[WRC] Monza Rally 2020

[KKS]

idiots

[EstWRC]

cancelled

[Portimao]

WRC became such bullshit for sissies

[mknight]

Lappi is going to be so pissed. He could have won the rally on this single stage.

[er88]

Fuck sake

[HaCo]

I'm getting feeling that they piss their pants and cancel the stage

Canceled! :(

[Lead]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, please nooooooooooooooooo

[KKS]

"Call for plows!!! it SNOW on SS12 or we cancel all rally!" somewhere at MonzaRally HQ
Idiots indeed

[Sulland]

No, they just cancel it. Too bad, really.
could organizers done this differently?

[Rallyper]

Told ya.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Scared cars would get stuck in bad snow ?

[the sniper]

What a joke...

[Tauri_J]

So how many kms do we run after all? 150

WRC has become a joke

[er88]

Lappi has been robbed by his own amateur team and now the organisers

[EstWRC]

all playing into Ogiers hands ONCE AGAIN

UNBELIEVABLE

i hate this, lol

[Lead]

This is true rally! Thats why we all love it! C :mad:omon....

[Rally Hokkaido]

Very disappointed....

[Essaj]

Also if Tänak was carrying issues he is pretty much safed now...

[SubaruNorway]

Did they send a FWD zero car or something in there?

[masa90]

Ok. This is looking really bad for the sport. They cancel the stage because it is snowing??? Why in the hell did they not cancel ss11 then?

[Mirek]

No, they just cancel it. Too bad, really.
could organizers done this differently?

We don't know what is going on behind the scene. Who is lobbying for what, what the teams push for, what is the FIA stance. It's easy to blame the organizers but it may be more complicated.

Also... we used to laugh on Monte Carlo organization for their usual chaos but it's good to see that organizing similar event may be much more difficult than we think.

[denkimi]

Why do they even give the drivers snow tyres if they are going to cancel snowy stages anyway?

This is bullshit.

[mknight]

Lappi has been robbed by his own amateur team and now the organisers

Yes, organizers 3 times even.

1. Yesterday he didn't use snow tires on one of the afternoon stages to save them ... and right after that they allowed 2 more
2. 10s penalty
3. SS12 cancel

+ his team on SS11.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

UPDATE: Rally organisers have cancelled SS12 - Costa Valle Imagna 2 - on safety grounds due to severe weather conditions.

[mknight]

We don't know what is going on behind the scene. Who is lobbying for what, what the teams push for, what is the FIA stance. It's easy to blame the organizers but it may be more complicated.

It maybe as easy as the rescue vehicles not having tires/chains to come in case someone gets injured. Not a weather to fly rescue helis in. (due to icing, not visibility)

Also if it really got high with snow (10+ cm) you could even risk cars not making it up the hill on wet tires.

[tpt010]

This is a joke. Michelin told well before rally, that they will provide winter tyres as conditions can be snowy. Recce was done on snow conditions. All week everyone has been talking only about conditions and that there can be snow on stages. OK, then comes rally and, surprise surprise, there is snow. And what happens, stage needs to be cancelled. Sorry, but I don't get the point of WRC anymore.

[ferrial]

Sad for Elfyn

[Mirek]

Yes, organizers 3 times even.

1. Yesterday he didn't use snow tires on one of the afternoon stages to save them ... and right after that they allowed 2 more
2. 10s penalty
3. SS12 cancel

+ his team on SS11.

Sir, FIA stewards are not organizers.

[Alex009]

I said it already. This sport, Wrc and Fia are fucking joke nowadays.

[Mirek]

It maybe as easy as the rescue vehicles not having tires/chains to come in case someone gets injured. Not a weather to fly rescue helis in. (due to icing, not visibility)

Yes, that is the most likely reason for cancelation. Not the WRC tyres but the inability to reach them with ambulance in case they crash hard. It's not the first time we would have stage canceled exactly for that. And it happened also on rallies without snow.

[ferrial]

It maybe as easy as the rescue vehicles not having tires/chains to come in case someone gets injured. Not a weather to fly rescue helis in. (due to icing, not visibility)

Also if it really got high with snow (10+ cm) you could even risk cars not making it up the hill on wet tires.

It's winter, rescue vehicles should have the correct tires/chains. How is organising this rally different from organising Monte?

[mknight]

I said it already. This sport, Wrc and Fia are fucking joke nowadays.

I said it already, that you are one line grumpy idiot.

At this point you know pretty nothing on why it was cancelled. All we know is that in last 2 stages we got 3 WRC crashes, 1 of which could have ended really bad.

Cancelling stages due to weather being too bad has been done forever (remember Portugal 1998 or so?). Corsica multiple times as well in last 20 years.
This is not an off-road survival competition.

[Mirek]

It's winter, rescue vehicles should have the correct tires/chains. How is organising this rally different from organising Monte?

Monte has been held for over a century. Monza organizers for sure never organized a snow event. Sad but when FIA selected Monza as a WRC round they had to consider the risk connected with that.

[meh]

Yes, that is the most likely reason for cancelation. Not the WRC tyres but the inability to reach them with ambulance in case they crash hard. It's not the first time we would have stage canceled exactly for that. And it happened also on rallies without snow.

Yes, gentelmens, it's easy to throw comments to forum with hot head, but let's get the actual argumentation first.

Of course it does not change anything for Elfyn anymore and it's not favoring Lappi at all.

[mknight]

It's winter, rescue vehicles should have the correct tires/chains. How is organising this rally different from organising Monte?

This is start of December in Italy, mostly below 800 meters. Not normal weather there at all, I lived in that area for some time and talked to locals today.
Monte is higher up in mountains and has been run like that for 50 years or so.

[denkimi]

Monte has been held for over a century. Monza organizers for sure never organized a snow event. Sad but when FIA selected Monza as a WRC round they had to consider the risk connected with that.
What would they do if someone living there got a heart attack? Wait till spring to come and get them?

The rescue vehicles should have the best tyres of them all here.

[EstWRC]

lol some ridiculous statements from some users here

but ill keep reading and eating my popcorn

[SubaruNorway]

This is start of December in Italy, mostly below 800 meters. Not normal weather there at all, I lived in that area for some time and talked to locals today.
Monte is higher up in mountains and has been run like that for 50 years or so.

Looking at the webcam in the middle of SS12 at about 1200m they seem to get snow every year
https://www.windy.com/nb/-Nettkamera/Switzerland/Grisons/Valchava/Lombardy-Italy/webcams/1438178438?deg0,45.787,7.866,8

[tpt010]

Exactly. Nothing unusual to have snow there.

[EstWRC]

if there is one thing i could change in the world today

i would have cancelled SS11 instead :)

[mknight]

Looking at the webcam in the middle of SS12 they seem to get snow every year
https://www.windy.com/nb/-Nettkamera/Switzerland/Grisons/Valchava/Lombardy-Italy/webcams/1438178438?deg0,45.787,7.866,8

- that camera is right next to the highest point of the rally (1270 m, highest point is just shy of 1350), whole 2 previous SS are a lot lower
- 5.12.
- normal approach for everyone is summer tires and chains
- "snow" is one thing, snow staying on the road in thick layer is something else

It was mentioned before that this is first time in 15 years they got snow down in Monza at all.

Anyway we still don't know why it was cancelled.

[AnttiL]

I think we had one stage canceled in Australia 2017 because of heavy rain which would have prevented ambulances getting on/off the scene. It's not just the fact that there's snow, it's the wet snow and heavy snowfall which makes the conditions difficult for most vehicles. Better be safe than sorry.

As for canceling SS10 after road being blocked and you saying rallying is now ridiculous...in the past decades the drivers who had to stop or slow down for a crashed car on the road never got any time refunds, so I think it's more fair this way. And like someone guessed, they didn't have the option to wait for a tow truck get Veiby out and restart the stage because TV stage was next.

Also someone said we're getting red flags and canceled stages because the rally is organized by a motor circuit, just go back and see we've had red flags and canceled stages before...remember when Lappi's car burned in Mexico? Yes, the next stage was canceled because the only firetruck from the next stage was putting out the fire. Remember in Mexico 2019 when Lappi went half off the road? Red flag. Monte Carlo 2017 Sunday or 2019 Friday? Catalunya 2018? Circuit racing organizers? Also remember that the same FIA officials are organizing every event, it's not the locals who make the decisions. Finally, when Veiby pressed the SOS button in the car, that triggered the red flag automatically.

[KKS]

Yes, that is the most likely reason for cancelation. Not the WRC tyres but the inability to reach them with ambulance in case they crash hard. It's not the first time we would have stage canceled exactly for that. And it happened also on rallies without snow.
No fly weather be even on SS10 and SS11. So why they wouldn't canceled on a safety ground?
Cuz cancellation of SS12 it's not a safety reasons I guess

[Fast Eddie WRC]

@EsapekkaLappi
Bugger, we would have good snow tires on board !
#ACIRallyMonza #WRC #L4PPI


M-Sport
@MSportLtd
· 23m
Information source SS12 cancelled #WRC #MSPORTERS

[Tauri_J]

If rallies would be over 500km, we wouldnt mind couple of stage cancellations.

[Mirek]

No fly weather be even on SS10 and SS11. So why they wouldn't canceled on a safety ground?
Cuz cancellation of SS12 it's not a safety reasons I guess

No-fly weather is normal thing for quarter of WRC stages.

[atsiotras79]

Acropolis 2015 ERC last day 2nd loop was also cancelled for safety reasons due to heavy rainfall...
When the safety vehicles cannot approach fast, there is no point to risk lives for sport!

If your kid had an exit there and the ambulance cannot reach the spot in time then you would say why the f...k you did not cancel the damn stage... enough of that please...

[AnttiL]

Gutted for Elfyn really. Had he made it a couple of more kilometres more, it would have been safe. Need to check Tänak's onboard from the corner to see how he managed that

[masa90]

Well, if the reason is rescuevehicles cant make it, then it is understandable. But still big shame that one proper stage with challenging conditions is cancelled. If the rally was long it wouldnt make such a difference, but here it really is a big hit.

[tpt010]

I totally agree that conditions are not nice. But this is, or should be, WRC. And I don't get that cancellation, if it was due snow, since everyone has known at least a week ago that there is a big big possibility for this kind of conditions. Safety is also important, but if the safety is the only point then we should consider cancelling this sport. Maybe there is something else on background, and probably there is, but this we will never find out.

[AnttiL]

If rallies would be over 500km, we wouldnt mind couple of stage cancellations.

Yeah, and especially these short COVID-editions suffer exceptionally much from canceled stages.

BTW this is also one reason not to have marathon stages anymore. When you have to cancel one long stage (because of situation like this or stupid spectators etc), it's a bigger percentage of the whole rally

[mknight]

I totally agree that conditions are not nice. But this is, or should be, WRC. And I don't get that cancellation, if it was due snow, since everyone has known at least a week ago that there is a big big possibility for this kind of conditions. Safety is also important, but if the safety is the only point then we should consider cancelling this sport. Maybe there is something else on background, and probably there is, but this we will never find out.

COVID-19, maybe you heard about it?

I am quite sure the 3 WRC crashes in two stages before played a role as well.

This of Greensmith was posted before and as said before if the armco got trough....
https://www.facebook.com/Rallysupport/videos/410291346683372/

[the sniper]

If rallies would be over 500km, we wouldnt mind couple of stage cancellations.

THIS! Or even 400km. The ever decreasing length of rallies is a disaster when combined with the ever increasing risk of stage cancelations. Even 300km events are too short to lose stages... It's embarrassing, but luckily the WRC bubble lost perspective on shame years ago.

EDIT: Caveat to that being, I appreciate the Covid chaos factor this year. But it's not just this year and things will probably only get worse, because much of the organisational side of rallying loves to take the easy option nowadays.

[AnttiL]

THIS! Or even 400km. The ever decreasing length of rallies is a disaster when combined with the ever increasing risk of stage cancelations. Even 300km events are too short to lose stages... It's embarrassing, but luckily the WRC bubble lost perspective on shame years ago.

Maybe we should get some statistics on how many stages were cancelled every year :) I don't think it has increased that much in the latest years

[Mirek]

What would they do if someone living there got a heart attack? Wait till spring to come and get them?

The rescue vehicles should have the best tyres of them all here.

The rescue crews first and formost are not part of the rally organization, FIA or Italian ASN. If they say they can't go, for you it simply means they can't. What do you want to do with that? I can tell you that. Nothing.

[jonkka]

Maybe we should get some statistics on how many stages were cancelled every year :) I don't think it has increased that much in the latest years

Number or length of those stages?

[Essaj]

Btw, Scandola just set new fastest time on SS11 by 12.2 secs :D

[Franky]

As all the talk is about cancelations, then we are 12,58km away from giving out half the points.

[mknight]

Btw, Scandola just set new fastest time on SS11 by 12.2 secs :D

If it got 1 deg warmer then combined with rain and cars cleaning the road it's possible he had no snow at all.

[AnttiL]

Number or length of those stages?

- Number of all stages canceled per year
- Percentage of canceled stages per all stages run that year

(however I think red flagged stages with notional times for rest of the cars don't count as cancelled in your books)

[the sniper]

Maybe we should get some statistics on how many stages were cancelled every year :) I don't think it has increased that much in the latest years

As you know, there used to be far more stages, so inevitable there were more stages that could be cancelled. Though as a percentage of an event's SS length, less would have been lost in the past. So it'd be interesting to know on percentage terms.

What I mean by increasing risk of cancellations, is that with live coverage, more information from the stages (organisational and spectator via social media), plus SOS from cars, combined with modern liability issues, it's never been easier to justify cancelling stages. It's a slippery slope though.

[Jakem]

wrc is becoming more and more joke. In Sweden we cancel stages because there is NO snow and in Monza because there IS snow(and everybody knew it)

[jonkka]

- Number of all stages canceled per year
- Percentage of canceled stages per all stages run that year

(however I think red flagged stages with notional times for rest of the cars don't count as cancelled in your books)

Well, raw data as follows, I can't check it just now:

Kausi count(*) stages worth of sum(ek.Pituus) kilometers
1973 37 stages worth of 358.42 kilometers
1974 11 stages worth of 36.53 kilometers
1975 8 stages worth of 107.40 kilometers
1976 8 stages worth of 33.30 kilometers
1977 15 stages worth of 241.27 kilometers
1978 9 stages worth of 157.20 kilometers
1979 25 stages worth of 208.60 kilometers
1980 11 stages worth of 101.52 kilometers
1981 7 stages worth of 70.10 kilometers
1982 13 stages worth of 126.73 kilometers
1983 13 stages worth of 142.21 kilometers
1984 8 stages worth of 134.00 kilometers
1985 10 stages worth of 115.43 kilometers
1986 22 stages worth of 78.84 kilometers
1987 13 stages worth of 58.05 kilometers
1988 8 stages worth of 89.02 kilometers
1989 1 stages worth of 16.80 kilometers
1990 5 stages worth of 89.32 kilometers
1991 7 stages worth of 89.01 kilometers
1992 13 stages worth of 315.69 kilometers
1993 2 stages worth of 14.08 kilometers
1994 2 stages worth of 0.00 kilometers
1995 5 stages worth of 77.78 kilometers
1996 8 stages worth of 410.67 kilometers
1997 5 stages worth of 34.87 kilometers
1998 4 stages worth of 71.09 kilometers
1999 6 stages worth of 143.40 kilometers
2000 5 stages worth of 103.35 kilometers
2001 11 stages worth of 326.35 kilometers
2002 11 stages worth of 297.14 kilometers
2003 4 stages worth of 89.22 kilometers
2004 4 stages worth of 110.67 kilometers
2005 4 stages worth of 79.42 kilometers
2006 6 stages worth of 114.36 kilometers
2007 8 stages worth of 140.20 kilometers
2008 8 stages worth of 93.86 kilometers
2009 6 stages worth of 92.14 kilometers
2010 5 stages worth of 94.69 kilometers
2011 6 stages worth of 73.48 kilometers
2012 6 stages worth of 102.92 kilometers
2013 3 stages worth of 83.57 kilometers
2014 5 stages worth of 76.69 kilometers
2015 5 stages worth of 152.54 kilometers
2016 9 stages worth of 104.73 kilometers
2017 8 stages worth of 170.25 kilometers
2018 1 stages worth of 14.12 kilometers
2019 7 stages worth of 90.04 kilometers
2020 7 stages worth of 141.67 kilometers

EDIT: Quickly verified last two seasons and it checks out...

[Rallyper]

It maybe as easy as the rescue vehicles not having tires/chains to come in case someone gets injured. Not a weather to fly rescue helis in. (due to icing, not visibility)

Also if it really got high with snow (10+ cm) you could even risk cars not making it up the hill on wet tires.

Better drive RMC in the summer then...

Everyone loves Col de Turini with snow, as far as I know.

[mknight]

Pretty much nothing has been normal in 2020 (Mexico stages cancelled due to COVID, this "emergency" rally set up in 3 months and taking place pretty much just a few days after lifted curfew in Lombardy). On top of that you got least snow in 20+ years.

If you look at years until then there is no clear trend imo. Though off course as percentage of total kms it maybe increases a bit.

What definitely changed is that now with ALLlive and all people at stages having a mobile phone you get many more immediately complaining. Not many did that if all you could do from home was watch numbers on a pc screen.

[seb_sh]

I think it's too easy to stay at home and type something on your keyboard without thinking. The organisers' job is hard with all the requirements for safety and TV, not to mention the context this year. In 2020 you need to put safety first and think of the whole rally. You cannot afford someone (maybe from lower categories) going off and having serious problems. WRC round are shorter than ever and guess what they're not going to get any longer, enjoy what you have.

[seb_sh]

What definitely changed is that now with ALLlive and a all people at stages having a mobile phone you get many more immediatelly complaining. Not many did that if all you could do from home was watch numbers on a pc screen.

Exactly this, an unrealistic expectation, i think we are all lucky to be able to see this all happening live, 25 years ago we'd just read the result in the newspaper...

[PLuto]

Yeah, and especially these short COVID-editions suffer exceptionally much from canceled stages.

BTW this is also one reason not to have marathon stages anymore. When you have to cancel one long stage (because of situation like this or stupid spectators etc), it's a bigger percentage of the whole rally

Marathon stages are not problem (this cancelled stage had only 22 kms, so nothing special). Problem is that total mileage of rallies is lower and lower and instead of rally it is going closer to rallysprints...

[m-ast]

So high numbers will only have run today one stage (11) if it ends ok, at the moment I think it's running, plus the monza final stage, I think there won't be many happy italian competitors with the situation at all today

[the sniper]

WRC round are shorter than ever and guess what they're not going to get any longer, enjoy what you have.

That's the problem and you're probably right, suits them for events to get ever shorter, though nobody has to enjoy that fact. Requiring events to be at least 350km, preferably all around 400km, is hardly a massive leap and would provide for at least some contingency/legitimacy.

I'm not offending them by going as far as to insult the precious cloverleaf format... :D

[Rallyper]

Well, raw data as follows, I can't check it just now:

Kausi count(*) stages worth of sum(ek.Pituus) kilometers
1973 37 stages worth of 358.42 kilometers
1974 11 stages worth of 36.53 kilometers
1975 8 stages worth of 107.40 kilometers
1976 8 stages worth of 33.30 kilometers
1977 15 stages worth of 241.27 kilometers
1978 9 stages worth of 157.20 kilometers
1979 25 stages worth of 208.60 kilometers
1980 11 stages worth of 101.52 kilometers
1981 7 stages worth of 70.10 kilometers
1982 13 stages worth of 126.73 kilometers
1983 13 stages worth of 142.21 kilometers
1984 8 stages worth of 134.00 kilometers
1985 10 stages worth of 115.43 kilometers
1986 22 stages worth of 78.84 kilometers
1987 13 stages worth of 58.05 kilometers
1988 8 stages worth of 89.02 kilometers
1989 1 stages worth of 16.80 kilometers
1990 5 stages worth of 89.32 kilometers
1991 7 stages worth of 89.01 kilometers
1992 13 stages worth of 315.69 kilometers
1993 2 stages worth of 14.08 kilometers
1994 2 stages worth of 0.00 kilometers
1995 5 stages worth of 77.78 kilometers
1996 8 stages worth of 410.67 kilometers
1997 5 stages worth of 34.87 kilometers
1998 4 stages worth of 71.09 kilometers
1999 6 stages worth of 143.40 kilometers
2000 5 stages worth of 103.35 kilometers
2001 11 stages worth of 326.35 kilometers
2002 11 stages worth of 297.14 kilometers
2003 4 stages worth of 89.22 kilometers
2004 4 stages worth of 110.67 kilometers
2005 4 stages worth of 79.42 kilometers
2006 6 stages worth of 114.36 kilometers
2007 8 stages worth of 140.20 kilometers
2008 8 stages worth of 93.86 kilometers
2009 6 stages worth of 92.14 kilometers
2010 5 stages worth of 94.69 kilometers
2011 6 stages worth of 73.48 kilometers
2012 6 stages worth of 102.92 kilometers
2013 3 stages worth of 83.57 kilometers
2014 5 stages worth of 76.69 kilometers
2015 5 stages worth of 152.54 kilometers
2016 9 stages worth of 104.73 kilometers
2017 8 stages worth of 170.25 kilometers
2018 1 stages worth of 14.12 kilometers
2019 7 stages worth of 90.04 kilometers
2020 7 stages worth of 141.67 kilometers

EDIT: Quickly verified last two seasons and it checks out...

However as percent of total stages I guess 2020 will be outstanding. Just guessing though...

[jonkka]

However as percent of total stages I guess 2020 will be outstanding. Just guessing though...

Yeah, I could add percentage there but just now I'd rather watch snooker semifinals. 2020 will get approx half of the stage mileage that seasons in the recent years have accumulated (http://www.juwra.com/statistics_timeseries_stages.html).

[mknight]

Well tbh I'd say Evans drove a bit risky on that corner where he went off.

He drove "racing line" braking on left and going for apex, but braking on left meant braking on snow. If he stuck to the right side without snow he would make it.
Off course extremely easy to say afterwards.

Also waiting to look at Tanaks onboard before that.

EDIT: Btw. Evans knew that Lappi behind him had 3 snow tires in car, so he for sure was expecting he will lose that position and wanted to fight to keep up with Tanak.

[Eli]

I think the biggest problem with this situation is the lack of transparency, we have no idea what's going on behind the scenes, no one seems to bother telling us the reason for the cancellation, the only thing us as fans can do is speculate and try and evaluate the situation just from the videos and pictures we've seen. If AllLive wasn't so much far up their own asses maybe we would've gotten some answers, but when a stage is red flagged and they just immediately turn themselves off it tells you a lot about the way this sport is being handled. Yes I'm aware these are tricky conditions and that these are unusual times and they probably thought (again only speculation) that it wouldn't be possible to help during a scene of an accident, you can see how hard it was for them just to move Veiby's car earlier, I'm guessing they didn't want to take another risk.

[T16]

The way he's just come over in that interview makes me wish he'd won it even more.
Chin up chap. You've made everyone sit up this year - onto 2021.

[mknight]

I think the biggest problem with this situation is the lack of transparency, we have no idea what's going on behind the scenes, no one seems to bother telling us the reason for the cancellation, the only thing us as fans can do is speculate and try and evaluate the situation just from the videos and pictures we've seen. If AllLive wasn't so much far up their own asses maybe we would've gotten some answers, but when a stage is red flagged and they just immediately turn themselves off ...

I am not sure you can expect more transparency from FIA/organizers, they are not run like a public affairs office.

On the other hand I totally agree that "allive" has way too much "tv mentality" of a scripted show. When something happens they should just keep working (from studio, stage end, w/e). Sure they will often have little info, but the constant turning off is really irritating.

They have their "tv stages" now every 3-4 stages, but they could still run non-stop between tbh.

[T16]

Hoping we see footage of Evans, at the airport, getting a phone call, on Sunday afternoon.

[mknight]

Hoping we see footage of Evans, at the airport, getting a phone call, on Sunday afternoon.

On Sunday he will be driving the PS most likely.

[jonkka]

On Sunday he will be driving the PS most likely.

He should definitely do that... Imagine if he didn't and Ogier slips up on the PS...

[T16]

On Sunday he will be driving the PS most likely.

You know what I mean! :)

[polomayu]

https://twitter.com/inforallyes/status/1335220719907713027?s=20

Greensmith

[KKS]

I think it's too easy to stay at home and type something on your keyboard without thinking. The organisers' job is hard with all the requirements for safety and TV, not to mention the context this year. In 2020 you need to put safety first and think of the whole rally. You cannot afford someone (maybe from lower categories) going off and having serious problems. WRC round are shorter than ever and guess what they're not going to get any longer, enjoy what you have.
If rallying so dangerous we should ban it as sport and back to safe chess or something

[mknight]

If rallying so dangerous we should ban it as sport and back to safe chess or something

"We" did that in 1986 if you remember.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eoempg2WEAIxYQG?format=jpg&name=medium

[the sniper]

Did the conditions get much, much better on SS11 later on? Scandola fastest overall by a long way! Various other interesting times... Ruairi Bell in a Fiesta Rally4 14th fastest overall, less than 30s off Ogier's time. :D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

:( :( :(

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EofLNauW4AAdaiV?format=jpg&name=large

Evans
Championship chances are pretty slim now & I'm sorry for @TGR_WRC as we've dented their title hopes as well. We knew about a surface change under the snow but didnt anticipate such a big change in grip levels. We hope to be back tomorrow and keep doing our best until the end.

[mknight]

Did the conditions get much, much better on SS11 later on? Scandola fastest overall by a long way! Various other interesting times... Ruairi Bell in a Fiesta Rally4 14th fastest overall, less than 30s off Ogier's time. :D

Yes, snow melted.

(SS11 is much lower than SS12 top)

[the sniper]

Is SS13 live now? Looks like those of us relying on BT Sport in the UK aren't getting it...

[PLuto]

Is SS13 live now? Looks like those of us relying on BT Sport in the UK aren't getting it...

Yes

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Is SS13 live now? Looks like those of us relying on BT Sport in the UK aren't getting it...

Red Button or https://www.bt.com/sport/watch/live-now/bt-sport-extra-3

[jonkka]

Now that Robertson won snooker semi-final, I had time to revisit this and do some revisions. Firstly, it now includes both cancelled stage as well as stages with nominal times. That changed little but for accuracy it's important. In addition, final column is added to give proportion of cancelled stage lengths per total rally lengths. 2020 indeed seems to have highest ratio with 8,3%, after 1996 that had 7,1%. On average, 2,3% of stage kilometers are cancelled annually. Bear in mind that pre-1979 years do lack plenty of stage data.

season cancelled stages cancelled stage length total stage length proportion of cancelled
1973: 37 stages 358,42 km's 6484,25 km's 5,5 %
1974: 11 stages 36,53 km's 1863,19 km's 2,0 %
1975: 8 stages 107,4 km's 4888,8 km's 2,2 %
1976: 9 stages 33,3 km's 3771,5 km's 0,9 %
1977: 15 stages 241,27 km's 6659,92 km's 3,6 %
1978: 11 stages 180,54 km's 6166,56 km's 2,9 %
1979: 25 stages 208,6 km's 7649,79 km's 2,7 %
1980: 12 stages 123,52 km's 8399,73 km's 1,5 %
1981: 7 stages 70,1 km's 11396,01 km's 0,6 %
1982: 14 stages 138,16 km's 8000 km's 1,7 %
1983: 13 stages 142,21 km's 8799,16 km's 1,6 %
1984: 8 stages 134 km's 8172,71 km's 1,6 %
1985: 10 stages 115,43 km's 8212,06 km's 1,4 %
1986: 22 stages 78,84 km's 6722,67 km's 1,2 %
1987: 13 stages 58,05 km's 6433,92 km's 0,9 %
1988: 8 stages 89,02 km's 6610,37 km's 1,3 %
1989: 1 stages 16,8 km's 6795,26 km's 0,2 %
1990: 5 stages 89,32 km's 6845,95 km's 1,3 %
1991: 7 stages 89,01 km's 7545,63 km's 1,2 %
1992: 13 stages 315,69 km's 7374 km's 4,3 %
1993: 2 stages 14,08 km's 7060,82 km's 0,2 %
1994: 2 stages 0 km's 5394,47 km's 0,0 %
1995: 5 stages 77,78 km's 4502,69 km's 1,7 %
1996: 8 stages 410,67 km's 5786,5 km's 7,1 %
1997: 5 stages 34,87 km's 7188,43 km's 0,5 %
1998: 4 stages 71,09 km's 5871,28 km's 1,2 %
1999: 6 stages 143,4 km's 6127,27 km's 2,3 %
2000: 5 stages 103,35 km's 6074,27 km's 1,7 %
2001: 11 stages 326,35 km's 6173,79 km's 5,3 %
2002: 11 stages 297,14 km's 6144,27 km's 4,8 %
2003: 4 stages 89,22 km's 5625,18 km's 1,6 %
2004: 7 stages 202,49 km's 6244,14 km's 3,2 %
2005: 5 stages 106,84 km's 5775,39 km's 1,8 %
2006: 7 stages 139,6 km's 5672,45 km's 2,5 %
2007: 8 stages 140,2 km's 5719,48 km's 2,5 %
2008: 9 stages 103,68 km's 5315,13 km's 2,0 %
2009: 6 stages 92,14 km's 4226,7 km's 2,2 %
2010: 5 stages 94,69 km's 4581,39 km's 2,1 %
2011: 6 stages 73,48 km's 4777,85 km's 1,5 %
2012: 6 stages 102,92 km's 5161,66 km's 2,0 %
2013: 3 stages 83,57 km's 4698,96 km's 1,8 %
2014: 5 stages 76,69 km's 4540,08 km's 1,7 %
2015: 6 stages 175,64 km's 4454,8 km's 3,9 %
2016: 10 stages 119,52 km's 4456,35 km's 2,7 %
2017: 8 stages 170,25 km's 4424,63 km's 3,8 %
2018: 1 stages 14,12 km's 4402,63 km's 0,3 %
2019: 8 stages 91,18 km's 4240,54 km's 2,2 %
2020: 7 stages 141,67 km's 1697,67 km's 8,3 %

[Mirek]

Is SS13 live now? Looks like those of us relying on BT Sport in the UK aren't getting it...

It is but it's soooo boring after those stages we could watch today.

[the sniper]

Red Button or https://www.bt.com/sport/watch/live-now/bt-sport-extra-3

Red button worked in the end, I was only getting football option, probably Virgin Media's fault...

[Essaj]

Taka might get his robbed stage win here

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Red button worked in the end, I was only getting football option, probably Virgin Media's fault...

Mostly its been live on Sport 2 but when its the red button that depends if you're the right channel !

[EstWRC]

only the" famous" Toyota unreliabilty can stop Ogier here

[Fast Eddie WRC]

only the" famous" Toyota unreliabilty can stop Ogier here

It didnt stop Tanak...

[T16]

https://twitter.com/inforallyes/status/1335220719907713027?s=20

Greensmith

That barrier could have been a bastard behind the eyes.
Lucky pair.

[EstWRC]

damn Sordo you ruined it again

[AnttiL]

Marathon stages are not problem (this cancelled stage had only 22 kms, so nothing special). Problem is that total mileage of rallies is lower and lower and instead of rally it is going closer to rallysprints...

My comment didn't concern this rally. 22 km isn't really a marathon stage. I meant that when you arrange a stage of 40 km of more, you risk that the stage gets cancelled and then a high percentage of your stage kilometres goes away and you get closer to awarding only partial points. I've heard this directly from someone who works at a WRC event.

Rallysprint in Finland means a 3-6 km stage driven twice. I think we're still far from that ;)

[TypeR]

damn, Sordo.. Taka missed his first WRC stage win by 0.6s..

[Essaj]

Putting my life savings on Taka's stage win on this stage tomorrow :D

[EstWRC]

Sordo: "if we can do flat out and safe it would be nice"

lol

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Nice words from Sordo on Evans.

[Mirek]

Rallysprint in Finland means a 3-6 km stage driven twice. I think we're still far from that ;)

Where Pluto lives Rallysprint is a one-day long rally of 60-80 km ;)

[Sulland]

What was Formoes issue on 11?

[PLuto]

What was Formoes issue on 11?

Spun / damaged suspension (https://rally-base.com/2020/aci-rally-monza-2020/?ssId=6053&ssGroupId=1)

[mknight]

What was Formoes issue on 11?

He crashes into the right side just 2 corners after Evans

[SubaruNorway]

Tidemand's 2:10 penalty must be wrong?

[AnttiL]

Now that Robertson won snooker semi-final, I had time to revisit this and do some revisions. Firstly, it now includes both cancelled stage as well as stages with nominal times. That changed little but for accuracy it's important. In addition, final column is added to give proportion of cancelled stage lengths per total rally lengths. 2020 indeed seems to have highest ratio with 8,3%, after 1996 that had 7,1%. On average, 2,3% of stage kilometers are cancelled annually. Bear in mind that pre-1979 years do lack plenty of stage data.

Thanks for the list! 2020 indeed had many canceled stages compared to the very short stage milage. Let's rewind back why they were cancelled

Sweden 1 stage for bad snow conditions
Mexico 1 stage for fire engine putting out Lappi's car
Mexico 3 stages, whole last day because of COVID-19
Monza 1 stage red flagged for Veiby's car in the middle of the road
Monza 1 stage canceled because of bad weather

I would say the whole canceled Sunday in Mexico was quite exceptional, not having them would reduce the canceled kilometres to 85 and the percentage to 5%, which is already closer to normal but still relatively high.

However, 2018 stands out as very low on the numbers, although All Live was already used and the safety systems were similar. I remember it was only one stage in Catalunya canceled because of spectators. It rained heavily and Toyotas had rain tyres and basically lost time because of that.

[Essaj]

Tideman's 2:10 penalty must be wrong?

"SS11 2:10 Late (13 min) at TC" Let's see, sounds weird

[PLuto]

Tideman's 2:10 penalty must be wrong?

Tidemand has no penalty

[Mirek]

Kopecký: "To do only one WRC rally per year makes no sense."

That says it all and I'm afraid there may be no next time.

[mknight]

Allive WRC2 preference over WRC3 goes so far that when they now had 3 WRC3 crews on stage, all in top 10, they instead go to Formaux that is last in WRC2 and 27 or so mins behind.

[the sniper]

Now that Robertson won snooker semi-final, I had time to revisit this and do some revisions. Firstly, it now includes both cancelled stage as well as stages with nominal times. That changed little but for accuracy it's important. In addition, final column is added to give proportion of cancelled stage lengths per total rally lengths. 2020 indeed seems to have highest ratio with 8,3%, after 1996 that had 7,1%. On average, 2,3% of stage kilometers are cancelled annually. Bear in mind that pre-1979 years do lack plenty of stage data.

Thanks. Interesting to note some of the anomalies. 1992 took a relatively big hit on the Tour de Course, with stages cancelled due to the football stadium tragedy, a non rally event. In 1996 16%/291km of the Safari was lost in just three stages, which would have left a dent on the season overall, though the rally was still 1493km, nearly the length of the entire 2020 season!

[PLuto]

Kopecký: "To do only one WRC rally per year makes no sense."

That says it all and I'm afraid there may be no next time.

I think it is not only "one WRC rally per year". His biggest problem that until now he did only three races this year...

[mknight]

I think it is not only "one WRC rally per year". His biggest problem that until now he did only three races this year...

Mikkelsen had 2 races until now and also just one WRC rally.

[Mirek]

I think it is not only "one WRC rally per year". His biggest problem that until now he did only three races this year...

I meant that it says that he won't do any one-off starts in the WRC in the future and I doubt he is able to manage any meaningful program such as full WRC3.

[PLuto]

Allive WRC2 preference over WRC3 goes so far that when they now had 3 WRC3 crews on stage, all in top 10, they instead go to Formaux that is last in WRC2 and 27 or so mins behind.

They have made interviews with WRC3 drivers only because they were starting in front of Fourmaux...

[SubaruNorway]

Allive WRC2 preference over WRC3 goes so far that when they now had 3 WRC3 crews on stage, all in top 10, they instead go to Formaux that is last in WRC2 and 27 or so mins behind.

Might It have something to do with them having no camera...?

[PLuto]

Mikkelsen had 2 races until now and also just one WRC rally.

It is different to do three rallies during half a year and two events (plus some testing) during one month before the event...

[Mirek]

Allive WRC2 preference over WRC3 goes so far that when they now had 3 WRC3 crews on stage, all in top 10, they instead go to Formaux that is last in WRC2 and 27 or so mins behind.

I guess they don't have data transmitters in WRC3 cars.

[AnttiL]

That's the problem and you're probably right, suits them for events to get ever shorter, though nobody has to enjoy that fact. Requiring events to be at least 350km, preferably all around 400km, is hardly a massive leap and would provide for at least some contingency/legitimacy.

I'm not offending them by going as far as to insult the precious cloverleaf format... :D

I agree personally, but I also understand that everything is tight right now and there's not much spare for additional costs on the rally organizer side...

[AnttiL]

Allive WRC2 preference over WRC3 goes so far that when they now had 3 WRC3 crews on stage, all in top 10, they instead go to Formaux that is last in WRC2 and 27 or so mins behind.

I just tuned in to see Emil Lindholm being interviewed.

WRC3 cars don't have onboard cameras.

Also, WRC2 teams pay a high entry fee and get television coverage in return. If WRC3 would be shown equally on TV; it wouldn't make sense to pay the higher price.

[AnttiL]

Neuville doesn't restart tomorrow.

[meh]

Everyone who is crying for Evans.. I'm not happy for him probably losing his title either, but let's admit it - he made a mistake. If it could be mechanical failure, then I could understand this behavior better.

[mknight]

Might It have something to do with them having no camera...?

Ok, thanks for explanation.

[AnttiL]

I am not sure you can expect more transparency from FIA/organizers, they are not run like a public affairs office.

On the other hand I totally agree that "allive" has way too much "tv mentality" of a scripted show. When something happens they should just keep working (from studio, stage end, w/e). Sure they will often have little info, but the constant turning off is really irritating.

They have their "tv stages" now every 3-4 stages, but they could still run non-stop between tbh.

It's not exactly cheap to broadcast All Live with the aeroplane in the air etc. I totally understand that they switch off if nothing is happening.

[mknight]

Neuville doesn't restart tomorrow.

I have to say I don't get it still...

Adamo talking about "not risking anything". Risking what? Destroyed engine? Does that matter now?

[mknight]

It's not exactly cheap to broadcast All Live with the aeroplane in the air etc. I totally understand that they switch off if nothing is happening.

The reporters in service park are still there and can comment what is happening. Instead we have to go to twitter etc. ourselves and search for stuff. Before Mexico they used to have studio guests, but I guess that's cancelled due to COVID.

Sometimes last year they also used to have a fixed camera in service park, nothing like that now.

On this rally they could even have fixed camera looking at the track next to the service park.

[meh]

Tänak had puncture. That was the reason for slow splits

[meh]

After SS13 - 5 Finns in Top10.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/66881-aci-rally-monza-2020/?s=303926

[AnttiL]

I have to say I don't get it still...

Adamo talking about "not risking anything". Risking what? Destroyed engine? Does that matter now?

Yeah, engine is expensive to replace and they could probably save it with a rebuild in the shop. They must be for real because they are risking a situation where Neuville's restart finish would bring necessary manufacturer points in case of Sordo/Tänak retires

[rp]

After SS13 - 5 Finns in Top10.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/66881-aci-rally-monza-2020/?s=303926

I can get only 4. Could be 5 if Suninen had not retired...

[AnttiL]

After SS13 - 5 Finns in Top10.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/66881-aci-rally-monza-2020/?s=303926

I counted only four :D

[AnttiL]

The reporters in service park are still there and can comment what is happening. Instead we have to go to twitter etc. ourselves and search for stuff. Before Mexico they used to have studio guests, but I guess that's cancelled due to COVID.

Sometimes last year they also used to have a fixed camera in service park, nothing like that now.

On this rally they could even have fixed camera looking at the track next to the service park.

I don't know about you guys but I usually shut off All Live anyway when the stage ends, I don't care that much for the studio analysises, because it rarely gives any information. For sure I wouldn't watch a fixed camera shooting an empty service park / circuit area :D

[Mirek]

But I counted five Rally2/R5 cars in top 10 :D

[mknight]

I don't know about you guys but I usually shut off All Live anyway when the stage ends, I don't care that much for the studio analysises, because it rarely gives any information. For sure I wouldn't watch a fixed camera shooting an empty service park / circuit area :D

When it's 15 mins to next stage or when I am doing something else in the room and have it on TV it would be nice.

[logic]

I have to say I don't get it still...

Adamo talking about "not risking anything". Risking what? Destroyed engine? Does that matter now?

yes it does.

[Milujeme Rally]

currently after SS13

1. ���� Ogier (Toyota WRC) (97 + 25 ) = 122b. 1️⃣
2. ���� Sordo (Hyundai WRC) (26 + 18) = 44b.
3. ���� Tanak (Hyundai WRC) (83 + 15) = 98b. 3️⃣
4. ���� Lappi (M-Sport Ford WRC) (38 + 12) = 50b.
5. ���� Rovanpera (Toyota WRC) (70 + 10) = 80b.
6. ���� Katsuta (Toyota WRC) (8 + 8) = 16b.
7. ���� Evans (Toyota WRC) (111 + 6) = 117b. 2️⃣
8. ���� Neuville (Hyundai WRC) (87 + 4) = 91b. 4️⃣

[EstWRC]

how did you get those points for Evans and Neuville?

[Milujeme Rally]

they don't go to points anymore?
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/66881-aci-rally-monza-2020/?s=303926&ct=1017

[AnttiL]

they don't go to points anymore?

Not like that. Manufacturer points only. For driver points you need to be in the top 10

[Milujeme Rally]

thanks for the explanation

[Milujeme Rally]

Video clip of a reverse angle view of ElfynEvans sliding-off off the road backwards on SS11

https://twitter.com/i/status/1335294162032324614

[dimviii]

Οgier watching times at ewrc.cz

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eofu3KzXEAEYca2?format=jpg&name=large

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/VeibyErik/status/1335299123717791749


Erik Veiby
@VeibyErik
·
24m
Not same sportmanship from all crews today #doublecrashss10
@GreensmithGus

@MSportLtd

@OfficialWRC

@OfficialWRC

@DirtFishRally

This one's quite sour...

[mknight]

This one's quite sour...

Yeah, while true it's a bit uncalled for. Greensmith probably didn't have much time anyway and IT would be much more risky to stand somewhere in that fast section.

Anyway when Sordo was commenting about getting warned by S.Martin, I had to recall Catalunya 2017...

[AnttiL]

https://www.rally-maps.com/ACI-Rally-Monza-2020

The maps are finally online, if you're interested to take a look

[EstWRC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x16mAupW1_8

[doubled1978]

https://twitter.com/VeibyErik/status/1335299123717791749



This one's quite sour...

He’s probably got a point on this, could have been avoided with a warning as per Evans and Ogier.

[Mirek]

He’s probably got a point on this, could have been avoided with a warning as per Evans and Ogier.

It could have been avoided by him driving slower as well. Taka passed.

[mknight]

Formaux got fined 500 euro by FIA for overtaking a lorry in a turn right in front of a police car comming in the opposite direction so that both him and the police had to stop.(Stewards decision n.6)

I wonder what the police said ;)

[EstWRC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KpTrpzo2tw

[the sniper]

https://twitter.com/VeibyErik/status/1335299123717791749

This one's quite sour...

I've got to be honest, I was surprised they didn't try to more obviously slow down the following crews, but as Taka got through, I assumed I'd just not seen them.

[Lancia Stratos]

I have to say I don't get it still...

Adamo talking about "not risking anything". Risking what? Destroyed engine? Does that matter now?

Neuville will not be allowed to restart tomorrow. Red faces all round in that team........

[dimviii]

https://youtu.be/qZGp1tYfmNE

[mousti]

Neuville will not be allowed to restart tomorrow. Red faces all round in that team........According to one Belgian journalist it was the plan to let Neuville drive tomorrow but they screwed up with neglecting the rules with not starting today. The engine damage seems to be a lame excuse to cover up their own failure..

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ONEPLUS A6013 met Tapatalk

[PLuto]

Also no Greensmith, so only 7 WRC tomorrow. And order again according to priorities... - https://rally-base.com/2020/aci-rally-monza-2020/start-list/?startTimeTypeId=1158

[PLuto]

According to one Belgian journalist it was the plan to let Neuville drive tomorrow but they screwed up with neglecting the rules with not starting today. The engine damage seems to be a lame excuse to cover up their own failure..

I was surprised when I see that they didnt picked up the car from parc ferme in the morning. They dont know rules that to restart in next leg, you must at least start to current one?

[SubaruNorway]

Both Gus and TypeR removed their post so i guess it wasn't true they were waving them down?
Just noticed that it was also where Rovanperä hit the bank on SS7

[dimviii]

According to one Belgian journalist it was the plan to let Neuville drive tomorrow but they screwed up with neglecting the rules with not starting today. The engine damage seems to be a lame excuse to cover up their own failure..

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ONEPLUS A6013 met Tapatalk

unbelievable that they didnt know that they had to start today,for competing at Sunday.
i believe at engine failure from water,and that trying to fix it saw that the damage was big.

[SubaruNorway]

I was surprised when I see that they didnt picked up the car from parc ferme in the morning. They dont know rules that to restart in next leg, you must at least start to current one?

Adamo said they would pul him out of parc ferme at 3:50 in the first studio this morning

[Tauri_J]

Watched Tänak's SS11 onboard, he took Evans's corner really cautiously.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Colin McMaster @colmcklein
There's plenty of new and previously used water-filled rutted, gravel tomorrow. It's a treacherous 44km to get through.

Any chance of stage cancellations due to flooding ?

[doubled1978]

It could have been avoided by him driving slower as well. Taka passed.

Of course you are right, but in rally I think it’s normal to act as Evans did and warn oncoming cars of the danger if you have already gone off to try and prevent further incidents.

[Milujeme Rally]

�� VIDEO ��
#38 ���� Sesks M. - Francis R. (Ford Fiesta Rally4) CRASH in SS7

https://www.facebook.com/EpicRallyTribe2.0/videos/1851955098289502

[AnttiL]

I was surprised when I see that they didnt picked up the car from parc ferme in the morning. They dont know rules that to restart in next leg, you must at least start to current one?

The people on Finnish TV broadcast said there's a new rule that you don't have to do the start-and-retire-at-first-tc anymore, you can just announce that "we will restart tomorrow". And they verified this rule from the Toyota team.

[sindroms]

�� VIDEO ��
#38 ���� Sesks M. - Francis R. (Ford Fiesta Rally4) CRASH in SS7

https://www.facebook.com/EpicRallyTribe2.0/videos/1851955098289502

Crew told that brakes was lost shortly before it.

[dimviii]

�� VIDEO ��
#38 ���� Sesks M. - Francis R. (Ford Fiesta Rally4) CRASH in SS7

https://www.facebook.com/EpicRallyTribe2.0/videos/1851955098289502

heavy crash,these crashes that dangerous for neck.

[Tauri_J]

I thought he clipped something on the inside and it threw his car against the outer wall.

[sindroms]

I thought he clipped something on the inside and it threw his car against the outer wall.

I saw the same to be honest... but who knows

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

If SebO can win Monza, he'll be in the same league with Juha..

Sent from my Redmi 6 using Tapatalk

[Mirek]

Of course you are right, but in rally I think it’s normal to act as Evans did and warn oncoming cars of the danger if you have already gone off to try and prevent further incidents.

Yes but it was around two minutes after Gus got out of the car to Veiby's coming. Moreover Gus ended far behind the corner. To warn Veiby he would need to run some 100-200 meters on the stage against a blind corner right after getting out of the car. And from that blind corner Veiby could come any time. Not safe at all either.

[SubaruNorway]

Yes but it was around two minutes after Gus got out of the car to Veiby's coming. Moreover Gus ended far behind the corner. To warn Veiby he would need to run some 100-200 meters on the stage against a blind corner right after getting out of the car. And from that blind corner Veiby could come any time. Not safe at all either.

6 minutes to Veiby, 3 to Taka

[PLuto]

The people on Finnish TV broadcast said there's a new rule that you don't have to do the start-and-retire-at-first-tc anymore, you can just announce that "we will restart tomorrow". And they verified this rule from the Toyota team.

After my this year experience, I will never believe factory team or team from WRC that they know rules correctly...

[itix]

This rally is brilliant in my eyes. More mountain stages and less monza stages and this is very welcome back in 2021 in my book. It's a hell of a lot more exciting than the sardegna event.

Same rally, same time next year would be fantastic.

[Steve Boyd]

After my this year experience, I will never believe factory team or team from WRC that they know rules correctly...
It is covered by Art.54.1.1 of the WRC Sporting Code which says:

Unless stated differently in the rally supplementary regulations, a crew which has failed to complete a section may be assumed to re-start the rally from the start of the next section following the overnight regroup unless they confirm otherwise with the clerk of the course by completing of the form located in the rear of the road book (‘final retirement’) and lodging it with the organiser as soon as possible and, if feasible, before the publication of the re-start list.I can't see anything in the supplementtary regulations for this rally or any of the bulletins to change the standard wording.
I believe the key part is:

a crew which has failed to complete a section may be assumed to re-start the rally from the start of the next section following the overnight regroupAs far as I'm concerned you can't "fail to complete a section" if you didn't start it. They should have got the crew to push the car through the first TC of day 2, got their start time for the day and then retired again if they wanted to run on day 3 and the car wasn't fixed.

[dimviii]

Good morning guys!

[EstWRC]

Kalle with full wets way faster than guys in front of him with snowtyres

and Tänak also took full wets compared to Sordo who took snowtyres

[mknight]

Btw if Ogier retires title gets decided on PS...

[EstWRC]

this is just so boooooring to watch compared to yesterday

why couldnt we have those stages also again today or at least one of them

[TypeR]

Why did they put snowtires on Sordo's car.. Rovanperä will get podium with such pace..

[Essaj]

Ogier wants to finish the season as fast as possible :D Crazy man

[EstWRC]

Why did they put snowtires on Sordo's car.. Rovanperä will get podium with such pace..

on next stage they all will have snowtyres cause those are muddy

[Tauri_J]

Is it me or does Kopecky look like Bear Grylls?

[mknight]

So not even today are we going to see 4 out of top10 cars (6-8 and 10 ).
Not from stopline...not from outsider. On a stage around the service park.

[AnttiL]

this is just so boooooring to watch compared to yesterday

why couldnt we have those stages also again today or at least one of them

This circuit stage is boring indeed. Monza Rally show was 95% like this. The Friday stages and the power stage with the gravel parts are much more interesting.

[AnttiL]

So not even today are we going to see 4 out of top10 cars (6-8 and 10 ).
Not from stopline...not from outsider. On a stage around the service park.

Like I've said many times, it's a political decision from the WRC Promoter. You have to pay the WRC2 entry fee to get shown on WRC+.

Besides, there's only one land camera and no helicopter so we wouldn't see much of the cars with no onboard cameras...

[mknight]

The people at the stop line were there and I am quite sure they also did interviews, just not show them.

[SubaruNorway]

I'm sure we will get them on both the next ones

[mknight]

Btw. they showed Sordos penalty from Friday and it certainly was much more warranted than Lappis.

[AnttiL]

The people at the stop line were there and I am quite sure they also did interviews, just not show them.

What makes you think so? I know that they did interview the drivers on Saturday night but that was because more WRC2 crews were still on the run so they had onboard material to fill the broadcast with

[AnttiL]

I'm sure we will get them on both the next ones

They are both TV stages and there's not enough WRC+WRC2 cars to fill an hour so we'll see some WRC3 as well, yes.

[mknight]

What makes you think so? I know that they did interview the drivers on Saturday night but that was because more WRC2 crews were still on the run so they had onboard material to fill the broadcast with

Formaux was still on track now since he was late out of service.

[er88]

Has anything more been said about the Lappi tyre/weather situation yesterday, where he said he wasn't given any info about the snow by Msport?

[dimviii]

WRC Monza: Neuville disqualified following a team error

The Belgian is not allowed to restart in SuperRally. Hyundai mentions engine problems ...

Thierry Neuville does not resume his journey as planned. Explanation of Andrea Adamo, director of Hyundai Motorsport: "We have found that there is more damage than expected to the engine after taking so much water and we do not want to risk sending the car into the mountains. . Either way, that would be stupid. We have nothing to gain from it. But we are staying in SuperRally with the opportunity to get Thierry to start again on Sunday to gain a few points. "

What he may not know at the time is that the management of his team made a big mistake. An error in reading or rather his knowledge of the rules. To be able to stay in SuperRally, you have to start the 2nd stage. And to take the start of the 2nd stage, the crew must be present (and not just the mechanics) and rush, with a maximum of thirty minutes late before disqualification.

However, everyone saw that the Hyundai was left alone for more than two hours this morning in the parc fermé. The Neuville-Gilsoul team therefore did not officially take the start of stage 2 and was logically excluded from the race this morning without the possibility of starting again this Sunday.

Rather than admit the error of his team, while everyone expected Thierry Neuville to resume the race this Sunday to increase his counter by a few points and especially to offer a few to his employer in case of 'abandonment of one of the two i20 WRCs of Dani Sordo or Ott Tanak, Andrea Adamo declared: "We have decided not to restart Thierry tomorrow because we have seen that the damage is too great and it would be stupid to take additional risks. "

Nonsense! To be nice, let's say the boss covers the author of the dumpling who will pray tonight that his fault does not cost them the title. Which is, fortunately for him, highly unlikely ...

https://www.dhnet.be/sports/moteurs/wrc/wrc-monza-neuville-mis-hors-course-suite-a-une-erreur-du-team-5fcbd687d8ad5874796e9f6d

[mknight]

Has anything more been said about the Lappi tyre/weather situation yesterday, where he said he wasn't given any info about the snow by Msport?

No and he was very diplomatic about the whole afternoon loop later in the evening. Either it was also partly his fault, or he realized he has no contract next year.

[AnttiL]

No and he was very diplomatic about the whole afternoon loop later in the evening. Either it was also partly his fault, or he realized he has no contract next year.

Again for Finnish media he said quite directly that "the team had too little information and it got f-d up"

[EstWRC]

PS is mostly the same stage where Neuville stopped?

[AnttiL]

PS is mostly the same stage where Neuville stopped?

Partly same but some sections we haven’t seen before.

Some parts on the Friday stages were upgraded from plain grass to a gravel surface between the recce videos and the race. The power stage has one place where they go around this circle full of grass (not a full donut though), let's see if it has the same treatment. Otherwise it could be as slow and treacherous as Katsuta's corner on SS1

[KKS]

WRC Monza: Neuville disqualified following a team error

The Belgian is not allowed to restart in SuperRally. Hyundai mentions engine problems ...

Thierry Neuville does not resume his journey as planned. Explanation of Andrea Adamo, director of Hyundai Motorsport: "We have found that there is more damage than expected to the engine after taking so much water and we do not want to risk sending the car into the mountains. . Either way, that would be stupid. We have nothing to gain from it. But we are staying in SuperRally with the opportunity to get Thierry to start again on Sunday to gain a few points. "

What he may not know at the time is that the management of his team made a big mistake. An error in reading or rather his knowledge of the rules. To be able to stay in SuperRally, you have to start the 2nd stage. And to take the start of the 2nd stage, the crew must be present (and not just the mechanics) and rush, with a maximum of thirty minutes late before disqualification.

However, everyone saw that the Hyundai was left alone for more than two hours this morning in the parc fermé. The Neuville-Gilsoul team therefore did not officially take the start of stage 2 and was logically excluded from the race this morning without the possibility of starting again this Sunday.

Rather than admit the error of his team, while everyone expected Thierry Neuville to resume the race this Sunday to increase his counter by a few points and especially to offer a few to his employer in case of 'abandonment of one of the two i20 WRCs of Dani Sordo or Ott Tanak, Andrea Adamo declared: "We have decided not to restart Thierry tomorrow because we have seen that the damage is too great and it would be stupid to take additional risks. "

Nonsense! To be nice, let's say the boss covers the author of the dumpling who will pray tonight that his fault does not cost them the title. Which is, fortunately for him, highly unlikely ...

https://www.dhnet.be/sports/moteurs/wrc/wrc-monza-neuville-mis-hors-course-suite-a-une-erreur-du-team-5fcbd687d8ad5874796e9f6d
great explanation! And strange that Adamo not telling all truth directly and playing this "show for TV"

[T16]

great explanation! And strange that Adamo not telling all truth directly and playing this "show for TV"

I bet he's way to embarrassed to admit they made that mistake. It's a pretty cutting article. Interesting to see how far DirtFish go with it, you know with Colin being best mates and all that.

[AnttiL]

I bet he's way to embarrassed to admit they made that mistake. It's a pretty cutting article. Interesting to see how far DirtFish go with it, you know with Colin being best mates and all that.

I believe Hyundai and DF are doing enough of collaboration not to make a scandal article

[mknight]

So snow or wet tires...that is the question.

[EstWRC]

So snow or wet tires...that is the question.

judging from todays first stage definitely wet for circuit part, just depends how bad the gravel/grass parts are

E: definitely snow, too much mud parts on this stage

[KKS]

So far from footage of last stage - Rally Hungary was not bad at all )))

[SubaruNorway]

Easy to puncture with the snow tire though

[AnttiL]

The camera just cut to Katsuta when Evans was going to a new section...a ssmall service road at the side of the oval

[EstWRC]

Michelin #Tyre info - SS15

Toyota:
Ogier/Evans/Rovanperä/Katsuta: 4 MICHELIN Pilot Alpin A4 +1 MICHELIN Pilot Sport FW3

Hyundai:
Tänak/Sordo: 4A4 + 1FW3

Msport:
Lappi: 4A4

[EstWRC]

no stage win for Tänak from this rally it seems

all the time loses all the time on the second parts of the stages, Sordo took 5 secs out of him in here

[Lead]

Mikkelsen controlling the gap between him and Solberg. Yesterday's broken gear shift lever on SS7 made a things a little bit more interesting time wise, other than that - he won the whole rally on day1.

[mknight]

Well according to J. Porters accurate reporting right now Lindholm has been closely fighting with Mikkelsen whole weekend? (30s is close? Solberg is invisible?)

[Lead]

Before the rally I though Kopecky could win this, but without practice and so less km's inside the car didnt help his confidence. And of course weather conditions also.

[Mirek]

Kopecký also had left front puncture on this one. His time is not that bad for finishing with a tyre off the rim.

[Rallyper]

Usually I´m not that interested in points scoring. But now:

Anyone counted where Ogier can be, without loosing the title. Third overall? Too lazy myself finding out actually...

[Milujeme Rally]

2011

https://www.instagram.com/stories/gentedetramo/2457746751694381361/

[bluuford]

Those who were angry about stage cancellation yesterday, some reading for you :)

https://www.severe-weather.eu/mcd/extreme-snow-italy-alps-europe-mk/

It is exceptional situation and in exceptional circumstances, models does not work well, because they learn from existing cases.

If you go just a few tens of km-s north from rally route you can see already meters of snow. and if you read this article, you can see that maximum expected snow in the mountains region is over 5 meters, then you must understand that in the region hit severely by COVID and now by flooding and snowstorm, you just cannot direct all your best forces and machines to secure sport event. I know it is frustrating for us, but we have to understand also the general picture. Even if you have access by ambulance or firetruck along the stage (organizers put huge efforts to clean the stage overnight), if you access roads are blocked by snow and imagine the stage is blocked by crashed cars on the narrow steep downhill route, you just cannot take too much risks.

[EstWRC]

starting order

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EojL3H1WEAE1SJw?format=jpg&name=large

[mknight]

Tidemand on 4snow tires.

[Humber]

Hoping not to jinx anyone, but one tends to remember Carlos Sainz and the 1998 RAC Rally with the Toyota Corolla engine at times like this.

[Rallyper]

Here we go!

[EstWRC]

i wonder what the approach from Tänak will be for PS

yeah its close to zero the chance that something happens with Ogier but lets say he has a puncture and loses 2 minutes and drops to 6th, then automatically Tänak has a chance for the title but then he must also grab 5 points from PS and Evans shouldnt score more than 2 points from PS

so if he really believes theres a chance he must be fastest for this stage anyway to pass Sordo and take maximum points

[Mirek]

Ostberg also on snow tyres.

[Rallyper]

i wonder what the approach from Tänak will be for PS

yeah its close to zero the chance that something happens with Ogier but lets say he has a puncture and loses 2 minutes and drops to 6th, then automatically Tänak has a chance for the title but then he must also grab 5 points from PS and Evans shouldnt score more than 2 points from PS

so if he really believes theres a chance he must be fastest for this stage anyway

If teamorders doesn´t come he will try. For sure.

[Sulland]

No splits on the PS?

Edit: yes, there we are.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Its all about the Manus title for the Hyundai guys. No risks will be taken here.

[Mirek]

Puncture for Tidemand. Front right.

[EstWRC]

Tidemand with a puncture, really easy to get it here with those big holes and i saw also some big stones on the road

[jonkka]

Usually I´m not that interested in points scoring. But now:

Anyone counted where Ogier can be, without loosing the title. Third overall? Too lazy myself finding out actually...

Assuming Tanak would win and discounting PS point permutations, fourth overall would still guarantee title for Ogier by a single point (109 vs 108).

[cali]

Assuming Tanak would win and discounting PS point permutations, fourth overall would still guarantee title for Ogier by a single point (109 vs 108).No, Evans has 111 before the rally already.

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[Fast Eddie WRC]

Big relief for Østberg. Good job.

[Rallyper]

BIG congrats to Mads and Torstein!!! WRC2 champions!!

[Mirek]

Ostberg was the fastest through the season, he deserved the title.

[PLuto]

Can you tell me why they put Kristensson to the top crews for power stage when they are almost not showing him?

[jonkka]

No, Evans has 111 before the rally already.

Quite indeed, how did I overlook that :blushed grin: So, amend that for third overall to beat Evans, again discounting PS points.

[mknight]

Ostberg was the fastest through the season, he deserved the title.

Fastest WRC2. Problem is there is no point for him to try to compete with other RC2 and risk crashing. The epic fail of the WRC2/3 concept.

[Sulland]

Yes Mads, World Champion - First for Norway since 2003!!
Congratulations to Mads and Torstein, well deserved after developing the C3 into a very drivable and competitive car!

[Mirek]

Huttunen is another well deserved champion.

[cali]

Ogier wins title with a win or 2nd place + 2 points in PS. It's really difficult for Ogier to lose the title

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[EstWRC]

Congrats Huttunen and Ostberg

[Rallyper]

Good job from Huttunen as well! Will he be WDC before Kalle?

[cali]

Congrats to both champions in WRC2 and WRC3! Well done and deserved!

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[Mirek]

Fastest WRC2. Problem is there is no point for him to try to compete with other RC2 and risk crashing. The epic fail of the WRC2/3 concept.

They cope with what is given by the rules. It's not their mistake and for me there is no point to bring this point to the drivers discussion.

[Essaj]

Did WRC+ just completely die for anyone else?

[EstWRC]

Katsuta faster than Evans in split 1

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Think he's happy !

[MTA]

Congrats Tom! Very worth the win in the JWRC!

[Rallyper]

BIG CONGRATS to Tom Kristenson for the title in JWRC!! Just the best man won. Good job.

[Mirek]

Well done, Kristensson!