Mobile phones & tablets thread [Archive] - Page 9

Malbec

27th September 2012, 21:39

I believe it's arrogance on Apple's part. They just didn't realize what an impressive effort Google Maps really is.

As I mentioned on the Olympics thread it is not accurate to give corporate behaviour human attributes. No company let alone Apple would release such poor product wilfully.

The Apple map isn't merely inferior to the Google alternative. Any map or navigation system that wipes entire cities off the map and puts new airports and rivers where they don't belong is unfit for purpose and for release, period.

This points to multiple systems failure within Apple's management. Since their in-house projects are often run very well I suspect its due to a failure to integrate a new partner (Tom-Tom), other companies like BMW similarly have been very good at running in-house projects but have failed spectacularly when working in partnership with other companies such as Rover, Sauber or the Chinese suppliers that are singlehandedly destroying BMW Motorrad's reputation for quality.

Anyway today I saw an iPhone 5 for the first time in the flesh and its very nice, very well made and perfectly sized. Had a look at the HTC One X and S3, both are just too big. The Xperia S and Lumia are about the right size though.

The iPhone 5 is reasonably priced for me, its a free upgrade for the cheapest one. That said playing with it today I was reminded of the Guardian's verdict, its like playing in a wonderful but walled garden and I increasingly prefer Android's freedom. Windows 8 might be interesting but I'll leave it to others to sort out the bugs, if its competitive next time I upgrade I might be tempted but not this time.

Think it'll be Android again for me, probably heading for an Xperia.

Daniel

27th September 2012, 22:45

Ah well, forgot about the Ativ S. Samsung's attempt at Windows Phone 8.

ATIV S - Samsung ATIV (http://www.samsung.com/global/ativ/ativ_s.html#features)

http://mashable.com/2012/08/29/samsung-ativ-s/#84815Side-View

http://4.mshcdn.com/wp-content/gallery/samsung-unveils-first-windows-phone-8-smartphone/ATIV-S-Product-Image-Front-(4).jpg
I had an original Omnia. Fantastic phone which Caroline now uses.

Daniel

27th September 2012, 22:46

The iPhone 5 is reasonably priced for me, its a free upgrade for the cheapest one. That said playing with it today I was reminded of the Guardian's verdict, its like playing in a wonderful but walled garden and I increasingly prefer Android's freedom. Windows 8 might be interesting but I'll leave it to others to sort out the bugs, if its competitive next time I upgrade I might be tempted but not this time.
Just out of curiosity, why the assumption that Wp8 (it's not Windows 8 btw....) will have bugs? WP7 has been very much bug free.

CaptainRaiden

27th September 2012, 22:48

A lot's being made about the usefulness or otherwise of NFC, as hardly any retailers support it, but now that the other half's also got an S3 it suddenly makes sense: we can share apps, links, pictures, files or whatever simply by touching the handsets together. No faffing about with menus or contact lists (and definitely no sodding iTunes), and it's context sensitive to know what you want to share.

I believe you can pay via NFC using Google Wallet already at select locations. It's not big, but it's a good start. Google even lets you know which merchants accept NFC payments around your area if you enter your pin/post code at their site:

In-store ? Google Wallet (http://www.google.com/wallet/how-it-works/in-store.html#merchant-matrix)

And I agree about the NFC file transfer part. It's a wonderful tech to have if your wife or friends also happen to have an S3. It's blazing fast, it's much more secure than bluetooth, and hassle free compared to all other file transfer options.

I suspect it will remain a niche product until it crops up in the iPhone 6 at which point it will suddenly become the iTag, the most magical new invention since the deliberately crippled video calling service Facetime! :p

I think Apple will probably call it iTouch, and then get sued by conservative religious groups.

CaptainRaiden

27th September 2012, 23:16

As I mentioned on the Olympics thread it is not accurate to give corporate behaviour human attributes. No company let alone Apple would release such poor product wilfully.

The Apple map isn't merely inferior to the Google alternative. Any map or navigation system that wipes entire cities off the map and puts new airports and rivers where they don't belong is unfit for purpose and for release, period.

I assumed arrogance, because I read in some report that Apple ended their contract with Google a full year before it was about to expire, and then jumped into developing their own maps without all the necessary data that Google has painstakingly spent years gathering. Google Maps are the undisputed leader in the world by a fair margin, and anything else was always gonna be a step down, and a company like Apple should have at least thought twice before implementing a new maps app from the ground up. That is either overconfidence in their abilities or arrogance.

Apple are now asking for patience from their users as they sort out their epic fail, pleading their users to use the maps more and more, so that they gather data. But who actually is willing to jump off a cliff? The rate of development is gonna be even slower for Apple, because Google has a MUCH larger pool of users to build their maps data with (Android OS' world market share is over 60%) and Apple simply doesn't have that luxury. TomTom has the data, but they're still lagging behind Google massively in that department.

Anyway today I saw an iPhone 5 for the first time in the flesh and its very nice, very well made and perfectly sized. Had a look at the HTC One X and S3, both are just too big. The Xperia S and Lumia are about the right size though.

I wanted to retort to your previous post regarding the size as well, but forgot. I honestly haven't had a single problem with the size of an S3 pretty much ever. You'd have to be a really short guy wearing insanely tight pants for the S3 to be such a big issue. I'm medium built and I've carried it in the front pockets of a slim fit jeans to casual or work pants, even in beach shorts, and never once felt it to be too big. But well, to each his own.

J4MIE

28th September 2012, 00:32

I used Apple Maps sat nab in action for the first time today after I'd taken a wrong turn and got lost in Durham, so did a search to get me from my current location to Tesco- as you do.

I thought the directions and guidance was very clear and much improved over Google Maps where the instructions wouldn't keep up and I'd have to look at the route to follow it when driving.

However, as I turned into the road which was the exit for buses from Durham bus station, I wasn't so sure. Massive fail......

Mark

28th September 2012, 08:44

Mark

28th September 2012, 08:45

Daniel

28th September 2012, 08:52

My Mother-in-law is wanting a new phone - to purchase outright budget £150-£200. She doesn't need much, something to make calls, text, occasionally email and occasionally web. Any recommendations? (Obviously iPhone is too expensive here)

Lumia 710 -> Hot UK Deals - Search Result (http://www.hotukdeals.com/search?action=search&keywords=lumia+710) or Lumia 800 -> Hot UK Deals - Search Result (http://www.hotukdeals.com/search?action=search&keywords=lumia+800) Lumia 800 is obviously the nicer feeling phone, but the 710 has the same processor and innards (aside from the screen)

pino

28th September 2012, 09:49

BleAivano

28th September 2012, 11:12

My Mother-in-law is wanting a new phone - to purchase outright budget £150-£200. She doesn't need much, something to make calls, text, occasionally email and occasionally web. Any recommendations? (Obviously iPhone is too expensive here)

Perhaps a SE Xperia Ray or a SE Xperia Mini?

The first one is around £200 and the latter one is around £130

CaptainRaiden

28th September 2012, 12:39

My Mother-in-law is wanting a new phone - to purchase outright budget £150-£200. She doesn't need much, something to make calls, text, occasionally email and occasionally web. Any recommendations? (Obviously iPhone is too expensive here)

For that budget, you cannot really go wrong with some of those Nokias, Xperias, and even the Galaxy S. With a bit more money, you can get a Galaxy S2, which is a powerhouse and at least future proof for the next couple of years. I believe I saw a Galaxy S2 with 270 pounds on Amazon.

iPhone 4 is still too expensive (300+ pounds) and too dated at this point to be honest.

One interesting choice is the Galaxy i5500: Samsung I5500 Galaxy Europa - Android: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-I5500-Galaxy-Europa-Android/dp/B0043VTBD4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348831941&sr=8-1)

It's only 73 pounds, runs Android 2.2 and has iPhone 4 comparable hardware. It has Wi-Fi and Opera mini, Gmail and K9-Mail run smooth, even runs Youtube smoothly in wi-fi zones. One of my younger cousins was using this for a while, and as long as you don't install too many apps, no widgets, it's smooth as hell. Small enough to fit comfortably in the pocket, and does all the things your mother-in-law wants to do.

CaptainRaiden

28th September 2012, 12:40

You can share data between iPhone now just as easily. Its a new feature of iOS 6.

And what feature is that?

CaptainRaiden

28th September 2012, 12:43

However, as I turned into the road which was the exit for buses from Durham bus station, I wasn't so sure. Massive fail......

:p

I came across the below pic this morning that I think people might find amusing, fans and non-fans alike. It's a collection of pictures demonstrating the many "features" of Apple maps.

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5419582_700b.jpg

BleAivano

28th September 2012, 13:05

CaptainRaiden

28th September 2012, 13:20

correct view of the building that isn't a Burger King restaurant but a church called Gustav Vasa Kyrka: Odengatan, Stockholm, Sverige - Google Maps (http://goo.gl/maps/SbscG)

a few more errors:
http://www.idg.se/polopoly_fs/1.467515!imageManager/2092327277.png
http://mobil.hd.se/multimedia/dynamic/00726/karta_726097e.jpg
http://www.svt.se/cachable_image/1348238579/svts/article308172.svt/ALTERNATES/large/berlin.jpg
http://www.svt.se/cachable_image/1348238539/svts/article308177.svt/ALTERNATES/large/sanfran.jpg

:laugh:

Well, for 4S users with iOS 5, especially ones depending heavily on Maps on a daily basis, the only wise decision would have been to not update to iOS 6 until Apple sort out their craptastic new offering, because there's nothing really so new and innovative that you can't live without. But well, I'm guessing too late...

Dave B

28th September 2012, 13:26

You can share data between iPhone now just as easily. Its a new feature of iOS 6.
Can you explain how an iPhone can share a music track, contact, or app (etc) with one single confirmation keypress and not looking up the recipient from a contact list? The hardware simply doesn't enable it as far as I can tell.

pino

28th September 2012, 15:16

Off-topic :p : I have just purchased the new ear pods and must say that not only they are much more comfortable but the sound has improved a lot, lot and lot :up: so if you are a snob Apple user and music addict you should get them too ;)

Mark

28th September 2012, 15:24

Boss has got his iPhone 5 today, looks nice but very similar to the old one. Screen clarity and colour is much improved. Haven't tried the ear phones (my iPhone earphones are still in their packet!) but I'm told they are excellent too.

race aficionado

28th September 2012, 17:21

Just saw this ....

http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/28/technology/apple-maps-apology/?iphoneemail

Mark, Pino: I have not upgraded my 4s yet because of the map issue. What other goodies did you get if you upgraded the operating system?

CaptainRaiden

28th September 2012, 19:28

You can share photos and video but not music due to Apple not wanting music readily shared without people paying for it. I've never wanted to share my music with others. You can share contacts and always have been able to do so by sending a business card style message. If you have an app on your iPhone the chances are the other iPhone user can download it themselves from the app store, so sharing is not really needed. If I had spent 3 or 4 quid on an app, I wouldn't wish to give it to somebody for free anyway. That's just me though maybe? :)

Henners, I don't think you really have a grasp of how NFC file transfer works. Probably this video gives you a better idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y8qeeBvWiU

It transferred a 17 MB video file in maximum 3 seconds.

iPhone 5 doesn't have the NFC tech, so the first option is obviously not possible.

Does the iOS 6 have Wi-Fi direct?

CaptainRaiden

28th September 2012, 19:29

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d474uOl0ol8

CaptainRaiden

28th September 2012, 19:36

A recent experience has me puzzled. Hopefully some of the Apple users here can enlighten me.

Why can't Apple provide a standard mini-USB charging port on their phones? Why does it have to be these overly complicated connectors?

We were at the beach recently, and one of my friends forgot his iPhone charger back home. The rest of us had different phones, but a lot of mini USB chargers, which obviously he couldn't use, so he had to keep his phone switched off until he found a charger. Which was difficult to find, because surprisingly enough there weren't any genuine Apple stores nearby. So, he bought a cheap, fake one, which, surprise-surprise, wouldn't charge the phone properly. So, he couldn't use his phone all the while he was there, until he flew back home.

Now they have the lightning connector which has some authentication chip inside, which makes it even harder to find a cheaper alternative.

Why can't Apple embrace mini-USBs, and why do you have to install iTunes on every freakin computer to be able to transfer files?

Shouldn't it be about making things easier for people?

CaptainRaiden

28th September 2012, 19:38

I did understand how NFC works and have seen the first video before. Its impressive if you wish to transfer files that way. The largest video I have transferred is about 3mb and if I need to share it I do it over Whatsapp anyway. We all have different needs on mobiles and its clear reading this.

What's the new sharing feature on iOS 6 that you mentioned before?

henners88

28th September 2012, 19:44

Apple have never used the same ports as anybody else as far as I am aware. I know it would never happen but its a shame other manufacturers can't use Apples lightning port as its far better designed than MicroUSB IMO.

Now they have the lightning connector which has some authentication chip inside, which makes it even harder to find a cheaper alternative.
This has already been overcome and alternatives are already being manufactured. It was never going to be rocket science copying the chip. Adaptors and leads are being sold around £4.95.

Why can't Apple embrace mini-USBs, and why do you have to install iTunes on every freakin computer to be able to transfer files?
You don't even need a computer any more to transfer files from one device to another. They abandoned this some time ago.

BleAivano

28th September 2012, 20:59

CaptainRaiden

28th September 2012, 21:48

Captain, most modern phones uses micro-usb not mini-usb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#Mini_and_Micro_connectors). ;)

Oops, yes, you're right. It's late and I'm tired. :D

Dave B

29th September 2012, 07:48

You can share photos and video but not music due to Apple not wanting music readily shared without people paying for it.
Hang on, it's my music - why should it be up to my hardware provider to grant me permission to share it? That's a great example of the control freakery that puts so many people off.

You can share contacts and always have been able to do so by sending a business card style message.
Yes, and you've been able to do this on dumbphones for two decades. The difference is that you claimed the iPhone supports a way of mimicking NFC transfer, ie without going through menus and finding the relevant contact. I have yet to hear an explanation of how his is achieved.

If you have an app on your iPhone the chances are the other iPhone user can download it themselves from the app store, so sharing is not really needed. If I had spent 3 or 4 quid on an app, I wouldn't wish to give it to somebody for free anyway. That's just me though maybe? :)
Now I think you're deliberately misunderstanding for comic effect.

Daniel

29th September 2012, 10:32

So sorry to hear that Henners.

pino

29th September 2012, 12:07

Very sorry to hear that too henners, hopefully everything will be better very soon. Wish all the best to you and your Family mate :up:

Malbec

29th September 2012, 15:11

Henners, my condolences to you and your wife, very sorry to hear the kind of news noone ever wants to hear. Hope she's ok.

Mark

29th September 2012, 16:36

Sorry to hear that :( All our thoughts are with you both.

Dave B

29th September 2012, 19:10

Sorry henners and genuine apologies if I wound you up. I'm lost for words. Just take care of yourself and your wife. All the best.

airshifter

29th September 2012, 19:13

Sorry to hear the unfortunate news Henners. Having lost a child that was only a couple months old I do understand how hard it can be. Use whatever phone you choose to reach out to your closest friends and family, as they are the ones that can best help you through times like this.

And I agree completely, it's not worth the frustrations of people insulting each other and questioning something as simple as a phone choice. We all make thousands of different choices on things every day, and most of them don't fall into such critical discussion. Life is too short for such things.

race aficionado

29th September 2012, 19:15

My thoughts are also with you and your wife henners.
:(

Jag_Warrior

29th September 2012, 19:49

Hi, Henners. I'd kind of checked out of this thread, but I'm glad that I looked in today. I wish you and your wife all the best and I'm so sorry to hear about this.

D-Type

29th September 2012, 19:58

Hi, Henners. I'd kind of checked out of this thread, but I'm glad that I looked in today. I wish you and your wife all the best and I'm so sorry to hear about this.
Seconded.
That says exactly what I was trying to put into words.

CaptainRaiden

30th September 2012, 02:07

My sincere condolences to you and your wife, henners. Even though I don't like to share my personal info here, I have had a similar experience, and I know that feeling. Hang in there, it will get better eventually...

GravettFan99

30th September 2012, 07:00

Extremely sorry to hear of this occurance henners, I can not imagine the pain inflicted from such an event. :( :( :( That must be the worst thing possible to have happened to you, nobody should have to ever go through such a thing. I hope your problems do not go any further than that, and that you can rebound from this and continue to enjoy life. ;)

Mark

30th September 2012, 09:20

Just noticed something. If you look at a work out on Endomondo it works fine using iPhone. However not only can you view maps. Streetview works too! Holy workarounds batman!

J4MIE

30th September 2012, 11:17

Sorry to hear your news Henners, ditto the above sentiments :(

Mark, I can't get street view in Endomondo but I have installed it again on my new phone yesterday so maybe that's switched it to Apple Maps?

Daniel

30th September 2012, 13:46

Henners, you have nothing to be apologetic for as far as I can see. So you made it sound like the iPhone had some sort of NFC type of way of sharing content. Who gives a f***?

Mark

30th September 2012, 16:32

J4MIE I mean the website via Safari. Not the app

J4MIE

30th September 2012, 17:11

Google Maps and Street View for non-flash devices, iPad, iPhone (http://www.viewstreetnoflash.com)

Mark

30th September 2012, 17:20

Brilliant. Thanks!

Mark

30th September 2012, 20:37

I've noticed that if you have a link from streetview on a PC then open it on the iPhone then street view will open full screen as good as the previous app!

Just a pity they don't have this in the maps for mobile.

BleAivano

1st October 2012, 15:51

Android Fragmentation VS Apple iOS 6 VS Gingerbread - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buGpyCgqmfE)

Andrewmcm

1st October 2012, 18:38

His definition of fragmentation leaves a lot to be desired.

Malbec

3rd October 2012, 17:41

Finally received my new iPhone 5 :)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nice. Whats it like to set up from the point of an Android user? Can you import google contacts?

DonJippo

4th October 2012, 14:48

Finnish mobile startup Jolla has announced it will be unveiling its forthcoming MeeGo-based mobile OS — codenamed Sailfish — at an event in Finland next month.

Jolla Confirms It Will Unveil Sailfish MeeGo-Based OS Next Month | TechCrunch (http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/04/jolla-confirms-it-will-unveil-sailfish-meego-based-os-next-month/)

Daniel

4th October 2012, 21:51

Its very easy to set up and I've synced my Facebook and gmail contacts easily too... My wife and I went to the apple store this evening as her phone had a little knock in the top straight out of the box. She's had it since launch and they gave her a new iPhone no questions asked.

and again I will point out that Windows Phone has done both of these things since launch ;)

Daniel

4th October 2012, 22:12

This isn't new to the iPhone either Daniel, I was just commenting on my experience as a new user. One thing Apple does have that many other manufacturers lack and that is their good customer service. Then again you expect it for the price. :)

I know, but I'm just trying to make the point that Windows Phone had Facebook integration into the OS almost 2 years ago :) I've thankfully not needed to test any companies customer service for a good couple of years, but back in the day Nokia were pretty good :)

sjhon

5th October 2012, 08:00

first of all i would liked to tell you that apple has doing great job...i phone 5 is very powerfull AT&T mobile,the image processing is very heavy.........ipad also have .

donKey jote

5th October 2012, 08:41

Really? :andrea:

BleAivano

5th October 2012, 10:59

I know, but I'm just trying to make the point that Windows Phone had Facebook integration into the OS almost 2 years ago :) I've thankfully not needed to test any companies customer service for a good couple of years, but back in the day Nokia were pretty good :)

My HTC Desire is 3 years old and it had FB already back then when i bought it.

Also HTC just releases an upgraded version of the One X, called One X+ which have a faster CPU,
larger battery and doubled sized storage space which is now 64GB.

I Still don't like that HTC have gone down the Iphone road with non exchangeable battery and non extendible storage (although 64b should be enough).

BleAivano

5th October 2012, 12:03

Do you guys not think that maybe Apple have gone down this route of integrating Facebook because it has been so successfull on other operating systems? Many of Apple's software ideas have been copied on Android (and vice versa), so why is it out of the realms of possibility that maybe it can work the other way round? In this industry they take influence off each other, and with some many silly patent battles going on, this is obvious I would have thought.

Its not about that Henners, but mere about how apple and its followers (ajfåns) constantly talking about as it was something new in the world of smartphones.
This is just anothe case of Apple generally claiming that they invented / were first with features and functions.

Pretty much like how the Chinese communist party constantly claims that every invention was invented in china.

Mark

5th October 2012, 12:57

Must we get into this all the time - Oh I just did XZY on my CoolDevice.

Hey - OldDevice was doing that in 1952, so you can stick your CoolDevice up your....

Malbec

5th October 2012, 13:09

Its not about that Henners, but mere about how apple and its followers (ajfåns) constantly talking about as it was something new in the world of smartphones.
This is just anothe case of Apple generally claiming that they invented / were first with features and functions.

Pretty much like how the Chinese communist party constantly claims that every invention was invented in china.

No, he was responding to a specific question from me regarding whether it was easy to import contacts for someone who previously used an Android phone.

If this illustrates anything, its the way in which you interprete just about anything involving Apple in a negative light. I have no idea when Apple started 'integrating' (whatever that means) facebook but its irrelevant to the question I asked Henners and his response.

Malbec

6th October 2012, 10:07

Obviously the iPhone I have is going to be a lot faster than a 18 month old HTC so this is to be taken into account too. All round so far I am able to report back in a positive light Malbec and would highly recommend a switch, but have to say the Galaxy S3 is also a stunning phone as an alternative. I'm enjoying it and feel I made the right choice :)

Thanks, I appreciate hearing about your experiences.

Right now top of my list is the new HTC One X plus which seems to cover the shortfalls of its predecessor that I was worried about. The only concern is that the only way I get my current sensation to improve its performance is by physically removing and reinstalling the battery every few days, this wouldn't be possible with the new HTC as the battery is fixed but then again I shouldn't encounter the same performance issues (fingers crossed).

The Xperia T is next on the list with the iPhone 5 a distant third at the moment. I go through phases when the iPhone sounds like exactly what I want then at other times I don't fancy it at all....

Malbec

6th October 2012, 10:34

That's cool ��
I did a full factory reset on my HTC Incredible S this morning and powered it back up and the lag appears to have reduced. Its completely app free though so its going to be. I'm heading into Cardiff today to trade it in hopefully if they give me a good price. Anywhere between 90 and 120 quid will be good. Have you tried a reset on your Sensation to see if anything improves?

Yes I have, it was the first thing I did. Helped a little but not significantly and the lag worsens after 2 or 3 days but reduces if I take the battery out. Merely switching off/on never worked.

Considered installing a cyanogenmod OS but my model of sensation isn't unlocked so couldn't. Grrr

ioan

6th October 2012, 13:47

EU laws say handsets shall be unlocked after as little as 6 months into your contract.
Not sure EU laws apply in the UK though! :p

Malbec

6th October 2012, 14:19

EU laws say handsets shall be unlocked after as little as 6 months into your contract.
Not sure EU laws apply in the UK though! :p

My wife gave her old iPhone to her father and contacted O2 through the website requesting her phone be unlocked. They did it within a couple of hours and send a text message to confirm it had been completed. Not sure if this is a service for all phones or whether all providers do this however. Might be worth looking into this Malbec but then again you seem pretty savvy with this sort of thing and no doubt you've looked into this :)

Sorry I didn't mean network unlock, I meant a bootloader unlock.

CaptainRaiden

6th October 2012, 15:15

Well, wife's colleague's son dropped my S3 from shoulder height, like a toy, onto hard concrete (why that wretched little %@#&! :mad: ). Anywhoo, it landed face first, and since I am such a daredevil, I didn't have a protective cover on it. :)

Now I have a cracked screen at the top left side, and two hairline cracks across the screen from top to bottom. The below pic is not of my phone, but it gives an idea of the crack on my screen:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TVrJs30PHcs/UDD4RCc86MI/AAAAAAAABR4/NsJN0k6Ynt4/s1600/broken+galaxy.JPG

The phone still works fine, and so I asked the Samsung guys if I could only get the front glass screen changed. They said no. Cost estimate for changing the screen + digitizer is around $210.

Since the phone was bought in Romania, and I have to live here for the time being, I wrote to their Samsung rep about warranty. They said because of physical damage, the warranty is now void, even if I pay for it and get it repaired at the authorized repair center. :confused:

I also wrote to the UK rep, who said that the physical damage won't void warranty as long as I get it repaired by them. I am inclined to believe this second guy as this is how things work in India as well. If you have physical damage and you get the gadget repaired at the authorized repair center, the warranty still remains.

Well, moral of the story. No matter how much they beg, don't give your smartphones to those little......precious bundles of joy.

Bagwan

6th October 2012, 15:38

Henners , I'm a little late expressing my condolences , but I thought I'd do so anyway .
My wife and I went through three miscarriages , and they suck .
The good news is , though , that my son has just come home from college for thanksgiving .

He's a gift , and worth what we went through .

On the phone front , to keep this on topic , I have a short story .

Being a firmly entrenched Luddite , up until just a short time ago , I had an old Samsung flip phone , worthy of Captain Kirk .
When my lad went off to school , it came time to be connected to him , electronically .

It was a huge hassle , which I won't bother going into , but we got two Blackberry Curves for nothing on a two-year plan .
Apart from playing Tetris a few times , and Wordmole very occasionally , I use it as a phone , to call him , or the wife .

Two or three weeks ago , it went missing .
We looked everywhere , about six times , as the replacement was set to cost us $350.00 .

I figured it had slipped out of the pocket , as it's slim and slippery , and since Bell told me it hadn't been used , I figured It was in some ditch somewhere .

Within the time period , it rained , and hard , several times . It even hailed heavily during one downpour .

It was over , I thought . Time to go back to the Samsung , as a new Berry was not in the budget .

It was as I was about to type in "Bell telephone" into Google , when the land line beside me rang .
It was my wife , asking me if I could guess what had just walked into my coffee house .
It was my Blackberry . A neighbour had found it in the grass whilst dog-walking .

Two or three weeks of sitting in the tall grass , getting rained on , and it fired right up . It had a whisp of a little moisture inside the screen for a few hours , until it was fully charged , and is now working like a trooper .

Tough might not have been how I would have described my Berry before , but it is now .

Malbec

6th October 2012, 17:20

Well, moral of the story. No matter how much they beg, don't give your smartphones to those little......precious bundles of joy.

Bad luck CR...

Moral of the story though is to have a proper cover for your phone. Mine has an imitation leather cover front and back and is tough enough to double up as a teething toy for my son (actually its a lot better at that job than it is being a phone) bought for a princely £3-50 on ebay. Explains why you don't have a problem with the size of modern phones though, a similar cover attached to an S3 would make it pretty unusable IMO.

Hope it all gets sorted.

CaptainRaiden

7th October 2012, 12:59

Bad luck CR...

Moral of the story though is to have a proper cover for your phone. Mine has an imitation leather cover front and back and is tough enough to double up as a teething toy for my son (actually its a lot better at that job than it is being a phone) bought for a princely £3-50 on ebay. Explains why you don't have a problem with the size of modern phones though, a similar cover attached to an S3 would make it pretty unusable IMO.

Hope it all gets sorted.

Thanks Malbec. I was looking into buying a cover, even tried some of them, but I guess I bought into Samsung's gorilla glass crap. I dropped my S2 many times and it never cracked, maybe that's why. I even dropped the S3 a couple of times, but mostly in the house on the wooden floor.

As for the phone being too big with the covers on, after trying both flip covers and silicone protective ones, the phone still didn't seem too big and fit fine in the front right pocket of my jeans.

CaptainRaiden

7th October 2012, 13:03

Sorry to hear about your phone Captain, that's gutting :(

I'd probably cry if I smashed it even though its insured lol.

I felt exactly like that, especially after hearing the cost of repairing it.

Well, I'll be buying a cover now FOR SURE. I'm looking at either one of these:

http://static.pcgarage.ro/products/1/5/455919/full/pro-dual-layer-protection-pentru-samsung-galaxy-s3-i9300-c6403240f81d2064f75498b11e2bcaab.jpg

http://static.pcgarage.ro/products/1/4/370647/full/samgsvlfc-black-a0535022386ff194b55a3dfbaaf4adca.jpg

I don't like the look of either one of those. I'm guessing the second one is better for the screen, but it won't protect the sides that well.

CaptainRaiden

7th October 2012, 13:07

Mark

7th October 2012, 13:10

As long as you keep it dry it should be ok to use.

janneppi

7th October 2012, 15:46

The phone is still working fine with two gigantic cracks across the screen, and the spiderweb crack on the top left corner, held together for now with a piece of sellotape.

Am I risking damaging anything inside the phone further, does anybody know? Or is it fine working this way for a while? The screen and digitizer are gonna be changed anyway. I've got to wait until I sort the warranty fiasco out.
My nephew cracked the screen of his ZTE somethinsomething much worse than in the pic you linked a year ago and it's works just fine even if the protective film is pretty much the only thing keeping the screen in place.

Malbec

8th October 2012, 10:42

CR, I'd get something like the second jacket. Mine is similar but with thicker covers and better side protection. At £3-50 you can't go wrong even if you won't be winning any style awards.

China's Huawei and ZTE pose national security threat, says US committee | Technology | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/08/china-huawei-zte-security-threat)

Interesting article especially since Huawei in particular is getting lucrative contracts in the west to sort out mobile phone infrastructure, they are building Britain's 4G network as we speak. Both companies already market mobiles in the west too.

janneppi

8th October 2012, 15:17

Bah, Nokia did that first too. ;)
In the eighties/nineties their weren't allowed to US markets unless they build backdoors for the phone system built in Soviet Russia. It would be fun to know what kind of features KGB wanted for western products. :p

Talking about features, Apple has learned their lesson from previous models, before they weren't that forthcoming to say that the Iphone's warranty is void if used in below freezing temperatures(0C), this time they've complied to Finnish consumer boards advise and made the temperature limit known beforehand. :up:

CaptainRaiden

8th October 2012, 19:07

CR, I'd get something like the second jacket. Mine is similar but with thicker covers and better side protection. At £3-50 you can't go wrong even if you won't be winning any style awards.

I actually bought one today similar to what you've mentioned. It's made of leather and has cushioning. A bit thicker than the official Samsung case because of the cushioning, but still surprisingly fits fine in my jeans pocket. Cost 10 pounds, but almost all GS3 cases are over 10 pounds. The only problem is the hanging flap thingy when it's open, but I guess I'll get used to it after a while.

If it was me I'd definitely go for the first one of the pictures given the option. Never been a fan of putting my phone in a wallet and always choose the slim-est case I can find and clear if possible. If you invest in a good screen protector and choose a case with good corner protection you should be fine. The Samsung S3 and the iPhone 5 are beautiful pieces of product design and shouldn't be hidden too much by clumsy looking cases, even if the design punishes you for accidental handling lol. :)

I actually agree with that, don't like to hide my phones. But well, really can't afford breaking the screen again. :D

CaptainRaiden

8th October 2012, 19:13

I'm thinking of getting a screen protector as well. The S3's screen is already scratch resistant, so not much advantage on that front, but I'm guessing it would still provide some sort of protection towards big scratches or even some shock, preventing the screen cracking perhaps?

YuwteILAgvc

Funny thing is I haven't bought a cover for any smartphone previously in my life, because I never broke one this badly. Now I'm going paranoid and trying to protect the new screen as much as possible. LOL.

Once bitten, twice shy I guess.

CaptainRaiden

8th October 2012, 19:36

The iPhone actually performed pretty good in the drop test but I still won't be taking any chances.

They all perform quite good in drop tests and other tests. But as I have learned, at a huge cost, never to take a chance again.

I saw this video a while ago:

pnwwz0nyOno

And thought well, the S3 can handle small drops easily. I even dropped it inside the house many times, not a scratch. But I guess outside in the real world and on concrete is a different story altogether.

Strange thing is I must have dropped my previous phone, the Galaxy S2, at least 10-15 times on all terrain, even concrete, and it didn't crack. It's still running fine. The S3 cracked the first time it hit concrete. I'm guessing a design flaw, because the screen does look like protruding above the side casing, which is always bad if it falls face first.

CaptainRaiden

8th October 2012, 22:06

CaptainRaiden

8th October 2012, 22:15

If any future warranty is gonna be void anyway, I can try to replace just the front screen glass. Costs just about $20 and Youtube is filled with such DIY videos:

W4Gx5fLy0NQ

Best case scenario: I save $190 and learn something valuable in case the screen cracks again in the future.

Worst case scenario: I mess it up, and even if I do, it's only $20 down the drain, and I can still get the screen and digitizer changed ultimately.

ioan

9th October 2012, 18:18

Talked with another Romanian Samsung rep again, says future warranty will be void even if repaired at the authorized center.

A friend talked and confirmed with the UK Samsung rep, says future warranty continues or remains if repaired at the authorized center.

Another friend talked with the Samsung rep in Mumbai, India, says future warranty remains if repaired at the authorized center.

The last two is how I remember it has been for phones like forever, and how it should be.

Why is it different in Romania? Is it some EU or Romanian specific law I am not aware of? Does anybody know?

They are trying to screw you over in Romania, that's how they do 'business' over there. I am rather sure that the EU laws are more like what they tell you at Samsung UK.
Just send it over to your UK friend to have it serviced there and be done with it.

CaptainRaiden

10th October 2012, 09:22

They are trying to screw you over in Romania, that's how they do 'business' over there. I am rather sure that the EU laws are more like what they tell you at Samsung UK.
Just send it over to your UK friend to have it serviced there and be done with it.

Yep, it is a bit weird. Talked again to some helpful bloke this time and he said he isn't sure about it and will have to ask his colleagues. :confused: - I mean they are the authorized service center. They should be on top of these things!

Sending the phone to UK via courier alone will cost me a fortune. So, I'll get it done in India in December when I go there most probably, unless these guys here figure out the meaning of warranty.

I mean software wise I'm not really concerned, because if there's any software problem, I can root the phone and install a vanilla Android OS anytime. But who wants to lose a 2 year warranty anyway?

CaptainRaiden

10th October 2012, 12:14

20 best mobile phones in the world:

20 best mobile phones in the world today | News | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/20-best-mobile-phones-in-the-world-today-645440)

A well written, detailed guide for people looking to buy a new smartphone on the market.

Personally, I can't comment on the HTC One X and the iPhone 5 because I haven't used them. The S3 has been just fantastic in my experience over the last 3 months (apart from the 2 meter drop on the concrete. :( ).

Mark

11th October 2012, 09:29

Robinho

11th October 2012, 10:43

I am impressed with the apps I have used so far. I've downloaded many of the apps I had on my HTC and they seem to have a different appearance on iOS. IMDB for instance was an app I used an awful lot as I enjoy films and trivia and the Android app is slow and lacking in comparison. It might be partly because of my phone, but more development seems to have gone into it on the iPhone. Tapatalk is an app I paid for on Android and have done so again for iOS for £1.99. Its totally different and much much better now. After 8 months of not being able to quote people in threads when using my old phone, I now can. I know most developers make the majority of their money through iOS because its generally known that iPhone users are more likely to buy apps in any numbers than other providers, but there is a clear difference in quality where apps are concerned. I don't know if Facebook have a better relationship with Apple or not, but I no longer watch that silly loading wheel for 20 seconds and have to put up with crash reports!! lol. Obviously the iPhone I have is going to be a lot faster than a 18 month old HTC so this is to be taken into account too. All round so far I am able to report back in a positive light Malbec and would highly recommend a switch, but have to say the Galaxy S3 is also a stunning phone as an alternative. I'm enjoying it and feel I made the right choice :)

PS: I've got endomondo installed again too Mark and hope the weather is kind this weekend for a cheeky ride :)
I have to say I think most of the gripes you had sound like the old phone, hence my writing and quoting your post on a new HTC via tapatalk, which I've never had a problem with. Therein lies half the problem with android on multiple hardware though, New apps don't always perform as they should on older or lesser powered machines.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

Daniel

11th October 2012, 10:58

Yeah like Tesco where they have plastic models of each of the phones. Ideal to commit to a 2 year contract is that.
I'm happy enough to trust a decent reviewer who does a good video :) The Lumia 800 got praise for its good build quality and already knowing the OS, it was a no-brainer for me :)

Daniel

11th October 2012, 12:19

CaptainRaiden

11th October 2012, 12:20

Samsung Galaxy Note 2 review: Samsung Galaxy Note 2 review | Phone Reviews | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/reviews/phones/mobile-phones/samsung-galaxy-note-2-1093688/review)

http://cdn0.mos.techradar.futurecdn.net///art/mobile_phones/Samsung/GalaxyNote2/1%20Overview%20Design%20Feel/PR%20photos/Samsung%20Galaxy%20Note%20II%20PR%205-900-75.jpg

Looks like a Galaxy S3 on steroids. It's got solid reviews, but I never really got the point of the note. It's too big to be a phone and too small to be a tablet. I'm surprised Samsung sold as many units as they did of the first Note.

Daniel

11th October 2012, 12:21

pino

11th October 2012, 13:16

CaptainRaiden

11th October 2012, 13:48

Help needed from all Samsung users : How do I transfer photos from a Samsung S Advance to a PC ? I've tried to help my brother in law but can only transfer 2 out of more than 500 pics he has on his mobile :s Thanks in advance and greetings from Sanremo :D

It should be pretty straightforward plug and play with the micro-USB to USB cable on Windows 7 or even Win XP.. You don't need any special software either. Win 7 recognizes it and installs it within seconds. You might have to install additional drivers for older MS OS' or on a Mac most probably.

When you connect the phone to the PC, make sure the phone screen is not locked, and if it still doesn't show the phone in "My Computer", then something's either wrong with the phone or the PC. I'd suggest a restart on both devices and try again.

If nothing else works, you can try the Kies software from here: Samsung Galaxy S Advance - SUPPORT | SAMSUNG (http://www.samsung.com/my/consumer/mobile-devices/smartphone/android-os/GT-I9070HKAXME-supportforward)

Although I have never found Samsung phones to be dependent on Kies, usually after installing Kies, when you connect your Samsung phone to the PC, an option pops up on the phone asking you to connect via "Kies or UMS mode". Select UMS mode and then just browse into the phone to where the pics are. Hopefully that helps.

pino

11th October 2012, 15:01

It should be pretty straightforward plug and play with the micro-USB to USB cable on Windows 7 or even Win XP.. You don't need any special software either. Win 7 recognizes it and installs it within seconds. You might have to install additional drivers for older MS OS' or on a Mac most probably.

When you connect the phone to the PC, make sure the phone screen is not locked, and if it still doesn't show the phone in "My Computer", then something's either wrong with the phone or the PC. I'd suggest a restart on both devices and try again.

If nothing else works, you can try the Kies software from here: Samsung Galaxy S Advance - SUPPORT | SAMSUNG (http://www.samsung.com/my/consumer/mobile-devices/smartphone/android-os/GT-I9070HKAXME-supportforward)

Although I have never found Samsung phones to be dependent on Kies, usually after installing Kies, when you connect your Samsung phone to the PC, an option pops up on the phone asking you to connect via "Kies or UMS mode". Select UMS mode and then just browse into the phone to where the pics are. Hopefully that helps.

Thanks I will try that although your link doesn't work ;)

CaptainRaiden

11th October 2012, 21:35

With smartphone preferences being so different from person to person, my advice would be to anybody to go into a phone shop and have a good play with the top phones and see which one they like the best. They are all so close at the top end I think any of them will stand up to the job personally.

Can you realistically look through 20 smartphones in a showroom though? Yeah sure, if you wanna get a feel of the interface, it's all good, but what if you wanna know more about the features? Half of the "experts" in those phone showrooms can only tell you the most basic of things, which most of the times are affected by personal bias.

IMO articles like those, with detailed info, video reviews, comparisons etc. are a great help for people wanting to know a bit more about their next purchase.

In the end none of these reviews will sway anybody's opinion to a great extent, it's just extra information. If somebody's heart is set on buying a turd, they will ultimately buy that turd.

CaptainRaiden

11th October 2012, 21:36

Thanks I will try that although your link doesn't work ;)

Eh? Works here. Try this one then: http://www.samsung.com/my/support/usefulsoftware/KIES/JSP

BleAivano

11th October 2012, 22:40

Can you realistically look through 20 smartphones in a showroom though? Yeah sure, if you wanna get a feel of the interface, it's all good, but what if you wanna know more about the features? Half of the "experts" in those phone showrooms can only tell you the most basic of things, which most of the times are affected by personal bias.

IMO articles like those, with detailed info, video reviews, comparisons etc. are a great help for people wanting to know a bit more about their next purchase.

In the end none of these reviews will sway anybody's opinion to a great extent, it's just extra information. If somebody's heart is set on buying a turd, they will ultimately buy that turd.

Imo articles like the one you linked to on techradar as well as price/product comparison sites like the Swedish site Prisjakt.nu (http://www.prisjakt.nu/)
is a very good first step to narrow down the selection to maybe 3-5 phones that you can try out at the local store.

Btw found an article at the Guardian.co.uk about a French woman who received a quite large phone bill when she terminated her phone account.

The French phone operator had sent her a bill for the small amount of €11,721,000,000,000,000 which is 1 billion millions. or 11,72 Quadrillions (Billiard/Biljard) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_large_numbers)
for some parts of Europe). the actual correct size of her debt was 117 Euros. French phone company rings up a bill of (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/oct/11/french-phone-bill)

ioan

11th October 2012, 23:26

Looks like a Galaxy S3 on steroids. It's got solid reviews, but I never really got the point of the note. It's too big to be a phone and too small to be a tablet. I'm surprised Samsung sold as many units as they did of the first Note.

Looks like it doesn't need you to understand its use in order to be a hit. ;)

ioan

11th October 2012, 23:27

Help needed from all Samsung users : How do I transfer photos from a Samsung S Advance to a PC ? I've tried to help my brother in law but can only transfer 2 out of more than 500 pics he has on his mobile :s Thanks in advance and greetings from Sanremo :D

Stop thinking like an iPhone user it will make everything simple! :p ;)
You don't need iTunes, just a USB cable.

ioan

11th October 2012, 23:30

Btw found an article at the Guardian.co.uk about a French woman who received a quite large phone bill when she terminated her phone account.

The French phone operator had sent her a bill for the small amount of €11,721,000,000,000,000 which is 1 billion millions. or 11,72 Quadrillions (Billiard/Biljard) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_large_numbers)
for some parts of Europe). the actual correct size of her debt was 117 Euros. French phone company rings up a bill of (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/oct/11/french-phone-bill)

I bet her bank account manager had a heart attack when she/he tried to read the sum the first time! :D

wedge

12th October 2012, 16:21

Can I watch subtitled films on tablets ie. support .srt files?

BleAivano

12th October 2012, 17:08

Can I watch subtitled films on tablets ie. support .srt files?

yes. For android there are several srt compatible media players. Most likely the same goes for ios tablets.

Top 5 Video Player apps for Android Mobile Phone and Tablet in 2011 - Android Circle
http://pinappu.hubpages.com/hub/10-Best-Android-Video-Movie-Player-Apps-for-Free-2012 (http://android-circle.blogspot.se/2011/12/top-5-video-player-apps-for-android.html)
Choosing the Best Video Player for Your Device | Android.AppStorm (http://android.appstorm.net/roundups/entertainment/choosing-the-best-video-player-for-your-device/)

schmenke

12th October 2012, 17:33

CaptainRaiden

12th October 2012, 18:33

Imo articles like the one you linked to on techradar as well as price/product comparison sites like the Swedish site Prisjakt.nu (http://www.prisjakt.nu/)
is a very good first step to narrow down the selection to maybe 3-5 phones that you can try out at the local store.

Couldn't agree more. :up:

CaptainRaiden

12th October 2012, 18:35

Can I watch subtitled films on tablets ie. support .srt files?

Yep. BS Player works great for this. Make sure the .AVI and .SRT files are in the same folder and have the exact same name. It automatically pulls it as the subtitle just like VLC player does on the PC.

CaptainRaiden

12th October 2012, 18:41

Apologies for diverting from the current riveting line of conversation, but I have a somewhat daft question for which I assume a response is readily available in this thread...

Can an Apple device (e.g. iPhone) be used as a wifi hotspot router for a non-Apple device (e.g. Samsung tablet)? In other words, can I tether a Samsung tablet to an Apple device :?:

Once a device is tethered as a wi-fi hotspot, it behaves exactly like your usual wi-fi router. I don't think it matters what company's device you use as long as you enter the correct network key.

For example, I have tethered my Galaxy S3 as a wi-fi hotspot and connected my Dell laptop, wife's Galaxy S2 and my friend's iPhone 4S. I believe even more than 6 devices is not a problem.

Mark

12th October 2012, 19:39

Yes it's just standard wifi. It also works over the wire as I've used my iPhone as an Internet connection for my PC!

janneppi

12th October 2012, 19:45

On Tuesday our customer came to give us some information about a pdm system they want us to use. Of course I had forgot our network doesn't have outside access for visitors, fortunately my colleague had his own Samsung something and created wifi-connection using Joiku Spot for the visitor so he could give us the presentation. :)

ioan

12th October 2012, 22:47

My BB9900 had some strange issues today, it kept restarting every 10 minutes so I had to bring it in for servicing, so they gave me a BB9860 and man I hate this device with no keyboard and it's mid size touchscreen. Typing an email takes about 10 times longer then on a BB with keypad. Maybe my finger tips are too big but I can't see myself surviving next week with this thing.

ioan

13th October 2012, 22:17

With BB seems to be a question of luck nowadays.
I had the old bold BB 9000 for 2 years with one keypad problem, no other issues.
The 9900 worked fine for 11 months then it just went crazy. It's a company phone so it will be repaired or exchanged.
I've had 2 days with the 9860, only touch input, and it's driving me mad. Typing on it is a nightmare without use of a stylus, I am beginning to think that my colleagues who like this model don't really use it for typing emails on it, just for calls.
The company is thinking about moving away from BB and that will be hard time for those like me who use the BB intensively to answer emails when traveling.

Dave B

14th October 2012, 06:42

Carphone Warehouse, Phones 4 U, O2, Orange, T-Mobile, Three, Vodafone etc etc all have stores nationwide with fully working models that people can go in and play with.
And then, if you're like me, go home and order online and save £50 on the handset, £5 a month on the contract, get more inclusive data, and receive £70 cashback. Save *that* High Street, Portas!

Mark

14th October 2012, 09:29

ioan

14th October 2012, 10:16

I went from a phone with a physical keyboard to an iPhone and I was wary it would mean it being harder to type out the likes of this post. But I needn't have been worried because a least in landscape mode it's at least as fast as my N97 and probably faster. Also the OS corrects most of the mistypes I make so there's much less deleting than even with a desktop keyboard!

The problem is that I mostly type technical emails and the phone's auto correct wants to write words that have nothing to do with what I need to type, in this case a keypad is so much better with turned off spellchecker.

BleAivano

14th October 2012, 11:07

Dave B

14th October 2012, 11:59

The problem is that I mostly type technical emails and the phone's auto correct wants to write words that have nothing to do with what I need to type, in this case a keypad is so much better with turned off spellchecker.
You can add technical words to the dictionary. When I upgraded I exported my user dictionary and it made amusing reading what with all the proper nouns and unrepeatable slang I'd added!

GridGirl

14th October 2012, 12:05

We managed to partially kill an iPhone 4S last week when it got wet. The screen shows no picture whatsoever but if you call the phone and press on the screen where you would normally answer it will pick up the call. Endomono which was tracking us continued to work and it's beeping for text messages and emails. The alarm even goes off as it should. Hopefully a new screen at about £25 should fix it. More annoyingly is that 99% of the time when we go out walking, hiking or cycling the phone was put in a waterproof case. The one time you forget to do that it gets wet and you break it. :(

I have a BB as a work phone. It's pants!

Mark

14th October 2012, 15:50

That explains the 65 mile walk then!

GridGirl

14th October 2012, 18:10

Yeah, it was only a 3 mile walk. Doh! With a new screen it should be as good as new. :)

ioan

14th October 2012, 21:10

turn off the auto-correct then?

It's kind of a tread off.
When I use the 9900 with he keypad I do turn it off and everything is OK.
With this replacement crap with only the touchscreen I can't type 2 words without typing the adjacent letter instead of the right one as the approx 4 inch screen is too small, so I use the auto-correct but then it makes my life a hell when it comes to technical words or when I use another language and forget the change the dictionary settings. Hopefully it will be repaired before my next trip to the middle east, I'll need the 9900's keypad there.

donKey jote

14th October 2012, 21:31

ioan

15th October 2012, 00:36

Its because you are so used to the Blackberry. You can roll your fingers across the keys on a keyboard but its a different method when using a touch screen as your fingers have to completely leave the screen after each letter. Once you get used it its just as quick and easy in my experience. :)

Well I have a Samsung Galaxy Tab which I use without such issues, but then again it has a much bigger touch surface, even in portrait mode.
IMO they profiled keys on the BB are great and give you that feel that you need in order to type very fast, just like on a PC keyboard, where you can use the Shift, control and alt key in the same time you are typing, and all these on a tiny keypad.

ioan

15th October 2012, 00:37

donKey jote

15th October 2012, 06:53

But the LTE would come in grey, which is nicer than white ! :andrea: :p

Dave B

15th October 2012, 08:59

CaptainRaiden

15th October 2012, 10:01

can anybody (captain?) tell me the difference beween the SIII and the SIII LTE ?
Apart from the colour :)

Is it worth getting an LTE even though I won't be using the LTE bit for the time being? :cornfused:

This article should help you out a lot donks: Samsung Galaxy S3 4G Version Includes Drastic Changes; Is it Still Worthy to Buy the Smartphone? - International Business Times (http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/392067/20121008/samsung-galaxy-s3-4g-lte-version-release.htm#.UHvOOlEY00t)

So, in short, double the RAM, comes pre-loaded with the latest Android OS (4.1 Jelly Bean: You don't have to wait on the older Galaxy S3 for the update to roll out in your country, which could take another month or so).

Higher battery consumption when in LTE range, but LTE anyway is a battery hog. This can be remedied though in the future with a minor software update. Galaxy S3 has one of the best batteries in the market right now anyway, so it won't be lagging behind other phones by that much.

IMO if you would be changing phones over the next two years anyway, and LTE is of no use to you, then there's no point. Effective global 4G LTE deployment is still quite not there yet. But if the cost difference is not much, and you want your handset to be future proof, then I'd say go for it.

wedge

15th October 2012, 13:13

yes. For android there are several srt compatible media players. Most likely the same goes for ios tablets.

Top 5 Video Player apps for Android Mobile Phone and Tablet in 2011 - Android Circle
http://pinappu.hubpages.com/hub/10-Best-Android-Video-Movie-Player-Apps-for-Free-2012 (http://android-circle.blogspot.se/2011/12/top-5-video-player-apps-for-android.html)
Choosing the Best Video Player for Your Device | Android.AppStorm (http://android.appstorm.net/roundups/entertainment/choosing-the-best-video-player-for-your-device/)

Do they have auto-bookmark function? It's a must have when I use media player programs.

BleAivano

15th October 2012, 13:56

Do they have auto-bookmark function? It's a must have when I use media player programs.

I don't know, i haven't used them.

edv

15th October 2012, 16:04

http://i.imgur.com/YlUYZ.gif

CaptainRaiden

15th October 2012, 17:33

http://i.imgur.com/YlUYZ.gif

:laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llyq-zyE-wU

donKey jote

15th October 2012, 18:04

This article should help you out a lot donks: Samsung Galaxy S3 4G Version Includes Drastic Changes; Is it Still Worthy to Buy the Smartphone? - International Business Times (http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/392067/20121008/samsung-galaxy-s3-4g-lte-version-release.htm#.UHvOOlEY00t)

So, in short, double the RAM, comes pre-loaded with the latest Android OS (4.1 Jelly Bean: You don't have to wait on the older Galaxy S3 for the update to roll out in your country, which could take another month or so).

Higher battery consumption when in LTE range, but LTE anyway is a battery hog. This can be remedied though in the future with a minor software update. Galaxy S3 has one of the best batteries in the market right now anyway, so it won't be lagging behind other phones by that much.

IMO if you would be changing phones over the next two years anyway, and LTE is of no use to you, then there's no point. Effective global 4G LTE deployment is still quite not there yet. But if the cost difference is not much, and you want your handset to be future proof, then I'd say go for it.

Thanks :up:

Turns out I like grey better and that's the LTE :p

oh and it was of course for the same price as the non-LTE :)

Now I'm also thinking about an iPad on top. :arrows:

(Just discovered we get company rates, after all these years with a donkey handset) :dozey:

ioan

15th October 2012, 19:03

Many keyboards have a "Swipe" mode which can vastly speed up your input as you don't have to lift your finger between letters. Maybe, ioan, you could trial these.

Thanks for the useful idea Dave, this being a company phone it has to be a BB and I certainly won't buy a phone for work from my pocket. When the 9900 will be repaired it will be business as usual.
It seems that others are doing fine with small touchscreen keypads, while I really can't get to grips with them, the bigger ones are fine, so my next personal phone will most probably be a Samsung Note2, with enough space for my bulky fingers! ;)

Mark

15th October 2012, 19:49

Too big to be a mobile. And too small and too expensive to be a proper tablet.

CaptainRaiden

16th October 2012, 21:38

Daniel

18th October 2012, 10:22

Asus Padfone 2 review | Phone Reviews | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/reviews/phones/mobile-phones/asus-padfone-2-1104089/review)

Now this is really interesting. A quad core, 2 GB RAM, 720p screen powerhouse of an Android phone with LTE and NFC capability, once docked into the tablet, will work as a tablet, using both batteries for a stand-by time for up to six weeks.

Definitely great innovation, and while it may not be perfect now, it has a great future. What's more, it's somewhere around the price range of current flagship smartphones, which is great value for money.

http://cdn4.mos.techradar.futurecdn.net//art/mobile_phones/Asus/ASUS%20PADFONE%202/newpics/PA165564-900-90.JPG

http://cdn1.mos.techradar.futurecdn.net//art/mobile_phones/Asus/ASUS%20PADFONE%202/newpics/PA165558-900-90.JPG

http://cdn3.mos.techradar.futurecdn.net//art/mobile_phones/Asus/ASUS%20PADFONE%202/padfone_2_hands_on/padfone2_handson11-900-90.jpg

I'm not quite sure what to make of them. Personally I'm leaning more towards getting myself a tablet that doubles as a laptop and can be used as a desktop replacement. I'll still keep my desktop for gaming but I do miss having a computer when I'm away so a laptop is something I've wanted for a while and getting one that doubles as a tablet and is powerful enough to replace my desktop for everyday stuff is a bonus.

http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/microsoft-surface-rt-pro-specifications-comparison-144545

If Microsoft make a dock for the surface pro then I will buy one, if not then I'll see what HP, Lenovo etc etc come up with :)

Daniel

18th October 2012, 10:39

I should also mention as well that I feel that Apple's launching of an iPad mini on the 23rd of October (3 days before Windows 8 and surface launch) shows that they're actually scared of Surface and Windows 8.

With the Surface RT you get Office as part of the deal and you can even have a proper keyboard and mouse because it's got those crazy things called USB ports. So rather than an iPad device which is geared towards consuming content, you have a device which you could use to create content.

It's going to be an interesting month :)

Mark

18th October 2012, 10:43

And an interesting Christmas market I would think.

BleAivano

18th October 2012, 10:47

Daniel

18th October 2012, 10:50

It also have Bluetooth so you can connect wireless Bluetooth keyboards and mouses.
That too of course :) If Microsoft get Surface right (and I doubt they will, because they just don't market things hard enough) then they have the potential to start stealing iPad sales.

CaptainRaiden

18th October 2012, 11:20

I'm not quite sure what to make of them.

IMO it's quite neat. Asus also has keyboard docks for the tablet. So, the smartphone turns into a tablet turns into a laptop. It's certainly powerful enough with a 1.6 Ghz quad core processor and 2GB RAM. Plus the keyboard dock comes with its own battery which further extends the standby and talk time. The phone also has a bonkers 13 megapixel camera. The hardware definitely isn't lacking on any front. At around 500 pounds, it is a bit steep, but you get a top of the line smartphone and a tablet.

ASUS is not a seasoned player in this field, so the quality factor is an unknown. Most probably they have patented this invention as a result of Apple's douchebaggery, and so none of the major players can have a proper go with their own interpretation at this idea.

Personally I'm leaning more towards getting myself a tablet that doubles as a laptop and can be used as a desktop replacement. I'll still keep my desktop for gaming but I do miss having a computer when I'm away so a laptop is something I've wanted for a while and getting one that doubles as a tablet and is powerful enough to replace my desktop for everyday stuff is a bonus.

I was actually looking at the Surface Pro, but as it stands, my one and a half year old Dell Inspiron is more powerful than any tablet out in the market right now. Touch screen and touch controls aren't really necessary for my line of work, so work wise it's of no importance to me. I'm definitely not gonna spend $600 on a tablet to sit on the couch and swipe through Facebook and a bunch of PDF magazines.

Tablets available right now are still not there yet to replace a proper desktop or laptop workstation. Then again, the Surface Pro comes quite close, but it's still not there yet.

CaptainRaiden

18th October 2012, 11:22

With the Surface RT you get Office as part of the deal and you can even have a proper keyboard and mouse because it's got those crazy things called USB ports. So rather than an iPad device which is geared towards consuming content, you have a device which you could use to create content.

LOL, don't be silly Daniel. It's 2012. Who needs USB ports? :eek:

Daniel

18th October 2012, 11:29

IMO it's quite neat. Asus also has keyboard docks for the tablet. So, the smartphone turns into a tablet turns into a laptop. It's certainly powerful enough with a 1.6 Ghz quad core processor and 2GB RAM. Plus the keyboard dock comes with its own battery which further extends the standby and talk time. The phone also has a bonkers 13 megapixel camera. The hardware definitely isn't lacking on any front. At around 500 pounds, it is a bit steep, but you get a top of the line smartphone and a tablet.

ASUS is not a seasoned player in this field, so the quality factor is an unknown. Most probably they have patented this invention as a result of Apple's douchebaggery, and so none of the major players can have a proper go with their own interpretation at this idea.

I was actually looking at the Surface Pro, but as it stands, my one and a half year old Dell Inspiron is more powerful than any tablet out in the market right now. Touch screen and touch controls aren't really necessary for my line of work, so work wise it's of no importance to me. I'm definitely not gonna spend $600 on a tablet to sit on the couch and swipe through Facebook and a bunch of PDF magazines.

Tablets available right now are still not there yet to replace a proper desktop or laptop workstation. Then again, the Surface Pro comes quite close, but it's still not there yet.

The problem for me is that the Padphone is running an ARM processor rather than an x86 architecture one. So is it really going to be able to fill in for a desktop and laptop for everything but gaming? I don't think so. But it's a neat idea nonetheless.

The surface pro is not meant to replace a desktop for the really powerful stuff though, but I think it strikes a good balance between being a tablet and being able to do 90% of the stuff most will do with a desktop :)

Daniel

18th October 2012, 11:29

LOL, don't be silly Daniel. It's 2012. Who needs USB ports? :eek:

True, we could just pair accessories with NFC.... oh wait! :p

Daniel

18th October 2012, 11:31

I think the market has become so busy with so many manufacturers now trying to innovate beyond their competitors to get that edge, that the gap between tablet and laptop is beginning to be bridged. Whether it needed to be done is down to personal opinion of course.

The smartphone come tablet example above is very innovative indeed and is another avenue where the quest for bigger screens has taken off. Why buy a Samsung Galaxy Note 2 when you can buy a small easy-to-carry phone that slots into a tablet style screen? Its all going bonkers but I would imagine its cheaper than having a smartphone and tablet that are bought independently. Its all very interesting to watch and makes you wonder what is next :)

the other big thing is the OS's. Whilst iOS works well as a touchscreen OS, it's not really meant to be used with a keyboard and a mouse and the opposite is true of OSX.

Whilst a lot of people hate the Jekyll and Hyde approach of W8, I'm using it right now and the desktop mode is as near as makes no difference to Windows 7 which is how it should be. I can't really comment on how it works with a tablet as I've not tried it yet, but if it's anything like WP7 then it'll be fantastic.

CaptainRaiden

18th October 2012, 11:55

The problem for me is that the Padphone is running an ARM processor rather than an x86 architecture one. So is it really going to be able to fill in for a desktop and laptop for everything but gaming? I don't think so. But it's a neat idea nonetheless.

The surface pro is not meant to replace a desktop for the really powerful stuff though, but I think it strikes a good balance between being a tablet and being able to do 90% of the stuff most will do with a desktop :)

Agreed that the Padfone can only do the most basic stuff, but to be honest, and like you have mentioned already, even the Surface Pro can't match a proper desktop in terms of heavy duty rendering, modeling or designing either. It will fall short in playing major PC games at their full capacity too (lack of a discrete GPU). It would still blow the current iPad or any of the Android tablets in the market, out of the water in terms of performance.

Once launched, it will be the best tablet money can buy, no doubt about it. Its biggest strength is the bang-for-the-buck it offers for its portability, which will be very helpful for a lot of people. Still it would have to do a lot more to sway me away from spending the same money on a gaming laptop. :p IMO it's not there yet, but getting there. Maybe the next iteration is better.

Daniel

18th October 2012, 12:46

To be honest I hope iOS remains as a mobile operating system and doesn't go down the road of trying to adapt for keyboards and a mouse. I personally don't think that is what it is for and or what it was ever designed to do. There is evidently a market for people who want a tablet to morph into a laptop, but there are also consumers who buy a tablet simply to be a tablet. A convenient portable device to use away from their other computer alternatives. Microsoft and similar are bridging the gap between laptop and tablet and the demand is growing, but Apple have attacked the market in a very different way. Some of you may say that Apple will be left behind by now not following this trend, but I think if there comes a time where Apple need to follow in a market they dominated from the start, they will look to something very different. It seems to be the way it works. :)
That's the beauty of Windows 8 :) It should be able to do both properly :)

Daniel

18th October 2012, 12:57

Agreed that the Padfone can only do the most basic stuff, but to be honest, and like you have mentioned already, even the Surface Pro can't match a proper desktop in terms of heavy duty rendering, modeling or designing either. It will fall short in playing major PC games at their full capacity too (lack of a discrete GPU). It would still blow the current iPad or any of the Android tablets in the market, out of the water in terms of performance.

Once launched, it will be the best tablet money can buy, no doubt about it. Its biggest strength is the bang-for-the-buck it offers for its portability, which will be very helpful for a lot of people. Still it would have to do a lot more to sway me away from spending the same money on a gaming laptop. :p IMO it's not there yet, but getting there. Maybe the next iteration is better.

I guess it all depends what sort of devices you want to own :) For me a gaming laptop is a no-no. If I'm going to have something portable I want it to be relatively light and gaming laptops are a nightmare in terms of heat. My gaming machine is rocking a Sandy Bridge Core i5 2500k a 4850 or 4870 (can't remember which!) graphics card, a 120gb Corsair Force GT SSD and 8 gig of RAM. It's pretty pokey although it could use a new graphics card if I'm honest. I'm going to do a bit of gaming this afternoon to stretch her legs a little :D I've just removed the protective plastic covering from my P183 today after about 20 months of ownership :p

Malbec

18th October 2012, 17:35

ASUS is not a seasoned player in this field, so the quality factor is an unknown. Most probably they have patented this invention as a result of Apple's douchebaggery, and so none of the major players can have a proper go with their own interpretation at this idea.

I like the ASUS design a lot as it may be just what I'm looking for. Its expensive and would be at the same level as the most expensive iPhone, substantially more than other top end phones though. I'd have to wait until a few hands on reviews before plumping for it.

As for the patents I realise you don't understand how the system works which is why you probably resent the Apple court case so much. The system is not there to allow monopolies to develop and flourish but has to strike a balance between encouraging different solutions to a problem to exist while protecting intellectual property.

You posted links to Motorola's flipphone in another thread and claimed they should have patented their idea. They did.

However they cannot patent the idea of a folding phone which is too broad a stroke. They have to specify in detail what that entails, how it would open/close and what functions the relative parts perform. IIRC Motorola flipphones had the battery and keypad in one section while the other section contained all the electronics, that would have been specified in their patent. Other manufacturers were free to develop flipphones as long as they did not infringe Motorola's specific patents and I don't believe any other manufacturer introduced a phone that had the functions split across the phone the way Motorola's did. Some only had a microphone in the folding part of the phone, others didn't even have that and just had a plastic keypad cover that folded out. They are still flipphones but didn't infringe Motorola's specific patent.

Therefore ASUS can patent their particular cariety of a machine that splits up into a phone and tablet but they cannot patent the whole idea of a phone/tablet system. Other makers can come up with their variations on that theme as long as they don't infringe upon ASUS' specific patent.

I hope that helps.

CaptainRaiden

18th October 2012, 19:21

I like the ASUS design a lot as it may be just what I'm looking for. Its expensive and would be at the same level as the most expensive iPhone, substantially more than other top end phones though. I'd have to wait until a few hands on reviews before plumping for it.

ASUS make decent hardware. I like their motherboards and GPUs. Their laptops also seem to be solidly built. Android will take care of the software part as far as the phone and tablet go. After sales service is where they might be lacking initially, but that can be ramped up.

As for the patents I realise you don't understand how the system works which is why you probably resent the Apple court case so much. The system is not there to allow monopolies to develop and flourish but has to strike a balance between encouraging different solutions to a problem to exist while protecting intellectual property.

I'll admit first off that my knowledge of the patent process is lacking. But wasn't one of Apple's patent rounded corners of a device, for which they sued Samsung for? Didn't Apple win the case only in US, and not anywhere else? Aren't Apple's revenues a small, but important part of the American economy?

The reason I put the Motorola link in the other thread was because IMO Motorola could have patented the flip phone design entirely. I mean they invented it, who stops them? There have been hundreds of innovations in the world of electronics over the past two decades. I mean all flat screen TVs look the same, several phone companies copied Motorola, Nokia, Samsung and Sony Ericsson designs by the dozen throughout the 90s and 2000s. But no one was as anal as Apple about the overall look of a device, the exact cm, radii etc. The ridiculousness of the lawsuit is proven by Apple's victory only in the US, Apple's backyard. You can't tell me the rest of the world's judicial system is not as good as that of the USA.

What this has done is opened up a whole new pandora's box where companies have now realized that they can sue willy-nilly and stifle the competition, proof being since the Apple Samsung battle, smartphone lawsuits have ramped up with Nokia suing HTC, LG suing Apple, and now Motorola and Samsung suing Apple.

Motorola (http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/20/motorolas-new-patent-lawsuit-against-apple-the-details/)

Samsung sues Apple over iPhone 5 - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/samsung/9580996/Samsung-sues-Apple-over-iPhone-5.html#)

Earlier at least you could have similar looking gadgets with a different OS and different characteristics, not anymore. I'm not saying a company isn't allowed to protect their IP or patents they worked so hard on refining. Hell, sue everyone if they're blatantly copying. Hardware or software similarity have always existed in the phone industry. But lawsuits for such petty issues as rounded corners leave a bad taste in the mouth.

Malbec

18th October 2012, 21:45

I'll admit first off that my knowledge of the patent process is lacking. But wasn't one of Apple's patent rounded corners of a device, for which they sued Samsung for? Didn't Apple win the case only in US, and not anywhere else?

There are two legal issues here. I think you're confusing the two.

One is patent protection. The other is brand identity protection. Those are not the formal legal words which I've forgotten but I'm sure someone will let you know what they are.

Apple didn't patent the angles of their corners, patents are to do with technology IIRC. Apple argued that Samsung were copying the look and feel of their iPhone and were therefore infringing upon their brand.

Take a look at similar cases like Starbucks:

Michael Atkins - Seattle Trademark Lawyer - Chinese Official Explains How His Court Calculated Infringement*Damages (http://seattletrademarklawyer.com/blog/2008/2/5/chinese-official-explains-how-his-court-calculated-infringem.html)

You could reduce this case to Starbucks having a monopoly on green and black circular logos with white lettering too, doesn't that sound really trivial of Starbucks?

Or how about this?

BMW loses court battle to chinese X5 clone (http://www.bmwblog.com/2008/12/19/bmw-loses-court-battle-to-chinese-x5-clone/)

BMW getting petty about some Chinese car maker using four circular headlamps, a Hoffmeister kink and kidney grilles. What are the Germans playing at?

Or can you see the other side? That a manufacturer who builds up a brand and a design language may want to protect that brand and look? And that a banal description of that look may look pathetic to you (its all about the angles of the corners and buttons after all) but may be of great commercial value to the victor?

What you seem to be suggesting to me is that its absolutely fine for one company to copy the look and feel of another company's products instead of forging ahead with its own brand design. I don't agree.

The reason I put the Motorola link in the other thread was because IMO Motorola could have patented the flip phone design entirely. I mean they invented it, who stops them?

No, Motorola couldn't. The patent system stops them as I tried to explain earlier.

The patenting system isn't there to crush competition. If Motorola was allowed to patent phones that fold as a whole idea then noone else would be able to make anything similar or they'd have to pay fees. This would promote a monopoly, therefore the patenting system is designed to stop this from happening.

As I explained Motorola would have had to go into tremendous detail in their patent regarding how the phone folded and what was on either side of the hinge. That is why I mentioned that Motorola phones had the battery and keypad on one half and the gubbins and earpiece on the other, because thats what they would have patented. Other phone makers could sidestep the patent by having different flip devices, hence why other makers only had mics in the flip part or even just a plastic flap with no other function.

If you designed a time machine you would have to explain exactly what mechanism you use for it to do its job. You cannot patent the idea of a time machine itself. If I then develop and market another time machine you must prove that my device uses the exact same mechanism as yours or was derived from it to prove I infringed your patent.

There have been hundreds of innovations in the world of electronics over the past two decades. I mean all flat screen TVs look the same, several phone companies copied Motorola, Nokia, Samsung and Sony Ericsson designs by the dozen throughout the 90s and 2000s. But no one was as anal as Apple about the overall look of a device, the exact cm, radii etc. The ridiculousness of the lawsuit is proven by Apple's victory only in the US, Apple's backyard. You can't tell me the rest of the world's judicial system is not as good as that of the USA.

What this has done is opened up a whole new pandora's box where companies have now realized that they can sue willy-nilly and stifle the competition, proof being since the Apple Samsung battle, smartphone lawsuits have ramped up with Nokia suing HTC, LG suing Apple, and now Motorola and Samsung suing Apple.

Motorola (http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/20/motorolas-new-patent-lawsuit-against-apple-the-details/)

Samsung sues Apple over iPhone 5 - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/samsung/9580996/Samsung-sues-Apple-over-iPhone-5.html#)

Earlier at least you could have similar looking gadgets with a different OS and different characteristics, not anymore. I'm not saying a company isn't allowed to protect their IP or patents they worked so hard on refining. Hell, sue everyone if they're blatantly copying. Hardware or software similarity have always existed in the phone industry. But lawsuits for such petty issues as rounded corners leave a bad taste in the mouth.

Are you really trying to tell me that electronics companies didn't sue each other before Apple came along with this lawsuit? Really? Frankly that you believe that beggars belief. Maybe you should pay more attention to the finance pages because firstly what Apple did is nothing in terms of inter-corporate legal suits and secondly they are very very far from being the first company to be engaged in this kind of behaviour. Maybe you should read a bit about Microsoft's history for example.

CaptainRaiden

18th October 2012, 22:34

At the end of the day, I could care less about who wins the legal battles. Not really interested in what happens in the courtrooms.

What I want is a gadget which has the best of both worlds. If I don't like Apple's walled garden treatment, I shouldn't be forced to buy their products. Neither should features in my phone be blocked or removed. Mobile phone and smartphone features have long been filtered and trickled down into various different devices from different manufacturers. Never were devices banned or stupid things like phone unlocking pattern asked to be removed. Yes, there were minor lawsuits, but never this sudden anal control-freakery as what Apple did when they sued Samsung. They obviously felt threatened by Samsung's rise as their main competitor, and then chose the legal route. Why else would they wait two years?

When companies start to patent innovation, that's one step towards monopoly, especially ignoring the fact that their own OS copied many elements and was originally inspired by Palm OS.

Isn't it weird that Apple only won in their backyard, the USA, amidst allegations of mishandling of evidence? Doesn't it strike you as a weird coincidence? They lost everywhere else. A UK judge even ordered Apple, hilariously, to post on their website that Samsung didn't copy them.

CaptainRaiden

18th October 2012, 22:44

I guess it all depends what sort of devices you want to own :) For me a gaming laptop is a no-no. If I'm going to have something portable I want it to be relatively light and gaming laptops are a nightmare in terms of heat. My gaming machine is rocking a Sandy Bridge Core i5 2500k a 4850 or 4870 (can't remember which!) graphics card, a 120gb Corsair Force GT SSD and 8 gig of RAM. It's pretty pokey although it could use a new graphics card if I'm honest.

That's a sweet setup. I built a gaming PC in 2009 with a Core 2 Quad 2.6 Ghz CPU, 4 gig of RAM, Radeon 4870 (same card!) and a basic 1 TB 7200 RPM HDD. A year later added an ASUS Xonar DX 7.1. The old boy still plays all the latest games at high quality, thanks to most of them being console ports I guess. I'm sure I'll have to upgrade once the next gen consoles come in next year, because that's when the gaming world will be ramping up the quality.

My gaming laptop doesn't really give me any trouble with heat, but that's because I'm living in a cold area ATM. When I travel to hotter places, I make sure to have a cooler with me. The side vent does throw up devil's breath sometimes during heavy gaming.

I'm going to do a bit of gaming this afternoon to stretch her legs a little :D I've just removed the protective plastic covering from my P183 today after about 20 months of ownership :p

Happy gaming!

Malbec

18th October 2012, 22:52

At the end of the day, I could care less about who wins the legal battles. Not really interested in what happens in the courtrooms.

I suggest if you don't want to try and understand the process you cease commenting on them. That way you'll stop looking silly.

What I want is a gadget which has the best of both worlds. If I don't like Apple's walled garden treatment, I shouldn't be forced to buy their products. Neither should features in my phone be blocked or removed.

I agree except where features are deemed to have been copied. I don't see why its deemed acceptable by you that because you don't like one company it should be ok for others to try and copy them.

I don't like many features of Apple's behaviour but I believe their competitors should beat them by making a better and different product, not a clone. That way I get a variety of products to choose from and not just Apple and Apple-lite.

Yes, there were minor lawsuits, but never this sudden anal control-freakery as what Apple did when they sued Samsung. They obviously felt threatened by Samsung's rise as their main competitor, and then chose the legal route. Why else would they wait two years?

The previous cases were only minor because the court judgements affected smaller markets or were less decisive. What the companies were asking for though (Apple included but certainly not exclusively) was always the banning of rival products or major changes to their function.

When companies start to patent innovation, that's one step towards monopoly,

Sorry CR but this is awful. You can't write rubbish like this and be taken seriously.

Patenting exists to protect innovation. Its there to allow people and companies to invest in new technologies safe in the knowledge that their investment can be recouped in the future (if successful) without others copying them and cashing in without cost.

Its also designed not to be restrictive enough to prevent rivals from coming up with similar solutions as long as they are not copied. Its a difficult balance but its there to promote innovation and competition.

CaptainRaiden

18th October 2012, 23:23

I suggest if you don't want to try and understand the process you cease commenting on them. That way you'll stop looking silly.

Well, then what are you doing in the mobile phones and tablets thread? :p Isn't there a legal-tosh-get-touchy-about-Apple-patronize-and-throw-childish insults thread somewhere?

I agree except where features are deemed to have been copied. I don't see why its deemed acceptable by you that because you don't like one company it should be ok for others to try and copy them. I don't like many features of Apple's behaviour but I believe their competitors should beat them by making a better and different product, not a clone. That way I get a variety of products to choose from and not just Apple and Apple-lite.

Where did I say it is okay for anybody to copy anything? Galaxy S2 nor Galaxy S3 is in any way, shape or form an iPhone clone. Android is in no way an iOS clone. It is a better OS with far more versatility and plenty more features. With their latest iterations, it seems to me that Google has innovated and gone ahead with Android, whereas iOS has stayed the same. How is that copying?

The previous cases were only minor because the court judgements affected smaller markets or were less decisive. What the companies were asking for though (Apple included but certainly not exclusively) was always the banning of rival products or major changes to their function.

Were they banned because of something as trivial as rounded corners though? Why was the Korean company bullied and banned in USA and not anywhere else? You seem to be conveniently ignoring this question in your replies Malbec. What is it, ADD?

Whether you like it or not, innovative products have always inspired design for decades now. Companies have been copying each other forever. There may have been plenty of lawsuits over the last two decades, but none of them with such drastic outcomes. Again, why were Apple successful only in the United States?

Sorry CR but this is awful. You can't write rubbish like this and be taken seriously.

Patenting exists to protect innovation. Its there to allow people and companies to invest in new technologies safe in the knowledge that their investment can be recouped in the future (if successful) without others copying them and cashing in without cost.

Please explain first why was this lawsuit taken seriously ONLY in the USA, and then carry on with your pathetic flaming. As you have mentioned before, there have been plenty of lawsuits like this by phone manufacturers, I am sure, especially about edges, rounded corners, plastic buttons, logo placement, box design, enter password to unlock phone etc. Why didn't any of those companies win in the USA and the court put a ban on their rivals?

Robinho

19th October 2012, 04:34

so has anyone else had the problem with either Iphone 4s or Ipad 2 losing ability to connect to Wifi since upgrading to IOS6? My wifes phone has failed and having done some digging it seems there are hundreds or reported cases cropping up worldwide, with the only definitive fix being downgrading back to IOS5, or having Apple replace the phone (it seems to indiscriminantly target phones, some older, some brand new, even some of the replacements offered by apple. Clearly there is a hardware compatability issue somewhere where some of the phones are not working with the new software, but from what i've read Apple don't have an answer on when they will (if they will) roll out an upgraded IOS6 to solve the problem or if they will just have to replace a bunch more 4s's. either way its a trip to the Apple store next week to see if we can argue for a replacement, having tried about half a dozen supposed fixes to get the WiFi button back

Big Ben

19th October 2012, 07:27

Is she holding it right?

CaptainRaiden

19th October 2012, 08:58

CaptainRaiden

19th October 2012, 09:03

Malbec

19th October 2012, 10:13

Well, then what are you doing in the mobile phones and tablets thread? :p Isn't there a legal-tosh-get-touchy-about-Apple-patronize-and-throw-childish insults thread somewhere?

Just reflect on your behaviour here CR.

I tried to explain some of how patents work. I've had to work with drug patents in the past so I have experience in the area. As soon as what I was saying became inconvenient for your viewpoint your response has been to claim disinterest in legal systems then label me an Apple fanboi (that is how you spell it correct?).

Where did I say it is okay for anybody to copy anything? Galaxy S2 nor Galaxy S3 is in any way, shape or form an iPhone clone. Android is in no way an iOS clone. It is a better OS with far more versatility and plenty more features. With their latest iterations, it seems to me that Google has innovated and gone ahead with Android, whereas iOS has stayed the same. How is that copying?

I might be old and cynical but thats not how I view the picture at all.

Both Apple/Android hardware and software are incredibly sophisticated. They are supposed to represent different solutions to very very similar problems. Given the complexity of the hardware and software it would be naive to believe that there are not significant similarities between the two in parts. Most are perfectly legitimate and either involve third party hard/software or proper patent payments to the relevant company. I'm sure however there are many similarities that are not legally clearcut, some may be accidental infringements, some may be deliberate attempts to copy. Its because of this complex picture that these lawsuits arise, connected to the fact that a successful case could knock competing products out of a market for a time.

Note that I'm not assigning blame to any individual company.

Were they banned because of something as trivial as rounded corners though? Why was the Korean company bullied and banned in USA and not anywhere else? You seem to be conveniently ignoring this question in your replies Malbec. What is it, ADD?

Whether you like it or not, innovative products have always inspired design for decades now. Companies have been copying each other forever. There may have been plenty of lawsuits over the last two decades, but none of them with such drastic outcomes. Again, why were Apple successful only in the United States?

Nice personal insult at the end there.

So Samsung have not been banned anywhere else?

Samsung Galaxy Tab ban upheld in Germany, mein gott! | CNET UK (http://crave.cnet.co.uk/laptops/samsung-galaxy-tab-ban-upheld-in-germany-mein-gott-50005121/)

There you go, Galaxy Tab banned in Germany before the landmark case in California.

Oh here are some other cases.

Motorola Android devices banned in Germany for infringing Microsoft's FAT patent | The Verge (http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/27/3192900/microsoft-motorola-fat-patent-germany-decision)
BBC News - PS3 imports banned in patent row (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12607370)

Note the second case.

The PS3 is Sony's biggest single individual earner. The EU is one of Sony's three biggest PS3 markets. LG managed to block PS3 imports into the whole of the EU by targetting the Netherlands which is where Sony Europe's import facilities are. Unlike Samsung which had bans on already obsolete products Sony had a ban on a very current product across a massive market.

So where does this leave your assertion that Apple is the first company to really start suing in the electronics industry? WAKE UP, its been going on forever!

and then carry on with your pathetic flaming.

I have no idea what flaming is but sounds nasty.

Take it up with the mods if you don't like my posts.

Malbec

19th October 2012, 10:16

I've heard about this problem, as one of my friends who owns a 4S also was having this issue since upgrading to iOS6. Have you tried rebooting the phone, and then resetting the router/modem? Worth a shot IMO, as that works in many cases. If not, then a trip to the repair center it is.

No thats not going to work.

There is a documented problem with iOS 6 where the phone will prefer to download over 3G if connection with wireless is lost even momentarily and will not revert to wireless download if the connection is restored. This has resulted in 3G downloading bills skyrocketing for some owners.

I do think Apple have cut a few corners to get the iPhone 5 and iOS 6 to market in good time for Xmas. Shame.

Malbec

19th October 2012, 10:21

I don't know what your little Apple love story there has to do with, henners, but first off, you're comparing a three year old HTC phone to Apple's current offering. Things are different with the flagship competitor phones. I used iPhone 4S for a week and jumped back to Android in a heartbeat. But then again, different people have different choices. To each his own. À chacun son goût, Chacun son goût. :D

Second, if it was a retort to one sentence in one of my earlier posts in reply to Malbec, I was talking about their latest iterations, and Android 4.1 is universally rated higher and regarded better than iOS6, especially with the maps debacle, not just by me, but by almost all major tech reviewers.

But hey, if in your opinion, iOS is better, then good for you. You should stick to your choice and be happy with it, just as I am with mine. I was retorting to Malbec's claim of Android being a clone, saying how it's now an almost unrecognizable OS with far more features and versatility.

The rest of it, I find it to be the same old repetitive stuff and have no interest in debating as we'll be going in very familiar circles again anyway.

Oh dear CR, one has to either love or hate Apple right? More nuanced views don't have a place do they.

I don't care how others rate Android 4.1 vs iOS6. However having used both I rate the Android as being far better for me than the iPhone version. You really don't need to convince me of its superiority.

Hence why I'm probably opting for the Xperia T as my next phone. Thats not an iPhone BTW just to clarify further.

BTW I'm such an Apple fanboi as you put it that I'm thinking of the Nexus 7 to dip a toe in the tablet market. Thats by Apple isn't it? Though I have to say that Apple smartphone/tablet hybrid you posted a link to looks good too!

Nor did I claim Android was a clone, I haven't even mentioned any court cases involving Android per se, merely the Samsung vs Apple case which left out Android itself (hence why Google was not directly involved). I suggest you find the sentence where I did and quote it if you disagree.

CaptainRaiden

19th October 2012, 10:44

So Samsung have not been banned anywhere else?

Samsung Galaxy Tab ban upheld in Germany, mein gott! | CNET UK (http://crave.cnet.co.uk/laptops/samsung-galaxy-tab-ban-upheld-in-germany-mein-gott-50005121/)

There you go, Galaxy Tab banned in Germany before the landmark case in California.

That link is from 2011. Is the ban in effect? No, a friend just bought a Galaxy tab in Frankfurt. Bans have been lifted in the UK and Germany since, I guess when their legal system realized how ridiculous the lawsuit was. Apple won the lawsuit in the USA, lost the lawsuit in China and the EU, two equally big markets. Apple lost again in other parts of Asia like Japan, and South Korea deemed both parties to be guilty of infringing patents. Nowhere was a victory as clear cut as in the USA, Apple's backyard, especially amidst allegations of mishandling evidence. Also, I highly doubt Samsung will ever win a case against Apple in USA.

Besides, the verdict in USA doesn't even matter, because nobody is paying anybody anything, no devices will truly be banned. Samsung will keep appealing the decision and the re-trial will go on forever.

I tried to explain some of how patents work. I've had to work with drug patents in the past so I have experience in the area. As soon as what I was saying became inconvenient for your viewpoint your response has been to claim disinterest in legal systems then label me an Apple fanboi (that is how you spell it correct?).

So where does this leave your assertion that Apple is the first company to really start suing in the electronics industry? WAKE UP, its been going on forever!

I never called you a fanboy, but you do get a tad bit emotional when defending Apple.

Where did I say the lawsuits haven't been going on forever? I am also quite aware of Microsoft's litigation history. But what you're defending here, Malbec, is clearly a broken patent system. I mean when a company can patent a specific rectangular shape (seriously??), aren't they really blocking innovation? Software from different companies have always been heavily similar to each other for as long as I can remember.

Suing your rivals for petty things like slide to unlock or rectangular edges is really desperate and pathetic IMO. I know Apple are full within their rights to do so if they please, but are you actually siding with Apple on this? Having said that, I too think Samsung and LG's lawsuits against Apple are pathetic as well, and serve really no purpose. Neither company benefits from this, because you know the verdict is gonna be appealed no matter who wins. This only enriches the law firms, and ultimately the end user has to pay more. My point is that petty squabbles like these should not exist in technology, no matter which company is wielding the hammer.

For example, I agree with a lot that's written here: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/08/apple-samsung-should-fight-battle-in-marketplace

Especially this part:

Our patent system is intended to incentivize innovation, in theory at least. Lately it’s become little more than a tool to squelch competition, and it’s not just the Apples and the Samsungs of the world who find themselves fighting these battles. It’s also small and innovative companies, local governments, foreign companies trying to make it in America, hobbyists, and even individual developers. The problems are particularly acute in the world of software: it turns out that software patents are nearly five times more likely to be the subject of litigation as other patents. In fact, lawsuits surrounding software patents have more than tripled since 1999.

CaptainRaiden

19th October 2012, 10:55

I don't care how others rate Android 4.1 vs iOS6. However having used both I rate the Android as being far better for me than the iPhone version. You really don't need to convince me of its superiority.

I am not.

Hence why I'm probably opting for the Xperia T as my next phone. Thats not an iPhone BTW just to clarify further.

WHAT?? It isn't?? I thought it was called the Apple iPhone Xperia T.

BTW I'm such an Apple fanboi as you put it that I'm thinking of the Nexus 7 to dip a toe in the tablet market. Thats by Apple isn't it?

The Apple Nexus 7 doesn't have expandable memory or USB ports, but I guess people don't need that these days, especially flaming Apple loverboys.

Though I have to say that Apple smartphone/tablet hybrid you posted a link to looks good too!

The Apple Padfone 2 costs $3000 just so you know.

CaptainRaiden

19th October 2012, 11:07

Nor did I claim Android was a clone, I haven't even mentioned any court cases involving Android per se, merely the Samsung vs Apple case which left out Android itself (hence why Google was not directly involved). I suggest you find the sentence where I did and quote it if you disagree.

What you said earlier was:

I don't like many features of Apple's behaviour but I believe their competitors should beat them by making a better and different product, not a clone. That way I get a variety of products to choose from and not just Apple and Apple-lite.

Unless I am in a parallel universe and this is Blorgon Delta-6, I believe Apple's competitors include Google and Android as well, and one of Apple's major lawsuits are aimed towards Android, which BTW Google are now countersuing Apple for taking elements off too. Apple has a problem with Galaxy S3 too, which IMO doesn't look like any Apple device in existence.

If Apple could, they would sue every rectangular shaped phone with the candybar form factor. I'm sure the judges in California will find enough evidence and the radii to be the same to award another $1 billion. They targeted Samsung solely because they were its biggest competitor.

Malbec

19th October 2012, 11:08

I never called you a fanboy, but you do get a tad bit emotional when defending Apple.

I'm not defending Apple. I get annoyed and frustrated at your one-sided simplistic view of the system and your ability to dismiss new information when you don't like it.

My other posts regarding Apple's bizarre Maps debacle and also my own willingness (or rather unwillingness) to invest my own cash into their iPhones and iPads should tell you where I stand on their mobile products.

Where did I say the lawsuits haven't been going on forever? I am also quite aware of Microsoft's litigation history. But what you're defending here, Malbec, is clearly a broken patent system. I mean when a company can patent a specific rectangular shape (seriously??), aren't they really blocking innovation? Software from different companies have always been heavily similar to each other for as long as I can remember.

No you still just don't get it.

The Apple/Samsung US case covered many different bases but the bit you keep bringing up again (rectangles and corners) is not about patents, its about brand protection. iPhones have always had a particular look about them and Apple argued that Samsung were copying this look in the S2. When you put descriptions of a particular look on paper they do sound stupid.

I posted links to Starbucks vs some Chinese cafe. Starbuck's argument sounds equally stupid on paper. Our logo is round and green with a black picture in the middle and white lettering. That cafe chain in China uses a similar logo and are therefore copying us. Please stop them from doing so. How pathetic does that sound?

This isn't about stifling innovation. They weren't asking to ban Samsung from ever making smartphones, just ones that look different from iPhones. The S3 looks nothing like an iPhone so Samsung clearly got the message.

There were obviously many other parts to the court case but the above bit which I've repeated for the third time should give you an insight into why that decision was made.

Suing your rivals for petty things like slide to unlock or rectangular edges is really desperate and pathetic IMO. I know Apple are full within their rights to do so if they please, but are you actually siding with Apple on this? Having said that, I too think Samsung and LG's lawsuits against Apple are pathetic as well, and serve really no purpose. Neither company benefits from this, because you know the verdict is gonna be appealed no matter who wins. This only enriches the law firms, and ultimately the end user has to pay more. My point is that petty squabbles like these should not exist in technology, no matter which company is wielding the hammer.

For example, I agree with a lot that's written here: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/08/apple-samsung-should-fight-battle-in-marketplace

Especially this part:

Agreed.

Malbec

19th October 2012, 11:12

What you said earlier was:

Unless I am in a parallel universe and this is Blorgon Delta-6, I believe Apple's competitors include Google and Android as well, and one of Apple's major lawsuits are aimed towards Android, which BTW Google are now countersuing Apple for taking elements off too. Apple has a problem with Galaxy S3 too, which IMO doesn't look like any Apple device in existence.

If Apple could, they would sue every rectangular shaped phone with the candybar form factor. I'm sure the judges in California will find enough evidence and the radii to be the same to award another $1 billion. They targeted Samsung solely because they were its biggest competitor.

Fair enough, I wasn't actually referring to Android but the hardware makers like Samsung or HTC. I was unclear.

What is Apple suing over the S3? Presumably not its looks because its properly differentiated from the iPhone. More likely their case is over software or hardware rather than the appearance.

Why focus on Apple alone btw?

Nokia and HTC both brought out Windows 8 phones the other week. Both decided to reflect the use of strong coloured tablets in the OS by making the phones brightly coloured too. Nokia happened to release theirs a week or so before HTC and are now suing them for copying their design. Is it a coincidence that the HTC is likely to be Nokia's biggest single competitor? Lets hear the outrage ;)

CaptainRaiden

19th October 2012, 11:22

What is Apple suing over the S3? Presumably not its looks because its properly differentiated from the iPhone. More likely their case is over software or hardware rather than the appearance.

Apple goes after Galaxy S3, Note in new court filing | Apple - CNET News (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57504756-37/apple-goes-after-galaxy-s3-note-in-new-court-filing/)

Didn't read it all, gotta hurry to work, but from what I remember reading a few weeks ago, it was about petty things like pinch to zoom and some other software features I'm guessing related to Samsung's touchwhiz UI.

Why focus on Apple alone btw?

Nokia and HTC both brought out Windows 8 phones the other week. Both decided to reflect the use of strong coloured tablets in the OS by making the phones brightly coloured too. Nokia happened to release theirs a week or so before HTC and are now suing them for copying their design. Is it a coincidence that the HTC is likely to be Nokia's biggest single competitor? Lets hear the outrage ;)

I didn't. A few pages ago I posted pics of HTC's Windows phone lineup, and mentioned Nokia is gearing up with its own stupid version of lawsuit against HTC. This I still don't get really. Similar looking gadgets have existed for as long as I can remember, ever since the walkman, this sudden huff-a-puff over slight resemblance is annoying.

CaptainRaiden

19th October 2012, 11:34

Getting back to mobile phones, got the Jelly Bean update on my S3 two days ago. Smooth as butter, much faster, more responsive, Google Now voice recog is great and super fast. As for features, I especially like the swipe to call feature from the call log thingy. Everything else has been ramped up quite a bit too, detailed review to follow when I have more time to play with it.

Would have rooted my phone and installed this long back, but didn't wanna lose warranty. As it stands, I'm gonna lose warranty anyway, I'll most probably root my S3 and install a vanilla Android 4.2 Key lime pie when it arrives. Apparently it has a second notification bar for quick settings at the pre-alpha stage, as this video would suggest:

ybzSAyFvAXA

BleAivano

19th October 2012, 11:44

Apple goes after Galaxy S3, Note in new court filing | Apple - CNET News (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57504756-37/apple-goes-after-galaxy-s3-note-in-new-court-filing/)

Didn't read it all, gotta hurry to work, but from what I remember reading a few weeks ago, it was about petty things like pinch to zoom and some other software features I'm guessing related to Samsung's touchwhiz UI.

I didn't. A few pages ago I posted pics of HTC's Windows phone lineup, and mentioned Nokia is gearing up with its own stupid version of lawsuit against HTC. This I still don't get really. Similar looking gadgets have existed for as long as I can remember, ever since the walkman, this sudden huff-a-puff over slight resemblance is annoying.

Not to mention guitars, they all look pretty much the same. The same goes for light bulbs, wrenches, screw drivers, hammers....

CaptainRaiden

19th October 2012, 11:52

Talking about tablets, ASUS unveiled a laptop/tablet hybrid thingy called the Taichi: Asus' dual-screen Taichi tablet-laptop hybrid on sale for $1299 | PCWorld (http://www.pcworld.com/article/2011809/asus-dualscreen-taichi-tabletlaptop-hybrid-on-sale-for-1299.html)

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/sap/files/2012/10/asus-taichi.jpg

When the lid is closed, it becomes a tablet:

http://www.techsparx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/asus-taichi-review-hands-on-preview-5.jpg

r4jmE0YKpf8

The guy needs some presentation coaching. :p But boy, ASUS are really picking it up on the innovation side.

Mark

19th October 2012, 12:15

They've been around for years. Although not with the tablet based OS to go with them.

Malbec

19th October 2012, 12:34

Getting back to mobile phones, got the Jelly Bean update on my S3 two days ago. Smooth as butter, much faster, more responsive, Google Now voice recog is great and super fast. As for features, I especially like the swipe to call feature from the call log thingy. Everything else has been ramped up quite a bit too, detailed review to follow when I have more time to play with it.

Good.

Keep us informed. Ultimately JB is the factor that kept me with Android as well as that butter thing.

Whats the general performance of your phone like, is there any change in speed opening up apps etc?

CaptainRaiden

19th October 2012, 13:26

Good.

Keep us informed. Ultimately JB is the factor that kept me with Android as well as that butter thing.

Whats the general performance of your phone like, is there any change in speed opening up apps etc?

General performance has sped up. The phone's lock screen comes on quicker, apps open much faster, visibly faster than in ICS. There is a slight frame rate increase when gaming. I play Dead Trigger every chance I get, which is a graphic intensive game, and it's visibly faster. Chrome opens up instantly and the browser speed is excellent. The keyboard is better. It's almost like the phone has come alive. I believe JB is what ICS should have been.

In your call log or contact list, you can now swipe right to make a call or swipe left to send a message, which is neat and I think saves a lot of time.

People having problems with ICS on their older devices, IMO, should root their phones and get vanilla JB installed. DIY is simple enough, if not, any small third party phone shop will do it in a matter of minutes for a small fee. ICS is a heavy OS, was even for the Galaxy S3, and JB is much lighter on hardware resources.

CaptainRaiden

19th October 2012, 17:28

Hence why I'm probably opting for the Xperia T as my next phone.

This just in: No Jelly Bean for Sony Xperia phones until 2013 | News | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/no-jelly-bean-for-sony-xperia-phones-until-2013-1105619)

However, if you don't mind waiting until February, then there are no issues.

Mark

19th October 2012, 19:28

Apple seems to think the local town on Consett is called Gonsett.

CaptainRaiden

19th October 2012, 20:10

Apple seems to think the local town on Consett is called Gonsett.

I think they're also providing special effects for the next Inception movie:

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5424066_700b_v2.jpg

BleAivano

19th October 2012, 21:13

the squared brown/orange building with the tower is Stockholm city library.

ioan

20th October 2012, 16:58

Its a great phone or is it a tablet? I had a go with one the other day and although I was impressed with with it can do, I couldn't have one simply because it doesn't fit in my pocket without looking like I'm smuggling a library book. Trying to fit that in the pocket of skinny jeans would be difficult too so nights out would have to be like the old days before mobile phones for me. Its still a nice gadget though if you can justify and accommodate it.

I've got an older Samsung and an older Nokia for nights out. ;)
I need this one for when I travel, get bored and want to do something productive or artistic. Until now I am happy with the 7" Galaxy, so the Note would be a slight improvement in the portable and yet multifunctional tool direction.

race aficionado

21st October 2012, 02:53

Okay, I confess I'm posting this to rile Daniel a bit. ;)

I personally have never experienced Windows. Because of my profession I have always been a Mac man and am totally ignorant in this subject but have always followed Microsoft's adventures.

And here comes a new one:
* by the way, it does go with this threads topic.

Early look at Windows 8 baffles consumers - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57536402/early-look-at-windows-8-baffles-consumers/)

Daniel

21st October 2012, 07:00

But.... You can just press the start button on your keyboard ffs!!!!

Daniel

21st October 2012, 08:18

How do you mean do you have to view windows 8 with the tile shortcuts on the screen? Yes you can have the start.menu back but it's completely unnecessary

BleAivano

21st October 2012, 11:52

Apple's logo is considered 'blasphemo?us' in Russia as a sign of sinful behavior (http://www.phonearena.com/news/Apples-logo-is-considered-blasphemous--in-Russia-as-a-sign-of-sinful-behavior_id35701)
Orthodox Russians Change the Logo of Apple on Their Smartphones (http://redhotrussia.com/apple-company-anti-christian/)

They seem to be even more conservative then the neo-christians in the south-USA bible belt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Belt). ;)

Daniel

21st October 2012, 20:34

Just had a read up on this and pleased the classic look is still an option. I can see the appeal of the new start screen and maybe it will appeal in time, but personally I prefer the classic start menu for my organisation. When I'm using CAD packages I'm just used to launching other applications from the start menu without the new to minimize to access a start screen. Can see that being a bit of a pain in the backside. Just personal preference really and one day I'll be using Windows 8 so its reassuring to know.

Well, I know this sounds like a copout, but the physical start menu icon on the screen has been obsolete since Vista. Since vista you could press the start key on the keyboard and begin typing the name of your program and then if it's the only option in the search box, then just press enter.

So for instance if you want to open the windows calculator you simply press the start key on the keyboard and type calc then enter and the calculator is open :) Much quicker than moving your mouse to the start icon, pressing it and then locating your app. It's the same process in terms of keystrokes in Windows 8, only that in effect, the start menu is full screen.

Another real world example. Let's say Henners has Audacity, Autocad and a madeup program we'll call autopilot. Start key and then aud, autoc or autop and then a press of the enter key and he can launch any of those three apps. All without having to use the mouse at all :) Using the mouse is for dummies!

The concept is actually exactly the same as Vista and Windows 7, it's just that it looks different on the screen. But the keystrokes are identical and it's far more efficient than using the mouse :)

donKey jote

21st October 2012, 20:45

alternatively, as I found out by chance the other day in Windows 7 at least:
if you have any applications pinned to the taskbar, you just press windows and 1 for the first, windows +2 for the second, etcetera :dozey:

Daniel

21st October 2012, 20:46

Malbec

22nd October 2012, 11:21

Daniel

22nd October 2012, 15:29

Here's a great 'concise' article about the patenting system globally and how the mobile phone companies are using/misusing it:

Apple, Samsung, Google and the smartphone patent wars - everything you need to know | Technology | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/22/smartphone-patent-wars-explained)

Be warned, its not short or simple even though its a simplification of whats going on.

Exposes some of the simplistic ideas some people here seem to hold for what they are.

I'm sorry but that misses the point. We need to ask firstly whether these patents should be granted in the first place (the article seems to happily tell you that you shouldn't bother with whether they should have been granted in the first place). Just because the system is in place doesn't mean it is just or correct. That would be like excusing the Holocaust because Hitler exploited a law which meant it was legal to gas Jews at exactly midnight when there's a full moon. I know that's a ridiculous example, but we really do need to ask whether you should be able to get patents for the general look of a device or something as basic as slide to unlock. I mean come on. It's a button that slides!!!!!!! If Apple invents 5g and it's 10x faster than 4g then they should be allowed to protect it of course. But most of the Apple stuff that I've seen patents for is either vapourware, ie they never actually bring it to fruition, or is stuff that really isn't patent worthy.

BleAivano

22nd October 2012, 16:09

I'm sorry but that misses the point. We need to ask firstly whether these patents should be granted in the first place (the article seems to happily tell you that you shouldn't bother with whether they should have been granted in the first place). Just because the system is in place doesn't mean it is just or correct. That would be like excusing the Holocaust because Hitler exploited a law which meant it was legal to gas Jews at exactly midnight when there's a full moon. I know that's a ridiculous example, but we really do need to ask whether you should be able to get patents for the general look of a device or something as basic as slide to unlock. I mean come on. It's a button that slides!!!!!!! If Apple invents 5g and it's 10x faster than 4g then they should be allowed to protect it of course. But most of the Apple stuff that I've seen patents for is either vapourware, ie they never actually bring it to fruition, or is stuff that really isn't patent worthy.

like basic/generic shapes such as a rectangle with rounded corners and a display in the middle.

Malbec

22nd October 2012, 16:22

like basic/generic shapes such as a rectangle with rounded corners and a display in the middle.

This isn't a patent issue so I'm struggling to see what point you're trying to make.

Malbec

22nd October 2012, 16:29

I'm sorry but that misses the point. We need to ask firstly whether these patents should be granted in the first place (the article seems to happily tell you that you shouldn't bother with whether they should have been granted in the first place)..

Why shouldn't patents be granted?

Why should a company or an individual not have a development they've invested considerable money and effort in not be rewarded by having it protected from copying?

What incentive would there be for any company to develop anything whatsoever if they knew any competitor could simply copy and sell it without having to pay the development costs?

I really don't understand your position here. Patenting pretty much underpins capitalism. It really is that important.

Take a look at the Indian pharmaceutical industry. India specifically refuses to recognise international drug patents. They have one of the biggest pharmaceutical industries in the world. In 60 years they have not developed a single drug. Not one. Why should they bother if they know their competitors are legally allowed to copy them the day their product is brought to market.

Now look at the Western pharmaceutical industry which is tightly regulated by patents. Every single new drug in the modern era has been developed by it because companies are secure in the knowledge that their investment will be recouped for a period of exclusivity while their drug patent applies.

It's a button that slides!!!!!!! If Apple invents 5g and it's 10x faster than 4g then they should be allowed to protect it of course. But most of the Apple stuff that I've seen patents for is either vapourware, ie they never actually bring it to fruition, or is stuff that really isn't patent worthy.

Isn't it curious that you focus on Apple when the article mentions several different cases involving all the major makers? Did you actually read the article in full (I accept its long and dry)? I suspect not.

Daniel

22nd October 2012, 16:57

Why shouldn't patents be granted?

Why should a company or an individual not have a development they've invested considerable money and effort in not be rewarded by having it protected from copying?

What incentive would there be for any company to develop anything whatsoever if they knew any competitor could simply copy and sell it without having to pay the development costs?

I really don't understand your position here. Patenting pretty much underpins capitalism. It really is that important.

Take a look at the Indian pharmaceutical industry. India specifically refuses to recognise international drug patents. They have one of the biggest pharmaceutical industries in the world. In 60 years they have not developed a single drug. Not one. Why should they bother if they know their competitors are legally allowed to copy them the day their product is brought to market.

Now look at the Western pharmaceutical industry which is tightly regulated by patents. Every single new drug in the modern era has been developed by it because companies are secure in the knowledge that their investment will be recouped for a period of exclusivity while their drug patent applies.

Isn't it curious that you focus on Apple when the article mentions several different cases involving all the major makers? Did you actually read the article in full (I accept its long and dry)? I suspect not.

Even I didn't have time to read all of that. Are you seriously comparing the development of life saving drugs to slide to unlock? :dozey: You simply shouldn't be able to patent the most basic of things like a button sliding for a certain purpose or the general shape of an object, especially when that shape is rectangular with rounded corners. This article -> Apple v. Samsung: The Rights To Rectangles - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/edblack/2012/08/08/apple-samsung-rights-to-rectangles/) describes it well in that some things such as the rectangular shape of a phone are so intrinsic to innovation as to make them un-patentable. It's not like Apple even invented something that didn't exist. As I've pointed out MANY times and you seem to ignore each time, the LG Prada pre-dates the iPhone by months and has the same rectangular design with rounded corners on a touchscreen smartphone......... Would a drug company ever be able to get a patent on a drug that another company developed and had on the market for months or years? Should they be able to get that patent?

Daniel

22nd October 2012, 17:05

This isn't a patent issue so I'm struggling to see what point you're trying to make.

Errrrr, you do realise that Apple have actually patented the shape of the iPad and iPhone right? So this is a patent issue.....

Daniel

22nd October 2012, 17:09

Again.... I post this Has Apple Really Ever Invented Anything? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFeC25BM9E0)

Daniel

22nd October 2012, 17:16

Then there's this, which is contained in the above video, buy you seem intent on ignoring it. Magsafe, which to be fair is a FANTASTIC idea, but which is stolen from Japanese rice cookers which had a magnetic latch on the power adaptor because if someone pulls on the cable you don't want a cooker full of rice going everywhere. Yet somehow Apple get a patent on this -> Steve Jobs and the power of association | The Innovation Secrets of Steve Jobs (http://www.director.co.uk/ONLINE/2010/09_10_innovation_secrets_of_steve_jobs.html) I mean really....

Malbec

22nd October 2012, 17:18

Errrrr, you do realise that Apple have actually patented the shape of the iPad and iPhone right? So this is a patent issue.....

Read the article. It might help.

The shape and look of Apple products is not a technology. It isn't a patenting issue.

Its a trademarking issue.

Daniel

22nd October 2012, 17:18

This thread just repeats! Has Samsung actually invented anything in this field, have any of them? They all feed off each other! lol Samsung only added voice software because Apple did and Apple have copied many things off the likes of HTC too. Circular motions, circular motions.

Agree. The thing is, I can't remember who put the first colour screen on a phone, but everyone did it afterwards. Were they cheap copycats and should they have come up with something different? Not really. Like I said if someone makes some technology which makes for faster wireless communication then they should be allowed to protect it. Invent a different way of swiping your finger to unlock your phone? Personally I don't feel that should be protected.....

Daniel

22nd October 2012, 17:20

Read the article. It might help.

The shape and look of Apple products is not a technology. It isn't a patenting issue.

Its a trademarking issue.
Patent USD504889 - Electronic device - Google Patents (http://www.google.com/patents?id=6BsWAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false) apology accepted btw :)

Malbec

22nd October 2012, 17:21

Even I didn't have time to read all of that. Are you seriously comparing the development of life saving drugs to slide to unlock? :dozey:

Says the guy who managed to slide in a Holocaust reference when discussing Apple ;)

You simply shouldn't be able to patent the most basic of things like a button sliding for a certain purpose or the general shape of an object, especially when that shape is rectangular with rounded corners. This article -> Apple v. Samsung: The Rights To Rectangles - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/edblack/2012/08/08/apple-samsung-rights-to-rectangles/) describes it well in that some things such as the rectangular shape of a phone are so intrinsic to innovation as to make them un-patentable. It's not like Apple even invented something that didn't exist. As I've pointed out MANY times and you seem to ignore each time, the LG Prada pre-dates the iPhone by months and has the same rectangular design with rounded corners on a touchscreen smartphone......... Would a drug company ever be able to get a patent on a drug that another company developed and had on the market for months or years? Should they be able to get that patent?

You're confusing trademarking with patenting again.

Daniel

22nd October 2012, 17:24

Says the guy who managed to slide in a Holocaust reference when discussing Apple ;)

You're confusing trademarking with patenting again.
Hilarious, Malbec, come back when you understand the facts of the story -> Patent USD504889 - Electronic device - Google Patents (http://www.google.com/patents?id=6BsWAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false) Apology accepted when it comes btw......

Daniel

22nd October 2012, 17:25

Says the guy who managed to slide in a Holocaust reference when discussing Apple ;)

Says the man who refuses to acknowledge facts :) BTW This is a 2nd time I've used a holocaust reference on a forum today and the other wasn't in reference to Apple, it's just a good basis for an analogy because you can in no way justify the killing of Jews.

Malbec

22nd October 2012, 17:26

Patent USD504889 - Electronic device - Google Patents (http://www.google.com/patents?id=6BsWAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false) apology accepted btw :)

Sigh...

I admit that some countries refer to trademarking licencing as being patents which does nothing to clarify issues. However the legal issues are entirely different.

As I said, read the article. Its pretty fair and very illuminating.

Daniel

22nd October 2012, 17:28

Sigh...

I admit that some countries refer to trademarking licencing as being patents which does nothing to clarify issues. However the legal issues are entirely different.

As I said, read the article. Its pretty fair and very illuminating.

So you think that Apple should be able to patent things which aren't actually patents etc etc etc etc etc :dozey: They have a patent for a rectangular device with rounded corners. That be fact and you be trying to ignore that fact for some inexplicable reason.

Malbec

22nd October 2012, 17:29

Agree. The thing is, I can't remember who put the first colour screen on a phone, but everyone did it afterwards. Were they cheap copycats and should they have come up with something different? Not really. Like I said if someone makes some technology which makes for faster wireless communication then they should be allowed to protect it. Invent a different way of swiping your finger to unlock your phone? Personally I don't feel that should be protected.....

How do you feel about developing a technology that becomes part of a globally recognised standard (like wi-fi, bluetooth) then refusing to allow your competitors to use your technology, effectively blocking their usage of that standard? Is that acceptable?

Daniel

22nd October 2012, 17:40

Taking a technology from one industry and applying it to a new product is a form of innovation because its a totally different application. If it was protected fully then they wouldn't have been able to use it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think it is innovative, but it's not inventive and it's inventions that should be covered by patents and not innovation.

Malbec

22nd October 2012, 17:41

So you think that Apple should be able to patent things which aren't actually patents etc etc etc etc etc :dozey: They have a patent for a rectangular device with rounded corners. That be fact and you be trying to ignore that fact for some inexplicable reason.

Here. Design patents, trademarking and how it differs from technology patents.

Groklaw - A Very Short Primer on Design Patents and Trade Dress (Apple v. Samsung) by Michael Risch (http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120814110227662)

Note that I'm not defending Apple. I think the recent UK court's decision to force Apple to publicly acknowledge Samsung WASN'T copying is great. It raises the cost of entry for such legal cases and punishes Apple for taking the mickey by taking action in two EU states at once when it is not allowed to do so.

However I do think that actually trying to UNDERSTAND what is going on is pretty important. It isn't as simple as you and some of your friends try to portray.

Daniel

22nd October 2012, 17:41

How do you feel about developing a technology that becomes part of a globally recognised standard (like wi-fi, bluetooth) then refusing to allow your competitors to use your technology, effectively blocking their usage of that standard? Is that acceptable?
Of course not, but how would you feel if I patented lungs and then didn't allow you to use yours? You'd probably do anything you could to get back at me.......

Malbec

22nd October 2012, 17:43

I think it is innovative, but it's not inventive and it's inventions that should be covered by patents and not innovation.

Your opinion is fine. Now get a court to believe the same thing and you've got a proper case on your hands. Good luck!

Henners is right by the way. Ricecookers and computers are different industries and therefore the use of the magnet would represent a different useage.

Likewise for drug patents using the very same drug for an entirely new purpose requires a completely fresh patent reapplication.

How you want things to be and how the legal system is set up are two entirely different things.

Daniel

22nd October 2012, 17:44

Here. Design patents, trademarking and how it differs from technology patents.

Groklaw - A Very Short Primer on Design Patents and Trade Dress (Apple v. Samsung) by Michael Risch (http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120814110227662)

Note that I'm not defending Apple. I think the recent UK court's decision to force Apple to publicly acknowledge Samsung WASN'T copying is great. It raises the cost of entry for such legal cases and punishes Apple for taking the mickey by taking action in two EU states at once when it is not allowed to do so.

However I do think that actually trying to UNDERSTAND what is going on is pretty important. It isn't as simple as you and some of your friends try to portray.

So let me get this straight and correct me if I'm wrong here. You want me to understand what you feel is essentially a trademark dispute which in the US worked out in favour of Apple, by reading an article about patents (which you quite rightly distinguish from trademarking) and you feel that the courts in the UK were right to deny Apple..... I'm sorry but that just makes no sense.

Malbec

22nd October 2012, 17:45

Of course not, but how would you feel if I patented lungs and then didn't allow you to use yours? You'd probably do anything you could to get back at me.......

You'd be quite upset if a company did that right?

So why aren't you upset that thats what Samsung is doing as part of its case against Apple? Or Motorola against Microsoft?

Daniel

22nd October 2012, 17:45

Your opinion is fine. Now get a court to believe the same thing and you've got a proper case on your hands. Good luck!

Henners is right by the way. Ricecookers and computers are different industries and therefore the use of the magnet would represent a different useage.

Likewise for drug patents using the very same drug for an entirely new purpose requires a completely fresh patent reapplication.

How you want things to be and how the legal system is set up are two entirely different things.

Is it really a different industry? One could argue that they're both products which stop your electrical device being pulled off a table or worktop......

Daniel

22nd October 2012, 17:48

You'd be quite upset if a company did that right?

So why aren't you upset that thats what Samsung is doing as part of its case against Apple? Or Motorola against Microsoft?

The thing you don't get is this, Apple started this big bunfight. It wasn't nice of the US to drop atomic weapons on Japan, but Japan started it and the US was merely using what was available to them to win the conflict. If I was Samsung I'd use any legal action to defend myself from Apple and/or attack Apple.

Malbec

22nd October 2012, 17:49

So let me get this straight and correct me if I'm wrong here. You want me to understand what you feel is essentially a trademark dispute which in the US worked out in favour of Apple, by reading an article about patents (which you quite rightly distinguish from trademarking) and you feel that the courts in the UK were right to deny Apple..... I'm sorry but that just makes no sense.

It makes no sense to you because you're viewing everything I write in terms of pro/anti-Apple. You think I'm pro-Apple as do CR, Bleivano etc etc which is why you find it confusing I'm glad that Apple had its knuckles rapped.

I posted the article because its a genuinely informative piece explaining the process involved between the many companies using patents as a tool with which to hit each other. My points against you are that you seem to believe in a very simplified version of whats going on, essentially that its Apple thats at fault or being trivial. I'm suggesting you look at the bigger picture. Thats all.

Malbec

22nd October 2012, 17:50

Is it really a different industry? One could argue that they're both products which stop your electrical device being pulled off a table or worktop......

Ricecookers are domestic appliances.

Computers are computers.

These are entirely different industrial sectors....

Malbec

22nd October 2012, 17:57

The thing you don't get is this, Apple started this big bunfight. It wasn't nice of the US to drop atomic weapons on Japan, but Japan started it and the US was merely using what was available to them to win the conflict. If I was Samsung I'd use any legal action to defend myself from Apple and/or attack Apple.

Hilarious.

Apple are just one party. The majority of litigation globally in this field doesn't even involve Apple. Nor was Apple the first to sue over smartphones (That was Nokia successfully suing Apple in a very clever case where they acted slowly and asked for compensation per unit sold rather than blocking iPhone sales. Apple delayed settling then had to pay a much much higher fee as they had sold millions of iPhones in the interval).

I do think Apple is being far too aggressive which is why the UK ruling is good, but they are hardly the only party. Try getting some perspective. As the article I linked to points out though, Apple is starting to realise the negative implications of their court cases on PR and promoting Samsung as a primary competing brand so hopefully they will calm down a bit.

BTW your references to genuinely horrific events like the Holocaust and the A-bombs in this discussion are pretty tasteless and demeaning. These are just multinationals suing each other for a quick buck, not the killing of hundreds of thousands, millions of people.

BleAivano

22nd October 2012, 18:57

As a designer I strongly disagree with that. We'd never be able to advance in anything we did if that were the case because nothing would be protected.

Who ever said that "nothing" would be able to be patented?. The discussions is about that some things are not innovative enough
to warrant a patent, especially if you did not invent it in the first place. The slide to unlock is such a thing.

The trademark is the same thing basically. You cannot trademark/copyright basic shapes like a rectangular piece of metallic or plastic with a rectangular
or quadratic display since that is how mobile phones have looked like the past 15-20 years or so. Not to mention TVs.

However something like the apple logo is what should be trademarked. Because its an unique design. a rectangular surf pad is not unique
Because there are a allot of other products that looks just like it,

The latest couple of years screens have grown in size and the physical keys have been removed but apart from that the phones look pretty much the same,

ioan

22nd October 2012, 19:20

You're confusing trademarking with patenting again.

LOL. Did you even check his link. :rolleyes:

ioan

22nd October 2012, 19:23

Ricecookers are domestic appliances.

Computers are computers.

These are entirely different industrial sectors....

They might be a different industry, however the idea and the implementation is the same. It looks to me that you aren't really getting the simplest things.

ioan

22nd October 2012, 19:25

Who ever said that "nothing" would be able to be patented?. The discussions is about that some things are not innovative enough
to warrant a patent, especially if you did not invent it in the first place.

Exactly. Whatever has been already invented shouldn't be allowed to be patented by someone who claims that they re-invented it.
In teh end it's all about common sense, or lack of it due to never imagined levels of greed combined with unbelievable levels of stupidity in today's society.

ioan

22nd October 2012, 19:26

This discussion has remained heated but mature so far ioan. Lets not ruin it.

Ahem! :rolleyes:

Malbec

22nd October 2012, 19:49

James Dyson innovated a dual cyclone technology used in large scale extractors and applied it to a vacuum cleaner. No other vacuum cleaner manufacturer had done that before and he protected himself within that industry. He didn't invent the cyclone but was innovative enough to apply it to a totally different application. The design wasn't copied, it was the idea that was. Other vacuum cleaner manufacturers tried to copy it (most notably Hoover) and were sued for many millions of pounds. He patented his use of the idea and opened it up in later years once he had dominated the market using that technology. This example is no different to mobile companies applying ideas within their sector and this method has been used since products have been called products. Innovation has always been protected whether its an invention or not. Innovating something also demands as much respect as inventing something because it all goes towards the same goal. I have one patent to my name, but I have ripped off many other unprotected inventions in my time. Its how it works. :)

Funnily enough I was thinking of Dyson too because he had to go through a legal nightmare to protect his patents and his brand identity.

He was on the radio the other day talking about how he had to sue any vacuum cleaner maker that had started to use clear plastic and bold bright colours on their machines to protect his brand. He was pretty blunt about the need to be aggressive in protecting his investment but I guess you could flip it around and say he was trying to monopolise purple, green and yellow....

Its just par for the course.

Malbec

22nd October 2012, 19:51

They might be a different industry, however the idea and the implementation is the same. It looks to me that you aren't really getting the simplest things.

Try telling that to the patents office. What you or I think is irrelevant. This is how the system works globally.

Malbec

22nd October 2012, 19:57

The trademark is the same thing basically. You cannot trademark/copyright basic shapes like a rectangular piece of metallic or plastic with a rectangular
or quadratic display since that is how mobile phones have looked like the past 15-20 years or so. Not to mention TVs.

This is utterly wrong.

I have an HTC Sensation. This is clearly part of the same family as the Desire before and the One X after. In fact all HTC Android phones share a similar design language so that you know they are from the same family.

Equally Apple have a strong design language for their iPhones. You may not be able to tell which particular model it is at first glance but you'd be lying if you told me you couldn't tell it was an Apple.

Sony have introduced a 'thinner in the middle' design language. Again in the showroom they visibly differ from rivals.

Looking back 15-20 years and there was similar product differentiation. Ericsson used pastel colours. Sony's were predominantly silver/blue. Nokias were wider at the top and had very distinctive button shapes not to mention an instantly recognisable default ringtone. All were instantly recognisable as being from particular brands.

Not only are the differences obvious to the casual observer but they are recognised by trademark offices around the world where designs are submitted months and years before launch (the link Daniel gave for the Apple iPad trademark application predates the actual launch by 5 years) and rejected if too obviously similar to an existing competing product.

Malbec

22nd October 2012, 20:04

We don't seem to mind when car companies and vacuum cleaner manufacturers do it, but the passion surrounding Apple pro or against seems to have suggested its somehow a special case. Its not :)

I agree.

I'm surprised some here aren't going nuts about Cadburys vs the Vatican's official chocolate maker that lost a legal case to carry on using Imperial purple to wrap its chocolates used in religious services. Cadburys vs God, surely that should ruffle a few feathers no?

ioan

22nd October 2012, 22:58

We don't seem to mind when car companies and vacuum cleaner manufacturers do it, but the passion surrounding Apple pro or against seems to have suggested its somehow a special case. Its not :)

Sure sure. So when did anyone try to patent the general shape of car? Or the number of wheels? Or the number of the doors?! And so on...
It's people who think like you who make such nonsense patenting reality.

ioan

22nd October 2012, 22:59

I agree.

I'm surprised some here aren't going nuts about Cadburys vs the Vatican's official chocolate maker that lost a legal case to carry on using Imperial purple to wrap its chocolates used in religious services. Cadburys vs God, surely that should ruffle a few feathers no?

Well that's just another example of complete lack of common sense.

BleAivano

23rd October 2012, 00:15

Malbec

23rd October 2012, 07:29

So some say that without patents, the whole innovation would thing stop.

So tell me then, who has the patent for:

the wheel?, ladder?, nails(those sharp things made of metal, not the things on your fingers), sail?, rudder?
steering/helms wheel?, mast?, bath?, toilet?, chair?, table?, carriage?, ploughs?, door?,window?
roof?, ski?, shoe?, musket?, bow+arrow?, cannon?, fork?, knife?, spoon?, glass?, plate?, road?, oar?,boat?

As Henners said all this displays is a total lack of understanding of the most basic principles of the patenting process.

Name a single part of your computer that does not have a patent. In fact, name a single thing developed in the modern era that doesn't.

Patenting isn't a secret process, the information is out there to educate yourself about it. Why don't you?

Big Ben

23rd October 2012, 07:45

Easy there malbec boy... I have a patent for high horses.

BleAivano

23rd October 2012, 10:57

When were those things invented? Most of those objects are many hundreds of years old so my questions to you are: when were patents introduced, and how long does a patent last? If you understood the patent system then you wouldn't have given such examples. Come on guys we're discussing technology relevant to the last 10 or so years where the patent system applies.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh really? you don't say? But how is that possble?

You and Malbec keeps saying that without patent there would be no inventing.

Guess what? I just proved you wrong. As these objects clearly were invented without patent.

Malbec

23rd October 2012, 12:12

You've completely misunderstood evidently. Once again the mix up between innovating and inventing seems to be apparent. I'm finding it very difficult to discuss this with someone who is unfamiliar with the process. Comparing inventions that are several hundred years old with modern electronics covered by the present day patenting system is largely irrelevant and your point is lost on me.

I have at no point said 'without patents there would be no inventing' and you are free to quote me on that. Inventing is still a large part of modern society but those who do, have the capabilities to protect their intellectual property. If they don't, then they have to expect it to be stolen in a fully legal way.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Likewise I find it impossible to discuss this subject with someone so unfamiliar with this basic concept. Nor have I claimed that no patents means no invention. Patenting protects and promotes innovation but there are no absolutes in economics.

I'm sure I will again be attacked for being condescending but Bleiavano we're talking about a basic concept of economics that should be taught at the age of 16 or so. It is merely an extension of the most fundamental principle in economics, that people should be justly rewarded for their labour.

Read this wikipedia article about the principle of intellectual property:

Intellectual property - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property)

donKey jote

23rd October 2012, 18:08

Mark

23rd October 2012, 19:40

Apple just launched the iPad Mini. Looks nice and IMO the proper size and weight for a tablet. The proper iPad has always been far too big.

Hefty price tag at £269 for a 16gb model but that was to be expected!

race aficionado

23rd October 2012, 20:10

I don't have an iPad.
:(

Yet! :)

donKey jote

23rd October 2012, 20:17

I just ordered a SIII, and am still thinking about an iPad for Christmas... 24 Month contract for ~900€ over the 2 years for the 16GB model (costs ~550&#8364 ;) with a 3GB flat internet rate :dozey:

Mark

23rd October 2012, 20:25

Whereas I've always thought the iPad is too big and too heavy so the Mini looks about right for me.

donKey jote

23rd October 2012, 20:36

hmm... looks like I'll be waiting for quotes on the iPad 4 :p

Andrewmcm

23rd October 2012, 23:15

I'll be interested to see how the iPad Mini does. I was far more interested in the new iMacs, which seem to be the big leap forward in today's Apple Keynote. I'm very much looking forward to playing with one of those.

ioan

23rd October 2012, 23:40

So some say that without patents, the whole innovation would thing stop.

Yep, absolutely false.

In fact Innovation should be used to steal a step on the competition and cash in on it, and not to patent old ideas and then try to keep others from re-inventing the same old idea in a slightly different way.

Anyway, Apple likes to take people for idiots and in many cases they manage to do it successfully and their patent war approach and semi-success is built on all the bad attributes of our society: lack of common sense and hyper-idiocy.

ioan

23rd October 2012, 23:41

hmm... looks like I'll be waiting for quotes on the iPad 4 :p
I didn't even know here was an iPad 3.

ioan

23rd October 2012, 23:43

I don't have an iPad.
:(

Yet! :)

Lucky you. You still have the choice to get something better. ;)

ioan

23rd October 2012, 23:46

BBC News - US Apple bounce-back patents ruled invalid (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20040549)

Finally a glimpse of common sense. I've had already given up on it.

BleAivano

24th October 2012, 00:36

Anyone who understands patents and design patents surely also knows that they're not necessarily only used to protect one's own inventions or designs.
Often enough, they can be used solely for the purpose of preventing others from using them (stimie their innovation ;) ), as "swaps" for patents in a competitor's hand, or as ways to send competitors on wild goose chases.
Yes I also have a couple to my name :andrea: :dozey:

The really important stuff often goes unpatented as that would give others a hint at your secrets and the possibility of a workaround.

I wonder how much the system is abused by the likes of both Apple and Samsung, and (their) patent lawyers :)

BBC News - US Apple bounce-back patents ruled invalid (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20040549)

I actually have an example for that.

In Sweden we have a soft drink called (jul)must (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julmust). The exact recipe are a well guarded secret by the family who owns it. (http://www.realtid.se/ArticlePages/200612/18/20061218142230_Realtid785/20061218142230_Realtid785.dbp.asp)
They have opted to not "patent" the recipe since that would mean that they would have to reveal the exact content of the recipe.

Mark

24th October 2012, 08:55

hmm... looks like I'll be waiting for quotes on the iPad 4 :p

The iPad 4 is out!

Wi-Fi
16GB £399
32GB £479
64GB £559
Wi-Fi + Cellular
16GB £499
32GB £579
64GB £659

Daniel

24th October 2012, 09:34

I actually have an example for that.

In Sweden we have a soft drink called (jul)must (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julmust). The exact recipe are a well guarded secret by the family who owns it. (http://www.realtid.se/ArticlePages/200612/18/20061218142230_Realtid785/20061218142230_Realtid785.dbp.asp)
They have opted to not "patent" the recipe since that would mean that they would have to reveal the exact content of the recipe.

That is of course different :)

If you patent something then when the patent expires, your product is more or less worthless as everyone will be able to make it the same way. Not a problem for the technology industry as things will have moved on by then, but if you're Heinz and you make zillions a year from your tomato sauce then you want it to carry on for as long as possible.

Daniel

24th October 2012, 09:51

As Henners said all this displays is a total lack of understanding of the most basic principles of the patenting process.

Name a single part of your computer that does not have a patent. In fact, name a single thing developed in the modern era that doesn't.

Patenting isn't a secret process, the information is out there to educate yourself about it. Why don't you?

There's a difference though. I'm sure there were patents for when the optical sensor for mice was developed and also the laser mouse. The thing that Apple seem to be able to do is get patents for silly things like the general shape of something and anyone who makes something similar gets their butts kicked in a US court (note that it generally seems to be US courts where these sort of rulings take place)

Crap like this needs to stop and Apple needs to let its product do the talking. Logitech are famous for their kidney bean shaped mice which fit well in your hand. Other companies are free to roughly imitate the shape of a logitech mouse (it's the sensible shape for a mouse!) if they want to and they do, anyone caught releasing a carbon copy would of course be sued, but Logitech products stand up by virtue of them being quality products which do their job well.

Apple should start making products that make people not want to buy competitors products :)

Daniel

24th October 2012, 09:53

The iPad 4 is out!

Wi-Fi
16GB £399
32GB £479
64GB £559
Wi-Fi + Cellular
16GB £499
32GB £579
64GB £659

Why have Apple chosen to be so confusing with names with the iPad?

iPad
iPad 2
The new iPad
Refreshed version of new iPad......

:crazy:

Daniel

24th October 2012, 09:55

I agree.

I'm surprised some here aren't going nuts about Cadburys vs the Vatican's official chocolate maker that lost a legal case to carry on using Imperial purple to wrap its chocolates used in religious services. Cadburys vs God, surely that should ruffle a few feathers no?

There's a difference here. That purple is uniquely associated with Cadbury chocolate. Rectangles with corners which we look at and think "APPLE!!!!!!!"

Robinho

24th October 2012, 09:57

I actually have an example for that.

In Sweden we have a soft drink called (jul)must (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julmust). The exact recipe are a well guarded secret by the family who owns it. (http://www.realtid.se/ArticlePages/200612/18/20061218142230_Realtid785/20061218142230_Realtid785.dbp.asp)
They have opted to not "patent" the recipe since that would mean that they would have to reveal the exact content of the recipe.

The difference being that no-one would want to know how to make Julmust, apart from to make sure that mixture of ingredients is not allowed to see the light of day - horrible stuff, eugghhh

Daniel

24th October 2012, 10:02

As Henners said all this displays is a total lack of understanding of the most basic principles of the patenting process.

Name a single part of your computer that does not have a patent. In fact, name a single thing developed in the modern era that doesn't.

Patenting isn't a secret process, the information is out there to educate yourself about it. Why don't you?

Here's an example of something I consider worthy of trademarking.

http://www.pause.com/wp-content/gallery/08-07-23-samsung/08-07-23-samsung-ps-50a750.jpg

The Samsung "Touch of Colour" styling is unique and obviously a Samsung thing. Walk into a Currys or Comet and see a TV or monitor with that styling and you know it's a Samsung product.

If you saw a phone with a glass front and back and a metal band around it you'd know that it was an iPhone 4/4s. This is something I think is unique to Apple and which I feel that they should be able to patent. However I do not thing that the shape of the previous iPhones was anything unique at all and they shouldn't have been allowed to sue Samsung for something as general as the rough shape of their products.....

Daniel

24th October 2012, 10:09

A different way of explaining what I was trying to say earlier, cheers :)
I think Coke and Pepsi is another good example of a recipe that was kept secret for decades. Its just an industry that patenting doesn't suit.

Definitely.

Don't get me wrong, I think that patenting is a good thing and trademarking too. I like the fact that I can go pretty much anywhere in the world and buy a black drink in a coke bottle shaped bottle and know that I'm getting Coke (well, you'd hope!!!!) :) and it would be a sad day when companies could just copy products to the exact detail and exploit the ignorance of those who don't know any better.

Daniel

24th October 2012, 10:17

I agree some patents awarded were down right silly but the question needs to be directed at the US patent office who issued it rather than blaming the company. If the patent was refused in the first place, then they'd have no case to answer. Is it a fault of the system or is it easier to blame a manufacturer like Samsung or Apple for being petty? That's the interesting part I think.

In my opinion they do already, just not every single person on earth agrees. If they accomplished that, it would be a first for any manufacturer in history. There are plenty of people like me who have been tempted away from their rivals and are happy to buy their products. If everyone thought like me though, there wouldn't be a competitive market.

But I think their aggressive protection of their products with some dubious patents/trademarks has harmed us in terms of competition. What happened to the Apple that brought things to market like the clickwheel (not an apple invention btw!) which was a far superior method of controlling your MP3 player than anything else I've seen. I had a U2 edition iPod and loved it, it was a great product although let down by iTunes and Apple's control freakishness :)

I agree that it's the patent office that really needs to be pulled up on this, but it takes two to tango and I think Apple does seem to push the boat out when it comes to vague patents.

Daniel

24th October 2012, 10:40

I own 2 Samsung TV's and the one in my lounge has the red round it like the one in the picture. A nice product and agree it should have a patent for that very reason.

I think the rounded corners and black surround case came to light when the first Samsung Galaxy came out and lets be honest it was very similar in appearance to the iPhone 3G at the time apart from a rectangular button. Samsung have since moved away from this type of aesthetic and developed their own style. It was a silly court battle but it appears to have pushed Samsung's innovation in a good direction. The S3 is a lovely looking phone so you could say that particular court case did the job nicely. I doubt that type of patent would be awarded now due to the damages paid out. It would be an easy return on the money, :)

Should people be able to patent minimalism though? I'll admit that the S1 and 3gs are quite similar. But when you put out a product that is so basic in design, I really don't feel that you should be able to protect it, because, well..... it's just a very basic design. I bought 2 2l bottles of Pepsi last night and I could be wrong, but they're pretty much the same as the 2l bottles of pop that all drinks come in. They're hardly designed at all are they?

Daniel

24th October 2012, 10:49

Thing is its not just Apple being aggressive. HTC, Samsung, Nokia and Motorola are doing exactly the same, although Apple probably started it all off. Google purchased Motorola originally to acquire its patents. Credit needs to be given to Apple for pushing the touch screen phone market in this direction and I think the reason they have been so aggressive is because its rivals have done so well. Lets not forget how crap touch screen phones were pre-2007. I had the LG Prada, and a previous LG before that and they were terrible in terms of responsiveness and the software was awful. I also had the Nokia Xpress music which I loved, but it quickly became dated. The iPhone kicked everyone up the bum and thankfully we have a market with so much choice. This whole patent war will no doubt force a change in the patenting system worldwide but if there are weaknesses then its the manufacturers job to exploit it. It does need to change. There's no gentlemen's agreements at this level regardless of how many consumers cry foul when they think they are not getting the products they want. :)

I agree completely. It isn't just Apple, but Apple seems to be the one getting big judgements for some rather silly patents.

Caroline had the same Nokia as the one you mentioned, it was good at the start and then.... well it wasn't!

I agree that Apple pushed the boat out and took touchscreen phones to the next level. Just like Audi, Toyota, Ford and Lancia brought 4wd turbo road cars to the masses in the 80's and early 90's but then they were eclipsed by Mitsubishi and Subaru who brought out cars which were better for the money and ended up more popular.

Would we be in a better place if Audi had been granted a patent on using turbocharging and 4wd together in a road car? *strokes chin*