Mobile phones & tablets thread [Archive] - Page 5

Jag_Warrior

20th September 2011, 21:08

Haha worth every penny by the sounds of things Jag.. ;)
As ioan says it depends on the woman and his girlfriend would laugh at him it seems. Fair enough, but my wife is the type of woman who enjoys having the best accessories and the iphone is the most desired phone of the moment. Theres very little to ridicule it as far as I am aware apart from how expensive it is. :)

Yes sir! A happy girlfriend makes for a happy boyfriend. I don't know much when it comes to women. But I've learned that much over the years. :D

In part because of what I do, I appreciate quality and efficient design engineering. Last I read, the iPhone had a return rate of about 1.5%, while some Android devices had return rates approaching 50%. That's not a knock on the Android software. But it is to say that without some amount of control over the OEM's, you end up with any manner of fly-by-night ma & pa producers churning out junk with your software on it. In the eyes of the consumer, that alone can make you look bad - and it may not even be your fault. Microsoft has had that very issue over the years with the Windows OS's - although quite often, it was the software. But neither Apple nor any other software/hardware OEM produces products which are 100% defect free. That's an unrealistic expectation. In the world of manufacturing, there is simply no such thing! So when I read complaints on here about how "if Macs are so great, how come I know someone who has one that broke?"... I have no choice but to roll my eyes. There is no such thing as "defect free". Even at a Six Sigma level, a process will yield 3.4 defects per million opportunities. But like I said, I do appreciate OEM's (cars, computers, watches... whatever) that employ effective defect reduction and defect prevention methodologies. And Apple does that extremely well... both in my opinion and by actual data. But people should buy what they need and what they want.

As for myself, I don't have the time or patience for foolishness. So I don't mind paying for quality.

Apple tops customer satisfaction index once again (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/apple-tops-customer-satisfaction-index-once-again/14890)

http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/20-09-2011-15-17-21.png

Daniel

21st September 2011, 19:42

This kind of sums up my main reason for finding the iPad a bit pointless. Please not this site is generally very pro-Apple and the guy obviously likes his Apple products.....

iPad for sale
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/09/joe-ipad-irl-9-16-250-x-300.jpgOh, iPad 2 with AT&T 3G. I remember the day it was announced. I rushed to my computer in the early morning hours to ensure I'd be one of the first to wrap my hands around one. Looking back I can't help but wonder, Why? I knew a tablet wouldn't be the best for productivity (http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/21/editorial-tablets-arent-the-third-device-id-hoped-for-fr/), but I was curious about filling that void bewtixt my 15-inch MacBook Pro and my iPhone. Plus, with 3G connectivity, I figured I'd finally have a simple device for surfing the web or watching Netflix while in transit.

After receiving it a few weeks later and installing some apps, I was having a grand ol' time using my giant iPod touch (and yes, I mean that). Then, I noticed my luck had afforded me the dreaded "screen bleed (http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/12/poll-is-your-ipad-2-backlight-bleeding-video/)." After weeks of frustrating calls and two repairs, I was back in gear with an evenly lit screen. So, I continued on grabbing some gaming, magazine, music and movie apps that I still haven't used more than a handful of times.

Maybe it's just that I'm too set on using on full OS, but using the iPad for me is like pulling teeth. The simple tasking of switching from a webpage to another app is tiring after a few circles and better suited to a full OS. And that's the problem, really. I need a device to do more than one thing at a time and switch between tasks on a dime, and the iPad just doesn't cut it. The 11-inch MacBook Air I've recently acquired (http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/26/irl-the-stuff-engadget-editors-are-using-in-real-life/) has fit my needs perfectly, and since I bought it my iPad's been accumulating more dust. Seems like it might be time to give up on the slate for now, maybe even sell it. Plus, it's not like the Smart Cover was that smart anyway; all it ever did was collect dirt... (Kidding! Kind of.)

IRL: WildBlue satellite internet, international charging, a flashing habit and failing to get work done on an iPad -- Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/21/irl-wildblue-satellite-internet-international-charging-a-flas/)

Daniel

22nd September 2011, 09:31

I know a fair few people with ipads and can see why they are desirable in comparison to a laptop. I know work colleagues who sit on their lunchbreaks with their ipad rested on their knee and they are convenient. They are good for keeping photo's on and using as a media device for surfing the internet, and playing app based games on. Of course if you are like me and you have your laptop on most nights and edit alot of photo's on Photoshop and Lightroom, its not the best form of device but I can see the appeal for general use.

Thing is, a phone is still a lot more useful in that situation, sure the screen isn't quite so big, but personally I just don't get the point in carrying something so big that duplicates the functionality of a device that pretty much everyone has. I mean does anyone carry a netbook AND a laptop around with them? :mark:

Daniel

22nd September 2011, 11:06

The problem with phones is the poor battery life in comparison when you are surfing the internet and the smaller screen that isn't as nice to use. I use the internet on my phone but its nowhere near as good as using a larger device IMO. I tend to use it as a quick reference rather than for fun. The ipad is small enough to slip into a backpack or briefcase and is responsive with a battery life of around 20 hours. The ipad does have a larger screen than an iphone but is still a small device and smaller than most netbooks. I think there is alot going for them and with more apps being developed purely for the larger screen, a whole new market is being created for such devices. As I have said I have no real use for an ipad and see it as a purely luxury item but I can see the appeal of people who like Apple products and want a device for apps and general use.

I get what you're saying :) But who doesn't take a USB cable into work to charge their phone? If you've got a hardarse IT administrator you can even buy one of these -> Scan CDL-02POWER 20cm USB Power Only Cable - Scan.co.uk (http://www.scan.co.uk/products/20cm-scan-usb-power-only-cable-a-male-to-a-female-black-with-red-hoods?utm_source=google+shopping&utm_medium=google+shopping) and you can charge your phone and they know your device won't be connected to your PC or laptop in terms of data.

I think like you say it's a luxury device though and for that reason, I'm oot. If someone makes a decent tablet that is convertible (ie it can be used as a laptop) and has a dock then I'll buy, but I just don't see the point of having 3 devices when 2 will do.

CaptainRaiden

22nd September 2011, 14:01

You can't use the iPad as a practical phone, so - Fail.
You can't use it as a laptop - Fail.
You can't use it as a book reader, because it's too expensive, heavy and the battery life is crap - More Fail.

So conclusion = Epic Fail.

I've long maintained that it's nothing but an expensive toy for people gullible enough to fall for it. Now they introduced a keyboard dock for it, because typing is a pain in the ass on the iPad. :laugh: So, why not just buy a high performing laptop for that price??!?! :crazy:

Hell, if I had that much money lying around, and I really wanted to waste it, I'd buy one of the new 4 GB DirectX 11 graphic cards for my PC. MUCH better investment.

CaptainRaiden

22nd September 2011, 14:11

I found this pic quite amusing:

What the iPad really is: :p

http://knowyourmeme.com/i/000/037/998/original/60678949.jpg?1264752013

Koz

22nd September 2011, 14:28

Hum, seems the Samsung Galaxy S3 specs have been leaked... (there are various links on google, I won't bother to post one).

I say it looks like a typical 4chan BS.

including a Quad-core 2.0GHZ processor, 1.5GB of RAM and a 10 MP camera capable of 1080P at 60 fps. It will house this technological-lunacy in a 9mm thick body, be powered by a 2,250mAh and be NFC ready.

Most interesting of all, it will have a 4.65" Super AMOLED display with a resolution of 1280x1024, giving it the highest pixel density of any smartphone so far, and an unusual 5:4 display.

I highly doubt any of that is true.

Daniel

22nd September 2011, 14:33

I suppose the ipad is similar in purpose to a Netbook as its really a mini internet surfer that uses applications that are not transferred via disk. I know Netbooks have the advantage of USB connections but big deal, for 50 quid more you can buy a laptop. I personally don't take a USB cable into work to charge my phone even though I sit at a desk for the majority of the day. My phone starts to lose battery later in the evening when I am at home anyway so there is no need. I get about a day and a bit out of my battery which is pretty crap in comparison to the iphone 4 which tends to get around 2 days. Myself and the wife found this out when we went to a festival back in the summer and my phone died by the following morning of being there and hers lasted the whole three days with limited use.

You should buy yourself a micro USB cable for work :) I've got one for work and I never run out of power.

There are ways of minimising your battery use and I think a lot of battery use is down to how people have their phone configured. Not having owned an iPhone I couldn't honestly say whether it's better than my phone in terms of battery life, but if I switch my bluetooth and WLAN off and only have 3g on when I actually need it my phone will last for a good few days. In reality because I've got a USB cable here at work and I've set my phone up to work off the WLAN, I keep everything on and if it weren't plugged in it'd only last the day.

CaptainRaiden

22nd September 2011, 14:33

I still wouldn't justify 300 quid for an ipad 2 but I must admit they are pleasant to use when they are someone elses lol. :)

^ This. I can play around with an iPad all day long if it's for demo at a mall or belongs to someone else, but would never shell out that much money for a fancy toy. :p

And I think you got the battery life of Kindle quite wrong. With the Wi-fi off, it can go up to a week easily, and goes even further on the newer models, which I haven't checked up on.

Daniel

22nd September 2011, 14:34

Hum, seems the Samsung Galaxy S3 specs have been leaked... (there are various links on google, I won't bother to post one).

I say it looks like a typical 4chan BS.

I highly doubt any of that is true.
I tend to agree

Daniel

22nd September 2011, 14:39

I must admit from personal experience of using an ipad its not heavy in the least and the battery life is better than any portable device I have seen. Getting 10 hours life watching videos I would say is rather good and up to 18 hours with general use. Every laptop I have owned has a 3 hour max life and I think battery life is one of the ipads unique selling points at this moment in time. If you say its poor when being used as a 'Book Reader' then surely this must be compared with the Kindle for this purpose. The Kindle has a battery life of around 4 hours if you are lucky and this is one of their biggest complaints. I still wouldn't justify 300 quid for an ipad 2 but I must admit they are pleasant to use when they are someone elses lol. :)

Whoooooooa!!!! The kindle's battery life is measured in weeks. Caroline has one and she charges it so infrequently that when she needs to charge it she has to ask me where the USB cable for it is as she uses it so infrequently. As a book reader the kindle absolutely blows the iPad away. It whoops the Kindle in terms of battery life, weight, readability and pretty much everything. It really is a case of the iPad being a tablet which doubles as a book reader and the Kindle being a dedicated e-reader.

Whilst the iPad is not heavy, IMHO it's a weighty device which I'd rather not carry around with me every day and which I'd find tiring to use for any length of time.

Daniel

22nd September 2011, 14:40

You can't use the iPad as a practical phone, so - Fail.
You can't use it as a laptop - Fail.
You can't use it as a book reader, because it's too expensive, heavy and the battery life is crap - More Fail.

So conclusion = Epic Fail.

I've long maintained that it's nothing but an expensive toy for people gullible enough to fall for it. Now they introduced a keyboard dock for it, because typing is a pain in the ass on the iPad. :laugh: So, why not just buy a high performing laptop for that price??!?! :crazy:

Hell, if I had that much money lying around, and I really wanted to waste it, I'd buy one of the new 4 GB DirectX 11 graphic cards for my PC. MUCH better investment.

SSD is a better investment :D

ArrowsFA1

22nd September 2011, 14:48

You can't use the iPad as a practical phone, so - Fail.
You can't use it as a laptop - Fail.
You can't use it as a book reader, because it's too expensive, heavy and the battery life is crap - More Fail.

So conclusion = Epic Fail.

The iPad is a luxury item. You don't need it. If you don't want one don't buy one![/*:m:bhh8uvjm]
During 2010, Apple sold 15 million iPads worldwide[/*:m:bhh8uvjm]
A lot of people own one[/*:m:bhh8uvjm]
The iPad is not a phone[/*:m:bhh8uvjm]
It can be used for online calls via Skype & Face-Time[/*:m:bhh8uvjm]
The iPad is not a laptop.[/*:m:bhh8uvjm]
There are apps that make it a very effective and useful office device[/*:m:bhh8uvjm]
You can use it as a book reader, but (IMHO) the Kindle does the job better[/*:m:bhh8uvjm]
The iPad keyboard is fine to use. Buying an external one is optional[/*:m:bhh8uvjm]There's no "epic fail" about the iPad IMHO. Before owning one (yes, I own one so am clearly biased :p ) I thought they were pointless, and replicted much of what the iPhone does. Of course it does, it's based on the same well established principles but it is much more than an iPhone foursquared!!!

It doesn't do things that other devices don't do, but it does them in one conveniently portable device, and it does them very well. I can work (handwrting apps are a joy, and office documents open & save easily) on an iPad, play games, watch tv & films, listen to music, check emai, have a digital radio alarm clock and far more all in one place.

I like it. Maybe I've fallen for the hype. Paid over the odds. Don't really care. What the iPad does it does very well, and it works for me :s mokin:

Daniel

22nd September 2011, 15:18

The iPad is a luxury item. You don't need it. If you don't want one don't buy one![/*:m:36unxtyt]
During 2010, Apple sold 15 million iPads worldwide[/*:m:36unxtyt]
A lot of people own one[/*:m:36unxtyt]
The iPad is not a phone[/*:m:36unxtyt]
It can be used for online calls via Skype & Face-Time[/*:m:36unxtyt]
The iPad is not a laptop.[/*:m:36unxtyt]
There are apps that make it a very effective and useful office device[/*:m:36unxtyt]
You can use it as a book reader, but (IMHO) the Kindle does the job better[/*:m:36unxtyt]
The iPad keyboard is fine to use. Buying an external one is optional[/*:m:36unxtyt]

1) You're right
2) There are always people happy to be seperated from their money ;)
3) A lot of people in Germany during WW2 thought Hitler was a smashing chap
4) Of course, it's basically a big iPhone without the actual phone capability (aside from Facetime/Skype)
5) Of course
6) Of course, but if we drew a venn diagram of the iPad's usability and function, a lot, if not all of the area the iPad occupies would be covered by a phone and a laptop/netbook and phones are more portable and laptops/netbooks more functional and useable for certain things like typing.
7) Which is still not as useful as a laptop.
8) Definitely.
9) It might be fine to use, but a hardware keyboard will always be better to use.

Koz

22nd September 2011, 15:52

It doesn't do things that other devices don't do, but it does them in one conveniently portable device, and it does them very well. I can work (handwrting apps are a joy, and office documents open & save easily) on an iPad, play games, watch tv & films, listen to music, check emai, have a digital radio alarm clock and far more all in one place.:

That's the problem, isn't it?
It does nothing that your iPhone does not do.
(IIRC, I could do most of that my old HTC Harrier - wait for it - 8 years ago!!! And it cost me 80$)

:)

Handwriting apps, how well do they work? How accurate would you rate the OCR?

What kind of stylus do you use? I have seen a few and they look absolutely dreadful, I couldn't see myself using one of them.

CaptainRaiden

22nd September 2011, 16:00

The iPad is a luxury item. You don't need it. If you don't want one don't buy one![/*:m:1fg8ex00]
During 2010, Apple sold 15 million iPads worldwide[/*:m:1fg8ex00]
A lot of people own one[/*:m:1fg8ex00]
The iPad is not a phone[/*:m:1fg8ex00]
It can be used for online calls via Skype & Face-Time[/*:m:1fg8ex00]
The iPad is not a laptop.[/*:m:1fg8ex00]
There are apps that make it a very effective and useful office device[/*:m:1fg8ex00]
You can use it as a book reader, but (IMHO) the Kindle does the job better[/*:m:1fg8ex00]
The iPad keyboard is fine to use. Buying an external one is optional[/*:m:1fg8ex00]There's no "epic fail" about the iPad IMHO. Before owning one (yes, I own one so am clearly biased :p ) I thought they were pointless, and replicted much of what the iPhone does. Of course it does, it's based on the same well established principles but it is much more than an iPhone foursquared!!!

It doesn't do things that other devices don't do, but it does them in one conveniently portable device, and it does them very well. I can work (handwrting apps are a joy, and office documents open & save easily) on an iPad, play games, watch tv & films, listen to music, check emai, have a digital radio alarm clock and far more all in one place.

I like it. Maybe I've fallen for the hype. Paid over the odds. Don't really care. What the iPad does it does very well, and it works for me :s mokin:

I'm not very big on pointless luxury items, so it doesn't appeal to me AT ALL. However, if people like it, I may not understand why, but I don't have a problem with that. I personally wouldn't waste my money on an iPad....EVER.

If I wanna take calls, receive SMS', get all my business and personal emails on one device, or play Angry Birds while on the pooper, my Samsung Galaxy S does the trick, and fits in my pocket too. ;)

My work requires me using lots of software from the Adobe Suite, which my laptop handles quite efficiently. And the kind of hardware those softwares require, won't be on the iPad for a long time. I also have to type long ass business emails, for which using the on-screen iPad qwerty crap would be a pain in the ass.

If I had 400 GBP lying around, I'd invest it, like I said, in one of the new DX11 graphic cards and smoke the panties off of any PC out there OR I'd probably buy an SSD, then probably one of the new HD or a 3D projectors and paint my wall white OR a Samsung Galaxy S2. AND after all of this, if the green would still be troubling my pockets, MAYBE buy an iPad, but I'd think about it very hard before doing it. :p

CaptainRaiden

22nd September 2011, 16:06

SSD is a better investment :D

Screw SSDs! I'll wait until they get cheaper. :p

Meanwhile:

AMD Radeon HD 6990 Graphics (http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/amd-radeon-hd-6000/hd-6990/Pages/amd-radeon-hd-6990-overview.aspx)

4 GB DDR5 2X256-bit - 5000 Mhz - Supports up to 6 displays. Fastest card in the world. Gaming insurance for the next 10 years.

*DROOL* :eek: :crazy:

Daniel

22nd September 2011, 16:15

Screw SSDs! I'll wait until they get cheaper. :p

Meanwhile:

AMD Radeon HD 6990 Graphics (http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/amd-radeon-hd-6000/hd-6990/Pages/amd-radeon-hd-6990-overview.aspx)

4 GB DDR5 2X256-bit - 5000 Mhz - Supports up to 6 displays. Fastest card in the world. Gaming insurance for the next 10 years.

*DROOL* :eek: :crazy:

I'd love one, but the power bill would be horrendous ;) I've only got an 850 watt PSU as well :p

ArrowsFA1

22nd September 2011, 16:15

That's the problem, isn't it?
It does nothing that your iPhone does not do.
(IIRC, I could do most of that my old HTC Harrier - wait for it - 8 years ago!!! And it cost me 80$)

:)
Well, I wouldn't want to sit and watch a 2hr 50m film (Grand Prix (http://www.imdb.com/find?s=all&q=grand+prix)...still a cracker!!) on my phone, that's for sure.

Handwriting apps, how well do they work? How accurate would you rate the OCR?

What kind of stylus do you use? I have seen a few and they look absolutely dreadful, I couldn't see myself using one of them.
I use a boxwave (http://www.amazon.co.uk/BoxWave-Capacitive-iPad-Stylus-Black/dp/B000BUI76S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316704325&sr=8-1) stylus with the Notes Plus (http://notesplusapp.com/) app and can replicate my handwriting perfectly well so no problems with the OCR.

Daniel

22nd September 2011, 16:22

That's the problem, isn't it?
It does nothing that your iPhone does not do.
(IIRC, I could do most of that my old HTC Harrier - wait for it - 8 years ago!!! And it cost me 80$)

:)

Handwriting apps, how well do they work? How accurate would you rate the OCR?

What kind of stylus do you use? I have seen a few and they look absolutely dreadful, I couldn't see myself using one of them.

Exactly. Even if the OCR is good, typing with a keyboard is still craploads better. Apple have a talent for polishing things, but sometimes you can only polish a non-ideal situation so much. If you were going to handwrite a long letter to someone you wouldn't do it on a clipboard standing up would you? You'd do it on a desk. To me the iPad is like a really good clipboard, it does its thing really well, but the form factor simply doesn't lend itself that well to anything other than light use. You can do heavier stuff on it, but you're almost always going to be better off with a netbook or a laptop.

Daniel

22nd September 2011, 16:24

Well, I wouldn't want to sit and watch a 2hr 50m film (Grand Prix (http://www.imdb.com/find?s=all&q=grand+prix)...still a cracker!!) on my phone, that's for sure.
Surely though, watching said movie on a TV would be a better idea and if you're going to be watching something for almost 3 hours I assume you're on a train or a plane, then a laptop would do the job also? A lot of people in the comments section (as well as the author) mentioned that they'd traded their iPad's in for Macbook Air's which were far better.

ArrowsFA1

22nd September 2011, 16:56

Surely though, watching said movie on a TV would be a better idea and if you're going to be watching something for almost 3 hours I assume you're on a train or a plane, then a laptop would do the job also?
My point about waching the film was in response to Koz's claim that the iPad "does nothing that your iPhone does not do".

I don't disagree that you can watch films on a laptop but I wouldn't watch a 3hr film on my phone.

Daniel

22nd September 2011, 18:01

I don't say to my wife, "why are you buying that skirt here when you can get one in Primark that does the same job", because it is all down to personal taste and if someone is happy with a product I don't see a reason to dismiss it.

Bollocks! You don't say that to your wife because you know you'll get your nuts ripped off ;) :p : :D

Mark

22nd September 2011, 19:01

Daniel has violated Godwins Law so is from now on automatically wrong.

Koz

23rd September 2011, 09:45

I use a boxwave (http://www.amazon.co.uk/BoxWave-Capacitive-iPad-Stylus-Black/dp/B000BUI76S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316704325&sr=8-1) stylus with the Notes Plus (http://notesplusapp.com/) app and can replicate my handwriting perfectly well so no problems with the OCR.

No OCR = not note taking/handwriting...

That, to me, looks like a drawing app. The point would be for that to understand and process my handwriting...
This is something that the HTC Harrier did 8-odd years, not very well mind you, but it did in fact do it.

My point about waching the film was in response to Koz's claim that the iPad "does nothing that your iPhone does not do".

Exactly, the screen is bigger, but the functionality is the same (if not less).

Koz

23rd September 2011, 09:46

I am looking at getting an Xperia ARC, anyone here have it? If so, any thought and/or concerns?

CaptainRaiden

23rd September 2011, 09:52

I am looking at getting an Xperia ARC, anyone here have it? If so, any thought and/or concerns?

Some of my friends haven't had good experiences with Xperias in general. I think 3 of my buddies had it, neither of them was really happy. They had issues with the battery, choppy video playback, random shutdowns etc.

Then there's also this:

Xperia arc users report cracks issue - The Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2111312/xperia-arc-users-report-cracks-issue)

GridGirl

23rd September 2011, 10:03

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 10:23

I am looking at getting an Xperia ARC, anyone here have it? If so, any thought and/or concerns?

I can't stress enough how much you should look at a Windows Phone 7 handset :)

HTC have announced the Titan and Radar which run Windows Phone 7.5 as standard, Samsung have announced a couple of phones too and of course Nokia's phones are due to hit later this year. Apparently Mango transforms an already good OS into a fantastic one. It addresses most of the big issues, especially multitasking which really does hobble my phone in terms of useability.

I know a lot of people don't seem to like Wp7 on here having tried it for short bursts, but any OS that you don't know seems crap until you understand how it works. I was a Nokia person until this phone and whenever I had to use a Sony Ericsson or a Motorola or whatever I was totally lost. Just like I'm lost if I have to use an iPhone.

In other news, Microsoft announced a couple of days ago that Mango will start to be pushed out in about a week or a week and a half. The RTM ROM's have been leaked and I could just flash my phone, but I'll wait for it to come out to me properly.

Again, WP7 is not about apps as iOS seems to be, you've got fantastic things like Bing Vision and Bing Audio (like Shazaam) which are inbuilt and which can talk to the marketplace or for instance an Amazon app. So you walk into a CD store, see a CD that you want, use Bing Vision and you can order it straight from Amazon or if you were somewhere and you heard a song you could get Bing Audio to identify it and then go to the marketplace and buy and download it there and then. Whilst I understand where Henners and Dave are coming from with widgets and how you can configure things a bit more with Android, I think WP7.5 has a lot of plus points.

rBNPimlwDNk

ArrowsFA1

23rd September 2011, 10:24

That, to me, looks like a drawing app. The point would be for that to understand and process my handwriting...
It may look like a drawing app, and you can certainly draw away to you heart's content if that's what you want to do, but as someone who uses it I know I can write notes, which is particularly useful at meetings, which the app will also record.

Exactly, the screen is bigger, but the functionality is the same (if not less).
The two things operate in a similar way e.g. apps & operating system, but that does not make their functionality the same. If they were the same then I'd be watching Grand Prix on my phone :D

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 10:32

GridGirl

23rd September 2011, 11:24

An IPad doesn't have a DVD drive but you know that already and quite fancied a b*tchy comment! Boring! My point was was actually that an IPad would allow me to watch films and tv series that we have already downloaded on iTunes much more easily than trying to prat about trying to get something to work on my heavily locked down work lap top if I was working away from home. It wouldn't take long to put whatever I wanted to watch, play or listen on an IPad. I think it would be far easier than travelling with two laptops.

CaptainRaiden

23rd September 2011, 11:25

I was quite sceptical of the IPad but I think that I'd actually quite like one now. I have a job where work is quite ad-hoc and may involve travel and staying away. My work laptop heavily locked by down by our London based IT department and it doesn't even have a disc drive to watch DVD's. For periods where I might be staying away I think an iPad would actually be quite a good entertainment device. This doesn't mean I'm planning on rushing out to buy one but next time that I might have a prolonged period away from home I think I'd definitely be thinking about buying one.

Just as a comparison for you to see what you get for your money in terms of hardware.

iPad 2 - 64 GB - best you can get: 604 GBP
Hardware Specs:
CPU: 1 GHz dual-core (underclocked to 800Mhz) Apple A5
Storage capacity - Flash memory - 16 GB, 32 GB, or 64 GB[1]
Memory 512 MB DDR2 RAM

Now for the same money the specs in a laptop that you can get:

Any of the new Dell Inspiron laptops - In the 500 to 550 GBP range
Hardware Specs:
CPU: New gen Intel 3 Ghz Dual Core or 2.2 Ghz QUAD core processors (That's double or triple of what Apple is offering for the same price)
Storage Capacity - Starting at 640 GB up to 1.2 Terabytes (That's 10 times of what Apple is offering for the same price)
Memory - 4 GB DDR3 RAM Easily (That's 8 times of what Apple is offering in the iPad for the same price, and better RAM)
AND a DVD drive

The ONLY advantage, touch screen? Meh.... -- Add to that, thousands of applications and games that Apple can't match right now. Big money wastage to go for an iPad 2 IMO.

As for battery life, Dell is now coming up with battery life up to 12 hours, and probably even more if you use Dell Extended Battery Life thingy.

Dell Adds 12 Hour Battery Life, New Intel CPUs To Vostro 3000 Notebooks - HotHardware (http://hothardware.com/News/Dell-Adds-12-Hour-Battery-Life-New-Intel-CPUs-To-Vostro-3000-Notebooks/)

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 11:28

It may look like a drawing app, and you can certainly draw away to you heart's content if that's what you want to do, but as someone who uses it I know I can write notes, which is particularly useful at meetings, which the app will also record.

Whilst that's impressive and I'm sure it works well, do you not think that you could probably write notes far quicker on a laptop?

I guess I'm probably an odd person in that I'm not really a gadget person, some people have always wanted that "computer in your hand" thing and I've never really got it. The form factor of a laptop or a desktop is just so condusive to productivity and to precision. I post on another forum where iPad use is rather common and although the autocorrect function is quite good, there are still a lot of spelling mistakes, a lot of wrong words substituted by autocorrect and a lot of people accidently clicking dislike or like or thanks for comments. I think a lot of people are simply impressed by how much technology Apple can cram into such a tiny little rectangle and I agree it is quite a device, but are you actually any worse off just using your phone and laptop?

CaptainRaiden

23rd September 2011, 11:28

I can't stress enough how much you should look at a Windows Phone 7 handset :)

Please don't listen to Daniel, anyone. Windows Phone 7 sucks, (Bing, really?? ) it's better to stick to Android. :p

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 11:33

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 11:34

Please don't listen to Daniel, anyone. Windows Phone 7 sucks, (Bing, really?? ) it's better to stick to Android. :p

Bing is fine on Wp7, the only issue is they don't do am image search. But of course you can just go to google anyway which I often do :)

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 11:39

Just as a comparison for you to see what you get for your money in terms of hardware.

Now for the same money the specs in a laptop that you can get:

The ONLY advantage, touch screen? Meh.... -- Add to that, thousands of applications and games that Apple can't match right now. Big money wastage to go for an iPad 2 IMO.

As for battery life, Dell is now coming up with battery life up to 12 hours, and probably even more if you use Dell Extended Battery Life thingy.

Dell Adds 12 Hour Battery Life, New Intel CPUs To Vostro 3000 Notebooks - HotHardware (http://hothardware.com/News/Dell-Adds-12-Hour-Battery-Life-New-Intel-CPUs-To-Vostro-3000-Notebooks/)

Why would someone want to save £100 or so and have a device that is far more functional?!?!?!?! What are you smoking man! :p Plus you won't look really cool whilst using a laptop.

EDIT: A funny thing I've noticed in the UK is that people seem to delight in being able to say they spent more than they needed as if it's some sort of status symbol. Person X spends £200 on something and person Y spends £300 and didn't have to rub shoulders with riff raff or shop around. Look at me! I've got more money (and less sense) than you! :p

GridGirl

23rd September 2011, 11:53

Wow you're good!!!!!!!

Speaking as an IT person, your laptop is a tool which you're not meant to be using to play DVD's install hello kitty desktop themes and so on and so forth on.

Indeed, which only reiterates my point that an IPad might actually be quite useful but as so called IT person you can't seem to grasp that idea.

ArrowsFA1

23rd September 2011, 11:56

Whilst that's impressive and I'm sure it works well, do you not think that you could probably write notes far quicker on a laptop?
No, I don't see how I could write any quicker with a laptop, or a pen for that matter. The iPad, app & stylus do the job perfectly well and are less obtrusive at the table.

For me the iPad is more functional than a laptop.

If you want to stick all sorts of labels on me for making that choice that's entirely up to you.

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 11:58

Indeed, which only reiterates my point that an IPad might actually be quite useful but as so called IT person you can't seem to grasp!

I think what you fail to grasp as a know it all user is that a laptop is cheaper and provides a lot more functionality. But then again you know everything :)

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 11:59

No, I don't see how I could write any quicker with a laptop, or a pen for that matter. The iPad, app & stylus do the job perfectly well and are less obtrusive at the table.

For me the iPad is more functional than a laptop.

If you want to stick all sorts of labels on me for making that choice that's entirely up to you.

I'm not trying to label you or anything :) Can you really write faster than you can type? I would say the vast majority of people can type far faster than they can write.

ArrowsFA1

23rd September 2011, 12:19

I'm not trying to label you or anything.

A funny thing I've noticed in the UK is that people seem to delight in being able to say they spent more than they needed as if it's some sort of status symbol. Person X spends £200 on something and person Y spends £300 and didn't have to rub shoulders with riff raff or shop around. Look at me! I've got more money (and less sense) than you! :p

Can you really write faster than you can type? I would say the vast majority of people can type far faster than they can write.
Daniel, you're making the classic mistake of "salesman" who thinks he knows better than "the customer" what they want. I've already said the iPad, app & stylus do the job perfectly well for me.

Koz

23rd September 2011, 12:26

Some of my friends haven't had good experiences with Xperias in general. I think 3 of my buddies had it, neither of them was really happy. They had issues with the battery, choppy video playback, random shutdowns etc.

Then there's also this:

Xperia arc users report cracks issue - The Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2111312/xperia-arc-users-report-cracks-issue)

That's a shame. It's a very good looking phone, perhaps the best.

Daniel: I an not sure about Windows Phone, but I will look into it.

It may look like a drawing app, and you can certainly draw away to you heart's content if that's what you want to do, but as someone who uses it I know I can write notes, which is particularly useful at meetings, which the app will also record.
But that's the issue, at least for me. If the "writing" isn't OCR-able, if it can't be indexed and searched word for word, then it's a fail in my book.

IIRC, there is OneNote for IOS, it might have handwriting recognition.

The two things operate in a similar way e.g. apps & operating system, but that does not make their functionality the same.
Same UI, same apps, same processor... What exactly is different other than the screen size??

What is the difference between a 13" laptop and a 17" laptop? Does the smaller size of the former make it fundamentally different from the latter?

I was quite sceptical of the IPad but I think that I'd actually quite like one now. I have a job where work is quite ad-hoc and may involve travel and staying away. My work laptop heavily locked by down by our London based IT department and it doesn't even have a disc drive to watch DVD's. For periods where I might be staying away I think an iPad would actually be quite a good entertainment device. This doesn't mean I'm planning on rushing out to buy one but next time that I might have a prolonged period away from home I think I'd definitely be thinking about buying one.

Save yourself some money, download a Linux live CD, get it onto a usb-stick and boot to that when you want to do naughty things on your company laptop. :)
And/or buy an external dvd/blu-ray drive.

CaptainRaiden

23rd September 2011, 12:32

The ipad is a nice gadget that provides the user with enjoyment and something abit different to a laptop. "Nerd Alert" sirens might be ringing that it hasn't got as much hardware as a standard laptop but its a different user experience altogether.

I don't have a problem with the iPad being a nice little toy for technologically-challenged people. The problem I have is, why should I pay the same amount or MORE for something with which I can do MUCH, MUCH lesser? I mean for 600 GBP you get a 64 GB capacity iPad, which is a robbery! It may sound nerdy to you, but I'm not really into getting shortchanged by Apple just to look "cool" in some circles. :p

For example, for 600 GBP, I can get an amazingly amazing top of the line gaming laptop, which can play full HD 1080p or even 3D movies if I connect it to my 42 inch TV via an HDMI cable or even wirelessly these days. Or I can connect it to a HD projector and play a full HD movie on my white wall. I can connect an Xbox-360 controller to it via USB and play PC games on the TV while on the couch or the bed. With the new 12 hour batteries coming out, I can play HD movies and play games like F1 2011 or Assassin's Creed in full detail while in a train or a bus or a plane. The whole Adobe Suite with Photoshop, Premiere, Dreamweaver, which are essential to my work, are handled effortlessly by this little piece of device. I can store hundreds of HD movies or games on the 1.2 terabyte hard drive, and don't have to compromise on anything.

Can the iPad do all of this? Sure, it can play 720p videos on its dinky screen, but so can the Samsung Galaxy S, which costs half its price. If you wanna pay more than half a grand for a limited functionality toy, then be my guest. It's not my money you're wasting. :p

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 12:39

Daniel, you're making the classic mistake of "salesman" who thinks he knows better than "the customer" what they want. I've already said the iPad, app & stylus do the job perfectly well for me.

That statement wan't directed at you specifically, it was general statement :)

The point I was trying to make about typing on a keyboard is that most people can type a helluva lot more quickly and accurately with a keyboard than they can write on a tablet. Surely for note taking speed is of the essence as the slow you are the less detail you can put in.

I'm not trying to say that an iPad doesn't work for you, it clearly does and for for me to say otherwise would be rather rude.

My point is that whilst something might do the job, sometimes there are better tools for the job :)

ArrowsFA1

23rd September 2011, 12:42

That statement wan't directed at you specifically, it was general statement :)
Of course :s mokin:

I don't have a problem with the iPad being a nice little toy for technologically-challenged people.
Nor do I have a problem with the laptop being a nice little toy for technologically-geeky people.

(See, we can all do it :p )

Malbec

23rd September 2011, 12:44

Why would someone want to save £100 or so and have a device that is far more functional?!?!?!?! What are you smoking man! :p Plus you won't look really cool whilst using a laptop.

EDIT: A funny thing I've noticed in the UK is that people seem to delight in being able to say they spent more than they needed as if it's some sort of status symbol. Person X spends £200 on something and person Y spends £300 and didn't have to rub shoulders with riff raff or shop around. Look at me! I've got more money (and less sense) than you! :p

A funny thing I've noticed on this forum is that some guys don't understand that people have needs that go beyond having the best spec possible for the price.

Personally when it comes to meetings I'm a fountain pen and paper man. Electronic stuff merely gets in the way especially when you already have reams of minutes of previous meetings, agenda and various summaries to wade through already. A laptop in such a situation is laughable and merely an annoyance especially given how slow they can be to start up.

Arrows' comment about using a drawing app to take notes on is appealing for me even if there is no writing recognition going on, because a tablet in such a situation could actually be handy and replace my easily lost scraps of paper.

Daniel, you keep going on at people who have iPads claiming that other options could perform some other tasks better. I'm sure you're right on paper, unfortunately people don't live their lives on paper.

CaptainRaiden

23rd September 2011, 12:46

EDIT: A funny thing I've noticed in the UK is that people seem to delight in being able to say they spent more than they needed as if it's some sort of status symbol. Person X spends £200 on something and person Y spends £300 and didn't have to rub shoulders with riff raff or shop around. Look at me! I've got more money (and less sense) than you! :p

I think a lot of people buy most of the Apple products because probably the style appeals to them. There's nothing wrong with that. A practical guy like me wouldn't understand it, but I've seen people spending much more money on luxury items they don't really need, like Italian leather, gold watches etc. etc. And personally I don't have a problem with it, it's their money after all.

Apart from maybe Final Cut Pro, and then the X version, the Macbook has NOTHING else that has ever appealed to me. Yet I've seen people shelling out close to 500 GBP more for the exact same hardware they would get if they buy, let's say, a Dell or an Acer, which IMO is madness! The latest version of Premiere works just as good as FCP if you know how to use it. I used a friend's iPad for a week and couldn't find anything extra it would do that my cheaper laptop wouldn't. It's a little toy which can carry out basic stuff and play basic games. But Apple asking 600 GBP for something like that is unjustified IMO.

Malbec

23rd September 2011, 12:47

I don't have a problem with the iPad being a nice little toy for technologically-challenged people. The problem I have is, why should I pay the same amount or MORE for something with which I can do MUCH, MUCH lesser? I mean for 600 GBP you get a 64 GB capacity iPad, which is a robbery! It may sound nerdy to you, but I'm not really into getting shortchanged by Apple just to look "cool" in some circles.

Why compare a 600 quid top of the range iPad with a laptop? Most people would be buying the cheapest models in either range.

CaptainRaiden

23rd September 2011, 12:53

Nor do I have a problem with the laptop being a nice little toy for technologically-geeky people.

(See, we can all do it :p )

:laugh:

Just so you know, I have NO problem at all being called a geek or a nerd. ;)

CaptainRaiden

23rd September 2011, 13:00

Why compare a 600 quid top of the range iPad with a laptop? Most people would be buying the cheapest models in either range.

Comparing because the most expensive top of the line iPad 2 still comes with pretty crap hardware. The cheapest iPad has 16 GB capacity. My Samsung Galaxy S has more than that...

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 13:33

A funny thing I've noticed on this forum is that some guys don't understand that people have needs that go beyond having the best spec possible for the price.

Personally when it comes to meetings I'm a fountain pen and paper man. Electronic stuff merely gets in the way especially when you already have reams of minutes of previous meetings, agenda and various summaries to wade through already. A laptop in such a situation is laughable and merely an annoyance especially given how slow they can be to start up

Arrows' comment about using a drawing app to take notes on is appealing for me even if there is no writing recognition going on, because a tablet in such a situation could actually be handy and replace my easily lost scraps of paper.

Daniel, you keep going on at people who have iPads claiming that other options could perform some other tasks better. I'm sure you're right on paper, unfortunately people don't live their lives on paper.

I understand where you're coming from and I'm not simply focusing on the fact that one machine has more memory than another even if that might appear to be the case.

Laptops shouldn't take that long to boot up. If they are taking a laughable amount of time to boot up then your IT people need a good hiding. My laptop here at work takes ages to boot because my predecessor seems to have installed a load of crap which simply didn't need to be on there. Tbh I think there are probably far more elegant solutions out there for the issue of taking notes in a meeting. I think the world of IT is full of a lot of really unimaginative dullards who like to overcomplicate where simplicity is required and who try to go for the easiest sollution when a bit of lateral thinking or innovation is needed.

Case in point, this new job I started a month or so ago. There are a lot of really basic things which simply don't work, but there are printers in locked rooms with only one person using them which are networked. Why?!?!?!?!? Why the hell overcomplicate that can be so simple. I also have to support some remote sites. One site has a desktop PC and connects over a VPN back to base and of course the VPN needs a 100% stable connection. So when the wireless invariably drops because it's going through quite a bit of wall and crap, the VPN disconnects and the PC is more or less useless. Just cable it ffs or use a powerline adaptor.

I'm not against technology and I'm not against Apple products per se, I happily ordered 2 iPad 2's recently for students with disabilities and I think they'll be FANTASTIC for them. I just think that in most cases there are far better solutions to problems than an iPad. When someone is quadriplegic and has very limited use of their upper limbs then I can't really think of anything better than a tablet.

The problem with IT expenditure is that the hierachy which is completely ignorant in terms of technology or the need for technology see something like an iPad on the BBC getting praise for this and that and they think "ooh they must be good" and we should start pushing them into our schools, hopsitals etc etc. Case in point is Caroline's school, some dipwad went down the route of looking whether iPad's would be money well spent. The roof of the school leaks in places when it rains ffs!!!!!! Sort out the big problems first and then if you've got money to splash out on luxuries then sure, if it adds value then chuck some iPad's in. I know different money comes from different pots and all, but surely ensuring the students have a roof over their head should be the primary priority.

ArrowsFA1

23rd September 2011, 13:59

:laugh:

Just so you know, I have NO problem at all being called a geek or a nerd. ;)
:s mokin: :up:

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 14:47

Anyway, now for something interesting.

Microsoft patents modular Windows Phone with swappable batteries, keyboard, and gamepad -- Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/23/microsoft-patents-modular-windows-phone-with-swappable-batteries/)

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 15:31

iTunes fraud surge hits gift card balances, PayPal accounts | TUAW - The Unofficial Apple Weblog (http://www.tuaw.com/2011/06/08/itunes-fraud-surge-hits-gift-card-balances-paypal-accounts/)

This is pretty bad and why I only use a debit car with no overdraft which only ever has a tiny amount of money in it for my purchases on my phone.

Welcome to the Cloud - "Your Apple ID has been disabled." - Scott Hanselman (http://www.hanselman.com/blog/WelcomeToTheCloudYourAppleIDHasBeenDisabled.aspx)

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 15:51

Firstly I wouldn't say the ipad is aimed at technologically-challenged people and not sure why you think that but its your opinion and thats fine. In reality you shouldn't buy an ipad that is more expensive because its not the product for you. If you can get a laptop that is better all-round for what you want it for, you get what you need. As I keep saying its all personal taste at the end of the day and if someone wants something that is different then its fine. Its a product and its in the marketplace and people are buying them, so its a niche that is working.

Yourself and Daniel are obviously against this type of device and I was wondering is it an annoyance that so many people don't see it the way you feel about it? Every single product in existance has people who will buy it and like it and those who won't. What is it about the ipad or say Apple products in general? :)

It's the fact that Apple has taken a product which has such limited use and seems to have marketed it as this product for the masses and succeeded in convincing people that it's the most useful thing ever. I remember playing around with tablets back in 2004/5 and thinking how useless they were for most people.

http://www.tabletpc2.com/Graphics/Reviews/HP%20tc1100%20review%20photos/Tc1100-inCase.JPG

To me a tablet comes into its own a sort of clipboard replacement and that is certainly how people seemed to use the above device. I think I met maybe 2 or 3 tablet users whilst working for a large HP service company? I think one of the guys who was using it tended to work around building sites as a surveyor and it was perfect for his needs because you really need a device which could be used in your arms. Thing is as soon as you can actually sit down, a laptop makes a lot more sense, hence why even back then the TC1100 was a convertible tablet. Sure iOS is a more tablet centred OS and that means it makes more sense, but you will never get back the precision that comes with having a keyboard and a trackpad or better yet, a mouse. But for places like hospitals I can really see tablets replacing the chart at the end of your bed and enabling the doctors/nurses to have your whole medical history at their fingertips.

There's one person on here (I won't name names but it's not you henners in case you're wondering) who probably thinks I'm poor which is why I resent people who can afford to buy iPad's and iPhone's and so on. This is simply not true and if I wanted I could easily buy Caroline and myself an iPad tomorrow. In reality I've already got an ultraportable tablet with phone capability so why do I want a big one?

My only other annoyances with Apple stuff is the fact that it's overpriced, they do stuff like bundle Quicktime with iTunes (Micro$oft would have an anti-trust case against them if they did this!!!!!), their advertising is dishonest and misleading and they're a bunch of patent whores who wish to stifle their competitors with legal paperwork rather than compete on a level playing field. To me it's like buying a Ferrari hat and sending your money to Maranello so they can be a bunch of twats with it, who wants to support a team who would happily take to the track on its own and pat itself on the back as a winner than compete on a level playing field.

Knock-on

23rd September 2011, 16:29

Wow you're good!!!!!!!

Speaking as an IT person, your laptop is a tool which you're not meant to be using to play DVD's install hello kitty desktop themes and so on and so forth on.

The thing about IT people is they know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

You would look at a beautiful, overgrown, natural field and claim it would be a lot more efficient if it were Tarmac'd :D

However, I have some bad news for you and the rest of the work prevention department. People like me are working with people like your MD and CFO to enable workers to access their personal devices on your precious secure networks. Want to know why (and you're gonna really hate this bit). BECAUSE IT MAKES THEM MORE EFFECTIVE!

You see (well, you don't) it's not about what machine has the biggest HD or fastest graphics card or most RAM. Those things are about as important as what make of Unleaded you put in your car. It doesn't matter one iota. What does matter is that workers use what enables them to do their job to the best of their ability.

Sorry to break that to you :)

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 17:13

The thing about IT people is they know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

You would look at a beautiful, overgrown, natural field and claim it would be a lot more efficient if it were Tarmac'd :D

However, I have some bad news for you and the rest of the work prevention department. People like me are working with people like your MD and CFO to enable workers to access their personal devices on your precious secure networks. Want to know why (and you're gonna really hate this bit). BECAUSE IT MAKES THEM MORE EFFECTIVE!

You see (well, you don't) it's not about what machine has the biggest HD or fastest graphics card or most RAM. Those things are about as important as what make of Unleaded you put in your car. It doesn't matter one iota. What does matter is that workers use what enables them to do their job to the best of their ability.

Sorry to break that to you :)

You seem to have replied to someone else? :confused:

Tbh playing DVD's isn't a big issue on work devices. But let me just say that when I worked for the county council, users who had in the past installed programs before rights levels changed and who have gigs and gigs of personal photos and music and so on on their work pc's are a lot less productive and also introduce viruses to networks.

race aficionado

23rd September 2011, 17:46

Speaking about viruses, have you been hit with any lately? In all my years owning a computer (in my case a MAC) I have never been invaded. * I'm not rubbing any thing in . . . just asking. :)

Knock-on

23rd September 2011, 17:48

You seem to have replied to someone else? :confused:

Tbh playing DVD's isn't a big issue on work devices. But let me just say that when I worked for the county council, users who had in the past installed programs before rights levels changed and who have gigs and gigs of personal photos and music and so on on their work pc's are a lot less productive and also introduce viruses to networks.

God, have I had to suffer IT workers and their precious corporate standards and policies.

You will find that allowing people corporate access from personal machines is not just desirable but will become the norm. It's quite simple to demark corporate data without compromising security. In fact, it makes it easier as you just protect whats important rather than try and control everything.

IT is there to support the workforce, not to try and control them. Soon you will find people at the council working and communicating in the corporate environment on Android, iPhone, Linux or whatever they want on personal machines.

Malbec

23rd September 2011, 17:53

You see (well, you don't) it's not about what machine has the biggest HD or fastest graphics card or most RAM. Those things are about as important as what make of Unleaded you put in your car. It doesn't matter one iota. What does matter is that workers use what enables them to do their job to the best of their ability.

Sorry to break that to you :)

Precisely.

To be honest I don't recognise Daniel's portrayal of IT departments. Ours has two functions, to keep what we have working and to be involved with (but not lead) the procurement of new contracts.

They cannot simply decide to go for the iPad because it looks cool. They have to talk to departments like ours and help establish key requirements and help shortlist contractors.

Because our contracts are not for hardware or even software but for an entire package, it is up to the contractor to decide what hardware we end up using. If they decide to go for the iPad or an Apple package so be it. If they go for MS, thats fine too. We'll take what looks most cost-effective whilst ticking all our boxes.

If the package doesn't work or ends up being unreliable its not our problem, the contract will have so many penalty clauses that we'll make a lot of the contract money back. I suspect IT in most institutions work on a similar basis.

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 17:53

Speaking about viruses, have you been hit with any lately? In all my years owning a computer (in my case a MAC) I have never been invaded. * I'm not rubbing any thing in . . . just asking. :)

Nope. Not had one since about 2001 when I ran an exe file someone who was infected with the same virus sent me on msn messenger.

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 18:10

Precisely.

To be honest I don't recognise Daniel's portrayal of IT departments. Ours has two functions, to keep what we have working and to be involved with (but not lead) the procurement of new contracts.

They cannot simply decide to go for the iPad because it looks cool. They have to talk to departments like ours and help establish key requirements and help shortlist contractors.

Because our contracts are not for hardware or even software but for an entire package, it is up to the contractor to decide what hardware we end up using. If they decide to go for the iPad or an Apple package so be it. If they go for MS, thats fine too. We'll take what looks most cost-effective whilst ticking all our boxes.

If the package doesn't work or ends up being unreliable its not our problem, the contract will have so many penalty clauses that we'll make a lot of the contract money back. I suspect IT in most institutions work on a similar basis.

I'm sorry, but nowhere today have I actually gone on about the fact that the hardware in an iPad is not as powerful as that of a laptop, I think you'll find that's captain raiden. So you're agreeing to knock on's false view of what I've said :laugh: It's easy to make someone look stupid when you make out that they've said something they never said :rolleyes: When I say functional I mean functional in terms of the form factor and the options that you have in terms of input. But hey lets not get bogged down by what people actually said :mark:

I agree that IT shouldn't lead procurement of software, you're the customer, you know what you want it to do. BUT your IT department have to support it and the project has to run within the framework that they lay down.

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 18:18

God, have I had to suffer IT workers and their precious corporate standards and policies.

You will find that allowing people corporate access from personal machines is not just desirable but will become the norm. It's quite simple to demark corporate data without compromising security. In fact, it makes it easier as you just protect whats important rather than try and control everything.

The norm? Where?!?!?!?!?!?!? That's crackers. So Mr MD whose son likes to look at porn and browse download torrents on his personal laptop can bring said laptop into work where it's free to cause mayhem? Might as well put all your PC's and servers in the DMZ and hope for the best, means less work for your networks team having to add exceptions to firewalls and ACL's and the like. I administer the domain at work and the students are welcome to have iPhones, iPad's, smartphones and the like on the wireless network, there's not much harm they can do. But there's absolutely no way that any machine which I'm not the local admin on is going on the domain. Not a snowballs chance in hell. Hell there's less than 0 chance of that happening.

That sort of thing is fantastic and probably increases productivity hundredfold (/s), but as soon as something goes wrong any "advantages" are wiped out many many many times over.

BDunnell

23rd September 2011, 18:19

BDunnell

23rd September 2011, 18:20

You will find that allowing people corporate access from personal machines is not just desirable but will become the norm.

As working from home increases, this is inevitable.

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 18:25

As working from home increases, this is inevitable.

There's a big difference between allowing someone to log in @ home to a citrix session and allowing that person to bring that laptop into work and have it on the corporate domain.

Personally I wouldn't take my machine into work and plug it in and put it on the domain, I just wouldn't even though I'm 99.999999999999999% sure there are no viruses or malware on there.

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 19:00

There's a difference between that and allowing devices in the domain as i said

Malbec

23rd September 2011, 19:00

I'm sorry, but nowhere today have I actually gone on about the fact that the hardware in an iPad is not as powerful as that of a laptop, I think you'll find that's captain raiden.

What are you on about? Read my post you quoted, where was I comparing laptops to iPads? I didn't even mention the word 'laptop'.

I was referring to this post of yours

The problem with IT expenditure is that the hierachy which is completely ignorant in terms of technology or the need for technology see something like an iPad on the BBC getting praise for this and that and they think "ooh they must be good" and we should start pushing them into our schools, hopsitals etc etc. Case in point is Caroline's school, some dipwad went down the route of looking whether iPad's would be money well spent. The roof of the school leaks in places when it rains ffs!!!!!! Sort out the big problems first and then if you've got money to splash out on luxuries then sure, if it adds value then chuck some iPad's in. I know different money comes from different pots and all, but surely ensuring the students have a roof over their head should be the primary priority.

I don't know of any organisation where the IT department or similar looks into buying a particular bit of hardware purely on its own. That isn't how procurement works. For us, any procurement contract over 20k has to be put out to tender in international journals and can be challenged retrospectively by any losing bidder. The deal has to be watertight and can't be made on a whim.

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 19:05

Knockie made out that I said it was all about hardware and you said precisely....

Malbec

23rd September 2011, 19:07

Knockie made out that I said it was all about hardware and you said precisely....

You clearly didn't make it beyond that sentence!

Daniel

23rd September 2011, 20:05

What are you on about? Read my post you quoted, where was I comparing laptops to iPads? I didn't even mention the word 'laptop'.

I was referring to this post of yours

I don't know of any organisation where the IT department or similar looks into buying a particular bit of hardware purely on its own. That isn't how procurement works. For us, any procurement contract over 20k has to be put out to tender in international journals and can be challenged retrospectively by any losing bidder. The deal has to be watertight and can't be made on a whim.

Local government. If they're happy with what they've buying currently, they will happily go out and buy the same.

BleAivano

24th September 2011, 14:47

Local government. If they're happy with what they've buying currently, they will happily go out and buy the same.

Not if they're within the EU. Then they have to follow the rules and regulation for Public Procurement,
read more about it here: Government procurement in the European Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_procurement_in_the_European_Union) and here:
European Commission » Internal Market » Public Procurement (http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/publicprocurement/index_en.htm)

ioan

24th September 2011, 17:16

Thing is, a phone is still a lot more useful in that situation, sure the screen isn't quite so big, but personally I just don't get the point in carrying something so big that duplicates the functionality of a device that pretty much everyone has. I mean does anyone carry a netbook AND a laptop around with them? :mark:

That's why I got myself a Samsung Tab, it's small and it's also my phone, so I don't have to lug around a PC and a phone to get internet access and to call friends. IMO the best solution.

ioan

24th September 2011, 17:30

For me the iPad is more functional than a laptop.

Which means that you do no productive work whatsoever.

Daniel

24th September 2011, 18:02

That's why I got myself a Samsung Tab, it's small and it's also my phone, so I don't have to lug around a PC and a phone to get internet access and to call friends. IMO the best solution.

I still think that a 7" tablet is too big for you to be carrying around in your pocket but that's just me ;)

donKey jote

24th September 2011, 18:25

Daniel: "Hey iOan, is that a Samsung Tab in your pocket? " :p

ArrowsFA1

24th September 2011, 20:18

Which means that you do no productive work whatsoever.
ioan, you have no idea, really no idea, what you are talking about :laugh:

ioan

24th September 2011, 20:53

ioan, you have no idea, really no idea, what you are talking about :laugh:

I stand by my opinion, cause hot air and CO2 =/= productive in my book.

ArrowsFA1

25th September 2011, 07:53

I stand by my opinion, cause hot air and CO2 =/= productive in my book.
That's a shame because personally I would not accuse you of doing "no productive work whatsoever" based on your preference for a Samsung Tab. That would be an assumption based on a lack of an meaningful information, and therefore impossible to back up.

BDunnell

25th September 2011, 09:33

Which means that you do no productive work whatsoever.

ioan, that is really quite an insulting remark to make about someone you don't know. I'd take it back if I were you.

Andrewmcm

25th September 2011, 23:43

I hardly imagine that one user of this forum is in a position to comment on the suitability of IT systems for another user, particularly if they don't know each other personally.

Andrewmcm

25th September 2011, 23:44

In other news, probable new iPhone in October.

BDunnell

25th September 2011, 23:44

I hardly imagine that one user of this forum is in a position to comment on the suitability of IT systems for another user, particularly if they don't know each other personally.

What a Luddite position for someone to adopt in the 21st century. Don't you realise that we don't any longer need to know anything about a subject in order to comment on it? Merely a vague 'reckon', as Mitchell and Webb put it, is good enough.

Daniel

25th September 2011, 23:44

In other news, probable new iPhone in October.

Yup. October 4th. Sure to kill all of any publicity Microsoft would have had with the release of Mango. Nice work Microsoft :up:

BDunnell

25th September 2011, 23:46

In other news, probable new iPhone in October.

Will the battery last more than five minutes if the device is used?

I realise I may have ranted about this before, but it is for me the most utterly infuriating thing about all Apple products.

Andrewmcm

25th September 2011, 23:48

What a Luddite position for someone to adopt in the 21st century. Don't you realise that we don't any longer need to know anything about a subject in order to comment on it? Merely a vague 'reckon', as Mitchell and Webb put it, is good enough.

Cheap broadband provides internet access and hence a voice to everyone. Even those who really shouldn't be heard.....

BDunnell

25th September 2011, 23:49

Yup. October 4th. Sure to kill all of any publicity Microsoft would have had with the release of Mango. Nice work Microsoft :up:

A few years ago, Private Eye ran a little item about how favourable press coverage of Apple products may have something to do with the fact that National Union of Journalists members receive a discount on items bought through the Apple store. Clearly I was meant to be disgusted by this conflict of interest, as I often am when reading reports in the Eye. However, up until then I was unaware of this offer, so, as an NUJ member, I immediately took advantage of it and bought a MacBook. Not the desired effect of the piece, granted, but I was most grateful for the tip.

Andrewmcm

25th September 2011, 23:52

They also give discount to Higher Education institutions, hence the proliferation of Macs in Universities these days.

Daniel

26th September 2011, 00:03

A few years ago, Private Eye ran a little item about how favourable press coverage of Apple products may have something to do with the fact that National Union of Journalists members receive a discount on items bought through the Apple store. Clearly I was meant to be disgusted by this conflict of interest, as I often am when reading reports in the Eye. However, up until then I was unaware of this offer, so, as an NUJ member, I immediately took advantage of it and bought a MacBook. Not the desired effect of the piece, granted, but I was most grateful for the tip.

:D

You'd be an idiot not to.

It is very interesting to see how Apple make themselves more popular with certain groups of people in society who perhaps yield a little more power than others. A Stephen Fry on twitter yammering on about your iDevice is a million times more effective than 1000 people on a forum going on about a Samsung tablet or laptop or whatever.

The power of the internet to sell products is amazing. On another forum I post on, I've convinced about half a dozen people to firstly buy winter tyres, and also buy the same brand of winter tyres I've put on our car. It's only September too and winter is at least 4-6 weeks away. 6 x 4 tyres at £50 each is £1200 which of course is nothing, but if a Clarkson or Hammond started telling people to buy a certain brand of winter tyres then sales would skyrocket.

BDunnell

26th September 2011, 00:08

It is very interesting to see how Apple make themselves more popular with certain groups of people in society who perhaps yield a little more power than others. A Stephen Fry on twitter yammering on about your iDevice is a million times more effective than 1000 people on a forum going on about a Samsung tablet or laptop or whatever.

Is that a conscious thing on Apple's part, though? Even if it is, I really don't care. Apple products suit my needs down to the ground, but in no way is this the case because of any perceived image they have. They simply do.

The power of the internet to sell products is amazing. On another forum I post on, I've convinced about half a dozen people to firstly buy winter tyres, and also buy the same brand of winter tyres I've put on our car. It's only September too and winter is at least 4-6 weeks away. 6 x 4 tyres at £50 each is £1200 which of course is nothing, but if a Clarkson or Hammond started telling people to buy a certain brand of winter tyres then sales would skyrocket.

I would run a mile from anything endorsed by those people. Even oxygen.

Daniel

26th September 2011, 00:14

Is that a conscious thing on Apple's part, though? Even if it is, I really don't care. Apple products suit my needs down to the ground, but in no way is this the case because of any perceived image they have. They simply do.

I would run a mile from anything endorsed by those people. Even oxygen.

I'm sure it's conscious on Apple's part.

I tend to agree. I wouldn't make motoring decisions based on either of them either, but millions would.

BDunnell

26th September 2011, 00:17

I'm sure it's conscious on Apple's part.

I tend to agree. I wouldn't make motoring decisions based on either of them either, but millions would.

Just as the shops (those that stocked them) sold out of capers after Delia Smith used them in a recipe years ago. I find this sort of behaviour very odd.

CaptainRaiden

26th September 2011, 06:49

That's why I got myself a Samsung Tab, it's small and it's also my phone, so I don't have to lug around a PC and a phone to get internet access and to call friends. IMO the best solution.

You don't need to have a tablet to get internet access. All smart phones sold today have easy 3G, 4G and Wi-fi access, and any Android smart phone can do all the tasks that a tablet can, albeit on a tad smaller screen. The Samsung Galaxy Tab is a sort of a compromise between a tablet and a smart phone, and IMO doesn't work on both fronts. Too big for a phone to carry around in your pocket (unless you weigh like 40 kilos and wear baggy clothes), and too small screen to actually enjoy it as a tablet, like the iPad. They wanted to bring together the best of both sides, but ended up having a pretty crappy compromise.

And that's why Samsung is correcting this mistake by introducing the Galaxy Tab 10.1 now, whose hardware BTW will blow the iPad 2 out of the water.

But well, whatever works for ya. In my opinion the iPad makes more sense than the older Galaxy Tab, I'm afraid.

donKey jote

26th September 2011, 07:34

buy the same brand of winter tyres I've put on our car.
:eek: you bumkey! :crazy: :p

Daniel

26th September 2011, 08:54

:eek: you bumkey! :crazy:

If you arrange a discount for Conti's then I'll get them to buy Conti's :p Conti's are about 15% more expensive :p Must be the S-Max surcharge ;)

Mark

26th September 2011, 09:18

In other news, probable new iPhone in October.

Yeah first it was September now October. Rumour is that iOS 5 is out on the 10th October, which I'm very much looking forward too (cue post by Daniel saying Windows phones have all the features already)

Mark

26th September 2011, 09:19

Will the battery last more than five minutes if the device is used?

I realise I may have ranted about this before, but it is for me the most utterly infuriating thing about all Apple products.

The battery lasts for ages in my iPhone 4

Dave B

26th September 2011, 09:26

Daniel

26th September 2011, 09:36

Yeah first it was September now October. Rumour is that iOS 5 is out on the 10th October, which I'm very much looking forward too (cue post by Daniel saying Windows phones have all the features already)

Why not point out when WP7 already has those features? People point out that iOS or Android or whatever already does things WP doesn't yet do? WP's lack of true multitasking is annoying and iOS and Android do it far better.

WP already did the following which are new features in iOS5.

Wireless syncing
Opening the camera while the phone is locked with a single press (WP does it better by having a dedicated camera button)
Cloud storage
Tabbed browsing

and probably a few other things. I don't see what's wrong with pointing that out?

Daniel

26th September 2011, 09:37

My favourite iOS5 feature is being able to use bold and italics in your emails - I've seen the future! :D

I can't do that on my phone :(

Mark

26th September 2011, 09:49

And there we are...

Daniel

26th September 2011, 09:56

And there we are...

and? :confused:

I suppose in two weeks you'll sarcastically say "I'm sure some Vettel fan will come along and post a "Congratulations Sebastian" thread now :rolleyes: " I'm not quite sure why he have a discussion forum where people are discouraged from discussing the topics :confused: Did I lie about Windows Phone having those features before iOS? I'm not quite sure I understand the issue here.

*Posted on my Windows Phone from Anti-Apple headquarters deep deep underground using the Board Express Pro App.*

Mark

26th September 2011, 10:50

It's just a bit boring that we can't talk about "Phone x can now do y" without "phone z has been able to do that for ages!!!!!!!!!!111!!!one"

Daniel

26th September 2011, 11:23

It's just a bit boring that we can't talk about "Phone x can now do y" without "phone z has been able to do that for ages!!!!!!!!!!111!!!one"

But if it's the truth? I don't quite see the problem. I don't mind people pointing out that I can't set custom ringtones on my phone and you can on an iPhone or an Android phone or on a 5 year old Nokia.....

I'm genuinely interested in technology so for me it's interesting to see who has what, who is presenting old stuff as new and who is missing stuff which others have had for years (by this I mean WP7 more than anything.......)

Andrewmcm

26th September 2011, 12:31

Daniel

26th September 2011, 12:55

I think it's more the context in which these comparisons are delivered. Scan through the 59 pages of this thread and it's fairly clear on which sides of the technological front we all stand. It then becomes clear that posters incorporate subjectivity into their postings about the various deficiencies or advantages of their preferred device, rather than looking at things objectively.

So I'm being subjective when I point out that WP7 is missing some crucial things which iOS and Android have had for a while, whilst pointing out that it's also got some things which iOS doesn't have which WP7 has had since launch. That people can't actually just argue the facts is and have to try and make out that someone merely wants to point out the negatives of one platform whilst ignoring the positives when that clearly isn't the truth is a bit strange. How would you sum it up? I don't even see where I've been supposedly subjective in most posts since Mark baited me to point out the new features Apple is launching which WP7 already had. If you're going to accuse me of something then tell me where I supposedly went wrong :)

Seems no matter what I say, when it comes to a thread which even vaguely concerns apple, then people only hear one thing lol :laugh:

Andrewmcm

26th September 2011, 13:25

Interestingly your name didn't crop up once in my post, Daniel, so I find it hard to understand how you feel that I would be accusing you of something specific.

On this thread, and on others to do with Apple/Microsoft I have been more than happy to declare that (these days) I primarily use Apple devices as they best suit my needs. I have also stated that if my needs change in the future I will happily move to another manufacturer. I have also stated that people seeking guidance on purchasing a device should try as many as possible and then make an informed decision, rather than pay heed to the subjective experiences and biased views of posters on this (and other) forum(s).

Fanboy-ism is a waste of time. Particularly for grown adults who should be able to see past the spin and make their own minds up about things.

donKey jote

26th September 2011, 18:21

If you arrange a discount for Conti's then I'll get them to buy Conti's :p
Those were the days... I just paid 850€ for my new set. And I got them >20% cheaper on the tinternet than though our very own outlet :crazy: :eek:

Malbec

26th September 2011, 18:50

Is that a conscious thing on Apple's part, though? Even if it is, I really don't care. Apple products suit my needs down to the ground, but in no way is this the case because of any perceived image they have. They simply do.

Which is the same in my case, at least with the desktops. I switched to Apple because they deliver exactly what I need.

Last week my 8 year old powermac died a death. I bought a new iMac, connected up the timemachine external drive and when I booted up the iMac for the first time I was asked if I wanted to restore my entire previous system. An hour of restoration after all my files, applications and preferences had been restored with only one click, no need to hunt around for disks and drivers. This kind of convenience is what makes Apples special.

I don't get this blanket "I don't see why people buy apple products" and the derision aimed at those who buy them. Nor do I understand judgmental posts like the one we saw from ioan on the previous page.

These are merely computers and phones. Different products are aimed at different parts of the market and fulfil different needs. So what? There are more interesting and exciting things in the world to get passionate about.

Daniel

26th September 2011, 19:05

Which is the same in my case, at least with the desktops. I switched to Apple because they deliver exactly what I need.

Last week my 8 year old powermac died a death. I bought a new iMac, connected up the timemachine external drive and when I booted up the iMac for the first time I was asked if I wanted to restore my entire previous system. An hour of restoration after all my files, applications and preferences had been restored with only one click, no need to hunt around for disks and drivers. This kind of convenience is what makes Apples special.

I don't get this blanket "I don't see why people buy apple products" and the derision aimed at those who buy them. Nor do I understand judgmental posts like the one we saw from ioan on the previous page.

These are merely computers and phones. Different products are aimed at different parts of the market and fulfil different needs. So what? There are more interesting and exciting things in the world to get passionate about.

Thing is you can do this with a Windows PC. The problem is that Microsoft barely publicise a lot of the functionality that their products offer. When I talk about a Windows Home Server I imagine people visualise some really difficult to set up thing which they simply couldn't get their head around. In reality it's just a PC running some different software and I'll wager that just about anyone on this thread could set it up. My WHS actually offers a lot more functionality than a simple backup, I can access both of our PC's from anywhere in the world and I can also access my data as well. It's completely Microsoft's fault for not really advertising what their products do which leads people to believe sometimes that Apple is the only company who offers an easy and convenient (and very useful) product like Time Machine.

"There are more interesting and exciting things in the world to get passionate about."

I really strongly disagree with that. I enjoy technology, it's not merely a tool to do my job, it IS my job. My job is to keep a small college of 200 staff and students working and make them as productive as possible. I'm not really all that passionate about the healthcare system like you might be but I'm not going to say "Why anyone would be passionate about healthcare I'll never know!!!!!". Just because you're not passionate about something doesn't mean that someone else shouldn't be passionate about it. If people weren't passionate about IT, we'd probably still have sure dire OS's as Windows 98, Windows ME or XP or pre OSX Mac OS's which IMO were terrible. I for one am glad that people want to do better. Some people like to watch trains, some people like to climb different mountains and I like technology.

Malbec

26th September 2011, 19:11

Thing is you can do this with a Windows PC. The problem is that Microsoft barely publicise a lot of the functionality that their products offer. When I talk about a Windows Home Server I imagine people visualise some really difficult to set up thing which they simply couldn't get their head around. In reality it's just a PC running some different software and I'll wager that just about anyone on this thread could set it up. My WHS actually offers a lot more functionality than a simple backup, I can access both of our PC's from anywhere in the world and I can also access my data as well. It's completely Microsoft's fault for not really advertising what their products do which leads people to believe sometimes that Apple is the only company who offers an easy and convenient (and very useful) product like Time Machine.

So if I attach a brand new unused machine to the Windows home server with one click it will install all the applications and preferences that were on the old pc? I'm genuinely curious.

I really strongly disagree with that. I enjoy technology, it's not merely a tool to do my job, it IS my job. My job is to keep a small college of 200 staff and students working and make them as productive as possible. I'm not really all that passionate about the healthcare system like you might be but I'm not going to say "Why anyone would be passionate about healthcare I'll never know!!!!!". Just because you're not passionate about something doesn't mean that someone else shouldn't be passionate about it. If people weren't passionate about IT, we'd probably still have sure dire OS's as Windows 98, Windows ME or XP or pre OSX Mac OS's which IMO were terrible. I for one am glad that people want to do better. Some people like to watch trains, some people like to climb different mountains and I like technology.

When people start deriding others who buy a particular product as being ignorant or unproductive then things have gone too far. Being interested in a subject is great. Being abusive or judgmental is not.

Knock-on

26th September 2011, 19:16

Daniel

26th September 2011, 19:31

So if I attach a brand new unused machine to the Windows home server with one click it will install all the applications and preferences that were on the old pc? I'm genuinely curious.

I believe that is possible yes. Chuck a cd in the disc drive and boot up off that and go into the recovery console. You'll probably run into some driver issues but nothing that couldn't be sorted easily. Personally I see it being more use from the PoV that you hard drive has just died and you can just restore the PC back to how it was before the HDD died.

Malbec

26th September 2011, 19:40

I believe that is possible yes. Chuck a cd in the disc drive and boot up off that and go into the recovery console. You'll probably run into some driver issues but nothing that couldn't be sorted easily. Personally I see it being more use from the PoV that you hard drive has just died and you can just restore the PC back to how it was before the HDD died.

This is the difference between MS and Apple for me.

If someone like you 'believes that is possible' then someone like me will have to spend a lot of time trawling around on the internet finding out how to do it.

To do this on the Mac all you have to do is attach an external hard drive and switch the Time Machine function on to backup the entire system.

To restore everything from an old Mac onto a brand new Mac all you have to do is plug in the external hard drive, say yes when you're asked if you want to restore an old system and select the drive you want to use. Then you go off and make some tea. Thats it.

This is all included on the basic OS and backup occurs regularly without prompting, though obviously this is the case for any backup system.

There is no need for bootup discs or driver issues. The only problem I had was with applications I had that were 32 bit specific, I had to download the 64 bit equivalents.

The ease with which this was all done is exactly why I use Macs.

BDunnell

26th September 2011, 20:00

Andrewmcm

26th September 2011, 20:05

I recently downgraded from Lion to Snow Leopard on my laptop as Lion is, shall we say, not the most optimised operating system at present. Boot into Recovery HD, select restore from Time Machine, pick a date from when I had Snow Leopard, and two hours later my laptop is exactly as it was in mid-July.

Related to that and more relevant to this thread is how iOS5 and Lion interact. I hope they retro-fit some features into Snow Leopard, as Snow Leopard isn't currently optimal for use on laptops that are not the current spec.

Knock-on

26th September 2011, 20:24

Daniel

26th September 2011, 20:26

Not quite as straight forward as you think.

The way wintel machines work makes it a pain in the ass to configure en-mass different machines. Even if you load exactly the same applications in a different order can cause conflicts.

Believe me, configuration management on a wintel platform is not as straight forward as you assume.

I agree. You can't simply image en masse for a company and have all the apps there ready to go, some things like AV generally won't work. That's what the last two companies I've worked for have deployed applications out to PC's. But generally for a home machine you're fine restoring from an image.

Daniel

26th September 2011, 20:29

This is the difference between MS and Apple for me.

If someone like you 'believes that is possible' then someone like me will have to spend a lot of time trawling around on the internet finding out how to do it.

To do this on the Mac all you have to do is attach an external hard drive and switch the Time Machine function on to backup the entire system.

To restore everything from an old Mac onto a brand new Mac all you have to do is plug in the external hard drive, say yes when you're asked if you want to restore an old system and select the drive you want to use. Then you go off and make some tea. Thats it.

This is all included on the basic OS and backup occurs regularly without prompting, though obviously this is the case for any backup system.

There is no need for bootup discs or driver issues. The only problem I had was with applications I had that were 32 bit specific, I had to download the 64 bit equivalents.

The ease with which this was all done is exactly why I use Macs.

The fact is that I've never had to use the system restore function of my Windows Home Server so without actually spending some time perusing the net and making sure, I couldn't honestly say "Yes it's 100% possible" to do exactly what you've said. I'm not the sort of person who goes out and says "yeah you can do it" if I'm not 100% sure.

We generally only know how to do what we've done before. Put me in front of a Mac and even though I'm fairly handy on a PC I'd find it hard to do things you would do without thinking. Doesn't mean that it's necessarily hard to do. Also, having to use a boot disc is hardly any more difficult than plugging an external drive in :mark:

Knock-on

26th September 2011, 20:44

I agree. You can't simply image en masse for a company and have all the apps there ready to go, some things like AV generally won't work. That's what the last two companies I've worked for have deployed applications out to PC's. But generally for a home machine you're fine restoring from an image.

I take it by deploying, you are talking about some sort of deployment technology such as Altiris or LANDesk rather than just Ghosting and deploying. All well and good although initially scripting and testing a build is rather tiresome. Then you need to deal with changes on each update or release followed by testing and deployment and....

Sod it, just trust me. Unless you have an up to date image on your home PC, you're better off building the system from scratch.

Daniel

26th September 2011, 20:54

I take it by deploying, you are talking about some sort of deployment technology such as Altiris or LANDesk rather than just Ghosting and deploying. All well and good although initially scripting and testing a build is rather tiresome. Then you need to deal with changes on each update or release followed by testing and deployment and....

Sod it, just trust me. Unless you have an up to date image on your home PC, you're better off building the system from scratch.

Oh I prefer to build my PC from scratch. If I needed to use my WHS to do a restore, I would just restore the data and install the OS from scratch. However WHS does do the same thing as OSX and you can do an incremental image based restore if you so wish.

What i was talking about was Novell Zenworks. Make a list of what the user needs by looking at their old PC or having a new software list, after the PC is imaged, zenworks installs, you log in as admin, click on what you want and it pulls the packages down off the network and installs it automatically. No need for lengthy testing or anything. Very very simple. Fantastic for use with really obscure stuff which you seldom have to work on, but when it needs to be worked on, needs to be working 100% as soon as possible.

Malbec

26th September 2011, 21:03

Oh I prefer to build my PC from scratch. If I needed to use my WHS to do a restore, I would just restore the data and install the OS from scratch. However WHS does do the same thing as OSX and you can do an incremental image based restore if you so wish.

What i was talking about was Novell Zenworks. Make a list of what the user needs by looking at their old PC or having a new software list, after the PC is imaged, zenworks installs, you log in as admin, click on what you want and it pulls the packages down off the network and installs it automatically. No need for lengthy testing or anything. Very very simple. Fantastic for use with really obscure stuff which you seldom have to work on, but when it needs to be worked on, needs to be working 100% as soon as possible.

Windows Home Server needs to be bought separately though doesn't it? It isn't an integral part of Windows 7 right?

Daniel

26th September 2011, 21:16

Windows Home Server needs to be bought separately though doesn't it? It isn't an integral part of Windows 7 right?

Yup. But lets be honest £40 is hardly going to break the bank, plus rather than having to buy an external hard drive, you reuse your old PC.

Andrewmcm

27th September 2011, 11:56

£40 that most people wouldn't realise that they may need to spend in the first place perhaps.

System backups are much more useful in the era of mass storage. Back in the days when all we had were 40MB hard drives, a few floppy disks would store most of our files. Now we have several hundred GBs of files on our drives, and if they are lost it's a hell of a job to replace them.

I also like the phone backup system that manufacturers use in their computer software. If your phone is lost or stolen, you can sync the replacement to the old files and start from where you left off. Marvellous.

Mark

27th September 2011, 12:34

True. It'll be even better with cloud storage backed up daily. Your phone is then just a handset totally interchangeable.

GridGirl

27th September 2011, 13:49

I also like the phone backup system that manufacturers use in their computer software. If your phone is lost or stolen, you can sync the replacement to the old files and start from where you left off. Marvellous.

Love that function from the numerous occassions that I've had to rebuild my phone due to stupid TomTom updates. :up:

CaptainRaiden

27th September 2011, 20:03

http://www.damnlol.com/watermarked/31455b97f01c705c2ce6057aef9046d6.jpg

:laugh:

Jag_Warrior

27th September 2011, 20:23

So I'm being subjective when I point out that WP7 is missing some crucial things which iOS and Android have had for a while, whilst pointing out that it's also got some things which iOS doesn't have which WP7 has had since launch.

Not at all. Where you're being subjective is when you claim some feature is "crucial" or "vital" (as you did when you spoke of the original iPhone not having "vital" 3G capabilities). My current phone is not 3G capable. But it works perfectly fine. So how is not having 3G "vital"? Even worse was when Ioan claimed that the other gentleman was doing no productive work whatsoever if he was using an iPad instead of some Windows based device. My girl's school system uses iPads for special needs children. As I've mentioned before, some of the kids have issues with human interaction (autism and emotional problems). For whatever reason, the iPad (I suppose any tablet with the proper apps) makes these children VERY productive, relative to how they were when using Windows (or even Apple) based desktop/laptop systems.

Banks, brokerages, sales organizations, airlines, medical care facilities, manufacturing companies and all manner of businesses are adopting tablets for reasons of productivity improvement. I make my living by offering what knowledge I have of productivity and efficiency improvements to companies. But unlike certain people here, I do not (or try not to) let myself be handcuffed by prejudices or personal biases. The basic motto of my kind is to allow the data to guide decisions.

Stating various facts and features is fine. It's when people go off on hyperbolic benders, and use those facts and features to try to reach conclusions that may or may not be valid, that some disagree with.

GridGirl

29th September 2011, 08:27

Jag_Warrior

29th September 2011, 20:51

So what does everyonethink of Amazon's move into the tablet market with the Amazon Fire? I have slowly been coming round to the idea of tablets and this looks to be a tablet that wont break the bank. I also have to say that I really do love my Kindle. The idea gets a :up: from me so far but we will know more when its released. :)

The Kindle Fire looks good and if its only then I think it'll be a winner. If there is one company that can rival Apples benchmark App Store it could be Amazon IMO.

I agree with you both. From what I've read of it, the new Kindle looks like a winner. Amazon is willing to accept lower margins than most other tech/consumer companies, plus they have the vast Amazon market place. I think the first product that effectively dies with this introduction is the Nook. I don't think this version of the Kindle Fire competes directly with the iPad, just based on features... or lack thereof (no camera, mic, etc.). But there are apparently next gen. Kindles already in the works that surely will. As a low cost media consumption device, I like it - especially at that price. And isn't that where so many of the other tablets failed? They were trying to price their Hondas at the same level as the Mercedes = guaranteed failure. I can't say that the Fire is something I would buy for myself, but I can appreciate the concept. Looks good!

On a side note, there is a rumor going around that RIM is considering killing the struggling PlayBook already.

Koz

3rd October 2011, 06:47

Well its just been mentioned on the BBC that Google have accused Microsoft of using the same ruthless tactics as Apple concerning patents.. it seems Apple are no longer perceived as the sole evil do-ers in the patent war. ;)

Microsoft is, and has been, and will remain to be the dirtiest player in the game.

They essentially make as much money from Android as Google.

Mark

3rd October 2011, 08:53

What's the opinion on the new £89 Kindle?

Knock-on

3rd October 2011, 10:00

Bit much for a chocolate egg. Must have a hell of a toy for that money ;)

SGWilko

3rd October 2011, 11:07

Laptops shouldn't take that long to boot up. If they are taking a laughable amount of time to boot up then your IT people need a good hiding.

Boot speed will be limited to hardware capability. A netbook with solid state 'disks' will boot much quicker that a traditional hard drive.

SGWilko

3rd October 2011, 11:14

There's a big difference between allowing someone to log in @ home to a citrix session and allowing that person to bring that laptop into work and have it on the corporate domain.

Personally I wouldn't take my machine into work and plug it in and put it on the domain, I just wouldn't even though I'm 99.999999999999999% sure there are no viruses or malware on there.

Provide a seperate subnet then, with a clear route out through the firewall, and they can access Citrix while in the office with their personal device. Why add it to the domain??????

ArrowsFA1

3rd October 2011, 15:15

What's the opinion on the new £89 Kindle?
Like it. Never did like the keyboard that came with the version I bought. It's a digital book reader, that's all I want it to do :)

GridGirl

3rd October 2011, 15:26

What's the opinion on the new £89 Kindle?

It looks to me just to be a smaller version and without a keyboard. I've only had my kindle a couple of months but have rarely used the keyboard. I've tended to buy all my book and format thr groupings of books etc. on my PC rather than on the kindle itself. With the amount of books already on my kindle I think it would be a rare occurrence when I'd actually need the keyboard anyway. :)

Mark

4th October 2011, 19:52

iPhone 5 has been announced

Key points:
It's called the iPhone 4S!
Dual core processor from the iPad 2
8MP camera
1gb RAM up from 512mb
And that's about it: the case looks identical, so since my iPhone 4 will have the same OS there's no overwhelming reason to upgrade.

BDunnell

4th October 2011, 19:53

And, apparently, according to the BBC, this is the third most important news story in the world today.

Mark

4th October 2011, 20:13

Eh? It's 11th on the BBC News page.

Mark

5th October 2011, 08:53

I do wonder if Apple had been working on the '5' but for whatever reason it wasn't ready in time - hence the October instead of the usual June release, but instead decided to put out an updated version of the iPhone 4.

I wouldn't be surprised to see an iPhone 5 or 6 in June next year.

Not sure if this will hurt Apple basically not having anything particularly new on the table until well into 2012 at the earliest.

Malbec

5th October 2011, 10:11

Well they've missed out on Xmas at least. This is the problem with only having one product available in their smartphone range whereas new Android phones of various flavours come out every month.

BDunnell

5th October 2011, 10:14

Eh? It's 11th on the BBC News page.

Not on the international version it wasn't!

Knock-on

5th October 2011, 10:56

Provide a seperate subnet then, with a clear route out through the firewall, and they can access Citrix while in the office with their personal device. Why add it to the domain??????

There are a number of ways you can do it and the policy is widespread SGWilko.

Last year, according to Gartner (who are a bit more conservative than others on this), in a survey of companies with more than 500 employees, 43% have policies for people to use their personal devices in the workplace with 48% of companies prohibiting them.

It seems that you're a bit behind the times on this Dan so here's some easy to understand info that sets out some background for you. I don't endorse any of it BTW as it's just Janet and John stuff. If you want professional advice then it costs a bit more. I don't generally work for nothing ;)

http://www.ciosummits.com/media/pdf/solution_spotlight/sybase_IT-mangers-guide-personal-devices.PDF

Securing personal-liable mobile devices on the corporate network - SC Magazine US (http://www.scmagazineus.com/securing-personal-liable-mobile-devices-on-the-corporate-network/article/167689/)

So, you can bring your 99.999999999% safe machine (which you download strange files to :rolleyes: ) in to work quite safely.

race aficionado

5th October 2011, 15:14

I will be getting the new iPhone.

I skipped version 4 so I'm happy that I will be getting a new juiced up version compared to my current G3 that has served me so well.

:s mokin:

Andrewmcm

5th October 2011, 16:40

It certainly seems to be the case that the integer iPhone increments come with significant exterior design changes (i.e. iPhone 3G to iPhone 4), and suffix letter increments come with significant internal changes but little external change (iPhone 3G to 3GS, iPhone 4 to iPhone 4S).

I guess it comes to a point where you have to wonder how any phone manufacturer can change the externals significantly to improve upon the design? I suppose the key thing is to have the 'buzz' around your new item in order to make people want to buy it. Apple have done this well in the past, but can they sustain it?

Mark

5th October 2011, 16:58

That's true. The iPhone 4 has a pretty good design in the first place so I'm not surprised Apple wanted to keep using it for a while longer.

race aficionado

5th October 2011, 19:09

That's true. The iPhone 4 has a pretty good design in the first place so I'm not surprised Apple wanted to keep using it for a while longer.

My current iPhone has the curve design that the new one also has so I never experienced the square edge one. Mark, big difference?

Mark

5th October 2011, 20:16

I've never used the curvy one so I couldn't honestly say! My wife has a 3GS and they look quite similar; if you'd only seen an iPhone 4 and your were told the 3GS was the new model you'd believe it!

Jag_Warrior

5th October 2011, 20:49

race aficionado

5th October 2011, 21:00

Nice (minor) upgrades. But like a lot of other people, I don't understand why those additional features took 16 months to accomplish. Pretty underwhelming, IMO. Say, where's Daniel?! Here's a day when he and I would have probably agreed on something related to Apple! :D

They had to milk the 3GS for a worthwhile time before bringing us this new upgrade.

It's all for the money, two for the show . . .

:s mokin:

Mark

6th October 2011, 08:13

Steven Paul Jobs; Rest in Peace.

Malbec

6th October 2011, 09:06

RIP Steve

Like all people he had good and bad aspects, apparently he was difficult to approach and a control freak but from where I'm standing he's made a strong positive impact in my life, making computers something to do things with rather than do things to.

He will be missed.

Andrewmcm

6th October 2011, 10:25

Jag_Warrior

6th October 2011, 11:09

Sad day. The man who made computers simple again and popularised personal digital media has brought a lot to the world. As my friend pointed out on Facebook 'I wonder how many people heard of his death on a device that bears the Apple logo?' Quite a few I would imagine.

Sad indeed - though expected. And it's interesting that you mentioned how many people first heard this sad news on an Apple device. When I woke up, my iPod Touch had this as a news alert on every app that I have set up for alerts. :(

Well, I'd say Walt Disney just turned to Henry Ford and said, "Hey, make room at the table. Jobs is finally here!" :)

CarlMetro

6th October 2011, 11:20

RIP Steve Jobs - the true Mac Daddy and the daddy of the Mac

Knock-on

6th October 2011, 12:11

While I was initially disappointed, but not exactly surprised, that a separate thread of condolence could not be respected although perhaps it's more suitable that people can pay respects here. After all, Jobs fought all his life to realise a vision which became a defining brand and much more than the mere technology.

The accolades on here are testament to the success he achieved and the support for his creations a fitting obituary.

Rest in peace Mr Jobs and thanks.

Rollo

6th October 2011, 12:21

I suspect that the passing of Steve Jobs is something close to maybe that of Edison. Although there are the iDevices, there's also his influence in bringing personal computers to the home and desktop publishing, both of which have surely changed the world more than the iDevices have.

I'm interested to see how the markets will react to this. Apple's shares on Frankfurt's Börse have lost more than 5%, and I suppose once Wall St wakes up we'll probably similar falls there. Of course then there is the rest of the NASDAQ which might suffer losses by association.

wedge

6th October 2011, 14:55

I suspect that the passing of Steve Jobs is something close to maybe that of Edison.

Not even close. He refined a lot of things for sexy/mass market appeal.

Argh, my fingers, I'm about to turn into a troll! *grabs coat*

ArrowsFA1

6th October 2011, 16:10

He refined a lot of things for sexy/mass market appeal.
Or in other words:

George Stephenson did not invent the steam railway locomotive, but when he and his son, Robert, shaped Rocket in 1829 they made this revolutionary machine aesthetically and emotionally acceptable to a largely suspicious and sceptical public. Jobs has done much the same thing with Apple and the personal computer...Not everything under the digital sun is new, but Jobs knew how to make it shine into our offices, our homes and our private lives.
How Steve Jobs put the seduction into technology | Technology | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2011/oct/06/steve-jobs-seduction-technology-apple)

Malbec

6th October 2011, 18:18

Not even close. He refined a lot of things for sexy/mass market appeal.

he wasn't like Edison, that description might be more apt for Bill Gates and that was his strength.he could see geeky thing like computers and mp3 players from a non-geek perspective and design products for normal people, making them accessible. What made him special was that he had the vision and strength to make sure each part of the puzzle fit together seamlessly and reliably.

DexDexter

6th October 2011, 19:28

R.I.P.

I've never owned and will never own Apple devices but I realize he was fundamental in making gadgets easy to use for normal people.

CaptainRaiden

6th October 2011, 20:11

R.I.P.

I've never owned and will never own Apple devices but I realize he was fundamental in making gadgets easy to use for normal people.

^ This.

I won't buy an Apple product either, unless it actually made sense, but it would be foolish of me to undermine the guy's talent and brilliance as a creative innovator. He definitely made basic things very interesting, and complicated things, simple.

May he rest in peace.

GridGirl

7th October 2011, 13:28

A friend of mine who works for Microsoft seems to be enjoying some 'Windows Phone...put people first' iced cupcakes today from the pictures I've just seen. The corporate message was reinforced by sending pictures of said cupcakes out using his Windows Phone. They looked quite good actually. Gotta love a bit of self marketing. :)

wedge

7th October 2011, 15:29

George Stephenson did not invent the steam railway locomotive, but when he and his son, Robert, shaped Rocket in 1829 they made this revolutionary machine aesthetically and emotionally acceptable to a largely suspicious and sceptical public. Jobs has done much the same thing with Apple and the personal computer...Not everything under the digital sun is new, but Jobs knew how to make it shine into our offices, our homes and our private lives.

That's not the excuse for not doing the laundry, dishwasher, setting PVR, playing with factory ICE and assorted functions found on cars these days; etc, etc.

The key word is intuitive. It's what a lot of electrical goods are judged on these days.

7th October 2011, 15:41

call me bubbles bitch

7th October 2011, 15:42

hey everybody my name sam chopping i like dressing up like a girl

7th October 2011, 15:42

Everyone you can call me gay boy sam chopping

7th October 2011, 15:43

everyone my name is gay boy sam chopping call me by it bitchs

7th October 2011, 15:44

everyone bender chopping

7th October 2011, 15:44

That's not the excuse for not doing the laundry, dishwasher, setting PVR, playing with factory ICE and assorted functions found on cars these days; etc, etc.

The key word is intuitive. It's what a lot of electrical goods are judged on these days. You say like a gay boy

7th October 2011, 15:45

call me bender chopping

7th October 2011, 15:46

gay boy sam chopping

Andrewmcm

7th October 2011, 19:41

Hope they got all the bugs out of the cake! (Nerd joke)

GridGirl

7th October 2011, 20:20

I was wondering whether they were mango flavoured! (More nerd jokes) :p

I don't know how serious my friend was being but apparently the IE team at Microsoft send Firefox Microsoft branded cupcakes whenever Firefox release an update. ;) :D I want my employer to make cupcakes. We dont get much more than branded pens. How old skool.

GridGirl

10th October 2011, 20:44

Seems that the BlackBerry network crashed today although I didnt notice any problems myself.

BBC News - Blackberry services down in Europe, Middle East and Africa (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15243892)

GridGirl

10th October 2011, 21:02

That would never happen on a BlackBerry???? You dont have to be ashamed to say that Henners. :p ;)

ioan

10th October 2011, 21:33

ioan

10th October 2011, 21:36

R.I.P.

I've never owned and will never own Apple devices but I realize he was fundamental in making gadgets easy to use for normal people.

^ This! :up:

GridGirl

10th October 2011, 23:39

Didn't have any problems on mine, emails kept arriving all day long.

My emails kept arriving all day too although I could have done with some not getting through. The article said that not many business users were affected as they use a different server. :)

Mark

11th October 2011, 19:38

Let us know how it goes! I'm planning to upgrade at the weekend.

Andrewmcm

11th October 2011, 20:07

It's always worth waiting a few days before updating iOS software to check user reaction. I mistakenly put iOS4 on my former iPhone 3G immediately upon release, and the new operating system slowed the phone to a crawl.

ArrowsFA1

11th October 2011, 20:35

And before you update to iOS5:
iTunes 10.5 Lands Ahead of iOS 5 (http://mashable.com/2011/10/11/itunes-10-5/)

Knock-on

12th October 2011, 05:46

Well, I think this heralds the beginning of the end for RIM and if the information I have heard is correct, then they need shooting

As a business continuity expert, I was horrified to learn that this issue was caused by excess data buffering due to a system failure. This is totally unacceptable for a business critical communication platform. You would imagine that a company whose whole reputation and business hinges on the resilience of it's service would ensure that not only has it sufficient capacity in place in it's primary and secondary data centers to automatically fail-over live service but that these are replicated on at least a 3rd party, network and geographically independent site.

This is not rocket engineering but basic good practice. I don't know what the specific situation is but suspect that this failure was caused by the outage of what they consider a non-primary system and therefore not in their top tier critical recovery strategy. Whatever the cause, it exposes a flawed and unproven Business Continuity Plan which will petrify it's corporate clients. How many other holes are there and why did their BCP stress testing not identify such a fundamental failing.

Could it possibly be that RIM try to do everything in-house?

If this was a Financial organisation, RIM would have had strict regulatory policies that demand a proven BCP is in place to cover it's exposure and most major financial organistions go way beyond this requirement because the threat to their reputation of any outage is too much of a risk. We are not talking about the revenue loss of any downtime although this could run into many millions but the PR disaster can easily crush a company that investors lose faith in. RIM may well be caught in a crippling PR trap of their own making.

Basically, RIM may be in the crap.

Mark

12th October 2011, 19:42

Agree with all of that! RIM was in trouble anyway as Blackberry is old news now. This is the last thing they needed.

race aficionado

12th October 2011, 20:02

Agree with all of that! RIM was in trouble anyway as Blackberry is old news now. This is the last thing they needed.

It's also intresting that the Blackberry phone has such a loyal fan base.

I used to own one and I was confortable with it and it had a cool simple brick game included in it that I loved :) but the option for the iPhone just took over.

Nonetheless, I know of many friends that still have their Blackberry and have not gone to the other side (iPhones, Androids, etc.)
:s mokin:

Andrewmcm

12th October 2011, 20:53

I must admit I ignored my own advice and took the plunge immediately. iOS5 is a significant improvement, and the iCloud integration is a joy to behold. With an iMac, a Macbook Pro and an iPhone I was finding it hard to sync my calendar etc. between all the devices. Now iCloud solves those problems.

Knock-on

12th October 2011, 23:54

I have used a Blackberry, I have suggested to companies that they use BES and I have recommended Blackberry high resilient solutions (Neverfail I think it was) but the company has gone backwards in the last 5 years. It wants to be 'sick' and with the kids.

On the flip side,it has turned form a technological company trusted by millions of users into an organisation that believes it's customers are tied in in my humble opinion.

The changes in regulations in the financial community where you must record fiscal discussions could spell the end of RIM if companies cannot rely on their ability to provide the service they are contracted to.

SGWilko

13th October 2011, 09:05

GridGirl

13th October 2011, 09:33

I still havent had any problems sending or receiving mail on my BlackBerry. Cant say I've ever used BB messenger or the internet on it though.

Gotta love this. :laugh:

My Blackberry Is Not Working! - The One Ronnie, Preview - BBC One - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAG39jKi0lI)

Bezza

13th October 2011, 13:28

After 32 pages of Apple debate, I think it is important to point out that I, Bezza, have a HTC smart phone.

Kind regards,
Bez.

Mark

13th October 2011, 17:22

HTC is just a hardware manufacturer. Which is now basically irrelevant. What operating system?

ioan

13th October 2011, 19:07

I don't know what the specific situation is...

That says it all.

**** happens and can happen to everyone, get over it.

ioan

13th October 2011, 19:09

It's also intresting that the Blackberry phone has such a loyal fan base.

I used to own one and I was confortable with it and it had a cool simple brick game included in it that I loved :) but the option for the iPhone just took over.

Nonetheless, I know of many friends that still have their Blackberry and have not gone to the other side (iPhones, Androids, etc.)
:s mokin:

Honestly, for business purposes BB is still tops for several reasons, and if they don't repeat this weeks feat they will be OK.

Andrewmcm

13th October 2011, 20:46

Why are they tops for business? That's a genuine question by the way - I've never used a Blackberry and have no idea what their key features are.

Knock-on

14th October 2011, 08:38

That says it all.

**** happens and can happen to everyone, get over it.

What are you going on about now?

Nobody outside RIM knows what the specific issue was apart from it was some sort of failure at a Slough data center that caused a build up of buffered data.

It is not acceptable for it to happen and this will massively undermine business confidence in BB. Of course, if it were just 'your' web access that was affected, then we would have cause to celebrate :p

Dave B

14th October 2011, 10:58

Why are they tops for business? That's a genuine question by the way - I've never used a Blackberry and have no idea what their key features are.

They were the first mainstream device to make it an absolute doddle to use your email on the move, which we now take for granted on all but the dumbest of phones. Where RIM differ though is messaging is handled by their own servers, so you don't incur roaming charges when abroad. (That massive strength is also their Achilles heel: if their server fails we now know what happens.)

Then teenagers discovered that BBM is like a mobile version of MSN or similar, and the demand on the services ramped up massively but with RIM apparently failing to scale their business accordingly.

Businesses are unlikely to dump their BBs over a (hopefully!) one-off outage, but younger consumers are more fickle and may well migrate come upgrade time or when Santa brings them a new pay-as-you-go handset.

Andrewmcm

14th October 2011, 11:58

iOS 5 update causes massive internet traffic spike - to users' frustration | Technology | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/oct/13/ios-5-update-internet-traffic-spike) - Crikey!

SGWilko

14th October 2011, 13:37

Why are they tops for business? That's a genuine question by the way - I've never used a Blackberry and have no idea what their key features are.

3DES Encryption on email traffic, and the ability to completely lock down the handset with centralised control from the Enterprise Server. Then there is MVS, which again, can be locked down to only allow VOIP calls on WiFi connections.

Mark

30th October 2011, 14:03

So Nokia has brought out their first windows phone. The Lumia.

However instead of them coming in with a proper iPhone killer with a massively technically sophisticated phone they've done the usual Nokia trick of making it just that but under specced compared to the competition.

It seems they still haven't learned.

Andrewmcm

30th October 2011, 22:11

I've not used a Nokia for years. The last one I had was a 3510i which was blue and orange. What are they like these days?

Mark

31st October 2011, 12:32

Just the same...

Jag_Warrior

1st November 2011, 19:55

3DES Encryption on email traffic, and the ability to completely lock down the handset with centralised control from the Enterprise Server. Then there is MVS, which again, can be locked down to only allow VOIP calls on WiFi connections.

About a month ago, Lowe's (the U.S. home improvement chain) selected the iPhone for its sales associates (42,000 phones). And from what I've read, they have the ability to control the phones to their satisfaction - even to the point that if the phones are taken out of the store, they can be locked and will no longer work.

I'm not a technical enough person that I know how these various technologies really work. But it does seem that an increasing number of businesses are no longer just looking at RIM for secure mobile devices. Others are eating away at their enterprise market share, in addition to their slumping consumer market share. RIM allowed itself to become a one trick pony, and now other ponies are learning how to do what RIM has been doing (quite well), in addition to things that RIM is not very good at... like basic execution on new innovations (the Playbook still can't use the BBM system?).

intheway

4th November 2011, 10:15

ioan

9th November 2011, 21:02

They've learned one thing - make it look and feel fantastic. I think they've nailed that this time.

;) :up:

race aficionado

9th November 2011, 23:51

** Adobe giving up on mobile Flash **

interesting to say the least. . . . . .

Adobe says it now believes the alternative HTML 5 technology offers the "best solution" because it is "universally supported".

BBC News - Adobe abandons work on Flash plug-in for mobile devices (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15648899)

Jag_Warrior

10th November 2011, 01:14

** Adobe giving up on mobile Flash **

interesting to say the least. . . . . .

BBC News - Adobe abandons work on Flash plug-in for mobile devices (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15648899)

Well, ain't that a kick in the nads?! The one feature that the anti-Apple/Android/Windows 7 crowd went on and on and oooooon about... is being abandoned by its maker because it is what Steve Jobs said it was: a sluggish, unstable, battery drainer that isn't very secure. From what I've read, even the Ice Cream Sandwich version of Android has about as many issues running Flash as the previous versions... maybe a little better, but not much.

On Nokia's new WP7 phones, I don't think they're going to be available in the U.S. What's up with that? I thought they were making a big deal about taking on the iPhone and Android head-to-head? :confused:

And as if RIM didn't already have enough issues to deal with, Google announced today that they're dropping the Gmail app for Blackberries. I was thinking that RIMM shares might be attractive once they got down to the low 20's. But since the company has shown an almost complete inability to execute over the past few months, I don't know what the bottom is. Today, it lost about 4.5% when the market was only down about 3%, and closed over $1 below its book value at $18/share.

I'm personally hoping that RIM makes it. I think the market needs some hungry players to fight for 3rd place: RIM's QNX, HP's WebOS (if it's not completely dead already) and Windows Phone 7. In order to compete with Android and iOS, at least one of them would NEED to find something truly innovative. And that would be great for consumers. So I hope RIM hangs in there.

intheway

10th November 2011, 14:38

** Adobe giving up on mobile Flash **

interesting to say the least. . . . . .

Today is a great day. Hopefully this spurs a larger move away from Flash on the desktop too.

Mark

10th November 2011, 20:56

Indeed. Flash is a pain lets get rid of it ASAP.

Andrewmcm

11th November 2011, 12:16

I bet a certain Mr Jobs is laughing his head off somewhere.

Jag_Warrior

11th November 2011, 17:35

I bet a certain Mr Jobs is laughing his head off somewhere.

Perhaps that was the premonition that he had on his death bed, and that's why "Oh, wow! Oh, wow! Oh, wow!" were his last words. :)

Mark

11th November 2011, 20:35

Just did my first over the air iOS update and it didn't brick my phone or anything :D

GridGirl

11th November 2011, 22:28

I'm not sure if I like iO5. Ibby asked me why I'd bought a £2.50 baking app almost immediatly after I'd downloaded it the other day. I much prefered it when I tunes sent him the bill about a week later. :p

Mark

12th November 2011, 09:18

:D

Every time Karen downloads something it immediately appears on my home screen.

You getting a new phone? 3G is ancient!

Jag_Warrior

12th November 2011, 17:12

Just did my first over the air iOS update and it didn't brick my phone or anything :D

I haven't updated to iOS 5 because I read some stories about backups not working properly and data being lost. I'd really like to try 5, but I HAVE to make sure that the data within certain apps doesn't get wiped out. Is there any way to see what's been updated before beginning the update? How can I be sure that my data has been backed up??? And once I have iOS 5 installed, what restores my data within the various apps... the "restore" button?

I'm anxious to try Siri and some of the other features. But I don't want to have a HAL 9000 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc7xF17O-Ck&feature=related) moment along the way. Any help/advice/words of wisdom would be incredibly appreciated.

Andrewmcm

12th November 2011, 17:48

I had no trouble with the iOS 5 update. It wipes the phone, puts the new OS on it and then restores from a backup held in iTunes.

Mark

12th November 2011, 18:20

You won't get Siri unless you have an iPhone 4S.

Jag_Warrior

12th November 2011, 18:52

Well, I didn't know that. :(

I'll probably go ahead and update my ancient phone next year (10 years is a long time to have a phone, no?), so I guess I'll see what the iPhone X and iOS 6 are like next Fall.

Jag_Warrior

12th November 2011, 18:54

I had no trouble with the iOS 5 update. It wipes the phone, puts the new OS on it and then restores from a backup held in iTunes.

"Dave. I'm afraid, Dave. What are you doing, Dave? Stop. Please stop. Dave, please stop."

OK, I'll give this a shot tomorrow. But if it locks me out of the house, one of you needs to drop by before the temp. drops and I freeze to death.

race aficionado

12th November 2011, 22:35

You won't get Siri unless you have an iPhone 4S.

I've heard her interactions and it is pretty amazing. Not only will she answer your questions and give you directions but you can also have a conversation with her and the answer are hilarious.
They have programmed her with a sense of humor, with a sense of sarcasm . . .
It's pretty cool how this technology is advancing.

I will upgrade from my 3GS soon.

janneppi

13th November 2011, 08:47

Being a basic Nokia user I never bothered with the magical ecosystem BS, but if I ever need a new phone I might have to see whats out there.
One question that's been bugging me; whats the difference between an application and a software? I mean I've bought software for my phones, but apps, is it just a different name or is there a real differece?

Mark

13th November 2011, 11:04

App is just short for Application. And and Application is just Software.

ioan

13th November 2011, 15:05

App is just short for Application. And and Application is just Software.

Yep, it's all about the marketing.

janneppi

13th November 2011, 16:01

App is just short for Application. And and Application is just Software.
Thanks, so nothing new then. :)

BleAivano

13th November 2011, 17:24

Andrewmcm

13th November 2011, 21:08

Yes I find the word 'App' fairly abhorrent. Particularly when people use it in reference to software on a non-smartphone/tablet device.

ArrowsFA1

14th November 2011, 09:53

Yep, it's all about the marketing.
In the same way that in F1 a drivers' success is entirely due to the car not his talent :confused:

SGWilko

14th November 2011, 10:08

"Dave. I'm afraid, Dave. What are you doing, Dave? Stop. Please stop. Dave, please stop."

My God, it's full of stars!!!!

ioan

14th November 2011, 19:24

In the same way that in F1 a drivers' success is entirely due to the car not his talent :confused:

Was that supposed to be some smart analogy?! LOL

Andrewmcm

7th December 2011, 18:50

So I took the plunge on an iPad, primarily for use in my job in Higher Education. I can see how it will be useful in lectures and in other teaching sessions, and I've got a keen eye on the apps in this area. Wind Tunnel Pro is an excellent demonstration tool for those who are interested in CFD.

As far as personal use goes, I think it will become my low-powered bedroom TV. TVCathcup, Sky Go, BBC iPlayer, ITV Player and 4oD apps allow me to stream most televisual treats to my bedroom, with the justin.tv app allowing me to watch things in a slightly less legitimate way.

I'm interested to see how quickly I adopt it for use over traditional electronic communication methods.

race aficionado

7th December 2011, 20:09

t_paulet

7th January 2012, 08:57

worldwide free shipping for apple iphone ipad ipod accessories,its nice and cheap.

GridGirl

7th January 2012, 11:06

I'm getting a new iPhone 4S delivered on Tuesday and have free delivery already thanks. I paid £99 for my iPhone 33 months ago and should hopefully get about £40 cash back for it when it goes for recycling next week. Not a bad return by any standards. :)

Mark

7th January 2012, 14:56

Did you get the iPad too?

GridGirl

7th January 2012, 15:41

I shall be selling or recycling my old phone using Quidco but I don't expect to earn more than a couple of quid cash back due to the age of the phone. I didn't use any cash back sites when taking out my contract but did take advantage of the Orange Perks Scheme. Basically if your employer has more than 100 contracts/ numbers with them on a business tariff any employee of the company can get 25% discounted line rental for up to five friends and family if they take out a two year contract. It's worth looking into or asking nicely if you know anyone who's employers use Orange. My other half is on a similar friends and family contract on O2 but the line rental discount is only 20% but you get a discount on the phone as well.