Rally2 (ex-R5) News

[Neige]

Lithuania gived green litght to swedish Mirage R5 in 2017 season.

[pantealex]

#113 Fabia R5 to Hannu´s Rally Team (Finland) their 3rd Fabia R5.

[RS]

113 Fabias built now?

Are Skoda Motorsport building these all themselves? I think R5 rules allow these cars to be sold in kit form but I don't think Skoda do that?

[Mirek]

Only PSA sells R5 cars as a kit and that's likely one of the reasons why their cars are generally less reliable.

[br21]

Only PSA sells R5 cars as a kit and that's likely one of the reasons why their cars are generally less reliable.

I know someone whoo bought Fiesta in parts, but that's usually not likely to happen very often.:)

[Jarek Z]

Numerous successes of Skoda Fabia R5:
https://www.facebook.com/SkodaRallyTeamHungaria/photos/a.177849692238685.40124.106847442672244/1349887251701584/?type=3&theater

[Sulland]

If you were to buy a R5 to start a campaign national, regional or in WRC2.

What are the pros and cons of the two top-cars Ford and Skoda?
Where lies their stregths and weaknesses on both surfaces?

[Mirek]

Already answered many times, for example here: http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?28327-R5-News&p=1115778&viewfull=1#post1115778

[dimviii]

ŠKODA Motorsport ‏@MotorsportSkoda 28m
28 minutes ago

The 100th #SKODA FABIA R5 has been delivered to customer @ErikWevers. The handover marked another milestone 4 the successful @skodafabiar5

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1OufYzWgAA6FI_.jpg

[dimviii]

wtf? also 2C has announced that they purchased chassis No 100

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1O6HiGXUAE309h.jpg:large

[Andre Oliveira]

Yeah, someone made a big mistake ;)

[Mirek]

No, there is no mistake at all. The car of Wevers is 100th car delivered to the customer, not 100th produced. You have to count also cars from works team both competitive and test ones.

[liposh]

I was counting a little bit and this car for Wevers should be either chassis No. 118 or 119. I used more sources than just numbers on the top of page at ewrc-results database, so I should be quite accurate.

[Mirek]

Spare bodyshells may not be counted in the car delivereis as well as those were not complete cars.

[liposh]

of course ;)

[Andre Oliveira]

Fabia R5 #117 to Kees Burger

[Sulland]

Any updates to the ds3 for 2017?
read somewhere, think it was Berquist saying that they had some upgrades for this season.

has details been published?

[br21]

nothing, and I don't expect anything special if they will focus on development of C3 R5.

[TWRC]

Any updates to the ds3 for 2017?
read somewhere, think it was Berquist saying that they had some upgrades for this season.

has details been published?
I think it will be a fix for the most nagging problems so they can get through the season relatively problem-free, but nothing more than that with a new car on the way.

[Andre Oliveira]

Chassis 162 to Henk Vossen, will contest MC. Pic by RTL

https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/15894994_1474457569273474_2649399944680497468_n.jp g?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=5f57ded22b5d6511114fc3c0b0c33ca9&oe=58E9859C

[Mirek]

How old is Henk now? He has been around since forever.

[EightGear]

How old is Henk now? He has been around since forever.
71.

[Jarek Z]

Is he still good? Or is it typical gentleman driving?

[Wim_Impreza]

Considering his age, his driving is not bad but of course he is not that fast anymore. http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=439

[bf1_IRL]

Hi folks,

Does anyone have info on the Paraguay / CODASUR Toyota Etios R5?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfID3R8W8AEL3pK.jpg

[Sulland]

How do you rate the Hyundai i20 R5 towards the the Skoda and the Ford?
Will surprize us this season?

[RS]

How do you rate the Hyundai i20 R5 towards the the Skoda and the Ford?
Will surprize us this season?

On GB when he wasn't crashing Abbring was very fast. If he keeps it on the road and Hyundai have cured the reliability problems I think it will be a threat.

[sindroms]

Fiesta R5 for Janis Berkis (LAT) for Latvian rally championship, serviced by "Neiksans Rally Sport". Number plate PX14 HWW

[Andre Oliveira]

Ex kenya

[Andre Oliveira]

Chassis 200, Fiesta R5 EVO2

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C19d81WWEAA15nr?format=jpg&name=large

[sete]

what means EVO2? Its next upgrade then last year Evo version?

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C19sJy4XcAET9_V?format=jpg&name=large

[mousti]

what means EVO2? Its next upgrade then last year Evo version?
I presume yes.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

[Mirek]

I guess that last year's Evo contained only the engine update but not the suspension which was scheduled for later stage.

[RS]

Won't there be a totally new Fiesta R5 based on the new road car soon?

[Mirek]

2018

[dimviii]

http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-r5/m-sport-announce-ford-fiesta-r5-evo2

[Fast Eddie WRC]

http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-r5/m-sport-announce-ford-fiesta-r5-evo2

Great to see M-Sport keeping the newer R5's honest with another Evo of the Fiesta. :)

[RS]

http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-r5/m-sport-announce-ford-fiesta-r5-evo2

More engine upgrades.

Any word on whether Skoda have anything coming? They may need to soon..

[Andre Oliveira]

Camilli car in rear, similar WRC livery

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15940730_1361397517236630_3989320794201897284_n.jp g?oh=01ad9fb94ad00253f23308c13c3e5a0c&oe=5919A4A9

[mousti]

I think end of may the Evo comes out for the Fabia.

[br21]

for the moment this evo2 update will consist only engine upgrade (not needing total engine rebuild, like it was in case of evo update). Camshafts, manifold, etc, with total cost of some 4k GBP.

[RallySport Mag]

Hi there,

Try here: https://issuu.com/hi-techmedia/docs/rallysport_magazine__issue__1__may__f75bf349be7721

[dimviii]

Hyundai Belgium ‏@HyundaiBelgium 3m
3 minutes ago

Great news! On 23 & 24 June, @ThierryNeuville will participate in the @YpresRally in a New Generation Hyundai i20 R5!

[Andre Oliveira]

Two more to Orsak

https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15965088_1515525478477203_94804332660203901_n.jpg? oh=733554009c534a6067a43a3485203dcd&oe=58D86431

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2KVJgWXgAA3M8X.jpg

[Andre Oliveira]

Gilles Nantet, pic by Arnaud Gagliardi

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2Tlzg1XcAAVSNN?format=jpg&name=large

[RS]

Does anyone know some more about the R5 homologation rules? I thought they were quite restrictive but MSport are already preparing a new evo barely a year after the last one.

[Ucci]

Gilles Nantet, pic by Arnaud Gagliardi

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2Tlzg1XcAAVSNN?format=jpg&name=large
Wasn't he driving a Porsche 911 GT3 in rally?

[Ricardo Filipe Matos]

Will the Opel R5 still exist?

[Andre Oliveira]

Wasn't he driving a Porsche 911 GT3 in rally?

Yes ;)

[Jarek Z]

Wasn't he driving a Porsche 911 GT3 in rally?

Yes, he was. And he was quite good. He was able to get into top 10 overall in the French championship.

But it wasn't always easy to drive a Porsche ;)

http://flatsixes.com/cars/911-gt2gt3gt3-rs/insanity-takes-form-rally-prepared-gt2/

[Mirek]

Does anyone know some more about the R5 homologation rules? I thought they were quite restrictive but MSport are already preparing a new evo barely a year after the last one.

Depends what You call an evolution. Everyone has the same fixed number of jokers but of course it sounds nicer if You call every bigger modification a new evolution. Saying "we developped a new evolution" definitely sales better than "we applied two jokers".

[RS]

Depends what You call an evolution. Everyone has the same fixed number of jokers but of course it sounds nicer if You call every bigger modification a new evolution. Saying "we developped a new evolution" definitely sales better than "we applied two jokers".

True.. I also suppose MSport are using all their jokers now if they will have a totally new car next year.

I presume a new Peugeot 209 is not far away either?

[WUff1]

True.. I also suppose MSport are using all their jokers now if they will have a totally new car next year.

I presume a new Peugeot 209 is not far away either?

As far as I remember PSA only will build C3 R5 in the future.

[Ucci]

Yes, he was. And he was quite good. He was able to get into top 10 overall in the French championship.

But it wasn't always easy to drive a Porsche ;)

http://flatsixes.com/cars/911-gt2gt3gt3-rs/insanity-takes-form-rally-prepared-gt2/

If my memory serves me well, he was in 2011 French tarmac champion.....so, no bad for an old fox....

[Sulland]

Will the Opel R5 still exist?

Still no news as I have seen. Pity, Opel/Vauxhall needs a R5 to compete in the big league in national/regional series and WRC2.

[WRC17]

Mini WRC had top speed 202 km/h if I remember right.

Sordo got to 216 /km/h in the C4 so todays WRC cars and R5 must be slower in the top speed, and has any other 2011 - 2016 WRC car got above 200 km/h?

[Mirek]

IMHO the reason why 1.6T cars had lower top speed was the different engine power curve. While the 2.0 cars with huge boost used lower rpm range for maximum effect the 1.6T cars must have the peak power higher. Both cars had same maximum rpm given by the rules therefore I guess that with 2.0 car You had more rpm from the peak to the rpm limiter so You reached higher top speed while in fact Your power was already decreasing (but was still big enough to accelerate).

It's similar like comparing gr.N Evo and S2000. You can reach very big top speed with gr.N car if You have veeeery long straight simply because You still have rpm to use before the limiter. Even though the available power isn't great anymore.

For R5 the main reason for lower top speed is 5-speed gearbox.

[itix]

Still no news as I have seen. Pity, Opel/Vauxhall needs a R5 to compete in the big league in national/regional series and WRC2.
PLuto was stubbornly insisting there was such a project and that there would be such a car, and that was maybe two years ago. I seem to recall that someone even claimed it had tested but we have still not seen anything so even if there were plans I doubt they came to fruition.

[Mirek]

There was some development ongoing but God knows what is the status today.

[WRC17]

IMHO the reason why 1.6T cars had lower top speed was the different engine power curve. While the 2.0 cars with huge boost used lower rpm range for maximum effect the 1.6T cars must have the peak power higher. Both cars had same maximum rpm given by the rules therefore I guess that with 2.0 car You had more rpm from the peak to the rpm limiter so You reached higher top speed while in fact Your power was already decreasing (but was still big enough to accelerate).

It's similar like comparing gr.N Evo and S2000. You can reach very big top speed with gr.N car if You have veeeery long straight simply because You still have rpm to use before the limiter. Even though the available power isn't great anymore.

For R5 the main reason for lower top speed is 5-speed gearbox.

So what would the absolute max speed of a 2011 - 2016 WRC car be and R5 and the other R classes?

[Mirek]

That depends on the engine characteristics and the needs. It's always about finding the compromise between all factors but it's easier with WRC car which have plenty more possible adjustments allowed by the rules. Anyway top speed is not the most important factor of any car and there aren't many roads where it plays a role.

With R classes it is very much limited by the rules. R5 are allowed to have only two options, S2000 had more (don't remember exactly), R2 have only one or two etc.

Typicaly... R5 175-195 km/h, R2 160-190 km/h, S2000 165-195 km/h but except for Škoda usually shorter options are being used.

[kiil]

PLuto was stubbornly insisting there was such a project and that there would be such a car, and that was maybe two years ago. I seem to recall that someone even claimed it had tested but we have still not seen anything so even if there were plans I doubt they came to fruition.

Never say never :-)

[Sulland]

Skoda and PSA react on the evo 2 Fiesta


https://translate.google.no/translate?hl=&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-magazin.de%2Fwm%2Fartikel%2Fd%2F2017%2F01%2F27%2Fk onkurrenz-reagiert-auf-fiesta-update%2F

[Sulland]

Juho Salo has done something right on his 208 T16, it works and he wins. Apart from that it is also the best looking one!

[Jarek Z]

Juho Salo has done something right on his 208 T16, it works and he wins. Apart from that it is also the best looking one!

It's nothing new actually. Salo was doing it right the whole last year when he won the Finnish championship with that car.

[RICARDO75]

But Teemu Asunmaa made a superb last stage and won the rally.

[Rally Power]

First i20 in Portugal for ex Fabia S2000 driver Manuel Castro
https://scontent.fopo1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16174782_1369696116443075_5717953795729503325_n.jp g?oh=1705bdf09c4d80f525c40b512118aa0d&oe=590BA972
Photo: veloso motorsport facebook

[Mirek]

I was off for nearly whole Rallye Monte Carlo. Can somebody shortly described the story behind Abbring's result?

[EightGear]

Some problems on Friday which he managed to fix on stage, but lost about an hour I believe. Then on the second loop he crashed. Saturday and Sunday he was fine I believe.

[mousti]

I was off for nearly whole Rallye Monte Carlo. Can somebody shortly described the story behind Abbring's result?

Crashed (once again) and broke rear suspension. Offcourse besides that he got some good stage times, but overall it's bad IMO.

[PLuto]

I was off for nearly whole Rallye Monte Carlo. Can somebody shortly described the story behind Abbring's result?

I think it is enough to read this summary (https://rally-base.com/crew-profile/crew-detail/?competitionId=417&crewId=33555):

21. 01. 2017 12:13 11 (75 - Abbring Kevin / Wydaeghe Martijn): Front-right puncture 5km before the finish.
20. 01. 2017 16:53 6 retired (75 - Abbring Kevin / Wydaeghe Martijn): accident in SS 6
20. 01. 2017 16:52 6 (75 - Abbring Kevin / Wydaeghe Martijn): broken rear suspension after touching a wall
20. 01. 2017 12:03 3 (75 - Abbring Kevin / Wydaeghe Martijn): was out of road
20. 01. 2017 00:20 2 flash info (75 - Abbring Kevin / Wydaeghe Martijn): My first rally with new co-driver Martijn Wydaeghe. So it will take time to settle in.

[Mirek]

That looks quite disasterous...

[EightGear]

Not all those listed things are incidents though. Two comments are talking about the same situation and the last one is after the first stage where nothing special happened.

[Munkvy]

That looks quite disasterous...

Unfortunately that seems to describe Abbring's career? Seems to be a little too McRae and not enough Sebastian. It's a shame as he seems like he can drive quite fast, just not without hitting things.

[Rallyper]

Has Lukyanuk upgraded Fiesta R5 to Evo version for Sweden?

[liposh]

Do you mean Evo1 or Evo2 kit? ...because Evo2 is not ready yet and nobody knows exactly when it will be ready.

[mousti]

And he has the Evo 1 kit on that Fiesta R5 for a long time.

[br21]

I think most of Fiestas are already evo versions. evo2 should be available mid year but it won't be as big difference as between base and evo.

[pantealex]

How many old type body shells does M-Sport have in store ? About 100 maybe ?
I mean how many new ones they can build ?
Because new Fiesta is totally different and all R2 and R5 needs that old body shells.

[Andre Oliveira]

New R5 bodyshell only in 2018! Need new homologation process

[Mirek]

Yes but that's not Pantalex's point. He meant that while new Fiesta is already on sale M-sport still needs old bodyshells for making their R5.

[Jarek Z]

Two Hyundais I20 R5 were present in the Ronde Val Merula in Italy. One was driven by Elwis Chentre and the other one by Hungarian driver P. Lovasz. Unfortunately none of them won the event. Chentre was second and Lovasz finished in the 22nd position. The rally was won by A. Gino (Ford Fiesta WRC).

Final classification:
http://rally.ficr.it/default.asp?p=Ym9keV9zdGFnZXRpbWVzX2ZpbmFsZS5hc3A/cF9Bbm5vPTIwMTcmcF9Db2RpY2U9OTAmcF9NYW5pZmVzdGF6aW 9uZT0xJnBfR2FyYT0xJnBfUHJvdmFTcGVjaWFsZT00JnBfUXVh bGlmaWNhdG9yZT0mcF9SYWdncnVwcGFtZW50bz1BTEwmcF9DbG Fzc2lmaWNhemlvbmU9MSZwX0dydXBwbz1BTEwmcF9DbGFzc2U9 QUxMJnBfTGluZ3VhPUlUQQ

http://www.rallylinkhost.it/images/igallery/resized/201-300/Chentre_Florean-244-800-600-80.jpg

http://www.rallylinkhost.it/images/igallery/resized/201-300/Lovasz_Kurti__2_-273-800-600-80.jpg

[RICARDO75]

Vitaliy Pushkar is back with Skoda Fabia R5 on Rally Sarma next saturday

[Jarek Z]

Ford Fiesta R5 #201 for EuroOil - Invelt Team and Václav Pech in the Czech rally chamionship:
http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/fiesta-numer-201,73882

[Sulland]

What are the aprox prices for the different R5 cars in 2017 for a privat customer?

[Andre Oliveira]

M-Sport final price 20.000€ cheaper than i20. Told to me by a Hyundai buyer.

[Sulland]

M-Sport final price 20.000€ cheaper than i20. Told to me by a Hyundai buyer.

Is the Hyundai price of € 180 000 + 25 000 for gravel kit still valid?
So that makes Fiesta 160 + 25k, is that about right?
How much for a Fabia today?

[RS]

M-Sport final price 20.000€ cheaper than i20. Told to me by a Hyundai buyer.

Hmm, I know which I'd be buying as things stand.

Flashes of speed from the i20 but no eye catching results so far.

[Mirek]

Fiesta is cheaper than other cars mainly thanks to the recent GBP exchange rate. Since the car is very good and M-Sport offers by far the best service it's definitely a good choice even if Fabia may be a bit faster.

[Rally Power]

Is the Hyundai price of € 180 000 + 25 000 for gravel kit still valid?
So that makes Fiesta 160 + 25k, is that about right?
How much for a Fabia today?

180 was the value announced by Hyundai to the media in order to match FIA 'mandatory' price. It surely costs much more.

It was already said here before: all R5 models are over €200.000; some can reach almost 250.000 in full spec mode.


M-Sport final price 20.000€ cheaper than i20. Told to me by a Hyundai buyer.

Did he also told how much he paied for the i20?

[Andre Oliveira]

i20:

Car 180k base + 55k obligatory extras + 25k gravel kit + extras that could cost between 500 and 25k

[Rally Power]

Nice info André. So, a full spec tarmac i20 can cost € 260.000! FIA regulatory prices are really a joke…

[Mirek]

It looks like PSA is going to take over Opel. In that case I can see very slim chances for R5...

[dodge33cymru]

It looks like PSA is going to take over Opel. In that case I can see very slim chances for R5...
Even as a rebodied 208 / Citroen?

[Rally Power]

Interesting piece (from Nov '16) comparing R5's and 911's costs, based on Sergio Vallejo experience. A new DS3 costed him €250.000, while rebuild (they're used racing units) 911 prices would get to €200.000. Running costs also cheaper with the 911, even if some parts were pretty expensive. Regrettably 911's become redundant in spain main rally series, so their prices should be now a bit lower.
https://www.rallyes.net/gt-vs-r5-cuanto-cuesta-verdad-coche-rallys/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It looks like PSA is going to take over Opel. In that case I can see very slim chances for R5...

In that case I can see very slim chances for Vauxhall, UK. :(

[PLuto]

Interesting piece (from Nov '16) comparing R5's and 911's costs, based on Sergio Vallejo experience. A new DS3 costed him €250.000, while rebuild (they're used racing units) 911 prices would get to €200.000. Running costs also cheaper with the 911, even if some parts were pretty expensive. Regrettably 911's become redundant in spain main rally series, so their prices should be now a bit lower.
https://www.rallyes.net/gt-vs-r5-cuanto-cuesta-verdad-coche-rallys/

I have seen that article and I must say that some prices are quite out of reality.

[AdvEvo]

Maybe but an R5 car for 250.000 euro is no ham sandwich either.

Also the R4 kit is no real replacement for group N cars.

There is no real cost friendly replacement for the group N cars atm.

[Andre Oliveira]

Skoda Motorsport testing in Portugal, Aboboreira and Marão stage day 20, 21 and 22 of february.

Drivers: Pontus Tidemand and Marcus Grönholm

[sete]

Marcus Gronholm testing with Škoda?

[Mirek]

For Polo R5 development?

[rp]

Marcus Gronholm testing with Škoda?

Collecting the data for the new Volkswagen Polo R5...

[Simmi]

Marcus Gronholm testing with Škoda?

Maybe getting an R5 baseline before starting work on the Polo?

[Andre Oliveira]

Yes, for me is the first test of Polo R5 ;)

[Andre Oliveira]

From Baião municipality facebook:

RALI: SKODA CHOOSE BAIÃO FOR TRAINS AND BRINGS "WEIGHT" REINFORCEMENT

The Skoda Motorsport team "parked" in Baião on the 20th, 21st and 22nd of February, to perform trainings with their Fabia R5. The team chose the sections of Aboboreira and Marão to prepare the next World Championship events, in particular the Rally de Portugal, and brings the pilot Pontus Tidemand.

But with him comes a reinforcement of weight: nothing less than the Finnish Marcus Gronholm, World Rally champion in 2000 and 2002. Grönholm will be in Baião with Skoda as a test driver to lend his knowledge and experience in tuning the Vehicles of that team.

The Skoda team consists of 25 members, including mechanics, directors and drivers and will be housed in a hotel unit in Baião.

Skoda is responsible for the safety of the sections and for the contracting of rescue teams / ambulances. It also pays a value for every kilometer of road that we use in our county.

OTHER TEAMS MAY FOLLOW

Although Baião does not receive this year the "queen race" of rallies at national level, sections of our county continue to deserve the attention of the top teams of the sport given the expertise that is required of riders. This is the case of Skoda Motorsport (WRC 2 champion in 2016).

In the coming months other top teams will be able to visit the county to carry out similar trainings.

It is recalled that in the 2017 edition of Rally de Portugal the exits of the classifications of Baião and of Porto were registered, being integrated stages in Cabeceiras de Basto and Braga. "Baião was in the front line for the Rally de Portugal to return to the north and we would like to have the race back in our county. But regardless of the importance of these events, they can not be held at any cost. The organization of rallies is dynamic, with variable conditions from year to year and they have to be duly considered, "said the mayor of Baião, Paulo Pereira, about the departure of Baião from the rally program in 2017, when Presentation.
For the future, Paulo Pereira maintains the willingness and interest of Baião to be able to receive the test again, by means of a good agreement for all parties.

ABOBOREIRA AND MARÃO TROICES

On February 20 Skoda will use the sections of the Aboboreira mountain range, making a route between the area of ​​the village of Almofrela and Chã de Parada. On the 21st, the route will be slightly different, connecting from the area of ​​Penaventosa to the surroundings of Outeiro de Ante, also in Aboboreira, through the half-slope road. On the 22nd will be repeated one of the routes, in a decision that will still be taken by Skoda.

The training sessions will take place between 9am and 5pm.

[Leon]

M

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

[Adler]

https://www.facebook.com/1618645355071097/photos/a.1622325408036425.1073741829.1618645355071097/1949956815273281/?type=3&Theater

Rally Pomurje (SLO) and Andi Aigner (with Ilka Minor) postet this pic in front of an Skoda R5, no comments about program though...

[RS]

https://www.facebook.com/1618645355071097/photos/a.1622325408036425.1073741829.1618645355071097/1949956815273281/?type=3&Theater

Rally Pomurje (SLO) and Andi Aigner (with Ilka Minor) postet this pic in front of an Skoda R5, no comments about program though...

Does Aigner still have links with BRR?

[WUff1]

Does Aigner still have links with BRR?

Last year he started at his home rally with a Fabia R5 from BRR (his only rally last year), but I don´t expect him to come back on a regular basis because of financial reasons.

[Andre Oliveira]

R5 regs to 2018 will be exciting

[Sulland]

Fabia Evo1?

The other R5s have now all had an evolution, and Fiesta will soon have an Evo2 on the market.

Any plans for an Evo1 for the Fabia, or will Skoda wait until they see the Evo2 from Ford, and see if they are passed ?

[RS]

R5 regs to 2018 will be exciting

Really? When will they be published?

Presumably will be designed to narrow the gap to the new WRCars a little.

[mousti]

Fabia Evo1?

The other R5s have now all had an evolution, and Fiesta will soon have an Evo2 on the market.

Any plans for an Evo1 for the Fabia, or will Skoda wait until they see the Evo2 from Ford, and see if they are passed ?
Evo1 will be arround May

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

[PLuto]

This talks about Evo, Evo 1 or Evo 2 are stupid. It is only marketing issue, all these things works as jokers, VO, VK...

[Andre Oliveira]

Yes, i think that will allow current R5 to decrease gap to WRC

[Sulland]

This talks about Evo, Evo 1 or Evo 2 are stupid. It is only marketing issue, all these things works as jokers, VO, VK...

I disagree with you.
If people do not have an upgrade/Evo installed, and does better in an old Fiesta than a driver with evo2 installed, it says something about the driver. Nice to know for us who follows the rallies and compare results.

A good thing also for your database I would think.

[PLuto]

I disagree with you.
If people do not have an upgrade/Evo installed, and does better in an old Fiesta than a driver with evo2 installed, it says something about the driver. Nice to know for us who follows the rallies and compare results.

A good thing also for your database I would think.

You cannot find what is installed in the car. Like I told, nothing like evo kit doesnt exist. There are only some parts, which are adjusted. But it is not necessary to put all the parts immediatelly there. Any mentioning of "evo" in any results or database means nothing, it is nonsense...

[RS]

Is it over for Abbring at Hyundai then in terms of a competition programme? And are Hyundai not going to place someone in either WRC2 or ERC to promote their R5?

[Rally Power]

You cannot find what is installed in the car. Like I told, nothing like evo kit doesnt exist. There are only some parts, which are adjusted. But it is not necessary to put all the parts immediatelly there. Any mentioning of "evo" in any results or database means nothing, it is nonsense...

Maybe I'm wrong, but aren't joker/evo parts fitted as a package? Probably that's why some PSA R5's owners didn't install engine improvements from last year evo kit; they would be forced to also use the faulty power steering that came along.

[PLuto]

Maybe I'm wrong, but aren't joker/evo parts fitted as a package? Probably that's why some PSA R5's owners didn't install engine improvements from last year evo kit; they would be forced to also use the faulty power steering that came along.

There are some parts as package in one joker, but others not. Thats why it is nonsense to talk about "evo" versions. It was nonsense with S2000 and it is nonsense with R5.

[dupanton]

There are some parts as package in one joker, but others not. Thats why it is nonsense to talk about "evo" versions. It was nonsense with S2000 and it is nonsense with R5.

Wasn't it mandatory to fit the evo parts in S2000? I remember problems for Vanneste when he wanted to start in Ypres without the evo bumpers.

[Ucci]

There are some parts as package in one joker, but others not. Thats why it is nonsense to talk about "evo" versions. It was nonsense with S2000 and it is nonsense with R5.
Ok, but cars with upgrades are faster or not?? If yes (it is logical...), than it is good to know who has the latest improvement and who not...at least there, where is an intensive fight for positions between R5 cars.
Otherwise-if just one R5 is at the finish line, than it has no sense.....

[Mirek]

Wasn't it mandatory to fit the evo parts in S2000? I remember problems for Vanneste when he wanted to start in Ypres without the evo bumpers.

Some modifications are mandatory some not. It's stated in the homologation regulations for which the new parts replace the old ones (usually after one year I think) and for which both options are allowed in the same time.

[Mirek]

Ok, but cars with upgrades are faster or not?? If yes (it is logical...), than it is good to know who has the latest improvement and who not...at least there, where is an intensive fight for positions between R5 cars.
Otherwise-if just one R5 is at the finish line, than it has no sense.....

You don't seem to understand so I will repeat what PLuto wrote in other words.

Nobody knows what is installed in which car except the teams themselves. Therefore no result system can ever show accurately the evolution status of said cars. The only proper way is to show only the type of the car and nothing else. In any other case You always show some bullshit in the results.

An example - You have 5 Fiesta R5 on the start line. You know that one team has everything available installed and the other has new engine but not new dampers and new gearbox ratios. The other three teams are foreign and You know nothing about them.

What will You show in results? One Fiesta R5 Evo, One R5 1/2 Evo and three R5? What if all the other three are fully upgraded? Or partially upgraded or each of them in different way? How do You know?

You can never know that and showing the state for just several known cars is simply wrong (Can You be even sure they are really known? have You checked each part Yourself?). That's why the only correct way is not to show such details at all.

[liposh]

Anyway there was decent difference between Fabia S2000 (2009-2010) and Fabia S2000 facelift (2011-) also known as "Evo2" ...It was different from outside and also from inside. BUT it would be arguing about nothing.

[Mirek]

But it's still the same case. What made it Evo? larger track and different body parts? But the wide car could have old bodyshell with different placement of some parts (for example I think later cars had battery at the back), it could have old engine, older gearbox etc. More important parts could have been old while those visible could have been new.

[Rally Power]

Some modifications are mandatory some not.

Honestly, neither yours nor Pluto’s explanations are totally clear (besides the issue of no one being able to say from outside that the car is a Evo 1, 2 or 3...) and one purpose of the forum is to learn something with the others.

So, can you or any other member answer these questions:
With current R5’s (lets put aside S2000’s or any former group or class) the joker parts are single parts or they came in multi parts kits that must be installed altogether? Can you give examples of joker parts that were allowed to be installed separately in R5 cars? Don’t the joker parts (or kits) must be registered on the car tech passport? If yes and if they're acctually kits and not single parts, what’s the problem of making mandatory the use of the designation Evo 1/2/whatever, besides the car model’s name on entry lists? Thxs in advance.

[Mirek]

Sorry, I can't tell You any details because I simply don't know them. I can only tell You general principle and that is very similar answer to that one which PLuto told You.

Normally the homologation has several types of extensions. Some of them are mandatory some not. Some of them need jokers some of them not, some may be introduced any time without any limitation.

If I remember right this is what You can find in the homologation form:
VF - means several different suppliers are allowed for the same part
VK - kit, using defined by manufacturer in the homologation list
VO - optional part; normally it's not allowed to combine various VOs for some functional parts, for exmaple You can't combine brake discs from one VO with calipers from another one
ER - this is the mandatory stuff, erratum replaces previously used part; regulations define which parts can be homologated only as ER

IMHO if there is some sort of set of several homologation extensions bound together it's from functional reason not due to regulations saying that some stuff has to be bound to another.

Regarding jokers I would need to have specific homologation regulations for R5 which is not a freely available document therefore I can't say which modifications fall under which category of extensions and what is their application policy. IMO at least all ER shall require jokers but probably many VOs too.

PS I apologize if something what I said is not totally accurate. Someone who works with it daily for sure has better knowledge than me.

[Sulland]

I see that the issue of Evos are not as simple as it seems.

But Rally-Power asked a valid question, will different upgrades be registred into the FIA Passport of the individual car?

[br21]

Jokers need to be registered in gold book. But not all R5 have gold passes. Some other modifications also need to be registered, some not. So it's not that easy and straightforward.
Some Software/firmware updates also need to be mentioned in gold pass.
Some jokers are necessary to be used in groups, some separate. All depends what is written on homologation documents of those.
So there is no easy way to track all the cars like they are without seeing their gold books. And not all cars have gold books and some have not recently updated ones. Most of the time they update the gold passes only on ERC or WRC events. So if car drives only national events you can just guess what's inside.

[Rally Power]

It's really a mess...and a shame that FIA doesn't care to make regs more clear and easily understood by the fans.

[TWRC]

Regarding jokers, found this in the Appendix J Article 261:
"All the parts homologated on the VR5 Variant form must be used in their entirety. These parts
must not be modified.
The use of a part homologated as “Joker” on a car will be noted on its technical passport.
It will no longer be possible to use the old part as from the date specified."

[dodge33cymru]

It's really a mess...and a shame that FIA doesn't care to make regs more clear and easily understood by the fans.
I think the only fans that care are us sad folk on here (and I use that endearingly!).

R1 - R5 is plenty clear enough to understand IMO.

[Andre Oliveira]

191 to Bastien Heron Racing (F)

https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16864173_10212725477634705_5592683300573345918_n.j pg?oh=ec7945b793ef044e9ff5efd9ef1aec1c&oe=5936F430

199 to ZM Racing (A)

https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16938456_1282121168539513_7003213319355314178_n.jp g?oh=ccb69e1e820a997b60fcdae026cf9d49&oe=5932C7E3

[RS]

So when will 2018 R5 regs be published? Presumably Ford and Citroen are working on their new cars already..

[Sulland]

Jokers need to be registered in gold book. But not all R5 have gold passes. Some other modifications also need to be registered, some not. So it's not that easy and straightforward.
Some Software/firmware updates also need to be mentioned in gold pass.
Some jokers are necessary to be used in groups, some separate. All depends what is written on homologation documents of those.
So there is no easy way to track all the cars like they are without seeing their gold books. And not all cars have gold books and some have not recently updated ones. Most of the time they update the gold passes only on ERC or WRC events. So if car drives only national events you can just guess what's inside.


Why dont all R5 cars have gold books?
Is the manufacturer responsible to sell them with an updated gold book, or do they get it on their first FIA rally?
So if the car has only been used nationally, no Gold Book, or does this differ btw manufacturers?

How can customers in the market for a used R5 verify that what he buys, both regarding software and hardware, is what the seller says, or does he just have to trust the seller saying that this car has the following upgrades.
Could be a tough experience using borrowed money to buy a top notch Evo 'Y', and a check after you have been smashed in a rally from a competitor with a real Evo 'Y'. He has the car checked, and find it is a basic R5 without any upgrades.

Can you as a buyer demand to have a FIA approved Gold Book, of recent date?

[Mirek]

FIA golden pass is FIA stuff and is being issued by FIA officials. What is happening on national level is in the scope of particular national ASNs, not FIA.

AFAIK the golden pass for the car is created only when the car first time appears on FIA scrutineering. There is no need for doing so before. National ASNs don't require it and not all cars are sold by the factory as complete vehicles. Some are just kits in crates.

With buying used cars it's same like with common second hand cars. You'd better take someone who knows the stuff with You to check everything. Some sellers are honest, some promise You wonders and sell garbage. Such is life. FIA golden pass doesn't give You any guarantee that what is written in it is also installed. It's only a paper saying that the stuff was there when FIA saw the car last time.

[Jarek Z]

Ivan Ares is apparently going to drive Hyundai i20 R5 in the Spanish rally championship:
https://www.facebook.com/FanpageRIslasC/photos/pcb.1896241477275131/1896241077275171/?type=3&theater

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Robert Barrable to give Hyundai i20 R5 Irish Tarmac RC debut In West Cork next month.

Paddy Flanagan, ITRC Manager:

“We all know what a talented driver Robert is, it was fantastic to see him along with Damian Connolly back in the Tarmac Championship in Galway, and now, going to West Cork in the new Hyundai i20 is another brilliant boost for the championship. We now have five different manufacturers represented in class 5″.

Robert plans a short test before the serious business begins in West Cork.

[Jarek Z]

Elwis Chentre and Fulvio Florean are going to drive Hyundai i20 R5 in Rally Il Ciocco (the first round of Italian rally championship on March 19):
http://www.motorzone.it/rally/al-via-del-cir-2017-chentre-e-florean-su-hyundai-i20-r5/

http://www.svsport.it/typo3temp/pics/r_2df43340e9.jpg

[Rally Power]

R5 regs to 2018 will be exciting

Bigger air restrictor? It’s a wild guess but the Skoda unit testing in Portugal seems faster than the current one and like it was suggested it could be the first test car for both Skoda and VW ’18 models.
D1OM video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DPaKvl69vk

[Andre Oliveira]

Pech

https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16903132_1335083946556572_234169901464890674_o.jpg ?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=9a7d8df67879f357e15eb096a50573a8&oe=59263033

Rallybaron (Finland)

https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/16836248_1259342924147463_5028067384766962773_o.jp g?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=7e00ceff2fd60b7485351423ab725050&oe=5939FF28

[NoFear85]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170224/4e7f80c52e5258d0cbe495923d7e0cf5.jpg

Car from OPV from Slovenia, driver Viliam Prodan in Croatian championship.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NoFear85]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170224/4e7f80c52e5258d0cbe495923d7e0cf5.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OldF]

I see that the issue of Evos are not as simple as it seems.

But Rally-Power asked a valid question, will different upgrades be registred into the FIA Passport of the individual car?

I would imagine that the crew has the homologation papers for scrutineering that corresponds to the parts used in the car.

[RS]

Bigger air restrictor? It’s a wild guess but the Skoda unit testing in Portugal seems faster than the current one and like it was suggested it could be the first test car for both Skoda and VW ’18 models.
D1OM video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DPaKvl69vk

It does look and sound more powerful but they could just be testing some joker parts which are due this year.

I notice MSport no longer list the Fiesta R5+ on their website (34mm restrictor vs. 32mm standard). Anyone know whether this car proved reliable for the people that used it and whether it provided much of a performance boost?

[OldF]

VO - optional part; normally it's not allowed to combine various VOs for some functional parts, for exmaple You can't combine brake discs from one VO with calipers from another one

In the past the VOs (variant options) was the way to homologate the competition parts. I think nowadays the VO homologations are mainly for parts that don’t have a big impact on the performance and the real competition parts are homologated with jokers which amounts are restricted.

I once asked a guy from our ASN and he said that it’s impossible to deduce which VOs or ERs on the homologation list (http://www.fia.com/regulation/category/760 General - 2017 complete list of homologated vehicles with extensions) are competition parts (jokers) and which are VOs (some brackets and supports etc.) because both are VOs in homologation list.

I’m not sure but I think the joker homologation only applies to R5 and WRC cars and cars in R1 – R3 classes still follow the traditional VO homologations.

[Jarek Z]

Vaclav Pech and his new Ford Fiesta R5 on a test session:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC6p_qg-7PY

[Ucci]

Vaclav Pech and his new Ford Fiesta R5 on a test session:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC6p_qg-7PY
He is mentioning Porsche...what is he saying?

[Mirek]

Short summary of his comments although it's nothing unexpected (after just few kilometers): There is nothing wrong about the car, very easy to drive, perfect brakes, very nimble and fast in corners.


He is mentioning Porsche...what is he saying?

He was asked if he feels the last season in RWD as a handicap for 2017. He said no because thanks to the Porsche he is used to very high speeds and acceleration. He said it was a lot more difficult to switch last year to RWD after 20 years in 4WD.

[Ucci]

He was asked if he feels the last season in RWD as a handicap for 2017. He said no because thanks to the Porsche he is used to very high speeds and acceleration. He said it was a lot more difficult to switch last year to RWD after 20 years in 4WD.
Thx

[Ralph-Mario]

Marijan Griebel ´17

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/int/artikel/d/2017/02/26/griebel-erst-rebenland-dann-europameisterschaft/

[Rally Power]

One more video on the Evo(?)/pre '18(?) Fabia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n37ULdrye0I
Video: FZRvideo
Btw, apparently autosport.pt talked to Skoda M staff and they've explained that Gronholm was only invited to give an external and impartial opinion about the R5 Fabia...

[RS]

Btw, apparently autosport.pt talked to Skoda M staff and they've explained that Gronholm was only invited to give an external and impartial opinion about the R5 Fabia...

Or more likely learn what the benchmark R5 is like before starting to test the Polo.

[Mirek]

One more video on the Evo(?)/pre '18(?) Fabia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n37ULdrye0I
Video: FZRvideo
Btw, apparently autosport.pt talked to Skoda M staff and they've explained that Gronholm was only invited to give an external and impartial opinion about the R5 Fabia...

Rule No.1: Never believe any official explanation from Škoda Motorsport ;)

Do You really believe that they need exactly that when hundreds if not thousand drivers drove the car already ;)

[Rally Power]

Rule No.1: Never believe any official explanation from Škoda Motorsport ;)
Do You really believe that they need exactly that when hundreds if not thousand drivers drove the car already ;)

I've used the dots to remark Skoda guy’s irony…and this time even autosport.pt journos understood it was a joke!

On a more serious note: if that car is the Evo, the Fabia will be even more difficult to beat. If it's a pre '18 mule, tuned according to future regs, next year R5's will become even more exciting (apart their rising price)!

[mousti]

Pieter Jan Maeyaert is building Fiesta R5 #204 ready for Spa Rally mid march.

[RS]

I've used the dots to remark Skoda guy’s irony…and this time even autosport.pt journos understood it was a joke!

On a more serious note: if that car is the Evo, the Fabia will be even more difficult to beat. If it's a pre '18 mule, tuned according to future regs, next year R5's will become even more exciting (apart their rising price)!

Well we don't know what future regs are (at least nobody here has said) although I suppose the manufacturers already do.

If I had to bet I would say the car tested in Portugal was the Evo (or whatever you want to call it) As far as we know they have not publicly tested the evo car yet, so it would be odd if they were already testing the 2018 car first. Plus those joker parts are due to debut in Portugal so it makes some sense.

[Mirek]

Still the talk about Evo... PLuto explained pretty well that it's just marketing name without much practical meaning. It's a car with probably some new joker(s) and that's it.

[RS]

Still the talk about Evo... PLuto explained pretty well that it's just marketing name without much practical meaning. It's a car with probably some new joker(s) and that's it.

That's why I said whatever you want to call it.. "car with probably some new jokers and that's it" isn't too snappy phrase.

[pantealex]

M-Sport calls their car Evo...

Maybe someone should tell them that it´s illegal...

After all Peugeot is T16 and nobody calls it T16.

For me EVO means latest spec.

[mousti]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170228/15f5571c8c3dc765e3e1cb6a5e0b21c1.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170228/5fadbf0bb1cd1a35615534e3cf77de12.jpg

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

[liposh]

M-Sport calls their car Evo...

Maybe someone should tell them that it´s illegal...

After all Peugeot is T16 and nobody calls it T16.

For me EVO means latest spec.

For example wifi password in house of my ex-girlfriend is "P208R5T16" (Yes, I did the set up and until now nobody changed it) I think it is ideal opportunity (and IMHO the only one) where you can use Pug´s official name :D

[Mirek]

M-Sport calls their car Evo...

Maybe someone should tell them that it´s illegal...

After all Peugeot is T16 and nobody calls it T16.

For me EVO means latest spec.

It's not illegal but it's a marketing name saying not much about the real spec.

[RS]

At least we can be pretty certain that works teams are running all the upgrades and can be considered evo cars.

[Mirek]

They do run the latest spec anyway :)

[pantealex]

so:
You can buy EVO but you can´t drive with EVO ;)

Clear!

[Sulland]

1262
Is this the 2017 chassis/ body upgrade?

[Mirek]

That's a photo of showcar from years a go.

[PLuto]

That's a photo of showcar from years a go.

So maybe it is Evo -1 ? :)

[Sulland]

http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-r5/cronin-confirms-full-brc-season

M-Sport still uses it.

[dimviii]

#WRC | According to AUTOhebdo, Citroën Racing began yesterday the tests of development of the C3 R5 on the chassis of a Peugeot 208 T16 R5

[RS]

#WRC | According to AUTOhebdo, Citroën Racing began yesterday the tests of development of the C3 R5 on the chassis of a Peugeot 208 T16 R5

Why wouldn't they do it with a C3 chassis when this vehicle is already on the roads?

[dimviii]

probably is not ready c3 r5 chassis.So they test mechanical parts at different chassis

[RS]

Will be very interesting to see some test videos of this car..

[pantealex]

Will be very interesting to see some test videos of this car..

also Yaris R5 test videos would be interesting...

[RS]

also Yaris R5 test videos would be interesting...

Has it started testing yet?

[pantealex]

Has it started testing yet?

Probably...

Hard to say because they were testing WRC several months before 1st photos/videos.

[RS]

Will be useful for Toyota having Lappi onboard who knows what the benchmark R5 is like.

[pantealex]

Will be useful for Toyota having Lappi onboard who knows what the benchmark R5 is like.

Jarkko Nikara is main test driver for R5 (and they can use Kalle Rovanperä)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Robert Barrable sets sights on WRC2 in new i20 R5...

http://www.rte.ie/sport/motorsport/2017/0315/860079-watch/

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/842268867707707393/01b6EKdW?format=jpg&name=600x314

[Jarek Z]

Polish driver Daniel Chwist is going to drive selected rounds of German rally championship with Hyundai i20 R5. Short video from his test session in Kamionki can be found here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqVeMt-aTRA

Short characteristics of the driver:
speed: missing
potential: weak
talent: not detected :)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Barrable 3rd overnight on the West Cork rally.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7OpKdMXUAAaSQo.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7Omld4XUAEBBB2.jpg:large

Unfortunately just had a puncture on SS13 so dropped to 5th, not sure if continuing...

EDIT: 'Cracked brake disc after a puncture on SS13. That's us out, so near to the end of a great @westcorkrally'. :(

[Jarek Z]

The Swedish Mitsubishi Mirage R5 is going to compete in Asia-Pacific Rally Championship. It somehow got acceptance by championship officials to battle for overall positions and championship points alongside homologated R5, R4 and NR4 cars in Class AP4. One car will be driven by Finnish ace Jari Ketomaa, the other by British National Cup Champion Robert Blomberg from Sweden.

More details at http://mitsubishir5.com/news160317.html

http://www.mitsubishir5.com/img/MitsR5080317/pic4.jpg

[Mirek]

Jarek, already for two years it is possible to run nationally or regionally homologated cars in FIA regional championships except European one.

[Jarek Z]

Thanks for the info Mirek, I had no idea about it.

[Mirek]

I think that Maxirally cars are used in CODASUR and Australians used their domestic cars in APRC (at least their local S2000 cars).

[Co-driven]

In South America the Maxi Rally cars are allowed, but not so many people used them in the past.
For this season, the new turbo version should be used and there was some complaints from the Paraguayan drivers with R5 cars saying that the restrictor is too big and the Maxi will be faster.
There was even some rumours that the Paraguayan's would boycott the championship.

[M5]

I see mr Anders Grondal is selling his Fiesta on rallycarsforsale. Is he switching brand?

[dimviii]

Munaretto Sport‏*@MunarettoSport
We're pleased to welcome the three latest cars at home!
https://goo.gl/kiQKVF*
#MunarettoSport #PowerCarTeam #NewToys #208R5 #208R2

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7dVI-kX4AAFS8D.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7dVI-mXgAE3x8u.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7dVI-jW4AEfdng.jpg

[Rally Power]

For this season, the new turbo version should be used and there was some complaints from the Paraguayan drivers with R5 cars saying that the restrictor is too big and the Maxi will be faster.

34mm like the N5 in spain?

[ZequeArgentina]

Yes 34mm in Argentina, and Southamerica.
Anyhow, I doubt they are faster than R5; they are much cheaper and with less development potential.

[Rally Power]

Peugeot is also branding their new jokers fitted cars as Evo2:
http://staticv2.revistascratch.com//images/noticia/monday-test-del-rallye-azores-2017_full.jpeg

[br21]

not much changes now, mainly they got back to mechanical power steering pump.

[Jarek Z]

According to http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/polo-r5-pojawi-sie-latem-2018,75058 VW Polo R5 is going to arrive in the summer of 2018. At the same time, Skoda Fabia R5 will still be continued. Sorry, I couldn't find any English source.

[Mirek]

It was discussed yesterday in WRC section. See from here further: http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?37117-WRC-News-amp-Rumours-(part-V)-2017&p=1131744&viewfull=1#post1131744

[Andre Oliveira]

It seems Kajto will debut EVO2 this weekend. Available to costumers in june

[the sniper]

Peugeot is also branding their new jokers fitted cars as Evo2:

I think they're just trolling this forum. ;) :D

[Rally Power]

Does anyone know who's leading the DS3/208 R5 replacements project? Will it be Peugeot Sport (responsible for the current models), Citroen Racing (like Matton has already announced) or even a mix team? We've heard some news about a C3 being tested on a 208 mule and now Farmin has openly talked to Revista Scratch site about a future 208 R5 (apparently they’ll keep the 208 name on the new production model to be released). Either way, we can just hope it won’t be the same team that turned the 208/DS into a rally mess…
http://www.revistascratch.com/erc/noticia/bruno-famin-esta-previsto-hacer-un-nuevo-peugeot-208-t16-r5-37358

[Mirek]

The development od current DS3/208 started with people who later during the project moved to Hyundai and I think that it was one of the reasons why it went bad afterwards. One of them was the leader of the project Bertrand Vallat if I remember.

[TWRC]

Does anyone know who's leading the DS3/208 R5 replacements project? Will it be Peugeot Sport (responsible for the current models), Citroen Racing (like Matton has already announced) or even a mix team? We've heard some news about a C3 being tested on a 208 mule and now Farmin has openly talked to Revista Scratch site about a future 208 R5 (apparently they’ll keep the 208 name on the new production model to be released). Either way, we can just hope it won’t be the same team that turned the 208/DS into a rally mess…
http://www.revistascratch.com/erc/noticia/bruno-famin-esta-previsto-hacer-un-nuevo-peugeot-208-t16-r5-37358
I don't expect them to make the same mistakes again with the new cars, they clearly have many experience what doesn't work, so...
In the meantime, maybe they could develop their customer service program. Botka said in an interview that they had to retire in Azores after they broke the gearbox cable, because they didn't have a spare, despite ordering a dozen in November, just that they haven't arrived yet... Also, he is contemplating a car swap (he'll do Canaries with the DS3, it is currently with Sports&You, after that nothing's sure), and wowed that he'll never buy a Peugeot or Citroën again.

[Rally Power]

In the meantime, maybe they could develop their customer service program. Botka said in an interview that they had to retire in Azores after they broke the gearbox cable, because they didn't have a spare, despite ordering a dozen in November, just that they haven't arrived yet... Also, he is contemplating a car swap (he'll do Canaries with the DS3, it is currently with Sports&You, after that nothing's sure), and wowed that he'll never buy a Peugeot or Citroën again.

That's a shame.
Btw, will Botka be serviced by Sports&You in Canarias? They've been doing a great job wit Citro's.

[TWRC]

That's a shame.
Btw, will Botka be serviced by Sports&You in Canarias? They've been doing a great job wit Citro's.
He didn't touch on that subject, just that he needs to put in a lot of money to the freshly rebuilt car again and he is growing tired of it. Although I can see some kind of partnership between them as a last chance for the car, we shall see.

[Sulland]

Whoever is sponsering Bergkvist in WRC2 need to buy or rent him a better car, preferably a Fabia. He has very little gain on his career in the ageing DS3.

He has the talent, but not able to show it now.

[dimviii]

Whoever is sponsering Bergkvist in WRC2 need to buy or rent him a better car, preferably a Fabia. He has very little gain on his career in the ageing DS3.

He has the talent, but not able to show it now.

Rossel was at his 2nd rally with 4wd car at Corsica.And was a ds3 r5.

[TWRC]

Whoever is sponsering Bergkvist in WRC2 need to buy or rent him a better car, preferably a Fabia. He has very little gain on his career in the ageing DS3.

He has the talent, but not able to show it now.
He's the official Citroën Racing test driver, so no other car is possible for him ATM.

[nafpaktos]

Rossel was at his 2nd rally with 4wd car at Corsica.And was a ds3 r5.

yes psa cars can be still decent on tarmac,but on loose surface no.(dont mention ucci on italian domestic championsip)

[dimviii]

I was talking about Berqvist performance at asphalt rally,like Corse.

[itix]

Whoever is sponsering Bergkvist in WRC2 need to buy or rent him a better car, preferably a Fabia. He has very little gain on his career in the ageing DS3.

He has the talent, but not able to show it now.
I am actually thinking that he has hit a roof and has stopped developing. Sure, the Ds 3 is not the best but there are plenty of people doing better result than him, in the same car.

He did great in the Opel and he did a very good Valais and some good performances in Swedish rallies in a group N Mitsubishi, but apart from that he hasn't really managed to do anything special.

His stage times are awful.

I am not so impressed by him anymore.

Maybe he'll surprise me in the future and I really hope he will because it was too long ago that we had a good Swedish driver.

Also he is associated with Citroen officially so I doubt they will "buy him a skoda or similar" ;)

[dodge33cymru]

Does seem that he's in danger of being another Sepp Weigand but as itix says, I think one of those sponsors is Citroen, so he's unlikely to change. In theory he's a development driver too, so maybe he'll get a chance to prove himself with the new C3 R5 at some point.

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[Mirek]

Sad thing is that Sepp actually hasn't stopped his development. He was doing notable progress on every event where he started from one year to another. For example here on Barum his results were 10th-4th-2nd in the three years he did in works car. The average time loss was 1,94s/km (with an off), 0,78s/km, 0,22s/km. It simply isn't fair to say he stopped developing his skills.

[sindroms]

I was talking about Berqvist performance at asphalt rally,like Corse.

I don't think the asphalt rally as it self is a cause. I have witnessed Bergkvist on every surface - snow, gravel, asphalt. I can confirm he was excellent on asphalt (in Germany WRC 2015 on Opel R2) in every aspect. Yes, Tour de Corse is different type of tarmac but still...

[Mirek]

He was absolutely perfect in Barum too when he drove the Adam. I don't know what is wrong with him now.

[Simmi]

The thing with Bergkvist is that I think - even if the car wasn't reliable or the best out there - he'd still be flashing some pace and some good stage times occasionally. It really doesn't feel like we're seeing any of that at the moment. I hope he can put something together this year - as like everyone else I really enjoyed watching him in the Adam. Saw him absolutely balls out on the last stage of the Circuit of Ireland in 2015 where he beat Griebel.

[dimviii]

guys as we have said plenty of times,that somebody was fast with r2 doesn't quarante that he will be fast at higher category.We ve seen it for years,as we ve seen that drivers without being top at small category,drove better at higher categories.
Simmi wrote it perfect,if he had some potential we had to see some good times at some stages.We haven't,at least till now.
Its pitty with such patronising from Citroen and Serderidis,but that's life.

[sindroms]

guys as we have said plenty of times,that somebody was fast with r2 doesn't quarante that he will be fast at higher category.

I have a theory - "if you are quick on FWD you will succeed on 4WD too". It's not only a theory it's proven by my observations through the years how drivers are making step from FWD to 4WD. OK, it's based more or less on Baltic countries drivers but it worked in countless examples - Tanak, Koitla, Parn, Kaur, Neiksan's brothers, Sirmacis, Rovanpera jr. and so on.
Lefebvre was the first one who made a crack in my theory. I was impressed by him in ERC Liepaja 2013 when he being first time on snow start to beat all the locals. I had a great expectations regarding to him. I tend to agree to forumer who said that he is too fast-tracked in his career development.

[liposh]

guys as we have said plenty of times,that somebody was fast with r2 doesn't quarante that he will be fast at higher category.
...but Bergkvist was fast with R5 car. And he was fast instantly after switching from R2 car to R5 car. That 4th place from Valais 2015 with P208 T16 wasn´t just a coincidence. I know You will say one good result isn´t prove of anything but I still believe in him and his skills. On the other hand I admit I am confused, because it is clearly possible to drive the DS3 R5 much faster on tarmac.

[dimviii]

is it enough a 4th place at Valais at once time,for success when you step at wrc 2 level?
its not easy,we see that its not easy even for the big category with the highest level drivers.
Mikkelsen Kopecky Camilli Suninen is at a higher level,and this is the level you have to measure if you want to go forward.
Its not easy,and its impossible to be all drivers who make the step to wrc2 ,at top level,even if they are champions at lower category.
its exactly the same, as when somebody step from r5 to wrc machine.

[BigWorm]

The thing with Bergkvist is that I think - even if the car wasn't reliable or the best out there - he'd still be flashing some pace and some good stage times occasionally. It really doesn't feel like we're seeing any of that at the moment. I hope he can put something together this year - as like everyone else I really enjoyed watching him in the Adam. Saw him absolutely balls out on the last stage of the Circuit of Ireland in 2015 where he beat Griebel.

We haven't at all, he's not flexing his muscles. Or if he is, it's not looking that good.

Rally Sweden was ok, but on tarmac he has been about 2-3s/km slower than the other guys which is a lot. Getting a bit turned off by that, but at least he gets some experience.

[Simmi]

I still think there's time for Emil. Really not too much 4WD experience at all. I think as fans we are guilty of trying to expect too much too quickly.

But then not too many guys are going to look favourable compared against someone like Ogier or more recently Suninen. Teemu's learning curve is very impressive. He won a WRC2 round in his first year of 4WD. Some good luck to do that but still. Which is why I was saying we should be at least seeing some signs that Bergkvist has the pace. Even if he doesn't have results at the end.

Bergkvist: https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/31767-Emil-Bergkvist/
Suninen: https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/46560-Teemu-Suninen/

[Jarek Z]

I still think there's time for Emil. Really not too much 4WD experience at all. I think as fans we are guilty of trying to expect too much too quickly.

Yes, maybe people are expecting too much from Bergkvist?

Marijan Griebel took a similar path as Bergkvist in his career. He also won Junior ERC as a works Opel driver. Then they both quickly switched to R5 cars. Bergkvist was 4th in Valais, but Griebel was 2nd in Cyprus. Then Griebel backed up this result by being 2nd also on Azores, where the entry list was very good. Which means that Griebel continues to impress, Bergkvist doesn't...

[PLuto]

I still think that biggest mistake of Emil was that he was going to WRC2 too quickly. And from beginning he wanted to fight for best places with factory drivers... He should stay one year in ERC with R5 car to know the car well...

[Rallyper]

To me it´s also about economy. Bergkvist had to take what they could afford. And the Citroen wasn´t, and isn´t the best car. The Citroen is way from the pace reliability compared to Skoda and Fiesta.
I have seen him driving 4WD cars in sweden and don´t think that´s the problem.

If you don´t drive many rallies and on top of all, when you do your seldom apparencies you have more on your shoulders than just driving fast.

That combination to me, could be an explanation. However he´s done mistakes as well, so at the time being I´m quite mixed up with the feelings for Emil. Should want him the best, but that hasn´t been seen for long now.

[Andre Oliveira]

R5 with paddleshift in 2018? Costs will increase. Stupid guys will damage the best car rules in years.

[br21]

Yes, MSport was testing it already mid last year.
I think FIA will tell that WRC cars become more advanced, so they need to make R5 more advanced also, etc. And main reason is to make R5 more expensive to make room for new R4, as currently it won't be much cheaper than R5...

[PLuto]

Another stupid decision made by FIA. Like usually...

[RS]

Does paddleshift even make the cars quicker or just easier to drive?

What other changes are coming to R5?

[Andre Oliveira]

Restrictor size will change too

[RS]

Restrictor size will change too

To?

[CWJ]

Does paddleshift even make the cars quicker or just easier to drive?

In my opinion faster and more reliable gear change. Better for the gearbox itself, less demanding.

[RS]

I understand the need for faster R5 cars in order to reduce the gap to the new WRCars, but perhaps it would have been better to not increase the speed of those too.

[PLuto]

I understand the need for faster R5 cars in order to reduce the gap to the new WRCars, but perhaps it would have been better to not increase the speed of those too.

I dont understand it. There is no need to have faster R5. There is no need to reduce the gap to the new WRC.

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Does paddleshift even make the cars quicker or just easier to drive?

What other changes are coming to R5?
If you're using Peugeot, Lancer & Fabia WRC style paddle, then yeah..

I've nothing against the paddle, but even TC1 & NGTC cars are still using sequential gear lever..

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[RS]

I dont understand it. There is no need to have faster R5. There is no need to reduce the gap to the new WRC.

How can it be healthy for young and upcoming drivers to have a larger gap between the World Rally Car and the next category down?

A bit more power will make the R5 more spectacular too.

[Jarek Z]

How can it be healthy for young and upcoming drivers to have a larger gap between the World Rally Car and the next category down?

Is it really such a big problem? Loeb was driving Citroen Saxo Kit Car, before stepping up to WRC, Ogier was driving Citroen C2 S1600 and Dani Sordo was driving Saxo too, if memory serves. Was the gap between the World Rally Car and S1600 car big? Yes, it was, but it didn't stop those drivers on their way to the champions league.

[zoolander36]

Is it really such a big problem? Loeb was driving Citroen Saxo Kit Car, before stepping up to WRC, Ogier was driving Citroen C2 S1600 and Dani Sordo was driving Saxo too, if memory serves. Was the gap between the World Rally Car and S1600 car big? Yes, it was, but it didn't stop those drivers on their way to the champions league.

Dani Sordo drove mainly a C2 S1600 as Ogier though he did one or two rallys with a Saxo too



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[PLuto]

How can it be healthy for young and upcoming drivers to have a larger gap between the World Rally Car and the next category down?

A bit more power will make the R5 more spectacular too.

For young and upcoming drivers there is no problem with power gap between the cars. In their age, they need to learn basics of the rallysport, consistence, ability to fight for seconds, to concentrate on long events, on long stages. So much power is not necessary for it...

More power doesnt mean more spectacular. But fore sure more power means more expensive runnings costs and less reliability for cars.

Sorry, I cannot see any advantage of making R5 more powerful and more expensive.

[Andre Oliveira]

#212 to Óscar Palacio

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9TXUB5XcAA15nn?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9TXUB7XcAAlr__?format=jpg&name=large

[Jarek Z]

Dani Sordo drove mainly a C2 S1600 as Ogier though he did one or two rallys with a Saxo too

Yes, you are right. I made a mistake. It was Dani Sola, who was driving Citroen Saxo, not Dani Sordo. Thanks for the correction.
https://ewrc-results.com/image.php?id=14991&entry=

[Jarek Z]

Interesting fact - Skoda Fabia is the best R5 car in 2017 so far. This car leads 18 international and national championships at the moment:
https://www.skoda-motorsport.com/en/fast-blocks-skoda-fabia-r5-drivers-lead-championships-around-world/

[Andre Oliveira]

Surprised by change. Nasser in Ford Fiesta R5

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-DjgDKW0AA8pMH?format=jpg&name=large

[sindroms]

Benediktas Vanagas (Lithuania) has switched from Subaru Impreza WRC to Škoda Fabia R5.

https://translate.google.lv/translate?sl=lt&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=lv&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.15min.lt%2Fgazas%2Fnaujiena%2Fa utosportas%2Fprabilo-benediktas-vanagas-dalyvaus-iskart-dviejose-ralio-serijose-25-786052&edit-text=&act=url

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-1K5OFW0AEmtts?format=jpg&name=large

[Rally Power]

The new Polo (base for the future R5) caught in South Africa.

http://cdn-imgsvr.cars.co.za/images/2017/3/VW-Polo-Spy/large/unnamed2.jpg
Photo: cars.co.za
Official teaser with camouflaged car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ss8FchDuyI
Full story: http://www.cars.co.za/motoring_news/update-new-volkswagen-polo-2017-spotted-in-sa-video/43150/#.WQzYF0Xyu00

[Andre Oliveira]

Brynildsen sold his Fiesta R5 to New Zealand. Interesting see R5 vs AP4.

[RS]

Do we know whether Skoda actually homologated anything on April 1st and whether they have used the new parts yet? Unsurprisingly, Skoda have not said anything about it.

The car Tidemand was testing in Portugal this week looks and sounds a bit more violent though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjbNSF3P_do

[Mirek]

Yes, we do. This is from FIA

01.01.2017 26/14 VO CARROSSERIE / BODYWORK
01.01.2017 27/08 ER MOTEUR / ENGINE; CARROSSERIE / BODYWORK
01.01.2017 28/09 ER MOTEUR / ENGINE
01.01.2017 INFO. COMPLEMENTAIRE DISPONIBILITE / COMPLEMENTARY INFO. AVAILABILITY
01.03.2017 29/15 VO TRANSMISSION / POWER TRAIN; TRAIN ROULANT / RUNNING GEAR
01.03.2017 30/10 ER MOTEUR / ENGINE
01.03.2017 31/03 VF MOTEUR / ENGINE
01.03.2017 32/03 ERJ MOTEUR / ENGINE
01.04.2017 33/04 ERJ TRANSMISSION / POWER TRAIN

If I understand right ERJ means erratum-joker.

[RS]

Thanks, do you know anything more specific about what they changed?

Keen to see how they perform in Portugal with the new parts and especially Mikkelsen behind the wheel for the first time on gravel.