[WRC] News & Rumours 2019

[Hartusvuori]

Am I the only one on this forum who thinks Ogier/Citroen is the force to reckon next season?

the car is awesome on tarmac (maybe even the best) and they have made big steps with it also on gravel. Of course there is still some work to do, especially when the conditions are slippery. Also, Loeb showed us on all 3 occasions that you can be fast with this car.

They may struggle a little in the beginning of the season but Ogier coming with his knowledge from VW and M-sport and Lappi with his knowledge from Toyota, i think they can sort the issues rather sooner than later.

You're not the only one.

[Toyoda]

You're not the only one.

Agreed, with Ostbergs performance, to me it proves with some tweaking it will be a weapon

[pantealex]

I believe in both combos Ogier/Citroen and Tänak/Toyota.

Neuville is not 2019 champion.

[Allez Andruet]

I would put it this way: if anyone's to beat the combination of Ogier and Citroen, it's Tänak and Toyota. Or the other way around ;)

[Marcco]

Am I the only one on this forum who thinks Ogier/Citroen is the force to reckon next season?

the car is awesome on tarmac (maybe even the best) and they have made big steps with it also on gravel. Of course there is still some work to do, especially when the conditions are slippery. Also, Loeb showed us on all 3 occasions that you can be fast with this car.

They may struggle a little in the beginning of the season but Ogier coming with his knowledge from VW and M-sport and Lappi with his knowledge from Toyota, i think they can sort the issues rather sooner than later.

I agree regarding Ogier/Citroen. The questions is - will Toyota manage to keep the momentum and improve further for next season? And even bigger question is - will Hyundai manage to up their pace?

[Päss1928]

Am I the only one on this forum who thinks Ogier/Citroen is the force to reckon next season?


Nope. I think he will definitely be faster than this year and he still won the title this year. Scary.

[SubaruNorway]

So excessive amount different boards and signals is cheaper than 4 haybales in one place?

Yes, and it's a one time investment and a one man's job done in 5min

[AnttiL]

Yes, and it's a one time investment and a one man's job done in 5min

Does this mean every car attending a WRC event will have to have the device? Do they have to buy it, or will the rally organizer supply the unit for each competitor?

[rp]

Definitely it will be two horses race with Ogier & Tänak. Neuville, Latvala, Meeke & Lappi will fight for the 3rd place...

[Mirek]

Yes, and it's a one time investment and a one man's job done in 5min

There are not only 12 works WRC cars but also up to 100 other cars which are different on each event and it absolutely has to work with all of them. It's not easy even with GPS to make it working for everyone.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Does this mean every car attending a WRC event will have to have the device? Do they have to buy it, or will the rally organizer supply the unit for each competitor?

Yes every everyone would need a RallySafe unit. No extra cost as all cars already have RallySafe units including support classes

[KiwiWRCfan]

There are not only 12 works WRC cars but also up to 100 other cars which are different on each event and it absolutely has to work with all of them. It's not easy even with GPS to make it working for everyone.

Unnecessary concern Mirek. Technology is already developed and well tested. System is already used at events in New Zealand, Australia and many other countries

[Tarmop]

And as we know, technology and rallysafe (or any other timing service) work so flawlessly, especially in some unhabitated forest or mountain like we have seen this year and previous years. And we are back not making it actually safer...

[Mirek]

Unnecessary concern Mirek. Technology is already developed and well tested. System is already used at events in New Zealand, Australia and many other countries

I can't compare the systems but from my experience from ERC Barum rally there is always a certain number of competitors whose safety system doesn't work in scrutineering and there are technicians needed to deal with that (replace the unit or solve the issue in other way). It takes time even when in our case more than half of the competitors have the system installed already before the event (as they use the same one in the national championship).

[br21]

I don't know how it works in NZ, but in WRC events RallySafe units were struggling from time to time. Loosing signal, cars disappearing from map or from timing, strange times, etc. Later in the season it was on acceptable level in general but not to take control of virtual chicanes/slow zones.
Non Manufacturer teams were able to buy their antenna/connection kits, units themselves each time were collected from the SAS and given back after the event. There were often problems to install the units as they are pretty big and heavy (as mounting needs to be solid and unit accessible for both crew members seated and tightened), also availability of kits with longer antenna wires or especially remote LED units was very, very limited.
In general all the features and possibilities were OK, I like it and it's big step forward from previous Spanish units, but it's not stable enough to control slow zones.
And Dutch version of the system is really weak...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Straw bales are useless. Why not build proper, heavy-duty chicanes that cant be pushed around ?

If driver's know they cant hit them without damaging their car they will treat them with respect.

[kiil]

Straw bales are useless. Why not build proper, heavy-duty chicanes that cant be pushed around ?

If driver's know they cant hit them without damaging their car they will treat them with respect.

The purpose of chicanes is not to destroy cars.

[denkimi]

Straw bales are useless. Why not build proper, heavy-duty chicanes that cant be pushed around ?

If driver's know they cant hit them without damaging their car they will treat them with respect.
i have seen metal shipping container being used here.


The purpose of chicanes is not to destroy cars.
the goal of chicanes is not to hit them.

[Tarmop]

It needs quite an impact to be moved ( 1m x 1m bale is 300-500 kg, quite a bit)...if it was fined with a 10 sec. penalty, then they would stay in one place most of the time... 1m3 IBC container is about the same size and over one ton.

[SubaruNorway]

And as we know, technology and rallysafe (or any other timing service) work so flawlessly, especially in some unhabitated forest or mountain like we have seen this year and previous years. And we are back not making it actually safer...

It seems very accurate, not sure if it works on GPS position as that's pre programed in the unit, but they have the correct time to the tenth in the car just as they pass the finish line now i can hear from the co driver, before the co driver would give the time he had manually taken on the watch. So if that works in a tight forest having the same pre programmed line for the virtual chicane should also work fine.

[Mirek]

It seems very accurate, not sure if it works on GPS position as that's pre programed in the unit, but they have the correct time to the tenth in the car just as they pass the finish line now i can hear from the co driver, before the co driver would give the time he had manually taken on the watch. So if that works in a tight forest having the same pre programmed line for the virtual chicane should also work fine.

That's really not enough to control these virtual chicanes.

[spiderem]

Jesus are we still talking about chicane here?? let's hope we have news soon from Paddon, Evans and Breen to end the agony.

[SubaruNorway]

That's really not enough to control these virtual chicanes.

How do you know, have you tried? ;)
Anyway it shouldn't be an issue just doing it manually if there's an glitch

[Mirek]

How do you know, have you tried? ;)
Anyway it shouldn't be an issue just doing it manually if there's an glitch

It's pretty obvious that having a good time onboard is absolutely not enough to have reliable virtual chicanes and it's a fact that the location has not been working 100% accurate so far (without that it can never be a reliable system). And no, it can not be controlled manually.

[SubaruNorway]

It's pretty obvious that having a good time onboard is absolutely not enough to have reliable virtual chicanes and it's a fact that the location has not been working 100% accurate so far (without that it can never be a reliable system). And no, it can not be controlled manually.

With the Rally Safe system or the Czech one?
Gary from NZ is saying they are now used there without concerns.
Should be more reliable than a normal chicane where one car goes 40kph and the next 150kph like on SS7 in Australia.

Why not?
If the system does not activate for the zone coming up you just brake at the boards to 50kph which the co-driver keeps an eye on and you can check it in the log later.

[Mirek]

With the Rally Safe system or the Czech one?
Gary from NZ is saying they are now used there without concerns.
Should be more reliable than a normal chicane where one car goes 40kph and the next 150kph like on SS7 in Australia.

Why not?
If the system does not activate for the zone coming up you just brake at the boards to 50kph which the co-driver keeps an eye on and you can check it in the log later.

With current WRC tracking system.

[Mk2 RS2000]

Being one of the countries that has been using Rallysafe since its inception Motorsport in NZ has been working very closely with the company. We have situations where after the rally has been plotted the local authority may have had to undertake roadworks on a short section of a planned special stage and they do not want the cars to travel over it at speed so with rallysafe we plot in a "Restricted Speed Zone". We plot in the co-ordinates to a point where stage timing stops followed by a point where the speed restriction starts followed by a point where the speed restriction ends and special stage timing recommences. We also track the speed of the competing car through the restricted zone and penalties are applied for excess speed and/or excessively slow speed and/or stopping in the restricted zone. It really is quite easy to do and it very effective.

As an example at one NZRC event this season the local authority notified the event organisers of a restriction after recce had been completed yet the zone was able to be plotted accurately and loaded into the in-car units and Bulletins issued within 2 hours. Had this facility not been available there would have been no other option than to cancel the stage and plot a major re-route to avoid using the road. Something that would have taken many hours to undertake plus would have seen the competitors sitting in excess 2 hours doing nothing until they continued with their event.

Obviously landmarks and rally signage are the markers for the start and finish of these zones and Rallysafe displays a countdown to the start/finish of the zones and speed display whilst in them.

[satnav]

Am I the only one on this forum who thinks Ogier/Citroen is the force to reckon next season?

the car is awesome on tarmac (maybe even the best) and they have made big steps with it also on gravel. Of course there is still some work to do, especially when the conditions are slippery. Also, Loeb showed us on all 3 occasions that you can be fast with this car.

They may struggle a little in the beginning of the season but Ogier coming with his knowledge from VW and M-sport and Lappi with his knowledge from Toyota, i think they can sort the issues rather sooner than later.

You are not the only one, in any of the current cars Seb Ogier would be a force ……..

[gorganl2000]

i do think Ogier will be a forced to be reckoned with in Citroen and in any car, period. This has been proven time and time again through out his career. The guy is a great talent. However, having said that, i also believe that Tanak and Neuville now have the ability and personal confidence to fight with him on every rally. That personal belief in themselves is very important--- mental strength. They now know/think they can and do win, which is a bit different from a few years ago. As well, the other "support" drivers certainly have the ability to win/fight on some events (Latvala, Meeke, Lappi, Mikkelsen more so) and take points away. I'm hoping next season will be just as thrilling as this one was.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

On the subject of chicanes, and also tractors... remember this ?!

https://images.cdn.circlesix.co/image/1/1000/0/uploads/posts/2016/08/eec1f0f9651e67e90452608901fef1a6.jpg

[Allez Andruet]

On the subject of chicanes, and also tractors... remember this ?!
Uhh... unfortunately yes. Not the most glorious moment in the history of Rally Finland.

[TyPat107]

I did an event with cones for a chicane and it was made clear at the drivers meeting each cone knocked down or moved from it's box was a 10 second penalty. I think the only driver to hit one that day was Pastrana who took out 11.

That said the idea of a chicane just to keep an average speed on a stage down seems silly.
It needs quite an impact to be moved ( 1m x 1m bale is 300-500 kg, quite a bit)...if it was fined with a 10 sec. penalty, then they would stay in one place most of the time... 1m3 IBC container is about the same size and over one ton.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Googol]

On the subject of chicanes, and also tractors... remember this ?!

Maybe not so well thought especially after Bianchi hitting a tractor, but surely that is less dangerous than driving 200 km/h in the middle of a forest.

[jbmarcus21]

All you need to know about 2019 #WRC Season with schedule, itinerary, road program, timetable, full new standings and more ... Ready to go for next season ► http://bit.ly/XL8nl9

[COD]

I still think that ending the WRC in Australia is a bad thing (from European perspective). No way following live. I think it great to have an event there, but since mahority of fans are still in Europe, it is anticlimax. Finish in the UK as traditionally has been, would be the best.

[deephouse]

So today is the day when Skoda announce publicly that they will not participate in top class.

[Got Mail]

No Pontus for SKODA in 2019

[Got Mail]

Kalle and Kopecky only ... so far.

[deephouse]

I think that will be Ingram. They have been praising him for some quite time now. For Pontus I think that if he will not be in the WRC then if VW comes as factory team or Proton that he will went there. He will not just stop here.

[Andre Oliveira]

Pontus need to be in M-Sport Fiesta WRC. NOW OR NEVER!

[hari]

Gallery VW Polo GTI R5 - a closer view: http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_vw_polo_gti_r5_a_closer_view_brr.html

http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2018/vw_polo_gti_r5_brr/vw_polo_gti_r5_brr_illmer_10.jpg

[dimviii]

Kalle and Kopecky only ... so far.

Νοrdgren?

[Essaj]

Νοrdgren?

Hasn't raced since July so it was likely that he would be dropped

[deephouse]

With four years of an extraordinary rallying career under its belt, and a fresh version of the road-going ŠKODA FABIA hitting the streets, it’s time for the most successful car in ŠKODA Motorsport history to explore a new look. To celebrate the best season in its history, the team presents a design study of a future rally challenger that incorporates key elements of the new road-going FABIA.

The new look incorporates a more dynamic design of the front end, inspired by the road-going version, as well as fresh new looks for both headlights and taillights, which are now equipped with LED technology to underscore the cutting edge looks of the car. The ŠKODA Motorsport colour scheme has also evolved to keep pace with these changes. The study foreshadows the look of future generations of the FABIA R5, which is planned to be homologated in the second half of 2019 and made available to customers later.

To celebrate the current version of FABIA R5 and its outstanding career, ŠKODA Motorsport decided to dress it up in the colour it so often collected in this season – gold. The golden livery is based on the 2018 season’s colour scheme, with celebratory number 1 markings, stylized laurels and lettering over the windscreen which reads “WRC2 CHAMPION 2018”. The car will feature in a series of photoshoots and videos, and is going to be exhibited first in Mladá Boleslav and later at Prague airport.


In the four years since its debut in 2015, the ŠKODA FABIA R5 has proved itself to be the most successful car in the history of ŠKODA Motorsport. Its achievements are stunning. It enabled the team to win the FIA WRC 2 Championship for Teams in four consecutive years. It carried three ŠKODA factory drivers to their WRC 2 titles – Esapekka Lappi in 2016, Pontus Tidemand in 2017 and, most recently, Jan Kopecký in 2018. Jan was joined on the podium by Pontus Tidemand and Kalle Rovanperä in a fantastic 1-2-3 finish.
In 2019, two crews will represent ŠKODA Motorsport on the tracks of WRC 2. Jan Kopecký and Pavel Dresler will return to try and repeat the successful season, while Kalle Rovanperä with co-driver Jonne Halttunen is going to make his second year in WRC 2 even more remarkable than the first. Besides that, Jan Kopecký will once again fight for the title in the Czech Rally Championship.


As for Pontus leaving Skoda:

After four successful seasons, crowned by the 2017 FIA WRC 2 title and a second place finish in the 2018 FIA WRC 2, the time has come for Pontus Tidemand and ŠKODA Motorsport to part ways. The team will always have fond memories of the young Swede’s great performances behind the wheel of his ŠKODA FABIA R5, together with his co-driver Jonas Andersson. To mark the end of a remarkably fruitful cooperation and to say goodbye to one of our most successful drivers, we asked Pontus a series of questions about his last season with ŠKODA. Here’s what he thinks about his performance in 2018, about his teammates and about ŠKODA.

I would say I’m especially proud of my performance at Rally Portugal. After two punctures during the Friday leg of the rally, we started a race to catch up. On Saturday we fought our way up from fifth position into the lead of the WRC 2 category.

And which rally was the biggest challenge for you, and why?

Again, I’d nominate Portugal. The first loop was a real challenge with lots of hidden stones and rocks underneath a soft surface. Whether you got a puncture or not was kind of a lottery!

Who did you consider to be the toughest competitors to beat?

Clearly my teammates Jan and Kalle. They’ve got the same fantastic car, our ŠKODA FABIA R5, and they’re really quick on all kind of surfaces.

With the season over, you now have some downtime. How will you spend the time before the 2019 season starts?

I‘ll keep myself in good shape, doing some sports but spending some time with family and friends as well.

And what are your goals for next year?

It would be nice to have a good program in a competitive car again.

Is there anyone special you would like to thank after the 2018 season?

I would like to thank the whole team; they did a great job providing me with such a fantastic car. The team spirit at ŠKODA Motorsport is really great – everybody works with such passion. And definitely my co-driver Jonas, he did a faultless job again. It’s a pleasure to compete alongside him.

In Portugal, you had to go from the bottom of the standings back to top – how hard it was and how did it feel to win against all odds?

It’s all about never giving up. I always knew during the event that we had the speed and the best car to get back on top, and that made me confident right to the finish.

Which current ŠKODA car is your favourite? Do you use one as your personal car?

I like both SUV’s Kodiaq and Karoq, they’re really great cars – nice to drive and very versatile.

How will your celebration of the 2nd place in the WRC 2 standings look like?

As I said, I’ll use my free time to meet some friends again and to have a good time.

What do you think about the talent of your young teammate Kalle Rovanperä?

He’s exceptionally talented and bloody fast, whether on tarmac, snow and ice or on gravel. He’s the man to watch in the future.

[AnttiL]

I think that will be Ingram. They have been praising him for some quite time now.

https://twitter.com/ChrisIngramGB/status/1067494690734383106

[RS]

Νοrdgren?

He’s not at the press conference so looks like it’s over for him at Skoda.

Tidemand is actually there despite leaving the team, so it must be amicable. Maybe he has something lined up already for next year.

Gold Fabia: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtCHpZOXQAEvshZ?format=jpg

[jbmarcus21]

Skoda Motorsport revealed 2019 season with new headquarters, new Fabia R5 evo2 with Rovanperä & Kopecky only. Good Bye Tidemand ► http://bit.ly/2P58pQc

[PLuto]

This is not new Fabia R5 Evo 2, but only "design study with elements of 2019 Fabia".

[dimviii]

like this livery

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtCHpZOXQAEvshZ.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

@MotorsportSkoda

@MotorsportSkoda farewell to @PontusTidemand & Jonas Andersson, thank you guys for a fantastic performance #SKODA and all the best for your future.

https://twitter.com/MotorsportSkoda/status/1067501532088811521

So where is he off to ?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

like this livery



https://skoda-ms.s3.amazonaws.com/2018/11/MOTORSPORT_WINNINGPACKAGE_2018_GOLDEN_R5_34.jpg

[denkimi]

Gallery VW Polo GTI R5 - a closer view: http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_vw_polo_gti_r5_a_closer_view_brr.html

http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2018/vw_polo_gti_r5_brr/vw_polo_gti_r5_brr_illmer_7.jpg

weird that they don't use a moveable pedalbox to keep the weight of the driver at the optimum position.

[RS]

This is not new Fabia R5 Evo 2, but only "design study with elements of 2019 Fabia".

Quite surprised it will come so late. Maybe it’s more of an upgrade than I thought.

[BigWorm]

@MotorsportSkoda

@MotorsportSkoda farewell to @PontusTidemand & Jonas Andersson, thank you guys for a fantastic performance #SKODA and all the best for your future.

https://twitter.com/MotorsportSkoda/status/1067501532088811521

So where is he off to ?

VW

[AnttiL]

VW

News or rumors? fact or guess?

[BigWorm]

News or rumors? fact or guess?

Speculation

[AnttiL]

One scenario could be a season at Citroen, split between WRC2 Pro and a couple of WRC drives...his manager has now good contacts at Citroen. Citroen also needs a championship contender for WRC2 Pro.

[rallyfiend]

Nandan out? New boss at Hyundai? Maybe.

Lots of chatter about many Hyundai changes just as they're all on the Magical Mystery tour in Korea.

[RS]

One scenario could be a season at Citroen, split between WRC2 Pro and a couple of WRC drives...his manager has now good contacts at Citroen. Citroen also needs a championship contender for WRC2 Pro.

Good idea. Pontus says he’s moving on to seek WRCar opportunities: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140394/skoda-slims-to-twocar-wrc2-entry-in-2019

VAG can’t do that.

[PLuto]

One scenario could be a season at Citroen, split between WRC2 Pro and a couple of WRC drives...his manager has now good contacts at Citroen. Citroen also needs a championship contender for WRC2 Pro.

Is Citroen interested in WRC2 Pro? Is anyone interested in WRC2 Pro?

[PLuto]

Quite surprised it will come so late. Maybe it’s more of an upgrade than I thought.

It will not be an upgrade, it will be brand new car.

[WRC1]

Is anyone interested in WRC2 Pro?

..according to yesterdays Pressconference, Skoda Motorsport is interested in WRC2 Pro...with 2 Drivers... ;)

[Co-driven]

@MotorsportSkoda

@MotorsportSkoda farewell to @PontusTidemand & Jonas Andersson, thank you guys for a fantastic performance #SKODA and all the best for your future.

https://twitter.com/MotorsportSkoda/status/1067501532088811521

So where is he off to ?

When Veiby left Skoda, I remember reading that it could be something related also to Even Management and could also reflect on Tidemand. Also relating Even and Citroen in the rumours, with the move of Veiby and Lappi there. Maybe he's off to Citroen?

[Tarmop]

Veiby published company secrets ( new SuperB facelift to be more precise) on his Instagram and that was most likely the case why he was sacked, not leaving himself.. He wasn`t performing brilliantly also...

[Mirek]

Veiby was fired because he put a photo of an internal presentation on his instagram (with not yer revealed stock car and with economical forecast for several next years). This situation definitely could worsen the relationship between Škoda and Even Management that's true but I think that Tidemand was left without new contract simply because Rovanperä has been getting better than him.


Veiby published company secrets ( new SuperB facelift to be more precise) in his Instagram and that was most likely the case why he was sacked, not leaving himself.. He wasn`t performing brilliantly also...

It was the new Scala car (successor of Rapid) on the photo but imho the even more sensitive stuff was the economical graphs on the presentation behind the car.

[Mirek]

This is not new Fabia R5 Evo 2, but only "design study with elements of 2019 Fabia".

According to Hrabánek it's not yet decided which changes currently being tested will be integrated in the car. They plan the homologation only in mid 2019.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Speculation

Not news or rumour so post in Silly Season.

[SubaruNorway]

Veiby was fired because he put a photo of an internal presentation on his instagram (with not yer revealed stock car and with economical forecast for several next years). This situation definitely could worsen the relationship between Škoda and Even Management that's true but I think that Tidemand was left without new contract simply because Rovanperä has been getting better than him.



It was the new Scala car (successor of Rapid) on the photo but imho the even more sensitive stuff was the economical graphs on the presentation behind the car.

Tidemand does say there was an option for a new contract but choose to move on.

[Barreis]

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/140416
about Neuville and Hyundai

[Rally Power]

One scenario could be a season at Citroen, split between WRC2 Pro and a couple of WRC drives...his manager has now good contacts at Citroen. Citroen also needs a championship contender for WRC2 Pro.

That sounds interesting, but then Veiby Jr. would once more suffer on a direct comparison with Tidemand; alongside Lefebvre he has more chances to shine...

Anyway, I just hope Even will give Tidemand the chance to get a proper WRC program.


PS: any news on what events and how many cars will WRC2 Pro manus run?

[T16]

Not news or rumour so post in Silly Season.

Whats the difference between rumour and speculation?

[Ucci]

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/140416
about Neuville and Hyundai
Sorry Neuville, but you had in 2017 best car.....and he had blown the title. Such chances don't come twice....
2019 will be mission impossible 4him.....

[rp]

PS: any news on what events and how many cars will WRC2 Pro manus run?

2 Skodas: Kopecky & Rovanperä. Hopefully some more also :)

[AnttiL]

Is anyone interested in WRC2 Pro?

I am :)

I hope and believe FIA has negotiated with manufacturers about interest in the series before putting it up.

[Toyoda]

Sorry Neuville, but you had in 2017 best car.....and he had blown the title. Such chances don't come twice....
2019 will be mission impossible 4him.....

Gosh Neuville is a right tosser, how do people work with such arrogance, at least with Ogier people want to work for/with him and help him to win, Neuville strikes me as the type of character that you would not drive hell for leather and stick your neck out for. He is completely oblivious to the fact that the second best driver in the Hyundai team was effectively 4th in the championship on 144 points ( 16 points ahead on Latvala enough to allow for the extra round ),

[Tarmop]

Its quite important to have a fast guy in a factory team and who would you replace him with atm?

[PLuto]

I am :)

I hope and believe FIA has negotiated with manufacturers about interest in the series before putting it up.

First words from Skoda after approval from FIA didnt sounded so optimistic... For a long time they were not sure what to expect from WRC2 Pro...

[BigWorm]

Whats the difference between rumour and speculation?

negligible

[RS]

Hmm so all day Skoda press conference and they still didn’t tell us about their plans for next year. Seemed more like a celebration of this year.

[AnttiL]

Hmm so all day Skoda press conference and they still didn’t tell us about their plans for next year. Seemed more like a celebration of this year.

Well they announced the driver lineup...

[Mirek]

Hmm so all day Skoda press conference and they still didn’t tell us about their plans for next year. Seemed more like a celebration of this year.

They actually said quite a lot - they confirmed the 2019 drivers - Rovanperä and Kopecký and they confirmed they stay in WRC which IMHO means they take part in WRC2 Pro because as a works team they could not start in normal WRC2 (if I understand it right). Since WRC2 Pro likely hasn't been fixed yet they can't say more. They also confirmed ongoing work on Fabia R5 Evo and the scheduled homologation in June/July. They also presented the look of the Evo car and the new livery.

What else did You expect?

[AnttiL]

What else did You expect?
They should have said again they are not joining the main WRC? :P

[denkimi]

Gosh Neuville is a right tosser, how do people work with such arrogance, at least with Ogier people want to work for/with him and help him to win, Neuville strikes me as the type of character that you would not drive hell for leather and stick your neck out for. He is completely oblivious to the fact that the second best driver in the Hyundai team was effectively 4th in the championship on 144 points ( 16 points ahead on Latvala enough to allow for the extra round ),
i don't think its about the points at the end of the season. it's about taking points away from ogier or tanak, or backing off to give more points to neuville like evans did this year.

[AnttiL]

Latvala could have also taken points from Ogier in Wales and Catalunya, but failed both times. Lappi also lifted Ogier one position by crashing in Finland.

[BigWorm]

i don't think its about the points at the end of the season. it's about taking points away from ogier or tanak, or backing off to give more points to neuville like evans did this year.

Adding the points from two drivers in the same team, that didn't start the same events together (except Portugal), doesn't affect the championship outcome this year for either the Drivers' or Manufacturers'.

[Tarmop]

In Spain, Tänak lost ~1.5 minutes after his puncture, yet he finished ahead of troublefree Mikkelsen. That should sum up Neuville`s frustration. Probably also Hyundai`s.

[RS]

They actually said quite a lot - they confirmed the 2019 drivers - Rovanperä and Kopecký and they confirmed they stay in WRC which IMHO means they take part in WRC2 Pro because as a works team they could not start in normal WRC2 (if I understand it right). Since WRC2 Pro likely hasn't been fixed yet they can't say more. They also confirmed ongoing work on Fabia R5 Evo and the scheduled homologation in June/July. They also presented the look of the Evo car and the new livery.

What else did You expect?

Just a bit more detail, but I didn't realise details for WRC2 Pro had not been confirmed yet (really?? with Monte 8 weeks away)

[itix]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140428/virtual-chicanes-would-work-perfectly--rally-gb

If this becomes reality I will personally start a gofundme to pay french farmers to dump shit in front of the FIA headquarters. Stupidest regulations suggestion I have read for a loooong time!

[bassist]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140428/virtual-chicanes-would-work-perfectly--rally-gb

If this becomes reality I will personally start a gofundme to pay french farmers to dump shit in front of the FIA headquarters. Stupidest regulations suggestion I have read for a loooong time!

Where the hell are we going with this ridiculous idea???? It'll be Traffic Lights next.

[Tauri_J]

Blame the tractor driver

[Franky]

Blame the tractor driver

The talk of virtual chicanes started long time before the tractor in Australia.

[dimviii]

https://twitter.com/AdrienFourmaux/status/1068207693788340224

Live workshops @MSportLtd for two days, I learn to change the Cardan, I study the suspensions and I take care of the shocks that will be mine in a next rally! It's very nice to work behind the scenes, following the next episode!

[T16]

If anyone fancies wading in, Colin Clarke is advocating the use of tractors as chicanes over on Facebook.
Even after all the shit he’s spouted, he can still surprise me.

[Got Mail]

If anyone fancies wading in, Colin Clarke is advocating the use of tractors as chicanes over on Facebook.
Even after all the shit he’s spouted, he can still surprise me.

He's describes them as 'a nightmare'.

Not sure how you see that as an advocation....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Whats the difference between rumour and speculation?

Rumour has a source from which you can decide if it has credibility.

[Mirek]

Rumour has a source from which you can decide if it has credibility.

How many news from the so called respected media posted in this thread have turned to be an absolute nonsense? I would say a loooooooot. You're a bit oversensitive.

[GravelBen]

Rumour has a source from which you can decide if it has credibility.

Not really - rumour has an unknown original source, everyone heard it from somewhere else but can't say where it actually started.

Speculation is your own thoughts rather than someone elses.

[T16]

[QUOTE=Got Mail;1201017]He's describes them as 'a nightmare'.

You need to re-read it pal.

[T16]

Rumour has a source from which you can decide if it has credibility.

So using that definition, are you genuinely suggesting that someone can’t post ‘speculation’ In the news and rumours round and that it has to go in the silly season round?

[Rally Power]

The talk of virtual chicanes started long time before the tractor in Australia.

Yep, but the tractor incident has been widely used by the ‘Virtual Chicanes lobby’ (apparently lead by Wales organizer) to promote this VC nonsense.

Strangely, VC defenders don’t bother to mention that the tractor episode was mostly an outrageous failure from Australia organizer and they also avoid talking about the potential risks VC could play on drivers concentration (how would they react after failing a VC?) or the penalties chaos this device would generate, severely damaging Rallysport authenticity.

[Zeakiwi]

Why not spice things up a bit and have open road rallies like the safari? The FIA said a few years they wanted to go retro and have longer more traditional type events.
Save the rally organisers the expense of organising chicanes if the general public/ cars are still using the roads. Public provided the rocks on the road for McRae at the safari, cattle in the way of Makinen (Corsica?) and Kankkunen (Safari), sheep for Sainz (NZ), logs on the road for Sainz (GB)
https://youtu.be/9vFzadU1E4I

[Tauri_J]

Why not spice things up a bit and have open road rallies like the safari? The FIA said a few years they wanted to go retro and have longer more traditional type events.


When in the hell did you hear that? Its totally opposite what the FIA has been saying last years.

and btw I was joking about blaming the tractor driver lol

[the sniper]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140428/virtual-chicanes-would-work-perfectly--rally-gb

If this becomes reality I will personally start a gofundme to pay french farmers to dump shit in front of the FIA headquarters. Stupidest regulations suggestion I have read for a loooong time!

If you appreciate how lost British rallying is, it came as no surprise to see Iain Campbell dumbfounded on Twitter by the idea that we weren't all onboard with the 'virtual chicanes' idea... No doubt in the UK we'll eventually see stage rallying smothered further by this innovation, ensuring the 70mph average speed is strictly maintained, areas where spectators might accumulate neutralised, and any corner that might be considered 'dangerous' (with an ever broadening definition as the years go on) by ever fearful organisers diluted.

Luckily in the UK the powers that be don't need to worry about what cars cruising through reduced-speed zones looks like from the outside, as there are very few spectators left on most rallies... The organisers/MSA consider that to be a job well done.

[peg306]

Patrik Flodin will do the swedish championship with a Fabia R5 next year, and are also aiming at driving Rally Sweden and Rally Finland.
https://www.emotorsport.se/nyheter.php?in=2&nyhets_id=16463

[Hartusvuori]

if you appreciate how lost british rallying is, it came as no surprise to see iain campbell dumbfounded on twitter by the idea that we weren't all onboard with the 'virtual chicanes' idea... No doubt in the uk we'll eventually see stage rallying smothered further by this innovation, ensuring the 70mph average speed is strictly maintained, areas where spectators might accumulate neutralised, and any corner that might be considered 'dangerous' (with an ever broadening definition as the years go on) by ever fearful organisers diluted.

Luckily in the uk the powers that be don't need to worry about what cars cruising through reduced-speed zones looks like from the outside, as there are very few spectators left on most rallies... The organisers/msa consider that to be a job well done.

it's the end of the woooooooooorld!!!!

[itix]

If you appreciate how lost British rallying is, it came as no surprise to see Iain Campbell dumbfounded on Twitter by the idea that we weren't all onboard with the 'virtual chicanes' idea... No doubt in the UK we'll eventually see stage rallying smothered further by this innovation, ensuring the 70mph average speed is strictly maintained, areas where spectators might accumulate neutralised, and any corner that might be considered 'dangerous' (with an ever broadening definition as the years go on) by ever fearful organisers diluted.

Luckily in the UK the powers that be don't need to worry about what cars cruising through reduced-speed zones looks like from the outside, as there are very few spectators left on most rallies... The organisers/MSA consider that to be a job well done.Not trying to be an arse about it but in my business, the British have always had a thing for safety on paper rather than safety in reality.

I work on a Tanker so safety is of the essence. We were loading on a non disclosed location in western UK and the stacks of papers we had to sign and the amount of checklists we had to do was insane (as it always is in the UK). Then as soon as we started loading, the pipe supplying us burst a hole and they had to stop. We were grounded there for quite a while they fixed the issue and we had plenty of time watching how things looked like at the terminal. It was run down to a point you wouldn't believe. Exposed bare wires and connections in an explosion classed environment, steam leaks everywhere, so much rust on pipes and structures, holes in the walls of some buildings, hand rails and fences missing etc etc.

We also loaded or discharged (don't remember) at another UK terminal when our chief officer was on the quay (why is that pronounced "key" btw?) to inspect the draught marks on the side of the ship when he fell through (!) the quay which broke underneath him and into some kind of drain tank they had built into the dock. Luckily he caught himself with his arms or he would have fallen into the oily tank itself. We wrote a big angry report (British love reports) about it and we got a reply (as well as a safety issue) stating it was forbidden to access the quay. Nothing was done about the obvious safety hazard. "now we have a piece of paper saying it's safe so therefor it is safe".

Many years we came back there and nothing had been done. Eventually when we came back, they had put some yellow plastic chain around the hole, presumably after someone fell in and died. The hole was still there and still not fixed.

This is British safety for you. On paper it looks great, in reality, not so much.

[rallyfiend]

The talk of virtual chicanes started long time before the tractor in Australia.

As soon as the FIA appointed SAS to the role of providing the timing and tracking, with this as a feature of their system, it was an inevitability that it would one day be introduced.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So using that definition, are you genuinely suggesting that someone can’t post ‘speculation’ In the news and rumours round and that it has to go in the silly season round?

Yep , otherwise what's the point in having two threads.

[Andre Oliveira]

Mads Østberg on facebook

I'M SORRY TO INFORM YOU ALL - NO WRC DEAL FOR ME IN 2019
As you all probably know by now Citroën Racing has decided to run only two cars in the next years championship. With no 3rd car, my last option for a WRC contract disappeared. I’m really sorry and disappointed right now. I felt at home with the team and happy with the way we were moving forward as a team. Thank you to all the good people at Citroën Racing for the 2018 season that started with one rally but ended up driving 8. It was great while it lasted. Now its time to buckle up and fight back. I’ve done it before and I can do it again! I’m open for different possibilities, but WRC is of course where my heart lies. Now it’s time to get back to the “drawing board” finding a way to fight my way back. I’m not done being a rally driver. Actually I feel like I’ve never been better. So if you got a car and a team, look me up. Any suggestions? #fightingviking

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Back on the chicanes debate, saw this suggestion:

How about donuts instead of virtual chicanes?
+Neat driving rewarded with quick times.
+Mistakes should only see time loss not damage.
+More entertaining (even if abit artificial).
+The (pointless) lower average speed would be achieved.
https://t.co/Oppfcjk69L

[Tarmop]

:D:D

Yeah, there`s a lot of room to do donuts on a forest stage, in the ruts. Really safe also for spectators, who can get hit with a potato sized or even bigger stones (which is more probable in this case).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Mads Østberg on facebook

I'M SORRY TO INFORM YOU ALL - NO WRC DEAL FOR ME IN 2019
As you all probably know by now Citroën Racing has decided to run only two cars in the next years championship. With no 3rd car, my last option for a WRC contract disappeared. I’m really sorry and disappointed right now. I felt at home with the team and happy with the way we were moving forward as a team. Thank you to all the good people at Citroën Racing for the 2018 season that started with one rally but ended up driving 8. It was great while it lasted. Now its time to buckle up and fight back. I’ve done it before and I can do it again! I’m open for different possibilities, but WRC is of course where my heart lies. Now it’s time to get back to the “drawing board” finding a way to fight my way back. I’m not done being a rally driver. Actually I feel like I’ve never been better. So if you got a car and a team, look me up. Any suggestions? #fightingviking

On Twitter he answered twice that yes he'd consider WRC2.

Sounds like M-Sport isnt an option.

[Tarmop]

Or he makes himself more wanted to pay them less...

[Eli]

On Twitter he answered twice that yes he'd consider WRC2.

Sounds like M-Sport isnt an option.

So does that mean Craig will be in that Fiesta WRC next year?

[T16]

Back on the chicanes debate, saw this suggestion:

How about donuts instead of virtual chicanes?
+Neat driving rewarded with quick times.
+Mistakes should only see time loss not damage.
+More entertaining (even if abit artificial).
+The (pointless) lower average speed would be achieved.
https://t.co/Oppfcjk69L

It actually crossed my mind, but won't work because it will mean widening the road in places, as some of the chicanes are used in specific places to slow before a corner. If there is not enough space it will cost a fortune to build extra width in the road.

And mainly (my opinion only) but doughnuts are ridiculous in any type or motorsport... they've got nothing at all to do with competitive motorsport.

Best bet is a specific length of slow zone, within a longer zone, then the crews won't all have to brake at exactly the same point (something else that will no doubt be contentious). It could mean a 50m section, taken at 25kph, anywhere within a 200m zone. It's up to the crews if they scrub off all the speed at the start, at the end, or in the middle.

[Tarmop]

Wonder, when someone suggests a mobile-speedcam.

[Got Mail]

[QUOTE=Got Mail;1201017]He's describes them as 'a nightmare'.

You need to re-read it pal.

I'm not your 'pal'. I'm a little more selective than that.

CC calls them a nightmare on today's Facebook post.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So does that mean Craig will be in that Fiesta WRC next year?

That's been my prediction for a while but it will always rely on finance and sponsorship.

I've been a Breen fan since about 2010 and he's always been able to get a drive in one way or another - either with family money or some factory deal has been obtained. I'd bet on this to continue.

[T16]

[QUOTE=T16;1201021]

I'm not your 'pal'. I'm a little more selective than that.

CC calls them a nightmare on today's Facebook post.

He doesn’t call tractors a nightmare. He calls moveable chicanes a nightmare.
Like I said, you need to re-read it.
I said I had an issue with him advocating tractors as chicanes. I think it’s stupid. I didn’t say anything about moving tractors, just tractors. You get it now?

This is the Facebook post you are referring to:

I’m with Iain Campbell on this one. There are only really two options here. If chicanes are absolutely necessary, and I’m not sure they are, but if they are, then they have to be solid or virtual. Concrete, tractors, whatever, but moveable chicanes are a nightmare! So if we have to have them, it has to be solid or virtual!

[Augury]

I'm not your 'pal'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfKdNxIOcQ

[Rally Power]

This is British safety for you. On paper it looks great, in reality, not so much.

The sad part is that actually all the debate around chicanes (real or virtual) has little to do with safety.

Having 1 or 2 chicanes on a fast stage can drop a bit its average speed but it doesn’t really minimize the overall risks, as chicanes lowering effect has a very limited range; besides, usually (like in the infamous Australia SS3) chicanes aren’t even placed before the most dangerous stages spots, once it’s obviously impossible to cover all of them.

Natural route risks are a part of Rallysport. Accidents can occur even in apparently safe sectors and drivers always mention that breaking their speed flow on a fast stage by using a chicane can make them loose concentration, leading to mistakes.

We can’t pollute stages with real or virtual chicanes believing that way we’ll make Rally safer. Virtual chicanes mostly seem to be a way for organizers to get cheaper insurance fees, by having lower stages average speeds; that’s not a proper reason to turn the sport into a charade.

[Andre Oliveira]

Sébastien Loeb studying proposals of different manufacters.

https://www.autohebdo.fr/wrc/actualites/pas-de-citroen-pour-loeb-qui-etudie-les-propositions-des-differents-constructeurs-199562.html

[RAS007]

The sad part is that actually all the debate around chicanes (real or virtual) has little to do with safety.

Having 1 or 2 chicanes on a fast stage can drop a bit its average speed but it doesn’t really minimize the overall risks, as chicanes lowering effect has a very limited range; besides, usually (like in the infamous Australia SS3) chicanes aren’t even placed before the most dangerous stages spots, once it’s obviously impossible to cover all of them.

Natural route risks are a part of Rallysport. Accidents can occur even in apparently safe sectors and drivers always mention that breaking their speed flow on a fast stage by using a chicane can make them loose concentration, leading to mistakes.

We can’t pollute stages with real or virtual chicanes believing that way we’ll make Rally safer. Virtual chicanes mostly seem to be a way for organizers to get cheaper insurance fees, by having lower stages average speeds; that’s not a proper reason to turn the sport into a charade.

Give this man a cigar.

[Hartusvuori]

Natural route risks are a part of Rallysport. Accidents can occur even in apparently safe sectors and drivers always mention that breaking their speed flow on a fast stage by using a chicane can make them loose concentration, leading to mistakes.

I have opposite opinion about chicanes breaking the flow on fast sections. Chicane doesn't only lower the speed at where it is, but it also breaks the flow and thus makes the following section a tad slower. In my opinion it should make drivers more concentrated, not vice versa. I have one real life example from Rally Finland: SS Äänekoski, one of the fastest in the event. In 2016 we were spectating a tightening left after a long, fast and flowing section. We saw one spectacular crash. The next year we returned to the corner. A chicaine had been added 800 meters before the difficult corner, enough distance to get back to the top speed - nothing happened that year.

Has it been written anywhere that the arrival of virtual chicanes would actually increase the number of chicanes or is that just some made up dystopia?

[able1]

What's next ? Gender diversity issue in wrc ? No transgenders no pregnant male drivers, no black drivers. All the liberals in FIA should be sacked.
Safety of drivers and spectators is a priority but let's not go too far. Hay bales work .. and they are easy to place (but should have some standard rules how far from eachother etc.) Drivers do respect them and those who don't get penalties.

[Hartusvuori]

Hay bales work .. and they are easy to place (but should have some standard rules how far from eachother etc.) Drivers do respect them and those who don't get penalties.

Just thinking out aloud...

Haybales chicane:
- get (purchase) haybales, x number per needed chicane, xx(x) number per event
- mark chicanes on the route for recce
- get haybales transported to the location, hire a tractor or a truck - this all just before the event
- get personnel to marshal the haybales that they don't form danger if being hit and misplaced
- face possible problems if haybales get hit and moved while stage is live
- get rid of the haybales after the event, hire a tractor or a truck, agree how they'll be disposed

Virtual chicane:
- purchase equipment for virtual chicane and use equipment needed anyway
- mark chicanes on the route for recce, same marking goes for the event as well
- get a person to the chicane (not necessary)
- after the event, use the same equipment in the next event

Rallies don't get organized by themselves.

[Allez Andruet]

All the liberals in FIA should be sacked.
I've heard quite a few definitions for "liberal", but never imagined that it had something to do with virtual chicanes. Little did I know.

[Rally Power]

Has it been written anywhere that the arrival of virtual chicanes would actually increase the number of chicanes or is that just some made up dystopia?

Don’t be naif. Allowing virtual chicanes is opening a Pandora ’s Box. Like it’s been said, virtual chicanes would be easier to place than the current ones and would also allow organizers to save money on insurance fees or road repairs; that’s quite an incentive for a larger use. Besides, under the politically correct (false) pretext of improving safety, how would anyone dare to limit them?

[AnttiL]

I still think the best solution is not to have any chicanes at all, a route which doesn’t require them.

[T16]

I still think the best solution is not to have any chicanes at all, a route which doesn’t require them.

Wouldn’t that mean potentially losing out on some of the best stages?... at least I know I’m
asking the right man!

[AnttiL]

Wouldn’t that mean potentially losing out on some of the best stages?... at least I know I’m
asking the right man!

Well, you know, in Finland there's no more Ouninpohja...but still many awesome stages, and zero chicanes, although it's the fastest rally. Even Turkey had a chicane!

[Hartusvuori]

Don’t be naif. Allowing virtual chicanes is opening a Pandora ’s Box. Like it’s been said, virtual chicanes would be easier to place than the current ones and would also allow organizers to save money on insurance fees or road repairs; that’s quite an incentive for a larger use. Besides, under the politically correct (false) pretext of improving safety, how would anyone dare to limit them?

How does virtual chicane save on insurance fees? Or road repairs for the matter - any chicane mean detoriation to the road. Anti-cut blocks are invented for preventing cutting.

[Rally Power]

How does virtual chicane save on insurance fees? Or road repairs for the matter - any chicane mean detoriation to the road. Anti-cut blocks are invented for preventing cutting.

In some countries there’s an average speed stage limit for insurance purposes (75mph in GB case). Mentioning road rebuild savings may sound silly, but Wales organizer said it on Autosport piece: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140428/virtual-chicanes-would-work-perfectly--rally-gb

Btw, take a look on Wales onboards: in all the forest stages of the first and second legs there was only one chicane in Brenig (SS3/8) and another one in Sweet Lamb (SS11/16). In both cases, the spots didn’t seem particulary ‘dangerous’. Surprisinsingly, on Great Orme (SS21/23) tarmac road section one can count 3 chicanes in less than 6 kms!

Let’s face it: if Finland organizers can get alternative roads to avoid extreme speeds, for sure it won’t be that hard for Wales or any other organizer to do the same.

[AnttiL]

Btw, take a look on Wales onboards: in all the forest stages of the first and second legs there was only one chicane in Brenig (SS3/8) and another one in Sweet Lamb (SS11/16). In both cases, the spots didn’t seem particulary ‘dangerous’.

Sweet Lamb chicane is just before the arena with a lot of spectators. Brenig was a long straight into a 90 junction onto tarmac with another road behind the junction (open for traffic)?

[SubaruNorway]

Let’s face it: if Finland organizers can get alternative roads to avoid extreme speeds, for sure it won’t be that hard for Wales or any other organizer to do the same.

In the end those roads didn't make it safer since they were still very fast with hidden rocks and tree stumps in the grass, trees also even closer. Also poor viewing for spectators making them stay closer to the road.

[Rally Power]

Sweet Lamb chicane is just before the arena with a lot of spectators. Brenig was a long straight into a 90 junction onto tarmac with another road behind the junction (open for traffic)?

Yep; actually Brenig straight doesn’t look very long.


In the end those roads didn't make it safer since they were still very fast with hidden rocks and tree stumps in the grass, trees also even closer. Also poor viewing for spectators making them stay closer to the road.

I remember reading that some drivers actually liked Finland’s new roads and prefered them than using chicanes like in 2017.

Anyway, probably there will never be a perfect solution to avoid extreme speeds in rally, but it’s difficult to imagine a worst one than virtual chicanes.

[cali]

I still think the best solution is not to have any chicanes at all, a route which doesn’t require them.I've said the same before. No real need for chicanes and we would lose one more pseudo problem. WRC is speedtest for world's finest drivers. Just lose it.

[Steve Boyd]

In some countries there’s an average speed stage limit for insurance purposes (75mph in GB case)75 mph limit in GB is for tarmac stages only. The limit for gravel stages is 70 mph.

I don't like chicanes but for the long term future of the sport I believe we need to control the average speeds on the stages.
If we have faster roads without chicanes the cars will become faster. Team A will use a joker to homologate a higher final drive. They will be faster on faster stages. Team B will see this and homologate a higher final drive. This battle will continue until the slower accelleration out of the slow corners compensates for the higher top speed. If there are more fast straights without chicanes then the top speed increase will be more.
When the FIA see the top speed of the cars is now maybe 10% faster they will say more safety protection is needed for the crews. They may increase the weight to allow the extra protection to be fitted so we could have cars that are 5% heavier & 10% faster top speed. This equals 26% more kinetic energy when a car goes off the road so the places where spectators can go will be reduced and they will need to be kept further from the track except in the slow parts. If spectators are forced to watch these cars in the slow parts it may reduce the people who go to watch because heavier cars with higher final drive ratios will not accellerate like the current cars. People will want more power to get the specatcle back making the cars faster and so the cycle will repeat.
Virtual chicanes are simple to impelment in WRC with current technology and using them to break up long straights will keep the top speed of the cars down so the accelleration will still be good making the cars good to watch in the interesting places. Who watches in the middle of a long straight anyway?

[atsiotras79]

I have one question. How this whole chicane story will imply in a rally like Monte Carlo? I am sorry for the strong language but there a fatal accident can happen with 5km/h... is really average speed the problem? So should we stop Monte due to safety? Could this be the kind of question that rises next? And Turkey has big rocks... and Finland has big jumps... and Germany has these big hinkelthings...and let’s keep only rallycross... what a load of shit...

[AnttiL]

I have one question. How this whole chicane story will imply in a rally like Monte Carlo? I am sorry for the strong language but there a fatal accident can happen with 5km/h... is really average speed the problem? So should we stop Monte due to safety? Could this be the kind of question that rises next? And Turkey has big rocks... and Finland has big jumps... and Germany has these big hinkelthings...and let’s keep only rallycross... what a load of shit...

Have you ever seen a chicane in Monte?

[the sniper]

If there's one place that you should never have to worry about chicanes or average speeds traps, it's Monte. They're a law unto themselves, good for them! :D

Something I've been thinking though, you've got to imagine the average speed traps will have to feature in the 2020 Safari (if it happens), as the average stage speeds there unhindered really could be quite unpalatable to some, and chicanes won't work...

[AnttiL]

In the end those roads didn't make it safer since they were still very fast with hidden rocks and tree stumps in the grass, trees also even closer. Also poor viewing for spectators making them stay closer to the road.

The biggest accident of the rally happened near the end of Oittila on a medium wide road that was super fast, with a Subaru hitting a tree. The WRC driver crashes happened also on similar roads (Lappi in Laukaa, Neuville in Äänekoski) although Mikkelsen's crash in Ässämäki was on a slower section, but the trees weren't close. I don't recall any crashes on the smallest and slowest roads, but then again none on the fastest and widest ones either (except stuff like Katsuta in Urria or Ogier in Jukojärvi last year, both with a some sort of issue with the car).

EDIT: Forgot Veiby's crashes in 2017 and 2018, on the same piece of road, also a medium wide but fast road.

And speaking of spectators, I've seen onboard footage of specators standing on the road even on stages like Pihlajakoski which isn't really a narrow path in the woods, or slow. Some people just will always want to see more than they're allowed.

The problem with roads is that they're not consistent. You might have a couple of kilometres of perfect road but to use that, you need to go through a hyper fast or a very narrow section to get a proper stage, and it's especially tricky with 20+ km stages. Ouninpohja is a perfect example of this.


I remember reading that some drivers actually liked Finland’s new roads and prefered them than using chicanes like in 2017.
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/138041/fia-and-wrc-to-discuss-measuring-stage-safety

Basically they said that small roads are better than chicanes, but they feel the fast wide roads are safer to drive. I think it's true for the current WRC cars with a lot of power and aero and lots of side impact padding, but once we go to the lower classes, the safety drops considerably on the fast sections where the top speeds can be as high as on WRC cars.

[stefanvv]

Have you ever seen a chicane in Monte?

Plenty virtual chicanes with black ice

[Mirek]

Have you ever seen a chicane in Monte?

No, but a stage with 136 km/h average speed exactly ten years a go (Saint Bonnet - Saint Bonnet 2008) and nobody seemed to be concerned because the stage was in the rally at least till 2011 (maybe later as well).

Actually this is a stage where many big crashes happened (in 2011 I saw several of them personally and some of them were completely insane).

[AnttiL]

No, but a stage with 136 km/h average speed exactly ten years a go (Saint Bonnet - Saint Bonnet 2008) and nobody seemed to be concerned because the stage was in the rally at least till 2011 (maybe later as well).

Actually this is a stage where many big crashes happened (in 2011 I saw several of them personally and some of them were completely insane).

Just underlining the fact that Monte Carlo can do whatever they want and FIA will just shut their ears.

[TypeR]

if the point is only to see lower number of avg speed and not making any difference about safety then let's make it even better, f1 style stop&go format. driver must stop on the stage for 10 secs, wherever he thinks it's the best place for them(tactics).

[Mirek]

Just underlining the fact that Monte Carlo can do whatever they want and FIA will just shut their ears.

Actually the reason for these crashes wasn't that it was a high speed stage. Nearly all of them happened on the same bump (tree root under asphalt) on a fast downhill section.

[AnttiL]

No, but a stage with 136 km/h average speed exactly ten years a go (Saint Bonnet - Saint Bonnet 2008) and nobody seemed to be concerned because the stage was in the rally at least till 2011 (maybe later as well).

Actually this is a stage where many big crashes happened (in 2011 I saw several of them personally and some of them were completely insane).

https://www.ewrc-results.com/eventstats/149-rallye-automobile-de-monte-carlo-2008/
https://www.ewrc-results.com/eventstats/415-rallye-automobile-de-monte-carlo-2009/
https://www.ewrc-results.com/eventstats/561-rallye-automobile-de-monte-carlo-2010/
https://www.ewrc-results.com/eventstats/2217-rallye-automobile-de-monte-carlo-2011/
https://www.ewrc-results.com/eventstats/3363-rallye-automobile-de-monte-carlo-2012/
https://www.ewrc-results.com/eventstats/5887-rallye-automobile-de-monte-carlo-2013/

Seems that in 2008 the average speed was 122 km/h, in 2009 106 km/h, in 2010 97 km/h, in 2011 119 km/h, in 2012 121 km/h and in 2013 87 km/h. So number-wise there's nothing to fix. Assuming the fastest runs were on dry tarmac, I don't consider that dangerous. But yeah, seems like it has been the fastest stage of the rally many years.

[Rally Power]

if the point is only to see lower number of avg speed and not making any difference about safety then let's make it even better, f1 style stop&go format. driver must stop on the stage (...)

That’s basically how the ridiculous virtual chicanes work. Their major aim is to provide a more practical way of lowering stages average speed, but it’s becoming more and more obvious that having lower stages average speed doesn’t necessarily mean having safer stages.

[Mirek]

https://www.ewrc-results.com/eventstats/149-rallye-automobile-de-monte-carlo-2008/
https://www.ewrc-results.com/eventstats/415-rallye-automobile-de-monte-carlo-2009/
https://www.ewrc-results.com/eventstats/561-rallye-automobile-de-monte-carlo-2010/
https://www.ewrc-results.com/eventstats/2217-rallye-automobile-de-monte-carlo-2011/
https://www.ewrc-results.com/eventstats/3363-rallye-automobile-de-monte-carlo-2012/
https://www.ewrc-results.com/eventstats/5887-rallye-automobile-de-monte-carlo-2013/

Seems that in 2008 the average speed was 122 km/h, in 2009 106 km/h, in 2010 97 km/h, in 2011 119 km/h, in 2012 121 km/h and in 2013 87 km/h. So number-wise there's nothing to fix. Assuming the fastest runs were on dry tarmac, I don't consider that dangerous. But yeah, seems like it has been the fastest stage of the rally many years.

You are right. I remembered that wrong. 2008 and 2011 was indeed dry, 2009 and 2010 was full snow.

Off topic but maybe interesting for You ;)
Here You can find our crash report from 2011 from this stage. All those crashes on the photos and video happened on one same place except one which was few corners farther. http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php?cl=11626

[Rally Power]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/138041/fia-and-wrc-to-discuss-measuring-stage-safety
Basically they said that small roads are better than chicanes, but they feel the fast wide roads are safer to drive

Ogier was a bit more explicit on the chicanes: “Anything artificial on the stage is shit for me”. He backed the new roads: “A lot of the new sections were nice and challenging but when you go wider and wider it’s just super quick and it makes a high level of risks and danger”.

[AnttiL]

Ogier was a bit more explicit on the chicanes: “Anything artificial on the stage is shit for me”. He backed the new stages: “A lot of the new sections were nice and challenging but when you go wider and wider it’s just super quick and it makes a high level of risks and danger”.

I'm not 100% sure what he means with "wider and wider". The wider roads or just cutting and "widening" a narrow road and thus making it super quick and dangerous?

[Rally Power]

I'm not 100% sure what he means with "wider and wider". The wider roads or just cutting and "widening" a narrow road and thus making it super quick and dangerous?

From the full quote it makes sense to believe he was comparing the new narrow stages with the previous wider ones.

[AnttiL]

From the full quote it makes sense to believe he was comparing the new narrow stages with the previous wider ones.

It’s not really like that, the stages have always been a mix of wide and narrow, fast and slow.

[able1]

French magazine l'equipe says Loeb to join hyundai.

[rallye-vid]

Stupid forum software on smartphones....

I hope my post is visible now: if it's true, they will drop Paddon as Seb Marshall is gone today to Toyota.

So, Sordo 10 rounds, rest Loeb?

[able1]

Stupid forum software on smartphones....

I hope my post is visible now: if it's true, they will drop Paddon as Seb Marshall is gone today to Toyota.

So, Sordo 10 rounds, rest Loeb?

or gets even less seat time than s18 , depends on how they share events

[Rally Power]

French magazine l'equipe says Loeb to join hyundai.

If it’s true, Clark is silly season wild guessing winner!



It’s not really like that, the stages have always been a mix of wide and narrow, fast and slow.

Ogier actually used the word sections and not stages, like I’ve wrote. Anyway, in the full article it’s clearly said he backed the new roads, even if that specific quote sounds a bit confusing.

[Andre Oliveira]

If Loeb joins Hyundai is the "death" of Neuville's Hyundai carreer.

[er88]

If Loeb joins Hyundai is the "death" of Neuville's Hyundai carreer.Mikkelsen more likely. Loeb coming in and dominating him would compound his misery next year. Neuville has security and the whole team behind him.

[AnttiL]

Ogier actually used the word sections and not stages, like I’ve wrote. Anyway, in the full article it’s clearly said he backed the new roads, even if that specific quote sounds a bit confusing.
Yeah, it's clear that the beginning of Ogier's statement means he prefers small roads to chicanes, but the last part ("wider and wider") is still puzzling.

[Allez Andruet]

If Loeb joins Hyundai is the "death" of Neuville's Hyundai carreer.

Really? Ex-champ, who's turning 45 quite soon, would come and destroy the career of 4-time championship runner-up who has just made a new 3-year deal with the team? Wouldn't that sound a bit odd?

[sollitt]

Really? Ex-champ, who's turning 45 quite soon, would come and destroy the career of 4-time championship runner-up who has just made a new 3-year deal with the team? Wouldn't that sound a bit odd?Yes it would. More fake news.

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/MadsOstberg/status/1070053461167878146

Østberg planning his 2019 season. Seems his calendar has has Sweden, Otago, Argentina, Chile, Liepaja, Sardegna, Estonia, Finland, Barum, Turkey, Wales and Catalunya highlighted.

[able1]

If Loeb joins Hyundai is the "death" of Neuville's Hyundai carreer.

Loeb joining Hyundai (if rumors are true L'equipe is not very trustworthy) should have no impact on Neuville , because it is only for selected events.

[able1]

https://twitter.com/MadsOstberg/status/1070053461167878146

Østberg planning his 2019 season. Seems his calendar has has Sweden, Otago, Argentina, Chile, Liepaja, Sardegna, Estonia, Finland, Barum, Turkey, Wales and Catalunya highlighted.

I wonder what car will he be using. R5 maybe?

[dodge33cymru]

https://twitter.com/MadsOstberg/status/1070053461167878146

Østberg planning his 2019 season. Seems his calendar has has Sweden, Otago, Argentina, Chile, Liepaja, Sardegna, Estonia, Finland, Barum, Turkey, Wales and Catalunya highlighted.

Hopefully he's going to go have some fun bashing Skodas in an R5.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I wonder what car will he be using. R5 maybe?

Has to be really, the WRC cars are just too costly for a privateer.

[GravelBen]

Well I expect Otago will be in a Mk2 Escort again anyway!

[pantealex]

Hopefully he's going to go have some fun bashing Skodas in an R5.

With which car ?

I don´t think Polo is available for him.

[dodge33cymru]

With which car ?

I don´t think Polo is available for him.

I'd thought Adapta had a Ford or two, but just looked around and it seems they've sold the two they were running previously. Still, I'm sure there are plenty of Fords and Skodas on the market, and a new Fiesta due for Finland...

[AnttiL]

I'd thought Adapta had a Ford or two, but just looked around and it seems they've sold the two they were running previously. Still, I'm sure there are plenty of Fords and Skodas on the market, and a new Fiesta due for Finland...

Mads did one event in 2017 in the R5 Fiesta and had to retire due to technical problems and stated that it was such an old model that it couldn't be updated anymore to the latest specs.

[Tarmop]

Umh, there are more than enough for rent, probably can get his hands on a VW on some events also...
Didn`t he have to buy a C3 R5?

[AnttiL]

Umh, there are more than enough for rent, probably can get his hands on a VW on some events also...
Didn`t he have to buy a C3 R5?

My guess is he does most events with a C3 R5 and buys in a WRC drives in a few events which are good for him, such as Sweden and Finland.

[liposh]

Loeb joining Hyundai (if rumors are true L'equipe is not very trustworthy) should have no impact on Neuville , because it is only for selected events.

Yes, but Hyundai bosses would see it is even possible to drive faster than Neuville does at the moment and without all those complaints. ...Which would be beginning of end of Neuville´s career. That is what Andre meant.

[Allez Andruet]

Yes, but Hyundai bosses would see it is even possible to drive faster than Neuville does at the moment and without all those complaints. ...Which would be beginning of end of Neuville´s career. That is what Andre meant.

I'm not the biggest fan of Neuville, but come on... The guy has just made a new 3-year deal and now suddenly the end of his career is in sight if Loeb joins the team for a few events. I somehow fail to understand the logic.

[Rally Power]

Maybe some Italian friend can confirm: according to https://www.diariomotor.com/competicion/noticia/m-sport-negociar-con-sebastien-loeb/, AutoSprint talked with Mr. Wilson and MSport plan for next year is to have only 2 WRC cars, one for Suninen, the other for Evans; apparently, for now there’s no budget to run a 3rd car, even partially, for Loeb or any other driver. It’s also said Greensmith will be in WRC2 Pro.

[AnttiL]

MSport plan for next year is to have only 2 WRC cars, one for Suninen, the other for Evans

I've heard similar rumors.

[AL14]

Maybe some Italian friend can confirm: according to https://www.diariomotor.com/competicion/noticia/m-sport-negociar-con-sebastien-loeb/, AutoSprint talked with Mr. Wilson and MSport plan for next year is to have only 2 WRC cars, one for Suninen, the other for Evans; apparently, for now there’s no budget to run a 3rd car, even partially, for Loeb or any other driver. It’s also said Greensmith will be in WRC2 Pro.

You ask for italian friend because of the language of the article? Because that's spanish actually.

[EstWRC]

LOL :D

translate it anyway :p

[mknight]

I'm not the biggest fan of Neuville, but come on... The guy has just made a new 3-year deal and now suddenly the end of his career is in sight if Loeb joins the team for a few events. I somehow fail to understand the logic.

Exactly, Loeb really does not want full season and will not drive for many years in either case. To win driver titles you need driver that drives whole season. Neuville is vey fast relative to others both in Hyundais and in other cars. 2nd fastest in fact.

Who else is there to replace Neuville that is faster than him? New guys like Hutunen or Rovanpera surely wont start with replacing Neuville on rallies.

[mknight]

I actually think both Neuville and Mikkelsen would like to have Loeb in the team. Both said recently in multiple interviews how Hyundai is very reluctant to make changes to the car, Loeb could add additional feedback/pressure, like he did in Citroen.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Malcolm Wilson: translated
"At this time we are still in the WRC but with only two cars, one for Teemu Suninen and the other for Elfyn Evans. For now we do not have the budget to compete with a third car, so we have not talked to Sébastien Loeb, which we would have liked to have with us next season in five or six races in the Fiesta WRC. We are still trying to organize the team for next year, we also talk to Craig Breen, but at this moment the situation is this."

[Fast Eddie WRC]

More MW:
"During this week the JWRC 2019 and the new Fiesta R2 will be presented in Poland, while for the Fiesta R5 the debut of the new car will be the one scheduled in July. We will continue to have an official Fiesta R5 registered in WRC2 Pro reserved for manufacturers, piloted by the British Gus Greensmith."

[stefanvv]

You ask for italian friend because of the language of the article? Because that's spanish actually.

I think he means AutoSprint.

[Rally Power]

You ask for italian friend because of the language of the article? Because that's spanish actually.

Nope (any Portuguese can easily read spanish). I asked because AutoSprint was quoted.

[dimviii]

http://planetemarcus.com/timo-rautiainen-nomme-vice-president-fia-wrc/

[Andre Oliveira]

Competitors in the newly-created FIA WRC 2 Pro Championship are permitted to enter two R5 cars per team and must participate in a minimum of seven rounds with one car – including one event outside Europe. For the Drivers’ and Co-drivers’ Championships, the eight best scores will count towards the titles, while the highest placed car(s) in each team will score points in the FIA WRC 2 Pro Championship for Manufacturers. Competitors will have P2P status, be permitted one day of testing per event per driver, and will start in Championship order after the P1 drivers on the first day of competition. On days two and three, crews will start after the P1 group, in classification order.

The FIA WRC 2 Championship, now solely for drivers and co-drivers, will have no minimum number of events, although the first six scores from seven entered rounds will count towards the titles. Competitors will be permitted one day of pre-event testing and will start in Championship order after the P2P group, and on days two and three after the P2P group in classification order. No WRC 2 registration fee will be requested from competitors who hold a licence from the ASN of the organising country for the first event in which they participate.

An additional 10 minutes will be added to the current 30-minute midday service to give organisers the opportunity to implement promotional activities with any of the drivers.

For the purposes of cost saving, Rally Argentina and Rally Chile, and Rally Portugal and Rally Italy will be paired to enable the manufacturer teams to participate with the same chassis, engines and spare parts.

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-announces-world-motor-sport-council-decisions-12

[deephouse]

So that means if Loeb comes to Hyundai, M-Sport having two drivers already, no third car available for them, Paddon is out of WRC squad. At least he could fight against Skodas in WRC2 Pro... Still maybe enter NZ Championship or few ocassional events for promotional purposes.

[AnttiL]

the highest placed car(s) in each team will score points in the FIA WRC 2 Pro Championship for Manufacturers.

For the purposes of cost saving, Rally Argentina and Rally Chile, and Rally Portugal and Rally Italy will be paired to enable the manufacturer teams to participate with the same chassis, engines and spare parts.


What do these two parts mean?

[dodge33cymru]

Really hope to see WRC2 Pro take off, would be great to have a second true pro level now ERC has effectively lost it and a great marketplace for teams to advertise their R5 cars for sale.

I also like the part about competitors from the same country not needing to pay to enter WRC2. Not sure if that's new, but I like the rule.

[RS]

Hopefully he's going to go have some fun bashing Skodas in an R5.

I think Mads would be a nice adition to WRC2 Pro but i don't think he can beat Rovanpera on gravel or Kopecky on tarmac with an R5 car.

[AL14]

Nope (any Portuguese can easily read spanish). I asked because AutoSprint was quoted.

Oh that's why! Yes, since you are portuguese it sounded weird to me. :) I just didn't get the AutoSprint reference instead.

[dupanton]

According to Belgian "Speed Magazine", they have a source that confirmed them the deal between Loeb and Hyundai is done.

http://www.speed-magazine.be/loeb-chez-hyundai-cest/

Normally it's quite a reliable source...

[Tarmop]

If i understand Google translate right, it`s the same philosophing that Clark did, not actually saying it is done?

[dupanton]

If i understand Google translate right, it`s the same philosophing that Clark did, not actually saying it is done?

Not exactly. They say they got the news it is signed.

Then they ask themselves if that could be possible and explain the events that might cause this decision.

[denkimi]

If loeb goes to Hyundai, which i won't believe until its official, that would mean that citroen has completely screwed up something.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I think Mads would be a nice adition to WRC2 Pro but i don't think he can beat Rovanpera on gravel or Kopecky on tarmac with an R5 car.

Mads driving for who ? Skoda team is already settled.

[Simmi]

With Hyundai big in TCR it could also give Loeb some options to remain in circuit racing. He could do Nurburgring 24 even. Quite an interesting prospect. Not sure I believe it but they seem far more committed to motorsport than PSA.

[AnttiL]

Mads driving for who ? Skoda team is already settled.

My guess is Citroen

[er88]

My guess is CitroenWould be good for Citroen and boost their R5 project. He's a much better driver than Lefebrve anyway...

[mousti]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140552/hyundai-denies-deal-with-loeb-done

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140552/hyundai-denies-deal-with-loeb-done

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

Well, there's straight from the horse's mouth. No Loeb to Hyundai as of now.

[PLuto]

Really hope to see WRC2 Pro take off, would be great to have a second true pro level now ERC has effectively lost it and a great marketplace for teams to advertise their R5 cars for sale.

I also like the part about competitors from the same country not needing to pay to enter WRC2. Not sure if that's new, but I like the rule.

I dont agree with almost all your words ;)

[deephouse]

Confusing part when was said that they will reveal who will drive Sweden instead of Sordo... If Paddon is in pole position then why the hell waiting and not confirming lienup already... That smells a lot.

[AnttiL]

Confusing part when was said that they will reveal who will drive Sweden instead of Sordo... If Paddon is in pole position then why the hell waiting and not confirming lienup already... That smells a lot.

Negotiations still ongoing. Paddon might say he wants more rallies or won't help Hyundai in the rallies where Sordo won't drive.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Nandan moaning about speculation when its only happened due to their delay in deciding. If its the same team as 2018 just get on with announcing it !!

[deephouse]

Negotiations still ongoing. Paddon might say he wants more rallies or won't help Hyundai in the rallies where Sordo won't drive.

I don't think he is in position of ''wanting more'' when Loeb is in the game and M-Sport doors are almost closed.

[AnttiL]

I don't think he is in position of ''wanting more'' when Loeb is in the game and M-Sport doors are almost closed.

Hyundai might say ”four rallies or nothing” and Paddon ”I want more or nothing”. Loeb might ask for too much salary or there might be an issue of who does certain rallies - throwing in Loeb would mean Sordo or Mikkelsen is out of tarmac rallies and either Sordo or Loeb would have to do Finland and Sweden, which they don’t want. Also, Mikkelsen might be guaranteed a full season, meaning it would be fourth car for Loeb on tarmac rallies.

[rallyfiend]

Hyundai might say ”four rallies or nothing” and Paddon ”I want more or nothing”. Loeb might ask for too much salary or there might be an issue of who does certain rallies - throwing in Loeb would mean Sordo or Mikkelsen is out of tarmac rallies and either Sordo or Loeb would have to do Finland and Sweden, which they don’t want. Also, Mikkelsen might be guaranteed a full season, meaning it would be fourth car for Loeb on tarmac rallies.

What's Mikkelsen going to do if they tell him he can't have the full season? Leave? And go where?

His career is on a knife-edge as it is....

[Rally Power]

Clark analisys on Loeb/Hyundai deal is spot on: https://www.facebook.com/voiceofrally/posts/1072305189598810?__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARDRaCb-UrZog2nf3tnTzRab-nMyTk-kHNp_mySAzxxZkkUuTf3HOCIv84eESjEc322PoTw0U21F3O1Mh wBNIf8Ao6IrROyyQRB6f_CFk14RQ50EvhzlEboKnI-ozBLIl0uiGsxm2uysAQpZKnR__IBajMwOgDTRevxUmfsZk_AT1 9Ui6eo_4bNRVJobeeWOX6xB_b7RqEAjFSIrFMDGsM19tdHkbeB R214cQNWYSTRdzWMRQIfnGpENEHcV5hjDBMqcUyfMyjdW7anZt rGH1VHARuGf-bnA4hl95NqUn_mTTsYoacSKywdeNAeN_F6i7SLCoxAx3fZSQ6K 729u-LrqlLg&__tn__=K-R

[N.O.T]

whoever devotes more than 5 minutes on reading what clark thinks about the sport should consider castration as a viable life choice...

the guy wishes the sport to turn into F1 so he can be relevant...

pathetic.

[Rally Power]

whoever devotes more than 5 minutes on reading what clark thinks about the sport should consider castration as a viable life choice...

In that case, reading him endlessly shouldn’t be a problem for you.

Seriously: he’s mostly unbearable on the KT monologues, but now and then he actually writes some good stuff, like this time. Go on, take the 5m.

[jbmarcus21]

Rallye #WRC Tour de Corse start to Porto-Vecchio for 2019 edition include 14 stages (347.51kms) : full details include road program ► http://bit.ly/2QkQESr

[Duvel]

Loeb coming in at Hyundai could mean Paddon to wrc2pro maybe?

In that case, wrc2pro could become a very nice support class, imagne Skoda whit Kopecky and Kalle, Hyundai whit Paddon and Huttunen, and at Citroen Mads Ostberg and Lefevre,.. Dont know M-sport plans, but i could see Camilli defending there colors, along whit Greensmith.

Teemu Sunninen and Evans in Wrc for partial program is my guess.

Hyundai to rotate Andreas, Dani and Seb.

Im affraid Breen could be left whitout a drive for next season.

[Allez Andruet]

Teemu Sunninen and Evans in Wrc for partial program is my guess.
Why would that Sunninen guy and Evans have a partial program in WRC?

[spiderem]

Loeb coming in at Hyundai could mean Paddon to wrc2pro maybe?

In that case, wrc2pro could become a very nice support class, imagne Skoda whit Kopecky and Kalle, Hyundai whit Paddon and Huttunen, and at Citroen Mads Ostberg and Lefevre,.. Dont know M-sport plans, but i could see Camilli defending there colors, along whit Greensmith.

Teemu Sunninen and Evans in Wrc for partial program is my guess.

Hyundai to rotate Andreas, Dani and Seb.

Im affraid Breen could be left whitout a drive for next season.

Why not breen with Ostberg and Lefevre? Or even ditch lefevre for that matter

[mknight]

Clark analisys on Loeb/Hyundai deal is spot on: https://www.facebook.com/voiceofrally/posts/1072305189598810?__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARDRaCb-UrZog2nf3tnTzRab-nMyTk-kHNp_mySAzxxZkkUuTf3HOCIv84eESjEc322PoTw0U21F3O1Mh wBNIf8Ao6IrROyyQRB6f_CFk14RQ50EvhzlEboKnI-ozBLIl0uiGsxm2uysAQpZKnR__IBajMwOgDTRevxUmfsZk_AT1 9Ui6eo_4bNRVJobeeWOX6xB_b7RqEAjFSIrFMDGsM19tdHkbeB R214cQNWYSTRdzWMRQIfnGpENEHcV5hjDBMqcUyfMyjdW7anZt rGH1VHARuGf-bnA4hl95NqUn_mTTsYoacSKywdeNAeN_F6i7SLCoxAx3fZSQ6K 729u-LrqlLg&__tn__=K-R


I can't really agree with him on the reason tbh. Clark says main goal for Loeb would be to "support" Neuville. I really don't think Loeb would want to drive some rallies just to drop behind to clear the road (ref. Evans and Suninen in Finland, Australia etc..), to be forbidden to drive fast on power stages or to have to do service on his car himself when mechanics are busy with Neuvilles car.

For me the main reason Hyundai would want Loeb is to help with development and setup on the car as they seem to struggle quite often with setup even against Ford and Citroen and vs Toyota seem to lack speed in general.

EDIT: I agree with him that Hyundai has to be under real pressure, after all they were leading both champs. mid-season and didn't won any, same last year. Car is one thing, drivers another but also the rest of the team.... For example in Turkey Neuville's retirement from first place was due to a mechanic not mounting the damper correctly and 3 stages later (after another service) Mikkelsen dropped from 1st to 5th after he left service with some bolts missing.


-------------
Obviously you can agree on CCs opinions/speculations or not. But to criticize him for having an option and sharing it when he is a journalist is extremely retarded. To attract manufacturers/sponsors you need popularity, (almost) any kind of discussion or media talk is a plus. CC is atm the only worldwide known rally journalist that actually has an opinion and gets out with it. We should want more of those, not less.(Evans is 99% press release copy and Holmes used to be ok some time ago but lately is like Evans).

[Duvel]

I can't really agree with him on the reason tbh. Clark says main goal for Loeb would be to "support" Neuville. I really don't think Loeb would want to drive some rallies just to drop behind to clear the road (ref. Evans and Suninen in Finland, Australia etc..), to be forbidden to drive fast on power stages or to have to do service on his car himself when mechanics are busy with Neuvilles car.

For me the main reason Hyundai would want Loeb is to help with development and setup on the car as they seem to struggle quite often with setup even against Ford and Citroen and vs Toyota seem to lack speed in general.

EDIT: I agree with him that Hyundai has to be under real pressure, after all they were leading both champs. mid-season and didn't won any, same last year. Car is one thing, drivers another but also the rest of the team.... For example in Turkey Neuville's retirement from first place was due to a mechanic not mounting the damper correctly and 3 stages later (after another service) Mikkelsen dropped from 1st to 5th after he left service with some bolts missing.


-------------
Obviously you can agree on CCs opinions/speculations or not. But to criticize him for having an option and sharing it when he is a journalist is extremely retarded. To attract manufacturers/sponsors you need popularity, (almost) any kind of discussion or media talk is a plus. CC is atm the only worldwide known rally journalist that actually has an opinion and gets out with it. We should want more of those, not less.(Evans is 99% press release copy and Holmes used to be ok some time ago but lately is like Evans).

Agree whit you about CC, his info isnt always right, but its entertainment for worldwide rally fans. I like the guy, hope he keeps up his work ad pasionatte as this

[Duvel]

Why would that Sunninen guy and Evans have a partial program in WRC?

I just think it could be that M sport is not doing the whole 2019 championship.

[RS]

I just think it could be that M sport is not doing the whole 2019 championship.

When dies FIA announce 2019 entry list? We’ll know soon.

[AnttiL]

I just think it could be that M sport is not doing the whole 2019 championship.

Suninen has a deal for the whole season, that's what we know for now.

[AnttiL]

I can't really agree with him on the reason tbh. Clark says main goal for Loeb would be to "support" Neuville. I really don't think Loeb would want to drive some rallies just to drop behind to clear the road (ref. Evans and Suninen in Finland, Australia etc..), to be forbidden to drive fast on power stages or to have to do service on his car himself when mechanics are busy with Neuvilles car.

For me the main reason Hyundai would want Loeb is to help with development and setup on the car as they seem to struggle quite often with setup even against Ford and Citroen and vs Toyota seem to lack speed in general.

I think the most important thing why Hyundai would want to hire someone like Loeb is to secure manufacturer championship. Both in terms of good results in addition to Neuville and car setup help.

[er88]

Supporting Neuville doesn't necessarily mean dropping positions to finish behind him, or doing what Evans and Suninen did this year for Ogier. Loeb could support Neuville by winning rallies or finishing ahead of Neuville's title rivals. Taking pts away from the likes of Ogier and Tanak etc. This helps Hyundai and Neuville.

Evans and Suninen got used in almost humiliating fashion sometimes by Msport this year, but it's only because Suninen is a rookie and Evans had an awful season. They wouldn't have been dropping minor places at the end of rallies, or at the end of days to help with running order, if either were up fighting for the wins. Most of the time they were at the back end of the top 10 or 5th,6th,7th at best. Tanak didn't get asked to do that for Seb at Msport, yet he still "supported" Ogiers title bid because he took pts off Neuville by winning rallies and finishing ahead of him.

Ofcourse if Loeb is 3rd and Neuville 4th, they'd swap positions or anything similar. But I'm sure Neuville wants a team mate who is better than what he's got and can be up there sort of challenging. I believe he's said as much himself? Mikkelsen was meant to be that team mate but Neuville has made him look like a mug most of the season.

[Jewy46]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/motorsport/2018/1206/1015566-craig-breen-stays-positive-after-cruel-year/

Craig says he is "desperately trying to put something together" for next year.
Also says "atmosphere was difficult at times in the team", think that says a lot.....

Hopefully he can but you can see the difficulty of getting a seat in the current climate.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Supporting Neuville doesn't necessarily mean dropping positions to finish behind him, or doing what Evans and Suninen did this year for Ogier. Loeb could support Neuville by winning rallies or finishing ahead of Neuville's title rivals. Taking pts away from the likes of Ogier and Tanak etc. This helps Hyundai and Neuville.

Evans and Suninen got used in almost humiliating fashion sometimes by Msport this year, but it's only because Suninen is a rookie and Evans had an awful season. They wouldn't have been dropping minor places at the end of rallies, or at the end of days to help with running order, if either were up fighting for the wins. Most of the time they were at the back end of the top 10 or 5th,6th,7th at best. Tanak didn't get asked to do that for Seb at Msport, yet he still "supported" Ogiers title bid because he took pts off Neuville by winning rallies and finishing ahead of him.

Ofcourse if Loeb is 3rd and Neuville 4th, they'd swap positions or anything similar. But I'm sure Neuville wants a team mate who is better than what he's got and can be up there sort of challenging. I believe he's said as much himself? Mikkelsen was meant to be that team mate but Neuville has made him look like a mug most of the season.

Excellent post summing up exactly why it was fair for Evans and Suninen to support Ogier.

[Rally Power]

I can't really agree with him on the reason tbh. Clark says main goal for Loeb would be to "support" Neuville.
-------------
Obviously you can agree on CCs opinions/speculations or not. But to criticize him for having an option and sharing it when he is a journalist is extremely retarded. To attract manufacturers/sponsors you need popularity, (almost) any kind of discussion or media talk is a plus. CC is atm the only worldwide known rally journalist that actually has an opinion and gets out with it. We should want more of those, not less.(Evans is 99% press release copy and Holmes used to be ok some time ago but lately is like Evans).

He actually says Loeb’s main goal would be helping Hyundai to get championships (manus and drivers); he’s totally rigth underlining how vital Loeb can be to a Hyundai rebound, just like Ogier is for Citroen (and already could have been last year).

Btw, between call Clark pathetic or considering him the most notorious rally journalist of the world, there’s probably a better way to define his work, once even he admitts not being a journalist. A journalist main job is to inform and report, not to speculate or entertain; in that sense I miss a more active presence of Mr. Holmes, for decades the most respected rally news source, and believe that it’s fair to admit that Evans is now the main reference in that field, no matter how people judge his work. Anyway, Clark surely deserves credit for opening a new kind of rally comunication in the social media and there’s plenty of room and freedom for others to follow him.

[T16]

He actually says Loeb’s main goal would be helping Hyundai to get championships (manus and drivers); he’s totally rigth underlining how vital Loeb can be to a Hyundai rebound, just like Ogier is for Citroen (and already could have been last year).

Btw, between call Clark pathetic or considering him the most notorious rally journalist of the world, there’s probably a better way to define his work, once even he admitts not being a journalist. A journalist main job is to inform and report, not to speculate or entertain; in that sense I miss a more active presence of Mr. Holmes, for decades the most respected rally news source, and believe that it’s fair to admit that Evans is now the main reference in that field, no matter how people judge his work. Anyway, Clark surely deserves credit for opening a new kind of rally comunication in the social media and there’s plenty of room and freedom for others to follow him.

Call his style what you will, journalism or creator of speculation, but he clearly doesn’t actually understand the sport, the driving, what’s REALLY going on in the cars, in the drivers heads, on the stages.
The guys a complete fraud.
He’s happier talking about how good looking Mikkelsen is, rather than why the Citroen handles like a bag of shit etc.
Honestly, can’t understand why people keep defending the guy.
He literally sits at his keyboard and table and babbles as much crap as his energy reserves will allow him.
As a person, I actually like him (believe it or not), but as someone who has responsibility reporting on rallying, he should be nowhere near it.
Put it this way, if he had to transfer his level of understanding of rallying to premiership football, as a pundit, he wouldn’t even get close to local radio, never mind TV.
I honestly can’t be arsed going over every prediction or thought that’s come out of his mouth since he has somehow gained a bit of momentum, but I reckon if I did, you could literally destroy everything he’s said.
Bring back Mark James and with him a few facts, not this shit.

[spiderem]

great to see open mind on this forum... bring back this, that was better back then, blabla. Sport is dying because of this, new generation will not be passionate if we keep talking on how much better was Group B, or that journalist knew so much on car handling it was great.

Come on guys, to attract new fans, sport needs to change. And kitchen table is one great way to capture more people, and it may not be as accurate as the dye hard fan would like it to be, but it's a great piece in my opinion.

[T16]

great to see open mind on this forum... bring back this, that was better back then, blabla. Sport is dying because of this, new generation will not be passionate if we keep talking on how much better was Group B, or that journalist knew so much on car handling it was great.

Come on guys, to attract new fans, sport needs to change. And kitchen table is one great way to capture more people, and it may not be as accurate as the dye hard fan would like it to be, but it's a great piece in my opinion.

The sport is dying because there is a permanent knife edge in terms of manufacturer entries and it’s always in a ‘will they, won’t they’ stay state.
Fair enough, unfair of me to compare Clarke to Mark James, it’s Desbrough I would have James replace in a shot. I just think that him and Clarke don’t actually ‘get’ the seriousness of the sport they are involved in.
Call it nostalgia or whatever, but when Mark James commentated on the sport, he didn’t make it sound like some fun game, rather the serious spectacle it is.
Maybe Clarke wouldn’t be so bad if he did a kitchen table once in a while, but he seems to do a new one every tome someone farts who’s got anything to do with the WRC and you can hardly call it forecasting or prediction when he literally has a stab at every possible combination of driver team.
Some think this is the way forward in terms of communicating the sport, I honestly think there’s another, much less excitable, method that actually conveys the reality of what these men and women do when they are flat out in a forest.

[GravelBen]

The sport isn't dying, you don't have to be so melodramatic about it.

[Hartusvuori]

I honestly can’t be arsed going over every prediction or thought that’s come out of his mouth since he has somehow gained a bit of momentum, but I reckon if I did, you could literally destroy everything he’s said.

You are not obligated to watch his ramblings. I watch his monologues maybe once every two months or so, just to be entertained, not informed. His Kitchen Tables bring joy to a number of people, it's not away from anyone. Colin is not taking a job away from anyone. He is an entertainer, hired PR hand and admittedly a rallying personality. A journalist he is not, but there's a lot of journalist in him. Actually, I don't know if there could be such a thing as a rallying journalist as long as this whole thing revolves around promoting brands. I don't get what satisfaction it gives to people to use energy so much in disliking someone. You don't have to like everybody, but such as in this forum there's an ignore option, it actually can be used in real life too if you learn how to.

[Allez Andruet]

The sport is dying because there is a permanent knife edge in terms of manufacturer entries and it’s always in a ‘will they, won’t they’ stay state.
Fair enough, unfair of me to compare Clarke to Mark James, it’s Desbrough I would have James replace in a shot. I just think that him and Clarke don’t actually ‘get’ the seriousness of the sport they are involved in.
Call it nostalgia or whatever, but when Mark James commentated on the sport, he didn’t make it sound like some fun game, rather the serious spectacle it is.
Maybe Clarke wouldn’t be so bad if he did a kitchen table once in a while, but he seems to do a new one every tome someone farts who’s got anything to do with the WRC and you can hardly call it forecasting or prediction when he literally has a stab at every possible combination of driver team.
Some think this is the way forward in terms of communicating the sport, I honestly think there’s another, much less excitable, method that actually conveys the reality of what these men and women do when they are flat out in a forest.

Seems difficult for some to understand that Clark works for the WRC. It's his job to create content for the rallying community and he does it passionately, like he cares for the sport and what's happening around it. He IS a rally man. In short, in this Red Bull-era where expertise isn't always appreciated, it could be much much worse.

[T16]

The sport isn't dying, you don't have to be so melodramatic about it.

By dying, I mean less top cars entering events. In this regard, it definitely is.

[Tarmop]

Mm, quantity isn`t an indicator of quality. We have 4 different makes with good drivers...we`ve had just 2 makes with all sorts of tourists (not saying, it is bad and we still have them occasionally now).

[dimviii]

https://www.facebook.com/paulfraikinchampions/videos/2338994949701543/

[T16]

Mm, quantity isn`t an indicator of quality. We have 4 different makes with good drivers...we`ve had just 2 makes with all sorts of tourists (not saying, it is bad and we still have them occasionally now).

I know it’s not, but I guess there’s two things I’m thinking here...
One is that, from a spectator point of view, watching the 10-12 WRC cars leaves you wanting a lot more (especially when they are as good to watch as they are now)... I know some people are into the R5 stuff, but they’re crap to watch in comparison.
So with the above in mind, I’m wondering what the promoters feel about the current entry level, yeah, it’s been a good season championship-wise and it makes good TV, but stage-side, after the first ten cars, it’s not good at all.
Point two is that I’m genuinely worried about how close the series seems every year to losing one or two top teams... yes, Citroen are staying, but imagine if they weren’t, and let’s be honest, if Ogier wasn’t there, there’s a good chance they would have gone.
And next year M-Sport may not show up either. So whilst we have three, maybe four, we are bloody close to only having two... and then what? How long would Hyundai and Toyota slog it out for?
It may seem all rosey, but it certainly isn’t.
I would be gutted if the whole thing imploded and had to start from scratch again.
I just hope those sat in power are being realistic when it comes to evaluating the health of the current WRC.

[deephouse]

Simple if the sport will go down they will probably go similar like TCR and WTCC merging. Here they will make R5 the top car and many of them are pretty much still competitive and I'm sure Peugeot (probably will make new one when new 208 arrives), Toyota, Proton will be in the mix of Skoda, Volkswagen, Hyundai, Citroen and M-Sport (on purpose I didn't type Ford because they don't care). And a lot cheaper too.

[Allez Andruet]

By dying, I mean less top cars entering events. In this regard, it definitely is.

And if that's the logic, how in the world did the sport came through 1997 alive?

[AnttiL]

And if that's the logic, how in the world did the sport came through 1997 alive?

Or 2016. Three teams with three cars, Citroens doing one-offs here and there.

[Zeakiwi]

FIA Prize Giving 2018 - St Petersburg , Russia

https://www.fia.com/news/fias-fanfare-champions-saint-petersburg

[spiderem]

FIA Prize Giving 2018 - St Petersburg , Russia

https://www.fia.com/news/fias-fanfare-champions-saint-petersburg

Lol looking at the pictures, i have the feeling ingrassia is slightly annoyed to get a "small" trophy again...

[T16]

Or 2016. Three teams with three cars, Citroens doing one-offs here and there.
I’m not saying it couldn’t. I’m saying it would be a nightmare if it collapsed again.
And why do you think, just because it resurrected itself in the past, the same could happen again? There are no guarantees.

[dimviii]

Lol looking at the pictures, i have the feeling ingrassia is slightly annoyed to get a "small" trophy again...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181208/0f43a79ced276f6e00806ecf8f4b2fb6.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rossi wins Monza Rally Show ahead of Suninen:

https://www.motorsport.com/rally/news/rossi-monza-rally-show-seventh-win/4310823/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APm2YMyg7Ew

Incl. Suninen's off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCyPKKAedl8

[RallySport Mag]

Martin Holmes is still very active in WRC reporting, with his weekly articles and rally news appearing at www.rallysportmag.com

If you haven't checked out our site, we'd love you to head across and have a look.

Cheers, Peter

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Paddon statement here:
https://m.facebook.com/haydenpaddonwrc

[deephouse]

Paddon statement here:
https://m.facebook.com/haydenpaddonwrc

Nothing new

[AnttiL]

The new thing today is that he admits other teams than Hyundai (=M-Sport) are out of question.

[Rally Power]

great to see open mind on this forum... bring back this, that was better back then, blabla. Sport is dying because of this, new generation will not be passionate if we keep talking on how much better was Group B, or that journalist knew so much on car handling it was great.
Come on guys, to attract new fans, sport needs to change. And kitchen table is one great way to capture more people, and it may not be as accurate as the dye hard fan would like it to be, but it's a great piece in my opinion.

You’re tottaly right about the need for an open mind, but that shouldn’t automatically turn anything new into something great. Besides, like many already said, the WRC (and Rally globally) is not dying, on the contrary, it’s living the most fantastic era since a long time, with mindblowing cars, a top drivers level and a media coverage like never before.

Anyway, there’s no doubt that Clark is a WRC passioned commentator, with a reasonable understanding and knowledge of the sport and although I prefer to read his pieces than watching KT, his emissions are proving there’s room for some kind of WRC weekly special; a proper show produced by Red Bull crew using their free channel, or by All Live staff on WRC+, would be very welcomed.



Martin Holmes is still very active in WRC reporting, with his weekly articles and rally news appearing at www.rallysportmag.com

Thank’s for remember; with so many good rally sites, including yours, it’s becoming a bit hard to follow all.