[WRC] News & rumours (part IV) 2016

[Mirek]

If the news are true... I really doubt Citroën or M-Sport can pay for Ogier. He's going to be hugely expensive and he's not going anywhere out of sentiment. It's Hyundai or Toyota who can pay.

[Simmi]

Are some drivers about to get bought out of their contracts here? I had visions of Tanak running to M-Sport with a pen last night!

If you are Citroen, Hyundai etc it might be worth paying extra to get Ogier locked up for the next few years.

[Simmi]

If the news are true... I really doubt Citroën or M-Sport can pay for Ogier. He's going to be hugely expensive and he's not going anywhere out of sentiment. It's Hyundai or Toyota who can pay.

Ogier and a whole lot of other people will still be getting paid by VW next year no?

[rallyfiend]

If the news are true... I really doubt Citroën or M-Sport can pay for Ogier. He's going to be hugely expensive and he's not going anywhere out of sentiment. It's Hyundai or Toyota who can pay.

But with VW likely to be paying his salary for next year, maybe he'll go where he thinks he has the best weapon of choice.

He'll test them all, no doubt and then decide.

[tomhlord]

All that VW withdrawal is just end of season banter by the british journalists who are bantermasters of nothingness.

nothing will happen tot he VW program.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/126936

[sindroms]

So what does it mean?

‏@DMACK_Tyres @voiceofrally We’ve got space for a couple of drivers in the DMACK WRC Team!

[EightGear]

This is massive news, unbelievable.

[macebig]

Jouhki will probably sign up Latvala with Tommi ASAP.Mikkelsen can go anywhere.Ogier is the most difficult one.If Ford doesn't make an official comeback and name him no1 driver,most chances he will sit the season out.Hyundai won't pay him and Citroen (unless patriotism takes over) won't give him undisputed No1 status over Meeke.

[car]

All that VW withdrawal is just end of season banter by the british journalists who are bantermasters of nothingness.

nothing will happen tot he VW program.

N.O.T.... you've just had your a*se handed you big style!

[Mirek]

Hyundai won't pay him

Why?


and Citroen (unless patriotism takes over) won't give him undisputed No1 status over Meeke.

Why?

Sorry but there is no logic in both statements.

[bluuford]

N.O.T.... you've just had your a*se handed you big style!

I am dissapointed.. I thought he was god..

[dimviii]

If the news are true... I really doubt Citroën or M-Sport can pay for Ogier. He's going to be hugely expensive and he's not going anywhere out of sentiment. It's Hyundai or Toyota who can pay.

why citroen cant pay Ogier? didn't they payed Loeb for a decade?
imho Ogier will go to citroen,the reason is that this is the team is most capable to be world champion.

[René]

VW leaves the championship, but can be replaced by Skoda, Seat? Other brand of the group. May be we just have only one part of the announcement???

[dimviii]

Citroen (unless patriotism takes over) won't give him undisputed No1 status over Meeke.

nice point! I am dreaming dogfights without No1 status,and the best ever stage end interviews from both.lol

[macebig]

Why?



Why?

Sorry but there is no logic in both statements.

A.Ogier price is north of 3mil and he comes with undisputed No1 status.All of Hyundais drivers cost less than 2mil and Neuville /Paddon won't be happy by being pushed aside.
B.Citroen may be able to pay the price but Meeke won't be contend with No2 status.Plus,Ogier doesn't have the best of relationships with Citroen.

[EightGear]

David Evans from Autosport is suggesting Ogier may end up at M-Sport, but that sounds pretty unreasonable.

[Mirek]

why citroen cant pay Ogier? didn't they payed Loeb for a decade?
imho Ogier will go to citroen,the reason is that this is the team is most capable to be world champion.

Because PSA has a lot less cash than Toyota or Hyundai. Let's see but with Loeb it was different since he was with them since the beginning and his position towards the brand and its marketing was somewhat different.


A.Ogier price is north of 3mil and he comes with undisputed No1 status.All of Hyundais drivers cost less than 2mil and Neuville /Paddon won't be happy by being pushed aside.

Hyundai is one of the wealthiest car makers in the world and their WRC spending is probably close to VW and way higher than of Citroën or M-Sport. They are there to win and Ogier is the key.


B.Citroen may be able to pay the price but Meeke won't be contend with No2 status.Plus,Ogier doesn't have the best of relationships with Citroen.

Sorry but it's insane not to give clear No.1 status to the very best driver around. Every WRC manager would have to be completely crazy not to offer No.1 seat to Ogier.

[Simmi]

A.Ogier price is north of 3mil and he comes with undisputed No1 status.All of Hyundais drivers cost less than 2mil and Neuville /Paddon won't be happy by being pushed aside.
B.Citroen may be able to pay the price but Meeke won't be contend with No2 status.Plus,Ogier doesn't have the best of relationships with Citroen.

The world champion comes on the market at short notice. Frankly half of this stuff you mention goes out of the window.

[Arwel Davies]

I can't see Ogier sitting out another year from the WRC. He'll want to drive next year and defend his title and will go where he thinks he will have the best chance at that. As I said earlier I think it'll be Citroen. I know there is history there but they can both offer each other something. Ogier offers his speed and consistency and is a far more developed driver than what he was when he left Citroen in 2011. Citroen can offer him a car that has been built to win the World Championship. Yes there is Kris Meeke there and could reignite that feeling that was there when Loeb was his team mate but given the opportunity to have them both in one team, I think Citroen will take that. They may not offer him the money he was on at VW but that wont matter.

[Mintexmemory]

why citroen cant pay Ogier? didn't they payed Loeb for a decade?
imho Ogier will go to citroen,the reason is that this is the team is most capable to be world champion.
Someone just asked if I knew anything about WRC (I chose to ignore the implication) - at this time of year contracts, even if not public, are very much tied up. 4 teams with a 12 seats is an interesting game of musical chairs! Regardless of whether Citroen would pay for Ogier there is a huge barrier to that happening, namely Matton. Maybe a French member would like to comment but I'd be amazed if the 2 guys could form a working relationship. So, of Ford, Hyundai and Toyota; only Hyundai seem to have the car / cash combo to appeal to Ogier (Unless Ford are now boosting M Sport funds). This would require Hyundai to buy out one of their pre-contracted drivers.

[dimviii]

for the good of the sport must be Ogier and Meeke in same team

even not in my dreams!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

NOT, AL14 etc.. what you say now to the rumours you master-cynics ! :D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Please Ford grab this chance to come back... bring in Ogier and almost guarantee the Title !

[Duvel]

My gues;

Ogier goes to Citroen, forget about history. Battle whit Meeke could make things interesting. Lefevre wil be dropped.
Latvalla, I see him ending up at M-sport. (whit Tanak and Camili)
Mikkelsen to Toyota, getting nr1 status whit Juho an Lappi as nr 2 and 3.

Hyundai are happy whit current line up, whit the Polo out of the way there car could be best. Driver line-up is ok to.

Ostberg whit D-mack.

My hope;

Skoda somehow getting upgraded to WRC team, than everything stays the same for the drivers. But i dont see that happening...


But first, wait for official confirmation of the news.. would be really sad if true.

[N.O.T]

The VW team is not going anywhere, do not worry.

http://i.imgur.com/a0H2f7R.jpg

[rallyfiend]

The VW team is not going anywhere, do not worry.

http://i.imgur.com/a0H2f7R.jpg

Tell that to the 80+ people who've probably just lost their job you irrelevant, unknowledgeable clown.

[AL14]

NOT, AL14 etc.. what you say now to the rumours you master-cynics ! :D

You have some problems with me but I don't have with you.
Let it go... you didn't even understand what I mean. just ignore me.

[Rallyper]

Tell that to the 80+ people who've probably just lost their job you irrelevant, unknowledgeable clown.

What about VW- RedBull private team? So maybe NOT have the answer?

Could we maybe have a special VW topic? Soon it´s not rumours anymore.

[N.O.T]

You have some problems with me but I don't have with you.
Let it go... you didn't even understand what I mean. just ignore me.

You have to relax Italian infidel, do not take everything so personal, especially from people who are quite basic and simple.

you will live longer and have way more fun.

[MM WRC]

My gues;

Ogier goes to Citroen, forget about history. Battle whit Meeke could make things interesting. Lefevre wil be dropped.
Latvalla, I see him ending up at M-sport. (whit Tanak and Camili)
Mikkelsen to Toyota, getting nr1 status whit Juho an Lappi as nr 2 and 3.

Hyundai are happy whit current line up, whit the Polo out of the way there car could be best. Driver line-up is ok to.

Ostberg whit D-mack.

My hope;

Skoda somehow getting upgraded to WRC team, than everything stays the same for the drivers. But i dont see that happening...


But first, wait for official confirmation of the news.. would be really sad if true.

I agree with you. Apart from Östberg. I'm afraid he'll get unemployed.

[paddocknews]

Despite developing an all-new Polo WRC to 2017 WRC regulations, Volkswagen does not intend to provide it to customer teams.

"The costs involved in developing the 2017 car will be absorbed into the existing R&D budget. There are no plans to offer it through a customer programme. It will be mothballed,"

[giu canbera]

1° Lets Open twitter and facebook
2° And Start begging VW to allow ProDrive, Skoda, RedBullRacing, EKSrx to run the new Polos as costumer team!

3...2....1.. go

[cali]

David Evans from Autosport is suggesting Ogier may end up at M-Sport, but that sounds pretty unreasonable.
With a help from Ford Europe it becomes quite reasonable to get the jackpot (both titles).

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

[dimviii]

Colin Clark ‏@voiceofrally · 2m2 minutes ago

Ogier last week @Rally_Forum ""I admire Malcolm and one of my regrets is not having worked with him, but who knows what the future holds"

[WUff1]

At least it doesn´t look good for Lefebvre, Ostberg, Lappi - whoever still hasn´t got a contract for 2017.

Curious what would happen with Skoda Motorsport. Customer service for Fabia will need to be maintained, maybe some drivers will end at BRR (like PH Sport and Citroen).

[dupanton]

At least it doesn´t look good for Lefebvre, Ostberg, Lappi - whoever still hasn´t got a contract for 2017.

Curious what would happen with Skoda Motorsport. Customer service for Fabia will need to be maintained, maybe some drivers will end at BRR (like PH Sport and Citroen).

Lefebvre has a contract! But I think for Ogier, contracts can easily be terminated...

[RS]

At least it doesn´t look good for Lefebvre, Ostberg, Lappi - whoever still hasn´t got a contract for 2017.

Curious what would happen with Skoda Motorsport. Customer service for Fabia will need to be maintained, maybe some drivers will end at BRR (like PH Sport and Citroen).

They haven't said anything about closing down Skoda Motorsport.

Last week Skoda Auto announced profits for the first nine months of this year of around 1 billion Euros.

[Rally Power]

Can’t help it…I need to have a sincere NOT rage moment: VW’s board members are sick retarded bastards without a plan! Despite their millions euros wages and bonus they were useless defending their company and the car industry against dickhead eco politicians that will only be happy when humanity returns to caves. They’re a bunch of backstabbers unable to understand the nature and heritage of rallysport. I hope they all die on their electric self driving pieces of junk!

[Danny0405]

An interesting point about Ogier: if he decides to stay next year, he would be in quite a similar situation to Kankkunen in 1986. Forced to leave the best team which withdraws the championship in a context of rule changes (even if it is not the cause in the VW case). And with a huge challenge: winning a championship with different manufacturers (only Rohrl and Kankkunen made it hitherto).

In my opinion, he would be a thrilling challenge to see.

[Francis44]

He will not sit out for sure, he wants to beat Loeb's run of consecutive championship wins, and I still think he is far superior to everyone to win in any car except Toyota.


Can’t help it…I need to have a sincere NOT rage moment: VW’s board members are sick retarded bastards without a plan! Despite their millions euros wages and bonus they were useless defending their company and the car industry against dickhead eco politicians that will only be happy when humanity returns to caves. They’re a bunch of backstabbers unable to understand the nature and heritage of rallysport. I hope they all die on their electric self driving pieces of junk!

I am sorry but what are you on about?! If any company lies to it's costumers it should be penalised, if the small ones do so should the big ones. It's easy to lie and damage environment while filling your pockets.

[Mirek]

I am sorry but what are you on about?! If any company lies to it's costumers it should be penalised, if the small ones do so should the big ones. It's easy to lie and damage environment while filling your pockets.

It's in fact VAG which enjoyed a competitive advantage through cheating. It's completely wrong to portrait them as some sort of victim of a higher eco-terrorist plot. I am well aware that they weren't alone but other's cheating doesn't give anyone a right to cheat as well.

[tomhlord]

Tell that to the 80+ people who've probably just lost their job you irrelevant, unknowledgeable clown.

Word is the jobs are safe.

[Mirek]

I am not afraid about the VW Motorsport employees. Even if VW fire them they must easily find a new job in a minute.

[Eric]

Toyota should offer at least one of the VWdrivers a contract. Imagine all the knowledge they are sitting on after testing the 2017 car for almost a year now. Guessing Ogier will go to Citröen and Mikkelsen and/or Latvala starting with Toyota

[BigWorm]

Wow, I'm quite shocked. Ogier to M-Sport like Malcolm always wanted?

[janvanvurpa]

Can’t help it…I need to have a sincere NOT rage moment: VW’s board members are sick retarded bastards without a plan! Despite their millions euros wages and bonus they were useless defending their company and the car industry against dickhead eco politicians that will only be happy when humanity returns to caves. They’re a bunch of backstabbers unable to understand the nature and heritage of rallysport. I hope they all die on their electric self driving pieces of junk!


Your rants are far better than that troglodyte.
There's substance and passion, not merely an unjustified contempt of everbody and everything in every post for 10 years...

[TWRC]

I am not afraid about the VW Motorsport employees. Even if VW fire them they must easily find a new job in a minute.
I think luring FX and other senior engineers away could be very important too for the others.

[Rally Power]

I am sorry but what are you on about?! If any company lies to it's costumers it should be penalised, if the small ones do so should the big ones. It's easy to lie and damage environment while filling your pockets.

Don’t be naïf; this had nothing to do with consumers rights. Modern wars are taken at the Markets and like the old ones they’re ugly and bloody. VW was another European sitting duck company blown up by the US authorities. Comparing to GM’s faulty ignition process or Exxon Valdez affair anyone can notice that VW and BP scandals damage control were totally ineffective because of American protectionism.

VW’s WRC pull out may not be directly linked to dieselgate’s financial burdens, like it has been suggested. The emission scandal repercussions spread widely into many circles of our global society and some of them tried very hard to take advantage. The ecologist lobbies, with vast media connections able to influence public opinion, are among those. VW was fast and massively pressured by opinion makers and politicians* to let down their efficient combustion engines and speed out the development of other technologies, regarded as eco friendly.

This ‘pollution burden’ was probably the main reason for Audi and VW motorsport withdrawals and it may affect other manus and series. WRC needs to get clever and do some hard PR work in order to show everyone this is a sport that deeply respects Nature and effectively helps to preserve the environment.


*http://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-emissions-germany-idUSKCN1280G7

[dimviii]

I think luring FX and other senior engineers away could be very important too for the others.

very good point TWRC!

[BigWorm]

VW mechanics and engineers... Top people in their departments also without work for next year. Should they be signed by teams it means other workers are without jobs..

And not to forget the car, probably a sophisticated machine never to see the stages. What a waste....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Oops...

http://acm.mc/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Visuel_WRC2017.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Given their total dominance of the VWRC for the last 4 seasons (and every chance that this would continue in the new car), it could be a blessing in disguise that they leave and we have a close, competitive 2017 Championship to enjoy ...

Or will whoever gets Ogier then dominate ?

[BigWorm]

I agree with you. Apart from Östberg. I'm afraid he'll get unemployed.

To be fair, it would be a bigger loss for the sport if Ogier is unemployed rather than Östberg.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

You have some problems with me but I don't have with you.
Let it go... you didn't even understand what I mean. just ignore me.

Gladly. And as you insulted me a while back its not me who has the problem.

A shame that you have to join the ignore list as N.O.T. has enough cynicism and negativity for everyone to put up with.

[macebig]

Given their total dominance of the VWRC for the last 4 seasons (and every chance that this would continue in the new car), it could be a blessing in disguise that they leave and we have a close, competitive 2017 Championship to enjoy ...

Or will whoever gets Ogier then dominate ?

I think 2017 won't be easy for Ogier.Meeke and Paddon have tailor made cars to their likings but the Frenchman will have to step into the unknown with minimal testing and zero adjustmests.First rallies will be crucial.

[AL14]

Gladly. And as you insulted me a while back its not me who has the problem.

A shame that you have to join the ignore list as N.O.T. has enough cynicism and negativity for everyone to put up with.
Ok let's get back on topic now...

[Andre Oliveira]

Ogier will be champion in any car. He is the best. Cars diference not so big

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ironic !
http://images.wrc.com/News/2016/October/10036_Ogier-GB-2016_536_896x504.jpg?

[BigWorm]

Ogier will be champion in any car. He is the best. Cars diference not so big

Excactly, he has won events in 3 different cars. His pace is genuine.

Will he be as fruitful as he has been in VW? Not sure, but he will definitely be amongst the leading times.

[EstWRC]

Tänak + Ogier in M-sport ? would be pretty awesome

[Danny0405]

I think 2017 won't be easy for Ogier.Meeke and Paddon have tailor made cars to their likings but the Frenchman will have to step into the unknown with minimal testing and zero adjustmests.First rallies will be crucial.

Yes, it is one of the reasons which may lead him to a year-off. He is 4x world champion and he may consider he has Nothing to prove anymore against this generation of drivers.

However, if he decides to come in the field and to face Meeke or Neuville/Paddon on their ground of to face them with a private team (M-Sport) or a new team (Toyota), it could be a thrilling challenge like very few other drivers have succeeded.

[Mintexmemory]

Tänak + Ogier in M-sport ? would be pretty awesome

It would be awesome if OT has the mental strength to deal with having the best for comparison. JML couldn't and Mikkelsen hasn't come near to being considered as a genuine rival.

[itix]

NOT, AL14 etc.. what you say now to the rumours you master-cynics ! :D

How is AL14 involved in this? He hasn't done a thing as far as I'm aware. NOT offered his usual cocky "expertise" literally the minute before the world motorsport media via various different sources said the exact opposite so he's a legit target but I fail to see how AL14 is involved in this...

You are becoming too trigger happy Eddie!

[Danny0405]

Tänak + Ogier in M-sport ? would be pretty awesome

Tanak + Ogier + Ostberg would be the perfect team for them.
Ostberg to pay, to be consistent and bring some points.
Tanak as a fast driver to achieve his development (because Ogier could stay only one year). And Ogier for the championship.

Very good team, quite complete which would be very hard to beat in a manufacturers championship even with a Neuville-Paddon-Sordo or Meeke-Mikkelsen-Breen line-up.

[car]

Ironic !
http://images.wrc.com/News/2016/October/10036_Ogier-GB-2016_536_896x504.jpg?


where is the irony? what am i missing?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

where is the irony? what am i missing?

Tried to delete the post but didnt work... the caption read 'One stage from big trouble'... http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/october-2016/ogier-fears/page/4041--12-12-.html

[Fast Eddie WRC]

How is AL14 involved in this? He hasn't done a thing as far as I'm aware. NOT offered his usual cocky "expertise" literally the minute before the world motorsport media via various different sources said the exact opposite so he's a legit target but I fail to see how AL14 is involved in this...


With his usual cynicism he immediately said the info from Autosport was not worthy of discussion as it was not definitely confirmed.

[WUff1]

Tanak + Ogier + Ostberg would be the perfect team for them.
Ostberg to pay, to be consistent and bring some points.
Tanak as a fast driver to achieve his development (because Ogier could stay only one year). And Ogier for the championship.

Very good team, quite complete which would be very hard to beat in a manufacturers championship even with a Neuville-Paddon-Sordo or Meeke-Mikkelsen-Breen line-up.

If you get Ogier, you don´t need a slow driver like Ostberg to bring some few points.

[Simmi]

Ogier to M-Sport would be absolutely fantastic. Fingers crossed it happens and it lures Ford back in, perhaps for '18.

[BigWorm]

If you get Ogier, you don´t need a slow driver like Ostberg to bring some few points.

I agree, Ogier is even more consistent than Östberg and the points he would bring is even higher than Östberg's.

Östberg is done, time for him to move on to RallyX or whatever opportunities there may be for him.

[tommeke_B]

Thoughts to the young talented drivers who will lose a lot of opportunities... :(

[Danny0405]

If you get Ogier, you don´t need a slow driver like Ostberg to bring some few points.

It depends on the level of the new Fiesta.
Moreover, when you have Ogier, you do not need any driver in particular so, for M-Sport which is a little short on money, it is better to take Ostberg (who pay a part of his drive) than to be in a situation where you cannot afford a third car.

And more generally, with Ogier, you do not need a Meeke, Neuville or Latvala but on the contrary, a driver who "brings some few points", just enough to win the manufacturers championship.

[itix]

With his usual cynicism he immediately said the info from Autosport was not worthy of discussion as it was not definitely confirmed.

He said (and was absolutely correct) that speculative articles are nothing to base your facts on. When we find a source with facts (which we have now) he would join the debate.

That's it. You are working yourself up for nothing.

[EightGear]

Thoughts to the young talented drivers who will lose a lot of opportunities... :(

And to Sven Smeets who thought he was going to run a WRC team...

[spyros]

I think if only ford motors enters he will join them,otherwise only Toyota could pay him........

[dodge33cymru]

Really disappointed in the decision from VW, this is like Peugeot quitting the WEC to save face despite having spent 90% of the costs.

I'm not an expert on the contracts but with the deals their drivers were on I'd be very surprised if they are

All this because they feel they need to keep their short-term profits high at the expense of their foundation because of some of their company's fraudulent actions elsewhere.

[TWRC]

It depends on the level of the new Fiesta.
Moreover, when you have Ogier, you do not need any driver in particular so, for M-Sport which is a little short on money, it is better to take Ostberg (who pay a part of his drive) than to be in a situation where you cannot afford a third car.

And more generally, with Ogier, you do not need a Meeke, Neuville or Latvala but on the contrary, a driver who "brings some few points", just enough to win the manufacturers championship.
Why would M-Sport need a 3rd car (they will have plenty privateers also next year)? They don't care about the manufacturers' championship too much, they care about winning rallies or at least finishing on the podium. And Ogier on his worst day is more capable of delivering said results than Ostberg on his best I'm afraid... Not to mention getting sponsors would be easier for Malcolm if he could get Ogier, his performance and marketing value is much better than Ostberg's.

[cali]

And to Sven Smeets who thought he was going to run a WRC team...
I'm afraid Capito is a sneaky sob who knew or had a gut feeling on what's gonna happen next. Well played I must say!

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

[EightGear]

Really disappointed in the decision from VW, this is like Peugeot quitting the WEC to save face despite having spent 90% of the costs.

I'm not an expert on the contracts but with the deals their drivers were on I'd be very surprised if they are

All this because they feel they need to keep their short-term profits high at the expense of their foundation because of some of their company's fraudulent actions elsewhere.
This isn't about short term profits though.

It's a message to the outside world they are serious about the issue. As has been said before, to the outside it's hard to justify spending tens of millions on a motorsport programme when you're facing big problems like they are.

Didn't Ford pull out when they were in some shit as well? They had everything in place for the next years ready to go maybe even more like VW have now with the new car.

It's a big shame but unfortunately the way it works.

[dodge33cymru]

Not to mention, I'm feeling robbed that the 2017 Polo will be consigned to the bin with the Group S cars. Particularly disappointing as it was surely going to be the fastest car rally in has ever seen.

[macebig]

Not to mention, I'm feeling robbed that the 2017 Polo will be consigned to the bin with the Group S cars. Particularly disappointing as it was surely going to be the fastest car rally in has ever seen.

On the bright side,Codemasters may be able to pick up a license for the 2017 Polo prototype on the cheap for Dirt Rally 2...

[seb_sh]

Sad news, I was hoping they would at least get one more year but I can't say I'm shocked. Withdrawing from WEC and WRC will barely make a dent on the whole but I guess they're cutting everything that's not essential and not fully electric. A big part of their strategy is to invest heavily on electric cars. So I guess it doesn't matter how much they spent on the new car any extra euro is just wasted if it's not going to development of electric cars. Oh and I wouldn't count on seeing any privateer VW cars, as they're not "finished" and they surely don't want them to be there and behind the competition.

Suddenly 3 of the best 5 drivers (in my opinion) are on the market. M-Sport and Toyota are in the best position to capitalise on this because their driver line-ups are still quite open. But I bet Citroen can open up 1 space and give partial programs to Breen and Lefebvre. Hyundai would need to spend some cash to drop one of their drivers and grab one of the VW boys, not sure if it's worth going for Latvala but Ogier and Mikkelsen could replace any of their drivers and be an improvement.

My prediction:
Citroen: Ogier, Meeke, Breen+Lefebvre sharing
Hyundai: Neuville, Sordo, Paddon
Ford: Mikkelsen, Tanak, Ostberg
Toyota: Latvala, Hanninen, Lappi
DMack: Camilli, Evans

My wish: swap Ogier and Mikkelsen

Another point that comes to mind is this is a big disadvantage to newer drivers like Tidemand or Suninen because there are once again much fewer top seats available than it seemed.

[Danny0405]

Why would M-Sport need a 3rd car (they will have plenty privateers also next year)? They don't care about the manufacturers' championship too much, they care about winning rallies or at least finishing on the podium. And Ogier on his worst day is more capable of delivering said results than Ostberg on his best I'm afraid... Not to mention getting sponsors would be easier for Malcolm if he could get Ogier, his performance and marketing value is much better than Ostberg's.

The issue you are addressing is not the same.
Is Ogier better than Ostberg and will he bring more point than Ostberg? Of course, I do not even see who could tell the contrary.

For Wilson, the question is: is he only interested by the driver title or by the manufacturers championship too?
I am pretty sure that he would want to win both titles if he has the money (and privateers do not count for the manufacturers championship).

This is the main think many people do not understand about Ostberg. The issue is not to chose between Ostberg and another driver, it is to chose between Ostberg and nothing as Ostberg is able to pay (at least a part of) his drive.

From Malcolm's perspective the issue is simple: you can have only 2 drivers on your team (Tanak and Ogier) which is effectively a great team and could win the manufacturers championship. However, other teams have 3 drivers and you are short in money for a 3rd driver.
And you have an available driver who can pay his drive and who will probably achieve his 5th season with 100+ points.

What do you do? If you are logical and without considering that you like of not Ostberg, you take Ostberg as a 3rd driver because it increases your chances in the championship for little money.

[CivEngine]

IMHO I think we have to wait until official announcement before getting in deep on speculating. Time will tell but, if true, obviously are bad news.

I'm also afraid that the 'Silly Season' (that for sure will start sooner than later) stops many drivers progressions...Lappi, Evans..

[macebig]

Mikkelsen had some beef with Wilson from the RamSport/Ford Norway years,didn't he?

[RS]

Re: DMack, if your tyres are not at the same level as the opposition I think you really don't want Mads in the car from a performance or PR point of view.

Evans and Suninen please, if they run two cars.

[dimviii]

Mikkelsen could replace any of their drivers and be an improvement.


I am not sure...

[Lundefaret]

I'm afraid Capito is a sneaky sob who knew or had a gut feeling on what's gonna happen next. Well played I must say!

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

I actually think you have that the wrong way around.
If its true that VW pulls out, I am very confident that the whole 2016-season for Volkswagen was because Jost Capito fought for it.

[dimviii]

Marc Martí Moreno ‏@MarcMartiWRC · 4h4 hours ago


@CarlosdelBarrio I believe that safe Latvala at the Finish/Toyota Team

[cali]

I actually think you have that the wrong way around.
If its true that VW pulls out, I am very confident that the whole 2016-season for Volkswagen was because Jost Capito fought for it.
Hmmm... On a second note you could be right as well :) but... Then again he knew something that Smeets did not know....

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier seems to get on really well with Tanak recently... good interaction and clear mutual respect. I think M-Sport is a real possibility with the other comment about him liking to have worked with MW.

His Citroen history, and Meeke's comments about him this season, does not look like a good fit at all.

Hyundai.. who knows, but they do seem settled and their current drivers in decent form.

[seb_sh]

I am not sure...

It's close I admit but in my opinion he's as fast as Neuville and more consistent, faster than Sordo overall (maybe not on tarmac) and just as consistent and more complete than Paddon at the moment.

[seb_sh]

Ogier seems to get on really well with Tanak recently... good interaction and clear mutual respect. I think M-Sport is a real possibility with the other comment about him liking to have worked with MW.

His Citroen history, and Meeke's comments about him this season, does not look like a good fit at all.

Hyundai.. who knows, but they do seem settled and their current drivers in decent form.

I'm not sure those things matter so much. In the end Citroen and Ogier both want to win and I think together they have the best chance.

[seb_sh]

Marc Martí Moreno ‏@MarcMartiWRC · 4h4 hours ago


@CarlosdelBarrio I believe that safe Latvala at the Finish/Toyota Team

I bet phonecalls have already been made ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

He said (and was absolutely correct) that speculative articles are nothing to base your facts on. When we find a source with facts (which we have now) he would join the debate.

That's it. You are working yourself up for nothing.

Speculative ? No, they had good sources. This was proven today.

And anyway when a story was this big we are supposed to ignore it until its 100% confirmed ?!

There is fair cynicism and then there is this 'I'm so cool I dont believe anything' attitude, which is just pathetic.

[CivEngine]

Marc Martí Moreno ‏@MarcMartiWRC · 4h4 hours ago


@CarlosdelBarrio I believe that safe Latvala at the Finish/Toyota Team

In fact Marc and Carlos were just guessing future possibilities.

[stefanvv]

I'm not sure those things matter so much. In the end Citroen and Ogier both want to win and I think together they have the best chance.

I'm convinced Ford/M-Sport wouldn't refuse some titles either.

[Allez Andruet]

Hyundai would need to spend some cash to drop one of their drivers and grab one of the VW boys, not sure if it's worth going for Latvala but Ogier and Mikkelsen could replace any of their drivers and be an improvement.

I wouldn't say so. Ofcourse, Ogier will probably win the title with any of the teams (except for Toyota perhaps), but I don't think Latvala or especially Mikkelsen will be that kind of huge assets they're being marketed at the moment. I think a lot of WRC-caliber drivers would at least have done the same results as Mikkelsen, if they had been given FOUR FULL SEASONS in the best car of the series. The same almost goes for Latvala as well, but atleast he's shown remarkable speed few times (none this year however) during that four-year period.

[HaCo]

Is this an opportunity for Skoda to enter WRC? Let's hope so!

[stefanvv]

FOUR FULL SEASONS

Part time testing is different from full-time, so I wouldn't say he was at equal terms with Ogier/Latvala.

[dimviii]

I bet phonecalls have already been made ;)

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_11_2016/post-4-0-73893200-1478027285.jpg
http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_11_2016/post-12-0-86605700-1478026607.jpg
http://www.autonewsinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/MICHEL-NANDAN-portrait.jpg
http://cdn-7.motorsport.com/static/img/mgl/1700000/1710000/1712000/1712300/1712357/s9/wrc-rally-sardinia-2014-malcolm-wilson-m-sport.jpg
http://image2.redbull.com/rbcom/010/2016-10-16/1331824072924_7/0010/1/320/213/7/sebastien-ogier-fourth-word-rally-championship.jpg

[dimviii]

Is this an opportunity for Skoda to enter WRC? Let's hope so!

I wouldn't be so sure if the dieselgate will not affect other members of vw group.

[Munkvy]

Sordo a while ago in an interview said something about as long as he was wanted and was competitive he would continue in WRC... Is this Hyundai's chance to offer him a retirement package he can't say no to?

Can you imagine the fireworks of an Ogier/Paddon/Neuville team...?

[jonkka]

Do not forget that if VW pulls the plug and doesn't participate in 2017 WRC they still have their drivers under contract. Which means that they will get salary from VW (at least for 2017, maybe longer depending on their contractual terms). Which would mean that they can drive for anyone at very low price or even for free without affecting their income - which in turn means that missing budget wouldn't be a problem.

Also, for 2017 any team is a potential employer because everyone is in same situation eg. with new and unproven car. The only downside is that the three VW drivers have not tested any of those new cars (which they'll do before signing) and will not have same amount of testing than other drivers that have developed those cars. So in this sense, switch for 2017 season is a bit easier to make than normally.

So the big question for them is: which team provides not only best car for 2017 but also best total package for 2018 when they conceivably have to be paid for real.

[Zeakiwi]

Toyota sell over 60 000 cars a year in France and around 12 000 a year in Finland. Do the marketing departments get a say in who the rally teams get to sign as the driver.
Latvala to EKS WRX or Marklund?
Ogier to Toyota? and Hanninen kept on as a test driver.

Ostberg to become a 'Henning Solberg' doing selected Euro rounds

[Andre Oliveira]

FFSA - M-Sport relation are better than ever with Rallye Jeunes deal....

[RS]

Is this an opportunity for Skoda to enter WRC? Let's hope so!

It would be great but even if it were to happen i can't see it before 2018 or even 2019. Skoda take their time.

I am sure they would do much better than last time now that the team is much better managed and engineered.

[EstWRC]

Ogier seems to get on really well with Tanak recently... good interaction and clear mutual respect. I think M-Sport is a real possibility with the other comment about him liking to have worked with MW.


i have noticed it also, especially in Wales last week. Like people say here, he doesnt get a along with Meeke very well, so for me it leaves Toyota or M-sport for Ogier.

[WUff1]

I wouldn't be so sure if the dieselgate will not affect other members of vw group.

Yes, we shouldn´t forget also Audi has to pack in at WEC.

[WUff1]

Toyota sell over 60 000 cars a year in France and around 12 000 a year in Finland. Do the marketing departments get a say in who the rally teams get to sign as the driver.
Latvala to EKS WRX or Marklund?
Ogier to Toyota? and Hanninen kept on as a test driver.

Ostberg to become a 'Henning Solberg' doing selected Euro rounds

As long as Makinen is the boss I don´t see any other driver at Toyota than Finnish ones.

[Andre Oliveira]

Great team ;)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmoEaJ0WAAATqRK?format=jpg&name=large

[Andre Oliveira]

Would Ogier try be the ultimate legend? Changing team and become World Rally Champion, something that Seb v1.0 never did?

[AL14]

Since we are trying to predict:
I think that Ogier will go to the one who will offer more €€ and has a winning car.
It means Toyota is out of the equation cause even if tommi will do a good job this year they will not win. Also M-Sport is out since they have not money.

I see Hyundai advantaged but would not be surprised for a return of Seb in a french team. The past is past...

[dimviii]

Would Ogier try be the ultimate legend? Changing team and become World Rally Champion, something that Seb v1.0 never did?

lol

[RAS007]

Would Ogier try be the ultimate legend? Changing team and become World Rally Champion, something that Seb v1.0 never did?

Well, Kankkunen won 4 titles with 3 different manufacturers, so that makes him the greatest, in my opinion. Would be great to see Ogier trying it in a different car.

[er88]

Since we are trying to predict:
I think that Ogier will go to the one who will offer more €€ and has a winning car.
It means Toyota is out of the equation cause even if tommi will do a good job this year they will not win. Also M-Sport is out since they have not money.

I see Hyundai advantaged but would not be surprised for a return of Seb in a french team. The past is past...
Perfect time for Ford to return

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Andre Oliveira]

Only little tweeks to livery ;)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B75eZp6IMAAgTD0?format=jpg&name=large

[BigWorm]

Still no confirmation yet ;)

[irish_tiger]

Thoughts to the young talented drivers who will lose a lot of opportunities... :(

Yes it would be a travesty to see a 'yesterdays man' like Jari Mati Latvala get another opportunity with another team and be seen as a potential winner in the eyes of a team manager .Rally GB was his 15th time doing it !!! ....There are too many of these 'stale drivers' including Dani Sordo , Mads Ostberg doing the rounds of the WRC and there is no opportunity for any new young drivers .

[bassist]

Yes it would be a travesty to see a 'yesterdays man' like Jari Mati Latvala get another opportunity with another team and be seen as a potential winner in the eyes of a team manager .Rally GB was his 15th time doing it !!! ....There are too many of these 'stale drivers' including Dani Sordo , Mads Ostberg doing the rounds of the WRC and there is no opportunity for any new young drivers .

I agree - time for a good `Spring Clean`

[focus206]

I hope that if this is true, VW will create a semi-works team in M-Sport style, would be a waste otherwise... Hoping they will make an expection for their bulls**t politics of their cars run only and exclusively under VW Motorsport banner. But I doubt they care.

[AL14]

Perfect time for Ford to return

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Would be great but that's not a decison you make so quickly. Maybe if they would have known some months ago...

[er88]

Would be great but that's not a decison you make so quickly. Maybe if they would have known some months ago...
If they were planning to return in 2018, which is what I had heard, they could accelerate their comeback with this news to get Ogier. Or maybe they have already decided to return in 2017 ;)?
Remember everything is nearly in place with Msport anyway, who have tested and developed the car with a lot of technical assistance from Ford.

They just need the financial clout that a huge global manufacturer would bring to land Seb. He is a gamechanger for these teams, in that he is as close as you can get to guaranteed success in the WRC. Every team including Citroen and Hyundai should be trying to attract Seb by doing whatever it takes.....

[Mirek]

Yes, we shouldn´t forget also Audi has to pack in at WEC.

That was mainly because of Porsche a) beating them in Le Mans and b) having decisive word in VAG.

[Mirek]

Is this an opportunity for Skoda to enter WRC? Let's hope so!

I don't think so. We'll be happy if they continue with R5 works team. In this moment the official word is that they won't reduce motorsport activities for next year.

[AndyRAC]

I hope that if this is true, VW will create a semi-works team in M-Sport style, would be a waste otherwise... Hoping they will make an expection for their bulls**t politics of their cars run only and exclusively under VW Motorsport banner. But I doubt they care.

It's not their style to do this - and as the reports says, they won't be changing this policy. The 2017 WRCar will go to the VW museum most probably.

[BigWorm]

It's not their style to do this - and as the reports says, they won't be changing this policy. The 2017 WRCar will go to the VW museum most probably.

Can't help but smile when I see your location, it reminds me of a stage in a certain rally game... ;)

To stay on topic, they have not let their car to be used by privateers as of yet, so that wouldn't change I think.

[KKS]

Some remarks:
- You all put Ogier to M-Sport with Tanak alongside, but you forgot that Camilli has signed contract with M-sport to 2017 as 2nd driver. So it's same way as replace already signed drivers in Hyundai or Citroen. And if Hyundai have money for that move, M-Sport doesn't have it. So it's probably be Ogier-Tanak-Camilli
- VW drivers have signed to VW in 2017 and have salary, in one hand they can "drive for free" in such team as M-sport, in other hand VW can say "You have a contract and you must sit tight whole 2017 and maybe do some rallys with SkodaR5". So future this trio also can be decided by VW top-management
- And I have strong premonition that's Ogier knows about this situation, and already have a deal with Malcolm with VW approval. Because Ogier at GB feels so relax, he know about rumors inside VW Team and having direct access to VW WRC Team heads as can told him all situation.
- And looks like JML know about this as well, but can't find a good choice for 2017 yet.

[focus206]

It's not their style to do this - and as the reports says, they won't be changing this policy. The 2017 WRCar will go to the VW museum most probably.

I don't care about their "style", it's not an excuse nor a god's law: it's their own (VW) fault if they have to pull out, having a new car in good stage of development would be a good reason to change their style and do something good for rallysport. But yes, if this is all true I agree that it won't likely happen, they will keep their idiotic and disrespectful "style".

[COD]

Do not forget that if VW pulls the plug and doesn't participate in 2017 WRC they still have their drivers under contract. Which means that they will get salary from VW (at least for 2017, maybe longer depending on their contractual terms). Which would mean that they can drive for anyone at very low price or even for free without affecting their income - which in turn means that missing budget wouldn't be a problem.

Also, for 2017 any team is a potential employer because everyone is in same situation eg. with new and unproven car. The only downside is that the three VW drivers have not tested any of those new cars (which they'll do before signing) and will not have same amount of testing than other drivers that have developed those cars. So in this sense, switch for 2017 season is a bit easier to make than normally.

So the big question for them is: which team provides not only best car for 2017 but also best total package for 2018 when they conceivably have to be paid for real.

VW can also say: " we pay, but you don't drive for anyone else. Or if you drive, we don't pay"

[Danny0405]

- VW drivers have signed to VW in 2017 and have salary, in one hand they can "drive for free" in such team as M-sport, in other hand VW can say "You have a contract and you must sit tight whole 2017 and maybe do some rallys with SkodaR5". So future this trio also can be decided by VW top-management.

You are right about the importance of the contract termination strategy of VW for their drivers. W

However, VW is at Risk on this subject if they adopt a stringent strategy.
They have no more to play in the WRC first and, on the other hand, let imagine the négative impact on VW's image if they refuse to free a 4x World Champion driver, a 3x Vice-Champion driver + Mikkelsen, without anything to do. Yet this fast withdrawal will have some négative impact but minimized by the fact that nobody Will be fired. But if they make the mistake of retaining drivers, they Will have no confidence at all from drivers of any championship for the next decade, something which would be very problematic if they decide to return to the motorsport in the future. And it would be a nightmare for the image of the brand, destroying the job done during the last 4 years.

I think a gentleman agreement is needed for both drivers and VW (something such as VW pay only one of the two years remaining). In addition to that, drivers may have clauses about the issue of VW withdrawal in their contract.

[Andre Oliveira]

Some remarks:
- You all put Ogier to M-Sport with Tanak alongside, but you forgot that Camilli has signed contract with M-sport to 2017 as 2nd driver. So it's same way as replace already signed drivers in Hyundai or Citroen. And if Hyundai have money for that move, M-Sport doesn't have it. So it's probably be Ogier-Tanak-Camilli
- VW drivers have signed to VW in 2017 and have salary, in one hand they can "drive for free" in such team as M-sport, in other hand VW can say "You have a contract and you must sit tight whole 2017 and maybe do some rallys with SkodaR5". So future this trio also can be decided by VW top-management
- And I have strong premonition that's Ogier knows about this situation, and already have a deal with Malcolm with VW approval. Because Ogier at GB feels so relax, he know about rumors inside VW Team and having direct access to VW WRC Team heads as can told him all situation.
- And looks like JML know about this as well, but can't find a good choice for 2017 yet.

1. FFSA M-Sport relation are betten than ever ;) That trio would be enough to M-Sport.
2. Contracts have WRC car clause i presume, so, they can break it.
3. Many rumours about that yes :)
4. Latvala in Toyota are written in the stars since the begin of TMR WRC scene.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Even if he didnt know for definite Ogier is way too smart and too big in the sport to be taken by surprise by this news.

I think he knew and thats why he was so keen to ensure the Manufacturers title in GB before the news broke.

M-Sport is my bet for him.

[Simmi]

- VW drivers have signed to VW in 2017 and have salary, in one hand they can "drive for free" in such team as M-sport, in other hand VW can say "You have a contract and you must sit tight whole 2017 and maybe do some rallys with SkodaR5". So future this trio also can be decided by VW top-management.

Like Andre says, this is the reason get-out clauses were invented for contracts.

[GigiGalliNo1]

On one note: think about this realistically.

Ford coming back and supporting M-Sport.

Ford have their badge on the front and back, stickers on the side and logo on the TV. Everyone knows it's a Fiesta. A Ford model.

What difference to the manufacturer will it make if they invest back with M Wilson and M-Sport?

Yes they could, emphasis on could win the Championship and Fords name would be up there again... but realistically is it worth it?

I'm not baging the sport or team or process of having the car company back but think about it.

[RS]

On one note: think about this realistically.

Ford coming back and supporting M-Sport.

Ford have their badge on the front and back, stickers on the side and logo on the TV. Everyone knows it's a Fiesta. A Ford model.

What difference to the manufacturer will it make if they invest back with M Wilson and M-Sport?

Yes they could, emphasis on could win the Championship and Fords name would be up there again... but realistically is it worth it?

I'm not baging the sport or team or process of having the car company back but think about it.

Understand what you're saying but if Ford were to offer some financial support then maybe Malcolm could afford Ogier instead of Ostberg..

[Jack4688`]

If I remember correctly from a few pages back it seems like the other manufacturers would need to agree to allow dispensation for a car to be homologated without the required production numbers yet. How open to that notion do we think Citroen and Hyundai would be if M-Sport were the ones who managed to sign Ogier?

I'm not suggesting they'd do that just to be petty and use a technicality to try an eliminate one source of competition for next year, but it'd be a pretty bitter pill to swallow to say to M-Sport, "Yes of course you can run that car before you produced the number of cars we went to the bother of making. Oh Sebastien will be driving it? That's lovely news, sport is the winner here today."

Or is it simply a function of the FIA to allow homologation if some part of the requirement has not been met?

[WUff1]

If they were planning to return in 2018, which is what I had heard, they could accelerate their comeback with this news to get Ogier. Or maybe they have already decided to return in 2017 ;)?
Remember everything is nearly in place with Msport anyway, who have tested and developed the car with a lot of technical assistance from Ford.

They just need the financial clout that a huge global manufacturer would bring to land Seb. He is a gamechanger for these teams, in that he is as close as you can get to guaranteed success in the WRC. Every team including Citroen and Hyundai should be trying to attract Seb by doing whatever it takes.....

We shouldn´t forget also Red Bull could sponsor another team now, as for instance M-Sport ;)

[AL14]

Worse silly season from years.

Anyway. I guess I spoke to early back then :D

[Simmi]

One side of this that isn't being talked about so much is the impact that losing VW sponsorship will have on events - namely Sweden, Rally Legend etc.

One column here - potentially quite worrying for Sweden to lose what is effectively a title sponsor at late notice - http://www.vf.se/sport/bilsport/det-kan-fa-odesdigra-konsekvenser-svenska-rallyt%E2%80%9D

Watching this Colin Clark vid also helps give an appreciation of all the things VW were doing behind the scenes for the good of the sport - https://www.facebook.com/voiceofrally/videos/659461530883180/

[GigiGalliNo1]

News and Rumors:

VF.se report that VW hold the title sponsorship of Rally Sweden for 2017. If they do pull out of the WRC, what leads to Rally Sweden? Rally Sweden CEO isn't commenting on Rumors at the moment so we will also wait and see if Rally Sweden goes ahead... unless they do have funds...

[AL14]

How about VW enegineers? Do you think they will not be allowed to go elsewere?

[Rallyper]

So VW: s pull out threatening whole WRC business for 2017? What on earth have they done those COB: s.

[leighton323]

I'm just going to wait for the official confirmation.. I'm not a big fan of the "my sources told me"

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

[Simmi]

Motorsport News today has some quite big silly season news - albeit the information was gathered before the VW news broke. How much of this will remain true in the coming days/weeks will be fascinating.

Big story - Elfyn Evans is expected to be confirmed at Dmack in the WRC later this month. Malcolm Wilson confirmed they are working on a deal with Dick Cormack for him to do the full championship - back with Dan Barritt. Aside from the VW issue, they are trying to see whether the FIA Sporting Regs will allow Elfyn to score points for M-Sport if he runs Dmack and the other drivers are on Michelin.

Obviously this could all now be blown to smithereens now by the VW news - but let the record show the deal IS/WAS almost done. No mention of a second Dmack car in the piece for what it's worth.


Again MN say Tanak will be confirmed at M-Sport and that he turned down Hyundai. It also says Toyota are (were) poised to announce Lappi and Suninen next month. First time I've seen anything that concrete written about Suninen.

Mads is expected to return to Adapta and run a '17 car as soon as one is available, hopefully by Sweden.

[EstWRC]

it all makes sense but like you say, how much of it stays the same now after VW are leaving?

[AL14]

it all makes sense but like you say, how much of it stays the same now after VW are leaving?

Do you know why Tanak refused Hyundai proposal?

[HarriK]

How about VW enegineers? Do you think they will not be allowed to go elsewere?

I heard that main desing and mechanical engineers have left the building at start of this summer. Same time as Capito.

[EstWRC]

Do you know why Tanak refused Hyundai proposal?

Yes but im not allowed to say. i must say i didnt believe it first and i was even like angry and dissapointed when i heard he chose M-sport but in the end i think it was the right decision.

[SVrally]

I'm waiting for the official VW press release, then we can talk about everything. ;)

[AL14]

Yes but im not allowed to say. i must say i didnt believe it first and i was even like angry and dissapointed when i heard he chose M-sport but in the end i think it was the right decision.

Obviously he knows better than us what is the best decision and he seems to me he is a clever guy. But me too I'm a bit surprised. Maybe M-Sport has assured him a longer contract or maybe they have made a very good job on the 2017 car... Let's see.

[AL14]

I'm waiting for the official VW press release, then we can talk about everything. ;)

Beware to say such things!

[dimviii]

any news at this article from our French speaking mates?
https://www.pressreader.com/

[turves]

Obviously he knows better than us what is the best decision and he seems to me he is a clever guy. But me too I'm a bit surprised. Maybe M-Sport has assured him a longer contract or maybe they have made a very good job on the 2017 car... Let's see.

Maybe its to do with rumours of Ford return?

[AL14]

Maybe its to do with rumours of Ford return?

Why not?

EstWRC. I wanna play a game with you. You don't want to tell us why Tanak refused? Really?

http://media.comicbook.com/2016/07/saw-190205.jpg

[FAlonso]

Official Press Release from VW:

https://www.volkswagen-media-services.com/en/detailpage/-/detail/Volkswagen-realigns-motorsport-programme/view/4159083/7a5bbec13158edd433c6630f5ac445da?p_p_auth=ublbR7q7

Here it is...

[Allez Andruet]

http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ralli/art-2000001944436.html

Mäkinen's comments (or actually non-comments) regarding the VW situation. Tommi doesn't want to speculate as everything's still unconfirmed.

The reporter asks Tommi however, that IF such trio of drivers would suddenly become available, how would Toyota react? Tommi answers: it's hard to imagine it would have any impact on us. We've already planned pretty much eveything. But you never know how things evolve.

Later in the article Mäkinen reveals that "third car" is just about to be sent over to Spain and that the team will do massive amount of testing in Spain and France during the coming weeks.

[FAlonso]

..."will develop a new Polo according to R5 regulations."

Bad news for Skoda?

[andyone]

Yes but im not allowed to say. i must say i didnt believe it first and i was even like angry and dissapointed when i heard he chose M-sport but in the end i think it was the right decision.
Perfect reaction many loose when they shift teams. He is used to the Ford if he shifts it might end up like Neville wasting time learning the new car

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk

[dodge33cymru]

..."will develop a new Polo according to R5 regulations."

Bad news for Skoda?
I doubt it, VAG doesn't usually mind its brands competing, especially in customer competition.

TCR has VW and Audi already, Porsche and Audi were in WEC and will be both in GT4 and Porsche, Bentley, Audi and Lamborghini compete together in GT3.

Good news that they are keeping their staff on, although that further reinforces that this is merely saving public face and nothing to do with money.

[GigiGalliNo1]

It's official. Bye bye VW

[FAlonso]

"There is a guarantee of employment for the Volkswagen Motorsport employees."

At least there's this. But a great shame overall.

[Simmi]

So there is scope for VW to retain at least one driver if they wanted to be primary tester on the R5 car. Same as Abbring has done for Hyundai.

Only thing is that will not satisfy either of the current 3 drivers.

[leighton323]

I can't even imagine what is going through the heads of the three VW drivers right now. Especially Ogier

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

[andyone]

Thehttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161102/bb7915f5d8b9b50b11e1c1de6fa74689.jpg

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk

[Arwel Davies]

I guess now the fun starts with the drivers market. Im sure the legalities of their existing contracts will be cleared up pretty swiftly and they will be free to drive for a new team. Lots of talk of Ogier to M-sport, which would be a fantastic move, maybe more so for M-sport but the new Fiesta does look impressive speed wise. Jari Matti almost looks like a certain shoe in for Toyota given the ties which just leave Mikkelsen. Very interesting times ahead.

[FAlonso]

Ogier:
https://twitter.com/sebogier/status/793778817055744000

"I feel so sorry for my fantastic team-We had 4 outstanding years!
Thanks for their passion&support!
Don't worry about me,we'll see us again."

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Sébastien Ogier ‏@SebOgier 5m5 minutes ago
I feel so sorry for my fantastic team-We had 4 outstanding years!
Thanks for their passion & support!
Don't worry about me,we'll see us again.

He's not quitting ! :)

DMACK Tyres ‏@DMACK_Tyres 28s28 seconds ago
. @SebOgier I hope we do see you again soon!

[Arwel Davies]

And it sounds like he has something up his sleeve already. He doesn't hang about does he.

[Mirek]

Good news that they are keeping their staff on, although that further reinforces that this is merely saving public face and nothing to do with money.

It's a big difference to run WRC program and to sell R5 cars which can be rather easily developed on the basis of existing Fabia R5. The later can be a profitable activity.

[TWRC]

So there is scope for VW to retain at least one driver if they wanted to be primary tester on the R5 car. Same as Abbring has done for Hyundai.

Only thing is that will not satisfy either of the current 3 drivers.
VW has Depping as test driver, but I think they can get others who developed the Fabia R5 too (Loix, Baumschlager, etc.) for much less money than keeping either of the three around.

[FAlonso]

@AMikkelsenRally: https://twitter.com/AMikkelsenRally/status/793790469033627648?s=09

[Fast Eddie WRC]

WRC.com finally http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/october-2016/vw-withdraws/page/4046--12-12-.html

[N.O.T]

Did not expect that, stupid decision by the VW management, if the Germans became unreliable this world is going down the drain.

But despite losing the best manufacturer next year is going to be fantastic and on a more equal playing field. And it might push some nobodies like ostberg back into oblivion where they belong.

[bassist]

Did not expect that, stupid decision by the VW management, if the Germans became unreliable this world is going down the drain.

But despite losing the best manufacturer next year is going to be fantastic and on a more equal playing field. And it might push some nobodies like ostberg back into oblivion where they belong.

Great to see NOT- you do have some common sense!

[N.O.T]

Great to see NOT- you do have some common sense!

I constitute of 95% common sense and 5% pure awesomeness, everyone knows that.

[MikeD]

If Ogier does move to M-Sport/Ford, it would almost equal when Schumacher took on the Ferrari challenge in 1996. Even though the Ogier+Citroën partnership would be the logic one, I somehow don't see that one happening. And no way is he going to the failure-waiting-to-happen finnish nationalistic Toyota crap team. He's not stupid!

[RS]

So VW can gain from Skoda's R5 knowledge like when they borrowed the Fabia S2000 to develop the Polo WRC and in return VW can share their early work on the Polo WRC '17 if Skoda want to have another go at the big league..

It would be nice.. Skoda can afford it.

[Mirek]

So VW can gain from Skoda's R5 knowledge like when they borrowed the Fabia S2000 to develop the Polo WRC and in return VW can share their early work on the Polo WRC '17 if Skoda want to have another go at the big league..

It would be nice.. Skoda can afford it.

I don't think that it's about what they want.

[BigWorm]

What a waste is all that I feel.

For the driver situation, Citroën and Hyundai are already filled as far as I know, surely meaning they would have to release their drivers with paying their salary? That wouldn't be cheap for the teams. I don't think drivers with contracts would resign on mutual consent.

[dimviii]

French manufacturer Citroën has already positioned to eventually accommodate Ogier, who was fired by the brand in the end rafters 2011. "If the driver who has won the last four championships will be found on the market we should enter into discussions with him "and said Yves Matton, Citroën Racing director in the columns of L'Equipe on Wednesday morning, before the official announcement of the withdrawal of VW.

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rallye/Actualites/Apres-l-annonce-du-retrait-de-vw-ca-va-bouger-sur-le-marche-des-transferts/745067

[Danny0405]

French manufacturer Citroën has already positioned to eventually accommodate Ogier, who was fired by the brand in the end rafters 2011. "If the driver who has won the last four championships will be found on the market we should enter into discussions with him "and said Yves Matton, Citroën Racing director in the columns of L'Equipe on Wednesday morning, before the official announcement of the withdrawal of VW.

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rallye/Actualites/Apres-l-annonce-du-retrait-de-vw-ca-va-bouger-sur-le-marche-des-transferts/745067

Not that simple. He also says (complete sentence in the newspaper version of L'Equipe): "However, some huge constraints will happen and could, in the end, lead to the impossibility to reach an agreement" (I Try to translate in the best way I am able to).
I think he has yet talked with Citroen's top management and PSA will not accept to pay much more money to take Ogier (PSA has announced three weeks ago that they will cut 2000 jobs).

[andyone]

And no way is he going to the failure-waiting-to-happen finnish nationalistic Toyota crap team. He's not stupid!
that is what was said with Hyundai. i will not under estimate any new Team. who have money as well.

[N.O.T]

that is what was said with Hyundai. i will not under estimate any new Team. who have money as well.

nobody said that about Hyundai.

wake up.

[GigiGalliNo1]

What's stopping Toyota of Toyota going "Ok, we have the money and can get it outside of the WRC Teams budget to get Ogier or JML".

You can't say this isn't a possibility!

[Francis44]

The thing is Ogier would never go for that, even if they bring the big bucks. I am sure he gets the same feeling as all fans about the Toyota project, which will 100% absolutely not be a winning formula so soon.

[N.O.T]

What's stopping Toyota of Toyota going "Ok, we have the money and can get it outside of the WRC Teams budget to get Ogier or JML".

You can't say this isn't a possibility!

the fact that they do not care and have an assortment of nobodies running the project with posters of rival manufacturers inside the teams garage.

[BigWorm]

Even though Mikkelsen has been better, Mäkinen would still rather have Latvala? Ok then

[EightGear]

Even though Mikkelsen has been better, Mäkinen would still rather have Latvala? Ok then

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161102/1417ccda59222f9f5ad5bddf80912939.jpg

[dodge33cymru]

It would be nice.. Skoda can afford it.

It all comes from the same pot.....

[RS]

Even though Mikkelsen has been better, Mäkinen would still rather have Latvala? Ok then

Mikkelsen isn't Finnish enough.

[macebig]

And his manager is not named Timo Jouhki...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

that is what was said with Hyundai. i will not under estimate any new Team. who have money as well.

And were VW a dead-cert Championship winner when Ogier went there ? It's easy with hindsight but at the time no-one knew...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Even though Mikkelsen has been better, Mäkinen would still rather have Latvala? Ok then

Latvala maybe be the better for car development plus his huge WRC experience.

[BigWorm]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161102/1417ccda59222f9f5ad5bddf80912939.jpg

Mäkinen's English is horrible, maybe there would be communication problems with Andreas

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Anyone also think that Malcolm Wilson had been so coy and reluctant to confirm his drivers for 2017 as he had info that VW could leave ? It appeared so obvious for months that it would be Tanak and Camilli, but Wilson just would not confirm..

[macebig]

Sidenote:Wilson is team manager and the manufacturer of the Bentley Continental GT3(which of course is funded by VAG).They may have told him some words on their 2017 plans or he is smart enough to understand the climate around VAG Motorsport programs.

[cali]

Mäkinen's English is horrible, maybe there would be communication problems with Andreas
They would use swedish with Mikkelsen.

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

[macebig]

Weird that Makinen doesn't speak English well considering he worked with English teams for a decade(Ford-Boreham/Ralliart,Prodrive)...

[BigWorm]

Maybe DMACK is going to offer one planned car to make way for a 3rd driver in M-Sport? Still think Tänak and Camilli will be in the main team.

[EstWRC]

some finnish friends can translate this? http://www.iltalehti.fi/ralli/2016110222555604_ri.shtml


as far as i understand from there the situation is pretty bad regarding available seats.

[Simmi]

Anyone also think that Malcolm Wilson had been so coy and reluctant to confirm his drivers for 2017 as he had info that VW could leave ? It appeared so obvious for months that it would be Tanak and Camilli, but Wilson just would not confirm..

I highly doubt he knew this was coming. If VW Motorsport employees didn't know I'm not sure how Malcolm would. I genuinely don't think this became a reality until the US settlement was sorted.

[dimviii]

this is the guy who interviews wrc drivers at stage ends.
Still wondering why sport is in such a low level?


Sébastien Ogier ‏@SebOgier ·

I feel so sorry for my fantastic team-We had 4 outstanding years!
Thanks for their passion&support!
Don't worry about me,we'll see us again



Colin Clark ‏@voiceofrally ·

@SebOgier you have been a wonderful Champ in VW colours and now you will go on to do what Loeb never did, win the title in different colours



sick dogs at all levels at this sport.

[Francis44]

^^ Loeb defense force is back on action ;) .

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwMyPPkUIAAJqjU.jpg

[dodge33cymru]

this is the guy who interviews wrc drivers at stage ends.
Still wondering why sport is in such a low level?


Sébastien Ogier ‏@SebOgier ·

I feel so sorry for my fantastic team-We had 4 outstanding years!
Thanks for their passion&support!
Don't worry about me,we'll see us again



Colin Clark ‏@voiceofrally ·

@SebOgier you have been a wonderful Champ in VW colours and now you will go on to do what Loeb never did, win the title in different colours



sick dogs at all levels at this sport.
I'm not sure what you're even getting at there, but Colin Clarke is a superb part of this sport and his enthusiasm and genuineness are a key part of it. I'd argue, in the world of WRC Promoter coverage on TV, he's one of the best and most passionate spokespeople this niche sport has left.

Unlike many people in his position across sport, he's not afraid to pick sides and call out the governing body, broadcasters and other parties when he disagrees with them and, most of the time, I agree with him (despite our political views seeming to differ wildly!).

So why shouldn't he message Ogier that he hopes to see him back next year? Whether you do or don't, it's good to see him being involved at every level, from broadcaster to fan.

[Mirek]

I'm not sure what you're even getting at there

That he was downplaying Loeb's achievements without a need to do so.

[Allez Andruet]

some finnish friends can translate this? http://www.iltalehti.fi/ralli/2016110222555604_ri.shtml

It's basically a Timo Jouhki interview:

- he says that timing of the announcement was the worst possible (well, that we already knew) as basically all contracts (for WRC teams) have already been signed or negotiated.

- according to Jouhki, Jari-Matti is "extremely disappointed" (I guess we knew that as well)

...but then the interesting points:

- he does not not believe (and if we keep in mind that it's Timo Jouhki speaking, there might be something else than pure belief behind it...) that Ogier would go to anywhere else than a "proven winning team, namely Citroen or equal to that". Jouhki's guess is, that if Ogier, for whatever reason, is unable to go to that kind of a team, he'll sit out 2017.

- Jouhki says that before anything can be done regarding Jari-Matti's situation, the legal work must be sorted out (contract with VW is still valid)

- when asked whether Toyota is an option for Jari-Matti, Jouhki just says that "it's hard to say if it's realistic or not" (whatever that means...)

- Jouhki also says (and this I don't believe one bit) that he "doesn't know" whether Tommi has made agreements with any other drivers than Hänninen.

[N.O.T]

this is the guy who interviews wrc drivers at stage ends.
Still wondering why sport is in such a low level?


Sébastien Ogier ‏@SebOgier ·

I feel so sorry for my fantastic team-We had 4 outstanding years!
Thanks for their passion&support!
Don't worry about me,we'll see us again



Colin Clark ‏@voiceofrally ·

@SebOgier you have been a wonderful Champ in VW colours and now you will go on to do what Loeb never did, win the title in different colours



sick dogs at all levels at this sport.

he is right but he should have written that Ogier was forced to change teams not doing it willingly, but we are talking about a scottish person in a pink scarf.

Loeb was the main reason Mcrae was forced to be the circus clown over at the USA when Loeb ridiculed him in the same car and made him look like a hand-less amateur, so you have to be compassionate for scottish people.

[Allez Andruet]

Weird that Makinen doesn't speak English well considering he worked with English teams for a decade(Ford-Boreham/Ralliart,Prodrive)...
I don't agree with this. Sure, he does speak English with a Finnish accent, but he's very capable of expressing himself in English.

[dodge33cymru]

That he was downplaying Loeb's achievements without a need to do so.
I don't think Mr Clark really needs defending from that, but even if so there's no need to stoop to call anyone a "sick dog".

[N.O.T]

I don't agree with this. Sure, he does speak English with a Finnish accent, but he's very capable of expressing himself in English.

No, his english are laughable.

[dodge33cymru]

I don't agree with this. Sure, he does speak English with a Finnish accent, but he's very capable of expressing himself in English.
I appreciate the translation of the article, thanks very much.

[Allez Andruet]

http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-9268788

Mäkinen confirms that Toyota's "intrested in all three available drivers" and that they've "already started to discuss internally, what could be done about it". This is maybe the most intresting part: Tommi says that "only Juho Hänninen's been confirmed" and due to that Toyota's "able to react" to the situation. Tommi also says (I think regarding the two other drivers) that "basically things have been agreed on" (which I take for being negotiated and agreed on, but probably not yet signed) but Toyota will now "rethink" all that.

[dimviii]

I don't think Mr Clark really needs defending from that, but even if so there's no need to stoop to call anyone a "sick dog".

yes he is.Read what Mirek wrote. Unacceptable,and tottaly stupid what he said.
Pitty that you didn't understand,and you thought that I don't want Ogier at wrc for 2017.

[EstWRC]

thanks for the translation..and in this latest Makinen piece, i also read out that everything should be decided in the next few days.

Latvala's situation isnt very good then at the moment.

[stefanvv]

yes he is.Read what Mirek wrote. Unacceptable,and tottaly stupid what he said.
Pitty that you didn't understand,and you thought that I don't want Ogier at wrc for 2017.

Calm down, he is journalist (quite good actually), need to make some sensations from time to time.

[dimviii]

Calm down, he is journalist (quite good actually), need to make some sensations from time to time.

iam not surprised you find him a ''good journalist''

[dodge33cymru]

yes he is.Read what Mirek wrote. Unacceptable,and tottaly stupid what he said.
Pitty that you didn't understand,and you thought that I don't want Ogier at wrc for 2017.
I did not think that at all; I understood what you meant, I just think there's no need for name calling in that way, especially not with someone who does a lot for our sport, that's all.

[stefanvv]

iam not surprised you find him a ''good journalist''

No idea what that means but nevermind. It is not me who posts his tweets here on the forum, think about that....

[dimviii]

No idea what that means but nevermind. It is not me who posts his tweets here on the forum, think about that....

I ve post also tweets from Mads,Capito,Latvala. Do I rate them also high?

[stefanvv]

I ve post also tweets from Mads,Capito,Latvala. Do I rate them also high?

Capito? Didn't know. Why You don't rate them high? Don't tell me, I know.

[smsgrafica]

I think an Ogier - Meeke team would be the best rivalry since Sainz - McRae at Subaru.

Please WRC God, make it happen!!!

[Allez Andruet]

Latvala's situation isnt very good then at the moment.

Especially, if Jouhki is telling the truth and not playing games in this article:

http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-9269172

Jouhki says that it will be "really hard" to find Jari-Matti a seat in WRC for 2017.

I don't know, that might ofcourse be the case, but somehow I just don't buy that. Yet atleast. Given the long history (and it goes way back to 1989-1990) there is between Jouhki and Mäkinen, it's just hard to believe that they wouldn't keep each other "aware" of what's going on.

[SubaruNorway]

They would use swedish with Mikkelsen.

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

His english is not bad but he's spent his life driving cars not speaking in front of people all his life like some of the other team bosses.
I don't think Tommi actually speaks Swedish.

[Simmi]

Especially, if Jouhki is telling the truth and not playing games in this article:

http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-9269172

Jouhki says that it will be "really hard" to find Jari-Matti a seat in WRC for 2017.

I don't know, that might ofcourse be the case, but somehow I just don't buy that. Yet atleast. Given the long history (and it goes way back to 1989-1990) there is between Jouhki and Mäkinen, it's just hard to believe that they wouldn't keep each other "aware" of what's going on.

If it's true that Lappi and Suninen were the chosen candidates at Toyota (reported in MN today) then that is a difficult situation for Jouhki. Does he sh*t on his future prospect to make way for a current (fading?) star. Or does he go with youth and ensure Suninen gets on the ladder. Same thing with EVEN who are trying to get Lappi a seat, and now have competition in the form of Mikkelsen.

[macebig]

Jouhki's first priority is to secure a lucrative buy-out of JML's VW contract.Making it look like its difficult to find a new drive will help him with the negotiations.I am confident JML already has an agreement in place with Toyota,but they are laying low to help Latvala snatch a good compensation from Volkswagen.

[Simmi]

Jouhki's first priority is to secure a lucrative buy-out of JML's VW contract.Making it look like its difficult to find a new drive will help him with the negotiations.

Not criticising. But can you explain this theory more? I don't understand.

[macebig]

Simple thing.Jouhki makes the situation look like Latvala can't find a drive for 2017.Then he can "blame" the late VW decision for that and pressurize the Germans into inflating Latvala's buy out paycheck.Managerial mind tricks,to put it simple.

[Allez Andruet]

If it's true that Lappi and Suninen were the chosen candidates at Toyota (reported in MN today) then that is a difficult situation for Jouhki. Does he sh*t on his future prospect to make way for a current (fading?) star. Or does he go with youth and ensure Suninen gets on the ladder. Same thing with EVEN who are trying to get Lappi a seat, and now have competition in the form of Mikkelsen.
http://www.mtv.fi/sport/ralli/uutinen/artikkeli/tommi-makinen-havittelee-ogieria-ja-latvalaa-mm-rallitiimiinsa/6148326
I hope Mäkinen has found time today to talk to the representatives of Ogier and Latvala somewhere in between giving interviews to the Finnish media :)

In this article, Mäkinen pretty clearly says that Hänninen is the only one who has a SIGNED contract and adds, that even though the two other contracts have also been "agreed on general level", "changes are possible".

[Simmi]

Simple thing.Jouhki makes the situation look like Latvala can't find a drive for 2017.Then he can "blame" the late VW decision for that and pressurize the Germans into inflating Latvala's buy out paycheck.Managerial mind tricks,to put it simple.

This seems like a bit of a stretch? Latvala will get paid by VW next year regardless - so what is this buy-out paycheck are you referencing? And how is it negotiable?

If anything it might be Latvala that has to buy his way out of his own contract. Although I doubt VW will demand their drivers sit on the couch for a year.

[macebig]

Come on.VW is breaching the contract and you say that JML has to pay them to release him?Not a chance.For the last time,Jouhki is trying to get the most money possible out of Volkswagen to terminate the relationship between his client and them.He is using every trick available to achieve this.

[Andre Oliveira]

Hashtag #OgierToMsport are growing a lot in twitter lol

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwRfleSXYAAHxnz.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwRfmX5W8AIChwP.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwSXsdfXYAAg6-a.jpg:small

[Essaj]

This seems like a bit of a stretch? Latvala will get paid by VW next year regardless - so what is this buy-out paycheck are you referencing? And how is it negotiable?

If anything it might be Latvala that has to buy his way out of his own contract. Although I doubt VW will demand their drivers sit on the couch for a year.

Ofcourse it's VW who has to pay, they just need to find an agreement how big of cut they need to give to their drivers and let them free for next year.
Why would they pay for people who do not work for them anymore, so for them it's better to buy out their contracts for low as possible and as a manager you want to get as much out of the team as you can.

[dimviii]

https://twitter.com/hashtag/OgierToMSport?src=hash

[stefanvv]

Ofcourse it's VW who has to pay, they just need to find an agreement how big of cut they need to give to their drivers and let them free for next year.
Why would they pay for people who do not work for them anymore, so for them it's better to buy out their contracts for low as possible and as a manager you want to get as much out of the team as you can.

Damage control is the word. They don't get anything, should lose less.

[Franky]

Ofcourse it's VW who has to pay, they just need to find an agreement how big of cut they need to give to their drivers and let them free for next year.
Why would they pay for people who do not work for them anymore, so for them it's better to buy out their contracts for low as possible and as a manager you want to get as much out of the team as you can.

I'd imagine that kind of stuff is already written in their contracts

[Simmi]

Ofcourse it's VW who has to pay, they just need to find an agreement how big of cut they need to give to their drivers and let them free for next year.
Why would they pay for people who do not work for them anymore, so for them it's better to buy out their contracts for low as possible and as a manager you want to get as much out of the team as you can.

General consensus is the drivers will get their 2017 wages paid by VW as they were under contract. That's pretty standard practice and VW still have plenty of money despite everything. All three VW drivers could effectively command two wages next year depending where they end up. So I'm still not really sure what settlement needs to be negotiated. Certainly Latvala only had a deal up until the end of 2017 and options for further seasons which obviously won't now be picked up.

[Essaj]

That's the thing, VW can just sit their drivers at home doing nothing while paying them big money. Or pay them less money so they would be free to do whatever. I know the money is not the issue for VW but why would they pay full salary to a driver who drives to a different car company?

[Simmi]

I know the money is not the issue for VW but why would they pay full salary to a driver who drives to a different car company?

Because they are contractually obliged to pay them.

[Essaj]

Because they are contractually obliged to pay them.

Of course they have to pay but they don't have to let them drive elsewhere. Don't just quote the last part of my post, read all of it. They have to get into some kind of a agreement or Ogier, Latvala and Mikkelsen will stay home doing nothing rally related for the duration of their contracts.

[GravelBen]

Because they are contractually obliged to pay them.

Have you read the contracts in detail then?

[bassist]

I think Jari has been one of the quickest drivers over the past 10 years or so.But he hasnt been to able to deliver when it mattered. He has been caught up in VW`s exit the same as Andreas and Seb, but i really dont think he deserves the attention being focussed on him in all of this. I hope that some of the young guns looking to show their talents in the WRC dont lose out because of it.

[RAS007]

I'm not sure what you're even getting at there, but Colin Clarke is a superb part of this sport and his enthusiasm and genuineness are a key part of it. I'd argue, in the world of WRC Promoter coverage on TV, he's one of the best and most passionate spokespeople this niche sport has left.

Unlike many people in his position across sport, he's not afraid to pick sides and call out the governing body, broadcasters and other parties when he disagrees with them and, most of the time, I agree with him (despite our political views seeming to differ wildly!).

So why shouldn't he message Ogier that he hopes to see him back next year? Whether you do or don't, it's good to see him being involved at every level, from broadcaster to fan.

What he's getting at is somebody said something negative about his leotarded hero, and he is sworn to defend the leotarded one until death.

[RAS007]

That he was downplaying Loeb's achievements without a need to do so.

Not downplaying, just pointing out the fact the Loeb drove for the same team for his entire career.

[N.O.T]

Not downplaying, just pointing out the fact the Loeb drove for the same team for his entire career.

and Ogier would do exactly the same if not for the withdrawal of VW.

[RAS007]

and Ogier would do exactly the same if not for the withdrawal of VW.

There's really no way to know that; either way, the reasons a driver switches teams, drives a different car aren't really important. Ogier will win in any car, probably. At least we'll get the chance to find out this time.

[N.O.T]

There's really no way to know that; either way, the reasons a driver switches teams, drives a different car aren't really important.

I agree with that, but when you compare two drivers the way the pink scarf guy did, you have to be a bit more careful if you do not want to sound like some inferiority complex nobody.

[RAS007]

I think Jari has been one of the quickest drivers over the past 10 years or so.But he hasnt been to able to deliver when it mattered. He has been caught up in VW`s exit the same as Andreas and Seb, but i really dont think he deserves the attention being focussed on him in all of this. I hope that some of the young guns looking to show their talents in the WRC dont lose out because of it.

Is Latvala the most talented driver never to win the title?

[N.O.T]

Is Latvala the most talented driver never to win the title?

No, there are many talented drivers that are no longer in the WRC and Latvala would share the same fate looooooong time ago but daddy was and is there for him.