Mobile phones & tablets thread

[henners88]

I haven't used IE for years either apart from when I've used someone else's computer at work but it never seems to impress. I'm using Firefox and chrome at the moment, both seem to be as good as each other. It's different for everybody though as they all seem to deliver the same thing differently.

[Daniel]

I use Firefox as well, but ie works on 99% of sites anyway so ie is fine for me :)

[teamleader]

Google Chrome all the way

[henners88]

I use Firefox as well, but ie works on 99% of sites anyway so ie is fine for me :)
As I said its different for everybody as we all have our preferences. I think the last time I used IE as my default browser was in 2004, maybe beginning of 2005. I know a lot of people who have stuck with IE and if it works for them then great. They all do much the same thing at the end of the day. :)

[Joey Zyla]

A certain someone on our forum seems to be quite keen on iPhones, or at least selling them. :p

[EuroTroll]

I was a Firefox man for a long time, and then I got Chrome. Now, I couldn't go back! Chrome is the best. IE? I fart in its general direction. ;)

[Joey Zyla]

I was a Firefox man for a long time, and then I got Chrome. Now, I couldn't go back! Chrome is the best. IE? I fart in its general direction. ;)

:|

[EuroTroll]

:|

Sorry mate. I just don't like it. ;)

[henners88]

I was a Firefox man for a long time, and then I got Chrome. Now, I couldn't go back! Chrome is the best. IE? I fart in its general direction. ;)
That's off a comedy sketch and I can't think which one? :)

[EuroTroll]

That's off a comedy sketch and I can't think which one? :)

Me neither. :cheese: Something from Monty Python, no doubt. :)

[Joey Zyla]

I think it's Monty Python.

EuroTroll beat me to it. :mad:

:p :

[henners88]

That's the one lol.

[henners88]

I use Chrome on my iPhone and have relegated Safari to the lesser used apps folder.

[henners88]

As an ex Android user this is something I can relate to.


HTC revamped its Sense UI after learning that most smartphone owners rarely use widgets and barely bother to customise their homescreens after the first month of tweaking.

HTC: 'Using widgets and constantly customising homescreens is so 2010' | News | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/htc-using-widgets-and-constantly-customising-homescreens-is-so-2010-1134955)

After we've placed short cuts and put apps in quickly accessible places, how many of us constantly customise our home screens? Obviously customisation is limited on iPhone to just having icons for apps on the homescreen, but having access to widgets and news feed widgets is not something I have missed from Android.

[Daniel]

Agree. I'm still sorting my tiles out, but after i do that i doubt I'll do much changing at all.

[Daniel]

And today the bbc announce that they will support wp8 and wp7.5 :) not sure if that means that the bbc site will work for video with these phones though.

[henners88]

And today the bbc announce that they will support wp8 and wp7.5 :) not sure if that means that the bbc site will work for video with these phones though.
Unfortunately its not in app form. Its a live tile that links to BBC media player but better than not having access at all.

[Daniel]

Unfortunately its not in app form. Its a live tile that links to BBC media player but better than not having access at all.

Sorry, my bad. I assumed as it had a live tile it was an app, you can put a shortcut as a live tile, but it's not really a live tile, just a shortcut.

What the functionality entails will be interesting, with it not being an app, I do wonder why they don't just make the BBC site work for WP devices?

I guess the details will come out in the future.....

Why it's not an App I don't quite understand. The BBC will have to develop an App for Windows 8 and the additional cost of development can't be too much. I saw good reason for the Beeb not to do it for WP7, but WP8 is proving to be more popular and really deserves better support.

[henners88]

I might be wrong but iPlayer don't provide a dedicated app for Blackberry either and they are the third most popular platform in the UK. Although Windows is growing they are still only supplying a small proportion of the market and there is still the fear they won't be anywhere near as popular as the market leaders, Android and iOS. I remember when I first started using Android and app's were slow coming out, and its frustrating. There is the added part where its been reported recently that a couple of hardware manufacturers have paused development on Windows phones because the OS is harder to work with than that of Android. Something Windows perhaps have in common with Apple in that respect. Its not ideal but making the site mobile friendly appears to be the cheaper alternative when there is still uncertainty over whether WP8 will be successful in the long term. One of the reasons I moved to iOS was because of app choice and the quality of app's appears to be of a higher standard. I've re-purchased a few apps I had originally on my HTC and they come with more features and run in a much more stable fashion.

[Valve Bounce]

I've been reading the posts here and I must say that I have been totally left behind in my knowledge of smart phones. Obviously from what I read above, the smart phone has already replaced the desk top and lap top computers not to mention the tablets in many of the functions available, especially those relating to recreational usage. Sure, Geeks (I say this in the most respectful manner) will always find better usage in an ultrabook powered by an i7 core. One Geek I met in Costco told me he is in the IT industry in the Ukrain, and he pointed to a Toshiba Ultrabook powered by an i5 core is more than what he needs to do his work. If he needed any programs, he didn't need a disc drive - everything is available on the internet.

[Jag_Warrior]

I've been reading the posts here and I must say that I have been totally left behind in my knowledge of smart phones.

You and me both. And while I have an iPod Touch that I use all the time, I'm still rockin' a 2003 Motorola V60i flip phone. I was determined to make it last a full 10 years - I made it! And what with my new job being different in certain ways than my previous job (if I had WiFi in my car, I could maybe hold out a bit longer!), I guess I'll have to go ahead and join the smartphone crowd later this year. I knew the day would eventually come when I'd have to bury my old friend. And now it's almost here. :(

The next iPhone is of course my likely choice. But I'm willing to look at this new Blackberry OS too. Apparently for security reasons, Android is the only OS that I can't use on the office network.

[janneppi]

My shiny new Sony Xperia V arrived today.

Black front, weirdly curvy on the back and waterproofing up the wazoo. :D

Then I realized my current SIM card won't fit in it. :arrows:

Unless I cut the old SIM card into a micro SIM, I have a tiny Wifi table for two weeks until my new operator ships me a new SIM card.

[Daniel]

I might be wrong but iPlayer don't provide a dedicated app for Blackberry either and they are the third most popular platform in the UK. Although Windows is growing they are still only supplying a small proportion of the market and there is still the fear they won't be anywhere near as popular as the market leaders, Android and iOS. I remember when I first started using Android and app's were slow coming out, and its frustrating. There is the added part where its been reported recently that a couple of hardware manufacturers have paused development on Windows phones because the OS is harder to work with than that of Android. Something Windows perhaps have in common with Apple in that respect. Its not ideal but making the site mobile friendly appears to be the cheaper alternative when there is still uncertainty over whether WP8 will be successful in the long term. One of the reasons I moved to iOS was because of app choice and the quality of app's appears to be of a higher standard. I've re-purchased a few apps I had originally on my HTC and they come with more features and run in a much more stable fashion.

Well, I think with the Lumia 920 and now the 520 and 720, Nokia are going to make some inroads.

Personally I'm not all that bothered, I would be happy if the Beeb site worked as I do sometimes miss the ability to watch videos when a story doesn't have any text, but it's no biggie.

[Daniel]

My shiny new Sony Xperia V arrived today.

Black front, weirdly curvy on the back and waterproofing up the wazoo. :D

Then I realized my current SIM card won't fit in it. :arrows:

Unless I cut the old SIM card into a micro SIM, I have a tiny Wifi table for two weeks until my new operator ships me a new SIM card.

I had a tiny wifi tablet (Lumia 800) for about a year, it's actually quite useful to have two phones. At the moment I have three, cancelling my two other contracts over the next month! :) I will still use my 800 to track exercise and listen to music on, but that'll be it.

[Daniel]

You and me both. And while I have an iPod Touch that I use all the time, I'm still rockin' a 2003 Motorola V60i flip phone. I was determined to make it last a full 10 years - I made it! And what with my new job being different in certain ways than my previous job (if I had WiFi in my car, I could maybe hold out a bit longer!), I guess I'll have to go ahead and join the smartphone crowd later this year. I knew the day would eventually come when I'd have to bury my old friend. And now it's almost here. :(

The next iPhone is of course my likely choice. But I'm willing to look at this new Blackberry OS too. Apparently for security reasons, Android is the only OS that I can't use on the office network.

10 years! That's amazing! I can't remember the longest I've had a phone for, I guess my e71 is the one that in recent years I've had for the longest, I've still got it (bought in early 2009) and was using it up until July last year, although there was a year where I didn't use it at all.

[henners88]

Well, I think with the Lumia 920 and now the 520 and 720, Nokia are going to make some inroads.
You might be right but I can't see them dominating the market as I think they joined just too late. Bill Gates admits they screwed their mobile strategy up just recently too. I mentioned a few pages back that a friend of mine had the Lumia 920 but they have since swapped for an iPhone and the others I know have very basic entry level WP8 phones. They just don't seem to have the same widespread appeal from my experience. I admit they do a very good job but lack of competitive apps and fashion appeal are making things difficult IMO. Their marketing is good and is on TV most nights I've noticed. If they were set against Android of 2 years ago I think they would be sitting comfortably in second spot behind Apple right now. The fact Blackberry RIM had a year off producing software and Hardware and are still third most successful OS can't be easy reading for Microsoft right now.

[ioan]

You might be right but I can't see them dominating the market as I think they joined just too late. Bill Gates admits they screwed their mobile strategy up just recently too. I mentioned a few pages back that a friend of mine had the Lumia 920 but they have since swapped for an iPhone and the others I know have very basic entry level WP8 phones. They just don't seem to have the same widespread appeal from my experience. I admit they do a very good job but lack of competitive apps and fashion appeal are making things difficult IMO. Their marketing is good and is on TV most nights I've noticed. If they were set against Android of 2 years ago I think they would be sitting comfortably in second spot behind Apple right now. The fact Blackberry RIM had a year off producing software and Hardware and are still third most successful OS can't be easy reading for Microsoft right now.

You can't expect them to have the highest market share after barely a couple of years.
The reason BB is still third is because of extensive business usage which doesn't change that fast cause companies will not buy employees a new shiny phone every time a new player come to the table, it has to become obsolete, brake or be lost before you get a new one.

[henners88]

I'm aware if that ioan yeah.

[ioan]

I'm aware if that ioan yeah.

So, how often did you lose your company phone?! :p

[henners88]

Not very often if ever. Smashed a couple in the past though. Writing this on my own mobile right now ;)

[henners88]

Heres a good article from an iPhone user who spent 30 days with a WP8 phone. Plenty of positive feedback.

An iPhone Lover's Take on 30 Days with Windows Phone 8 (http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2012/12/22/30-days-with-windows-phone-8-perspective-from-an-admitted-ios-addict/)

[Malbec]

I was determined to make it last a full 10 years - I made it!

Every non-smartphone I've owned has broken soon after the contract I bought it on expired, which I presumed was intentional to get me to buy a new phone on a new contract and keep demand up. Every smartphone I've had except for the HTC Desire became unusable after a similar period because they couldn't cope with the demands made on them by the OS updates they received.

You must have kept your phone hidden away in bubble wrap to get it to last so long.

I guess phone makers have learnt very well from carmakers, no point in giving too much quality and reliability because that means the consumer will be happy with what they have for too long and they won't be coming back for more in a hurry.

[Malbec]

My shiny new Sony Xperia V arrived today.

Black front, weirdly curvy on the back and waterproofing up the wazoo. :D


Are you sure its waterproofed?

One of my best friends dropped his in the sink soon after telling me that he didn't see the point in waterproofing phones. Sure enough his Xperia V stopped working once he'd fished it out. He's bought a new Xperia Z instead which most definitely is waterproof.

[Jag_Warrior]

10 years! That's amazing! I can't remember the longest I've had a phone for, I guess my e71 is the one that in recent years I've had for the longest, I've still got it (bought in early 2009) and was using it up until July last year, although there was a year where I didn't use it at all.

It's of no use, but I actually still have the first cellphone that I ever got (1990 or so) that was installed in my car. And here's something else that I just realized: every cellphone that I have ever owned has been a Motorola. That car phone was a Motorola. The StarTacs that I had in the 90's were Motorolas. My last company phones were all Motorolas. And of course, so is the V60. Even the pager I used to carry was a Motorola - I think I still have it too. Weird...

And what do you know: The Motorola StarTAC is Back, in Yellow (http://gizmodo.com/5672422/the-motorola-startac-is-back-in-yellow)

I mainly use phones just to talk. I hate texting. I don't do the social network thing. I (only) check emails in the office, at home or when I get back to the hotel. And while it would be helpful to have a feature phone, I've managed to do OK without that for so long, I just don't see the cost/benefit. To be honest, if every facility I have to visit for this new company had ready, easy WiFi access, I'd just stick with Ol' Sparky and use the iPod Touch to access other data. An additional $60/month to have something that I won't use that much! That's several race weekends over the course of a year. :mad:

[Jag_Warrior]

You must have kept your phone hidden away in bubble wrap to get it to last so long.

Not at all. It's been dropped numerous times and it's gotten wet many times too, though I've never let it be submersed in water. Other than replacing the antennae and the battery (several times), it's in surprisingly good shape and still works just fine. I've used it every day for the past ten years. I haven't had a landline phone in eight years. So this has been either my primary phone or my secondary phone (when I've worked for companies that gave me a free-use phone).

[janneppi]

Are you sure its waterproofed?

One of my best friends dropped his in the sink soon after telling me that he didn't see the point in waterproofing phones. Sure enough his Xperia V stopped working once he'd fished it out. He's bought a new Xperia Z instead which most definitely is waterproof.
As far as I can thell, both V and Z are IP57, so they should be fine. Although I wouldn't dip either of them in a glass of water. Sealing is done on o-rings that go around the rear plate and it all depends on how well the o-rings sit in place. Besides Sony doesn't mention waterproof, just water resistant.

[Daniel]

Henners' link shows wp8 really well. It's a good is, perhaps not for people who want zillions of apps, but they work just fine and the interface is fantastic :) If people give wp8 a chance, most will like it :)

[henners88]

Yeah I posted it because it showed WP8 from a positive perspective. Trying to give a bit of balance plus it addressed the issue of apps quite well.

[SGWilko]

So, how often did you lose your company phone?! :p

Hah! The things my users would get up to in order to attempt to gat a new phone....

Phones 'run over', left out in the rain, dropped in the bath, sink, toilet!

They don't look so smug when I replace like for like, I can tell you.

We've got one chap, a right PITA, he wants a Z10, and does not realise I'd have to purchase Server 2008 or 2012, then run two versions of BES, just cos he wants a new toy. (And no, I wont use Activesync as then I open a real BYOD nightmare)

[Daniel]

Hah! The things my users would get up to in order to attempt to gat a new phone....

Phones 'run over', left out in the rain, dropped in the bath, sink, toilet!

They don't look so smug when I replace like for like, I can tell you.

We've got one chap, a right PITA, he wants a Z10, and does not realise I'd have to purchase Server 2008 or 2012, then run two versions of BES, just cos he wants a new toy. (And no, I wont use Activesync as then I open a real BYOD nightmare)

Yup. You know what made me laugh once, someone on here once said that people should be able to use personal devices like phones, tablets and their own laptops for work. There are enough issues with viruses in most places without actually getting people to bring their own devices in. Bonkers I tell you....... Hell, they even argued that it made people more productive :rotflmao: If only I remembered who it was, oh how I'd laugh :D

[SGWilko]

Yup. You know what made me laugh once, someone on here once said that people should be able to use personal devices like phones, tablets and their own laptops for work. There are enough issues with viruses in most places without actually getting people to bring their own devices in. Bonkers I tell you....... Hell, they even argued that it made people more productive :rotflmao: If only I remembered who it was, oh how I'd laugh :D

You should buy a fluffy white cat to stroke while laughing once you have a recollection........

[Mark]

Daniel actually does this I've seen it ;)

It is actually a thing. BYOD bring your own device. Some suggest more like buy your own device.

[Daniel]

Daniel actually does this I've seen it ;)

It is actually a thing. BYOD bring your own device. Some suggest more like buy your own device.

I know it's a thing :) I allowed people at the last place I worked at to use their phones on WiFi in certain areas where people were only around at break times, but I would never allow someone's laptop on the domain.

There's a fine line between letting people get on with things and stopping them doing their work. The place I'm temping for at the moment tends to let people get on with things and it's quite good I have to say, but if I'd taken that approach where I was before, people would have taken the p......

[airshifter]

I know it's a thing :) I allowed people at the last place I worked at to use their phones on WiFi in certain areas where people were only around at break times, but I would never allow someone's laptop on the domain.

There's a fine line between letting people get on with things and stopping them doing their work. The place I'm temping for at the moment tends to let people get on with things and it's quite good I have to say, but if I'd taken that approach where I was before, people would have taken the p......


With proper restrictions the BYOD idea works very well. It is used at my daughters school with a great deal of sucess. After the initial restrictions and security concerns are addressed it actually frees up a lot of resources that can be used for other things.

[Daniel]

With proper restrictions the BYOD idea works very well. It is used at my daughters school with a great deal of sucess. After the initial restrictions and security concerns are addressed it actually frees up a lot of resources that can be used for other things.

It all depends what you're hoping to achieve. At the place I'm working for at the moment, they work in a very competitive industry which they dominate at the moment so security is of the utmost importance when there's a lot of commercially sensitive stuff flying around. What do they use? Blackberry's, even though the IT people love their Android and Apple phones. We do use google docs quite a bit, but only for collaborative things with suppliers with no commercially sensitive data.

At the college I was working for, the students were young adults with learning difficulties and keeping them safe was my primary concern, so letting them on the web through regular broadband was a no no unless they were on one of my machines with our (rather Orwellian I have to say) web monitoring software.

In all corporate environments I've worked in, the whole BYOD thing has never really been something which has been allowed. When I worked for a local county, the head of the county wanted a netbook, so we bought him one, it was quite slow, he complained about this, it was entirely his fault.

[SGWilko]

What do they use? Blackberry's.

This is what I like about BB10 - the balance feature. It kind of takes care of the BYOD aspect by seperating the policy driven work side of the device from the personal side.

A nice feature IMO, which if I had the budget I would deploy a BES10 server tomorrow (actually, make that Monday!).

[ioan]

Hah! The things my users would get up to in order to attempt to gat a new phone....

Phones 'run over', left out in the rain, dropped in the bath, sink, toilet!

They don't look so smug when I replace like for like, I can tell you.

We've got one chap, a right PITA, he wants a Z10, and does not realise I'd have to purchase Server 2008 or 2012, then run two versions of BES, just cos he wants a new toy. (And no, I wont use Activesync as then I open a real BYOD nightmare)

You mean you don't use Server 2008 yet? :eek:

[ioan]

Yup. You know what made me laugh once, someone on here once said that people should be able to use personal devices like phones, tablets and their own laptops for work. There are enough issues with viruses in most places without actually getting people to bring their own devices in. Bonkers I tell you....... Hell, they even argued that it made people more productive :rotflmao: If only I remembered who it was, oh how I'd laugh :D

You'll be amazed to learn how many companies do that though.
About 1 year ago I read an article in a business newspaper where some people actually stated that they think they are more productive since the company implemented a BYOD policy. There were also some who thought BYOD is just not right, I guess the later were the ones who have been in the business longer.

[SGWilko]

You mean you don't use Server 2008 yet? :eek:

On our two DL370's we do, yes. These servers run our SAN software/hardware - Datacore/MSA70. We've two 380's running ESX 5, and our production environment is virtual. All the VM's bar 1 are 2003 std or ent. There is a legacy VM running 2000 pro!

We are a property co. For years, the Chairman and CEO were fairly risk averse, so while we did not set the world alight, we ticked over. Then, when they sold out, we had a banker take up the CEO mantle. Straight in the job and this banker undertakes 2 speculative developments at once, in 2007. Makes you understand how this wunch of bankers led us down the financial oblivion road! So, just as the credit crunch sets in, this supposed ex banker who ought to know, puts up two buildings without so much as a pre-let.

Cue a lack of finance, even bigger lack of tenants, and our share price slips to 5p from a high of £4.40.

Amongst all this I have to get board approval for IT budgets - so while the bankers are pi55ing what is left of the pot up the wall entertaining agents who are incapable of finding tenanst even if they bumped into one in the street, I get put on the back burner to simmer gently.

We've had a hostile takeover attempt by a Seth Efrican shareholder, more money up the wall fighting this....

Then, we are finally sold to venture capitalists, who - as it turned out - overpaid for the company, and are reigning everything in.

Hence why we still use 2003 - both Server and Office, and XP on the desktops.

Every payday right now is a bonus, as they could pull the plug anytime if they so wished.....

Still, could be worse I suppose ;)

[henners88]

I know it's a thing :) I allowed people at the last place I worked at to use their phones on WiFi in certain areas where people were only around at break times, but I would never allow someone's laptop on the domain.

There's a fine line between letting people get on with things and stopping them doing their work. The place I'm temping for at the moment tends to let people get on with things and it's quite good I have to say, but if I'd taken that approach where I was before, people would have taken the p......
I'm totally free to use my phone on the companies Wifi whenever I wish. Its not become a problem for us but then again I use my phone a fair bit during the day for work business anyway. The people at the bottom of the ladder don't get the same freedom but thats life. I think with smartphones these days you can get on the internet without the need for wifi so providing it for employee's makes no difference. Not that they do this that I am aware but if you restrict wifi access, it just means employee's will use 3G and if there ever was a need to monitor what they are doing, you couldn't do it. Its in the companies interest IMO.

[SGWilko]

I'm totally free to use my phone on the companies Wifi whenever I wish. Its not become a problem for us but then again I use my phone a fair bit during the day for work business anyway. The people at the bottom of the ladder don't get the same freedom but thats life. I think with smartphones these days you can get on the internet without the need for wifi so providing it for employee's makes no difference. Not that they do this that I am aware but if you restrict wifi access, it just means employee's will use 3G and if there ever was a need to monitor what they are doing, you couldn't do it. Its in the companies interest IMO.

I've supplied a seperate subnet unabated through the proxy via the firewall for guests to use, but I control its use with the encryption key. It is obviously seperate from the work domain so corporate email is still not provided on non corporate devices.

It is generally used for presentations, auditors etc.

[ioan]

On our two DL370's we do, yes. These servers run our SAN software/hardware - Datacore/MSA70. We've two 380's running ESX 5, and our production environment is virtual. All the VM's bar 1 are 2003 std or ent. There is a legacy VM running 2000 pro!

We are a property co. For years, the Chairman and CEO were fairly risk averse, so while we did not set the world alight, we ticked over. Then, when they sold out, we had a banker take up the CEO mantle. Straight in the job and this banker undertakes 2 speculative developments at once, in 2007. Makes you understand how this wunch of bankers led us down the financial oblivion road! So, just as the credit crunch sets in, this supposed ex banker who ought to know, puts up two buildings without so much as a pre-let.

Cue a lack of finance, even bigger lack of tenants, and our share price slips to 5p from a high of £4.40.

Amongst all this I have to get board approval for IT budgets - so while the bankers are pi55ing what is left of the pot up the wall entertaining agents who are incapable of finding tenanst even if they bumped into one in the street, I get put on the back burner to simmer gently.

We've had a hostile takeover attempt by a Seth Efrican shareholder, more money up the wall fighting this....

Then, we are finally sold to venture capitalists, who - as it turned out - overpaid for the company, and are reigning everything in.

Hence why we still use 2003 - both Server and Office, and XP on the desktops.

Every payday right now is a bonus, as they could pull the plug anytime if they so wished.....

Still, could be worse I suppose ;)

I agree that looks rather grim.
Good thing you are already using virtual environments , ESXi 5, so that allows you to cheaply deploy new servers (price of OS is still bellow price of hardware).
Obviously I agree that in your case deploying a new server just to support the newest BB devices and OS is not one of your priorities.

[SGWilko]

I agree that looks rather grim.
Good thing you are already using virtual environments , ESXi 5, so that allows you to cheaply deploy new servers (price of OS is still bellow price of hardware).
Obviously I agree that in your case deploying a new server just to support the newest BB devices and OS is not one of your priorities.

Not ESXi - the full paid for version used with VCentre - I blew my last decent achievable budget on virtualising the estate and replacing our ageing MAS1000 SAN - upgrading the OS at the time (2009) put the budget beyond acceptable!

[Mark]

Free version of XenServer for us. We don't tend to buy thinks like VMWare!

[ioan]

Free version of XenServer for us. We don't tend to buy thinks like VMWare!

Especially if you can live with MS HyperV.

[Mark]

Especially if you can live with MS HyperV.

That would mean buying Windows licences!

[henners88]

My word this has all get very technical... I'm out of my depth :p

[henners88]

I thought this was amusing, although I wouldn't want to pay the bill!


Residents and visitors to a Kent village are racking up extra charges when their mobile phones connect to French networks.

The bay is blocked by the white cliffs from receiving UK signals and people in the village sometimes get connected to the French network depending on atmospheric conditions and the weather.


BBC News - Kent village paying French mobile call charges (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-21739029)

[SGWilko]

I thought this was amusing, although I wouldn't want to pay the bill!



BBC News - Kent village paying French mobile call charges (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-21739029)

Nice little beach 'hut' cafe down there, and I always get 'that text' as does 'er indoors!

[ioan]

That would mean buying Windows licences!

True, and on top of that Windows 2008 Server licenses, which SGWilko tries to avoid right now. But still cheaper then VMware, but also less powerful.

[ioan]

I thought this was amusing, although I wouldn't want to pay the bill!



BBC News - Kent village paying French mobile call charges (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-21739029)

Bloody French, they should stop extending so far outside their Hexagon.

Seriously, how is that possible? In mainland Europe if I leave the country of my provider I get maximum 5 kms of coverage, sometimes even less.

[Mark]

Because the signals travel across the sea quite easily as they have line of sight to the coast.

[ioan]

Because the signals travel across the sea quite easily as they have line of sight to the coast.

So everyone should set their phones to manually chose the provider when they travel to this place and then enjoy a day without being bothered by anyone! Good idea!

Seriously though, they might want to install a transmitter in the town to make sure they avoid such issues.

[Big Ben]

In the awesome town of Oradea, when my carrier takes a break an Hungarian carrier would welcome me instantly... But the border is 10 km from here.... It's odd that the French network could reach that far.

[ioan]

In the awesome town of Oradea, when my carrier takes a break an Hungarian carrier would welcome me instantly... But the border is 10 km from here.... It's odd that the French network could reach that far.

The French are the best, there's no questioning of that! ;)

[Dave B]

I thought this was amusing, although I wouldn't want to pay the bill!

BBC News - Kent village paying French mobile call charges (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-21739029)
Older readers may remember that One-2-One used to give free calls within your own dialling code, or in neigbouring codes. Why they based it on landlines I'll never know, but anyway. I spent an evening in Sheerness making loads of calls, which should have been free it falls into the area next to mine. I didn't bank on the transmitters on top of flats on Southend seafront, just 8 miles away as the crow flies - and that was when you'd pay 30 or 50p per minute for non-inclusive calls!

[henners88]

In the awesome town of Oradea, when my carrier takes a break an Hungarian carrier would welcome me instantly... But the border is 10 km from here.... It's odd that the French network could reach that far.
It's a bit more than 10km to France but not a huge deal more.

[SGWilko]

True, and on top of that Windows 2008 Server licenses, which SGWilko tries to avoid right now. But still cheaper then VMware, but also less powerful.

I'm gonna skip 2008 and move right on to 2012 if I get my budget. :)

[ioan]

I'm gonna skip 2008 and move right on to 2012 if I get my budget. :)

That seems like a good plan. Also your chances to get budget for an up to date OS are better then for the previous version.

[SGWilko]

Older readers may remember that One-2-One used to give free calls within your own dialling code, or in neigbouring codes. Why they based it on landlines I'll never know, but anyway. I spent an evening in Sheerness making loads of calls, which should have been free it falls into the area next to mine. I didn't bank on the transmitters on top of flats on Southend seafront, just 8 miles away as the crow flies - and that was when you'd pay 30 or 50p per minute for non-inclusive calls!

Oohhhh, One 2 Weekend tarriff! In the days when mobiles were still rather bulky, and you could only send texts cross networks by manually inputting a belgium message centre number!

Ah, them were the days. Credit card size SIM cards too, and an extending aerial.

[Dave B]

Motorola M301 for me! The battery alone was the size of 3 iPhones. I was so glad when I switched to Orange and upgraded to a Nokia 5.1, which felt futuristic in comparison.

[henners88]

Well the S4 is now here and I have to say its very impressive. Looks a nice device and Samsung have certainly taken note of the demand for better quality hardware in terms of material choice and or appearance. I might end up back on Android at the end of next year when my contract is up as I would never rule it out. I would like to see more effort going into app development as iOS is still the leader in quality app's IMO, and I feel Android is let down somewhat in this department. Having said that I think Apple are due a major overhaul of its software and I'll be interested to see what this brings.

Samsung Galaxy S4 release date, news and features | News | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/samsung-galaxy-s4-release-date-news-and-features-1089523)

My only gripe about the S4 is its size. I felt the S3 was too large for my tastes and still do when I play with my friends phones. Sort of hoping the quality continues as we see here, but the demand for massive screens cools off a bit. Its going to be a tough choice for my next upgrade, but that's way off yet thank goodness. :)

[Dave B]

Everybody seems obsessed with this eye-scrolling trickery (which if it's anything like the temperamental "smart stay" on my S3 will be switched off sharpish by most users), when actually there are some far more geeky improvements which will have more real-world use. The screen for starters is genuine full HD, 1920x1080, the same pixel count as a full HD TV. That means no scaling of video content so it should play back even smoother. But I think the real killer could be Samsung Knox, the equivalent of the Blackberry's enterprise software which keeps your personal and work stuff totally separate. IT managers are - rightly or wrongly - somewhat paranoid about allowing Android devices on their networks, this should completely eliminate that fear. From the outside this doesn't look like a massive leap from the S3, but internally it looks very​ interesting.

[Daniel]

Well, i have what is essentially a wp8 gs3 and the screen size is fine, in fact I'd hapily have a bigger phone, you soon get used to it.

[Dave B]

I would like to see more effort going into app development as iOS is still the leader in quality app's IMO, and I feel Android is let down somewhat in this department.
That used to be the case, in fact it was embarrassing how many major companies trumpeted their iOS apps while leaving Android out in the cold, but is that really the case now? Apart from the woeful iPlayer, can you think of any useful iOS app that doesn't have an Android equal?

[henners88]

That used to be the case, in fact it was embarrassing how many major companies trumpeted their iOS apps while leaving Android out in the cold, but is that really the case now? Apart from the woeful iPlayer, can you think of any useful iOS app that doesn't have an Android equal?
I can only go on my experience from changing to iOS from Android Dave. I'll list the apps I use where I have noticed a difference, be it in appearance, extra features, or stability. Endomondo, and Tapatalk both seem less laggy on iOS and I've noticed the interface on Tapatalk contains a different layout. The Halifax banking app used to let you put your password in and security pin only to close itself down and ask you to submit an error report. Its not done this as yet since my switch. The Facebook app on Android went through so many changes and shortly before I switched they had it nailed. It wasn't as fluid as I'm getting now but was fine. Towards the end it was updated and was virtually unusable to which it often closed itself down and again the dreaded feedback/error report box would come onto the screen. The play store used to take up to a minute to load on my HTC. I know it was loading a fair amount of data concerning marketing and app's but still. With good connectivity and a phone that was clear of clutter and widgets running in the background, I just didn't think it was as polished as it should have been.

I know these types of issues vary between Android phones and the higher end phone you buy, the better performance you will often get. I don't accept that excuse because the purpose of designing an operating system to deliver it to the range, not allow it to under perform on phones that are still relatively new but quickly replaced by a better model. I'm sure the experience is very different on the S3 however, but will the performance suffer like mine did in 12 months time? I think they need to address the fundamental issues users have, rather than focussing too much on the next release. Its all great releasing the new must have phone, but when you are stuck in a 2 year contract and suddenly your phone is incapable of running the OS, I think its unacceptable.

This sounds like a rant but I really do think I'll be back on Android in the future. I just hope it sorts itself out sooner rather than later. :)

[Mark]

Bugs on Android are always going to be more common just due to the fact that Android and apps have to run on a variety of hardware. Same as Windows on PC is regarded as being less reliable than OSX, just because of the variety of setups Windows has to run on.

S4 looks very impressive, I think if I was after a new phone at the moment I'd be looking at that. Trouble is now you think - well I'll wait and see what the next iPhone is like - then, well I'll wait and see what the next Samsung is like ;)

[henners88]

S4 looks very impressive, I think if I was after a new phone at the moment I'd be looking at that. Trouble is now you think - well I'll wait and see what the next iPhone is like - then, well I'll wait and see what the next Samsung is like ;)
That's the vicious circle we are in now. A couple of years ago I held off on an upgrade because there was nothing that took my fancy. Now there is plenty of choice, almost too much! I think if I was considering the S4 right now, I's wait and see what the S4 mini is like. I don't have deep suit pockets on a daily basis and really do think phones are focusing on maximum screen size rather than realistic usability. I know the rumour mill is suggesting the next iPhone will be significantly larger, but I do hope they produce a 4 inch screened model alongside it like we have right now.

[CaptainRaiden]

Well, back after an intense and exhausting two month travel halfway across the world, I have to say I am not that impressed by the S4. Of course I ruled out flexible displays long ago, but I was expecting it to be much, much better in all departments. For now I'll stick to my S3 and be on the lookout for something more impressive.

In fact if I was gagged, put under hot water and forced to make a choice now, I'd go for the Xperia Z most probably.

[henners88]

Well, back after an intense and exhausting two month travel halfway across the world, I have to say I am not that impressed by the S4. Of course I ruled out flexible displays long ago, but I was expecting it to be much, much better in all departments. For now I'll stick to my S3 and be on the lookout for something more impressive.

In fact if I was gagged, put under hot water and forced to make a choice now, I'd go for the Xperia Z most probably.
To be honest from what I have read from initial feedback is that they predict most of the software features on the S4 will soon appear on the S3 and lets face it the S3 is still a stunning device with plenty of power. Whether or not S3 users will jump up to the S4 for a slightly bigger screen and a bit of chrome down the sides I do not know. I do think if anyone was considering the S3 as an upgrade, they may as well consider the S4 now, be silly not to.

[CaptainRaiden]

To be honest from what I have read from initial feedback is that they predict most of the software features on the S4 will soon appear on the S3 and lets face it the S3 is still a stunning device with plenty of power.

Yep, for my needs it's more than enough for now.


Whether or not S3 users will jump up to the S4 for a slightly bigger screen and a bit of chrome down the sides I do not know. I do think if anyone was considering the S3 as an upgrade, they may as well consider the S4 now, be silly not to.

Exactly. The S4 will be available for pretty much the same contract as the S3 and an iPhone 5 in the US and UK very soon now.

[Daniel]

No point in getting an out of date flagship anyway. I reckon you'd get used to a bigger iPhone or a galaxy s4 in no time henners.

[henners88]

No point in getting an out of date flagship anyway. I reckon you'd get used to a bigger iPhone or a galaxy s4 in no time henners.

Possibly, I may have no choice if that's the way things are going. I'll just have to make sure my wife is with me on nights out so she can carry it in her handbag lol. A mate of mine has the Galaxy Note 2 and although he loves it for general use when at work and at home, he admits its far too big in some situations. He didn't have it with him last weekend for instance when myself and a few if the lads went out. I think he got fed up by how many times people said 'where's your laptop?' You try getting the Note in a pair of skinny jeans and walk normally! :p

[henners88]

Yep, for my needs it's more than enough for now..
Don't get me wrong it's got some pretty decent hardware upgrades, but if I had an S3 and knew most of the features would come in the next update, I wouldn't be rushing out to get it. It doesn't look much different to the S3 either. That wouldn't bother me so much because iPhones run along the same style principle which makes them date less quickly. A tactic possibly Samsung are also using when building the Galaxy brand. It'll still sell well but whether or not it'll do as we'll as the S3 will remain to be seen. I'm not a Samsung user so couldn't give a reliable opinion on whether its a big enough jump or not.

[Valve Bounce]

Am I wrong or is it true that nearly everyone wants to upgrade their smart phone to have a better toy? ;)

[henners88]

You're not wrong Valve I think most people these days will upgrade as soon as their contract is up mainly for a new toy. I include myself on that :)

[race aficionado]

I don't care for many of these new features that are coming out on these new "smart" phones.

What is missing in your current smart phone that you would wish for?

Give me more battery life,better video and pix quality ( and I'm a happy customer on this end and I'm sure it will get better), a universal video codec and finally better (lower) prices for phones and a more reliable and dependable service.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21791023

[Daniel]

You're not wrong Valve I think most people these days will upgrade as soon as their contract is up mainly for a new toy. I include myself on that :)

Well, there's no point in buying last years flagship model IMHO. For me there were only two phones I would have considered, I really did want a 920, but the Ativ S has a few bits of wow factor too. The screen really is rather fantastic and the battery is great, leave the wifi, bluetooth, 3g and GPS active on my Lumia 800 and you'd find that by the evening it needed a charge which wasn't ideal if you were chatting on facebook. With my Ativ S, I can do all that and use the phone loads during the day and still have at least 40% battery by the time I jump into bed. If I only use it lightly and switch everything off that drains the battery, I could have another 30% battery left. If there was a Windows Version of the galaxy S4 available then I would have bought that, but most of the new features aren't applicable to Windows Phone.....

[Daniel]

Possibly, I may have no choice if that's the way things are going. I'll just have to make sure my wife is with me on nights out so she can carry it in her handbag lol. A mate of mine has the Galaxy Note 2 and although he loves it for general use when at work and at home, he admits its far too big in some situations. He didn't have it with him last weekend for instance when myself and a few if the lads went out. I think he got fed up by how many times people said 'where's your laptop?' You try getting the Note in a pair of skinny jeans and walk normally! :p

You know I made fun of the Note quite a bit, but a coworker has one and after going from a 3.7" Lumia 800 screen to a 4.8" Ativ S one, I have to say that size is everything and for my next upgrade I'd consider something Noteish in size. Luckily I have no friends so would never really have to suffer the embarassment of making a call on it :p

[airshifter]

I don't use half the crap on my current phone. I wish I would have picked the slightly thicker phone with more battery life, but actually for my use it's more than enough.

[Daniel]

I don't use half the crap on my current phone. I wish I would have picked the slightly thicker phone with more battery life, but actually for my use it's more than enough.

Another advantage of big screen phones is a bigger battery, as long as you're not on it all day it'll last longer :)

[henners88]

You know I made fun of the Note quite a bit, but a coworker has one and after going from a 3.7" Lumia 800 screen to a 4.8" Ativ S one, I have to say that size is everything and for my next upgrade I'd consider something Noteish in size. Luckily I have no friends so would never really have to suffer the embarassment of making a call on it :p
Well something like this is always going to be a subjective opinion in all honesty. I have no problem with others choosing to have phones that big, but for me they are totally impractical. I don't think it was any secret before I upgraded that I didn't want a phone too much bigger than the previous iPhone and indeed it played a significant part in my final choice. I still carry my mobile around in my trouser pocket so I judge on this basis. I suppose different people do different things on their phones and personally I don't do anything that demands something quite so massive. I make calls, text, instant message, facebook, twitter, glance at the odd youtube video, listen to music, email etc so you can see a 5 inch screen is a little overkill for my needs. If it gets to the point where they are all forced to go bigger because the market demands bigger, then my preferences in future will boil down to finding the best smaller phones rather than the best phone I can possibly have :)

[airshifter]

Another advantage of big screen phones is a bigger battery, as long as you're not on it all day it'll last longer :)

I have a very thin phone, so in my case it's easier to get a bigger battery without much size difference. As for going bigger, a bigger screen is always nice but I don't want something too bulky either. I guess if I get looking at some point I might cut something to the size of the newer phones and see if I think it would be portable enough for me.

[Mark]

Am I wrong or is it true that nearly everyone wants to upgrade their smart phone to have a better toy? ;)

There is a lot of that, yes. But there's nothing wrong in having a toy, as long as you know that's what it is ;)

[CaptainRaiden]

You know I made fun of the Note quite a bit, but a coworker has one and after going from a 3.7" Lumia 800 screen to a 4.8" Ativ S one, I have to say that size is everything and for my next upgrade I'd consider something Noteish in size. Luckily I have no friends so would never really have to suffer the embarassment of making a call on it :p

You know, I have to agree with that. I also thought something like the Galaxy Note 2 is too big for me when I saw it in ads, but when I used my friend's for a while, that thing is freaking gorgeous, and I love the S pen. It fits fine in my jeans and pants pocket too, and I'm not a large individual wearing baggy clown pants. I have seen a ton of people making and receiving calls on it in three countries over the past two months now without any problems. For people too ashamed to be seen picking up a call on a phone that large, they can use a bluetooth headset. It's very handy whether you're driving or otherwise, even at the risk of looking like a douchebag. :D

I'm using one with the S3 right now. It's practical, I can charge it along with my phone using a charger with two USB ports and two micro-usb cables simultaneously. The only gripe being that the headset is so small that I've had awkward moments in shops and malls where strangers thought I was talking to them while I was on a call. :p

[henners88]

It's very rare you see people in Britain talking on Bluetooth headsets these days when a few years ago it was very common. Most newer cars seem to have built in Bluetooth too or at least an optional extra. I saw a taxi driver using one the other day and it was something I took note of because of it being uncommon. Think I've still got one somewhere from a Motorola Pebl I had years ago. Now that was a tiny phone.

[Mark]

When I got my car in 2008 it was still unusual to have built in bluetooth calling, my Fiesta was one of the first small cars to have it. As you say it's now much more common.

[henners88]

When I got my car in 2008 it was still unusual to have built in bluetooth calling, my Fiesta was one of the first small cars to have it. As you say it's now much more common.

Yeah mines a 2009 Toyota so think its more popular in recent years. My mate has a 2009 Fiesta Eco, but an optional extra.

[Daniel]

Our 500 has it too. Wouldn't be without it :)

[henners88]

It fits fine in my jeans and pants pocket too, and I'm not a large individual wearing baggy clown pants.
As I said its just preference. I can squeeze a Note into my jeans pocket but its not comfortable and there's a big rectangular shape showing through my jeans on my thigh when I do. If you don't mind that, then your options are increased obviously with phones getting bigger.

[CaptainRaiden]

I've never used a bluetooth headset before in my life until now. I guess I've gotten too paranoid after breaking my S3's screen once. The way I see it is it won't break again as long as it remains in my pocket. :D

[CaptainRaiden]

As I said its just preference. I can squeeze a Note into my jeans pocket but its not comfortable and there's a big rectangular shape showing through my jeans on my thigh when I do. If you don't mind that, then your options are increased obviously with phones getting bigger.

I think it's more down to what you want to do with the phone. For call taking, surfing or checking Facebook, even the (now dinky) iphone 4S screen is big enough. The reason bigger "Phablets" or flagships with 5 inch 1080p screens are getting more popular is because of handheld gaming IMO. This was more obvious to me when playing certain games on a Nexus 7 and then playing the same games on my S3. Certain games are just better on a tablet's bigger screen, so I guess these new bigger phones are providing a sort of midway alternative for people who don't want a huge tablet, but still want to enjoy certain HD games. Of course a larger screen also helps to watch videos and look at photos. I mean it's unbelievable that there are certain upcoming mobile games (one or two are out on the market already), which even the Galaxy S3 and iPhone 5 can't handle! :eek:

[race aficionado]

I'm a simple gamer. "unblock me" is what I sometimes play when in the subway.

[henners88]

I think it's more down to what you want to do with the phone. For call taking, surfing or checking Facebook, even the (now dinky) iphone 4S screen is big enough. The reason bigger "Phablets" or flagships with 5 inch 1080p screens are getting more popular is because of handheld gaming IMO. This was more obvious to me when playing certain games on a Nexus 7 and then playing the same games on my S3. Certain games are just better on a tablet's bigger screen, so I guess these new bigger phones are providing a sort of midway alternative for people who don't want a huge tablet, but still want to enjoy certain HD games. Of course a larger screen also helps to watch videos and look at photos. I mean it's unbelievable that there are certain upcoming mobile games (one or two are out on the market already), which even the Galaxy S3 and iPhone 5 can't handle! :eek:
That makes a lot of sense and its not something I considered previously. I can honestly say I don't have a single game on my phone as its not really my thing. My other half plays a couple of things on her iPad but the screen is ideal if you want that sort if thing.

[Daniel]

I think it's more down to what you want to do with the phone. For call taking, surfing or checking Facebook, even the (now dinky) iphone 4S screen is big enough. The reason bigger "Phablets" or flagships with 5 inch 1080p screens are getting more popular is because of handheld gaming IMO. This was more obvious to me when playing certain games on a Nexus 7 and then playing the same games on my S3. Certain games are just better on a tablet's bigger screen, so I guess these new bigger phones are providing a sort of midway alternative for people who don't want a huge tablet, but still want to enjoy certain HD games. Of course a larger screen also helps to watch videos and look at photos. I mean it's unbelievable that there are certain upcoming mobile games (one or two are out on the market already), which even the Galaxy S3 and iPhone 5 can't handle! :eek:


Personally I just like a big screen, I take what Henners says about pocket sizes, but my phone is so slim that it makes up for it and feels less bulky than my Lumia 800 did. The web is just better with a higher res/bigger screen to view it on :)

[Daniel]

It's very rare you see people in Britain talking on Bluetooth headsets these days when a few years ago it was very common. Most newer cars seem to have built in Bluetooth too or at least an optional extra. I saw a taxi driver using one the other day and it was something I took note of because of it being uncommon. Think I've still got one somewhere from a Motorola Pebl I had years ago. Now that was a tiny phone.

The whole size thing with phones is funny, does anyone remember when there was a tendency towards making the tiniest phones possible? You had those silly phones which could almost fit in the palm of your hand. Then phones got bigger because they needed bigger batteries because of cameras and colour screens, now they're getting even bigger. Slider phones have all but died out and clamshell phones never really caught on either.

[ioan]

The whole size thing with phones is funny, does anyone remember when there was a tendency towards making the tiniest phones possible? You had those silly phones which could almost fit in the palm of your hand. Then phones got bigger because they needed bigger batteries because of cameras and colour screens, now they're getting even bigger. Slider phones have all but died out and clamshell phones never really caught on either.

I had the Nokia 8210 back in 2001, I still have it though I didn't use it since about 6 years, it's a really good phone but not more than that.
Two years ago I've got myself the first Galaxy Tab and used it as a phone, with earphones and bluetooth.
I am set to get a Note 2 in about 2 months when I'll have to renew my contract, unless there is a Note 3 coming soon which I would wait for.

[henners88]

The whole size thing with phones is funny, does anyone remember when there was a tendency towards making the tiniest phones possible? You had those silly phones which could almost fit in the palm of your hand. Then phones got bigger because they needed bigger batteries because of cameras and colour screens, now they're getting even bigger. Slider phones have all but died out and clamshell phones never really caught on either.
Yeah I said a few pages back that it wasn't too long ago it was the race to build the smallest phone possible. We were not surfing the internet so much on them back then though and the use for a mobile phone has changed significantly in recent years. I had the Motorola Pebl which was the smallest phone I ever had but it was only used for texting and phoning so perfect for the use. Before that I had the Motorola Razor which ended up being one of the best selling phones of all time due to its flip design and slim build. When you consider how limited they were in terms of what we used them for, its no wonder battery life was days rather than hours. I think that's why we are so fussy these days demanding better battery life because we were once used to having it so good but haven't considered the changes that came with it.

I don't mind so much having a larger phone than I once had but draw the line at having a handset that's 160mm long and 100mm wide! Give me a 4 inch screen (maybe slightly bigger I'd go) that is all I need. You won't hear it said too often but small is impressive in this case IMHO lol :)

[Mark]

You can still get tiny phones of course, they tend to be the really cheap and simple ones.

[henners88]

You can still get tiny phones of course, they tend to be the really cheap and simple ones.
Of course.

[pino]

My new upgrades will be iPhone 5s and Mini iPad 2 with retina display :D

[Mark]

Assuming those two things will actually exist. But it's a safe bet they will; sounds like a good plan. The iPad Mini is really nice and will be even better with retina display.

[pino]

They will exist, maybe with different name but who cares, I am not buying names or brands just a product which satisfies me ;)

[race aficionado]

Design wise, my favorite ones were the 'Beam me up Scotty' models.

[henners88]

With rumours circulating Samsung are working on their own operating system, how long before others follow suit forcing Google on the back foot?

The link below sounds a bit drastic lol

The End Of Android (http://www.splatf.com/2013/03/android-rubin/)

[Mark]

Well certainly Samsung now sees itself as a serious rival for Apple and so it makes sense that it would look to follow Apple into having proprietry OS. However that's a dangerous route as they would lose the app base they have at the moment, which is all important.

I think it's clear in the mobile market there is only room for 2 major ecosystems, with a handful of others squabbling over what's left.

[henners88]

I think it would be a mistake for Samsung to try and rival iOS and Android and they may have become complacent with their market share amongst manufacturers. I have seen it speculated that Samsung has used it's impressive market share to influence Google a little too much, and this has caused tension amongst the likes of HTC, Sony etc. Maybe Google has allowed too much power to go to its customers rather than keeping a tighter grip on its OS? Its clear Google are not earning as much money from its mobile sector as it should be and they could quite easily turn a cold shoulder on Samsung in the long term. The test would be if customers are Samsung loyalists or Android. There seems to be a pattern amongst most of the bigger manufacturers (including Apple) where they get to a certain point and become a little too greedy and try and go it alone.

[odykas]

My new upgrades will be iPhone 5s and Mini iPad 2 with retina display :D

Crisis :crazy:

[janneppi]

I've been doing some experiments with two NFC tags that came with the phone. Now i have one for home which toggles wifi/3G and other one for car which toggles on/off navigation, 3G, GPS.

Still a bit of work in progress and need testing. Might end up being handy if I get it to work as I'd like it.

[pino]

Crisis :crazy:

I only live once and I am getting older so I better start spending all my money :p : ;)

[Valve Bounce]

I only live once and I am getting older so I better start spending all my money :p : ;)

Have you tried Nisiko? The lifts are crappy, but the powder is out of this world. I met guys there who came all the way from the USA and they have great powder in Colorado. Maybe you should try Colorado first. or Canada.

[Valve Bounce]

Just a thought about the i5. Our Channel 9 guru, Charlie Brown, warned that earlier i5's had a glitch, and caught many people travelling overseas with huge, huge bills caused by some continuous insistent roaming searching for data, even when owners switched some searching thingy off. people ended up with bills of thousands of dollars. The way I see it, if I am going overseas, I would remove my sim card, and then just buy some pre-paid plan where I am travelling.

My current plan has no internet, so I just log onto my home A/C. When out, I just use my phone as a phone to locate my wife when shopping.

[Valve Bounce]

You can still get tiny phones of course, they tend to be the really cheap and simple ones.

Yeah! the Sacred Heart Op Shop in South Melbourne is selling them for $2 each.

[Big Ben]

I would have to tick something in settings to turn on data roaming (it even has a warning it may cause significant data charges... so I can't say i didn't know).

on top of that I think I would have to activate some special option with my carrier... but I would still start sweating inside and outside of my skin if I'd turned it on by mistake since this phone seems to be doing plenty of things on the internet behind my back.

the funny thing is that I have to pay for roaming for using the orange network in another country even if I have a contract with them in my own... common market my @$$

[janneppi]

First Post on the damn Android phone, it's still not as good as ny old nokia, but i think it's a work in progress. The virtual keyboard feels stupid and navigation is not,possible offline.

[schmenke]

Just a thought about the i5. Our Channel 9 guru, Charlie Brown, warned that earlier i5's had a glitch, and caught many people travelling overseas with huge, huge bills caused by some continuous insistent roaming searching for data, even when owners switched some searching thingy off. people ended up with bills of thousands of dollars. ....

That’s good to know. When on holiday in Mexico recently I disabled the data-roaming option on my i5. My next monthly statement will confirm that it actually work :mark: .

[henners88]

I've been abroad three times since the end of last year also taking my i5 with me. If you disable roaming like on any other phone, you'll be fine. I've had no problems whatsoever. :)

[DonJippo]

There were times when this thread was like this wedding.... :p

Switch to the Nokia Lumia 920 Windows Phone -- Engadget's Readers Choice Smartphone of the Year - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Z19vR1GldRI)

[ioan]

There were times when this thread was like this wedding.... :p

Switch to the Nokia Lumia 920 Windows Phone -- Engadget's Readers Choice Smartphone of the Year - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Z19vR1GldRI)

Good one!

[Valve Bounce]

I finally bit the bullet and switched providers. Our old Optus $10 plans did not allow any interstate calls, calls to other mobiles nor texting without additional charges. On top of that it did not have any allowance for internet and worst still, had no reception at Docklands where I am staying at the moment.

Now you guys are going to laugh at this. When I applied to activate the sim, my application was flagged. I had to provide proof of identity, which meant I had to scan my drivers licence, Medicare card and old Optus bill and send this to Aldi. My Printer/scanner is in storage. :( Anyway, I finally got a friend to scan these documents and sent it off. BUT when I installed the Aldi sim card, I got no reception. I phoned Aldi's provider (45minutes on hold) then Optus (15 minutes on hold) to no avail. Went to an Optus shop and 3 sales persons checked my sim card in the phone which they said was OK.

I went home, and decided to check the sim again, saw a small diagram inside my phone showing how the sim is supposed to be inserted and realised that I had the sim inserted back to front. :p : DUH!!!!!!!!!!

Now I find that not only does my phone work inside the apartment building, but I am on Telstra's 3G network, and can even get two bars on my phone inside the lift. Oh! Happy days!! :)

I paid $40 which included the sim card and the recharge is $35 per month. Quite reasonable. Now I have to work out how to download the AFL's footy app so I can watch games live on my mobile. :)

[SGWilko]

I finally bit the bullet and switched providers. Our old Optus $10 plans did not allow any interstate calls, calls to other mobiles nor texting without additional charges. On top of that it did not have any allowance for internet and worst still, had no reception at Docklands where I am staying at the moment.

Now you guys are going to laugh at this. When I applied to activate the sim, my application was flagged. I had to provide proof of identity, which meant I had to scan my drivers licence, Medicare card and old Optus bill and send this to Aldi. My Printer/scanner is in storage. :( Anyway, I finally got a friend to scan these documents and sent it off. BUT when I installed the Aldi sim card, I got no reception. I phoned Aldi's provider (45minutes on hold) then Optus (15 minutes on hold) to no avail. Went to an Optus shop and 3 sales persons checked my sim card in the phone which they said was OK.

I went home, and decided to check the sim again, saw a small diagram inside my phone showing how the sim is supposed to be inserted and realised that I had the sim inserted back to front. :p : DUH!!!!!!!!!!

Now I find that not only does my phone work inside the apartment building, but I am on Telstra's 3G network, and can even get two bars on my phone inside the lift. Oh! Happy days!! :)

I paid $40 which included the sim card and the recharge is $35 per month. Quite reasonable. Now I have to work out how to download the AFL's footy app so I can watch games live on my mobile. :)

Rock 'n Roll Valve - no stopping you now! ;)

[Mark]

Recommend me a good phone to get for my 70 year old Mum - she doesn't do well with technology, but she does know she wants a camera on her phone, mostly because her sister has a camera on her phone, I don't expect she'll ever use it! Budget < £100.

[SGWilko]

Recommend me a good phone to get for my 70 year old Mum - she doesn't do well with technology, but she does know she wants a camera on her phone, mostly because her sister has a camera on her phone, I don't expect she'll ever use it! Budget < £100.

Samsung SolidExtreme Rugged Mobile Phone SIM Free : Mobile Phones : Maplin Electronics (http://www.maplin.co.uk/samsung-solidextreme-rugged-mobile-phone-sim-free-454782)

?

[henners88]

Recommend me a good phone to get for my 70 year old Mum - she doesn't do well with technology, but she does know she wants a camera on her phone, mostly because her sister has a camera on her phone, I don't expect she'll ever use it! Budget < £100.

Check these out Mark:

Welcome to an easier everyday life | Doro - Easy to use mobile phones and telecom products for seniors (http://www.doro.co.uk/)

Bought one for my Mum who is 64 and never owned a mobile phone until last month. They are really easy to use, no frills and she loves it. Hope that helps :)

[Mark]

Samsung SolidExtreme Rugged Mobile Phone SIM Free : Mobile Phones : Maplin Electronics (http://www.maplin.co.uk/samsung-solidextreme-rugged-mobile-phone-sim-free-454782)

?

Don't think she needs rugged, she's very careful with her stuff, she's had her last phone for about 6 years, not a scratch on it.



Check these out Mark:

Welcome to an easier everyday life | Doro - Easy to use mobile phones and telecom products for seniors (http://www.doro.co.uk/)

Bought one for my Mum who is 64 and never owned a mobile phone until last month. They are really easy to use, no frills and she loves it. Hope that helps :)

Interesting! Might be something worth looking at there.

[CaptainRaiden]

Recommend me a good phone to get for my 70 year old Mum - she doesn't do well with technology, but she does know she wants a camera on her phone, mostly because her sister has a camera on her phone, I don't expect she'll ever use it! Budget < £100.

http://gadgetsin.com/uploads/2009/11/6380_senior_mobile_phone_11.JPG

TTfone Mercury TT002 - Orange Pay as you go - Big Button Easy to use Senior Mobile Phone - with FM radio and Torch function - SOS button and large easy to read display - QUAD BAND - Black - Pre Pay PAYG: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics (http://www.amazon.co.uk/TTfone-Mercury-TT002-function-display/dp/B0085MC2UG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1368211727&sr=8-2&keywords=mobile+phone+senior)

Was looking at one of these for my wife's grandma a while back too. Seemed fuss free for seniors and easy to use, and dirt cheap. What henners suggested looks like a good buy as well.

[Mark]

Nah. tbh she could use an iPhone if she put the effort into learning how to use it. But she wouldn't. ;)

[DonJippo]

Jolla has launched their first Sailfish OS smartphone

Jolla Launches First Sailfish OS Smartphone - Hands-On Demo - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxv7iXwIgno&feature=youtu.be)

[Spafranco]

I have changed from Comcast to At&T and they have offered me a ipad, tablet or notebook. Thing is you have to attend a 90 minute lecture.

Is it worth it?They say this device is $200

[Jag_Warrior]

I have changed from Comcast to At&T and they have offered me a ipad, tablet or notebook. Thing is you have to attend a 90 minute lecture.

Is it worth it?They say this device is $200

Do they require you to then upgrade your plan to accommodate the device they're "giving" you? I mean, is it a 3G/4G device that has to be on a plan? If not, then yeah, that sounds like a good deal.

[Dave B]

I have changed from Comcast to At&T and they have offered me a ipad, tablet or notebook. Thing is you have to attend a 90 minute lecture.

Is it worth it?They say this device is $200
That sounds like the old timeshare selling technique: a "free" meal where you're plied with cheap booze and given a hard sell until you give in and sign just to get some peace and quiet!

[Mark]

That was a scam a little while back, you'd get a 'free' holiday, which the only proviso that you had to attend a timeshare seminar, where you were basically brow beaten into signing a timeshare deal.

http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/timeshare7.htm

[MarkBarrett]

no doubt what best version comes to market there are no other versions better than samsung galaxy s3 in market

[Mark]

Apart from the S4?

[henners88]

Don't be silly Mark for goodness sake!

[pino]

Too late henners88 😜

[donKey jote]

Really ? :andrea:

uppppppppppppppppp
Múi giá»

[henners88]

Too late henners88 😜
Are you suggesting Mark has always been silly? :p

[pino]

Many times, lol :p :

[pino]

Back to topic...here's iOS 7 new designhttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/11/rumyjy9u.jpg

[pino]

Multitasking for all appshttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/11/guvypusy.jpg

[Mark]

It looks interesting. iOS has been due a full overhaul for a long while. I look forward to the official announcement on the Apple website for more details.

[CaptainRaiden]

Back to topic...here's iOS 7 new designhttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/11/rumyjy9u.jpg

http://www.wordans.com/wordansfiles/images/2012/4/3/135449/135449_340.jpg

[pino]

Contacts http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/11/uju7uguj.jpg

[pino]

Weather http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/11/e3ysyvy6.jpg

[pino]

Control Centerhttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/11/umy9yqy7.jpg

[Mark]

It's all very Windows 8!

[Mark]

http://www.apple.com/ios/ios7/

[Dave B]

At least they've finally killed off skeuomorphism in iOS, but there's not really anything particularly innovative. Notifications centre has been standard on Android for several years, and now Windows handles it even better; multitasking should never have been absent in the first place; and there's still no equivalent of "intents" to let apps talk seamlessly to each other. It all looks very nice and shiny, lord knows it needed a refresh, but it's pretty underwhelming.

[henners88]

It's got some welcome changes and yes it brings many features Android has had for a long time, but so what? It's a nice OS that hasn't brought anything particularly innovative, but its an improvement on an already pleasant experience IMO. Hopefully we won't be waiting too long for it and I can go back to sleep on this subject for another few months.

[airshifter]

It's got some welcome changes and yes it brings many features Android has had for a long time, but so what? It's a nice OS that hasn't brought anything particularly innovative, but its an improvement on an already pleasant experience IMO. Hopefully we won't be waiting too long for it and I can go back to sleep on this subject for another few months.

IMO what Apple does best is consolidate due to lack of hardware options. Because of that they can make a stable platform that can be used and become friendly to virtually all of their market. On the flip side if you and me traded Android phones we would likely both immediately be lost. Different hardware, software revisions, numerous settings changes on each would make life much harder. Two iPhone users could switch phones without much issue most of the time.

[henners88]

IMO what Apple does best is consolidate due to lack of hardware options. Because of that they can make a stable platform that can be used and become friendly to virtually all of their market. On the flip side if you and me traded Android phones we would likely both immediately be lost. Different hardware, software revisions, numerous settings changes on each would make life much harder. Two iPhone users could switch phones without much issue most of the time.
I agree totally. I'm looking forward to seeing iOS 7 working properly and wish they could release it a little sooner. We've had months of users saying the OS is stale and in need of a redesign, yet this effort is already being criticised. I really don't get it and unfortunately there is a growing trend where people dislike for the sake of it. It doesn't appear to be ugly or stepping too far away from what iOS 6 is in terms of general appearance, and introducing multi tasking is something that has been asked for over the past 4 or so years.

Its different, not overly innovative but Apple tend to sit back and choose the best of what is already out there anyway. I've been using iOS for 9 months now and can't say I am disappointed. I loved Android though and still won't rule out going back to it, but iOS is a stable, pleasant to use OS that does all the day to day tasks well. I love podcasts and iTunes has improved vastly since I first started using it properly in 2005. I use Facetime to stay in touch with family and iMessage has been great amongst friends. I know there are alternatives but its what you enjoy using. I've been quite quiet on this thread for months because everything is going very well. :)

[BleAivano]

IMO what Apple does best is consolidate due to lack of hardware options. Because of that they can make a stable platform that can be used and become friendly to virtually all of their market. On the flip side if you and me traded Android phones we would likely both immediately be lost. Different hardware, software revisions, numerous settings changes on each would make life much harder. Two iPhone users could switch phones without much issue most of the time.

Well thats a typical iphone user comment which simply is is not correct, there are some differences but not as big as you claim.

I currently have a HTC desire, my dad has a Samsung GS2 and most menus are the same. Especially the settings menu are more or less identical.

[henners88]

Well thats a typical iphone user comment which simply is is not correct, there are some differences but not as big as you claim.

I currently have a HTC desire, my dad has a Samsung GS2 and most menus are the same. Especially the settings menu are more or less identical.
I wouldn't start labelling people as 'typical' because we don't know that for sure here. I can relate to what airshifter means there, but its not a massive difference. I've used Android for years and although the settings menu's are pretty much the same (its Android after all), the devices themselves are often different and a trio of buttons along the bottom often confuse things. My friends S4 is very different to my other mates entry level Sony Experia for instance. It just takes a bit of fiddling and that is not necessarily a bad thing as its what you are used to at the end of the day. I suppose with an iPhone the principles are roughly the same, although certain aspects can be hidden with pages and pages of apps if the iPhone user is less organised. Its not a competition amongst users, or at least it should be. Its not for me I know that :)

[airshifter]

Well thats a typical iphone user comment which simply is is not correct, there are some differences but not as big as you claim.

I currently have a HTC desire, my dad has a Samsung GS2 and most menus are the same. Especially the settings menu are more or less identical.

Being I don't use an iPhone, it's not a typical iPhone user comment. :)

For that matter I've never owned an iPhone. My daughter has an iPod but an older generation, and my Dad and Stepmom have iPhones. Though I chose Android for a number of reasons, I don't think the OS is nearly as user friendly, nor are most of them as stable. The first time I picked up an Apple device it was logical in use... you didn't have to adjust to a new OS or hardware.

[CaptainRaiden]

I think a lot of times people make the mistake of comparing the iPhone with any number of Android smartphones.

If you are going to compare an iPhone (a flagship device), to its competitor, it should be another flagship of course. An iPhone 5 should only be compared with other phones in its price range, namely the Galaxy S3, S4, HTC One, Xperia Z etc. to properly compare tech specs and features, and NOT entry level Android phones which are obviously aimed at a different type of consumer.

[henners88]

Being I don't use an iPhone, it's not a typical iPhone user comment. :)

For that matter I've never owned an iPhone. My daughter has an iPod but an older generation, and my Dad and Stepmom have iPhones. Though I chose Android for a number of reasons, I don't think the OS is nearly as user friendly, nor are most of them as stable. The first time I picked up an Apple device it was logical in use... you didn't have to adjust to a new OS or hardware.
Are you trying to say you're not typical after all?! That's a blow :p :)


I think a lot of times people make the mistake of comparing the iPhone with any number of Android smartphones.

If you are going to compare an iPhone (a flagship device), to its competitor, it should be another flagship of course. An iPhone 5 should only be compared with other phones in its price range, namely the Galaxy S3, S4, HTC One, Xperia Z etc. to properly compare tech specs and features, and NOT entry level Android phones which are obviously aimed at a different type of consumer.
I totally agree with what you say here, but I'm past the point of comparing these days. I can't see the point unless I'm due to upgrade. Listing why I prefer my choice and the reasons I dislike others isn't going to improve my experience or make me feel bad. Most of these flagship phones do virtually the same thing, just in different ways so its down to choice. I'm excited by iOS 7 because its something a little different again without going too far if you know what I mean. I can appreciate it will still lack the features Android offers but if it went too far in the direction of that, we'd have complaints that they were blatantly copying. Its one of those situations where expectations are made with the hope it falls short in many cases. I think I'll just enjoy what I've got :)

[CaptainRaiden]

I've gone past comparing as well. In fact I've lately lost interest in smartphones or tablets. These days whenever I see some new features, I'm like meh, that's it? :D I won't be upgrading my smartphone or tablet in the next 2 years at least, because I think what I have now is going to be good enough for a while.

My interest is now largely looming in another area as discussed in the other thread, and what I'm using my Android phone mostly these days is as an extended dashboard for sim racing:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMGdVjFOnLg

Only for Android at the moment, but should be coming soon for iOS. :D

[BleAivano]

Found a picture at a Swedish newspaper: http://heltnormalt.aftonbladet.se/img/wumo/2013/06/11.jpg
the text says "reality's zombies".

[henners88]

I don't get it?

[SGWilko]

Back to topic...here's iOS 7 new designhttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/11/rumyjy9u.jpg

So, they've taken this long to make the iPhone do what Android has done from the start? That's progress.... ;)

Oh, and parallax.

[pino]

Wilko, it's different on the iPhone...and it looks better :p :

[henners88]

So, they've taken this long to make the iPhone do what Android has done from the start? That's progress.... ;)

Oh, and parallax.
Yeah they've taken some of the better Android features but it still has the essence of iOS. It looks very nice I have to say :)

[Mark]

No operating system or in fact any product at all should ever introduce any feature or style which was ever on any other product before it.

[henners88]

No operating system or in fact any product at all should ever introduce any feature or style which was ever on any other product before it.
That is a bit difficult in certain markets and especially highly competitive ones. With mobile phones, users want certain features and manufacturers have no choice but to produce their own versions of what others have done. If they didn't, the iPhone's, Samsung's and HTC's etc wouldn't be the phones they are today because they'd all be trying to do something different. Look at car design for instance. Innovation only goes so far and I think Apple have taken some of the most useful features and used them in their product. This silly demand for thinking outside the box innovation worked fine a few years ago, but I think we have reached a point where smart phone owners know what they want from a device and the market research these companies do dictate how they develop their products. Your statement would make my job very very hard indeed if it was a reality.

[airshifter]

No operating system or in fact any product at all should ever introduce any feature or style which was ever on any other product before it.

So Apple would have the mouse?

What (if any) car company would get the wheel? Or engine?

[Mark]

So Apple would have the mouse?

What (if any) car company would get the wheel? Or engine?

Exactly my point ;)

[henners88]

Ah so we were playing the sarcasm guessing game after all. :)

[BleAivano]

So Apple would have the mouse?

What (if any) car company would get the wheel? Or engine?

Actually Apple did not invent the mouse, they stole it from Håkan Lans.

[henners88]

Actually Apple did not invent the mouse, they stole it from Håkan Lans.
And Microsoft kindly borrowed it eh? lol

[ioan]

And Microsoft kindly borrowed it eh? lol

That doesn't change what Jobs (Apple/Macintosh) did.

OK kindergarten, now you can go on with the useless bickering. :p

[henners88]

That doesn't change what Jobs (Apple/Macintosh) did.
No you're right ioan. I may have always been pro PC when it came to computers, but that doesn't change what Jobs did. A true innovator who brought something very different. A man Gates respected tremendously.

I have to point out though, there was no bickering, all tongue in cheek without a hint of heat. ;)

[Dave B]

No operating system or in fact any product at all should ever introduce any feature or style which was ever on any other product before it.
How about: no operating system or in fact any product manufacturer should ever introduce any feature or style which was ever on any other product before it then screen nauseating TV adverts implying that they were the first one to come up with that idea (for example contoured earbuds that you've been able to get in Poundland for a decade)? Better?

[henners88]

I've never seen an advert claiming they are the 'first' to do anything. Their marketing puts it across to the consumer in such a way that the viewer feels its a fantastic idea, whether that's annoying or not. I don't really have opinions on their adverts or any other phone ads on TV because they are what they are. Adverts are annoying intervals in the middle of program's I enjoy watching. What does annoy me in everyday life is people who have mocked what I have chosen to use because they have issues with its brand. I've encountered this a number of times now and people need to get a flippin grip.

[cali]

Wilko, it's different on the iPhone...and it looks better :p :
And the whole idea is stolen from Jolla Mobile's Sailfish OS

[Jag_Warrior]

Keon: It's not an iPhone replacement, but it's bloody good for €100 (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/03/my_month_with_firefox_os/)


While it's fun to play with the Keon, it's not the hardware that’s special - it's Firefox OS. After living with the Keon for more than a month, I can safely say Mozilla's vision of a web-based mobile future isn't just appealing, it feels inevitable.

There are some rough edges, though. Firefox OS is definitely not the new and shiny you've been looking for, rather it's the new and quietly revolutionary. The Keon as is comes pretty close to offering everything you'd need in a mobile device, but it's still not likely to tempt iOS or Android fans to switch. And that's just fine with Mozilla. The target market for Firefox OS isn't current iOS or Android users, it's the rest of the world - people who don't yet have a mobile internet device at all.
But before Firefox OS takes the currently-not-connected world by storm, it first has to get developers interested, hence the Keon phone.


The Keon is a solidly built piece of hardware with decent, though not great, specs and a screen that looks nearly identical to the iPhone 3G/GS.
The Keon has a 3.5-inch HVGA screen, 1GHz single-core processor, 512MB RAM, 3MP camera and 1,580mAh battery with up to a day's battery life. By contrast, the more recent iPhone - the 5 - packs a 4-inch screen, 1.2GHz dual-core chip, 1GB memory, 8MP rear and 1.2MP front camera, and allows up to eight hours of usage on the battery.
In short, the Keon's not going to wow gadget enthusiasts but it's about what you'd expect from a €100 (approximately) device: a good phone with a few compromises to make it affordable. However, it's a perfectly capable phone for developers who need to test their apps.

And it is developers, not end users, that Mozilla wants for Firefox OS right now because, after all, the Firefox OS simulator will only gets you so far. Some things, like apps that take advantage of the accelerometer or user location, really need to be tested in the real world, which is what developers can do with the Keon.

The thing about familiar tools is you know what to do with them. Developers can make or break a platform but Mozilla has a distinct advantage over other platforms trying to break into the iOS-Android duopoly: the web.
Firefox OS apps are built using the same basic toolkit you'd use to build any website: HTML, CSS and JavaScript. It's tempting to say if you can built a webpage you can build a Firefox OS app. Technically that's true: any webpage can be installed as a Firefox OS app even if its author has never heard of Firefox OS, but to take advantage of the unique attributes of a mobile device you'll need to go a little beyond a simple webpage.

Has anyone here been following this development? What do you think? Sounds very interesting, IMO.

[SGWilko]

I've never seen an advert claiming they are the 'first' to do anything. Their marketing puts it across to the consumer in such a way that the viewer feels its a fantastic idea, whether that's annoying or not. I don't really have opinions on their adverts or any other phone ads on TV because they are what they are. Adverts are annoying intervals in the middle of program's I enjoy watching. What does annoy me in everyday life is people who have mocked what I have chosen to use because they have issues with its brand. I've encountered this a number of times now and people need to get a flippin grip.

All ads are a tenuous link to reality. For example, car manufacturers suggest their latest offering will achieve xx.xmpg, but only if you drive backwards while singing numbers from the Sound of Music.

Apple adds show slick and lightening fast page loads - and that's bigger balls that a Great Dane.

Then there is teh latest Kindle ad - with devices being used in the pool, put in the underseat storage of a moped etc. Try actually doing that, and then see if - when it gets wet or the screen cracks, and you explain why - they replace it under warranty.......

[henners88]

All ads are a tenuous link to reality. For example, car manufacturers suggest their latest offering will achieve xx.xmpg, but only if you drive backwards while singing numbers from the Sound of Music.

Apple adds show slick and lightening fast page loads - and that's bigger balls that a Great Dane.

Then there is teh latest Kindle ad - with devices being used in the pool, put in the underseat storage of a moped etc. Try actually doing that, and then see if - when it gets wet or the screen cracks, and you explain why - they replace it under warranty.......
Yeah its all mostly rubbish, but as annoying as some are, people remember them. Apple make it all look very clean so the viewer remembers the product rather than a scenario. Plus they make Siri look very good but in reality it rarely brings back the results you ask for. You are right about page loads but I think that is the same of any phone advert. They don't want you to know you'll be looking at a status bar for a fraction of a second longer than you actually have to. Having tested my mates Samsung S4 side by side with the iPhone, I have to say the iPhone is a fraction quicker when loading apps and internet pages. Smaller processor in the iPhone but doesn't have the bloatware the S4 comes with I suppose. Then again its so marginal its hardly going to put people off IMO. The S4 is a nice looking phone though I have to say, just a little too big for my tastes.

[airshifter]

Keon: It's not an iPhone replacement, but it's bloody good for €100 (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/03/my_month_with_firefox_os/)



Has anyone here been following this development? What do you think? Sounds very interesting, IMO.

Haven't seen one, but the concept is sound. I think most users really just settle in to average day to day use that doesn't involve much horsepower or the need for a million features. Being you can already get very capable phones for cheap, I see no reason why there isn't room for another one.

[Jag_Warrior]

Haven't seen one, but the concept is sound. I think most users really just settle in to average day to day use that doesn't involve much horsepower or the need for a million features. Being you can already get very capable phones for cheap, I see no reason why there isn't room for another one.

I've been using the Firefox browser for a couple of years now. And if they can get this phone to market, I could see myself at least trying one, though not getting tied into a contract or anything - just something to play with. I really like Mozilla's approach. IMO, as a browser, it is what Android pretends to be as a mobile OS. If they do a good job of keeping viruses and spyware apps off the platform (unlike Android), maybe I would get one and keep it longer term. Really, I'd like to do something that supports Mozilla. I'm fairly well tied into the Apple ecosystem with other devices, so as a primary phone, I'll probably break down and get an iPhone next year - especially if they bump the screen size up to 4.5"+.

[Dave B]

You are right about page loads but I think that is the same of any phone advert. They don't want you to know you'll be looking at a status bar for a fraction of a second longer than you actually have to.
"Sequence shortened" is almost as bad as "Not actual gameplay footage", and neither have any place in adverts. :angryfire

[henners88]

"Sequence shortened" is almost as bad as "Not actual gameplay footage", and neither have any place in adverts. :angryfire
I agree Dave :)
I hate nothing more than watching a game trailer and then realise its an animated film rather than what you see on screen. I suppose its a loophole they use to make the products seem better plus they have limited seconds to fit in their promo material. Not so great for us however.

[race aficionado]

My wife just joined the iphone camp.

She was a BB user and finally caved in with all of her family connected with the iphone network.

We got it for $100 bucks (she did have to give them her BB though - but $100.00 for a brand new iPhone 5 aint bad.)

[henners88]

My wife just joined the iphone camp.

She was a BB user and finally caved in with all of her family connected with the iphone network.

We got it for $100 bucks (she did have to give them her BB though - but $100.00 for a brand new iPhone 5 aint bad.)
I can't believe what I am reading?! She could have got a 19 core breakdragon powerhorse with a 10 inch screen running Asteroid for less than that. What was she thunking? Nah seriously, not a bad deal and just in time for the new OS in the autumn. :)

[CaptainRaiden]

I can't believe what I am reading?! She could have got a 19 core breakdragon powerhorse with a 10 inch screen running Asteroid for less than that. What was she thunking?

You wannabe geek, you won't get something THAT amazing. But for $100, something much better than an iPhone 5? Definitely. :p :p :p

[henners88]

You wannabe geek, you won't get something THAT amazing. But for $100, something much better than an iPhone 5? Definitely. :p :p :p
lol, yeah but if you want iOS there is no competition. I suppose Mrs Race could have waited to see what Apple launch later in the summer, whether that's the iPhone 5S or 6, but the iPhone 5 is still a very nice phone especially for only a $100 IMO. :)

[CaptainRaiden]

Erm, I was joking... ;)

[airshifter]

I can't believe what I am reading?! She could have got a 19 core breakdragon powerhorse with a 10 inch screen running Asteroid for less than that. What was she thunking? Nah seriously, not a bad deal and just in time for the new OS in the autumn. :)

The breakdragon is now obsolete. When mobilenerder.com tested with spreadsheets that took two days to calculate, it was bested by several seconds. The droidtroller 50 core and others beat it. I can tell the difference every time I open an app with my droidtroller. A nanosecond here, a nanosecond there, it all adds up! :)

[henners88]

Erm, I was joking... ;)
I know.
I started my post acknowledging that.... Always awkward when a joke has to be analysed and explained 'lol'.

[CaptainRaiden]

The breakdragon is now obsolete. When mobilenerder.com tested with spreadsheets that took two days to calculate, it was bested by several seconds. The droidtroller 50 core and others beat it. I can tell the difference every time I open an app with my droidtroller. A nanosecond here, a nanosecond there, it all adds up! :)

I know, right? And Crapple is still more expensive! :eek:

[henners88]

The breakdragon is now obsolete. When mobilenerder.com tested with spreadsheets that took two days to calculate, it was bested by several seconds. The droidtroller 50 core and others beat it. I can tell the difference every time I open an app with my droidtroller. A nanosecond here, a nanosecond there, it all adds up! :)
I guess I'm out of touch with all these doors or cores as they are now known, thrown into the equation. :p

[airshifter]

I know, right? And Crapple is still more expensive! :eek:

I know you only see one side of the fence, but I see both. I think there is valid reason they get away with charging what they do, even though in theory the products are inferior. I've been building my own PCs for many years and have seen how theory is often trumped by reality, or in many cases by the interface making slower performance still more desirable.

The Crappletastic 8 will sell well IMO, regardless of what it is.

[CaptainRaiden]

I know you only see one side of the fence, but I see both.

Teach me master! :eek:


I think there is valid reason they get away with charging what they do.

See, that's the thing! They don't anymore. ;) And there is no valid reason. :p They don't even have quite the same monopoly or market share anymore either. The consumer is waking up.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/14/tech/mobile/smartphone-sales-apple-android

And because of that, Apple are forced to change their business model or at least introduce new products to stay in the game:

Cheap iPhone release date, news and rumours | News | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/cheap-iphone-release-date-news-and-rumours-1144216)



The Crappletastic 8 will sell well IMO, regardless of what it is.

That's a rather bold statement IMO, not based on recent stats I assume. Anyway, that remains to be seen. A few more debacles like Apple "Maps" :laugh: and continued patronizing of customers, and they will start feeling the heat.

[henners88]

Oh god I knew a little bit of banter couldn't stay that way without becoming a dig at some point.

Considering how positive the reception has been so far for iOS 7, I don't think Apple are in any danger of losing out. Its a bit of a double edged sword with the sales thing because Android is an OS covering many manufacturers so will undoubtedly outsell Apple due to its outreach. A huge chunk of the Android market is in lower end handsets too, which at this point in time Apple do not contribute to. There are plans to introduce a budget iPhone but that is more due to demand than desperation on Apple's part. We are entering an age now where manufacturers are starting to listen to consumers more and introduce demands. Much like Microsoft with the latest X Box for example. Android sold way more than any other in 2012 but that was to be expected for reasons stated above. Apple released a new handset and OS at the end of 2012 and Android shared itself across multiple releases. Its one manufacturer with its own OS against a market of many manufacturers sharing Googles OS. This makes it even more confusing when you consider Apple made more profit from its mobile sector in 2012 than any other manufacturer. Many put this down to phone manufacturers making less profit on devices like the Nexus and so many companies sharing a piece of the pie in their chosen market. Samsung were rumoured to be looking into departing from Android and going it alone to attempt to truly conquer the market with its own totally in house product. Whether this will happen remains to be seen, I doubt it will.

Both Samsung's and Apple's stock has fallen in the last 6 months. Apple experienced this first and many took delight in the apparent downfall, whereas not so many weeks later Apple's biggest rival experienced it too with poorer than expected sales of their latest release. It happens and companies this popular usually recover and have. I know it was revealed recently that although more Android devices were sold in the UK, iOS devices are accountable for the largest share of mobile web traffic here. This obviously takes into account iPads are still very much the tablet of choice here too. My second cousin is a tech analyst for the BBC and often appears on Business breakfast giving his views and recently mentioned that a fair chunk of Android phones are owned by senior people looking for a cheap handset and never really use them to their full potential, i.e constantly connected to 3G etc.

On to yet again the point about hardware pricing and to be honest I thought this had been put to bed. A friend of mine bought a Samsung Galaxy S4 some weeks ago and paid out more for the handset and contract than I paid for my iPhone on launch. Now if Apple were so greedy with their pricing, why are they no longer the most expensive? Sure you could say if you don't like it buy something else. I think this comes down to choice of OS. If you want iOS then there is only one option and if you are not prepared to pay for it, then its too bad. With other platforms there is a larger scale of products to choose from. You can buy an Android phone for 40 quid and contribute to their sales, but if you want a flagship model you have to be prepared to pay 400 quid plus which brings it up to Apple's pricing. I don't think there is much in it now and Apple have proven year after year that they keep their pricing consistent with the previous release. I know the Captain was predicting the iPhone 5 would suddenly be a hundred quid more expensive on launch but the reality was they charged the same amount as the iPhone 4 and 4S. The Samsung Galaxy S3 and S4 here have not been quite so consistent here with previous releases however. Having played with the S4 I have to say its an impressive piece of kit and Android is a lot better than if was when I used it daily. Obviously with Android it demands more powerful hardware which is why models boast quad core snapdragon with so much ram which all sounds very impressive and no doubt is to those interested. I know the benchmark testing has shown the S4 to more than live up to expectation even if many were disappointed it was too different to the S3. Having tested the S4 first hand I have to say its physical experience that counts rather than impressive pie charts. My friends S4 was slower than my iPhone on certain tasks. Opening an email, opening Chrome, Youtube, loading a webpage on the browser were all marginally slower on the S4. Why is this? Not that it really matters in day to day life to me but to some people it obviously does. I don't pretend to understand all the in's and out's of software and can only really comment from what I have seen and experienced. Maybe others have an explanation?

Although much of what I have said above is in defence of Apple's situation, I'm not trying to play them off against each other because I've always said they serve different sectors of the market anyway. I don't agree Apple is trying to dominate the market because they haven't attempted to cover all the bases the likes of Android and WP8 have. They are still a popular consumer and business brand and the likes of many are looking forward to IOS 7 and the hardware offerings later in the year. They both co exist and are dominate amongst their own customer base. I know people who have moved from iOS to Android and vice versa but it will always come down to personal taste. I'm happy on iOS for now and watch with interest what they all offer because I've never been brand loyal. If someone offers something better IMO I will jump ship and try it out. I find liking a company too much or hating a company just for the sake of it just limits your own options in the future. :)

*essay alert - I think I need another extended break from this topic after that! :p )

[SGWilko]

Apple was never a brand you would associate with producing goods for the 'budget' market. It clearly demonstrates [for me at least] that the overinflated prices charged by Apple is now the reason for this shift.

Once they start making affordable products, the high end stuff will be hard to justify IMO.

[CaptainRaiden]

Oh god I knew a little bit of banter couldn't stay that way without becoming a dig at some point.

It seems you lot can dish it out, but have problems taking it.

As for the rest of it, sorry henners, didn't read, too long. I know you put a lot of effort into it, but after the first few lines I had this strange feeling of deja vu, and I'm in a big hurry for work.

Anyway, major changes to iOS and rumors of a cheaper iPhone have come for a reason. I thought this might be a good read - iPhone sales projections are now so low it (http://news.yahoo.com/iphone-sales-projections-now-low-ridiculous-141537700.html)


*essay alert - I think I need another extended break from this topic after that! :p )

Yep, we all do! ;)

[henners88]

It seems you lot can dish it out, but have problems taking it.

As for the rest of it, sorry henners, didn't read, too long. I know you put a lot of effort into it, but after the first few lines I had this strange feeling of deja vu, and I'm in a big hurry for work.

Anyway, major changes to iOS and rumors of a cheaper iPhone have come for a reason. I thought this might be a good read - iPhone sales projections are now so low it (http://news.yahoo.com/iphone-sales-projections-now-low-ridiculous-141537700.html)

Fair enough, I won't open your link at fear of wasting any more of my valuable time. It appears you are the victim of your opening line too. Others can't take it but you couldn't be bothered to read my post because presumably you couldn't take it either lol? At least I go on my break with a smile on my face. :D

[henners88]

Apple was never a brand you would associate with producing goods for the 'budget' market. It clearly demonstrates [for me at least] that the overinflated prices charged by Apple is now the reason for this shift.

Once they start making affordable products, the high end stuff will be hard to justify IMO.
They need to produce a fair amount of low end stuff for it make any impact on its higher end products. Other companies seem to manage to produce both and demand higher prices. Why would you buy a Ford Mondeo when you can get a Fiesta for considerably less? Every product offers a different experience and no doubt the £350 iPhone will be lacking in features compared to the high end device. Your not just going to be paying a premium for a bit of aluminium on the back and sides when you could get the same experience with a polycarbonate model. These things have to be justified and Apple are not stupid enough to undercut their flagship model. Samsung haven't provided consumers with the same hardware at both ends of their range because that makes little sense too. They have though increased the prices of their flagship phones which bring them in line with the brand you suggest is 'over inflated'. People have no issues there though because they consider one better than the other.

[henners88]

I knew Apple were not going to be silly with their pricing:

Cheap iPhone won't actually be that cheap, says purported manufacturer | News | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/cheap-iphone-won-t-actually-be-that-cheap-says-rumored-manufacturer-1160581)

:)

[CaptainRaiden]

Fair enough, I won't open your link at fear of wasting any more of my valuable time.

Shucks, those 5 seconds were a complete waste of time, innit?


It appears you are the victim of your opening line too. Others can't take it but you couldn't be bothered to read my post because presumably you couldn't take it either lol?

Eh? You didn't get it. I was talking about the sarcastic and backhanded digs you and airpasser were taking at anybody who dares to question the absolutely correct and fair pricing of Crapple, but when the glove is on the other hand, it's not so peachy anymore and sense of humor goes out the window. I wasn't talking about the essaytastic repetitive carbon copies of the same old argument that has been done to death in this thread.


At least I go on my break with a smile on my face. :D

Good for you, even more so because you felt the need to share that with everyone! Here I was sitting thinking you were punching a hole in your neighbor's wall. :p ;)

[CaptainRaiden]

I knew Apple were not going to be silly with their pricing:

Cheap iPhone won't actually be that cheap, says purported manufacturer | News | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/cheap-iphone-won-t-actually-be-that-cheap-says-rumored-manufacturer-1160581)

:)

Well, of course! It would be silly not to make money off of cheap plastic, D'oh!

The fact that they are even considering a cheaper iPhone means that several consumer voices and constant annoyance with their pricing by several review websites has finally reached Cupertino, and the company is responding. It would be bad business not to, as not everyone is interested in a £500 smartphone.

[henners88]

He's back!! :D


Eh? You didn't get it. I was talking about the sarcastic and backhanded digs you and airpasser were taking at anybody who dares to question the absolutely correct and fair pricing of Crapple, but when the glove is on the other hand, it's not so peachy anymore and sense of humor goes out the window. I wasn't talking about the essaytastic repetitive carbon copies of the same old argument that has been done to death in this thread.
To be honest I don't get the impression from you that its ever done in good humour or in jest. Myself and 'airshifter' are owners of both Android and iOS devices so we tend to give our opinions on the more positive sides to things rather than having an obvious dislike for a brand. You also had a dig at airshifter with a rather unnecessary name for him above which I think was a little out of order considering he's been very civil in getting his point across. At fear of accusing you of being ironic with your above comments I have to say it appears to be you that can't really take the criticisms and get more wound up by my replies than I do of yours. My defence of Apple's pricing has not changed and apologies but suggesting I come up with a new argument is pointless when I believe my previous (now lost) responses in this thread still hold the same weight now as the day I made them originally. You haven't changed your mind on this particular matter yet you expect me to come up with a new kind of response? I don't think so sonny Jim lol. If that is the topic under discussion, then that is what it is. :s mokin:

Have a good weekend everyone, finished work and off to decorate. :)

[CaptainRaiden]

To be honest I don't get the impression from you that its ever done in good humour or in jest. Myself and 'airshifter' are owners of both Android and iOS devices so we tend to give our opinions on the more positive sides to things rather than having an obvious dislike for a brand. You also had a dig at airshifter with a rather unnecessary name for him above which I think was a little out of order considering he's been very civil in getting his point across. At fear of accusing you of being ironic with your above comments I have to say it appears to be you that can't really take the criticisms and get more wound up by my replies than I do of yours. My defence of Apple's pricing has not changed and apologies but suggesting I come up with a new argument is pointless when I believe my previous (now lost) responses in this thread still hold the same weight now as the day I made them originally. You haven't changed your mind on this particular matter yet you expect me to come up with a new kind of response? I don't think so sonny Jim lol. If that is the topic under discussion, then that is what it is. :s mokin:

Do lighten up henners. The only one getting wounded up here is you with your two page essay earlier. The thing is that the landscape has changed, devices have changed, OS' have changed, Apple are no longer the leaders, and with their declining sales, budget iPhone offering and lowering prices of the iPhone 5, it's proof enough that they have paid heed to their criticisms. Yet your posts are exact carbon copies of the ones from one year ago with the same rhetoric defending Apple's pricing, when they themselves have lowered it in response to market pressure. Get along with the times grandpa. :p :p

And yeah, I agree, it's better to kill this topic with fire as it will only go in circles again, if past history is anything to go by. It's only electronic devices after all and none of us are getting paid by Apple, Android, Microsoft or Nokia to waste our precious Friday time on the forum.

[ioan]

They need to produce a fair amount of low end stuff for it make any impact on its higher end products.

Is it possible to make a cheaper iPhone?
I guess they will just change the name and the price, the handset is cheapo anyway.

[race aficionado]

And to continue the circle of the conversation, it comes back to the basic premise:
Are you happy with your phone?
I sure am.
I transitioned from BB to iPhone a while back
and I don't plan any changes on something that works very well for me and my family,
and yes, and with a cost that I am willing to pay.

Cheers to the tech-geeks and entrepreneurs out there that are in the forefront of technology and are giving us the possibility
of owning and using the cell phones we choose to buy.

I salute you!


It's Friday, okay?

[Mark]

It's a good point. I have a 4S who's basic design is 3 years old. But I'm still happy with it and typing this post on it. I've yet to see another phone which would justify taking out a new contract.

[donKey jote]

It's Friday, okay?

Freedom Friday :cool:

[TRN_Hill]

Sounds cool

[Daniel]

My Ativ S has been playing funny buggers of late. At the moment it's not charging properly, not connecting to my PC and every once in a while it does a reset. Wasn't too bothered about the reset tbh, but not charging properly was getting annoying. Took it to Phones 4 U and the guy said started apologising for not being able to just replace it on the spot because I'd bought it over the phone. I wasn't bothered tbh, I popped the sim in my Lumia 800 and moved on with my life :) It did make me wonder what sort of customers they deal with normally though, they must get "but what am I go to do!?!?!?!?!?!" quite a lot. He apologised a few times and I was almost tempted to say "Did I complain? Did I ask for a replacement? No! Shut the **** up and book my phone in and send it off to get repaired!"

[Dave B]

It did make me wonder what sort of customers they deal with normally though...

I used to manage stores for one of their rivals, and the short answer is "a-holes".


they must get "but what am I go to do!?!?!?!?!?!" quite a lot. He apologised a few times and I was almost tempted to say "Did I complain? Did I ask for a replacement? No! Shut the **** up and book my phone in and send it off to get repaired!"

Quite. The worst customers are the "I know my rights" brigade, who invariably don't, but once saw an episode of Watchdog. Or the "I'll take you to court" threats which immediately require me to only deal with them in writing and therefore guarantee they won't be helped instore.

Obviously 99% of customers in any given day were perfectly fine, but even now it's the 1% of morons who stick in the memory. :s

[Daniel]

Quite. The worst customers are the "I know my rights" brigade, who invariably don't, but once saw an episode of Watchdog. Or the "I'll take you to court" threats which immediately require me to only deal with them in writing and therefore guarantee they won't be helped instore.

yeah, reminds me of a forum I post on, something small goes wrong with a car and people are talking about rejecting the car..... Whoa whoa whoa! Step back for a moment here! You've had a small problem with a car which could be sorted in a day or two and you're wanting to reject it why?

[airshifter]

And to continue the circle of the conversation, it comes back to the basic premise:
Are you happy with your phone?
I sure am.
I transitioned from BB to iPhone a while back
and I don't plan any changes on something that works very well for me and my family,
and yes, and with a cost that I am willing to pay.

Cheers to the tech-geeks and entrepreneurs out there that are in the forefront of technology and are giving us the possibility
of owning and using the cell phones we choose to buy.

I salute you!


It's Friday, okay?

This aspect is what amazes me about the phone debate. People act as if EVERYONE should want the same phone and OS, regardless of which their choice is. We have countless other products that the tech, options, opinions, uses, etc are wildly varied, but none of those provoke the wars that phones do.

We own both products and I find both a very good value, just for differing reasons. And really all the haters and/or fanbois in the world won't likely change the decision on the next purchase. :)

[CaptainRaiden]

My Ativ S has been playing funny buggers of late. At the moment it's not charging properly, not connecting to my PC and every once in a while it does a reset. Wasn't too bothered about the reset tbh, but not charging properly was getting annoying. Took it to Phones 4 U and the guy said started apologising for not being able to just replace it on the spot because I'd bought it over the phone. I wasn't bothered tbh, I popped the sim in my Lumia 800 and moved on with my life :) It did make me wonder what sort of customers they deal with normally though, they must get "but what am I go to do!?!?!?!?!?!" quite a lot. He apologised a few times and I was almost tempted to say "Did I complain? Did I ask for a replacement? No! Shut the **** up and book my phone in and send it off to get repaired!"

Tsk tsk, Daniel. This wouldn't have happened if you had only bought an Apple. They would have replaced your device with the latest one, added in a hot fudge sundae and thrown in a foot massage for good measure.

[CaptainRaiden]

This aspect is what amazes me about the phone debate. People act as if EVERYONE should want the same phone and OS, regardless of which their choice is. We have countless other products that the tech, options, opinions, uses, etc are wildly varied, but none of those provoke the wars that phones do.

We own both products and I find both a very good value, just for differing reasons. And really all the haters and/or fanbois in the world won't likely change the decision on the next purchase. :)

Then don't bother with this thread. Simply block people or stay away. OR better yet, make a new thread where only positive comments are allowed.

What really grinds my gears is folks swearing they don't have allegiances towards one specific brand, but then spend insane amounts of time on the forum defending that very brand. Or in fact get touchy at the slightest mention of their device. Then there are backhanded sarcastic jibes, for no good reason out of the blue, at people who prefer the rival brand or who quote benchmark scores. My reply to Daniel above is not quite in the same vein, but is a similar example. If you don't care either way, don't bother with such threads. If you do care, then stick to it and own up. Decide.

Then there are those with the annoying meathead bully jock mentality, where simply being ignorant about tech details is supposed to be cooler :confused: and anybody who knows more than you is branded a geek/nerd/fanboi.

[henners88]

Do lighten up henners. The only one getting wounded up here is you with your two page essay earlier.
You see this is why its silly to refuse to read another persons post and then make a statement like this ^^. My post was long, perhaps too long but there was nothing in it that suggests I was wound up or frustrated. I repeat some of my previous opinions and back them up with examples, discussing how I think Apple are moving forward in regards to iOS 7. I discuss how I feel Apple are coping in today's market with how they may fair in the coming months and share my recent experience using the Samsung Galaxy S4, to which I was highly impressed. I also discussed how far I think Android has improved as an OS since I last used it. Positive stuff, no disdain or frustration because the brand of my phone is under scrutiny.

All of this you would have realised had you bothered to take 3 or 4 minutes to read what I wrote. Its all there in black and white. Its very disappointing and a waste of my time adding to this if the flow of discussion is dictated by several individuals intent on only one aim. I think all the accusations of iPhone owners taking um bridge here and affecting the thread has been settled in the last few posts as the content is bordering on juvenile IMO.

My interpretation of this thread is to discuss mobile phones and tablets, with the aim to discuss technology, new releases and opinions from our own experiences. The mobile market is not exactly running short of subject matter to discuss in terms of innovation at the moment with many new things coming in. I'm not interested in brand wars or watching others mock choices because they feel its light hearted amusement in their own selfish way. I don't see why myself and airshifter should be bullied off a thread and instructed not to post on it because others want to use it purely to mock Apple and their marketing and patent ethics. Lets share our experiences and discuss what we like and want to see coming to our mobile devices. If it really is a point of no return and we gentlemen really can't have a little respect for each other, then the thread really has run its course. Sad when you consider this topic is something that doesn't come to an end as technology develops by the day. A thread like this can be interesting and useful, for example when Mark asked about a simple to use phone for his mother.

I've tried to suggest this before, but can we try and get this thread onto a flow of a more positive nature and try and put brand prejudices aside? Come on guys and gals there's no point getting frustrated over a mobile device is there? :)

[airshifter]

Then don't bother with this thread. Simply block people or stay away. OR better yet, make a new thread where only positive comments are allowed.

What really grinds my gears is folks swearing they don't have allegiances towards one specific brand, but then spend insane amounts of time on the forum defending that very brand. Or in fact get touchy at the slightest mention of their device. Then there are backhanded sarcastic jibes, for no good reason out of the blue, at people who prefer the rival brand or who quote benchmark scores. My reply to Daniel above is not quite in the same vein, but is a similar example. If you don't care either way, don't bother with such threads. If you do care, then stick to it and own up. Decide.

Then there are those with the annoying meathead bully jock mentality, where simply being ignorant about tech details is supposed to be cooler :confused: and anybody who knows more than you is branded a geek/nerd/fanboi.

Rather comical and juvenile all in the same post. If we were loyal to one type over the other, we certainly wouldn't have both Apple and Android products in our home. My point is simply that both have strong and weak points, and those points may well be the primary driving issues with those that choose one over the other on a loyal basis.

I know that this thread originally started with the intent of hating Apple products and that some seem intent on making that the threads primary goal, but others actually have input on either and/or both types without bias. :)

As for this:



Then there are those with the annoying meathead bully jock mentality, where simply being ignorant about tech details is supposed to be cooler :confused: and anybody who knows more than you is branded a geek/nerd/fanboi.

Since I have to assume that is directed at me, I'll invite you to view the post counts of you and me on this thread. Being you have over 6 times as many posts as I do, and being that the vast majority oppose Apple products in any form, who is the one playing bully here? I'll openly admit I don't dig much into tech details regarding phones for the simple reason that I don't care. I won't ever build my own phone and as such any phone capable enough for my needs fits the bill for me regardless of whether it uses a genie in a bottle or an 8 core processor. My comments concerning "fanbois" has nothing to do with tech, but the numbers of obvious brand biased people, many who have never used both types of phones long enough to really give them a fair review IMO.

Now I could reduce myself to altering peoples screen names, digging at one brand phone, or applying shallow stereotypes to any that oppose my view. But my response to Race's post was to echo his sentiment.... if the end user is happy, why should anyone else get their blood pressure up over it?

[CaptainRaiden]

Rather comical and juvenile all in the same post. If we were loyal to one type over the other, we certainly wouldn't have both Apple and Android products in our home. My point is simply that both have strong and weak points, and those points may well be the primary driving issues with those that choose one over the other on a loyal basis.

I know that this thread originally started with the intent of hating Apple products and that some seem intent on making that the threads primary goal, but others actually have input on either and/or both types without bias. :)

I have never really seen you saying anything positive about Android or WP or anything else over Apple. So, you claiming to be unbiased doesn't really make sense, as there's an obvious bias towards Apple. Same goes for henners. You both may say nice tidbits here and there, but your number one preferred brand is still Apple. At least I admit that I am biased.


Since I have to assume that is directed at me, I'll invite you to view the post counts of you and me on this thread. Being you have over 6 times as many posts as I do, and being that the vast majority oppose Apple products in any form, who is the one playing bully here? I'll openly admit I don't dig much into tech details regarding phones for the simple reason that I don't care. I won't ever build my own phone and as such any phone capable enough for my needs fits the bill for me regardless of whether it uses a genie in a bottle or an 8 core processor. My comments concerning "fanbois" has nothing to do with tech, but the numbers of obvious brand biased people, many who have never used both types of phones long enough to really give them a fair review IMO.

I never forced anybody not to buy an Apple device or directly mocked their device either, even if others in this thread may have done so. My bone to pick has always been with Apple's pricing, and judging by the company's price reduction of their flagship model and budget iPhone offering recently, it has been a very legitimate complaint that thousands -- no wait, millions of other people have made, and the bigwigs at Cupertino have responded. So, I don't see what the big problem is?

Also, nice form to assume that people haven't used both devices. I used an iPhone 4s for a month before I went ahead and bought the Galaxy S3.


Now I could reduce myself to altering peoples screen names, digging at one brand phone, or applying shallow stereotypes to any that oppose my view.

Yes, but using backhanded cheap shots at people who quote benchmark scores and implying they're nerds is perfectly fine and very mature and unbiased at the same time. Come on.


But my response to Race's post was to echo his sentiment.... if the end user is happy, why should anyone else get their blood pressure up over it?

Then why does the happy end user care two flips about whatever some blood raging benchmark quoting geek has to say about their device?

This is quite a phenomenon. Person A says they're happy with their device and nobody's opinion is gonna make them change their mind. This person then knowingly gets in a debate about their preferred brand, gets upset at the slightest criticism of Apple, defends it hammers and tongs against benchmark scores until kingdom come, calls anybody who knows what processor is in their device, a "nerd" or a "geek". Then when the topic is no longer discussed, takes sarcastic cheap shots at people they may have argued this with before. And when they have to taste the same medicine, panties start flying about, words like fanboi are thrown around and we are in the same vicious cycle again.

[CaptainRaiden]

iPhone sales projections are now so low it (http://news.yahoo.com/iphone-sales-projections-now-low-ridiculous-141537700.html)

Cheap iPhone release date, news and rumours | News | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/cheap-iphone-release-date-news-and-rumours-1144216)

Apple decreasing the iPhone 5's price, and are soon to launch a budget iPhone.

I would consider this a victory for folks around the world who have been wasting their times on online forums, criticizing this aspect of the company over the past year. Very similar to how Microsoft has reacted rather quickly to the criticisms of the Xbox One.

This proves consumer feedback is still ultra important, and if you complain about something long enough, it will eventually change. ;)

[airshifter]

I have never really seen you saying anything positive about Android or WP or anything else over Apple. So, you claiming to be unbiased doesn't really make sense, as there's an obvious bias towards Apple. Same goes for henners. You both may say nice tidbits here and there, but your number one preferred brand is still Apple. At least I admit that I am biased.




If you actually paid attention, you would know that I carry an Android device as my phone. I've never carried an iPhone. But please continue with your drivel, as it's obvious that unless I bow to the Android gods and condemn Apple, in your mind I'll remain biased towards Apple! :laugh:


As for the rest of the post, not worth the waste of time other than to mention I really don't care what you buy, nor do I care if you want to spend 500 post trying to convince others that they should buy the same. But the fact is that anyone that wants can express an opinion, and that includes people that prefer the Apple products.

I'm short on time... we are going to stop some Android carrying kids in the neighborhood and bully them into buying iPhones. All those nerds and geeks do it sit around running benchmarks and talking tech garbage. We are going to force them into an OS that works! :)

[henners88]

If you actually paid attention, you would know that I carry an Android device as my phone. I've never carried an iPhone. But please continue with your drivel, as it's obvious that unless I bow to the Android gods and condemn Apple, in your mind I'll remain biased towards Apple! :laugh:
I have been accused here of being biased towards Apple for at least 2 years that I can remember. Long before I even owned an Apple product! Just because I liked the way iOS is laid out and the functionality I found was easier to use. I was positive about certain aspects of the iPhone and that was enough to label me. I loved the 'HTC Incredible S' (and the other 3 android handsets before that) I owned but ironically I was never labelled as an Android Fan simply because I shared similar opinions. For you Airshifter its more comical as you've admitted many times to not owning an iPhone, but because you are not using this thread to bash it, you get the label too. Perhaps we are older or something? That's my guess. Its all too easy to try and turn a discussion into sides.

I'm in the position now where I own an iPhone and use iOS daily and have done since October last year, so can address criticisms made here that I either don't agree with or perhaps agree with. For my needs it works and well. I didn't have a problem with the pricing of the iPhone because here in the UK the price was the same as the latest Samsung flagship phone of the time. I don't know how its priced elsewhere in the world but here the iPhone is in line. When I was ready to upgrade I very nearly bought the S3 as was discussed earlier in this thread. They were the same price on upgrade. I waited for the iPhone 5 to be released so I could judge them side by side and I chose the iPhone on two things. I preferred the interface of the OS for its simplicity and I preferred the handset because it was smaller than the Samsung. Two of my major needs addressed. My needs may well change in October 2014 when I am able to upgrade and perhaps by then I will be labelled as an Android fan instead. You have to love the internet. I'm not brand loyal in any sense of the word. If I like something I buy it regardless of what is written on it and generally if I can afford it. Same with anything.

Another amusing fact from this thread I wish to bring up. In the last 4 months I have recommended the Sony Xperia Z, Samsung S3 and S4 to people I know who have asked my advice on new phones. Of course I've mentioned the iPhone as a consideration but having discussed these peoples needs in a more mature level than could ever be had on this thread, it was clear their needs were very different to mine. Not everybody chooses to own the same phone and life would be pretty boring if they did. We can only share our opinions and experiences and make recommendations based on that. If I were biased, I wouldn't be in the business of doing such things and to be honest I think I have been pretty open here without resorting to bashing devices I have not used for any period of time. I don't feel I should be forced to pick sides just because a few guys on a forum feel its easier to do. I can't see the point in limiting my future purchases by slating a company who really doesn't have any impact on my life as a whole. Its counter-productive IMO. Anyway I'll join you here airshifter by having a bit of a laugh about all this and move on. Cheers :beer:

[CaptainRaiden]

If you actually paid attention, you would know that I carry an Android device as my phone. I've never carried an iPhone. But please continue with your drivel, as it's obvious that unless I bow to the Android gods and condemn Apple, in your mind I'll remain biased towards Apple!


We are going to force them into an OS that works!

No, no, not biased at all!

And carrying a device doesn't automatically make you unbiased. There have been a lot of negative things said about Apple, Android and WP in this thread. Where have you defended the other two? But Apple, Apple is a different story.


As for the rest of the post, not worth the waste of time other than to mention I really don't care what you buy, nor do I care if you want to spend 500 post trying to convince others that they should buy the same. But the fact is that anyone that wants can express an opinion, and that includes people that prefer the Apple products.

I could repeat it a thousand times, but if you're really that slow, then you're not going to get it. My problem has always been Apple's pricing. Never even told anybody not to express their opinions. In fact whenever someone posted that they bought an iPhone in this thread, I have never mocked their choice or device. Others have done so. I either congratulated or stayed away. And you can quote me on this.

The bone to pick always had been with company's exorbitant prices, not the consumer. The consumer can buy whatever they like. You lot have been trying to justify those prices saying Apple is a "luxury" brand for the last two years. :laugh: This is no longer true. Apple has had to bow to market pressure, because guess what, the consumer has finally decided with their wallets. And not just millions of consumers, but phone review websites have long been criticizing Apple's pricing. The result? 1. Budget iPhone offering. 2. What was once a $200 difference on Amazon between the two major flagship devices from Apple and Samsung, is now only $50. And if the trend continues, I expect it to go even lower.

You can go back a page and see which posts actually led us here. And if you don't wanna read "negative" opinions on a brand you love? Exercise your right to freedom and add me to your ignore list. Much smoother day for you I promise! :)

[henners88]

Apple's rumoured budget iPhone is still going to be a £400 device if you believe TechRadars prediction. They are making it more affordable, but its not going to be Nexus 4 level pricing. I think Apple are still maintaining their price range whilst satisfying an element of the market. The spy shots of the iPhone 5S show it looks very similar to the iPhone 5 and will bring an incremental update regarding internal hardware and my guess is this will be their next release. I've intrigued by the suggestions Apple have been forced down this route because of 'consumers have decided with their wallets'. Apple and Samsung's stock dipped last month due to a slow down in sales, but surely that is the market as a whole rather than one brand? Both companies have seen a rise in demand, just not the same peak they experienced in the first quarter. The phone market always goes through periods like this because people are keeping phones for longer these days on 24 month contracts.

Apple unlike their competitors release less hardware, so deal with demand over the course of a 10 month period approx. Samsung have released several models this year alone, therefore comparing the two flagship models is difficult. I don't think either company is struggling in terms of sales to be honest. I think Apple has undergone a management restructure and perhaps their philosophies have changed in terms of how they approach the market. You can't stick to the same business model forever. There is no shame in reaching out to consumers and offering a little more, and after all Apple are still the most profitable company coming out of all this. All very positive for the big players.

[CaptainRaiden]

I hope the techradar rumors aren't true, because after all it is going to be a watered down version of the flagship iPhone, and £400 is just too much for that IMHO. That won't be clever strategy by Apple, firstly because the device will already have words like "budget" and "cheaper" associated with it. It won't have quite the same charm as the iPhone 5. Second, I read it is made out of polycarbonate and not aluminum. Competitors will surely offer devices with much better value for money in the same price range.

As for the iPhone's price drop, it is now priced much closer to other flagships, which is fine by me. And yes, I think it is because consumers have spoken with their wallets. The sale of Android flagships has shot up quite considerably. At least 10 people I know personally have switched from Apple to Android, which is quite huge IMO, and that I think is because HTC, Samsung and Sony have done a good job this past year of "blinging" up the ads and dangling a nice carrot in front of them with all kinds of flashy features. Besides the HTC One, Galaxy S4 and Xperia Z are very potent devices.

For your third paragraph henners, I quite like Apple's new business model of listening and responding to the consumer and the market more. Fact is some consumers don't buy phones on contracts. And if an iPhone 5 is in the same price range that I'm looking at, truth be told, it suddenly goes high up in the list and becomes a very viable option! Apple had to slash prices sooner or later.

[henners88]

I hope the techradar rumors aren't true, because after all it is going to be a watered down version of the flagship iPhone, and £400 is just too much for that IMHO. That won't be clever strategy by Apple, firstly because the device will already have words like "budget" and "cheaper" associated with it. It won't have quite the same charm as the iPhone 5. Second, I read it is made out of polycarbonate and not aluminum. Competitors will surely offer devices with much better value for money in the same price range.
The thing is, Apple have at no point even hinted or suggested that a 'budget' iPhone is in the pipeline. A Taiwanese manufacturer claimed to be making it and may well have compromised their non disclosure agreement by talking about it, but that is the only evidence that such a device exists. I highly doubt Apple are going to introduce a new product by using the terminology 'budget or Cheap' either. If consumers are developing that perception right now, the marketing Apple use will surely over ride it like many of the rumours we see pre release. I've also seen rumours that the pricing could be as little as $99. If that is the case, then it'll be a very cut down model indeed and something I don't think much of the market will be looking for. It'll suit teenagers and those on a strict budget, or perhaps older people who want simplicity without the cost. Who knows? But right now its a rumour with no hints from Apple whatsoever.


At least 10 people I know personally have switched from Apple to Android, which is quite huge IMO, and that I think is because HTC, Samsung and Sony have done a good job this past year of "blinging" up the ads and dangling a nice carrot in front of them with all kinds of flashy features. Besides the HTC One, Galaxy S4 and Xperia Z are very potent devices.
I don't doubt the manufacturers you mention have done an excellent job with their offerings. The mobile market is strong right now, but none of them can continue the innovation race like we have seen over the past 18 months forever. I know this works with any form of product design. The demand can be maintained and I fear Samsung are in danger of diluting their Galaxy brand by releasing too many models under that name. I feel they should keep flagship branding separate from their more budget offerings. Just my opinion but this may have been one of the reasons why the S4 was less successful in comparison to its predecessor.

Your point about friend of yours moving from iPhone to Android is always going to be subjective. I know a couple of people who have dumped their iPhones in favour of other platforms, but also know a fair few people who have come the opposite way. Most people I know aren't into gadgets and devices like we see discussed here. they have whatever they are offered or they feel is cool at the time. I know people who say they have always fancied an iPhone and upgraded to one without really going into the details, something I would never contemplate doing. Our entire sales division were on Blackberry until December last year and now they all have iPhones and iPads. My wife's company have come the same way because the iPhone is cheaper on a business rate and they have the advantage of being able to monitor and lock certain aspects. I don't feel either of our experiences tell a true story of the way the market is going because its a lot vaster than our immediate group of friends.


For your third paragraph henners, I quite like Apple's new business model of listening and responding to the consumer and the market more. Fact is some consumers don't buy phones on contracts. And if an iPhone 5 is in the same price range that I'm looking at, truth be told, it suddenly goes high up in the list and becomes a very viable option! Apple had to slash prices sooner or later.
Some consumers undoubtedly buy their devices outright. I don't know anybody personally who has done that for a while due to how much phones cost these days. Its cheaper to get them on contract and retailers in the UK would rather you didn't buy a sim free handset for some reason. I certainly couldn't justify paying a lump sum of £600 for a phone when I could spread the cost over two years and not really miss the expense. The Nexus 4 was raved about on the internet but you try buying one of those in the UK or even spotting an advert for it. I still think consumers buying handsets outright are in the minority. I feel its consumers who wish to change their device more often than those on contract would rather pay out and sell it on, but many I think stick with what they have longer. I know I do. The iPhone 5 is still £529 for the 16GB and £599 for the 32GB so its come down a little in the last 8 months. I had to check that after you said the price had been slashed as I was expecting it to be closer to half price or something.

[Mark]

People also said there's no way they'd ever make a cut price iPad Mini either - and yet I have one.

The 'cut price' iPhone will be a good thing IMO, Apple can no longer rely on the premium market as the competition there is fierce, better to use the guts of an iPhone 4 to make an iPhone model which everyone can own.

My wife is looking to upgrade her 3GS, I've suggested she wait until the Apple announcement in the Autumn to see if this cut price iPhone comes along.


The iPhone 5 is still £529 for the 16GB and £599 for the 32GB so its come down a little in the last 8 months

That's the same price as it's always been.

[CaptainRaiden]

The thing is, Apple have at no point even hinted or suggested that a 'budget' iPhone is in the pipeline. A Taiwanese manufacturer claimed to be making it and may well have compromised their non disclosure agreement by talking about it, but that is the only evidence that such a device exists. I highly doubt Apple are going to introduce a new product by using the terminology 'budget or Cheap' either. If consumers are developing that perception right now, the marketing Apple use will surely over ride it like many of the rumours we see pre release. I've also seen rumours that the pricing could be as little as $99. If that is the case, then it'll be a very cut down model indeed and something I don't think much of the market will be looking for. It'll suit teenagers and those on a strict budget, or perhaps older people who want simplicity without the cost. Who knows? But right now its a rumour with no hints from Apple whatsoever.

Of course Apple wouldn't call it a budget or a cheap iPhone. :p I'm sure their marketing department will come up with something clever enough to appeal to the common man.


I don't doubt the manufacturers you mention have done an excellent job with their offerings. The mobile market is strong right now, but none of them can continue the innovation race like we have seen over the past 18 months forever. I know this works with any form of product design. The demand can be maintained and I fear Samsung are in danger of diluting their Galaxy brand by releasing too many models under that name. I feel they should keep flagship branding separate from their more budget offerings. Just my opinion but this may have been one of the reasons why the S4 was less successful in comparison to its predecessor.

I agree about the recent slew of devices from Samsung. There's too much clutter, yes, and I personally don't agree with it, but another way of looking at it is also that they are putting devices out there probably to suit every need, just because they can. And the fact that they're still finding buyers means there is a market out there. IMO though there should have been only two variants of the S4, the normal one and the rugged, waterproof one. Adding the mini and then the Galaxy camera is sort of overkill, but surprisingly they have tapped into a subset of consumers that desire those!

I mean who the heck wants to buy the new 6.4 inch Xperia Z?? Not me! But I have already heard people considering it.


Your point about friend of yours moving from iPhone to Android is always going to be subjective. I know a couple of people who have dumped their iPhones in favour of other platforms, but also know a fair few people who have come the opposite way. Most people I know aren't into gadgets and devices like we see discussed here. they have whatever they are offered or they feel is cool at the time. I know people who say they have always fancied an iPhone and upgraded to one without really going into the details, something I would never contemplate doing. Our entire sales division were on Blackberry until December last year and now they all have iPhones and iPads. My wife's company have come the same way because the iPhone is cheaper on a business rate and they have the advantage of being able to monitor and lock certain aspects. I don't feel either of our experiences tell a true story of the way the market is going because its a lot vaster than our immediate group of friends.

I am aware of that, as it is quite obvious. I was merely correlating Android's boost in sales directly with my immediate group of acquaintances, because I personally haven't seen such a major and sudden jump in my immediate vicinity, like ever. :D That all happened in the past 6 months. A bunch of attractive contracts, and they just slurped it up. The sucky thing is that me with a Galaxy S3 is the one with the oldest model now. :p


Some consumers undoubtedly buy their devices outright. I don't know anybody personally who has done that for a while due to how much phones cost these days. Its cheaper to get them on contract and retailers in the UK would rather you didn't buy a sim free handset for some reason. I certainly couldn't justify paying a lump sum of £600 for a phone when I could spread the cost over two years and not really miss the expense. The Nexus 4 was raved about on the internet but you try buying one of those in the UK or even spotting an advert for it. I still think consumers buying handsets outright are in the minority. I feel its consumers who wish to change their device more often than those on contract would rather pay out and sell it on, but many I think stick with what they have longer. I know I do. The iPhone 5 is still £529 for the 16GB and £599 for the 32GB so its come down a little in the last 8 months. I had to check that after you said the price had been slashed as I was expecting it to be closer to half price or something.

That's because phone contracts in UK and US are MUCH more attractively priced than anywhere else in the world. In some countries, the phone contracts are absurd, and in others they don't even exist. So, if you want a flagship smartphone, it is cheaper to buy it on a credit card and pay it off in months, just like you would with a contract, and get a much cheaper sim-only contract.

For example, where I am right now, to get an iPhone 5 32 GB, you pay €294 upfront, and €65 per month for two years. :laugh: - https://www.vodafone.ro/shop/telefoane/iphone-5-32gb-negru (Chrome should translate the page)

And even then you don't get quite the contract you get in the UK - Apple iPhone 5 32GB black - Buy Apple iPhone deals on a Vodafone UK | overview (http://shop.vodafone.co.uk/shop/mobile-phone/apple-iphone-5-32-gb-black)

I believe UK providers some will even give you the handset for free? Of course, contracts in other countries will get better over time, but right now for someone outside the UK and US, it makes sense to buy a sim-free handset. Another big perk is that they are not locked by the network, and if you are someone that wants to tinker around with OS reinstall, especially with Android, it's easier and you're not breaking any law.

The iPhone 5 is only about £40 or £50 pounds extra over the S4 on Amazon, whereas the iPhone 4S was at one point a full £150 more expensive than the Galaxy S3. The gap between the flagships has reduced by over £100, so yes, things have changed for the better, as the market has become exciting and opened up more options for the consumer.

[CaptainRaiden]

That's the same price as it's always been.

Apple have dropped £30 in the UK, and the 16 GB is now available for £500.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-iPhone-SIM-FREE-UNLOCKED/dp/B009EDXHK4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1372411818&sr=8-2&keywords=iPhone+5

The price drop may not be major in the UK or US, as they have always been Apple's strongest markets. But they have further dropped prices by £50, and even £80 in some second and third world countries to place it competitively in the same ballpark as its direct flagship competitors.

[henners88]

That's the same price as it's always been.
That's what I thought.
iPhone 5 - Buy new iPhone 5 SIM Free or Pay as you go - Apple Store (UK) (http://store.apple.com/uk/buy/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone5)
I have a feeling this price drop is from selected third party retailers rather than Apple directly.


That's because phone contracts in UK and US are MUCH more attractively priced than anywhere else in the world. In some countries, the phone contracts are absurd, and in others they don't even exist. So, if you want a flagship smartphone, it is cheaper to buy it on a credit card and pay it off in months, just like you would with a contract, and get a much cheaper sim-only contract.
I have to say Captain this is probably why I haven't been able to see your point for much of this thread. The iPhone is expensive where ever you buy it in comparison to budget models, but its always been within range of competitors flagship models, at least here. I've openly admitted several times I have no idea how the pricing works abroad with regard to the iPhone. I know when I upgraded in October, the Samsung Galaxy S3 was very similar in price to the iPhone 5, hence the confusion when I've seen it stated the iPhone is an extortionate price.

Another beauty about the UK mobile market is the ability to negotiate a contract. I never accept the pricing on a website or what a phone operator offers me. The market is so saturated and they are all desperate for your business. They will bend over backwards to get your custom and you often get money off handset prices and free bolt on's added if you haggle in the right way. I understand abroad in some countries they are very much fixed on what they offer. I know people who approached their carriers when the iPhone 5 came out and managed to get 50 quid knocked off the handset price. It all depends who you speak to and the way in which you do it. When I am due to upgrade and say for example I want to iPhone 6 or 7, whatever it'll be called. If they offer me an upgrade price of £250 for the handset, I'll try my luck and get it for closer to £200. It can be done. At the end of the day these sales advisor's work in call centres and have targets to meet. As long as the sales sheets are balanced between customers they have figures to play around with. the iPhone doesn't have to be a silly price if you buy it in the right way.

Apple have dropped £30 in the UK, and the 16 GB is now available for £500.
The price drop may not be major in the UK or US, as they have always been Apple's strongest markets. But they have further dropped prices by £50, and even £80 in some second and third world countries to place it competitively in the same ballpark as its direct flagship competitors.
Apple haven't dropped their prices if you buy from them direct on their UK and US stores. The prices haven't dropped on pages like Phones4U, Dialaphone and Carphone Warehouse either when buying on contract. Perhaps the prices have dropped for sim free devices through third party agents, but I have to admit I don't try and keep up with pricing in that sector of the retail market. I didn't even realise Amazon sold the iPhone I have to admit, and am yet to meet anyone who has bought it outright, but agree its obviously feasible for some people. As you said, the iPhone can be had for free if you choose the right contract and are willing to pay a little more a month.

[CaptainRaiden]

I have to say Captain this is probably why I haven't been able to see your point for much of this thread. The iPhone is expensive where ever you buy it in comparison to budget models, but its always been within range of competitors flagship models, at least here. I've openly admitted several times I have no idea how the pricing works abroad with regard to the iPhone. I know when I upgraded in October, the Samsung Galaxy S3 was very similar in price to the iPhone 5, hence the confusion when I've seen it stated the iPhone is an extortionate price.

Glad the confusion has lessened somewhat. About a year or so ago, a sim free unlocked iPhone 4S was around £150 more expensive than the Galaxy S3, and hence the outrage by consumers and review websites. If you buy it locked on contract however, you won't see much of a difference. Phone companies also make more money by selling Android flagships at around the same price, as they get them for cheaper.


Another beauty about the UK mobile market is the ability to negotiate a contract. I never accept the pricing on a website or what a phone operator offers me. The market is so saturated and they are all desperate for your business. They will bend over backwards to get your custom and you often get money off handset prices and free bolt on's added if you haggle in the right way. I understand abroad in some countries they are very much fixed on what they offer. I know people who approached their carriers when the iPhone 5 came out and managed to get 50 quid knocked off the handset price. It all depends who you speak to and the way in which you do it. When I am due to upgrade and say for example I want to iPhone 6 or 7, whatever it'll be called. If they offer me an upgrade price of £250 for the handset, I'll try my luck and get it for closer to £200. It can be done. At the end of the day these sales advisor's work in call centres and have targets to meet. As long as the sales sheets are balanced between customers they have figures to play around with. the iPhone doesn't have to be a silly price if you buy it in the right way.

That is one HUGE advantage. And I know it first hand, because I did a short stint as a TL at tech support for 3 UK a couple of years ago. So, chances are that around 2004 if you were an angry 3 customer and wanted to talk to a supervisor, I would have been telling you to calm the F down over the phone. :p Not proud of that job, but I was in transition and needed some quick cash. Anyway, the girl I was dating at that time used to work in the customer retention department (female with a nice voice, go figure), and together with the sales department they had some CRAZY offers to give, but ONLY if it was difficult to retain an existing customer or acquire a new customer. In fact, with permission from their respective supervisors, they gave some crazy deals to lucky UK customers.

Try doing that in India or Romania, and you will be told to either get the contract at its set price or F*** off.

[henners88]

I still wouldn't touch 3 now even if they have got better. They are due to be the last service provider to get 4G when it becomes standard due to their frequency apparently. My brother has an iPhone on 3 and reckons they are great apart from the network coverage being almost none existent in and around Oxfordshire! Yeah fabulous lol. They are super cheap though and you can get an iPhone on a £25 a month contract with all you can eat data, minutes and texts. The others you pay more for but at least you know you get a signal.

Saying that I pay the same amount on O2 having paid I think £260 for the handset of my iPhone 5. I bought it through topcashback after an agent set up the deal for me online and got £70 cashback after 3 months. I paid £190 for the iPhone which was £10 cheaper than I paid for the Incredible S when that first came out. The HTC was on a stupidly cheap monthly tariff though so both worked out cheaper than advertised. Nobody likes paying more than they have to.

[SGWilko]

I still wouldn't touch 3 now even if they have got better. They are due to be the last service provider to get 4G when it becomes standard due to their frequency apparently. My brother has an iPhone on 3 and reckons they are great apart from the network coverage being almost none existent in and around Oxfordshire! Yeah fabulous lol. They are super cheap though and you can get an iPhone on a £25 a month contract with all you can eat data, minutes and texts. The others you pay more for but at least you know you get a signal.

Saying that I pay the same amount on O2 having paid I think £260 for the handset of my iPhone 5. I bought it through topcashback after an agent set up the deal for me online and got £70 cashback after 3 months. I paid £190 for the iPhone which was £10 cheaper than I paid for the Incredible S when that first came out. The HTC was on a stupidly cheap monthly tariff though so both worked out cheaper than advertised. Nobody likes paying more than they have to.

My S3 is on the 3 network. I also have a data SIM on 3. At home, according to speedtest.net, I get a faster down/upload speed on 3 than my Sky ADSL! It is also the only reliable data network when I am holiday on the Norfolk Broads and in Smailholm (remote area in Scottish Borders).

[henners88]

My S3 is on the 3 network. I also have a data SIM on 3. At home, according to speedtest.net, I get a faster down/upload speed on 3 than my Sky ADSL! It is also the only reliable data network when I am holiday on the Norfolk Broads and in Smailholm (remote area in Scottish Borders).
My brother gets signal in West Wales in places I can't, places that are remote. I tend to get better signal more built up area's which is confusing. I won't knock it further as I don't use it, just mentioning my experience in the past with it. I'd probably sooner go with 3 than Orange. My mate's phone bill has gone up again from £36 p/m to nearly £60! He's had a nightmare getting his money back and it seems they are about as sneaky as Sky in terms of secretly putting your bill up.

[SGWilko]

My brother gets signal in West Wales in places I can't, places that are remote. I tend to get better signal more built up area's which is confusing. I won't knock it further as I don't use it, just mentioning my experience in the past with it. I'd probably sooner go with 3 than Orange. My mate's phone bill has gone up again from £36 p/m to nearly £60! He's had a nightmare getting his money back and it seems they are about as sneaky as Sky in terms of secretly putting your bill up.

Yeah, works contract is with T-Mobile, and we've had two uplifts in this current 24mnth contract. Still by far the cheapest per connection with Blackberry mail though.

[Jag_Warrior]

RIM/Blackberry announces a surprise first quarter loss and announces that the PlayBook won't be getting the BB10 OS. (http://blogs.wsj.com/canadarealtime/2013/06/28/in-another-surprise-rim-says-it-wont-migrate-playbook-to-bb10/)

They also announced that their subscriber base shrank by 4 million, to 72 million, and that they only shipped 2.7 million of the new BB10 devices (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323873904578573162575346532.html) - at the low end of analysts' estimates. The shares (BBRY) are off about 25%/-$3.60 right now, down to $10.85 - down to $10.25 at one point. Time to try to catch a falling knife? Hmm... :confused: Since BBRY's management now says they're going to stop providing subscriber numbers going forward, probably not. They obviously see a (bad) trend coming this way.

[Koz]

I mean who the heck wants to buy the new 6.4 inch Xperia Z?? Not me! But I have already heard people considering it.

If it had a flash, I'd buy one right now.

[airshifter]

No, no, not biased at all!

And carrying a device doesn't automatically make you unbiased. There have been a lot of negative things said about Apple, Android and WP in this thread. Where have you defended the other two? But Apple, Apple is a different story.

Just to clarify, the end paragraph about bullying kids into buying iPhones was completely a joke. As I've said, I really don't care which brand people buy. As for defense of Android devices, I defended them with my wallet when I purchased mine. I'll openly admit joking on Windows phones based on my experience of Windows as an OS. But if you look I'll also mention it's simply joking and that I haven't really had any time to use Windows phones of any type. Around here it's hard to find anyone that carries a Windows phone.



I could repeat it a thousand times, but if you're really that slow, then you're not going to get it. My problem has always been Apple's pricing. Never even told anybody not to express their opinions. In fact whenever someone posted that they bought an iPhone in this thread, I have never mocked their choice or device. Others have done so. I either congratulated or stayed away. And you can quote me on this.

The bone to pick always had been with company's exorbitant prices, not the consumer. The consumer can buy whatever they like. You lot have been trying to justify those prices saying Apple is a "luxury" brand for the last two years. :laugh: This is no longer true. Apple has had to bow to market pressure, because guess what, the consumer has finally decided with their wallets. And not just millions of consumers, but phone review websites have long been criticizing Apple's pricing. The result? 1. Budget iPhone offering. 2. What was once a $200 difference on Amazon between the two major flagship devices from Apple and Samsung, is now only $50. And if the trend continues, I expect it to go even lower.

Pricing in the interest of company profit protects the share holders, and if the consumers keep paying it then Apple has made a smart move. A third the number of products sold at 3 times the profit margin is still good business sense. I've never myself considered Apple a "luxury brand". I think they use a solid OS/limited hardware model that makes their phones easy to use and easy to transition from one to another. I don't think the build quality is anything exciting. They are solid products but so are many other options.

When the thread was originally started, it was really just a thread to bash the iPad. We all see how that worked. Consumers speak with their money, and will continue to do so. I really don't think any single company will dominate the market any time soon. At times some companies will expand, but when the competition releases new tech they usually gain share once again.



You can go back a page and see which posts actually led us here. And if you don't wanna read "negative" opinions on a brand you love? Exercise your right to freedom and add me to your ignore list. Much smoother day for you I promise! :)

My point was simply that you are the pot calling the kettle black. As I've said I carry an Android device. It seems that you somehow equate that to love for Apple, but that is not the case. I've just identified what I feel are strong and weak points of the devices we own in our family. By the time I want another phone tech will have changed, so no telling what I will purchase. But I'm not going to classify anyone as "you lot" based on them openly having an opinion.

More than a few users here in the forum have made the switch from one to the other over time, and I'm sure they had their reasons for doing so. As long as it suits them..... that's all that matters.

[CaptainRaiden]

If it had a flash, I'd buy one right now.

The huge screen doesn't deter you? I draw the line at 5 inches for a smartphone screen, really. But I guess it's okay as long as you're looking for a phablet.


My point was simply that you are the pot calling the kettle black. As I've said I carry an Android device. It seems that you somehow equate that to love for Apple, but that is not the case. I've just identified what I feel are strong and weak points of the devices we own in our family. By the time I want another phone tech will have changed, so no telling what I will purchase. But I'm not going to classify anyone as "you lot" based on them openly having an opinion.

That assumption was simply based on you almost always defending Apple, and not Android. And again, if you like that brand, there's nothing wrong with that. Somebody who is unbiased wouldn't really care either way, would they?


More than a few users here in the forum have made the switch from one to the other over time, and I'm sure they had their reasons for doing so. As long as it suits them..... that's all that matters.

And? I have never had a problem with people choosing what suits them. I haven't tried to persuade anybody to choose different. I have always almost exclusively criticized Apple's pricing. Now that their pricing is similar to other flagships, I don't have a problem. Simples.

[airshifter]

That assumption was simply based on you almost always defending Apple, and not Android. And again, if you like that brand, there's nothing wrong with that. Somebody who is unbiased wouldn't really care either way, would they?


If I was an Apple fan and thought the product was best for me, I'd have one. I don't mind tweaking with the OS or other various things, so I stuck with my Android device. And as far as Android devices, I can only speak for the device I have, since they all vary so much in specs and ability to live with certain software. For me passing on second hand information isn't really very worthy, so I refrain from doing so.

And once again, this lack of hardware choice is IMO something that gives Apple an advantage in software development. They only have to develop for a limited number of devices, where with Android or WP they have to develop for a lot of choices from a lot of companies.

[BleAivano]

If I was an Apple fan and thought the product was best for me, I'd have one. I don't mind tweaking with the OS or other various things, so I stuck with my Android device. And as far as Android devices, I can only speak for the device I have, since they all vary so much in specs and ability to live with certain software. For me passing on second hand information isn't really very worthy, so I refrain from doing so.

And once again, this lack of hardware choice is IMO something that gives Apple an advantage in software development. They only have to develop for a limited number of devices, where with Android or WP they have to develop for a lot of choices from a lot of companies.

I don't think I can agree with that its just an advantage as it can be a disadvantage as well. Its a bit like A computer vs. game consoles like XB or PS.

The Computer have much larger variances in hardware/software but it usually also allows for more the development of more powerful/advanced applications/software.
While the developers for XB/PS have basically just on set of specs (per console) to develop to but they are on the other hand much more restricted regarding
how advanced/powerful applications they can handle.

In a way its about the same with Iphone vs. Android. IPhones have much smaller variances in hardware then android phones
but the newest high end Android phones with faster cpu. more ram and larger screen allows for more advanced software.