[WRC] News & Rumours 2019

[deephouse]

I don't think it's far-fetched to imagine a scenario where Mr Toyoda, as President of the sixth-largest company in the world by revenue, the world's largest automotive manufacturer, gets on a plane and flies to Estonia to personally ask Tanak to stay with Toyota. I can also imagine that James Hackett, President and CEO of Ford, has no idea who Tanak is...

There is a quite difference between those two. Hackett probably don't even know what rallying is all abou, because he doesn't give a shit. And on the other side Toyoda have a passion for this sport.

[the sniper]

I'll start a wild rumour!

TGR lineup:
Tanak, Meeke, Latvala

Abu Dhabi Toyota
Rovanpera, Katsuta/Al Qassimi

;)

[steve.mandzij]

I'll start a wild rumour!

TGR lineup:
Tanak, Meeke, Latvala

Abu Dhabi Toyota
Rovanpera, Katsuta/Al Qassimi

;)That's actually brilliant!

We need junior teams back!

[deephouse]

probably only Toyota would have one since M-Sport have no proper funds and Citroens doesn't care.

[the sniper]

Well, while I'm at it...

Shell V-Power Hyundai Junior Team
Huttunen, Breen

(I've always wanted to see the Hyundai in the full Shell livery... Any photoshop wizards out there?!)

[Allez Andruet]

1798

Agreed, it's a thing of beauty.

[AnttiL]

In the specator guide of Rally Finland there's a Kalle Rovanperä interview with a comment from Jouhki "We know exactly what car Kalle drives next year and we announce it in september or october"

[mknight]

The "mid season" (after 8 out of 14 events) review on WRC.com has one new piece of information (to me). Talking about Tanak's retirement in Argentina they say that the team was trying to fix the alternator issues already the night before.

[denkimi]

Everyone knows the game; you wanna win, you MUST sign Tänak. Simple as that.
Yet ogier has won the last 6 titles.

[Allez Andruet]

Yet ogier has won the last 6 titles.

Indeed. But he won't win the next six. And make no mistake, I sincerely hope Ogier will retain his title again this year, but the writing's on the wall, so to say. If he's able to maintain his current pace (and why wouldn't he?), Tänak will undeniably be crowned sooner rather than later.

[denkimi]

Indeed. But he won't win the next six. And make no mistake, I sincerely hope Ogier will retain his title again this year, but the writing's on the wall, so to say. If he's able to maintain his current pace (and why wouldn't he?), Tänak will undeniably be crowned sooner rather than later.
Although i also believe tanak and neuville could both be world champions, its not always so easy.
Without loeb hirvonen would have been a big champion, without ogier neuville would have been 4 times chamion.
Just because you have the speed doesn't mean you win the title, there are lots of other variables.

No matter what some diehard fans here might think, tanaks pace is undoubtedly connected to the yaris. Just because he has dominant speed today because the hyundai of neuville and the citroen of ogier are slower, does not mean he will be dominant next year and beyond.
He deserves to be champion, but it's not always that easy.

[Allez Andruet]

Although i also believe tanak and neuville could both be world champions, its not always so easy.
Without loeb hirvonen would have been a big champion, without ogier neuville would have been 4 times chamion.
Just because you have the speed doesn't mean you win the title, there are lots of other variables.
When you're clearly - as Tänak is ATM - the fastest driver on the grid, you'll eventually take the title. Neuville nor Hirvonen never showed such dominance in their primes (for Neuville the prime is still "on" ofcourse).


No matter what some diehard fans here might think, tanaks pace is undoubtedly connected to the yaris.

Ok, here we go again...

[Mk2 RS2000]

There is a subtle difference between being the fastest driver in a championship and a driver able to win a Championship

[mknight]

When you're clearly - as Tänak is ATM - the fastest driver on the grid, you'll eventually take the title. Neuville nor Hirvonen never showed such dominance in their primes (for Neuville the prime is still "on" ofcourse).

In 2004 P. Solberg was clearly the fastest driver (50% more stage wins than anyone else). No title that year and 0 titles after that.

Nothing is certain about the future. Tänak is very clear about that himself and said so on interviews already last year. Being fast now doesn't quarantee future succes and being fast alone is not enough to get title.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

And remember Colin McRae, legendary for his flat-out driving... but only won one Title.

[steve.mandzij]

And Jari Matti, for years claimed to be the quickest driver and hailed as a sure-fire future champion.

[Allez Andruet]

Ofcourse it's not a quarantee of anything. Who knows, maybe the world ends tomorrow and there's no need to drive any more rallies. My point was, that out of the future scenarios, the most likely is the one where Tänak rules. It doesn't mean that it would be the one and only possibility, but that's how it looks at the moment and that exactly will determine who's hot on the market and who's not.

[trykmann]

No matter what some diehard fans here might think, tanaks pace is undoubtedly connected to the yaris..

His speed is connected to the car, but the car doesn't drive itself. I believe people tend underestimate Tänaks raw speed, his form has just been rising in the past few seasons and might be at it's peak right now.

Meeke or Latvala have had some good stage times, but haven't shown consistent speed with the Yaris. Although they are also considered as drivers, who can win every rally.

[denkimi]

Ofcourse it's not a quarantee of anything. Who knows, maybe the world ends tomorrow and there's no need to drive any more rallies. My point was, that out of the future scenarios, the most likely is the one where Tänak rules. It doesn't mean that it would be the one and only possibility, but that's how it looks at the moment and that exactly will determine who's hot on the market and who's not.
As i said before. Yet, ogier has won the last 6 titles.

Despite how things may look today, i'd still put my money on ogier if they manage to get that citroen at the same level as the yaris.
Even though results of the past give no guarantee for the future, they do give a good indication to compare drivers.

[Allez Andruet]

As i said before. Yet, ogier has won the last 6 titles.
Too bad it's somewhat irrelevant when it comes to Tänak's value on the driver market.

[stefanvv]

Although i also believe tanak and neuville could both be world champions, its not always so easy.
Without loeb hirvonen would have been a big champion, without ogier neuville would have been 4 times chamion.
Just because you have the speed doesn't mean you win the title, there are lots of other variables.

No matter what some diehard fans here might think, tanaks pace is undoubtedly connected to the yaris. Just because he has dominant speed today because the hyundai of neuville and the citroen of ogier are slower, does not mean he will be dominant next year and beyond.
He deserves to be champion, but it's not always that easy.

While yaris is undoubtedly the fastest car, Tanak was really fast with the fiesta too. But of course there was Ogier factor back then too. How much it really affected Tanak's championship in m-sport? It'll be ironic if he returns next year with them.

[denkimi]

It's like some people here seem to remember nothing that happened before 2018.
They seem to have forgotten how good ogier always has been, how he has always beaten everyone, even the maestro himself. They seem to have forgotten how dominantly fast the ogier-polo combination was, but how that disappeared when he stepped in the fiesta.
They seem to have forgotten how dominantly fast neuville was in early 2017, but how that completely dissapeared later.

And most of al, they seem to have forgotten that we have had a direct comparison between ogier and tanak. A comparison that showed that tanak is as fast as ogier, in the best optimistic case a tiny bit faster, dut definitely not that much faster as he is today in the yaris.


His speed is connected to the car, but the car doesn't drive itself. I believe people tend underestimate Tänaks raw speed, his form has just been rising in the past few seasons and might be at it's peak right now.

Meeke or Latvala have had some good stage times, but haven't shown consistent speed with the Yaris. Although they are also considered as drivers, who can win every rally.
The question is: do you believe tanak would be just as dominant in any other of the current wrc cars? Do you believe he would be just as dominant if ogier or neuville would also drive a toyota?

I have no doubt tanak has huge raw speed. He's is amongst the big 3, perhaps even the fastest of them all.
But i do have doubts about how changing team suddenly made him gain so much speed that he easily with one hand tied on his back beats the 6 times world champion and the 4 times runner up.


While yaris is undoubtedly the fastest car, Tanak was really fast with the fiesta too. But of course there was Ogier factor back then too. How much it really affected Tanak's championship in m-sport? It'll be ironic if he returns next year with them.
He was fast indeed, but he was not "humiliating ogier fast" like he is in the yaris.

[mknight]

Too bad it's somewhat irrelevant when it comes to Tänak's value on the driver market.

Ogier and Neuville have contracts for next year. (as well as Lappi and Loeb)

Out of the drivers who do not have contract Tänak is obviously the most expensive.
(others without contract are Latvala, Meeke, Mikkelsen, Sordo, Evans +Breen, Paddon, Østberg. Not sure about Suninen).

Whether Tänak at this moment has higher value than Ogier or Neuville is also irrelevant, cause those two are not on the market.

But sure we can speculate, even though it doesn't matter at all.

Ogier has imo higher value than Tänak right now but he is very vocal about ending soon. If teoretically Citroen could right now pick between him and Tänak they would pay more money for Ogier for multiple reasons (nationality, 6 titles already, developing at least 2 2017 cars..). For other teams the decision could depend on whether they want results and publicity right now or want to also think about next 3 years.

Similarly Neuville has immense value for Hyundai, probably higher than they would pay for Tänak, cause he is the only driver out of 5 that can drive the i20 consistently fast on most rallies. All the other 4 that drove it could't do that (Loeb is one of them). So if there was a question they would definitely pick him over Tänak. But Neuville's pace with i20 gives him much lower values in the eyes of other teams cause they have to wonder whether he picked up some "bad" habits that will not work with other cars. (ex. his tarmac style)

Clearly for Toyota, Tänak is a must have for top results atm since the other two have contracts. Therefore they might pay him much more than Ogier and Neuville are currently getting. At the same time they seem to be aimed at staying in WRC for multiple years, so if they don't get him, they might run next year with a team without one of the Top3, focusing on sorting reliability and developing Rovanpera and Katsuta as their future drivers (with Joukhi's Suninen at the ready).

[mknight]

They seem to have forgotten how dominantly fast neuville was in early 2017, but how that completely dissapeared later.


This had to be quoted as it is the most recent example of big speed dominance that seemed unstopable.... until it wasn't there.

[trykmann]

And most of al, they seem to have forgotten that we have had a direct comparison between ogier and tanak. A comparison that showed that tanak is as fast as ogier, in the best optimistic case a tiny bit faster, dut definitely not that much faster as he is today in the yaris.


The question is: do you believe tanak would be just as dominant in any other of the current wrc cars? Do you believe he would be just as dominant if ogier or neuville would also drive a toyota?



He might not be this dominant, but I belive he would still be the fastest guy. Season 2017 was still a learning year for him and throughout the season you could see his speed growing. Also his driving style has become a lot more neat, precise and consistent.

Yaris is definetely the fastest, but it wouldn't be without Tänak. He might be one of the best drivers for setting up cars and the driver shouldn't be underestimated for making a good setup.

I am just a bit annoyed, when the public and even WRC commentators express their opinion like the Yaris drives itself.

[stefanvv]

The question is: do you believe tanak would be just as dominant in any other of the current wrc cars? Do you believe he would be just as dominant if ogier or neuville would also drive a toyota?

We can only speculate about this, but yes, I do believe Tanak would be just as dominant in Fiesta this year, even if it's just in terms of points, not raw speed. Surely somehow he managed to make yaris to his liking, still he was always comfortable in the fiesta.

[krissucool]

To give you guys a clue about how the industry that revolves around making money on sporting results thinks. Tänaks odds to win the title this year are currently at 1.30 on average. Giving him a roughly 80% chance for the title.

What is even crazier, when Tänak was trailing neuville by 28 points before Chile, his odds were around 1.40 - 1.50.

Now, if you think Ogier will win the title this year then I suggest you to bet big amounts on him. His odds for the title currently at around 3.50 on most books.

[cali]

It's like some people here seem to remember nothing that happened before 2018.
They seem to have forgotten how good ogier always has been, how he has always beaten everyone, even the maestro himself. They seem to have forgotten how dominantly fast the ogier-polo combination was, but how that disappeared when he stepped in the fiesta.
They seem to have forgotten how dominantly fast neuville was in early 2017, but how that completely dissapeared later.

And most of al, they seem to have forgotten that we have had a direct comparison between ogier and tanak. A comparison that showed that tanak is as fast as ogier, in the best optimistic case a tiny bit faster, dut definitely not that much faster as he is today in the yaris.


The question is: do you believe tanak would be just as dominant in any other of the current wrc cars? Do you believe he would be just as dominant if ogier or neuville would also drive a toyota?

I have no doubt tanak has huge raw speed. He's is amongst the big 3, perhaps even the fastest of them all.
But i do have doubts about how changing team suddenly made him gain so much speed that he easily with one hand tied on his back beats the 6 times world champion and the 4 times runner up.


He was fast indeed, but he was not "humiliating ogier fast" like he is in the yaris.Time goes on and what was yesterday is not the reality tomorrow

[denkimi]

He might not be this dominant, but I belive he would still be the fastest guy. Season 2017 was still a learning year for him and throughout the season you could see his speed growing. Also his driving style has become a lot more neat, precise and consistent.

people also seem to forget, or just don't know how long tanak has been around.
he started rallying in 2001/2002, the same year as latvala. ogier started in 2006, neuville in 2007/2008.
he started his wrc career in 2012, the same year as neuville.

he's not a young driver anymore who should be learning and who's speed must grow.


Time goes on and what was yesterday is not the reality tomorrow
indeed. perhaps after summer break ogier or neuville could win every rally, who knows.
the margins are small, a little increase in the pace of the citroen or the hyundai could completely turn things around.

lets just hope it stays exiting till the last rally, like last year. whoever will win, he will have deserved it.

[Tarmop]

Great, you've looked at ewrc. Now look what and where each of them was driving. Comparing Latvala's WRC debut with a WRC to local youth events in a mk2 golf is third level...

[denkimi]

Great, you've looked at ewrc. Now look what and where each of them was driving. Comparing Latvala's WRC debut with a WRC to local youth events in a mk2 golf is third level...
Latvala having a richer daddy is completely next to the point.

Tanak is not a young new driver anymore.

[Franky]

Sorry to crash the party, but how is any of these last few pages rumours or news?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Sorry to crash the party, but how is any of these last few pages rumours or news?

The discussion of Tanak's future came from the Autosport news:

'Hyundai joins the race to sign Ott Tanak for the 2020 #WRC season as team boss Andrea Adamo outlines his 'superteam' stance'.

[dnb]

You should try to remember what you thought or wrote when Tänak moved from MSport to Toyota.

PS: was it "he is not the fastest, but will be in Toyota"?

[Andre Oliveira]

I heard about a F1 rule to be applied in WRC, someone know what it is?

[Allez Andruet]

I heard about a F1 rule to be applied in WRC, someone know what it is?

To quote Terry Harryman: oh dear god. Last time F1 was cool we were living in 20th century.

[janvanvurpa]

To quote Terry Harryman: oh dear god. Last time F1 was cool we we're living in 20th century.

Was it ever really cool? No jumps, no sideways , no gravel spray routinely , prima-donna drivers and worst of all insufferably annoying fan bois that make NOT seem like a thoughtful and reflective and knowledgeable person..

[stefanvv]

I heard about a F1 rule to be applied in WRC, someone know what it is?

Something to do with the future hybrids?!?

[Norm75]

Was it ever really cool? No jumps, no sideways , no gravel spray routinely , prima-donna drivers and worst of all insufferably annoying fan bois that make NOT seem like a thoughtful and reflective and knowledgeable person..

60's. Jim Clark . . Plenty of drifting and definitely not a prima Donna.

[EstWRC]

DRS on the straights ? :p

[mknight]

Saw this on twitter ( https://twitter.com/TrackTalkBlog/status/1149034051250135042 )
"After 8 rounds this season just 2 of the 11 WRC drivers are yet to finish on the podium, but who are they? #WRC"

The answer is obvious to anyone following the WRC, however, I haven't really thought that they are the only 2 out of all 11 drivers. That's actually quite amazing if you think about it.

[satnav]

Saw this on twitter ( https://twitter.com/TrackTalkBlog/status/1149034051250135042 )
"After 8 rounds this season just 2 of the 11 WRC drivers are yet to finish on the podium, but who are they? #WRC"

The answer is obvious to anyone following the WRC, however, I haven't really thought that they are the only 2 out of all 11 drivers. That's actually quite amazing if you think about it.

It is indeed , I wonder will they turn it round next time out, and lock out the podium , time will tell......

[mknight]

Toyota 1-2-3 is entirely possible in Finland. But I dare not to predict how likely it is.

Unexpected things happen, Østbergs pace last year came seemingly from nowhere, Lappi's and Latvala's (relative) lack of pace were also surprising, Ogier's was even more.

[wia5958]

Saw this on twitter ( https://twitter.com/TrackTalkBlog/status/1149034051250135042 )
"After 8 rounds this season just 2 of the 11 WRC drivers are yet to finish on the podium, but who are they? #WRC"

The answer is obvious to anyone following the WRC, however, I haven't really thought that they are the only 2 out of all 11 drivers. That's actually quite amazing if you think about it.

That blog should really stick to what it focuses on which is mostly tracks. Wonder have they stated there has only been 5 different drivers that have stood on F1 podiums the whole of this year. Not won but actually on the podium Coincidentally it's the furthest into a season latvala or Meeke have ever gone without a podium

[Mirek]

It is indeed , I wonder will they turn it round next time out, and lock out the podium , time will tell......

Moreover it's the two oldest "serving" drivers in the circus.

[mknight]

Dunno how you classify "serving" but Loeb is older than both and Sordo is older than Latvala.

[Mirek]

Loeb isn't a full-time driver hence I didn't count him.

[lnvs]

Also Ogier is older than Latvala. But guess he ain't "serving". :confused:

[AnttiL]

No 2020 calendar until August https://rallysportmag.com/2020-wrc-calendar-delayed-until-august/

[the sniper]

Got to imagine that the Safari has thrown a spanner in the works... Though the AUS/NZ and GB/NI situations still seem to be completely up in the air!

[janvanvurpa]

60's. Jim Clark . . Plenty of drifting and definitely not a prima Donna.

That was 50 years ago...50 years subsequently full of ever more hysterical hype..
One simple pass and the announcers flip out so much screaming a "Brilliant" pass and make Brazilian football fans look like geriatrics patients sedated with massive amounts of drugs as if nobody has ever passed anybody ever before..Its ridiculous..

[Mirek]

Also Ogier is older than Latvala. But guess he ain't "serving". :confused:

You don't seem to comprehend. Serving has nothing to do with age.

Latvala drove his first WRC event in 2002. Meeke in 2003. Ogier in 2008 (in fact he drove his very first national rally only in 2006).

[AnttiL]

Jouhki says Ford might return as a factory team with the hybrid regulations. He thinks Tänak will stay at Toyota, but if he leaves, Kalle will go there. He also says M-Sport is always a good option for a new driver to rehearse.

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-10876239

[mknight]

Jouhki says Ford might return as a factory team with the hybrid regulations. He thinks Tänak will stay at Toyota, but if he leaves, Kalle will go there. He also says M-Sport is always a good option for a new driver to rehearse.

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-10876239

I read it as saying pretty directly that Kalle will either go to Toyota or MSport and I agree it's the best options. C3 seems a bit tricky on gravel atm. and only one driver has ever been able to consistently deliver with I20. Just as before I am not so convinced he should drive full season yet though.

For me it also looks very likely that Evans will go somewhere else if he continues to prove a reliable points scorer. Surely that has to be something for the teams fighting for manu title (Toyota, Hyundai and probably Citroen next year). MSport with Tanak would want cheap/paying drivers and Evans probably would not be interested in that any more. But it might be that if MSport doesn't get Tanak they change their goal from driver title/rally wins to manu title and sign one of Latvala/Meeke/Mikkelsen and keep Evans.

Latvala/Meeke will want to stay at Toyota, but unless they do like 2 podiums each in next 3 rallies I think one of them will leave, then the question will be who (if?) hires them. Latvala going "cheap" to MSport seems most likely.

Mikkelsen would want to leave Hyundai if he can (unless he drives in Germany and has normal speed there). Tommi never seemed interested though and I can't see that happening unless he kicks both Latvala and Meeke, which is not very likely. Out of the other two Citroen (with 3 cars) looks most likely to me.

Anyway just like Jouhki says the fastest free driver will kick it all off and everything else will depend on what he does. That's undoubtedly Tanak atm. since Ogier and Neuville have contracts.

[AnttiL]

I typed my initial reply on the phone quickly.

Here's some quotes from Jouhki translated

"Our target is that Kalle drives next year in WRC class. I believe in that firmly"
"My guess is that Tänak will remain at Toyota, although the fight will be fierce with M-Sport and Hyundai"
"Let's say that if Tänak leaves Toyota we'll get there quite surely"
"Not all teams are such where you could imagine being as comfortable as possible" (the journalist mentions Citroen axing Meeke and Adamo's politics at Hyundai, plus Toyota's realiability problems)
"I consider all manufacturer teams to be equal in competitiveness. M-Sport is not a full works team but it's a good rehearsal team"
"Let's say that the probability to driving with Toyota is over 50%. The rest are below. Toyota is quite interesting but so are the others"

Jouhki also states that he hasn't had this situation where teams are battling for his driver since the days of Kankkunen and Mäkinen. He also claims being Finnish has no meaning in going to Toyota. Kalle's contract should be published by October.

[racerx1979]

I forgot... does Jouhki manage Latvala as well??

[Got Mail]

I forgot... does Jouhki manage Latvala as well??

Yes.

[mknight]

Afaik, last time one of his drivers won the championship was Mäkinen in 1999, 20 years ago!

Yes he has brought (or "bought") quite a few drivers to WRC, but they tend to be "second best".

[Allez Andruet]

Afaik, last time one of his drivers won the championship was Mäkinen in 1999, 20 years ago!

Yes he has brought (or "bought") quite a few drivers to WRC, but they tend to be "second best".

So far the list of "Jouhki drivers in WRC" is as follows: Kankkunen, Mäkinen, Rovanperä Sr., Gardemeister, Hirvonen, Latvala and Suninen. Out of those G-Man is the only one failing to win a WRC event (I count Suninen as being on his way to one), so overall Jouhki delivers quite top quality, I would say.

[pantealex]

So far the list of "Jouhki drivers in WRC" is as follows: Kankkunen, Mäkinen, Rovanperä Sr., Gardemeister, Hirvonen, Latvala and Suninen. Out of those G-Man is the only one failing to win a WRC event (I count Suninen as being on his way to one), so overall Jouhki delivers quite top quality, I would say.

Mökkönen is his only mistake ;)

[Allez Andruet]

Mökkönen is his only mistake ;)

Was he with Jouhki? Didn't know that. Mökkönen had huge potential (all the way since Finnish Junior Championship '88) but it just never materialized on World level. 1000 Lakes 1995 was especially bitter moment :(

[mknight]

So far the list of "Jouhki drivers in WRC" is as follows: Kankkunen, Mäkinen, Rovanperä Sr., Gardemeister, Hirvonen, Latvala and Suninen. Out of those G-Man is the only one failing to win a WRC event (I count Suninen as being on his way to one), so overall Jouhki delivers quite top quality, I would say.

Clearly this explains the comment why it's long time since teams fought for his driver. Only exception could have been Latvala back in days, but I don't remember how it went then. Hirvonen had to be "rescued" after the too early entry with Subaru. Gardermeister always seemed to end in the wrong team until 2005 when it was kind of too late.

I am not saying Jouhki doesn't deliver, but compared to how arrogant he seems in media, it's certainly not as great. (as mentioned out of the 5 drivers that won the title in last 20 years, none was his). Last one I remember is from last year (Germany or Finland I think).
Becs: "I am standing here with one of the most famous WRC managers...."
Joukhi jumps in in the middle of the sentence: "Correction, THE most famous WRC manager...."

[AnttiL]

Who else can you name? Veiby? How many titles? Jouhki already decided to retire but then Suninen(?) changed his mind

[rallyfiend]

Who else can you name? Veiby? How many titles? Jouhki already decided to retire but then Suninen(?) changed his mind

Kim Vatanen worked with Ogier in his early career. And many other drivers...

[Allez Andruet]

Kim Vatanen worked with Ogier in his early career. And many other drivers...

With all due respect to Kim Vatanen, his resume and legacy (when it comes to managing WRC drivers) is not even in the same ballpark as Jouhki's.

[mknight]

Who else can you name? Veiby? How many titles? Jouhki already decided to retire but then Suninen(?) changed his mind

Looks like you missed my point here. He might well be the most known manager or even the "best".
But saying it about himself that way makes him look arrogant.

Tanak is the probably the fastest driver atm, but does not go around saying that, therefore he is popular. While Neuville who is a bit more vocal about himselff is considered arrogant. Jouhki seems to be on another level above that again.

[Allez Andruet]

Who else can you name? Veiby? How many titles? Jouhki already decided to retire but then Suninen(?) changed his mind

Exactly. And I have no reason to hype up Jouhki any further, but his CV speaks volumes. Sure, not even his clients have been able to unseat any of the Sebs, but that hardly serves as any kind of base for a conclusion that he would have lost his touch or anything like that.

[Allez Andruet]

He might well be the most known manager or even the "best".
But saying it about himself that way makes him look arrogant.

And how's that affecting his resume?

Btw, there's always a sense of humor in his so-called arrogance.

[mknight]

And how's that affecting his resume?

Btw, there's always a sense of humor in his so-called arrogance.

His resume is not exactly bulletproof. You mentioned only two Sebs, but Solberg, Burns and Gronholm won 4 championships in total in same period.
As mentioned Gardermeister always seemed to end in a wrong team (Seat, Mitsu just as it started to loose out and then Skoda). Hirvonens career almost got destroyed by the too early move to a full time drive at Subaru (granted this was also due to Burns illness).

His method of "buying" seats for "almost" ready drivers is disliked by a lot of people. The typical argument is that it created a new "norm" where even relatively established drivers with good speed are expected to "bring budget". Recent example Tidemand as a WRC2 champion didn't bring money, while Suninen who often was slower than him was pushed in with budget.
(btw. Veiby's method of never paying anything seems to be the other extreme, probably not good either). Sure this effect of "buying" places has been there for ages, but it becoming a norm is associated with Jouhki prbly due to that 2004 Hirvonen year.

This way the amount of money people bring is becoming more important than actual skills, so that you risk getting more "weaker" drivers with money than very good ones without money. Since none of his drivers won the title in last 20 years it's not so easy to argue that the drivers he brought in were really the best.

[Allez Andruet]

His resume is not exactly bulletproof.
Still waiting for you to name a WRC manager with better one...


You mentioned only two Sebs, but Solberg, Burns and Gronholm won 4 championships in total in same period.
After a period (1986-1999) in which Jouhki's clients had took 8 out of 14 available titles. And as was already mentioned in this topic, Jouhki already retired (i.e didn't look for new drivers) after Latvala and actually returned with new talent only in 2015 with Suninen.


Hirvonens career almost got destroyed by the too early move to a full time drive at Subaru (granted this was also due to Burns illness).
I struggle to figure out what Burnsie has to do with all this, but the fact that Hirvonen's career DID NOT get destroyed has to be counted as a major accomplishment for Jouhki as that's what managers are being paid for, right?


His method of "buying" seats for "almost" ready drivers is disliked by a lot of people. The typical argument is that it created a new "norm" where even relatively established drivers with good speed are expected to "bring budget". Recent example Tidemand as a WRC2 champion didn't bring money, while Suninen who often was slower than him was pushed in with budget.
(btw. Veiby's method of never paying anything seems to be the other extreme, probably not good either). Sure this effect of "buying" places has been there for ages, but it becoming a norm is associated with Jouhki prbly due to that 2004 Hirvonen year.

This way the amount of money people bring is becoming more important than actual skills, so that you risk getting more "weaker" drivers with money than very good ones without money. Since none of his drivers won the title in last 20 years it's not so easy to argue that the drivers he brought in were really the best.

Oh yes, "buying seats", maybe the most hypocrite of all excuses. As team managers had never heard about that possibility before the big bad Jouhki introduced the method... Newsflash: securing funding has always played a big role especially in all motorsport.

[mknight]

Still waiting for you to name a WRC manager with better one...


20 years without title while managing 4 drivers (5 if you count Suninen) during that period, counts as less than optimal record to me.



I struggle to figure out what Burnsie has to do with all this, but the fact that Hirvonen's career DID NOT get destroyed has to be counted as a major accomplishment for Jouhki as that's what managers are being paid for, right?


Burns was signed for Subaru in 2004. If he did drive I am not sure if Hirvonen would even drive full season with them but due to Burns not being able to drive, Hirvonen got to drive full season as n2.
That season Subaru was prbly the fastest car overall (on gravel it was without a doubt) with Solberg winning 94 stages.... Hirvonen won 2 and his best results were two 4th places. While notably C. McRae was sitting out without a contract.
Possible Jouhki's fault there was that he put Hirvonen into a position he was not ready for too early.




Oh yes, "buying seats", maybe the most hypocrite of all excuses. As team managers had never heard about that possibility before the big bad Jouhki introduced the method... Newsflash: securing funding has always played a big role especially in all motorsport.

Jouhki got famous for it in rally in a bad way... with Hirvonen.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Kim Vatanen worked with Ogier in his early career. And many other drivers...

can anyone recall if Ogier sacked Kim V - relationship did not last long. If I recall correctly unhappy parting of ways and Ogier required his name be removed from KVs website

[racerx1979]

Maybe Jouhki knows JML or Meeke are out?? Would be weird for him to replace JML with Kalle. So maybe Meeke is out? Very interesting for sure. 4 car team for TGR next year? We will know soon

[Rallyper]

can anyone recall if Ogier sacked Kim V - relationship did not last long. If I recall correctly unhappy parting of ways and Ogier required his name be removed from KVs website

Kim V was partner to Emil B as well. Not good for Emil joining those "forces".

[Franky]

Kim V was partner to Emil B as well. Not good for Emil joining those "forces".

I remembered reading that Kruuda also was under Vatanen for some time.

[Allez Andruet]

I wonder what happened to V&V Sport Management, the agency that was/is run by Atte Varsta and Kim Vatanen? They seemed to be on a roll some years ago, but according to their website the current roster includes two drivers, Aki Sahila and Max Vatanen. Neither one has been too active this year (Vatanen has no starts at all, Sahila one in a local Finnish event). In addition to Ogier, their CV includes Breen, Paddon, Bergqvist, Sirmacis and Ketomaa. Maybe it's better not to assume anything, but it doesn't look too good that all of these relationships have ended.

[Allez Andruet]

Still waiting for you to name a WRC manager with better one...

20 years without title while managing 4 drivers (5 if you count Suninen) during that period, counts as less than optimal record to me.
No-one said he's perfect. Just that based on his track record, he's clearly the best in the business. Feel free to give other names to that competition but so far we haven't seen any...


Burns was signed for Subaru in 2004. If he did drive I am not sure if Hirvonen would even drive full season with them but due to Burns not being able to drive, Hirvonen got to drive full season as n2.
That season Subaru was prbly the fastest car overall (on gravel it was without a doubt) with Solberg winning 94 stages.... Hirvonen won 2 and his best results were two 4th places. While notably C. McRae was sitting out without a contract.
Ofcourse Burns' tragic illness was the reason there was a seat available at Subaru in the first place, but at the end of the day it had quite little to do with Hirvonen or especially Jouhki's resume. The McRae reference was brilliant though.


Jouhki got famous for it in rally in a bad way... with Hirvonen.
Yep, with a guy who ended up collecting six championship medals. Hard to get worse than that.

Over and out.

[EstWRC]

very interesting read https://pushingpace.com/wrc/analysis/2019/07/16/raw-pace-expected-classifications-a-mid-season-review/

[mknight]

very interesting read https://pushingpace.com/wrc/analysis/2019/07/16/raw-pace-expected-classifications-a-mid-season-review/
To finish first, first you need to finish... in this rating Duval would have been world champion.

Other than the whole concept I have 2 big issues with that rating:

1. It doesn't separate technical issues and crashes. Off course multiple crashes are not included either. So Latvala and Suninen who both crashed twice in Sweden get good potential points, just like Tänak in Sardinia.

2. Stage wins/pace after retiring. Some drivers crash on start of the rally from not very good position and then rejoin and suddenly are much faster (less pressure and road position can matter). This pace is then counted in same way as pace "when it matters".

---------------
EDIT: An extreme example of how "stage results" can have rather different meaning than performance in a rally and how positions can actually tell a different story:

Mexico 2019
"raw pace points" according to the rating= "real points" + "extra(difference), based on stage times"
Latvala 15 = 4 + 11
Sordo 10 = 4+ 6
Lappi 7 = 1 +6
Mikkelsen 4 = 0 + 4

How it went:
Latvala - retired to superrally from 4th after 2 cars ahead of him already retired (Sordo and Mikkelsen), after that posted some good times on Saturday after arriving late in TC to start as last WRC , 2 stage wins in total
Sordo - retired to SR from 2nd (ahead of Latvala, but was behind Mikkelsen when he retired 2 stages before), after that was 2nd on road cleaning for Neuville, won a super special (1 stage win in total)
Lappi - won SSS (first stage, everyone remembers the jump), after that mediocre times and retirement from 5th (1 stage win in total)
Mikkelsen - retired from 1st place with everyone on the road (bare Suninen), first on road rest of rally cleaning for Neuville, 3 stage wins in total

Yet at the extremes Latvala gets 15 "raw pace points" vs Mikkelsens 4 points with less stage wins and retirement from 4th vs 1st. Lappi actually getting those points near Sordo is also pretty much a mystery to me, even without taking road position for Sordo on Saturday/Sunday into account.

---------
Sure the rating shows that Tanak is the fastest, but to tell that all you need to do is to look on number of stage wins and number of stages leading the rally.

[janvanvurpa]

And how's that affecting his resume?

Btw, there's always a sense of humor in his so-called arrogance.


Maybe the Englishman doesn't understand Rule number One when a Finn speaks: (one of you guys told me this some years ago...)
" A Finn is never 100% serious, and a Finn is never 100% joking."

Maybe it might be good to change your screen name to something that sounds just a little more Finn than that strange name you have so Englishman understands better:smash:

[janvanvurpa]

To finish first, first you need to finish... in this rating Duval would have been world champion.

Other than the whole concept I have 2 big issues with that rating:

1. It doesn't separate technical issues and crashes. Off course multiple crashes are not included either. So Latvala and Suninen who both crashed twice in Sweden get good potential points, just like Tänak in Sardinia.

2. Stage wins/pace after retiring. Some drivers crash on start of the rally from not very good position and then rejoin and suddenly are much faster (less pressure and road position can matter). This pace is then counted in same way as pace "when it matters".

---------------
EDIT: An extreme example of how "stage results" can have rather different meaning than performance in a rally and how positions can actually tell a different story:

Mexico 2019
"raw pace points" according to the rating= "real points" + "extra(difference), based on stage times"
Latvala 15 = 4 + 11
Sordo 10 = 4+ 6
Lappi 7 = 1 +6
Mikkelsen 4 = 0 + 4

How it went:
Latvala - retired to superrally from 4th after 2 cars ahead of him already retired (Sordo and Mikkelsen), after that posted some good times on Saturday after arriving late in TC to start as last WRC , 2 stage wins in total
Sordo - retired to SR from 2nd (ahead of Latvala, but was behind Mikkelsen when he retired 2 stages before), after that was 2nd on road cleaning for Neuville, won a super special (1 stage win in total)
Lappi - won SSS (first stage, everyone remembers the jump), after that mediocre times and retirement from 5th (1 stage win in total)
Mikkelsen - retired from 1st place with everyone on the road (bare Suninen), first on road rest of rally cleaning for Neuville, 3 stage wins in total

Yet at the extremes Latvala gets 15 "raw pace points" vs Mikkelsens 4 points with less stage wins and retirement from 4th vs 1st. Lappi actually getting those points near Sordo is also pretty much a mystery to me, even without taking road position for Sordo on Saturday/Sunday into account.

---------
Sure the rating shows that Tanak is the fastest, but to tell that all you need to do is to look on number of stage wins and number of stages leading the rally.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dc/f2/69/dcf269699ec57d0b315229ebdb2c9713.jpg

[mknight]

TLDR my response to the linked rating:

https://i.chzbgr.com/full/5793837312/h736C9391/

[EstWRC]

To finish first, first you need to finish... in this rating Duval would have been world champion.

Other than the whole concept I have 2 big issues with that rating:

1. It doesn't separate technical issues and crashes. Off course multiple crashes are not included either. So Latvala and Suninen who both crashed twice in Sweden get good potential points, just like Tänak in Sardinia.

2. Stage wins/pace after retiring. Some drivers crash on start of the rally from not very good position and then rejoin and suddenly are much faster (less pressure and road position can matter). This pace is then counted in same way as pace "when it matters".

---------------
EDIT: An extreme example of how "stage results" can have rather different meaning than performance in a rally and how positions can actually tell a different story:

Mexico 2019
"raw pace points" according to the rating= "real points" + "extra(difference), based on stage times"
Latvala 15 = 4 + 11
Sordo 10 = 4+ 6
Lappi 7 = 1 +6
Mikkelsen 4 = 0 + 4

How it went:
Latvala - retired to superrally from 4th after 2 cars ahead of him already retired (Sordo and Mikkelsen), after that posted some good times on Saturday after arriving late in TC to start as last WRC , 2 stage wins in total
Sordo - retired to SR from 2nd (ahead of Latvala, but was behind Mikkelsen when he retired 2 stages before), after that was 2nd on road cleaning for Neuville, won a super special (1 stage win in total)
Lappi - won SSS (first stage, everyone remembers the jump), after that mediocre times and retirement from 5th (1 stage win in total)
Mikkelsen - retired from 1st place with everyone on the road (bare Suninen), first on road rest of rally cleaning for Neuville, 3 stage wins in total

Yet at the extremes Latvala gets 15 "raw pace points" vs Mikkelsens 4 points with less stage wins and retirement from 4th vs 1st. Lappi actually getting those points near Sordo is also pretty much a mystery to me, even without taking road position for Sordo on Saturday/Sunday into account.

---------
Sure the rating shows that Tanak is the fastest, but to tell that all you need to do is to look on number of stage wins and number of stages leading the rally.

as it really bothers you, you can write to him and make suggestions https://twitter.com/PushingPace

[wrc2017]

To finish first, first you need to finish... in this rating Duval would have been world champion.

Other than the whole concept I have 2 big issues with that rating:

1. It doesn't separate technical issues and crashes. Off course multiple crashes are not included either. So Latvala and Suninen who both crashed twice in Sweden get good potential points, just like Tänak in Sardinia.

2. Stage wins/pace after retiring. Some drivers crash on start of the rally from not very good position and then rejoin and suddenly are much faster (less pressure and road position can matter). This pace is then counted in same way as pace "when it matters".

---------------
EDIT: An extreme example of how "stage results" can have rather different meaning than performance in a rally and how positions can actually tell a different story:

Mexico 2019
"raw pace points" according to the rating= "real points" + "extra(difference), based on stage times"
Latvala 15 = 4 + 11
Sordo 10 = 4+ 6
Lappi 7 = 1 +6
Mikkelsen 4 = 0 + 4

How it went:
Latvala - retired to superrally from 4th after 2 cars ahead of him already retired (Sordo and Mikkelsen), after that posted some good times on Saturday after arriving late in TC to start as last WRC , 2 stage wins in total
Sordo - retired to SR from 2nd (ahead of Latvala, but was behind Mikkelsen when he retired 2 stages before), after that was 2nd on road cleaning for Neuville, won a super special (1 stage win in total)
Lappi - won SSS (first stage, everyone remembers the jump), after that mediocre times and retirement from 5th (1 stage win in total)
Mikkelsen - retired from 1st place with everyone on the road (bare Suninen), first on road rest of rally cleaning for Neuville, 3 stage wins in total

Yet at the extremes Latvala gets 15 "raw pace points" vs Mikkelsens 4 points with less stage wins and retirement from 4th vs 1st. Lappi actually getting those points near Sordo is also pretty much a mystery to me, even without taking road position for Sordo on Saturday/Sunday into account.

---------
Sure the rating shows that Tanak is the fastest, but to tell that all you need to do is to look on number of stage wins and number of stages leading the rally.

buuuurrrggghlllllaaaaaaaaaaagghhhhhhhhh.......

[mknight]

as it really bothers you, you can write to him and make suggestions https://twitter.com/PushingPace

You brought it up as something worth mentioning.

It just introduced a (complicated) rating that has so many issues that it in the end is about as accurate as simply looking on number of stage wins and number of stages in rally lead.

My suggestion is simply not to bother. Yes you could add tons of other variables, but weighting of these or selecting what belongs to which category would be artificial and you are back to start.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier to test Extreme-E car in advisory role:
https://www.autosport.com/fe/news/144878/ogier-to-test-extreme-e-car-in-new-advisory-role

What is Extreme-E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V09GONTUyg8

I wonder if this tech is what we will end up with in WRC after the hybrid years ?

[dimviii]

Gary Boyd
‏ @KiwiWRCfan

Gaurav Gill of India will contest Rally Turkey, Wales Rally GB and Rally Australia in the new Ford Fiesta R5. #WRC2

[dimviii]

Phil Short, who has supervised the WRC’s young driver championships for more than a decade, will retire at the end of the season

https://www.wrc.com/en/jwrc/news/2019/july2019/short-retires/page/6515--52-52-.html

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ford to return in 2022 ?!

https://twitter.com/motorpuntoes/status/1152283229782794240

[EstWRC]

https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/kannattiko-esapekka-lapin-siirtya-citroenille-totta-kai-sita-miettii-etta-se-oli-vaara-veto/7487422?mtv_ref=twb_urheilu_uusimmat_ei-F1-kiekko


finnish guys, translation please

[masa90]

He says it has been a bad season and wonders if it was a bad move.

[racerx1979]

Yikes! It seems as if maybe Lappi is on his way out. Why else be so vocal this time of year? Is he letti g other teams know he's available?

[Allez Andruet]

Yikes! It seems as if maybe Lappi is on his way out. Why else be so vocal this time of year? Is he letti g other teams know he's available?

But he's not available. Atleast he shouldn't be, if contracts are being honored.

[racerx1979]

I agree with you... I'm just surprised he's so vocal about the issues. Maybe his statements are being twisted around by media.

[Allez Andruet]

https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/kannattiko-esapekka-lapin-siirtya-citroenille-totta-kai-sita-miettii-etta-se-oli-vaara-veto/7487422?mtv_ref=twb_urheilu_uusimmat_ei-F1-kiekko


finnish guys, translation please

Lappi (translated from the video):

The season's been horrible. There is that one good result (Sweden), but it doesn't change the overall picture. It's been really challenging. The car has not suited my style and thus I've been trying to push too hard which has lead to mistakes. We made some progress during Portugal and Sardegna, but I feel like it's not enough. Ofcourse I've been thinking if the move (from Toyota to Citroen) was wrong because I've been hitting my head against the wall, but on the other hand I just make it harder for myself if I keep thinking about that. So it doesn't make sense to put any energy into that. The only goal I have (regarding Finland) is to finish. We'll see if that's good enough.

[racerx1979]

I would think Lappi would be close to Ogier in Finland... But if all this behind the scenes talk about the Citroen is true I see both Lappi and Seb struggling in Finland. Unless they announce some big changes, but other teams are also upping their game. Toyotas will dominate...

[EstWRC]

it seems they wont have the update package either for Finland, David Evans also mentioned in autosport podcast that the update will be likely in Turkey

[mknight]

it seems they wont have the update package either for Finland, David Evans also mentioned in autosport podcast that the update will be likely in Turkey

In Sardania Ogier was saying it should be for Finland, but that might have changed.

Anyway in some way it's better to wait and be sure it's a big improvement. It is over a month of extra time and Finland is just one rally, while at the end of the year there are 3,5 rallies on gravel that might just decide the championship.

Still based on Sweden speed the car shouldn't be too bad in Finland.

[AnttiL]

Still based on Sweden speed the car shouldn't be too bad in Finland.

And what Østberg achieved last year, although I'm not sure how his different driving style helped that.

[wrc2017]

it seems they wont have the update package either for Finland, David Evans also mentioned in autosport podcast that the update will be likely in Turkey
That's a complete mess from Citroen. This aero update has been talked about form start of the year, they they miss the date for the rally it should be of most advantage.

[EstWRC]

well, dont take it with 100%, its just my guess and Evans wasnt also sure on that podcast, but Lappi didnt test with the new aero in Estonia and Finland tests were also done with the old aero, as you can see it from the vids.

Maybe theres some other updates besides aero.

[RS]

Lappi (translated from the video):

The season's been horrible. There is that one good result (Sweden), but it doesn't change the overall picture. It's been really challenging. The car has not suited my style and thus I've been trying to push too hard which has lead to mistakes. We made some progress during Portugal and Sardegna, but I feel like it's not enough. Ofcourse I've been thinking if the move (from Toyota to Citroen) was wrong because I've been hitting my head against the wall, but on the other hand I just make it harder for myself if I keep thinking about that. So it doesn't make sense to put any energy into that. The only goal I have (regarding Finland) is to finish. We'll see if that's good enough.

Great to hear honesty like this and not just pr bullshit.

I suppose if Lappi found a drive elsewhere maybe Citroen would break the contract and let him go. No point continuing if it’s not working for either of them.

I would quite like to see Lappi in M-Sport, I believe in him more than Suninen.

[wrc2017]

Great to hear honesty like this and not just pr bullshit.

I suppose if Lappi found a drive elsewhere maybe Citroen would break the contract and let him go. No point continuing if it’s not working for either of them.

I would quite like to see Lappi in M-Sport, I believe in him more than Suninen.

I dont think its just Lappi stuggling, Ogier is struggling too, but has managed to cling onto the championship, through skill, luck, and other misforutune. He too know he cant stay around there much longer, unless there is big improvements soon.

[cali]

I just remember how Lappi praised the C3 saying it is better than the Yaris. Seemed to be strange at that time and now I guess he regrets it.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

I just remember how Lappi praised the C3 saying it is better than the Yaris. Seemed to be strange at that time and now I guess he regrets it.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Where did he say this? I remember him commenting on the engine differences, nothing else.

[cali]

Where did he say this? I remember him commenting on the engine differences, nothing else.I read it in our local media maybe was lost in translation but that was the comment after the first tests.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[dimviii]

Where did he say this? I remember him commenting on the engine differences, nothing else.

i ve read it too.
If i remember correct,he said that he cant understand all this talk about how bad the c3 was.And that was after he had tested the car.

[Allez Andruet]

Could be a translation issue as IIRC Lappi has been quite cautious with statements regarding the C3 from day one. The only pure comparison I remember was about the engine characteristics, probably the same AnttiL already mentioned.

[mknight]

I just remember how Lappi praised the C3 saying it is better than the Yaris. Seemed to be strange at that time and now I guess he regrets it.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

This was on test before Monte, he said basically 2 things:

- that the car wasn't so tricky as people say

- that notably the engine and gearbox were better (this part was likely related to the stalling issues under breaking in Yaris)

Monte test was dry+wet + snow tarmac though, not gravel. But I think he did some gravel test in Portugal at end of 2018 too.

[Allez Andruet]

This was on test before Monte, he said basically 2 things:

- that the car wasn't so tricky as people say

- that notably the engine and gearbox were better (this part was likely related to the stalling issues under breaking in Yaris)


If we're referring to same sources, here's what Lappi actually said:

https://www.rallit.fi/esapekka-lappi-vertaa-citroenin-ja-toyotan-wrc-autoja-peruskielella-se-on-kierroskone/

Interview with a Finnish rally site, published on the week Lappi had his second Monte PET session. Interview in Finnish, text in Finnish.

The car has potential but especially on gravel we need to work more to get that potential out. There's unused potential on aerodynamics area. We're lacking downforce on gravel. The engine philosophy is different between Citroen and Toyota. With Toyota you have more torque where as Citroen has more power on higher revs. I don't know which one is better or faster, but that's one major difference. The gearbox and transmission seem to be working better on C3 than they did on Yaris. That's a clear step forward.

https://www.rallit.fi/esapekka-lapilla-rohkaisevat-testit-voimansiirron-suhteen-citroen-on-selvasti-toyotaa-edella/

Another one, published after the first Monte PET session in December 2018. This Finnish article refers to an interview Lappi had done with rallye-magazine.de, so the quotes we see have probably been through a translation process of English => German => Finnish.

The car didn't feel difficult to drive. On some areas the Citroen engine has more power than Toyota, which is slightly better to drive (hard to figure out, what EP actually meant - sounds like a clumsy translation to me). On the transmission side Citroen is clearly ahead. The car has potential especially on gravel, and we want and plan to use it. It's harder to see (the road) from the cockpit of C3 as the windscreen is narrower and the front of the car is really high.

[EstWRC]

i remember in one interview he said that it just needs some tweaks and it will be the best car or smth like that. im too lazy to search for it.


Anyway, we with my friends were very surprised by his comments at that time. Like, you havent even done one rally with the car and you already say its better there and there and with some tweaks it will be the best car.


Testing is one thing, rally another. Shame its gone so wrong for him, really miss the happy Lappi, tired of the unhappy one.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Also strange Lappi thinking his 'move to Citroen was a mistake'.
I thought he was unhappy at Toyota and moved more because of that, not because he thought the C3 was a better car.

As for contracts, they dont tie a driver to a Team, rather the other way around....
I doubt Citroen wouldnt stand in Lappi's way of he chose to move.

[mknight]

Also strange Lappi thinking his 'move to Citroen was a mistake'.
I thought he was unhappy at Toyota and moved more because of that, not because he thought the C3 was a better car.


The way the rumors went here it was more like Tommi and him had some disagreements.

[Allez Andruet]

The word around the virtual Finnish service park is that it was indeed more because of some chemistry issues between different individuals than the car itself. And I have no inside information whatsoever, so it can all be #fakenews as well, but that's how I understood it.

[racerx1979]

Lappi had issues with "someone" on the team. Not any of the drivers, but someone overseeing things...

[Allez Andruet]

Lappi had issues with "someone" on the team. Not any of the drivers, but someone overseeing things...

Too bad no-one could tell who it was.

1805

Note: picture was randomly chosen and has nothing to do with the subject.

[mknight]

I think I heard Kaj L.

[masa90]

I just hope that no silly stuff like personal relationships would ruin such a promising career. Let's see, moving to Citroen has not gone well sofar.

[EstWRC]

according to this clip Ogier drives in two different teams this year ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KeAH4hYVJE

[tomhlord]

That's a complete mess from Citroen. This aero update has been talked about form start of the year, they they miss the date for the rally it should be of most advantage.

Seems that way. In the pre-Monte tests, we saw a really different aero kit, then it disappeared. Perhaps it wasn't effective and they start again?

Worryingly, I can't see them sticking around after 2020 if the team doesn't turn things around.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Also wasnt it the case that Lappi was signed to Citroen before they had signed Ogier ? So Lappi may also have thought he could be the Team's no.1.

But whatever, it too late for him to be crying now. The C3 had well-known problems before he.joined.

[er88]

Problem with the c3 is it's fundamentally flawed. After 3 years I don't think that's unfair to say.

You work hard to improve one area of weakness and it effects something else - they worked so hard on gravel for years that now this season they were totally lost on tarmac in corsica. It's a sorry state of affairs but goes back to Matton's poor management and too many risks made in the design and development of the C3. Since then Citroen have been playing catch up ever since...



Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

[deephouse]

And yet they have most successful rank in titles in world stage. They are in game so long that there's no excuses to make a superb car from beginning. How could M-Sport do it without any serious budget?

[wrc2017]

And yet they have most successful rank in titles in world stage. They are in game so long that there's no excuses to make a superb car from beginning. How could M-Sport do it without any serious budget?
They were the best of a 'OK' bunch. Toyota, Volkswagen are a different level of budget and engineering.

[deephouse]

I don' think that Xsara, C4 and DS3 was worst cars out there. I don't say C3 is bad, but in two years they could find a solution with their knowledge and experience. They are in this sport for many years.

And Toyota with big budget (also Hyundai) have big problems. Maybe that's a good thing so events are a more unpredictable and not dominant like in VW years. Well they have another story. If Ford, Hyundai and Citroen would be even back then I don't think that they would have so much wins and titles. Citroen didn't give a shit anymore with their programme, drivers and a car was out of date. Ford didn't have a budget since Ford pull out and car was old. Hyundai just start. So what real competition did VW have?

Now Citroen seems that they also don't care much about their development, even we don't know if they will be next year in championship. M-Sport is trying to catch up and are doing a pretty good. Well Hyundai and Toyota have their own battles. Hyundai with drivers and Toyota with reliability (and Latvala).

[mknight]

In terms of reliability C3 is clearly the best of the 4 cars atm. It was also the only one that didn't have cooling issues in Mexico from the start (took Toyota 2 years to fix).

In terms of performance the issue imo is that it lost basically a year or more just fixing issues while others have kept improving.

[OHL]

I don' think that Xsara, C4 and DS3 was worst cars out there. I don't say C3 is bad, but in two years they could find a solution with their knowledge and experience. They are in this sport for many years.

And Toyota with big budget (also Hyundai) have big problems. Maybe that's a good thing so events are a more unpredictable and not dominant like in VW years. Well they have another story. If Ford, Hyundai and Citroen would be even back then I don't think that they would have so much wins and titles. Citroen didn't give a shit anymore with their programme, drivers and a car was out of date. Ford didn't have a budget since Ford pull out and car was old. Hyundai just start. So what real competition did VW have?

Now Citroen seems that they also don't care much about their development, even we don't know if they will be next year in championship. M-Sport is trying to catch up and are doing a pretty good. Well Hyundai and Toyota have their own battles. Hyundai with drivers and Toyota with reliability (and Latvala).

To VW's credit, they did a hard job very, very well and made it look easy.
Their planning and execution were near perfect.
They had good facilities and background knowledge of motorsport from years of Dakar.
They ran the team (people & equipment) for one year as an S2000 team before they started with the WRC car.
They tested the car for a long time, all over the world, and arrived with a car that was ready and very, very capable. (They bypassed cooling issues in Mexico because they went there and tested, tested, tested BEFORE they entered the championship)
Anyone else could have also entered the sport in the same way, but no one in recent history has. VW achieved what they did through a lot of hard work and a clever strategy that gave them a maximum head start. They then capitalized on that with good organisation, clever engineering and a good budget.

[Barreis]

I don' think that Xsara, C4 and DS3 was worst cars out there. I don't say C3 is bad, but in two years they could find a solution with their knowledge and experience. They are in this sport for many years.

And Toyota with big budget (also Hyundai) have big problems. Maybe that's a good thing so events are a more unpredictable and not dominant like in VW years. Well they have another story. If Ford, Hyundai and Citroen would be even back then I don't think that they would have so much wins and titles. Citroen didn't give a shit anymore with their programme, drivers and a car was out of date. Ford didn't have a budget since Ford pull out and car was old. Hyundai just start. So what real competition did VW have?

Now Citroen seems that they also don't care much about their development, even we don't know if they will be next year in championship. M-Sport is trying to catch up and are doing a pretty good. Well Hyundai and Toyota have their own battles. Hyundai with drivers and Toyota with reliability (and Latvala).

it's all about the money and investments. with the right management, of course. it just pays off. that's it.

[wia5958]

In terms of reliability C3 is clearly the best of the 4 cars atm. It was also the only one that didn't have cooling issues in Mexico from the start (took Toyota 2 years to fix).

In terms of performance the issue imo is that it lost basically a year or more just fixing issues while others have kept improving.

And still doesn't have them fixed while the others are still improving

[doubled1978]

They seem to have bounced from losing faith in one department to another in looking for the failings of the car & team.
They lost trust in Meeke, then the engineers/designers and followed that up with the management. Only now do they have a recognised championship contender driving the car to eliminate at least that doubt, Meeke was fast but erratic, so for engineers it was easy to point the finger. In honesty they probably lost most of 2017 blaming him when the car wasn’t working.
It does look like they are now pulling the right way, but I have to say it looks like progress is slow from the outside...

[denkimi]

To VW's credit, they did a hard job very, very well and made it look easy.
Their planning and execution were near perfect.
They had good facilities and background knowledge of motorsport from years of Dakar.
They ran the team (people & equipment) for one year as an S2000 team before they started with the WRC car.
They tested the car for a long time, all over the world, and arrived with a car that was ready and very, very capable. (They bypassed cooling issues in Mexico because they went there and tested, tested, tested BEFORE they entered the championship)
Anyone else could have also entered the sport in the same way, but no one in recent history has. VW achieved what they did through a lot of hard work and a clever strategy that gave them a maximum head start. They then capitalized on that with good organisation, clever engineering and a good budget.
Most importantly they hired ogier and loeb retired.

Without ogier they would have won 2 drivers titles with latvala, but hyundai also would have won 2 with neuville.

[OHL]

They seem to have bounced from losing faith in one department to another in looking for the failings of the car & team.
They lost trust in Meeke, then the engineers/designers and followed that up with the management. Only now do they have a recognised championship contender driving the car to eliminate at least that doubt, Meeke was fast but erratic, so for engineers it was easy to point the finger. In honesty they probably lost most of 2017 blaming him when the car wasn’t working.
It does look like they are now pulling the right way, but I have to say it looks like progress is slow from the outside...


And all of this coupled with Mads statements about the R5 car and its shortcomings for Finland have Citroen with a pretty full plate. Especially concerning aero. They have been one of the most conservative in this area and it's not clear why. We know from statements by VW that they also did not think aero would be as important as it has proven to be. It's possible Citroen have their hands so full with just getting the car up to par that they have no time / Jokers left to fundamentally develop it.

[OHL]

Most importantly they hired ogier and loeb retired.

Without ogier they would have won 2 drivers titles with latvala, but hyundai also would have won 2 with neuville.

Maybe, we'll never know.
Ogier was an unproven nobody at that time. A brave choice that payed off but it's not WHY they won 4 in a row.

[mknight]

Most importantly they hired ogier and loeb retired.

Without ogier they would have won 2 drivers titles with latvala, but hyundai also would have won 2 with neuville.

Nitpick:
In 2013 Neuville was 2nd in a Fiesta.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

On this weeks AR podcast Latvala confirmed the Polo was built around Ogier and it took him a long time to adapt to driving it.

He also said he has big respect for Ogier who was always very fair.

I think if Ogier cant get the C3 right, no-one can. If Citroen dont/cant then they've wasted their money employing him.

[mknight]

I think if Ogier cant get the C3 right, no-one can. If Citroen dont/cant then they've wasted their money employing him.

With regards to Ogier "getting C3 right".. he was leading the championship going to Sardinia and now is just a bit behind. Doesn't look like a waste of money to me. Anyway we should all be happy he isn't 40 points ahead ;)

Also related saga is the i20 on tarmac, now Loeb has two extra rallies (2nd this weekend) to try to make it work, we'll see how that goes.

[EstWRC]

Since there’s no news a little something https://t.co/g7FdBu2Ds5

[mknight]

I don't get why he puts Tanak at Hyundai over MSport.

Sure Msport probably doesn't offer much money, but he knows the car, the car has proved that it's fast (Sardinia, Corsica, Sweden, especially Corsica was pretty impressive, might have been even faster than Yaris).

On the other had Hyundai does struggle on a few rallies still (Finland we'll see in two weeks though, tarmac in mid-august) and there now is quite a history of drivers coming in and struggling with the car at times. While he might not make much of Mikkelsen struggling he surely noticed Loeb compared to his C3 time. Last but not least I don't think he would want to be in the same team with Neuville, especially since Adamo might start prioritizing one of them for drivers title very early.... and in the early part of a season Neuville will likely do better since he knows the car much more.

[denkimi]

Maybe, we'll never know.
Ogier was an unproven nobody at that time. A brave choice that payed off but it's not WHY they won 4 in a row.
I assume you were not yet following rally in those years?

Ogier was back then already the man who was able to challenge loeb in the same car. He won 5 wrc rallies in 2011 alone, the same as maestro loeb that year. The same amount as latvala in his whole career up to that point.


On this weeks AR podcast Latvala confirmed the Polo was built around Ogier and it took him a long time to adapt to driving it.

He also said he has big respect for Ogier who was always very fair.
Latvala always has the same stupid excuses. After 15 years in the wrc he still claims he has to learn how to drive or he has to find the right settings.

[doubled1978]

G
And all of this coupled with Mads statements about the R5 car and its shortcomings for Finland have Citroen with a pretty full plate. Especially concerning aero. They have been one of the most conservative in this area and it's not clear why. We know from statements by VW that they also did not think aero would be as important as it has proven to be. It's possible Citroen have their hands so full with just getting the car up to par that they have no time / Jokers left to fundamentally develop it.

Yes true, that was a slightly odd statement from Ostberg, they could have just not entered and said it wasn’t in the plan to go...

[dimviii]

Takamoto Katsuta
���� 勝田 貴元
‏ @TakamotoKatsuta
47m47 minutes ago

Takamoto Katsuta

���� 勝田 貴元

New announcement for 2019 season.
We will compete in Central Rally Aichi/Gifu 2019 with YarisWRC.

[Portimao]

Obviously Katsuta is Japanese, but I really don't like Toyota placing him in Yaris more often. It's not his time yet.

[dimviii]

Rally Japan confirmed
http://wrc-jpn.com/common/data/RallyJapan19-001.pdf

[mknight]

They are not saying who will drive the i20....right before Australia.

Probably depends what championships are decided, but there is surely some deadline for entries.

Either case Neuville is unlikely. They'd probably want Loeb, but since he is so negative about traveling and time I doubt he wants to fly 20 hours to Japan. Sordo is imo most likely, also since he probably isn't doing Australia. For Mikkelsen there are way too many unknowns (will he drive tarmac in Germany or Spain (and will he do well?), is he going to stay with the team?).

[AMSS]

In this Q&A Lappi gives the answers to alot of questions about Citroen aero updates etc. that have been discussed here.

https://www.nesterallyfinland.fi/en/info/uutiset/esapekka-lappi-q-a/

[EstWRC]

In this Q&A Lappi gives the answers to alto of questions about Citroen aeroa updates etc. that have been discussed here.

https://www.nesterallyfinland.fi/en/info/uutiset/esapekka-lappi-q-a/

He is saying next year! wow

[dimviii]

In this Q&A Lappi gives the answers to alto of questions about Citroen aeroa updates etc. that have been discussed here.

https://www.nesterallyfinland.fi/en/info/uutiset/esapekka-lappi-q-a/

Question: Have you found any solutions?

- In Portugal we went ahead. Maybe we had new parts then, but I wasn't told.

[mknight]

Weird interview for many reasons.

[er88]

Did not know Citroen had used all their jokers for new parts this year already? To wait until next year for new aero and other improvements is a huge blow for Lappi and Ogier (in his title fight).

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

[er88]

For Mikkelsen there are way too many unknowns (will he drive tarmac in Germany or Spain (and will he do well?), is he going to stay with the team?).

If current plans stay the same Mikkelsen won't be doing Spain (Neuville, Sordo, Loeb). Only way he does it is if Hyundai decide to bring 4 cars for whatever reason (getting desperate in both championships etc). But then that has it's own issues as we've seen previously.

Presume Mikkelsen will be in Germany unless Adamo doesn't want him anywhere near the i20 on tarmac, and chucks Breen into the deep end (surely unlikely?)


Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

[Fredouye]

Did not know Citroen had used all their jokers for new parts this year already? To wait until next year for new aero and other improvements is a huge blow for Lappi and Ogier (in his title fight).

Sent from my SM-A705FN using TapatalkOgier told in this week's Auto-Hebdo that the engine will have upgraded parts in Germany.

[AnttiL]

Question: Have you found any solutions?

- In Portugal we went ahead. Maybe we had new parts then, but I wasn't told.

In the Neste Rally podcast he says the same like ”I wanted certain parts (diffs) and found out in Portugal we had them homologated all along, nobody just told me”

[mknight]

Ogier told in this week's Auto-Hebdo that the engine will have upgraded parts in Germany.

And he told D. Evans on Sardinia that they have upgrades for gravel coming.

But now Lappi says they have no more jokers...

The only way that makes sense is that they have no jokers for aero since they already planned what they want to use them on.

[AnttiL]

Lappi also says in the podcast that they’re already thinking for next year. Both because the year has gone so bad for him but also that the required parts cannot be homologated before that.

[mknight]

If current plans stay the same Mikkelsen won't be doing Spain (Neuville, Sordo, Loeb)...

Presume Mikkelsen will be in Germany unless Adamo doesn't want him anywhere near the i20 on tarmac, and chucks Breen into the deep end (surely unlikely?)


Yes Mikkelsen will likely do Germany and not Spain. Which is actually weird in its own way since Loeb is now doing 2 tarmac rallies.

Funny how Adamo just now said it's strange Loeb struggles with i20 on tarmac... after Mikkelsen went from 2nd place on tarmac to last WRC speed the year before.

Loeb went from winning a rally to 2nd last WRC (only Lappi was slower) and basically his worst tarmac rally in terms of pace since he started driving in WRC.

Surely Breen who afaik doesn't have a single tarmac podium can't be expected to shine in I20 when he was 5-7th in C3 on same surface and the other two have 1st and 2nd. But hey Adamo can make some weird decisions (latest being Breen instead of Paddon in Finland).

[T16]

They are not saying who will drive the i20....right before Australia.

Probably depends what championships are decided, but there is surely some deadline for entries.

Either case Neuville is unlikely. They'd probably want Loeb, but since he is so negative about traveling and time I doubt he wants to fly 20 hours to Japan. Sordo is imo most likely, also since he probably isn't doing Australia. For Mikkelsen there are way too many unknowns (will he drive tarmac in Germany or Spain (and will he do well?), is he going to stay with the team?).


Am I missing something / misreading what you have posted?

Why is it unlikely that Neville drives in Aus?

Cheers.

[mknight]

Am I missing something / misreading what you have posted?

Why is it unlikely that Neville drives in Aus?

Cheers.

Rally Japan candidate WRC event announced there will be 2 manu cars, a Yaris (driven by Katsuta) and an i20 without naming the driver.

The event is the weekend before Australia, which is why I think it's unlikely that Neuville drives cause he will be important in Australia no matter what title they are fighting for.

Sorry if that point wasn't clear.

[Fredouye]

Monte 2020 route
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190724/e90cf47fd80de9df1acf36064432ee8a.jpg

[Portimao]

305 kilometers only

[AnttiL]

Last year’s new SS1 and SS2 thrown into Saturday and Friday. SS1 new(?), SS2 wasn’t used last year. Curbans stage lenghtened/modified from last year.

[T16]

Rally Japan candidate WRC event announced there will be 2 manu cars, a Yaris (driven by Katsuta) and an i20 without naming the driver.

The event is the weekend before Australia, which is why I think it's unlikely that Neuville drives cause he will be important in Australia no matter what title they are fighting for.

Sorry if that point wasn't clear.

No, sorry, I didn’t realise you were talking about Japan.

[the sniper]

DMACK Global (renamed Sinon UK at the end of last year) has gone into Administration in the UK, owing nearly £10m to M-Sport/Malcolm Wilson. Other noteworthy creditors include Skoda Motorsport Italia (£44k) and DMACK SRL (£535k), the Italian operation Dick Cormack is running with...

Administrator's report is the latest addition here: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07673494/filing-history Creditors on page 27.

Thanks to 'pear' on the British Rally forum who posted this news there.

[steve.mandzij]

DMACK Global (renamed Sinon UK at the end of last year) has gone into Administration in the UK, owing nearly £10m to M-Sport/Malcolm Wilson. Other noteworthy creditors include Skoda Motorsport Italia (£44k) and DMACK SRL (£535k), the Italian operation Dick Cormack is running with...

Administrator's report is the latest addition here: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07673494/filing-history Creditors on page 27.

Thanks to 'pear' on the British Rally forum who posted this news there.What a shame... They had seemed to have been making progress for a while, but I'd always wondered where all their sponsorship money came from.

[Allez Andruet]

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-10880580

Latvala and Jouhki pondering JML's season and his future in WRC. Latvala admits hitting the low point in Corsica, where he was "lacking motivation" (I just hate to see that excuse being used by a full-time rally driver). JML says that the tight fight in manu championship is what brings him motivation at the moment. Regarding next season, Jouhki says that it's "impossible to know what the Japanese think at the moment", but admits Latvala must start delivering results from Finland onwards.

For me all these things combined don't sound like a receipe for success for Latvala. Hopefully he proves me wrong in Finland.

[EstWRC]

Last year he had a very good second half from Finland onwards, maybe this time too.

but i personally think if he underperforms in Finland, then maybe its goodbye for him.

[mknight]

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-10880580
For me all these things combined don't sound like a receipe for success for Latvala. Hopefully he proves me wrong in Finland.

In the absolute rally podcast last week he sounded like a broken man (well he does that like every 2 months..). Saying how he could have fought for drivers championship in 2014 if he didn't crash in Germany and how he enjoys historic rallies much more cause on normal rallies there is so much pressure and competition.

He really needs a podium in Finland (just like Meeke does). However with Toyota's known Finland advantage it should be possible even with less than perfect driving. Technical issues are not likely there and it's not that often people crash, no big stones or something like that either.

That said there can always be surprises from other teams. Last year nobody really expected Østberg to be that fast in C3. Similarly nobody expected Fiestas to be so fast on Corsica this year.

[er88]

but i personally think if he underperforms in Finland, then maybe its goodbye for him.


From what I've heard he's apparently already out the door at Toyota. Hope that's maybe not the case but if he can get back in at Msport it would maybe be a good reset for him and less pressure...

Other than that I'm not sure what options he'd have.

[mknight]

If Citroen gets 3rd car they will want a stable points scorer, Evans or even Østberg sound more likely, or Mikkelsen if he wants to go that way.

Basically same for Hyundai except Østberg is not likely there.

[Barreis]

he will sell some seats

[steve.mandzij]

From what I've heard he's apparently already out the door at Toyota. Hope that's maybe not the case but if he can get back in at Msport it would maybe be a good reset for him and less pressure...

Other than that I'm not sure what options he'd have.It'd be cool if you could link that, but judging by his own comments and the fact he's relying on the unpredictable Japanese to keep him on for the PR it sounds likely :(

[racerx1979]

JML going to Hyundai to replace Mikkelsen..... just a wild thought.

[Portimao]

I bet JML would struggle with Hyundai, Mikkelsen is at least used to it.

[Zeakiwi2]

Latvala more likely to do a finale season(like Solberg senior) at M-Sport bringing some coin??? 4? cars to help balance the D-Mack problems.

Hyundai have doubled their sales in Norway in 2019 (half year) compared to 2018. Might be keeping AM on the team on that basis.

[Barreis]

Latvala more likely to do a finale season(like Solberg senior) at M-Sport bringing some coin??? 4? cars to help balance the D-Mack problems.

Hyundai have doubled their sales in Norway in 2019 (half year) compared to 2018. Might be keeping AM on the team on that basis.

really doubt that. Adamo wants only results on rallies, nothing else

[Allez Andruet]

JML under the loving leadership of mr. Adamo? Doesn't exactly sound like a match made in heaven.

[pantealex]

Latvala more likely to do a finale season(like Solberg senior) at M-Sport bringing some coin??? 4? cars to help balance the D-Mack problems.

Hyundai have doubled their sales in Norway in 2019 (half year) compared to 2018. Might be keeping AM on the team on that basis.

How about Hyundai sales in NZ ? Did it help Paddon ?

[SubaruNorway]

Latvala more likely to do a finale season(like Solberg senior) at M-Sport bringing some coin??? 4? cars to help balance the D-Mack problems.

Hyundai have doubled their sales in Norway in 2019 (half year) compared to 2018. Might be keeping AM on the team on that basis.

It's because of the electric cars, not much to do with Mikkelsen really. Top 12 most sold cars so far this year in Norway are electric or hybrid.

[mknight]

JML going to Hyundai to replace Mikkelsen..... just a wild thought.

You mean they would replace a driver which doesn't reliably perform with one that is even less reliable?

[Eli]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/sebastien-loeb-plant-den-start-in-deutschland-41488/ Sebastien Loeb might start Rally Deutshcland....

[mknight]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/sebastien-loeb-plant-den-start-in-deutschland-41488/ Sebastien Loeb might start Rally Deutshcland....

This "article" is 100% speculation based just on him starting on the two tarmac rallies.
He himself said multiple times he wants to have holiday in August.
That of course doesn't mean it wont happen.

[Eli]

This "article" is 100% speculation based just on him starting on the two tarmac rallies.
He himself said multiple times he wants to have holiday in August.
That of course doesn't mean it wont happen.

Guess we'll have to wait and see...entries close soon.

[pantealex]

Guess we'll have to wait and see...entries close soon.

Normally entries close 5 weeks before rally, so should be closed already.

[mknight]

Guess we'll have to wait and see...entries close soon.

Sure it might well happen. Just saying that rally magazin often writes pure speculation on the level of CC Kitchen Table or even below. At least autosport (D. Evans) usually has some real sources.

[dimviii]

Stéphane Lefebvre
@SLefebvreRallye

��
After many months of work, I am very happy to announce that Thomas Dubois and I will be attending the Adac Rally Deutschland in 1 month

We will be competing in the WRC2 with a Polo R5 from the BMA team.


I want to thank all our partners!

https://twitter.com/SLefebvreRallye/status/1155025615088750592


from his facebook some more

After many months of work, I am very happy to announce that Thomas Dubois and I will be attending the Adac Rally Deutschland in 1 month.

We will be competing in the WRC2 with a Polo R5 from the BMA team.
I would like to thank all our partners as well as the BMA team for having worked so hard so that we can be at the start of this rally.
Thanks also to Pirelli for trusting us and allowing us to make this project a reality.
I can not wait to discover this car on the roads that I particularly like!

[Allez Andruet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnKqTW7oR2I

News clip from Finnish TV about Latvala's PET session for Finland. For the non-Finns, just click the subtitles on to find out what they're saying.

[EstWRC]

Anyone having full access to this ? https://rallysportmag.com/toyota-steering-into-the-second-half-of-the-season/

[Portimao]

Finn mates, anyone what is this about?

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-10894549

[Allez Andruet]

Finn mates, anyone what is this about?

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-10894549

I can translate it later today but the main points what Lappi says:

- C3 feels better on Finnish roads than it does in many other places

- Overall they're behind other teams

- The Citroen mechanics have taught EP some chosen words of French, but he can't say those on Finnish national TV

[janvanvurpa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnKqTW7oR2I

News clip from Finnish TV about Latvala's PET session for Finland. For the non-Finns, just click the subtitles on to find out what they're saying.


No subtitles to click on, just Finnish and nobody can understand that..
I assert that you guys really don't understand it either..
I contend it is impossible to learn..Otherwise I would have learned some the amount I have heard in 40 years..
I can't and that means it cannot be possible...

Why aren't there subtitles in that other National Language which at least a few people can understand???

[Allez Andruet]

No subtitles to click on, just Finnish and nobody can understand that..
Why aren't there subtitles in that other National Language which at least a few people can understand???

Just click on "Finnish", I bet you'll understand ;)

[AnttiL]

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-10895217

Suninen has had a "secret test", most likely for another WRC team.

[Allez Andruet]

Suninen has had a "secret test", most likely for another WRC team.

Around Puuppola area maybe?

[mknight]

Weird.
Toyota would be most likely based on location, but why would they need to try either him or the car? Car is "overtested" in Finland and for drivers they have both Rovanpera and Katsuta "on the way". Maybe Joukhi would try to swap him for Latvala but still unlikely.

Citroen could be interested for next year, but I'd think if they go for 3rd car they would want some reliable points scorer to complement "unstable" Lappi. Think they have enough car feedback from Ogier who also drove Fiesta for 2 years.

Hyundai now have feedback from many drivers in the car, most recent with Breen so why waste test days on this. Could be to test him for a seat next year, even though I'd expect them to prefer Evans for stable points.

[Rallyper]

Paddon off road on Finland PET minutes ago... (?)

[mousti]

Paddon off road on Finland PET minutes ago... (?)Yes..

https://www.facebook.com/742431402589063/posts/1382536945245169/

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ONEPLUS A6013 met Tapatalk

[rallye-vid]

Holy s***

[Fredouye]

It's a shame he signed "top late" and had to use his race car.

[dimviii]

oh my God,a big one! pitty it would be interesting to see his pace.

https://scontent.fath3-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67819060_3149918041685842_6963570724866883584_n.jp g?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQmzml_E27GmyTf_EJ-h8gBYyD-uNqQBr52iqxa9JB5dwUIi75yqVTzwYEm-rjsjQbo&_nc_ht=scontent.fath3-3.fna&oh=27e175e2683b30d7f4c450bbea210da3&oe=5DA5835B

[Allez Andruet]

Weird.
Toyota would be most likely based on location, but why would they need to try either him or the car? Car is "overtested" in Finland and for drivers they have both Rovanpera and Katsuta "on the way". Maybe Joukhi would try to swap him for Latvala but still unlikely.

Based on the way Mäkinen has talked about Suninen in the past, he has a serious crush on him.

[mknight]

Based on the way Mäkinen has talked about Suninen in the past, he has a serious crush on him.
Might be possible then, switching Latvala for Suninen with Msport.

[racerx1979]

Very likely a Yaris due to his close connections with a few high ups at TGR. I can see it as a test for different reasons. Suninen to TGR and Rovanpera to MSport?

Or it could be a test with Hyundai :).

Let the silly season begin!!

[mknight]

I don't think Suninen at Toyota would keep Kalle from driving selected rounds there. If both Latvala and Meeke leave they both could drive full season as well.

[Fredouye]

Craig Breen could get further WRC outings with Hyundai : https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/145095/breen-could-get-further-wrc-outings-with-hyundai

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Craig Breen could get further WRC outings with Hyundai : https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/145095/breen-could-get-further-wrc-outings-with-hyundai

Great news. :)

And Adamo sounds like he's reaching the end of his patience with Mikkelsen ! :D

[AnttiL]

"In Sardinia he was talking about [Ott] Tanak. I said: 'Fucking hell! He has to go to pee just like you! What do you want me to say? Toyota is faster, OK so now we pack up and we go home?'

"No. We have to fight and we will fucking fight."

:D

[skarderud]

Great news. :)

And Adamo sounds like he's reaching the end of his patience with Mikkelsen ! :DThen its probably done deal with Mikkelsen for next season, M-sport?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[mknight]

1) The part about GB and Turkey is no real news. It's basically logical thinking just like everyone does here. We have been discussing they need another driver instead of Sordo on the 3 rallies for last 2 months or so. But Paddon looked like the most likely candidate.

Sordo didn't drive any of those rallies last year and has always been terrible in GB, Breen had his second best results with 4th there last year. So that's pretty much 100% sure pick. Turkey is a bit more uncertain but as mentioned Sordo didn't start there last year. (Mikkelsen led by 40s ahead of Tanak when dif/driveshaft broke due to mechanics making a mistake in service). In a way Australia could be seem even more likely for Breen since Sordo didn't start there last 2 years (so never with 2017 cars), but his results weren't too bad there before.


2) The part about Mikkelsen seems a bit out of place in the article as in none of the 3 gravel rallies Mikkelsen is likely to be benched, that is much more likely in Spain and/or Germany. Which also the reference to Corsica suggests. Note that both time Mikkelsen was benched Loeb got 0 manu points, had poor pace and managed to crash as well (I'd argue Sordo replaced Mikkelsen in Corsica though, not Loeb).

Anyway Mikkelsen would not want to drive at Hyundai if they will only offer part-season. Breen will easily accept full season, question is how good he really is in other car than C3. Evans is still more likely imo but he certainly won't accept part-season deal.

[Allez Andruet]

Then its probably done deal with Mikkelsen for next season, M-sport?

I'm doubtful that M-Sport would run Mikkelsen for free. And equally doubtful that EVEN is willing to pay them for a drive.

[mknight]

I'm doubtful that M-Sport would run Mikkelsen for free. And equally doubtful that EVEN is willing to pay them for a drive.

Evans supposedly gets paid. If he leaves and they don't get Tanak they will be interested in at least one "top" driver (previous winner) that they will pay something. It could be Latvala, Mikkelsen or Meeke. IMO in about that order of probability.

Might be that even Suninen leaves making it even more likely, or both Suninen and Evans leave and they put all money on Tanak.

[er88]

I'm doubtful that M-Sport would run Mikkelsen for free. And equally doubtful that EVEN is willing to pay them for a drive.Mikkelsen could maybe find a bit of money through sponsorship. I believe his daddies money is no more though?

As for Msport paying, they were willing to run and pay Meeke this year so you never know. But it again depends on whether Malcolm was serious when he said he wanted a driver to challenge for the title or nothing - kind of hinting it's Tanak or nobody else for next year (or just paying drivers - Latvala/ Mikkelsen might be able to bring some money from somewhere).

[skarderud]

But, if drivers like Latvala/Mikkelsen/Meeke has to pay to get a drive, WRC of today is fu..ed.
Drive for free, or with low salary with bonus after good results is one thing, pay to drive is for gentlemen drivers, and noone of those 3 can by any means be named that.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Tarmop]

Two of them are quite old already, all have been there for a while. There are more men, younger and maybe faster, who also need a drive. Places are counted. Wrose is, if those young men can`t get behind the wheel or need to pay for it.

[Allez Andruet]

But, if drivers like Latvala/Mikkelsen/Meeke has to pay to get a drive, WRC of today is fu..ed.
To get a drive from M-Sport that is.

[skarderud]

Something new from EVEN managment?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190731/bb53e44dfbedfd29ba3efce0996e0e6f.jpg

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[mknight]

To get a drive from M-Sport that is.

Evans is supposedly getting decent salary even after a disastrous last year with two podiums and then just 5th or worse places.

Surely even MSport will pay at least one driver. But if they pay Tanak they would get cheap/paying drivers to complement him.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

There's too many driver's and not enough WRC seats. Only the very best can expect a good salary from a team, especially a non-Full Manufacturer team like M-Sport.

They will only pay big for a title contender, like MW did with Ogier

The likes of Latvala has made a good living for years. He could afford to drive for an average wage if he still wants a seat. Ditto Sordo and even Meeke.
.

[mknight]

Neuville will drive a race in i30 TCR a week before Rally Deutschland.

https://twitter.com/HMSGOfficial/status/1156550124627271680

[dimviii]

rip Jean-Luc Thérier

https://static.actu.fr/uploads/2019/07/Photos-8-854x580.jpg

[Rally Power]

rip Jean-Luc Thérier

Sad news. Hearing his 911 coming from the forest and seing it arriving on a big slide is one of the moments that made me addicted to rally. One of the best of his generation, even if still not properly recognized outside France. Thanks Mr. Thérier. RIP.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier confirms he will retire at the end of 2020...

"My career will stop at the end of 2020 at Citroën ," he says. After, I'll want to move on. To be more at home, to be the best father possible, to be more present with my son. And projects of reconversion, there can be plenty. Resume studies of economics, ecology also touches me even if I play sports car for years. I am sensitive to the fate of the planet. Golf also, I started a short time ago, and it's addictive ... And also certainly still a little sport self, but less restrictive than today. "

https://www.lequipe.fr/Rallye/Actualites/Sebastien-ogier-confirme-la-fin-de-sa-carriere-en-2020/1045223

[PLuto]

Ogier confirms he will retire at the end of 2020...

"My career will stop at the end of 2020 at Citroën ," he says. After, I'll want to move on. To be more at home, to be the best father possible, to be more present with my son. And projects of reconversion, there can be plenty. Resume studies of economics, ecology also touches me even if I play sports car for years. I am sensitive to the fate of the planet. Golf also, I started a short time ago, and it's addictive ... And also certainly still a little sport self, but less restrictive than today. "

https://www.lequipe.fr/Rallye/Actualites/Sebastien-ogier-confirme-la-fin-de-sa-carriere-en-2020/1045223

I understand, in rally he achieved also everything, next step will be to be champion in golf :-)

[denkimi]

If he wins 2 more championships and things go well, i don't see him retiring just before matching loeb's record.

[KKS]

Something new from EVEN managment?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190731/bb53e44dfbedfd29ba3efce0996e0e6f.jpg

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk
Is that Hyundai WRC just for good looking picture, or..... first private Hyundai WRC team? O_o

[skarderud]

Is that Hyundai WRC just for good looking picture, or..... first private Hyundai WRC team? O_oMaybe, it is Veiby, Lappi and Mikkelsen as rallydrivers in EVEN these days. kristofferson is multi, pontus is out?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

Like it says on the bottom line: five step development program. Something they sell for young drivers.

[mknight]

I thought it would be something with Kristofferson and/or Solberg.

[tomhlord]

Like it says on the bottom line: five step development program. Something they sell for young drivers.

Yup.

[mknight]

R. Millner said on allive that it's not sure yet that Evans will be able to start in Germany.

[Fredouye]

French (well, Corsican in fact) newspaper announces that Corsica won't be part of the calendar next year. Kenya should take place in march/april, and Japan in november.

https://www.corsematin.com/article/derniere-minute/rallye-pas-de-tour-de-corse-wrc-en-2020

[steve.mandzij]

French (well, Corsican in fact) newspaper announces that Corsica won't be part of the calendar next year. Kenya should take place in march/april, and Japan in november.

https://www.corsematin.com/article/derniere-minute/rallye-pas-de-tour-de-corse-wrc-en-2020Good riddance, I guess.

[Andre Oliveira]

So,

Monte-Carlo in January
Sweden in February
Mexico in March
Kenya in April
Argentina in April
Chile in May
Portugal in May
Italy in June
Finland in August
Germany in August
Turkey in September
GB in October
Spain in October
Japan in November
Australia in November???

[Zeakiwi2]

Sad news. Hearing his 911 coming from the forest and seing it arriving on a big slide is one of the moments that made me addicted to rally. One of the best of his generation, even if still not properly recognized outside France. Thanks Mr. Thérier. RIP.

5 wrc wins
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Luc_Th%C3%A9rier

[er88]

So,

Monte-Carlo in January
Sweden in February
Mexico in March
Kenya in April
Argentina in April
Chile in May
Portugal in May
Italy in June
Finland in August
Germany in August
Turkey in September
GB in October
Spain in October
Japan in November
Australia in November???No Germany

[KKS]

So only two 'mixed-tarmac' surface events in a year, and zero pure tarmac :( it sad

[lnvs]

Japan should be pure tarmac right?

[KKS]

Japan should be pure tarmac right?
Oh, yep. Have an association from past days as it was gravel event. But Corsica was good event, shame :/

[rallyfiend]

Spain will be full tarmac. Mixed surface events have been banned.

[rallyfiend]

So,

Monte-Carlo in January
Sweden in February
Mexico in March
Kenya in April
Argentina in April
Chile in May
Portugal in May
Italy in June
Finland in August
Germany in August
Turkey in September
GB in October
Spain in October
Japan in November
Australia in November???

Kenya will not be possible in that slot.

The seafreight will not be able to move like that.

And Australia and Japan will need to be more separate as well.

[Eli]

So,

Monte-Carlo in January
Sweden in February
Mexico in March
Kenya in April
Argentina in April
Chile in May
Portugal in May
Italy in June
Finland in August
Germany in August
Turkey in September
GB in October
Spain in October
Japan in November
Australia in November???

I think I saw on Motorsport Monday that Australia will run at the end of August.

[Eli]

French (well, Corsican in fact) newspaper announces that Corsica won't be part of the calendar next year. Kenya should take place in march/april, and Japan in november.

https://www.corsematin.com/article/derniere-minute/rallye-pas-de-tour-de-corse-wrc-en-2020

They do plan to come back at 2021, well when I say they I mean mainland France, not Corsica.

[wia5958]

So only two 'mixed-tarmac' surface events in a year, and zero pure tarmac :( it sad
If GB is in northern Ireland it will be tarmac as well

[Fredouye]

https://www.lequipe.fr/Sport-auto/Actualites/Le-tour-de-corse-absent-du-calendrier-wrc-en-2020/1045567

According to L'Equipe :
- still 14 events next year
- Turkey not sure to be part of the calendar
- only 8 events in Europe, instead of 10 for now
- principle of alternance between "some" european events (no Corsica or Germany in 2020)

[er88]

Listening to Malcolm it sounds bleak for Evans. Germany looking unlikely and possibly Turkey too

[stefanvv]

Listening to Malcolm it sounds bleak for Evans. Germany looking unlikely and possibly Turkey too

It doesn't sound optimistic. Hopefully it's just too cautious for the current championship state than anything else.

[Winner]

It doesn't sound optimistic. Hopefully it's just too cautious for the current championship state than anything else.

Could we see Rovanpera take up the seat???

[er88]

Could we see Rovanpera take up the seat???Paddon has a chance imo (especially for Turkey)

[stefanvv]

Could we see Rovanpera take up the seat???

That sounds like a favor for TGR.

[Winner]

Paddon has a chance imo (especially for Turkey)

Paddon will need to bring a budget to get the seat.

[Portimao]

Paddon will need to bring a budget to get the seat.

Not really. He can simply take Evans seat just like Greensmith now in Finland.

[Tarmop]

ADAC is before Turkey. It`s tarmac. Paddon doesn`t like tarmac.