Rally2 (ex-R5) News

[Fast Eddie WRC]

You can buy Skoda Fabia Monte Carlo ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeNfGTyKzdw

Unfortunately more of a 'special edition' than a performance car...

Auto Expess verdict:
In all forms, the latest Fabia is a challenger to the very best superminis. Some will certainly see a benefit to the extra power of this 1.5 TSI engine over the existing 1.0-litre unit but don’t let the looks of the Monte Carlo fool you; this is not a remotely sporty hatchback.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Why skoda never produced a Fabia Rally road version like Yaris GR...

Just a proper hot-hatch version would be something, never mind a homologation special.

I never understood why they promoted their brand via small, fast, exciting rally cars but dont market such road cars.

[focus206]

Unfortunately more of a 'special edition' than a performance car...

Auto Expess verdict:
In all forms, the latest Fabia is a challenger to the very best superminis. Some will certainly see a benefit to the extra power of this 1.5 TSI engine over the existing 1.0-litre unit but don’t let the looks of the Monte Carlo fool you; this is not a remotely sporty hatchback.

Fabia Monte Carlo has the same exact engine of the most powerful "normal" version, 1.0 TSI with 110 hp, the difference is just in the looks.
Fabia Sport Monte Carlo has 1.5 TSI with 150 hp.
It depends where you draw the line to consider it sporty or brilliant or whatever. Already the 1.0 TSI with 110 hp has basically the same performance as a Swift Sport.

[HKSjbg]

Just a proper hot-hatch version would be something, never mind a homologation special.

When they stopped producing the last vRS version it was cited that ‘the market doesn’t want it’ or something like that - but that was back when the vRS, Polo GTI and Ibiza Cupra had the 1.4 TSI engine and DSG ‘box.

A mid-life refresh to the latter two brought a 1.8 TSI and manual gearbox. I always thought the real reason ‘the market didn’t want it’ was because they tried offering a small hot hatch with an automatic gearbox! A bit of a moot point as now that market really has dwindled in size

[manthey]

Toyota Rally2 demo with Rally1

https://youtube.com/shorts/JD9vW2nlZjo?feature=share

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fabia RS evening / night test vid:
https://youtu.be/JYSVGBmUppU

[RS]

Toyota Rally2 demo with Rally1

https://youtube.com/shorts/JD9vW2nlZjo?feature=share

To me, the engine of the Yaris Rally2 looks weak, not just in comparison to the Rally1. But it’s early days, maybe it’s just something they knocked up for the initial test mule.

[AnttiL]

To me, the engine of the Yaris Rally2 looks weak, not just in comparison to the Rally1. But it’s early days, maybe it’s just something they knocked up for the initial test mule.

It could even be a standard engine

[rp]

To me, the engine of the Yaris Rally2 looks weak, not just in comparison to the Rally1. But it’s early days, maybe it’s just something they knocked up for the initial test mule.

Rally3 engine.

[becher]

Rally3 engine.

Keep hearing this, is this "rumour" based on anything?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Yaris Rally2 engine start and off the line at demo start:
https://youtu.be/MC52t7xBdEA

[Kenneth]

I guess it's 3cl engine by that sound.. Will Toyota try to get change of ruleset to allow other engines than 4cl 1.6T? I think that would be only healthy for rally. And not only in Rally2, but would be nice to see less strict engine rules in Rally1 too.

[HKSjbg]

The engine regs don’t state it has to be four cylinders, just ‘up to 1620cc turbo with 32mm restrictor’

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/fia_rally_car_pyramid_brochure_-_february_2021.pdf

[RS]

Rally3 engine.

Does that car exist yet?

[rp]

Does that car exist yet?

Only a rumour.

[Kenneth]

The engine regs don’t state it has to be four cylinders, just ‘up to 1620cc turbo with 32mm restrictor’

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/fia_rally_car_pyramid_brochure_-_february_2021.pdf

Okay, thanks. So then, is it better to use 3cl vs 4cl while keeping the same engine volume?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Nice WRC Wings aero assessment of the Yaris Rally2 Concept...

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2022/11/21/aero-details-in-the-toyota-gr-yaris-rally2-concept-car/

[WRCStan]

The engine regs don’t state it has to be four cylinders, just ‘up to 1620cc turbo with 32mm restrictor’

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/fia_rally_car_pyramid_brochure_-_february_2021.pdf

"The number of cylinders is limited to 4."

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/261_2022_wmsc_2022.10.19_jt.pdf

[HKSjbg]

"The number of cylinders is limited to 4."

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/261_2022_wmsc_2022.10.19_jt.pdf

OK so no inline-fives or more allowed :D

[Sulland]

OK so no inline-fives or more allowed :D

Or GTV6

[Duvel]

When wil we see the Yaris rally 2 in competition?

[AnttiL]

When wil we see the Yaris rally 2 in competition?

Maybe not before 2024?

[Sulland]

Okay, thanks. So then, is it better to use 3cl vs 4cl while keeping the same engine volume?

I am sure one of the engine specialists here will do an analysis, and calculations on differences. The only difference I saw in the tech regs, was difference in max valve lift. Higher lift on 3cyl.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://twitter.com/lpaanala/status/1596081688869801984?s=46&t=HsouKOw-9MNlXJvRmMzYMg

[Sulland]

https://twitter.com/lpaanala/status/1596081688869801984?s=46&t=HsouKOw-9MNlXJvRmMzYMg

deleted, what was this about?

[Andre Oliveira]

I have it here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/grupoportuguesderalis/permalink/477475597603858/

[manthey]

I have it here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/grupoportuguesderalis/permalink/477475597603858/Flames for Fast and Furious!

[Sulland]

We had a small discussion here, regarding max price of the Rally2 in 2023.
And I dont remember.

What will it cost for a new Fabia with one undercarriage?
And for a new one with both undercarriages and some needed spares, that normally is bought as a starter pack. How much is that aprox?

Is it more or less the same price for all Rally2s, due to maxprice?

[jcevc]

All this FIA price cap for different classes of cars are big bullshit.

We all know how developed S2000 price cap, which was if I remember
correct 160.000 USD - Fabia S2000 was around 250-300.000 eur ready for rally.

Price cap for rally2 cars is 190.000. All new cars are 250.000€+ ready to start the rally.

Also rally3 price cap is 100.000€, but now you can find 1 season old cars which are selling for more than 100.000€ - how is this possible?
Simple, new car, ready to start the rally is around 120.000€. But how, if FIA price cap is 100.000€? :confused:

[TheFlyingTuga]

All this FIA price cap for different classes of cars are big bullshit.

We all know how developed S2000 price cap, which was if I remember
correct 160.000 USD - Fabia S2000 was around 250-300.000 eur ready for rally.

Price cap for rally2 cars is 190.000. All new cars are 250.000€+ ready to start the rally.

Also rally3 price cap is 100.000€, but now you can find 1 season old cars which are selling for more than 100.000€ - how is this possible?
Simple, new car, ready to start the rally is around 120.000€. But how, if FIA price cap is 100.000€? :confused:

Loop in the rulebook. FIA states that the car as to work, doesn't say that it should be in a racing state. Few years ago, when the first Hyundai R5 car was introduced I asked if it would be possible to buy with 190k to someone from HMS. They said yes. It was just not race ready.

[jcevc]

Loop in the rulebook. FIA states that the car as to work, doesn't say that it should be in a racing state. Few years ago, when the first Hyundai R5 car was introduced I asked if it would be possible to buy with 190k to someone from HMS. They said yes. It was just not race ready.

OK, thank you for explanation. But anyway, useless rule IMO.

[manthey]

Loop in the rulebook. FIA states that the car as to work, doesn't say that it should be in a racing state. Few years ago, when the first Hyundai R5 car was introduced I asked if it would be possible to buy with 190k to someone from HMS. They said yes. It was just not race ready.So "base price" only as a demo car without rally dampers/diffs/ etc?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fabia RS availability issues...
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/when-will-skodas-new-rally2-car-be-available/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Re Yaris Rally2
"I think there’s multiple layers to its importance,” Fowler told DirtFish.

“The target is that more people can enjoy what we have created in terms of performance driving rally cars. At the moment only four people in the world get to experience what Toyota Gazoo Racing WRC team is doing.

“As you’ve seen from Akio [Toyoda, president of Toyota] he’s completely keen on everyone who wants to enjoying driving as much as possible, for whatever reason that makes them happy, not just winning world championships but winning maybe your local rally or regional championship, or just on a Sunday for fun.”

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-a-rally2-car-is-important-to-toyota/

[br21]

So "base price" only as a demo car without rally dampers/diffs/ etc?

More like with cheapest seats, no roofvent, cheap mirrors, no tripmeter, no sliding windows, no jack, spare wheel holder, protections, etc.

[manthey]

More like with cheapest seats, no roofvent, cheap mirrors, no tripmeter, no sliding windows, no jack, spare wheel holder, protections, etc.For over 30/50k?

[Sulland]

All this FIA price cap for different classes of cars are big bullshit.

We all know how developed S2000 price cap, which was if I remember
correct 160.000 USD - Fabia S2000 was around 250-300.000 eur ready for rally.

Price cap for rally2 cars is 190.000. All new cars are 250.000€+ ready to start the rally.

Also rally3 price cap is 100.000€, but now you can find 1 season old cars which are selling for more than 100.000€ - how is this possible?
Simple, new car, ready to start the rally is around 120.000€. But how, if FIA price cap is 100.000€? :confused:

Checked Rally3 Fiesta price when it came, prices might have changed

Rally ready car in either Gravel or Asphalt config 99 900 euro
VIN number registration 10 000 euro
Gravel or Asphalt conversion kit 10 000 euro

total 120 000

Normal equipment/ spares package chosen by most drivers/teams 10 000-30 000 euro

In grand total 130 to 150 000 euro

So aprox 50% of a Rally2 car, with same equipment.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Kankkunen keen for Yaris Rally2 testing role...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/kankkunen-keen-for-toyota-testing-role/

[Jarek Z]

“The target is that more people can enjoy what we have created in terms of performance driving rally cars. At the moment only four people in the world get to experience what Toyota Gazoo Racing WRC team is doing.

“As you’ve seen from Akio [Toyoda, president of Toyota] he’s completely keen on everyone who wants to enjoying driving as much as possible, for whatever reason that makes them happy, not just winning world championships but winning maybe your local rally or regional championship, or just on a Sunday for fun.”

I like this attitude!

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/jari-matti-latvala-toyotan-wrc-tallin-uudesta-projektista-kaikki-tehdaan-itse/

Toyota will have indeed three cylinders. They could use an external team in 2024 for running the WRC2 team.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

"It is true that it is a three-cylinder engine, because the rally car is based on a standard car. The GR Yaris has three cylinders. A rally car is based on that car and that engine", Latvala explains.

Good to have clarity from the team, remembering all the arguments about the 1.6T in the original Fiesta R5.

[manthey]

"

Good to have clarity from the team, remembering all the arguments about the 1.6T in the original Fiesta R5.

Which story was about 1.6T on Fiesta?

[becher]

The three cylinder in the Yaris Rally2 is old news isn't it?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Which story was about 1.6T on Fiesta?

About whether it used the engine from the Fiesta ST base-car, or another Ford engine adapted to fit the size regs.

[AnttiL]

The three cylinder in the Yaris Rally2 is old news isn't it?

From the mouth of a team member, I think not. Or give me a link to prove me wrong :)

[becher]

From the mouth of a team member, I think not. Or give me a link to prove me wrong :)
I don't have a link, but i think it was mentioned already like half a year ago?

[AnttiL]

I don't have a link, but i think it was mentioned already like half a year ago?

When did we even get confirmed news that the car exists?

[becher]

When did we even get confirmed news that the car exists?

I think it was rather along the lines of "future Rally2/3 will use the three cylinder".

[becher]

When did we even get confirmed news that the car exists?

Maybe i just put one and one together, when reading this article long ago:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/toyota-set-expand-rally-car-line-up-into-rally2-and-rally3/

"DirtFish understands the one-liter engine option from Toyota wasn’t capable of challenging the 210bhp required for a frontrunning Rally3 machine, hence the shift to a 1.6 motor."

[Sulland]

But are there any drawbacks in having a 3 cylinder engine?

[ictus]

But are there any drawbacks in having a 3 cylinder engine?

fewer valves,
but i think they can be larger, so the overall amount of air getting in the combustion chamber is the same

[dimviii]

also less friction at movement parts,and very near to the ''ideal'' 500cc for each cylinder.
Also less length of engine.

[Sulland]

One difference

Maximum valve lift :
• 11 mm for a 4-cylinder engine
• 13 mm for a 3-cylinder engine
The cam lift must be homologated in VRa2.
The number and diameter of the bearings must be retained.
‘’VVT’’ and “VALVETRONIC” etc. type systems are authorised if original. They may be rendered inoperative.

Check article 261 to see if you can spot other differences:
https://www.fia.com/regulations/search

[becher]

Also generally speaking a engine with more displacement per cylinder is more suitable to regulations with a small restrictor right?

[dimviii]

Also generally speaking a engine with more displacement per cylinder is more suitable to regulations with a small restrictor right?

Imho i dont see any advantage.If you could explain will be usefull.

[Sulland]

Where are all the engineers/ math experts that can explain the tech pros/cons of 3 and 4 cyl 1620 ccm turbos!

[becher]

Imho i dont see any advantage.If you could explain will be usefull.

Well as an example, 1000cm^3 two cylinder motorcycle engines tend to produce more torque earlier in the rev range than 1000cm^3 four cylinder. Given the restrictor formula "forces" engines to be "low reving engines with lots of torque down low" there is a similarity in the power delivery i'd say, if the displacement per cylinder really does make a difference under current rules is another matter.

[Andre Oliveira]

Eurosol, to Simon Wagner

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjdZynQXEAINf4p?format=jpg&name=large

[WRCStan]

Where are all the engineers/ math experts that can explain the tech pros/cons of 3 and 4 cyl 1620 ccm turbos!

Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=3+cylinder+vs+4+cylinder+engi ne)


Inside Toyota's Insanely Powerful 3-Cylinder (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo3vyrMayZM)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The Fiesta ST switched to a 3-cylinder 1.5 engine with the Mk8 and it makes more power than the old 1.6. It's also used in the Fiesta Rally3 so it's clearly been found to be a good configuration.

[ouvreur]

It's also used in the Fiesta Rally3 so it's clearly been found to be a good configuration.

Or... they had to use it for homologation purposes...

[Andre Oliveira]

I remember they said something about 1.5 instead 1.0 at Rally3.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Eric Cais confirms he has a new Fabia RS Rally2 for Monte Carlo.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I remember they said something about 1.5 instead 1.0 at Rally3.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/m-sport-reveals-1-5-liter-engine-plan-for-rally3/

[RS]

Nikolay Gryazin just took the new Fabia's second victory at Rallye Hirvenal du Devoluy. He won all but one stage, Loubet was his closest rival but he retired after 7 stages with mechanical issues. Tricky to read too much into it because of conditions/tyre choices etc but the winning margins on some stages were quite large. From the videos i saw Gryazin looked pretty comfortable with the car already despite just one day testing. Results here:

https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/79894-rallye-national-hivernal-du-devoluy-2022/?s=394922

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Loubet's Fiesta Rally2 is Chassis #8... an early car that has been in private hands in Belgium and I believe not the latest spec.

[dimviii]

Tricky to read too much into it because of conditions/tyre choices etc

yes i see snow tyres here

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fjr9Xb9XkAE-Uyt?format=jpg&name=large

[Sulland]

If MSport have pinpointed and corrected the issues their Rally2 Fiesta has on gravel/snow in the last joker, then sales will jump very quickly.

I hope they have fixed it, we need all Rally2 cars to be competitive!

[AnttiL]

If MSport have pinpointed and corrected the issues their Rally2 Fiesta has on gravel/snow in the last joker, then sales will jump very quickly.

I hope they have fixed it, we need all Rally2 cars to be competitive!

It needs more than a joker can fix

[wyler]

Loubet's Fiesta Rally2 is Chassis #8... an early car that has been in private hands in Belgium and I believe not the latest spec.

definitely not from the test video ( clearly old rear wing, i.e)

[wyler]

It needs more than a joker can fix

hard to tell, but they announced a big development program coming this year.

[TWRC]

If MSport have pinpointed and corrected the issues their Rally2 Fiesta has on gravel/snow in the last joker, then sales will jump very quickly.

I hope they have fixed it, we need all Rally2 cars to be competitive!
Without someone actually demonstrating the effects of those upgrades (and all the Fiesta regulars departing to other cars isn't doing that for me), they won't believe they work. It is very difficult to get over a broken reputation in RC2 even if many/most of the issues are fixed (see DS3 R5 or 208 T16).
Also, I have heard that due to Brexit it is quite difficult and more expensive to get parts for the Fiestas, but maybe someone with more knowledge could deny or confirm this.

[WUff1]

Hermann Neubauer switches from Fiesta to Fabia Rally2 RS from Kresta Racing at least for Jänner Rallye.

[Jarek Z]

Andrien Formaux will stay in Fiesta Rally2 and compete in Janner Rallye too:
https://www.autohebdo.fr/actualites/rallye/wrc/fourmaux-present-sur-le-janner-rally-avec-une-fiesta-rally2.html

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport needs some top results in the Fiesta Rally2 to convince any potential buyers. Sadly even if the car is substantially developed it has a tough fight on its hands vs the existing competition, never mind the new Fabis RS...

[PLuto]

Without someone actually demonstrating the effects of those upgrades (and all the Fiesta regulars departing to other cars isn't doing that for me), they won't believe they work. It is very difficult to get over a broken reputation in RC2 even if many/most of the issues are fixed (see DS3 R5 or 208 T16).
Also, I have heard that due to Brexit it is quite difficult and more expensive to get parts for the Fiestas, but maybe someone with more knowledge could deny or confirm this.

M-Sport was promising development, but did almost nothing. There is no progress...

[Andre Oliveira]

The best drivers are in others. No official national Ford teams too. It is lost.

[Andre Oliveira]

Hermann Neubauer switches from Fiesta to Fabia Rally2 RS from Kresta Racing at least for Jänner Rallye.

Fabia R5 -> 1st generation
Fabia Rally2 evo -> 2nd generation
Fabia RS Rally2 -> 3rd generation

Are you sure about RS?

[polo10]

The best drivers are in others. No official national Ford teams too. It is lost.
The car is worst then the others, don t blame the drivers...

[pantealex]

hard to tell, but they announced a big development program coming this year.

they promised upgrades year ago.

it's December and nothing has come ...

[wyler]

they promised upgrades year ago.

it's December and nothing has come ...

i'm referring to the recent statement about keeping the fiesta as platform for rally2 and lower for the next years.

[AnttiL]

i'm referring to the recent statement about keeping the fiesta as platform for rally2 and lower for the next years.

What did it say about development?

[RS]

Maybe M-Sport can do what Skoda did with the Fabia Rally2 Evo which was a new homologation based on the facelifted road car?

You’d think they would take it seriously as it’s an important source of income for them.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Solberg testing the Fabia RS
https://youtu.be/35Grleyv8bg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

What did it say about development?

"Development is underway across the board with our Fiesta based cars as well, with the Fiesta Rally2, Rally3 and Rally4 currently enjoying thorough development programmes."

[PLuto]

"Development is underway across the board with our Fiesta based cars as well, with the Fiesta Rally2, Rally3 and Rally4 currently enjoying thorough development programmes."

Currently they are developing mainly Rally3 to be able to fight with new Clio...

[wyler]

What did it say about development?

planning development trough the year on all the pyramid, from rally2 to lesser. maybe only pr though.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Currently they are developing mainly Rally3 to be able to fight with new Clio...

And with the signing of Tanak the Puma Rally1 development will be a priority.

[Jarek Z]

We have plenty of snow in Poland now, so Erik Cais is testing his new Skoda beforore Rallye Monte Carlo here. How come he already has a starting number for this event? ;)
https://rallypl.com/fotgalerie/foto-erik-cais-skoda-fabia-rs-rally2-testy-przed-monte-calo2022-1/

[Jarek Z]

Erik is testing his new car day and night! His Skoda makes squeaky noises:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_pYmUEvB_Q

[Jarek Z]

Have a look - even though the speed is very low, it is so slippery that Erik make a mistake:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=444IunUZRPY

[Fast Eddie WRC]

On Rossel and Citroen C3 Rally2 development:

"While Rossel is aware the Czech manufacturer’s new machine is likely to be straight on the pace, he’s confident in his abilities to put up a strong fight and hopes his Citroën will benefit from its own developments throughout the year.

“Hopefully we can do some more work on the car next season,” he told WRC.com. “I know that all the guys and girls here are very strong in terms of development and we need to continue improving things step by step.

“We know already that the C3 is a very fast and competitive car on every surface, but we also understand, especially with the new Škoda, that we will need to work even harder for next year.”

[Jarek Z]

New Skoda Fabia for old Raimund Baumschlager :)
https://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_brr_skoda_fabia_rs_rally2_raimund_baumschlag er_2023.html?fbclid=IwAR26UXpeezj1NRmlSPqaWQe7aUiQ bTUXL82gNqCapetnvN2PP5h9IWcqqQo

[RS]

New Skoda Fabia for old Raimund Baumschlager :)
https://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_brr_skoda_fabia_rs_rally2_raimund_baumschlag er_2023.html?fbclid=IwAR26UXpeezj1NRmlSPqaWQe7aUiQ bTUXL82gNqCapetnvN2PP5h9IWcqqQo

Is Raimund the oldest Red Bull ‘athlete’?

Nice livery and great photos! It seems Skoda are delivering the new cars slightly quicker than they initially aimed for.

[Sulland]

What are the production rate at Skoda Motorsport these days?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Anorher one into a new Fabia RS... Gus Greensmith has joined Toksport for WRC2 in 2023 !!

[Kenneth]

What are the production rate at Skoda Motorsport these days?

EWRC says that there are already 12 cars made, which is good. Iirc Skoda expected to make 5 cars by this time.

[Kenneth]

One piece of Fabia RS Rally2 found home in National Technical Museum in Prague. It's one of the two test prototypes, this one used for tarmac testing.

2350

[Fast Eddie WRC]

First defeat for the new Fabia RS by Fourmaux in a Ford Fiesta Rally2 on the Jànner Rally...

https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/79438-lkw-friends-on-the-road-jannerrallye-2023/

[RS]

It's not the first defeat, there was also a Rally in Hungary end of December..

Don't know how much to read into Janner. It was close, Wagner is a good driver on his home roads. On the other hand Formaux is a recent Rally1 level driver. Monte will tell us much more.

[Andre Oliveira]

And Munster won last stage with old spec.

[manthey]

And Munster won last stage with old spec.Which differences with Fourmaux?

[wyler]

Which differences with Fourmaux?

old rear wing and mirrors

[jcevc]

Chassis 8, same as Loubet used on Devoluy, not finished due technical problems. Also here a LOT of problems for Munster, whole history of this chassis is not the best one with approx 50% of retirement.

[WUff1]

Chassis 8, same as Loubet used on Devoluy, not finished due technical problems. Also here a LOT of problems for Munster, whole history of this chassis is not the best one with approx 50% of retirement.

Finally he was excluded due to wrong tire cutting.

[Kenneth]

Jos Verstappen switched to Škoda Fabia RS Rally2

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Jos Verstappen switched to Škoda Fabia RS Rally2

https://www.instagram.com/p/CnR1GIdIgrV/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[Andre Oliveira]

101

Iago Caamaño

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmYFUOoXwAEGutT?format=jpg&name=medium

[Andre Oliveira]

118

Rodrigo Zeballos

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmNItijWIAQZe7V?format=jpg&name=large

[Fast Eddie WRC]

RedGrey now running the Fiesta Rally2 for Virves in WRC2, as 2C have taken over the i20 Rally2.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/2c-makes-wrc-return-running-hyundais-wrc2-team/

Maybe they can also help develop the car.

[Andre Oliveira]

RedGrey still running Linnamäe’s Hyundai.

[Andre Oliveira]

Pics of Tuoho Häkkinen

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fmm94DFWABM0yai?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fmm94DFWAAAFPxE?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fmm94C-WAAM5kxA?format=jpg&name=large

[Gordini]

Who he is?

[wyler]

Who he is?

should be hannineh, as main developer.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Yaris Rally2 at Monte...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmxJTEEWABER9tQ?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmxJTEOWAAQrw-M?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmxJTEGXkAA93U0?format=jpg&name=large

[ictus]

Is there any topic without theese photos of the Yaris rally2?

[HKSjbg]

Yaris Rally2 at Monte...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmxJTEEWABER9tQ?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmxJTEOWAAQrw-M?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmxJTEGXkAA93U0?format=jpg&name=large

It looks a little better in tarmac spec, but I’m still not sure about it… I wonder if it will look alright once its in full TGR livery like the AP4 version.

I saw a GR Yaris up close at work today for the first time (as opposed to photos or from a distance driving past a Toyota dealership) and the width and height don’t look quite so out of proportion as I thought. But still, the bonnet height still makes the thing look a bit ungainly - that’s the only awkward part of it even in AP4 spec.

If it was a squished Corolla rather than a beefed up Yaris then I think this car could’ve actually looked good from the outset.

[Andre Oliveira]

Chassis 100

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fm2tC_IWAA4CX5c?format=jpg&name=large

[Jarek Z]

Some interesting news about Toyota GR Yaris Rally2 have been published on ERC website today:

Although this year will be focused on testing and development, the GR Yaris Rally2 will make its competition debut in Japanese championship – which permits cars homologated on a national basis – on the Shinshiro Rally from March 3-5. Other rallies are also possible this year.

Full article:
https://www.fiaerc.com/erc/news/erc/2023/latvala-reveals-erc-ambition-for-toyota---s-gr-yaris-rally2-/

P.S. Side note - I'm surprised that Toyota won ERC only 4 times.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Toyota with the GR Yaris will be a welcome new addition to the ranks of Rally2 car manufacturers. The first new one for a while and since we have lost VW, and previously Peugeot.

Pity it's still another year away from being ready for ERC/WRC2. If it had been ready now maybe the Fabia RS would've had some competition this season (in both performance and sales).

[Andre Oliveira]

https://twitter.com/ewrcresults/status/1620395140564254720?s=46&t=iYfbYsj4mBrufBnWVSZK1A

[Andre Oliveira]

Juho Hänninen today

https://www.ewrc-results.com/video/43812-toyota-yaris-rally-2-gravel-test-juho-haninen-fast-by-day-night-full-hd/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoCq8KPXwAAmS5E?format=jpg&name=medium

[Andre Oliveira]

Toyota is using a Fabia R5 to compare.

Pics of João Leonardo

https://scontent.fopo5-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/327790114_712588570529241_1677434122162924892_n.jp g?stp=dst-webp_e15_q70_s1180x1980_tt1_u&efg=eyJ1cmxnZW4iOiJ1cmxnZW5fZnJvbV91cmwifQ&_nc_cid=0&_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo5-2.fna&_nc_cat=106&_nc_ohc=IRQ9uZFrQQAAX8B3RLB&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&oh=00_AfD5T8pOz89WU8dxRsUq76EK-M8VGmuLDgTsRTSA7sbuzg&oe=6405228A
https://scontent.fopo5-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/326794838_726200892251483_960686231882785828_n.jpg ?stp=dst-webp_e15_q70_s1180x1980_tt1_u&efg=eyJ1cmxnZW4iOiJ1cmxnZW5fZnJvbV91cmwifQ&_nc_cid=0&_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo5-2.fna&_nc_cat=107&_nc_ohc=hF6599kSX1cAX-Boy_8&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&oh=00_AfDWI4Zm4Eo0IwYkRm5nHduk7grmWX1MJS7imwYRwUN8 RQ&oe=6404FD4D

[ictus]

How can the oldest spec Fabia be relevant??
Are thay aiming that low?

[Sulland]

Fabia R5 with all jokers and evolutions is still a competitive car, so not a bad place to start checking levels in different areas.

[Jarek Z]

According to the following article Renault / Alpine are unlikely to develop a Rally2 car. Their chief engineer Yann Paranthoën said:

“Personally, for sure I would like to do a Rally2 car, but to be honest it’s not possible in Alpine Racing as to do a Rally2 car actually we need a lot of budget [allocated to customer racing] as we need to do a lot of test session to be competitive. And to do a car to try and beat Škoda or Citroën, I think it’s very, very difficult.
And we don’t have the staff for this. We are only four or five engineers, actually only two designers, only two mechanics, so we know that we cannot do everything.
Alpine Racing is focused on Formula 1 and LMDh [World Endurance Championship] and I think Rally3 will be the last car for now.”

source:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/trying-and-going-off-in-renaults-new-clio-rally3/

[mknight]

In DirtFish interview Solberg says he wants to do more tarmac rounds cause the car is very good on tarmac.

Does he/Skoda doubt that it is very good on slow/rough gravel? Might also be that new car is likely not as reliable at first.

[ictus]

In DirtFish interview Solberg says he wants to do more tarmac rounds cause the car is very good on tarmac.

Does he/Skoda doubt that it is very good on slow/rough gravel? Might also be that new car is likely not as reliable at first.

It's a known issue with it overheating, so the slow/hot rounds might not be the best pick untill they sort it out

[TWRC]

How can the oldest spec Fabia be relevant??
Are thay aiming that low?
Maybe they could get their hands on this the fastest. Also, some drivers like the Evo version less than this one due to different handling, so getting the universally more liked car might be a better first step.

[AMSS]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/where-m-sport-wants-to-improve-its-fiesta-rally2/

this is optimistic to say the least... If they haven`t gotten the setup right until now I don`t think anyone can find it anymore, some fundamental changes are needed I think

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The Rally2 cars that have been the most successful in recent years (Fabia's, C3 and Polo) have all been from manufacturers/teams that have only that one car to concentrate on. I dont think this is a coincidence...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

“It’s probably fair to say we didn’t do a huge amount of development [on the Fiesta Rally2] last year, but we’ve got a lot coming this season.”

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2023/wrc2/m-sport-commits-to-fiesta-rally2-development/

[er88]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/where-m-sport-wants-to-improve-its-fiesta-rally2/

this is optimistic to say the least... If they haven`t gotten the setup right until now I don`t think anyone can find it anymore, some fundamental changes are needed I thinkYou have to laugh. The delusion is strong with Millener.

They can just throw Fourmaux under the bus I guess, rather than blaming the car come the end of the season

[br21]

It's a known issue with it overheating, so the slow/hot rounds might not be the best pick untill they sort it out

some source of this statement? as I never heard about it.

[sinepikohv]

some source of this statement? as I never heard about it.

Mikkelsen retired last year in Portugal and Sardegna due to engine failures. In both cases, the issue appeared to relate to the car ingesting sand after which it lost a cylinder and misfired. Also, in Sardegna and Portugal Kremer too retired due to engine failures. He also had the Fabia evo.

So perhaps it's just that Škoda doesn't want to risk with the same things happening before they can test it out on drivers who are not gunning for the title.

[br21]

Mikkelsen retired last year in Portugal and Sardegna due to engine failures. In both cases, the issue appeared to relate to the car ingesting sand after which it lost a cylinder and misfired. Also, in Sardegna and Portugal Kremer too retired due to engine failures. He also had the Fabia evo.

So perhaps it's just that Škoda doesn't want to risk with the same things happening before they can test it out on drivers who are not gunning for the title.

But how it's related to overheating of the new car?

[ictus]

some source of this statement? as I never heard about it.

I know I've heard/read about it regarding the Rally2 RS, but maybe they meant early development or the previous spec
pozdro ;)

[AnttiL]

Mikkelsen retired last year in Portugal and Sardegna due to engine failures. In both cases, the issue appeared to relate to the car ingesting sand after which it lost a cylinder and misfired. Also, in Sardegna and Portugal Kremer too retired due to engine failures. He also had the Fabia evo.

So perhaps it's just that Škoda doesn't want to risk with the same things happening before they can test it out on drivers who are not gunning for the title.

Mikkelsen’s engine failures were related to the new fuel?

[mknight]

Mikkelsen’s engine failures were related to the new fuel?

No, according to Skoda they were both caused by the same batch of faulty air intake parts.

[RS]

How can the oldest spec Fabia be relevant??
Are thay aiming that low?

Looks like Huttunen is better off with an old Fabia in Sweden than the latest Fiesta so if Toyota can get their car to better-than-old-Fabia level they will be doing pretty well. Besides there are not enough new Fabia RS around yet to be lending one to Toyota.

[mknight]

The slightly strange part was they seem to be using the original Fabia, not Evo. Evo seems quite easily available.

[Sulland]

It says something of the massive success of the Wrc2 class, when a driver can be competitive in a 2017 model car, that has done 40 rallies. It is of course well maintained, but still.

The Fabia R5 is still a very good car, and som drivers still prefer them to the Fabia Evo. That is also why they keep their value better than most RC2 cars!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Toyota’s 2024 Rally2 car faces its biggest test yet as it ramps up its gravel development program...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyota-rally2-car-still-to-face-its-toughest-test/

[manthey]

C3 EVO?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230221/b223a4824580ac69aa7ded316cba9985.jpg

[PLuto]

C3 EVO?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230221/b223a4824580ac69aa7ded316cba9985.jpg

Citroen is and was testing the cars in last months/year, but didnt made any upgrades yet...

[manthey]

Citroen is and was testing the cars in last months/year, but didnt made any upgrades yet...Seems a different front end

[Fast Eddie WRC]

New Yaris Rally2 asphalt test:
https://youtu.be/qLjggmhGG_M

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Kalle Rovanpera testing it today !
https://youtu.be/4z6vIUQ0fvw

[Sulland]

I hope the Yaris 3 cyl engine will match its 4 cyl competitors, and not become an achilles heel.

[Andre Oliveira]

Portuguese ‘test’ to Gus and Jonas started with a Xevi Pons surprise. Pons substituted Alejandro Mauro in last minute.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/80515-rali-vieira-do-minho-2023/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpxiDqQWcAcWdXY?format=jpg&name=large

[Jarek Z]

Wow! Adruzilo Lopes still in action! :)

[Andre Oliveira]

What a rally of Xevi Pons. Recce in an hurry to substitute Alejandro, start order 50th instead Gus 1st in a snow/gravel/mud event and great win! Last stages managed.

[Andre Oliveira]

Wow! Adruzilo Lopes still in action! :)

The "old" man is still one the best portuguese drivers. Incredible.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.ewrc-results.com/video/44092-rali-de-vieira-do-minho-2023-4k-snowgravel-action/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Miko Marczyk another driver getting a Fabia RS in 2023.

Is there anyone not switching from an old Fabia Evo ?! ;)

[Andre Oliveira]

Kajto

[Jarek Z]

Kajto

But he is currently comparing them. Have a look. Which one is better? ;)
https://rallypl.com/rajdy/kajetanowicz-przetestowal-nowa-rajdowke-klaruja-sie-plany-polaka-na-sezon-2023/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Gus Greensmith on the Fabia RS Rally2...

"The main thing you take from the car is it’s very, very easy to drive,” he said.

“They’ve obviously put a lot of work in, and having a lot of different drivers in the development of it, to create a car that has a very neutral balance.

“It doesn’t give you any surprises in terms of balance changes even if you make quite a big change or if the conditions change so yeah it’s a very, very solid car and I can see why it’s doing so well at the moment.”

Asked if he was able to jump into the Fabia RS Rally2 and feel happy straightaway, Greensmith added: “Yeah, it was easy to get into the car.

“To be honest it took probably a day to then kind of understand it and then the two-day test was where I started to understand what makes the car go quick and then on the rally we were very happy as well."

[Andre Oliveira]

GR Yaris Rally2 “concept”

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqSs6UBX0AI-_Ob?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqSs6UCX0AE2yLi?format=jpg&name=large

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rovanpera test input...

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2023/wrc2/toyota-completes-asphalt-tests-with-gr-yaris-rally2/

[Jarek Z]

Norihiko Katsuta in the new Toyota GR Yaris Rally2 is second overall after 6 stages. Heikki Kovalainen wins every single stage so far:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/80756-shinshiro-rally-2023/?s=403970

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Seems the Yaris Rally2 had a mechanical and didn't complete the final stage...

https://www.ewrc-results.com/entryinfo/80756-shinshiro-rally-2023/3653259/

[RS]

Norihiko Katsuta in the new Toyota GR Yaris Rally2 is second overall after 6 stages. Heikki Kovalainen wins every single stage so far:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/80756-shinshiro-rally-2023/?s=403970

hey, what? it’s homologated already?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

hey, what? it’s homologated already?

No, still in development running under local Japanese rules.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqdlPXwagAA2m5Y?format=jpg&name=large

[RS]

What do we know about the driver? Related to Takamoto or is everyone in Japan called either Katsuta or Arai?

[Jarek Z]

What do we know about the driver? Related to Takamoto or is everyone in Japan called either Katsuta or Arai?

He is 54 years old and is Takamoto Katsuta's father. It seems they are both not very fast. Maybe it's in the genes.

[focus206]

He is 54 years old and is Takamoto Katsuta's father. It seems they are both not very fast. Maybe it's in the genes.

Norihiko Katsuta is 9 times Japanese rally champion, 2021 being the last championship he won. So definitely not a slow driver by the Japanese championship standards, maybe even the fastest.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Citroen is and was testing the cars in last months/year, but didnt made any upgrades yet...

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2023/wrc2/citroen-plans-evolutions-for-c3-rally2/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Yaris Rally2 testing on all surfaces done and now it's about narrowing the homologation choices...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-two-reasons-toyota-wanted-rovanpera-to-test-rally2/

[fiscorpun]

Yaris Rally2 testing on all surfaces done and now it's about narrowing the homologation choices...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-two-reasons-toyota-wanted-rovanpera-to-test-rally2/

Ohhh boy! Any news on seeing this car on european/world stages this year or the homologation process is a "2024 only, fellas"?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqxqOAbWAAIxYwn?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqxqOAZXwAEurfy?format=jpg&name=large

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No win for the new Fabia RS in Fafe and a driver of the old model should've won. An i20 and C3 were also higher placed than the car of Marczyk in 4th.

Anything to worry about for Skoda ?

[Kenneth]

Lmao is that serious question?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lmao is that serious question?

Well yes as it's the biggest gravel rally so far and it has won on tarmac and snow.

[Hartusvuori]

Well yes as it's the biggest gravel rally so far and it has won on tarmac and snow.

There are drivers in the cars too.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

C3 Rally2 development to stay competitive - by WRCWings

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2023/03/13/how-to-improve-the-competitive-citroen-c3-rally2/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

There are drivers in the cars too.

Like young Heikkila in the old car vs ERC Champion Llarena in the new one...

[AnttiL]

Like young Heikkila in the old car vs ERC Champion Llarena in the new one...

Llarena didn’t win ERC. Everybody else lost it.
Same with Ingram.

Driver differences are bigger than car differences. Huttunen has won two events in Finland with the oldest Fabia R5.

[Typ85]

I think nothing to wonder about.. The best stage times dilivered young Sesks in his first full Rally2 season, also he won a stage, was second etc.. I see the biggest problem with the new Škodas in ERC so far - there are good drivers, but not (maybe not yet) pure winner type drivers in the new Škodas in the Erc... If Lukyanuk or Meeke had a chnance to drive this car here, the picture would be very different.. ;)

[Typ85]

somehow the reply on ''No win for the new Fabia RS in Fafe ...didnt work on my first post here..

[RS]

Well yes as it's the biggest gravel rally so far and it has won on tarmac and snow.

It’s a valid question but I agree with other comments that the best drivers were in the other cars here so wouldn’t want to draw too many conclusions.

My impression is that the potential of the new one is higher with an aggressive driver (Gryazin, Solberg). Mexico this weekend will be interesting with Solberg in the new one and Lindholm and Gryazin in the old one!

[Jarek Z]

Like young Heikkila in the old car vs ERC Champion Llarena in the new one...


Llarena didn’t win ERC. Everybody else lost it.


I see the biggest problem with the new Škodas in ERC so far - there are good drivers, but not (maybe not yet) pure winner type drivers in the new Škodas in the Erc... If Lukyanuk or Meeke had a chnance to drive this car here, the picture would be very different.. ;)

I think I can agree here. The best, first league drivers in Fafe were not driving the new Fabia. Llarena may be the reigning champion, but with him you never know if he's going to win or finish 7th. He is not (yet?) a driver like Mikkelsen, Basso, Rossetti or Bouffier (not to mention Lukyanuk ;)) that can go anywhere and fight for the win in each rally. But let's wait. Something tells me that this season is going to be exciting :)

[PLuto]

Llarena didn’t win ERC. Everybody else lost it.

Who is "everybody else"? Who from the drivers last year was pure faster than Efren in ERC last year and lost it?

[AnttiL]

Who is "everybody else"? Who from the drivers last year was pure faster than Efren in ERC last year and lost it?

"Lost" was maybe not as fitting to Llarena's opponents as it was to Ingram's, but in 2022 it was more about faster drivers not doing full seasons and WRC stars skipping the series altogether. Also three rallies were won by drivers who didn't do any other events. In addition to Llarena, only two drivers completed a full season.

[PLuto]

"Lost" was maybe not as fitting to Llarena's opponents as it was to Ingram's, but in 2022 it was more about faster drivers not doing full seasons and WRC stars skipping the series altogether. Also three rallies were won by drivers who didn't do any other events. In addition to Llarena, only two drivers completed a full season.

There were more drivers doing full season (or almost full and stopped/missing after crash or loosing the chance to win). I think it was clear that Efren was able to fight for top places on almost every race and he deserved the win. Yes, there were not big names like Mikkelsen on Lukyanuk in previous years, but from the drivers who were doing the season, he was the best. And there were not so bad drivers, sometimes multichampions in national championships...

[Sulland]

It was also Llarenas first rally in the new Skoda, need more time to get it right I guess.

But level of competition has not been this high in ERC for many years, if ever, so that is also a factor.

[Tom K]

I asked (before the rally) Marczyk about this RS, and he told that RS is really different car and needs package of setups. For sure it is and will be fast car but driver has to adapt. He was in Fafe for test RS and wake up after winter before WRC, but if he was there to score points in ERC, he would choose old car.

Llarena was very consistent, being on the podium or close to it. And to reverse deficit and win Azores with Moura on his land needs some proper skills.

[AnttiL]

There were more drivers doing full season (or almost full and stopped/missing after crash or loosing the chance to win). I think it was clear that Efren was able to fight for top places on almost every race and he deserved the win. Yes, there were not big names like Mikkelsen on Lukyanuk in previous years, but from the drivers who were doing the season, he was the best. And there were not so bad drivers, sometimes multichampions in national championships...

All I can say is that we will see this season how Llarena does with more competition.

[Sal yet again]

His Fafe result was better than last year and he should be strong in the Canary Islands but after that it will be interesting. Not sure if he is doing the main Spanish championship to keep him match fit this year either.

[Sulland]

I was asking (before the rally) Marczyk about this RS, and he told that RS is really different car and needs package of setups. For sure it is and will be fast car but driver has to adapt. He was in Fafe for test RS and wake up after winter before WRC, but if he was there to score points in ERC, he would choose old car.

Llarena was very consistent, being on the podium or close to it. And to reverse deficit and win Azores with Moura on his land needs some proper skills.

Seems like Skoda took a Polo and improved it, and got the RS.
The Polo does not fit all, especially drivers that do not spend a lot of hours getting the setup 100% right.
The Fabia R5 and the evo is much easier to get to 98% quickly, and with much less fuss.
But if you get the Polo right, and is a good driver, it is still one of the best cars in the class.

We need more rallies with many drivers at the levers before we know how good the RS is as a package.

[AnttiL]

His Fafe result was better than last year

Based on final result yeah, but last year he won three stages.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Llarena explains...

"We are losing time in the slow corners, we have no traction, for me it’s a disaster. In some parts I am pushing like hell but I was losing a lot of time in the slow corners.

“Honestly I tried my best, I was absolutely flat out, unfortunately we were not fast. We were not comfortable with the car, we were always out of the line. You can push 200 per cent but you are losing time in every corner, [so it’s] very disappointing.”

[RS]

Llarena explains...

"We are losing time in the slow corners, we have no traction, for me it’s a disaster. In some parts I am pushing like hell but I was losing a lot of time in the slow corners.

“Honestly I tried my best, I was absolutely flat out, unfortunately we were not fast. We were not comfortable with the car, we were always out of the line. You can push 200 per cent but you are losing time in every corner, [so it’s] very disappointing.”

If you look at times of all MRF crews, their tyres seemed to work much better on Saturday than Sunday. On Saturday Llarena was running in a different road position to other guys and his times didn’t compare well to Sesks with same car and same tyres.

[PLuto]

New Fabia RS Rally2 car is different from the old one. You need to find correct setups, you need to adapt to the different driving style. I think now you can understand why Oliver Solberg is so much testing, same like other WRC2 drivers of Skoda...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ireland, the former heartland of the Fiesta R5, is now dominated by the Polo, i20 and lately the Citroen C3.

On the current West Cork Intl Rally the highest placed Ford is a Mk2 Escort !

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Sounds like M-Sport are determined to fight back and improve the Fiesta..

Asked how much of the British championship Adrien Fourmaux will do, Wilson said: “It’s still up for discussion but there’s no question we want to improve and make the car even more competitive, so for sure we will definitely do the next round.

“We’ve got some tests planned in Ireland coming up quite soon so we want to just try and basically make sure we can keep the Rally2 Fiesta competitive.

“We want to try and give Adrien as much seat time as possible and keep on developing and improving the car.”

[PLuto]

Sounds like M-Sport are determined to fight back and improve the Fiesta..

Asked how much of the British championship Adrien Fourmaux will do, Wilson said: “It’s still up for discussion but there’s no question we want to improve and make the car even more competitive, so for sure we will definitely do the next round.

“We’ve got some tests planned in Ireland coming up quite soon so we want to just try and basically make sure we can keep the Rally2 Fiesta competitive.

“We want to try and give Adrien as much seat time as possible and keep on developing and improving the car.”

Developing and improving the car? 4 years later than it should be...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Developing and improving the car? 4 years later than it should be...

A financially-devasating pandemic, runnng a WRC Team and creating a new Rally1 car all had an impact on this.

Plus most other Rally2 manufacturers only had that car to concentrate on (Skoda, VW Polo, Citroen C3).

Edit: Fourmaux is confident of the Fiesta's potential...

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2023/wrc2/fourmaux-backs-fiesta-rally2s-potental/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

New Yaris Rally2 tarmac test...

https://youtu.be/AJR8fhnscHU

[Jarek Z]

Good to see Kris Meeke again :)
https://www.facebook.com/motorsportskoda/videos/966018954322829/

[RS]

Big week for new Fabia RS Rally2. Kopecky finally makes a start in one at the first event of the Czech Championship (there was an idea he’d start in one at Barum last year but it didn’t happen), Mikkelsen also makes his first international-ish start on Azores and Loeb gets a go too.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Big week for new Fabia RS Rally2. Kopecky finally makes a start in one at the first event of the Czech Championship (there was an idea he’d start in one at Barum last year but it didn’t happen), Mikkelsen also makes his first international-ish start on Azores and Loeb gets a go too.

Kopecky could probably win in a Czech event driving a Skoda 130 ! ;)

Azores Rally may be more testing for the new car with Moura and Solans both driving the old Fabia Evo...

[RS]

Kopecky could probably win in a Czech event driving a Skoda 130 ! ;)

Azores Rally may be more testing for the new car with Moura and Solans both driving the old Fabia Evo...

Well much as I'd like to see Kopecky in an old 130, and yes he usually does win, guys like Mares and Pech are pretty quick at home so it won't be easy.

Toksport have a pretty stellar lineup for Azores (WRC1 worthy) but yes, Azores should be one of the best type of events for the old car being so tight and narrow.

[mknight]

I wonder who is paying for the Azores starts. I don't think any of those two are bringing funds.

Azores organizers to try to get the rally back to ERC?
Skoda to try to.dispell any doubts about the car on narrow roads or to get more testing/development feedback?
Toksport to get PR? (least likely imo)

[mousti]

The liveries of Mikkelsen and Loeb are showing enough who 's funding it

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

[mknight]

The liveries of Mikkelsen and Loeb are showing enough who 's funding it

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

Yep.

I saw them an hour after I wrote the post.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

1-2-3 for the Fabia Rally2 on the opening stage in Azores...

[AnttiL]

1-2-3 for the Fabia Rally2 on the opening stage in Azores...

Driver differences bigger than car differences

“…”

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Driver differences bigger than car differences

“…”

OC Veiby also beating Solans and Moura ...

[AnttiL]

OC Veiby also beating Solans and Moura ...

Yes?

[mknight]

Pretty impressive by Loeb so far, then again he led every rally he was in last year, so it should mean WRC-winning level. Mikkelsen has more experience here and with the car, but Loeb is also on different tires.

With regards to cars imo the only thing we can say is that new car is likely at least as fast as old.
Veiby and Cais probably best to use for comparison and they are same or faster than Solans and Moura.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Loeb says how nice the car is to drive while Mikkelsen said he's not so happy and surprised how fast Loeb is despite just getting into it.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Yes?

Veiby's first time in the car vs two top drivers.

Cais also 0.3s off making it a 1-2-3-4 overall.

[AnttiL]

Veiby's first time in the car vs two top drivers.

Cais also 0.3s off making it a 1-2-3-4 overall.

But I would say Veiby is on a higher level than Solans or Moura. Veiby has won in WRC2.

[dimviii]

where we can find drivers quotes from stages?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

where we can find drivers quotes from stages?

I watched the live stream on RTP Azores who interviewed the drivers at the end of the final stage today.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

But I would say Veiby is on a higher level than Solans or Moura. Veiby has won in WRC2.

Solans has beaten Veiby on the first two stages of day 2.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Well much as I'd like to see Kopecky in an old 130, and yes he usually does win, guys like Mares and Pech are pretty quick at home so it won't be easy.



Bang on.. Pech leads.

Mares 2nd leads Kopecky in the old Fabia Evo !

[Jarek Z]

One VW Polo R5 down. Gino Bux had a very serious crash at Rallye des Ardennes 2023 last weekend.

Before:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/769418/?entry=3682434

After:
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=591115249713710&set=a.549036403921595

Co-driver is quite OK, driver in hospital with broken ribs and injured spine.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Skoda Azores recap...

https://youtu.be/xtVH54YsBYo

Nice comments from Loeb on the Rally2 car.

[PLuto]

A financially-devasating pandemic, runnng a WRC Team and creating a new Rally1 car all had an impact on this.

Plus most other Rally2 manufacturers only had that car to concentrate on (Skoda, VW Polo, Citroen C3).

Edit: Fourmaux is confident of the Fiesta's potential...

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2023/wrc2/fourmaux-backs-fiesta-rally2s-potental/

These are only excuses. Rally2 market should be important for M-Sport and they can make a good money from it, but understimated the situation. Car was not really prepared for the outings when it debuted (mainly due to lack of test mileage and also drivers who were testing it) and since that time not so bid development was made. The weakest part of the car is without any doubts the engine.

[PLuto]

I wonder who is paying for the Azores starts. I don't think any of those two are bringing funds.

Azores organizers to try to get the rally back to ERC?

They dont need to spend money to FIA and promoter, so they have used them for drivers...

[PLuto]

But I would say Veiby is on a higher level than Solans or Moura. Veiby has won in WRC2.

Winning WRC2 round doesnt mean that you are better :)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

These are only excuses. Rally2 market should be important for M-Sport and they can make a good money from it, but understimated the situation. Car was not really prepared for the outings when it debuted (mainly due to lack of test mileage and also drivers who were testing it) and since that time not so bid development was made. The weakest part of the car is without any doubts the engine.

You say excuses but they are real reasons. And having other priorities are genuine too.

And who would prefer M-Sport making a great Rally2 car but leaving WRC1 down to 2 Teams ?

[Walach]

It is actually a valid point.
Rally2, rally3, rally4 and rally5 all can bring money back.
Everyone can see the M-Sport pattern. They make the car early to be first on the market and have profit (no matter how underdeveloped the car is, like fiesta rally3). Then comes the competition, M-Sport car fall behind because it is not developed anymore and becomes inferior.
Rinse and repeat.

It happened with original Fiesta R5, it happened with Fiesta Rally4/5, and I wonder what can possibly happen now that Renault is releasing Clio Rally3.

All of these are customer oriented cars that can bring money, and all of these were quite quickly abandoned by M-Sport due to "other priorities." No wonder customers are choosing other brands if this is the approach, is it? After all, the car sales numbers of aforementioned cars dont lie.

You could argue that WRC1 is actually down to two teams anyway, given how much of a threat they are to Toyota and Hyundai in the fight for titles and not just single rally wins.

[ouvreur]

It is actually a valid point.
Rally2, rally3, rally4 and rally5 all can bring money back.
Everyone can see the M-Sport pattern. They make the car early to be first on the market and have profit (no matter how underdeveloped the car is, like fiesta rally3). Then comes the competition, M-Sport car fall behind because it is not developed anymore and becomes inferior.
Rinse and repeat.

It happened with original Fiesta R5, it happened with Fiesta Rally4/5, and I wonder what can possibly happen now that Renault is releasing Clio Rally3.

All of these are customer oriented cars that can bring money, and all of these were quite quickly abandoned by M-Sport due to "other priorities." No wonder customers are choosing other brands if this is the approach, is it? After all, the car sales numbers of aforementioned cars dont lie.

You could argue that WRC1 is actually down to two teams anyway, given how much of a threat they are to Toyota and Hyundai in the fight for titles and not just single rally wins.

I think that's an overly harsh assessment. M-Sport are essentially a private company, reliant on profit from car and parts sales, competing against the motorsport departments of OEM manufacturers for whom profitability would be nice, but doesn't really matter so much. Simply put, M-Sport and their Polish subsidiary have to make a profit on every car and part (FIA price capped items aside) that leaves their factory. For others, it just isn't important. If you judge M-Sport by their standards, of course they look weak. But when Skoda decide rallying doesn't matter to them any more, how many more Fabia Rally2s do you think will roll out of Mlada Boleslav?

Even if what you describe really is M-Sport's business model, can you blame them? It's pretty smart. Get in early, provide a good, reliable product that's decent value for money, sell plenty of them, then when the manufacturers come along with their huge budgets and (arguably) better / more developed cars, concentrate on being the first with the next product. Instead of trying - and likely failing - to play Skoda and Hyundai at their own game, they stick to what they're good at. Their projects are never abandoned - you can still ring them up and they'll help you get parts for your '05 Focus, Fiesta S2000 or Mk1 Fiesta R5. Their customer service is legendary. Try doing that with a 2005 Impreza world rally car, a Peugeot 207 S2000, or a Citroen DS3 R5.

At the end of the day, for the majority of their customers, it's a hobby. They're making rally cars, not pacemakers or firefighting equipment, if they break more easily or don't perform as well as the competition, it isn't the end of the world. I don't see why some people get so touchy about it - it's an open market, nobody puts a gun to a customer's head and insists they buy a Fiesta of any description.

With all of that said, it would be nice for the market and the sport to have M-Sport back to their competitive best. They seem to have turned a corner with the Puma, and they're working on upgrades for the Fiesta Rally2.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I listened to a podcast recently featuring Matt Edwards the 3x BRC Champion and rally driver tutor.

It was fascinating how he confirmed that all Rally2 cars are excellent and very fast (yes even the Fiesta !) and that it's only drivers at the very top level that extract the last 1% of performance that can find any real difference.

For the mamy average and amateur drivers it's more about cost, servicing and parts availability than pure performance.

[PLuto]

I listened to a podcast recently featuring Matt Edwards the 3x BRC Champion and rally driver tutor.

It was fascinating how he confirmed that all Rally2 cars are excellent and very fast (yes even the Fiesta !) and that it's only drivers at the very top level that extract the last 1% of performance that can find any real difference.

For the mamy average and amateur drivers it's more about cost, servicing and parts availability than pure performance.

Yes, all cars are very similar and it is mainly on the driver. Fiesta is strong car with quite good chassis and suspension. But its weakness is engine, since beginning...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Yes, all cars are very similar and it is mainly on the driver. Fiesta is strong car with quite good chassis and suspension. But its weakness is engine, since beginning...

And a strong car engine can often help an average driver make up for their own weakness...

[PLuto]

And a strong car engine can often help an average driver make up for their own weakness...

No, strong car engine can help to be on same speed like drivers with cars of other brands, especially on types of stages where engine performance is crucial...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No, strong car engine can help to be on same speed like drivers with cars of other brands, especially on types of stages where engine performance is crucial...

I'm talking about why many drivers prefer other cars over the Fiesta. They want a strong engine over anything.

[PLuto]

I'm talking about why many drivers prefer other cars over the Fiesta. They want a strong engine over anything.

It is more things together. But mainly - Fiesta is slower than Skoda, Hyundai or Citroen. And other cars are making development, M-Sport nothing. So difference is bigger and bigger...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No need to ditch the Fiesta say ex-ITRC Champion...

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/motor-sport/there-was-no-need-for-me-to-ditch-rally-winning-ford-fiesta-says-garry-jennings/205396549.html

[satnav]

M-Sport are just after having a tarmac test in Ireland with the Fiesta, Fourmaux driving.

[wwbroe]

Je hoeft de Fiesta niet te dumpen, zeg ex-ITRC-kampioen...

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/motor-sport/there-was-no-need-for -me-to-ditch-rally-winnende-ford-fiesta-zegt-garry-jennings/205396549.html (https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/motor-sport/there-was-no-need-for-me-to-ditch-rally-winning-ford-fiesta-says-garry-jennings/205396549.html)

Maybe he better changed car, because his stage times show that the Fiesta is not able to follow the other makes.;)

[Jarek Z]

Maybe he better changed car, because his stage times show that the Fiesta is not able to follow the other makes.;)

Yes. I don't know if it is the driver or the car that is slow, but Jennings' best stage time in this rally was 9th...:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/entryinfo/80426-milburn-concrete-circuit-of-ireland-rally-2023/3684553/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Jennings is longer at the top level but this also makes the point that the Fiesta is still fine for the lower levels. Too many ordinary guys are jumping on the Polo, i20, C3-bandwagon after a top driver wins an event in one.

And Matt Edwards matched the Polo and i20 of Devine and Moffett on a recent Irish event in a Fiesta Rally2 after not driving a Rally2 car since last July...

https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/80329-midland-moto-stages-rally-2023/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Polo still getting developed...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/lack-of-vw-involvement-not-stopping-polo-development/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Latvala - Toyota benchmarking Fabia RS for its Yaris Rally2

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyota-benchmarking-its-rally2-against-skoda/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fourmaux says for Croatia the Fiesta Rally2 has new homologated parts in the diff, but engine upgrade is still to come later In he year.

[becher]

Yes, all cars are very similar and it is mainly on the driver. Fiesta is strong car with quite good chassis and suspension. But its weakness is engine, since beginning...

But why? Is the engine worse than in the old car or did the others make such a huge step?

[RS]

500th Fabia Rally2 car delivered to Delta Rally for the Italian Championshio

https://www.skoda-motorsport.com/en/bestseller-from-mlada-boleslav-skoda-motorsport-delivers-record-500th-skoda-fabia-in-rally2-specification/?utm_source=twitter

[manthey]

500th Fabia Rally2 car delivered to Delta Rally for the Italian Championshio

https://www.skoda-motorsport.com/en/bestseller-from-mlada-boleslav-skoda-motorsport-delivers-record-500th-skoda-fabia-in-rally2-specification/?utm_source=twitterWow! Insane numbers!

Do we know also the total production for Fiesta? Citroen Ds3/c3?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Interesting to see the Citroen C3 with its upgrades currently leading in Croatia vs the Skoda Fabia RS army.

Maybe the driver (Rossell) is key but also the Fabia RS isn't perfect...

[Jarek Z]

Yes, it's good to see that many Rally2 cars are competitive. I hope that Ford will keep up with them soon. It doesn't look good at the moment with Formaux and Munster in 8th and 10th place after 4 stages in Croatia.

[Andre Oliveira]

Wow! Insane numbers!

Do we know also the total production for Fiesta? Citroen Ds3/c3?


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqxqOAbWAAIxYwn?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqxqOAZXwAEurfy?format=jpg&name=large


3 pages ago.

[manthey]

3 pages ago.Sorry I forgot

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Russell's upgraded Citroen C3 Rally2 has inflicted the first defeat on the Fabia RS in WRC2 2023 in Croatia.

(This time on speed, unlike Monte).


,

[manthey]

Russell's upgraded Citroen C3 Rally2 has inflicted the first defeat on the Fabia RS in WRC2 2023 in Croatia.

(This time on speed, unlike Monte).


,

..and new jokers are coming for C3