Citroen WRT

[AnttiL]

That's great. Always nice to see more cars out.

Especially competitive ones. Mads will have a huge starting position advantage but we will see how Citroen has improved on gravel.

[racerx1979]

Especially competitive ones. Mads will have a huge starting position advantage but we will see how Citroen has improved on gravel.

That's a great point. Mads is a capable driver and has the ability to win if all goes well for him. He always seems to fall under pressure. Leading in the beginning and slowly falling behind as the day goes. Would be nice to see him charge for a good finish.

[AnttiL]

That's a great point. Mads is a capable driver and has the ability to win if all goes well for him. He always seems to fall under pressure. Leading in the beginning and slowly falling behind as the day goes. Would be nice to see him charge for a good finish.

Last year we saw him often in the top 3 during the first day, especially morning stages, but he could never finish with a good result. However, it was often due to his private car breaking on parts that never broke on the M-Sport cars.

[bassist]

Third car for Mad's but they couldn't give Craig a third car when Seb was having a play????? Mad's must be paying cash!!!!

[AnttiL]

Third car for Mad's but they couldn't give Craig a third car when Seb was having a play????? Mad's must be paying cash!!!!

It's obvious. The car even had Adapta stickers in Sweden.

[racerx1979]

Mads is partially paying. I don't know the exact percentages, but Mads is not paying the full amount as in his Ford deal. It's the best scenario for him.

I also think Mads has ruined his chances of being fully picked by any team since they know he comes from money and is willing to pay for drives. If he can get a few wins it would be a different story, but when you pay for a drive you sometimes get a car that is not up to par... it's a nasty situation. This is why you see promoters of young talent telling teams there is no way they are paying for a drive. I think once you go down this road it is hard to get out.

[wrc2017]

It's obvious. The car even had Adapta stickers in Sweden.
some ppl pay more to have full wrx livery..

[AnttiL]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/136062/loeb-unlikely-to-fit-into-citroen-2019-plans

Pierre Budar says Loeb is not welcome for a partial program in 2019. Are they trying to play games to get him for a full season?

[br21]

if he rally said that only game he plays is with his job for next season...

[ESTR]

I understan it that wa that if Loeb will get some events like this year some of drivers will again need to stay home. Especially Breen is mentioned. Everything could be acessible with all three cars for full season. Kris (if he will be in game next year), Breen and rotating third car, I don't know, Qassimi, Lefebvre, Loeb, Ostberg. No they are rather cheap bastards...

[kiil]

What???

http://media.citroenracing.com/en/statement

Meeke out for the rest of the season.

[BigWorm]

Inevitable.

[AnttiL]

Wow.

[ESTR]

Sure for media the right excuse. He is costing more than they are provided. I don't see any team wants him now. Shame, he is a great driver, just the car was such a crap that he is now all to blame for... Who will step in his car Al Qassimi? Lefebvre... Only free driver at the moment and who can drive that car is Ostberg and I see stupid Citroen will not make that happen.

[EightGear]

Could they have been hacked?

1. Just minutes before, Meeke posted how he was already preparing for Sardinia.
2. The link doesn't work.
3. Somehow the use of words seems a bit strange for public.

[N.O.T]

Meekes career is over and to be honest it was inevitable.

However kicking someone out mid season just justifies that citroen are nothing more than arabs of nothing.

Good riddance to that arab joke at the end of the season.

[ESTR]

Well said godfather

[AnttiL]

Could they have been hacked?

1. Just minutes before, Meeke posted how he was already preparing for Sardinia.
2. The link doesn't work.
3. Somehow the use of words seems a bit strange for public.

Official WRC Twitter has a screenshot of it. Seems legit.

[Eli]

Jesus Christ Kris....

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[[WRCRR]]

Seriously fuck Citroen for this, trash level team.

[EstWRC]

ridiculous team, you dont do like that to your driver with half the season to go

absolutely ridiculous...

[er88]

Well that's Citroen even more of a nothing team this season. Breen and Ostberg fighting for the 5th at best, the Sheikh struggling to beat wrc2 drivers and Loeb pushing too hard to compete at the front when he returns in Spain.

They'll pull out at the end of the year now surely?

Portugal could've been so different. I mean, Meeke would've been fighting Neuville had the two unlucky punctures not happened. Argentina was the same.

He should've just settled down after his rally was over though, and backed off and taken 7th or whatever position he was in.

Should've just let him see out his contract. They would've had a few more crashes to deal with, but also maybe a win or two to celebrate as well. Now their only real chance is a retired Loeb to win in Spain before they pull out and put themselves out of this misery.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I dont believe it.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Shit, its true... :(

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dd-mWcaVQAAs7xq.jpg

[bassist]

Not great news at all, but to be honest I'm not surprised! Don't think we will see Citroen next season.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Seems they are saying the publicity of the crashes is damaging the Citroen brand ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dd4-XdBV4AEUeK1.jpg

[KKS]

fck it! Idiotic team with an idiotic decisions!

[KKS]

Who will step in his car Al Qassimi? Lefebvre... .
Yep... dream team on his way

[AnttiL]

Two car team rest of the year with more drives for Østberg? Al-Qassimi on third when he wants

[Simmi]

Press release reads like Citroen are saving Meeke from himself. In reality I think they are looking at a hefty chassis and parts bill and someone has made a call. I can't remember who said it earlier but he's not worth what he's costing them. I think the manner of this is bad from Citroen. It's a bullshit press release. But I don't think the end result is all that surprising.

As for Meeke's own social media post. Let's be real Kris isn't sat there at his computer doing this all himself. His brother Barry does his social media for him so it could be that this post has been ready for a while and it just was posted unfortunately very close to Citroen's announcement. You'd like to think they told him more than an hour before slapping out the press release. Or I guess it could have been deliberately timed to make Citroen look bad. Who knows - the comment about the support of Budar particularly stands out. But maybe just with hindsight.

Sadly I'm not sure how Meeke fits back in now at WRC level. Perhaps he could replace Elfyn next year if his general trend this season continues. But I think that may be it.

[danon]

Good move by Citroen!

Kri$ Meeke is safe, alive and healthy.

[T16]

Seems they are saying the publicity of the crashes is damaging the Citroen brand ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dd4-XdBV4AEUeK1.jpg

Where do they say that?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Where do they say that?

Reading between the lines...

The PR Dept wouldnt want more pictures like that going around the world.

Do you really believe its 'safely issues' and a 'preventative measure' to save Meeke from himself ?

[RaunoK]

Reading between the lines...

Do you really believe its 'safely issues' and a 'preventative measure' to save Meeke from himself ?

Not only Meeke and Nagle, but spectators too. The media backlash would do great damage to Citroen brand if Meeke's accident would hurt any of the spectators, especially considering Citroen has had numerous warnings from all those crashes.

[Francis44]

Obviously they have been wanting to get
rid of him, purely because the results are not there.

Not fair to do it mid season, but honestly they gave him plenty of chances.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It certainly doesnt fit in with their latest Ad campaign: 'Comfort is the new cool'... this is their future direction.

I think they were going to pull the plug on WRC at the end of the season anyway, and they dont want to risk damage to their brand before they go.

[T16]

Reading between the lines...

The PR Dept wouldnt want more pictures like that going around the world.

Do you really believe its 'safely issues' and a 'preventative measure' to save Meeke from himself ?

I didn't say I thought that at all!!

I think he's costing them too much money and it's pointless him being in the car if he can't bring it home. The car hasn't been right from day one and Kris is too stubborn to just cruise around and get a result, because it makes it look like he's the slow one, not the car.

They had a full season last one, with testing and development in-between, but they just haven't progressed. There's a lot wrong at PSA at the moment and with the end of their programme imminent (i.e. probably this year will be their last) they simply didn't see the value in pouring more and more cash into the car.

It's a sad end to their current chapter in the WRC, but it's been plainly obvious fro the start of last year that they were not really in the game.

Hopefully Peugeot may fill the gap, if they see the marketing value in the WRC again.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I think he's costing them too much money and it's pointless him being in the car if he can't bring it home.



I think the cost in bad publicity is far higher.

[macebig]

Unless Ford and Wilson want him for taping into the "McRae legacy", this is the end of the road for Kris Meeke. It's saddening that his career had to end like this, but the truth is, everything was a vicious circle. He fought a lot of demons (Colin's passing, Mini + Prodrive fallout, bad C3). He always managed to rebuilt his career, but now things are very difficult. Good luck to his future endeavours.

[Francis44]

The change from Citroen to Peugeot for their rally programme has been written in the wall for years, you need to be completely naive not to see it.

Citroen is not a sporty brand anymore, and they never were, they have tried it with the DS3 Racing and such but there targets have changed.

And recently Peugeot's boss hinted that they would invest further in GTI models, you do the math.

[RS]

Citroen will surely go at end of the year. I can't see anyone who is good enough to win wanting to move to that team and drive that car.

[Duvel]

Its a shame for Kris, that true. But in my opinion Citroen do have a valid point puuting him aside for the rest of the season.
When Matton was still in charge, whit the DS3 car, Meeke has had a few "last chanses" already.
In the 2016 "sabatical" year he was able to build and prepare a new generation WRC car to his liking, wich didnt work out that wel. Ok speed is defenetly there, but he has had a lot of chanses over the last 3 or 4 seasons.

[mknight]

It really looks like someone from Citroen leadership saw something like this:


Seems they are saying the publicity of the crashes is damaging the Citroen brand ...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dd4-XdBV4AEUeK1.jpg

And made call to Budar along these lines:

Citroen Leadership: Is it true that they could have died?
Budar: No car is indestructible, with some bad luck drivers/co drivers get injured or even die.

Citroen Leadership: This Meeke has been crashing before hasn't he?
Budar:Yes last year he crashed a lot and was dropped for a rally then crashed again 2 times. This year he also crashed on most events.

Citroen Leadership: But he is your fastest driver?
Budar: Well this year Breen has the best result (2nd) but he does not start all events cause we don't have money since it cost a lot to fix the crashed cars. Loeb was also faster than him both on gravel and tarmac.

Citroen Leadership: Well then, you know what you have to do.

[KKS]

Not only Meeke and Nagle, but spectators too. The media backlash would do great damage to Citroen brand if Meeke's accident would hurt any of the spectators, especially considering Citroen has had numerous warnings from all those crashes.
Paddons off at Monte`17 very damage Hyundai brand?

[dimviii]

very bad publicity for Citroen ,as i read the reactions from twitter.

[Fitz]

Citroen stopped McRae's career short after a year when he thought he was getting a two year deal (even though he only signed a 1year) & now this with Meeke.

As others have said I doubt they'll be around next year.

[ESTR]

As others have said I doubt they'll be around next year.

I think they will retire in a few months, if not earlier

[spiderem]

health and safety! the holy grail to back up any discussion and decision that you don't have the balls to tell the truth and what you really think.

Asta la vista Meeke, pickems will be easier now as it was always a gamble to put him either first or last.

[Mirek]

I wonder what they were thinking in Citroën before. For two years we've kept discussing the fact that their driver line-up is weak but they didn't seem to care to get a proper top driver. Now when Meeke is gone who is there to replace him? Neither Breen, nor Ostberg or Lefebvre are able to fight with Ogier, Neuville and Tänak on the long term. Despite this eventuality of Meeke being fired floating in the air for years Citroën didn't prepare any backup solution as it seems. The only thing they can achieve is some occassional podiums but that's nothing what could change their last position in the championship. Moreover they walked into a disasterous PR trap which was visible from miles...

[racerx1979]

Juho Hanninen on the phone with Budar now.

[Allez Andruet]

I don’t quite get all the bashing Citroen’s receiving due to Meeke being sacked. Judging by his presence in media, he’s a nice chap and all that, but… that’s got nothing to do with the things that occurred few hours ago. Let’s face it: Meeke had 17 months to deliver with the C3 in competition as the clear number one driver in the team he represented – and he didn’t. And not only he didn’t do that, but the way he didn’t deliver was something you just can’t accept from a guy who just 17 months ago was the betting companies’ favourite to grab the 2017 driver’s title. Now if you’re Pierre Budar and you’re running an accountable department (or a business unit) in a listed company that is continuously underdelivering, like Citroen WRT undeniably has, sooner or later you HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. Either you do it yourself or you’re told to do it (at the time we don’t know which one was the case). And then you do sacrifices. At the end of the day, Budar himself is accountable, to both his employees and the executives above him. And I’m sure everybody understands that it’s not like Budar thinks “now that we got rid of Meeke, we’ll be scoring so much more points”. That’s not the philosophy here. He shows he’s trying to change the course and that’s what he’s supposed to do and sacking Meeke is the obvious choice. It leaves room for new heroes to emerge. Is that the most likely scenario to happen? Probably not, but neither was Meeke’s resurrection. And if you, as a manager, are tired of waiting the latter to happen, then why not to go with the other option?

[dimviii]

Moreover they walked into a disasterous PR trap which was visible from miles...
so true!

[FAlonso]

Posted minutes ago...

[racerx1979]

I don’t quite get all the bashing Citroen’s receiving due to Meeke being sacked. Judging by his presence in media, he’s a nice chap and all that, but… that’s got nothing to do with the things that occurred few hours ago. Let’s face it: Meeke had 17 months to deliver with the C3 in competition as the clear number one driver in the team he represented – and he didn’t. And not only he didn’t do that, but the way he didn’t deliver was something you just can’t accept from a guy who just 17 months ago was the betting companies’ favourite to grab the 2017 driver’s title. Now if you’re Pierre Budar and you’re running an accountable department (or a business unit) in a listed company that is continuously underdelivering, like Citroen WRT undeniably has, sooner or later you HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. Either you do it yourself or you’re told to do it (at the time we don’t know which one was the case). And then you do sacrifices. At the end of the day, Budar himself is accountable, to both his employees and the executives above him. And I’m sure everybody understands that it’s not like Budar thinks “now that we got rid of Meeke, we’ll be scoring so much more points”. That’s not the philosophy here. He shows he’s trying to change the course and that’s what he’s supposed to do and sacking Meeke is the obvious choice. It leaves room for new heroes to emerge. Is that the most likely scenario to happen? Probably not, but neither was Meeke’s resurrection. And if you, as a manager, are tired of waiting the latter to happen, then why not to go with the other option?

Spoken like someone who probably runs a business himself. I completely
agree. The writing was on the wall. I'm not one bit surprised. When they went off and we're safe I thought wow, this might be it.

[Rallyper]

To me this was the natural outcome from Meekes´bad results. Also economics. In combination with the high cost crashes, this was expected. To me I´d expected it to happen, not now but after the season.

Meanwhile one should have liked to see better driversmanagement from the bosses in the team. A Meeke never crashing should yet had given top five results even though he never should reach podiums at the beginning. This should have started more than two years ago.

Remember he was only inches from spoiling his victory in Mexico as well.

Let´s se what next chapter will bring.

[AnttiL]

Juho Hanninen on the phone with Budar now.

Juho was still test driving the Yaris a few days ago.

[noel157]

Well at least all the Meeke haters like ....... & Co can have their 15 mins of ecstasy and then decide who they can hate next.

[Allez Andruet]

Juho was still test driving the Yaris a few days ago.

And so was Meeke driving a C3 :p

[AnttiL]

Would it have been better for Meeke in the end if they had made this decision already 11 months ago, after Sardegna 2017?

[er88]

Have none of you ever heard of the saying "basically any publicity is good publicity"?

Meeke wasn't done for none rallying reasons, like problems in his personal life tarnishing the brand in that way. He was only making rallying related headlines.

The Citroen team puts in a meagre amount of finance and scrounges the rest off the Arabs. They have been putting in the least amount possible to give them a reward back. Input vs reward.

Meeke is one of the most popular drivers (for good and bad, because he's dramatic and likeable). He can win races in that car against the best in the world and even when he crashes, it's big big news. Obviously Meeke and Citroen would've rather been world champion last season, but the Citroen team got more mainstream media coverage than near enough all the other teams based off of Mexico alone last year. It was on BBC breakfast 4times the Monday after that power stage incident, when they don't/ barely even report on Wales rally GB anymore. It's not true that this is a decision made because his crashes are damaging Citroen's brand.

It's a decision made because they are either pulling out at the end of the year, or know they are dropping Meeke anyway; and are too tight to even be bothered to pay for some expensive repairs for the rest of the season. So top level management have stepped in imo. Even if Meeke crashed 4 times till the end of the season, got 1 podium and 1 win they'd probably get a hell of a lot more publicity than they will do with Breen, Mads and the Sheikh struggling to break into the top 5 (top 10 in the Sheikhs case).

[mknight]

I wonder what they were thinking in Citroën before. For two years we've kept discussing the fact that their driver line-up is weak but they didn't seem to care to get a proper top driver..


This is the main point here.


Imo the main error in Citroen team leadership was after Germany last year. Failing to get another driver (Ogier and Mikkelsen were in talks then) and keeping Meeke as the only driver doing all rounds in 2018.
By that time it was 100% clear he won't ever get reliable + fast at the same time.

I guess for 2017 they hoped he would keep 2016 motivation and handle the pressure while one of the two young guys will get to the top.
But he couldn't handle the combination of car issues and pressure to perform. You can argue that Breen turned out well, but he is still not on the very top level.

This brings us back to the start of my post, they did need a different top accomplished driver. One of these: Ogier Neuville, Tanak, Latvala, Mikkelsen... or even Sordo to bring some consistency to the team. Matton said as much after Germany 2017, but looks like Citroen leadership axed it.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Paddons off at Monte`17 very damage Hyundai brand?

Though it was a very bad incident, there weren't any pictures. These days with social media its pictures that go around the world. Pictures like...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdlMqxNU8AAsNYP.jpg

The fact the driver was ok and saved by the car isnt seen, it just looks like 'Citroen's crash and then look like this ...'

[tommeke_B]

Sad for Meeke and all spectators. Everything points to an exit from Citroën at the end of the season, which would be a shame...

[Rally Power]

Like some of you already said, it’s not the decision but the timing of it that surprises. Obviously sorry for Meeke and Nagle, but mostly hoping this will not mean the end of Citroen WRC involvement after Rally Australia.

The car has been fixed and if Breen manages to win a couple of events this season he can start ’19 as an underdog title contender. Getting a young and fast 2nd driver (Suninen or Tidemand) alongside a reliable experienced guy (Ostberg or Haninen) would be a fantastic full scale Citroen WRC effort next season. Time will tell if I’m just dreaming awake.

Meanwhile, fingers crossed for the Citroen WRC team.

PS: get ready; Brit rally journos crusade against the French manu will be resumed in a few hours…

[racerx1979]

Would it have been better for Meeke in the end if they had made this decision already 11 months ago, after Sardegna 2017?

I think it's smart to look at this situation from all sides.
Sucks for Meeke? Yes!
Sucks for Meeke fans? Yes!
Sucks for Citroen also yes.

Should they keep giving Meeke "a second chance" after so many crashes? No.
Should the headline mention he crashed too many times? No. Does that change the outcome? No.
Should we all just sit back and watch this since we're just fans with little to none value? Fu@k Yes!

[Whinlatter]

Odd timing for this - yes, Meeke has caused a lot of damage, but he's Citroen's only real hope of winning rallies. Why do this now when you have no one who can come in and challenge for victories? It does feel like a damage limitation exercise as they limp towards an end-of-season exit, and it's one less exciting driver in the line up which is a shame for those of us watching. I wonder if Malcolm might find the money to put him in a Fiesta for a couple of events later in the season?

[racerx1979]

Like some of you already said, it’s not the decision but the timing of it that surprises. Obviously sorry for Meeke and Nagle, but mostly hoping this will not mean the end of Citroen WRC involvement after Rally Australia.

The car has been fixed and if Breen manages to win a couple of events this season he can start ’19 as an underdog title contender. Getting a young and fast 2nd driver (Suninen or Tidemand) alongside a reliable experienced guy (Ostberg or Haninen) would be a fantastic full scale Citroen WRC effort next season. Time will tell if I’m just dreaming awake.

Meanwhile, fingers crossed for the Citroen WRC team.

PS: get ready; Brit rally journos crusade against the French manu will be resumed in a few hours…

Yes, the journos are part of the problem here too. I hope Citroen stays in the WRC forever. Okay if the make a switch to Peugeot that would be fine too, but losing a manu never helps the sport. Subie and Mitsu leaving in the early days was no good and VW recent departure was crap also.

Lets hope Meeke finds a ride and Citroen stays.

The only other request I have is 4 cars for Toyota in Finland with Juho at the wheel.

[denkimi]

did someone actually believed meeke would ever get reliable? he was already known for his crash or win approach when i first saw him in ypres 2009. although he won that rally, i remember him taking a wheel off on the shakedown already.

[focus206]

Like some of you already said, it’s not the decision but the timing of it that surprises. Obviously sorry for Meeke and Nagle, but mostly hoping this will not mean the end of Citroen WRC involvement after Rally Australia.

The car has been fixed and if Breen manages to win a couple of events this season he can start ’19 as an underdog title contender. Getting a young and fast 2nd driver (Suninen or Tidemand) alongside a reliable experienced guy (Ostberg or Haninen) would be a fantastic full scale Citroen WRC effort next season. Time will tell if I’m just dreaming awake.

Meanwhile, fingers crossed for the Citroen WRC team.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see Citroen being in WRC as works team in 2019... Just like I don't see Breen winning an event without a lucky combination of road position/weather/retirements. They'd really need a top driver.


PS: get ready; Brit rally journos crusade against the French manu will be resumed in a few hours…

Good one :D

[danon]

... PS: get ready; Brit rally journos crusade against the French manu will be resumed in a few hours…

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/David-Evans.png

[mknight]

Lets hope Meeke finds a ride and Citroen stays.



Here are a couple of questions for you:

1. Do you really want Meeke to stay at the expense of some other driver?
Example Tidemand will not get a place in 2019 cause he stays. Suninen does not get to drive more than few rounds because of this.... or as we have seen this year Breen does not get all rounds?

2. Did Meeke staying in Citroen during first half of 2018 directly contribute to them (possibly) leaving?

[Gordini]

I would ring P Tidemand if I were Citroen boss. Potential in the man!

Or maybe Lucky the Russian, he has top speed, and are starting to finish rallyes.

[satnav]

Lets hope no one else has a crash in a Citroen this year, better just drive round and keep it nice and tidy , we don't want anyone having a crash trying to get those vital few seconds that could lift you up the leaderboard.

[janvanvurpa]

I don't know..I read this:
some of which were particularly heavy and could have had serious consequences with regard to the crew’s safety, and given that the risks involved were unjustified by the sporting stakes at play,

And it seems pretty reasonable...

And as much as deify his early mentor McRae as beyond any and all criticism one reason I had little respect for him was he also crashed many times when the risks involved were unjustified by the sporting stakes at play

I have seen factory riders in my old sport leading home World Championship, a clear win in the bag, crash into the back of a guy he was lapping, crash into him when there was no other traffic, no pressure from the man in 2nd, sandy surface with at least 4 other clear lines..I was standing by the Team manager..You could hear his teeth crack.. That rider was dropped the following year.. I know the guy and he just kept swearing about the rider he rammed. Years later.

I knew 2 importer supported "works" riders who were playing on little Honda mini-bikes who both crashed stupidly and one injured a knee he already had chronic problems..Both dropped.. "Their job is to win nationals, they can't do that with casts on their legs, they didn't do what they were paid to do"

Another, Willi Bauer, factory rider in 250 World Championship..Hired to win and generate positive press.. He won the title but on points, and didn't win an individual Grand Prix the entire season...Dropped..(and tragically crashed and was paralyzed the following year.)

These are just firings that I know and people I know...

Who knows what has gone on behind the scenes?

[KKS]

Though it was a very bad incident, there weren't any pictures. These days with social media its pictures that go around the world. Pictures like...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdlMqxNU8AAsNYP.jpg

The fact the driver was ok and saved by the car isnt seen, it just looks like 'Citroen's crash and then look like this ...'
My comment was about "if any spectators was hurt - it was destroyed a brand". Spectator was dead after Huyndais out and they didn't have a destroyed brand after that.

[the sniper]

Does this news give anyone else the impression that Citroen are actually staying in the WRC beyond 2018? To me, if they were finishing at the end of the season, they'd have just kept Meeke. Dropping him now could be with the intention that they use the rest of this season (a write off anyway Championship wise) to prepare for next year. Alternatively of course, they maybe just literally can't afford the amount of damage/write-offs Meeke could cause in the remaining seven rounds in his current form, with their budget situation.

I don't buy into the theory that Meeke crashing was bad publicity for Citroen cars. Was McRae crashing in the 90s considered bad publicity for Subaru/Ford/Martini? He created some of the most iconic imagery and biggest publicity in rallying, or even motorsport history! Though obviously not to the same extent, Meeke's antics, his 'win or bust' style have brought in plenty of publicity. Look at Mexico 2017. Can anyone honestly envisage Mads putting in any kind of performance, good or bad, this year that'll be overly noticeable? What would be better publicity wise, Meeke possibly winning one or two of the remaining rounds, while crashing out of the rest, or Mads finishing 5th in every rally...?

The safety argument seems like a hollow one to me, an excuse to make it look like the team are saving him rather than shafting him... You can't vaunt how safe the car is and then drop him because it's not safe for him to continue in it.

Going forward, it's hard to see where they go from here, with Loeb still insisting that he won't come back full time. There are few overly attractive alternative options at this time, which makes the untimely (though eventually inevitable) dropping of Meeke more surprising. I think if I were Budar, I'd be looking to sign up Suninen for next year, as he at least has bit of a mix of some WRC experience and future potential. If Lefebvre ends up back in the car we've got to assume that they're not taking the WRC seriously anymore...

[EstWRC]

i would really love to see Kris in another car, in m-sport for example, how would he do there?...if he still would crash, well then....


Mads sayin in norwgian media that the team has contacted him and they are talking things through.

[[WRCRR]]

Though it was a very bad incident, there weren't any pictures. These days with social media its pictures that go around the world. Pictures like...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdlMqxNU8AAsNYP.jpg

The fact the driver was ok and saved by the car isnt seen, it just looks like 'Citroen's crash and then look like this ...'

What are you on about, the Paddon Monte 17 crash was everywhere in social media, with plenty of pictures and video (unfortunately), and "these days" - it was 1.5 years ago not in the 90's!

[wrc2017]

PR fuckup for Citroen.
For Meeke, he couldn't pick where he went off. He did nothing worse than Paddon, Ogier, Latvala etc,, on that rally. It just so happened a tree was there.
If you really analysis Meeke performances.. he has had a combination of bad luck, undriveable car, which caused accidents, and some badly timed mistakes of his own. He was trying to tell the engineers that was something fundamental wrong with the car, but it wasnt his job to find out what it was. It took Mikkelson saga, and Loeb test to validate Meeke.
The management are still stuck in the Loeb era, but not with the budget, its a fraction of what they were spending during that era.
Loeb came in with nothing to loose, and was thowing the kitchen table at it, went off trying, and was getting trounced by a novice Fin driving a Toyota, in Corsica.
That tells your where they are with the C3
The only thing they had up their sleeve, was odd win of tarmac, now even that chance has gone.
The car was a still away behind in development, and this latest geometry upgrade, only has given them a base to work from, where they should have been 18 months ago .
The suspension, or lack thereof, make the car susceptible to punctures... count the number of punctures Citroen Racing drivers have had this year, vs other team
Citroen will only be a privateer team next year, i'll 99% guarantee it, with Juoki drivers or rich kids.
to be honest, I think Meeke comes out of this in a better light that Citroen
I'd love to see Meeke in GB or Finland in a Toyota........

[Allez Andruet]

PR fuckup for Citroen.
For Meeke, he couldn't pick where he went off. He did nothing worse than Paddon, Ogier, Latvala etc,, on that rally. It just so happened a tree was there.
If you really analysis Meeke performances.. he has had a combination of bad luck, undriveable car, which caused accidents, and some badly timed mistakes of his own. He was trying to tell the engineers that was something fundamental wrong with the car, but it wasnt his job to find out what it was. It took Mikkelson saga, and Loeb test to validate Meeke.
The management are still stuck in the Loeb era, but not with the budget, its a fraction of what they were spending during that era.
Or to put it in other words: Meeke had a chance of a lifetime with the C3 and he blew it. Getting sacked doesn't mean you're bad at your job, but that you have failed to match the expectations. And that's exactly what Meeke did. I don't think there's denying that. And ofcourse there's always more to the story, I hope everyone understands it's not only about Meeke. Sure Citroen WRT and its management has made poor decisions as well, but as has been said before, something obviously had to be done and Meeke, with his performances, basically offered himself to be sacrificed. And for that there's only Kris himself to blame.

[René]

Even with the greatest possible empathy and respect for Chris Meeke, a decision became imperative. What would be the reactions if a fatal outcome had occurred? It's sad, but the last images of Portugal were scary. Best for Chris and Paul, especially alive.

[wrc2017]

Or to put it in other words: Meeke had a chance of a lifetime with the C3 and he blew it. Getting sacked doesn't mean you're bad at your job, but that you have failed to match the expectations. And that's exactly what Meeke did. I don't think there's denying that. And ofcourse there's always more to the story, I hope everyone understands it's not only about Meeke. Sure Citroen WRT and its management has made poor decisions as well, but as has been said before, something obviously had to be done and Meeke, with his performances, basically offered himself to be sacrificed. And for that there's only Kris himself to blame.

maybe.. but i failed to see anyone else doing any better.

Mikkelson, Otsberg, Breen.. or even Loeb... failed (hard facts it Meeke outscored Loeb over his tow outings, while trying to keep in championship contention)
No other top level driver in the their right mind, would now want to drive a Citroen....
#1 because the car is below par
#2 the management

What will probably go down in WRC history, its that Meeke was the only one to win in a C3 WRC.

[Franky]

I think everyone agrees that:
a) Meeke had it coming
b) Citroen is in a bit of a PR nightmare with their timing

Also that no one expected Meeke to be sacked now. Maybe during the mid-summer break would had been better for the team.

[Sub_Skoda]

I'm very sad for Kris. He is a great driver but with a lot of crashes. Pure McRae spirit. Too 90's for Citroën and Pierre Budar. Now, we will not hear something about Citroën in WRC with their "awesome" line-up.
And also, Loeb will not return for a full champ: https://www.lemagsportauto.com/entretien-exclusif-sebastien-loeb/32201/

[Allez Andruet]

maybe.. but i failed to see anyone else doing any better.

Mikkelson, Otsberg, Breen.. or even Loeb... failed
That's true, statistically, but none of the mentioned drivers were expected to deliver what Meeke was. That's the difference here.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

TBH although disappointing it’s not surprising.

At some point it’s not just bad luck & you have to review where & why things keep going wrong and learn a lesson.

Given Meeke's response post-event I’m not convinced this was happening.

[bassist]

Kris definitely has the speed, but I think because the C3 was so difficult to drive, he was many times over the limit to compensate. I think the writing has been on the wall for a while, and although Citroens timing is strange i am not surprised by the outcome.
I would like to see Kris in a competitive WRC car, perhaps just to put the record straight, but there are so many younger drivers challenging for seats, I don't think it will happen.
I think Kris has paid the ultimate price for his efforts at Citroen,and maybe his ambition will now not be realised.

[AnttiL]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeBdgBFUQAAwJuo.jpg:large

[Fast Eddie WRC]

;1182818']What are you on about, the Paddon Monte 17 crash was everywhere in social media, with plenty of pictures and video (unfortunately), and "these days" - it was 1.5 years ago not in the 90's!

There is basically one picture of Paddon's undamaged car on its side in the dark. That wasnt going to be something that everyone would share.

[mknight]

That's true, statistically, but none of the mentioned drivers were expected to deliver what Meeke was. That's the difference here.

Actually it is not fully true. (apart from the fact that there is no Mikkelson or Otsberg in WRC)

Breen has better result this year than Meeke (2nd vs 3rd).
Mikkelsen beat Meeke on both rallies where they raced together (Sardinia - even snail pace was enough to get points and beat Meeks crash, Germany he got second, Meeke got nothing due to crash again + technical, but this time Mikkelsen was also faster than him in 9 out of 13 stages and led him by over a minute in driving time).

Loeb was ahead of Meeke both times when he had puncture and off and beat him on both PS. "Loeb was getting beaten by Lappi in Corsica", he was on Saturday and Sunday + PS, but so was everyone else! Ohh and Lappi crashed causing a puncture in the process ;)

Østberg again beat Meeke on both rallies they raced together in same car (was a lot due to circumstances yes)

--------------
If anything, the 2nd places of Breen + Mikkelsen and Loeb's speed had debunked the idea that "only Meeke can drive C3 fast".
Yes only Meeke did win with it. 2 times in 18 rallies, Mikkelsen drove 3, Loeb and Østberg 2, Breen 14 but before C3 his best results was a single 3rd place.

-----------------
Everyone understands that the crash in Portugal was really just the last drop/excuse for Citroen leadership.

However, there was a major difference compared with Ogier, Latvala, Tanak or Paddon. Those guys crashed when they were in real fights, 2 of them while leading the rally.

Meeke crashed when he was 40s behind Østberg and getting beaten by him in stagetimes (Lappi's penalty was registered first on Sunday). At that point he had nothing to fight for and the crash was completely unnecessary.

[bandit12]

Fck. I Like Meeke, colourful guy. Wrc is not the same without him.

[wrc2017]

Actually it is not fully true. (apart from the fact that there is no Mikkelson or Otsberg in WRC)

Breen has better result this year than Meeke (2nd vs 3rd).
Mikkelsen beat Meeke on both rallies where they raced together (Sardinia - even snail pace was enough to get points and beat Meeks crash, Germany he got second, Meeke got nothing due to crash again + technical, but this time Mikkelsen was also faster than him in 9 out of 13 stages and led him by over a minute in driving time).

Loeb was ahead of Meeke both times when he had puncture and off and beat him on both PS. "Loeb was getting beaten by Lappi in Corsica", he was on Saturday and Sunday + PS, but so was everyone else! Ohh and Lappi crashed causing a puncture in the process ;)

Østberg again beat Meeke on both rallies they raced together in same car (was a lot due to circumstances yes)

--------------
If anything, the 2nd places of Breen + Mikkelsen and Loeb's speed had debunked the idea that "only Meeke can drive C3 fast".
Yes only Meeke did win with it. 2 times in 18 rallies, Mikkelsen drove 3, Loeb and Østberg 2, Breen 14 but before C3 his best results was a single 3rd place.

-----------------
Everyone understands that the crash in Portugal was really just the last drop/excuse for Citroen leadership.

However, there was a major difference compared with Ogier, Latvala, Tanak or Paddon. Those guys crashed when they were in real fights, 2 of them while leading the rally.

Meeke crashed when he was 40s behind Østberg and getting beaten by him in stagetimes (Lappi's penalty was registered first on Sunday). At that point he had nothing to fight for and the crash was completely unnecessary.

you always find a way to twist facts to suit your armchair opinion.

speak to any driver in the wrc and I bet not one of them share your opinion, or twisted logic. you sad little individual.

move on to troll the next driver you dont like.

Meeke will be actually vindicated in the long run and relieved and content he tried his best... and walk away, and let citroen try and swim in the PR cesspit they have created. The stark truth is WRC is a poorer show without him.

[RaunoK]

My comment was about "if any spectators was hurt - it was destroyed a brand". Spectator was dead after Huyndais out and they didn't have a destroyed brand after that.

Paddon's was a freak accident caused by spectator being in a wrong place. You couldn't see it coming. Meeke is constantly crashing out at high speeds, something potentially fatal or with severe injuries have been screaming to happen at one point. If Citroen wouldn't kick Meeke out and he'd cause an accident killing on injuring someone, you'd see headlines saying something like "Why didn't they stop the mad man before?".

If potential serious incident has been on the cards for long time and you do nothing to avoid it, you're partly responsible too. If the incident is something you could not foresee, you'll get much less stick.

[Simmi]

I can't have this about Meeke being a danger to the public etc. Complete and utter shite! Citroen weren't wincing and telling him to slow down when he was in the lead of those rallies. This is most likely a very poorly worded and rationale'd bit of PR to try and explain away a decision from high up in the company. Most likely it's to do with their budget being frittered away by repair bills and new chassis orders.

Personally I got past the point of defending Meeke a while ago. With that many crashes you simply can't just assume your employer won't step in. But some of the reasons being banded about are ridiculous.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Paddon's was a freak accident caused by spectator being in a wrong place. You couldn't see it coming. Meeke is constantly crashing out at high speeds, something potentially fatal or with severe injuries have been screaming to happen at one point. If Citroen wouldn't kick Meeke out and he'd cause an accident killing on injuring someone, you'd see headlines saying something like "Why didn't they stop the mad man before?".

If potential serious incident has been on the cards for long time and you do nothing to avoid it, you're partly responsible too. If the incident is something you could not foresee, you'll get much less stick.

Exactly. And Paddon got sympathy not criticism.

[Allez Andruet]

I can't have this about Meeke being a danger to the public etc. Complete and utter shite!
Press releases are rarely meant to reflect the absolute truth.

[Allez Andruet]

you always find a way to twist facts to suit your armchair opinion.
They're still facts, right?

[er88]

Reckon Daddy Ostberg can part fund a whole season from Sardinia onwards. And there's the financial benefit; drop Meeke and reduce repair costs, and also bring in budget with the replacement driver.

[TWRC]

I can't have this about Meeke being a danger to the public etc. Complete and utter shite! Citroen weren't wincing and telling him to slow down when he was in the lead of those rallies. This is most likely a very poorly worded and rationale'd bit of PR to try and explain away a decision from high up in the company. Most likely it's to do with their budget being frittered away by repair bills and new chassis orders.

Personally I got past the point of defending Meeke a while ago. With that many crashes you simply can't just assume your employer won't step in. But some of the reasons being banded about are ridiculous.
Well, I think the safety part has some truth in it. For Citroen Racing management to wait around and see if Meeke finds a way to have a crash where they get hit at a worse place and get injured (with all the implications of this for Meeke, Nagle, Citroen, etc) might have been too much of a risk after this last incident. Also, we don't know where the decision was made, maybe Abu Dhabi pulled the plug on him, as they give most of the money...

[Franky]

Sorry guys, but all this talk about "safety" is sounding ridiculous on I don't know what scale. If you are near the limit, on the limit or over the limit, you never know what might happen. Dropping someone for safety reasons is like telling not to go out because you might die.

[EstWRC]

longer explanation from Budar https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/136298/citroen-meeke-was-not-under-control

[Allez Andruet]

The massive frustration for me is that things were changing, Pierre Budar has turned things around - no longer are mechanics jumping ship from Citroen - and Meeke had found more consistency this season. Then Portugal happened.

He remains one of the top three fastest rally drivers in the world right now; few can deliver the blinding speed and spellbinding bravery the Dungannon driver can call on. Clearly, that's not enough for Citroen.

It was nice David Evans made the effort and gave us what Budar had to say, but this fanboy-like ending was somewhat unnecessary.

[T16]

It was nice David Evans made the effort and gave us what Budar had to say, but this fanboy-like ending was somewhat unnecessary.

To be fair, it was more balanced than I was expecting from Evans. I thought he worded it like he was saying 'fair enough, Citroen'.
What makes you say he made a fan-boy response?

[cali]

:p
1599
https://twitter.com/SaariJarno/status/999946131646943233

[Allez Andruet]

To be fair, it was more balanced than I was expecting from Evans. I thought he worded it like he was saying 'fair enough, Citroen'.
What makes you say he made a fan-boy response?

Ok, it wasn't THAT bad, but still I find these statements a bit exaggerated and subjective for a news article:

"He remains one of the top three fastest rally drivers in the world right now"

"Meeke had found more consistency this season"

[bandit12]

I can't find news anymore about Citroen telling his drivers to start winning. But there was one on season beginning....

[Tarmop]

Well, he has managed to get to the end more times, is ahead of Latvala points-wise and loses less points to a man losing more points to the current leader and considered in the game for the title. But yes, still expensive offs and last in the manu. championship is quite the same story as it was last year.

[BigWorm]

I can't find news anymore about Citroen telling his drivers to start winning. But there was one on season beginning....

They also told Breen and Lefebvre to take more risks at the end of last season.

[dimviii]

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_05_2018/post-3242-0-83705100-1527253636.png

[mknight]

Budar points out two reasons which I and others also mentioned before:

1. Crashing when there is no pressure.
He lists in detail how there was no pressure in Portugal and also mentions Mexico this year. There are numerous other examples of that (Argentina last year). That is something else than fighting for win/positions.

2. Note he specifically mentions "crashes since 2014" Cause he has been like that also with DS3, even to the point when he was threatened by Matton.

Reading between the lines it looks like PSA+Citroen leadership made the decision as also people here assume.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ok, it wasn't THAT bad, but still I find these statements a bit exaggerated and subjective for a news article:

"He remains one of the top three fastest rally drivers in the world right now"

"Meeke had found more consistency this season"

Precisely
a) top three fastest drivers?, so he is faster than one of Ogier, Neuville, Tanak right now? Top 5-6 sure.
b) major offs in Sweden, Mexico, Corsica, Portugal. (+Argentina puncture)

One other thing in his comment:



I'm a big fan of the big-hearted Meeke approach. Always have been and always will be. He's a fighter and - five times for Citroen - he's beaten the world and been a winner.


He is pointing out event wins as the main achievement. Sure they create publicity, specially in the short term, but it's still a championship so being a champion is what counts. In championship his best placement is 5th, behind his own teammate Østberg, in 2015.

==========================

It's this fanboyism that I simply don't get with Meeke. Sure he seems like a nice guy, but so does Latvala, Tanak or Paddon, all of them get quite a lot of criticism both here and elsewhere when they mess up. Even Evans and Breen get criticized much more and they are also from UK/Ireland.

Meeke's fans are on completely different level.

[mknight]

They also told Breen and Lefebvre to take more risks at the end of last season.

This was before Australia. Ended up with all 3 crashing.

[Rally Power]

It was nice David Evans made the effort and gave us what Budar had to say, but this fanboy-like ending was somewhat unnecessary.

Despite that final remark, the piece is probably more objective than anything Evans has previously wrote on Meeke; considering the moment, he deserves to be praised for that.

Nothing much to say on Budar words; the guy is mostly right and for sure it wasn’t easy for him to take this decision.

[N.O.T]

the main reason shitroen are getting all this is because of the timing not because of the decision, Meeke always was like that since his c2 days, they thought he was going to change his approach in his mid 30s ? When you have a driver like that you either wait to let him go at the end of the season or you do not start with him in the first place.

Another thing is the way that the announcement was made, they totally blamed everything on him like he was some dog full of fleas that they had to put down... you do not treat your driver that handed your ONLY wins with that crap car like that...

good riddance tot hat sorry excuse of a team at the end of the season.

[shaitan]

Matton have done a really stupid thing to bring meeke in.

When we look back several years there are no place for meeke anymore and meeke never change his approach but crash or win.

Citroen have done stupid thing since 2012 when they kick off Ogier to remain Seb.

Dump meeke is the same thing happened for Seb in his last WTCC season but why British fan boy can not complain more in that time?

[the sniper]

Dump meeke is the same thing happened for Seb in his last WTCC season but why British fan boy can not complain more in that time?

Are you kidding? Who gave a damn about the WTCC at that time? Not even touring car fans cared much about the going on's in the WTCC by then, let alone British rally fans... :rolleyes:

[Norm75]

In both cases, Meeke and the touring car Loeb episode, just shows the psa group to be as inconsistent as the handling of the c3.
Yes, I'm a Brit and yes I'm a meeke fan. To be honest, I thought his days in shitroen were probably numbered at the end of the season, unless he had a run of good results.

He has had more than his share of bad luck, usually when fighting for the win or podium position. I think frustration has always got the better of him, which is why we see the crashes in the lower positions on the leaderboard.
Given the way the team has been run, I think any driver in his position would feel added pressure, only running two cars on certain events, possibility of being dropped willy nilly, results led decision on remaining in the championship next year etc.

As for Kris being top three fastest drivers, I believe given the right tools it's certainly a possibility. 2016 was probably the only year where he had no pressure, in a car that development had stopped, was really the only serious challenger to Ogier, winning rallies and taken out of a couple while fighting for the lead, by some unfortunately placed rocks on the racing line.

I would like to see him in a fiesta, probably a better bet than Elfyn. Unfortunately age is against him so this will not become a reality I doubt.

[BigWorm]

In both cases, Meeke and the touring car Loeb episode, just shows the psa group to be as inconsistent as the handling of the c3.
Yes, I'm a Brit and yes I'm a meeke fan. To be honest, I thought his days in shitroen were probably numbered at the end of the season, unless he had a run of good results.

He has had more than his share of bad luck, usually when fighting for the win or podium position. I think frustration has always got the better of him, which is why we see the crashes in the lower positions on the leaderboard.
Given the way the team has been run, I think any driver in his position would feel added pressure, only running two cars on certain events, possibility of being dropped willy nilly, results led decision on remaining in the championship next year etc.

As for Kris being top three fastest drivers, I believe given the right tools it's certainly a possibility. 2016 was probably the only year where he had no pressure, in a car that development had stopped, was really the only serious challenger to Ogier, winning rallies and taken out of a couple while fighting for the lead, by some unfortunately placed rocks on the racing line.

I would like to see him in a fiesta, probably a better bet than Elfyn. Unfortunately age is against him so this will not become a reality I doubt.

I think this is true, he can produce fast stage times and when the pressure was off him in 2016 he looked better than ever. But that also shows that when the pressure is on he falters. When you're contracted for a full season there's always at least a slight amount of pressure that you need to deliver for the sake of a championship, be it manu or drivers. Meeke himself said before Monte that everyone wants to win the championship, to do that as a driver you have to cope.

Sure the C3 is not state of the art, but that doesn't excuse him to bin it in the side of the road whenever it's not working as good as the other cars. He's a very brave man to push those limits, which is admirable, but he's also not very measured in his approach which hinders his potential success. By judging his history that won't change.

[er88]

I'd say Meeke is in the top 4 in terms of being the fastest driver. Can you really argue?!

Ogier, Neuville, Tanak and Meeke.

Mikkelsen is proving in Hyundai what we already knew from years at VW, he's not top level in terms of raw pace. Jari has regressed and Lappi isn't there yet - give it time though.

Regardless, fastest driver doesn't mean best overall. That's always been Meeke's problem

[Norm75]

Very good point Bigworm, and difficult to argue against that. Just thought that if he went to Msport, provided Ogier was still there, being a number two driver may mean less pressure, and a car that maybe doesn't need overdriving so much.

Let's not kid ourselves that the c3 is completely fixed. Loeb went well in it but still binned it, and Breen got 2nd in Sweden, with favourable road position, by admitted to chucking it into corners, not knowing if it would stick, and being surprised that it did.

[BigWorm]

I'd say Meeke is in the top 4 in terms of being the fastest driver. Can you really argue?!

Ogier, Neuville, Tanak and Meeke.

Mikkelsen is proving in Hyundai what we already knew from years at VW, he's not top level in terms of raw pace. Jari has regressed and Lappi isn't there yet - give it time though.

Regardless, fastest driver doesn't mean best overall. That's always been Meeke's problem

And that's a really nice prospect, 4 different drivers competing for the title in 4 different cars. In stead it's down to 3.

[denkimi]

perhaps meeke can go to rallycross, i think he can do really well there.

[Essaj]

perhaps meeke can go to rallycross, i think he can do really well there.

Fia rx instagram page actually commented to Meeke something like "Let's keep in touch" or something along those lines, maybe he can find drive there unless M-sport aint interested.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Sadly for all the great moments of...

http://cdn.sport-auto.ch/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/20170122248AL.jpg

There were at least 5 or 6 times as many...

https://steemitimages.com/0x0/https://i.imgur.com/R2k7xrF.jpg

[spiderem]

I think this is true, he can produce fast stage times and when the pressure was off him in 2016 he looked better than ever. But that also shows that when the pressure is on he falters. When you're contracted for a full season there's always at least a slight amount of pressure that you need to deliver for the sake of a championship, be it manu or drivers. Meeke himself said before Monte that everyone wants to win the championship, to do that as a driver you have to cope.

Sure the C3 is not state of the art, but that doesn't excuse him to bin it in the side of the road whenever it's not working as good as the other cars. He's a very brave man to push those limits, which is admirable, but he's also not very measured in his approach which hinders his potential success. By judging his history that won't change.

Don't underestimate his wins in 2016 were mainly thanks to good road position...

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

perhaps meeke can go to rallycross, i think he can do really well there.With Megane RX..

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

[danon]

Kris Meeke crashes compilation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=mtu7I8iH5Ks

[AndyRAC]

Citroen are going nowhere fast; completely inept management. Do us all a favour and pull the plug at the end of the year.

However, I'd like to know what happened their budget compared to previous WRC programmes; they seem to be run on a shoestring budget, with added AbuDhabi backing. Have the board gone cold on a WRC programme? And to be honest, I don't know what they get out of their WRC effort. Their road cars are hardly inspiring, are they?

[mknight]

However, I'd like to know what happened their budget compared to previous WRC programmes; they seem to be run on a shoestring budget, with added AbuDhabi backing. Have the board gone cold on a WRC programme? And to be honest, I don't know what they get out of their WRC effort. Their road cars are hardly inspiring, are they?

There was a comparison of testing kms before the start of 2017 season where citroen had like 50% more than Hyundai which again had much more than the next team. That must have cost quite a lot of money (even with not participating in 2016 season).

But judging by Al Quassimi comments it might be that emirates money got turned down quite a bit after their performance at the start of 2017.

[mknight]

Anyway in terms of Meeke's exit at Citroen I believe there is not much more/different to say from anyone.

So where do both go from here:

Citroen

I guess most agree that Breen should drive all rallies. Østberg will likely drive some, probably in (semi)-paying mode.

But who else?
- nobody/money driver. No car is possible, money driver is imo not very likely, Østberg and maybe Al Quassimi will do that.
- Paddon or Sordo on events they don't start. I don't really think so, maybe Hyundai won't allow them. Also Paddon has (seemingly) most of his events ahead of him. Sordo is doing well this year so he maybe has no motivation
- some young driver to "test out", if they plan on staying next year (or at least Budar wants to try it) this is possible. But not many good candidates to pick. Skoda might not let Tidemand. Of the French guys I'd rather see Camilli again than Lefevbre.


Meeke
I can see him in a Fiesta on 2? events. Don't remember Suninens exact program, but I don't think it says anywhere he needs to be factory nominated. So Meeke could be used by Malcolm as a joker in manu/drivers title.
This would imo be good for all sides and for spectators and Meeke prbly needs this if he has hopes for drive in 2019.

[dimviii]

i can understand Citroens decision,but dont like it.
Dont like it because Meeke is one to watch at wrc,for good and bad reasons.
Yes he didnt manage to deliver,but he didnt helped from his team to deliver.
I dont believe that any other driver would manage good results at c3.
Impossible for any driver to deliver good results,when team after one year, had to call Loeb to justify the c3 problems.
There is no such example at wrc.
Citroen isnt the same team that won everything at last decade.
Strange decisions,less budget,not good drivers choices.
While Meeke is probably paid for rest of season,they preffered to fire him,than to enter him at wrc2 with c3 r5.
They will still try with Lefebvre to beat the official skodas(lol)
after the ''problematic'' ds3,they build a new car,and demonstrate it against the king championship winning fabia,with 1 crew against 2 crews of skoda.The starnge decisions i talked.
Will be surprised anybody if they fail?
This game you have to spent money to play.If you cant afford ,you just dont play.When you do it ,you have to do it right.
You dont ridicule a glorious team with such presentation at world playing level.

Saying that,i dont mean that Meeke hasnt his share at this sideline.Some of his crashes there is no excuse when he hadnt got to push.
Wish him all the best for the future.
i d like to see him at a couple rallies with a prooven car.

[noel157]

Actually it is not fully true. (apart from the fact that there is no Mikkelson or Otsberg in WRC)

Breen has better result this year than Meeke (2nd vs 3rd).
Mikkelsen beat Meeke on both rallies where they raced together (Sardinia - even snail pace was enough to get points and beat Meeks crash, Germany he got second, Meeke got nothing due to crash again + technical, but this time Mikkelsen was also faster than him in 9 out of 13 stages and led him by over a minute in driving time).

Loeb was ahead of Meeke both times when he had puncture and off and beat him on both PS. "Loeb was getting beaten by Lappi in Corsica", he was on Saturday and Sunday + PS, but so was everyone else! Ohh and Lappi crashed causing a puncture in the process ;)

Østberg again beat Meeke on both rallies they raced together in same car (was a lot due to circumstances yes)

--------------
If anything, the 2nd places of Breen + Mikkelsen and Loeb's speed had debunked the idea that "only Meeke can drive C3 fast".
Yes only Meeke did win with it. 2 times in 18 rallies, Mikkelsen drove 3, Loeb and Østberg 2, Breen 14 but before C3 his best results was a single 3rd place.

-----------------
Everyone understands that the crash in Portugal was really just the last drop/excuse for Citroen leadership.

However, there was a major difference compared with Ogier, Latvala, Tanak or Paddon. Those guys crashed when they were in real fights, 2 of them while leading the rally.

Meeke crashed when he was 40s behind Østberg and getting beaten by him in stagetimes (Lappi's penalty was registered first on Sunday). At that point he had nothing to fight for and the crash was completely unnecessary.

In all my many years following this sport, indeed any sport, I have never, ever come across anybody who has such a festering, obsessive dislike for a person in our sport as MKnight has for Meeke. You are not a rally fan, you are not a sports fan, frankly I don't know what you are other than some self righteous and obnoxious troll that spends endless hours on eWRC compiling silly little lists trying and failing to justify your ego driven, odious little tirades that you post on what seems a daily basis.
This post is not about me or anybody else being a fan of Meeke. Kris Meeke is a human being, he has a wife, children, a brother and a father. How would you feel if somebody launched constant disparaging tirades of criticism at a member of your family in the manner that you do? This is a public forum and you, whoever you are, should be utterly ashamed of yourself.
We all have negative opinions on drivers at times but unlike you and one or two of your acolytes we don't make it a part time career.

[seb_sh]

I don't know why this debate is going on, I think Budar's clarification made it clear enough why he was dropped. It makes sense either way, if Citroen doesn't continue they probably don't need the extra repair bills and a win or two won't matter and if they do continue the plan to have Meeke as lead driver isn't working out so they can try to focus on others.

[Sulland]

Maybe it had been a good idea to let him drive the R5, then it for sure had been tested good. But I guess he did not want to.

To focus more forward, I still feel the best of the rest, is Mr Tidemand. Would be perfect practice for him before Skoda in 2020.
Paddon is also a good candidate.

[AnttiL]

I think Citroen truly wants either Seb full time, and dropping the lead driver is a part of the plan

[noel157]

I think Citroen truly wants either Seb full time, and dropping the lead driver is a part of the plan

But does Loeb want Citroen?

[mknight]

In all my many years following this sport, indeed any sport, I have never, ever come across anybody who has such a festering, obsessive dislike for a person in our sport as MKnight has for Meeke. You are not a rally fan, you are not a sports fan, frankly I don't know what you are other than some self righteous and obnoxious troll that spends endless hours on eWRC compiling silly little lists trying and failing to justify your ego driven, odious little tirades that you post on what seems a daily basis.
This post is not about me or anybody else being a fan of Meeke. Kris Meeke is a human being, he has a wife, children, a brother and a father. How would you feel if somebody launched constant disparaging tirades of criticism at a member of your family in the manner that you do? This is a public forum and you, whoever you are, should be utterly ashamed of yourself.
We all have negative opinions on drivers at times but unlike you and one or two of your acolytes we don't make it a part time career.

My post you just quoted was a response to godlike worship which stated how Meeke "beat these all" in C3.

I do respond to fanboy godlike-worship with facts, and give credit when due. Check out my praises of Meeke after Catalunya and GB last year and after Monte this year. I have nothing against Meeke and I don't launch into any "tirades" against him. I wish him luck in his career and hope we see him (prbly in Fiesta) soon.

Unlikely quite many forum members I write long arguments instead of one liners about "village teams, nobodys etc." For some reason this results in some fans responding with personal attacks.

[olemann]

I'm very sorry not to see Meeke more in WRC this year. He was an honest person and you felt he was honest when he stated. I'm going to miss him as one of the rally aristocrats.
I hope to see him back in the WRC where he belongs.

[bassist]

Kris Meeke crashes compilation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=mtu7I8iH5Ks

Mmmmm, food for thought !

[N.O.T]

I think Citroen truly wants either Seb full time, and dropping the lead driver is a part of the plan

lol...

[Norm75]

lol...

Indeed. Ridiculous theory, Kris wasn't contracted for next year (not that contract seems worth the paper) so dropping him now would have no bearing.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Listen carefully at 8 minutes to Luis Moya's thoughts about Kris Meeke. Note this was recorded prior to Stage 13 on Saturday during Rally Portugal and aired live on Redbull TV
Premonition or Crystal Ball or just words of an Experienced Team Manager

https://www.redbull.tv/video/AP-1U6BJVT451W11/super-stage-13-portugal

[denkimi]

i remember that there's a video of meek crashing a few years ago, in which he then says to paul nagle: "that's the end of my career".
does anyone know what rally that was? i can't seem to find it.

[EightGear]

i remember that there's a video of meek crashing a few years ago, in which he then says to paul nagle: "that's the end of my career".
does anyone know what rally that was? i can't seem to find it.Portugal 15 or 16 maybe?

[TWRC]

i remember that there's a video of meek crashing a few years ago, in which he then says to paul nagle: "that's the end of my career".
does anyone know what rally that was? i can't seem to find it.
I think that was 2014, and maybe Portugal?

[Franky]

I think that was 2014, and maybe Portugal?

Correct - https://youtu.be/EA163aRuIFY?t=1m57s

[Rally Power]

Surprised with Clark thoughts on Meeke situation; he managed to be quite objective and fair. Well done.
https://youtu.be/a9P6SHhnyBk

[BigWorm]

Surprised with Clark thoughts on Meeke situation; he managed to be totally objective and fair. Well done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=554&v=a9P6SHhnyBk

He does however cite Meeke as the second best Citroën driver in terms of win, but I think Ogier won more in a Citroën than Meeke.

Other than that, a part from a little bias here and there, some decent thoughts by CC.

[TWRC]

He does however cite Meeke as the second best Citroën driver in terms of win, but I think Ogier won more in a Citroën than Meeke.

Other than that, a part from a little bias here and there, some decent thoughts by CC.
Yes, Ogier in 2011 alone had as many wins as Meeke have got so far. So counting in his 2010 wins, he has more.

[racerx1979]

Listen carefully at 8 minutes to Luis Moya's thoughts about Kris Meeke. Note this was recorded prior to Stage 13 on Saturday during Rally Portugal and aired live on Redbull TV
Premonition or Crystal Ball or just words of an Experienced Team Manager

https://www.redbull.tv/video/AP-1U6BJVT451W11/super-stage-13-portugal

Moya probably knew that one more crash and Meeke was out.

[itix]

Like Porter I believe that this is indeed from above Budar's head. Likely Jackson or someone else from top management.

Kris had crashed more times than he had started rallies at the midpoint of last season.

Malcolm fired Tänak after one season so I'm frankly amazed that Citroen put up with Kris for 4 whole seasons.

Call me crazy, but I think Citroen should give Lukyanuk a go. Maybe he'll crash, in which case he can't be worse, maybe he'll stay on the road as he has done the last couple of competitions, and produce some amazing driving.

[N.O.T]

Like Porter I believe that this is indeed from above Budar's head. Likely Jackson or someone else from top management.

Kris had crashed more times than he had started rallies at the midpoint of last season.

Malcolm fired Tänak after one season so I'm frankly amazed that Citroen put up with Kris for 4 whole seasons.

Call me crazy, but I think Citroen should give Lukyanuk a go. Maybe he'll crash, in which case he can't be worse, maybe he'll stay on the road as he has done the last couple of competitions, and produce some amazing driving.

Agree with Luky, the sport lost a fast guy and someone who was known in the public to offer good tv action.... i think giving a chance to luky is a wise choice.

[danon]

... Call me crazy, but I think Citroen should give Lukyanuk a go....

https://images.summitmedia-digital.com/preview/images/articles/2015/10/06/americanapparel/nm-american-apparel.gif

[stefanvv]

Call me crazy, but I think Citroen should give Lukyanuk a go. Maybe he'll crash, in which case he can't be worse, maybe he'll stay on the road as he has done the last couple of competitions, and produce some amazing driving.

You are as crazy as the Russian. But I like Your way of thinking. Give this man a WR car, I'm afraid he might fall asleep at some stage in this year ER championship.

[denkimi]

Call me crazy, but I think Citroen should give Lukyanuk a go. Maybe he'll crash, in which case he can't be worse, maybe he'll stay on the road as he has done the last couple of competitions, and produce some amazing driving.
You are crazy. He will either crash as much as meeke, or he'll be slower than ostberg.

But perhaps i'm wrong and he turns out to be a fast and reliable driver. We will never know unless someone gives him the chance.

[itix]

Yes give the drive to a man involved in a fatal testing accident they should be able to square that with their safety first approach. Oh and why not give the other car to Novikov. He got Citroen more youtube hits than just about anyone nearly back flipping a C4 in Finland.It's funny you should mention Novikov. I wondered what happened to him a few days ago so I checked. He has been gone completely from rally except for one masters show somewhere. Probably slaving away at some gulag these days to repay his sponsors.

Luky is a likable guy though. He does seem to be a bit more steady in recent years (although we said that about Meeke too). You never know until you try him out. I never said to give him a full year contract. Draft him in for three rallies and see how he does...

[AnttiL]

It's funny you should mention Novikov. I wondered what happened to him a few days ago so I checked. He has been gone completely from rally except for one masters show somewhere. Probably slaving away at some gulag these days to repay his sponsors.

Doing some co-driving https://www.ewrc-results.com/coprofile/18726-evgeniy-novikov/

[itix]

Doing some co-driving https://www.ewrc-results.com/coprofile/18726-evgeniy-novikov/Huh... Forgot to check the co-driver page. Well, thanks. Enough said about that now, let's not change the subject :)

[mknight]

Suggesting Lukyanuk is nuts.

- Leadership above Budar kicked Meeke due to crashing and "danger", so now he should go to them and suggest "this guy from Russia who often has high-speed crashes and was recently in a deadly accident"

Ignoring this "minor" issue lets look on the performance side:

- Lukyanuk simply does not have experience on the rallies that are driven in WRC, that's quite important, despite his age just about all of them will be completely new to him. Even in this era of onboard-watching it's still a disadvantage

- The few times he did WRC rallies against WRC2 pilots (Sweden 2017, GB before), he was 5-6 in term of speed, clearly behind Tidemand, Sunninen, Camilli etc. Don't see how switching to WRC will suddenly make him faster than them.

[Rallyper]

Why not Meeke in a third MSport Fiesta WRC or even R5, rest of the season?

At least Malcolm could try him in Finland :) and Rally GB.

[Tarmop]

Oh yes, he wants to spend that money...

[Allez Andruet]

Btw, we don't even know whether Meeke is allowed to compete in WRC with any other manufacturer this season. Who knows, if the contract hasn't been terminated, Citroen can probably force him to "sit out" the rest of the season - IF they would want to do that in the first place.

For Finland for example, it would be a bit strange if the winner of 2016 edition won't be there in 2018 (nor last year's third...).

[tommeke_B]

Didn't Meeke have it in his contract that he would drive all of the WRC events? If so, it's Citroën breaking up the contract and he's probably free to do whatever he wants.

[Allez Andruet]

Didn't Meeke have it in his contract that he would drive all of the WRC events? If so, it's Citroën breaking up the contract and he's probably free to do whatever he wants.

Not that simple. There are - I think - various termination clauses in the contract, resulting in different sorts of verdicts (if you wanna call them that). Not giving Meeke a car to drive very likely isn't a breach of contract as such from the Citroen side.

[A FONDO]

i can understand Citroens decision,but dont like it.
Dont like it because Meeke is one to watch at wrc,for good and bad reasons.
Yes he didnt manage to deliver,but he didnt helped from his team to deliver.
I dont believe that any other driver would manage good results at c3.
Impossible for any driver to deliver good results,when team after one year, had to call Loeb to justify the c3 problems.
There is no such example at wrc.
Citroen isnt the same team that won everything at last decade.
Strange decisions,less budget,not good drivers choices.
While Meeke is probably paid for rest of season,they preffered to fire him,than to enter him at wrc2 with c3 r5.
They will still try with Lefebvre to beat the official skodas(lol)
after the ''problematic'' ds3,they build a new car,and demonstrate it against the king championship winning fabia,with 1 crew against 2 crews of skoda.The starnge decisions i talked.
Will be surprised anybody if they fail?
This game you have to spent money to play.If you cant afford ,you just dont play.When you do it ,you have to do it right.
You dont ridicule a glorious team with such presentation at world playing level.

Saying that,i dont mean that Meeke hasnt his share at this sideline.Some of his crashes there is no excuse when he hadnt got to push.
Wish him all the best for the future.
i d like to see him at a couple rallies with a prooven car.
I think Citroen managers have realised that he will inevitably kill someone very soon. They want to skip the negative publicity from it and prevent the complete closure of their WRC involvement.

[ESTR]

Like they care. They care only about their paychecks. If PSA terminate program, Budar and all cream behind him will not get that much bonus anymore.

[Sub_Skoda]

But does Loeb want Citroen?

No: https://www.lemagsportauto.com/entretien-exclusif-sebastien-loeb/32201/

[lluisva555]

Technical note from the last rally of Meeke with Citroën: Two front splitter configuration for the Citroën C3 WRC in the Rally of Portugal 2018

https://wrcwings.wordpress.com/2018/05/23/two-front-splitter-configuration-for-the-citroen-c3-wrc-in-the-rally-of-portugal-2018/

[ESTR]

No: https://www.lemagsportauto.com/entretien-exclusif-sebastien-loeb/32201/

Yes true, he is in great form this year at World RX. Greatest so far. And he has big chance of taking the title. Sure he will not be that stupid to go in crappy car (you all know where this is going) and be 5th at the end with lots of troubles.

[danon]

^
^
https://media.giphy.com/media/YAmTzZOCJnkXe/giphy.gif

[jparker]

Sorry for Meeke's fans, but the evil here is not Citroen.
It's one thing not to to deliver, and completely different not to deliver and destroy so many cars.
Good rally driver should be able to finish more rallies, no matter what car he drives.
Only excuse could be if Citroen deliberately asked Meeke to overdrive the car, which is very unlikely.

[ESTR]

Sorry for Meeke's fans, but the evil here is not Citroen.
It's one thing not to to deliver, and completely different not to deliver and destroy so many cars.
Good rally driver should be able to finish more rallies, no matter what car he drives.
Only excuse could be if Citroen deliberately asked Meeke to overdrive the car, which is very unlikely.

And why the hell they don't "have the money" for testing, permanent 3rd car, for example signing Ogier (despite they wanted him) & Mikkelsen (who was desperate for getting a drive)...

[Rally Power]

No: https://www.lemagsportauto.com/entretien-exclusif-sebastien-loeb/32201/

Loeb didn’t wanted Peugeot at the end of 2015, but he ended there…

With or without Seb (it could be the other one, like Clark suggested), one year to fix the car and reorganize the team is enough; in '19 Citroen must have a full scale top entry and show they still can win the series. Fingers crossed!

[jparker]

And why the hell they don't "have the money" for testing, permanent 3rd car, for example signing Ogier (despite they wanted him) & Mikkelsen (who was desperate for getting a drive)...

Valid points, but they have nothing to do with Meeke's ability to stay on the road.
Normal outcome would have been bad times (like Breen), nothing else.

[jparker]

Loeb didn’t wanted Peugeot at the end of 2015, but he ended there…

With or without Seb (it could be the other one, like Clark suggested), one year to fix the car and reorganize the team is enough; in '19 Citroen must have a full scale top entry and show they still can win the series. Fingers crossed!

I think so. Company like Citroen doesn't quit championships when loosing.

[itix]

And why the hell they don't "have the money" for testing, permanent 3rd car, for example signing Ogier (despite they wanted him) & Mikkelsen (who was desperate for getting a drive)...Because of bad market, budget restraints and not enough sponsorship money. Fairly easy calculations. When PSA find it economically viable to spend lots of money on their team, they will.

[seb_sh]

I don't think budget is the main problem. MSport made due with less. Sure more money wouldn't be bad, but better management, better developed car and a lead driver who doesn't crash two times every rally is really what was missing.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Unless Citroen start to spend proper money, plus sign Ogier for 2019, they dont have a chance to compete.

The other Teams have been doing things properly since 2017 and have better cars and the best driver's signed up.

Citroen - go hard or go home.

[Norm75]

Btw, we don't even know whether Meeke is allowed to compete in WRC with any other manufacturer this season. Who knows, if the contract hasn't been terminated, Citroen can probably force him to "sit out" the rest of the season - IF they would want to do that in the first place.

For Finland for example, it would be a bit strange if the winner of 2016 edition won't be there in 2018 (nor last year's third...).
Given what looks from the outside tight finances for PSA I doubt they would stop him driving for a different manufacturer, and given the fairly bad publicity they have dealt themselves with the manner in which they appear to have fired Kris, stopping him driving for someone else would only create more. No mention of him on their Twitter account now either.
Also, if Kris was contracted to drive the whole of the season, as Matton had publicly stated before, they wouldn't have a leg to stand on. If it went to court it could be argued that PSA were hindering Kris' future employment opportunities and that could get costly.

As for Kris getting an Msport drive this season, well, they have Ogier as number one driver and Evans, Sunninen both podiums in Portugal so I don't see either losing a drive at the minute. As they say, to finish first, first you must finish.

[Mirek]

Unless Citroen start to spend proper money, plus sign Ogier for 2019, they dont have a chance to compete.

Nobody is going to sign Ogier for 2019 as it seems.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Nobody is going to sign Ogier for 2019 as it seems.

Perfect, stay at M-Sport.

[AnttiL]

As for Kris getting an Msport drive this season, well, they have Ogier as number one driver and Evans, Sunninen both podiums in Portugal so I don't see either losing a drive at the minute. As they say, to finish first, first you must finish.

Fourth car with his own sponsors?

[denkimi]

Nobody is going to sign Ogier for 2019 as it seems.
If thats the case, i hope he wins 5 more championships with m-sport.

Any team that doesn't try to sign ogier doesn't deserve to be champion.

[N.O.T]

Any team that doesn't try to sign ogier doesn't deserve to be champion.

why ?

[ESTR]

Well some people clearly think that he is the only one that should win the titles. Others are there just for messing around... Any team and any driver deserve to be a champion, if it's by hard work or unluck by others. As long as they are there they have a chance.

[Rally Power]

Fourth car with his own sponsors?

Wilson had many chances in the past to get Meeke but a deal was never made; hard to believe it'd would be different this time. What about Toyota? In 2015 Makinen was interested in Meeke, but he refused (signing more 3 years with Citroen). Meeke on a Yaris would be amazing!

Btw, who’s (if there’s any) Meeke manager?

[denkimi]

why ?
Because he is the best rally driver in the world. Any team that seriously wants to become champion should try everything they can to hire him.

[N.O.T]

Because he is the best rally driver in the world. Any team that seriously wants to become champion should try everything they can to hire him.

lol... wake up kid.

[stefanvv]

Because he is the best rally driver in the world. Any team that seriously wants to become champion should try everything they can to hire him.

Yes, You're right, last 10 years or so he is the best driver around, soon this might change, but probably not.

[N.O.T]

Yes, You're right, last 10 years or so he is the best driver around, soon this might change, but probably not.

10 years ago was 2008... LOL.

Ogiers first title was in 2013...

Did you skip math at school ?

[stefanvv]

I don't think so. I have university degree in Mathematics. I skipped only the first year when I was studying Physics and Mathematics.

[N.O.T]

I don't think so. I have university degree in Mathematics. I skipped only the first year when I was studying Physics and Mathematics.

That information makes what you said previously even more ridiculous...

[Mirek]

If thats the case, i hope he wins 5 more championships with m-sport.

Any team that doesn't try to sign ogier doesn't deserve to be champion.

I think You didn't get the point. Let's see if Ogier even continues next year. I don't bet on that.

[mknight]

I think You didn't get the point. Let's see if Ogier even continues next year. I don't bet on that.

Imo one of his (remaining) motivation points was to "beat" Loeb, but not necessarily in number of titles. You could clearly see how his motivation in Mexico went up 300% when Loeb was ahead after Friday.

He has already won titles with different manufacturers unlike Loeb and this year he has beaten Loeb directly in 2 rallies (in Mexico Loeb got puncture just as Ogier was closing on him and in Corsica Loeb crashed from behind Ogier).

So if he also beats Loeb in Catalunya and gets a new title. It's quite possible he'll leave.

On the other hand I also think there might be a (very) slim hope of him going to Citroen if Breen/others finish on podium in 1-2 more rallies and Citroen goes in properly. Also considering that Matton is now gone.

[AL14]

Imo one of his (remaining) motivation points was to "beat" Loeb, but not necessarily in number of titles. You could clearly see how his motivation in Mexico went up 300% when Loeb was ahead after Friday.

He has already won titles with different manufacturers unlike Loeb and this year he has beaten Loeb directly in 2 rallies (in Mexico Loeb got puncture just as Ogier was closing on him and in Corsica Loeb crashed from behind Ogier).

So if he also beats Loeb in Catalunya and gets a new title. It's quite possible he'll leave.

On the other hand I also think there might be a (very) slim hope of him going to Citroen if Breen/others finish on podium in 1-2 more rallies and Citroen goes in properly. Also considering that Matton is now gone.

You're not considering the amount of millions he gets every year if he drives.
Imo if he will stop it will not be because of his choice but because other will not sign him.

I wonder why nobody would do that btw, Mirek what makes you think nobody wants to sign him?

[Tarmop]

And why should he want to leave M-Sport? Seems to be performing quite well. Money...well, i believe he has it already, he can use part of it to make it grow in an easier way. Family life and risk vs motivation to compete and be the best is another subject.

[Mirek]

I wonder why nobody would do that btw, Mirek what makes you think nobody wants to sign him?

Nothing. I believe he is thinking about to stop himself. Of course I may be wrong.

[mknight]

And why should he want to leave M-Sport? Seems to be performing quite well.

I think he is only half-satisfied with the amount of "factory support" M-Sport has, since he was so vocal about it.

Reason why teams did not sign him in summer 2017:

- his speed during most of 2017 was not impressive at all, no real dominant win, 2017 Monte was after Neuville crashed, 2017 Portugal while better he was still slower than Tanak before Tanak got the issues

=> This, combined with how he refused them at end of 2016 and Tanak being from Estonia made Toyota sign Tanak

- Hyundai had 3 drivers at that point and certainly not enough money to pay Ogier, I guess they got Mikkelsen cheap

- so Citroen was only real option which somehow did not work.

----------------------------------------------
Now going towards Finland (and negotiations time it's quite different):

- both in Mexico and Corsica he has shown he still has the speed

(- Toyota might still not want him since they have Tanak)
- Hyundai can be interested depending how negotiations with Neuville go
- Citroen might be an option again and now the car is seemingly decent on most surfaces

[Rally Power]

So if he also beats Loeb in Catalunya and gets a new title. It's quite possible he'll leave.


No way; if Ogier was really serious about leaving he’d have done it last year, after proving he can win with any car. Rosberg shocking retirement made him doubt for a while (his own words on a couple of interviews) but it looks he got over it. Most likely he’ll continue at Ford, until the day Mr. Toyoda finally decides to cover him with yens…

[denkimi]

I think You didn't get the point. Let's see if Ogier even continues next year. I don't bet on that.
I don't see why he would quit. He's not that old, he's still the best and he can make millions be doing what he likes.

[dimviii]

He has already won titles with different manufacturers unlike Loeb and this year he has beaten Loeb directly in 2 rallies (in Mexico Loeb got puncture just as Ogier was closing on him and in Corsica Loeb crashed from behind Ogier).

So if he also beats Loeb in Catalunya and gets a new title. It's quite possible he'll leave.
.
so if he beats the retired Loeb 3 times,he is better and has prooved it.
3 wins against a retired champion= equals 4 championships(some against Ogier lololol)

question now
When Loeb beat him at same car/team 20 times, how many Ogiers championships equals that?

[focus206]

I think Ogier's fans are much more obsessed than him about breaking Loeb's record. I think he'll be in the WRC next year but I wouldn't be shocked to see him retire at the end of this season, especially if he wins the title again.

[mknight]

so if he beats the retired Loeb 3 times,he is better and has prooved it.
3 wins against a retired champion= equals 4 championships(some against Ogier lololol)

question now
When Loeb beat him at same car/team 20 times, how many Ogiers championships equals that?

Obviously you are turning things around. Based on Ogier's behavior with Loeb around this year I'd say:

a) he feels he has nothing to prove against "current" drivers
b) he still feels he has something to prove against Loeb

=> Beating Loeb in anything is more worth for him. But Ogier does not look like interested in driving for 10 titles.

But, surprisingly, he can't change past and he can't make Loeb younger when fighting with him now.

-----------------------------------
Also, while catchy 1-line lolz are fun it's not like Ogier left Citroen as a beaten dog, he had same number of wins in his last season there as Loeb. Even with all the "priority" driver arguments and issues including the famous "technical issues" and "deliberate" crashing in GB. Also as some Ogier fans point you, it's even possible to say that Loeb left after 2012 cause he was afraid of Ogier coming in VW.

I am not a very big of either and find it very hard to compare them. If anything i rate Loeb higher because of he improved from 2002 to 2004.Just trying to understand Ogier's motivation.

[dimviii]

Obviously you are turning things around. .
i didnt change something.Just asked a question based at what you wrote.

Based on Ogier's behavior with Loeb around this year I'd say:

a) he feels he has nothing to prove against "current" drivers
b) he still feels he has something to prove against Loeb

=> Beating Loeb in anything is more worth for him. But Ogier does not look like interested in driving for 10 titles.

But, surprisingly, he can't change past and he can't make Loeb younger when fighting with him now.

we cant change past,but very easy we can say for past, that Loeb run away because he scared.

-----------------------------------

, while catchy 1-line lolz are fun it's not like Ogier left Citroen as a beaten dog, he had same number of wins in his last season there as Loeb.
Yes they had same number of wins when Loeb cleaned the road all the year.But now he moans that he is handiccaped and is NOT fair.
Probably it was much more fair when Loeb cleaned,he closed the splits,and he had nothing to loose with manager pushing him.
championships doesnt count wins but points.And he lost,even to Hirvonen who came 2nd this year.



. Even with all the "priority" driver arguments and issues including the famous "technical issues" and "deliberate" crashing in GB.
you forget the hidden splits from Ogier,and the push from the laughable team manager.
.
Also as some Ogier fans point you, it's even possible to say that Loeb left after 2012 cause he was afraid of Ogier coming in VW.
.
we have listen more stupid excuses,even from non Ogier fans.
Never mind.

[Mirek]

They just found this discussion...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXnP-vrW4AAxcoL.jpg

[mknight]

i didnt change something.Just asked a question based at what you wrote.
...
we have listen more stupid excuses,even from non Ogier fans.


BS, troll.

But now I do recall how you repeatedly called Ogier a liar when he said he remembered it was safe to go out in the field on that corner in Monte 2017. You know, on a stage that is a few kms from his hometown, was ran for 2nd time that day and was ran years before as well.
Kinda sets things into perspective.

https://killyourdarlings.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/5881861191_90de8b5bc9.jpg

[dimviii]

BS, troll.

But now I do recall how you repeatedly called Ogier a liar when he said he remembered it was safe to go out in the field on that corner in Monte 2017. You know, on a stage that is a few kms from his hometown, was ran for 2nd time that day and was ran years before as well.
Kinda sets things into perspective.


of course he was lying.
There is no driver that trying to gain 0,1 sec he will risk to exit the road ''because he was remember the place is safe''

[stefanvv]

There is no driver that trying to gain 0,1 sec he will risk to exit the road ''because he was remember the place is safe''

And You're rally fan for how many years?

[dimviii]

And You're rally fan for how many years?

too early to ask these questions.First you have to excel your math.

[stefanvv]

too early to ask these questions.First you have to excel your math.

But we're discussing rally drivers, I'm not one.

EDIT: But if You're so curious about my Mathematics skills, ask the company I'm working for, as obviously You discredit all the university professors.

[focus206]

And You're rally fan for how many years?

Says the guy who said that Ogier is the best rally driver since 2008, ironic :D

Anyway, it's plausible that Ogier, since he knew that place, thought: there are no walls, there are no ditches, here is a place in which I can feel confident to attack, nothing bad will happen if I arrive slightly long / go too much on the outside - THAT I believe. Instead if we're supposed to believe that Ogier knew that even if he arrived way too long and spun out in a field, he wouldn't have damaged his car at all, then no. If you spin in a field, you can always get a puncture or something worse. Nobody is able to tell "that field looks smooth, if I spin in it nothing bad will happen", not even if Ogier was the farmer cultivating that field.
In any case, this is Citroen WRT topic...

[stefanvv]

Says the guy who said that Ogier is the best rally driver since 2008, ironic :D

I never said he is the best since 2008, don't quote me wrong.


In any case, this is Citroen WRT topic...

Yes, and why we're still discussing Ogier in this topic?

[focus206]

I never said he is the best since 2008, don't quote me wrong.


"last 10 years or so he is the best driver around", copied and pasted.

[stefanvv]

"last 10 years or so he is the best driver around", copied and pasted.


Yes this is the one, thanks.

[focus206]

Yes this is the one, thanks.

You're welcome. I'll also let you know that your sentence is equivalent to say that Ogier is the best rally driver since 2008, which you denied minutes ago. Anyway, your trolling attempts are quite weak, I don't know what kind of enjoyment you find in them, but as you wish...

[stefanvv]

You're welcome. I'll also let you know that your sentence is equivalent to say that Ogier is the best rally driver since 2008, which you denied minutes ago. Anyway, your trolling attempts are quite weak, I don't know what kind of enjoyment you find in them, but as you wish...

I'm not trolling, just little bored of the endless Loeb vs Ogier discussion. I'm not a fan of either, but it's getting tedious, honestly. History is history, statistics is statistics, a medium level man of intelligence would understand this and not bother with it.

[N.O.T]

a medium level man of intelligence would understand this and not bother with it.

a medium intelligence man would also know that 2018 - 10 is 2008...

[Franky]

Guys ...

[AnttiL]

Tommi Mäkinen says "the [Autosport] information is wrong. Kris Meeke is not coming to the Toyota team" https://www.hs.fi/urheilu/art-2000005701026.html?ref=rss

[N.O.T]

well that was obvious even without the makinen confirmation...

[pantealex]

Well certain Mr Kankkunen did win Championship with 3 different brands...

Some people say that Ogier is better than Loeb because he (Ogier) has win it with 2 ;)

I strongly believe that what other drivers have done, means nothing when Ogier is making his decisions.

[dnb]

Well certain Mr Kankkunen did win Championship with 3 different brands...

Some people say that Ogier is better than Loeb because he (Ogier) has win it with 2 ;)


So Ogier only needs to go to Toyota and try to win with a third one. :D

I don't believe anyone will ever repeat Loeb's achievements in WRC (9 titles), and remains the best in my eyes. But I definitely prefer the current situation when every rally is interesting to follow.

[RS]

So Ogier only needs to go to Toyota and try to win with a third one. :D


A year testing followed by a comeback with Skoda sounds better to me :)

[pantealex]

A year testing followed by a comeback with Skoda sounds better to me :)

with some rallies with P O L O R 5 :)

[Tarmop]

Sounds like something a five-time reigning champion isn`t interested in...

[pantealex]

Sounds like something a five-time reigning champion isn`t interested in...

You got a point. ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Citroën confirms WRC future - https://t.co/OoRQzrF6Ei https://t.co/2BtJtyBrEe

[Marcco]

Citroën confirms WRC future - https://t.co/OoRQzrF6Ei https://t.co/2BtJtyBrEe

Great news! Now, let's hope they find decent driver :)

[N.O.T]

great to see that arab advertising billboard to stay for two more years... exciting !!!!

[RS]

If they can't get a top driver will they still carry on?

[pantealex]

If they can't get a top driver will they still carry on?

Define "Top Driver" ?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Budar sounds like their hopes are pinned on signing Ogier. Good luck with that one ! ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Define "Top Driver" ?

A multiple rally winner.

[Rally Power]

If they can't get a top driver will they still carry on?

Let’s give them a break. They’ve already fix the car but Meeke’s episode made them lose a bit of focus. They now need some stability (having Breen moaning doesn’t help…) and get a proper budget to keep development and run 3 cars next season. Even without Ogier, Neuville or Tanak (current top drivers) they can have a competitive driver line up, if they choose wisely.

[er88]

Let’s give them a break. They’ve already fix the car but Meeke’s episode made them lose a bit of focus. They now need some stability (having Breen moaning doesn’t help…) and get a proper budget to keep development and run 3 cars next season. Even without Ogier, Neuville or Tanak (current top drivers) they can have a competitive driver line up, if they choose wisely.What's Breen been moaning about? I haven't been paying attention

And maybe if drivers keep moaning it says something about the team and car.

[er88]

Budar sounds like their hopes are pinned on signing Ogier. Good luck with that one ! ;)Not as badly as Matton last year. At least Budar has acknowledged there's other good drivers who he could be interested in

[AnttiL]

Not as badly as Matton last year. At least Budar has acknowledged there's other good drivers who he could be interested in

And the people sitting on top of the money bags are aware that Kris Meeke is not good enough

[ESTR]

Well you the smart ones, tell us dumb ones who are top drivers besides Ott, Ogi and Neuville. Latvala, Meeke? Maybe Loeb the only one but he will not embarass himself, I think. Mikkelsen is out of reach and he is not in that league yet. Lappi, Paddon, Evans... Sordo give up and probably don't want full year anymore.

But by all that what I see is one name on side that we all forget about is.... wait for it.............The one and only Qassimi........ Oh shit he is worse than R2 cars but hey if he is goving Budar a paycheck why not set him as leading driver....

[mknight]

A multiple rally winner.

Multiple rally winners that are out of contracts after 2018:

Ogier,
Neuville
Latvala

Single rally winners that are out of contract after 2018:

Paddon,
Sordo
Østberg
(think Evans also has contract next year)

Unexpected signings might happen, like when Neuville went from M-Sport to Hyundai after finishind 2nd in 2013.

It is also possible they might let Tidemand drive some rallies that don't overlap with WRC2 plans this year.

[Norm75]

What's Breen been moaning about? I haven't been paying attention

And maybe if drivers keep moaning it says something about the team and car.he has said without Kris development and setup knowledge Citroen are going to struggle. Looking at shakedown results he has a point.
I don't think he was moaning, he said it's a shame Kris has gone but it is what it is. Was probably just answering a loaded question from the press.

[janvanvurpa]

What's Breen been moaning about? I haven't been paying attention

And maybe if drivers keep moaning it says something about the team and car.

If you are hearing it it also says something about the driver...

If you are paying the bills yourself then complaining is OK I think.
If they are paying you to drive then it might be wise that you don't complain publicly
Unless you win every time out..

[er88]

Multiple rally winners that are out of contracts after 2018:

Ogier,
Neuville
Latvala

Single rally winners that are out of contract after 2018:

Paddon,
Sordo
Østberg
(think Evans also has contract next year)

Unexpected signings might happen, like when Neuville went from M-Sport to Hyundai after finishind 2nd in 2013.

It is also possible they might let Tidemand drive some rallies that don't overlap with WRC2 plans this year.And that makes it look so bleak for Citroen. I'm fascinated to see what plans they actually have for 19/20, as I still can't see them sticking around if they can't get an elite driver.

IMO they aren't going to get a better driver than Kris unless they give Ogier the biggest contract in WRC history. Even then Seb isnt motivated by money, he's motivated by championships and there's a big question mark over whether he will even continue in the sport anyway.

Neuville isn't going to leave Hyundai and Jari probably isn't a step up from Meeke + doesn't know the C3 at all. It leaves Citroen taking a gamble on Paddon or trying to nurture Tiedemand (although I have a feeling his future is linked with Skoda's return to the WRC). Sordo, Ostberg and Breen would be one of the most dull WRC team lineups since Gardemeister/Kresta in 2005, unless Breen can find another level (fingers crossed he can). Everyone already knows Sordo and Ostberg aren't really drivers who can fight for wins on a regular basis.

[Norm75]

I don't see Sordo going back to Citroen. Budar has stated he wants a settled squad with full time drivers, doesn't even want Loeb next year if he only wants to do a few rallies (although head honchos may overrule that) and Dani doesn't seem keen on full program any more.
That and the fact he is mates with Kris, probably knows how much of a turd the c3 is.

He is doing well in the rallies he's been doing this year, can see Hyundai retaining him.

Edit: agree re tideman, think he should stay on skodas books if they are coming back to wrc proper, would be better long term prospects.

[jonkka]

Ask yourselves which top driver would take gamble with the dog that C3 WRC seems to be?

[wrc2017]

Ask yourselves which top driver would take gamble with the dog that C3 WRC seems to be?
According to Budier Meeke was gambling his life.. given 9th and 10th.. it certainly looks that way.

[Rally Power]

According to Budier Meeke was gambling his life.. given 9th and 10th.. it certainly looks that way.

For God’s sake, stop bashing Citroen just because they fired Meeke. Even the Brit journos that spent last year defending him recognized that Meeke has become a loose canon and there was no other choice for Citroen. Besides, you should take a look on your hero path: besides Opel on his first JWRC season and Mini in 2011, Citroen and Peugeot were the only brands supporting Meeke through his rally career; without the French he would probably have retired a long time ago.

Btw, the WRC isn’t about driver A or B; it’s about the manus that choose to be part of this sport, giving the most talented drivers a chance to live their passion and delight the fans. Without manus the WRC becomes insignificant; we should be asking manus to get in and stay, not to leave.

[wrc2017]

For God’s sake, stop bashing Citroen just because they fired Meeke. Even the Brit journos that spent last year defending him recognized that Meeke has become a loose canon and there was no other choice for Citroen. Besides, you should take a look on your hero path: besides Opel on his first JWRC season and Mini in 2011, Citroen and Peugeot were the only brands supporting Meeke through his rally career; without the French he would probably have retired a long time ago.

Btw, the WRC isn’t about driver A or B; it’s about the manus that choose to be part of this sport, giving the most talented drivers a chance to live their passion and delight the fans. Without manus the WRC becomes insignificant; we should be asking manus to get in and stay, not to leave.

Citroen performance is now an complete embarrassment. They cant even blame the drivers now. without retriements they would be 8th and 9th. they cant even say they had 1 competitive time today. if they are trying to promote their brand.. it not working out too well. what part of that do you not get.

[Tarmop]

Competitive times
1: https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/44261-rally-italia-sardegna-2018/?s=172256
2: https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/44261-rally-italia-sardegna-2018/?s=172263
3, so-so: https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/44261-rally-italia-sardegna-2018/?s=172257

There`s nothing to catch anymore anyway, so why total cars in the process? Like Meeke and Loeb showed, it can be competitive.

[Rally Power]

Citroen performance is now an complete embarrassment. They cant even blame the drivers now. without retriements they would be 8th and 9th. they cant even say they had 1 competitive time today. if they are trying to promote their brand.. it not working out too well. what part of that do you not get.

It can be hard for you to understand: I’m not a Citroen fan, I’m a rally fan. Anyone can see they’re still struggling to be at the top but we all should be wishing they can get there asap and praise their efforts, instead of bashing them on a permanent basis.

Btw, like Tarmop showed, the C3 can’t be so bad when Ostberg is able to do the same time of an Ogier in attack mode.

[danon]

Citroen performance is now an complete embarrassment. They cant even blame the drivers now. without retriements they would be 8th and 9th. they cant even say they had 1 competitive time today. if they are trying to promote their brand.. it not working out too well. what part of that do you not get.

Does it hurt?

[wrc2017]

Does it hurt?
That Citroen are like a rudderless ship? No. it actually quite funny.