[WRC] News & rumours (part III)

[Jack4688`]

That's why the rally sport must be centered around the privateers, as it was in the beginning - rich people enjoying their expensive hobby. But with this greedy corrupt french governing body this will realistically not happen soon.

With respect, who wants to see an FIA World championship that is mainly about 'gentleman drivers'? We want to see the best drivers competing against each other and preferably with a high level of competition rather than someone walking their way to the title. Not some drinks magnate who's bought himself an expensive rally car.

WRC needs manufacturers otherwise where are the cars going to come from? The problem at the moment is we don't have everyone involved pulling in the same direction. Namely Jost Capito's insane idea to change the basic concept of what rallying should be and a promotor that seems to have had zero tangible influence on the championship in just over a year.

[tommeke_B]

@Jack, "privateer drivers" aren't the same as what you refer to "gentleman drivers". But I do understand that, due to the poor condition of the current WRC, you think it's one thing. Current WRC is too expensive for privateers. A privateer can be a promising young driver too, who is driving with help of a federation (quite rare) or sponsors and/or private fundings. Don't forget that EVERY current WRC works-driver used to be a privateer...

The sport MUST be accessible for everyone, in my opinion. It must be a step-up to the top level of rallying. All WRC championships (WRC, WRC2, WRC3, JWRC, DMack Trophy and everything around it) don't offer the needed return for the investment they require. Comparing to ERC (IRC in the past) they have a very bad score. Plenty of extremely talented people who are stuck on a national level, as they can't take the "big" step up, to international rallying. They can't persuade their sponsors to invest in something that costs much more and gives no return at all.

But ok, continue complaining there's nobody to beat Ogier, and wonder why... ;)

[rallyfiend]

All WRC championships (WRC, WRC2, WRC3, JWRC, DMack Trophy and everything around it) don't offer the needed return for the investment they require. Comparing to ERC (IRC in the past) they have a very bad score. Plenty of extremely talented people who are stuck on a national level, as they can't take the "big" step up, to international rallying. They can't persuade their sponsors to invest in something that costs much more and gives no return at all.)

I think you're flattering the ERC a bit there. It's not exactly thriving and flush with a big field of regular drivers. How many events have been cancelled in the IRC / ERC in recent years?

Whereas if you look at the WRC championships:
- WRC 2: record numbers at events
- Dmack: oversubscribed
- JWRC - big field (so far...)

What are all these people doing if they're not getting their return on investment? What are they doing in the WRC if there is a viable alternative in the ERC? The fact is, in many cases the ERC is not a viable alternative. It doesn't have the footprint that the WRC has. It's shown on Eurosport at 1am in the morning and occasionally they do Live. At least the new WRC promoter has created Live (up to 3 hours per event) from every single event so far this year (where it can be seen is a separate matter...).

Sometimes people can be a bit too negative about the WRC. It's important that people don't let perception be seen as reality....

[tommeke_B]

About cancellation of ERC events you are right, unlike the WRC events which remain the same year after year, without much of a change, ERC has many unproven events next to some "classic" rallies (Ypres, Barum, Corsica, Valais). The main problem of ERC at this particular moment is that the S2000 cars are outdated and the R5 cars are not quite there yet. I expect national importers to support some projects again next year, as we have seen during the great "IRC" years.

About WRC2 you are right, this year's championship is quite good (last year was quite a disaster in my opinion), anyway I don't like the system of choosing half of the events and being able to avoid competing directly against your biggest opponents, it could make it a meaningless title in my opinion, if some slower driver wins because he is doing other events than the faster guys...

Concerning return things are different from country to country (like in one country Dakar is a big thing while in another country it's almost invisible in media), but I dare to say that newspapers here have as much news of an ERC event as of a WRC event. When Neuville was in ERC we were seeing as much, if not more news about him than we see now, while he is in WRC... While I see something being written about Junior ERC or the previous 2WD Cup or Production cup, things such as WRC2, WRC3, JWRC and Dmack Trophy seem to be completely ignored in media (a bit like F1 is completely seperated from all side-events and nothing is written about those either). Visibility of WRC on TV is 0, nothing, you can only see it on a paychannel here. And again the lower categories are completely ignored on TV... Live-tv of WRC is non-existant for me. I'm not going to spend my time on a website clicking away banners while a low-quality stream is playing and buffering every 2 minutes, I'm probably crazy but not that crazy... With ERC/IRC there's Eurosport to watch, and during the "good years" with Loix and/or Neuville competing, we could see it on national tv as well. Also important is that the footage of ERC is much more exciting to watch than what the promotors of WRC produce. Although the quality of their images is a bit better and looks more professional, it's just boring to watch.

Don't understand me wrong. I like rallying, visit an average of 25 events/year, on regional, national and international level. Throughout the years I visited more than half of the different WRC events on the calendar. And I hope the best for the future of WRC, as the WRC contains the nicest events. But if you are being honest, you can't deny that the promotor of WRC is failing at their work, on many different aspects. There are so many examples of how things can be done better... And until those things are solved, I'm sure that ERC provides a better return for private competitors, on a smaller area but with a bigger impact.

[RAS007]

With ERC/IRC there's Eurosport to watch, and during the "good years" with Loix and/or Neuville competing, we could see it on national tv as well. Also important is that the footage of ERC is much more exciting to watch than what the promotors of WRC produce. Although the quality of their images is a bit better and looks more professional, it's just boring to watch..... But if you are being honest, you can't deny that the promotor of WRC is failing at their work, on many different aspects. There are so many examples of how things can be done better... And until those things are solved, I'm sure that ERC provides a better return for private competitors, on a smaller area but with a bigger impact.

This^^^.

[journeyman racer]

Unfortunately I fear it's more likely the manufacturers will want to hit more markets, so long as they don't go back up to 14+ events like we had about 10 years ago. The manufacturers would have more sway in this matter tooWant more markets? That's more expense. Less markets? Less expense. But include more criticism. It's a self-defeating circle.


I think going for 8-10 events would be better for the WRC; can it really support 14-16 events? Not in my opinion. Too many involved think the sport is bigger than it actually is.I wonder if regardless of the number of total rounds, x number/best of rounds count toward the title would be considered?

[journeyman racer]

This is true. Manufacturers will always be unhappy with the length of the rallies. They only want to have the headlines "Driver X with our car did a great result" after spending as less as possible. They approve spending only when it gives them advantage for a certain victory.
That's why the rally sport must be centered around the privateers, as it was in the beginning - rich people enjoying their expensive hobby. But with this greedy corrupt french governing body this will realistically not happen soon.
That's a point I have about Touring Cars. Then include manufacturers as an addition, who can come and go as they please. What is the problem, regarding the FIA?


Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I remember about 8-10 years ago Subaru's budget was about 80 mln euros. The biggest budget now is about half of it. Are all those talks about promoter problems or they just look for excuses as you noticed?Maybe 40 mil still could be too much for some. The value of money, and how it circles through an economy, is quite peculiar nowadays. The trend is to ask/expect more and more value for money. If it was 30mil, then that'll be too much. 20 mil and so on. At what point do you stop compromising you competition? Will it be a one day rally someday? I mean, 3 day rallies is already a compromise to a genuine, full blown WRC event.

[makinen_fan]

Good to see Graig Breen will do two more WRC outings with a Fiesta, Finland and Germany
http://www.craigbreen.com/news.php?&id=520

[Eli]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2014/06/06/hersteller-schwenken-auf-capito-linie-ein/index.html
looks like it will happen next year.....:(

[kirungi okwogera]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2014/06/06/hersteller-schwenken-auf-capito-linie-ein/index.html
looks like it will happen next year.....:(

terrible, terrible idea... ruins the sport in an arbitrary way. you can't manufacture drama in motorsport, reality TV style, you can only assure an even level of competition and the drama will come. instead of working on the competition, they make it so the guy in 3rd can't attack the guy in 2nd at the end of 3-4 days of rallying, even if they're .5sec apart. hmm yes this will add drama.

[makinen_fan]

VW in the WRC until 2019

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114383

[Eli]

http://www.maxrally.com/2014/06/10/vw-to-make-a-splash-in-the-wrc-until-2019

[AndyRAC]

Good news.
As long as they don’t start asking to turn the sport into Rally X..

[Jajá]

and the championship title goes to: Seb! (for 16 years in a row!) :-D

[306 Cosworth]

I think it's great that they've committed for so long, just hope Jost Capito doesn't try to change the sport too much.

Here's a video a put together of the Polo R WRC in action on 4 different rallies in 2013/14

http://youtu.be/h9feNODYiwk

[dimviii]

http://www.rally.it/toyota-prosegue-i-test-in-sardegna/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=toyota-prosegue-i-test-in-sardegna

[MJW]

My guess is that Jost got his way over the format and that he has knowlede that a worthy rival manufacturer will also join the series. By that I mean Toyota, because even though the final podium wasnt a VW lock out just look at how many stages were a VW 1,2,3 last weekend.

[makinen_fan]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114400

I liked this one:
Ostberg, who scored his best result with Citroen in finishing second in Italy, said: "I'm fine with my position in the championship. And it's part of the game, where you start on a rally.
"Ogier talks about it all the time. Well, you [Ogier] are the fastest in the world; you can go first: f*** off!"

[Eli]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2014/06/11/shootout-jetzt-spricht-der-promoter/index.html

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114408

[Eli]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2014/06/12/wm-kalender-2015-alles-wie-gehabt/index.html
and Brazil and China again being postponed

[focus206]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2014/06/11/shootout-jetzt-spricht-der-promoter/index.html

Translated with Google:
"I see myself as a hardcore rally fan and we do not want any of them lose," Capito said. "But I think that the hardcore fans have to be a little more open and interested should be in mind that more people excited about the sport. If the public's interest increases, then also increases the interest of manufacturers in this sport because they see that they can sell on the World Rally Championship their cars. If so are there more producers, it's also better for the hardcore fans because they see more cars and drivers. "

Go home, Jost...

[RAS007]

Go home, Jost...

+1

I wish Capito would just fuck off.

[PLuto]

I dont know if Capito is really so stupid or he is trying to show how big boss he is and what else he can say/do...

[Lundefaret]

If You believe that one of the worlds largest car manufacturers, when choosing a person to run one of its bigget and most important marketing and branding campaigns, hires a person that is "stupid" , then I think You are wrong.

I think that to call Jost Capito stupid would miss the mark by a huge margin.

There are probably a lot of people on this forum that know the details of his exploits a lot better than I do, and talked to him more often than I have (I have met him only once), but if You look at his track record You cant be anything but impressed of what he has achieved. This both in motorsports, but also in regular car manufacture, as the boss of Fords ST- and RS-products. It was Capito - and his team - that developed Ford ST, and RS to strong performance brands in the modern world (yes, I know that RS carries a heritatge.)

When talks are made about changes to the WRC, You also must remember where Jost Capito is coming from. He has to defend Volkswagens spending with how much media attantion and brand building this offers, against other activities they could spend their marketing budget on. If he cant defend or deliver Return On Investment, Volkswagen is out of WRC by morning.

The fact that there are curently so few manufacturers in the WRC, is a testament to how most manufacturers rate the value of competing in the championship.
If the sport of WRC should be a sport taath attracts manufacturers with big budgets, wich then again ables drivers, engineers etc to live of this sport, the marketing and branding return must be improved.

Jost Capito is a very strong ambassador for the WRC, both towards the board at Volkswagen, and towards the media etc. Its in his best interest that this sport grows as popular as possible. He has showed earlier with different projects that he knows a thing or two about marketing/brand building etc, so I think it is a bit ignorant to rule him out before he is even given a chance.

If Jost Capito reaches his aim of improving the broadcatsing, media coverage, brand value etc, we all win. This is because this will then attract more manufacturers, they will need more drivers, more mechanics, engineers etc, and this in turn will make our whole sport bigger.

If the shootout that is not a shootout is put in effect, I my self do not know if this will work or not, but I do know that big changes has to be made to the promoting of the sport to make it more attractive for more manufacturers. The WRC has had a steady decline in popularity, and I think that a change has got to come, and that we should dare to try different things in the hope of finding the magic ingredient.
I think changes like this would affect how we has hard core rally nerds view the sport only a small extent.

[dimviii]

When talks are made about changes to the WRC, You also must remember where Jost Capito is coming from. He has to defend Volkswagens spending with how much media attantion and brand building this offers, against other activities they could spend their marketing budget on. If he cant defend or deliver Return On Investment, Volkswagen is out of WRC by morning.


thats your answer Pluto.

but if he knows the right way to show,or he will destroy wrc, it is another talk.

[PLuto]

Yes, nice words from Ludefaret. I have never talked with Capito, but I am following him lot of years. He has made a big success at Ford, for sure. But all the time he is fighting only about HIS interest. And interest of HIS employee. For him (and it looks like also lot of other people at the top position) is not important success or rallysport or bright view to the future of this sport, they are interested mainly about their money. And that is the biggest problem, that is why rallysport is where it is...

[AndyRAC]

VW are no different to any other Manufacturer; they want a Return on Investment. And the best way to achieve this through the various media; not just TV. Just what type of coverage are they expecting? All non F1 series would like more coverage; and there is a battle between them all to be 2nd after F1. At the moment the series which seems to be attracting more Manufacturers is the WEC - yet doesn't have great TV deals; MotorsTV and Eurosport...niche channels. So, what are the WRC manufacturers wanting?

I can't think of many sports which have changed so much over the years as the WRC - and yet still they meddle. F1 is still 1h30-45mins, Sportscars still has 6, 12, 24 hour races; yet the WRC gas chopped the mileage and number of days dramatically - and they're still not happy. What happens if this 'shoot out' doesn't work? What is the next hare brained scheme?

With the the route for RallyGB announced yesterday - compare an old RAC Rally to RallyGB; and that tells you everything about the modern WRC. Just 212 stage miles, with 25 miles on the final day. It's just another gravel Rally - I know we can't go back; but we surely can have a happy medium on some events? It appears not.

I still don't think there's a better sight in Motorsport than a Rallycar full chat in the gloom, brakes still glowing, spotlights lighting up the sky/ forest.....

But the WRC is slowly losing its attraction for me, sadly.

[PLuto]

I agree with AndyRAC. Most of decisions during last year are not helping the rallysport, they are killing it. They want to bring new spectators to this sport, but they are doing it bad way, which is not interesting for them. And what is worse, they are loosing the old spectators...

[makinen_fan]

First of all they have to change the promoter all together, the guys have no clue how to produce a nice and interesting show.
If I was a viewer unfamiliar with WRC and browsing the TV channels and bump onto a WRC shows, there was no way I was going to like what I see. Their program is totally boring and lacks any true excitement (plenty of fake excitement by commentators...) to attract new spectators. Even I find it hard to watch the sport I love...
I cant see how all these changes will make something magically click together and attract new spectators.

[ste898]

Crapito didnt have a clue about performance cars at Ford as anyhting he brought out was wheel scambling front wheel drive he never produced a proper 4WD RS Ford

Now he also is the same clueless in WRC

If this stupid shootout comes into WRC that will make it a total joke!!!!

[Barreis]

First of all they have to change the promoter all together, the guys have no clue how to produce a nice and interesting show.
If I was a viewer unfamiliar with WRC and browsing the TV channels and bump onto a WRC shows, there was no way I was going to like what I see. Their program is totally boring and lacks any true excitement (plenty of fake excitement by commentators...) to attract new spectators. Even I find it hard to watch the sport I love...
I cant see how all these changes will make something magically click together and attract new spectators.
Also official site. Last rally couldn't find results on home page but could find radio or stream from service. What's more important, results or something else...

[Antony Warmbold]

the downhill spiral started with the brilliant idea (when DR came to power I believe) to restrict press access dramatically for small time journalists. I remember friends in press saying how hard it had become to be accredited. Same for local TV stations, no more access unless big bucks on the table... same for local radios...
and here we are nowadays with this pseudo producer who dreams of making millions with pay TV who might as well be doing videos on a circus show

today it's more interesting to follow a rally on a forum like this one where you can find links from dozens of private people on location who post tweets, pics and videos... thank god for internet

[Leon]

today it's more interesting to follow a rally on a forum like this one where you can find links from dozens of private people on location who post tweets, pics and videos... thank god for internet

..... and also read news and info from well - informed and knowledgeable people

[makinen_fan]

Radical World Rally Championship revamp to go ahead in 2015:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114425

[Eli]

Radical World Rally Championship revamp to go ahead in 2015:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114425
this will be a make it or brake it moment for WRC next year...

[Eli]

http://www.rally.it/toyota-test-in-sardegna/ i hope when they come back they'll have this livery.

[AndyRAC]

WRC RiP....

Run and promoted by idiots.....

[Eli]

wrc rip....

Run and promoted by idiots.....
like

[RAS007]

Radical World Rally Championship revamp to go ahead in 2015:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114425

That article is simply unbelievable. Why does Capito get to decide the future of the sport? If this really does go ahead, and I can't believe I am saying this, the WRC will be finished for me.

[FUNKYXXXXX]

WRC RiP....

Run and promoted by idiots.....

for sure.

[focus206]

this will be a make it or brake it moment for WRC next year...

No, this isn't WRC or rallying anymore, it's a farce.
I'm so mad at what Capito said, "Hardcore rally fans should be more open minded and should be happy that more fans will join the WRC", no I don't care Mr. Capito, I don't care if there are 10 manufacturers and millions of fans if it isn't the WRC anymore, it's another sport. It's like "Hey, I've got an idea to make tennis more popular, let's turn it into volleyball! Hardcore tennis fans should be happy!" (first two sports that cam to my mind and obviously a paradox, but still).
Rant over. I'll try to enjoy Le Mans this weekend before VW enters and turns also that into a farce.

[EightGear]

I'm not judging this yet... Let's see how this will work out next year. I'm curious to see how this will play out in reality (team orders for example).

Points being awarded for every day of competition is a good addition.

[Mirek]

If Capito thinks that hardcore fans are not needed I think he can continue playing whatever he likes without my attendance. Good bye WRC. I'm going to stick with ERC.

[Antony Warmbold]

"This can make it more attractive - we want the cars close together and fighting - and we need to know we can sell the television."

It's funny how they still think they will "sell the television"...

Why sell the TV? Who wants to sell the TV? --> A handful of greedy people who failed at making it in Formula One?

Manufacturers: You want return on investment? You want spectators? You want audience? You want readers for your press? You want to sell your cars to future fans of WRC?

ok, open up the rallies to all local and intl press and tv and radio for free, then wait a little....

[nafpaktos]

That article is simply unbelievable. Why does Capito get to decide the future of the sport? If this really does go ahead, and I can't believe I am saying this, the WRC will be finished for me.
I think you haven't read carefully the article.wilson and nandan also commend the new format.it is what all teams want!
R.I.P WRC .

[nafpaktos]

"This can make it more attractive - we want the cars close together and fighting - and we need to know we can sell the television."

It's funny how they still think they will "sell the television"...

Why sell the TV? Who wants to sell the TV? --> A handful of greedy people who failed at making it in Formula One?

Manufacturers: You want return on investment? You want spectators? You want audience? You want readers for your press? You want to sell your cars to future fans of WRC?

ok, open up the rallies to all local and intl press and tv and radio for free, then wait a little....



If Capito thinks that hardcore fans are not needed I think he can continue playing whatever he likes without my attendance. Good bye WRC. I'm going to stick with ERC.

+100000000000000
And bye bye wrc,
Good morning ERC!

[Rally Power]

That article is simply unbelievable. Why does Capito get to decide the future of the sport?

It’s time for Mr. Todt to act! Even if there’s unanimity between manufacturers on this foolish plan he simply has to stop it and put some order in the house!

If RB/MH doesn’t know how to promote THIS sport and needs to sort out a ridicule version of it, FIA is entitled to end their contract and, once for all, give WRC promotion to Eurosport – they’ve already show they can do it properly by respecting rally’s nature!

[MJW]

Perhaps RBMH and the manufacturers, well Capito, Nandan and Wilson, (note Citroen not mentioned) think this is a better idea at building interest in wrc, maybe they missed the obvioys alternative, get fans to text into wrc.com at £1 or €1 per text who they think is fastest or more spectacular on the stage they were watching. Just think of the drama if a text vote and all if those text charges going to the promoter. ;-)

[MJW]

Meanwhile in IMG 's world we have big grids if 600bhp supercars driven by the likes of Petter, Villeneuve, Ekstrom, and allegedly Wurz and Button,......

[rallyfiend]

Meanwhile in IMG 's world we have big grids if 600bhp supercars driven by the likes of Petter, Villeneuve, Ekstrom, and allegedly Wurz and Button,......

Yeah, but who's paying attention?

By al accounts Lydden Hill had no more than about 5,000 per day attendance.

Most of the broadcast partners of RallyX are IMG's own channels.

[MJW]

Yeah, but who's paying attention?

By al accounts Lydden Hill had no more than about 5,000 per day attendance.

Most of the broadcast partners of RallyX are IMG's own channels.
I didnt know the attendance figures for Lydden, but I guess even though its the British home of rallycross its a long way from the heart of motorsport population. I am not suggesting Rally X is there yet but I hear more and more about it as a sport and the impression I get is that it is gaining popularity.

[Jack4688`]

I will not watch the WRC anymore. The ERC is miles better currently anyway. Eurosport Events know how to run a good championship so that'll do for me as a rally fan

[BDunnell]

This would be the end of the WRC — the form of world motorsport in which I first became interested — for me, too. Such a format would mean it ceased any longer to be 'rallying'. Easy for an aficionado to say, I know, but that's the way it is, without any over-reaction.

Where did it go so wrong? I fundamentally believe the reason lies in the way the FIA's chosen technical regulations have rendered the WRC's top-level cars out of the financial reach of national/local championships. It has reduced the talent pool of drivers and the amount of meaningful rallying available to spectators. As a result, the WRC suffers. With the greatest of respect to all involved, why would one wish to go and see, let alone watch on TV, a championship that bears little relation to the top level of the sport? The WRC was always strongest when there were strong national/regional series of quality running in parallel. The one time there existed a technical formula below the top WRC level that people found appealing, namely the Formula 2 rules of the mid-late-1990s, the FIA effectively canned it.

As for the supposed rise of rallycross, there's not much evidence of it yet. Rallycross used to be really big in the UK, thanks in no small part to BBC coverage — as quick-fire Saturday/Sunday-afternoon TV entertainment, with commentary from Murray Walker to match, it was ideal. In no way has the sport returned to those levels of popularity yet, at least in Britain. For it to do so, it requires mainstream, prime-time TV coverage. That's not about to happen. Even the British Touring Car Championship, which may not be to the taste of all but is thriving at present, can only be found on what amounts to a minority (albeit national, free-to-air) channel.

I see that someone, quite rightly, has mentioned above the possibility of Jean Todt intervening. I wouldn't bet on it. For all his talk, and the supposed benefits of his more 'hands-off' approach, can anyone name a single achievement of his time as FIA President?

[rallyfiend]

I see that someone, quite rightly, has mentioned above the possibility of Jean Todt intervening. I wouldn't bet on it. For all his talk, and the supposed benefits of his more 'hands-off' approach, can anyone name a single achievement of his time as FIA President?

He got the co-driver's names back on the rear windows!!!

[BDunnell]

He got the co-driver's names back on the rear windows!!!

How on earth could I have forgotten that? I take back everything I said.

[AndyRAC]

So this move is going to bring more TV and Manufacturers? Is that what they think?

Somebody earlier stated that the more they change it the less interest there is. Will there even be a WRC in 10 years?
I can't think of another sport that has sold itself down the river in the last 10-15 years.

What I find annoying is being told this is progress and we should swallow it. No we shouldn't....

[BDunnell]

So this move is going to bring more TV and Manufacturers? Is that what they think?

Somebody earlier stated that the more they change it the less interest there is. Will there even be a WRC in 10 years?

Are enough people currently interested even to know that it will change, let alone care?

[RAS007]

I will not watch the WRC anymore. The ERC is miles better currently anyway. Eurosport Events know how to run a good championship so that'll do for me as a rally fan

This^^^.

[RAS007]

Perhaps RBMH and the manufacturers, well Capito, Nandan and Wilson, (note Citroen not mentioned) think this is a better idea at building interest in wrc, maybe they missed the obvioys alternative, get fans to text into wrc.com at £1 or €1 per text who they think is fastest or more spectacular on the stage they were watching. Just think of the drama if a text vote and all if those text charges going to the promoter. ;-)

Why not have a panel at the finish, consisting of maybe Simon Cowell, Mel B and Gary Barlow, who have the final say as to who the winner is?

[BDunnell]

Why not have a panel at the finish, consisting of maybe Simon Cowell, Mel B and Gary Barlow, who have the final say as to who the winner is?

Can a mod please delete the above post? I'm concerned that someone at the FIA might read it and think it a seriously good idea.

[A FONDO]

I will not watch the WRC anymore. The ERC is miles better currently anyway. Eurosport Events know how to run a good championship so that'll do for me as a rally fan

And what will you actually watch in the irc? Lappi? Kajto? :snore:

[PLuto]

Can a mod please delete the above post? I'm concerned that someone at the FIA might read it and think it a seriously good idea.

Dont be afraid, people from FIA are reading this forum. And all interesting proposals they are writing to their list "not to do".

[PLuto]

And what will you actually watch in the irc? Lappi? Kajto? :snore:

IRC is not existing anymore. Now it is ERC. And yes, with drivers like Lappi and Kajto it is usually more interesting than WRC...

[Mirek]

And what will you actually watch in the irc? Lappi? Kajto? :snore:

A RALLY? What else will be left if WRC is not going to be a rally anymore?And for Your information IRC has not been existing for 1,5 years already...

[nafpaktos]

IRC is not existing anymore. Now it is ERC. And yes, with drivers like Lappi and Kajto it is usually more interesting than WRC...
I totally agree.also if wrc is not rally but something else,then why follow it??????i love rallies ,wrc will be a different sport so i don't want to follow it.ERC will be the best solution for us in the future.i also believe that eurosport maybe will turn erc to irc again,in order to have a really word championsip,so no problem for us.

[AndyRAC]

I worry that the 'lower' series will follow suit. I hope not.

I have a theory, possibly cynical, but anyway; RedBull have had no intention of properly promoting the WRC in its current format. They have a close relationship with the VW group, have they been plotting this for a while? Turning the WRC into WRC-lite, and with a 'shoot out' they will then start promoting properly.

They could have done much more from the word go; they have RedBullTV - a perfect platform for the WRC highlights/ live coverage. And they haven't used it. Preferring to sell rights to TV stations, mostly subscription channels.....

[nafpaktos]

And what will you actually watch in the irc? Lappi? Kajto? :snore:
Because they will compete to a REALLY rally championship and not to a farce championsip.also you think that lappi is not a high class driver????????????how many drivers in the wrc you really think are better to lappi this moment.2-3??so...........

[the sniper]

If this gets through, which it seems it will, this is the last season of the WRC for me. It'll be dead to me after Rally GB. How can they have the nerve to completely change the core format of how a rally works, a format to which the WRC has basically ran for 40 years, and just do it with almost complete indifference. And why is this being done? Seemingly solely to seal all these fantastic TV deals that are suddenly going to be magicked up by WRC Promoter/Red Bull (once someone has actually woken them up), courtesy of an 'event' being set up by a short two day qualifying rally with a spattering of points on offer, followed by a series of equations, and decided over one short single stage shootout... How can the four (well, Citroen have been quiet, so maybe three) manufacturers operating in the 'pinnacle' Championship of the disciple of rallying just decide that, all of a sudden, the Championship should run to a completely different format to virtually ever other rally in the world. How can they just ignore the long history and principals of this discipline, or knowingly p*ss all over them, and go in a new direction, creating a new sport out of the old one. How can the FIA even contemplate this?!

I've only followed the WRC for just over 10 years and attended Rally GB since 2012, so a relative newcomer compared to most of you. I came in towards the end of the last 'boom'. I've stuck with it through the rough years, years of two manufactures battling over short rallies, often dominated by a Sebastian, increasingly having to access footage via the web and niche satellite TV channels. I always imagined, hoped, that one day, the WRC would get back around to a peak like those seen in the late 70s, mid 80s and late 90s/early 2000s. What with VW and Hyundai coming in, the new promoter and talk of Toyota being on the cusp of a return I had been more hopeful for the future of the WRC at the start of 2014, but with this unnecessary re-imagining of the very concept of rallying, all interest has been killed off for me.

Jost Capito seems to infer that us fans should like it or lump it. Well, I for one will be walking away. Many disappointing decisions have been made over the history of the WRC, but this is just one step too far. Here's hoping the ERC picks up some momentum...

[N.O.T]

Lets first see the changes and then all you little girls can gather and cry... or just follow the ladycup ERC... it will be better for all.

[BDunnell]

I totally agree.also if wrc is not rally but something else,then why follow it??????i love rallies ,wrc will be a different sport so i don't want to follow it.ERC will be the best solution for us in the future.i also believe that eurosport maybe will turn erc to irc again,in order to have a really word championsip,so no problem for us.

With all due respect to it, the ERC today is a second-rank championship, both in terms of cars and drivers. As such it will always be of limited appeal. I don't see it as the solution for anyone except a relatively few die-hards. Never has it, or the IRC, greatly appealed to me.

[BDunnell]

I worry that the 'lower' series will follow suit. I hope not.

I have a theory, possibly cynical, but anyway; RedBull have had no intention of properly promoting the WRC in its current format. They have a close relationship with the VW group, have they been plotting this for a while? Turning the WRC into WRC-lite, and with a 'shoot out' they will then start promoting properly.

They could have done much more from the word go; they have RedBullTV - a perfect platform for the WRC highlights/ live coverage. And they haven't used it. Preferring to sell rights to TV stations, mostly subscription channels.....

Makes perfect sense, unless there is some legal reason (monopolies regulations?) as to why they're not allowed to broadcast the championship over their own platform.

[BDunnell]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned: the simpler a format for a sporting event the better, in my view. Here is how 'Autosport' has described part of the planned changes to the WRC:

'The new version of the format will offer points at the end of each day and a performance weighting in the shootout to reward being fastest throughout the rally.

If, for example, the driver in first place heading into the decider has been a tenth of a second per mile faster across the whole event than the driver in second place, then they will take that advantage multiplied by the stage distance into the shootout. So, if the final test was 10 miles, the quicker driver would start with a one-second time advantage.'

Just imagine trying to explain that to the layman on the TV! Ridiculous.

[wrc1600]

"I think this is a good proposal, it can improve the show and make it more easy to present to television," said Nandan.

Can someone explain me how this nonsense would make it more easy to present to tv? How is it different from Sunday stages now? They drive flat out Power Stage to get bonus points already, and factory drivers are always on it often saving tyres on previous stages. The rest of the drives have nothing to win or loose anyway. Also if there will be odd numbers of crews then what will happen to the last one, who do they compete against?

[Allyc85]

The shoot out idea is ridiculous, and only really liked by those who have made it up, the performance balancing for it is beyond fascicle! As someone has said how the hell do you explain that to a casual fan!

Bloody unbelievable :(

[Mirek]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned: the simpler a format for a sporting event the better, in my view. Here is how 'Autosport' has described part of the planned changes to the WRC:

'The new version of the format will offer points at the end of each day and a performance weighting in the shootout to reward being fastest throughout the rally.

If, for example, the driver in first place heading into the decider has been a tenth of a second per mile faster across the whole event than the driver in second place, then they will take that advantage multiplied by the stage distance into the shootout. So, if the final test was 10 miles, the quicker driver would start with a one-second time advantage.'

Just imagine trying to explain that to the layman on the TV! Ridiculous.

+1

[AndyRAC]

Er, hello - there won't be any casual fans - as already said, the casuals want something simple to watch - not something requiring a calculator. In their rush to gain the casuals - they're losing their main followers. Not clever. Do these people have a brain cell between them?

[N.O.T]

Nobody follows a motorsport for its rules... most people follow it depending on how attractive/spectacular it is and the people manufacturers involved in it... Lets wait and see IF the changes are implemented and then we can judge the final; product... as i said you can organise a rally anonymous group and cry like little girls all day watching ladycup ERC.

[Lundefaret]

I think that this new format can be described quite simple, I have given it a try my self:

The shootout
(That is not a shootout!!!)

Explanation: If the driver in first place heading into the final stage shootout (that is not a shootout!!!) has been a tenth of a second per kilometer faster across the whole event than the driver in second place, then they will take that advantage multiplied by the stage distance into The SHOOTOUT (that is absolutely not a shootout!!!) so now in THE SUPER SHOOTOUT (that is in no f#%& way a shootout) they will start with a one second advantage in THE Super Grand Last Stage Magic SHOOTOUT (that has no F#$% way ever been a f&%$ shootout!!!!!!)

From the FIA (that is really not the FIA), and the Promotor (wich really dont promote): Could this possibly be made any simpler??? Okay, that is if You want to make something really difficult, then this is quite simple, no??? (First man wins is for chickens!) This is German engineering, so piss off! And comeback, and watch the show! But if You say that the shootout is a shootout, because it is not a f#%& shootout, an never has been a f$%& shootout, and never will be a f#&% shootout, we may have to kill you.

But joke aside, I think we have to see this in action before we judge it too hard. If this is what RedBull needs to really promotoe the sport, then they should be given a chance. But I do think, that a format where You split each rally in two, one endurance part, and one TV-stage, would be a lot simpler to understand;)

[Franky]

Nobody follows a motorsport for its rules... most people follow it depending on how attractive/spectacular it is and the people manufacturers involved in it...

Yes, no one doesn't follow a sport because of the rules, but if the rules become overcomplicated then the whole thing will be harder to understand for the average Joe (the KISS principle). And if you piss off the core fanbase and they stop following your championship, then you won't just need to find more Joes but you need to find the new diehard fans as well. A group of Joes going to a rally with the trunk full of alcohol won't become diehard fans, okey, the probability is very slim. I've seen guys sleeping in snow hugging their Jäger bottles before the start of first stage at 8am. If a Joe attends a rally with a in a good sense mad fan, then there is a chance that the guy will start following the sport and the championship more closely.

All of us are waiting to get a clear picture of what is coming but the small pieces of news aren't the most encouraging and it's worth discussing the concerns. Next step would be voicing the opinions to the governing bodies. I guess even you wouldn't be happy if boxing turned into a WWE circus.

If the people in charge want more Joes, then they should start promoting better. The content is there. Went to the WRC.com's Youtube page over a few years and the first video I saw was a "teaser" for this season. Then I searched for an IRC promo from 2010 and one defining promo from the North One era. Decide yourself, which is better. Just note that the North One promo has a different function than the other two.
WRC 2014 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MySOesp5G0E
IRC 2010 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFDQa6tlfPo
WRC 2009 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siqQqI3Vdp4

[Eli]

yep the IRC is the best there by a long shot.

[BDunnell]

Nobody follows a motorsport for its rules...

Forget motorsport specifically: I think that's a moot point. Of course rules have a bearing on the success of one sport against another. Why is snooker a bigger sport internationally than pool? Why didn't other forms of football and tennis catch on? Deep down, it's all in the rules.

[BDunnell]

Er, hello - there won't be any casual fans - as already said, the casuals want something simple to watch - not something requiring a calculator.

So do I, as an enthusiast, want something simple to watch. I suspect I'm not alone in that. Where's the enjoyment in something complex? Recent F1 qualifying rules spring to mind.

One problem with the shoot-out as proposed is that, as mentioned by another poster above, the quickest driver in it may still not end up winning. How is that helpful?

[RAS007]

"I think this is a good proposal, it can improve the show and make it more easy to present to television," said Nandan.

Can someone explain me how this nonsense would make it more easy to present to tv? How is it different from Sunday stages now? They drive flat out Power Stage to get bonus points already, and factory drivers are always on it often saving tyres on previous stages. The rest of the drives have nothing to win or loose anyway. Also if there will be odd numbers of crews then what will happen to the last one, who do they compete against?

+1

[OldF]

IMO the shootout, or could it be called the final duel, would ruin the spirit of rallying what rallying is about, the endurance performance. I would say that in rallying it’s impossible to do a perfect performance every single second without any mistakes compared to circuit racing where the conditions are known and it’s easier to drive the optimum lines on every lap. Why in HE*L should the fastest driver been punished if he / she makes a small mistake in this shootout and loose a comfortable margin.

What about if the difference between second and third is only 0,1 second before this last “shootout stage”? In this shootout format the third one would be at the best third and in the worst case fourth compared to second in the traditional (and the correct one) way.

In the interview by Colin Clark with Jost Capito, (http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/media/podcasts/page/114--80--.html) Jost Capito says that a “shootout” can’t be a separate event to a WRC rally but he’s still gives as an example the FAFE rallysprint with 100.000 spectators, which was not a part of Rally Portugal but related to the rally.

If rallying wants more fans imo the only way is to have more of these “Fafe rallysprints” with easy access before a rally and broadcasted on free view channels. This would give for the potential future fans the opportunity to plan the rally weekend for spectating the rally. Also advertising info how to get to the stages and the itinerary of the rally would help the occasional fans how to find “easy access” to the rally.

If WRC want some more media attention, this post by Antony Warmbold (an excellent one) would not for sure help WRC get any more media coverage (http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?33345-WRC-News-amp-rumours-%28part-III%29&p=997229&viewfull=1#post997229

Just my few cents and humble opinions.

[Eli]

https://www.facebook.com/WorldRally?fref=nf

[OldF]

https://www.facebook.com/WorldRally?fref=nf

http://www.motorsport4sale.com/nyheter/premiaren-narmar-sig-for-svenska-mitsubishi-r5/

”Hans-Erik Weng på plats bredvid den läckra rallybilen berättade att om allt går som planerat blir det tester i rallyskogen i slutet på juli.”

If everything goes as planned the testing of the car starts at the end of July.

[makinen_fan]

Maybe the best tweet by the promoters so far!! And yet its the format that is to blame for the low fan numbers... Seriously WHO is in charge of this account?

Top footballer @neymarjr (https://twitter.com/neymarjr) being filmed by top motorsport cameramen tonight - WRCTV's Paddy Tyndall in action #wrc (https://twitter.com/hashtag/wrc?src=hash) pic.twitter.com/nVt4y59ckl (http://t.co/nVt4y59ckl)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqXKYAACYAAxIPi.jpg
(https://twitter.com/OfficialWRC/status/479011453123715072/photo/1)

[Mk2 RS2000]

Instead of Shakedown, why not run a Rallysprint to determine start orders for the real rally that follows.
Associated with this run a championship for the rallysprint.
That way one could utilise the Rallysprint to gain exposure and hopefully gain a proper following for the true rally

[N.O.T]

Instead of Shakedown, why not run a Rallysprint to determine start orders for the real rally that follows.
Associated with this run a championship for the rallysprint.
That way one could utilise the Rallysprint to gain exposure and hopefully gain a proper following for the true rally

welcome to last year.

[Mk2 RS2000]

welcome to last year.

Back to the future mate.

[paddocknews]

@MNRally
In this week's MN: full details of a new plan for mid-stage tyre change 'pit stops' to spice up #WRC events. What do you think of the idea?
https://twitter.com/MNRally/status/479180696154820608

[Mirek]

http://i.idnes.cz/12/082/cl6/PKA45351a_double_facepalm.jpg

Seriously the circus gets beyond stupidity...

[AndyRAC]

Surely a late April's fool joke......???

You know a sport is in trouble when they keep comng up with ridiculous suggestions......

How about reverting to when the sport was successful? It might just work... ;)

[Priorat]

Itinerary for Catalunya 2014 unveiled:
http://www.rallyracc.com/2014/catalan/itinerario.html

Back to 2012 style with only minor change in last km's of long stage Priorat / Escaladei (for the good IMHO).

Same stages repeated year after year after year...

[makinen_fan]

And you thought that it could not get any more stupid, here it goes:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114499?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

They implemented the stupid remote service rule where you have mechanics but no spares for the car and now they thinking of introducing this... This is something that makes sense for cost cutting !! FIA and RBMH are morons in my view (sorry mods for the language)

[Eli]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/june/capito-technical/page/1481--12-12-.html
funny it's comming from Jost Capito...

[Allyc85]

In a way he does have a point, as changes can cost a hell of a lot! The change from 2.0t to 1.6t and smaller cars hardly made a huge difference in the end.

As the for the mid stage tyre changes they can just F right off! What are these people smoking? How the hell is it going to help the sport?

[Mirek]

By the way has somebody followed 24 Hours of Le Mans? I found very interesting that they managed to create very free rules under which all the three main contenders were able to lead the race for some time despite having very different power unit (Audi - 4.0 V6 turbo diesel with low-level recuperation into flywheel KERS; Porsche - 2.0 V4 turbo petrol with high-level recuperation into batteries; Toyota - 3.7 V6 atmospheric petrol with high-level recuperation into supercapacitors). In the end the race was decided by mechanical failures.

[AndyRAC]

By the way has somebody followed 24 Hours of Le Mans? I found very interesting that they managed to create very free rules under which all the three main contenders were able to lead the race for some time despite having very different power unit (Audi - 4.0 V6 turbo diesel with low-level recuperation into flywheel KERS; Porsche - 2.0 V4 turbo petrol with high-level recuperation into batteries; Toyota - 3.7 V6 atmospheric petrol with high-level recuperation into supercapacitors). In the end the race was decided by mechanical failures.

Yes, I followed it - very clever and free rules and 3 different solutions to the question set by the ACO/ FiA. And next year Nissan will join with another solution. There may be the odd problem with BoP, but in the main it works.
I hate to say it in a WRC forum - but Sportscars is way ahead of the WRC - and the TV coverage isn't a lot better. Yet it's successful. They don't think of silly rules to make it exciting - it's still as it's always been. Why can't the WRC take notice.

[makinen_fan]

How do they regulate their performance since all have different approach? Monitoring fuel consumption?

[Mirek]

It's quite complicated, there are many factors limiting the performance but they completely get rid of engine volume limit and restrictors. Basically they set an energy limit available during three rounds long period. I don't follow it closely so I can't tell You exact rules but the combination of many factors allow many combinations how to achieve similar result.

[janvanvurpa]

http://i.idnes.cz/12/082/cl6/PKA45351a_double_facepalm.jpg

Seriously the circus gets beyond stupidity...

Mirekski if you had not come up with that, then I would have...
As somebody said "WRC has definitely jumped the shark".

What next? Reversing and parking under the clock?

[tommeke_B]

FIA did a relatively good job with making R5/RRC/S2000 pretty much equal in speed. I think the deciding factor (in most events) still is the driver. :) Anyway, tired with Capito's desire to mess up our sport, like a politician, just wanting to change something, wanting to put a "stamp" on something, wether it's a good thing or not...

But what concerns me most of all, is the lack of response to all this bullshit from other people closely involved in rallying. No public response from drivers, codrivers, team-managers, organizers etc to this shit. It's like nobody dares to say anything. Everybody is quietly complaining in stead of doing something about it (the moment is now!)...

[AndyRAC]

I actually tweeted a few hours ago asking if any a Motorsport journalists were going to start asking questions about these stupid ideas. None of the current WRC journalists will ask tough questions - so I hope WRC fans who are Motoring journalists, and there are a few, will start asking.

[A FONDO]

And you thought that it could not get any more stupid, here it goes:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114499?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

They implemented the stupid remote service rule where you have mechanics but no spares for the car and now they thinking of introducing this... This is something that makes sense for cost cutting !! FIA and RBMH are morons in my view (sorry mods for the language)

Did you read that stages will become 80 kilometers long?

[rallyfun]

Did you read that stages will become 80 kilometers long?

What does it change? They have 2 spares these days in 100+ loop anyway and don't have to stop on stage to change them.

[A FONDO]

What does it change? They have 2 spares these days in 100+ loop anyway and don't have to stop on stage to change them.

Do you really not know the difference? Why embarass yourself? When the loop is divided in several 20 km stages, tyres can cool down, also drivers rotate them several times. With one long stage they can go flatout, no tactics, no preserving.
Many offroad events do it and nobody complains.

The only way to make long stages without mid-stops is to use very hard tyres, and hard tyres mean less grip > less speed > less spectacle.

[Lundefaret]

Do you really not know the difference? Why embarass yourself? When the loop is divided in several 20 km stages, tyres can cool down, also drivers rotate them several times. With one long stage they can go flatout, no tactics, no preserving.
Many offroad events do it and nobody complains.

The only way to make long stages without mid-stops is to use very hard tyres, and hard tyres mean less grip > less speed > less spectacle.

Hard tires > Less grip > less speed > MORE spectacle > higher safety

Mid stage pit stops was one of Fiorios tactics on the Monte to challenge the 4WD Audis with the 2WD 037, and is nothing new.

What I would like to see is the service/mechanics part be a part of the spectacle. Now it is a time limit on the service, but no gain if You finish earlier than Your limit. Why not let this be a part of the competition also?

I would also like to see a return of the remote service. To prevent this being a speeding frenzy, one could regulate the service vans with time cards etc, so that they would be part of a rally whit in the rally.

[A FONDO]

Spectacle is going flatout in tight corners, not cars losing control. Higher safety with cars moving all over the place, like the arhaic gr. B? Really? Higher safety with mechanics in a hurry, forgetting to tighten bolts and nuts?

[Lundefaret]

Spectacle is going flatout in tight corners, not cars losing control. Higher safety with cars moving all over the place, like the arhaic gr. B? Really? Higher safety with mechanics in a hurry, forgetting to tighten bolts and nuts?

Regarding cars:

I think we must agree on that the more speed You carry when You go off the road, the more potential damage to the car and its inhabitants, no?

I think we also must agree that higher levels of grip, the more speed You carry when changing direction.

If we also agree that its the points of direction change that represents the highest risk of going of (turns.)

Then we can conclude with the fact that higher grip, equals higher speed in the risk areas, wich again equals more violent accidents.

There is a common misunderstanding in motorsport that to increese safety, You decreese engine power. This is the route that has been taken in rallying post group B.
This is not effective against getting speed down in corners, where speed is at its most dangerous.

To limit grip one have to regulate tires, suspension travel, and aerodynamic help.

Would limited grip cause the drivers to loose control? Off cource not. They would have better controll in the risk aereas beqause this would happen over a longer stretch of time (more time to react), and with lower speed.

Group B cars had their worst accidents on high grip surfaces, like Toivonen on the tarmac of Corsica, and during extremly high speed, like Vatanen in Argentina.
On gravel and snow their power vs grip factor was actually very good (safe), tough their construction was not (the placing of fuel tanks and so on.)
The modern day WRC car represents a higher risk, beqause of the higher speeds in the corners (even carrying the extra weight), but compensate some what by their much safer build.

Regarding mechanics:

I do not agree that the mechanics would suddenly forget to tighten bolts if they where part of the competition to an even higher extent. These are proffesional mechanics.

[BDunnell]

Spectacle is going flatout in tight corners, not cars losing control. Higher safety with cars moving all over the place, like the arhaic gr. B? Really? Higher safety with mechanics in a hurry, forgetting to tighten bolts and nuts?

All part of the challenge of the sport, surely?

I know I'm not alone in considering the current breed of WRC cars to be extremely dull precisely because they can look like they run on rails.

[wrc45]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6wEjQdxSTA

Amazing video of Rally Sardegna.

[rallyfun]

Do you really not know the difference? Why embarass yourself? When the loop is divided in several 20 km stages, tyres can cool down, also drivers rotate them several times. With one long stage they can go flatout, no tactics, no preserving.
Many offroad events do it and nobody complains.

The only way to make long stages without mid-stops is to use very hard tyres, and hard tyres mean less grip > less speed > less spectacle.

radiculous

[Francis44]

An FWD parody...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEi3PLeEARs

How much ignorance a man needs to write some BS like that...

Just a bit unfortunate that all of that footage is on tarmac, where FWD cars are actually able to be competitive at times. In a WRC championship where 80% of the events run on slippery surfaces, that formula would not go anywhere.

[AndyRAC]

Just a bit unfortunate that all of that footage is on tarmac, where FWD cars are actually able to be competitive at times. In a WRC championship where 80% of the events run on slippery surfaces, that formula would not go anywhere.

If it's a true World Championship - then surely it needs an more even split between surfaces; not mainly gravel. And adding more Tarmac events also makes it more 'road relevant'.

[nafpaktos]

@MNRally
In this week's MN: full details of a new plan for mid-stage tyre change 'pit stops' to spice up #WRC events. What do you think of the idea?
https://twitter.com/MNRally/status/479180696154820608
Stupid idea, they try to mimic f1 tactics in order to increase the tv numbers.they said that the pit stop could be to a village where spectators can watch the whole operation.i wonder who will go to see the pit stop and not an interesting corner?the answer is the irrelevant to our sport spectators.so the fia and the whole circus is not interested at all for the real rally funs.
Here a video of a pit stop from the group b era.notice the Peugeot that overtakes the lancia!!!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=ay2bzaI1Qa4

P.S read the text which explains the procedure,it is under the video!

[Barreis]

They can go...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114544

[Franky]

Stupid idea, they try to mimic f1 tactics in order to increase the tv numbers.they said that the pit stop could be to a village where spectators can watch the whole operation.i wonder who will go to see the pit stop and not an interesting corner?the answer is the irrelevant to our sport spectators.so the fia and the whole circus is not interested at all for the real rally funs.
Here a video of a pit stop from the group b era.notice the Peugeot that overtakes the lancia!!!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=ay2bzaI1Qa4

P.S read the text which explains the procedure,it is under the video!

The link is fir the Viru Ralli 2014 massive BMW jump.

[nafpaktos]

Sorry!
Here ----->>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpNma9_7sNg&app=desktop

[rallyfiend]

WRC ‏@OfficialWRC 38m
2 Extra LIVE for TV Stages @RallyFinland SS4 on Thursday and SS13 on Friday both at 20h30 Local time - Great news for WRC fans! #WRC

Both runs of Harju being done Live. Good news.

[dimviii]

They can go...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114544

ridiculous Capito.

[nafpaktos]

I tend to believe that capito is just RMH &WV PUPPET.

[RAS007]

They can go...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114544

Feel free to leave any time Jost, and take your fucking shoot out with you.

[N.O.T]

I think all you girls are over reacting to suggestions, because that is what they are for the moment.

And even if they are implemented they will go away if they do not fly after a year or so, i think currently the situation in the WRC is ideal to test some changes. I do not like the pit stop thing but i would like to see if the shootout thing will bring some more action.

Of course there is always the ladycup ERC for the "hardcore" fans to see a bunch of never beens fight with has beens and never will be drivers.

[stefanvv]

Frankly, I begin to like this so called "shoot out", seems to me will bring more action and drivers will have to work little harder for their positions. Of course it is only theoretical so far.

[stefanvv]

They can go...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114544

VW going will be disaster for the championship (but I don't support "shoot out" for that reason). All cried all those years for Loeb + Citroen dominance, if VW goes away, it'll be the same with only 2 manufacturers.

[skarderud]

well, its time for some changes in the wrc, but i dont think this is the way eighter.
one of the biggest changes with the possible best effect is to ban the ridiculous homologation rule.
then the manufactures is out of the game, yes, but we will see many more different cars, drivers, team, fans and so on. in a much lower expense for everyone. its few manu's in the formula classes also, if the fia would get a homologation rule thru a manu, the formula one would be dead too.

get rid of the manu's, then we have several teams like msport, kronos, adapta, +++++ that could build and run different cars, make an easy rulebook that suits private teams, of course many of them would have some support from different carmakers, and of course those with the biggest budget would have, atleast a change to have, the best car. but this is motorsport and thats how it is.
then we can get those heroes we had for a long time ago, win a event in a selfbuild car, against all odds, lots of teams and cars on the start, cars would probably brake down easier, but that was a part of the game to.

[N.O.T]

well, its time for some changes in the wrc, but i dont think this is the way eighter.
one of the biggest changes with the possible best effect is to ban the ridiculous homologation rule.
then the manufactures is out of the game, yes, but we will see many more different cars, drivers, team, fans and so on. in a much lower expense for everyone. its few manu's in the formula classes also, if the fia would get a homologation rule thru a manu, the formula one would be dead too.

get rid of the manu's, then we have several teams like msport, kronos, adapta, +++++ that could build and run different cars, make an easy rulebook that suits private teams, of course many of them would have some support from different carmakers, and of course those with the biggest budget would have, atleast a change to have, the best car. but this is motorsport and thats how it is.
then we can get those heroes we had for a long time ago, win a event in a selfbuild car, against all odds, lots of teams and cars on the start, cars would probably brake down easier, but that was a part of the game to.

so allow just rich nobodies surrounded by yes men to take part in the WRC... Brilliant idea.

[skarderud]

so allow just rich nobodies surrounded by yes men to take part in the WRC... Brilliant idea.

like today you mean?

[stefanvv]

well, its time for some changes in the wrc, but i dont think this is the way eighter.
one of the biggest changes with the possible best effect is to ban the ridiculous homologation rule.
then the manufactures is out of the game, yes, but we will see many more different cars, drivers, team, fans and so on. in a much lower expense for everyone. its few manu's in the formula classes also, if the fia would get a homologation rule thru a manu, the formula one would be dead too.

get rid of the manu's, then we have several teams like msport, kronos, adapta, +++++ that could build and run different cars, make an easy rulebook that suits private teams, of course many of them would have some support from different carmakers, and of course those with the biggest budget would have, atleast a change to have, the best car. but this is motorsport and thats how it is.
then we can get those heroes we had for a long time ago, win a event in a selfbuild car, against all odds, lots of teams and cars on the start, cars would probably brake down easier, but that was a part of the game to.

I support the idea for more free rules as well. As someone mentioned here already, look what happens in WEC. The technical rules are free, but with some respect to the layout. The same could be evolution in WRC, avoiding the insane GrB again. I also like local drivers with lower budgets to score great results in WRC Rallies, that is one of the spices of the championship. But this couldn't happen in next 2 years. Probably 2017 will bring something and Toyota are preparing for it?!?

[N.O.T]

like today you mean?

what i ment was allowing the tourists of nothingness to be in the spotlight. Today they just take part and they provide entertainment with heir useless doggy skills... if manufacturers go away they will buy their way to the top.

[AndyRAC]

Manufacturers want to be in the WEC because they can showcase new/future road relevant technology - in fact the rules encourage this. I can't imagine that happening in the WRC - at least not at the moment.

The WRC doesn't need gimmicks, 'shoot outs' or 'pit stops'....it just needs promoting properly. I really think it's that simple. The WRC doesn't need watering down any more. Enough is enough. If VW don't like the current format - they shouldn't have joined.

[stefanvv]

The WRC doesn't need gimmicks, 'shoot outs' or 'pit stops'....it just needs promoting properly. I really think it's that simple. The WRC doesn't need watering down any more. Enough is enough. If VW don't like the current format - they shouldn't have joined.

WRC has many problems, and promotion is one of them. It needs all the problem parts to be made to "work" together as well designed machine. The promotion can be made lot better with current format of course, but still there will be other problems still existing. The good thing about "shoot our" is that will make current sunday action lot better, now it is, well boring... but not only that part. Most importantly, I don't see any less endurance aspect in that proposal. On the contrary - crews seem to be more endurance affected by it. I don't know what to say about "pitstops" though:)

[anstis]

My biggest issue with this shootout (that's not a shootout) is that times are adjusted to create artificial entertainment. And I think it really goes against the integrity of the sport to adjust the times of the competing cars (ok, maybe with the exception of an assessed time when a competitor is forced to stop for a reason beyond their control, but that's quite different). I think artifically manufacturing a closer result is probably only going to appeal to those with a 30 second attention spans and will not be effective or sustainable. I think if you were looking for a longer term solution you should be aiming to promote a sport with substance, not promoting it with gimmicks.

[Mk2 RS2000]

I think artifically manufacturing a closer result is probably only going to appeal to those with a 30 second attention spans.

Which is right in the comfort zone of those of you who have never stood by the fire and felt its heat.

[Frostmourne]

Sorry but, is it possible to keep this thread purely for News and rumours as the title say, and we have another thread for nice discussions as we always have.

Since most of us are against this shootout idea because it is making it complicated, i think this thread also became complicated as well, lets make it easier for everyone by having two different threads for "News and Rumours" and "WRC Discussion" or something similar :)

[Plan9]

Does anyone know when M-Sport will start using the facelifted Fiesta?

[Eli]

probably finland

[PLuto]

Not this year.

[Eli]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/int/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2014/06/24/renault-stellt-den-clio-r3t-vor/index.html#.U6qUmJSSyUY please Renault join the WRC after VW stops ruining it.

[makinen_fan]

Capito keeps going on about the shootout thing:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114628

[focus206]

Capito keeps going on about the shootout thing:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114628

What criticism is he talking about? I don't know about any driver/team who criticized the shootouts, journalists?

[Bruce D]

Probably people who have just told him straight to his face that he is an idiot. I don't understand why he even got into rallying if he wants to change all the fundamentals completely.

[skarderud]

Maybe he reads this forum?:)

[mohit]

I personally feel FIA should make rally format similar to rallies in 1980's along with adoption of same styled service as, that will bring fans much closer to the sport.

FIA should add more competitive kilometers instead of road section kilometers.

[Duvel]

I personally feel FIA should make rally format similar to rallies in 1980's along with adoption of same styled service as, that will bring fans much closer to the sport.

FIA should add more competitive kilometers instead of road section kilometers.

Would be great to be even closer to the sport. On the other hand, in Sardenga we went to the remote service in Bodusso, getting much closer whit teams/drivers/mechanics would mean that you are a member of a team i think. Standing next to Solberg, Gilsoul, talking to Bouffier, and hearing what Neuville has to say about the problem on his car, great moment that rally.

[mousti]

For 2015, P1/2 drivers will do min 3 passages at Shakedown "to provide greater media and promotional opportunities." #WRC

Let's hope they do that too in the ERC, because QS on Ypres, was boring as hell!

[Mirek]

For 2015, P1/2 drivers will do min 3 passages at Shakedown "to provide greater media and promotional opportunities." #WRC

Let's hope they do that too in the ERC, because QS on Ypres, was boring as hell!

They did three runs in Ypres as well. The problem of QS is that they are NOT allowed to do more SD runs after QS.

[mousti]

I think that's what meant 3 runs in actual SD afterwards. Because in WRC they do already 2 FP runs and 1 QS run like in ERC.

[makinen_fan]

I think that's what meant 3 runs in actual SD afterwards. Because in WRC they do already 2 FP runs and 1 QS run like in ERC.

There is no QS run this year, just 2 mandatory passes for FP

[mousti]

Just remove that whole QS system, definately for tarmac..

[vino_93]

QS can be a good media product if it's rightly used. As it's not, it's uninteresting for rally.

[Eli]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2014/06/26/fia-beschliesst-shakedown-aenderung/index.html#.U61SfZSSyUY

[Eli]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/index.php?id=336&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=69492#.U66gA5SSyUY but with this year's results I doubt they'll want to continue.

[denkimi]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/int/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2014/06/24/renault-stellt-den-clio-r3t-vor/index.html#.U6qUmJSSyUY please Renault join the WRC after VW stops ruining it.

it sounds awful. like a diesel on 3 cilinders.

[Eli]

let's hope the R5 will sound better

[almostracing]

thought this might interest those who are competing in rally. Nothing to buy, just email them. :D

145

[Mirek]

Update of my post from CoI thread. Maybe somebody is interested...

Bellow are the numbers for crews which actually passed scrutineering of international events in international field. Red are events bellow average, blue upon average number of participants.

2014:

WRC

Monte Carlo 68
Sweden 39
Mexico 26
Portugal 84
Argentina 29
Sardegna 51
Poland 68

Average 52

ERC

Jänner 79
Liepaja 56
Acropolis 29
Circuit of Ireland 32
Acores 42
Ypres 94

Average 55

Highest international participants so far in 2014: Ypres 94
Lowest international participants so far in 2014: Mexico 26

2013:

WRC

Monte Carlo 73
Sweden 43
Mexico 25
Portugal 70
Argentina 32
Acropolis 46
Sardegna 51
Finland 96
Deutschland 76
Australia 29
Alsace 82
Catalunya 59
Wales 56

Average 57

ERC

Jänner 84
Liepaja 37
Canarias 27
Acores 37
Corse 51
Ypres 99
Sibiu 37
Barum 90
Poland 64
Croatia 60
Sanremo 53
Valais 68

Average 59

Highest international participants in 2013: Ypres 99
Lowest international participants in 2013: Mexico 25

[Eli]

http://www.rally.it/dalla-germania-opel-corsa-wrc/ more likely a rumour but i really hope they come to the WRC and kick VW's ass.

[EightGear]

http://www.rally.it/dalla-germania-opel-corsa-wrc/ more likely a rumour but i really hope they come to the WRC and kick VW's ass.

"The German newspaper Rallye-Magazine published a picture of the future Opel Corsa WRC, for now it is only a hypothesis and to tell the truth, the Germans do not believe much in the news."

Useless article again. That magazine once published a picture of a possible Mercedes WRC, which was fantasy as well.

[focus206]

Useless article again. That magazine once published a picture of a possible Mercedes WRC, which was fantasy as well.

I agree. Btw it also says that next week, on the same magazine, details about it will be published.

[Oppositelock]

To be fair, rallye magazin clearly states in the stories are only speculation/fantasy/hopes

[donlorean]

I've seen that pic from Opel also and told that it's R5 class car...

[Sardalense]

About Capito's ideas for 2015, listen to what the commentator says at 2:00. More simple than that is not possible ;) Maybe in 2015 it will be necessary a 26 minute programme to explain the WRC rules.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pHFxbDaQUc

[dimviii]

http://liveimages.motoring.com.au/motoring/general/editorial/ge5540104527481259571.jpg

http://m.motoring.com.au/news/small-passenger/toyota/yaris/motorsport-toyota-wrc-decision-in-2014-44402

[Lundefaret]

http://liveimages.motoring.com.au/motoring/general/editorial/ge5540104527481259571.jpg

http://m.motoring.com.au/news/small-passenger/toyota/yaris/motorsport-toyota-wrc-decision-in-2014-44402

Its a political game going on here. VW and Capito is holding their contribution "hostage" to them getting their way regarding regulations, promoting and vision. Toyota is doing kind of the same thing. The question is if these to giants view of the future of the WRC can coincide?
VW wants the same regulations as per today, or only small variations. Hyundai and M-sport agree on this. Toyota has been very open about their which to make a hybrid WRC-car, and that allowing a hybrid can be the make or brake for them. The question is if one can allow Toyota to race a hybrid against the regular WRC-cars from the other teams.
Earlier in rallying You had turbo/non turbo, different engine sizes, two wheel and four wheel drive, and rules that would try to equalize the speed of the cars, just like Le Mans today.
TMG seems very motivated to return to WRC, and even offering up the possibility of creating customer cars at good prices.
Hmmm... Seems that the sport of rallying is catching some wind in its sails;)

[Rallyper]

Its a political game going on here. VW and Capito is holding their contribution "hostage" to them getting their way regarding regulations, promoting and vision. Toyota is doing kind of the same thing. The question is if these to giants view of the future of the WRC can coincide?
VW wants the same regulations as per today, or only small variations. Hyundai and M-sport agree on this. Toyota has been very open about their which to make a hybrid WRC-car, and that allowing a hybrid can be the make or brake for them. The question is if one can allow Toyota to race a hybrid against the regular WRC-cars from the other teams.
Earlier in rallying You had turbo/non turbo, different engine sizes, two wheel and four wheel drive, and rules that would try to equalize the speed of the cars, just like Le Mans today.
TMG seems very motivated to return to WRC, and even offering up the possibility of creating customer cars at good prices.
Hmmm... Seems that the sport of rallying is catching some wind in its sails;)

For a start they have to join. After that they can speak about coming regulations. VW and others will hold the agenda for more years to come. If Toyota ain´t joining they can´t influence.

[AndyRAC]

Toyota won't join if they can't promote their hybrid technology; there's no point in joining if they can't.

[Rallyper]

Toyota won't join if they can't promote their hybrid technology; there's no point in joining if they can't.

Moment 22 then... Guess they have to see both sides and that it takes time to implement your own ideas.

Are they testing a hybride car at Sardignia?

[Sardalense]

It's not official yet (only next Wednesday) but is almost certain that the Rally of Portugal will move north in 2015. Stages like Arganil, Fafe and Ponte de Lima will be back next year!

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114803

[Co-driven]

Why was Mikkelsen using some kind of earplug on Poland?

I've seen on the WRC Poland review when he finished one stage and took his helmet off and had those earplugs that usually (at least) here in Brazil are used by circuit drivers because of the noise.

[Lundefaret]

Toyota won't join if they can't promote their hybrid technology; there's no point in joining if they can't.

I am not so sure that Toyota will demand hybrid regulations.
TMG (earlier TTE) has a strong passion and tradition for rally, and I know that they really would like to do a comeback in the WRC.
If it was up to TMG allone I would guess that they would happily run a non-hybrid WRC-car. But TMG has to sell its project in to Toyota HQ.
Toyota HQ needs to see a clear marketing benefit, with a good ROI.
TMGs arguments could be that if they run a non-hybrid WRC-car, they could get a lot of PR for a reasonable amount of money, because the WRC cars of today are so "cheap" to develop and run.
If Toyota HQ agrees to this they allready have an almost finished WRC-car.
If on the other hand Toyota will demand a hybrid, the project would take on a whole different approach regarding the budget strategy. This would be much more expensive, but also "worth" more if Toyota can make the hybrid technology perform in the rough enviroment of rallying.
Hmmm...
Regardless of strategy, lets hope Toyota will return to the WRC. Toyota has a lot of fans around the world that would like to se them back in to the WRC.

I actually think we actually have started surfing on a positive wave in regards to rallying. The IRC has a huge potential with factory- and semi-factory-teams in both 4WD and 2WD.
Several factories like Peugeot, Citroën, Skoda, Renault and Opel run motorsport departments who make a profit on developing and selling rallycars (this is VERY important, so ROI is not only meassured in PR value).
Volkwsagen and Hyundai in to the WRC is of cource very positive (regardless of a shootout or not), (lets hope Citroën stays). The possibility of Toyota enetring is VERY good. All this will force the covarega and promoting to be better, wich then again will create interest from more manufacturers and sponsors.

[Rallyper]

I am not so sure that Toyota will demand hybrid regulations.
TMG (earlier TTE) has a strong passion and tradition for rally, and I know that they really would like to do a comeback in the WRC.
If it was up to TMG allone I would guess that they would happily run a non-hybrid WRC-car. But TMG has to sell its project in to Toyota HQ.
Toyota HQ needs to see a clear marketing benefit, with a good ROI.
TMGs arguments could be that if they run a non-hybrid WRC-car, they could get a lot of PR for a reasonable amount of money, because the WRC cars of today are so "cheap" to develop and run.
If Toyota HQ agrees to this they allready have an almost finished WRC-car.
If on the other hand Toyota will demand a hybrid, the project would take on a whole different approach regarding the budget strategy. This would be much more expensive, but also "worth" more if Toyota can make the hybrid technology perform in the rough enviroment of rallying.
Hmmm...
Regardless of strategy, lets hope Toyota will return to the WRC. Toyota has a lot of fans around the world that would like to se them back in to the WRC.

I actually think we actually have started surfing on a positive wave in regards to rallying. The IRC has a huge potential with factory- and semi-factory-teams in both 4WD and 2WD.
Several factories like Peugeot, Citroën, Skoda, Renault and Opel run motorsport departments who make a profit on developing and selling rallycars (this is VERY important, so ROI is not only meassured in PR value).
Volkwsagen and Hyundai in to the WRC is of cource very positive (regardless of a shootout or not), (lets hope Citroën stays). The possibility of Toyota enetring is VERY good. All this will force the covarega and promoting to be better, wich then again will create interest from more manufacturers and sponsors.

+1 Let´s get the media coverage (TV/Internet/live)on the same level and direction.

[AndyRAC]

If there are hybrids Toyota will be in the WRC as a full Manufacturer entry. If not, they will sell customer R5 Yaris cars....
They want to promote their hybrid technology - as they already do in the WEC with the TS040.

[NaBUru38]

If there are hybrids Toyota will be in the WRC as a full Manufacturer entry. If not, they will sell customer R5 Yaris cars....
They want to promote their hybrid technology - as they already do in the WEC with the TS040.

Agree, that's what Toyota might do.

[PLuto]

I dont want hybrid technology in rallysport, at least not now. I want same rules for everybody. And it is difficult to have correct regulations for petrol, diesel or hybrid cars. We can see how this new technologies destroyed WEC...

[manthey]

I dont want hybrid technology in rallysport, at least not now. I want same rules for everybody. And it is difficult to have correct regulations for petrol, diesel or hybrid cars. We can see how this new technologies destroyed WEC...

personally I don't see this negativity you mentioned...there are innovative concepts...I explain...in order to balance out the chances of the different solutions , the rules compensate the inherent advantage of a solution, for example diesel's efficiency.

so we see diesel race-car with 4wd, NA engine with 2 and 4wd, gasoline-turbo engine etc
there is more freedom and possibility for works team to develop an individual solution

F1 till last year was merely an aerodynamic exercise with engine/chassis solutions blocked (I preferred the NA sound instead of the current generation. Turbo Wrc makes a good sound on the other way )

[Lundefaret]

personally I don't see this negativity you mentioned...there are innovative concepts...I explain...in order to balance out the chances of the different solutions , the rules compensate the inherent advantage of a solution, for example diesel's efficiency.

so we see diesel race-car with 4wd, NA engine with 2 and 4wd, gasoline-turbo engine etc
there is more freedom and possibility for works team to develop an individual solution

F1 till last year was merely an aerodynamic exercise with engine/chassis solutions blocked (I preferred the NA sound instead of the current generation. Turbo Wrc makes a good sound on the other way )

If hybrid is allowed, it should be regulated to not give a perfomance advantage, because this could start a spending war.
The rallysport at the moment is in a fragile state when it comes to budgets and spending, and is also dependant on semi-proffesional teams and drivers running (Prokop, Kubica, Solberg etc), and drivers like this will struggle to finance their capaign if the cost goes up dramatically.
On the other hand, allowing more differentiated technology (as long as the performance is kept equal) will make the sport a better showcase for the parent brands technology, and therefore be more relevant marketing. Examples:
1) Volkswagen WRC: Diesel Turbo
2) Toyota WRC: Gasoline Hybrid
3) Ford WRC: 1.0 litre gasoline EcoBoost
4) Citroën WRC: Diesel hybrid

This would also allow for different sensory experiences because the cars would sound different to each other. So good for the fans. Andt it would allow for more pinpointed PR-effect for the brands.
But this would off cource be much more expensive than todays solution. Why:
1) You would have to develop more of the technology from the ground up.
2) The cars would become less atractive for potential byuers of used WRC-cars, beqause they would demand a higher running cost, and more spesialized manpower.

So a "perfect" compromise would be to allow the different brands to build their spesific technology, and to litmit the performance so they would match current WRC-cars, so that the manufacturers that would like to go the cheaper route by building a WRC car after todays regulations would not be left behind. Or something like that;)

[Mirek]

The problem with hybrids is that it's a technology non-suitable for use by privateers. It's too complicated and it must be extremely costly for private teams. In rallying they also have to work in very rough conditions so I'm a bit afraid of safety. Especially of spectators who push cars back on the road after crashes. That's something not present on circuits. Circuit cars have warning lights showing when marshals/mechanics must not touch them but such warning can not work with a crowd of partly drunk ordinary people.

[AndyRAC]

I dont want hybrid technology in rallysport, at least not now. I want same rules for everybody. And it is difficult to have correct regulations for petrol, diesel or hybrid cars. We can see how this new technologies destroyed WEC...


Destroyed WEC?? Are you being serious.... It's the strongest of the FiA World Championships... With more Manufacturers joining; as it's road relevant technology.
However, the Privateers don't have to use hybrids, as it's too costly. That could be something for the WRC to consider if they went down the hybrid route.

As Mirek has said, the safety issue with hybrids is a concern. They could get around this from banning spectators..... And only having viewing zones... ;) ( I'm only joking)

[Lundefaret]

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=no&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-magazin.de%2Frallyes%2Fwm%2Fnachrichten%2Fnews-detail%2Fd%2F2014%2F07%2F07%2Fhyundai-teamchef-plaediert-fuer-mehr-leistung%2Findex.html

Very good! More power, all we need now is less friction/grip from the tires, and limited suspension travel, and we have a show!

[N.O.T]

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=no&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-magazin.de%2Frallyes%2Fwm%2Fnachrichten%2Fnews-detail%2Fd%2F2014%2F07%2F07%2Fhyundai-teamchef-plaediert-fuer-mehr-leistung%2Findex.html

Very good! More power, all we need now is less friction/grip from the tires, and limited suspension travel, and we have a show!

there is already a sport for you to enjoy...

http://formulad.com/

no need to implement stupid ideas to the WRC.

[Lundefaret]

there is already a sport for you to enjoy...

http://formulad.com/

no need to implement stupid ideas to the WRC.

Hehe;) "Stupid is what stupid does"

I was thinking more in the lines of Group B, but I guess You think that Group B rallying is the lowpoint of the rallysport;)

There are three very important factors that suggests that lowering grip/friction is a good way to go:

1) Safety (lower cornering speeds)
2) Longevity (the tires and cars of today creates so much grip that they are very tough on the roads. This destruction of the roads, both in the WRC and in local rallies (we are of cource talking about gravel) translates in to it being more and more difficult to find roads to arrange rallies on, and more and more expensive to hire/rebuild the roads.)
3) Show (for obvious reasons)

[Rallyper]

N.O.T. not always knows what we´re talking about Lundefaret. You have a point when it comes to WRC to be more spectacular. Better so than having Superrally and shoot-outs.

[N.O.T]

Hehe;) "Stupid is what stupid does"

I was thinking more in the lines of Group B, but I guess You think that Group B rallying is the lowpoint of the rallysport;)

There are three very important factors that suggests that lowering grip/friction is a good way to go:

1) Safety (lower cornering speeds)
2) Longevity (the tires and cars of today creates so much grip that they are very tough on the roads. This destruction of the roads, both in the WRC and in local rallies (we are of cource talking about gravel) translates in to it being more and more difficult to find roads to arrange rallies on, and more and more expensive to hire/rebuild the roads.)
3) Show (for obvious reasons)

So you want more power but lower cornering speeds.... that makes sense... why you want more power then ?

Longenity of the roads is just a joke to use as an excuse... and again how exactly more power is going to add to that ?

And as for show you can visit local village road shows if you consider drifts "show".

[COD]

So you want more power but lower cornering speeds.... that makes sense... why you want more power then ?

Longenity of the roads is just a joke to use as an excuse... and again how exactly more power is going to add to that ?

And as for show you can visit local village road shows if you consider drifts "show".

More power + less grip from suspension, tyres and diffs would make WRC more spectacular and less like racing lines on forests as it is now. What would be wrong with more show for spectators? The biggest problem of WRC today is not enough spectators (TV mostly). The drifts show probably are more popular than WRC now...

[Mirek]

So you want more power but lower cornering speeds.... that makes sense... why you want more power then ?

Strictly technically speaking there is no contradiction in that statement. Cornering speed has nothing to do with power.

[N.O.T]

Strictly technically speaking there is no contradiction in that statement. Cornering speed has nothing to do with power.

technically speaking yes there is not a contradiction since cornering speed is dependent on traction, but in real life terms when you have 2 corners close to each other the car must have enough power to reach the limit of traction speed.

[Rallyper]

technically speaking yes there is not a contradiction since cornering speed is dependent on traction, but in real life terms when you have 2 corners close to each other the car must have enough power to reach the limit of traction speed.

Average Joe wouldn´t notice anyway. He just want rallycars to be more spectacular than today obviously.

[makinen_fan]

This is the reason today's cars look too perfect and can go so fast effortlessly. Too much traction and not enough power.

[rallyfiend]

This is the reason today's cars look too perfect and can go so fast effortlessly. Too much traction and not enough power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-eF_fc4n7M

this clip would beg to differ....

[Mirek]

technically speaking yes there is not a contradiction since cornering speed is dependent on traction, but in real life terms when you have 2 corners close to each other the car must have enough power to reach the limit of traction speed.

Sorry, but You didn't get what does cornering speed mean. Cornering speed doesn't depend on power (unless the car needs power slide to turn but let's say it behaves perfectly neutral) and it doesn't depend on traction either. The thing Lundefaret speaks about is lateral acceleration which the car can take in the corner. That depends on many factors, mainly weight of the car, center of gravity position, lateral tyre grip level (depending also on tyre sidewall stiffness), suspension setup (mainly rollbars) etc.

It's very easily possible to have much more powerful car which is much slower in corners, e.g. Audi Qattro may have double power compared to Fiesta WRC but in the corner it is way slower (must slow down much more before the apex). The cornering speed is what changed dramatically through the years.

[N.O.T]

Sorry, but You didn't get what does cornering speed mean. Cornering speed doesn't depend on power (unless the car needs power slide to turn but let's say it behaves perfectly neutral) and it doesn't depend on traction either. The thing Lundefaret speaks about is lateral acceleration which the car can take in the corner. That depends on many factors, mainly radius of the corner, weight of the car, center of gravity position, lateral tyre grip level (depending also on tyre sidewall stiffness), suspension setup (mainly rollbars) etc.

It's very easily possible to have much more powerful car which is much slower in corners, e.g. Audi Qattro may have double power compared to Fiesta WRC but in the corner it is way slower (must slow down much more before the apex). The cornering speed is what changed dramatically through the years.

cornering speed depends on how much all of the above "blah blah blah look at me how shiny i am" you posted can the tyre take before is starts sliding...

[makinen_fan]

Sorry, but You didn't get what does cornering speed mean. Cornering speed doesn't depend on power (unless the car needs power slide to turn but let's say it behaves perfectly neutral) and it doesn't depend on traction either. The thing Lundefaret speaks about is lateral acceleration which the car can take in the corner. That depends on many factors, mainly radius of the corner, weight of the car, center of gravity position, lateral tyre grip level (depending also on tyre sidewall stiffness), suspension setup (mainly rollbars) etc.

It's very easily possible to have much more powerful car which is much slower in corners, e.g. Audi Qattro may have double power compared to Fiesta WRC but in the corner it is way slower (must slow down much more before the apex). The cornering speed is what changed dramatically through the years.

This is correct, but only for the apex speed that the car can carry in a corner. For the part of a turn after the apex, when the driver applies throttle to accelerate away, you can have two situations. Either traction limited or power limited. For sure for certain corners more power will result to higher corner exit speed (i.e. faster overall corner speed), but in other corners it will have no influence.

[Mirek]

cornering speed depends on how much all of the above "blah blah blah look at me how shiny i am" you posted can the tyre take before is starts sliding...

Actually not. Again same example. Put Michelin Pilot Sport WRC SS2 on Audi Quattro and try to reach same speed in the corner as with Fiesta WRC. You will end on a speed 20 km/h lower or something like that. Or put those same tyres on a stock VW Multivan and try again :)

Lateral acceleration which the tyre can ideally take is of course same in all cases but the thing is that the real conditions are never same as those ideal laboratory ones and it's the car what makes them different. Therefore even if You have the very same corner and the very same tyres never two different cars can reach absolutely same speed (even if they have same weight).


This is correct, but only for the apex speed that the car can carry in a corner. For the part of a turn after the apex, when the driver applies throttle to accelerate away, you can have two situations. Either traction limited or power limited. For sure for certain corners more power will result to higher corner exit speed (i.e. faster overall corner speed), but in other corners it will have no influence.

Cornering speed is not a corner exit speed. Imagine that as a speed on a fixed diameter circle.

[N.O.T]

actually yes... you are just using more words for it... and if you are a physicist i can relate to you trying to explain things using a more accurate description... if you are not you are just a smartass trying to explain things in acomplicated way yourself cannot even grasp completely.

[makinen_fan]

Cornering speed is not a corner exit speed. Imagine that as a speed on a fixed diameter circle.

I know, but this it the theoretical ideal situation that never happens in reality.
But then you can have a situation like this that an underpowered car cannot utilise all of its traction, (because you need power to keep a constant speed around a circle, consider the velocity vector of car turning) if the constant radius circle is large enough... so power does matter

[stefanvv]

You're talking about tarmac stages on Cyprus kind of show, aren't You? Well, I prefer fast tarmac cars anyway, but that's only me.

[Mirek]

I know, but this it the theoretical ideal situation that never happens in reality.

Actually it is very valuable to cut every complex phenomena into less complicated fundamental processes. If You don't do that You end with a huge equation with million of unknowns for every measurable output.


But then you can have a situation like this that an underpowered car cannot utilise all of its traction, (because you need power to keep a constant speed around a circle, consider the velocity vector of car turning) if the constant radius circle is large enough... so power does matter

You need very little power to keep constant speed (in rallying limits), basically only to equalize drag, rolling resistance and power looses in transmission. Every vehicle can reach it's limiting lateral acceleration (or cornering speed on given radius). It doesn't need to be at 200 km/h. It can be at 30 km/h if it's a tight hairpin. Even a tractor can turn so hard that it can't keep a line of constant radius. In the end it really matters if You can do the circle at 28 km/h or at 32 km/h because that is from what You start the power-related process.

[Eli]

http://www.rally.it/rally-del-portogallo-verso-il-nord/ if the date move further ahead in the calendar maybe Argentina will be earlier and then we will get the rain there.:)

[TheFlyingTuga]

Now it's official, Rally Portugal 2015 willbe held in the north of the country with Matosinhos city being the HQ for the rally.

[Mirek]

I hope for an epic event!

[Andre Oliveira]

Oh my god :) They wake up one sleeping giant. Same old stages, same old passion, but with better organazition. It will be epic :) Can't wait for June 2015.

[Andre Oliveira]

If "Lousada" means SSS of Costilha Eurocircuit (former ERX track) then, for sure, will be epic :) Nothing like stadiums or streets kids SSS.

[Lundefaret]

This is actually VERY GOOD!
One thing the WRC-promotors has done to get in more money in the short term, but cutting interest in the long run, is in my opinion to stage WRC-rounds in places where there are no spectators, and next to none interest. Jordan etc.
Northern Portugal is absolutely crazy, in a very very good way, and will be a huge asset.
Rallying is very big in Eastern Europe, so the WRC-calendar should reflect this. The same with the Nordic countries. Classics such as Corsica and Monte Carlo are very important, and also making new classics in places that people actually care. This is what builds interest.
To have a succesfull WRC-round in a new market/country, requiers that You build up the interest from the ground up. By both helping the national organizers of the national series, but also letting the countrie get TV-rights,a nd making the TV-broadcasts as spectacular as possible. When one feels that there is enough interest, well then one can stage a WRC-event.
This should be put to the test in Norther America/USA, where the rallying interest is steadily growing, but where one lacks the experience/means to really make it big.
Factory teams should visit a round with a WRC driver/car (ex Volkswagen, who is in the market), to create further interest.
In norhern Portugal the interest for rallying and the WRC-event has epic proportions, and this is places we need to be. Very good!

[manthey]

i20 for 2015
hyundai will unveil new wrc on next October @ Paris motor Show
interview to Nandan
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114892

[janvanvurpa]

This is actually VERY GOOD!
One thing the WRC-promotors has done to get in more money in the short term, but cutting interest in the long run, is in my opinion to stage WRC-rounds in places where there are no spectators, and next to none interest. Jordan etc.
Northern Portugal is absolutely crazy, in a very very good way, and will be a huge asset.
Rallying is very big in Eastern Europe, so the WRC-calendar should reflect this. The same with the Nordic countries. Classics such as Corsica and Monte Carlo are very important, and also making new classics in places that people actually care. This is what builds interest.
To have a succesfull WRC-round in a new market/country, requiers that You build up the interest from the ground up. By both helping the national organizers of the national series, but also letting the countrie get TV-rights,a nd making the TV-broadcasts as spectacular as possible. When one feels that there is enough interest, well then one can stage a WRC-event.
This should be put to the test in Norther America/USA, where the rallying interest is steadily growing, but where one lacks the experience/means to really make it big.
Factory teams should visit a round with a WRC driver/car (ex Volkswagen, who is in the market), to create further interest.
In norhern Portugal the interest for rallying and the WRC-event has epic proportions, and this is places we need to be. Very good!


Lundis pojken, intresset i USA has always been "growing" It's been "growing" since I started back in Sten-åldern i '84.. Back then our population in country was 233 million and we had total maybe 320 individuals enter an event in the whole country.. Now we have 312 million , and I heard we have 322 individuals who enter a rally..Steady growth.
One of our better organisers like to analyze things and he studied the constant growing interest i Amerika and found 27% of drivers do ONE event and are never seen again and 43% do 3 events total...
Yep interest is growing...

Thatäs what everybody keeps saying...I read it on a forum so it must be true.

What America needs above all is a visit from some good F+cup guys, and some Swedish GrpH and maybe a couple of you Norskies if you promise to bring 240 Volvbo or maybe some Escorts...

There was seriously some excitment when we had visit from Ozzie boy Brendon Reeves visited last year and was doing SS times right behind ''America's Rally Super Star'' Ben Clock....by US standards really wonderful aggressive driving which ''nobody could believe''...He was in a nice spec FWD Fiesta 1600 sug motor.

We need some better yardstick of what the ORDINARY is, not what one or 2 WRC guys can do when they have million dollar per event budget...

We need-----as per-centage av befolkningen---- 1/10 the participation you have i Norden..

When our interest has grown to that level, we can re-visit if we need what one guy here calls "the Dubya Arse-y"

[Eli]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2014/07/12/tmg-testete-yaris-wrc-auf-sardinien/index.html#.U8ENz5SSyUY a bit of old news but let's hope TMG will follow through.

[OldF]

Rally 2 for new-look 2015 Monte Carlo

http://www.irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00007166&10

http://planetemarcus.com/saison-wrc/wrc-rallye-monte-carlo-2015/

[tommeke_B]

Quite poor itinerary if you ask me... Only one stage on sunday, what's the point of having a leg with one stage? Thanks to Rally2, someone can retire every day and just finish one stage to finish the rally and be in the results (and who knows points, with the often weak entry lists in WRC2 and WRC3, especially in Monte), while another one who drives a perfect rally and breaks off a wheel on on the final stage won't be in the final result. FIA logic...

[rallyfiend]

Quite poor itinerary if you ask me... Only one stage on sunday, what's the point of having a leg with one stage? Thanks to Rally2, someone can retire every day and just finish one stage to finish the rally and be in the results (and who knows points, with the often weak entry lists in WRC2 and WRC3, especially in Monte), while another one who drives a perfect rally and breaks off a wheel on on the final stage won't be in the final result. FIA logic...

There are two stages on Sunday - they just haven't said what the Power Stage is waiting for the format decisions to be taken.

[tommeke_B]

There are two stages on Sunday - they just haven't said what the Power Stage is waiting for the format decisions to be taken.

Both articles (irally and planetemarcus) say that sunday consists of one stage. What's undecided is which stage will be powerstage, according to irally. Planetemarcus says that Turini will be a) shootout stage, or b) power stage, depending on how the regulations will be. At least that's what I'm reading, in both languages... :)

[rallyfiend]

This is the text of the actual release:

The ultimate day of race, Sunday 25th January , will take, quite early in the morning, the competitors in
Alpes Maritimes Hinterland. On the menu : La Bollène Vésubie – Sospel (31,66 km) as known as Col de
Turini's extended version and the Power Stage - which is still left to chose accordingly to the new 2015
rules - to conclude this 83rd Rallye Automobile Monte-Carlo. The traditional Price Giving Ceremony
will start at 3 p.m. on place of the Palais Princier de Monaco.

I understand this to mean that La Bollene is locked in, the Power STage is still to be selected and included.

[AndyRAC]

Must admit, I think it's a disappointing route. Dare I say it - but just another WRC event. The Monte should be different; a proper challenge!! I prefer the Tues/Weds - Friday night format, as seen in the IRC versions.

The AMC normally stick 2 fingers up to the FiA....

[Mintexmemory]

Both articles (irally and planetemarcus) say that sunday consists of one stage. What's undecided is which stage will be powerstage, according to irally. Planetemarcus says that Turini will be a) shootout stage, or b) power stage, depending on how the regulations will be. At least that's what I'm reading, in both languages... :)

iRally have just poorly translated. The press release is clear (posted on the ACM website) in French that Turini will be the bonus stage whatever format (shoot out or PS) that the FIA adopt for 2015 - So we wait to see if ACM stick to that as changes have occurred in previous editions after the initial announcement.

[amilk]

Worst MCR route since many years

[tommeke_B]

Worst MCR route since many years

Since 2007 I would say, I think back then it was even worse... ;)

[Mintexmemory]

Since 2007 I would say, I think back then it was even worse... ;)


People were saying that about last year's route and I thoroughly enjoyed it. The Lardier et Valenca to Faye stage is just a slightly altered repeat of Vitrolles to Faye from last year, and a bloody great stage it is too. -Go to the heights above Savournon for a really great atmosphere. I'll reserve judgement until the plans are a bit more explicit.

[tommeke_B]

I was at Monte too this year. For spectating it was quite good. Seen 9 stages (normally 10 if Turini wasn't cancelled in the 2nd run) and the atmosphere was nice. Being able to lock in between SS1 and 3 on the first leg was a big plus this year, also the 50km stage had the advantage that, if you were near the start, you could combine it with the stage run just after it. The most spectacular things (for me) were fast turns on tarmac. The speed on snow/ice/slush wasn't big enough, especially when they were on the wrong tires, also on Turini it was visible (in first loop already) that it was just fighting to survive for. We were on the downhill after the public area in first run, and I must say it was a bit disappointing to me.

I don't think about going back next year, maybe better to discover some new events... :)

[Mintexmemory]

Agree that some new event is better than a return to Monte, I'm considering NORF but I'd like to go back to Sardinia if it runs again.

[tommeke_B]

I hope Sardinia will be back on the calendar again, it's my favourite event from what I've done so far (Monte-Gap, Sweden, Portugal-Algarve, Sardinia, Finland, Germany and France-Alsace). And for anyone who can get a cheap flight (mostly with Ryanair) it's extremely cheap. It's a nice holiday-destination too, especially with the Rally HQ in Alghero now. :) Everyone I know who has been there is planning to go again some day.

[RAS007]

Rally 2 for new-look 2015 Monte Carlo

http://www.irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00007166&10

http://planetemarcus.com/saison-wrc/wrc-rallye-monte-carlo-2015/

Desperately disappointing news regarding RMC implementing Rally2. I was really hoping other events would follow their lead and drop it. I am really close to giving up on the WRC altogether; the direction the sport is heading in is sad and bizarre in equal measure.

[Luis Pacheco]

The Portuguese Ministry of Economy announced today that the Tourism of Portugal will not financially support the 2015 edition of the Rally of Portugal. A million euros was the amount in question.

http://autosport.pt/gen.pl?p=stories&op=view&fokey=as.stories/124733&sid=as.sections/13

[Doon]

I hope Sardinia will be back on the calendar again, it's my favourite event from what I've done so far (Monte-Gap, Sweden, Portugal-Algarve, Sardinia, Finland, Germany and France-Alsace). And for anyone who can get a cheap flight (mostly with Ryanair) it's extremely cheap. It's a nice holiday-destination too, especially with the Rally HQ in Alghero now. :) Everyone I know who has been there is planning to go again some day.

I really hope it's in for 2015, as i'm planning our 2 week holiday around the event! Any news on the calender? It's pretty pathetic how late the WRC calender is announced.

[rallyfiend]

I really hope it's in for 2015, as i'm planning our 2 week holiday around the event! Any news on the calender? It's pretty pathetic how late the WRC calender is announced.

As opposed to what calendar? F1 is usually not confirmed until November! The ERC is rarely correct until January, and the WTCC calendar is usually changed at least twice during the year!!

[Franky]

As opposed to what calendar? F1 is usually not confirmed until November!

A bit awful comparison with F1 which starts its season way later than WRC.

Usually there are some kinds of snippets of a possible calendar, which is pretty accurate during the second half of the summer. Something what Mr. Holmes referred to in his article in Motorsport Monday. Too much secrecy.

[DonJippo]

WRC promoter is launching WRC+ service more on plus.wrc.com

[Gregor-y]

Will the times/splits be accurate there?

[Andre Oliveira]

Very expensive. I will try it. Method payament, no paypal :( And it have iPhone app?

[Frostmourne]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115101

Resources say that they might go from segment B cars up to segment D cars... Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't segment D cars mid-size cars? If that is correct, I dont think I'll like 2017 cars!!

[Toyoda]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115101

Resources say that they might go from segment B cars up to segment D cars... Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't segment D cars mid-size cars? If that is correct, I dont think I'll like 2017 cars!!

Now we are talking, best news for a while IMO,

[makinen_fan]

Really strange news that Tommi Makinen racing has built a GT86 WRC :eek: :eek:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115223

[Andre Oliveira]

Toyota will join WRC with Yaris or if rules change with segment D car ;)

[GigiGalliNo1]

4.99 pounds is expensive?! Are you crazy!?!??! Or people in Europe make less money then the rest of the world.... It's 60 pounds a year which is $110 Australian dollars a year... that's pretty good. I can fill my car up with fuel twice, so two full tanks for $125! That's $60 a week....

[DonJippo]

Really strange news that Tommi Makinen racing has built a GT86 WRC :eek: :eek:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115223

Here is a pic of this car

[Jack4688`]

I'd like to know how the drivetrain is set up on that car. At the launch of the GT-86 they said the engine was too low and too far back to accommodate four wheel drive...

[rallyfiend]

I believe that because it was based on the Subaru BRZ platform, that there's a lot of Impreza underneath....

[Rally Hokkaido]

I believe that because it was based on the Subaru BRZ platform, that there's a lot of Impreza underneath....

yes, approximately 100% give or take a badge or two ;-)

[Zeakiwi]

Is the engine orientation of the production road car allowed to be changed for the R5 version?
An R5 Toyota 86 4wd with the transverse 1600 turbo motor (from the Yaris wrc - prototype)and sadev drivetrain . The rear wheel drive Toyota 86 rally cars seem to have a lot of rear tyre wear.


http://gt86.com.au/subaru-brz-drivetrain-and-powertrain/

http://www.awdwiki.com/en/subaru/ (note the front engine overhang on the XV)

[Andre Oliveira]

4.99 pounds is expensive?! Are you crazy!?!??! Or people in Europe make less money then the rest of the world.... It's 60 pounds a year which is $110 Australian dollars a year... that's pretty good. I can fill my car up with fuel twice, so two full tanks for $125! That's $60 a week....

I'm Portuguese man ;)

[N.O.T]

4.99 pounds is expensive?! Are you crazy!?!??! Or people in Europe make less money then the rest of the world.... It's 60 pounds a year which is $110 Australian dollars a year... that's pretty good. I can fill my car up with fuel twice, so two full tanks for $125! That's $60 a week....

It is not expensive, but from what i have seen so far the things they offer can be found elsewhere. The only thing that would make me subscribe even at double that cost would be to have proper onboard camera angles at proper quality...

It is never about the price... it is about what you get for the price. Currently i would not even pay 5 euros per year for what is on offer.

[Frostmourne]

On the local news today, Jordan might host a round in 2016 calender :D. FIA want to change the area of the event from Dead Sea to south of Jordan in Aqaba, and the event might be run in the desert of Wadi Rum..



Yeah I know alot of people here considered Jordan Rally as a failure mainly due to lack of spectators, but at least Jordan Rally always had surprises and alot of suspension, specially in 2011 win Ogier win against Latvala by 0.2 seconds in the power stage.


ME PERSONALY, looking forward to this :D


Edit: Links for anyone who is interested to read about it, it is in Arabic.


http://www.ammonnews.net/article.aspx?articleno=201231

http://www.alghad.com/articles/817206-احتمالية-استضافة-الأردن-لجولة-عالمية-في-العام-2016

First link has more details.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Link for Jordan?

[Mirek]

Is the engine orientation of the production road car allowed to be changed for the R5 version?
An R5 Toyota 86 4wd with the transverse 1600 turbo motor (from the Yaris wrc - prototype)and sadev drivetrain . The rear wheel drive Toyota 86 rally cars seem to have a lot of rear tyre wear.


http://gt86.com.au/subaru-brz-drivetrain-and-powertrain/

http://www.awdwiki.com/en/subaru/ (note the front engine overhang on the XV)

I don't know about orientations but sure no prototype engine allowed for R5. R5 must use production engine (although it might be quite heavily tuned).

[GigiGalliNo1]

شكرا

[Zeakiwi]

Toyota have a 1600cc production engine - 1ZR- FAE version. I see the R5 rules state that engine mountings can be homologated.
Xtrac have a R5 transmission. http://www.xtrac.com/sectors/motorsport/rally-offroad/product/98
Add the TRD large wing and the Toyota 86, BRZ, scion etc should start to look similar to the Celica 205.
Which is preferable the lower centre of gravity of the boxer engine in an Impreza/ 86 but over hanging the front wheel line or an inline transverse engine with a higher positioned mass but over and slightly behind the front wheels?

[Mirek]

In my opinion it is better to have the engine behind the front axle and higher than lower but in front of the axle.

Anyway the production engine doesn't need to be 1.6. The stroke can be modified. For example Fiesta R5 uses 2.0 block and Fabia R5 uses 1.8 block.

[amilk]

Hi, Any news somewhere about 2015 calendar? Changes to this year?