Toyota announces WRC plans [Archive] - Page 7

Rallyper

14th July 2016, 15:16

He was almost beaten by Emil Bergkvist in a group N Mitsubishi (while driving a Skoda Fabia wrc). I don't think so...

Well, I´ve checked. Emil is very fast, maybe even faster than PG in equal cars, though I doubt he is at this time in EB´s career. In SSR PG was 0,5 - 1 sec/km faster than Emil.
PG in WRC Skoda - Emil in Evo IX. Hard to make judgement, Småland has not so fast stages.

However - Emil is the future. And PG (sorry) is history. Maybe could help Tommi a couple of years, but still ...

Franky

14th July 2016, 18:26

the finnish media... nobody else cares how will this village team flop.

But you do ;)

N.O.T

14th July 2016, 18:44

But you do ;)

of course i am, are you crazy ? last time i was that happy about a flop was when Makinen was getting beaten senseless like a Dog without an owner by Solberg who exposed what an overrated amateur he was.

giù tutto!

14th July 2016, 18:52

Yes, but V&V were his managers.

And what V&V did for Ogier? He was already at the top level and backed by FFSA, so the hang around crew just wanted to get part of his money. Ogier was quite fed up for that and said at least once that it looks like manager needs him more than he needs the manager.
I'm afraid that contract with these "managers" can be the last nail for Bergkvist career. In this business there are many kind of managers. Unfortunately all of them are not professionals. It is possible to ride with a name of champion for a while, but at the service park people know the truth.

traxx

15th July 2016, 09:24

http://www.mtv.fi/sport/ralli

5 new story from Tommi/Toyota (in finnish only)

Any translation please ? I can't get the explanation about Zotos with Google translation :(

cali

15th July 2016, 10:25

Tommi said that Zotos wanted to be more with his family in Greece.

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

Allez Andruet

15th July 2016, 10:28

Any translation please ? I can't get the explanation about Zotos with Google translation :(

Tommi says, that the buzz (about Zotos leaving) has been totally overdramatized and shouldn't even been mentioned about in magazines like Autosport. According to Tommi, it was a joint decision that Zotos would leave - mainly due to the fact, that Zotos didn't want to travel that much (well, according to Tommi atleast). In addition to all that, Tommi says that Zotos still is his good friend that he has absolutely no clue where all the talk about them being unable to work together has arised in the first place.

Ofcourse he said a lot of other things as well, but that's pretty much the Zotos part :)

Allez Andruet

15th July 2016, 10:39

...and about the Mikko Hirvonen interview that was in Finnish:

He actually didn't say that hadn't spoke with Tommi. He said that he hadn't spoke with Tommi in details about when and how much he'd be involved in testing - if any. But clearly he's been in some talks with him.

Mikko also ruled out any possibility of returning to WRC, even for single rallies. He said that it would require so much work (regarding pacenotes and everything) that he's no longer intrested, but instead wants to spend time with his family. Testing every now and then is possible, but not competing.

Simmi

15th July 2016, 10:46

Rallyper

15th July 2016, 12:45

And what V&V did for Ogier? He was already at the top level and backed by FFSA, so the hang around crew just wanted to get part of his money. Ogier was quite fed up for that and said at least once that it looks like manager needs him more than he needs the manager.
I'm afraid that contract with these "managers" can be the last nail for Bergkvist career. In this business there are many kind of managers. Unfortunately all of them are not professionals. It is possible to ride with a name of champion for a while, but at the service park people know the truth.

The truth about manager I guess you mean. So what´s the truth about V&V then? We all want Bergkvist to succeed, don´t we?

Sulland

15th July 2016, 17:22

Has Makinen said anything about a R5 Yaris, and if yes when are they planning to get that out for sale?

KiwiWRCfan

18th July 2016, 01:12

some strong words from the pen of Martin Holmes
http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/wrc/10601-tommi-makinen-at-war-with-media

GravelBen

18th July 2016, 02:34

some strong words from the pen of Martin Holmes
http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/wrc/10601-tommi-makinen-at-war-with-media

I'm not sure whether Tommi is at war with the media or if its just the media at war with Tommi because they're sour about not being told everything?

KiwiWRCfan

18th July 2016, 04:18

I'm not sure whether Tommi is at war with the media or if its just the media at war with Tommi because they're sour about not being told everything?
excellent point you make Ben. I think you may be correct

Simmi

18th July 2016, 08:50

some strong words from the pen of Martin Holmes
http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/wrc/10601-tommi-makinen-at-war-with-media

Strange article that one. But he does confirm what I said a few posts back, in that the lack of PR and information just leaves people to fill the void with rumours.

Tommi would certainly have a lot less journalists badgering him if this role was in place. And I completely agree with GravelBen's point.

AL14

18th July 2016, 08:55

in that the lack of PR and information just leaves people to fill the void with rumours.

...and suspicion that there's something wrong with the project.

pantealex

18th July 2016, 08:56

They (and we all) should blame Japanese Toyota people, they are the reason of Tommi´s silencenes.

AndyRAC

18th July 2016, 10:35

They (and we all) should blame Japanese Toyota people, they are the reason of Tommi´s silences.

Hmm, I'm not sure about that. The Toyota WEC programme has been a lot more open with regards to PR, etc
I think this is about Tommi not wanting to give anything away.....

AL14

18th July 2016, 10:38

Hmm, I'm not sure about that. The Toyota WEC programme has been a lot more open with regards to PR, etc
I think this is about Tommi not wanting to give anything away.....

I don't know, pantealex seems pretty much informed about the situation. Anyway, it's not important who's fault for the lack of infos, wether it is Tommi or japanese guys, they're not promising well...

Lundefaret

18th July 2016, 12:05

I don't know, pantealex seems pretty much informed about the situation. Anyway, it's not important who's fault for the lack of infos, wether it is Tommi or japanese guys, they're not promising well...

Remember that this is still a team in its beginning. They are hard at work developing cars, building cars, testing cars, building a site, hiring people, etc etc. It is a huge task to have all this ready for 2017, and this will off course lead to long nights, stress etc. That this should go completely problem free would not be expected. And in this extremely pressing times, talking to journalists may not be on top of the teams "to do-list"
So Keep Calm And Carry on. We wont start to see the true potential of the Tommi Mäkinen/Toyota effort before 2018. And a lot will happen until then.

AL14

18th July 2016, 12:27

Remember that this is still a team in its beginning. They are hard at work developing cars, building cars, testing cars, building a site, hiring people, etc etc. It is a huge task to have all this ready for 2017, and this will off course lead to long nights, stress etc. That this should go completely problem free would not be expected. And in this extremely pressing times, talking to journalists may not be on top of the teams "to do-list"
So Keep Calm And Carry on. We wont start to see the true potential of the Tommi Mäkinen/Toyota effort before 2018. And a lot will happen until then.

Ole, I'm not judging anyone. I wait the stage times for that. And there is no doubt they are working hard.
But like always there are facts and clues, that don't make me bet one cent on this... I have seen newcomers in a better situation. Hyundai had a proper lineup when they entered. VW had Ogier/Latvala already... They don't... I can assure I am "calm", contrary to them. :)

Lundefaret

18th July 2016, 14:57

Ole, I'm not judging anyone. I wait the stage times for that. And there is no doubt they are working hard.
But like always there are facts and clues, that don't make me bet one cent on this... I have seen newcomers in a better situation. Hyundai had a proper lineup when they entered. VW had Ogier/Latvala already... They don't... I can assure I am "calm", contrary to them. :)

I know you are not judging :)

But if you look at Hyundai, they´ve been in the WRC full time since 2014, and its only this year that they are really starting to make their mark.

Volkswagen had a more delayed start, as did Citroën when it started the WRC, and both those teams had more than a year more time than Toyota before the first competition. And both started with the best driver line ups we have seen in WRC.

The TMG effort would have had a benefit of the time, but I am sure its a very good reason for Toyoda to axe that effort. And I am also sure that TMGs success in Le Mans this year has a lot to do with loosing the WRC effort, and having to prove something.

Tommi/Toyota has one big challenge, and that is that there are no top drivers wanting to go to Toyota in their first year, before they see how fast the car is. But this is not necessarily a bad thing, because it takes away some of the pressure in their first year of competition, and leads to a "softer" start.
If the car isnt that fast, one can "blame" it on the driver. If the car is really fast, one can "blame" it on the car. A win-win for Toyota.

Zotos is gone, is it good or bad? Difficult to say, but maybe there wasn't room for two roosters in the hen house? And surely there are several sides to that story.

I am guessing that Tommi is currently working about 24/7 to make his mark also as a team boss in the WRC, and I am also guessing that when the potential of the Toyota WRC car is beginning to come to fruition in the later half of the 2017-season, the drivers situation will be solved.
So to judge this effort one way or the other - well, I think that is way too soon. :)

EightGear

18th July 2016, 15:03

And I am also sure that TMGs success in Le Mans this year has a lot to do with loosing the WRC effort, and having to prove something.

Ouch. Please don't call it a succes, it still hurts.

N.O.T

18th July 2016, 15:07

When do you think it will flop ? before the season starts ? mid season or after the end of 17 ?

Toyoda

19th July 2016, 03:25

When do you think it will flop ? before the season starts ? mid season or after the end of 17 ?

When will it flop... For you, it will flop before it starts? :D

N.O.T

19th July 2016, 09:35

When will it flop... For you, it will flop before it starts? :D

chances are

Before 12.34%
Mid season 32.67%
After 54.98%
Never because you suck NOT you loser 0.1%

GravelBen

19th July 2016, 09:56

Is it just me or does NOT seem a little insecure about his 'floppy'?

N.O.T

19th July 2016, 10:47

Is it just me or does NOT seem a little insecure about his 'floppy'?

I must say that 0.1% is a bit high, but i am having a good day so far and i feel generous.

pantealex

19th July 2016, 13:24

Reports say that weakest parts in their endurance testing (car #1)
Dampers (shock absorber), worst week 5 pieces totally gone.

br21

19th July 2016, 13:32

Reports say that weakest parts in their endurance testing (car #1)
Dampers (shock absorber), worst week 5 pieces totally gone.

They use Ohlins?

pantealex

19th July 2016, 13:36

They use Ohlins?

BOS I think, not 100% sure

DonJippo

19th July 2016, 14:50

Reports say that weakest parts in their endurance testing (car #1)
Dampers (shock absorber), worst week 5 pieces totally gone.

Poor design or bad parts?

Rallyper

19th July 2016, 15:30

Poor design or bad parts?

Could be whatever. I think even if you use Öhlins, you could make some parts yourself. And the dampers/suspension is mounted on parts belonging to car, eg. homemade WRC parts for Yaris.
So... not good anyway.

itix

19th July 2016, 17:05

BOS I think, not 100% sure
They use BOS, correct. (unless they have changed since last I heard). Weird decision but I'm sure they had their reasons.

Dunno if they are under contract or if they can change if they are unhappy. Maybe also external factors like Toyota has an agreement with them.

DonJippo

19th July 2016, 18:11

Could be whatever. I think even if you use Öhlins, you could make some parts yourself. And the dampers/suspension is mounted on parts belonging to car, eg. homemade WRC parts for Yaris.
So... not good anyway.

Suspension on Yaris is designed by Zotos who left ...

OldF

20th July 2016, 16:23

They use BOS, correct. (unless they have changed since last I heard). Weird decision but I'm sure they had their reasons.

Maybe the reason is that he used BOS dampers for the group N Subarus.

itix

21st July 2016, 11:16

Maybe the reason is that he used BOS dampers for the group N Subarus.
That's a really stupid reason if you are spearheading the WRC campaign of one the world's largest manufacturer.

TWRC

21st July 2016, 11:24

That's a really stupid reason if you are spearheading the WRC campaign of one the world's largest manufacturer.
Citroën also used BOS derived dampers on the DS3 and C4 I think. Maybe Toyota thought that was a good enough portfolio?

tommeke_B

21st July 2016, 11:51

Didn't Citroën use dampers from XTC?

Mirek

21st July 2016, 11:54

Those are on R5, aren't they? I have always thought they used their own dampers based on BOS design, at least with C4.

OldF

21st July 2016, 13:04

That's a really stupid reason if you are spearheading the WRC campaign of one the world's largest manufacturer.

Stupid with a tight schedule to work with a familiar company & people?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I interpret that Citroen has three different kind of damper solutions. The R3 with BOS dampers, R5 with dampers developed by Citroen and the WRC with dampers designed and built by Citroen.

R3:
http://www.citroenracing.com/en/client-competition/citroen-ds3-r3/

R5:
http://www.citroenracing.com/en/client-competition/ds3-r5/

“Very similar to a WRC, in terms of both handling and performance, the DS 3 R5 is equipped with dampers specifically developed by Citroën Racing.”

WRC:
http://www.citroenracing.com/en/citroen-ds3-wrc/

“The three-way adjustable shock absorbers (low- and high-speed compression and rebound) have been designed and built by Citroën Racing.”

KiwiWRCfan

21st July 2016, 13:20

Toyota Gazoo driver Hiroki Arai was making his own pace notes for first time during Rally Estonia
Source this article about his codriver Glenn Macneall http://www.rallyaustralia.com.au/macneall-ready-wrc-finland-toyota-gazoo/

itix

21st July 2016, 20:10

Stupid with a tight schedule to work with a familiar company & people?

Well I assume that they want to be the best at some point and I am guesstimating now but different dampers must work differently so if you chose one manufacturer you can't just swap in the future and expect the car to react the same.

If they found out that BOS was a limitation in the future they can't just put Reigers instead and expect them to work.

That's why I thought that selecting a company because you know them is bit silly.

Tommi isn't stupid so I hope that's not what he has done.

Zeakiwi

21st July 2016, 21:38

Mirek

21st July 2016, 22:03

As said BOS has been working with Citroën for many years and they kept winning. Sachs has been used by noone before VW brouht them in and they have been winning right from the start. For sure some brands have very good reputation but it doesn't mean the others can't create better product. Let them show what they can do.

TWRC

21st July 2016, 23:08

Sometimes it is about which company had the capacity/ resources to supply the rally team.
http://www.bos-engineering.com/english/produits.html
I wonder if Ohlins would not have been a preferable choice.
I have a feeling Citroën might be working with Ohlins, as in the WTCC car and on the R5 they have their dampers (might be wrong about the WTCC though, but I remember it to be Ohlins).

Zeakiwi

22nd July 2016, 02:11

Does anyone still use Bilstein?

janvanvurpa

22nd July 2016, 02:42

Does anyone still use Bilstein?
Lots of people do.

I'm in the middle of making 04 Subaru, O5 Subaru, 97 Subaru, 94 Golf, 95 BMW and 96 BMW struts all inverted 50mm..And here in Fortress America™ I've supplied a couple of hundred cars with full suspension...I like Bilstein for one good reason: they have kept the same notational system for the valving since time began---or at least the mid 1970s when I first began disassembling and modding them... so I can look and see if 260/90 is a bit soft both ways I can go to 300/100 and I know what I'm getting..

At higher levels and for the richer wannabes they "need" double compression damping, single rebound, hydraulish puffer, and the need to spend 2 x as much..

What I'm curious is does anybody down there in NZ or "the Western Island" still use DMS?

janvanvurpa

22nd July 2016, 03:06

Well I assume that they want to be the best at some point and I am guesstimating now but different dampers must work differently so if you chose one manufacturer you can't just swap in the future and expect the car to react the same.

If they found out that BOS was a limitation in the future they can't just put Reigers instead and expect them to work.

That's why I thought that selecting a company because you know them is bit silly.

Tommi isn't stupid so I hope that's not what he has done.

hördu, everybody knows what's inside the others...Everybody would be crazy NOT to know..
There are only so many ways to skin a cat.

Way back when Kenta Öhlin there at pappas Öhlins Mekaniska Verkstand in Sollentuna when he was designing his stuff and VM250 rider Tea-Leaf Hansen from Upplands-Väsby was being the "test victim" there were on one big table all disassembled and laid out dampers from Torleifs works Kawasaki (KYB hand built), KYB series tillverkning, works KYB from Yamaha, Showa, production bike Bilstein, production car Bilstein, Koni, White Power from Holland (modded car Bilsteins) and maybe some others..
All laid out and everything measured, and examined and tested for strength---shock shaf into vise and a big long ring-nyckel ove one end and then BEND! Bilstein shaft was 10mm...production Öhlins were 14mm---which is several times stronger..

So no real secrets..

Much more important is the openness of the mind of whoever is in charge...Some "vet allt" and are compelled to have their way, some listen...and know that more is done better thru cooperation...
Tommi Has a relationahip with somebody , that's important because he has a very hard head and even engineers have egos--hell even machinists/fabricator guys (like me) have egos and thick heads..So relationship first, then they can make anything.

(My bossback then, Peter Strandh, also (like ever single person at Öhlins) was from Upplands-Väsby (and everybody was in UVMK) had the subcontract to make the automated welder to weld the bottom eyelet forging onto the shock tubes....so we were there many evenings when the prototype stage was going over to production. I still make suspension 40 years later..)

SubaruNorway

22nd July 2016, 07:44

I have a feeling Citroën might be working with Ohlins, as in the WTCC car and on the R5 they have their dampers (might be wrong about the WTCC though, but I remember it to be Ohlins).

Grøndal's R5 had Öhlins

Jeppe

22nd July 2016, 11:02

Grøndal's R5 had Öhlins

Yes. All Citroen R5´s got Öhlins dampers..

rogef

22nd July 2016, 11:16

There are some users on Twitter stating that FIA has stated that the Yaris rear wing is illegal because it is not according to regulations 2017. Does anyone know more about this?

traxx

22nd July 2016, 12:35

Here is the Motorsport News article about that :
http://fr.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=15nlpo1&s=9

pantealex

22nd July 2016, 13:26

There are some users on Twitter stating that FIA has stated that the Yaris rear wing is illegal because it is not according to regulations 2017. Does anyone know more about this?

Toyota (Tommi) has said after 1st test that wings are not even close to final versions...

Rallyper

22nd July 2016, 14:14

hördu, everybody knows what's inside the others...Everybody would be crazy NOT to know..
There are only so many ways to skin a cat.

Way back when Kenta Öhlin there at pappas Öhlins Mekaniska Verkstand in Sollentuna when he was designing his stuff and VM250 rider Tea-Leaf Hansen from Upplands-Väsby was being the "test victim" there were on one big table all disassembled and laid out dampers from Torleifs works Kawasaki (KYB hand built), KYB series tillverkning, works KYB from Yamaha, Showa, production bike Bilstein, production car Bilstein, Koni, White Power from Holland (modded car Bilsteins) and maybe some others..
All laid out and everything measured, and examined and tested for strength---shock shaf into vise and a big long ring-nyckel ove one end and then BEND! Bilstein shaft was 10mm...production Öhlins were 14mm---which is several times stronger..

So no real secrets..

Much more important is the openness of the mind of whoever is in charge...Some "vet allt" and are compelled to have their way, some listen...and know that more is done better thru cooperation...
Tommi Has a relationahip with somebody , that's important because he has a very hard head and even engineers have egos--hell even machinists/fabricator guys (like me) have egos and thick heads..So relationship first, then they can make anything.

(My bossback then, Peter Strandh, also (like ever single person at Öhlins) was from Upplands-Väsby (and everybody was in UVMK) had the subcontract to make the automated welder to weld the bottom eyelet forging onto the shock tubes....so we were there many evenings when the prototype stage was going over to production. I still make suspension 40 years later..)

So for rounding up, you´re saying the brand doesn´t mean a lot. Only how the whole package is constructed and mounted/adjusted indoors own workshop (like Toyota in this case) by people knowing how to do. Right?
Like I tried to say as well.
Your swenglish is gorgeous btw!! :)

Jack4688`

22nd July 2016, 14:27

Toyota (Tommi) has said after 1st test that wings are not even close to final versions...

This year in F1 Williams tested a rear wing sinilar to thise seen between 1993-4 - absolutely illegal but sometimes testing with something illegal can afford you to gain understanding for use with a future homologated design

janvanvurpa

22nd July 2016, 16:55

So for rounding up, you´re saying the brand doesn´t mean a lot. Only how the whole package is constructed and mounted/adjusted indoors own workshop (like Toyota in this case) by people knowing how to do. Right?
Like I tried to say as well.
Your swenglish is gorgeous btw!! :)

Nååå grabben det har varit 40 år sen jag bodde där men det lämnade ett betydesfult intryck i skallen. Där lärde jag mycket.
Även om nuförtiden jag låter som 'anon från Österbotin eller tom tär Finlandsvenkar'.

What I'm suggesting is hardware, 'stuff' is less important than the attitude of those using it..in reality.

N.O.T

22nd July 2016, 22:43

The situation at toyota right now... brace yourselves for the flop kids.

http://i.imgur.com/WPuWqOI.png

itix

23rd July 2016, 01:05

Here is the Motorsport News article about that :
http://fr.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=15nlpo1&s=9

People with sense and clear sight in VW. Well he designed the car so I guess he is the person that has the most of it.

I still think they are going to be mighty competitive though...

Also removing the slots on the rear wing should be a small issue for Toyota.

OldF

23rd July 2016, 19:34

Simmi

25th July 2016, 08:41

Someone finally listened at Toyota.

Social media channels:
https://www.facebook.com/TOYOTAGAZOORacingWRC
https://twitter.com/TGR_WRC?lang=en
https://www.instagram.com/TGR_WRC/

Simmi

25th July 2016, 09:52

Toyota update piece on WRC.com - http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/july-2016/toyota-testing/page/3737--12-12-.html

Probably somewhere in between this and the rumours lies the real truth as to how well development is going. I hope it is going as well as they imply.

GigiGalliNo1

3rd August 2016, 09:15

pantealex

3rd August 2016, 09:28

So you believe that Tänak is the only current WRC driver who is candidate for TGR ?
I can tell you that there are others also...
and
Hänninen for sure will drive some events!

EstWRC

3rd August 2016, 09:30

tell then :p...Tänak i knew already some months ago that they started to negotiate.

GigiGalliNo1

3rd August 2016, 09:35

Words from Makinen. Hanninen will continue his test driver role regardless.

tomhlord

3rd August 2016, 12:38

Makinen has said this, two car team in 2017 with a possible third car being entered.

Car being tested now is a Mule, 2015 with 2017 internals.

Evans, Tanak, Lappi, Tidemand and Suninen candidates for WRC drivers in 2017.

Announcement after Rally Germany.

Interesting developments, hopefully it is soon after Rally Germany. To put (a very rough) timescale on the driver line-up to me indicates some progress of late.

Mirek

3rd August 2016, 12:41

Car being tested now is a Mule, 2015 with 2017 internals.

Clearly isn't.

GigiGalliNo1

3rd August 2016, 12:43

Clearly Makinen is quoted saying this.

Mirek

3rd August 2016, 12:48

Sorry but it's obvious that it's not true.

itix

3rd August 2016, 13:06

Clearly Makinen is quoted saying this.
Clearly you haven't been the most reliable source historically. Sorry for being rude but it's true.

N.O.T

3rd August 2016, 13:58

Clearly Makinen is quoted saying this.

Why are you doing this to yourself ? You obviously have no clue about the sport in general, is it some kind of mental issue like a compulsive disorder ?

Allez Andruet

3rd August 2016, 15:08

Makinen has said this, two car team in 2017 with a possible third car being entered.

Car being tested now is a Mule, 2015 with 2017 internals.

Evans, Tanak, Lappi, Tidemand and Suninen candidates for WRC drivers in 2017.

Announcement after Rally Germany.

Where excatly has he said these things? I've been following the Toyota WRC project quite closely from Finnish media (as it's probably been the best source so far) and I haven't come across these kind of statements.

Regarding the driver line-up, Tommi has said that Hänninen is "very likely to be one" (of the drivers) and has mentioned Esapekka Lappi by name as well. Also, it has been said the driver line-up would be revealed sometime after Rally Finland - that can basically mean anything from August to January.

The car obviously isn't 2015, that's quite easy to tell...

Simmi

3rd August 2016, 15:45

Makinen has said this, two car team in 2017 with a possible third car being entered.

Car being tested now is a Mule, 2015 with 2017 internals.

Evans, Tanak, Lappi, Tidemand and Suninen candidates for WRC drivers in 2017.

Announcement after Rally Germany.

To be fair to Matt all this information came out in Motorsport News this morning. The post would have been more credible if he'd credited the source - rather than vaguely trying to pass things off as his own information.

Regarding it being a mule - Tom Fowler says they are using the current model Yaris as the base car for these tests, with a new model Yaris confirmed in time for next season. He said "it won't be a problem for the new car - underneath it's not so different". It's a 2015 Yaris on the outside, 2017 car inside. So it is a mule in that sense.

Those drivers were all mentioned by Makinen. He also says Hanninen will likely be kept on next year. Mikko Hirvonen is confirmed as joining the test team this week. But Mikko doesn't want a WRC drive.

So it's all true - put the pitchforks down ;)

Mirek

3rd August 2016, 15:51

Regarding it being a mule - Tom Fowler says they are using the current model Yaris as the base car for these tests, with a new model Yaris confirmed in time for next season. He said "it won't be a problem for the new car - underneath it's not so different". It's a 2015 Yaris on the outside, 2017 car inside. So it is a mule in that sense.

Now I understand that it's two different things mixed together - stock base model and a WRC car. To put it in one sentence like GigiGalliNo1 did make it having a different meaning, i.e. that the test car is 2015 (TMR) car with different stuff inside which is clearly nonsense.

AL14

3rd August 2016, 15:55

To be fair to Matt all this information came out in Motorsport News this morning. The post would have been more credible if he'd credited the source - rather than vaguely trying to pass things off as his own information.

Regarding it being a mule - Tom Fowler says they are using the current model Yaris as the base car for these tests, with a new model Yaris confirmed in time for next season. He said "it won't be a problem for the new car - underneath it's not so different". It's a 2015 Yaris on the outside, 2017 car inside. So it is a mule in that sense.

Those drivers were all mentioned by Makinen. He also says Hanninen will likely be kept on next year. Mikko Hirvonen is confirmed as joining the test team this week. But Mikko doesn't want a WRC drive.

So it's all true - put the pitchforks down ;)

Are you really saying that there is not yet a Toyota Yaris 2017? Are they really testing a 2015 car with 2017 aerodynamics?
I want to think I misunderstand

Simmi

3rd August 2016, 16:01

Are you really saying that there is not yet a Toyota Yaris 2017? Are they really testing a 2015 car with 2017 aerodynamics?
I want to think I misunderstand

According to the article yes.

"We're able to produce the current test cars using data for the 2017 road car, so on the outside the test car looks like a 2015 car, but on the inside it's a 2017 car."

So I don't think it's a big problem. The final car will just look visually different. It does sound like it's going to be more aero-focused than their rivals according to Fowler. He also said they used "nothing" from the TMG Yaris. And reiterated they are working closely with Cologne on the engine.

danon

3rd August 2016, 18:40

Now I understand that it's two different things mixed together - stock base model and a WRC car. To put it in one sentence like....

Yes... YOUR smartness,

like a Skoda based Subaru...

http://4everstatic.com/pictures/674xX/cars/tuning/skoda-110l,-subaru-impreza-139264.jpg

AL14

3rd August 2016, 19:59

According to the article yes.

"We're able to produce the current test cars using data for the 2017 road car, so on the outside the test car looks like a 2015 car, but on the inside it's a 2017 car."

So I don't think it's a big problem. The final car will just look visually different. It does sound like it's going to be more aero-focused than their rivals according to Fowler. He also said they used "nothing" from the TMG Yaris. And reiterated they are working closely with Cologne on the engine.

I actually got the opposite and definitely I misunderstood it. I thought that the INSIDE was like 2015 and the OUTSIDE (the car body) like 2017. It had no sense lol. Sorry. :)

danon

3rd August 2016, 23:42

Mirek, next time don't play it all knowing smart guy!!!

Makinen has said this, two car team in 2017 with a possible third car being entered.

Car being tested now is a Mule, 2015 with 2017 internals.

Evans, Tanak, Lappi, Tidemand and Suninen candidates for WRC drivers in 2017.

Announcement after Rally Germany.

Clearly isn't.

Clearly Makinen is quoted saying this.

Sorry but it's obvious that it's not true.

Clearly you haven't been the most reliable source historically. Sorry for being rude but it's true.

Why are you doing this to yourself ? You obviously have no clue about the sport in general, is it some kind of mental issue like a compulsive disorder ?

To be fair to Matt all this information came out in Motorsport News this morning. The post would have been more credible if he'd credited the source - rather than vaguely trying to pass things off as his own information.

Regarding it being a mule - Tom Fowler says they are using the current model Yaris as the base car for these tests, with a new model Yaris confirmed in time for next season. He said "it won't be a problem for the new car - underneath it's not so different". It's a 2015 Yaris on the outside, 2017 car inside. So it is a mule in that sense.

Those drivers were all mentioned by Makinen. He also says Hanninen will likely be kept on next year. Mikko Hirvonen is confirmed as joining the test team this week. But Mikko doesn't want a WRC drive.

So it's all true - put the pitchforks down ;)

GigiGalliNo1

4th August 2016, 05:20

Clearly you haven't been the most reliable source historically. Sorry for being rude but it's true.

Wellllll........ not this time. I just forgot to post that I read it in the magazine. I assumed a few of us here did already, I was merely just writing it on the forum for N.O.T to believe.

To be fair to Matt all this information came out in Motorsport News this morning. The post would have been more credible if he'd credited the source - rather than vaguely trying to pass things off as his own information.

Tom Fowler, not Making! Paragraphs and quotes look all over the place on digital versions of magazines; My mistake, but as you can see, I clearly forgot to state where I got the info from - the same with the new M-Sport Fiesta for 2017 being tested with 2016 externals.

Simmi

4th August 2016, 10:35

Here's a lot of the MN article, now published on Autosport: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125608/toyota-closing-on-2017-driver-lineup?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Who would have thought back in January that Tanak and Evans would be the first names out of Makinen's mouth for Toyota seats haha.

EstWRC

4th August 2016, 10:49

Tänak needs same thing as Meeke, at least 2 year contract with either Toyota or M-sport or with an other team. Just look what it has done to Meeke and im sure it would be the same case with Tänak.

OldF

4th August 2016, 10:58

WRC 2017: Toyota boss Makinen closing on driver decision

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125608/toyota-closing-on-2017-driver-lineup?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Simmi

4th August 2016, 11:25

Tänak needs same thing as Meeke, at least 2 year contract with either Toyota or M-sport or with an other team. Just look what it has done to Meeke and im sure it would be the same case with Tänak.

I agree that Ott would benefit from some stability. The issue is whether he's shown enough for that long-term deal?

The reason I say that in relation to Toyota, is that I think what they will do is go for a pacey lineup to try to demonstrate the capabilities of the car next year. And by doing that they will be immediately looking to snare a bigger name in 2018 - so effectively one of the VW drivers.

In terms of upside I think you'd give Lappi a two-year deal for sure. Maybe even 3 if you rate him highly enough. I'd take Ott on a one-year deal with first option for 2018. And then have Hanninen run as a third car at select rounds.

I think that adds up to a really exciting lineup. Maybe also quite a big parts bill. But if the speed is there I think they will showcase it. Then the aim is to challenge for wins in 2018 from what Tommi says.

Simmi

4th August 2016, 11:31

I don't know this for a fact but I'd also be amazed if Breen wasn't added to that list of Tommi's after his performance in Finland. For sure that interview will have been done earlier during the rally week.

pantealex

4th August 2016, 12:39

itix

4th August 2016, 13:04

Those cars (#1 #2 and #3) are all made from standard road cars taken from product line which is in France. In always exactly same that you see in Toyota stores, ie. complete road cars!
Those actual rally-cars will be made from new body-shells, not from complete cars.
Well that sounds reasonable to me since TMR built a car from scratch rather than continue what TMG did.

What I thought was meant with 2015 mule car was that it was one of the TMGs with 2017 internals which makes about zero sense since it is known that TMR built the cars from scratch instead of continuing the work of TMG.

What does concern me is that the homologation is in October which is soon. At that point they need to know the dimensions and weight of almost every single component on the car and present this to the FIA. If Hyundai got a fine for a window, how many things won't there be on the body shell that TMR (and Ford which is in the same boat) will have to guess. Or is the homologation just for the moving parts so far?

Simmi

4th August 2016, 14:11

Off the back of the Autosport article VF interviewed Tidemand about Toyota.

http://www.vf.se/sport/bilsport/tidemand-aktuell-toyota

Saying all the right things, including that he'd be happy to spend another year in WRC2. A couple of rounds ago his stock was higher than Lappi I thought. But a mistake in Finland and then whatever happened to break the ball joint in Poland have not helped him. Key rallies at the moment for these WRC2 guys.

EstWRC

4th August 2016, 14:21

Simmi

4th August 2016, 14:41

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/nachrichten/artikel/d/2016/08/04/transfermarkt-neuville-als-koenigsfigur/

This site now telling that Neuville is the main key . Autosport didn't mention him at all but I guess this is what user pantelaex meant when he said Tänak isn't the only WRC driver.

Yeah very interesting. It kind of reads like Tommi mentioned Thierry in the same press briefing? For sure Neuville is the key, in the sense that he's the biggest name driver available and currently occupies one of the best seats in the WRC.

I thought also Ostberg was in the mix, but maybe recent performances have put Toyota off?

tomhlord

4th August 2016, 16:06

I thought also Ostberg was in the mix, but maybe recent performances have put Toyota off?

Probably true. For me Ostberg is a 3rd driver if the rules let you run 3 cars, with the first 2 to finish scoring manufacturer points. A safe pair of hands to get points on the board. But if those aren't the rule, then IMHO, he shouldn't be on the Toyota list. More likely his budget goes to Malcom in 2017.

Rallyper

4th August 2016, 16:51

Tidemand had 3,8 secs on Sunninen before last stage. He went for it and didn´t succeed, however he showed great sisu and it might be a positive thing for him.

CWJ

4th August 2016, 17:01

Tidemand had 3,8 secs on Sunninen before last stage. He went for it and didn´t succeed, however he showed great sisu and it might be a positive thing for him.

For powerstage Tidemand was suddenly first in the road. In my opinion that was his real problem while pushing.

Rally Power

4th August 2016, 17:58

Those cars (#1 #2 and #3) are all made from standard road cars taken from product line which is in France. In always exactly same that you see in Toyota stores, ie. complete road cars!
Those actual rally-cars will be made from new body-shells, not from complete cars.

That’s even more confusing…why didn’t they get new shells from the production line to make the test cars?

Probably I’m wrong, but from Fowler’s words I’ve got the impression that Toyota is going to release a new Yaris model and TMR will be able to homologate a WRC version in time for next season, as they’ll use the mechanical components they’ve been testing (designed under 2017 rules).

Anyway, current TMR’s test cars and the previous ones from TMG can be quite different, but they’re both based on the 2010 production model, that got an Aygo inspired facelift in late 2014 (2015 MY), already incorporated on TMR’s cars.

Allez Andruet

4th August 2016, 18:15

Intresting times... Neuville ofcourse is a no-brainer, if he's available and willing to sign. It would also be a strange move to let Hänninen go, now that he's been the main test driver and knows the car and the rallies (just like Tommi mentioned in the Motorsport News article). There something "Meeke-esque" with Hänninen - he's proven he's fast (2014 Italy, Poland, Finland and during all those Skoda years) when given the right opportunity, but the breaktrough result hasn't materialized yet. IMO Hänninen needs (and deserves as well) one full season to make it or break it. If I was Tommi, in 2017 Neuville (or Tänäk or similar, the #1 driver) would start all rallies with Hänninen being in the second car. Then Lappi (or Tidemand or Suninen) could be entered in the third car once that set-up is ready.

Mariusz

4th August 2016, 18:26

Neuville could actually go to Citroen which I believe would be a safer option that Toyota for him, if he wants to leave Hyundai of course. Toyota will probably start in a similar way as Hyundai did in 2014. An immature car with issues that will be ironed out during the first 2 seasons. So what is in Toyota that would make Neuville switch and go through the same story again?

Simmi

4th August 2016, 18:34

So what is in Toyota that would make Neuville switch and go through the same story again?

$$$?

Not saying that's what motivates Neuville by any means. But Toyota probably have a bit more to throw around compared to Citroen.

If I was Thierry I'd go to Citroen. I've got a good feeling about the C3. He's going to have a hard team-mate battle wherever he goes.

Mintexmemory

4th August 2016, 19:55

$$$?

Not saying that's what motivates Neuville by any means. But Toyota probably have a bit more to throw around compared to Citroen.

If I was Thierry I'd go to Citroen. I've got a good feeling about the C3. He's going to have a hard team-mate battle wherever he goes.

Who says Citroen will want Neuville? Meeke is now nailed on. Assume there are 2 more seats would Matton give one at great cost to Neuville or both to the cheaper next generation?

br21

4th August 2016, 20:11

Yves Matton connects Neuville with Citroen. They already worked together in the past, and rumors say it's possible they will cooperate again soon.

seb_sh

4th August 2016, 20:17

Indeed, Matton said Neuville (and I think Sordo also but I'm not sure) is his target for the 2nd Citroen. If he can't get one of them he will look somewhere else.

Makinen on driver prospects: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125608/toyota-closing-on-2017-driver-lineup
in short he will discuss in Japan and depending on strategy (longer or shorter term) he will choose between Tanak, Evans, Suninen, Lappi and Tidemand. Confirms Hanninen will be there and says 2017 will be just a learning year. Also says they will start with 2 cars and add a 3rd after a few rallies.

MM WRC

4th August 2016, 20:19

Who says Citroen will want Neuville? Meeke is now nailed on. Assume there are 2 more seats would Matton give one at great cost to Neuville or both to the cheaper next generation?

Any team (except for VW) would take Neuville. Of course they can hire cheaper drivers, but if they did that, why are they in WRC at all? It's pretty important part of this whole thing to win rallies and possibly the manufacturers' title. So are the teams going to want someone like Neuville who is fast and scores a lot of points or some rookie who is just cheap? M-Sport is running Camilli basically because they can't afford anyone else. And Citroen is a team with both money and potential for manufacturers' title.

Lundefaret

4th August 2016, 21:02

Who says Citroen will want Neuville? Meeke is now nailed on. Assume there are 2 more seats would Matton give one at great cost to Neuville or both to the cheaper next generation?

Matton as been very outspoken on the fact that he wants Neuville, and Citroën always sets the manufacturer title higher than the drivers title, so he wants to WRC drivers that can take points in every rally.
Historically Citroën - even with Loeb - most often put the upcoming talent in the third car.
If Neuville goes to Citroën I doubt Lefevbre or Breen can hope for a Citroën ride in 2017, unless they change their mind and enter a third car.

itix

4th August 2016, 22:43

Probably I’m wrong, but from Fowler’s words I’ve got the impression that Toyota is going to release a new Yaris model and TMR will be able to homologate a WRC version in time for next season, as they’ll use the mechanical components they’ve been testing (designed under 2017 rules).

That's what I thought as well... That there will be a new model body shell. They are required to homologate things like Windows and roll cage etc and I wonder how the hell they can do that without a body shell.

That is what I can't figure out. They are not alone in this situation as Ford and VW is in the same boat if I have understood things right.

I read somewhere here that homologation was in October but maybe that was just for some parts.

pantealex

5th August 2016, 08:48

Final homologation is middle of October.
and don´t worry Tommi has many of those new body sells already. (Situation was different 6-12months ago)

and same goes for Ford and VW, new body type for 2017.

dimviii

5th August 2016, 11:23

so only citroen and hyundai already testing with ''real' chassis

tommeke_B

6th August 2016, 09:30

A few photos from the team base in Finland, taken by well-known Belgian tv presenter Paul Fraikin (well-known from "Champions").

https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13909080_10155928183348644_4980007842652118768_o.j pg

https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13923277_10155928190593644_2004006736517927302_o.j pg

https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13963007_10155928191398644_250171372947951174_o.jp g

I think it's the first farm that makes works competition cars. :D According to a team member I spoke in Finland, there are some 93 or 95 people working for Toyota in Finland at this moment. Since april, they had an average of 3 new employees every week. Engines are coming from TMG, as previously posted on the forum here. Other than that it was quite clear that the team member was told to keep his mouth shut. :)

samWRC

6th August 2016, 09:40

Looks ridiculously small place for a works team :)

tommeke_B

6th August 2016, 10:25

Few more pics, not that small in fact.

https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13937752_10155927402738644_9203106551681841026_o.j pg

https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13680161_10155927403913644_8895046313615238937_o.j pg

https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13937939_10155927403313644_2486451055004100391_o.j pg

Sulland

6th August 2016, 10:34

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddk2JUN4lKo

MSport and McLaren also started with small headquarters once.
But it looks ok size to build two cars in, when engines comes from Germany.

I believe in this project for two reasons
Toyota has rescources when Tommi sees the need.
Finland is the world number 1 country when it comes to Rally, and they have "Sisu"!

Prediction:
Ok 2017, with a few podiums.
Better 2018 fighting for victories.
Champion in 2019.

Simmi

6th August 2016, 10:50

In the Motorsport News article earlier this week Tom Fowler (ex-M-Sport) said, when asked about the factory:

"M-Sport have got their own hydraulic rigs and dynos already, for us to have that as a goal in our first year would be a mistake. Investing in the factory would mean we wouldn't have a car right now. Our facilities are therefore targeted. We have exactly what we need and we don't have anything that's not necessary or anything that's a massive investment in time to put in place."

He goes on to say: "Last year we were a very small group of people. Last August we didn't even have a design office, yet we have a car running in April. The only way you can do that is by not using normal working practice."

EstWRC

8th August 2016, 12:46

Teemu / Rallirinki ‏@HartusvuoriWRC 2h
Tommi Mäkinen confirms @RovanperaRacing tested @TGR_WRC #Yaris2017 last weekend in Eastern Finland. Strong rumours about Lappi testing too.

http://www.mtv.fi/sport/ralli/uutinen/artikkeli/tommi-makinen-vakuuttui-15-vuotiaan-suomalaislupauksen-wrc-testista-hyva-ote-autoon/6019398

Hartusvuori

8th August 2016, 12:53

Tommi Mäkinen confirms @RovanperaRacing tested @TGR_WRC #Yaris2017 last weekend in Eastern Finland. Strong rumours about Lappi testing too.

http://www.mtv.fi/sport/ralli/uutinen/artikkeli/tommi-makinen-vakuuttui-15-vuotiaan-suomalaislupauksen-wrc-testista-hyva-ote-autoon/6019398

You could at least quote whose tweet you copypasted. But so is the case. Things are getting more interesting around Toyota again.

EstWRC

8th August 2016, 13:21

ok sorry it was your tweet.

EstWRC

8th August 2016, 19:11

Tommi talking about bringing Toyota back https://www.goodwood.com/grrc/columnists/mystery-monday/2016/8/mystery-monday-tommi-makinen--i-cant-wait-to-bring-toyota-back-to-the-wrc-in-2017/

this time Neuville is mentioned but not Tänak, interesting.

EstWRC

9th August 2016, 11:02

Different concept will surprise WRC opposition in 2017, says Toyota http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125645/toyota-promises-surprises-with-wrc-design

Simmi

9th August 2016, 12:12

Is this the first time they've run that rear bumper?

https://twitter.com/TGR_WRC/status/762962986231271424?lang=en

Simmi

9th August 2016, 13:14

GigiGalliNo1

9th August 2016, 14:31

2015 shape car, with 2017 spec inside. I told you. (Not you Simmi)

Andre Oliveira

9th August 2016, 18:06

Is this the first time they've run that rear bumper?

https://twitter.com/TGR_WRC/status/762962986231271424?lang=en

No. Alleready runned in last test.

tomhlord

10th August 2016, 10:54

And six days after everyone fell out about it - Autosport finally publish the Tom Fowler quotes about the new car.

I think the huge aero focus is particularly interesting - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125645/toyota-promises-surprises-with-wrc-design

6 days because they lead with the interview in Motorsport News, a paid physical paper from the same group. Then, if you want it for free, you wait for the associated Autosport article.

Simmi

10th August 2016, 12:16

6 days because they lead with the interview in Motorsport News, a paid physical paper from the same group. Then, if you want it for free, you wait for the associated Autosport article.

Yep well aware of that I subscribe to both. Still not sure six days is optimal. Normally you struggle to get hold of MN in the UK after a few days. The two copies on sale in each place get sold.

EstWRC

24th August 2016, 09:55

so Mäkinen said the decision for drivers is likely to happen after germany and now when Lappi has admitted that he was in factory and is in talks with them...

My guess is Tänak/Lappi and Hänninen will join them whenever the third car is ready.

er88

24th August 2016, 11:41

Tanak makes perfect sense considering Tommi said he wasn't necessarily looking for solid finishes next year, and instead wanted to find a driver who would drive the car to the absolute maximum to find out just how fast it is. Suggested he'd rather have a driver winning stages even if it ended in crashes, than signing a driver who couldn't find the true limit of the car

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

EstWRC

24th August 2016, 13:52

the info i have got is Tänak is very close and maybe even had already been signed if one other guy had already decided where he wants to be next year.

RAS007

24th August 2016, 13:57

Allez Andruet

24th August 2016, 14:21

My guess is Tänak/Lappi and Hänninen will join them whenever the third car is ready.
I'd rather give the other full season (alongside Tänak) to Hänninen and give the third car to Lappi whenever it's ready. As hot as Lappi is, he's yet to drive a WRC car and you never know how that'll turn out. So in that sense Hänninen is more "reliable" and the team can possibly benefit more from his input during the first year of developing the car.

BicioWrc

24th August 2016, 16:16

EstWRC, do you think for Ott will be good solution? i'm a bit surprise to not hear rumors about him on the radar of Hyundai, if really Neuville will go to citroen...
I strongly believe in his talent, but also Ott seem a guy that need always a bit of psicological support from the team staff,expecially from the boss, and i have a bit of fear of Makinen behave in case things will not take immediately the right direction...

AL14

24th August 2016, 22:11

EstWRC, do you think for Ott will be good solution?

A 3 year contract is always a good solution unless you are Ogier. M-Sport will never give him a good car. Let alone DMACKS in their first years... Toyota will struggle a lot at the beginning I guess but at least Tanak will drive with a bit cleaner mind.

Look at what a longterm contract has done to Paddon and Meeke. Even if Toyota is a very big question mark with a lot of doubts around their performances I think it would be definitely good for Tanak considering the options he has.

Simmi

24th August 2016, 22:24

A 3 year contract is always a good solution unless you are Ogier. M-Sport will never give him a good car. Let alone DMACKS in their first years... Toyota will struggle a lot at the beginning I guess but at least Tanak will drive with a bit cleaner mind.

Look at what a longterm contract has done to Paddon and Meeke. Even if Toyota is a very big question mark with a lot of doubts around their performances I think it would be definitely good for Tanak considering the options he has.

If anyone is offering Tanak a three-year contract then he should rip their arm off and take it. But is there any source saying that's what he's being offered - or just speculation? Seems that Toyota want to demonstrate pace to try and lure a VW driver for 2018 and beyond. So throwing out long-term contracts now might not be in their plans. And if they were going to give one to any guy it might be Lappi for development.

Would Meeke have got a three-year deal if Toyota weren't interested in him too? I'm not sure he would. Question is does Tanak have that same leverage? I'm not sure he does?

AL14

24th August 2016, 22:36

If anyone is offering Tanak a three-year contract then he should rip their arm off and take it. But is there any source saying that's what he's being offered - or just speculation? Seems that Toyota want to demonstrate pace to try and lure a VW driver for 2018 and beyond. So throwing out long-term contracts now might not be in their plans. And if they were going to give one to any guy it might be Lappi for development.

Would Meeke have got a three-year deal if Toyota weren't interested in him too? I'm not sure he would. Question is does Tanak have that same leverage? I'm not sure he does?

I don't have any source. Actually I don't know why I thought it was a 3 years contract, maybe I recalled a previous post from someone who said the same. So I'm sorry I should have checked better.

But since we are speculating... Me too I think he has not the same leverage, but I do think it would not be fantasy if they offered him such contract. They are risking to start the championship with Lappi-Hanninen as lineup. You will hardly convince any VW driver in future with such lineup.

EstWRC

24th August 2016, 23:45

Tänak wont go if its only a 1 year contract, it would make sense if it would be Hyundai, VW or Citroen because their cars are known to be fast but Toyota is still unknown and he needs a more secure contract.

And about Hyundai and Tänak, i can say that there is also fire.

BicioWrc

25th August 2016, 07:24

If rumors are all in right direction, situation seem quite clear: with Neuville that will be key point of the market; if he will go really to citroen Ott will potencially have 2 open doors (3 with m-sport)
i'm also agree that duration of contract will have big influence on his decision. Toyota will be for sure a nice challenge with possibility to grow up the team around him and surely will give him long contract; also hyundai too could decide to give him atleast 2 years contract, in this case will be not easy to decide which option catch.
As big fan of Ott hope he will take the right one.

pantealex

25th August 2016, 07:57

I don´t believe that Toyota will offer Ott 3-year deal..
If Yaris is fast there will be many fast drivers available for 2018 or 2019

BicioWrc

25th August 2016, 08:41

the rumor was 2+1 (i suppose team option for third year) sound logic if their believe in his potential

SubaruNorway

25th August 2016, 22:26

Stumbled across this, so they use both the farm and this next to the main road still? Looked quite empty during Rally Finland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6Xs2nUaw7E

26th August 2016, 07:09

Stumbled across this, so they use both the farm and this next to the main road still? Looked quite empty during Rally Finland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6Xs2nUaw7E

No! Only farm. The new building is a kindergarten nowadays...

pantealex

26th August 2016, 08:55

No! Only farm. The new building is a kindergarten nowadays...

and kindergartens are empty in weekends ;)

EstWRC

26th August 2016, 09:19

yesterday in portugal https://twitter.com/eWRCresults/status/768959159463190529

pantealex

31st August 2016, 12:57

http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-9133972

Tommi confirms that only 2 cars in Monte-Carlo, after that maybe more.
Admits that has talked with Neuville.
Same as before for Hänninen and Lappi.

EstWRC

31st August 2016, 16:30

hmmm...nothing new really besides that Tänak and Suninen arent mentioned anymore but that doesnt mean much ;)

leighton323

6th September 2016, 03:05

Kalle Rovanpera has tested the Toyota WRC 2017 Car

http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/wrc/10731-15-year-old-tests-toyota-s-2017-world-rally-car

Hartusvuori

6th September 2016, 06:46

Kalle Rovanpera has tested the Toyota WRC 2017 Car

http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/wrc/10731-15-year-old-tests-toyota-s-2017-world-rally-car

He tested the car a month ago.

In Latvian championship Rovanperä has taken four wins out of five, once he was 2nd.

MTV is not a newspaper, it's a broadcast media.

Otherwise nice article.

Allez Andruet

19th September 2016, 10:00

Now it's official: Hänninen and Lappi for Toyota in 2017 - full season for both!

Here it is (in Finnish though):
http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-9176929

Allez Andruet

19th September 2016, 10:07

According to the article (written by well-informed Finn Miika Wuorela), third driver will be named at a later stage, but the two driving full season will be Hänninen and Lappi. Official announcement due in Paris motorshow on Sep 28.

I have to say, I quite like the line-up. Hänninen gets his chance to drive a full WRC season (which he definitely deserves) and you never know just how fast Lappi will/can be. Now it's all up to the car itself...

Mirek

19th September 2016, 10:12

Although I really like Juho I think that this line-up is at best very risky.

EstWRC

19th September 2016, 10:39

Andre Oliveira

19th September 2016, 10:52

So happy with Juho. He deserve it.

Btw, Lappi will try WRC2 title yet ;) with non Skoda

COD

19th September 2016, 11:35

not a surprise at all this line-up...the interesting thing is who will be in the third car, is Ostberg's career now finished or will he be saved with the third car either from Toyota or M-sport? It maybe also Suninen or Tidemand.

A bit interim solution. Couldn't get any to name, so safe Hänninen and young gun Lappi. Lappi a good choise.

Third will probably be Arai, he has been more impressive of the two Japanese in Toyota program

rallyfiend

19th September 2016, 11:40

sete

19th September 2016, 11:41

Does it means that Tanak is staying with M-sport?
I am also happy about Juho

Allez Andruet

19th September 2016, 12:22

Two Finns in a Finnish-run team is too conservative, boring and not a great outcome for the Championship. These two are hardly going to present an energised and personality-led boost to the WRC...
Yeah, too bad they both got their big chance by purely being good drivers... such a shame:p

Lappi is fair enough, but Hanninen has had his chances and is not the 'future' of the WRC, he's not even the 'now' of the WRC....
Well, six starts with Hyundai and four (or actually three worth a mention) with Ford. One can easily argue, that it's not exactly a great deal of chances for 2010 IRC, 2011 SWRC and 2012 ERC champion... But hey, now he's got his chance - no more speculation about that is needed after 2017 :)

Allez Andruet

19th September 2016, 12:33

http://http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-9177081

More from Mäkinen...

- testing on asphalt has NOT been started yet - but will be during September.

- the plan was to start testing on snow in early 2016, but the transmission was delayed and therefore no testing has been done on snowy surface.

- Tommi wants to make the car "attractive" to top-name drivers during 2017 - Tommi says the team wants to be on podium asap in 2017, but admits the year will be spent more or less on learning and developing the car further.

- the cars have now been tested for more than 6000 kms on gravel.

Oliverk

19th September 2016, 13:19

stefanvv

19th September 2016, 13:21

Although I really like Juho I think that this line-up is at best very risky.

Agree. No doubt very fast drivers, but equally error prone.

Nelly

19th September 2016, 13:38

Ostberg in the 3rd seat. To drive around and finish 10th

pantealex

19th September 2016, 15:38

Fast Eddie WRC

19th September 2016, 15:59

Ostberg in the 3rd seat. To drive around and finish 10th

If there are 15 new WRC cars that will do... plus he'll find the car's problems if anyone can. ;)

cali

19th September 2016, 17:07

If there are 15 new WRC cars that will do... plus he'll find the car's problems if anyone can. ;)
Even if the car does not have any problems ;)

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

Rally Talent

19th September 2016, 18:06

The same could have been said about Meeke a couple years back. One of the root causes behind Hänninen's problems in his first WRC entries was that he had little time to accommodate himself with the car and had very little chance to build the car to suit his driving preferences. When he was driving for Skoda for many years he had the chance to build the car to work for him. We all know well that Citroen has done this same with French drivers in the past. Even though there are some really talented young drivers in the series performing really well at times, experience counts when podium placements are shared. I think it's too early to judge any driver, particularly when the car is still under development. Time will tell. I'd really like to see Tidemand driving for Toyota in the 3rd car, however.

Hanninen has had his chances and is not the 'future' of the WRC, he's not even the 'now' of the WRC....

Simmi

19th September 2016, 18:57

No issues for me regarding the lineup. The most risky strategy for Toyota would be to employ slower guys who can't extract the performance from the car.

It's clear and now Tommi has confirmed they are essentially trying to lure a big fish for 2018. So if they can show the car is quick and add a year of development then Toyota become a more attractive package for one of the VW guys.

Lappi/Tanak would have been more exciting with Hanninen in the third car but nevermind. Big question for me is how many rounds will that third car do?

Fast Eddie WRC

19th September 2016, 19:25

Two cars entry for Toyota confirmed for Monte-Carlo.

Rally Power

19th September 2016, 20:09

It seems a wise choice. Why bother to spend millions on a top driver salary if the car and the team are making their first steps?

Besides having a great future ahead of him, Lappi is the right guy to test the car limits at each rally, while Haninen has surely the ability to finish and pick points for the team.

Above all, Makinen is showing a sensible, even humble, approach to the series. Quite different from the Teutonic arrogance we’re used to.

Rally Power

19th September 2016, 20:11

No doubt very fast drivers, but equally error prone.

Stefanvv, take a look at Lappi’s record this year. You’ll see that his only driving mistake was in Sweden (still he finished 3rd). In Italy he had a tech problem (suspension failure) and in Poland he hit the same stone that took Tanak’s victory away, finishing 3rd in WRC2. He dominated in Finland and in Germany. It’s a bit unfair to keep saying he’s still an error prone driver.

OldF

19th September 2016, 20:25

More ”news”.

PAAVO / PanteAlex‏@PanteAlex (https://twitter.com/PanteAlex)
PAAVO / PanteAlex Retweeted Miiro Koivula
And @TGR_WRC (https://twitter.com/TGR_WRC) Boss Tommi denies " we don't have any deals with 2017 drivers" But admits that team will be at @MondialAuto (https://twitter.com/MondialAuto) Paris
PAAVO / PanteAlex added,

Miiro Koivula @MiiroKoivula
#ralli Pari sanaa Toyotan kuskisopimuksista itseltään tallipäällikkö Tommi Mäkiseltä, ihan miehen omalla suulla => http://urheiluuutiset.com/tommi-makinen-meilla-ei-ole-viela-kuljettajasopimuksia/
9:30 PM - 19 Sep 2016

Google translation from urheiluuutiset

Tommi Mäkinen
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Furheiluuutiset.com%2Ftommi-makinen-meilla-ei-ole-viela-kuljettajasopimuksia%2F&edit-text=

Esapekka Lappi
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Furheiluuutiset.com%2Flappi-toyota-sopimuksesta-mulla-ei-kylla-ole-tietoa%2F&edit-text=

Fast Eddie WRC

19th September 2016, 21:15

More information from Tommi Mäkinen today on @TGR_WRC - this time via @MiiroKoivula

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsvHxAbWEAAlxTM.jpg:large

Simmi

19th September 2016, 21:36

More information from Tommi Mäkinen today on @TGR_WRC - this time via @MiiroKoivula

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsvHxAbWEAAlxTM.jpg:large

A big partner/title sponsor would be very cool for the team. Not enough of these companies in rallying.

stefanvv

19th September 2016, 22:40

Stefanvv, take a look at Lappi’s record this year. You’ll see that his only driving mistake was in Sweden (still he finished 3rd). In Italy he had a tech problem (suspension failure) and in Poland he hit the same stone that took Tanak’s victory away, finishing 3rd in WRC2. He dominated in Finland and in Germany. It’s a bit unfair to keep saying he’s still an error prone driver.

I'm aware of his record this year, and admit it is quite positive... but he is far from being a complete driver. For me 2 almost identical drivers in 1 team is risky, that's all. Either they can win a lot, or lose a lot if pursuit podiums next year.

Simmi

19th September 2016, 22:59

I'm aware of his record this year, and admit it is quite positive... but he is far from being a complete driver.

He's 25 years old with zero starts in a WRC car. How is he supposed to be a complete driver at this point in his career?

I think Lappi will be allowed to go and learn the rallies without pressure. And when he's comfortable the speed will come. Hanninen is Tommi's guy and I think he will be asked to play more of a team game at times. Complete the rallies, get information etc.

I'm just quiet surprised that Juho has not done any events this year, even at national R5 level to get back into the swing of competition, gel with a new co-driver etc.

Grundo Farb

20th September 2016, 05:03

The driver line-up smacks of the last two unattached singles in a bar looking at each other just before closing time saying "how about it?"

Hobson's choice is another description. Google that one...

tommeke_B

20th September 2016, 08:17

Am I the only one who doesn't understand why they would pick Lappi in stead of Suninen? IMO Suninen is performing better with far less experience than Lappi.

liposh

20th September 2016, 08:23

Lappi is much more complex driver with much more experience. He is fast on all surfaces. Suninen is young with great skills and perspective so his time will definitelly come.

pantealex

20th September 2016, 08:40

Am I the only one who doesn't understand why they would pick Lappi in stead of Suninen? IMO Suninen is performing better with far less experience than Lappi.

What IF: Tommi is only offering part year deal, not full season?
Suninen says NO, he wants full season, Lappi takes part year deal.

It´s possible that they don´t give any drivers name next Wednesday or just Juho who is free agent.

Hartusvuori

20th September 2016, 09:18

Am I the only one who doesn't understand why they would pick Lappi in stead of Suninen? IMO Suninen is performing better with far less experience than Lappi.

Maybe Suninen doesn't want to go with Tommi?

MM WRC

20th September 2016, 14:37

Suninen says NO, he wants full season, Lappi takes part year deal.
I have heard Lappi and Hänninen will drive the whole season and there could possibly be a third car with a part-season programme.

rogef

20th September 2016, 20:44

Today Tests Yaris wrc!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsai39eVPYE

stefanvv

20th September 2016, 21:03

Today Tests Yaris wrc!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsai39eVPYE

Did the uploader had too much toYota Yaris for breakfast?

rogef

20th September 2016, 21:41

Did the uploader had too much toYota Yaris for breakfast?

What do you mean?

Thousandlakes

20th September 2016, 23:06

Start to look little better. Hänninen pushing little harder in this video. Nice sound and banging

stefanvv

20th September 2016, 23:13

What do you mean?

the video title is a bit odd: "Juho Hänninen and new toyota yaris wrc flyes and slydes"

RallySport Mag

21st September 2016, 05:00

Martin Holmes has reported the apparent signing of Lappi and Hanninen at Toyota in 2017.

http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/wrc/10783-toyota-select-lappi-and-hanninen-for-2017-wrc-program

rogef

21st September 2016, 09:22

the video title is a bit odd: "Juho Hänninen and new toyota yaris wrc flyes and slydes"

Yes, I agree. But I did not upload the video. Just found it on youtube and I shared the link.

Hug

COD

21st September 2016, 09:34

Maybe Suninen doesn't want to go with Tommi?

His manager is Mäkinen's ex-manager. So either Jouhki knows something that makes him not want to put Suninen to Toyota or Mäkinen thinks it is too early for Suninen. I still think Suninen needs more experience

Simmi

21st September 2016, 13:38

His manager is Mäkinen's ex-manager. So either Jouhki knows something that makes him not want to put Suninen to Toyota or Mäkinen thinks it is too early for Suninen. I still think Suninen needs more experience

When Jouhki put forward his preferred options for Suninen a few months ago I think Toyota was about third, behind Citroen and Hyundai.

AndyRAC

21st September 2016, 18:59

Entirely predictable...

Fast Eddie WRC

21st September 2016, 19:43

dodge33cymru

22nd September 2016, 10:05

So Evans, Breen, Lefebvre and Bouffier (or Chardonnet)?

Simmi

22nd September 2016, 10:12

Tommi Mäkinen describes driver line-up rumours as “completely untrue”...

'Juho and Esapekka belong to that group, and there are also Teemu Suninen Thierry Neuville , some from the British Isles and a couple of friends from the French side, Mäkinen lists.'

http://www.mtv.fi/sport/ralli/uutinen/artikkeli/tommi-makinen-ymmallaan-huhuista-taysin-fiktiota/6084188

This is pretty interesting. The strong rumours have always been Lappi/Hanninen - so for Tommi to come out and say it's "completely untrue" would seem to imply at least one of those drivers won't be with the team next year. Otherwise you'd just say "nothing is confirmed yet". Or say nothing at all.

GravelBen

22nd September 2016, 10:49

This is pretty interesting. The strong rumours have always been Lappi/Hanninen - so for Tommi to come out and say it's "completely untrue" would seem to imply at least one of those drivers won't be with the team next year. Otherwise you'd just say "nothing is confirmed yet". Or say nothing at all.

I thought he was just saying its completely untrue that its all decided and contracts are signed, and confirmed that those two drivers are among the options.

Simmi

22nd September 2016, 11:18

I thought he was just saying its completely untrue that its all decided and contracts are signed, and confirmed that those two drivers are among the options.

Yeah you're right. Cheers. Does help to read the piece rather summaries.

mousti

29th September 2016, 12:18

Microsoft will be Toyota's main partner!

jiipee64

29th September 2016, 12:29

http://toyotagazooracing.com/release/2016/wrc/0929-01.html

tomhlord

29th September 2016, 12:33

DMG, Panasonic, Toyota and Microsoft. Very nice to see big business back the WRC.

Rally Power

29th September 2016, 14:29

Using the WRC program to present this partnership with Microsoft it’s a clear sign of Toyota’s commitment. Hope all the skeptics starts to take it more seriously.

GigiGalliNo1

29th September 2016, 14:51

I question what is Microsoft

Someone answered that it gives the car windows

I don't like the livery, and I hope they won't have to reboot the car all the time!

Control + Alt + Delete

EstWRC

29th September 2016, 15:03

what? no photos in actual thread? i will fix it

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CthaarxWEAAY1tP.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CthUFCPWIAEx1tj.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CthUFCPWcAAL2Xh.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CthT_uoXYAAK3DV.jpg

29th September 2016, 15:50

The car looks hideous, but I hope it is good.

Fast Eddie WRC

29th September 2016, 15:51

From above
http://toyotagazooracing.com/pages/contents/en/assets/images/release/2016/wrc/0929-01/wrc_160929_2_s.jpg

Apart from the 'Yaris' on the grill and the small side panel there isnt much advertising for Toyota on the livery...

29th September 2016, 16:03

DMG, Panasonic, Toyota and Microsoft. Very nice to see big business back the WRC.

Didn't Microsoft buy Nokia? Finnish connection..

Simmi

29th September 2016, 19:38

DMG, Panasonic, Toyota and Microsoft. Very nice to see big business back the WRC.

Couldn't agree more. Fantastic to see proper companies getting involved and hopefully that will start to make the other teams more attractive to prospective partners. Much better than the cars simply being billboards for the manufacturer or Emirate tourist boards.

stefanvv

29th September 2016, 19:43

Couldn't agree more. Fantastic to see proper companies getting involved and hopefully that will start to make the other teams more attractive to prospective partners. Much better than the cars simply being billboards for the manufacturer or Emirate tourist boards.

Red Bull, Shell, well M-Sport aren't manufacturers anyway.

Simmi

29th September 2016, 20:19

Red Bull, Shell, well M-Sport aren't manufacturers anyway.

Yep well done for naming two sponsors. Doesn't mean the sport is overflowing with them...

stefanvv

29th September 2016, 20:22

Yep well done for naming two sponsors. Doesn't mean the sport is overflowing with them...

Do You see overflowing ones on the Yaris?

Simmi

29th September 2016, 20:35

Do You see overflowing ones on the Yaris?

I see three quality sponsors entering the sport. DMG Mori are the title sponsor of Porsche in the WEC let's not forget.

Are you just posting to be argumentative? I don't understand what you're getting at.

stefanvv

29th September 2016, 20:40

I see three quality sponsors entering the sport. DMG Mori are the title sponsor of Porsche in the WEC let's not forget.

Are you just posting to be argumentative? I don't understand what you're getting at.

Sorry if I sound intrusive. For me this is overflowing:
http://www.mad4wheels.com/webpics/hires/00002769%20-%201997%20Toyota%20Celica%20WRC/1997_Toyota_Celica_WRC_003_3147.jpg

I know who DMG sponsor in WEC, but hardly can see them on the Yaris. And Microsoft look like a small software company being a partner, but not some major sponsor.

Rallyper

29th September 2016, 20:56

KWH Pipe making wastewater cleaning systems. Bought one from them five years ago for about 30000 Euros. Just because they sponsored Toyota. (Small lie but still)

N.O.T

29th September 2016, 21:02

Sorry if I sound intrusive. For me this is overflowing:
http://www.mad4wheels.com/webpics/hires/00002769%20-%201997%20Toyota%20Celica%20WRC/1997_Toyota_Celica_WRC_003_3147.jpg

I know who DMG sponsor in WEC, but hardly can see them on the Yaris. And Microsoft look like a small software company being a partner, but not some major sponsor.

well kid the era where motorsports was the king when it came to marketing is over, nowadays people prefer to stay home and spend time on their playstations.

To expect you are going to see these images again means you live in star trek land and should not bother with reality.

stefanvv

29th September 2016, 21:07

You still don't read carefully do You?
http://www.volkswagen-motorsport.com/fileadmin/user_upload/CMP/WRC/saison_2016/teaserbilder/906x343_vw-20160118-1298.jpg

How about this for modern times?

EightGear

29th September 2016, 21:16

Red Bull is basically sponsoring every moving vehicle in motorsport...

stefanvv

29th September 2016, 21:30

Like Marlboro & Camel @ the 80's & 90's. Is it overflowing? Yes it is, I rest my case.

Fast Eddie WRC

29th September 2016, 21:48

Yes good sponsors, but surely they want to advertise the Toyota name more, especially as they are 'new' to the WRC ?

Even the Champions cars still have a large VW logo on them...

Simmi

29th September 2016, 22:18

Like Marlboro & Camel @ the 80's & 90's. Is it overflowing? Yes it is, I rest my case.

Okay so I see now you are talking about a complete sponsor takeover of the livery. Toyota still retained their corporate colours on the car. But just because the car isn't branded up like Windows 10 doesn't mean it isn't a significant sponsorship. Just like the Mercedes in F1 retains the Silver Arrows look of Mercedes, but it's sponsorship deals are worth more than most rally partnerships combined.

Anyway this is just the show car and I'm sure it will look different in many ways come January.

Jarek Z

29th September 2016, 22:25

The car looks hideous, but I hope it is good.

I agree, it is truly awful.

stefanvv

29th September 2016, 22:27

Okay so I see now you are talking about a complete sponsor takeover of the livery. Toyota still retained their corporate colours on the car. But just because the car isn't branded up like Windows 10 doesn't mean it isn't a significant sponsorship. Just like the Mercedes in F1 retains the Silver Arrows look of Mercedes, but it's sponsorship deals are worth more than most rally partnerships combined.

Anyway this is just the show car and I'm sure it will look different in many ways come January.

It's ok, just don't say it is overflowing, because it actually isn't. Not that I'm not happy with this endeavor, but just lets face the reality, shall we?

Simmi

29th September 2016, 22:38

It's ok, just don't say it is overflowing, because it actually isn't. Not that I'm not happy with this endeavor, but just lets face the reality, shall we?

I think the language barrier is getting in the way to be honest. All I was trying to say was that it's good to see new sponsors in the sport. Not sure why you couldn't let that stand.

stefanvv

29th September 2016, 22:53

I think the language barrier is getting in the way to be honest. All I was trying to say was that it's good to see new sponsors in the sport. Not sure why you couldn't let that stand.

Of course it is good. It is some start if You want to call it. But it is hardly a bigger deal than Shell & Castrol logos on current cars. That's all I'm saying.

tomhlord

30th September 2016, 11:12

The world of sponsorship has changed. Red Bull is an exception to the rule. In this day and age, it is all about 'strategic partnerships' and this is applying to all categories currently, not just WRC.

Also, the lack of Toyota branding is at first strange, until you see the WEC livery too. For Toyota in WEC, the funding comes from the R&D department, not the marketing team. Perhaps this is true of Gazzo Toyota in WRC?

tomhlord

30th September 2016, 11:13

Didn't Microsoft buy Nokia? Finnish connection..

Nope. They bought the phone division, which they have not closed. Nokia still exist separately.

Rally Hokkaido

30th September 2016, 13:36

From above

Apart from the 'Yaris' on the grill and the small side panel there isnt much advertising for Toyota on the livery...

The car is painted in the factory Gazoo Racing livery. The decision makers obviously think that that is sufficient advertising for Toyota fans (whom I believe they are aiming to connect with much more than the general public).

GigiGalliNo1

30th September 2016, 16:16

How is Red Bull an acceptation? If they're sponsoring and plastering their brand all over a car?!

Allez Andruet

17th October 2016, 11:35

Nice story about Toyota team written by giant Finnish newspaper Helsingin Sanomat (in Finnish):

http://www.hs.fi/urheilu/a1476589796186

The story includes the first published pictures inside the workshop located in Puuppola in central Finland and some actual news as well:

According to Mäkinen...

- one of the drivers will be officially annouced "soon"

- contrary to earlier reports, the third car will debut in Corsica in April (not in Sweden as reported previously)

- the car and the team (presumably with the exception of the driver annouced earlier) will be revealed in Helsinki on December 13.

- four Yaris WRC's has been built so far

- Toyota wants to have a Japanese driver, but that will not happen anytime soon (Tommi says Hiroki Arai and Takamoto Katsuta are "not ready")

The writer of the story was allowed to take pictures of the car, but only from the side - it was forbidden to take any pictures of the front and rear of the car.

N.O.T

17th October 2016, 11:38

How stupid can someone be that hangs in the OFFICIAL teams garage pictures of a rival manufacturer ?

Is this whole joke family business for real ? they are a disgrace to the sport.

Allez Andruet

17th October 2016, 11:43

How stupid can someone be that hangs in the OFFICIAL teams garage pictures of a rival manufacturer ?

Is this whole joke family business for real ? they are a disgrace to the sport.

"Disgrace to the sport" = having a picture of the ex-world champ team principal driving in the WRC?

And yes... Toyota re-entering the WRC is "family business" :p

I think the only joke in this topic is you and your pathetic "input".

Simmi

17th October 2016, 12:38

Round four for the third car isn't too bad. We should have the 15 'works' WRCs by Portugal all being well.

pantealex

17th October 2016, 14:22

Round four for the third car isn't too bad. We should have the 15 'works' WRCs by Portugal all being well.

Citroen will have their 3rd car at round 6 (Portugal), so Toyota is quicker..

Mirek

17th October 2016, 14:32

I expect Citroën to be quicker ;):cool:

AL14

17th October 2016, 14:36

How stupid can someone be that hangs in the OFFICIAL teams garage pictures of a rival manufacturer ?

Is this whole joke family business for real ? they are a disgrace to the sport.

It's called "ego", you should know it very well "dear leader".

17th October 2016, 15:11

The writer of the story was allowed to take pictures of the car, but only from the side - it was forbidden to take any pictures of the front and rear of the car.

Because it might break the camera lens?

Hänninen or Ostberg to be named first? I imagine Skoda might not want Lappi to be named with another manufacturer until the season is over.

AndyRAC

17th October 2016, 16:28

Toyota Team Finland......

Simmi

17th October 2016, 16:48

The more I think about it I will admit it's kind of strange having the Lancer photo up there - but okay it's not ultimately going to make or break the WRC programme.

Hartusvuori

17th October 2016, 16:50

Because it might break the camera lens?

It was explained that Japan had ordered no pictures from front or back, engine and some yet-to-be-homologated roll cage design.

Hartusvuori

17th October 2016, 16:55

The more I think about it I will admit it's kind of strange having the Lancer photo up there - but okay it's not ultimately going to make or break the WRC programme.

I remember reading early into the project how Mäkinen wanted to built up similar team philosophy what he experienced with Mitsubishi. Maybe the poster is up there to remind him and everyone else about that. Though, I hear you, it is weird when placed in current brand-protective time.

N.O.T

17th October 2016, 17:32

I remember reading early into the project how Mäkinen wanted to built up similar team philosophy what he experienced with Mitsubishi. Maybe the poster is up there to remind him and everyone else about that. Though, I hear you, it is weird when placed in current brand-protective time.

Then i suggest that Hanninen brings some posters from his skoda days since he won titles with them for some extra motivation.

Dog amateur team with a free fall to flop ahead.

Rallyper

17th October 2016, 19:25

Then i suggest that Hanninen brings some posters from his skoda days since he won titles with them for some extra motivation.

Dog amateur team with a free fall to flop ahead.

Hanninen isn´t the boss nor yet officially confirmed.

N.O.T

17th October 2016, 20:35

Hanninen isn´t the boss nor yet officially confirmed.

Makinen is not the Boss either. The boss is Toyota and that nobody is being unprofessional towards them to say the least.

Allez Andruet

17th October 2016, 20:48

Makinen is not the Boss either. The boss is Toyota and that nobody is being unprofessional towards them to say the least.

Who the **** you think you are? Seriously. Calling a four-time World Champ a "nobody"? Your input to any topic here is pathetic at best. You're nothing but a joke.

Grundo Farb

18th October 2016, 04:04

Who the **** you think you are? Seriously. Calling a four-time World Champ a "nobody"? Your input to any topic here is pathetic at best. You're nothing but a joke.

N.O.T is omnipotent. He has the power to type things and press "ENTER".

N.O.T is N.O.T. He has an acerbic way of saying things sometimes which depending on your viewpoint can be close to the truth. In this case, while I don't agree with his choice of words, I agree that Toyoda is the boss.

Also, my interpretation of him being a nobody is in relation to Makinen not being exactly renowned as a team manager, car builder or team principle. He drove a car some time ago and was successful but that doesn't make him instantly a success in this role. The jury is still out.

Allez Andruet

18th October 2016, 05:57

Also, my interpretation of him being a nobody is in relation to Makinen not being exactly renowned as a team manager, car builder or team principle. He drove a car some time ago and was successful but that doesn't make him instantly a success in this role. The jury is still out.
I'm not going to waste any more valuable space for that pathetic loser, but as for Mäkinen, he did have somewhat successful run as a team manager/car-builder with N/R4 Subaru's after ending his hall-of-fame-career at the end of 2003.

So as he's definitely not a renowed WRC team principle (yet), it's not like this would be something completely new for him. Usually companies as big as Toyota don't give their brand and project worth millions to some novice (i.e. without making sure beforehand that this person X has the ability to deal with assignment). Let's wait and see...