[WRC] News & Rumours 2019

[dimviii]

Paddon interview
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/motorsport/110745746/hayden-paddon-plans-for-life-after-rallying-following-world-rally-championship-snub

[AnttiL]

WRC Snow round in Canada? https://rallypromoter.ca/rpac-one-year-update/

At the same time, FIA see the Sweden historic event a problem for running the rally https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/141775/historic-rally-row-threatens-sweden-wrc-future

[janvanvurpa]

WRC Snow round in Canada? https://rallypromoter.ca/rpac-one-year-update/

At the same time, FIA see the Sweden historic event a problem for running the rally https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/141775/historic-rally-row-threatens-sweden-wrc-future

Antti, the organisation 'rallypromoter.ca" is an organisation consisting of mostly 1 guy who has driven maybe 6 or 7 rallies ever ..little local ones with 13-17 cars, co-driven in a bunch of rallies, and has been an organiser locally of events in his home area..again mostly very small rallies with 13-40 local cars. he has been "media manager" for the Canadian ASN....which means he writes press releases... his other employment is unknown except a time as "used car salesman"...

There are some others involved, mainly photographers..

I cannot imagine how in the world that a couple or three complete amateurs with so little experience and with no population base, and barely enough manpower to organise small events could possibly think they could organise a WRC event.....some people more local have suggested that maybe it's just a "cool" way to get other optimistic fans to pay for him to travel for free and watch some WRC events since he seems to have no other source of income...but that is just what a few locals have "wondered aloud"..

I would not place any bets on it ever happening.

[bomber21]

Estonia to host promotional rally with WRC entries
https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/march-2019/rally-estonia/page/6150--12-12-.html

[Gregor-y]

What Canadian event would even be a good showcase/test? I've only been to Tall Pines in late November but it's very small compared to the US events I regularly attend.

[OHL]

What Canadian event would even be a good showcase/test? I've only been to Tall Pines in late November but it's very small compared to the US events I regularly attend.

Perce Neige on the Eastern side and Big White on the Western side could be options. Perce Neige would struggle for hotels for everybody though.
It seems more likely that if Canada were to host a WRC round in the present day it would be in British Columbia. Having said that, Rally Quebec could also be an option with good stages and Quebec City not far away. It was a WRC round in the 70's but I don't know the current state today.

[flykas]

Estonia to host promotional rally with WRC entries
https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/march-2019/rally-estonia/page/6150--12-12-.html

What is a WRC Promotional event? Does it mean that there will be many wrc drivers, or just a few like there were last year in Latvia. Also could that mean that we might see Estonia as an official round of WRC in the future?

[AnttiL]

This promotional event is a new concept. Candidate event means the event could become an official WRC round the following year. This is probably not yet possible for Estonia, but this solution is a win-win with interest in the country and also for the teams and drivers as a test for Finland during the summer break.

[HenryEST]

What is a WRC Promotional event? Does it mean that there will be many wrc drivers, or just a few like there were last year in Latvia. Also could that mean that we might see Estonia as an official round of WRC in the future?

Means at least 1 car from each team.

[cali]

This promotional event is a new concept. Candidate event means the event could become an official WRC round the following year. This is probably not yet possible for Estonia, but this solution is a win-win with interest in the country and also for the teams and drivers as a test for Finland during the summer break.But I think we will never get a chance to have a WRC rally in Estonia. As I understood Oliver Ciesla said quite clearly that the plan is to expand outside of Europe.

[Allez Andruet]

But I think we will never get a chance to have a WRC rally in Estonia. As I understood Oliver Ciesla said quite clearly that the plan is to expabd outside of Europe.

It doesn't mean the European rounds would be set in stone.

[tommeke_B]

I bet that in a few years we'll see Poland back, or Estonia in, at the cost of Tour de Corse, Sardinia and/or Germany.

[Tarmop]

Well, all the manuf. present with at least one car (could be more) is quite a statement if the event succeeds and teams are happy, last year they were...

Bot what else is great from that news, is that nobody wants to shorten the events anymore by day or half a day.

[AnttiL]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/141864/fia-in-major-crackdown-on-rally-fan-behaviour

FIA tries to stop badly behaving spectators. One solution is to issue a virtual chicane on a location where spectators are in a dangerous place. So either you back off or see the cars at walking speed...and the stage doesn't have to be canceled, which is always unfair to the spectators who are in a safe place.

[tommeke_B]

If they use the same standards everywhere, we could see a very slow Monte Carlo next year...

[pantealex]

Means at least 1 car from each team.

What I heard in Sweden was not like that, many teams are again considering Autoglym rally in Finland but we will see...

[tommeke_B]

Why not both?

[AnttiL]

Why not both?

Can’t do two rallies in one weekend

[tommeke_B]

Can’t do two rallies in one weekend

Yes, but they're not in one weekend. ;)

[AnttiL]

Autoglym 12-13th July
Rally Estonia 12-14th July

[tommeke_B]

Aha, ok. So the calendar on ewrc-results.com has a small mistake, Autoglym Rally is one week earlier there... ;)

[EstWRC]

What I heard in Sweden was not like that, many teams are again considering Autoglym rally in Finland but we will see...

Well, Aava confirmed on Friday, when they signed the contracts with Ciesla, that all the 4 teams will be here with one driver from each team.

Theres a long interview with Ciesla in estonian newspaper, first i thought i will translate the whole thing but then i changed my mind and i will point out the most interesting parts.

- says that in long perspective this contract with Rally Estonia doesnt mean much, and at the moment it isnt possible because the priority is to go outside europe: Africa, Asia, North-America and Middle-East.

- the feedback last year from teams was very positive and thats why they decided to do it again and bigger this time. the roads are similar to finland and the teams can do good preparation.

- about the idea to have rotation in the calendar: he says the idea is very good, because we could get more countries and events in the calendar, but for the organisers it is very difficult because they have to keep their money, sponsors, and workers also the year they are not having the rally. so, great idea but not sustainable.

- his ideal goal is to have 16 rallies on the calendar but says that they have the same opinion with teams, their budgets are limited.

- since he mentioned that he wants to have 16 rallies, the reporter right away asks if it would mean shorter rallies? Ciesla: no, not at all. We have done the calculations many times and it wont change the costs for the teams. They still would have to bring as many parts to the rallies as now and be there as many days as now. For the organisers it would mean less costs but also less profit because there are less stages. At the moment this plan doesnt interest no one anymore because they cant see how it would be profitable.

- in the end theres a question: how we would get more car makers into the series? he doesnt say anything special there, points out that they have to make the series very attractive to them. Also says that they have to go to the countries where we have big car markets and hints also to the hybrid technology.

[Rally Power]

Among so many new possible WRC venues, I’m amazed how this one wasn’t yet caught on Ciesla’s radar…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FFpcqH0TgY

[rp]

- the roads are similar to finland and the teams can do good preparation.



No, the roads are not similar! If you want to prepare perfectly for Rally Finland the only right testing event would be Autoglym Rally at the same weekend, but of course it´s good for the Estonians to see works teams there...

[EstWRC]

same shit, different year.....

[Oops!]

Among so many new possible WRC venues, I’m amazed how this one wasn’t yet caught on Ciesla’s radar…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FFpcqH0TgY

A sort of mini Putin!?

[Tarmop]

Roads are similar, especially with added jumps, surface though, is another story. Still, Tänak won both, Torn in JWRC won both, Paddon was by far the best Hyundai, taking 4th with the setups he tested in RE, Huttunen and Pietarinen were the fastest non-WRC in RE, took 1-2 in WRC2 Finland.

[kure91]

Among so many new possible WRC venues, I’m amazed how this one wasn’t yet caught on Ciesla’s radar…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FFpcqH0TgY

I can´t help myself but it reminded me this gem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olT8v8yMUEU :) But when its mostly the money who decides Central Asian rally could be real adition to championship :)

[br21]

I don't know this year's itinerary of autoglym but Ralkt Estonia will be most likely similar to last year, so special shakedown for WRC teams (also special test days before), also services very often (every 2 stages almost) so possibility to test a lot before and during the rally. So it attract the teams a lot. Roads are quite similar regarding the setup you need to use, surface little bit more loose but not that much

[AnttiL]

Autoglym will have 10 stages this year with two services, all during one day.

[jparker]

Any news or rumors about Skoda WRC project?
What about Proton?

[masa90]

Interested to see that will there be any wrc cars on the Autoglym Rally. Same weekend as that Estonian rally. Seemingly teams will go there. Could be fun to see that rally aswell, though Autoglym would be cool since it is so close to where I live.

[mknight]

Roads are similar, especially with added jumps, surface though, is another story. Still, Tänak won both, Torn in JWRC won both, Paddon was by far the best Hyundai, taking 4th with the setups he tested in RE, Huttunen and Pietarinen were the fastest non-WRC in RE, took 1-2 in WRC2 Finland.

That's what I thought about immediately. While Paddon was fastest Hyundai also the year before, the difference between Tanak and his teammates was somewhat surprising. Especially when Latvala was so fast the year before.

Breen didn't have a good rally though, but it was mostly due to the early mistake on friday which put him into road cleaning position.

[AnttiL]

That's what I thought about immediately. While Paddon was fastest Hyundai also the year before, the difference between Tanak and his teammates was somewhat surprising. Especially when Latvala was so fast the year before.



So Tänak was faster than Latvala and Lappi only because he did Rally Estonia? I mean, it was the same all year and Tänak had plenty of testing days in Finland.

[Tarmop]

He used his RE setup and the results was there. His pace was for sure magnificent like it has been in recent time, but still hewas humiliating his teammates, at their home event, which they both were leadingin 2017.

[mknight]

Finland was where I was expecting the 3 to be closest, specially since the differences are often quite small there (in terms of seconds). In the end up to that point of the season it was kind of the biggest (unexpected) outclassing. It was definitely not the same all year, early on Latvala or Tanak were often out before you could compare anything and Lappi was doing those rallies for first time in wrc (sometimes even for the first time ever). After Finland there were big differences in Germany and GB but not really in Spain and certainly not in Australia or Turkey.

Off course it's impossible to say how important Rally Estonia was for that, but it's a fact that he did it and the others did not.

[lnvs]

Roads are similar, especially with added jumps, surface though, is another story. Still, Tänak won both, Torn in JWRC won both, Paddon was by far the best Hyundai, taking 4th with the setups he tested in RE, Huttunen and Pietarinen were the fastest non-WRC in RE, took 1-2 in WRC2 Finland.They do great setups in any country for Finland when someone wants to pay teams for testing. Roads are not similar and some added jumps that is just absurd. Main reason to choose RE over some testing in Finland is money. :laugh:

[Myrvold]

They do great setups in any country for Finland when someone wants to pay teams for testing. Roads are not similar and some added jumps that is just absurd. Main reason to choose RE over some testing in Finland is money. :laugh:

If the question is "Testing in Finland" or "Rally Estonia" it is Rally Estonia. Quite simply because: It will not count towards the testing days (Toyota are free close to HQ in Finland.)

[EstWRC]

They do great setups in any country for Finland when someone wants to pay teams for testing. Roads are not similar and some added jumps that is just absurd. Main reason to choose RE over some testing in Finland is money. :laugh:

what a load of BS!!!


some of you Finns are acting here like kids whose candy has been taken away.

[AnttiL]

With all honesty I'm super happy for Estonians to have this event. You have a star driver and a lot of enthusiasm for the sport and at this moment it's impossible to get a WRC round. Having this promotional event is a great solution for you. I say this even though it means Autoglym rally which runs very close to my home won't have WRC teams. :)

But I still can't agree that Tänak found his 2018 pace only through testing in Rally Estonia.

[Tarmop]

They do great setups in any country for Finland when someone wants to pay teams for testing. Roads are not similar and some added jumps that is just absurd. Main reason to choose RE over some testing in Finland is money. :laugh:


There`s quite a diversity of roads with different characteristics and surfaces in that small country, don`t know, if you are familiar with all of them? I have driven across Scandinavia for several times, on very different roads, in the southern part, in the northern part, in the middle, including where NORF takes place...In Southern EU also quite many thousands of country roads. I agree, that added crests are stupid, but maybe there is something when it is done by a former WRC driver? Have a look at br21 post, who i think is more familiar with modernday rallying than you and me. Me for sure. I also think that many, who said it out loud, that this helps for rally Finland, did not lie. You can think what you like, Finland has a WRC event soon after, so i can`t see any problems why one should be so upset. :D

Tänak`s pace in Rally Finland isn`t explained with him participating in RE, ofc not, BUT he used the setup he developed for him there and it clearlly worked.

[Allez Andruet]

That version of Tänak we all saw last year in Finland would have dominated the rally even with a bicycle. He was that good. I still think it's one of the best performances this sport has ever seen.

[lnvs]

There`s quite a diversity of roads with different characteristics and surfaces in that small country, don`t know, if you are familiar with all of them? I have driven across Scandinavia for several times, on very different roads, in the southern part, in the northern part, in the middle, including where NORF takes place...In Southern EU also quite many thousands of country roads. I agree, that added crests are stupid, but maybe there is something when it is done by a former WRC driver? Have a look at br21 post, who i think is more familiar with modernday rallying than you and me. Me for sure. I also think that many, who said it out loud, that this helps for rally Finland, did not lie. You can think what you like, Finland has a WRC event soon after, so i can`t see any problems why one should be so upset. :D

Tänak`s pace in Rally Finland isn`t explained with him participating in RE, ofc not, BUT he used the setup he developed for him there and it clearlly worked.I'm sorry if Estonia has some Finnish style roads. I just haven't seen them there. Why they don't use them in rallying if those roads exist? :D

I'm not upset about this, just think it's funny how some can say those Estonian roads are like in Finland and it's best testing place for Finland. They would instantly choose some Rally in Finland (like Autoglym) if they had same benefits.

[Rally Power]

A sort of mini Putin!?

Probably a bit kitchier...


This promotional event is a new concept. Candidate event means the event could become an official WRC round the following year. This is probably not yet possible for Estonia, but this solution is a win-win with interest in the country and also for the teams and drivers as a test for Finland during the summer break.

Spot on. Regardless the advantages or disadvantages over normal PET sessions, this promotional event concept looks as an interesting option for the series future: it’d be much better to run some of those apart than continuing to push for brainless changes in the WRC calendar.

[the sniper]

Spot on. Regardless the advantages or disadvantages over normal PET sessions, this promotional event concept looks as an interesting option for the series future: it’d be much better to run some of those apart than continuing to push for brainless changes in the WRC calendar.

Yeah I think this is a really interesting concept that could open up some cool opportunities going forward. Seeing three or four works WRC cars can be a real draw for fans and an event. If the teams are sensible, for example bringing the kind of team set up they bring to a test rather than the super motorhomes they bring to a WRC round, this could be a cost effective way to attract wider exposure. Hearing about this Estonia deal my thoughts turned to Ireland. There's been talk of the Circuit of Ireland organisers wanting to bring the event back as a WRC round (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/46188320). Now to me that seems unlikely and personally I wouldn't like to lose Rally GB for the CoI, but 'Promotional event' status would seem to be perfect! With the strength of the Irish Championship I've been tempted to go over for a round, but if the CoI was to return in 2020 with an additional four or maybe more '17 WRC cars on top, of which four would be Works cars, I'd definitely be making the trip!

As it is, I'm tempted to go to Estonia for this. I'll be keeping a keen eye of how the entry list develops.

[Tauri_J]

Did you guys forget that last years NRF was on slower, smaller and softer roads. Those kind of roads were in Rally Estonia.

We have very wide and fast gravel roads too but average speeds would be brutal...140+ FIA wouldnt like that I bet lol

[AnttiL]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/141898/huttunen-linked-to-new-factory-wrc-deal

Huttunen getting some contacts after a good drive in Sweden. Also mentioned he is still doing testing work with Hyundai.

[AnttiL]

Did you guys forget that last years NRF was on slower, smaller and softer roads. Those kind of roads were in Rally Estonia.

We have very wide and fast gravel roads too but average speeds would be brutal...140+ FIA wouldnt like that I bet lol

I tried looking at some onboards and mostly the roads resemble Rally Poland more than Finland. The surface is, like said, more sandy and softer and at times there's no ditches but small banks on the edges of the road. The corners and crests are often smoother and longer and the cars jump less. There are some very fast sections where you only have to turn slightly. Especially the route of this and last year in Rally Finland has tried staying away from that kind of sections. But I'm not saying those roads are bad, there are some really nice crooked lines over a crest where you need to trust the pace notes, and some tricky narrow places with trees close by. I would in fact like the WRC calendar to include either Poland or Estonia to have a fast rally with different type of roads to Finland.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Jari Huttunen has been linked to a new works WRC deal after impressing on last month's Rally Sweden...

https://t.co/Gf4KOqpLMK

[AnttiL]

Jari Huttunen has been linked to a new works WRC deal after impressing on last month's Rally Sweden...

https://t.co/Gf4KOqpLMK

Just two messages above, just two...

[stefanvv]

Just two messages above, just two...

Twitter echo?!?

[dimviii]

M-Sport working on electric rally car aimed at one-day events

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/134842/msport-working-on-electric-rally-car?fbclid=IwAR2ZJwaDCOnl_uAvazf4TRlxBS9tDxF63-N5hvOegoJm6MkRiRPEN2hsyOI

[AnttiL]

M-Sport working on electric rally car aimed at one-day events

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/134842/msport-working-on-electric-rally-car?fbclid=IwAR2ZJwaDCOnl_uAvazf4TRlxBS9tDxF63-N5hvOegoJm6MkRiRPEN2hsyOI

Do you realize that's one year old news?

[dimviii]

Do you realize that's one year old news?

didnt remember it,just found and post it.

[AnttiL]

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/citroen/106220/citroen-to-leave-wrc-unless-rally-cars-go-hybrid

Citroen to leave WRC after 2020 unless it goes electric/hybrid

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/citroen/106220/citroen-to-leave-wrc-unless-rally-cars-go-hybrid

Citroen to leave WRC after 2020 unless it goes electric/hybrid

No surprise, the FIA are already consulting on electric cars for 2021 onwards.

[mknight]

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/citroen/106220/citroen-to-leave-wrc-unless-rally-cars-go-hybrid

Citroen to leave WRC after 2020 unless it goes electric/hybrid

That's hardly a suprise since different manu have been saying the same.

On a related note I noticed the new Audi SQ5 has electric kompressor working together with a mild hybrid system (very small battery). Surely something like that (to replace ALS) is absolute minimum.

[AnttiL]

No surprise, the FIA are already consulting on electric cars for 2021 onwards.

2022 has been planned

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Citroen should be ready...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport/citroen-tests-hybrid-wrc-car

[deephouse]

It smells like an excuse. They are gonna leave anyway. It has been cooking for some time now.

[jparker]

So, after gear stick and clutch pedal, now the whole gear shifting will disappear. I hate this...

[er88]

At worst; they leave.

At best; they remain and will commit in 2022 onwards, and take a year out in 2021 to develop the new car. And probably still only arrive in 22 with just two cars, and a car that is flawed again and takes a year and half to sort out...


;)

[mknight]

It smells like an excuse. They are gonna leave anyway. It has been cooking for some time now.

Right and VW used the same excuse when asked about coming back.... and Skoda used it to explain why they didn't enter under current rules.

You know in WRX manus also left with "excuses", except the last who left cause there was nobody to fight.

=> It does not matter how "real" the excuse is. Leaving is a fact.
Manus are in WRC for publicity. As L. Jackson there points out, they can use it for brand building even when the car doesn't match anything they have in their range. But if the brand "sport" image is about electric or hybrid cars then it becomes more and more weird.

Btw. I think most people noticed the latest Peugeot concepts:
Electric:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/4/17914540/peugeot-electric-concept-car-e-legend-design-photos-paris-motor-show-2018
Hybrid with 1.6 turbo:
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/peugeot/508/106050/peugeot-508-sport-engineered-concept-hits-geneva-with-400bhp


Note that it's all about "perception" of the brand, it's not like VW left cause they did not have money. It was to send a signal (both to the outside and to their shareholders) that they are taking dieselgate seriously.

[Tarmop]

Time passes, interests change, internal combustion as an only powersource of roadcars will soon be history. Nothing can be done about it sadly.

[RAS007]

Can't wait to hear these electric cars roaring through the forests.

[N.O.T]

Time passes, interests change, internal combustion as an only powersource of roadcars will soon be history. Nothing can be done about it sadly.

how soon ?

[mknight]

Can't wait to hear these electric cars roaring through the forests.

In longer term (5-10 years) the alternatives seem to be:

a) No WRC

b) "hobby" WRC running some cheap/or even old cars without real factory teams (not really RWD Escort, but something like "simplified" R5s). A bit like rallycross before "WRX" started. Note this would also mean limited coverage (not enough ppl to pay for Alllive-like service).

c) Hybrid/Electric with manufacturer money involved

For me c) even with fully electric and no engine noise is much better than the other options. Sure some guys here might prefer b).

[er88]

Surely full electric or whatever without sound isn't an option. For a variety of reasons.

Noise is part of rallyings spectacle, always has been and always has to be. It's so important for fans. Especially those who attend events.

If we had a monster electric car hurtling through a forest at 100mph +, making no more noise than a fucking washing machine, that's also dangerous.

[PLuto]

Surely full electric or whatever without sound isn't an option. For a variety of reasons.

Noise is part of rallyings spectacle, always has been and always has to be. It's so important for fans. Especially those who attend events.

If we had a monster electric car hurtling through a forest at 100mph +, making no more noise than a fucking washing machine, that's also dangerous.

And I think it is not only about rallysport, but whole motorsport. Without sound you are loosing big part of emotions, which is the reason why you are attending the events.

[stefanvv]

Can't wait to hear these electric cars roaring through the forests.

For sure there will be a noise

[deephouse]

For sure there will be a noise

sizzling and stones throwing is not calling a noise...

[RS]

And I think it is not only about rallysport, but whole motorsport. Without sound you are loosing big part of emotions, which is the reason why you are attending the events.

This is true but what percentage of a sports audience are attending in person vs. watching on the tv?

I don’t think fully electric WRC will happen for some time anyway. F1 style hybrids first maybe.

[Mk2 RS2000]

So people want to go electric because it is clean and green and saves the earth etc. What about the 58 nuclear power stations located in France that are providing the charging power for these save the world electric vehicles all around Europe. Just remind me how clean all this is. Just remind me where France disposes of its nuclear waste, for sure they don't bury it in rural France or beside the Seine River

Actually I like the new compression ignition petrol engine that will be powering the new Mazda 3 and 6 this year as that is a whole new ball game in fuel economy and greenhouse gas emissions.

[Tarmop]

It has to look green on paper. In reality it is money they need aka car, servicing and repairing it for 10 or so years, then scrapping it and buying a new one.

[AndyRAC]

Can't but help thinking that the WRC is behind the curve; we've seen Hybrids in the WEC since 2012 - and F1 not much after that. There is probably a good reason why; Cost. How many factory teams can afford to run a Hybrid/ Electric car? It's easy to say we'll join/ continue in the WRC when it goes Hybrid/ electric; but how many will actually do so?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Electric cars eco-credentials are more that they dont pollute the cities with carcenegenic NOx and particulates. How the electricity is produced is a different matter.

[mknight]

Can't but help thinking that the WRC is behind the curve; we've seen Hybrids in the WEC since 2012 - and F1 not much after that. There is probably a good reason why; Cost. How many factory teams can afford to run a Hybrid/ Electric car? It's easy to say we'll join/ continue in the WRC when it goes Hybrid/ electric; but how many will actually do so?

WRC has been "behind the curve" a few times before already.

- In 1995-2005 almost no road cars used big (2L+) turbo engines. Either naturally aspirated petrol or TDI.
- Then downsizing came with small petrol engines with turbo, but it took WRC a few years to switch to 1.6
- Similarly direct injection came in road cars before WRC.

Don't think cost is the main issue. More legacy + "slow" rule changes.

[Mirek]

Can't but help thinking that the WRC is behind the curve; we've seen Hybrids in the WEC since 2012 - and F1 not much after that. There is probably a good reason why; Cost. How many factory teams can afford to run a Hybrid/ Electric car? It's easy to say we'll join/ continue in the WRC when it goes Hybrid/ electric; but how many will actually do so?

It's muuuuuch easier to integrate hybrids or electric cars in circuits than in rallying. It's not only about the cost. There is hugely different safety environment, durability requirements etc.

[sindroms]

I tried looking at some onboards and mostly the roads resemble Rally Poland more than Finland...

I have visited Poland WRC back in 2014, I am visiting Rally Estonia every year and Rally Finland almost every year. I did spectator recce in Poland and doing it every time at Rally Estonia and Rally Finland and I must admit Rally Estonia roads are far away from Poland roads in every aspect. Surface is one of them definitely. Estonia roads have way more terrain changes - bends, small up and downs, crests, blind corners. However, it is also not Finland of course. So my final conclusion could be - " Rally Poland has something similar to Rally Estonia while Rally Estonia has something similar to Rally Finland" :)

[Jarek Z]

For sure there will be a noise

You mean something like that? ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RYp8tXgSNc

[stefanvv]

You mean something like that? ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RYp8tXgSNc

Noise like noise, You know. Whether is something appealing is another matter. There was no antilag noise until mid '90s, but now we can't imagine rally sound without it.

[Mirek]

Noise like noise, You know. Whether is something appealing is another matter. There was no antilag noise until mid '90s, but now we can't imagine rally sound without it.

I have attended number of electric races and I can say one thing - it's utterly BORING.

[stefanvv]

I have attended number of electric races and I can say one thing - it's utterly BORING.

Who said it isn't?

[dimviii]

There was no antilag noise until mid '90s

but we had revy engines,exhaust bangs,turbo/wastegate chatter.

[stefanvv]

but we had revy engines,exhaust bangs,turbo/wastegate chatter.

That sounds like a symphony.

[RS]

As there is no wheel to wheel racing in rallying, the noise is probably a much bigger part of the spectator experience than in circuit racing.

But many countries are banning internal combusiton engines in the coming decades. What are we going top do? Will manufacturers still want to be involved in the sport using combustion engines? Or will it become more a privateer sport?

[tommeke_B]

Well, you can already see with Fabia R5 how most people find it a boring car to see in comparison to other R5 cars, just because of the sound... So electric cars will be a disaster.

[N.O.T]

electric cars are dangerous for rallying, apart from boring...

Nobody cares if the arab nobody team leaves... good riddance.

[tommeke_B]

Can't FIA leave the WRC as it is, and make some new championship nobody cares about, like Formula E?

[Rallyper]

So people want to go electric because it is clean and green and saves the earth etc. What about the 58 nuclear power stations located in France that are providing the charging power for these save the world electric vehicles all around Europe. Just remind me how clean all this is. Just remind me where France disposes of its nuclear waste, for sure they don't bury it in rural France or beside the Seine River

Actually I like the new compression ignition petrol engine that will be powering the new Mazda 3 and 6 this year as that is a whole new ball game in fuel economy and greenhouse gas emissions.

Without those Nuclear Power plants there would be no chances to charge batteries on electric vehicles in normal traffic...

[mknight]

Can't FIA leave the WRC as it is, and make some new championship nobody cares about, like Formula E?

If they leave things as they are manus leave. See WRX.

On the subject of noise, Evo 7-9 make close to no sound as well.

[Gregor-y]

More noise about Canada:Rally Canada urged to be ready for a WRC round within five years (https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/141925/canadian-rally-urged-to-be-ready-for-wrc-round)

Matton told Autosport last month that he favoured two winter rallies on the WRC calendar and a Canadian event is seen as part of that solution.

A mild Rally Sweden put the issue of finding a cold, snow-sure event back on the sport's agenda and an Ottawa-based February rally could be that event.

I can't really believe Sweden would be off the calendar as happy as I am that Ottawa is only a day's drive for me. Maybe the WRC should cut Monte Carlo and do the Arctic Lapland Rally if they really want snow.

[N.O.T]

If they leave things as they are manus leave. See WRX.

on a scale from 1 to 10 how hard is every day life for someone with your condition ?

[Googol]

The problem is that the choice is not just to electric or not to electric. If they decide to go to electric, the choices vary between let's plug in a same cheap standard component for everyone to look modern, and let's give everyone freedom to spend ridiculous amounts of money for new solutions to really be modern. The range is very big and every manufacturer wants different. So the result will be a lousy compromise for which no one is happy and everyone will threaten to leave anyway.

[sindroms]

Can't FIA leave the WRC as it is, and make some new championship nobody cares about, like Formula E?

I have got feeling that I will end my rally fans days by watching hisoric rally - cars with internal combustion engine...

[Gregor-y]

I've met plenty of people that haven't moved on from the Mk 2 Escort/Quattro/Evo/WRX depending on their age. As for historics people still watch horses race...

[stefanvv]

I've met plenty of people that haven't moved on from the Mk 2 Escort/Quattro/Evo/WRX depending on their age. As for historics people still watch horses race...

I'm one of those You haven't met, but I still watch the WRC. I'm stuck in the historic area though.

[mknight]

The problem is that the choice is not just to electric or not to electric. If they decide to go to electric, the choices vary between let's plug in a same cheap standard component for everyone to look modern, and let's give everyone freedom to spend ridiculous amounts of money for new solutions to really be modern. The range is very big and every manufacturer wants different. So the result will be a lousy compromise for which no one is happy and everyone will threaten to leave anyway.

This is an excellent point. FIA has to agree with manus on hybrid or electric rules... and that is insanely painfull process.

Toyota is still pushing mostly hybrids with few electic-only, while some other manus are almost entirely skipping hybrids and going straight into electric.

For hybrids there are like million different solutions, how big/small battery, power of electric motor, how they should be coupled with engine/gearbox, will re-charging of the battery be somewhat restricted.. etc. etc.

Even if they all agree on electric then they have to agree on rules that about power (how can FIA control/restrict it so it's similar - say direct monitoring of current/voltage drain), battery size/weight etc etc.

------------------------

Historics are very nice to watch in person and pointless to follow as a "competition".

[pantealex]

For those who watch rally from "TV", electronic cars are real option. I can understand that. If you watch in-car video it doesn´t matter what kind of engine car have.

But if you watch it LIVE on stages then ...

Same thing about entries, if you don´t go watching rallies LIVE it doesn´t matter if Rally have only 30 entries but very few would go to foreign country to see 30 cars.

[janvanvurpa]

For those who watch rally from "TV", electronic cars are real option. I can understand that. If you watch in-car video it doesn´t matter what kind of engine car have.

But if you watch it LIVE on stages then ...

Same thing about entries, if you don´t go watching rallies LIVE it doesn´t matter if Rally have only 30 entries but very few would go to foreign country to see 30 cars.


or 26..of which 3 are local Evos and a handful of very amateurish little FWD econo-cars.
And that's after years of doing similar...

[N.O.T]

For those who watch rally from "TV", electronic cars are real option. I can understand that. If you watch in-car video it doesn´t matter what kind of engine car have.

But if you watch it LIVE on stages then ...

Same thing about entries, if you don´t go watching rallies LIVE it doesn´t matter if Rally have only 30 entries but very few would go to foreign country to see 30 cars.

you are smarter than this... or maybe not.

of course it matters, TV is not only about images its about sound as well... what are you on about ?

same thing for the entries its different to advertise an event to the public with 120 drivers than with 30...

[Jarek Z]

Same thing about entries, if you don´t go watching rallies LIVE it doesn´t matter if Rally have only 30 entries

IMHO a rally with 30 cars is always sad, no matter if you watch it live, on TV or follow online results.

[the sniper]

I've met plenty of people that haven't moved on from the Mk 2 Escort/Quattro/Evo/WRX depending on their age. As for historics people still watch horses race...

You could be describing 90% of British rally 'fans'. But look at the lesson to be learnt from here, once the focus is on historic rallying, the lifeblood is drained from the contemporary scene and the sport becomes irrelevant...

[ToughMac]

You could be describing 90% of British rally 'fans'. But look at the lesson to be learnt from here, once the focus is on historic rallying, the lifeblood is drained from the contemporary scene and the sport becomes irrelevant...

The reason historic rallying is so popular today is not just nostalgia but flair and spectacle. That's still a very real thing from 30 year old+ cars with 30 year old+ technology.

[[WRCRR]]

I have followed rallying for over 35 years and one thing that is always a constant is that for factory teams most important things besides being successful are marketing and technology transfer. It has always been like this. Currently we are in a situation where 2 other major FIA series (F1 and WEC) have used electric power systems in some ways already for the last 10 years (WEC hybrids from 2008 and F1 first KERS in 2009 and later other systems as well). It must be getting more and more difficult for the manufacturers in WRC to justify the 100% fossil fuel based program's to their boards - especially if they are not even winning. On the other hand there would be very clear justification for electric/hybrid programs both in marketing (have to do what your competitors are doing) and in technology transfer (developing new technology in competition). Also, we have to notice that WRC is not the greatest advertising platform in the first place anymore, so the manu's have to already take this into account.

Then we have also fast growing Formula E with extremely strong manufacturer participation, it does not even matter if I or many others don't give a shit about FE - it is still clear that the manu's do, for the very reasons mentioned above.

Whether we like it or not there is a huge paradigm shift going on in car business, and motorsport as well. I sure as hell would like to see V12 engines back in F1 and WEC, and crazy fire breathing monsters in WRC. However, I also realize this is no longer possible for reasons far greater than a motorsport championship.

WRC will need to move on no matter how painful the change - or then choose the second road where there will no longer be direct manufacturer participation. Can a world-level championship be maintained without this - I let all the other great series that have fallen during the years after this happened be my answer. Look what happened to WRX factory teams when they made the sudden U-turn on electric cars....

There will be hybrid and later electric rally cars in WRC - the only question is whether this happen sooner or later. Currently as compared to many other series WRC is already late, I would bet on sooner.

[Jarek Z]

;1210422']Then we have also fast growing Formula E with extremely strong manufacturer participation, it does not even matter if I or many others don't give a shit about FE - it is still clear that the manu's do, for the very reasons mentioned above.


It seems that manufacturers are actually the only people interested in Formula E. I have just had a look at Formula E fans forum and it is actually dead. There is just 1 post this year and last year there were 6 (six posts in the whole year!) and most of them say that this championship is boring as hell :)

Check it out yourself:
https://www.motorsportforums.com/forumdisplay.php?42-Formula-E

P.S. That doesn't mean that I don't agree with your post.

[Rallyper]

@WRCRR Changes will come. But changes will not be without massive drops of interests from pure rally fans. Going some kind of hybrid like in current Formula One would be possible for a while I guess. And we´ll still have sound, but next step - going full electric will make the motorsport die a slow dead.

(Why doesn´t Formula One go full electric? I don´t follow discussions about F1 - what is the future about there?)

[dupanton]

I have no problem if WRC would become hybrid. It's a logical step and will not change much to the sound etc. The only have to make sure they limit the costs. It's already expensive enough...

[Morte66]

The problem is that the choice is not just to electric or not to electric. If they decide to go to electric, the choices vary between let's plug in a same cheap standard component for everyone to look modern, and let's give everyone freedom to spend ridiculous amounts of money for new solutions to really be modern. The range is very big and every manufacturer wants different. So the result will be a lousy compromise for which no one is happy and everyone will threaten to leave anyway.

Absolutely.

The question is: are they doing this for R&D, or for marketing?

Although pretty much everybody in all forms of motor racing talks about how it feeds back into car development, it seems most of them pay for it out of the marketing budget not the R&D budget.

I mean, come on. You can spend 30 million a year on a WRC programme and trumpet how rally Mexico improved your engine management at high altitudes. Or you can spend a million on testing a car in Mexico for a few months. If you do the former, it's marketing. But there are a few manufacturers who do look like they might honestly be in it for the R&D, at least partly, e.g. Toyota's hybrid program for WEC (Le Mans etc).

And when these clash... as you say, we get a crappy compromise.

We can only hope that nobody really cares about electrics, they all just want to be seen to be doing something. Then they can all have the same cheap standard hybrid unit to integrate, and it will keep the marketing side happy.

[Mirek]

(Why doesn´t Formula One go full electric? I don´t follow discussions about F1 - what is the future about there?)

Because nobody cares about Formula E and no fish drains the water from its own pond.

[AnttiL]

Let's say they would incorporate an electric anti-lag system and maybe something that gathers energy back from braking. Not saying this is viable or possible but let's keep that as an example. Now they have hybrid technology but the cars are still quite a lot like they are now. The manufacturers can now label their cars hybrid like "Toyota Yaris Hybrid WRC" etc. Everyone's happy?

[N.O.T]

Let's say they would incorporate an electric anti-lag system and maybe something that gathers energy back from braking. Not saying this is viable or possible but let's keep that as an example. Now they have hybrid technology but the cars are still quite a lot like they are now. The manufacturers can now label their cars hybrid like "Toyota Yaris Hybrid WRC" etc. Everyone's happy?

lol...

pure trash...

[Mirek]

Let's say they would incorporate an electric anti-lag system and maybe something that gathers energy back from braking. Not saying this is viable or possible but let's keep that as an example. Now they have hybrid technology but the cars are still quite a lot like they are now. The manufacturers can now label their cars hybrid like "Toyota Yaris Hybrid WRC" etc. Everyone's happy?

Yes, that is probably the most reasonable thing to do but let's wait and see.

[Rallyper]

Because nobody cares about Formula E and no fish drains the water from its own pond.

That´s the answer I was fishing for.

If not F1 goes full electric, why should WRC?

End of discussion ;) ;)

[Jarek Z]

Because nobody cares about Formula E

It seems the organizers have to give away tickets for free, so that anybody comes to watch it :)
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/formula-e-attendance-figures-grossly-inflated-by-freebies-organizer-admits-1.4381808

[mknight]

That´s the answer I was fishing for.

If not F1 goes full electric, why should WRC?

End of discussion ;) ;)

I don't think it's inevitable that WRC goes full electric, but it is inevitable that it's not petrol-only like now. And that has to happen already with 2021/2022 rules.

The marketing and sponsor structure of F1 is very different than WRC. F1 is about "being the best" with less relevance to everyday use. WRC is seemingly "normal" cars on "normal" roads.

[Gregor-y]

The WRC will go full electric when the market goes full electric, assuming it lasts that long. As one of those people nostalgic for Group A and the last gasp of endurance events they competed in I really want relevance between competition cars and what I can reasonably buy for myself. Hybrids make sense and frankly I wouldn't mind an electric class as well.

No better way to make sure they'll be built to handle all conditions.

[Myrvold]

That´s the answer I was fishing for.

If not F1 goes full electric, why should WRC?

End of discussion ;) ;)

Well, another answer is that apparently Agag and FE managed to get exclusivity on FIA Formula Electric - something. So even if F1 wanted to, they wouldn't be able to!

[N.O.T]

whoever considers that the future of main motorsports is electric and other shit is stupid... ok its not a big surprise since most motorsport fans are uneducated trash so its normal.

But motorsports is a way of advertising to the public, if there is not a following then there will be no motorsport, and NONE will ever pay a ticket to see electric garbage and NONE will pay for a TV subscription.

So please contain you retardation and try and have a common sense look to the whole situation.

i understand that your stupidity does not let you see through the new trend of climate change cult but at the end of the day motorsports are there to make money (directly or indirectly) so there is not way in the next 20 years to see electric garbage taking the main stage... we might see some stupid shit like that KERS system but other than that petrol will move motorsports in the immediate future.

[Andre Oliveira]

From today’s FIA WMSC

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1FM2IbXgAA6A8s?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1FOE1XW0AAxXY9?format=jpg&name=medium

[dimviii]

Hayden Paddon
‏ @HaydenPaddon
21m21 minutes ago

Not long until we are driving again! Looking forward to sharing more news and our 2019 calendar with you next week. A big year lays ahead! Working harder than ever with preparation, training and driving to step things up another notch. 2019, here we come...... #watchthisspace

[Marcco]

Hayden Paddon
‏ @HaydenPaddon
21m21 minutes ago

Not long until we are driving again! Looking forward to sharing more news and our 2019 calendar with you next week. A big year lays ahead! Working harder than ever with preparation, training and driving to step things up another notch. 2019, here we come...... #watchthisspace

Any idea what that might be? I only hope he means rally :)

[Marcco]

whoever considers that the future of main motorsports is electric and other shit is stupid... ok its not a big surprise since most motorsport fans are uneducated trash so its normal.

But motorsports is a way of advertising to the public, if there is not a following then there will be no motorsport, and NONE will ever pay a ticket to see electric garbage and NONE will pay for a TV subscription.

So please contain you retardation and try and have a common sense look to the whole situation.

i understand that your stupidity does not let you see through the new trend of climate change cult but at the end of the day motorsports are there to make money (directly or indirectly) so there is not way in the next 20 years to see electric garbage taking the main stage... we might see some stupid shit like that KERS system but other than that petrol will move motorsports in the immediate future.

Well, people race with horses, dogs, skis, bicycle, rollers... or whatever that it possible to race with, regardless it make any sound or not. Electric cars will be no exception. It's humans nature to compete. Money making comes afterwards, it's another expression of humans nature to compete with others.

[AnttiL]

Any idea what that might be? I only hope he means rally :)

At least he's going to do GRC European Rallycross.

[Rallyper]

Well, people race with horses, dogs, skis, bicycle, rollers... or whatever that it possible to race with, regardless it make any sound or not. Electric cars will be no exception. It's humans nature to compete. Money making comes afterwards, it's another expression of humans nature to compete with others.

What you are saying is that rallying with electric cars just change audience from pure rallyists to just common people liking competiton. Fine.

But I´m out...

[RS]

It seems that manufacturers are actually the only people interested in Formula E. I have just had a look at Formula E fans forum and it is actually dead. There is just 1 post this year and last year there were 6 (six posts in the whole year!) and most of them say that this championship is boring as hell :)

Check it out yourself:
https://www.motorsportforums.com/forumdisplay.php?42-Formula-E

P.S. That doesn't mean that I don't agree with your post.

Forum posts are not necessarily a measure of a series popularity. On Autosport the FE threads are much more popular than rallying for example.

I am interested in lots of different motorsports but I use this forum only for rallying, because it’s the best :)

[Jarek Z]

What you are saying is that rallying with electric cars just change audience from pure rallyists to just common people liking competiton. Fine.

But I´m out...

Me too. It didn't work with Formula E. Have you ever seen anybody interested in it?

[RS]

Well, another answer is that apparently Agag and FE managed to get exclusivity on FIA Formula Electric - something. So even if F1 wanted to, they wouldn't be able to!

This is correct. I believe it was for 25 years.

[GravelBen]

At least he's going to do GRC European Rallycross.

And a few NZRC / APRC rallies.

[AnttiL]

Forum posts are not necessarily a measure of a series popularity. On Autosport the FE threads are much more popular than rallying for example.

Maybe the problem is indeed that this is a traditional motorsports forum. I know one guy from work who follows Formula E but doesn't care about other motorsports. He's a gaming/programming/electronics enthusiast.

[Eli]

From today’s FIA WMSC

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1FM2IbXgAA6A8s?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1FOE1XW0AAxXY9?format=jpg&name=medium

Doesn't show me anything...if you could re-post it would be nice

[Rallyper]

Maybe the problem is indeed that this is a traditional motorsports forum. I know one guy from work who follows Formula E but doesn't care about other motorsports. He's a gaming/programming/electronics enthusiast.

For sure rallyfans in future could very well be only gamers... :) :)

[AnttiL]

Doesn't show me anything...if you could re-post it would be nice

The main thing is that the current WRC cars will be used for 2020 and 2021 with added homologation jokers. If I remember correctly the previous intention was to make new regulations for 2020-2022.

[Marcco]

What you are saying is that rallying with electric cars just change audience from pure rallyists to just common people liking competiton. Fine.

But I´m out...

Aren't we all "just common people liking competiton"? "pure rallyist" is just fancy words... which mean nothing.

There will always be people who complain when things change, especially if these thing has been like that for all of their lifetime. I'm almost sure there was plenty of people saying "That's it. I'm out" when Group B was banned. But then time has passed... new people came... and here we are today!
You like it or not, things will change, new generations will grow and there will always be people who passionately follows their beloved sport.

[flykas]

For sure rallyfans in future could very well be only gamers... :) :)

Because electricity is very related to gaming :D I don't understand why there is so much emphasis on the sound. I mean it is really awesome, but it is just like a side-effect for me, the main thing is the art of driving. If they would be thinking about adding some kind of self driving cars or helpers for driver that would be way worse than no nice sound.

[Francis44]

This thing with WRC is that no matter what, you have to keep enticing spectators to go on scene and watch the races live, worldwide audience via streams and highlights is valuable ofcourse but this is no longer 2010 or 2011 and theres much more efficient ways to spend your money if you're looking to promote tourism in a specific region.

And for that, the sport must be as spectatcular as possible, because if not then how are you supposed to gather the crowds?!

We always talk about manufacteurs and promoters but what about the organizers?! It has also got much more expensive to host a round and working on Tourism promotion I can tell you, it has started to become very difficult to justify a 1-1.5 million budget to sponsor a round, specially if you are in Tourism board.

[Rallyper]

Don´t take me seriously. I´m just a grumpy retired old man... But pure rallyfan, you bet I am.

[Rally Power]

Let's say they would incorporate an electric anti-lag system and maybe something that gathers energy back from braking. Not saying this is viable or possible but let's keep that as an example. Now they have hybrid technology but the cars are still quite a lot like they are now. The manufacturers can now label their cars hybrid like "Toyota Yaris Hybrid WRC" etc. Everyone's happy?

Spot on. Mild hybrids are the only reasonable way to go as they provide an eco label to the series without affecting the fans perception of the sport and manus development costs. High tech hybrid rally cars would be wildely expensive and fully electric cars aren’t yet ready for a proper rally use.

[Rally Power]

It seems that manufacturers are actually the only people interested in Formula E. (...)
Like Helmut Marko (Red Bull motorsport chief) says: Formula E it’s not about racing, it’s about marketing; manus are using it to save their faces after Diesel scandal.



So people want to go electric because it is clean and green and saves the earth etc. What about the 58 nuclear power stations located in France that are providing the charging power for these save the world electric vehicles all around Europe. Just remind me how clean all this is. (…)
Don’t forget coal plants: they’re, by far, the largest electricity source in the world. Politics and car manus always try to hide the obvious: a larger global production of electricity (to cope with EV’s expansion) can only be ensured by burning more coal; eventually we’ll have even more CO2 emissions than today...

[AL14]

So people want to go electric because it is clean and green and saves the earth etc.

I disagree. People wants to go electric because oil will finish. If people cared about earth we would have not exterminating marine fauna with plastic or breathing co2 in the city centers.

[Sulland]

Like Helmut Marko (Red Bull motorsport chief) says: Formula E it’s not about racing, it’s about marketing; manus are using it to save their faces after Diesel scandal.

And he is correct. WRC and WRC2 like most other top classes that has factory support is about R&D and marketing.

VAG and other major brands will only produce electric cars in a few years, petroleum engines will die.
I have sold my petrol and diesel cars, and have only electric cars.

In Norway about 50% of all new cars sold are electric, due to very little tax on new cars and no or little road tax.

It will come, like it or not, Money and marketing rule.

[N.O.T]

Like Helmut Marko (Red Bull motorsport chief) says: Formula E it’s not about racing, it’s about marketing; manus are using it to save their faces after Diesel scandal.

And he is correct. WRC and WRC2 like most other top classes that has factory support is about R&D and marketing.

VAG and other major brands will only produce electric cars in a few years, petroleum engines will die.
I have sold my petrol and diesel cars, and have only electric cars.

In Norway about 50% of all new cars sold are electric, due to very little tax on new cars and no or little road tax.

It will come, like it or not, Money and marketing rule.

so in a country where it bases its prosperity on oil and natural gas reserves, you buy electric garbage...

ironic.

[AnttiL]

Don’t forget coal plants: they’re, by far, the largest electricity source in the world. Politics and car manus always try to hide the obvious: a larger global production of electricity (to cope with EV’s expansion) can only be ensured by burning more coal; eventually we’ll have even more CO2 emissions than today...

Even if all electricity for electric cars would be produced by diesel generators, electric cars would still make less CO2 emissions (https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-ev-charged-with-diesel-generator-still-cleaner-than-conventional-car-61942/) because they are more efficient with using the energy. But it's the environmental cost of manufacturing the batteries which is setting electric cars questionable at the moment.

But this is getting a bit off topic.

[Rally Power]

Even if all electricity for electric cars would be produced by diesel generators (...)

Diesel generators?!? For gods sake mate, I obviously care about the environment protection and believe EV’s are the future but only if they’re based on a clean source, like Hydrogen.

Current EV’s are powered by the electricity grid, which globally is mainly based on burning coal (EV’s largest market is China and local electricity is 70% coal sourced, the same for India and most of Asia, South America, Africa and so on; even in some European countries coal is still a huge source and its also coming back in the US); to promote its intensive use is a short seeing politic that won’t help bringing CO2 levels down.

We should be strongly pushing for Hydrogen, but probably that wouldn’t make the renewable energy lobby happy and car manus also needed a faster (and cheaper) solution to survive after the Diesel scandal. Shortly: EV’s are good, but not in the current way.

[Tarmop]

Biofuels should be the next answer. Just like they use in WRC right now, is there even a bit fossil fuels in it or just alcohol with additives?

[Mirek]

Biofuels is a pure evil and it shall not be promoted in any way.

[Francis44]

"Petroleum engines will die".

Funny enough that is said many times but people forget many manufacteurs quotas for electric vehicles in the future still include hybrids, and afaik hybrids still use ICEs.

For example here 70% of "electric vehicles" sold are hybrids.

[AnttiL]

Diesel generators?!? For gods sake mate, I obviously care about the environment protection and believe EV’s are the future but only if they’re based on a clean source, like Hydrogen.

You totally missed my point. Maybe check out the link if it helps understand. But to clarify, I don't mean electric cars should be powered by diesel generators :D

[denkimi]

Like Helmut Marko (Red Bull motorsport chief) says: Formula E it’s not about racing, it’s about marketing; manus are using it to save their faces after Diesel scandal.

And he is correct. WRC and WRC2 like most other top classes that has factory support is about R&D and marketing.

VAG and other major brands will only produce electric cars in a few years, petroleum engines will die.
I have sold my petrol and diesel cars, and have only electric cars.

In Norway about 50% of all new cars sold are electric, due to very little tax on new cars and no or little road tax.

It will come, like it or not, Money and marketing rule.
people don't want electric cars.
norway is the best example for that. they try to destroy the market by putting huge taxes on normal cars and huge advantages on electric cars, but still only half of the cars are electric.

electric cars are nothing more than a pr stunt, they have 0 influence globally. there are 1,3 billion cars in the world, and every year another extra 85 million are being sold. about 2 million of these are electric.

[Sulland]

Diesel generators?!? For gods sake mate, I obviously care about the environment protection and believe EV’s are the future but only if they’re based on a clean source, like Hydrogen.

Current EV’s are powered by the electricity grid, which globally is mainly based on burning coal (EV’s largest market is China and local electricity is 70% coal sourced, the same for India and most of Asia, South America, Africa and so on; even in some European countries coal is still a huge source and its also coming back in the US); to promote its intensive use is a short seeing politic that won’t help bringing CO2 levels down.

We should be strongly pushing for Hydrogen, but probably that wouldn’t make the renewable energy lobby happy and car manus also needed a faster (and cheaper) solution to survive after the Diesel scandal. Shortly: EV’s are good, but not in the current way.

If you look at Norway, the situation is a bit different, the electricity I use for charging my cars is made from water/hydro powerplants only. So it is as carbonclean as possible.

Looking at Hydrogen/fuelcell tech is imteresting only until the next gen batteries comes along. I think hydrogen is a parenteses. But maybe Toyota finds a better way than todays picture.

[denkimi]

If you look at Norway, the situation is a bit different, the electricity I use for charging my cars is made from water/hydro powerplants only. So it is as carbonclean as possible.

Looking at Hydrogen/fuelcell tech is imteresting only until the next gen batteries comes along. I think hydrogen is a parenteses. But maybe Toyota finds a better way than todays picture.
norways budget completely depends on the oil and gas they sell to the rest of the world.

[Mirek]

norways budget completely depends on the oil and gas they sell to the rest of the world.

Yes, that's quite funny. Norway has the highest percentage of electric cars but those get heavy subsidies with money coming from selling fossile fuels to others.

[KKS]

But they make clear air and nature in places where they live.
For example: we have 100 000 cars that produce 10 000kg of CO2 (irrelevant values, just for example) and 100% of that CO2 pollutes the air in city where lives 3 000 000 people.
PowerPlant that burn coal for electricity have 50-70kms range for polluted air where lives 50 000 people, produce same 10 000kg of CO2 and powers same 100 000 cars. So air and ecology in a city was much better with using electric cars.

[Mirek]

But they make clear air and nature in places where they live.

Yeah, they achieve that by selling the shit to the others. That's quite a hypocrisy for me. But ok...


For example: we have 100 000 cars that produce 10 000kg of CO2 (irrelevant values, just for example) and 100% of that CO2 pollutes the air in city where lives 3 000 000 people.
PowerPlant that burn coal for electricity have 50-70kms range for polluted air where lives 50 000 people, produce same 10 000kg of CO2 and powers same 100 000 cars. So air and ecology in a city was much better with using electric cars.

You're mixing stuff. CO2 is not what causes problems in the cities. That is SOx, NOx and dust particles. CO2 causes issues with the atmosphere and its quantity is related directly to the fuel consumption. That means that the most simple way how to quickly reduce CO2 emissions right now is not to go electric (because that will take ages due to non-existing mass infrastructure) but to simply limit the maximum weight of the cars.

Currently the cities are flooded with huge overweight SUVs (who the hell needs something like GL or Q7 and for what?). Those hypocrites tell you how they think about environment and how they work on electrification but in the same time they produce more and more SUVs which produce 2-4x more emissions than a common small city car.

Of course electrification would help cities but most of the European cities have electric networks half a century old and it's impossible to just connect hundreds of thousands of cars to it. There are things which can be done right now, not in ten or twenty years. Less SUVs, less old cars with removed particle filters, less bribery at technical checks, better public transport etc. can help a lot more at the very moment.

And you know what would help the most? To limit useless transport of things (including tourism of course). The global economy brought us to the state where we have in every single moment around 200 thousand commercial ariliners in the air, millions of trucks on the roads and thousands of ships on the seas. Most of that what they transport can be produced locally but that would not bring those billions to the few people driving the whole circus who tell you how you shall think about the nature and stuff.

Not even speaking about absurd overproduction of everything. We buy loads of non-necessary stuff just to be cool. The things are designed to brake down after two years so that we need to buy new ones. All of that has to be produced somehow and from something. Electric cars is not what will bring us salvation because those are only another part of this craziness. The only thing which can bring a real change is a change of thinking - and that will not come.

Sorry for a long post but this is why this "let's go electric and everything will be fine" is nothing more than a bullshit for me.

[Sulland]

1.Yeah, they achieve that by selling the shit to the others. That's quite a hypocrisy for me.

2. Of course electrification would help cities but most of the European cities have electric networks half a century old and it's impossible to just connect hundreds of thousands of cars to it. There are things which can be done right now, not in ten or twenty years. Less SUVs, less old cars with removed particle filters, less bribery at technical checks, better public transport etc. can help a lot more at the very moment.

3. And you know what would help the most? To limit useless transport of things (including tourism of course). The global economy brought us to the state where we have in every single moment around 200 thousand commercial ariliners in the air, millions of trucks on the roads and thousands of ships on the seas. Most of that what they transport can be produced locally but that would not bring those billions to the few people driving the whole circus who tell you how you shall think about the nature and stuff.

4. Not even speaking about absurd overproduction of everything. We buy loads of non-necessary stuff just to be cool. The things are designed to brake down.

5. Sorry for a long post but this is why this "let's go electric and everything will be fine" is nothing more than a bullshit for me.

1. Yes, we were lucky and have maid a lot from selling oil&gas, and have a lot of people having their income from that. But north sea oil and gas is some of the less polluting way of producing it.
2. Ours is also old. Oldå as in IT net. But new areas developed for houses get 3 phase 400v transport net TN standard. 3-4 commercial companies build out quick-chargers, so you can charge an e-Golf to 80% in 30 min at aprox 0,25€ per minute.
But mostly we charge at home on 10amp and many get free charging at work.
3. Spot on. One Maersk car carrier that burns heavy oil 24/7/365 pollutes more than ALL european cars during a year!!
4. Spot on.
5. 3% of Norwegians I guess buy an e car due to try to save the globe. The rest of us to save money.
call it bullshit or being a hypocrat, I dont mind.

I drive 2x60 km to work, and saves a lot by driving in my tiny radiocar, an e-up. - compared to a fossil car.

But this is a wanted change made by bold politicians.

[KKS]

Yeah, they achieve that by selling the shit to the others. That's quite a hypocrisy for me. But ok...

It's like with waste problem. If all keep waste near own houses - all city will be dirty. So decide one place will be dirty and all others - was clean. And electric cars can help with this. And BTW, electricity produced not 100% only by coal power plants. Here In Ukraine we have 53% of electricity produced by Nuclear power plants. So it even 'cheaper' for ecology.
With a rest of your post - I totally agree.

[AnttiL]

Now with Sordo winning Street Stage Leon 2 (and Lappi and Mikkelsen also winning SS1 and SS2), all factory WRC drivers have won a stage in 2019.

[Mk2 RS2000]

It's like with waste problem. If all keep waste near own houses - all city will be dirty. So decide one place will be dirty and all others - was clean. And electric cars can help with this. And BTW, electricity produced not 100% only by coal power plants. Here In Ukraine we have 53% of electricity produced by Nuclear power plants. So it even 'cheaper' for ecology.
With a rest of your post - I totally agree.

And Nuclear power plants are "clean" ?

[sonnybobiche]

And Nuclear power plants are "clean" ?

Exceptionally clean. They produce only energy and heat, and any byproduct is contained inside a relatively small casket that can be buried a mile underground after 30 years of generating power. It is the cleanest source of energy ever devised by man.

Edit: Tom Fowler (chief engineer at Toyota) comes from the Nuclear industry. Tom, if you're reading this, back me up!

[GravelBen]

Exceptionally clean. They produce only energy and heat, and any byproduct is contained inside a relatively small casket that can be buried a mile underground after 30 years of generating power. It is the cleanest source of energy ever devised by man.

In theory, as long as nothing goes wrong?

[Mk2 RS2000]

Exceptionally clean. They produce only energy and heat, and any byproduct is contained inside a relatively small casket that can be buried a mile underground after 30 years of generating power. It is the cleanest source of energy ever devised by man.

Edit: Tom Fowler (chief engineer at Toyota) comes from the Nuclear industry. Tom, if you're reading this, back me up!

So why did France want to bury its waste in the Pacific region which is about as far away as one can get from France if everything is so safe. Its not clean and green yet.

By the way I think that nuclear power is the fuel for the future motor vehicle, it just that currently things are not quite as tidy as they should be

[GravelBen]

Does that mean its time to finish off the cold fusion generator in my garage? :spinhead:

[Norm75]

Now with Sordo winning Street Stage Leon 2 (and Lappi and Mikkelsen also winning SS1 and SS2), all factory WRC drivers have won a stage in 2019.
I for one appreciate your effort to try and divert this talk of boring electric rally car nonsense, but Tidemand?

[AnttiL]

I for one appreciate your effort to try and divert this talk of boring electric rally car nonsense, but Tidemand?

Can not consider him as a factory driver, just doing a couple of runs here and there

[Zeakiwi2]

I read these guys put an new article out the other day.
Sunfire - Euros - turning carbon dioxide into Blue crude. Germany/ Norway.
https://youtu.be/v8FenSFTFdU

What do most consider an acceptable range for an electric car? Stockholm to Nice non stop? What % of the Euro population uses public transport to get to work, school etc?(of the everyday mobile population)
Euro fast charging 450 kw, discussions about old electric networks becomes less important if you can get a few days electric car running in less than 10 minutes (are there cafe car charging stations)?
https://youtu.be/a5Q4pic5feE


BMW - hydrogen (have to admire the Bavarian persistence with hydrogen.
https://youtu.be/DFpxVCtMvB4


Boat stack/ rack (even NZ there are apartment buildings with no car parking spaces allocated to residents - traznsport choices - electric scooter, e-bike, bicycle (if allowed to keep in apartment room) otherwise off site car/ vehicle parking/ storage. like a boat stack and rack.
https://youtu.be/jmedSc7Ky2M

New nuclear chemistries - there a number of developing nuclear techs from the old Oakridge lab experiments. Pebble bed, thorium, LFT - liquid fluoride thorium reactors, mini-small scale reactors etc. (conversion of current reactors to make them safer).

[cali]

It's like with waste problem. If all keep waste near own houses - all city will be dirty. So decide one place will be dirty and all others - was clean. And electric cars can help with this. And BTW, electricity produced not 100% only by coal power plants. Here In Ukraine we have 53% of electricity produced by Nuclear power plants. So it even 'cheaper' for ecology.
With a rest of your post - I totally agree.Does Chernobyl - Pripyat ring a bell?

[Tarmop]

You can add Fukushima also...and tumours/cancer still occuring from the Chernobyl accident in other countries. Or the fact what the current battery technology actually means to earth. And well, any new car, considered to be "ecofriendly" is still a new car. Manufacturing has a big impact for the environment, since modern cars tend to be quite fragile and need constant maintenance (well, today they call changing the engine after 50k km or so "service") then i`m not so sure some 20 year old car is bad for the environment, especially when well maintained, it is quite ecofrienly also.

[Rally Power]

(...) But to clarify, I don't mean electric cars should be powered by diesel generators :D

That’s a relief…;)

Btw, I’ve focused on current EV’s runing on polluant electricity sources but obvioulsy their whole life cycle must be considered to understand that the general public perception of EV’s as clean means of transport is a lie.

PS: those believing coal will soon be replaced as a power source should read this NY Times piece
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/24/climate/coal-global-warming.html

[Maui J.]

so in a country where it bases its prosperity on oil and natural gas reserves, you buy electric garbage...

ironic.

Agree it is ironic, but it's very clever on Norway's behalf.

For other countries who depend on oil imports, promoting electric vehicles should also be a no brainer. You can either have an internal combustion engined car that needs around 2000 litres of fuel a year imported from the Middle East which means currency leaving off-shore. Or you promote electric vehicles with tax subsides and make huge savings for your country's economy, while promoting green-house gases reduction. It's a win win.

Electric WRC will come, and the smart manufacturers will be there to promote their new eCars to the world. Including the Chinese manufacturers as they are ready to pounce on the new electric vehicle movement.

NOT, do you still buy film for your camera? Don't let the future pass you by!

[Francis44]

Without getting way too offtopic, I simply could not get used to an EV, I have tried but no way I am spending the amount of a new car in something which doesn't excite me in the slightest. I bet they will only conquer 100% market share when generations being born today start looking to buy cars.

But then whats the point?! It looks like in the future no one will drive, so it will be interesting to have the WRC running mobility pods with no steering wheels, with passengers doing nothing, that will be a delight to watch.



NOT, do you still buy film for your camera? Don't let the future pass you by!

Funnily enough younger generations have started to use film again, there has been an increase of so called photo "enthusiasts" which find the use of old film much more interesting.

[AL14]

Yeah, sounds is part of the rally experience. I think that without fuel rally will change a lot, something like what happened at middle century when it stops being an endurance sport with cars driving from Paris to Beijing and it started being what we see today. I think it will change in some other form of sport.
Maybe it will become more circuit-like but with huge laps still in the forests. Or maybe something else. I know it's like blasphemy but I can't see it being like it is now if engine will be elettric.

[denkimi]

Horse driving did not dissapear when the car got popular. The petrol engine will not disappear because of something else, it will only stop being used as the common way of transportation and become a niche for rich enthousiast.

[Mirek]

Horse driving did not dissapear when the car got popular. The petrol engine will not disappear because of something else, it will only stop being used as the common way of transportation and become a niche for rich enthousiast.

That however means that Motorsport with combustion engines as known today will disappear because it will no longer involve manufacturers and since it won't be used as a marketing tool anymore it will also loose majority of its public followers. It will become a small sport for enthusiast instead.

[Norm75]

That however means that Motorsport with combustion engines as known today will disappear because it will no longer involve manufacturers and since it won't be used as a marketing tool anymore it will also loose majority of its public followers. It will become a small sport for enthusiast instead.

Rallying is already a small sport for the enthusiast, so switching to electric in the near future would be a dangerous game.
I used to watch F1 avidly, but that has become boring and whenever I've watched the highlights at night I've fallen asleep. But that is the only Motorsport mainstream news is interested in.
Formula E is hardly setting the world alight with interest, even if they are trying to go down the younger audience route with YouTube live streaming etc.
I thought they were planning a touring car like championship with Tesla's and jaguar e-paces and the like but don't think anything has come of that yet.
That may be an interesting series, if they don't use Mickey mouse tracks like the formula E ones, but my guess is they will be support series for formula E races so that's unlikely.

[Mirek]

Rallying is already a small sport for the enthusiast

That's not true at all. It's the second most popular motorsport after F1.

[N.O.T]

That's not true at all. It's the second most popular motorsport after F1.

lol... motogp, nascar, indycar anyone ?

[Rallyper]

If rallying will become a narrow sport, it surely will have historic cars competing on special rallies. Let´s wait and see how narrow it will be.

[Norm75]

That's not true at all. It's the second most popular motorsport after F1.

Nonsense. Maybe in your country it is, but globally not a chance.

[Mirek]

Nonsense. Maybe in your country it is, but globally not a chance.

That's what Citroën stated in their study few years back. It was likely related to the markets where Citroën is active but definitely not for my country.

[Norm75]

That's what Citroën stated in their study few years back. It was likely related to the markets where Citroën is active but definitely not for my country.

Citroen like to pull out of wrc every so often and concentrate on other Motorsport. Citroen is french, we've had a French world champion for the last 15 years.

You only have to look at any Motorsport website with a forum or comments section to see wrc is well down the order. Take crash.net for instance, wrc nowadays gets no comments whatsoever, and their journos can't even be bothered to write stories until they are about a week old anymore.
This site seems to be the exception where it comes to the amount of interest and comments rallying generates

[EstWRC]

You can’t take popularity based on comments.

[AL14]

I could be very wrong, but it's not about being a niche or not, I think that other than the "sound" there will not be the cultural background for shaping the rally as it is now and as it has been the decades before.
There is no more symbol of the car as the freedom of the individual, the car will not represent anymore your status in the society, there will not be the masculine culture around it. Sounds and performance of actual engine fits perfect with that rapresentations, electric cars and automatic cars don't. This is why in my opinion there will be some huge change.

(Regarding rally as the second motorsport, they were referring to the car motorsports and not in general, so motogp is not taken into consideration. It sounded a little weird to me that Nascar and all those american things were behind WRC in terms of popularity but maybe they are more confined into US borders than WRC into European/Oceania).

[PLuto]

Citroen like to pull out of wrc every so often and concentrate on other Motorsport. Citroen is french, we've had a French world champion for the last 15 years.

You only have to look at any Motorsport website with a forum or comments section to see wrc is well down the order. Take crash.net for instance, wrc nowadays gets no comments whatsoever, and their journos can't even be bothered to write stories until they are about a week old anymore.
This site seems to be the exception where it comes to the amount of interest and comments rallying generates

I font know how reliable is to use crash.net as example here. As a fan of rallysport I am not following that site because there is almost no information about rallysport. So when I am not following circuit racing, there is no sense for me to visit that page.

[Mirek]

You can’t take popularity based on comments.

And especially from a website which is basically useless for WRC fans.

[Norm75]

I font know how reliable is to use crash.net as example here. As a fan of rallysport I am not following that site because there is almost no information about rallysport. So when I am not following circuit racing, there is no sense for me to visit that page.

I completely agree, that website is shite for any rally related news nowadays. It used to be better, and people used to comment on the stories, but literally no one bothers any more.

As for whether it's relevant if people are talking about a sport as to how popular it is, of course it is.
Ok, maybe crash is a bad example, but I'm willing to bet that other Motorsport websites that cover all bases see more traffic and attract more popularity than rallying.

Please don't confuse my comments as an attack on rallying, I'm a fan of a wide range of Motorsport, but the two forms of Motorsport don't want to miss watching are rallying and MotoGP. In my view two of the most exciting forms of Motorsport that exist.
But I am not that blinkered to realise there are other forms of Motorsport that are more popular and attract more attention.

[denkimi]

That however means that Motorsport with combustion engines as known today will disappear because it will no longer involve manufacturers and since it won't be used as a marketing tool anymore it will also loose majority of its public followers. It will become a small sport for enthusiast instead.
does horse sports involve manufacturers? does football?

we don't need manufacturers for motorsport. we never needed them for anything else than their big budgets.


lol... motogp, nascar, indycar anyone ?

i don't know about motogp, but i think none of the other motorsports besides f1 is bigger globally than wrc. outside the usa nobody cares about people going fast and turning to the left.

[Norm75]

does horse sports involve manufacturers? does football?

we don't need manufacturers for motorsport. we never needed them for anything else than their big budgets.



i don't know about motogp, but i think none of the other motorsports besides f1 is bigger globally than wrc. outside the usa nobody cares about people going fast and turning to the left.

I wouldn't bet on it. With the likes of Alonso doing indy it is becoming more popular, but is already huge.

Put it this way, last year when BT sport wasn't showing allive I got fed up the amount of times I had recorded the rallying, or switched on to watch the rallying and it had been bumped off the schedule for indycar, or NASCAR to be shown instead. Even baseball was getting preferential treatment instead of rallying, so what does that tell you?

[Mirek]

I completely agree, that website is shite for any rally related news nowadays. It used to be better, and people used to comment on the stories, but literally no one bothers any more.

As for whether it's relevant if people are talking about a sport as to how popular it is, of course it is.
Ok, maybe crash is a bad example, but I'm willing to bet that other Motorsport websites that cover all bases see more traffic and attract more popularity than rallying.

Please don't confuse my comments as an attack on rallying, I'm a fan of a wide range of Motorsport, but the two forms of Motorsport don't want to miss watching are rallying and MotoGP. In my view two of the most exciting forms of Motorsport that exist.
But I am not that blinkered to realise there are other forms of Motorsport that are more popular and attract more attention.

To take one site be it whatever one is very misleading. Take for example this very forum. The F1 section has 1/3 less posts than WRC section and less than 1/2 of the rallying section. Does that meant that F1 is less popular than rallying? Of course not but it means that the rally community on the motorsportforums.com is larger than the F1 one.

And the WRC section has 1000x more posts than the Formula-E here... :D

Regarding Moto-GP it again depends on the region. Here in CZ I would say it's about as popular as rallying. Even the two biggest events - Brno Moto GP and ERC Barum Rally has basically same number of spectators (but the percentage of foreign spectators is much higer at Moto GP than in Zlín).

[Rally Power]

Citroen like to pull out of wrc every so often and concentrate on other Motorsport. Citroen is french, we've had a French world champion for the last 15 years.
You only have to look at any Motorsport website with a forum or comments section to see wrc is well down the order. Take crash.net for instance, wrc nowadays gets no comments whatsoever, and their journos can't even be bothered to write stories until they are about a week old anymore.
This site seems to be the exception where it comes to the amount of interest and comments rallying generates

Citroen was only mentioning the FIA Series and in those the WRC is actually the most popular, after F1.

Once we're living on a social media era, why not take the 'likes' or 'followers' numbers that each motorsport series has on their official pages? It's quite easy to check and probably more reliable than looking at forum comments. Here's Facebook 'likes' list:

Moto GP: 13 267 636;
F1: 7 396 496;
Nascar: 5 104 832;
MXGP (Motocross): 2 689 854;
WRC: 2 611 603;
Dakar: 2 107 559 ;
RB Air Race: 1 915 938;
Formula E: 1 490 641;
Superbikes: 1 337 246;
WTCR: 1 004 277;
Indycar: 884 876;
DTM: 649 950;
WRX: 544 040;
Blancpain GT Series: 379 462;
WEC: 307 984;
ERC: 280 063;
IMSA: 172 340.

Under 100k series aren’t listed but for sure some others with more than that are missing. Btw, WEC numbers are slim as most fans follow the 24h Le Mans page: 1 282 841.

The overall order is probably the same on the other social media, but it'd be nice if someone could also look on Twitter, Instagram or Youtube.

Maybe that way we'll finnaly believe that the WRC is actually popular and far from being a niche series, like some continue to pretend.

[Norm75]

Of course Mirek, and totally depends how many nationals are competing in each series that counts towards how popular any given sport is in that country.

Czech only have Abraham in MotoGP, so the interest in that country would be less than say Spain or Italy where MotoGP would far outway rallying in popularity.

I did say that this website is an exception to the rule regarding rallying popularity and the amount of posts, as it seems the only website where many contributers pull together and post their resources of information so can easily be accessed on the one site.

I think as a whole though if you were to look at all other websites combined, speedweek, motorsport.com autosport and the other nationalities Motorsport websites then WRC probably isn't the second most popular Motorsport series.
I think it's relevant to look at website posts as it is a world wide resource and not just country specific.

[N.O.T]

a glorious day for REAL motorsport... electric moto-e garbage spontaneously combust and the majority of bikes go up in flames jeopardizing the whole championship...

what a glorious sight !!!!

https://jalopnik.com/motoes-future-goes-up-in-flames-1833287978

[Rallyper]

a glorious day for REAL motorsport... electric moto-e garbage spontaneously combust and the majority of bikes go up in flames jeopardizing the whole championship...

what a glorious sight !!!!

https://jalopnik.com/motoes-future-goes-up-in-flames-1833287978

Not only driving the vehicles might be dangerous, even charging batteries. Most probable reason for fire I should reccon.

[RS]

Once we're living on a social media era, why not take the 'likes' or 'followers' numbers that each motorsport series has on their official pages?

It’s quite easy to buy likes and followers AFAIK. I wouldn’t guarantee that list is all that reliable either.

[Norm75]

Not only driving the vehicles might be dangerous, even charging batteries. Most probable reason for fire I should reccon.Well, It can't have been Keith Flint . . . .

The actual cause of the fire was apparent a short circuit in the battery pack of the charging system, although it is said that there weren't any of the moto-e bikes hooked up to the charging system.

The first round at Jerez has been cancelled. The following round is in doubt, but the manufacturer of the bikes is confident they can replace them and still have a 5 round series this year. They are a support class for MotoGP which currently have 19 rounds, so it's just a case of rejigging the the calendar so it's still a 5 round series (sorry N.O.T)

[Mirek]

The actual cause of the fire was apparent a short circuit in the battery pack of the charging system, although it is said that there weren't any of the moto-e bikes hooked up to the charging system.

Well, how many times in the history a whole paddock of any motorsport series burned at once?

[Rallyper]

Well, It can't have been Keith Flint . . . .

The actual cause of the fire was apparent a short circuit in the battery pack of the charging system, although it is said that there weren't any of the moto-e bikes hooked up to the charging system.

The first round at Jerez has been cancelled. The following round is in doubt, but the manufacturer of the bikes is confident they can replace them and still have a 5 round series this year. They are a support class for MotoGP which currently have 19 rounds, so it's just a case of rejigging the the calendar so it's still a 5 round series (sorry N.O.T)

Short circuit just like that. Don´t believe it for a minute.

When charging overheating is very likely to occur. No one knows what could happen then. Even charging your smartphone without watching could be reason for fire...

[Norm75]

Well, how many times in the history a whole paddock of any motorsport series burned at once?
Is that question posted for me to answer, in an I'm sticking up for electric bikes so need to justify there existence kind of way.
Because I couldn't give a toss about electric bikes, just answering a question as to what caused the fire.

[mknight]

I normally enjoy watching the CC Kitchen table as it is something different than just reading press-releases stuff with 2 added sentences that D. Evans does, but the latest one is really weak:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXUC2zeu5P4

14 out of 22 minutes of effective talking time are about Meeke and how brilliant and matured he is now.
- Starts with multiple times repeating how he has 3 top 5 finishes this year (when his placements are 6-6-5, 2 of these are last WRC without SR)
- then after some 7 minutes changes that into saying how Meeke can deliver top 4-5 finishes consistently at each rally (based on what?)
- and tops it by saying that he for sure can go push for wins when told to (not proved in Toyota)

Quite strange, as both in 2018 and most of 2017 CC managed to be "well balanced" relative to Meeke.

Yes Meeke has been doing ok so far this year. Yes it looks like he is a bit more "stable" in both his mental approach and results.

But on the other hand he also managed to get "stable" 6-7th places in C3 when not pushing, the problem was speed combined with consistency, either there was one or the other. He has not shown that in Toyota just yet. Might do that, might even do that already in Corsica, but it's just too early to start celebrations based on the performance in the first 3 rallies. (Note that I praised Meeke after Monte last year with about the same arguments)

[Norm75]

To be fair Kris has had podium pace on 2 out of the 3 rallies this year so far, until puncture, then shown speed on power stages.
Much better approach this year compared to last, where after problems he would still try and get scratch times and ultimately bin it. It'll come.

[AnttiL]

http://urheiluuutiset.com/hyundailta-vahvistus-loeb-mukana-chilessa-kokemus-mita-ei-muilta-loydy/

This Finnish article states Loeb will drive Chile. He has the best experience in the team which will be needed in a rally new to everyone. Earlier it was announced that Sordo does Argentina. Mikkelsen and Neuville will drive both.

[tommeke_B]

Press release from Hyundai:

Hyundai Motorsport announces line-up for South American double-header

Hyundai Motorsport has revealed its crews for the forthcoming rounds of the 2019 FIA World Rally Championship (WRC) in South America
Thierry Neuville and Andreas Mikkelsen will contest both Rally Argentina (April 25-28) and Rally Chile (May 9-12)
Dani Sordo will pilot the third Hyundai i20 Coupe WRC in Argentina before handing over to Sébastien Loeb for WRC’s newest round in Chile.

Alzenau, Germany

March 25, 2019 – Hyundai Motorsport will approach the FIA World Rally Championship (WRC) double-header in South America with a combination of crews as it seeks a competitive advantage on two contrasting gravel events, Rally Argentina and Rally Chile.

Belgians Thierry Neuville and Nicolas Gilsoul, winners in Argentina back in 2017, will be joined by Norwegian crew Andreas Mikkelsen and Anders Jæger-Amland in both events, offering consistency from one of WRC’s established rallies to its most recent addition.

Spaniards Dani Sordo and Carlos del Barrio will line up in the Hyundai i20 Coupe WRC in Argentina, before handing over to Sébastien Loeb and Daniel Elena for Chile.

Rally Argentina, which has been won twice by Hyundai Motorsport crews in the past three seasons, offers the opportunity to recapture performances shown in Mexico earlier this month. Rally Chile, meanwhile, will be a brand new event, and therefore a level playing field, for all participants.

Team Director Andrea Adamo said: “We are looking forward with great anticipation to our South American double-header in Argentina and Chile. When looking at our line-up for these events we wanted to deliver a mix of consistency and also offer the opportunity to all our crews. Thierry and Andreas will participate in both events, and will be ready to compete at the highest level. For Dani, Argentina is an important rally, and we hope he will be able to show the same high rhythm and performance that he demonstrated in Mexico. Sébastien’s experience is like no other in WRC so to be able to make use of that in our first visit to Chile will be very important for us as a team.”

Rally Argentina takes place from April 25-28, with WRC’s inaugural Rally Chile following shortly after from May 9-12.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Loeb's experience of driving in Chile in the Dakar wont have done him any harm either.

[AnttiL]

Loeb's experience of driving in Chile in the Dakar wont have done him any harm either.

No benefit either

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No benefit either

It's still experience.

[spiderem]

I'm not sure how you guys read the Hyundai's press release, but to me it sounds like Mikkelsen has no seat guaranteed anymore. Just a feeling.

[Zeakiwi2]

Chile did not want Dakar but are hosting WRC. Is WRC seen as better value country promotion for the expense, by the analysis of the Chilean number/ financial people? Probably select roads in that area that might be a mix of roads similar to Argentina/ Brazil and Australia/ New Zealand. Expect WRC Chile could be a strong wrc rally place holder if it is well run. Probably be preferred to Turkey by competitors.

[AnttiL]

It's still experience.

Chile is expected to be a smoother and faster rally in the style of Wales and New Zealand. The value of Loeb's experience is to help find the setup to those roads quicker. But I can't see how a rally raid driven with completely different stages and cars will help in that.

[steve.mandzij]

Chile did not want Dakar but are hosting WRC. Is WRC seen as better value country promotion for the expense, by the analysis of the Chilean number/ financial people? Probably select roads in that area that might be a mix of roads similar to Argentina/ Brazil and Australia/ New Zealand. Expect WRC Chile could be a strong wrc rally place holder if it is well run. Probably be preferred to Turkey by competitors.Chile backed out of Dakar for environmental reasons, I think; you know, cars tearing up virgin land. Rally cars go on already established paths.

[er88]

I'm not sure how you guys read the Hyundai's press release, but to me it sounds like Mikkelsen has no seat guaranteed anymore. Just a feeling.Yeah he doesn't it seems, but I'd still expect him to do all the gravel rallies.

[mknight]

I'm not sure how you guys read the Hyundai's press release, but to me it sounds like Mikkelsen has no seat guaranteed anymore. Just a feeling.

Well since he is not driving Corsica he obviously doesn't have guaranteed seat.

This press release is, however, completely neutral on that.
If you mean they don't write something like "our regular drivers" then obviously, they can't write that just before starting a rally without him.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

This year's Wales Rally GB (3-6 October) will have a vibrant new home right in the heart of Llandudno on the coast of north Wales.

https://www.walesrallygb.com/news/4320.php#.XJtOg3WnwSx

[GigiGalliNo1]

This is nice news!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190401/dd462ea73c99a59b4269020f0c1057b8.jpg

[AnttiL]

This is nice news!

Was it posted today?

[GigiGalliNo1]

About 20 mins ago.

[EstWRC]

lol

[GigiGalliNo1]

God damn it. I was fooled!!!

[Rallyper]

God damn it. I was fooled!!!

:) :) Where is NOT?

[dimviii]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/142513/evans-meeke-want-safety-pushtopass-added

[Zeakiwi2]

Push to Pass has been in the 'rally safe' for years.
https://youtu.be/iDWseIQE42U?t=194

[N.O.T]

:) :) Where is NOT?

he is just low intelligence, if you follow him around for a bit you will realise that the problem is indeed real, so i don;t think you have to make fun of him anymore, just let him post in here whatever he wants, for guys that are not that complicated its a way out of real life and gives them the impression that they fit in in the community.

making fun of the disabled when the disability is real is not fun...

[GigiGalliNo1]

Mega lol NOT.

But if you think about it, wouldn’t it have been some fact to it - he give his seat up or car up for a better up coming driver who deserves it? A cruel joke for the driver!

[AnttiL]

Now it seems it's true :D

[Tarmop]

Well, my reaction yesterday was the same, but now the news is still there with Julian Porter praising Bertelli for that just atm. Have to wait until the entrylist is published.

[AnttiL]

Now he announced it's an April Fool's joke...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ha ha.. never believe anything on April 1st.

[AnttiL]

Ha ha.. never believe anything on April 1st.

Official WRC and Julian Porter tweeted it today

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Official WRC and Julian Porter tweeted it today

Yep. Unbelievable.

[RS]

It was a bit of a shit joke tbh, especially as Andolfi actually would probably do a better job than Bertelli.

[Rally Hokkaido]

I just heard some news from NZ. Shortly after showing off his Hyundai AP4 rally car's new livery, Hayden Paddon announced that he has bought a Hyundai TCR car. It seems he doesn't have a race programme for it yet (TCR will start in Australia this season and in New Zealand in 2020), but mentioned that he will use it to sharpen his tarmac skills.

[Rally Hokkaido]

Hayden Paddon's cars for 2019

[AnttiL]

Hayden Paddon's cars for 2019

Not WRC news or rumors.

[Hartusvuori]

Not WRC news or rumors.

C'mon.

[Rally Hokkaido]

Not WRC news or rumors.

I believe it is, as Hayden has said his 2019 programme is part of his strategy for returning to WRC.

[AnttiL]

Maybe worth telling what cars they are? The right one is a TCR car, not even a rally car at all. The other is Paddon's AP4 car which he will use in some NZ rallies.

[Rally Hokkaido]

Maybe worth telling what cars they are? The right one is a TCR car, not even a rally car at all. The other is Paddon's AP4 car which he will use in some NZ rallies.

Hi AnttiL, I think you missed post #1734

[racerx1979]

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/paddon-tcr-wrc-return-bid/4365555/

[AnttiL]

Hi AnttiL, I think you missed post #1734

True. Sorry :)

[Eli]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2019/04/05/japan-kehrt-2020-in-die-rallye-weltmeisterschaft-zurueck/

I know it's been spoken of sometime but now it seems the Rally of Japan only needs to be signed off by the FIA. It seems Kenya & Japan will be added at the expense of 2 European rallies, the main contenders for leaving are Sardegna, Corsica & Germany. Again I know it's not new (news) but it seems imminent that this will happen.

[Allez Andruet]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2019/04/05/japan-kehrt-2020-in-die-rallye-weltmeisterschaft-zurueck/

I know it's been spoken of sometime but now it seems the Rally of Japan only needs to be signed off by the FIA. It seems Kenya & Japan will be added at the expense of 2 European rallies, the main contenders for leaving are Sardegna, Corsica & Germany. Again I know it's not new (news) but it seems imminent that this will happen.

https://twitter.com/rallyplus/status/1114500581664657408

According to Twitter, this past week Mouton was in Kenya and Ciesla in Japan. It probably means business.

[pantealex]

Hayden Paddon's cars for 2019

He had money for new car and he bought TCR-model...

Why not (i20) R5 ???

He is still doing rallies with very very old model i20 which isn´t even FIA legal. No chance to compete even in WRC Australia...

[deephouse]

He had money for new car and he bought TCR-model...

Why not (i20) R5 ???

He is still doing rallies with very very old model i20 which isn´t even FIA legal. No chance to compete even in WRC Australia...

Hyundai could/should gave him one R5 to attack at Pro. But hey they don't care like other teams don't.

[GigiGalliNo1]

HMSG don't care for him at all!

[AnttiL]

Hyundai also dropped Jari Huttunen from the WRC2 program. Or actually, Huttunen just said in a recent interview that he still hasn't been told he's dropped, but no drives either. Not sure if it has to do with Andrea Adamo being previously the R5 program manager, has anyone filled those shoes?

As for Paddon, it truly seems he's just cementing his future in the NZ motorsport scene and not investing in a WRC comeback.

[Allez Andruet]

Hyundai also dropped Jari Huttunen from the WRC2 program. Or actually, Huttunen just said in a recent interview that he still hasn't been told he's dropped, but no drives either.

Maybe Hyundai could invest some of the money saved from the cancelled WRC2 program into management courses. "How to manage your employees" would be good to start with.

[Rally Hokkaido]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2019/04/05/japan-kehrt-2020-in-die-rallye-weltmeisterschaft-zurueck/

I know it's been spoken of sometime but now it seems the Rally of Japan only needs to be signed off by the FIA. It seems Kenya & Japan will be added at the expense of 2 European rallies, the main contenders for leaving are Sardegna, Corsica & Germany. Again I know it's not new (news) but it seems imminent that this will happen.

Yes, it does seem like a deal was done during Oliver Ciesla's visit last week. An official announcement is scheduled for the 14th June. There is a new Rally Japan website up (wrc-jpn.com, mostly in Japanese so far) and another candidate event scheduled for November. The official logo has also been announced. http://www.wrc-jpn.com/common/data/MEDIARELEASE_0406_2019No4_j.pdf

[deephouse]

As for Paddon, it truly seems he's just cementing his future in the NZ motorsport scene and not investing in a WRC comeback.

What should he do instead. He will show what he have in his sleeves and maybe just maybe he will be back (hoping that maybe he will get a call during this season to step up again instead of someone... I will not going further). The stupidest thing would be to pay for a one or two outings. Then all will assume that he will always pay for drive and will be not better than Ostberg...

[Mk2 RS2000]

He had money for new car and he bought TCR-model...

Why not (i20) R5 ???

He is still doing rallies with very very old model i20 which isn´t even FIA legal. No chance to compete even in WRC Australia...

1. Are you sure that he brought it?
2. AP4 Car allows for some more testing of development of componentry as a test bed vehicle than the R5 does before reverting to AP4 specs for NZRC and/or APRC events
3. Regional homologation and it will be interesting to see it up against the top European R5 cars should he take it to WRC Australia.

[AnttiL]

What should he do instead.

Do some drives in WRC2. But I understand what he's doing is building on his future beyond the WRC, although at the same time is not really helping the WRC return in any ways.

[Allez Andruet]

I agree with AnttiL regarding Paddon. The most important thing is to stay relevant. Just like Mikkelsen did in early 2017. Be around, do recces, have occasional outings in some R5 etc. Things change quickly, and if Paddon fails to keep his name in the mix (something that requires effort, won't happen automatically), the reputation soon starts to fade away. But as said, it's totally understandable what Paddon is doing for his long-term career in the motorsport business, just not for the WRC.

[AnttiL]

In comparison to the two other WRC refugees, Østberg has even tested Citroen's WRC car and will have some WRC2Pro drives, where he gets to recce the events and show his face on the WRC broadcasts. Breen has done some tarmac rallies in Ireland and Italy, but not even on ERC level. Paddon hasn't driven yet any rallies and according to his plans he won't be rallying in WRC level or European rallies at all.