factory team and that's why these cars are so good,we say the same thing.

[RICARDO75]

Polo video from Colin Clark facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/voiceofrally/videos/852129878283010/?hc_ref=ARSwu39v7g1M25ELjIxrLjAtYzd3IBXlO8a9agP4BI H5tagtqXC_kI00a4tMtmy-q_Y

[nafpaktos]

if you just design the car(even if the product is really good) and you do not follow it to rallies as a factory team i think you have a HUGE disadvantage compared to other teams that follow their cars with their official engineers.i have been many times to tests and the difference between a factory team and a private team is HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE from all aspects.I think there is a big difference to collect the data directly (from your own )than from a team that you have a cooperation.By that they know the car much better and can evolve it more efficiently

[pantealex]

Sure VW will send their "data people" to rallies for customers, just like M-Sport and Skoda are doing.

[RS]

Difficult to say for sure but from this photo it looks like the Polo has a more conventional front suspension layout than the Skoda: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQcswolVQAAXc5e.jpg

[RICARDO75]

Difficult to say for sure but from this photo it looks like the Polo has a more conventional front suspension layout than the Skoda: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQcswolVQAAXc5e.jpg

diferent platforms.
Fabia - PQ24
Polo - PQ25 (same new Seat Ibiza and Audi A1)

[mousti]

Footage of testing in Wales

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV1sRdGhbFg

[Mirek]

diferent platforms.
Fabia - PQ24
Polo - PQ25 (same new Seat Ibiza and Audi A1)

Fabia III is PQ26, Polo VI is MQB.

PQ24 (Fabia II/S2000) and PQ 25 (Polo V/WRC) were nearly same, the difference was that PQ25 was 4WD adapted variant of PQ24 I believe.

Anyway the answer to the question about front strut design definitely isn't in the used platform.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

While I am sure that Polo takes something from Fabia (just like the WRC took a lot from the S2000) it's not the things visible from outside. Polo is larger and has much longer wheelbase. Moreover it's built on different platform and therefore it's not just about placing the existing things into the new body and develop them further.

Of course, just visual similarities from photos.

But VW will 'build-on' the strengths of the Fabia wont they... or will Škoda not allow them the full info about their car ?

DS3 and 208T16 shared a lot between them even though both were PSA... will VAG ?

[RICARDO75]

Fabia III is PQ26, Polo VI is MQB.

PQ24 (Fabia II/S2000) and PQ 25 (Polo V/WRC) were nearly same, the difference was that PQ25 was 4WD adapted variant of PQ24 I believe.

Anyway the answer to the question about front strut design definitely isn't in the used platform.

That's what I found on the net. But anyway, I believe more in you

[Sulland]

New/speculation from Sweden: http://www.emotorsport.se/nyheter.php?in=2&nyhets_id=14665
it says tha development can get cheap for the Opel. The new Corsa has the same platform as the C3. Due to that most parts can be reused.

Opel also awaits the new R2 rules, and expect also here to let development happen in france, and have one ready in 2019.

Good to get more brands, to have freedom of choice, and also possibility to get support from national importers.



Really hope Opel get behind it and give a drive to their Junior champion.

More pics:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAHiWNqU0AAvrQS.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAHiXchU0AMc4Jw.jpg:large

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQjYYyYX4AI_-0V?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQjYYyZXkAERB2r?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQjYXKCWkAI_0wW?format=jpg&name=large

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQjYXKWXUAARcK9?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQjYXKCX4AIuiZl?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQjYXJ3X0AAGfxB?format=jpg&name=large

[tc10a]

Great shots, Raimund Baumschlager behind the wheel.

[Fly_Half]

Great shots, Raimund Baumschlager behind the wheel.

Thank you! Some of those images are mine (RallyCaptures).

[Andre Oliveira]

Great job :)

[RS]

I don't really understand VAGs Motorsport strategy tbh. Sure they can borrow a lot of stuff off Skoda to keep the development costs down, and an R5 programme should be profit making. But on the other hand they will probably damage the sales of Skoda Motorsport (indeed we've already seen that if BRR are moving to the Polo)

Sure they will bring some extra sales to the market from local VW importers e.t.c. but every Polo sale is not going to equal an extra R5 sale.

[electroliquid]

We could see from different point of view: They have knowledge form S2000, WRC, R5 programs, using that building car in other platform than Fabia R5 with low resources (while Fabia R5 is relatively new car), which would help to adapt R5 to other brand names (like SEAT) quite easy.
PSA doing same, and only because their car isn't good enough, that don't work for them very well.

[Rally Power]

I don't really understand VAGs Motorsport strategy tbh.

They’re using the TCR recipe (the Golf and the A3 are based in the Leon), which proved to work fine. Besides, VW will not be competing Skoda as rival manu team and they’re contributing for a bigger diversity of R5 models, helping national and regional series to get stronger.

[RS]

They’re using the TCR recipe (the Golf and the A3 are based in the Leon), which proved to work fine. Besides, VW will not be competing Skoda as rival manu team and they’re contributing for a bigger diversity of R5 models, helping national and regional series to get stronger.

I just hope VAG Motorsport programmes don't go the same way as the road car business where increasingly they are rebranding the same product and building them in the same factory.

[pantealex]

I just hope VAG Motorsport programmes don't go the same way as the road car business where increasingly they are rebranding the same product and building them in the same factory.

Well it´s much more wrong that some people prefer Ford or VW with Mitsubishi engine (those Proto cars)
or that new R4...

I don´t care where they built those R5´s.

[RS]

Well it´s much more wrong that some people prefer Ford or VW with Mitsubishi engine (those Proto cars)
or that new R4...


Very true.

[the sniper]

According to the British Rally Championship Twitter page, the R5 VW and Proton will be on the BRC stand at the Autosport Show in January. I imagine in the case of the Polo it'll be the mock-up we saw on 4th December, but we'll see.

https://twitter.com/MSA_BRC/status/940665059717476352

[dimviii]

nice fabia cut outs

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRAB-tsW0AArtyA.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRAB_8BXcAAsyWQ.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRACA71WkAAXI9Y.jpg

[Sulland]

When can we expect an R5 from Toyota, I seem to remember it was planned.

Have Tommi & Co started this project at all yet?
if yes, will we see testing in 2018?

[liposh]

If I am not mistaken Toyota doesn´t have proper engine and that´s all folks.

[Mirek]

Yes, it was mentioned here already in Tommi's own words.

[Sulland]

Yes, it was mentioned here already in Tommi's own words.

Found it.
Sorry, but the teflon layer grows thicker for oldies running towards 60!

[dimviii]

The Czech brand concentrates its approval jokers for 2018 in the power unit of the Fabia R5.
The aim of the brand is none other than to give the car more power and torque, as well as to provide it with a power strip that is easier to use. The Skoda Fabia R5 has remained throughout this season among the favorites of its category and specifications, still ahead of the improvements obtained by Hyundai and M-Sport.
For 2018 new rivals are added, such as the Citroën C3 R5, which replaces the DS3 R5 or the Volkswagen Polo GTI R5, with which, a priori, should not have direct competition, since both belong to the Volkswagen Group.

Chief engineer Skoda, Ales Rada, is responsible for the development of the Fabia R5, who said: "The main focus is on the engine. For me it makes sense to use the five jokers in this area. It makes it easier for customers to update their cars and they are up to date. "


http://www.autohebdosport.es/rallyes/skoda-mejora-motor-fabia-r5

[RS]

Bad news for the opposition when the Skoda already has the strongest engine.

Any ideas when these updates will debut?

[Barreis]

does anybody know how much bhp have r5 engines?

[Mirek]

AFAIK 300-320 Hp.

[br21]

Power is like Mirek wrote. At the moment strongest engine is in Hyundai I think. But really not that big differences between all the cars in latest specs, even this year PSA engines became really OK.

[RS]

At the moment strongest engine is in Hyundai I think. But really not that big differences between all the cars in latest specs...

Really? Do you mean only in terms of top end power or overall performance?

[br21]

Really? Do you mean only in terms of top end power or overall performance?

In general. Hyundai feels most powerful, Skoda also very close, but with evo2 engine Fiesta is really not far away... OK, Skoda is always with long gear ratios, etc. but differences are not that big. I don't have big experience with different fuels in all R5 cars, but Fiesta on one sport fuel have 10/15hp difference comparing to the other sport fuel. So this is also a factor. Same like factory/customer spec mappings, etc. So there are many variables...

[tommeke_B]

Do you think it's possible that rules with a single fuel supplier (like in WRC or in Belgium) may favour one of the cars? Could it be more fair to allow any type of fuel for everyone?

[PLuto]

Do you think it's possible that rules with a single fuel supplier (like in WRC or in Belgium) may favour one of the cars? Could it be more fair to allow any type of fuel for everyone?

For sure yes.

[br21]

Some fuels are better (new spec ETS, VP, etc) and some worse (WRC Panta), and some engines cope better with worse performance fuel (less prone for knocking, etc.). So for sure this will make a difference. On the other hand all manufacturers have mappings for few different fuels but not every mapping is done same way, some are done 100%, some let's say 90% because some customer wanted to use this fuel, so they made mapping for it and offer it also for everyone else, but it's not done with so much attention, etc. So if they know they all need to use some XXX brand fuel everywhere in the world for example they focus on mapping for it and then it's more even with performance, but still some differences, as some fuels favor more some engines, etc.
Other thing is that in R5 main concern is pop-off valve so strategy for it is most important, as in ideal conditions one engine can be super strong but then will have many issues with pop-off so will loose most... so all is about finding proper balance. Better to loose some 0,1-0,2b boost (as most R5 cars allow to do manually or automatically by software itself), so of course loosing hp/Nm then but still better than loosing 0,8b boost when pop-off opens. Similar rules with ALS strategies, etc.

[Andre Oliveira]

Homologation jokers:

Fiesta engine
Fabia engine x2 and fuel circuit

[RS]

Homologation jokers:
Fabia engine x2 and fuel circuit

Latter related to fires?

[br21]

Homologation jokers:

Fiesta engine
Fabia engine x2 and fuel circuit

Fiesta has few Jokers already, some related to engine, some to drivetrain, suspension, steering, aero, etc.

[Mirek]

It's in Czech but quite interesting article based on ewrc-results database regarding R5 cars statistics. Likely not 100% but in the amount of data it can be fairly accurate. https://www.ewrc.cz/clanek/31611-f-f-nadale-etalony-spolehlivosti/

Particularly interesting for me is percentage of retirements from technical reasons:
Fabia 7,18%, Fiesta 9,84%, 208 15,91%, i20 17,11%, DS3 18,31%, Mirage 27,27%

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Aren't these retirement stats for the R5 Fiesta going to be biased against it as it was the earliest R5 ?

Of the total number in use, many Fiesta's are going to be older cars and have done more mileage and events.

They were also cheaper to buy originally.

[Mirek]

Aren't these retirement stats for the R5 Fiesta going to be biased against it as it was the earliest R5 ?

Of the total number in use, many Fiesta's are going to be older cars and have done more mileage and events.

They were also cheaper to buy originally.

I mentioned only stats for 2017. Fiesta had pretty good numbers (not that good in 2014 when it was new).

I don't think that the age of the rally car makes it worse in relation to reliability. That is more about particular team preparation and maintenance and I think that we can assume that all cars get in average similar maintenance. How old is the bodyshell is imho not very important (see Loeb's Xsara WRC stats).

On the other hand we may ask whether older cars actually aren't generally more reliable because their technical solutions are proven. The new cars often tend to be unreliable because some issues are very hard to find and solve during testing.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I mentioned only stats for 2017. Fiesta had pretty good numbers (not that good in 2014 when it was new).

I don't think that the age of the rally car makes it worse in relation to reliability. That is more about particular team preparation and maintenance and I think that we can assume that all cars get in average similar maintenance. How old is the bodyshell is imho not very important (see Loeb's Xsara WRC stats).

On the other hand we may ask whether older cars actually aren't generally more reliable because their technical solutions are proven. The new cars often tend to be unreliable because some issues are very hard to find and solve during testing.

The older cars were still being driven in 2017 though. Plus they would be getting cheaper and into the hands of smaller, less well financed teams. IMO such stats prove nothing.

[Mirek]

The older cars were still being driven in 2017 though. Plus they would be getting cheaper and into the hands of smaller, less well financed teams. IMO such stats prove nothing.

I don't know what You're trying to say. Old bodyshell means nothing. Fiesta R5 has much better reliability stats in 2017 then it had in 2014 so what's Your point? Both Fiesta and Fabia reliability stats show that the cars became more reliable with every following year, i.e. they had the worst reliability when they were new and since then they become gradually better and that is perfectly logical.

By the way Loeb used to drive 4-5 years old bodyshells of Xsara WRC and it didn't stop him from winning WRC titles.

[nafpaktos]

he is msport fan so.....

[Mirek]

he is msport fan so.....

What's wrong with M-Sport stats there? They are pretty good, aren't they?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Mirek you started highlighting the stats on reliability... what were You trying to say ?

I dont suppose it's because they favoured Škoda...

[electroliquid]

Mirek you started highlighting the stats on reliability... what were You trying to say ?

I dont suppose it's because they favoured Škoda...

I don't understand why you seem surprised about these stats? Škoda is a bit better than Ford (quite small margin), everyone know PSA R5 is (at least was) rubbish, I20 relatively new car with possibly not eliminated defects, and Mirage is garage made rally car; everything is true, and reflects in those stats. Old bodyshell is irrelevant - it's all about maintaining car, replacing parts, and how driver using it.

[Mirek]

Mirek you started highlighting the stats on reliability... what were You trying to say ?

I dont suppose it's because they favoured Škoda...


I have posted an article with an analysis based on very large amount of data which us fans don't have. I am not author of the analysis (neither have I any sort of relation to the author or ewrc server) and I don't claim anything besides what is described in the article. It's You who came with a statement which is in direct contradiction with recorded stats therefore it's up to You to back up Your claims (i.e. that older cars become less reliable while the recorded trend shows exactly opposite).

I haven't posted this article because I like Škoda (I like M-Sport too and FYI I worked for years on Ford vehicle development). Yes, it shows Škoda as the most reliable but I think that it's hardly a surprise for anyone. Maybe the fact that M-Sport was on near same numbers is more of a surprise especially considering that M-Sport is much cheaper. M-Sport also has better customer support.

[Rally Power]

It’s never too much to praise and thank eWRC guys for their fantastic work (as long as they keep the site free ;)), but for them or any other people gathering rally data it may not be easy to establish retirements real causes, as those aren’t always reported by the teams or the organizers.

If a driver destroys a suspension (for example hitting a rock or a tree) and retires, how many times that kind of retirement is classified as 'technical' (mechanical faillure) and not as 'accident' (driver mistake)? Otherwise, a driver can go off the road and even roll due to a brake failure and no technical problem is indicated as the accident cause. On a recent CNR rally, former champ Moura got 2 punctures and retired, after a deep corner cut; somehow the retirement cause appears as ‘mechanical’.

That’s why we should take these reliability stats in a light way.

[Mirek]

Yes, that is for sure a concern but logically this kind of mistake is from its nature global, i.e. it shall not depend on vehicle type. It means that there is for sure a certain error in the stats but this error shall be statistically same for all cars.

You don't need to go after tenths of percent to see that the cars are basically in three largely different groups. First most reliable one is Fabia and Fiesta. Second much worse is PSA cars and i20 and the third worst one is represented by the only private car Mirage. The differences between the groups are so big that few mistakenly reported retirements don't change anything.

I think that it all corresponds with the generally knows stuff, i.e. Škoda and M-Sport put a lot of effort into R5 because it's very important for them. Hyundai R5 seemed to be always a bit of side-project with lower importance. PSA cars are known for many design flaws which were partially fixed in time but many still remain and finally the Mirage as a private project suffers from the same problems as all other similar ones before.

[br21]

Anyway it's interesting statistic and thanx for sharing it! Even if there are some questions about data from ewrc for sure final results are quite logical, understandable and like expected, so error margin in those stats is small.

[kure91]

As a guy who wrote that eWRC article, I can assure you, that I´m not so big fan of Skoda, my most favourite drivers usualy drive some different machinery, usually from M-Sport :) So, no Skoda bias. And I am aware of limitations of data, it was written in the beggining of text, that I counted as crash only those retirement which were labeled as "accident" or "accident damage", so i would suppose, that in real, number of retirement related with accident would be even bigger. Last but not leas, I´m happy, that you like it even if it was in Czech

[Rally Power]

As a guy who wrote that eWRC article, I can assure you, that I´m not so big fan of Skoda, my most favourite drivers usualy drive some different machinery, usually from M-Sport :) So, no Skoda bias. And I am aware of limitations of data, it was written in the beggining of text, that I counted as crash only those retirement which were labeled as "accident" or "accident damage", so i would suppose, that in real, number of retirement related with accident would be even bigger. Last but not leas, I´m happy, that you like it even if it was in Czech

No matter the way we tend to analyze the data, the article is indeed quite interesting and you and your partners at eWRC deserve huge congratulations. Keep up the good work!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

As a guy who wrote that eWRC article, I can assure you, that I´m not so big fan of Skoda, my most favourite drivers usualy drive some different machinery, usually from M-Sport :) So, no Skoda bias. And I am aware of limitations of data, it was written in the beggining of text, that I counted as crash only those retirement which were labeled as "accident" or "accident damage", so i would suppose, that in real, number of retirement related with accident would be even bigger. Last but not leas, I´m happy, that you like it even if it was in Czech

I didnt suggest any Skoda bias by eWRC, I was just wondering why only the part on reliability was highlighted here by a Czech...

The M-Sport Fiesta R5 is a huge success in every way and no interpretation of statistics can show otherwise.

[tommeke_B]

I didnt suggest any Skoda bias by eWRC, I was just wondering why only the part on reliability was highlighted here by a Czech...

The M-Sport Fiesta R5 is a huge success in every way and no interpretation of statistics can show otherwise.
Where are you trying to go with this? Nobody said anything negative about M-Sport here. But you are "bullshitting" because they aren't on top in some interesting but unimportant statistics. If one person is biased, I know who it is... ;)

[focus206]

I didnt suggest any Skoda bias by eWRC, I was just wondering why only the part on reliability was highlighted here by a Czech...

The M-Sport Fiesta R5 is a huge success in every way and no interpretation of statistics can show otherwise.

Quite funny suggestion, coming from you... guess Mirek didn't praise M-Sport and British drivers enough in his simply reporting statistics.

[Andre Oliveira]

I didnt suggest any Skoda bias by eWRC, I was just wondering why only the part on reliability was highlighted here by a Czech...

The M-Sport Fiesta R5 is a huge success in every way and no interpretation of statistics can show otherwise.

I am huge fan of M-Sport and eWRC-results.com member and i garantee all are done with most accurrate possible ;)

[nafpaktos]

As a guy who wrote that eWRC article, I can assure you, that I´m not so big fan of Skoda, my most favourite drivers usualy drive some different machinery, usually from M-Sport :) So, no Skoda bias. And I am aware of limitations of data, it was written in the beggining of text, that I counted as crash only those retirement which were labeled as "accident" or "accident damage", so i would suppose, that in real, number of retirement related with accident would be even bigger. Last but not leas, I´m happy, that you like it even if it was in Czech
thanks lot but if it possible next time write in english.we are more no Czechs than Czechs that read the erwc and this forum!!!

[janvanvurpa]

thanks lot but if it possible next time write in english.we are more no Czechs than Czechs that read the erwc and this forum!!!

And the automatic translations make it sound like the author is too fond of the greatest Czech product......:beer:

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/volkswagenin-uusi-rallitykki-kay-kaupaksi/ (in Finnish)

All 15-18 Polo R5's that will be built this year are already sold. Next year they plan to build 40-50 cars.

[Sulland]

In english
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallit.fi%2Fvolkswagenin-uusi-rallitykki-kay-kaupaksi%2F&edit-text=

[electroliquid]

https://www.rallit.fi/volkswagenin-uusi-rallitykki-kay-kaupaksi/ (in Finnish)

All 15-18 Polo R5's that will be built this year are already sold. Next year they plan to build 40-50 cars.

It's relatively small numbers, I think; for example Škoda's 70th chassis started in Rally Portugal 2016 - one year after homologation. In two years (1 and half actually) they build around 100 cars (based on ewrc-results stats). And (I believe Mirek mentioned that) Škoda's facilities are quite small. VW has WRC program, so they should have enough room to build more cars, also to find customers shouldn't be problem, as ~18 cars already sold before homologation.

[Mirek]

It's not only about building the cars. You need to have enough parts to build them from (they are often from small specialized companies with limited production capacity). You need to have enough testing capacities, enough spare parts for customers and You need to be able to provide aftersale services for the customers. The whole machine needs some time to get in shape.

[br21]

They don't push with sales, they choose the teams to which they will sell their 2018 cars

[electroliquid]

They don't push with sales, they choose the teams to which they will sell their 2018 cars

Do you know criteria they use to choose customers?

[br21]

Do you know criteria they use to choose customers?

Their own choice, but in general bigger teams, with some history, etc, most likely for some good drivers, also teams which will cooperate with them close, use engineer from VW, etc

[WUff1]

Their own choice, but in general bigger teams, with some history, etc, most likely for some good drivers, also teams which will cooperate with them close, use engineer from VW, etc

For sure BRR Racing of Raimund Baumschlager - he´s already tested the Polo R5.

[mousti]

BMA already declared they will have 2 or 3 this year. We will see if it really happens..

[br21]

Yeah, in Belgium DG Sport also should have one, and Citroën probably also

[PLuto]

I think their priority will be teams close to local dealers. I know there is really big interest in Polo R5, almost everybody wants to have it and there are big fights "behind the scene" to have it...

[dupanton]

Yeah, in Belgium DG Sport also should have one, and Citroën probably also

DG Sport seems odd to me, because they work together with Peugeot Belgium since a couple of years. They run the official Peugeot Belgium program.

[Adler]

They are testing the Polo in Austria now for the next 3 days on tarmac (wet/ice), rumoured Drivers are Tidemand, Baumschlager and Depping.

[electroliquid]

I think their priority will be teams close to local dealers. I know there is really big interest in Polo R5, almost everybody wants to have it and there are big fights "behind the scene" to have it...

I hope that true; Multiple times Lithuania champion Vytautas Švedas has Lithuania's VW, Audi, Seat dealers backing and hoping eventually he will drive Polo R5 to rally stages.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

BRC NEWS: The Proton Iriz is due to be homologated by the start of April #BRC https://t.co/LDmRU7sSf4

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/int/galerien/2018/test-vw-polo-r5/

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/45/72/VW-Polo-R5-Test-Austria-006_457272_5a5ce757d.jpg
https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/45/72/VW-Polo-R5-Test-Austria-007_457254_5a5ce756e.jpg
https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/45/72/VW-Polo-R5-Test-Austria-010_457270_5a5ce757b.jpg

[Andre Oliveira]

Bonato by Seb2Rallye: https://youtu.be/7E-hi4WbKD0

[RICARDO75]

Polo R5 video test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgCxQSKppXk&t=62s

[Andre Oliveira]

Bonato day 2 by Seb2Rallye: https://youtu.be/NzXvQuRnB08

[Andre Oliveira]

Lefebvre by Seb2Rallye: https://youtu.be/tCmuU4oEYiU

[sete]

Lefebvre by Seb2Rallye: https://youtu.be/tCmuU4oEYiU

Did I see a Fabia R5 in the background in 0:25 ?

[mousti]

Did I see a Fabia R5 in the background in 0:25 ?Looks a bit like that yeah

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

[Mirek]

Everybody compares internally their cars with competitors and use their design for inspiration ;)

[RS]

Did I see a Fabia R5 in the background in 0:25 ?

What a strange coincidence ;)

[Andre Oliveira]

Rendina's stolled car appeared it seems, pic by Giannis Raptis

https://scontent.fopo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26814985_10212204208915200_6380449588161272694_n.j pg?oh=06bfc0e340143b67ad33289060155aa1&oe=5AE8E46E

[Francis44]

Holy shit, surely some parts are traceable.

[Sulland]

What are your expectations of the C3 R5, compared to the top two, on both surfaces?

[TWRC]

What are your expectations of the C3 R5, compared to the top two, on both surfaces?
Well, I'd expect it to be on par with the Fabia. As far as the Fiesta goes, it is the oldest R5 car, and so I think they have already reached its potential so to speak. Hopefully they've learnt from their mistakes in the C3 WRC development and the old PSA R5s as well. It was good to see many various drivers to test it, even though I would have liked some more experienced ones, like Bouffier or Sarrazin, hell, even Loeb, to get a test with it as well. So all in all, hopefully it is a good car, and many will be on the stages challenging for wins and titles.

[Mirek]

I'm not so optimistic like You for several reasons.

1) Although the base EP6 engine went meanwhile through some serious development it still brings some cons compared to the direct opponents. It has narrow pistons and small space for valves, overall non-ideal bore-stroke ratio and likely less robust block.

2) We can see that even the higher-priority project, i.e. C3 WRC suffers from many problems.

For sure I believe that C3 will be a step forward from DS3 or 208 but I don't believe that it's going to be a car to beat.

[Sulland]

Could PSA use the Opel A16SHT engine, that is in the Astra, now that they have that one inside their umbrella?
Guess it is too late now, but could they re homologate with new block later?

[Mirek]

No, unless they use the engine in some Citroën model. Also in my opinion the two litre turbo from Astra OPC would be a better base.

[RS]

Holy shit, surely some parts are traceable.

Hmm, yes, is there much of a black market for Fabia R5 parts?

[electroliquid]

No, unless they use the engine in some Citroën model. Also in my opinion the two litre turbo from Astra OPC would be a better base.

Well that engine from OPC is very powerful, downsized it still could be powerful and reliable. Wonder what engine Holzer used in Opel R5.

[Mirek]

Well that engine from OPC is very powerful, downsized it still could be powerful and reliable. Wonder what engine Holzer used in Opel R5.

it has also 86 mm bore, same as Mitsubishi 4B11/Hyundai Theta which is a basis for very good Hyundai R5 engine. M-sport has 83 mm, Škoda has 82,5 mm, PSA EP6 has only 77 mm.

[Hartusvuori]

First 15 Polo R5s goes to
- 3x Baumschlager in Austria
- 3x Paraguy to Miguel Carrizosa/DIESA S.A., a Volkswagen importer
- 2x BMA in Belgium
- 2x Printsport Oy, Finland
- 2x HK Racing team in Italy
- 1x THX Racing in Belgium
- 1x Kristoffersson Motorsport
- 1x to Portugal

[Mirek]

- 1x to Portugal

Pedro Meireles?

[Hartusvuori]

VW newsletter didn't mention to who in Portugal. All other customers were named.

[TheFlyingTuga]

Pedro Meireles?

A Racing Team by the name of Team Novadriver also mentioned that they were looking into rallying with the Polo

Cheers

[mousti]

2 for HK, means 2 for DMax Racing? Almost sure that's another branch of them? Like Thx is of DG Sport and SXM of JMotorsport.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

[tc10a]

First 15 Polo R5s goes to
- 3x Baumschlager in Austria

With Raimund Baumschlager being also one of the main test drivers, BRR is going to be the prime customer team again - They will have already lots of experience with the car straight from the beginning.

[Rallyper]

Johan Kristoffersson in Polo R5 will be interesting. He has big potential.

[pucky54]

Johan Kristoffersson in Polo R5 will be interesting. He has big potential.

Who says that Johan will drive the car? It looks more likely it will be for Veiby, whos dad is co-owner of KMS

[Sulland]

KMS will use more than one driver to get the best development data back to VW. Printsport also has a good relationship with EVEN Management, so lets see who will drive where!

EVEN stregthen the KMS rally know how:
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fparcferme.no%2Fnyheter%2Fflytter-rallyvirksomheten-norge-satser-tyngre-populaer-r5-bil%2F

[Tomvwb]

it has also 86 mm bore, same as Mitsubishi 4B11/Hyundai Theta which is a basis for very good Hyundai R5 engine. M-sport has 83 mm, Škoda has 82,5 mm, PSA EP6 has only 77 mm.

I think that the engine performance need to be judged on the complete engine package, not on ''the bore''. The intake, exhaust, turbo, cooling... are from such a great importance to have it all optimised for that engine.
Citroen decided to stay with that engine so they must be conviced that it will be possible to have a good performing engine.

[Mirek]

I think that the engine performance need to be judged on the complete engine package, not on ''the bore''. The intake, exhaust, turbo, cooling... are from such a great importance to have it all optimised for that engine.
Citroen decided to stay with that engine so they must be conviced that it will be possible to have a good performing engine.

The parameter while of course not the only one is important because the narrow space in PSA engine limits the size of valves.

The reason why they stay with it is simple - they don't have any other choice.

[pantealex]

Who says that Johan will drive the car? It looks more likely it will be for Veiby, whos dad is co-owner of KMS

I would say Tidemand (he is EVEN driver), because there will not be factory cars Tidemand must use private car.

[Rallyper]

Who says that Johan will drive the car? It looks more likely it will be for Veiby, whos dad is co-owner of KMS

My first spontanious impression. And we all know his potential. Never said the car is especial for him, only interesting seeing him drive the car in rallies. Let´s wait and see.

[electroliquid]

I think that the engine performance need to be judged on the complete engine package, not on ''the bore''. The intake, exhaust, turbo, cooling... are from such a great importance to have it all optimised for that engine.
Citroen decided to stay with that engine so they must be conviced that it will be possible to have a good performing engine.

The intake, exhaust, turbo, cooling etc. are replaceable parts, it could be optimized as needed, but engine block is main part, part where you start. if you get "wrong" block, you can optimize it whatever you want - it still be worse engine. Also decisions can be wrong.

[dimviii]

Ryan Champion

The @vwrallytheworld R5 Polo testing today past the @BelowZeroIce lake in the hands of @GronholmM...

[Sulland]

It will be a while until KMS gets their hands on a Polo R5.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fkms-racing.com%2Fnyheter%2Fnyhetsartiklar%2Fkms-satsar-p-rally.html

[dimviii]

Petter Solberg RX
Well that was a fun Friday! It was fantastic to be back behind the wheel of a rally car and working with @volkswagenms on the new Polo R5 today

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent.fopo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27332378_10156356027562922_5153802361021332082_n.j pg?oh=70725537c8e1e86bd60c8cc99ca2fb29&oe=5AE74EE7
https://scontent.fopo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26993668_10156356027597922_4349255741589337876_n.j pg?oh=cd28248fbfb65f853bd82ebfa51dc722&oe=5AF4A29D
https://scontent.fopo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27337161_10156356027687922_4966303205994510855_n.j pg?oh=187bc821d86156b44d0af84a302d2743&oe=5B21A424

[Sulland]

Any videos of Petter testing?
Edit: forund a short one https://www.facebook.com/PetterSolbergWRX/videos/10156359397572922/
Who was in the right seat?
edit: Veronica Engan.

guess we will see the testcar on ewrc next week.

[Sub_Skoda]

Interview about Proton Iriz R5 :

https://www.lemagsportauto.com/rallye-interview-doliver-mellors-au-sujet-de-la-proton-iriz-r5/29570/

[the sniper]

Interview about Proton Iriz R5 :

https://www.lemagsportauto.com/rallye-interview-doliver-mellors-au-sujet-de-la-proton-iriz-r5/29570/

With an English translation at the bottom of the page. Thanks!

[Rally Power]

Off topic, but a bit like R5 in rally, TCR is becoming a successful racing category worldwide; they’re now replacing WTCC cars (WRC racing ‘cousins’) in FIA touring car major series. It may be interesting look on TCR upgrading effects (to get an idea of what could happen to R5 as WRC top class).

Besides, some rally teams are also involved in WTCR: BRC (the team rallying Basso and Campedelli R5’s), will run the i30 developed by Hyundai motorsport; DG Sport (De Mevius and Abbring previous rally team) will enter a 308 developed by Peugeot Sport; Sebastian Loeb Racing are getting 2 Golf TCR, straight from VW Motorsport (surprisingly they didn’t choose the 308); the team behind the Giulietta is Romeo Ferraris (used to rally ACI Sport 208’s in WRC3) and Top Run also developed a Impreza TCR (although they’re not expected to enter WTCR). Lots of info here: www.touringcartimes.com/category/wtcr/

[liposh]

In my opinion touring car for circuit racing should look like DTM or better. :) I remember all those touring car series in Brno back in my childhood in 90´s and it was so incredibly boring to spectate. That´s why I chose rally ;)

[Rally Power]

That´s why I chose rally ;)

Excellent choice!

[CWJ]

Any changes / jokers left for 2018 season @ Peugeot 208 T16 R5 ?

[ESTR]

They announce a little back that they will produce evo2 of that car if I'm correct

[CWJ]

Some Teams already call kit 2017 with hydraulic power steering pump upgrade and Evo map 2017 as Evo 2 ... will see. Any info?

[Mirek]

According to the info from ewrc the new Fabia R5 engine (afaik scheduled for April homologation) features roughly 5 kW (7 Hp) extra power, it shall be lighter, more durable and resistant to shocks and the rebuild period is reasonably prolonged from 2000 to 3000 km.

[TWRC]

Some Teams already call kit 2017 with hydraulic power steering pump upgrade and Evo map 2017 as Evo 2 ... will see. Any info?
Maybe br21 has more info on that, but I think new 208 road car will be presented later this year, and Famin said a year ago that they intend to do an R5 car from it, so if that's still the plan, I can't really see any major upgrade this year for the old car.

[electroliquid]

...but I think new 208 road car will be presented later this year, and Famin said a year ago that they intend to do an R5 car from it, so if that's still the plan, I can't really see any major upgrade this year for the old car.

Why not, testing upgraded version in old body, and then put into new one, and start developing 2gen 208 from more advanced level.

[ToughMac]

Why not, testing upgraded version in old body, and then put into new one, and start developing 2gen 208 from more advanced level.

I think they are already doing that, they are calling it a Citroen C3 R5 ��.

[br21]

C3 R5 has basically nothing in common with DS3/208. From main components electronics supplier is the same, different transmission, different dampers, etc. From what I know for DS3/208 no upgrades planned. That evo2 kit with again hydraulic power steering is quite OK now, and they focus on C3, they plan to run two or three cars on Corsica.
I heard the same info about engine of Fabia, so some step forward.

[Sulland]

Not sure if it mentioned here, but Jaeger/ Mikkelsen will drive a i20 R5 in Numedalsrally, Norway 24 feb.

Jaeger will drive, and Mikkelsen read notes!!! :monkeedan

I hope that Hyundai Norway have bought a car, to be used here locally!

[PLuto]

Not sure if it mentioned here, but Jaeger/ Mikkelsen will drive a i20 R5 in Numedalsrally, Norway 24 feb.

Jaeger will drive, and Mikkelsen read notes!!! :monkeedan

I hope that Hyundai Norway have bought a car, to be used here locally!

I think that this info should be posted more in thread European National Rallying.

[RS]

C3 R5 has basically nothing in common with DS3/208

I think ToughMac meant the mechanicals from C3 R5 might find their way into a new Peugeot (209?) R5.

[ToughMac]

I think ToughMac meant the mechanicals from C3 R5 might find their way into a new Peugeot (209?) R5.

Yep thats what I meant, I could be wrong but are the DS3 R5 and the first generation of the 208 R5 basically mechanically the same only in different bodyshells? I would also expect 'V.A.G' to do the same with the Polo R5 and the next generation of Fabia R5, it keeps the costs down even though it does take from the individuality of the different cars.

[RS]

Yep thats what I meant, I could be wrong but are the DS3 R5 and the first generation of the 208 R5 basically mechanically the same only in different bodyshells? I would also expect 'V.A.G' to do the same with the Polo R5 and the next generation of Fabia R5, it keeps the costs down even though it does take from the individuality of the different cars.

Yes to the former.

I think the Polo probably shares a lot from the current Fabia R5 (they already said they worked together on the engine). Not sure there will be a next generation Fabia R5, they might be busy with other stuff..

[Tarmop]

Same Chinese engine for VAG, not much to choose from. Probably more similarities also, but different platforms, 208/DS3 are exactly the same platforms.

[Mirek]

The engines of Fabia R5 and Polo R5 shall be same, not only the basis but near completely same (for sure exhaust must be different due to different platforms).

[Jarek Z]

Description of the changes that have been made in Hyundai i20 R5 as "the final joker" can be found here:
https://www.fiaerc.com/enhanced-hyundai-i20-r5-for-erc-action/

There will be at least 2 Hyundais in Azores Rally and further 2 in Rally de Canarias, with good drivers, so it will be possible to see if the changes are effective.

[Rally Power]

I think ToughMac meant the mechanicals from C3 R5 might find their way into a new Peugeot (209?) R5.

Apparently, Peugeot has finished their models sequence on the number 8. 208 will be replaced by a brand new...208. Probably it'll be launched only in Geneva 2019; same platform of the C3 and the future Corsa (2020); all getting R5 versions, similar to the C3.

[Jarek Z]

The Proton Iriz R5 took another victory today in the hands of Ollie Mellors at the Cambrian Rally first round of the 2018 BTRDA national championship. He beat a quality field including 1.6 and 2.0 WRC cars and several other R5 machines.

Some cool videos from this rally can be found here. Nice stages!
http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/zwyciestwo-iriza-r5,82879

[the sniper]

Some cool videos from this rally can be found here. Nice stages!
http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/zwyciestwo-iriza-r5,82879

These are the kind of stages that will seemingly be used for one of the full days of Rally GB this year. They're in North Wales, nearer the service park.

[Rally Power]

The Proton Iriz R5 took another victory today in the hands of Ollie Mellors at the Cambrian Rally first round of the 2018 BTRDA national championship. He beat a quality field including 1.6 and 2.0 WRC cars and several other R5 machines.

Short video from the Iriz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrlLZP7gmrk

[dimviii]

Mäkinen plans to outsource the new customer sports activities, much like M-Sport with its branch in Poland. "Here in Finland we focus on the World Rally Cars. We want to do the R5 activities from Estonia, "said the 53-year-old.
A timetable for implementation already exists. "If everything goes according to plan we could start with the design in the autumn and with the development of a Yaris R5 in the spring," says Mäkinen, who relies on an old acquaintance in the development. "Juho Hänninen would be a good test driver."
Takamoto Katsuta is unlikely to enjoy the new Yaris R5. He should already be sitting in the Yaris WRC next year. Just in time for the comeback of the Rally Japan in the World Cup. That should fuel the revived rallying excitement in the Land of the Rising Sun even further.
https://translate.google.fi/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-magazin.de%2Fwrc%2Fartikel%2Fd%2F2018%2F02%2F22%2F toyota-yaris-r5-soll-ab-2020-einsatzbereit-sein%2F&edit-text=

[steve.mandzij]

Mäkinen plans to outsource the new customer sports activities, much like M-Sport with its branch in Poland. "Here in Finland we focus on the World Rally Cars. We want to do the R5 activities from Estonia, "said the 53-year-old.
A timetable for implementation already exists. "If everything goes according to plan we could start with the design in the autumn and with the development of a Yaris R5 in the spring," says Mäkinen, who relies on an old acquaintance in the development. "Juho Hänninen would be a good test driver."
Takamoto Katsuta is unlikely to enjoy the new Yaris R5. He should already be sitting in the Yaris WRC next year. Just in time for the comeback of the Rally Japan in the World Cup. That should fuel the revived rallying excitement in the Land of the Rising Sun even further.
https://translate.google.fi/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-magazin.de%2Fwrc%2Fartikel%2Fd%2F2018%2F02%2F22%2F toyota-yaris-r5-soll-ab-2020-einsatzbereit-sein%2F&edit-text=Yaris for Katsuta? At who's expense?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[PLuto]

Yaris for Katsuta? At who's expense?

Toyota :)

[steve.mandzij]

Toyota :)Fair enough :)

I meant, who'd have to make way for him? Lappi, Latvala, Tanak or a fourth car?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[electroliquid]

Fair enough :)

I meant, who'd have to make way for him? Lappi, Latvala, Tanak or a fourth car?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

It could depend on Latvala's performance this year. Other two very fast and still improving, and hard to believe that Toyota could sack them.

[Andre Oliveira]

2 days Pontus Tidemand / Jonas Andersson more 2 days Raymond Baumschlagger / Thomas Zeltner in south of Portugal. Finished today

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWwdSd-X4AEUVLY?format=jpg&name=large

[steve.mandzij]

It could depend on Latvala's performance this year. Other two very fast and still improving, and hard to believe that Toyota could sack them.I don't want to believe :(

I think Latvala will carry on until he hangs up his gloves or Toyota leaves, similarly to Solberg. There's no space for Katsuta in the main team yet.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[Andre Oliveira]

Clip of Polo GTI R5: https://www.ewrc-results.com/video/24996-volkswagen-polo-gti-r5-testing-in-portugal/

[dimviii]

Lefebvre testing

https://scontent.fbru3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28472178_1793313557385447_6250759912446926674_n.jp g?oh=61eea0826f51b711ed414a1ac2816340&oe=5B4D82D9

https://scontent.fath3-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28576321_1793313254052144_5735221227513890136_n.jp g?oh=41c804dc9250cdfc8ebefc18f5e23ccf&oe=5B4B7109
https://scontent.fath3-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28576241_1793313617385441_4418479508630240571_n.jp g?oh=4b6aef7656859ef69a1fc281f77de743&oe=5B3F687A

more
https://www.facebook.com/pg/PhotosRallyeCorse/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1793312970718839

[dimviii]

day 2 Lefebvre testing the c3 r5

https://scontent.fath3-4.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28576049_1794443713939098_2544872299616693317_n.jp g?oh=cd9460192d8eb8b67a8933ff494f002a&oe=5B4B60A8
https://scontent.fath3-4.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28684813_1794445243938945_7995130513381504788_n.jp g?oh=2736da612f78c2389df5c4b954b38620&oe=5B486618
https://scontent.fath3-4.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28782944_1794444207272382_5855632678363925916_n.jp g?oh=c7c0ca82c8273bf8dbaab15c9fa26b1f&oe=5B3B8239

https://www.facebook.com/pg/PhotosRallyeCorse/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1794443543939115

[TWRC]

day 2 Lefebvre testing the c3 r5

https://scontent.fath3-4.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28576049_1794443713939098_2544872299616693317_n.jp g?oh=cd9460192d8eb8b67a8933ff494f002a&oe=5B4B60A8
https://scontent.fath3-4.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28684813_1794445243938945_7995130513381504788_n.jp g?oh=2736da612f78c2389df5c4b954b38620&oe=5B486618
https://scontent.fath3-4.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28782944_1794444207272382_5855632678363925916_n.jp g?oh=c7c0ca82c8273bf8dbaab15c9fa26b1f&oe=5B3B8239

https://www.facebook.com/pg/PhotosRallyeCorse/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1794443543939115
Video by Seb 2Rallye: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyqLJUoz6lA

[Andre Oliveira]

260

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXr1ZYuX4AECO4T?format=jpg&name=900x900

[RS]

Shame the C3 lost the loud/agressive sound of the DS3/208.

Not too convinced by the test videos so far but maybe it will surprise us.