[WRC] News & rumours (part III)

[Barreis]

Can it be worse?!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Or for VW to continue out spending everyone and develop the aero and electric diffs even more.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJoCqDVWsAAWDK5.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The Yaris will be wider then its length :-) :-) :-)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJoCqFCWcAEpSjC.jpg

[OldF]

By the way I guess that with 36 mm restictor they shall be able to reach more than 380 Hp. It's 19% of air more. If current WRC cars have let's say 340 Hp (I don't know) it shall bring around 400 Hp.

I agree with that. I think that about 10-20 hp can always be added to these official numbers. If the power is now 340 hp, it will be quite exactly 405 hp with 36 mm restrictor. This would be similar what the group A cars had in the beginning of 90’s.:)

They didn’t increase the boost so no increase in torque, at least much. The revs will increase.

[danon]

WRC 2017 -> https://www.facebook.com/RallyChePassione?directed_target_id=0

https://scontent-ams2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11742843_10153150659333952_1357080864662157352_n.j pg?oh=e3bfcbf85b6d81894e249fe5fcd6deef&oe=562066F3

[Eli]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/media/podcasts/page/114--80--.html live regroup from today

[bassist]

I like the direction the new rules are taking...

We are at an era where everything is safer and we have a far better understanding of how everything works, now is the correct era to move things towards more power in rallying...

It is time to have a revival of the group B way of thinking simply because it will be safer now, and send those useless F1 sport made of ladyboys and overweight hamburger fans back to the abyss of motorsport where they belong.

With you here N.O.T., lets just hope the `Spectator` Issue can be improved.

[RS]

Or for VW to continue out spending everyone and develop the aero and electric diffs even more.

Yes.. I'm not convinced these new rules are a great idea.

As has already been pointed out, WRC has been going through a good phase of attracting new manufacturers. Personally I find the current cars quite spectacular (much better than the Focus2 era cars).

Why change a good thing for something that is likely to cost more and possibly be less spectacular?

I think they should focus on the marketing and tv side of the sport instead. The live stuff we have now on every event is a major step forward but it is only on pay-tv. That's only going to attract the die-hard fans.

[tommeke_B]

Just a bigger restrictor would have been enough in my opinion, and it would have been something that could be applied to the older privateer WRC cars as well. I liked the cars with the mechanical diffs (S2000 and WRC 1.6T) much more than the last 2L WRC's with the more sophisticated diffs...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Positive response from the drivers will be a good sign. Ogier has given his approval, will be interesting to hear what others say...

Reigning world champion Sébastien Ogier was delighted with the new proposals.
“As a racing driver you are always looking for more performance. I think the larger wing and new aerodynamics will give the car a bit more downforce, more grip and more speed going into the corners. “This is also good for the show, because the extra power will definitely make the driving more spectacular for the fans. And it will also make the car look a bit more aggressive with a wider body,” he said.

[PLuto]

I must say that in last months I have usually opposite opinion than Ogier... I think that this new rules will not help to this sport...

[Francis44]

http://m.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119978/meeke-citroen-future-in-jeopardy

Meeke might get the boot if he does not improve.

[b3637853]

http://m.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119978/meeke-citroen-future-in-jeopardy

Meeke might get the boot if he does not improve.

I thought that he'll get the confidence after Argentina win and 4th place in Portugal later. I don't understand though why Matton doesn't say anything about Ostberg who doesn't have the speed and is just collecting points.
Talking about pure facts, Chris had 4 podiums last year so Matton probably expects something more from him and he's not getting any younger.
Anyway I hope he will stay fo at least one more year, I think he can deliver great results.

[EightGear]

So who does Matton want to put in Meeke's place? Lefebvre isn't ready.

[rallyfiend]

So who does Matton want to put in Meeke's place? Lefebvre isn't ready.

Loeb.

[EightGear]

Surely Loeb doesn't want to be in WRC full time again?

[b3637853]

During yesterday's WTCC round Matton asked about Loeb answered that he was misunderstood. He said thaht if Loeb wants more WRC round it is possible. There is no chance for Loeb doing full season as he wants to stay in WTCC at least one more year and maybe 2017 as well.

[RS]

I get the impression that Matton (mistakenly) thinks the DS3 is capable of taking on VW.

Loeb is a great driver but he is not the future and i doubt even he could take on Ogier in the Polo.

I think they should concentrate on the 2017 car and bringing on new drivers.

[AL14]

I think Matton (and many of us) wants Loeb back for a full program actually and he is trying to introduce his request asking him to come back for some rallies but I think his main aim is to have him full time.

I agree though that it is nearly impossible. I'm sure Loeb would like to come back but knows well that it would ruin his image and his status of best rally driver ever.

As for Meeke, Matton's words sound too harsh. But at a certain point Meeke should stand up and "grow a pair". From the first moment Kris entered inside a DS3, Citroen has not treated him like he deserves in my opinion.

I think he should tell Mr Matton to shut his mouth and thank him for making Citroen seems faster than it actually is.

[jacko]

As for Meeke, Matton's words sound too harsh. But at a certain point Meeke should stand up and "grow a pair". From the first moment Kris entered inside a DS3, Citroen has not treated him like he deserves in my opinion.

I think he should tell Mr Matton to shut his mouth and thank him for making Citroen seems faster than it actually is.

Well, reading those words of Matton what is wrong about it? Meeke destroyed indeed the goodwill after two big mistakes. Yes, Meeke is one of the fastest drivers outhere besides Neuville and Tanak (and the VW-boys offcorse) and you can asked which driver would be a better solution for 2016 but i think Meeke still has to deliver and nowadays Citroën Racing isn't happy enough looking to the results and i agree on that. The car is good and fast enough and the differences between the four car's isn't that really big.
But it's good Matton is heating up the pressure for Meeke and Matton doesn't speak about Ostberg because i think it's all clear he would be replaced by someone else so why bother anymore.

[Barreis]

It seems that Matton doesn't have a quality as a boss as his predecessors...

[AL14]

Well, reading those words of Matton what is wrong about it? Meeke destroyed indeed the goodwill after two big mistakes. Yes, Meeke is one of the fastest drivers outhere besides Neuville and Tanak (and the VW-boys offcorse) and you can asked which driver would be a better solution for 2016 but i think Meeke still has to deliver and nowadays Citroën Racing isn't happy enough looking to the results and i agree on that. The car is good and fast enough and the differences between the four car's isn't that really big.
But it's good Matton is heating up the pressure for Meeke and Matton doesn't speak about Ostberg because i think it's all clear he would be replaced by someone else so why bother anymore.

You're not wrong jacko. It is true what you say about Meeke but it seems Matton wants to turn him in a new Loeb and as a team manager he has to understand the limits of his drivers and those of all the drivers in the field that could replace them. Maybe Meeke is someone that need this kind of treatment to give his best. Who knows? But as RS said it is better for him to concentrate to build a winning car. Maybe, maybe, with that, his drivers will not be forced to drive over the limit all the weekends to bring home results.

[MJW]

So who does Matton want to put in Meeke's place? Lefebvre isn't ready.

Maybe Citroen take Tanak or sign Paddon?

[christy but]

I thnk matton should not have gone public with this ..just keep it between himself and kris..putting it out in public just heaps pressure on a driver with questions left right and center from media..not a good move from matton

[EstWRC]

Paddon it could be because Sordo has a contract for 2016 too and he cant move up in the Hyundai team. Tänak will stay in M-sport i think, although Matton last year wanted to talk to Tänak but he had already been signed for M-sport by that time.

How quickly the win has been forgotten? After Argentina win Matton said it was worth the wait and pain and now he is pissed off again.

[EightGear]

Maybe it could be Paddon indeed, didn't he have an offer on the table for 2015 already? Maybe then Hyundai can make Abbring their 3rd driver, but I don't think they want to lose Paddon just when he's starting to show speed.

[Simmi]

Basically if you're not VW you're looking for a driver who can put himself in a position to win if VW self-destruct on a rally.

Meeke at least puts you in position to do that. He can grab a few podiums and other headlines here and there. I'm not really sure what else is left after that? How big of a deal is it to Citroen where they come in the manufacturers when they start the year without a chance of winning? I genuinely don't know the answer to that. There certainly isn't the money that F1 teams scrabble over.

I think Ostberg has hit his ceiling. Tanak to me is a slightly less refined version of Meeke. Paddon has started to become quite intriguing. But really you can move these drivers around between teams and I don't think it will make much difference. It's like musical chairs but I don't think there is some magic combination that is going to suddenly unseat Ogier.

For any big movement I think we need to wait until 2017 and just hope that Citroen are still around.

[jacko]

I thnk matton should not have gone public with this ..just keep it between himself and kris..putting it out in public just heaps pressure on a driver with questions left right and center from media..not a good move from matton

Fully agree on that! To go on public to attack your driver(s)... How much i agree with it, you much keep in internal, everyone knows the situation Citroën can't be happy in general. But they made mistakes by themselves to become in this situation after Loeb retired, Citroën let go Neuville, they could still have Sordo as a tarmac-specialist and they could have put Meeke earlier on in the DS3, specially after his very good performance in Finland 2013.

And further on i agree fully that you can put Paddon in a Citroën DS3 or Neuville in a Ford (for examples) but in general i don't think eitherwe will see a different season like this year (and the previous years). Ogier is simple too fast and his main competition will come from Mikkelsen next season. And from 2017 (with also the new cars), well hopefully Tanak, Neuville, Paddon, Lappi, Tidemand, Abbring, Mikkelsen and (let's not forget) Latvala will then become a real threat for Ogier.

[dimviii]

But really you can move these drivers around between teams and I don't think it will make much difference.


very well said.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

http://cdn.images.autosport.com/editorial/1436560493.jpg

This is an appalling illustration, I cant believe WRC.com allowed it on the site !

Heard someone the other day say this looked like a modern-day Metro 6R4... :laugh:

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Re Meeke - Matton's comments definitely should not have been made in public.

No driver crashes on purpose and there was no need to heap such pressure on Meeke by being so publicly critical. Matton should know better and realise that it will not make him perform any better knowing his Citroen career is on the line.

And at least Meeke has been trying to win, unlike his team-mate who just picks up the leftovers when others have problems.

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119988 Kubica to decide if he stays or goes

[Andre Oliveira]

After Mr. Wilson said the the current Fiesta suits well to Neuville :roll:

Now, Matton said that is best driver have to improve, if not, goes out.

Well, my opinion is that the difference between cars is not so big. Ogier would win on Ford, Citroën, Hyundai, Toyota,... like Loeb in his time.

One rule that could change is the manufacter points system. No nominated drivers. Could enter the specialists like Panizzi's time. The two best positionated drivers score... simple!

[Eli]

After Mr. Wilson said the the current Fiesta suits well to Neuville :roll:

Now, Matton said that is best driver have to improve, if not, goes out.

Well, my opinion is that the difference between cars is not so big. Ogier would win on Ford, Citroën, Hyundai, Toyota,... like Loeb in his time.

One rule that could change is the manufacter points system. No nominated drivers. Could enter the specialists like Panizzi's time. The two best positionated drivers score... simple!
and perhaps change it back to top 8 score with 10 points for the win to make it a bit closer and easier to calculate for how long we have to wait until Ogier can win the title

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Re Meeke - Matton's comments definitely should not have been made in public.

No driver crashes on purpose and there was no need to heap such pressure on Meeke by being so publicly critical. Matton should know better and realise that it will not make him perform any better knowing his Citroen career is on the line.

And at least Meeke has been trying to win, unlike his team-mate who just picks up the leftovers when others have problems.

And Citroen's main problems are:
1. They can't move on from Loeb (it costs Ogier & Neuville)
2. Matton didn't had the same charisma as Frequelin

[N.O.T]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119988 Kubica to decide if he stays or goes

he should go.

[RAS007]

http://cdn.images.autosport.com/editorial/1436560493.jpg

This is an appalling illustration, I cant believe WRC.com allowed it on the site !

Heard someone the other day say this looked like a modern-day Metro 6R4... :laugh:


Agreed. And, wrc.com is the last place anyone should go to find out information about the WRC.

[jacko]

he should go.
I prefer you should go..

[OldF]

It seems that Jari-Matti is safe for at least next year.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119997?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

"There is no question about his place in this team for this year and next.
"He has a contract for next season and if he didn't I would make one with him now.":D

[OldF]

http://www.fia.com/news/new-regulations-coming-2017-world-rally-car

“Yves Matton, Director of Citroën Racing, said: “We are very excited with the new look of the world rally car from 2017. It is difficult for us to say if we will commit to this Championship at that time, but all I can say is that the cars will look absolutely amazing.”

I think Citroen must make a decision very soon where they want to be (WRC or/and WTCC) in 2017 if they want to have their car ready (for WRC) in time before the 2017 season.

[RS]

It seems that Jari-Matti is safe for at least next year.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119997?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

"There is no question about his place in this team for this year and next.
"He has a contract for next season and if he didn't I would make one with him now.":D

Latvala has been very lucky to have had some extremely patient team bosses over the years. I guess being a nice guy does help sometimes.

[Andre Oliveira]

Because Latvala is the second best driver available ;)

[N.O.T]

Latvala has been very lucky to have had some extremely patient team bosses over the years. I guess being a nice guy does help sometimes.

and probably a dad with deep pockets to soothe some team bosses when needed...

[Rally Power]

Re Meeke - Matton's comments definitely should not have been made in public.

No driver crashes on purpose and there was no need to heap such pressure on Meeke by being so publicly critical. Matton should know better and realise that it will not make him perform any better knowing his Citroen career is on the line.


Why such a fuss over Matton's words?

Capito made similar remarks to Latvala before his Portugal win and Wilson has inumerous times comment Tanak inconsistency and he was able to improve, getting a brilliant podium in Poland!

It would be nice to see Kris affected by Matton pressure in a positive way: delivering results proportional to his great talent.

I believe that's what he'll probably do!

[A FONDO]

Latvala has been very lucky to have had some extremely patient team bosses over the years. I guess being a nice guy does help sometimes.

And most of all because of his highly influential manager

[AL14]

Maybe also because he is a 13 wrc rallys winner? And can be unbeatable when he is in his day?

[liposh]

Maybe also because he is a 13 wrc rallys winner? And can be unbeatable when he is in his day?

It is past. I am thinking what else should I write, but it says it all. Strong Latvala is past. And in my opinion it will never return. Sad but that is life.

[N.O.T]

strong Latvala ?? when was that ?? what did i miss ??

The guy has the mentality of a 12 year old... he can win a few events but that is that.

[stefanvv]

Latvala can be easily at podium at each rally of the championship ATM.... if this is his goal. VW though don't have problem with that..... I don't know what his goal is, for championship title it seems impossible. May be it is frustrating, but that's life indeed.....

PS: he should just enjoy his rallies and that sums it up.....

[Rallyper]

Latvala is not the only one chasing Seb so much that they often going off instead of being consistent. It´s not easy for anyone atm having Mr Ogier in such pace.
There are a few more lads having similar problems. Call it mental and yes it is. Meeke, Neuville, Ostberg, Tanak ....

[stefanvv]

May be we should draw Neuville out of the equation for this championship. Probably '16 with the new Hyundai will be his year.....

[N.O.T]

Neuville should focus on being faster than his part time team mate first... then look for challenging for the title.

Neuville is taking steps backwards at the moment in his career and the unemployment office is close.

[stefanvv]

This championship was all over after Mexico. Drivers should think of the next.....

[N.O.T]

This championship was all over after Mexico. Drivers should think of the next.....

you should not do this to yourself...

[stefanvv]

you should not do this to yourself...

Don't worry about me, I'm ok with the championship progress.....

[AL14]

It is past. I am thinking what else should I write, but it says it all. Strong Latvala is past. And in my opinion it will never return. Sad but that is life.

I suspected the same thing since his off in Sweden.
That is past you say but people here was referring to the past so I answered referring to it. At the moment he is the ideal for VW that has already Ogier winning championship. I'll never stop hoping that he may change but my rational side knows that it is nearly impossible.

[Ounin]

And most of all because of his highly influential manager



I don't think so, on WRC Car Manufacturer level, a manager is less important than the goals the manufacturer has forecasted on short and long terms, they are the leaders of the negotiations. Do you think the general board of VAG, Toyota or Hyundai is interested in a manager...??? "Mister VAG, we have talked to Mr Jouhki and he says that we have to keep Latvala for '16..." No way, if that would be the case FIA WRC is a hobby club for children. And: in Motorsport contracts don't matter at all, if they there is a WRC ready Lappi or a Tidemand available , Latvala is exit very easily.

[tommeke_B]

I don't think VW will let Latvala go, mainly because he could be a threat for them if he joins Toyota or Ford (again). If Latvala has some time that everything goes right, he is as quick as Ogier, if not quicker.

[Leon]

I don't think VW will let Latvala go, mainly because he could be a threat for them if he joins Toyota or Ford (again). If Latvala has some time that everything goes right, he is as quick as Ogier, if not quicker.

what kind of thread? for sporadic wins when he has the "feeling"?

[AP-Racing]

you should not do this to yourself...

Without SebLo no intrigue in WRC

[Allyc85]

I don't think VW will let Latvala go, mainly because he could be a threat for them if he joins Toyota or Ford (again). If Latvala has some time that everything goes right, he is as quick as Ogier, if not quicker.

Do you really think after all these years Latvala will suddenly learn to be a consistent threat?

[the sniper]

Do you really think after all these years Latvala will suddenly learn to be a consistent threat?

Maybe not consistent threat, but if he happens across the right set up, you have a rally without too many early morning stages, the wind is blowing in the right direction, a fortune teller tells him that he's going to be alright and what ever team he goes to gets a feng shui expert to arrange the motorhome, he could beat Ogier. If you were VW, why would you open the door for this possibility when there realistically isn't a much better option available for them to fill his seat?

[Simmi]

Agreed. He's one of the few guys who can go toe to toe with Ogier on a good day. Yet he's the perfect number 2 driver. Ogier knows he has the complete measure of him across the season. Zero intimidation from Latvala.

He will score you points. Honestly VW don't need to have an uber consistent second driver if they've got Ogier. And if his head ever completely falls off they can just switch in Mikkelsen for a round or two. The manufacturer title will fall into their lap regardless.

On the flipside - if Latvala does ever want to further his career he either needs to leave VW to try and shake things up. Either that or wait for Ogier to leave. Which may or may not happen.

[stefanvv]

On the flipside - if Latvala does ever want to further his career he either needs to leave VW to try and shake things up. Either that or wait for Ogier to leave. Which may or may not happen.

Honestly I believe VW is perfect for him right now. He only have to wait for his "moments", not being too eager to win everything at all cost. I'm not sure he can handle kind of team leader position in another team, but I might be wrong of course....

[cali]

Agreed. He's one of the few guys who can go toe to toe with Ogier on a good day. Yet he's the perfect number 2 driver. Ogier knows he has the complete measure of him across the season. Zero intimidation from Latvala.

He will score you points. Honestly VW don't need to have an uber consistent second driver if they've got Ogier. And if his head ever completely falls off they can just switch in Mikkelsen for a round or two. The manufacturer title will fall into their lap regardless.

On the flipside - if Latvala does ever want to further his career he either needs to leave VW to try and shake things up. Either that or wait for Ogier to leave. Which may or may not happen.

Totally disagree with you, just look at the drivers standings at the moment - Mikkelsen is leading Latvala by 17 points and has not scored on only once when Latvala, VW's no. 2 driver, has not scored 3 times! He is too inconsistent to be a perfect points scorer IMHO. He's fast but just can't stand the pressure.

[AL14]

I think the crash in Sweden this year has been a turning point of his career.
Latvala did a very good 2014. After portugal he had 29 points to Ogier and he arrived in Spain with almost the same gap. Despite the usual stupid mistakes (Germany especially) he had finally improved, made a step more both in the mental side and in the driving (last year was clearly smoother).

This year he had high expectations because when you make a step ahead you are looking make another one and that other step maybe would have allowed him to accomplish his dream.
That off in Sweden was the end of that. Without it he could have been leading the event. He worked very very hard with his mental trainer and with the car and after 2 rounds he was at the same point as before.

That is not easy to swallow and now it is difficult, if not impossible, to come back like he was in 2014 knowing that in that case it won't be enough either.
In the last rallys I saw him a bit surrend-ish. I think inside him he knows Ogier is too strong. Let's see if he can work it out but it is very difficult and time is not on his side anymore.

[Simmi]

Totally disagree with you, just look at the drivers standings at the moment - Mikkelsen is leading Latvala by 17 points and has not scored on only once when Latvala, VW's no. 2 driver, has not scored 3 times! He is too inconsistent to be a perfect points scorer IMHO. He's fast but just can't stand the pressure.

I never said Latvala is a perfect points scorer - I said he's the perfect number 2 driver for VW/Ogier right now. When you have the dominant car/driver combination like VW do then why would you rock the boat? Jari can have a mediocre year and they will still pick up the manufacturers title.

If they actually had to fight for it then some of his results this year would be an issue. I stand by everything I said in my previous post.

[tommeke_B]

Jarkko Nikara is replacing Jari Ketomaa with the DMack Fiesta R5 in Finland, according to rumors. Anyone can confirm? Looks like great news!

[rallyfiend]

Jarkko Nikara is replacing Jari Ketomaa with the DMack Fiesta R5 in Finland, according to rumors. Anyone can confirm? Looks like great news!

Its been on the front page of WRC.com for a few hours now..

That's hardly a 'rumour'....

[tommeke_B]

Its been on the front page of WRC.com for a few hours now..

That's hardly a 'rumour'....

Great! Not following WRC.com as mostly their "news" is no news. ,)

[RS]

I never said Latvala is a perfect points scorer - I said he's the perfect number 2 driver for VW/Ogier right now. When you have the dominant car/driver combination like VW do then why would you rock the boat? Jari can have a mediocre year and they will still pick up the manufacturers title.


But so they would with Mikelssen too.

The disappointing thing about Poland was that he was slower than Mikelssen, and then he crashed.

[dimviii]

Rally Paradise ‏@rallyparadise
Tommi Mäkinen says that #Toyota #WRC will need 3 high-level drivers. #WRC2017 rules are changing & there will be 3 points scoring drivers...

[N.O.T]

if what he means is that just the top 3 will get points then i think it is retarded... but i also think that with the current points systems too many worthless tourists of nothingness get points.

I think returning to the old top six and 10-6-4-3-2-1 system is best for now especially if they keep superrally.

[stefanvv]

Rally Paradise ‏@rallyparadise
Tommi Mäkinen says that #Toyota #WRC will need 3 high-level drivers. #WRC2017 rules are changing & there will be 3 points scoring drivers...

I hope then they'll get rid of Rally2 as well....

[EightGear]

if what he means is that just the top 3 will get points then i think it is retarded... but i also think that with the current points systems too many worthless tourists of nothingness get points.

I think returning to the old top six and 10-6-4-3-2-1 system is best for now especially if they keep superrally.
No way, 3 drivers per team probably.

[RS]

Top 2 from each manufacturer to score could make sense.

[N.O.T]

top 2 from each manufacturer will give an extra edge to the big money teams though.

[RS]

top 2 from each manufacturer will give an extra edge to the big money teams though.

On the other hand if it forces teams to run three decent drivers it will mean better entry lists for us.

[Andre Oliveira]

Really great news. They will allow the specialists like Panizzi time

[rallyfiend]

Really great news. They will allow the specialists like Panizzi time

They can do that now, if they want.

Only one of the drivers is in a Manufacturer Team is fixed, the other can circulate as they see fit. Who has done that so far?

[EightGear]

They can do that now, if they want.

Only one of the drivers is in a Manufacturer Team is fixed, the other can circulate as they see fit. Who has done that so far?

In some way Hyundai did something like that last year.

[kirungi okwogera]

In some way Hyundai did something like that last year.

Didn't Hyundai do it this year bringing Hayden Paddon up in Sordo's place when he was injured? Or do you mean actually basing team strategy around substituting surface/local specialists on certain events?

[EightGear]

Didn't Hyundai do it this year bringing Hayden Paddon up in Sordo's place when he was injured? Or do you mean actually basing team strategy around substituting surface/local specialists on certain events?
No, this year in Sweden it was down to circumstances. Last year they rotated mainly between Sordo and Hanninen. Atkinson also got some rounds.

And yes, with surfaces etc. in mind. Hanninen in Sweden and Wales for example, Sordo on tarmac.

[Andre Oliveira]

But needed pre nomination. It is different have f.e. Ogier - Latvala - Mikkelsen, and if Ogier out, Latvala wins and Mikkelsen second scores 1-2 for Volkswagen Motorsport, instead only Latvala points.

[Eli]

http://www.maxrally.com/2015/07/23/is-britain-facing-a-china-crisis are they serious???? kicking out Wales Rally GB for China?????????? what's wrong with them???

[stefanvv]

what's wrong with them???

everything

[Simmi]

Seems to me like Rally France (in whatever format) is the most at risk of the four. Wales GB has funding in place going forward. It's the complete opposite with the FFSA.

With Toyota coming in it could be a good time to open discussions with the manufacturers about an extension to 14 rounds. Plus this is all assuming China can even get their round ready for 2016.

[stefanvv]

Seems to me like Rally France (in whatever format) is the most at risk of the four. Wales GB has funding in place going forward. It's the complete opposite with the FFSA.

With Toyota coming in it could be a good time to open discussions with the manufacturers about an extension to 14 rounds. Plus this is all assuming China can even get their round ready for 2016.

I would agree about France. Though there is the origin of the sport, it is quite disappointing as WRC round, especially ran in Alsace recent years. I don't know how Corsica will happen this year, but I don't feed high hopes. Vote up for more rounds though, China or Japan, may be I prefer Japan.....

[Jack4688`]

http://www.maxrally.com/2015/07/23/is-britain-facing-a-china-crisis are they serious???? kicking out Wales Rally GB for China?????????? what's wrong with them???

At this stage I don't even care any more. For me the WRC is like F1 - I like the concept of it, but there is just too much about it that is done poorly.

I'm not interested in the type of cars that are used, the technical side of the current WRC cars, the rallies that have been lost to shit ones like Sardinia etc. the fact that the drivers don't give you the same sense from between 1990 until about 2003 that you were watching the best drivers in the world (think Auriol, Kankkunen, Gronholm Makinen, Sainz, young McRae, Burns, young Solberg), the poor TV coverage - endless chopper views and frustrating onboard views. This insistence that the WRC needs to be about the miserable cars and markets where the manufacturers sell them instead of brilliant cars tearing through forests and alpine passes while making un-godly noises.

They could replace Monte Carlo, GB and Finland with China, Jordan and Antarctica. They could reduce the minimum length of the cars even further so that the cars used are the VW Up, Ford Ka, Citroen C1 and Toyota Aygo. They could implement all those insane ideas Jost Capito scribbled on his toilet paper. I wouldn't care because they're just shooting a dead horse at this point.

[stefanvv]

At this stage I don't even care any more. For me the WRC is like F1 - I like the concept of it, but there is just too much about it that is done poorly.

I'm not interested in the type of cars that are used, the technical side of the current WRC cars, the rallies that have been lost to shit ones like Sardinia etc. the fact that the drivers don't give you the same sense from between 1990 until about 2003 that you were watching the best drivers in the world (think Auriol, Kankkunen, Gronholm Makinen, Sainz, young McRae, Burns, young Solberg), the poor TV coverage - endless chopper views and frustrating onboard views. This insistence that the WRC needs to be about the miserable cars and markets where the manufacturers sell them instead of brilliant cars tearing through forests and alpine passes while making un-godly noises.

They could replace Monte Carlo, GB and Finland with China, Jordan and Antarctica. They could reduce the minimum length of the cars even further so that the cars used are the VW Up, Ford Ka, Citroen C1 and Toyota Aygo. They could implement all those insane ideas Jost Capito scribbled on his toilet paper. I wouldn't care because they're just shooting a dead horse at this point.

It's not that much for a despair, we still could have nice photos with lakes and/or flowers, ahahah..... well, not from Jordan anyway.....

[AL14]

I like actual format and new regilations. I just prefer to have more variety for each rally. If there are not 5 world Champions running the same year is not promoter's fault. With WRC+ coverage is excellent and with new regulations there will be more different, bigger and faster cars. And yes, China should be in the Championship, it has always been a business for manufacturers, in China there are billions of people and some of them are becoming rich opening new markets. Of course it would be a shame if Wales will lose its round let's hope it won't happen but one should lose it. We have to move on, 90s are 20 years ago. The world is completely different now. The only same thing is that rally is not even comparable with f1

[makinen_fan]

Going to China may be a bit tricky though in terms of following the event live as we do now!
Remember that the majority of live coverage at the moment, apart from WRC+, goes through Twitter, facebook, YouTube. All of these are banned in China (they have their own version of these)!! How will the teams communicate the results in real time? Just wait until Monday? Or use illegal VPN to bypass the banned websites?
It will be like an event back in the early 2000 with just live radio (that also rely heavily on twitter for info source now) and live results pages (if and when they work...) You know what it means to rely on wrc.com and TV coverage for information of what happened in the rally... we will miss 99% of what was going on.

Another thing that comes to mind. An onboard video with Kopecky, 2 years ago, from the Chinese APRC round. During a 14min stage I counted less than 20 spectators...

[shaitan]

Going to China may be a bit tricky though in terms of following the event live as we do now!
Remember that the majority of live coverage at the moment, apart from WRC+, goes through Twitter, facebook, YouTube. All of these are banned in China (they have their own version of these)!! How will the teams communicate the results in real time? Just wait until Monday? Or use illegal VPN to bypass the banned websites?
It will be like an event back in the early 2000 with just live radio (that also rely heavily on twitter for info source now) and live results pages (if and when they work...) You know what it means to rely on wrc.com and TV coverage for information of what happened in the rally... we will miss 99% of what was going on.

Another thing that comes to mind. An onboard video with Kopecky, 2 years ago, from the Chinese APRC round. During a 14min stage I counted less than 20 spectators...

You are right in most cases like race live message.

But It will not a problem if no one come to the stage watching the race. VW/Hyundai/Citroen will give them all on PR of marketing side, like TV advertisement, Chinese SNS.

In China most people do not care about live sport(include F1/tennis), the most effective way is social network and advertisement.

In another way, APRC and the other Chinese local race was not promote at same level as other races.

It is clear China race may not be a good WRC race round, but definitely it will be a huge promotion event for the manufactures, FIA and car makers love to see it.

[AL14]

You are right in most cases like race live message.

But It will not a problem if no one come to the stage watching the race. VW/Hyundai/Citroen will give them all on PR of marketing side, like TV advertisement, Chinese SNS.

In China most people do not care about live sport(include F1/tennis), the most effective way is social network and advertisement.

In another way, APRC and the other Chinese local race was not promote at same level as other races.

It is clear China race may not be a good WRC race round, but definitely it will be a huge promotion event for the manufactures, FIA and car makers love to see it.

We will have this round. Manufacturers and FIA want it. As for twitter and social media, there is no problem actually. They can easily communicate their message to people in Europe and then it will be twitted. The only issue is that it will happen 2/3 minutes later than usual. :)

[shaitan]

We will have this round. Manufacturers and FIA want it. As for twitter and social media, there is no problem actually. They can easily communicate their message to people in Europe and then it will be twitted. The only issue is that it will happen 2/3 minutes later than usual. :)
Sometimes fans complain too much.

For several manufactures China market is the only way to survive.

[pantealex]

Going to China may be a bit tricky though in terms of following the event live as we do now!
Remember that the majority of live coverage at the moment, apart from WRC+, goes through Twitter, facebook, YouTube. All of these are banned in China (they have their own version of these)!! How will the teams communicate the results in real time? Just wait until Monday? Or use illegal VPN to bypass the banned websites?
It will be like an event back in the early 2000 with just live radio (that also rely heavily on twitter for info source now) and live results pages (if and when they work...) You know what it means to rely on wrc.com and TV coverage for information of what happened in the rally... we will miss 99% of what was going on.

F1 has race in China, no problems with live coverage or social media...

[rallyfiend]

At this stage I don't even care any more. For me the WRC is like F1 - I like the concept of it, but there is just too much about it that is done poorly.

I'm not interested in the type of cars that are used, the technical side of the current WRC cars, the rallies that have been lost to shit ones like Sardinia etc. the fact that the drivers don't give you the same sense from between 1990 until about 2003 that you were watching the best drivers in the world (think Auriol, Kankkunen, Gronholm Makinen, Sainz, young McRae, Burns, young Solberg), the poor TV coverage - endless chopper views and frustrating onboard views. This insistence that the WRC needs to be about the miserable cars and markets where the manufacturers sell them instead of brilliant cars tearing through forests and alpine passes while making un-godly noises.

They could replace Monte Carlo, GB and Finland with China, Jordan and Antarctica. They could reduce the minimum length of the cars even further so that the cars used are the VW Up, Ford Ka, Citroen C1 and Toyota Aygo. They could implement all those insane ideas Jost Capito scribbled on his toilet paper. I wouldn't care because they're just shooting a dead horse at this point.

And yet here you are, taking time out of your day to make very specific and informed comments on a WRC forum about a Championship you supposedly don't care about...

[AndyRAC]

I fully expect China to be included. F1 and WEC go there and there were no issues with social media, etc
Which event gets dropped I have no idea. Would they drop Corsica? Yes, they’ve done it before. The FFSA even held their WRC round in Alsace.

RallyGB – possibly, but talk of it being a ‘classic’ is wrong. It was a ‘classic’ when it was the RAC, now it’s just another identikit WRC event – like the rest of them. We get told the UK is an important market but 99% of the population will be unaware when RallyGB is on. It receives very little mainstream coverage.

Rallye Deutschland – I can’t believe they’d drop it. The most important car market in Europe?

[Jack4688`]

And yet here you are, taking time out of your day to make very specific and informed comments on a WRC forum about a Championship you supposedly don't care about...

Exactly, that's cognitive dissonance for you. I don't care about the WRC and if it gets worse, yet I spent the best part of 15 minutes writing that.

[b3637853]

I fully expect China to be included. F1 and WEC go there and there were no issues with social media, etc
Which event gets dropped I have no idea. Would they drop Corsica? Yes, they’ve done it before. The FFSA even held their WRC round in Alsace.

RallyGB – possibly, but talk of it being a ‘classic’ is wrong. It was a ‘classic’ when it was the RAC, now it’s just another identikit WRC event – like the rest of them. We get told the UK is an important market but 99% of the population will be unaware when RallyGB is on. It receives very little mainstream coverage.

Rallye Deutschland – I can’t believe they’d drop it. The most important car market in Europe?

Perfect situation would be if China was added to the calendar. WRC needs to be more around the world than 3 rallies outside Europe. I would even add 15th round and it should be antoher tarmac rally (Ireland, Czech Republic or Japan maybe). But if FIA would have to replace round it should be one of bland gravel rallies, I think Sardegna or Portugal. Maybe Poland, but I really like how it is the only rally where we see who is fast and who is not. Poland kind of gave as an hierarchy of current drivers, so one rougn like this should be in calendar.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Poland OUT! PLEASE

[GigiGalliNo1]

and China IN!

[EstWRC]

worst suggestion ever. Mexico or Argentina out.

[EightGear]

worst suggestion ever. Mexico or Argentina out.


And still end up with only 3 events outside of Europe? Won't happen I think.

France can go, they already have the Monte.

[rallyfiend]

And still end up with only 3 events outside of Europe? Won't happen I think.

France can go, they already have the Monte.

Neither Argentina nor Mexico could go as they 'tick the box' for two continents - North and South America. I think to be classified as a world championship you need to hit 4 continents?

[bluuford]

It pretty clear that when China is in then Corsica will be thrown out, Only question is when? next year or year after that?. Half of the France is in bankrupcy and it is not practical to held two rounds in one country which economy struggles and carsales numbers are not very good and one more event on the island. Corsica is no longer what it used to be, so I do not see any major loss here, I do not see much "classic" left there either.

[Barreis]

Why not 14 event (with China) calendar?! Anyway sport is boring at the moment with/without China unfortunatelly...

[AL14]

If there are rallys in Italy and Portugal, where economy is even worse, France can host his own. They have Monte but they have also won the last 12 championship. I think France deserves his round more than others (and I'm not french).
Poland will stay there, or will be replaced by some other east Europe State like Estonia, not China.
Mexico should go in my opinion, there are always too less cars and it is not that spectacular. But it's the only north american round so he will probably stay.

BTW, the decisions are taken with money and with friendships. We have to find who is the more poor and less loved rally.

[TheFlyingTuga]

Hummm... I got the strangest feelling that I've seen this movie in 2001! In the end, the poor Rally Portugal will be out so a sup€r China can enter. Altought if their WRC Rally will be so good as the one that was in IRC...cof cof... God help us :S

[tommeke_B]

Poland OUT! PLEASE

What's your problem with Rally Poland? Yes, the organisation has a lot of work to do regarding safety and organisation... But the stages are great! The people are interested in the sport, they are travelling big distances inside the country to see the event. And in all national news during the event it's one of the main subjects in the national media (probably partly because of the Kubica-effect, but still). In Poland the WRC has a reason to be there.



and China IN!

Why have an event in a country where almost NOBODY cares about rallying, which is too far away for anyone else to visit, and which is too expensive to drive for privateers? Just because some high-ranked people who happen to work for the manufacturers want it, as it fits the theory they want to sell to the big bosses?

I like to visit events where you feel that rallying is alive, where people look forward to it all year long. In Sweden, Finland, Monte Carlo, Poland, but also in Sardinia last few years, the WRC event is the big thing. The market may be smaller but the impact you have on it is many times bigger. No point of having China on the calendar if nobody goes to watch it and if no local media spreads out much more about it than about a WRC round on the other side of the globe...

[Ifox95]

Circuit of Ireland should be in wrc !!!

[eestlane]

There are no "But's" when it comes to safety. I dont care how many fans there are in Poland. The organization is appaling and sooner or later something bad is going to happen which will only have a negative impact on the sport.

If you want good roads and good organisation then Rally Estonia should swap with Poland.

China is interesting but i would put Japan instead.

Maybe we should push the sport in the States. Its a big country that we are not using at all to promote the sport.

[AndyRAC]

Poland OUT! PLEASE

I'd keep Poland in, but return the event to Tarmac; to try and have more of a 50:50 split between surfaces. However, what happens when Kubica leaves the WRC?? Will there still be the passion for it??

[tommeke_B]

There are no "But's" when it comes to safety. I dont care how many fans there are in Poland. The organization is appaling and sooner or later something bad is going to happen which will only have a negative impact on the sport.

FIA doesn't care about safety or accidents with spectators that much. Proof is there with the regulations for future WRC cars... Cars will become much faster, crowds will grow, and safety measures will remain the same until something happens.

If Rally Poland would be organized with good marshalls in stead of using clueless teenagers, 80% of the dangerous situations would have been avoided. I agree that it's difficult to find enough reliable people to fill the whole stages, but for some critical places they should have seen it coming...

All in all Poland and Estonia are too similar to Finland in my opinion. I like the idea of AndyRAC, having a tarmac rally (or mixed) could put a unique event on the calendar. The profile of tarmac roads in Polish rallies is completely different compared to the ones currently in WRC (in ERC only Barum Rally is somewhat similar).

[Simmi]

The ideal scenario for a healthy championship is to combine a calendar of classic events with rallies in key/emerging markets.

The biggest problem for me is that the format of the rallies makes them effectively interchangeable anyway. The rally will still pan out the same way, regardless of where you place it.

I'd rather see less rounds but fully formed rallies that are encouraged to be unique and to actually provide a challenge. Not just force them into a watered-down, identikit format. But honestly beyond the fans and a few journalists there doesn't really seem to be desire from any other corner to make that happen.

[Mirek]

However, what happens when Kubica leaves the WRC?? Will there still be the passion for it??

Andy, Rajd Polski (Rally Poland) is second oldest rally in the world after Monte Carlo. Rallying is definitely a lot more popular in Poland than in some WRC countries like Germany for example.

[ZoomanSP206]

All this talk about the manufacturers requesting a WRC round in China to have increased media coverage and eventually better sales in this apparently booming market made me wonder: How important is it for an event to take place in a specific country to boost sales in this country?
After all, it's just a three day event, occurring once per year, whereas the whole championship season goes on for about 11 months. I would have thought that overall media coverage over the year, resulting in repeated exposure to the viewer/reader, might be more important, and less in which country the most recent round was held. Obviously, we don't have (recent) information on that for China, but are there any studies for other countries? Or as a proxy, since that seems to be important at least for Citroën, about the impact of the WTCC round in China on Chinese coverage and sales in comparison to other WTCC rounds?

[Mirek]

How important is it for an event to take place in a specific country to boost sales in this country?

In my opinion WRC will hardly be popular in China without Chinese manufacturer and at best Chinese crew involved.

[AndyRAC]

Andy, Rajd Polski (Rally Poland) is second oldest rally in the world after Monte Carlo. Rallying is definitely a lot more popular in Poland than in some WRC countries like Germany for example.

Yes, I know; I meant, will the sponsors still want to back a WRC round without Kubica there? He seems to have helped sponsors throw their weight/ money behind the event getting back into the WRC. Notwithstanding the 2009 event.

[Francis44]

Unfortunately I have seen this film already. They introduce a round in China, and after a couple of years both the promoters and teams will be dissapointed with visibility and organization, like Japan.

Then the same old european rounds will fight for there only spot back in.

[stefanvv]

How important is it for an event to take place in a specific country to boost sales in this country?

That's a good question. PSA should already should have some calculations on how WTCC/Loeb influence has on the market. China is important for VW/Ford as well, but I guess they don't fight for survival as PSA do. Or they believe WRC will make more influence on the market than WTCC?

[Mirek]

That's a good question. PSA should already should have some calculations on how WTCC/Loeb influence has on the market. China is important for VW/Ford as well, but I guess they don't fight for survival as PSA do. Or they believe WRC will make more influence on the market than WTCC?

Matton commented for Belgian Auto-news that according to their marketing studies WRC is a lot more popular than WTCC. Only F1 is above WRC in terms of global popularity. PSA is disappointed with the WTCC.

[AL14]

I really can't understand what's the problem with China. Is it far? Far from where? Europe? We have 10 rounds here, and we are a dying continent. I think it is more than enough. Don't we want more attention to the sport? How about 1 billion and a half people that don't have a clue of what rally is and maybe if only the 0,01% of them will appreciate it they will attract more manufacturers, drivers and therefore more challenge?
Of course, hosting a round there is not enough, you need good promotion, good organization, better concept of the sport in general, but that's a start.

You want to come back to 90's? Find a time machine or move on to other solutions. Asia and Chine are, or at least can be, on of them in my opinion.

[stefanvv]

Here it is another puzzle - would a Japan round will make it more attractive to more Japan manufacturers to return to WRC? At least Mitsubishi & Subaru....

[AL14]

Japan is a crazy state, Tokyo is a metropolis and they have not house numbers. It's impossible to make a prevision when it comes to Japan.
Just kidding. :D

[stefanvv]

Japan is a crazy state, Tokyo is a metropolis and they have not house numbers. It's impossible to make a prevision when it comes to Japan.
Just kidding. :D

yes it is, but wrc had good times with them

[stefanvv]

I really can't understand what's the problem with China. Is it far? Far from where? Europe? We have 10 rounds here, and we are a dying continent. I think it is more than enough. Don't we want more attention to the sport? How about 1 billion and a half people that don't have a clue of what rally is and maybe if only the 0,01% of them will appreciate it they will attract more manufacturers, drivers and therefore more challenge?

I don't have problem for China round, just not on the expense of Wales GB, no matter how pale shadow it is of the "old" RAC rally. There should be more rounds, or just let Corsica go

[Jack4688`]

So there are 1.5 billion, or thereabouts, people in China, spread over the 3rd largest country by area. Agreed, if even a small percentage of that population has interest in motorsport that's still a large number, but how does that translate to a potential event in one small pocket of a huge country?

And what's better for the manufactuers to sell cars? Look, we won this event in your country.... buy our VW Lavida, which has very little tangible link with our Polo R WRC. Or would it be better to have the best rallies available (providing there was promotor interest and sufficient funding for such events) so they could say we won the toughest rally of the year while the others didn't get close to us.

I find it hard to imagine and event with an eager promotor and plenty of local and national funding like Wales would drop off the calendar anyway, more likely Tour de Corse won't have FFSA backing after this year to continue as a WRC level event.

[janvanvurpa]

I really can't understand what's the problem with China. Is it far? Far from where? Europe? We have 10 rounds here, and we are a dying continent. I think it is more than enough. Don't we want more attention to the sport? How about 1 billion and a half people that don't have a clue of what rally is and maybe if only the 0,01% of them will appreciate it they will attract more manufacturers, drivers and therefore more challenge?
Of course, hosting a round there is not enough, you need good promotion, good organization, better concept of the sport in general, but that's a start.

You want to come back to 90's? Find a time machine or move on to other solutions. Asia and Chine are, or at least can be, on of them in my opinion.

Hang on a second.. I have been going to China since 03 since i married my cutie pie wife and we go back cause her family loves me and the the 2 cutie pie girls so we go as often as we can. I happened to meet a guy who runs a tuning shop who it turned out was sponsoring 3-4 cars in the Chinese Rally Championship...So I asked more people and was really surprised how many guys under 35 have a reasonable clue of what the WRC is
Now generally some might come from the a guy described as "probably the world's most poplular blogger --popular on Wi-chat----just happens to be doing Chinese Rally Championship, some Asian Pacific rounds and in 09 WRC Australia
His name is Han Han or 韩寒 and i was reading some of his really quite sharp and thoughtful and critical books on life in China now and flipped the page to a hilarious faux-complaint about how pooor they must be in Australian when he went to drive WRC.
talk about surprise!

From wiki:

In May 2010, Han Han was named one of the most influential people in the world by Time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_%28magazine%29) magazine.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Han#cite_note-5) In September 2010, British magazine New Statesman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Statesman) listed Han Han at 48th place in the list of "The World's 50 Most Influential Figures 2010".[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Han#cite_note-htanna-6) In June 2010, Han Han was interviewed by CNN as China's rebel writer who has become the unofficial voice for his generation.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Han#cite_note-7)

After his experiences at the WRC Rally Australia in 2009, he wrote a blog post entitled Report on supervision and guidance work in preparation for the WRC in Australia (赴澳大利亚监督指导世界拉力锦标赛的工作报告), using irony to express dissatisfaction with China's standards of race management, economic conditions, political consciousness of the population, etc. in comparison with Australia.[45]

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Han#cite_note-45)I
The guy is very funny and very popular and I wish could find an English translation on-line so you could see his criticism..one of which is "not enough naughty girls"...

So instead of a Billion and a 1/2, maybe its more like only a billion....but boy do they read and watch TV, ideal for media.

[Mariusz]

I find it hard to imagine and event with an eager promotor and plenty of local and national funding like Wales would drop off the calendar anyway, more likely Tour de Corse won't have FFSA backing after this year to continue as a WRC level event.
They cannot just replace Tour de Corse with Rally China which I presume would be another gravel rally. And with 1,5 tarmac rallies out of 13 I wouldn't even dare to call the series World Rally Championship but more like World Gravel Rally Championship.

[SubaruNorway]

They cannot just replace Tour de Corse with Rally China which I presume would be another gravel rally. And with 1,5 tarmac rallies out of 13 I wouldn't even dare to call the series World Rally Championship but more like World Gravel Rally Championship.

China will be concrete, like parts of Panzerplatte in Germany is.

[bluuford]

Japan is a crazy state, Tokyo is a metropolis and they have not house numbers. It's impossible to make a prevision when it comes to Japan.
Just kidding. :D

Agree, Yesterday I was diving around Nara and mountains, today around Kyoto and day before yesterday I was on in Nagoya. Tomorrow between Kyoto and Tokyo. There are no people left otside cities. There are some nice tarmac roads indeed but young people do not go out form the big cities and spectate rallies. However I saw many Chiineses people wlaking around our research plots and see that they are very active.. at least here in Japan. Promoter must do it in a correct way and I say that it will be perfect place for WRC to be. Chinese youngstres look to be on the spot where the car you drive is really important and it is like the cituation in Europe when WRC had its high time. So, do it in a right way and it will be great event in China! Japan, no, they have to work with Japanese around 10 years before they are ready enough to proudly organize WRC event

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

If WRC returns to Japan, they should goes to Hakone region (Initial D settings) or back to Safari instead.

[Jack4688`]

This makes for interesting viewing https://youtu.be/hFvx9xKunJs BBC's coverage of the China Rally in 1999

[Formaldehyde]

This makes for interesting viewing https://youtu.be/hFvx9xKunJs BBC's coverage of the China Rally in 1999

lol, Sainz just says flat out right at the start of the video: "This is a nice country to visit, but this is not the place for a rally." Wow. I'm not used to such brutal honesty from drivers anymore.

[AL14]

Meeke replies Matton's words...

Nobody will take Argentina away from me, no matter what," he told presenter Becs Williams. "It was a high - albeit on a rally where VW had their worst week since they started. I remained realistic afterwards, and the following event in Portugal showed that. I believe in Portugal we nearly had a stronger rally than Argentina and we ended up fourth behind the three VWs. That showed the reality of where we were."

"Sardinia was a big, big disappointment, and I think Yves' disappointment was evident," he said. "In Poland I had a good event, although the fact that we didn't do a pre-event test really handicapped us. We made a wrong tyre call, but without that we'd have been fighting with Hayden [Paddon], for what turned out to be fourth place. From my end, we had one blip in Sardinia, and that's that."

Back in the position of needing some decent results to secure his seat next year, Meeke denied he was feeling the pressure.

"To be honest, I've driven most of my career never having a secure future and it seems like that's the case again at the moment. So really it's no different - it's pretty much the norm. I'm always under pressure to get to the next rally and to do well, to get results to get another season. I've been through a lot harder times than this. At least I have a seat and a steering wheel to do a good job this year to prove that we can continue next year."

Well said Kris.

[jbmarcus21]

some Photos from today at visit Peugeot Museum Sochaux in France
http://planetemarcus.com/visite-du-musee-peugeot-psa-a-sochaux/

[Andre Oliveira]

Maybe some day will be there a Peugeot 208 WRC ;)

[bluuford]

Do Meeke and Matton talk only via press? Interesting... Some kind of PR?

[Eli]

Maybe some day will be there a Peugeot 208 WRC ;)
maybe, who knows..

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Maybe some day will be there a Peugeot 208 WRC ;)
That could be a win-win solution for PSA (Citroen can focuses at FE & WTCC while Pug returns to RC1 class)

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120145 wales rally gb on the line...

[AL14]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120145 wales rally gb on the line...

I think China must host an event for many reasons next year but Wales would be a very big loss.
Wales, Finland and Monte should be the safest rounds in WRC.

[Nornbugger]

Wales, Finland and Monte should be the safest rounds in WRC. True, them and the Safari..... :-(

[Grundo Farb]

True, them and the Safari..... :-(

And New Zealand... Nothing stays the same, the only constant is change.

The Rally in wales doesn't really have much that is special - other than mud I guess. Another location in GB perhaps? Scotland?

At the very least it will make the organisers at these rallies try harder.

[sollitt]

I think China must host an event for many reasons next year ... Reasons? This should be good.



... but Wales would be a very big loss. Wales, Finland and Monte should be the safest rounds in WRC. Again ?

[Grundo Farb]

Look at this map:

727

That is a sad looking "World Rally Championship".

Look back to what it was in 2008:

Round Dates Race
1 24–27 January / Monte Carlo Rally

2 8–10 February Swedish Rally

3 28 February-2 March Rally Mexico

4 27–30 March Rally Argentina

5 24–27 April Jordan Rally

6 16–18 May Rally d'Italia Sardegna

7 29 May-1 June Acropolis Rally

8 13–15 June Rally of Turkey

9 31 July-3 August Rally Finland

10 15–17 August Rallye Deutschland

11 28–31 August Rally New Zealand

12 2–5 October Rally Catalunya

13 10–12 October Tour de Corse

14 31 October-2 November Rally Japan

15 5–7 December Wales Rally GB

Jordan, Japan, New Zealand, Acropolis, Turkey. It seemed to be a bit more rounded than it is now. They also managed 15 rounds back then.

Also, take a look back in time to the thread that was started on "which rally would you like to see in the WRC?" Many people were then saying Rally GB is boring, lets go to the US or back to Asia...

[N.O.T]

yes i am sad as well... but i have an idea.

Bring the financial situation of the world back in 2008 and i will give you back your 15 rounds... deal ?

[Grundo Farb]

yes i am sad as well... but i have an idea.

Bring the financial situation of the world back in 2008 and i will give you back your 15 rounds... deal ?

Yes you are right, using your logic it really does makes sense to now have almost all of the rallies in one of the most sluggish economic regions of the world - Europe. If global economic stability and growth were a factor then most rallies of recent years should have been based in Asia/Pacific - including the US.

Last I read there were still more countries wanting to host an event than available slots - which again doesn't make sense, whose budget is it that dictates there are only 13 rounds?

The 2009 season included twelve rallies, which was three fewer than the 2008 season, because the FIA imposed a "Round Rotation" System in order to attract candidate rallies to have a chance to be a WRC event. Monte Carlo, Sweden, Mexico, Jordan, Turkey, Germany, New Zealand, France and Japan were dropped from the calendar for 2009, but returned at the 2010 WRC Season. Ireland, Norway, Cyprus, Portugal, Poland and Australia returned to the 2009 season.

But then that didn't work as Rallies couldn't build infrastructure and a business model around a one off event with no guarantee of returning, so they then introduced in some cases a longer term rotation - NZ and Australia being examples where they would host it in turn 3 years repeating. But now that seems to have gone out of the door.

And all the while Rally GB has been there - stuck in the mud.

No rally should be safe from a review and if it doesn't deliver any value to the sport it should be evaluated.

Don't forget, Australia have also been lobbying hard to be the end rally for the season positioning it as a summer event rather than the slush-fest of rally GB. Don't underestimate the lobbying powers of the Australians...

[DonJippo]

Last I read there were still more countries wanting to host an event than available slots - which again doesn't make sense, whose budget is it that dictates there are only 13 rounds?

Manufactures.

[AndyRAC]

It would be a bit sad to lose RallyGB, but take off the rose tinted glasses; it’s just another WRC event. Its not the ‘RAC’ of old – which was an iconic, huge event, and a massive challenge to all competing, and those of us who spectated.

[Barreis]

Is there in GB this year still national rally championship?!

[focus206]

Jordan, Japan, New Zealand, Acropolis, Turkey. It seemed to be a bit more rounded than it is now. They also managed 15 rounds back then.

Also, take a look back in time to the thread that was started on "which rally would you like to see in the WRC?" Many people were then saying Rally GB is boring, lets go to the US or back to Asia...

I don't agree that to make a World championship we need many events outside Europe, I don't want to give up on quality for the sake of the rallies being "all around the world", a world championship means also that there should be the best events of the world in the calendar. I would be willing to give a chance to China, but not at the expense of Wales. True that it's not the RAC anymore, but considering we have an event like Mexico that is in the calendar just because it's in North America and that otherwise would have been dropped since those idiots throwing rocks at the cars. Having in the calendar Argentina, Australia, NZ, maybe China and/or Japan if they show they can host an event - great, but that's it. In my opinion, no need for Mexico, Jordan and others...

[Simmi]

Is there in GB this year still national rally championship?!

Yes national rally once again this year.

From a selfish perspective I'd like to see GB remain. I'm averaging 3 WRC events a year but it's nice to be able to drive for a couple of hours and be at your home round.

No event has a divine right to be on the championship. Wales GB certainly isn't the challenge it once was. But what event is? You can't really mark the organisers down for neutering the rally, in line with what is mandated by the FIA/Promoter. The rally has certainly picked back up in the last few years comparatively speaking. It seems to have momentum behind it, plus it actually has funding - so in theory it's future is secured for a few more years in the current area - calendar pending. Another spectator fatality could derail that though.

I'd be annoyed to see Wales get the chop when you have a French round clearly in turmoil, lacking funding and seemingly reluctantly held on Corsica this year. That to me seems like a no-brainer, especially given France has two rounds and China sounds like it will be on tarmac.

That said, if a couple of years out of the calendar meant Rally GB could eventually be revamped and rejuvenated in a different part of the country then I might be tempted to take that. But that's obviously a very big IF.

[AL14]

What about if Corsica will not host the rally next year? It could happen, FIA is not happy about islands rally and the itinerary is not what promoter is aiming to.

China would replace Wales anyway but maybe there will be Ireland (geographically close to Great Britain) replacing Corsica.

EDIT: Lol, I realised soon after that Ireland is an island as well :D I need holiday but still, I really like Ireland roads, don't know if manufacturers will agree but it would be great.

[Jack4688`]

I don't see Wales dropping off the calendar in favour of China, or indeed any other rally. The event has a lot of support from Welsh local and national government (we're led to believe) and so it is unlikely WRC promoter will get rid of it unless all of a sudden that healthy support becomes less than the other rallies under threat. But Tour de Corse does not look like being more than a stop-gap for this year and although healthy, Circuit of Ireland probably won't be in a position to oust Wales Rally GB in the near future.

My guess is that Tour de Corse won't return next year, regardless of whether an event in China is ready for next year

[giu canbera]

BMW in RallyX Scandinavia with a Series 1
https://instagram.com/p/51z6Nowq50/
Can we Hope they are looking into WRC too?
Theres rumors saying they will start to develop a new racing program in December!

Marquardt also said BMW will NOT enter WEC with a LMP1 program cuz its gonna be "too much of this hybrid thing". Same about F1. They keep saying Hybrid cars is just a waste of time and money, cuz "the future will be electric, so we should all improve batteries, not waste time and cash doing hybrids to use them for 5 years then quit cuz of electric engines" (not exactly same words but...)
About FormulaE they've said they will enter the series when batteries can last the whole race. Otherwise it could hurt brand's name. (?? ..Renault, McLaren and Citroen are already there ...??)
THEN.. what else, right? Just hope for some big news till december for both WRC and RallYX

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

They have try that with Mini, then suddenly "pulling their plugs" since Sweden 2012

[EightGear]

BMW in WRC? Do you really believe that's even possible?

[stefanvv]

BMW in WRC? Do you really believe that's even possible?

as much as AUDI & Mercedes

[Simmi]

Going from a single regional rallycross entry to a WRC programme is a bit of a leap.

[Jack4688`]

Going from a single regional rallycross entry to a WRC programme is a bit of a leap.

Especially as that's the old 1er which has since been replaced, which has since been facelifted. So clearly no official involvement from BMW

Edit: Also a quick google shows this isn't the first BMW rallycross car

[skarderud]

Its several Bmw's in rallycross in Scandinavia atleast. Homemade all of them.

[RAS007]

as much as AUDI & Mercedes

So…..is it likely? No, no, it isn't likely. But………..is it possible? No.

[Simmi]

Esapekka Lappi's management confirms he will stay with Skoda in 2016 to get experience of WRC events - http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ralli/art-1438562463184.html

2017 is obviously a really big year in the WRC. New cars, likely plenty of movement in the driver market. So it gives them some options certainly. It also gives an insight perhaps into Skoda's plans next year - i.e. not good news for the ERC.

[AL14]

Esapekka Lappi's management confirms he will stay with Skoda in 2016 to get experience of WRC events - http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ralli/art-1438562463184.html

2017 is obviously a really big year in the WRC. New cars, likely plenty of movement in the driver market. So it gives them some options certainly. It also gives an insight perhaps into Skoda's plans next year - i.e. not good news for the ERC.

Nice, but it would be good if he will have the chance to drive 3-4 round with a WRC if he confirms his actual level until the end of this year. Don't know how it's possible with a Skoda contract. Maybe VW could make him use a 2014 Polo?

[Finne]

Nice, but it would be good if he will have the chance to drive 3-4 round with a WRC if he confirms his actual level until the end of this year. Don't know how it's possible with a Skoda contract. Maybe VW could make him use a 2014 Polo?

IMO bad management from Lappi's managers. We have seen Östberg, Mikkelsen, Hirvonen and Latvala driving in wrc at the point of their career when their level were worse than what Lappi was three years ago.

It could be also that he has already a signed pre-contract with Toyota. Mäkinen said that he would want to have Ogies, Lappi and Paddon. My taste of drivers is exactly matched in this.

[Rally Power]

Esapekka Lappi's management confirms he will stay with Skoda in 2016 to get experience of WRC events - http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ralli/art-1438562463184.html


This should mean Lappi has already a VW seat guaranteed for 2017. Wise move!

[AL14]

IMO bad management from Lappi's managers. We have seen Östberg, Mikkelsen, Hirvonen and Latvala driving in wrc at the point of their career when their level were worse than what Lappi was three years ago.

It could be also that he has already a signed pre-contract with Toyota. Mäkinen said that he would want to have Ogies, Lappi and Paddon. My taste of drivers is exactly matched in this.
Some of the drivers you have mentioned would have benefited to some proper training in lower classes instead.

I think it is a clever move. He is 24 and has got all the time to debut in WRC. Learn some more discipline instead to get lost soon is the right choice.

[Barreis]

IMO bad management from Lappi's managers. We have seen Östberg, Mikkelsen, Hirvonen and Latvala driving in wrc at the point of their career when their level were worse than what Lappi was three years ago.

It could be also that he has already a signed pre-contract with Toyota. Mäkinen said that he would want to have Ogies, Lappi and Paddon. My taste of drivers is exactly matched in this.

They drove WRC 'cos they had money/rich parents... ;)

[Mirek]

IMO bad management from Lappi's managers. We have seen Östberg, Mikkelsen, Hirvonen and Latvala driving in wrc at the point of their career when their level were worse than what Lappi was three years ago.

This.


This should mean Lappi has already a VW seat guaranteed for 2017.

[Simmi]

Yep keeping him in the VAG group is wise. It's very doubtful that both Ogier and Latvala will still be on VWs books come 2017.

I guess the ideal scenario for EVEN is to have Mikkelsen move up into the #2 car and then Lappi move into the #9. A couple of WRC outings late 2016 with zero pressure makes sense too.

[Finne]

Yep keeping him in the VAG group is wise. It's very doubtful that both Ogier and Latvala will still be on VWs books come 2017.

I guess the ideal scenario for EVEN is to have Mikkelsen move up into the #2 car and then Lappi move into the #9. A couple of WRC outings late 2016 with zero pressure makes sense too.

If Citroen would like to excel they should close either Lappi or Paddon. If Lappi goes to Wolkswagen it seems like Wolkswagen eats almost all the talent.

[RS]

A couple of WRC outings late 2016 with zero pressure makes sense too.

Maybe that is possible if he can wrap up the WRC2 title early next year.

[Andre Oliveira]

What could be done to attract more WRC entries during the year? No news during the season, neither some driver to learn to next year. I like the idea of Prokop to WC of Privateers.

[Jack4688`]

Not sure if this has been shared here before but this photoshop should give an idea of how the 2016 Hyundai i20 WRC will look:

[liposh]

I thought the final decision was that the new I20 WRC 2016 will be 5-door version. Did something change?

[Simmi]

There's a thousand testing photos of the 2016 car testing. It's not going to look drastically different to that.


In actual news - Motorsport News are reporting that Wales Rally GB will be on the 2016 calendar. Haven't had chance to read the article yet.

EDIT: Okay press release says that they have government funding confirmed through 2018. Which I'm sure David Evans had already said on Autosport. It doesn't say anything about them having a calendar place - http://www.walesrallygb.com/news/3320.php#.VcHWVflVikp

I think it looks like a nice move to put pressure on the WRC Promoter.

[Simmi]

Good news after all for GB. Seems them being left off the provisional calendar was dependent on this funding, which has now come through - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120225?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=brand%20awareness

[tommeke_B]

Any info on when the complete calendar will be revealed? So far I think only Monte Carlo (18-24th of January) and Sweden (11-14th of February) are sure of their exact dates.

[dimviii]

VOLKSWAGEN MOTORSPORT IS DUE TO BEGIN TESTING A WORLD RALLY CAR INCORPORATING NEW-FOR-2017 TECHNICAL REGULATIONS THIS MONTH, WRC.COM UNDERSTANDS.
ADVERTISING



The German squad will be the first manufacturer to test a car featuring the exciting new-generation rules, the outline principles for which were given the green light by the FIA last month.
Double world champion Marcus Grönholm will drive the car when testing starts. It is believed that up to two weeks’ work is planned before the end of the year, with the Finn responsible for most of that.
Neither Grönholm nor Volkswagen Motorsport director Jost Capito would comment on the plans, but it is believed the test car will be a modified 2015 Polo R WRC, fitted with bodywork complying with the 2017 rules.
It is understood it could be the second quarter of next year before Volkswagen is ready to test a full 2017-specification car.
Grönholm, who inked a deal to join Volkswagen 12 months ago as a test driver, will be involved in the development of the new car both this year and in 2016.

An artist's impression how a 2017 World Rally Car could look
“Volkswagen’s event drivers will be busy testing the current Polo in preparation for rallies this year, so Grönholm will play a big role now and especially next year,” a source told wrc.com.
Following the FIA’s acceptance of the principles, it is expected the final regulations will be approved by the World Motor Sport Council later this year.
A striking aggressive look via a new aerodynamic package which includes a bigger rear wing, and engine power raised to 380bhp are the headline changes.
Cars will be bigger due to a 55mm increase in permitted width and a greater overhang at the front and rear, electronically-controlled centre differentials will return and they will be 25kg lighter.
The changes will be the biggest since the current technical rules were introduced in 2011, but FIA chiefs stress they are evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/august/vw-2017-test/page/2688--12-12-.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Allyc85]

Great to read about the funding being in place for Rally GB :D

Bloody ominous for the rest of the WRC field to see VW testing so early for 2017!! Looking forward to having a better idea of how the new cars will look!

[Eli]

Any info on when the complete calendar will be revealed? So far I think only Monte Carlo (18-24th of January) and Sweden (11-14th of February) are sure of their exact dates.

should be in the next WSMC meeting held on the 30th of september

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120271 Paddon to drive the #8 hyundai in australia

[Ounin]

VOLKSWAGEN MOTORSPORT IS DUE TO BEGIN TESTING A WORLD RALLY CAR INCORPORATING NEW-FOR-2017 TECHNICAL REGULATIONS THIS MONTH, WRC.COM UNDERSTANDS.
ADVERTISING



The German squad will be the first manufacturer to test a car featuring the exciting new-generation rules, the outline principles for which were given the green light by the FIA last month.
Double world champion Marcus Grönholm will drive the car when testing starts. It is believed that up to two weeks’ work is planned before the end of the year, with the Finn responsible for most of that.
Neither Grönholm nor Volkswagen Motorsport director Jost Capito would comment on the plans, but it is believed the test car will be a modified 2015 Polo R WRC, fitted with bodywork complying with the 2017 rules.
It is understood it could be the second quarter of next year before Volkswagen is ready to test a full 2017-specification car.
Grönholm, who inked a deal to join Volkswagen 12 months ago as a test driver, will be involved in the development of the new car both this year and in 2016.

An artist's impression how a 2017 World Rally Car could look
“Volkswagen’s event drivers will be busy testing the current Polo in preparation for rallies this year, so Grönholm will play a big role now and especially next year,” a source told wrc.com.
Following the FIA’s acceptance of the principles, it is expected the final regulations will be approved by the World Motor Sport Council later this year.
A striking aggressive look via a new aerodynamic package which includes a bigger rear wing, and engine power raised to 380bhp are the headline changes.
Cars will be bigger due to a 55mm increase in permitted width and a greater overhang at the front and rear, electronically-controlled centre differentials will return and they will be 25kg lighter.
The changes will be the biggest since the current technical rules were introduced in 2011, but FIA chiefs stress they are evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/august/vw-2017-test/page/2688--12-12-.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Ah well, here is a proof that VW is doing their homework properly. You can assume this from a Championship team but still, here is a solid confirmation again. What is the rest doing ... It differences from saying "we have a veeeery good car and regular drivers are shit we want Neuville" to "we want a WRC rally in China and have to decide" to "Finnish cash party at Tommi's" to "hope Thierry likes the i20" ... The rest sticks to the short term, VW is stable and thinks ahead.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Cant wait to see the first shots of (Gronholm testing) the '2017 VW' ... will be great to get a proper idea of how the future cars might look, as opposed to that terrible mock-up on WRC.com !

[giu canbera]

Then booom. The new car is just like the current one but 10cm wider... :P haha cant wait

[Barreis]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120301

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120317 Network Q returns to Wales Rally GB to sponsor National event.

[Mirek]

Then booom. The new car is just like the current one but 10cm wider... :P haha cant wait

I still doubt they would go for the max width. In my opinion it's practical only for asphalt of Catalunya or wide gravel events like NORF. How will they deal with ruts on snow from gr.N and small cars? By using crazy wheels sunk deep in the wheel arches? How about narrow apshalt roads of German wineyards or Corsican mountains, how about narrow bridges of El Condor etc.?

[Andre Oliveira]

Maybe we will see some Safari Delta S4 / 037 thing :) With teams use two cars (current and 2017 regs).

[Mirek]

I just found that Porsche 997 GT3 RS has 1852 mm which is quite close to the new WRC regs.

[denkimi]

I still doubt they would go for the max width. In my opinion it's practical only for asphalt of Catalunya or wide gravel events like NORF. How will they deal with ruts on snow from gr.N and small cars? By using crazy wheels sunk deep in the wheel arches? How about narrow apshalt roads of German wineyards or Corsican mountains, how about narrow bridges of El Condor etc.?
http://wrcbehindthestages.blogspot.be/2011/09/chapter-18-swedish-wheel-of-fortune.html

there will be no problem, its only 55mm.

[stefanvv]

I still doubt they would go for the max width. In my opinion it's practical only for asphalt of Catalunya or wide gravel events like NORF. How will they deal with ruts on snow from gr.N and small cars? By using crazy wheels sunk deep in the wheel arches? How about narrow apshalt roads of German wineyards or Corsican mountains, how about narrow bridges of El Condor etc.?

That rises one more question - will '17 cars will be that fast, or just not that much depending on circumstances?

[itix]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120338

Good for you! Employ him instead of Ogier so we can see someone other than VW win for once!
Ogier can go to Msport instead of Evans... that would be interesting.

As someone said a long while ago in this thread, Capito is on drugs again! (was that in connection with him saying endurance was shit? hmmm)

[giu canbera]

Are these episodes being aired somewhere?
http://www.redbull.tv/shows/AP-1GJUZWUCW2111/world-rally-championship-2015
They are great for TV..

[dimviii]

Colin Clark ‏@voiceofrally
From a friend in China "Strong rumours that a contract for 2016 WRC has been signed. To be in mountains north of Beijing in mid October"

[rallyfiend]

Are these episodes being aired somewhere?
http://www.redbull.tv/shows/AP-1GJUZWUCW2111/world-rally-championship-2015
They are great for TV..

That's the standard TV programme that's available on all TV channels....

[itix]

I wonder which rally might have to make way for China!
I hope none of the Tarmac rounds and for god's sake not Poland... ...and the rest has too much history/too big following to make way. I am genuinely worried :/

[Martins Tolks]

Sardinia maybe?

[[WRCRR]]

Sardinia maybe?

Sardinia already has contract for 2016 though...but might very well be in danger for 2017 as the promoter want's to get rid of the island-based events for logistical reasons.

Therefore I strongly believe the event that will be dropped from the 3 currently without a guaranteed place in the calendar (Portugal, Germany, Corsica) will be Tour de Corse. Firstly, it wasn't even supposed to be in WRC for 2015, secondly it is an island-based event and thirdly it has no guaranteed financing in place for the future. Also the rumored October date for the China Rally would fit right in the current slot of Corsica.

[AL14]

The 2016 contracts don't count too much.
It's just an agreement with the promoter but it is not confirmed officialy by the FIA. So Sardinia is in danger as well as other rounds like Portugal and France.

I fear it will be Corsica to leave and we will have one less tarmac rally which is a real shame. I hope they will do something about it.

If one has to leave that should be Mexico in my opinion.

[rallyfiend]

The 2016 contracts don't count too much.
It's just an agreement with the promoter but it is not confirmed officialy by the FIA. So Sardinia is in danger as well as other rounds like Portugal and France.

I fear it will be Corsica to leave and we will have one less tarmac rally which is a real shame. I hope they will do something about it.

If one has to leave that should be Mexico in my opinion.

I believe China would be a tarmac round. So it's not a loss there.

[Motorsportfun]

;1061798']Sardinia already has contract for 2016 though...but might very well be in danger for 2017 as the promoter want's to get rid of the island-based events for logistical reasons.

Therefore I strongly believe the event that will be dropped from the 3 currently without a guaranteed place in the calendar (Portugal, Germany, Corsica) will be Tour de Corse. Firstly, it wasn't even supposed to be in WRC for 2015, secondly it is an island-based event and thirdly it has no guaranteed financing in place for the future. Also the rumored October date for the China Rally would fit right in the current slot of Corsica.

Italy is 3rd or 4th biggest WRC+ market, one of "giants" of Europe in terms of car market and manufacturing, lots of privateers, and Sardinia is 5 times bigger than Corsica in terms of population, furthermore Alghero is Sardinia's biggest tourism destination, while Cagliari area is a big town of 500.000 people. Last but not least, Italy has an ASN very powerful at the FIA. ;)

[AL14]

I believe China would be a tarmac round. So it's not a loss there.

It seems it will be gravel instead (and unfortunately).


Italy is 3rd or 4th biggest WRC+ market, one of "giants" of Europe in terms of car market and manufacturing, lots of privateers, and Sardinia is 5 times bigger than Corsica in terms of population, furthermore Alghero is Sardinia's biggest tourism destination, while Cagliari area is a big town of 500.000 people. Last but not least, Italy has an ASN very powerful at the FIA. ;)

Didn't now Italy was a big wrc+ market. Where did you find that statistics?

I would just make some clarifications on what you said. Alghero is one of the biggest destination but not the biggest. Olbia's area for example is bigger. Car market is dying in Italy (as well as other european states) and Fiat, now FCA, is no more a proper italian company. People are buying only secondhand cars. On that side Italy is not that giant anymore although still an important nation.

But you are right overall, I think the good "relationship" with FIA has been crucial till now and will be in the future. Sardinia will be most likely confirmed for 2016.

[Motorsportfun]

Didn't now Italy was a big wrc+ market. Where did you find that statistics?

I downloaded Rally Emotion app (magazine) and read an interview to Oliver Ciesla ;)

[Livewireshock]

For anyone interested in the rallying around Huairou, Beijing, here are links to my pictures from last years event. Unfortunately I have to work and get ready for Rally Australia to prevent me attending this year.

Currently a hard concrete surface on these roads but most likely will change to a gravel event because all the long haul equipment transported to Mexico, Argentina and Australia is set up for gravel.

https://picasaweb.google.com/113865036812279163082/CRCHuairouRally2014Day1?authuser=0&feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/113865036812279163082/CRCHuairouRally2014Day2?authuser=0&feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/113865036812279163082/CRCHuairouRally2014Day3?authuser=0&feat=directlink

There are few hotels, close to the current service park, but near the Super Special on day 1, there are many resorts, such as the one used for last years APEC meeting in Beijing. However this is about 60-80km from the current stages.

Rumours from China suggest using roads in Zhangjiakou and Yanqing (new home for the Winter Olympics) as well as Huairou and Miyun, across the north of Beijing. Similar to the way the cycling Tour of Beijing used to run.

Sponsor for this event is believed to be from http://www.letv.com, a major local internet media company.

[EightGear]

If China is going to be gravel, WRC has a serious problem with just 1 pure tarmac round.

[itix]

;1061798']Sardinia already has contract for 2016 though...but might very well be in danger for 2017 as the promoter want's to get rid of the island-based events for logistical reasons.

Therefore I strongly believe the event that will be dropped from the 3 currently without a guaranteed place in the calendar (Portugal, Germany, Corsica) will be Tour de Corse. Firstly, it wasn't even supposed to be in WRC for 2015, secondly it is an island-based event and thirdly it has no guaranteed financing in place for the future. Also the rumored October date for the China Rally would fit right in the current slot of Corsica.

I don't understand the promoter sometimes. Get off your lazy asses and do your jobs. It is logistically difficult? Well buuhuu for you...
Italy and France are two of the biggest nations for rally in europe with big, competetive and thriving national championships. They also have a lot of prominent and active rally media. Most of rally following comes from those two. Corsica is a classic and dare to do things differently. Sardegna has become a modern classic and can't be dropped from the schedule.

'Tis a massive shame that we can't extend the calendar (I assume team economy is the issue).

Australia is not my absolute favorite but I am against dropping that because it wouldn't be a world championship if we didn't go outside europe!

[Livewireshock]

I don't understand the promoter sometimes. Get off your lazy asses and do your jobs. It is logistically difficult? Well buuhuu for you...
Italy and France are two of the biggest nations for rally in europe with big, competetive and thriving national championships. They also have a lot of prominent and active rally media. Most of rally following comes from those two. Corsica is a classic and dare to do things differently. Sardegna has become a modern classic and can't be dropped from the schedule.

'Tis a massive shame that we can't extend the calendar (I assume team economy is the issue).

Australia is not my absolute favorite but I am against dropping that because it wouldn't be a world championship if we didn't go outside europe!

It is not logistics but the sheer cost of having a long haul tarmac event. The extra spares and gear needed would break the budget for many privateers in WRC2 or WRC3. They are already having to run two separate cars, one in Europe and one circling the globe without the need for a third tarmac car for a single event. WRC factory teams could possibly afford it but you do need more entries than them.

The only saving grace for a tarmac round in China could be a fast freight train, currently only 14-16 days (a third of the sea voyage) across Russia etc to China. Maybe the Chinese will help fund teams to transport their gear overland but I doubt it. By the way, BMW send engines this way to their Chinese factories.

[AL14]

Here it is another speculation:
Logistic costs can be cheaper if you put Australia after China. Australia is asking since 2014 to have the last round of the season. Maybe the decision of running China in October will mean that in November there will be Australia as last round and in that case it is Wales to say bye bye.

I have no basis to say it but it is funny to try to predict such moves. Hope to be wrong, I'd like Wales to stay.

[itix]

Here it is another speculation:
Logistic costs can be cheaper if you put Australia after China. Australia is asking since 2014 to have the last round of the season. Maybe the decision of running China in October will mean that in November there will be Australia as last round and in that case it is Wales to say bye bye.

I have no basis to say it but it is funny to try to predict such moves. Hope to be wrong, I'd like Wales to stay.

If you are right about that, it will no doubt be another boring gravel rally, destined to flop like the 1999 version (or was it 2000? no I believe Auriol won so it must have been -99). Please promoter, event organisers and FIA, be sensible about this. China has lots of beautiful mountains and concrete roads are an interesting difference from the smooth tarmac of Spain.

May there be a rally appreciating god in heaven!


It is not logistics but the sheer cost of having a long haul tarmac event. The extra spares and gear needed would break the budget for many privateers in WRC2 or WRC3. They are already having to run two separate cars, one in Europe and one circling the globe without the need for a third tarmac car for a single event. WRC factory teams could possibly afford it but you do need more entries than them.

The only saving grace for a tarmac round in China could be a fast freight train, currently only 14-16 days (a third of the sea voyage) across Russia etc to China. Maybe the Chinese will help fund teams to transport their gear overland but I doubt it. By the way, BMW send engines this way to their Chinese factories.

It shouldn't be impossible to plan the calendar so that you can do a sea voyage and pack stuff in containers. Maersk does several fast Europe to China lines (I know, I work on a ship).

If china can have enough space on either side to send the equipment by sea it shouldn't be impossible. It could even be the last round for all I care, just not another boring gravel rally.

[dimviii]

Colin Clark
‏@voiceofrally
From the Beijing Huairou Rally this week. Apparently sponsor confirmed for WRC event pending what they see this week


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMw7D4WWcAAlfcM.jpg

rally is asphalt.
Traxx - WR is Free ‏@Traxx_WiF
Le Beijing Huairou Rally (asphalte, Chine) pourrait avoir la faveur des observateurs FIA pour une intégration en 2016 http://bit.ly/1Ji6X74

[Jack4688`]

I believe China would be a tarmac round. So it's not a loss there.

If it is a sealed surface then I hope this isn't anything to go by: https://youtu.be/wcJLo_owefo Anyone know if that is a good representation of the rally as a whole?

Gravel isn't boring by it's very nature, in fact the other week I watch the BBC coverage of China Rally 1999 on youtube (and posted it a few pages back on this thread) and I quite liked it. The problems at the time seemed to be about the organisation rather than the stages but I remember Auriol and I think Burns saying at the end of the event it wasn't that bad a rally. Of course it was replaced for 2000...

It would be a shame to lose a tarmac round but I sincerely hope the Italian round returns to tarmac on the mainland - the 1000 Miglia stages around Brescia would be amazing, if a little too similar to the Monte Carlo stages, although Monte Carlo seems to be less alpine based than when I watched it as a kid in the early 2000s.

Also, can someone explain to me the logistical issue with having a gravel car and a tarmac car when the same chassis is used for both surfaces for Rallye Catalunya? If they can convert the setup overnight why can't a car be setup for a tarmac flyaway/island round and converted for the next time it's used on on a flyaway gravel event?

[Toyoda]

If it is a sealed surface then I hope this isn't anything to go by: https://youtu.be/wcJLo_owefo Anyone know if that is a good representation of the rally as a whole?

Gravel isn't boring by it's very nature, in fact the other week I watch the BBC coverage of China Rally 1999 on youtube (and posted it a few pages back on this thread) and I quite liked it. The problems at the time seemed to be about the organisation rather than the stages but I remember Auriol and I think Burns saying at the end of the event it wasn't that bad a rally. Of course it was replaced for 2000...

It would be a shame to lose a tarmac round but I sincerely hope the Italian round returns to tarmac on the mainland - the 1000 Miglia stages around Brescia would be amazing, if a little too similar to the Monte Carlo stages, although Monte Carlo seems to be less alpine based than when I watched it as a kid in the early 2000s.

Also, can someone explain to me the logistical issue with having a gravel car and a tarmac car when the same chassis is used for both surfaces for Rallye Catalunya? If they can convert the setup overnight why can't a car be setup for a tarmac flyaway/island round and converted for the next time it's used on on a flyaway gravel event?


So dumb, NZ should be on the calendar!! China Australia and NZ could be cool :)

[giu canbera]

this little "WRC Powerslide" game is silly but looks fun just to waste some time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WclZBxaujTI

[dimviii]

Colin Clark ‏@voiceofrally
More potential calendar news! Governor of Kangwon state in South Korea attended Rally Germany and apparently wants to take WRC to his region

[Jack4688`]

So the WRC will be just like F1 - anywhere that has the money can get a round of the championship despite no previous pedigree in the sport. At least in the WRC a candidate event must be run, but that's of little comfort...

[AL14]

Great news. Let's hope for rounds both in South Corea and China. And maybe in Azerbaijan too or Russia. I think also Argentina should alternate his round with Brazil.

[Mirek]

Is anyone really surprised that Hyundai wants to have their own home event just like all other brands involved have? ;)

[stefanvv]

Is anyone really surprised that Hyundai wants to have their own home event just like all other brands involved have? ;)

they'll hardly make 1-2-3 at their home event atm. btw Ford doesn't have home event?!? where it should be - USA, Germany, or UK (Cumbria)?

[AL14]

Is anyone really surprised that Hyundai wants to have their own home event just like all other brands involved have? ;)

What I don't understand is why a lot of people are scared about it.

[N.O.T]

What I don't understand is why a lot of people are scared about it.

because they are stuck in the past like old men waiting for Mr Death to come... and they are afraid of evolution and change... scared doggys that perish into the darkness and none remembers them.

[Mirek]

they'll hardly make 1-2-3 at their home event atm. btw Ford doesn't have home event?!? where it should be - USA, Germany, or UK (Cumbria)?

I consider Wales Rally GB as a home event for Ford/M-Sport.

[AL14]

The fact with this rumor is that politics on the other side of the world have interest in hosting a WRC round. Not only the manufacturer. That is very very good, it shows the potential of the sport after a decade of crisis with two manufacturers and no will to invest and move on.

[SubaruNorway]

Yeah seems like a brilliant idea to have a WRC in a country where this shows up when you google it :p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn9eq39tNG0

Please enlighten me if there actually does exist a championship.

[AL14]

Yeah seems like a brilliant idea to have a WRC in a country where this shows up when you google it :p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn9eq39tNG0

Please enlighten me if there actually does exist a championship.

So, using your logic. Football would be played only in England by now, basket would be blasphemy outside USA. No way to play rugby outside anglosaxon countries...

[N.O.T]

Yeah seems like a brilliant idea to have a WRC in a country where this shows up when you google it :p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn9eq39tNG0

Please enlighten me if there actually does exist a championship.

So why does a country needs to have a rich rally history or any histroy at all to introduce a WRC event ??

[SubaruNorway]

So why does a country needs to have a rich rally history or any histroy at all to introduce a WRC event ??

Maybe not, but you might have to source an organisation to run it from somewhere else don't you think?

[N.O.T]

Maybe not, but you might have to source an organisation to run it from somewhere else don't you think?

yes of course... or provide technical support and knowledge... whats wrong with that ?

[Rally Power]

I would prefer a WRC round in the North neighbor. With the Dear Leader around, for sure there would be lots of spectators...https://youtu.be/gLVciTOtwN0

[stefanvv]

I consider Wales Rally GB as a home event for Ford/M-Sport.

ok, but I wonder as last year Hyundai won their "home" event in Germany, now all of a sudden their home is South Korea?!? At least that was my impression last year....

[AL14]

I would prefer a WRC round in the North neighbor. With the Dear Leader around, for sure there would be lots of spectators...https://youtu.be/gLVciTOtwN0

They could always organize some stage in the border like Sweden and Norway. That would be exciting indeed.

[Mirek]

ok, but I wonder as last year Hyundai won their "home" event in Germany, now all of a sudden their home is South Korea?!? At least that was my impression last year....

Calling Rally Deutschland a home rally for Hyundai is pure marketing. Yes, the motorsport department is located there but it's clear for everybody that Korea is a home of Korean brand. Don't You agree? You know I live in a country where we have a big Hyundai factory and an extremely aggressive marketing department of Hyundai Czech. One of their base tools is to repeat and repeat that Hyundai is a Czech car. Take it as You will.

[Zeakiwi]

Which is the best Czech Rally for WRC?
Hyundai/ South Korea should go for an Asian World RX round - should Hyundai ever get better at RX. Leave the Asian WRC round for China/ Japan rotation.(when / if Toyota returns)

[Rallyper]

So, using your logic. Football would be played only in England by now, basket would be blasphemy outside USA. No way to play rugby outside anglosaxon countries...

You´re absolutely right about that. But a country playing football, let´s say only on gravel instead of proper grass and having 1/10 of playing field, wouldn´t get World Soccer Cup by no chance. :)

[stefanvv]

Calling Rally Deutschland a home rally for Hyundai is pure marketing. Yes, the motorsport department is located there but it's clear for everybody that Korea is a home of Korean brand. Don't You agree?

Yes it should be marketing. After all that is all what is about. Anyway I don't see much of it lately with their WRC campaign with seems no development of their cars. Perhaps 16' will be different anyway....


we have a big Hyundai factory and an extremely aggressive marketing department of Hyundai Czech. One of their base tools is to repeat and repeat that Hyundai is a Czech car. Take it as You will.

No I didn't know that, very strange as I've always knew in Czech there is only 1 car maker - Skoda. I wonder how the Koreans manage to break this marketing movement.....

[stefanvv]

So, using your logic. Football would be played only in England by now, basket would be blasphemy outside USA. No way to play rugby outside anglosaxon countries...

Some historic sources may argue that origin of football is Gaul. Don't ask me about the ball they have used.....

[Mirek]

No I didn't know that, very strange as I've always knew in Czech there is only 1 car maker - Skoda. I wonder how the Koreans manage to break this marketing movement.....

Actually we have here more car factories. There are two factories of Škoda, one of TPCA (Toyota-Peugeot-Citroën) and one of Hyundai. Why I said that is the way Hyundai marketing works. They are really extremely aggressive. Their campaign goes directly against Škoda here. They are laughing about Škoda in their commercials, in media interview their leadership says that Škoda is competition for Dacia not Hyundai (while in the same time half of their commercials speaks about "the jealous neighbour from Mladá Boleslav"). I personally find the way they do that as pathetic. On the other hand maybe we will have a works Hyundai R5 in our championship when it's ready. Who knows if they have balls to do that :cool:

[AL14]

You´re absolutely right about that. But a country playing football, let´s say only on gravel instead of proper grass and having 1/10 of playing field, wouldn´t get World Soccer Cup by no chance. :)

Ironically South Corea had a football situation not far from your description but they did host a World Soccer Championship back in 2002. ;)

[GigiGalliNo1]

You can't say that Rally Australia has the history because, well the Coffs Harbour has no history. It was a new rally for the championship as a lot, and I mean nearly every organiser and marshal from Rally Australia that was held in Perth, went over to the East coast of the country to set up the rally. Korea doesn't need to have a series it self, it just has to have people who know what to do. Bring in the French or the Germans or even Australians to design a rally in South Korea... Why not. I see no harm in bringing new rallies to the series that have no history. Australia was new in 1989, most rallies had no much of a history except these well known rounds like Monte, Corsica, Safari.

[Eli]

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ds/92579/ds-reveals-new-performance-division so what DS or Citroen use as their car for 2017?? if DS is for Formula E

[Mirek]

There will be new C3 in 2016.

[Rallyper]

Yves Matton quits Citroen WRT then? Will it be any 2016?

[EightGear]

Why? There is nothing so suggest something like that.

[dimviii]

Teemu/Rallirinki.net ‏@HartusvuoriWRC
Ogier win in #RallyDeutschland means that stat for the most #WRC wins by nations goes to France now. France 175, Finland 174.

[Rallyper]

Why? There is nothing so suggest something like that.

This:
"Matton was the team principal of both Citroen’s World Rally Team and World Touring Car Championship teams, helping the teams to many of Citroen’s motorsport victories in recent years. As director of DS performance he will be looking to carry that success forward to the Formula E championship."

[janvanvurpa]

Why I said that is the way Hyundai marketing works. They are really extremely aggressive. Their campaign goes directly against Škoda here. They are laughing about Škoda in their commercials, in media interview their leadership says that Škoda is competition for Dacia not Hyundai (while in the same time half of their commercials speaks about "the jealous neighbour from Mladá Boleslav"). I personally find the way they do that as pathetic.

Ah, but dear Mirek---those adverts: are they commanded by the Korean management OR!!!

what some local advertising schmucks come up with (who maybe convince their bosses that this is the way to advertise there)??

[Mirek]

This:
"Matton was the team principal of both Citroen’s World Rally Team and World Touring Car Championship teams, helping the teams to many of Citroen’s motorsport victories in recent years. As director of DS performance he will be looking to carry that success forward to the Formula E championship."

If I understood Matton well all sport activities of PSA shall be centered in Satory under one "supreme" leadership.


Ah, but dear Mirek---those adverts: are they commanded by the Korean management OR!!!

what some local advertising schmucks come up with (who maybe convince their bosses that this is the way to advertise there)??

I think that this comes from their local Czech managers...

And by the way today they (Hyundai) lost a deal for near 500 new police cars... with Škoda .

[denkimi]

You´re absolutely right about that. But a country playing football, let´s say only on gravel instead of proper grass and having 1/10 of playing field, wouldn´t get World Soccer Cup by no chance. :)

in 2022 the world cup is being held in quatar, a country where no grass grows.