[WRC] News & rumours (part III)

[N.O.T]

Teemu/Rallirinki.net ‏@HartusvuoriWRC
Ogier win in #RallyDeutschland means that stat for the most #WRC wins by nations goes to France now. France 175, Finland 174.

oooooooooooooooohhhh that hurts man... show some mercy please.

But on the postitive side we can gather the tears of all the finnish kids from all these years and send them to Africa to solve the draught problem...

[stefanvv]

Teemu/Rallirinki.net ‏@HartusvuoriWRC
Ogier win in #RallyDeutschland means that stat for the most #WRC wins by nations goes to France now. France 175, Finland 174.

how many drivers from each side are in this statistics?

[Rally Power]

This:
"Matton was the team principal of both Citroen’s World Rally Team and World Touring Car Championship teams, helping the teams to many of Citroen’s motorsport victories in recent years. As director of DS performance he will be looking to carry that success forward to the Formula E championship."

As Mirek said, probably Matton will be PSA motorsport manager, in charge of Peugeot, Citroen and DS sport activities.

Knowing that China it's vital for each one of the 3 makes, it can be possible that PSA will maintain their involvement in WRC.

They just need to throw away their useless Dakar program (with very little impact in China) and rebrand one of Citroen present activities, putting Peugeot back in WRC or in WTCC (that would be a premier, I suppose).

[Rallyper]

how many drivers from each side are in this statistics?

Winners nationality since 1979 between the two countries: 16-12 (France - Finland)

[N.O.T]

Winners nationality since 1979 between the two countries: 16-12 (France - Finland)

stop twisting the knife to your neighbors wound you Swedish heartless man...

[shaitan]

As Mirek said, probably Matton will be PSA motorsport manager, in charge of Peugeot, Citroen and DS sport activities.

Knowing that China it's vital for each one of the 3 makes, it can be possible that PSA will maintain their involvement in WRC.

They just need to throw away their useless Dakar program (with very little impact in China) and rebrand one of Citroen present activities, putting Peugeot back in WRC or in WTCC (that would be a premier, I suppose).

You are totally wrong about Dakar race in China media side.
The only motor sport have been broadcast(CCTV5, the largest sport TV program in China) in china every year is Dakar, and this has been lasted for many years only because many Chinese car makers involved in Dakar.

For most people they have no idea about WRC/WTCC whatever this kind of touring car race.

[Rallyper]

stop twisting the knife to your neighbors wound you Swedish heartless man...

First I was confident in there where many more finns than french winners, but looking at statistics made me remember what I forgot during all years. And I have been a fan since little kid in the early 60´s...

[Livewireshock]

If it is a sealed surface then I hope this isn't anything to go by: https://youtu.be/wcJLo_owefo Anyone know if that is a good representation of the rally as a whole?

Gravel isn't boring by it's very nature, in fact the other week I watch the BBC coverage of China Rally 1999 on youtube (and posted it a few pages back on this thread) and I quite liked it. The problems at the time seemed to be about the organisation rather than the stages but I remember Auriol and I think Burns saying at the end of the event it wasn't that bad a rally. Of course it was replaced for 2000...

It would be a shame to lose a tarmac round but I sincerely hope the Italian round returns to tarmac on the mainland - the 1000 Miglia stages around Brescia would be amazing, if a little too similar to the Monte Carlo stages, although Monte Carlo seems to be less alpine based than when I watched it as a kid in the early 2000s.

Also, can someone explain to me the logistical issue with having a gravel car and a tarmac car when the same chassis is used for both surfaces for Rallye Catalunya? If they can convert the setup overnight why can't a car be setup for a tarmac flyaway/island round and converted for the next time it's used on on a flyaway gravel event?
That video is from the APRC round at Longyou, in Zhejiang province, west of Shanghai. It is a mixed surface event and is on a sealed surface through some villages and near the start and finish off this stage. I filmed the video, so I know exactly where it was taken. That is why the car has a gravel setup. Beijing round is a pure tarmac round.

Sent from my Tab2A7-10F using Tapatalk

[stefanvv]

Winners nationality since 1979 between the two countries: 16-12 (France - Finland)

So that means Finns have average more victories "per head". Considering Loeb has sooooo great many victories and Ogier is quickly catching up, this means many French drivers have just a victory or 2, mostly likely Corsica in the past, when no serious factory presence has been invested.

[Jasper]

Any rumours in Germany about the presence on the 2016 calendar?

[Hartusvuori]

Winners nationality since 1979 between the two countries: 16-12 (France - Finland)

This stat goes since 1973. And it's 14 Finns and 18 French.

http://www.juwra.com/driver_wins_by_nationalities.html

[jbmarcus21]

Grönholm debuts new 2017 spec Polo Wrc http://planetemarcus.com/marcus-gronholm-au-boulot-sur-la-nouvelle-vw-2017/

[giu canbera]

is there any footage of the Toyota Mirai Hydrogen car showed during this last event?

[Simmi]

is there any footage of the Toyota Mirai Hydrogen car showed during this last event?

No one could hear it coming in time to get the video camera out. Dangerous thing to have on the rally stages really.

[Rally Power]

You are totally wrong about Dakar race in China media side.
The only motor sport have been broadcast(CCTV5, the largest sport TV program in China) in china every year is Dakar, and this has been lasted for many years only because many Chinese car makers involved in Dakar.
For most people they have no idea about WRC/WTCC whatever this kind of touring car race.

It doesn't surprise that WRC get's unnoticed in China, but it's strange to heard the same about WTCC. Wasn't Ma the first Chinese to get a victory in a FIA world championship event? What about Formula E, Team China Racing was implicated in Piquet's title, that should create some interest in local motorsport fans...

Either way, Peugeot Dakar program's still useless: they went wrong choosing 2wd. I'm hoping for another failure in 2016 edition in order to get them back to WRC!

[itix]

It doesn't surprise that WRC get's unnoticed in China, but it's strange to heard the same about WTCC. Wasn't Ma the first Chinese to get a victory in a FIA world championship event? What about Formula E, Team China Racing was implicated in Piquet's title, that should create some interest in local motorsport fans...

Either way, Peugeot Dakar program's still useless: they went wrong choosing 2wd. I'm hoping for another failure in 2016 edition in order to get them back to WRC!

I'm kind of hoping the same... I hope their RX efforts end up in the dust too. If they manage to build a -17 regs 208 that is equally pretty to the R5 that would be so awesome!

[shaitan]

It doesn't surprise that WRC get's unnoticed in China, but it's strange to heard the same about WTCC. Wasn't Ma the first Chinese to get a victory in a FIA world championship event? What about Formula E, Team China Racing was implicated in Piquet's title, that should create some interest in local motorsport fans...

Either way, Peugeot Dakar program's still useless: they went wrong choosing 2wd. I'm hoping for another failure in 2016 edition in order to get them back to WRC!

For most people racing is just a kind of fashion, that is the reason why only F1 race was familiar with the public.

In past few years Dongfeng-Citroen bring huge effort to marketing side about their WRC/WTCC programs(including Sebatien Loeb and Qinghua Ma). The funny thing is that they sell their car very well not because they have brilliant motor sports effort, it is just because people think Citroen is an European brand, like 'God-car' VW's in China.

The main reason Dongfeng-Citroen have a good reputation because they were second car makers in Chinese modern car history back in 1990s, maybe the millstone was the new Dongfeng-Citroen Fukang AX/ZX/988(Coming from Citroen 1990 ZX model) when they introduced in 1997~1998.

Like old time A1GP, no one care about Formula E, things could not be getting better even if we have a local round world rally event.

[Jack4688`]

If VW and Citroen are doing so well there then why is it so important to go to China? Sure it could help them immeasurably on top of what they already do but isn't increasing sales in a struggling market important? By struggling I mean where the brand in particular has a bad reputation, not somewhere where everybody is in poverty and no one is buying cars.

Don't get me wrong I'm not poo-pooing the idea of going to China. Like the 1999 event it could be an interesting rally, but why this insistence of "we sell 10 billion cars a year in China, therefore we must compete there to increase those sales further". If the Chinese aren't interested in WTCC what have Citroen got out of it? I thought that was a big reason for them going to WTCC and why they used the C-Elysee (correct me if I'm wrong but that's sold in China right?).

With F1 and especially WTCC it seems like the sports need China more than China wants them.

[semsem]

Jack4688 is right. Does China need the WRC? Exactly the point of the feature story in MotorsportMonday.com two weeks ago (edition 126)!

[Eli]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/nachrichten/artikel/d/2015/08/26/promoter-zwei-mal-mittelmeer-ist-nicht-global/
looks like Corica will get the can next year, i truely hope they take away sardegna and bring it back to sanremo

[AL14]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/nachrichten/artikel/d/2015/08/26/promoter-zwei-mal-mittelmeer-ist-nicht-global/
looks like Corica will get the can next year, i truely hope they take away sardegna and bring it back to sanremo

Watching at rally sanremo in national championship it seems to go back in time when people died during rallys. I don't think it is a good idea in a safety point of view.

[Zeakiwi]

Are there any gravel roads left in Italy like the 1994 San Remo?
https://youtu.be/yG2jwYFgcfQ

Weren't there some suicide spectators on Sardinia too, standing in bad places?

[EstWRC]

http://www.maxrally.com/2015/08/26/neuville-ive-got-nothing-to-prove

pretty harsh words from team manager but i have to agree. He hasn't been the good old fast Neuville since Sweden and in Germany again he was beaten by Sordo.

[Rally Power]

Jack4688 is right. Does China need the WRC? Exactly the point of the feature story in MotorsportMonday.com two weeks ago (edition 126)!

You're both right and Martin Holmes has put it very clearly: more than the commercial or sport issues, the pressure to go to China came from the credibility need felt by the promoter and the FIA to support the globalized status of WRC.

Just hope that they manage to get a proper rally...

[AL14]

http://www.maxrally.com/2015/08/26/neuville-ive-got-nothing-to-prove

pretty harsh words from team manager but i have to agree. He hasn't been the good old fast Neuville since Sweden and in Germany again he was beaten by Sordo.

Agree. He keeps complaining about the car. He could have a point but it doesn't mean he should not fight anymore.

[Jasper]

Agree. He keeps complaining about the car. He could have a point but it doesn't mean he should not fight anymore.


Estwrc: Sordo is a specialist on tarmac. It would be strange when he doesn't keep up with Neuville in Germany. Look at the championship results and you will see who's doing the best job in the Hyundai.
In 2013 (germany) they both drove times in the area (or better) off the VW-boys. Since they both started to drive with the Hyundai...

I think Neuville tried really hard to beat the VW's. A couple of times he tried to hard and made mistakes (in sweden he was just lucky he didn't crash?). Now he's just thinking about the championship results and doesn't want to make stupid mistakes anymore. He's frustated because the promised new car doesn't come and the 'old' car isn't capable to compete with the VW's.

[Doon]

Agree. He keeps complaining about the car. He could have a point but it doesn't mean he should not fight anymore.

He does have a point though. Why roll the car into a ball every other rally just to prove he's still quick, when in reality he can only aim for 5th place if no one else makes mistakes. If that car is another duffer next year then Neuville must jump ship.

[Doon]

Estwrc: Sordo is a specialist on tarmac. It would be strange when he doesn't keep up with Neuville in Germany. Look at the championship results and you will see who's doing the best job in the Hyundai.
In 2013 (germany) they both drove times in the area (or better) off the VW-boys. Since they both started to drive with the Hyundai...

I think Neuville tried really hard to beat the VW's. A couple of times he tried to hard and made mistakes (in sweden he was just lucky he didn't crash?). Now he's just thinking about the championship results and doesn't want to make stupid mistakes anymore. He's frustated because the promised new car doesn't come and the 'old' car isn't capable to compete with the VW's.

In hindsight he probably should have stayed in a Fiesta or 2014. Wouldn't be surprised if he's in one in 2016 either, but I guess there isn't much change of Malcolm raising the £££.

[Grundo Farb]

I don't agree with the sentiment that if he doesn't think the car can win he shouldn't try as hard as he can. In 2011, Ogier was driving a Skoda S2000, he drove the absolute wheels off that thing at every opportunity. He was challenging the times of the WRC cars. It should not matter whether Neuville is driving a Hyundai, a Ford or whatever car, he is contracted to the manufacturer to drive as fast as he can. Besides, he has binned the car on a number of rallies this year - the power stage in Sardinia for example.

I think the team is frustrated that he isn't going as fast as he should/could be. That must be quite de-motivating for the team to then do everything it can to support him. The comment about Paddon is they see a positive progression, easy to build a team around a forward momentum.

[Jasper]

I don't agree with the sentiment that if he doesn't think the car can win he shouldn't try as hard as he can. In 2011, Ogier was driving a Skoda S2000, he drove the absolute wheels off that thing at every opportunity. He was challenging the times of the WRC cars. It should not matter whether Neuville is driving a Hyundai, a Ford or whatever car, he is contracted to the manufacturer to drive as fast as he can. Besides, he has binned the car on a number of rallies this year - the power stage in Sardinia for example.

I think the team is frustrated that he isn't going as fast as he should/could be. That must be quite de-motivating for the team to then do everything it can to support him. The comment about Paddon is they see a positive progression, easy to build a team around a forward momentum.


You can't compare the situation Ogier/Skoda, Neuville/Hyundai. The Hyundai simply doesn't work as it should be (if they want victories). And that's frustrating for Neuville (and the team).

[Grundo Farb]

Who says it doesn't work as it should be? How should it work? He is getting paid a lot of money to drive to the best of his ability.

So the mentality is to give up? What do you see Alonso and Button doing with a big pile of rubbish in F1. Still doing their best. The team demands the driver to do their best.

And of course you can compare them, if you give a professional driver a lawnmower, they should still try and drive the wheels off it.

[Jasper]

Who says it doesn't work as it should be? How should it work? He is getting paid a lot of money to drive to the best of his ability.

So the mentality is to give up? What do you see Alonso and Button doing with a big pile of rubbish in F1. Still doing their best. The team demands the driver to do their best.

And of course you can compare them, if you give a professional driver a lawnmower, they should still try and drive the wheels off it.


These days the drivers have to use their brains. We're not in the 90's anymore, manufactures want results. Look at Meeke, he always drives the wheels off, do you think we will see him again next year?

I hope the new car wil bring a positive vibe for the Hyundai team and all the Hyundai drivers!

F1 doesn't belong in the WRC area ;)!

[AL14]

He does have a point though. Why roll the car into a ball every other rally just to prove he's still quick, when in reality he can only aim for 5th place if no one else makes mistakes. If that car is another duffer next year then Neuville must jump ship.

It's not that he has to drive over the limit. Of course that would be a suicide. But as fast as he can yes. He should do it for himself and not only for the team that pay him.

But let's be honest. Do you believe him when he says he's slower because of that?

[HaCo]

Neuville is just making the best of the situation. Look at Germany, you really think he should have gone looking for Sordo? With an off as a result and hypothesizing a 4-5 position for Hyundai? How would he have been cirtisized if that would have happen? I love Meeke being able to almost follow the pace of VW with all his commitment, but what did it brought him so far, being kicked out of the team!?

If Hyundai, Citroen wants to win, they should make a better car and allow there drivers to progress. I think Ford has the car, just not the drivers.

If any, Mikkelsen or Ostberg need to be criticized. But both VW and Citroen look to be happy with both, and from my point of view they are showing less commitment than Neuville.

[AL14]

Neuville is just making the best of the situation. Look at Germany, you really think he should have gone looking for Sordo? With an off as a result and hypothesizing a 4-5 position for Hyundai? How would he have been cirtisized if that would have happen? I love Meeke being able to almost follow the pace of VW with all his commitment, but what did it brought him so far, being kicked out of the team!?

Germany is fine, his team manager was talking about his performances from Mexico to Finland though.


If Hyundai, Citroen wants to win, they should make a better car and allow there drivers to progress. I think Ford has the car, just not the drivers.

I think you are right here beyond doubts. But I think neither Ford has the car. It's just Malcom Wilson that puts into everybody the impression it is a winning car without actually winning (he is a genious, we must admit it).


If any, Mikkelsen or Ostberg need to be criticized. But both VW and Citroen look to be happy with both, and from my point of view they are showing less commitment than Neuville.

I don't understand you here. First you say that Neuville making the best of the situation without pushing like crazy is fine and then if Ostberg does the same you say he has less commitment. I think in the contrary that Ostberg is doing a better championship than Neuville, simply because we all expected more from Thierry than Mads.
Also I don't agree with your judgment on Mikkelsen, it is clear to me he is doing all he can to improve and have same pace of his teammates. He's not succeding but it is another story.

[GigiGalliNo1]

I say Ostberg should go back to M-Sport... oh and Meeke to VW... no wait M-Sport :D

[macebig]

http://www.touringcartimes.com/2015/08/27/sebastien-loeb-could-carry-on-in-the-wtcc-regardless-of-citroens-plans/
He is effectively killing Citroen World Rally Team...

[Simmi]

http://www.touringcartimes.com/2015/08/27/sebastien-loeb-could-carry-on-in-the-wtcc-regardless-of-citroens-plans/
He is effectively killing Citroen World Rally Team...

Disagree - he could end up saving it if he stays in WTCC running Citroens with his own team. NO ONE at Citroen is expecting him to come back to WRC full time. So this isn't really news.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Robert Kubica to skip Rally Australia for more WRC testing...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120512

[macebig]

Disagree - he could end up saving it if he stays in WTCC running Citroens with his own team. NO ONE at Citroen is expecting him to come back to WRC full time. So this isn't really news.

Alright,we agree that we disagree then.Citroen will stick with him no matter what.So,unless they miracously mount a title winning campaign in 2016 WRC expect them to focus on WTCC completely.

[Simmi]

Allright,we agree that we disagree then.Citroen will stick with him no matter what.So,unless they miracously mount a title winning campaign in 2016 WRC expect them to focus on WTCC completely.

No - they will make the decision on which championship to enter at the end of this year. 2016 performance will not be relevant. It's about the marketing value of the two championships. For me they can still win races/championships with a private outfit in WTCC, which is what Loeb Racing would provide.

[HaCo]

Sorry, wrong thread.

[Eli]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/nachrichten/artikel/d/2015/08/28/gemischte-erkenntnisse-aus-china/ the plot thickens for the inclusion of China Rally next season

[Simmi]

No point rushing the round into the series if it is not ready. Better perhaps to solidify the event for inclusion in 2017 when the new regs come out. That might give the promoter time to work on the teams to actually extend it out to a 14-round season, or kick out one of the events they stupidly appeared to hand early guarantees for next year - e.g. Sardinia.

I don't buy the issue about support classes and the rally field being an issue. I don't think anyone was expecting a 120-car entry in China. Australia recently announced a 27-car field for next month. Let's not pretend the Chinese round is a showcase for the fans on the roadside. It's about marketing and ticking boxes for the manufacturers.

[Eli]

mistake

[Eli]

No point rushing the round into the series if it is not ready. Better perhaps to solidify the event for inclusion in 2017 when the new regs come out. That might give the promoter time to work on the teams to actually extend it out to a 14-round season, or kick out one of the events they stupidly appeared to hand early guarantees for next year - e.g. Sardinia.


or perhaps Poland? honestly it's only there because of Kubica and once he'll leave so will the round...

[itix]

or perhaps Poland? honestly it's only there because of Kubica and once he'll leave so will the round...
He has a point there. We all saw what happened to Alsace as soon as Loeb was gone.

[AL14]

Mixed results for Chinese WRC candidate event

Higgins and Atkinson say that Rally Beijing Huairou has a lot of WRC potential but they both found motorbikes in the stage while they were at competitive speed.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120562

My opinion is: let's do it instead of Corsica but send someone with plenty of experience to help organization avoid such serious issues.

[EightGear]

At least it'a good to hear the stages are good and challenging (and not on gravel). But bikes on the stage are a big failure, unbelievable.

[AL14]

At least it'a good to hear the stages are good and challenging (and not on gravel). But bikes on the stage are a big failure, unbelievable.

I don't know if this is a common sentence in english too but in occasions like this we say:

"It would make you laugh if it didn't make you cry"

[itix]

I don't know if this is a common sentence in english too but in occasions like this we say:

"It would make you laugh if it didn't make you cry"
Well if they can make it happen without the bikes I'm all for it but don't replace corsica for the love of all holy things in the world.

Now that we finally got it back. Better Poland in that case (even though I love the Poland stages and it's blazingly fast roads).

Argentina and Mexico are never gonna go (and I'd be sad to see Argentina go), the rest of them are more or less essential... Maybe not Spain to a huge degree but I'd still be sad to see it go.

[AL14]

Well if they can make it happen without the bikes I'm all for it but don't replace corsica for the love of all holy things in the world.

Now that we finally got it back. Better Poland in that case (even though I love the Poland stages and it's blazingly fast roads).

Argentina and Mexico are never gonna go (and I'd be sad to see Argentina go), the rest of them are more or less essential... Maybe not Spain to a huge degree but I'd still be sad to see it go.

I said Corsica only because at this point, if China would be on tarmac, it is the main candidate to leave.

[itix]

I said Corsica only because at this point, if China would be on tarmac, it is the main candidate to leave.
We need more Tarmac rounds, not the same amount but with poor management and bikes in the SS

*sigh*

[wrc1600]

or perhaps Poland? honestly it's only there because of Kubica and once he'll leave so will the round...

how about 2009 edition? how about it's second oldest rally in Europe? and what about crowds of fans from Poland and neighboring countries? what it has anything to do with Kubica?

[rallyfun]

Maybe someone should consider over priced, over rated rally, with rally sprint Kind of format, poor accommodation, limited or no access to special stages.
It's funny how some people have opinion about places they've never been to or rallies they've never spectate.

[rallyfiend]

Maybe someone should consider over priced, over rated rally, with rally sprint Kind of format, poor accommodation, limited or no access to special stages.
It's funny how some people have opinion about places they've never been to or rallies they've never spectate.

What are you talking about?

[GigiGalliNo1]

How about I went to the recent WRC rally Poland and would never go to it again. Media perspective... and knowledge of what fans experienced.... Get rid of Rally Poland and Australia and give it back to NZ!

[thuGG]

And what exactly fans experienced?

[rallyfiend]

How about I went to the recent WRC rally Poland and would never go to it again. Media perspective... and knowledge of what fans experienced.... Get rid of Rally Poland and Australia and give it back to NZ!

'limited to no access to the stages', 'overpriced'.

I - and sadly too many other spectators - were able to access far too much of the event - for free - that the safety problems were so great!

And I found accommodation on the same level as other events I've been too.

And at 313km, it was just 7km shorter than that other 'rallysprint' event Rally Finland. Should they get rid of that too?

[Rallyper]

'limited to no access to the stages', 'overpriced'.

I - and sadly too many other spectators - were able to access far too much of the event - for free - that the safety problems were so great!

And I found accommodation on the same level as other events I've been too.

And at 313km, it was just 7km shorter than that other 'rallysprint' event Rally Finland. Should they get rid of that too?

I´m totally neutral in this matter, but never compare other rallies to the outstanding NORF. You´re doomed to fail everytime!

[Rally Hokkaido]

A good friend has just challenged JML and he has accepted. If he loses, I can imagine some of the comments that will be written here!
https://video.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xpt1/v/t42.1790-2/11924009_10153520152668605_1024880822_n.mp4?efg=ey JybHIiOjY0MiwicmxhIjo4MjJ9&rl=642&vabr=357&oh=55013fc93f9bd5474385433bde106f2c&oe=55E5B72F

[Rally Power]

"Mixed results for Chinese WRC candidate event"

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120562

[rallyfiend]

To be fair, wasn't it only a few years ago that Loeb found a motorbike coming the other direction in Portugal?

[Eli]

http://m.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120581/rally-gb-set-to-lose-season-finale-slot

[Rally Power]

Motorsport Monday's: http://digital.motorsportmonday.com/launch.aspx?eid=445b4637-a82c-4782-9b29-e04325c10a8e

[Simmi]

To be fair, wasn't it only a few years ago that Loeb found a motorbike coming the other direction in Portugal?

Yeah I don't think that's reason enough to can the event. It's a wake-up call but it's happened on a lot of rallies at all levels. Surprised it doesn't happen more.


As for the GB calendar date switch. Like the organiser says it's not really a big deal is it nowadays being the final round. There might actually be something left to fight for in October.

[AL14]

Oh come on, Australia as last round no please. They run when here is night and you lose some of the action. It is the last round before 2 months of agony and abstinence...We should fully enjoy it.

[Simmi]

Not had chance to pick up a copy yet but apparently Motorsport News has Jean Todt quoted as saying there could be 14 rounds in the WRC next year. Good news if that comes to pass.

[Eli]

Perhaps Cyprus rally would come back in May...

[MJW]

Not had chance to pick up a copy yet but apparently Motorsport News has Jean Todt quoted as saying there could be 14 rounds in the WRC next year. Good news if that comes to pass.
in Motorsport News - both Citroen and M-Sport dead against an icrease to 14 rounds with Jean Todt basically saying 'tough luck' to Citroen and M-Sports 'concerns' over bugetary increases from an additional round.

[Simmi]

in Motorsport News - both Citroen and M-Sport dead against an icrease to 14 rounds with Jean Todt basically saying 'tough luck' to Citroen and M-Sports 'concerns' over bugetary increases from an additional round.

Yikes. Isn't it ultimately down to the WRC promoter though to put the calendar together? The FIA obviously have to approve/ratify it. But I didn't realise Todt had any say?

[AndyRAC]

Yikes. Isn't it ultimately down to the WRC promoter though to put the calendar together? The FIA obviously have to approve/ratify it. But I didn't realise Todt had any say?

Ah, you're forgetting the FiA got their fingers burnt by Bernie - meaning they had little control over were the F1 calendar went. Since then, they've reigned in the other series so that they, the FiA have the final say; not the promoter.

[Antony Warmbold]

Ah, you're forgetting the FiA got their fingers burnt by Bernie - meaning they had little control over were the F1 calendar went. Since then, they've reigned in the other series so that they, the FiA have the final say; not the promoter.

It's pretty simple really. The FIA President is elected into office by the different FIA members. Those members are National Automobile clubs and federations. So it's in the FIA President's interest to make sure all these National Federations are happy. How do you keep them happy?

Give them what they want is a good start.

When this agenda goes the same way as the promoter's, then all is good.

Any questions?

[tommeke_B]

Any questions?

Yes. A question you can answer, with your experience of having done WRC-seasons with 15 (or 16?) events. Is it practically possible for the teams and drivers to do more than 13 events per year? Keeping into count the testing days works drivers are having.

I'm afraid that the cost of more events + more expensive cars (including developing those new cars) will lead to shorter events... Apart from all spectators and some drivers most people probably wouldn't mind...

[AL14]

If you add one more event then you add problems to weaker teams. And with weaker I mean teams with less budget than others.
The funny side in my opinion is that they invented, or try to put in, new rules (like start order, shootout) in order to affect front runners from richer teams and have a bit more tight fight during events. Now they're trying to increase the gap again...

[Jack4688`]

As it's not hosting the season finale anymore I'd like to see Rally GB go a bit radical and switch to March as round three

[tommeke_B]

As it's not hosting the season finale anymore I'd like to see Rally GB go a bit radical and switch to March as round three

That would mean the route must be almost finalized already before this year's event takes place, also it means 7-8 months less to secure the budget... Looks like mission impossible, except if they would skip the calendar for a year..

[Eli]

They should lose Sardegna, & Mexico and instead bring China if they want it so much and USA & NZ instead of Australia

[dimviii]

big move from DMACK
http://dmacktyres.com/brivio--s-dmack-move-to-attract-top-wrc-teams

[AL14]

big move from DMACK
http://dmacktyres.com/brivio--s-dmack-move-to-attract-top-wrc-teams

Read this morning and was about to share it here. As you said it's a big move. It shows they want definitely play with the big ones. Let's see.

[macebig]

Read this morning and was about to share it here. As you said it's a big move. It shows they want definitely play with the big ones. Let's see.

Wilson+Dmack=Neuville?

[EstWRC]

Maybe. i think Tänak has a big plus among the other drivers because he drove for them last year and helped to develop the tires.

[AL14]

Wilson+Dmack=Neuville?

Wilson+Dmack+huge wire transfer= Neuville :)


Maybe. i think Tänak has a big plus among the other drivers because he drove for them last year and helped to develop the tires.

I don't think Tanak would be that happy Est. What you think?

[Simmi]

Hopefully Dmack work their way in with privateers like before rather than throwing the chequebook at it. Prove the product first and maybe they could link up with Ford/M-Sport in 2017. Could be a nice fit.

[Jack4688`]

That would mean the route must be almost finalized already before this year's event takes place, also it means 7-8 months less to secure the budget... Looks like mission impossible, except if they would skip the calendar for a year..

Or slip back to October for next year and plan for March in 2017

[Antony Warmbold]

Yes. A question you can answer, with your experience of having done WRC-seasons with 15 (or 16?) events. Is it practically possible for the teams and drivers to do more than 13 events per year? Keeping into count the testing days works drivers are having.

I'm afraid that the cost of more events + more expensive cars (including developing those new cars) will lead to shorter events... Apart from all spectators and some drivers most people probably wouldn't mind...

In my opinion 15 or 16 events is ok but it's a heavy schedule and depending on logistics it's a budget question. Teams send kit overseas by container, while another set of kit is on the European continent for European events. Rally cars are sent at last minute by air freight. A guy like Kubica is skipping Australia because he'd need two sets of kit to do it, and maybe two cars, like we had when we were private in 2003 & 2004.

[AndyRAC]

15-16 events is a lot – and probably requires even more spending. And, is the ‘return on investment’ really worth it?
Personally, I’d rather see 10-12 ‘proper’ events all with their own identity, than 15-16 generic WRC events – but that’s not going to happen.
Remember the saying, “Walk before you can run”
Is the WRC strong enough to have 15-16 quality events? Hmm..I’m not convinced.

[EstWRC]

Wilson+Dmack+huge wire transfer= Neuville :)



I don't think Tanak would be that happy Est. What you think?

Not happy because Neuville may be coming or what do you mean? It's just speculation at the moment, i think Dmack wont come before 2017. :)

[AL14]

Not happy because Neuville may be coming or what do you mean? It's just speculation at the moment, i think Dmack wont come before 2017. :)

Yes pure speculation. :)

BTW I was referring to DMACK tyres. I don't think he loves him. They slowed him down in some rally. Am I wrong?

[EstWRC]

Yeah they still aren't on the same level as Michelin's or Pirelli's i guess, you could see it last year when Tänak was showing great pace in Sweden and Portugal but was nowhere in Rally GB with Dmack's.

[AMSS]

The gravel tire is actually quit good(though not on level with Michelin) but the tarmac tire still is way off the pace of both Pirelli and Michelin.. But this is why they hire new people..

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120614 why vw will continue kicking ass in 2017

[Mk2 RS2000]

Oh come on, Australia as last round no please. They run when here is night and you lose some of the action.

Works for us OK after all we have to sit up all night and then go to work all day afterwards while following all the WRC events in your part of the world.

[Simmi]

Big respect to fans in Oceania and different timezones. Definitely something us Euros take for granted.

As has been mentioned elsewhere I don't think the final round has anywhere near the significance it used to.

Final-round championship battles used to be almost guaranteed - or at least that's what it felt like. Since the turn of the millennium we've had just six final-round showdowns. The last time it happened was 2011. For what felt like utter domination during the Loeb era, one third of his title campaigns were decided on the final round. What we'd give for that now under Ogier/VW.

If Ogier does win the title as expected in Australia it will be the most dominant season since 2005 when Loeb won it with three rounds to spare.

[AL14]

Of course big respect for you fans in NZ and Australia, I didn't mean to disrespect you by saying I don't want final round "down under". Just, you know, the break from one championship to the other seems to be eternity and, as an addicted rally fan, I want to enjoy the last round as many as possible.
BTW FIA has all the rights to decide to choose Australia as last rally of the year and it would be absolutely legit.
In the contrary, I hope for more rallys in your timezones, like China, South Korea and so on, we all deserve to enjoy as more action as possible. :)

[bassist]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rally.html

Oh dear, this is tragic news. R.I.P.

[Mk2 RS2000]

[QUOTE=AL14;1063894]Of course big respect for you fans in NZ and Australia, I didn't mean to disrespect you by saying I don't want final round "down under". Just, you know, the break from one championship to the other seems to be eternity and, as an addicted rally fan, I want to enjoy the last round as many as possible.
QUOTE]
Yes know how you feel.
To make if a little more time (sleep) consuming, many Kiwi's have been following not only the antics of Hayden Paddon & John Kennard but also of Scott Dixon in Indy Cars plus Mitch Evans and Richie Stanaway in GP2 and then there is all the group racing sports cars in Europe.
At least we can follow all the Kiwi's running in the Aussie V8's at a reasonable time.

To date it has been a long year and we still have a team known as the All Blacks and the Rugby World Cup to come.

[AndyRAC]

With the success of NZ drivers, all the more reason for RallyNZ to be in the WRC, rather than the current Rally Australia.

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120700 Safety meeting following the deaths in recent rallies around the world.

[Eli]

http://en.best-of-rallylive.com/News/The-2016-WRC-calendar-to-be-announced-end-September and perhaps super license for 2017 world rally cars.

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120720 China postponing the issue of the calendar and 12 or 13 events next year most likely..unlike what we heard from Mr Todt. about 14 events.

[Simmi]

http://en.best-of-rallylive.com/News/The-2016-WRC-calendar-to-be-announced-end-September and perhaps super license for 2017 world rally cars.

Super license seems like an pointless FIA money-making exercise. We shouldn't be putting up any more barriers for people to get into top machinery. There are already more than enough.

[Eli]

Super license seems like an pointless FIA money-making exercise. We shouldn't be putting up any more barriers for people to get into top machinery. There are already more than enough.

yeah tell that to the FIA...

[AndyRAC]

Makes no sense at all. Once again, the FiA are completely out of touch. Instead of addressing proper issues, this is all they can come up with.

[N.O.T]

i agree with super licence but it should be a bit more than paying an amount to the FIA like it is done with all the "chicks with D%%%s" in F1.

[BleAivano]

Apparently Swedish rally Service park will be moved for the 2016 rally. From Hagfors to Karlstad. Imo someone really had a brain freeze when
that decision was made. :arrows:http://www.vf.se/nyheter/hagfors/serviceplatsen-flyttas-fran-hagfors

FIA have demanded this since there are not enough hotel rooms (and likely also not enough party party) in Hagfors.
If Swedish rally wouldn't have complied the rally would have been dropped.
The new service area will be at the outer harbour in Karlstad. Somewhere in this area: https://www.google.com/maps/@59.3677757,13.5299883,1868m/data=!3m1!1e3
Far away from the stages unless they plan on moving the stages southwards as well.

http://www.vf.se/nyheter/hagfors/serviceplatsen-flyttas-fran-hagfors

[dodge33cymru]

Super licenses, moving Sweden south, dropping Corsica for China...... what's going on here?

Moving Sweden service further south seems ridiculous, but no more so than some of the other unnecessarily massive commutes that are being made these days I guess.

[hari]

It will not be the first time the Service park will be located in Karlstad. As already most of the staff / teams had to be located in Karlstad because of the lack of accomodation further north and also overnight-halts have been in Karlstad before its not that big deal.
Stages will be run in same area with tyre Fitting zone in hagfors on Saturday.

Interesting will be where the shakedown will take place, probably it has to be moved too.

http://www.rallysweden.com/2015/09/new-service-park-for-rally-sweden/

[Simmi]

EDIT: hari's link answers a lot of questions.

It will be interesting to see what they come up with. I went this year and loved it but wasn't overly impressed by the service park

[Rallyper]

To be honest Rally Sweden isn´t the rally to visit both SP and stages and thinking you could come along with that in an easy way. RS is not like NORF, where everything is smoth. It´s also winter against summer. The choice which event to visit is easy.

But coming to RS best way to attend is to stay in the Hagfors area and just visit stages. Skip Karlstad!

[BleAivano]

EDIT: hari's link answers a lot of questions.

It will be interesting to see what they come up with. I went this year and loved it but wasn't overly impressed by the service park

From what I have read, the service park will not be open for the public during day time, only mornings and evenings.

[hari]

From what I have read, the service park will not be open for the public during day time, only mornings and evenings.

I read it as there will be no action in servicepark during the day - what makes sense given the Location and the rough route. There will only be morning and evening Service in Karlstad. Tyrefitting zones during the day out somewhere else like in previous years at the Norway leg.

[dimviii]

WTCC programme helping Citroen work on 2017 WRC regulations

Citroen is yet to make a decision on its future in the World Rally Championship beyond 2016, but team principal Yves Matton says the French manufacturer already has the edge on its rivals in terms of its '17 World Rally Car.

The World Touring Car Championship's technical regulations have enabled Citroen to run preliminary engine investigation work into what a 36mm restrictor would mean to a World Rally Car.

The WRC's shift from a 34mm turbo restrictor is among changes aimed at making cars faster, wider and more aggressive, with a boost from the current notional figure of 300bhp to 380bhp.

Citroen will remain in both the WRC and WTCC next season, but a decision for 2017 and beyond will be taken at the end of this year.

"In the first steps, we are in advance of the other manufacturers because we have the engine, thanks to WTCC," said Matton.

Citroen, WTCC
"So we know the strength and the weakness in this area.

"A big part of our engine work is done and we have a very good knowledge of working with this restrictor.

"For the moment, we are making a pre-study on some other technical topics, just to see how we can improve this.

"This is also part of our study to be back in 2017.

"If we are coming back in 2017, we are coming back to play for the victories against Volkswagen."

CITROEN OPEN TO NEUVILLE

Talk of Thierry Neuville's future has been spiced up by Matton's admission that his door would be open if the Belgian was to leave Hyundai.

Strong criticism of Neuville's recent performances from the Korean manufacturer reignited speculation that last year's Rally Germany winner could walk away at the end of this season.

Matton says he would be happy to see him back in Versailles, despite the way the relationship reportedly soured when Neuville turned his back on Citroen, preferring a full M-Sport programme for 2013.

"When Thierry Neuville is free, then you have to put him on the list," he told AUTOSPORT.

"From what I heard, he has a contract, but OK, you can always break a contract.

"For the moment, there has been no discussion. If he does come back then it's the proof that he has made two mistakes in the past..."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120733

[Simmi]

That's good to hear from Citroen that they are making those kind of studies. Better than nothing at least. If they knew they could snare a supposed 'marquee' driver like Neuville in 2017 that would probably also be a big tick towards them coming back.

Although Neuville leaving Hyundai next year just doesn't make sense. That new car is the only thing that has a chance of beating the VWs on pace. It would render the last two years a complete waste if he leaves before the pay-off. Assuming the car is as good as they say.

[Eli]

WTCC programme helping Citroen work on 2017 WRC regulations

Citroen is yet to make a decision on its future in the World Rally Championship beyond 2016, but team principal Yves Matton says the French manufacturer already has the edge on its rivals in terms of its '17 World Rally Car.

The World Touring Car Championship's technical regulations have enabled Citroen to run preliminary engine investigation work into what a 36mm restrictor would mean to a World Rally Car.

The WRC's shift from a 34mm turbo restrictor is among changes aimed at making cars faster, wider and more aggressive, with a boost from the current notional figure of 300bhp to 380bhp.

Citroen will remain in both the WRC and WTCC next season, but a decision for 2017 and beyond will be taken at the end of this year.

"In the first steps, we are in advance of the other manufacturers because we have the engine, thanks to WTCC," said Matton.

Citroen, WTCC
"So we know the strength and the weakness in this area.

"A big part of our engine work is done and we have a very good knowledge of working with this restrictor.

"For the moment, we are making a pre-study on some other technical topics, just to see how we can improve this.

"This is also part of our study to be back in 2017.

"If we are coming back in 2017, we are coming back to play for the victories against Volkswagen."

CITROEN OPEN TO NEUVILLE

Talk of Thierry Neuville's future has been spiced up by Matton's admission that his door would be open if the Belgian was to leave Hyundai.

Strong criticism of Neuville's recent performances from the Korean manufacturer reignited speculation that last year's Rally Germany winner could walk away at the end of this season.

Matton says he would be happy to see him back in Versailles, despite the way the relationship reportedly soured when Neuville turned his back on Citroen, preferring a full M-Sport programme for 2013.

"When Thierry Neuville is free, then you have to put him on the list," he told AUTOSPORT.

"From what I heard, he has a contract, but OK, you can always break a contract.

"For the moment, there has been no discussion. If he does come back then it's the proof that he has made two mistakes in the past..."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120733

it seems like they want to stay in the WRC or else why say they want Neuville unless theyr'e not thinking about staying..

[dimviii]

That's good to hear from Citroen that they are making those kind of studies. Better than nothing at least. If they knew they could snare a supposed 'marquee' driver like Neuville in 2017 that would probably also be a big tick towards them coming back.

Although Neuville leaving Hyundai next year just doesn't make sense. That new car is the only thing that has a chance of beating the VWs on pace. It would render the last two years a complete waste if he leaves before the pay-off. Assuming the car is as good as they say.
imho as i ve wrote before 2 years when he left ford for hyundai,Neuville is overated.

[AL14]

imho as i ve wrote before 2 years when he left ford for hyundai,Neuville is overated.

It could be true. But the desperation to find a possible champion can make wonders.

[Francis44]

Introducing another subject and not necessarily related to Mads crash on recce, as we were discussing in another topic the driving of participants on road section I came across a video I found very interesting and I would like to hear your opinions on this. How can the organizers control these kind of actions?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX_ZBxVv6Dw

Cross red light - Check
Drive a good 200 metres on wrong side of the road and cross red sign - Check.

[Ucci]

Introducing another subject and not necessarily related to Mads crash on recce, as we were discussing in another topic the driving of participants on road section I came across a video I found very interesting and I would like to hear your opinions on this. How can the organizers control these kind of actions?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX_ZBxVv6Dw

Cross red light - Check
Drive a good 200 metres on wrong side of the road and cross red sign - Check.

First I must say - video shows, what is not OK ! They are not driving according to traffic rules. Period!
But (there is always but....), I was a copilot for some years (maybe end of this season again...) and we did it (almost) all time on the liaisons. Overtaking, intrusion between vehicles, red lights-honestly I do not remember....but we never endanger ourselve or others...
One reasons for those maneuvers : beeing late for TC (a lot of traffic, maybe tyre change after SS, toilet..) was always excuse. On 99% of case no one complained, on many occasions other drivers gave you enough space, smile & thumb up, and we were lucky with police.
And this is still happening : if you don't have enough time to catch the time control on time, than you will break the law. Simple.....Why are you running out of time, is another story.

[tommeke_B]

Things like this video aren't unusual, especially in WRC... In Sardinia last year we almost had a frontal crash with a Fiesta RRC (who was overtaking another rallycar in a blind corner), he could just avoid us but for that he had to hit the rallycar he was overtaking (a Subaru group N). Fortunately only very minor damage for both of them. In Sweden we've seen some WRC cars overtaking before blind crests on quite fast roads (over 100kph). It's a miracle not more accidents are happening on road sections.

It's up to the organizers to make sure that drivers have enough time to get to the next stage + some extra 10 minutes for a stop... Also organizers should be more aware of the traffic from spectators moving between stages. It's a problem that can be solved, if organizers want to.

[rallyace]

Introducing another subject and not necessarily related to Mads crash on recce, as we were discussing in another topic the driving of participants on road section I came across a video I found very interesting and I would like to hear your opinions on this. How can the organizers control these kind of actions?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX_ZBxVv6Dw

Cross red light - Check
Drive a good 200 metres on wrong side of the road and cross red sign - Check.

Very interesting video, good find. I wholeheartedly agree that this is something organizers need to address for future rallies, regardless of how few accidents actually occur as direct or indirect results of this. By driving like in the video above, the message that is put out can only be harmful to the image of rally drivers and how they're perceived by the general public.

... and then there's Jari-Matti's liaisons, hehe. Abiding local traffic laws, nice to see, eh? And maybe it's just me, but I can practically see him waving back at the locals around Trier in this video from 2013. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTk1ocYcBUE

-Ethan

[traxx]

http://www.worldrallyisfree.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/i20Wrc2016Livery02.jpg (http://www.worldrallyisfree.com/2015/09/15/livree-i20-wrc-2016/)

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CO7TdIBWwAAXlUE.jpg:large

[rallyace]

Superb pictures of the new i20. On looks alone it has a lot more bite to it than the current one, and I think that is great to see. With its new specifications it has the potential to be a serious contender in 2016.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CO7ezwGWcAAW1L2.jpg:large

[Rallyper]

Sitting waiting for Hyundai PC at 11:30 CET. Nothing yet or are they on winther time already?

Edit: Ten minutes late only. 100 secs penalty :)

[Eli]

http://www.worldrallyisfree.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/i20Wrc2016Livery02.jpg (http://www.worldrallyisfree.com/2015/09/15/livree-i20-wrc-2016/)

they are very optimistic they will come second this year with that number 3 on the car lol

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120819 Mouton has a word or 2 about the night time stage & dust...stupid, she really should take their invitation to see what it's like before she criticizes the drivers and besides the drivers I hardly belive any of the spectators can see anything with that dust at night..

[rallyfiend]

I was there on the stage.

I thought it was spectacular and my first experience of night rallying.

There wasn't any dust where I was - the 5 minute gaps allowed it to clear quite well.

[Eli]

I was there on the stage.

I thought it was spectacular and my first experience of night rallying.

There wasn't any dust where I was - the 5 minute gaps allowed it to clear quite well.

ok sorry, my bad

[itix]

For you who watched the Hyundai press conf., what was said? Any news.
Paddon said the team would sit down and talk to him after the rally weekend was done.

[maciotacio]

Nothing worth attention, just some PR bullshit. Only one important information is that they're planning to run R5 programme next year.

[Miika]

Ogier visiting the wax museum:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CO8ozacWoAAzW4A.jpg:medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CO80DhEWgAEk5o2.jpg



@SebOgier (https://twitter.com/SebOgier/status/643790521320755200) Nice to see @SebastienLoeb today at #IAA2015 Frankfurt!

[AL14]

Nothing worth attention, just some PR bullshit. Only one important information is that they're planning to run R5 programme next year.

Which means we will see them in 2017.

[JAM]

Nothing worth attention, just some PR bullshit. Only one important information is that they're planning to run R5 programme next year.

They are planned to run or they are running right now this year and the R5 car will race in 2016?

[focus206]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CO7TdIBWwAAXlUE.jpg:large

Can anyone remind me why they decided to go with the 5 doors version?

[TWRC]

Can anyone remind me why they decided to go with the 5 doors version?
"The team had intended to run a three-door coupe i20 for its next generation World Rally Car and had scheduled its debut for the second half of this year.

Road car production problems have now diverted those plans significantly.

A five-door New Generation i20 WRC will replace the current car, but not until the 2016 Monte Carlo Rally."

From Autosport.com.

[makinen_fan]

Ogier is unbelievable... once again silly comments in Autosport
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120824


Sebastien Ogier has delivered bad news for his rivals in the wake of securing his third World Rally Championship title - the Frenchman thinks he's still getting quicker.

The Volkswagen driver became just the fourth driver in the WRC's history to win three titles when he scored his 31st world rally win in Australia last Sunday, but he's already looking to improve.

With three rallies remaining this year, Ogier wants to finish 2015 in perfect style.

"For me, we are just getting stronger and stronger," he said.

"I don't know if we're on the top, but probably we are close to it. I would not say I am, I don't want to be arrogant in this moment.

"I keep thinking, 'what I can make better and what can I improve?'

"I still have doubts, but this is only human - it's important to have that doubt, it helps to make yourself better.

"It's difficult to make a better one than this season and the target is to keep it at this level.

"After 10 rounds this has been the perfect season so far: no major mistake with Julien [Ingrassia] and only a single, small technical problem in the car - this is nothing in motorsport.

"For now, we can only think about making the statistics better and keeping this level until the end of the season.

"My target is to finish the season with no mistakes. I don't think this has ever been done, three races to go..."

The WRC returns to Europe for the next round, the returning Tour de Corse, which starts on October 1.

[maciotacio]

They are planned to run or they are running right now this year and the R5 car will race in 2016?

From what I've understood the R5 car will race in 2016. It's weird, cause we haven't seen any picture of their R5 car yet. For example Skoda has been testing Fabia for more than a year.

[dimviii]

Ogier is unbelievable... once again silly comments in Autosport

"I don't know if we're on the top, but probably we are close to it. I would not say I am, I don't want to be arrogant in this moment.


"For now, we can only think about making the statistics better and keeping this level until the end of the season.

"My target is to finish the season with no mistakes. I don't think this has ever been done, three races to go..."



Loeb have damaged his ego very badly.He is desperate trying to find something that Master havent got as record.


''season with no mistakes''
joke of the year.

[N.O.T]

I think he means retirement due to an accident.

Poor Ogier.. Loeb managed to break him before he retired... cruel man.

[Rally Power]

http://www.worldrallyisfree.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/i20Wrc2016Livery02.jpg (http://www.worldrallyisfree.com/2015/09/15/livree-i20-wrc-2016/)

Much better looking than the actual i20. Hope that it'll also be faster!

[Mk2 RS2000]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120819 Mouton has a word or 2 about the night time stage & dust...stupid, she really should take their invitation to see what it's like before she criticizes the drivers and besides the drivers I hardly belive any of the spectators can see anything with that dust at night..

Those of us who were fortunate enough to have competed in the same event/s as Michele during her Quattro days know that in the car she has bigger balls than just about any man we know.

During those days when she was running in the dark and dust there normally was only one minute between cars, not four or five, you were very fortunate if you could get two.

We can't put the old Gp B drivers into todays cars but if we could then I am sure some of todays hot shots would get one hellava surprise at her speed, bravery and ability.

[EightGear]

Oh look, we're praising history again.

[Jack4688`]

I'm amazed David Evans managed to type the words 'Tour de Corse'. He usually struggles with foreign names and after crossing out several attempts just settles for something easy like 'Rally of France'. Or, if he's feeling smug, will show that he was able to translate the original rally title into English all by himself and type 'Tour of Corsica' like a show-off.

[dimviii]

I think he means retirement due to an accident.

Poor Ogier.. Loeb managed to break him before he retired... cruel man.

Daniel Elena ‏@DanosElena 13 Σεπ
Félicitations @SebOgier et Julien Ingrassia pour votre 3ème titre #WRC ! Plus que 6 ���� ! #Worldchampions @OfficialWRC @VolkswagenRally

Sébastien Ogier ‏@SebOgier 14 Σεπ

https://twitter.com/DanosElena
@DanosElena @OfficialWRC @VolkswagenRally Merci Danos!
Tu peux dormir tranquille la route est encore très longue...��

αυτος ο Ελενα πρεπει να ειναι μεγαλο αρχιδι.Κοιτα κουρδισμα που του κανει.

[dimviii]

Μeeke answers with a photo at MMouton interview at autosport.com


krismeeke.com ‏@krismeeke 15 Σεπ
@autosport @fia
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CO8HkL_XAAASIkH.png

Mouton interview
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120819?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=brand%20awareness

[N.O.T]

Daniel Elena ‏@DanosElena 13 Σεπ
Félicitations @SebOgier et Julien Ingrassia pour votre 3ème titre #WRC ! Plus que 6 ���� ! #Worldchampions @OfficialWRC @VolkswagenRally

Sébastien Ogier ‏@SebOgier 14 Σεπ

https://twitter.com/DanosElena
@DanosElena @OfficialWRC @VolkswagenRally Merci Danos!
Tu peux dormir tranquille la route est encore très longue...��

αυτος ο Ελενα πρεπει να ειναι μεγαλο αρχιδι.Κοιτα κουρδισμα που του κανει.

τα 9 ειναι πολλα... ακομα 2 θα παρει και μετα φαπα.

[makinen_fan]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120838

Sebastien Ogier: Rally Australia shouldn't become 2016 WRC finale
By David Evans Wednesday, September 16th 2015, 16:07 GMT


Sebastien Ogier wants Rally GB to remain in its position as the last round of the World Rally Championship amid a potential calendar swap with Rally Australia for 2016.

Next year's WRC schedule is due to be revealed at the end of this month, with Australia widely tipped to move to the season finale.

But three-time world champion Ogier urged FIA officials to consider the sporting implications of such a change given the high level of road cleaning the championship leader would face in Australia.

"Imagine if it was the last round and you go there and play for the championship on that event; on such a rally," he said.

"With such a disadvantage on the starting order, would it be a nice end for the championship? I don't think so.

"If you go there as the leader, it would be really unfair and we don't have this problem in GB - the difference between first and second on the road there is very small."

One of the key elements for Australia's push to be the final round of the series is the staging of an end-of-season party in Sydney on the Monday night after the rally.

The organisers are reckoned to have set aside around a quarter of a million pounds for the black tie ball.

There was, however, little appetite for staying around after the rally and season had finished.

Volkswagen's Jost Capito said: "We already have the FIA's gala and we have our party ourselves, I'm not sure [it's necessary]."

M-Sport chief Malcolm Wilson was also dismissive.

"I can tell you now, we won't be there," he said of his self-funded team.

Ogier added that drivers would have little appetite for post-event festivities in Sydney.

"The priority number one is not the party," he said.

"OK, we must always support the events to promote the rallies, but after that rally I'm not sure people want to stay longer. I think they might want to get home."

[danon]

http://s5.postimg.org/od261bhzb/L_O.jpg

[N.O.T]

finally a good photoshop from you.

[AL14]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120838

Sebastien Ogier: Rally Australia shouldn't become 2016 WRC finale
By David Evans Wednesday, September 16th 2015, 16:07 GMT


Sebastien Ogier wants Rally GB to remain in its position as the last round of the World Rally Championship amid a potential calendar swap with Rally Australia for 2016.

Next year's WRC schedule is due to be revealed at the end of this month, with Australia widely tipped to move to the season finale.

But three-time world champion Ogier urged FIA officials to consider the sporting implications of such a change given the high level of road cleaning the championship leader would face in Australia.

He is right. I mean, he is funny too since he became world champions a couple of days ago and he keeps thinking about cleaning the road. It is an obsesson, I think he will marry it and live with it forever and have a lot of little and cute cleaning effects. But he is right.

[danon]

finally a good photoshop from you.

good for some - disturbing for others

[N.O.T]

good for some - disturbing for others

numbers do not mean much... Loeb is not Loeb just because of statistics and Ogier has a lot of ground to cover to even touch him even if he manages the same or better numbers.

Floyd Mayweather retired last saturday with numbers that bring greats like Duran, Leonard, Robinson to shame... but if you ask knowledgable people to name the greatest of the welter division they might mention Floyd around 10-15.

[SubaruNorway]

What a joke this rally has become, claiming they had 55.000 spectators... Did half of them stay in the servicepark...?

Not sure the first thing you want is a 6 hour drive to a party after the rally :p


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120838

Sebastien Ogier: Rally Australia shouldn't become 2016 WRC finale
By David Evans Wednesday, September 16th 2015, 16:07 GMT


Sebastien Ogier wants Rally GB to remain in its position as the last round of the World Rally Championship amid a potential calendar swap with Rally Australia for 2016.

Next year's WRC schedule is due to be revealed at the end of this month, with Australia widely tipped to move to the season finale.

But three-time world champion Ogier urged FIA officials to consider the sporting implications of such a change given the high level of road cleaning the championship leader would face in Australia.

"Imagine if it was the last round and you go there and play for the championship on that event; on such a rally," he said.

"With such a disadvantage on the starting order, would it be a nice end for the championship? I don't think so.

"If you go there as the leader, it would be really unfair and we don't have this problem in GB - the difference between first and second on the road there is very small."

One of the key elements for Australia's push to be the final round of the series is the staging of an end-of-season party in Sydney on the Monday night after the rally.

The organisers are reckoned to have set aside around a quarter of a million pounds for the black tie ball.

There was, however, little appetite for staying around after the rally and season had finished.

Volkswagen's Jost Capito said: "We already have the FIA's gala and we have our party ourselves, I'm not sure [it's necessary]."

M-Sport chief Malcolm Wilson was also dismissive.

"I can tell you now, we won't be there," he said of his self-funded team.

Ogier added that drivers would have little appetite for post-event festivities in Sydney.

"The priority number one is not the party," he said.

"OK, we must always support the events to promote the rallies, but after that rally I'm not sure people want to stay longer. I think they might want to get home."

[danon]

numbers do not mean much... Loeb is not Loeb just because of statistics and Ogier has a lot of ground to cover to even touch him even if he manages the same or better numbers.

Floyd Mayweather retired last saturday with numbers that bring greats like Duran, Leonard, Robinson to shame... but if you ask knowledgable people to name the greatest of the welter division they might mention Floyd around 10-15.

Right said NOT - numbers mean much for the records - personality is what counts. Hence the photoshop... ;)

Ogier could win many titles throughout his career but he'll always lack the most important one - "The People's Champ".

One day Ogier will get back to Citroen / Peugeot to try to sort that one out on his way back home.

[danon]

Close call WRC Australia 2015 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLVyRAt2cxbxsRtL-NoCNMrpxkBy2aaC-T&v=EDgiageJdts

[bassist]

Close call WRC Australia 2015 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLVyRAt2cxbxsRtL-NoCNMrpxkBy2aaC-T&v=EDgiageJdts

Bloody hell!!!!

[Toyoda]

Some serious tall poppy syndrome going on here with people's comments on Ogier. He is the best get over it, he thinks he can get better, if he did not then there would be a problem.

I also completely agree with Ogiers complaints amount the road order, penalising the person in the lead of the championship is just nuts. But what is worse is why the hell they got rid of the Shakedown qualifying stage.
Also if you had a strong opinion on your life's sport why would you not voice it, this is what Ogier is doing, some one asks a question and he answers it honestly.
It's not arrogance, it's its competitiveness and passion and confidence always with a hint of self doubt. It's what all high performing athletes and to that extent musicians have when striving for perfection and growth in their discipline.

[Zeakiwi]

Close call WRC Australia 2015 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLVyRAt2cxbxsRtL-NoCNMrpxkBy2aaC-T&v=EDgiageJdts

That was Hyundai? Which one.....

[Toyoda]

Kinda looked like Sordo if you pause it, Like a double digit 20?

[Barreis]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120840

[Eli]

didn't they have the WMSC meeting today to discuss next year's calendar or did they delay it and just have the final draft on the 30th of Septmeber?

[Munkvy]

Some serious tall poppy syndrome going on here with people's comments on Ogier. He is the best get over it, he thinks he can get better, if he did not then there would be a problem.

I also completely agree with Ogiers complaints amount the road order, penalising the person in the lead of the championship is just nuts. But what is worse is why the hell they got rid of the Shakedown qualifying stage.
Also if you had a strong opinion on your life's sport why would you not voice it, this is what Ogier is doing, some one asks a question and he answers it honestly.
It's not arrogance, it's its competitiveness and passion and confidence always with a hint of self doubt. It's what all high performing athletes and to that extent musicians have when striving for perfection and growth in their discipline.

There is a point though where it gets boring, hearing the same BS over and over again. He needs to move on... Loeb just got in there, did the job, won from the front, over and over again. So as long as Ogier is a whiner, people are going to compare him to the other person who has done the same in even more difficult circumstances, without whinging constantly and judge him accordingly.

[Eli]

http://m.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120861/citroen-unlikely-to-promote-lefebvre so both Meeke & Ostberg will stay? And does it mean Citroen won't be in the WRC beyond 2016?

[Simmi]

http://m.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120861/citroen-unlikely-to-promote-lefebvre so both Meeke & Ostberg will stay? And does it mean Citroen won't be in the WRC beyond 2016?

Difficult to draw any conclusions from that piece. The quotes don't even really support the headline so who knows.



On the subject of Lefebvre. This is not a criticism of him, but it's interesting to see everyone in the WRC media core raving about his last two performances. He set a couple of nice times in Germany - but have the days gone now where a driver could come in and instantly impress with eye-catching speed/stage times?

Or is it all about consistency, building, learning and not making mistakes now? Genuine question.

[Mirek]

http://m.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120861/citroen-unlikely-to-promote-lefebvre so both Meeke & Ostberg will stay? And does it mean Citroen won't be in the WRC beyond 2016?

You are searching for something what is not in the article. Matton said earlier that the driver line-up for 2016 will be different than in 2015 but he also said it was too early to promote Lefebvre to the works seat. He also said that DS will end in WRC at the end of 2016 but strongly indicated that Citroën will continue in 2017, likely with new C3.

[Andre Oliveira]

According autosport.pt China had bad feedback on candidate rally. No WRC on china next year.

[Simmi]

Better to wait a year and get the event right. Hopefully that is enough for Citroen. Although it does put the challenges of an event into perspective when you see a spectator somehow walking down the track at the Singapore GP.

[Rally Power]

http://m.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120861/citroen-unlikely-to-promote-lefebvre so both Meeke & Ostberg will stay? And does it mean Citroen won't be in the WRC beyond 2016?

Tavares, PSA boss, was in Frankfurt Motor Show in the company of Citro WTCC and DS FE drivers...no WRC allusion.

Btw, at the some time Ogier was in VW's stand celebrating their new titles! Besides Hyundai's i20 presentation, Opel put Bergkvist ERC Junior winning car in a noticeable way!

[Mirek]

Tavares, PSA boss, was in Frankfurt Motor Show in the company of Citro WTCC and DS FE drivers...no WRC allusion.

PSA has been doing many strange things lately. For example they now announced to stop with their pressed-air hybrids and diesel-electric hybrids in which they put billions of Euros previously.

[Rally Power]

For the first time in many years PSA will have profits! Some moves can seem strange if you don't get the full picture. But sorting WRC, when they're WTCC dominant force, hardly can be described as a strange thing...

[Mirek]

For the first time in many years PSA will have profits! Some moves can seem strange if you don't get the full picture. But sorting WRC, when they're WTCC dominant force, hardly can be described as a strange thing...

It is strange thing as Matton himself admitted that the return from WTCC is very poor and they are very dissapointed with it. He said that it's completely opposite with WRC and that their partners (especially Abu Dhabi) prefer WRC.

[Andre Oliveira]

It is time of Peugeot back to rallies :)

[MikeD]

Ogier could win many titles throughout his career but he'll always lack the most important one - "The People's Champ".

One day Ogier will get back to Citroen / Peugeot to try to sort that one out on his way back home.

Jep, that is exactly Ogier's problem. He stepped on all the Citroën and Loeb fans with his arrogant attitude ... and those fans would naturally have converted to like him after the Loeb retirement. But now we all think he's just an arrogant dïck .... a very quick one ... but arrogant and with very few fans.

PS: And I guess that with todays massive VW scandal, VW will be forced to leave WRC at the end of the year, due to the massive law luits that are awaiting the VW Group in the US. The VW Group stock is dow 15% this morning, but when the law suits will become clear it will really take a tumble.

Suddenly I wouldn't be surpriced if Ogier driver a Citroën in 2016!

[MikeD]

The first lawsuit againt VW has just be made. 18 billion USD !!!!

I would not be surprised if we see VW withdraw from the WRC with immedate effect.

[AL14]

They will never make them pay such lawsuit IMO.
I've also read lately that VW wanted to buy redbull racing. Don't know if it is just a rumor...Let's see

[MikeD]

They will never make them pay such lawsuit IMO.
I've also read lately that VW wanted to buy redbull racing. Don't know if it is just a rumor...Let's see

The title on Twitter today regarding VW: "The Lance Armstrong Of Automakers" :lol:

[Mirek]

-20% for VAG stock in this moment...

[Karukera]

Smart illegal pollution anti detection software in Vw cars ?
Should ring some bells in the WRC.
Hope Meeke wasn't prophetic with his "They've got something we haven't." and meant "drivers' talent and consistency"...

[GigiGalliNo1]

Link to this scandal?

[AL14]

Google Volkswagen and the go to the news section. You'll find loads of articles about the topic

[Mirek]

I always thought that the ECU ability to detect the standard emission/fuel test cycle was kind of a public secret for years and that it was not only VW doing that.

[Gregor-y]

I don't know if the students finding the data discrepancies that exposed VW's operation looked at other cars, but in US VW is the only company selling diesel cars in volume. There are a handful of BMW and Mercedes models and one Chevy, but VW is the only big seller.

But that's still nothing compared to sales of diesel pickup trucks, many of which have software installed to dump fuel and spit out dark clouds of soot because it looks tough.

[GigiGalliNo1]

http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/21/investing/vw-emissions-cheating-shares/?sr=cnnifb

I don't see this fully stopping VW from having a Motorsport program in the WRC or any other sport! Hah

[dimviii]

They will never make them pay such lawsuit IMO.
I've also read lately that VW wanted to buy redbull racing. Don't know if it is just a rumor...Let's see

F1_Addict ‏@F1_Addict
Auto Bild reporting that VW/Audi F1 deal is all but done. However, entry would lead to withdrawal from DTM & WEC. Shame if true.

[Rally Power]

A nice time to buy VW shares! This scandal will probably end like the 2014 GM faulty ignition switches: paying a fine after making a deal with US authorities and roll some heads on the board...business as usual.

[Simmi]

F1_Addict ‏@F1_Addict
Auto Bild reporting that VW/Audi F1 deal is all but done. However, entry would lead to withdrawal from DTM & WEC. Shame if true.

Couldn't care less about the DTM but it would be a shame to see one of the greatest and most road-relevant manufacturer racing programmes end if Audi are forced out of sportscar racing. Although with Porsche arriving last year it did seem like they were on borrowed time regardless.

[Mirek]

There has been some bad relationship in VAG between Audi and Porsche also thanks to Porsche Le Mans victory and I don't expect them to continue fighting against each other.

[janvanvurpa]

But that's still nothing compared to sales of diesel pickup trucks, many of which have software installed to dump fuel and spit out dark clouds of soot because it looks tough.

Isn't that the main purpose of big diesel pick ups?

Out here in the West I see perhaps one big 7+ liter turbo diesel pick up out of maybe 30, maybe 0ne in 40 with anything ever in the bed..
Fashion statement and weenie-extention

[rallyfiend]

I don't see Audi withdrawing from DTM. It's too important for them to please the home market. It's money worth spending for the 'emotion' and 'brand love' in Germany.

WEC, on the otherhand, as Mirek says, was destined for departure of one of the VAG brands.

[RICARDO75]

South Korea is also going to test 3 VW models.
VW admitted that could be 11 milion cars with that electronic scheme

[Mirek]

This particular case may not be relevant for non-US markets as the emission standards in other countries unlike US have specific (more free) limits for diesel engines (I admit I don't know which standards Korea use).

[itix]

Better to wait a year and get the event right. Hopefully that is enough for Citroen. Although it does put the challenges of an event into perspective when you see a spectator somehow walking down the track at the Singapore GP.
Ugh... What?

I have stopped following Formula Folly so I have no idea what's going on anymore. This actually happened?

[itix]

It is time of Peugeot back to rallies :)
I wish... I doubt it though

[itix]

Also... The talk about VW exiting next year is too early. The WRC and the car industry has always been reactive rather than proactive. If they cut their WRC program it will be in -17 rather than -16.

As someone who dislikes German cars in general, these are actually really good days for me personally though.

I'd still bin the hopes of a VW exit next year though

[Rallyper]

Also... The talk about VW exiting next year is too early. The WRC and the car industry has always been reactive rather than proactive. If they cut their WRC program it will be in -17 rather than -16.

As someone who dislikes German cars in general, these are actually really good days for me personally though.

I'd still bin the hopes of a VW exit next year though

So what do you prefer then? WHich country makes the best cars in your opinion? South Korea? Japan? Italy? Maybe Spain? But no, not Russia I pressume.

[itix]

I don't have a definitive answer to that question... But certainly not the Germans, that's for sure.

If the mathematical equation of the car had a solution, the Germans are the closest to that solution... But cars aren't mathematics and can't be understood by calculus. All off topic I guess but I have never been a fan of the German approach.

I like the Italians and French but also some of the Japanese efforts. Korea is coming closer to something likeable.

Americans have always been too big and too brash for my taste.

China has so far only been able to give me the chuckles car wise. We'll see about the future.

I've liked Peugeot for a long time (minus the 207) due to their rally programme when I was a kid so...

Now back to WRC stuff.

Maybe the VW budget might see some slahes if there are any proactive heads in VAG group (smart group that uses the abbreviation for vagina btw) but other than that we shouldn't expect any major changes

[stefanvv]

So what do you prefer then? WHich country makes the best cars in your opinion? South Korea? Japan? Italy? Maybe Spain? But no, not Russia I pressume.

Was there such thing in Russia?

[Mariusz]

What do you think, is it possible to cheat in a similar way in WRC cars? You know, temporary decrease the performance to the allowed limits when being tested but let the car go in full power on stages?

[stefanvv]

I don't have a definitive answer to that question... But certainly not the Germans, that's for sure.

If the mathematical equation of the car had a solution, the Germans are the closest to that solution... But cars aren't mathematics and can't be understood by calculus. All off topic I guess but I have never been a fan of the German approach.

that's interesting. Without Germans there wouldn't be cars as we know them....

[N.O.T]

What do you think, is it possible to cheat in a similar way in WRC cars? You know, temporary decrease the performance to the allowed limits when being tested but let the car go in full power on stages?

of course it is possible. but something being possible doesn't mean it is worth doing it.

[Nelly]

of course it is possible. but something being possible doesn't mean it is worth doing it.

Ask Toyota bout that 😀

[Rally Power]

Ask Toyota bout that ��

http://www.inpmedia.com/2014/06/03/toyotas-selective-amnesia/

[Rallyper]

Was there such thing in Russia?

Lada.

[stefanvv]

http://www.inpmedia.com/2014/06/03/toyotas-selective-amnesia/

And what's illegal about that? I see the same restrictor size of 34mm.....

[stefanvv]

Lada.

What is Lada?

[rayh_mx]

* A Russian Car...
*In Mexico... Long Distance Codes (LArga DistanciA)

[stefanvv]

* A Russian Car...
*In Mexico... Long Distance Codes (LArga DistanciA)

Wasn't there also something like "bamos Vocho"? May be the spelling is not quite correct, sorry for that if it is....

[rayh_mx]

Don't be sorry, it's important that you try

In fact "Vamos Vocho". Something similar like "C'mon Beetle" :bandit:

Vocho is the popular term for adapted VW beetle air cold

[stefanvv]

Don't be sorry, it's important that you try

In fact "Vamos Vocho". Something similar like "C'mon Beetle" :bandit:

Vocho is the popular term for adapted VW beetle air cold

Ah, yes. I forgot something from Spanish obviously. Thank You.

[janvanvurpa]

What do you think, is it possible to cheat in a similar way in WRC cars? You know, temporary decrease the performance to the allowed limits when being tested but let the car go in full power on stages?


In both real world and rally who tests? In USA the emissions testing is what is called "self certification" which as explained to me by the Certification Engineer at Saab years ago means they send in data to US EPA and say "It does this" and that's it. Since I run a business that specialized in the Ford "Taunus" V4 which Saab used (1,5 liter for all markets from '67 thru 1980 except USA for 71 thru end or 73 when we got the "Big Block" 1,7 liter...) I asked about the use of 1,7 for the last 3 years of importation "what did you do about emissions" (the 1500 V4 was 90mm bore, and 58.6mm stroke and 9:1 compression, the 1700 was 90mm bore, same rods and 66.8 stroke and 8.0 compression...but same cam, same everything else)
In short similar stuff but really quite different, so I asked. He said "Oh we knew we're just schedule to sell those for 2-3 more years so we just sent in the same data as before..It is self certifying so why bother"

[Grundo Farb]

What do you think, is it possible to cheat in a similar way in WRC cars? You know, temporary decrease the performance to the allowed limits when being tested but let the car go in full power on stages?

My brother tells stories from the late 80's early 90's when cars would be strutineered, the restrictors measured, then they would start the road section, drive down the road to a remote service crew (in those days they had many dotted around the landscape) and have the restrictor removed/changed to a larger one.

He never told me which teams but he believed it was quite common.

[janvanvurpa]

My brother tells stories from the late 80's early 90's when cars would be strutineered, the restrictors measured, then they would start the road section, drive down the road to a remote service crew (in those days they had many dotted around the landscape) and have the restrictor removed/changed to a larger one.

He never told me which teams but he believed it was quite common.

Considering that the restrictors were paint dabbed, and drilled and wired with ether lead of tamperproof stainless seals and that scrutineers could do spot checks anywhere, anytime......

Kinda a huge risk---do you remember Toyota's 1 year ban and stripped of WRC points when their cheat was discovered? Or Fords $250,000 fine when they notified the FIA that their Sierra V6 (built by some old friends of mine) for Stig Blomqvist ran '87 Monte carlo with LH Jet-tronic Bosch injection rather than the Bosch Le they had homologated the car with (as if it made any difference---poor ol 2.8 V6 barely made 210 hp)

That said I have it very good source that during '86 season---how coincidental for the current scandal!----in the FIA Cup for 2wd WRC the VW team could--and did---change all sorts of crazy things including head and intake at last service before Final ATC, and they just happened to have a wooden case with every pain color you could think of and both lead and stainless seals..
How convenient...Said the guy watching---a notorious, well known long term "Production" class guy here in US who was outrageous in his cheating...."Damn THOSE GUYS were good, I was really impressed."

Who can say?

[itix]

And what's illegal about that? I see the same restrictor size of 34mm.....
It baffles me that you don't know the infamous Toyota cheat... They still spoke about it when I started watching rallying in the late 90s.

They built device around the mandatory restrictor that would hold the restrictor towards the turbine housing with springs. The inlet air hose was then put over the restrictor and the restrictor pulled out while hose clamps secured the restrictor in out position, thus letting more air in behind the restrictor.

If you wanted to inspect the thing, you needed to remove the hose clamps and voila, the restrictor snaps back in place via the springs and all looks well.

[makinen_fan]

It baffles me that you don't know the infamous Toyota cheat... They still spoke about it when I started watching rallying in the late 90s.

They built device around the mandatory restrictor that would hold the restrictor towards the turbine housing with springs. The inlet air hose was then put over the restrictor and the restrictor pulled out while hose clamps secured the restrictor in out position, thus letting more air in behind the restrictor.

If you wanted to inspect the thing, you needed to remove the hose clamps and voila, the restrictor snaps back in place via the springs and all looks well.

I think his comment was sarcastic :)

[itix]

Ah yes... Didn't consider that possibility.

[MikeD]

I don't have a definitive answer to that question... But certainly not the Germans, that's for sure.

If the mathematical equation of the car had a solution, the Germans are the closest to that solution... But cars aren't mathematics and can't be understood by calculus. All off topic I guess but I have never been a fan of the German approach.

I like the Italians and French but also some of the Japanese efforts. Korea is coming closer to something likeable.

Americans have always been too big and too brash for my taste.

China has so far only been able to give me the chuckles car wise. We'll see about the future.

I've liked Peugeot for a long time (minus the 207) due to their rally programme when I was a kid so...

Now back to WRC stuff.

Maybe the VW budget might see some slahes if there are any proactive heads in VAG group (smart group that uses the abbreviation for vagina btw) but other than that we shouldn't expect any major changes

Finally somebody other than me, who's not that impressed with german cars. I have always been into Italian and French car brands, and especially the rare sport cars.

On the matter of there will be effects on the VW motorsport programs .... trust me there will. If you follow CNBC or Bloomberg, you will get the sense of how serious this actually is ... not only for the many law suits awaiting them, but also for future earnings for the company. There is a reason that Angela Merkel is involved in this now, and that's because German carmakers, is 20% of the total German exports!!

I do think, due the the company called VW, that it's actually that brand that will be most under threat, and I do expects the VW program in the WRC to be stopped by the end of this year at the latest. The last thing they want with the VW brand is to participate in what is percieved as a poluting by the normal people. Furthermore, the VW group will actually have to look at the political interest in the company, and their stockholders more than anything. So I guess cost-cutting will be on the agenda, after the law-suits have been settles, and there is no way that the WRC program will fit into that.

[stefanvv]

Ah yes... Didn't consider that possibility.

makinen_fan was right, I was a bit ironic. Physically the restrictor is there with the same size exactly how is said in the regulations. The rest is left to the brilliant engineers to find a side door and lawyers to stretch the regulation words anyway they want. But obviously Toyota knew what they did wrong.

[Lundefaret]

My brother tells stories from the late 80's early 90's when cars would be strutineered, the restrictors measured, then they would start the road section, drive down the road to a remote service crew (in those days they had many dotted around the landscape) and have the restrictor removed/changed to a larger one.

He never told me which teams but he believed it was quite common.

Going from the "free for all" group B regulations, to the very tight Group A regulations ment heavier cars with much less power. In the hunt for hp it was done a lot of "tricks". Everything from Lancias extra air vents behind the license plate, to cheating with restrictors and turbo pressure etc. In the USA there is a lot of great stories on technical cheating in NASCAR, with the 3/4 car, the banana car, nitrous or fuel in the roll cage etc. It would be cool to get similar stories from the Group A days out in the open. Engineers are very creative, and some of their solutions to cheating is extremely clever!

[Lundefaret]

Finally somebody other than me, who's not that impressed with german cars. I have always been into Italian and French car brands, and especially the rare sport cars.

On the matter of there will be effects on the VW motorsport programs .... trust me there will. If you follow CNBC or Bloomberg, you will get the sense of how serious this actually is ... not only for the many law suits awaiting them, but also for future earnings for the company. There is a reason that Angela Merkel is involved in this now, and that's because German carmakers, is 20% of the total German exports!!

I do think, due the the company called VW, that it's actually that brand that will be most under threat, and I do expects the VW program in the WRC to be stopped by the end of this year at the latest. The last thing they want with the VW brand is to participate in what is percieved as a poluting by the normal people. Furthermore, the VW group will actually have to look at the political interest in the company, and their stockholders more than anything. So I guess cost-cutting will be on the agenda, after the law-suits have been settles, and there is no way that the WRC program will fit into that.

Every country that has a competing car production will want to exploit this opportunity of trying to take down VW. South Korea, France, Italy, USA etc.
The same (wrongfully) happened the last time Audi tried to get in to the US market (the withdrew, but the damage was contained in the US.)

Regarding the WRC program I would not think that this will be affected. This will be a big blow for VW, and they will have to pay out many billions of dollars, but they are a HUGE company, with a HUGE revenue, so the cash payments won't be what hurts the most.

But stock prices now down 35% is worse. Stock prices is off course only fantasy money, but VW now needs to work very hard to earn the stock buyers thrust. And will do that as soon as things have been settled, and payments done etc, and the first quarter they start a positive progression in the market after that. If money comes in and everybody is happy, the market will have thrust.

The WRC program is such a small part of the VW, but still an important brand builder, so its very unlikely of this moment (if not something else happens) that the plug will be pulled. But had they've been in Hyundais position, this could be the "perfect" escape, like both Suzuki and Subaru used the financial crisis as a "force majour" excuse to pull the plug on their WRC efforts, even tough it really was other aspects that was more important than that. Like not being competitive - for whatever reason.

If I have one tip in all this VW crisis hysteria, is to wait until You think the stocks have hit rock bottom (not long), and buy VW stocks. You can potentially earn a lot of money.

[Simmi]

Stories from Motorsport News today:

Meeke says he is prepared to leave Citroen to stay in the World Rally Championship. Frustrated by a lack of progress in talks - but then again Matton is likely more concerned about keeping his own job, as well as helping to decide the WRC vs WTCC debate. Article padded out by complete speculation - linking contracted drivers like Neuville and Lappi to Citroen seats.

Superlicense - Ogier calling for a superlicense due to the extra power of the 2017 cars. Seemingly a few doubts creeping in about the wisdom of the regulations. Did they actually need the extra power? Or, if you are going to give them the power - did they need all the improved aero? Basically people said on the forum as soon as it was announced.

Calendar - Was delayed but should be getting voted on round about now by the WRC Commission. That will be put forward to the WMSC meeting next week.

M-Sport 2017 car - Malcolm Wilson confirms they won't start testing until the second half of next year (effectively 12 months after VW began). Says he is unconcerned by that and they have experience with the centre diffs. Says modifying a current car would be a waste of money for them. Meanwhile VW say they will begin tarmac testing soon. Diether Depping and Marcus Gronholm will do the early work.

[stefanvv]

... Meanwhile VW say they will begin tarmac testing soon. Diether Depping and Marcus Gronholm will do the early work.

Which said VW is strongly committed to WRC despite company's crisis times I believe.

[Simmi]

Which said VW is strongly committed to WRC despite company's crisis times I believe.

Any quotes will likely have been gathered before the emissions story really took off. VW/Capito will surely be asked about that once the rally begins next week. It's too early to say what the implications are for motorsport. But unless they hear different the team just continue as normal.

[EstWRC]

Thanks for the news Simmi! VW will continue for sure because they are dominating like hell

[stefanvv]

Any quotes will likely have been gathered before the emissions story really took off. VW/Capito will surely be asked about that once the rally begins next week. It's too early to say what the implications are for motorsport. But unless they hear different the team just continue as normal.

Of course, but if there is any shadow of doubt they might delay '17 plans development instead throw away some more money on it... I think

[EightGear]

They're not going anywhere:

www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120946/vw-wants-audilike-wrc-dominance

Frightening thought, really.

[rallyfiend]

Maybe not, but don't expect Winterkorn to be in charge after the meeting this afternoon - or at latest Friday's Board meeting.

This scandal could very easily spiral completely out of control.....

[pantealex]

WRC is positive PR for VW
and they need all good PR now.

[AL14]

WRC is positive PR for VW
and they need all good PR now.

You are right but it is not positive on an ecological point of view. At the moment is very hard to make a prediction. Winterkorn could go away and you don't know who will be in charge next. Or maybe he will stay and change politics radically. Let's see how events will evolve. I think they have not even thought about WRC at the moment, they have many other priorities.

[Rally Power]

On the matter of there will be effects on the VW motorsport programs .... trust me there will. If you follow CNBC or Bloomberg, you will get the sense of how serious this actually is ... not only for the many law suits awaiting them, but also for future earnings for the company. There is a reason that Angela Merkel is involved in this now, and that's because German carmakers, is 20% of the total German exports!!

I do think, due the the company called VW, that it's actually that brand that will be most under threat, and I do expects the VW program in the WRC to be stopped by the end of this year at the latest. The last thing they want with the VW brand is to participate in what is percieved as a poluting by the normal people. Furthermore, the VW group will actually have to look at the political interest in the company, and their stockholders more than anything. So I guess cost-cutting will be on the agenda, after the law-suits have been settles, and there is no way that the WRC program will fit into that.

TV journos are blood sucking creatures. Richard Quest reporting VW troubles looked like a hungry hyena jumping into a dead body! We must let the dust settled. Probably sooner or later Mr. Winterkorn will step down and the US diesel market niche will get a black eye by environmentalists, but in Europe, China and elsewhere repercussions will be limited. In a globalized economy there's no interest to put a major player in misery, because at the end everybody will get affected...

As far VW motorsport activities, they certainly won't be distressed by financial reasons and only diverse, environmental pressured, marketing strategies could put them in question. Hard to see that happen immediately.

[Simmi]

Lots of people quick to give their interpretation of what is going to happen. But honestly right now we don't know how deep the rabbit hole goes. For instance reports are coming out now that the German government were likely complicit in the NOX emission rigging.

This could get a whole lot worse. But who knows honestly. Certainly no one on this forum.

All I will say is - just because VW could afford to remain in the WRC, or Audi in the DTM - doesn't mean that's what you do when you have shareholders to appease.

[AL14]

Winterkorn no more CEO of VW.

[itix]

Winterkorn no more CEO of VW.
Source?

[EightGear]

Source?

The news.

[skarderud]

In all norwegian newspapers now about winterkorn's exit

[AL14]

Winterkorn: "I decided to retire after Latvala's crash during Corsica's test".

[Lundefaret]

For those of You with conspiratory tendencies: If Matthias Müller replaces Winterkorn, then You can start weaving cob webs.

[Rallyper]

If Matthias Müller replaces Winterkorn, then You can start weaving cob webs.

Meaning what? My english isn´t that good...

[Mintexmemory]

Meaning what? My english isn´t that good...
Got me beat and I'm a native anglo-saxon!!

[janvanvurpa]

Meaning what? My english isn´t that good...

spinna spindelnät
här ser du fabriks VW bilar i nära framtiden

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8wRo4smIfwM/Upc3cgowcRI/AAAAAAAAE1A/BcVnLAHL7N0/s1600/20131127_090100-741215.jpg

[janvanvurpa]

Got me beat and I'm a native anglo-saxon!!

Yeah but youse way down in Kent....and Kentish is a much older variation of what is basiclly the same language as all the boys north of ''The Angle'' speak...
Now if you wuz from up in the Norf-east where Lundis and Pelle's great great great great Grandfathers came and had their holdiday homes then you'd understand those nordic languages like that (snap).

Remember Harald? 1066 and all that? Know the history? Just before he fought his cousin William from Normandy (get it? Nor Man---where do ya think they came from?) what was Harald doing?
Harold Godwinson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Godwinson) har to run up Norf and fight Haraldr Sigurðarson....also know as Hardrada (harðráði, which today would be Hård råd or Hard advice meaning a hard man..

What I'm saying is you ought to understand Norwegian and Swedish cause they were at some point the same gang as the Angles some of which wander off Westward and settled in Kent, some wander off to the North and became Danes, Swedes and Norskies...And then some started making ''visits'' to all the coasts of Europe and the British Isles and when they got tired of commuting to work, some settled down in the Norf-east, the coasts of Scotland and ireland, so many settled in the West of France they re-named it after them as Norman-dy.

So Yorkshire dialect is just a variation of West Norse and should be easy to understand all these other dialects..

I mean I can and I'm just some old knucklehead moto-cross guy whose head was dinged
(fick däng för mycket) (see how similar? ding=däng) :arrows:too much (that's the only explanation for why I can understand Yorkshire-talk and I'm sticking wif it)

[N.O.T]

Yeah but youse way down in Kent....and Kentish is a much older variation of what is basiclly the same language as all the boys north of ''The Angle'' speak...
Now if you wuz from up in the Norf-east where Lundis and Pelle's great great great great Grandfathers came and had their holdiday homes then you'd understand those nordic languages like that (snap).

Remember Harald? 1066 and all that? Know the history? Just before he fought his cousin William from Normandy (get it? Nor Man---where do ya think they came from?) what was Harald doing?
Harold Godwinson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Godwinson) har to run up Norf and fight Haraldr Sigurðarson....also know as Hardrada (harðráði, which today would be Hård råd or Hard advice meaning a hard man..

What I'm saying is you ought to understand Norwegian and Swedish cause they were at some point the same gang as the Angles some of which wander off Westward and settled in Kent, some wander off to the North and became Danes, Swedes and Norskies...And then some started making ''visits'' to all the coasts of Europe and the British Isles and when they got tired of commuting to work, some settled down in the Norf-east, the coasts of Scotland and ireland, so many settled in the West of France they re-named it after them as Norman-dy.

So Yorkshire dialect is just a variation of West Norse and should be easy to understand all these other dialects..

I mean I can and I'm just some old knucklehead moto-cross guy whose head was dinged
(fick däng för mycket) (see how similar? ding=däng) :arrows:too much (that's the only explanation for why I can understand Yorkshire-talk and I'm sticking wif it)

http://i.imgur.com/q5rZ8xs.gif

[dimviii]

ahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahah!!!

[Lundefaret]

Meaning what? My english isn´t that good...

Piech

[AL14]

What the hell is going on here? :eek:

[Lundefaret]

What the hell is going on here? :eek:

Just Your average conspiracy :)

[Mk2 RS2000]

What the hell is going on here? :eek:

A demonstration as to why an number of English and Scandinavians both sound as though they are as thick as two short planks.

[AndyRAC]

Staying on the current topic; today in 1066 Harold defeated Hadrada & Tostig at Stamford Bridge, York......

[AL14]

Read rumors in an italian magazine about possible changes to rally2. Drivers who will use it could not be anymore first on the road...
There are no sources so we should take it as it is.
I hope it will not happen actually but if it is true I'm going to the supermarket to buy a big bag of popcorn and enjoy the reactions, or better, THE reaction. :)