Toyota announces WRC plans

[dimviii]

Wasn't it Škoda's first WRC start or Peugeot failed so hard too? I don't remember anymore :(

it was Peugeots 206 that didn't managed to start at frozen Monte morning, due to mapping error.

[Mirek]

That's a fair point but probably the info you got is the same we got: they’ve started a WRC team from almost scratch; their facilities aren’t state of the art but they’re good enough for the job; despite the remote location they’ve managed to attract experienced staff; they’ve designed and hugely tested a whole new WRC car in a very limited time; the car is ready and will be homologated without delay; they’ve got a balanced driver line up for their first season…honestly, anyone looking at this facts in a sensible and fair way will be puzzled to find all the wrong doings appointed by the eager critics of this Makinen/Toyota venture. To me they've already proved they're a serious WRC contender and I'm quite happy to see Toyota back in WRC alongside TMR. Best luck to them!

Just like VW. The point is that VW and Toyota are very much the same kind of animal on the car market. They are the two biggest giants in the arena and they have huge money available for achieving a real success. Nobody should expect anything else from them. They are not some underdogs but gigantic and rich corporations.

The story with VW showed to everybody that it is possible to come and destroy all the experienced and established teams if the team management is doing its work properly and can use the funding it has. Why shall anyone expect something else from Toyota?

[Mirek]

it was Peugeots 206 that didn't managed to start at frozen Monte morning, due to mapping error.

Thanks, so it was similar with Škoda few years earlier :)

[dimviii]

Thanks, so it was similar with Škoda few years earlier :)

didn't remember that! when?

[Mirek]

The very first start of Octavia WRC on Monte 99. Schwarz and Sibera both retired before SS1 due to technical problems in the cold weather.

[Rally Power]

Just like VW. The point is that VW and Toyota are very much the same kind of animal on the car market. They are the two biggest giants in the arena and they have huge money available for achieving a real success. Nobody should expect anything else from them. They are not some underdogs but gigantic and rich corporations.
The story with VW showed to everybody that it is possible to come and destroy all the experienced and established teams if the team management is doing its work properly and can use the funding it has. Why shall anyone expect something else from Toyota?

I agree with you. VW set new standards in WRC. They’ve spent millions creating a fabulous in house team that no one could compete. But now they´re leaving and besides their dominant mark and the broken records in what way can we say they’ve help to develop the sport?

Probably in no other way: one can still remember them pushing the promoter to adopt new rules totally disrespectful to WRC heritage and showing no interest about privateer teams and drivers needs, in international or national rally series; their only target was to become a steamroll in WRC.

Should we desire a similar attitude from Toyota? I don’t. Despite all the troubles and misfortunes they can came by choosing a private partner, I really hope Toyota and TMR will be a top contender in WRC and, specially, will be able to provide a wide range of rally cars to private customers around the world, making a serious contribution to the sport development. Just like Ford and MSport have been doing for a long time.

[focus206]

The very first start of Octavia WRC on Monte 99. Schwarz and Sibera both retired before SS1 due to technical problems in the cold weather.

Skoda at Monte '99 debut, Peugeot at Monte '00 (first Monte for the 206, not debut of the car)

[Gregor-y]

The story with VW showed to everybody that it is possible to come and destroy all the experienced and established teams if the team management is doing its work properly and can use the funding it has. Why shall anyone expect something else from Toyota?
Toyota's F1 program comes to mind. Their motorsports efforts have had plenty of money but not much success since the 90s. Sure it could be successful, and VW shows it can be done. Against that is Toyota's track record (or lack thereof). ;)

[Zeakiwi]

Obviously Ogier thinks the Fiesta 2017 wrc is better than the Toyota wrc at the moment.

[electroliquid]

Obviously Ogier thinks the Fiesta 2017 wrc is better than the Toyota wrc at the moment.

Or maybe suits his driving style better

[Rallyper]

Obviously Ogier thinks the Fiesta 2017 wrc is better than the Toyota wrc at the moment.

We don´t know what his assessments were at that time. It´s about more than handling of the car.

[Mirek]

I agree with you. VW set new standards in WRC. They’ve spent millions creating a fabulous in house team that no one could compete. But now they´re leaving and besides their dominant mark and the broken records in what way can we say they’ve help to develop the sport?

Probably in no other way: one can still remember them pushing the promoter to adopt new rules totally disrespectful to WRC heritage and showing no interest about privateer teams and drivers needs, in international or national rally series; their only target was to become a steamroll in WRC.

Should we desire a similar attitude from Toyota? I don’t. Despite all the troubles and misfortunes they can came by choosing a private partner, I really hope Toyota and TMR will be a top contender in WRC and, specially, will be able to provide a wide range of rally cars to private customers around the world, making a serious contribution to the sport development. Just like Ford and MSport have been doing for a long time.

Yes, VW used its power to make the WRC friendly for itself and while we may not like it it's another achievement it managed.

My point was that Toyota's effort shall and will be compared with VW because Toyota is in very similar position like VW.

While it's true that Mäkinen built a whole new team and the car in very short time it's not something what Toyota shall be proud of or any sort of excuse. Toyota has enough resources, had enough time (they started the WRC project long before it was given to Mäkinen) and must have only winning ambitions as anything else makes no sense.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Toyota Europe Verified account
‏@toyota_europe

The #YarisWRC will have a direct impact on expanding the Yaris line-up with a performance-oriented version.

[maciotacio]

Expanding in Finland? Cause all the drivers are Finnish. Just marketing wise it would be nice to have some national variety ;)

BTW has anyone seen a standing start of that beauty? Till now, I haven't noticed it. What are they hiding?

[Rally Power]

My point was that Toyota's effort shall and will be compared with VW because Toyota is in very similar position like VW.

Nope, Toyota will be compared to Hyundai, Citroen or Ford, their future competitors, not with VW or any other past WRC manu.

[itix]

Yes, but Tommi said also that all the contracts are "flexiple".

Completely off topic but...
This reminds me of the best piece of finnish english ever.

Latvala leaned too much on the snowbank in sweden 2015 and went through it... it took the the fans about 8 minutes to get him back up on the road and when, at the stop control, asked why he was late, he replied

"I came too fast in the corner and I ended up in some big tits" (ditch)

[itix]

Let´s see how Monte goes...

Hope everyone remembers who Hyundais 1st Monte went...

I do. I was there and I was even staying in the same place as the some of the Hyundai team. Not so happy faces ;)

Anyway, regarding Toyota... they are treating this as a learning year. Like the approach or not (after all most winning cars came out ready from the very beginning) but it is the path they chose. The future will tell the rest!

Also, let's remember that TMG, previously TTE was started by one guy in his workshop in a half amateur way.

I am not defending Tommi... I too find it a strange way of achieving success and I have raised my eyebrows more than once. On the other hand I am not going to say anything definitive until this venture has had time to set out what it meant to do (which from the very start was said to be a multi year program).

[Marcco]

Yes, VW used its power to make the WRC friendly for itself and while we may not like it it's another achievement it managed.

My point was that Toyota's effort shall and will be compared with VW because Toyota is in very similar position like VW.

While it's true that Mäkinen built a whole new team and the car in very short time it's not something what Toyota shall be proud of or any sort of excuse. Toyota has enough resources, had enough time (they started the WRC project long before it was given to Mäkinen) and must have only winning ambitions as anything else makes no sense.

Yes, Toyota can be compared to VW on car market, but what makes you think Toyota gives this program same amount of money as VW did?
For me it looks more like a venture from Toyota, it seems they give some (just enough) money for private team to do the job and then they will see how it goes. If all goes well - they'll continue, if not (or something else changes) - they can stop easily.
Look at VW - huge amount of money, facilities etc etc etc... and boom it's over. Toyota's approach looks more cautious.

[liposh]

IMHO People from Toyota Japan would like to copy the VW project, make it very professional, put enormous amount of money there and succeed from the very beginning, but they don´t have luck in choice of coworkers so it looks like few villagers from Finnish woods trying to build the WRC car in small garage. I would be happy if Tommi M. proves me wrong.

On the other hand I can see clearly there is enormous improvement in Yaris WRC speed during last weeks. The engine is very strong from the beginning and the suspension set-up is better and better everyday.

[OldF]

Completely off topic but...
This reminds me of the best piece of finnish english ever.

Latvala leaned too much on the snowbank in sweden 2015 and went through it... it took the the fans about 8 minutes to get him back up on the road and when, at the stop control, asked why he was late, he replied

"I came too fast in the corner and I ended up in some big tits" (ditch)

But that’s where he ended up in the end.:)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Czj1-w0XAAAMYeW.jpg

[dimviii]

RallySport Mag ‏@RallySportMag

Jarmo Lehtinen told @RallyHolmes that @TGR_WRC has a 5-year commitment to @OfficialWRC. https://issuu.com/hi-techmedia/docs/rallysport_magazine_december_2016/64*…


BILLIOT Jérémie ‏@planetemarcus 5h
5 hours ago

BILLIOT Jérémie Retweeted RallySport Mag
#WRC JML & Hanninen deal one year with option for Toyota

[N.O.T]

rallysport mag ‏@rallysportmag

jarmo lehtinen told @rallyholmes that @tgr_wrc has a 5-year commitment to @officialwrc. https://issuu.com/hi-techmedia/docs/rallysport_magazine_december_2016/64*…


billiot jérémie ‏@planetemarcus 5h
5 hours ago

billiot jérémie retweeted rallysport mag
#wrc jml & hanninen deal one year with option for toyota

lol

[Mirek]

Yes, Toyota can be compared to VW on car market, but what makes you think Toyota gives this program same amount of money as VW did?
For me it looks more like a venture from Toyota, it seems they give some (just enough) money for private team to do the job and then they will see how it goes. If all goes well - they'll continue, if not (or something else changes) - they can stop easily.
Look at VW - huge amount of money, facilities etc etc etc... and boom it's over. Toyota's approach looks more cautious.

I have never said Toyota put same money into WRC as VW did. I said Toyota had enough resources to do so. What I wanted to say is that there was no sense at all to play with brand reputation by running half-way projects.

I certainly hope they are competitive but I don't agree at all with inventing excuses already before first event.

[danon]

But that’s where he ended up in the end.:)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Czj1-w0XAAAMYeW.jpg

Happy end!

[Rally Power]

I have never said Toyota put same money into WRC as VW did. I said Toyota had enough resources to do so. What I wanted to say is that there was no sense at all to play with brand reputation by running half-way projects.
I certainly hope they are competitive but I don't agree at all with inventing excuses already before first event.

No one was inventing excuses mate. Just reporting facts to make clear that most of the criticism is unfair.

Btw, having Toyota LM/WEC budget in mind (different sources mention 50% less than Audi), Marcco point makes a lot of sense. We've also to remember that Toyota is involved in much more motorsport programes than VW (Asia, USA, South Africa,...). Spending a bit less on each one but keeping all of them running seems to be a valid option.

[Mirek]

The sport is about competition and marketing. From sporting point of view the target of every top sportsman is to be the best. From marketing point of view the target is to present the brand as the best, i.e. both points of view share the same goal. IMHO for such a company like Toyota the only sensible way is to commit fully or not at all. Anything half way is pure waste of money for own damage.

[stefanvv]

Its funny now the only non-manufacturer could be 'the best'.

[danon]

https://s5.postimg.org/y0rn0gyo7/The_Samurai.jpg

[er88]

I don't think it's right to insinuate that Toyota aren't fully committed, I mean they've wasted a lot of resources that TMG used by testing a Yaris for 2-3yrs - only to abandon. Plus they offered Ogier 10-12m a year to drive for them, so they are serious. It just seems that Akia Toyoda has maybe gambled and put a hell of a lot faith in Makinen. They've clearly become good friends over the last few years.

But then again, it's great that a major boss at a company like Toyota is so enthusiastic about the WRC. They'll make/ have made mistakes but it won't be because they aren't passionate about the sport - like BMW were when they left Prodrive hanging...

Hopefully it works out well for the team and the WRC, but it's understandable that everyone has some doubts...

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-0/p640x640/15585161_10154867196494973_6368825573581243772_o.j pg?oh=ac4a0f72c9c09a14361ad304021fa74e&oe=58F7B5D0

[A FONDO]

Rally simulators on the left, pirated versions of Windows on the right :D

[RallySport Mag]

Latest Toyota update from Martin Holmes:

31-year old Jari-Matti Latvala arrived at the Toyota Yazoo Racing WRC team launch in his home country of Finland straight from testing in the south of France, full of enthusiasm for the latest step in his career.

http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/wrc/11053-jari-matti-latvala-talks-about-toyota-gazoo-racing-team-yaris-2017-wrc

[RallySport Mag]

UPDATED: Toyota Gazoo Racing Engineer Tom Fowler chats to Martin Holmes about the development of the 2017 Yaris WRC.

Read the full article in the December issue of the RallySport Magazine.

https://issuu.com/hi-techmedia/docs/rallysport_magazine_december_2016/66

[Jack4688`]

Completely off topic but...
This reminds me of the best piece of finnish english ever.

Latvala leaned too much on the snowbank in sweden 2015 and went through it... it took the the fans about 8 minutes to get him back up on the road and when, at the stop control, asked why he was late, he replied

"I came too fast in the corner and I ended up in some big tits" (ditch)

Please tell me this clip is on youtube!

[Barreis]

Why don't they hire him at toyota?! Makinen and he would be ideal pair... :D
http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127528

[Franky]

Why don't they hire him at toyota?! Makinen and he would be ideal pair... :D
http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127528

I hope he didn't tell the people at McLaren the great idea he has to spice up the racing by doing a force restart 3 laps before the race end.

[itix]

Please tell me this clip is on youtube!
Dunno. I don't have good Internet where I am so I can't check for you unfortunately.

[Sulland]

For me it will be interesting to see how big the time difference btw the two Yaris cars will be in MC and Sweden. If too big maybe they see they need a better number two.

[COD]

For me it will be interesting to see how big the time difference btw the two Yaris cars will be in MC and Sweden. If too big maybe they see they need a better number two.

They can first give the second car to Lappi, if that is the case...

[Andre Oliveira]

Toyota have some FIA limitation to test homologated car? They are testing the old shape car....

[pantealex]

Toyota have some FIA limitation to test homologated car? They are testing the old shape car....

Car is not homologated, yet.
They have never tested old shape car... They had that new model months ago...
Car at Monte start will look different than the one in Press day. Homologation papers have photos of actual look, there is no rule which says Expo cars must look like real ones.

[danon]

https://scontent.fsof2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/15591208_1157577394339036_6201249456917380514_o.jp g?oh=7b395f46942cfb8ec030d6c115d4de78&oe=58E61FDA

[Teardrop]

Car is not homologated, yet.
They have never tested old shape car... They had that new model months ago...
Car at Monte start will look different than the one in Press day. Homologation papers have photos of actual look, there is no rule which says Expo cars must look like real ones.
That does not make any sense. So why did they present a car with a different back?
Btw, the two cars that are now in testing are also different from each other on the doors.
It's all very confusing...3 cars with different designs at the end of december?! (1-the presentation car; 2-car used in tarmac testing; 3-car used in the gravel/snow testing)
What is the car that will be used in the championship?!

[pucky54]

...What is the car that will be used in the championship?!

...none of those! ;)

[pantealex]

There is now 140 people working for TGRWRC, most of them in Puuppola (some in Estonia and Japan, few in other countries)

In "farm" now over 20 Japanese workers.

just for this day 3 full trucks with all kind of parts arrived (about 400 packets)

Lappi has only driven car once (at Tikkakoski airport some "sensor" tests)
Suninen did totally 20 test days but his contract with TMG (and TGR also) is over now.

[Andre Oliveira]

Any news about registration pantealex? Still Estonian plates?

[pantealex]

Any news about registration pantealex? Still Estonian plates?

Probably yes. No plates on WRC cars yet, but recce cars have Estonian plates.

[Rally Hokkaido]

As MC Shakedown has started, can I just say, "I told you so!" (6.5 years and 2050 posts ago)?........I`ll just get my coat.

[janvanvurpa]

As MC Shakedown has started, can I just say, "I told you so!" (6.5 years and 2050 posts ago)?........I`ll just get my coat.


But in those 6 1/2 years and 2050 posts WE FORGOT what you told us!!

Better tell us again..I promise I'll try harder to remember.

[Franky]

But in those 6 1/2 years and 2050 posts WE FORGOT what you told us!!

Better tell us again..I promise I'll try harder to remember.

Guess he is referring to the very first post in this very long thread.

[smsgrafica]

But in those 6 1/2 years and 2050 posts WE FORGOT what you told us!!

Better tell us again..I promise I'll try harder to remember.

Just read the first post of this thread. ;)

[Rallyper]

Thank god !!! hope they aim for full factory support (second post in this thread)

Which they actually did. Right NOT? Even you had positive thought back then!

[kirungi okwogera]

N.O.T had not yet grown into Ebenezer Scrooge back in 2010

[pantealex]

Tommi explaining those homologation problems (written story in finnish)

http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-9413001?origin=rss

My written english is so bad that I can´t translate it but I know that someone can.

[A FONDO]

The idle sound is monstrous https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aydhBP9qYE

[cali]

Very positively surprised about Toyota's speed so far, they have done good job considering the time schedule they had.

[Sulland]

Tommi on homologation process

https://translate.google.no/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&u=http%3A//yle.fi/urheilu/3-9413001%3Forigin%3Drss

[Sulland]

Congratulations to Toyota Gazoo and Tommi with getting two cars through to the finish, and one on the podium in their first rally with the Yaris!

must be a huge boost for the team!

Sweden will be the next and maybe a better measurement on where they are, looking forward to that!

[jparker]

Congratulations to Toyota Gazoo and Tommi with getting two cars through to the finish, and one on the podium in their first rally with the Yaris!

must be a huge boost for the team!

Sweden will be the next and maybe a better measurement on where they are, looking forward to that!

I second that.
Congratulations to whole team.

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

I wonder if we'll see Arris liveried Yaris..? :p

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

[greencroft]

Can anyone throw any light on the Microsoft sponsorship deal for the Yaris WRC? I can work out why the likes of Castrol, Pirelli or even Red Bull or any of the car manufacturers would want to be seen on WRC cars but can't get the synergy for Microsoft. Why would they feel exposure in the WRC would help them as a global software/tech company? Interested to hear any views or insights to this.

[stefanvv]

Can anyone throw any light on the Microsoft sponsorship deal for the Yaris WRC? I can work out why the likes of Castrol, Pirelli or even Red Bull or any of the car manufacturers would want to be seen on WRC cars but can't get the synergy for Microsoft. Why would they feel exposure in the WRC would help them as a global software/tech company? Interested to hear any views or insights to this.

I believe it is some kind of "joint-venture" (hope it is the right word), Microsoft provides all the software services to TMR, in return they gather data for car automation industry. Hope that makes some sence.

[Rally Hokkaido]

Speaking of joint ventures, this may help explain the sponsorship deal more http://fortune.com/2016/04/04/toyota-microsoft-data/

[A FONDO]

Can anyone throw any light on the Microsoft sponsorship deal for the Yaris WRC? I can work out why the likes of Castrol, Pirelli or even Red Bull or any of the car manufacturers would want to be seen on WRC cars but can't get the synergy for Microsoft. Why would they feel exposure in the WRC would help them as a global software/tech company? Interested to hear any views or insights to this.

Advertising is not only about exposure. A director of a division of a company gives your team some money, but then you must hire his wife's company for "marketing consulting" or "logistic organizer" or something like that.

[tomhlord]

Advertising is not only about exposure. A director of a division of a company gives your team some money, but then you must hire his wife's company for "marketing consulting" or "logistic organizer" or something like that.

Why does a director have to be male and marketing consulting female? That's a very sexist statement and not cool.

[A FONDO]

http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/ee0eb2e771f682f5ad0fc749c6403e95.jpg

[N.O.T]

Why does a director have to be male and marketing consulting female? That's a very sexist statement and not cool.

hey kid go join some social justice club and leave those bullshit out of this forum... we are men in here.

[stefanvv]

Why does a director have to be male and marketing consulting female? That's a very sexist statement and not cool.

What he wanted to say is (we have an expression in our language which has no translation in english, consists of two synonyms of "brother-in-law" + Co.). Keep the business in the family.

[EightGear]

What he wanted to say is (we have an expression in our language which has no translation in english, consists of two synonyms of "brother-in-law" + Co.). Keep the business in the family.

Nepotism.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tommi at Monte:
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/tommi-makinen-you-just-go-absolutely-flat-out-everywhere

[jparker]

My only hope is we don't get M$ software used in this WRC project. God forbid. Just let them pay the bills.

[itix]

hey kid go join some social justice club and leave those bullshit out of this forum... we are men in here.
Hey tard, go play with the other tards at special tard house when fully functional adults can supervise your Internet usage!

[EstWRC]

so, this team is becoming slowly finnish-estonian village team :p :)

for example, the rally and recce cars are in our register, Lehtinen asked Andrus Laur to build the service park and he did that, Märtin is running the japanese guys and now in an interview with Mäkinen in estonian press we find out that they are building a logistic centre near Tallinn.

He is saying that finland is becoming too small for them, they have 9 test cars, 10 trucks and Tallinn is a good intermediate station for them and its not far from finland and it saves time. At the moment it is logistic centre but he doesnt rule out that in the future they will also take care of the cars between rallies there.

He also says it has just happened this way that the team is finnish and Latvala is a gift from VW for them.

and because its estonian interview there is of course a question about Tänak :D

You also wanted Tänak into your team?

Of course! i really wanted to sign him and he would sit in a Toyota right now if he wanted. Unfortunately he is connected to m-sport. He is really good and fast driver, his last season was impressive. I think he has the most potential of the current drivers, he has "sisu"

[dimviii]

He is saying that finland is becoming too small for them, they have 9 test cars, 10 trucks and Tallinn is a good intermediate station for them and its not far from finland and it saves time. At the moment it is logistic centre but he doesnt rule out that in the future they will also take care of the cars between rallies there.


so Finland wasn't a good choice about logistics.

[Franky]

I think they've got pretty much everything planned out. Think they bought the land at the beginning of last month, if I understand the records I found online. It's an empty plot currently, unless they've got all the planning done already and started building.

Mäkinen has seemed to have quite a lot going on in Estonia from the beginning. Starting from MM Motorsport and finishing with Laur, who earlier ran the Eurolamp team.

[Sulland]

so Finland wasn't a good choice about logistics.

Well in my book that is BS, it is two hours by car to a large logistics airport in Tampere. Jyväskele airport can also take down most log aircraft, but will be expensive since you need to charter.

[dimviii]

Well in my book that is BS, it is two hours by car to a large logistics airport in Tampere. Jyväskele airport can also take down most log aircraft, but will be expensive since you need to charter.

so it is BS, or is it expensive to transport from Finland? you confused me.

[GravelBen]

Why does a director have to be male and marketing consulting female? That's a very sexist statement and not cool.

Where did SlowSon say anything about it having to be that way? Its a hypothetical example, get a grip.

Would you have reacted in the same way if the hypothetical example had the genders reversed? By your own reasoning that would be just as sexist. In fact it seems that you're the sexist one here, because nobody else tried to read sexism into a simple comment.

[Rallyper]

The Yaris really looking good on JML tests before Rally Sweden.

[danon]

https://www.facebook.com/TOYOTAGAZOORacingWRC/videos/316265358775656/
^
^
https://s28.postimg.org/5vbbp6h0t/yml.jpg

[Sulland]

Toyota have had a start to their new campaign very few believed in until Latvala came in, and started his testing.

I am afraid Hänninen need to start showing some top times in Mexico, or Lappi will be number 2, or Mikkelsen will get a call, via Even Management.

But two special rallies have gone good, lets se how the Yaris likes Mexican gravel, and especially Italian asphalt before we conclude on overall general speed.

but so far congratulations are in order!

[dupanton]

and especially Italian asphalt before we conclude on overall general speed.



Is there a new rally this year? :o

[sete]

maybe he mean Corsician asphalt

[Rallyper]

The Yaris really looking good on JML tests before Rally Sweden.

Told ya! However Mikkelsen will soon be at Citroen. And as you say Lappi 2nd driver.

[Simmi]

A bit of detail on Latvala's development of the Yaris. Everyone said it was noticeable how so quickly when he got in the car it started to look like a decent bit of kit. Testing like a madman before Christmas really paid off. Clearly he has some good car development nous too. Really happy for everyone involved.


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128087/latvala-my-changes-made-toyota-win-possible

[tomhlord]

A bit of detail on Latvala's development of the Yaris. Everyone said it was noticeable how so quickly when he got in the car it started to look like a decent bit of kit. Testing like a madman before Christmas really paid off. Clearly he has some good car development nous too. Really happy for everyone involved.


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128087/latvala-my-changes-made-toyota-win-possible

Very interesting indeed. Judging by what Latvala says in that interview, the SS17 of Meeke and the set-up changes to Paddon's car through the weekend, getting the diff setting suited to the car, the roads and the driving style seems to be key to success this season.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Supercharged Toyota Yaris GRMN hot hatch confirmed:

http://cdn2.evo.co.uk/sites/evo/files/styles/gallery_adv/public/2017/01/new_yaris_rear_final.jpg?itok=-MoDR2Yn

http://www.evo.co.uk/toyota/yaris/18599/toyota-yaris-grmn-hot-hatch-confirmed-for-geneva-show-debut

[Antony Warmbold]

Hi All, hope everyone is doing well! I must say Tommi is doing a great job, and so much so that it motivates to post again on the forum :)

[AL14]

New Yaris with rear spoiler attached in the sides according to the rule.

https://www.facebook.com/TOYOTAGAZOORacing/videos/1019492028194838/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

[NickRally]

New Yaris with rear spoiler attached in the sides according to the rule.

https://www.facebook.com/TOYOTAGAZOORacing/videos/1019492028194838/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

Excellent video

[Rally Power]

Yep, and it's great to notice that TMG is giving a positive contribution to TGR and Makinen's team. After the F1 disaster and Le Mans still unachieved win, I feared they would be the weakest link on Toy's rally venture. Gladly, they’re not.

[lnvs]

New Yaris with rear spoiler attached in the sides according to the rule.

https://www.facebook.com/TOYOTAGAZOORacing/videos/1019492028194838/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

Seems like the "secret" partner for aerodynamic development is Mercedes F1 team @ Brackley.

[pantealex]

Yep, and it's great to notice that TMG is giving a positive contribution to TGR and Makinen's team. After the F1 disaster and Le Mans still unachieved win, I feared they would be the weakest link on Toy's rally venture. Gladly, they’re not.

TMG is NOT building new engine for Yaris, ILMOR is.
Should be in use at Rally Portugal

[AMSS]

Are they really allowed to make a completely new engine? Doesn`t the rules say You have to use the same homologated engine for 3 seasons? I`m not sure though..

[Sulland]

Hope they get both cars to the finish line in Mexico, to gather data!

[SubaruNorway]

Are they really allowed to make a completely new engine? Doesn`t the rules say You have to use the same homologated engine for 3 seasons? I`m not sure though..

Correct me if I'm wrong, but i think new teams have 3 jokers?

[liposh]

I don't know everything but I know a lot of small things and in my opinion pantealex is giving you wrong info.

[Lundefaret]

An engine is homologated by specs, not who/where it is produced?

I dont know who is going to produce the engines, or if it is Ilmor (BTW, are they still owned by Mercedes-Benz?), but I have heard from a reliable source that the engine will no longer be produced by Toyota TMG, but by another source (and have no reason to doubt Pantealex), and it is supposed to be introduced before Rally Portugal.

[AMSS]

Yes it`s by specs and at least it has been very limited what you can change mechanically(I don`t know how it is with these new cars) so it would seem a bit strange to transfer something TMG designed to another company when they are quit limited in what they can change. I read Mercedes has a completely unique combustion chamber design in their F1 engines so maybe this is what TMR is after.. If Ilmor is part of Mercedes that is

[Lousada]

Mercedes bought the engine division of Ilmor in 2005 and stopped using the Ilmor name.

The rest of the Ilmor company continued as an independent engineering company who also produce racing engines, see www.ilmor.com

So what is now called Ilmor has nothing to do with Mercedes.

[OldF]

Citroen’s engine manager Patrice Davesne explain the 2017 engine regulations.

https://issuu.com/hi-techmedia/docs/rallysport_magazine_october_2016 (pages 44-45)

Regarding the evolutions which will be permitted in the future.

“We can make changes, but some parts of the engine are frozen by the regulations for three years. For example, bore is not allowed to change, the distance between cylinder and the distance between camshafts can’t change. But we have three jokers per year and, for example, we can change in the same year pistons, connecting rods and oil sump. Each year there are three jokers and we can use them as we want – it can be development, increase our power or durability, it’s as we want.”

In the beginning of the article he says that the bore has change from 82 mm, which had been used from the beginning of Citroen’s time in WRC, to 84 mm which is the max bore allowed by FIA.

[jparker]

Yes it`s by specs and at least it has been very limited what you can change mechanically(I don`t know how it is with these new cars) so it would seem a bit strange to transfer something TMG designed to another company when they are quit limited in what they can change.

Not strange to me. It's good to have reputable "colleague" involved. Just in case.

[Rally Power]

TMG is NOT building new engine for Yaris, ILMOR is.
Should be in use at Rally Portugal

That's quite a surprise! TMG's engine seems to be competitive; any special reason to change for Ilmor?

[liposh]

If I am not mistaken it won´t be new engine. It will be same TMG engine just produced by someone else. (probably because of production capacity, flexibility etc.)

[Hasselhoax]

And Ilmor just stopped their cooperation with Renault F1.

I guess they got tired of playing tennis and wanted in with the big league.

[Rally Power]

If I am not mistaken it won´t be new engine. It will be same TMG engine just produced by someone else. (probably because of production capacity, flexibility etc.)

(or Makinen's will to get rid of TMG...)

[pantealex]

(or Makinen's will to get rid of TMG...)

Mr.Toyoda didn´t like that engine was illegal in Monte...

maybe, just maybe someone in TMG did that on purpose

Changing engine supplier was not Tommi´s decision

[dimviii]

RallyingUK *

TOYOTA GAZOO RACING WRT: @Mobil1 returns to WRC with @TGR_WRC @Mobil1TheGrid #WRC #wrcjp @CRASH_NET

[DonJippo]

Lappi to drive third Toyota in Portugal, no changes to Juho's position in the team. http://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000005171545.html

[itix]

Lappi to drive third Toyota in Portugal, no changes to Juho's position in the team. http://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000005171545.html
Either Toyota wrote a really shitty contract with no exit clauses or he has some personal shit on Tommi. I can't believe he's still in the team.

He doesn't ever learn either...

[Franky]

Cheer up. Finally you know, when Lappi will start.

[Allez Andruet]

I can't believe he's still in the team.
We're FOUR RALLIES into the season and he's STILL in the team! Imagine that! No but seriously, you really must feel for both Hänninen and Lefebvre. The season has barely started (with all events being more or less "special" events if you like) and all kinds of forum experts and social media idiots are already wondering why they're STILL in WRC! I don't think it's ever been this bad before. And that Mikkelsen fanboy Colin Clark with his own personal agenda... jesus christ. Someone please just give that Norwegian a customer version of 2017-spec Fiesta already so we'd no longer have to listen to Colin Clark's weeping after each rally.

How come it's so hard to understand that these guys have been hired to drive a full (or almost full as in case of Lefebvre's) season and even if the other one seems to crash in every rally and the other seems to be just a bit too slow for the big league, it can actually be just as nice to see these guys getting their chances than it would seeing the same old faces motoring around season after season? Just let the guys do their job for God's sake!

And sorry for OT, but I just couldn't help myself.

[AL14]

What plays in favour of Hanninen is that he has been developing the car from the very beginning and his feedbacks when he doesn't hit trees or bridges are valuable in a developing point of view (or at least I guess it since I don'r really know properly how it works this kind of developing stuff).
Also he has a contract, yes contract can be breaken but they are still contracts.

I think the only reason to get rid of him (but still keeping him as a test driver) would be a longtime contract with Mikkelsen but I don't know if Andreas will agree with that.

[itix]

We're FOUR RALLIES into the season and he's STILL in the team! Imagine that! No but seriously, you really must feel for both Hänninen and Lefebvre. The season has barely started (with all events being more or less "special" events if you like) and all kinds of forum experts and social media idiots are already wondering why they're STILL in WRC! I don't think it's ever been this bad before. And that Mikkelsen fanboy Colin Clark with his own personal agenda... jesus christ. Someone please just give that Norwegian a customer version of 2017-spec Fiesta already so we'd no longer have to listen to Colin Clark's weeping after each rally.

How come it's so hard to understand that these guys have been hired to drive a full (or almost full as in case of Lefebvre's) season and even if the other one seems to crash in every rally and the other seems to be just a bit too slow for the big league, it can actually be just as nice to see these guys getting their chances than it would seeing the same old faces motoring around season after season? Just let the guys do their job for God's sake!

And sorry for OT, but I just couldn't help myself.
What really baffles me is that he's known to be a crasher so they should have known to put exit clauses in the contract.

There are plenty of drivers on the market (granted, there were less when they signed him) and if I was Tommi I'd be so disappointed in Hänninens performance thus far. Crashed all four rallies and some rallies twice when he didn't even have anything to gain from pushing.

Yes he has developed the car, but that in no way excuse his dismal performance, especially given that Toyota only had two cars and he had the manufacturers championship to look after.

It isn't strange that they signed him when they did. What is strange is that he is still there...

[mknight]

We're FOUR RALLIES into the season and he's STILL in the team! Imagine that! No but seriously, you really must feel for both Hänninen and Lefebvre. The season has barely started (with all events being more or less "special" events if you like) and all kinds of forum experts and social media idiots are already wondering why they're STILL in WRC! I don't think it's ever been this bad before. And that Mikkelsen fanboy Colin Clark with his own personal agenda... jesus christ. Someone please just give that Norwegian a customer version of 2017-spec Fiesta already so we'd no longer have to listen to Colin Clark's weeping after each rally.

How come it's so hard to understand that these guys have been hired to drive a full (or almost full as in case of Lefebvre's) season and even if the other one seems to crash in every rally and the other seems to be just a bit too slow for the big league, it can actually be just as nice to see these guys getting their chances than it would seeing the same old faces motoring around season after season? Just let the guys do their job for God's sake!

And sorry for OT, but I just couldn't help myself.

Citroen kicked Duval out for 2 rallies mid-season after he crashed in 5 out of 6 first rallies in 2005.

Also as others pointed out Hanninen crashed in 4 out of 6 rallies with Hyundai in 2014. (one of the crashes didn't cost him whole rally). This year he has crashed in 3 out of 4, now on Corsica even twice on same event. Not exactly impressive. If he now has a contract to drive whole year no matter what then Tommi must have been a bit desperate when signing him (understandable with no VW exit in sight).

Sure he actually doesn't have that much experience in WRC cars. But he won't get much experience (and Toyota much test data) by crashing on friday every other rally. He seems like a really nice guy. Then someone just pls tell him to first drive a bit more safe and then increase the speed.

[Simmi]

I agree four rallies is way too soon to pull the ripcord. But for sure Latvala's win in Sweden was the worst-possible thing that could have happened for Juho. Because the goal posts have completely moved since he was signed. And the 'learning year' has become something more. Tommi can be as loyal as he wants but what about Tommi's bosses?

For the record I'd like to see Juho complete the full season. The one thing we've never seen is a full campaign in a WRC car from Hanninen which has often led to conversations about how good he is/could be. I hoped this stability would have helped him this year but it appears perhaps not. Hopefully he can make things right as I believe this will be his final year in the WRC.


The big question for me is - if Toyota come to Mikkelsen mid-season with a two-year contract (2018/2019) but no rallies for this season. Does he sign that deal? Or does he play poker again that maybe Citroen break a contract, or that Ogier creates more ripples and moves on, leaving space at M-Sport?

[Franky]

Security can only get you so far but when you are competing with guys who have done the stages at least for a few years, then you are already disadvantaged. We all know that experience counts in WRC but for some reason many seem to disregard this important fact.

[Allez Andruet]

http://toyotagazooracing.com/release/2017/wrc/0418-01.html

Official confirmation that Lappi will drive the third Yaris WRC in Portugal.

[Simmi]

Nice to FINALLY see a press release. Still just one rally confirmed for the moment though.

[itix]

Security can only get you so far but when you are competing with guys who have done the stages at least for a few years, then you are already disadvantaged. We all know that experience counts in WRC but for some reason many seem to disregard this important fact.
Sure, but there are people with natural speed and consistency that prove that you can go semi fast without crashing. Breen is a good example. Both Sebastien too. I can probably think of more examples if I try.

Kubica I could understand because he lacked rally experience in general (compared to Hänninen anyway) but I absolutely can not understand why he pushes so much when he clearly don't have the skills.

It can't be all notes errors or lack of preparation, especially given the semi decent times he set when he's not crashing.

[AnttiL]

On the opening stages and power stage of Monte, two stages in TDC and some SSS's in Mexico, Hänninen was capable of making top 4 times. In Monte, Sweden and TDC he had a pretty good pace on the splits on the stage before crashing. But for the actual gravel stages in Mexico and the opening stages in Sweden, he was among the slowest WRC cars. In TDC, it was unforgivable to crash on the stage before Power Stage when he couldn't win anything having already started Rally 2, instead he could have gone to the Power Stage without anything to lose and at best made some points.

Meanwhile Breen, Sordo and Tänak have done what a team second driver should do. Either consistency or podiums, both at best.

[Allez Andruet]

Kubica I could understand because he lacked rally experience in general (compared to Hänninen anyway) but I absolutely can not understand why he pushes so much when he clearly don't have the skills.

Right... he clearly doesn't have the skills. Probably doesn't make too much sense to continue this black and white discussion any further...

Regarding Hänninen, I think Tommi said it well in the recent Finnish newspaper article, that while it's unfortunate that Hänninen has crashed a few times, he's also had really bad luck when crashing. Corsica was simply bad from that point of view, no doubt, but the mistakes he made in MC and Sweden were really small ones - they just happened to be so costly. If you compare the two mistakes (just purely as driving errors) to the ones Ogier made in same rallies for example... I don't think they were any worse as driving errors. But hey, let's just say that he clearly doesn't have the skills :D

[itix]

Right... he clearly doesn't have the skills. Probably doesn't make too much sense to continue this black and white discussion any further...

Regarding Hänninen, I think Tommi said it well in the recent Finnish newspaper article, that while it's unfortunate that Hänninen has crashed a few times, he's also had really bad luck when crashing. Corsica was simply bad from that point of view, no doubt, but the mistakes he made in MC and Sweden were really small ones - they just happened to be so costly. If you compare the two mistakes (just purely as driving errors) to the ones Ogier made in same rallies for example... I don't think they were any worse as driving errors. But hey, let's just say that he clearly doesn't have the skills :D

Well first of all, that was not meant the way it sounded. I didn't mean he has no skill... Just that he's overdriving it. To be honest I think you understood that.

To call the crashes so far unlucky is to look at it with rose colored spectacles. He braked way too late both in Monte Carlo, in Sweden, twice and in Corsica... Twice. Mexico was not great but he was sick so it was understandable... Also the car suffered from overheating.

Of course Tommi will say the political thing in the media. When was the last time you heard a team boss say "He's crap and he makes too many mistakes"? You don't (ok except Penasse with Neuville a few years back).

Regardless how you look at it, he crash too much and he did at Hyundai too and he did in the ERC too.

If I were Tommi, I'd be disappointed... Very disappointed. He has been given a big chance with a full season contract and so far he has mostly wasted it.

[J_n_z]

What we know about Hanninens technical feedback to engineers, his technical knowledge?
Maybe he can say a lot about the car, maybe he was sent to push to the limit...
I think Toyota is not concerned about factory standings this year and Latvalas points position is pure bonus for the first season.

[Allez Andruet]

To call the crashes so far unlucky is to look at it with rose colored spectacles.
A crash caused by driving error is never unlucky, but the consequences can be classified as lucky or unlucky. For example, Ogier had luck in that sense, when he braked way too late in SS3 in MC. Hänninen on the other hand, was unlucky for somewhat similar error in SS5.


Regardless how you look at it, he crash too much and he did at Hyundai too and he did in the ERC too.
Not sure about the IRC/ERC/SWRC years, but sure, the season with Hyundai and the Toyota resume so far don't give too much to argue against that statement - although it must be said that in 2014 the "crashes" in Sweden (stone in the rut) and Finland (crash caused by a puncture) were something else than just driving errors.

But ofcourse, having said all that, if Hänninen can't justify his existence in WRC during 2017 (and I mean full season, not four rallies), then he's out and there's no-one else to blame.

[itix]

A crash caused by driving error is never unlucky, but the consequences can be classified as lucky or unlucky. For example, Ogier had luck in that sense, when he braked way too late in SS3 in MC. Hänninen on the other hand, was unlucky for somewhat similar error in SS5.


Not sure about the IRC/ERC/SWRC years, but sure, the season with Hyundai and the Toyota resume so far don't give too much to argue against that statement - although it must be said that in 2014 the "crashes" in Sweden (stone in the rut) and Finland (crash caused by a puncture) were something else than just driving errors.

But ofcourse, having said all that, if Hänninen can't justify his existence in WRC during 2017 (and I mean full season, not four rallies), then he's out and there's no-one else to blame.
For sure. Toyota has a multi year program so he is unlikely to be in next year's roster if he continue like this.

I am just surprised he is still there because he was a brave choice already to begin with.

I am surprised that Toyota have not rotated Lappi with him while they had only two cars. I don't imagine his contract says he is to do all of the rounds of the championship.

[jacko]

What we know about Hanninens technical feedback to engineers, his technical knowledge?
Maybe he can say a lot about the car, maybe he was sent to push to the limit...
I think Toyota is not concerned about factory standings this year and Latvalas points position is pure bonus for the first season.

You're fully right. All the bull-shit about Juho here. In every season you've got drivers wich don't deliver (for the greater public) and others will shine. All the talk about Neuville in the past and now he's the man... Offtopic; the only one i'm thinking of he's dissapointed in the results (stage-times) so far is Lefebvre. Ontopic: Hanninen is a three time champ with specially good results back in the IRC days. He's driven many cars wich makes him a very experience driver, he's know as a good testdriver in general and also a good teammember in general. Even that last one counts also. Offcorse, if his results don't come compare with Latvala than he don't have a drive next year we all know (maybe even after Finland), but that's for later on. Now it's time to bring the Toyota to the top and so far i think everybody is suprised how good the car already is and that's for sure with the experience of Juha involved.

[mknight]

Tommi in his own press release: "the objective for him (Lappi) personally is the same as the objective for the whole team: he needs to finish the rallies and collect as much information as possible."

Well crash-tests also give information.

EDIT: To clarify: Tommi indirectly says that Hanninen does not fulfill the main team goal.

[Allez Andruet]

Today's story in Motorsport News didn't give too much light to the Toyota/Mikkelsen topic. Basically Tommi said that he has nothing against Mikkelsen in that car, but that's about it at the moment. To me it sounded like something similar that Tommi has said in the past about some other drivers as well. And now with all these Hyundai rumors going on, I guess we'll just have to wait and see how things develop.

[Rally Power]

Tommi in his own press release: "the objective for him (Lappi) personally is the same as the objective for the whole team: he needs to finish the rallies and collect as much information as possible."
Well crash-tests also give information.

Actually last year Lappi didn’t crash a single time (his only mistake was getting stuck in a ditch during Sweden Rally, where he finished 3rd). He become WRC2 champ by winning 4 events in a row, but he could get the title earlier without the suspension failure in Sardignia and the hidden rock in Poland (the same that took away Tanak’s victory), as he was leading both events.

Besides showing a strong consistency he was also clearly the fastest guy around, with 66 stages wins all season long (almost twice those of main competitors).

Yep, there’s no guarantee he won’t return to a more irregular driving with the Yaris, but we shouldn’t minimize his ‘16 achievements, as they were the result of a successful personal evolution. Anyway, he totally deserves Toyota chance; best luck to him!

eWRC data: https://www.ewrc-results.com/season.php?s=2016&sct=222&nat=95&t=WRC-2

[mknight]

Sorry for the possible misunderstanding.

I was responding to the posts just above saying how Hanninen might be giving good feedback etc. At about same times those posts were written Tommi told what I quoted in the press release.

Hence my reaction that Hanninen does not fulfill the main objective that Tommi states for whole team: "finish rallies and collect information".

My post was in no way directed on Lappi.

[AnttiL]

I think Toyota is not concerned about factory standings this year and Latvalas points position is pure bonus for the first season.

Yeah, I gotta admit this is true, but I think what both Toyota and Hänninen need is competitive stage kilometres and you don't get that by crashing on the first stage. Latvala has been a wise man this year, trying to finish every rally, not pushing too much and not having those small mistakes that plagued his career before, ruining a rally by hitting a rear wheel somewhere. And while being consistent, he has also been fast on some stages, especially on Power Stages.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hanninen was out of competitive WRC action for quite a while... no drives in 2016 and only one rally in 2015. That must have an effect on him coming into a full 2017 season after so long just testing...

[Allez Andruet]

Hanninen was out of competitive WRC action for quite a while... no drives in 2016 and only one rally in 2015. That must have an effect on him coming into a full 2017 season after so long just testing...

That's a very good point and probably plays a big role in what we've seen from Hänninen so far in 2017. To be completely out for a year and then only to test during another definitely doesn't give you any competitive edge.

Modern WRC is anyway about driving at the limit on different stages for three days, whether you're actually "pushing" or not. That is something which is really hard to simulate during any kind of testing session.

[Hartusvuori]

That's a very good point and probably plays a big role in what we've seen from Hänninen so far in 2017. To be completely out for a year and then only to test during another definitely doesn't give you any competitive edge.

Modern WRC is anyway about driving at the limit on different stages for three days, whether you're actually "pushing" or not. That is something which is really hard to simulate during any kind of testing session.

When Latvala signed to Toyota, just a few weeks before homologation papers were due in, he demanded several big changes to be made it to Yaris, for example to differentials. Latvala got his wishes through, and as we remember he tested like a madman just before Christmas and due to that Yaris seemed notably faster.

I think this didn't work in Juho's favor. The six day test Toyota did in Finland before Sweden, Latvala started and videos from those days showed absolute speed. Then on Juho's turn he looked completely lost. He was reported saying finding no trust to the car after Latvala's setups and it took time to get it back more to his liking. Suddenly the car he had been developing and testing for thousands of kilometers was not his anymore. Clearly Juho have had difficulties in adapting to these changes. He have had his bad luck too. Monte Carlo he found a surprisingly icy corner and as we remember, that same corner caught half a dozen other crews on second run, most notably Andolfi to whom the tree was not so gentle anymore. Corsica mistakes should've been avoided for sure.

As we are listing his excuses, and I should go back to the source on this one to refresh my memory, but regarding his last start in Hyundai in Wales and his day 1 off road excursion, I remember reading from his column in VM Magazine at the time that mechanics have made a mistake with rear dampers fitting them somehow wrongly which made the car very difficult to drive.

It must be said I'm a Juho fan. He is about the most likeable guy in rallying, always showing his dry sense of humour. And on stages he is fast. This season is his first proper shot in WRC level as he is contracted for full season. He has made it hard for himself, but from the bottom of my heart I hope he could at least occasionally prove us wrong and deliver that good result.

[bluuford]

Actually last year Lappi didn’t crash a single time (his only mistake was getting stuck in a ditch during Sweden Rally, where he finished 3rd). He become WRC2 champ by winning 4 events in a row, but he could get the title earlier without the suspension failure in Sardignia and the hidden rock in Poland (the same that took away Tanak’s victory), as he was leading both events.

Besides showing a strong consistency he was also clearly the fastest guy around, with 66 stages wins all season long (almost twice those of main competitors).

Yep, there’s no guarantee he won’t return to a more irregular driving with the Yaris, but we shouldn’t minimize his ‘16 achievements, as they were the result of a successful personal evolution. Anyway, he totally deserves Toyota chance; best luck to him!

eWRC data: https://www.ewrc-results.com/season.php?s=2016&sct=222&nat=95&t=WRC-2

I think it was Lappi who had relatively lucky crash in GB as well, back-end of the car was quite badly damaged but luckily, nothing that affected driving seriously. But yes, he was better than previous seasons, at the same time, there was relatively weak competition for him.

Edit: Found the video as well, that was question of mm-s ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcjeDsnji2c

[Allez Andruet]

It must be said I'm a Juho fan. He is about the most likeable guy in rallying, always showing his dry sense of humour. And on stages he is fast. This season is his first proper shot in WRC level as he is contracted for full season. He has made it hard for himself, but from the bottom of my heart I hope he could at least occasionally prove us wrong and deliver that good result.
Couldn't agree more.

[Rally Power]

I think it was Lappi who had relatively lucky crash in GB as well, back-end of the car was quite badly damaged but luckily, nothing that affected driving seriously. But yes, he was better than previous seasons, at the same time, there was relatively weak competition for him.

Edit: Found the video as well, that was question of mm-s ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcjeDsnji2c

Come on bluuford, that's just a small mistake with only 'cosmetic' damages and litle time lost. Btw, considering Tideman, Suninen or Evans as 'relatively weak competition' for Lappi seems a bit exagerated...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I was just hearing about a Jarmo Lehtinen interview (Sporting Director for Toyota WRC). He confirmed it was Latvala's technical know-how and experience of many different WRC cars that earned him a seat with Toyota, over Mikkelsen.

This was exactly why I said he got the seat ahead of Mikkelsen and I was widely ridiculed for it as many saw this as irrelevant and Mikkelsen as just the faster driver.

So I'm glad I was proved correct in my theory. I also think Latvala has shown that Toyota made a good decision, by the way he immediately developed the Yaris and has made it much faster than many thought from its previous test runs.

[mknight]

Have to agree with the resident troll tbh.

If anything Latvala is mostly known to constantly struggle with the setup and getting lost in it 2-3 times on same rally. Ref. his comments on how he was changing his setup to reflect Ogier's.

[COD]

a finish nobody telling lies... why i am not surprised ?

The fact that latvala and Makinen share the same manager made the difference, everything else is just fuel for the autists.


I would not call Lehtinen a nobody by any means.

But I have to agree with your second statement

[Allez Andruet]

I was just hearing about a Jarmo Lehtinen interview (Sporting Director for Toyota WRC). He confirmed it was Latvala's technical know-how and experience of many different WRC cars that earned him a seat with Toyota, over Mikkelsen.


If anything Latvala is mostly known to constantly struggle with the setup and getting lost in it 2-3 times on same rally. Ref. his comments on how he was changing his setup to reflect Ogier's.
...and where's the conflict?

[dimviii]

. Then on Juho's turn he looked completely lost. He was reported saying finding no trust to the car after Latvala's setups and it took time to get it back more to his liking. Suddenly the car he had been developing and testing for thousands of kilometers was not his anymore. Clearly Juho have had difficulties in adapting to these changes..

I have been working on the differential settings in particular: I didn’t feel that they were the best for me in Mexico, so that is something I really wanted to improve for Argentina, and we have some good solutions now.”

http://toyotagazooracing.com/wrc/report/2017/05/preview.html

[Fast Eddie WRC]

a finish nobody telling lies... why i am not surprised ?

The fact that latvala and Makinen share the same manager made the difference, everything else is just fuel for the autists.

You cant argue with this idiot who has no facts and just denies everything, even information direct from the team, that proves him wrong.

Re Latvala know-how - everyone including N.O.Troll was criticising the Yaris in testing... then Latvala comes along, tests and tests more, makes some big changes to the (Hanninen) car and suddenly it's capable of winning stages and rallies.

JL: "He is an important developer of our car because he is well aware of all the technology and also very interested in it."

Mikkelsen may have had a better 2016, but Latvala has years of experience with WRC cars, even going back to active-diff cars. Is it a fact that Mikkelsen would've turned the crappy Yaris into a winner just by his driving ?

[N.O.T]

basic simpletons believing everything they read.

No surprises there.

[Allez Andruet]

basic simpletons believing everything they read.
Don't worry, maybe someday you can read as well.

[SubaruNorway]

Mikkelsen may have had a better 2016, but Latvala has years of experience with WRC cars, even going back to active-diff cars. Is it a fact that Mikkelsen would've turned the crappy Yaris into a winner just by his driving ?

Mikkelsen has 3 years in active cars as well.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Mikkelsen has 3 years in active cars as well.

But is he a a dyed-in-the-wool rally car nut like Latvala, someone who lived and breathed rallying and rally cars all his life, who would do it as a hobby if it wasnt his job ?
Or is he just a fast driver who has very often just had a good car to start with ?

Mikkelsen was desperate to continue with the 2017 Polo, saying that this was because it was what he was used to. He didnt want to have to take a lot of time adapting to another (inferior) car.

Toyota let Ogier test their car, wanting him to join them (presumably as the best driver, but also for his knowledge). When he turned them down they then went for Latvala. They didnt even let Mikkelsen test..

[jparker]

So you belive Ogier turned down Toyota's offer? If he remains with Ford next year, I'm going to believe you.

[AMSS]

So you belive Ogier turned down Toyota's offer? If he remains with Ford next year, I'm going to believe you.

Well he says so himself in an interview in latest finnish VM magazine... At the time of his testing the car was not very competitive and he was positively surprised about their speed in the beginnig of the season..

[jparker]

Well he says so himself in an interview in latest finnish VM magazine... At the time of his testing the car was not very competitive and he was positively surprised about their speed in the beginnig of the season..

If Ogier knew he's not going to get a drive with Toyota, what do you expect him to say?
Can someone confirm TGR actually offered Ogier a drive?

[pantealex]

If Ogier knew he's not going to get a drive with Toyota, what do you expect him to say?
Can someone confirm TGR actually offered Ogier a drive?

You believe that TGR just wanted Ogier to test Yaris and nothing else ? No work offers ?

I don´t have any proof of TGR offer, but I still believe they did make very good offer to Seb.

[AnttiL]

Can someone confirm TGR actually offered Ogier a drive?
Can you confirm they did not offer him a drive?

I'm sure the VW drivers negotiated with all teams and Toyota had negotiations with a lot of drivers to find stars for their line-up. There's a video of Ogier testing the Yaris WRC, struggling on a slippery tarmac road, it's not hard to believe his comments about not liking the car. It's definitely improved a lot after JML joined the team, although I don't doubt for a second that Ogier couldn't have achieved the same.

[jparker]

Can you confirm they did not offer him a drive?


Of course not, that's why I keep quite. Some other people here are building their analyses based on unkonfirmed facts.

[Watson]

Can you confirm they did not offer him a drive?

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/makinen-ogier-was-right-to-turn-down-toyota-859532/

Sounds to me like Ogier walked away before they even got to print an offer. I remember Ogier saying that he will choose competitiveness over money even before he started testing either car. And why wouldn't he? Being 4-time WC in the then richest team means he has his financial future sorted out already anyway. Plus he kept going on about how much he liked Malcolm Wilson.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Of course not, that's why I keep quite. Some other people here are building their analyses based on unkonfirmed facts.

You dont half talk some crap.. I wish you would keep quite (sic).

Ogier, the 4x World Champion is available. But new boys Toyota only 'allowed' him to test the Yaris, but didnt offer him a drive, so he rubbished the car.

Ridiculous. He turned them down after preferring the M-Sport Fiesta.

[AL14]

Of course not, that's why I keep quite. Some other people here are building their analyses based on unkonfirmed facts.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0IyaxiGQnfFvytY4/giphy.gif

[N.O.T]

Ogier looks a lot like Emmanuel Macron

[AMSS]

You dont half talk some crap.. I wish you would keep quite (sic).

Ogier, the 4x World Champion is available. But new boys Toyota only 'allowed' him to test the Yaris, but didnt offer him a drive, so he rubbished the car.

Ridiculous. He turned them down after preferring the M-Sport Fiesta.

Everybody with a sain logical way of thinking agrees with Fast Eddie, how you even can come up to think like jparker is beyond me..
Also the fact that Latvala had to wait for a drive until Ogier made his decision supports these clear facts..

[dimviii]

Teemu / Rallirinki‏*
@HartusvuoriWRC
Toyota Gazoo Racing's #WRC project's Operations Director Lauri Riipinen has resigned from the job. He announced his departure in Facebook.

[N.O.T]

time to hire another finnish useless nobody to munch on the autists japanese yen.

[AMSS]

Teemu / Rallirinki‏*
@HartusvuoriWRC
Toyota Gazoo Racing's #WRC project's Operations Director Lauri Riipinen has resigned from the job. He announced his departure in Facebook.

From what I have heard he`s not the only one who has gone through the exit door recently, several mechanics have also apparently left.

[br21]

With Lauri leaving the boat it will not be easy for them...

[dimviii]

With Lauri leaving the boat it will not be easy for them...

where this guy had worked before?

[Franky]

time to hire another finnish useless nobody to munch on the autists japanese yen.

N.O.T, this is your chance now!

[Andre Oliveira]

Can someone admin change this thread to "Toyota Gazoo Racing WRT" title?

[N.O.T]

or finnish nationalistic dog team managed by a bloat faced nobody.

[pantealex]

where this guy had worked before?

nowhere in WRC.

My understanding is that he is not going to any other rallyteam.

[DonJippo]

From what I have heard he`s not the only one who has gone through the exit door recently, several mechanics have also apparently left.

It is normal in every business that people come and go for various reasons. Not every exit is due to cause crisis in organisations and based on results so far during the season don't think it is too difficult to find new people for Toyota WRC program.

[AMSS]

It is normal in every business that people come and go for various reasons. Not every exit is due to cause crisis in organisations and based on results so far during the season don't think it is too difficult to find new people for Toyota WRC program.

Yes of course, I didn`t mean there`s any drama to it

[steve.mandzij]

or finnish nationalistic dog team managed by a bloat faced nobody.
>"nobody"

>four time world champion

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[OldF]

Looking at Linkedln Lauri Riipinen has been working mostly with Tommi, besides his studies.

https://fi.linkedin.com/in/lauri-riipinen-98804a16

[Fast Eddie WRC]

>"nobody"

>four time world champion

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Dont worry, Makinen is just another of the whole sack of chips the troll has on his shoulder...

[Co-FIN]

..

[Franky]

He's worked with TMR for a long time and was basically leading the company when he left it and became back to WRC project. He was one of the first employees in WRC project.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe the deal was just to get everything up and running and then he could pursue other interests, if he doesn't want to continue?

[dimviii]

Teemu / Rallirinki‏*@HartusvuoriWRC


More
Another personnel change at @TGR_WRC. Terhi Heloaho has been promoted as Head of PR and Marketing, meaning Tiina Lehmonen stepped out.

[N.O.T]

That bloat faced nobody is circling through his friends and family in order everyone to have a go at the money... lets see if those useless autistic japanese will wake up.

[Rally Power]

No idea if it was already mentioned here, but diariomotor site is saying that Lappi will drive all remaining season events (only Australia isn’t certain yet) and Toyota has compromise to stay in WRC till 2022. http://www.diariomotor.com/competicion/category/wrc/

[pantealex]

It appears that Lappi has only 1 year deal with TGR...

There mind be other interested teams also for 2018, of course TGR as well.

[Sulland]

Very impressive first year by Toyota.

Not many here had many euros on them succeeding in 2017!!

[seb_sh]

I have to admit they are above my expectations but I wonder how much of it is down to Latvala.

[Allez Andruet]

I have to admit they are above my expectations but I wonder how much of it is down to Latvala.

Then again... does it make any difference?

[AnttiL]

It appears that Lappi has only 1 year deal with TGR...

There mind be other interested teams also for 2018, of course TGR as well.

And probably other drivers interested to take a seat in TGR.

[AnttiL]

TGR just made their record of the season in manufacturer points, 30 points. Although they've still got work to do, M-Sport has made over 30 points in every rally except Tour De Corse

[Watson]

Eventhough they have two capable drivers in Latvala and Lappi now I doubt they can overtake Hyundai. Neuville and Sordo usually take home a good bag of points unless the hickups of the i20 are going to continue.

They will pretty surely stay above Citroen though.

[macebig]

I think if there was a mid term report card for Toyota the bottom line would be :"Exceeded Expectations".

[N.O.T]

Very impressive first year by Toyota.

Not many here had many euros on them succeeding in 2017!!

what is impressive about them ? the fact that they have a driver who won 3-4 events each year and now struggles to be in top 3 ? the fact that they trail a private team ?

[Franky]

N.O.T, every (factory) team is trailing a private team ...

[EstWRC]

whoa!!!, this article claims they will test for poland here in estonia! i hope we will get to know where!!! http://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000005251370.html

and Mäkinen again saying he is interested in Tänak http://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000005251932.html?ref=rss

for some reason google translate wont translate these sites for me, you have to copy the text.

[AnttiL]

Basically Mäkinen says they need winners to succeed and they're always interested in a driver like that. It's just the magazine's "own sources" which claim that "Mäkinen has been interested in Tänak for a while".

Nothing too special information in the articles. They are considering a test event in Finland (Autoglym Ralli). There's also new software and some improvements in the motor and reduction of weight for the car.

[mknight]

whoa!!!, this article claims they will test for poland here in estonia! i hope we will get to know where!!! http://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000005251370.html

and Mäkinen again saying he is interested in Tänak http://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000005251932.html?ref=rss

for some reason google translate wont translate these sites for me, you have to copy the text.

I wasn't able to find how long Tanak has contract at M-Sport.

What I could find is that at Hyundai all 3 have contract up to end of 2018.

Meeke and Breen have up to end of 2018.
Lefevbre I do not know.

Evans I do not know, prbly 1 year?
Ogier has 1 year.
Tanak don't know.

Latvala 1 year I think.
Hanninen and Lappi 1 year.

Of the free drivers there is Mikkelsen and then Sunninen (due to age, speed and performance also on tarmac) , Camili kinda unlikely, maybe Østberg, dunno about other likely candidates.

Now is the time when deals are starting to be made and typically are signed around Finland (but published first at the end of season). Some drivers will have real pressure on them in Poland, most notably Lefevbre and Hanninen.

Let's speculate on the possible moves:

Ogier to Toyota (more likely) or Citroen
Tanak to Toyota is imo not so likely, but possible.
Evans imo stays where he is. (good performance, but not so good that other teams will be very interested). Possibly 2 car deal with Østberg?

Latvala and Lappi will stay at Toyota.
Hanninen most likely out.
Sunninen limited program at Toyota.

Meeke either stays or out, all depends on Finland and car development. I certainly cant see other teams picking him. (crashes, seemingly can't develop a car)
Breen stays.

Lefevbre prbly reduced program if they can get someone else.

Mikkelsen to Citroen (if he feels the car can be driveable), to Toyota (if they don't get Ogier) or to Ford (if Ogier moves elsewhere).

[Rallyper]

So Toyota six car team and Ford one car team then? :) :)

[AnttiL]

Maybe a new thread for 2018 seats? http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?37287-2018-Teams

[EstWRC]

Tänak has a contract until the of this year. as far the info i have got, Tänak himself wanted to go to Toyota last year but as we know Wilson had the "first right" to keep him and that was it.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Keep an eye out for a documentary called "TEAM" which follows Toyota's return to WRC. It is 1 hour long and looks at how relationship between Tommi & Toyota was formed then how the team gradually grew over 2015 & 2016. Finishes up just after Monte Carlo 2017 event. It is a must watch if you get the chance to see it.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Watch it where?

[mohit]

Toyota have done a great job and

people doubted makinnen should simply zip there lips.

Yaris is a pretty robust car and fast too. Respect that at least.

[N.O.T]

Toyota have done a great job and

people doubted makinnen should simply zip there lips.

Yaris is a pretty robust car and fast too. Respect that at least.

Maybe thats why Latvala will have his lowest championship position in years and also the least number of wins in years this year....

http://i.imgur.com/NUHrgXS.png

[KiwiWRCfan]

Watch it where?
In NZ it appeared on free to air TV on Duke channel. No idea what TV channels on other countries may put it to air. Way it was listed was more like a documentary or business program than a sport program.
Suggest you try searching online TV guides for your own country and see if you can locate it.

[Revman]

In NZ it appeared on free to air TV on Duke channel. No idea what TV channels on other countries may put it to air. Way it was listed was more like a documentary or business program than a sport program.
Suggest you try searching online TV guides for your own country and see if you can locate it.

Would love to see this. I am fascinated by the necessity of human relationships in the success of technologically driven sport.

[pantealex]

Maybe thats why Latvala will have his lowest championship position in years and also the least number of wins in years this year....



He was 6th last year...
Let´s see if you are right!

[Rally Power]

Keep an eye out for a documentary called "TEAM" which follows Toyota's return to WRC. It is 1 hour long and looks at how relationship between Tommi & Toyota was formed then how the team gradually grew over 2015 & 2016. Finishes up just after Monte Carlo 2017 event. It is a must watch if you get the chance to see it.

Does the doc say why Mr. Toyoda changed his mind in July 2015, taking the WRC program from TMG and giving it to Makinen?

[Revman]

Does the doc say why Mr. Toyoda changed his mind in July 2015, taking the WRC program from TMG and giving it to Makinen?

This is a fascinating piece to me. This wasn't always in the plan?

[TWRC]

This is a fascinating piece to me. This wasn't always in the plan?
Originally, TMG built a Yaris based on the previous WRC regulations, and signed people like Hirvonen and Suninen to test it, you can find various videos of this car on Youtube. But later something happened (maybe TMG's disastrous performance at Le Mans?), and the project was given to Mäkinen.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Online perhaps we can watch this program?

[Rally Power]

This is a fascinating piece to me. This wasn't always in the plan?

Not really. TMG started developing a Yaris WRC during 2013. The first proto hit the road in 2014 but the car and the WRC program were only officially presented by Mr. Toyoda (aka Morizo) in Japan, during Toyota’s 2015 motorsport activities presentation. It was then told that Toyota would be back to WRC in 2017, via TMG. Surprisingly, Toyota announced in early July that Makinen was taking control of the WRC project. Till the end of ’15, while Makinen was assembling the new team, TMG continue testing their Yaris with Sarrazin, Lindholm, Camilli and Suninen as test drivers. It wasn’t clear what role TMG would have, as Makinen announced that his structure was developing a different car. During ‘16 we get to know that TMG was still implicated in the project as engine supplier, but this year some (unconfirmed) news mentioned Makinen was trying to get a replacement for the German made engines.

These are all known facts (previously mentioned in this thread), but the reason why Mr. Toyoda replaced TMG by Makinen Team never come out to public. We can only speculate that he got really pissed with TMG humiliating result at Le Mans '15 and stopped believing they could deliver a winning WRC car. Anyway, it would be nice to know what this documentary says about it.

Btw, most of TMG Yaris videos were removed from their YouTube channel but some official videos are still available:
https://youtu.be/o3ZW1m4z-FA
https://youtu.be/QY8A4m0g5aw
The same about official news:
http://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/detail/5736875#.VMsLvv7b3vA.facebook
http://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/detail/8622687/

[racerx1979]

http://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/e/cryckp/world-rally-championship-episode-guide/

Not sure if this is the correct video or an old video, but either way it says episode 120 is about that return of Toyota to WRC

[Revman]

Not really. TMG started developing a Yaris WRC during 2013. The first proto hit the road in 2014 but the car and the WRC program were only officially presented by Mr. Toyoda (aka Morizo) in Japan, during Toyota’s 2015 motorsport activities presentation. It was then told that Toyota would be back to WRC in 2017, via TMG. Surprisingly, Toyota announced in early July that Makinen was taking control of the WRC project. Till the end of ’15, while Makinen was assembling the new team, TMG continue testing their Yaris with Sarrazin, Lindholm, Camilli and Suninen as test drivers. It wasn’t clear what role TMG would have, as Makinen announced that his structure was developing a different car. During ‘16 we get to know that TMG was still implicated in the project as engine supplier, but this year some (unconfirmed) news mentioned Makinen was trying to get a replacement for the German made engines.

These are all known facts (previously mentioned in this thread), but the reason why Mr. Toyoda replaced TMG by Makinen Team never come out to public. We can only speculate that he got really pissed with TMG humiliating result at Le Mans '15 and stopped believing they could deliver a winning WRC car. Anyway, it would be nice to know what this documentary says about it.

Btw, most of TMG Yaris videos were removed from their YouTube channel but some official videos are still available:
https://youtu.be/o3ZW1m4z-FA
https://youtu.be/QY8A4m0g5aw
The same about official news:
http://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/detail/5736875#.VMsLvv7b3vA.facebook
http://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/detail/8622687/

Thank you so much......If Makinen doesn't go through TMG for the engines, where might he go? How does Toyota stay involved?

[sollitt]

Does the doc say why Mr. Toyoda changed his mind in July 2015, taking the WRC program from TMG and giving it to Makinen?

No. It's a 'feel good' promotion of Team TMR.

[sollitt]

Thank you so much......If Makinen doesn't go through TMG for the engines, where might he go? How does Toyota stay involved?By writing cheques.

[KiwiWRCfan]

http://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/e/cryckp/world-rally-championship-episode-guide/

Not sure if this is the correct video or an old video, but either way it says episode 120 is about that return of Toyota to WRC

Yes that sounds like it is the documentary I saw

[pantealex]

Thank you so much......If Makinen doesn't go through TMG for the engines, where might he go? How does Toyota stay involved?

Ilmor is building their engines.
and TMG is still helping/supplying somethings to TMR/TGR

[racerx1979]

Ilmor is doing engine software. Engines are still built by TMG. See below quote from Makinen himself.

Engine work for the Yaris is completed by TMG in Cologne, but Makinen admitted Ilmor had begun to supply some software solutions.

[racerx1979]

Yes that sounds like it is the documentary I saw

Ahh great. Hopefully it will be available online soon.

[pantealex]

TGR has built 12 WRC so far.
-8 for rallying
-4 test cars