Rally2 (ex-R5) News

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Why would you want to promote you already best selling product even more? It would make more sense to promote the less selling cars.

Their only other rally car, the Fiesta, is coming to the end of production according to rumours. If there is to be another Ford Rally2 it has to be a Puma.

[WRCStan]

Do Ford really care about Rally2? In my head, other than approving the affiliation, that's pure M-Sport business.

[WRCStan]

Will the other new one be from the Stellantis comglomerate?

I want to push PLuto on this too. Peugeot 208 is next up to lapse, in 2024...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's going to take some serious work and investment by anyone who wants to make a new Rally2 if they have any hope of competing with the new Skoda.

[RS]

Fabia undisguised: https://youtu.be/qb0RNdkCXgQ

I guess that's Andreas driving the zero car on Bohemia then..

[Sulland]

Do Ford really care about Rally2? In my head, other than approving the affiliation, that's pure M-Sport business.

The headquarter operation in the UK seems to have their hands full with Rally1.
As I have said before, the Polish arm should be given responsibility for all Customer Rally cars, then we could see movement on development on their Rally2 car.

[wyler]

The headquarter operation in the UK seems to have their hands full with Rally1.
As I have said before, the Polish arm should be given responsibility for all Customer Rally cars, then we could see movement on development on their Rally2 car.

i think no-one will move before the new 2025 reg. for now, the thing to do is rally3 and maybe the super lowcost rally5e

[WRCStan]

The headquarter operation in the UK seems to have their hands full with Rally1.
As I have said before, the Polish arm should be given responsibility for all Customer Rally cars, then we could see movement on development on their Rally2 car.

Don't think it matters if they aren't running any. Maybe in the future it'd make sense to be based where the market is.

FWIW I meant Ford-Ford, blue oval people who produce consumer road vehicles.

[Walach]

Few pics from yesterday's Fabia RS rally2 test with Mikkelsen behind the wheel. The word really is that he will drive at Rally Bohemia as a zero car.
https://www.facebook.com/100045342082013/posts/pfbid0aZrtf4xWbiJBw33FLsE9P7uEH3EJQRr5o3qQZbZAm9D8 FbfgDYw7YYVrW2rF1zB8l/?d=n

[RS]

I don't think Andreas has driven the car on tarmac much, if at all, so makes sense to give him a go before the debut.

[RS]

Few pics from yesterday's Fabia RS rally2 test with Mikkelsen behind the wheel. The word really is that he will drive at Rally Bohemia as a zero car.
https://www.facebook.com/100045342082013/posts/pfbid0aZrtf4xWbiJBw33FLsE9P7uEH3EJQRr5o3qQZbZAm9D8 FbfgDYw7YYVrW2rF1zB8l/?d=n

Confirmed: https://www.skoda-motorsport.com/en/bohemia-rally-mlada-boleslav-debut-of-the-skoda-fabia-rs-rally2-on-rally-stages/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fabia RS aero - the key points:

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2022/07/06/the-new-skoda-fabia-rs-rally2-aerodynamics-key-points/

[RS]

Shakedown and SS1 of Rally Bohemia today with Mikkelsen as zero car in the new Fabia. Hopefully someone will be taking some unnoficial timings..

No official debut in Finland though.. maybe Barum instead?

[Sulland]

How does the new Fabia look, sound and compare with the old one in Bohemia?

[RS]

How does the new Fabia look, sound and compare with the old one in Bohemia?

A good video to compare them: https://youtu.be/k9BkTCOFpCY

[RS]

And another: https://youtu.be/dR8kr-mmX3c

Spectacular driving by Mares in particular.. the twisty bit through the town is a good place to compare. The old Fabia is super agile (remember Kopecky's Deutschland SSS win?)

New one you can see the extra size, on the other hand it looks tighter in body control. Both look powerful from low revs but Kopecky says the power delivery in the new one is instant, even from below tickover revs.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

And another: https://youtu.be/dR8kr-mmX3c

Spectacular driving by Mares in particular.. the twisty bit through the town is a good place to compare. The old Fabia is super agile (remember Kopecky's Deutschland SSS win?)

New one you can see the extra size, on the other hand it looks tighter in body control. Both look powerful from low revs but Kopecky says the power delivery in the new one is instant, even from below tickover revs.

Any direct comparison is nice at this stage and what you say is correct re body control. The size of the RS is apparent too.. it looks as big as the Focus WRC in the video.

[RS]

Another great video from Bohemia which i already posted in Czech Rally News: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RUc6nEqXFPA

[AnttiL]

Fiesta updates

https://twitter.com/msportltd/status/1547472821047156741?s=21&t=NTaZYGuQIieeMQXU3DazUA

[RS]

Fiesta updates

https://twitter.com/msportltd/status/1547472821047156741?s=21&t=NTaZYGuQIieeMQXU3DazUA

Will watch Huttunen’s times in Estonia with interest. Watching onboards from Latvia the car looks kinda heavy/lazy compared to other Rally2s.

[PLuto]

Fiesta updates

https://twitter.com/msportltd/status/1547472821047156741?s=21&t=NTaZYGuQIieeMQXU3DazUA

Nothing really important...

[Sulland]

Well, lets wait and see on the Fiesta rear suspension upgrade. This has been the problem issue area for the Mk2 since the start. Hopefully they have found the root cause, and fixed it.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Will watch Huttunen’s times in Estonia with interest. Watching onboards from Latvia the car looks kinda heavy/lazy compared to other Rally2s.

Fastest on the superspecial (SS1) which was quite a good test of agility.

[AnttiL]

Fastest on the superspecial (SS1) which was quite a good test of agility.

Actually this kind of stages say nothing about the car ability. Huttunen is pretty good on them. Let’s see tomorrow.

[AnttiL]

Actually this kind of stages say nothing about the car ability. Huttunen is pretty good on them. Let’s see tomorrow.

Huttunen lost 24.4s to Mikkelsen/Kaur on the first stage...would love to hear if there was an issue.

[Jarek Z]

Huttunen lost 24.4s to Mikkelsen/Kaur on the first stage...would love to hear if there was an issue.

After 3 stages Huttunen is only 8th in WRC2. It doesn't look very promising.

[RS]

A good compilation of Mikkelsen at Rally Bohemia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h1-HuzdOt8

If his last event in the old car was Rally Estonia, that powerstage was a nice way to finish!

[PLuto]

A good compilation of Mikkelsen at Rally Bohemia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h1-HuzdOt8

If his last event in the old car was Rally Estonia, that powerstage was a nice way to finish!

I think it was not his last event in the old car...

[RS]

I think it was not his last event in the old car...

Interesting! it would be quite risky switching to the new one whilst fighting for a title.. even the Fabia S2000 and R5 didn’t win on their international debuts IIRC.

Might be safer to put some ‘extra’ drivers in the new car this year (Kopecky/Meeke in Spain would be good to see for example)

[mknight]

Question is what is more risky for Greece?
New car with likely not as good reliability and not optimized settings or old car with possibility for engine failure?
(If they identified the cause of the engine failures and it's not something that can't be fixed then old car is safer pick).

For Catalunya or Japan new car might be preferred as Mikkelsen likes the turn in on the new car on tarmac better. If they decide to go to NZ, new car might be noticably faster, but probably unlikely to be shipped all the way there in time.

[RS]

I think they identified the cause of the engine failures and I presume it was a dodgy batch of parts or incorrect assembly of something. Kajto made it through Safari ok!

I agree the new car ought to be at it’s best on a fast and smooth rally like Spain or NZ. Old car still seems to be performing pretty well though, Mikkelsen surprised me with his speed in Estonia.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I wonder what Toksport think as it could affect them too if the new car is used and has issues ?

The old Fabia Evo is still winning so it would make sense to see out this season with it for those with Championships at stake.

[mknight]

I think that Mikkelsen might struggle to beat Rossel in Catalunya with the old car (if they go for that rally). He reportedly doesn't like how it understeers on smooth tarmac.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Supply issues causing delay to Fabia RS debut, plus Fabia Evo issue solved:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/skoda-fabia-rs-rally2-debut-delayed-by-production-issues/

[PLuto]

Supply issues causing delay to Fabia RS debut, plus Fabia Evo issue solved:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/skoda-fabia-rs-rally2-debut-delayed-by-production-issues/

This is nothing new. Original plan for debut in Finland was postponed many weeks ago...

[Danny0405]

This is nothing new. Original plan for debut in Finland was postponed many weeks ago...

Yeah and if I remember well, Skoda boss told it is Greece ... at best depending on the supply issues.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-SPORT PLEASED WITH FIESTA UPGRADE DESPITE ESTONIA RESULT

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/m-sport-pleased-with-fiesta-upgrade-despite-estonia-result/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fiesta aero update and comparison to the Rally2 trends.:

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2022/07/25/upgraded-aero-package-for-the-ford-fiesta-rally2/

[mknight]

Regarding new Fabia, J.Porter says earliest Catalunya and even that is not certain.

[WRCStan]

Regarding new Fabia, J.Porter says earliest Catalunya and even that is not certain.

Think he also said "at this level" (WRC)

[mknight]

At the end he said that yes.

But before Spain the only good and obvious choice is Barum, which might be too early.

[RS]

At the end he said that yes.

But before Spain the only good and obvious choice is Barum, which might be too early.

Barum as zero car again seems likely. I doubt Kopecky would swap to the new car until the title is wrapped up.

Has it even been homologated yet?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

You'd think with the time it's taken producing the new car Skoda would've timed the full competition launch better.

The publicity at their home rally of Barum as the part of the Czech championship and a round of the ERC would've been a great platform.

[mknight]

Well a year ago Hyundai was late (twice delayed I think), and when finally competing the car was both unreliable and slow. Took at least half a year to be competetive.
Surely something Skoda wants to avoid.

Actually I wonder which recent R5 was both competetive and reliable when released?
Polo wasn't reliable
C3 wasn't competetive besides smooth tarmac.

[Sal yet again]

Other than the recent fuel related issues with some examples of the existing car you would expect the Fabia once again to be the class of the field. I had heard some drivers preferring the E1 to the E2 handling wise however results speak for themselves.

They know what they are doing and you only have to look at ewrc results to see which car is winning weekend after weekend. Ford other than in the UK, MSports home market and in the Canary Islands are way behind leaving Hyundai and VW to pick up the pieces.

[Jarek Z]

They know what they are doing and you only have to look at ewrc results to see which car is winning weekend after weekend.

Have a look at the first 12 cars in the Italian gravel championship :)
https://www.rallylink.it/pdf/classifiche/2022/cirt.pdf

[logic]

You'd think with the time it's taken producing the new car Skoda would've timed the full competition launch better.

The publicity at their home rally of Barum as the part of the Czech championship and a round of the ERC would've been a great platform.

It is not that easy when your suppliers, supplier is backlogged and cant supply any one.It is just how things are at this point.

[RS]

Well a year ago Hyundai was late (twice delayed I think), and when finally competing the car was both unreliable and slow. Took at least half a year to be competetive.
Surely something Skoda wants to avoid.

Actually I wonder which recent R5 was both competetive and reliable when released?
Polo wasn't reliable
C3 wasn't competetive besides smooth tarmac.

Creating a good R5/Rally2 car seems really difficult due to the cost restrictions and requirement for many ‘off the shelf’ parts to be used. Especially considering that the spec is largely locked in apart from a few jokers being allowed you’d think the manufacturers would put more effort into properly testing their cars prior to homologation, but only Skoda seem to bother. They certainly did more testing with the new Fabia than Hyundai (and maybe the others too) did with their Rally1 cars.

[mknight]

Have a look at the first 12 cars in the Italian gravel championship :)
https://www.rallylink.it/pdf/classifiche/2022/cirt.pdf

At " normal" slow to medium gravel Fabia seems clearly best and it is the most allround for combined championships.

On other specific surfaces it's not so clear to me. Polo still seems to be great on smooth and fast gravel/snow. C3 on tarmac (specially smooth one). Fiesta on wet/slippery tarmac. Maybe not enough starts for new i20 to judge.

[wyler]

Have a look at the first 12 cars in the Italian gravel championship :)
https://www.rallylink.it/pdf/classifiche/2022/cirt.pdf

honestly, italian gravel championship is not that much of a reference...

[mknight]

Meeke seemingly testing new Fabia in Greece.

Last moment changes or planned tests that got delayed?

[Co-driven]

Planned tests.

Apparently car was homologated in August, but due to shortage of spare parts they won't use it in Acropolis.
Lindholm should be testing in Greece also.

But, from what I heard, car still has some particularities and is a bit different to drive than the current one.

[RS]

Meeke/Floene in Greece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcq3ztNooOQ

[RS]

Lindholm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOnSM6POAes

[RS]

New Fabia was homologated on September 1st: https://www.auto.cz/skoda-fabia-rs-rally2-prosla-homologaci-fia-kdy-se-objevi-v-soutezi-145522

- This was delayed due to the requirement to produce a certain number of road cars on which it was based.

- They are short of everything (not just chips)

- Debut possibly not until Monte

[mknight]

In the Dirtfish article they write what likely is the main reason. That they want to start production and continue without stopping with at least 5 cars in first batch. They say they could run 1-2 now.

Also interesting that they call it "the most anticipated Rally2 ever".

I'd say Hyundai last year and maybe even more the Polo (if you include R5) were more anticipated.
Hyundai cause their previous car wasn't all that competetive and Polo cause VW motorsport dominated in WRC

Current Fabia is still probably the allround best car, even though some other cars are better in specific conditions.

But might be that people who want to buy brand new car have to wait for this, cause the current car is no longer produced.

[RS]

Maybe the works team will run a couple of cars on Catalunya to showcase it and concentrate on getting the customer cars built for the beginning of 2023?

[PLuto]

Maybe the works team will run a couple of cars on Catalunya to showcase it and concentrate on getting the customer cars built for the beginning of 2023?

No

[PLuto]

It is simple - they dont have enough parts for the cars. To build them and also to run them. So for them it is nonsense to start with new car and show its speed, when they are not able to sell the cars...

[RS]

Not even enough parts to run two cars on a tarmac rally?

[PLuto]

Not even enough parts to run two cars on a tarmac rally?

Why they should run the car on tarmac rally when they cannot sell it? It is nonsense to do it now...

[RS]

Why they should run the car on tarmac rally when they cannot sell it? It is nonsense to do it now...

From what we have been told about the car it should excel on a rally like Catalunya. It’s end of October.. they can take orders. nobody would expect it to be delivered until next year anyway. Unclear what the point of homologating it now was if they don’t intend to use it?

[PLuto]

From what we have been told about the car it should excel on a rally like Catalunya. It’s end of October.. they can take orders. nobody would expect it to be delivered until next year anyway. Unclear what the point of homologating it now was if they don’t intend to use it?

They have plenty of orders now. No need to make additional promo for car which cannot be sold...

[pantealex]

Ofcourse Skoda want to take all possible orders, if they don't, Citroen/Hyundai/MSport will get those orders...

[PLuto]

Ofcourse Skoda want to take all possible orders, if they don't, Citroen/Hyundai/MSport will get those orders...

If they dont, most of the competitors will wait. If somebody wants Skoda, they will take older Skoda Fabia Rally1 Evo rather than Citroen/Hyundai/Ford...

[manthey]

Is it also the most expensive among R5s?
Apart from the new Fabia, i20 is still pretty new as fiesta. Can we expext new generation from citroen/stellantis?

Inviato dal mio ELE-L29 utilizzando Tapatalk

[wyler]

Is it also the most expensive among R5s?
Apart from the new Fabia, i20 is still pretty new as fiesta. Can we expext new generation from citroen/stellantis?

Inviato dal mio ELE-L29 utilizzando Tapatalk

yes, if they go mild hybrid.

[mknight]

yes, if they go mild hybrid.

Or turned around, under current rules I believe this Fabia is the last car to be homologated under current rules.

Either they change the rules (slightly) or we get completely new rules and R5/Rally2 will slowly turn into "historic" class like N4 Evo/Imprezas did when R5 was introduced.

Problem with changing rules just a tiny bit might be that both new and old cars still need to have about same speed. Even some 20 kg mildhybrid will be a weight penalty and probably very little power gain. We could see how endurance racing struggled when they tried to make rules for different drivetrains or configurations, be it closed cockpit vs open, turbo vs NA, petrol vs diesel or hybrid vs diesel. Usually one of the two options turns out noticeably faster.

[M5]

With that many cars in the market, it is hard to kill the class.
And mild hybrid is a expensive dead end.

[WRCStan]

yes, if they go mild hybrid.


With that many cars in the market, it is hard to kill the class.
And mild hybrid is a expensive dead end.

Mild hybrid what the privateer wants is it?

[wyler]

Mild hybrid what the privateer wants is it?

don't know, but is what stellantis definitely want. (they openly asked it more than once)

[AnttiL]

I could see a Rally2 Hybrid side class being created for manu teams and WRC2 primarly, with privateers and national championships run with old cars.

[WRCStan]

I could see a Rally2 Hybrid side class being created for manu teams and WRC2 primarly, with privateers and national championships run with old cars.

I can't, that'd threaten the existence of an already too fragile Rally1 whilst not serving the manufacturer unless they subscribed to the same costs anyway, something Skoda don't want to do either - but at least they have Rally2 sales, which would have to have hybrid forced onto the customer, which would only work if it's cheap, reliable, free IP... can't see it.

It might be coming to Rally1 soon though lol.

[RS]

If they dont, most of the competitors will wait. If somebody wants Skoda, they will take older Skoda Fabia Rally1 Evo rather than Citroen/Hyundai/Ford...

Are they still building new chassis of the old car? I thought they stopped that some time ago.

I still can’t agree on the logic with not running the new car. Apart from the promotion issue, I would have thought it would be quite useful for them to see how it performs on a real rally ahead of next season starting, instead of it just sitting around gathering dust for another few months.

[Sulland]

Mild hybrid what the privateer wants is it?

They do not, because

- Cars will be more costly to buy
- Cars will be more advanced and harder and more costly to maintain.
- It takes time to get a good 2. hand market for people to start. Today you can buy an old Fabia R5 and fight in the top, in national series. Would be stupid from FIA to kill off the most successful carclass they have.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I'm not sure hybrid in rally cars does much at all for selling road cars, even with the Rally1's. Putting it in Rally2's would have little effect for the promotion of it on the road models which have been around for years already.

If anyone takes anything from rallying to decide their purchase its probably sportiness, toughness and reliability.

[CWJ]

plan with Mikkelsen in new Fabia @lausitzrallye

https://forum.rallye-magazin.de/thread/81764-skoda-will-fabia-rally2-in-der-lausitz-einsetzen/

[RS]

plan with Mikkelsen in new Fabia @lausitzrallye

https://forum.rallye-magazin.de/thread/81764-skoda-will-fabia-rally2-in-der-lausitz-einsetzen/

Weird.

He is testing in a snazzy new livery at the moment: https://twitter.com/AM89news/status/1579726973316005889?t=6yYliLIOBFy3Strzz8rSdw&s=19

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/rallit-fi-paljastaa-toyotan-rallitiimin-suuri-salaisuus-naki-paivanvalonsa-piilossa-yleisolta/

Toyota has tested their new Rally2 car last week, but it's still all officially a secret.

[Jarek Z]

https://www.rallit.fi/rallit-fi-paljastaa-toyotan-rallitiimin-suuri-salaisuus-naki-paivanvalonsa-piilossa-yleisolta/

Toyota has tested their new Rally2 car last week, but it's still all officially a secret.

Finally some good news in the Rally2 thread!

[Sal yet again]

About time! With the new Fabia coming on-line soon we need another manufacturer to keep them honest and you have to assume Toyota/TGMR will do a proper job.

[mknight]

Didn't Latvala say they would develop a Rally3 car first as there was less competition?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Good news but they could've done all this much sooner.

The Yaris AP4 car running down-under has been doing well and I'm sure Toyota could've used some of the info from that to get going instead of looking at all the other Rally2 cars.

[Kenneth]

Weird.

He is testing in a snazzy new livery at the moment: https://twitter.com/AM89news/status/1579726973316005889?t=6yYliLIOBFy3Strzz8rSdw&s=19


According to Czech regional newspaper Deník there were showcase day for media a guests.

[pantealex]

The Yaris AP4 car running down-under has been doing well and I'm sure Toyota could've used some of the info from that to get going instead of looking at all the other Rally2 cars.

I´m sure that looking at all other Rally2 cars is way more useful than looking AP4 car.

[RS]

According to Czech regional newspaper Deník there were showcase day for media a guests.

Video from this event with a special guest car:
https://youtu.be/EffVRbq_6-k

[RS]

Longer video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9Jk2XylrE4

When the driver gets it right, it’s super impressive how this car can turn on a sixpence and drive off with instant response from the engine (see 6m20)

[dimviii]

yes its engine is very impressive from what we have seen.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I´m sure that looking at all other Rally2 cars is way more useful than looking AP4 car.

Maybe to fine-tune the car, but when they're only just starting I'm sure the AP4 car is a good basis.

[AnttiL]

Maybe to fine-tune the car, but when they're only just starting I'm sure the AP4 car is a good basis.

It’s a different regulation

[manthey]

Longer video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9Jk2XylrE4

When the driver gets it right, it’s super impressive how this car can turn on a sixpence and drive off with instant response from the engine (see 6m20)Very sharp!

Who is the test driver?

[RS]

Very sharp!

Who is the test driver?

I think Lindholm as he’s standing there at the start of the video.

[pantealex]

Maybe to fine-tune the car, but when they're only just starting I'm sure the AP4 car is a good basis.

Maybe you don't know or remember that in Rally2/R5 car all "4 corners" must be fitted with same parts (dampers, hubs etc) so AP4 isn't useful at all.

[Sulland]

Didn't Latvala say they would develop a Rally3 car first as there was less competition?

He was not sure back then. But a better option to put up and coming drivers into a Raly2 to look for potential.
I hope they make a Rally3 in 24, with some input from the Rally2.

[Jarek Z]

According to the following article and photos (at the bottom) Kris Meeke was testing Skoda Fabia RS Rally2 a few days ago:
https://pl.motorsport.com/wrc/news/kris-meeke-nie-wyklucza-powrotu/10386002/#gal-10386002-m0-kris-meeke-skoda-fabia-rs-rally2-64901302

[RS]

According to the following article and photos (at the bottom) Kris Meeke was testing Skoda Fabia RS Rally2 a few days ago:
https://pl.motorsport.com/wrc/news/kris-meeke-nie-wyklucza-powrotu/10386002/#gal-10386002-m0-kris-meeke-skoda-fabia-rs-rally2-64901302

This was from the ‘RS Experience’ event they ran last week presenting the car to journalists.. interesting things from the article; almost 150 orders have been received already and deliveries should start in November.

[MartijnS]

Mikkelsen will drive the Lausitz Rally in Germany with it first weekend of november.

[Jarek Z]

This was from the ‘RS Experience’ event they ran last week presenting the car to journalists.. interesting things from the article; almost 150 orders have been received already and deliveries should start in November.

Thanks for more info! 150 orders already, that looks great, doesn't it? I hope it will be another great car from Skoda!

[Sulland]

Skoda have produced aprox 400 R5s, 200 Rally2 evo, and have orders for 150 RS Rally2 cars.
So 750 cars sold from level 2 in the rally world. That is an amazing achievement, and a success not many in the motorsportsworld can match!!

[manthey]

Skoda have produced aprox 400 R5s, 200 Rally2 evo, and have orders for 150 RS Rally2 cars.
So 750 cars sold from level 2 in the rally world. That is an amazing achievement, and a success not many in the motorsportsworld can match!!In the numbers&facts Skoda dominates and now has a legacy

The biggest plus are in the fields of driveability, reliability, all around performance

Other cars are maybe better in certain surfaces (citroen/polo) but overall not so easy to drive if you are not a PRO.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Maybe you don't know or remember that in Rally2/R5 car all "4 corners" must be fitted with same parts (dampers, hubs etc) so AP4 isn't useful at all.

"Suspension and chassis wise, the AP4 was designed with simplicity in mind, again for private teams to be able to run the cars and trying to keep costs down. So we have interchangeable uprights and suspension arms in all the corners,” said Paddon.

“In terms of the suspension, obviously very upright so we probably have limited travel compared to some Rally2 cars, but in terms of specification of the dampers, very much the same.

“Same technology inside these dampers as what you’ll find in Rally2 cars. Brake packages [are] all very standard. All the same across all four corners as a Rally2 car."

[Kenneth]

Skoda have produced aprox 400 R5s, 200 Rally2 evo, and have orders for 150 RS Rally2 cars.
So 750 cars sold from level 2 in the rally world. That is an amazing achievement, and a success not many in the motorsportsworld can match!!

Also about 100 S2000s

[pantealex]

"Suspension and chassis wise, the AP4 was designed with simplicity in mind, again for private teams to be able to run the cars and trying to keep costs down. So we have interchangeable uprights and suspension arms in all the corners,” said Paddon.

“In terms of the suspension, obviously very upright so we probably have limited travel compared to some Rally2 cars, but in terms of specification of the dampers, very much the same.

“Same technology inside these dampers as what you’ll find in Rally2 cars. Brake packages [are] all very standard. All the same across all four corners as a Rally2 car."

So his Hyundai is like Rally2 but that still doesn't help Toyota at all ...

[Sulland]

So looks like Stellantis close plan has been made.
-Citroen for Rally2
-Still no signal for Rally3
-Peugeot and Opel in Rally4 and 5.

Hopefully one brand will make a Rally3.

[manthey]

So looks like Stellantis close plan has been made.
-Citroen for Rally2
-Still no signal for Rally3
-Peugeot and Opel in Rally4 and 5.

Hopefully one brand will make a Rally3.New car for Rally2?

[Eli]

New car for Rally2?

I think he (Didier Clément) said that they'll just continue on developing the C3 Rally2, no news about a new WRC2 car though.
It's from this article:https://www.autohebdo.fr/actualites/rallye/wrc/didier-clement-nous-allons-continuer-avec-yohan-rossel-en-2023.html

[Sulland]

New car for Rally2?

Not sure, but have given Rossels name for a backed season in WRC2.

But that is a tough field of cars, so maybe easier to get a title in WRC3.

[AnttiL]

Finnish TV said that Hyundai i20 N Rally2 has bad torque, it must be used at a narrow rev range, otherwise there's no torque. For example Skoda is better in this sense.

[Jarek Z]

ERC 2022 has just finished. 15 Skodas in top 20:
https://www.fiaerc.com/erc/results---standings/championship-standings/erc/

[manthey]

I think he (Didier Clément) said that they'll just continue on developing the C3 Rally2, no news about a new WRC2 car though.
It's from this article:https://www.autohebdo.fr/actualites/rallye/wrc/didier-clement-nous-allons-continuer-avec-yohan-rossel-en-2023.htmlMaybe some jokers left
Crugnola won italian championship 2022 with C3

[manthey]

Finnish TV said that Hyundai i20 N Rally2 has bad torque, it must be used at a narrow rev range, otherwise there's no torque. For example Skoda is better in this sense.Maybe they will fix.
Previous gen Hyundai R5 was with more torque? Solans entrylist in catalunya was with that old

Crugnola(2021) and Basso (2022)used new i20

[skarderud]

New car for Rally2?I understanded in an intervju with Østberg that Citröen would quit Rally2, but one of the other Stellantis brands will build a car instead.
I understanded that Stellantis wanted a brand in each category, also the top class.
But who knows, times is changing rapidly these days.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[TWRC]

I understanded in an intervju with Østberg that Citröen would quit Rally2, but one of the other Stellantis brands will build a car instead.
I understanded that Stellantis wanted a brand in each category, also the top class.
But who knows, times is changing rapidly these days.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk
Both Peugeot and Fiat/Abarth/Lancia would be viable options, but they've been very quiet about this lately...

[manthey]

I understanded in an intervju with Østberg that Citröen would quit Rally2, but one of the other Stellantis brands will build a car instead.
I understanded that Stellantis wanted a brand in each category, also the top class.
But who knows, times is changing rapidly these days.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

Peugeot sounds good as legacy with the 207 s2000.
Lancia still no new model
Abarth for heritage

[skarderud]

Yes, wery quiet from Stellantis.
Opel has Rally 4 and 5, and this electric one.
Renault is not Stellantis?
Citröen has Rally2, but put it down?
So, what brand can step in eventually?
Fiat, Peugeot, Lancia, abarth? One of the US ones, if they have a WRC in america?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Andre Oliveira]

Mikkelsen and Eriksen will debut it (Toksport unit) at Lausitz Rallye.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ff_yd-NXEAErpaN?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ff_yd-JWIAEhklP?format=jpg&name=large

[RS]

Looks like it's setup for Safari!

Still think it's weird they chose Lausitz (where they will learn almost nothing) instead of Catalunya. I guess the real reason was they didn't want to interfere with the end of the WRC2 season.

[Sulland]

See text in red below.


Yes, wery quiet from Stellantis.
Opel has Rally 4 and 5, and this electric one. Only 4. all tech parts is from Pug 208.
Renault is not Stellantis?No, Renault/Nissan
Citröen has Rally2, but put it down? Someone have said that, nothing confirmed.
So, what brand can step in eventually? My guess would be Pug or Opel, since they have a Rally4 already. But who knowes!
Fiat, Peugeot, Lancia, abarth? One of the US ones, if they have a WRC in america?
I am guessing no US brand is interested.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[PLuto]

Still think it's weird they chose Lausitz (where they will learn almost nothing) instead of Catalunya. I guess the real reason was they didn't want to interfere with the end of the WRC2 season.

They dont need to learn anything. This start is mainly to show the speed of car. And as they needed/wanted to start with the car this year, not so many events on at least average level was available...

[manthey]

Mikkelsen and Eriksen will debut it (Toksport unit) at Lausitz Rallye.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ff_yd-NXEAErpaN?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ff_yd-JWIAEhklP?format=jpg&name=large

Rear supension/damper position pretty extreme

[RS]

They dont need to learn anything. This start is mainly to show the speed of car. And as they needed/wanted to start with the car this year, not so many events on at least average level was available...

Obviously Catalunya would have been better. But it's nice to see Andreas will get a proper event in the car before he goes off to Hyundai.

[Sal yet again]

Event is irrelevant I guess. It will sell like hot cakes anyways..

[PLuto]

Obviously Catalunya would have been better. But it's nice to see Andreas will get a proper event in the car before he goes off to Hyundai.

Why it would have been better? :)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ex-Ford boss Gerrard Quinn has said a few times now that M-Sport Ford's logical next Rally2 car will be a Puma.

As it's based on the Fiesta chassis I suppose this is viable although it's a high-riding crossover in road form.

Plus the Citroen C3 was one and that has turned out ok as a Rally2 car (eventually).

[Jarek Z]

Still think it's weird they chose Lausitz (where they will learn almost nothing) instead of Catalunya. I guess the real reason was they didn't want to interfere with the end of the WRC2 season.

Or maybe they prefer to debut their new car with a win instead of the 12th place or sth?

Anyway, with this entry list Mikkelsen shouldn't have many problems:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries/74918-int-admv-lausitz-rallye-2022/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Pics of the Fabia RS in new livery in test action..
https://www.instagram.com/p/CkQWC4EDEaT/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[Andre Oliveira]

GR Yaris Rally2 will be revealed in Japan with KKK at the wheel

https://car-watch-impress-co-jp.translate.goog/docs/news/1451811.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=pt-PT&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[manthey]

GR Yaris Rally2 will be revealed in Japan with KKK at the wheel

https://car-watch-impress-co-jp.translate.goog/docs/news/1451811.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=pt-PT&_x_tr_pto=wappThis could be a serious opponent to skoda Fabia's dominance

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Nice move by Toyota to get maximum publicity for their new Yaris Rally2 at the WRC event.

[dimviii]

dont know i the photo is real
http://rallynoticias.com/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FgZk-gXWIAArfrh?format=jpg&name=small

[AnttiL]

dont know i the photo is real
http://rallynoticias.com/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/fgzk-gxwiaarfrh?format=jpg&name=small

ap4?

[ouvreur]

ap4?

Correct, I would say.

[Humber]

Render of a Bates' Australian Yaris GR AP4. The graphics are probably from Iain Chandler.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/this-toyota-gr-yaris-is-going-rallying-in-australia/

[Jarek Z]

It looks better than Yaris Rally 1.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyotas-rally2-yaris-to-break-cover-at-rally-japan/

"Toyota will be at pains to point out that this is a very early development car, with the firm’s very first Rally2 car not available to customers until 2024."

[skarderud]

Toyota owns 20% of Subaru, maybe they plan to rebadge the Yaris Rally2 to a Subaru rally2?
I'm not 100% sure on this, but 1 guy claimed prodrive already has 25 subaru chassis in house to build "something", a rally2 car has some economic sense atleast.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[manthey]

Toyota owns 20% of Subaru, maybe they plan to rebadge the Yaris Rally2 to a Subaru rally2?
I'm not 100% sure on this, but 1 guy claimed prodrive already has 25 subaru chassis in house to build "something", a rally2 car has some economic sense atleast.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via TapatalkCould be interesting.

About 25 chassis,maybe the dakar Hunter T1?

[Andre Oliveira]

Prodrive chassis of what?

Mazda Rally2 looks possible.

[pantealex]

Prodrive chassis of what?

Mazda Rally2 looks possible.

Way more possible than Subaru...

Mazda2 hybrid is re-badged Yaris hybrid, 99% same car.

[HKSjbg]

Way more possible than Subaru...

Mazda2 hybrid is re-badged Yaris hybrid, 99% same car.

But not the same as the GR Yaris

[TheFlyingTuga]

But not the same as the GR Yaris

And who says Toyota is presenting a GR Yaris? I just read that they have a Yaris Rally2 car to present... could be the normal version to be different from the Rally1 car

[pantealex]

Most successful Rally2 cars are 5-doors...
(Citroen, Hyundai, Skoda and VW)

[HKSjbg]

And who says Toyota is presenting a GR Yaris? I just read that they have a Yaris Rally2 car to present... could be the normal version to be different from the Rally1 car

Oh god I hope not

[becher]

Toyota owns 20% of Subaru, maybe they plan to rebadge the Yaris Rally2 to a Subaru rally2?
I'm not 100% sure on this, but 1 guy claimed prodrive already has 25 subaru chassis in house to build "something", a rally2 car has some economic sense atleast.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

P25 comes to mind.

[skarderud]

P25 comes to mind.Yes, absolute. But isn't those already built?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.simpsonsskoda.co.uk/news/toksport-debut-the-new-skoda-fabia-rs-rally2-in-germany/#

[becher]

Yes, absolute. But isn't those already built?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

Probably not. Some maybe.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fabia RS on shakedown...
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/742194/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CkjOCYajul-/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CkjML_vpKFH/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[jcevc]

Already on ss1 some problems/crash for Mikkelsen, almost 30 cars finished with stage 1 without time for Mikkelse.

[WRC1]

now there is a time for Mikkelsen....german timing system is very poor...

[Sulland]

Times in now, some glitch I guess.

+4,1 on SS1
- 7,8 on SS2

So leads 3,7 on Grøndal after 2.

[Jarek Z]

2nd on SS1
1st on SS2
2nd on SS3
1st on SS4
Leads by 13 seconds after SS4. I see no problems for Mikkelsen so far ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hard to judge really. With Mikkelsen driving you'd expect such a lead in any Rally2 car

[jcevc]

2nd on SS1
1st on SS2
2nd on SS3
1st on SS4
Leads by 13 seconds after SS4. I see no problems for Mikkelsen so far ;)

Yes, if you start to check the times on 10:00 CET - but if you was looking at 7:30 CET and first 30 cars finished the stage without time for Mikkelsen, you can clearly ask what happened to him - especially when also on SS2 first cars arrived to finish and again no time for Mikkelsen - later they add times for him for both SS.

Anyway, I expected higher lead after 4 SS :)

[PLuto]

Yes, if you start to check the times on 10:00 CET - but if you was looking at 7:30 CET and first 30 cars finished the stage without time for Mikkelsen, you can clearly ask what happened to him - especially when also on SS2 first cars arrived to finish and again no time for Mikkelsen - later they add times for him for both SS.

Anyway, I expected higher lead after 4 SS :)

They have found (and added) his times only when he has arrived to regrouping after SS 2.

[Jarek Z]

Anyway, I expected higher lead after 4 SS :)

26 seconds after SS6. Is it good enough? ;)

[jcevc]

26 seconds after SS6. Is it good enough? ;)

Not yet :P

[Fast Eddie WRC]

He just lost 4.6s to Tom Kristensson.

[Lead]

He just lost 4.6s to Tom Kristensson.
I think he is driving the car home in first place at the moment, and not pushing to set fastest stage times. What a better start it would be for new Skoda? First official rally for car = first win. Bingo.

[RS]

Hard to judge really. With Mikkelsen driving you'd expect such a lead in any Rally2 car

True. This is the problem with running on a low profile event such as this. It's bigger news if he doesn't win than he does.

As Lead says he's probably just driving within himself at the moment to get the result. Conditions are tricky and he doesn't know the car as well as the old one.

[mknight]

What can we conclude from the first start:

- Skoda/Toksport use a lighter green color
- the car is not significantly slower than the old one
- it can drive a rally without major technical issues (looking at both Hyundai and Polo first start)

That's about it.

[RS]

What can we conclude from the first start:

- Skoda/Toksport use a lighter green color
- the car is not significantly slower than the old one
- it can drive a rally without major technical issues (looking at both Hyundai and Polo first start)

That's about it.

Yep. Now i suppose we have to wait another couple of months for a proper debut.

At least Mikkelsen and Toksport gained some experience of running the car on a real event.

[Lead]

Great stage times and overall rally from Kristensson.

[RS]

Some good footage from Lausitz here:

https://youtu.be/uh6qPPlwdFk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

A win but nothing more and that was probably all they wanted.

Skoda has plenty of orders already according to Dirtfish.

[PLuto]

A win but nothing more and that was probably all they wanted.

Skoda has plenty of orders already according to Dirtfish.

But there is black shadow on this win. Mikkelsen should be excluded for early arrival to TC 10B. And 200 euro cash penalty for not following the roadbook (missed refuel zone and tyre marking zone) is also a joke...

[mknight]

But there is black shadow on this win. Mikkelsen should be excluded for early arrival to TC 10B. And 200 euro cash penalty for not following the roadbook (missed refuel zone and tyre marking zone) is also a joke...

Since when are competitors excluded for arriving early at TC? Normally that's a penalty.

[PLuto]

Since when are competitors excluded for arriving early at TC? Normally that's a penalty.

19 mins early...

[mknight]

19 mins early...

So why should that be exclusion and not 19 min penalty?

[mknight]

In the itenary TC10B has "early check-in" (allowed) both in German and English.

Why should he be excluded again?

[PLuto]

So why should that be exclusion and not 19 min penalty?

In regional championship, maximum permitted lateness is 15 min.

[PLuto]

In the itenary TC10B has "early check-in" (allowed) both in German and English.

Why should he be excluded again?

Because in supplementary regulations and itinerary in supplementary regulations it is not allowed... And any similar change must be made by bulletin...

[mknight]

Because in supplementary regulations and itinerary in supplementary regulations it is not allowed... And any similar change must be made by bulletin...

The supplementary regulations on Sportity don't have annexes (which include itinerary).

However, the itinerary that is on Sportity has the early check in allowed. It is listed as comming from 20.10. EDIT: That itinerary says "Annex 1" on top so it looks like part of Sporting Regulations".

What specific procedures are needed for that one to be valid I have no idea, but if anything it is an organizer mess.

[mknight]

In regional championship, maximum permitted lateness is 15 min.

Where does it say that lateness is the same as "as earliness" in the regulations? Only mention is that being early does not reduce the lateness. (i.e. being early in one tc doesn't mean you can exceed lateness on next).

[PLuto]

The supplementary regulations on Sportity don't have annexes (which include itinerary).

However, the itinerary that is on Sportity has the early check in allowed. It is listed as comming from 20.10.

What specific procedures are needed for that one to be valid I have no idea, but if anything it is an organizer mess.

For sure it is organizer mess. Appendix 1 is available on "another" official noticeboard, which was working before sportity was started and was used as platform for entry list - https://www.dmsb-sport.de/25_Internationale_ADMV_Lausitz_Rallye_12538/TW_ON_Virtueller_Aushang.php

Procedures to be valid are very clear - any change in supplementary regulations or itinerary must be made by bulletin.

And in addition, in rules there is point 44.2.11 - Provided that it has been stated in the Supplementary Regulations of the rally or is indicated in a later bulletin, the organisers may authorise crews to check in before time without incurring any penalty.

For sure this was not stated in supplementary regulations or any bulletin for TC 10B...

[PLuto]

Where does it say that lateness is the same as "as earliness" in the regulations? Only mention is that being early does not reduce the lateness. (i.e. being early in one tc doesn't mean you can exceed lateness on next).

Yes, you are correct. Not excluded/retired, but he should receive huge penalty.

[mknight]

For sure it is organizer mess. Appendix 1 is available on "another" official noticeboard, which was working before sportity was started and was used as platform for entry list - https://www.dmsb-sport.de/25_Internationale_ADMV_Lausitz_Rallye_12538/TW_ON_Virtueller_Aushang.php

Procedures to be valid are very clear - any change in supplementary regulations or itinerary must be made by bulletin.

And in addition, in rules there is point 44.2.11 - Provided that it has been stated in the Supplementary Regulations of the rally or is indicated in a later bulletin, the organisers may authorise crews to check in before time without incurring any penalty.

For sure this was not stated in supplementary regulations or any bulletin for TC 10B...

This "old" itinerary has even the TCS named differently.
TC10B is Service out, while in the Annex 1 on Sportity it is Service in.

Since the one on Sportity is marked as Annex 1 it is seemingly part of Sporting Regulations and has newer date.

I don't have any idea when the Sporting Regulations are supposed to be valid and how are they distributed besides Sportity. But using the newest Annex 1 there is no breach of rules.

[PLuto]

This "old" itinerary has even the TCS named differently.
TC10B is Service out, while in the Annex 1 on Sportity it is Service in.

Since the one on Sportity is marked as Annex 1 it is seemingly part of Sporting Regulations and has newer date.

I don't have any idea when the Sporting Regulations are supposed to be valid and how are they distributed besides Sportity. But using the newest Annex 1 there is no breach of rules.

You are wrong, it is breach of rules. Any change to regulations (including appendixes) must be made by bulletin. Publication as "other documents" on sportity one day before the start is not valid, sorry.

[Lead]

But there is black shadow on this win. Mikkelsen should be excluded for early arrival to TC 10B. And 200 euro cash penalty for not following the roadbook (missed refuel zone and tyre marking zone) is also a joke...

Is that a co-drivers mistake or done on purpose? I mean can crew gain some "advantage" by doing so or its simply a inattention?

[Neige]

Been there from thursday.
The car looks amazing. Tottaly. The aerodynamics is much more improved. And the old Škoda sound is so much in the bones after all these years, that is really strange to hear new one. But it's also nice though.

The stages were really tricky as always, it's more about surviving than raw speed. There were a lot rain during reece and night before rally.

About penalties - I dont know exact situation, but whole rally organisation is quite messy. There was a huge lack of information, both for crews, both for not local spectators. Some written rules were not followed by a lot of crews and nobody cared. For some crews rules were applied, for other - not. So I'm not surprised about Andreas situation.
You could feel that is a regional rally with a lot of unwrittten rules and niuances.

[mknight]

You are wrong, it is breach of rules. Any change to regulations (including appendixes) must be made by bulletin. Publication as "other documents" on sportity one day before the start is not valid, sorry.

The intenary supplied as Appendix to the supplementary regulations was followed by the crew.

Whether they published the intenary in "correct" way is an organizer problem. I don't know if they did or not and doesn't look like you do either. The whole situation looks like you just looked at the supplementary regulations published by wrong website that wasn't updated and created a drama for no reason. (Especially the part where you start claiming they should be excluded).

Advantage gained by the crew by going early into service after the rally is finished is exactly 0.

[mknight]

Is that a co-drivers mistake or done on purpose? I mean can crew gain some "advantage" by doing so or its simply a inattention?

Going into service after rally is finished early gives no advantage.
(theoretically you could gain an advantage if say your alternator doesn't work and you are running low on battery, but then you would stop the car in the meantime anyway)

But as written in the post before they just followed latest published Itenary, so there was no mistake or intent by the crew.

Missing the refuel and tire marking in the morning was a mistake. By missing the tire marking you could theoretically get away with using more tires than allowed, but doesn't look like tire wear was a problem in this rally. Also dunno if there were any limits on number of tires at all and whether they went back to mark the tires. I agree that 200 euro is a bit ridiculous penalty though. I remember a few times in WRC people would get 10s-ish penalties for similar stuff.

[PLuto]

The intenary supplied as Appendix to the supplementary regulations was followed by the crew.

Whether they published the intenary in "correct" way is an organizer problem. I don't know if they did or not and doesn't look like you do either. The whole situation looks like you just looked at the supplementary regulations published by wrong website that wasn't updated and created a drama for no reason. (Especially the part where you start claiming they should be excluded).

Advantage gained by the crew by going early into service after the rally is finished is exactly 0.

There is no sense to continue in discussion with you...

[PLuto]

Is that a co-drivers mistake or done on purpose? I mean can crew gain some "advantage" by doing so or its simply a inattention?

For sure it is mistake of the crew.

[Steve Boyd]

The derfinitive schedule is the one shown on the time card - not the roadbook or any other published schedule. We do not have that to look at. As Pluto says above, it can only be changed by an official bulletin. It sounds like the organisers of the event need some training in the regulations!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

eWRC is still showing Mikkelsen as the rally winner with no DQ or penalties applied.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/entryinfo/74918-int-admv-lausitz-rallye-2022/3525980/

[Jarek Z]

A handful of photos from Lausitz Rallye:

https://rallypl.com/fotgalerie/foto-rajd-lausitz-2022-3/

https://rallypl.com/fotgalerie/foto-rajd-lausitz-2022-2/

https://rallypl.com/fotgalerie/foto-rajd-lausitz-2022-1/

[Jarek Z]

Look! A works Volkswagen! ;)
https://rallypl.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/21DSC_0179a.jpg

[Jarek Z]

And a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ_DGce-HTU

Interesting "rescue actions" start at 5:04 :)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.fiaerc.com/erc/news/erc/2022/mikkelsens-take-on-new-skodas-debut/

[RS]

https://www.fiaerc.com/erc/news/erc/2022/mikkelsens-take-on-new-skodas-debut/

You can see on the videos from Lausitz that where the rear end of the old car would step out and need correcting, Mikkelsen could fling the new car into a corner and hold a line more easily.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hyundai Rally2 possibly being pulled ...

https://www.iltalehti.fi/ralli/a/12a60a65-e09b-450f-8454-bf2db5b70cba

[Sulland]

Hyundai Rally2 possibly being pulled ...

https://www.iltalehti.fi/ralli/a/12a60a65-e09b-450f-8454-bf2db5b70cba

Sounds like it is a slaughterhouse at Hyundai Motorsport these days.

[Sulland]

When will they show us the Yaris Rally2?
I thought it was so finished and ready, that they would run it as a course car, or outside competition, to get "in anger" data.
But I guess it is more of a concept car they will reveal?

[Jarek Z]

Hyundai Rally2 possibly being pulled ...

https://www.iltalehti.fi/ralli/a/12a60a65-e09b-450f-8454-bf2db5b70cba

That would be very bad news. Hyundai's Rally2 car is not perfect, but Suninen's results show that it isn't that bad. Are they going to pull the plug now?

[Sal yet again]

Very short sighted if so as so many of their importers in countries unlikely ever to see a WRC round or Rally 1 car have been able to use the cars. Ok so most days its not a Fabia beater but its as good as if not better than the Fiesta.

[HKSjbg]

When will they show us the Yaris Rally2?
I thought it was so finished and ready, that they would run it as a course car, or outside competition, to get "in anger" data.
But I guess it is more of a concept car they will reveal?

I think it was just one stage on the Saturday night it will do a demo run

[lmmjvss]

What? So how does that work? Vw dont do new Polos, Msport cannot build new Fiestas, Hyundai will stop the i20s...
Is Citroen doing cars yet?
Can the teams still race these cars for a few years (until new gen?)? Where they can find parts to replace after crashes?

[Jarek Z]

If it continues like that, all Rally2 competition will soon turn into a Skoda Fabia cup...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Skoda Fabia RS Rally2 lookalike liveries are already made for DR 2.0...

https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/skoda-fabia-r5-skoda-fabia-rs-rally-2.55807/

https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/skoda-fabia-r5-2022-1-andreas-mikkelsen-torstein-eriksenint-admv-lausitz-rallye-2022.55924/

To look like the new bigger car, I change the aspect ratio to 14:10 making it seem longer, lower & wider... :)

https://i.imgur.com/aY3hFc2.jpg

[TheFlyingTuga]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/grupoportuguesderalis/permalink/469028928448525/

Here is a picture of the Yaris. Looks quite finished to me

[ictus]

here's another:
https://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Toyota-GR-Yaris-rally2-2-e1668236363129.jpeg
https://www.wrc.com/images/redaktion/Season-2022-News/WRC2/November/121122_AT-Rally2_02_f40f0_frz_1400x788.jpeg
https://www.wrc.com/images/redaktion/Season-2022-News/WRC2/November/121122_AT-Rally2_04_e1791_frz_1400x788.jpeg

[HKSjbg]

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc2/first-pictures-toyota-gr-yaris-rally2/

I don’t know if it’s the colour scheme or what but I’m really disappointed with that, it looks bloody awful. I know this will be a development car and not necessarily what the final product will look like but the AP4 version never had the same problem - maybe that’s because it was only seen in all white then in TGR colours

Edit: found a video, confirming a 3-cyl engine https://youtu.be/T-3EIsXQ1as

[Sulland]

Looks like a effective rear!

[dimviii]

video testing yaris rally2
https://twitter.com/LPaanala/status/1591365388381880321

[HKSjbg]

Immediately improved by seeing it in that test livery

[dimviii]

bigger video with yaris rally 2
https://youtu.be/q-LAmxkMaWM

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc2/first-pictures-toyota-gr-yaris-rally2/

I don’t know if it’s the colour scheme or what but I’m really disappointed with that, it looks bloody awful. I know this will be a development car and not necessarily what the final product will look like but the AP4 version never had the same problem - maybe that’s because it was only seen in all white then in TGR colours

Edit: found a video, confirming a 3-cyl engine https://youtu.be/T-3EIsXQ1as

Possibly they used that black livery to emphasise that it's still only a demo car and far from the finished TGR item.

And a pity there was no photos in tarmac-spec which would've looked pretty mean.

[RS]

Interesting going for the 3 cylinder engine! The driver seems to upshift very early and in the demo run in Japan it sounds like it's hitting the rev limiter too.

A lot of development to go yet if it won't debut until 2024. It seems Toyota will do it properly instead of rushing at least.

[Sulland]

video testing yaris rally2
https://twitter.com/LPaanala/status/1591365388381880321

Who do they use as development/test drivers for this one?

[HKSjbg]

Probably Juho Hänninen?

[Sulland]

Black/dark blue camoflages all the bumps. Trick used by many females....
White or maybe silver is a good mule color.

But the car looks like it is a good basis, and the 3 cyl GR engine, sounds a bit like the Fiesta Rally3. Odd number of cylinders always sound a bit strange. Apart from Volvo and Audi 5 cyl engines!

[Jarek Z]

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc2/first-pictures-toyota-gr-yaris-rally2/

I don’t know if it’s the colour scheme or what but I’m really disappointed with that, it looks bloody awful.

Yaris Rally1 is not a beauty, either.

[wyler]

Yaris Rally1 is not a beauty, either.

i like this rally2 way more than the rally1 actually! : )

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhV7TCvWYAA9INy?format=jpg&name=medium

[Fast Eddie WRC]

TGR vid
https://twitter.com/TGR_WRC/status/1591413179224977408?s=20&t=AXN6VRlRHH-qN8sMWDtmCw

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/toyota-reveals-rally2-concept-car-at-rally-japan-/10398660/

[ictus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-LAmxkMaWM
gravel test video od the yaris rally2

[Sal yet again]

Just glad the car has surfaced after all the talk and as said above seeing it in factory test livery gives hope it will see the light of day on a stage after all!

[Jarek Z]

Bad Boys in Japan ;)
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=583666086893017&set=a.543573237568969

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Having the boss like it is a good sign...
https://www.rallye-magazin.de/fileadmin/news-bilder/2019/Toyota-Yaris-Rally2-2.jpg

[becher]

I find the Rally2 quite ugly, which is surprising considering how good the roadcar, Rally1 (and the AP4 version) look. Maybe it is the black paintjob.

[manthey]

I find the Rally2 quite ugly, which is surprising considering how good the roadcar, Rally1 (and the AP4 version) look. Maybe it is the black paintjob.Seems very similar to Rally1&road to me.
We need to see in tarmac spec and another colour

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Seems very similar to Rally1&road to me.
We need to see in tarmac spec and another colourThe another colour would be TGR corporate livery

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

[becher]

Seems very similar to Rally1&road to me.
We need to see in tarmac spec and another colour

Yeah, well maybe its just the colour for me.

[Danny0405]

Seems very similar to Rally1&road to me.
We need to see in tarmac spec and another colour

Talking about this, one important point for Toyota is to avoid the mistake made by VW of developing the Rally2 car to close from the Rally1 one.
VW car is a still a good one but its optimized margin is too small to address the Rally2 market where you’ve both drivers close from Rally1 level and amateur drivers.
With also the fires at the beginning that made a bad PR, it’s one of the reason of VW relative failure in Rally2 (and not the level of the car itself)

[manthey]

Talking about this, one important point for Toyota is to avoid the mistake made by VW of developing the Rally2 car to close from the Rally1 one.
VW car is a still a good one but its optimized margin is too small to address the Rally2 market where you’ve both drivers close from Rally1 level and amateur drivers.
With also the fires at the beginning that made a bad PR, it’s one of the reason of VW relative failure in Rally2 (and not the level of the car itself)Yes good point, the same with I20N. The bulk of the performance in a tight range.

Polo (and C3) experienced a good development and was chosen by PRO driver category (on tarmac)

[skarderud]

Yes good point, the same with I20N. The bulk of the performance in a tight range.

Polo (and C3) experienced a good development and was chosen by PRO driver category (on tarmac)A Polo won the Norwegian championship this year (Larsen/Eriksen) against drivers and cars like Fabia (Brynhildsen, Grøndal and Aasen) and Polo (Veiby)
Grøndal did 1/2 season in a Fiesta mk2, but that didn't worked and swapped to Fabia.

I really hope M-sport brings out a new, good Rally2 car soon, can they survive without?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

Talking about this, one important point for Toyota is to avoid the mistake made by VW of developing the Rally2 car to close from the Rally1 one.
VW car is a still a good one but its optimized margin is too small to address the Rally2 market where you’ve both drivers close from Rally1 level and amateur drivers.
With also the fires at the beginning that made a bad PR, it’s one of the reason of VW relative failure in Rally2 (and not the level of the car itself)

Failure? Where did they fail? The car was great apart from the fire problems at the beginning. It's just that they never had a factory supported WRC2 team so it never challenged for titles.

[Danny0405]

Failure? Where did they fail? The car was great apart from the fire problems at the beginning. It's just that they never had a factory supported WRC2 team so it never challenged for titles.

I’m talking about the commercial part, not the sport part because as I said, it is still a good car.
But the optimized margin is too low compared with the Skoda to address to amateur drivers whereas this car was supposed to be the next big thing (and in the end, it never overtook the old Fabia evo).

And I talked about a relative failure because clearly, in terms of sales, they didn’t do really much better than Hyundai, Citroen and Ford and were dominated by Skoda that they were supposed to subtitute (and in the end, it is Skoda which is following his development with the new RS).

[dimviii]

I’m talking about the commercial part, not the sport part because as I said, it is still a good car.
But the optimized margin is too low compared with the Skoda to address to amateur drivers whereas this car was supposed to be the next big thing (and in the end, it never overtook the old Fabia evo).

And I talked about a relative failure because clearly, in terms of sales, they didn’t do really much better than Hyundai, Citroen and Ford and were dominated by Skoda that they were supposed to subtitute (and in the end, it is Skoda which is following his development with the new RS).

how many years polo was for sale vs fabia?

[Sulland]

Many still prefers the Fabia R5 over the Evo. It is easier to set up, and has a wider sweetspot.
The Fiesta Rally2 is hard to get a good setup for loose surfaces, it still gets smashed by the R5 with similar quality drivers.
A few get the new Fiesta to work for them, PG Andersson is one of them.

The Polo have been superb for good drivers that have tested enough, and know how to set it up for their taste.
Many still prefer the Polo over the Fabia Evo.

Lets see if Skoda managed to surpass the Polo with the Fabia RS.

[manthey]

Many still prefers the Fabia R5 over the Evo. It is easier to set up, and has a wider sweetspot.
The Fiesta Rally2 is hard to get a good setup for loose surfaces, it still gets smashed by the R5 with similar quality drivers.
A few get the new Fiesta to work for them, PG Andersson is one of them.

The Polo have been superb for good drivers that have tested enough, and know how to set it up for their taste.
Many still prefer the Polo over the Fabia Evo.

Lets see if Skoda managed to surpass the Polo with the Fabia RS.

Interesting, I read about Polo’s quality as you reported

[RS]

Failure? Where did they fail? The car was great apart from the fire problems at the beginning. It's just that they never had a factory supported WRC2 team so it never challenged for titles.

And the collapsing suspension. But speed wise there was never a problem with this car.

I would point out though that Kajto challenged for this year’s WRC2 title being outside of a factory supported team.

[mknight]

Katjo "challenged" by avoiding competition though.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I really hope M-sport brings out a new, good Rally2 car soon, can they survive without?



According to their announcement today the Fiesta is to soldier on for the foreseeable future, with M-Sport stockpiling Fiesta shells and parts as the road car stops production in 2023.

[wyler]

According to their announcement today the Fiesta is to soldier on for the foreseeable future, with M-Sport stockpiling Fiesta shells and parts as the road car stops production in 2023.

they also said development is coming through 23 to all lower tier cars (rally2/3/4)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Mikkelsen was testing the Fabia RS in Croatia today...

https://instagram.com/stories/skodamotorsport/2972726804234657265?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

[Andre Oliveira]

M-Sport sold one Fiesta Rally2 to Uganda (Yasin Nasser).

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhsqGjRWAAA0VTn?format=jpg&name=medium

[mknight]

Mikkelsen was testing the Fabia RS in Croatia today...

https://instagram.com/stories/skodamotorsport/2972726804234657265?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

Testing vid is here:

https://youtu.be/mE-KyyPSSXI

[Jarek Z]

Did you see that? Istanbul Rally last week - 14 Ford Fiestas in top 20!
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/80214-istanbul-rallisi-2022/

[manthey]

Testing vid is here:

https://youtu.be/mE-KyyPSSXI

Very slippery and smoking exhaust

[pantealex]

Mikkelsen was testing the Fabia RS in Croatia today...



and Lindholm Thursday and/or Friday

[RS]

and Lindholm Thursday and/or Friday

And Pajari apparantely. I guess those three will be the Skoda backed drivers in Toksport next year.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Emil Lindholm Fabia RS walkaround:

https://youtu.be/GtIkI6Xofl8

https://www.skoda-motorsport.com/en/skoda-fabia-rs-rally2-all-the-essentials-in-60-seconds/

[Jarek Z]

Emil Lindholm Fabia RS walkaround:

https://youtu.be/GtIkI6Xofl8

Did you see the comments section? Chris Ingram likes it already! :)

[manthey]

Emil Lindholm Fabia RS walkaround:

https://youtu.be/GtIkI6Xofl8

https://www.skoda-motorsport.com/en/skoda-fabia-rs-rally2-all-the-essentials-in-60-seconds/Why skoda never produced a Fabia Rally road version like Yaris GR...

[mknight]

Well I wonder how many we will see early next year.
Toksport would want at least 4 basically immediately. Kopecky also, but Czech championship starts later.

Regarding speed I don't doubt it will be fast on Finland, Sweden, Estonia type of roads and likely also on Catalunya type of roads

But especially at start I am not so sure it will be that great on Croatia/CZ roads or even slippery rallies.

After all the current Fabia has been constantly developed for ages. It also doesn't seem possible to do massive improvements using Rally2 rules (original Fabia R5 is for example not far behind latest EVO or new i20, Polo which hasn't been developed for 3? years is still up there, etc.).

[Jarek Z]

Why skoda never produced a Fabia Rally road version like Yaris GR...

You can buy Skoda Fabia Monte Carlo ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeNfGTyKzdw

[manthey]

But especially at start I am not so sure it will be that great on Croatia/CZ roads or even slippery rallies.

After all the current Fabia has been constantly developed for ages. It also doesn't seem possible to do massive improvements using Rally2 rules (original Fabia R5 is for example not far behind latest EVO or new i20, Polo which hasn't been developed for 3? years is still up there, etc.).

Judging from the latest rainy video test ?
I assume there will be developments on suspensions based on the previous (actual) Fabia

[mknight]

Judging by the car having much longer wheelbase (think it now is the Rally2 with the longest wheelbase of them all.

So naturally it should be slower to react than the current one.