Rally2 (ex-R5) News

[Mirek]

I fear that making R5 a base for new WRC will only rise price of R5 not vice versa. Maybe I don't fear... I'm quite sure about that :dozey:

[Francis44]

You are missing the point. Even if the FIA makes the R5 category the top one, it would be just a matter of months before all the brands involved start to make the cars expensive again. We have a very good example with the new WRC cars. From a privateer point of view running a WRC 2000T or a WRC 1600T is virtually the same. You know see that you can run a top WRC 2000T (C4) in regional events for much cheaper price. The problem is way beyond the cost of cars.

[HaCo]

Opel with R5 from 2015/2016, this time with official entry!!!!
They officially return to rally sport!
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/adac-rm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2012/11/21/opel-kehrt-in-den-rallyesport-zurueck/index.html

Verstuurd van mijn ARCHOS 80G9 met Tapatalk

[tommeke_B]

I fear that making R5 a base for new WRC will only rise price of R5 not vice versa. Maybe I don't fear... I'm quite sure about that :dozey:
You're right about that indeed... FIA should already put a solid price on every part itself to prevent that, and that's not realistic anymore...

[Sulland]

So before any R5 has turned a wheel, we have comittment from;

Peugeot
Citroen
Ford
Skoda
Opel
?

Maybe from;

Renault
Fiat
Mini
Subaru
Toyota
VW
?

Very maybe; (wishful thinking)

Proton
Lada
Mitsubishi
Suzuki
Dacia
Mazda
Volvo
BMW
Mercedes Benz
?

That must be called a success!!

[tommeke_B]

Any source of Fiat, VW and Mini wanting to make an R5 (in your maybe-list)?
In "very maybe" you can add pretty much any car-manufacturer, and that would not make it less realistic than it is now... ;)

[EightGear]

So before any R5 has turned a wheel, we have comittment from;

Peugeot
Citroen
Ford
Skoda
Opel
?

Maybe from;

Renault
Fiat
Mini
Subaru
Toyota
VW
?

Very maybe; (wishful thinking)

Proton
Lada
Mitsubishi
Suzuki
Dacia
Mazda
Volvo
BMW
Mercedes Benz
?

That must be called a success!!

Did you just name all car brands you know?

[stefanvv]

So before any R5 has turned a wheel, we have comittment from;

Peugeot
Citroen
Ford
Skoda
Opel
?

Maybe from;

Renault
Fiat
Mini
Subaru
Toyota
VW
?

Very maybe; (wishful thinking)

Proton
Lada
Mitsubishi
Suzuki
Dacia
Mazda
Volvo
BMW
Mercedes Benz
?

That must be called a success!!

I would like that :)

[uranium]

Lada is working somehow on racing version of Kalina and Granta afaik. They made earlier S1600 version. But as for R5... I am realist :)

[Abarth]

Lada is working somehow on racing version of Kalina and Granta afaik. They made earlier S1600 version. But as for R5... I am realist :)

Just get Putin interessted in rally, and it will be done quick! :p

[stefanvv]

Lada is working somehow on racing version of Kalina and Granta afaik. They made earlier S1600 version.

Yes I know about that, it is GM (Opel) engine if I remember correctly...

[prpr]

Has Lada been bought by Renault?

[uranium]

Has Lada been bought by Renault?

BBC News - Renault-Nissan to take control of Lada-owner Avtovaz (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17929039)

[Sulland]

Discussing R5 price history, it is not that long ago the aim was 100 000 euro:


Lets put first here the public sources for this new formula.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/OkdF/FIAlaunchesnewturbocarformula.jpg

gpweek (http://mag.gpweek.com/?iid=49492) (page 39)

and

MaxRally | News | Cheaper Super 2000 category planned (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/cheaper_super_2000_category_planned/)

Cheaper Super 2000 category planned


24th July 2011
By Charlie Contadeli

The new-generation Super 2000 cars will be half the price of a current version according to Peugeot Sport’s Bertrand Vallat.

Vallat, who is responsible for the French make’s hugely successful 207 model, revealed that Peugeot and Skoda are in discussions with the FIA, motorsport’s world governing body, regarding the new technical regulations for 2013.

In an interview with respected radio reporter Colin Clark, Vallat said: “Skoda and Peugeot are talking with the FIA for a new car from 2013. It will be a standard car with a 1.6 turbo based on a future model. We are trying to cut the technical cost by half. It will be a big challenge to reduce this cost but we will be working hard with the FIA to achieve this. The category could be good."

The current Super 2000 rules were introduced in 2006. If the cost-cutting plans reach fruition then the new-era S2000 machine could cost approximately 100,000 Euros.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The gpweek story tells that the new formula will be based on current R3 rules and a 1.6 turbo engine must be used which imo suggests that the engine can be taken from another model.

The maxrally story tells that “It will be a standard car with a 1.6 turbo based on a future model” which in turn suggests that the production model must have a 1.6 GDI turbo engine.

I wish it would be a single supplier engine.

I don’t think there are so many makes currently that have a 1.6 GDI turbo engine. Citroen DS3/C4, Peugeot 207/308 and Ford Focus are all I know about.

If the new formula cars should be ready at the beginning of 2013, FIA should publish the rules as early as possible. One year and four months is quite short time to develop and test a new car.

[Tom206wrc]

Peugeot 208 R5 inkuje s legendou Ari Vatanenon | Gar | auto.sme.sk (http://www.auto.sme.sk/c/6635817/peugeot-208-r5-ucinkuje-s-legendou-ari-vatanenon.html)

:confused:

[Mirek]

Nothing interesting in that article. Just known common information about the car.

[Tom206wrc]

They mentionned Ari Vatanen, so I thought he would drive a 208 R5 on some rallies in 2013 :p :

[Mirek]

No, that words were only about the promo video of Peugeot.

[tommeke_B]

Peugeot Sport announced something to happen in 4 days... I think some first public video with some action from the car.

http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/193221_506697752694072_111345126_o.jpg - on the timeline of Peugeot Sport, with "J-4" (means -4 days). :)

[mousti]

Already Photos published, only 2 though

Premiers essais pour la 208 R5 avec Bouffier (http://www.rallye-sport.fr/premiers-essais-pour-la-208-r5-avec-bouffier/)

[br21]

Rumors say Bouffier done first kms on Saturday with 208 R5, short gravel tests in France. He said car is good, good body and quite strong engine as for this phase of development

[Tom206wrc]

These are not rumours ;)

[dimviii]

some bigger photos.Very nice car imho!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/598616_10151213937583952_926445966_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/68908_10151213936873952_2140682960_n.jpg

[TyPat107]

Car looks good! Except that front bumper, which is terrible

[tommeke_B]

Drivers will love it... Plenty of space to put sponsors on, and very visible! ;)

[stefanvv]

Car looks good! Except that front bumper, which is terrible

They should fix that probably like this:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQjZZW4aMfOxvNil7kfCcVBNS7TXP-q-zCSiup5ajoLIX5PiT-uIw

[Sulland]

Looks from the pictures like the wheelbase is extended. Is it, or am I fooled from the widened car?

[dimviii]

Looks from the pictures like the wheelbase is extended. Is it, or am I fooled from the widened car?

wide tyres imho

[A FONDO]

Car looks good! Except that front bumper, which is terrible

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/68908_10151213936873952_2140682960_n.jpg


http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/v1/designs/11103134,width=190,height=190/Smiley-face-funny.png

[noel157]

Nice to see it finally testing:

http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/208-R5-2-e1355755825160.jpg

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Car looks good! Except that front bumper, which is terrible
I'm guessing the driver might have hit something, because it looks a little damaged.

[liposh]

I personally would place there holes for cooling the brakes. It is ideal place for it there.

[Raven]

The bumper looks like the same as in the showcar, but it was probably just taken out from the mould, without any further processing.

[A FONDO]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/598616_10151213937583952_926445966_n.jpg

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/rutheye/rutheye1005/rutheye100500080/6928499-fish-with-open-mouth-in-aquarium-in-albuquerque-nm.jpg

[Mirek]

Looks from the pictures like the wheelbase is extended. Is it, or am I fooled from the widened car?

For S2000 wheelbase could have been extended from stock car by 1%. I'm not sure if it applies for R5 as well. Anyway 208 has long wheelbase already in stock version.

[Mirek]

I personally would place there holes for cooling the brakes. It is ideal place for it there.

Depends if rules allow that.

[Jeppe]

For S2000 wheelbase could have been extended from stock car by 1%. I'm not sure if it applies for R5 as well. Anyway 208 has long wheelbase already in stock version.

Me neither about the R5 rules, but you´re right about the wheelbases - Peugeot got the longest:

C2 R2 2315 mm
Twingo R2 2368 mm
Fabia S2000/R2 2486 mm
Fiesta S2000/R2 2489 mm
208 R2 2538 mm
208 R5 2560 mm (from Peugeot Sport specs sheet)

[mousti]

Belgian - Greek Jourdan Serderidis is planning to buy a Fiesta R5 this year to do around 4 local rally's with it to learn the car. He says the car should be delivered in march..

[Coach 2]

Me neither about the R5 rules, but you´re right about the wheelbases - Peugeot got the longest:

C2 R2 2315 mm
Twingo R2 2368 mm
Fabia S2000/R2 2486 mm
Fiesta S2000/R2 2489 mm
208 R2 2538 mm
208 R5 2560 mm (from Peugeot Sport specs sheet)

2538 / 100 = 25,38 * 101 = 2563,38

[dimviii]

Vorerst kein Skoda Fabia R5*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/int/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2012/12/19/vorerst-kein-skoda-fabia-r5/index.html)

[Mirek]

That's just usual Škoda way of speaking denying anything until someone puts photos on internet... They are working on R5 and they want R2T or something like that to be allowed by FIA. Both cars are planned only with Fabia III which is planned to enter production in early 2014. But that's nothing new just repeating of what was already said dozens of times...

[RS]

That's just usual Škoda way of speaking denying anything until someone puts photos on internet... They are working on R5 and they want R2T or something like that to be allowed by FIA. Both cars are planned only with Fabia III which is planned to enter production in early 2014. But that's nothing new just repeating of what was already said dozens of times...

So Kopecky will have to drive a heavily disguised car in testing this year?

[Mirek]

I guess they will use current S2000 bodyshell for initial R5 development. They have plenty of them...

[tommeke_B]

Peugeot 208 Type R5 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG3LhnVJPRo&feature=youtu.be) :)

[tommeke_B]

Peugeot 208 R5 | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151410352984155&set=vb.118252478205270&type=2&theater) - A short video from first test... :) (So some of you can now make a lot of comments about how bad the car will be, like the first roll-out -not test- of Hyundai's car)

[tommeke_B]

Premières images de la 208 Type R5 en test - Vidéo Dailymotion (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw49gu_premieres-images-de-la-208-type-r5-en-test_auto#.UNQ39fjjT_g.twitter) - Same video, for those without facebook... :)

[makinen_fan]

The turbo waste gate sounds amazing! Reminds me the Impreza WRC 2000

[OldF]

Premières images de la 208 Type R5 en test - Vidéo Dailymotion (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw49gu_premieres-images-de-la-208-type-r5-en-test_auto#.UNQ39fjjT_g.twitter) - Same video, for those without facebook... :)

We want more. :)

[Sulland]

The turbo waste gate sounds amazing! Reminds me the Impreza WRC 2000

Or Audi Quatro!

[RS]

That sounds good. I was fearing a boring sound like RRC/R3T/Fiesta WRC but it seems it might be ok!

I am also so pleased they allowed the cars to be widened, especially as stock 208 suffers a bit from "Fabia 2 syndrome" - too tall compared to width.

Please can someobody make this thread appear also in the ERC forum as I think R5 will be very important to that series.

[Tom206wrc]

HEY !!!! Belgian driver/team owner Philipp Cracco has bought a 208 R5 ???? :eek:
Voir le sujet - [BRC] News - Infos - ... (2013) :: Sendrogne-Racing.be | Tout-le-rallye.be (http://www.tout-le-rallye.be/forum/topic37505-285.html)

[Sulland]

Reads on swedish rally site that Craig Breen has got a job as testdriver/ developer for the 208 R5. Cool.

[Mirek]

HEY !!!! Belgian driver/team owner Philipp Cracco has bought a 208 R5 ???? :eek:
Voir le sujet - [BRC] News - Infos - ... (2013) :: Sendrogne-Racing.be | Tout-le-rallye.be (http://www.tout-le-rallye.be/forum/topic37505-285.html)

That's a mockup. You can't buy something half a year before homologation :)

[tommeke_B]

HEY !!!! Belgian driver/team owner Philipp Cracco has bought a 208 R5 ???? :eek:
Voir le sujet - [BRC] News - Infos - ... (2013) :: Sendrogne-Racing.be | Tout-le-rallye.be (http://www.tout-le-rallye.be/forum/topic37505-285.html)
No. Not yet... ;) Philip just posted these photos on his personal facebook, to ask people what their opinion about the design was...

[Tom206wrc]

OK ;)

[Tom206wrc]

On the new Peugeot-Sport press release, we learn Craig Breen has already tested(recently)the 208 R5 and that in march drivers and teams can order their cars !!! :bounce:

[OldF]

Peugeot have probably speed up the development if the order books opens in March instead of original plan (second half of this year).

Press release:
Peugeot mdia - 208 Type R5 - Press Releases (http://peugeot-media.com/index.php?nav=816&action=view&communique_id=253&langue=en)

[Adler]

not sure if these are really news, because article is a couple of days online already, but didn´t read anything regarding Citröens R5 plans here....so...

tests of DS3 R5 will start in April

Citroën: R5 statt RRC*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/01/21/citroen-r5-statt-rrc/index.html)

Google Übersetzer (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-magazin.de%2Frallyes%2Fwm%2Fnachrichten%2Fnews-detail%2Fd%2F2013%2F01%2F21%2Fcitroen-r5-statt-rrc%2Findex.html&act=url)

[Tom206wrc]

I've read somewhere Citroën want their R5 to be ready for Rallye de France/Alsace WRC(symbolic choice me guesses) ;)

[Mirek]

Peugeot have probably speed up the development if the order books opens in March instead of original plan (second half of this year).

Press release:
Peugeot mdia - 208 Type R5 - Press Releases (http://peugeot-media.com/index.php?nav=816&action=view&communique_id=253&langue=en)

I don't think so. It's normal in motorsport that You can order something long time beforehand.

[bluuford]

Well, it was possible to rent Fiesta R5 from MM-Motorsport nearly month before the car even started testing

[Sulland]

Is there any confirmation that Proton is developing a R5 car? Just saw some rumours on that in another thread?

[Rasantes]

http://i46.tinypic.com/2vlld2p.jpg

[Rasantes]

http://i47.tinypic.com/hvwf3o.jpg

[dimviii]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/533830_575291222498471_1709502721_n.jpg

[darkstar]

who´s that?

[dimviii]

Andreucci

edit because we saw Andreucci in a photo before some days to collect his 208 chassis from France,probably this photo is from Peugeot sport headquarters

[RS]

Anyone see Breen in the 208 R5 on the Inside ERC programme? I missed it and can't find it on Youtube.

[Sulland]

When is that show airing on Eurosport, is it weekly?

[RS]

When is that show airing on Eurosport, is it weekly?

Usually a couple of days after each ERC rally.

[Kielder]

Finally, first WRC event of R5 will be Sardinia. First run of the car on 2nd March in Malcolm Wilson Rally (so the driver is... :p ). Homologation in June.

Fiesta R5 bei Malcolm-Wilson-Rally*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/int/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/02/13/fiesta-r5-bei-wilson-rally/index.html)

[Sulland]

What is the status of the Skoda R5, and the Peugeot these days?
Are there other brands that are planning R5s?

[Mirek]

Of course, first one to be homologated is Ford Fiesta, than Peugeot. For Škoda and others You will have to wait longer. Škoda will not come before March 2014.

[bluuford]

More on Fiesta here:
Google Translate (http://translate.google.ee/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.rallye-magazin.de/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Drallye-magazin.de%26hl%3Den%26tbo%3Dd%26biw%3D1280%26bih% 3D619&sa=X&ei=RAkcUffOEemn4ASp9IDwCw&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQ7gEwAA)

[Sulland]

I am guessing that Toyota will switch from S2000 to R5 on this programme:
Google Translate (http://translate.google.ee/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.rallye-magazin.de/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Drallye-magazin.de%26hl%3Den%26tbo%3Dd%26biw%3D1280%26bih% 3D619&sa=X&ei=RAkcUffOEemn4ASp9IDwCw&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQ7gEwAA)

[Tom206wrc]

Official, the 208 R5 changes its name and is now called: 208 T16 :D

[Mirek]

http://www.autosport.cz/img/clanky/b_41a24987aa8a4024abc1b43db5dd3033.jpghttp://www.autosport.cz/img/clanky/b_191654409d658534d9d6b5b52a42e5e1.jpg

[Kielder]

http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/58803_541823432514837_1610806283_n.jpg
http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/538272_541823455848168_821595808_n.jpg
http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/598428_541823442514836_1255856846_n.jpg

[RS]

I'm not keen on the 208 road car but that looks really nice!

Now want to see some more vidoes.

[PLuto]

Here you can see two official videos - Autosport (http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php?cl=14918)

[Kielder]

I've read many different comments on the decision of Peugeot to change the name of the 208, though IMO this is the best: flat-over-crest comment (http://www.worldrallyblog.com/2013/02/18/wrc-news/peugeot-208-r5-becomes-208-t16-prompts-massive-wave-of-nostalgia/#comment-2314)

I take advantage to post also a pic that I posted before, now with resolution of 7087x3744 (6'9MB):

http://images.caradisiac.com/logos/9/9/1/4/169914/S0-Rallye-la-Peugeot-208-R5-devient-208-T16-84612.jpg

[EightGear]

M-Sport won't homologate the R5 as was planned on April 1st... Only in July now.

Fiesta R5: Homologation verschoben*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/02/20/fiesta-r5-homologation-spaeter/index.html)

[Mirek]

Somehow expected development...

[makinen_fan]

Anyway What was the rush for them to homologate it early, without comprehensive testing. There are no competitors anyway for now, and the 208 R5 is planned for late autumn isn't it?

[Mirek]

I think that the rush was in purpose to sell as many cars as possible since it would be only one available so soon.

[stefanvv]

Anyway What was the rush for them to homologate it early, without comprehensive testing. There are no competitors anyway for now, and the 208 R5 is planned for late autumn isn't it?

True, but perhaps the reason is - money income

EDIT: Mirek is faster than me

[wwbroe]

Neuville was suposed to drive new R5 Fiesta in Ypres, but if homologation is not before 1st of july that won't happen probably.

[makinen_fan]

I think that the rush was in purpose to sell as many cars as possible since it would be only one available so soon.

Yes that's for sure, MW is always about the money!
Btw is the R5 expected to be faster than S2000 or the RRC Fiesta (I cannot remember if it was discussed previously here). If not, is there a reason for anyone jumping to the new category soon, since all cars are in the same class (apart from that the R5 is theoretically cheaper to run).

[liposh]

Btw is the R5 expected to be faster than S2000 or the RRC Fiesta (I cannot remember if it was discussed previously here). .
It should be faster, because FIA don´t want only cheaper alternative of S2000/1,6T S2000 but they also wants to totally replace this old cathegory with new R5...but we will see.

[Gordini]

Neuville was suposed to drive new R5 Fiesta in Ypres, but if homologation is not before 1st of july that won't happen probably.
Drive outside competition?

[Gordini]

Any news on Renault R5, maybe Gordini?

[Mirek]

Yes that's for sure, MW is always about the money!
Btw is the R5 expected to be faster than S2000 or the RRC Fiesta (I cannot remember if it was discussed previously here). If not, is there a reason for anyone jumping to the new category soon, since all cars are in the same class (apart from that the R5 is theoretically cheaper to run).

R5 will be sure faster.

[TyPat107]

R5 will be sure faster.

Why is that again Mirek? Do they get a larger restrictor? And R5 must have 5speed gear box correct? Are sequential allowed or only h-pattern dog box?

[Mirek]

Yes, basically thanks to the engine. It's going to be production based but with 32 mm restrictor they will be more powerful than S2000 and RRC cars. The 5-speed gearbox will be sequential. I don't see that as such a big issue. In the end it's a turbo car and in worse case they can sacrifice a bit of top speed. Otherwise it will be almost same with S2000 cars. All four suspension corners same is sure a kind of limitation but no so big in my opinion because the S2000 already had all four shock absorbers same.

[makinen_fan]

Whats the restrictor for the RRC and WRC cars now? Do you know if the Fiesta will use the same engine block for R5 as for the WRC car (it is a production engine, right?)?

[Mirek]

RRC is 30 mm, WRC 32 but both are significantly more advanced engines compared to R5. I estimate WRC power around 330 Hp and RRC around 275 Hp. I guess the R5 will be somewhere around 290 Hp right from the beginning (based on DS3 R3 power). I think that torque will be also somewhere between but closer to RRC than to WRC. RPM range shall be closer to WRC cars I think.

For Fiesta I don't know how much of stock eco-boost engine is used for WRC...

[makinen_fan]

Done a bit of search and came across this. Block is stock form eco-boost engine but head is custom based on 2.0L WRC engine's design.

Race Engine Technology - Dec/Jan 2012 (http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1wvd5/RaceEngineTechnology/resources/19.htm)

[adr17]

RRC is 30 mm, WRC 32 but both are significantly more advanced engines compared to R5. I estimate WRC power around 330 Hp and RRC around 275 Hp. I guess the R5 will be somewhere around 290 Hp right from the beginning (based on DS3 R3 power). I think that torque will be also somewhere between but closer to RRC than to WRC. RPM range shall be closer to WRC cars I think.

For Fiesta I don't know how much of stock eco-boost engine is used for WRC...

wrc is 33mm r5 32mm rrc 30mm

ford 2.0 gtdi engine reduced to 1.6

[adr17]

Done a bit of search and came across this. Block is stock form eco-boost engine but head is custom based on 2.0L WRC engine's design.

Race Engine Technology - Dec/Jan 2012 (http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1wvd5/RaceEngineTechnology/resources/19.htm)

this article is about wrc engine not r5
they are very differnt !!!!!!

[makinen_fan]

this article is about wrc engine not r5
they are very differnt !!!!!!

Yes i know, i posted it regarding my question and mirek's answer on whether the wrc engine is production based or not

[Mirek]

wrc is 33mm r5 32mm rrc 30mm

You are right, of course. My mistake in the post although my basic calculation was based on correct numbers. I just wrote it bad...

[A FONDO]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0OglJXXEko

:cool:

[RS]

Sounds not too bad for a Ford. Looking forward to seeing more.

[A FONDO]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoKYJ9X3n6c

[A FONDO]

6:23 :cool:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAoP6hdw7xo

[Kielder]

208 T16 at the Geneva Motor Show:

http://www.rallylife.cz/data/imgs/0024030l.jpg
http://www.rallylife.cz/data/imgs/0024031l.jpg

It looks really agressive!

[rallye-vid]

Citroen DS3 R5 @Portugal

Citroën stellt DS3 R5 vor*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/int/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/03/11/citroen-stellt-ds3-r5-vor/index.html)

[liposh]

Good news , but in fact it isn´t big problem to give P208 T16 just another coat from DS3 and do some kind of presentation during some rally. But first of all there will be P208R5T16 (I like it, it would be my new password for internetbanking :D ) and after the p208 will be well-tested then they will homologate DS3 R5.

[mousti]

MSport seems to have asked FIA for an exception to start with the R5 (with Neuville at the wheel) in Ypres. Malcolm said that this night at the Fiesta R5 customer launch.

[Mirek]

Photos of Fiesta R5 in pure white: www.AutoSport.CZ (http://forum.autosport.cz/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=742&start=120)

[Abarth]

Wilson should call Henning and give him a super deal on an ERC. He can match Citroen.

[Mirek]

Sorry but I don't get it? Which Citroën are speaking about? The only Citroën driver which is expected in the series (aside 2WD) is Robert Kubica who will do only 4 events - 2 of them on asphalt where Henning has no chance against Robert...

[catty]

Sorry but I don't get it? Which Citroën are speaking about? The only Citroën driver which is expected in the series (aside 2WD) is Robert Kubica who will do only 4 events - 2 of them on asphalt where Henning has no chance against Robert...
Henning Solberg wouldnt stand a chance on tar or gravel.
Abarth must be talking about some other Henning......

[skarderud]

Henning is not that bad on tarmac, remember he won the s2000 class in rally germany some years ago. He wasn't alone in the class :)

[Mirek]

Well, that was with WRC-style tyres which are not yet introduced in the ERC. First event with them will be Sanremo or something in Saptember. Till then there are classic slicks and with them I wouldn't bet on Henning, sorry ;)

[Mirek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joF-uSt086g

And as I wrote already in Czech tread - Jan Sýkora shall be one of the first private drivers to have Fiesta R5.

[br21]

Around 180k punds for Fiesta R5 from M-Sport, 25k for "small" spare parts package (national rallies), 100k for big spare parts package (complete transmission, etc)

úp cho ngÃ*y cu?i tu?n nÃ*o :D

[OldF]

About 180 000 £ (208 370 €) is imo a reasonable price. Is this the price for a complete car or the kit in boxes?

The Ford Fiesta S2000 is the most expensive S2000 so let’s see what the price of the Peugeot 208 T16 will be.

[cali]

Well, there's strong rumours that the first two Fiesta R5's will be shipped to MM Motorsport and Karl Kruuda will be the guy behind the wheel. They use 2 cars for ease logistics - one will stay in Europe and one will be in overseas.

[Mirek]

That's already several teams about which I heard they would be the first :D Let's see if the first is going to Estonia, Belgium, Czech republic or where :)

[cali]

Ofcourse you'll never know but that's the rumour I have heard from several sources now. We'll see ....

[Kielder]

Today Wilson Jr was testing the Fiesta R5 in Riudecanyes:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BFwAnRPCEAAx0jr.jpg:large

[A FONDO]

LOL what a beauty! It is like a completely different car. Tarmac setup RULES !

[Rasantes]

Very pretty. Tomorrow will continue to test, in the Coll de la Teixeta, also in Catalonia.

[Kielder]

:heart:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGpoQsKn3WU

[Arganil]

About 180 000 £ (208 370 €) is imo a reasonable price. Is this the price for a complete car or the kit in boxes?

The Ford Fiesta S2000 is the most expensive S2000 so let’s see what the price of the Peugeot 208 T16 will be.

Hard to believe that a complete R5 car will cost under 250.000€. Selling R5 cars, like S2000 before, will be a very profitable exercise to manus, contributing to their rally departments survival. Either way, aren't MSport cars always built by themselves? And will Peugeot Sport continue to sell cars in boxes allowing costumeurs to finished them?

[RS]

The Fiesta looks great and doesn't sound worse than the WRCar either. I am really pleased that the FIA decided to retain the "visual drama" on this cheaper category.

[wwbroe]

:heart:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGpoQsKn3WU

The car doesn't really look fast to me in this video, but i suppose that has more to do with the driver than with the car itself? :D

[liposh]

The car doesn't really look fast to me in this video, but i suppose that has more to do with the driver than with the car itself? :D

In my eyes it also seems that Kubica´s DS3 RRC (see pre-event tests for Rally Islas Canarias) is MUCH MORE better during accelerating from corners. But maybe it is really only in the driver. :D Anyway I am satisfied with whole this cathegory R5, good sound, good speed...it is real rally future.

[Jack4688`]

Looks plenty fast to me. Sounds great too.

I hope the people who run the BRC allow these cars in soon. Rather than the top category being the horrid little understeery Citroens and Fiesta R2s

As a side note, I remember when I first read about this category (when it was still referred to as R4T) and thought they were just going to be like R3Ts with four wheel drive underneath. Thank God they're nothing like that! Loud, fast and bulging at the wheel arches :D

[Rasantes]

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8376/8573793709_21ae787896_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8380/8574888828_6688640698_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8089/8574886280_6051449851_b.jpg

[Tom206wrc]

Any news who ordered a 208 T16 since it's possible to do so(on ordering paper) :confused:

[Mirek]

The sound is definitely interesting but overall I don't find the video impressive. Hard to judge how fast it is because on these roads even WRC cars look often slow and boring. Definitely it's nothing mind-blowing but that could have been hardly expected.

[OldF]

Hard to believe that a complete R5 car will cost under 250.000€. Selling R5 cars, like S2000 before, will be a very profitable exercise to manus, contributing to their rally departments survival. Either way, aren't MSport cars always built by themselves? And will Peugeot Sport continue to sell cars in boxes allowing costumeurs to finished them?

Difficult to say what final price will be. The base price of the Fiesta is 260 000 £ (303 900 €) and the Peugeot prices are for tarmac / gravel kits 264 000 € / 269 000 €.
Malcom said some time ago that the price would be between 200 000 £ - 250 000 £ (233 765 € - 292 205 €).

I think at least the price for the R5 engine will be a lot more affordable if the regulations are the same as for R3T. The gearbox could be cheaper (6 gear for S2000, 5 gear for R5) also. In general I think the Sadev gearbox and rear diff are cheaper than the Xtrac gearbox and rear diff.

The uprights will also be more affordable because they have to be machined instead S2000 welded ones. Brakes and suspension must be at least on same level (driveability) as for S2000 because they are both in the same class. Also the R5 steering column looks shorter in the pics. I can’t come up with any more major parts that could dramatically affect the price.

Malcom Wilson also said that 90% of the parts are different from the WRC car. Imo he should compare the S2000 and R5 instead because the S2000 and WRC don’t have many common parts as Christian Loriaux said here (http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5492&Itemid=2)

Q. How many parts are common to both the S2000 and the RS WRC?
A. We obtained plenty of data from the S2000 which competed in the S-WRC and other championships last year. We re-evaluated every area and if we thought certain areas could be improved, we went ahead and did so. Apart from the roll cage and chassis there aren't too many parts that the Fiesta RS WRC shares with the S2000. Plenty of parts may look similar, but they have been modified to be lighter, stiffer or whatever we felt would bring an improvement.

[Mirek]

Don't forget that both Fiesta WRC/RRC and S2000 are technically S2000 cars. Both is built under same regulations (there was an evolution to the 1.6T engine but the rule basis is still same). Sure the parts differ but that doesn't mean those are some fundamental differences rather than evolutions of same ideas. If we speak about "new" Fiesta S2000 which is called RRC and WRC than both is virtually same except few minor differences. The running cost of RRC and WRC must be almost same in my opinion (judging from engine rebuild price available on M-Sport webpage it's cca 3,5x more than for Fabia S2000!).

[Rasantes]

Full gallery of today test in Col de la Teixeta.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.538735192816355.1073741827.248428645180346&type=1


https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/481946_538735449482996_491692274_n.jpg


https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/157006_538742306148977_563178297_n.jpg


https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/482196_538752842814590_1513554679_n.jpg


https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/527568_538755496147658_330345919_n.jpg

[Rasantes]

Some details of Ford Fiesta R5.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/884384_349953928442350_19107903_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/904239_349953938442349_491980477_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/53786_349953741775702_1230851514_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/903278_349953398442403_2068865417_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/891754_349953418442401_1930722867_o.jpg

[Rasantes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IcpwiPHzm-4

[Mirek]

On gravel the car seems to be pretty spectacular, also nice sound. The gearbox seems to be really short due to the 5-speed limitation. How much the top speed in the video could be? 170km/h?

[OldF]

I watched the video yesterday on full screen and tried to get clear of the speedometer. The speedometer is so bright that’s difficult but imo I saw 179 km/h at some stage. I’m far from sure though.


Don't forget that both Fiesta WRC/RRC and S2000 are technically S2000 cars. Both is built under same regulations (there was an evolution to the 1.6T engine but the rule basis is still same). Sure the parts differ but that doesn't mean those are some fundamental differences rather than evolutions of same ideas. If we speak about "new" Fiesta S2000 which is called RRC and WRC than both is virtually same except few minor differences. The running cost of RRC and WRC must be almost same in my opinion (judging from engine rebuild price available on M-Sport webpage it's cca 3,5x more than for Fabia S2000!).

I haven’t forgot that WRC/RRC are cars built based on S2000 regulations. In the case where I said the amount of different parts of R5 should be compared to the Fiesta S2000 I meant the Fiesta S2000 NA. As Loriaux said there aren’t many parts common between the Fiesta WRC and the Fiesta S2000 NA although they’re both built by the same regulations. Evolutions of parts as you said Mirek.

If FIA have strict price for costs maybe the developers can still squeeze some cost compared to the S2000 NA cars.

M-Sport confirms it is building a Ford Fiesta R5 car - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102867)

“The R5 will be based on the 1.6 turbo Fiesta ST road car and use a lot of the design knowledge and experience generated from the S2000 and the World Rally Car. At the same time, it will be a new car with new engine, transmission, roll cage, fuel tank, electronics, all complying with the strict FIA regulations on design and costs.”

Imo the best way to control the prices of cars and spare parts would be to obligate the companies to put the prices on their websites as it would be more transparent.

[Rasantes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFobkKIvqyU

[dimviii]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GE5j7VLovBo

[Sulland]

The new Fiesta front actually looks a lot like the Abarth Grande Punto!

No testing on the 208 T16 yet?

[catty]

No testing on the 208 T16 yet?
Its testing all the time.
They are just doing things a lot more privately than M-Sport

[darkstar]

an interesting article about the 208 t16 ans the r5 category in general.

"the 208 t16 will be much faster then 207 s2000":

Google Übersetzer (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/int/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/03/29/208-t16-wird-deutlich-schneller/index.html)

[A FONDO]

"One of the main differences between R5 and Super 2000 is the fact that one has the R5 significantly less opportunity to homologate parts again. One can not bring annual Evostufe of the chassis or the engine, "says Peugeot Sport Director Bruno Famin. "The car has to be good from the start, and therefore we will wait with the homologation even until the last minute. And when we realize that it is better for the 1st to the Wait to January 2014, then we will not hesitate to move the appointment. The first shot has to sit really, because after the homologation you have to live with what you have. "

Does anybody here got an idea what is this supposed to mean? No updates at all; no updates on engine peripherals; no updates on engine block only?

[Mirek]

That means the number of jokers is very much limited. I'm now on ski and have no will to search for exact rules but compared to the S2000 which were already quite a lot limited by rules the R5 will be much more tied to the original homologation. The idea is that it will help to keep cost down. I'm not convinced about that though.

Anyway I'm sure this topic was discussed several times here on forum.

[OldF]

"One can not bring annual Evostufeof the chassis or the engine,....

As you remember (Rally car tech stuff) also the current RRC (S2000) / WRC cars, they have to use them for three years before any major new homologations. Maybe there are also more restrictions for R5 how often VO, ER homologations are allowed.

[Abarth]

Have FIA started to think like CIK, that are making 3 year cycluses on chassis and engines. So little or no change during a 3 year homologation periode.

Could be a way to do business in R5 as well. Homologation period 2014-2016 for instance?

[A FONDO]

As you remember (Rally car tech stuff) also the current RRC (S2000) / WRC cars, they have to use them for three years before any major new homologations. Maybe there are also more restrictions for R5 how often VO, ER homologations are allowed.

Well, when I am not sure, I am not worried to ask in order to make it clear. :) I couldn,t see anything about a particular period in the article, it is written like the car will stay the same 'til they introduce a new top category, perhaps this is from the google translating robot, the specifics of PR statement from the chief or the journalist who crafted the article.

About keeping the costs down, I see it as throwing dust in the eyes from FIA. If you need to build a reliable car, you must spend more money on extended tests before you issue the car. Also this cements the domination of the current manufacturers, because any new teams willing to build a competitive car from scratch are even more disadvantaged from not having an elaborated R&D crew with approximate collection of data from previous/similar cars.

[Mirek]

About keeping the costs down, I see it as throwing dust in the eyes from FIA. If you need to build a reliable car, you must spend more money on extended tests before you issue the car. Also this cements the domination of the current manufacturers, because any new teams willing to build a competitive car from scratch are even more disadvantaged from not having an elaborated R&D crew with approximate collection of data from previous/similar cars.

You didn't get the point. That is not to make it cheaper for development but for use by privateers. That has a logic because current system says that every erratum is mandatory for privateers in one year after it was homologated (if manufacturer didn't ask for longer period). In reality when factory decided to change something important because it could bring a fraction of s/km they did it. That's ok but the secondary effect was that all privateers had to buy the same new parts even if they didn't need them. The new R5 rules further decrease the number of jokers available through the "service life" of the car. That clearly says these cars are intended to be primarily used by privateers. Of course it makes the life of works teams a bit more difficult but it's same for all of them.

[Tom206wrc]

Kris Meeke in discussion with Peugeot-Sport to drive a 208 T16 :confused:

[Mirek]

He has been testing the car so why not :)

[Rasantes]

http://i50.tinypic.com/2ew329t.jpg

[mousti]

Citroën's R5 unveiling today or tomorrow??

[makinen_fan]

Presentation under way now in Portugal

[EightGear]

http://www.imgdumper.nl/uploads6/5165af40ba651/5165af40b19b9-citroen_r5.jpg

[Andre Oliveira]

http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/548525_10151354026140754_799211413_n.jpg

Rally-sport.fr

[Rasantes]

http://i48.tinypic.com/dbqjgx.jpg


http://i45.tinypic.com/2yx13yq.jpg

[mousti]

Lovely rallycar!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/68518_448056921940121_635433345_n.jpg

[dimviii]

rear fender
Photo by citroenracing • Instagram (http://instagram.com/p/X7z_BlhFwB/)

[dimviii]

wow!
http://i77.servimg.com/u/f77/14/82/87/95/52443610.jpg

http://instagram.com/p/X71ep5hFx1/

[tolis]

The Citroen Top Driver crews and the new gun!

http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/554173_10151387451622057_1104832591_n.jpg

[Allyc85]

Nice! The smaller rear wing makes the cars look so much better IMO :)

[stefanvv]

When this will be homologated?

[makinen_fan]

They plan to debut it as opening car in France and homologate 1st January 2014

http://www.maxrally.com/2013/04/10/rivals-reunited-in-r5-class

[dimviii]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/551190_379533265494126_690354452_n.jpganother angle
http://a.yfrog.com/img878/686/3p6re.jpg

[trickydicky]

That's a pretty little car in that paint scheme. Sorry for being a spanner, but what championship are these cars (R5) running in, the ERC?

[It's JM]

I wonder what pushed Citroën to build an R5 car? Before this, they never had any interest in building a high end, sub-WRC rally car (Super 2000).

One more from Dani Sordo's twitter:
http://i46.tinypic.com/2w4wwo7.jpg

[Mirek]

I wonder what pushed Citroën to build an R5 car? Before this, they never had any interest in building a high end, sub-WRC rally car (Super 2000).

Citroën announced the R5 already one year a go. It's easy task, they just transform the 208 R5 to another bodyshell. I don't expect many differences between the cars technical-wise.

In fact it's clever thing to do because with R5 there is very limited number of jokers (changes allowed during the service life) so having two homologations instead of one could give the PSA an upper hand over the competitors.

[trickydicky]

I wonder what pushed Citroën to build an R5 car? Before this, they never had any interest in building a high end, sub-WRC rally car (Super 2000).


To be fair the ERC is about as well covered as the WRC now, and has lots of private entries to sell to. Plus, I don't know if the Tour de Corse is maybe a big deal in the French media still, and they want to win it over Peugeot or Renault?

[liposh]

To be fair the ERC is about as well covered as the WRC now, and has lots of private entries to sell to. Plus, I don't know if the Tour de Corse is maybe a big deal in the French media still, and they want to win it over Peugeot or Renault?

Very easy: Citroen has some agreement with Abu Dhabi about the WRC program, but once this agreement ends in future, Citroen will leave WRC and they will focus only on regional championships etc.

[trickydicky]

fair enough

[vino_93]

To be fair the ERC is about as well covered as the WRC now, and has lots of private entries to sell to. Plus, I don't know if the Tour de Corse is maybe a big deal in the French media still, and they want to win it over Peugeot or Renault?

In the French media, rally is no more a big deal - even MC or Rallye de France.

[It's JM]

Citroën announced the R5 already one year a go. It's easy task, they just transform the 208 R5 to another bodyshell. I don't expect many differences between the cars technical-wise.

In fact it's clever thing to do because with R5 there is very limited number of jokers (changes allowed during the service life) so having two homologations instead of one could give the PSA an upper hand over the competitors.

I must have missed out on that announcement, although I wasn't really following WRC news in-depth now as I was last year, nor the year before that. But I see what you're getting at. With 2 of basically the same cars, they have a technological advantage over the rest of the field.

Also, are there any other manufacturers that have expressed interest in building an R5 car? (e.g. Mini - if the current out of control bus can be stopped, Skoda, Renault, Toyota....Hyundai? )

[Mirek]

In that time the information was included in some interview with Matton or somebody else from Citroën I think, not some official presentation.

In the moment I think Peugeot/Citroën, M-Sport, Škoda, Renault and maybe Opel are working on R5. Of course I'm not sure :) Hyundai sure not, at least Michelle Nandan said so several times. I don't expect anything about Mini and I know nothing about Toyota.

[liposh]

In that time the information was included in some interview with Matton or somebody else from Citroën I think, not some official presentation.

In the moment I think Peugeot/Citroën, M-Sport, Škoda, Renault and maybe Opel are working on R5. Of course I'm not sure :) Hyundai sure not, at least Michelle Nandan said so several times. I don't expect anything about Mini and I know nothing about Toyota.

I think this whole new cathegory R5 will be successful (also economically) so if some factory like Opel or Honda hesitates these days and waiting with their final decision about this point, they will finally do it and develop R5 car (it is just my opinion). Moreover Opel started Motorsport program with that Adam cup cars and they are doing pretty well so I think step by step...Adam R2...Corsa R3...Corsa R5 ;) Fingers crossed.

[Sulland]

Swedish site emotorsport.se reports that R5 might take over from WRCar as top class from 2016/17.
Makes sense, but could happen even sooner in my book.

[RS]

As well as testing the 208 R5, Kris Meeke will be involved in the development of the Citroen DS3 R5 too (if that's a difference!)

Anyhow, let's hope he gets some ERC events with one or both of these manufacturers.

M-Sport are hoping to run the Fiesta R5 as course car on Corsica and then on Ypres as a proper entry if given FIA dispensation.

[rallyfun]

Swedish site emotorsport.se reports that R5 might take over from WRCar as top class from 2016/17.
Makes sense, but could happen even sooner in my book.

They (FIA) keep changing rules, their minds, downgrading cars for sake of reduction money and bringing more drivers and teams to WRC but at the same time they are planning to do 6 events outside Europe increasing costs. I am not sure if all those changes (introducing 1600 cars) brought more drivers in top cars than lets say it was in 2007. People close to rally teams say new WRC cars are not cheaper than old WRC 2000, RRC are only little cheaper than WRC cars.

[OldF]

Swedish site emotorsport.se reports that R5 might take over from WRCar as top class from 2016/17.
Makes sense, but could happen even sooner in my book.

The news was also posted by makinen_fan in the “News and rumours” thread.

Google Translate (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-magazin.de%2Frallyes%2Fwm%2Fnachrichten%2Fnews-detail%2Fd%2F2013%2F04%2F15%2Fwrc-abloesung-durch-r5%2Findex.html)

Everything related to WRC have a habit to get expensive.

[Tom206wrc]

I'm soooo happy to see Kris Meeke back to Peugeot :bounce:

[noel157]

I'm soooo happy to see Kris Meeke back to Peugeot :bounce:

And Citroen too Tom... :)

[Kielder]

Meeke & Breen driving the 208 T16: Peugeot Sport - RALLYE - mediatheque (http://www.peugeot-sport.com/fr/rallye/mediatheque.html?type=video&id=384&titre=208-t16-poursuit-sa-campagne)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Meeke & Breen driving the 208 T16: Peugeot Sport - RALLYE - mediatheque (http://www.peugeot-sport.com/fr/rallye/mediatheque.html?type=video&id=384&titre=208-t16-poursuit-sa-campagne)

Great stuff... cant wait for the 208T16 to replace the ancient 207...

[noel157]

Good video, always good to see such "press releases". Wonder who is sitting with Meeke? Maybe sharing Nagle with Breen or maybe Brannigan or a Patterson.

Asphalt testing soon I presume.

[Mirek]

Really nice, sound and appearance, all seems to be good :)

[Jack4688`]

Looks great, where was that filmed? It looks a bit like Cairngorms & Trossachs i.e. where the stages for Rally of Scotland were

[noel157]

Testing is near Auxerre and also in the south of French near Toulouse..

[Kielder]

The Fiesta R5 will debut in Ypres with Neuville at the wheel: Fiesta R5-Debüt mit Neuville*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/int/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/05/03/fiesta-r5-debuet-mit-neuville/)

[wwbroe]

The Fiesta R5 will debut in Ypres with Neuville at the wheel: Fiesta R5-Debüt mit Neuville*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/int/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/05/03/fiesta-r5-debuet-mit-neuville/)

I think that is far from being sure, they need derogation from FIA, so the other brands will have to agree with the Fiesta R5 competing in Ypres. I have to see that first, don't think for example Skoda will agree with that.

[makinen_fan]

Colin McMaster of McKlein reports that Elfyn Evans will drive the Fiesta R5 in the Pirelli Rally this weekend:

@colmcklein: Just discovered Elfyn Evans is here, giving Fiesta R5 its competitive debut on the Pirelli National rally.

[makinen_fan]

http://www.ralsys.com/irally_admin/news_images/2013ElfynEvansR5Fiesta.jpg

[makinen_fan]

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/940895_653127601369595_1251861937_n.jpg

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/946259_653127621369593_50981897_n.jpg

[Tom206wrc]

Weird to see Pirelli and Michelin on same car :p :

[noel157]

Footage from Evans in the R5 on the Pirelli Richard Burns rally at the weekend:

Pirelli Rally 2013 Elfyn Evans - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcxU6un1a7c)

[Mirek]

Any times for him? Was there even somebody to compare with?

[Jack4688`]

There wouldn't be. BRC is a joke nowadays, FWD only.... yawn

There may have been national competitors (although BRC outright is now national only too) right towards the back of the field in Scoobies or Evos but not of the kind of level worth comparing to Elfyn Evans.

[Andre Oliveira]

Eyvind Brynildsen con un Fiesta R5 en Finlandia - Motor y Racing (http://www.motoryracing.com/wrc/noticias/eyvind-brynildsen-fiesta-r5-finlandia/)

[mousti]

FIA has denied the approval to homologate the Fiesta R5 before 1st of July and so the plan of Neuville competing with the R5 in Ypres is gone :-(

[RS]

^^^ Why would anybody click like on that? :(

Zero car then? Or RRC would be nice too :)

[A FONDO]

some people give a "Like" to thank the poster for sharing the news, even if it is not a good one

[EightGear]

^^^ Why would anybody click like on that? :(

Zero car then? Or RRC would be nice too :)

Zero car depends, after all Skoda is a sponsor of the event. He will be zero car on Corsica too though.

[zajic]

^^^ Why would anybody click like on that? :(

Zero car then? Or RRC would be nice too :)

As Thierry said for german Rallye Magazin, RRC has no sense, because it will cost money. The only possibility to start on Ypres was R5 testing/premiere.

[RS]

As Thierry said for german Rallye Magazin, RRC has no sense, because it will cost money. The only possibility to start on Ypres was R5 testing/premiere.

Pity. I guess we can see an official Fiesta R5 and 208 R5 maybe on Sanremo though..

[Mirek]

I guess that there is a good chance to see Fiesta R5 with factory guys in events where they run Fiesta Trophy (that is also Barum and Poland). Here in our championship it looks like Rally Bohemia (mid July) will be a place for premiere of Fiesta R5 with Jan Sýkora.

[mousti]

Autonews Magazine » Rallye international » Neuville à Ypres en Fiesta R5, c (http://www.autonews-magazine.com/blog/?p=30959)

They report now that Corse as a course car is also a No Go.. Because Peugeot is official partner of the rally...??

But Skoda wouldn't make a problem if it would be driven as a course car in Ypres, so maybe..

[Vaggelis27]

I believe that 208 R5 is more powerfull from Fiesta but it's early to compare....

[rallye-vid]

Some news about Fiesta R5:

Google Übersetzer (http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-magazin.de%2Frallyes%2Fint%2Fnachrichten%2Fnews-detail%2Fd%2F2013%2F05%2F17%2Fm-sport-r5-geschaeft-laeuft-an%2Findex.html)

[WRCKE]

there is nothing confirmed for ypres if they can start or not

[Vaggelis27]

If Thierry drive it,will be as zero car.But we don't know anything else..

[OldF]

Has this video been posted here earlier?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c01AIJmTYg&feature=youtu.be

[AdvEvo]

What s the pricing going to be on the R5 cars. I heard it s going over the 200.000 euro s also. Why make the cars so expensive.

Seat sport can make a fantastic wide body race car for aproxx 80.000 euro.

It would make the rally sport so much bigger if they could build a 4wd rally car with very low maintance cost for under 100.000 euro.

Group N is almost death we need someting to replace it for the same sort of money and 4wd.

[TheFlyingTuga]

I heard the Fiesta price is around 280.000! But in the plus side, renting a R5 is somehow cheaper than renting a Subaru R4 for example...

[Mirek]

What s the pricing going to be on the R5 cars. I heard it s going over the 200.000 euro s also. Why make the cars so expensive.

Seat sport can make a fantastic wide body race car for aproxx 80.000 euro.

It would make the rally sport so much bigger if they could build a 4wd rally car with very low maintance cost for under 100.000 euro.

Group N is almost death we need someting to replace it for the same sort of money and 4wd.
You can of course build cheap car for one make cups without competition from others such as the Seat however in rallying there is more than one brand involved so the development cost grows as high as the wealthiest player is able to spend. It's cheap to get on let's say 80% performance which is possible under some formula but every step further is more and more difficult and expensive. It may happen that creating a 5% faster car costs 4x more. It's just an example but it's like that.

We can't compare with gr.N cars. That's something completely different, let's call it a relic of old times which will never come back. We shall stop dreaming about raising new gr.A era because the car market moved upside down through the years and there is no hunger for road-going rally cars anymore.

What could help privateers is to allow free suppliers of particular parts if those comply with homologated dimensions and weights. However that will not be welcome by car makers who took the toll of development. Everyone can produce a cheap copy of something if he didn't need to take the expense of development.

[Sulland]

What are the chances for getting to see a Japanese R5 in the coming years?
Would be good if at least 1 of the 3 japanese rally manufacturers would come back to top level again!

[stefanvv]

What are the chances for getting to see a Japanese R5 in the coming years?
Would be good if at least 1 of the 3 japanese rally manufacturers would come back to top level again!

Toyota might be heading to it probably

[Vaggelis27]

R5 Ford Fiesta to make WRC debut in Finland with Elfyn Evans - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107627)

[mousti]

But first out of competition in Ypres. Hope it's right.

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk 2

[Rasantes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we3ke7To12g

[RS]

Why are they testing the R5 engine in an R3 car when the R5 has already been presented?

[Mirek]

The R5 presented was just a show car not a real one.

Anyway this overpowered FWD is a car for real man. I like it :) By the way I think it's a road which Peugeot normally use for pre-Barum testing, very Czechish :-D

[stefanvv]

So it's not going to be 208R5 under DS3 bodyshell, they're building the engine (and gearbox?) too

[RS]

But I thought the DS3 R5 had actually already been tested by Meeke?

[Mirek]

It was probably only engine-related test (durability?) so why not to use existing R3 when the engine is maybe 90% identical?

[Sulland]

Any news on the Skoda R5 Mirek, have they started on the engine and/or suspension package on a mule?
When will the motorsport dept be given a new version Fabia shell to build and test with?

[RS]

It was probably only engine-related test (durability?) so why not to use existing R3 when the engine is maybe 90% identical?

I suppose it's better than a test bench.. but I can't say I share your enthusiasm for that video Mirek. The sound is nice, but it's not revvy enough and the handling with the front wheel drive car is dull even if it has too much power.

[RS]

Any news on the Skoda R5 Mirek, have they started on the engine and/or suspension package on a mule?
When will the motorsport dept be given a new version Fabia shell to build and test with?

I'm sure officially they "haven't made a decision" on whether to develop an R5 car ;)

[Jack4688`]

Any news on the Skoda R5 Mirek, have they started on the engine and/or suspension package on a mule?
When will the motorsport dept be given a new version Fabia shell to build and test with?


I'm sure officially they "haven't made a decision" on whether to develop an R5 car ;)

Has anybody entertained the idea that they may base their R5 machine on the Rapid? 3151

[Racing Ka]

DS3 R3 should have that kind of engine setup allways.

[Mirek]

The sound is nice, but it's not revvy enough and the handling with the front wheel drive car is dull even if it has too much power.

R5 are limited to 7500 rpm for durability reasons.


I'm sure officially they "haven't made a decision" on whether to develop an R5 car ;)

;)


Any news on the Skoda R5 Mirek, have they started on the engine and/or suspension package on a mule?
When will the motorsport dept be given a new version Fabia shell to build and test with?

Fabia R5 will not come earlier than mid-2014, maybe even 2015. It's possible we will not see the new bodyshell until the stock car is revealed (Geneve 2014 I guess). The development is ongoing for quite some time already. The test mule is sure the current Fabia S2000.


Has anybody entertained the idea that they may base their R5 machine on the Rapid?

It will be Fabia 100%. Rapid is too big. The Rapid from Wörthersee is really nice but it's nothing more but showcar...

[RS]

Has anybody entertained the idea that they may base their R5 machine on the Rapid? 3151

I now have a Rapid on my drive, but not the sport alas. Hoping the 'Spaceback' version may have some of the items from the showcar though, even if it's just interior and a more mild bodykit.

[RS]

Fabia R5 will not come earlier than mid-2014, maybe even 2015. It's possible we will not see the new bodyshell until the stock car is revealed (Geneve 2014 I guess). The development is ongoing for quite some time already. The test mule is sure the current Fabia S2000.


Are they using a base engine which is not even in production yet (1.6tsi) or are they allowed to enlargen already existing engines under R5 rules?

[Mirek]

I don't know. Could be also 1.8TSI with shorter stroke.

[Jack4688`]

It will be Fabia 100%. Rapid is too big. The Rapid from Wörthersee is really nice but it's nothing more but showcar...

Yeah its just a concept but that version with it's flared wheelarches shows how it could look. I didn't think it would be too big - it's based on the Polo/Fabia etc platform just stretched a bit. The other thing is as there hasn't been any official announcement from Skoda we don't know with any certainty what they're doing regarding their R5 car...

[Mirek]

Believe me I know what I'm talking about. It's going to be Fabia III. The development is well underway but due to the timing of stock car project it will take long time to get on stages.

Rapid is almost as long as Octavia WRC, longer than Evo X or Impreza STI. No way it could be suitable for building R5.

[Jack4688`]

Ahhhh would have been nice to see though.

Is the next Fabia going to look something like this (http://motoroids.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/2014-Skoda-Fabia-launch.jpg)?

If it does that will look fantastic as an R5

[Mirek]

I don't know how it will look like but it may be quite similar to this photoshop.

[RS]

The new Fabia road car will be lower and wider than the current model and will have a front end similar to that at least.

[Jack4688`]

...lower and wider...

That's good, too many cars these days are tall and narrow (like the Fiesta) but still look great as rally cars with flared arches. Lets hope the new Fabia will look even better than anything else out there in R5 form :D

[Rasantes]

Very very fast!


http://youtu.be/s2b2c4Wbc-A

[stefanvv]

The engine doesn't sound quite adjusted yet :confused:

[Mirek]

Can You elaborate Your thoughts?

[stefanvv]

Well, it interrupts quite often on low revs, that's what bugged me

[liposh]

Some people says new Fabia III will be just Rapid in hatchback version. (same front lights, same mask)

[Mirek]

Some people says new Fabia III will be just Rapid in hatchback version. (same front lights, same mask)

That's not true at all.

[RS]

Some people says new Fabia III will be just Rapid in hatchback version. (same front lights, same mask)

That is the Rapid Spaceback which is coming shortly :)

Fabia3 is on the MQB platform so will be a totally different car.

[noel157]

The R5 presented was just a show car not a real one.

Anyway this overpowered FWD is a car for real man. I like it :) By the way I think it's a road which Peugeot normally use for pre-Barum testing, very Czechish :-D

Yes, usual test area in Alsace region I think.

[wwbroe]

Yes, usual test area in Alsace region I think.

That is correct, it is testbase in Saint Dié en Vosges, we've been there before. :D