[WRC] News & rumours (part IV) 2016

[Mintexmemory]

Thanks for posting the link. I'd suggest people just read it as the synopsis you gave doesn't really reflect what is actually said in the piece.

Indeed 'have a place on the calendar' is not the same as 'we can go elsewhere if Coffs Coast withdraw support, because other councils are queuing up to take the event.'
I imagine it would be too late to re-schedule this year - surely the inclusion in the approved calendar should be dependent on the finance already being in place. What are the FIA playing about at?

[EstWRC]

Camilli under pressure and Evans to get a drive for Toyota or M-sport again

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123877/camilli-under-pressure-after-tough-start

http://www.blackmorevale.co.uk/Elfyn-Evans-impress-Toyota-Ford-Rally-Argentina/story-29151429-detail/story.html

[GigiGalliNo1]

One of the clowns explaining why he voted against Rally Australia..

http://www.2csfm.com.au/news/blog/2016/4/councillor-mark-sultana-explains-his-position-on-the-rally-vote/

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

One of the clowns explaining why he voted against Rally Australia..

http://www.2csfm.com.au/news/blog/2016/4/councillor-mark-sultana-explains-his-position-on-the-rally-vote/
The reason is noise, as usual..(I miss Perth)

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

[GigiGalliNo1]

Evans eyes M-Sport and Toyota

http://blackmorevale.co.uk/Elfyn-Evans-impress-Toyota-Ford-Rally-Argentina/story-29151429-detail/story.html

[N.O.T]

He had a whole year to impress anyone he wanted to now its too late.

[leighton323]

He had a whole year to impress anyone he wanted to now its too late.
Yeah but he seems to be the fastest non-wrc driver at the moment

[N.O.T]

Yeah but he seems to be the fastest non-wrc driver at the moment

then he should stick to non-wrc cars.

[leighton323]

then he should stick to non-wrc cars.
So if the fastest person not in a wrc car should stick to non-wrc cars then aren't you defeating the point you always make about teams not picking the fastest drivers

[dodge33cymru]

Genuine question N.O.T.:

Next year there will be at least 10 factory cars (more likely 12 or 13 on some rounds, assuming Toyota turns up).

All other factors aside, which 10 current drivers (participating in rallies in 2016) would you say should fill those seats, on a purely 'by talent' basis?

I'm genuinely curious to know, seeing as you frequently put down all but the top 2 or 3 and teams that consider other drivers, as to who you think should be in the factory seats.

[kirungi okwogera]

Genuine question N.O.T.:

Next year there will be at least 10 factory cars (more likely 12 or 13 on some rounds, assuming Toyota turns up).

All other factors aside, which 10 current drivers (participating in rallies in 2016) would you say should fill those seats, on a purely 'by talent' basis?

I'm genuinely curious to know, seeing as you frequently put down all but the top 2 or 3 and teams that consider other drivers, as to who you think should be in the factory seats.

Good question, I want to hear it from the Greek god's mouth.

unrelated, this quote from that Elfyn Evans article is funny:


Esapekka Lappi of Finland. He has flown to Argentina specially to complete the two-day recce of this year's event. He could be available and he could even teach Evans a trick or two.

"It was a long way to come," he told me. "But it was important. I hired a rental car and I looked at every stage. Unfortunately I think I broke something on the car's suspension. But then that's ok because the rental agreement is in my co-driver's name."

[Duvel]

Fun way off thinking about 2017 line up.

If i was in charge, this would be line up. (forgetting contracts, and not being realistic).

Citroen: Meeke / Neuville / Bergkvist
VW: Mikkelsen / Latvalla / Lappi
M-sport: Ogier / Tanak
Hyundai: Paddon / Abring / Sordo
Toyota: Ostberg / Tidemand

As i said, it's not realistic that way, Ogier will never go to M-sport. I do think this way we would have the best line-up's for close battles.

If Loeb wants to do a full season again, someone will have to go. Also Petter Solberg could still have his place.

[Rallyper]

Fun way off thinking about 2017 line up.

If i was in charge, this would be line up. (forgetting contracts, and not being realistic).

Citroen: Meeke / Neuville / Bergkvist
VW: Mikkelsen / Latvalla / Lappi
M-sport: Ogier / Tanak
Hyundai: Paddon / Abring / Sordo
Toyota: Ostberg / Tidemand

As i said, it's not realistic that way, Ogier will never go to M-sport. I do think this way we would have the best line-up's for close battles.

If Loeb wants to do a full season again, someone will have to go. Also Petter Solberg could still have his place.

As a swede it´s a smasher!!!

[Rally Power]

Evans did a good season in ’14 but didn’t managed to progress during ’15 like expected. As it was already said, this season step back could be positive for him in order to regain confidence and show all his abilities.

That’s what he’s been doing, with amazing exhibitions in WRC2 and BRC. Probably during this year Wilson will promote Evans back to the WRC team, securing him from other teams proposals.

Btw, Suninen’s also in Argentina and has done the recce. https://twitter.com/teemusuninenrac

[Toyoda]

Evans did a good season in ’14 but didn’t managed to progress during ’15 like expected. As it was already said, this season step back could be positive for him in order to regain confidence and show all his abilities.

That’s what he’s been doing, with amazing exhibitions in WRC2 and BRC. Probably during this year Wilson will promote Evans back to the WRC team, securing him from other teams proposals.

Btw, Suninen’s also in Argentina and has done the recce. https://twitter.com/teemusuninenrac

Evans needs to be in a French designed car to suit his less flamboyant driving style, I feel teams don't put enough importance on matching driving style with car design, picking the right driver for the car is key.

[BleAivano]

So have anyone heard any kind of news/rumours regarding next years Swedish Rally? It seems that it has been very quiet so far.

[Luijbregts]

Why should there be news ? Organizer signed a 3 year deal with WRC. The only thing they are looking at is moving some of the SS areabut this news will probably not come before December.

[BleAivano]

Why should there be news ? Organizer signed a 3 year deal with WRC. The only thing they are looking at is moving
some of the SS areabut this news will probably not come before December.

IIRC, there were allot of things that they had to fix before the end of April. Things such as a solid plan for snow guarantee and how they would plan for it.
So that likely mean that they have to decide now which stages that will be moved for 2017 and possible if the entire rally will be moved for 2018/19.

Even if not everything is intended for public release there usually are leaks and rumours and etc.

[Rally Power]

More info about Subaru/Prodrive Man TT partnership: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/industry-news/subaru/a-match-made-in-heaven-subaru-and-prodrive-team-up-for-tt-record-attempt/

[jbmarcus21]

New test with Abbring-Marshall with new i20R5
Full gallery => http://goo.gl/glm0Ug

[EstWRC]

Motorsport News ‏@MNRally 3m3 minutes ago
Also included; @ElfynEvans is closer than ever to a #WRC return and this year's Drive @DMACK_Tyres Fiesta Trophy drivers are revealed


anybody here has this magazine? i think Simmi had it? i would like to know more about this Evans story.

[Eli]

wasn't sure where to put this: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123994/wrc-becoming-a-joke--ogier but has anyone seen this???

[EstWRC]

Yeah, it was posted a moments ago...nothing new really.

[sindroms]

wasn't sure where to put this: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123994/wrc-becoming-a-joke--ogier but has anyone seen this???

SHE starts to annoy me with HER eternal dissatisfaction...

[GigiGalliNo1]

Will post up screen shots of the magazine here soon. Waiting for iPad to reboot.

[GigiGalliNo1]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160427/ab361e19366f11e01daec73db61914b3.jpg

[EstWRC]

thank you! And like i expected nothing is confirmed, just a talk. And it would be just for a one round if i understand correctly.

[COD]

wasn't sure where to put this: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123994/wrc-becoming-a-joke--ogier but has anyone seen this???

After some other event I would understand this a bit better, but now after he was beaten on the last stage with equal starting position, it is really sore looser whining. Sure he could argue, that he would have been way ahead before that with other position, but how exiting would that be then? Besides, from 1960 to beginning of 2000, it was allways the fastest starting first and nobody complained before Burns and Sainz started in Australia first and then it just became an infection. Sure, the rallies were longer back then and timedifferences bigger, but still.
The regulations have also created this "problem". The aerodynamics and other things that create ridicolous amount of grip favour those running on clean road. So like I have said before, wings to minimum, suspension travel limit and less grip from tyres and so many "problems" would dissappear.

[danon]

http://s5.postimg.org/53giis9mt/Ogier_Whining.jpg

[Mintexmemory]

SHE starts to annoy me with HER eternal dissatisfaction...

Now you can dislike Ogier's perpetual 'victimised' act but a) Can we avoid sexist comments... and b) Never doubt that whatever you think of him as an individual no one that has seen him in action would deny he has Les couilles d'acien

[danon]

http://s5.postimg.org/ilnev2ls7/Paddon_vs_Ogier.jpg

[Nornbugger]

After some other event I would understand this a bit better, but now after he was beaten on the last stage with equal starting position, it is really sore looser whining. Sure he could argue, that he would have been way ahead before that with other position, but how exiting would that be then? Besides, from 1960 to beginning of 2000, it was allways the fastest starting first and nobody complained before Burns and Sainz started in Australia first and then it just became an infection. Sure, the rallies were longer back then and timedifferences bigger, but still.
The regulations have also created this "problem". The aerodynamics and other things that create ridicolous amount of grip favour those running on clean road. So like I have said before, wings to minimum, suspension travel limit and less grip from tyres and so many "problems" would dissappear.

Leader starting 1st on each day was rather different to championship leader starting 1st everyday except sunday which is only a 1/2 day anyway. Greater tyre freedom also gave the leader more chances to do something from 1st on the road

[N.O.T]

The regulations have also created this "problem". The aerodynamics and other things that create ridicolous amount of grip favour those running on clean road. So like I have said before, wings to minimum, suspension travel limit and less grip from tyres and so many "problems" would dissappear.

so the solution is to make cars slower, reducing corner speed, making them look like everyday cages rather than machines of war and other useless crap like that...

and instead of the sweeper to lose 10seconds in 20kms he would lose 7... because no matter the grip levels when a tyre meets a peeble that can roll.... it will spin...

go away and take Latvala with you.

[Rally Power]

Now you can dislike Ogier's perpetual 'victimised' act but a) Can we avoid sexist comments... and b) Never doubt that whatever you think of him as an individual no one that has seen him in action would deny he has Les couilles d'acien

c) WRC was never a popularity contest. What matters are the road achievements, and Ogier results are outstanding.

Seriously, last weekend Paddon and Hyundai managed to deliver an epic win (hopefully the first of many for Paddon) which will forever figure in WRC roll of honor, like those of Ogier and VW. The rest are peanuts (penates, like SCP coach says...).

[N.O.T]

wasn't sure where to put this: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123994/wrc-becoming-a-joke--ogier but has anyone seen this???

he still cries because his real rival has done so many in so little time that the numbers cannot work out for him to beat him despite the circumstances being 10 times more favourable... tough luck.

[stefanvv]

c) WRC was never a popularity contest.

If everyone speak just pr stuff and everything seems fine, well it would actually be boring, funny situation, isn't it.

[N.O.T]

Genuine question N.O.T.:

Next year there will be at least 10 factory cars (more likely 12 or 13 on some rounds, assuming Toyota turns up).

All other factors aside, which 10 current drivers (participating in rallies in 2016) would you say should fill those seats, on a purely 'by talent' basis?

I'm genuinely curious to know, seeing as you frequently put down all but the top 2 or 3 and teams that consider other drivers, as to who you think should be in the factory seats.

there you go... i am a gracious god.

1.Ogier
2.Mikkelsen
3.Paddon
4.Sordo (maybe)
5.Tanak (tanak in a strong team where he does not have to overdrive to achieve results, if he crashes again all the time kick)
6.Lukyanuk (test for 2 years)
7.Breen (test for 2 years)
8.Lappi (test for 2 years)
9.Meeke (one last chance then kick)
10.Neuville (one last chance then kick to outer space in a galaxy far far away so we never have to deal with his hideous trendy glasses)
11.Abbring (test for 1 year then kick)
12.Bergvist (test for long term 3-4 years just so rallyper does not send ninjas against me)
13.Parn (long term plan 3-4 years)

[Andre Oliveira]

Reply to Doidos por Rally portuguese facebook page

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13076565_963727303724047_9050001460713583323_n.jpg ?oh=49623c38f91a37b52e5d296f5c6a96e8&oe=57A98AD6

[Rallyper]

there you go... i am a gracious god.

1.Ogier
2.Mikkelsen
3.Paddon
4.Sordo (maybe)
5.Tanak (tanak in a strong team where he does not have to overdrive to achieve results, if he crashes again all the time kick)
6.Lukyanuk (test for 2 years)
7.Breen (test for 2 years)
8.Lappi (test for 2 years)
9.Meeke (one last chance then kick)
10.Neuville (one last chance then kick to outer space in a galaxy far far away so we never have to deal with his hideous trendy glasses)
11.Abbring (test for 1 year then kick)
12.Bergvist (test for long term 3-4 years just so rallyper does not send ninjas against me)
13.Parn (long term plan 3-4 years)

Oh oh! You forgot Tidemand! Don´t be safe. ;) And Bergkvist doesn´t need more than two years.

[itix]

Now you can dislike Ogier's perpetual 'victimised' act but a) Can we avoid sexist comments... and b) Never doubt that whatever you think of him as an individual no one that has seen him in action would deny he has Les couilles d'acien

I second the avoidance of sexist comments... few motor sports are as free from sexism as Rally so can we please not fall into the same hole as all the others!

...also, this whole running order debate is older than old. It is the world's most natural handicap system and if Ogier had had mechanical problems the first three rounds he would not complain because he would not run first on the road (...but I have a feeling he would complain about VW instead... it is all he ever do... I really Miss Loeb).

[Toyoda]

there you go... i am a gracious god.

1.Ogier
2.Mikkelsen
3.Paddon
4.Sordo (maybe)
5.Tanak (tanak in a strong team where he does not have to overdrive to achieve results, if he crashes again all the time kick)
6.Lukyanuk (test for 2 years)
7.Breen (test for 2 years)
8.Lappi (test for 2 years)
9.Meeke (one last chance then kick)
10.Neuville (one last chance then kick to outer space in a galaxy far far away so we never have to deal with his hideous trendy glasses)
11.Abbring (test for 1 year then kick)
12.Bergvist (test for long term 3-4 years just so rallyper does not send ninjas against me)
13.Parn (long term plan 3-4 years)

Cool list NOT

I still have hopes than Evans can foot it in a WRC car after he has built some confidence back up and if he is matched well with car and driver.
Completely agree with Ott, he needs to be in a top car.

I'm looking forward to seeing if NZ's Ben Hunt and David Holder can get in to WRC2 at some stage for a real test.

Camilli's progression has been ruined by Malcom IMO, can't believe he has not done a full WRC2 campaign first, Surely Paddon is a good model of progression to follow.

[Mintexmemory]

I second the avoidance of sexist comments... few motor sports are as free from sexism as Rally so can we please not fall into the same hole as all the others!

...also, this whole running order debate is older than old. It is the world's most natural handicap system and if Ogier had had mechanical problems the first three rounds he would not complain because he would not run first on the road (...but I have a feeling he would complain about VW instead... it is all he ever do... I really Miss Loeb).

Great post until 'Miss Loeb' (as opposed to 'miss Loeb'- being married it should be Mrs is the correct title)

[andyone]

I second the avoidance of sexist comments... few motor sports are as free from sexism as Rally so can we please not fall into the same hole as all the others!

...also, this whole running order debate is older than old. It is the world's most natural handicap system and if Ogier had had mechanical problems the first three rounds he would not complain because he would not run first on the road (...but I have a feeling he would complain about VW instead... it is all he ever do... I really Miss Loeb).

True ,i think the current system is good for the current WRC. we dont want one person to win all the Time. i Agree Ogier is the Best Driver at the moment. but then it shoulnt be too easy for him. let him win in a hard way.

[Mirek]

Martin Koči confirmed today that he takes part in JWRC. Besides that he will do 4 events in Czech championship starting tomorrow with Rally Šumava.

[AndyRAC]

True ,i think the current system is good for the current WRC. we dont want one person to win all the Time. i Agree Ogier is the Best Driver at the moment. but then it shoulnt be too easy for him. let him win in a hard way.

It's a World Championship - if the same person keeps winning = TOUGH!! Having artificial schemes to make the competition closer just demeans the sport. It's up to the others to get closer and raise their game.

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124001/makinen-starts-testing-2017-toyota-wrc-car

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124011/rally-australia-funding-row-diffused

[EstWRC]

Mads about his problems http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124007/ostberg-and-msport-at-odds-over-poor-pace

[Jack4688`]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124011/rally-australia-funding-row-diffused

Booooo! Cut the funding and cut the event

[Jack4688`]

Les couilles d'acien


Not all of us learned French at school, show off...

[GigiGalliNo1]

Rally Australia gets support from Council for 2016/17 in Coffs.

State Government has Supported it.

Local City/Town were the problem before but now they're all GOOD.

Shame, they all knew NZ were going to Pounce!!!!

[COD]

so the solution is to make cars slower, reducing corner speed, making them look like everyday cages rather than machines of war and other useless crap like that...

and instead of the sweeper to lose 10seconds in 20kms he would lose 7... because no matter the grip levels when a tyre meets a peeble that can roll.... it will spin...

go away and take Latvala with you.

I'm no fan of Latvala, so you can have him. Better that any driver you have produced ever, even with all his mistekes.

Yes, make cars slower in corners. More power, less grip. This will unfortunately happen anyway in next few years, because we will have a Toivonen tragedy all over again soon, because of the ridicoulous corner speeds the cars of 2017 will have.

[dupanton]

Not all of us learned French at school, show off...

And it even isn't correct :p
Should be "acier"

[rallyfiend]

I'm no fan of Latvala, so you can have him. Better that any driver you have produced ever, even with all his mistekes.

Yes, make cars slower in corners. More power, less grip. This will unfortunately happen anyway in next few years, because we will have a Toivonen tragedy all over again soon, because of the ridicoulous corner speeds the cars of 2017 will have.

A return to single tyre supplier with a rock-hard, single choice like the not so long ago Pirelli era would solve many problems...

[jbmarcus21]

Official VW drivers testing new Polo Wrc 2017 in French tarmac ➡ http://goo.gl/XeBcRl

[AL14]

there you go... i am a gracious god.

1.Ogier
2.Mikkelsen
3.Paddon
4.Sordo (maybe)
5.Tanak (tanak in a strong team where he does not have to overdrive to achieve results, if he crashes again all the time kick)
6.Lukyanuk (test for 2 years)
7.Breen (test for 2 years)
8.Lappi (test for 2 years)
9.Meeke (one last chance then kick)
10.Neuville (one last chance then kick to outer space in a galaxy far far away so we never have to deal with his hideous trendy glasses)
11.Abbring (test for 1 year then kick)
12.Bergvist (test for long term 3-4 years just so rallyper does not send ninjas against me)
13.Parn (long term plan 3-4 years)

I must say I have enjoyed it.
But I think that, following your "kick" policy, Mikkelsen should be one to kick too if he manages to get hordes of third places for another year.
Oh and I think Sordo should be also "thankful to god" if he is in that list. :)

[Francis44]

Silly me wrong thread.

[car]

there you go... i am a gracious god.

1.Ogier
2.Mikkelsen
3.Paddon
4.Sordo (maybe)
5.Tanak (tanak in a strong team where he does not have to overdrive to achieve results, if he crashes again all the time kick)
6.Lukyanuk (test for 2 years)
7.Breen (test for 2 years)
8.Lappi (test for 2 years)
9.Meeke (one last chance then kick)
10.Neuville (one last chance then kick to outer space in a galaxy far far away so we never have to deal with his hideous trendy glasses)
11.Abbring (test for 1 year then kick)
12.Bergvist (test for long term 3-4 years just so rallyper does not send ninjas against me)
13.Parn (long term plan 3-4 years)

I think Meeke deserves to be higher than 9 NOT... or have I got the wrong end of the stick? is this list basically a ranking of talent, or who you think deserves a seat?

Cheers...

[N.O.T]

I think Meeke deserves to be higher than 9 NOT... or have I got the wrong end of the stick? is this list basically a ranking of talent, or who you think deserves a seat?

Cheers...

this is no ranking, just the people who in my opinion (which is basically a fact since i am awesome) should have a drive/chance at the top of the sport

[tommeke_B]

Breen and Parn, seriously?

[Mintexmemory]

And it even isn't correct :p
Should be "acier"

merci beaucoup (erreur typographique)

[Mintexmemory]

Breen and Parn, seriously?

Breen certainly - just needs the Lundaferet touch!!

[N.O.T]

Breen and Parn, seriously?

I think every driver who is remotely fast deserves a proper chance (not that useless one offs who are nothing and mean nothing), you never know what you end up with... i am not against giving chances, i am against of staying there without hope.

[Nornbugger]

Breen certainly - just needs the Lundaferet touch!!

He certainly does need to tidy his driving up and cut down on small errors, seems a bright lad so hopefully he is getting help with driving.

[EstWRC]

i was also surprised to see Breen and Pärn in N.O.T's list. Okay Breen i understand somehow after Sweden but i would put Kruuda instead of Pärn in to the list.

[Jack4688`]

I think every driver who is remotely fast deserves a proper chance (not that useless one offs who are nothing and mean nothing), you never know what you end up with... i am not against giving chances, i am against of staying there without hope.

That's the most sensible thing you've ever said, no mention of sick dogs either

[N.O.T]

i was also surprised to see Breen and Pärn in N.O.T's list. Okay Breen i understand somehow after Sweden but i would put Kruuda instead of Pärn in to the list.

you would probably put every Estonian person with a drivers licence in a WRC if you could.

[janvanvurpa]

you would probably put every Estonian person with a drivers licence in a WRC if you could.

Maybe if they put half in the fields might be better.

[EstWRC]

you would probably put every Estonian person with a drivers licence in a WRC if you could.

lol...i would not, i wouldnt even put Kruuda in that list, i just would put him instead of Pärn in your list because at the moment he is definitely faster than Pärn and he has more experience. Breen is still an unknown for me. Otherwise i agree with your list.

[jbmarcus21]

Marcus & Timo at the gravel start line with new Polo Wrc 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGoYa7aORGg

[wia5958]

lol...i would not, i wouldnt even put Kruuda in that list, i just would put him instead of Pärn in your list because at the moment he is definitely faster than Pärn and he has more experience. Breen is still an unknown for me. Otherwise i agree with your list.

I think people tend to forget breen was an swrc champion at just 22 and also a wrc academy winner. The potential is very much there if he can continue to develop he may not become a champion but id be fairly sure he could create some fine perfomances and podiums should be acheivable aim

[JakefromWRC]

News & rumours IV: A New Hope.

The greatest movie parody ever.

[Mintexmemory]

lol...i would not, i wouldnt even put Kruuda in that list, i just would put him instead of Pärn in your list because at the moment he is definitely faster than Pärn and he has more experience. Breen is still an unknown for me. Otherwise i agree with your list.

Just to comment on Breen's potential - He won the Fiesta challenge as a teenager, I first saw him on his prize drive at Catalunya 2009. His car control was clearly very good. I have followed his career since and you cannot underestimate some of the performances he has produced, especially the Academy winning drive in Wales. SWRC was won with Paul Nagle in the year he was still coming to terms with the loss of Jaffa. In a Skoda last year he would've won ERC, instead the 208 let him down repeatedly.
He has the same ability as Paddon or Tanak, I hope he gets the right WRC rides to show that.

[jbmarcus21]

Abbring testing again 3 days in gravel sardegna .. video + photos http://goo.gl/3vbEW0

[BleAivano]

Britain's round of the World Rally Championship has been cast into doubt along with the rest of Welsh rallying after a deal to use government-owned forests fell through.
The Motor Sport Association and National Resource Wales have been in negotiations for a new master agreement for rallying's use of Welsh forest roads, but NRW is asking
for an increase of over 90 per cent in fees

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124101/rally-gb-2016-in-doubt-amid-welsh-forest-row

"Britain's round of the World Rally Championship has been cast into doubt". Meh. I doubt the doubt. They will solve it.
Like everything else the fees will be negotiated and the finalized fee will be lover then the one they've announced now but
higher then the one used in the current agreement.

[Simmi]

Hopefully it can get sorted, but this does seem like a very legitimate threat and issue. It's not some hype drummed up by the media. Here's the open letter from the MSA that went out yesterday - https://www.msauk.org/Open-letter-from-the-MSA-Chief-Executive

[rallyfiend]

I imagine it's not a problem for the WRC event. After all, that event is funded by the Welsh Govt - so this money just flows one to the other.

But for the smaller events...

[AndyRAC]

As I said on the British Rallying thread, I'm more bothered about the smaller/ national events - which are the backbone of the sport. RallyGB doesn't have to be held in Wales....

[dimviii]

John Key
‏@johnkeypm

Great to meet Kiwi rally driver and WRC Rally Argentina winner @haydenpaddon.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChleUEbXEAIjuA8.jpg

Hayden Paddon ‏@HaydenPaddon

Hayden Paddon Retweet John Key

The NZ government supports #BringBackWRCRallyNZ. More to follow soon ��

[Jack4688`]

It's not some hype drummed up by the media

That autosport article hasn't got David Evans' signature on it, otherwise it would have 100% been false hype shite.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChoynhDW0AEb2HB.jpg:large

[Eli]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChoynhDW0AEb2HB.jpg:large

can we see the inside story please??? thankyou very much

[AndyRAC]

Rallying in crisis. A shame but maybe if the governing body were a bit more proactive rather than reactive all the time it might help. I've often said it, but I get the impression the rallying is a pain for them - and they'd prefer if people went circuit racing.

[RAS007]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChoynhDW0AEb2HB.jpg:large

Rallying has been in crisis for about the last 10 years. This isn't news.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rallying has been in crisis for about the last 10 years. This isn't news.

Aye, but just when it was starting to look better with Rally GB improved, more R5 cars around & the BRC back in action... we get this.

Only in Wales though, so we still have England & even Scotland ! ;)

[Maui J.]

Off the topic and not quite sure where to ask this question or if it's been discussed before, but do the current crop of WRC cars have a place in the 2017 championship and onwards.
Are they still be able to complete in WRC events? Not for points obviously, but can a gentleman driver for example enter a 2016 Fiesta or DS3 in the 2017 Monte Carlo? Will they be redundant as far as World Rally is concerned at the end of 2016.

[N.O.T]

Off the topic and not quite sure where to ask this question or if it's been discussed before, but do the current crop of WRC cars have a place in the 2017 championship and onwards.
Are they still be able to complete in WRC events? Not for points obviously, but can a gentleman driver for example enter a 2016 Fiesta or DS3 in the 2017 Monte Carlo? Will they be redundant as far as World Rally is concerned at the end of 2016.

did you see any WRC cars with the old 2Lt engines when the 1600 ones started in any WRC events ?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Hrmmmmmm.....

[wia5958]

did you see any WRC cars with the old 2Lt engines when the 1600 ones started in any WRC events ?

No u didn cause the 2ltr cars had an advantage over the new cars. Were group a cars still allowed to enter wrc rounds when the first wr cars came out i believe they were.

[Maui J.]

did you see any WRC cars with the old 2Lt engines when the 1600 ones started in any WRC events ?

So obviously you don't know the answer either, but you thought you would just type something.
18000 posts by you in 16 years, the long winter nights must just fly by.

[N.O.T]

So obviously you don't know the answer either, but you thought you would just type something.
18000 posts by you in 16 years, the long winter nights must just fly by.

the answer is NO, you will not see the old cars on a WRC event.

[rallyfiend]

the answer is NO, you will not see the old cars on a WRC event.

Actually, I think you're wrong.

I believe the FIA is considering a second tier 'cup' for the old cars...

[N.O.T]

Actually, I think you're wrong.

I believe the FIA is considering a second tier 'cup' for the old cars...

with the current rules they will not be on a WRC stage...

IF we start imagining things and taking into account considerations even group B cars could take part in 2017.

And people how many times do i have to repeat this ? I am never wrong... the reality you just live in is just not good enough.

[pantealex]

Off the topic and not quite sure where to ask this question or if it's been discussed before, but do the current crop of WRC cars have a place in the 2017 championship and onwards.
Are they still be able to complete in WRC events? Not for points obviously, but can a gentleman driver for example enter a 2016 Fiesta or DS3 in the 2017 Monte Carlo? Will they be redundant as far as World Rally is concerned at the end of 2016.

Yes you can, all 1.6T WRC are eligible 2017, for points also, just like you can points now with WRC2/R5 car.

[dodge33cymru]

Yeah, banning the old cars only makes sense when the new ones have their speeds cut. In this case, they're making them quicker so makes perfect sense to allow them in, just as R5 cars caused RRCs to die, but R4s are still eligible.

[dimviii]

Drivers of 2017 World Rally Cars must be approved by FIA



The use of 2017's faster-than-ever World Rally Cars will be restricted to drivers the FIA feels are competent enough to compete in them.

There has been concern in the service park about the increased speed from the new cars, prompting calls from the current top-line drivers to restrict access.

Some drivers mooted the potential for a Formula 1-style superlicence for rallying - but the FIA's rally director Jarmo Mahonen says he does not want go down that route.

Instead he will implement strict controls on the use of cars by any driver lacking in experience.

"What about guys like Bryan Bouffier?" Mahonen said.

"These guys do one or two rallies per year. [Robert] Kubica is another one.

"We don't want to have a rule where we are always having to bring a waiver, so I would rather not go with the superlicence.

"We have to control these cars, but I would rather do it a softer way than the superlicence.

"Those cars will only be used by drivers entered by a manufacturer and approved by us. This gives us control."

Manufacturers will have to supply the FIA with driver details, with the governing body then giving a final decision on whether or not they can be entered for WRC rounds.

Mahonen said the FIA would turn down any driver who was "putting his £1million on the table to drive the 2017 car".

"Today, you can put down the money and drive the car and we have no control over that," he added.

"We will look at the merits of each driver who applies.

"Do we want the so-called gentleman drivers coming with these cars? No, we don't.

"And nor do we want the 18-year-old drivers coming and doing their first world championship round in one of these either."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124119/fia-to-restrict-drivers-of-2017-wrc-machines?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[dodge33cymru]

I trust Julien Maurin and Sam Moffat not to bin a WRC car much more than I would Kubica, but I take their point; a minimum amount of R5 experience would be fair.

[Andre Oliveira]

So, with that "aproval" maybe is time to bring back 3 cars team, best 2 to points without nomeation, rule back :)

[itix]

Drivers of 2017 World Rally Cars must be approved by FIA



The use of 2017's faster-than-ever World Rally Cars will be restricted to drivers the FIA feels are competent enough to compete in them.

There has been concern in the service park about the increased speed from the new cars, prompting calls from the current top-line drivers to restrict access.
[...]
"Today, you can put down the money and drive the car and we have no control over that," he added.

"We will look at the merits of each driver who applies.

"Do we want the so-called gentleman drivers coming with these cars? No, we don't.

"And nor do we want the 18-year-old drivers coming and doing their first world championship round in one of these either."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124119/fia-to-restrict-drivers-of-2017-wrc-machines?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I saw that and I think it is bullshit. Msport literally lives on this kind of customer coming in and coughing up his or her 500 000£ to drive. Would that mean that Msport would have to register as a manufacturer to compete?

Rallying has always been about the fact that any old nut can come and compete in equal machinery as the manufacturers... this is beyond stupid :(

[tc10a]

According to http://www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/nachrichten/artikel/d/2016/04/26/was-passiert-eigentlich-mit-den-aktuellen-wrc-2017/ a "Cup for the old generation cars" for privatiers etc. is in discussion for 2017. Quite sure we will still see some 2016 cars at the beginning of 2017 season.

[danon]

http://s32.postimg.org/3ziig2ayt/MMRS.jpg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pbjOKgndzM)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pbjOKgndzM

[rallyfiend]

I saw that and I think it is bullshit. Msport literally lives on this kind of customer coming in and coughing up his or her 500 000£ to drive. Would that mean that Msport would have to register as a manufacturer to compete?

Rallying has always been about the fact that any old nut can come and compete in equal machinery as the manufacturers... this is beyond stupid :(

I doubt M-Sport has had a customer for a WRC car in the last 3 years that the FIA would say 'no' to being able to drive one.

I can't think of any.

They tend not to get many customers that don't have a substantial history of top rallying.

[janvanvurpa]

I doubt M-Sport has had a customer for a WRC car in the last 3 years that the FIA would say 'no' to being able to drive one.

I can't think of any.

They tend not to get many customers that don't have a substantial history of top rallying.


What?
Are you serious?

What's that Merikuhn guy with the stupid baseball hat
Ben Klock...or something like that...He'd done ZERO top stuff against a few guys with garage built cars....essentially nothing and he plopped down 4-5 million--Sterling on the table- and PRESTO!

Press releases flooded every blog, site/forum/
"Factory Driver!"
He flipped on 1st second or maaaybe 3rd stage for several YEARS..

And there's been piles of others...just don't recall names cause they were just rich guys sons. Did nothing and disappeared. (leaving the money behind, of course)

[Rally Power]

I saw that and I think it is bullshit. Msport literally lives on this kind of customer coming in and coughing up his or her 500 000£ to drive. Would that mean that Msport would have to register as a manufacturer to compete? Rallying has always been about the fact that any old nut can come and compete in equal machinery as the manufacturers... this is beyond stupid :(

Honestly, I see nothing stupid on it. The speed increase will make ’17 cars more demanding to drive. Limiting their access to top WRC drivers it’s a way to avoid safety risks.

It also helps manus to keep developing their costumer programs through current R5’s, which already are the main category in national and international rally series.

Besides, even MSport WRC's sales are a fraction from what they get with R5's and the days when it was reasonable for a top privateer to run in an equal machine as manus are long gone.

[janvanvurpa]

I saw that and I think it is bullshit.......
Rallying has always been about the fact that any old nut can come and compete in more or less kinda sorta equal machinery as the manufacturers...even if we all know the manufacturers stuff is new, fresh, tip top... this is beyond stupid :(

Yepp, that is why it is a rally --a collection point, a gathering, and not a mere made for TV "reality show" or World Wrestling Federation choreographed "race"....
seems many have forgotten that simple basic thing which historically has allowed some sort of fan or viewer "identification" with what he's watching rather than being as "race-fans" are supposed to be, mere passive consumers....

It takes a lot of gall for teams and people and media to claim "Hacki Hälarna is the best-est driver ever!!! and beat 199 other ..."When if fact he's given a car with a bigger turbo, bigger restrictor, more aero, more suspension travel on top of all the advantages that comes when driving for a fabriks team...

They seems to forget that the downhill spiral in rally began with the allowance of cars bearing almost no connection but a badge and maybe a grille and headlights with the cars sold by the MFG.

In other words when nerds took over and tried to make rally over into a cash cow on the template of circuit racing...

Logically guys what's next to insure that only one of 5-6 guys "gets to win".....
Would it be logic to begin adding ballast to all the other cars so they are all 100kg heavier? 200kg?
Make a rule they must leave a big shop rag in the intake?

Rallying has always been about the fact that any old nut can come and compete in more or less kinda sorta equal machinery as the manufacturers...even if we all know the manufacturers stuff is new, fresh, tip top...

[itix]

Honestly, I see nothing stupid on it. The speed increase will make ’17 cars more demanding to drive. Limiting their access to top WRC drivers it’s a way to avoid safety risks.

It also helps manus to keep developing their costumer programs through current R5’s, which already are the main category in national and international rally series.

Besides, even MSport WRC's sales are a fraction from what they get with R5's and the days when it was reasonable for a top privateer to run in an equal machine as manus are long gone.

I don't see any safety implication of such a system and experience has never made anyone less crash prone than others (do remember that latvala is in VW, the best team we currently have). That just makes it an elite club for "the initiated" instead. Rally has an appeal, in my view, in that anyone can turn up and do it. If I won the lottery tomorrow I could buy a WRC car, turn up in portugal and make a complete fool out of myself.

That gives me a sense of connection with the sport and changing this will break this connection.

[Simmi]

I hadn't really thought about it but I can't see these new cars getting into truly private hands for 18 months at least. Any additional entries before then would be tied to manufacturers anyway.

But in practice who would this rule really effect? They would need to draw up some kind of criteria. I think it's maybe in reference to guys like the Eurolamp Mini drivers. Maybe Solowow? Older guys like that. But then you're at risk of being ageist if they have more experience than guys like Camilli. So then you'd need to factor in speed, previous results etc. Either way I think they've created a problem here before there actually was one.

Having that 2017 cup for the older cars would be perfect as it gives those drivers and cars somewhere to compete. It would also really benefit younger drivers.

[stefanvv]

I don't see any safety implication of such a system and experience has never made anyone less crash prone than others (do remember that latvala is in VW, the best team we currently have). That just makes it an elite club for "the initiated" instead. Rally has an appeal, in my view, in that anyone can turn up and do it. If I won the lottery tomorrow I could buy a WRC car, turn up in portugal and make a complete fool out of myself.

That gives me a sense of connection with the sport and changing this will break this connection.

The whole safety thing is one big fuss around the sport. In fact I think changing to B segment 1.6t from C segment 2t was imposing more risk to crash at high speeds as smaller cars are naturally more unstable in high speed turning. Now they seem to just correct such instability.

[Mirek]

I don't have a good feeling about the rule just like about the whole 2017 technical rules. I really don't see how this F1 style rules could be good for rallying.

[rallyfiend]

What?
Are you serious?

What's that Merikuhn guy with the stupid baseball hat
Ben Klock...or something like that...He'd done ZERO top stuff against a few guys with garage built cars....essentially nothing and he plopped down 4-5 million--Sterling on the table- and PRESTO!

Press releases flooded every blog, site/forum/
"Factory Driver!"
He flipped on 1st second or maaaybe 3rd stage for several YEARS..

And there's been piles of others...just don't recall names cause they were just rich guys sons. Did nothing and disappeared. (leaving the money behind, of course)

Never did I say the quality of the drivers wasn't up to scratch, all I said was, none of those guys would ever get knocked back for a 2017 car from the FIA.

Block, Kuipers, Benito, Van Merk etc etc all would get a green light to drive a 2017 car. They have enough history to be sure they're not going to throw it at spectators chasing unfounded glory.

The FIA would be concerned about the DMACK Fiesta R2 style young guy stepping straight in to one of these cars.

[Franky]

Never did I say the quality of the drivers wasn't up to scratch, all I said was, none of those guys would ever get knocked back for a 2017 car from the FIA.

Block, Kuipers, Benito, Van Merk etc etc all would get a green light to drive a 2017 car. They have enough history to be sure they're not going to throw it at spectators chasing unfounded glory.

You mean like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GW8JUX25fQ

[rallyfiend]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=E42cyz-zG4c

I guess by your logic tbis guy shouldn't be allowed a car too...

[N.O.T]

If it is implemented correctly and not like the F1 super licence it is going to be a good thing. But when a midget and that ugly man are in charge of the FIA and rallying i doubt it will.

[Franky]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=E42cyz-zG4c

I guess by your logic tbis guy shouldn't be allowed a car too...

My logic? I just posted a question. And to be honest, I was expecting to see some sort of video of Latvala in action.

It will never be safe no matter what cars they are driving. As long as the victory is at stake, they'll go for it and everything can happen. And as you pointed out, even the best make mistakes ...

[denkimi]

I hadn't really thought about it but I can't see these new cars getting into truly private hands for 18 months at least. Any additional entries before then would be tied to manufacturers anyway.


wilson wil sell his cars to everyone that gives him the money.

[Mirek]

wilson wil sell his cars to everyone that gives him the money.

Is that wrong?

[denkimi]

Is that wrong?
no. imo selling cars to customers should be mandatory for all manufacturers.

[janvanvurpa]

You mean like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GW8JUX25fQ

No, no, no. Like this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-PGCmizGgw

Much better-er..:eek:

[stefanvv]

No, no, no. Like this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-PGCmizGgw

Much better-er..:eek:

jimkana test-style

[janvanvurpa]

jimkana test-style

In Engleski wir sagen "Pratice makes Perfect"

3 years of that on SS1 or SS2 and he learned how to flip sehr gut!

[stefanvv]

In Engleski wir sagen "Pratice makes Perfect"

3 years of that on SS1 or SS2 and he learned how to flip sehr gut!

und Sie können sagen, - wunderbar

[ToughMac]

What would be wrong with supplying the 2017 cars with the current 2016 restrictors? Manufacturers would have an outlet to sell their cars to national competitors and to be fair the cars would be no faster than they are now just with active diffs, it might even make them safer for less experienced drivers.

[Mirek]

Are You saying that a car with active center diff is not faster than a car without center diff at all?

[Munkvy]

I can't see how R5 experience would qualify you to drive the new WRC cars, as surely there should be a considerable gap in performance, particularly power and aero. So surely this is a flawed idea, they can't get experience in the car as they aren't allowed to drive it, and there isn't anything else that is close to it. So unless they say a current (2016) generation car is the stepping stone, I can't see how it can work?

But then look at Lorenzo, finished events when in an R5. Went to WRC car and seems to have lost the plot?

[Munkvy]

What would be wrong with supplying the 2017 cars with the current 2016 restrictors? Manufacturers would have an outlet to sell their cars to national competitors and to be fair the cars would be no faster than they are now just with active diffs, it might even make them safer for less experienced drivers.

In my limited experience with production style active centre diff (ie Subaru DCCD with an aftermarket controller programmed with custom diff maps), compared to regular plate diffs, a plate diff is easier/more predictable to get used to for a newbie (ie me).

[Mirek]

In my limited experience with production style active centre diff (ie Subaru DCCD with an aftermarket controller programmed with custom diff maps), compared to regular plate diffs, a plate diff is easier/more predictable to get used to for a newbie (ie me).

Current WRC cars don't have center diff at all. The difference of having an active one and none at all is really big. Than we have the new aero package, wider track, better brake cooling and many other small things which must make the 2017 faster even with same restrictor. Thinking only about the power like ToughMac did is wrong.

[dimviii]

In my limited experience with production style active centre diff (ie Subaru DCCD with an aftermarket controller programmed with custom diff maps), compared to regular plate diffs, a plate diff is easier/more predictable to get used to for a newbie (ie me).

quite the opposite imho. Mitsubishi evo has active center and rear diffs about 16 years back. For the average driver(and not only) active production diffs,are a big help to the driver.Thats why subaru decided to follow Mitsubishi after some years delay.
I ve changed mabe more than 20-30 maps at my evo center active diff,and the difference is impressive.But didnt find the last excellent result, just uploading some custom maps.It requires some more try and error with your programmer to fix it for your car and drive.

[Jack4688`]

Current WRC cars don't have center diff at all.

Can you explain this to me? I don't understand how a four-wheel-drive drivetrain can function 'without a centre diff'. To me a centre diff is what apportions torque between the front and rear axles...

[GravelBen]

Can you explain this to me? I don't understand how a four-wheel-drive drivetrain can function 'without a centre diff'. To me a centre diff is what apportions torque between the front and rear axles...

As far as I know the current WRC cars have front and rear axles effectively locked to rotate together (like a Hilux or similar when in 4wd) - a centre diff would let the front and rear rotate at different speeds (hence the word 'differential').

If you've ever tried to take a tight turn with a locked centre diff or no centre diff 4wd you'll understand why that setup generally results in more sliding from a rally car.

[Jack4688`]

Thanks, makes more sense now.

So essentially that rearward shaft is just taking 50% of the torque from the front final drive back to the rear diff without anything fancy going on inside?
http://www.brosnan-racing.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/4-Wheel-Drive-RALLY-Gearbox.jpg

Would the step between active diff and none at all be something like a Torsen or a viscous coupling then? i.e. not interfered with electronically (not in the same way a Haldex works, that would be a REactive wait-until-you're-already-understeering system), purely a mechanically PROactive system?

[stefanvv]

Would the step between active diff and none at all be something like a Torsen or a viscous coupling then? i.e. not interfered with electronically (not in the same way a Haldex works, that would be a REactive wait-until-you're-already-understeering system), purely a mechanically PROactive system?

AFAIK there is no electronics currently.

[makinen_fan]

Current WRC cars don't have center diff at all.

Mechanical limited slip diffs (front/centre/rear) are allowed by regulations now:
See section 5.2b
http://www.fia.com/file/37755/download?token=qSz1j2jX

Front/central/rear differentials
Only the housings and mechanical limited slip differentials
homologated in the WRC extension may be used (without any
modification).
"Mechanical limited slip differential" means any system which
works purely mechanically, i.e. without the help of a hydraulic or
electric system.
A viscous clutch is not considered to be a mechanical system.
Any differential with electronic management is prohibited. The
number and the type of the plates are free.


From next year, hydraulic control of the centre diff (via electronics of course) will be allowed again.

[GravelBen]

Good info, cheers :)

[J_n_z]

Centre dif. is allowed, but they don't use it.
Are F1 type water cooled intercoolers allowed in 2017 regulation?

[ToughMac]

Are You saying that a car with active center diff is not faster than a car without center diff at all?

No, what i'm saying is it makes the car more predictable. Rather than driving the road you're driving the car if that makes sense.

[br21]

now no center diffs at all in WRC cars (same with R5).
active center diffs is huge difference, big advantage over non diff at all or mechanical center diff.
mechanical centers were used/tested in beginning of S2000 cars, but finally everyone decided not to use them at all.
subaru or mitsubishi with well set active center diff is much more easy to drive (and way more faster) than same car with mechanical center diff.

[denkimi]

I can't see how R5 experience would qualify you to drive the new WRC cars, as surely there should be a considerable gap in performance, particularly power and aero. So surely this is a flawed idea, they can't get experience in the car as they aren't allowed to drive it, and there isn't anything else that is close to it. So unless they say a current (2016) generation car is the stepping stone, I can't see how it can work?

But then look at Lorenzo, finished events when in an R5. Went to WRC car and seems to have lost the plot?
the intention is not to stop r5 drivers from going to wrc cars, the intention is to stop rich 18 year old kids from buying a wrc car and hurting themself.

the question is of course if this is actually necessary. latvala, mikkelsen and ostberg all started very quick in wrc cars, payed by their family's money.

[Munkvy]

quite the opposite imho. Mitsubishi evo has active center and rear diffs about 16 years back. For the average driver(and not only) active production diffs,are a big help to the driver.Thats why subaru decided to follow Mitsubishi after some years delay.
I ve changed mabe more than 20-30 maps at my evo center active diff,and the difference is impressive.But didnt find the last excellent result, just uploading some custom maps.It requires some more try and error with your programmer to fix it for your car and drive.
I may not have explained well enough, an active centre diff in my experience rallying has so many variables depending on surface, and what you are doing with the pedals, whereas a mechanical is more predictable, as it drives essentially the same when sideways each time, and can then be adjusted with the pedals.

I think for someone learning to drive fast and understand the cars dynamics, electronics while definitely faster, will dull your understanding of how the car is acting and therefore potentially give you a false sense of what you are doing to the car, in comparison to what the electronics are doing?

Definitely agree though that active will be quicker, just not necessarily a good thing for someone who is learning to drive a rally car.

[Rallyper]

the intention is not to stop r5 drivers from going to wrc cars, the intention is to stop rich 18 year old kids from buying a wrc car and hurting themself.

the question is of course if this is actually necessary. latvala, mikkelsen and ostberg all started very quick in wrc cars, payed by their family's money.

But have in mind they drove those machines from age as 12 years old boys and not had some new commitment from nothing at age of 20.
Like Kalle Rovanperä who´s already have driven 4WD for maybe 8 yrs and only 16.

[EstWRC]

Al-Attiyah in talks for fourth Volkswagen WRC seat

http://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/al-attiyah-in-talks-for-fourth-volkswagen-wrc-seat-734737/

[Andre Oliveira]

http://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/al-attiyah-in-talks-for-fourth-volkswagen-wrc-seat-734737/

Qatari rally driver Nasser Al-Attiyah has revealed he is in talks for a seat at Volkswagen's WRC outfit for the last six rounds of the 2016 season.

Although he has been racing in WRC events since 2004, Al-Attiyah only drove a World Rally Car for the 2012 and 2013 seasons, taking a best finish of fourth in Rally Portugal.

He then went on to win both the 2014 and 2015 editions of WRC2, amassing seven wins in the process.

The multiple Dakar Rally winner and two-time WRC2 champion told Motorsport.com that will not return to the series this year as he concentrates on preparing for the men's skeet competition in the 2016 Summer Olympics.

After competing at Rio, he wants to compete in WRC with Volkswagen in the main class, getting the seat through Qatar Holding, which has 17 percent share in the VW Group.

"I’ve spoken to Volkswagen, regarding a drive in the Polo R WRC car under their management," revealed Al-Attiyah to Motorsport.com.

"I want to race with its second team, which includes Andreas Mikkelsen. If I get the approval, I’ll start competing from Rally Germany and will do six rounds, until the end of the season.

"And if I don’t get the green light, then, I won’t be interested in competing in WRC2, as I’ll keep the budget that I have for next year," he added.

The 45-year-old said, should the deal not happen, he will continue racing in Middle East Rally Championship, where he won the season opener on home soil, and cross-country events.

"I’ll continue competing in cross-country rallies this year, in addition to the Middle East Rally Championship," he said.

Additional reporting by Khodr Rawi

[sindroms]

Double post.

[EstWRC]

triple post actually, i posted it last page last post, lol

[Simmi]

Would be cool to see.

I guess it comes down to what Nasser (or whoever) is paying, versus the increase in resources for VW at a busy time of the season. And whether they think it's worth it.

[tomhlord]

Where is this 4th VW coming from?

[EstWRC]

Well, testing machine i guess?

[EightGear]

Qatar owns 17% of VW shares.

There's your reason. Otherwise there'd be no way VW would even think about putting Nasser in one of their cars.

[GigiGalliNo1]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Wonder if it'll come true

[KiwiWRCfan]

A car for 6 WRC rounds is insignificant compared to 4 Billion Euro loss
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/vw-scandal-qatar-investment-authority-suffers-heavy-loss-1521498

[Rallyper]

Some type of crowd funding or investment challenge is on for Emil Bergkvist. Saying he needs to drive this year in WRC2 and all possibilities for a seat in WRC in 2017. But still short of funding for full rest of season 2016. Have a look yourself at

https://www.facebook.com/EMIL-Bergkv...4805148554356/

[GigiGalliNo1]

Nasser is also contracted to Red Bull so it'll be a sponsorship alignment as well as the whole percentage of VW with Qatar

[Barreis]

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124188

[Simmi]

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124188

I agree with Wilson that it's daft not to use the current generation cars. I also don't see how it screws over R5 at all - given the cars run in a different class and are aimed at different people.

[AndyRAC]

Surely it's just common sense to allow current WRCars into the 2017 top class? I'm sure there is a solution so that they can remain relatively competitive.

[SubaruNorway]

I don't know if it's the filming, places or what but to me this seems like nearly a complete waste, you have nearly no chance of seeing the improved performance. Maybe they need to do something with the sound, the Polo doesn't give me the buzz in these testing video's anyway.

[stefanvv]

if current wrc doesn't give You the buzz, 2017 won't do it either. Even supercars in rallyx aren't exciting enough.

[Simmi]

All they needed to do was make them louder and more sideways.

[AndyRAC]

I just suggests that those in charge aren't sure what they are doing - and they haven't thought everything out. But, I suppose we've come to expect that from them.

[Barreis]

I just suggests that those in charge aren't sure what they are doing - and they haven't thought everything out. But, I suppose we've come to expect that from them.

They don't know how to put right onboard camera angle to attract the audience so how to expect more?! But it could be good if more drivers start to win next year...

[Mirek]

All they needed to do was make them louder and more sideways.

You can't make them louder. Please don't forget that rallying uses normal public roads in the nature, in villages etc. For that reason there are noise regulations which have to be followed. We are not the only people or animals around the stages and it doesn't help anything to behave like an arrogant noisy louts who care only about their sport and not giving a f.u.c.k. about anything and anyone else.

Regarding driving sideways. They actually did the exact apposite which is hard to understand when current cars are near pefect in this matter. I would personally further reduced the aero package but I'm not the one who decides...

[AL14]

Hayden Paddon's campaign for bringing back NZ in the WRC continues.
He published this video starring a lot of important people of NZ motorsport and politics (including prime minister).

https://www.facebook.com/haydenpaddonwrc/videos/1002404596461996/

[GigiGalliNo1]

VW know nothing

Joost says three cars only

Nasser is dreaming

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com.au&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/nachrichten/artikel/d/2016/05/11/al-attiyah-ueberrascht-volkswagen&usg=ALkJrhgRJQ9yOjUzmaNTS63MvgUGEYvz6A

[Mirek]

Or they simply don't want to admit anything until it's signed.

[rallyfiend]

VW know nothing

Joost says three cars only

Nasser is dreaming

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com.au&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/nachrichten/artikel/d/2016/05/11/al-attiyah-ueberrascht-volkswagen&usg=ALkJrhgRJQ9yOjUzmaNTS63MvgUGEYvz6A

With him waiting to be allowed to exit the company, maybe Jost is being left out of the loop...

[Zeakiwi]

Why is it so difficult to allow 2016 spec WRC cars to run with 2017 WRC cars in the same category?
Do the FIA officials not like to see well funded private teams in WRC cars beating (running ahead of) works supported WRC2 R5 etc cars with young drivers. Does it make it difficult for the limited camera crews to travel from stage to stage covering the first ten cars etc?
Could always run WRC2017, WRC2 then a gap to the WRC16 private cars for live coverage to keep sponsors happy etc.? (or restrict the 16 cars to run at the same speed as R5)

[N.O.T]

Why is it so difficult to allow 2016 spec WRC cars to run with 2017 WRC cars in the same category?
Do the FIA officials not like to see well funded private teams in WRC cars beating (running ahead of) works supported WRC2 R5 etc cars with young drivers. Does it make it difficult for the limited camera crews to travel from stage to stage covering the first ten cars etc?
Could always run WRC2017, WRC2 then a gap to the WRC16 private cars for live coverage to keep sponsors happy etc.? (or restrict the 16 cars to run at the same speed as R5)

who would be stupid enough to spend his money to run a private old generation WRC where the only competition would be other stupid people in the same car?

[Mirek]

Why is it so difficult to allow 2016 spec WRC cars to run with 2017 WRC cars in the same category?
Do the FIA officials not like to see well funded private teams in WRC cars beating (running ahead of) works supported WRC2 R5 etc cars with young drivers. Does it make it difficult for the limited camera crews to travel from stage to stage covering the first ten cars etc?
Could always run WRC2017, WRC2 then a gap to the WRC16 private cars for live coverage to keep sponsors happy etc.? (or restrict the 16 cars to run at the same speed as R5)

I somehow learned not to search for common logic in FIA decision. The fact is that it hurts no-one to keep them allowed because they are clearly slower and not more than several gentleman drivers would use them anyway.


who would be stupid enough to spend his money to run a private old generation WRC where the only competition would be other stupid people in the same car?

That seriously stupid question. Anyone who
a) already has a WRC car and doesn't want to spend half a million Euro for another one which is useful only for WRC events
b) anyone who drives just for fun and doesn't want to spend hundreds of thousands Euro for renting a car which he can't fully use anyway
c) anyone who drives just one rally and doesn't want to use a car which he doesn't know at all
etc.

The point is why not to allow those stupid people to do that?

[N.O.T]

That seriously stupid question. Anyone who
a) already has a WRC car and doesn't want to spend half a million Euro for another one which is useful only for WRC events
b) anyone who drives just for fun and doesn't want to spend hundreds of thousands Euro for renting a car which he can't fully use anyway
c) anyone who drives just one rally and doesn't want to use a car which he doesn't know at all
etc.

The point is why not to allow those stupid people to do that?

a.A person who spent half a million for such a car will sell it and get a new WRC or if he can't an R5.
b.He will drive village events for fun not a WRC round
c.If he wants to run one rally get an R5

FIA won't allow them because they will be obsolete... and stupid people who want to run an obsolete car just for fun should not be allowed outside or they can do that in village events. The WRC is for the top only.

[Mirek]

FIA won't allow them because they will be obsolete... and stupid people who want to run an obsolete car just for fun should not be allowed outside or they can do that in village events. The WRC is for the top only.

That's enough for me. Have a good day.

[janvanvurpa]

Hayden Paddon's campaign for bringing back NZ in the WRC continues.
He published this video starring a lot of important people of NZ motorsport and politics (including prime minister).

https://www.facebook.com/haydenpaddonwrc/videos/1002404596461996/


Gotta admire the kid..He is on a roll and bursting with enthusiasm..
(and fortunately not yet beeen in the mitts of the bane of the world "Media Types" who "create for him a (boring, monotone) Media personal style").....

We have to suggest to him somehow to do the Python skit in reverse in the future for Ogier's enlightenment...It would be historical--and hysterical..

[dimviii]

how it MAY look a 2017 ngi20

https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13217058_10154220470359973_2812492159519563911_o.j pg

[SubaruNorway]

if current wrc doesn't give You the buzz, 2017 won't do it either. Even supercars in rallyx aren't exciting enough.

The current cars gives me a buzz don't get me wrong, but i don't feel the 2017 cars adds much. Just have to wait to see it in real life i guess :) They ruined the RX cars with the new ALS rules so they don't need to have the bang bang type anymore, don't ask me what changed, boost control maybe?

[stefanvv]

The current cars gives me a buzz don't get me wrong, but i don't feel the 2017 cars adds much. Just have to wait to see it in real life i guess :)

Hmm, well matter of taste I guess. As for the future cars don't expect that much sideways in the corners I guess. As for the rest they look little more spectacular as pure vision. But we'll see what hey come with at the end, it is early to say for sure.

[Rally Power]

Why is it so difficult to allow 2016 spec WRC cars to run with 2017 WRC cars in the same category?Do the FIA officials not like to see well funded private teams in WRC cars beating (running ahead of) works supported WRC2 R5 etc cars with young drivers. Does it make it difficult for the limited camera crews to travel from stage to stage covering the first ten cars etc? Could always run WRC2017, WRC2 then a gap to the WRC16 private cars for live coverage to keep sponsors happy etc.? (or restrict the 16 cars to run at the same speed as R5)

Actually, WRC’s were previously leveled with R5’s in WRC2, running in RRC specs with the 30mm restrictor. Unwisely, FIA decided to impose the 28mm restrictor at the end of 2015. If they kept 30mm, RRC’s could still be competitive in WRC2 and other international or national series.

With the permanent evolution of R5’s cars, 30mm RRC’s would hardly dominate those series and outdated WRC’s could easily run some years more, without the need to create another (hopeless) competition inside WRC.

[br21]

I think that in WRC2 RRC cars, even with 28mm restrictor still would be competitive, mainly not because of speed, but because of relability. As most of R5 cars struggle to do complete WRC loops full throttle. So RRC even if slower then in long term could win. Of course to run RRC it costs much more than R5, so that's also the reason those cars disapear.

[Eli]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/nachrichten/artikel/d/2016/05/12/italien-hyundai-setzt-erneut-auf-paddon/ not only portugal but also in Sardegna Paddon will be the N.3 car...

[EstWRC]

Logical because he was 2nd there last year.

[itix]

now no center diffs at all in WRC cars (same with R5).
active center diffs is huge difference, big advantage over non diff at all or mechanical center diff.
mechanical centers were used/tested in beginning of S2000 cars, but finally everyone decided not to use them at all.
subaru or mitsubishi with well set active center diff is much more easy to drive (and way more faster) than same car with mechanical center diff.
From reading and watching exploded views from sadev it seems they have a transfer case built into the front "differential" housing but it it mechanically locked to the same speed front and rear.

That's how I understood it.

[rallyfiend]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/nachrichten/artikel/d/2016/05/12/italien-hyundai-setzt-erneut-auf-paddon/ not only portugal but also in Sardegna Paddon will be the N.3 car...

Has Paddon and Neuville ever competed in the Shell team together, before?

They always seem to make it Paddon and Sordo..

[EightGear]

Has Paddon and Neuville ever competed in the Shell team together, before?

They always seem to make it Paddon and Sordo..

Sweden 2015.

[itix]

Actually, WRC’s were previously leveled with R5’s in WRC2, running in RRC specs with the 30mm restrictor. Unwisely, FIA decided to impose the 28mm restrictor at the end of 2015. If they kept 30mm, RRC’s could still be competitive in WRC2 and other international or national series.

With the permanent evolution of R5’s cars, 30mm RRC’s would hardly dominate those series and outdated WRC’s could easily run some years more, without the need to create another (hopeless) competition inside WRC.
This makes perfect sense to me. Those who has bought a WRC machine could easily compete in wrc 2 in this way... No need for a new series, no need for banning the old machines, everybody (except N.O.T) wins

[dimviii]

WRC veteran Dani Sordo has revealed he is deciding between a renewal of his contract with Hyundai and a move to another team for the 2017 season.

Similar to teammate Thierry Neuville's deal, the Spaniard's contract will expire at the end of the current season.

While Neuville has been rumoured to join Citroen next year, Sordo himself admitted he is in talks with another team as well as Hyundai, which is thought to be Toyota.

"At the moment I have some conversation with the team [Hyundai] and with another team so it looks good for the next year, we'll see," Sordo told Motorsport.com.

"At the moment it's a little bit early to say anything. The most important thing right now is to have the best rallies possible and to start negotiations after that.

"[I'll stay in WRC] if not in this team then another, I hope.

"Next year Toyota is also coming so there will be more cars and drivers will move a little bit more so it will be interesting."
Everything a "little better" on new car

With a couple of fourth- and sixth-place finishes, Sordo has enjoyed his best season start since he had joined Hyundai, as he currently sits fifth in the drivers' standings.

The 33-year-old praised the new Hyundai i20 introduced this year, highlighting the engine as one of the biggest improvements.

"Everything is a little bit better in the new car," he said. "The only big difference is the new engine, which is much better.

"The chassis is completely different, it's a longer car. In some fast places it's more stable than the car before but is less agile so when it's very twisty it's a little bit worse than before but we have much more interesting points, good points, than with the old car."
Rallycross is "not the same sensation"

Asked if he was tempted to switch to rallycross like former WRC rivals Sebastien Loeb and Petter Solberg, Sordo said he has a clear preference for rallying, as he feels driving on a circuit is not the same.

"For me rally is the top, maybe rallycross is good, but I always dreamed of rallying when I was little," said the Spaniard.

"I also like rallycross because it's a little bit same to rally but on a circuit and it's not the same sensation.

"Driving the car on a circuit is, I don't know, you feel you need something more."
http://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/sordo-in-talks-with-hyundai-and-another-team-for-2017-735248/?utm_source=RSS&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=RSS-WRC&utm_term=News&utm_content=www&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Eli]

I see Dani will try everycar from the WRC fold before he retires (apart from VW's machine).

[EstWRC]

The other team has to be Toyota.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Maybe Paddon / Sordo 1/2 for 2017. It'll make Sordo happy no? Why leave if he's happy and comfortable.

[AL14]

Please guys, he is doing what everybody who has to extend a contract does... Talking to others to get a better offer from his actual partner.

[Simmi]

It's certainly a great time to be an experienced, averagely quick WRC driver.


Regardless of what happens, I really hope the knock-on of Toyota's arrival is a few more young guns in the WRC. Although we might just have to settle for Lappi and a full season for Abbring.

[Rallyper]

It's certainly a great time to be an experienced, averagely quick WRC driver.


Regardless of what happens, I really hope the knock-on of Toyota's arrival is a few more young guns in the WRC. Although we might just have to settle for Lappi and a full season for Abbring.

Not likely. Hanninen and one more top 6 guy must be. 3rd?

[Simmi]

Not likely. Hanninen and one more top 6 guy must be. 3rd?

Not saying Lappi/Abbring etc would go to Toyota. Just that it would be nice if three more works seats helped bring fresh talent through into the WRC as a whole. Instead of prolonging the careers of average drivers.

[pantealex]

3rd?

Mix of Japanise/Old Foxes (Arai,Katsuta,Mikko,Petter,Tommi etc)

[skarderud]

The other team has to be Toyota.
Or Ford.

[br21]

In case of Sadev for R5 it's fully locked - output shaft has two sets of final drive gears locked together - one for front and another for rear.


From reading and watching exploded views from sadev it seems they have a transfer case built into the front "differential" housing but it it mechanically locked to the same speed front and rear.

That's how I understood it.

[Eli]

Or Ford.

"Ford", now that's a manufacturer name I haven't heard in a long time (in a context of WRC not WRX), I think you ment to say, M-Sport ;)

[stefanvv]

"Ford", now that's a manufacturer name I haven't heard in a long time (in a context of WRC not WRX), I think you ment to say, M-Sport ;)

who said it has to be manufacturer team? anyway if we want to be punctual - "M-Sport World Rally Team"

[Eli]

who said it has to be manufacturer team? anyway if we want to be punctual - "M-Sport World Rally Team"
Come on, i was just kidding :)

[stefanvv]

Come on, i was just kidding :)

Ok, I wasn't:)

[RAS007]

I see Dani will try everycar from the WRC fold before he retires (apart from VW's machine).

Sordo is an unusual case, at least to me. I can hardly believe he's only 33. He seems to have been around for a very long time, with comparatively little success, but always seems to get a works drive.

[itix]

Sordo is an unusual case, at least to me. I can hardly believe he's only 33. He seems to have been around for a very long time, with comparatively little success, but always seems to get a works drive.

Sordo has always been in the middle category or just behind the front runners, always bagging points and a good 2nd driver to help the manu championship along... I guess that's why he always manage to stick around.

[N.O.T]

Sordo is an unusual case, at least to me. I can hardly believe he's only 33. He seems to have been around for a very long time, with comparatively little success, but always seems to get a works drive.

Spain is a huge car market, we had to bare with Sainz and his past his prime dog driving for years just because of his nationality and telefonica.

Sordo is a good driver though, pity he did not develop his gravel skills to the max.

[seb_sh]

Sordo is an unusual case, at least to me. I can hardly believe he's only 33. He seems to have been around for a very long time, with comparatively little success, but always seems to get a works drive.

He came in quite early as he was part of Citroen's driver development (I'm not sure about this maybe someone can confirm). After winning JWRC he replaced Duval and did well as Loeb's lieutenant.

Can't say how good he is at developing cars but he was always a very good "number 2" type driver:

- Finish rate (ewrc-results) is 85% (same as Ogier) which is very good. Some more comparisons: Loeb 87%, Hirvonen 81%, Latvala 80%, Solberg 78%, Neuville 73% - note some of these are skewed because of Rally2 (especially Latvala). Also his podium rate is 28% (Hirvonen for example has 42%) not stellar, but not bad.
- He adapted to a variety of cars over the years and kept the same pace.
- Don't know about his personality but he seems to be a nice guy so that helps keep good atmosphere in the team.


Indeed he hasn't had outright success if you count rally wins or title challenges but looking at other drivers that have been around in the past 10 years, if I was a team manager he would have been on my watch list almost constantly.

[RAS007]

Spain is a huge car market, we had to bare with Sainz and his past his prime dog driving for years just because of his nationality and telefonica.

Sordo is a good driver though, pity he did not develop his gravel skills to the max.

I take your point about Spain and the car market, but that's where the comparison ends. Sainz won 26 rallies, was a double world champion and was still winning rallies in the early 2000s (Argentina, 2004 was his last victory). Sordo has won once in over 130 starts....

[dimviii]

Also dont forget that Sordo was unlucky being with Loeb for some years.Without Loeb surely he could win plenty of asphalt rallies.http://forum-rallye.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sordo.jpg
Generally agree 100% with seb sh post.

[dimviii]

I take your point about Spain and the car market, but that's where the comparison ends. Sainz won 26 rallies, was a double world champion and was still winning rallies in the early 2000s (Argentina, 2004 was his last victory). Sordo has won once in over 130 starts....
wasnt Turkey when he invited for a one off rally from citroen?

[Rally Power]

Regardless of what happens, I really hope the knock-on of Toyota's arrival is a few more young guns in the WRC. Although we might just have to settle for Lappi and a full season for Abbring.

Don't forget Suninen. He still has a link with Toyota (TMG) and is managed by Jouhki.

[RAS007]

wasnt Turkey when he invited for a one off rally from citroen?

I think you're right, which makes it all the more amazing.

[macebig]

Well, Sainz was not really past of his prime.His last full season was 2004 and he won Rally Argentina.He returned for 2 events in 2005 when Duval burned his car in Cyprus and finished 3rd in Greece and 4th in Turkey.Plus in 2003 he went to GB still with a shot to the title as it also happened in 2001.Not way past his prime in my book...

[N.O.T]

race in Argentina.

race..... race..... race... race....

http://i.imgur.com/v8XWqNw.jpg

[i20WRCoupe]

how it MAY look a 2017 ngi20

https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13217058_10154220470359973_2812492159519563911_o.j pg
2-door > 4-door. Make it happen, Hyundai!

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

[USER47]

I like the bigger cars, and at least it doesn't all look the same. I don't think they will go for 3 door version for 2017 as they probably spent a lot of money developing current version and will want to build on that.

[Simmi]

Don't forget Suninen. He still has a link with Toyota (TMG) and is managed by Jouhki.

Let's see. I hope he can get a chance. For me he'd be a perfect candidate to do a year in an old spec WRC next season.

Feels like this has been discussed repeatedly but I don't think Suninen's TMG "deal" gets him anywhere with Makinen/Toyota Gazoo.

[Rally Power]

Sordo's talking with Citroen, not Toyota! AS newspaper asked the Spaniard about Motorsport.com article and he was pretty clear: never said it was Toyota. He ended revealing to AS journo that besides Hyundai the other manu he’s in talks is Citroen, but he’s happy in Hyundai and they want him for next season.

http://motor.as.com/motor/2016/05/12/mas_motor/1463069197_318773.html

[Simmi]

Sordo's talking with Citroen, not Toyota! AS newspaper asked the Spaniard about Motorsport.com article and he was pretty clear: never said it was Toyota. He ended revealing to AS journo that besides Hyundai the other manu he’s in talks is Citroen, but he’s happy in Hyundai and they want him for next season.

http://motor.as.com/motor/2016/05/12/mas_motor/1463069197_318773.html

Interesting. I wonder if that means that Citroen have moved away from their interest in Neuville? It also wouldn't surprise me if Hyundai cut their losses after this season too, especially given the public animosity between Neuville and their new lead driver.

Don't think I've heard Thierry's name mentioned in reference to Toyota. He may well end up at M-Sport after all!


Just for fun this is what I could see happening next year:

VW: Ogier, Latvala, Mikkelsen
Hyundai: Paddon, Sordo, Abbring
M-Sport: Neuville, Evans, Camilli (part-season)
Citroen: Meeke, Lefebvre, Breen (part-season)
Toyota: Ostberg, Lappi, Hanninen

[AL14]

Interesting. I wonder if that means that Citroen have moved away from their interest in Neuville? It also wouldn't surprise me if Hyundai cut their losses after this season too, especially given the public animosity between Neuville and their new lead driver.

Don't think I've heard Thierry's name mentioned in reference to Toyota. He may well end up at M-Sport after all!


Just for fun this is what I could see happening next year:

VW: Ogier, Latvala, Mikkelsen
Hyundai: Paddon, Sordo, Abbring
M-Sport: Neuville, Evans, Camilli (part-season)
Citroen: Meeke, Lefebvre, Breen (part-season)
Toyota: Ostberg, Lappi, Hanninen

The estonian guy is going to kill you... lol

By the way, I think Citroen will try hard to find another top driver to form a lineup with Meeke. Lefebvre is not ready yet, and Kris alone is too much of a gamble given his crashes attitude. The talks with Sordo prove it.

[Rallyper]

Same time mentioning Abbring, Camilli and Lefebvre there must be other names beside these guys well worth given the light.
Quite sick and tired of these worthless names. (now I´m sounding like NOT...) :)

[stefanvv]

Same time mentioning Abbring, Camilli and Lefebvre there must be other names beside these guys well worth given the light.
Quite sick and tired of these worthless names. (now I´m sounding like NOT...) :)

No You just would put Bergkvist there:D
I agree for Camilli & Lefebvre though, the spark is missing. Abbring well he was quite good in ERC, I don't know what happened to him in hyundai.

[Simmi]

Same time mentioning Abbring, Camilli and Lefebvre there must be other names beside these guys well worth given the light.
Quite sick and tired of these worthless names. (now I´m sounding like NOT...) :)

I'm with you that I wish there were more opportunities for young drivers. I picked who I think we'll see - not who I want to see. Reasons being that Abbring has done a lot of work for Hyundai and I think either Neuville/Sordo will leave. Camilli has a two-year deal at M-Sport (they also have first option on him in 2018), but I can see him being demoted next year.

Citroen have put a lot of resource into developing Lefebvre. I agree with AL14 that they really need a second stronger driver to sit alongside Meeke.


For me Tanak is in a difficult position to prove himself. If he beats Ostberg in stage times every says "so what". And if the tyres are as bad as everyone says then how does Ott stand out from the crowd?

I think it's far too early for Bergkvist. Best scenario for him would be to be picked up by a manufacturer at R5. E.g. if Abbring moved up he could be Hyundai's R5 guy. Toyota seem to be more interested in developing their Japanese duo. Skoda look like they have enough guys and that Kreim is the next driver on the ladder.

[Zeakiwi]

If Latvala has a few more crashes he might end up at Toyota and the VW team cut to two cars like the Porsche endurance team has been cut to two cars.

[DoubleD]

Porsche and Audi only ran 3 cars at 2 events, Spa 6HR and Le Mans 24HR so in real terms it wasn't a huge cut...Porsche did cut the factory backed GTE Pro cars too tho...

[sete]

my rumours about 2017 line up

VW: Ogier,Mikkelsen
VW II : Tidemand,Al-Attiyah?
Citroen: Meeke,Breen/Neuville
Ford: Latvala/Neuville,Tanak
Hyundai: Paddon,Sordo
Toyota:Hanninen,Sunninen/Lappi

Supposed to some drivers drives R5 cars again: Evans,Camilli,Abbring
Its also pretty sure that Tidemand and Lappi leaves Škoda for WRC car drives.So i expected Bergvist should be new choice number 1 for Škoda motorsport

[Simmi]

Okay some talk about Latvala, but the man himself appears to have a deal in place for the next couple of years - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122552

So you'd have to imagine he's not leaving unless his deal gets bought out (if Makinen won't, no one will) or he gets paid out by VW? And why would they do that?

[WUff1]

my rumours about 2017 line up

VW: Ogier,Mikkelsen
VW II : Tidemand,Al-Attiyah?
Citroen: Meeke,Breen/Neuville
Ford: Latvala/Neuville,Tanak
Hyundai: Paddon,Sordo
Toyota:Hanninen,Sunninen/Lappi

Supposed to some drivers drives R5 cars again: Evans,Camilli,Abbring
Its also pretty sure that Tidemand and Lappi leaves Škoda for WRC car drives.So i expected Bergvist should be new choice number 1 for Škoda motorsport

I think Tidemand will stay at Skoda, but Lappi (will have to) leave. Skoda now seems to feature Tidemand more than Lappi.

[sete]

yes,Škoda seems to prefer Tidemand ahead of Lappi now.But we škoda is doing it for Volkswagen.So we should know what is going on.
Lappi would drive a Polo WRC this year but he didnt win WRC 2 title by his fault and then a VW group troubles amkes he stays in Škoda for this year.
And now Tidemand shine much more then Lappi.

[seb_sh]

My prediction at the moment:

VW: Ogier, Latvala, Mikkelsen
Citroen: Meeke, Breen/Lefebvre (alternating)
Hyundai: Paddon, Sordo, Abbring
Ford: Ostberg, Neuville
Toyota: Hanninen, Tanak, Lappi
DMACK: Evans

I'm not surprised Citroen is chasing Sordo, he's the best available option atm. Meeke + Sordo would be a strong team.

Bergkvist and Sunninen aren't ready yet but Tidemand could step up, unfortunately VW has no room for him at the moment.

[stefanvv]

I guess it is time for a silly something thread:D
On the serious note this season is very far from over, many things may change.

[seb_sh]

I guess it is time for a silly something thread:D
On the serious note this season is very far from over, many things may change.

Indeed, as far as I know the VW drivers, Meeke, Paddon and Abbring have contracts for next year, maybe Ostberg as well, oh and Hanninen but I'm not sure if he will drive the whole season.

[itix]

I'm with you that I wish there were more opportunities for young drivers. I picked who I think we'll see - not who I want to see. Reasons being that Abbring has done a lot of work for Hyundai and I think either Neuville/Sordo will leave. Camilli has a two-year deal at M-Sport (they also have first option on him in 2018), but I can see him being demoted next year.

Citroen have put a lot of resource into developing Lefebvre. I agree with AL14 that they really need a second stronger driver to sit alongside Meeke.


For me Tanak is in a difficult position to prove himself. If he beats Ostberg in stage times every says "so what". And if the tyres are as bad as everyone says then how does Ott stand out from the crowd?

I think it's far too early for Bergkvist. Best scenario for him would be to be picked up by a manufacturer at R5. E.g. if Abbring moved up he could be Hyundai's R5 guy. Toyota seem to be more interested in developing their Japanese duo. Skoda look like they have enough guys and that Kreim is the next driver on the ladder.
I agree that it's early days for Bergkvist but I'd still give him a chance if he does well throughout this season. He's the same age as Sunninen and he has proven that he can stay on the road and can judge his pace well which is important.

Sunninen has more 4wd experience, I'll give him that, but he seems a bit more crash prone.

[GravelBen]

If Latvala has a few more crashes he might end up at Toyota and the VW team cut to two cars like the Porsche endurance team has been cut to two cars.

He's had only had one driver error retirement this season hasn't he? And two mechanicals.

[Simmi]

He's had only had one driver error retirement this season hasn't he? And two mechanicals.

Can't remember how he broke his suspension in Sweden - but his Monte retirement was a "mechanical" after his infamous trip through a ditch/spectator area.

[GravelBen]

Can't remember how he broke his suspension in Sweden - but his Monte retirement was a "mechanical" after his infamous trip through a ditch/spectator area.

I was counting Monte as driver error.

Sweden was driveshaft failure leaving him with 2wd, followed by suspension failure later that day - whether he hit something to cause that suspension failure (while trying to keep a 2wd WRC car on the road without losing too much time) or if it was mechanically due to the driveshaft I don't know.

Mexico he won.

Argentina was (dramatic) suspension failure while leading.

I think most people would consider him the current second best driver in WRC, VW also have the current best driver so they don't need Latvala to win everything - in fact they're probably quite happy for him to be further back in the points and not put pressure on Ogier as long they keep a comfortable lead in the manufacturers championship. I'd say his seat is safer than most.

[Simmi]

Yeah I think you're correct in your assessment and I agree with you Ben that Latvala is the perfect number two driver. He's not consistent enough to threaten Ogier over a season, but he is the next best in terms of raw pace. Enough so that if you're VW you wouldn't want him going to a rival.

[BleAivano]

Some news about Rally Sweden.



Service area/Rally centre will likely remain in Karlstad for 2017 due to problems with hotels/accommodation in Northern Värmland.*
Rally will stay in Värmland for 2017 due to shortage in time to create a whole new rally somewhere else, uncertain for 2018 and 2019.
The aim is to present something in June. It is all about finding snow safe areas and at the same time have guaranteed accommodation.
Rally will be held at week 5,6 or 7. RS organizers prefer week 6. Promoter wants week 5 or 7.


* Rally Sweden's Glenn Olsson have been in contact with hotels and other accommodation providers in Northern Värmland but he is disappointed
with the answers he have received. He wants to have control over accommodation in Nothern Värmland for the next three years to be able to guarantee
a large enough availability volume that is also reasonable priced. They were considering to move the rally and service park from Karlstad
to Torsby so that they could have a more northerly route of stages but due to the answers Glenn have received, the rally HQ and
service park is likely to remain in Karlstad for 2017.

So to summarize it, the accommodation problem in northern Värmland is the main problem that needs to be solved.

http://www.vf.se/sport/bilsport/rallyts-stora-boende-problem-ar-inte-lost

[Rallyper]

But the areas of Falun/Borlänge for hosting and stages further north in Dalarna/Värmland could be a combination. Week 7 is probably more safe, maybe.

[seb_sh]

Yeah I think you're correct in your assessment and I agree with you Ben that Latvala is the perfect number two driver. He's not consistent enough to threaten Ogier over a season, but he is the next best in terms of raw pace. Enough so that if you're VW you wouldn't want him going to a rival.

I agree as well, I think up to now the VW trio was the best possible mix of drivers a team can hope for. However I do hope Meeke or Paddon can mix it up a bit in the future.

[denkimi]

I was counting Monte as driver error.

Sweden was driveshaft failure leaving him with 2wd, followed by suspension failure later that day - whether he hit something to cause that suspension failure (while trying to keep a 2wd WRC car on the road without losing too much time) or if it was mechanically due to the driveshaft I don't know.

Mexico he won.

Argentina was (dramatic) suspension failure while leading.

I think most people would consider him the current second best driver in WRC, VW also have the current best driver so they don't need Latvala to win everything - in fact they're probably quite happy for him to be further back in the points and not put pressure on Ogier as long they keep a comfortable lead in the manufacturers championship. I'd say his seat is safer than most.
the thing is, those suspension don't just break without a reason. if there suddenly is a hole in the bonnet, that usually means you've hit something you weren't supposed to hit.

[itix]

the thing is, those suspension don't just break without a reason. if there suddenly is a hole in the bonnet, that usually means you've hit something you weren't supposed to hit.
Maybe he hit something prior or maybe there was an undiscovered material weakness prior to the event but plenty of drivers hit the same stone and nothing happened.

[denkimi]

Maybe he hit something prior or maybe there was an undiscovered material weakness prior to the event but plenty of drivers hit the same stone and nothing happened.
i've heard that story before, but i find it hard to believe.
i doubt many drivers actually have hit that stone. it was not on the line, you could only hit it if you cut there.
perhaps it was bad luck, but if he would have stayed on the most used racing line, his damper most likely wouldn't have come through the bonnet.


if anybody has footage of other drivers on that same corner, feel free to share.

[GravelBen]

i've heard that story before, but i find it hard to believe.
i doubt many drivers actually have hit that stone. it was not on the line, you could only hit it if you cut there.
perhaps it was bad luck, but if he would have stayed on the most used racing line, his damper most likely wouldn't have come through the bonnet.

if anybody has footage of other drivers on that same corner, feel free to share.

I watched several in-car videos at the time as well as a few different outside angles - it wasn't 'a stone', it was bedrock on the line which had been exposed by previous cars. Most drivers were on the same line, some had a bang or clunk as they went over it but nobody elses suspension broke.

Latvala certainly didn't think it should have been enough to break the suspension!

[OldF]

i've heard that story before, but i find it hard to believe.
i doubt many drivers actually have hit that stone. it was not on the line, you could only hit it if you cut there.
perhaps it was bad luck, but if he would have stayed on the most used racing line, his damper most likely wouldn't have come through the bonnet.


if anybody has footage of other drivers on that same corner, feel free to share.


From these pics everybody can judge by themselves.

Teemu / Rallirinki ‏@HartusvuoriWRC Apr 24
The differences in driving lines for Latvala (top), Mikkelsen and Paddon on SS14 on corner after which JML crashed.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CgzEr0uWYAAlVT4.jpg

[kirungi okwogera]

From these pics everybody can judge by themselves.

Teemu / Rallirinki ‏@HartusvuoriWRC Apr 24
The differences in driving lines for Latvala (top), Mikkelsen and Paddon on SS14 on corner after which JML crashed.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CgzEr0uWYAAlVT4.jpg

I understand that, but the thing I keep coming back to is how rarely that ever happened to Loeb, and how rarely it happens to Ogier, and how frequently it happens to the more wildstyle drivers, especially Latvala. Maybe this is an explanation for an individual incident or two, but Latvala has 10 years career to look at now right? The man finds and hits stones, even those "in the road", consistently more often that some other drivers.

Even in this case, the lines are different. It could be that cutting harder as Paddon did, and Mikkelson seems to be farther right as well, helped them avoid the biggest impact. Maybe they were able to react to the changed road condition, or spot the bump coming in time, or whatever, and Latvala didn't. Or this could be the exception, but the rule is there in his long term results.

That said I agree that he's a very fast driver and deserves his place, but he's had a very long time to learn to improve his consistency so it's disappointing to see.

[Simmi]

I think it got debated a lot at the time of the accident but Latvala has to be considered unlucky. I do agree that the Loebs of this world do seem to float over stuff. And that wasn't down to chance - but still Latvala would have expected more from the Polo there.

[USER47]

It looks like Latvala has differently positioned camera than the others. The lines may very well be almost the same, maybe with Paddon cutting a bit more.

[seb_sh]

Yep it's very hard to tell and while Latvala does sometimes cause himself grief oftentimes, I don't think he can be blamed for this one.

[Kielder]

After the victory of Paddon in Argentina, I analyzed the eras of Loeb and Ogier to see the drivers that have achieved their first victory these years. These are the results:

· OGIER'S ERA:
2016: Paddon (Argentina).
2015: Meeke (Argentina) and Mikkelsen (Catalunya).
2014: Neuville (Germany).
2013: Sordo (Germany).

· LOEB'S ERA:
2012: Ostberg (Portugal).
2011: -
2010: Ogier (Portugal).
2009: -
2008: Latvala (Sweden).
2007: -
2006: Hirvonen (Australia).
2005: Duval (Australia).
2004: -

From these data many issues can be deduced at first glance. To me, the most revealing fact is that of these ten drivers, seven of them have been unable to win a second rally. In addition, in the years of Loeb, Latvala and Ogier managed to poke his head, achieving multiple wins (what's more, obviously, founding Ogier a new era). On the other hand, it's curious (although clearly not definitive), that all those who have won their first rally during these four years of Ogier's freehold have failed to repeat.

There are also many conclusions. The main one, as was evident before writing this post, is that specialists have disappeared (I really miss them...). The Championship hasn't had neither many wheels free nor the needed patience with some drivers too. The positive part of this story is that while during the nine years of Loeb only five drivers have won their first rally, during the last four with Ogier we have seen the identical amount of them doing the same. Saying it with other words, these four seasons someone has "appeared". However, the downside is that it's difficult to find in any of them a rival for Ogier. At least, what I hope is that there will be, in the short term, irruptions like Paddon and not re-occur circumstances for such drivers as Solberg staying seven years in the elite without winning anything (2006-2012) or Sordo spending a decade as official driver having risen to the top of the podium only once.

Finally, I have to say that it's better not to search what happened prior to 2004, because if we analyze that it's better that the "shootout" arrives to end everything once and for all.

[Barreis]

Duval won in 2005...

[Kielder]

Duval won in 2005...

My mistake writing the year, it's corrected now. Thanks!

[stefanvv]

There are also many conclusions. The main one, as was evident before writing this post, is that specialists have disappeared (I really miss them...). The Championship hasn't had neither many wheels free nor the needed patience with some drivers too. The positive part of this story is that while during the nine years of Loeb only five drivers have won their first rally, during the last four with Ogier we have seen the identical amount of them doing the same. Saying it with other words, these four seasons someone has "appeared". However, the downside is that it's difficult to find in any of them a rival for Ogier. At least, what I hope is that there will be, in the short term, irruptions like Paddon and not re-occur circumstances for such drivers as Solberg staying seven years in the elite without winning anything (2006-2012) or Sordo spending a decade as official driver having risen to the top of the podium only once.

Interesting analysis, however in Ogier's era we have now double teams comparing to Loeb's. This opens opportunities for more drivers so it is king of normal different to win.

[RAS007]

Interesting analysis, however in Ogier's era we have now double teams comparing to Loeb's. This opens opportunities for more drivers so it is king of normal different to win.

Loeb came along at an interesting time: the greats of the previous decade (Kankkunen, Sainz, Auriol, Makinen, McRae) were all well past their peak, or retired, and the specialists were disappearing. Loeb was part of the new era (Martin, Solberg, Gronholm to an extent), but due to a combination of factors (e.g.: Burns' illness, Martin retiring due to co-driver death), by the time 2007 came around, the competition was all but extinct, and disappeared completely after Gronholm retired. Would Loeb have won 9 in a row had he entered the top level of the sport in 1993? Possible, but seems unlikely. Either way, we'll never know, and its hard to take a credible position against the idea that his total domination of the WRC for 9 years was very damaging for the sport. I am really just nostalgic for a time when going into any event, there were 5 or 6 possible winners, which is something that seems to be long gone, sadly. If you're not sure what I'm talking about, read any Rallycourse up until 2005. That said, I am hopeful for the future.

[N.O.T]

Loeb came along at an interesting time: the greats of the previous decade (Kankkunen, Sainz, Auriol, Makinen, McRae) were all well past their peak, or retired, and the specialists were disappearing. Loeb was part of the new era (Martin, Solberg, Gronholm to an extent), but due to a combination of factors (e.g.: Burns' illness, Martin retiring due to co-driver death), by the time 2007 came around, the competition was all but extinct, and disappeared completely after Gronholm retired. Would Loeb have won 9 in a row had he entered the top level of the sport in 1993? Possible, but seems unlikely. Either way, we'll never know, and its hard to take a credible position against the idea that his total domination of the WRC for 9 years was very damaging for the sport. I am really just nostalgic for a time when going into any event, there were 5 or 6 possible winners, which is something that seems to be long gone, sadly. If you're not sure what I'm talking about, read any Rallycourse up until 2005. That said, I am hopeful for the future.

let it go son... just let it go... its over.

http://i.imgur.com/KspOoWH.jpg

[RAS007]

let it go son... just let it go... its over.

http://i.imgur.com/KspOoWH.jpg

.....and right on cue.

[dimviii]

http://www.diariomotor.com/competicion/imagenes/picscache/1440x655c/NZS6977_1440x655c.jpg

They are one of the teams most advanced are with the test, perhaps not because they have a winning base (and margin) as having Volkswagen, but have enough racing experience to know how to measure the tempos of development of a new car. In addition, having a more than proven as the C-Elysée TC1 engine, makes them have the most tied mechanical part, at least more than rivals like Toyota, to which they are watching them hobble in this area during the first tests they are made in our country with the Yaris WRC.

The aim of Citroën is not to be fighting for the title next season and in the first year of the C3 WRC. 2017 is aimed at the Satory continue to accumulate experience and evolving the car, maybe fighting for victories assiduously, while it will be in 2018 when the team look resolutely fight for the championship and for this, Yves Matton makes it clear that He wants a top driver in its ranks and by the words of head of team of the two chevrons, foreshadowed that perhaps Kris Meeke is not thinking like great candidate.

The perfect team is to bring us the title in 2018. Not so in 2017, I believe more in the long run. In 2017 we want to win some tests and this can make Kris. Then we have to see what the best option for the future. The Volkswagen drivers have only contract for the 2017 season and still Thierry, Dani and Mads are available. These are all experienced pilots. Of course we can also look for someone new. There are still more names. In late 2017, the market may seem totally different.

According to Matton own, there may be several scenarios, including that he would be the one to sign an experienced pilot (Sordo has confirmed talks with the French firm) or a promising young as second driver (in the past rang name Esapekka Lappi, Versailles but also rely heavily on their young drivers as Lefebvre or Gilbert), accompanying Kris Meeke in 2017 and wait to see what is released later this year in the other teams. Obviously the wet dream formations like Toyota or Citroen remains Sébastien Ogier.

It has not been established by now a strategy. It could be a very good second pilot. You could also think of a young driver. You could also wait until the end of 2017 to see if some drivers are free. There are two or three different scenarios, we will decide at the end of the first half of the year. If a driver is not in contact with us, then shows me that does not believe in our project, and I want to have only pilots who believe in us.

http://www.diariomotor.com/competicion/2016/05/20/citroen-busca-un-piloto-para-asaltar-el-titulo-del-wrc-en-2018/