WRC mainclass from 2027

[saco0o]

just to clarify my thoughts on that part: these discussions have been going on for a while. wrc has two manufacturers participating. during all the meetings to decide whats next, one of these 2 brands start to say around that they may leave depending on what direction the rules goes (because they know where the decisions are heading, they are on the meetings). if they didnt cared about losing hyundai to define this set of rules is probably because there was more people om this table agreeing with them. not saying new manufacturers per se, but at least other teams, for sure. otherwise they'd keep some efforts to please hyundai too, like they did when they cancelled the ditching of hybrid at that first time.
does that make sense? im thinking more of some wrc2/erc/middle-east teams thinking "yep, we can enter rally1 with these cheaper cars", not actual factory teams.

[deephouse]

just to clarify my thoughts on that part: these discussions have been going on for a while. wrc has two manufacturers participating. during all the meetings to decide whats next, one of these 2 brands start to say around that they may leave depending on what direction the rules goes (because they know where the decisions are heading, they are on the meetings). if they didnt cared about losing hyundai to define this set of rules is probably because there was more people om this table agreeing with them. not saying new manufacturers per se, but at least other teams, for sure. otherwise they'd keep some efforts to please hyundai too, like they did when they cancelled the ditching of hybrid at that first time.
does that make sense? im thinking more of some wrc2/erc/middle-east teams thinking "yep, we can enter rally1 with these cheaper cars", not actual factory teams.

But you must understand that Hyundai threat of quitting for several years now. Practically every time when changes are on table or not. They gave them jokers, been late on development and demand some stuff constantly. Why? So they will quit anyway? (No matter how they say, they want more competition) Why would they listen only them? When there is one team, which is really trying to be in the sport on a year basis without proper support and by the way are the most loyal in the history of the sport.

[becher]

So the cars will be spec or just like now with a spec roll cage structure integrated into the chassis?

[PLuto]

i think it was just cool to listen. as someone actvely involved in the sport and on these decisions, one can feel Andrew is more optimistic about the sport than most fans have been over these last years, 'uknow? dave evans knows when to 'cut' him shortly when he starts to spiral into some P.R. bs but at the same time, dave represented us fans, filled with doubts, questions and negative views about every little thing. it was an interesting dynamic. its almost like I was there complaining and asking questions lol

on the rules it was more or less the expected. FIA wants more safety so thats why they went space frame. homologations will be simpler. they will use these rules for 10 years. these new rules were decided among several stakeholders trying to find a better cheaper way for the sport. i even got the impression that there was more people involved on these meetings (nothing specific, but i left hoping theres potential new entries for the future, who knows!). they talked about rally2 being so good and so much cheap that several "rich" drivers simply didnt wanted to go wrc or rally1 car and that was one of the reasons why we lost entries on the top class, but now the top cars will be cheaper, more people will jump (so... rally2s will only win a wrc event if all "rally1' crash. Thierry was speaking non-sense). they talked about the lack of direction for road cars (ice, hybrid, evs, hydrogen) so the obvious decision was to have them all, since the world is not going full EV, theres going to have space for every type of engines. dave asked about "shouldnt we go EV to be ahead? hybrids exist since the 90's, we were so late to the game" and Andrew say that they would have to change way too much the sport in order to accomodate evs, so they need to wait a few more years until the technology is at the right level for a rallying event. they talked about "lack of promotion, cuz drivers are not national heroes anymore, on newspaper covers" but c'moon, that boat has sailed, Dave. 'people dont follow 3 day events, shouldnt we change everything?". Andrew says that best way to get someone hooked into rally is to bring them to the stages. Andrew mentions that the past regulations (17 and 22) never had budget cap, so the costs went crazy (from expensiver lighter bolts to more engineers analysing data, probably), but now they will do it right. i feel they kinda 'regreat' going for hybrids, maybe?

they briefly talked about world rx... not sure dave knows something but apparently maybe FIA itself can take over the promotion... i didnt understand that tbf. anyway, nothing special, it was just cool to listen these two chatting as a whole

Thank you for summary.

[PLuto]

But you must understand that Hyundai threat of quitting for several years now. Practically every time when changes are on table or not. They gave them jokers, been late on development and demand some stuff constantly. Why? So they will quit anyway? (No matter how they say, they want more competition) Why would they listen only them? When there is one team, which is really trying to be in the sport on a year basis without proper support and by the way are the most loyal in the history of the sport.

It is sure for long time that Hyundai will stay until the end of 2026. Question is the next future...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5z9TWhGhgF7FlpFxjXTK97?si=zX7uUtUiQcCfd9SXRsM-jw%0A
Andrew Wheatley talking about his departure and next gen rules. a good listen to be fair

It was very good and interesting to hear from someone who's been on the inside while all the discussions were going on about the future of WRC.

[saco0o]

idk whats the future but i'd love to see hyundai continuing without Cyril and racing this new car >> https://youtu.be/x_CkztJ4PHk?feature=shared

add renault, al atyah, chicherit and prodrive (theyre partners in dakar, right?) with this new car https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/renault/5/365366/new-renault-5-turbo-3e-500bhp-electric-hot-hatch-enter-limited-production

plus msport, toyota, skoda (cmoon, ia just a matter of building/buying the space frame) and we start to get some excitment back! lol

[Sulland]

Now the Manufacturers say the cost cap figure isnt feasible...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-teams-warn-2027-car-cost-cap-isnt-feasible/

Sorry, make it work, or say go one level down.
if we had put all top drivers in Rally3 cars, after a few rallies we would continue to chear, and enjoy the fights!

[Steve Boyd]

You are talking about 30 years old history. Also basic rally cars were made in different style. Now everything is on the limits with balance between price/weight/endurance.Increasing the engine power has less of an effect on driveshafts and differentials than you might expect. The most torque you can put on a driveshaft (apart from shock loading) is the torque needed to spin the wheels. I'd guess that the torque needed to spin a dry tarmac rally tyre on dry tarmac would be higher than that needed to spin a more heavily treaded RX tyre so the loading in RX use may actually be less than in rally use. RX events are much shorter than WRC events so I wouldn't be surprised if they would only need the same number of rebuilds in a season.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Neuville says the divers weren't on the discussion panel and voted No to the new Regs...

https://rallyjournal.com/big-concerns-over-wrc-overhaul-champions-shocking-perspective/

[saco0o]

Neuville says the divers weren't on the discussion panel and voted No to the new Regs...

https://rallyjournal.com/big-concerns-over-wrc-overhaul-champions-shocking-perspective/

employees shouldnt have a vote since they are not the ones putting the money where their mouth is, to be fair.
i still see these decisions as a way to bring more teams and privateers. we have thousand of R5s out there, so people HAVE the money, in a way. Andrew Wheatley even said the reason we lost privateers was because the price. when (2012) the price gap between "rally2 and rally1' (whatever the names of the classes back then) was "smaller", we saw more drivers trying out to move up. we lost that. it is 100% positive to have a top class with simpler cheaper cars. the top guns dont want to lose their reign. they want to get their milion bucks to compete. they dont want others interfering on their way to the top.
....its a classical thing eh? WHEN THE PEASANTS START TO HAVE A SHOT, THE ELITE GETS BOTHERED!
hahahahahahahah i said this as a joke but ehhhh theres some truth to that?? hahahah

[EstWRC]

Loriaux not happy

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/loriaux-warns-2027-wrc-regulations-are-already-too-late/

[deephouse]

Loriaux not happy

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/loriaux-warns-2027-wrc-regulations-are-already-too-late/

So again Hyundai complaining. I hope that they will not change everything againg because of them. To me it looks like it's only excuses to them to leave completely. I bet Toyota and M-Sport will do it without major issues, and hyundai with all that resources ''can't''.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Loriaux not happy

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/loriaux-warns-2027-wrc-regulations-are-already-too-late/

His argument about the engines is fair. The current road-car based Rally2 engines cant go on.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The Dirtfish writers have their say...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/is-the-wrc-heading-in-the-right-direction/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3jSdoUS8VKCQgWIwjMWf2f uDo9d00n41pMiCOsV06Y17apqD3NpxlgDhg_aem_cdBjo7qILI TLlGrRebVpUA

[saco0o]

soooo... dakar/w2rc cars to be allowed in wrc, erc too?
https://www.diariomotor.com/competicion/noticia/rally-dakar-wrc/

[pedro16]

soooo... dakar/w2rc cars to be allowed in wrc, erc too?
https://www.diariomotor.com/competicion/noticia/rally-dakar-wrc/

December 28th... Día de los santos inocentes.
Spanish equivalent of April fools.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ben Sulayem apologises...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fia-president-apologizes-for-lack-of-wrc-fixes/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GhLSGEtW0AAY7d9?format=jpg&name=medium

[rallyfiend]

Ben Sulayem apologises...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fia-president-apologizes-for-lack-of-wrc-fixes/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GhLSGEtW0AAY7d9?format=jpg&name=medium

Why on earth would anyone want MBS more involved in anything?

He leaves a trail of mess everywhere he goes.

[saco0o]

its election's year at FIA, hes just "kissing babies" in public

[Maui J.]

Interesting article on Dirtfish about Hayden Paddon running his own team under WRC2027 regulations.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/paddon-attracted-by-wrcs-future-but-not-as-a-driver/

The most interesting part was this quote...
“These new rules that have been announced for ‘27 are definitely of interest and definitely create opportunities for people like us to potentially build and run our own cars,” Paddon told DirtFish.

So if the FIA has dropped the manufacturers consent/homolagation rules this will open up the potential for private teams/tuners like Paddon's to build and run their own cars. Not sure what he would build though, he has strong connections with Hyundai New Zealand so that would conflict with the current factory team (if they are still involved by then). Maybe KIA, as it comes under the Hyundai umbrella.

On this same topic, what ever happened to the large building Petter Solberg build? There were rumours that he was going to build his own cars. Back in 2020 he's quoted as saying he was in talks with two manufactures to build and run their cars but I think Covid put an end to that. Any updates on this?

[deephouse]

Interesting article on Dirtfish about Hayden Paddon running his own team under WRC2027 regulations.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/paddon-attracted-by-wrcs-future-but-not-as-a-driver/

The most interesting part was this quote...
“These new rules that have been announced for ‘27 are definitely of interest and definitely create opportunities for people like us to potentially build and run our own cars,” Paddon told DirtFish.

So if the FIA has dropped the manufacturers consent/homolagation rules this will open up the potential for private teams/tuners like Paddon's to build and run their own cars. Not sure what he would build though, he has strong connections with Hyundai New Zealand so that would conflict with the current factory team (if they are still involved by then). Maybe KIA, as it comes under the Hyundai umbrella.

On this same topic, what ever happened to the large building Petter Solberg build? There were rumours that he was going to build his own cars. Back in 2020 he's quoted as saying he was in talks with two manufactures to build and run their cars but I think Covid put an end to that. Any updates on this?

Guess that Toyota happens. I think he was aiming at Subaru and all that talk around them at that time. Still fingers crossed that it's possible.

About Hayden. If Hyundai will leave he could take over their "project" and being in charge of Hyundai in rallying at the top level. But I don't think that will be Neuville there since their stormy past. Joke aside.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Still a lot of uncertainty and discussions to be had, says Rich Millener.

Also getting new cars ready for 2027 and at €345k is ambitious, plus new Manufacturers not guaranteed.

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-team-boss-gave-his-honest-take-on-the-series-ambitious-target-there-is-still-some-discussion-to-be-had-there/

[saco0o]

the americans are also trying to do something about their top class. Not sure a 200k is the answer for them tho.....

https://dirtfish.com/rally/ara/details-revealed-about-revolutionary-arc2-car/?fbclid=IwY2xjawJvklBleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHqPhyNHwzzhs NjjaVx2eB73DB0FQsWA6lTZJ1y6w_tSxawV3T1sLt3O84UAI_a em_a8vZPCzB6juLMDydjjnKyA

[Dimitris]

They're making a 2nd class car that costs almost as much as a Rally2. No thanks.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Latvala confirms Rally2 will be the only option if/when Hyundai withdraws:

https://rallyjournal.com/jari-matti-latvala-made-a-firm-statement-on-hyundais-possible-tough-decision-then-there-are-no-alternatives/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR775GrKZPACEs8BgZEkAVqv LwPjPOWpgWZQljjYhIUA9A38rIKQyXeHZY2uMQ_aem_NcDU2Wb zMcccB4s0_6sXpw

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Latest from Dirtfish....

"At a media roundtable on the eve of this week’s Rally Islas Canarias, FIA chief technical officer Xavier Mestelan Pinon revealed that “all the last details” of the bodywork will not be signed off until August – just 16 months before the new regulations will be introduced."

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/timeframe-revealed-for-wrc-2027-regs-finalization/

[becher]

So it's a spec series then. Not worthy of world championship.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So it's a spec series then. Not worthy of world championship.

Only the spaceframe, everything to hang on it isn't specified, much like Rally1 but considerably cheaper using Rally2 level parts.

[saco0o]

as long as R5s are still on 'the same levels' for a few years, then its fine. because its not everybody who have the money to build/buy these new spaceframe + aerokit cars, right? if they dont extend the lifetime of the R5s, we may cause a little crisis where less people will buy them because "they will not be able to race them by 2027" (outside national championships, probably)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

as long as R5s are still on 'the same levels' for a few years, then its fine. because its not everybody who have the money to build/buy these new spaceframe + aerokit cars, right? if they dont extend the lifetime of the R5s, we may cause a little crisis where less people will buy them because "they will not be able to race them by 2027" (outside national championships, probably)

Is this still the plan, for current Rally2 Cars to compete with the new 2027-spec cars ? I cant remember any more after this has changed so many times ! ;)

[deephouse]

I think this will be the only option. But probably will not be any official manufacturer present, because let's face it. As soon there would be in any kind of form of Toyota, nobody would stand a chance. We don't have to worry about entries, because there would probably be too much of them. As other manufacturers who currently (still) produce those kind of cars are not interested for many years now, so I think this will not change.