Toyota announces WRC plans

[Zeakiwi]

Gazoo Racing press conference on today. WRC engine on the dyno and colour scheme 2016 etc
https://youtu.be/NcNNRKpGS5g?t=9m30s Tommi 22:50

[GigiGalliNo1]

Toyota Gazoo Racing

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160204/3554b414fe926d3cceda78e41735e362.jpg

[cali]

Fugly

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

[WUff1]

Looks like a toy car.

[AndyRAC]

Oh dear, that looks ***** let's hope it goes better than it looks.

What makes it worse is it unveiled alongside the LMP & GT cars......they look like proper competition cars.

[janvanvurpa]

Toyota Gazoo Racing

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160204/3554b414fe926d3cceda78e41735e362.jpg
Somebody with connections tell the idiot stylists that black wheels is so last decade..so NASCAR, so just plain stupid--you cant see anything..
That car is ugly enough without looking like local ricer-bois

[Simmi]

This isn't a 2017 spec WRC car so there's not too much point over-analyzing the look of it.

[GigiGalliNo1]

And it's 2016 Livery

[EstWRC]

i dont get it. The Fiesta, Polo and i20 dont look great cars in street spec but they look awesome in rally spec but this looks even worse in rally spec.

[makinen_fan]

Whatever you do to this car it will never look nice
http://preview.netcarshow.com/Toyota-Yaris_3-door-2009-1024-02.jpg

The other 3 WRC road cars look much better

[AL14]

I think Makinen and friends dedicated no more than 5 minutes for that livery. I think they have quite a big list of higher priorities. They just said someone to put colors in it.

BTW, since we have nothing better to talk about... :) I think the design of the livery in such car should be different to the common ones. It's a little car but it's meant to be a little scamp, a little killer, like a very agile little man who fight against big and fats opponents. I don't know how it can be represented but it would be nice, IMO, if that would be the concept behind it. :)

[Lundefaret]

Tough the Mäkinen car will have similarities, this is the TMG car, so a bit early to judge the general design.
But for me, fast cars looks cool, so if its a winner it will automatically look cool :)

[stefanvv]

They could do something different for the rear wing, it looks wrong on that car.

[EstWRC]

ist not just the wing, the whole car looks wrong.

[Mirek]

There are cars which are ugly and still cool in their way such as Lancer WRC 05. This is just ugly.

[Simmi]

I think Makinen and friends dedicated no more than 5 minutes for that livery. I think they have quite a big list of higher priorities. They just said someone to put colors in it.

It's the Gazoo Racing motorsport colours - so nothing to do with Makinen or anyone involved with his team really. It was launched alongside the new Toyota LMP1 car, N24 car and others. It's really just a placeholder car and livery at this stage so really not worth much attention.

[Lundefaret]

ist not just the wing, the whole car looks wrong.

If Im allowed to be a design critic, I can say that there is some issues with the proportions.
The stubby nose has almost the same angle of attack as the wind shield, so You dont get the usual bonnet/windshield distinction. So the car will look visually shorter in the front, and when its very rounded at the front this will transfer visual weight forward. (Cab forward design.)
The glass house (windows) is also very high, and that sets the weight high and forward.
The rear of the car has a very short overhang, making it feel lighter at the rear, not balancing of the front.
With a high stance and high arches it exaggerates this impression.
If the design had more aggressive lines, it could help, because it is actually the proportions of a bulldog :)
But its more important that the car is fast (tough it would be lovely with a GT86 WRC car :) )

[Barreis]

What's this?
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122693

[Rallyper]

If Toyota are serious they´ll bring enough money to lure Solberg and Loeb for one or two years. And second team with two upcomers.

[Simmi]

I think Loeb could be tempted by a testing role, a nice contract and a partial programme of rallies in 2017. He's not really got anything to do for the rest of the year now.

The Dakar isn't going anywhere. Look at Sainz/Peterhansel at their age still able to win it.

[RS]

I can't see Loeb wanting to come back full time, especially to a so-far unconvincing programme like this.

Instead of looking to the past i think Toyota should take one current safe pair of hands (Ostberg), one of their test drivers who deserves a proper chance (Hänninen) and one young gun to build for the future (Tidemand)

[HarriK]

and next week the news is: T Mäkinen want H.Mikkola and M.Alen to his new team top drivers :D :rotate:

[N.O.T]

The question is how fast will this farce flop.

[Rally Power]

Come on guys, this is just Autosport taking WRC silly season to a whole new level…after the alleged Citroen/Loeb divorce now it’s the ‘guess who at Toyota’s seat’ novel. At least their rally journo manages to provide material for great jokes!

On a more serious note, in this week MM issue (page 78) http://digital.motorsportmonday.com//launch.aspx?eid=8c223b6e-4d4a-43a4-992f-0cee80d9f456 there’s a nice talk with Erik Veiby (Even owner). It seems Lappi will be available for manus offers in 2017, and as VW’s seats will probably be occupied by current owners, he may have to look elsewhere...

[stefanvv]

On a more serious note, in this week MM issue (page 78) http://digital.motorsportmonday.com//launch.aspx?eid=8c223b6e-4d4a-43a4-992f-0cee80d9f456 there’s a nice talk with Erik Veiby (Even owner). It seems Lappi will be available for manus offers in 2017, and as VW’s seats will probably be occupied by current owners, he may have to look elsewhere...

I guess it'll also depends on his performance this year, because last year was not very good for him. On this basis VW would like to keep their drivers, also Makkinen said himself is interested in him, so this is likely to happen.

[pantealex]

50.000km test for Yaris.

How many km´s have other tested before homologation ?

[RS]

50.000km test for Yaris.

How many km´s have other tested before homologation ?

Seems ambitious, especially as they don't have a car yet.

[dimviii]

http://bit.ly/1TvMHVC

[dimviii]

Jarno Saari ‏@SaariJarno

Rally rumour from North Finland: new Toyota Yaris @OfficialWRC test car has run the first snow tests before Easter.

[stefanvv]

before Easter.

which one?

[Hartusvuori]

which one?

How many Easters are there?

[N.O.T]

name the biggest flop

makinens toyota team or makinens career at Subaru ?

[Andre Oliveira]

Early evaluation :) Lets wait 2017

[stefanvv]

How many Easters are there?

In my country we have 2 (depending on the religion branch), but the more important one is on 1st of May this year (I think also applies to dimviii, be he will tell).
I was just kidding, if there is no typo in the message of course:)

[Simmi]

Loeb is seemingly doubling down and committing to Peugeot into next year.

Not spoken to Makinen/Toyota apparently - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123768/loeb-rules-out-toyota-wrc-drive?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

It's looking more and more like Hanninen might get a drive here.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Toyota guys in Argentina...

[Rally Power]

Loeb is seemingly doubling down and committing to Peugeot into next year.
Not spoken to Makinen/Toyota apparently - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123768/loeb-rules-out-toyota-wrc-drive?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


Loeb was only an option to Makinen in some journos heads and probably Solberg too.

Makinen already has the experienced Hirvonen helping the team developing the car. Who knows, maybe Hirvonen (alongside Haninen) will also drive in some events next season, but with younger guys available (like Neuville or Lappi) it would be a shame not to invest in a future champ from the beginning.

[JakefromWRC]

Toyota in WRC is good. Wonder what vehicle they are going to use.

[N.O.T]

probably the hilux... another special one among us.

[Toyoda]

probably the hilux... another special one among us.

In saying that NOT, if they used the Hilux it may stand up to Latvala's "Rocks" if he was to move to Toyota...

[smokingjoe]

In saying that NOT, if they used the Hilux it may stand up to Latvala's "Rocks" if he was to move to Toyota...

would need to be based on the LN106 to be Latvala-proof

[Toyoda]

would need to be based on the LN106 to be Latvala-proof

This is true, the GQ patrol would be preferable...

[satukata]

Toyota started testing new car almost two weeks ago. http://www.mtv.fi/sport/ralli/uutinen/artikkeli/tommi-makinen-paraytti-toyotan-testit-kayntiin-alla-jo-tuhat-kilometria/5864958

[satukata]

Teams headquarters stays in Finland http://www.mtv.fi/sport/ralli/uutinen/artikkeli/makinen-wrc-tallinsa-suunnitelmista-toiminta-jatkuu-taalla/5865004

[Barreis]

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124001

[jiipee64]

Looks and sounds great.

[N.O.T]

did they announce when they will flop ?

[Eli]

did they announce when they will flop ?

probably after the first stage in Monte-Carlo... ;)

[Jack4688`]

Or like the F1 team 7 years and zero wins later?

[JakefromWRC]

I would say Toyota would use the GT86 (or whatever its called over the three names it has) for rallies, but, I doubt that would happen.

[itix]

Looks and sounds great.

Pics, or it didn't happen ;)


I would say Toyota would use the GT86 (or whatever its called over the three names it has) for rallies, but, I doubt that would happen.

It has already been established a long time ago that they are using the Yaris. Mäkkinen has said it in interviews etc.

[EightGear]

Here it is.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160504/d08ceb3c3b6bf55b1f898a92a4c47c09.jpg

[itix]

Finally! Wing look funny!

[itix]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Chmrp4PWwAEEvYi.jpg

[seb_sh]

That's what happens when the rules allow for big aero and small cars... :P

Other than that, it seems this is the 206 of this generation, what's the wheelbase compared to the others?

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

NOT is NOT amused..xD

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

[dimviii]

strange rear fender.At other wrc cars is much higher from the wheel to allow suspension travel.
Lets see a video now.


edit.

a new one from
Teemu / Rallirinki ‏@HartusvuoriWRC

Premiere pictures of #YarisWRC #WRC2017 captured in tests today in Finland.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChmokftWMAAsZyF.jpg

[GigiGalliNo1]

Bet it'll be the smallest 2017 WRCar =D

[Rally Power]

Great to see they're testing it. Best luck to Toyota Gazoo WRC Team.

[Rallyper]

Video https://youtu.be/2MkGV0Vt7FI

[dimviii]

some new ones

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChnjMsUXIAED87W.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChnjNPEXEAE-G0b.jpg

[Allyc85]

That wing! Quite encouraging to see it actually running!

[Jack4688`]

Looks stupid.

Also is this a just a test mule using the current Yaris? i.e. will there be a new model on which to base the WRC car by 2017 (this version has been in production since 2011)?

[Barreis]

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124108

[N.O.T]

Looks ok... i think the R5 cars are going to have hard time beating it.

[TON]

NOT you must be highly qualified and or have inside information to judge so well from a few pictures and a 23 second video. What is it exactly you do in Motorsport again?

[COD]

I just hate the 2017 cars in general. So stupid looking and killing all sideways action.

But wish them well and hope they manage to develop it to a competitive machine

[Munkvy]

At least that wing will make it stand out from the other cars...

[N.O.T]

NOT you must be highly qualified and or have inside information to judge so well from a few pictures and a 23 second video. What is it exactly you do in Motorsport again?

i am god, so when i say something you just take notes.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Glad to see the Toyota break cover and on test. We need as many WRC cars as possible in the series. More companies can only be good for the future. And more seats for other drivers to have a chance to show what they can do...

[GravelBen]

i am god...

You spelt 'dog' wrong.

[danon]

High resolution pics -> http://rallirinki.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Toyota+Yaris+WRC+test+4.5.2016/

http://rallirinki.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Toyota%20Yaris%20WRC%20test%204.5.2016/_50A0567.JPG?img=img1280

http://rallirinki.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Toyota%20Yaris%20WRC%20test%204.5.2016/_50A0587.JPG?img=img1280

[Toyoda]

Sounds like it has the VW style ALS ?

[pantealex]

I like those side mirrors ;)

[pantealex]

Also is this a just a test mule using the current Yaris? i.e. will there be a new model on which to base the WRC car by 2017 (this version has been in production since 2011)?

This is new one, which look like current one.
so answers to your questions: No and yes, the WRC will be based in new 2017 Yaris.

[Lundefaret]

What is that code?

I read it as:
Infinity divided by zero times one.

Is it an "indeterminate form", which can be interpreted like either "work in progress" or "indefinite possibilities", or am I missing the point?

[GravelBen]

Could just be an engineer's sense of humour when told to put a number on the car! :beer: :idea:

[itix]

From the front it looks like the Subaru Impreza a bit. Probably just the color scheme but still...
Also anything divided by zero becomes "error" so probably humor ;)

[stefanvv]

What is that code?

I read it as:
Infinity divided by zero times one.

Is it an "indeterminate form", which can be interpreted like either "work in progress" or "indefinite possibilities", or am I missing the point?

Infinity divided by zero is still infinity in non-standard algebra, multiplied by 1 is still the same. But what does it mean is anyone's guess.

[Andre Oliveira]

Rallirinki

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13131556_1353973697965387_2371947777110381607_o.jp g?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9

[dimviii]

some more photos with better resolution

http://rallirinki.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Toyota%20Yaris%20WRC%20test%204.5.2016/9Y7A1115.JPG?img=img1280
http://rallirinki.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Toyota%20Yaris%20WRC%20test%204.5.2016/_50A0567.JPG?img=img1280
http://rallirinki.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Toyota%20Yaris%20WRC%20test%204.5.2016/_50A0587.JPG?img=img1280
http://rallirinki.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Toyota%20Yaris%20WRC%20test%204.5.2016/9Y7A1128.JPG?img=img1280
http://rallirinki.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Toyota%20Yaris%20WRC%20test%204.5.2016/9Y7A1105.JPG?img=img1280
http://rallirinki.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Toyota%20Yaris%20WRC%20test%204.5.2016/9Y7A1124.JPG?img=img1280

http://rallirinki.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Toyota+Yaris+WRC+test+4.5.2016/9Y7A1124.JPG

[rage82]

Does anybody knows who was the driver and co- driver?

[dimviii]

Does anybody knows who was the driver and co- driver?

at this photo driver is Hanninen according to Hartusvuori

Teemu / Rallirinki ‏@HartusvuoriWRC

Busy testing schedule means hard work. @JuhoWRC back behind the wheel of #YarisWRC #WRC2017 today.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChrnixGVIAE8gvP.jpg:large

[EstWRC]

i maybe weird but i actually like it.

[rage82]

at this photo driver is Hanninen according to Hartusvuori

Teemu / Rallirinki ‏@HartusvuoriWRC

Busy testing schedule means hard work. @JuhoWRC back behind the wheel of #YarisWRC #WRC2017 today.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChrnixGVIAE8gvP.jpg:large

Thank you, Dimviii.

[J_n_z]

Some new ideas considering aerodynamics, flat bottom and diffuser...I like it. 2016 technical regulations are good on video, 2017 will be more photogenic.

[Nornbugger]

i maybe weird but i actually like it.

I'll like it if its quick enough :)

[dodge33cymru]

Love it, has a proper mental Group B vibe.

[Hartusvuori]

at this photo driver is Hanninen according to Hartusvuori

Teemu / Rallirinki ‏@HartusvuoriWRC

Busy testing schedule means hard work. @JuhoWRC back behind the wheel of #YarisWRC #WRC2017 today.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChrnixGVIAE8gvP.jpg:large

I was wrong. On that photo it's Tommi himself. After lunch Juho stepped in.

[Eli]

is it just me or does that front looks like the old impreza (from '07)???

[dimviii]

I was wrong. On that photo it's Tommi himself. After lunch Juho stepped in.


come on any details from tests? did they used antilag at any passes? reliability? what tyres are they using? shocks?

[EstWRC]

is it faster than Polo?

[Mariusz]

is it faster than Polo?
From the video it looks to be 0,24 s/km slower than Polo so far.

[smokingjoe]

From the video it looks to be 0,24 s/km slower than Polo so far.

so it's on par with the Ford?

[SubaruNorway]

so it's on par with the Ford?

Fiesta was 1 s/km slower on many stages in Argentina...

[Mariusz]

so it's on par with the Ford?
Ford is way slower, probably because its max measured speed is 0.

[dimviii]

from this photo we can say thats its not Ohlins they use at the tests.Maybe BOS.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChuDYyHWUAEXwyh.jpg

[Lundefaret]

from this photo we can say thats its not Ohlins they use at the tests.Maybe BOS.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChuDYyHWUAEXwyh.jpg

Mäkinen has earlier stated that he was going to work with BOS

[OldF]

"As well as the Cologne-sourced engine, parts for Toyota’s new car will come from all over Europe; Bos will supply the dampers, Alcon the brakes and Xtrac the transmission."

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport/toy-story-tommi-m%C3%A4kinen-and-toyota-are-back-wrc?utm_content=buffer79ce8&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[dimviii]

Mäkinen has earlier stated that he was going to work with BOS

hadnt read that Lundefaret. I said BOS just from the color. Thanks mate!

[EstWRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChuEkVvWEAEjmKV.jpg

[EightGear]

i maybe weird but i actually like it.
Me too.

[N.O.T]

Me too.

do not get too attached to it though... you might miss it when they pack up.

[dimviii]

https://scontent.fath4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13124970_1294110040617942_8487870802201005111_n.jp g?oh=a89e745a5413ad8daf26f946f2b370c8&oe=57E7307E
https://scontent.fath4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13177673_1294109863951293_7091591582768065795_n.jp g?oh=a0ea22ef6bc4614ee659dac821371968&oe=57B5CFAD
https://scontent.fath4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13139317_1293798880649058_6910109046790864336_n.jp g?oh=39581cbb1a4e51a7eb8f1a3976ae4f7b&oe=57AB2524
https://scontent.fath4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13138856_1294109947284618_4211483337327471430_n.jp g?oh=9b1c6325ee200938bb2d014111342dbf&oe=57E41E31

[Toyoda]

From the video it looks to be 0,24 s/km slower than Polo so far.

Lol suuuuuuuuuuure

[itix]

is it just me or does that front looks like the old impreza (from '07)???

No, I thought the exact same thing (in fact, I wrote it a few posts ago)

[EstWRC]

yeah, from front it looks like Impreza and from this side it looks like a Peugeot for me

https://scontent.fath4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13177673_1294109863951293_7091591582768065795_n.jp g?oh=a0ea22ef6bc4614ee659dac821371968&oe=57B5CFAD

[stefanvv]

Lol suuuuuuuuuuure

I also think he is too optimistic.

[EstWRC]

New video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GujS69Ux2Lk&feature=youtu.be

[N.O.T]

New video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GujS69Ux2Lk&feature=youtu.be

slower than a bag of sand.

LOL...

[Toyoda]

slower than a bag of sand.

LOL...

Hmm, Engine down on power?

[Mirek]

Hmm, Engine down on power?

There's nothing in the video which allows to judge the engine output. Besides that we don't know what spec. they are using for this testing.

[AMSS]

I agree with Mirek, also only thing you can say based on these videos is that the suspension in landings is not on VW and Ford level yet. However at this point in their testing program it means nothing...

[Toyoda]

I agree with Mirek, also only thing you can say based on these videos is that the suspension in landings is not on VW and Ford level yet. However at this point in their testing program it means nothing...

Fair call

[EstWRC]

K. Sohlberg is watching the test today and has some short videos https://twitter.com/Krisse_Sohlberg

[dimviii]

From todays Toyota WRC test close to Jyvaskyla. @JuhoWRC driving.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Chw1VHSWUAAx_1P.jpg

[Lundefaret]

I agree with Mirek, also only thing you can say based on these videos is that the suspension in landings is not on VW and Ford level yet. However at this point in their testing program it means nothing...

But we dont know their objectives do we?

[Rallyper]

What about this!?

https://twitter.com/MNRally/status/728649942651260928

[N.O.T]

What about this!?

https://twitter.com/MNRally/status/728649942651260928

LOL... its like a family bussines over at makinen village team....

[Mirek]

What about this!?

https://twitter.com/MNRally/status/728649942651260928

He is definitely very promissing driver. Why not.

[Rallyper]

LOL... its like a family bussines over at makinen village team....

Don´t remember, but he wasn´t on your list, right?

As the god you are, you forgot him. So no family business in this case. As a god you must have known that long ago.

[dimviii]

closer photo

https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13173470_10153991688355733_353729255315583176_o.jp g

[itix]

I am not sure that everyone here is seriously estimating performance from the videos and the pics we have seen but to you who do so... *laughing out loud*
Wait until season proper and three-four events has passed. First then I'm going to listen to anyone commenting on their performance relative to the others.

...and as far as looks go (disregarding the silly "masking" paint and the silly wing) it is the best looking -17 car so far. The Polo is by far the ugliest.

[Hartusvuori]

come on any details from tests? did they used antilag at any passes? reliability? what tyres are they using? shocks?

I've not seen the car myself yet. And besides, no point giving any comments here, because they'd be met by "slower than a bag of sand" kind of responses year in, year out.

[dimviii]

I've not seen the car myself yet. And besides, no point giving any comments here, because they'd be met by "slower than a bag of sand" kind of responses year in, year out.

its the God.You have to forgive him.

Tommi driving

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ch1-_O3UgAAk2Fo.jpg

[Rallyper]

Think it has been standard to have a sense of humour in assessing new cars. And that includes the god himself I do believe. Very well for me though nothing can be said seriously at this stage.

[Toyoda]

its the God.You have to forgive him.

Tommi driving

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ch1-_O3UgAAk2Fo.jpg

Looks good, sounds VW esk under breaking/down shift.
Looks low and aerodynamic, those wingmirrors are cool and the rear wing looks innovative which is def a good thing.
Would be cool to know what FEA modeling and testing facilities they have in Finland. Looks like a fair amount of work has been done.

Def looking positive! Hope they find some decent drivers with a bit of experience.

Exciting times for the WRC with 4 committed manufactures!

[Simmi]

It's hard to get a sense from the 2017 test videos. I would be interested to know whether it's possible to hear these new cars for longer before they come into view. It's really ridiculous at the moment and one of my biggest issues with the current crop of cars.

It should sound like a war is approaching.

[Toyoda]

It's hard to get a sense from the 2017 test videos. I would be interested to know whether it's possible to hear these new cars for longer before they come into view. It's really ridiculous at the moment and one of my biggest issues with the current crop of cars.

It should sound like a war is approaching.

Totally agree, I always remember the old Subarus were like a ball of angry energy approaching :)

[Lundefaret]

its the God.You have to forgive him.

Tommi driving

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ch1-_O3UgAAk2Fo.jpg

I am guessing that after the first spy shots the other teams are already starting to up their aero-work.

[GigiGalliNo1]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160507/acf1119d58db354eb94226ad0be29611.jpg

[Toyoda]

I am guessing that after the first spy shots the other teams are already starting to up their aero-work.

Was just thinking that, if that wings any good we should see it in a few months on other testing cars

[JakefromWRC]

I was gonna say the new 86 Shooting Brake concept might be used, but now that I see the Yaris.

[Mirek]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160507/acf1119d58db354eb94226ad0be29611.jpg

The first prorotype was built based on different regulations (the new ones didn't exist in that time) and by different team. There's not much You can compare. It's simply different car.

[jiipee64]

http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-8873927

[pantealex]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160507/acf1119d58db354eb94226ad0be29611.jpg

the base car is different, road model of Gazoo car is not released yet. There is almost 0 same parts in these cars.

[Simmi]

http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-8873927

Hopefully Hanninen can at least get out on Rally Finland this year. Obviously he's doing all the reccys and a lot of testing - but it would be great to get rid of some of the competition rust before 2017.

[Toyoda]

I would like to see Ott in the team next year

[EstWRC]

Well, he was competing with old Toyota Starlet at his home rally last year so we can start some rumors :p

I seriously doubt it, it seems that Tommi isnt interested in him. But you never know in this crazy world.

[HarriK]

Who will co-drive with Hänninen?

[rp]

Who will co-drive with Hänninen?

Kaj Lindström

[N.O.T]

Kaj Lindström

LOL.... are you guys doing this on purpose to trigger me ?

[Rallyper]

Finally you´re on!

[pantealex]

car #2 next week in Spain, Tommi and Juho will drive.

[Simmi]

DTM springs to mind...

Yeah first thing I thought when I saw those wing mirrors was DTM.

[wia5958]

N more k-am plates?

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

N more k-am plates?
Build in Finland..

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

[pantealex]

Build in Finland..



Yes, but impossible to get "real" plates from Finland, so they have to get plates from some other country, let´s wait pictures from #2 car test (France&Spain)

[Rally Power]

New footage of Toyota test https://www.facebook.com/yleurheilu/videos/10153451868007461/

Promising!

[EstWRC]

Toyota with Tommi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5faWTw9mac&app=desktop

[N.O.T]

Toyota with Tommi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5faWTw9mac&app=desktop

What a joke...

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

What a joke...
What do you expected from the old man..? Going slowly..?

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

[er88]

Really like the sound of that, but you can see the cars are going to drive like they are on rails :(

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[N.O.T]

Really like the sound of that, but you can see the cars are going to drive like they are on rails :(

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

do not worry Ken Block will continue to release those great Gymkhana videos with lots of sideways action for you rally fans.

[janvanvurpa]

What a joke...

Really? Looked OK.
They are doing testing on the car you know.
I thought you were some sort of lab-rat in some basement locale doing tests...I may be misinformed but it would seem that a person who for unknown reasons thinks they are knowledgeable and whose whole reason for being is to do tests would understand the point of doing tests..Evidently not NOT.

Are you going to further embarrass yourself by suggesting that Tommi never knew how to drive? or that he has forgotten how to drive?

I've never encountered in the rally world an alleged fan who has such an enormous amount of contempt as you do for virtually everybody...normally this kind of giant chasm between the speaker/writers mountain of contempt on the one hand and their total and complete lack of participation is seen in F1 fans and American hard core NASCAR fans...

Have you considered becoming an F1 and NASCAR fan? I'm sure you would find ample reasons for expressing your contempt and superiority there---and thousands of guys just like you.

And we here would NOT have to imagine you being unable to come to grips with your screaming jealousy of anybody and everybody who has actually--in the real world---driven a rally car..
Would NOT that be nice?

[N.O.T]

Really? Looked OK.
They are doing testing on the car you know.
I thought you were some sort of lab-rat in some basement locale doing tests...I may be misinformed but it would seem that a person who for unknown reasons thinks they are knowledgeable and whose whole reason for being is to do tests would understand the point of doing tests..Evidently not NOT.

Are you going to further embarrass yourself by suggesting that Tommi never knew how to drive? or that he has forgotten how to drive?

I've never encountered in the rally world an alleged fan who has such an enormous amount of contempt as you do for virtually everybody...normally this kind of giant chasm between the speaker/writers mountain of contempt on the one hand and their total and complete lack of participation is seen in F1 fans and American hard core NASCAR fans...

Have you considered becoming an F1 and NASCAR fan? I'm sure you would find ample reasons for expressing your contempt and superiority there---and thousands of guys just like you.

And we here would NOT have to imagine you being unable to come to grips with your screaming jealousy of anybody and everybody who has actually--in the real world---driven a rally car..
Would NOT that be nice?

Don't you have a check up appointment or something gramps ? why you even bother anymore ?

http://i.imgur.com/tDzAG7j.jpg

[janvanvurpa]

Don't you have a check up appointment or something gramps ? why you even bother anymore ?


It's called "a continuing interest in a sport I did for a couple of decades and that I am still daily involved in"..

Now really hard-core inter-web trolls have a clear marker, an unfailing habit and that is they never admit, no matter how blatant and obvious their being a keyboard hero--they never respond to anything questioning their sociopathic behavior...or their particular wierdness like I just asked you why again, for the 100th time, why you hang around if you despise EVERYBODY doing this sport at all levels and anybody and nearly everybody who makes a comment on it...I even suggested since you seem indistinguishable from the run-of-the-mill idiot F1 and NASCAR fan that you might be happier there among more people just like you.

You ignore that and come back with some rather moronic Gramps thing..I'm not a gramps, I'm a father to beautiful 11 and 9 year olds...That's because unlike you, I don't live in a hole, and have a miserable meaningless existence..

Really, your caustic contempt is old..We all know you have done, aside from your lab work, nothing in this world..

In clear English when a nobody who never was anything constantly criticises in the worst way everybody involved in a sport he claims to love, its painfully obvious that your total involvement is thru the keyboard..the internet, and that you are miserable, and that you are probably very unhappy with life...even if you deny it..
Really go hang out with F1 fans....there's lots of them. maybe you can meet your other half, your significant other, and be happy sitting in front of the screen complaining to him, writing about village idiots and sick dogs while you do unspeakable perversions to each other and then you can be happy.

because here you bring the whole rally forum down...even if occasionally you write something a little funny.

[KiwiWRCfan]

In clear English when a nobody who never was anything constantly criticises in the worst way everybody involved in a sport he claims to love, its painfully obvious that your total involvement is thru the keyboard...
... because here you bring the whole rally forum down...even if occasionally you write something a little funny.

thank you Janvanvurpa. You have said extremely well what many forum readers feel. A member who posts criticism constantly does bring the entire forum down.

This is a Toyota thread and having Toyota back in WRC must be good for rally. It is early days in Toyota's testing. Let's look forward to Monte Carlo 2017 with 5 manufacturers on the start line. The last time we had 5 Manufacturers in the championship was 2005 or 2006.

[DonJippo]

because here you bring the whole rally forum down...even if occasionally you write something a little funny.

This.

[stefanvv]

thank you Janvanvurpa. You have said extremely well what many forum readers feel. A member who posts criticism constantly does bring the entire forum down.

This is a Toyota thread and having Toyota back in WRC must be good for rally. It is early days in Toyota's testing. Let's look forward to Monte Carlo 2017 with 5 manufacturers on the start line. The last time we had 5 Manufacturers in the championship was 2005 or 2006.

There is term for this and is called "trolling".
Toyota are welcomed back in the world of rallying, it is only a good think after all the crisis this sport has suffered in the last decade or so. I really don't understand how can somebody who claims this is "true motorsport" is trolling against it, but trolling is like that, You don't need to find reason behind it....

[N.O.T]

As i said the main problem with the sport are fans with low standards, fans that count cars on entry lists, visiting events for 200 years and still go to spectate at hairpins, fans that want sideways action, fans that want talent-less arabs in WRC equipment, and fans that want a manufacturers involvement like Suzuki and Mini in the past just because they want more cars not true competition, that toyota team is a joke from top to bottom a finnish family business that makinen gathered all his unemployed friends to feast on the money from the japanese, and then when they are worthless on the stages you are going to cry about the superiority of WV and ogier.

[GravelBen]

If there is a problem with the sport its people like NOT who constantly whinge about everything but never actually do anything or even come up with an idea of their own. Thats what I'd call low standards.

Apologies to everyone else, I'm probably encouraging the troll by giving him/her attention.

Can you do polls on this forum? Maybe we should have a vote ;)

[jacko]

If there is a problem with the sport its people like NOT who constantly whinge about everything but never actually do anything or even come up with an idea of their own. Thats what I'd call low standards.

Well said, NOT brings nothing, never did, never will. A poor guy...

About Toyota, it's fantastic to have them back in the WRC, we will see how it will go compare to the other teams. Next year VW, Hyundai and Citroen will have the better drivers so it will be difficult to beat them. For now it's more than 8 months before MC so there's still a lot of time.
Think they will contract Neuville or Tanak besides Hanninen. And even Kubica could be a name for special (tarmac) rounds in the third car.

[seb_sh]

Indeed: NOT you are to this forum exactly what you say about the teams/drivers/fans you don't like. You are a sick dog that says the same thing all the time and is never be capable of having any kind of constructive contribution to any discussion.

Back to the topic at hand, I think there's a good selection of drivers doing the testing on this car and surely giving good feedback, but don't know what to say about their engineering department. Can they do the same things VW, Hyundai and Citroen do? I mean having the technical capability to push everything to the limit. Even if the drivers are happy with how the car handles, the other manufacturers potentially have more experience/resources on the engineering side and may simply produce faster, more robust cars. To me that's one of the big questions about this project. The other being what drivers can they get, it seems the market is now in a place where several strong drivers retired but there are relatively few drivers ready to step up and lead a team.

[itix]

[...]fans that want talent-less arabs in WRC equipment. [...]

Talentless people like Al-Attiyah who has won the Dakar multiple times, WRC2 multiple times, won the PWRC etc etc... And yeah, he has a lot of practice and money for sure, but talentless he is not.

I take it that you want a sport of 5 VW and 10 ogiers that are all equal and the results are always mixed... no problem, I have a solution for you my friend:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:One-make_series

[N.O.T]

Talentless people like Al-Attiyah who has won the Dakar multiple times, WRC2 multiple times, won the PWRC etc etc... And yeah, he has a lot of practice and money for sure, but talentless he is not.

plus olympic winner at shooting.

As i said people with low standards is the plague of this sport and that is the reason why the sport is hard to progress.

No matter how many times you point it out he is perfectly happy spectating hairpins, watching ken block drift and kubica trying to kill himself... It is going to be the same with toyota, the whole structure of the team is worthless from top to bottom and when they flop you are going to cry once more like you did with suzuki and mini and you do now with m-sport, but your standards are not going to change...

if you see a person eating from the garbage bin and you point out that he is eating garbage you cannot do anything if the reply is "but i like it".

[GravelBen]

if you see a person eating from the garbage bin and you point out that he is eating garbage you cannot do anything if the reply is "but i like it".

It must be tasty garbage or you would have given up by now. :facelick:

[itix]

plus olympic winner at shooting.

*bronze medalist



As i said people with low standards is the plague of this sport and that is the reason why the sport is hard to progress.

No matter how many times you point it out bla bla NOT standard rant, yada yada, toyota rant something something, rant about the choice of food for most bears, cats, racoons etc etc

Since you seem to have a problem with other people not being like you, I suggest you stop communicating with them...

[N.O.T]

It must be tasty garbage or you would have given up by now. :facelick:

I am not the happy one seeing the family business of discarded finish has beens and never beens running toyota

[stefanvv]

Back to the topic at hand, I think there's a good selection of drivers doing the testing on this car and surely giving good feedback, but don't know what to say about their engineering department. Can they do the same things VW, Hyundai and Citroen do? I mean having the technical capability to push everything to the limit. Even if the drivers are happy with how the car handles, the other manufacturers potentially have more experience/resources on the engineering side and may simply produce faster, more robust cars. To me that's one of the big questions about this project. The other being what drivers can they get, it seems the market is now in a place where several strong drivers retired but there are relatively few drivers ready to step up and lead a team.

Every team has his own approach, but there are basic similarities. It is engineers that construct the car, drivers can make them faster. I trust Makkinen as a driver knowing what to demand of the car to make it strong and fast. The rest future will tell, but denying everything before it began is surely NOT the way to go.
Lets not forget the driver line-up, this is the most important and I think they should give a chance to young talent for one of the cars.

[Toyoda]

I am not the happy one seeing the family business of discarded finish has beens and never beens running toyota

How much information do you have on the team? are you privilege to more information? I think NOT, Do you know all the Engineers, Engine designers, facilities, etc, there is not a huge amount of information out there that I can find so who knows what they have cooking up in their base. By the looks of the car they certainly haven't been standing still. Clearly Toyota saw something in Makinen, and if you think Toyota can be fooled then you are the fool,
Having a base and decent roads out the back all in a tight location is the ideal facility to test there modeling theories and also form an empirical based approach. Seems smart and efficient to me.

[jacko]

plus olympic winner at shooting.

As i said people with low standards is the plague of this sport and that is the reason why the sport is hard to progress.

No matter how many times you point it out he is perfectly happy spectating hairpins, watching ken block drift and kubica trying to kill himself... It is going to be the same with toyota, the whole structure of the team is worthless from top to bottom and when they flop you are going to cry once more like you did with suzuki and mini and you do now with m-sport, but your standards are not going to change...

if you see a person eating from the garbage bin and you point out that he is eating garbage you cannot do anything if the reply is "but i like it".

There you again, how do you know about "the whole structure of the team is worthless from top to bottom" ? You don't know nothing, you're pretending yourself as a insider but you know no shit at all what's going on.
Makinen is a four time world champion and he wants to be succesfull again for sure. He's not doing something just for the fun. He will do everything to make this Toyota project to be a winning team, count on that.
Hanninen as a test-driver was the first good decision because he's a lot of experience with different cars, we all know that. Can you name one driver who was a better choice right now ? About engineers etc., i think also that Makinen and his team will take good people stepping onboard. TTE is making a strong engine, this car will be on the front in 2018 i certainly believe in.

I have said it before: please looking for a new hobby because from the first moment you've arrived here on the forum only the Loeb & Ogiers could find some credits from you but the rallysport is a lot more than only these champions and your comments in general make most of the time not any sense, has no contribution to anything. Just negative and i can't see why you're still here. You just love the reactions about your comments but in the end you're a poor lonely the only.

I like the raw pure speed of Ogier like i do the same with a showman Ken Block or a specialist driver like Panizzi, the dedication of Kubica and a good average topdriver like Mads Ostberg. In the end i just love rally, the whole package.
And offcorse i criticize some things in the WRC like some stupid rules in the past (or present), the WRC approach from Suzuki in 2007 was a thing indeed or the ever wasted time of Matthew Wilson as a topdriver.
But specially nowaday i'm really happy the things in the WRC are in progress, there will be five (!) manufacturers in 2017 (and only one of them could be champion so you know that by now) and the WRC2 is just something really really succesfull also. It's good to have so many same cars and the entry-list is growing and growing with each rally (national & international) with good drivers where you can make also more a good justment about who's really fast or just fast (or in your words slow).

[N.O.T]

There you again, how do you know about "the whole structure of the team is worthless from top to bottom" ? You don't know nothing, you're pretending yourself as a insider but you know no shit at all what's going on.
Makinen is a four time world champion and he wants to be succesfull again for sure. He's not doing something just for the fun. He will do everything to make this Toyota project to be a winning team, count on that.
Hanninen as a test-driver was the first good decision because he's a lot of experience with different cars, we all know that. Can you name one driver who was a better choice right now ? About engineers etc., i think also that Makinen and his team will take good people stepping onboard. TTE is making a strong engine, this car will be on the front in 2018 i certainly believe in.

I have said it before: please looking for a new hobby because from the first moment you've arrived here on the forum only the Loeb & Ogiers could find some credits from you but the rallysport is a lot more than only these champions and your comments in general make most of the time not any sense, has no contribution to anything. Just negative and i can't see why you're still here. You just love the reactions about your comments but in the end you're a poor lonely the only.

I like the raw pure speed of Ogier like i do the same with a showman Ken Block or a specialist driver like Panizzi, the dedication of Kubica and a good average topdriver like Mads Ostberg. In the end i just love rally, the whole package.
And offcorse i criticize some things in the WRC like some stupid rules in the past (or present), the WRC approach from Suzuki in 2007 was a thing indeed or the ever wasted time of Matthew Wilson as a topdriver.
But specially nowaday i'm really happy the things in the WRC are in progress, there will be five (!) manufacturers in 2017 (and only one of them could be champion so you know that by now) and the WRC2 is just something really really succesfull also. It's good to have so many same cars and the entry-list is growing and growing with each rally (national & international) with good drivers where you can make also more a good justment about who's really fast or just fast (or in your words slow).

I never claimed to be an insider, i am just using common sense...

The car looks slow (as was the mini and suzuki and when i was saying that mini looked slow i was still getting abuse) and the team structure is a worthless assortment of finnish guys who probably got together because they think they might get revenge because the french on all levels treat them like dogs all these years because the days where finnish managers were infesting the sport with useless people is over...

If it is hard to accept that a person has a better perception of the sport than yourself then just do not bother with the top form of rallysport which is the WRC, visit local village events that are fun and you can count WRCs in the hands of dogs you consider rally drivers...

I am just better than you at perceiving the sport, i know it is hard to accept someone is better than you but life is like that sometimes, you can shout abuse all you want but the truth won't change.

[Rallyper]

Now, that´s your point of view, N.O.T. And you´ve come out with it. So let´s wait and see. Even if you claim you´re god, you´re not so much god you can predict the future. Let´s have discussion how Toyota succeeded or failed about one year from now.

Let´s go back to topic.

Guys, it looks great so far. Let´s hope for a top driver also to test/hired for 2017. About to be happening soon, to be able to build car around that driver.

[USER47]

...I am just better than you at perceiving the sport...

Judging the speed of WRC car from short youtube footage of early testing session is not called "being better at perceiving the sport", it's called being laughable know it all. Especially with your track record of this kind of sharp commentary on cars/drivers/anything and everything.

[N.O.T]

Judging the speed of WRC car from short youtube footage of early testing session is not called "being better at perceiving the sport", it's called being laughable know it all. Especially with your track record of this kind of sharp commentary on cars/drivers/anything and everything.

the thing is when i am right about almost everything for so many years then maybe i am "a know it all" after all... and maybe that is hard to accept.

[jacko]

I never claimed to be an insider, i am just using common sense...

Like I said you're pretending yourself as a insider with your comments but... nuff said

The car looks slow (as was the mini and suzuki and when i was saying that mini looked slow i was still getting abuse) and the team structure is a worthless assortment of finnish guys who probably got together because they think they might get revenge because the french on all levels treat them like dogs all these years because the days where finnish managers were infesting the sport with useless people is over...

You are the first man on earth how can judge a car on youtube about speed. Well, maybe you played a bit too much with your playstation. First you don't know the driver, you don't know if the driver can go on full speed amd you don't know what's the mission of the test. What you have seen was only the second or third test of the car. All the french versus finnish talk is just a piece of crap, nothing to do about this. It's time for you to let it go, you're playing the old song again and again, it's boring. And about the Mini, well that car was pretty good i think. On tarmac in the hands of Sordo the results were for sure not bad. Just a pity BMW didn't really want to invest in the Prodrive-Mini WRC project.

If it is hard to accept that a person has a better perception of the sport than yourself then just do not bother with the top form of rallysport which is the WRC, visit local village events that are fun and you can count WRCs in the hands of dogs you consider rally drivers...

The top form of the rallysport is just a piece of the total rallysport. As i said before the rallysport has a lot more to offer, it's you that can't see it, it's your shortcoming here. I know the importance of the top of the top (like every sport has the number 1), i know what's the standard and what role it has but after Ogier and VW there's a lot more what makes the WRC/ WRC2/WRC3/ ERC/ national rallyworld in total.

I am just better than you at perceiving the sport, i know it is hard to accept someone is better than you but life is like that sometimes, you can shout abuse all you want but the truth won't change.

Happy for you, give yourself a big applause...

[Hartusvuori]

I've promised to keep myself out of this NOT discussion, but this forum needs defending. I know this attention is the only thing why he keeps going with his rants year after year, but as ignoring him collectively seems impossible, I'd like to call upon moderators what they think. Can we take a vote or do we just have to bear with him?

NOT masks his pointless critics as demand for higher standards while he himself in my opinion represents the lowest standard: constant whining, bad mouthing, repeating same thing time after time and in my opinion the worst of all - sucking the energy from people who would actually have willingness to do something positive for this forum and in that form to this sport as well. His contribution is nothing but negative, a life ending kind.

So, moderators, in my opinion it's your call now to make a statement how you would like this forum to be seen.

[N.O.T]

I was banned a year ago and you started crying like little girls for me to come back... you even dedicated a thread for me... do you honestly think i care ? i just voice my opinions, if the rules do not allow that feel free to ban me.

Just don't come crying again when the finnish joke toyota is flops like mini and suzuki.

[wia5958]

Mini didnt flop wheres the proof that it flopped? The program was pulled and im sure pro drive with all theyre years of building wrc cars would have made it a success. Shame there wasnt a mute button for u N.O.T and im sure everyone on the forum will agree with me here when i say this as it pretty much sums you up. "The man who thinks he knows everything.. Knows nothing" Your no fan of rallying. Have you ever actually been to a wrc event and experienced the atmosphere for every competitor that passes the stage. And if you complain about people standing at hairpins at rallys and other common interest places? Where do you stand if youve ever actually been roadside at stage

[N.O.T]

Have you ever actually been to a wrc event and experienced the atmosphere for every competitor that passes the stage. And if you complain about people standing at hairpins at rallys and other common interest places? Where do you stand if youve ever actually been roadside at stage

I have never been in a stage...i prefer the tv and couch, is it fun ?

[wia5958]

I have never been in a stage...i prefer the tv and couch, is it fun ?

Thought that. A maps probably too complicated for u to read as it doesnt have a keyboard attatched to it

[N.O.T]

Thought that. A maps probably too complicated for u to read as it doesnt have a keyboard attatched to it

no, it is just i do not like to leave my house too often, i might try visit an event soon probably something local though, i heard wrcs are a bit loud and i do not enjoy loud noises, also the sun hurts my eyes a bit.

[wia5958]

Anyway the toyota looks good and sounds good im sure it wont be far away. Get a good driver and theyll have a good package these things dont create success over night like some people think but given time they could be a real threat will certainly liven up the manufacturers championship a bit if not the drivers

[wia5958]

no, it is just i do not like to leave my house too often, i might try visit an event soon probably something local though, i heard wrcs are a bit loud and i do not enjoy loud noises, also the sun hurts my eyes a bit.

No point going the ogier and vw wont b there u dont like "mediocre" drivers may start saving for a wrc event finlands always good theyl be past u before uve realised its not a dog

[N.O.T]

No point going the ogier and vw wont b there u dont like "mediocre" drivers may start saving for a wrc event finlands always good theyl be past u before uve realised its not a dog

might start saving then, maybe i change my views if i see a rally live and be more optimistic like you guys and girls, maybe seeing only youtube videos doesn't do the sport justice.

[janvanvurpa]

i just voice my opinions, if the rules do not allow that feel free to ban me.
.

No, you do not just voice your opinions..
You constantly claim that you state facts.
And you constantly claim that only your so called "facts" are the only "facts" that matter because "you have a better" knowledge.

But the fact that your "facts" or perception of reality are merely the observations of one frustrated and jealous and angry person escapes you means that really, in actual fact, you know nothing about rally---and personally make me wonder if you are so
ego-centric and delusional in one area you claim a strong interest is, then what are you like in other areas of life, like lab work.

One simle fact you missed is about the role or ponit in testing --again a shocking revalation for a lab-rat/student at a university (what are you doing if not systematically testing things in whatever academic field you supposedly are working in?)

Testing.....why do they do test runs? For fun? I have done hundreds and hundreds of hours of serious testing myself (in motorsport--and yes little boy it was a long time ago, before you were even thought about--but that does not alter in any way what the point of testing is so shut the fawk up about that)
Testing is done to answer if ideas, and the thing that follows from ideas, designs, and what follows from that PARTS (camshaft, links, control arms, mounting points, gears and their ratios etc) actually work as initially thought--and then designed and then made...because there is a lot of ways and places that errors can be made in thoughts, designs and fabrication and because--and here is your major lack of understanding basic ideas--because individual subject ideas are so suspect. That in the end--and anybody even looking at the smallest 25 man village event should have noticed, perception, looking at things is so suspect, and that in the end what counts is the clock.. Anybody who knows anything about ANY motorsport knows that..
But NOT you..

Therefore everything you write is NOT "the best perception of reality", its just NASCAR fan-boi type blather, bullsh1t, skit snack, paska, merde...
In a futile effort to try and reach your little shriveled hate filled mind, I asked "do you think Tommi has forgotten everything?"

Being NOThing more than a little troll-boy, you did NOT even attempt to think about and address that question... Had you even tried, had you ANY insight into motorsports at a higher level, you would know that the difference btween a guy like Tommi and say me is a certain incalculable internal DRIVE or compulsion, an internal mental push--or really near compulsion---to push to improve..If you had even an ounce of that drive, you would understand, but we know who you are and what you have done in life and we know you have NOT a clue of that drive..

Who knows what they were testing that day?
Not me and NOT you..I don't care myself. My only reaction was "gawd dame what a beautiful day it is and what just fun those roads look---man I'd love to drag out the Cosworth and hammer down those roads for an hour or two..Those gawddam Finn bastids having a country FULL of such roads, lucky bastids". Identification for/with what they were doing--as ANY person with ANY experience in motorsport would certainly have..

But NOT you...
In the end its sad to so a human so miserable and so incapable of any cure for what ails them.. A life wasted, and the poor slob NOT even aware of it.

[N.O.T]

You certainly have a lot of free time to waste all that time answering to a person you do not respect, that is one of the benefits of old age i guess.

Are you people angry because i consider the toyota team a joke ? why ? you have stocks and think my opinion will cause them to drop ?

[EightGear]

Are you people angry because i consider the toyota team a joke ? why ? you have stocks and think my opinion will cause them to drop ?

When God himself gives his opinion I think that risk certainly exists.

[N.O.T]

It is always a bit hard to understand why people are getting so angry over opinions which i base on what i see and perceive.

Maybe i am far too important in this sport after all despite all the jokes.... because you only bother with a persons opinions on a serious note if you consider them important enough... maybe i should run for FIA president or just for president...

[stefanvv]

Are you people angry because i consider the toyota team a joke ? why ?

I personally don't care what You consider, nor angry about it. Just prefer to spent my hobby time with something meaningful and productive.

[janvanvurpa]

You certainly have a lot of free time to waste all that time answering to a person you do not respect, that is one of the benefits of old age i guess.

Are you people angry because i consider the toyota team a joke ? why ? you have stocks and think my opinion will cause them to drop ?

Benefit of different time zone, numb-nuts.
Try to get you to either shut up and learn or just shut up is because I like and respect THE OTHER PEOPLE here..people are enthusiasts for MANY aspects of the sport and who do not routinely and constantly plague us with grandiose prattle about how bad everybody is.

[Mirek]

Are you people angry because i consider the toyota team a joke ?

No, You are the bad joke people are angry about. I wonder if You ever realize how incredibly annoying You are.

[N.O.T]

I wonder if You ever realize how incredibly annoying You are.

No i don't.

[focus206]

Why don't you all put N.O.T on your ignore list? Is that still a thing on this forum, right? So you can stop filling topics with rants and complaints on how irritating you find him...

[seb_sh]

This thread is 1/3 on topic, 1/3 off topic and 1/3 utter trash.

It would be interesting to talk about potential drivers now that Hannine is confirmed but I don't think we can stay on topic long enough. Here goes nothing :p
I made a list of what I consider potential candidates (speed + experience) who do not have binding contracts for next year (marked uncertain contracts with '?'):
Ogier?, Latvala?, Ostberg, Neuville?, Evans, Sordo, Tanak, Kubica, Camilli, Breen, Lefebvre, Protasov, Lappi, Tidemand.
Rumor is Ogier and Latvala both have contracts till the end of 2016. Neuville extended last year with Hyundai but don't know by how much, probably a year so he would also be free.

Of course there are also the rumors about Solberg, Loeb or maybe Hirvonen coming out of retirement or they could get someone "unexpected" like M-Sport did with Camilli. Also one has to take into account that they have to beat offers from the other manufacturers. The VW drivers especially, Ogier probably impossible to steal, Latvala very hard. Also it's still a bit early in the season and many things can still happen.

I would probably start by trying to get a consistent and if possible fast driver that can be a reference both for the car and the other drivers. Ogier is probably impossible to get so the next target would be Sordo or Ostberg. After that, Latvala would be the best choice but he may be hard to get. I think I would only consider Hanninen for a partial program so if Latvala signes then I'd just put one of Breen, Tidemand, Lappi or Protasov (try to sign them in that order) in a half program paired with Hanninen. If Latvala doesn't sign the next choice would be Tanak in his place.

[Mirek]

Why don't you all put N.O.T on your ignore list? Is that still a thing on this forum, right? So you can stop filling topics with rants and complaints on how irritating you find him...

The function is ruined by quotes.

[Sulland]

Why don't you all put N.O.T on your ignore list? Is that still a thing on this forum, right? So you can stop filling topics with rants and complaints on how irritating you find him...

Life is to short, done!

[stefanvv]

This thread is 1/3 on topic, 1/3 off topic and 1/3 utter trash.

It would be interesting to talk about potential drivers now that Hannine is confirmed but I don't think we can stay on topic long enough. Here goes nothing :p
I made a list of what I consider potential candidates (speed + experience) who do not have binding contracts for next year (marked uncertain contracts with '?'):
Ogier?, Latvala?, Ostberg, Neuville?, Evans, Sordo, Tanak, Kubica, Camilli, Breen, Lefebvre, Protasov, Lappi, Tidemand.
Rumor is Ogier and Latvala both have contracts till the end of 2016. Neuville extended last year with Hyundai but don't know by how much, probably a year so he would also be free.

Of course there are also the rumors about Solberg, Loeb or maybe Hirvonen coming out of retirement or they could get someone "unexpected" like M-Sport did with Camilli. Also one has to take into account that they have to beat offers from the other manufacturers. The VW drivers especially, Ogier probably impossible to steal, Latvala very hard. Also it's still a bit early in the season and many things can still happen.

I would probably start by trying to get a consistent and if possible fast driver that can be a reference both for the car and the other drivers. Ogier is probably impossible to get so the next target would be Sordo or Ostberg. After that, Latvala would be the best choice but he may be hard to get. I think I would only consider Hanninen for a partial program so if Latvala signes then I'd just put one of Breen, Tidemand, Lappi or Protasov (try to sign them in that order) in a half program paired with Hanninen. If Latvala doesn't sign the next choice would be Tanak in his place.

There are many options ahead of Makkinen and decent drivers out there, fast, consistent, young, experienced. I don't know what is Makkinen about this, but I don't want to see Hanninen & Lappi as a team. Nothing personal against each of them, they are just equal in character, except age of course.

[N.O.T]

There are many options ahead of Makkinen and decent drivers out there, fast, consistent, young, experienced. I don't know what is Makkinen about this, but I don't want to see Hanninen & Lappi as a team. Nothing personal against each of them, they are just equal in character, except age of course.

you will see Hanninen and suninnen/ketomaa possibly

[Rallyper]

NOT is having most of you guys where he wants you to be. Upset and angry and using all energy answering his comments. So pls calm down everyone. I dont mind NOT even if I banned him for a while many yrs ago.

And listen up all people. I almost met the guy in Loutraki in 2012. But only almost. Missed him by about five minutes at servicepark. Met several other nice greeks. Right Dimviii and "Asotrias".

Now let´s talk about Toyota folks.

[N.O.T]

I dont mind NOT even if I banned him for a while many yrs ago.


IT WAS YOU ALL ALONG ???

BUT... BUT.... i trusted you... i considered you my imaginary friend.... how could you ????

http://i.imgur.com/OmuL3MS.gif

[Sulland]

What do you guys know about regulations regarding the rear wing?

The Gazoo one is looking huge!

[GravelBen]

Why don't you all put N.O.T on your ignore list? Is that still a thing on this forum, right? So you can stop filling topics with rants and complaints on how irritating you find him...

I didn't know you could do that... done, thanks.

[Rallyper]

IT WAS YOU ALL ALONG ???

BUT... BUT.... i trusted you... i considered you my imaginary friend.... how could you ????

http://i.imgur.com/OmuL3MS.gif

No no no, my bad english. Only on my own messages. Ignore list. My fault. Sorry, sorry.

[stefanvv]

off topic

[N.O.T]

No no no, my bad english. Only on my own messages. Ignore list. My fault. Sorry, sorry.

aaaahhh... life is worth living once more then.

[AL14]

What the hell is going on here? LOL :D

But anyway.. Please, keep going...

http://i.imgur.com/DKJhx9l.gif?noredirect

[stefanvv]

What the hell is going on here? LOL :D

But anyway.. Please, keep going...

http://i.imgur.com/DKJhx9l.gif?noredirect

Lot of drama around Toyota come back, what did You thought;) Somehow we can swallow the Germans in the face of VW, but Japanese again, oh no, this is too much.....

[danon]

What the hell is going on here? LOL :D

But anyway.. Please, keep going...

http://s5.postimg.org/3kb2742x1/image.jpg

[Rally Power]

It seems it was an entertaining afternoon…

Seriously: the most important thing on Makinen’s Yaris tests is that he managed to make a technical structure from almost nothing and sort out a new car only 8 months after Toyoda green light.

Toyota Gazoo is now almost at the same schedule as Citroen on the ’17 car development, ahead of Hyundai and MSport. They’ve enough time to get it competitive for ’17 MC Rally and choose a strong drivers line up.

As any other real rally fan, I’m delighted to see Toyota getting to WRC’s frontline once more. Best luck to them.

[pantealex]

Toyota were testing with #2 car in Clermont-Ferrand area (France) this hole week.
No clue abot the driver(s), because Juho, Mikko and Tommi were all in Finland.
(#1 car was same time tested in Finland)
#2 car is traveling to Spain now...

[skarderud]

Its no doubt it going to be an interesting silly season before '17, lots of drivers ready to change teams, more cars availible and hopefully some New talents get the change to break in!

[itix]

Silly seasons are always interesting... Mostly speculation, granted, but still.

It always takes me a month or two before I become adjusted to who is in what team as well. Next year is going to be hell hahahaha

[stefanvv]

This one looks quite silly already, how it could be worse?

[Simmi]

This one looks quite silly already, how it could be worse?

I think it was quite a surprise to quite a few people (me included) that all the VW drivers had contracts beyond this year. I thought that basically every top driver apart from Mikkelsen would need to sign a new deal ahead of '17. But that was not the case. So I guess in that sense it could have been more silly - plus Meeke and Paddon signed early.

[stefanvv]

I think it was quite a surprise to quite a few people (me included) that all the VW drivers had contracts beyond this year. I thought that basically every top driver apart from Mikkelsen would need to sign a new deal ahead of '17. But that was not the case. So I guess in that sense it could have been more silly - plus Meeke and Paddon signed early.

I guess I'm not surprised if they did it in the meantime. Ogier is not surprise the least, Latvala I guess won't go from VW if he himself doesn't want to, obviously he doesn't and why should he? Bad first few races of the year, but is it much different from any previous one?

[bowler]

It is way too early to judge Toyota. Look back into history and see where Toyota started their first rally team. They sought the services of a Scandinavian guy to get things started and worked with Ove Andersson for many years, including after they bought out his successful operation. Then look at how Japanese companies operate and maybe you can recognise the start of something big. Irrespective of the views of some of the cynics Toyota will not allow this to fail. Allow three years for success. Everything that hyundai and vw have achieved Toyota will achieve. Great to see another giant in the WRC

[N.O.T]

It is way too early to judge Toyota. Look back into history and see where Toyota started their first rally team. They sought the services of a Scandinavian guy to get things started and worked with Ove Andersson for many years, including after they bought out his successful operation. Then look at how Japanese companies operate and maybe you can recognise the start of something big. Irrespective of the views of some of the cynics Toyota will not allow this to fail. Allow three years for success. Everything that hyundai and vw have achieved Toyota will achieve. Great to see another giant in the WRC

Application of 1980s tactics for success in 2016.... what can possibly go wrong eh?

[bowler]

I doubt Toyota will be concerned by your opinion NOT. They will care about things that matter

[noel157]

And listen up all people. I almost met the guy in Loutraki in 2012. But only almost. Missed him by about five minutes at servicepark. ".
s.

Jez, that was close. Fortune was on your side that day..... : )

[Grundo Farb]

I have (in the past) and will continue to side with NOT in this one. In my mind, building a car is not what is being debated. That's been done and that isn't the hard part, the AP4 cars being built in NZ illustrate that modifying a body shell, adapting it to use motorsport parts, adding and engine and gearbox and building suspension can be done by a lot of competent motorsport orientated car builders.

Where I think this program just doesn't feel right is the Tommi "knows best" approach. Seeing him test drive the car didn't make me think, here is a guy who trusts his team to do the right thing and is positioning it with a well thought out business plan and strategy, it made me think "he still wants to be a driver in the WRC". I just don't get the sense that there is a complete strategy in place for this. I've said it before, the WRC isn't just about building a car, its the support functions and the entire team that will make it successful - still don't get the sense that that is in place.

Is there any information out there on the team itself?

And please guys, NOT is NOT. Don't troll him, no point it just makes the thread a more unpleasant one.

[Rallyper]

However I do think Tommi has good help from Toyota in the way how business plan and strategies should be handled. And being WRC driver again isn´t for sure Tommies aim. What on earth make you think that? Just because he´s testing his little baby?

Regarding NOT I agree. This forum wouldn´t be what it is without the greek/english "labrat". ;)

[bowler]

Grundo, the issue here is that we don't know, and that we have opinions based on what is reported by people who may or may not know, and people who can look at a non comparative video and determine that something may or may not work. Whatever the short term success or not of this team, long term Toyota will not allow it to fail. We don't know what is in place, but some of us understand how the Japanese do business. This project is supported by Toyoda himself. It will not be allowed to fail. It may come out the end looking different, but they will be on them podium in 2018, if not before, and on the centre of the podium in 2019, if not before.

[seb_sh]

Where I think this program just doesn't feel right is the Tommi "knows best" approach. Seeing him test drive the car didn't make me think, here is a guy who trusts his team to do the right thing and is positioning it with a well thought out business plan and strategy, it made me think "he still wants to be a driver in the WRC". I just don't get the sense that there is a complete strategy in place for this. I've said it before, the WRC isn't just about building a car, its the support functions and the entire team that will make it successful - still don't get the sense that that is in place.


I am reserved because I simply don't know what's going on inside the project but I'm taking a wait and see approach. Regarding Tommi you can also see his actions as being close and involved with the team at every level, which is not necesarily bad. Also I'm not sure if it's a case of Tommi knows best, he has hired quite a few other test drivers and I'm not cynical enough to think he is just using Toyota money to give his friends some fun in the forest.

[Grundo Farb]

Grundo, the issue here is that we don't know, and that we have opinions based on what is reported by people who may or may not know, and people who can look at a non comparative video and determine that something may or may not work. Whatever the short term success or not of this team, long term Toyota will not allow it to fail. We don't know what is in place, but some of us understand how the Japanese do business. This project is supported by Toyoda himself. It will not be allowed to fail. It may come out the end looking different, but they will be on them podium in 2018, if not before, and on the centre of the podium in 2019, if not before.

I'm doing a project with the Japanese at the moment so I do know about them. I agree, they won't WANT to let it fail but Tommi and his set-up may not last the distance, one thing about the Japanese is they are ruthless when it comes to results.

Not sure if anyone follows yachting but the Tommi set-up reminds me of Team New Zealand under Grant Dalton. Grant won the Volvo round the world race, then headed up the Americas cup syndicate. He was great at getting sponsors and big names on board but couldn't resist being on the boat, being a grinder, calling some of the tactics etc... They lost in the final, arguably because of it. Just seems to feel similar.

And Rallyper, yes I do think that because he is testing "his" little baby.

[Lundefaret]

Tommi is one of, if not the, best test driver(s) in WRC history. He has a very clear vision of how a WRC car should perform, some of it is very easily visible in the videos and pictures that have surfaced so far.
I think it would be a great mistake if he didnt take on an active roll on the testing and developing of the car.
I see it the other way around, when things start moving in 2017, with all the rallies and logistics etc, they Toyota Gazoo will have a "problem" in that Tommi cant be as active as he is now.

[AL14]

Grundo, the issue here is that we don't know, and that we have opinions based on what is reported by people who may or may not know, and people who can look at a non comparative video and determine that something may or may not work. Whatever the short term success or not of this team, long term Toyota will not allow it to fail. We don't know what is in place, but some of us understand how the Japanese do business. This project is supported by Toyoda himself. It will not be allowed to fail. It may come out the end looking different, but they will be on them podium in 2018, if not before, and on the centre of the podium in 2019, if not before.

It doesn't sound too much coherent. Doesn'it?

[EstWRC]

found a pic of them testing in spain

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CimIj6tWsAIN7TR.jpg

[dimviii]

find a video too mate.

[EstWRC]

no problem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3YUhUApXv4

[EstWRC]

another one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBoPmzID_WQ

[stefanvv]

who is driving?

[EstWRC]

Tommi

[stefanvv]

Ah yes, now saw him at the end of 1st video. Quite angry sound of the Yaris, I like it.

[Jack4688`]

Wow that noise is unique, reminds me of some group 4/early group B stuff. Not quite sure what other than the exhaust note of a 6R4, but obviously mated the engine note of a four-cylinder motor.

[Munkvy]

Definitely liking the sound!

[Mirek]

That car on the video sounds really weird. I can't help myself but it doesn't sound right.

[danon]

The Force Awakens...

http://www.tommimakinen.net/tmr-tilat2010f.jpg

[adr17]

That car on the video sounds really weird. I can't help myself but it doesn't sound right.

was talk from the rallies committee of wrc cars not having to run catalyst in 2017 will make it sound a little louder

or traction control but that would be illegal

[Simmi]

Sounds like a Mini WRC with a sore throat.

[danon]

Tommi Mäkinen tests 1944 - 2016

https://youtu.be/BPaoOIEttcY?t=83

https://youtu.be/Y3YUhUApXv4?t=60

[sollitt]

Tommi is one of, if not the, best test driver(s) in WRC history. He has a very clear vision of how a WRC car should perform, some of it is very easily visible in the videos and pictures that have surfaced so far.
I think it would be a great mistake if he didnt take on an active roll on the testing and developing of the car.
I see it the other way around, when things start moving in 2017, with all the rallies and logistics etc, they Toyota Gazoo will have a "problem" in that Tommi cant be as active as he is now.Lunde, you're on the money here. Makinen is uniquely placed as a team principle to understand and guide technical development and it would be a waste of such a resource if he were not involved in testing.
Anyone who thinks this project will be undercooked or anything other than a full on effort doesn't know Toyota, Makinen, or rally history at all.

Rallyper, you've never been thought of in this forum as a bastion of rationality but nevertheless please refrain from putting the Greek twat on a pedestal. He may from time to time bring an element of childish humor however his propensity for insult surpasses any good and he is undeserving of your adulation.

[Grundo Farb]

Lunde, you're on the money here. Makinen is uniquely placed as a team principle to understand and guide technical development and it would be a waste of such a resource if he were not involved in testing.
Anyone who thinks this project will be undercooked or anything other than a full on effort doesn't know Toyota, Makinen, or rally history at all.


Again, it's not about Toyota WANTING to win. It's whether this team environment is the right one. People do know history, they know that Tommi had a car designed around him - great for him but Mitsubishi never won a championship and Toyota won last time with TMG.

Name the last successful team principal who was a great driver themselves, any motorsport team? (I don't count MW in this as list).

[Lundefaret]

Again, it's not about Toyota WANTING to win. It's whether this team environment is the right one. People do know history, they know that Tommi had a car designed around him - great for him but Mitsubishi never won a championship and Toyota won last time with TMG.

Name the last successful team principal who was a great driver themselves, any motorsport team? (I don't count MW in this as list).

Citroën, Guy Frequelin. Most successful team in WRC history.

Ove "Påven" Andersson. Toyota TTE (the company that became TMG.)

(To name two)

That the team principal is a former driver doesnt need to be an advantage, and can also be a disadvantage. But in Tommis case, in regards to developing the car, I personally believe its a big advantage. Toyota Gazoo doesnt have the budget of VW, that means they have to try to outsmart them. Mäkinens abilities as a test driver are unique, so this is something that can help in that matter. How Mäkinen will be as a team principal, I dont know. But from looking at the car from the current videos, its clear to see they have a certain plan. Looking forward to seeing it on the rough stuff too.

(This thing about Mäkinen having the Mitsubishi built "around him" is just as misunderstood as Loeb having the Citroën built "around him".)

[OldF]

Again, it's not about Toyota WANTING to win. It's whether this team environment is the right one. People do know history, they know that Tommi had a car designed around him - great for him but Mitsubishi never won a championship and Toyota won last time with TMG.

Name the last successful team principal who was a great driver themselves, any motorsport team? (I don't count MW in this as list).

Mitsubishi won the championship 1998

http://www.ewrc-results.com/season.php?s=1998&nat=0

http://www.juwra.com/season_1998_points.html

[Leon]

What was Lasse Lampi job at ralliart during Makinen era?

[Marcco]

I also see Makinen's direct involvement in testing as a positive thing, remember Sainz's involvement in polo's early development.

[Rallyper]

Rallyper, you've never been thought of in this forum as a bastion of rationality but nevertheless please refrain from putting the Greek twat on a pedestal. He may from time to time bring an element of childish humor however his propensity for insult surpasses any good and he is undeserving of your adulation.

Would never claim I am, neither should anyone else. I´m not putting NOT on a piedestal, only saying (like others) that he brings some salt and pepper to this forum.

Ignore him if you don´t like him.

I´m rational and make my comments after more than 50 years experience as a rallydriver/organizer/freak. Sometimes my swedish pedigree makes me a bit angry to all quotes about worthless drivers from other parts of the world. But that´s what we all do now and then.

[Grundo Farb]

Citroën, Guy Frequelin. Most successful team in WRC history.

Ove "Påven" Andersson. Toyota TTE (the company that became TMG.)

(To name two)

That the team principal is a former driver doesnt need to be an advantage, and can also be a disadvantage. But in Tommis case, in regards to developing the car, I personally believe its a big advantage. Toyota Gazoo doesnt have the budget of VW, that means they have to try to outsmart them. Mäkinens abilities as a test driver are unique, so this is something that can help in that matter. How Mäkinen will be as a team principal, I dont know. But from looking at the car from the current videos, its clear to see they have a certain plan. Looking forward to seeing it on the rough stuff too.

(This thing about Mäkinen having the Mitsubishi built "around him" is just as misunderstood as Loeb having the Citroën built "around him".)

Cool, thanks for that. Didn't know about those guys.