WRC mainclass from 2027

[Steve Boyd]

does the new rules have something like "if you build a wrc27 car you gotta build at least 10"?
i remember reading something but I couldnt find the article again. probably from dirt fish?
so if toyota is building the new car, they gotta build 10 so others can buy, right? (if that rule exsit, no idea if im imagining things now)WRC 2025 Sporting Regulations art. 17.4.1 says a manufacturer cannot use more than 9 chassis in a season, so why should they be required to build at least 10?

[WRCStan]

WRC 2025 Sporting Regulations art. 17.4.1 says a manufacturer cannot use more than 9 chassis in a season, so why should they be required to build at least 10?

Creating the supply.


The homologation conditions for WRC27-type cars mandate the production of at least ten units within twenty-four months of the homologation date. Constructors must also be capable of supplying at least ten race-ready WRC27-type cars per calendar year to customers.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

"Constructor" is the same title given to F1 teams. But rally cars are cars, not single-seater racing machines.

They need to represent a road car to have any relevance to the public and fans.The idea of tuners fitting panels to look like a road car without that cars Manufacturer being the constructor makes no sense. Surely the Manufacturer has to come first and then have the tuner build and run the car for them.

[wyler]

WRC 2025 Sporting Regulations art. 17.4.1 says a manufacturer cannot use more than 9 chassis in a season, so why should they be required to build at least 10?

it's 10 in 2 years.

[wyler]

Going to Rally Journal (https://rallyjournal.com/major-revelation-from-toyota-boss-core-principles-of-2027-regulations-already-agreed/) in August, Tom Fowler said:

“What I understand is there’s a specific chapter that tells you how to build an engine for the championship. If you want to commit, you follow that chapter – all the information is clearly written down,” Fowler explained. “There’s also an appendix that says if a manufacturer or tuner has a different requirement – for a production engine, electrification, or similar – they can present it to the FIA.

But then Cyril said Hyundai needed a production engine they don't have.


:confused:

i think this is about technology. they have rules for ice, they are open to discuss other types. probably hiunday hasn't a suitable ice.

[Kenneth]

Did Cyril forgot that they have Rally2 car, which indeed have an engine?

[deephouse]

Cyril is a joke, remember that. As long as he will be in the team, the team will be one leg and ahalf out of the sport.

[denkimi]

"Constructor" is the same title given to F1 teams. But rally cars are cars, not single-seater racing machines.

They need to represent a road car to have any relevance to the public and fans.The idea of tuners fitting panels to look like a road car without that cars Manufacturer being the constructor makes no sense. Surely the Manufacturer has to come first and then have the tuner build and run the car for them.
Why do they need to represent a road car? Why do they need to be relevant to the public?
If prodrive or M-sport wants to build a car under their own name, why should they not be allowed?

[focus206]

The idea of tuners fitting panels to look like a road car without that cars Manufacturer being the constructor makes no sense.

Or worse: tuner fitting panels on a frame, to make a "rally car" that doesn't even aesthetically resemble a road car. I hope that can't happen. I don't think it would go down well with many fans, if you take away even the bare minimum resemblance with a road car.

[deephouse]

Why do they need to represent a road car? Why do they need to be relevant to the public?
If prodrive or M-sport wants to build a car under their own name, why should they not be allowed?

Because the cars needs to be in accordance with regulations and laws for road use, since they also drive on public roads. Especially Europe have so strict rules that crews often gets some ban or high penalties on road sections... But I think that is because the cars needs to be homologated and it's easier and way cheaper - each part needs to be homologated, and some of those are very crucial for road safety, that means manufacturer use some easier ways to get things through laws.

Also as a fan, I do like the idea, that the rally car should be road revelant. I like the idea, that the car should look like it's pretty much normal, just like that on the road, but underneath it does hide it's real beast and of course tackle ever possible scenario, terrain, weather & condition. That's a recipe for sunday racing and monday selling. It worked before and could work again. Those big expensive spoilers belong on track. Having excuse it's all because just for safety reasons, it's stupid, because the latest deadly crash happen directly in too expensive space-frame non-sense (and of course even a expert fan doesn't even notice difference).

I believe they want to get something from past that's worked, combined with something from present and be open for future. I just hope that whoever will (again big IF), build this new car will not look like some sort of space-ship or kid drawing his first car.

[Kenneth]

Because the cars needs to be in accordance with regulations and laws for road use, since they also drive on public roads. Especially Europe have so strict rules that crews often gets some ban or high penalties on road sections... But I think that is because the cars needs to be homologated and it's easier and way cheaper - each part needs to be homologated, and some of those are very crucial for road safety, that means manufacturer use some easier ways to get things through laws.

That doesn't really make sense. It's FIA who homologates rally cars and part of the homologation is the cars will be able to drive on public roads. It doesn't matter if it's space frame car or Rally5.


Also as a fan, I do like the idea, that the rally car should be road revelant.

I will again argue with Dakar. The space frame cars looks nothing like the road cars they share name with. And fans doesn't care, they just see a Hilux winning, they don't car it has nothing to do with a Hilux they have at home. There are even prototypes that don't even resemble any road car like Audi or Dacia. There are some branded private project too, like Martin Prokop's old Raptor RS or this year there is VW Amarok. This should be available to do with WRC27 too (if FIA didn't change it yet), and make sense if the team/driver have a partnership with a local branch or a dealer.

And then, there are privateer's cars like Century, MD Optimus, Red Lined, or these Chinese projects, that are acting as their own brands. Sure, some people can argue that it would be better if they were branded by some automaker, by why would they do that, when they have no connection to them? I don't care if they look like cars I can see on road or not, better competition is much more important.

Also doing this can show that the privateer company is good and at a chance from some manufacturer, just as it happened in Dakar with Prodrive and Dacia.


Having excuse it's all because just for safety reasons, it's stupid, because the latest deadly crash happen directly in too expensive space-frame non-sense

This just doesn't work as argument, at all. If you talk abou Breen, that was purely unlucky, it would end the same in every car. The safety cell that is in the use is designed mainly to improve in front impact and side impact.

Also unfortunately, Breen's crash wasn't the "latest deadly crash". There are multiple deadly crashes every year. And these also happens in Rally2s and Rally4s, not just in some older group a cars.

[focus206]

I will again argue with Dakar. The space frame cars looks nothing like the road cars they share name with. And fans doesn't care, they just see a Hilux winning, they don't car it has nothing to do with a Hilux they have at home. There are even prototypes that don't even resemble any road car like Audi or Dacia. There are some branded private project too, like Martin Prokop's old Raptor RS or this year there is VW Amarok. This should be available to do with WRC27 too (if FIA didn't change it yet), and make sense if the team/driver have a partnership with a local branch or a dealer.

And then, there are privateer's cars like Century, MD Optimus, Red Lined, or these Chinese projects, that are acting as their own brands. Sure, some people can argue that it would be better if they were branded by some automaker, by why would they do that, when they have no connection to them? I don't care if they look like cars I can see on road or not, better competition is much more important.

Also doing this can show that the privateer company is good and at a chance from some manufacturer, just as it happened in Dakar with Prodrive and Dacia.


Dakar has always been like that, since the first edition in 1979. Buggies, protos, cars that are named the same as the road version but only barely resembled them (Citroen ZX Grand Raid, Mitsubishi Pajero T3), they're part of Dakar. And by the way, I did read comments praising the Hilux as a "real" car compared to the Dacia or Audi buggies. We do know the Dakar Hilux has probably more in common with the Dacia Sandrider than with the road going Hilux, but many more casual fans don't. Just like the Pajero is remembered as this legendary Dakar competitor, the Schlesser buggy not that much.

You're saying WRC, that never had these, should start adopting them. I don't agree, to me it's a step too far outside WRC's nature. And in my opinion many fans won't like seeing Prodrive vs BRR vs X-Raid vs Abt protos in WRC...

[WRCStan]

That doesn't really make sense. It's FIA who homologates rally cars and part of the homologation is the cars will be able to drive on public roads. It doesn't matter if it's space frame car or Rally5.

FIA homologation doesn't make a car road-legal, it only makes it FIA-legal.

[WRCStan]

probably hiunday hasn't a suitable ice.

Then Hyundai can build a suitable ICE by following the specific chapter that tells you how to build an engine for the championship and all the information is clearly written down. No production engine required, according to Tom Fowler.

Tom has a WRC2027 project in his hands and TGR have committed to the series, and Toyota don't flip-flop on strategies globally, they're solid. And then there is Cyril, HMSG and Hyundai. I know who I choose to believe.

[wyler]

Then Hyundai can build a suitable ICE by following the specific chapter that tells you how to build an engine for the championship and all the information is clearly written down. No production engine required, according to Tom Fowler.

Tom has a WRC2027 project in his hands and TGR have committed to the series, and Toyota don't flip-flop on strategies globally, they're solid. And then there is Cyril, HMSG and Hyundai. I know who I choose to believe.

i think you misread what Fowler said. The fact that there are chapter of rules regarding the engine, dosn't mean you can build it out of nowhere. ice engine for 27 is based on rally2 engine, allowing a bit of flexibility for exploring production-based alternatives. (like skoda's rally2 engine is 1.6 derived from 2.0 production model)

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G75GxcCXgAAM7j3?format=jpg&name=medium

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Toyota has the GR Yaris road car. They made this into the GR Yaris Rally2. A great car for everyone that is good for years ahead.

Now they are having to make a spaceframe version of a Toyota due to the WRC2027 Regs.

This sums up the absurdity of the future idea of WRC.

[Kenneth]

They don't have to make one. They want to make it.

Idk why people still didn't get that these rules are made to replace Rally2 in long term while co-existing with them in a short term. It's there to allow manufacturers without eligiable base car (which almost all of them have Rally2 car now) and to allow private projects to be homologated, so there will be no more Corsa R5 or Mitsubishi R5 cases.

Still would be better to also allow to build the car on road-car chassis, but there are still Rally2s and there isn't any info of a plans to scrap them.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

They don't have to make one. They want to make it.
.

Ok but only because they can afford it and are the leading rally team, bar none. And their Rally2 is still the top car in the Class and latest (not counting Lancia).

If they said no, we'll continue with our Rally2 car, where would the new Regs be ?

[WRCStan]

i think you misread what Fowler said. The fact that there are chapter of rules regarding the engine, dosn't mean you can build it out of nowhere. ice engine for 27 is based on rally2 engine, allowing a bit of flexibility for exploring production-based alternatives. (like skoda's rally2 engine is 1.6 derived from 2.0 production model)

It's plain English to me, I don't think I misread it. It might no longer be true or changed, I don't know.

“there’s a specific chapter that tells you how to build an engine for the championship”

But there's no reason why there's a guide on 'how to build a production engine for the championship' if the rules are for using a production engine common to Rally2 that belong in Group A surely? All you need in the WRC2027 regs is a simple statement - "use an engine homologated in Group A".

Maybe it's the specs of 'the Rally2 engine as basis' as we quite often read, so might be able to be built in the small volumes. That's the key point, not the specs.

[WRCStan]

If they said no, we'll continue with our Rally2 car, where would the new Regs be ?

Still going ahead. The new regs are to steer the entire sport away from production car manufacturers altogether.

Watch this question and answer. https://youtu.be/I6-oOz8aDxE?t=4779

"The reason you can't carry on with [Rally2] is because the manufacturers aren't making those cars anymore. The homologations will run out and nobody's making those cars. So you must go to a spaceframe - you'll be surprised at how cheap those will be if we do them in big production volumes and they won't cost a lot of money" - David Richards.

[wyler]

It's plain English to me, I don't think I misread it. It might no longer be true or changed, I don't know.

“there’s a specific chapter that tells you how to build an engine for the championship”

But there's no reason why there's a guide on 'how to build a production engine for the championship' if the rules are for using a production engine common to Rally2 that belong in Group A surely? All you need in the WRC2027 regs is a simple statement - "use an engine homologated in Group A".

Maybe it's the specs of 'the Rally2 engine as basis' as we quite often read, so might be able to be built in the small volumes. That's the key point, not the specs.

again... "how to build an engine for the championship" doesn't mean you can build it from scratch or that is entirely new. it's not. there are rules on how to build it, and those rules -even for 27- point to existing specs and production related piece. that's it. of course they have to write it in the paper. no way a tech regulation can write "look at the previous one". they have to state all the things.

to further clarify, this is from dirtfish:
Engine
The engine will run at Rally2 specification, generating 300bhp. There is some discussion of another engine alternative, with Mestelan saying: “For the Rally2 engine, it’s already decided, this is already validated by the World [Motor Sport] Council, this is one option. There is also discussion to introduce a production-based engine based on production cars. It has to be refined with our manufacturers to know if we will validate this concept or not in addition to the current one. The aim here is to achieve power at a lower cost. [...]


source: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/what-we-know-about-wrc-2027-so-far/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Still going ahead. The new regs are to steer the entire sport away from production car manufacturers altogether.

Watch this question and answer. https://youtu.be/I6-oOz8aDxE?t=4779

"The reason you can't carry on with [Rally2] is because the manufacturers aren't making those cars anymore. The homologations will run out and nobody's making those cars. So you must go to a spaceframe - you'll be surprised at how cheap those will be if we do them in big production volumes and they won't cost a lot of money" - David Richards.

Really ? Hyundai now confirm theyll likely build a new i20 Rally2 for 2027 ...

Benoit Nogier, customer racing manager, told DirtFish: “We can re-homologate a complete car based on the current street car. We have now this opportunity and we still want to improve the car, we still want to move forward, even if it’s not confirmed at 100%, we will probably launch the development of big evolutions ready for 2027."

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-aiming-to-homologate-brand-new-rally2-car-for-2027/

[deephouse]

Based on that article i20 Rally2 is a great car on tarmac. How the hell they did so wrong with their top car this year?

[wyler]

Based on that article i20 Rally2 is a great car on tarmac. How the hell they did so wrong with their top car this year?

chassis?

[WRCStan]

again...

There's no FIA source I can find directly saying they have to come from production runs nor be already homologated Rally2. All the language is 'base' and 'basis' as in tech spec and power-level philosophy. Until this is made clear I'll remain open to the possibility I can build 10 engines to Rally2 tech specs in my shed.

There's also the possibility that what goes for 2027/2028 isn't the long term. Because moving away from relying on manufacturers building cars to relying on manufacturer to power the new cars makes 0 sense.

[WRCStan]

Really ? Hyundai now confirm theyll likely build a new i20 Rally2 for 2027 ...

Benoit Nogier, customer racing manager, told DirtFish: “We can re-homologate a complete car based on the current street car. We have now this opportunity and we still want to improve the car, we still want to move forward, even if it’s not confirmed at 100%, we will probably launch the development of big evolutions ready for 2027."

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-aiming-to-homologate-brand-new-rally2-car-for-2027/

DR's point is the i20 N went out of production a few years ago. They can and probably will extend the homologation, but that is hardly a boon for WRC unless it becomes a historic championship.

[doubled1978]

The rumours of the EU kicking the switch to EV’s into the long grass and also some noise about smaller cars like the i20 being able to be sold without all the ADAS systems to keep the prices sensible, may actually be of benefit to the WRC as manufactures will hopefully again have suitable cars to promote. It’s all if’s, but’s and maybe’s until anything gets officially announced, but if those things come to pass, it could be good rallying.

[deephouse]

Suitable cars? There will all be suitable from 2027 forward. No excuses from brands about ''body shape''. As history proves, every shape did somehow work at some point (there were Lancers, 037's, Mini...). And somehow I have a feeling that everyone will still use this B segment cars, as this is proven currently the best... Except everyone will build SUV's (which I wouldn't be surprised at all).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

DR's point is the i20 N went out of production a few years ago. They can and probably will extend the homologation, but that is hardly a boon for WRC unless it becomes a historic championship.

The N may have gone (still on sale in Australasia ?) but the i20 is still on sale.

And if the spaceframe is so cheap and easy, Hyundai still dont build one due to:

"...the big number that we all need to really pay attention to, it is the running cost. It’s maybe OK to build a car for €345,000 euros, but maybe on those €345,000 cars, if a door costs €10,000, this is not acceptable in the customer world. And this is really what we need to pay attention to. What will be the price for the dampers? For the under-protection of the car? We consume all those parts quite a lot on Rally2. And we have to be cost efficient."

[Fast Eddie WRC]

DR's point is the i20 N went out of production a few years ago. They can and probably will extend the homologation, but that is hardly a boon for WRC unless it becomes a historic championship.

The i20N N may have gone off sale in Europe but its still on sale in Australasia.

And if the spaceframe is so cheap and easy, Hyundai still dont build one due to:

"...the running cost. It’s maybe OK to build a car for €345,000 euros, but maybe on those €345,000 cars, if a door costs €10,000, this is not acceptable in the customer world. And this is really what we need to pay attention to. What will be the price for the dampers? For the under-protection of the car? We consume all those parts quite a lot on Rally2. And we have to be cost efficient."

[WRCStan]

The i20N N may have gone off sale in Europe but its still on sale in Australasia.

Ok thanks.

[Steve Boyd]

There's no FIA source I can find directly
That's the problem with all of this. It's all "he said that she said that somebody in the next street heard that ......"

We're relying on sports journo's with no technical background relaying what the FIA publicity people say. The actual technical regulations are often hidden from us because they're in things like homologation application forms that are only available to manufacturers. Without direct sight of those rules it's all guesswork - and pretty annoying!

[OldF]

TThe actual technical regulations are often hidden from us because they're in things like homologation application forms that are only available to manufacturers. Without direct sight of those rules it's all guesswork - and pretty annoying!

It is (annoying). The only public regulations are the specific regulations but they do not include much technical details, mainly instructions for the user of the car which parts of the car has been homologated for rally use, how an original part can be modified etc.

Anyway, here is what the regulations said for 2011. In 2011 the idea was to use the same basic car for both regional and wrc rallies, but the car was too expensive for regional rallies.

2011 HOMOLOGATION REGULATIONS FOR SUPER 2000 KIT-VARIANT (RALLIES) / WRC
https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:a6b2c3ee-12ce-4480-8436-2654d73f06f0

7.1 The following parts may be homologated in the Super 2000 Rally Kit Variant (VK-S2000-Rally) under the following conditions: PAGE 4 (7.1.1 Engine pages 5-11)
This part is probably when using a production engine.

7.3 Only for a WRC Type car, the following parts may be homologated: PAGES 18-19
These are the parts that only WRC cars can use.

APPENDIX: ENGINE, PAGES 33-39
Global Race Engine.

Here is the M-Sport Ford Fiesta regional rally car (RRC). Regional rally cars were not an official name for the car but used by M-Sport. Note that it had a 30 mm restrictor compared to the 33 mm restrictor for the WRC version.
https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:9da14ecb-2080-4b06-8ce4-ce9bf672ab46

[Kenneth]

The i20N N may have gone off sale in Europe but its still on sale in Australasia.

And if the spaceframe is so cheap and easy, Hyundai still dont build one due to:

"...the running cost. It’s maybe OK to build a car for €345,000 euros, but maybe on those €345,000 cars, if a door costs €10,000, this is not acceptable in the customer world. And this is really what we need to pay attention to. What will be the price for the dampers? For the under-protection of the car? We consume all those parts quite a lot on Rally2. And we have to be cost efficient."

lmao idk if Hyundai is just trying to be stupid or what. They don't know how much dampers and under-protection cost in their Rally2? They don't know the doors cost on their cars? Because the costs for these things will be pretty much the same.

It's the same stupid act as when Cyril said that they don't have an engine when they have one in Rally2.

They could just straight say that instead of developing new space frame car, they want to continue with Rally2, because that car is close to being really fast, instead of all these non-reasons why they cannot build WRC27, which are borderline embarasing.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Maybe. But Benoit Nogier is the customer racing manager and he sees a better business case for upgrading / re-homologaing the Rally2 car than building a WRC27. New and existing i20 owners can both buy and upgrade cars bring in money.

Plus Lancia already has 30 order for their new Rally2 car, probably because Rally2 is a proven concept.

[OldF]

By the words of Christian Loriaux in this article 20.12.2024 https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/loriaux-warns-2027-wrc-regulations-are-already-too-late/ both current rally2 engines and current rally1 engine are not options for wrc27 cars because of the Euro 7 emissions regulations.

“…. highlighting that making current Rally2 engines the basis of 2027 regulations was not an option long-term.”

“The 2027 regulations concept leans on road-going production engines, instead of the purpose-built race engines that have featured since the start of the last World Rally Car regulation cycle in 2017. That will make such engines beholden to Euro 7 emissions regulations once they are rolled out. All new consumer vehicles with fewer than eight seats built after November 29, 2027, must be Euro 7 compliant.”

The so-called global race engine (GRE) has been used in WRC cars from the beginning of 2011. It is hard to believe that similar “RALLY2 GRE” would not be used from 2027 onwards. This engine will be in use for 10 years and the manufacturers and tuners (constructors in the future) do not have to care what engines are manufactured and used in road cars.

[WRCStan]

Maybe. But Benoit Nogier is the customer racing manager and he sees a better business case for upgrading / re-homologaing the Rally2 car than building a WRC27. New and existing i20 owners can both buy and upgrade cars bring in money.

Even I can see that, as there's no obligation to enter WRC and do all the rallies. FIA are looking for more WRC manufs/constructor/team entrants, so it's obvious what they will have to do to Rally2. Long term it won't be the better business case.

[deephouse]

lmao idk if Hyundai is just trying to be stupid or what. They don't know how much dampers and under-protection cost in their Rally2? They don't know the doors cost on their cars? Because the costs for these things will be pretty much the same.

It's the same stupid act as when Cyril said that they don't have an engine when they have one in Rally2.

They could just straight say that instead of developing new space frame car, they want to continue with Rally2, because that car is close to being really fast, instead of all these non-reasons why they cannot build WRC27, which are borderline embarasing.

Is he the worst boss in history of WRC? What did he achieve in Caterham and Renault? And how the hell he did get the job at the top of one of the biggest WRC teams?

[Kenneth]

Maybe. But Benoit Nogier is the customer racing manager and he sees a better business case for upgrading / re-homologaing the Rally2 car than building a WRC27. New and existing i20 owners can both buy and upgrade cars bring in money.

Plus Lancia already has 30 order for their new Rally2 car, probably because Rally2 is a proven concept.

Yeah imo making upgraded Rally2 makes perfect sense for Hyundai, they made a good progress with it, and given how bad their newly developed cars usually are, continuing on developing it is just a no-brainer.

It's just their media statements that are embarrassing. Always acts like "I'm just a car, I don't know anything, everything is just against us :'("

[Sulland]

€345 000 for a new 26 Rally1 is less than a new Rally2, not sure for all brands, but for some.

Lets give the new class a chance, but knowing the engineers capabilities, maybe FIA went 1 step too far, and made it even simpler.
I would have liked the minimum length size to go from polo to golf size, so minimum 4300 mm. This would improve safety inside the car, and male them less nervous to drive.

[deephouse]

Rally2 car costs around 250,000, while development was 1-2 million... WRC27 will "cost" 345,000 and development will be??? 20 million. Lancia said it loud. It does not make any point spending so much if you have similar and way cheaper car to build. Why would anyone else bother? I mean tuners and potentially new teams. Toyota of course would build the car even if it would costs 500 million, so I don't count them. But I too don't see a point in all those non-sense. At the end everyone will follow that route (and Toyota might too) adopt Rally2 car and what do you think will happen if no one will run WRC27 car?

[TypeR]

Rally2 cars have gone up by a loot.

Tanak's team selling one fully rebuilt/but still used Yaris rslly2 for 370k..

Looks very nice, but that price is heavyy :D

[jcevc]

Rally2 car costs around 250,000, while development was 1-2 million... WRC27 will "cost" 345,000 and development will be??? 20 million. Lancia said it loud. It does not make any point spending so much if you have similar and way cheaper car to build. Why would anyone else bother? I mean tuners and potentially new teams. Toyota of course would build the car even if it would costs 500 million, so I don't count them. But I too don't see a point in all those non-sense. At the end everyone will follow that route (and Toyota might too) adopt Rally2 car and what do you think will happen if no one will run WRC27 car?

FIA price cap is one of the biggest scams ever ;)
no one respecting this, Skoda and Toyota are far over 300.000€, already on the level of this so called 2027 Rally1.

[Kenneth]

Rally2 car costs around 250,000, while development was 1-2 million... WRC27 will "cost" 345,000 and development will be??? 20 million.

Why would the developement be 20 milion lol... I doubt it will cost more than Rally2 to develop it, the parts are more or less the same, except with WRC27 they don't have to worry about the limitations of the base chassis.. Only downside is the cost of FIA chassis vs road car chassis, but that probably won't matter that much when they'll be produced in higher numbers.

[deephouse]

Believe me, it will cost way more as it is capped at. That's why no one stand in line for those cars and everyone stands in line for Rally2 cars. I don't like it either, but the reality sucks. FIA (again) fucked up (I'm not sorry for bad words) for their (too) late decisions. It's not anymore excuse about "new promotor" because there isn't decided on that yet. It's them, and only them. I think that those who sits at the oval tables never actually saw the sport and have bunch of papers with numbers infront of them thinking they are doing great, and of course get fat paychecks for nothing.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Does anyone know how big a difference there is between the Rally1 Car spaceframe and the proposed new WRC27 spaceframe ?

I just wondered if Hyundai and MSport could use their Rally 1 spaceframe and switch to Rally2-spec components ?

[Sulland]

Rally2 car costs around 250,000, while development was 1-2 million... WRC27 will "cost" 345,000 and development will be??? 20 million. Lancia said it loud. It does not make any point spending so much if you have similar and way cheaper car to build. Why would anyone else bother? I mean tuners and potentially new teams. Toyota of course would build the car even if it would costs 500 million, so I don't count them. But I too don't see a point in all those non-sense. At the end everyone will follow that route (and Toyota might too) adopt Rally2 car and what do you think will happen if no one will run WRC27 car?


Why is this one so Expensive?

https://rallycarsforsale.net/ads/toyota-yaris-gr-rally2/

[jcevc]

Why is this one so Expensive?

https://rallycarsforsale.net/ads/toyota-yaris-gr-rally2/

Because you can use it tomorrow on the rally, for new one from TGR you will wait at least few months (I don`t know exact lead times for differenta rally2 cars at the moment - but situation was the same when new Skoda came, lead times were more than one year - for sure if your are not important team or have very good connections).

[FUNKYXXXXX]

Why is this one so Expensive?

https://rallycarsforsale.net/ads/toyota-yaris-gr-rally2/

Rally2 cars costs 250.000 without VAT and without transformation kit (from tarmac to gravel and vice versa) plus set of tools for gearbox, diffs and some optional parts. (hydraulic jack, etc.)
You can get it faster without waiting for a new build, but the owner requests a lot.

[PLuto]

Why is this one so Expensive?

https://rallycarsforsale.net/ads/toyota-yaris-gr-rally2/

And of course it's a question of supply and demand. They are trying to sell it for this price and maybe they will find someone who will pay for it...

[OldF]

[QUOTE=Sulland;1371357]Why is this one so Expensive?

https://rallycarsforsale.net/ads/toyota-yaris-gr-rally2/ [/QUOTE (https://rallycarsforsale.net/ads/toyota-yaris-gr-rally2/%5b/QUOTE)]

RedGrey Team offers for sale tarmac or gravel spec Yaris Rally2 #030.
Full rebuild, regardless of cost. Lot of new parts. Chassis fully painted.

[OldF]

At the end everyone will follow that route (and Toyota might too) adopt Rally2 car and what do you think will happen if no one will run WRC27 car?

But the homologations of rally2 cars will expire at some point.

11.12.2024
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-teams-warn-2027-car-cost-cap-isnt-feasible/

“The current plan is for homologation of Rally2 cars to stop at the end of 2026, with the final year of Rally2 homologation validity ending in 2030, car dependent.”

[OldF]

Does anyone know how big a difference there is between the Rally1 Car spaceframe and the proposed new WRC27 spaceframe ?

I just wondered if Hyundai and MSport could use their Rally 1 spaceframe and switch to Rally2-spec components ?

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/what-we-know-about-wrc-2027-so-far/

“Mestelan: “If you compare the current Rally 1 with the new WRC27, they will, in fact, be very similar [in shape and size] The main difference will be the height of the car. The new one will be 20 millimeters higher for the obvious safety advantage. But in terms of width and so on, it will be very similar. For the weight, both [WRC27 and Rally2] cars will be very similar.”

[Andre Oliveira]

Project Rally One, headed up by Yves Matton and Lionel Hansen, is the first new constructor to confirm its WRC 2027 entry

https://dirtfish-editorial.s3-accelerate.amazonaws.com/2025/12/IL20251217084455-WhatsApp-Image-2025-12-16-at-19.48.17-scaled-1600x500.jpeg

The World Rally Championship has its first confirmed ‘constructor’ for the 2027 season, with former Citroën team principal Yves Matton jointly heading the development of Project Rally One.

The announcement of the new car, which is intended to be ready for the start of the 2027 season, comes just one week on from the FIA World Motor Sport Council’s confirmation of a more inclusive constructor framework. In just over 12 months, the WRC will allow independent tuners to build and run cars alongside and against original equipment manufacturers in the race for the inaugural FIA WRC constructors’ crown.

Designed to the FIA’s all-new WRC27 regulations – which stipulate a tubular spaceframe safety cell, double wishbone suspension, four-wheel drive and a 1600cc turbocharged engine – the first Project Rally One chassis is complete with prototype assembly underway and the car’s first test set for spring next year.

Experienced motorsport engineer and co-founder of Project Rally One, Lionel Hansen, said: “The entry of Project Rally One to the FIA World Rally Championship is a hugely important moment for us. To be the first to present a new car for the WRC’s next era is something we are extremely proud of.

“The introduction of the WRC27 regulations gave us the opportunity to take the step into the championship. The new technical framework creates the right environment for independent projects like ours, allowing us to develop a car from the ground up and compete against manufacturers at the highest level.

“The progress we have already made gives us real confidence in the direction we are taking. With the chassis complete and the prototype now in assembly, we are in a strong position as we prepare for the first shakedown this spring and continue development towards the car’s debut.”

FIA sets out requirements for WRC27 constructors

The car, which will have to meet the regulated €345,000 cost cap, is being developed with a particular focus on suspension and geometry optimisation, weight distribution and reliability. Once homologated, it will retain that status for the next 10 years.

FIA deputy president for sport Malcolm Wilson said the new car demonstrated WRC27 regulations were succeeding in the stated aim of lowering the barrier to WRC entry for tuners to compete against manufacturers.

“The arrival of Project Rally One is a significant moment for the FIA World Rally Championship,” he said. “It confirms that the move toward a more cost-effective and accessible technical framework is already generating new engagement with the sport. Attracting new entrants is essential for the long-term growth of the WRC, and it is encouraging to see other tuners preparing to compete alongside manufacturers.”

Four years in the making, FIA chief technical and safety officer Xavier Mestelan Pinon said the new rules were delivering on president Mohammed Ben Sulayem’s promise.

Mestelan Pinon said: “The vision for WRC27 was first laid out when FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem called for a regulatory framework that would reduce costs, broaden participation and ensure long-term stability for the FIA World Rally Championship. Over the past four years, we have worked to develop a regulatory framework that places safety, affordability, flexibility and accessibility at its heart, creating a formula that is attractive to new entrants to the championship.

https://dirtfish-editorial.s3-accelerate.amazonaws.com/2025/12/FxxZer6b-Screenshot-2025-12-17-at-08.40.52-780x522.png

The first Project One chassis is complete with testing to begin in the spring

“The entry of Project Rally One to the FIA World Rally Championship is a clear indication that this vision is taking shape. By opening homologation to tuners and introducing a cost-effective long-term technical framework for the category, we have created an environment where tuners can enter the WRC on equal terms with manufacturers. Project Rally One illustrates exactly what this vision was designed to achieve, and it confirms that the new era of the FIA World Rally Championship is already beginning to deliver the growth and diversity the sport needs.”

WRC Promoter’s director of sport Peter Thul said the move demonstrated confidence in the series. He added: “The fact that this comes so soon on the back of the announcement of the WRC27 regulations confirms the appetite from the automotive world to be part of the pinnacle of rallying. It fills us with confidence that this will be just the first of many such announcements to come.

“We, as the promoter, are here to help Lionel [Hansen] and Yves [Matton] to reach their ambitions and we are certain that the mix of WRC27-homologated cars alongside the existing Rally2 cars will generate one of the deepest fields of competition in the WRC in recent memory.”

Ten of the new Project Rally One cars will need to be produced within 24 months of the homologation date, while Hansen and Matton must commit two cars to at least 50% of the WRC calendar in its first season of competition. From then on, at least 10 race-ready cars must be commercially available.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/new-constructor-project-rally-one-enters-wrc-2027/

[meh]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/new-constructor-project-rally-one-enters-wrc-2027/

Official one as well: https://www.wrc.com/en/news/project-rally-one-set-to-join-wrc-as-first-new-wrc27-constructor-from-2027

[GigiGalliNo1]

Interesting.

Will be nice to see this against the Toyota Celica WRCar (which yes, it's built and in testing) :D

[Sal yet again]

Looks like a buggy to me! I'm a great fan of off road racing in Europe like the Tout Terrain championship in France and this feels awfully like this is the way the WRC is heading with this new formula. Ironically I'd prefer the Rally 2 approach but looks like I'm in the minority!

Just been thinking that Colin McRae saw the future back in the early 2000s with the McRae R4, guess the FIA must have remembered that car also..

[typhoon]

The important thing is that another constructor is coming, then if a manufacturer wants to "sponsor" it with some millions, it will be easy to fix the bodywork to make it resemble a production car.

Also, for manufacturers not fully interested in committing the full necessary budget, it would be cheaper to team up with an existing tuner, cutting the R&D costs. Results are not that important, Skoda in the early 2000s invaded the Greek market just because they were around at Rally Acropolis (like, seriously, Fabia and Octavia were very common models to be seen around Greek cities).

[wyler]

Looks like a buggy to me! I'm a great fan of off road racing in Europe like the Tout Terrain championship in France and this feels awfully like this is the way the WRC is heading with this new formula. Ironically I'd prefer the Rally 2 approach but looks like I'm in the minority!

Just been thinking that Colin McRae saw the future back in the early 2000s with the McRae R4, guess the FIA must have remembered that car also..

looks like a porsche to some people around (also looking at the wall in the pictures...)

[wyler]

question: if a "tuner" has to use a "constructor" mechanical package, are they using toyota's wrc27? or can they use a rally2 package?

[Andre Oliveira]

looks like a porsche to some people around (also looking at the wall in the pictures...)

Pictures are of Porsche build that they sell: Porsche 992 Rally GT

[Kenneth]

question: if a "tuner" has to use a "constructor" mechanical package, are they using toyota's wrc27? or can they use a rally2 package?

FIA changed it and both tuner and manufacturer = constructor. So they just can develop it on their own.

[focus206]

Looks like a buggy to me! I'm a great fan of off road racing in Europe like the Tout Terrain championship in France and this feels awfully like this is the way the WRC is heading with this new formula. Ironically I'd prefer the Rally 2 approach but looks like I'm in the minority!

Just been thinking that Colin McRae saw the future back in the early 2000s with the McRae R4, guess the FIA must have remembered that car also..

I don't think you are in the minority among rally fans.
At least poor Colin planned to make some road version of the R4 to sell to the public...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Interesting.

Will be nice to see this against the Toyota Celica WRCar (which yes, it's built and in testing) :D

The rumoured new Celica is a low-slung sports coupe. A WRC27 version with the new (taller than Rally1) spaceframe ? Are you sure you dont mean Corolla ?

[Kenneth]

Rally2 car costs around 250,000, while development was 1-2 million... WRC27 will "cost" 345,000 and development will be??? 20 million.

So Mr. deephouse can you explain how the Project Rally One can enter WRC when the developement cost is 20 milion?

[wyler]

So Mr. deephouse can you explain how the Project Rally One can enter WRC when the developement cost is 20 milion?

i'm sure their dev cost will be nowhere near toyota's...

[GigiGalliNo1]

The rumoured new Celica is a low-slung sports coupe. A WRC27 version with the new (taller than Rally1) spaceframe ? Are you sure you dont mean Corolla ?

Seen it with my eye balls.

[WRCStan]

Project Rally One, headed up by Yves Matton and Lionel Hansen, is the first new constructor to confirm its WRC 2027 entry

This is the most exciting and positive news I've heard from WRC world for a while. Best of luck to them.

[WRCStan]

Looks like a buggy to me!

Have you seen photos with bodywork?

[Sal yet again]

Have you seen photos with bodywork?

Dont need to! I love off road racing and in fact spent more time around NORC events last year than rallying and know what most base chassis look like. Check out the Lofthouse Freelander for example.

Been doing some more thinking since my original post and you know what I never thought twice at the time that most of the Group B cars bore little or no resemblance to machines in the manufacturer ranges. A RS200 minus its front and back bodywork wasnt too disimilar to the image of the Matton car. Its just that they were manufacturer teams and not like single seaters built by men in sheds.

Happy to review when more info and images become available.

[doubled1978]

Dont need to! I love off road racing and in fact spent more time around NORC events last year than rallying and know what most base chassis look like. Check out the Lofthouse Freelander for example.

Been doing some more thinking since my original post and you know what I never thought twice at the time that most of the Group B cars bore little or no resemblance to machines in the manufacturer ranges. A RS200 minus its front and back bodywork wasnt too disimilar to the image of the Matton car. Its just that they were manufacturer teams and not like single seaters built by men in sheds.

Happy to review when more info and images become available.

To be fair, the RS200 was built by Reliant, and that ‘factory’ could easily have been classed as a shed!

[Sal yet again]

True but we dont need to go back to those days!

[trykmann]

Group B tubular frames didn't look much different.

https://www.wrcwings.tech/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/chassis-by-lanciarally027com.jpg

https://www.racecarsdirect.com/content/UserImages/153746/936102.jpg?v=2

https://media.istockphoto.com/id/803712956/photo/peugeot-205-t16-group-b-rally-car.jpg?s=1024x1024&w=is&k=20&c=s03n70qDrUTKVl7uNP4qbQOXxkb_BMZqdxidlQGKJQk=

[WRCStan]

Check out the Lofthouse Freelander for example.

Not sure what you're calling a buggy. If it's cause it looks 'off-roady', fair enough.

Just had a quick look at those - look production rail chasses based to me. I ran the reg of this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B83j_cYZ5KI), it checks out and even has a current MOT. Maybe they removed front and rear sub assemblies to do their own thing, don't know without more sources. Still a car.