WRC mainclass from 2027

[WRCStan]

Are they aiming that WRC27 will replace Rally2 cars alltogether?

Yes.


Discussions wit the FIA, especially Malcolm Wilson.

And if ihe cant commit his Team (M-Sporti) to build a WRC27 car (nor Hyundai) due to limited time, maybe an extension to Rally1.

Otherwise WRC 2027 looks a total mess.

Don't forget the current promoter is still obliged to do it's job until 2034 or whenever it is, or if they get wound up or bankrupt first. You'd need that before the FIA chat with entrants.

M-Sport have complained for years that they cannot sell the Rally1s that are only allowed in WRC, and say they need to sell cars to be commercial viable. If they aren't interested in selling new cars into a vacuum in all the world's championships - they should just wind up business.

There isn't a boat that's leaving where nobody can build a car in the years after 2027. Everything not being perfect for Monte does not mean a death blow for the series. The combined WRC27/Rally2 class is the back up, not Rally1. This 'limited time' thing is fan's impatience. 2027 will be odd, we already knew it.

[Steve Boyd]

Of course wrong word, it is about homologation. This year is the last one when you can homologate new car.
Thank you for the confirmation.

I think it will be mostly Rally2 cars in the top class for quite a few years before there are enough WRC27 cars homologated and built. The new cars will appear at WRC events first but even the requirement to be able to build 10 cars a year won't result in large numbers being available. It took years before R5 cars appeared on any British Rallies after they were launched. Now every small club event has Rally2 & R5 cars. I expect the same to happen with WRC27.

Maybe the way for them to come quicker is for everybody on here to ask their local rally team about supplying a WRC27 car. We only have to ask if we can have one, we don't need to actually place an order but maybe some will then think there's a big demand and start their own development.

[PLuto]

Problem is that most of current Rally2 manufacturers (or at least half of them) is not interested in factory teams or to be in the highest class of rallysport. They are customers oriented... And this WRC27 rules? I think on beginning of next year we will have only one car ready - Toyota...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Next year looks like...

(Factory) GR Yaris WRC27 vs

(Factory) Lancia Rally2; Hyundia Rally2; M-Sport Fiesta Rally2 vs

(Customer Teams) GR Yaris Rally2; Skoda Rally2; Citroen Rally2

[WRCStan]

What's the barriers to entry and incentive for the teams? Just because the top class in combined, it doesn't mean a championship will be open and accessible to every team.

In a combined constructors & teams championship, if WRC27 constructors have to do a minimum 50% of rounds, should that be enforced on Rally2 teams too? Or does that give the constructors an acceptable advantage in the standings?

Even with a constructors only championship with an optimistic 5 constructors, there could still be rounds without constructors championship points being fought.

Either way, how many teams are going to be in South America, Saudi and Japan?

Maybe a promoter steps in, but who do they pick and on what basis?

Good luck to those who have to figure this out.

[deephouse]

I think Toyota wants a challenge and they probably being the only one ready with WRC27 car in time, I think they will seriously think what car they will run against others. Of course they want to win, but they want to win against someone and not no one. Probably Prospeed will not be ready and having almost no information on them just confirms they will not be any opponent at the time. I think that's why Toyota is waiting with announcement what they will do. Everyone wait each others and no one wants to be the first (I don't count Prospeed, because I'm very sceptical about that project).

The barrier for teams will be entry fee which I think someone mentioned is more than the car actually "costs". Many privateers don't have a budget and that's why they enter in WRC2 because it's way cheaper. Next year when there will probably be no WRC2 or completely reconstructed I can't imagine how things will be screwed up.

Also I think I read somewhere that people are pushing for some kind of changes for cars, because some tests suggest that WRC27 car could be slower than Rally2 car.

As WRCStan said, things are more and more complicated. I just don't want to believe there some kind of logic for that.

[WRCStan]

I suspect Prospeed are doing dev work for the technical department, somebody had to. Shouldn't be issues with them being ready.

[typhoon]

Some interesting insights from Project Rally One...

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2026/02/02/what-a-tuner-built-wrc27-car-will-look-like-prospeeds-rally-one/

[Steve Boyd]

The barrier for teams will be entry fee which I think someone mentioned is more than the car actually "costs". Many privateers don't have a budget and that's why they enter in WRC2 because it's way cheaper. Next year when there will probably be no WRC2 or completely reconstructed I can't imagine how things will be screwed up.The current entry fees, as stated in Appenxix VI of "2026 FIA WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP – SPORTING REGULATIONS" are:
WRC Manufacturer € 441 352 - for a 2 or 3 car team with P1 status
WRC Team € 30 350 - for a 1 car team with P1 or P2 status
WRC2 Manufacturer € 135 385 - for a 1 or 2 car team with P2 status
WRC2 Team € 13 543 - for a 1 or 2 car team with P2 status
WRC2 Driver € 4 045 - for a 1 car team with P2 status

Event entry fees are additional to the fees above.

[skarderud]

Some interesting insights from Project Rally One...

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2026/02/02/what-a-tuner-built-wrc27-car-will-look-like-prospeeds-rally-one/Thanks!

I think they have some good points there!
Really hope they suceed!

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[Franky]

With the changes in the automotive industry and the quite big changes that will be in WRC, maybe it is time to review also the financial side of the top class. As WRC is the pinnacle of non-circuit racing championships, then why not create financial incentive for teams like it's in F1. At the end of the season a pot of finances is divided between the teams based on the final standings.

The current system of "you pay us to compete" works only for manufacturers but if it will be mostly private teams, then why should anyone compete in the top class. At the end of the day motorsport is still a business and if it doesn't make financially sense, not much will happen.

[wyler]

With the changes in the automotive industry and the quite big changes that will be in WRC, maybe it is time to review also the financial side of the top class. As WRC is the pinnacle of non-circuit racing championships, then why not create financial incentive for teams like it's in F1. At the end of the season a pot of finances is divided between the teams based on the final standings.

The current system of "you pay us to compete" works only for manufacturers but if it will be mostly private teams, then why should anyone compete in the top class. At the end of the day motorsport is still a business and if it doesn't make financially sense, not much will happen.

point is: how do they get the money for the pot?

[rallyfiend]

point is: how do they get the money for the pot?

If WRC Promoter is being sold for the reported amount of 300m, then there is money being made...

[typhoon]

If WRC Promoter is being sold for the reported amount of 300m, then there is money being made...

Considering they're selling WRC rights to Sky Sports Italy for a reported 350K per year (that was the value of the contract a couple years ago), adjusting it for each market reach, they probably get 30M per season only with TV rights.

If they will be able to revamp the series with new Constructors and brands, plus the global sponsorships/calendar fees/merch/licenses, I think they could easily reach some 70-80M per season.

Enough money to pay some money for a look-alike "Concorde Agreement" in WRC.

[deephouse]

WRC is making money but just for a pinch of people

[wyler]

Considering they're selling WRC rights to Sky Sports Italy for a reported 350K per year (that was the value of the contract a couple years ago), adjusting it for each market reach, they probably get 30M per season only with TV rights.

If they will be able to revamp the series with new Constructors and brands, plus the global sponsorships/calendar fees/merch/licenses, I think they could easily reach some 70-80M per season.

Enough money to pay some money for a look-alike "Concorde Agreement" in WRC.

a lot of "if", and on the other side, no idea of the cost of running it.
honestly, not sure wrc is so whealty...

[typhoon]

I'm a former WRC journo from Italy and I still have some connections to have an overall idea, no worries :)

[PLuto]

I'm a former WRC journo from Italy and I still have some connections to have an overall idea, no worries :)

You mean about new 2027 cars? Or involvement of new manufacturers? Or about new promoter? I also have some contacts and I am very sceptical about future...

[WRCStan]

Only thing different with rally to F1 is access to a market. If, and simplifying everything, one sells 40 cars per year at the cost cap, there's revenue of €13,800,000 per year. I don't know where the profit line is, that's up to those who play, but money is there before considering the circus.

[wyler]

I'm a former WRC journo from Italy and I still have some connections to have an overall idea, no worries :)

cool, so can u elaborate a bit more?

[typhoon]

cool, so can u elaborate a bit more?

Sure! I'll DM you so I won't off topic here :)

[wyler]

Sure! I'll DM you so I won't off topic here :)

don't care in dm, is totally in topic... it's for the sake of the discussion.
i'm just curious to understand (and sure other people here also) how much the wrc is worthy/wealthy.

[PLuto]

Sure! I'll DM you so I won't off topic here :)

Like wyler wrote, we all are interested...

[typhoon]

So, basically that's how it is.

WRC Promoter can get enough money from TV rights, deducted the costs of producing it.

TV production of a WRC event usually needs the following:
1 - A Plane (for the TV signal of stage-side cameras and on-boards to be broadcasted to the mobile Outside Broadcast vans in the Service Park - which produces the "stage mix" and the "onboard mix", therefore to the remote TV control at NEP Finland, where the final product is then mixed and the "global feed" is made and transmitted to the broadcasters)
2 - At least 2 Helicopters (so that while one of them refuels, the other one can continue broadcasting and follow the action)
TV crew
3 - A fully-equipped OB van with its crew
4 - Camera operators on the stages and service

This has an amount of about 350/400K euros per each WRC rally.

Considering that a country like Italy, combining the TV rights sold to Pay TV Sky Sports (for live content) and Free-To-Air channel Rai Sport (highlights packages), it's way above the amount needed for a WRC event, it just needs 14 such deals to cover the whole production for the full season.

Broadcast deals for cross-country networks (like Sony for south-east Asia, etc.) are agreed for much more money than that, so at the end of the year there's quite a big profit on that with the championship as it is. Same applies for TV deals that includes All-Live, which is a premium product than the normal package of 5-6 live stages sold to pay TV. Amounts differs country-by-country, market-by-market and is negotiated based on many factors, like having a "national hero", an event in the specific country, a sponsor that both invest in the championship/teams/drivers that wants to vehicle it through their targeted markets (again Italian example: Toyota fully-sponsored the broadcast on Sky Sports, which bought them at basically half the price, since the other half was covered by that guaranteed sponsorship).

If (big if) the championship reaches a good increase in viewership, with new fresh talents and some more action in terms of different Constructors and eye-catching drivers (like Solberg or Sesks both on full season), those TV deals will be even more profitable.

With that being said, I truly think that the costs for producing WRC on TV is way covered and there's enough money for the teams to be shared. In this case I'm excluding all the calendar fees, licenses for products and gaming, merchandising, global sponsorships, etc.

That's why I say the Promoter can easily help teams with some funding, by doing something similar to a "Concorde Agreement" also in WRC.

If I was the Promoter, I would have worked out also a deal with a Logistic Partner (to lower teams' shipping costs), even for 1 euro cash, but with some bulk discounts for the shipping of cars and material. WTCC (=Eurosport) did such a deal with DHL, which didn't pay any money for the TV visibility and marketing, but instead offered great price discounts to the teams to move for fly-away races in Macau, etc.

[wyler]

So, basically that's how it is.

WRC Promoter can get enough money from TV rights, deducted the costs of producing it.

TV production of a WRC event usually needs the following:
1 - A Plane (for the TV signal of stage-side cameras and on-boards to be broadcasted to the mobile Outside Broadcast vans in the Service Park - which produces the "stage mix" and the "onboard mix", therefore to the remote TV control at NEP Finland, where the final product is then mixed and the "global feed" is made and transmitted to the broadcasters)
2 - At least 2 Helicopters (so that while one of them refuels, the other one can continue broadcasting and follow the action)
TV crew
3 - A fully-equipped OB van with its crew
4 - Camera operators on the stages and service

This has an amount of about 350/400K euros per each WRC rally.

Considering that a country like Italy, combining the TV rights sold to Pay TV Sky Sports (for live content) and Free-To-Air channel Rai Sport (highlights packages), it's way above the amount needed for a WRC event, it just needs 14 such deals to cover the whole production for the full season.

Broadcast deals for cross-country networks (like Sony for south-east Asia, etc.) are agreed for much more money than that, so at the end of the year there's quite a big profit on that with the championship as it is. Same applies for TV deals that includes All-Live, which is a premium product than the normal package of 5-6 live stages sold to pay TV. Amounts differs country-by-country, market-by-market and is negotiated based on many factors, like having a "national hero", an event in the specific country, a sponsor that both invest in the championship/teams/drivers that wants to vehicle it through their targeted markets (again Italian example: Toyota fully-sponsored the broadcast on Sky Sports, which bought them at basically half the price, since the other half was covered by that guaranteed sponsorship).

If (big if) the championship reaches a good increase in viewership, with new fresh talents and some more action in terms of different Constructors and eye-catching drivers (like Solberg or Sesks both on full season), those TV deals will be even more profitable.

With that being said, I truly think that the costs for producing WRC on TV is way covered and there's enough money for the teams to be shared. In this case I'm excluding all the calendar fees, licenses for products and gaming, merchandising, global sponsorships, etc.

That's why I say the Promoter can easily help teams with some funding, by doing something similar to a "Concorde Agreement" also in WRC.

If I was the Promoter, I would have worked out also a deal with a Logistic Partner (to lower teams' shipping costs), even for 1 euro cash, but with some bulk discounts for the shipping of cars and material. WTCC (=Eurosport) did such a deal with DHL, which didn't pay any money for the TV visibility and marketing, but instead offered great price discounts to the teams to move for fly-away races in Macau, etc.

i think there was a logistic agreement of that kind in the past ( at least some rumors about it on this forum)

and, by the way, maybe it's just me, but the dm section of the forum is broken...

[WRCStan]

The Promoter does 'help' Rally1 and Rally2 teams already, allegedly.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Via Rally-Journal speaking with Robert Virves...

'The technical regulations for the top category of the World Rally Championship will change after the current season, and Virves is already partly looking ahead to 2027.

“This is certainly a very important year for the future. It seems that next season the competition in Rally2 cars may become even more intense, as there are no reports of WRC27 cars coming onto the stages in large numbers,” Virves reflected.'

[Fast Eddie WRC]

What are peoples' thoughts on the older drivers (Ogier, Neuville, Evans) retiring after 2026 ?

Will they decide the change in Regs to Rally2-spec and the drop in performance is the right time to leave WRC to the next generation ?

[focus206]

What are peoples' thoughts on the older drivers (Ogier, Neuville, Evans) retiring after 2026 ?

Will they decide the change in Regs to Rally2-spec and the drop in performance is the right time to leave WRC to the next generation ?

It will depend from their taste. I think Toyota and Hyundai (if it will be there) will try to convince Ogier and Neuville to do at least another year, since nobody knows who will adapt better to those regs. But if Hyundai will be there with today's Rally2, I don't see a point in Neuville driving with 0 chances.
If Evans doesn't win this year's title, I'm sure he won't call it quit yet.

[deephouse]

Nobody will retire, actually there is a quite bigger chance that drivers will come back, because there will might be more seat available.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I am kind of hoping they do retire and give us and the Championship a kind of fresh start under the new Regs.

Ogier has well had his time (and money), ditto Neuville (and wont like less performance), plus Evans (especially if he wins the '26 WDC).

The Manufacturer teams 2027 line-ups could be:

Toyota - Solberg, Katsuta, Pajari
Hyundai - Fourmaux, Lappi
MSport - Armstrong, Sesks

As for others actually coming back... well possibly, but more likely in privateer teams running Rally2 Toyota's, Skoda's & Lancia's.

[PLuto]

Via Rally-Journal speaking with Robert Virves...

'The technical regulations for the top category of the World Rally Championship will change after the current season, and Virves is already partly looking ahead to 2027.

“This is certainly a very important year for the future. It seems that next season the competition in Rally2 cars may become even more intense, as there are no reports of WRC27 cars coming onto the stages in large numbers,” Virves reflected.'

No surprise. Everybody is expecting that next year will be mainly about Rally2. Lot of drivers is focusing last two seasons with this target...

[PLuto]

Nobody will retire, actually there is a quite bigger chance that drivers will come back, because there will might be more seat available.

Are you sure? Now they were in top class, with unique cars. With Rally2 machinery, also "privateers" will be able to fight for top places. Especially on events where later starting position can be big advantage.

Personally I think that lot of older drivers will retire after this season...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I dont know if it's a relevant precedent, but after Group B was banned in at the end of 1986, most top drivers continued in the much less powerful Group A Cars....

[deephouse]

I honestly think that even Tanak will come back, and Rovanpera also if he will be nowhere in single seaters, but he shows some promise, so I think he will not give up yet. And with so many drivers comiting on this season in WRC2, we can only assume that the championship will be stiff even more next year. So many of current Rally1 drivers also claiming they will drive as long as they will enjoy it. Ogier I think will continue as it is (except if he wins 26 title), then he will probably drive less events, but he will surely not stop.

[Steve Boyd]

Ogier I think will continue as it is (except if he wins 26 title), then he will probably drive less events, but he will surely not stop.Another couple of results like the Monté and I think Ogier will be out before the end of the season.

[M3 Jambo]

I thonk he'll want to have one more shot at the Monte next year and likely call it quits after that.

[EstWRC]

I honestly think that even Tanak will come back, and Rovanpera also if he will be nowhere in single seaters, but he shows some promise, so I think he will not give up yet. And with so many drivers comiting on this season in WRC2, we can only assume that the championship will be stiff even more next year. So many of current Rally1 drivers also claiming they will drive as long as they will enjoy it. Ogier I think will continue as it is (except if he wins 26 title), then he will probably drive less events, but he will surely not stop.

i think Tänak will only come back if he gets the Toyota seat for next year.

at least this my assumption and feeling.

[saco0o]

big names will eventually compete on the R5s in the next era (not full time, probably? but thats ok) and i can almost bet money that they are all going to be saying stuff like "it was the most fun I had", "I have never been happier", "more racers can compete with these affordable R5s and thats what rally is all about". Things get more fun when theres less corporate pressure, we know that.

[rallyfiend]

The top lads are more worried that the move to Rally2 will result in salaries being reduced.

Why should anyone get paid 3-5 million to drive a car that anyone can drive?

Most of them will walk if there's less money for them. Not too surprising. I wouldn't keep doing my same job for a lot less money....

[wyler]

mmm top guys always defended more powerful and fun car, they ll stay on that line.
(with all the reasons, imho)

[WRCStan]

The top lads are more worried that the move to Rally2 will result in salaries being reduced.

I don't think 'moving to Rally2' should take the blame for 'reduced salaries'. Too much other stuff going on.

[deephouse]

If the competion will increase, more teams, more sponsors, more recognition, more spectacle, more on the line... That only means that salaries will go up and not down.

[WRCStan]

If the competion will increase, more teams, more sponsors, more recognition, more spectacle, more on the line... That only means that salaries will go up and not down.

Paid from the magic money tree.

[saco0o]

If the competion will increase, more teams, more sponsors, more recognition, more spectacle, more on the line... That only means that salaries will go up and not down.

not so sure. i see wrc getting more like erc, u'know? more competitors (unless new promote goes crazy on the entry fees), but it feels like its going to be more about racers spending their money to compete.
im fine with that. if ERC can attract tons of entries and have good competition, WRC will have no problem there

[Fast Eddie WRC]

mmm top guys always defended more powerful and fun car, they ll stay on that line.
(with all the reasons, imho)

I agree. I cant see the older guys like Ogier, Neuville, Evans (& Tanak) wanting to drop down to Rally2 speed after 10 years in the WRC / Rally1 Cars.

Also a lot depends if Hyundai and M-Sport stay and if they promise to build WRC27 Cars asap.

[denkimi]

I agree. I cant see the older guys like Ogier, Neuville, Evans (& Tanak) wanting to drop down to Rally2 speed after 10 years in the WRC / Rally1 Cars.

Also a lot depends if Hyundai and M-Sport stay and if they promise to build WRC27 Cars asap.
It's not like they will have a choice, so they will all just do it.

[deephouse]

If they were like over 40, yes. Someone might call it quits. But only Ogier and Sordo are, but Sordo is not a real player here, Ogier doesn't have any other plans and I think also isn't as hungry as Loeb for many different trophies. Ogier I think he want to have another title to be the greatest in WRC ever. Maybe then he will start thinking that he might actually be done. Or if Toyota will no longer needing him, as he also provides valuable manufacturer points (I honestly think that all other guys at Toyota could just do well without him). But right now we all need Ogier, as he is title contender and bring some spectacle to the sport. Recently two of those left the sport, and we wait so long to have such a big number of champions competing at the world stages. Maybe Solberg could join the club, but until then Ogier can stay.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

After 10 years of big power and huge aero, the cars allowed in 2027 will be a huge drop for these older guys. It will be a massive change and quite a lot to adapt to an inferior machine.

There's also the fact that they'll have to compete with all the other former Rally2 drivers on the same level and no longer being one of the elite in the top cars.

[Kenneth]

Or maybe some of them will be afraid that they will be losing against these WRC2 guys, as WRC will no longer be gatekeeped by lack of seats and huge jump in performance.

[deephouse]

Didn't somewhere says that something will need to be happened with new cars, since early "data" shows it would be slower than current Rally2 cars. Yes we will have maybe 6-8 of these cars (if we count Toyota 6 and 2 of Prospeed, haha). But also considering that Hyundai and M-Sport will have bigger budgets, better preparations than all other guys. But it's possible that those elite drivers will not be so elite anymore.

[Kenneth]

Renault continues to cut down their motorsport activities and after axing F1 engines, they are pulling out of WEC and Dakar/W2RC at the end of this year. So there goes any hopes of their return in top class rallying (but I choose to be in delusion and I hope they just want to join a motorsport where they can sell the cars to customers).

[deephouse]

Clio would be just perfect for WRC. And I don't mean Rally3.

[denkimi]

Clio would be just perfect for WRC. And I don't mean Rally3.

or the new r5 turbo, if we go to spaceframes. It's electric, but we can use the bodywork.

https://static.moniteurautomobile.be/clients/moniteur/content/medias/images/news/43000/700/40/renault_5_turbo_3e.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ford to revive the Fiesta, but it too will be EV-only...

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/fiesta/news/new-ford-fiesta-2028

[Fast Eddie WRC]

But one Hyundai market is happy to pay emissions fines to keep selling the N Cars with petrol power...

https://torquecafe.com/hyundai-petrol-powered-hero-cars-worth-millions-in-fines/

[wyler]

rumors about m-sport leaving ford to go to china...strange it has not come out here!

(https://www.instagram.com/p/DU7ueihjQjU/) -don't think very reliable source...-

[typhoon]

rumors about m-sport leaving ford to go to china...strange it has not come out here!

(https://www.instagram.com/p/DU7ueihjQjU/) -don't think very reliable source...-

That's more reliable, as it's the magazine's website itself: https://www.tuttorally.news/ford-dice-addio-al-wrc/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

This is just a re-hash of the story from months ago (no Ford, possible Chinese brand coming) which Rich Millener said had no truth.

The Italian site is using the silence and information void and making assumptions.There's still no hard evidence or quotes from M-Sport.

[deephouse]

Also Jon did recently a video talking about Wilson hinting at new manufacturer commiting to WRC27 (for those who don't know who that is, check out his channel on YT, Maximum Attack Rallying - he is kinda rallying influencer, yes we got one too).

It isn't mentioned anything else just that there is one manufacturer, which isn't involved in WRC right now.

I was searching for that interview but sadly can't find it anywhere (I think that it was mentioned Autosport).

And Lynk&Co have latest hint, so there is a place where is smoke.

There is multiple sites in different languages which have random rumours about Wilson, Lynk&Co, M-Sport, Ford, and that's it. We will see what is true, if there is actually "new manufacturer at all".

[WRCStan]

Also Jon did recently a video talking about Wilson hinting at new manufacturer commiting to WRC27 (for those who don't know who that is, check out his channel on YT, Maximum Attack Rallying - he is kinda rallying influencer, yes we got one too).

It isn't mentioned anything else just that there is one manufacturer, which isn't involved in WRC right now.

I was searching for that interview but sadly can't find it anywhere (I think that it was mentioned Autosport).

It was Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/rally-hero-wilson-we-need-build-wrcs-profile-back), and MW is quoted as saying:

"The new 2027 technical regulations - which will allow top-level manufacturer teams to design and build their own cars ... ...Right now, one new manufacturer has committed to participating that isn’t involved this season and another is very close."

He didn't explain the constructor/tuner thing so IMO he talks of Project Rally1 plus somebody else being close.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HBnqYwmXIAAwMNf?format=jpg&name=small

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The above is just a prototype of how the car would look. It's not a prototype for testing, that hasnt been built yet.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/first-image-of-project-rally-one-car-revealed/

[Kenneth]

Lmao what a great photoshop skills. It reminds me the 00s/10s virtual tuning trend, where people were photoshoping tuning parts on photo of cars.

Did they just decide to troll DirtFish?

[Kenneth]

It's the one of three renders from December with photoshopped parts btw, if it wasn't clear to someone

[WRCStan]

Is it April Fools?

[WRCStan]

:D this is appalling. What a time to be alive. I'm off now to pour chlorine into my eyes.

[wyler]

It's the one of three renders from December with photoshopped parts btw, if it wasn't clear to someone

can i have one with bigger wheel arch, please? :D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I though reading the article they'd put panels and lights on some existing chassis, to show how their car will look. But instead it's nothing but a really poor render. Ridiculous.

[saco0o]

but manufacturers said there wasnt enough time to build new cars for 2027... and then these guys may build cars for 2027? what happening? tho im still hoping we only get R5s for next year tbh... even toyota! just run your R5s, its fine, its fine

[Dimitris]

What

[WRCStan]

I'm still confused with this project. Many people have said it resembles a Porsche Macan, which says one of four things is happening.

a) If it is to be a Porsche Macan, Porsche will be involved. But why would they want Skoda headlights (or just one lol) and why would they back an idea with a Skoda engine (despite if it being necessary by regs)? Not a great branding exercise.

b) If it is to be a ProjectRally Macan, truer to 'tuner' stuff, Porsche will have given license for the bodywork and Macan name, but still why the Skoda headlight?

c) If no Macan branding but Porsche have given license for the bodywork, then why did ProjectRally go with the Macan design?

d) If they are doing all this without even talking to Porsche, surely they're just in for a bad time.

[deephouse]

I think somewhere in the middle of season of 2027 they will bring some cars to the field or if not then there will be ready for 2028. Toyota could be the only one who could actually make a car in time, but they will not contest against themselves, and let's be honest, who can challenge them with Rally2 car? So I think that there will all involved run Rally2 cars until more teams will enter. M-Sport could be on the way of transitioning their car brand (as rumours suggest) and until they will not fix that, they will not start building the car. Hyundai I think will leave, especially if they will be beaten this year (there is strong chance it will happen, as we see they are worse than last year) or run programme with Rally2 cars and private team. Nobody takes seriously Prospeed at all, so I think we can't expect much from them, and surely they will not be ready. I think that everyone is waiting Promoter thing, so we can just hope the sport will not die or be put on hold for next year. That 10 tuner thing isn't real, I just can't believe, because WRC have not been that lucky.

[WRCStan]

With Prospeed and Toyota there is the same number of manufacturers as 2011 with a new spec car. Same year allowed teams to run the manufacturers cars and the lower class cars. Same year the promoter went bump after it had purchased the previous promoter and was losing money each year since. The previous years had cars that were 'too expensive', 'too big, 'too dirty'... and no new manufacturers so something had to be done.

The following years had an even newer promoter, teams, formats, cars.... History might not rhyme, it maybe repeats itself but it doesn't stand still... 2027-2030ish could be as rocky as 2011-2013.

I don't think we'll see the works Rally2s next year that people are expecting.

[giu canbera]

I guess I'm moving more and more into the "none of that actually matter" camp. If Rally2s are the TopClass for 2027, it doesnt matter what other manufacturers, Msport, Toyota, Hyundai or constructors do. Theres Rally2s for anyone with Money and Interest!
Thats positive IMO

[WRCStan]

Whose got money and interest to rally the world in Rally2? That's negative IMO.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

With Rally2 Car drivers being able to enter the WRC top class, many will be more interested and able to raise more money from sponsors.

But enough to do the whole calendar maybe not. So Manufacturers / Tuners with paid drivers are needed.

[giu canbera]

Whose got money and interest to rally the world in Rally2? That's negative IMO.

But if theres nothing above Rally2, then it is the 'top class'. Racers will not mind spending their own money seeing how they do at the 'top level'.

THO I agree with Eddie. Probably not many full timers.... Which is not an issue for me personally. Im one of the ERC fanboys.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Quotes from Emilia Abel, FIA road sport director, including:

"The long-term plan, however, is for the new-generation cars to form the premier class, with Rally2 becoming a separate category.

As of today, 2027 is in place, but it depends a lot on how quickly and how many new cars come. If there is an option that a separate class is possible, then they will definitely get it,” Abel said.

https://rallyjournal.com/intriguing-insights-emerge-over-wrcs-future/

[WRCStan]

RC1 will return with enough players and WRC27 is faster than Rally2. Who knew!?

[deephouse]

We will believe when we will see it. Dacia, Skoda, Hyundai & Lancia already claiming they will not build new car. So who's next? Subaru, M-Sport, Lynk&Co

[Sulland]

I have for many years in here said that we need another group B to Group A transformation.
Manufacturer rally has become too expensive and is very limiting for new talents, due to too few seats in total, and big cooperations keep it safe, with the experienced boys.

I have been fought in here from people that like manufacturer involvment and feel that that is the only way ahead.
The manufacturer map look very much different today than 10-15 years ago, and we now have very few boardmeetings that control the whole car business. Therefore much less possibilities for many teams. And that trend will not stop.

Going back to the most fun period of world rally championship, after Group B was killed off after 86. A few years later the UK and french motorsport industri started to move. And privat teams started to appear, that fought the manufacturers direct.

Hopefully something like that could happen again. Rally will never be like F1, rally in my head is the maverick of motorsport, and FIA cannot put it into the Racing envolope.

I am hoping cost and tech will be pushed back, and driver talent be put to the front.
Us fans and the drivers love to look at and drive Escorts BDAs, BMW M3s and older historic cars. Cars that are hard to drive in the bends, and are driver cars!

if they start up going 3 sec per km ss in the beginning, is ok. Development will happen, but jokers need to be controlled, also to keep cost down, and fun car control up!

[Rallyper]

I have for many years in here said that we need another group B to Group A transformation.
Manufacturer rally has become too expensive and is very limiting for new talents, due to too few seats in total, and big cooperations keep it safe, with the experienced boys.

I have been fought in here from people that like manufacturer involvment and feel that that is the only way ahead.
The manufacturer map look very much different today than 10-15 years ago, and we now have very few boardmeetings that control the whole car business. Therefore much less possibilities for many teams. And that trend will not stop.

Going back to the most fun period of world rally championship, after Group B was killed off after 86. A few years later the UK and french motorsport industri started to move. And privat teams started to appear, that fought the manufacturers direct.

Hopefully something like that could happen again. Rally will never be like F1, rally in my head is the maverick of motorsport, and FIA cannot put it into the Racing envolope.

I am hoping cost and tech will be pushed back, and driver talent be put to the front.
Us fans and the drivers love to look at and drive Escorts BDAs, BMW M3s and older historic cars. Cars that are hard to drive in the bends, and are driver cars!

if they start up going 3 sec per km ss in the beginning, is ok. Development will happen, but jokers need to be controlled, also to keep cost down, and fun car control up!

+100

Always wanted this, bcs the sport has evolved way beyond its heritage.

[focus206]

I have for many years in here said that we need another group B to Group A transformation.
Manufacturer rally has become too expensive and is very limiting for new talents, due to too few seats in total, and big cooperations keep it safe, with the experienced boys.

I have been fought in here from people that like manufacturer involvment and feel that that is the only way ahead.
The manufacturer map look very much different today than 10-15 years ago, and we now have very few boardmeetings that control the whole car business. Therefore much less possibilities for many teams. And that trend will not stop.

Going back to the most fun period of world rally championship, after Group B was killed off after 86. A few years later the UK and french motorsport industri started to move. And privat teams started to appear, that fought the manufacturers direct.

Hopefully something like that could happen again. Rally will never be like F1, rally in my head is the maverick of motorsport, and FIA cannot put it into the Racing envolope.

I am hoping cost and tech will be pushed back, and driver talent be put to the front.
Us fans and the drivers love to look at and drive Escorts BDAs, BMW M3s and older historic cars. Cars that are hard to drive in the bends, and are driver cars!

if they start up going 3 sec per km ss in the beginning, is ok. Development will happen, but jokers need to be controlled, also to keep cost down, and fun car control up!

On paper I agree with you. Unfortunately, it seems that instead of passing from group B to group A, they want to pass from group B to group S. Actually even worse, at least group S was supposed to have street versions.

The problem is that the pool of available and suitable new cars for rallying is small. I don't know how long would Rally2 last as top class (which is more like WRC regs than group A regs), then we'd be left with smaller, less powerful classes. And I imagine that manufacturers would still need to homologate the eventually new Rally3, Rally4, Rally5 to sell to the public, even without a manufacturer team.

For a handful of years it would be okay. But then we have to accept that rallying will become less professional, with slower and less spectacular cars (apart from historic), and interest will drop, we might not get Rally TV anymore, maybe not even WRC, just ERC. If there are no other solutions, to me it's acceptable, it just means WRC has run its course. Some probably prefer the made up funnymobiles with Fabia parts photoshopped on.

[Rallyper]

If drivers are topnotch, the interest is still there, even if everyone drive Fabia 2WD.
However if top class would be WRC2, with Rally2+ cars it would still attract spectators, believe me.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's the big question and an existential problem... what is rallying for in the future ?

In the past it was to sell road cars. To prove your brand's cars had speed, quality and reliability. Most rally cars had a very close road-car relative, even if the rally car was just looking quite the same. And performance cars were fast saloons and hatchbacks, any other proper off-road 4x4s weren't for speed.

Now the market has changed. The hot-hatch has almost died out and people want (or are sold on) big SUVs or cars with loads of luxury and tech. How can these be proven by rallying ? Answers on a postcard...

[focus206]

If drivers are topnotch, the interest is still there, even if everyone drive Fabia 2WD.
However if top class would be WRC2, with Rally2+ cars it would still attract spectators, believe me.

I would still be interested with 2WD Fabia and Clio. But some fans who like flashy spectacular driving more than actual cars, they might not agree. We can hope the interest will not go down too much.

With Rally2, we'd get some very nice competition years, no doubt. But I don't know how long it will last, I don't think many manufacturers are interested in making expensive Rally2 cars, with similar regs to old WRC cars.

[JRodrigues]

Toyota (?) testing in Algarve with brand new car:

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/17xdZApdkA/?mibextid=wwXIfr

[TypeR]

Might be celica ideed like user gigigalli once said..

Interesting

[Andre Oliveira]

Photos by Márcio Pereira

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HCFjeHMXgAAIRCE?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HCFjeMGXIAAncTf?format=jpg&name=medium

[EstWRC]

lol at that rear spoiler

who is driving?

[deephouse]

Toyota 2027 champion. That's how things are done. And others... Well others just scratch their heads and don't know what to do.

Also besides that spoiler from animation Cars, the beast actually looks better than yaris. Maybe we would again see different styles. Just hope it will be true that the field will increase.

[JRodrigues]

Might be celica ideed like user gigigalli once said..

Interesting

It doesn't have to be based on production car anymore.

[deephouse]

Why would Toyota promote fictional car if they have all possible options for representing their cars in WRC. Literally one of few ones that still do small cars, limousines, big suvs, sports cars... Everything. That option is here to increase interest from tuners, because manufacturers simply don't care about this sport and they needed to do something.

[JRodrigues]

Because they can promote the brand, not just one particular model.

just like these ones:

https://monochrome-watches.com/app/uploads/2022/02/Lancia-ECV2-rally-car-1.jpg
https://monochrome-watches.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Audi-RS002-Group-S-rally-car-6.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

One-piece video on here:

https://www.rallye-sport.fr/toyota-en-essais-pour-le-kenya-avec-la-wrc27/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tom Fowler confirms it's a Toyota WRC27 prototype but not what the car is...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyota-looks-set-to-ditch-gr-yaris-for-wrc-2027/

[TheFlyingTuga]

Looks more like the promised MR-2 sillhouette wise than a Celica!

[EstWRC]

So no word who was the driver?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

AI gave a clearer version of the prototype in the video:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HCG6CrHX0AAa1GO?format=jpg&name=medium

[GigiGalliNo1]

It's the Celica and Evans was driving the test car you saw in videos.

[Sal yet again]

Thought I'd seen that shape before..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/388712272425?_skw=scalextric+start&epid=1542299211&itmmeta=01KJF48D24T2ZG57QCCFGA3391&hash=item5a810e9229:g:J38AAeSw6QBodn66&itmprp=enc%3AAQALAAAA8GfYFPkwiKCW4ZNSs2u11xBec39In bXc8pVeoJ8ayqyshMILuf0Ag9eczT8URgUDATiTakz5intinTn %2B2E6zoKzagXqitJUj7idr8Rtwmvl16tAoMAriT7c7Zj5KCgJ ZVUC1hKUf5VCQ6woxcADcaXcJYC3S%2BuNzNewoA3cs%2Fbv3c ZY0KZPYGBRoBcC57E%2FS95TsdNxn8xvtPoqX3RN037DdNSoCe SN9N3esDHX%2FijhvA9Z5wQa8KBHLPt5iuDpEuk5XRLD%2BSMV i%2BB7vzmplfOKBYq99XTH24wh29dTzWNjbfaAz1MxGhrOh9GZ w0ZqraQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7rRoeSTZw

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport likely to battle on with the revised Fiesta Rally2 until 2028...

“We will only be able to start with the Fiesta Rally2 in 2027,” Millener explains. “I also don’t see us bringing a car to the WRC27 regulations this season; that will more likely be the case in 2028. Because first and foremost, we need to see what the details and future plans of the promoter look like.”

Fiesta Rally2, a beacon of hope
Accordingly, Millener is heavily promoting his customer car, which has been generating less and less revenue in recent months as the competition has overtaken it: “Our Fiesta Rally2 has been further developed. In Sweden, Romet Jürgenson was the only non-Toyota driver to set a WRC2 best time. In the upcoming rounds, we want to demonstrate how well our package compares to the best Toyotas, Lancias, or Skodas. I am convinced of the Fiesta's qualities – both in terms of performance and reliability.”

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/m-sport-neues-auto-eher-2028/

[PLuto]

I would still be interested with 2WD Fabia and Clio. But some fans who like flashy spectacular driving more than actual cars, they might not agree. We can hope the interest will not go down too much.

With Rally2, we'd get some very nice competition years, no doubt. But I don't know how long it will last, I don't think many manufacturers are interested in making expensive Rally2 cars, with similar regs to old WRC cars.

This year is the last year when you can homologate Rally2 with current regulations. So it is not about manufacturers interest, beyond this year it will not be possible to homologate new Rally2 car.

[saco0o]

It's the big question and an existential problem... what is rallying for in the future ?

In the past it was to sell road cars. To prove your brand's cars had speed, quality and reliability. Most rally cars had a very close road-car relative, even if the rally car was just looking quite the same. And performance cars were fast saloons and hatchbacks, any other proper off-road 4x4s weren't for speed.

Now the market has changed. The hot-hatch has almost died out and people want (or are sold on) big SUVs or cars with loads of luxury and tech. How can these be proven by rallying ? Answers on a postcard...

today (and for the future) it seems everything is more about about attention and what spaces the promoter/federations can offer to companies to put/sell ads. in their products (circus)... with a decent RoI. "things cant be things anymore, they need to be a platform where companies want to put their ads in exchange for money". maybe not having REDBULL as the promoter could help in that sense? i mean, they dont want much competition, right? hehe

if aston martins are running honda engines, alpine running mercedes and caddilacs running ferraris - theres no point thinking motorsport are about cars and brands anymore. its just marketing =[
I DOUBT there is any Dakar Raptor suspension tech being trasnfered to road cars for when they run around in perfect american/european asphalts

[saco0o]

nice new toyota!! bring it to fight against anyone with a yaris, fiesta, fabia, i20, polo, ypslon, c3. looking good already!
just me or it sounds like the 3cyl engine?

[becher]

nice new toyota!! bring it to fight against anyone with a yaris, fiesta, fabia, i20, polo, ypslon, c3. looking good already!
just me or it sounds like the 3cyl engine?

It is the Rally2 engine, so three cylinders.

[becher]

I'm must admit I think it looks hideous, proportions are off and the thing looks about as fat as a Erwin Wurm Porsche.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I'm must admit I think it looks hideous, proportions are off and the thing looks about as fat as a Erwin Wurm Porsche.

I agree after the initial plessant surprise of it being revealed.

It's a 'coupe', but with that bulbous cabin and high roofline and boxy arches, it doesn't look nice at all.

[focus206]

This year is the last year when you can homologate Rally2 with current regulations. So it is not about manufacturers interest, beyond this year it will not be possible to homologate new Rally2 car.

mine is more like a question of if the manufacturers would actually be interested to build cars with regs similar to Rally2 in the future...

[deephouse]

I think they want to replace Rally2 cars with WRC27 or whatever it will be called, I mean, it's their goal. But I don't know what will then they do with WRC2, WRC3, JWRC in a few years.

[PLuto]

M-Sport likely to battle on with the revised Fiesta Rally2 until 2028...

“We will only be able to start with the Fiesta Rally2 in 2027,” Millener explains. “I also don’t see us bringing a car to the WRC27 regulations this season; that will more likely be the case in 2028. Because first and foremost, we need to see what the details and future plans of the promoter look like.”

Fiesta Rally2, a beacon of hope
Accordingly, Millener is heavily promoting his customer car, which has been generating less and less revenue in recent months as the competition has overtaken it: “Our Fiesta Rally2 has been further developed. In Sweden, Romet Jürgenson was the only non-Toyota driver to set a WRC2 best time. In the upcoming rounds, we want to demonstrate how well our package compares to the best Toyotas, Lancias, or Skodas. I am convinced of the Fiesta's qualities – both in terms of performance and reliability.”

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/m-sport-neues-auto-eher-2028/

This is nothing new, M-Sport told it before they will not do new car for next year. I expect nobody will have new car on beginning of 2027 except Toyota who is working on the car for more than one year.

[WRCStan]

I think they want to replace Rally2 cars with WRC27 or whatever it will be called, I mean, it's their goal. But I don't know what will then they do with WRC2, WRC3, JWRC in a few years.

That's more a question for the new promoter.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's a 'coupe', but with that bulbous cabin and high roofline and boxy arches, it doesn't look nice at all.

Especially without the camoflague...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HCKwP9VaEAA0gve?format=jpg&name=small

[Fast Eddie WRC]

This is nothing new, M-Sport told it before they will not do new car for next year. I expect nobody will have new car on beginning of 2027 except Toyota who is working on the car for more than one year.

But this is 3 months further on and they've still not even decided if they'll build a car at all. They're re still waiting on the new Promoter's plans which could be another few months. And then they have to decide if it's going to be their own car or a Manufacturers and only then start to design, build and test it ! The start of 2028 looks to be a push at that rate.

[WRCStan]

But this is 3 months further on and they've still not even decided if they'll build a car at all. They're re still waiting on the new Promoter's plans which could be another few months. And then they have to decide if it's going to be their own car or a Manufacturers and only then start to design, build and test it ! The start of 2028 looks to be a push at that rate.

Mad when you think the boss of M-Sport is also the Deputy President for the body that is in conversation with the new promoter. Maybe he's also got a position at the new promoter lol.

[PLuto]

We will see if there will be new promoter or only new investor...

[WRCStan]

A new investor without ownership wasn't worth all this charade, and the current promoter was clear it wanted out and has voiced absolutely nothing about the future. A new owner of the current promoter is as good as a new promoter.

[deephouse]

If they even have any option at all, that's the question.

[PLuto]

A new investor without ownership wasn't worth all this charade, and the current promoter was clear it wanted out and has voiced absolutely nothing about the future. A new owner of the current promoter is as good as a new promoter.

If it will be "new owner", but with same people like now and involvement of FIA... ...I am not sure to be a winning combo.

[Andre Oliveira]

Fiesta WRC and Yaris WRC 2017 have now homologation valid till 2027/12

Fiesta R5 (Mk1) with homologation extended till 2026/12
Fiesta Rally2 (Mk2) with homologation extended till 2027/12 (afftects Rally2/3/4/5)
208 T16 with homologation extended till 2027/12
Polo GTI R5 with homologation extended till 2028/12

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Skoda looks like staying with their Rally2 Car..


"We are looking into the new regulations,” boss Hrabánek said briefly to Motorsport aktuell.

“It’s part of the brand’s DNA. Our Fabia is fast and reliable on all surfaces and is the best-selling Rally2 model.”

“That’s why we’ll be entering the 2027 season with this model and will continue to develop it in detail,” Hrabánek said.

[deephouse]

As official team thanks. And Mikkelsen being their 1st driver please

[PLuto]

Skoda will not have official team. And will not build new car for highest category (at least in first year, later maybe as it will not be allowed to build new Rally2 car according to current results).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-f1-direction-wrc-is-about-to-mirror/

[WRCStan]

Also an admission that Toyota are working with the FIA on the details of the regs, thus, that's why they're not published yet. As was described here in pages gone by.

[WRCStan]

Please can somebody remind me what's the latest on Rally2 and Rally2+ upgrade? Struggling to find reliable up-to-date sources. I'm sure I read recently that Rally2+ upgrades are for WRC only.

Let me throw this idea out: WRC2027Rally1 and Rally2+ are both top class in the 2027 constructors/manufacturers championship. Rally2 cars from manufacturers without an entrant into that, and committed to the full season, do not qualify for the '+' upgrades.

Not saying it would happen, but also can't rule it out? It'd sure piss on a few 'privateers having a chance' chips.

[PLuto]

Nothing like Rally2+ doesnt exist...

[deephouse]

Maybe they will handicap somehow WRC27 car to have closer performance to Rally2 car, but don't know why I have a feeling that it would be the opposite.

Also Rally2+ sounds stupid just for WRC. There is only Lancia who would benefit.

I think they will fill the gap with combined categories untill FIA actually find promoter and "constructors" actually decide to come and start building cars. This could last a few years if we consider how quick the things are decided here in our beloved sport.

[M3 Jambo]

If you cap the performance of the WRC27 cars to a level close to the current Rally 2 cars, whats the incentive for Toyota to continue to invest so heavily in their 27 car, and indeed other manufacturors & constructors.

[Rallyper]

Nothing like Rally2+ doesnt exist...

Let´s invent Rally2+ then... ;)

[Kenneth]

Why is everyone so obsesed with Rally2+ when it was made clear for some time that it won't be a thing and WRC27 will be on same level as Rally2s and will replace them long term?

[BobJones]

If you cap the performance of the WRC27 cars to a level close to the current Rally 2 cars, whats the incentive for Toyota to continue to invest so heavily in their 27 car, and indeed other manufacturors & constructors.

They can enter with a car that isn't based on 'supermini' size/shape car (see Yaris, Fiesta, i20, Fabia etc in Rally2, all based on road going cars of that size)

[deephouse]

Also it wouldn't be capped forever. Just until there is a clear path from promoter and enough teams with WRC27 car.

[PLuto]

I think they will fill the gap with combined categories untill FIA actually find promoter and "constructors" actually decide to come and start building cars. This could last a few years if we consider how quick the things are decided here in our beloved sport.

There will be no new promoter. There will be only new investor, but promoter will stay same...

[WRCStan]

Nothing like Rally2+ doesnt exist...

Thanks, sorry everybody for dragging that back.

[becher]

They can enter with a car that isn't based on 'supermini' size/shape car (see Yaris, Fiesta, i20, Fabia etc in Rally2, all based on road going cars of that size)

Nothing but their own intelligence prevented them from building a non supermini Rally2 before either.

[becher]

WRC27 is designed to not only become the new top class, but to give the customer market that is currently in Rally2 a future. Manufacturers aren't building small cars any more which would be a viable base for Rally2,so that category, as successful as it is, is on borrowed time, kind of like Group N was somewhere around 2008/09 or so.

For someone like Toyota who looks to be involved long term it is necessary to build a WRC27 car even if it will be held back to Rally2 standards at first, because it is the only chance this ruleset has. If Toyota is there and a few private constructors + M Sport is there with WRC27 cars by 2028, the FIA can split the classes apart again until Rally2 as we know it now dies. And maybe the whole thing ends up working and attract other manufacturer(s).

If Toyota would be phoning it in with their Rally2 the ruleset is dead and in about three years, maybe five if we are lucky we would be back to square one and looking to replace Rally2 as it is dead by then purely because manufacturers can't/won't sell sensible cars any more at all by then (at least in european markets).

[PLuto]

Question is if WRC27 regulations is a win. I dont have so positive feeling...

[becher]

Question is if WRC27 regulations is a win. I dont have so positive feeling...

Of course. I'm not happy about a lot of things in the new regulations but, the sport is in lots of trouble in regards of possible base cars so....

[deephouse]

So Rally2 cars couldn't be evolved and is strict that the class will die? WRC car never evolved from 1997 to 2016 (or WRC+ further until Rally1)? Right now it seems that everyone is waiting except Toyota and maybe Project Rally One (I'm still very doubtful that this will ever work). But if even after promotor s*it will be clear that there will not be interest, I think Toyota could: 1. Go with Rally2 as all others or 2. Completely left the sport

[becher]

I'm not saying Rally2 will definitely die, but look at the road car market. How many around 4 meter long cars that aren't unreasonably fat crossovers with square meters of surplus sheet metal in the bodyshell are still on sale? How many will be left by 2030? And how many of those are from manufacturers that look in any way even only a tiny bit interested in rallying at the top?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Right now it seems that everyone is waiting except Toyota and maybe Project Rally One (I'm still very doubtful that this will ever work). But if even after promotor s*it will be clear that there will not be interest, I think Toyota could: 1. Go with Rally2 as all others or 2. Completely left the sport

Toyota is almost carrying rally and WRC with their commitment and investment in the sport.

But although this is commendable it can also be a negative due to their superiority. Many drivers are already switching to their Yaris Rally2 car and the same wil likely happen with their WRC27 (Celica). Who is going to risk €345,O00 on an unproven Project Rally One car when there's a Toyota to buy ?

[focus206]

I'm not saying Rally2 will definitely die, but look at the road car market. How many around 4 meter long cars that aren't unreasonably fat crossovers with square meters of surplus sheet metal in the bodyshell are still on sale? How many will be left by 2030? And how many of those are from manufacturers that look in any way even only a tiny bit interested in rallying at the top?

Are we sure that those smaller size cars won't return? I've heard people (not rally fans) complain about how the market is filled with those crossovers and SUVs, never heard anybody say the opposite.
In the top 10 of best selling cars in Italy in 2025 we have Panda, Clio, 208 and Yaris. 4/10 is quite a lot, considering those smaller cars are the minority now. If we look at what's on the road, then more than 4/10 are smaller cars. And the best selling model for Skoda is the Fabia, ahead of all their crossovers and SUVs.
Every country is different, but surely in some other places it must be similar?

[theracingelf]

I think many people are kind of missing the point of WRC27. Yes it's a replacement for the Rally1 cars but's ALSO a replacement for the Rally2 cars.

The Lancia will probably be the last ever homologated Rally2 car, they are slowly going to be phased out over the coming years in favour of the WRC27 cars.

[becher]

Are we sure that those smaller size cars won't return? I've heard people (not rally fans) complain about how the market is filled with those crossovers and SUVs, never heard anybody say the opposite.
In the top 10 of best selling cars in Italy in 2025 we have Panda, Clio, 208 and Yaris. 4/10 is quite a lot, considering those smaller cars are the minority now. If we look at what's on the road, then more than 4/10 are smaller cars. And the best selling model for Skoda is the Fabia, ahead of all their crossovers and SUVs.
Every country is different, but surely in some other places it must be similar?

That is true and I'd certainly hope we get normal cars back, but the current safety regulations make small cars less and less profitable.

You can charge a lot more for a crossover that in terms of development and production cost little to nothing more than a normal car.

And I also think it is dangerous to look at stuff like this from within the own automotive bubble and people influenced directly by this bubble. Normal non car people seemingly either want a "city Stupid Useless Vehicle" because a normal small car can't go on the motorway (obviously BS but I've heard stuff like this from technical "idiots") or wrongly precived additional safety (=> antisocial, anti pedestrian safety), or they just don't care and get what the market offers which even second hand is increasingly Stupid Useless Vehicles.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Sadly but human nature says that bigger is better and safer transport for your family. They once asked a very remote tribe which vehicle they'd choose for their family, a supermini or a big SUV... ofc they picked the SUV.

2027> is going to a very tricky transitional time for rally, both with the new cars slow to arrive and the 1000s of Rally2 cars out there, including the very recent and competitive Yaris & Skoda and new Lancia.

[focus206]

Normal non car people seemingly either want a "city Stupid Useless Vehicle" because a normal small car can't go on the motorway (obviously BS but I've heard stuff like this from technical "idiots") or wrongly precived additional safety (=> antisocial, anti pedestrian safety), or they just don't care and get what the market offers which even second hand is increasingly Stupid Useless Vehicles.

Curious, I didn't expect that. What I've heard around here from non-car enthusiasts has usually been "I want a smaller car because it's easier to park, cheaper and more fuel efficient" (which often translates into Panda or Clio). And I live in a town where parking is always available, when I go into cities I still see plenty of Citroen C1 size cars.

I guess it's hard to make a European level ratio of liking for smaller cars vs SUVs. But if the people who prefer smaller cars are still a good number, it would be weird if no manufacturer plans to make some smaller car to get those customers and fill the void.

[OldF]

Skoda will not have official team. And will not build new car for highest category (at least in first year, later maybe as it will not be allowed to build new Rally2 car according to current results).

Do you know anything about this?

By WRCWings Prospeed will use Skoda’s parts. WRC27 regulations are valid for ten years but what if Skoda isn’t there for ten years.

(https://www.wrcwings.tech/2026/02/02/what-a-tuner-built-wrc27-car-will-look-like-prospeeds-rally-one/
“The mechanical base of the Prospeed’s Rally One will entirely come from the Škoda Fabia RS Rally2.”

[Rallyper]

Do you know anything about this?

By WRCWings Prospeed will use Skoda’s parts. WRC27 regulations are valid for ten years but what if Skoda isn’t there for ten years.

(https://www.wrcwings.tech/2026/02/02/what-a-tuner-built-wrc27-car-will-look-like-prospeeds-rally-one/
“The mechanical base of the Prospeed’s Rally One will entirely come from the Škoda Fabia RS Rally2.”

Hello OldF.
Been a while, I think.
Welcome back.

[WRCStan]

I think many people are kind of missing the point of WRC27. Yes it's a replacement for the Rally1 cars but's ALSO a replacement for the Rally2 cars.

The Lancia will probably be the last ever homologated Rally2 car, they are slowly going to be phased out over the coming years in favour of the WRC27 cars.

The Ypsilon will probably be the last ever homologated production car. If there's a point people are missing about WRC27 it's that it's a replacement for production car manufacturers in special stage rallying. The touring rally sport is for historics, modern WRC is fully rally racing and it deserves rally racing cars. And even then, for all this talk of suitable, small, cars; it's all moot because you can't force these manufacturers to then

a) homologate a suitable, small, car and develop a rally car out of it
b) compete at world level

[WRCStan]

Do you know anything about this?

By WRCWings Prospeed will use Skoda’s parts. WRC27 regulations are valid for ten years but what if Skoda isn’t there for ten years.

(https://www.wrcwings.tech/2026/02/02/what-a-tuner-built-wrc27-car-will-look-like-prospeeds-rally-one/
“The mechanical base of the Prospeed’s Rally One will entirely come from the Škoda Fabia RS Rally2.”

I've been keeping a close eye on engine talk. Early texts/interviews/pressers always said Rally2 production engines with liberation for possibilities of EV and hydrogen in the future. While it makes sense to use what's available now and kind of entices the Rally2 manufs, access to homologated production engines will throttle the number of newcomer constructors. It shits on the entire philosophy of the ruleset as I put in my previous post.

I've not seen 'production engine' used officially in the past year or so, so I'm fingers crossed they would allow the motorsport industry to produce to Rally2 spec straight away, with whatever changes to the spec in the future. If not now, they need to allow them as quickly as possible.

[WRCStan]

Also, something is lost in translation maybe with Lluis/WRCWings. "All mechanical components must be sourced from current Rally2 manufacturers". I don't think is true. Hansen only refers to the engine I think. Not sure where else it was written/said. The suspension is all change anyway but I think the remaining parts are all available off the OEM's shelves anyway. It makes zero sense to have to have anything other than engine from a production manuf from Rally2 homologation.... getting back to the question what if Skoda aren't there.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

WRC27 & Rally2 performance will be very similar says Toyota's Tom Fowler:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/how-competitive-will-rally2-be-in-wrc-2027/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Skoda aren't going anywhere as they confirmed the other day ...


"We are looking into the new regulations,” boss Hrabánek said briefly to Motorsport aktuell.

“(Rallying is) part of the brand’s DNA. Our Fabia is fast and reliable on all surfaces and is the best-selling Rally2 model.”

“That’s why we’ll be entering the 2027 season with this model and will continue to develop it in detail,” Hrabánek said.

[WRCStan]

OK, but as no Rally2-club manufacturers are being enticed to build a WRC27 themselves, it's ridiculous to have the new ruleset written surrounding their existence into the future. If these regs are in the hope that the motorsport sector will do the promo work for the manufs which will lead them back to WRC, everyone is in for a miserable time. Let go, it's over, move on. She said no. Stop pandering to that disinterested club.

[becher]

Curious, I didn't expect that. What I've heard around here from non-car enthusiasts has usually been "I want a smaller car because it's easier to park, cheaper and more fuel efficient" (which often translates into Panda or Clio). And I live in a town where parking is always available, when I go into cities I still see plenty of Citroen C1 size cars.

I guess it's hard to make a European level ratio of liking for smaller cars vs SUVs. But if the people who prefer smaller cars are still a good number, it would be weird if no manufacturer plans to make some smaller car to get those customers and fill the void.
Well yes there are bound to be differences from one place to another.

I do have a bit of a feeling that strategies like Ford of Europe has (had?) are gonna come back and haunt them. But I can't remember the last time the automotive industry moved in the "right" direction so wouldn't bet my house on it.

[wyler]

Also, something is lost in translation maybe with Lluis/WRCWings. "All mechanical components must be sourced from current Rally2 manufacturers". I don't think is true. Hansen only refers to the engine I think. Not sure where else it was written/said. The suspension is all change anyway but I think the remaining parts are all available off the OEM's shelves anyway. It makes zero sense to have to have anything other than engine from a production manuf from Rally2 homologation.... getting back to the question what if Skoda aren't there.

i think mechanical is referring to powertrain (including driveshafts, brakes), as suspension regulation will be different from rally2. also you have to buy from the same producer, u can't have engine from skoda, trasmission from toyota and gearbox from m-sport, let's say.

on engines: you can source it from rally2 or have your own production-based, similar to rally2 spec. (same as skoda with his 2.0 "reduced" if i get it right)

[WRCStan]

you have to buy from the same producer, u can't have engine from skoda, trasmission from toyota and gearbox from m-sport, let's say.

That's not true: https://youtu.be/X-HMEQAfX04?t=740

It also makes no sense where those parts aren't even made by M-Sport, Ford, Citroen, Skoda whatever... why not buy from their suppliers? Why insist on buying from people who are disinterested in these regs? How is that helping cut costs, increase entries...? It doesn't.

If a bodywork only constructor buys a rolling chassis from another constructor, they must stick to what was used without changes. That's absolutely fine.


on engines: you can source it from rally2 or have your own production-based, similar to rally2 spec. (same as skoda with his 2.0 "reduced" if i get it right)

Is it confirmed? It makes no sense. It won't cut costs and increases barriers, regulation and scrutiny; for what?

[Kenneth]

i think mechanical is referring to powertrain (including driveshafts, brakes), as suspension regulation will be different from rally2. also you have to buy from the same producer, u can't have engine from skoda, trasmission from toyota and gearbox from m-sport, let's say.


That's something that was in older ruleset draft, but it isn't a case.

[OldF]

Hello OldF.
Been a while, I think.
Welcome back.

Thanks Rallyper,

The past 2,5 year of my life haven’t been the best time of my life. Few surgery, a broken / compressed vertebra which is still affecting my walking. For about two years I didn’t even follow any rallying.

I don’t know how much news I have missed during this time. For example I was surprised how much the price of a rally2 has increased. A Citroen C3 rally2 was little below 200 00 euros a while ago and now 231 000 euros without the option kit. The Lancia rally2’s price is 268 000 euros without the option kit. Is the price increase because of changes in regulations or increased costs due to economic inflation?

Citroen
https://boutique.citroenracing.com/modules/akki_documentation_psa/upload/documents/3f4e66fff64100ab85c204a93b426c0a.pdf

Lancia
https://lancia-corsehf.com/modules/akki_documentation_psa/upload/documents/eea06d8ed0def8637b8b2182303eb8e7.pdf

[RS]

Skoda will not have official team. And will not build new car for highest category (at least in first year, later maybe as it will not be allowed to build new Rally2 car according to current results).

Might they extend more support to Toksport so that they could run two permanent drivers for the whole 2027 season? If Rally2 cars should have parity with WRC27 it would be a shame if they didn’t have a go.

[TypeR]

Thanks Rallyper,

The past 2,5 year of my life haven’t been the best time of my life. Few surgery, a broken / compressed vertebra which is still affecting my walking. For about two years I didn’t even follow any rallying.

I don’t know how much news I have missed during this time. For example I was surprised how much the price of a rally2 has increased. A Citroen C3 rally2 was little below 200 00 euros a while ago and now 231 000 euros without the option kit. The Lancia rally2’s price is 268 000 euros without the option kit. Is the price increase because of changes in regulations or increased costs due to economic inflation?

Citroen
https://boutique.citroenracing.com/modules/akki_documentation_psa/upload/documents/3f4e66fff64100ab85c204a93b426c0a.pdf

Lancia
https://lancia-corsehf.com/modules/akki_documentation_psa/upload/documents/eea06d8ed0def8637b8b2182303eb8e7.pdf

Toyota is ca 350k

[OldF]

The WRCWings article is based on “Décryptage du WRC27 avec Lionel Hansen” youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-HMEQAfX04 (15.1.2026)

2.2.2026
https://www.wrcwings.tech/2026/02/02/what-a-tuner-built-wrc27-car-will-look-like-prospeeds-rally-one/

All mechanical components must be sourced from current Rally2 manufacturers, and teams are allowed to cherry-pick components from different manufacturers during the development stage, according to Mr. Hansen — something that contradicts earlier FIA statements. The mechanical base of the Prospeed’s Rally One will entirely come from the Škoda Fabia RS Rally2.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
allowed to cherry-pick components from different manufacturers.
This is different from earlier statements:

20.8.2026
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/what-we-know-about-wrc-2027-so-far/
“A tuner will have to align with a single manufacturer running a currently homologated car”
“It’s not possible to cherry-pick components from various manufacturers”

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is included in the mechanical base?


Also, something is lost in translation maybe with Lluis/WRCWings. "All mechanical components must be sourced from current Rally2 manufacturers". I don't think is true. Hansen only refers to the engine I think


i think mechanical is referring to powertrain (including driveshafts, brakes), as suspension regulation will be different from rally2.

20.2.2026
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/first-image-of-project-rally-one-car-revealed/
While precise technical details of the car are still to be confirmed, a Škoda Fabia RS Rally2 engine is understood to have been deployed in the all-new chassis.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think we have to wait until Christmas eve before everything is clear. :)

[WRCStan]

allowed to cherry-pick components from different manufacturers.
This is different from earlier statements:

20.8.2026
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/what-we-know-about-wrc-2027-so-far/
“A tuner will have to align with a single manufacturer running a currently homologated car”
“It’s not possible to cherry-pick components from various manufacturers”


That Dirtfish definition of Tuner is wrong to me, but as the FIA publications from November/December didn't use the word, I think that's best practice. Just confuses.

[Kenneth]

Well that definition of tuner was correct, the keyword is was, because now there are no tuners and no manufacturers, just constructors.

[WRCStan]

Is it cost efficient to go the bodywork route? Manufacturing in house say rather than ordering replacement panels from Toyota. Surely it's the only reason?

Still can't see Toyota permitting this but can see Prospeed doing it because of the shared production quota fill. And the promoter wanting teams with unique identity lol. Maybe a Printsport team will have their own bodywork on a Toyota car.

[wyler]

That's something that was in older ruleset draft, but it isn't a case.

it's confused, because there's still no definitive regulations, but as a matter of fact, the same prospeed sourced all the mechanical parts from skoda, not cherry picking. we will see the last revision of. regs in 2027...

[WRCStan]

Well that definition of tuner was correct

It wasn't correct. Tuners was first mentioned to say that the non-manufacturer motorsport industry could build a car from scratch. Like Prospeed.

[Kenneth]

Yes, that was the first pitch, not sure if it was even official. It was around August (not sure exactly) when FIA introduced Tuners as someone who could only build own bodywork on a car fully sourced by a Manufacturer, before scratching both terms and introducing Constructers in December, which makes no distinction between manus and tuners.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Might they extend more support to Toksport so that they could run two permanent drivers for the whole 2027 season? If Rally2 cars should have parity with WRC27 it would be a shame if they didn’t have a go.

If Skoda can be convinced that the Rally2 Cars will be truly competitive with the WRC27s they should come back as a factory team with the chance of wins.

[deephouse]

What about WRC2 concept? Right now there is a rule you can score points on 7 events and 6 best count. It seems that this system atract many crews as it was way cheaper than whole season. What will happen next year when there will be WRC27 and Rally2 cars in same category. Toyota will surely compete on all events, probably M-Sport and Hyundai too, but what about Lancia, Skoda, all other private regular teams. Will they even bother if they will not have a chance. For all those crews season will be doubled in costs.

[WRCStan]

What about WRC1? Work that out first.

I love this thread and how we can repeat ourselves every 5 pages and everyone's OK with it.

[Kenneth]

I don't see a reason why anything should be changed about WRC2.

[WRCStan]

Not much point if the same team and crew wins WRC1 and WRC2 though.

[PLuto]

If Skoda can be convinced that the Rally2 Cars will be truly competitive with the WRC27s they should come back as a factory team with the chance of wins.

Skoda is not interested in building factory team. It is matter of stakeholders, they are not interested in it. They have allowed project as customer racing...

[Kenneth]

Not much point if the same team and crew wins WRC1 and WRC2 though.

The entries would have to be limited somehow ofc. Maybe crew would have to register into either WRC2 or WRC2? Idk, there would be some solution for sure, but I think it wouldn't be a good choice to kill WRC2 as it could be an actual stepping stone now when same cars will be used in WRC1.

[WRCStan]

I hope the stepping-stone-to-an-established-position doesn't get traction with the Rally2-as-top-class crowd.

[Steve Boyd]

The entries would have to be limited somehow ofc. Maybe crew would have to register into either WRC2 or WRC2? Idk, there would be some solution for sure, but I think it wouldn't be a good choice to kill WRC2 as it could be an actual stepping stone now when same cars will be used in WRC1.I think you're right. As I see it there will be WRC1 for WRC27 & Rally2 cars with a high registration fee and full TV coverage, having to do all events (like now but with different cars) and WRC2 for Rally2 cars with a lower registration fee, a choice of fewer events and little or no TV coverage.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Skoda is not interested in building factory team. It is matter of stakeholders, they are not interested in it. They have allowed project as customer racing...

A shame given the 2027 change and the opportunity to get better publicity for the Skoda brand, rather than just as a good rally car builder.

[WRCStan]

I think you're right. As I see it there will be WRC1 for WRC27 & Rally2 cars with a high registration fee and full TV coverage, having to do all events (like now but with different cars) and WRC2 for Rally2 cars with a lower registration fee, a choice of fewer events and little or no TV coverage.

Excluding WRC27 is not encouraging uptake.

[WRCStan]

A shame given the 2027 change and the opportunity to get better publicity for the Skoda brand, rather than just as a good rally car builder.

"Being human means recognising that we’re all the same because we’re all so different. It means to smile at our loved ones and, sometimes at total strangers. It means meeting people’s needs before they even become a need. It’s living for the big moments. And celebrating the small ones.

"To keep it simple isn’t all that simple. So how do we do it? We start with removing what’s not important. Till all that’s left is all that really matters. We create a place for everything and put everything in its place. Because when you have less to worry about, you have more to live for. It’s that simple.

"We love a good surprise, just like you. Being surprising means getting more than what you were expecting. Or when something beautiful does something useful. Or when you experience more without spending more. Surprises aren’t just for plot twists in a thriller. They’re crucial for that other movie, the one we star in daily. Life."

Skoda Brand, Our Values - https://www.skoda-auto.com/world/brand

[Steve Boyd]

Excluding WRC27 is not encouraging uptake.I'm not sure that there will be enough of them next year so maybe it will be better to keep them at the top level for a year or two. When they become available second hand then certainly WRC2 should be opened up to allow both Rally2 and WRC27 cars.

[WRCStan]

I'm not sure that there will be enough of them next year so maybe it will be better to keep them at the top level for a year or two. When they become available second hand then certainly WRC2 should be opened up to allow both Rally2 and WRC27 cars.

There's only one level with these two, and there's not really such a thing as WRC1, only what is the current manufacturers championship. WRC1 WDC/WCC are open to everybody who starts in all classes and should remain so.

The whole point of this was to get the Rally2s into the top level, so keeping a Rally2 based WRC2 makes a mockery of it all. It's a proposed top class WRC1 and WRC2 muddier than WRC2/3 in 2020 which nobody cared for having split. But even when your new WRC2 opens to WRC27 cars, what's it then for other than only 7 events counting when the calendar is 14? Even PWRC and SWRC had lower classes.

I think maybe there's a World title for Constructors and a Cup for Rally2 Teams, because the driver pool contenders will still be split across the two regs (open WDC/WCC). Can't see them doing a World Title for Teams if it's only Rally2 but maybe they'll want a mixed Teams' title for the depth of field for a year or three.

*WDC
*WCC

Likely
*World Rally Championship for Constructors / World Rally Championship for Teams (If allowing for non-constructor WRC27 teams)
**WRC Cup for Teams (Rally2 )
But possibly:
*World Rally Championship for Teams (WRC27, Rally2 and otherwise)

Retain:
WRC3
JWRC
Masters Cup (open)
Challenger Cup (open)

If additional spice needed:
European Cup
Gravel Cup
Tarmac Cup

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Interesting comment re spaceframe cars from the Hyundai camp...

Adrien Fourmaux said the current spaceframe Rally1 cars didn’t lend themselves to keeping the water – and subsequent mist – out.

“The issue is now the cars are like full carbon (panels)", the Frenchman told DirtFish.

“It’s not like a proper chassis that you put a roll cage in. So, there is always more space to have something getting inside..."

[JRodrigues]

There it goes again:

https://x.com/Carli_Cup/status/2033941470290338084?s=20

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent.fopo5-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/654218236_1350221620485197_6853590557307082805_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=13d280&_nc_ohc=fLwttHnfVLwQ7kNvwFjzbMh&_nc_oc=Adl5qKVO1iOKfUk2Tm4FtDVPPDea-SXTlFjHyXJ6H5_QjdlHy8KtjZyEHmIrnUAIqcEbHpvcO4t2ppO 0REPaR87n&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo5-2.fna&_nc_gid=um1XJTiu-i5TECvoKU3NAQ&_nc_ss=8&oh=00_AfyYXqBRlMVKwOhrskaQMZXFbS1eaI3TLbsMqtPG8Hll oA&oe=69BF7FF7
https://scontent.fopo5-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/653703031_1350221613818531_6733862755704898440_n.j pg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=13d280&_nc_ohc=p4DDsg8QU2AQ7kNvwENR_OJ&_nc_oc=AdnUoD28xzor8FxTBhb52PHtQaHCAIght192Omtn3JO M8yxDNj4Qea0NF6pTuKJOtAlPXaqNoIr8AUMY1qfMG4xm&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo5-2.fna&_nc_gid=Us_XjCvaAK51mluO2hyfhA&_nc_ss=8&oh=00_Afw7wD3R22JGmvohCRFkIyIpqDlHkD_W3w0DTfA67igQ _w&oe=69BF54E9
https://scontent.fopo5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/652909703_1350221610485198_4762535623569988145_n.j pg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=13d280&_nc_ohc=9vBrhtinKKsQ7kNvwHKVpOV&_nc_oc=AdnYq21QrFgVwRAzDV6SHSi82IwtSEgfNhkK46C0DLu Da15zLUP1OJi4lNhsXAYmZRpXXcHwG14gWafeQNVubqEl&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo5-1.fna&_nc_gid=6xwSnqF-CNbMsW5Juns5FA&_nc_ss=8&oh=00_Afwg6l3pQ19AbRV7QqTLEM7v6KvIydeQKJPuuB2wygGm Kw&oe=69BF7079

https://www.facebook.com/boticas

[spyros]

This isnt yaris, what model is?

[Franky]

That wing looks like some plywood spoilers I saw on some Ladas about 20 years ago

[skarderud]

This isnt yaris, what model is?Some say Celica, i would say Celicaish.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[RS]

This isnt yaris, what model is?

The current Yaris isn’t a Yaris either.

[EstWRC]

Toyota 2027 test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhczbKOEcs4

the sound is awful IMO

[drive]

Rumour has it that Toyota will run (have allready) two 'bodies' on a new spaceframe base for 27regs...

[Eli]

Toyota 2027 test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhczbKOEcs4

the sound is awful IMO

That is what happens when you take away that 1.6 turbo Global Racing Engine to cut down costs...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lemos video of the Toyota prototype:

https://youtu.be/HKE1ggnb1bw?si=AZpyR8FBv_-tEKkE

[Steve Boyd]

Toyota 2027 test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhczbKOEcs4

the sound is awful IMO

All turbo cars sound awful - bring back naturally aspirated engines!

[flat_right]

All turbo cars sound awful - bring back naturally aspirated engines!

What we have currently with Rally1 is okay. It’s loud and high-revving, but this Toyota engine is a total sound disaster. For me it sounds like a broken engine.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Stop crying guys. It's far from the finished car and who knows what is fitted and what they're testing.

[spyros]

Lemos video of the Toyota prototype:

https://youtu.be/HKE1ggnb1bw?si=AZpyR8FBv_-tEKkE

Is it me or its so slow, even slower than curent wrc2?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Is it me or its so slow, even slower than curent wrc2?

Its certainly struggling on the hairpins.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Pajari testing it ...

https://youtu.be/nMOsJRLVNTE?si=-DfQMZ93m_Uo_0pe

[WRCStan]

Is it me or its so slow, even slower than curent wrc2?

Yes it does but like Eddie said before you, they're not competing. It's not a useful comparison to worry on.

[JRodrigues]

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid027MLTJHr2FgWyr5Khuy BVnWkzni4Jn6SVAoT56Gm4WPJ1Jwpv7MktZZyaXLqPeXN2l&id=100066376615907

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier doesnt seem too keen to continue, although he hasn't tested the new car yet...

“The cars are taking a step backwards. The most important thing is to have a strong field and close battles with as many drivers as possible in the top category. Technically, the cars are less inspiring than the current ones. Few drivers will have anything positive to say about them,” Ogier said.

https://rallyjournal.com/end-in-sight-sebastien-ogier-opens-up-about-retirement/

[deephouse]

Like he ever wanted to have a strong field. His most titles came when he haven't got so much direct competition. Kalle and Tanak break that, then he starts compete only "half" programmes. Then Neuville step up, Evans became very strong, Solberg this year and is a matter of time when Pajari and Fourmaux will be strong candidates for titles too. I don't know when WRC had such a strong field the last time. Yes, of xourse Kalle and Tanak left, but still have a feeling they will came back.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Thierry Neuville highly sceptical about the future of the WRC...

“As a driver, you always want more. We want cars that make both drivers and fans dream. On that front, I’m not convinced the future technical regulations are compelling."

“I don’t think we will see new manufacturers – perhaps a few private teams entering with a car developed in their own garage. Is this the future of the WRC? I’m not sure."

https://rallyjournal.com/thierry-neuville-highly-sceptical-about-the-future-of-the-wrc/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tom Folwer on the WRC27 Test...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/solberg-and-pajari-join-team-mates-in-testing-toyotas-2027-car/#google_vignette

More Pajari in the car:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DWOXUdrCDru/?igsh=dTR4d3Jodjk4bDdo

[WRCStan]

Like he ever wanted to have a strong field. His most titles came when he haven't got so much direct competition. Kalle and Tanak break that, then he starts compete only "half" programmes. Then Neuville step up, Evans became very strong, Solberg this year and is a matter of time when Pajari and Fourmaux will be strong candidates for titles too. I don't know when WRC had such a strong field the last time. Yes, of xourse Kalle and Tanak left, but still have a feeling they will came back.

Me thinks there's better chance to see Tanak building a RedGrey WRC27 then even driving a RedGrey WRC27 over driving for anybody else.

Maybe odd events but can't see Rovanpera doing full seasons again.

Possibility that nobody does full seasons.

[denkimi]

Like he ever wanted to have a strong field. His most titles came when he haven't got so much direct competition. Kalle and Tanak break that, then he starts compete only "half" programmes. Then Neuville step up, Evans became very strong, Solberg this year and is a matter of time when Pajari and Fourmaux will be strong candidates for titles too. I don't know when WRC had such a strong field the last time. Yes, of xourse Kalle and Tanak left, but still have a feeling they will came back.
He didn't have much competition because he is the GOAT. Tanak and Kalle were lucky he went to drive the shitroen, and retired for some time.

[flat_right]

He didn't have much competition because he is the GOAT. Tanak and Kalle were lucky he went to drive the shitroen, and retired for some time.

Ogier is lucky that Tänak made the worst decision of all time in WRC when he left Toyota and joined Hyundai. This gave him opportunity at first place to join Toyota and collect more titles.

[deephouse]

Ogier competition when he won every title:
-2008 (JWRC)
-1. Ogier - 42pt
-2. Burkart - 34pt
-3. Prokop - 32pt
Also there was Abbring on 13th place.

-2013:
-1. Ogier - 290pt
-2. Neuville - 176pt
-3. Latvala - 162pt

Loeb was there only for 4 events, there was Evans on 12th place.

-2014:
-1. Ogier - 267pt
-2. Latvala - 218pt
-3. Mikkelsen - 150pt

Neuville 6th, Meeke 7th, Evans 8th, Tanak 15th

-2015:
-1. Ogier - 263pt
-2. Latvala - 183pt
-3. Mikkelsen - 171pt

Meeke - 5th, Neuville 6th, Evans 7th, Tanak 10th, Loeb only one event

-2016:
-1. Ogier - 268pt
-2. Neuville - 160pt
-3. Mikkelsen - 154pt

Latvala ended on 6th place, Tanak 8th, Meeke 9th, Evans on 21th

-2017:
-1. Ogier - 232pt
-2. Neuville - 208pt
-3. Tanak - 191pt

Latvala 4th, Evans 5th, Meeke 7th, Mikkelsen didn't drive whole season - ended on 12th place

-2018:
-1. Ogier - 219pt
-2. Neuville - 201pt
-3. Tanak - 181pt

Latvala 4th, Mikkelsen 6th, Evans 7th, Loeb drove three events, Meeke 14th, Rovanpera 22th

-2020:
-1. Ogier - 122pt
-2. Evans - 114pt
-3. Tanak - 105pt

Neuville 4th, Rovanpera 5th, Loeb drove only 2 events, Solberg 17th

-2021:
-1. Ogier - 230pt
-2. Evans - 207pt
-3. Neuville - 176pt

Rovanpera 4th, Tanak 5th, Solberg 13th

-2025:
-1. Ogier - 293pt
-2. Evans - 289pt
-3. Rovanpera - 256pt

Tanak 4th, Neuville 5th, Solberg 9th.

Of course there was VW factor, absolute dominant force in his prime years, but when they left he struggle at Ford and still won, then in Citroen he wasn't good and Tanak was the first non-french driver who break french dominance in WRC over those years. He was then in Toyota and we look closely that all those drivers did step up their game and it became very difficult for Ogier to clearly won titles, so I'm sure he starts doing it part time because of that and not solely because his family. If he wanted that, he would retire already. Of course he is GOAT, but still... If there were 4-5 title contenders in field or those who already won it (Latvala, Loeb, Mikkelsen, Meeke, and all those who are here today), he would not have that easy job. Probably he would win it most, but not all that he did. In last two years the opportunity came, because everyone seems step down in adaption for hybridless cars and his part time races (which in my opinion hedid well). There was also factor he grab the opportunity to not be the first on road. So he is a GOAT but is playing very dirty and I think that he will want to contest in this new cars, at least for a year or two. And I think he is hungry for 10th title which nobody probably will ever beat that record.

[Kenneth]

I wouldn't say he wasn't good in Citroën in 2019, the car was simply fragile shit, yet he was able to take multiple wins.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

You're way off topic lads.

Back to the WRC27... Toyota has back-to-back tested vs the Yaris Rally2:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyota-back-to-backed-2027-car-with-rally2/

[focus206]

I wouldn't say he wasn't good in Citroën in 2019, the car was simply fragile shit, yet he was able to take multiple wins.

Fragile? Ogier had 0 DNFs in 2019 due to technical trouble. Only technical problems were 2 times broken powersteering, in a whole season (which of course was enough to make Ogier and his wife rage). C3 WRC wasn't slow nor unreliable, it was difficult to drive and setup, everything else is revisionism to excuse Ogier.

Yes, sorry for the OT.

[WRCStan]

Like he ever wanted to have a strong field. His most titles came when he haven't got so much direct competition. Kalle and Tanak break that, then he starts compete only "half" programmes. Then Neuville step up, Evans became very strong, Solberg this year and is a matter of time when Pajari and Fourmaux will be strong candidates for titles too. I don't know when WRC had such a strong field the last time. Yes, of xourse Kalle and Tanak left, but still have a feeling they will came back.

Neuville has stepped up since Ogier went part time? He has only won 7 events since end 2021. 2017-covid he was class.

[deephouse]

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/subaru-teases-new-rally-car-for-japanese-championship/10808070/

Not currently WRC related but it's something. Subaru making new car for Japan rallying.



https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyota-back-to-backed-2027-car-with-rally2/

Interesting comments from Fowler.

Fowler continued: “I’m pretty sure that everybody’s expecting that we’re the ones doing the new car. And a new [car] is always faster, right? Therefore, everything’s done and dusted and easy… but when I look at our job list of what we have to achieve before Monte Carlo with the 2027 car, it would be much easier just to rock up there with a Rally2 car that we already did.”
Toyota won’t be doing that. Toyota’s vision is longer-term and goes beyond what’s being talked of as a transition year before more constructors and manufacturers arriving with 2027-specification cars in 2028.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Speaking of Neuville... he doesnt know his future but it seems he does want to continue after this year:

“The desire would be to continue. The championship probably does not want well-known drivers to jump ship. In my opinion, they need them because they bring a certain level of recognition. Rebuilding a championship with ‘unknown’ drivers would be even more difficult.”

More:
https://rallyjournal.com/will-thierry-neuville-continue-his-career-no-idea-at-all/

[Andre Oliveira]

Rumours about RMC build a WRC27 FIAT based.

[Steve Boyd]

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/subaru-teases-new-rally-car-for-japanese-championship/10808070/

Not currently WRC related but it's something. Subaru making new car for Japan rallying.Looks quite like the Toyota WRC27 test car, particularly the roof line.

[Eli]

Rumours about RMC build a WRC27 FIAT based.

Pardon my ignorance but who’s RMC?

[Kenneth]

Looks quite like the Toyota WRC27 test car, particularly the roof line.

I don't think it's a real render

[Walach]

It was shown during the reveal by Subaru, but still it is just a render.
https://www.rallyplus.net/121222

[Kenneth]

Oh okay, thanks for correcting me

[flat_right]

Pardon my ignorance but who’s RMC?

Should be RMC Motosport. It's a Spanish motorsport engineering firm.

[WRCStan]

Rumours about RMC build a WRC27 FIAT based.

What's the FIAT base? They don't have a homologated Rally2 engine - though I understood that wasn't necessary. And it's now the question why would FIAT approach RMC, not the other way around.

[Andre Oliveira]

You don't understand the WRC27 rules yet. Who says the engine need be FIAT?

Yes, RMC of Roberto Mendez.
Btw, they annouced that will not produce more models of N5 (different shapes).

[WRCStan]

Apologies for my curiosity and/or difficult question.

[pedro16]

Much like Prospeed reached Skoda to get parts for their WRC27, RMC can knock on Stellantis' door to get parts for a FIAT (or whatever) based car.

It's a bit like F1.

[WRCStan]

Thanks Pedro.