WRC mainclass from 2027

[WRCStan]

It's not based on an available road car
And so what?

it's not on sale as a road car
And so what?

and cannot be eligible for rally championships
It is eligible for WR2C, a rally championship. You said you've seen it there.

You can call it a car as a broad term.
Oh right?

(All rhetorical)


you said it's a 100% a rally, as if a regularity rally and a speed rally are the same discipline.

Rally is rally; maybe you forget WRC is partly regularity rally in classification; time cards, controls and penalties are part of it. There's different ways to classify competitors in rally. You can have rallies where the prettiest car wins or where whoever takes photos of things along the route wins. You could have a Puma Rally1 in a regularity rally or an Ioniq in a speed rally; they both being road cars... in road rallies. Reminder that the context of ecoRally coming up in conversation was road relevance, or in my terms, 'consumer production car relevance'. No amount of mental gymnastics should be necessary.

The Alternative Energies Cup had other disciplines back in the day besides the rally 'class' that ecoRally Cup was born from. It was circuit racing and speed trials IIRC and they weren't all contested by the same cars and teams. So no, that does not mean they were all rally cars in AEC.

There used to be open cars with platforms built in for politicians to speak to crowds at rallies, back in the day in USA at least. Maybe they were called rally cars.


No, I won't check the regs.

Try it, you might learn something.

[WRCStan]

It looks like the best we can hope for is Toyota WRC27 Cars vs the existing Rally2 Cars.

Reckon promoter will back a tuner or two to beef up the entrants?

[focus206]

Try it, you might learn something.

Still going on with your ridiculous arguments? It has already been expressed, in a much clearer way than how you write, that many consider the presence of a valid related road car essential for a rally car. You don't agree? Too bad for you.

I don't care how many times you isolate words in a sentence and pedantically say that rally raid vehicles are rally cars. Speed rally is not rally raid and is not regularity rally. Different championships, different disciplines, different cars. At this point you're just wasting people's time, especially when you started the whole "fans who want to mantain a level of road relevance in rally cars shoudl go watch Eco Rally Cup instead" conversation, which has nothing to do with this topic and no rally fan would consider that seriously.

[WRCStan]

many consider the presence of a valid related road car essential for a rally car. You don't agree? Too bad for you.

Too bad for everybody if nobody ever disagreed. Also my opinion is that those points are very much related to this thread topic, we didn't get there cordially, but maybe can after some time to reset the tone.

[Steve Boyd]

Reckon promoter will back a tuner or two to beef up the entrants?If there is a promoter . . .
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/new-wrc-promoter-coming-as-fia-opens-tender/

[saco0o]

“The FIA World Rally Championship is at an exciting moment in its history. Millions of fans around the world are following the action, and new, younger audiences are driving its global growth"

"1.3 billion cumulative tv audience"

.........ohh then why the promoter is leaving ?ohh..... eeeeeeh..... no, its because.... because.... aaaaaaahnn..... ehhh

[wyler]

It looks like the best we can hope for is Toyota WRC27 Cars vs the existing Rally2 Cars.



i guess m-sport will do a new car, they cannot stay in the market with the decommissioned fiesta...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I have my own idea from what I've heard and read, but can anyone give their understanding of why they're NOT just making Rally2 (or Rally2+) Cars the top Class in 2027 ? By this I mean a car based on a road car shell as currently.

[wyler]

I have my own idea from what I've heard and read, but can anyone give their understanding of why they're NOT just making Rally2 (or Rally2+) Cars the top Class in 2027 ? By this I mean a car based on a road car shell as currently.

i guess for this "tuners" opening, so they don't need a shell, they can buid it themself.

[WRCStan]

I have my own idea from what I've heard and read, but can anyone give their understanding of why they're NOT just making Rally2 (or Rally2+) Cars the top Class in 2027 ? By this I mean a car based on a road car shell as currently.

Do you mean for the whole period or just for one year?

[deephouse]

Why there is still no announcements, Because FIA is too late. Everytime they do something it's too late. Those regs should be fully published years ago. And not throwing only some hints and then negotiate for a 8 months, and then again some hints. How would any team be able to made a good car, especially if that team isn't funded that well as Toyota. And again we hear that they are the only ones that actually started working on a new car. If Mikkelsen is claiming that he is convincing Skoda to join, that only means that they probably will not be here, because they would not wait so long. Probably we will se some new names (really big IF) in 2028 or beyond, and not in 2027 as it's suggested by officials. Right now the series is fragile it could collapse even before it could start well. I'm happy that regs will be somehow open again, but their timeline for decisions is harming this sport really hard. Why mechanics can completely rebuild the car in a few hours which is a hell of a job and those with ties can't decide anything with no deadline at all. All they do is talk for straight 8 hours during their work day. And why does it take 15 years to actually decide anything? I will never understood those offices jobs. No efficiency at all and when there is even that is completely useless.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Do you mean for the whole period or just for one year?

For the whole next period...

[saco0o]

I have my own idea from what I've heard and read, but can anyone give their understanding of why they're NOT just making Rally2 (or Rally2+) Cars the top Class in 2027 ? By this I mean a car based on a road car shell as currently.

if i'm understanding this correctly, the current R5s will be allowed to compete as the top class for the next 10 years while these models are "phased out" by the new wrc27 - so...theres that. "R5s are the new top class", in fact.

it is a sucessful formula, so FIA is kinda keeping that (since all components for the new cars are the same from current R5s), but adding more safety via the tube frame cars.
its going to take some years for the new machines to be MEGA present around europe - and the R5s will still be there anyway.
and they decided this set of rules also thiking about national and regional championships, so theres gotta be more than we know to it. like, did they talked to these national level entities and pro competitors? probably yes (i hope!)

so.... IN A WAY, R5s are the new class. i imagine the new wrc27 will eventually be stronger, for sure. but stuff like road position will still play a part, no? even if we have 40 R5s and 3 WRC27 Toyotas, i dont think Toyota will win every event, no way.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

if i'm understanding this correctly, the current R5s will be allowed to compete as the top class for the next 10 years while these models are "phased out" by the new wrc27 - so...theres that. "R5s are the new top class", in fact.

it is a sucessful formula, so FIA is kinda keeping that (since all components for the new cars are the same from current R5s), but adding more safety via the tube frame cars.
its going to take some years for the new machines to be MEGA present around europe - and the R5s will still be there anyway.
and they decided this set of rules also thiking about national and regional championships, so theres gotta be more than we know to it. like, did they talked to these national level entities and pro competitors? probably yes (i hope!)

so.... IN A WAY, R5s are the new class. i imagine the new wrc27 will eventually be stronger, for sure. but stuff like road position will still play a part, no? even if we have 40 R5s and 3 WRC27 Toyotas, i dont think Toyota will win every event, no way.

Yeah, I know all that and get it.

But I'm asking why they arent continuing with NEW Rally2 cars built as they are now, based on a road car shell ?

Only Toyota has built one recently (and that was easy for them as they had a rally-ready road car in the 4WD GR Yaris). But the likes of M-Sport Ford, Hyundai & Citroen havent built a new Rally2 car and are still hanging on with cars that are 5+ years old and some not even sold any more.

I assume they've spoken to these and other Manufacturer's and they said they cant build a new Rally2 Car with the road cars they now produce, as M-Sport have said with the Puma, because they're not viable for rallying ?

[saco0o]

Yeah, I know all that and get it.
But I'm asking why they arent continuing with NEW Rally2 cars built as they are now, based on a road car shell ?
(...)
I assume they've spoken to these and other Manufacturer's and they said they cant build a new Rally2 Car with the road cars they now produce, as M-Sport have said with the Puma, because they're not viable for rallying ?


yes, i'd go with something along these lines too mate. FIA gotta follow some EU guidelines, right? also cultural shift. im not from europe but from the stuff i read, manufacturers are little by little moving away from ICE Hatchbacks. the new bodyshells are all built with other specifications to acomotade hybrids and batteries - and I dont think manufacturers are completely giving up on autonomous driving too (more computers). and they are mostly SUVs.

so thats probably the reason, yes! (long term stuff too)...and we KNOW rally fans would HATE SUVS lol. even if they were "ICE".
and most are either Hybrid (it didnt worked) or EV (that would be the death of the sport for half of the audience, lets be honest)

plus the whole MORE SAFETY from the new tubeframes that FIA must implement.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Cheers. I'm arguing with that YouTube guy who is totally against the spaceframe car for WRC27 and wants to keep Rally2 cars as the top class.

I said if it was possible they would be, that's an easy answer to it, but it's not because Manufacturers cant use the shells of cars they sell nowadays as they're too big or tall.

[saco0o]

Cheers. I'm arguing with that YouTube guy who is totally against the spaceframe car for WRC27 and wants to keep Rally2 cars as the top class.

I said if it was possible they would be, that's an easy answer to it, but it's not because Manufacturers cant use the shells of cars they sell nowadays as they're too big or tall.

on facebook i saw the same discussions. im jus...i mean, we are all just guessing here, sure. but that seems a plausible argument: next gen of road cars are all suv hybrids or electric. 'do we want huge suvs rallying'?
tho there are crossovers, they are ok. but they are also all hybrids, eh? you are from britain, not sure if the car market is similar over there. here in south america new cars are ALL hybrid SUVs and electric Sedans. more and more are from BYD and that other chinese brand... "Great Wall something something" ? (cool name tbh)
the smaller 'new car' here is the Renegade lol

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's ironic that Toyota, the team with the last new Rally2 Car, are the first (and so far only) ones committed to a new WRC27 Car. Where would the WRC be without them and their rally-fan boss Mr Toyoda ?!

[OldF]

Funny that when they were negotiating which engine to use from 2022 onwards, M-Sport and Hyundai wanted to use a rally2 engine but Toyota wanted to continue with the current rally1 engine, global race engine. Now Toyota is the only one (so far) that has start developing a car with a rally2 engine.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-inside-line-on-wrcs-2022-tech-rules/
“DirtFish: Earlier this year, it was clear the manufacturers were divided over the way forward with the Internal Combustion Engine side of 2022. M-Sport and Hyundai favoured a move to a Rally2 base engine, while Toyota wanted to stick with the current Global Race Engine”:)

I don’t know but I interpret from the interview with Tom Fowler that FIA has developed specs for a “global” rally2 engine. Manufacturers build the engine with the same specs and if someone want to use a production engine they can present that to FIA.

https://rallyjournal.com/major-revelation-from-toyota-boss-core-principles-of-2027-regulations-already-agreed/

4.8.2025
“What I understand is there’s a specific chapter that tells you how to build an engine for the championship. If you want to commit, you follow that chapter – all the information is clearly written down,” Fowler explained.”

“There’s also an appendix that says if a manufacturer or tuner has a different requirement – for a production engine, electrification, or similar – they can present it to the FIA. The regulation could then be adapted to include more people. But as I understand it, no one has made that application, so no extra chapter has been written,” Fowler revealed.”

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Illustration of what a Dacia Sandero built to the WRC27 regulations could look like:

https://rallyjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2025/08/Dacia.jpg

And what will be underneath:

https://rallyjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2025/08/FIA-chassis-wrc27-1.jpg

https://rallyjournal.com/this-is-what-they-look-like-an-illustration-has-already-been-made-of-the-new-rally-world-championship-cars/

[wyler]

Illustration of what a Dacia Sandero built to the WRC27 regulations could look like:

https://rallyjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2025/08/Dacia.jpg



rumours about prodrive x renault '27 as for the dakar
(could be this dacia, an alpine 290, a renault5...)

[240RS]

BYD has revealed new engine designs and systems that may lead to radical changes in what energy will power cars in the near future. With WRC already geared towards new regulations for 2027, could we be headed for a rethink?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUKzqBS9Hec

[wyler]

BYD has revealed new engine designs and systems that may lead to radical changes in what energy will power cars in the near future. With WRC already geared towards new regulations for 2027, could we be headed for a rethink?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUKzqBS9Hec

fowler said the regulations have a section for the engine, but also that if someone wants to use alternatives, fia can add a chapter for it. No one did it at the moment, but it is possible for the future.

[WRCStan]

could we be headed for a rethink?

No.

Forgive me if I didn't see it for skimming, but what change is so radical?

[WRCStan]

No cost cap in the strict sense: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fia-pledges-wrc-investment-off-the-back-of-promoter-sale/

[Andre Oliveira]

Via Xabi Nicolay

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzhwgltWgAATTV3?format=jpg&name=medium

[saco0o]

via xabi nicolay

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/gzhwgltwgaattv3?format=jpg&name=medium

hohohohohohoh what!!!!?!??!?! *___*

[wyler]

Via Xabi Nicolay

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzhwgltWgAATTV3?format=jpg&name=medium

more info? where, driver...anything! : )

[saco0o]

someone on facebook suggesting the shadow under the cars is weird and theres lots of weird pixels around the "logo"
dammit i want to believe

edit: reddit user saying its Camilli driving it?

[wyler]

someone on facebook suggesting the shadow under the cars is weird and theres lots of weird pixels around the lancia logo
dammit i want to believe

looks like there's no logo as the badge looks removed...
can't say anything on the shadow, just that's a picture taken from the preview screen of a camera, not really high def...

[TypeR]

Look like rally3

[wyler]

Look like rally3

too wide wheel arch for a rally3 imho

[WRCStan]

Is the track wide enough? Going off the far B pillar visibility, shouldn't some more tubes be visible like it?

[Steve Boyd]

I can't see any sign of a roll cage in it. Edited image of a road car in my opinion.

[archie106]

No chance that is real, there hasn't been time since the regulations were released to design and build a car. Also why would they test a tarmac car with such a high ride height?

Also there would be no point building a Lancia 'test mule' as they could just use a C3 Rally2 for the initial development.

[Managarium]

Some media from Italy, said that it is a Rally2 Lancia, which will replace C3 Rally2 in 2026.

[wyler]

No chance that is real, there hasn't been time since the regulations were released to design and build a car. Also why would they test a tarmac car with such a high ride height?

Also there would be no point building a Lancia 'test mule' as they could just use a C3 Rally2 for the initial development.

in italy there was rumors already a month ago about crugnola testing a rally2 lancia.
also toyota is working on its 27 car so it is possible.
(doesn't mean that this is real though)

[Andre Oliveira]

Bonato and Crugnola tested the Rally2 mule already. The photo is real too.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So Lancia are making a Rally2 Car rather than a WRC27 Car under the new Regs ?

[wyler]

So Lancia are making a Rally2 Car rather than a WRC27 Car under the new Regs ?

i think they ll decide when the wrc27 regulation is officially defined...in the meanwhile they can use a rally2 mule for the mechanical part they ll use anyway

[WRCStan]

We know they were trying a Rally2 from last year already, but that rear wing is some addition. There was chat that they would launch the car at RIS 2026. Now we know that Rally Italia being moved location and slot adds more interest.

Lancia if you are reading, may I remind you of an old Italian saying; 'fai la cacca o alzati dal vasino'.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Adamo on a WRC podcast said he was healthy again... and on working again, 'never say never'. Maybe he might return with Lancia who he has a history with.

[wyler]

lancia y rally2/2027

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wgmElW8x-2I

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzwtJnVW8AAh59t?format=jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzwtJi_WQAAMnAS?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzwtJjAWoAAUNmG?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Eli]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzwtJnVW8AAh59t?format=jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzwtJi_WQAAMnAS?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzwtJjAWoAAUNmG?format=jpg&name=900x900

I know it's not the most important thing but are they testing with Michelin tyres?

[TypeR]

It's not the most important thing :D


But as there hasn't been any news in WRC for a very long time, then I would say it classofoes as Breaking News :D :D

[Eli]

It's not the most important thing :D


But as there hasn't been any news in WRC for a very long time, then I would say it classofoes as Breaking News :D :D
Skoda has all gone silent so this is the only hope for ‘27-‘28, and if Hyundai won’t be there we might get to see Toyota vs Lancia all over again…

[wyler]

very different from the one in the leaked photo...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Skoda has all gone silent so this is the only hope for ‘27-‘28, and if Hyundai won’t be there we might get to see Toyota vs Lancia all over again…

Mikkelsen is on the case, trying to persuade Skoda to continue and make a 27 Car.

[denkimi]

I don't think Mikkelsen has any say in whatever Skoda does.

[240RS]

lancia y rally2/2027

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wgmElW8x-2I

Would be very interested to know the identity of the test driver(s).

[TheFlyingTuga]

Would be very interested to know the identity of the test driver(s).

According to this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5JQhqj3Rso&list=WL&index=4&ab_channel=UgoRallye38

It was Bonato

[WRCStan]

According to this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5JQhqj3Rso&list=WL&index=4&ab_channel=UgoRallye38

It was Bonato

Also according to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YShOdZRFXsw

[Fast Eddie WRC]

lancia y rally2/2027



Videos all describe the Lancia as Rally2, not WRC27.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I don't think Mikkelsen has any say in whatever Skoda does.

As ERC and 2x WRC2 Champion with Skoda, his encouragement wont do any harm.

I would bet they'll continue as they've been very successful in selling rally cars and their rallying activity gives them a good profile.

[Andre Oliveira]

Impressive. 1 day and nothing on DirtFish. Ok, not Oliver at wheel to make 20 posts...

[Andre Oliveira]

I know it's not the most important thing but are they testing with Michelin tyres?

Hankook today

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lancia rumours getting stronger...

https://rallyjournal.com/big-news-lancia-is-returning-to-the-wrc-testing-already-in-full-swing/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Also from Rallye-Magazine:

Skoda plans to continue producing the petrol Fabia until at least 2031. The Czech company's successful Rally2 model is scheduled to be completely re-homologated by then – which, according to the regulations, is possible every four years.

[Maui J.]

This is probably the most exciting news in the WRC for the last 10 years. Not just the fact that's it's Lancia, but it's actually a new manufacturer joining the party. Lancia managed to keep this very quiet, so hopefully we will start seeing more surprises pop up before the 2027 championship kicks off.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzyCcKCXAAA8Ol5?format=jpg&name=medium

[WRCStan]

Impressive. 1 day and nothing on DirtFish.

Official launch tomorrow (Wednesday) according to a comment on YT.

[WRCStan]

This is probably the most exciting news in the WRC for the last 10 years. Not just the fact that's it's Lancia, but it's actually a new manufacturer joining the party. Lancia managed to keep this very quiet, so hopefully we will start seeing more surprises pop up before the 2027 championship kicks off.

It depends what they announce if you're hoping for a work's team in the mainclass. This is the wrong thread really for a Rally2 build, might just be as simple as shifting the sales from Citroen to Lancia.

[rallyfiend]

Mikkelsen is on the case, trying to persuade Skoda to continue and make a 27 Car.

He can’t even persuade Skoda to give him a drive, what on earth makes you think he can persuade them on their entire motorsport strategy…?!

[deephouse]

He can’t even persuade Skoda to give him a drive, what on earth makes you think he can persuade them on their entire motorsport strategy…?!

What if he doesn't want that anymore, and want to compete in the main class as 2027 is the ''best'' time to start from beginning. If he would do Rally2 campaign he could be bad and that would certainly kill his career entirely... But on the other side he could be sharp and just drive for mileage, testing, do various things for them, since he drove various Rally1/WRC cars for a long time. But I think they could be persuade if someone from Hyundai squad or even Toyota could step into their office. Maybe Seb and do full season from start.

[Eli]

Took them a while: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/lancia-rally2-car-expected-in-2026/

[Kenneth]

Via Xabi Nicolay

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GzhwgltWgAATTV3?format=jpg&name=medium

So I still wonder what this was supposed to be, because it's completely different than the real Ypsilon Rally2. Is that some mule based on C3? The overall shape and shape of radiator intakes looks like C3.

Someone here said it's real photo, so I'll believe it's not photoshoped (althroug many things point to that). So is it really some kind of mule for 2027?

[pedro16]

So I still wonder what this was supposed to be, because it's completely different than the real Ypsilon Rally2. Is that some mule based on C3? The overall shape and shape of radiator intakes looks like C3.

Someone here said it's real photo, so I'll believe it's not photoshoped (althroug many things point to that). So is it really some kind of mule for 2027?

It was made with AI. The account who posted the image confirmed.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

He can’t even persuade Skoda to give him a drive, what on earth makes you think he can persuade them on their entire motorsport strategy…?!

I was merely referring this interview and his successful connection with Skoda and rally car development experience...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/mikkelsen-trying-to-convince-skoda-to-join-wrc-in-2027/#:~:text=Three%2Dtime%20World%20Rally%20winner,hig her%20vs%20lower'%20leaderboard%20challenge!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Dirtfish delay on covering the Lancia story was due to them being at Rally Paraguay...

https://youtu.be/sP-R8IJhQ8Y?si=4a8lXn-lK93r3gMo

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lancia to replace Citroen pretty much confirmed as the works -supported team:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/lancia-set-to-replace-citroen-as-works-backed-wrc2-team/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR4on-ucxXYh8L9CZXDkm63uFIZLWikLGPs2MkJz_R3BbeVp3ABCu82m PV5F6A_aem_pwqyYi7aLfqtSo44kRg2hQ

[WRCStan]

Lancia topic is more 2026 WRC2 News and Rumours now.

[doubled1978]

Lancia to replace Citroen pretty much confirmed as the works -supported team:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/lancia-set-to-replace-citroen-as-works-backed-wrc2-team/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR4on-ucxXYh8L9CZXDkm63uFIZLWikLGPs2MkJz_R3BbeVp3ABCu82m PV5F6A_aem_pwqyYi7aLfqtSo44kRg2hQ

Let’s see if someone can drag a bit of sponsorship money out of Martini to do the job right!

[PLuto]

Lancia topic is more 2026 WRC2 News and Rumours now.

From beginning it is mainly about Rally2 car. But still there is question how 2027 will looks like in general...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So after they finally settled on a spaceframe chassis to replace Rally1/2/WRX Cars, a candidate for the FIA Presidency wants future rally cars to based on road cars...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fia-presidential-candidates-production-based-plan-for-rallying/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR6_thJDPLo03Udx6cV4NnG-_hzdUI8tCom4J0eXDY03n0-8KyR8Sb1djrXEDg_aem_Z6vrYFIZVHa_1hr11ewDIw

[WRCStan]

So after they finally settled on a spaceframe chassis to replace Rally1/2/WRX Cars, a candidate for the FIA Presidency wants future rally cars to based on road cars...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fia-presidential-candidates-production-based-plan-for-rallying/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR6_thJDPLo03Udx6cV4NnG-_hzdUI8tCom4J0eXDY03n0-8KyR8Sb1djrXEDg_aem_Z6vrYFIZVHa_1hr11ewDIw

He's talking about national rallying not WRC. Not worth a comparison or conflation.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

He's talking about national rallying not WRC. Not worth a comparison or conflation.

True and semingly for national rallies outside Europe.

Although even here (UK) many people at this level are still using old Subaru's and Evos. But apart from the recent GR Yaris no-one has a 4WD car homologated, so he has a point.

[WRCStan]

I'm not understanding what point he has, or the article, and regs of national rallying is not an FIA matter. Sounds like he's wanting to be saying the right things.

He wants to return to production-based cars at national level, even though they already are, but he needs to look at what he can do about power trains and construction of the cars. So which is it: hands on or hands off?

CODASUR and Africa already accommodate local cars outside of R1, R2, R5, if he wants to make a global regs set he'd probably face opposition in Europe.

Was his point that he wants manufacturers to build more cars like they used to and go through his homologation process? Good luck buddy!

And I'll add, on topic, that there's no real evidence that a series-production based shell chassis fitted with roll cage will be any cheaper than a tube chassis with cell once scaled to the potential market that's available.

IMO it's all noise and no signal.

[Sulland]

Have the final rules been sent to possible manufacturers yet?

If so have anyone signed up yet?

27 is not that far away....

[flat_right]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-considering-running-a-rally2-car-in-2027/

“Unfortunately, 2027 is a train that has left the station already,” said Abiteboul. “Coming in 2027 with a new car, according to the new regulation, no, that’s not going to happen. What can still happen is that we, like many other manufacturers, will have a Rally2 car.”

Does anyone know if M-sport is building a WRC27 car? If not, we could have a one team show. Nothing different from the current situation though...

[TypeR]

hyundai has been whining-wasting its own time away..
I'm quite sure M-Sport figures something out, it's their business..

[PLuto]

There are still no final regulations for 2027. So teams has issues to develop anything. Currently only one who is working on some prototypes (and still waiting for final regulations) is Toyota.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I expect that M-Sport will be able to build a 2027 Car. Rallying is their business and they'll need to replace the old Rally2 Fiesta with something.

[deephouse]

Hyundai would wine even if they immediately say Rally2 spec cars will be main category. They already decided what will they do, and we all know what this will be. They just want to find as many excuses not to continue.

I have a feeling (and had it before) that FIA is delaying their final 2027 regulations just to justify their intentions to adapt Rally2 spec for the main category, as it seems only Toyota is interested or at least is working on new car. Of course that will not be enough and then they will cancel 2027 wrc cars even before they will be made. And what will they be left then, other than Rally2 cars. I think they will not delay 2027 regulations into 2028, because no one will guarantee it will be there for 2027.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hyundai would wine even if they immediately say Rally2 spec cars will be main category. They already decided what will they do, and we all know what this will be. They just want to find as many excuses not to continue.

I have a feeling (and had it before) that FIA is delaying their final 2027 regulations just to justify their intentions to adapt Rally2 spec for the main category, as it seems only Toyota is interested or at least is working on new car. Of course that will not be enough and then they will cancel 2027 wrc cars even before they will be made. And what will they be left then, other than Rally2 cars. I think they will not delay 2027 regulations into 2028, because no one will guarantee it will be there for 2027.

This is possible, but its just not a long-term solution unless other new manufacturers can find a suitable car they are happy to use and promote.

Lancia have built a Rally2 and will use it as a promo tool with their rally heritage, even though their Ypsilon HF road car is an EV.

Who else can do this ? Even Ford have said the Puma is unsuitable as a Rally2 (plus their road car is also going EV)...

[denkimi]

Hyundai would wine even if they immediately say Rally2 spec cars will be main category. They already decided what will they do, and we all know what this will be. They just want to find as many excuses not to continue.
Just like they quit in 2025, 2024, 2023, 2022 en every year before if this forum was to believe.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

How the FIA plans to ensure a fair WRC27 v Rally2 battle

Responding to the concerns raised by Abiteboul regarding parity between the WRC27 and Rally2 cars, FIA technical director Xavier Mestelen Pinon reiterated that the two regulations will be able to work alongside each other with little differences between the two cars.

But the FIA is adamant that the WRC will not run a Balance of Performance system similar to that in World Endurance Championship.

“We are doing it well in WEC [World Endurance Championship] so it is easy to do it. In WEC we use power and weight, here we would use weight,” said Mestelen Pinon in a media round table.

“If we start to talk about Balance of Performance, it will kill our championship. We need [to] avoid that discussion. At the end the two regulations will allow each manufacturer to reach the same level of performance.

“We will speak about performance regarding downforce, weight to power ratio. We know there will be this kind of difference, but at the end we will refine the technical regulations so that both cars will be as close as possible this is our target.”

[WRCfi]

https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/mm-rallipomolta-murheellinen-uutispommi-mtv-n-lahetyksessa-emme-tule-olemaan-valmiina/9241474

Wilson says M-Sport will not have their WRC27 car ready by 2027.

"Whatever happens we will not be ready for 2027, beceause we haven't even started on the project."

[Fast Eddie WRC]

WRC2027 is in tatters before the Regs are even finalised and announced.

[deephouse]

More and more seems it will be like I said

[WRCStan]

WRC2027 is in tatters before the Regs are even finalised and announced.

2027 season is, but always was. The car reg has time.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Looks like WRC 2027 will be Rally2 Toyota vs Lancia (factory), vs any older cars for privateers (Fabia, Fiesta, C3, i20).

Hyundai and M-Sport (Ford) will be gone, having no suitable road car or being EV-only.

I dont see any point in Toyota continuing with their spaceframe car.

[WRCStan]

Fast Cyril, look beyond 2027 to when the new car is out on it's own. Rally2 is not the main class future else it would have been decided at several times they had this conversation over the years. Toyota can see this future.

M-Sport have no business case to build the new car for season 2027 manufacturers when the Fiesta can be made available to do the same job, no need to panic. When taking the Rally2s out of the class, manufacturers championship or of homologation, they then have customers. No panic.

Lancia didn't need a Rally4 but they absorbed that from Peugeot and Opel, so the Rally2 could just be the same operation to bring rally under one marque to strengthen it, so possible yet they have a WRC2027 too for 2027 - IF they are to take this game seriously for the long term, which is beginning to look more and more so.

CC at Dirtfish said Dacia is a rumour too, they've been happy with T1 ultimates and don't have a Rally2, so they're a possibility with Prodrive. Maybe one of the 'interersted tuners'.

Hyundai don't know what they're doing or what their brand is from one day to the next. Nothing to do with rally car regulations, EVs etc.

[saco0o]

2027 = loads of R5s vs Oli Solberg in the new toyota wr27 hehe
IM IN

[Kras]

Looks like WRC 2027 will be Rally2 Toyota vs Lancia (factory), vs any older cars for privateers (Fabia, Fiesta, C3, i20).

Hyundai and M-Sport (Ford) will be gone, having no suitable road car or being EV-only.

I dont see any point in Toyota continuing with their spaceframe car.

Where do you get this idea that Hyundai will have no suitable road car? They were testing a petrol 2026 i20 a few months ago

[deephouse]

Total disaster from FIA to not finalize this regs already (and should do it a year or two ago, not still discussing). If thing will not be decided soon and I mean in a few days, not as their usual timeline (months), they will no have other choice than postpone it to 2028 or go Rally2. I don't see a point running Toyota WRC27 against Rally2 cars, probably only Lancia in manufacture backed car (big if).

As it stands Hyundai will not even start making new car, and now M-Sport saying they will not be ready.

I'm not a fan for Rally2 car become the main category, but I'm not a fan also having no champiosnhip at all, as it seems FIA is doing everything to kill it. Right now I honestly have a wish, that they would sell the series to someone, who can and know how to run things and they could focus on their stupid meetings without WRC. Sorry, but I really start hating that stupid organization.

What I still hope, that out of nowhere we will have multiple teams and current (also some new) drivers at the start of 2027 WRC season, no matter what they will be running and driving, but I'm more and more sceptical that this will not be case.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fast Cyril, look beyond 2027 to when the new car is out on it's own. Rally2 is not the main class future else it would have been decided at several times they had this conversation over the years. Toyota can see this future.

M-Sport have no business case to build the new car for season 2027 manufacturers when the Fiesta can be made available to do the same job, no need to panic. When taking the Rally2s out of the class, manufacturers championship or of homologation, they then have customers. No panic.

Lancia didn't need a Rally4 but they absorbed that from Peugeot and Opel, so the Rally2 could just be the same operation to bring rally under one marque to strengthen it, so possible yet they have a WRC2027 too for 2027 - IF they are to take this game seriously for the long term, which is beginning to look more and more so.

CC at Dirtfish said Dacia is a rumour too, they've been happy with T1 ultimates and don't have a Rally2, so they're a possibility with Prodrive. Maybe one of the 'interersted tuners'.

Hyundai don't know what they're doing or what their brand is from one day to the next. Nothing to do with rally car regulations, EVs etc.

I've been following and agreeing with this narrative until now.

But this weeks news that even Hyundai and M-Sport aren't going to have a WRC27 Car, plus Lancia confirming a new Rally2 Car, the idea of the new spaceframe cars for 2027 just isnt happening.

[WRCStan]

There was a crossover from Groups 1-4 to NAB, Group A/kit car to WRC, WRC 2.0 to WRC 1.6/R via S2000 featuring teams to ensure the championship survives. It'll be like this. I don't follow the 'everything must be perfect and published 2 years in advance' theory. And if there aren't any new cars in 2027, or even after, at least the option was there. Nothing to gain from hitting the FIA rally dept here IMO.

Even John is still whacking them to cancel the new car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSzR-1MdqPU but unfortunately for a man with a YT channel and audience, he's still talking like this is sport and not a motorsport series. He doesn't consider what he might prevent and nobody seems to consider that there must be a reason they invest and proceed down this path, and the fallacy that all information is already public extends to posters in this forum.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I get what your saying and have been in agreement but for the foreseeable future there seems little chance of spaceframe cars happening.

As well as 2/3 of the existing WRC Manufacturers ruling out building one, there's also the complication of making a level playing field for both Cars which will be needed before anyone will commit to running them.

Without more than one Manufacturer (or Tuner) on board to make a spaceframe car, the future has to be Rally2 cars for the next homologation cycle.

[WRCStan]

M-Sport didn't rule it out, and they pushed for it. Toyota's is in the works. Promoter will ensure and insure it happens. It'll happen, there's no alternative. Just maybe not ubiquitous as soon as 2027 like we'd all like to see.

Doubt there's any complication in creating a level playing field, they're very similar and tbh, probably no demand to create fairness. Also don't lose sight of that they're not actively looking for Rally2 manufacturer entrants, just more cars in the 'mainclass'.

[denkimi]

Maybe we should embrace having just one manufacturer. Nothing levels the field more than everyone having the same car.

[flat_right]

Maybe we should embrace having just one manufacturer. Nothing levels the field more than everyone having the same car.

Well if all top dogs would get the same car, I wouldn't mind watching this one season like this.

[deephouse]

Toyota says that they need some challenge too to justify their programme, so if nobody will be there, they will not participate either. The only thing that this would work if some non-manufacturer would build car and all manufacturers would put their badge on it, but let's not get into that, as it's the worst idea.

[Andre Oliveira]

Why not use the travesti Mazda 2 to second team?

Team 1 with GR Yaris
Team 2 with Mazda 2

[deephouse]

Subaru actually are working on few new STi models, one of them will be hatchback. And what would the best way to promote it than WRC.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport didn't rule it out, and they pushed for it. Toyota's is in the works. Promoter will ensure and insure it happens. It'll happen, there's no alternative. Just maybe not ubiquitous as soon as 2027 like we'd all like to see.

Doubt there's any complication in creating a level playing field, they're very similar and tbh, probably no demand to create fairness. Also don't lose sight of that they're not actively looking for Rally2 manufacturer entrants, just more cars in the 'mainclass'.

M-Sport should be saying much more if they're fully onboard with WRC27. But MW saying they haven't even started and are concerned about the costs isnt a good sign.

On the level playing field, who will join unless they know what they'll be using will be competitive ? As the FIA are behind the new WRC27 Cars they wont want current Rally2 cars beating them...

[wyler]

the plan is to have an erc like series as top level for the very next years, then who knows. the reg for this transition is vaguely on. 27 will be mostly a semi private rally2 championship, then in some years wrc27 will appear when rally2 will have to be renewed. in the meantime, the new reg is open enough to fit any automotive industry change, be it real ev, hydrogen or other, also flexible enough to have some private team (tuners) to keep the thing alive till better times.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's a complete dog's breakfast at the moment. I dont know how anyone could commit to running a car in WRC beyond 2026 with so much uncertainty and confusion.

[AndersX]

Entire car industry is lost with rushed EV investments, that still are too little compare to State subsidized China EV battery manuf rapid expansion. Traditional car manufacturers might be trapped in the corner now. EVs do not work for motorsport, but ICE cars are fading out - what to do? In the moments like this you need clear policy, support, vision of the FIA. But i do not see it and I am in the doubt that MBS is visionary enough to have a brave plan. We are clearly heading to one big fat Reset of the Road Rally sport for coming 2-5 years. But, look from the bright side - if the bunch of privateers would go nuts in 2027 and 2028, that would be a proper spectacle. 😀

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Developing a brand new car to compete under the World Rally Championship’s new 2027 technical regulations remains the priority for M-Sport , rather than upgrading its Rally2 car.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/m-sport-prefers-new-wrc-car-build-over-upgraded-rally2-option-for-2027/10769883/

[1988senna]

Any reliable sources now mention that Skoda, Lancia, MSport,Hyundai will confirm to join 2027 group one??

[WRCStan]

Developing a brand new car to compete under the World Rally Championship’s new 2027 technical regulations remains the priority for M-Sport , rather than upgrading its Rally2 car.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/m-sport-prefers-new-wrc-car-build-over-upgraded-rally2-option-for-2027/10769883/

"“Why would we waste a year trying to up spec our Rally2 car and then do a new car? It is only Toyota there for the first half of the year"

Ring the rumour bell, what's the context here?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

"“Why would we waste a year trying to up spec our Rally2 car and then do a new car? It is only Toyota there for the first half of the year"

Ring the rumour bell, what's the context here?

Is he suggesting M-Sport wont have their car ready until mid-2027, as they wont start on it until the new Regs are signed off ?

[PLuto]

Any reliable sources now mention that Skoda, Lancia, MSport,Hyundai will confirm to join 2027 group one??

Only one currently developing something like Rally1 car is Toyota. Despite regulations are not finalised yet. Other mentioned manufacturers are not developing car according to the new regulations. And they are also not so much interested in Rally2 with bigger aero and restrictor...