[WRC] News & Rumours 2019 [Archive] - Page 10

Rallyper

18th June 2019, 08:46

So it is the first rally this season that none of our leading trio for the championship made it to the podium. As a result it is the lowest combined score (25 points), the second lowest was Sweden (51 points).

The gap between the top 3 went from 10 points after Portugal to 7. (smallest gap so far this season was 5 points after Corsica).

Once again, there may be one man faster out there, but from a championship point of view, it is still anyone's to take.

Enjoy the summer folks, see you in Finland.

Agree. So you are going to visit NRF then...?

spiderem

18th June 2019, 15:20

Agree. So you are going to visit NRF then...?

I wish but it's too far from west coast of Canada unfortunately. Hopefully when I move back to Europe then I can visit NRF (amongst other rallys which are on my bucket list). For now it's WRC+ / tweeter and this forum!

Rallyper

18th June 2019, 16:25

I wish but it's too far from west coast of Canada unfortunately. Hopefully when I move back to Europe then I can visit NRF (amongst other rallys which are on my bucket list). For now it's WRC+ / tweeter and this forum!

Aaah. Of course you are with us anyway! :)

Barreis

18th June 2019, 16:39

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/144210

mknight

18th June 2019, 20:32

4-5th in Finland with Sordo in Hyundai is extremely optimistic. Paddon barely managed 4th last year and even he needed Lappi to crash out to get it.

In fact unless the announced upgrade comes and drastically improves the car in Finland I'd say 4th is a dream result there no matter the driver.

GravelBen

18th June 2019, 23:29

Paddon barely managed 4th last year and even he needed Lappi to crash out to get it.

Your revisionist description of history is quite funny.

"barely managed 4th" = held 4th for most of the rally despite brake problems on saturday and not taking risks because Neuville and Mikkelsen were both well out of contention and the team needed points. Had about 40 seconds margin over Ogier at the end.

"needed Lappi to crash out to get it" = Lappi did have a big charge late saturday to catch Paddon who was 'taking it easy' (his words), but couldn't sustain that pace without crashing.

The Hyundai does seem to struggle there, I don't disagree with that. But there is no need to try and twist history to make an argument.

wrc2017

19th June 2019, 00:42

But there is no need to try and twist history to make an argument.

This seems to be his party trick.

cali

19th June 2019, 04:54

Your revisionist description of history is quite funny.

"barely managed 4th" = held 4th for most of the rally despite brake problems on saturday and not taking risks because Neuville and Mikkelsen were both well out of contention and the team needed points. Had about 40 seconds margin over Ogier at the end.

"needed Lappi to crash out to get it" = Lappi did have a big charge late saturday to catch Paddon who was 'taking it easy' (his words), but couldn't sustain that pace without crashing.

The Hyundai does seem to struggle there, I don't disagree with that. But there is no need to try and twist history to make an argument.That's what he does here, don't even bother to read his long out of reality blabberings anymore

Andre Oliveira

19th June 2019, 10:59

Eric Camilli in C3 WRC? Please yes!

https://www.rallyssimo.it/2019/06/19/eric-camilli-testera-la-citroen-c3-wrc/

deephouse

19th June 2019, 13:14

Eric Camilli in C3 WRC? Please yes!

https://www.rallyssimo.it/2019/06/19/eric-camilli-testera-la-citroen-c3-wrc/

Why? He is nobody. Ostberg who is by the way clearly better driver in any way is sitting in lower class car.

the sniper

19th June 2019, 13:54

Why? He is nobody. Ostberg who is by the way clearly better driver in any way is sitting in lower class car.

I'd far rather have a half decent young 'nobody' than literally nobody in a third C3 WRC, which would probably otherwise be the case...

deephouse

19th June 2019, 14:24

I'd far rather have a half decent young 'nobody' than literally nobody in a third C3 WRC, which would probably otherwise be the case...

He had his chance. Blew with top WRC machine at M-Sport, had the chance with weaker machine R5 again in M-Sport, blew it away. He had a go with Polo in VW colors and still not acomplish anything. And they are by the way the same age.

Tarmop

19th June 2019, 14:27

Too young and unexperienced for WRC indeed at that time, but what did he blow away in WRC2 exactly?

M-Sport R5 season 2017: 11 starts, 2 wins+ 4 podiums, 2 4th places...an some technical issues an mistakes while driving in podium places.

Polo outings: A) RACC SS11 stopped from 2. place- gearshift issue ; B) Corsica SS12 Castagniccia 2 (47.18 km) Fire, car burn out

mknight

19th June 2019, 15:24

Your revisionist description of history is quite funny.

"barely managed 4th" = held 4th for most of the rally despite brake problems on saturday and not taking risks because Neuville and Mikkelsen were both well out of contention and the team needed points. Had about 40 seconds margin over Ogier at the end.

"needed Lappi to crash out to get it" = Lappi did have a big charge late saturday to catch Paddon who was 'taking it easy' (his words), but couldn't sustain that pace without crashing.

The Hyundai does seem to struggle there, I don't disagree with that. But there is no need to try and twist history to make an argument.
You are the one going full retard and making an argument for nothing.

Paddon wouldn't end 4th if Lappi didn't crash from ahead of him, fact. That counts as "barely managed 4th" and "needed Lappi to crash out to get it". 3rd was 1 min ahead so 4th was the best possible result.

AnttiL

19th June 2019, 15:44

So far Camilli is only testing the C3. Maybe this is Citroen’s answer to Katsuta, Hänninen and Huttunen? Remember, non-P1 drivers have a quota of extra testing days.

pantealex

19th June 2019, 16:42

So far Camilli is only testing the C3. Maybe this is Citroen’s answer to Katsuta, Hänninen and Huttunen? Remember, non-P1 drivers have a quota of extra testing days.

Could be.
Østberg is still at P1 list, so he is not allowed to test without spending testing days.

steve.mandzij

19th June 2019, 16:44

He had his chance. Blew with top WRC machine at M-Sport, had the chance with weaker machine R5 again in M-Sport, blew it away. He had a go with Polo in VW colors and still not acomplish anything. And they are by the way the same age.Camilli going up to WRC without any experience at all was a terrible move for everyone involved, and his results that year were nothing short of catastrophic. However, he has been improving in WRC2 for sure. I think he's a much better driver now thAn three years ago, and might deserve a chance at the top level, if at least for a single outing, to judge whether he improved or not.

wia5958

19th June 2019, 18:14

You are the one going full retard and making an argument for nothing.

Paddon wouldn't end 4th if Lappi didn't crash from ahead of him, fact. That counts as "barely managed 4th" and "needed Lappi to crash out to get it". 3rd was 1 min ahead so 4th was the best possible result.

That's not a fact that's speculation the only fact in your statement there is that lappi crashed that is the only fact

racerx1979

19th June 2019, 19:39

That's not a fact that's speculation the only fact in your statement there is that lappi crashed that is the only fact

If one is to go retard he must go full retard.

er88

19th June 2019, 22:18

If one is to go retard he must go full retard.Never go FULL retard ;)

Allez Andruet

19th June 2019, 22:25

Paddon wouldn't end 4th if Lappi didn't crash from ahead of him, fact.

No, it isn't. Like Lappi's crash would've been the only variable there is :o

Fast Eddie WRC

19th June 2019, 22:43

So far Camilli is only testing the C3. Maybe this is Citroen’s answer to Katsuta, Hänninen and Huttunen? Remember, non-P1 drivers have a quota of extra testing days.

Maybe Camilli is the best Citroen can do (afford?) in testing. And if so why Budar complained about current WRC cars entering National rallies.

Hyundai and Toyota have the budgets for this and Citroen and M-Sport dont. Maybe the testing rules do need tightening to keep things fair and more level...

racerx1979

20th June 2019, 00:49

Maybe Camilli is the best Citroen can do (afford?) in testing. And if so why Budar complained about current WRC cars entering National rallies.

Hyundai and Toyota have the budgets for this and Citroen and M-Sport dont. Maybe the testing rules do need tightening to keep things fair and more level...

M-Sport in Estonia with Evans so they have something going for them....

Franky

20th June 2019, 05:56

M-Sport in Estonia with Evans so they have something going for them....

Estonia is compulsory event.

AnttiL

20th June 2019, 08:24

Estonia is compulsory event.

Yes, it's a lot different to taking a car to a random national event. It's in co-operation with the WRC Promoter who probably demands at least one car from each team and also there's most likely financial support to get it happening from the promoter and from the event organizers.

AnttiL

20th June 2019, 08:33

Maybe Camilli is the best Citroen can do (afford?) in testing.

Who else do you have who has driven a 2017 WRC car (albeit only in test tracks) but has not collected manu points this or last year and is not a gentleman driver? Also, Camilli has done also other testing work like with the Polo, so he's good for the job.

EDIT: I think Lefebvre would also fit the conditions.

dck1989

20th June 2019, 12:50

Wrc spain itinerary released today

AnttiL

20th June 2019, 13:05

Wrc spain itinerary released today

Quite much the same as last year

- No more Barcelona SSS
- Middle gravel stage changed, now titled Horta-Bot, but probably partly same as Pesells last year. A bit shorter, so a bit less gravel this year.
- Riudecanyes is now power stage
- La Mussara is the second Sunday stage.

AL14

20th June 2019, 14:14

Nelly

20th June 2019, 15:12

Quite much the same as last year

- No more Barcelona SSS
- Middle gravel stage changed, now titled Horta-Bot, but probably partly same as Pesells last year. A bit shorter, so a bit less gravel this year.
- Riudecanyes is now power stage
- La Mussara is the second Sunday stage.New shakedown??

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Allez Andruet

20th June 2019, 15:58

He also work on first Toyota tests.

That was back in the day when TMG was still running the project with a completely different car.

Tauri_J

20th June 2019, 16:23

New shakedown??

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

not announced yet

racerx1979

20th June 2019, 18:26

Yes, it's a lot different to taking a car to a random national event. It's in co-operation with the WRC Promoter who probably demands at least one car from each team and also there's most likely financial support to get it happening from the promoter and from the event organizers.

And here I thought the teams were just volunteering... lol

AnttiL

20th June 2019, 20:42

And here I thought the teams were just volunteering... lol

Here's the news about them signing to be a semi-official WRC event https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/march-2019/rally-estonia/page/6150--12-12-.html

The financial support to the teams from the event was already reported last year when they won the competition against Autoglym Rally the same weekend.

AL14

20th June 2019, 20:59

That was back in the day when TMG was still running the project with a completely different car.

I know, it's still some experience he has on testing and developing a car.

Fast Eddie WRC

20th June 2019, 22:32

Re WRC's testing on events...

I heard Absolute Rally on this subject and although they would 'like' to see WRC cars on small events, the consensus was that it was wrong.

This was because it takes away glory from the regular entrants and pushes up costs for the WRC teams which are supposed to be kept down.

dimviii

21st June 2019, 12:59

AUTO TODAY
‏ @AUTOTODAYMAG
4h4 hours ago

. @JKTyreRacing 's 3 pronged attack on Indian Rallying:

⏺️ @OfficialWRC #Campaign starting this year with 3 pilot rounds in this years #WRC2 season
⏺️ An #R2spec car in the #INRC this year , with an #R5 spec @FordRallySport #Fiesta for 2020
⏺️ Grassroot program by @Gillracing – At Machan, Taj Mahal Hotel, New Delhi
https://twitter.com/AUTOTODAYMAG/status/1141988685958676480

Fast Eddie WRC

21st June 2019, 13:09

Ogier:
A pleasure to have @PierreGASLY in the #C3WRC! I'm glad I could help and take him to the @PaulRicardTrack in time for the #FrenchGP ��
Now good luck for the weekend and enjoy the race in front of the �� fans! ��
#RedBullFamily #TheFrenchConnection @CitroenRacing https://t.co/nR2D4RLwop

Les coulisses du tournage "The French Connection" avec @SebOgier, @PierreGASLY et les équipes @Citroen & @redbullracing �� Toutes les infos : https://t.co/2ALoiiZtpr https://t.co/EfmidCbutN

Andre Oliveira

22nd June 2019, 09:12

Team Milano Racing

“ Le Kit R4, et notre voiture la #MR500X R4 font désormais partie de la classe RC2, et cohabitent avec les R5.
La FIA a communiqué hier que le Kit R4 est autorisé pour toutes les manches de mondial à partir de 2020.
A présent, les voitures Kit R4 peuvent courir dans n’importe quel rallye de n’importe quel championnat à partir de Janvier 2020 (sauf en Italie).
Nous sommes très heureux de ces bonnes nouvelles qui font cesser certaines polémiques ��

#ObjectifWRC2020”

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D9pz-61XkAAypD1?format=jpg&name=medium

the sniper

22nd June 2019, 13:40

What a mess...

pantealex

23rd June 2019, 15:24

Looks easier than now for me, no more RC2 or RC4

AnttiL

23rd June 2019, 15:28

Looks easier than now for me, no more RC2 or RC4

I don’t see RC’s being removed

However, it makes more sense that Rally 2 cars drive in (W)RC2 etc.

24th June 2019, 09:35

So if R5 becomes ‘Rally2’ what are we going to call it when retired guys from previous legs restart the following day?

Barreis

24th June 2019, 09:38

super rally again probably

Tarmop

24th June 2019, 09:46

There is officialy no "rally 2" anyway for the last 2 seasons i believe already? Now it is called "restart".

tomhlord

24th June 2019, 14:23

Who else do you have who has driven a 2017 WRC car (albeit only in test tracks) but has not collected manu points this or last year and is not a gentleman driver? Also, Camilli has done also other testing work like with the Polo, so he's good for the job.

EDIT: I think Lefebvre would also fit the conditions.

I applaud Camilli for carving out a career as a, mainly, test driver so far, very clever. Of course, he wants to be competing, but after 2016 his career could have been over. Having the conversations and agreeing to test the Polo R5, new Fiesta R5 and now the C3 WRC means he has a depth of knowledge across many different cars and teams, which as each test passes, becomes more valuable to each team who is looking for help.

AnttiL

24th June 2019, 15:35

I applaud Camilli for carving out a career as a, mainly, test driver so far, very clever. Of course, he wants to be competing, but after 2016 his career could have been over. Having the conversations and agreeing to test the Polo R5, new Fiesta R5 and now the C3 WRC means he has a depth of knowledge across many different cars and teams, which as each test passes, becomes more valuable to each team who is looking for help.

Also did a good portion of the Ford Fiesta WRC 2017 development in 2016.

wia5958

25th June 2019, 08:54

Breen now a Hyundai driver

Barreis

25th June 2019, 09:48

Breen and Hyundai
https://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/144360

AnttiL

25th June 2019, 12:07

https://twitter.com/SaariJarno/status/1143483849629941760

Big news today from Hyundai driver line-up.
Let's wait some more news from other manufacturers..
#CitroenRacing maybe.. ��

AnttiL

25th June 2019, 12:17

Also this

https://twitter.com/PanteAlex/status/1143483334821068801

I have seen LIVE 17 different drivers with WRC17-19 this year.
Breen and Virtanen will make it to 19.
Please 1 one more new name with WRC17-19 to @autoglymrally or @RallyFinland
That I can reach my Goal which is to see 20 different drivers competing with WRC17-19 LIVE during 2019

You will get the numbers full at Rally Finland.

So Østberg for third Citroen?

mknight

25th June 2019, 12:28

There are other options too.

Not sure if Katsuta has been announced? Hanninen is also an option there, cause he could likely take points off Neuville. Basically anyone could appear in a Fiesta.

AnttiL

25th June 2019, 12:31

There are other options too.

Not sure if Katsuta has been announced? Hanninen is also an option there, cause he could likely take points off Neuville.

Katsuta is planned to do the event in the new Fiesta R5. Hänninen said he won't do more events for now. Also, three Toyotas have been already entered for the event.

Also notice Jarno's previous tweet which hints towards Citroen

dimviii

25th June 2019, 20:15

RAM Yasir
��
��
‏ @ram_yashiri
23m23 minutes ago

Mr Pablo Marcos logistic specialist with @HMSGOfficial and Krzysztof stolarcyk Codinator with @MSportLtd will be attending #SafariRally to assess the conditions of Safari to give their teams a head-start in preparation shld Safari get a slot in 2020 WRC calendar @planetemarcus

deephouse

26th June 2019, 06:36

EstWRC

26th June 2019, 07:47

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D9-GXW4X4AAJ--X.jpg

tr4m

26th June 2019, 08:09

AnttiL

26th June 2019, 08:15

"Toyota team principal Tommi Mäkinen denied the deal was done yet, but admitted "the time was coming" to think about next season's driver line-up"

How do you go from this to front-page "lands deal" is beyond me.

Of course Mäkinen cannot admit it yet. He cannot say anything until the contract is published, if it exists. The magazine could have another source for the contract.

deephouse

26th June 2019, 08:15

The questions is. Who will suffer? Meeke or Latvala. Both are on edge - Meeke with his age and Latvala with his underperform.

Japé

26th June 2019, 08:26

The questions is. Who will suffer? Meeke or Latvala. Both are on edge - Meeke with his age and Latvala with his underperform.

Not commenting the TGR driver choices but age question in general. Is there some proof that when you pass 40 your performance drops in motorsports because of that? I doubt since even in physically most demanding fields like IndyCar has many top drivers close to 45 and they are not even talking about performance drop or future retirement because of the age. Some IndyCar drivers might have become better when they got older.

doubled1978

26th June 2019, 08:34

If Tanak were to go to Msport, as they have openly said they are trying to do,maybe neither...

Allez Andruet

26th June 2019, 08:40

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D9-GXW4X4AAJ--X.jpg

List of people shocked by this:

tr4m

26th June 2019, 08:49

Of course Mäkinen cannot admit it yet. He cannot say anything until the contract is published, if it exists. The magazine could have another source for the contract.

Estonian media (https://sport.postimees.ee/6715701/autospordi-valjaanne-rovanpera-voib-uuest-hooajast-olla-tanaku-meeskonnakaaslane) quotes the article quoting Jouhki and paints an image as if it was his decision. Apparently there were offers from both M-Sport as well from Hyundai, but Jouhki thought that local Finnish crew would be best for Kalle.

Article also mentions that Kalle has already tested Toyota, was this announced before and I just missed that?

T16

26th June 2019, 08:51

Estonian media (https://sport.postimees.ee/6715701/autospordi-valjaanne-rovanpera-voib-uuest-hooajast-olla-tanaku-meeskonnakaaslane) quotes the article quoting Jouhki and paints an image as if it was his decision. Apparently there were offers from both M-Sport as well from Hyundai, but Jouhki thought that local Finnish crew would be best for Kalle.

Article also mentions that Kalle has already tested Toyota, was this announced before and I just missed that?

I think he tested last year sometime, before Wales.

COD

26th June 2019, 08:57

Not commenting the TGR driver choices but age question in general. Is there some proof that when you pass 40 your performance drops in motorsports because of that? I doubt since even in physically most demanding fields like IndyCar has many top drivers close to 45 and they are not even talking about performance drop or future retirement because of the age. Some IndyCar drivers might have become better when they got older.

Hannu Mikkola became a world champion at the age of 41. Loeb is not doing that bad either, neither is Räikkönen for example

AL14

26th June 2019, 09:00

Very good choice by Toyota.
Rovanpera is a real talent and there are not a lot of young promising drivers with his speed and experience out there.

26th June 2019, 09:00

Hannu Mikkola became a world champion at the age of 41. Loeb is not doing that bad either, neither is Räikkönen for example

Rossi, or in a different sport Federer.. old people are back in fashion.

Allez Andruet

26th June 2019, 09:04

Article also mentions that Kalle has already tested Toyota, was this announced before and I just missed that?

Already in 2016: https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/tommi-makinen-vakuuttui-15-vuotiaan-suomalaislupauksen-wrc-testista-hyva-ote-autoon/6019398#gs.ljdzif

racerx1979

26th June 2019, 09:51

Well some rumors suggest JML is on the chopping block. This was before Sardegna... Unless he does some crazy transformation in the next 3-4 rallies

Co-FIN

26th June 2019, 10:34

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190626/137b11c6d8fc938477e30597e5e5a275.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

steve.mandzij

26th June 2019, 10:39

Well some rumors suggest JML is on the chopping block. This was before Sardegna... Unless he does some crazy transformation in the next 3-4 ralliesTommi would definitely sack Latvala before anyone else. He's incredibly fond of Tanak and Meeke and would have sacked JML last year if the Japanese hadn't wanted him to stay.

racerx1979

26th June 2019, 11:05

At this rate Latvala is the worst performer in the squad. I'm a huge Latvala fan, but business is business. It might be a good thing if JML can be a team leader at MSport, but I don't think that will happen. I also think Tanak will sign a 3-3 yr deal with TGR this year.

Fast Eddie WRC

26th June 2019, 11:17

Let's be honest, Latvala has had a great long run in WRC, but it's time to give a younger generation it's chance.

Meeke is getting old too but hasnt had nearly so many WRC seasons.

tommeke_B

26th June 2019, 11:30

It might be a good thing if JML can be a team leader at MSport, but I don't think that will happen.
Well, from the outside you would think Latvala can barely manage himself during rallies..

mknight

26th June 2019, 11:40

I said it before that I think it's too early for Kalle to do full season. He has shown this year that he still has things to learn in R5. Imo ideal would be only a few rallies in WRC next year.

However, it is very likely he will get more than one year deal no matter how he performs in 2020, so it's probably not very risky for him. On the other hand it is very risky for Toyota as they might get quite a lot weaker in the manu championship. Then again given results of Toyota drivers besides Tanak this year, you can argument that it's not possible to do much worse anyway.

doubled1978

26th June 2019, 11:58

I’m sure that Toyota fully expect there to be a few bent Yaris WRC next year, but there have been a few this year anyway. I’d put Rovanpera in and let him drive, he’s clearly on the upward trajectory and one of the few that look like having the capacity to join the Tanak/Neuville/Ogier level...
As for Latvala, I have always thought he would be better off with less pressure from other drivers in the same team, Msport....I’m sure he would do a good job there, like his first season at Toyota.

Tarmop

26th June 2019, 12:34

I think mr Toyoda and probably the team in Est/Fin are finding it quite frustrating to have their championship-winning team with car-issues and struggling no. 2 and 3 drivers. Hard to be the best this way...and Rovanperä isn`t the answer because, firstly, needs more experience from WRC(hampionship). He has had quite costly mistakes this year. Outings in a fourth car, shared with Katsuta+ outings under TMR in R5, all for it.

denkimi

26th June 2019, 12:43

If toyota really signs rovanperra, i can't see him in anything else than a 4th car at the start of the year.

Fast Eddie WRC

26th June 2019, 13:23

Yves Matton
Great to see @Craig_Breen and @paulnagle1 back in #WRC for the @RallyFinland. Hopefully the new beginning of an inspiring story about never giving up ! https://t.co/NtLHtPtO1F

AnttiL

26th June 2019, 13:43

Harri Rovanperä says the news of Kalle's contract are only rumors https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-10849253

Barreis

26th June 2019, 13:49

Rovanpera and Toyota
http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/144390

Kalle Rovanpera secures 2020 Toyota World Rally Championship drive

Kalle Rovanpera will step up to a Toyota works seat next season, making him the youngest ever full-time factory driver in the World Rally Championship, Autosport has learned.

The 18-year-old's management will invoke a clause in his two-year Skoda deal to depart his current employer at the end of the year.

Autosport's sources have indicated Rovanpera will drive a third Yaris WRC from the start of 2020.

All parties have denied the deal is done, but Rovanpera's manager Timo Jouhki believes the current WRC 2 Pro leader was ready for the step up.

"Skoda has been very, very good with Kalle," Jouhki told Autosport.

"He has done a lot of testing and this has been an excellent place, but now the time has come.

"We wanted to see how he's progressing with the notes, working with the team, his physical fitness, working with the media and all of these things and he's progressed in every area. He's probably progressed more than we thought he would.

"The aim was for him to get experience for all of the rallies. By the end of this season he will have competed on every rally."

Toyota team boss Tommi Makinen said it was "a little too early" to start talking about drivers for next season, but added that he would be thinking about his 2020 line-up from now on.

Rovanpera has already tested the Yaris WRC, driving the car for the first time during an endurance session in 2017.

Speculation about the teenager joining Toyota has been rife ever since.

Rovanpera said he was ready to move up to the World Rally Car class.

"If the season continues to go like this, then I think we can go to the big cars," he told Autosport.

"We can go there and learn or we can use the option with Skoda and stay for another year, because there is still a lot to learn from the conditions of rallies.

"I saw in Portugal and Sardinia, the first time going to a new event is always difficult. So I will learn with Skoda or go with the big car."

Rovanpera was careful not to specify the "big car" he was talking about.

From the archive
2016: Why Rovanpera is rallying's Verstappen

Autosport understands there was interest in Rovanpera from M-Sport and Hyundai, but Citroen remains fixed for next season with Sebastien Ogier and Esapekka Lappi.

The news that Rovanpera will take one of three Yaris WRCs next season will have ramifications for the driver market, but this season much of the movement will depend on whether WRC leader Ott Tanak remains at Toyota.

The team currently fields Tanak, Kris Meeke and Jari-Matti Latvala.

er88

26th June 2019, 14:40

People quick to bash Autosport/ David Evans but he was on the money regarding Meeke going to Toyota when all the Finnish media and a lot on here thought it was a load of shite. Normally when a big publication goes big on such a story, it has truth in it. This doesn't sound like just fanciful David Evans rumours he's made up in his head or what he thinks/wants to happen...

Ofcourse it all depends on Tanak, but I think he'll stay. If he does, you have to say Latvala has had his chance and if some of the service park rumours are to be believed - apparently Tommi thinks the same. Over 200 wrc starts, 3yrs in the Yaris compared to Meeke's first and Tanak's 2nd, yet Jari is the one who seems lost more often than not with poor setups and pace. Maybe Finland and Germany can save him but I believe the writing is on the wall - if he does go I hope he gets a drive elsewhere, maybe back to Msport? I hope for next year Citroen and Msport can both run 3 cars on every event

AnttiL

26th June 2019, 14:57

wrc2017

26th June 2019, 15:16

Yeah, Mäkinen also said last year that "Meeke is not coming to our team".

so what you point. thats not reflecion on evans. I think the trigger has been Rovernpera exit from Skoda.

Tarmop

26th June 2019, 15:30

I believe Evans wrote that Tänak chose Ford for 2018 also...
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/132060/tanak-set-to-reject-toyota-and-stay-at-msport

Also there is that little thing called army service, which Rovanperä starts this autumn. Not something that helps one to test-train for the following season, in a totally new environment.

AnttiL

26th June 2019, 15:53

AnttiL

26th June 2019, 15:54

so what you point. thats not reflecion on evans.

1. Evans says that Meeke is going to Toyota
2. Mäkinen says Meeke is not going to Toyota
3. Meeke actually goes to Toyota

Just reminding that Evans got that right, and Mäkinen denied it in the first place. Although I'm not 100% sure of the timeline, I remember 1-2. happened in early summer 2018 and Meeke later said he didn't contact anyone until Rally Finland 2018.

AnttiL

26th June 2019, 15:55

https://www.rallit.fi/kalle-rovanpera-kommentoi-niukkasanaisesti-toyota-huhuja/

Kalle himself says also that he doesn't know anything about the contract.

Rallyper

26th June 2019, 16:00

I wouldn´t be surprised if Kalle has contract for 2020. No smoke without a fire...

Fast Eddie WRC

26th June 2019, 16:06

I believe the writing is on the wall - if he does go I hope he gets a drive elsewhere, maybe back to Msport? I hope for next year Citroen and Msport can both run 3 cars on every event

Wilson has made it clear he only wants a top driver if he is to change his line-up in 2020 (ie. Tanak).

Latvala would likely have to bring budget to drive a 3rd Fiesta.

Barreis

26th June 2019, 16:38

when big link like autosport.com writes it is a deal done in the headline, then that's it

Fast Eddie WRC

26th June 2019, 17:36

The famous Safari Rally edges closer to return to WRC... https://t.co/5XOnrdlSVm

spiderem

26th June 2019, 19:54

I wonder if Toyota are considering a shared drive between JML and Kalle? Sordo has had his best season by doing a part time program, could well suit JML as well... And allowing Kalle to mature and learn slowly but surely.

Tarmop

26th June 2019, 20:05

Meanwhile Rovanperä senior has said there is nothing certain yet.

Barreis

26th June 2019, 20:38

Who is out of Toyota next season: Latvala or Meeke?

mknight

26th June 2019, 20:44

Who is out of Toyota next season: Latvala or Meeke?

I don't think they have decided yet, I bet at least one of them is.
At the moment it's more on Latvala, but imo mostly cause Meeke still didn't have as many rallies with them. If they continue the season like this might even be both out and Evans or Suninen in. Actually Tanak-Evans-Rovanpera sounds like quite a strong team on paper.

EstWRC

26th June 2019, 20:45

can be both

deephouse

26th June 2019, 21:25

Barreis

26th June 2019, 21:41

Lappi is under contract with Citroen

wrc2017

27th June 2019, 04:25

Or bring back Lappi. He did a good job there, the car doesn't..

Never happen.

Crazy J

27th June 2019, 06:37

I don't think they have decided yet, I bet at least one of them is.
At the moment it's more on Latvala, but imo mostly cause Meeke still didn't have as many rallies with them. If they continue the season like this might even be both out and Evans or Suninen in. Actually Tanak-Evans-Rovanpera sounds like quite a strong team on paper.

2021 lineup could be full season for Katsuta, Rovanpera, Tanak. If 4th car is needed in some events it could be Meeke or Latvala in case they are free.
2020 guess could be full season for Tanak. Latvala and Meeke would be evaluated based to results on first quarter and one of them would continue to do a full season. The other would split 3rd-4th car after Q1 with Katsuta and Rovanpera whom would do a selected rounds.

AnttiL

27th June 2019, 07:06

2021 lineup could be full season for Katsuta, Rovanpera, Tanak. If 4th car is needed in some events it could be Meeke or Latvala in case they are free.
2020 guess could be full season for Tanak. Latvala and Meeke would be evaluated based to results on first quarter and one of them would continue to do a full season. The other would split 3rd-4th car after Q1 with Katsuta and Rovanpera whom would do a selected rounds.

That's like silly season craziness squared, already making predictions for two years ahead! :D

But let's just say that if Latvala and Meeke don't up their game, they're out of Toyota and the whole WRC. And I could easily see Rovanperä driving already a full season next year.

denkimi

27th June 2019, 07:29

The question is who is free to replace them and will surely do better?

Crazy J

27th June 2019, 07:30

tr4m

27th June 2019, 07:31

The question is who is free to replace them and will surely do better?

Depends on what the next couple of rallies will show, but I find that Teemu Suninen could be a match.

AnttiL

27th June 2019, 07:40

If Rovanpera would do full season in 2020, besides Tanak. Then it could be 50-75% for Katsuta. Another 50-75% for Latvala or Meeke, the other one remaining as non-competing test driver. Latvala and Meeke both known for good technical skills. For TGR it is not impossible to run 4 cars 50% or more from season.

More crazy assumptions. Please don't cling onto Meeke and Latvala. There are other drivers who are interested in Toyota and whom Toyota are likely interested in. Katsuta will stick around for sure but I would say his role in 2020 will still be WRC2, testing and driving the fourth car occasionally. Besides, Toyota hasn't been keen on driver rotation, opting instead for full seasons.

denkimi

27th June 2019, 07:47

If Rovanpera would do full season in 2020, besides Tanak. Then it could be 50-75% for Katsuta. Another 50-75% for Latvala or Meeke, the other one remaining as non-competing test driver. Latvala and Meeke both known for good technical skills. For TGR it is not impossible to run 4 cars 50% or more from season.
Unless toyota wins both titles this year and says: fuck it, we don't want to win them again next year, both Rovanpera and katsuta will not drive anything but a 4th car next year.

Perhaps if one of them turns out to perform very well they might promote them to the first team, but that won't be till later in the season.

TRW

27th June 2019, 12:27

https://www.rallit.fi/kalle-rovanpera-kommentoi-niukkasanaisesti-toyota-huhuja/

Kalle himself says also that he doesn't know anything about the contract.

If I remember correctly there was similar case with Teemu, he found out that he is driving full 2019 from a local magazine, Jouhki just forgot to tell him :D

mknight

27th June 2019, 17:56

The question is who is free to replace them and will surely do better?

If Toyota wants a "stable" and reliable points scorer for manu championship Evans does seem like a very good choice at the moment.
Tanak-Evans-Rovanpera lineup would have a title-charger, reliable points scorer and a young and coming challenger.

That said we don't know how much they want a manu title now that they already won one and how much they want to charge for wins and driver championship (both now (Tanak) and in future (Rovanpera)).

Also driver form can change rather quickly, before Spain last year Evans looked like he might get kicked out of WRC for good.

wrc2017

27th June 2019, 18:01

If Toyota wants a "stable" and reliable points scorer for manu championship Evans does seem like a very good choice at the moment.
Tanak-Evans-Rovanpera lineup would have a title-charger, reliable points scorer and a young and coming challenger.

That said we don't know how much they want a manu title now that they already won one and how much they want to charge for wins and driver championship (both now (Tanak) and in future (Rovanpera)).

Also driver form can change rather quickly, before Spain last year Evans looked like he might get kicked out of WRC for good.
He has mores off than Meeke, who has just had mostly bad luck.

AnttiL

28th June 2019, 08:39

Katsuta rumored to drive Deutschland and Catalunya on the fourth Yaris

EDIT: Black on white. https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/144422/toyota-gives-protege-katsuta-wrc-debut

Andre Oliveira

28th June 2019, 09:16

https://toyotagazooracing.com/release/2019/challengeprogram_rally/0628-01.html

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-IuFp2WwAAMIWD?format=jpg&name=large

Rallyper

28th June 2019, 09:20

Well, that guy have had his training more than well. The big difference between how drivers develop... Let´s see what he can bring on.

AnttiL

28th June 2019, 09:23

Well, that guy have had his training more than well. The big difference between how drivers develop... Let´s see what he can bring on.

The team isn't expecting any results from him, just learning and developing. Germany is a difficult rally to start with. Catalunya should be easier, although it's like two rallies in one.

Rallyper

28th June 2019, 09:28

The team isn't expecting any results from him, just learning and developing. Germany is a difficult rally to start with. Catalunya should be easier, although it's like two rallies in one.

What I meant, with a bit of sarcasm, was that people in this forum expects Tidemand to be top three in sweden in his 2nd outing in WRC car... Others get training years and years and still no expectations what so ever...

AnttiL

28th June 2019, 09:39

What I meant, with a bit of sarcasm, was that people in this forum expects Tidemand to be top three in sweden in his 2nd outing in WRC car... Others get training years and years and still no expectations what so ever...

I could read between the lines that you were instantly thinking about Tidemand. But you must also remember that Tidemand has years of experience from WRC rallies, even from older generation WRC cars and he is a WRC2 champion. Also, when Tidemand self-funds two drives, we expect him to show something to get team bosses interested. Katsuta meanwhile doesn't have to prove anything, since he's hired by a manufacturer to become a professional WRC driver because it will have a marketing value for the company to have a local driver.

Rallyper

28th June 2019, 10:01

I could read between the lines that you were instantly thinking about Tidemand. But you must also remember that Tidemand has years of experience from WRC rallies, even from older generation WRC cars and he is a WRC2 champion. Also, when Tidemand self-funds two drives, we expect him to show something to get team bosses interested. Katsuta meanwhile doesn't have to prove anything, since he's hired by a manufacturer to become a professional WRC driver because it will have a marketing value for the company to have a local driver.

That´s absolutely the BIG difference. driving without pressure.

One has to recall, Tidemand (this particular example - there are several others...) not drove much more than WRC2 rallies. In between there were not many occasions for him to get additional experience. Not like our Mr Katsuta, whom I wish all well in his career, of course. :)

denkimi

28th June 2019, 10:08

What I meant, with a bit of sarcasm, was that people in this forum expects Tidemand to be top three in sweden in his 2nd outing in WRC car... Others get training years and years and still no expectations what so ever...
That is because we expect tideman to do well. He is wrc2 champion.

We don't really expect that from katsuta, he's only there because of japanese nationalism.

Barreis

28th June 2019, 10:12

nice to have Japanese driver in WRC. remember Arai sr with AllStars Prodrive squad with some nice results. Maybe Katsuta could do top10 on some of these ralllies

Rallyper

28th June 2019, 10:53

That is because we expect tideman to do well. He is wrc2 champion.

We don't really expect that from katsuta, he's only there because of japanese nationalism.

Of course. Life isn´t fair. I would say...

Swedish drivers on national level mostly pay from their own pockets. That´s the state in sweden.

AnttiL

28th June 2019, 11:07

Of course. Life isn´t fair. I would say...

Swedish drivers on national level mostly pay from their own pockets. That´s the state in sweden.

I think this is the state in every country. Although, usually everyone has a sponsor of some kind, but rarely the drivers can be full-time professional rally drivers.

[WRCRR]

28th June 2019, 11:09

Swedish drivers on national level mostly pay from their own pockets. That´s the state in sweden.

Like it is the state also in any other country. Only thing that can be argued is that the support of local motorsport authority absolutely sucks in Sweden. But also for this the situation is the same in most other countries, with few exceptions (like FFSA in France).

EDIT: Dammit AnttiL, beaten :D

deephouse

28th June 2019, 12:53

I can see Katsuta driving also Rally Japan 2020 in a Yaris WRC. Since they want to abandon Tour de Corse and he need to prepare for tarmac.

28th June 2019, 13:12

I was looking again at Tidemand's times from Monte and Sweden, and whilst there were a handful of really poor times his performance overall perhaps wasn't as bad as the memory told me. On the other hand there were no real eye catching performances either that might excite a team manager or sponsor.

I do hope he can find some more cash and do a couple more events to show us something more.

wrc2017

28th June 2019, 14:13

Toyota could maybe run a 'A' team and 'B' team next year. (Rovernpera and Katsuta).. 2 cars each, and notimate a 3rd driver from B team

AnttiL

28th June 2019, 17:01

I can see Katsuta driving also Rally Japan 2020 in a Yaris WRC. Since they want to abandon Tour de Corse and he need to prepare for tarmac.

It's also clear that Katsuta is put to Germany and Spain to prepare for Rally Japan 2019.

deephouse

28th June 2019, 17:08

All of the teams could do that, then lack of seats wouldn't be a problem. Like some time ago Citroen have two teams, Hyundai also, Skoda too, VW, Ford... Now running one team is a problem

Mirek

28th June 2019, 17:37

All of the teams could do that, then lack of seats wouldn't be a problem. Like some time ago Citroen have two teams, Hyundai also, Skoda too, VW, Ford... Now running one team is a problem

It will likely get worse next couple of years with the automotive industry slowly coming into another crisis.

deephouse

28th June 2019, 18:20

And they are going with new generations cars soon. Much more expensive than they are now. The only thing that could work is to switch to R5 cars completely.

Tarmop

28th June 2019, 18:43

Better end the series...

Mise

28th June 2019, 18:51

And they are going with new generations cars soon. Much more expensive than they are now. The only thing that could work is to switch to R5 cars completely.

I've been thinking that a lot. No manu's and factory teams but every manu would have 2 or 3 racing teams that would run the show. There could be 40+ entries in a rally and maybe 10 to 15 possible winners.
Well, with that system possible winner teams would be the same as now. History of rallying shows that pretty clearly

Mirek

28th June 2019, 18:54

No, guys, please not. Making R5 the top-tier machinery will likely increase their cost for private users. I very much prefer to keep R5 what it is now because it works perfect for the privateers. Let's keep it so.

deephouse

29th June 2019, 04:49

29th June 2019, 09:25

How about R5+ for the top category? More aero, bigger restrictor, 6 speed box..

SubaruNorway

29th June 2019, 09:30

How about R5+ for the top category? More aero, bigger restrictor, 6 speed box..

Basically an WRC then... It's the aero that's dragging up the price a lot and you would have to change the rest of the drivetrain also not just fit a 6 speed box. I've forgotten what the price of a rear wing now is but it used to be 9000€ for the Impreza S10...

Mirek

29th June 2019, 09:32

Let's wait and see. Don't complain then when everything will go down... Like in WTCC

If everything goes down't it's not because of machinery.

It was said thousand times before. How much the teams can spend is not driven by technical rules but by the value of the championship title. If the championship attracts large number of audience and it's popular as hell, it can run cars made of gold and the manufacturers will go for it anyway. If nobody cares about the championship, driving cheap cars will not save it.

mknight

29th June 2019, 16:49

There is quite a lot of room between the two extremes you mentioned.
In fact there is so much room that it almost makes your post pointless.

Manufacturers/PR people do some cost vs benefit calculation quite often. Those calculations are not binary only.

denkimi

30th June 2019, 14:28

Basically an WRC then... It's the aero that's dragging up the price a lot and you would have to change the rest of the drivetrain also not just fit a 6 speed box. I've forgotten what the price of a rear wing now is but it used to be 9000€ for the Impreza S10...
Aero are just some pieces of carbon, it's the development cost that makes it expensive.

So if they sell more cars, that price can go down quite a lot quickly.

AL14

30th June 2019, 14:51

If everything goes down't it's not because of machinery.

It was said thousand times before. How much the teams can spend is not driven by technical rules but by the value of the championship title. If the championship attracts large number of audience and it's popular as hell, it can run cars made of gold and the manufacturers will go for it anyway. If nobody cares about the championship, driving cheap cars will not save it.

Agree 100%

deephouse

30th June 2019, 15:30

Agree 100%

Mitsubishi Lancer is all over the internet today. Could it be that they are considering WRC 2022 with it? Hope so..

Tarmop

30th June 2019, 17:47

Fast Eddie WRC

1st July 2019, 10:53

World Rally Championship: 'Hopes are high' for Ireland return...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/motorsport/48803645

Fast Eddie WRC

1st July 2019, 22:50

New Titans RX Series debut last weekend... featuring Craig Breen (straight from Ypres) and Hayden Paddon !

https://youtu.be/UI-ybLgEwOU

GravelBen

2nd July 2019, 01:08

New Titans RX Series debut last weekend... featuring Craig Breen (straight from Ypres) and Hayden Paddon !

https://youtu.be/UI-ybLgEwOU

I wasn't impressed with the track to be honest, no real passing opportunities apart from bumping off the car in front - practically every race win was decided by the first corner. Hopefully the next round is better.

Fast Eddie WRC

2nd July 2019, 11:17

Anyone think the rumour of Paddon in a Fiesta WRC for Finland is possible ?

Mintexmemory

2nd July 2019, 13:13

World Rally Championship: 'Hopes are high' for Ireland return...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/motorsport/48803645

If Brexit happens the chances of this going ahead are virtually zero. Even if we are still in the EU, without a Stormont assembly functioning the funding won't be available. And speaking as an inhabitant of the island of GB, that is where a Rally GB needs to be, not elsewhere in the (for the time being) UK.

AnttiL

2nd July 2019, 13:15

Anyone think the rumour of Paddon in a Fiesta WRC for Finland is possible ?

Today I heard a rumor that there would be three M-Sport WRC cars. But I don't believe it's Paddon.

Allez Andruet

2nd July 2019, 13:16

Just my two cents, but it's either Tidemand or Greensmith.

rallyfiend

2nd July 2019, 14:34

It's Paddon.

It seems maybe he's taken the rejection by Hyundai quite badly and decided he can't sit around waiting for the phone to ring....

wia5958

2nd July 2019, 14:40

If Brexit happens the chances of this going ahead are virtually zero. Even if we are still in the EU, without a Stormont assembly functioning the funding won't be available. And speaking as an inhabitant of the island of GB, that is where a Rally GB needs to be, not elsewhere in the (for the time being) UK.

So as long as it's on the mainland and you don't have to get on a ferry or plane your happy. Your proud enough to claim Meeke as being from GB why not his roads?

pantealex

2nd July 2019, 14:40

Just my two cents, but it's either Tidemand or Greensmith.

It´s not Tidemand.

and I don´t believe that it´s Greensmith or Paddon.

My two cents goes to Estonian driver ;)

Allez Andruet

2nd July 2019, 14:56

My two cents goes to Estonian driver ;)

So maybe it's Raido Rüütel with number 620.

Got Mail

2nd July 2019, 14:57

It´s not Tidemand.

and I don´t believe that it´s Greensmith or Paddon.

My two cents goes to Estonian driver ;)

Me too. After all, he's doing the Estonia Rally.

TypeR

2nd July 2019, 15:19

from some sources he is/was testing Fiesta WRC in Germany..

Eli

2nd July 2019, 17:37

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/144548/safari-could-officially-return-in-vote-this-week

& apart from that, Rally Australia organizers are planning an event in Gold Coast as opposed to NZ's, Auckland based event for 2020. Besides that, Germany will be a reserve rally next year. Decision to be made this Friday or early next week at the latest.

the sniper

2nd July 2019, 20:59

So as long as it's on the mainland and you don't have to get on a ferry or plane your happy. Your proud enough to claim Meeke as being from GB why not his roads?

Mintex has travelled to many of rallies overseas. It's not much more expensive to do an overseas rally than Rally GB...

Personally I can see the value in a rally in Northern Ireland (& Ireland) for that market. As much as I'd miss Rally GB for a year, every few years, as part of a rotation system, hopefully with a Wales Rally GB and (hopefully a) Scottish Rally (GB), I think it's worth doing. I'd be going over to NI for it anyway. But it shouldn't be considered a continuation of Rally GB. A rally in Northern Ireland would mean nothing to the public in GB. It'd logistically be another overseas rally, like any of those in Europe. It should be a MSUK Circuit of Ireland. Rally GB is not a tarmac rally in Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is not in Great Britain...

Fast Eddie WRC

2nd July 2019, 21:23

Sad fact is that no region in England or Scotland has enough interest in rallying to organise a WRC event.

Like Wales, N.Ireland has that interest as its people are big rally fans. Plus it has a great rally scene and WRC drivers Meeke (& Breen).

They also seem confident it can be funded even without a functioning Stormont.

I think it would be brilliant. Not the same as Wales of course but still brilliant.

mknight

2nd July 2019, 21:35

I wonder what is going on at Citroen and Hyundai in terms of upgrades.

Citroen was spotted testing aero upgrades multiple times at the start of the year, notably before Mexico. Comments were made from drivers and leaders that "they won't have time to introduce them for Portugal/Sardinia", implying they should make it to Finland.
Hyundai said around Corsica that they were aiming for big gravel updates before Finland supposedly including (front) aero.

....now there are no new testing vids from any of them and no announced upgrades yet.

The first big question is related to rally Estonia, they could try to introduce upgrades before that so that they can test them and find setup for Finland, but that gives them two weeks less time.
On the other hand I think especially Ogier is really not eager to go to Finland with new aero upgrades without a lot of testing beforehand after he struggled bigtime last year. (even though that could have as much to do with damper change as with aero change).

Interesting what comes up at both teams. The success (or not) of upgrades will likely be crucial for both Ogier's and Neuville's championship as well as Hyundai's manu charge.

Didn't hear anything from Toyota but they typically don't announce upgrades much beforehand. For them sorting reliability (including suspension + rim related issues on tarmac) and preparing for Turkey where they struggled last year is likely the biggest priority.

Mintexmemory

2nd July 2019, 22:02

We have had this geography lesson before. Northern Ireland (aka Ulster) is part of the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom is a short form of the country - United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Great Britain is the largest island in the group called the British Isles and comprises Wales, Scotland and England. So glad as I am that Kris Meeke is from the UK he is not from GB. Nor would a rally held in NI ever be one that should be called Rally GB (as my learned friend, The Sniper, has already said.)
It should also be noted that the 2 editions of WRC Ireland were not universally acclaimed successes. The same issues that applied to those events still exist. As for the ‘Task Force’ anyone with the slightest understanding of the nature of NI politics can see the problems that no amount of PR can hide

wia5958

3rd July 2019, 08:53

So in equal measure rally italia sardegna shouldn't be run on sardenia because it's not on the mainland? If they change the name to UK rally Northern Ireland would that be satisfactory

AnttiL

3rd July 2019, 09:26

So in equal measure rally italia sardegna shouldn't be run on sardenia because it's not on the mainland? If they change the name to UK rally Northern Ireland would that be satisfactory

Yeah, name change would be appropriate. Maybe WRC Circuit of Ireland? But the main point of this switch is to get a new tarmac rally to replace Corsica and/or Germany.

It's also weird that teams disliked Corsica and Sardegna because of the difficult island logistics and now they're making the UK rally similarly difficult. Well, at least Sardegna got three more years...

Mintexmemory

3rd July 2019, 09:48

So in equal measure rally italia sardegna shouldn't be run on sardenia because it's not on the mainland? If they change the name to UK rally Northern Ireland would that be satisfactory

Sardegna is part of the Republic of Italy. The Isle of Mull is part of Scotland and so part of GB. Northern Ireland is a special case among EU countries and this attempt to hi-Jack the GB forest rally to a different location smells of 5day dead rodent

T16

3rd July 2019, 10:06

Rally GB should be a tough, ideally wet, forest rally.
England, Scotland, Wales, or all three.
End of.

Fast Eddie WRC

3rd July 2019, 10:13

T16

3rd July 2019, 10:21

'Rally GB' was a new name given to the Network Q Rally when it moved to be based in Wales. It has never been a 'GB rally' since, but in reality a Welsh one. No-one complained about this.

N.I. is part of the UK and I see no reason why it shouldnt be allowed to run Britain's round of the WRC if they are willing and able to so..

I don't understand the point you're making in your first sentence.

I get that you and others are happy for this round to be ran in Ireland, but for me, I can travel around and watch it without having to get a ferry or a flight, if it stays on UK mainland and most importantly, it's traditionally been a gravel rally, not tarmac.

There's something special about Rally GB / the RAC/ Network Q, or whatever you want to call it and that something pulls a lot from the surface and the time of year the event is ran.
I just think moving it to Ireland will take away it's soul completely and it's as good as dropping the round for a different event.

Mintexmemory

3rd July 2019, 11:22

Only potential problem I can see if the UK round of the WRC moves to NI is finding stages that allow for a large number of spectators to view the action safely and easily. Been to a fair few events in Ireland and a lot of the the roads are narrow and hedge lined. Looking at quite a lot of the footage online from rallies there recently and a lot of taped off areas. Will be interesting to see how that issue is tackled.

You make a great point, Irish rallying is a grass roots event and hugely difficult to marshal. With so many points of access crowd control is a major issue and certainly not amenable to getting spectators to pay for the privilege of watching.
The facilities for teams outside of Belfast and Dublin are slim to non-existent, while accommodation for fans during the 2007 and 2009 editions of Rally Ireland (both of which I attended) was extremely problematic.
This is the quote that is complete bull from the original article:
"Paisley believes that the WRC coming to Northern Ireland "is a real prospect" despite the lack of a local government at Stormont.
"Technically it can happen without Stormont in place, but it makes sense that the political drive is from our government," said the DUP MP."

There is no money from 'government' without Stormont in place, hence no underwriting of costs. Paisley is perhaps hoping for a massive bribe for the DUP from the Conservatives but I wouldn't be backing plans that relied on Boris Johnson being able to control his own bladder let alone the UK government!

doubled1978

3rd July 2019, 12:04

I have no issue with N.Ireland having the opportunity to host what is nominally Rally GB, but I do think if it becomes a tarmac rally it’s taking away an essential element of the WRC complete package. The WRC is the challenge it is because of the variety of conditions encountered, and Rally GB provides an outlier in that it is fast and wet/muddy.
It would like holding Rally Finland on tarmac...
I hasten to add that if it does end up being on tarmac in N.Ireland I will almost certainly still go and watch.

EstWRC

3rd July 2019, 12:57

BobJones

3rd July 2019, 13:21

That is made up from Evans. But I can confirm that Hyundai has made an offer to him.

Oh well, in that case, I'm glad I've heard it from you and not a measly journalist...

There's no smoke without fire.

mknight

3rd July 2019, 14:33

What would Toyota do without Tanak and with Ogier and Neuville already signed for next year?

Meeke-(Latvala)-Rovanpera-Katsuta atm doesn't sound like a lineup capable of charging for any title.

Oops!

3rd July 2019, 14:46

You make a great point, Irish rallying is a grass roots event and hugely difficult to marshal. With so many points of access crowd control is a major issue and certainly not amenable to getting spectators to pay for the privilege of watching.
The facilities for teams outside of Belfast and Dublin are slim to non-existent, while accommodation for fans during the 2007 and 2009 editions of Rally Ireland (both of which I attended) was extremely problematic.
This is the quote that is complete bull from the original article:
"Paisley believes that the WRC coming to Northern Ireland "is a real prospect" despite the lack of a local government at Stormont.
"Technically it can happen without Stormont in place, but it makes sense that the political drive is from our government," said the DUP MP."

There is no money from 'government' without Stormont in place, hence no underwriting of costs. Paisley is perhaps hoping for a massive bribe for the DUP from the Conservatives but I wouldn't be backing plans that relied on Boris Johnson being able to control his own bladder let alone the UK government!

If this does go ahead their won't be any charges to see a stage, it's not the same as running the stages through private land. Certain access roads will be closed to the stages and spectator area's will be allocated... But rallying is run very well in this country with a lot of experienced marshals and organisers.... We tend to focus on the smooth running of an event, not just all the "red tape". And there's plenty of experienced people all over the country that will give up their time to make sure it goes well. Yes we had our problems in 07 and 09 but they were both good events, the time of year they were ran at did'nt help either. Ireland has a very different type of terrain all over the country for stages, stages up north tend to be a lot faster, abrasive with less high ditches than say somewhere around the midlands or south. Every county tends to have a different type of tarmac surface/road....

wia5958

3rd July 2019, 14:52

You make a great point, Irish rallying is a grass roots eventt!

Yet The British rally championship has 2 events in ireland. Yes that's right the BRITISH rally championship has 2 events of its calender in Ireland

Oops!

3rd July 2019, 14:55

Oops!

3rd July 2019, 14:59

I think you've said it all there...... What do you mean by grass roots anyway? I've never met a single crew that travelled from the uk or further afield that did'nt think rallying here was world class, entry, stage or organised as so.

wia5958

3rd July 2019, 15:06

And out of a 6 round BRITISH rally championship only 3 rounds are held in "BRITAIN"

Mintexmemory

3rd July 2019, 15:28

Yet The British rally championship has 2 events in ireland. Yes that's right the BRITISH rally championship has 2 events of its calender in Ireland

It also has a round in BELGIUM yes that's right BELGIUM - Your point is?
.... In any case (back to the geography lesson) - 'British' means anywhere in the British Isles, of which the island of Ireland is the second largest after the island of Great Britain.

wia5958

3rd July 2019, 15:29

It also has a round in BELGIUM yes that's right BELGIUM - Your point is? it's not in Britain is it

Oops!

3rd July 2019, 15:34

It is a different situation alright spectator wise being closed public roads vs private forestry land, no charge vs ticket prices. It will just take a little more time and homework to get to the decent spots on the stages but there will be plenty of good areas out side the spectator areas.... A little recce would go a long way!

wia5958

3rd July 2019, 15:45

It also has a round in BELGIUM yes that's right BELGIUM - Your point is?
.... In any case (back to the geography lesson) - 'British' means anywhere in the British Isles, of which the island of Ireland is the second largest after the island of Great Britain.

My geography might not be great but I wasn't aware Ypres was in the "British isles". West cork isn't part of the UK either. It is great Britain and Northern Ireland as u said earlier

EstWRC

3rd July 2019, 15:46

Isn’t this out of topic here ?

What’s the news and rumors?

Oops!

3rd July 2019, 15:52

It also has a round in BELGIUM yes that's right BELGIUM - Your point is?
.... In any case (back to the geography lesson) - 'British' means anywhere in the British Isles, of which the island of Ireland is the second largest after the island of Great Britain.

Let's not get side tracked here now folks.... but..... Ireland is part of the British Isles geographically, the British isles are made up of two sovereign states.... Anyway back to the topic at hand! :)

wia5958

3rd July 2019, 15:55

Rumour is That rally GB will have to change its name to rally UK so as not to offend people cause theres a chance it's not actually gonna be in Britain next year but still in UK so don't worry lol

wia5958

3rd July 2019, 15:58

Let's not get side tracked here now folks.... but..... Ireland is part of the British Isles geographically, the British isles are made up of two sovereign states.... Anyway back to the topic at hand! :)

Haha I agree I'm done now wherever it runs I hope it's an enjoyable safe event

Mintexmemory

3rd July 2019, 16:44

Rumour is That rally GB will have to change its name to rally UK so as not to offend people cause theres a chance it's not actually gonna be in Britain next year but still in UK so don't worry lol
Ha ha :) Other way round - always be in Britain but there maybe no UK! Reunification of Ireland and Scots independence is the natural outcome of Brexit goes ahead.

wia5958

3rd July 2019, 16:46

Ha ha :) Other way round - always be in Britain but there maybe no UK! Reunification of Ireland and Scots independence is the natural outcome of Brexit goes ahead.

That I do agree with you on mate only a matter of time

TypeR

3rd July 2019, 17:19

Reallyy interesting last pages.. make a brex*hit wrc topic for that

Oliverk

3rd July 2019, 17:45

Mby N.O.T really had a point on certain country?

AL14

3rd July 2019, 18:33

Hyundai joins the race to sign Ott Tanak for the 2020 #WRC season as team boss Andrea Adamo outlines his 'superteam' stance

https://t.co/1C7gKW1YOa

Tanak has already been linked with a possible return to M-Sport, but Autosport's sources indicate Hyundai is fast-becoming the most likely option if Tanak does move next

That is made up from Evans. But I can confirm that Hyundai has made an offer to him.

I hope he will chose wisely. Hyundai is a great car but for several drivers has been difficult if not impossible to drive confidentially, and Thierry has an advantage to drive it for years and knowing all the team.
Best case scenario for him would be a reliable Yaris imho but it seems they are really struggling with that.

mknight

3rd July 2019, 18:37

I hope he will chose wisely. Hyundai is a great car but for several drivers has been difficult if not impossible to drive confidentially.
Best case scenario for him would be a reliable Yaris imho, let's see

Yes, Sordo has not managed to drive it on some rallies, but those are the rallies where he never did good. Paddon struggled on some rallies but he is a not a proved regular top contender. Then Mikkelsen struggled but he has not driven many WRC cars fast only Polo and C3 for 1 rally.....

but Loeb struggling and especially Loeb struggling on tarmac, that should be a huge warning.

I think and hope Tanak could go to MSport.

----------------------------

Tanak to Msport, Ogier winning drivers championship (so that Citroen puts in money for 3rd car) and Hyundai winning manu champ (so they stay, if rumors are true) that would be ideal situation for the championship. Toyota will stay anyway (for at least 2 years) with Rovanpera coming and Katsuta getting some starts.

Worst situation: Toyota and Tanak win, Hyundai leaves, Citroen only continues with 2 cars next season and leaves after Ogier's contract ends and MSport doesn't have/use money on other drives and continues like this year.

AnttiL

3rd July 2019, 18:39

I think and hope Tanak could go to MSport.

I also hope. But I think Mäkinen and Toyoda can make an offer he can't refuse

mknight

3rd July 2019, 18:47

I also hope. But I think Mäkinen and Toyoda can make an offer he can't refuse

...just as I was listening to Godfather soundtrack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-jdl9hcCeg

T16

3rd July 2019, 19:01

I also hope. But I think Mäkinen and Toyoda can make an offer he can't refuse

Which will be a guarantee that they can get on top of the reliability.
He’s not in it for the money right now. He wants to start winning championships and unless they can get the car sorted (especially if what was said by a poster on this forum regarding just how bad it is behind closed doors is accurate) then he’ll be off.
He hasn’t committed his life to his goal to risk missing out just for a pot of cash, nope, he’s hungrier and more frustrated then ever to be a WDC and he’s probably thinking he could get one this year if his car had a blue badge in the front.

Allez Andruet

3rd July 2019, 19:20

He’s not in it for the money right now. He wants to start winning championships and unless they can get the car sorted (especially if what was said by a poster on this forum regarding just how bad it is behind closed doors is accurate) then he’ll be off.

To quote Mike Tyson: everybody has a gameplan until they get punched in the face. And no, I don't mean that Tommi would jump on Tänak, but it's easy not to be in it for the money until you're actually facing a situation where someone's offering you 10M€ a season and the next best offer is for 5M€. Not saying those would precisely be the numbers, but they might not be that far off the ballpark either when it comes to bidding war between M-Sport and Toyota.

T16

3rd July 2019, 19:55

To quote Mike Tyson: everybody has a gameplan until they get punched in the face. And no, I don't mean that Tommi would jump on Tänak, but it's easy not to be in it for the money until you're actually facing a situation where someone's offering you 10M€ a season and the next best offer is for 5M€. Not saying those would precisely be the numbers, but they might not be that far off the ballpark either when it comes to bidding war between M-Sport and Toyota.

When he’s won a WDC, then he might chase the cash.
Right now his priority is a championship and his desire will just be getting stronger the longer it takes.
He’s got plenty of years ahead of him to build his bank balance.

AnttiL

3rd July 2019, 20:01

He’s not in it for the money right now. He wants to start winning championships and unless they can get the car sorted (especially if what was said by a poster on this forum regarding just how bad it is behind closed doors is accurate) then he’ll be off.
He hasn’t committed his life to his goal to risk missing out just for a pot of cash, nope, he’s hungrier and more frustrated then ever to be a WDC and he’s probably thinking he could get one this year if his car had a blue badge in the front.

When he’s won a WDC, then he might chase the cash.
Right now his priority is a championship and his desire will just be getting stronger the longer it takes.
He’s got plenty of years ahead of him to build his bank balance.

This is what I think Ott is thinking too but I'm afraid the stack of millions on the table will be just too high for anyone to skip.

tommeke_B

3rd July 2019, 20:10

Most sensible choice would be to choose for the money, if there's a big difference. Don't forget that with new regulations, everything we have right now could be gone within a few years, and then it's possible that there wouldn't be as much money to make anymore, even if you're the best driver in the world. ;) A smart sportsman knows he has to make a financial "base" for the rest of his life, during those years when he's at his best.

Tarmop

3rd July 2019, 20:16

racerx1979

3rd July 2019, 20:20

If they paid me 2 million more than M-Sport, TGR, Hyundai or Citroen I would drive for the DACIA Romanian Rally Championship Team B.... Money talks...

Also, I hear TGR is not too loose with money so if M-Sport offers Tanak a 2 year contract with a few mill more than the others I doubt TGR will step up and match the offer, but that's just the rumors we have heard.

Andre Oliveira

3rd July 2019, 20:29

https://www.m-sport.co.uk/single-post/2019/07/03/PADDON-TO-FLY-WITH-FIESTA-IN-FINLAND

PADDON TO FLY WITH FIESTA IN FINLAND

July 3, 2019

Hayden Paddon and John Kennard will take to the wheel of the EcoBoost-powered Ford Fiesta WRC at next month’s Neste Rally Finland. Making a welcome return to the FIA World Rally Championship, the New Zealanders will pilot a third M-Sport Ford World Rally Team Fiesta and will be eligible to score manufacturer points for the Cumbrian squad.
Paddon made his first appearance behind the wheel of a world rally car when contesting RallyRACC Catalunya with the Ford Fiesta RS WRC in 2013, and went on to become one of the sport’s most popular and celebrated drivers.
A regular on the world stage, he secured his first podium in 2015 and a maiden victory soon followed with an unforgettable performance at the 2016 edition of Rally Argentina.
Proficient on all surfaces, the Kiwi has eight top-three finishes to his name and will be looking to deliver another strong performance when he returns to the Fiesta for his 80th appearance on the world stage.
Thanks to his backers in New Zealand, Paddon will become the 14th driver to take to the wheel of the top-specification Fiesta at rallying’s highest level – the car which has delivered five FIA World Rally Championships, nine victories and 31 podiums over the past two and a half years.
This will also be Paddon’s tenth appearance at the Finnish fixture, and he and Kennard will complete a one-day test in preparation – familiarising themselves with the award-winning Fiesta and reacquainting themselves with the M-Sport family.

Hayden Paddon said:
“Both John and I are very excited to be back – especially as it has been so hard to watch from the side-lines. M-Sport have been so welcoming even in the short period since this deal has been put together which gives me great confidence that we will be able to work together to achieve a great result on one of my favourite events on the calendar.
“Huge thanks also to our long-term partner Hyundai NZ who have allowed us to take the opportunity and encouraged us. We are lucky to have the support that we do from New Zealand and abroad.”

Team Principal, Richard Millener, said:
“It’s great to see Hayden back in the FIA World Rally Championship, and we’re all excited to see what he can do behind the wheel of the Fiesta. He’s a proven rally winner, and it’s great for us to have a driver of his calibre as we set our sights on another strong performance.
“The deal came together pretty quick, so it’s great that we were able to do something at short notice. Hayden is extremely determined and has the potential to deliver a really exciting performance. Like every rally fan, I’m looking forward to seeing him and John back in the championship!”

racerx1979

3rd July 2019, 20:30

Which will be a guarantee that they can get on top of the reliability.
He’s not in it for the money right now. He wants to start winning championships and unless they can get the car sorted (especially if what was said by a poster on this forum regarding just how bad it is behind closed doors is accurate) then he’ll be off.
He hasn’t committed his life to his goal to risk missing out just for a pot of cash, nope, he’s hungrier and more frustrated then ever to be a WDC and he’s probably thinking he could get one this year if his car had a blue badge in the front.

Things are still bad... they are still have stalling issues with hydraulics.. this is an issue which Lappi complained about several times..
Toyota has money to pay, but if M-Sport rumors of taking a year off and then coming back strong with cash in hand for 2020 are true then maybe M-Sport could give Tanak an offer he cant refuse and TGR can't match.

My 2 cents are JML is booted for Kalle which will save them heaps of money. This money can then be used to keep Tanak. Next year we will see Tanak, Meeke and Rovanpera...

JML to Ford or Hyundai. Remember a lot of teams would love to have an ex TGR driver who can bring some good knowledge.. JML is one of those guys considering he has been there since day one...

Oops!

3rd July 2019, 20:35

Would'nt it be funny if he turned up with Hyundai NZ plastered all over the Fiesta! :D

steve.mandzij

3rd July 2019, 20:47

Things are still bad... they are still have stalling issues with hydraulics.. this is an issue which Lappi complained about several times..
Toyota has money to pay, but if M-Sport rumors of taking a year off and then coming back strong with cash in hand for 2020 are true then maybe M-Sport could give Tanak an offer he cant refuse and TGR can't match.

My 2 cents are JML is booted for Kalle which will save them heaps of money. This money can then be used to keep Tanak. Next year we will see Tanak, Meeke and Rovanpera...

JML to Ford or Hyundai. Remember a lot of teams would love to have an ex TGR driver who can bring some good knowledge.. JML is one of those guys considering he has been there since day one...JML to Ford seems very possible given how much Tommi wants him gone and how badly M-Sport needs a seasoned driver in their lineup to match the rest of the teams. Latvala in Hyundai with Adamo's iron fist tapping on his shoulder sounds like a horrible horrible idea.

Silly season 2020 is going to be very very interesting. If Paddon does well in Finland and keeps up his visibility then we might be looking at Paddon, Katsuta and Rovanpera entering the driver's market to make things interesting.

Regarding inter team moves, I don't really see Tanak going anywhere fast. He's got Toyota's full support and he's basically one with the car at this point. Despite the issues he looks to be getting on well, and the issues likely won't last forever.

Zeakiwi2

3rd July 2019, 20:48

Sponsors for Paddon for Finland likely to be 'Pack n Save' nz grocery stores/supermarkets, 'Z' Energy vehicle fuel supplies, nz fuel stations etc

I have low expectations of Paddon in Finland. New car and been away from the top game for 8 months. Hopefully one of the WRC 2 teams could take Paddon on as a development/ compete at a few 2019 events in Europe type deal.

How many M-Sport WRC Fiestas for Finland? Evans, Suninen, Paddon etc

mknight

3rd July 2019, 20:48

Umh, yes, Hyundai manuf. title would be great and probably necessary, but Ogier taking the WDC? That is dull and injects hoplesness+ why would Citroen use 3rd car then, when they achieve their goals with only two?

If Ogier takes WDC it might convince Citroen bosses that just a bit more money and they can have both titles. But as you said it can also backfire and they will say they have all the publicity with just 2 cars.

On the other hand if he does not take it due to car performance issue they surely won't use any money next year for 3rd car but instead use it to develop the 2 ones.

So based on that reasoning I think it's better that he wins it than if he doesn't.

deephouse

3rd July 2019, 21:09

3 cars should be minimal to even enter the event...

racerx1979

3rd July 2019, 21:13

Would'nt it be funny if he turned up with Hyundai NZ plastered all over the Fiesta! :D

I've seen it many times, but not at such a high level of motorsport. Would be funny. A big Paddon Rallysport sticker would be nice.

Fast Eddie WRC

3rd July 2019, 21:43

Today I heard a rumor that there would be three M-Sport WRC cars. But I don't believe it's Paddon.

Oh yes it is.! ;)

Fast Eddie WRC

3rd July 2019, 21:48

I also hope. But I think Mäkinen and Toyoda can make an offer he can't refuse

Definitely. Its a short career and money talks.

T16

3rd July 2019, 22:08

Definitely. Its a short career and money talks.

You guys are forgetting why these people started doing what they do... They all started with the dream to win the WDC, not to become rich. Maybe once he's won it, then yes, he will maybe go for the cash, but until then, all he wants to do is beat the others to a championship.
Tell me, what does the look in his eyes tell you at the end of each stage? that he's settling for a paycheque, or that all he wants to do is thrash everyone else?
Latvala, Sordo, maybe, but please don't insult Tanak.. he's got more drive than anyone else in the field right now.

Fast Eddie WRC

3rd July 2019, 22:24

Oops!

3rd July 2019, 22:44

I've seen it many times, but not at such a high level of motorsport. Would be funny. A big Paddon Rallysport sticker would be nice.

I've seen it myself also... as you say not at that level.

wrc2017

3rd July 2019, 23:20

Does Wilson have a financial interest in Tanaks career?

Grutz

3rd July 2019, 23:27

I hope I get to see Adamo's face should Paddon be standing on a step above Nueville, Mikkelsen and Breen on the Podium!

cali

4th July 2019, 04:52

mknight

4th July 2019, 05:31

AnttiL

4th July 2019, 05:54

Wrong, big part of the decision was that at Msport he was a clear number 2 and would never be allowed to go for championship as long as they had Ogier. You change it to money only.

Yes, just look what Evans had to do whole year. And Ogier dictated the setup, Evans and Suninen started getting instantly better results this year when they had more freedom in setup and more testing days.

mozesii

4th July 2019, 06:04

1791

Recce 03Jul2019. Today there could be more animals

logic

4th July 2019, 06:05

Tänak jumped ship because he did not want to be the no. 2 guy behind Ogier. Please get your facts straight.

The problem with M-Sport is even if they have the funds to offer competitive salary it would mean that the development proces would be stalled again in order to save money. To win you need the combo of both. Ogier already drove M-Sport almost off the cliff...

Things MIGHT be the same with young Rovenpera in the mix next year.

pantealex

4th July 2019, 06:23

Tanak jumped ship from a championship-winning car/team at M-Sport to join Toyota.

M-Sport was winning team, TGR is winning team.

Ott jumped in right time.

AnttiL

4th July 2019, 06:25

Things MIGHT be the same with young Rovenpera in the mix next year.

Not in a long time for Rovanperä

AnttiL

4th July 2019, 06:31

Sponsors for Paddon for Finland likely to be 'Pack n Save' nz grocery stores/supermarkets, 'Z' Energy vehicle fuel supplies, nz fuel stations etc

This Rally Finland opportunity is being supported by Ben Nevis Station, Cusco, Winmax Brake Pads, PAK'nSAVE and Z Energy.

https://www.hyundai.co.nz/paddon-ready-for-wrc-return-in-finland?fbclid=IwAR2RULWf_wo7lyF6exxAgEGWzB6KgRZJu 6uhQI6Gptk7INCJkfZefxxQxKo

Rallyper

4th July 2019, 08:27

"and a well-funded factory-backed team but no guarantee of success.".

Don´t you think a well-funded factory team is guarantee for success?

wia5958

4th July 2019, 08:33

Don´t you think a well-funded factory team is guarantee for success?

Hyundai... How many years? How many championships?

EstWRC

4th July 2019, 08:56

I hope I get to see Adamo's face should Paddon be standing on a step above Nueville, Mikkelsen and Breen on the Podium!

haha i was thinking the same thing!

excellent news in the morning!!! Finally he is trying to get a drive in some other team, so happy for him. And the icing on the cake is that i will be there and ill see him driving with my own eyes.

and he has kept himself sharp while doing the rounds in NZ. Yes, it isnt the same but at least he hasnt just sat in home and waited. TOP5 would be very good IMO and podium would be fantastic.

T16

4th July 2019, 10:04

Tanak jumped ship from a championship-winning car/team at M-Sport to join Toyota.

They offered a much bigger salary and a well-funded factory-backed team but no guarantee of success. Yet he still signed. Some said it was to cash-in and provide better for his young family.

Another change of team wont guarantee him a title either. But Toyota wages will make him financially secure AND enable him to fight for a title.

No team can offer a guarantee of success, but a driver who wants to win and has a choice of team will choose the team that he sees as most likely to win. M-Sport were fighting for every penny to make a good car and Toyota were about to become a dominant force, in terms of performance and with a proper budget too. And to add to what others have said, you must have forgotten about the Ogier situation at M-Sport.

You're right, another team won't guarantee him a title, but you're wrong in saying Toyota WILL enable him to fight for a title.... they may not and that's the whole point of the Tanak to M-Sport topic.... M-Sport look like they have a bullet proof car, and now one that has some serious pace. Tanak will, again - just as he did before he joined Toyota, decide which car will most likely get him a championship.

It's got bugger all to do with money. If it did, he would be signed up with Toyota right now.

I'd even have a fiver on him taking a pay cut if he goes to M-sport.

AnttiL

4th July 2019, 10:24

M-Sport look like they have a bullet proof car

Not completely. Suninen lost brakes in Portugal, Evans had an electrical glitch in Portugal and a misfire in Wales. Also more engine troubles in early 2017, plus Bouffier's complete engine failure in Corsica 2018, something that's more rare with the current cars.

T16

4th July 2019, 11:00

Not completely. Suninen lost brakes in Portugal, Evans had an electrical glitch in Portugal and a misfire in Wales. Also more engine troubles in early 2017, plus Bouffier's complete engine failure in Corsica 2018, something that's more rare with the current cars.

Fair point about Portugal, but I'm still convinced Evans' Welsh misfire was a 'political' misfire and 2017 / 2018 engine troubles shouldn't really be brought into play now.

On balance, this season, the Ford does look bullet-proof in comparison to the Toyota.

GravelBen

4th July 2019, 11:13

...and he has kept himself sharp while doing the rounds in NZ. Yes, it isnt the same but at least he hasnt just sat in home and waited.

Yes, while the NZ car isn't the same level as WRC (AP4 is around R5 speed) some of the roads here have a similar fast, flowing, crested character which should help (photo from Otago Rally for illustration). And he hasn't been just cruising comfortably, he has been busting a whole bunch of his own stage records to stay sharp.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47646755121_0217e7f8c8_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2fAo5iX)DSC_8805 (https://flic.kr/p/2fAo5iX) by Ben (https://www.flickr.com/photos/gravelben/), on Flickr

pucky54

4th July 2019, 12:14

Speaking about great roads in NZ...bring WRC back!!!

denkimi

4th July 2019, 13:28

Not completely. Suninen lost brakes in Portugal, Evans had an electrical glitch in Portugal and a misfire in Wales. Also more engine troubles in early 2017, plus Bouffier's complete engine failure in Corsica 2018, something that's more rare with the current cars.
Last week in ypres they also didn't restart bouffier due to a faulty engine.

Or atleast that was the official explanation.

Fast Eddie WRC

4th July 2019, 16:11

Wrong, big part of the decision was that at Msport he was a clear number 2 and would never be allowed to go for championship as long as they had Ogier. You change it to money only.

I know he moved to get away from Ogier too, but at the time Tanak wasnt guaranteed to be No.1 at Toyota as Latvala was there from 2017.

And the higher salary was a big factor which cant be denied.

Fast Eddie WRC

4th July 2019, 16:14

On balance, this season, the Ford does look bullet-proof in comparison to the Toyota.

The Ford has had issues with alternator, electrics, overheating etc. And the fact is that the Toyota is the fastest car... so is Tanak really going to leave that for another that may not give him the speed advantage ?

deephouse

4th July 2019, 16:37

They can now afford development when they don't have to pay crying baby his salary. And I think that Tanak could squeeze a way more out of that Fiesta than any other driver who drive that car right now. Evans not yet there and I think he will never do. Suninen - he will probably leave the team for better option when he gets better (if he ever will be). Others are just one off and can't do much about it. But I think if any of the three top calibers would drive it it would be right up there.

Tarmop

4th July 2019, 17:31

Not as much as Mr. Toyoda, who is probably just one phonecall away from his leading driver. Ford`s leadership on the otherhand....probably would take away every penny, if they even can afford it next year.

I know he moved to get away from Ogier too, but at the time Tanak wasnt guaranteed to be No.1 at Toyota as Latvala was there from 2017.

And the higher salary was a big factor which cant be denied.

Now he has put it into use and it is earning itself back...in M-sport, parts were available for Ogier first. Visible to the eye (2018 aero and suspension) or not, because of money. In Toyota there is no problemto build equal cars, nr.1 or nr. 3.

T16

4th July 2019, 21:45

The Ford has had issues with alternator, electrics, overheating etc. And the fact is that the Toyota is the fastest car... so is Tanak really going to leave that for another that may not give him the speed advantage ?

As has been covered already, the Toyota has been, in balance, the most unreliable car so far this year.
To finish first, first you’ve got to finish.
Who knows if he’s going to leave or not, but like I’ve said, he’s got to calculate the risks involved with each team, use his best judgement and hope he’s got it right.
Let’s face it, if he doesn’t win the championship this year, based on what we all expected at the start of the year, it will be a bit of a surprise, to say the least. He will have thought this was going to be his year (it may still be), but it’s not hard to understand right now why he’s probably wishing he’s had the keys to a fiesta since January, not a Yaris.
If he’s got the slightest inclination now that he’ll be feeling the same at this point next year, he’ll be off like a shot.
And fair play to Malcolm if he can get him, he’s certainly dug deep and shown some gritty resolve when his company has been well up against the odds.

wia5958

5th July 2019, 08:23

Or look at the new regs. If going hybrid which brand has most experience in hybrid technology. If I was looking at the bigger picture I'd be in the company with most experience which is Toyota. Plus would Malcolm be able to sustain development on the old car whilst developing a new car?

Fast Eddie WRC

5th July 2019, 15:02

Tanak leaving Toyota at all looks highly unlikely with the money on offer and a fast car; but now there's even Hyundai's Mr Adamo saying he would be happy to take him and create a Super-Team...

I'd love, really love, to have Tanak back home at M-Sport. But I just dont see it happening.

racerx1979

5th July 2019, 17:02

As of right now, Tanak himself prefers to stay at Toyota. He is also in the position to make demands due to his position.

The only question is how much money will the other teams have to offer. I agree with what others have said where if he is offered big bucks from another team and TGR cannot come close, he will leave.

EstWRC

5th July 2019, 18:13

As of right now, Tanak himself prefers to stay at Toyota.

Yep, BUT as for right now

He is also in the position to make demands due to his position.

there have been some jokes in estonian media and forum that Mr.Toyoda will give him a blank sheet of paper and he can write whatever he likes there :D

The only question is how much money will the other teams have to offer. I agree with what others have said where if he is offered big bucks from another team and TGR cannot come close, he will leave.

But who could it be? i cant see any other team making a better (bigger) offer than Toyota, only one who may come close is Hyundai but even Adamo admitted in the autosport article they probably cant afford it. Hyundai already has to pay for Neuville, Mikkelsen, Sordo, Loeb. I cant see Ott in Hyundai anyway.

Tarmop

5th July 2019, 18:14

Even if it`s a worse car and/or includes teammates who are his biggest rivals? How could this fit into his WDC plans?
As he has invested his money and its earning itself back, quite well probably, as TGR/TMR is one of his customers (in a joint-venture with Märtin)...don`t know but possibly he has other good investments also, so a good life after WRC is secured, but how much is the title worth? Not measurable in money i think.

Allez Andruet

5th July 2019, 18:43

there have been some jokes in estonian media and forum that Mr.Toyoda will give him a blank sheet of paper and he can write whatever he likes there

And it probably isn't that far off to be honest. Everyone knows the game; you wanna win, you MUST sign Tänak. Simple as that. I think mr Toyoda is willing to put his hands deeper in his pockets than we've ever seen before in this sport. I'd say Tänak, in his current unbeatable mode, is getting 10+M€ per season for his services in 2020 and beyond. As much as I wish Tänak would go back to M-Sport and make them truly great again, but he simply can not turn down the offer he's likely to receive from Toyota (via Mäkinen ofcourse).

the sniper

5th July 2019, 22:28

Not as much as Mr. Toyoda, who is probably just one phonecall away from his leading driver. Ford`s leadership on the otherhand....probably would take away every penny, if they even can afford it next year.

For me it's this logic that just kills any thought that Tanak could go to M-Sport.

I don't think it's far-fetched to imagine a scenario where Mr Toyoda, as President of the sixth-largest company in the world by revenue, the world's largest automotive manufacturer, gets on a plane and flies to Estonia to personally ask Tanak to stay with Toyota. I can also imagine that James Hackett, President and CEO of Ford, has no idea who Tanak is...

On the basis of current cars and team performance alone, you can make an argument for him moving to M-Sport. But looking at the bigger picture, it'd be ridiculous for him to leave, even if M-Sport could get major backing from a big sponsor like Monster Energy.

GigiGalliNo1

6th July 2019, 08:17

I'm surprized that M-Sport don't get Monster... or DC or any of Block's companies! Mind Blown!

Tarmop

6th July 2019, 09:00

DC is not Block`s owned anymore if i remember correctly.

Japé

6th July 2019, 10:09

+ RedBull Media House blocks or at least heavily limits competitor visibility, like seen in Catalonia 2018 with P.Solberg & Block

racerx1979

6th July 2019, 11:24

Japanese mentality is extremely different and complicated for most to understand. I'm married to one and spend a lot of time in Japan. I told my wife Mr Toyoda will pay Tanak whatever he wants. She told me first Tanak has to show he is loyal to TGR and then he will get rewarded (but it sounds harsh when written). If he says openly he is talking to other teams before making a decision it will come out as if he's only in this for himself and would be a foolish thing to do in Japanese culture. Surely, Toyoda-San understands that Tanak does not know any Japanese customs, but the higher ups don't always have the same mentality.

Trust me, I'm surprised the way Japanese culture works. I do love many aspects of it, but some are very different. The food is amazing and people are beyond kind. If you haven't already paid a visit, you must add it to your list. That being said it is very difficult to do business with the Japanese. They have specific ways to do things and if you want to change things even for the better, everybody gets confused and hesitant. They're a conformist culture. One of the few countries with 0% interest, but that's a different topic. Maybe Mr Toyoda is an evolved Japanese with different thinking, but if his higher ups are traditional it would not matter much.

Tanak's personality is always to be quiet and straight forward so it should be okay. One of the engineers at TGR told my wife in Japanese that they really like Finnish mentality as some ways are very similar to Japanese. He also said Finnish people like to have alone time and be quiet which they really admire and can relate too. I think this is a major reason why Toyoda chose TMR to run TGR. They get along quite well in many ways. Maybe I'm using too many acronyms or this is just TMI ;). And yes I know Tanak is Estonian, but he is a calm dude when compared to Meeke and JML who are pretty fired up and crazy lol.

My guess for 2020 is Tanak, Meeke and Kalle. This I think is the current plan unless Meeke and Tanak go elsewhere.