Rally2 (ex-R5) News

[WRCKE]

Is Simpson's competition run by his own firm or do they use an outside preparer?

It would be great if he could run a young brit in an ERC programme as well as himself.
It is his own team

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Anyone think Elfyn Evans will be in the upgraded Fiesta R5, possibly in WRC2 ... Proven driver showing how quick the new car is and taking on the Skoda's ?

[Andre Oliveira]

If i am Mr Wilson, bet on Quentin Gilbert to that drive, assuming that Kajto will do WRC2 anyway.

[dodge33cymru]

If it's Gilbert that (finally) won WRC3 this year, he's got a deal with Citroen for next year. I don't have massive hopes for his future regardless.

Either way, would be good to see that upgraded R5 do a few ERC events in a pro's hands.

[Simmi]

Not sure that M-Sport would bother sending the 'works' R5 to the ERC in an official capacity? Much easier for them to dovetail it with their WRC service setup.

That said it would be nice if they put Elfyn to work next year at some key events. Circuit of Ireland for example would be a great one as it ticks a lot of boxes. Plenty of customers across the 3 series combined. Citroen should also consider putting Meeke out there.

[Rally Power]

Not sure that M-Sport would bother sending the 'works' R5 to the ERC in an official capacity?


Sometimes 'works' status can be misleading. This year Kajto was much more a works supported driver than Breen!
Wilson can count on MSport Poland to have his new R5 officially competing at ERC.

[vino_93]

If i am Mr Wilson, bet on Quentin Gilbert to that drive, assuming that Kajto will do WRC2 anyway.

Gilbert has a contract with Citroën for 2016, he won't drive for M-Sport.

[Rally Power]

A nice 360 video from Skoda Italy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3Hqziz5z7E&feature=youtu.be&a=

[liposh]

My laptop is old, with bad RAM so these streams are bad for him, so I just tried to download the 360° video using some youtube downloader and the final video is very funny (but interesting) :D

[Andre Oliveira]

Toni Gardemeister just receive the chassis #100 of Fabia S2000 and #38 of Fabia R5

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11221706_10207361173459450_3508780900074488862_n.j pg?oh=7606fe9487c6e02b4b509221af20757f&oe=56F7EBDA
https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12308675_10207361173819459_7282863093198135871_n.j pg?oh=4d3cda6f1b7ed04fe18aa39360d655f9&oe=56DB0700
https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12345556_10207361174539477_449012313968840371_n.jp g?oh=0ee0e5388f19f46516cc793c482700d2&oe=56E51870

[liposh]

Hmm, Fabia S2000 Nr. 100. Nice, she (Fabia) finally achieved this milestone. Having a little bit nostalgic mood I think it is time for small celebration. Cheers to Fabia S2000.

[nafpaktos]

100 skoda s2k??i had the belief that skoda had built about the half number.i didint know they support so many customers,i was thinking only msport do this. I am really consused.i know that a lot of people was asking for the s2k and skoda was not prepared for that,i also know that they kept this in mind when they started the r5 program in order to be able to support a lot of customers.

PS i dont find the history of the 100th s2k inthe ewrc.the car is new?how is that possible.

[Hartusvuori]

I am not 100% sure, but I believe #100 is a rebuild of an older chassis. However, I asked this from Garde in FB and he replied this is a brand new.

In eWRC database there are other examples of Fabia S2000s given a new chassis number.

[Andre Oliveira]

Toni Gardemeister 100

https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/12308675_10207361173819459_7282863093198135871_n.j pg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=e610b91cf9e3d64fcb44243d23681652&oe=56F46C0F

[Mirek]

I am not 100% sure, but I believe #100 is a rebuild of an older chassis. However, I asked this from Garde in FB and he replied this is a brand new.

In eWRC database there are other examples of Fabia S2000s given a new chassis number.

They had quite a lot of bodyshells prepared in advance and something tells me that they built those few more missing to achieve 100 just for the sake of the achievement :) Anyway it's good when some are available to rebuild cars after massive crashes.

[Mirek]

100 skoda s2k??i had the belief that skoda had built about the half number.i didint know they support so many customers,i was thinking only msport do this. I am really consused.i know that a lot of people was asking for the s2k and skoda was not prepared for that,i also know that they kept this in mind when they started the r5 program in order to be able to support a lot of customers.

PS i dont find the history of the 100th s2k inthe ewrc.the car is new?how is that possible.

Here in CZ alone I estimate the number of Fabias S2000 which went through private hands to around 20.

[Ucci]

Here in CZ alone I estimate the number of Fabias S2000 which went through private hands to around 20.

Rich country......

[Mirek]

If You measure that by number of S2000 cars... I personally don't. To me it tells more that I get less than 1/2 salary than my German colleagues who do exactly same job for the same global automotive company.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Polish driver Hubert Ptaszek be present in 7 WRC2 rallies in 2016. Starting in Monte-Carlo and with Fabia R5.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVYPKuxWwAACFoY.jpg:large

[Jarek Z]

Polish driver Hubert Ptaszek be present in 7 WRC2 rallies in 2016. Starting in Monte-Carlo and with Fabia R5.


What a waste of money!

[liposh]

Jarek Z: Now you know the feeling we (Czechs) have got with "Superfast ERC megastar" Antonin Tlustak :D At least you can hope Ptaszek is young and he can improve. (at least a little bit) Tlustak will never improve. ...but they can spent their money as they want.

[tommeke_B]

What a waste of money!

Without people wasting their money our favourite sport wouldn't exist... :)

[Jarek Z]

Jarek Z: Now you know the feeling we (Czechs) have got with "Superfast ERC megastar" Antonin Tlustak :D At least you can hope Ptaszek is young and he can improve. (at least a little bit) Tlustak will never improve.

I don't know who is better of those two. Maybe Tlustak, because he doesn't crash... and Ptaszek... well...

http://www.ewrc-results.com/quickp/19132_ctsmazsweaaa0o4.jpg

[Walach]

Jarek Z: Now you know the feeling we (Czechs) have got with "Superfast ERC megastar" Antonin Tlustak :D At least you can hope Ptaszek is young and he can improve. (at least a little bit) Tlustak will never improve. ...but they can spent their money as they want.
Yeah...and imagine that feeling we (Czechs) have while reading your embarrassing posts here on motorsportforums.com.

[liposh]

I know you overreacted a little bit, because the autumn is a way too long with lot of rain showers etc., but that´s OK. You don´t have to apologize. I like You. We are good ;)

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVxs-jYXIAAANLq.jpg

[EightGear]

Looks very big.

[MartijnS]

And ugly.

[dodge33cymru]

Something weird looking about it, it looks like a toy - might just be the paint scheme on it.

Either way, looking forward to seeing it on stages, nice to have it officially confirmed at last.

Your move Opel!

[Jarek Z]

Is it ready? It looks like a toy indeed.

https://www.facebook.com/rallyemag/photos/a.68262979972.93990.68262729972/10153836361214973/?type=3
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10208249087734272&set=pcb.10208249091974378&type=3
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10208249088134282&set=pcb.10208249091974378&type=3

[EightGear]

I think its a dummy.

[Mirek]

Yes, it is. The wing looks very strange and ugly.

[TheFlyingTuga]

I think the wing it's just for show. I know that in R5 they just can use a two point fixage wing, but I don't know if it can be this big. And If any other manufacter don't use one like it, it's because they can't. The rest of the body seems similar in everyway to the WRC one... and they presebted a car in gravel specs (faceplam)

[RICARDO75]

With a 3-door version as well achieved and sport look, the excuse to approve the 5 door version for the WRC due to a late production, it was very strange, given that the new car would only compete in 2016.
Launch a car that will only compete for 2016, I think it was a shot in the foot and unfortunately, the R5 had to be with the same base.

[French_Paulo]

No picture of the back ?

[dodge33cymru]

If you find Colin Clark's Periscope there's an excellent 360 of both cars

[dimviii]

BX4 TC just lost the title of ugliest rally car of century.

[Mirek]

No, it didn't... as it's already 21st :D

[TheFlyingTuga]

BX4 TC just lost the title of ugliest rally car of century.

I think it's funny, because they just changed the wing and this car looks awfull compared to the WRC that it's lovely!

[Allyc85]

I think its a dummy.

Pretty sure I read earlier that the car seen today is just a concept.

[Rally Power]

Congrats to Hyundai! 5th manu into R5. Great news for national rally champs.

[RS]

Hopefully we'll see some testing videos for the Hyundai R5 soon. Development in the early part of 2016, homologation in the middle of the year. I wonder whether it's enough?

[nafpaktos]

From what we have already seen from skoda no.

[Red bull]

Sorry I am off topic but I would like to know if VW factory team have ever built a group N or R4 rally car,thanks.

[janvanvurpa]

And ugly.

Wait. That is ugly and all these current cars with ridiculous wing extensions sticking out for wide track and 300mm travel that all look the same except headlights are not ugly?

I'm confused...I think they all remind me of this:
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRsCNAZdx9tjFwrDc4UQ1cW5aNkTv1cV OjDDJWF5LKxbZBr6yF-8Q

Except more stickers.:uhoh:

[Mirek]

Sorry I am off topic but I would like to know if VW factory team have ever built a group N or R4 rally car,thanks.

In recent history not. They only built RRC prototype which was needed for WRC homologation.

[Red bull]

Thank you so much,really appreciated.

[nafpaktos]

In recent history not. They only built RRC prototype which was needed for WRC homologation.

Needed????why?

[dodge33cymru]

Part of their WRC homologation process for a couple of years, there had to be an RRC version - it was originally intended as the S2000 replacement before R5 came along to fix it, IIRC.

[mousti]

This week Cherain, Basso and Kajto have tested each a full day with the Fiesta R5 Evo 2

[tommeke_B]

This week Cherain, Basso and Kajto have tested each a full day with the Fiesta R5 Evo 2

http://www.autonews-magazine.com/blog/?p=44169 Some article (in French). Cherain, who drove a DS3 R5 the last season, and a Fiesta R5 the year before, said he thinks the new Fiesta R5 will quickly prove to be superior to the PSA R5's. Cherain tested some 170kms. His program for next year should be revealed in January, nothing is officially known yet. It's no secret that Cherain would like to compete in ERC. :)

[Andre Oliveira]

Ricardo Moura said to RTP Açores that want do some WRC or ERC events in 2016 out portuguese territory.

[PLuto]

Ricardo Moura said to RTP Açores that want do some WRC or ERC events in 2016 out portuguese territory.

I think that Ricardo is saying it every year...

[Andre Oliveira]

Not with this relevance. The portuguese championship finished with many many ghosts. He lost the tittle cause dust in one rally and and a puncture of Meireles in last round. Many believe on team tactics by Sports and You team. So, maybe this time is for real. I hope at least that he goes to Canarias like some years ago.

[polo10]

The gosts were only in some minds,a puncture is a puncture, and the question about the dust is ridiculous...The problem with Ricardo is that everytime that he loses he find some excuses...Hope he can get is international program,something that he is trying every year


Not with this relevance. The portuguese championship finished with many many ghosts. He lost the tittle cause dust in one rally and and a puncture of Meireles in last round. Many believe on team tactics by Sports and You team. So, maybe this time is for real. I hope at least that he goes to Canarias like some years ago.

[br21]

Fiesta R5 phase2 looks to be really big improvement, mostly in engine area. Car is really faster!
Citroen plans to do updates in March, new cooling package (radiator, intercooler), some small changes in engine (rocker arms, etc), also different power steering.

[Andre Oliveira]

polo10 i agree. I only write what happen, not my opinion.

Yes, a friend told me that the "new" Fiesta is a canon ball

[Sulland]

This week Cherain, Basso and Kajto have tested each a full day with the Fiesta R5 Evo 2

I must have missed Evo 1, what and when was that?

So if I had an original Fiesta R5 and wanted to update to the latest spec, how much would that cost me?

[dimviii]

nice drive this guy.Whos is he?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoiYLbdl6QI

[Reis Eduardo]

I think that Ricardo is saying it every year...

Moura said an international program has never been a priority as it came to be now.
The events of the last Portuguese championship, can they have led to this change of priotidades.

[itix]

Fiesta R5 phase2 looks to be really big improvement, mostly in engine area. Car is really faster!
Citroen plans to do updates in March, new cooling package (radiator, intercooler), some small changes in engine (rocker arms, etc), also different power steering.
How can PSA upgrade? Are there homologation jokers that can be used? I thought the homologation was locked for three years...

[Zeakiwi]

Depends if PSA have homologation jokers left to use. Fiesta R5 upgrade used jokers.
http://rally.ie/index.php/stories/151208-101256

[br21]

yes, PSA can do upgrades, now working on them.
from 1st january in Fiesta only engine upgrade, cost not much more than normal engine rebuild.

[tommeke_B]

Pitty PSA isn't working on their gearbox/transmission... It breaks down already every second event, let's add some more power...

[Rally Power]

Moura said an international program has never been a priority as it came to be now.
The events of the last Portuguese championship, can they have led to this change of priotidades.

Hope this could mean Adruzilo in CNR on ARC's Fiesta (the one they're rebuilding after Moura crash in Madeira)!

[br21]

Pitty PSA isn't working on their gearbox/transmission... It breaks down already every second event, let's add some more power...

sorry, forgot about it, they say they also work on transmission upgrade, mostly front diff. Also last week they tested new shimming of Ohlins dampers.

[tommeke_B]

sorry, forgot about it, they say they also work on transmission upgrade, mostly front diff. Also last week they tested new shimming of Ohlins dampers.

Also hopefully no more manufacturing flaws with the cardan going to the rear diff, as it has broken 2x with a DS3 R5 you should know quite well. ;)

[Reis Eduardo]

Hope this could mean Adruzilo in CNR on ARC's Fiesta (the one they're rebuilding after Moura crash in Madeira)!


It is a quite possible scenario ;)

[Hartusvuori]

Fabia R5 chassis 32 to Hannu's Rally Team (FIN)

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfl1/v/t1.0-9/12246598_596090643862021_3011699891901736435_n.jpg ?oh=f438ad8dcdf0957e0e727c9e29b378b0&oe=56F17521


Confirmed now that Hannu's Rally Team's Fabia R5 will be used in FRC by Hannu's son, Mikko Lehessaari.

[rp]

Confirmed now that Hannu's Rally Team's Fabia R5 will be used in FRC by Hannu's son, Mikko Lehessaari.

What a disappointment, bu not a surprise. Was hoping that some young and potential Finnish driver would drive it!

Mikko has a rich dad and of course it´s good for him to have some hobby...

[nafpaktos]

nice drive this guy.Whos is he?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoiYLbdl6QI
i would ask how old is he.

[tommeke_B]

i would ask how old is he.

Nicolas Ciamin, 17 years old. https://www.facebook.com/Nicolas-Ciamin-1458049694475327/

[Andre Oliveira]

Norwish team RS Motorsport with Selmer in Rally Sweden and Frank Tore Larsen in @LVRally @RallyEstonia and @SATARallyAcores

Ford Fiesta R5 both

Source: http://www.rohneselmer.no/RS-motorsport.aspx

[Jack4688`]

Norwish? :D

Was that a mistake or is it a Norwegian-Swedish alliance?

[Sulland]

A typo I think.
Both Larsen and Selmer are Norwegian.
And Driver Selmer is the chairman of the board of RøhneSelmer!

[Rally Power]

A 208T16 for Chazel rally rent team. They call it the new 2016 R5 version...no looks changes?

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWhkPHlWoAAMSpl.jpg

https://twitter.com/peugeotsport

[Simmi]

They call it the new 2016 R5 version...no looks changes?

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWhkPHlWoAAMSpl.jpg

It looks like it's just an artist's impression to show off the livery. That's not actually a real car so no way to conclude what the 2016 spec is.

[Simmi]

A distinct lack of ERC in the Peugeot Academy plans next year. Moves into WRC but looks very scaled back.

http://www.peugeot-sport.com/en/2016-peugeot-rally-academy-rings-changes/

The end of Peugeot works team in the ERC?

[WUff1]

A distinct lack of ERC in the Peugeot Academy plans next year. Moves into WRC but looks very scaled back.

http://www.peugeot-sport.com/en/2016-peugeot-rally-academy-rings-changes/

The end of Peugeot works team in the ERC?

According to Rallye Magazine yes, Peugeot Rally Academy leaving ERC for WRC2: http://www.rallye-magazin.de/int/nachrichten/artikel/d/2015/12/20/peugeot-rally-academy-verlaesst-rallye-em/

On the other hand Breen may return to some few ERC runs with Abu Dhabi Total WRT.

[br21]

It looks like it's just an artist's impression to show off the livery. That's not actually a real car so no way to conclude what the 2016 spec is.

There is nothing like 2016 version of 208 or DS3. Maybe some newly homologated parts will be available from March, so then we will exactly know what, som other parts in mid of the year. Improved cooling expected, so maybe slight changes in look of front of the car.

[PLuto]

According to Rallye Magazine yes, Peugeot Rally Academy leaving ERC for WRC2: http://www.rallye-magazin.de/int/nachrichten/artikel/d/2015/12/20/peugeot-rally-academy-verlaesst-rallye-em/

On the other hand Breen may return to some few ERC runs with Abu Dhabi Total WRT.

Yes, it is officially confirmed, Peugeot Rally Academy is switching to WRC2.

[Simmi]

If that is what the actual translation says then the potential of a few ERC rounds for Breen is interesting. Wasn't expecting that - but obviously CoI springs to mind.

[RS]

I suppose Peugeot UK put some money in to Breen's ERC programme, i wonder whether they could continue with Chris Ingram?

[WUff1]

For Breen I also think of Ypres besides CoI

[CWJ]

i wonder whether they could continue with Chris Ingram?

Possibly chance for a brand change?

[RS]

Possibly chance for a brand change?

Peugeot R5 to WRC, Citroen R5 to ERC?

[Jarek Z]

According to Rallye Magazine yes, Peugeot Rally Academy leaving ERC for WRC2: http://www.rallye-magazin.de/int/nachrichten/artikel/d/2015/12/20/peugeot-rally-academy-verlaesst-rallye-em/


Anybody knows why they are leaving ERC? Is it so, that after being humiliated by Lappi and Skoda in 2014 and then by Kajto and Ford in 2015, Peugeot are trying to avoid another humiliation? ;)

[WUff1]

Anybody knows why they are leaving ERC? Is it so, that after being humiliated by Lappi and Skoda in 2014 and then by Kajto and Ford in 2015, Peugeot are trying to avoid another humiliation? ;)

That´s what I thought, and also they were the only works team left in ERC.

[rallyfiend]

Anybody knows why they are leaving ERC? Is it so, that after being humiliated by Lappi and Skoda in 2014 and then by Kajto and Ford in 2015, Peugeot are trying to avoid another humiliation? ;)

You think that car is going to be any less humiliated on the world championship stages against a better field of drivers?!?

[dodge33cymru]

Must have arrived at the same conclusions that Skoda did. With no competition, they can only lose (like this year).

Meanwhile, they can still choose a few select events if they want to, and they won't be competing with a works team against their own customers.

Plus, a wider problem, all the driving talent wants to be doing WRC events for fear of not being picked up by the top crews. If you want your pick of the junior drivers, you might need to be in ERC.

But surely young drivers will go anywhere they're paid to, I hear you cry.

Well, it might be that PSA are playing the same B Team role that Skoda seem to be doing for VW.

And who needs good young drivers for 2017 onwards? PSA.

Might be a good chance to sign someone they have an eye on in the future (Berkvist?) and give them seven rounds in Europe, including two rallies in France.

[Jarek Z]

You think that car is going to be any less humiliated on the world championship stages against a better field of drivers?!?

No, but I think that in WRC it will be easier to hide mistakes and bad results.

[RS]

No, but I think that in WRC it will be easier to hide mistakes and bad results.

Haha, I hadn't thought of that.. the coverage is so poor that nobody will notice if they are shit.

[Jarek Z]

Haha, I hadn't thought of that.. the coverage is so poor that nobody will notice if they are shit.

Yes, plus the fact that in WRC2 you can finish 4 minutes behind the winner (which is a difference of at least two classes) and still collect points for 2nd place. It will still look good in the standings.

[PLuto]

Must have arrived at the same conclusions that Skoda did. With no competition, they can only lose (like this year).

Meanwhile, they can still choose a few select events if they want to, and they won't be competing with a works team against their own customers.

Plus, a wider problem, all the driving talent wants to be doing WRC events for fear of not being picked up by the top crews. If you want your pick of the junior drivers, you might need to be in ERC.

But surely young drivers will go anywhere they're paid to, I hear you cry.

Well, it might be that PSA are playing the same B Team role that Skoda seem to be doing for VW.

And who needs good young drivers for 2017 onwards? PSA.

Might be a good chance to sign someone they have an eye on in the future (Berkvist?) and give them seven rounds in Europe, including two rallies in France.

Nice thoughts. But Peugeot Rally Academy will do only 5 rounds for Suarez (WRC2) and only 3 rounds for Berfa (WRC3). I dont think it is the best potential to have works drivers from them for 2017...

[dodge33cymru]

Oh, wow, that's it? Guess PRA is over then and that's the cheapest way to fulfill some promises, guessing one of Suarez's rounds will be Spain?

Sorry, hadn't seen the PR.

[EightGear]

Oh, wow, that's it? Guess PRA is over then and that's the cheapest way to fulfill some promises, guessing one of Suarez's rounds will be Spain?

Sorry, hadn't seen the PR.
Monte, Portugal, Italy, Germany and Corsica.

So no Spain, at least not funded by Peugeot.

[Simmi]

Monte, Portugal, Italy, Germany and Corsica.

So no Spain, at least not funded by Peugeot.

Actually yeah that makes sense. If he gets Spain funded by Peugeot Espana like this year then at least he can complete a full WRC2 programme.

[mousti]

BMA finally got their 2 new Fabia R5.

http://www.rallycarsforsale.net/ads/2-x-skoda-fabia-r5-full-spec/

[skarderud]

Some rumours :
The first fiesta R5 evo (private) goes to norway, or 2 actually :)

[dodge33cymru]

Are they new ones or upgrades to existing ones?

[tommeke_B]

Also 2 Fabia R5's for rent at BMA. http://www.bma-autosport.com/

[skarderud]

Are they new ones or upgrades to existing ones?
New ones.

[Andre Oliveira]

Team FJ (F)

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1917003_508987629283376_3342661953431034894_n.jpg? oh=fb949645ea165e27ba0fe85895bab282&oe=57000614

[Rally Power]

Yep, they're not R5's, but it's nice to know that MRF S2000 Fabias are coming to Portugal.
Still lots of power in them!
https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xla1/v/t1.0-9/6597_702643666537429_9118093742826416008_n.jpg?oh= d5b2bbce6498cdeaafde3d4d94dfa675&oe=5744703F
https://www.facebook.com/manuelcastrosport/?fref=photo

[dodge33cymru]

And they sound much, much better.....

[Andre Oliveira]

2 cars and half on conteiner :) damaged cage too.

[manthey]

Some rumours :
The first fiesta R5 evo (private) goes to norway, or 2 actually :)

RohnseSelmer RS Motorsport?

[Andre Oliveira]

Brynildsen has his chassis 126 to sell, maybe to him? Maybe Adapta?

[skarderud]

Adapta, Østberg doing some National rounds, the other for rent. Heard some names, both H Solberg, grøndal and Brynhildsen is mentioned.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Belgian media - Freddy Loix / SKODA BEnl part company with BMA. New Fabia R5 to be prepped by 2C Competition ...

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.autonews-magazine.com/blog/%3Fp%3D44247&edit-text=

[Andre Oliveira]

Ricardo Teodósio, portuguese showman wants 10.000€ to achieve the budget to get an R5. Crowdfunding link: http://ppl.com.pt/pt/prj/ricardo-teodosio-ralis-r5

[Andre Oliveira]

Veiby on entries to Finnskog with Fabia R5

[Andre Oliveira]

Mads Østberg with Adapta Fiesta R5 on next rally Hadeland (29 january)

[TWRC]

Korda Racing in Hungary (former Subaru WRC specialist, now they're mostly into rallyraid) has bought a Fabia R5 as well. They want to rent it out to WRC2 / ERC drivers and to the Hungarian Championship. Also, János Puskádi is rumored to have bought one as well to replace his Fabia S2000.

[Andre Oliveira]

Max Rendina bought chassis 123 from Oreca, ex Camilli (great poster ;) )

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYdsz4bWEAEz-Op.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYdsz4QWkAEKllv.jpg

[Sulland]

Arnt Gustav Olsen is also swapping out his DS3 for a Fiesta Evo.
http://www.ewrc-results.com/carinfo.php?cid=47&car=1414&t=Ford-Fiesta-R5

[Andre Oliveira]

Sold DS to Finland

[TWRC]

There's a new evolution pop-off valve, which according to Peugeot Sport, has improved stability and precision in terms of opening pressure, and is also less prone to the effects of heat. If anyone's interested, the Peugeot Sport document is here (http://www.peugeotsport-store.com/cms/web/upload/documentation/530/5693c549ade2e.pdf).

[br21]

only newly homologated update for Fiesta is engine, in March they hope to homologate suspension changes

[RS]

When will Skoda be allowed to make homologation changes to the Fabia?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Evans R5 Evo

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYmdzxWWsAAyJG-.png:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYwUpPbWYAAJSFQ.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYwUpPdWAAAtWd8.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

R5 - Choose your weapon !

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYwgCvQWsAA8Nhu.jpg:large

[Zeakiwi]

Grondal testing in Norway.
https://youtu.be/JeLKgcUL7nc

[Sulland]

The new Fiesta Evos are struggeling a bit in minus 10, with engine cuts in corners.
lets see if they can fix it in the next service breake.

could be a SW glitch in the evo kit.

[itix]

R5 - Choose your weapon !

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYwgCvQWsAA8Nhu.jpg:large
208... Mmmmmm :)

[skarderud]

The new Fiesta Evos are struggeling a bit in minus 10, with engine cuts in corners.
lets see if they can fix it in the next service breake.

could be a SW glitch in the evo kit.
As i understand it, it was a new software upgrade on the New evo upgrade they hadn't tested, as they got it on thursday night. It has to be ok before sweden, its 2 more rallies here to test this before sweden, luckily.

[Sulland]

Have MSport gotten a SW fix to mend the engine "cheating" issues mid corner for the Evo yet?

[Andre Oliveira]

4 people, 4 days and pufff a new Ford Fiesta R5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y5TuaQFI1g

[RS]

Anyone know if they changed the gearing on the new Fiesta as well as the engine?

[Mirek]

No, they didn't.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Double Trouble!

The two new Combilift Ford Fiesta R5s have arrived! 2016 will be another very busy year for Sam and Josh Moffett as they attack both the Irish Tarmac Rally Championship and MSA British Rally Championship!

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12592200_729076417192055_3463748775459329235_n.jpg ?oh=bceb1079ccaf7a01cc123df84dfca27a&oe=572B4DBC

[Jarek Z]

Hyundai i20 R5 is being tested in France now. Kevin Abbring is the test driver. Hyundai Motorsport say they will start offering this car to customers at the end of this summer.
http://www.motorsportforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1079031

[AL14]

Hyundai i20 R5 is being tested in France now. Kevin Abbring is the test driver. Hyundai Motorsport say they will start offering this car to customers at the end of this summer.
http://www.motorsportforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1079031
Isn't this Summer too early? Or is it a proper timing for testing and have a reliable and performing car?

[Jarek Z]

Isn't this Summer too early? Or is it a proper timing for testing and have a reliable and performing car?

Too early? The initial plan was to present the car on Ypres Rally in June.

[Mirek]

If they started testing now than it is too early. It's crazy risky to homologate the car after just six months of testing - unless, of course, they haven't started with testing a long time a go and just kept it secret.

[AL14]

Too early? The initial plan was to present the car on Ypres Rally in June.

I was referring to the test schedule not to the timing from the first announcement to the homologation. :)


If they started testing now than it is too early. It's crazy risky to homologate the car after just six months of testing - unless, of course, they haven't started with testing a long time a go and just kept it secret.

So apparently Hyundai has really not a good relationship with time and scheduling. It would be hilarious if they will delay also the debut of the r5. But maybe as you said they have already done something before.

[mousti]

If they started testing now than it is too early. It's crazy risky to homologate the car after just six months of testing - unless, of course, they haven't started with testing a long time a go and just kept it secret.

They started now, Abbring stated on facebook that this was the starting of the development..

Verstuurd vanaf mijn Nexus 5 met Tapatalk

[Sulland]

If they started testing now than it is too early. It's crazy risky to homologate the car after just six months of testing - unless, of course, they haven't started with testing a long time a go and just kept it secret.

Using the MSport model og quick test and quick sales start, has more risk involved when you are not first out!
Now the customers has more to choose from!

[Mirek]

Using the MSport model og quick test and quick sales start, has more risk involved when you are not first out!
Now the customers has more to choose from!

M-Sport was gambling and succeeded thanks to the fail of PSA. The way how M-Sport achieved reliability with so little testing was to limit engine output. The situation is a lot different now when new Fiesta Evo and Fabia are on the market. Those both have very strong engine, a lot more than original Fiesta. But we'll see, maybe Hyundai can make everything right with so little time. It may help that FIA changed pop-off valves recently and also they can learn a lot from the problems of others. Still it will be interesting.

[dodge33cymru]

18 R5s/S2000s so far entered for first round of the British championship. Admittedly, 14-15 of those are Fiestas.....

[EightGear]

Abbring's time in the Peugeot will be of some value too I guess. Everything he has seen there, should not be copied to the i20. :D

[Jack4688`]

Is it possible that they will cram 9/12/18 months' worth of test outings into 6 months?

[dimviii]

Is it possible that they will cram 9/12/18 months' worth of test outings into 6 months?

from what we have seen from previous projects,no.

[makinen_fan]

Is it possible that they will cram 9/12/18 months' worth of test outings into 6 months?

It is not just the testing miles. There needs to be time to understand any problems and improve the car and deal with them.

[EightGear]

It does seem very opportunistic. Besides the R5, they will need to develop the '17 WRC and keep developing the '16 WRC.

Realistically I can only see the car in Ypres being the 0 car like both the Fiesta and 208 back in 2013.

[dimviii]

While the Hyundai i20 R5 begins to take its first steps and Citroen / Peugeot, like M-Sport prepares his great evolution to stand up to Skoda Fabia R5, another brand is planning the arrival of their own version of which is currently the second category of the World Rally Championship (first in cases such as the ERC and various National Championships). Toyota finally seems determined and after delaying the development of a version of the Yaris R5 repeatedly seems to already have date for its debut: 2018.

Until then there is much work ahead for the men of Tommi Mäkinen, who should be responsible for the development of the first World Rally Car version for the upcoming season. It is not excluded that TMG help in this project to make a R5 intended customers, nor that Mäkinen decide foguear the Japanese pilots, Hiroki Arai (son of Toshihiro) and Takamoto Katsuta, which has under its wing in the development of this new Toyota Yaris.

As soon as we have time to focus on that will. We are studying different areas anymore. We talked to people from TMG and of course with Toyota Motor Company for its Merca and the overall situation. This definitely will not be for 2017, expected to be 2018. If we could start now, we might have a car ready for 2017, but I see no sense in bringing the car into production if not fast enough.



http://www.diariomotor.com/competicion/2016/02/02/el-toyota-yaris-r5-sera-el-siguiente-en-llegar-objetivo-2018/

[Jarek Z]

M-Sport was gambling and succeeded thanks to the fail of PSA.

Gambling? Didn't Lemmy (R.I.P.) say that gambling was for fools? :D
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/motorhead/aceofspades148708.html

[Rally Power]

Is it possible that they will cram 9/12/18 months' worth of test outings into 6 months?

It'll be always more than 6 moths. The news said they want to get it ready at the end of the summer (late September) and that their main aim is to get units available for 2017 costumers programs. Having these in mind, it seems reasonable to expect homologation to happen only at the end of the year, or even at the beginning of January.

The joker's limitations gives manus greater responsibility to get things properly done, but R5 rules are stricter than WRC, with the use of control and even stock parts. Also, they can use the body shell/roll cage work from the WRC version and probably the R5 engine development is outsourced. 10 to 12 months can be enough to sort out a competitive car.

We all have in mind Skoda's long and great development work on the Fabia, but as far as I remember their testing calendar was also extended because of delays on the road model launch/start of production. That's not an issue for the i20.

[RS]

I think Skoda were testing for about one and a half years in total.

I wonder whether the next iteration of the R5 rules will give an 'upgrade' in order to maintain the gap with the new 2017 World Rally Cars?

[liposh]

I think that is the point. The gap must be bigger and that is partially why WRC2017 will have new rules. Moreover you can´t make R5 faster with same price without reliability loss. Maybe better sound would be appreciated, but I don´t think producers would like it, because sound is also wasting of energy.

[Mirek]

There is absolutely no need for more power in R5 cars. They are already around the level of first WRC cars in late 90'. And as Liposh said any further increase won't be for free.

[dimviii]

Good thing: the 32 hp extra power that has the Ford Fiesta R5 Evo allows you to move from one end of 178 km / h to 189 km / h.

Iván Fernández ‏@fernischumi

Buen dato: los 32 CV de potencia extra que tiene el Ford Fiesta R5 Evo le permite pasar de una punta de 178 km/h a 189 km/h. #WRC #ERC

[aykutbilir]

I wonder what will be the technical updates of DS3&208 R5? I didnt have the press release yet about it..


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[Mirek]

Good thing: the 32 hp extra power that has the Ford Fiesta R5 Evo allows you to move from one end of 178 km / h to 189 km / h.

Iván Fernández ‏@fernischumi

Buen dato: los 32 CV de potencia extra que tiene el Ford Fiesta R5 Evo le permite pasar de una punta de 178 km/h a 189 km/h. #WRC #ERC

We have the power curve from M-Sport. Those +32 Hp is not at the peak power and therefore had no direct effect on top speed. That huge rise of power is around 4000 rpm only. The peak power grew around 7 Hp. Anyway M-Sport didn't use any joker for gearings and they have the same two top speed options as before. The longer gearbox existed since early 2015 I think but was rarely used due to already mentioned lack of torque. Therefore I would say it a bit different way. The stronger engine doesn't bring higher top speed itself but allows to use already existing long gearbox effectively.

Br21 may correct me if anything what I wrote is wrong :)

[dimviii]

havent see the dynoplot,but if they have just 7 hp at high revs yes,would be difficult to raise the top speed by 11 km/h.

[Mirek]

Here is the dyno from M-Sport:
http://www.autosport.cz/img/clanky/b_643bccedc96c51c0f3c041a57082d6da.jpg

Anyway the top speed isn't limited by the power but only by gearing as the top speed is always on rpm limiter (given by rules). Otherwise I managed to make over 190 km/h GPS even with 1.2TSI 63KW Rapid which I once got for a business trip ;)

[Sulland]

Toyota will not start their R5 project until after their WRCar is launched according to eMotorsport.se

[dimviii]

Anyway the top speed isn't limited by the power but only by gearing as the top speed is always on rpm limiter (given by rules).

didn t know that from the rules the top speed must be on limiter.
So in this occasion yes not higher top speed with same gearing.Only faster to reach the top speed.

[br21]

Mirek is right of course. Already with normal engine in some situations longer gearbox was not worse than shorter one, so now with stronger engine it should be main option.
Regarding the PSA cars update is expected in March and will cover most those known relability problems (cooling, etc) plus some suspension, engine, steering things. Also Fiesta should receive some suspension upgrade in March probably.

[Mirek]

didn t know that from the rules the top speed must be on limiter.
So in this occasion yes not higher top speed with same gearing.Only faster to reach the top speed.

No, I may have written that in a confusing way. The top speed may be wherever on the curve but it can hardly happen that the power on rpm limiter is so small that it's can't be reached on top gear ;) What is given by the rules is rpm limiter at 7500 rpm.

[stefanvv]

What is given by the rules is rpm limiter at 7500 rpm.

do You know why such rule exists?

[stefanvv]

No, I may have written that in a confusing way. The top speed may be wherever on the curve but it can hardly happen that the power on rpm limiter is so small that it's can't be reached on top gear ;) What is given by the rules is rpm limiter at 7500 rpm.

Now I am confused. The original post made more sense to me, considering You meant by the power - bhp, but not torque and there is actually someone who really believes the top speed depends on the power?!?

[Mirek]

Of course the top speed depends on the power if it's not limited by the gearing. Nearly every stock car under let's say 200 Hp is limited by power on it's top speed and You can reach higher speed driving downhill or with a wind from behind. Speaking about torque when considering top speed is very missleading and can be considered even irrelevant as torque values transform through gears while power not.

Torque is a lot harder to understand because there is no direct dependence between torque and performance. Without knowledge of the whole curve and the gearing You can't say anything about the car while the peak power says quite a lot. When driven on straight diesel car and petrol naturally aspirated car both with 200 Hp will accelerate same way (when they have same weight) while when You do the same comparison with diesel car with 300 Nm and petrol naturally aspirated car with 300 Nm the later would be a lot faster and most likely have even higher top speed. The reason is that it must have a lot higher power.


do You know why such rule exists?

Most likely to keep reasonable durability and reliability. It's same for WRC cars.

[stefanvv]

Of course the top speed depends on the power if it's not limited by the gearing. Nearly every stock car under let's say 200 Hp is limited by power on it's top speed and You can reach higher speed driving downhill or with a wind from behind. Speaking about torque when considering top speed is very missleading and can be considered even irrelevant as torque values transform through gears while power not.

Torque is a lot harder to understand because there is no direct dependence between torque and performance. Without knowledge of the whole curve and the gearing You can't say anything about the car while the peak power says quite a lot. When driven on straight diesel car and petrol naturally aspirated car both with 200 Hp will accelerate same way (when they have same weight) while when You do the same comparison with diesel car with 300 Nm and petrol naturally aspirated car with 300 Nm the later would be a lot faster and most likely have even higher top speed. The reason is that it must have a lot higher power.

Yes I know at some point the power will have influence on the top speed, but that seems irrelevant with the current WRC/R5 cars considering the dyno curves and limited RPM to 7500. In my understanding power overcomes the friction forces of the tyres with road, various bearings and stuff, which increase as the speed also increase, while torque is more relevant to the traction, as on low speed and cornering, thus torque is irrelevant at these high speeds, and seems this engine is well optimised about these figures. Anyway diesel car with same power probably would accelerate faster at low RPM as it would have higher torque, but that's just for a short period of time.

[stefanvv]

Most likely to keep reasonable durability and reliability. It's same for WRC cars.

Hmm interesting, In f1 there are no such restrictions I believe, at least while I was still following it, and that was long time ago. AFAIR back then Ford 8-cyl Ford engines reached the cosmic 18K RPM, now they could be above 20K, I'm not aware. But of course these are N/A engines, as turbo were forbidden soon after introduced in 70's. Were the same RPM restrictions applied also for the N/A S2000 cars?

[makinen_fan]

Hmm interesting, In f1 there are no such restrictions I believe, at least while I was still following it, and that was long time ago. AFAIR back then Ford 8-cyl Ford engines reached the cosmic 18K RPM, now they could be above 20K, I'm not aware. But of course these are N/A engines, as turbo were forbidden soon after introduced in 70's. Were the same RPM restrictions applied also for the N/A S2000 cars?

Yes it exist in F1 as well, the last v8s were capped at 18k RPM and now the v6 turbos they are capped at 15k. Not sure about other motosports

[Mirek]

Hmm interesting, In f1 there are no such restrictions I believe, at least while I was still following it, and that was long time ago. AFAIR back then Ford 8-cyl Ford engines reached the cosmic 18K RPM, now they could be above 20K, I'm not aware. But of course these are N/A engines, as turbo were forbidden soon after introduced in 70's. Were the same RPM restrictions applied also for the N/A S2000 cars?

You don't have steel con rods and valves in F1. It's not allowed to use titanium in WRC/R5.

[Mirek]

Yes I know at some point the power will have influence on the top speed, but that seems irrelevant with the current WRC/R5 cars considering the dyno curves and limited RPM to 7500. In my understanding power overcomes the friction forces of the tyres with road, various bearings and stuff, which increase as the speed also increase, while torque is more relevant to the traction, as on low speed and cornering, thus torque is irrelevant at these high speeds, and seems this engine is well optimised about these figures. Anyway diesel car with same power probably would accelerate faster at low RPM as it would have higher torque, but that's just for a short period of time.

You are right with WRC/R5 as the power is always enough to accelerate up to rpm limiter. The main contributor for top speed when limited by power is drag as it is a squared function of speed. Other contributors are very minor in comparison.

The example diesel/petrol car was of course simplified. Let's say to a situation when both use continuous variable transmission with which they operate all the time on peak power ;)

[Jeppe]

Otherwise I managed to make over 190 km/h GPS even with 1.2TSI 63KW Rapid which I once got for a business trip ;)

Nice!! But I hope that was at the Autobahn ;) ;)

[Mirek]

Ja, natürlich, es war an A6 zwischen Tsechische Grenze und Nürnberg :p

Yes, it was on A6 between Czech border and Nürnberg.

[RS]

I used to have a 1.2tsi 63kw Rapid, fairly sure it had a lot more than the quoted power and torque figures!

[Jarek Z]

Ja, natürlich, es war an A6 zwischen Tsechische Grenze und Nürnberg :p

Warum nicht Nürburgring? :D

[Jarek Z]

2 Mitsubishis R5 in the first round of British championship:
http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/trzy-r5-w-spencer-sport,65929

[drive]

http://spencersport.co.uk/3-cars-for-brc/ - in english :)

[drive]

and more info on Mitsubishi R5 http://spencersport.co.uk/mitsubishi-r5/technical/

[aykutbilir]

wish that mitsubishi R5 work not stay at national work and get some support from Japan and get global.


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[TWRC]

Unfortunately, Mitsubishi support seems unlikely at the moment, but I hope they might change their minds later.

[aykutbilir]

japanese... never change their minds


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[Sulland]

Unfortunately, Mitsubishi support seems unlikely at the moment, but I hope they might change their minds later.

But the Brits are normally very good in persuading people, so lets see.
It might be that Mitsubishi would like to see some more results, and that it is fighting up there in the R5 crowd, before they give it their blessing.

[Mirek]

It seems that Al Kuwari is the first one to destroy Fabia R5 bodyshell...

[aykutbilir]

as technical details of M-R5 it is 280bhp not bad for starter


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[Mirek]

The others are well over 300 Hp and what is most important Fabia and Fiesta Evo have pretty flat power curve which gives them a very wide useful rpm range. Of course Mirage may have more power in reality than what they say to public. It wouldn't be anything special if the public numbers are just bullshit :)

[aykutbilir]

It seems that Al Kuwari is the first one to destroy Fabia R5 bodyshell...

already crashed.. oh..


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[Jarek Z]

already crashed.. oh..

That's the only way to be famous for him ;)

[aykutbilir]

he is famous in Turkey :) Crushing Toksport's Mini RRC at Bulgaria and Cyprus with in some months.


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[RICARDO75]

It seems that Al Kuwari is the first one to destroy Fabia R5 bodyshell...

Look's like an Adam

[Rally Power]

But the Brits are normally very good in persuading people, so lets see.
It might be that Mitsubishi would like to see some more results, and that it is fighting up there in the R5 crowd, before they give it their blessing.

It’ll be difficult to get Mitsubishi involved, but it’s a shame that MSA didn’t allow the Mirage at BRC’s main field. They could be less strict, as FIA authorizes ASN’s to homologate rally cars complying international rules. That’s why the LPG R5 Fiesta was homologated in Italy and a new R1 Twingo is also going to be homologated there. It seems Mr. Wilson pressure on MSA prevailed, avoiding the risk to lose some costumers to this Anglo/Swedish venture.

[Jarek Z]

Look's like an Adam

Indeed! Very talented driver ;)

[Jarek Z]

Only 3 days ago this car looked like Skoda Fabia ;)

http://www.autoklub.pl/news/foto/201601/news20160127_65820h.jpg

[Jarek Z]

Finally some success for Mitsubishi Mirage R5! Martin Berglund was 4th in the first round of Swedish championship. Without WRC cars he would have even been in the second position.

RALLY BILMETRO - final results:
1. Per-Gunnar Andersson/Emil Axelsson (S) Skoda Fabia WRC 1:00.30,0
2. Jerker Axelsson/Mattias Andersson (S) Subaru Impreza WRC S10 +2.00,4
3. Niklas Hägg/Christer Carlsson (S) Skoda Fabia S2000 +2.20,3
4. Martin Berglund/Joakim Gevert (S) Mitsubishi Mirage R5 +2.40,9
5. Thomas Thunström/Jörgen Lindahl (S) Citroën DS3 R5 +2.43,0
6. Mats Jonsson/Johnny Johansson (S) Ford Escort WRC +3.07,0
7. Eddie Hörbing/Björn Nilsson (S) Ford Fiesta R5 +3.13,4
8. Per-Arne Ljung/Kjell Andersson (S) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VII +3.44,1
10. Markus Theorin/Henrik Söderkvist (S) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VII +3.56,5
10. Björn Adolfsson/Mikael Johansson (S) Peugeot 208 T16 +4.02,2

[EightGear]

1. Andersson/Axelsson
2. Axelsson/Andersson

Nice.

[Sulland]

MPart should invite PG, Nikara, Henning or Petter to drive a car in the next round of SM. Would be cool to see!

[Jeppe]

MPart should invite PG, Nikara, Henning or Petter to drive a car in the next round of SM. Would be cool to see!

Or Mpart should invite themselves to Vaakuna Ralli (2nd Finnish Champ Rally 2016) and let Jari Ketomaa drive the car ;)

[Mirek]

Anyone knows how badly Desi Henry crashed his Fabia R5 in Galway?

[Simmi]

Anyone knows how badly Desi Henry crashed his Fabia R5 in Galway?

Heavy damage front and rear - with two wheels ripped off according to someone on the scene. They did think it looked repairable though.

Lots of bent metal on that rally.

[pantealex]

Or Mpart should invite themselves to Vaakuna Ralli (2nd Finnish Champ Rally 2016) and let Jari Ketomaa drive the car ;)

They are too afraid, OC Veiby is already in with FabiaR5

[Andre Oliveira]

Ketomaa with Mirage R5 on Vaakuna entry list

[pantealex]

They are too afraid, OC Veiby is already in with FabiaR5

and I was wrong, Mpart Mirage R5 is in with Ketomaa.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/12705730_428606980682175_1076205051989229399_n.jpg ?oh=8ba84077e86e2ea8f48fd95bd06f46b4&oe=572D51ED

[Sulland]

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/12705730_428606980682175_1076205051989229399_n.jpg ?oh=8ba84077e86e2ea8f48fd95bd06f46b4&oe=572D51ED

That will be a good test of status right now!

[Sulland]

The Quentin Giordano campaign, is Loeb Racing managing that themslves, or buying in with another team?
if they are doing it themselves, is the plan to buy a 2016 car with upgrades?

[vino_93]

Doing themselves. Don't know more about the car.

[RS]

I seem to remember Skoda only homologated one set of gear ratios so far. Can they add another without using a joker?

[br21]

Yes, additional set of gears you can add normally, no Joker needed for it.

PSA cars still don't have any 2016 updates homologated.

[RS]

Yes, additional set of gears you can add normally, no Joker needed for it.

Thanks, I can imagine Skoda might homologate a shorter set. Having such a high top speed seems like a waste on certain rallies where stronger acceleration would be more useful.

[Mirek]

RS: But is it needed? In my understanding the power curve is so flat that the advantage of shorter gearing would count mainly only on first gear in extremely good grip conditions. Another question is if it wouldn't worsen driveshaft and differential reliability.

Br21: What is exactly allowed as the second option? Only final drive or a complete set? In that case it could be more beneficial to create a kind of asphalt and gravel gear sets instead of just short and long option.

[br21]

I don't know the rules for it exactly, but both Fiesta and PSA cars have additional set of ratios homologated, with same final drive. PSA homologated two sets at same time (with first homologation), M-Sport added additional set of gear ratios later.

[polo10]

RS: But is it needed? In my understanding the power curve is so flat that the advantage of shorter gearing would count mainly only on first gear in extremely good grip conditions. Another question is if it wouldn't worsen driveshaft and differential reliability.

Br21: What is exactly allowed as the second option? Only final drive or a complete set? In that case it could be more beneficial to create a kind of asphalt and gravel gear sets instead of just short and long option.

I think for tarmac it is needed, at least for non fast tarmac rallys, and you can put things in other way, why not homologate and then the driver decid?...I think that even factory drivers ask for that...

[Mirek]

Thank You both. I'm quite sure they will come with second set but in the same time I believe they keep it for the future to have a way to react on development of others. Let's not forget only two options are allowed by the rules.

[RS]

RS: But is it needed? In my understanding the power curve is so flat that the advantage of shorter gearing would count mainly only on first gear in extremely good grip conditions. Another question is if it wouldn't worsen driveshaft and differential reliability.


It's almost like an electric motor??

The car just seemed a little lazy to me sometimes but maybe the sound is fooling my senses.

Maybe now the new Fiesta is out it's time to think about it..

[Andre Oliveira]

Jari Ketomaa today, in Fafe, helping the legend Fernando Peres learning Fiesta R5

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbX6QbjWEAANJUC.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbX6QbYWcAAnyaM.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbX6QdcXEAAugcv.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbX6QbNWIAE-1yS.jpg

Photos by rallygirls

[silian]

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[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tom Cave off on the first stage in his new Fiesta R5 ! :(

'Absolutely gutted - mechanical problem which sent car off rolled endless times down into the ravine, both ok thankfully'

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbvMTocWEAAgx5V.jpg

After all the hard work done by Spencer Sport prepping the car... :(

[Sulland]

Will Loebs team buy a new T16, or have they bought a second hand one? (Or two?)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

David Bogie scored the first UK win for a ŠKODA Fabia R5 on the Red Kite Stages today.

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12112293_1258899990792350_4105086051105936616_n.jp g?oh=39688e167d8775cf9b955f2793d2a927&oe=575304BD

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Bogie secures first UK win for a ŠKODA Fabia R5

“I was very impressed with the build quality of the Fabia R5. The car has proven to be very competitive overseas, and I’m confident it will be just as competitive on the British stages too,” said David Bogie. “BRC is full of very good drivers, but I’m obviously looking forward to competing against Elfyn Evans again. This will be the first time we’ve competed against each other in like-for-like machinery since I beat him to the BRC title in 2011, so we’ll be pushing to win!’’

Bogie will return to the BRC in the opening Mid Wales Stages rally, which takes place on 5th and 6th March.

Scottish rally driver David Bogie secured a first victory on British soil for the ŠKODA Fabia R5 by winning the Red Kite Stages on Sunday. The former British Rally Champion was taking part to test the CA1 Sport-run Fabia R5 ahead of the opening round of this year’s British Rally Championship. In wet and windy conditions, in which he had to contend with poor visibility, Bogie secured a 41 second victory over the six stage gravel event.

“It was important that we could fine-tune that for muddy Welsh gravel ahead of the opening round of the British Rally Championship. It was a very good test and it was good to get a win for ŠKODA, and the first win for a Fabia R5 on British soil,” said David Bogie. “To finish 41 seconds ahead of Julian Reynolds, who is a very quick driver, shows the pace we were going at. We’ve even been hitting some of the rough stuff just to see how the car reacts, and all credit to ŠKODA Motorsport on building a fantastic car.”

[Sulland]

Overseas?
for most that is America, but not the Brits.

I hope they vote No in the EU referendum!

but he is right in that the Skoda is good!!

[dupanton]

Strange rear wing on the new I20 R5: https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/t31.0-8/11259879_10154002924984973_1177522884044698986_o.j pg

[Sulland]

Not sure what the regs say, but it looks like the get a longer distance from the roof to the wing, if that could be a benefit. The engineers here can probably answer possible reasons they have to go for this option?

[TWRC]

Puskádi has received his Fabia R5 this week. He's going to debut it on Canarias, but he says that the car is free to rent for the rest of the season. He himself will do some Zone Trophy or Mitropa Cup rallies if the car will be available for those dates.
900

[Mirek]

It could be interesting to search for exact regulations to see if it is allowed to have a connection between the wing and the bodyshell which has an aerodynamic function. The aerodynamic details are always kind of shady area with many questionable prepositions in the regulations. The good example is wheel arches of Fiesta S2000 which clearly were designed to create additional aero downforce despite that it's not allowed by the rules. I guess the reasoning in that time was in a way that every wheel arch from its nature affect aerodynamics and therefore all of them are technically illegal if the rules are taken literally.

[Iraquiano]

As far as distance is concerned, usually the further you are from the disturbing body, the 'cleaner' your flow is. Despite that, in that area, you also have to pay attention to the flow you leave to the rear of the car. So that rear wing should provide downforce but also direct the air to the back of the car. For sure they studied it, it depends a lot on the shape of the bodywork of the car, so what works best on the Hyundai may not work so good on the Peugeot for example.

[Mirek]

I have found on my disk ten years old homologation regulations for S2000 cars. Of course it may have changed through time but this is what I have (unfortunately without picture). It seems the rules changed because the assembly on Hyundai car seem to be biger than 200 mm in height.


- Rear aerodynamic device
The car’s original device must be removed.
One single device must be present. This device must respect the dimensions defined by drawing n° 2 and Appendix 3.
For two-volume cars, if the device is mounted on the top of the tailgate, the compliance with the 75 mm dimension is not mandatory.
This device must be rigid and offer no possibility for the penetration of air (groove, hole, opening, etc.).
The wing must be made in one single piece (a single profile and no adjustment flap in conformity with Appendix 3), and must be straight in all its dimensions.
The device must be totally contained within the frontal projection of the car without its wing mirrors.
The complete assembled device must be contained, together with its supports, within a box having a width of 150 mm and a height of 200 mm.
The maximum chord of this wing is set at 149 mm +/- 1 mm.
The distance “a” of at least 100 mm will be checked at 0° of incidence.
The maximum width of the single Be 183-176 type carrier profile (see Appendix 3)must not exceed 1200 mm and this profile may be adjustable.
A manufacturing tolerance of +/- 0.5 mm will be applied for measuring the profile.
This tolerance must be random between two consecutive measurements.
The trailing edge may have a thickness of 2 mm.
Attachment onto the glass is prohibited, only support is authorised.
The side plates may extend beyond 1200 mm, when seen from the front, but must not generate any aerodynamic force and must have a minimum hickness of 10 mm and a maximum width of 20 mm.
The wing should be checked with the car horizontal.
The wing supports must be defined as in drawing n°2.

[Sulland]

I take it as a given that the aero package are first being tested via 3d models, then buildt in a few different models and put through wind tullels in scale, and maybe also fullsize before homologated?

And then the new diffuser on the Fiestas in another thread, looks more like a version 0,15, looking very basic, amd something that could be thrown together in a local garage!

[OldF]

I don’t know how it’s about the R5 regulations bur this pic is from S2000 regulations. I don’t remember from where I got it, probably from some page I googled and saved it.




http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/OkdF/S2000%20rear%20wing_zps7530m4qp.jpg

[TWRC]

Puskádi has received his Fabia R5 this week. He's going to debut it on Canarias, but he says that the car is free to rent for the rest of the season. He himself will do some Zone Trophy or Mitropa Cup rallies if the car will be available for those dates.
900
Now with livery:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10400113_1058727757518993_2531905863375768998_n.jp g?oh=a5f58e6e115c3de13a79a1199f3cfb9b&oe=5764E017&__gda__=1466593351_f34d035c4fb7b728582f0347bf410dd c

[Mirek]

Very nice!

[sete]

yes its nice livery
same like on Fabia S2000
http://mirousxl.rajce.idnes.cz/Rally_Cesky_Krumlov_2014/#DSC_0063.jpg

[Sulland]

Right now in the R5 battle there is a two-way battle only. Ford vs Skoda.
Hopefully the PSA will get better on the loose, and get some reliability!

And we have Hyundai coming in this summer.
Maybe Mitsubishi will homologate the Mirage.

Impressive of Ford to soon reach 150 sold R5s!

[aykutbilir]

love Eurosol livery :)


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[Sulland]

Are there differences btw the Citroen and Peugeots in the front and back axels and suspension, or are they duplicates here?

[aykutbilir]

Are there differences btw the Citroen and Peugeots in the frant and back axels and suspension, or are they duplicates here?

yes they are. very very close



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[br21]

Both PSA cars are almost identical. Only differences are the parts you see - bodyshell plus bumpers, doors, etc. From parts you can't see different is propshaft (longer in Peugeot) and rear diff protection. All other the same.

Fiesta has best chassis and suspension, now with new evolution of the engine it should be really competitive. Fabia is good as total package, but as for now not many spare parts available, very expensive to run and not easy to adapt for the driver as plenty of "special" parts. Recently I had worked with Citroen, and I'm positively surprised. We did a lot of kms of tests and no single issue with the car, now with new pop-off you can use strongest engine map and absolutely no problems, didn't open even once. For tarmac it's very good car, in April there should be big new homologation for crucial parts, so should be better/more reliable. It's really like race car, reacts for setup changes like race car, etc. With very short wheelbase it's pretty nervous, but also not "lazy" with reactions. It's typical tarmac car, not well suited for gravel...

Hyundai is in very early stage of development, so I really doubt it will be ready mid year.

[Sulland]

Thanks for a good answer br21, do you think the little difference in wheelbase where T16 being 100mm longer, makes it less nervous on gravel?

Why does the T16 have longer driveshafts, I guess the diffs/box are the same, or are any of the distances btw wheels on either front/rear also different?

[TWRC]

Thanks for a good answer br21, do you think the little difference in wheelbase where T16 being 100mm longer, makes it less nervous on gravel?

Why does the T16 have longer driveshafts, I guess the diffs/box are the same, or are any of the distances btw wheels on either front/rear also different?
The propshaft is longer (because of the +100mm in wheelbase), not the driveshafts.

[Sulland]

The propshaft is longer (because of the +100mm in wheelbase), not the driveshafts.

Sorry my mistake. Thought driveshaft and propshaft was the same, and that the axle btw front and reas was the countershaft. :sailor:

[br21]

Yes, for sure longer wheelbase helps a lot with stability on gravel

[Sulland]

What about wheeltravel in gravel set-up on the twins. Is there a big difference btw them and the Ford and Skoda, or more or less the same?

[br21]

I don't know the suspension travel of PSA cars as I only run them on tarmac. But for sure it's not only about the travel, there are many more important things to have good gravel car.

[Andre Oliveira]

At least 39 Ford Fiesta R5 competing this weekend. IMPRESSIVE

[M5]

In the database there is ca 300 S2000 sold, and soon the same number of R5s. That has happened fast, and shows the class potential.

The Mirage is close to the top R5 speed, so Mitsubishi should say yes to homologation, they will not loose face on doing that. On the contrary they will get a new rally car representing their brand for free!

If Loebs 208 team with new parts succeeds, Peugeot will sell many upgrade kits, and also new cars.
It seems that the DS3 is a tarmac car only, and no good on gravel.

[Mirek]

How do You know that the car as it is is all according to homologation regulations for R5?

[M5]

As far as i read, the only issue was the metal in the rollcage.

Are you aware of more?

[Mirek]

No, I'm not but I know that even those who actually homologated R5 cars faced a lot of issues during the whole process and I can't believe a car which wasn't built in permanent contact with FIA can be all right according to the rules. It might be details but we don't know them and how much affect on performance they have. Simply I would be careful in judgments.

[TWRC]

In the database there is ca 300 S2000 sold, and soon the same number of R5s. That has happened fast, and shows the class potential.

The Mirage is close to the top R5 speed, so Mitsubishi should say yes to homologation, they will not loose face on doing that. On the contrary they will get a new rally car representing their brand for free!

If Loebs 208 team with new parts succeeds, Peugeot will sell many upgrade kits, and also new cars.
It seems that the DS3 is a tarmac car only, and no good on gravel.
Rumour has Tagai Racing Technology has already ordered 3 208 T16 Evos, two completed cars, and one in pieces. Either they have a lot of faith, or that update will be good indeed.

[Sulland]

No, I'm not but I know that even those who actually homologated R5 cars faced a lot of issues during the whole process and I can't believe a car which wasn't built in permanent contact with FIA can be all right according to the rules. It might be details but we don't know them and how much affect on performance they have. Simply I would be careful in judgments.

Could there be that any of the Swedes or any connected to Spencer Sport that has insight on the homologation process on the Mirage?

[Rallyper]

No, I'm not but I know that even those who actually homologated R5 cars faced a lot of issues during the whole process and I can't believe a car which wasn't built in permanent contact with FIA can be all right according to the rules. It might be details but we don't know them and how much affect on performance they have. Simply I would be careful in judgments.

That means FIA is not working to make progress for the rallysport. If you don´t have them on your side you´re finished, is that so? Rules are rules and those you can read, when building a car. Seems just rotten bureaucracy and collecting money to me.

[Berglund]

Could there be that any of the Swedes or any connected to Spencer Sport that has insight on the homologation process on the Mirage?

The Mirage is built 100% to fit Fia r5 regulations, and belive Me when i say that it has been not an easy way to go, many major things had been changed during the way and both sbf and fia technicians are involved in the project.

[Andre Oliveira]

If it was not envolved Mitsubishi, why not built the car in other make (agreement of homologation) to put it worldwide? The car looks competitive

[Berglund]

If it was not envolved Mitsubishi, why not built the car in other make (agreement of homologation) to put it worldwide? The car looks competitive

M-part the company developing Mirage r5 is the swedish ralliart/mitsubishi parts dealer
It would be difficoult for them to build on other brand or build on mitsubishi without their involvment dont you think? (-;
But the strategy can be to get a competitive car with proven reliability before locking a homologation...?