Toyota announces WRC plans

[OldF]

You can not do miracles within R3 regulations.

Maybe this is a precursor for something in R5, lets hope it is!

First Toyota have to manufacture 2500 cars with a 1.6 turbo engine. It would really be a zing to the current models of R5 cars.

[N.O.T]

Toyota returning to the WRC episode 2567... a few years more and they can match the FIAT joins the WRC saga...

Alpha male wolfs like VW actually do things instead of circulating gossip...

Scared little doggies just bark and produce ladyboy toys...

pfffft...

[jonkka]

Given that Toyota has history with the sport, I am prepared to give them benefit of doubt. Besides, I haven't heard anyone from Toyota say that they will return to top level of the sport. They only make a Rx-class rally car and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[AndyRAC]

I’d say it’s a good thing. Another Manufacturer in the sport – albeit a customer programme in one of the ‘lesser’ classes. They maybe the No1 car manufacturer, but they were badly burned by the F1 programme – and even now only occasionally run 2 cars in the WEC series. They are being careful about spending money. When they are ready, and conditions allow – I’m sure they’ll be back.

[Gregor-y]

Toyota returning to the WRC episode 2567... a few years more and they can match the FIAT joins the WRC saga...

Alpha male wolfs like VW actually do things instead of circulating gossip...

Scared little doggies just bark and produce ladyboy toys...

pfffft...
Don't tell me you have a problem with the R classes. If anything they're closer to a normal car than the WRC and can be better for manufacturers when it comes to image (which itself is big for sales). Look at Renault. Plus there are a lot more makers involved in those classes.

[N.O.T]

i don't have a problem with the R classes... i have a problem with people circulating rumours and jump into photoshops every time a manufacturer even remotely refers to rallying...

[Jack4688`]

I like it. It's good to dream about someone coming back to a sport you love :crazy:

As for the relevance to road cars argument goes for R3 and below, who cares? That was the argument the BRC used when switching to a front wheel drive only championship. I am completely happy for the class to exist - it has relevance as a stepping stone to the highest level of rallying. I just hate it when it suggested that people should enjoy watching those cars just because they're closer to a road car than a WRC car...

Hopefully the introduction of a RWD sports coupe will increase my interest in the R3 category instead of having to put up with watching Shitroen DS3s understeer their way round rally stages :D

[A FONDO]

Hopefully the introduction of a RWD sports coupe will increase my interest in the R3 category instead of having to put up with watching Shitroen DS3s understeer their way round rally stages :D
http://www.naturephotohub.com/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Toyota returning to the WRC episode 2567... a few years more and they can match the FIAT joins the WRC saga...

Alpha male wolfs like VW actually do things instead of circulating gossip ...
I think the R-class regulations would really appeal to Toyota's sensibilities. They clearly want to be involved in motorsports, but they don't like sinking millions of dollars into expensive programs, unless there is a direct benefit for them, like the TS030 Hybrid. Under R3, they could build the car, make it available to competitors, and leave it at that.

[Zeakiwi]

There are Toyota 86 and Toyota Yaris rally cars already on the stages.
http://youtu.be/zNa8VaOCOOY (Cusco Toyota 86 on gravel)
http://www.toyota.co.za/articles/new-to ... aler-rally (http://www.toyota.co.za/articles/new-toyota-yaris-seeks-maiden-win-on-toyota-cape-dealer-rally)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAQ5JIfi ... Nh7CyGoT2A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAQ5JIfisRI&feature=share&list=UUaUsRl_wtp78kNh7CyGoT2A) (M Young - Toyota Vitz Rs)

A quick look on most Toyota websites shows they use the 'sustainable' word quite a lot now.
Their rally activities are more likely to be about taking part rather than competing at the most expensive WRC level.

Hybrid, electric and hydrogen fuel is where Toyota's longer term plans are at.

[Zeakiwi]

Toyota 86 hybrids are in development which means they are likely to have an engine different to the current boxer engined 86 etc.


http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-re ... nced_stage (http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-news/toyota_86_hybrid_development_reaches_advanced_stag e)

[Zeakiwi]

I think this news release by Toyota explains where Toyota's priorities are at for the present time.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/20/3 ... del-by.htm (http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/20/3766412/toyota-vows-fuel-cell-model-by.htm)

[Mirek]

The link doesn't work.

[focus206]

The link doesn't work.

Add a "L" at the end of the link, to make it be .html and it works ;)

[Mirek]

Thanks

[Motorsportfun]

According to Rally Emotion magazine's website, it looks like Toyota will prepare its 2015-WRC assault with an Italian team! Could Toyota's return be an Italian job? :D

http://www.rallyemotion.it/7813_wrc-tea ... di-toyota/ (http://www.rallyemotion.it/7813_wrc-team-italiano-dietro-il-ritorno-di-toyota/)

[Barreis]

Hardly. That site already had some SF news...

[Andre Oliveira]

Grifone? :angryfire

[Jack4688`]

I find that hard to believe. I don't know what kind of capacity Toyota Motorsport GmbH has but surely Toyota would not sub out the development of an official WRC project???

[EightGear]

I find that hard to believe. I don't know what kind of capacity Toyota Motorsport GmbH has but surely Toyota would not sub out the development of an official WRC project???

Agree 100%.

[focus206]

I've read that the rumour started during Monza Rally Show, and that the Italian team would probably be ProCar...
http://www.rally.it/il-ritorno-di-toyot ... la-procar/ (http://www.rally.it/il-ritorno-di-toyota-sulle-tracce-del-preparatore-italiano-incaricato-probabile-la-procar/)
I also find it hard to believe though.

[Mirek]

Already two years a go there were rumors that Toyota would start with supplying cars for private teams before entering itself.

[N.O.T]

when was the last time an italian site had correct information ?

[AndyRAC]

I find that hard to believe. I don't know what kind of capacity Toyota Motorsport GmbH has but surely Toyota would not sub out the development of an official WRC project???

Not likely; but their WEC programme uses Oreca as well as their own people/ facilities.

[Motorsportfun]

I find that hard to believe. I don't know what kind of capacity Toyota Motorsport GmbH has but surely Toyota would not sub out the development of an official WRC project???

Seems they want just a kind of partner. Maybe their factory can't fulfill both programmes (and customers activities too), so they're thinkin to do part of the work in joint-venture with an external structure... just like in WEC way with French Oreca, as AndyRAC well said.

[Andre Oliveira]

Toyota with Motorsport Italia? So... Toyota gives up WRC before entering :confused:

[Barreis]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=535456169903624&set=a.431959440253298.1073741830.431404290308813&type=1&theater)

[er88]

WTF is actually going on here?? Surely toyota wouldn't let a mediocre italian firm head up a wrc programme for them? I struggle to believe this...

[JAM]

Toyota with Motorsport Itália is a good way of not entering on the WRC :D

[mousti]

We've seen how it went with the Mini JCW WRC :p

[Andre Oliveira]

And the crap that the team made with Armindo Araújo :mad:

[Motorsportfun]

So, Italian rumour was not that crazy... :D

[ilsit]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/wrc/t ... nstruction (http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/wrc/toyota-yaris-world-rally-car-under-construction)

Could we finally see the return of Toyota? :bounce:

[PLuto]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/wrc/toyota-yaris-world-rally-car-under-construction

Could we finally see the return of Toyota? :bounce:

One year old info... (http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php?cl=14053 or http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php?cl=13553)

[makinen_fan]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111749

Toyota's return to the World Rally Championship has taken a step closer with the news that it will build a Yaris World Rally Car next year.

The Japanese firm's Cologne-based motorsport arm TMG confirmed the Yaris WRC would be up and running in 2014.

A company spokesman said: "From TMG, we are very much interested in coming back to the World Rally Championship.

"We start testing the Yaris World Rally Car next year, running it with our 1.6-litre turbo engine.

"This will be a pretty low-key programme, run in order for us to gain experience of the car and to refresh and build our knowledge base on the technical side of running a World Rally Car."

The car is believed to be in build at the moment but there is no firm decision on a competition programme.

Pascal Vasselon, technical director of Toyota's LMP1 operation, said: "We have not decided on the time of our WRC entry."

Didier Auriol, Toyota, Safari WRC 1998
The Toyota spokesman added that while there had been no formal green light for a WRC return, it was "reasonable" to say it would go ahead.

"The decision ultimate lies with Japan and, at the moment, there is no concrete request or fixed plan, but it is something we hope will happen.

"To say this is on the horizon seems reasonable."

Toyota last competed in the WRC's top flight in 1999, with the Corolla WRC (pictured).

It has recently returned at a class level with the Yaris R1, while an R3-based GT86 CS-R3 will arrive in 2015.

[RS]

It is really good news that manufacturers are becoming interested in WRC again, but why? Is it because the new regulations are cheaper, or that it is a much cheaper global sport than F1? It can't be because the promotion or visibility of the series is good!

[Rallyper]

WRC has gone from expensive and rare one offs in Gr B to standard world cars with 1,6 litre engines. Which most of the brands has as model. No rocket science needed to have a ground to build on. The formula seems to work in right direction.

[er88]

It is really good news that manufacturers are becoming interested in WRC again, but why? Is it because the new regulations are cheaper, or that it is a much cheaper global sport than F1? It can't be because the promotion or visibility of the series is good!

Makes you wonder what WRC could potentially be like with quality exposure and live tv if manufacturers are still interested in joining as things are now...! WRC is a sleeping giant help back by the incompetent shambles that is the fia :angryfire

[PLuto]

WRC is a sleeping giant help back by the incompetent shambles that is the fia :angryfire

And dont forget Red Bull Media House, which are still much worse than in last years terrible NOS...

[er88]

WRC is a sleeping giant help back by the incompetent shambles that is the fia :angryfire

And dont forget Red Bull Media House, which are still much worse than in last years terrible NOS...

Yeah absolutely. I expected red bull media house to be alot better than they have been so far.

So it almost seems Toyota's plan is to let TMG develop the yaris and get it up and running on the stages, then if the car has potential and is pretty competitive out of the blocks Toyota will become involved fully and plunge in money? And if the car is terrible Toyota will cut all ties and not bother with manufacturer support or what :confused: ? Toyota seem really wary of new motorsport ventures after F1 disaster...

[Rallyper]

If you have selfconfidence you already know if car is good enough. It just costs a certain amount of money.

[Sulland]

Confused; is there a plan with the Italians or not?
If I was the boss of TMG I would try to buy out 2-3 top guys from VW Motorsport, they have proved themselves!!

[Motorsportfun]

Confused; is there a plan with the Italians or not?
If I was the boss of TMG I would try to buy out 2-3 top guys from VW Motorsport, they have proved themselves!!

Obviously there's a plan, but first-step is build the car. Then development will be done in co-operation with Motorsport Italia. That's what was written by Rally Emotion magazine. Hope will be soon delivered to my newsagent, as I could look if there's more news about that...

[Andre Oliveira]

Carlos Barbosa told autosport.pt: Toyota are in conversations with Jean Todt.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Conversations about what?

[KiwiWRCfan]

Asia Pacific Rally Championship have announced new eligibility rules and mention potential under new criteria for Toyota Yaris (Vitz) to be built into R3 equivalent. http://fiaaprc.com/2013/12/aprc-opens-door-cars-2014/

[Simmi]

A bit more on the Toyota WRC project here.

First test kilometres set to be this year - with Stephane Sarrazin at the wheel.

But no confirmed entry - just high interest and potentially nothing until 2017!

http://www.motorsport-total.com/rallye/ ... 12402.html (http://www.motorsport-total.com/rallye/news/2014/01/toyota-und-die-wrc-planung-laeuft-entscheidung-offen-14012402.html)

Talk about dragging it out.

[AndyRAC]

Apart from Sarrazin testing, which I expected him to do, not really any solid 'news'.
Are they waiting for rules/ regs changes? Or, is it on hold until the WEC and/ or Le Mans win - which isn't certain either. The F1 programme burnt them badly; and spending big money is a no/ no. They almost competing with one arm tied behind their back.

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112372 no Toyota in the WRC until 2017 at least....bummer

[Rallyper]

Well, that should mean we could see Toyota training logistics in some WRC or ERC-events from 2015 and on? They also have to do testing with current prototype on some events in the years before, wouldn´t they?

[Andre Oliveira]

Toyota test video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22LFPyyT5to

[Mirek]

That certainly look and sound like it has been tested for some time already :)

[Mintexmemory]

Who is the Driver?

[Sulland]

That certainly look and sound like it has been tested for some time already :)

And for being a pimped Yaris R1 that is not bad!!

[Motorsportfun]

HD footage by Rally Emotion magazine https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152235179558808

[dimviii]

more please!!

[dimviii]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22LFPyyT5to

[Doon]

I thought Toyota said no entry to the WRC before 2017? It seems a little strange that they would spend over 2.5 years to develop a car, no? Surley if they have a car built now, it could be ready for 2016 or even 2015.

I know there are major rule changes for '17, but they don't know what they are yet, so why build a car which is probably be aligned with current regs (well, what else?) and never run it in competition?

[jbmarcus21]

The Story begins for Toyota http://planetemarcus.com/toyota-motorsport-en-essais-avec-sa-yaris-wrc/

[Fly]

I read somewhere Sarrazin was one of the two test drivers. Don't remember the other name...

jbmarcus21 was fast. Bravo ;)

Lindholm is the second test driver.

[manthey]

I thought Toyota said no entry to the WRC before 2017? It seems a little strange that they would spend over 2.5 years to develop a car, no? Surley if they have a car built now, it could be ready for 2016 or even 2015.

I know there are major rule changes for '17, but they don't know what they are yet, so why build a car which is probably be aligned with current regs (well, what else?) and never run it in competition?

maybe some spot entries in 2016 and then full wrc assault in 2017

another hypothesis could be that 2017 rule changes will be postponed and toyota had some "insider" confirmation by Fia or asked for that kind of change

[Motorsportfun]

It's an independent project right now, Toyota Board is not involved at the moment. But there's a chance to see this Yaris in some WRC events in 2015, run by Motorsport Italia (as predicted last november...).

http://www.rallyemotion.it/8886_wrc-primo-test-toyota-nel-2015-debutto-gara/

[AndyRAC]

I thought Toyota said no entry to the WRC before 2017? It seems a little strange that they would spend over 2.5 years to develop a car, no? Surley if they have a car built now, it could be ready for 2016 or even 2015.

I know there are major rule changes for '17, but they don't know what they are yet, so why build a car which is probably be aligned with current regs (well, what else?) and never run it in competition?

I think they're concentrating on the WEC with the new TS040; and I think that's a 3 year programme. The failed F1 programme left them badly burned - so are careful about spending too much on Motorsport programmes.
They'll return when they're ready and the regs suit - particularly hybrids.

[christy but]

sounds a bit like the vw wrc so it cant be too far off being a wrc

[AMSS]

sounds a bit like the vw wrc so it cant be too far off being a wrc

Yes it`s called independent but Toyota funded, the first tests must have been very secret since no one seems to have known about it, this was not the first test that now "leaked" to the media...

[lewalcindor]

Yes it`s called independent but Toyota funded, the first tests must have been very secret since no one seems to have known about it, this was not the first test that now "leaked" to the media...

Toyota testing their new WRC car behind closed doors? Sounds about right, since that's exactly what they did with the Group A Celica GT-Four.

[itix]

maybe some spot entries in 2016 and then full wrc assault in 2017

another hypothesis could be that 2017 rule changes will be postponed and toyota had some "insider" confirmation by Fia or asked for that kind of change

I can agree with that... Why develop a car now that will be redundant anyway when the new rules comes?
I hope they will enter in -16 or maybe even late -15.

Don't know if anyone has seen it but here is a video and autosport.com has an article today woith lots of high-res photos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22LFPyyT5to

[Mirek]

Already two years a go there were rumors that Toyota would come first as a supplier of private cars. It might be like that. They can enter in 2015 with private teams but wait for 2017 with manufacturer entry.

[Rally Power]

Already two years a go there were rumors that Toyota would come first as a supplier of private cars. It might be like that. They can enter in 2015 with private teams but wait for 2017 with manufacturer entry.

I doubt they'll use private teams instead of a full manu entry.

We can't forget the global automotive leadership fight between Toyota and VW (and GM).

Any sort of direct confrontation between these giants will only be possible with equivalent use of force and means.

All these back and forward Toyota wrc steps can be somehow linked with the unusual role of TMG. Other manus uses their motorsport departments to undertake precise programs (previously sanctioned by their marketing structure).

Apart the Le Mans/WEC participation, TMG seems to be a sort of motorsport r&d center with autonomy to undertake different projects that later could have, or not, superior approval.

That's why Italia Motorsport involvement seems to be merely instrumental (if not, the drivers line up should have be different and TMG stickers wouldn't be visible).

At the end let's hope that this Yaris test timing makes possible a 2015 manu entry, if there's a quick decision from Toyota administration.

[A FONDO]

..or they are waiting for the new regulations when WRC cars will be Toyota Aygo, Citroen C1 etc. :hmph: :D

[makinen_fan]

I think this extended video was not posted before. Sound really nice!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2CxfhWsrOs

[Rallyper]

I think this extended video was not posted before. Sound really nice!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2CxfhWsrOs

Icredible sound. More like the Polos´ and a good reminder of what´s coming from Toyota...

[Sulland]

FIA will keep Toyota in the loop on Car regulations, so they can build the right car;
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113089

[AndyRAC]

They launched the new TS040 this morning; with nearly 1000BHP of combined hybrid/ petrol engine power.

And the 'hybrid' part is the important bit - I personally think, if the 2017 regs allow hybrids, they'll join. If not, they won't. By 2017, a 1.6T/ 1.4T petrol engine is hardly cutting edge.
Why leave a series which encourages hybrids and new technology to join the WRC?

[Doon]

If the FIA introduce rules for hybrid cars in 2017 cost will esculate and not be reduced.

R5 is the way forward. By 2017 4 or 5 manufacturers will have built cars, and we'd have entry lists full of top flight cars.

They just need to 'beef' up the sound, bit more power, bit more sideways for the fans and it's a winning formula.

[Mirek]

R5 is the way forward. By 2017 4 or 5 manufacturers will have built cars, and we'd have entry lists full of top flight cars.

I'm not convinced about that. So far the cars showed quite bad reliability even in much shorter events than WRC ones. The cars and parts are relatively cheap but the durability of parts is much worse than with S2000.


They just need to 'beef' up the sound, bit more power, bit more sideways for the fans and it's a winning formula.

That don't come without further rise of cost.

[itix]

If the FIA introduce rules for hybrid cars in 2017 cost will esculate and not be reduced.

R5 is the way forward. By 2017 4 or 5 manufacturers will have built cars, and we'd have entry lists full of top flight cars.

They just need to 'beef' up the sound, bit more power, bit more sideways for the fans and it's a winning formula.

I agree with that... complication and cost is not what rally cars need right now. The only reason F1 can pull it off is because it is a much more popular sport :(

Maybe if Citroën stays, msport, toyota, hyudai and hitlerwagen get a good mix of drivers and liven up the championship battle with lots of close fights, the sport will grow in popularity, costs can be justified and ~2025 rules will include hybrids, who knows?

[Karukera]

Maybe if Citroën stays, msport, toyota, hyudai and hitlerwagen get a good mix of drivers and liven up the championship battle with lots of close fights, the sport will grow in popularity, costs can be justified and ~2025 rules will include hybrids, who knows?

Welcome aboard.
You will be flamed for a part of that post although true during a certain period of time.

Like Doon suggests, R5 could be one of the ways forward if FIA decides so. Reliability issues will be seriously addressed with commitment.

[Mirek]

Like Doon suggests, R5 could be one of the ways forward if FIA decides so. Reliability issues will be seriously addressed with commitment.

First that would definitely rise cost. Second point is that it's questionable if that can be successful. R5 rules are based on using plenty of stock parts which won't be developed along with the tailor-made ones.

[Karukera]

We should be discussing this in the 'WRC Foresight' thread.
Costs would inevitably grow with any non existing or sub category becoming a big FIA series.
The actual question is what do they want to do with the sport ? how far in the cost vs performance vs go Green compromise ?

I reckon times will change quickly and radically.

[Mirek]

We should be discussing this in the 'WRC Foresight' thread.
Costs would inevitably grow with any non existing or sub category becoming a big FIA series.
The actual question is what do they want to do with the sport ? how far in the cost vs performance vs go Green compromise ?

I reckon times will change quickly and radically.

In my opinion speaking about cutting cost by technical rules for manufacturer teams has no sense. They will always spend all the money they are given by the management. When VW or Hyundai are given 100 million Euro they will spend it no matter what the rules are. If they would like to keep cost down they can start with not bringing a whole factory together with them to every event...

[Rallyper]

I guess MIrek has a good point. Nothing is automatic. And rules built on merchandises might not be the right way... But todays WRC in some way revised would be best. In which way I´m not the man to say.

[jonkka]

In my opinion speaking about cutting cost by technical rules for manufacturer teams has no sense. They will always spend all the money they are given by the management. When VW or Hyundai are given 100 million Euro they will spend it no matter what the rules are. If they would like to keep cost down they can start with not bringing a whole factory together with them to every event...

It makes sense if you remember that for a manufacturer, the reason to participate is to advertise and market their products, not to develop cars or technology. If WRC would be competed in horse drawn wagons, they would still spend their whole budget. So, when manufacturer says "lower the costs", he means "I want to spend bigger portion of my budget on VIP catering and T-shirts with our company slogan".

[mejias307]

Hi there, has anyone actualy read the news story who is mentioned in the first post yet?

[Zeakiwi]

You would have to wonder when it is time to consider a spaceframe WRC vehicle specification (silhouette/skin) like the group s that was planned.

Nascar, V8 Supercars and a few other classes are spaceframe vehicles. The theory is it is less expensive to repair a spaceframe vehicle than a pressed monocoque steel shell.
i.e The skin/ silhouette and parts are removed and the steel tubing is cut out and repaired or replaced.

If the spaceframe is built to a similar dimension - the same suspension, brakes steering parts etc can be used across brands. Each manufacturer has their own engine so the competition is still about engine build, crew -drivers/ mechanics and setup for performance and reliability.etc

[Sulland]

Cool of Makinen to make a GT-86 WRC concept car, so: pls Toyota use that instead of the tiny Yaris. Looks so much like ra racecar!!

would be interessting to hear from a drivers perspective on the two cars!

[RS]

I find the Toyota situation weird, they don't want to work with their own TTE so instead they team up with Makinen who has no real experience in this field?

What is really going on? Is either project "official" or neither?

[manthey]

Toyora testing in Italy this week

[Rally Power]

TMG test a lot in Italy. Do they have a local team support (Procar, Italia Motorsport, etc) like it was rumored at the beginning of the year?

[Rallyper]

Is the GT-86 a 4WD?

[N.O.T]

no

[Rally Power]

Is the GT-86 a 4WD?

TMG (Toyota Motorsport Group (exTTE)) GT86 is rwd, due to get FIA R3 homologation.

TMR (Tommi Makinen Racing) GT86 is a 4wd prototype ordered by Gazoo Racing (one of the Toyota's motorsport divisons) for exhibition purposes.

[pantealex]

TMR (Tommi Makinen Racing) GT86 is a 4wd prototype ordered by Gazoo Racing (one of the Toyota's motorsport divisons) for exhibition purposes.

Tommi´s car has Subaru R4 technic and original base car was Subaru BRZ. (same car as GT86)

[manthey]

TMG test a lot in Italy. Do they have a local team support (Procar, Italia Motorsport, etc) like it was rumored at the beginning of the year?

who where in the test-areas could help us... anyone noted also trucks not TMG marked?

[rallyfiend]

who where in the test-areas could help us... anyone noted also trucks not TMG marked?

Motorsport Italia is their service provider for running the cars and the testing.

[Rallyper]

Tommi´s car has Subaru R4 technic and original base car was Subaru BRZ. (same car as GT86)

Confirmed my suspicion. Looked like it ran away too fast for an RWD-car on Tommies test run in Japan.

[manthey]

Motorsport Italia is their service provider for running the cars and the testing.

thanks

[HarriK]

was this here yet:
https://translate.google.fi/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.emotorsport.se%2Fnyheter.php%3F in%3D2%26nyhets_id%3D9856&edit-text=

[Rallyper]

Can anyone tell why Toyota plans to return at first in 2017? Having more ambitious plans than even VW had? Or what?

[Mirek]

I have no idea why but year 2017 has been communicated already more than a year a go but somehow nobody wanted to believe.

[dodge33cymru]

Will be a real pity if the Yaris never gets driven competitively; looks really good in my opinion and would be great to see more of it.

[stefanvv]

Probably Toyota Japan was not sure they want to be involved on the highest level again. May be not with current WRC car specs anyway.

[EightGear]

According to autosport.com there is a big possibility they will announce their entry in WRC in the first 3 months of 2015.

[Rallyper]

The car could easily be ready in 2016 one could think. One year to test and get car ready should be enough.

[PLuto]

According to autosport.com there is a big possibility they will announce their entry in WRC in the first 3 months of 2015.

It is no surprise as japanese "working year" is quite different. Also Subaru was confirming their projects during last year around March, if I am correct.

[janvanvurpa]

Thread started:
8th August 2010, 15:45

End of 2014 and we're still holding our breath that the announcement might occur in 2015...

Got to get all the details right..

I guess.

Is this the longest running thread in history?

WAIT we have one going on even longer--and much better:
http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?4,24930




Anders Green (http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/profile.php?4,125) [ PM (http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/pm.php?4,page=send,message_id=24930) ]
Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here! (http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?4,24930,24930#msg-24930)
March 25, 2009 02:55PM

Registered: 03/30/2006
Posts: 1,306


Guess what it is? http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/mods/smileys/images/smilie5.gif

[skarderud]

Some Twitter says that toyota can do wrc2 with the yaris?
Is "rrc" still possible?

[Mirek]

Yes

[PLuto]

Toyota will not do WRC2 this year. They will also not start with WRC this year. Their project in WRC is still very uncertain and car is still far from being competitive...

[RICARDO75]

Some Twitter says that toyota can do wrc2 with the yaris?
Is "rrc" still possible?


Yes

I'm not so sure about that.
Homologation for S2000 1.6 T was prohibited or stayed as an option, from January 2014?
The last to be approved was Polo S2000 1.6 T.

[Mirek]

Ah, ok. I understood the question in a wrong way. You are right that homologation of Yaris RRC is not possible although RRC are still eligible to take part in WRC2.

[Jack4688`]

I'm not so sure about that.
Homologation for S2000 1.6 T was prohibited or stayed as an option, from January 2014?
The last to be approved was Polo S2000 1.6 T.

Is that the South African Polo S2000 or a version of the WRC car that was homologated by default i.e. same as the DS3 RRC, Fiesta RRC and Mini SPC?

[Mirek]

South African Polo S2000 is regionally homologated car. Polo RRC homologated as a part of WRC homologation has never been used in any rally. It has been tested though. Some photos were posted here on the forum but it was a long time a go.

[RICARDO75]

Polo S2000 1.6T
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--OTT-Pcf694/UFu32DFj6oI/AAAAAAAAZNQ/2P0ja-omKSI/s1600/116789x505a24813+(1).jpg

The RRC version (S2000 1.6 T) of Polo is homologated since January 2013.
Never competed but it is homologated.

Volkswagen
A 5744 POLO R WRC – 1'984.3 x 1.7 = 3'373.3cc Début d'Homol. 01.01.2013 Fin : 2020
********************
01.01.2013 100/01 KSR SUPER 2000 1.6 TURBO

[Jack4688`]

Thought so, thanks for the clarification guys :)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Toyota will be returning to the WRC in 2017. Press event held on Friday.

[janvanvurpa]

Wow! So soon! Only 7 years after this thread began...I can hardly wait....

fap-fap-fap-fap-fap-fap-fap-fap-fap-fap-fap-fap-fap-fap-:arrows:

[GigiGalliNo1]

"The leading Japanese automaker will make a formal announcement on the matter Friday at a Tokyo press conference for its motor sports activities".

[Zeakiwi]

What happens to the works VW Polo WRC cars when they get old? Do they get parked next to the old Dakar Touaregs in the museum?

[6789]

Really looking forward to this announcement. Hopefully it's a positive one for the WRC

[Fast Eddie WRC]

News in Japan Times: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/01/27/business/first-foray-18-years-toyota-join-2017-world-rally-championship/#.VMdxCf6sU9D

Live on Friday: http://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/detail/5285903/

[GigiGalliNo1]

What happens to the works VW Polo WRC cars when they get old? Do they get parked next to the old Dakar Touaregs in the museum?

Correct

But there were a few Touaregs at this years Dakar...

[vino_93]

no there weren't.
Only private Touareg I can remember was for Henrard some years ago.

[Jack4688`]

I just hope to God that it'll be with a more interesting car than that Yaris!

[N.O.T]

I just hope to God that it'll be with a more interesting car than that Yaris!

like?

[Jack4688`]

In a perfect world the GT86 but anything bigger than the Yaris will be an improvement, even the Auris! I suppose it depends on what way the next WRC regulations are going to go.

[Ifox95]

Was that s2000 1.6t ever considered for customer use ?
Will it ever do a rally?

[dodge33cymru]

Highly doubt it, especially with RRC cars becoming redundant at international level from next year.

I hope we do get to see the Yaris rally, I think the test car looks great; just a slight pity it won't be in 2016.

[Mirek]

Was that s2000 1.6t ever considered for customer use ?
Will it ever do a rally?

The homologation process of WRC car was changed. S2000 1.6T is no longer part of it. New S2000 1.6T can't be homologated anymore.

[raybak]

maybe a Prius so the tree huggers can enjoy.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

WRC Yaris might not look too bad...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMzY-rl1pL8

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8d9D2VCQAAeTGJ.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8d25Y7CEAAfnz0.jpg:large

[stefanvv]

WRC Yaris might not look too bad...https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8d9D2VCQAAeTGJ.jpg:large



The intercooler on the bottom like the old WRC cars. I guess there is not much space under the short bonnet

[Eli]

won't it have a number 9, hyundai has a number 7 already, unless by the time they join Abu Dhabi Citroen will leave

[EightGear]

This is probably a render from a long time ago which you are all taking way too seriusly. ;)

[stefanvv]

Probably You're right, I see some "real" pictures on google with different mechanics

[AndyRAC]

And Castrol livery - TMG's current sponsor is Total. Though maybe Toyota in Japan will run the WRC programme??

[tommeke_B]

Sure TMG (based in Köln) will be doing it. There have been job offers on TMG site for quite some time. They were very specific about rallying, like the one below. ;)

http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/images/tmg/Design_Engineer_Suspension_20141022.pdf

[PLuto]

Italian and german developing teams are closely cooperating. But finish one, as I know, doesnt cooperate so much...

[dimviii]

Toyota Europe ‏@toyota_europe 28 Ιαν
Interested in Toyota's Motorsports plans for 2015? Live webcast on Jan 30th 05:00AM CET http://ow.ly/I4Ux0

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8cA09bCYAAgyXu.jpg

[Rallyper]

Anyone crazy enough going up early to watch live? I might be up because crazy enough... :p

[Jack4688`]

I can fit that thing in my pocket

This is more like it:

[Rallyper]

Now it´s official - toyota to return to wrc in 2017. Paying tribute to bjorn waldegard and rally finland.

[Rallyper]

No sponsor stickers on car (only small michelin). It will be Yaris.

[dimviii]

http://planetemarcus.com/toyota-motorsport-officialise-son-retour-pour-la-saison-wrc-2017/

http://planetemarcus.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/toyota-annonce-2017/6434.jpg


Camilli among test drivers
http://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/detail/5736875#.VMsLvv7b3vA.facebook

[Dug83]

It looks even worse than I remember!!!

The rear wheel arches look ridiculous.

[tommeke_B]

So after almost 5 years this topic makes sense. :p

The car doesn't look the best but it's the results that matter... ;)

[GigiGalliNo1]

http://irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00007879&10

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Looks too simple like 2012 Polo WRC

[J4MIE]

Pleased to hear the announcement, 2017 is a long way away and who knows what the WRC will look like by then but I am optimistic :up:

So..... How long till Rally Japan returns to the WRC now? ;)

[AndyRAC]

Toyota are always welcome back in the WRC - a shame the Yaris is the car chosen; looks awful.

[thuGG]

For me it's the ugliest of all current cars.

[dodge33cymru]

Personally I think it looks great; interesting this morning for them to confirm the Yaris and to not mention hybrids, which bodes well for 2017 in my book.

If you don't like the look of the current one, I wouldn't worry too much; they'll have a new model out by then I would think.

[AL14]

Does a more little car have differences in performance than a bigger one? (speaking about car of the same group of course)

[N.O.T]

2 years is far far away... many things can be different by then, it is good another serious car manufacturer joins the sport.

[Bruce D]

Still very closely based on the one used in South Africa. http://www.rallyworld.net/images/morfeoshow/2014_bela_be-4611/big/123.JPG

[turves]

The rear wheel arches look ridiculous.

Maybe its the same person that designed the Mitsubishi from around 2004/5 era

[jonkka]

Maybe its the same person that designed the Mitsubishi from around 2004/5 era

I don't know what Mario Fornaris is doing at the moment. Also, I am not sure it was he who designed the bodyshell of Mitsubishi WRC04...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Full info: http://blog.toyota.co.uk/toyota-wrc-2017-return

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFQ8wEmawx0

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8k6sEgIQAArzIR.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8knvuPCEAAsnz0.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8leWX7CcAIq8aH.jpg:large

[EightGear]

VW's welcome video to Toyota: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd76Spbwtmg&feature=youtu.be

Lol @ Luis Moya.

[A FONDO]

this is the first of the new generation rally cars where I like the road car more than the bodykit. when saying "like" I mean I can survive 0,7 seconds more before I move my eyes to wherever else.

Anyway, more manufacturers is always better for the sport.

[Jack4688`]

As I see it there are two possible ways there can be a positive outcome from this. I mean purely in terms of the form of the car, the fact that they are back is positive and that is not in question.

a) The 2017 rules will call for larger cars. Whatever model it is, something that is bigger than the current Yaris will be an improvement. As I recall Toyota had to get special dispensation from the FIA in order to use this current Yaris under the current rules, but I don't quite remember as it was about the time of the Wall Street crash that this thread started.

But unlikely to be anything other than a Yaris otherwise why would they have launched their return with the Yaris and said that they will return with the Yaris if it turned out to be the Auris/Corolla/GT86/Prius/Land Cruiser or whatever other options they have....

b) By the time they make their return surely this generation of Yaris will be replaced and hopefully by a much better looking, larger model. Given that it is smaller than it's main rivals and they also sell the Aygo there must be justification for the Yaris MkIV to be a much bigger car? This is the more likely outcome as no one directly involved in the WRC seems to recognise what is actually wrong with the sport - not a lot in my opinion but these shopping trolley technical regs are a big part of it!

[N.O.T]

You bother too much with stupid things like how the car looks ects...

if the car is competitive we are going to like it.

[EightGear]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=hNBBhrcBY6w&app=desktop

[Jack4688`]

You bother too much with stupid things like how the car looks ects...

if the car is competitive we are going to like it.

I can't find simple pleasures like you, like how an ugly car can be beautiful if it is fast.

[Franky]

I can't find simple pleasures like you, like how an ugly car can be beautiful if it is fast.

IF it's seriously fast, you won't be able to see it long enough to register the lack of beauty

[Barreis]

Sarrazin behind the wheel...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117508

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Full Toyota press conference replay: WRC info from 16:40 on ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh280JVaakY&app=desktop

[Fast Eddie WRC]

For me it's the ugliest of all current cars.

Remember the car pictured on the launch appears to be in gravel spec. The car, like all rally cars, will look much better lowered in tarmac spec. Check the test videos to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy59rYU85kU

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/O5dfCJcMFfg/maxresdefault.jpg

[giu canbera]

Doubt about the cars...
"2017 WRC plans" are to have "segment-D cars only" or current segment-B and segment-D cars together?
I know the big picture is all about competition, speed and bigger marketing...but It would be weird to watch "Nascar" cars racing WRC, like Toyota's Camry or VW's Passat =P

[focus206]

Doubt about the cars...
"2017 WRC plans" are to have "segment-D cars only" or current segment-B and segment-D cars together?
I know the big picture is all about competition, speed and bigger marketing...but It would be weird to watch "Nascar" cars racing WRC, like Toyota's Camry or VW's Passat =P

segments B, C and D

[Mirek]

Remember the car pictured on the launch appears to be in gravel spec. The car, like all rally cars, will look much better lowered in tarmac spec. Check the test videos to see.

The car is ugly as hell both on asphalt or gravel. Let's not pretend the car is nice just because we are happy they come...

[tommeke_B]

The car is ugly as hell both on asphalt or gravel. Let's not pretend the car is nice just because we are happy they come...

For me it's not much worse than the current i20... With some nice design it shouldn't be too bad.

[stefanvv]

Ugly, not ugly, what of it. It's great a Japan manufacturer returns to WRC, especially Toyota. WRC cars are not beauty contest anyway, if it was so, they'd be bigger.

[EightGear]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/30/fda08549182c7d34e8e88dcbfd329b59.jpg

I quite like it from that angle. I'm sure it will change a lot untill 2017.

[Eli]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/30/fda08549182c7d34e8e88dcbfd329b59.jpg

I quite like it from that angle. I'm sure it will change a lot untill 2017.

depends when they'll show the next generation.

[A FONDO]

http://cs624923.vk.me/v624923976/1a05a/OKj-srujvTY.jpg

http://cs623916.vk.me/v623916756/1ad31/SOsNTNaMbys.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The car is ugly as hell both on asphalt or gravel. Let's not pretend the car is nice just because we are happy they come...

Your beloved Skoda's didnt always look so pretty either... ;)

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2c2oxDWeSVw/maxresdefault.jpg

http://www.ianhardy.net/gallery/main.php/d/2888-2/Christmas_stages_2004_0435.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

This wasn't great either...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-lkgQUGeBZ_g/Uof82b9a-hI/AAAAAAAAAyk/F4n7xS-BBRg/s1600/bku2.jpg

[Allyc85]

Brilliant for the WRC to have such a major manufacturer involved again!

Can we take it that as they have announced the Yaris that the 2017 regulations will be very close to what we have now?

[GigiGalliNo1]

This wasn't great either...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-lkgQUGeBZ_g/Uof82b9a-hI/AAAAAAAAAyk/F4n7xS-BBRg/s1600/bku2.jpg

Evo 7 Makinen WRC version was the best... but this ^^^ is nice too :D

[Simmi]

Honestly any works WRC is beautiful to me. I'd take a field full of ugly WRCs if we get great action and competition.


And I actually have a soft spot for that Lancer above. There was one running at Rally GB in the national event recently. Very distinctive.

[Mirek]

Your beloved Skoda's didnt always look so pretty either... ;)

I don't know what You are trying to prove. I spoke about Toyota Yaris and not about any other car.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I don't know what You are trying to prove. I spoke about Toyota Yaris and not about any other car.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... it doesnt matter what a rally car looks like and there have been many 'ugly' ones before..

And the Yaris does look better in tarmac spec than gravel, where all rally cars look bad.

[AndyRAC]

I liked that Lancer WRC, quite 'odd' looking, but it looks like a Rally car, and sounded quite different. I also thought the Lancer III & VI were the nicest looking of the Lancers - and all had that 'Mitsubishi' sound.


Anyway, they have 2 seasons of testing & development before entering. VW used 2012 as a test, while also using the Fabia S2000 ....Should they build a R5 version, and use it on selected WRC, ERC, etc events. Or will they just rock up at Monte (provided Monte is the 1st round...) in 2017 with a brand new car? It's going to be interesting.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Did Toyota reveal if they will be doing selected events in 2016 ?

'EDIT: 'It remains possible the Yaris could run in the 2016 WRC, but a more likely scenario would be delivering the car to coincide with the new technical regulations in 2017.'

[Muchonen]

About ugly cars, do we all forget about 307? It's always good to see new manufacture and imo it's not that bad.

[AL14]

Who care if it's ugly?
It has to be a proper rally car that can challenge VW. The rest are details.

[Jack4688`]

When we're talking about a spectator sport I don't see how anyone could not care if it's ugly. Aesthetics are very much an important part of the appeal of a sport like this.

If WRC turned into a championship made up entirely of dull rallies with a lack of exciting corners/stretches of road, ugly cars that have shrunk way too much in recent years and that sounded worse than most road cars then simply the closeness of times on a leaderboard would not be enough to keep me interested - that's even if close competition and unpredictable championship battles could be guaranteed.

The WRC is supposed to be the pinnacle of world rallying and as such should be fought out by cars you and me can only dream of - not the car that grandma drives to the supermarket with a silly bodykit bolted on to it. Of course we can't expect 911s, Ferraris, Lotus Exiges, Nissan GTRs etc to be the cars competing for the overall WRC crown as it is still a championship for regular road car manufacturers. But touring car racing doesn't have to suffer the same drudgery that appears in the WRC - just look at the BTCC, WTCC and V8 Supercars, they're cracking motors!

For all of F1s ills they do at least seem to do things about poor aesthetics. They got rid of those stepped noses, having made do with the vanity panels for a while - admittedly it backfired with the noses from last year that looked like sex toys but it was rectified as soon as possible. Now they're talking about silly power outputs to keep fans interested. Then there's the WEC - it's got manufacturers interested because of the freedom they have to develop widely different hybrid systems. Plus fans are interested because they already have silly power outputs and there's a great variety in powerplants - Porsche V4 turbo, Audi V6 TDI, Toyota V8... And what has the WRC got going for it? Quite large wheel arches... Oh and those rear wings are unnecessarily large too...

[AL14]

My grandma goes to the supermarket with a i20, my father could have a Polo, my mother could have a DS3. So I don't understand why Yaris could not be amongst them.

By the way, I understand what you want to say. But if I have to choose between closeness of times and a beautiful car to watch I choose the first, and I think you too. Aesthetic can be somehow "important", or at least something to be interested in... But there are museums if you want to admire forms and shapes. Rally is about speed, performances and reliability of a car in a first istance. Aesthetics come after.

[Miika]

Honestly any works WRC is beautiful to me.

"Anything with a pulse."

After 2003-ish, there isn´t a single WRC class car that would get into my dream garage, cars that would have both the looks and the sounds.

[Jack4688`]

My grandma goes to the supermarket with a i20, my father could have a Polo, my mother could have a DS3. So I don't understand why Yaris could not be amongst them.

Exactly - it's just as bad as an i20 or Shitroen DogShit3


By the way, I understand what you want to say. But if I have to choose between closeness of times and a beautiful car to watch I choose the first, and I think you too. Aesthetic can be somehow "important", or at least something to be interested in... But there are museums if you want to admire forms and shapes. Rally is about speed, performances and reliability of a car in a first istance. Aesthetics come after.

Correct, the aesthetics should come afterwards rather than trying to make a dreadful product look good. However 2017 is the time to do something about the poor choice of cars used in the WRC.

[AL14]

"Shitroen" made me laugh :)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Toyota, Ford, VW and Hyundai sell very well around the world compared to Citroen.... So why are Citroen still in the sport?

[N.O.T]

Toyota, Ford, VW and Hyundai sell very well around the world compared to Citroen.... So why are Citroen still in the sport?

Because of Abu-Dhabi.

[AndyRAC]

Toyota, Ford, VW and Hyundai sell very well around the world compared to Citroen.... So why are Citroen still in the sport?

That's why Citroen have entered the WTCC with the C-Elysse; there are more events in the far east, and developing countries. Is the C-Elysse even available in Europe??

[Fast Eddie WRC]

"Anything with a pulse."

After 2003-ish, there isn´t a single WRC class car that would get into my dream garage, cars that would have both the looks and the sounds.

Of the recent WRC cars I think the original Fiesta WRC is the best-looking and I would certainly like a body-kitted road version of such a car ...

http://www.publieditor.it/autolinknews/gallery/300/photo_large/313451F01.jpg

http://www.pumaspeed.co.uk/saved/Ken_block_fiesta_tanner_foust_by_Pumaspeed_perform ance_tuning.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

New test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hxuZsV0Anc&feature=youtu.be

[A FONDO]

New test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hxuZsV0Anc&feature=youtu.be

If the sound remains that good I can (partially) forgive them the ugliness of the car.

[jbmarcus21]

Last Test Days this week in France Toyota Yaris Wrc (photo-video)

http://planetemarcus.com/pendant-ce-temps-la-toyota-prepare-sa-yaris-wrc

[Extremrallye]

Tests Yaris WRC, Tarmac and Snow : http://youtu.be/DSKyYQsT0eI?list=UULhq2kgtJN3yESuvoq-q5mw

[RICARDO75]

The winner on the HJS TMG GT86 CS-R3 Trophy (7 rallies on german championship), will get a test drive on the new Toyota Yaris WRC.

http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/motorsport/en/home/11-english-categories/news/231-trophy-winner-to-get-wrc-yaris-test-chance

[Grant_RSA]

Not WRC, but this is the South African Yaris for 2015, i think really good looking, newer frontend looks the part to.

[Eli]

Not WRC, but this is the South African Yaris for 2015, i think really good looking, newer frontend looks the part to.

ugly when the door handle is in black and also missing some green

[AdvEvo]

The car is for my liking to small.

[makinen_fan]

Nice video on the history of TTE (and TMG)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfjivmApqpc&index=19&list=WL

[traxx]

Is anybody can summarize us what Sebastian Lindholm said there, please ?
http://automotomaailma.fi/etu/?p=2264

[Hartusvuori]

Is anybody can summarize us what Sebastian Lindholm said there, please ?
http://automotomaailma.fi/etu/?p=2264

Watched it few hours ago, can't remember all, but in general he describes the work flow they have for testing the car, he says how they've been testing at same locations/countries where WRC travels, they take benefit of unlimited test days as long as they have it and he also says he have very positive feeling about the car. Rest is more general, like how cars have developed during the 30 years Lindholm has been driving and how he'd wish more car makes would join the WRC to make it as good as it was in early 2000. He's also positive how Hyundai has succeeded and especially Neuville early this season.

[OldF]

Is anybody can summarize us what Sebastian Lindholm said there, please ?
http://automotomaailma.fi/etu/?p=2264

This is the best translation I could do with my English skills.

“The testing days are long days. Normally we start at 8.00 in the morning and we’re testing until 18-19 (6-7 pm) in the evening and after that we have a team meeting where go true what’s have happening during the day and what things we should do the next day and what things should may be develop with the car.

It’s clear that’s it is important how the car feels for the driver. If the car doesn’t feel good for the driver although the data tell something different we are going with “ass” feeling (how the car feel to drive by the driver).

At first we drive just a lot and have a feeling that’s the car works and can be drivable. Now we are doing testing in Europe in countries where WRC rallies are and we are searching for the conditions where the rallies are in the future. Now it has been possible to test a lot last year and possible also next year when Toyota is not in WRC yet but in the future when Toyota join officially the WRC the advantage end when Toyota is officially in WRC.

The cars have of course developed a lot during the last 30 years, the transmission has changed a lot and the suspension travel could be as much as about three time more compared to 80’s. And of course the tyres and engine, the usable rev area have changed a lot (comparing with NA engines that didn’t have any torque on lower rpms. PS I couldn’t not hear properly what he said when he changed the talk about turbo engines to NA engines because he’s been also driving the B-group cars) as today they’re very drivable as also the road cars with turbo.

VW is strong but Hyundai with Thierry Neuville has been strong in the beginning of this year and it’s important that we get more manufactures in the WRC. When the biggest manufactures are in the WRC also lure other manufactures into WRC and that’s what the WRC need but the most successful top notch are narrow today.

Toyota has announced officially that they’ll be in WRC from 2017 and the competition will narrow and by the rumours the manufacturers that’s now in WRC will stay in WRC and add to that 2-3 more manufactures we would be at the situation we were in the beginning of 2000 and that’s what WRC needs. I believe the car (Toyota) will be competitive when that time comes. There’s still about two years before the first rally but I’m very confident that the car will be competitive when the competition begins. There’s no bad things, only good ones (smile from Basti).”

[stefanvv]

There has been lot of development and testing of Yaris, and more to come, they should be competitive....

[traxx]

Thanks a lot OldF for these quotes !

[OldF]

Thanks a lot OldF for these quotes !

You’re welcome.

[HarriK]

Suninen joins to Toyota:

http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/motorsport/en/home/11-english-categories/news/241-tmg-completes-junior-driver-line-up (http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/motorsport/en/home/11-english-categories/news/241-tmg-completes-junior-driver-line-up)

[Barreis]

Also here...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118313

[AndyRAC]

Oh dear me, I thought we'd seen the last of Joukhi, but no, he's back like a bad penny...
Another Finnish youngster gets a deal after doing very little.
So Toyota have 2 young drivers; 1 French, 1 Finn. Blimey, just what we need. I can't believe there aren't other talents out there of other nationalities.

[rp]

Must be the first time ever when drivers get works contract with these kinds of careers! Both Camilli and Suninen are very inexperienced, but Toyota was testing young drivers and they became convinced about their capabilities...

Ok. Their contract will not verify that they will drive Yaris WRC in 2017 if they are not that kind of level, but they have two years left to develop their skills and Toyota will pay the bills...

[OldF]

Yoshiaki Kinoshita, President: “We are delighted to have Eric and Teemu as part of the TMG junior driver programme this year.

I think TMG will wait and see which of the more experienced drivers are available for the 2017 season.

[EightGear]

What has Tidemand done wrong? After Lefebvre and Abbring rejected Toyotas offers you'd think Pontus would be next in line of the 5 drivers which were invited at the test? Now they're going with the other 2 who were there.

[EstWRC]

Tidemand signed with Skoda last week.

[EightGear]

Well yes I obviously know that, maybe he preferred Skoda but I can imagine Toyota would better.

[Rallyper]

Well yes I obviously know that, maybe he preferred Skoda but I can imagine Toyota would better.

PT didn´t get the right offer from Toyota I guess. Or they refused him in favour for Teemu. Skoda is more in line with his ambitions atm and also correspondents to Even Rally and maybe connections to VW as well. Good choice I believe.

[Hartusvuori]

Toyota is running a juniors' programme. Now they have two obvious talents whom both still qualify as juniors with their limited experience. Abbring, Tidemand and Lefebvre to a degree aren't that much of a blank canvasses anymore after few seasons (of trying) under their belts already. Either Camilli or Suninen could drive Yaris WRC in 2017, but I seriously doubt both of them would.

[N.O.T]

Oh dear me, I thought we'd seen the last of Joukhi, but no, he's back like a bad penny...
Another Finnish youngster gets a deal after doing very little.
So Toyota have 2 young drivers; 1 French, 1 Finn. Blimey, just what we need. I can't believe there aren't other talents out there of other nationalities.

nationalitites are not important...

these two are unproven so they might just remain testers. still very early for toyota and these guys to draw any conclusions

[Simmi]

Toyota are clearly sticking closely to the blueprint laid out by VW. Testing in the same conditions a week after the WRC has been to rallies. Setting up a junior team to gain experience for drivers and crew members. A whole heap of WRC testing over a prolonged period.

We all saw the VW guys who drove the Fabias and not all of them made it into a Polo. Like others have said I think it will be the same scenario for Toyota.

[Rallyper]

nationalitites are not important...

these two are unproven so they might just remain testers. still very early for toyota and these guys to draw any conclusions

Fully agree.

[Ounin]

if I would be Toyota I would sign Latvala for 2016 to develop the car, or Hirvonen in case he would spend too much time at home.

[Miika]

Latvala or Hirvonen

Please Toyota, keep those two away from the car.

[AL14]

Please Toyota, keep those two away from the car.

Which other experienced driver would be better beside the ones that would never leave their actual car like Ogier etc...?

[Rallyper]

Mikkelsen or JML will for sure be #1 driver at Toyota.

[Ounin]

Please Toyota, keep those two away from the car.

You don't understand my point here

[OldF]

For some reason the google translation didn’t work. The first link, “page not found”.
Second link. Google translator didn’t translate it.


Earlier news:

Tommi Mäkinen is searching for a Japanese driver for Toyota.
http://www.kauppalehti.fi/uutiset/tommi-makisen-autobisnekset-luistavat-taas/CXZC68L9

Today:

http://www.hs.fi/urheilu/a1430969253727

Four-time world champion Tommi Mäkinen may open top place to the WRC returning from Toyota's factory in the garage.

Mäkinen does not confirm, but also not disputed information. "The matter will be bracketed on their own rights," says Mäkinen, who admits that Toyota has been in touch with him.

"Otherwise, I can not say that the heavenly."

Toyota returns to World Championship rallies in 2017.

HS: According to information from Mäkinen is designed for demanding expert positions.

"Everything is viewed. I do not know any more."

Mäkinen won four consecutive world championship last Mitsubishi 1999. "There is still the same bunch of people," to know Mäkinen.

Mäkinen continues to hold a rally school in Central Finland. Recently his doctrine became the Japanese riders on May Day.

"Now it is considered what kind of drivers from there you can find. The aim would be to find a good local driver."

Mäkinen is going to go follow the Le Mans 24-hour race 13 to 14. June.

Toyota is involved in a demanding race track two automakers municipal forces.

[giù tutto!]

WTF is going on?!? In Finnish media there is interview of Tommi Makinen, which says he is searching for design team to develop the new Toyota WRC-car for the 2017 rules and he is building up the organisation for the WRC-team based in Finland?? Ok, I have read the news about he will be the team boss of Toyota, but what happened to TMG?

[AMSS]

I agree it seems really messy at the moment, I seriously hope the actual team will be based in Cologne with all development being taken care of there as well, otherwise I fear it will not end well... But let`s wait and see how it developes. Toyota should be a serious works team and a direct works team. As we all can see with VW that`s what brings results. That`s the only solution, I don`t doubt Tommi being a good team manager but he should be in a similar position as Jost Capito and not build something ran outside Cologne..
But so far lots of stuff can be media misinterpretation as well

[AL14]

Journalists are doing a very bad job. They're writing their articles like everything is clear but it is not.
If they were proper journalists they should have the same doubts we have about this and try to explain them in their article.
If it isn't possible to have more informations then they should end their titles and their post with a question mark, not an exclamation mark.

As always time will tell. Or Toyoda has fallen in love with Makinen or there will be soon a clearer explanation.

[Miika]

More of Tommi´s comments in the local newspaper Keskisuomalainen:
http://www.ksml.fi/urheilu/uutiset/lahdemme-taistelemaan-heti-mestaruudesta-toyotan-tallipaallikko-tommi-makinen-lupaa/2083013

In brief, according to Tommi "the main responsibility has been given to Tommi Mäkinen Racing", they will "design and build the WRC car as well as R2- and R5 cars." They haven´t decided the location yet, there are several possibilities for it in Finland as well as elsewhere. Co-operation with TMG in Cologne is possible but it won´t be their home base, says Tommi.

[EightGear]

Lol, what a mess.

Good to see they're planning R2 and R5 cars as well though.

[Miika]

But a beautiful mess. Give them an open chequebook and they will run it from the Moon if necessary.

[AndyRAC]

But a beautiful mess. Give them an open chequebook and they will run it from the Moon if necessary.


It is a right mess. Not only that, but they don't have an open cheque book; since the F1 disaster, they've been careful with their cash.

At the moment, I'm not expecting great things; why would you not use Cologne? And go to an unproven team?

[AMSS]

It is a right mess. Not only that, but they don't have an open cheque book; since the F1 disaster, they've been careful with their cash.

At the moment, I'm not expecting great things; why would you not use Cologne? And go to an unproven team?

I completely agree, I was hoping for a serious contender to VW but if it's taken out of Cologne and starting from scratch it will at best be another Hyundai effort.. not at all what I was hoping for.
This link and also the other story(toyota where are you going?) on the right sums it all up.
http://www.totalwrc.com/details/view/980/Toyota_confirms_Tommi_Makinen_doesn8217t_mention_T MG/

[N.O.T]

I think it is a classic japanese project driven by autism... some people will get good money for 2-3 years then the project will flop.

[RS]

More of Tommi´s comments in the local newspaper Keskisuomalainen:
http://www.ksml.fi/urheilu/uutiset/lahdemme-taistelemaan-heti-mestaruudesta-toyotan-tallipaallikko-tommi-makinen-lupaa/2083013

In brief, according to Tommi "the main responsibility has been given to Tommi Mäkinen Racing", they will "design and build the WRC car as well as R2- and R5 cars." They haven´t decided the location yet, there are several possibilities for it in Finland as well as elsewhere. Co-operation with TMG in Cologne is possible but it won´t be their home base, says Tommi.

So what happened to the current Yaris WRC? Was it not good enough?

[Miika]

So what happened to the current Yaris WRC? Was it not good enough?

They will start with the Yaris still, "designing and building" referred more to the cars in the future (my bad).

[Rally Power]

Why cannot Tommi Makinen Racing become an outside partner to Toyota like MSport was to Ford or Prodrive to Subaru?

Wasn’t Malcolm Wilson Motorsport a modest tuner before become the rally official partner of Ford Motorsport?

Weren’t the Ford contracts that allow Wilson company to grow and build state of the art facilities?

And what have done Toyota Motorsport GmbH besides spending millions in F1 over the years without a single race victory and then become involved in another not very successful project: in 4 years they miss a Le Mans victory (their main objective) and just got one WEC title…

Maybe there’s a new vision from Toyota’s board about subcontracting outside companies in order to run their main motorsport activities (like they’ve done successfully from the beginning in Nascar), and that vision probably has come from the CEO himself.

Mr. Akio Toyoda (grandson of the Toyota founder) become Toyota CEO in 2009, and managed to turn the group first worlwide, supplanting GM leadership of decades. He’s a true motorsport fan and before becoming Toyota CEO he founded Gazoo Racing, a motorsport subsidiarie for domestic racing and a participation programme on the 24h of Nurburgring.

This year, a few months after the WRC announcement, Gazoo Racing become the head of all Toyota motorsport divisions, so Mr. Toyoda become himself the chief of the group motorsport activities. http://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/detail/7515501

Maybe Makinen becomes just TMG rally director, maybe TMR takes a contract to run the whole rally project; in any case Mr. Toyoda motorsport management decisions shouldn’t be so easily criticized.

PS: it can be a coincidence, but the Makinen involvement it’s announced a few weeks after another Le Mans 24h TMG failure!

[Lundefaret]

Tommi Mäkinen running the Toyota WRC effort is very good news!

I hope he is not directed to much when it comes to driver choice (regarding Japanese driver(s) it will be difficult). Tommi has a great understanding of what is needed to build and drive a fast rally car, and with a good budget and good drivers he will succeed.

So, how is this for a theory: Mäkinen and Petter Solberg have a strong link. Will Petter be one of the drivers, maybe a test driver? Will he end up in the WRC team, or will he do Toyotas official World Rallycross Team? Hmmmm...? Interesting :)

[rallyfiend]

The problem with running anything from Finland (if that is the intention) is the ability to attract talent (engineers, designers, mechanics etc) who want to / are willing to live in Finland - especially if it is somewhere remote like rural Finland.

VW started with a clear intention to buy the best talent they could get (FX and Sven Smeets from Citroen, Willy Rampf from Sauber, various engineers from Prodrive, M-Sport and others) and moving or commuting to Hannover is far more attractive concept than Finland. Cologne would offer a similar acceptable environment.

[giù tutto!]

Agree with rallyfiend, there are couple of interesting problems to solve:

VW, Hyundai ja TMG have got all the professional team players around the rallying world. French people will stay on French option. One of the main key will be the staff of the team. Who wants to move to Finland if the HQ will be there? Will there be some lack of team spirit with TMG?

Another main key is to get REALLY good people to lead the team everyday routine. With all my respect this four time world champion is not the best measured by leadership skills, social skills nor emotional intelligence which are all very important features for a successful leadership. I guess Tommi Makinen and the Japanese people can have good relationship, because they appreciate all of those masters very much in Japan. The principles of leadership based to old school authority and discipline. After the second world championship Makinen learned to shout if the things didn't worked as he wanted.

Thinking about the logistics I found it very odd to build up the workshop to Finland. Cannot say this circus is too expensive if you can afford that.

[vkangas]

Hi everyone! Long time no see :). Here in Finland the news on this are all over the place and Tommi has given a lot of interviews. It seems that some people are rushing little bit too much ahead with their conclusions. I tried to put together a small collection what Tommi himself has said in reliable sources:

-They have started from scratch. Real kick-off was last september and after that quite a lot of things have happened.
-Today they are just reqruting, planning and building the team.
-At this early phase is operated from Tommi's current facilities in Puuppola, Finland as they wanted to get things going as fast as possible.
-After the initial planning phase they will evaluate the WRC HQ location. Decision should be after the summer and practically all options are open.
-According to Tommi TMG at Köln has so many projects going on that they want to build up a new organization just for rally. Cooperation with Köln will happen especially with aerodynamics and engines. They want this new rally team to be full of ambitious young people with high motivation and fresh ideas.
-Estimated team size is 100+ persons and target is to get atleast 10 cars ready for the 2017 start. R2 and R5 programs will follow
-There is only small team hired at the moment. Mikko Hirvonen and Jarmo Lehtinen have been hired to work with the young drivers development program. Mikko is also likely to participate in testing the car
-Budget is "enough". The only goal is to win the championship.

[EightGear]

It's such a confusing situation though, something must have gone terribly wrong between Toyota and TMG.

Ironically enough TMG has been testing the Yaris in Finland this week. :D

[Rally Power]

Hi everyone! Long time no see :). Here in Finland the news on this are all over the place and Tommi has given a lot of interviews. It seems that some people are rushing little bit too much ahead with their conclusions. I tried to put together a small collection what Tommi himself has said in reliable sources:

-They have started from scratch. Real kick-off was last september and after that quite a lot of things have happened.
-Today they are just reqruting, planning and building the team.
-At this early phase is operated from Tommi's current facilities in Puuppola, Finland as they wanted to get things going as fast as possible.
-After the initial planning phase they will evaluate the WRC HQ location. Decision should be after the summer and practically all options are open.
-According to Tommi TMG at Köln has so many projects going on that they want to build up a new organization just for rally. Cooperation with Köln will happen especially with aerodynamics and engines. They want this new rally team to be full of ambitious young people with high motivation and fresh ideas.
-Estimated team size is 100+ persons and target is to get atleast 10 cars ready for the 2017 start. R2 and R5 programs will follow
-There is only small team hired at the moment. Mikko Hirvonen and Jarmo Lehtinen have been hired to work with the young drivers development program. Mikko is also likely to participate in testing the car
-Budget is "enough". The only goal is to win the championship.

Great news!

Btw, Toyoda is a huge petrolhead: his racing alter ego is "Morizo"!

racing in Nurburgring: https://youtu.be/CXD5aLJa9ro
testing the Yaris: https://youtu.be/QY8A4m0g5aw
rallying with Makinen: https://youtu.be/_dgrC8pJw88

[N.O.T]

Great news!

Btw, Toyoda is a huge petrolhead: his racing alter ego is "Morizo"!



so was Tajima, and we saw how that effort ended...

so far the selection of people and drivers show that the focus is some people to get rich within a few years rather than achieving anything

[Tinke1979]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLr7tc-_Y94

And here is Camilli testing the Yaris in Finland :)