Toyota announces WRC plans

[MikeD]

Hänninen? Are they serious? obviously not. I unfortunately knew that Mäkkinen would make it finnish nationalism over quality.

Pathetic choice!

[Rallyper]

Hänninen? Are they serious? obviously not. I unfortunately knew that Mäkkinen would make it finnish nationalism over quality.

Pathetic choice!

Who would you have preferred? Why do you think Hanninen is the first of the official names? There are more to come. Maybe surprises.

[N.O.T]

Hänninen? Are they serious? obviously not. I unfortunately knew that Mäkkinen would make it finnish nationalism over quality.

Pathetic choice!

We are talking about a guy who has posters of himself driving a rival manufacturers car on the OFFICIAL GARAGE OF TOYOTA TEAM, what did you expect ? Garbage dog without an owner playing team manager. He flopped his production cup team and moved on to flop bigger and more official stuff now.

Imagine if you were an owner of a company and the manager you hired has posters of a rival company in your bussines because he was successful with them.

And the Toyota people are worthless enough not to say anything, lets see when this farce flops and laugh.

[MikeD]

We are talking about a guy who has posters of himself driving a rival manufacturers car on the OFFICIAL GARAGE OF TOYOTA TEAM, what did you expect ? Garbage dog without an owner playing team manager. He flopped his production cup team and moved on to flop bigger and more official stuff now.

Imagine if you were an owner of a company and the manager you hired has posters of a rival company in your bussines because he was successful with them.

And the Toyota people are worthless enough not to say anything, let's see when this farce flops and laugh.

Without a doubt it has failure written all over it. But Toyota has been a level below pathetic in all kinds of Motorsport in this millennium. It's been failure after failure and giving up all kinds of attempts before they had any chance to succeed. But I guess their WRC project this time will take the price for the most stupid and useless attempt.

[Rallyper]

Without a doubt it has failure written all over it. But Toyota has been a level below pathetic in all kinds of Motorsport in this millennium. It's been failure after failure and giving up all kinds of attempts before they had any chance to succeed. But I guess their WRC project this time will take the price for the most stupid and useless attempt.

Please you must be more explicit in your thoughts. Not just throwing words.

[Sub_Skoda]

Good news for Juho. No surprise, but good news for him.

[Mirek]

Please you must be more explicit in your thoughts. Not just throwing words.

Per, even the blind must see that there is something wrong with the Toyota team. As people say there's no smoke without a fire and there has been a lot of smoke going from Mäkinen's team. We all saw all kinds of strange things one can imagine somehow happening with the team. I can only hope it won't end in an epic failure but frankly I am not very optimistic.

Anyway fingers crossed for Juho.

[Rallyper]

Once something´s being said enough many times it becomes a truth. Mirek - you also started to believe before all is settled and done.

[Allez Andruet]

Hänninen probably was the best one available for this assignment (2016 testing + 2017 full season). Let's keep in mind that Mäkinen tried to sign Meeke for this role first (atleast it was strongly rumoured), but once he decided to stay at Citroen, Hänninen was the obvious choice.

You don't win the titles Hänninen won (IRC, PWRC, ERC) by accident, so the talent is there. In his WRC drives to date, he's had some quite good (2013 MC, 2014 IT, PL, FI) and some subpar perfomances (2013 FI, 2014 PT, GB), but the "good result" hasn't materialized so far. Let's hope 2017 changes all that.

Let's see what the pace of the Yaris WRC will be... you can say that it looks slow on some videos - it's hard to argue that, but so did the i20 WRC back in late 2013 when the first test videos appeared... I guess we'll have to wait till MC to find out.

For sure Toyota is an underdog for 2017, but if the car is anywhere near its rivals, they're atleast a live dog with Hänninen and Lappi (and whoever the third driver will be).

[Mirek]

Once something´s being said enough many times it becomes a truth. Mirek - you also started to believe before all is settled and done.

Name any successful team which managed to change the complete team structure, the team location and the car design during the development phase, which managed to change technical director again after all those changes which took place before. Add to that questionable all-Finn structure, an obvious cult of Tommi's personality, missing top drivers on the market (or missing effort to steal top drivers from other teams) or not very convincing test footage. How can anyone be optimistic about the result is beyond me but I admit I will be very happy to be proven wrong.

[BigWorm]

From out of nowhere

[TWRC]

...

Let's see what the pace of the Yaris WRC will be... you can say that it looks slow on some videos - it's hard to argue that, but so did the i20 WRC back in late 2013 when the first test videos appeared... I guess we'll have to wait till MC to find out.

...
The problem with this is that the Hyundai was looking slow at the beginning of the development (and got a bit better later though, but still wasn't really good), but the Yaris looks slow about one month before the start of the homologation process. If they can pull the car up in the remaining month performance- and reliability-wise, then OK, otherwise they seem to have come to a standstill. Don't get me wrong, I wish them all the best, but as many others are saying, the signs are not the best. So yes, more than likely it will be a learning year.

[stefanvv]

Hanninen seems the obvious choice of the freely available drivers with more experience. Let's see the others.

[macebig]

Weird no one noticed Makinen finding his old co driver a gig.....:devil::devil:

[Rallyper]

Name any successful team which managed to change the complete team structure, the team location and the car design during the development phase, which managed to change technical director again after all those changes which took place before. Add to that questionable all-Finn structure, an obvious cult of Tommi's personality, missing top drivers on the market (or missing effort to steal top drivers from other teams) or not very convincing test footage. How can anyone be optimistic about the result is beyond me but I admit I will be very happy to be proven wrong.

You seems have been affected by all that´s been said on this forum. Or you experienced all that yourself? You seen tests on sight? You know which drivers to come? You assesed the new structure of the team? based on comon knowledge, what makes you think location harms the project? Where a flie in the office when discussions were made between Tommi and his emploies?
I wouldn´t think so.

So much more nice if we look forward to Toyotas commitment and hopes by being more positive. Wasn´t long ago everyones highest wish was more factoryteams in WRC. By bashing before they even competed looks foolish to me.

[Mirek]

You seems have been affected by all that´s been said on this forum. Or you experienced all that yourself?

Sorry? I have nothing more to say about the subject.

[N.O.T]

With the current useless team of amateurs on all levels Toyota should be happy if they flop Mini style, but i think we are dealing with a Suzuki kind of flop.

[Rallyper]

Sorry? I have nothing more to say about the subject.

Wise. Me too. Let´s wait and see before we talk further.

[Mk2 RS2000]

Sorry? I have nothing more to say about the subject.

Excellent news

[danon]

Sorry? I have nothing more to say about the subject.

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000406343399/a25bb819a838724316f8b68737ca1126.jpeg

[danon]

With the current useless team of amateurs on all levels Toyota should be happy if they flop Mini style, but i think we are dealing with a Suzuki kind of flop.

http://s5.postimg.org/ld57v185j/r_F.jpg

[danon]

http://s5.postimg.org/50v65attz/ttup.jpg

[Rally Power]

Criticism is needed in an open society but there’s a limit: the insult. Calling garbage dog to an ex WRC champion or autist to the world biggest car company chairman may appear as bold soundbites, but they’re nothing more than useless insults; like so many others produced by the forum troll.

On the other hand, it’s really puzzling to see genuine rally fans making so many negative prejudgments over TMR/Toyota WRC project.

What’s wrong in replacing a structure that wasn’t delivering their main goal, a Le Mans win, for other that was purposely developed having WRC in mind? What’s wrong on choosing an ex WRC champion, and succeed rally tuner, to manage that new structure? What’s wrong about creating the new structure over the manager’s existing rally base? What’s wrong about having their development driver on the team first year line up, probably in the company of a young promising driver? If we look in a reasonable and fair way we may actually see that there’s nothing wrong.

VW did a tremendous job setting a higher WRC competitive standard and new teams are automatically measured by it, but if others manus can’t immediately comply must we consider them a waste? Should we only value the qualities of the sport leader and reject their rival’s efforts? All competitors deserve to be praised; today’s underdog can become tomorrow’s champion.

[stefanvv]

Criticism is needed in an open society but there’s a limit: the insult. Calling garbage dog to an ex WRC champion or autist to the world biggest car company chairman may appear as bold soundbites, but they’re nothing more than useless insults; like so many others produced by the forum troll.

Besides all that, a critic should have some achievements in the subject of critics, am I right?

[dodge33cymru]

Great post Rally Power

[mohit]

nice post............

We should support them instead of criticising them always.

They are new and they might surprise all so keep calm and enjoy.

Support them !

[Grundo Farb]

On the other hand, it’s really puzzling to see genuine rally fans making so many negative prejudgments over TMR/Toyota WRC project.


Because it frustrates the hell out of Rally fans to see something being set-up which has so much history and pedigree with a huge element of amateurism.

VW set a benchmark by taking small steps with a plan, signing Ogier without a car and testing with the Fabia for a year.

Mini when it was set-up used Prodrive who had significant WRC experience and signed Sordo and Meeke. That car was also competitive but unfortunately there was no budget.

Hyundai signed Neuville and Sordo to develop the car and used Atkinson (history in the WRC), Hanninen (history in the WRC), and Paddon in the third car. They also assembled a team and stucture which had no partizan attachments, based in Germany with an International well funded team being pulled together.

The thing which bugs people about the Toyota approach is it is very hard to win the pole jump when you are an old, short and fat athlete using the wrong pole in the middle of winter.

It just doesn't feel set-up for success...

[Allez Andruet]

Because it frustrates the hell out of Rally fans to see something being set-up which has so much history and pedigree with a huge element of amateurism.
...and now we'd only need to know, what is this "huge element of amateurism".

Ofcourse VW set a benchmark, but how come it's so hard to understand, that there was no "Ogier" for Tommi to sign? Tommi tried to sign Meeke first, didn't he? I guess that was amateurish as well then...

Don't know for sure what the mix is at Hyundai for example, but one third of the Toyota staff are not Finns... so yeah, "partizan attachments" indeed ;)

[dodge33cymru]

That's a good point, there really was no Ogier to sign.

Back in 2011/2012, there was only a Citroen, based around Loeb, and a poorly performing Ford team, there were no other WRC options for Ogier to move to.

The same can be said for a lot of the top design and engineering minds in rallying, most likely.

Now, as seen by Neuville and Meeke's decisions, there are already three teams that are making competitive offers in the market and, arguably, not enough top line drivers to sign for them.

Yeah, I agree, Toyota don't appear to be doing this in the most professional way and part of me wishes it was still TMG running it, but they've taken a brave leap at a difficult time to do so too.

[Grundo Farb]

Ofcourse VW set a benchmark, but how come it's so hard to understand, that there was no "Ogier" for Tommi to sign? Tommi tried to sign Meeke first, didn't he? I guess that was amateurish as well then...

Don't know for sure what the mix is at Hyundai for example, but one third of the Toyota staff are not Finns... so yeah, "partizan attachments" indeed ;)

To reinforce what I mean about the amateur structure where a bunch of mates are employed in a shed in the Finnish Forest with Partizan attachments - From the Hyundai Motorsport Website:

Established on 19 December 2012, Hyundai Motorsport GmbH (HMSG) is responsible for Hyundai’s global motorsport activities and primarily for its World Rally Championship programme.

Based in Alzenau, Germany, the company has engineered Hyundai’s return to the WRC with a bespoke team of skilled staff who are constantly developing the WRC-specification i20.

The facility, which covers 8,200m², is split into an office area (2,125m²) and a workshop space (5,878m²). This area is where around 200 employees develop and support Hyundai’s entry into the WRC.

Ideal premises to set-up a WRC team

The workshop is divided into 10 assembly bays. With an engine workshop, sub-assembly areas, electronics, body shop, stores, design office and administration area, it leaves nothing to be desired. The factory is also fully fitted and operational with quality control, engine dynamics and a suspension test bench - offering the ideal premises to set up a WRC team.


The Way To Go
Located in the heart of Europe (Rhine-Main area) holds logistical advantages

The facility is only 50 km from Frankfurt international airport, and its convenient motorway connection provides easy access to key suppliers within Continental Europe. Close to other Hyundai facilities such as Hyundai Motor Europe (HME) in Offenbach and Hyundai Motor Technical Centre (HMETC) in Ruesselsheim, Alzenau is the perfect location for Hyundai Motorsport.

And now from the TMG website:

THE HOME OF HIGH PERFORMANCE

Toyota Motorsport GmbH (TMG) is a unique high-performance testing and development facility located in the centre of Europe; in Cologne, Germany.
Specialising in high technology, TMG is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Toyota Motor Corporation and offers its services to external clients as well as members of the Toyota family.
Constructed to the highest standards with no compromise on quality or functionality, the spacious 30,000m² facility and its highly-skilled staff of around 200 offer a remarkable range of machines, facilities and expertise.

From its roots at the pinnacle of world motorsport, TMG has developed into a one-stop shop for specialised services, not just from the automotive world but from most sectors.
We offer individually-tailored solutions to enhance your next project, from full project fulfilment to specific services – all under one roof at TMG, the home of high performance.
Check out our varied and flexible solutions using the navigation bar above. Inside each section you will find a detailed description of our services, including the specifications of our specialist technology.

Now, I still can't get my head around how a company which already has a track record of success in the sport, with an existing facility that has all the requirements including a strategic location would set something else up in a shed in Finland...

If Toyoda wanted Tommi as team principal then fine but to duplicate everything is crazy.

[Mirek]

...and now we'd only need to know, what is this "huge element of amateurism".

Ofcourse VW set a benchmark, but how come it's so hard to understand, that there was no "Ogier" for Tommi to sign? Tommi tried to sign Meeke first, didn't he? I guess that was amateurish as well then...

Don't know for sure what the mix is at Hyundai for example, but one third of the Toyota staff are not Finns... so yeah, "partizan attachments" indeed ;)

Don't You think that if the drivers actually believed in Toyota success they would be willing to switch teams just like Ogier did with VW or Neuville did with Hyundai? They both went into unknown waters, especially Ogier who had to compete first year with S2000 car.

[Grundo Farb]

Just reading the ToyotaGazoo "Our Story" made my eyes bleed at the FinJapanglish...

http://toyotagazooracing.com/our-story/

[Brynmor Pierce]

We've actually got Jarmo Lehtinen joining us on stage next Wednesday night at http://www.thecrw.co.uk/rally-forum-2016
Going to be interesting as he's in the segment directly after Malcolm Wilson, so two perspectives on team management.

[Simmi]

Anyone seen any contract length for Hanninen? Have to assume it's a one-year deal.


What Tommi's team have in 2017 is a 'prove it' year. I'm not sure Hanninen is ultimately the guy to do that - but I can't fault Tommi signing him at all. They needed someone who was effectively out of contract and could test the car all year and gain familiarity. Meeke didn't want it, Hirvonen didn't want it. Solberg/Loeb - who knows? Not sure if they were even asked, but the point is there were so few drivers who fitted that spec.

Anyone else you sign can't 'officially' drive your car until after the season so Tommi was backed into a corner. Plus he now has a willing 'team guy' in his driver squad. Which can be beneficial over a diva top-three talent in some ways when you're getting started.

But this is a prove it year. So the biggest question for me is who drives the third car? Do they go the mercenary route and take a guy like Ostberg with a bit of money. All he will prove is your reliability. When really you need someone to showcase speed.

[Allez Andruet]

Anyone seen any contract length for Hanninen? Have to assume it's a one-year deal.
From TGR press release:

He has signed a one-year contract, with an option to extend beyond 2017.

[dimviii]

Teemu / Rallirinki ‏@HartusvuoriWRC

Local newspaper @ksmlfi turn to visit Mäkinen's @TGR_WRC garage. They are currently building three on six chassises to start 2017. #WRC2017


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CvHdHrXWEAEoT34.jpg

[pantealex]

They are building 3 cars to every driver, MC and SWE with 1st, MEX with 2nd, 3rd is spare one. Before MC they will have 6 cars ready.

They have 4 cars now, all test versions, competition model will be different, wider from door area etc.

Kalle Rovanperä has tested twice.

Total 12000km driven already, Hänninen 6000km, Tommi 3000km

[bluuford]

Now, I still can't get my head around how a company which already has a track record of success in the sport, with an existing facility that has all the requirements including a strategic location would set something else up in a shed in Finland...
If Toyoda wanted Tommi as team principal then fine but to duplicate everything is crazy.

Work with Japanese and you can understand it. My boss is Japanese ;) The most important thing is relationship another thing is good connections between Japan and their facilities in Europe. The shortest and the most comfortable flight you can take from Japan is to Helsinki. Basically you go to sleep (in the evening) in business class and you wake up in the morning;) add several more hours to mid Germany, and double it with return flight.. and now multiply it with staff number;)

This is very-very clear to me. At least 10 Japanese researchers visit our small institute every year and only one of them has bothered to proceed to centra Europe.

[Simmi]

They are building 3 cars to every driver, MC and SWE with 1st, MEX with 2nd, 3rd is spare one. Before MC they will have 6 cars ready.

They have 4 cars now, all test versions, competition model will be different, wider from door area etc.

Kalle Rovanperä has tested twice.

Total 12000km driven already, Hänninen 6000km, Tommi 3000km

Good info. A lot of cars and kilometres. But am I correct - still 0km of dedicated tarmac testing?

[Mirek]

But am I correct - still 0km of dedicated tarmac testing?

I hope You are wrong. I can't imagine that to be true with just few weeks remaining before homologation process starts.

[nafpaktos]

So why did they build some years ago state of art facilities to Cologne????????????????There is no need for good communications between toyota and their wec team???????????????????????????cause i think they are not located in finland!!!

[SubaruNorway]

So why did they build some years ago state of art facilities to Cologne????????????????There is no need for good communications between toyota and their wec team???????????????????????????cause i think they are not located in finland!!!

It's the old F1 site

[nafpaktos]

i know, but my question is still

[nafpaktos]

before being the f1 headquarters were the tte headquarters,no need for communication that era?(for the rally team in the beginning and for the the f1 team later)

[Mk2 RS2000]

So why did they build some years ago state of art facilities to Cologne????????????????

Formula One and Team Toyota Europe (remember the 'whistling pigs"

[Munkvy]

I wish them luck. Yes, they are doing things different to some of the other teams. But it's a different era to when VW came in and dominated and I can only imagine the Japanese approach will be different to the Germans.

Juho will hopefully finally get the chance to prove he should be in the WRC. If he fails, he is only a 1 year risk to Toyota. That seems sensible and only a fair reward for his commitment to the team.

Hopefully they surprise us with one of their other drivers (Evan's for example). But surely most important in the first year is to get some fast hands behind the wheel who know the car well who are confident to push the limits and then we will see how the car stacks up. I don't think anyone expects the Yaris to be the fastest car on day 1. But I hope they can at least put up a good fight and develop quickly.

[Mariusz]

Selecting Juho as one of the drivers and signing the contract for one year only may just mean that 2017 will still be their development year.

[COD]

I hope they will be competitive, but...

The fact that they have not been able to sign any top names, tells me that the insiders don't believe they will be able to build a competitive car for next year. New travel fast and the managers don't want to sign their driver to a bad car if possible. Even Hyundai got established drivers for their 1st season...

[N.O.T]

Selecting Juho as one of the drivers and signing the contract for one year only may just mean that 2017 will still be their development year.

or their final one

[Rallyper]

i know, but my question is still

Do we know how much joint-venture there is between TGR and TMG? Nothing? Don´t think so.

Assembling WRC cars in the deep of Finland isn´t a big thing.

[er88]

I hope You are wrong. I can't imagine that to be true with just few weeks remaining before homologation process starts.
It surely can't be true??? What a shambles if it is though....

They've had years preparing for a WRC return, so they've only got themselves to blame if they've f*cked this.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Grundo Farb]

Work with Japanese and you can understand it. My boss is Japanese ;) The most important thing is relationship another thing is good connections between Japan and their facilities in Europe. The shortest and the most comfortable flight you can take from Japan is to Helsinki. Basically you go to sleep (in the evening) in business class and you wake up in the morning;) add several more hours to mid Germany, and double it with return flight.. and now multiply it with staff number;)

This is very-very clear to me. At least 10 Japanese researchers visit our small institute every year and only one of them has bothered to proceed to centra Europe.

I work with Japanese in Indonesia as well. It's only a 6 hour flight for them and the timezone is nice and handy. None of that is a reason to base a motorsport team here. Using your logic it should be in Japan.

Relationships, yes but only until your make them look bad. The relationship doesn't work well after that and they take no prisoners there.

[Hartusvuori]

I hope You are wrong. I can't imagine that to be true with just few weeks remaining before homologation process starts.

Chances are Central European hardcore rallying fans have failed to spy the tarmac tests or they have not tested on tarmac. I'm afraid I have to believe the latter more.

[pantealex]

Good info. A lot of cars and kilometres. But am I correct - still 0km of dedicated tarmac testing?

As said they have 4 test cars. Do you believe that 1 of them is just lying in garage ? (one car was in Paris motor show, 2 in gravel test)

They have driven tarmac test in "Skoda country" with fast Estonian driver and I am really surprised that no photos are out. It was almost same when Skoda was testing S2000, no big publicity.

Jus count the numbers shown:

Total tests 12000
Juho 6000
Tommi 3000
Kalle 2 days and Mikko 1 day (+Nikara some km)
Who and were have driven almost 3000km ???

[Franky]

They have driven tarmac test in "Skoda country" with fast Estonian driver and I am really surprised that no photos are out. It was almost same when Skoda was testing S2000, no big publicity.

Fast Estonian driver on tarmac? Tänak is chained to M-Sport. That pretty much leaves Kruuda of the current drivers and from the former there's Märtin and Aava. And of those two Märtin should be significantly better than Aava. Other drivers really don't have enough tarmac experience or just aren't fast enough.

[Mirek]

They have driven tarmac test in "Skoda country" with fast Estonian driver and I am really surprised that no photos are out. It was almost same when Skoda was testing S2000, no big publicity.

Did it really happen? I know there were some plans about that but that's all I know. Anyway there are areas here where You can test without public so maybe they were here.

[cali]

MM Motorsport is hinted to be very much involved/in relationship with TMR (Gazoo), so my wild guess would be Märtin. And he is basically only competent tarmac driver in Estonia after Tänak.

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

[Simmi]

MM Motorsport is hinted to be very much involved/in relationship with TMR (Gazoo), so my wild guess would be Märtin. And he is basically only competent tarmac driver in Estonia after Tänak.

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

I don't think it's even hinted when they are running the Toyota Junior guys in R5 Fiestas. It's there for all to see.

[Hartusvuori]

Pic or did not happen :-) Why on Earth they would want to keep it secret they have tested on tarmac? This approach is working against them. I was counting the kilometres too. Nikara did a few days too, Mikko one day (?). Something is missing, but it's still weird if chosen way is secrecy.

[Lousada]

Pic or did not happen :-) Why on Earth they would want to keep it secret they have tested on tarmac? This approach is working against them. I was counting the kilometres too. Nikara did a few days too, Mikko one day (?). Something is missing, but it's still weird if chosen way is secrecy.

Remember how long it took for some news to surface in English? And then in one of the first major interviews in English Tommi already started complaining about all the rumours floating around. Still when I look in this thread almost all the news and newspaper articles which contain first-hand information scome from Finnish media, presumably Tommi's mediafriends.

As an armchair-internet-psychologist it seems to me Tommi has control issues. He keeps everything as close to him as possible: the development of the car, the testing, the pr, even the location of his workshop. It appears to me he is hands on involved in every single aspect of the team. People who are like that have a tendency to keep everything as secret as possible so they can control when, where and how to release information.

[Rallyper]

Developing, testing is not public affair. Has never been. PR is just another thing. Don´t seldomly compare to each othert.

How easy isn´t it to have lorry with trailer without sticks, given no one ever noticed?

[pantealex]

I don't think it's even hinted when they are running the Toyota Junior guys in R5 Fiestas. It's there for all to see.

and TGR Estonian garage is same place that MM-Motorsport is.

[tommeke_B]

https://scontent-mrs1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14641990_10154441263995733_850478316532422896_n.jp g?oh=0b81352c4985c8fd0f0cdfe49c448ef9&oe=589D5D63

WTF

[N.O.T]

LoooooL

[Thousandlakes]

Wow. That is nice! Now we need video footage

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's testing in Catalunya...

https://twitter.com/RubenOteroDo/status/790557777936715776?s=09

[stefanvv]

WTF

The car is just small. Aero is fine.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cvi288uXYAAaMP5.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cvi288wWYAAKshJ.jpg:large

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Video clips

https://twitter.com/RallyingUK/status/790582261158641664

https://twitter.com/RallyingUK/status/790582154942087169

[tomhlord]

Wonder who the driver was? The silver reflective tints indicate to me that there is someone to hide.

[TWRC]

Wonder who the driver was? The silver reflective tints indicate to me that there is someone to hide.
Mäkinen. I think they're rather trying to hide the rollcage design than the driver.

[AL14]

Just found this on twitter :D :D

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CvjFpdLUEAE1qkr.jpg

[N.O.T]

Wonder who the driver was? The silver reflective tints indicate to me that there is someone to hide.

reflective tints are there because of the sun.

[Kalm]

Mattias Ekstrom should be announced as one of the drivers. Hear he's quite good in the DTM..

Talking of DTM... spoke to some guys from Toyota and that was the refrence that they made talking about aero, they said that their car generates more downforce than a DTM car..

[N.O.T]

Talking of DTM... spoke to some guys from Toyota and that was the refrence that they made talking about aero, they said that their car generates more downforce than a DTM car..

Did you ask them when they plan to flop the whole joke ?

[Kalm]

Did you ask them when they plan to flop the whole joke ?

no, but i was very tempted

[stefanvv]

Talking of DTM... spoke to some guys from Toyota and that was the refrence that they made talking about aero, they said that their car generates more downforce than a DTM car..

Enough the chaotic jumps in Finland. The thing will be glued to the ground.

[EstWRC]

what more did you find out?

[BigWorm]

Even in tarmac spec it looks like a fart

[AndyRAC]

Looks like a 'Max Power' special........

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Even in tarmac spec it looks like a fart

It's the smallness of the base car that's the problem...

Like back in the 80's with the Metro 6R4, it was never going to look great full of scoops and wings when based on that tiny shopping car.

[Mirek]

The funny thing is that Yaris is a lot bigger than MG Metro. Metro is reasonably smaller than today's smallest cars like Ford Ka.

[BigWorm]

It's the smallness of the base car that's the problem...

Like back in the 80's with the Metro 6R4, it was never going to look great full of scoops and wings when based on that tiny shopping car.

I guess it can't perform as bad as it looks

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The funny thing is that Yaris is a lot bigger than MG Metro. Metro is reasonably smaller than today's smallest cars like Ford Ka.

It's the basic Yaris styling as well... its about as unlike a rally car as you can get... like the basic Metro was. Thus making its aero additions look all the more ridiculous.

[stefanvv]

I guess it can't perform as bad as it looks

Of course it can, haven't You ever tried jet engine on Your skateboard?

[liposh]

Talking of DTM... spoke to some guys from Toyota and that was the refrence that they made talking about aero, they said that their car generates more downforce than a DTM car..

Why would they generate more downforce than a DTM car? It is so counter-productive to have WRC with such huge downforce.

[Mirek]

It is so counter-productive to have WRC with such huge downforce.

And You base Your statement on what? You know that traction (both in acceleration and deceleration) is a function of downforce and that the adhesion of gravel is way lower than of circuit tarmac?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

One person likes it !

Colin Clark @voiceofrally
The Yaris WRC no longer looks like a run around with a picnic table strapped to the back, its now a bloody monster! https://t.co/yXPRiU077w

[liposh]

Downforce is fine, but do you know how huge the downforce is in DTM? I know it. Even without knowing those facts all of us have watched the video, You know the effect of Yaris aerokit (understeering, low top speeds etc.) . You saw it. You are a wise man, Mirek, so why do You have such need to argue with us every single time?

[Mirek]

Downforce is fine, but do you know how huge the downforce is in DTM? I know it. Even without knowing those facts all of us have watched the video, You know the effect of Yaris aerokit (understeering, low top speeds etc.) . You saw it. You are a wise man, Mirek, so why do You have such need to argue with us every single time?

Because You write nonsense. Downforce can not make a car to understeer because downforce has no inertia... Of course unless we speak about downforce only at the back which would lift the front end but that's quite obviously not the case. Otherwise bigger downforce at front end always reduces understeering. Always.

Another nonsense is what You wrote about top speed. How do You know what is the top speed of Yaris and that it can't be reached due to aero drag? I am pretty sure You don't know.

[BigWorm]

Of course it can, haven't You ever tried jet engine on Your skateboard?

I can assure you it was bloody awesome

[denkimi]

Downforce is fine, but do you know how huge the downforce is in DTM? I know it. Even without knowing those facts all of us have watched the video, You know the effect of Yaris aerokit (understeering, low top speeds etc.) . You saw it. You are a wise man, Mirek, so why do You have such need to argue with us every single time?

downforce in every series is a function of their power. you can use only as much downforce as you can compensate with power, otherwise you lose on straight line speed.

so it is normal that wrc cars should have more downforce, as they drive nowhere near the top speed of dtm cars, so they have nowhere near as much drag.

[dimviii]

Well he does wear a pink scarf most of the time...
haha good one!

[Rallyper]

Why do almost all guys here bashing a car which they don´t know more about than it has four wheels and big wings?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I notice all the 2017 cars, now including the Toyota, seem to have a plain front with similar front aero (just a big splitter).

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cvi288uXYAAaMP5.jpg

Whereas the Fiesta has more on either side of the grill, blending into the front wheelarches...

http://motorsport.motorionline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/fiesta-rs-wrc-2017a.png

I wonder who has it right ?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Why do almost all guys here bashing a car which they don´t know more about than it has four wheels and big wings?

TBH, most are only bashing it's looks.

It just needs to be fast and everyone will like it.

[N.O.T]

Why do almost all guys here bashing a car which they don´t know more about than it has four wheels and big wings?

Because some of us have proper judgement skills, if you see a pile of shit by the road you do not have to taste it to know its shit.

The toyota looks slow in testing, the aero looks more like something out of one of those retarded max power magazines and the team is being assembled by nationality rather than skill. The team manager has photos of rival manufacturers in the official team garage, the lead engineer left mid project and the driver selection is worthless.

If you need to taste the pile of shit to find out its shit then go ahead.

[Rallyper]

Because some of us have proper judgement skills, if you see a pile of shit by the road you do not have to taste it to know its shit.

The toyota looks slow in testing, the aero looks more like something out of one of those retarded max power magazines and the team is being assembled by nationality rather than skill. The team manager has photos of rival manufacturers in the official team garage, the lead engineer left mid project and the driver selection is worthless.

If you need to taste the pile of shit to find out its shit then go ahead.

Actually I asked all guys except you. Your version of answer I already knew.

[Rally Power]

I notice all the 2017 cars, now including the Toyota, seem to have a plain front with similar front aero (just a big splitter).
Whereas the Fiesta has more on either side of the grill, blending into the front wheelarches...
I wonder who has it right ?

In every manus tests we can see new elements on the cars. Probably only after homologation we’ll get to know the full extension of ’17 aero kits.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

In every manus tests we can see new elements on the cars. Probably only after homologation we’ll get to know the full extension of ’17 aero kits.

True, but the Fiesta was the last to be created so you would expect its aero to be the least resolved.. but its front end actually looks the most.

[er88]

The Toyota has looked a bit off the pace in testing, but for these tarmac test videos I'd rather wait and see how it looks when Hanninen is in the car. Tommi is driving it like the old man he is, so I'd like to see it when it's getting the arse driven off it by Juho. Toyota should also maybe give Bouffier a call, as he would be a good driver to test on tarmac and has good experience as a test driver. However this should've been done 6months ago, not weeks before homologation.....

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[RS]

I notice all the 2017 cars, now including the Toyota, seem to have a plain front with similar front aero (just a big splitter).

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cvi288uXYAAaMP5.jpg

Whereas the Fiesta has more on either side of the grill, blending into the front wheelarches...

http://motorsport.motorionline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/fiesta-rs-wrc-2017a.png

I wonder who has it right ?

They both look silly to me, but the Fiesta does look more intricate and refined in this respect. The front bumper splitter on the Yaris looks particularly homemade.

[HarriK]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmDAXuax9js

[danon]

Because some of us have proper judgement skills, if you see a pile of shit by the road you do not have to taste it to know its shit.

The toyota looks slow in testing, the aero looks more like something out of one of those retarded max power magazines and the team is being assembled by nationality rather than skill. The team manager has photos of rival manufacturers in the official team garage, the lead engineer left mid project and the driver selection is worthless.

If you need to taste the pile of shit to find out its shit then go ahead.

Because some of us have proper judgement skills
if you see a pile of shit along the road you do not have to taste it to know its NOT's shit
after a ride by Tommi in a TOYOTA WRC.

Go play tennis.
It's safe.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0MYuQlWfi1JoldOU/source.gif

[N.O.T]

for a moment i thought it was not going to make it uphill. Lol

[Rallyper]

for a moment i thought it was not going to make it uphill. Lol

Big sense of humour even if you´d not admit it. :)

[stefanvv]

Never saw that coming - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et0Dp_m6dUM

[Munkvy]

True, but the Fiesta was the last to be created so you would expect its aero to be the least resolved.. but its front end actually looks the most.

They may not have tested the whole car, but it's entirely possible Ford gave them the bodywork some time ago to do their aero testing with in a tunnel. Of course we will never know for sure. But I agree, Ford does look the most complete for front end aero design, but I am no expert!!!

[Jack4688`]

Never saw that coming - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et0Dp_m6dUM

Can we just get serious for a second? Is it "Gaz-oo" or "G'Zoo"

[PAUL15]

1st Post - Good luck Toyota good to see you back and competing again!

[Mariusz]

1st Post - Good luck Toyota good to see you back and competing again!

First post and no sign of any negativity or whining. Sir, I don't think you belong here ;)

[bowler]

That would have to be the worst welcome ever.

Welcome PAUL15

I expect good things from Toyota again. Inevitably results will be slow, but they will return as they were before.

[PAUL15]

That would have to be the worst welcome ever.

Welcome PAUL15

I expect good things from Toyota again. Inevitably results will be slow, but they will return as they were before.

Thanks Bowler...looking forward to seeing them back again! Lots of competition but it only adds to the excitement to see so many manufacturers competing :)

[itix]

First post and no sign of any negativity or whining. Sir, I don't think you belong here ;)

Brilliant, post of the year! :D

[DonJippo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aATLnb1kriw

[DonJippo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUEV6Q4iR2k

[DonJippo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNZeBB8qqGo

[Sulland]

Any sign of Mäkinen talking to any of the VW drivers, or other drivers these days?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Why Toyota WRC sponsor is Microsoft... to help make autonomous cars !

http://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/motorsport-wrc/how-toyota-yaris-rally-car-will-help-advance-autonomous-driving-tech

[RS]

Any sign of Mäkinen talking to any of the VW drivers, or other drivers these days?

Probably just the Finnish one.

[itix]

https://www.facebook.com/TOYOTAGAZOORacingWRC/posts/275147126220813

Dunno about you, but I'm starting to think this thing is becoming quite pretty again. If they just get a serious livery on that thing it will look pretty decent given the size and the silly overhangs in all directions.

[pantealex]

Probably just the Finnish one.

wrong. In last 10 days there has been many international drivers visiting TGR HQ
(many = more than 3)

[EstWRC]

cmonnn Alex, give us moorreee

[Grundo Farb]

https://www.facebook.com/TOYOTAGAZOORacingWRC/posts/275147126220813

Dunno about you, but I'm starting to think this thing is becoming quite pretty again. If they just get a serious livery on that thing it will look pretty decent given the size and the silly overhangs in all directions.

1122

[pantealex]

cmonnn Alex, give us moorreee

hole family from Norway, another from Norway, + 3 drivers who all work in same place now and ...

[dodge33cymru]

Suninen testing with them today, normally I'd assume that's a done deal...

[Essaj]

But why would they pick Suninen over Lappi? Can't see them having 4 finns in one team with only 2 cars, if rumors about Latvala are true.

[KKS]

maybe cuz Suninen are privater and Lappi still have contract with Skoda?

[COD]

But why would they pick Suninen over Lappi? Can't see them having 4 finns in one team with only 2 cars, if rumors about Latvala are true.

Jouhki

[Essaj]

maybe cuz Suninen are privater and Lappi still have contract with Skoda?

Lappi's contract ends after Australia and he has already said that he is not going to continue with Skoda.

[stefanvv]

But why would they pick Suninen over Lappi?

Why not? What has Lappi, Sunninen doesn't have?

[Essaj]

Why not? What has Lappi, Sunninen doesn't have?

Well he is faster, FRC and ERC champion, WRC 2 champion after Australia, Experience and has been more reliable.

[RS]

It would be a shame if Lappi doesn't get a drive somewhere. He has matured a lot in the second half of this year and he is clearly faster than Suninen on tarmac.

[Sulland]

Gazoo Dreamteam:
1st driver: Latvala
2nd driver: Mikkelsen
Third driver: Hänninen
Testdriver + WRC2: Lappi
Testdriver: Kalle Rovanperä

[Andre Oliveira]

Tommi have one Fiesta R5 completely new ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Suninen test - the Yaris sounds great at least...

https://youtu.be/gibN30wRRjg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxdPf_WW8AAy8uU.jpg:large

[janvanvurpa]

Well he is faster, FRC and ERC champion, WRC 2 champion after Australia, Experience and has been more reliable.

Ok, but beside that?:crazy:

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Suninen testing with them today, normally I'd assume that's a done deal...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxebmOVXcAAUBKH.jpg:large

[Mirek]

Ok, but beside that?:crazy:

Has been involved in development of successful rallycar :)

[Rallyper]

Ok, but beside that?:crazy:

Hello John! Long time no see. What have you been up to?

[BigWorm]

Only reason I could see for Toyota to sign Sunninen instead of Lappi is that Lappi has an offer elsewhere. Or economic reasons?

Or maybe they are just signing both.

[tommeke_B]

François Duval tested Yaris. According to him there's a lot of work on both engine and suspension.

https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/15369229_10210451414229202_1115210545807324850_o.j pg

[Rally Power]

François Duval tested Yaris. According to him there's a lot of work on both engine and suspension.

https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/15369229_10210451414229202_1115210545807324850_o.j pg

I bet that Yaris understeers like a pig!

[pantealex]

François Duval tested Yaris. According to him there's a lot of work on both engine and suspension.

https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/15369229_10210451414229202_1115210545807324850_o.j pg

Looks much better with stickers ;)

[Simmi]

Can't help but be intrigued by the Toyota contracts situation.

It's got to the point where Latvala is in the car today without any official communication. Are VAG playing hardball (same issue with Lappi)? Still some legal things to be worked out? I'm sure there's a reason that Toyota and all involved parties have had to be super defensive/secretive. Might not be their fault at all but it's just another thing that makes the team look haphazard from the outside.

[Allez Andruet]

Can't help but be intrigued by the Toyota contracts situation.

It's got to the point where Latvala is in the car today without any official communication. Are VAG playing hardball (same issue with Lappi)? Still some legal things to be worked out? I'm sure there's a reason that Toyota and all involved parties have had to be super defensive/secretive. Might not be their fault at all but it's just another thing that makes the team look haphazard from the outside.

I think it might be just that "Japanese" way of doing things, i.e. the team launch is on Dec 13 and nothing (except for Hänninen) will be made official before that. Mäkinen said in one interview (which was regarding the situation with Lappi), that they have a plan when to make the announcement(s) and they'll stick to that.

And in an interview released today by Finnish media giant MTV, Tommi said the plan (or actually "the target") is to announce the driver line-up on Dec 13, together with the car. The story can be read here (in Finnish):
http://www.mtv.fi/sport/ralli/uutinen/artikkeli/tommi-makinen-varovaisena-latvala-uutisista-arvuuttelu-pian-ohi/6203830

But yes, it does look quite silly in a way when you have JML already testing the car.

[Rallyper]

And Ogier tested, and so did many others ...

[pantealex]

I personally know 10 drivers who have driven Yaris WRC and only 50% of those have deal with Tommi.

And no, I will not give all names ;)

[N.O.T]

I personally know 10 drivers who have driven Yaris WRC and only 50% of those have deal with Tommi.

And no, I will not give all names ;)

no need to give any names, we can name 10 finnish useless neverbeens and we probably can be 80-90% accurate

[spyros]

no need to give any names, we can name 10 finnish useless neverbeens and we probably can be 80-90% accurate

I dont thing JML is useless,he's one of the fastest and talented drivers out there,i have hope about him........

[itix]

I dont thing JML is useless,he's one of the fastest and talented drivers out there,i have hope about him........
Completely pointless arguing with him. It's just going to bring more of his retarded nonsense.

[bassist]

Completely pointless arguing with him. It's just going to bring more of his retarded nonsense.

Well said, not worth the effort engaging with him. Anything he puts on here is totally irrelevant. It`s quite sad really.

[GravelBen]

Fortunately the forum has a useful function called the ignore list. It means you don't have to see N.O.T's inane drivel all the time.

[itix]

Fortunately the forum has a useful function called the ignore list. It means you don't have to see N.O.T's inane drivel all the time.
Unfortunately people keep responding to him and if I don't see what kind of retarded crap he wrote, I can't make sense of it.

Also it gives me joy that there are people out there far more retarded than me. I don't need to feel so bad when I say stupid things. I just need to remember the good ol' forum retard.

[Duvel]

Fortunately the forum has a useful function called the ignore list. It means you don't have to see N.O.T's inane drivel all the time.

I had to search a bit, but i just found it! Thanks for the tip, no more stupid, useless post from that guy for me!

[N.O.T]

Completely pointless arguing with him. It's just going to bring more of his retarded nonsense.

you should focus on important things like how useless the aero is on a rally car, something is really wrong with the teams this year and they seem to focus too much on it.

[Lundefaret]

Your ignorance is mind boggling :)

[dimviii]

I personally know 10 drivers who have driven Yaris WRC and only 50% of those have deal with Tommi.

And no, I will not give all names ;)

for what reason all these drivers drove yaris?

[Rallyper]

for what reason all these drivers drove yaris?

Some evaluating, some as testdrivers.

[dimviii]

Some evaluating, some as testdrivers.

evaluate?

[itix]

you should focus on important things like how useless the aero is on a rally car, something is really wrong with the teams this year and they seem to focus too much on it.
I said no such thing... I said something similar, sure, but not the way you put it. And I don't mind being wrong.

Shouldn't you focus instead on important facts like how vw Motorsport isn't leaving the WRC?

[dimviii]

https://twitter.com/TGR_WRC

[pantealex]

for what reason all these drivers drove yaris?

I don´t know.

But clearly many reasons:
ie.
Why Tommi drives?
Why Ogier ?
Why Kalle Rovanperä ?

[Simmi]

Makinen
Hanninen
Hirvonen
Nikara
Rovanpera
Suninen
Lappi
Ogier
Latvala

Big list. Would put decent money Markko Martin has been in it too. Probably quite a few more like pantealex says.

[AL14]

Makinen
Hanninen
Hirvonen
Nikara
Rovanpera
Suninen
Lappi
Ogier
Latvala



Odd one out :D

[itix]

Odd one out :D
You do have a point there!
They could at least make an effort to seat other than Finnish drivers in it. There are couple on the market. Luky, Tidemand, Kubica would probably be interested... I'm sure I have forgotten a whole bunch now.

[GravelBen]

Would put decent money Markko Martin has been in it too.

There were photos of him tarmac testing a while back were't there, or was it only speculation that it was him and not confirmed?

[maciotacio]

You do have a point there!
They could at least make an effort to seat other than Finnish drivers in it. There are couple on the market. Luky, Tidemand, Kubica would probably be interested... I'm sure I have forgotten a whole bunch now.

Totally agree. Having a driver like Kubica available on the market... They could offer him a seat even for a couple of rounds and tarmac development. You can guys laught about his crashes etc but he's extraordinary when it comes to feeling the tarmac and ability to work with engineers and giving them feedback. There is no secret he made some changes in Citroen in 2013, which shocked their engineers and they are using them till now. Shame that we might not see RK in WRC anymore. Supposedly was some chance as a third Toyota driver but after VW breakout his odds are close to zero.

@Simmi, I was about to type the same list of drivers. 8 Finns and 1 French guy. Coincidence ? I don't think so :D

[EstWRC]

There were photos of him tarmac testing a while back were't there, or was it only speculation that it was him and not confirmed?

whole estonia would buy you a beer if you show us the photos????

[GravelBen]

whole estonia would buy you a beer if you show us the photos????

Maybe it was just speculation I read on this forum then!

[Co-FIN]

..

[Essaj]

You do have a point there!
They could at least make an effort to seat other than Finnish drivers in it. There are couple on the market. Luky, Tidemand, Kubica would probably be interested... I'm sure I have forgotten a whole bunch now.

To be fair Lukyanuk has had one showing on an WRC and it ended on like 2nd or 3rd corner and he dosnt really have any experience on car developing. And on case Tidemand, both Lappi and Suninen were faster than him.
Can Kubica even drive current cars, didn't he have some special way to shift because of his hand?

Somekind of tarmac expert could have been nice, but is there actually any available that would have been real upgrade on to lets say Hänninen

[pantealex]

If all 3 drivers are from Finland, I´m not happy at all.

Hänninen, OK, has done a lot for car.

Lappi, OK, deserves deal.

But...

JML is great driver, one of the fastest, deserves place in WRC but not in Toyota.

Just my opinion!

[cali]

If all 3 drivers are from Finland, I´m not happy at all.

Hänninen, OK, has done a lot for car.

Lappi, OK, deserves deal.

But...

JML is great driver, one of the fastest, deserves place in WRC but not in Toyota.

Just my opinion!

Where does he deserve to drive cos I cannot imagine him driving for any other team?

[GravelBen]

Hopefully they give him a more reliable car than VW managed to this year.

[maciotacio]

Can Kubica even drive current cars, didn't he have some special way to shift because of his hand?

Why not. He's driven more powerful cars this year then current WRCs. LMP1 cars has even tighter monocoque with less space for his injured arm. Since 2015, gear shift is no longer an issue because of the gear paddles. His co-driver once said in a very long, honest interview that RK has found a way around and circumvented his limitations. There aren't problem anymore but course it would be easier to drive without them.

Ok, I could be biased in that matter, but I see two really crucial factors to hire him. It's earlier mentioned tarmac development and aerodynamics. Next year, a good aero efficiency and effectiveness is going to be a key to winning. And now it's a part for an essential question. How many drivers has got the knowledge, comprehension and experience of working with aerodynamics? For me Kubica has got the best papers, bearing in mind his F1 and circuit experience, where aero is everything.

[AndyRAC]

You do have a point there!
They could at least make an effort to seat other than Finnish drivers in it. There are couple on the market. Luky, Tidemand, Kubica would probably be interested... I'm sure I have forgotten a whole bunch now.

Well, it's Toyota Team Finland - so its likely to be mainly Finnish.... ;)

[electroliquid]

Well, it's Toyota Team Finland - so its likely to be mainly Finnish.... ;)

It would be quite interesting to have all manufacturers like that. WRC of nations. :D Toyota - Finnish, M-Sport with Meeke, Breen, Evans; Citroen - Ogier, Camilli, Lefebvre, maybe Neuville; Adapta - Ostberg, Mikelsen; Hyundai - international. Would be like Olympics of rally all season long :D

[OldF]

Well, it's Toyota Team Finland - so its likely to be mainly Finnish.... ;)

https://youtu.be/8sZqrAEXtUs?t=2002 :)

[focus206]

It would be quite interesting to have all manufacturers like that. WRC of nations. :D Toyota - Finnish, M-Sport with Meeke, Breen, Evans; Citroen - Ogier, Camilli, Lefebvre, maybe Neuville; Adapta - Ostberg, Mikelsen; Hyundai - international. Would be like Olympics of rally all season long :D

Well it was more or less like that in the 50's and 60's :p Luckily the world has evolved.

[rogef]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNuGKkIBgfR/?tagged=toyotawrc

[AL14]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNuGKkIBgfR/?tagged=toyotawrc

Who's him? Hanninen? Nice one

[rogef]

Who's him? Hanninen? Nice one

I'm not sure. I just came across the video on instagram, but I think it's Hanninen. I think it was the day before the Latvala test

[EstWRC]

i think i saw a tweet this morning saying that Latvala has 3 days of testing ahead this week. cant find it anymore.

[Rally Power]

Well, it's Toyota Team Finland - so its likely to be mainly Finnish.... ;)

Not entirely Finnish… https://twitter.com/TGR_WRC

Beside those two ex-MSport guys there’s also chief designer Simon Carrier, formerly responsible for the Focus ’03 and ’06.

Btw, nice to see how communication has improved in TGR. Congrats!

[smsgrafica]

http://www.formulapassion.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Toyota-Yaris-Wrc-2017-Latvala-Hanninen.jpg

Where are the Toyota logos??? It should be the official team, but the company name barely visible…

[AL14]

http://i.imgur.com/TJKDtZ0.jpg

How much enthusiasm!!!
Look at Latvala's face. lol

The only happy is Makinen :D

[smsgrafica]

Lappi's thoughts: "Why on earth am I standing here?!"

[Rallyper]

http://i.imgur.com/TJKDtZ0.jpg

How much enthusiasm!!!
Look at Latvala's face. lol

The only happy is Makinen :D

Already thinking of coming triumphs.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Exactly

Somewhere it says that he's a test driver for Toyota in 2017

Another says he will drive the third car in 2017.

So which is it?

And how much of a joke was it that the public were only able to watch three sh!tty live Facebook broadcasts of the launch..?!?!???!!!! Poor effort by Toyota, really.

[Rallyper]

Exactly

Somewhere it says that he's a test driver for Toyota in 2017

Another says he will drive the third car in 2017.

So which is it?

And how much of a joke was it that the public were only able to watch three sh!tty live Facebook broadcasts of the launch..?!?!???!!!! Poor effort by Toyota, really.

We know you don´t like 'em. The rest of us enjoy bigger competition coming years.

[Mirek]

It was said officially already some time a go that Toyota would have third car available only in April or so. Lappi signed before VW announced their end in WRC and became simply a victim of the situation. Now he has to wait.

I'm surprising myself but I quite like the final look of the Yaris.

[BigWorm]

The rear wing is a monster

[Thousandlakes]

Good news for finnish rallyfans like me. Mostly I like Lappis contract. He has now time to test car before third car is ready somepoint of spring. I am expecting much for him. But honestly I have to wear off my "finnish eyeglasses" Yaris is far from ready. Engine looks ok but suspension is big?? Latvala said today in Helsinki that he expecting to get podiums later of a season. lets see. This is still good news if thinking about WRC. New era of rallying is starting soon. Last time I am excited like this was in early 90`:)

[big_sw2000]

It was said officially already some time a go that Toyota would have third car available only in April or so. Lappi signed before VW announced their end in WRC and became simply a victim of the situation. Now he has to wait.

I'm surprising myself but I quite like the final look of the Yaris.

I have to agree, its not as bad as i thought.

Steve

[RS]

The car looks fine until you get to the rear wing.

What happened with Suninen?

[RS]

http://i.imgur.com/TJKDtZ0.jpg

How much enthusiasm!!!
Look at Latvala's face. lol

The only happy is Makinen :D

They're not supposed to smile, they're Finnish.

[MartijnS]

Pretty happy with the looks too! Decent livery!

[Rally Power]

Pretty happy with the looks too! Decent livery!

+1. The aero work seems outstanding and by Latvala’s pace on the last video I wonder if they won’t start fighting for rally wins sooner than expected…good job TGR and best luck on this WRC return!

[EightGear]

Yes I agree it looks better than expected, especially the front with more detailed aero etc. The rear just looks brutal, which kinda makes it look fine.

[Rally Power]

What happened with Suninen?

WRC2 season payed by TGR, alongside some WRC testing?

[Sulland]

I usually cheear for the underdog, in 2017 it will be Toyota!

[dimviii]

did they announced how many years contract have Latvala Lappi Hanninen?


yes I have to admit looks is better than expected.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Czke3i5XgAMe-LK.jpg

[dimviii]

Rally Paradise
1 hr ·
@JariMattiWRC said that before the Christmas he is going to test #TGR_WRC #Toyota #YarisWRC almost every day. The aim is to drive 3 days tarmac, 1 gravel & 3-4 days snow.
The aerodynamic of the car is working really well. The balance is good on the braking and on the slippery. JML has same kind of feeling, when he was driving the Fiesta.
The aim is to be on the Podium next year. The first three events JML is aiming to drive easy and get used to the car. At the middle of the season he should be able to fight for the top three places.

[rogef]

Why does he make a comparison with Fiesta that he no longer drive in over 4 or 5 years?

[jonkka]

Maybe he's contractually forbidden to make comparison to VW. Or out of courtesy.

[Franky]

Because it doesn't feel like a VW, but more like an M-Sport Fiesta.

[seb_sh]

What happened with Suninen?

I guess he will be test driver + wrc2 or wrc trophy next year and probably replace Hanninen or Latvala next year.

[pantealex]

WRC2 season payed by TGR, alongside some WRC testing?

Think again...

Suninen was doing motor test for Tommi because he works in company which makes those engines (TMG)

Suninen will probably drive VW16, Tommi has enough test drivers now.

[Andre Oliveira]

I don't believe that TMR will use one Fiesta R5 to study R5 cars. That car will be used.

[dimviii]

Suninen was doing motor test for Tommi because he works in company which makes those engines (TMG)
.

for who is working Suninen?

[dimviii]

from some angles is nice

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzlBlz-WQAEUp2f.jpg

[gorganl2000]

just a few questions for the technically minded amongst you. It looks like the yaris wrc has the biggest spoiler of the 2017 generation WRCs. is it the smallest of the base models? and is the massive spoiler used to possibly "give the effect" of a bigger car, maybe length and weight distribution wise---apart from aero benefits?

[dupanton]

Not only I'm not convinced about the car, I think they have by far the weakest driver line-up from all teams.

[Andre Oliveira]

http://toyotagazooracing.com/pages/contents/en/assets/pdf/release/2016/wrc/1213-01/YarisWRC_information.pdf

Length / width / height: 4085mm (inc. aero device)/ 1,875mm / adjustable
Track width: Adjustable
Wheelbase: 2,511mm
Minimum weight: 1,190kg

[RS]

Not only I'm not convinced about the car, I think they have by far the weakest driver line-up from all teams.

Maybe.. I would take Hanninen and Lappi over Breen/Lefebvre personally.

[gorganl2000]

Not only I'm not convinced about the car, I think they have by far the weakest driver line-up from all teams.

i try to keep an open mind about the car since inception, and at first it was not looking so good, but the last few videos it does seem to be improving and moving in the right direction. I suppose more testing and adjustments will be made along the way as they gather feedback and data----at least i hope so. i recall Hyundai didn't look so good at first either, but came on better as a time passed.

hopefully toyota follow a similar developmental path, as starting from scratch does take some doing and commitment.

let's give them a chance and see what happens.

[gorganl2000]

Hyundai: https://motorsport.hyundai.com/ng-i20-wrc/technical-specifications/


Chassis / Bodywork

StructureFIA-conformant reinforced steel and composite fibre body
with welded multi-point roll cage
Length / Width4,035 / 1,820mm
Track width1,610mm
Wheel base2,570mm

thanks Mr. Oliveira

[Mirek]

Hyundai: https://motorsport.hyundai.com/ng-i20-wrc/technical-specifications/

Chassis / Bodywork

StructureFIA-conformant reinforced steel and composite fibre body
with welded multi-point roll cage
Length / Width4,035 / 1,820mm
Track width1,610mm
Wheel base2,570mm

That's 2016 car.

[Andre Oliveira]

Damm it :) you are right

[maciotacio]

Not only I'm not convinced about the car, I think they have by far the weakest driver line-up from all teams.

I think also Citroen is on par with Finnish boys.
For Hanninen there will be no excuse of not knowing or feeling the car. He has to deliver results straight away or will be out of WRC for good. Young gun Sunninen is waiting in the queue.

[Andre Oliveira]

That's 2016 car.

https://motorsport.hyundai.com/ng-i20-wrc/technical-specifications-2017/


Chassis / Bodywork

StructureSteel bodyshell with welded multi-point roll cage
BodyworkSteel and composite fiber panels
Length / Width4,100/1,875mm
Track width1,665mm
Wheel base2,570mm

[maciotacio]

Lol, Tommi you forgot about some French guy in the field

Tommi Mäkinen as a guest in Finnish news discussion program #AStudio, saying we'll see a Finnish WRC champ in 2018. "Have to be optimistic."
https://twitter.com/HartusvuoriWRC/status/808749367469494272

[COD]

Livery looks like made by a 7 year old.

The driver decisions... hmm. I can see the reasoning behind Hänninen, he tested so long and there were not many available when he was signed. Mäkinen ows a lot of his career to Jouhki, so was "forced" to rescue Latvala. Mikkelsen would have better choise. Lappi is a talent, hope they can get a third car running asap. What testing will he get? Regulations restrict testing days and the race driver will want to test as much as possible to set up the car. And the boss still wants to test. Maybe they start developing R5? Hope so for Lappis sake, otherwise he will do nothing...

[GigiGalliNo1]

Never said I didn't like them for competition... great they're competing and the more cars the better!

[RS]

Lol, Tommi you forgot about some French guy in the field

Tommi Mäkinen as a guest in Finnish news discussion program #AStudio, saying we'll see a Finnish WRC champ in 2018. "Have to be optimistic."
https://twitter.com/HartusvuoriWRC/status/808749367469494272

Not only are all Toyota drivers Finnish but all the Finnish drivers are in Toyota.. so over to you Tommi.

[electroliquid]

Not only are all Toyota drivers Finnish but all the Finnish drivers are in Toyota.. so over to you Tommi.

If Toyota didn't succeed, it could be dissaster to hopes of see Finnish crowned World champion soon...

[rp]

Lappi is a talent, hope they can get a third car running asap. What testing will he get? Regulations restrict testing days and the race driver will want to test as much as possible to set up the car. And the boss still wants to test. Maybe they start developing R5? Hope so for Lappis sake, otherwise he will do nothing...

TGR WRC is registered to Finland and they can test there all the time.

Lappi is able to drive every week during the winter and collect the experience. If Esapekka´s 1st event is Portugal (May 19/21) it will possible to drive on gravel also in Finland at the end of April / beginning of May after the winter time.

[rp]

If Toyota didn't succeed, it could be dissaster to hopes of see Finnish crowned World champion soon...

That´s true! Not very good situation if the car is much weaker that others. The season 2017 is in any case the development year for the Toyota Gazoo Racing WRC, but there must be some potential to show if it will be possible to win in 2018.

Mäkinen said that all the drivers have only one year contract, so you never know what will happen in 2018...

[maciotacio]

Mäkinen said that all the drivers have only one year contract, so you never know what will happen in 2018...

Did he say that yesterday? Some time ago, he said about 2 years contract for Hanninen.

[rp]

Did he say that yesterday? Some time ago, he said about 2 years contract for Hanninen.

Yes, but Tommi said also that all the contracts are "flexiple". Both the team and the drivers are able to negotiate what they will do for the season 2018.

He said also that they are looking for the future and I would be rather sure that Lappi´s contract must be longer and who knows what is the situation with Suninen and Rovanperä :)

[A FONDO]

http://i.imgur.com/TJKDtZ0.jpg

How much enthusiasm!!!
Look at Latvala's face. lol

The only happy is Makinen :D

codrivers are also happy, cause they're passengers anyway, but drivers are so worried having to drive that car, already knowing what downtime it's going to be.

[COD]

codrivers are also happy, cause they're passengers anyway, but drivers are so worried having to drive that car, already knowing what downtime it's going to be.

Mäkinen is happy, because he has tested it and thinks it is good. Only problem is, that when a faster driver drives it, suspension doesn't work anymore

[dupanton]

I think also Citroen is on par with Finnish boys.
For Hanninen there will be no excuse of not knowing or feeling the car. He has to deliver results straight away or will be out of WRC for good. Young gun Sunninen is waiting in the queue.

Meeke is faster then Latvala, both aren't super reliable.
Breen is better then Hanninen, Hanninen hasn't been competing for years.
Lefebvre is on the level of Lappi I think. Less talented but more experience, should be quite equal.

[tommeke_B]

Breen better than Hänninen? Seriously? Hänninen hasn't been competing for a few years indeed... When he was in the Hyundai i20 WRC he had a lot of issues and some crashes, but when things went well he was setting better stage-times than Neuville. ;)

[dupanton]

Breen better than Hänninen? Seriously? Hänninen hasn't been competing for a few years indeed... When he was in the Hyundai i20 WRC he had a lot of issues and some crashes, but when things went well he was setting better stage-times than Neuville. ;)

Yes, seriously. Based on Breens results this year and the lack of competition of Hanninen, I rate Breen higher then Hanninen.

[Marcco]

Mäkinen is happy, because he has tested it and thinks it is good. Only problem is, that when a faster driver drives it, suspension doesn't work anymore

The more I hear bashing like this - the more I want Toyota to succeed.
Seriously, why are you so negative about it? Yes, I know Yaris is built in a farm of Makinen… but from another point of view it looks quite good:
It has backing from Toyota
It has sponsor
It looks nice (!)
It looks quite good on recent tests (remember Hyundai in 2014)
It’s drivers lineup looks like this:
One IRC and S-WRC champion who never had proper chance to shine in WRC (and did a lot of testing in Yaris)
One fast guy who has 16 WRC wins under his belt (okay, he might not be next WRC champion, but he definitely can show Yaris potential)
One young gun

For me, all of it looks quite nice! I wish all the best for them!

[spyros]

The more I hear bashing like this - the more I want Toyota to succeed.
Seriously, why are you so negative about it? Yes, I know Yaris is built in a farm of Makinen… but from another point of view it looks quite good:
It has backing from Toyota
It has sponsor
It looks nice (!)
It looks quite good on recent tests (remember Hyundai in 2014)
It’s drivers lineup looks like this:
One IRC and S-WRC champion who never had proper chance to shine in WRC (and did a lot of testing in Yaris)
One fast guy who has 16 WRC wins under his belt (okay, he might not be next WRC champion, but he definitely can show Yaris potential)
One young gun

For me, all of it looks quite nice! I wish all the best for them!

well said mate i totally agree.
I remember when Colin joins Ford back in 1999 the relibiality problems they had and i think that this is the case next year,not for Fiesta but for all cars.
C3 will be the more reliable car.

[A FONDO]

Guys, stop saying how poor was Hyundai at the beginning! It's totally incomparable. Don't you have an idea of their recources and infrastructure?! From the very beginning they showed not only high ambitions but also determination to achieve them. That's why so many professionals went there without doubt. And in 2016 they were "working" even more than VW. What do we have in Finland at the same time - one old man who has a hobby to drive rally cars at safe pace and hates anyone else's opinions! Only facility upgrade to meet WRT demands is one external toilet. Sorry but the bashing they get here is at the bare minimum. Of course it's better to have them rather than not, do not get me wrong.

[Essaj]

Guys, stop saying how poor was Hyundai at the beginning! It's totally incomparable. Don't you have an idea of their recources and infrastructure?! From the very beginning they showed not only high ambitions but also determination to achieve them. That's why so many professionals went there without doubt. And in 2016 they were "working" even more than VW. What do we have in Finland at the same time - one old man who has a hobby to drive rally cars at safe pace and hates anyone else's opinions! Only facility upgrade to meet WRT demands is one external toilet. Sorry but the bashing they get here is at the bare minimum. Of course it's better to have them rather than not, do not get me wrong.

Seriously I don't get people like you, how is Mäkinen any different than Malcolm? both are ex drivers, they also have their facilities at bulding that was not ment to be WRC factory from get go and are you saying that TGR guys arent working their butts off to make the car as good as possible? How can you say that Mäkinen hates opinions from others? Have you seen what they have already done and at the moment doing to their current place in Puuppola? it's seems to be bit more than just one toilet.
Fact is Hyundai was poor at beginning, just like we all expect Toyota to be but I have faith in them.

[Allez Andruet]

Guys, stop saying how poor was Hyundai at the beginning! It's totally incomparable. Don't you have an idea of their recources and infrastructure?! From the very beginning they showed not only high ambitions but also determination to achieve them. That's why so many professionals went there without doubt. And in 2016 they were "working" even more than VW. What do we have in Finland at the same time - one old man who has a hobby to drive rally cars at safe pace and hates anyone else's opinions! Only facility upgrade to meet WRT demands is one external toilet. Sorry but the bashing they get here is at the bare minimum. Of course it's better to have them rather than not, do not get me wrong.
This is exactly the kind of BS post by some total idiot which was referred to in the earlier post.

[AL14]

Everybody wants Toyota to be a winning car. Nobody hopes the opposite. But someone can try to predict what will be the outcome judging from what he knows and that prediction can be negative.
It's totally normal unless you live in a fairy tale where everything is positive and nothing bad happens.

[pantealex]

Let´s see how Monte goes...

Hope everyone remembers who Hyundais 1st Monte went...

And Hyundai is best team now, maybe. So I believe Toyota can do same.

If Toyota is Top 5 in first rallies I´m happy. But I believe they will get some podium places next year, 1st place finish, don´t think so.

[AMSS]

Let´s see how Monte goes...

Hope everyone remembers who Hyundais 1st Monte went...

And Hyundai is best team now, maybe. So I believe Toyota can do same.

If Toyota is Top 5 in first rallies I´m happy. But I believe they will get some podium places next year, 1st place finish, don´t think so.

If I remember correctly than first Monte for Peugeot 206 WRC was even worse I think none of the cars started to the rally because battery was dead after parc ferme, so Toyotas start can`t be worse than that :)

[COD]

The more I hear bashing like this - the more I want Toyota to succeed.
Seriously, why are you so negative about it? Yes, I know Yaris is built in a farm of Makinen… but from another point of view it looks quite good:
It has backing from Toyota
It has sponsor
It looks nice (!)
It looks quite good on recent tests (remember Hyundai in 2014)
It’s drivers lineup looks like this:
One IRC and S-WRC champion who never had proper chance to shine in WRC (and did a lot of testing in Yaris)
One fast guy who has 16 WRC wins under his belt (okay, he might not be next WRC champion, but he definitely can show Yaris potential)
One young gun

For me, all of it looks quite nice! I wish all the best for them!

Its not that I hope they fail, quite the opposite. Just that with all the info I have and what I have followed, it just doesn't look good. Like I said, I hope they prove me wrong

[Rallyper]

Guys, stop saying how poor was Hyundai at the beginning! It's totally incomparable. Don't you have an idea of their recources and infrastructure?! From the very beginning they showed not only high ambitions but also determination to achieve them. That's why so many professionals went there without doubt. And in 2016 they were "working" even more than VW. What do we have in Finland at the same time - one old man who has a hobby to drive rally cars at safe pace and hates anyone else's opinions! Only facility upgrade to meet WRT demands is one external toilet. Sorry but the bashing they get here is at the bare minimum. Of course it's better to have them rather than not, do not get me wrong.

So, what do you like in the sport of rallying (WRC) ?? Tell us.

[N.O.T]

No matter how hard the propaganda machine works that thing that makinen put together is nothing more than a finnish nationalistic flop tower.

Its going to be really fun when the same propaganda machine will try and defend the nothingness they produce event by event.

I wonder if latvala has brought with him any posters from his VW days to hang around.

pathetic and useless.

[Mirek]

That´s true! Not very good situation if the car is much weaker that others. The season 2017 is in any case the development year for the Toyota Gazoo Racing WRC, but there must be some potential to show if it will be possible to win in 2018.

It's development year for all teams. That's why these forced restarts via change of rules are done from time to time. The aim is to bring all teams on the same start line (of course not totally possible). All of them have same conditions for future development - same number of jokers etc.

[Rally Power]

Its not that I hope they fail, quite the opposite. Just that with all the info I have and what I have followed, it just doesn't look good. Like I said, I hope they prove me wrong

That's a fair point but probably the info you got is the same we got: they’ve started a WRC team from almost scratch; their facilities aren’t state of the art but they’re good enough for the job; despite the remote location they’ve managed to attract experienced staff; they’ve designed and hugely tested a whole new WRC car in a very limited time; the car is ready and will be homologated without delay; they’ve got a balanced driver line up for their first season…honestly, anyone looking at this facts in a sensible and fair way will be puzzled to find all the wrong doings appointed by the eager critics of this Makinen/Toyota venture. To me they've already proved they're a serious WRC contender and I'm quite happy to see Toyota back in WRC alongside TMR. Best luck to them!

[Mirek]

If I remember correctly than first Monte for Peugeot 206 WRC was even worse I think none of the cars started to the rally because battery was dead after parc ferme, so Toyotas start can`t be worse than that :)

Wasn't it Škoda's first WRC start or Peugeot failed so hard too? I don't remember anymore :(