WRC mainclass from 2027

[WRCStan]

It's not based on an available road car
And so what?

it's not on sale as a road car
And so what?

and cannot be eligible for rally championships
It is eligible for WR2C, a rally championship. You said you've seen it there.

You can call it a car as a broad term.
Oh right?

(All rhetorical)


you said it's a 100% a rally, as if a regularity rally and a speed rally are the same discipline.

Rally is rally; maybe you forget WRC is partly regularity rally in classification; time cards, controls and penalties are part of it. There's different ways to classify competitors in rally. You can have rallies where the prettiest car wins or where whoever takes photos of things along the route wins. You could have a Puma Rally1 in a regularity rally or an Ioniq in a speed rally; they both being road cars... in road rallies. Reminder that the context of ecoRally coming up in conversation was road relevance, or in my terms, 'consumer production car relevance'. No amount of mental gymnastics should be necessary.

The Alternative Energies Cup had other disciplines back in the day besides the rally 'class' that ecoRally Cup was born from. It was circuit racing and speed trials IIRC and they weren't all contested by the same cars and teams. So no, that does not mean they were all rally cars in AEC.

There used to be open cars with platforms built in for politicians to speak to crowds at rallies, back in the day in USA at least. Maybe they were called rally cars.


No, I won't check the regs.

Try it, you might learn something.

[WRCStan]

It looks like the best we can hope for is Toyota WRC27 Cars vs the existing Rally2 Cars.

Reckon promoter will back a tuner or two to beef up the entrants?

[focus206]

Try it, you might learn something.

Still going on with your ridiculous arguments? It has already been expressed, in a much clearer way than how you write, that many consider the presence of a valid related road car essential for a rally car. You don't agree? Too bad for you.

I don't care how many times you isolate words in a sentence and pedantically say that rally raid vehicles are rally cars. Speed rally is not rally raid and is not regularity rally. Different championships, different disciplines, different cars. At this point you're just wasting people's time, especially when you started the whole "fans who want to mantain a level of road relevance in rally cars shoudl go watch Eco Rally Cup instead" conversation, which has nothing to do with this topic and no rally fan would consider that seriously.

[WRCStan]

many consider the presence of a valid related road car essential for a rally car. You don't agree? Too bad for you.

Too bad for everybody if nobody ever disagreed. Also my opinion is that those points are very much related to this thread topic, we didn't get there cordially, but maybe can after some time to reset the tone.

[Steve Boyd]

Reckon promoter will back a tuner or two to beef up the entrants?If there is a promoter . . .
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/new-wrc-promoter-coming-as-fia-opens-tender/

[saco0o]

“The FIA World Rally Championship is at an exciting moment in its history. Millions of fans around the world are following the action, and new, younger audiences are driving its global growth"

"1.3 billion cumulative tv audience"

.........ohh then why the promoter is leaving ?ohh..... eeeeeeh..... no, its because.... because.... aaaaaaahnn..... ehhh

[wyler]

It looks like the best we can hope for is Toyota WRC27 Cars vs the existing Rally2 Cars.



i guess m-sport will do a new car, they cannot stay in the market with the decommissioned fiesta...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I have my own idea from what I've heard and read, but can anyone give their understanding of why they're NOT just making Rally2 (or Rally2+) Cars the top Class in 2027 ? By this I mean a car based on a road car shell as currently.

[wyler]

I have my own idea from what I've heard and read, but can anyone give their understanding of why they're NOT just making Rally2 (or Rally2+) Cars the top Class in 2027 ? By this I mean a car based on a road car shell as currently.

i guess for this "tuners" opening, so they don't need a shell, they can buid it themself.

[WRCStan]

I have my own idea from what I've heard and read, but can anyone give their understanding of why they're NOT just making Rally2 (or Rally2+) Cars the top Class in 2027 ? By this I mean a car based on a road car shell as currently.

Do you mean for the whole period or just for one year?

[deephouse]

Why there is still no announcements, Because FIA is too late. Everytime they do something it's too late. Those regs should be fully published years ago. And not throwing only some hints and then negotiate for a 8 months, and then again some hints. How would any team be able to made a good car, especially if that team isn't funded that well as Toyota. And again we hear that they are the only ones that actually started working on a new car. If Mikkelsen is claiming that he is convincing Skoda to join, that only means that they probably will not be here, because they would not wait so long. Probably we will se some new names (really big IF) in 2028 or beyond, and not in 2027 as it's suggested by officials. Right now the series is fragile it could collapse even before it could start well. I'm happy that regs will be somehow open again, but their timeline for decisions is harming this sport really hard. Why mechanics can completely rebuild the car in a few hours which is a hell of a job and those with ties can't decide anything with no deadline at all. All they do is talk for straight 8 hours during their work day. And why does it take 15 years to actually decide anything? I will never understood those offices jobs. No efficiency at all and when there is even that is completely useless.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Do you mean for the whole period or just for one year?

For the whole next period...

[saco0o]

I have my own idea from what I've heard and read, but can anyone give their understanding of why they're NOT just making Rally2 (or Rally2+) Cars the top Class in 2027 ? By this I mean a car based on a road car shell as currently.

if i'm understanding this correctly, the current R5s will be allowed to compete as the top class for the next 10 years while these models are "phased out" by the new wrc27 - so...theres that. "R5s are the new top class", in fact.

it is a sucessful formula, so FIA is kinda keeping that (since all components for the new cars are the same from current R5s), but adding more safety via the tube frame cars.
its going to take some years for the new machines to be MEGA present around europe - and the R5s will still be there anyway.
and they decided this set of rules also thiking about national and regional championships, so theres gotta be more than we know to it. like, did they talked to these national level entities and pro competitors? probably yes (i hope!)

so.... IN A WAY, R5s are the new class. i imagine the new wrc27 will eventually be stronger, for sure. but stuff like road position will still play a part, no? even if we have 40 R5s and 3 WRC27 Toyotas, i dont think Toyota will win every event, no way.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

if i'm understanding this correctly, the current R5s will be allowed to compete as the top class for the next 10 years while these models are "phased out" by the new wrc27 - so...theres that. "R5s are the new top class", in fact.

it is a sucessful formula, so FIA is kinda keeping that (since all components for the new cars are the same from current R5s), but adding more safety via the tube frame cars.
its going to take some years for the new machines to be MEGA present around europe - and the R5s will still be there anyway.
and they decided this set of rules also thiking about national and regional championships, so theres gotta be more than we know to it. like, did they talked to these national level entities and pro competitors? probably yes (i hope!)

so.... IN A WAY, R5s are the new class. i imagine the new wrc27 will eventually be stronger, for sure. but stuff like road position will still play a part, no? even if we have 40 R5s and 3 WRC27 Toyotas, i dont think Toyota will win every event, no way.

Yeah, I know all that and get it.

But I'm asking why they arent continuing with NEW Rally2 cars built as they are now, based on a road car shell ?

Only Toyota has built one recently (and that was easy for them as they had a rally-ready road car in the 4WD GR Yaris). But the likes of M-Sport Ford, Hyundai & Citroen havent built a new Rally2 car and are still hanging on with cars that are 5+ years old and some not even sold any more.

I assume they've spoken to these and other Manufacturer's and they said they cant build a new Rally2 Car with the road cars they now produce, as M-Sport have said with the Puma, because they're not viable for rallying ?

[saco0o]

Yeah, I know all that and get it.
But I'm asking why they arent continuing with NEW Rally2 cars built as they are now, based on a road car shell ?
(...)
I assume they've spoken to these and other Manufacturer's and they said they cant build a new Rally2 Car with the road cars they now produce, as M-Sport have said with the Puma, because they're not viable for rallying ?


yes, i'd go with something along these lines too mate. FIA gotta follow some EU guidelines, right? also cultural shift. im not from europe but from the stuff i read, manufacturers are little by little moving away from ICE Hatchbacks. the new bodyshells are all built with other specifications to acomotade hybrids and batteries - and I dont think manufacturers are completely giving up on autonomous driving too (more computers). and they are mostly SUVs.

so thats probably the reason, yes! (long term stuff too)...and we KNOW rally fans would HATE SUVS lol. even if they were "ICE".
and most are either Hybrid (it didnt worked) or EV (that would be the death of the sport for half of the audience, lets be honest)

plus the whole MORE SAFETY from the new tubeframes that FIA must implement.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Cheers. I'm arguing with that YouTube guy who is totally against the spaceframe car for WRC27 and wants to keep Rally2 cars as the top class.

I said if it was possible they would be, that's an easy answer to it, but it's not because Manufacturers cant use the shells of cars they sell nowadays as they're too big or tall.

[saco0o]

Cheers. I'm arguing with that YouTube guy who is totally against the spaceframe car for WRC27 and wants to keep Rally2 cars as the top class.

I said if it was possible they would be, that's an easy answer to it, but it's not because Manufacturers cant use the shells of cars they sell nowadays as they're too big or tall.

on facebook i saw the same discussions. im jus...i mean, we are all just guessing here, sure. but that seems a plausible argument: next gen of road cars are all suv hybrids or electric. 'do we want huge suvs rallying'?
tho there are crossovers, they are ok. but they are also all hybrids, eh? you are from britain, not sure if the car market is similar over there. here in south america new cars are ALL hybrid SUVs and electric Sedans. more and more are from BYD and that other chinese brand... "Great Wall something something" ? (cool name tbh)
the smaller 'new car' here is the Renegade lol

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's ironic that Toyota, the team with the last new Rally2 Car, are the first (and so far only) ones committed to a new WRC27 Car. Where would the WRC be without them and their rally-fan boss Mr Toyoda ?!

[OldF]

Funny that when they were negotiating which engine to use from 2022 onwards, M-Sport and Hyundai wanted to use a rally2 engine but Toyota wanted to continue with the current rally1 engine, global race engine. Now Toyota is the only one (so far) that has start developing a car with a rally2 engine.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-inside-line-on-wrcs-2022-tech-rules/
“DirtFish: Earlier this year, it was clear the manufacturers were divided over the way forward with the Internal Combustion Engine side of 2022. M-Sport and Hyundai favoured a move to a Rally2 base engine, while Toyota wanted to stick with the current Global Race Engine”:)

I don’t know but I interpret from the interview with Tom Fowler that FIA has developed specs for a “global” rally2 engine. Manufacturers build the engine with the same specs and if someone want to use a production engine they can present that to FIA.

https://rallyjournal.com/major-revelation-from-toyota-boss-core-principles-of-2027-regulations-already-agreed/

4.8.2025
“What I understand is there’s a specific chapter that tells you how to build an engine for the championship. If you want to commit, you follow that chapter – all the information is clearly written down,” Fowler explained.”

“There’s also an appendix that says if a manufacturer or tuner has a different requirement – for a production engine, electrification, or similar – they can present it to the FIA. The regulation could then be adapted to include more people. But as I understand it, no one has made that application, so no extra chapter has been written,” Fowler revealed.”

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Illustration of what a Dacia Sandero built to the WRC27 regulations could look like:

https://rallyjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2025/08/Dacia.jpg

And what will be underneath:

https://rallyjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2025/08/FIA-chassis-wrc27-1.jpg

https://rallyjournal.com/this-is-what-they-look-like-an-illustration-has-already-been-made-of-the-new-rally-world-championship-cars/

[wyler]

Illustration of what a Dacia Sandero built to the WRC27 regulations could look like:

https://rallyjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2025/08/Dacia.jpg



rumours about prodrive x renault '27 as for the dakar
(could be this dacia, an alpine 290, a renault5...)

[240RS]

BYD has revealed new engine designs and systems that may lead to radical changes in what energy will power cars in the near future. With WRC already geared towards new regulations for 2027, could we be headed for a rethink?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUKzqBS9Hec

[wyler]

BYD has revealed new engine designs and systems that may lead to radical changes in what energy will power cars in the near future. With WRC already geared towards new regulations for 2027, could we be headed for a rethink?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUKzqBS9Hec

fowler said the regulations have a section for the engine, but also that if someone wants to use alternatives, fia can add a chapter for it. No one did it at the moment, but it is possible for the future.

[WRCStan]

could we be headed for a rethink?

No.

Forgive me if I didn't see it for skimming, but what change is so radical?

[WRCStan]

No cost cap in the strict sense: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fia-pledges-wrc-investment-off-the-back-of-promoter-sale/

[Andre Oliveira]

Via Xabi Nicolay

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzhwgltWgAATTV3?format=jpg&name=medium

[saco0o]

via xabi nicolay

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/gzhwgltwgaattv3?format=jpg&name=medium

hohohohohohoh what!!!!?!??!?! *___*

[wyler]

Via Xabi Nicolay

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzhwgltWgAATTV3?format=jpg&name=medium

more info? where, driver...anything! : )

[saco0o]

someone on facebook suggesting the shadow under the cars is weird and theres lots of weird pixels around the "logo"
dammit i want to believe

edit: reddit user saying its Camilli driving it?

[wyler]

someone on facebook suggesting the shadow under the cars is weird and theres lots of weird pixels around the lancia logo
dammit i want to believe

looks like there's no logo as the badge looks removed...
can't say anything on the shadow, just that's a picture taken from the preview screen of a camera, not really high def...

[TypeR]

Look like rally3

[wyler]

Look like rally3

too wide wheel arch for a rally3 imho

[WRCStan]

Is the track wide enough? Going off the far B pillar visibility, shouldn't some more tubes be visible like it?

[Steve Boyd]

I can't see any sign of a roll cage in it. Edited image of a road car in my opinion.

[archie106]

No chance that is real, there hasn't been time since the regulations were released to design and build a car. Also why would they test a tarmac car with such a high ride height?

Also there would be no point building a Lancia 'test mule' as they could just use a C3 Rally2 for the initial development.

[Managarium]

Some media from Italy, said that it is a Rally2 Lancia, which will replace C3 Rally2 in 2026.

[wyler]

No chance that is real, there hasn't been time since the regulations were released to design and build a car. Also why would they test a tarmac car with such a high ride height?

Also there would be no point building a Lancia 'test mule' as they could just use a C3 Rally2 for the initial development.

in italy there was rumors already a month ago about crugnola testing a rally2 lancia.
also toyota is working on its 27 car so it is possible.
(doesn't mean that this is real though)

[Andre Oliveira]

Bonato and Crugnola tested the Rally2 mule already. The photo is real too.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So Lancia are making a Rally2 Car rather than a WRC27 Car under the new Regs ?

[wyler]

So Lancia are making a Rally2 Car rather than a WRC27 Car under the new Regs ?

i think they ll decide when the wrc27 regulation is officially defined...in the meanwhile they can use a rally2 mule for the mechanical part they ll use anyway

[WRCStan]

We know they were trying a Rally2 from last year already, but that rear wing is some addition. There was chat that they would launch the car at RIS 2026. Now we know that Rally Italia being moved location and slot adds more interest.

Lancia if you are reading, may I remind you of an old Italian saying; 'fai la cacca o alzati dal vasino'.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Adamo on a WRC podcast said he was healthy again... and on working again, 'never say never'. Maybe he might return with Lancia who he has a history with.

[wyler]

lancia y rally2/2027

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wgmElW8x-2I

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzwtJnVW8AAh59t?format=jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzwtJi_WQAAMnAS?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzwtJjAWoAAUNmG?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Eli]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzwtJnVW8AAh59t?format=jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzwtJi_WQAAMnAS?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzwtJjAWoAAUNmG?format=jpg&name=900x900

I know it's not the most important thing but are they testing with Michelin tyres?

[TypeR]

It's not the most important thing :D


But as there hasn't been any news in WRC for a very long time, then I would say it classofoes as Breaking News :D :D

[Eli]

It's not the most important thing :D


But as there hasn't been any news in WRC for a very long time, then I would say it classofoes as Breaking News :D :D
Skoda has all gone silent so this is the only hope for ‘27-‘28, and if Hyundai won’t be there we might get to see Toyota vs Lancia all over again…

[wyler]

very different from the one in the leaked photo...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Skoda has all gone silent so this is the only hope for ‘27-‘28, and if Hyundai won’t be there we might get to see Toyota vs Lancia all over again…

Mikkelsen is on the case, trying to persuade Skoda to continue and make a 27 Car.

[denkimi]

I don't think Mikkelsen has any say in whatever Skoda does.

[240RS]

lancia y rally2/2027

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wgmElW8x-2I

Would be very interested to know the identity of the test driver(s).

[TheFlyingTuga]

Would be very interested to know the identity of the test driver(s).

According to this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5JQhqj3Rso&list=WL&index=4&ab_channel=UgoRallye38

It was Bonato

[WRCStan]

According to this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5JQhqj3Rso&list=WL&index=4&ab_channel=UgoRallye38

It was Bonato

Also according to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YShOdZRFXsw

[Fast Eddie WRC]

lancia y rally2/2027



Videos all describe the Lancia as Rally2, not WRC27.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I don't think Mikkelsen has any say in whatever Skoda does.

As ERC and 2x WRC2 Champion with Skoda, his encouragement wont do any harm.

I would bet they'll continue as they've been very successful in selling rally cars and their rallying activity gives them a good profile.

[Andre Oliveira]

Impressive. 1 day and nothing on DirtFish. Ok, not Oliver at wheel to make 20 posts...

[Andre Oliveira]

I know it's not the most important thing but are they testing with Michelin tyres?

Hankook today

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lancia rumours getting stronger...

https://rallyjournal.com/big-news-lancia-is-returning-to-the-wrc-testing-already-in-full-swing/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Also from Rallye-Magazine:

Skoda plans to continue producing the petrol Fabia until at least 2031. The Czech company's successful Rally2 model is scheduled to be completely re-homologated by then – which, according to the regulations, is possible every four years.

[Maui J.]

This is probably the most exciting news in the WRC for the last 10 years. Not just the fact that's it's Lancia, but it's actually a new manufacturer joining the party. Lancia managed to keep this very quiet, so hopefully we will start seeing more surprises pop up before the 2027 championship kicks off.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzyCcKCXAAA8Ol5?format=jpg&name=medium

[WRCStan]

Impressive. 1 day and nothing on DirtFish.

Official launch tomorrow (Wednesday) according to a comment on YT.

[WRCStan]

This is probably the most exciting news in the WRC for the last 10 years. Not just the fact that's it's Lancia, but it's actually a new manufacturer joining the party. Lancia managed to keep this very quiet, so hopefully we will start seeing more surprises pop up before the 2027 championship kicks off.

It depends what they announce if you're hoping for a work's team in the mainclass. This is the wrong thread really for a Rally2 build, might just be as simple as shifting the sales from Citroen to Lancia.

[rallyfiend]

Mikkelsen is on the case, trying to persuade Skoda to continue and make a 27 Car.

He can’t even persuade Skoda to give him a drive, what on earth makes you think he can persuade them on their entire motorsport strategy…?!

[deephouse]

He can’t even persuade Skoda to give him a drive, what on earth makes you think he can persuade them on their entire motorsport strategy…?!

What if he doesn't want that anymore, and want to compete in the main class as 2027 is the ''best'' time to start from beginning. If he would do Rally2 campaign he could be bad and that would certainly kill his career entirely... But on the other side he could be sharp and just drive for mileage, testing, do various things for them, since he drove various Rally1/WRC cars for a long time. But I think they could be persuade if someone from Hyundai squad or even Toyota could step into their office. Maybe Seb and do full season from start.

[Eli]

Took them a while: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/lancia-rally2-car-expected-in-2026/

[Kenneth]

Via Xabi Nicolay

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzhwgltWgAATTV3?format=jpg&name=medium

So I still wonder what this was supposed to be, because it's completely different than the real Ypsilon Rally2. Is that some mule based on C3? The overall shape and shape of radiator intakes looks like C3.

Someone here said it's real photo, so I'll believe it's not photoshoped (althroug many things point to that). So is it really some kind of mule for 2027?

[pedro16]

So I still wonder what this was supposed to be, because it's completely different than the real Ypsilon Rally2. Is that some mule based on C3? The overall shape and shape of radiator intakes looks like C3.

Someone here said it's real photo, so I'll believe it's not photoshoped (althroug many things point to that). So is it really some kind of mule for 2027?

It was made with AI. The account who posted the image confirmed.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

He can’t even persuade Skoda to give him a drive, what on earth makes you think he can persuade them on their entire motorsport strategy…?!

I was merely referring this interview and his successful connection with Skoda and rally car development experience...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/mikkelsen-trying-to-convince-skoda-to-join-wrc-in-2027/#:~:text=Three%2Dtime%20World%20Rally%20winner,hig her%20vs%20lower'%20leaderboard%20challenge!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Dirtfish delay on covering the Lancia story was due to them being at Rally Paraguay...

https://youtu.be/sP-R8IJhQ8Y?si=4a8lXn-lK93r3gMo