Rally2 (ex-R5) News

[RS]

https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/press-releases/next-generation-rally2-version-of-skoda-fabia-has-entered-test-phase/

New Fabia has already tested on tarmac and gravel in Spain, France and CZ. Mikelssen and Lindholm tested as well as already known Kopecky, Tidemand and Meeke.

[mknight]

So that was the test in Spain Mikkelsen mentioned. He didn't say anything else than "going to test" and no pics.


Anyway still haven't seen anything about proposed homologation date. First realistic date could be before next season, but that's maybe not enough time?

[RS]

Anyway still haven't seen anything about proposed homologation date. First realistic date could be before next season, but that's maybe not enough time?

Skoda usually like to test a lot before homologating a new car so I would be surprised if it was as early as January 1st.

[Jarek Z]

Andrea Crugnola is testing his new Hyundai i20 N Rally2 before Rally del Friuli Venezia Giulia. It will be the debut of this car on Italian stages:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCeOst-B4qc

Entry list:
https://www.rallyalpiorientali.it/docs/2021/A21%20Elenco%20Iscritti%20moderne.pdf

[Co-driven]

Anyway still haven't seen anything about proposed homologation date. First realistic date could be before next season, but that's maybe not enough time?

I heard at Rally di Roma that not before mid-2022, and most probably on last quarter of 2022, car should be homologated.

[mknight]

That sounds a bit extensive.

Since mild-hybrid should come in 2023 the car then needs to be ready for that. So far they talked about 10 hp hybrid using 48V battery so it's obviously much easier than in Rally1, but still weight distribution, engine mapping optimalization and maybe gearbox will have to be ready.

[Co-driven]

One of the reasons for the delay is related to suppliers not being able to deliver parts on time as a consequence of lack of materials because of all the covid situation.

[pantealex]

I heard at Rally di Roma that not before mid-2022, and most probably on last quarter of 2022, car should be homologated.

That´s damn late because old Fabia Rally2 is already out of production ...
(spare chassis is still available for crashed ones)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Gryazin on Fiesta switch:
We've reached the point where we have to decide which direction to go in 2022 and beyond,” he told wrc.com. “As the Polo does not evolve, we have decided to change it for the years to come. One of our options is to continue with the Fiesta.

“I really liked the Fiesta's performance on gravel (and also on asphalt) this year and would love to drive it to see for myself. M-Sport will provide us with the car. We will be under their wings in Greece but always as a competitor of Movisport. It will be a difficult experience because the car and even the rally will be new to me. But I'm ready and can't wait to fight with the other fast drivers.”

[Jarek Z]

Not bad! Crugnola leads Rally del Friuli Venezia Giulia after 2 stages. He is 14 seconds faster than Luca Rossetti:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/68762-rally-del-friuli-venezia-giulia-2021/

[Jarek Z]

And... yes! The first overall win for the new Hyundai is a fact! Congratulations to Andrea Crugnola! :)
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/68762-rally-del-friuli-venezia-giulia-2021/

[Ucci]

And... yes! The first overall win for the new Hyundai is a fact! Congratulations to Andrea Crugnola! :)
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/68762-rally-del-friuli-venezia-giulia-2021/
After more than 10 years I was again as a spectator on this beautiful event; and yes, new i20 Rally 2 had a perfect start in Italy. Rossetti was powerless against Crungola...

[RS]

That sounds a bit extensive.

Since mild-hybrid should come in 2023 the car then needs to be ready for that. So far they talked about 10 hp hybrid using 48V battery so it's obviously much easier than in Rally1, but still weight distribution, engine mapping optimalization and maybe gearbox will have to be ready.

Does it though? Just because they can homologate such a car from 2023 it doesn’t mean they have to run one I guess.

[mknight]

Basically the 10 hp/48v battery is the only thing I ever heard about the rally2 hybrids, so no idea what's going to happen.

Guess "everyone" would be very angry if they suddenly forbade old R5/Rally2 since there are thousand(s) of them running ( unlike some less than 100 WRCs when those were kicked).

So the hybrid can't be slower than the old cars (unless they for example reduce restrictor of the old ones).
How much would a 10hp engine and "tiny" (just to help when shifting, or to replace ALS) battery weight? Maybe 40 kg?
Is there enough "dead" weight in Rally2s that could be exchanged for this? ( maybe if ALS is removed ?)

[TheFlyingTuga]

As far as I understand the system will be able to be put in every R5/Rally 2 and will be mandatory from 2023. The first cars (Fiesta, 208 and DS3) will be out of homologation by then

[Mirek]

No. You can't retrofit that to already produced cars. They were not designed for that.

mknight is correct - the hybrids must be faster than the normal R5/Rally2 cars otherwise it can not work (uneless they go completely crazy and ban the normal R5/Rally2 which IMHO is not an option).

[TheFlyingTuga]

Thank you!

I thought that the system was to everyone. It's really strange, however I guess Ford, Hyundai and Skoda are already developing their cars with the system in mind. Citroen is said to be making a new car for 2023

[Mirek]

I thought that the system was to everyone.

You can not design a car for incorporating something which doesn't exist even on paper at the time. The rules for hybrids didn't exist when Fiesta and all older cars were developped. New i20 N or Fabia IV are probably designed so that they can be modified into hybrid but hundreds of cars in use were not.

[Jarek Z]

The winning car, that won 3 out of 6 stages:
http://www.rallylink.it/cms20/images/easyblog_articles/2956/b2ap3_large_CRUGNOLA.jpg
http://www.rallylink.it/cms20/images/easyblog_articles/2955/b2ap3_large_CRUGNOLA.jpg

[Sulland]

Why does it take organizers so long to update point standing after Rallys?
are there times for protests and so on that prevent them to update?

Anyway, they could call them provisional or unofficial until all is ok with the formalities.

[Jarek Z]

ERC points system is very complex. Maybe they have problem with maths? ;)

[Jarek Z]

Not a spectacular debut of the new Hyundai i20 N Rally2 in ERC. Martin Vlcek was only 12th overall, 8 minutes behind the winner.

https://scontent.fktw4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/240866409_242185884575313_1135260716813019016_n.jp g?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=wLn2G24Yi54AX8nptVH&_nc_ht=scontent.fktw4-1.fna&oh=c33eac09bdf02bf39a9a9939247c4ed3&oe=61516017

[EstWRC]

Never heard of the guy, is he good?

It depends a lot of the driver.

[marcosg]

I think he's not the best driver to judge car performance

Enviado do meu SM-G985F através do Tapatalk

[mknight]

He is the boss or KOWAX racing (Huttunens team the last few years).

I'd say he was about as fast as one would expect him with the old i20.

[Mirek]

He is the boss or KOWAX racing (Huttunens team the last few years).

I'd say he was about as fast as one would expect him with the old i20.

He used to be somewhat more competitive few years back but since his heavy injury from Barum 2019 crash he seems to drive slower.

[mknight]

KOWAX boss says in an interview from Barum that the new I20 has about 16hp less than the old one, but it's much easier to drive.

[PLuto]

Why does it take organizers so long to update point standing after Rallys?
are there times for protests and so on that prevent them to update?

Anyway, they could call them provisional or unofficial until all is ok with the formalities.

If you are talking about ERC standings after Barum, I was on podium till the night and then moved to afterparty. After all other ERC rallies standings is updated in the night after finish of race.

[Jarek Z]

If someone wants to have a closer look at the new Hyundai, 10 photos of Crugnola's car can be seen below:
https://www.rallylink.it/cms20/index.php/1000miglia-2021?start=9#gallery41cf358a49-1

[mknight]

Speedwise Crugnola seems pretty much exactly as fast with new car as with the old.

Then again smooth Italian tarmac was basically the best surface for the old car.

[Jarek Z]

Ollie Mellors and his Proton Iriz R5 were second overall in Three Shires Stages 2021. Mellors was leading until the penultimate stage, but lost the last stage and the whole rally by 3 seconds.

Final results:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/70111-hills-ford-three-shires-stages-2021/

Some photos:

https://www.facebook.com/MellorsElliot/posts/4263800580406342

https://www.facebook.com/MellorsElliot/posts/4262186347234432

https://www.facebook.com/MellorsElliot/posts/4263053933814340

[Sulland]

I like the initiative from the Mellors with Proton, both the S2000 and the R5.

But it would be nice to see them in ERC with a top driver, to get it measured towards the class top dogs.
That was the plan before corona, so I hope that is still the plan. If the price is right, and lower than Skoda, Ford and Hyundai they could sell a good few to national series.

[Mirek]

Somewhat expected but still interesting to see that the old Fabia keeps to be the dominating car on rough gravel.

On the other hand I'm really negatively surprised how slow Gryazin is with the Fiesta compared to his usual pace (or maybe it's because he doesn't ris that much as usual).

[polo10]

Somewhat expected but still interesting to see that the old Fabia keeps to be the dominating car on rough gravel.

On the other hand I'm really negatively surprised how slow Gryazin is with the Fiesta compared to his usual pace (or maybe it's because he doesn't ris that much as usual).
Is not so old the EVO. Fabia was the best R5 builded until now...

[AnttiL]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hybrid-not-expected-in-rally2-cars-for-next-three-years/

Hybrid not expected in Rally2 cars

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ollie Mellors and his Proton Iriz R5 were second overall in Three Shires Stages 2021. Mellors was leading until the penultimate stage, but lost the last stage and the whole rally by 3 seconds.

Final results:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/70111-hills-ford-three-shires-stages-2021/

Some photos:

https://www.facebook.com/MellorsElliot/posts/4263800580406342

https://www.facebook.com/MellorsElliot/posts/4262186347234432

https://www.facebook.com/MellorsElliot/posts/4263053933814340

Good to see them come back after that huge crash on the 'Grist'.

They are certainly dedicated to the Iriz R5 but I honestly cant see many takers when there are so many used proven R5's out there.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hybrid-not-expected-in-rally2-cars-for-next-three-years/

Hybrid not expected in Rally2 cars

More on the P1 'sustainable' racing fuel:

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-wrc-switches-100-sustainable-fuel-2022-p1-racing-fuels-exclusive-provider

[Mirek]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hybrid-not-expected-in-rally2-cars-for-next-three-years/

Hybrid not expected in Rally2 cars

A clash with reality. Unlike with the Rally1 cars the manufacturers need to persuade the customers to buy their Rally2 cars and the simple fact is that they can't selll what no-one wants. At least Škoda Motorsport and M-Sport are dependent on doing profitable business with rally cars and the hybrids are not going to help them in that.

[RS]

Meeke testing new Fabia in Finland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah6CS4Ua6Io

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb-_zk-wwbM

[mknight]

Skoda says August 2022 homologation target for new Fabia.

Isn't that really late if they already stopped making new chassis of the current one? Do they
aim for not selling any new cars for almost a year?

[Jarek Z]

Maybe they are busy celebrating? ;)
https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/series/120-years-of-skoda-motorsport/

[Kenneth]

I'm just guessing, but I guess they don't want to hurry up things, and I bet they would still build new cars, but they are still part of the corporate and new gen Fabia is already being sold.

[Mirek]

Skoda says August 2022 homologation target for new Fabia.

Isn't that really late if they already stopped making new chassis of the current one? Do they
aim for not selling any new cars for almost a year?

They are going to win both WRC2 and ERC and maybe even WRC3 without being involved on the works level themselves. That means they don't need to hurry. Besides that I heard the new car was still far from being ready.

[mknight]

As you seemingly haven't noticed I am talking about car sales from now until next August. Not about performance.

I totally get there is no rush to homologate early from performance perspective. But what about people coming and wanting to buy a new car?
The easiest would be to continue making the current car a bit longer, is that going to happen and is it even possible?

[Mirek]

As you seemingly haven't noticed I am talking about car sales from now until next August. Not about performance.

I totally get there is no rush to homologate early from performance perspective. But what about people coming and wanting to buy a new car?
The easiest would be to continue making the current car a bit longer, is that going to happen and is it even possible?

If they homologate problematic or slow car the entire business will be ruined because as you know under Rally2 regulations you have little chances to fix things. The car must be perfect right from the start or it will never become perfect. The effect of rushed entry would be a much bigger disaster than coming half a year later.

As for the current cars - I guess they still have some chassis available but that's only my guessing.

[RS]

Lindholm test: https://youtu.be/tebGoj2SCds

Looking better here.. during Meeke's test the car looked a little heavy.

[pantealex]

Lindholm test: https://youtu.be/tebGoj2SCds

Looking better here.. during Meeke's test the car looked a little heavy.

Emil did drive 2 full days after Meeke.

[mknight]

In rally Finland guys that have money and want to do a result - Suninen and Gryazin, drive Polos.
Surely especially Gryazin could easily hire Fabia from SRT just like Lukyanuk did, since he is already hiring Polo from them. And he seemingly has all the time (and money) to test beforehand (1 day + 2 day national rally + at least 1 day after).

Similarly Lappi could certainly drive Fabia if he wanted in Arctic and Portugal.

So following post-Estonia discussion, does this mean they are all stupid and picking the worse car?

[pantealex]

SRT=Gryazin, they don´t hire those cars, they own those.

Some places Fabia is better and some places Polo is better.

[Jarek Z]

In rally Finland guys that have money and want to do a result - Suninen and Gryazin, drive Polos.

On the other hand, if you look at the standings of ERC:
https://www.fiaerc.com/standings-2/

and WRC3:
https://www.wrc.com/en/results-standings/championship-standings/seasons/championship-standings/season-2021/wrc3/

you will see that actually nobody drives Polos.

In WRC2 there are Gryazin, Lappi and Suninen, but they don't count in this championship.

[mknight]

Personally from following rallies and rumors from drivers my impression is that Fabia is the most allround car (= best in a mixed championship).

Polo seems better on fast and smooth rallies, especially those with constant conditions, less so if conditions are mixed (wet/dry) and/or if the road gets very rutted.

Thing is that after I wrote something similar before Estonia and Fabias won both WRC2 and WRC3 in Estonia, there were some loud voices how Fabia is best also on fast rallies. Gryazins and Suninens car choice in Finland contradict this.

[RS]

Mikkelsen has been testing the new Fabia too:

https://youtu.be/9v48u_tPz9c

[RS]

Personally from following rallies and rumors from drivers my impression is that Fabia is the most allround car (= best in a mixed championship).

Polo seems better on fast and smooth rallies, especially those with constant conditions, less so if conditions are mixed (wet/dry) and/or if the road gets very rutted.

Thing is that after I wrote something similar before Estonia and Fabias won both WRC2 and WRC3 in Estonia, there were some loud voices how Fabia is best also on fast rallies. Gryazins and Suninens car choice in Finland contradict this.

I'm sure Lukyanuk would have been very quick in Estonia in a Polo too, perhaps even quicker.

It makes sense that a car with a longer wheelbase would be good on fast rallies. On the other hand the Fabia looled very nimble on the twistier roads on Acropolis and Azores, quick direction changes.

[Mirek]

SRT=Gryazin, they don´t hire those cars, they own those.

Some places Fabia is better and some places Polo is better.

In theory (mine) Polo should be better for very fast gravel/snow while Fabia shall be better for rough, slow and twisty stuff.

But I guess that the main issue with Polo is the end of VW Motorsport development. Few people logically want to invest in a car with no future.

[RallyFan13]

Volkswagen Polo GTI R5 car Chassis 58 of Nasser AlAttiyah destroyed by fire in Cyprus Rally
Subscribe on our YouTube channel for rally videos
https://youtu.be/7s-TeZPdx9Q

[Jarek Z]

Volkswagen Polo GTI R5 car Chassis 58 of Nasser AlAttiyah destroyed by fire in Cyprus Rally
Subscribe on our YouTube channel for rally videos
https://youtu.be/7s-TeZPdx9Q

Yet another burnt Polo!

[Danny0405]

In theory (mine) Polo should be better for very fast gravel/snow while Fabia shall be better for rough, slow and twisty stuff.

But I guess that the main issue with Polo is the end of VW Motorsport development. Few people logically want to invest in a car with no future.

Personnally, I would say Fabia is a little more reliable and all-around but not a big gap and even now, I think it is quite equal (maybe reliability is still a little better for Skoda as I never heard main drivers complaining about it in Skoda whereas it is the most used car).

I think what really costs a lot to VW was the PR side: the VW was waited as a dominant car with Skoda experience + their WRC experience but it had some reliability issue at the beginning (logical seeing what happened to Hyundai and Citroen) and facing a car at the best of his development such as Skoda is not simple.
And the back-to-back fires for Camilli and a Portuguese driver (Meireles?) has costed a lot also I think because it didn’t given much confidence to the potential drivers.

[Sulland]

I am guessing the engineers for the new Fabia has taken the best from both, and will smash the opposition when it comes.

[RS]

I am guessing the engineers for the new Fabia has taken the best from both, and will smash the opposition when it comes.

I’m sure they will test thoroughly and when it debuts it will be ready, perhaps unlike some others.

Building a Rally2 car that is both fast and reliable seems to be very challenging.

[PLuto]

But I guess that the main issue with Polo is the end of VW Motorsport development. Few people logically want to invest in a car with no future.

Yes, this is big problem for Polo. There were much more drivers planning to use it this year, but with the end of VW Motorsport they changed for "cars with future". But still Polo is the best on tarmac and fast events.

[Jarek Z]

I think what really costs a lot to VW was the PR side: the VW was waited as a dominant car with Skoda experience + their WRC experience but it had some reliability issue at the beginning (logical seeing what happened to Hyundai and Citroen) and facing a car at the best of his development such as Skoda is not simple.
And the back-to-back fires for Camilli and a Portuguese driver (Meireles?) has costed a lot also I think because it didn’t given much confidence to the potential drivers.

As far as I remember there was a lot of problems with Polo R5 at the beginning:
- power steering issues
- suspension issues (rear axle falling apart)
- fires

Some sources:
https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?28327-Rally2-(ex-R5)-News/page564
https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?28327-Rally2-(ex-R5)-News&p=1214026&viewfull=1#post1214026

But now it seems one of the best cars in its class.

[Jarek Z]

And the back-to-back fires for Camilli and a Portuguese driver (Meireles?) has costed a lot

I remember D. Marban during Rally Islas Canarias:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRilpEsrcqM

[Tom K]

Also Veiby in Portugal

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/teemu-suninen-sai-kaskyn-wrc-tallin-pomolta-kai-tasta-joutuu-sitten-ylitoihin/

Suninen's comments about the Hyundai: "The car understeers in the middle of the corner, especially in slow corners."

[Mackie]

https://www.rallit.fi/teemu-suninen-sai-kaskyn-wrc-tallin-pomolta-kai-tasta-joutuu-sitten-ylitoihin/

Suninen's comments about the Hyundai: "The car understeers in the middle of the corner, especially in slow corners."

Points to a fundamental flaw i the suspension design. Is this the Rally2 or the R5?

[AnttiL]

Points to a fundamental flaw i the suspension design. Is this the Rally2 or the R5?

The new car. More from the same interview:

"Maybe this is so far the most difficult to drive (out of Fiesta, Polo and i20 N Rally2). Balance is lacking quite a lot in different types of corners. The car is also sensitive to conditions. In same places it's too understeering and some places too oversteering. The overall balance is good, but sensitive to changes."

[Mackie]

The new car. More from the same interview:

"Maybe this is so far the most difficult to drive (out of Fiesta, Polo and i20 N Rally2). Balance is lacking quite a lot in different types of corners. The car is also sensitive to conditions. In same places it's too understeering and some places too oversteering. The overall balance is good, but sensitive to changes."

Then it might be like this with the Rally1-car as well, to some extent. If so we might have some crashes coming from Solberg and Tänak...

[AnttiL]

Then it might be like this with the Rally1-car as well, to some extent. If so we might have some crashes coming from Solberg and Tänak...

But even though the cars will look the same on the outside, they have a different basis. Rally2 is based on production car, but Rally1 is a tubular chassis.

[Mirek]

IMHO neutral behavior is impossible to achieve without the center differential. In my purely theoretical understanding going from understeering to oversteering is somewhat typical for powerfull 4WD cars with no center diff. The description (just like other things) leads me more to a conclusion that the car was simply released for competition way too early before the suspension, transmission and geometry was optimized.

[Mackie]

IMHO neutral behavior is impossible to achieve without the center differential. In my purely theoretical understanding going from understeering to oversteering is somewhat typical for powerfull 4WD cars with no center diff. The description (just like other things) leads me more to a conclusion that the car was simply released for competition way too early before the suspension, transmission and geometry was optimized.

Yes, and that makes the Rally1 more fun to watch then what WRC is now (on tarmac at least). A bit less advanced and elegant though.

But, what I meant was if a car starts to understeer in the middle of the corner, with loaded up suspension, something is very wrong. Seems like suspension and drivetrain are working against each other.

[EstWRC]

Then it might be like this with the Rally1-car as well, to some extent. If so we might have some crashes coming from Solberg and Tänak...

why Solberg and Tänak?

[Mackie]

why Solberg and Tänak?

Tänak because he pushes the machinery to the max. If the car then does something funny and unexpected, there is a chance for some off's. Solberg because he is still trying to find himself in these cars. He pushes when he shouldn't, and if he doesn't he's frustrated for not having the pace. So he goes out and pushes. In Catalunia he showed that he can calm down, but he wasn't fast. I hope he will find some effortless and controlled pace, first sign maybe in Sweden?

[EstWRC]

Tänak because he pushes the machinery to the max. If the car then does something funny and unexpected, there is a chance for some off's. Solberg because he is still trying to find himself in these cars. He pushes when he shouldn't, and if he doesn't he's frustrated for not having the pace. So he goes out and pushes. In Catalunia he showed that he can calm down, but he wasn't fast. I hope he will find some effortless and controlled pace, first sign maybe in Sweden?

how many crashes Tänak has had during these 2 years?

after Catalunya crash youre acting here like he does it all the time. The last crash he had before Catalunya was Monte 2020!


but anyway its off-topic and we dont even know for who the new car will suit or not

[Mackie]

how many crashes Tänak has had during these 2 years?

after Catalunya crash youre acting here like he does it all the time. The last crash he had before Catalunya was Monte 2020!


but anyway its off-topic and we dont even know for who the new car will suit or not

I didn't mean to step on your toes, I'm a fan of Tänak! But he has crashed more than Ogier/Evans/Neuville, and what has happened after his move to the Hyundai is probably because the car doesn't suit him. Or is somewhat unpredictable. I hope the Rally1 car is more to his liking.

[EstWRC]

I didn't mean to step on your toes, I'm a fan of Tänak! But he has crashed more than Ogier/Evans/Neuville, and what has happened after his move to the Hyundai is probably because the car doesn't suit him. Or is somewhat unpredictable. I hope the Rally1 car is more to his liking.

Evans crashed in Monza 2020 and Safari 2021, Ogier in Arctic 2021, Neuville last year in Estonia and Monza, thats two compared only to Tänaks one crash in 2020.

i dont really see much of a difference TBH, only the fact that Ogier has had only one mistake.

but ok this is my last post here about this.

[mknight]

how many crashes Tänak has had during these 2 years?

after Catalunya crash youre acting here like he does it all the time. The last crash he had before Catalunya was Monte 2020!


Estonia 2021

[Mackie]

Evans crashed in Monza 2020 and Safari 2021, Ogier in Arctic 2021, Neuville last year in Estonia and Monza, thats two compared only to Tänaks one crash in 2020.

i dont really see much of a difference TBH, only the fact that Ogier has had only one mistake.

but ok this is my last post here about this.

I checked, and I agree. During the last 2 years there isn't much difference between them when it comes to crashing.

But my point that really was the one I was trying to make remains. Of Neuville, Tänak, Sordo and Solberg, and if the Rally1 car retains the handling characteristics of the WRC or some other twitchy handling flaw, I believe Solberg and Tänak will suffer the most. The Rally1 is supposed to be less complicated and more like the Rally2 without active diffs, and since Neuville has been unhappy with the direction (which might point to him having problems adjusting) it might be Tänak who is able to use the new Beast the most. It will be an exciting year!

[Sulland]

Continuing this one in the Rally1 thread. So this is posted both places, but continue here
https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?41483-Rally1-hybrid-cars-(2022-)&p=1285534#post1285534


Yes, and that makes the Rally1 more fun to watch then what WRC is now (on tarmac at least). A bit less advanced and elegant though.

But, what I meant was if a car starts to understeer in the middle of the corner, with loaded up suspension, something is very wrong. Seems like suspension and drivetrain are working against each other.

And in my book this is good. A top class car in either of the motorsports should be very hard to handle. It should be a good gap between Rally1 and Rally2. A youngster with little experience should not be able to hop into a Rally1 car and be able to match the best drivers in the world.

I am guessing the Rally2 cars has ca 300 hp, and Rally1 maybe 400+100 hp. Then the Rally1 should be a handful to master when all 500 horses gallop at once, and the drivetrain makes it even harder to master these machines. If they have a bit less aero as well, we are moving in the right direction.

Hopefully the new spaceframe is made strong enough to protect the crew when and if they loose against in the battle against the machine.

[Mirek]

Continuing this one in the Rally1 thread. So this is posted both places, but continue here
https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?41483-Rally1-hybrid-cars-(2022-)&p=1285534#post1285534



And in my book this is good. A top class car in either of the motorsports should be very hard to handle. It should be a good gap between Rally1 and Rally2. A youngster with little experience should not be able to hop into a Rally1 car and be able to match the best drivers in the world.

I am guessing the Rally2 cars has ca 300 hp, and Rally1 maybe 400+100 hp. Then the Rally1 should be a handful to master when all 500 horses gallop at once, and the drivetrain makes it even harder to master these machines. If they have a bit less aero as well, we are moving in the right direction.

Hopefully the new spaceframe is made strong enough to protect the crew when and if they loose against in the battle against the machine.

Be careful. When something is more primitive it doesn't automatically mean also harder to drive. The more primitive cars have an advantage that they usually behave very predictable albeit less efficient.

Also the new Rally1 are technically closer to the Rally2 than the current generation of WRC cars (except for the hybrid boost of course). I don't see why it shall be more difficult for Rally2 drivers to switch to them than now.

Third thing is that this limited electric boost is something which may suit more the young "PC gamers" than the old. We'll see.

[mknight]

Well with Solans retiring in Hungary reliability certainly isn't a strong point of the new Hyundai.

As mentioned Polo wasn't exactly very reliable at first either, but it was fast. The only win the new Hyundai has so far is a 2nd tier Italian rally afaik.

[pantealex]

Well with Solans retiring in Hungary reliability certainly isn't a strong point of the new Hyundai.

As mentioned Polo wasn't exactly very reliable at first either, but it was fast. The only win the new Hyundai has so far is a 2nd tier Italian rally afaik.

Right now it looks like we have another "Fiesta Rally2" here, impossible to get good results with it

2nd win is Huttunen´s WRC2 win in Ypres but only with big big problems and others DNF.

[RS]

Well with Solans retiring in Hungary reliability certainly isn't a strong point of the new Hyundai.

As mentioned Polo wasn't exactly very reliable at first either, but it was fast. The only win the new Hyundai has so far is a 2nd tier Italian rally afaik.

Was this a brand new car for MRF?

BTW, anyone know what team actually runs the MRF Hyundai in ERC?

[rp]

Was this a brand new car for MRF?

BTW, anyone know what team actually runs the MRF Hyundai in ERC?

It was a brand new car, chassis 7. BRC Racing Team is running MRF´s Hyundai...

[mknight]

With regards to cars it's funny to watch Gryazins journey.
After Estonia and Roma he said that he aimed to switch cause Polo is not getting developed...
After Fiesta in Greece (terrible), Polo in Finland (a bit meh) and Fabia in Spain (not good, given previous tarmac speed). He goes back to Polo and has his top speed back.

Polo still best for him it seems.

[AnttiL]

Last year he was lost in the Hyundai

[RS]

With regards to cars it's funny to watch Gryazins journey.
After Estonia and Roma he said that he aimed to switch cause Polo is not getting developed...
After Fiesta in Greece (terrible), Polo in Finland (a bit meh) and Fabia in Spain (not good, given previous tarmac speed). He goes back to Polo and has his top speed back.

Polo still best for him it seems.

I thought he did well in Spain. Nothing spectacular but pretty quick and didn't crash.

[Andre Oliveira]

Meeke testing Fabia Rally2 ‘22

https://youtu.be/yVAZfgpVSJA

[mknight]

I thought he did well in Spain. Nothing spectacular but pretty quick and didn't crash.

Compared to both Croatia and now Hungary it was a step slower.

In Croatia he was pretty much the fastest driver (but with multiple mistakes). Now in Spain he didn't win a single stage and was clearly slower than Camilli and Østberg.

[TWRC]

Meanwhile, Gryazin is supposedly testing C3:
https://scontent.fbud10-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/246831447_4465512746829219_1008042200714563444_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ODAGoD4h6xoAX9JUAQg&tn=ohbcLzOwZmmx2hbj&_nc_ht=scontent.fbud10-1.fna&oh=db4495c10989bd7ea352117a7b47c746&oe=617B4AE4
pic: duen.hu

[AnttiL]

Gotta catch ’em all!

[Mirek]

Compared to both Croatia and now Hungary it was a step slower.

In Croatia he was pretty much the fastest driver (but with multiple mistakes). Now in Spain he didn't win a single stage and was clearly slower than Camilli and Østberg.

Completely different type or roads and required driving style. He said himself that he was struggling with pacenotes in Catalunya.

[RS]

Meeke testing Fabia Rally2 ‘22

https://youtu.be/yVAZfgpVSJA

^^ On rails!

Couple more vids but pretty boring in tricky conditions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFq0Ry2zzaM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXk4PPI1OvM

[RS]

And one more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E3un_ZzqUI

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hadik driving a Fiesta Rally2 beat Østberg to win the 2021 Hungarian Rally Ch'ship.

[Tom K]

Yes, doing two rallies more :)

1) Boldogko Rally - Ostberg leading up to last stage (Hadik +50 s), puncture and dropped to 4th 2) Eger - Hadik was better, do not remember any particular problem for Ostberg (+49 s) 3) Salgo - no Ostberg, Hadik 2nd place 4) Mecsek - Ostberg won, Hadik 2nd place (+34 s) 5) Veszprem - no Ostberg, Hadik crashed 6) Vertes - Ostberg won, Hadik 2nd place (+48,5 s) 7) Nyiregyhaza/Hungary - Ostberg won, Hadik 2nd place (+26,1 s)

[mknight]

I think Østberg had some persistent engine issues in Eger.

That said tarmac seems like by far the best surface for Fiesta.

[TWRC]

I think Østberg had some persistent engine issues in Eger.

That said tarmac seems like by far the best surface for Fiesta.

Yes, he was down on power, which got worse as the rally progressed, but he was lucky he could even finish unlike some weeks before that in Romania.

[RS]

Meeke again:

https://youtu.be/DPUhGhPUrL8

[skarderud]

Apparently, Opel planning for a Rally2, but maybe wait for new hybrid Rally2 rules.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Citroen C3 Rally2 aero and hybrid news from Mads Ostberg via WRCWings:

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2021/11/01/citroen-c3-rally2-aerodynamics-and-hybridisation-with-mads-ostberg-and-didier-clement/

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FDH8K_oWYAQw25F?format=jpg&name=large

[mknight]

I thought they stopped making new Fabias already many months ago.

[Mirek]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FDH8K_oWYAQw25F?format=jpg&name=large

The complete Škoda Auto company was on halt for last two weeks and people were at home for reduced salary. They started building stock cars again today but only on limited scale. There are tens of thousands of unfinished cars parked on various locations all around the country. They expect to have around 1/4-1/3 lesser turnover this year which means billions of Euro missing...

[the sniper]

The complete Škoda Auto company was on halt for last two weeks and people were at home for reduced salary. They started building stock cars again today but only on limited scale. There are tens of thousands of unfinished cars parked on various locations all around the country. They expect to have around 1/4-1/3 lesser turnover this year which means billions of Euro missing...

Crikey, has Skoda been particularly badly hit? I knew there were widespread problems, but that sounds worse than I'd imagined.

[Got Mail]

Crikey, has Skoda been particularly badly hit? I knew there were widespread problems, but that sounds worse than I'd imagined.

SKODA Auto have made €900 million profit so far this year.

Q4 will be challenging but, all things considered, they are doing very well on a financial basis.

[Mirek]

SKODA Auto have made €900 million profit so far this year.

Q4 will be challenging but, all things considered, they are doing very well on a financial basis.

You can see that there is a very significant drop in investments and cash flow already second year in a row and it's clear that Q4 2021 will be much worse than the rest of the year. That may have major consequences for the future.

[Jarek Z]

Apparently, Opel planning for a Rally2, but maybe wait for new hybrid Rally2 rules

Yes. Opel considers building a Rally2 car, but only if the category goes hybrid. More about it here:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/opel-would-pursue-rally2-if-category-goes-hybrid/

[mknight]

It's the same issue as main category.
New manus want as different rules as possible. Manus that have competetive cars wants them to stay the same.

The difference is that in Rally2 there already are quite many different cars, so FIA listens more to them than to newcomers.

[Mirek]

It's the same issue as main category.
New manus want as different rules as possible. Manus that have competetive cars wants them to stay the same.

No, that's not the case. It's customers who want the rules to stay the same. Unlike WRC the Rally2 class is about a product which generates profit. You can't sell one which the customers don't want to buy.

[Sulland]

From whom of the manufacturers can we expect upgrades for the 2022 season?

Has MSport figured out upgrades for gravel on the Mk2?
Will Skoda hit bullseye with the new Fabia?
Is the i20 there yet, or will it be polished somewhat?
Can Citroen C3 have jokers coming for 2022?
Will we see other manufacturers coming in during 22?

[RS]

Skoda testing the new Fabia again..

Kopecky: https://youtu.be/QPfBCmwuydk

Meeke: https://youtu.be/LomEdbGqYFM

[TWRC]

From whom of the manufacturers can we expect upgrades for the 2022 season?

Has MSport figured out upgrades for gravel on the Mk2?
Will Skoda hit bullseye with the new Fabia?
Is the i20 there yet, or will it be polished somewhat?
Can Citroen C3 have jokers coming for 2022?
Will we see other manufacturers coming in during 22?

I think Citroën will have updates, but it will be the last "full" year for the C3, as if I remember well, for 2023 there should be a new car.

[the sniper]

Could they switch to the Peugeot 208/Corsa for 2023/24?

[TWRC]

Could they switch to the Peugeot 208/Corsa for 2023/24?

I think sure, Stellantis have more marques to choose from, if I remember well, some time back there were rumours of them switching the Rally2 programme to Opel. And aside from the above mentioned 2, they have the option to go with ie. Fiat/Abarth as well. I also hope that they will return with something to WRC/Rally1 - either with Citroën or with something else. :)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

From whom of the manufacturers can we expect upgrades for the 2022 season?

Has MSport figured out upgrades for gravel on the Mk2?
Will Skoda hit bullseye with the new Fabia?
Is the i20 there yet, or will it be polished somewhat?
Can Citroen C3 have jokers coming for 2022?
Will we see other manufacturers coming in during 22?

M-Sport may have more time and resouces for the Fiesta Rally2 after concentrating everything on the Puma Rally1 this year.

Opel are waiting for the Rally2 hybrid era and Peugeot seem happy with the 208 Rally4.

The i20 should be spot-on with all of the development and drivers its had thrown at it.

[skarderud]

M-sport build a Fiat Panda R5:)

https://fb.watch/9KVSvS9y_p/

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[skarderud]

Seems like M-sport have a new customer-part of theire business, building cars on other bases than Ford.
Is it then possible to let them build an homologated Rally2 on, lets say a Mazda or a Fiat? If you pay the bills of course:)
They are not a manufacturer, so the brand have to be involved still?


Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Rally Hokkaido]

Seems like M-sport have a new customer-part of theire business, building cars on other bases than Ford.
Is it then possible to let them build an homologated Rally2 on, lets say a Mazda or a Fiat? If you pay the bills of course:)
They are not a manufacturer, so the brand have to be involved still?


Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

Yes, the manufacturer has to be involved in the homologation process, at least, as the category's base production cars must be FIA homologated. Contrast this with non-FIA championship TCR where the cars are not homologated by the factory, but must comply with a Certificate of Description, which is supplied by the TCR car builder who may be completely independent of the base car's manufacturer.

[skarderud]

Yes, the manufacturer has to be involved in the homologation process, at least, as the category's base production cars must be FIA homologated. Contrast this with non-FIA championship TCR where the cars are not homologated by the factory, but must comply with a Certificate of Description, which is supplied by the TCR car builder who may be completely independent of the base car's manufacturer.Yes, and there we see the reason the manufacturer-rule has to be removed.
Why have they that rule? The car in the Rally2 down to Rally5 is anyway productionbased cars, it should be no need for manufacturer-involvment there.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[RS]

Skoda confirm new Fabia Rally2 will have a completely new drivetrain and they are aiming for a summer 2022 debut:

https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/press-releases/skoda-motorsport-customer-teams-secure-more-than-20-titles-worldwide-in-2021-rally-season/

[RS]

Yes, and there we see the reason the manufacturer-rule has to be removed.
Why have they that rule? The car in the Rally2 down to Rally5 is anyway productionbased cars, it should be no need for manufacturer-involvment there.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

I think it’s fair enough.. the manufacturers will want some control over competition vehicles bearing their brand in order to protect their reputation, and besides without some kind of manufacturer support a Rally2 project is unlikely to be very successful. It’s not the olden days any more where vehicles in the lower classes were literally a road car with a rollcage and some bucket seats bolted in.

[Mirek]

Skoda confirm new Fabia Rally2 will have a completely new drivetrain and they are aiming for a summer 2022 debut:

https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/press-releases/skoda-motorsport-customer-teams-secure-more-than-20-titles-worldwide-in-2021-rally-season/

440 Fabia R5 sold... that's a nice business!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

440 Fabia R5 sold... that's a nice business!

Where does the profit go from all these Fabia R5 sales ?

I wish a lot of those were M-Sport Fiesta R5 sales to help keep this rally business thriving.

[the sniper]

Where does the profit go from all these Fabia R5 sales ?

I wish a lot of those were M-Sport Fiesta R5 sales to help keep this rally business thriving.

From what we're told, I doubt Skoda would have hung around if the program didn't make a profit. Good to share the wealth around and they're rewarded for a great product.

[dimviii]

Where does the profit go from all these Fabia R5 sales ?


to keep alive the Skoda motorsport department.

[Mirek]

Where does the profit go from all these Fabia R5 sales ?

As other wrote. Škoda Motorsport works on its own budget as a self-sufficient business.

[lmmjvss]

Skoda Motorsport is the real MVP in rallying. For real

[Sulland]

440 Fabia R5 sold... that's a nice business!

And many rebuilds on R5s as well, and a huge number of spare parts that also brings revenue.

In addition the Evo's/ Rally2 that also has triple digits in prod numbers!
Maybe that model will reach 200 before the new Rally2 comes in the summer.

[Andre Oliveira]

They stopped the production remember?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

As other wrote. Škoda Motorsport works on its own budget as a self-sufficient business.

A big manufacturer like Skoda, part of an even bigger group (VAG), let's its motorsport dept live and die by it's own products and gives no financial or other assistance ?

I don't by believe M-Sport are competing on a level playing field against the likes of these in-house factory teams.

New facilities like this don't come cheap...

https://www.simpsonsskoda.co.uk/news/new-look-and-a-new-hq-for-skoda-motorsport/

'ŠKODA Motorsport is now operating out of a brand new headquarters close to the ŠKODA AUTO factory in the outskirts of Mladá Boleslav.
The purpose-built facilities host all departments of ŠKODA Motorsport under one roof and can serve the needs of the customers and the factory team even better. Research and development, production, workshop, storage, workshop for prototypes, logistics, offices and a show room for customers are concentrated in the brand new facilities close to the ŠKODA AUTO factory near Mladá Boleslav. The persons working for ŠKODA Motorsport share 1,859 square metres of office space and 3,844 square metres of workshop and storage facilities. In total, the new premises cover 16,400 square metres.

Christian Strube, Head of Technical Development ŠKODA AUTO, says: “With this new headquarter, we are prepared for the future challenges. Due to an improved workflow, we can develop and built up cars even more efficient and make our service for our customers even better. Last year, our target was to provide more than 200 FABIA R5 to customers worldwide. And we delivered! Up to now, almost 250 FABIA were sold. In order to keep that momentum, these new premises are an ideal foundation for the future success of our motorsport program.”

[Mirek]

A big manufacturer like Skoda, part of an even bigger group (VAG), let's its motorsport dept live and die by it's own products and gives no financial or other assistance ?

I don't by believe M-Sport are competing on a level playing field against the likes of these in-house factory teams.

New facilities like this don't come cheap...

https://www.simpsonsskoda.co.uk/news/new-look-and-a-new-hq-for-skoda-motorsport/

'ŠKODA Motorsport is now operating out of a brand new headquarters close to the ŠKODA AUTO factory in the outskirts of Mladá Boleslav.
The purpose-built facilities host all departments of ŠKODA Motorsport under one roof and can serve the needs of the customers and the factory team even better. Research and development, production, workshop, storage, workshop for prototypes, logistics, offices and a show room for customers are concentrated in the brand new facilities close to the ŠKODA AUTO factory near Mladá Boleslav. The persons working for ŠKODA Motorsport share 1,859 square metres of office space and 3,844 square metres of workshop and storage facilities. In total, the new premises cover 16,400 square metres.

Christian Strube, Head of Technical Development ŠKODA AUTO, says: “With this new headquarter, we are prepared for the future challenges. Due to an improved workflow, we can develop and built up cars even more efficient and make our service for our customers even better. Last year, our target was to provide more than 200 FABIA R5 to customers worldwide. And we delivered! Up to now, almost 250 FABIA were sold. In order to keep that momentum, these new premises are an ideal foundation for the future success of our motorsport program.”

And so what? What you are trying to say?

[WRCStan]

Don't forget the M-Sport Evaluation Centre https://www.m-sport.co.uk/mec

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Don't forget the M-Sport Evaluation Centre https://www.m-sport.co.uk/mec

That is separate from the rally car/prep side of the business and intended to raise money from manufacturers wanting to test their new road cars.

Plus it was created with their own investment, not built for them by a manufacturer (Ford), like Skoda Motorsport's base was for them.

[Jarek Z]

Two Hyundais i20 N Rally2 in Portugal, for Ricardo Teodósio and Bruno Magalhães:
https://www.fiaerc.com/team-hyundai-portugal-adds-another-big-gun-ahead-of-2022-erc-season/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I see Polo R5's are still finding new drivers with some now taking them into the 2022 Irish Tarmac championship. The Fiesta lost out to the i20 there but now it is also seeing the Polo take over as the new choice. There were 4 in the Top 10 in Galway.

The older Fiesta R5 is still very popular but the Rally2 has struggled for takers.

A C3 Rally2 shouldve appeared on Rd1 (Galway) but didn't... and there were no Fabia's at all !

[rp]

and there were no Fabia's at all !

How it is possible that no Fabia's!?

[the sniper]

How it is possible that no Fabia's!?

We see very few of them in the UK too. We almost see more of the Proton Iriz R5! :D I don't think a Rally2 evo Fabia has ever even competed in a UK National rally.

[Steve Boyd]

http://www.northweststages.co.uk/breaking-news-chris-ingram-rally/

[the sniper]

http://www.northweststages.co.uk/breaking-news-chris-ingram-rally/

I did think I should add "yet" to the end of that last post, as Ruairi Bell will seemingly have a Fabia Evo too this season, if he's continuing in the UK.

As an aside, I've long wondered if there was potential for an Ingram Simpson(s) partnership. The latter has seemingly long had newish Fabias that don't seem to get much use. Both have a relationship with Toksport. Neil funds his own fun though, which is fair enough.

[lmmjvss]

Is Ingram popular in Europe? I dont know how big an ERC title is in Europe, but Im such a fan of Chris. He is chatismatic. He "looks like" a poor guy trying to rally, u'know? I like thah haha
Btw... Is he brothers with BTCC's Ingram?

[the sniper]

Is Ingram popular in Europe? I dont know how big an ERC title is in Europe, but Im such a fan of Chris. He is chatismatic. He "looks like" a poor guy trying to rally, u'know? I like thah haha
Btw... Is he brothers with BTCC's Ingram?

It's not big outside of rallying circles. Alexey Lukyanuk has achieved the most notoriety off the back of the ERC.

I don't believe he's related to the BTCC Ingram.

[ouvreur]

It's not big outside of rallying circles. Alexey Lukyanuk has achieved the most notoriety off the back of the ERC.

I don't believe he's related to the BTCC Ingram.

They're definitely not related.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

As an aside, I've long wondered if there was potential for an Ingram Simpson(s) partnership. The latter has seemingly long had newish Fabias that don't seem to get much use. Both have a relationship with Toksport. Neil funds his own fun though, which is fair enough.

There's a link in that Ingram gets his sponsored Skoda road car from Simpsons.

And they are also one of the sponsors of the NW Stages.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Running R5 Polo's for the top two drivers in the British Championship - an interview at Melvyn Evans Motorsport.

https://m.facebook.com/RalioS4C/videos/yn-y-garej-melvyn-evans-motorsport/652873199223335/

Some great info on the car and the costs.

[Jarek Z]

Is Ingram popular in Europe? I dont know how big an ERC title is in Europe, but Im such a fan of Chris. He is chatismatic. He "looks like" a poor guy trying to rally, u'know? I like thah haha

Too me he looks like a boy from the neighborhood who has a dream to become a rally champion. He looked that way especially in the times when he was sponsored by 11 Degress clothing company. I like this guy too! :)

https://www.facebook.com/11DegreesClothing/photos/check-out-chris-ingram-rally-in-our-core-black-tracksuit-were-proud-to-be-sponso/872554249535750/

https://detour-roadtrips.com/home/chris-ingram-european-rally-champion

[Fast Eddie WRC]

For info, Ingram just split with his long-time co-driver Ross Whittock.

Not sure why but it may be finance-related as they dont do many events. Ross has also had to work in a supermarket before to make a living...

[Jarek Z]

For info, Ingram just split with his long-time co-driver Ross Whittock.

Partners no more :(
https://www.fiaerc.com/erc-title-winning-duo-ingram-and-whittock-are-partners-no-more/

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/int/artikel/toyota-wird-gr-yaris-rally2-bauen-48034/

[RS]

Latest on Skoda testing: https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/motorsport/testing-in-the-land-of-snow-and-ice/

[Sulland]

Has the Polo gotten any newer jokers or is this list complete?
https://autorally.lv/files/r198/R5-Joker-A5774-VW%20Polo.pdf

I must say I am impressed that the Polo still seems to be one of the top two RC2 cars, long after VW left the sport.
The Polo still is the most stable and well balanced Rally2/R5 car, and performs well on all sufaces.

I am guessing the new Fabia will use lessons identified from the Polo to increase VAGs grip on the class.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Has the Polo gotten any newer jokers or is this list complete?
https://autorally.lv/files/r198/R5-Joker-A5774-VW%20Polo.pdf

I must say I am impressed that the Polo still seems to be one of the top two RC2 cars, long after VW left the sport.
The Polo still is the most stable and well balanced Rally2/R5 car, and performs well on all sufaces.

I am guessing the new Fabia will use lessons identified from the Polo to increase VAGs grip on the class.

In the MEM video above, they say how well-engineered the Polo R5 is (much being based on the Polo WRC) and the really high quality of its components (compared to their previous i20).

[tommeke_B]

The Polo R5 was according to many engineers/mechanics a bit like a "small WRC", it's a fantastic car, there's a lot to play with, but it has to be set up properly. Not everyone can jump in and be fast with it, while the Fabia has the reputation of being a much easier car to drive. Seeing the numbers it's clear which car is most successful. The Fabia winning many national events and championships all around the world. At Skoda Motorsport, it's more about having a profitable business with many customers rather than having a works team winning championships. It would make sense to stick with their philosophy and build another "user-friendly" car where it's easier for customers to extract the potential of the car.

BTW as the rumors say, Skoda's going to spend a whole week doing development tests in the Ypres region. They're really taking it everywhere.

[Danny0405]

I don’t have the same opinion on the Polo R5. For me, it’s a disappointment: it was VW car (big domination in WRC), the group had Skoda’s experience in R5 (and Skoda stopped their development with VW coming) and it was clearly customer-oriented as a project (except the first rally, they never had a team as Skoda had with Lappi, Tidemand, Kopecky or Rovanpera). So the goal was clearly to overtake the Fabia and to be the next big thing in this category.

And ok, they succeeded in matching the level of the Fabia but they didn’t manage to overtake it whereas the Polo was newer. Polo has some points better (more high-performance oriented) than Fabia and the contrary is true also (Skoda probably more polyvalent and easy to use).
And now, the Citroen is also at this level I think.
Probably the fires (Camilli, Kajto, one guy in Portugal) didn’t help them also to promote it.

So in the end, I would not say the Polo R5 is a failure but a disappointment, yes clearly: the ultimate proof is that the group decides to stop the evolution of the Polo and to come back to the Fabia as the main car to develop.

[Jarek Z]

Probably the fires (Camilli, Kajto, one guy in Portugal) didn’t help them also to promote it.

Apart from the fires

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-erD0PA8HzTo/XPQRQw5ACxI/AAAAAAAABNY/0GDqXEPXGPwoYdnnCAFnYMH_EE7JwQ1lwCLcBGAs/s1600/61692212_2357834410946958_4351266350086225920_n.jp g

there were also rear suspension problems, at least for Kajto, Veiby, Saba and some other drivers:

https://static.motor.es/fotos-noticias/2018/08/pontus-tidemand-supera-limites-volkswagen-polo-gti-r5-201849670_1.jpg

https://twitter.com/PeAChapaRacing/status/1034376598794002433?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1034376598794002433%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.motor.es%2Fnoticias%2Fpo ntus-tidemand-supera-limites-volkswagen-polo-gti-r5-201849670.html

http://www.kwa-kwa.pl/strona/images/stories/kwa-kwa/samochody/zagranica/volkswagen/vw-polo-gti-r5/image008.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PMLX46MYOvo/XPQVantt5iI/AAAAAAAABNk/Ql276tkAa_Q1QOgaV5lHotc9qQUM10-HACLcBGAs/s1600/58729782_2153895844705840_646912896156041216_n.jpg

so Polo R5 had quite a bad start which may have discouraged many customers...

[Danny0405]

Apart from the fires

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-erD0PA8HzTo/XPQRQw5ACxI/AAAAAAAABNY/0GDqXEPXGPwoYdnnCAFnYMH_EE7JwQ1lwCLcBGAs/s1600/61692212_2357834410946958_4351266350086225920_n.jp g

there were also rear suspension problems, at least for Kajto, Veiby, Saba and some other drivers:

https://static.motor.es/fotos-noticias/2018/08/pontus-tidemand-supera-limites-volkswagen-polo-gti-r5-201849670_1.jpg

https://twitter.com/PeAChapaRacing/status/1034376598794002433?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1034376598794002433%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.motor.es%2Fnoticias%2Fpo ntus-tidemand-supera-limites-volkswagen-polo-gti-r5-201849670.html

http://www.kwa-kwa.pl/strona/images/stories/kwa-kwa/samochody/zagranica/volkswagen/vw-polo-gti-r5/image008.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PMLX46MYOvo/XPQVantt5iI/AAAAAAAABNk/Ql276tkAa_Q1QOgaV5lHotc9qQUM10-HACLcBGAs/s1600/58729782_2153895844705840_646912896156041216_n.jpg

so Polo R5 had quite a bad start which may have discouraged many customers...

Ok, I made a confusion (Kajto had a fire but it was not a VW, it was Veiby with VW and the Portuguese guy I was thinking about was Meireles): but having two cars with a fire in the same rally (Veiby + Meireles in Portugal WRC 2019) and 3 in 2 months (including Camilli in Corsica 2019) is clearly really bad for promotion, especially when it happens in WRC with drivers in contention for class win.

Rear suspension issues has not helped for sure.
It’s always difficult to face a reliable car (as the Fabia is) from the beginning (neither VW, nor Citroen, Ford and Hyundai succeeds to do it and only VW and Citroen had matched it after some time).

[Jarek Z]

Ok, I made a confusion (Kajto had a fire but it was not a VW, it was Veiby with VW and the Portuguese guy I was thinking about was Meireles): but having two cars with a fire in the same rally (Veiby + Meireles in Portugal WRC 2019) and 3 in 2 months (including Camilli in Corsica 2019) is clearly really bad for promotion

There was also a Spanish driver Daniel Marban in Rally Islas Canarias in ERC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrhxpbymfmU

[RS]

Ok, I made a confusion (Kajto had a fire but it was not a VW, it was Veiby with VW and the Portuguese guy I was thinking about was Meireles): but having two cars with a fire in the same rally (Veiby + Meireles in Portugal WRC 2019) and 3 in 2 months (including Camilli in Corsica 2019) is clearly really bad for promotion, especially when it happens in WRC with drivers in contention for class win.

Rear suspension issues has not helped for sure.
It’s always difficult to face a reliable car (as the Fabia is) from the beginning (neither VW, nor Citroen, Ford and Hyundai succeeds to do it and only VW and Citroen had matched it after some time).

When even teams who have won at WRC level struggle, it just goes to show how difficult it is to make a competitive and reliable R5 car and why proper testing is essential. The new Fiesta was not good ‘out of the box’ either despite MSport’s experience with a first generation R5.

[wwbroe]

First day of a five day test for Skoda in Ypres Region. Today they are testing in Wervik with Jan Kopecky. They are testing latest prototype (PT3) of the new Fabia R2.

[AnttiL]

I don’t have the same opinion on the Polo R5. For me, it’s a disappointment: it was VW car (big domination in WRC), the group had Skoda’s experience in R5 (and Skoda stopped their development with VW coming) and it was clearly customer-oriented as a project (except the first rally, they never had a team as Skoda had with Lappi, Tidemand, Kopecky or Rovanpera). So the goal was clearly to overtake the Fabia and to be the next big thing in this category.

And ok, they succeeded in matching the level of the Fabia but they didn’t manage to overtake it whereas the Polo was newer. Polo has some points better (more high-performance oriented) than Fabia and the contrary is true also (Skoda probably more polyvalent and easy to use).
And now, the Citroen is also at this level I think.
Probably the fires (Camilli, Kajto, one guy in Portugal) didn’t help them also to promote it.

So in the end, I would not say the Polo R5 is a failure but a disappointment, yes clearly: the ultimate proof is that the group decides to stop the evolution of the Polo and to come back to the Fabia as the main car to develop.

I would disagree with you guys, I think Polo was a fast car out of the box but had some reliability issues, all of which were rectified quickly. As for posting that picture of rear axle getting loose in the tests, this is why they do tests, to see how far they can push the car before it breaks. And then fix that.

But to me it's quite amazing that after several years of no active testing, the car can still win its class in WRC. We must remember that the factory stopped supporting the car right as it was released. There has been some updates but likely the development budget has been relatively small.


Also remember that after Polo came the Fabia Evo, and Skoda has still a big motorsport department doing the development all the time. Citroen has also been developed constantly, and the new Hyundai had an extensive development program.

As for being "difficult to jump into", how about Lappi and Suninen jumping into the car and winning instantly?

[wyler]

As for being "difficult to jump into", how about Lappi and Suninen jumping into the car and winning instantly?

they're top-tier drivers.
instead, i think that's very true for gentlemen and middle-tier drivers, some local drivers i chatted with -that tested and raced almost all r5- confirmed so. they said is very "professional" oriented car, that needs huge competence to get 100% potential, but also to find the soft spot around 80%-90%, while fabia on the opposite is easy to bring 80-90% with confidence.
that's for the average customer, not a big deal for professionals stepping down from wrc, extracting easily the top performance.

on a curious side, they reported fiesta mk2 as to have huge potential, but no feeling at all. they said you have to trust the car a lot, something they can't do, and nearly impossible for a driver doing few days in the car a year.

[Kenneth]

As for being "difficult to jump into", how about Lappi and Suninen jumping into the car and winning instantly?

Difficult doesn't mean impossible. And both of them are pretty experienced drivers, which probably helped.

[Mirek]

The Polo R5 was according to many engineers/mechanics a bit like a "small WRC", it's a fantastic car, there's a lot to play with, but it has to be set up properly. Not everyone can jump in and be fast with it, while the Fabia has the reputation of being a much easier car to drive. Seeing the numbers it's clear which car is most successful. The Fabia winning many national events and championships all around the world. At Skoda Motorsport, it's more about having a profitable business with many customers rather than having a works team winning championships. It would make sense to stick with their philosophy and build another "user-friendly" car where it's easier for customers to extract the potential of the car.

BTW as the rumors say, Skoda's going to spend a whole week doing development tests in the Ypres region. They're really taking it everywhere.

I dare to say Polo was probably not that difficult car to drive in its nature but a rather difficult (or complex) car to properly set and service.


But to me it's quite amazing that after several years of no active testing, the car can still win its class in WRC. We must remember that the factory stopped supporting the car right as it was released. There has been some updates but likely the development budget has been relatively small.

I somewhat disagree. There was quite a number of updates inlcuding 4 jokers (last one in July 2021), some development was shared with Škoda. You can find them here, the name of the document is "2022 - Complete List of Homologated Vehicles with Extensions - Dec. 2021": https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/760


on a curious side, they reported fiesta mk2 as to have huge potential, but no feeling at all. they said you have to trust the car a lot, something they can't do, and nearly impossible for a driver doing few days in the car a year.

IMHO Fiesta was homologated way too early when it was not fully developed.

[RS]

We can all agree the Polo is quick, although it may soon be surpassed by other manufacturers bringing new cars or further developing their current ones.

So what is the reason that relatively few people use them on the international stage? Is it about ongoing works support? Not just with jokers but I mean engineering and parts support on events. Skoda have made a point of having a service truck at WRC and some ERC events and will also supply engineers to help with setup and servicing. I wonder whether this is one reason Gryazin decided to join up with Toksport? I think he said something to that effect but i can’t remember where i heard it.

[RS]

First day of a five day test for Skoda in Ypres Region. Today they are testing in Wervik with Jan Kopecky. They are testing latest prototype (PT3) of the new Fabia R2.

Do you know who else will drive this week? I presume Meeke but obviously not Mikkelsen or Lindholm who are both in Sweden.

[PLuto]

We can all agree the Polo is quick, although it may soon be surpassed by other manufacturers bringing new cars or further developing their current ones.

So what is the reason that relatively few people use them on the international stage? Is it about ongoing works support? Not just with jokers but I mean engineering and parts support on events. Skoda have made a point of having a service truck at WRC and some ERC events and will also supply engineers to help with setup and servicing. I wonder whether this is one reason Gryazin decided to join up with Toksport? I think he said something to that effect but i can’t remember where i heard it.

I will start from end - I think Gryazin left Polo mainly because there is no more development. So for future it is better to change the brand. I think that biggest problem for Polo was difficulty of finding correct setup and also price for running the car...

[wyler]

IMHO Fiesta was homologated way too early when it was not fully developed.

yeah, definitely it lacks something, but i'm just reporting drivers' impressions, anything can be!

[wwbroe]

Do you know who else will drive this week? I presume Meeke but obviously not Mikkelsen or Lindholm who are both in Sweden.

Kopecky will do two days, Meeke also and friday it will be Loix testing the car.

[RS]

Kopecky will do two days, Meeke also and friday it will be Loix testing the car.

Thanks.. i did wonder if Freddy would put in an appearance as he has been involved with testing of the Fabia S2000 and Fabia R5 previously.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The Rally2 Fiesta was largely developed by the guy who was Ogier's engineer while he was at M-Sport.

But they didnt do nearly as much testing as Skoda and VW before releasing it. There could be many reasons for this but I suspect some over-confidence after the success of the Fiesta R5. Plus those drivers that came and tried it all said it was amazing.

[Eric_B]

The Rally2 Fiesta was largely developed by the guy who was Ogier's engineer while he was at M-Sport.

But they didnt do nearly as much testing as Skoda and VW before releasing it. There could be many reasons for this but I suspect some over-confidence after the success of the Fiesta R5. Plus those drivers that came and tried it all said it was amazing.

Development was very short and not so good. They need to work on it much more. It was too early to homologate the car and start in Estonia, when it was not ready. Also setup was disaster.

[Eric_B]

We can all agree the Polo is quick, although it may soon be surpassed by other manufacturers bringing new cars or further developing their current ones.

So what is the reason that relatively few people use them on the international stage? Is it about ongoing works support? Not just with jokers but I mean engineering and parts support on events. Skoda have made a point of having a service truck at WRC and some ERC events and will also supply engineers to help with setup and servicing. I wonder whether this is one reason Gryazin decided to join up with Toksport? I think he said something to that effect but i can’t remember where i heard it.

Polo is very quick. It had problem in beginning with not so many cars and spare parts available. Also it is more expensive than other R5 cars. And not so easy for gentleman drivers to drive the car. To be fast, you must push really. And later, when there were supposed to be more Polos over the world, VW decided to stop the project. So it is nonsense to buy a car without future.

[RS]

First day of a five day test for Skoda in Ypres Region. Today they are testing in Wervik with Jan Kopecky. They are testing latest prototype (PT3) of the new Fabia R2.

Come on Belgian people.. where are all the videos?

[Jarek Z]

Polo is very quick. It had problem in beginning with not so many cars and spare parts available. Also it is more expensive than other R5 cars. And not so easy for gentleman drivers to drive the car. To be fast, you must push really. And later, when there were supposed to be more Polos over the world, VW decided to stop the project. So it is nonsense to buy a car without future.

But this car without future still wins. Solans totally dominated Rally Fafe, the first round of European Championship, and Linnamae was third :)
https://rally-base.com/2022/rally-serras-de-fafe-felgueiras-cabreira-e-boticas-2022/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Mellors Elliot Motorsport

🇫🇷 Vive la France! 🇫🇷

Delighted to announce Oliver Mellors will debut the MEM Proton R5 on French soil this weekend as they tackle the Rallye National de Haute Provence.

The outing will give them some experience of European asphalt for later in the season.

[Jarek Z]

Delighted to announce Oliver Mellors will debut the MEM Proton R5 on French soil this weekend as they tackle the Rallye National de Haute Provence.

I don't know how good of a driver he is, but he will have a couple of R5 cars to beat:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries/76136-rallye-national-de-haute-provence-2022/

[RS]

More on aero development of the new Fabia Rally2:

https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/press-releases/new-generation-skoda-fabia-rally2-profits-from-road-cars-outstanding-aerodynamics/?utm_source=twitter

[RS]

And a video: https://youtu.be/OsQhKDWVVnY

[Jarek Z]

I don't know how good of a driver he is, but he will have a couple of R5 cars to beat:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries/76136-rallye-national-de-haute-provence-2022/

No luck. Mellors and his Proton crashed on SS5 when they were 3rd overall:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/76136-rallye-national-de-haute-provence-2022/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Iriz R5-based RX car to enter the 2022 Euro RX1 Championship:

https://www.fiaworldrallycross.com/world-rx/news/euro-rx1/2022/o---donovan-to-debut-proton-iriz-rx-in-euro-rx1/

[Sulland]

2265
At a quick look it could seem like Skoda was building a spaceframe car....
Sadly not, and the car is the ned Rally2 car inner build up.

[RS]

Latest tests new Fabia Rally2.

Kopecky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yunCNpDO1Z8

Meeke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUvvoptWfuI

Looking quite smooth and sophisticated.

[HKSjbg]

I like the sound of that exhaust note, quite different to most Rally2s

[RS]

I like the sound of that exhaust note, quite different to most Rally2s

Nice and raspy, reminds me of old Citroen World Rally Cars. Proper turbo chatter and nice pops and bangs too!

[Sulland]

Have VW Motorsport suddenly made 10 new cars?
Any upgrades for those?

Can we see more cars being produced?

[pantealex]

Have VW Motorsport suddenly made 10 new cars?
Any upgrades for those?

Can we see more cars being produced?

I don't know about others but those "Printsport ones" are made by Printsport. Body/Chassis is from VW but car is completely built in Lievestuore Finland.

[CWJ]

Others same style by Wevers with former VWM mechanics

[Jarek Z]

Citroen C3 Rally2 (car no. 100) goes to Poland. Its driver will be Michał Tochowicz, who is going to compete in Polish championship:
https://pl.motorsport.com/rsmp/news/citroen-numer-sto-w-polsce/9722914/

[RS]

What was the purpose of this test? March this year but old Fabia with Safari-style bull bars on the front.. weird.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP0qe1s4J7c

[pantealex]

What was the purpose of this test? March this year but old Fabia with Safari-style bull bars on the front.. weird.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP0qe1s4J7c

Maybe some "leading" driver is going/planning to do Safari, trying to get "easy" WRC2 points...

[HKSjbg]

What was the purpose of this test? March this year but old Fabia with Safari-style bull bars on the front.. weird.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP0qe1s4J7c

They’re not bull bars, they’re elk bars ;)

[RS]

Maybe some "leading" driver is going/planning to do Safari, trying to get "easy" WRC2 points...

I wondered that but is a test really needed for fitting bull bars and is snowy Czech gravel the best place to do it?!

[the sniper]

Could it be something to do with South America? Quite a few R5s down there so a market to serve. These 'bull bars' are relatively conservative compared to what you see on the likes of the Transchaco rally though...

[WRCStan]

Maybe some "leading" driver is going/planning to do Safari, trying to get "easy" WRC2 points...

Not just easy, but also bonus points for teams (and Master's Cup). Teams still needs two cars starting.

[Sulland]

Citroen C3 Rally2 (car no. 100) goes to Poland. Its driver will be Michał Tochowicz, who is going to compete in Polish championship:
https://pl.motorsport.com/rsmp/news/citroen-numer-sto-w-polsce/9722914/

The C3 has gone from being very difficult to drive for most drivers, and for most it felt dangerous is some situations on the loose.
Then they started a development program, and many parts of the car was changed. Now the C3 is a potential winner on all surfaces, and sell a lot of cars. Good work by Ostberg and the other drivers + the factory to turn it around!

2 other cars are in need of same program, Hyundai and Ford!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

2 other cars are in need of same program, Hyundai and Ford !

But both of those are still in WRC so have had other priorities ie. a Rally1 car to build and develop. And Toyota still haven't even made a Rally2 !

Citroen and Skoda total concentration on their Rally2 cars have unsurprisingly made them the better vehicles.

[Danny0405]

But both of those are still in WRC so have had other priorities ie. a Rally1 car to build and develop. And Toyota still haven't even made a Rally2 !

Citroen and Skoda total concentration on their Rally2 cars have unsurprisingly made them the better vehicles.

For M-Sport, it’s pretty clear that they decide to abandon the Rally2 category, at least for the moment. When I say «*abandon*», I mean just living with the current car with no real development and makes a few sales with it; the fact that they have no WRC-2 team, the number of sponsors Huttunen has on his car (whereas he is their lead driver) and the fact that Cais has his own structure are the best proves. They are just giving some backing to be able to compete. On the other hand, they are focusing on the new market of Rally3, and let’s be honest, it works well with more than 50 sales + Junior WRC (I thought it would be a complete failure) and they will be dominant for one more year (Renault will come in one year according to their plan). So with new Rally1 regulation + a new client category that is working well, we can understand they will do nothing on Rally2 for now (except some sales, maybe by being competitive on the price + the car is competitive on tarmac which could help in some countries); and don’t forget they have also Rally4 (even if Renault is a big competitor there).

For Hyundai, my understanding is that they are trying to do with Suninen the same job that Citroen did with Ostberg so I think they are in the development period. From what I understood, they will begin in Portugal because it was a little later and it allows to focus on gravel for World Rally drives (and they have Ciamin in France Tarmac). And with a start in Portugal, it is possible to do a full 7-round WRC-2 program in Europe for Suninen.

[Jarek Z]

Have you looked at the results of Rally Croatia? Not a single VW Polo in top 10. It seems only Citroen and Skoda count in WRC2!
https://rally-base.com/2022/croatia-rally-2022/?ssId=6794&cupId=161&ssGroupId=1

[Danny0405]

Have you looked at the results of Rally Croatia? Not a single VW Polo in top 10. It seems only Citroen and Skoda count in WRC2!
https://rally-base.com/2022/croatia-rally-2022/?ssId=6794&cupId=161&ssGroupId=1

Linammae was the only interesting driver in VW in Croatia (so it’s not an issue of speed but more about sales and commercial as we evoked in this topic earlier this year).
Don’t forget VW did a good performance in Sweden + Solans’ win in ERC.
And without Munster’s late mistake in MC, Mikkelsen would have been the only Skoda driver in the podium in both MC and Sweden.

But yeah for sure, VW car will not developed anymore so it will drop at one moment (but maybe not that fast considering the car is not ridiculous today).
Then, let’s see what Hyundai will succeed with Suninen.

[Sulland]

For M-Sport, it’s pretty clear that they decide to abandon the Rally2 category, at least for the moment. When I say «*abandon*», I mean just living with the current car with no real development and makes a few sales with it; the fact that they have no WRC-2 team.


I understand that M-Sport UK have a lot to do with Rally 1, and that they focus on that. Suddenly for the first time in years they have a car that can win, and they want to keep it that way!

M-Sport Poland has done other cars into winners in the junior classes, and have made the Rally 3 from scratch. So they have good knowledge on the customer/privateer market.
Why not give the Rally2 responsibility over to them. Engineering is done online anyway, so they get that support from the UK team, but R&D and testing is handeled from the polish arm.
Then they will have all customer based cars, and UK can focus 100% on Rally1.

[RS]

Improved safety and bodyshell strength in new Fabia:
https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/press-releases/new-generation-skoda-fabia-rally2-takes-crew-safety-to-next-level/?utm_source=twitter

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Is Skoda likely to return as a Manufacturer team in WRC2 2023 with the new Fabia, or will Toksport continue to be their outsourced team ?

[WRCStan]

I don't know about others but those "Printsport ones" are made by Printsport. Body/Chassis is from VW but car is completely built in Lievestuore Finland.


Others same style by Wevers with former VWM mechanics

Is this done with or without support from VW? Can anybody build them once they're homologated?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

SKODA Motorsport – Development of the new generation Skoda Fabia Rally2 is going ahead full steam. Lately, the test car received some serious beating on French gravel, where strength and durability was the main focus.

https://twitter.com/MotorsportSkoda/status/1526487692875268097?s=20&t=ZKp8c71yKHoJZr3VmChNag

[Walach]

The latest test video of new Fabia Rally2, apparently with Kopecky behind the wheel. The route is part of the former Rally Bohemia stage.
Strong rumours flying around that the car will have its debut at Rally Bohemia as a zero car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHP30SuB1Uc

[Co-driven]

And Finland should be the debut in international competition.

[RS]

The latest test video of new Fabia Rally2, apparently with Kopecky behind the wheel. The route is part of the former Rally Bohemia stage.
Strong rumours flying around that the car will have its debut at Rally Bohemia as a zero car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHP30SuB1Uc

Would have to be with a different driver as Kopecky will want to be in the main event. Meeke i guese who seems to have been the main test driver on all surfaces.

[RS]

What are the FIA homologation dates? Could they have it approved in time for a proper entry on Bohemia?

[RS]

Interesting interview here re: new Fabia Rally 2 development, which they started before covid:

https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/skoda-world/innovation-and-technology/the-same-yet-different-production-fabia-vs-rally-fabia/?utm_source=twitter

[PLuto]

What are the FIA homologation dates? Could they have it approved in time for a proper entry on Bohemia?

There is no plan to have homologated car for Bohemia.

[RS]

Another Fabia engine failure in Sardinia (Kremer). i suppose the new car will have been designed with the biofuel in mind, but is there anything they can do about the issue with the old car? Too late for jokers i guess.

[Walach]

I am not sure what can be done regarding the biofuel issue, but the fact is that Skoda has been testing the old car with biofuel - that test with bullbar, in snow conditions, middle of March this year.

[WRCStan]

Another Fabia engine failure in Sardinia (Kremer). i suppose the new car will have been designed with the biofuel in mind, but is there anything they can do about the issue with the old car? Too late for jokers i guess.

The stewards decision on Kremer mentions "Skoda is delivering a mapping which is developed for P1 Racing fuel", so you would think so.

[RS]

The stewards decision on Kremer mentions "Skoda is delivering a mapping which is developed for P1 Racing fuel", so you would think so.

I thought the problem was that the biofuel caused extra corrosion of certain parts?

[RS]

Toksport think the problem is not the fuel but the engine ingesting sand when running through ruts which forces sand over the bonnet. Still seems strange to me this problem hasn't occurred before, maybe Mikkelsen is running a lower set up on the front?

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/skoda-to-analyze-root-cause-of-mikkelsens-italy-retirement/

[WRCStan]

I thought the problem was that the biofuel caused extra corrosion of certain parts?

It was one issue, the other was fuel diluting the engine oil. See the letter from P1 - https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1VDVBExjf6UIbGo7m32OM1Tz_NEp1FxBg

I don't know which or what happened to Kremer or seen anything about any others. So a mapping may help the flood but not the rot. Wonder though how easy to do this is, what if you want to go back to pure fossil for the next event?

[mknight]

Toksport think the problem is not the fuel but the engine ingesting sand when running through ruts which forces sand over the bonnet. Still seems strange to me this problem hasn't occurred before, maybe Mikkelsen is running a lower set up on the front?

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/skoda-to-analyze-root-cause-of-mikkelsens-italy-retirement/

Toksport had like 8? cars in both Portugal and Sardinia, and none else gets any sand over the bonnet in 30ish stages? Sounds weird.

Also shouldn't the design of the air intake+filter prevent this?

Toksport says the car was exactly same on both ralllies except the engine. Maybe there is some leak in some of the parts that weren't replaced with the engine?

EDIT: I see now that Kremer retired due to engine on both Portugal and Sardinia, and also with same car. Faulty batch of parts?

[RS]

Yes, it can't be some design floor. Must be a dodgy batch of parts as you say or something in the way the affected cars have been assembled or set up.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Mellors' Iriz R5 back in action in France at Rally Vosges Grand Est:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FU4lwmPWYAELoEV?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FU6ReFCXsAEgRJG?format=jpg&name=large

[RS]

New Fabia to be presented tomorrow evening, will be known as Fabia RS Rally 2.

https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/press-releases/new-rally-vehicle-named-skoda-fabia-rs-rally2/?utm_source=social_media

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVKKnNdWAAUe3dd?format=jpg&name=large

[Eli]

https://youtu.be/nGnNdWKoTtk

New Skoda Fabia RS Rally2 Reveal

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Nice live presentation with clear details about the car, its development and testing.

Also good to hear from each of the test driver's. Meeke stating it's as quick as the 2016-gen WRC cars on the same stages really shows the progress in this Class.

[RS]

Given that the old car has just won the last WRC2 and ERC event and the new one has more power and torque, more downforce and better weight distribution I’m confident it will be pretty good!

Looking forward to seeing it take to the stages.

[RS]

Official test footage, good to see more on gravel. Engine sounds gutsy!

https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/cs/tiskove-mapy/skoda-fabia-rs-rally2-tiskova-mapa/videa/attachment/fabia_rs_rally2_tests/

[Sulland]

What physical dimensions, and wheelbase does it have?

Is it aprox as the Polo?

[RS]

What physical dimensions, and wheelbase does it have?

Is it aprox as the Polo?

Fabia is slightly bigger in all dimensions (a few tens of mms)

[jcevc]

For me it looks like Polo R5 from side view.

[Sulland]

Is it homologated yet, if not when do they plan for?
Can keen drivers or teams order one yet?

[AnttiL]

1st August

[RS]

Nice video by Dirtfish:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKc3_Gv9Z_8&t=330s

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fabia is slightly bigger in all dimensions (a few tens of mms)

The new Fabia almost looks like it's from a class above, rather than a 'supermini'.

[RS]

The new Fabia almost looks like it's from a class above, rather than a 'supermini'.

Yeah, it's not far off a Golf. Most Skoda models tend to be slightly bigger than the class average.

[Sulland]

Any prices mentioned yet for the 3rd generation Fabia?

What is your guesstimate for new car, gravel and asphalt, normal sparepart set for a season in a national series?

[HKSjbg]

The new Fabia almost looks like it's from a class above, rather than a 'supermini'.

I believe it’s the only car in it’s class that has gone above 4100mm long. I’ve seen a few in the metal but they didn’t strike me as that big. Perhaps if I saw one next to something like a Yaris it would!

[RS]

Meeke reckons he's done more miles testing the Fabia than he's ever done before in a year:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rally2-vs-wrc-why-theyre-developed-differently/

[TWRC]

BTW, do we have any info where PSA/Stellantis is planning to go on the Rally2 front? The C3 is nearing the end of its lifespan, but no news on the successor, or at least I didn't come across it.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's a tricky time to be planning on changing or creating a new Rally2 car. How long will it be until the switch to hybrid or full-electric comes and will a car be able to be retro-fitted with the new tech ?

[PLuto]

I am afraid that after new Skoda Fabia RS Rally2 we will see only one more new current Rally2 car and that will be all...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I am afraid that after new Skoda Fabia RS Rally2 we will see only one more new current Rally2 car and that will be all...

The Fiesta is getting older now... Puma Rally2 ?

[Kenneth]

It's a tricky time to be planning on changing or creating a new Rally2 car. How long will it be until the switch to hybrid or full-electric comes and will a car be able to be retro-fitted with the new tech ?

Citroën made electric rallycross C3, which was retrofitted Rally2.

[Eli]

The Fiesta is getting older now... Puma Rally2 ?

How long has it been now? 3 years since they’ve introduced it?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Citroën made electric rallycross C3, which was retrofitted Rally2.

That was just fitting the Stard kit and made specifically for rallycross. Fitting a hybrid/ electric motor in an existing ICE rally car, for stage use over many kms, is a different thing altogether.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

How long has it been now? 3 years since they’ve introduced it?

Yep. And with the Puma taking over as the Rally1 you would expect a Puma Rally2 to do the same.

[Eli]

Yep. And with the Puma taking over as the Rally1 you would expect a Puma Rally2 to do the same.

Well if they'd do that won't they also have to change the Fiesta Rally3 & so forth? Perhaps they're waiting for someone in the FIA to get off their butts and change the regulations of Rally2/R5 after next to nothing has been done to them since they introduced them back in 2013.

[HKSjbg]

Yep. And with the Puma taking over as the Rally1 you would expect a Puma Rally2 to do the same.

I’d be very surprised if that happens. The taller body would surely make it too hamstrung right from the off compared to other hatchback-based rally cars. The only reason this isn’t a problem for the Rally1 is the spaceframe chassis concept

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I’d be very surprised if that happens. The taller body would surely make it too hamstrung right from the off compared to other hatchback-based rally cars. The only reason this isn’t a problem for the Rally1 is the spaceframe chassis concept

I see your point, but the Puma is based on the Fiesta anyway so I can see it being possible to just lower the Puma and make it viable as a rally car.

Also the Puma is the big seller now (above the Fiesta) so Ford will want to capitalise on that. And Ex-Ford boss Gerrard Quinn said on Twitter he expects M-Sport to be working on it...

[pantealex]

I see your point, but the Puma is based on the Fiesta anyway so I can see it being possible to just lower the Puma and make it viable as a rally car.

Also the Puma is the big seller now (above the Fiesta) so Ford will want to capitalise on that. And Ex-Ford boss Gerrard Quinn said on Twitter he expects M-Sport to be working on it...

Yep, they don't sell Fiesta anymore in USA which is FORD´s biggest market. Most of Fiesta sales nowadays are 5-door models, I believe UK is only place where they sell huge amounts of 3-doors. (registration of 3-door Fiesta in Finland 2020-21 was around 25pcs, Fiesta totally around 1000pcs, many of those Active or Vignale models)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Yep, they don't sell Fiesta anymore in USA which is FORD´s biggest market. Most of Fiesta sales nowadays are 5-door models, I believe UK is only place where they sell huge amounts of 3-doors. (registration of 3-door Fiesta in Finland 2020-21 was around 25pcs, Fiesta totally around 1000pcs, many of those Active or Vignale models)

Ford dont sell ANY cars in the USA now, only SUVs and pick-ups !

The last sporty 3-door car, the Fiesta, has now officially stopped production ! The crossovers and 4x4s are killing the market for them, even though every other niche is catered for. :(

[Sulland]

I am afraid that after new Skoda Fabia RS Rally2 we will see only one more new current Rally2 car and that will be all...

Will the other new one be from the Stellantis comglomerate?

For how long will the current Rally2 regs be in action?

[denkimi]

Also the Puma is the big seller now (above the Fiesta) so Ford will want to capitalise on that.

Why would you want to promote you already best selling product even more? It would make more sense to promote the less selling cars.