[WRC] News & rumours (part III) [Archive] - Page 6

Mintexmemory

2nd October 2014, 14:54

Ott is very fast without any doubt, but reallisticly I can't believe he can come in GB and with his very limited time in the car be as competitive as the other top guys. And especially with the DMAK's against Michelin's.
My hint about top spot in RGB is Kris Meeke as he has local knowledge and already has experience with the car.

I'd love you to be right about this but realistically with the championship won by then Ogier and Latvala will be going so hard at each other that the rest won't see them until the champagne is spraying!

noel157

7th October 2014, 13:32

http://cdn.images.autosport.com/editorial/1412678986.jpg

Prodrive building things without factory support again. Not sure what market they are aiming for, maybe just clubmans etc. South Africa?
Good I suppose they are still doing something in rallying:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116201

stefanvv

7th October 2014, 13:42

Interesting, 2l Golf with WRC specs, hmm.

PLuto

7th October 2014, 14:23

I am not happy with this work. Instead of doing regular rally cars for national and international championships, they are wasting time and money for "hybrids"...

makinen_fan

7th October 2014, 15:20

What's the point of this :confused: :confused: Does not make any sense to me

AndyRAC

7th October 2014, 15:42

Seems a private project, like the TMR GT-86 4WD for Akio Toyoda. I would like to think that Prodrive would be investigating the R-GT Cup – an Aston-Martin Vantage V8 GT3 would be most welcome.

Jack4688`

7th October 2014, 17:44

Seems interesting, but I won't pass any judgement until we know what the end game is.

Mintexmemory

7th October 2014, 17:55

Seems a private project, like the TMR GT-86 4WD for Akio Toyoda. I would like to think that Prodrive would be investigating the R-GT Cup – an Aston-Martin Vantage V8 GT3 would be most welcome.
IIRC Prodrive only had 2 Vantage examples finished of the projected 4 when they folded the project, the one example I've seen at Brands and Goodwood just looks too heavy and unwieldy to seriously challenge a 997 or Nissan

jbmarcus21

7th October 2014, 21:40

Petter Solberg back to rallying with Phil Mills at Belgium Rally Condroz 2014 http://bit.ly/1uXBgtC

Zeakiwi

7th October 2014, 21:47

What's the point of this :confused: :confused: Does not make any sense to me
Prodrive look like they are weary of the FIA homologation process.
The Prodrive VW is probably something similar to the Ken Block HFHV Fiesta/ Dytko VW, Mitsi, Peugeot
http://youtu.be/yDkEbo324Dk
transverse 2 litre turbocharged engine with the 'big mumbo' sadev transverse transmission. Only one engine/ transmission for between 300hp for rally to 600hp for rallycross
What countries can run vehicles like this - US, Spain, Poland ... NZ, probably Australia, Barbados. UK - club events?
Does Tanner Foust want to make Gymkhana videos and do the Rally America series or the Australians who have the rally G2 VW Polos at present ?

Eli

7th October 2014, 22:57

Does this mean the WRC will go back to 2 Litres cars a.k.a. focus,i30,C4,impreza,golf,???

focus206

7th October 2014, 23:05

Does this mean the WRC will go back to 2 Litres cars a.k.a. focus,i30,C4,impreza,golf,???

Of course not, just because Prodrive privately built a car like that?

EightGear

7th October 2014, 23:27

Does this mean the WRC will go back to 2 Litres cars a.k.a. focus,i30,C4,impreza,golf,???
Why would you even begin to think something like that?

N.O.T

7th October 2014, 23:38

Lol

sollitt

8th October 2014, 00:46

I am not happy with this work. Instead of doing regular rally cars for national and international championships, they are wasting time and money for "hybrids"...What on earth does it have to do with you? I guess when you are on the board of Prodrive you can determine where their income comes from.
The article states that the cars are for "a bespoke market". Presumably the market already exists and they are merely providing a product for it. Seems like what you in business?

GigiGalliNo1

8th October 2014, 04:56

The Golf Rally car built by Prodrive are used in the Chinese Rally Championships... this is merely an updated Body Shell as the new Golf has been updated.... !!

FACT

Zeakiwi

8th October 2014, 06:53

sindroms

8th October 2014, 09:59

Petter Solberg RX ‏@Petter_Solberg
11 years after our @OfficialWRC title, Phil Mills comes out of retirement to join me in the Rallye Condroz 1-2 Nov!

leighton323

8th October 2014, 11:13

Hyundai already testing their new WRC car based on the new i20.

https://www.facebook.com/HyundaiWRC/photos/a.502112209854667.1073741832.501750213224200/779649428767609/?type=1&theater

vino_93

8th October 2014, 12:00

Looks like VW China need to do a Motorsport Association type driver talent search.
http://www.ewrc-results.com/final.php?e=6642 Have the results been better this year.
Didn't Prodrive close their China office a few years ago? An updated body shell usually has a few enhancements if Prodrive is involved.

VW car were S5 last year, so only big 2WD cars ...
This year they run a S6 (cars with 1.6T engine, and for S2000 too) : http://www.ewrc-results.com/final.php?e=19292&t=Beijing-Huairou-Rally-2014

Jack4688`

8th October 2014, 18:34

The Golf Rally car built by Prodrive are used in the Chinese Rally Championships... this is merely an updated Body Shell as the new Golf has been updated.... !!

FACT

Pictures or didn't happen

Zeakiwi

8th October 2014, 22:11

Atko appears to be fairly low key about his Chinese drives - no mention on his online places.
Chinenglish interview 2014 - prodrive mechanic involved.
Reporter: One last question asked Dean, can you tell us about this station Atkinson racing competition, your goal is a championship yet?

Chen Dean: Q is very good, 4WD is our team is looking forward to one thing, not only for myself, including our car manufacturers, in fact, we can see that we invited Chinese Atkinson is currently the biggest drivers license, active WRC drivers from last year and we signed a contract to China while running CRC game. use his main purpose is to improve our technology these riders, including mechanic. different this station, this station we will use our very expect high seven racing, WRC Atkinson also used his wife's pilot, he is very careful to use the car, and asked me who are engaged in repair, then we are talking about so and so, he felt great. this team, including the entire weight very satisfied, so I get the audience to believe the results is our ultimate goal, of course, we also paid a lot, including the preparation of preliminary, including the extent of persistent rally, we look forward to is this.

Reporter: What did you just say the name of the service, he is your nationality?

Chen Dean: often with tension, including the F1 reporter should have heard, he is a British Prodrive, he has three years of racing experience, but he is also very familiar with Atkinson and he has appeared on the WRC arena, including. Aston Martin sports car with super teams, BMW's cooperation, including the supply of spare parts for F1 do something now we get the support of manufacturers, they are optimistic about the development of Automobile Sports of China, so we almost hit it off and we are very happy that he soon bring us to improve the team as a whole, so even if we can not get a championship this station, I believe in the future there will be a very good development, thank you.

2013 pic http://www.wantinews.com/news-4959317-Chen-Dean-Atkinson-Field-study-two-drive-Volkswagen-team-leader.html
What is the FAW-VW 4wd ? - a left over mini wrc gearbox/ trans with a reconditioned skoda s2000 engine?

OnlyRally

8th October 2014, 22:28

http://www.maxrally.com/2014/10/08/the-new-world-orders-coming-early shootout timing format can already be tested on the last day of rally gb 2014

AndyRAC

9th October 2014, 00:09

No thanks - RallyGB organisers should tell them were to go, not try and help this 'Mickey Mouse' idea.

litifeta

9th October 2014, 11:49

Atko appears to be fairly low key about his Chinese drives - no mention on his online places.

Atko is apparently not well

Doon

9th October 2014, 12:59

http://www.maxrally.com/2014/10/08/the-new-world-orders-coming-early shootout timing format can already be tested on the last day of rally gb 2014

Looks like an extra item to pack for Rally GB then.......a calculator.

Mintexmemory

9th October 2014, 14:26

Looks like an extra item to pack for Rally GB then.......a calculator.
Just a large placard saying 'Down with this sort of thing' I've still got my 'sick dogs' t-shirt from last year! Of course we must keep up the pressure on FIA and VW - if anyone hasn't e-mailed them yet please do so.

dodge33cymru

9th October 2014, 14:30

I'm sure they'll make it much easier next year, when they turn the final stage into a rallycross at Anglesey circuit.

AndyRAC

9th October 2014, 17:17

Just a large placard saying 'Down with this sort of thing' I've still got my 'sick dogs' t-shirt from last year! Of course we must keep up the pressure on FIA and VW - if anyone hasn't e-mailed them yet please do so.

Maybe pressure on the RallyGB organisers for even contemplating helping with this idea. Stop bending over for the FiA, or in this case the promoter and grow some backbone.

Andre Oliveira

9th October 2014, 19:11

Maybe one day appears one "IRC" organized to fans :) Simple and basic rally rules competing against this WRC.

Rally Power

9th October 2014, 19:14

According to Autosport.pt (Martin Holmes collaboration) next FIA WRC meeting will discuss new bonus point's scheme for 2016, but probably not the shootout.

Bonus would contemplate 7 first drivers in day 1 and 2 and 5 first drivers in day 3. Drivers under Rally 2 could get daily bonus points but only those making the whole rally get overall rally points. Day 3 only with 2 SS (same route done twice), last one in PS mode with TV coverage. RRC with 29mm restrictor.

Thank God, it's seems more a evolution than a "veritable revolution" (AS titles are always bombastic...)

http://autosport.pt/autentica-revolucao-no-wrc-em-discussao=f127313

Aid to google translation: section= special stage; DA(?)= promotor

N.O.T

9th October 2014, 19:23

The worrying thing is that the people at the top think that what is wrong with rallying is stupid little things like the points system...

Mirek

9th October 2014, 19:25

One does wonder how they come to decisions like that. I would say that the most difficult thing to understand for general public is overcomplicated rules in rallying so why not to make them even more complicated? Sounds like a good idea, sure... Don't get me wrong. It's still much better than the shootout but a kick in the ass is also better than in the balls if You know what I mean.

Bonus points are better than superally but giving them for only two stages? What is power stage if there are bonus points for legs? Another bonus points or just a big name for TV stage or what?

Smaller restrictor for RRC cars is an obvious way to finally kill them for the good of R5. RRC... another brilliant idea which didn't work and which was adopted against the common sense.

vino_93

9th October 2014, 20:11

So it looks like ERC rules. I think a good way to do with Superrally. Crews out of classification, but can still take point : so they have to restart. FIA maintain his goal for organizer (all top crews starting), and sport logic is quite correct.

Even if the simple way would be than if you retire, you are out of classification ... but why do you want to do simple when you can do complicated ?

Fide

9th October 2014, 20:34

PETTER SOLBERG: I read some articles about rumours regarding Petter's return to WRC with a Citroen factory car... Anybody have any news about it ?

N.O.T

9th October 2014, 21:30

No his future is with RX.

Coach 2

9th October 2014, 21:47

Rallye Condroz Citroën C4 WRC they say.

mousti

9th October 2014, 23:51

That's a one shot.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn Nexus 5 met Tapatalk

dimviii

10th October 2014, 11:39

Hyundai already testing their new WRC car based on the new i20.

https://www.facebook.com/HyundaiWRC/photos/a.502112209854667.1073741832.501750213224200/779649428767609/?type=1&theater

seems the new one will be much more beautiful than the current i20
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/p480x480/10704139_860373657330961_5532700911463252505_n.jpg ?oh=a944fcee312293cbd0cd20a01dfd4317&oe=54AD5448&__gda__=1422152470_9b24c368c7ae95ff499449d6e8bb039 9

Hyundai Motorsport Team Principal Michel Nandan commented: "We have worked on the development of our future WRC for some time now and we have managed to get the first prototype on its wheels month dernier.Les data and experience we accumulated during our first WRC season has contributed to our approach to this new car. It starts when we are absolutely sure that it will be ready to replace the current i20 WRC - we are not in a course.C'est a car completely different from the current model -the platform is different, the car is longer, lower and wider and it has a new engine and a new transmission.Bien course, we are only at the beginning of a long process and we will continue to work hard on developing and pursuing trials in the coming months and throughout 2015 "

http://globalpr.hyundai.com/prCenter/news/newsView.do?dID=3548

6789

10th October 2014, 12:09

The new i20 WRC is going to be a 5 door as well?

Mirek

10th October 2014, 12:29

The new stock i20 was already revealed.

http://img.auto.cz/news/img/galleries/2014-40/hyi222_542d25767da4d.jpg
http://img.auto.cz/news/img/galleries/2014-40/hyi240_542d2576a8db5.jpg

jbmarcus21

10th October 2014, 16:12

Rally Sweden 2015 road program http://planetemarcus.com/saison-wrc/wrc-rallye-suede-2015/

jd_89

10th October 2014, 16:45

stefanvv

10th October 2014, 16:56

There are some rumors here in Poland (well, spread mostly by fanatics), about Kubica's taking seat in Citroen WRT instead of Ostberg, next season. Though I find it completely out of logic (changing driver who takes 7th place now for a guy which is 15th, with very mediocre performance so far??), but I still would like to see your opinions on this matter.

Citroen is very different car, some drivers find it hard to adapt to. I can't tell how well Kubica would suit it, probably not for his driving style, probably he can adjust to it and make better results, only practice can tell.

EDIT: I know he began with DS3 RRC 2 years ago, but probably that is little different.

Juha_Koo

10th October 2014, 17:01

Rally Sweden 2015 road program http://planetemarcus.com/saison-wrc/wrc-rallye-suede-2015/

Quite boring like every year... I wonder why there's very little changes in RS route.

jd_89

10th October 2014, 18:32

Citroen is very different car, some drivers find it hard to adapt to. I can't tell how well Kubica would suit it, probably not for his driving style, probably he can adjust to it and make better results, only practice can tell.

EDIT: I know he began with DS3 RRC 2 years ago, but probably that is little different.

I agree, but don't forget he drove DS3 WRC already in GB last year, which was a total disaster for me (I know it was one off, but...). Also most fanatics (not to confuse with fans) blame M-Sport/Fiesta for his disappointing results. They claim Fiesta's a very fragile car and, in particular, if he had DS3 in Finland, the car would have gone through the roll on SS5 with all four wheels still intact. And that would also apply for Portugal and others.

I think the problem is not in the car. It even sounds funny for me, since Hirvonen is 4th and first non-VW driver in scoreboard.

dodge33cymru

10th October 2014, 19:04

The 'points at end of each day' idea is far better than a shootout. Agree that what is there now is better than both, but at least there's some semblance of needing to be quick throughout each day still with that rule.

Agree though, that the worry is that they think this is the problem, rather than it just being inaccessible and difficult to watch.

I know plenty of people interested in rallying and who go to events, but none watch WRC because the coverage is poor and the live stages are on channels that aren't shown.

skarderud

13th October 2014, 17:27

Eyvind brynhildsen has a new deal with betsafe, and is up for all round of the norwegian championchip, and some wrc apperances, first out is sweden in his fiesta rrc! Sweet:)

Barreis

13th October 2014, 22:44

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116343

skarderud

14th October 2014, 22:45

Strong rumours in Poland says that Kubica will leave M-Sport and next year he will drive in Citroen.

Robert Kubica is not happy about his cooperation with M-Sport and about the level of British team car`s preparations. Pole, who doesn`t have a good year behind the wheel of Ford Fiesta RS, may change his team next year.

"Polish, rally journalist Marcin Kwiatkowski said that it`s very probable that Kubica will be a Citroen`s driver. Pole may replace Mads Ostberg in French team."

Quite hillarious these "rumours", surely ostberg hasent had his year this season, but to change him with robert is just stupid.

EightGear

14th October 2014, 22:49

That would be ridiculous indeed. He can only drive a Citroen if he will pay for it I suppose, and not for the official team.

N.O.T

14th October 2014, 22:59

Kubica will have to pay to drive so he can have whatever car he wants...

15th October 2014, 09:59

Quite hillarious these "rumours", surely ostberg hasent had his year this season, but to change him with robert is just stupid.

Surely it must be PH Sport Citroën and Lotos will pay the season. Maybe DS3 WRC would be better for Robert.

No way that Citroën Total Abu Dhabi will take Kubica and it´s not possible if Total is still behind works team and Lotos is supporting Robert.

Matton has said that it´s possibe Citroën will take younger driver instead of Østberg and then the 2nd driver must be Abbring (if must be French: Lefebvre or Chardonnet).

Mintexmemory

15th October 2014, 10:29

Funny how Ostberg has progressed from young gun to also ran in the space of 3 years! If Citroen do replace him then Abbring is the obvious choice

polo10

15th October 2014, 15:58

Kubica will have to pay to drive so he can have whatever car he wants...
Not every car...If he wants a Polo WRC probably he will not have it, even if he pays a lot of Money....

N.O.T

15th October 2014, 18:51

yes of course, i ment from those that provide customer cars.

stefanvv

15th October 2014, 20:15

Probably Hyundai would be the best car for Kubica.

N.O.T

15th October 2014, 20:17

why ?

stefanvv

15th October 2014, 21:45

He tried already Citroen and Ford.

N.O.T

15th October 2014, 22:04

LOL... square logic.

kolin

16th October 2014, 10:02

It does not matter which car Kubica drives. He did not the end anyway, most of the events. :D

Doon

16th October 2014, 11:09

Funny how Ostberg has progressed from young gun to also ran in the space of 3 years! If Citroen do replace him then Abbring is the obvious choice

Was anyone ever in doubt that he would be anything but an also run?

Yes, Abbring is a good choice.

rallyfiend

16th October 2014, 11:12

Graeme Swann competing at Rally GB seems to be all over all the UK papers today.

Admittedly most of it relates to cricket, but Rally GB getting a bit of a go.

stefanvv

16th October 2014, 12:10

It does not matter which car Kubica drives. He did not the end anyway, most of the events. :D

You totally destroyed the enthusiasm of his fans. There is still hope when there are more cars around;)

kolin

16th October 2014, 12:23

You totally destroyd the enthusiasm of his fans. There is still hope when there are more cars around;)

Kubica has so far picked up only 14 points.
I do not destroy anything. It's just a fact. :D

skarderud

16th October 2014, 13:01

Sordo is in for 10 rounds in hyundai #2 next season.

stefanvv

16th October 2014, 13:29

Sordo is in for 10 rounds in hyundai #2 next season.

Well that's good news, good for Sordo. I see Hyundai are now focusing on the championship rather than tests.

nafpaktos

16th October 2014, 13:37

Wilson=Big businessman
Even as private team still grows.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116371

Hartusvuori

16th October 2014, 14:05

Wilson=Big businessman
Even as private team still grows.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116371

For the first time someone is complaining about the amount noise Fiesta R5 makes :-)

But remarkable invest from Wilson. Hats off.

denkimi

16th October 2014, 15:18

Kubica has so far picked up only 14 points.
I do not destroy anything. It's just a fact. :D
even prokop or henning solberg are doing better than kubica.

Gregor-y

16th October 2014, 16:48

Wilson=Big businessman
Even as private team still grows.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116371

Just stay away from F1.

Eli

16th October 2014, 16:55

Sordo is in for 10 rounds in hyundai #2 next season.

where did you hear that from?

EightGear

16th October 2014, 19:17

"In an effort to boost entries on events outside Europe, for 2015 nationally homologated cars will be permitted to participate in non-European events, without the eligibility to score Power Stage or championship points."

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/october/wrc-commission/page/1860--12-12-.html

That looks like a sensible move.

Jack4688`

16th October 2014, 19:57

"Currently, no further changes are being made to the format of rallies, prior to more consultation"

skarderud

16th October 2014, 20:00

Sordo: https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=3&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://motor.as.com/motor/2014/10/16/mas_motor/1413414175_840996.html&usg=ALkJrhiD8ajY1wKNVtp-oIDFDXoKORun2g

nafpaktos

16th October 2014, 20:32

Mirek

16th October 2014, 20:51

i would like to see what maxi cars can do against wrc2 cars.

Didn't they do Rally Argentina?

Eli

16th October 2014, 20:54

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116379 yes finally some sensible thinking at last!!!

AndyRAC

16th October 2014, 21:05

Common sense at last - for now. What is the next mad cap idea Capito, Ciesla & RedBull will come up with??? Any ideas??

Fortunately, it seems as if Todt is going to have a more hands on role in the WRC future.

rallyfun

16th October 2014, 21:44

Kubica has so far picked up only 14 points.
I do not destroy anything. It's just a fact. :D
He won more stages than Evans, Sordo and as many as Neuville this season in worst WRC car. It's just a fact.

denkimi

16th October 2014, 21:59

He won more stages than Evans, Sordo and as many as Neuville this season in worst WRC car. It's just a fact.
he has crashed more than evans, sordo and neuville combined.

rallying is not about being the fastest on a few stages.

Jack4688`

16th October 2014, 22:04

Thank f*** for that!

Common sense at last - for now. What is the next mad cap idea Capito, Ciesla & RedBull will come up with??? Any ideas??

Fortunately, it seems as if Todt is going to have a more hands on role in the WRC future.

They still need to get rid of Ciesla and WRC Promoter (unfortunately they are powerless to get rid of Capito) & get a promoter in that will PROMOTE the championship, not try to alter the way the sport works, & has worked for many decades.

Rallyper

17th October 2014, 02:09

he has crashed more than evans, sordo and neuville combined.

rallying is not about being the fastest on a few stages.

Judging for one season is too soon. Kubica will progress. That´s for sure. Let´s talk next year this time. He has all qualitys to be a top five guy in WRC.

wwbroe

17th October 2014, 11:35

According to this article: http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2014/10/16/neue-startreihenfolge-kommt/index.html, there will be almost no changes to WRC format. There will be no shoot-out (luckily), no points at end of each day, only starting order will be changed. If i understand it right, championship leader will be first on the road on friday and saterday, whilst on sunday it will be reversed order.;) Seems Jost has lost his fight for shootout.

nafpaktos

17th October 2014, 12:05

Didn't they do Rally Argentina?

Yes mirek you are right(as usual),thanks.even i've read an article about maxi cars on motorsport-monday some weeks or months ago and it was mention this its like i have never read it.

306 Cosworth

17th October 2014, 13:29

Judging for one season is too soon. Kubica will progress. That´s for sure. Let´s talk next year this time. He has all qualitys to be a top five guy in WRC.

Evans is in his first season too, but fortunately he understands that to learn, you need to finish rallies too.

thuGG

17th October 2014, 13:48

And do you seriously think that Kubica don't know that? Is he doing this on purpose?

KKS

17th October 2014, 14:12

He knows, but not too worried about it

makinen_fan

17th October 2014, 15:23

Didn't they do Rally Argentina?

Wasn't it a different event altogether, much like Acropolis in ERC this year? At least wrc.com does not have their results: http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/results/argentina/entry/startlist/page/349-230-8--.html

denkimi

17th October 2014, 15:27

Judging for one season is too soon. Kubica will progress. That´s for sure. Let´s talk next year this time. He has all qualitys to be a top five guy in WRC.
i doubt it. he was crashing all the time in 2009, and he doesn't seem to have improved a lot since then.
and it is not like he's just unlucky. no, he keeps going off many times during every rally until he's unable to continue.

no doubt kubica is a great driver, but right now it looks like he's just not wrc-material.

jacko

17th October 2014, 18:06

About Kubica; it's very good to have a driver like him in the WRC in general. What's the point to be negative about him. He's very quick, one of the fastest already on tarmac. He's for sure a better one than Kimi Raikkonen two seasons long. When are you wrc-potential ? If you win a rally ? Or a top three ? What are you talking about... They can't win all, that will be all the time. You have winners, drivers that are quick but not champion-potential and you have drivers with money and have a good car. So was it in the 70's, 80's, 90's, nowadays and it will be always the same, like in other motor-/autosport divisions.

But for me it's the times a driver set on the stages and Kubica is still in progress (first full season in the top-class of the WRC) and i believe he will be even faster next year. And if Kubica will end 13 times off the road next season (which i doubt) it will not change my opinion about him, i'm happy to see this guy at work, he's good and nice for the fans and Robert's place in the WRC is more than worth !

Andre Oliveira

17th October 2014, 18:51

Wasn't it a different event altogether, much like Acropolis in ERC this year? At least wrc.com does not have their results: http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/results/argentina/entry/startlist/page/349-230-8--.html

http://ewrc-results.com/final.php?e=13895&s=0&sct=59&t=XION-Rally-Argentina-2014

stefanvv

17th October 2014, 18:57

What's the point to be negative about him.

I agree, there is no point at all. He's nice guy and doesn't deserve negativism. I still think his place is on the circuit (and I believe he secretly hopes one day it'll be).

rallyfun

17th October 2014, 19:46

i doubt it. he was crashing all the time in 2009, and he doesn't seem to have improved a lot since then.

What are you talking about? In 2009 he was competing in F1...

jd_89

17th October 2014, 21:47

Kubica did four rallies in 2009 with Clio R3, didn't finished three of them. He improved very much next year though, as can be seen here: http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=8567&t=Robert-Kubica

Altough, I am very critical about him lately, I think he deserves his place in WRC. I just can't understand all the hype around him in "Polish Internet" and treating him as a moral winner, using weird excuses every time he finish rally with an accident. He is still a nice addition to championship, and maybe a serious competitor in some rallies, but that - future will show.

skarderud

18th October 2014, 23:28

Is 13 mill € enough for ogier to change to hyundai? Rumours says so could be?

N.O.T

19th October 2014, 00:16

Is 13 mill € enough for ogier to change to hyundai? Rumours says so could be?

no they are not...

Silverbullet050

19th October 2014, 01:01

13mil yes I think it's enough! This would really turn things on its head

Mintexmemory

19th October 2014, 11:33

Are you aware of what Ogier's deal with VW is? If 13M is only 2M more then he would probably lose that in Image rights if he isn't WDC. He's already rich, I think his main motivation is becoming top Seb - for that he needs to be in the VW team for as long as they have the advantage. If he goes to Hyundai now then JML is 2015 WDC

Jack4688`

19th October 2014, 12:41

Well it's highly unlikely that anyone will ever beat Loeb's 9 consecutive titles. Maybe he wants to achieve something a little bit different and win multiple titles with multiple manufacturers. Has anyone won more titles with more manufacturers than Juha Kankkunen? (Peugot, Lancia, Toyota)

Having said that I don't believe for a second that he'll leave VW

Mirek

19th October 2014, 14:03

Has anyone won more titles with more manufacturers than Juha Kankkunen? (Peugot, Lancia, Toyota)

Sure not.

AndyRAC

19th October 2014, 14:26

I can't see him going - the car still isn't fully developed, and he's already spent a year (2012) doing that with VW. Unless he's motivated by money, and 13M is massively more than what he currently gets, I can't see him moving.

In any case, I think he'll try to win a few more Titles, and he'll be off doing other series he's expressed an interest in.

Jack4688`

19th October 2014, 17:39

Unless he's motivated by the thought of turning Hyundai into championship contenders.

Again I don't see that being the case, just putting it out there :D

Frostmourne

22nd October 2014, 16:50

I think if Ogier moves to Hyundai, things will be really interesting next season. I hope he will be greedy to make that move. After all, he has family now, I hope he will consider the extra cash to support his family :P

Arnold Triyudho Wardono

22nd October 2014, 18:25

I wonder if we'll see privateer version of Polo WRC..?

Francis44

22nd October 2014, 19:14

I very much doubt Ogier is willing to take that risk and leave VW.

However we dont know how are the relations inside the team between drivers and management. Anyway from what he said in France it looked like the parts involved had already reached an agreement.

dodge33cymru

23rd October 2014, 08:51

So the same three confirmed at VW, no surprise there.

So now I guess all the other pieces will start to fall into place in fairly unspectacular style.

I guess one seat is fairly 'open' on each of the other three main teams (assuming MSport are definitely returning next year).

At the moment though, I don't see much changing. I'm sire Hyundai will choose from their existing roster, Ford seemingly have to choose between Hirvonen and Tanak (all credit to Hirvonen for currently being fourth in standings) and Citroen have to see if there's anyone out there who could actually do a better job than Ostberg.

EightGear

23rd October 2014, 15:04

Question to Kevin Abbring
We’re getting close to the end of the year. What are your plans for next season?

KA: “The Peugeot Rally Academy family I am with now, I like them and I like the people around me. We’ve all been working very hard to get the performance out of the car and the team. I hope to continue like this but maybe in WRC2. My aim is to go back to the WRC. The ERC rallies have been very exciting for me and helpful but I hope to go back to the WRC.”

Source: http://www.fiaerc.com/news/detail/id/5939

AdvEvo

23rd October 2014, 17:34

Manufactures rather have a driver from a country were they can sell a lot of cars. The dutch car market is very bad. Also sponsership and budget from dutch sponsors is a nogo.

Jack4688`

23rd October 2014, 18:49

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116468

"This decision means nothing will improve" - Capito

No, it means the WRC won't become inexorably worse next season!

dodge33cymru

23rd October 2014, 18:58

RAS007

23rd October 2014, 18:58

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116468

"This decision means nothing will improve" - Capito

No, it means the WRC won't become inexorably worse next season!

Correct! I really wish Capito would just fuck off. What the WRC needs is more manufacturer teams. Mitsubishi, Subaru, Toyota, Ford, where are you? That being said, I would rather have a WRC without VW, than a WRC with VW and this kind of arcade-game gimmicky shit, which would totally destroy the fabric of the sport.

dodge33cymru

23rd October 2014, 19:00

It needs more competitive teams, sure, bit it won't get them without people watching. I understand why that is their goal, but it's completely the wrong way to go about it.

SubaruNorway

23rd October 2014, 19:03

Maybe they should stop using insane amounts of money so they actually would get sustainable investment...

EightGear

23rd October 2014, 19:41

Manufactures rather have a driver from a country were they can sell a lot of cars. The dutch car market is very bad. Also sponsership and budget from dutch sponsors is a nogo.
So Finland has a big car market? Or Belgium? Or New Zealand? Or Ireland?

Agree about the money though. All motorsport sponsorship is being spent on circuit racing.

Jack4688`

23rd October 2014, 19:41

Correct! I really wish Capito would just fuck off. What the WRC needs is more manufacturer teams. Mitsubishi, Subaru, Toyota, Ford, where are you? That being said, I would rather have a WRC without VW, than a WRC with VW and this kind of arcade-game gimmicky shit, which would totally destroy the fabric of the sport.

Hahaha that couldn't be worded better! Now we just need some journo to tell him that.

I agree about VW - if they want this then they should create a new sport, perhaps a sprint rally championship, instead of trying to feck about with a sport that can work well with GOOD PROMOTION. Instead we have WRC Promoter who, I'm guessing, is filled top-down with completely incompetent employees. That Ciesla fella especially.

Fixing (and by that I mean ruining) things that aren't broken are not going to help the WRC. Incidentally that goes for F1 too.

AndyRAC

23rd October 2014, 19:46

Exactly, if they want more viewing figures, ruining the sport won't get them: doing something about it will.

Put the coverage online, for free, like SRO do with their GT series. WRC+ is a start, but that should be the premium service.

Make it available for free for a year and see if those figures improve. It will do a lot more for the sport than changing the rules and still making it impossible to watch.

VW complain about low viewing figures, but RedBull sell the rights to PayTV - with low viewing figures. Oh, what a shock...
RedBull have done what lots of others promoters have done; sell TV rights, and do very little promotion. Niche Motorsport series dont help themselves by selling to PayTV. You will never grow by doing that. Get events visiting major towns/ cities and promote; the crowds will come out. As seen from tonight.

Formaldehyde

23rd October 2014, 19:58

"At the end of 2015, we will look at the [television viewing] figures," he said.

"We will see how they improve from 2014 and then take a decision whether to stay in the WRC or to go out at the end of 2016 based on these figures.

"But I don't see how 2015 can be any better than 2014 now; if a broadcaster has not been interested up until this point, I don't see how we can convince them now.

"The return on investment is not sustainable."

lol. Capito sounds like a spoiled child having a tantrum. Remember when you were a child, and you were playing football or whatever with your friends? Someone would make fun of the kid who owned the ball, and he would go home crying and take the ball away with him because he didn't want their friends to have fun if they were not going to treat him like a special star. We all had a friend like this. Capito is threatening to do the exact same thing. Good riddance. Like someone else said... I'd rather have no VW than VW killing the sport.

Eli

23rd October 2014, 20:03

i hope we won't see VW Motorsport in the WRC after 2016, honestly i prefer to see latvala in toyota, Ogier-don't care about him and mikkelsen alongside Latvala..

Mintexmemory

23rd October 2014, 20:21

i hope we won't see VW Motorsport in the WRC after 2016, honestly i prefer to see latvala in toyota, Ogier-don't care about him and mikkelsen alongside Latvala..

Why on earth would Toyota not want the 4 time WDC at the end of 2016? The only decision is for Latvala to transfer early for the development year, much depends how close he is to Ogier next season. (How's that for provocative?)

Eli

23rd October 2014, 21:10

well if Latvala wants a chance in becoming World champion he needs to do it with toyota

makinen_fan

24th October 2014, 15:18

Info about Dmack challenge for 2015
http://www.irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00007571

Interesting that a 1L 3cylinder turbocharged Fiesta will be used

Jack4688`

24th October 2014, 15:36

Does that need to be homologated or does it not matter as, although appearing in the WRC, it is for a one-make championship?

pantealex

24th October 2014, 16:13

Does that need to be homologated or does it not matter as, although appearing in the WRC, it is for a one-make championship?

it was homologated 1 year ago (R2T)

Eli

24th October 2014, 16:17

http://www.irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00007582&10#

SubaruNorway

24th October 2014, 17:33

Info about Dmack challenge for 2015
http://www.irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00007571

Interesting that a 1L 3cylinder turbocharged Fiesta will be used

Hopefully it will sound better than the road car, but it's a Ford so i guess we're used to bad engine sounds from them by now :p

MJW

25th October 2014, 11:26

i hope we won't see VW Motorsport in the WRC after 2016, honestly i prefer to see latvala in toyota, Ogier-don't care about him and mikkelsen alongside Latvala..
If the rumours of Audi quitting DTM and LeMans to enter F1 ( with Alonso) in 2016 is true then I suspect we may not see VW after 2015. It's typical of their way of doing things, huge Dakar effort for a few years dominance then off to new adventures.

Mirek

25th October 2014, 11:45

Hopefully it will sound better than the road car, but it's a Ford so i guess we're used to bad engine sounds from them by now :p

I haven't had a chance to drive the 1.0 Ecoboost yet but my colleague had it in a rental Focus last week and the first thing he told me was how strange sound the engine has :)

stefanvv

25th October 2014, 11:48

Eli

25th October 2014, 14:24

what's the diffrence between this year's cars to next year's?

Jack4688`

25th October 2014, 14:28

MJW

25th October 2014, 14:33

Where have you heard these rumours????
quite a bit here

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/2016-audi-f1-program-with-alonso-rumored-to-be-in-the-works/

jacko

25th October 2014, 14:38

If the rumours of Audi quitting DTM and LeMans to enter F1 ( with Alonso) in 2016 is true then I suspect we may not see VW after 2015. It's typical of their way of doing things, huge Dakar effort for a few years dominance then off to new adventures.

Please stop making yourself looking like a fool. Why to blame VW/Audi for doing business? First of all Audi is very loyal to the Le Mans and DTM series. Second: VW quit Dakar to enter the WRC. I don't think VW will leave the WRC within the next three years. They have invest a lot of money and now they have a lot of successes. Yes, they want more exposure and change some rules but it's just ball-game to threathing to leave the WRC if everthing will be the same. Many car-manufacturers have past (or still in) the WRC, some for many years, some for just a few, they all have a good reason and that will always be the case in the future.

MJW

25th October 2014, 15:16

Rallyper

25th October 2014, 16:09

I haven't had a chance to drive the 1.0 Ecoboost yet but my colleague had it in a rental Focus last week and the first thing he told me was how strange sound the engine has :)

Only reference for me is my daughters Corsa Eco 1,0 (3-cyl) which sounded like an old Saab 3-cyl two stroke engine from beginning of the 60´s.

janvanvurpa

25th October 2014, 16:43

Only reference for me is my daughters Corsa Eco 1,0 (3-cyl) which sounded like an old Saab 3-cyl two stroke engine from beginning of the 60´s.

Sounds like the might Saab 3cyl 850? The one the beat the whole world--even on asphalt?
So did the Opel finally get rid of all those useless things like valves and cams and valve springs and camshafts and big gummi band to run all those undeeded junk?
Did they find a way to make that Old-pile fire EVERY time the pistons come to the top?
Instead of firing every now and then like 4-takt skrot does, if its in a good mood?

Rallyper

25th October 2014, 16:49

Sounds like the might Saab 3cyl 850? The one the beat the whole world--even on asphalt?
So did the Opel finally get rid of all those useless things like valves and cams and valve springs and camshafts and big gummi band to run all those undeeded junk?
Did they find a way to make that Old-pile fire EVERY time the pistons come to the top?
Instead of firing every now and then like 4-takt skrot does, if its in a good mood?

I f you mean I don´t know difference between twostroke and 4-T, I do. I just commented the sound and they actually sounds about the same (Corsa 1,0 4-T and Saab 2-T).
Btw back in the years I was starting my career as district rally driver I now and then did maintenance on the 2-T Saab Sport engine by taking it apart and mounting it together again. The engine didn´t work with any other sparkplugs but Champion UK16V btw. If any other there where a hole in piston right away...

janvanvurpa

25th October 2014, 18:51

I f you mean I don´t know difference between twostroke and 4-T, I do. I just commented the sound and they actually sounds about the same (Corsa 1,0 4-T and Saab 2-T).
Btw back in the years I was starting my career as district rally driver I now and then did maintenance on the 2-T Saab Sport engine by taking it apart and mounting it together again. The engine didn´t work with any other sparkplugs but Champion UK16V btw. If any other there where a hole in piston right away...

Just joking Pelle, you know I spend 20 years on nice 2 strokes before I start seriously working on miserable cars....I just love the simplicity of two stroke and the wonderful fact that they fire---and make power---every single time the piston goes up......a good 2-t moto-cross bike by late 70s would make 33hp for 1/4 liter which would be 264hp from 2 liter---with just a single carb....no valves, no camshafts, no springs, no ECU, and with just cleaning the air filter--do that for a whole season and run like a clock...
40 years ago.. I think we'd all love to have that power and that reliability in the engine, clutch, and especially the gearbox----thousands of shifts at full throttle, no problems..

Cars are so complicated, so delicate, so insanely costly....so bad only a handful of people can afford to really piska djävlarna ordentligt....... I mean what does just a gearbox and axles cost from Sadev for a little Ford Fiesta FWD car? ca 100,000 kr or more... Who has money for that?

Rallyper

25th October 2014, 23:55

Just joking Pelle, you know I spend 20 years on nice 2 strokes before I start seriously working on miserable cars....I just love the simplicity of two stroke and the wonderful fact that they fire---and make power---every single time the piston goes up......a good 2-t moto-cross bike by late 70s would make 33hp for 1/4 liter which would be 264hp from 2 liter---with just a single carb....no valves, no camshafts, no springs, no ECU, and with just cleaning the air filter--do that for a whole season and run like a clock...
40 years ago.. I think we'd all love to have that power and that reliability in the engine, clutch, and especially the gearbox----thousands of shifts at full throttle, no problems..

Cars are so complicated, so delicate, so insanely costly....so bad one a handful of people can afford to really piska djävlarna ordentligt....... I mean what does just a gearbox and axles cost from Sadev for a little Ford Fiesta FWD car? ca 100,000 kr or more... Who has money for that?

Why not use the 2T Bombardier engine used in Evinrude outboards in cars. How would that do? The Evinrude beats the 4T outboards everytime in power, effeciency etz!

raybak

26th October 2014, 04:42

3 cyl turbo engines sound awesome in the forest. I know because I rally one, the mighty Daihatsu Charade GTti with the CB80 engine. Over 200hp, 920kg pocket rocket.

jacko

26th October 2014, 09:18

I am not making myself a fool - I just re-post what I read on the internet in the news and rumours thread. I am not pretending that my info is real or privileged, it was a simple re-post of info that is on the internet.

I did not reply about the VW/Audi rumours, it could be possible like any other rumour. My angry had to do with your quote typical of their way... I think that's really not correct and a wrong opinion.

AndyRAC

26th October 2014, 13:20

If the rumours of Audi quitting DTM and LeMans to enter F1 ( with Alonso) in 2016 is true then I suspect we may not see VW after 2015. It's typical of their way of doing things, huge Dakar effort for a few years dominance then off to new adventures.

It wouldn't be the biggest surprise. But I can't see Audi in F1, doesn't fit their 'road relevance' image. They would only do it for exposure; one F1 race gives more exposure than a season of WEC. As for VW, I don't think they'll hang around WRC for too long. In fact, I think they could go to F1 as a possible engine supplier.

MJW

26th October 2014, 15:47

I did not reply about the VW/Audi rumours, it could be possible like any other rumour. My angry had to do with your quote typical of their way... I think that's really not correct and a wrong opinion.
So remind me how many years were VW in Dakar? And what kind of results fid they have?

AndyRAC

26th October 2014, 16:02

VW Motorsport has nothing to do with AUDI sports adventures

Apart from the fact that all programmes get signed off by the VW Motorsport group - which meets throughout the year to discuss progress.

bluuford

26th October 2014, 17:20

They found that Dakar is even less worth the money they spent. The event lasts 3 weeks (rest of the year is empty) and if I remember correctly, then their budget was the same as now. And basically, there was no competition at all for them. And finally, the event took place in the countries where the market of their new cars is minor. Current talk is just to put some perssure on media stakeholders.

stefanvv

26th October 2014, 18:13

Apart from the fact that all programmes get signed off by the VW Motorsport group - which meets throughout the year to discuss progress.

There is no VW Motorsport group, there is only VW Group which is the cap for all motorsport divisions in the Company brands.

dodge33cymru

27th October 2014, 00:02

Audi have already rubbished the F1 rumour in fairly convincing style.

Barreis

27th October 2014, 21:04

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116515

bluuford

27th October 2014, 21:28

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116515

Heh.. it is really funny/controversial that Ogier won so easily in Spain thanks to the fact that he was first on the road for the first day:-)

Frostmourne

29th October 2014, 16:00

Heh.. it is really funny/controversial that Ogier won so easily in Spain thanks to the fact that he was first on the road for the first day:-)

Sorry, did not follow Spain rally. What was the advantage to be first in the road for the first day in Spain?

Quad

29th October 2014, 16:04

Sorry, did not follow Spain rally. What was the advantage to be first in the road for the first day in Spain?

Yep. Only he could saw the road :)

Sulland

29th October 2014, 17:01

Why not use the 2T Bombardier engine used in Evinrude outboards in cars. How would that do? The Evinrude beats the 4T outboards everytime in power, effeciency etz!

There was a snowmobile tuner in the US in the late 90s that put a rotax/ ski-doo engine in a racecar, including the variator gearing (CVT). Modern 2 strokes are beautiful machines!
And the norwegian Shortcar class uses 4 stroke mc engines with success!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpXhRhaKsU4

VFTS

29th October 2014, 18:46

Sorry, did not follow Spain rally. What was the advantage to be first in the road for the first day in Spain?

He was the only one that didnt have any dust in his sight. It was a huge problem for all the others.

vino_93

29th October 2014, 22:56

French newspaper Autohebdo reveals that Eric Camilli, Stéphane Lefebvre, Kevin Abbring, Pontus Tidemand, and Teemu Suninen tested for Toyota after the Rally Catalunya. They used GT86 R3, and Toyota is planning to enter two cars in WRC3 next year.
Then Toyota tested the Yaris WRC, but I don't know if the young guns tested it, or if the usual test drivers where there ...

nafpaktos

29th October 2014, 23:13

I would like to hear their comments,it would be really intresting.

stefanvv

29th October 2014, 23:35

I doubt they're allowed to

EightGear

30th October 2014, 11:37

They tested the Yaris WRC as well: http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2014/10/30/toyota-testet-rallye-nachwuchs/index.html

Lappi didn't get permission from Skoda.

EightGear

30th October 2014, 19:56

A long video of Toyota testing in Italy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCVcIJMWwjM&feature=youtu.be

Jack4688`

30th October 2014, 21:58

For f*ck sake that car infuriates me. Why would we want to see a car that tiny competing at the very top level of rallying? I hope that the 2017 regs do specify larger cars. My biggest bugbear about the current cars is that they're all these tiny shopping trolleys that look barely any different to one another. The Yaris is so small they had to get special dispensation from the FIA about 2 years ago to allow it to be eligible.

Before anyone gives me any shite about the cars needing to be relevant or being the models that sell the most and these are what is more marketable - it doesn't matter if the end product (the WRC) suffers. Part of improving the promotion of the WRC will be having more exciting, interesting, desirable cars competing. Send this to the scrapheap and get that GT86 fully developed!

N.O.T

30th October 2014, 22:58

LOOOOL... ohh lord.

stefanvv

30th October 2014, 23:21

The tendency says otherwise - next generation WRC cars will be even smaller. Smart perhaps?!?:D

Jack4688`

30th October 2014, 23:44

The tendency says otherwise - next generation WRC cars will be even smaller. Smart perhaps?!?:D

If you're trying to make me fall in heap on the floor crying you're nearly there!

dodge33cymru

31st October 2014, 00:02

stefanvv

31st October 2014, 00:06

If you're trying to make me fall in heap on the floor crying you're nearly there!

Sorry, bad joke. I also prefer bigger cars as I think are more difficult to control, and so often are more spectacular, so You have my thumbs up here. Let's hope for some positive development of the idea of segment D cars.

Mirek

31st October 2014, 09:16

Doon

31st October 2014, 09:50

Guys, have You realized that all car classes have grown through the years? Recent superminis are not so small in term of the rally history. See...

Lancia Stratos 3,71 m
Audi Sport Quattro 4,16 m
Peugeot 205 3,70 m
Lancia Delta 3,90 m
Toyota Celica ST165 4,17 m
Lancia 037 3,92 m

Polo WRC 3,98 m
Fiesta WRC 3,96 m
DS3 WRC 3,95 m
i20 WRC 3,94 m
Mini WRC 4,11 m

It's almost same as You can see. Only the two-litre generation of WRC and gr.N brought much bigger cars such as Impreza, Lancer or Octavia.

Yes, and the Lancer, Impreza and especially the Octavia were the most ugly WRC cars ever made! The new superminis all look good as road cars and look fantastic in WRC trim close up.

stefanvv

31st October 2014, 10:23

Guys, have You realized that all car classes have grown through the years? Recent superminis are not so small in term of the rally history. See...

Lancia Stratos 3,71 m
Audi Sport Quattro 4,16 m
Peugeot 205 3,70 m
Lancia Delta 3,90 m
Toyota Celica ST165 4,17 m
Lancia 037 3,92 m

Polo WRC 3,98 m
Fiesta WRC 3,96 m
DS3 WRC 3,95 m
i20 WRC 3,94 m
Mini WRC 4,11 m

It's almost same as You can see. Only the two-litre generation of WRC and gr.N brought much bigger cars such as Impreza, Lancer or Octavia.

You're completely right. Mini cars as they were initially used to be like Polo for example are not so mini anymore. They're replaced by other mini models, Up in case of Polo. In fact there are not so big size differences between segment B and C currently, the biggest differences seems to be the engines.

pantealex

31st October 2014, 15:18

Bigger cars with 15" (gravel)wheels, forget it!!!

Jack4688`

31st October 2014, 16:41

Did you have the old 205s and Renault 5s the same way? I like the current generation of cars, really twitchy and look on the edge because of their short wheelbases. Much prefer this generation to the C4/Focus one before it.

Good to see Toyota trying out so many of the talented youngsters, although I hope they're thinking about a 2016 entry rather than later; it'd be ridiculous to have these guys 'stuck' in RWD R3 cars for two years waiting for a chance to compete.

OK you've got me there. Not the biggest fan of the 205 T16 or Renault 5 GT Turbo but they did look good. Possibly beacuse not all the other manufacturers at the time were making the same size car. I also agree about the C4 and MkII Focus - they are probably the worst looking generaton of WRC cars!

Sorry, bad joke. I also prefer bigger cars as I think are more difficult to control, and so often are more spectacular, so You have my thumbs up here. Let's hope for some positive development of the idea of segment D cars.

I read that in Autosport a few months ago but I think D segment is too far - a Passat or Mondeo WRC would look ridiculous... and not in a good way! I think C segment cars would look just right - Peugeot 308, Audi S3 (I can only dream) and maybe a few odballs like GT86 and Scirocco.

Guys, have You realized that all car classes have grown through the years? Recent superminis are not so small in term of the rally history. See...

Lancia Stratos 3,71 m
Audi Sport Quattro 4,16 m
Peugeot 205 3,70 m
Lancia Delta 3,90 m
Toyota Celica ST165 4,17 m
Lancia 037 3,92 m

Polo WRC 3,98 m
Fiesta WRC 3,96 m
DS3 WRC 3,95 m
i20 WRC 3,94 m
Mini WRC 4,11 m

It's almost same as You can see. Only the two-litre generation of WRC and gr.N brought much bigger cars such as Impreza, Lancer or Octavia.

Yes they may have grown but for example the differences between a Lancia 037 and a Hyundai i20 WRC is much more than 20mm in the overall length. The fact is all the current generation of cars are more or less the same, there's no variety in body shape. The only anomaly in today's WRC cars is the Mini Countryman but look at the variety in the cars you listed above, and that's just in terms of overall length. Granted they're not all from the same era but I think the point is still valid.

That Yaris just takes it too far - that thing is teeeeeeeny tiny and is surely not worthy of being a WRC car? Especially over a GT86! The cars competing in the WRC should be desirable, maybe exotic, cars that we aspire to buy. Not the car your granny drives to the shops!

Gregor-y

31st October 2014, 16:48

Yes, and the Lancer, Impreza and especially the Octavia were the most ugly WRC cars ever made! The new superminis all look good as road cars and look fantastic in WRC trim close up.

Yes, but those 'ugly' WRC cars were all available with four wheel drive as road cars. Today's rally cars don't bear much resemblance to what you can buy.

jbmarcus21

31st October 2014, 17:24

Citroen in Condroz.. Full Album http://planetemarcus.com/citroen-au-rallye-condroz-huy-2014/

Mirek

31st October 2014, 17:41

That Yaris just takes it too far - that thing is teeeeeeeny tiny and is surely not worthy of being a WRC car? Especially over a GT86! The cars competing in the WRC should be desirable, maybe exotic, cars that we aspire to buy. Not the car your granny drives to the shops!

Actually I agree with You that the recent supertuned shopping bags sometimes look funny (Yaris definitely) but there are two very valid reasons behind them.

First small cars are better suitable for rallying (not always but mostly they are). It's not the rules what makes the car small. You can make a Mondeo WRC if You like. The rules allow it. The problem is that Your car will be useless. The first reason why all use same size of cars is that it works.

Second point is that marketing guys of the big car makers want to promote what they sell the most. I seriously doubt Toyota makes any reasonable profit out of GT-86. That's more an image-maker than a bestseller. On the other hand they sell millions of Yaris. Also it's important if the cars fight with their counterparts on the market. Do You think it was a good PR for Subaru when Impreza was regularly beaten by C4? Impreza, the Japanese tecno-rocket, blue dream of every petrolhead loosing with some stupid French shopping bag Your neighbour's mother drives? Sure not. For the same reason it's purely stupid for Porsche to loose with Hyundai.

AndyRAC

31st October 2014, 19:47

Eli

31st October 2014, 19:51

I'll be honest, I've no wish to buy a DS3, Polo, Fiesta or a i20....I'm sure they're nice cars, but a bit 'bland', and hardly jaw dropping. They're not really cars one aspires to owning, are they? However, I know I'm in the minority.

well count me in, i'm sorry but the Impreza for all it's generations (until '08) was a very cool rally car and so was the focus the Xsara and the C4, and to say the C4 coupe WRC car was ugly????!!!! no, if they make the cars bigger make them C segment like they used to be. how cool would it be to see 308R-WRC Golf-(next gen) WRC and etc. again i know i'm apart of the minority but that's what i think

Jack4688`

31st October 2014, 20:02

It's not the rules what makes the car small. You can make a Mondeo WRC if You like. The rules allow it. The problem is that Your car will be useless. The first reason why all use same size of cars is that it works.

But if the minimum length of the car was increased then surely we'd see bigger cars and a potential for more variety. I'm sure someone will show dimensions of a GT86 which will prove me wrong though :D

I'm all for the R5s being this size of car because it seems appropriate for the level below WRC. Also when you think of it at that level it easier to appreciate the look of the cars - the Fabia S2000 and R5 both look very impressive to me and the Fiesta in S2000, RRC, WRC and R5 forms doesn't look too bad either.

Second point is that marketing guys of the big car makers want to promote what they sell the most. I seriously doubt Toyota makes any reasonable profit out of GT-86. That's more an image-maker than a bestseller. On the other hand they sell millions of Yaris.

I certainly can't argue with that but with the WRC in the state it's in these little cars don't do the championship any favours. Maybe we need to see WRC versions of these image-makers or 'halo cars' because whatever car you are using, motorsport success reflects well on the car company as a whole.

Does grandma really need to see a car similar in appearance to hers winning the Monte? Or does the championship need to engage the fans with an exciting product? An exciting product that can be more easily promoted (unless the promoter happens to be a group of incompetent, feckless, mentally challenged imbeciles who will f**k up even the easiest of jobs)

stefanvv

31st October 2014, 22:13

I read that in Autosport a few months ago but I think D segment is too far - a Passat or Mondeo WRC would look ridiculous... and not in a good way! I think C segment cars would look just right - Peugeot 308, Audi S3 (I can only dream) and maybe a few odballs like GT86 and Scirocco.

Well I didn't mean segment D per ce, I know it is as ridiculous as it sounds, never going to happen, just the idea of bigger cars. That was mentioned in autosport, true.

Mirek

1st November 2014, 12:05

But if the minimum length of the car was increased then surely we'd see bigger cars and a potential for more variety. I'm sure someone will show dimensions of a GT86 which will prove me wrong though :D

So You would like to make this change by regulation? Why? I personally prefer to have regulations as free as possible and if in the end competitors come to similar result than ok, maybe we can think about changing regs to bring more variety but what variety You bring by changing minimal size? The only difference will be that instead of all being 3,95 meters long they all will be 4,20 for example. Maybe it changes something for You but for me it's a change just for the sake of changing something. IMHO rules shall encourage manufacturers to use different approaches instead.

janvanvurpa

1st November 2014, 17:00

Bigger cars with 15" (gravel)wheels, forget it!!!

http://www.chaoticcrafts.com/Teardrop%20Project/manuelque.jpeg

Jack4688`

2nd November 2014, 11:08

So You would like to make this change by regulation? Why? I personally prefer to have regulations as free as possible and if in the end competitors come to similar result than ok, maybe we can think about changing regs to bring more variety but what variety You bring by changing minimal size? The only difference will be that instead of all being 3,95 meters long they all will be 4,20 for example. Maybe it changes something for You but for me it's a change just for the sake of changing something. IMHO rules shall encourage manufacturers to use different approaches instead.

True, they'd probably all settle for the same size car again but at least it would get rid of these shopping trolleys that we see these days. How do rules that 'encourage' manufacturers to do something work? We all know in motorsport the teams will do up to what is allowed to get the best performance out of their car. Encouraging a manufacturer to do something will only be met with a polite "thanks, but no thanks".

I fear that the only way the cars could be made more interesting and, crucially, less homogenised would be through the use of a more complicated rule set. Remember all the different connotations involved in the Group B rules? Not an ideal solution...

bluuford

2nd November 2014, 12:57

Well.. I like to see fast cars. And when those shopping trollyes are potentially the fastest cars, then that is it. Do not insult cars because of their size ;-)!

ToughMac

2nd November 2014, 19:35

Its not really about the cars size so much its just the fact they all look so generic now.

Franky

2nd November 2014, 19:38

Its not really about the cars size so much its just the fact they all look so generic now.

Tell me which cars don't look near identical in the same car segment. It's the nightmare of modern car industry, everyone is copying each other.

pantealex

3rd November 2014, 17:19

MotorsportMonday´s Prokop story says that new 2015 WRC-cars are only WRC use
There will NOT be RRC-version of those new ones.

Barreis

3rd November 2014, 18:05

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116601

manthey

3rd November 2014, 18:07

MotorsportMonday´s Prokop story says that new 2015 WRC-cars are only WRC use
There will NOT be RRC-version of those new ones.

could be a problem for teams that aim to make some spot race in wrc and erc using one car...

ArunasWRT

4th November 2014, 09:24

Hyundai confirmed that D.Sordo will remain with the team for 2015 and 2016.

rage82

4th November 2014, 09:25

Dani Sordo confirmed to be the second driver for Hyundai in 2015 and 2016! Hyundai Motorsport ‏@HyundaiWRC Exciting news! We’re happy to announce @DaniSordo as one of the #HyundaiWRC drivers for 2015 and 2016!
I'm a little bit dissapointed as I really hope to see Juho in the second car.

EstWRC

4th November 2014, 11:57

A little bit surprised to be honest, i thought it would be Paddon.

Rallyper

4th November 2014, 13:21

Maybe Paddon, Tanak etz didn´t have cv enough? Just my thought even if I´d love to see HP in a third car.

jacko

4th November 2014, 14:00

Well, i think they will keep Hanninen aswell for specialist rally's like Sweden, Poland and Finland and offcorse to develop the new car. For sure there will be a third car and Paddon is one pole-position for that seat. Only the news will come a bit later. There's no rush for bringing on that news i suppose. Maybe all the details are not fixed.
Anyway, think they will go even further with a fourth car on some events, wouldn't suprise me..
What suprises me is a full-season ahead for Sordo in 2016. He's very quick on tarmac, one of the best but on the loose gravel/snow he had his chances but looking back there was not one rally he was impressive. That was the reason Citroën thanked him after 2013, he had showing nothing special and not a guy for the future. So in his negotiation with Hyundai Sordo had done a very good job but i only believe we will see him shining on tarmac.

WUff1

4th November 2014, 14:06

Think Paddon will get the third car, with Hänninen as mentioned at Sweden, Poland, Finnland, and maybe Bouffier at Monte.

Barreis

4th November 2014, 15:00

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116608

jd_89

4th November 2014, 21:30

Colin Clark's point of view on Robert Kubica - interview for sport.pl

Of course, you can be disappointed a little bit, but we should remember, that Robert has a lot to overcome. It is his first season in WRC-class car, so don't forget, that fastest cars in the world are driven here. Kubica competes with a problem, we had never seen before. Generally speaking - you have a driver on a highest level, who tries to win a rally having huge confinement. If we look from this point of view, what he did so far is incredible. Robert fights drivers, who are 100% healthful and we see results of it. What he did so far is a big achievement.

Last time, in Spain, on a gravel section, his car has slipped from the road and it was hard for him to get it back on the way. All of it happened, because he's driving with one hand only. In such situations time of reaction is most important, and how fast can you get back on the road. The way he is driving can't allow him to do it. I am not sure if we should call it "errors" - error happens when you do something wrong. He just can't react fast enough to get back on the route. If he'll can overcome this in future, he'll be a real threat for his rivals.

I am very impressed with his diligence. Robert studies onboards and other videos at nights, works very hard with the team, for he could do his best on every rally. I say, he still thinks, that WRC is a big challenge for him and still can achieve a lot here.

I think, we should not expect wins in the next season. It is really hard challenge. Remember we're talking about WRC - we have many fantastic drivers here, best cars and teams. Everyone wants to beat Volkswagen, but at this moment it is hard task. If Robert will handle one or two problems, that disturbs him, a podium will come next year. If you finish on a podium, there's always a chance for win. I think, in next two or three years, he'll be fighting for victories.

In my opinion Robert can have a problem with getting a factory seat, it looks like most of them are occupied. But I don't have any doubts about him staying in WRC.

Source (http://www.sport.pl/moto/56,64997,16912421,Przyszlosc_Kubicy,,1.html) (in Polish)

Jack4688`

4th November 2014, 21:41

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=31134

Some more detail on the Prodrive Golf. Confirms what I think someone suggested here that it is for the Chinese Rally Championship

Doon

4th November 2014, 21:42

Colin Clark's point of view on Robert Kubica - interview for sport.pl

Source (http://www.sport.pl/moto/56,64997,16912421,Przyszlosc_Kubicy,,1.html) (in Polish)

None of us can drive like Kubica with two hands! He's doing very well in my opinion.

christy but

4th November 2014, 22:12

I hope kubica stays in wrc

N.O.T

4th November 2014, 22:59

None of us can drive like Kubica with two hands! He's doing very well in my opinion.

This is the WRC.. it is not for us... it is for people who can deliver spectacular driving who Kubica does very well but his crashes shows he cannot control his limits on a proper motorsport.

Bruce D

5th November 2014, 07:22

This is something I don't understand. In 2008 in F1 Kubica was mega consistent and didn't throw away results, now in WRC he's constantly off the road.

Franky

5th November 2014, 08:19

This is something I don't understand. In 2008 in F1 Kubica was mega consistent and didn't throw away results, now in WRC he's constantly off the road.

WRC doesn't go in circles

thuGG

5th November 2014, 09:28

This is something I don't understand. In 2008 in F1 Kubica was mega consistent and didn't throw away results, now in WRC he's constantly off the road.

In F1 you have a 5 km track, which you know like the back of your hand. Also there is huge safety margin on most circuits.
WRC on another hand, you have 300-400 km of special stages which are driven 2 times before the rally. Go figure.

AndyRAC

5th November 2014, 09:55

There’s no doubting his ability, you don’t get to F1 without having it – Alonso & Hamilton both ‘feared’ him. But he can’t drive consistently on a WRC event without chucking it off the road. I think it’s making & listening to pace-notes – the ‘classic’ racing driver problem who tries Rallying. He also seems to still be in ‘racing driver’ mode – braking late into corners, and leaving himself no margin if conditions are slippy, or have changed since the recce.

tommeke_B

5th November 2014, 09:56

This is something I don't understand. In 2008 in F1 Kubica was mega consistent and didn't throw away results, now in WRC he's constantly off the road.
So... You don't understand that somebody who was great in one thing 6 (!) years ago isn't so great in something completely different now?

makinen_fan

5th November 2014, 10:50

In the recent Polish interview that someone posted here, Robert admitted that he is still a racing driver and it shows from his inability to rely 100% on pacenotes. He is definitely quick given his short experience, but whether he can really improve on his consistency is another thing. I dont mind him being in the sport as long as he pays for it and doesn't take a seat from more promising drivers

dodge33cymru

5th November 2014, 14:41

Personally, I definitely hope he stays, but I feel he would probably benefit from some consistency; he's never had the same set of circumstances as the previous year. Same co-driver, rallies and, crucially, car, might be invaluable in learning how to be consistent in an actual event.

GigiGalliNo1

5th November 2014, 14:44

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=31134

Some more detail on the Prodrive Golf. Confirms what I think someone suggested here that it is for the Chinese Rally Championship

There has been a VW Golf in the Chinese Rally Championship for at least the last two years.

I said this. I also said that Atkinson was the one driving the car. No one believed me.

HELLO.

noel157

5th November 2014, 14:47

Ogier not happy, understandably but would make things a lot more interesting:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116624

EightGear

5th November 2014, 14:50

Ogier not happy, understandably but would make things a lot more interesting:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116624
Qualifying would be the most fair solution, but what we will get now is still better than letting the slowest drivers sweep.

N.O.T

5th November 2014, 15:12

There has been a VW Golf in the Chinese Rally Championship for at least the last two years.

I said this. I also said that Atkinson was the one driving the car. No one believed me.

HELLO.

That usually happens when 99% of your other posts are lies...

smsgrafica

5th November 2014, 17:31

Ogier not happy, understandably but would make things a lot more interesting:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116624

I think it's just unfair. Artificial excitement is not the right solution. The best driver should always win, but now you'll have the championship leader practically unable to win a gravel round.

Just look at the common rally: 300km in total, with 120km on Friday, 120km on Saturday and 60km on Sunday. So the best driver has the worst road position for 240km out of 300km.

That's a bad idea. Not as much as it was the 10% last stage proposal, but bad none the less!

Barreis

5th November 2014, 17:37

How can this be bad idea?! They should put weight bar in every car that won in last three rallies. Or maybe every rally must be won by VW driver?!

smsgrafica

5th November 2014, 17:43

So, you just want the best driver/car to be penalized for being better than the rest? That's a competition and the best should win, not the mediocre one.

Barreis

5th November 2014, 17:46

Yes it's unfair. But it's boring that in whole season only one rally has been won by other manufacturer then VW. Also don't want to see VW team boss so happy, horrible guy. :D

Jack4688`

5th November 2014, 17:51

It's better than giving the championship leader a head start at the beginning of each rally. Someone has to start the field off on each rally so why give the championship leader the best position? He's already got more points than the rest...

rallyfiend

5th November 2014, 18:23

Ogier can complain all he likes.

The FIA have snuck it through in a FAx Vote of the World Motor Sport Council rather than wait until next meeting. Clever.

http://www.fia.com/news/fia-world-rally-championship-0

smsgrafica

5th November 2014, 18:45

My solution: all WRC2 first, then WRC with order decided after qualifying like last year.

tommeke_B

5th November 2014, 18:52

My solution: all WRC2 first, then WRC with order decided after qualifying like last year.

Won't happen, too much chance of having stages being cancelled for WRC-crews. ;) For gravel rallies I liked the system with QS and reversed order, wondering why it has to be changed...

smsgrafica

5th November 2014, 20:10

Won't happen, too much chance of having stages being cancelled for WRC-crews. ;)

How many stages were cancelled because of WRC2? I don't think it would be such a big problem...

For gravel rallies I liked the system with QS and reversed order, wondering why it has to be changed...

Ogier won too easily, that's the reason they changed it.

dodge33cymru

5th November 2014, 20:12

Yeah, qualifying stage was great, such a pity it got canned in the ongoing quest for taking away any incentive for development.

Still, it's much better than the shootout, but that makes me wonder if they were pulling an Ecclestone/Moseley stunt of suggesting something ridiculous in order to make the thing they actually want seem like a 'compromise' instead of the unsporting decision it actually is.

Also seems a bit daft that 3 of the last 5 events are tarmac-based, so the disadvantage of running first is minimised, if not reversed.

smsgrafica

5th November 2014, 20:25

QS could have been televised, just like in Formula 1.

If they want to make it more appealing for the TV, the rally should be divided on 3 days:

Day 1 (Friday): Qualifying, starting with Championship order, with top 5 getting 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1 point

Day 2 (Saturday): Part 1 of the rally, with 150km on 2 SS each run twice (SS1 and SS4 live on TV) and daily winner

Day 3 (Sunday): Part 2 of the rally, with 150km on 2 SS each run twice (SS1 and SS4 live on TV) and daily winner (reversed order starting list, taken from Day 1 results)

Overall winner is the driver who has better combined time.

Full points for every classification, so you can get max 80 points per event.

Franky

5th November 2014, 20:26

My solution: all WRC2 first, then WRC with order decided after qualifying like last year.

And penalize the feeder series guys? It would be fairer if the championship order is used on leg 1 and for the rest of the legs rally overall standings would serve as the basis for starting order.

In rallying you can't give everyone the same conditions, not on gravel nor tarmac.

Franky

5th November 2014, 20:28

AndyRAC

5th November 2014, 20:46

A gimmick - nearly all Motorsport series have them; not that it makes it right. The organisers/ promoters arent confident enough in their product to let the best driver keep winning - meaning people lose interest. This is a World Series, not the local club/ national series; really, it has no place in the WRC. Another example of 'dumbing down'.

tommeke_B

5th November 2014, 21:43

How many stages were cancelled because of WRC2? I don't think it would be such a big problem...
The first I can think of is the 60km long stage in Sardinia, cancelled after the crash of Al-Rahji. Also letting WRC2 cars start first could cause huge traffic problems, as all spectators would leave the stage at the very same moment (after last WRC car) to go to the next stage, while they now stay for at least some WRC2-drivers. This issue could be bigger than you may think, especially for events like Finland and Germany, with lots of spectators.

dodge33cymru

5th November 2014, 22:09

Qualifying for WRC2/3 too? So same boat as ERC for those guys?

In this hypothetical situation that's never going to happen, I mean.

We're more likely to see WRC become a 1 hour cone slalom before the current promoters would bring back qualifying.

denkimi

6th November 2014, 00:44

So, you just want the best driver/car to be penalized for being better than the rest? That's a competition and the best should win, not the mediocre one.
but should it be the best car, or the best driver?
if you look at the current situation, the only way to win a rally is to drive for volkswagen motorsport I, or wait for them to both crash out. making the cars more equal on pace would be a great improvement for the sport.

RAS007

6th November 2014, 05:52

Bruce D

6th November 2014, 09:24

So... You don't understand that somebody who was great in one thing 6 (!) years ago isn't so great in something completely different now?

I see your point but I'm not talking about his speed, it's more his ability to be consistent. I've been involved in rallying for 30 years and one thing is for sure you don't become a winner on just speed alone but on consistency as well.

While the two categories are completely different and I totally agree with other responses about F1 being the same old same old lap after lap, I would have thought that the mental approach of being consistent would have carried over.

smsgrafica

6th November 2014, 10:37

but should it be the best car, or the best driver?
if you look at the current situation, the only way to win a rally is to drive for volkswagen motorsport I, or wait for them to both crash out. making the cars more equal on pace would be a great improvement for the sport.

Well, that's another problem to tackle. But as of now, there's fewer possibilities that the best driver wins, than before.

You are right in saying the cars should be more equally matched. Organizers should make stricter rules on machines, but not penalize drivers for being better than others.

Right now they are only interested in having more TV exposure and gaining more casual fans, than making for a fairer competition between drivers.

Mintexmemory

6th November 2014, 10:39

The first I can think of is the 60km long stage in Sardinia, cancelled after the crash of Al-Rahji. Also letting WRC2 cars start first could cause huge traffic problems, as all spectators would leave the stage at the very same moment (after last WRC car) to go to the next stage, while they now stay for at least some WRC2-drivers. This issue could be bigger than you may think, especially for events like Finland and Germany, with lots of spectators.

Ok that's a one-off. The second run of Col de Turini was ruined by the first WRC car through, so reversed order can end up with the rich but inexperienced screwing up in the most difficult conditions

denkimi

6th November 2014, 11:26

what i don't understand: there are dozens of cars before the first course-car, so how is sweeping still a problem? shouldn't it be almost clean after the 0-car?

noel157

6th November 2014, 11:28

Good interview with Meeke and some thought on "sprint" WRC events, how driving has changed etc.

http://api.app.evo.co.uk/editions/uk.co.dennis.evo.203_10/data/4895_20d6b2da7e604ceb01ee9db3569a948a/web.html

tommeke_B

6th November 2014, 11:47

what i don't understand: there are dozens of cars before the first course-car, so how is sweeping still a problem? shouldn't it be almost clean after the 0-car?
Because rallycars (especially WRC) take a completely different line than course-cars.

N.O.T

6th November 2014, 12:27

Because rallycars (especially WRC) take a completely different line than course-cars.

and the fact that they carry a little bit more speed and a little bit more torque plays a part i think.... maybe... LOL

tommeke_B

6th November 2014, 12:45

and the fact that they carry a little bit more speed and a little bit more torque plays a part i think.... maybe... LOL
Even if you let Fiesta R2's (DMACK Trophy for example) drive first, the road would still have to be sweeped after course-cars.

Mirek

6th November 2014, 13:15

Ok that's a one-off. The second run of Col de Turini was ruined by the first WRC car through, so reversed order can end up with the rich but inexperienced screwing up in the most difficult conditions

To be fair his gearbox was stuck on 3rd gear. Not easy to play a snow plough with that.

bluuford

6th November 2014, 14:47

Guys.. do not take it so seriously. It is equal to everyone. Every single driver who wants to lead the championship knows that then he has to open the roads as well. Sometimes it is big advantage (tarmac rallies, with dust problem, less rocks on the road or with wet conditions), sometimes disadvantage (dry and loose gravel). And there is not too big advantage between first and second car.. and let me remind you. Second driver on the road is also second in the championship. Becoming World Rally Champion shpuld not be just a walk in the park. You have to be smart, fast and cope with all kind of conditions. If you are able to win, then you are the best. If you are only able to win when you have the best conditions, you are still the best according to the points table. My big respect in 2015 goes to the person who is able to win 2015 wr championship.

Mintexmemory

6th November 2014, 16:33

To be fair his gearbox was stuck on 3rd gear. Not easy to play a snow plough with that.

Of course, I was just making the point whoever goes first on the road is subject to the universal maxim - Contingit stercore ;)

stefanvv

6th November 2014, 16:41