Toyota announces WRC plans

[AndyRAC]

What was Lasse Lampi job at ralliart during Makinen era?

Chief Test driver. I thought it was well known he did most of the testing for Makinen.....

[AMSS]

Chief Test driver. I thought it was well known he did most of the testing for Makinen.....

This baffles me as well, Lampi was well known for doing most of the testing for Makinen during Mitsubishi years, and Lampi didn`t join Subaru... It`s really strange to read Makinen is considered top test driver of all time (by some) as I haven`t heard anything even remotely similar... He was a very very good, in fact best of his time, driver yes, but test driver?? Anyway I won`t get into more debate with this, lets just all hope Toyota will be competitive with the others so we get a good series.

[Simmi]

Probably quite a good film to watch to get an insight into Makinen from people who know him well. And also some nice footage in there. Good for people who are maybe quite new to rallying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W22vFqVmC80

Some bits on Lampi from around 14:30.

[Lundefaret]

This baffles me as well, Lampi was well known for doing most of the testing for Makinen during Mitsubishi years, and Lampi didn`t join Subaru... It`s really strange to read Makinen is considered top test driver of all time (by some) as I haven`t heard anything even remotely similar... He was a very very good, in fact best of his time, driver yes, but test driver?? Anyway I won`t get into more debate with this, lets just all hope Toyota will be competitive with the others so we get a good series.

Well, when you are an active championship driver, it is quite usual to have other drivers doing the development driving, and even if you get some hints on set up, its usually the driver him self that does the last set up tuning, and this I believe was how the combination of Lasse Lampi (who did important and great work for Mitsubishi) and Mäkinen.
In my mind Tommi had a very clear vision of both how to drive, and how to set up his car to achieve this, but Finnish rally historians can contribute more on this topic.
Even tough his role in his Mitsubishi days was not as a test driver (off course), his skill at finding the right set up is quite evident, as he won many of his rallies by taking an early lead (like Loeb, and Ogier when he is not sweeping.)
(Mäkinen played a great role in Petter Solbergs championship in 2003.)
And because of this, he wants to be an active part in developing the car, which I think is a strength to the team.

If any one here has more detailed info on how Lasse Lampi and Tommi and the whole Mitsubishi team worked together, I would love it if you shared it. And I also think that would be on topic in this thread, because I think Tommi is basing his structure of Toyota Gazoo on the Mitsubishi/Rally Art team structure.
And I also think he wants to get the same "family" feeling in his own team. If he succeeds or not, time will tell.

Any how it will be very interesting to follow the development of this "little brother" of the WRC team family, where I think Volkswagen, Hyundai - and also probably Citroën - has a budget advantage :)

[Lundefaret]

Probably quite a good film to watch to get an insight into Makinen from people who know him well. And also some nice footage in there. Good for people who are maybe quite new to rallying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W22vFqVmC80

Some bits on Lampi from around 14:30.


Great (I was looking for this)! And exactly my point. This is what Tommi is trying to recreate :)

[Lundefaret]

Cool, thanks for that. Didn't know about those guys.

And off cource Andrew Cowan and Ralliart (with I believe is the team Tommi is basing his Toyota Gazoo Racing team on, all tough he is probably having the roles of both Cowan and Lasse Lampi.)

[itix]

no problem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3YUhUApXv4

This "family operation" sure has very good British accent...

[jbmarcus21]

New test in Gravel Spain with Makinen
Gallery Photos http://goo.gl/6ZK33F

[dimviii]

This baffles me as well, Lampi was well known for doing most of the testing for Makinen during Mitsubishi years, and Lampi didn`t join Subaru... It`s really strange to read Makinen is considered top test driver of all time (by some) as I haven`t heard anything even remotely similar... He was a very very good, in fact best of his time, driver yes, but test driver?? Anyway I won`t get into more debate with this, lets just all hope Toyota will be competitive with the others so we get a good series.

we dont know (yet) if Makinen is an advantage or disadvantage to have a role at Yaris testing.
Tommi is a lot of years out of competition,while for example Sainz wasnt.
Times have changed,everything is evolute. Its different to have a good basis(gr A car) and is different to create a wrc which have to be competetive.
I am very sceptical about the Toyota project,the way they organize it.
I am very sceptical because we dont know plenty of things about them(who designed for example Yaris)
Hopefully they succeed,and to have a 4th factory that can win rallies.But to see this,even if they build a car that can win,with which drivers?
Difficult project for Tommi...

[Kielder]

A new video of Makinen testing the car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2ArImvpFnc

[EstWRC]

Another new one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiH0h5q4quY

[dimviii]

Another new one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiH0h5q4quY

according to editor,Jarmo Lehtinen was co driving

[skarderud]

Tommi has done lots of development and driving last 15 years, he do for living for a Long time very good subaru gr.N rallycars.

[er88]

I think it's great for the team Tommy doing the initial testing. He can get first hand knowledge of how the car is driving, and what obvious weaknesses it has straight off the bat. That's a great position to be in for a team leader.

Then it'll be Hanninen/ Mikko who I'm sure will take over and do most of the work when Toyota start ramping up the testing programmes. People on here with more knowledge will be able to correct me if I'm wrong, but i think the plan for Toyota to have 3 cars running simultaneously all over Europe in a few weeks time sounds very positive. That'll be more testing miles than any other team is going to be doing I'd bet.

Unfortunately for Toyota they didn't manage to recruit an excellent test driver/ #1 driver for next year, like Meeke. Kris will be able to put his mark on the C3 and Ogier/Mikkelsen and Jari can do the same for the Polo.

From watching the videos it's a very intriguing sound, totally different to the C3 and VW. It's hard to tell from the videos and maybe I'm mistaken, but compared to watching videos of the c3 and VW it looks like the Yaris might not have the same great acceleration out of slower corners? It does remind me of the first time seeing the i20 testing, something just didn't look totally 'right' but it was hard to put a finger on it.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[dimviii]

Tommi has done lots of development and driving last 15 years, he do for living for a Long time very good subaru gr.N rallycars.

there is nothing common between a production car and a new wrc car.
Except that to develop a wrc car without have drive other wrc cars doesnt help too.

[AndyRAC]

This baffles me as well, Lampi was well known for doing most of the testing for Makinen during Mitsubishi years, and Lampi didn`t join Subaru... It`s really strange to read Makinen is considered top test driver of all time (by some) as I haven`t heard anything even remotely similar... He was a very very good, in fact best of his time, driver yes, but test driver?? Anyway I won`t get into more debate with this, lets just all hope Toyota will be competitive with the others so we get a good series.

Well there was a running joke that Lampi did most of the testing (with Burns), Tommi would turn up, and have a few runs, and decide Yes or No on settings, etc Then go back home. I've read that Kankkunen and even McRae were similar...
He was never known to be like Sainz, who was famous for his thoroughness.

[Rallyper]

So if you should bring up a new car, would you hire Camilli, Abbring or Lefbvre or any other young unexperienced guy to do initial tests or should you maybe consider a multiple champion instead?

[dimviii]

So if you should bring up a new car, would you hire Camilli, Abbring or Lefbvre or any other young unexperienced guy to do initial tests or should you maybe consider a multiple champion instead?

are these the only choices?

[sollitt]

I´m rational and make my comments after more than 50 years experience as a rallydriver/organizer/freak. ... . Yes Per, you have a long varied involvement in the sport, as do I and a number of others who frequent the forum. Perhaps that's why we can recall those who, over the past 5 or so decades, have shaped history and we understand the contributions, efforts and sacrifices they made. And how they are deserving of our respect, not our ridicule.

[Mirek]

So if you should bring up a new car, would you hire Camilli, Abbring or Lefbvre or any other young unexperienced guy to do initial tests or should you maybe consider a multiple champion instead?

Did You make that selection in purpose? How about those who actually worked on some car's development? Mark Higgins, Sebastian Lindholm, Raimund Baumschlager, Freddy Loix, Roman Kresta, Bryan Bouffier, Paolo Andreucci...

You don't need big names for making a good car because driving fast isn't the same as being able to develop a car. Many cars were developed by "nameless" drivers who never won anything with them.

Just like Dimviii I just don't have a good feeling about the whole Tommi's Toyota project even though I wish it all the best (also to Juho Hänninen).

[N.O.T]

Perhaps that's why we can recall those who, over the past 5 or so decades, have shaped history and we understand the contributions, efforts and sacrifices they made. And how they are deserving of our respect, not our ridicule.

oooh... thank you very much.

[Grundo Farb]

Yes Per, you have a long varied involvement in the sport, as do I and a number of others who frequent the forum. Perhaps that's why we can recall those who, over the past 5 or so decades, have shaped history and we understand the contributions, efforts and sacrifices they made. And how they are deserving of our respect, not our ridicule.

Crikey, should we call you "Sir"?

[sollitt]

Crikey, should we call you "Sir"?
No thanks. I do though suggest a short course in English comprehension. Some of your recent posts display a shortcoming in that area.

[Grundo Farb]

No thanks. I do though suggest a short course in English comprehension. Some of your recent posts display a shortcoming in that area.

Maybe you could help me with my comprehension of this word: Pompous.

Now back to Toyota...

[sollitt]

Maybe you could help me with my comprehension of this word: Pompous.
The fact is Grundo, you've written two replies to two of my posts clearly without understanding a word of either one. Who's pompous?

[Grundo Farb]

The fact is Grundo, you've written two replies to two of my posts clearly without understanding a word of either one. Who's pompous?

There is a difference between understanding your post and disagreeing with it.

You come across as someone with superior knowledge because you have been following a sport for a long time and most likely a driver, car builder etc (which is all great) but it doesn't give you any more valid opinion than someone else. I base my opinion on a number of sources (having followed the sport since last century as well) and most importantly the experience of my brother who joined Ralliart in the late 80's when they were developing the Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 with Ari Vatanen and then he joined Ford and worked with the development of the Cosworth RS500, with Stig Blomqvuist, Colin Macrae and also Jonathan Palmer with the RS200 as a Rallycross car etc.

Those days and era are very different to today. I am not an expert, I don't profess to be an expert but I am voicing an opinion that I don't think replicating what has gone before is necessarily the correct thing to do. Formula one has changed, Touring Cars and V8 supercars have changed and I think so has WRC car development. I don't think building a car is the hard bit, building a winning car is very very difficult today, Hyundai has a team of 190 that supports their car development and WRC programme - that's a lot of people in the background working on a number of things - only 4 of them are drivers. Tommi would get my vote of confidence if he was demonstrating more that he is building the team around him than driving the car.

That's my opinion.

[bowler]

Grundo, I don't think that many of us know what tommi is doing, apart from what we read in the media. The very stuff that Andrew Cowan did to build Ralliart was invisible to an outsider also. Time alone will tell, but don't underestimate the people and the process. Like you I am not sure, but for the sake of the sport I want them to succeed

[bowler]

And pompous is a town in Italy, south of Romus

[Grundo Farb]

And pompous is a town in Italy, south of Romus

Love it, brilliant!

[Rallyper]

Yes Per, you have a long varied involvement in the sport, as do I and a number of others who frequent the forum. Perhaps that's why we can recall those who, over the past 5 or so decades, have shaped history and we understand the contributions, efforts and sacrifices they made. And how they are deserving of our respect, not our ridicule.

This OT, but have to be answered. Saying NOT belongs to the forum doesnt mean you agree with him. Not especially when he ridicules people. Still he is the salt on this forum and should be that way.

[Rallyper]

are these the only choices?

No but Tommie was questioned and runs atm Toyota Gazzo development of WRC17. Why wouldn´t he be allowed to test the car? Everyone questioned him hasn´t come up with alternatives for him.

[Rallyper]

Did You make that selection in purpose? How about those who actually worked on some car's development? Mark Higgins, Sebastian Lindholm, Raimund Baumschlager, Freddy Loix, Roman Kresta, Bryan Bouffier, Paolo Andreucci...

You don't need big names for making a good car because driving fast isn't the same as being able to develop a car. Many cars were developed by "nameless" drivers who never won anything with them.

Just like Dimviii I just don't have a good feeling about the whole Tommi's Toyota project even though I wish it all the best (also to Juho Hänninen).

You too Mirek? Tommie is one, maybe the one, perfect man testing the car for the moment. After that later on there will sure be others too. But questioning him is even respectless.

[Francis44]

Obviously too early to tell but the car looks slow compared to what I have seen by now for 2017. Also the fact that Tommi is only recruiting finns gives such a bad image, are the finns the only talent in the World?! Or is he recruiting everyone he is friends with so they can milk this cash cow dry?!

[Mirek]

You too Mirek? Tommie is one, maybe the one, perfect man testing the car for the moment. After that later on there will sure be others too. But questioning him is even respectless.

I didn't question Tommi. I did question You.

[seb_sh]

I think it's a bit knee jerky to focus on Tommi driving atm.

A. There are other test drivers
B. At this point they are just testing that everything works on the car together.

VW did something similar in the first tests with Gronholm.

And don't even get me started about judging the car's speed from the few videos we have...

I'm not with nor against Tommi but i do think its waay too early to judge. Of course, you can gossip.

[Rallyper]

"Mirek: Just like Dimviii I just don't have a good feeling about the whole Tommi's Toyota project even though I wish it all the best (also to Juho Hänninen)."

This is questioning. And like seb_sh says above it´s not time to question anything at this stage of the Toyota WRC project. And neither Tommie. Do we even know the drivers for sure? (maybe except from JH)

[Mirek]

"Mirek: Just like Dimviii I just don't have a good feeling about the whole Tommi's Toyota project even though I wish it all the best (also to Juho Hänninen)."

This is questioning. And like seb_sh says above it´s not time to question anything at this stage of the Toyota WRC project. And neither Tommie. Do we even know the drivers for sure? (maybe except from JH)

As I said, it's only my feeling. I didn't have a good feeling about initial VW tests as well. Time will tell.

[Rallyper]

As I said, it's only my feeling. I didn't have a good feeling about initial VW tests as well. Time will tell.

Now we can agree. :)

[janvanvurpa]

Now we can agree. :)


Yeah in a way I see a huge amount of the "conditions" being right...But that's from my viewpoint of some strange "home-sickness" for the woods up there and the roads..
The technical part---design--that as we've all said can be done anywhere there's electricity to run a computer: a guy can design a gear or a control arm and send the DWG file to the guy at the next desk or across the world with one click to somebody who does a FEA (Finite Element Analysis) and click and it goes to a CNC machinist who carves up a hunk of steel and makes it who can be down the hall or anywhere..

The troubling part is just this cultural part that somebody a page back said about some of the really good drivers who would just drive the car when its supposedly set up back and forth once and mumble OK, and then go and essentially "just drive it". Christain Lorioux said a long time ago in a very interesting and long article in Race Car Engineering that the problem in degigning a car for gravel was getting all the data needed and that was made harder because the best drivers "had a bad habit of driving around problems in the set up".
And they could not explain in terms he---the genius designer and engineer---could understand... (he contrasted this to developing a car for tarmac where the conditions are far more regular and the task so much easiser and with all the test and measurement stuff that could load onto a car, he could get all the data he wanted to make "all the decisions needed to make the car perfect and the driver's opinions or input was really not important" because as he said "They don't really understand all the systems in the car" SO WHO CARES WHAT THEY THINK."

So I wonder if the cultural thing of just how quiet the Finns are by nature, and how the culture emphasises basically "just shut up and drive" which Gronholm so perfectly said once time (when asked "What does it take to be a great WRC driver?" ) he said "Oh, that's easy! A BIG FOOT and an empty head! Ha! Ha! ha!"
Not that no analysis is done, but that so much remain un-said because the culture reinforces the quietness and silence.

And example from granlandet Sverige
(neighboring country Sweden):
I shared a garage with 2 Swedes who were very good riders, very good indeed..Top 5 Swedish Championship level back when Swedish Championship was considered harder to do top 10 than World Championship..
One evening all 3 of us were working on the bikes..I looked at the clock and noticed that we worked each on our own stuff for over 45 minutes and not one word was said.. Zero...
And Swedes consider Finns even quieter relatively.
And my experience shows that to be so..

I wonder if THIS kind of extreme individualism can be a problem for the whole project.

[Rallyper]

No, as TMG also contains japanese humans. (However I don´t know if they are quiet too, but some sort of communication needed in the way project is going) And once again. On this very early stage I suppose they need to test reliability also on the car besides handling.

[janvanvurpa]

No, as TMG also contains japanese humans. (However I don´t know if they are quiet too, but some sort of communication needed in the way project is going) And once again. On this very early stage I suppose they need to test reliability also on the car besides handling.


Oh Japanese..Veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery quiet and worse, in all Asia, very hierarchical...very deferant... (read about co-pilots in Asian Airlines never speaking out when pilot is doing things wrong, and go to their death silently rather than screaming at the pilot..

It IS a problem.. Hell I was just in China again and talking about the top-to-bottom tendencies in all Asia and silence and obedience were so important..

[Mirek]

Per, You can never say so clear no. Communication within the project is the thing which often plays a crucial role even if You have the best individuals involved. I've been working in automotive (stock cars though) for some six years but I haven't met a single project where I could say that everything was properly communicated. With various manufacturers and suppliers, with people from all over the globe, with all the means of modern communication every time there is a lot of problems which can be prevented or solved by proper communication.

There is even something similar to the driver's feedback in my daily work. Imagine that one of the most famous car manufacturer gives You a written specification that "the feeling shall be soft and dull". What the hell is that? How can You as an engineer design something what You can't measure in numbers? It's same with the setup. To find the common language between two worlds - between feelings and numbers, between driver's heads and computers. It's really a tough challenge which You can never consider automatically working.

On the other hand it's not always a good idea to go too much international. Some people simply don't go well with others and sometimes it has a lot to do with typical national mentalities. For example I don't think that it's a good idea to have a common Japanese-Chinese team.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Test video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3YUhUApXv4

Wow, that's a great noise from the new Yaris... :cool:

Makes you realise how important the sound of a rally car is to the spectacle and excitement. It's just as important, if not more so, than the cars appearance.

Hope sometime we can get this through to the TV people and let us have the option of a pure sound stream for fans that dont want/need a commentator talking non-stop.

[N.O.T]

No other team would allow what is happening in the gazzoo team, but the japanese have their own way when it comes to flop so we just wait....

[itix]

Oh Japanese..Veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery quiet and worse, in all Asia, very hierarchical...very deferant... (read about co-pilots in Asian Airlines never speaking out when pilot is doing things wrong, and go to their death silently rather than screaming at the pilot..

It IS a problem.. Hell I was just in China again and talking about the top-to-bottom tendencies in all Asia and silence and obedience were so important..

I work with a lot of asians and boy is this a problem... I had a coworker who almost accepted being killed once just because he didn't dare speaking up when the other college (who was higher than him in rank) did something extremely idiotic that would have gotten them both killed if I hadn't intervened. The lower rank guy actually had a brain unlike the higher rank guy, but he didn't speak up due to their extreme hierarchical structures.

[Jack4688`]

Wow, that's a great noise from the new Yaris... :cool:

Makes you realise how important the sound of a rally car is to the spectacle and excitement. It's just as important, if not more so, than the cars appearance.

Hope sometime we can get this through to the TV people and let us have the option of a pure sound stream for fans that dont want/need a commentator talking non-stop.

Anything that means we don't have to listen to John Desborough!

[Rallyper]

Again, individualism is no problem whether or not they can speak loud and clear with each other or not.
Let´s face facts, those we know.
Tommi (and Hanninen) testing two newbuilt cars, after what I know one in Finland and one currently in Spain. At this stage of testing Tommi seems to do big part.
Why question that without big picture?

Like many of you guys say: let´s wait and see. Questioning this and that by now is not only stupid. It looks to me that there are more of you trying to be gods like N.O.T. whom even not him can tell the future.

[Mirek]

I personally don't want to read only "whoah, that sounds good" posts. It's good to see people's opinions, experiences and feelings also because we can later go back to them and see who was the one to hit the nail. Some level of natural criticism is normal and healthy thing. Remember how hard Pentti was against the M-Sport spare wheel placement in Focus WRC/Fiesta S2000? Sadly he didn't live till the days when M-Sport abandoned the idea but he was obviously right that it was a blind alley.

Of course arrogant and rude one-liners is hardly a way to discuss stuff.

[Rally Power]

First was “it should be TMG”, then “Toyoda is naive” and “Finland isn’t handy”, a couple a weeks ago was “he’s not on schedule” now “Tommi’s too active” and “the team is too much international”, next it’ll probably be “he can’t pick drivers”…Jesus guys, give the man and his team a break and praise their hard work a bit more.

[bowler]

First was “it should be TMG”, then “Toyoda is naive” and “Finland isn’t handy”, a couple a weeks ago was “he’s not on schedule” now “Tommi’s too active” and “the team is too much international”, next it’ll probably be “he can’t pick drivers”…Jesus guys, give the man and his team a break and praise their hard work a bit more.

and then it will be "they only won because the guy in 2nd was slower"

[TWRC]

It will be interesting how this team will work out indeed. I don't see any problem with Tommi testing the car at the moment, because even though he basically hasn't driven any WRC for over a decade now, he's not an idiot, and he can tell if something is working or not. Remembering how the Hyundai looked in 2013 and comparing it to the Yaris, I say they'll be at least decent (but I'm not an expert on this either).
As far as the team structure goes, I think they're still figuring things out how that should be working. Give them time, and if they flop they flop, but hopefully they won't.

[Mk2 RS2000]

Toyota did not become the worlds largest car manufacturer by being stupid.

Toyota are very conscious of having a positive image in motorsport

"Kaizen" is a key word in all of Toyota's operations.

[EstWRC]

3rd day in spain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNl-bVzSuNs&feature=youtu.be

[Rallyper]

First was “it should be TMG”, then “Toyoda is naive” and “Finland isn’t handy”, a couple a weeks ago was “he’s not on schedule” now “Tommi’s too active” and “the team is too much international”, next it’ll probably be “he can’t pick drivers”…Jesus guys, give the man and his team a break and praise their hard work a bit more.

Now, that is spot on man. If I were better in english I´d put it that way.

[dimviii]

3rd day in spain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNl-bVzSuNs&feature=youtu.be

engine problems according to editor

[Mirek]

Toyota did not become the worlds largest car manufacturer by being stupid.

Toyota are very conscious of having a positive image in motorsport

"Kaizen" is a key word in all of Toyota's operations.

Yet, the F1 project wasn't successful and the latest R3 and R1 attemps ended as a disaster even in the lowest rally category...

[danon]

pics & vids - https://www.facebook.com/Toyota-Yaris-WRC-1389931704615542/timeline?ref=page_internal

https://scontent.fsof2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13217261_1737821209794784_3460186253559210960_o.jp g
https://scontent.fsof2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13173366_10153490121105404_3322113129916467463_o.j pg

[focus206]

the latest R3 and R1 attemps ended as a disaster even in the lowest rally category...

I completely forgot about the Yaris R1 project... whatever happened to it?

[Grundo Farb]

Yet, the F1 project wasn't successful and the latest R3 and R1 attemps ended as a disaster even in the lowest rally category...

And Honda (another Japanese car company) is not covering itself in glory in F1. Maybe a comparison too far...

I did like Janvanvurpa's (?) comment about the Finns being naturally quiet. I am doing a project with Japanese and Italians, The Japanese will do what you ask, think about things long and hard and focus on the detail. The wild creative ideas come from the italians. Its chaos to make it all work, but it seems to. The japanese when the present to the client, its all thought out and they won't show the client until it is. The Italians will openly argue and debate in front of the client and with the client. Japanese and Finns would be an interesting mix.

And yes, the Japanese will not challenge authority. If Tommi is in charge he is the boss and will be right. Not necessarily a bad thing if he is always right.

Diversity in teams is good.

[Zeakiwi]

There are a few former M-Sport people in Tommi Makinen Toyota. Is there a place for pickems/ rankings for the rally engineers and technical directors etc?
https://rallyparadise.wordpress.com/2015/12/04/toyota-gazoo-racings-team-struc
I would assume with the mix of M-Sport, Prodrive and Ralliart experience there will be the meetings, reviews, progress reports etc to move the Yaris project forward.

[Munkvy]

To attempt to change the approach of this topic a little, I will ask about the design of the car...

What do people think of the frontal area? I assume the two small holes under headlights are for sensors only? But what about the entry point in the middle of the high pressure area and the corresponding vent centre of the bonnet? Could this be for cooling airflow over the turbo/intercooler? Bit different from other WRC designs, but I wonder how that will look in an unmasked car and compared to the factory car look?

What are peoples thoughts on the aero? The wing is obviously a little different and seems to be taking advantage of the more relaxed wing rules. The wheel arches and the "running boards" (Sorry don't know technical name) seem reminiscent of WTCC and seem a logical way to further smooth airflow. To my rather limited knowledge of aero this all looks quite logical, but keen to hear more knowledgeable opinion?

[mohit]

I am not an expert or an engineer but i do feel that yaris might be able to do what peugeot 208 did back in the days with marcus as driver.

yaris seems quite small in front of the VW and Citroen C3 but seems pretty stable.

in testing videos of yaris there is continuous release of throttle by tommi or who ever was testing it so true speed is not yet evident but car surely looks and sounds pretty good initially.

[Rallyper]

Yet, the F1 project wasn't successful and the latest R3 and R1 attemps ended as a disaster even in the lowest rally category...

Was Tommi involved?

[Mirek]

Why do You mention Tommi when the sentence I reacted to was about Toyota? Don't You agree that those three mentioned Toyota projects were failures?

[Lundefaret]

To attempt to change the approach of this topic a little, I will ask about the design of the car...

What do people think of the frontal area? I assume the two small holes under headlights are for sensors only? But what about the entry point in the middle of the high pressure area and the corresponding vent centre of the bonnet? Could this be for cooling airflow over the turbo/intercooler? Bit different from other WRC designs, but I wonder how that will look in an unmasked car and compared to the factory car look?

What are peoples thoughts on the aero? The wing is obviously a little different and seems to be taking advantage of the more relaxed wing rules. The wheel arches and the "running boards" (Sorry don't know technical name) seem reminiscent of WTCC and seem a logical way to further smooth airflow. To my rather limited knowledge of aero this all looks quite logical, but keen to hear more knowledgeable opinion?

I personally find the car very interesting, but also see it as quite differentiated compared to the "regular" WRC cars, which means that it can go either way.

Aerodynamics: In regards to the aerodynamics, there have obviously been a lot of work going on, and from the outset I think they are pushing boundaries that others will have to follow.
They have a clear splitter, an extreme running board design, rear view mirrors that I think are made to direct the airflow, and probably have something to do both with the wheel arches and the winglets on the rear wing, all to control air flow.

Rear wing: The rear wing in itself is obviously quite different to the "WRC Standard". It has no rounded edges, and is in this case square as a wing from the older Subaru WRC (sedans) (but with out the plates in the high pressure area), and also similar to the MINI WRC. The rounding of I believe (in lack of better understanding) is made both because of airflow, but also because a rally wing also needs to work at an angle because of sliding. So to me this looks like a wing made to work when the car is straight, which also should give some clue about the general philosophy behind the car.

Ride hight: The rear wing off course has a main job of extracting air from beneath the car, so it will work in direct correlation with the splitter and the underside. To maximise effect they are running the car VERY low. If they can keep it like this, it will be some kind of revolution in the WRC, and again its all about the aero (mostly.)
On surfaces like in Finland, and off course on tarmac, you can do this, no problem. But for me it will be interesting to see how it can work in the rough. From what I have seen from the early footage, there is already some problems. Both in regards to general ground clearance, but also in regards to the low ride hight creating jumps where other cars would just run straight over. So this will be interesting to follow.

Driving: From the outside - but this is off course just VERY early testing - it looks like a very straight line car, which I think can be good. But it will also require the driver to adapt to the car in a bigger extent than for example a very rounded of M- Sport Ford.

If you compare this car to the TMG one, even tough that was built to 2016 specs, its clearly a more aggressive strategy and tactics, which shows that you dont need the biggest team or the biggest budget to be the smartest. And I think especially in the aero departement this car already has made for some extra pondering by the competitors. Way to early and way to little info to really judge performance, but I think it looks interesting in a positive way.

[Rallyper]

Why do You mention Tommi when the sentence I reacted to was about Toyota? Don't You agree that those three mentioned Toyota projects were failures?

Calm down. I was just kidding you a bit. :) :)

[RAS007]

Please pardon my ignorance, but where does the "Gazoo" in the team name come from? Surely not the Flintstones character, the Great Gazoo…..

[Sulland]

Please pardon my ignorance, but where does the "Gazoo" in the team name come from? Surely not the Flintstones character, the Great Gazoo…..

966
Here is Tommi Gazoo for you!

[dimviii]

Jason Craig ‏@JournoJason

The Toyota Yaris #WRC test car has reportedly gone through four engines already. One managed just thirty miles...

https://twitter.com/JournoJason?lang=el

[Franky]

And they've been testing over a month now?

[Andre Oliveira]

Time do edit thread name i think.

[Sulland]

Jason Craig ‏@JournoJason

The Toyota Yaris #WRC test car has reportedly gone through four engines already. One managed just thirty miles...

https://twitter.com/JournoJason?lang=el

So will Tommi Gazoo take over the enginebuild as well now, and use an external engine builder?

[Simmi]

Are these engines essentially the only thing TMG had to do with this programme?

[pantealex]

Are these engines essentially the only thing TMG had to do with this programme?

Mainly yes, only some small things comes from TMG.

TMG facilities are in use (wind tunnels etc.)

[dodge33cymru]

Please pardon my ignorance, but where does the "Gazoo" in the team name come from? Surely not the Flintstones character, the Great Gazoo…..
Not 100% sure but it's what Toyota are trying to turn into a performance brand, I believe. They renamed all their works motorsport activities last year to be under this banner, including their Le Mans and Nurburgring 24 (which I'm currently on my way to) efforts.

I believe the name came from Mr Toyoda or someone high up and was their private race team, but don't quote me on that.

[Mirek]

Jason Craig ‏@JournoJason

The Toyota Yaris #WRC test car has reportedly gone through four engines already. One managed just thirty miles...

https://twitter.com/JournoJason?lang=el

Depends how much they test. It's possible to do even more than 300 km of tests per day and in that case the engine needs a revision after just several days. We shall also take into account that the car first run only few weeks a go and it's the time when the problems shall appear to be later solved.

[Rallyper]

And why not suspect that they test reliability this way? Drive until it breaks down and assess weakest link?

[Priorat]

Some photos of those tests last week in Catalunya:

http://ralliaire.blogspot.com.es/

[itix]

Are we even sure that this info about 4 engines comes from some kind of credible source, or is it just a case of the jungle telegraph?

[pantealex]

Depends how much they test. It's possible to do even more than 300 km of tests per day and in that case the engine needs a revision after just several days. We shall also take into account that the car first run only few weeks a go and it's the time when the problems shall appear to be later solved.

and they are driving with 2 cars = double km

[danon]

http://s33.postimg.org/fmu0shrpb/13235231_1150957874961961_4401353970159952511_o.jp g
Pics - https://www.facebook.com/albertsphoto/?fref=photo

[pantealex]

#1 car in Finland
#2 car in South-Europe
#3 car is tarmac spec, not 100% sure is it ready yet...

[er88]

You can't fault their effort and testing schedule, it sounds like they'll be testing pretty much non stop with 3 cars for the rest of the season simultaneously. Whether the cars are any good is the question though...

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Rally Power]

Not 100% sure but it's what Toyota are trying to turn into a performance brand, I believe. They renamed all their works motorsport activities last year to be under this banner, including their Le Mans and Nurburgring 24 (which I'm currently on my way to) efforts.

Japanese forum friends could be more helpful explaining what’s Gazoo, as probably there’s nothing like it in Europe. Apparently Gazoo it's much more than a simple brand. It’s a powerful tool used as e-marketing and social media platform for Toyota group makes and activities. It was developed by Mr. Toyoda before becoming the group President and Gazoo racing activities started steadily, surely motivated by Akio’s strong passion for motorsport. At the beginning of 2015 all major Toyota's motorsport activities, previously spread in many structures, were centralized in a new formation called Toyota Gazoo Racing, headed by Toyoda.

http://www.toyota-global.com/company/history_of_toyota/75years/data/business/it-its_e-toyota-gazoo/e-toyota-gazoo.html
https://gazoo.com/Pages/index.aspx

[dimviii]

Teemu / Rallirinki ‏@HartusvuoriWRC

Toyota Gazoo testing today in Central Finland with #YarisWRC chassis #1. Picture taken from Instagram user jmaukka.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cj3Rb6qWEAA4sXK.jpg

[dimviii]

Hanninen at Spain 6th day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqUohcP2-xU

[Jack4688`]

I wonder what made the noise found in this video so distinctive - something broken? Or an idea that was dumped after a test? https://youtu.be/Y3YUhUApXv4

[AL14]

I wonder what made the noise found in this video so distinctive - something broken? Or an idea that was dumped after a test? https://youtu.be/Y3YUhUApXv4

To me it's just some wrong settings in the audio recording of the camera... may it be?

[danon]

I wonder what made the noise found in this video so distinctive - something broken? Or an idea that was dumped after a test? https://youtu.be/Y3YUhUApXv4

sound camo... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc0cOLcHVSs

[pantealex]

Nikara is driving #1 car with Tommi this week.

[EstWRC]

They will be testing in Estonia or what is this about ?https://twitter.com/rallyparadise/status/738248159407837184

Pantealex you know more ?

[rp]

They will be testing in Estonia or what is this about ?https://twitter.com/rallyparadise/status/738248159407837184

Pantealex you know more ?

The main HQ will be in Finland (rally cars) & 2nd in Tallinn (recce & service cars). All the rally cars will carry Estonian reg. plates. Not know why, but it must be much cheaper and easier in Estonia...

[EstWRC]

Ah ok thanks! Yeah it's cheaper here.

[bluuford]

The main HQ will be in Finland (rally cars) & 2nd in Tallinn (recce & service cars). All the rally cars will carry Estonian reg. plates. Not know why, but it must be much cheaper and easier in Estonia...

Yes, they get red SP numbers. They pay a bit over 200 eur to Estonian Autosport Union, some for registering and registry plate and they do not need to carry out regular technical checks as it will be done before each rally anyway. And there is no car tax in Estonia.
Registration cost in Finland is related to the power of the car , CO2 emisson, age etc. (KWh), so, you may assume that registration 2017 WRC costs a lot + there is also annual car tax if i am not msitaken that is based on similar things (Age, CO2, power, etc). You need one more employee to calculate all those taxes :P

[br21]

I think it's more related to how easy it is to register the cars in Estonia than to the cost (in such big project such cost is not that important). We have some of our cars registered in Eesti also and it's much, much easier to do it.

[pantealex]

I think it's more related to how easy it is to register the cars in Estonia than to the cost (in such big project such cost is not that important). We have some of our cars registered in Eesti also and it's much, much easier to do it.

Exactly, in Finland impossible register without airbags etc.

[pantealex]

They will be testing in Estonia or what is this about ?https://twitter.com/rallyparadise/status/738248159407837184

Pantealex you know more ?


Yes, I do:

There was two pages story about Tommi/Toyota in todays Keskisuomalainen (local newspaper in Jyväskylä)
short summary:
Lot of work to do but they have enough time
So far 3000km testing, aim is 25000km
#3 is tarmac one (ready? they don´t tell)
#2 car next to Portugal and Italy, driver Hänninen
#1 car will head to Eastern-Europa next (probably means east part of western-europa)
Some "new" team members:
Tom Fowler (from nuclearcompany like RallyPer)
Simon Carrier (Ford)
Kevin Postecin (KTM)
Michael Zotos (RX USA)
70 people working now, will be little over 100
9 WRC cars will be made
only free WRC driver is Östberg, and is willing to swap, all other have contracts (Neuville does not want leave Hyundai)
Hänninen is strong candidate to be 1 out of 3 drivers
other names that Tommi is interested: Lappi, Suninen and Tidemand. (2018 maybe some of current top drivers is willing to join them)

And that Estonia case:
Gazoo Juniors Takamoto Katsuta and Hiroki Arai will use Fiesta R5 evo´s from MM-Motorsport (Markko Märtin), and team is located in Tallinn, so it´s almost 100% sure that Toyota´s second place is that.
5 rallies announced so far, 3 in Finnish championship (rallies in Sastamala-Huittinen, Turku and Tampere area), ERC Estonia and WRC2 Finland.

[Simmi]

Very interesting. Ostberg, Lappi, Hanninen is an okay lineup for 2017. Improve reliability, flash some speed and try to lure Latvala for 2018.

[EstWRC]

Thanks a lot for the info! Only free driver Ostberg? Interesting, Tänak, Sordo, Neuville are all free after this year. What i read out from this is that Tänak is going back to m-sport next year and Neuville and Sordo will stay with Hyundai.

As far as i know that Toyota wants that one driver is japanese. One driver is Hanninen, so basically just 1 seat left then.

[N.O.T]

As far as i know that Toyota wants that one driver is japanese.

be serious...

[EstWRC]

yeah i know, its a joke for me too but im not surprised either...i think there were already rumors about this a long time ago.

[N.O.T]

yeah i know, its a joke for me too but im not surprised either...i think there were already rumors about this a long time ago.

be serious...

[EstWRC]

lol...it doesnt mean that this will happen.

[bluuford]

I think it's more related to how easy it is to register the cars in Estonia than to the cost (in such big project such cost is not that important). We have some of our cars registered in Eesti also and it's much, much easier to do it.

I told you that you need to hire additional person in Finland who counts all the rules and taxes you have to pay to own WRCar ;)

[N.O.T]

lol...it doesnt mean that this will happen.

still, no need to mention stupid rumours.

[seb_sh]

The Japanese driver thing was mentioned some time ago but I don't they said they will put one in from the start. They have a driver development program and I guess they hope to produce one that's good enough.

[pantealex]

Thanks a lot for the info! Only free driver Ostberg? Interesting, Tänak, Sordo, Neuville are all free after this year. What i read out from this is that Tänak is going back to m-sport next year and Neuville and Sordo will stay with Hyundai.

As far as i know that Toyota wants that one driver is japanese. One driver is Hanninen, so basically just 1 seat left then.

Tommi didn´t mentioned Sordo and Tänak at all ;)
(He said: Ogier and JML will continue with VW,
Mikkelsen, Paddon and Meeke all have multi year contracts,
Neuville does´t want to leave Hyundai
that leaves only Östberg available and likely he is willing to join Toyota)

Japanese driver is possible to 3rd car, Mr Toyoda wants that and that is the reason why Arai and Katsuta are driving, I don´t believe that Tommi takes Östberg, I still believe that "old foxes" are driving 1 offs.

[janvanvurpa]

Exactly, in Finland impossible register without airbags etc.

How does that work in rally cars?

Or is it just for car past a certain date?

can't apply to all rally cars, no?
F cup?

[pantealex]

How does that work in rally cars?

Or is it just for car past a certain date?

can't apply to all rally cars, no?
F cup?

old cars don´t need airbags,
F-cars and almost all others have no reg.plates in Finland, they have those sticker plates. (and those stickers are not valid outside Finland, that why Toyota must have plates from another country)

[Simmi]

The Japanese driver thing was mentioned some time ago but I don't they said they will put one in from the start. They have a driver development program and I guess they hope to produce one that's good enough.

Yeah I sincerely doubt they will put either of the development guys into a car from the word go. They've had nowhere near enough experience or relevant seat time. They'll only have done one WRC event in an R5 before next year. Better to have it as a long-term aim.

Besides given the new rules it's debatable whether the FIA would even allow it. Supposedly Toyota are building an R5 so hopefully they could run that a bit more frequently next year - although I've no idea when that car is being homologated.

[Mirek]

Supposedly Toyota are building an R5 so hopefully they could run that a bit more frequently next year - although I've no idea when that car is being homologated.

that gives me goose bumps everytime I read what else is Toyota developing. Like if it wasn't enough how they failed with R1 and R3. Why can't they concentrate on ONE project and make it really good?

[pantealex]

that gives me goose bumps everytime I read what else is Toyota developing. Like if it wasn't enough how they failed with R1 and R3. Why can't they concentrate on ONE project and make it really good?

True,
but has somebody seen any R2 or R5 Toyota prototype?
I´m 100% sure that in Finland only WRC developing atm. (and they have said that R2 and R5 will also come from Tommi, so not in near future...)

[Rallyper]

@Pantealex @JanvanVurpa Register isn´t needed for rallying, is that so? Special plates for rallycars that can´t be used on roads except on rallies. Like in Sweden.
For TMG it´s about taxes on new cars as well isn´t it?

[Rally Power]

Tommi didn´t mentioned Sordo and Tänak at all ;)
(He said: Ogier and JML will continue with VW,
Mikkelsen, Paddon and Meeke all have multi year contracts,
Neuville does´t want to leave Hyundai
that leaves only Östberg available and likely he is willing to join Toyota)
Japanese driver is possible to 3rd car, Mr Toyoda wants that and that is the reason why Arai and Katsuta are driving, I don´t believe that Tommi takes Östberg, I still believe that "old foxes" are driving 1 offs.

Even if he wasn't mentioned, Sordo would be a nice alternative. He's a reliable 2nd driver like Ostberg but has more tarmac experience. The young Japanese's drivers are a long term program. It'd be a bit weird seeing them on a '17 WRC car so soon.

[stefanvv]

The young Japanese's drivers are a long term program. It'd be a bit weird seeing them on a '17 WRC car so soon.

Who pays, orders the music. If Toyota wants a Japanese driver, they'll have it....

[Simmi]

Who pays, orders the music. If Toyota wants a Japanese driver, they'll have it....

If Toyota wanted a Japanese driver in the car next year they would have paid for more rallies/seat time and accelerated the process.

Zero chance these guys are competing in a WRC car next year.

http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=81956&t=Takamoto-Katsuta
http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=57063&t=Hiroki-Arai

[stefanvv]

http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=81956&t=Takamoto-Katsuta
http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=57063&t=Hiroki-Arai

what does this mean?

[seb_sh]

what does this mean?

Look at their experience and compare to some drivers who are mentioned for a WRC drive soon like Lappi or Tidemand. Even Camilli had more experience. It's too soon to put those guys in a WRC, maybe after 2 more years...

[pantealex]

Even if he wasn't mentioned, Sordo would be a nice alternative. He's a reliable 2nd driver like Ostberg but has more tarmac experience. The young Japanese's drivers are a long term program. It'd be a bit weird seeing them on a '17 WRC car so soon.

I believe Tommi did´t mention Sordo because he really is alternative... (maybe same goes for Tänak also)

[pantealex]

@Pantealex @JanvanVurpa Register isn´t needed for rallying, is that so? Special plates for rallycars that can´t be used on roads except on rallies. Like in Sweden.
For TMG it´s about taxes on new cars as well isn´t it?

Bit OT

No, you need register in every car which is driven in public road, no matter what is the reason. There is no special plates for rally or any other type of cars. Taxes has nothing to do with Yaris case, it just is impossible to register new car to Finland without airbags or CO2-documents.

[seb_sh]

Bit OT

No, you need register in every car which is driven in public road, no matter what is the reason. There is no special plates for rally or any other type of cars. Taxes has nothing to do with Yaris case, it just is impossible to register new car to Finland without airbags or CO2-documents.

Wait, so are all rally cars in Finland registered somewhere else? Or how are other cars, like group N or R5 registered?

[HarriK]

Wait, so are all rally cars in Finland registered somewhere else? Or how are other cars, like group N or R5 registered?

Mainly all are driven by temporary plate (red sticker plate). You get only those for like special training day or to race days only.
Those are too expensive for all day use and always route has been marked to plates which is allowed to be driven.

And also car public road insurance has to be paid for one year or only for these special days.

[pantealex]

Wait, so are all rally cars in Finland registered somewhere else? Or how are other cars, like group N or R5 registered?

Yes, like HarriK explains, but Historic cars all exception, they must be registered in Finland (with real metal plates)
Because of that insurance all cars in WRC Finland have those sticker plates.

[seb_sh]

I see, thanks for clearing it up for me. :)

[jonlint]

@Pantealex @JanvanVurpa Register isn´t needed for rallying, is that so? Special plates for rallycars that can´t be used on roads except on rallies. Like in Sweden.
For TMG it´s about taxes on new cars as well isn´t it?

That explains something. For Rally Finland 2009, all without airbags, they provided every car with temporary licence plates.

[dimviii]

Mikko present at Katsutas test with MM
https://twitter.com/TakamotoKatsuta?lang=el

[HarriK]

Mikko present at Katsutas test with MM
https://twitter.com/TakamotoKatsuta?lang=el

Also looks like Jouni Ampuja was there

[danon]

Toyota Yaris WRC 2017 test pics + video, 2.-3.6.2016 (Finland) - http://jpleinonen.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Motorsport/2016/Toyota+Yaris+WRC+2017+test,+2.-3.6.2016+(Finland)/


http://jpleinonen.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Motorsport/2016/Toyota%20Yaris%20WRC%202017%20test,%202.-3.6.2016%20(Finland)/_MG_9248.JPG?img=img1280

[Fly]

Toyota Yaris WRC 2017 test pics + video, 2.-3.6.2016 (Finland) - http://jpleinonen.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Motorsport/2016/Toyota+Yaris+WRC+2017+test,+2.-3.6.2016+(Finland)/


http://jpleinonen.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Motorsport/2016/Toyota%20Yaris%20WRC%202017%20test,%202.-3.6.2016%20(Finland)/_MG_9248.JPG?img=img1280

Dedicated to NOT ;)

[nafpaktos]

On sunday i read to a greek magazine a substantial interview from the greek toyota chief engineer Michalis Zotos.He says he is very happy with the car and from the job that have been done in a short time.He also says that the car faced almost zero problems( that all new cars have) in the first shakedown kms.He also said that he designed totally the suspension apart from having the overseeing of the whole project.The interview is too big to write all the details.

[dimviii]

give us a link nafpaktos.

[danon]

http://www.sport24.gr/Sports/Motorsport/wrc/o-mixalhs-zwtos-sto-c-d-to-yaris-kai-ta-nea-wrc-toy-2017.4098396.html

[nafpaktos]

this link has only a small part of the interview.I read the whole interview from the <car and driver> magazine.

[TON]

nafpaktos are you able to post the original magazine article?

[nafpaktos]

is it legal?

[AL14]

is it legal?

It's not that elegant but of course you won't be sentenced to jail.

[N.O.T]

is it legal?

No, but the long term plan of the forum is to send you to jail eventually, so just scan and post the article here, it will save us time on thinking another plot to frame you.

[nafpaktos]

the one page i did'nt upload was just a photo of Michalis
http://s33.postimg.org/onh3ob3tb/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/atsqz9b7v/full/)
image hosting site over 5mb (http://postimage.org/)

http://s33.postimg.org/o0rvx6f4f/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/xy2wq8mq3/full/)
upload img (http://postimage.org/)

http://s33.postimg.org/d56nnuccv/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/7h0cwy80b/full/)
windows 7 screenshot (http://postimage.org/app.php)

http://s33.postimg.org/uyyumfvv3/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/shn3f6byj/full/)
gifs upload (http://postimage.org/)

http://s33.postimg.org/6ni5crpqn/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/m8zgwq1or/full/)
temp image upload (http://postimage.org/)

[AL14]

the one page i did'nt upload was just a photo of Michalis
http://s33.postimg.org/onh3ob3tb/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/atsqz9b7v/full/)
image hosting site over 5mb (http://postimage.org/)

http://s33.postimg.org/o0rvx6f4f/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/xy2wq8mq3/full/)
upload img (http://postimage.org/)

http://s33.postimg.org/d56nnuccv/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/7h0cwy80b/full/)
windows 7 screenshot (http://postimage.org/app.php)

http://s33.postimg.org/uyyumfvv3/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/shn3f6byj/full/)
gifs upload (http://postimage.org/)

http://s33.postimg.org/6ni5crpqn/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/m8zgwq1or/full/)
temp image upload (http://postimage.org/)

Now you translate it for us or I'm going to tell the magazine what you've done and send you in prison.

[stefanvv]

Now you translate it for us or I'm going to tell the magazine what you've done and send you in prison.

Download the images, use finereader to get the text, use google translate and You'll get enough gibberish no one to go to jail:)

[N.O.T]

ok just a quick translation of the important parts and not those about his personal life

The car feels fast and hanninen and tommi say it gives a lot of confidence but they do not have a clear indication of how fast it is yet.
The car was very reliable from the start and they started testing it earlier than they thought
The skirts around the car really make a difference on grip especially to drivers with clean driving style
He says he is happy with the gravel performance of the car but tarmac performance is different thing because after 140km/hr the aerodynamics play a very important role
They did aero tunnel tests with parts of the skirts missing to test the effect on aerodynamics and they were satisfied
About that infinity divided by zero symbol they had on the rear window he says that if you divide by zero then infinity is the result no matter what (math freaks enlighten me) and that means NO LIMITS......... and apparently makinen liked that because he is shit at math apart from english (that was my assumption because i am god)
He is not stressed about Monte 2017 but about the end of the season in 2017 because that is when he is going to have an indication of what the car can do
About drivers they need a driver that he is going to test the limits of the car however he states that nowadays nobody tells their drivers to go flat out everywhere because of budget but he says they will probably pick 1 stage and say to their driver to go flat out even if that means he is going to crash because they want to see if the car can win.

And the rest of the interview is just boring stupid shit about how he reached the top so useless greek dog kids can read it and say "HEY I CAN BE THE BEST EVEN IF I AM FROM A SHITHOLE COUNTRY RAN BY MOBSTERS" and when he tries to do it he crashes head first an the rest of the world laugh at his misery an failure... that last part does nt apply to me because i am god... but you already know that.

[AL14]

This god thing has gone too far... lol
But thanks for the translation

[stefanvv]

About that infinity divided by zero symbol they had on the rear window he says that if you divide by zero then infinity is the result no matter what (math freaks enlighten me)

I will - Infinity divided by zero is still infinity, so no limits. Just in that case the zero must have a sign, be it positive or negative, and as TMR didn't put one, how do You like it to be?

[stefanvv]

Download the images, use finereader to get the text, use google translate and You'll get enough gibberish no one to go to jail:)

Ok, here is what I got from this (terrible) experiment:

nnki
A * "> 1 × R k
INTERVIEW
iis neosysioiis group pAHL |
| St Togoith cm² megaii
chloride Pa7 <osm ^^ Eliina |
^^^^^ Voiispsiioieres tops chloride global iioIoGVroiTI
> INTERVIEW IN PANOS N. DIAMANTI> F0T .: GEORGE BOX, FILE
On the first day that a garage door opened up and has the original prototype GthIIgothG TogoIth Ythie WFGD, the dotted breath rough exhaust of smoke at zero degrees Celsius the vast, desolate remote Finnish province of ygnth $ Kgi3 where you go by plane Helsinki. Later he rained hard. Just six months earlier there was nothing there except plains enallassonyan with the seasons in green and white, windows of a house gouged yellow light in the northern dark days and farm - and now, in March 416, through where was only the farm, came the first YthPd \ L / P0 built by formulas racing team Topingi MthKiivi, the mechanical direction of Michael Zotos. "There, in the middle of nowhere, about six months we thought we were hallucinating," said 49chronos engineer. "We thought we were living in an illusion, if we make the car or not." There were tears of many at that time that day, but the vast green flat Finnish land RyyrroIth seemed inexorably and vastly empty and secluded from the nuclei of itioIoeroiI, to have spawned from one to six months ago the farm of an advanced wt / Hoyo RvIIg 03g specifications 2017. Back in Athens, a few days later, Michael Zotos saw the first niytho of automobile testing in IiIthGithi and all came to reveal: "When I saw the nioIvo I called in Finland and told them: 'children, we make car *. And laughed. I told them that until then I thought that we were living an illusion that we have fantasies. " Michael Zotos read much more worked, for now by the most difficult, tedious and exhausting challenge of his life, at the highest level of world GthIIgdroiI And so the Greek reality of 2016, rather resembles a similar illusion that you can climb on your motorcycle and in 15 minutes you are in an apartment building in Athens in the living room of the technical director of the Togoi3 nnke, an international Greek at times difficult to be Greek. However, there is no illusion.
How do you start from scratch to build a whole of \ NPC team?
The biggest problem was to find designers with experience in WFGD, but if you're experienced means that you are a little higher in age, and have a family - how to ask such a man
EXCLUSIVE
MICHAEL
/ Technical DIRECTOR TOYOTA 6az00 ka0in6 - \ nkz
come in Finland? A difficult aspect was also the team's chemistry, to understand what was behind what we saw in the interviews. If a person is open-minded, if I heard an idea that said a young man who just came from the university. Because if you do not accept, and this idea gives us half the tenth kilometer, they lost the team. Of course, Finland has another good - especially where it is ToGipii in ygn35KgIth: once you are there, you do not have to do anything else to work the colony. All you can do is) just thioIyGO summer and little OGOdd-eouiiGg ^ skiing in winter. This came to our good because no group -and] I say with perifania- has not started in September and has car ready in March. Six months. Even companies that are made I mean the simple things, have computers, building designers and systimato-) poetry, is unlikely to do so in six months.
How it developed the first test car two months chloride, to date?
The good thing is that hardly stopped work -only I was leaving shortly to come to see my family, but the other children staying there below; so the car was designed so well that is already trusted. In his first ride in a way out of the house | Togogti, the original plan was to see the data, look if the sensors are working, go back to fix something that is not working etc. Many cars are problematic at birth and this process takes one week, but in our case in one day was okay. Which means that next | day we went to the woods, we began testing much m <quickly from what counted. You can not say PFI <fast is - no manufacturer can not tell. Certainly, however, and the Togtigti and Dull [Ithpiiithi] say that speed is great. The base is very good. This is a very small group of designers.
108
GAP & ORinER

In addition to reliability, what are your initial conclusions about his behavior?
From what they say the drivers is very responsive to changes in direction and gives enough confidence to the driver. Incidentally, in our first tests with temperature between zero and two degrees and with much rain, very impressed with the grip. And while the whole issue of suspension and nthiieIth agithPIiod was entirely my own work, I was very happy with the first comments.
This on construction inborn virtues of a car on asphalt or dirt there?
Yes. there, too. So far I'm very pleased and happy for the soil, and we expect to see very next (Ed .: suspension development step). Why design number of suspension worked very well. And especially a
/ X> as I have found that is totally unconventional, and expect it to work well.
We wait to see how it is and asphalt - there is /. c only the absolutely low cars. If you do exit, will do with Hoff /.a. / Km after 140 Km / H aerodynamics is something else
UT "3 ^ - ^ OLLi d;
The perimeter aprons seem to tend slightly
Yes that's how it is. And impressed drivers (Ed .: the aerodynamic lift). Those drivers like OsithG, have a style of speaking, they are lucky. Those who begin xeko *% automatically and such ... But the handling is scary.
But if it breaks? Or, how can you have sGouia thLthoI rally that the height from the ground, and the ground itself in the earth, is constantly changing?
Yes, it is difficult to have an ideal balance Bitumen is much more feasible. However, we do tests on the road and in the wind tunnel and poor parts of the body, which can break a rally.
"II design freedom gives regulations under?
Minimum. At the point where the rear wing, iara- for example, gives you a "box", a volume in which HRE told to work. However these specific diastasek car which just ^ polyol have the same, and L *

speed with which the cars move, include them you have to do will be minimal differences between the various wings etc; I would love if I were older then I planned a car Groups In B. that you put o.ti like without restriction. Now is clearly Joso some regulations, you can not deviating. And. as a point, even in the wind a GC cars show identical, unfortunately.
Infinity to b6en for two that we saw back in chzami in Spain tests of not exactly mean?
Itis Moss first tests in Finland, the same time the OIgothp had to outo- of the Ta indication kinpto test $ i Tth5i 1 or 2, I designed with my finger on the rear window which was filled with mud. As you know what divides by zero h> c infinity anyway. So infinite division by zero means no
Phi
° P 'the! Forever in test kilometers, the way we think, all the saw TopiGii, I explained to mean "no Iiiiii3" and liked. And 10 for two means is the second car. You can imagine, we were last week in Spain, and we found something we can "Lik> CCDM Sion suspension area, and we decided to come and ^ Fdomada. The left all there - (rootiga, car, everything. The way
we do this einoi. We can do tests whenever you want. In Finland einoi advantage to do tests outside AHG virus ergostosio: if you want to optimize the shift time or to put driving kilometers the engine, you can do it there.
Besides your specialization in the post, you have the supervision and design department - even the aerodynamics?
Yes, the iroti time. My job is about as the arranger. Anozito find specialists in each field. I can not have an opinion in the wind, but I can tell them that the center of pressure I want the lift to be at low speeds in front of the center of gravity to the front axle, while as rising speeds must be moved backwards - aerodynamics balance. How you accomplish should find those, I do not like to know that. Only part of the suspension is all mine. and the rest belongs to the specialists of each sector. It is never GHB ii3i $ novyi. iote is one.
BT okinEI

[stefanvv]

....aaaand it continues:


n
Naka
APOKAiIITIKO
INTERVIEW MICHAEL ZOTOS
W.
ISE. anxious c * "M ^ 0 \ iis Ellis chron.as next to .. PoioMonk echozyme can only show 0
^ * * ToiZ ™ -ve marry a good car i ^ sChi. 5 them to be, the HOY seeks the Top ™, pg.
t "p'doik drivers need:
ZZa J driver will VRE ,, oLLa chreiazeta, etc., proper goodbye £ ££ iisomadas. O golden times when omsdo telling MoRvv napinainei ierra Mr. Let destroyed many cars have ptheLe p radio on. From io middle 2000s Ms., after the, groups say Sioux drivers "do attack, but be careful not to take it off" ... How can the IP, q is a child 22 years old, who came from a small village of F. , nlsndias or France Ms. suddenly has 50 journalists Ms, flash on it? T, it is important for us: we need a driver of the three, in a fight in a special, to FC, "without tail". It is the only way to understand what work you have done. If he wins a special with this car, I will know that the work we do is good. And let it off from the road after. If you are constantly on the fifth or third positions, all the time we ate what plokokia will put in differentials, what springs will be exhausted in an interminable discussion, in a vicious circle. I'm sick of listening to comments the "confidence" and "feeling" [eoiiiathioth and ivthiiis]. Increasingly, the ultra-fast drivers. The Topigti, for example: Totitii can the tests be gouged our soul if we had to make convergence half millimeter in front or behind one millimeters. or asking two tenths camber front, but when special win and bring the outokinito Ms, the count in 5thGnioth. may have seven millimeters differential, a camber was half. the other one was two - the outokinito was Scorpio. Thus special win. You cross a threshold. Ms, you are talking about driving. All groups have need of such a guide, who will say "I will now go to the limits and let us go." Mrs. team must be bold and tell him "I do not care if you go out of the way, show me how fast you can go thou Ms, the outokinito", otherwise you will not know and will never know. shalt type MoRthth driving.
The advancement to the top of the world level is essential to deepen more, like an engineer and as a man?
In engineering so you anyway go so deep. All it gives you is the human condition - in terms of fatigue, options to reach your limits. Always learning more things, this was when you were in a slightly lower position. Always talking, especially in motorsport, to experts and learn from them, ask how everything is made, you learn. As a man, he has. to do. with your choices mainly - is. u. balance with your o.kogeneia ... I have started a lot of traveling since 1998. I the beginning I made it clear to ToGiiii that will help to full throttle, then kaievaso little speed. And indeed, now I spend more time here I find my balance.

>



the six

The young Greek, not only engineers, * live in a bleak climate, would you recommend to a new attempt to follow a similar path?
To ,, of course, as long as you like too. The hardest part is to find what it is that you like, then it is easy. We need to get over (Ed .: the climate in Greece) - if you are, here and studying here should be finished. These HCV learning is excellent in some areas, not so well in others, must get over it, and then tear away and go do what you like. O.ti though is - suffice to clarify first what is. The saying and design this group: to design the fastest car is not objective, is the result. That is the difference. Not wake up every morning and say "I want to design the fastest car", but you wake up every day and say "I want to do all my best in my work today." The result is a fast drive, not the objective. Otherwise very anxious and lose control.
Nicolas Tompazis and you're the Greeks who have reached higher than all the world motorspor - how it makes you feel that?
Tired! However, because I liked it too. I found it almost natural. If you like something so much, there is no other life goal. Especially before I family and kids, all I did was to read and try to learn by asking everyone, drivers, technicians. Now. if it happened to reach up there or just above are subject to circumstances and others. He has to do with the fact that we worked very warm as a team - the chief designer. the eiithi thpsiiththG program \ L / P (k me and dthiioG thisiiththG. we stayed in a house. P * is not one straddled the pole. No matter the role of each, but more that wept together when we saw the car coming out of the factory. This HOY planning on paper and do not know if this is the most important, we will have ready in March and March see it ready. despite who is in charge. Who has designed. one can not say. all have put their ideas. L.
Inside you can say that "I started watching the nnvIathsvvGa in Platanaki. and I ended up working too in all this. " yourself to remember all this and nothing else matters - two years perhaps one can not remember anything. So you inside you. Being good to yourself? This never has been more important than everything?


* Are: the perisgoteri
pre) nltheia vazeis both kaaftero result HAVE, BUT when the curve arrives at PEAK
after enter the case. the ioev was so FAST because he had life outside rallies - was isorropimenos in mind. "
ABOUT MICHAEL
Fthinoporaki of * 92 was when we first met. We participated as IththGi-GP3ith $ in a match daVGTIvIth at Sesi. He 25 with green-stroke motorbike, a decade older I with four-stroke red. Ten year and something later recovers. Spring D3, evening in the café Apaleia, the first Turkish race that counted in nYVO. He was chief engineer of a quadrillion world champion. His Togtigti MthKiivi at $ yv3Gy.
Intervening few years, making difficult but correct choices in his professional life. gathering valuable experience, until it's time for the most important so far rung. Technical director in Togoiv WFGD group will come back as Othzoo aimed else? Securities.
0 Michael then, is a proof that a child from Koropi can do what dreams and distant to the dream. Enough to believe, to work, to crave. Let us learn to do wheelies, to calm this heart ache and he and his small group of Grammou._N.S.Z.

Afterwards a * a diachrony love Michael Zotos - edon / a 6ooo $ iso Grommou. with throttle turned, * back skonGK LMOs ^ ^ wt ^ I
Michael eoiot .. o / ninino * "the 1967 Koropi, aiopsoip 'o' o 'LE Engineering section virus Po / w' '/ /' to'92 Mao Meiopoch" the "n 0>) in 5ouiP <iGirioi and the first '* work in British ogonistik-' s groups miike the virus end • 96 to rally as mechanic of berries. Three years later, he became a member of the racing team of Der MvIIoeK. and then the RvIIiAP and Rtoapnv - where was epikepsalis engineer groups of Mii5yvi5iYi and $ yv3Gy respectively in WBC Before accepting the call of Topn ™ MvKiivi for the technical direction of Togoiv the WFGD. He worked in America and 5y6thGy league £ R3iIgeG055 CONDITION.
I

[N.O.T]

Whoever reads that monstrocity stefanvv posted in one sitting will have the privilege to ride with me through the gates of Valhala (i will lead though... you will follow behind) and have demi-god status through eternity...

are you serious son ??

[dupanton]

I will - Infinity divided by zero is still infinity, so no limits. Just in that case the zero must have a sign, be it positive or negative, and as TMR didn't put one, how do You like it to be?

Not true at all... infinity devided by zero is undefined...

[AL14]

bla bla


Take some rest my friend. lol
;)

[stefanvv]

Not true at all... infinity devided by zero is undefined...

because it doesn't have a sign

[stefanvv]

Take some rest my friend. lol
;)

just wanted to help. I already knew what will come up. No worries took me no more than 5 minutes, the reading was little longer:D

However the introduction part is "entertaining":)

[stefanvv]

are you serious son ??

You're not God and I'm not Your son, so retrain from such classification.

[N.O.T]

Not true at all... infinity devided by zero is undefined...

So they hired an engineer with no math knowledge... that can end really really well... like Flop well...

[nafpaktos]

My bionic eye says that toyota wrc is by far slower compared to citroen wrc.
@AL14 We the greeks are used to being blackmailed but we do not surrender(we follow the example of our prime-minister hahahaha).The european politicians blackmail us,the forum members blackmail us,i am really tired of this.

[AL14]

My bionic eye says that toyota wrc is by far slower compared to citroen wrc.
@AL14 We the greeks are used to being blackmailed but we do not surrender(we follow the example of our prime-minister hahahaha).The european politicians blackmail us,the forum members blackmail us,i am really tired of this.

Now I feel sad. Please forgive me.
:D

[Lundefaret]

Whoever reads that monstrocity stefanvv posted in one sitting will have the privilege to ride with me through the gates of Valhala (i will lead though... you will follow behind) and have demi-god status through eternity...

are you serious son ??

Knowing a thing or two about Norse mythology I would doubt you qualify for a ride trough the gates of Valhalla, so maybe its a bit frisky to sell tickets for the ride? :)

[dimviii]

Τoyota testing at Catalunya

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck6mLd6XEAADWoy.jpg

[janvanvurpa]

Τoyota testing at Catalunya

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck6mLd6XEAADWoy.jpg


Wow! Action shot! Wonder if they are testing local conditions called "siesta"? :snore:

[dimviii]

Catalunya

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck7KhOEWUAEvXQZ.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck7Kr1sXAAAQRHa.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck7Ku3TXAAAnwDL.jpg

[danon]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGoUmKthETW/

[danon]

https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13442649_1017487845038416_2078343903716534758_o.jp g
https://www.facebook.com/jordi.oliverasmejias?fref=photo

[Red bull]

Any translation of this article? http://www.mundodeportivo.com/motor/rallies/20160210/302036994312/tommi-makinen-quiere-atar-a-kalle-rovanpera.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[stefanvv]

Any translation of this article? http://www.mundodeportivo.com/motor/rallies/20160210/302036994312/tommi-makinen-quiere-atar-a-kalle-rovanpera.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I used google translate and seems Makkinen wants to recruit him for his wrc team for the future. It also says Makkinen's concern for lack of talent in current wrc field to challenge Ogier.

[AndyRAC]

Hardly a surprise - he's Finnish and talented; where else would he go to?

Slightly connected 'news' - but while watching Le Mans they said that the LMP1 programme, and the new WRC programme is being financed from the R&D division, not marketing.

[itix]

Knowing a thing or two about Norse mythology I would doubt you qualify for a ride trough the gates of Valhalla, so maybe its a bit frisky to sell tickets for the ride? :)
A bit late but I second this...

[danon]

https://www.facebook.com/doidosporrally/videos/1005461056217338/

https://www.facebook.com/doidosporrally/videos/1005566542873456/

https://www.facebook.com/doidosporrally/videos/1005763672853743/

https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13585053_1005657339531043_7990445508712090841_o.jp g

[danon]

Test Toyota Yaris WRC 2017 - Juho Hanninen - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k9qLCMK824

[Simmi]

Michael Zotos has left Toyota. Confirmed by Lehtinen in Motorsport News.

No word on why. The piece also says there have been reported issues with the transmission and cooling of the engine bay. Expected to start asphalt testing in the next month.

[dimviii]

unfortunately bad news for the project...

[Mirek]

I agree. There must be some very good reason for such step just 5 months before everything must be ready for homologation.

[N.O.T]

the flop begins...

[HarriK]

Jumping in Finland road: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATLAjKrI2kI

[stefanvv]

cooling of the engine bay.

Hardly big surprise with such small space.

[EightGear]

the flop begins...
How many times has it begun by now?

[N.O.T]

How many times has it begun by now?

the end is the fun part... not the beginning.

the car looks really slow, todays WRCs are faster than this thing.

[danon]

... the car looks really slow, todays WRCs are faster than this thing.

LOL...

https://s3.scoopwhoop.com/osi/jok/10.gif

[er88]

the end is the fun part... not the beginning.

the car looks really slow, todays WRCs are faster than this thing.
You almost sound as if you want it to fail? A strong Toyota would be great for the championship

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[N.O.T]

You almost sound as if you want it to fail? A strong Toyota would be great for the championship

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

A strong toyota would be a professional team not a family business.

[EstWRC]

more about Zotos leaving http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125186/tech-chief-quits-toyota-wrc-project

[rogef]

Some videos of the tests this week.

There were simultaneous tests in Portugal and Finland

Finland

https://youtu.be/ATLAjKrI2kI

https://youtu.be/udOMklpxL0Y

https://youtu.be/Z0EOhSF5_qs

Portugal

https://youtu.be/S-mHX75n6K8

https://youtu.be/Nj1GxtQOg7o

https://youtu.be/JL_tJyt3Oek

https://youtu.be/P71jUyobQ3E

https://youtu.be/xcsyu_CEu48

It looks like it has evolved a lot

The next year promises

;)

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125186/tech-chief-quits-toyota-wrc-project

[pantealex]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125186/tech-chief-quits-toyota-wrc-project

How is that story different than story in post #1429 ?

[dimviii]

more about Zotos leaving http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125186/tech-chief-quits-toyota-wrc-project

who are the other two persons left Toyota?

[rallyfiend]

who are the other two persons left Toyota?

I can't imagine living / moving to the middle of rural Finland is all that fantastic...

[Franky]

I can't imagine living / moving to the middle of rural Finland is all that fantastic...

It's not Siberia ...

[pantealex]

I can't imagine living / moving to the middle of rural Finland is all that fantastic...

When Tommi asked where people would like to work, answer was "middle of forest, where stage type roads are"
as you know there was many options where team place should be, workers did´t want to stay near Helsinki.
M-Sport is also middle of nowhere.

[Rallyper]

I can't imagine living / moving to the middle of rural Finland is all that fantastic...

If you have a good employment and love what you´re doing, there no bad place. And nearby Jyväskylä isn´t bad at all.

[Lundefaret]

In the Greek interview with Zotos its a lot of "me", and in the statement from the team its a lot of "we", so that can be a factor?

[tommeke_B]

In the Greek interview with Zotos its a lot of "me", and in the statement from the team its a lot of "we", so that can be a factor?

From what I heard Zotos already had a reputation for being "a bit" difficult to work with when he was at Prodrive.

[pantealex]

From what I heard Zotos already had a reputation for being "a bit" difficult to work with when he was at Prodrive.

and Tommi is not "Easy" also.

[Rallyper]

Two stubborn fellows. But only one chief.

[Simmi]

But Tommi worked with Zotos before right? So in terms of personality it shouldn't necessarily have been a surprise.

Although I guess before Tommi was 'only' the driver.

[Rallyper]

In terms of personality it all comes to the edge when working VERY close.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tommi Mäkinen´s comments to YLE: "No Loeb or Solberg to Toyota WRC 2017, but maybe Hänninen and Lappi".

http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-9014917

[N.O.T]

Finish village team LOL.... but will it flop ?

[itix]

Finish village team LOL.... but will it flop ?
I think it has been proven more than once that this is not a Finnish village team...

Now can we focus on what we do know instead of silly attempts at degrading and pure speculation?

Thanks

[N.O.T]

I think it has been proven more than once that this is not a Finnish village team...

Now can we focus on what we do know instead of silly attempts at degrading and pure speculation?

Thanks

it will be fun when they enter the championship... fun fun fun, then we can see who was right and was not.

[Lundefaret]

it will be fun when they enter the championship... fun fun fun, then we can see who was right and was not.

We already know who was NOT :)

[N.O.T]

no need to rush into conclusions, you will miss all the fun that way.

[Simmi]

Reading between the lines it looks like they probably won't be running three cars from the start of next season.

I think after this and Citroen's announcement we can reasonably assume that the three-car points scoring ruling is dead in the water.

[Simmi]

Seems N.O.T isn't the only guy expecting this project to fail. Interesting Colin Clark column from MN last week talking about the service park chatter. Anyone know who the other two guys are that have left?

https://twitter.com/Krisse_Sohlberg/status/752403488160747520?lang=en

[AL14]

Seems N.O.T isn't the only guy expecting this project to fail. Interesting Colin Clark column from MN last week talking about the service park chatter. Anyone know who the other two guys are that have left?

https://twitter.com/Krisse_Sohlberg/status/752403488160747520?lang=en

Well I would not bet a cent on them.
Of course I can't be sure of them to fail... but all the clue we have seems to show it.

- All the drivers are refusing to join them, and it is not because of money since they have budget.
- They started testing late and have not a proper headquarter
- People like Zotos are saying bye bye
- It all seems confusing, and it is difficult to get information (but this can be silly jourinalists fault). And when it is difficult to get information it is often because someone don't want to show its problem...

[Rallyper]

Though I think N.O.T. ´s starting point was quite opposite to what happens now, there´s starting to be other glimpses of things happen that isn´t to good.

Or maybe it´s media-talk. You know when media wants things to go s**t. You know tabloids... The write what they want to happen, bcs then they´ll sell more papers.

The advices to TM in the article though was spot on, and still we don´t know a single thing about how TM is organizing his team. Maybe he´s doing just so.

[Barreis]

Though I think N.O.T. ´s starting point was quite opposite to what happens now, there´s starting to be other glimpses of things happen that isn´t to good.

Or maybe it´s media-talk. You know when media wants things to go s**t. You know tabloids... The write what they want to happen, bcs then they´ll sell more papers.

The advices to TM in the article though was spot on, and still we don´t know a single thing about how TM is organizing his team. Maybe he´s doing just so.

What tabloids?! There're no more tabloids about rally. Almost amateur sport... :P

[AndyRAC]

It’s not looking promising. The WRC needs another strong team –and with their history, Toyota are expected to put up a huge challenge.
I think most people thought that TMG in Cologne would be running the programme – and ran some of the early development testing with Sarrazin& Lindholm…..

And then the bombshell; Tommi Makinen’s team would be runningthe programme. A team with little experience of running cars in international series (apart from Gp N cars, mainly in Finland).

I still can’t figure out this decision – and seems to be at the personal instruction of Akio Toyoda, who probably meant well.

You wish them well, but everything seems to be pointing to disappointment: inexperienced team, basing the team in Finland, no ‘top line’drivers, personnel leaving, etc

[Franky]

Let's sit back and relax. Still a long way to go.

[N.O.T]

Let's sit back and relax. Still a long way to go.

agree, it also makes the whole experience far better, in the end we can see who was right and who not and who flopped and who did not.

[Simmi]

The proof will be in the stage times for sure.

It does remind me a bit of the Nissan LMP1 situation that happened recently. You started to get rumblings from inside the project that things weren't going well and they couldn't attract drivers. There's no smoke without fire as they say. But I don't subscribe to the theory that there are people in the sport that want to see Toyota fail. Who does that really benefit? Despite people loving bad news, surely the better storylines are if they beat VW/Ogier.

What Nissan did have that Toyota don't was PR and social media across the programme. Really the only information we find out is when Tommi picks up the phone to a journalist or gets interviewed at a rally. It continues to be a massive missed opportunity and people fill the space with rumours. That said, Nissan made such a big noise about their Le Mans programme that when it did tank it added up to massive humiliation. Toyota have made no noise about their WRC programme.

[pantealex]

Well I would not bet a cent on them.
Of course I can't be sure of them to fail... but all the clue we have seems to show it.

- They started testing late and have not a proper headquarter


They were 1st to test real 17" car, but maybe that is late...
And their HQ is as good as others (I have been there and other places also)

Otherwise I admit that they may have some problems.

[AL14]

They were 1st to test real 17" car, but maybe that is late...
And their HQ is as good as others (I have been there and other places also)

Otherwise I admit that they may have some problems.

Ok, thanks for the clarification. You mean that actually VW was testing a mule and not a real '17 car right?
Then ok, but I think it is late anyway since they could have had much more advantage (and they needed it since it is their first year in the championship).
As for HQ I can't judge. If you were there you know better for sure.
I stay pessimistic though, since it still doesn't seem to be a winning project. I hope to be wrong of course. :)

[jacko]

agree, it also makes the whole experience far better, in the end we can see who was right and who not and who flopped and who did not.

And as often you have mostly got it wrong. So my advice (still after all these years) is please do some good homework in the future before you post your crap empty comments..

[N.O.T]

And as often you have mostly got it wrong. So my advice (still after all these years) is please do some good homework in the future before you post your crap empty comments..

do not be hasty kid... patience is a virtue, the fun only has begun.

[AndyRAC]

The proof will be in the stage times for sure.

It does remind me a bit of the Nissan LMP1 situation that happened recently. You started to get rumblings from inside the project that things weren't going well and they couldn't attract drivers. There's no smoke without fire as they say. But I don't subscribe to the theory that there are people in the sport that want to see Toyota fail. Who does that really benefit? Despite people loving bad news, surely the better storylines are if they beat VW/Ogier.

What Nissan did have that Toyota don't was PR and social media across the programme. Really the only information we find out is when Tommi picks up the phone to a journalist or gets interviewed at a rally. It continues to be a massive missed opportunity and people fill the space with rumours. That said, Nissan made such a big noise about their Le Mans programme that when it did tank it added up to massive humiliation. Toyota have made no noise about their WRC programme.

Interesting you use that example. Darren Cox got plenty of air time promoting the programme - and then plenty of grief following the debacle.
Toyota have a PR department - so why isn't it being used? The WEC programme is fairly open for the press, and RLM have had special programmes about Cologne. Yet the WRC programme seems to be the complete opposite. Maybe it just reflects Tommi, who wasn't known to offer 'sound bites' and interesting interviews.

[Rallyper]

What tabloids?! There're no more tabloids about rally. Almost amateur sport... :P

No, you misunderstood. We all, well, those who don´t want TM to suceed, writes the stuff that suits the mission.

[Rallyper]

MAybe the best thing is to keep quiet until all stuff is settled. testing more important than media. However handling your employies oc also most important.

[J4MIE]

I can't imagine living / moving to the middle of rural Finland is all that fantastic...

Have you been to the beautiful Finnish countryside?

Not all of us want to work in a city to be near bars or nightclubs.

[Mariusz]

agree, it also makes the whole experience far better, in the end we can see who was right and who not and who flopped and who did not.
You really need to tell us your definition of flop, because without it we'll never know if you were right.

[Jack4688`]

What tabloids?! There're no more tabloids about rally. Almost amateur sport... :P

Autosport and Motorsport News? Anything penned by David Evans is just pure sensationalism

[Simmi]

Interesting you use that example. Darren Cox got plenty of air time promoting the programme - and then plenty of grief following the debacle.
Toyota have a PR department - so why isn't it being used? The WEC programme is fairly open for the press, and RLM have had special programmes about Cologne. Yet the WRC programme seems to be the complete opposite. Maybe it just reflects Tommi, who wasn't known to offer 'sound bites' and interesting interviews.

I think this is at the core of most people's issues/reservations about the team. In that it doesn't 'feel' like a manufacturer effort in how it's been created, run and presented. And in a lot of ways it feels remote and separate from the Toyota factory.

But I agree with others that you can't write anything off until we see the car run competitively.

[Jack4688`]

...Nissan made such a big noise about their Le Mans programme that when it did tank it added up to massive humiliation...

Darren Cox got plenty of air time promoting the programme - and then plenty of grief following the debacle.


I think the humiliation started when the programme was announced - Darren Cox's words were excruciating to read, I wish I could find the article again on any motorsport news outlet. Not only were his choice of words embarrassing but you knew it would be failure unless they won in 2016 (or was it 2015?), because that's the target he bloody well set!

No such claims from Toyota (correct me if I am wrong but I read nothing in the article on autosport when Akio Toyoda made it official) so as far as I see it, failure will be if they do not achieve all they have claimed thus far: to compete in WRC from 2017

[Barreis]

No, you misunderstood. We all, well, those who don´t want TM to suceed, writes the stuff that suits the mission.

I don't know anyone here that doesn't want toyota to succeed. These're comments about how TM operates. More different winners, better for sport...

[N.O.T]

You really need to tell us your definition of flop, because without it we'll never know if you were right.

suzuki and mini.

[danon]

... Anything penned by David Evans is just pure sensationalism

https://m.popkey.co/7a6c83/0rzrW.gif

[Rallyper]

suzuki and mini.

Nah, very wrong example. Nor Suzuki or Mini factories were involved back then. Didn´t even help them moving on.

Toyota on the contrary, finances the whole project.

Are you God?

[N.O.T]

Nah, very wrong example. Nor Suzuki or Mini factories were involved back then. Didn´t even help them moving on.

Toyota on the contrary, finances the whole project.

Are you God?

That is why the flop of village people will be even more spectacular... it will be a nice feast though of all the finish failures of the past.

Everyone is invited to join the flop guys, just do not jump into conclusions too fast.

[stefanvv]

Are you God?

You do know this isn't a question, right? Sorry for OT.

[itix]

The proof will be in the stage times for sure.

It does remind me a bit of the Nissan LMP1 situation that happened recently. You started to get rumblings from inside the project that things weren't going well and they couldn't attract drivers. There's no smoke without fire as they say. But I don't subscribe to the theory that there are people in the sport that want to see Toyota fail. Who does that really benefit? Despite people loving bad news, surely the better storylines are if they beat VW/Ogier.

What Nissan did have that Toyota don't was PR and social media across the programme. Really the only information we find out is when Tommi picks up the phone to a journalist or gets interviewed at a rally. It continues to be a massive missed opportunity and people fill the space with rumours. That said, Nissan made such a big noise about their Le Mans programme that when it did tank it added up to massive humiliation. Toyota have made no noise about their WRC programme.
I agree 100 percent about the fact that the rumors stem entirely from the lack of updates from the team.

Lack of information always create rumors and misinformation, it's human nature.

[Lundefaret]

A driver that could be intersting for Toyota is actually PG Andersson, he still have a lot of unfinished business in the WRC.

[Andre Oliveira]

Agree with Lundefaret. And i like Juho. Give him a proper chance.

[Rallyper]

Agree with Lundefaret. And i like Juho. Give him a proper chance.

Yes, proper chance means drive as many WRC rallies as possible. Look at Tanak... for example.

[Mirek]

P.G. is 36 years old and has been out of the circus for quite a long time. I can't see how any team would be intrested in him considering that he would need at least a season or two of learning like anybody else.

[itix]

A driver that could be intersting for Toyota is actually PG Andersson, he still have a lot of unfinished business in the WRC.
He was almost beaten by Emil Bergkvist in a group N Mitsubishi (while driving a Skoda Fabia wrc). I don't think so...

[Rallyper]

PG has more to offer, no doubt. But In case swedish driver, that would´nt be Tidemand (locked up) so must be Bergkvist. But that is a long shot, I know.

[SubaruNorway]

He was almost beaten by Emil Bergkvist in a group N Mitsubishi (while driving a Skoda Fabia wrc). I don't think so...

Pretty sure that was the Rally PG had some engine issues?

[itix]

Not sure we are talking about the same rally but I doubt he had engine issues the whole rally. Bergkvist was close to his times (or better) on all the stages and ended the rally about 1 minute and some seconds off his pace if I remember well.

I agree 100 percent with Mirek, he would be nowhere near my "talents to look out for" list for next year.

[stefanvv]

P.G. is 36 years old and has been out of the circus for quite a long time.

So is Juho Hanninen, more or less, I don't know exactly..... And he is N1 Toyota driver so far....

[Lundefaret]

He was almost beaten by Emil Bergkvist in a group N Mitsubishi (while driving a Skoda Fabia wrc). I don't think so...

He is the fastest current Swedish rally driver, also faster than Pontus. Like Meeke he would challenge for best stage times.

[Mirek]

So is Juho Hanninen, more or less, I don't know exactly..... And he is N1 Toyota driver so far....

I know but regarding Juho I am not always rational... :)

[Rallyper]

Not sure we are talking about the same rally but I doubt he had engine issues the whole rally. Bergkvist was close to his times (or better) on all the stages and ended the rally about 1 minute and some seconds off his pace if I remember well.

Which rally are you talking about?

[Sulland]

I would get Nikara into the test group. He has natural speed, amd is similar to Latvala amd McRae in that respect.
in the right environment he could learn a lot, maybe Tommi is the man!

[AMSS]

I would get Nikara into the test group. He has natural speed, amd is similar to Latvala amd McRae in that respect.
in the right environment he could learn a lot, maybe Tommi is the man!

Nikara is already testing the car..

[Sulland]

Nikara is already testing the car..
He is, did not know!

[Rallyper]

But hey, three Finns in Toyota? Two are enough. Third driver if it happens, should be top driver, if anyone available, and counted as #1.

[Sulland]

He is the fastest current Swedish rally driver, also faster than Pontus. Like Meeke he would challenge for best stage times.

V&V Management should get him a Ford or Skoda, to get a real measurement!

[giù tutto!]

V&V Management should get him a Ford or Skoda, to get a real measurement!

The achievements of the V&V are...?

[itix]

He is the fastest current Swedish rally driver, also faster than Pontus. Like Meeke he would challenge for best stage times.
Pontus hasn't really had any speed until very recently so I am not sure that statement is correct still.

I would have agreed with you one or two years ago but now not so much.

[itix]

Which rally are you talking about?
South Swedish rally maybe? It was one of the National championship events. If you check resultatservice I am sure you can find it (abroad with slow connection so I can't)

[pantealex]

The achievements of the V&V are...?

V&V were behind Ogier...

[pantealex]

http://www.mtv.fi/sport/ralli

5 new story from Tommi/Toyota (in finnish only)

[giù tutto!]

V&V were behind Ogier...

Really...I have always thought that FFSA was the main factor behind Ogier...?

[tomhlord]

Pontus hasn't really had any speed until very recently.

How about that time he lead Rally Sweden overall in a Fiest RRC? Or when he was in the top 5 in 2013 before engine failure? He's been quick, but only recently got a manufacturer drive.