[WRC] News & rumours (part III)

[N.O.T]

Read rumors in an italian magazine about possible changes to rally2. Drivers who will use it could not be anymore first on the road...
There are no sources so we should take it as it is.
I hope it will not happen actually but if it is true I'm going to the supermarket to buy a big bag of popcorn and enjoy the reactions, or better, THE reaction. :)

When people realise that Ogier wins because he is the best driver and not because there are some cars sweeping the road on day 2 it will be a good day for the sport... During Loebs domination the rally commission changed the rules all the time and the result remained the same. But seems they have not learned anything.

[Rally Power]

For those of You with conspiratory tendencies: If Matthias Müller replaces Winterkorn, then You can start weaving cob webs.

I think it's the other way around: the pieces come all together if Diess becomes CEO...

[stefanvv]

Read rumors in an italian magazine about possible changes to rally2. Drivers who will use it could not be anymore first on the road...
There are no sources so we should take it as it is.
I hope it will not happen actually but if it is true I'm going to the supermarket to buy a big bag of popcorn and enjoy the reactions, or better, THE reaction. :)

Actually this is a step back in Ogier's concurrency. Sweeping the road is not good to anyone and this might be additional motivation for drivers to try to finish without rally2. It'll be easier for Ogier if more drivers do it.

[RAS007]

Actually this is a step back in Ogier's concurrency. Sweeping the road is not good to anyone and this might be additional motivation for drivers to try to finish without rally2. It'll be easier for Ogier if more drivers do it.

Just get rid of Rally2. It has always been a stupid idea.

[stefanvv]

Just get rid of Rally2. It has always been a stupid idea.

Completely agree. '17 there will be enough teams to fill top 10 without it anyway.

[Gregor-y]

Piech

I'm sure he's been in charge the whole time, just not where we can see it.

[itix]

Just get rid of Rally2. It has always been a stupid idea.
Am I the only one who likes rally 2?
I've always thought it was great because people gained experience on the stages despite crashes or car failures.

[vino_93]

You can keep rally2, but not this way. No sense to be classified whereas you didn't compete the whole rally.

But in modern rallying, where experience is the most difficult thing to get, I'm quite sure official drivers would restart, even without classification.

[Karukera]

Staying on the current topic; today in 1066 Harold defeated Hadrada & Tostig at Stamford Bridge, York......

Best news for Britain in ages...

[AL14]

Am I the only one who likes rally 2?
I've always thought it was great because people gained experience on the stages despite crashes or car failures.

You're not alone. I don't think it is great but it is good to keep more drivers in the road till the end.

Said that I think that if drivers under rally2 should not be classified or take power stage points then it is better if we don't use it. No reason to have cars in the road with no goals or something to take.

[Simmi]

I like Rally 2 if I'm spectating at that event. Other no it feels messy.

[macebig]

It might be a little bit far fetched but in reality that VW scandal may cost WRC two teams.Explaining that.If VW Group is forced to scale back motorsport activities except VW Rally Team also quitting will be the Bentley GT team,run by none other than Malcolm Wilson's M-Sport.Without the cash by VW and if Ford doesnt return in an official capacity Wilson may need to find new partners for M-Sport making the Fiesta WRC future uncertain.

[Zeakiwi]

It might be a little bit far fetched but in reality that VW scandal may cost WRC two teams.Explaining that.If VW Group is forced to scale back motorsport activities except VW Rally Team also quitting will be the Bentley GT team,run by none other than Malcolm Wilson's M-Sport.Without the cash by VW and if Ford doesnt return in an official capacity Wilson may need to find new partners for M-Sport making the Fiesta WRC future uncertain.

M-Sport might find it less difficult to find sponsors without VW competing (The Fiesta might get to at least 3ed on the podium from time time.) Are the R1,2 R5, s2000, rrc etc bringing in any money?(Have M-Sport built any cars for the Chinese Rally Championships?)

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

(Have M-Sport built any cars for the Chinese Rally Championships?)
No, I think.
But they have 2L version of R5+.

[Andre Oliveira]

1 R5 are running there

[Simmi]

I figure M-Sport were running in their current situation before the Bentley contract came along. So I don't think it's make or break for them.

Plus the GT3 programme is now primarily customer racing - meaning that there are always going to be teams that have bought cars who will need support.

[Lundefaret]

So, Muller it is:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/24/volkswagen-names-matthias-muller-ceo/

[itix]

So, Muller it is:

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/24/volkswagen-names-matthias-muller-ceo/
I feel like an ass saying this but hope he is more restrictive in budget towards his wrc team.

[Lundefaret]

So, VWs position in the WRC was not as certain as i believed in the outset.

Jost Capito is a VERY clever man, and nothing he does comes by chance or accident.
He is off cource informed of what happens in VW around this "SmokeGate."
Mathias Müller seems certain to be the New man in the driving seat, as some very prominent heads start rolling in the VAG concern.

Capito, a master of strategy and details, suddenly has the urge to tell the world (or more rightly, tell the New CEO) that VW is always in for the long haul, that they want Citroën like dominance, he paints a picture of a dinner with the cup and all the badges of Citroëns victories.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120946

This can have no other explanation than Capito being VERY concerned about the future of the WRC program.
Why did it take me two days to realize the importance of Capitos statements to Autosport?
Well, most often big companies patch over these things by firing a few leaders, making a good excuse, and coming up with a swift escape plan. Well, seems that they are taking this a bit more seriously. They are firing, amongst others, Ulrich Hackenburg, who has been an extremely successful head of development in Audi. This means that they are taking this all the way.

On a side note: The most probable new CEO, Müller, was the head of strategy in VW to I thinnk 2008, wich has to be the period when this Nox-scam was planned.

Well, lets keep our fingers crossed for VW in the WRC!

[Lundefaret]

I feel like an ass saying this but hope he is more restrictive in budget towards his wrc team.

The only dominant force in the WRC is Ogier. Its not about budget, or car.
He would be a World Champion in the Ford, the Hyundai or the Citroën. That's how good he is. That's how big a difference a driver makes.
Just look at the differences in speed whiting VW, and that's between the three drivers in the WRC that VW thinks are the best.

[Simmi]

So, VWs position in the WRC was not as certain as i believed in the outset.

Jost Capito is a VERY clever man, and nothing he does comes by chance or accident.
He is off cource informed of what happens in VW around this "SmokeGate."
Mathias Müller seems certain to be the New man in the driving seat, as some very prominent heads start rolling in the VAG concern.

Capito, a master of strategy and details, suddenly has the urge to tell the world (or more rightly, tell the New CEO) that VW is always in for the long haul, that they want Citroën like dominance, he paints a picture of a dinner with the cup and all the badges of Citroëns victories.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120946

This can have no other explanation than Capito being VERY concerned about the future of the WRC program.
Why did it take me two days to realize the importance of Capitos statements to Autosport?
Well, most often big companies patch over these things by firing a few leaders, making a good excuse, and coming up with a swift escape plan. Well, seems that they are taking this a bit more seriously. They are firing, amongst others, Ulrich Hackenburg, who has been an extremely successful head of development in Audi. This means that they are taking this all the way.

On a side note: The most probable new CEO, Müller, was the head of strategy in VW to I thinnk 2008, wich has to be the period when this Nox-scam was planned.

Well, lets keep our fingers crossed for VW in the WRC!

Let's just get some context. For what you're saying about Capito to apply - he would have needed to be aware of the dieselgate issue and also know that it was about to be revealed to the world.

Don't assume that just because a story is published on a given date that that's when the quotes were gathered. In actual fact that piece appeared in Motorsport News a full week before it was published on Autosport (so September 16th) - and the interview likely took place at Rally Australia. Way before all this blew up. They often spread out their stories across the week on Autosport.com. Publishing this one a week late felt particularly lazy, especially given what had happened since.

[Lundefaret]

Let's just get some context. For what you're saying about Capito to apply - he would have needed to be aware of the dieselgate issue and also know that it was about to be revealed to the world.

Don't assume that just because a story is published on a given date that that's when the quotes were gathered. In actual fact that piece appeared in Motorsport News a full week before it was published on Autosport (so September 16th) - and the interview likely took place at Rally Australia. Way before all this blew up. They often spread out their stories across the week on Autosport.com. Publishing this one a week late felt particularly lazy, especially given what had happened since.

I did not know that that statement had come earlier, so I have to cool down my cob web weaving a little bit.
Tough I am sure that these types of statements always have at least to meanings, and that Capito not only sends this message to the fans/audience, but also to other important parties.
Remember, one of Capitos best cards in the argument around the future of the WRC, was that he threatened to pull out/or rather that VW would probably pull out if they didn't get their way. By stating that VW is always in for the long run etc, it seems to me that he is sending a different message to a different audience "SmokeGate" or not.

[Mirek]

"SmokeGate" or not.

Little off topic... I know You haven't written that in serious manner but actually if there was even a looooot of smoke everything would be ok :) The diesel combustion runs either with a lot of smoke or with a lot of NOx. If I remember well there is no other way. VW problem is a lot of NOx because even SCR is not some wonder-cure to erase the NOx totally. If they run the engines with less NOX they would have more smoke (that is not really a big problem with DPF) but also higher fuel consumption which would probably cost them the title of the most fuel-efficient brand on the US market...

[macebig]

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20150925/BLOG15/150929856/new-vw-ceos-top-priorities
People are calling Mueller to kill every VAG motorsport activity....

[Rally Power]

Let's just get some context. For what you're saying about Capito to apply - he would have needed to be aware of the dieselgate issue and also know that it was about to be revealed to the world.

Don't know if Capito's was already aware but top VW executives were. EPA friday's revelation turned clear why Dr. Piech slam the door in April and on monday's pc Winterkorn admitted VW during talks with EPA. For sure they haven't decide to allocate $7.2b* to potencial losses over the weekend! Probably Muller's nomination was also already decided and today's announced group governance reform too (actually this new structure, empowering the different group brands, can benefit motorsport involvement from each one of them).

From today's pc no cutting costs were mentioned, and it was a relief to see Muller confirmed as CEO (Diess has a heavy cost cutting reputation). My (wishful) bet is on VW staying in WRC, Porsche in WEC and the already expected Audi exit from WEC (keeping DTM and reinforcing FE support to ABT Team, instead of the rumored F1 joining up).

*it's more or less VW's 1/2 year profit, and just last August they've cashed out $3.9b from Suzuki's back share trade.

[Rally Power]

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20150925/BLOG15/150929856/new-vw-ceos-top-priorities
People are calling Mueller to kill every VAG motorsport activity....

...no need to suffer over the news, mate. VW is heavily capitalized, the stock dispersion is limited and the Porsche/Piech families still have the group control.

[macebig]

Suffer?I hope they get the hell out of WRC and stick their arrogance up their candy asses...My only worry is that in 2017 we may only have 2 teams

[Mirek]

Suffer?I hope they get the hell out of WRC and stick their arrogance up their candy asses...My only worry is that in 2017 we may only have 2 teams

Brilliant idea...

[Rally Power]

For those of You with conspiratory tendencies(...)

How about this one: Is there any link between ICCT (the north american NGO that made the emissions tests on VW's cars) and Apple or Google?

[Lundefaret]

How about this one: Is there any link between ICCT (the north american NGO that made the emissions tests on VW's cars) and Apple or Google?

To answer that You must understand how business in the US works, and how connected the big companies are to the state, and vice versa.

Both Google and Apple (and a lot of other companies) have an open door towards the US intelligence community. And this also plays the other way around. Often the US intelligence community is helping large US companies in different situations.

The great Swedish inventor Håkan Lans (the man behind color graphics in computers, the air plane navigation system and other things), discovered this first hand when a US computer company breached one of his patents. Lans was contacted and threatened by representatives from the US intelligence community, and there was brake ins, bugging etc etc. Even the journalists that made the documentary about him experienced the same, including brake ins. This is not exclusive to the US of A, but there the connections are very tight.

What will happen in other countries now, that have a competing car industry, is that their leaders first will have confedential meetings with their industry leaders to see if they also cheat on emissions. If they do they will rattle a little with their swords, and then let it blow over. If the local car industry dont cheat, they will most probably "attack" VW, as long as VW dont have factories or large subcontractors in their country.

VW has already "lawyered up" with the same company that defended BP in the scandal in the Mexican Gulf, so they are expecting a storm of some proportions!

In the mean time Piech has "his" man Müller replacing Winterkorn in the CEO seat, and being the majority share holder, he can now buy up for incredible prices (VW real value is much higher than during this scandal), so he can gain even more control, both by bargain prices shares and having his person(s) leading VW.

Connections, they are everywhere, just follow the money :)

[AL14]

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20150925/BLOG15/150929856/new-vw-ceos-top-priorities
People are calling Mueller to kill every VAG motorsport activity....

It's just some columnist that didn't know what to write in a boring thursday evening but he had to write something to get the salary at the end of the month.

[stefanvv]

Suffer?I hope they get the hell out of WRC and stick their arrogance up their candy asses..

they just have to take Ogier with them....

[Mirek]

...no need to suffer over the news, mate. VW is heavily capitalized, the stock dispersion is limited and the Porsche/Piech families still have the group control.

Porsche people getting more grip... first new boss of whole VAG, now also new boss of Škoda (former boss Vahland was sent to US to cope with the crisis).

[itix]

The only dominant force in the WRC is Ogier. Its not about budget, or car.
He would be a World Champion in the Ford, the Hyundai or the Citroën. That's how good he is. That's how big a difference a driver makes.
Just look at the differences in speed whiting VW, and that's between the three drivers in the WRC that VW thinks are the best.

Certainly agree with you there, but VW 1,2 and 3 is becoming boring.

[dodge33cymru]

Dominant driver and dominant car.

Either way, I doubt the VW team will be expected to change many plans; it's part of their sales and marketing strategy to make sales and they're going to need those sales more than ever. Fortunately, the new top brass have good history with supporting motorsport too, so here's hoping they stick around.

[N.O.T]

Americans say that " to save money by limiting advertising is like stopping the clock to save time" VW are not that stupid... relax girls, nothing is going to change VW plans in WRC

[AL14]

Americans say that " to save money by limiting advertising is like stopping the clock to save time" VW are not that stupid... relax girls, nothing is going to change VW plans in WRC

Stop WRC doesn't mean to stop advertising. They could still change their strategies.
But yes, I would not bet my money on their exit.

[Zeakiwi]

Has Alonso ever had a rally car test drive? or would Button be better to put in RX?

[itix]

Little off topic... I know You haven't written that in serious manner but actually if there was even a looooot of smoke everything would be ok :) The diesel combustion runs either with a lot of smoke or with a lot of NOx. If I remember well there is no other way. VW problem is a lot of NOx because even SCR is not some wonder-cure to erase the NOx totally. If they run the engines with less NOX they would have more smoke (that is not really a big problem with DPF) but also higher fuel consumption which would probably cost them the title of the most fuel-efficient brand on the US market...

Ok, I actually have insight in this issue and can thus answer this question rather well since I work with diesel ship engines on a daily basis.
NOx is created during the combustion phase of the diesel cycle and is dependent on combustion time (i.e slower engine speed equals more nox) and combustion temperature. Diesels combust at much higher temperature than petrol and it's relatively long stroke means it can't run as fast, which is why it is plagued much more by the issue of NOx than petrol engines.

You don't actually get rid of NOx by running the engine less stoichiometrically (which is when the smoke appears) so smoke doesn't mean no NOx. Smoke comes when the engine is running rich at which point you see the unburnt carbons in the exhaust. Petrol cars have the same issue with unburnt fuel and non stoichiometric running but petrol don't form the same carbon strains as diesel do so the unburnt fuel isn't visible (and therefor looks more environmental during hard acceleration or heavy load increases when it runs rich).

Diesels are also very dependent on good atomization to get good combustion or you will see the typical black smoke. If you have blown the injectors you'll notice the smoke.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to clarify my position. I don't actually neither expect nore hope for a VW exit, just some budget cuts so the racing would be a bit closer and not VW 1, 2, 3 on every single problem free rally!

Of course Ogier would still win but he'd maybe not win every rally of the season!

[Lundefaret]

Ok, I actually have insight in this issue and can thus answer this question rather well since I work with diesel ship engines on a daily basis.
NOx is created during the combustion phase of the diesel cycle and is dependent on combustion time (i.e slower engine speed equals more nox) and combustion temperature. Diesels combust at much higher temperature than petrol and it's relatively long stroke means it can't run as fast, which is why it is plagued much more by the issue of NOx than petrol engines.

You don't actually get rid of NOx by running the engine less stoichiometrically (which is when the smoke appears) so smoke doesn't mean no NOx. Smoke comes when the engine is running rich at which point you see the unburnt carbons in the exhaust. Petrol cars have the same issue with unburnt fuel and non stoichiometric running but petrol don't form the same carbon strains as diesel do so the unburnt fuel isn't visible (and therefor looks more environmental during hard acceleration or heavy load increases when it runs rich).

Diesels are also very dependent on good atomization to get good combustion or you will see the typical black smoke. If you have blown the injectors you'll notice the smoke.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to clarify my position. I don't actually neither expect nore hope for a VW exit, just some budget cuts so the racing would be a bit closer and not VW 1, 2, 3 on every single problem free rally!

Of course Ogier would still win but he'd maybe not win every rally of the season!

Very good diesel knowledge!

Regarding VW and the WRC, I think their either in it to win it, or out all together. VW doesn't do things half way in motorsport. If its WEC (the two top teams), DTM or WRC, they do it with full commitment.

[dimviii]

Colin Clark ‏@voiceofrally
China organiser apparently not happy at being asked to run event close to Beijing. Also hearing Abu Dhabi working towards 2017 calendar slot

[MikeD]

Very good diesel knowledge!

Regarding VW and the WRC, I think their either in it to win it, or out all together. VW doesn't do things half way in motorsport.

But they only did their cheating and manipulation 'half way' ;) - bye bye VW from WRC. Ogier will be driving a Citroën next year.

[Mariusz]

But they only did their cheating and manipulation 'half way' ;) - bye bye VW from WRC. Ogier will be driving a Citroën next year.

Nah, that would be too easy. Let him drive the new and improved Fiesta ;)

[tc10a]

But they only did their cheating and manipulation 'half way' ;) - bye bye VW from WRC. Ogier will be driving a Citroën next year.

Looks like you have some serious VW trauma. Bad for you that you will have to deal with them some more years to come.

[jbmarcus21]

Loeb is confirmed to drive DAKAR 2016
http://planetemarcus.com/loeb-et-elena-au-dakar-2016/

[Lundefaret]

But they only did their cheating and manipulation 'half way' ;) - bye bye VW from WRC. Ogier will be driving a Citroën next year.

I am sorry to say, that when they first decided to cheat, they did it all the way...

[tc10a]

Some News before todays WMSC Meeting:

China on provisional 2016 WRC calendar, but 14 rallies angers Teams...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121082

[timmo98]

tbh i wouldnt like another loeb domination with ogier, it would be boring 1995-2002 was fun :)

[rayh_mx]

In Mexico, 2016 is almost guaranteed the stretch of 80 kilometers and has the support of the official world tyre suply to take over.

[tc10a]

In Mexico, 2016 is almost guaranteed the stretch of 80 kilometers and has the support of the official world tyre suply to take over.
Sorry I am not sure what you mean, a single 80 km stage? what be great.

[jbmarcus21]

its done ! China enter to 2016 .. and WRC with 14 Rallyes !

http://planetemarcus.com/14-rallyes-valides-pour-la-saison-wrc-2016

[mousti]

I don't find it really big news that the calendar will be extended, a replacement would be better I guess

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11064914_1213784268650998_5131961204283930571_n.jp g?oh=0d1e7e34e4f85a256370357393296f17&oe=568BB43C

[Simmi]

Okay so now we have 14 rounds. Let's see if M-Sport and Citroen walk away like they said they would if this happens.

[Andre Oliveira]

Citroën wants China :) China is in.

[RS]

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11064914_1213784268650998_5131961204283930571_n.jp g?oh=0d1e7e34e4f85a256370357393296f17&oe=568BB43C

If I read that correctly Rally2 cars will no longer sweep on day two. Bad news for Ogier.

[Mirek]

Why do they want to furter limit power of supercharged R2 cars when there is only Fiesta R2T with turbo and that one was hardly the top R2 in 2015 season?

[Simmi]

Calendar situation is a real mess.

Manufacturers want China - but all want to keep 13 rounds to ensure budget remains similar.

FIA don't have the balls to axe an event - or rather - Jean Todt can't stomach seeing the French round rightly disappear.

We end up with not only an extra round, but an additional long-haul trip - so the budget goes up markedly for everyone.

[AndyRAC]

How many fans will turn up for Rally China? You'd hope it's more than 1999 - otherwise what's the point in going? Rallying is a 'live' sport rather than a TV sport.

[Barreis]

http://www.fia.com/news/fia-announces-world-motor-sport-council-decisions

[AL14]

I was a bit confident because sport was doing many step forward (wrc+, China, more manufacturers and more attention in general) but then I see that stupidity can always come back and ruin a lot of the improvement done till now.

14 rounds is the dumber solution they could take. They want to please everyone but in the mid and long term no one will benefit from it. Bravo.

[Toyoda]

I was a bit confident because sport was doing many step forward (wrc+, China, more manufacturers and more attention in general) but then I see that stupidity can always come back and ruin a lot of the improvement done till now.

14 rounds is the dumber solution they could take. They want to please everyone but in the mid and long term no one will benefit from it. Bravo.

IMO the Country with the best rally roads, the friendliest people, the best country side, a WRC driver in the top category and a country rich in motorsport history is once again not in the WRC,

GRRRRRRRR

(Totally biased on all fronts)

[sollitt]

The answers are;


How many fans will turn up for Rally China? You'd hope it's more than 1999 - otherwise what's the point in going? Rallying is a 'live' sport rather than a TV sport.
Very few will turn up to watch. There's little point. Rallying is a TV sport however very few Chinese will watch it.

[rayh_mx]

Sorry I am not sure what you mean, a single 80 km stage? what be great.

Sorry, I wanted to write stage and wrote strecht. This was said by Gilles Spitalier RallyMex CEO in an interview last September 16.

The note in Spanish. http://am.com.mx/irapuato/superdeportivo/quieren-rally-en-el-metropolitano-230391.html

[N.O.T]

The answers are;


Very few will turn up to watch. There's little point. Rallying is a TV sport however very few Chinese will watch it.

The "very few" in Chinese terms could add up to the population of Germany and France together which is good enough for anyone...

[Rally Power]

That's the point. China is the golden egg goose/chicken to cars manus from all around the world. You need to be there and attract consumers every possible way!

http://www.statista.com/statistics/269872/largest-automobile-markets-worldwide-based-on-new-car-registrations/

For sure it would be wiser to have China only after local organization proved to be 100% capable, but the pressure from top manus it's huge. Probably this extended calendar is going to be a short-lived compromise and has the advantage of avoiding a hasty decision on what current event should go away.

[sollitt]

That's the point. China is the golden egg goose/chicken to cars manus from all around the world. You need to be there and attract consumers every possible way! There is no question that the Chinese new car market is expanding rapidly. The questions are ... Will the Chinese buy European cars? ... and ... will they take sufficient interest in a motorsport event to notice the brands and to be swayed in their buying decisions?
The answers, in my view, are ... no they won't ... and ... no they won't.

For sure it would be wiser to have China only after local organization proved to be 100% capable .... This of course, is the country that in recent weeks has seen several large chemical explosions, one decimating an entire port town and killing hundreds, and a lady sucked into an escalator to her death in a swanky Shanghei shopping centre. Health and safety is not a high priority in this place.

[litifeta]

Will the Chinese buy European cars?

You mean Euro brands? Which Euro brands are NOT made in China?

[sollitt]

Which Euro brands are NOT made in China?They all are. Some are fair representations. Others are badge engineered atrocities made in fortune cookie factories. Fact is, WRC or no WRC, nothing will change because people won't be watching.

[litifeta]

the regular punters might not be watching. But over 60% of the world's population live within 2 time zones of China. They do not watch Euro live events because very often because the time shown is at unsociable hours. This will be a great benefit for many of us. Let's see what the viewing rates are compared to Europe.

[AL14]

There is no question that the Chinese new car market is expanding rapidly. The questions are ... Will the Chinese buy European cars? ... and ... will they take sufficient interest in a motorsport event to notice the brands and to be swayed in their buying decisions?
The answers, in my view, are ... no they won't ... and ... no they won't.
This of course, is the country that in recent weeks has seen several large chemical explosions, one decimating an entire port town and killing hundreds, and a lady sucked into an escalator to her death in a swanky Shanghei shopping centre. Health and safety is not a high priority in this place.


There is no question that the Chinese new car market is expanding rapidly. The questions are ... Will the Chinese buy European cars? ... and ... will they take sufficient interest in a motorsport event to notice the brands and to be swayed in their buying decisions?
The answers, in my view, are ... no they won't ... and ... no they won't.
This of course, is the country that in recent weeks has seen several large chemical explosions, one decimating an entire port town and killing hundreds, and a lady sucked into an escalator to her death in a swanky Shanghei shopping centre. Health and safety is not a high priority in this place.

Can you please argument why 2 billions of people in a state with an economic growth of +10% are not interested in buy new cars?
And by the way, a round in WRC is not made only for selling cars in that nation but for several other reasons. China is very different from 80s or 90s, they are not dumb people with a strange language and very good in karate and in rice harvest. It is better, and fair, if we take them into account.

[AL14]

Jost Capito said VW programme is safe. He talked with VW's board as soon as he heard about the scandal (which is a lie because they had something else to think about).

[N.O.T]

Jost Capito said VW programme is safe. He talked with VW's board as soon as he heard about the scandal (which is a lie because they had something else to think about).

Lies... Lies i tell you !!!!!

[Rallyper]

Lies... Lies i tell you !!!!!

So what to expect in your opinion?

[N.O.T]

So what to expect in your opinion?

i was joking young man.

[AL14]

I believe him when he says VW is safe. Don't believe him when he says he talked with the board the day of the scandal

[Rallyper]

i was joking young man.

Young! Moi! No, could be your grandfather almost. ;)

[Ounin]

I believe him when he says VW is safe. Don't believe him when he says he talked with the board the day of the scandal

When the board and all decision making management of VW is officially under investigation and the total amount of worldwide claims is uncertain, Jost Capito knows

[AL14]

Young! Moi! No, could be your grandfather almost. ;)

Don't worry, "young man" is good from him. He could have called you girl or kid, young man has a bit of respect.

[N.O.T]

Don't worry, "young man" is good from him. He could have called you girl or kid, young man has a bit of respect.

I love Rallyper too much to call him all that...

[Rallyper]

I love Rallyper too much to call him all that...

Love you like a brother or a son too though you are sometimes a bit outspoken! I´m serious.

[jbmarcus21]

WRC 2015 standings after Corsica (driver, manufacturers, stages winners) http://planetemarcus.com/saison-wrc/

[Simmi]

WRC 2015 standings after Corsica (driver, manufacturers, stages winners) http://planetemarcus.com/saison-wrc/

Thanks JB. Slightly strange rally but it has definitely closed up some of the standings. Okay the key positions are quite set or decided but there are a few nice battles there if you look hard enough.

[rallyace]

Definitely, Simmi. It's also not so much about the standings anymore as it is about momemtum for next year. Some drivers are fighting to earn their seat for next season (Meeke, Ostberg, arguably the M-Sport duo) whilst J-M Latvala fights to end the season on a good note and hopefully begin the next one on a high as a result of it.

All of this makes the WRC interesting and worthy to follow despite both the drivers' and manufacturers' championships having already been wrapped up.

The majority of the remaining drivers are looking to get some experience under their belt, and then there's Ogier, who is, well... he's Ogier. So he'll just want to win regardless of the standings. ;)

[Andre Oliveira]

Big part of "sucess" of Chinese round will be the entry list. National cars have the FIA permition to run like MR of Argentina?

[vino_93]

If nothing change, yes.

[WUff1]

Jean Todt has always been a powerful bullhead, so Corse will stay in calendar.

[Andre Oliveira]

I hope Tour de Corse stay, we need different rallies. If possible with more kms.

[dimviii]

Paddon answers plenty of questions at twitter(some interesting answers)
https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon

[Simmi]

Paddon answers plenty of questions at twitter(some interesting answers)
https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon

This answer definitely caught my eye - https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon/status/651110613465309184

We've seen Paddon have a word about Neuville in the past. Not sure how their relationship is.

[dimviii]

This answer definitely caught my eye - https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon/status/651110613465309184

We've seen Paddon have a word about Neuville in the past. Not sure how their relationship is.

thats exactly i meant.http://www.petrolheads.gr/images/smilies/smooth/biggrin.gif


close call for Paddonhttp://www.petrolheads.gr/images/smilies/oldforum/omg.gif
https://youtu.be/FsnAImVh7RY

[danon]

I see no call but cool control by Paddon compared to out of control by Neuville.

Paddon - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsnAImVh7RY&feature=youtu.be

Neuville - https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLVyRAt2cxbxvLNlZvutV_iwvVgG3kZK5g&t=1&v=KehVoj9mAnU

[AL14]

This answer definitely caught my eye - https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon/status/651110613465309184

We've seen Paddon have a word about Neuville in the past. Not sure how their relationship is.

This is quite interesting as well ;)
https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon/status/651122939815858177

[Simmi]

Breaking news: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-06/volkswagen-to-delay-or-cancel-all-non-essential-investments

No word yet on whether motorsport is seen as an 'essential investment'. Okay we have some assurances seemingly from VW in Corsica but honestly big decisions are being made all the time at board level. So let's see.

EDIT: Bit more here - http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/new-vw-boss-warns-workers-painful-cuts

You know for sure motorsport is being looked at.

[dimviii]

here we go...


Team Principal Hyundai, Michel Nandan regretted the absence of Thierry Neuville in the vanguard in Corsica, while the fight raged in the constructors.

"He and us big points visions, important in our fight with Citroen for 2nd place overall (184 points to 183 for the French brand now), but unfortunately saw his abandonment on SS1, this objective soon became impossible to achieve laments French. It is particularly unfortunate that the difficult conditions experienced Friday are usually a context that appreciates and in which he does very well normally. We know that in Rally2 start (with penalties so) is never easy, but a pro driver must learn to ignore it and motivate. As for the understeer, which he spoke, all drivers of all brands are complaining ... Perhaps his style suffers more, but it was already the case last year and he made a super season even as its start in 2015, moreover, absolutely fantastic. It should therefore not focus on it. Why things go less well in the second half of the season? I do not have the answer. And if you have, I'm interested ... We all know the qualities of his driving, but there may be a challenge to have, a step back to take to bounce back. "

http://www.lavenir.net/cnt/DMF20151005_00714864

[dimviii]

Neuville: "World Champion Yes With Hyundai or another?".

OLIVIER DE WILDE Published
Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 5:42 p.m. - Updated Thursday, October 1st, 2015 at 6:42



Criticized in recent weeks by the leaders of Hyundai but also in the press for his lack of motivation and performance considered, by some, "unworthy of a pilot of his rank," Thierry Neuville was speaking on the eve of the Tour de Corsica beginning this Friday. An exclusive and frankly not waffling maintenance.

Thierry, you have suffered a lot of criticism in recent weeks. Do you consider them to be justified?

"I've already admitted having experienced a slump, notably in Portugal where, because of low morale, I made a mistake. But I do not do it on purpose. It should be understood that since j I have the age of five, I dream to drive for a factory team in the WRC and become world champion. In 2013, with Ford, I was runner-up. I then signed with Hyundai hoping to go a step further. In 2014, I certainly won my first world rally but the regular, although everyone knows can not play before. We had announced the new car for the month of May. When I learned that it would begin in January, I was disappointed, that's normal. Two years is a bit long ... "

But since you've recaptured. Are you satisfied with your seventh place in Australia?

"From the gross profit, no. But I was the first on the road behind the VW. Tenth and eleventh on the road, my teammates enjoyed a much better position. We can not compare our performance. I made a good rally. It was not possible to go faster. We must not forget that our goals are not the same. I have to score points for the Championship manufacturers. Most important, it ' is the team. Second place behind VW is our priority. You know, from Sardinia, I scored 52 points. Only Ogier and Latvala have done better. And at this stage of the championship, I registered more units than last year. "

Your balance is positive?

"With this material, it is difficult to do better. Everyone knows that at the beginning of the season, I shot several victories. My ambitions were postponed with the debut of the new car."

What do you think of the look of the new Hyundai WRC presented at the IAA?

"It was only a model that has nothing to do with real WRC."

Have you participated in the recent tests the new car?

"Not because I was co-driving sessions in Paris. Kevin (Abbring) Hayden (Paddon) and Dani (Sordo) took turns at the wheel, but it was all planned. I prefer to arrive when it really moving. It will be the case after Corsica and especially after Spain. "

The team director Michel Nandan seems upset that your manager discusses with other manufacturers ...

"I doubt he is annoyed by this. This is normal. Everyone does his work. It stands just informed ..."

Could you decide to leave the Korean factory end of 2016?

"We are still far away. For 2017, there will be new regulations and many things could change."

Do you still think you can become a world champion with Hyundai?

(After a long silence). "World champion yes, I will continue to fight for it with Hyundai or another manufacturer, that we will see will depend 2016. I feel good in this team, but I want to. have the means to win. "

[EightGear]

Neuville really seems a bit spoiled. Of course I understand his disappointment but he should be over that by now.

No excuses anymore next year.

[Eli]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/nachrichten/artikel/d/2015/10/06/wm-kalender-deutschland-bleibt-im-august/
Corsica between Mexico & Argentina as if it's isn't expensive enough..

[rallyfiend]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/nachrichten/artikel/d/2015/10/06/wm-kalender-deutschland-bleibt-im-august/
Corsica between Mexico & Argentina as if it's isn't expensive enough..

How does that make it more expensive?

apart from the cars and essential parts, they use different equipment for the long haul and european events.

Given that it must take a few weeks to get this long haul container stuff from Mexico to Argentina, you may as well do another event somewhere in Europe...

[stefanvv]

Neuville really seems a bit spoiled. Of course I understand his disappointment but he should be over that by now.

No excuses anymore next year.

Sometimes I wonder who has bigger ego - he or Ogier...

[Mariusz]

How does that make it more expensive?

apart from the cars and essential parts, they use different equipment for the long haul and european events.

Given that it must take a few weeks to get this long haul container stuff from Mexico to Argentina, you may as well do another event somewhere in Europe...

It makes it more expensive that you've got to have two cars per driver. One with gravel setup goes to Mexico and then to Argentina, the other one with tarmac setup stays in Europe. It may be okayish for manufacturers, but probably no private team can do it. But maybe that's the goal, to get rid of privateers doing full championship.

[COD]

When I keep hearing so many stories that Neuville is a bit of a pricess, there nust be some truth in it too

[danon]

Did you mean princess?

[RAS007]

Neuville: "World Champion Yes With Hyundai or another?".

OLIVIER DE WILDE Published
Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 5:42 p.m. - Updated Thursday, October 1st, 2015 at 6:42



Criticized in recent weeks by the leaders of Hyundai but also in the press for his lack of motivation and performance considered, by some, "unworthy of a pilot of his rank," Thierry Neuville was speaking on the eve of the Tour de Corsica beginning this Friday. An exclusive and frankly not waffling maintenance.

Thierry, you have suffered a lot of criticism in recent weeks. Do you consider them to be justified?

"I've already admitted having experienced a slump, notably in Portugal where, because of low morale, I made a mistake. But I do not do it on purpose. It should be understood that since j I have the age of five, I dream to drive for a factory team in the WRC and become world champion. In 2013, with Ford, I was runner-up. I then signed with Hyundai hoping to go a step further. In 2014, I certainly won my first world rally but the regular, although everyone knows can not play before. We had announced the new car for the month of May. When I learned that it would begin in January, I was disappointed, that's normal. Two years is a bit long ... "

But since you've recaptured. Are you satisfied with your seventh place in Australia?

"From the gross profit, no. But I was the first on the road behind the VW. Tenth and eleventh on the road, my teammates enjoyed a much better position. We can not compare our performance. I made a good rally. It was not possible to go faster. We must not forget that our goals are not the same. I have to score points for the Championship manufacturers. Most important, it ' is the team. Second place behind VW is our priority. You know, from Sardinia, I scored 52 points. Only Ogier and Latvala have done better. And at this stage of the championship, I registered more units than last year. "

Your balance is positive?

"With this material, it is difficult to do better. Everyone knows that at the beginning of the season, I shot several victories. My ambitions were postponed with the debut of the new car."

What do you think of the look of the new Hyundai WRC presented at the IAA?

"It was only a model that has nothing to do with real WRC."

Have you participated in the recent tests the new car?

"Not because I was co-driving sessions in Paris. Kevin (Abbring) Hayden (Paddon) and Dani (Sordo) took turns at the wheel, but it was all planned. I prefer to arrive when it really moving. It will be the case after Corsica and especially after Spain. "

The team director Michel Nandan seems upset that your manager discusses with other manufacturers ...

"I doubt he is annoyed by this. This is normal. Everyone does his work. It stands just informed ..."

Could you decide to leave the Korean factory end of 2016?

"We are still far away. For 2017, there will be new regulations and many things could change."

Do you still think you can become a world champion with Hyundai?

(After a long silence). "World champion yes, I will continue to fight for it with Hyundai or another manufacturer, that we will see will depend 2016. I feel good in this team, but I want to. have the means to win. "

Sounds like he's gone. And yes, he does look like a bit of a princess.

[N.O.T]

Whats wrong with the Belgian drivers ? Duval became a hamburger boy and Neuville now seems he is heading that way ? Do their moms hug them a lot more than normal when they are young and become full of mental issues ?

[AL14]

I start to believe that we will never know why this guy is behaving like this. He lost himself all of a sudden. I cannot believe he stop being a good driver just because of the delay od the new car. It could have been ok for one rally or two but not for this long time...

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Sometimes I wonder who has bigger ego - he or Ogier...
The answer is too obvious. Both of them..:p

[stefanvv]

The answer is too obvious. Both of them..:p

hahaha, it might be, but in the context of rallying Ogier has some justification though.....

[er88]

Give Neuville a full season in the new car first, before lynching him.
Anyone remember McRae's horrible run of form in 1999 and into 2000, when he was driving a car that wasn't yet good enough? After wins in safari and portugal in 1999, McRae didnt score points untill Sweden the following year. A truly horrible run of form, and there were a lot of accidents during that spell, not just reliabilityy issues..

He didn't throw in the towel as such, but as a driver who believed he was quick enough to compete with anyone, its only natural his motivation/concentration/focus might have dipped ever so slighty. Even just by 1%. And thats when mistakes creep in/ pace drops a little. I personally think the same has happened with Thierry (although i could easily be wrong).

Thierry rightly or wrongly thinks he can push Ogier if he had a good car. He believes in his abilities. He had a great year at Ford finishinng 2nd in the championship, spent a year developing the Hyundai but still won his first rally. So i bet he really felt he could push on this year and challenge Ogier when the new car was meant to arrive. But after finding out it was to be delayed till next season, its understandable his motivation might have dipped slighty.
So he's in a tricky situation, he has to push beyond his limits just to fightt for a podium because the car isn't great (by doing this he'll probably crash a lot). Or he can drive at 90% and drive around trying to collect 5th or 6th place. He will probably get criticised either way. Also, he doesnt have a place in the team to win/ a new contract to gain. He is safe and doesnt need to fight for his immediate future. Whereas Paddon had to show great speed this year or his chances of getting a full drive in 2016 would have been bleak. So that could be another reason for being "outpaced" by his teamate recently. Admittedly, it would be complacency if that was the case.


He has suffered a dip in form, but i think the reason everyone is on his back so much is because we desperately need someone to challenge Ogier. And Neuville was/is the big hope. That's a lot of expectation, but people need to get real. He is still young and is driving a car that isn't a VW beater whatsoever. He should be judged this time next year, after a full season in what Hyundai claim to be a car capable of challenging the VW. If he is still crashing or getting outpaced by Paddon and others, then that's when he deserves all the criticism he gets.

[DonJippo]

Whats wrong with the Belgian drivers ? Duval became a hamburger boy and Neuville now seems he is heading that way ? Do their moms hug them a lot more than normal when they are young and become full of mental issues ?

Who are the people he has behind of him? By any chance are they same as Duval had?

[Duvel]

Give Neuville a full season in the new car first, before lynching him.
Anyone remember McRae's horrible run of form in 1999 and into 2000, when he was driving a car that wasn't yet good enough? After wins in safari and portugal in 1999, McRae didnt score points untill Sweden the following year. A truly horrible run of form, and there were a lot of accidents during that spell, not just reliabilityy issues..

He didn't throw in the towel as such, but as a driver who believed he was quick enough to compete with anyone, its only natural his motivation/concentration/focus might have dipped ever so slighty. Even just by 1%. And thats when mistakes creep in/ pace drops a little. I personally think the same has happened with Thierry (although i could easily be wrong).

Thierry rightly or wrongly thinks he can push Ogier if he had a good car. He believes in his abilities. He had a great year at Ford finishinng 2nd in the championship, spent a year developing the Hyundai but still won his first rally. So i bet he really felt he could push on this year and challenge Ogier when the new car was meant to arrive. But after finding out it was to be delayed till next season, its understandable his motivation might have dipped slighty.
So he's in a tricky situation, he has to push beyond his limits just to fightt for a podium because the car isn't great (by doing this he'll probably crash a lot). Or he can drive at 90% and drive around trying to collect 5th or 6th place. He will probably get criticised either way. Also, he doesnt have a place in the team to win/ a new contract to gain. He is safe and doesnt need to fight for his immediate future. Whereas Paddon had to show great speed this year or his chances of getting a full drive in 2016 would have been bleak. So that could be another reason for being "outpaced" by his teamate recently. Admittedly, it would be complacency if that was the case.


He has suffered a dip in form, but i think the reason everyone is on his back so much is because we desperately need someone to challenge Ogier. And Neuville was/is the big hope. That's a lot of expectation, but people need to get real. He is still young and is driving a car that isn't a VW beater whatsoever. He should be judged this time next year, after a full season in what Hyundai claim to be a car capable of challenging the VW. If he is still crashing or getting outpaced by Paddon and others, then that's when he deserves all the criticism he gets.

Interesting view on the issue, i agree whit most of your opinions.
Still a shame he can not find his motivation again, but as you sead, hopes were high for 2015 season, al but podiums is bad result for most fans

[Simmi]

I think Neuville has a right to be aggrieved in the sense that Hyundai sold him the dream back in 2013 and haven't delivered on what they promised.

That said, was he offered a better situation anywhere else? I'm not sure he was and I'd imagine he's being paid well by Hyundai with undisputed number 1 status. Regardless of whether you're happy or not, it doesn't explain why he is being shown up and regularly out-paced by either less experienced or lower-rated drivers. If he ever wants to actually improve his situation he needs to play the game a bit. His stock is at an all-time low.

[dodge33cymru]

Agreed, he has reason to be frustrated but it's hardly the mark of a champion that he's no longer the certain fastest driver in a Hyundai and doesn't seem to be really doing much about that. Very surprised in that interview that he's not more apologetic and stating that his focus is on learning the events for next year.

He's certainly not going to move for next year, seeing as he's on a large contract and no-one else will offer him similar terms on his current form, so if he does want to achieve that goal he's either going to have to get the best put of Hyundai or do enough next year to convince Toyota of his value.

[danon]

http://s5.postimg.org/50acsauh3/tnprss.jpg

[itix]

Give Neuville a full season in the new car first, before lynching him.
Anyone remember McRae's horrible run of form in 1999 and into 2000, when he was driving a car that wasn't yet good enough? After wins in safari and portugal in 1999, McRae didnt score points untill Sweden the following year. A truly horrible run of form, and there were a lot of accidents during that spell, not just reliabilityy issues..

He didn't throw in the towel as such, but as a driver who believed he was quick enough to compete with anyone, its only natural his motivation/concentration/focus might have dipped ever so slighty. Even just by 1%. And thats when mistakes creep in/ pace drops a little. I personally think the same has happened with Thierry (although i could easily be wrong).

Thierry rightly or wrongly thinks he can push Ogier if he had a good car. He believes in his abilities. He had a great year at Ford finishinng 2nd in the championship, spent a year developing the Hyundai but still won his first rally. So i bet he really felt he could push on this year and challenge Ogier when the new car was meant to arrive. But after finding out it was to be delayed till next season, its understandable his motivation might have dipped slighty.
So he's in a tricky situation, he has to push beyond his limits just to fightt for a podium because the car isn't great (by doing this he'll probably crash a lot). Or he can drive at 90% and drive around trying to collect 5th or 6th place. He will probably get criticised either way. Also, he doesnt have a place in the team to win/ a new contract to gain. He is safe and doesnt need to fight for his immediate future. Whereas Paddon had to show great speed this year or his chances of getting a full drive in 2016 would have been bleak. So that could be another reason for being "outpaced" by his teamate recently. Admittedly, it would be complacency if that was the case.


He has suffered a dip in form, but i think the reason everyone is on his back so much is because we desperately need someone to challenge Ogier. And Neuville was/is the big hope. That's a lot of expectation, but people need to get real. He is still young and is driving a car that isn't a VW beater whatsoever. He should be judged this time next year, after a full season in what Hyundai claim to be a car capable of challenging the VW. If he is still crashing or getting outpaced by Paddon and others, then that's when he deserves all the criticism he gets.

Since I was 11 and 12 during those seasons, I don't remember much (and I'm too lazy to go through Ewrc stage times). Was McRae's speed also lacking during this period or was it simply crashing/mech failure while in contention for good results (compared to his team mates mainly of course)?

Because what we see from Neuville is a clear lack of pace as well.

[Toyoda]

What suprises me is that in the interview he said he was not interested in developing the car until right at the end. He needs to get the car built around him, meaning more testing input, although I have heard he is not as mechanically minded as other drivers such as paddon

[itix]

What suprises me is that in the interview he said he was not interested in developing the car until right at the end. He needs to get the car built around him, meaning more testing input, although I have heard he is not as mechanically minded as other drivers such as paddon

He did fix his radiator with chewing gum and beer!
Although you don't really need to be a genius to do that...

[Toyoda]

He did fix his radiator with chewing gum and beer!
Although you don't really need to be a genius to do that...

True that

[dimviii]

somebody to help with translation?

http://oi57.tinypic.com/k37j81.jpg

[EightGear]

Technical director fired?

[Jasper]

somebody to help with translation?

http://oi57.tinypic.com/k37j81.jpg

Yes technical director fired. After a broken turbo and engine during a test the team didn't get data from him (i think?). That doesn't comfort Neuville, people are talking about a return to Citroën in 2017, even sooner when the tests aren't convincing.

[Simmi]

Not great news if the 2016 car is potentially not sorted yet. That was Neuville's beacon of hope.

But how can people start linking Neuville to Citroen in 2017 when Citroen don't seem to know what they are doing for '17?

[dimviii]

Not great news if the 2016 car is potentially not sorted yet. That was Neuville's beacon of hope.


cant find any connection with Neuvilles bad pace with the unfinished new i20....

[car]

What suprises me is that in the interview he said he was not interested in developing the car until right at the end. He needs to get the car built around him, meaning more testing input, although I have heard he is not as mechanically minded as other drivers such as paddon

That is a possibly a really good point. Can any forum members with sufficient knowledge speak about how much impact a driver can have in the very first stages of car development (in terms of directing a car set-up to his/her preference)?
If it's a lot then I agree, Neuville should be getting stuck in right from the start!

[AL14]

Yes technical director fired. After a broken turbo and engine during a test the team didn't get data from him (i think?). That doesn't comfort Neuville, people are talking about a return to Citroën in 2017, even sooner when the tests aren't convincing.

Do they really fire him without being sure about having all the data shared with anybody else? Really? This is a joke, can't believe it.

[Jasper]

Do they really fire him without being sure about having all the data shared with anybody else? Really? This is a joke, can't believe it.


Probably there's much more around it. I just translated the piece of journalism.

[AL14]

Probably there's much more around it. I just translated the piece of journalism.
Yes maybe. I hope so.

[danon]

Police raid VW headquarters as probe mounts in Germany, US - http://news.yahoo.com/german-police-raid-scandal-hit-volkswagens-hq-131127901.html

[itix]

That is a possibly a really good point. Can any forum members with sufficient knowledge speak about how much impact a driver can have in the very first stages of car development (in terms of directing a car set-up to his/her preference)?
If it's a lot then I agree, Neuville should be getting stuck in right from the start!

I'm mostly an engine guy and I am not so well versed in the handling side of a car, but I imagine that this is the area where the driver really can make a difference in testing. He/she can feel the traction out of the corners and the yaw and roll of the car. Also a driver with a certain driving style can get the balance of the car good I guess. There better experts at this than me.

Engines are usually run in a dyno of sorts and engine development process is very different from road testing.

[Martins Tolks]

I'm mostly an engine guy and I am not so well versed in the handling side of a car, but I imagine that this is the area where the driver really can make a difference in testing. He/she can feel the traction out of the corners and the yaw and roll of the car. Also a driver with a certain driving style can get the balance of the car good I guess. There better experts at this than me.

Engines are usually run in a dyno of sorts and engine development process is very different from road testing.

Wan't Makkinen often accused of building EVO around his driving style so noone of teammate couldn't really win with that car?

[Simmi]

Yeah leaving the early development donkey work to team-mates is hardly the sign of a team leader. You wouldn't see a guy like Sainz do that. Or guys like Makinen and Loeb who had cars built around them.

[Lundefaret]

Wan't Makkinen often accused of building EVO around his driving style so noone of teammate couldn't really win with that car?

Well, when You have a driving style that wins You four consecutive World Championship titles, maybe thats not such a bad idea. And maybe the other drivers, instead of trying to adapt the car to their driving "style", should rather adapt them self to the car?

[Andre Oliveira]

Neuville in N team to Wales

http://www.pressreleasemanager.co.uk/downloadReleaseFile.asp?id=2DB9F886-0437-4DF4-9325-E404990411E6

[Simmi]

Something to throw into the general mix around Citroen's future.

Polestar (Volvo) have just announced their entry to the WTCC for next year, actually giving Citroen some more credible opposition to beat. Yves Matton welcomed their news on Twitter.

So a boost for the WTCC argument I'd say.

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121320 calendar issues

[Simmi]

This is the same piece that was published in MN last Wednesday. Todt is basically putting his hands over his ears saying "la la la - not my problem". When, from what I can see, he's allowed a very muddled, unbalanced WRC Commission to form under his watch.

What was also in that MN article was that apparently, despite all four teams publicly saying they don't want 14 rounds, one of them privately voted in support of it!

I'm also not really sure how Corsica think they are in a position of strength right now to argue with anyone.

[AndyRAC]

Monte will do what they want - their event is almost bigger than the sport. They ran outside the WRC in 2009-2011 and got extensive Live TV coverage. I'm sure the ERC would welcome them if the WRC were brave/ stupid enough to leave then off the calendar.

Agree about Todt though - came in to power wanting to resurrect the WRC but often leaves it to others to sort out. Does he have other motives?

[AL14]

New PR/Marketing consultants for Ogier.

http://is.elf.mylogomail.com/new/en_send_preview_iframe2.aspx?SID=10&SiteID=10493&NewsletterID=97809&EmailID=11374947&hitid=0&token=4b133e072e7461234d4c37ad2dc0ea071526f641

Is this the reason why he did not yet react at the decision about rally2 drivers position in the start order on day2? Was he waiting to someone who calmed him down? :)

[rallyfiend]

New PR/Marketing consultants for Ogier.

http://is.elf.mylogomail.com/new/en_send_preview_iframe2.aspx?SID=10&SiteID=10493&NewsletterID=97809&EmailID=11374947&hitid=0&token=4b133e072e7461234d4c37ad2dc0ea071526f641

Is this the reason why he did not yet react at the decision about rally2 drivers position in the start order on day2? Was he waiting to someone who calmed him down? :)

Not sure there's too much to read in to that.

That's the same guy who manage's Mrs Ogier. Probably get a bulk discount....

[AL14]

Not sure there's too much to read in to that.

That's the same guy who manage's Mrs Ogier. Probably get a bulk discount....

Dear friend, there's nothing to read in to it. It is useless information as you say. It's just a way to fill our empty lifes in the break from one rally to another. ;)

[Eli]

http://www.maxrally.com/2015/10/16/todt-dreams-the-dream

[liposh]

Todt is fascinating man. He is saying so many words without telling anything. May I learn it somewhere?

[dimviii]

WRC drivers open to boycotting stages after Australia night furore

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121357?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[itix]

Capito: "the night stage doesn't add anything but risk.
The spectators don't see anything"

What? Sorry Capito, have you ever been at a night stage? I have and it is lovely. Serioiusly, there is nothing more spectacular than standing there in the night or early morning in the darkness, waiting for the cars to come...

...and if you can see far from where you are standing you can see the headlights as they snake their way through the stage, it is LOVELY! There should be a lot more night stages, and if you have problems getting good shots, send up a drone with a go pro or whatever, I can guarantee it will be lovely shots of the headlights snaking through the stage! Not to mention tarmac rallies in the dark when they cook their brakes and the discs start glowing in the dark... that is a sight to behold.

You say a lot of crap in the media Capito, but his has to earn some form of award.

[tomhlord]

Capito: "the night stage doesn't add anything but risk.
The spectators don't see anything"

What? Sorry Capito, have you ever been at a night stage? I have and it is lovely. Serioiusly, there is nothing more spectacular than standing there in the night or early morning in the darkness, waiting for the cars to come...

...and if you can see far from where you are standing you can see the headlights as they snake their way through the stage, it is LOVELY! There should be a lot more night stages, and if you have problems getting good shots, send up a drone with a go pro or whatever, I can guarantee it will be lovely shots of the headlights snaking through the stage! Not to mention tarmac rallies in the dark when they cook their brakes and the discs start glowing in the dark... that is a sight to behold.

You say a lot of crap in the media Capito, but his has to earn some form of award.
A night stage on tarmac, or snow, I agree. A night stage on a dry gravel event...not so sure.

[Simmi]

There are night stages with atmosphere:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJyZZoMdApo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Bs0g7X7h8

We know this.

But I don't really think that's the point. Being constantly asked about this pointless Australia stage is leading people to make sweeping generalizations which I'm not sure they really mean. I think this year we've seen some interesting test cases as to the mentality of the 2015 WRC service park. If rallying is wanting to go back to its roots even slightly it is going to have to drag this crop of participants and team principals kicking and screaming.

Some things are worth arguing about and fighting for. I don't think dry gravel night stages are one of them. They aren't worth the hassle. Just get rid and find other ways to make your rally more interesting.

[Lundefaret]

"Why dont they just slow down?" (A question from my girlfriend)

I told my partner about this discussion, and the drivers complaining about the dust and the danger. Her answer was "why dont they just slow down?" (She is a Paramedic, driving an Ambulance for a living.)
Sorry Meeke, Ogier, Neuville and You others - I really didn't have any good answer to that... :)

A mother going to pick up her children would drive in dust and darkness, so why not the worlds best drivers?
And if we start to listen to the drivers and Capito now, where would this path lead us?
Where should we draw the line of what is acceptable danger?
And who should decide?

Look at Corsica and that butt clenching hairpin we have discussed here on this forum. The non-rally people I have showed it to are standing gobsmacked with jaws on their knees, because of the inherent danger and risk.
Rolling backwards off that hill would lead to a very bad accident, possibly lethal.
Should corners like that be outlawed?

What about the threes lining the stages in Finland?
As the stages in Corsica they have both injured and killed people.
Should we start cutting the threes down, creating safety zones?
What about heavy fog?
Heavy rain?
Heavy snow?
Where should one draw the line?

Capito says: "If something is not safe then I won't let out drivers out"

Well, not safe?
Rallying is not safe - nor should it be completely safe.
Its part of the attraction and the spectacle.
But its a difference to being safe for the spectators, drivers or cars.

The three different safety aspects as I see it:

Nr 1: The spectators: The safety of the spectators is by far the most important safety aspect.

Nr 2: The cars: Safety in the cars are the second most important safety factor. (This is why I want central seating position, with the codriver behind the driver, like in a Yamaha OX99-11, or a Rocket (Gordon Murray). (But safety off the cars, not that important.)

Nr 3: The rallies: The rallies should be safe for the spectators, but not for the cars. But the cars should protect the drivers.

Off course I understand that there are some special circumstances. Heavy dust, night, no wind, too short intervals between the cars, and I also accept that this one stage could be discussed. But these drivers are supposed to be the best drivers in the world, on and in every condition. So where should You draw the line?

In the Norwegian winter we can get some very extreme driving conditions. A combination of heavy, wet snow, darkness and fog is maybe the most extreme. So what do the mother driving 30 km to the danceclass to pick up her children do?
Does she contact the autorities demanding all traffic to be shut down?
Answer: No.
Does she phone here kids telling them that they have to spend the night at the dance hall because she thinks its to dangerous to drive?
Answer: No.

With the extra risk of meeting large trucks, of having no codriver that can yell out pace notes, with no four wheel drive or high grip tires, with no roll cage, helmet or other safety protection, she takes on the conditions at hand, and uses the very same tools that the WRC drivers have at hand to get trough them:They are called a brake- and an accelerator pedal.

If the worlds supposedly best and toughest drivers can't drive trough some Australian dust with out being a danger to them self because, they are not able to adjust their speed accordingly, then: "Huston we have a problem."

The only legit reason for not running that stage is the unfair advantage to the first on the road. But the advantage or disadvantage of running position can never be totally fair in rallying.

Feeling safe vs. being safe.

What is this "dust gate" about?
Its about the drivers feelings.
Feeling uncertain.
Feeling scared.

But the drivers - and Capito - should know that there is a HUGE difference between perceived danger and actual danger.

Alone in the woods at night in the dark. Its very easy to feel unsafe. You dont see much, but You hear noises. Whats out there?
Will it hurt me?
But its few places where You are more safe than out in the woods at night in the dark.

Out on the pub with Your best friend on Saturday night. Feeling safe and certain. There are few times during the week - being in traffic maybe the only one for most people - that are more dangerous.

I understand that the drivers feel unsafe hurtling into the unknown, dust taking away almost all line of sight, on this stage in Australia. But is it an increase in precieved danger or actual danger?

One have to look at the statistics to find out if this stage lead to an increase in crashes, injuries or deaths,

Perceived danger on tarmac.
Rallying on tarmac is statistically the most dangerous thing rally drivers do. And the better the conditions (higher grip), the more dangerous it is for the drivers and spectators.
So what do the drivers cry out for?
Tires with less grip on dry tarmac?
No..
They cry out for tires with more grip on wet tarmac.

You can argue that there is a need for monsoon tires to try prevent aquaplaning, but what would happen?
If the conditions are bad enough there is always a chance of aquaplaning, and with better tires You raise the treshold for that happening - but You also raise the speed for when its happening. Have the drivers really thought this trough?

Rallying always needs to develop safety. And these are the most pressing matters:

First: A really good plan towards spectator safety needs to be made, and executed - whit out taking away to much pleasure for the rally spectators.

Second: There needs to be a big discussion on tarmac rallying. How could it be made safer, both for spectators and drivers. One easy solution is to take away grip. This lowers the difference in grip in and outside the line/road, and also lowers the speeds, and the abruptness of when You loose grip.
Example: If all tarmac rallies where run on gravel wheels, they would be much safer.

Thirdly: Driver safety should be addressed. There are two aspects that are most pressing:
A) Corner speed of the cars.
High corner speeds leads to higher risk. This can be lowered with decreasing grip levels, both by limiting tires, suspension (mechanical grip) and aerodynamics. In the most extreme You could have RWD cars with limits on tires and suspension (but at the same time opening for increase in engine and aerodynamics to keep up the spectacle)
B) Driver occupant safety. The positioning of the seats so close to the side of the rally car could be delt with by seating the driver and codriver in a central driving position with the drivers first and codriver behind the driver.

So my question to all the WRC-drivers:
So why dont You just slow down?

[AndyRAC]

Agree! Putting night stages in a dry gravel event is asking for trouble. Put them in events were they will add something; snow, Tarmac, wet wintry gravel events.

I remember being at the hairpin in Hafren on the RAC Rally 1995 for the 2nd run through; it was dark, but the atmosphere was electric.Too many of the current WRC have forgotten, or don't know what made the sport so great - and prefer the watered down version we currently have.

[tommeke_B]

Great post @Lundefaret. Although I think it's unrealistic to limit grip on tarmac too much. I think that's what's acceptable has already happened, with the single-thread tyres. Even if you would allow only the type of tyres that are street-legal, the grip level would still be quite high.

About the dust-thing... In Belgium (Sezoens Rally) some very big (one almost fatal) accident happened some years ago. It was a stage with laps, with some gravel parts. Imagine a 1,5km long straight on gravel with heavy braking for a slow corner after, another car passed 20s before him so it was full of thick dust. The driver didn't see where he was (obviously) and was braking way too late for a slower corner, he hitted a large tree when going off. Could he brake too late without dust? Yes. Could he make a mistake that big?.. ;) So yes, it adds danger, the driver thought he had a big margin but was just wrong. Maybe an even bigger danger comes after that, slowing the car that comes after, if the crashed car is still on the road... Slowing down isn't an option for WRC drivers, you will lose so much seconds that you can't recover it, no matter how long the event is. Of all current WRC drivers, I don't think anyone would slow down for dust. Maybe dust isn't the real problem for drivers, I think the problem is that someone else could do the stage without dust. If you have fog, it's there for everyone until it clears up, that's something different...

[stefanvv]

@Lundefaret, while I completely agree with Your post, this is Rally and that means more or less "drivers can jump into a volcano and spring up from it without a scratch", so Rally is to handle the most difficult conditions You can possibly meet on the way and survive at the end. In the beginning it has been just marathon with not very reliable vehicles.
Now times are different, the spectators want more speed, more sideways, more noise, etc, etc. Everything (well may be without the noise) is unsafe. So I kind of agree with Capito - night stage in the dust doesn't really bring nothing for anybody, especially for (their Majesty) the spectators, and I know what a night stage is about.... noise, lights and the rest Rally brings....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Big news announcement today for Paddon according to his Twitter feed...

[EightGear]

New 3-year deal for Paddon with Hyundai until 2018.

[Andre Oliveira]

Press release: http://www.pressreleasemanager.co.uk/viewPressRelease.asp?ID=F24CF89F-0A1E-4F8B-BF10-B58F7EC6B6A6

[Munkvy]

So does this mean a three car team? Or just two teams as it is now? Good news either way!

[AL14]

Good news indeed. Well deserved three years contract. Let's go Hayden, now it's time to take the first victory, then we want NZ back in the calendar and then again maybe, after so many years, a world champion who is not french...

[EstWRC]

Great! Neuville's nightmare continues :P

[dimviii]

Hayden Paddon ‏@HaydenPaddon

The dream is getting closer....Over the moon to be continuing with our family at @HyundaiWRC for 3 years. Now aim ��

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRs8E9wWcAARtPU.jpg

THE DREAM IS GETTING CLOSER Amazing to sign with our family at Hyundai Motorsport for the next 3 years! We now have the opportunity of a lifetime to focus on the #1 spot. Exciting times ahead and looking forward to sharing every one of them with you! Now time to find that extra gear and push . A big thanks to everyone that has been part of this journey over the last 20 years and I think the most exciting part is still to come.....you all helped make this happen. Thank you


very well deserved!!

[Simmi]

Hyundai confirm Paddon, Neuville and Sordo all retained for next year. No surprises there since the latter two were under contract.

Congrats to Hayden. Only WRC driver to have a contract in place post-2016 I believe.

[EightGear]

I am a bit surprised to see them keeping Sordo, although I can imagine Hyundai will want to maximize the potential of their new car with experienced drivers. Paddon has more than earned a deal like this.

Curious to see where this leaves Abbring, besides testing their R5 and 2017 WRC (?).

[dimviii]

Abbring maybe selected wrc rounds+testing+ erc with new r5 i20?

[EightGear]

Well he has sort of said he has a kind of similar deal for next year compared to this year. So yes maybe some WRC rounds again in the second half of the season.

For 2017 the only thing we know about WRC is Toyota coming back and Paddon having a contract.

[French_Paulo]

Well he has sort of said he has a kind of similar deal for next year compared to this year. So yes maybe some WRC rounds again in the second half of the season.

For 2017 the only thing we know about WRC is Toyota coming back and Paddon having a contract.


Mikkelsen have a contract for 3 years too !
So, 2017 : Toyota, VW, Mikkelsen and Paddon.

So happy for Hayden ! He is a great driver!

[Simmi]

Mikkelsen have a contract for 3 years too !
So, 2017 : Toyota, VW, Mikkelsen and Paddon.

So happy for Hayden ! He is a great driver!

Ahh yes - thanks French_Paulo. Had forgotten about this. Slightly vague wording around Mikkelsen's deal but he must have something in place at least through to the end of 2017 - maybe longer.

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/june/mikkelsen-deal/page/2523--12-12-.html

[RS]

Abbring maybe selected wrc rounds+testing+ erc with new r5 i20?

Sounds good. When is the R5 due?

[bassist]

Hayden Paddon ‏@HaydenPaddon

The dream is getting closer....Over the moon to be continuing with our family at @HyundaiWRC for 3 years. Now aim ��

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRs8E9wWcAARtPU.jpg

THE DREAM IS GETTING CLOSER Amazing to sign with our family at Hyundai Motorsport for the next 3 years! We now have the opportunity of a lifetime to focus on the #1 spot. Exciting times ahead and looking forward to sharing every one of them with you! Now time to find that extra gear and push . A big thanks to everyone that has been part of this journey over the last 20 years and I think the most exciting part is still to come.....you all helped make this happen. Thank you


very well deserved!!

Well done young man, hope you can take it to VW!!!

[Rally Power]

Don't know if it's Mitsubishi first official motorsport entry since Ralliart's close down, but MMC will be present in Baja Portalegre 500 (portuguese TT world cup round) with a prototype based on the Outlander PHEV (a plug-in hybrid SUV). Masuoka will be at the wheel.

http://autosport.pt/outlander-phev-estreia-se-na-baja-portalegre-500-com-hiroshi-masuoka=f140018

[dimviii]

Becs Williams
‏@Becsywecsy

FIA #WRC press conf: When I asked Kubica his plans for 2016 - 'I would be surprised to do WRC all season - there will be a change'

edit

Robert Kubica has admitted he wants to do "something different" next year, rather than continuing in the World Rally Championship.

The ex-Formula 1 driver has competed in rallying full-time for the last three years - in Citroens and M-Sport-built Fords - but he has become increasingly frustrated by the lack of opportunities to secure a factory seat.

While the Pole is likely to be seen on some rallies, a move back to circuit racing appears increasingly certain.

Asked if he had any news on his 2016 programme on the eve of Rally Spain, he said: "Yes and no.

"I don't know exactly what I will be doing, I have something in my mind.

"I would be surprised to do WRC all season - there will be a change. I don't know if I [will] do WRC at all or not, for sure there will be something different.

"I have changed a bit in my mind. Three years ago, I come back after the accident and I was looking for a new challenge - rallying was a very big challenge.

"Next year is the time to have something different and probably end up doing some different things and maybe the rally as well."

Kubica has previously stated he would be ready to step back to WRC2 to fight at the front of a category, and dovetailing a six- or seven-round rally programme with circuit racing is a strong possibility.

The 30-year-old tested DTM machinery with Mercedes in 2013 and has fielded offers from teams in a variety of categories in recent years.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121434?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Rally Power]

Where ever he goes he'll keep being a true inspiration. Best luck to RK!

[N.O.T]

good decision for both Kubica and the sport, all the best to his new ventures.

[thuGG]

There is no decision for now, he will continue rallying most probably (along with something else), so hold your horses.

[N.O.T]

There is no decision for now, he will continue rallying most probably (along with something else), so hold your horses.

yes but the focus will change so it will be safer for everyone involved.

[thuGG]

Please, don't hide your hatred behind safety BS.

[N.O.T]

Please, don't hide your hatred behind safety BS.

It is because i suffer on the inside :(:(

http://i.imgur.com/9lNvBiL.jpg

[makinen_fan]

Nice interview with Kris Meeke

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/rally/kris-meeke-on-wales-rally-gb/

[Jeppe]

Mikko Hirvonen will make comeback to WRC Rally Car in Rally Lanzarote 2015. Nice!!!

http://ewrc-results.com/startlist.php?e=22862&t=Rally-Isla-de-Lanzarote-2015

[Andre Oliveira]

Yes, The spannish Mini

[EstWRC]

anybody here having access to this magazine? http://www.motorsport-news.co.uk ....i remember that somebody here has that magazine, im interested in this part Motorsport News ‏@MNRally 1h1 hour ago
Also included: Evans and Tanak facing fight for @MSportLtd future, plus Latvala uses Quattro to warm up for @WalesRallyGB
0 retweets 1 favorite


thank you

[Simmi]

anybody here having access to this magazine? http://www.motorsport-news.co.uk ....i remember that somebody here has that magazine, im interested in this part Motorsport News ‏@MNRally 1h1 hour ago
Also included: Evans and Tanak facing fight for @MSportLtd future, plus Latvala uses Quattro to warm up for @WalesRallyGB

Yeah sure I just read this article now. Wilson basically said that they have no one signed yet for next year and that he thinks that there's potential for other drivers to come onto the market. So he is choosing to wait and he said he will speak to both Tanak and Evans about their futures after Rally GB. He called it a harsh reality of rallying but intimated that they are fighting for their futures.

Interestingly in a column which accompanied the piece - David Evans wrote the exact phrase I used on this forum last year when M-Sport confirmed Tanak for 2015.

"Insanity is doing the same thing twice and expecting a different outcome."


Latvala is doing the Lausitz Rally driving his Quattro. He said that because VW are not doing a gravel test before Wales he wants to get the feeling of gravel driving back before he heads there.

[EightGear]

I'm curious to know who Wilson is talking about 'potential for other drivers to come onto the market' beacause I'm not seeing any.

[RS]

I'm curious to know who Wilson is talking about 'potential for other drivers to come onto the market' beacause I'm not seeing any.

Meeke, Ostberg maybe?

[AL14]

I'm curious to know who Wilson is talking about 'potential for other drivers to come onto the market' beacause I'm not seeing any.

With "potential" he does not mean driving skills but the money on their pocket. ;)

[EightGear]

Meeke, Ostberg maybe?

That might be, yes. But then I don't see anyone capable of replacing one of them at Citroen.

Maybe Breen will put his dad's money somewhere else instead of Peugeot next year?

[christy but]

id be thinking breen aswell

[WUff1]

Don´t think Breen will do ERC again next year, too.

[Rallyper]

Meeke, Ostberg maybe?

For sure no. They already reached their potential.
I´m optimistic and would like to say there are few drivers with a potential except from Emil Bergkvist atm. Yeah, I know I´m swedish. And yes. He hasn´t showed anything yet in a 4WD.
But still. If he succeeds in RIV things might be temptating for MW to take him under his arms and swop Evans.

[pantealex]

For sure no. They already reached their potential.
I´m optimistic and would like to say there are few drivers with a potential except from Emil Bergkvist atm. Yeah, I know I´m swedish. And yes. He hasn´t showed anything yet in a 4WD.
But still. If he succeeds in RIV things might be temptating for MW to take him under his arms and swop Evans.

if VW is ready to take Lappi, why not faster Tidemand to M-Sport...

[Mirek]

if VW is ready to take Lappi, why not faster Tidemand to M-Sport...

Speedwise only Lappi was everywhere faster than Tidemand except Catalunya.

[EstWRC]

Yeah sure I just read this article now. Wilson basically said that they have no one signed yet for next year and that he thinks that there's potential for other drivers to come onto the market. So he is choosing to wait and he said he will speak to both Tanak and Evans about their futures after Rally GB. He called it a harsh reality of rallying but intimated that they are fighting for their futures.

Interestingly in a column which accompanied the piece - David Evans wrote the exact phrase I used on this forum last year when M-Sport confirmed Tanak for 2015.

"Insanity is doing the same thing twice and expecting a different outcome."


Latvala is doing the Lausitz Rally driving his Quattro. He said that because VW are not doing a gravel test before Wales he wants to get the feeling of gravel driving back before he heads there.

thank you! im also curious who Wilson sees as a potential driver instead of Tänak and Evans, im sure he is just bluffing.

Tänak still has a lot of potential, not so sure about Evans.

[Rallyper]

For sure Tanak will stay at MSport. EVerything else would be maniacs.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tanak sounds concerned for his 2016 seat... http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/october/tanak-future/page/2941--12-12-.html

[b3637853]

For sure if Malcolm wants results he needs money to pay for good and experienced driver. Let's say Evans is on the way out. Who is available on the market to jump in and fight for podiums? For now only Meeke and Ostberg haven't got any contracts for 2016, maybe Sordo as well. I would count Kubica. Someone mentioned Lappi, Tidemand and Breen before, but aren't they similar cases as Evans and Tanak? They need at least 2 years to gain events experience before fighting for results. On the other hand we have experienced drivers but I doubt Wilson will take under consideration Atkinson, Hanninen or Bouffier .

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121549 Marcus Gronholm tested the Polo R WRC 2017 last week on Tarmac.

[EstWRC]

Tanak sounds concerned for his 2016 seat... http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/october/tanak-future/page/2941--12-12-.html


yeah i just read it, doesnt sound good at all :( ...He has the speed to take it to the VW's but he just needs the experience but how can you get it if you are sacked and then taken back again and you start from scratch again?

[Grundo Farb]

For sure if Malcolm wants results he needs money to pay for good and experienced driver. Let's say Evans is on the way out. Who is available on the market to jump in and fight for podiums? For now only Meeke and Ostberg haven't got any contracts for 2016, maybe Sordo as well. I would count Kubica. Someone mentioned Lappi, Tidemand and Breen before, but aren't they similar cases as Evans and Tanak? They need at least 2 years to gain events experience before fighting for results. On the other hand we have experienced drivers but I doubt Wilson will take under consideration Atkinson, Hanninen or Bouffier .

Neuville. Potential for someone to come on the market...

[itix]

Tidemand is more consistent than Lappi... dunno if he'll be another Østberg and be consistent but hit a peak somewhere. I hope not! I have little faith in Lappi, too inconsistent and crashes way too often. Breen has hit his roof, I am sure. Quentin Gilbert is probably too inexperienced to join now but he is looking good speed wise (maybe needs more gravel experience though).

Bergkvist is also too inexperienced to do anything in 4wd car next season. Sure he is showing good pace in Valais but I doubt he'd do any top level manuf. driving before 2017 or -18.

Kubica is for me a serious option for a manufacturer in 2016. He is still growing and getting better. Just a bit heavy on the car rebuild budget maybe but hopefully that is changing (and he is crashing less these days).

[skarderud]

A good driver with lots of experience with wrc and 4wd is Eyvind Brynhildsen.
Just a couple og outings in a wrc-car, but plenty in a fiesta rrc and evo9. 48 starts in wrc2 i think.
He was remarkable faster than Anders grøndal and frank Tore Larsen in this years National championship in Norway.

He will to a wrc2 campain next season in an R5.

He will do Wales in an fabia R5, so there we can see his standard.

[leighton323]

Kubica is for me a serious option for a manufacturer in 2016. He is still growing and getting better. Just a bit heavy on the car rebuild budget maybe but hopefully that is changing (and he is crashing less these days).

Kubica has scored 8 points this season.
That is less than or on par with Khalid Al Qassimi, Juho Hanninen (who has had one rally) and Yuriy Protasov.
And you expect a team manager to rationally believe that Kubica is deserving of a Manufacturer seat.

Just sit down and think about it.
I'm not saying Kubica is slow, i'm just saying think about it.

[itix]

The last two rallies he has mostly been unlucky! I agree with you that points wise it doesn't look and I understand that a boss with fact sheets in his hands wouldn't sign kubica but if you look at what he has actually done, disregarding the middle of the season where he was also slow.

He has won stages on snow, tarmac, gravel, mixed condition etc etc this year. If you go by stage victories he has probably beaten a lot of the WRC field this year.

[traxx]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121549 Marcus Gronholm tested the Polo R WRC 2017 last week on Tarmac.

"Big wing" ? Was it really a new one ? I can't see the difference with the wing they used today, anyone knows what is the new size for 2017 vs actual size ?

[Mirek]

The last two rallies he has mostly been unlucky! I agree with you that points wise it doesn't look and I understand that a boss with fact sheets in his hands wouldn't sign kubica but if you look at what he has actually done, disregarding the middle of the season where he was also slow.
.

He has been unlucky for several years...

[Franky]

He has won stages on snow, tarmac, gravel, mixed condition etc etc this year. If you go by stage victories he has probably beaten a lot of the WRC field this year.

WRC isn't rallysprint.

[AndyRAC]

WRC isn't rallysprint.

Not yet...... ;)

[Andre Oliveira]

Compared with old times, yes! Rallysprint in times and timetable

[itix]

He has been unlucky for several years...
Not sure if this was ironic or not but sure... I agree, he hasn't really been the best in the world to keep it on the road and he has done silly mistakes but he is continously improving regarding consistency.

He also has a small budget and a handicap to work around so I'm at least impressed... He isn't worse this year than Tänak was in his first year or Novikov was when he drove and both of them got a manufacturers seat (and he has less experience than both of those two)

[AL14]

Not sure if this was ironic or not but sure... I agree, he hasn't really been the best in the world to keep it on the road and he has done silly mistakes but he is continously improving regarding consistency.

He also has a small budget and a handicap to work around so I'm at least impressed... He isn't worse this year than Tänak was in his first year or Novikov was when he drove and both of them got a manufacturers seat (and he has less experience than both of those two)

You mean he is not crashing two times per rally but only one now?

Don't want to sound arrogant, I respect what you say of course, but I think it's time to give up on Kubica. He can be fast, he can have not too much experience (but not too less neither, now) but it is clear he can't handle a whole rally. He had almost 25 starts and collects less points than Al Qassimi. How much time should we keep saying "he's fast, it's Pirelli, it's his hand, it's Ford, it's the team, he's unlucky" ignoring he just had a wrong approach to the sport?

My view remain the same: if he had spent these two years to learn, now he could have been in a very different position. Instead he wanted to fight at the top since his very first WRC rally, and this is the result.

[thuGG]

You mean he is not crashing two times per rally but only one now?


Seriously, he didn't crash in: Sweden, Portugal, Poland, France, Spain. Stop this BS that he crashes all the time everywhere.

[AL14]

Seriously, he didn't crash in: Sweden, Portugal, Poland, France, Spain. Stop this BS that he crashes all the time everywhere.

If they are not crash it's something else like punctures or similar. In fact he collect a few points in those rallyes where he didn't crash. That's why I would not call it an improvement in consistency . Sometimes it's the car's fault, yes, but it can't be everytime something else.

[dimviii]

Gary Boyd ‏@KiwiWRCfan

Rally Trivia
@MadsOstberg has scored #WRC points on all 11 #WRC events he has started in 2015.
Mads has not used Rally 2 rules in 2015

[christy but]

if Robert stick with the wrc I think he will win rallys.

[N.O.T]

if Robert stick with the wrc I think he will win rallys.

why you put limits to your imagination ? why not championships ?

[Eli]

Gary Boyd ‏@KiwiWRCfan

Rally Trivia
@MadsOstberg has scored #WRC points on all 11 #WRC events he has started in 2015.
Mads has not used Rally 2 rules in 2015
that's just jinxing it...and now we're comming to the last round in Wales...

[itix]

Seriously, he didn't crash in: Sweden, Portugal, Poland, France, Spain. Stop this BS that he crashes all the time everywhere.
He kind of does... I see why people say he crashes a lot because he really does.

I have more than one time put my head in my palms and went "arrrggh Robert, again?".
Sometimes it is many times per rally as well.

I do get what AL14 says... But i still see potential in Robert.

Also coming from F1 he has defintely done a better job than Räikkönen who's efforts were quite frankly pathetic.

[tomhlord]

You mean he is not crashing two times per rally but only one now?

Don't want to sound arrogant, I respect what you say of course, but I think it's time to give up on Kubica. He can be fast, he can have not too much experience (but not too less neither, now) but it is clear he can't handle a whole rally. He had almost 25 starts and collects less points than Al Qassimi. How much time should we keep saying "he's fast, it's Pirelli, it's his hand, it's Ford, it's the team, he's unlucky" ignoring he just had a wrong approach to the sport?

My view remain the same: if he had spent these two years to learn, now he could have been in a very different position. Instead he wanted to fight at the top since his very first WRC rally, and this is the result.
He drives better with one arm than some with two, that I am certain.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Rally Power]

Kubica's continuing to show a true passion over rallysport, and it's fair to say that this year he has improved a lot. He's a ultra competitive guy that only knows to drive at maximum attack mode, but it's very difficult to go flat out all the time when you're a privateer (even having a special treatment). It'd be great to see him getting a factory seat and a proper drive improving program (with the help of a former wrc champ), in order to put some consistency over his undisputed speed. It'll be a waste, for RK and for WRC, to see him in another non works attempt.

[leighton323]

Seriously, he didn't crash in: Sweden, Portugal, Poland, France, Spain. Stop this BS that he crashes all the time everywhere.

Portugal he had an incident on SS4
Poland had an incident on SS5
Spain had an incident SS4, SS5, SS14 and SS20

Not counting in France were he got a puncture from a cut.

One rally he has been mistake free in Sweden, where even there he had a couple of spins.

So would you say he is unlucky for these 'incidents' where he went off, or hit something, or is he lucky that these incidents didn't cause permanent retirement?

I am a fan of Kubica, and we all acknowledge the skill Kubica has. No one is doubting him as a fast rally driver.

But these are the facts. You can check it if you want and prove me wrong.

[Mariusz]

Incidents are not crashes. Everybody has incidents, the less and smaller the better of course, but you only don't have incidents when you don't drive.
I checked Portugal and Poland and there was nothing in Poland on SS5.

[leighton323]

Incidents are not crashes. Everybody has incidents, the less and smaller the better of course, but you only don't have incidents when you don't drive.
I checked Portugal and Poland and there was nothing in Poland on SS5.

SS4 Portugal - "We have damage, we have a puncture. It's gone flat. We had a small off. No idea where it happened."
SS5 Poland - Yes I got that wrong, I meant SS12 - "A small off in one corner, onto the grass, that cost us a second."
The Poland one I would agree though, that wan't really much

But two rallies out the 2015 Season...

[Eli]

http://www.maxrally.com/2015/10/31/its-new-zealand-versus-australia perhaps it's know already but for the time being it seems like we won't see Rally New-Zealand until at least 2018

[thuGG]

Portugal he had an incident on SS4
Poland had an incident on SS5
Spain had an incident SS4, SS5, SS14 and SS20

Not counting in France were he got a puncture from a cut.

One rally he has been mistake free in Sweden, where even there he had a couple of spins.

So would you say he is unlucky for these 'incidents' where he went off, or hit something, or is he lucky that these incidents didn't cause permanent retirement?

I am a fan of Kubica, and we all acknowledge the skill Kubica has. No one is doubting him as a fast rally driver.

But these are the facts. You can check it if you want and prove me wrong.

I was talking about crashes, everyone has incidents.

Wysane z mojego SM-G920F przy uyciu Tapatalka

[denkimi]

Seriously, he didn't crash in: Sweden, Portugal, Poland, France, Spain. Stop this BS that he crashes all the time everywhere.
then why does he only has 8 points in 12 rally's?
perhaps he doesn't always bins it completely, but he makes serious mistakes everytime.

the only rally that can be called good for him, was poland. when he only lost 2 minutes to ogier.



Also coming from F1 he has defintely done a better job than Räikkönen who's efforts were quite frankly pathetic.
raikkonen did a lot better than kubica. he didn't win stages, but he managed to get results.
kubica had done 39 rally's before he shifted to a full wrc season, raikkonen had done 4.

raikkonen: 59 points in 21 wrc rally's
kubica: 22 points in 24 wrc rally's
http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=6450&sct=1
http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=8567&sct=1

yet kubica scored 18 points in 7 rally's in wrc2, so it seems he knows how to drive fast.

[tomhlord]

It depends what you define 'better' as. Driving quickly or driving slower and getting to the end.

Again, I point to Robert's disability, I think what he does is amazing regardless of comparisons to other drivers.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[denkimi]

It depends what you define 'better' as. Driving quickly or driving slower and getting to the end.

Again, I point to Robert's disability, I think what he does is amazing regardless of comparisons to other drivers.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
the challenge in racing is driving to the end as fast as you can. there's no point in driving faster if that means you can't make it to the end.

and i haven't yet seen any incident on video that can be directly related to his disability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6nfUTNZHvs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8_URQNOEqA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDfcJ7eeiNg
https://youtu.be/l76MrnB7auc?t=3m41s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGig4q0ICTM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VCfvFZGwU8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH8a0fNje2Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9TA55FiP0o
https://youtu.be/BO2tcBfPgL8?t=2m27s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvSFXErx448
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ese72keL21o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k0kAvu_rKE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVY8HlrHq2A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBAbdsZFEc4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wysDkHFp6JE

most of the times he just brakes too late or goes too fast in a corner. the rest of his accidents are mostly because of a wrong line.

[peter_85]

then why does he only has 8 points in 12 rally's?
Don't you realize that most of his problems during this season are due to running own team?

[N.O.T]

Don't you realize that most of his problems during this season are due to running own team?

well last year he rented a car and was useless as well... in the last 100 years rallying works like that, you either rent a car, have your own team or you find a sugar daddy to pay for you... then if you are worthy you get a chance to drive a works car and if you are good you get the chance to become a millionaire by driving...

Rallying is no different to any other profession if you look the big picture.

Kubica is fast of course, nobody denies that but he is not good enough to be in the sport at its highest level no matter how hard his fans cry...

[Mariusz]

most of the times he just brakes too late or goes too fast in a corner. the rest of his accidents are mostly because of a wrong line.
Yeah, that's the reasons of majority of all rally crashes, not only Kubica's. We all know he makes mistakes, so what is the point in this? And now please prepare a similar compilation of Latvala, Neuville, Prokop or Ostberg crashes. You know, actually, you pick any wrc driver and have fun.

[Simmi]

the challenge in racing is driving to the end as fast as you can. there's no point in driving faster if that means you can't make it to the end.

and i haven't yet seen any incident on video that can be directly related to his disability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6nfUTNZHvs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8_URQNOEqA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDfcJ7eeiNg
https://youtu.be/l76MrnB7auc?t=3m41s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGig4q0ICTM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VCfvFZGwU8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH8a0fNje2Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9TA55FiP0o
https://youtu.be/BO2tcBfPgL8?t=2m27s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvSFXErx448
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ese72keL21o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k0kAvu_rKE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVY8HlrHq2A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBAbdsZFEc4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wysDkHFp6JE

most of the times he just brakes too late or goes too fast in a corner. the rest of his accidents are mostly because of a wrong line.

While I don't agree Kimi did a better job than Kubica - that is an impressive collection of carnage! He's the definition of 'on the limit'.

[jacko]

Rallying is no different to any other profession if you look the big picture.
Kubica is fast of course, nobody denies that but he is not good enough to be in the sport at its highest level no matter how hard his fans cry...

If you look at the big picture you need drivers that are filling the field. Like in every footballeague you have clubs that would never become champion but offcorse the league in every country needs it's numbers. In your world only Ogier and by God's gift Latvala deserves a place in the highest world of rallying but that isn't realistic you blind fool.
And we have to thank Rk for his commitment and spectacular driving. In the beginning i didn't like him, just a second Raikkonen i thought but how wrong was i... Seen RK on gravel and tarmac live, looking at his performance on stages compare the others, watching him on TV: damn what a fantastic driver and what must the whole WRC really happy with a driver like him involved in the highest level of rally.
And i think there are really not many, i can't even name 3 drivers right now, that could be deliver a better performance and/or speedwise than Kubica. Like so many times: how more people think the same about something how harder you choose the opposite. Sad isn't it...

[danon]

http://s5.postimg.org/uq660wc7b/rb2.jpg

[EightGear]

Nice effort finding all those videos, I thought it was funny.

[AL14]

Yeah, that's the reasons of majority of all rally crashes, not only Kubica's

Yes but the point is Kubica's is having problems everytime, every rally, not sometimes like the drivers you mentioned. He had also M-Sport behind him in 2014 and screwed it up, now he has his own team but it's not good that either... I wonder what should be ok then.


And we have to thank Rk for his commitment and spectacular driving. In the beginning i didn't like him, just a second Raikkonen i thought but how wrong was i... Seen RK on gravel and tarmac live, looking at his performance on stages compare the others, watching him on TV: damn what a fantastic driver and what must the whole WRC really happy with a driver like him involved in the highest level of rally.

I partly agree with you. His commitment, his story, his skills are a value for WRC, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't build his path in the WRC in a completely wrong way. As it has been said billion of times, a rally doesn't finish at the end of the first stage or the first morning. You can be fast as much as you want but if you are not able to finish it keeping that speed without problems (unless you go slow like Prokop) than that speed has no sense, it doesn't count and at the end we can fairly say that it doesn't exist. It's good for spectators on that single stage, ok, but you don't win the game if you cheer the fans for one stage, you win it on sunday and he has always been far from it.

[Mariusz]

Yes but the point is Kubica's is having problems everytime, every rally, not sometimes like the drivers you mentioned. He had also M-Sport behind him in 2014 and screwed it up, now he has his own team but it's not good that either... I wonder what should be ok then.
At the beginning of his rally career he said that this is his way to learn where the limits are and he hadn't seen any reason to drive slow just to get points because it would be waste of time. And he actually didn't need points in last 2 years because he was not in a factory team. He needed points in WRC2 in 2013 and he delivered. But in ERC he was again driving very fast and making more mistakes as this was his was of learning. Before every rally he says he wants to drive in a good rhytm and without mistakes. And the pace is getting better and better, but mistakes are still there. I hope at some point he will stop increasing the pace and then there will be less mistakes.

[AL14]

At the beginning of his rally career he said that this is his way to learn where the limits are and he hadn't seen any reason to drive slow just to get points because it would be waste of time. And he actually didn't need points in last 2 years because he was not in a factory team. He needed points in WRC2 in 2013 and he delivered. But in ERC he was again driving very fast and making more mistakes as this was his was of learning. Before every rally he says he wants to drive in a good rhytm and without mistakes. And the pace is getting better and better, but mistakes are still there. I hope at some point he will stop increasing the pace and then there will be less mistakes.

That is where he has made his bigger mistake in my opinion. Thinking that way. I've always believed in his potential but he should have used these 2 years in WRC to learn, make experience, and managing his pushing moments. A mid-long term plan. I'm pretty sure that now, with Matton and Wilson desperatly looking for new drivers he could have had his chance. It's sad because unlike Raikkonen or other privateers he had hopes and real chances due to his undeniable talent.

[SubaruNorway]

Nice effort finding all those videos, I thought it was funny.

He missed an angle though :p
https://youtu.be/7DhuY3F3qKE?t=54s

[stefanvv]

That is where he has made his bigger mistake in my opinion. Thinking that way. I've always believed in his potential but he should have used these 2 years in WRC to learn, make experience, and managing his pushing moments.

He is learning, just not as fast he drives. When he wants to deliver points by driving slow, he does. Then he increases the speed again and makes again mistakes. I see some progress in his consistency, but he really need to polish his limits sometimes as we had seen in Catalunya, when he crashes his lines are wrong. Factory drive is far away atm, but I wish him good luck anyway if he stays in rallying.

[Mariusz]

That is where he has made his bigger mistake in my opinion. Thinking that way. I've always believed in his potential but he should have used these 2 years in WRC to learn, make experience, and managing his pushing moments. A mid-long term plan. I'm pretty sure that now, with Matton and Wilson desperatly looking for new drivers he could have had his chance. It's sad because unlike Raikkonen or other privateers he had hopes and real chances due to his undeniable talent.
Maybe it was a mistake, maybe not. The opposite is Evans' way as they started driving in WRC around the same time. And for now Evans looks to be in a better position.

[AL14]

Maybe it was a mistake, maybe not. The opposite is Evans' way as they started driving in WRC around the same time. And for now Evans looks to be in a better position.

Yeah, Evans has been somehow the opposite, nice comparison. I think maybe it was too much opposite. :) Or maybe Evans is just too slow for WRC, and every approach could have brought him where he is now. That's not the case of Kubica in my opinion.

[rallyace]

I'd like to see Kubica joining M-Sport for 2016. And before everyone dismisses the idea altogether because of its improbability, let's take a look at why it actually might just make sense for both Kubica and M-Sport.

It's no secret that Wilson is not happy with the overall performance of Evans and Tänak. It's not unlikely to see one (or perhaps both of them) not driving for M-Sport next year. With the drivers' market being pretty much set in stone (VW have all of their drivers signed, same with Hyundai, Citroën likely keeping at least Meeke), it's not a long list of names that Wilson can choose from. Most contenders in WRC2 have either signed for manufacturers such as VW and Toyota, others simply don't have enough upside to warrant a seat at the sport's highest level.

Enter Kubica. Yes, he's very prone to mistakes, which is something that most people would use as an excuse to overlook his talent altogether. However, it's easier (and more likely) to make a fast driver consistent than turning a consistent driver into a fast one. Evans being the opposite of Kubica has been mentioned previously in this thread, and I believe it is an excellent point. Using the two here, which is more likely -- turning Evans into someone who is consistently setting fastest stage times and challenging for rally wins, or helping Kubica overcome his troubles staying on the road?

Natural talent is hard to come by, but Kubica seems to possess just that. And with the help of a WRC manufacturer he could get the support needed to gain consistency. It's not just about not having to pay for the car and staff yourself, it's also about Kubica getting Wilson & Co. as trusted and experienced partners who could help him in the areas where he lacks certain things. Not being "on your own" could make a massive difference.

Simply being able to get into a car that is paid for, not having to find sponsorships all by yourself and worrying about having to use refurbished rims (see the Corsica thread where this was discussed) could help him tremendously. He would focus on simply driving and nothing else.

Kubica would be a gamble for M-Sport. A big one at that. But really, with no other drivers available (and even if Østberg becomes available I wouldn't pick him) isn't Kubica your best option?

Imagine Kubica being consistent in the WRC and how much damage he could do to his opponents. The skill and raw talent is certainly there, not to mention that M-Sport would have a likable and popular character driving their Fiesta, which would boost their image. Worst case scenario, M-Sport finish last in the manufacturers' championship, which is exactly where they are now with Evans/Tänak anyways. Best case scenario? Kubica finds consistency. And then things could get really interesting in the WRC...

So really, what do they have to lose?

[N.O.T]

Imagine Kubica being consistent in the WRC

http://i.imgur.com/XcqSTh5.gif

[rallyace]

Oh, N.O.T... no faith in Kubica whatsoever? Not even a little? :p

[N.O.T]

Oh, N.O.T... no faith in Kubica whatsoever? Not even a little? :p

No he is hopeless at the top of the sport, he would be perfect addition to the ERC though.

[dodge33cymru]

No he is hopeless at the top of the sport, he would be perfect addition to the ERC though.
Whilst I suspect you mean that sarcastically, I think that would be a great idea of him: more tarmac events, slightly slower and at a level he is arguably proven at - would be a realistic goal and be the right place for him to improve rallying.

With the M-Sport seat, Kubica's main backer is Lotos and not sure if they'd be able to sponsor alongside Castrol on the Fords. And, if not, I'm sure Tanak is bringing more money through his mother sponsors. And you couldn't have both of them as the repair bills would be unfathomable.

[danon]

RK is beating the competition with one hand tied behind back.
I am curious to see the top dogs competing against him with one hand tied behind their back.

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/12182720_10153384854568952_1729145180388644203_o.j pg

[N.O.T]

RK is beating the competition with one hand tied behind back.
I am curious to see the top dogs competing against him with one hand tied behind their back.


well you see reality works differently... that is why we have special olympics.

[leighton323]

RK is beating the competition with one hand tied behind back.
I am curious to see the top dogs competing against him with one hand tied behind their back.

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/12182720_10153384854568952_1729145180388644203_o.j pg
That is literally stupid. Think that one through again. Kubica has an impairment, it's not chopped off for God's Sake

[danon]

well you see reality works differently... that is why we have special olympics.

Who has it - does it!

Edit: NO LIMITS - IMPOSSIBLE IS JUST A WORD -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs7Uyk4R0vw

[danon]

That is literally stupid. Think that one through again. Kubica has an impairment, it's not chopped off for God's Sake

It was a metaphor - with a hand tied behind back (obstacle).

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Who has it - does it!

Edit: NO LIMITS - IMPOSSIBLE IS JUST A WORD -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs7Uyk4R0vw
At least Zanardi was retired due to mechanical problem.

[denkimi]

Don't you realize that most of his problems during this season are due to running own team?
most of his problems are due to lack of budget, and hitting too much stuff. probably are those 2 problems connected.


Yeah, that's the reasons of majority of all rally crashes, not only Kubica's. We all know he makes mistakes, so what is the point in this? And now please prepare a similar compilation of Latvala, Neuville, Prokop or Ostberg crashes. You know, actually, you pick any wrc driver and have fun.
the point is that it is not because of his disability that he crashes so often. his car control is fine.

[N.O.T]

his car control is fine.


LOLz son...

[OldF]

Lot of news & rumours on this thread lately.:o Btw, there’s a thread for Kubica.