Mobile phones & tablets thread [Archive] - Page 2

Jag_Warrior

23rd June 2010, 20:59

An enlarged iphone that you cannot use as a phone? Common!!
The point I am making here is that I can buy a small laptop for under $500 at the Post Office. So where is the value?

Mark, as I said before, I have no idea what a flash is.

Some people will definitely continue buying those $500 laptops while others (about 3 million so far) will buy iPads and various other tablet devices. I don't understand why people buy e-readers. I like to read... BOOKS (paper books!). It's all about choices. People just have more of them now.

As for why people do what they do when it comes to technology, you're probably asking the wrong guy. I'm a guy who is rolling with an 8 year old (personal) cellphone, don't know what Sudoku is, don't have a Twitter/FaceBook/MySpace account and will get mad if you send me a text message instead of calling me. But since I think buying jewelry might open up a can of worms (for me), I very well might buy "Jag Girl" an iPad for Christmas. She, along with her sister and brother-in-law, is a devoted Apple fan. I like the business model and the way they manage the brand, but I'm just a (happy as hell) shareholder. 3 million and counting! Go Steve, go!!! :bounce:

Mark

24th June 2010, 13:03

Well I've got my iPhone! First thoughts, confusing! I've been using Nokias for over 10 years now and got used to a way of doing things!

Mark

24th June 2010, 13:22

FFS Emails!!
How long have I been battling with various Nokia symbian devices which just can't get email to work properly at all.
I get my iPhone, put in a few details, and there y'are, it's working!

race aficionado

24th June 2010, 15:35

FFS Emails!!
How long have I been battling with various Nokia symbian devices which just can't get email to work properly at all.
I get my iPhone, put in a few details, and there y'are, it's working!

Bravo Mark!!!!
Which iPhone did you puchase?
:)

GridGirl

24th June 2010, 19:07

Dave B

25th June 2010, 12:35

I get emails on my Nokia no problem, have done for a while.

What really irks me about the i-experience is summed up by Valve's dilemma. A perfectly good website fails to render properly, yet you can go via iTunes and buy an app which replicates its function. Walled gardens go against everything the internet was designed for.

Want to check in for your flight online? Our website crashes but there's an app for that.
Want to browse The Guardian? Our website renders horribly but there's an app for that.

No - just sort out your websites so that everybody can use them, whether on a top of the range PC or a £50 pay as you go phone. :s

Dave B

25th June 2010, 12:36

PS Mark, any problems with reception on the iPhone you're Beta testing? :p

There have been a lot of issues reported with the antenna design of the latest model.

Daniel

25th June 2010, 13:58

Errr Dave, that's not a fault, it's a feature.

I agree with you regarding the closed walls argument. My e71 isn't perfect by a longshot, but it more than does the job at a lower price and in fact is better in some ways than the iPhone especially with regards to its qwerty keyboard.

Daniel

25th June 2010, 14:17

I also share your bemusement at people's email problems. I've never had problems with getting emails on my N95 and E71. GridGirl, you're probably getting the emails first on your phone because the email server is pushing the emails out to your phone as and when it needs to whereas your laptop is probably set to pull them every x amount of minutes. Pretty poor setup tbh and sadly one which we have here too.

mark, did you ever try email.nokiacom to set your emails up? As Dave and myself have said, it's doable if you know how.

Daniel

25th June 2010, 15:18

Mark

26th June 2010, 10:37

Mark

26th June 2010, 10:45

Yes I have seen the signal issues with my phone but I have yet to have it cause me any problems but we'll see. Epic fail on behalf of Apple for that one!

raybak

26th June 2010, 14:58

I'm still waiting for itable, just so I can read the news while having breakfast.

Ray

Valve Bounce

26th June 2010, 15:19

I'm still waiting for itable, just so I can read the news while having breakfast.

Ray

That device in CSI Miami is really impressive.

raybak

26th June 2010, 15:34

That device in CSI Miami is really impressive.

Yep that's the one I want, when does Apple bring it out? or is it ipad version 23.46?

Ray

Jag_Warrior

26th June 2010, 21:38

I'm still waiting for itable, just so I can read the news while having breakfast.

Ray

I'm hoping they put the iPhone OS in a 3D TV once they perfect 3D HD and get more programming in that format. HDTV (by itself) doesn't impress me all that much. But 3D HDTV + solid iOS making it fully & truly internet capable in one unit = I spend some money. :bounce:

Valve Bounce

27th June 2010, 04:07

I'm hoping they put the iPhone OS in a 3D TV once they perfect 3D HD and get more programming in that format. HDTV (by itself) doesn't impress me all that much. But 3D HDTV + solid iOS making it fully & truly internet capable in one unit = I spend some money. :bounce:

You want someone to telephone or e-mail you on your TV while you are watching a program?

Jag_Warrior

27th June 2010, 04:55

You want someone to telephone or e-mail you on your TV while you are watching a program?

Not really. Though that's already possible. My aunt has some kind of internet/phone/TV service that lets her know (on her TV) that she's got an incoming call. That feature can be turned off though. I think it's Verizon Fios, but I'm really not sure. I'm talking more about a fully internet capable 3D HDTV, backed by an easy to use, but solid OS. It's already possible to rig up a system that'll pretty much mimic what I'm thinking about. But 3D is still in its infancy right now. HDTV doesn't really "wow!" me at all. But I looked at a 3D set at Best Buy a few weeks back, and short of the dorky glasses... I'm looking forward to that tech being fully exploited. Can you imagine sitting there and feeling like Button, Hamilton and Schumacher are about to run you over?! :s mokin:

Daniel

27th June 2010, 10:53

Well can just comment on my own experience that things including email and wifi did not work properly
On my nokia but work first time on my iPhone and I know you're like. Oh you didn't set it up properly but I was configuring it for a year and it still did not work or in the case of the wifi dropped out every couple of minutes. Whereas with my iPhone it all works!

Well I did say I think your phone was faulty considering the issues you had with the GPS. You should have sent it in for repair rather than bearing with something which was faulty.

Jag_Warrior

6th July 2010, 01:06

Another one bites the dust? My buddy's wife just emailed me that the HP Slate is rumored to be dead on arrival. So of the major makers, does that just leave Dell to compete with the iPad later this year with a tablet?

I'm surprised (and rather sorry) to hear about HP possibly killing the Slate. I thought they might decide to use the newly acquired Palm OS in the device (instead of Windows 7), which might have made for a very interesting tablet.

Jag_Warrior

6th July 2010, 05:56

Finally some good news for "my kind":

Tablets Still Can't Beat the Book (http://www.pcworld.com/article/200491/reading_on_paper_is_faster_than_ibooks_on_the_ipad .html)

It will take you longer to read a book on an iPad or Kindle compared to the printed page, according to a recent study. Dr. Jakob Nielsen of the Nielsen Norman Group--a product development consultancy that is not associated with Nielsen, the metrics company--compared the reading times of 24 users on the Kindle 2, an iPad using the iBooks application, a PC monitor and good old fashioned paper. The study found that reading on an electronic tablet was up to 10.7 percent slower than reading a printed book. Despite the slower reading times, Nielsen found that users preferred reading books on a tablet device compared to the paper book. The PC monitor, meanwhile, was universally hated as a reading platform among all test subjects.

Overall, it took each user an average of 17 minutes and 20 seconds to read a story regardless of the platform and comprehension levels were virtually identical on all four reading formats.

However, Nielsen says the printed book was the clear winner in terms of speed. ( :) ) Users were reading 6.2 percent slower on an iPad compared to paper, and 10.7 percent slower on the Kindle 2. Nielsen did not provide any statistics on the reading time for the PC monitor.

Mark

6th July 2010, 08:45

MrJan

6th July 2010, 12:18

I'm a guy who is rolling with an 8 year old

I read that and nearly had a coronary :D An unfortunate place in the sentence for the end of the line to fall :laugh:

Mark and his e-mails is why the iPhone is popular, it may not be the best but it's the easiest and that's why the masses like it. I spent hours pricking about with my blackberry to get it working (gave up in the end). Eventually the thing broke anyway and, although I miss the browsing bit, I'm quite happy using my Nokia 3110c again. I'd still quite like an iPhone too but I don't text/call enough to warrant a monthly contract and the PAYG phones are silly prices.

What features does the iPhone have that the iPod touch lacks? Is it just the phoning thing or does 3G come into it? (I've heard the letters GPRS and EDGE also mentioned but that means nothing to me)

Mark

6th July 2010, 17:49

The iPhone can access the mobile network so can make calls and access the Internet via the mobile network. The touch can only use wifi.

Andrewmcm

6th July 2010, 22:57

Back at a PC and back on my high horse :p

I think this thread showcases exactly why people buy into the iPhone/iPad. Not because other devices are poor but because people have to deal with systems/devices which are poorly setup or badly specced. If I hadn't worked in places where the person next to me could send me an email and it was in my outlook inbox half a second later I'd find the idea that an email could get to my phone quicker than to my PC amazing.

And not everyone has a) your apparent technical proficiency and/or b) the time to be arsed to set things up properly. Apple hardware just works. There is no need to mess about with settings as the closed hardware prevents any non-standard stuff messing up software.

Say what you like about Apple's control of everything, but it serves a purpose. Their machines are reasonably idiot-proof, which is no doubt a small part of their appeal.

Valve Bounce

8th July 2010, 01:33

Just ask J4MIE what he thinks of the Dell!

Hi J4MIE, what do you think of the DELL?

By the way, there is an article in today's The Australian about Jailbreaking the Ipad, and the instructions are on youtube. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/hackers-jailbreaking-ipads-for-underground-apps/story-e6frg6nf-1225889144280

ENJOY :D

Daniel

8th July 2010, 07:45

And not everyone has a) your apparent technical proficiency and/or b) the time to be arsed to set things up properly. Apple hardware just works. There is no need to mess about with settings as the closed hardware prevents any non-standard stuff messing up software.

Say what you like about Apple's control of everything, but it serves a purpose. Their machines are reasonably idiot-proof, which is no doubt a small part of their appeal.

Well perhaps I just like a machine that has an endless list of capabilities. If my contract gets extended I'm going to build myself a new PC which will mop the floor with any Mac you can put against it aside from perhaps the top of the range dual processor one..... all for about a third to half the price of what Apple will charge.

Essentially what you're saying is that you can be an idiot and own an Apple product, what I say is "Don't be an idiot, buy an xyz product, save yourself hundreds of pounds and just rtfm or have a look on the internet, the solutions are all there"

GridGirl

8th July 2010, 08:02

But those idiots who will happily spend money on buying an off the shelf product most probably have no idea and no desire to build their own pc. I quite happily include myself as an idiot who could learn off the net how to do it but doesn't want to as there are more interesting things that I would rather be doing. My 10 year old pc and 4 year old laptop probably are rubbish and are considered pre-historic but they work ok for my requirements. When they break I could get Ibby to fix them for me but more than likely I wont bother.

I suppose I'm a slave to consumerism because I have other hobbies to fill my time and a nice disposable income but I'm happy to be an idiot. :D :p :D

Daniel

8th July 2010, 08:52

That's not what I said at all.

I'm saying that if you can't get one of the competitors products to work, a simple search on the net will yield the results and save you hundreds of pounds.

I have hobbies to fill my time with, I just don't see the point in wasting hundreds of pounds giving money to some freaking egotistical maniac in a turtleneck rather than just doing it myself.

You seem to have this idea that I can't afford anything or that I'm too cheap to spend money on something decent. That's not the case at all. If buying an Apple product was actually going to save me tens of hours I'd get it but that's simply not the way it is.

airshifter

8th July 2010, 22:19

I'm saying that if you can't get one of the competitors products to work, a simple search on the net will yield the results and save you hundreds of pounds.

I have hobbies to fill my time with, I just don't see the point in wasting hundreds of pounds giving money to some freaking egotistical maniac in a turtleneck rather than just doing it myself.

You seem to have this idea that I can't afford anything or that I'm too cheap to spend money on something decent. That's not the case at all. If buying an Apple product was actually going to save me tens of hours I'd get it but that's simply not the way it is.

But that same thing could be said of many, many markets and companies. Some would argue that it's pointless and stupid to use and Intel CPU and a Microsoft operating system when you can get products that work just as good for less money and some research.

You can rebuild your own car engine vs buying a new car as well. How do you like the Fiat? Was the salesman an egotistical maniac?

Andrewmcm

8th July 2010, 22:21

Well perhaps I just like a machine that has an endless list of capabilities. If my contract gets extended I'm going to build myself a new PC which will mop the floor with any Mac you can put against it aside from perhaps the top of the range dual processor one..... all for about a third to half the price of what Apple will charge.

Essentially what you're saying is that you can be an idiot and own an Apple product, what I say is "Don't be an idiot, buy an xyz product, save yourself hundreds of pounds and just rtfm or have a look on the internet, the solutions are all there"

Endless list of capabilities? You should have a Linux system then. Or something that's based on Linux/Unix. Like ubuntu, openSuse, or, wait for it, Mac OS.....

Just out of interest, when was the last time you used a non-Windows based computer? And I include Linux in that as well as Mac.

Daniel

8th July 2010, 23:35

Endless list of capabilities? You should have a Linux system then. Or something that's based on Linux/Unix. Like ubuntu, openSuse, or, wait for it, Mac OS.....

Just out of interest, when was the last time you used a non-Windows based computer? And I include Linux in that as well as Mac.
Christmas was the last time I used a non-Windows PC :p It locked up on me ;)

Actually scratch that.... I use linux most days when I use the imagine software we run at work.

Daniel

9th July 2010, 00:02

But that same thing could be said of many, many markets and companies. Some would argue that it's pointless and stupid to use and Intel CPU and a Microsoft operating system when you can get products that work just as good for less money and some research.

You can rebuild your own car engine vs buying a new car as well. How do you like the Fiat? Was the salesman an egotistical maniac?

The salesman was quite nice and down to earth ;) To be fair he could be as we had pretty much decided to get the car already :p

If non-Microsoft stuff works so well why is it not more widely used? The fact of the matter is that Microsoft offers the best solution for businesses. Microsoft generally patch vulnerabilities quickly, microsoft have their own standards for training and certification, their software is supported for long periods (XP launched in 2001 and will be supported till 2014 and support for 2000 is only just finishing), the total cost of ownership is low and there's an app for just about everything!

Personally I actually think XP was a bag of crap. It started off rubbish and was only useable and secure from SP2 onwards and both Vista and 7 are far better nowadays.

I won't bring Intel into it because tbh at the moment whether you buy Intel or AMD you'll get a decent PC although my next CPU will probably be an i7 950 (they're cutting the price by about 50% at the end of August :) ) unless they release a decently priced hexa core CPU.

Jag_Warrior

9th July 2010, 02:55

Well perhaps I just like a machine that has an endless list of capabilities.

Oh, cool! Welcome to the Apple family, my brother! BestBuy has a sale on Apple iMacs and MacBook Pros now. But I'm going to try to get mine through my buddy's son next year. College kids get an extra discount. Let me know when you're ready for the computer that'll run all the operating systems (Mac OS, Windows, Linux, etc.) and I'll get you hooked up too! I knew you'd come around.

:D

Mark

9th July 2010, 09:25

Dave B

9th July 2010, 09:58

I won't be buying an iPhone for a similar reason. It does have lots of development beind it, that's true, but all by one company. Android has half a dozen (so far) manufacturers integrating into their products, and its open attitude to developers will almost certainly see the app store equal if not better Apple's before long. Plus there's no jumping through hoops to get your app approved only to find out that Jobs has remotely killed it six months down the line.

Sadly for Microsoft I forsee Windows becoming a niche OS on mobile devices. Symbian will probably wither and die through lack of support, leaving Android and iOS to fight it out. Having only one (telephphone) product on the market at any one time will hinder Apple in my opinion.

Mark

9th July 2010, 10:09

I won't be buying an iPhone for a similar reason. It does have lots of development beind it, that's true, but all by one company.

By development I was referring to the application developers, of which there are a great many!

If the Android app store should prove to be superior next time I come to buy a phone I will have no issues switching over to them, but at the moment at least, it's Apple who has the upper hand.

Daniel

9th July 2010, 10:25

Well I think windows phone 7 will be a sink or swim moment for Microsoft. It has the opportunity to become the default business phone if they do things right. My contract conveniently expires around launch time for Windows Phone 7. If it's not good I can certainly see myself getting an Android phone. Looking at the demo's though it does look pretty slick.

I don't see how Apple has the upper hand. Android has craploads of apps. Apps were really the only thing that made the iPhone popular and now that app stores aren't an apple only thing the iPhone is no longer special, just expensive.

What puzzles me is why Nokia persist with Symbian.....

JW, I will never have a Mac ;) I can afford one but it's so against everything I stand for it's not funny.

odykas

9th July 2010, 10:35

JW, I will never have a Mac ;)

I will never pay to get a Mac ;) :p :

Mark

9th July 2010, 10:36

I don't see how Apple has the upper hand. Android has craploads of apps. Apps were really the only thing that made the iPhone popular and now that app stores aren't an apple only thing the iPhone is no longer special, just expensive.

Perhaps, but there are still many apps which are iPhone only, that is changing, of course.

What puzzles me is why Nokia persist with Symbian.....

They made a mistake in buying it IMO! For it's time, it was good, excellent even. But it's just too old now and needs to be let go. Nokia is working on it's own Linux based OS as a replacement which is a good idea.

GridGirl

9th July 2010, 10:50

JW, I will never have a Mac ;) I can afford one but it's so against everything I stand for it's not funny.

You were also against buying new cars until you bought one yourself. :p Never say never. ;)

Daniel

9th July 2010, 12:11

Well I wasn't expecting my 406 to die and for scrappage to come in ;)

GridGirl

9th July 2010, 12:51

The world isn't so black and white when you needs suit. You didn't need scrappage to save £2k though. :p What happened to your iPod anyway. Apple isn't that evil if you purchased one of those when you could have just got an mp3.

Daniel

9th July 2010, 13:38

The world isn't so black and white when you needs suit. You didn't need scrappage to save £2k though. :p

FFS this again? :confused: You always know everything don't you? The MAXIMUM discount Fiat were giving on the 500 prior to scrappage was £400. That is it, no more than that and I know this because I know people who work in Fiat dealerships from a forum I post on. It's simple supply and demand. Fiat were selling pretty much every 500 they had in the country within days of it landing in Bristol and used cars were the same as well so why would they offer a discount to secure a sale with me when someone else will just come and buy it for full price anyway. They've only this year included it in the employee discount scheme as well.

Can we not have this silly little argument again because you couldn't be more wrong.

Jag_Warrior

9th July 2010, 16:37

I will never pay to get a Mac ;) :p :

Fell off the back of a truck, eh? I'll meet you in the parking lot behind the strip club. I'm looking for a MacBook Pro, newer model with the Intel. Daniel wants an iMac.

I'll flash my headlights twice. Cash & carry, right?

:D

race aficionado

9th July 2010, 17:51

This comment of mine comes from no where but - in my life experience I have had many say to me: "I use to have a PC and now I have a MAC, I will never go back!"
I have never heard anybody tell me: "I use to have a MAC and now I have a PC, I will never go back!"

Daniel many have probably heard otherwise :p :

But this is my experience.
:s mokin:

Valve Bounce

10th July 2010, 02:16

I will never pay to get a Mac ;) :p :

Well, if you go the other way, you could end up behind bars. :rolleyes:

airshifter

10th July 2010, 02:43

But don't you see that the same arguments you use against people buying Apple products and Macs you can use against windows when you have Linux distros available for free. And you can do lots of things with them by searching online to find out how to do them!

For me I didn't buy an iPhone because I thought it looked cool or I wanted to impress anyone. I bought it for the same reason people buy Windows, because it has the most applications and the most development effort behind it and as a result I can use it for more things.

Exactly my point. People could almost always save money by doing some research and using alternative products, but rarely do. Most of us buy these things (along with cars, homes, boats, etc) out of personal wants rather than needs. Being that it's usually more a want than need personal choice and budget dictate the purchase, not the cheapest way to point X.

Daniel

10th July 2010, 07:36

odykas

12th July 2010, 18:40

Fell off the back of a truck, eh? I'll meet you in the parking lot behind the strip club. I'm looking for a MacBook Pro, newer model with the Intel. Daniel wants an iMac.

I'll flash my headlights twice. Cash & carry, right?

:D

:laugh:

I only have a humble MacBook Pro that my company provided.
I didn't have any other option apart from Mac http://www.blokessportbike.com/images/smilies/dunno.gif

MrJan

14th July 2010, 16:28

I just made the mistake of impulse buying an iPhone on eBay for more money than anyone should actually spend on a phone, especially when that someone doesn't really use their phone. Still I like gadgets :D

GridGirl

14th July 2010, 19:03

Mr Jan Neo, its people like you who I'll be liking next month when I sell mine next month. ;-) :D

Mark

15th July 2010, 08:26

Mr Jan Neo, its people like you who I'll be liking next month when I sell mine next month. ;-) :D

Getting a '4' then? :D

GridGirl

15th July 2010, 13:13

I was always going to as my contract is up next month and my old 3G is qite a brick compared to the 3GS anyway. :) Although I might have to delay it untill September now I have a rather large Next bill to pay. ;)

Mark

15th July 2010, 13:15

I was always going to as my contract is up next month and my old 3G is qite a brick compared to the 3GS anyway. :)

You'll like the iPhone 4 then, speedy! And then there's the screen!

Although I might have to delay it untill September now I have a rather large Next bill to pay. ;)

Couple of hundred quid was it? :p

Dave B

15th July 2010, 15:20

GridGirl

15th July 2010, 17:57

The upgrade last month on my 3G was fine. The other half has a 3GS which it did mess up though. It freezes all the time and crashes when he makes calls which cuts him off from who ever he us speaking too and it's doesn't really work with the bluetooth on his car anymore. We went cycling in Nottingham last weekend and on a 100 mile round trip it kept beeping as it connected and disconnected which in the same process turns off the stereo. A tad annoying to say the least.

Thanks for the advice Dave. :)

Mark

15th July 2010, 19:00

Tbh the signal drop off is noticeable but no big deal as this phone is such a huge upgrade compared with my Nokia.

Daniel

15th July 2010, 23:18

Hang fire until you see what Friday's press conference brings - rumours of a recall are almost certainly wide of the mark but it'll be interesting to see what Apple have to say about the reception issues, as well as the software upgrade that has apparently messed up a lot of older models.

I still don't get why people are buying stuff from this company

Post something on their forums and they'll just delete your thread.

http://www.dailytech.com/UPDATE+Consumer+Reports+Drops+iPhone+4+Recommendat ion+Apple+Deletes+Discussion+Threads+/article19013.htm

Seriously, you'd probably be better off ethically to send your money to Zimbabwe c/- Bob

Daniel

15th July 2010, 23:25

I smell a class action lawsuit over this

http://www.dailytech.com/UPDATE+Engineer+Warned+Jobs+of+iPhone+4+Antenna+Is sues+a+Year+Ago+iOS+401+Now+Available/article19049.htm

I really really would love it if this blows up and becomes a massive thing. It seems that Stevie's marketing skills have finally got in the way of designing a good product and in a big way.

Dave B

16th July 2010, 09:11

"It's Apple's Vista", said Microsoft's chief operating officer.

It's not so much that Apple released a flaky product onto the market, most companies produce a lemon now and again. It's the head in the sand attitude which first denied a problem, then saw Jobs tell users "don't hold it like that" (FFS), then had to admit that the signal bars were offset to show an unrealistically high signal, then tried to sell users a $25 bumper which cost $1 to produce, and now finally calls a press conference once the share price starts to dip because an influential consumer group refused to recommend their flagship product.

Apple make some awesome kit, but their "we know best" attitude to their customers may have finally bitten them on the backside.

It's taken them two years to admit there was a problem with a batch of Time Machines, for goodness sake.

MrJan

16th July 2010, 09:27

Tbh the signal drop off is noticeable but no big deal unless you're Daniel, in which case the moon just exploded and half the world ended

;) :p :

Daniel

16th July 2010, 09:59

well at least my phone can make phonecalls without dropping them because I choose to hold the phone in a different way.

MrJan

16th July 2010, 10:05

well at least my phone can make phonecalls without dropping them because I choose to hold the phone in a different way.

You're lucky then ;) Seriously though, my Nokia at work makes a fuss if I move slightly. The other day it also wouldn't receive calls when it was in my pocket, even though I was sitting in exactly the same place as usual. I spent the whole of one day having to use my personal phone (a slightly older and inferior Nokia) to receive calls. Strangely the next day the work phone was working fine.

AndyRAC

16th July 2010, 12:45

Daniel

16th July 2010, 13:32

I like my ipod nono and i-touch – however, I also have a MacBook, and while I’m sure it’s great, I’ve had enough of it, I’m sorry, I just prefer the Windows system (I’m sure the purists/geeks will disagree). Time for a new PC methinks.

Welcome back :) If you want any help choosing a spec feel free to PM me. You can really get some kickarse PC's these days for not much with the prices of components going down and the power going up at the same time :) My next upgrade is probably going to cost me 600-800 pounds but it's really going to be OMGWTFBBQ quick :)

Daniel

16th July 2010, 18:25

Live coverage of the Apple press conference regarding the issues with the antenna and of course rather than just admitting fault Steve is saying that all phone have this issue. What a crock, just admit that it was a daft move not to insulate the antenna on the iPhone4 and be done with it.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/16/live-from-apples-iphone-4-press-conference/

race aficionado

17th July 2010, 05:13

Jag_Warrior

17th July 2010, 05:49

I like my ipod nono and i-touch – however, I also have a MacBook, and while I’m sure it’s great, I’ve had enough of it, I’m sorry, I just prefer the Windows system (I’m sure the purists/geeks will disagree). Time for a new PC methinks.

If you have one of the newer MacBooks, why not just get a copy of Windows XP or 7 and load it on your MacBook? That's my plan.

Dave B

17th July 2010, 09:52

Jobs' presentation was full of distorted statistics.

Only 0.55% of people complained, apparently, a tiny amount of disatisfied customers. Erm, that's the percentage who phoned Apple - and who does that in this day and age?

Then he demonstrated that a Blackberry can drop signal bars - but it's already been demonstrated that signal bars alone are a hopeless way of measuring performance. Indeed Apple themselves had to release a software update to correct the way their own signal bars were displayed. Independent tests showed that the iPhone 4 was by far the worst offender of any smartphone.

And the statistic from AT&T about dropped calls only applied to voice calls - when a lot of people have been complaining about dropped or slow data connections and no figures were given.

Again, none of this is particularly a problem, but it's been handled so badly in an attempt to fudge the issue. All those nauseating slides and talk about how much Apple "love" every customer, when clearly they hold them in contempt.

The solution: a free case - not even a nice Apple branded one - which from my time in managing phone stores I'll tell you certainly costs less than $1 to manufacture, which really shouldn't be necessary.

Daniel

18th July 2010, 12:00

I own an iPhone 3GS - I didn't by the 3G waiting for the next version as to avoid the sometimes unavoidable technical quirks that come with new technology.

I use this "technique' with every bit of computer technology that I own.

I wont buy a new generation iPhone 4 because of the same reasons - I'll wait for the next installment that will come next summer.

As for the current antenna issue, Steve Jobs is tackling it in what I think is a very appropriate and responsible way.

This is the latest out of the iPhone camp:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/16/AR2010071606132.html

Sorry Daniel, the empire is not crashing down.
;)

:s mokin:

What a load of crap.

Apple have built a product which is clearly and obviously flawed and they should recall it.

Nokia and RIM have fired shots back at Apple
http://www.dailytech.com/Nokia+RIM+Return+Fire+After+Apples+iPhone+4+Antenn agate+Driveby/article19067.htm

Nokia said this

Antenna design is a complex subject and has been a core competence at Nokia for decades, across hundreds of phone models. Nokia was the pioneer in internal antennas; the Nokia 8810, launched in 1998, was the first commercial phone with this feature. Nokia has invested thousands of man hours in studying human behavior, including how people hold their phones for calls, music playing, web browsing and so on. As you would expect from a company focused on connecting people, we prioritize antenna performance over physical design if they are ever in conflict. In general, antenna performance of a mobile device/phone may be affected with a tight grip, depending on how the device is held. That’s why Nokia designs our phones to ensure acceptable performance in all real life cases, for example when the phone is held in either hand. Nokia has invested thousands of man hours in studying how people hold their phones and allows for this in designs, for example by having antennas both at the top and bottom of the phone and by careful selection of materials and their use in the mechanical design.

Funny how Nokia who aren't regarded as designmeisters like Apple, actually take the time to look how people will hold their phones and design their phones appropriately. What a load of ****. Apple have designed a product which is fundamentally faulty and rather than just admit it they've said that everyone has the same problem when clearly they don't. I know of 2 people at work who had iPhones and have recently bought other phones now that their contracts are up purely because of the way Apple has lied about this issue. No one likes a bad product, but mistakes can and do happen and what really matters to people is how the company takes responsibility for its mistakes and Apple hasn't done that.

The two antennae get shorted together when you hold the phone which causes the signal to DIE. You can bang on about how Apple cares about its customers because it wants to give them a crappy $1 piece of plastic to make up for bad design, you can try and make it sound like this problem is widespread but at the end of the day the iPhone 4 drops its signal when you HOLD it. When you HOLD it ffs? It's a handheld device for petes sake!

The Empire won't crumble, you're right, because like all religions people don't want to criticise their messiah or their god because having something to believe in makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

As always I'll be sticking with my Nokia's (or if Windows Phone 7 is good, an HTC) and homebuilt PC's despite the fact that they lack the supposed cool factor and faux magic that having a snake oil salesman like Jobs launching them onto unsuspecting saps give them.

Dave B

18th July 2010, 13:01

...or if Windows Phone 7 is good...

It's not looking positive:

The as-yet unreleased Windows Phone 7 is a "waste of time and money", a "disaster" that Microsoft should kill as soon as possible. So says Galen Gruman of Infoworld, who has watched an in-depth demonstration of the new phone software at Microsoft's Worldwide Partners Conference which has been going on all week at the company's headquarters in Redmond, Washington.

:s

Source and full story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/jul/16/windows-phone-7-disaster-claim

Mark

19th July 2010, 08:36

The two antennae get shorted together when you hold the phone which causes the signal to DIE.

I don't deny it's an issue, but you're being a tad over dramatic here? If you hold the phone the signal goes down, but it's not like it instantly disappears completely the second you hold it in your hand.

Would I like it if it didn't to that? Yes! Am I going to ditch my iPhone and get a different model, No way!

Mark

19th July 2010, 08:37

It's not looking positive:

:s

Source and full story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/jul/16/windows-phone-7-disaster-claim

That's disappointing... While they've had their issues, mostly due to poor hardware design, I've always been a fan of Window Mobile based phones and was hoping this would be a serious contender.

It does seem as though the design is rather strange, although it would be good to have something which isn't just a straight iPhone copy in terms of the UI. But there is a reason there are so many copies out there, in that it works! Of course I must point out at this point that the core of the iPhone UI, namely the apps list etc is itself directly lifted from Symbian!

Daniel

19th July 2010, 09:31

Strange, I've heard a lot of good stuff about windows phone 7. I'm still going to wait and see. I would be disappointed if the best replacement for my e71 was an e72.......

Mark, it's a major flaw. Would you be happy if you cars engine cut out due to bad design if you touched the indicator stalk whilst touching the horn? It's just fundamental bad design on a handheld product and the least apple could do is admit to making a mistake rather than pretending everyone has the same issue.

MrJan

19th July 2010, 09:40

Mark, it's a major flaw. Would you be happy if you cars engine cut out due to bad design if you touched the indicator stalk whilst touching the horn? It's just fundamental bad design on a handheld product and the least apple could do is admit to making a mistake rather than pretending everyone has the same issue.

I agree that it's a shocking flaw to have and has been dealt with terribly, but it's not like Apple are the only ones guilty of this sort of thing.

You moan and moan about Apple stuff, e.g not having Flash (which is ridiculous and limits their products a lot) but Microsoft have done similar things. The xBox 360 has only just been released with inbuilt wireless, the console will probably be on it's way out in a few years and not having wireless for so long is awful. Microsoft also make you pay for Live subscription (which is nearly impossible to cancel too) and consoles were ruined by RROD for ages (possibly still are?)

Besides which I read somewhere that the problem largely affects left-handed people so it's only really a problem for freaks :D :p :

AndyRAC

19th July 2010, 09:48

I agree that it's a shocking flaw to have and has been dealt with terribly, but it's not like Apple are the only ones guilty of this sort of thing.

You moan and moan about Apple stuff, e.g not having Flash (which is ridiculous and limits their products a lot) but Microsoft have done similar things. The xBox 360 has only just been released with inbuilt wireless, the console will probably be on it's way out in a few years and not having wireless for so long is awful. Microsoft also make you pay for Live subscription (which is nearly impossible to cancel too) and consoles were ruined by RROD for ages (possibly still are?)

Besides which I read somewhere that the problem largely affects left-handed people so it's only really a problem for freaks :D :p :

Freaks, hey!! I was told that left handers are the Master race...... ;)

Mark

19th July 2010, 13:16

Besides which I read somewhere that the problem largely affects left-handed people so it's only really a problem for freaks :D :p :

I'm having to make calls holding the phone in my right hand, it's not natural :p

Mark

19th July 2010, 13:16

Mark, it's a major flaw.

Agreed. But you are saying that if you merely touch the phone the signal immediately dies. I can tell you as someone who uses an iPhone 4 every day, that's wide of the mark.

MrJan

19th July 2010, 13:44

Agreed. But you are saying that if you merely touch the phone the signal immediately dies. I can tell you as someone who uses an iPhone 4 every day, that's wide of the mark.

Don't let personal experience get in the way of the facts, Mark ;) :p :

Mark

19th July 2010, 14:55

Strange, I've heard a lot of good stuff about windows phone 7. I'm still going to wait and see. I would be disappointed if the best replacement for my e71 was an e72.......

http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/07/19/pre-review-preview-windows-phone-7-2/

That gives a mostly positive review. There's still a lot of work for Microsoft to do, however.

I'm not one of those people who buys an iPhone and then thinks it's the most perfect thing ever and will never buy anything else, I'd be happy if my next phone is a WM7 or Android phone.

race aficionado

19th July 2010, 16:37

Don't let personal experience get in the way of the facts, Mark ;) :p :

I like that!
:up:

Roamy

19th July 2010, 18:52

http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/01/best-buy-iphone-4-evo-4g/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo

Mark

19th July 2010, 19:21

Very funny video about the iPhone. Watch the rebuttal video too that should come up in the related videos
section.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg&feature=youtube_gdata

Jag_Warrior

20th July 2010, 18:46

What a load of crap.

Apple have built a product which is clearly and obviously flawed and they should recall it.

Aren't they offering to give buyers their money back? If people aren't happy with the product, all they have to do is take it back. In a recall situation, you may or may not get a refund.

Mark

21st July 2010, 13:32

There was an interesting piece on the Today programme this morning (around 6:22am if you want to check iPlayer). It interviewed a iPhone app developer, who was doing it for a living.

He was saying that he doesn't particularly care what platform his apps end up on. But you have to consider that Apple holds around an 80% market share for apps. Plus the important fact that you're basically writing for only one set of hardware i.e. the iPhone and older versions of same. But with Android there are currently around 60 different handsets on the market and getting your app to work with all of them, or even a decent subset of them is much more difficult.

So google have a challenge on their hands to presuade software developers that their platform is the way to go. However it's not impossible, Microsoft managed to conqueor the desktop market while getting other people to manufacturer a wide range of different hardware.

Daniel

21st July 2010, 18:03

Dave B

21st July 2010, 19:09

They'll have learned that from Vista, which in its early days was often bundled with hideously slow PCs, leading people to wrongly believe the OS was sluggish.

AndyRAC

21st July 2010, 22:57

I'm thinking of selling my MacBook, am I mad? I'm told I am....

Daniel

21st July 2010, 23:00

They'll have learned that from Vista, which in its early days was often bundled with hideously slow PCs, leading people to wrongly believe the OS was sluggish.
Yeah. Tbh you'd have to try pretty hard these days to buy a PC that wasn't capable of running Vista or 7 well. We shall see though :) I do wonder if Microsoft are just going to can Windows Phone 7 like they have so many promising things recently. RIP Courier :(

Mark

22nd July 2010, 08:34

Yeah. Tbh you'd have to try pretty hard these days to buy a PC that wasn't capable of running Vista or 7 well. We shall see though :) I do wonder if Microsoft are just going to can Windows Phone 7 like they have so many promising things recently. RIP Courier :(

But didn't they can their other phones so that they could concentrate on WM7?

Daniel

22nd July 2010, 10:42

Yes. But who knows what they're thinkin or what they're going to do.

Mark

22nd July 2010, 13:57

Nokia's N8 looks like it might be interesting, and if I hadn't been put right off Nokia's by the N97 I might have been looking at getting one of these. But the fact remains that it still uses Symbian and looks like a poor imitation of the iPhone -- of course there are many ways in which it is superior!

But they do seem to have pushed out another iPhone clone which doesn't quite match up,, whereas what they should be doing is releasing something so extraordinary it makes the iPhone look stupid! But I can't see that happening any time soon.

Mark

23rd July 2010, 11:13

Article on the BBC about the current smartphone wars http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/rorycellanjones/2010/07/smartphones_the_battle_for_min.html

Daniel

23rd July 2010, 12:54

Personaly I'm not going to buy an N8. My N95 was OK but all the N series devices seem to be half baked and just seem to play the "more memory, more MP in the camera sensor to suck in people who think more is better" game....

When I buy a phone I want substance and not flashyness and my E71 is exactly that. It does email well, it does texting well, it does phonecalls well, it's got a decent facebook app too, it interfaces with my car well and it's also bloody well put together unlike the Blackberrys that people complain about here at work! To me these features are more important than a flashy screen and apps which to be fair most people probably wouldn't miss if they weren't there. Other than the fact that I've scratched the screen up a little in the last couple of months and the battery is not as strong as when it's new I'd happily continue on with my E71 :)

Mark

26th July 2010, 09:47

A good read about the current situation at Nokia http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/22/nokia_manifesto_risku/

Jag_Warrior

26th July 2010, 19:32

DexDexter

26th July 2010, 20:00

I don't really follow Nokia, but I saw a headline last week on Bloomberg that Nokia's CEO was in danger of being fired. Apparently investors aren't happy that profits are not what they should be based on the volumes.

Like I said, I don't follow Nokia. But is Nokia beginning to suffer the same fate as Sony did several years ago: market leader with big volumes, and then they get lazy and fall behind?

Nokia's problem seems to be the North American market, they've lost a lot of market share there. I don't think they are lazy, their phones have features like no other but Iphone etc. are easier to use. My N97 Mini, for example, is an excellent phone but it's not that easy to use it if you don't know what you're doing.

DonJippo

26th July 2010, 20:06

A good read about the current situation at Nokia http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/22/nokia_manifesto_risku/

And it's all so true what Risku is writing about Nokia :dozey:

Mark

2nd September 2010, 11:55

Samsung has come out with what is the iPad's first realistic competitor and sensibly it uses the Android operating system.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11163687

Mark

3rd September 2010, 13:40

Apple have just released new versions of the iPod touch, iPod Nano and iPod Shuffle.

The touch, unsurprisingly looks just like the iPhone 4 except it's got a back more reminiscent of the 3GS. It also has a 64GB version but at any eye wateringly expensive £329. The 8GB version is £189 - still expensive when you compare it to the traditional iPods, I paid £140 for Karens 80GB unit! But of course it's basically an iPhone 4 without a phone, so it's much more than a music player.

The iPod Nano now has a touch screen too - £160 for the 16GB version
And the new shuffle is £40 for 2GB.

Jag_Warrior

3rd September 2010, 19:52

I've been wanting one of these devices for a long while. When rumors of a tablet began surfacing last year, I waited to see what that was about. Plus I really wanted/needed a camera. Now with the 4th gen iPod Touch, Apple has met all of my needs. It has a rear facing camera... not a great one, but I won't be taking art photos with it anyway. And someone told me that there is some sort of Skype app where you can use your own phone number for about $15/month over WiFi. It would be nice if you could buy a wireless plan, but most everywhere I'll be has free wireless, so no big deal. So yeah, you basically have an iPhone 4 (only thinner!), but without the $100+ monthly fees to AT&T (which is horrible in my area).

I am very happy. This is great news! I was going to order one through the Apple store. But I got an alert from Amazon that they are selling the new one for $383.99 - Apple is selling theirs (engraved) for $399 and I believe I'd have to pay tax if I order from Apple.

Hey Mark, £329 is about $507. :eek: Is there something different about the model you get in the UK?

Mark

4th September 2010, 09:08

No. It's always been the case that we pay more for everything in the UK.

odykas

7th September 2010, 12:20

Even $399 for iPad is a daylight robbery imho :D

Jag_Warrior

7th September 2010, 16:22

No. It's always been the case that we pay more for everything in the UK.

Something I'm curious about: what would happen if you ordered an iPod Touch from Amazon's U.S. site?

donKey jote

7th September 2010, 19:46

Mark

8th September 2010, 10:56

Something I'm curious about: what would happen if you ordered an iPod Touch from Amazon's U.S. site?

You'd have to pay UK VAT (sales tax) on it when it's imported into the UK.

Jag_Warrior

8th September 2010, 19:45

You'd have to pay UK VAT (sales tax) on it when it's imported into the UK.

They get you one way or another, eh? That's one of the reasons that I ordered from Amazon and not the Apple site or Best Buy: state sales tax - if we had a national sales tax, they'd have me too. Amazon (for some reason) is selling the Touch cheaper than most anyone else, but they also don't charge sales tax in my state. Altogether I saved about $35 (8% +/-), what with the cheaper price, free shipping and no sales tax.

Another question: if you bought a "used" (actually new) product through a private seller on Ebay and they shipped it directly to you, are you supposed to declare it to a tax body and pony up some pounds for the VAT? And if you don't, are you technically breaking the law?

Lousada

8th September 2010, 21:05

Another question: if you bought a "used" (actually new) product through a private seller on Ebay and they shipped it directly to you, are you supposed to declare it to a tax body and pony up some pounds for the VAT? And if you don't, are you technically breaking the law?

If you import a good into the EU, you have to pay VAT.

Mark

9th September 2010, 07:29

Another question: if you bought a "used" (actually new) product through a private seller on Ebay and they shipped it directly to you, are you supposed to declare it to a tax body and pony up some pounds for the VAT? And if you don't, are you technically breaking the law?

I think technically yes. But the strange thing is that if you'd bought the same item in the UK from someone who turns over less than £50,000 a year, then no VAT is payable!

Lousada

9th September 2010, 10:12

I think technically yes. But the strange thing is that if you'd bought the same item in the UK from someone who turns over less than £50,000 a year, then no VAT is payable!

That is not strictly true of course, since the VAT is already paid by the person you buy it from. The only VAT you save is that on the profit margin of your seller.

Jag_Warrior

19th September 2010, 05:26

I don't really follow Nokia, but I saw a headline last week on Bloomberg that Nokia's CEO was in danger of being fired. Apparently investors aren't happy that profits are not what they should be based on the volumes.

Like I said, I don't follow Nokia. But is Nokia beginning to suffer the same fate as Sony did several years ago: market leader with big volumes, and then they get lazy and fall behind?

Looks like Bloomberg was right on the money... almost two months prior to the eventual firing of CEO Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo. Now Nokia gets its first (I believe) non-Finnish CEO: ex-Microsoft President, Stephen Elop. Wonder what he'll do to get the operating margins back up, along with the stock price?

DonJippo

19th September 2010, 10:26

Looks like Bloomberg was right on the money... almost two months prior to the eventual firing of CEO Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo. Now Nokia gets its first (I believe) non-Finnish CEO: ex-Microsoft President, Stephen Elop. Wonder what he'll do to get the operating margins back up, along with the stock price?

Pity that they got another engineer type of guy when they really were in need of an innovator who has finger on the pulse... Nokia needs to start listen more what consumers want and not do phones for engineers.

Jag_Warrior

25th September 2010, 22:17

The iPad becomes the the highest-scoring product Apple has, and therefore the highest-scoring product the American Consumer Product Survey has ever tracked. (http://www.cnbc.com/id/39290945)

Big news for Apple and Apple investors: The iPad is the highest-scoring product that a leading consumer satisfaction index has ever tracked.

Mark

11th October 2010, 08:49

Looks like Windows Mobile 7 is turning out to be a giant fail so far!

Dave B

11th October 2010, 09:48

I can't say I'm totally surprised. I remain to be convinced about Nokia's new offerings either, from my experience of "old" Symbian and the shambles that is the Ovi store.

I'm happily on Android 2.2 now and wouldn't switch to an Apple product if they paid me.

Mark

11th October 2010, 10:26

I'm happily on Android 2.2 now and wouldn't switch to an Apple product if they paid me.

Android really is a surprise. It's a recent thing that came from almost nowhere to take on Symbian and Windows and is knocking on Apple's door!

But; if you look at the numbers Nokia is still winning, but personally I wouldn't have another Symbian phone, even though every time it's supposed to be 'improved' but ends up no better.

pino

11th October 2010, 10:30

I am looking for a replacement for my N96, should I buy the N8, go for iPhone4 or... ? Thanks for any suggestion/advices :)

Mark

11th October 2010, 10:36

I am looking for a replacement for my N96, should I buy the N8, go for iPhone4 or... ? Thanks for any suggestion/advices :)

tbh I wouldn't go with any Nokia products at the moment. They are poorly supported and in a total state of flux at the moment.

My suggestion would be either an Android based phone, or an iPhone. Personally coming from a Nokia phone I think the iPhone is fanstatic, just because of the amount of software available for it. But it does lack in terms of phone features, such as customisable profiles etc.

I don't know much about Android, I know it hasn't got as much software as for iPhone but it's still got way more than Nokia!

Mark

11th October 2010, 14:32

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49450000/gif/_49450948_smartphones_464.gif

A very interesting graph. Shows Symbian has dipped significantly over the past couple of years while Blackberry (RIM) has stayed about the same.

Android has come from nothing to take pretty much all the share which used to belong to Microsoft with Apple taking most of the rest.

Symbian is, of course, still in the lead, although you wouldn't think it from most articles. The thing is that Symbian is on a lot of 'normal' phones that people don't buy because they are smartphones particularly.

janneppi

11th October 2010, 17:02

The thing is that Symbian is on a lot of 'normal' phones that people don't buy because they are smartphones particularly.
I have a Nokia C5, I don't really consider it to be a smartphone anymore as it costs only 150Eur compared to the 500-700Eur that the touch screen thingies cost.
Only thing missing is wifi, other than that it has pretty much all the features you need on a modern phone, gps, bluetooth, camera, 3,5G internet connection, etc. Infact, I wouldn't recommend a 500Eur smartphone to anyone but for techno geeks or to turtleneck folks.

gloomyDAY

11th October 2010, 17:38

I have a Nokia C5, I don't really consider it to be a smartphone anymore as it costs only 150Eur compared to the 500-700Eur that the touch screen thingies cost.
Only thing missing is wifi, other than that it has pretty much all the features you need on a modern phone, gps, bluetooth, camera, 3,5G internet connection, etc. Infact, I wouldn't recommend a 500Eur smartphone to anyone but for techno geeks or to turtleneck folks.Bingo!

Jag_Warrior

11th October 2010, 20:27

I hate Apple and in particular the iPod Touch.
I spent 4 hours yesterday trying to upgrade donkito's os to 4.02:
*Backup music with non-Apple 15$ Software... check (I learnt this was necessary the hard way about a year ago when I had to rebuy my legally bought albums after the previous OS update crashed)
*Backup apps with itunes... check (or so I thought!)
*Backup ipod... check
*New OS Installed... check

All done? Yes, apart from the game status. A year of gaming down the drain. A :bigcry: for donkito and a frustrated :mad: for me. I don't like feeling like an incompetent IT-donkey :dozey:
So much for either user-friendly 1-click backups or do-it-yourself drag-and- drop... Apple iPod and itunes offer neither :down:

It's pretty cool when it works, but if I get one for myself it won't be apple.

Except for the apps, I have all the data that I've loaded on the iPod saved in other places. But I want to better understand what happened to you, since I will perform an iOS update when 4.2 comes out in a month or so.

If you have time to explain it further, it would be appreciated.

BTW, so far, I've been absolutely amazed at how much I'm doing on the iPod Touch that I used to do on my laptop. I'm doing most everything that doesn't require any heavy typing. It's just so much more convenient, easier and faster to access. I can even track my satellite usage levels with a free app I found! So many apps, so little time. Now I'm beginning to understand how people get addicted to smartphones and similar devices. Luckily, I refuse to get involved with gaming, FaceBook or Twitter - otherwise I'd be a tap-tap addict like so many others I see everyday.

Daniel

11th October 2010, 20:35

Looks like Windows Mobile 7 is turning out to be a giant fail so far!

?

http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/11/live-from-microsofts-windows-phone-7-launch-event/

Daika

12th October 2010, 00:39

Jag_Warrior

12th October 2010, 01:16

I notice there is a autosport.com app. It cost 4 euro/3 pounds. I don't have a subcription. I'm wondering wheter it is worth buying it? Anybody tried it out/ If it has the same content as the website which is free (ofcourse some articles required a subcription). 4 euro is to much if it has the same content. 0.79 euro like most apps, i'm sold.

It looks interesting. But I agree, it seems on the pricey side.

But I do have my eye on the Soft Pauer F1 Timing app. If I get the gal-pal an iPad for Christmas (and she'll watch the races with me next season), I'll probably break down and pay the $17 for that timing and track position app. I've grown used to sleeping in some Sunday mornings, and watching qualifying and the races later in the morning on DVR. This app allows you to replay any session whenever you want to... so you could sync the session or race to your DVR replay and feel like it's totally live! Not only is this one of Steve Jobs' favorite iPad/iPod apps, Steve Matchett also speaks very highly of it.

I tell ya, I feel like a caveman who's seen fire for the first time. This thing is so cool!

race aficionado

12th October 2010, 05:15

I tell ya, I feel like a caveman who's seen fire for the first time. This thing is so cool!

I know the feeling.
My son had an iPhone for one year before I took the leap.
It is an amazing trinket and my son knows it so much more than I do.

My son is one of those tap-tap addicts that multitasks as he studies - by listening to music, or viewing a YouTube video, playing with an ap or posting on Facebook, as he is texting with his girlfriend.

It's scary! :vampire: :s mokin:
but these are their times, we're just trying to keep up.
:)

Mark

12th October 2010, 07:58

?

http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/11/live-from-microsofts-windows-phone-7-launch-event/

My ruse to get a post out of you worked :cool: .
Still a giant fail tho :hmh:

Mark

12th October 2010, 08:00

It looks interesting. But I agree, it seems on the pricey side.

But I do have my eye on the Soft Pauer F1 Timing app. If I get the gal-pal an iPad for Christmas (and she'll watch the races with me next season), I'll probably break down and pay the $17 for that timing and track position app. I've grown used to sleeping in some Sunday mornings, and watching qualifying and the races later in the morning on DVR. This app allows you to replay any session whenever you want to... so you could sync the session or race to your DVR replay and feel like it's totally live! Not only is this one of Steve Jobs' favorite iPad/iPod apps, Steve Matchett also speaks very highly of it.

I tell ya, I feel like a caveman who's seen fire for the first time. This thing is so cool!

The basic timing app is pretty good. I might look at getting the 'full' one next year but as you say - it's pricey. And for one reason or another I always seem to be watching the races on a recording this year, even if it's just delayed by an hour so we can go out for Sunday lunch etc.

donKey jote

12th October 2010, 20:16

Except for the apps, I have all the data that I've loaded on the iPod saved in other places. But I want to better understand what happened to you, since I will perform an iOS update when 4.2 comes out in a month or so.

If you have time to explain it further, it would be appreciated.
I had everything saved too, or so I thought :s
I even bought an App backerupper, to be on the safe side...
Did the OS update, resynched, and hey presto ! Everything was there.
... Except a years worth of app data (settings, game status, etc). :dozey:

BTW, so far, I've been absolutely amazed at how much I'm doing on the iPod Touch that I used to do on my laptop. I'm doing most everything that doesn't require any heavy typing. It's just so much more convenient, easier and faster to access. I can even track my satellite usage levels with a free app I found! So many apps, so little time. Now I'm beginning to understand how people get addicted to smartphones and similar devices. Luckily, I refuse to get involved with gaming, FaceBook or Twitter - otherwise I'd be a tap-tap addict like so many others I see everyday.
Yep I like it a lot, just really pissed off at Apple for making such a fundamental thing as backups so obscure and inflexible.

Daika

12th October 2010, 20:34

The windows phone would annoy the living daylights out of me. Why does the interface show half of the words? Not games but ames, video becomes eo.

Daniel

12th October 2010, 22:44

The windows phone would annoy the living daylights out of me. Why does the interface show half of the words? Not games but ames, video becomes eo.

Are you serious?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRT_wQsBWOA&feature=fvst

Daika

12th October 2010, 23:47

Are you serious?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRT_wQsBWOA&feature=fvst

Yes.

GridGirl

13th October 2010, 08:45

My iphone 3G died a death when I was working away in Chelmsford last week. Its not good when you only have TomTom on your phone and your 150 miles away from where you love. Getting to the clients in the morning was an interesting experience but luckily by internal compass was my saviour! After 36 hours of charging my iphone came back to life but now four days and 2 days charging since then I think it is officially dead again.

I think I'm gonna have to get an iphone 4. Recent posts have made me change my mind yet. :)

Mark

13th October 2010, 08:48

I think I'm gonna have to get an iphone 4. Recent posts have made me change my mind yet. :)

Makes sense. Despite rivals coming out with some excellent products. Right at this moment the iPhone 4 is still the best overall package out there IMO. I'm not sure how much advantage you'll see over the 3GS apart from the display quality and improved GPS reception, but at least you'll be able to keep all your apps!

Dave B

13th October 2010, 14:34

tbh I wouldn't go with any Nokia products at the moment. They are poorly supported and in a total state of flux at the moment.
I had a Nokia E71 running the old version of Symbian. There were a handful of decent apps and games, but the Ovi store was a farce and the OS always seemed to be at the back of the queue for any developers to bother writing for.

My suggestion would be either an Android based phone, or an iPhone. Personally coming from a Nokia phone I think the iPhone is fanstatic, just because of the amount of software available for it. But it does lack in terms of phone features, such as customisable profiles etc.

I don't know much about Android, I know it hasn't got as much software as for iPhone but it's still got way more than Nokia!
My HTC Desire is pretty much as customisable as you want it to be, and you can save profiles so that you could easily switch between - say - a work and a home profile. The Android marketplace is a doddle to use, it could do with some better search features but I've never once had a problem installing anything.

Not that I've got 2.2 on the phone I can move many of my apps to the SD card, that was the one real weakness of earlier versions: the phone's internal memory soon filled up.

Apple is way ahead with the amount of apps, that's true, but so many of them duplicate each others' functions. There are only so many stopwatches or fart buttons that one person needs. Plus I abhor the way Apple controls its envionment: you're utterly dependent on the hideous bloatware that is iTunes to copy anything onto your handset.

iPhones are excellent bits of kit in a Fisher Price kind of way, don't get me wrong, but they're a walled garden in an increasingly open world.

Daniel

13th October 2010, 15:03

I had a Nokia E71 running the old version of Symbian. There were a handful of decent apps and games, but the Ovi store was a farce and the OS always seemed to be at the back of the queue for any developers to bother writing for.

My HTC Desire is pretty much as customisable as you want it to be, and you can save profiles so that you could easily switch between - say - a work and a home profile. The Android marketplace is a doddle to use, it could do with some better search features but I've never once had a problem installing anything.

Not that I've got 2.2 on the phone I can move many of my apps to the SD card, that was the one real weakness of earlier versions: the phone's internal memory soon filled up.

Apple is way ahead with the amount of apps, that's true, but so many of them duplicate each others' functions. There are only so many stopwatches or fart buttons that one person needs. Plus I abhor the way Apple controls its envionment: you're utterly depeent on the hideous bloatware that is iTunes to copy anything onto your handset.

iPhones are excellent bits of kit in a Fisher Price kind of way, don't get me wrong, but they're a walled garden in an increasingly open world.

:up:

Daika's post above illustrates just how fickle people can be when it comes to technology. There's a perfectly logical explanation why WinPho7 does what it does but some people don't want to think or look why and assume it's some major bug. That's why the Fisher Price iPhone setup works so well.

Think I'm going for a HTC Mondrian (or is it the Mozart) as it has a solid aluminium chassis because I like the build quality of my e71.

Mark

13th October 2010, 15:04

Apple is way ahead with the amount of apps, that's true, but so many of them duplicate each others' functions. There are only so many stopwatches or fart buttons that one person needs. Plus I abhor the way Apple controls its envionment: you're utterly dependent on the hideous bloatware that is iTunes to copy anything onto your handset.
.

Depends what you want to copy I suppose? I rarely need to use iTunes but I agree it's a right royal PITA when I do. To start with it doesn't work with Linux which is what I use 99% of the time. If I boot into Vista and install iTunes it messes with my Python installation so that my video conferencing software - which I need for work, stops working!

So I have it in a virtual machine, which rarely works properly!

Dave B

13th October 2010, 15:31

Depends what you want to copy I suppose?
I wanted to copy come wedding photos to show people, on my Nokia and my Desire I just.... copied them. Want to Bluetooth one to someone else? Takes 10 seconds. Can't do that with iPhones.

BTW, one of my friends has this as their Facebook status this morning:

Latest iPhone update deleted all my numbers, please inbox or text me your number if you had it previously! x
One of the comments:

You're the third person I know that this has happened to! Not good =(

Oh. Even when I updated the entire OS on my HTC, all my data survived intact.

Daika

13th October 2010, 15:36

I'm wondering wheter i should get the iphone 4 or a android/htc desire. I already own the iphone 3gs. What i like about the android that it is open source which means i/developers can do whatever i want with it without asking Steve Jobs if he approves. Obviously the Iphone is a fantastic user friendly product? Is it a big step from 3gs to Iphone 4 in terms of speed. Apart from that retina display i don't care about facetime or hd pictures/videos, ofcourse that would be nice but not essential.

Dave B

13th October 2010, 16:03

The retina display is indeed nice but I've had no problems with the screen on my Desire. I used it as an e-reader (Amazon's Kindle software) for about 2 hours on a flight without the slightest bit of eye strain, and photos and video looks great.

If you're used to the 3G you'll obviously have no problems getting to grips with the 4; but Android isn't exactly hard to use. In all honesty, have a play with both and go with the phone that best suits you.

Mark

13th October 2010, 17:01

Of course if you already have a 3GS then upgrading to the 4 means you keep your apps.

GridGirl

13th October 2010, 17:23

Makes sense. Despite rivals coming out with some excellent products. Right at this moment the iPhone 4 is still the best overall package out there IMO. I'm not sure how much advantage you'll see over the 3GS apart from the display quality and improved GPS reception, but at least you'll be able to keep all your apps!

I'm not even on 3GS...I have a prehistoric 3G. Hopefully it will be lots better. I know how slow my 3G is compared to 3GS. Plus I wont need to rebuild the phone everytime TomTom updates if I upgrade.

GridGirl

13th October 2010, 17:30

Dave, I doubt the iphone problem your friends are having is actually related to the upgrade. I have had the same problem when I've rebuilt my iphone and its to do with how your contacts are saved; whether on the phone or on the sim card. You go can go into the phone settings and restore them. It takes about 5 seconds do. Granted, it would be far easier if you didnt have to spend the 5 seconds doing it yourself.

Dave B

13th October 2010, 17:39

I'll let them know, thanks. One of them had to take theirs to the (ahem) Genius bar to get it working. :s

Daniel

13th October 2010, 18:49

I wanted to copy come wedding photos to show people, on my Nokia and my Desire I just.... copied them. Want to Bluetooth one to someone else? Takes 10 seconds. Can't do that with iPhones.

BTW, one of my friends has this as their Facebook status this morning:

One of the comments:

Oh. Even when I updated the entire OS on my HTC, all my data survived intact.

And people still buy the iPhone in droves......

I still can't work out how Apple seem to portray this image of being a company that makes products that "just work" when clearly things are not quite so smooth as they would want you to believe. I mean FFS Gridgirl is talking about having to rebuild her iPhone EVERYTIME TomTom release an update and she still wants to buy a new one that was designed with an antenna which doesn't work as well as an antenna should...... Apple used to go on about how you had to restart your PC everytime you installed something new and now what are they making you do with your iPhone? :confused: Something far more tiresome. Now of course the problem is most likely down to TomTom being a bit sloppy with their app, but isn't this the sort of thing that the walled garden is meant to protect you against?

Now Apple can make a good product, the iPod is proof of this but when will people wake up and see that the competition is actually pretty good and that the iPhone is not revolutionary, magical or whatever flowery word Steve Knobs wants to portray it as when compared to the competition. Tie this overrated phone to Apples much hated iTunes and it's not as good as troublefree as Apple would have you believe.

Well it's your money :laugh:

Daika

13th October 2010, 18:53

Of course if you already have a 3GS then upgrading to the 4 means you keep your apps.

My current thinking is to go for a Ipad and wait for the next generation of iphone/androids. I don't think the leap is so big from 3gs to iphone 4. 3g to Iphone is massive speedwise. Actually i think i'm not going to buy the Ipad either, a ipad with a retina display that is what i'm gonna wait for.

MrJan

13th October 2010, 18:59

Daniel

13th October 2010, 19:17

I like my fIsher pRice 3G. It's simple and does what I want (mind you I said the same of my old Nokia which would just phone and text). I also don't feel the need to tell everyone else that they need to get one, or shouldn't get something else. I think that one of the reasons that I plucked for the iPhone is that I was fed up with people pointing out every little problem and then telling me to get an HTC.

So you went against the advice you were getting.... because there were too many people telling you to do something? :confused: How many people would it take to say "don't jump off a cliff" for you to jump off a cliff? :confused:

Jag_Warrior

13th October 2010, 20:35

I had everything saved too, or so I thought :s
I even bought an App backerupper, to be on the safe side...
Did the OS update, resynched, and hey presto ! Everything was there.
... Except a years worth of app data (settings, game status, etc). :dozey:

I'm still new to this so you'll have to excuse me for not "getting it". If I understand what you're saying, you didn't lose the apps themselves, but the settings and some of the data associated with the apps?

Just for giggles, I reset my iPod Touch last night to see what would happen. I had a bank app that wasn't working right so I figured I'd play around to see if I could fix it. I backed up everything with an iTunes sync and held the power button and the home button on the screen (as my girl suggested - she's the iExpert in this relationship) until I saw the Apple symbol on the screen. It reset the apps, everything started working again (including the bank app and another app that had been in "wait" mode for several days) and my settings and data were still there. I guess that's considered a "soft" reset and not the total reset though. :confused:

But I guess you actually upgraded to a newer iOS, right? And that's what made the apps, settings and data go hinky? Yeah, that would be a problem. When I go to iOS 4.2, I'll see what happens. Like I said, this is all new to me. And right now, any data that's on the iPod Touch is also in at least two other locations - coming from the MicroSux Windows world, I've gotten used to devices crashing, freezing up and losing my data. But that still sucks what happened to your son.

Like the caveman who saw fire for the first time, and then figured out that he could cook his dinner with it, I just made my first series of stock trades on this thing. So in an indirect way, I guess you could say that it's already paid for itself. So far, so good. :up:

Mark

14th October 2010, 08:23

I mean FFS Gridgirl is talking about having to rebuild her iPhone EVERYTIME TomTom release an update and she still wants to buy a new one

She has an 8GB iPhone 3G I believe. On which she has lots of stuff stored, certainly more than 6GB worth.

The TomTom application with Western Europe maps weighs in at around 2GB. But whenever there is an update you get the entire 2GB download again! The way updates work it downloads it into a temporary area, then deletes the old app and installs the new one. But GridGirl doesn't have the 2GB space required to download the new app, so she's forced to download the app on her PC and then wipe the phone and reinstall everything.

Now the problem here is TomTom insisting on giving you the maps every single time. I have another iPhone app called ViewRanger which has around 1GB of maps with it and when they publish updates you just download the very small app and update that, the maps are not touched, so it can be done!

The problem here isn't a specific "ooh Apple is bad" fault, it's a combination of TomToms giant size and update policy and the fact that she's got too much stuff in flash memory!

Myself I've successfully updated TomTom when an update is released, because I have sufficient free storage.

GridGirl

14th October 2010, 08:51

I mean FFS Gridgirl is talking about having to rebuild her iPhone EVERYTIME TomTom release an update .....

To be fair Daniel, I only have to rebuild it because I only have an 8GB iphone that doesnt have enought memory because I've used it all. At the time of buying my iphone I thought that 8gb would be more than enough memory space and 18 months down the line it obviously isn't. I wouldn't have to rebuild my iphone when TomTom updates if I had a 16gb or 32GB iphone. The problem is not Apple's. Its mine for underestimating how much stuff (apps, music, photo's etc) I would want to keep on the phone. :)

Edit: Yeah, like Mark said. :p :)

Mark

14th October 2010, 09:03

When I bought my phone I wasn't sure if going for 32GB would be worth the extra cash. But looking at my usage I have 12.8GB of stuff at the moment, and I believe the 16GB model has something like 14GB usable capacity. So already I'd be in a position where I couldn't update TomTom either!

MrJan

14th October 2010, 09:18

So you went against the advice you were getting.... because there were too many people telling you to do something?

No, I got the iPhone because the people 'advising' me to get the Desire were largely just being dicks and slagging the iPhone rather than telling me what was so great about the Desire. Since owning my iPhone I have had no problems with it either.

Mark

14th October 2010, 10:07

No, I got the iPhone because the people 'advising' me to get the Desire were largely just being dicks and slagging the iPhone rather than telling me what was so great about the Desire. Since owning my iPhone I have had no problems with it either.

Indeed. You need to objectively weigh up the pro's and con's of whatever you decide to purchase - this applies to all purchases of course.

It does seem that objective advice for mobile phones is hard to come by as it gets drowned out by the 'fanbois' and the 'haters'.

Eki

14th October 2010, 11:06

I hear Nokia is coming up with a new model, Nokia myBad.

Andrewmcm

14th October 2010, 16:01

Go to shop. Try lots of phones. Go away and think about it. Don't listen to anybody else. Make your own mind up. Buy the one you like.

Easy peasy.

Jag_Warrior

14th October 2010, 18:37

Indeed. You need to objectively weigh up the pro's and con's of whatever you decide to purchase - this applies to all purchases of course.

It does seem that objective advice for mobile phones is hard to come by as it gets drowned out by the 'fanbois' and the 'haters'.

Go to shop. Try lots of phones. Go away and think about it. Don't listen to anybody else. Make your own mind up. Buy the one you like.

Easy peasy.

Excellent advice from both of you. The same is true of computers, cars and I would say a great many other consumer items.

We all probably have brand preferences for various items. And there may be some companies that we don't like. But at the end of the day, to get the best product, you really need to rely on objective advice and accept the how's, what's and why's of your purchase. The tough part is, until you buy a particular type of device, you may not (fully) realize what that class of device is capable of doing. Though I still have more negatives than positives on getting a smartphone, and I knew the basics of why I wanted this iPod Touch instead, almost everyday I find some new, unknown (to me) business related app that makes it possible for me to save time and/or make money. Who knew???

Ugh! Fire good! Rain bad! :D

race aficionado

14th October 2010, 19:37

donKey jote

14th October 2010, 19:44

The ap my son purchased uses your phone's GPS to let you know what bathroom facilities are around where you are and it also posts pictures of them and gives them star ratings.

sounds like markabilly's favourite too :laugh: :erm: :s ailor: :p

Eki

14th October 2010, 20:12

Finding a place to go to the bathroom in NYC is a pain in a pain in the butt (literally).
What I found in NYC even harder was finding a vacant parking spot. And keeping the car in the parking area of a hotel cost about as much as a motel room+parking in California desert.

race aficionado

14th October 2010, 20:21

What I found in NYC even harder was finding a vacant parking spot. And keeping the car in the parking area of a hotel cost about as much as a motel room+parking in California desert.

That's why I don't have a car in NYC. It is nuts.

Just wait, soon there will be an application called iPark.

:s mokin:

Jag_Warrior

14th October 2010, 20:37

I have always found Aps a fascinating add-on.

First, it allows creative geeks to come up with sometimes amazing applications and also make a profit out of it.

The latest one my son got is this:

Finding a place to go to the bathroom in NYC is a pain in a pain in the butt (literally).
Our city does not have public/pay lues like you find in some european cities so when you have to go you have to seek restaurants (where only patrons can use the facilities) or go to one of the mayor transportation hubs or risk an arrest when you are forced to go behind a tree.

The ap my son purchased uses your phone's GPS to let you know what bathroom facilities are around where you are and it also posts pictures of them and gives them star ratings.

How useful is that!

But my all time favorite is the one that comes included on my iPhone called "maps" (and probably on other smart phones) which is the live map that shows where you are and can take you to places that you want to find (like a restaurant or a bank, or a particular street address). I love that I can see where I am and how I literarily 'move' in the map.

What's your favorite ap?
:s mokin:

If I lived in a large city with restricted bathrooms, I think that bathroom app would be pretty useful... er, necessary!

And if I was touring a major city, I think the map app sounds useful. I might go to the ALMS race in Baltimore next year. And it's been almost 20 years since I spent any amount of time in that city - so I'm sure that between my fading memory and changes to streets, I would get lost faster than a blind man in a maze. So I can imagine that such an app would come in very handy. If my girl goes with me, since she has an iPhone, we should be able to make use of that.

Right now, apart from news and weather, I guess the app I use the most is the stock market app that my broker developed. Getting into it and navigating around is significantly faster than using my laptop or desktop. I can grab a price and execute a trade at least twice as fast as I can on the PC. :up: I'm using the same Wi-Fi network on all these devices, but the iPod Touch executes commands MUCH faster - probably because the OS is cleaner/more efficient? :confused: I'm not sure. I don't ask questions. It just works. :D

Daniel

14th October 2010, 22:31

If I lived in a large city with restricted bathrooms, I think that bathroom app would be pretty useful... er, necessary!

And if I was touring a major city, I think the map app sounds useful. I might go to the ALMS race in Baltimore next year. And it's been almost 20 years since I spent any amount of time in that city - so I'm sure that between my fading memory and changes to streets, I would get lost faster than a blind man in a maze. So I can imagine that such an app would come in very handy. If my girl goes with me, since she has an iPhone, we should be able to make use of that.

Right now, apart from news and weather, I guess the app I use the most is the stock market app that my broker developed. Getting into it and navigating around is significantly faster than using my laptop or desktop. I can grab a price and execute a trade at least twice as fast as I can on the PC. :up: I'm using the same Wi-Fi network on all these devices, but the iPod Touch executes commands MUCH faster - probably because the OS is cleaner/more efficient? :confused: I'm not sure. I don't ask questions. It just works. :D

Might be the fact that the Touch doesn't support flash I guess.

pino

15th October 2010, 06:54

I will go for the Nokia N8, most reviews are positive about it and sound quality is excellent, which is the most important thing for me as I will use the music-player a lot :D

Daniel

15th October 2010, 08:01

I will go for the Nokia N8, most reviews are positive about it and sound quality is excellent, which is the most important thing for me as I will use the music-player a lot :D
Seems a good phone

http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/14/nokia-n8-review/

But I'm done with Nokia till they go with Windows Phone 7 or Android OR they make Symbian worthwhile, it just isn't up to it for me at least. Nokia hardware with a proper operating system would be unbeatable.

Mark

15th October 2010, 08:23

I will go for the Nokia N8, most reviews are positive about it and sound quality is excellent, which is the most important thing for me as I will use the music-player a lot :D

Good stuff! I hope it turns out to be a good phone. It's a second generation for touch Symbian so hopefully they'll have learned the lessons of the N97 and things will be much improved for you.

But I'm with Daniel that I'm done with Symbian, it's just too old and too clunky and not fit for purpose any more IMO. I hope their Linux based (just like Android!) OS pans out and we can see a rebirth of Nokia smartphones rather than just another tarted up Symbian.

I don't think we'll ever see Nokias with WM7 or Android however!

pino

15th October 2010, 09:01

For what I am using my mobile the N8 it's the best choice at the moment (also considering the price) so I am looking forward to add it in my mobile-collection :crazy: :p :

Daniel

15th October 2010, 09:08

But if they did do one it would be awesome....

The problem is that unless Nokia do some omgwtfbbq type amazing or go with an established OS then they're boned in terms of high end smartphones.

Mark

15th October 2010, 11:23

But if they did do one it would be awesome....

The problem is that unless Nokia do some omgwtfbbq type amazing or go with an established OS then they're boned in terms of high end smartphones.

Well they are going to release a new version of Symbian in 2011, which will have an entirely different setup to the current one which was developed back in 2003, so we'll see!

Daniel

15th October 2010, 12:00

I hope it's good. But I suspect it'll be too little too late and unless inho7 flops they'll always be behind the rest. Ffs Nokia, just use Android or WinPho7, you'll be back up at the top.....

Mark

15th October 2010, 12:39

I have 106 apps! hmm I think that's a lot...

Daniel

15th October 2010, 13:41

I can't think of 106 bits of functionality I'd want :-s

Dave B

19th October 2010, 09:28

Oh dear. On the day that Apple announce quite phenomenal profits, Steve Jobs had a slightly neurotic attack at Android, criticising it for calling itself "open" and predicting that the new wave of 7" tablets would fail.

My favourite part was this:

In addition to Google's own app marketplace, Amazon, Horizon and Vodafone have all announced that they are creating their own app stores for Android. So there will be at least four app stores on Android, which customers must search among to find the app they want and developers will need to work with to distribute their apps and get paid. This is going to be a mess for both users and developers. Contrast this with Apple's integrated App Store, which offers users the easiest-to-use largest app store in the world, preloaded on every iPhone.

So plurality and choice are bad, are they? Or could it be that Steve's freaked out by the idea of users and developers not being shackled into iTunes?

Suppliers and shoppers seem to cope pretty well with having more than one supermaket chain or bookshop, so I'm sure we'll all cope with having alternatives to the Android Marketplace.

Full story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/oct/19/jobs-transcript-tablets-ipad-iphone-android

Dave B

19th October 2010, 09:47

I have 106 apps! hmm I think that's a lot...

I can't think of 106 bits of functionality I'd want :-s

48 here, but I've installed then deleted many more. Of those 48, I probably use about half of them on any kind of regular basis.

Mark

19th October 2010, 10:14

I can see both points. Competition between app stores is good for the consumer, but having a single point of access is also good!

GridGirl

19th October 2010, 13:16

Right now I'm loving the Sainsbury's and nectar apps. Having received back somewhere in the region of almost £500 via nectar points in the last 12 months any excuse to get more points and therefore more money back is a good thing to me. :D

Daniel

19th October 2010, 13:18

Oh dear. On the day that Apple announce quite phenomenal profits, Steve Jobs had a slightly neurotic attack at Android, criticising it for calling itself "open" and predicting that the new wave of 7" tablets would fail.

My favourite part was this:

So plurality and choice are bad, are they? Or could it be that Steve's freaked out by the idea of users and developers not being shackled into iTunes?

Suppliers and shoppers seem to cope pretty well with having more than one supermaket chain or bookshop, so I'm sure we'll all cope with having alternatives to the Android Marketplace.

Full story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/oct/19/jobs-transcript-tablets-ipad-iphone-android

The guy's an effing moron. If he genuinely thinks what he's saying he's a moron and if he's saying it just to scare people off then he's also a moron.

Now I know the products they make are generally decent, but ffs have some brains people! Don't send your money to Steve Knobs, all he does is go off on rants like this, deny that there's any problems when there are actual problems and being a generally unpleasant person.

This sounds like the exact sort of person I DON'T want getting his hands on my money.

Mark

19th October 2010, 13:19

pino

19th October 2010, 13:21

I've got 12 Apps in my Nokia N96 and that's more than enough for me :p :

Daniel

19th October 2010, 13:25

I can see both points. Competition between app stores is good for the consumer, but having a single point of access is also good!
But at some point it becomes like Sainsburys/Asda/Tesco/Morrisons etc etc where if you want a loaf of bread or whatever you could go to all three :)

Dave B

19th October 2010, 13:26

Word is that they are releasing an updated version of the iPhone 4 - mostly for the American market and Verizon (who for some reason don't use the world wide standard of GSM?! :confused: ) but chances are this model will include an antenna upgrade.
It's widely believed that the delays in supplying the white iPhone are down to an internal design - and that almost certainly means the antenna. There are few other credible reasons - after all how hard is it to switch the colour of the case?

Mark

19th October 2010, 13:29

But at some point it becomes like Sainsburys/Asda/Tesco/Morrisons etc etc where if you want a loaf of bread or whatever you could go to all three :)

Yep, as long as they are all equally as accessible then it's fine!

Daniel

19th October 2010, 13:32

It's widely believed that the delays in supplying the white iPhone are down to an internal design - and that almost certainly means the antenna. There are few other credible reasons - after all how hard is it to switch the colour of the case?

Maybe white and magic aren't as easy to combine as you'd think Dave.

Dave B

21st October 2010, 10:17

For what I am using my mobile the N8 it's the best choice at the moment (also considering the price) so I am looking forward to add it in my mobile-collection :crazy: :p :

This review of the N8 can't speak highly enough about the hardware itself. The OS, and the user experience, though....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/oct/19/nokia-n8-reviewed

The same applies to the majority of the other reviews quoted towards the end of the article.

How long before Nokia cave in and launch an Android handset?

Mark

21st October 2010, 15:03

Sums it all up really. Nokia can make great hardware but their operating systems totally suck! Whereas Apple use competitively average hardware but have an excellent OS.

Jag_Warrior

21st October 2010, 20:21

Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the future when the Symbian CEO departs on short notice... and the smartphone team leader is hot on his heels running for the door.

Symbian CEO leaves own foundation on short notice (http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/10/19/symbian.ceo.williams.exits.foundation/)

The Symbian Foundation faced another setback today as Symbian CEO Lee Williams has resigned his Executive Director position effective immediately. He would only give "personal reasons" for the departure. Tim Holbrow, the Foundation's CFO, is replacing Williams.

Symbian has suffered multiple blows in recent months as some of its key proponents at Nokia have made both voluntary and involuntary exits. The Finnish phone builder suddenly replaced its CEO Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo in September over what's commonly thought to be dissatisfaction with an inability to reverse sliding market share. Its smartphone team leader Anssi Vanjoki is also exiting soon.

I also read that Microsoft's chief software architect, Ray Ozzie, just resigned. Reports are that he was tired of butting heads with Steve Ballmer, for whom he apparently had very little intellectual respect.

The way it looks right now, Microsoft, RIMM and Nokia/Symbian are going to be little more than fringe/niche players in the smartphone segment in the years to come. They keep coming up a day late and a dollar short in the market, and iOS and Android are capturing the imagination of consumers and businesses globally. If Windows Phone 7 doesn't catch fire (and I don't believe it will) and the stock remains a dog, I look for Ballmer to be ousted from Microsoft within 18 months. Since he took over in 2000, the company has gone from being a technology front runner to a stumbling, bumbling also-ran.

Daniel

21st October 2010, 21:55

Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the future when the Symbian CEO departs on short notice... and the smartphone team leader is hot on his heels running for the door.

Symbian CEO leaves own foundation on short notice (http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/10/19/symbian.ceo.williams.exits.foundation/)

I also read that Microsoft's chief software architect, Ray Ozzie, just resigned. Reports are that he was tired of butting heads with Steve Ballmer, for whom he apparently had very little intellectual respect.

The way it looks right now, Microsoft, RIMM and Nokia/Symbian are going to be little more than fringe/niche players in the smartphone segment in the years to come. They keep coming up a day late and a dollar short in the market, and iOS and Android are capturing the imagination of consumers and businesses globally. If Windows Phone 7 doesn't catch fire (and I don't believe it will) and the stock remains a dog, I look for Ballmer to be ousted from Microsoft within 18 months. Since he took over in 2000, the company has gone from being a technology front runner to a stumbling, bumbling also-ran.

Huh? Since 2000 Microsoft have launched 2 very successful desktop OS's, become a big player in the mobile market, then become a minor player in the mobile market and have now launched what looks to be a very good phone OS. Microsoft have also broken into the gaming market which was pretty much dominated by Playstation.

What a failure that Ballmer guy is :rotflmao: Perhaps in terms of overhyped and overvalued share prices Microsoft isn't doing well, but Microsoft is an integral part of what makes the world operate. Remove all Apple stuff tomorrow and will the world stop turning? Nope, remove everything that Microsoft has made and there's a whole lot of hurt.

Microsoft may not generate the headlines that Apple does but they're everywhere.

I'd seriously LOVE to meet Steve Ballmer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKTnQYScpyk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-8IufkbuD0

He may have made some mistakes, but he's one awesome crazy sweaty man :up:

pino

22nd October 2010, 11:21

New software plans for Nokia :

http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_reveals_new_plans_for_sw_development_publish es_q3_results-news-2016.php

Dave B

22nd October 2010, 12:16

New software plans for Nokia :

http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_reveals_new_plans_for_sw_development_publish es_q3_results-news-2016.php

All well and good, but it might be too late soon. Nokia have a huge share of the smartphone market, but I suspect in many cases that's simply because people bought the (admittedly excellent) phones to use as phones; the fact that they happenned to be smartphones was neither here nor there.

"New" Symbian basically had to be phenomenal out of the box to compete with iOS and Android, and early reports seem to indicate it's got a mountain to climb.

Jag_Warrior

22nd October 2010, 21:24

Huh? Since 2000 Microsoft have launched 2 very successful desktop OS's, become a big player in the mobile market, then become a minor player in the mobile market and have now launched what looks to be a very good phone OS. Microsoft have also broken into the gaming market which was pretty much dominated by Playstation.

What a failure that Ballmer guy is :rotflmao: Perhaps in terms of overhyped and overvalued share prices Microsoft isn't doing well, but Microsoft is an integral part of what makes the world operate. Remove all Apple stuff tomorrow and will the world stop turning? Nope, remove everything that Microsoft has made and there's a whole lot of hurt.

Microsoft may not generate the headlines that Apple does but they're everywhere.

I think you've pretty much captured one of Ballmer's key problems as Microsoft CEO in that last statement: increasingly the company is being seen as a producer of hardware and software commodities. That may just be what Microsoft is going to be in the future. But the market has expected more of what the company used to be: a leader in successfully putting profitable products to market, if not innovation. It's not about whether the world could do without MSFT (Intel, Cisco or any other major producer of software/hardware components), it's about whether or not Microsoft would be better off having someone besides Steve Ballmer as its CEO. As long as he can rely on his decades old friendship with Bill Gates, he may be able to keep his job... whether Win Phone 7 bombs or not. But speculation in the financial press is that if Win Phone 7 bombs and the stock craters, Gates will likely find a way for Ballmer to step aside without being humiliated. One of those "walk before you have to run" deals.

Forbes ranks CEO's every year or so. I haven't looked at those ranking in awhile. But it'll be interesting to see how the various tech CEO's are ranked at the end of this year.

Daniel

23rd October 2010, 20:23

whether Win Phone 7 bombs or not. But speculation in the financial press is that if Win Phone 7 bombs and the stock craters, Gates will likely find a way for Ballmer to step aside without being humiliated. One of those "walk before you have to run" deals.

I really can't see this happening.... tried a HTC HD7 today and tbh the UI and menu system is just fantastic.

Mark

24th October 2010, 08:14

When you getting one then?

pino

24th October 2010, 08:19

The HTC Desire also is a great mobile, I am tempted...I just have to find out how the sound is first and compare it with N8 ;)

Daniel

24th October 2010, 08:27

Pino. Do try a Windows Phone 7 phone too. HTC 7 Mozart and the Samsung Omnia 7 would be my choice.

Mark, I would have had one today but they didn't want to sell it on payg and I'm not paying £35 a month.

Daniel

24th October 2010, 08:29

I also tried an N8 as well. Seemed good but I'd take a desire over it.

Mark

24th October 2010, 09:02

Have you looked at expansys?

Daniel

24th October 2010, 09:04

Yeah. No prices yet. They only had the trophy priced up.

pino

24th October 2010, 11:00

Pino. Do try a Windows Phone 7 phone too. HTC 7 Mozart and the Samsung Omnia 7 would be my choice.

I want to be sure 100% this time so I am going to give a chance to these mobiles too before I make my final decision. Thanks for the advice :up:

Mark

24th October 2010, 15:32

Windows 7 is brand new cutting edge stuff. Whereas Symbian on the Nokia is about 8 years old and feels it.

Daniel

24th October 2010, 16:51

Windows 7 is brand new cutting edge stuff. Whereas Symbian on the Nokia is about 8 years old and feels it.
To be fair Symbian^3 seemed decent enough. There was a moment in the Three shop when I was downgrading my plan and the sales guy gave me the N8 he was using and I did consider the fact that I could walk away with one that day. It feels VERY solid and well built.

Not sure what Windows Phone 7's handsets are coming out in Denmark but I'd try the

HTC 7 Mozart
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/21/htc-7-mozart-review?icid=sphere_blogsmith_inpage_engadget

or

The Samsung Omnia 7

http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/21/htc-7-mozart-review?icid=sphere_blogsmith_inpage_engadget

Or, like Dave Brockman you could go for a HTC Desire which is also a very good phone as well.

pino

25th October 2010, 21:59

No Desire for me, no slot card and 8GB intern memory only. I've got 24 GB at the moment and it's just big enough to keep my fave music ;)

J4MIE

25th October 2010, 22:59

I'd still recommend avoiding the dell streak, although the software is getting better and there will be an upgrade to android 2.2 before the end of the year :s Finding all sorts of nice apps to use however the battery life is still shocking - am I getting too old that I expect a mobile to last more than 24 hours without being charged? :(

Only 19 months left to go on my contract :bounce:

raybak

26th October 2010, 01:46

No Desire for me, no slot card and 8GB intern memory only. I've got 24 GB at the moment and it's just big enough to keep my fave music ;)

I've got the HTC Desire, I have put a 32gb micro sd card in it. Very good phone.

Ray

pino

26th October 2010, 05:54

I've got the HTC Desire, I have put a 32gb micro sd card in it. Very good phone.

Ray

Thanks ray, I must have read a different review or it's... the age :p :

Mark in Oshawa

26th October 2010, 08:35

I just got a few weeks back a Blackberry Curve....as a newbie to the 3g phone thing, I am happy with it. The wife just got an Iphone..so we will just be two different people with our phones..but I love my ability to have the BBM messenger and also be able to type pretty fast on that little keyboard. The Iphone just costs more than I wanted to pay, and has that screen with no keys. Sorry, I like being able to touch type....

You guys can talk all you want about the neat things Androids and Iphones do, but in the end, I phone people, I text people, and look up my email on the phone..THAT's pretty much it...

Dave B

26th October 2010, 08:42

No Desire for me, no slot card and 8GB intern memory only. I've got 24 GB at the moment and it's just big enough to keep my fave music ;)
Incorrect, it has a micro SD slot :)

pino

26th October 2010, 08:48

Incorrect, it has a micro SD slot :)

I must have confused it with another review (reading so many at the moment) :crazy:

Dave B

26th October 2010, 08:50

Just noticed that. It's my age :p

Daniel

26th October 2010, 10:06

If you want expandable storage then the HTC 7 Trophy would be the best Windows 7 Phone to choose. I'm not fussed about storage tbh so it's not a problem for me.

Dave B

26th October 2010, 10:31

I always think that with storage (as well as connectivity speed) you always think you won't need much but as time goes on you realise that you do.

I remember thinking an 80GB hard drive would be plenty, only a few years back, when I started ripping all my music. Now I'm slightly annoyed that the 1TB drive I use for media is nearly full.

Same with the phone: I wasn't that fussed about storage until I got a handset with a decent(ish) camera and MP3 player. Now I've got an 8GB card almost full.

I say you can never have too much storage.

pino

26th October 2010, 11:09

If you want expandable storage then the HTC 7 Trophy would be the best Windows 7 Phone to choose. I'm not fussed about storage tbh so it's not a problem for me.

The N8 has a 16GB intern memory plus you can add up to 48GB in the card-slot, that would be enough...even for me ;)

airshifter

26th October 2010, 12:28

I remember thinking an 80GB hard drive would be plenty, only a few years back, when I started ripping all my music. Now I'm slightly annoyed that the 1TB drive I use for media is nearly full.

When I purchased my first PC, people thought I was insane to upgrade to the 80 meg hard drive. I also "wasted" money on 4 megs of memory.

I agree, it can never be a bad thing to have more storage. I'm surprised more of the phone and mobile market don't make it easier for those that desire it.

I'm glad I'm not 3G superphone concerned. I just want one that fits in my pocket, holds a charge, and makes phone calls. The choices are almost infinite!

J4MIE

26th October 2010, 13:21

I'm glad I'm not 3G superphone concerned. I just want one that fits in my pocket, holds a charge, and makes phone calls. The choices are almost infinite!

But that means you can't play "Zombie, run!" on your phone :bigcry:

:p :

Daniel

27th October 2010, 10:17

The N8 has a 16GB intern memory plus you can add up to 48GB in the card-slot, that would be enough...even for me ;)

Pino, is there any reason you haven't considered a dedicated MP3 player? A good MP3 player will be better than a phone for music than a phone.

Daniel

27th October 2010, 10:21

But that means you can't play "Zombie, run!" on your phone :bigcry:

:p :

Why would I want to play that when I can play Left 4 Dead on my PC? :p

UF1HVlcXBmA

pino

27th October 2010, 10:35

Pino, is there any reason you haven't considered a dedicated MP3 player? A good MP3 player will be better than a phone for music than a phone.

I have but then I would be forced to carry both the MP3 and a mobile with me, and I don't want to do that. Btw the N96 is an excellent MP3 and an ok mobile so I am not in rush to replace it...will wait for the perfect solution for me ;)

Mark

27th October 2010, 11:02

I have but then I would be forced to carry both the MP3 and a mobile with me, and I don't want to do that. Btw the N96 is an excellent MP3 and an ok mobile so I am not in rush to replace it...will wait for the perfect solution for me ;)

If your N96 is still in working order I'd stick with that for the time being. It is/was a decent phone.

pino

27th October 2010, 11:10

If your N96 is still in working order I'd stick with that for the time being. It is/was a decent phone.

I will probably do that and spend those money in visiting a new rally-event next year :D

Daniel

27th October 2010, 11:29

Well I can safely say that this is the first windows phone 7 post on this forum :P Really like this phone!!!!!

Daniel

27th October 2010, 14:27

Well I've had my Samsung Omnia 7 for 3 and a half hours now and I really really like it :)

Daniel

27th October 2010, 15:55

Just installed a virtual Windows Media Centre remote on my phone. Much awesomeness!

I'm amazed that some sites are still slagging WinPho7 off :confused: It lacks multitasking which is annoying I admit, but they're sorting that out soon but other than that and a few other small problems there's not a whole lot wrong with it.

Zico

27th October 2010, 20:32

Jag_Warrior

27th October 2010, 20:50

I've just bought my eldest son an Ipod touch 4G, he's always wanted one but I never thought I'd be impressed enough to get him one. Its basically an Iphone 4 without the phone capability. Good value Imo and a really neat gadget. Im really impressed by the HD video recording and that stunning screen resolution and looking forwards to trying out its GPS capabilities for when we next go Geo-caching.

I'm considering proposing marriage to mine. We've happily spent every day together since I got it a few weeks ago. We haven't even had our first fight. Amazing little device! And BTW, you can use it as a phone. There are a couple of apps that allow you to use it as a phone if you're within WiFi range (Skype probably being the most popular). And the Peel accessory allows it to be used as a 3G phone. Verizon also has some sort of service that allows it to be used as a WiFi phone. I think it's called MiFi service. It's some sort of portable Hot Spot service that I don't know much about... YET! :)

GridGirl

27th October 2010, 21:33

.....and looking forwards to trying out its GPS capabilities for when we next go Geo-caching.

Dont forget to buy the Geo-cashing app then. I think it's come down in price considerably since we bought it. Only TomTom was more expensive. Although this was some time ago.

Andrewmcm

27th October 2010, 21:48

I'm amazed that some sites are still slagging WinPho7 off :confused: It lacks multitasking which is annoying I admit, but they're sorting that out soon but other than that and a few other small problems there's not a whole lot wrong with it.

And how many Apple people said that with the first few versions of the iPhone OS.....? Ahhh subjectivity, isn't it great!

Zico

27th October 2010, 22:09

I'm considering proposing marriage to mine. We've happily spent every day together since I got it a few weeks ago. We haven't even had our first fight. Amazing little device! And BTW, you can use it as a phone. There are a couple of apps that allow you to use it as a phone if you're within WiFi range (Skype probably being the most popular). And the Peel accessory allows it to be used as a 3G phone. Verizon also has some sort of service that allows it to be used as a WiFi phone. I think it's called MiFi service. It's some sort of portable Hot Spot service that I don't know much about... YET! :)

I had read about the Wifi/skype phone capability but because we live right out in the sticks it would only work at home. I didn't know about Peel GSM accessory, from what I've read it seems that it will only provide basic GPRS phone functions, has a few bugs but priced at £63 on Ebay it is still good value. Unfortunately I'd have to jailbreak the Ipod which would invalidate the warranty.

The Mifi portable wireless hotspot looks really good... the ability to use skype (£7.50 a month for 1GB of data over an 18-month contract) pretty much anywhere that your service providers coverage covers makes it the winner for me, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJmIjffyReQ it also looks a better quality and more competant product.

Thanks for the heads up!

Daniel

27th October 2010, 22:10

And how many Apple people said that with the first few versions of the iPhone OS.....? Ahhh subjectivity, isn't it great!
The thing is Microsoft will do it in a matter of months and I won't have to pay nada for the update. If it were Apple you'd be buying a new phone or at least paying for the update.

WinPh7 is missing the following

3rd party app multitasking (it's going to get it)
Copy+Paste (it's going to get it very soon)
Flash support (it's going to get it and iOS is never getting it because Steve wants to protect his cash cow)

If you actually tried a WinPho7 device you'd see just how good it is even if the full featureset isn't there yet.

Seriously, stop being a biased little Apple fanboi and try one out and appreciate the intelligent/forward thinking design of the UI

Daniel

27th October 2010, 22:11

Dont forget to buy the Geo-cashing app then. I think it's come down in price considerably since we bought it. Only TomTom was more expensive. Although this was some time ago.

Why would he want to ruin a walk through perfectly good scenery? :p

GridGirl

27th October 2010, 23:03

But at least he would be out in decent scenery. Sounds better than playing Left for dead indoors on a pc. :p

Daniel

27th October 2010, 23:08

Hehe no zombies in the British countryside though :p

race aficionado

27th October 2010, 23:45

. . . If it were Apple you'd be buying a new phone or at least paying for the update.

Daniel.
The updates so far have been free. You just download them from iTunes

And as for the Windows phone, I hope they do come up with something that you can rave about.

Variety is the spice of life.

:s mokin:

airshifter

28th October 2010, 04:53

Daniel.
The updates so far have been free. You just download them from iTunes

And as for the Windows phone, I hope they do come up with something that you can rave about.

Variety is the spice of life.

:s mokin:

Don't tell him that Race.. please. He still thinks anything with the name "Windows" involved is going to be "fixed" soon. I've remembered hearing that story ever since I've owned Windows!

I look forward to hearing how WinPhone9.5 Revision B, Service Pack 2 problems have been sorted out. :D

Mark

28th October 2010, 07:27

Geocaching app is £5.99, pricey as apps go, but I think for the amount of times I use it, it's probably one of the best value apps I have!

It does help to have premium membership on the geocaching.com so you can download pocket queries so you don't have to rely on the phone network.

Mark

28th October 2010, 07:34

Apple does indeed release a new OS every year and it's free! I don't recall Microsoft ever releasing Windows Mobile updates for free, you had to buy a new phone!

It's strange that MS have decided to release an OS which is clearly unfinished. A year ago it would have been fine, but no multitasking and no copy+paste is just handing their competitors a rod to beat them with! Sure it'll be updated, but there will be lots of publicity now about what it can't do, but the update will no doubt appear with little fanfare and there won't be many stories printed about what it can do!

I know they could keep it in development forever but that's a fairly major omission, and a surprising one since previous versions of Windows Mobile - even my iPaq back in 2003 did multitasking and copy+paste!

Daniel

28th October 2010, 07:36

Daniel.
The updates so far have been free. You just download them from iTunes

And as for the Windows phone, I hope they do come up with something that you can rave about.

Variety is the spice of life.

:s mokin:

My apologies then, not quite sure where I got confused :p

For people like Andrewmcm and airshifter who seem to want to slag off every Microsoft product, I say this, Windows mobile has been rubbish for years and I would never buy a windows mobile product before Windows Phone 7.

People who buy Microsoft stuff are honest about its faults, they admit that Pre WinPho7, Windows mobile wasn't up to much and that Vista was nowhere near as good as it could have been and that Windows 7 is what people really wanted.

Go try one, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Mark

28th October 2010, 08:15

Dave B

28th October 2010, 19:30

Jag_Warrior

28th October 2010, 19:41

One thing about phones at the moment is in the same way as a desktop OS is that once you're in, you're in! People using iOS, Android, WM7, whatever will likely pay for several applications for their device and become accustomed to using them. Switching to another device further down the line will at the very least involve paying for those applications again, if they are even available for that platform.

So when it comes time to upgrade you are much more likely to take the newest version of something that can run all your existing software rather than something entirely different. Microsoft (and PCs) have been using this trick since the year dot!

I think that's very true. I think it's even more true with older people (not OLD, just older! :D ). One of the primary reasons that I continue to run older versions of some trading and business software is because the newer versions have features that would require me to essentially relearn the programs. Often they're the same features that I have now, but the process of getting from A-Z changes with the newer versions. And the same is true of smartphones. My girl, her sister and brother-in-law all have iPhones (and Macs). So even before I got the iPod Touch, I was somewhat familiar with the user interface... and found it intuitive and intriguing. So now, if I was to get a smartphone, I would likely go for an iPhone. If not an iPhone, I'd probably look at an iPhone-like device (like the HTC Incredible?) running Android. After that, Blackberry and this new Win Phone 7 might be options. But I've never cared for Blackberries and even refused to carry one where I used to work. And so far, I haven't heard of anything that really sets the Win Phone 7 apart from the crowd (in a way that I care about). If I was a gamer, I understand it closely links to the Xbox. But I don't have and don't want an Xbox, or any other game system. So far, I just haven't heard about a game-changing feature that the Win Phone 7 has that would compel me to buy one, in the event that I decide to get a smartphone.

From what I've read on various sites, the Win Phone 7 is getting decent reviews. But the key issue it's going to have here in the States is whether or not Microsoft will be able to convince the carriers to REALLY back it. Verizon/Vodaphone is now set to get the iPhone next year and they're already doing really well with Android phones. AT&T has made a mint with the iPhone and they're also doing well with Android phones. Sprint/Nextel is also on the Android bandwagon. Other than Nextel, where we got our company phones, I don't recall which ones carry the Blackberry, but I assume most of them do. So long story short, the space is beginning to get crowded. And by being (once again) late to the game, it'll be interesting to see what strategy Microsoft chooses, and whether or not they'll be able to put any sort of meaningful dent in the market.

Will MSFT be a (real) player in the smartphone market, or just an also-ran? Time will tell...

Daniel

28th October 2010, 22:01

I think that's very true. I think it's even more true with older people (not OLD, just older! :D ). One of the primary reasons that I continue to run older versions of some trading and business software is because the newer versions have features that would require me to essentially relearn the programs. Often they're the same features that I have now, but the process of getting from A-Z changes with the newer versions. And the same is true of smartphones. My girl, her sister and brother-in-law all have iPhones (and Macs). So even before I got the iPod Touch, I was somewhat familiar with the user interface... and found it intuitive and intriguing. So now, if I was to get a smartphone, I would likely go for an iPhone. If not an iPhone, I'd probably look at an iPhone-like device (like the HTC Incredible?) running Android. After that, Blackberry and this new Win Phone 7 might be options. But I've never cared for Blackberries and even refused to carry one where I used to work. And so far, I haven't heard of anything that really sets the Win Phone 7 apart from the crowd (in a way that I care about). If I was a gamer, I understand it closely links to the Xbox. But I don't have and don't want an Xbox, or any other game system. So far, I just haven't heard about a game-changing feature that the Win Phone 7 has that would compel me to buy one, in the event that I decide to get a smartphone.

From what I've read on various sites, the Win Phone 7 is getting decent reviews. But the key issue it's going to have here in the States is whether or not Microsoft will be able to convince the carriers to REALLY back it. Verizon/Vodaphone is now set to get the iPhone next year and they're already doing really well with Android phones. AT&T has made a mint with the iPhone and they're also doing well with Android phones. Sprint/Nextel is also on the Android bandwagon. Other than Nextel, where we got our company phones, I don't recall which ones carry the Blackberry, but I assume most of them do. So long story short, the space is beginning to get crowded. And by being (once again) late to the game, it'll be interesting to see what strategy Microsoft chooses, and whether or not they'll be able to put any sort of meaningful dent in the market.

Will MSFT be a (real) player in the smartphone market, or just an also-ran? Time will tell...
Windows Phone 7 doesn't bring anything OMFGWTFBBQ special to the table, these days there's little that can amaze people. It's simply a very competent phone with a lot of things integrated. To look for a particular feature in WP7 is to miss the point a bit. It integrates a whole lot of stuff very well. Facebook, Windows live, Xbox Live, Skydrive, Office, Sharepoint etc etc all integrate very well and very deeply.

Use one and I'll be very surprised if even the dedicated Mac users don't at least see some merit in it. Well known Apple lover Stephen Fry even likes WP7...... http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/oct/12/stephen-fry-windows-phone-7

Andrewmcm

29th October 2010, 00:49

Actually Daniel, I am as much of an Apple "fanboi" as you are. At this stage in my life I am wise enough to make my own mind up about the electronic products that I purchase - it just so happens that I have purchased an iPhone and use a Macbook Pro for work because they suit my needs the best. When it comes to making purchases in the future I will survey the market at the time and choose the configuration that is right for me, be it Samsung, Nokia, Apple, Microsoft or whatever.

And in keeping with this objectivity, you should try an iOS/Symbian/Android Phone. You know, just for comparison's sake. I'm sure you'd dislike being called a fanboi as much as I would.

Stephen Fry is an open-minded kind of guy. Using Apple products does not automatically make one anti-everything-else-made-by-anyone-else.

Andrewmcm

29th October 2010, 01:01

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/oct/24/windows-phone-7-review-htc-hd7 - so Daniel, how do your experiences compare with those of the author of this article?

pino

29th October 2010, 06:01

Seriously, stop being a biased little Apple fanboi and try one out and appreciate the intelligent/forward thinking design of the UI

Daniel, let's discuss this nicely thanks !

Daniel

29th October 2010, 07:50

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/oct/24/windows-phone-7-review-htc-hd7 - so Daniel, how do your experiences compare with those of the author of this article?

The article is OK. But there are a lot of omissions, mistakes and personal preference in there. A little like Richard Hammon marking a car down for being too spacious inside for him. How many times in an article does he say "OMFG said feature doesn't work!!!!!" only to then say Update: I'm a bit of a tool and I've not actually don't my reading which shows that it's done in a particular way or that Microsoft is going to provide an update for it later.

I certainly don't think it's worth a 5/5 or anything, especially because multitasking doesn't work but there's no way it's a 3/5 as this grauniad monkey says.

I think he's wrong to complain about there not being enough information on the screen too. IMHO WP7 strikes the right balance between having too much info on the screen and not enough. If you want tonnes of detail then use a laptop or a PC. I know that sounds like an excuse or something but it isn't.

Here's a review worth reading IMHO
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/20/windows-phone-7-review/

It doesn't gloss over the faults and it provides videos which help show the UI in motion. One thing I will agree with the article you posted is the notification area. I definitely hope that Microsoft release an update to make it stick to the top, this is a phone after all right? Not being able to see battery power and signal strength at all times is a bit of a joke....