[WRC] News & Rumours 2019

[AnttiL]

https://rallysportmag.com/detailed-wrc-changes-proposed-for-2019-championship-190918/

Proposed changes for 2019

- Permanent driver numbers except no1 for champion
- Less mechanics per car on a rally
- Less testing days
- Free testing area diameter from 50 km to 10 km from team hq (bad news for Toyota)
- Car must have four rotating wheels at the start of a stage (remember Meeke in Portugal)

[Eli]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/138815/meeke-on-toyota-radar-for-2019-wrc-return

Toyota wants Meeke for 2019 apparently.

[AnttiL]

https://rallysportmag.com/detailed-wrc-changes-proposed-for-2019-championship-190918/

Proposed changes for 2019

- Permanent driver numbers except no1 for champion

Thinking further, would this mean the end of what Citroen has been doing with rotating their driver numbers, probably to choose who gets the fresh parts?

[Franky]

https://rallysportmag.com/detailed-wrc-changes-proposed-for-2019-championship-190918/

Proposed changes for 2019

- Permanent driver numbers except no1 for champion
- Less mechanics per car on a rally
- Less testing days
- Free testing area diameter from 50 km to 10 km from team hq (bad news for Toyota)
- Car must have four rotating wheels at the start of a stage (remember Meeke in Portugal)

First one. I hate it. I don't have any other words for it as it is literally stupid. It's not circuit racing, where you have a rather fixed number of entrants and most of them don't change for a decade anyway.

Reduction of testing area diameter. Think it is literally to fight Toyota.

Less mechanics per car. How much do they actually win from that? Or there are mechanics at a rally who do not do anything?

[AnttiL]

Less mechanics per car. How much do they actually win from that? Or there are mechanics at a rally who do not do anything?

Less personnel working, less parts that can be changed ==> less costs for a team

[Franky]

Less personnel working, less parts that can be changed ==> less costs for a team

Possible more failures -> Higher RD cost for constructing stronger components

There's no cost saving at the top of any sport.

[N.O.T]

There's no cost saving at the top of any sport.

what ?

[tomhlord]

Less testing days means fewer costs, sure, but this combined with the homologation joker system could also mean if your car isn't designed perfectly to start with, it's then hard to catch up. This potentially leads to the danger of a dominant team, or more funds spent on initial R&D.

[mknight]

Totally up for limiting testing (both days and anti-Toyota range, you kind of have to do both limits at same time).

Testing costs a lot with no clear benefit for spectators.

[OHL]

Less personnel working, less parts that can be changed ==> less costs for a team

That won't happen though and here is why,
The proposal is to allow 9 technicians, in reality this means 9 armbands, not people. The teams who have larger budgets will have fresh technicians and specialists on the sidelines to swap in and out of armbands. They'll put 6 techs on one car if they need to in order to change several components at the same time. It happens now and will continue to happen no matter the restriction. There is no cost savings here.

The reality of what will happen to most teams is the mechanics will be working even harder creating a potential safety issue. This is not the place to attempt to save money, which it won't, as there are other places that cuts could be made.

[Mirek]

The funny (or not so funny) thing about this savings is that just one year a go they introduced brand new much more expensive cars.

[AndyRAC]

More muddled thinking - they want to cut costs, but always do it the wrong way.....

[dnb]

Thinking further, would this mean the end of what Citroen has been doing with rotating their driver numbers, probably to choose who gets the fresh parts?

how is driver number connected to getting fresh parts?

[AnttiL]

how is driver number connected to getting fresh parts?

Parts are linked through the numbers. For example Car #11 must use the same engine and differential in Sardegna and Turkey. But if the car retires in Sardegna, it can be fitted with fresh parts. Then the team could choose who drives the car #11 with fresh parts. Also, we could assume that Al-Qassimi's driving pace gives more wear and tear to certain parts so it's a good strategy to rotate his driving number.

Another thing related to this was when Mikkelsen joined Hyundai a year ago, he had to do some rallies with Paddon's differential, which didn't suit his driving style.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please :)

[sonnybobiche]

Just when you let down your guard and start to think that the sport is heading in the right direction, the central planners decide that what we really need is more of their goddamn stupid ideas.


These would be applied on January 1, 2019 and include cost saving measures such as reducing the number of mechanics allowed to work on rally cars from 12 to nine for a three car team, and from eight to six for two car teams. There’s also a plan to reduce the number of test days per year from 55 to 42 [...]

Economically illiterate Moseley-era schemes.


and to reduce the maximum permitted special stage distance from the current 500km (which has never been used) to between 300 and 350km.

Why? Because some guy with more power than brains arbitrarily decided that all rallies everywhere should be around 300km long? As if the problem right now is too many stages.


To restrict tactical retirements at the end of a rally in order to fit a different engine for the next event, there are proposed changes as to when a retirement can take place, and the number of engines which can be sealed and available during a season.

Again, straight out of the Mosley school of managed decline. WRONG DIRECTION.


Another proposed change, following a dramatic incident in Portugal, is that a car must always have four rotating wheels at the start of a stage, effective immediately.

OK, now it's like they're trying to ruin the sport. No, seriously. What are they trying to accomplish with this? What effect do they think it will have on the appeal of the sport to no longer see spectacular scenes of broken cars chugging along?

It's just so frustrating to see this keep happening over and over, and the same people always put their hands up in the end and say, "It's no one's fault the sport is struggling! Young people just don't care about racing anymore." No, you don't care about racing anymore.

[mknight]

The funny (or not so funny) thing about this savings is that just one year a go they introduced brand new much more expensive cars.

Point with the more expensive cars was that they should look more spectacular (power+wings) and they added center diff so that they are "safer". Whether they succeeded and whether it was worth the cost is one thing.

Number of test days has no direct positive effect for spectators (well unless you count those few people that get to the test and then spend most of the time waiting for that 1 car to appear), which is why it is different.

[Tarmop]

Well, testing= development, speed, equal competition idealistically so should have a positive effect.

[denkimi]

There's no cost saving at the top of any sport.
Exactly. Teams will spend every last bit of money they can get their hands on. If they have money left they will hire an extra engineer to design more aerodynamic rear view mirrors, or to design a lighter battery bracket.

If they really want to cut costs, they need to shorten the rally's. Shakedown on friday, perhaps some special stage at night too. And a full saturday, sunday and the night between. Thats saves money to everyone.

[Tarmop]

What exactly would save so much money? 50 less SS km?

[denkimi]

What exactly would save so much money? 50 less SS km?
One or two days worth of hospitality. That might be a small cost for the factory teams, but its a big cost for everybody else who has to stick to a budget.

What's the point of having rally's last 4 or 5 days if they can easily do the same km's in 2 days.

[Tarmop]

Well, less rally2 finishers probably, places where distances between stages and service are long would also suffer.

[sonnybobiche]

One or two days worth of hospitality. That might be a small cost for the factory teams, but its a big cost for everybody else who has to stick to a budget.

What's the point of having rally's last 4 or 5 days if they can easily do the same km's in 2 days.

One or two days of hospitality? How much do you think hotels cost vs, say, shipping a race car to an international event and back?

But I agree that they could do the current stage mileage in two days. The FIA just doesn't allow it, because it's the FIA.

[AndyRAC]

One or two days of hospitality? How much do you think hotels cost vs, say, shipping a race car to an international event and back?

But I agree that they could do the current stage mileage in two days. The FIA just doesn't allow it, because it's the FIA.

Exactly! Most of the Sunday mileage is so small they could do it on a Saturday night - in fact I wonder why they haven't allowed some events to do this to see if it works. A Saturday evening Power stage could work on some events.....
But, they straitjacket all events to finish Sunday lunch time, so don't allow it.

[GravelBen]

Point with the more expensive cars was that they should look more spectacular (power+wings) and they added center diff so that they are "safer".

When was the centre diff control ever about being "safe"? I thought their argument was that it gives more freedom to adapt car behaviour to different drivers preference.

[AnttiL]

OK, now it's like they're trying to ruin the sport. No, seriously. What are they trying to accomplish with this? What effect do they think it will have on the appeal of the sport to no longer see spectacular scenes of broken cars chugging along?

We will still see cars chugging along the stages when they have been broken during it. Three-wheelin' on liaison has been banned for a decade. Now the difference is just that you can't start a stage with three wheels. What Meeke did in Portugal was change in a tyre with only a wheel, no rubber, to save the deflating tyre to go through the liaison to service. This kind of trickery won't be allowed anymore.




Why? Because some guy with more power than brains arbitrarily decided that all rallies everywhere should be around 300km long? As if the problem right now is too many stages.


Show me a rally which has taken advantage of the 500 km limit and not just going near the minimum 300 km? Although, Monte, Mexico and some others have been between 350 to 400 km in the latest years, but it won't be much of a shortening for them still. And Monte does not have to obey any rules anyway :D

[sonnybobiche]

Three-wheelin' on liaison has been banned for a decade.

I think it was banned 2-3 years ago at most.


What Meeke did in Portugal was change in a tyre with only a wheel, no rubber, to save the deflating tyre to go through the liaison to service. This kind of trickery won't be allowed anymore.


And that's a good thing, why?


Show me a rally which has taken advantage of the 500 km limit and not just going near the minimum 300 km? Although, Monte, Mexico and some others have been between 350 to 400 km in the latest years, but it won't be much of a shortening for them still. And Monte does not have to obey any rules anyway

So again, why did they feel the need to pass a new regulation to make it impossible to have more than 350 km?

I know why. It's because they wanted to have a justification for when they bring back "Safari" and it's only 300 km long. "Oh yeah, we wanted to make it really long like the old safari, but these rules that we just passed forbid it, so it's going to have to be 300km going in circles on private land. Sooooooorry. ;)"

[AnttiL]

I think it was banned 2-3 years ago at most.

Time flies. http://juwra.com/rules_2007.html


A small but important clarification is presented: during liaison (ie. road) sections, competing car must have all of it's four wheels intact. No more three-wheeling on public roads.

[Allez Andruet]

It's because they wanted to have a justification for when they bring back "Safari" and it's only 300 km long. "Oh yeah, we wanted to make it really long like the old safari, but these rules that we just passed forbid it, so it's going to have to be 300km going in circles on private land. Sooooooorry. ;)"

Like it was ever going to be like the old Safari... Wake up.

[AnttiL]

A 500 km Safari would have still been a tenth of the Safari of the 80's.

[AnttiL]

Very second-hand-information as I only read this on another forum, but apparently a person associated with FIA has spoken today at the Finnish Rally Championship event radio broadcast that FIA is planning some sort of "virtual chicanes" for WRC, where the drivers need to slow down to 40 km/h on a certain area or something of the kind. If it's true, it's just...I don't have words to describe...

[Tauri_J]

that cant be true

[EstWRC]

Is it April’s fools already?

[gheeD]

Yes, in the rallyradio they were talking about it. Also mentioned that a possible stop mid-stage was thought about but apparently they know themselves too that that would be bad idea for road conditions as its essentially a secondary start line midstage that would create big ruts.

Also i dont remember if it was talk of FIA, but the finnish rally championship organisers that were trying to come up with these ideas. I think if you can go back in the radio broadcast it was somewhere mid stage 4 where they talked about Pietarinen having 136 kmh average speed.

[AnttiL]

That explains, if it’s just an idea for the local series. Sorry, I should have checked it before posting but I was just so shocked of the thought...

[gheeD]

Yeah, reason for it seemed to be making normal chicanes to slow down stages require too much effort and manpower that AKK were exploring other options such as virtual chicanes to force slowdown zones on stages. I was listening to it and only recall talk about AKK being behind it and the radio ppl said they should keep trying to innovate other solutions for the problem :D

[N.O.T]

Very second-hand-information as I only read this on another forum, but apparently a person associated with FIA has spoken today at the Finnish Rally Championship event radio broadcast that FIA is planning some sort of "virtual chicanes" for WRC, where the drivers need to slow down to 40 km/h on a certain area or something of the kind. If it's true, it's just...I don't have words to describe...

did gigigalli1s spirit possessed you ???

stop circulating stupid rumours... what are you ? some 12 year old special kid that cannot filter the information it receives ?

why would they do that ? they find hay balls too expensive ???

[SubaruNorway]

Here is something similar from Australia called "speed zone" I guess it's fine if It's in a remote area where there's not much to see anyway. Would suck a bit if it was just before a cool corner though.
No hay bales to hit at least which very often causes a lot of damage.

https://youtu.be/eXXV10bJcRQ?t=130

[cali]

Holy moly, what an idea. I have even better proposition - why don't they just come with an idea that the slowest guy wins the rally. No more do they need to worry about speedtraps or speed in general....

[mknight]

If there is a long straight and today you would put a chicane. You can instead add electronically controlled zone where for example the car has to slow down to 60 kph at some point within given 100m zone. You'd get sound or a light that turns on once you hit that speed and after that you are free to accelerate. Obviously there would have to be small penalties for either not slowing down enough or for not slowing within the given zone.

It sounds more artificial than chicanes from hay-balls but on the positive side:
- no damage to car from hitting them
- no unfair situation when the balls get moved
- no need to address penalties for moving the balls
- no need to have people on site to both move the balls and hand out penalties to drivers

So yeah don't get all the screaming going on here. Obviously it's better to have stages that don't need slowing down.

[N.O.T]

If there is a long straight and today you would put a chicane. You can instead add electronically controlled zone where for example the car has to slow down to 60 kph at some point within given 100m zone. You'd get sound or a light that turns on once you hit that speed and after that you are free to accelerate. Obviously there would have to be small penalties for either not slowing down enough or for not slowing within the given zone.

It sounds more artificial than chicanes from hay-balls but on the positive side:
- no damage to car from hitting them
- no unfair situation when the balls get moved
- no need to address penalties for moving the balls
- no need to have people on site to both move the balls and hand out penalties to drivers

So yeah don't get all the screaming going on here. Obviously it's better to have stages that don't need slowing down.

you should hang out with gigigalli1... your IQs are a perfect match...

[GravelBen]

Here is something similar from Australia called "speed zone" I guess it's fine if It's in a remote area where there's not much to see anyway. Would suck a bit if it was just before a cool corner though.
No hay bales to hit at least which very often causes a lot of damage.

https://youtu.be/eXXV10bJcRQ?t=130

There are sometimes limited speed zones in NZ rally stages too - not to reduce average stage speeds (at least I've never heard of that) but when there are unfinished roadworks or bridge repairs etc that would be unsafe or destroyed by a hundred cars hammering over it at rally pace, they have a speed limit through that section. Think local councils probably make it a requirement for the road closing in those situations.

[Rallyper]

Just start over again from square one. Use new "Group A" regulations for WRC. Standard engines, gearboxes... etz...

Just kidding... Not all ...

[AnttiL]

http://urheiluuutiset.com/gryazin-paljasti-missa-ja-milloin-tekee-mm-debyyttinsa-siella-olisi-tarkoitus-olla-mukana/

Gryazin is planning to make his WRC(2) debut in Rally Sweden 2019 in Fabia R5

[pantealex]

http://urheiluuutiset.com/gryazin-paljasti-missa-ja-milloin-tekee-mm-debyyttinsa-siella-olisi-tarkoitus-olla-mukana/

Gryazin is planning to make his WRC(2) debut in Rally Sweden 2019 in Fabia R5

And to stop factory rumours: He will use SRT (Sports Racing Technologies) Fabia.

[KiwiWRCfan]

There are sometimes limited speed zones in NZ rally stages too - not to reduce average stage speeds (at least I've never heard of that) but when there are unfinished roadworks or bridge repairs etc that would be unsafe or destroyed by a hundred cars hammering over it at rally pace, they have a speed limit through that section. Think local councils probably make it a requirement for the road closing in those situations.

June 2016 Taranaki Tarmac rally in New Zealand used virtual chicances to reduce average speeds on some long straights. Prior to event many competitors expressed doubts about how it would work, on the day it seemed to work really well. Because they were in middle of long straights it did not affect spectating opportunities. You can experience a virtual chicane between 1:19 and 1:23 of this onboard video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n44SFcXxUwM

[fredfush]

[QUOTE=SubaruNorway;1193194]Here is something similar from Australia called "speed zone" I guess it's fine if It's in a remote area where there's not much to see anyway. Would suck a bit if it was just before a cool corner though.
No hay bales to hit at least which very often causes a lot of damage.

Also it does less damage to the roads. This has been made much easier with the adoption of RallySafe tracking.
Australian Rally Championship regulations:
Virtual Chicane (VC): Competitors must achieve a specified minimum speed limit at some
point within a specified length of road of at least 200m. Signs must be used to indicate the start and finish of the VC. Approach warning boards are to be erected at 300m, 200m, and 100m before the VC zone. Minimum speed may be measured by CAMS approved radar speed measuring device or GPS tracking device in the car. It is the competitor’s responsibility to achieve the minimum speed in the event of a supplied GPS tracking device failing to operate correctly.
Penalties are:
(A) Lowest speed in Zone less than 5 km/h over the limit - 5 secs.
(B) Lowest speed in Zone between 5 and 10 km/h over the limit - 15 secs.
(C) Lowest speed in Zone more than 10 km/h over the limit - 60 secs.
The Stewards may determine such other penalties as may be deemed fit, in addition to the penalties outlined above.

[GravelBen]

June 2016 Taranaki Tarmac rally in New Zealand used virtual chicances to reduce average speeds on some long straights. Prior to event many competitors expressed doubts about how it would work, on the day it seemed to work really well. Because they were in middle of long straights it did not affect spectating opportunities. You can experience a virtual chicane between 1:19 and 1:23 of this onboard video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n44SFcXxUwM

Ah yes, not too intrusive and at least its the same for everyone which doesn't always happen with haybale chicanes. I bow to your superior knowledge of rally trivia! :D

[mknight]

Funny the rules are very much what I wrote without ever hearing about it.

[denkimi]

I don't get what's wrong with ordinary chicanes. They only do damage if you hit them, just like every other obstacle on a rally stage.
At least a chicane keeps the rally spirit of driving around things as fast as possible without hitting them.

[Andre Oliveira]

It seems Rally de Portugal will be held in June (first weekend).

[AnttiL]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139102/wrc-2019-calendar-situation-getting-crazy

Still no 2019 calendar

[dnb]

we already knew that we have wait for that Council meeting

[Eli]

Nothing much to know really, Imho Australia will get back to it's September slot, Wales end of November, Turkey stays & Chile & Japan are probably in. Only questions left unanswered, who will be dropped- Corsica or Germany? and what will happen with Sardegna?

[AnttiL]

Nothing much to know really, Imho Australia will get back to it's September slot, Wales end of November, Turkey stays & Chile & Japan are probably in. Only questions left unanswered, who will be dropped- Corsica or Germany? and what will happen with Sardegna?

If Portugal is run in early June, the place of Sardegna, would this imply that Chile is added between Mexico and Argentina, pushing Corsica into mid-May?

[dupanton]

Belgian Speed magazine came with an interesting article today. Although it's based on rumours and a lot of ifs, this is what they say:
R5 might be allowed to take points for the manufacturers next year.
Skoda might consider to register als a manufacturer from next year already.
This rule could also be interesting for Citroën if they continue with 2 cars.
They also link Lappi and Veiby to Citroën
It's not certain M-Sport will register as manufacturer next year.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Sardegna is going to be run ONE week ahead of this year. Words from the organiser himself.

[Eli]

If Portugal is run in early June, the place of Sardegna, would this imply that Chile is added between Mexico and Argentina, pushing Corsica into mid-May?

Imho, you're right, Chile will be added between Mexico & Argentina but Corsica might be out, we'll know more next week.

[RS]

Belgian Speed magazine came with an interesting article today. Although it's based on rumours and a lot of ifs, this is what they say:
R5 might be allowed to take points for the manufacturers next year.
Skoda might consider to register als a manufacturer from next year already.
This rule could also be interesting for Citroën if they continue with 2 cars.
They also link Lappi and Veiby to Citroën
It's not certain M-Sport will register as manufacturer next year.

What would be the advantage for Skoda registering for the manufacturers championship?.. since with only an R5 car they would almost certainly finish last.

I can see how it could work for MSport or Citroen running an R5 as the third car.

[deephouse]

Not in Turkey haha

[EstWRC]

Rallye Sport
‏

@RallyeSport
30m30 minutes ago
More

The @TourdeCorseWRC is maintained in #WRC en 2019 (28-31 march) Publication of the calendar tomorrow with 15 rounds to the program!

https://twitter.com/RallyeSport/status/1050437674018975747


germany out then? what a BS

[tc10a]

Rallye Sport
‏

@RallyeSport
30m30 minutes ago
More

The @TourdeCorseWRC is maintained in #WRC en 2019 (28-31 march) Publication of the calendar tomorrow with 15 rounds to the program!

https://twitter.com/RallyeSport/status/1050437674018975747

germany out then? what a BS

If it is a 15 round calendar as quoted then probably all rounds 2018 + chile + japan

[jbmarcus21]

yes it seems 15 Rallyes in 2019 nobody dropped out ► http://bit.ly/2CaeB6D

[Eli]

yes it seems 15 Rallyes in 2019 nobody dropped out ► http://bit.ly/2CaeB6D

First time in a long time the Calendar is getting longer...wow, 15 rounds, will be crazy.

[Tauri_J]

No Japan for next year, I'm hearing

[EstWRC]

Yep http://dlvr.it/Qn3341

Autosport understands that the WRC manufacturers were told that next year's rise to a 14th event would not cost them anything in terms of logistics, with Chile and Japan both footing the bill for taking the series to their countries.

The teams will now be forced to find extra budget for the return to Corsica.


Lol

[BobJones]

That journalist is a Brit who goes by the name of David Evans. Of course Ogier won't go to Citroen, Meeke won't be at Toyota and Japan will be in the WRC...

[Simmi]

Why is the FIA pushing so hard for Corsica to remain? I assume certain people have certain personal interests in making sure it's still on the calendar.

Surely with Toyota so heavily invested and rumours of Mitsubishi in talks - this is surely the sport shooting itself in the foot by dropping Japan...

[Andre Oliveira]

14

first ones will be

MC, S, MEX, TdC, ARG, CHL, POR, ITA,...

[Sanremo]

[QUOTE=Simmi;1194885]Why is the FIA pushing so hard for Corsica to remain? I assume certain people have certain personal interests in making sure it's still on the calendar.

Thank God!!!!! Every time they have to make up some space for new rounds the tarmac ones always get the short end of the stick:angryfire There are so few of them...

[er88]

Was really looking forward to have Chile and Japan on-board. Japan on tarmac would be great, a round in asia that pleases Toyota.

Personally feel Sardinia had to go but it seems like it was only between Corsica and Germany, and between those two it had to be Corsica imo. Shame if that remains over Japan.

If Japan are covering the costs though, why can't they just run 15 rounds including Corsica and Japan, instead of 14 rounds with Corsica and no Japan? Sounds like it's Corsica that is the problem budget-wise, not Japan who foot the bill.

[the sniper]

Thank God!!!!! Every time they have to make up some space for new rounds the tarmac ones always get the short end of the stick:angryfire There are so few of them...

Japan was going to be a tarmac round...

Corsica over Japan seems like a terrible idea, particularly if Japan were indeed going to cover the travel costs.

[AndyRAC]

Something is not adding up – why would you not include Japan? A motorsport World Championship should include Japan; F1, MotoGP & WEC all go there, so why not WRC? They’re even paying costs……

I don’t have a problem with Corsica, it’s one of the too few Tarmac events – but I’d drop Sardengna without too much thought; it’s has nice scenery, but is just another dry, dusty European event.

I don’t know what Chile was bringing (apart from £$£$£) when we already have Argentina & Mexico for the American continent.

There’s some muddled thinking as usual in the WRC. We always hear about costs, costs, and more costs – understandably so; but very little about value. Sometimes costs can bring in long term value and growth/ interest in the sport.

[Rally Power]

Why is the FIA pushing so hard for Corsica to remain? I assume certain people have certain personal interests in making sure it's still on the calendar.

Surely with Toyota so heavily invested and rumours of Mitsubishi in talks - this is surely the sport shooting itself in the foot by dropping Japan...

Yep, having 2 events in France is indefensible but looking at the way the promoter is rushing the Japanese entry it’s not an entire surprise having them waiting one year more: https://rallysportmag.com/is-this-the-future-of-the-wrc-japan-itinerary-unveiled/

[hype]

Don't drop Sardegna, it's the cheapest one to travel to for me and it's always great :-)

[AL14]

Don't drop Sardegna, it's the cheapest one to travel to for me and it's always great :-)

Sardinia will be there in June :)

[Simmi]

Regarding Sardinia - am I right in thinking that the promoter are essentially waiting to return the event to the mainland, but are keeping Sardinia in play as a stopgap until the right rally can be put together by the ACI?

I had a great time there this year but I'm not sure the teams love it.

[GigiGalliNo1]

I was told that if France got a F1 round then Corsica will get dropped by the FIA as the French Sports Federation people or who ever is in charge of sports in France wanted F1 but content with WRC if they couldn't get it.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpUBVxqW4AEfVoA?format=jpg&name=900x900

[AL14]

Regarding Sardinia - am I right in thinking that the promoter are essentially waiting to return the event to the mainland, but are keeping Sardinia in play as a stopgap until the right rally can be put together by the ACI?

I had a great time there this year but I'm not sure the teams love it.

The fact is that if you want a world level rally in Italy nowadays you can only do it there.
It seems that a lor of people don't want the wrc rally in Sardinia. Teams don't like it, people from the mainland don't like it, ACI don't like it because they say that Sardinia region don't pay enough. The fact is that Sardinia region is the only one willing to invest in such an event, even if it is limited compared to the total cost. All the others don't, or their ACI located association have no more money.

[Eli]

How come Australia is still on the Calendar, didn't NZ say they'd try to push to be their in 2019? and didn't the teams say they would boycott another event in Sargdegna?

[Simmi]

Hoping that calendar is true but does anyone know where it originated from? Anyone could have printed that out and presented as fact...

[er88]

Real shame that Japan isn't in

[Eli]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2018/10/12/japan-muss-warten-deutschland-bleibt/

[racerx1979]

I forgot which thread it was posted on but a few here we're wondering about the two MSport WRC cars which were sold this year. Number 2 was in fact sold to Block as I mentioned. He is using it for his next Gymkhana video.

[AnttiL]

I forgot which thread it was posted on but a few here we're wondering about the two MSport WRC cars which were sold this year. Number 2 was in fact sold to Block as I mentioned. He is using it for his next Gymkhana video.

And Catalynua?

[AnttiL]

Only two week gaps between Chile and Argentina, as well as Portugal and Sardegna

[hype]

Only two week gaps between Chile and Argentina, as well as Portugal and Sardegna

Chile and Argentina within 2 weeks, a crazy plan is forming in my head

[Andre Oliveira]

I forgot which thread it was posted on but a few here we're wondering about the two MSport WRC cars which were sold this year. Number 2 was in fact sold to Block as I mentioned. He is using it for his next Gymkhana video.

https://scontent.fopo3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43787577_2345738652122215_262059383775559680_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=103&oh=a50708b18eec7ae0a25f563b3a1febbe&oe=5C4C02AC

[racerx1979]

https://scontent.fopo3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43787577_2345738652122215_262059383775559680_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=103&oh=a50708b18eec7ae0a25f563b3a1febbe&oe=5C4C02AC

Running the old aero. Just wanted to say it before everyone else does haha.

[reff92]

I forgot which thread it was posted on but a few here we're wondering about the two MSport WRC cars which were sold this year. Number 2 was in fact sold to Block as I mentioned. He is using it for his next Gymkhana video.
Second one was sold to OT racing(Ott Tänak rally business basically). Car is used right now by Georg Gross in Saaremaa Rally(on this wknd).This was Ostberg old car.:talk:

[T16]

Running the old aero. Just wanted to say it before everyone else does haha.

Wasn’t this filmed before the new aero was launched anyway?

[Andre Oliveira]

FIA World Rally Championship

The 2019 FIA World Rally Championship calendar is confirmed as follows:

27 January


Rally Monte Carlo

17 February


Rally Sweden

10 March


Rally Mexico

31 March


Rally France

28 April


Rally Argentina

12 May


Rally Chile

2 June


Rally Portugal

16 June


Rally Italy

4 August


Rally Finland

25 August *


Rally Germany

15 September


Rally Turkey

6 October *


Rally Great Britain

27 October *


Rally Spain

17 November *


Rally Australia

In order to give consistent identity to drivers and assist with promotion, Priority 1 drivers will be free to choose their permanent car number from 2019, except number 1, which will always be reserved for the reigning World Rally Champion.* Date subject to confirmation

As part of an overall cost reduction plan aimed at removing or reducing the cost of elements that do not add to the spectacle of the Championship, the number of test days will be reduced from 55 to 42 for WRC Manufacturer teams. The total distance of special stages has been reduced from a maximum of 500 to a maximum of 350 kilometres.

From 2019, the support championships will be restructured to help increase the number of entrants in Manufacturer Championships, to boost the number of factory supported drivers and cars, and further encourage private competitors to the WRC 2 and Junior WRC Championships. Building on the success of the R5 car, a new WRC 2 Pro Championship for Drivers, Co-Drivers and Manufacturers will be created as a platform for registered R5 manufacturers.

The same specification R5 car will continue to be used in the FIA WRC 2 Championship. This championship will be solely for private entrants, with the intention being to attract more drivers from national and regional championships.

In order to continue supporting the progression of young talent in the sport, the format of the Junior WRC Championship will remain unchanged. The WRC 3 Championship will cease from 2019 although competitors in two-wheel drive cars are still eligible to enter events.

The Championships will therefore be as follows:

FIA World Rally Championship for Drivers, Co-drivers and Manufacturers
FIA WRC 2 Pro Championship for Drivers, Co-drivers and Manufacturers
FIA WRC 2 Championship for Drivers and Co-drivers
FIA Junior WRC Championship for Drivers, Co-drivers and Nations

[T16]

According to Iain Campbell on Twitter, rally GB date still not fixed as they don’t have calendar yet.
Mid November will do please.

[rallye-vid]

Germany in September? wtf

[EstWRC]

nope, the dates are above the rally name, not under

[rallye-vid]

Aye, right. Got scared a bit.

[racerx1979]

Wasn’t this filmed before the new aero was launched anyway?

Not sure, but they were filming before Rally Turkey.

[Allez Andruet]

Isn't the WRC 2 Pro just about the dumbest thing the FIA has produced in a while?

[Simmi]

Isn't the WRC 2 Pro just about the dumbest thing the FIA has produced in a while?

Hmm don't think so really. Formalises what already exists, and maybe encourages in more privateers who previously didn't stand a chance against works Skodas.

It might also mean we get an extra 'works' Hyundai and VWs.

[RS]

Hmm don't think so really. Formalises what already exists, and maybe encourages in more privateers who previously didn't stand a chance against works Skodas.

It might also mean we get an extra 'works' Hyundai and VWs.

But doesn't it just devalue the WRC2 championship?

In fact WRC2 would have been pretty weak this year without works Skodas..

[Essaj]

But doesn't it just devalue the WRC2 championship?

In fact WRC2 would have been pretty weak this year without works Skodas..

Exactly, why would Skoda run a factory team if they're the only ones fighting for the championship unless others are actually interested to join.

[Allez Andruet]

But doesn't it just devalue the WRC2 championship?

That's exactly my point. If all the Tidemands and Rovanperäs of the world are competing in WRC2 Pro, what kind of following it leaves for the "regular" WRC2? I think it's a perfect example of a case of "if it ain't broken, don't fix it".

[Gregor-y]

I forgot which thread it was posted on but a few here we're wondering about the two MSport WRC cars which were sold this year. Number 2 was in fact sold to Block as I mentioned. He is using it for his next Gymkhana video.

I wonder if it's going to turn up at any US events next year. After the fuss about Block's Escort Cosworth it was a shame to see it burn to the ground.

[Andre Oliveira]

Isn't the WRC 2 Pro just about the dumbest thing the FIA has produced in a while?

No. WRC Trophy it was :)

[Mirek]

Exactly, why would Skoda run a factory team if they're the only ones fighting for the championship unless others are actually interested to join.

This year all major R5 manufacturers except Peugeot have been involved in WRC2. The fact that Škoda is dominating doesn't mean others are not involved. We've had works cars of M-Sport (Camilli), Citroën (Lefebvre) and Hyundai (Huttunen) in WRC2. You can easily check their entrant name in the entry lists and see that it's manufacturers not privateers. Recently M-Sport had even three works cars in Wales under its own banner (Camilli, Edwards and Laffey).

I think that FIA wants VW to get involved again on a manufacturer level. We'll see how that plays out but anyway it's not a fault of Škoda that it's been dominating. It's up to the others to up their game.

[jbmarcus21]

Rally Japan project comes back is not over for the future 2020 season ► http://bit.ly/2P22UpL

[Mintexmemory]

Forget the WRC2 the worst aspect is the 350km maximum of stage mileage. As a cost saving!!!

[steve.mandzij]

Forget the WRC2 the worst aspect is the 350km maximum of stage mileage. As a cost saving!!!And they add another round...

What kinda irks me is that we now have more than enough rallies to fill July but a whole month gap again, left by Poland, between Germany and Finland. That break is too long.

[AnttiL]

And they add another round...

What kinda irks me is that we now have more than enough rallies to fill July but a whole month gap again, left by Poland, between Germany and Finland. That break is too long.

Drivers need a summer break as well


Forget the WRC2 the worst aspect is the 350km maximum of stage mileage. As a cost saving!!!

with the current regulations it's hard to make a longer event. In this year's calendar, Monte is 388 km, Argentina and Portugal fractionally over 350 km. Not a problem to most rallies and Monte probably keeps on having its own rules

[AnttiL]

That's exactly my point. If all the Tidemands and Rovanperäs of the world are competing in WRC2 Pro, what kind of following it leaves for the "regular" WRC2? I think it's a perfect example of a case of "if it ain't broken, don't fix it".

Citroens, Hyundais and M-Sport? And anyone else who's joining in? I think WRC2 has been broken and this will fix it a bit. We will have a proper privateer title.

This year's WRC2 Pro would look ATM like this

1. Kopecky (125)
2. Tidemand (111)
3. Greensmith (70)
4. Rovanperä (65)
5. Huttunen (46)
6. Veiby (45)
7. Lefebvre (33)

and the normal WRC2

1. Pieniazek (56)
2. Andolfi (50)
3. Heller (41)
4. Loubet (30)
5. Katsuta (29)

etc.

[AL14]

Although I understand the point on introducing so called WRC2 Pro, I think it just make things more complicated and a sport already difficult to understand from the casual person don't need more complexity.

[noel157]

Although I understand the point on introducing so called WRC2 Pro, I think it just make things more complicated and a sport already difficult to understand from the casual person don't need more complexity.

I'm not sure wanting the general public to understand the sport has ever been a real consideration.

[Simmi]

Although I understand the point on introducing so called WRC2 Pro, I think it just make things more complicated and a sport already difficult to understand from the casual person don't need more complexity.

I don't think the average casual fan cares about WRC2.

The biggest issue the WRC have is they will now have to separate out the classes on the TV coverage. A solid 15 seconds for each will be fine I'm sure...

In all seriousness, maybe with this formalised pro WRC2 those manufacturers could band together to ensure some better coverage. I'd love to watch a 30min dedicated WRC2 edit on YouTube or even WRC+.

[Rally Power]

I think WRC2 has been broken and this will fix it a bit. We will have a proper privateer title.

A distincton between manus and privateers in WRC2 make sense but it could be done in a simple way, through a privateer cup inside WRC2 (a bit like ERC28 on the ERC).

What bothers me the most is the possibility (it’s still unclear) of this new WRC2 Pro to use R5+ cars; that would be a real threat to R5 balance around the world, as some regional or national series could also be tempted to use them alongside normal spec R5’s. Instead of having a handful of crews fighting for the win in the national events, we could have those being disputed only by a couple of favourites, as when WRC’s were allowed.

[AnttiL]

What bothers me the most is the possibility (it’s still unclear) of this new WRC2 Pro to use R5+ cars

I hope this nonsense won’t happen. At least it’s not mentioned in the latest rules...

[RS]

In all seriousness, maybe with this formalised pro WRC2 those manufacturers could band together to ensure some better coverage. I'd love to watch a 30min dedicated WRC2 edit on YouTube or even WRC+.

Didn’t they already promise that about 2 years ago?

[Simmi]

Didn’t they already promise that about 2 years ago?

Yeah I seem to remember reading a press release about WRC2 coverage and then nothing happened.

All the footage exists they just need to pay someone to edit and voice it over.

[RS]

This year all major R5 manufacturers except Peugeot have been involved in WRC2. The fact that Škoda is dominating doesn't mean others are not involved. We've had works cars of M-Sport (Camilli), Citroën (Lefebvre) and Hyundai (Huttunen) in WRC2. You can easily check their entrant name in the entry lists and see that it's manufacturers not privateers. Recently M-Sport had even three works cars in Wales under its own banner (Camilli, Edwards and Laffey).

Hmm, but then how do you define a manufacturer entry? The Citroen R5s are run by PH Sport and the Hyundai by BRC (I think), even Katsura and Arai are not run by a works team but are they true privateers?

The FIA release talks about attracting privateers and national champions, but isn’t this what ERC is for?

I think they should think more about the whole ladder and prize system.

[Rally Power]

I hope this nonsense won’t happen. At least it’s not mentioned in the latest rules...

I hope not too, but then why have they only mentioned current spec cars use in the WRC2 privateer series? Besides, the Fabia tested in Portugal a couple of weeks ago didn’t look/sound as a current spec R5.

From the FIA PR:
“Building on the success of the R5 car, a new WRC 2 Pro Championship for Drivers, Co-Drivers and Manufacturers will be created as a platform for registered R5 manufacturers.
The same specification R5 car will continue to be used in the FIA WRC 2 Championship. This championship will be solely for private entrants, with the intention being to attract more drivers from national and regional championships.”

[Allez Andruet]

Hmm, but then how do you define a manufacturer entry? The Citroen R5s are run by PH Sport and the Hyundai by BRC (I think), even Katsura and Arai are not run by a works team but are they true privateers?
That's a good point. If let's say Lefebvre would be entered by PH-Sport and Huttunen by Sarrazin Motorsport, in which class would they compete in?

[tommeke_B]

I bet there will be some things making it more interesting to enter as manufacturer in WRC2. Such as place in service, more tyres, priority on recce, shakedown and starting position, tv coverage, ...

[Allez Andruet]

Citroens, Hyundais and M-Sport? And anyone else who's joining in? I think WRC2 has been broken and this will fix it a bit. We will have a proper privateer title.

This year's WRC2 Pro would look ATM like this

1. Kopecky (125)
2. Tidemand (111)
3. Greensmith (70)
4. Rovanperä (65)
5. Huttunen (46)
6. Veiby (45)
7. Lefebvre (33)

and the normal WRC2

1. Pieniazek (56)
2. Andolfi (50)
3. Heller (41)
4. Loubet (30)
5. Katsuta (29)

etc.

That's a valid argument regarding the privateer title (assuming a fair split between works and private entries can be obtained). Not saying I would disagree about the view as such, but my concern is, what integrity the privateer title will have, if it's served for drivers not fighting for top positions in their own class (another assumption that the rumored R5+ won't happen - I'm not supporting that either though)? I.e. (I) the title could easily become somewhat artificial in the eyes of many. I.e. (II) the title wouldn't have the legitimacy that an official FIA/WRC title should have. I.e. (III) would someone truly be interested in a title fight between Pieniazek and Andolfi this year?

Anyway, whatever the title(s) are the R5 drivers will be fighting for in 2019, let's just hope the class will remain as relevant as it has been to this day. And with the new Polo and the obvious resurrection of Citroen together with the challenged reign of terror of Skoda, there's no reason to expect anything else.

[RS]

I hope not too, but then why have they only mentioned current spec cars use in the WRC2 privateer series? Besides, the Fabia tested in Portugal a couple of weeks ago didn’t look/sound as a current spec R5.

I agree, but if there was some new rules for R5 wouldn’t they have told us by now?

Back to the main subject, is Skoda domination really putting anyone off WRC2 at the moment, or is barrier mainly cost? Perhaps the privateer championship should only be contested on let’s say six European WRC events? With WRC2 Pro following same scoring rules as the main WRC competition maybe.

[deephouse]

I agree, but if there was some new rules for R5 wouldn’t they have told us by now?

Like they told everything else, the rules, driver lineups, new manufacturer entry. I'm just surprised that calendar get out so early.

All live feature was introduced just before the start of the 2018 season right. So they could be quiet about new rules too and only manufacturers know about them (if the rumours are correct).

[AnttiL]

Hmm, but then how do you define a manufacturer entry? The Citroen R5s are run by PH Sport and the Hyundai by BRC (I think), even Katsura and Arai are not run by a works team but are they true privateers?


I would guess teams must enter WRC2 Pro before the start of the season and then enter their drivers. The rest are privateers.

[tc10a]

I think you read too much into it.

The same specification R5 car ("as mentioned in the paragraph above concerning new WRC-2 pro") will continue to be used in the FIA WRC 2 Championship.

Thats my interpretation. Same cars for sure.

[Mirek]

Forget the WRC2 the worst aspect is the 350km maximum of stage mileage. As a cost saving!!!

There is nothing new about it. Except Monte Carlo all other events +/- fit inside 350 km already.


I hope not too, but then why have they only mentioned current spec cars use in the WRC2 privateer series? Besides, the Fabia tested in Portugal a couple of weeks ago didn’t look/sound as a current spec R5.

From the FIA PR:
“Building on the success of the R5 car, a new WRC 2 Pro Championship for Drivers, Co-Drivers and Manufacturers will be created as a platform for registered R5 manufacturers.
The same specification R5 car will continue to be used in the FIA WRC 2 Championship. This championship will be solely for private entrants, with the intention being to attract more drivers from national and regional championships.”

There is nothing implicating different rules for WRC2 Pro. You understand it wrong as pointed out by tc10a.


Hmm, but then how do you define a manufacturer entry? The Citroen R5s are run by PH Sport and the Hyundai by BRC (I think), even Katsura and Arai are not run by a works team but are they true privateers?

All cases I named are completely clear because those were entered under the manufacturer's name. There is probably no other way how to distiguish them but is that even important? The WRC2 Pro will be for sure much more prestigious and it doesn't make much sense for a manufacturer to use a hidden entry to win the privateer title.


The FIA release talks about attracting privateers and national champions, but isn’t this what ERC is for?

WRC is not ERC. If I want to take part in WRC it means I want to be in WRC. Simple as that.


A distincton between manus and privateers in WRC2 make sense but it could be done in a simple way, through a privateer cup inside WRC2 (a bit like ERC28 on the ERC).

Such cup would probably didn't attract many competitors. You need to give them something worth fighting for and the WC title is that. Some obscure cup trophy is not.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.wrc.com/images//News/2018/October2018/14874_2019map-2018_001_896x504.jpg?

[ToKu]

Still no round in Eastern Europe. Crowds of spectators clearly doesn't make a difference for a sport that is rapidly loosing popularity.

Great job FIA! Couple more years and there will be no WRC.

[tommeke_B]

great job fia! Couple more years and there will be no wrc.

lol

[T16]

Still no round in Eastern Europe. Crowds of spectators clearly doesn't make a difference for a sport that is rapidly loosing popularity.

Great job FIA! Couple more years and there will be no WRC.

Genuine question, is the WRC gaining in popularity or declining. I thought it had grown over the last five years or so?.

[Mirek]

Still no round in Eastern Europe. Crowds of spectators clearly doesn't make a difference for a sport that is rapidly loosing popularity.

Great job FIA! Couple more years and there will be no WRC.

That's not even funny. How could You come to such conclusions is beyond me.

[er88]

Still no round in Eastern Europe. Crowds of spectators clearly doesn't make a difference for a sport that is rapidly loosing popularity.

Great job FIA! Couple more years and there will be no WRC.Lol. The sport is growing.

[AL14]

Still no round in Eastern Europe. Crowds of spectators clearly doesn't make a difference for a sport that is rapidly loosing popularity.

Great job FIA! Couple more years and there will be no WRC.

You started well but ended misearbly.

[Rally Power]

There is nothing implicating different rules for WRC2 Pro. You understand it wrong as pointed out by tc10a.

Time will tell.


Such cup would probably didn't attract many competitors. You need to give them something worth fighting for and the WC title is that. Some obscure cup trophy is not.

I’ve mentioned a cup but it could be called championship or whatever; what I’m trying to say is that there’s no need for a total split in current WRC2 and privateers should still run inside the main series, while having a special competition for them (exactly like E28 inside ERC, which is far from being obscure).

[Sulland]

Still no round in East Europe.

I would agree in this statement. Tsjekkia or Poland would be good.
Japan with maybe two manufacurers would also be good.
I would like to see a rally in North America as well.


Maybe FIA need to revisit the rotation plan
https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?12024-WRC-calendar-rotation-amp-Max-Moseley
But it is hard to be able to keep a organiser staff in place if they are not in business every year.

How much money is left for organizers on the bottom line, anything?

[rallyfiend]

‘Still’ no round. What a silly comment.

There was a round just last year.

Remember how well that was managed?

[Mirek]

There was a round just last year.

Remember how well that was managed?

For the sake of geography no, there wasn't.


I would agree in this statement. Tsjekkia or Poland would be good.

Neither ie Eastern Europe.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3c/Europe_subregion_map_world_factbook.svg/680px-Europe_subregion_map_world_factbook.svg.png

[AL14]

For the sake of geography no, there wasn't.



Neither ie Eastern Europe.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3c/Europe_subregion_map_world_factbook.svg/680px-Europe_subregion_map_world_factbook.svg.png

This is very much off topic and I apologize to everyone but this picture is so interesting... Putting apart the geographical side your reply and your image show how much different we see ourselves (in Europe at least).
For example, from my perspective (Italy), eastern Europe is everything east of Vien and Berlin and south of Scandinavia. Hell even baltic republics are east Europe for us. The only exception is Greece, Greece is not east but Albania and Macedonia (or should we say north macedonia soon?) are!
I think this is due mainly from the iron courtain which has divided the continent for half a century. Your image is something like a Subregion map of Europe right? Well I can say that it does not show how Europe is perceived by a lot of its inhabitants.
From that point of view instead, your country together with Poland and others is part of "middeleurope" the "Mitteleuropa" which actually has strongest root in the history.
What I also notice is the green for Italy and Greece but I was sure that from other Europe countries we were also in the same club as Spain, Portugal, maybe even France as southern Europe states.
I'm sure that other guys see that even different. That's nice and bad at the same time.

[Mirek]

Well, history didn't take just 50 years of iron curtain existence. Central Europe is historically connected mostly with the existence of Holy Roman Empire, Austro-Hungarian Empire or Polish-Lithuanian principality and with the fact that these areas were mostly catholic or protestant but not orthodox like most of the Eastern Europe.

PS Just out of curiosity I live 150 km to the west of Vienna, 500 km to the west of Helsinki and 250 km to the west of Taranto.

[Allez Andruet]

"Eastern Europe" is such a complex definition that I wouldn't blame anyone for counting Poland or Czech Republic in. It's probably used just as often to merge certain countries into each other than it is for geographical definition.

[SubaruNorway]

Still no round in Eastern Europe. Crowds of spectators clearly doesn't make a difference for a sport that is rapidly loosing popularity.

Great job FIA! Couple more years and there will be no WRC.

I thought there had been a decent amount of people in Turkey but after watching the onboards there can't have been more than 2-500 people pr stage apart from city and start of powerstage. That's too little for a country that already had a WRC fanbase from previous years.

[Mirek]

"Eastern Europe" is such a complex definition that I wouldn't blame anyone for counting Poland or Czech Republic in. It's probably used just as often to merge certain countries into each other than it is for geographical definition.

Yes but merged on which base? Central European countries have different alphabet, different religions and different culture than Russia, Ukraine, Belarus etc. and the history is not much connected (well, the Polish is - with never ending wars with with their eastern neighbours). We were part of the Warshaw pact for fifty years but that's nearly all out of the last thousand years or so. Now we are all in EU so by the same logic we shall be called Western Europe which is obviously also a nonsense.

[dimviii]

Yes but merged on which base? Central European countries have different alphabet, different religions and different culture than Russia, Ukraine, Belarus etc. and the history is not much connected (well, the Polish is - with never ending wars with with their eastern neighbours). We were part of the Warshaw pact for fifty years but that's nearly all out of the last thousand years or so. Now we are all in EU so by the same logic we shall be called Western Europe which is obviously also a nonsense.

Mirek,dont listen what said Allez and AL as something strange.Same thinking for what is East/West Europe is for Greeks too.
As AL said its because the iron curtain countries,all these countries where ''east'' for us.Not correct gegraphically,but its like that at peoples thinking,not all people,but at least for these had lived at these times.

[stefanvv]

Mirek,dont listen what said Allez and AL as something strange.Same thinking for what is East/West Europe is for Greeks too.
As AL said its because the iron curtain countries,all these countries where ''east'' for us.Not correct gegraphically,but its like that at peoples thinking,not all people,but at least for these had lived at these times.

That's correct. We used to call Eastern European countries based on the political arrangement, not geographic. Everything else was Western/Scandinavian.

[focus206]

For example, from my perspective (Italy), eastern Europe is everything east of Vien and Berlin and south of Scandinavia. Hell even baltic republics are east Europe for us. The only exception is Greece, Greece is not east but Albania and Macedonia (or should we say north macedonia soon?) are!
I think this is due mainly from the iron courtain which has divided the continent for half a century. Your image is something like a Subregion map of Europe right? Well I can say that it does not show how Europe is perceived by a lot of its inhabitants.
From that point of view instead, your country together with Poland and others is part of "middeleurope" the "Mitteleuropa" which actually has strongest root in the history.
What I also notice is the green for Italy and Greece but I was sure that from other Europe countries we were also in the same club as Spain, Portugal, maybe even France as southern Europe states.


Well I'm Italian as well but I don't share that view, I guess because I've always looked at the continent with a geographical eye. Hell, some people think Europe ends at the Russian border instead of the Ural Mountains.
But yes, many people here see Italy as South or even West Europe, then if you mention Slovenia they say it's East Europe. Then you make them notice that with that view there would be no Central Europe and that East Europe would be two/three times as big as Western Europe.
I guess the "political (outdated) map" is still influencial, but we have to consider that countries are shaped in many different ways so you cannot always place one in a definite region. For example, I've always thought of Poland as Central-East Europe, because it's quite a "large" country.
And I consider a good part of Italy as part as the Mittle Europa, also because of its history... if you look at the Mitropa Rally Cup, they have always multiple rounds in Italy, mainly in North-East but also more South in Casentino.
Well, I also apologise for the OT :D

[Got Mail]

Mirek,dont listen what said Allez and AL as something strange.Same thinking for what is East/West Europe is for Greeks too.
As AL said its because the iron curtain countries,all these countries where ''east'' for us.Not correct gegraphically,but its like that at peoples thinking,not all people,but at least for these had lived at these times.

That's the same as the definition in the UK. Czech Republic is described as Eastern Europe along with Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia and Bulgaria. Austria is 100% Western European though....:eek:

They clearly reference former politics rather than geography.

(UK is a pretty fucked up country though)

[bomber21]

I thought there had been a decent amount of people in Turkey but after watching the onboards there can't have been more than 2-500 people pr stage apart from city and start of powerstage. That's too little for a country that already had a WRC fanbase from previous years.


I was in Turkey on September. On the Marmaris city stage there were MYRIADS of people. Endless crowd. But in the mountains I saw mostly European fans. In Cicekli we were almost alone. Some policemen in the entrance of the stage were impressed to see us and asked “Who sent you here”?? In Ula I saw mostly Europeans drinking beers and in Datca some Finnish and Estonian people. Service park was so empty the first days you could have discussion with the drivers.

I want Rally Turkey to be in the calendar but Turkish fans need to go to the mountains.

[Mirek]

Mirek,dont listen what said Allez and AL as something strange.Same thinking for what is East/West Europe is for Greeks too.
As AL said its because the iron curtain countries,all these countries where ''east'' for us.Not correct gegraphically,but its like that at peoples thinking,not all people,but at least for these had lived at these times.

I know but it's ridiculous and stupid in the same time because it's based on 44 years long order which has been 29 years gone.

[AL14]

Well, history didn't take just 50 years of iron curtain existence. Central Europe is historically connected mostly with the existence of Holy Roman Empire, Austro-Hungarian Empire or Polish-Lithuanian principality and with the fact that these areas were mostly catholic or protestant but not orthodox like most of the Eastern Europe.

PS Just out of curiosity I live 150 km to the west of Vienna, 500 km to the west of Helsinki and 250 km to the west of Taranto.

Exactly, that's why I said that that idea of "middle Europe" has deeper roots in history. :)

[AL14]

I know but it's ridiculous and stupid in the same time because it's based on 44 years long order which has been 29 years gone.

I didn't want to say what is right or wrong or argue on it. I just noticed that we have different ways to see ourselves in Europe. And that map showed it. :)

[wrc2017]

Well I'm Italian as well but I don't share that view, I guess because I've always looked at the continent with a geographical eye. Hell, some people think Europe ends at the Russian border instead of the Ural Mountains.
But yes, many people here see Italy as South or even West Europe, then if you mention Slovenia they say it's East Europe. Then you make them notice that with that view there would be no Central Europe and that East Europe would be two/three times as big as Western Europe.
I guess the "political (outdated) map" is still influencial, but we have to consider that countries are shaped in many different ways so you cannot always place one in a definite region. For example, I've always thought of Poland as Central-East Europe, because it's quite a "large" country.
And I consider a good part of Italy as part as the Mittle Europa, also because of its history... if you look at the Mitropa Rally Cup, they have always multiple rounds in Italy, mainly in North-East but also more South in Casentino.
Well, I also apologise for the OT :D
EU.. sure it will be all one country soon anyway.

[Allez Andruet]

I know but it's ridiculous and stupid in the same time because it's based on 44 years long order which has been 29 years gone.

Easy now... It wasn't meant in a dismissive manner. That timeline of minimum 44 years represents a huge part of the recollection many of our friends and families have of "our time" and especially in countries that have directly or indirectly been affected by the Iron Curtain 29 years won't necessarily wash it away (in spoken language atleast). But ok, back to the topic...

[RS]

All cases I named are completely clear because those were entered under the manufacturer's name. There is probably no other way how to distiguish them but is that even important? The WRC2 Pro will be for sure much more prestigious and it doesn't make much sense for a manufacturer to use a hidden entry to win the privateer title.

Let's see what the sporting regulations/calendar will be like for both series. WRC2 Pro could be potentially interesting if it's like WRC but for R5 cars (ie full calendar, all events count, maybe powerstage for R5 cars), and if more than one team enters.

I still feel it will devalue the WRC2 title and reduce fan interest in that series, but time will tell.

[Norm75]

Don't know if been posted

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139388/ogier-meeke-return-good-for-wrc

[pantealex]

https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/october-2018/wmsc-decisions/page/5813--12-12-.html

WRC2 Pro and WRC2 Privat will have same spec R5 cars. End of speculation.

[Mirek]

I still feel it will devalue the WRC2 title and reduce fan interest in that series, but time will tell.

How can it reduce fan interest?

[Rally Power]

https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/october-2018/wmsc-decisions/page/5813--12-12-.html
WRC2 Pro and WRC2 Privat will have same spec R5 cars.

Great, that's a relief.

[Andre Oliveira]

JWRC 2019

Rally Sweden
Tour de Corse - Rallye de France
Rally Italia Sardegna
Rally Finland
Wales Rally GB

Prize: Ford Fiesta MK8 R5

http://www.m-sport.co.uk/single-post/2018/11/09/2019-FIA-JUNIOR-WRC-CHAMPIONSHIP-CALENDAR-REVEALED

[dodge33cymru]

Glad all R5s will be the same spec, but I really hope that private entries can take points in the WRC2 Pro driver championship. If a privateer is the second R5 to finish, they should get 2nd place in 'Pro' as well as the win in 'Am' IMO.

Not wanting to use the word 'amateur' is understandable but a little tricky in this context!

Good, clear progression path for drivers though IMO:

WRCJ wins a drive in WRC2
WRC2 entrants can impress works WRC2 Pro teams
WRC2 Pro entrants can impress works WRC teams

[dimviii]

ThisIsIrishRallying
‏

More
Current @HMSGOfficial co-driver @sebmarshall will move to @TGR_WRC next year to sit with @krismeeke

https://twitter.com/thisisirishral1/status/1061207596261130240

[deephouse]

WRC2 entrants can impress works WRC2 Pro teams

Hope that there will be more than just Skoda in the field. Hyundai and Citroen culd really invest in there too.

[PLuto]

Glad all R5s will be the same spec, but I really hope that private entries can take points in the WRC2 Pro driver championship. If a privateer is the second R5 to finish, they should get 2nd place in 'Pro' as well as the win in 'Am' IMO.

Not wanting to use the word 'amateur' is understandable but a little tricky in this context!

Good, clear progression path for drivers though IMO:

WRCJ wins a drive in WRC2
WRC2 entrants can impress works WRC2 Pro teams
WRC2 Pro entrants can impress works WRC teams

I think it is not working like this. Teams are searching everywhere through all international or national series. This step between WRC2 Pro and WRC2 is for nothing...

[steve.mandzij]

That's great! I love hearing Seb call the notes...
But what does this mean for Paddon?
ThisIsIrishRallying
‏

More
Current @HMSGOfficial co-driver @sebmarshall will move to @TGR_WRC next year to sit with @krismeeke

https://twitter.com/thisisirishral1/status/1061207596261130240

[spiderem]

That's great! I love hearing Seb call the notes...
But what does this mean for Paddon?

the end.

[sollitt]

That's great! I love hearing Seb call the notes...
But what does this mean for Paddon?Find another co-driver. There are a few viable options.

[steve.mandzij]

Find another co-driver. There are a few viable options.That's not what I meant. I get the impression that Seb and Hayden parting ways means Seb won't have a drive next year unless he jumps ship over to Kris. Maybe we'll see Hayden's last rally this week :(

[SubaruNorway]

That's not what I meant. I get the impression that Seb and Hayden parting ways means Seb won't have a drive next year unless he jumps ship over to Kris. Maybe we'll see Hayden's last rally this week :(

Malcolm read, current co driver for Molly Taylor and Mike Young apparently an option for Hayden

[GravelBen]

That's not what I meant. I get the impression that Seb and Hayden parting ways means Seb won't have a drive next year unless he jumps ship over to Kris.

Get the impression from what?

[GravelBen]

Malcolm read, current co driver for Molly Taylor and Mike Young apparently an option for Hayden

Malcolm has co-driven for Hayden a couple of times in NZ and has experience up to APRC level, though nothing at WRC level that I know of.

Does the claim about Seb pairing with Meeke have any source/confirmation though or is it still just the rumour mill?

[AnttiL]

Does the claim about Seb pairing with Meeke have any source/confirmation though or is it still just the rumour mill?
Colin Clark's Kitchen Table :)

[AnttiL]

Get the impression from what?

I mean if we imagine that Paddon's contract at Hyundai or any other WRC team wouldn't continue, and he would just go back to NZ to do his AP4+ drives and other Hyundai business, Seb Marshall wouldn't have a role in that. In that case he would obviously jump into another WRC team where a full season job would be available.

In fact, Marshall could have prefered Meeke because that's a full season drive and Paddon would only have a limited program.

[mknight]

Think people are just making too much out of it.
For Paddon changing codriver also makes sense cause while better that last year, his season wasn't really great.
If he doesn't go to Msport he can imo always do part season at Hyundai.

[sollitt]

Think people are just making too much out of it.On the money. Seb is confirmed with Meeke seemingly. Paddon will be in the WRC. There are options for co-drivers.

[dodge33cymru]

Malcolm has co-driven for Hayden a couple of times in NZ and has experience up to APRC level, though nothing at WRC level that I know of.

Does the claim about Seb pairing with Meeke have any source/confirmation though or is it still just the rumour mill?

I think it's fairly "open rumour mill", like Lappi to Citroen was.

http://planetemarcus.com/kris-meeke-continue-son-apprentissage-chez-toyota/

Meeke may be banking on the "Only Sebastians win World Championships" theory.

[Rally Power]

Boldest carrer jump ever? French junior champ, Adrien Fourmaux, will be in WRC2 next year backed by the FFSA, after only two seasons in rally, mainly driving a Fiesta R2J (R2 with almost standart engine). He will make his R5 debut next wkd in Rallye du Var, the last round of the French series. Fingers crossed!

https://www.rallye-sport.fr/du-lourd-pour-adrien-fourmaux/

[dupanton]

Boldest carrer jump ever? French junior champ, Adrien Fourmaux, will be in WRC2 next year backed by the FFSA, after only two seasons in rally, mainly driving a Fiesta R2J (R2 with almost standart engine). He will make his R5 debut next wkd in Rallye du Var, the last round of the French series. Fingers crossed!

https://www.rallye-sport.fr/du-lourd-pour-adrien-fourmaux/

I saw him driving twice this year, the guy is impressive. But jumping straight to WRC2 is... ambitious!
BTW: R2J has almost stock engine, sequential R2 gearbox and R1 suspension

[Eli]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140186/ogier-questioned-why-he-leaving-msport

Second thoughts on the move....

[T16]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140186/ogier-questioned-why-he-leaving-msport

Second thoughts on the move....

No. He's just being complementary to a great team and boss, and rightly so.

[PLuto]

Boldest carrer jump ever? French junior champ, Adrien Fourmaux, will be in WRC2 next year backed by the FFSA, after only two seasons in rally, mainly driving a Fiesta R2J (R2 with almost standart engine). He will make his R5 debut next wkd in Rallye du Var, the last round of the French series. Fingers crossed!

https://www.rallye-sport.fr/du-lourd-pour-adrien-fourmaux/

Bad decision, it is too early...

[pantealex]

Bad decision, it is too early...

Yes, even Kalle Rovanperä did practise year with R5 before ERC/WRC level.

[AnttiL]

Yes, even Kalle Rovanperä did practise year with R5 before ERC/WRC level.

or actually two 4WD seasons (half of 2016 with S2000) and his 2017 season was very busy with completing three series (Latvia, Finland, Italy) and also some WRC events.

[denkimi]

Bad decision, it is too early...
Indeed. He should have done atleast one season of jwrc to learn the stages, combined with some local championship to learn the r5 car.

[N.O.T]

If the talent is there its never too early for anything, there are many examples for this in motorsport.

[BigWorm]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140207/fia-under-pressure-to-bring-virtual-chicanes

Virtual chicanes. Oh boy....

[EstWRC]

thanks tractor guy

[dimviii]

"I have two days on gravel and two days on Tarmac," Ogier told Autosport.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140216/ogier-to-make-citroen-test-return-next-week

[cali]

Just remove those friggin chicanes and average stage speed and end of story

[BigWorm]

Just remove those friggin chicanes and average stage speed and end of story

I don't mind real chicanes if done properly, but virtual? Come on...

[wia5958]

Thats slightly different to what they said after the incident is it not. They said the marshalls took it upon themselves to get the tractor and move the bale. But surely if the tractor was left there by organisers the blame falls on them. Either way shouldnt of happened. And thankfully nobody was hurt. Why not just add say a 5 -10 second penalty for hitting a bale chicane. Would surely keep drivers from hitting them and slowing adequatly for them. They have them in their notes they know their a moveable object that you can get away with clipping if u come into them too fast the drivers just dont give them enough respect but thats my opinion

[Franky]

You can call me sadistic, but I think Valtra should take the opportunity and become a WRC series sponsor. They'd sponsor all the chicanes and no one would ever want to touch the chicanes.

[Allez Andruet]

You can call me sadistic, but I think Valtra should take the opportunity and become a WRC series sponsor. They'd sponsor all the chicanes and no one would ever want to touch the chicanes.

And no-one would ever want to buy a Valtra tractor again. That might slightly conflict with their marketing strategy.

[Franky]

And no-one would ever want to buy a Valtra tractor again. That might slightly conflict with their marketing strategy.

If you don't want anyone touching the chicanes, you have to make them so that no one would want to touch them. Everyone knows the consequences.

And marketing strategies change.

[Rally Power]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140207/fia-under-pressure-to-bring-virtual-chicanes

Virtual chicanes. Oh boy....

Honestly, the virtual chicane is the most absurd idea anyone could thought for rally, even worse than car park SSS’s. People in the FIA are probably looking for ways to turn the other motorsport series as ridiculous as their beloved FE. It doesn’t even deserve to be tested; just bin it!

[Tarmop]

But if they do, then in addition to a really expensive car there`s also a pretty expensive piece of "chicane" broken. Quite a costly suggestion.:D

[SubaruNorway]

Honestly, the virtual chicane is the most absurd idea anyone could thought for rally, even worse than car park SSS’s. People in the FIA are probably looking for ways to turn the other motorsport series as ridiculous as their beloved FE. It doesn’t even deserve to be tested; just bin it!

What's absurd with a car braking in a straight line to a certain speed and accelerating again?

Here it done on a long straight for safety before a tricky braking into a right hander with some trees on the edge of the road i could see someone having had a nasty crash before.
https://youtu.be/eXXV10bJcRQ?t=132

[Tarmop]

"What's absurd with a car braking in a straight line to a certain speed and accelerating again?"

This is absurd, like watering plants when it`s pouring rain. It is a rally special stage, ment to be driven as fast as possible and without a physical reason braking and accelerating is bad, it doesn`t make anything safer or more interesting, just sillier.

[cali]

And also in the very tricky section they should add virtual speedtrap and you can only accelerate on the straights. Would be fun and "safe".

[SubaruNorway]

"What's absurd with a car braking in a straight line to a certain speed and accelerating again?"

This is absurd, like watering plants when it`s pouring rain. It is a rally special stage, ment to be driven as fast as possible and without a physical reason braking and accelerating is bad, it doesn`t make anything safer or more interesting, just sillier.

So if you have a icy corner in MC where you would normally arrive at 190kph with no space for a chicane before it with a 100m drop, would it not be safer to arrive at 100kph...?
Maybe some stages that normally wouldn't be used due to safety could be used for a small sacrifice on a part of a stage, safety and nature of the stage is what the FIA said they would consider more now than just average speed.

[stefanvv]

EMP to shut down all electronics.

[Rally Power]

What's absurd with a car braking in a straight line to a certain speed and accelerating again?

Here it done on a long straight for safety before a tricky braking into a right hander with some trees on the edge of the road i could see someone having had a nasty crash before.
https://youtu.be/eXXV10bJcRQ?t=132

Simply because it’s against Rally most basic principal: driving fast on a road stage. People can understand the use of chicanes and some (very few) actually are challenging driving spots, but there’s nothing challenging on a brake test in a middle of a straight.

Rally is living a fantastic era; let’s not ruin it!

[Tarmop]

That example video, with the stop and go and dangerous corner...car starts accelerating ~2.39 and gets to the corner in 2.49-2.50. Now a with the acceleration of a rally car, well demonstrated in this video, a speed of 160-170 km/h is achieved. Can`t say that it makes any difference, maybe even more dangerous, because you have to make up what you loose in your reaction/ not going through the "chicane" perfectly. Putting a haybale in front, lets say 50 m., that would make it safer...maybe. Same with the Monte example.

[wia5958]

So if you have a icy corner in MC where you would normally arrive at 190kph with no space for a chicane before it with a 100m drop, would it not be safer to arrive at 100kph...?
Maybe some stages that normally wouldn't be used due to safety could be used for a small sacrifice on a part of a stage, safety and nature of the stage is what the FIA said they would consider more now than just average speed.
Arrive at 190 or 100 if its an icy corner ur still gonna have the same problem ur braking points just gonna be in a different place with the accelleration of these new wrc cars it would need to be 100yards or less before the corner posing a new problem a hard accellerating car trying to brake up

[cali]

So if you have a icy corner in MC where you would normally arrive at 190kph with no space for a chicane before it with a 100m drop, would it not be safer to arrive at 100kph...?
Maybe some stages that normally wouldn't be used due to safety could be used for a small sacrifice on a part of a stage, safety and nature of the stage is what the FIA said they would consider more now than just average speed.Yes! WSDC - world safe driving championship. Nobody would watch it but it would be safe!

Jesus Christ SN. You are a very experienced guy what comes to rallying so this is shocking that this absurdity is coming from you. Just so against everything what rallying is all about.

[SubaruNorway]

Arrive at 190 or 100 if its an icy corner ur still gonna have the same problem ur braking points just gonna be in a different place

Lets say 50kph then just so you get my point, a guard rail for example can usually can take a bit, look at Lappi's crash in Spain 2017.

[SubaruNorway]

Yes! WSDC - world safe driving championship. Nobody would watch it but it would be safe!

Jesus Christ SN. You are a very experienced guy what comes to rallying so this is shocking that this absurdity is coming from you. Just so against everything what rallying is all about.

Relax, with 350km there will still be plenty of corners they can hurt themselves, I'm just talking about the really nasty places maybe once or twice during a whole event.

[cali]

Relax, with 350km there will still be plenty of corners they can hurt themselves, I'm just talking about the really nasty places maybe once or twice during a whole event.The whole Monte and Australia were full of nasty places. Ultimate test of man and machine for the world's finest. This isn't some sissy competition.

[wia5958]

Yes i see your point but lets say for example the road is icy and start braking but slide through the virtual chicane at high speed faster than the allocated speed for it. But manage to recover control and get around the corner successfully. Will the driver be penalised for going too fast through the virtual chicane?

[Rally Power]

Relax, with 350km there will still be plenty of corners they can hurt themselves, I'm just talking about the really nasty places maybe once or twice during a whole event.

Don’t fool yourself; if virtual chicane BS become available, organizers would immediately try to replace current chicanes for it and even tend to use it in more ‘dangerous’ spots, as it’d be a much easier system to implement. Most likely we would end having several per stage.

PS: thanks for the typo tip.

[T16]

Yes i see your point but lets say for example the road is icy and start braking but slide through the virtual chicane at high speed faster than the allocated speed for it. But manage to recover control and get around the corner successfully. Will the driver be penalised for going too fast through the virtual chicane?

Yes. They should brake earlier.

[SubaruNorway]

Don’t full yourself; if virtual chicane BS become available, organizers would immediately try to replace current chicanes for it.

Fool*
Which aren't that many anyway.
I just think it's a more fair option than having one car crash through it and then a car sitting at the start line knowing It's not there anymore which can keep almost flat through it like we saw in Australia.

Would be pretty silly if we had the best season for ages and then it being decided on the last round because of a chicane right?

[GravelBen]

I just think it's a more fair option than having one car crash through it and then a car sitting at the start line knowing It's not there anymore which can keep almost flat through it like we saw in Australia.

That is actually a downside of the WRC+ live coverage, drivers waiting for the stage can get advance warning of tricky conditions or others going off so they don't need to push etc.

Not sure what the answer is though, you could have regroups with no communication allowed between regroup and stage? But hard to enforce and could add delays to the rally schedule.

[denkimi]

The whole Monte and Australia were full of nasty places. Ultimate test of man and machine for the world's finest. This isn't some sissy competition.
Corsica is also full of huge drops, Finland is full of very high speed sections with dangerous trees right next them, if someone goes off at the great Orme stage in wales we certainly have 2 dead people, ...
Rally is not safe and can never be made safe to the same extend as circuit racing.

Chicanes are only usefull to prevent crazy drivers in the back from hurting themself, like when they are put before dangerous situations like jumps that can't be taken flat out without crashing.

[dupanton]

Not that important, but Serderidis announced Australia was his last rally.

[rp]

Not that important, but Serderidis announced Australia was his last rally.

Great to finish his career with Lara in the top ten! Hopefully Jourdan will support Bergkvist and some other drivers...

[Japé]

Any particular reason said why Serderidis quits? Generally both WRC and WRC2 needs a lot of private drivers like back in the days, e.g. 10 per rally to WRC and 25 per rally to WRC2 should be FIA / WRC promoter set target.

Besides rallying himself, Serderidis is nro 1 rally fan and nice person for rally media, we would need more people like him. And especially more rally crew members like Lara!

[dupanton]

Any particular reason said why Serderidis quits? Generally both WRC and WRC2 needs a lot of private drivers like back in the days, e.g. 10 per rally to WRC and 25 per rally to WRC2 should be FIA / WRC promoter set target.

Besides rallying himself, Serderidis is nro 1 rally fan and nice person for rally media, we would need more people like him. And especially more rally crew members like Lara!

"Personal Reasons"

[N.O.T]

Not that important, but Serderidis announced Australia was his last rally.

finally some good news... he was nothing.

Its the wrc, the level of drivers must be at some standard.

[EstWRC]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140234/middle-of-nowhere-finale-frustrates-wrc-teams

Drop this round already.

[deephouse]

finally some good news... he was nothing.

Its the wrc, the level of drivers must be at some standard.

You said that about Neuville too, and whole Toyota team. And Brits

[AnttiL]

Virtual chicane discussion on twitter https://twitter.com/skunnercampbell/status/1064985691422162944 At least Rich Millener from M-Sport and Iain Campbell of Wales Rally GB are defending them.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Suninen:
Some changes will happen concerning the WRC season 2019. We ended our co-operation with Mikko and the new man will step in. From now on I will compete with Marko Salminen. Big thanks to Mikko for taking me to this level where I am today. https://t.co/VrEv4mzMCe

[AnttiL]

Marko Salminen has spent past seasons with Katsuta. Quite interesting change. Will Katsuta now continue with the Japanese co-driver?

[Andre Oliveira]

I guess Lehtinen. Arai out of Toyota program now.

Great choice. Salminen is a great guy and great codriver.

[BigWorm]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140234/middle-of-nowhere-finale-frustrates-wrc-teams

Drop this round already.

But Colin Clark needs his service park hospitality

[pantealex]

What if someone does not break to that virtual chicane? (I don´t mean penalty way)

There could be nasty accidents coming if there is huge drop or nasty corner after that.

That way real chicanes are better.

There is high possibility that some driver could miss that virtual one.

[tommeke_B]

+1, especially for drivers who are amateurs to WRC events it could be dangerous.

[wia5958]

Yes. They should brake earlier.

Thats my point exactly. Without the chicane they would be braking earlier not accellerating out of a virtual chicane. But dont matter what we say on here or think. Its the idiots in fhe power above will do as they please regardless of driver or fan opinions

[dimviii]

@TeemuSuninenRac

Some changes will happen concerning the WRC season 2019. We ended our co-operation with Mikko and the new man will step in. From now on I will compete with Marko Salminen. Big thanks to Mikko for taking me to this level where I am today.

[Hartusvuori]

+1, especially for drivers who are amateurs to WRC events it could be dangerous.

I doubt a real dangerous place wouldn't be taken away with real chicane. Use of virtual chicanes doesn't exclude the use of physica chicanes. Virtual chicane is perfect for fast sections used for connecting roads/sections. The most importantly it saves resources from the organizers and - as being virtual - is more safe than a physical chicane. There must be something wrong in my mind because I see no harm in introducing virtual chicanes more into rallying. For sure I know how to stay far away from them.

[Mirek]

I don't se it as dangerous but for me it's simply ridiculous and stupid idea.

[GravelBen]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140234/middle-of-nowhere-finale-frustrates-wrc-teams

Drop this round already.

How dare they have a rally out in the countryside instead of a city! :rolleyes:

[T16]

I don't se it as dangerous but for me it's simply ridiculous and stupid idea.

Why? They have to slow for a chicane. Chicanes seem to be riddles with problems. They have the same effect without the hassle, so what's the problem?

[Hartusvuori]

I don't se it as dangerous but for me it's simply ridiculous and stupid idea.

So it's the mindset of slowing down for nothing instead of slowing down for an imaginerary physical object? I hope you all understand why chicanes are there in the first place.

[Tarmop]

A physical chicane, in addition to bringing safety, adds something to the competition...you have to be nimble and presice. I would even prefer if there was compulsory tire change in that spot...something to remind a competition, but just stopping... .:D

[Mirek]

Why? They have to slow for a chicane. Chicanes seem to be riddles with problems. They have the same effect without the hassle, so what's the problem?

Because with physical chicane You actually have to break to go through some given fixed object on the road and do that as fast as possible. It's not possible to do that with virtual chicane. You can't make them all brake on the same spot. How would that work? In my understanding You can get some signalization to slow down on certain speed but for that You need to give also some time window do so which means the virtual chicane is not a fixed obstacle but a variable one. It can work on very long boring straights but for what? There's no danger there. You usually need the chicane to be at some very dangerous spot but on such place You usually don't have the luxury to create a 100 meters long zone in which they need to slow down because You would need to give the signal for example in the middle of the turn which is of course bullshit and a dangerous one on top.

Also how do You give the crew the information that it slowed down enough? In a real chicane it's clear. You either pass clear or don't pass and You need some skill to do so. Nothing to argue about (with proper rules not those which are present in WRC). But with a virtual chicane? Would You give a sound or light signal that the braking was enough and they can accelerate again or how is that supposed to work? This is not an F1 where You simply activate a speed limiter for driving through boxes.

[SubaruNorway]

Would You give a sound or light signal that the braking was enough and they can accelerate again or how is that supposed to work? This is not an F1 where You simply activate a speed limiter for driving through boxes.

It's pretty simple
https://youtu.be/b1Vw9BXDU24

[T16]

Because with physical chicane You actually have to break to go through some given fixed object on the road and do that as fast as possible. It's not possible to do that with virtual chicane. You can't make them all brake on the same spot. How would that work? In my understanding You can get some signalization to slow down on certain speed but for that You need to give also some time window do so which means the virtual chicane is not a fixed obstacle but a variable one. It can work on very long boring straights but for what? There's no danger there. You usually need the chicane to be at some very dangerous spot but on such place You usually don't have the luxury to create a 100 meters long zone in which they need to slow down because You would need to give the signal for example in the middle of the turn which is of course bullshit and a dangerous one on top.

Also how do You give the crew the information that it slowed down enough? In a real chicane it's clear. You either pass clear or don't pass and You need some skill to do so. Nothing to argue about (with proper rules not those which are present in WRC). But with a virtual chicane? Would You give a sound or light signal that the braking was enough and they can accelerate again or how is that supposed to work? This is not an F1 where You simply activate a speed limiter for driving through boxes.


I think you’re over thinking it. Can’t see why they can’t all just drop to a certain speed within a certain marked area, for a specified distance.
e.g. they all have to drop to 30kph for fifty metres anywhere within a 100m zone.
Modern tech will play a part, no doubt about it.
Regarding their use, I’m not sure if they will play a part in reducing average stage times, slow crews in a particularly dangerous area or possibly both.
Either way, if it increases safety and reduces all the shit and shite that seems to go with a traditional chicane, I honestly can’t see why you or anyone are getting so worked up about it.
Fair enough, be silly enough to watch a stage at that point and you’re losing out, but otherwise... no problem.

[Mirek]

It's pretty simple
https://youtu.be/b1Vw9BXDU24

So basically what I thougt, i.e. something You can hardly put in pacenotes (You know drivers in rally do drive on pacenotes), You need to watch some indication and You need to choose an area which is large enough to allow creation of slowing-down distance, i.e. it absolutely can not be used on all places where chicanes are placed now.

For me this is useful only to slow down the average speed and not the trully dangerous places and that means it has little to no effect on safety.

On top of that it's completely silly to watch as pointed out already.


...and reduces all the shit and shite that seems to go with a traditional chicane...

Isn't it much better to simply create clear rules for chicanes? It does work in some countries like here in CZ if the rules are clear and written black on white. The shit going on in WRC is only a result of non-existing rules.

[Rally Power]

Virtual chicane discussion on twitter https://twitter.com/skunnercampbell/status/1064985691422162944 At least Rich Millener from M-Sport and Iain Campbell of Wales Rally GB are defending them.

Organizers (like Campbell) probably have a very biased opinion on this, as virtual chicanes would be a much easier and cheaper way for them to follow safety guidelines.

We should go back and take a look on why it’s said we need chicanes: a) they’re there to slow down cars in some risky spots; b) they’re there to make stages average speed lower.

In the first case we all know there will never be enough chicanes (physical or virtual) in place to make rally routes totally secure and accidents will continue to happen, even in places that no one thought were dangerous.

The second was already debated after 2017 Sweden and Finland events and the common acceptation is that lowering the average speed with chicanes doesn’t make the stages safer and the average speed limit isn’t by itself a reliable safety indicator.

So, like the current physical chicanes, virtual chicanes would hardly make stages safer but certainly would make the sport looking ridiculous. Let’s avoid it.

[T16]

Isn't it much better to simply create clear rules for chicanes? It does work in some countries like here in CZ if the rules are clear and written black on white. The shit going on in WRC is only a result of non-existing rules.[/QUOTE]

Define better... easier? cheaper? I'm not sure, once the technology is in place it will be either.

I do take your point regarding it potentially causing a problem because of current chicane location versus where any 'slow-zones' would be activated, but I'm hoping the guys running the show at this top level would be able to find a safe solution.

[Tarmop]

Traditional chicanes: Haybale is cheap, it can be used everywhere and in addition to safety it gives you an element of competition, and demands skills.
Virtual chicane: Some area in a pointless place, where there is no need to limit the power and speed of a current generation WRC, that was made faster than previous one...for some reason, causes pointless mess in the car, no skills needed, and can cause pointless timeloss. Adds to safety= 0.

[SubaruNorway]

So basically what I thougt, i.e. something You can hardly put in pacenotes (You know drivers in rally do drive on pacenotes), You need to watch some indication and You need to choose an area which is large enough to allow creation of slowing-down distance, i.e. it absolutely can not be used on all places where chicanes are placed now.

Why can you not put it in the pacenotes?
It's a fixed place probably marked with count down boards, a beginning and end with similar boards as the finish line ones so impossible to miss.
And this takes no space as long as the car is straight coming into the area you can pretty much put it anywhere, with a hay balle chicane you need a wide enough road to do it, and often it destroys the road edges.

[Tarmop]

If it is a road then there is room for a chicane, it could be tighter and slower, but for sure there is room. It could also be a barrel not a haybale or what ever-easy and light enough for one marshal to move back to its place.

[AL14]

I don't see that big problems with chicanes as they are now. The only problem I see is that a lot of them are rather useless (like the famous one in mexico). Just use a couple of haybales only in very long straights and put a couple of steward there that will quickly put them in place again in case someone hit them. I don't see any problem. Virtual chicanes to me seem just weird and ugly.

[dodge33cymru]

Just use a couple of haybales only in very long straights and put a couple of steward there that will quickly put them in place again

Or a tractor...



That said, please not virtual chicanes; it looks daft enough when trials/regularities do it.

[cali]

I do take your point regarding it potentially causing a problem because of current chicane location versus where any 'slow-zones' would be activated, but I'm hoping the guys running the show at this top level would be able to find a safe solution.

They haven't found good solutions so far, what makes you think they will do it in the future? Quite naive to think top level is actually on a top thinking level...

[cali]

Why can you not put it in the pacenotes?
It's a fixed place probably marked with count down boards, a beginning and end with similar boards as the finish line ones so impossible to miss.
And this takes no space as long as the car is straight coming into the area you can pretty much put it anywhere, with a hay balle chicane you need a wide enough road to do it, and often it destroys the road edges.So excessive amount different boards and signals is cheaper than 4 haybales in one place?

[EstWRC]

Am I the only one on this forum who thinks Ogier/Citroen is the force to reckon next season?

the car is awesome on tarmac (maybe even the best) and they have made big steps with it also on gravel. Of course there is still some work to do, especially when the conditions are slippery. Also, Loeb showed us on all 3 occasions that you can be fast with this car.

They may struggle a little in the beginning of the season but Ogier coming with his knowledge from VW and M-sport and Lappi with his knowledge from Toyota, i think they can sort the issues rather sooner than later.

[AnttiL]

Am I the only one on this forum who thinks Ogier/Citroen is the force to reckon next season?

I think it's Tänak/Toyota