Citroen WRT

[Tarmop]

Meeke developed-tested it...

Just out of curiosity, how was Loeb able to win stages and lead with it in Mexico? First time on those stages, first time with new tires, first competitive start in a new generation WRC a long time after his last start in the series, with a co-driver most definitely enjoying his cuisine .

[wrc2017]

Meeke developed-tested it...

Just out of curiosity, how was Loeb able to win stages and lead with it in Mexico? First time on those stages, first time with new tires, first competitive start in a new generation WRC a long time after his last start in the series, with a co-driver most definitely enjoying his cuisine .

Lets be clear.
Loeb had 50% crash rate on his return.
That in itself shows what you have to do to get times from the car.
He had one goal. to win the rally. nothing else.
He most likely had every conceivable upgrade to the car.
He is the best ever driver to grace a rallycar.
So yes, in certain areas it can be quick, but sporadically

When Lappi and Toyota got into their stride, they cleaned the floor with Loeb and Citroen. Could you ever have thought that?

[Tarmop]

Don`t remember crashing in Mexico, only a puncture.

[AnttiL]

Don`t remember crashing in Mexico, only a puncture.

Crash in Corsica, no crash in Mexico = 50% crash rate?

[Norm75]

Does it hurt?

It might possibly hurt their sales. Citroen need to build desirable cars, they don't necessarily need to win championships. Ford have not exactly won loads of championships in the last 30 years but have still shifted a lot of cars, partly through the connection between rallying and the RS brand.

On this rally forum, how many of us drive a Citroen? If any, did you buy one on the back of wrc success?
I think firing Meeke, in the way they have, is only going to hurt sales and brand image, I've only seen tweets from people saying they were thinking of buying a Citroen (usually a van cos their cars aren't desirable) but won't touch one now, not a sudden influx of people wanting to buy one now they've fired Kris.

That said, they would need to sell a few to cover the crash damage cost!

[KKS]

It might possibly hurt their sales. Citroen need to build desirable cars, they don't necessarily need to win championships. Ford have not exactly won loads of championships in the last 30 years but have still shifted a lot of cars, partly through the connection between rallying and the RS brand.

On this rally forum, how many of us drive a Citroen? If any, did you buy one on the back of wrc success?
I think firing Meeke, in the way they have, is only going to hurt sales and brand image, I've only seen tweets from people saying they were thinking of buying a Citroen (usually a van cos their cars aren't desirable) but won't touch one now, not a sudden influx of people wanting to buy one now they've fired Kris.

That said, they would need to sell a few to cover the crash damage cost!
it's kind of special french logic, if you not good - make a decision to make it worse.

[AndyRAC]

Citroen don't really build desirable cars - certainly not performance variants; they haven't taken advantage of their previous WRC success. A 'C4 by Loeb' and a DS3 Racing are really the only 2 half decent cars they've had. Pretty pathetic.
And their rivals all have performance cars, and all rated highly by the journalists.....so they're even losing there.

[Norm75]

Citroen don't really build desirable cars - certainly not performance variants; they haven't taken advantage of their previous WRC success. A 'C4 by Loeb' and a DS3 Racing are really the only 2 half decent cars they've had. Pretty pathetic.
And their rivals all have performance cars, and all rated highly by the journalists.....so they're even losing there.

Indeed. Rally Power mentioned we should stop bashing Citroen. Is now not the time they need bashing with a really big, heavy stick. You are quite right, the last car they built that had any desirability is the DS3. The last car that had any true competitiveness.
Do they use that car, and build on its base for the new wrc era cars, or build a completely new and unproven car to try and promote a bland eurobox. All other Manus just built on the base of the previous generation cars, which were a more stable base.
This year they start with a fixed budget, they know they have an unpredictable car that likes to bounce itself of the road or go into snap oversteer suddenly, so do they keep a contingency for inevitable crash repair costs or do they blow half the budget on hiring Loeb to do a few rallies.

Going back to the desirability of the brand, Citroen used to make highly innovative cars, traction Avant, 2cv, ds and cx etc, but now they are just like any other euro box.
I was considering a DS3 even for my youngest son's 1st car, now not so sure.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see Citroen pull out of wrc, but the decisions made by them have not been the most logical ones.

[Zeakiwi]

PSA only sold 3.6 million vehicles last year. Purchased Opel/ Vauxhall in 2017.

https://media.groupe-psa.com/en/strong-acceleration-2017-groupe-psa-worldwide-sales

One might expect a sales dip in Dungannon.

Surely if your roads are salted in winter you would get your son a galvanised Audi or something similar.

[Norm75]

Not really a fan of Audi's, other than old 5 cylinder quattro.
Around here they are predominantly driven by arseholes that sit right on your bumper. In any case, I don't expect the life expectancy of my son's first car to outlive any need for long lasting rust protection!

[Rally Power]

One might expect a sales dip in Dungannon.

Meeke hardcore fans refusing to buy a PSA car after he was fired will have a short brand list to choose from: they can’t buy a Toyota/Daihatsu/Lexus neither, as Makinen already said he wasn’t interested on Meeke; a Mini or BMW, as he was dumped by the Germans at the end of 2011; any VW Group car, once VW choose Mikkelsen over him in 2012 and certainly no Ford, having in mind the numerous occasions Meeke was available and Mr. Wilson never bother to sign him. That leaves a Hyundai or Kia as sole options (hope they styill buy a car from a WRC manu…), but they should be quick if the Koreans actually hires Meeke: probably Hyundai won’t be as patient as Citroen was and wait 4 and a half years to axe him.

[wrc2017]

Meeke hardcore fans refusing to buy a PSA car after he was fired will have a short brand list to choose from: they can’t buy a Toyota/Daihatsu/Lexus neither, as Makinen already said he wasn’t interested on Meeke; a Mini or BMW, as he was dumped by the Germans at the end of 2011; any VW Group car, once VW choose Mikkelsen over him in 2012 and certainly no Ford, having in mind the numerous occasions Meeke was available and Mr. Wilson never bother to sign him. That leaves a Hyundai or Kia as sole options (hope they styill buy a car from a WRC manu…), but they should be quick if the Koreans actually hires Meeke: probably Hyundai won’t be as patient as Citroen was and wait 4 and a half years to axe him.
Meeke won rallys for Citroen where others couldn't. This weekend is the new normal for Citroen. You should be happy for them.

[Norm75]

Toyota, Ford haven't hired and fired Kris in the same way Citroen has. That seems to be what grates with his fans the most. I don't think any Meeke fan would have argued against Citroen not renewing his contract at the end of the year, if his season had continued in the way it had been of late

In any case, most of the manufacturers you mention actually make desirable cars, even the new i30n gets great reviews against the likes of a golf GTi. As I said earlier, I bet there are more rally enthusiasts that are more likely to by a Citroen van than a Citroen car, that might think twice.

[Rally Power]

Honestly I do like Meeke and still hope he can be at the WRC some years more, especially if he manages to improve his driving approach. Enought of this talk to me. Best luck to Meeke. Best luck to Citroen.

[satnav]

A point that Colin Clark mentioned on the kitchen table , the driver after Seb Loeb to have the most WRC wins in a Citroen is Kris Meeke , a fact that isn't a fact as Seb Ogier won more rallys in a Citroen than Meeke , but we all need to draw a line under the whole situation and move on , after all there are somethings that happen in life that we don't like however the sun will rise tomorrow again and what will be will be just accept it and move on.

Colin Clark now supports fake news ………..

[AnttiL]

A point that Colin Clark mentioned on the kitchen table , the driver after Seb Loeb to have the most WRC wins in a Citroen is Kris Meeke , a fact that is sometimes forgotten in this sorry state of affairs.

Talking about facts forgotten in a sorry state of affairs, Colin Clark forgot that Ogier won more rallies with a Citroen than Meeke, although Ogier was a rather newbie to the sport at the time.

[satnav]

Talking about facts forgotten in a sorry state of affairs, Colin Clark forgot that Ogier won more rallies with a Citroen than Meeke, although Ogier was a rather newbie to the sport at the time.

Thanks for the correction , I didn't check what he said was correct , seems not even Colin gets it right all the time .

[mknight]

Last year with 3 cars Citroen finished Sardinia with 1 destroyed car and 9th place. This year with 2 they finished 5th and 6th all cars ok.

[wrc2017]

Last year with 3 cars Citroen finished Sardinia with 1 destroyed car and 9th place. This year with 2 they finished 5th and 6th all cars ok.

just when you are stating facts.. here is a few more.

fact 1, might as well not have been at the rally. zero exposure.

fact 2 only for mikkelson, latvala, tanak technical failures they would be 8th and 9th.

fact 3 the car is atleast 0.5s per km off the pace.

fact 4 as a team, if you are happy with that performance, then you have serious problem.

[GravelBen]

Calling an opinion a fact doesn't mean its actually a fact.

[sonnybobiche]

I may be misremembering, but I think Citroen are way closer to the rest of the field in terms of manufacturer points than they were at the same stage last year, despite only running two cars.

That said, I found their signing Kris Meeke incomprehensible at the time, and I found their leaving WTCC and committing to WRC incomprehensible at the time, and so far they haven't done anything to make me question my initial impressions. But I'm thankful that they are in WRC and apparently staying for at least one more year. I hope they'll be a permanent fixture in the championship; they're the Ferrari of WRC.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Citroen-Sport putting in Mads Østberg in place of Meeke was no surprise... what other option was there ?

I'm happy for Mads, but he isnt going to bring any wins and isnt the answer long-term.

[ESTR]

I think that they count on Paddon or Sordo but they realize that this can't happen. So their remaining was only Ostberg and nothing else.

[RS]

Citroen-Sport putting in Mads Østberg in place of Meeke was no surprise... what other option was there ?

I'm happy for Mads, but he isnt going to bring any wins and isnt the answer long-term.

Mads is an appropriate solution for the remainder of this year, maybe next year as no.2 or no.3.. but for next year they need a number one. I don't think Craig is at that level yet.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

If Citroen cant/dont get Ogier for 2019, who is the next best option ?

IMO it's Sordo. He's driving better than ever, has great experience (also with the team), plus Spain is a huge market for Citroen road cars.

[Gregor-y]

Sordo's been such a steady number two for so long can he really lead a team at this point? Then again has he ever had the opportunity?

[Sulland]

If Citroen cant/dont get Ogier for 2019, who is the next best option ?

IMO it's Sordo. He's driving better than ever, has great experience (also with the team), plus Spain is a huge market for Citroen road cars.

Maybe Lappi is the man. Then they get a very talented man on his way up.
If they want a more secure solution, Latvala as a clear number onedriver, is still a winner imo.

[RS]

Problem for Citroen is their car is currently the least desirable for any driver, and I don't really see anyone in WRC just going somewhere for the cash.

Maybe someone like Paddon is the answer.. currently in a rut but still with potential.

Lappi I guess is under long term contract with Toyota, and frankly why would he want to leave?

And Citroen bin Meeke and take Latvala? Hmmm.

[Andre Oliveira]

Pontus or Evans?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Lappi won't be leaving the Toyota Barn :D

[AnttiL]

If Citroen can't get Ogier or Neuville they would need to get one of the Toyota guys and seems like it's a happy relationship both ways. So yes, Paddon, Sordo and Evans are their next best bets - the only rally winners available - considering that Mikkelsen is already signed to Hyundai. It does not look good for Citroen.

I was suspecting a crazy silly season already ongoing but it seems all quiet on that front.

[rallyfiend]

Allegedly Pierre Budar has indeed had conversations about Lappi with Erik Veiby.

For sure Lappi is out of contract at the end of this year.

[Sulland]

Allegedly Pierre Budar has indeed had conversations about Lappi with Erik Veiby.

For sure Lappi is out of contract at the end of this year.

Maybe also Pontus?
Would be smart of Even Management to get him matched in WRC, even if he is to be with a possible VAG push in the top class!

[RS]

Allegedly Pierre Budar has indeed had conversations about Lappi with Erik Veiby.

For sure Lappi is out of contract at the end of this year.

Lappi would be nuts to leave Toyota for Citroen (who’d of thought we’d be saying that two years ago).. but it might drive his price up.

[AnttiL]

People said that about Tänak leaving M-Sport and how did that turn out?

[Essaj]

It's not easy for Citroen at the moment, Loeb seems to be done with WRC and they desperately need a winning driver like Ogier or Neuville, but are they any intrested to join now when they have seen how things are going with Citroen? My bet is no, unless the pay check is insane and that's what they aim for.

Lappi is kinda hit or miss, Citroen might end up with a gold mine - scoring a winner. But it could also be a big miss which would end bot Citroens and Lappis paths in WRC.

Breen, Ostberg & Tidemand line up seems way too weak for me but maybe Latvala would be the answer? Tanak, Lappi and the 3rd driver (which could be a Tidemand) would make a good line up for Toyota and this way Latvala would get back his #1 in a team.

[stefanvv]

Lappi would be nuts to leave Toyota for Citroen

May be, but consider a perspective for Lappi to be N1 in a team?!?

[wrc2017]

May be, but consider a perspective for Lappi to be N1 in a team?!?

Lappi was trouncing Loeb in CORSICA is a Toyota. That should end the conversation.

[stefanvv]

Lappi was trouncing Loeb in CORSICA is a Toyota. That should end the conversation.

Can You translate that in english please?

[Munkvy]

I wonder if Loeb does well in Spain if that will change a few peoples minds about whether Citroen is a worthwhile risk?

[N.O.T]

Loeb will not come back... stop with this stupid idea.

He does not want to commit to such a heavy schedule plus he has nothing to offer anymore, maybe he can win an event or 2 with a full program but he cannot challenge anymore for the championship.

He has already proven he is the best of all times... he does not need to do anymore at his age.

[RS]

I wonder if Loeb does well in Spain if that will change a few peoples minds about whether Citroen is a worthwhile risk?

Meeke already won there last year but that still doesn't change that it seeems to be the least competitive car overall.

[wrc2017]

Can You translate that in english please?
seriously?

[stefanvv]

seriously?

No, I'm kidding, I meant chinese, sorry.

[Norm75]

Loeb will not come back... stop with this stupid idea.

He does not want to commit to such a heavy schedule plus he has nothing to offer anymore, maybe he can win an event or 2 with a full program but he cannot challenge anymore for the championship.

He has already proven he is the best of all times... he does not need to do anymore at his age.
I think you misunderstood munkvy. He was only suggesting if Loeb does well in Spain it may make other drivers think Citroen is worth the risk.
I don't think anyone is in any doubt Loeb is not interested in full season.

[N.O.T]

didn;t they rebuild the car last year as well ???

Wortless arab team of nobodies... hope the sport gets rid of them soon.

[wrc2017]

No, I'm kidding, I meant chinese, sorry.

OK, for those with IQ which straying into negative territory

Loeb, the best ever driver, who has won Corsina 8 times, in a car that, is deemed to be shit everywhere, apart from tarmac, was being trounced by a novice in a car build in a barn in finland. why would that novice leave that team to drive a car, for a team, that sacks people who make mistakes, under resourced, clearly has fundamental issues, and try and fight his ex-team mates in an inferior car/team/budget? unless he is a sadomasochistic.

[Tarmop]

Where is the crushing part, exactly?

[stefanvv]

OK, for those with IQ which straying into negative territory

Loeb, the best ever driver, who has won Corsina 8 times, in a car that, is deemed to be shit everywhere, apart from tarmac, was being trounced by a novice in a car build in a barn in finland. why would that novice leave that team to drive a car, for a team, that sacks people who make mistakes, under resourced, clearly has fundamental issues, and try and fight his ex-team mates in an inferior car/team/budget? unless he is a sadomasochistic.

You don't try lo lower my IQ, do You? Where is that trouncing? Loeb has more better stage times for the stages they completed together (with less ambitions in rally2).

In general this is far, far away from my initial post, which is - "perhaps Lappi can prefer to be N1 in any team". I don't write in chinese, do I?

EDIT: And what the **** was that statement that "Loeb is a Toyota in Corsica"?!?

[Norm75]

EDIT: And what the **** was that statement that "Loeb is a Toyota in Corsica"?!?
It's easy enough to figure out 'is' supposed to read 'in'.
The thing is, this is the World Wide Web. Many of us are native to different countries but try to communicate in one common language . . . need to give and take a little.

. . . and it's mandarin by the way ;)

[stefanvv]

It's easy enough to figure out 'is' supposed to read 'in'.
The thing is, this is the World Wide Web. Many of us are native to different countries but try to communicate in one common language . . . need to give and take a little.

. . . and it's mandarin by the way ;)

It's not easy for me, sorry. To the point anyway - shall we;)

And btw if You want people to understand You in the common language, it's the effort You should take on Your own, if english is so hard for You, it's a pity, life is harsh. I'm not suppose to know that the kid is Meeke fanboy, am I? There is a thread for Meeke to say something about him.

[Rally Power]

Allegedly Pierre Budar has indeed had conversations about Lappi with Erik Veiby.
For sure Lappi is out of contract at the end of this year.

Lappi in Citroen would be fantastic; much better than Paddon. Fingers crossed for it!

[Eli]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/137486/citroen-considering-significant-c3-setup-change

[wrc2017]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/137486/citroen-considering-significant-c3-setup-change

So the front and rear geometry that took a year to develop, as the car was initially defective, are now in place.
Breen will be podium, Otsberg quick on Day 1 then fade.

[rallyfiend]

So the front and rear geometry that took a year to develop, as the car was initially defective, are now in place.
Breen will be podium, Otsberg quick on Day 1 then fade.

And Meeke will be annoyed.

[wrc2017]

And Meeke will be annoyed.

im sure he is delighted after being the fall guy for a year and a half.

[N.O.T]

whoever believes that crap form citroen is an idiot.

[OHL]

whoever believes that crap form citroen is an idiot.

What should we believe?

Breen's consistent times that were so close to Ott over the whole of the rally can only mean one of two things;
either Citroen is in fact getting better, or Toyota is getting slower.
We all know your opinion on Toyota, so which is it?

[N.O.T]

What should we believe?

Breen's consistent times that were so close to Ott over the whole of the rally can only mean one of two things;
either Citroen is in fact getting better, or Toyota is getting slower.
We all know your opinion on Toyota, so which is it?

people who take results from a village testing event seriously should not be allowed to have opinions on anything...

[Watson]

What should we believe?

Breen's consistent times that were so close to Ott over the whole of the rally can only mean one of two things;
either Citroen is in fact getting better, or Toyota is getting slower.
We all know your opinion on Toyota, so which is it?
It could also be that Toyota keep their cards close to their chest.

[Norm75]

im sure he is delighted after being the fall guy for a year and a half.

Having spoken to someone closely affiliated with the wrc, I'm sure he isn't.

[rallyfiend]

Allegedly the lawyers are very much involved between Meeke and Citroen...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ostberg taking credit for the changes to the C3 WRC which have been made in his tests and to suit his driving style:

"We have done massive things to the car," Ostberg told Autosport.

"Together with the engineers I have changed the philosophy with the car, I'm driving it differently.

"I am the one who wanted [those changes] to help me drive fast. I was not confident in Portugal and Sardinia, but now I am."

Asked if he was surprised at the times in shakedown, he replied: "The times are strong and yes, I am a little bit surprised.

"Like I said, we have done big things, but it's difficult to know if you tune it enough.

"My boss asked me the same question: 'is it enough?' We did 50 clicks in the damper, changed the suspension here and diff there and... does it work? You only need one of these elements to be out and it's gone, but I do feel like we've got it right.


"What can I do on the event? I can do what I did on shakedown. The question is what can the others do between now and the finish?

"We can win this rally if the car is working well. The feeling from the test, the feeling today and the recce is all good.

"I want to go out and do exactly what I have done; I can drive at the speed I had in shakedown for two weeks in a row if I want."

[Simmi]

Big words from a guy who has never won a WRC event on pure pace. I'd love to see Mads battling at the front but in my head I can't quite see it. Let's see. I have good memories of 2013 and my second trip to Finland. He and Thierry were on it that year.

[wrc2017]

Big words from a guy who has never won a WRC event on pure pace. I'd love to see Mads battling at the front but in my head I can't quite see it. Let's see. I have good memories of 2013 and my second trip to Finland. He and Thierry were on it that year.

The new rear sub-frame made it to Portugal if I remember correctly, now the front sub-frame for Finland.
These things have taken a year to develop, most likely after Meeke complaining was substaniated by Loeb... now and Otsberg is taking any credit on the back of one shakedown result. He is learn to keep his mouth shut. What will be his excuse on Sunday evening?
Breen will outpace him over the rally.

[Rally Power]

The new rear sub-frame made it to Portugal if I remember correctly, now the front sub-frame for Finland.
These things have taken a year to develop, most likely after Meeke complaining was substaniated by Loeb... now and Otsberg is taking any credit on the back of one shakedown result. He is learn to keep his mouth shut. What will be his excuse on Sunday evening?

One thing is to complain that something is wrong; another is to help fixing it. I truly believe Ostberg is better than Meeke on the second, which is great for Citroen.

[racerx1979]

Let the man say whatever he wants. Dude has spent a fortune to run in the WRC. It's one more driver and one more WR car on the stages... 4 hours before we see some serious action. So many unknowns makes this event incredibly interesting.

Toyota should dominate. The word within Toyota is that Lappi has been showing amazing pace during tests. He was about 95% during shakedown according to EPL himself. JML and EPL both admitted to taking fairly easy during shakedown as they have done enough testing.

Citroen coming in with new front suspension mods, but the driver talent will keep them in 5th-6th place in my opinion.

Hyundai has done some testing in Finland/Estonia to be better this year.

Ford with new aero and Sachs dampers for Ogier to help him...although rumor is the sachs dampers were introduced fairly late and this might be an issue for Seb, but we shall see.

[wrc2017]

One thing is to complain that something is wrong; another is to help fixing it. I truly believe Ostberg is better than Meeke on the second, which is great for Citroen.

he has you fooled too.

[skarderud]

He actually made the subaru S14 driveable, he isn't that bad for sure.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Norm75]

I'm a big Meeke fan, but I also like Mads too. I think he gets a lot of stick for having money, which takes away a little credit when he does do well.
However, I'm with wrc2017 on this one. It is well documented that Kris was pushing for changes with the setup of the car. Citroen only heeded when it was confirmed by other drivers (who they could of, should of used in initial car development as well).

Citroen said it would take a year to implement the changes. Do you really believe Mads does a pet an calls for changes which suddenly now take a matter of weeks to sort?

[mknight]

I don't really see anyone saying all changes are due to Østberg, that would be foolish.

Equally foolish as claiming all changes are due to Meeke.

[Norm75]

I don't really see anyone saying all changes are due to Østberg, that would be foolish.

Equally foolish as claiming all changes are due to Meeke.

In the article that was linked, kind of gives the impression that Mads pretty much gives himself the credit for turning the car around.
But yes, agree Meeke can't be given all credit either, but the reports all said the other drivers were asking for the same thing as Kris, and Loeb ran very similar settings to Kris. Therefore, he must have a pretty good grip on car setup.

[RaunoK]

Considering the pace of Citroen, I wonder might it change Ogier's decisions about next season?

[ESTR]

It's just one rally...

[Rally Power]

I'm a big Meeke fan, but I also like Mads too. I think he gets a lot of stick for having money, which takes away a little credit when he does do well.
However, I'm with wrc2017 on this one. It is well documented that Kris was pushing for changes with the setup of the car. Citroen only heeded when it was confirmed by other drivers (who they could of, should of used in initial car development as well).
Citroen said it would take a year to implement the changes. Do you really believe Mads does a pet an calls for changes which suddenly now take a matter of weeks to sort?

It’s also well documented that Meeke and Citroen staff were delighted with the car during the 9 months they spent testing it and complains only started after the first rally outing, which means the whole team was caught by surprise.

With only a few engineers left from Xsara/C4 days and a leading driver with no experience on active diffs they clearly struggled to find a quick fix; inviting Mikkelsen to give an extra help or calling a former WRC engineer to replace the tech director were ways to speed up the process and it makes little sense relate them to Meeke remarks.

Btw, Ostberg long experience with the Impreza and last year on the Fiesta can actually be usefull to Citroen; we shouldn’t forget he already managed to improve the C3 set up in Sweden.

[Rally Power]

If he was so good at setting a car up and testing why did Citroen let him go and keep Kris?

Smart question; probably only Matton can answer.

[Norm75]

It’s also well documented that Meeke and Citroen staff were delighted with the car during the 9 months they spent testing it and complains only started after the first rally outing, which means the whole team was caught by surprise.

With only a few engineers left from Xsara/C4 days and a leading driver with no experience on active diffs they clearly struggled to find a quick fix; inviting Mikkelsen to give an extra help or calling a former WRC engineer to replace the tech director were ways to speed up the process and it makes little sense relate them to Meeke remarks.

Btw, Ostberg long experience with the Impreza and last year on the Fiesta can actually be usefull to Citroen; we shouldn’t forget he already managed to improve the C3 set up in Sweden.
Valid points. Citroens problem was however, relied heavily using the same sort of roads in France to develop the car. Even in a road car, you can hammer up and down familiar pieces of road and the car can feel fine. Take it on other road surfaces and that same car that felt fine elsewhere can feel a lot different, even with much greater tolerances engineered into the suspension and steering settings to allow for the variation in road surfaces a road car has to cope with.

The reason why they went with Mads, he doesn't tend to bin it too often. Citroen started the year with a fixed budget, not an infinite one.
Kris is a very quick driver, but drives 100% all the time. Fine if the car behaves, but if it's got fundamental problems it's better to drive at 95% and bring the car home, so money can be spent on development instead of repair costs.

[wrc2017]

So as Tanak checks out in Rally Finland, and Otsberg has the chance of a lifetime to win Rally Finland and go down as a legend... his stage end comments read..

OSTBERG:"We are trying to increase the speed step by step, it feels quite good. We're not willing to do anything stupid, at these speeds you want to stay on the roads."

The car is still as good as yesterday, but Ostberg doesn't have the IT factor.

[Tarmop]

He is still doing great, being the second fastest. Toyota was fast at his home event already last year, add Tänak to the equation and it`s just magnificent, but he is still in front of the other 2 Toyotas, winners/leader of last years event.

[wrc2017]

He is still doing great, being the second fastest. Toyota was fast at his home event already last year, add Tänak to the equation and it`s just magnificent, but he is still in front of the other 2 Toyotas, winners/leader of last years event.
sure. but he hasn't that last 1%

[Coach 2]

So as Tanak checks out in Rally Finland, and Otsberg has the chance of a lifetime to win Rally Finland and go down as a legend... his stage end comments read..

OSTBERG:"We are trying to increase the speed step by step, it feels quite good. We're not willing to do anything stupid, at these speeds you want to stay on the roads."

The car is still as good as yesterday, but Ostberg doesn't have the IT factor.

So you think he chould take "a Meek".

[mknight]

Citroen WRT thread.

Citroen WRT is doing very well in Finland 2018.

Why is a kicked driver that finished 8th here last year 3 mins down getting brought up as comparison?

The world wonders.

[Norm75]

Hmmm, why would a bunch of rally enthusiasts mention a rally driver in a thread about a rally team that said rally driver is (probably still) contracted to.

Why did you mention him a couple of posts ago if it winds you up so much? Just chill and allow people to have their conversations, and ignore what you don't want to read, it's not the end of the world!

[wrc2017]

Citroen WRT thread.

Citroen WRT is doing very well in Finland 2018.

Why is a kicked driver that finished 8th here last year 3 mins down getting brought up as comparison?

The world wonders.

Citroen only on the pace because of complete new front and rear geometry including sub frames.. and a new homologated centre diffs, now with Olins dampers.

For 18 months CWRT drivers had been told to go and win rallys in what obviously was a defective car. With upgrades that were set in motion 9 month ago now on the car...is that not now becoming obvious to even you. which part of the above is wrong?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

If he was so good at setting a car up and testing why did Citroen let him go and keep Kris?

Meeke's speed is clearly the answer to why he was kept.

Ostberg hasnt ever been the outright fastest guy... but its not always that that wins rallies and championships.

[greencroft]

Congratulations to Citroen for this result. If they can repeat this level of competitiveness elsewhere, then this could really stir up the driver market - thinking Paddon, Latvala and even Ogier. If the car can be proven to have the pace, any one of them may be tempted to jump ship from their present team.

Not taking anything away from Ostberg - that was a rally long performance that many (including me) did not expect.

[itix]

I think we need a few rallies to judge how far Citroen has actually come. Finland is a very smooth and particular rally. I think Turkey, Spain and GB will give a better indication of what progress have actually been made but no doubt they have made progress because let's be realistic, Finland is not a rally Østberg should be able to fight for the lead in.

This is going to be interesting for 2019 if they, like they promised, bag a driver able to win all events.

[Rally Power]

Citroen only on the pace because of complete new front and rear geometry including sub frames.. and a new homologated centre diffs, now with Olins dampers.
For 18 months CWRT drivers had been told to go and win rallys in what obviously was a defective car. With upgrades that were set in motion 9 month ago now on the car...is that not now becoming obvious to even you. which part of the above is wrong?

Soon after last year tech director replacement the car started to improve and even Meeke admitted it. Mikkelsen was P2 on Germany rough tarmac; Meeke won Catalunya (only 3s down on the gravel leg) and fought for the lead in Australia till hitting a bridge guard. This year all sort of minor incidents (especially punctures and drivers mistakes) undermined final results but stage times in Mexico, Corsica or Argentina proved the car can be fast when properly tuned. Breen brilliantly managed to be P2 in Sweden with Ostberg set up tips and this weekend the Norwegian excelled himself, showing how helpful he can be for Citroen. Congrats to him and the team.

[mknight]

Congratulations to Citroen for this result. If they can repeat this level of competitiveness elsewhere, then this could really stir up the driver market - thinking Paddon, Latvala and even Ogier. If the car can be proven to have the pace, any one of them may be tempted to jump ship from their present team.

Yes that makes it really interesting. They now have 2nd places from both Sweden and Finland with 2 different drivers both considered "2nd rate".

If they are to be serious about doing WRC they need a top driver that can potentially charge for title. Out of these Ogier,Neuville and Latvala seemingly don't have contract for next year and this could help get one of them. (out of these I'd consider Ogier the most likely).

Paddon I rate a bit below these, but he would also be a good addition. (they won't have any very good tarmac driver in the lineup then though).
For him it might be more tempting to do a full season with Citroen than half-season in Hyundai.

[Sulland]

Do anyone know what Citroen has changed in the front suspension/geometry in the last update?
Any pictures taken in finland that can point to the changes?

[Barreis]

they have now ohlins dampers from what i heard

[GigiGalliNo1]

Citroen

[AMSS]

they have now ohlins dampers from what i heard

They`ve had Ohlins dampers since last year already

[EstWRC]

FEATURE: Citroen’s drivers talk C3 upgrades, and the Otago Rally in NZ


https://rallysportmag.com/feature-citroens-drivers-talk-c3-upgrades-and-the-otago-rally-in-nz/

[wrc2017]

No doubt the car has make significant progress with a complete chassis upgrade now installed. But to be realistic, Ogier and Neuville are not, on pure pace, 2/3 mins slower than Tanak. Therefore I think the road position flattered Otsberg slightly on Day 1, but when on a equal footing with Tanak on road position on Saturday, he was put to bed. He is not a rally winner. I think Citroen are more concerned with showcasing the turnaround with their car, than they are about anything else, to try and tempt Ogier back.

[SubaruNorway]

No doubt the car has make significant progress with a complete chassis upgrade now installed. But to be realistic, Ogier and Neuville are not, on pure pace, 2/3 mins slower than Tanak. Therefore I think the road position flattered Otsberg slightly on Day 1, but when on a equal footing with Tanak on road position on Saturday, he was put to bed. He is not a rally winner. I think Citroen are more concerned with showcasing the turnaround with their car, than they are about anything else, to try and tempt Ogier back.

It's hard for you to swallow that Østberg was only 32sec behind Tanak and not the 2/3min you expected isn't it...?
I think that's quite good value for money considering Toyota did near 20 days of test before Finland and Citroën only 3.

[EstWRC]

kinda off-topic question but do Citroen and Hyundai also test close to their base? we know that m-sport has its own track/road close to the base and Toyota can test in finland close to Puuppola.

[mknight]

In 2016 when Meeke won in Finland he had road position advantage for all 3 days (championship running order for both Friday and Saturday (8th on the road out of 9 WRCs) and then reverse positions for Sunday, so last as he was leading.).

When I pointed it out previously the diehard-fan claimed it had close to nothing to say. Now it suddenly matters for Østberg ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

In Finland the ruts were huge on the second run of stages so the later cars were also disadvantaged at times...

[AnttiL]

In Finland the ruts were huge on the second run of stages so the later cars were also disadvantaged at times...

But probably not much difference from first to tenth WRC car. Except maybe ruts being plowed to more WRC car like from R2 car tracks

[wrc2017]

It's hard for you to swallow that Østberg was only 32sec behind Tanak and not the 2/3min you expected isn't it...?
I think that's quite good value for money considering Toyota did near 20 days of test before Finland and Citroën only 3.

He done better than I expected, buts it obvious the these improvement to the cars, which started in development about this time last year, are only bringing the C3 to where it should have been a year ago.

But other facts remain.

-Otsberg made use of his road position advantage on day one, and was able to hang with Tanak
-Tanak took 35s from Otsberg on Day 2, then sat on it Day 3
-Otsberg cannot win a rally on pure pace.
- Meeke won this rally by the same amount Otsberg was behind the leader, so Citroen still have some way to go.

The C3 is not as well developed as the DS3, relative to its respective piers.

[wrc2017]

In 2016 when Meeke won in Finland he had road position advantage for all 3 days (championship running order for both Friday and Saturday (8th on the road out of 9 WRCs) and then reverse positions for Sunday, so last as he was leading.).

When I pointed it out previously the diehard-fan claimed it had close to nothing to say. Now it suddenly matters for Østberg ;)

Give me time... ive more to do that sit in front of a computer, unlike you it seems. You ever been to Finland Rally?

Let the locals correct me... when the weather was as hot as it was, the surface is loose like marbels, and cleans... leaving a hard base. like it was this year
If it has been damp, the base later is soft, and there is little cleaning, but you go get benefit of slightly cleaner lines, but also ruts in some place. Sometime
the ruts hold the car sometime they do not. The car also runs on the sump guard.

Ive nothing against Otsberg, I just think the result was more of a relief for Citroen, they celebrated it like a victory. I just think Meeke has been the fall guy, found out the car was defective, and instigated a lot of the changes. For a current driver to claim the upturn in performance is due to him as he did on the autosport.com, is a bit rich. But hey, its all water under the bridge.. Meeke is probably laying at home with a cigar watching WRC LIVE...getting paid!

[traxx]

kinda off-topic question but do Citroen and Hyundai also test close to their base? we know that m-sport has its own track/road close to the base and Toyota can test in finland close to Puuppola.


They use a military zone in Satory just closed to the factory

[wrc2017]

so what will the conclusion be on drivers and car after germany i wonder.

[Rally Power]

They use a military zone in Satory just closed to the factory

Right in front of the factory, they just need to cross the street! Yet Satory camp hardly resembles a rally stage: mainly there’s a tarmac/concrete circuit with a short road section (it was open for track days during some time) and a few gravel driveways around.

Ironically there’s a huge development plan to transform the military base into Versailles new district, with housing, services and R&D centers for green mobility…

[wrc2017]

Given another shit performance from Citroen and 2 drivers crashing, i would have assumed the thread should be getting more air time. Why is Otsberg getting away so lightly.. is it because every one knows he is shit on tarmac, so it was no surprise, or is it because he is paying for his drive, so it doesnt matter so much?

[RAS007]

Given another shit performance from Citroen and 2 drivers crashing, i would have assumed the thread should be getting more air time. Why is Otsberg getting away so lightly.. is it because every one knows he is shit on tarmac, so it was no surprise, or is it because he is paying for his drive, so it doesnt matter so much?

It's because Citroen's season is over and has been for quite some time. Nobody expects anything from Ostberg, everyone knows what he is/isn't capable of.

[GravelBen]

Ostberg has never been that good on tarmac, plus it was his first tarmac rally in a year or two. Expectations were low.

[mknight]

I'd actually say Østberg did ok, not very good but about as expected (If you take out the time lost die to the technical issue on friday.)

In a way Breen was much bigger disappointment. Was expecting him to set 4-5 times from the start but he did that first on saturday and then crashed. Hard to judge sunday with some ppl cruising.

[tomhlord]

I'd actually say Østberg did ok, not very good but about as expected (If you take out the time lost die to the technical issue on friday.)

In a way Breen was much bigger disappointment. Was expecting him to set 4-5 times from the start but he did that first on saturday and then crashed. Hard to judge sunday with some ppl cruising.

Ostberg was the slowest WRC car until he crashed, on the Sunday, so no speed and no points. Surely, that's a fail?

Breen was indeed disappointing too, apart from a brief glimmer of hope in the Saturday, but at least he had that going for him.

No wonder Citroen will be speaking to all the drivers out of contract...

[pantealex]

I was expecting that Østberg would be slowest "factory" WRC

[ESTR]

When you are down the leaderboard few minutes away from top the leaders speed doen't play that much. Especially if others don't make silly mistakes.

[wrc2017]

I was expecting that Østberg would be slowest "factory" WRC he accomplished that. and went off.

[mknight]

Ostberg was the slowest WRC car until he crashed, on the Sunday, so no speed and no points. Surely, that's a fail?



He lost something like 20s to Suninen/Breen due to the power issue on friday which was teams fault and did some good times on Saturday. Without the time loss he'd be fighting Suninen on Saturday.

That's quite good considering he has never been good on tarmac and didn't drive it in WRC for 1,5 years now. Obviously it's not very good, but it's not worse than expected either. Off course crashing out with nothing to gain makes it worse.

[Micke_VOC]

Maybe i am nonobjective but Tidemand would be the perfect driver for Citroen. He is good on every surface and very good on testing and development ( a clue are why VW use him so much for testing Polo R5 )

My "dream team" had been Ogier, Tidemand and Ostberg in the team, one contender for the championship, one contender for podium in the championship and Ostberg as the maybe best no 2 driver on gravel to get manufacture points ( He and Sordo are maybe most safe to score points everywhere on gravel)

[Barreis]

Sordo would score points instead of 2 DNFs this season if he had full season and not only 7 rallies. 'must have results' approach probably made that offs...

[mknight]

Sordo would score points instead of 2 DNFs this season if he had full season and not only 7 rallies. 'must have results' approach probably made that offs...
He does exactly the same this season as last year. "Safe" 3rd-4th places on gravel and crashing on tarmac rallies cause he tries too much.(last year he crashed in Germany and Spain, this year Monte and Germany so far). Main difference is that he doesn't have technical issues on gravel this year.

[wrc2017]

He does exactly the same this season as last year. "Safe" 3rd-4th places on gravel and crashing on tarmac rallies cause he tries too much.(last year he crashed in Germany and Spain, this year Monte and Germany so far). Main difference is that he doesn't have technical issues on gravel this year.
that.. compared with your bum chum Otsberg you mentioned above?

[AnttiL]

Sordo and Østberg should share a car. Østberg is good in Finland and Sweden, Sordo is not.

[Barreis]

that means: Ostberg for Finland and Sweden and Sordo for the rest of the season?! :D but Sordo would score even there from 5th to 9th place...

[AnttiL]

that means: Ostberg for Finland and Sweden and Sordo for the rest of the season?! :D but Sordo would score even there from 5th to 9th place...

But Østberg could get a podium. Maybe Australia and Wales for Mads as well.

[Tom206wrc]

I'm so glad to see Sébastien Ogier back with Citroën in 2019 :bounce:

[bomber21]

What a challenge for Sebastien!

[racerx1979]

What a challenge for Sebastien!

If you flip things around and have MSport with Evans, Suninen and say Breen in 2017-2018... all with mediocre results throughout the year with a couple decent results....

We would say the same thing if Seb were going to MSport.

[Rally Power]

Congrats to Citroen and best wishes to Ogier! Hope they’ll manage to be fighting for the wins since Monte Carlo, making us all to forget the team last miserable seasons. If Lappi actually joins in, that will be even more exciting. It's also great to see that Ogier contract is the confirmation that Citroen will be around after 2019, their initial commitment. Vive le WRC!

PS: nice Ogier interview to L’Equipe; the Matton mention makes one wonder if last year problem was really about the money...

[bomber21]

Loeb and Ogier to reunite?

https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/october-2018/loeb-citroen-2019/page/5780--12-12-.html

[Sulland]

Citroen with Ogier, Lappi and maybe Østberg will be a good mix.
Looks like a very capable team for 2019.

But Oger and Lappi will habe some testmiles ahead to improve the C3!

[wrc2017]

looks a good read...

https://www.autohebdo.fr/wrc/actualites/meeke-regle-ses-comptes-avec-citroen-la-verite-ne-m-jamais-ete-donnee-198890.html

[dimviii]

looks a good read...

https://www.autohebdo.fr/wrc/actualites/meeke-regle-ses-comptes-avec-citroen-la-verite-ne-m-jamais-ete-donnee-198890.html

missing the rest of the interview.

[wrc2017]

missing the rest of the interview.

if you pay, you can see

[EstWRC]

Can somebody put the entire interview here ?

[dimviii]

if you pay, you can see

i knew that before i clicked the link.

[Rally Power]

Can somebody put the entire interview here ?

It’s not hard to imagine the rest; in any messy divorce each part has a different version of the facts and despite a fresh start with Toyota, apparently Meeke is still interested in getting back to it. Certainly Citroen staff won’t bother, as they’re hands full trying to make the team great again.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

There's a lot gone on if it needs 6 pages to tell it. He was seriously unhappy with so much.

[er88]

Hopefully someone can access the full article for us and post it here. Snippets so far;

"What hurt me most was the infantile wording of the mail announcing their decision, the immaturity of their words"

After his huge accident in Rally of Sardinia 2017, he said:

“I asked them if the car had to be redesigned, would it have other characteristics. They looked me straight in the eye and said, ‘No!’.

“Later, an engineer discovered something incorrect in the geometry and the very nature of the car. It took them a year to implement the solution.

“The new version made its debut this year, in Finland (where Ostberg finished second overall). Basically, something was not right in the design (of the C3 WRC). The truth has never been given to me,” he said.

[EstWRC]

I’m really keen to hear Breens comments after he leaves.

[T16]

There's a lot gone on if it needs 6 pages to tell it. He was seriously unhappy with so much.

what if it's just little pages?

[tr4m]

Can somebody put the entire interview here ?

From reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/rally/comments/9vbw4p/interview_with_meeke_auto_hebdo_no_2190_november/)


Auto Hebdo No. 2190 - November 7, 2018 part 1/3

At the end of May, the Northern Irishman was sacked by Citroën. Six months later, Toyota announces its recruitment for 2019. On the occasion of the Condroz Rally, where he has reconnected with the competition, the Brit tells us how he lived this fertile period in twists and turns. Interview by Michel Lizin

FIRST, WAS YOUR EVICTION AT CITROËN A SURPRISE?

Huge. I did not expect it at all.

WHAT HAS BEEN YOUR FIRST FEELING: HARDNESS, INJUSTICE, SHAME, INCOMPREHENSION?

(Long silence) After 10 minutes, I said to my wife, "Ok. We go out and we take the family to the restaurant." We ordered a bottle of wine, ate and talked. This is often the case in motorsport: a single phone call can trigger everything, some lines can destroy everything. Unless we react.

WERE YOU STILL HAPPY IN THIS TEAM?

The behavior of the car weighed me, as well as the inertia when it came to implementing solutions. Eleven months ago, when I was laid off for the Rally Poland (2017), I proposed to the team that it be put, amicably, a premature term to our contract. His leaders refused. That's why, in May 2018, their way of doing things shocked me so much. What hurt me most is the infant wording of the mail announcing their decision, the immaturity of their words. I had promised myself not to talk about it. To remain silent. Long time.

HOW ARE YOU IN CONTACT WITH TOYOTA?

Nowadays, there is an instrument (he shows his mobile phone. Numbers are in memory. You press a button and at the other end of the line, it answers ... or not.

HAVE YOU TAKEN THE INITIATIVE?

Yes, I called all the teams.

IMMEDIATELY AFTER BEING VIRATED?

No ! At the end of May, nobody thinks of the next season. I preferred to wait for the right moment.

MORE PRECISELY…

No initiative should be taken until August. No boss is thinking of the future before Finland. This round is special. Some drivers are revealed. Others lack confidence. By their place in the calendar, Finland and Germany play a big role in your rating.

SO YOU HAVE CALLED TOMMI MÄKINEN ...

I called Malcolm (Wilson, boss of M-Sport, editor's note), Tommi and Alain Penasse (Hyundai Motorsport team manager) ...

HOW WERE YOU RECEIVED?

All answered me. I found myself faced with several proposals. I had three in the WRC, plus another, somewhere else. It helped me to have another look at what had happened in May, the words that had been used to get rid of me, to destroy my personality, put an end to my career. If what was said and written then had been the expression of the truth, it would have been finished with me as a pilot. The interest that the teams expressed to me convinced me of the opposite. That said, the ball was in their court, not in mine.

YOUR CAREER COULD HAVE STOPPED THERE ...

I did not believe it for a moment. This could not be the case. Because this text was crap! When it was spread, the reaction of other people made me understand that I was not the only one to think so.

HOW DID YOU REACT ?

Going away for several weeks from the world of the rally. I felt the need to refresh my mind. I suddenly realized that it had been a year and a half since my way of doing my job, which is my life, no longer satisfied me.

THAT IS TO SAY SINCE THE ARRIVAL OF THE C3 WRC?

Exactly!

WHY ?

There is the relationship with the car ... and with the men. I explained to the engineers how the car behaved, how one could lose control, and nothing was happening. Month after month, mutual trust faded. I made mistakes, but they were not, how would I say, "of my fact". I was trying to extract from my car what she could not give. At the start of each rally, the only instruction I received was immutable: "do everything to conquer". I was stupid enough to try to get there with a mount that could not do it. Such was my great mistake. I should have stopped much earlier aiming for the impossible. I was undermined to the point, when my contract was terminated, to consider this issue as a release. Then, very quickly, I felt the need to make sure that my career does not end because of people who do not know what they are talking about.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE BEHAVIOR OF THE C3 WRC?

I can only speak about what I know, what I lived, so not the new version, appeared in August 2018, in Finland. What to say ? A car is never just a piece of metal, with bolts on all four sides and things that make the hull go up and down, move away and get closer to the ground (Meeke is a mechanical engineer, a graduate from Queen's University Belfast (Editor's note). Basically, something was not right in the design of the C3 WRC. The correction of this anomaly depends on the persons responsible for its development and evolution. Personally, I could not blame a piece of metal. It's up to the staff to understand what needs to be changed ... and to execute it. Were the right people not in place? Were the budgets insufficient? The truth has never been given to me. In itself, this is not outrageous. What is it is the time it took to accept the idea that this car was born with a "wolf" making, under certain circumstances, his behavior unpredictable. Elsewhere, as on dry asphalt, provided that the coating is free of unevenness, it was exceptionally effective. Its engine is excellent. He has always been. That's why we were so good at Rally Mexico 2017. Almost all of our competitors had problems with altitude. Not us. That's why I won, even though his balance was not perfect.

BUT YOU WERE THE TEST PILOT N ° 1 OF THE C3 WRC. WOULD NOT YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO INFLUENCE HIS EVOLUTION?

Dozens of times, I returned this question in my head wondering how I could have behaved differently. First, I was not the "test pilot # 1" of the C3 WRC. I was the only one, without anyone to share my feelings! Then, when, more than a decade ago, Citroën developed the C4 WRC, at each test session, an Xsara WRC was present and comparisons were made. For a long time, Loeb was not satisfied with the behavior of the C4. Always, the Xsara was there to remind what was to be "a good Citroën rally". It was the same when the DS3 WRC was developed: at each session, a C4 was there. On the other hand, during the first test with the C3 WRC, then during the following ones, no DS3 WRC appeared. "Lack of budget," I was asked. I can not know if I am right, but I have the feeling that the combination of long suspension deflections and the selected geometries has given rise to an infinity of uncontrolled behavioral variations. In autumn 2017, a year and a half after starting the development of the C3, on a pre-Rally Catalunya session, surprise: a DS3 WRC was present. Loeb was there to drive, for the first time, the C3 WRC. I remember one of his appreciations: "Not bad, but I do not feel connected to the road".

KNOWING THAT, HOW COULD YOU SURVIVE MORE THAN 300 KM FROM A RALLY SPECIAL WITHOUT THREAT ON THE RAILWAY ROPE?

In 2017 in Sardinia, thanks to our favorable order of passage, Paddon and I were fighting for victory. I enter a curve without any particular difficulty, I place the car. Suddenly, she picks up. A wheel hits the embankment, the car rolls up and ends against a bridge. I show the videos to engineers, asking them how could I have, should I have done otherwise. I have not received any awnsers. I asked them if, for whatever reason, the car had to be redesigned, it would have other characteristics. They looked me straight in the eye and said, "No! ". Later, an engineer discovered something incorrect in the geometry and in the very nature of the car. It took them a year to implement the solution. Even more, since this new version made its debut this year, in Finland.

WHILE YOU WERE NO MORE THAN ...

The corrected C3 WRC, the one I was fighting for, I have never driven. Craig (Breen, Editor's note) confirmed that she was much better. In my day, it was a nightmare. We learn in difficult times, we say. These last 18 months, I do not tell you how much I learned! Early in the career, everyone - with the notable exception of Loeb - goes through difficult times. Look at Tänak: Twice fired by Malcolm Wilson before becoming, today, a must. I'm 39, but I only have three full seasons in WRC (2014, 2015 and 2017. Editor's note). I am a young person!

WHEN HAVE YOU RECEIVED A FORMAL PROPOSAL FROM TOYOTA?

Relatively late. I suppose Tommi wanted to be certain that Lappi was leaving (at Citroën, Ed.). When he got the confirmation, he asked me to come to Jyväskylä (Toyota base in Finland) where we had a meeting with several Japanese officials of Toyota Gazoo Racing.

[tr4m]

Auto Hebdo No. 2190 - November 7, 2018 part 2/3

WAS THIS THE FIRST CONCRETE OFFER YOU RECEIVE?

No. But I have too much respect for the people, the companies that were ready to trust me, to get into that kind of consideration. This respect is mutual. All gave it to me except the Citroën officials. For three months, I kept trying to reach them, from base to top, to leave them messages to find a solution amicably, without receiving a return. Never mind ! It will be solved in another way.

FROM A SPORTING PERSPECTIVE, WHICH PROPOSAL WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE INTERESTING THAN THAT OF BEING PILOT TOYOTA IN 2019?

None, I believe. The team is young, it is on the upward slope. To tell you the truth, three years ago, when he had just been awarded the return of Toyota WRC (autumn 2015. Editor's note), Tommi and I had talked very seriously about a common future. A few months earlier, I had won my first WRC victory (Argentina 2015. Editor's note). My contract with Citroën stopped at the end of the year. Tommi had explained to me his plan, all he had in mind. When we parted, I thought that this ticket could very well, over time, prove to be a winner, but that it could not be for me. I finished my second full season in WRC. I could not afford a sabbatical year when no Yaris was going to be available - even for testing - for a year. I rode with Citroën.

DO YOU REGRET THIS CHOICE?

No. It did not produce the desired results and ended abruptly, but today I have four more world victories. Three years later, I found Tommi. After all these events, his feelings for me had not changed. I could not hesitate anymore. One thing impressed me: everything that Tommi had told me about, which in 2015 only existed in his head, has come true. All those who doubted his way of doing know today that his choices were the right ones. Toyota is leading the Constructors classification and, if it had not been the victim of a bad luck, it would be the same for Tänak Drivers.

WHAT PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS DO YOU CARE WITH TOMMI MÄKINEN?

I appreciate its directness and simplicity. He does not know politics. He does not have a hidden agenda. He says things as they are.

AND IT INCLUDES THE DRIVERS ...

He was one, and which one! One of the biggest. Talking to him differs from what can be shared with any other stable boss except, presumably, Malcolm Wilson. Others may know or try to convince you they know, which can complicate things. Tommi knows. I'm not saying that to lead a team, you have to be world champion, but that helps. He has good relations with his crews and his engineers. He has a tendency to get involved with everything, but since he is both simple and competent, it works.

HAVE YOU HAD THE POSSIBILITY OF TESTING THE YARIS WRC BEFORE SIGNING YOUR CONTRACT?

Yes, the day before! But my decision was made. I was there for that. A handshake was enough. The papers can wait.

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU PILOT?

Only one. The session was extended for four days. The Yaris WRC was born in Finland, was developed in Finland and dominated the last two editions of the rally. I know this field well, on which I imposed myself in 2016, with the DS3. The following year, with the C3, I was moving at 1 second / kilometer of the best ... and I was scared! Since then, I had not put a wheel on these stages. From my first few meters behind the wheel of the Yaris, I thought, "Wow! ". The pleasure was back, intact, if not stronger than ever. I expected the Yaris to be good in his homeland, but what I felt exceeded all my hopes.

WHAT SESSIONS ARE COMING SOON?

Another one, several days, on the ground, then everyone hopes that the snow will have arrived and that we will be able to pass to the tires nails. Then, before Christmas, are scheduled tests prior to Monte Carlo.

HOW WERE YOUR FIRST CONTACTS WITH THE TEAM?

It seemed a little weird, because this is the first time I change teams. In recent years, I have only known Citroen, and not much before, except for a brief experience at Mini, where we had put the cart before the horse. For the first time, I discovered a new team where everything was organized before my arrival. The agreement was immediate with the two main leaders, Tom Fowler and Anthony Sharp. Both are British and former from M-Sport. I was not going to reinvent the wheel by pacing the paths on which the Yaris was born. It was more for me to adapt. That said, we changed the geometry, the dampers, the springs, the anti-roll bars, going, sometimes deliberately, in the wrong direction, so that I felt how the auto reacted to the changes of settings. The first positive point is that she reacts. The second is that I feel it instantly. This had the effect of increasing my confidence. When you make her move in one direction, she goes! The dialogue is frank. This is not the case with all cars.

HAVE YOU RECEIVED INSTRUCTIONS FROM MÄKINEN ABOUT 2019?

No, but we had a long conversation focused on his approach to flying, rallies. It's in my interest to listen when Tommi talks. We did not specifically mention the Monte Carlo, nor the 2019 season. When you join a team that counts in its ranks two of the fastest drivers, one led the Yaris for two years, while the Another should have had the 2018 champion's crown on his head, the first thing to do is to be humble and to accept learning.

WHAT IS THE DURATION OF YOUR CONTRACT?

A year.

WHAT WILL BE YOUR OBJECTIVE IN 2019?

I have only one: to have fun driving. Being behind or in front of me will not matter. I must, as a priority, have fun.

AND THEN ?

I do not want to set goals in terms of results, wins, titles. Who knows what the future will be like?

YOU HAVE REMEMBERED TO BE 39 YEARS OLD. UNTIL YOUR CAREER WAS RATHER CHAOTIC. DO YOU HAVE AN EXPLANATION ?

I could raise my hands and say, "It's my fault." I could say that on several occasions I wanted to run before I knew how to walk. Is it true ? I'm not like Kalle Rovanperä or Oliver Solberg, programmed to become pilots. It happened to me almost by chance. I was not thinking about the rally when, at 21, I won a selection. It was a revelation! My 11th rally start was Monte Carlo (2003 Opel Corsa S1600). My first special, I finished it 52 '' behind Daniel Carlsson, on a Suzuki factory S1600. Where did he go? After that, especially without money, you have no choice: or you impress, or you go! Perhaps I could, I should have, act differently. But I am Kris Meeke. I acted in my way and I am always there.

IN YOUR CAREER, WHO HELPED YOU THE MOST?

(Long silence) Me. Without my determination, I would not be anywhere. I do not put myself in evidence, but so many others, in my place, would have remained on the floor. Then there was Colin McRae who allowed me to go from the national rally to the world level. So many talented young people have never had this opportunity. Colin gave it to me. He saw something in me and organized how to introduce me to the Junior league. Later, in 2008, I was forgotten when Marc Van Dalen (boss of Kronos Racing, Editor's note) gave me the phone number of the marketing director of Peugeot UK. The following year, I became IRC champion. Five years later, in 2013, after the abortion of Mini's commitment, I've been on the sidelines for a year and a half when Yves Matton remembers me, my 2005 season on the C2 S1600, and then the IRC 2009 and 2010, at Kronos. He aligns me in Finland and Australia ...

[tr4m]

Auto Hebdo No. 2190 - November 7, 2018 part 3/3

DAVID RICHARDS, HOWEVER, HAVE NOT YOU PLAYED A SALE BY SIGNING A COMPLETE TWO-YEAR WRC PROGRAM AGREEMENT THAT WILL REPRESENT THE SIX RALLIES?

I do not see it that way. Before he hired me, I was an IRC pilot. Six world participations with the Mini have made me a WRC driver. Even though the promises were not kept, even though the program was shaky, it made me take a step forward. Without these six rallies, maybe Citroën would never have thought of trusting me for Finland and Australia 2013.

WHAT EFFECT WILL YOU HAVE TO CONFRONT, THE NEXT YEAR, GAILLARDS THAT ARE 15 OR 20 YEARS LESS THAN YOU?

I feel as young as they are. I am not only young in WRC, I am in rally. Earlier, Renaud (Jamoul, his co-driver at the Condroz Rally, Editor's note) was referring to the youth of Breen. Admittedly, Craig is 11 years younger than me, but we took the start of an almost identical number of rallies: 171 for me, 165 for him.

WHAT DO YOU FEEL WHEN YOU SEE SÉBASTIEN LOEB LOOKING FOR OVER 44 YEARS?

My first reaction was to be happy for him. We like to have, at times, been team companions (Monte-Carlo 2015, Mexico and Corsica 2018. Editor's note). He impresses me by the number of his victories: 79! Hard to imagine for me who am in 61 starts in WRC. In Catalonia, he had always won after dominating. This was not the case this time. He showed that there are other ways to win.

IT SHOULD YOU THINK?

Yes, but Seb would not have triumphed if Tänak had not had to change a wheel after a puncture and if Latvala had not, also punctured twice. Loeb is for nothing in these incidents, but he wins and everyone greets the intelligence of the master ...

SUNDAY MORNING, IT HAS ALSO BEEN THE ONLY ONE TO OPT FOR THE MICHELIN AT HARD GUM!

For me, this choice was obvious. I was surprised when Ogier said he did not dare to do the same for safety in his title race. I am convinced that it is rarely appropriate to play the security card. The card Ogier played was not safe, it was not the right one. If he had made the right choice, today his lead over Neuville would be 11 points. Obviously, it's easy to say, from someone who has never been in the position of being pressured into a title fight. That said, I promised myself: if, one day, it should happen to me, I would continue, until the end, to play "the right card" - at least the one I think is the right one - and not the card of alleged security.

WHY CHANGE OF COPILOTE? IS IT THE CHOICE OF PAUL NAGGLE?

It's mine. It was not easy to decide. It's like when you've been with a girl for a long time. Eleven years together! So many common memories: our title in IRC, our five world victories. It seemed to me that I needed a different atmosphere in the car. Warning: I have no complaints to Paul. Maybe we had only become too close. Our relations a little too automatic. A little freshness should not hurt me. I do not have intimacy with his successor. I only know that he does his job perfectly. Having just professional relationships could make it easier for me to share the cabin with my best friend.

AFTER EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED WITH CITROËN, AND WITH THE POWER UP OF SEVERAL YOUNG PEOPLE, WHY ARE TEAMS CONTINUING TO SEARCH FOR YOUR SERVICES?

It's a question to ask them rather than me ... I think I was helped by the circumstances. For 2019, only two drivers were under contract: Ott Tänak at Toyota and Andreas Mikkelsen at Hyundai. Obviously, Citroën wanted to renew his team by getting rid of Ostberg and me. Only Craig has, perhaps, still his chances, on some rallies. They would therefore necessarily sting a minimum of two pilots to others. This has created a great stir in the minds of decision makers. In addition, the coming into force of the new technical rules has made it much more difficult to move up the R5 category to the new WRCs. Training young people may take time without guarantee of results. Talents are always lost on the way. Based on these data, why was I coveted? Certainly not because I'm slow (laughs).

ARE YOU ALWAYS ABOUT THE ASCENDING SLOPE?

I believe him. I only have three full seasons in WRC. 2019 will be my fourth. Time is on my side. I still have two years to develop my potential.

LOEB HAS NOT NEEDED FIVE SEASONS TO REACH THE SUMMITS! AND TODAY, HE WINS STILL ...

Okay, but he's Sebastien Loeb. I'm not in his head, but I believe that Seb will play several WRC races in 2019. Alongside Ogier, it will create an incredible momentum within Citroën. They will confirm each other's directions in the evolution and development of the C3. If this combination is born, it will be up to us, Toyota Gazoo Racing WRC, to react, so that our victories and titles are even more beautiful!


-----
End of article, once again, credit to
From reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/rally/comments/9vbw4p/interview_with_meeke_auto_hebdo_no_2190_november/)

[er88]

Thanks a lot @tr4m, that is one of the most open and honest driver interviews you'll read (due to the nature of contracts thesedays and legal issues). It's a shame it's got so messy.

What surprises me is Meeke saying he's reached out to Citroen to try and settle things amicably, regarding that press release saying he was a danger (which potentially could've risked future employment). Why Citroen wouldn't have wanted that is a mystery, because now that Meeke has just dropped all this and spoken honestly about everything, it makes Citroen look even worse than the shambles we saw from the outside for the last two years or so. Reach an agreement and Meeke would've said very little compared to this.....

Also says he had possibilities at all 3 remaining teams in WRC, plus a proposal outwith WRC. Toyota always had interest due to Makinen rating Meeke highly, and Penasse had said in an interview if Meeke's available you'd look at him due to his speed, but I didn't expect Msport to have been a possibility due to budget issues and Meeke's previous relationship with Malcolm. Sounds like that has thawed over the years thougb.

Also suggestion from Meeke that Ostberg at Citroen is no more, and Breen only has options of some rallies there at most. We knew Ostberg wasn't going to get a paid drive but what about him bringing budget?

What Meeke says about driver starts is true and factual vs Breen, and quite a surprise to hear, but again you can't fight age imo. Reactions do slow down but maybe in rallying it isn't as vital? I get why he still feels young and will reply to comments/ criticism about his age with these replies about rally starts/lack of full seasons though. He is indeed behind a lot of drivers in terms of full wrc seasons and starts, so that does have to be taken into account when team bosses are assessing him vs the likes of Mikkelsen, Sordo, Paddon, Evans, Breen, Ostberg etc etc.

Good interview in a time when you very rarely get any sportsmen talking so openly, and not caring about offending anyone or worrying what they can or cannot talk about.

[EstWRC]

Great interview...thanks a lot!

what still buzzes me and always will (because i have asked this before but havent got an answer) is what went wrong between 2016 and 2017....i remember him sayin good things about the new car in 2016, i think it was at finland that year where he said "just wait till I get into the new car".

But then came 2017 and all is suddenly so wrong.

[mknight]

what still buzzes me and always will (because i have asked this before but havent got an answer) is what went wrong between 2016 and 2017....i remember him sayin good things about the new car in 2016, i think it was at finland that year where he said "just wait till I get into the new car".

But then came 2017 and all is suddenly so wrong.
Exactly robot ;)

Could have been PR, or as Matton said ("all drivers were happy with tests) - something that you couldn't see on the tests.

He did say he wanted Ogier to join at end of 2016. As we talked about here many times before, Citroen's (Mattons?) biggest mistake was not getting another experienced driver in 2016 or at least for 2017 start.

Lot of the rest is post-divorce talk with only one side telling the story with some small details wrong (there was DS3 on Meeke's own pre Germany 2017 (EDIT: corrected) test before Loebs Catalunya test for example).

Very interesting part for me is how he says Loeb's tirechoice on Sunday in Catalunya was obvious and he would have done the same. Meeke was at Toyota in the service park most of the weekend, dunno if he was there sunday morning, but none of the Toyotas went with those tires. Bluuford wrote about his experience and said it was against all recommendations.

[AnttiL]

Thanks for the interview posting!


Also suggestion from Meeke that Ostberg at Citroen is no more, and Breen only has options of some rallies there at most. We knew Ostberg wasn't going to get a paid drive but what about him bringing budget?
Where was this?

you can't fight age imo. Reactions do slow down but maybe in rallying it isn't as vital?
They do slow down, but you can compensate with experience. In the old days this was more of the case, with WRC careers often extending over 40.

[er88]

Thanks for the interview posting!

Where was this?

"Obviously, Citroën wanted to renew his team by getting rid of Ostberg and me. Only Craig has, perhaps, still his chances, on some rallies."

[Fast Eddie WRC]

what if it's just little pages?

What if you posted something sensible instead of pathetic attempts at point-scoring ?

[racerx1979]

I think Breen will be at M-Sport and Ostberg will be sharing car number 3 with Loeb and the Sheik. As I've said before the rumor was for Loeb to do 4-5events before the RX program was cut. I think Loeb will do 7-9 events.

[rhm]

Lot of the rest is post-divorce talk with only one side telling the story with some small details wrong (there was DS3 on Meeke's own pre-Germany 2016 test before Loebs Catalunya test for example).


Any evidence of this? I had a look through the test schedule based on tweets and news stories:



#TEST1
15/04/16
France
Gravel


#TEST2
10/05/16
Portugal
Gravel


#TEST3
07/06/16
Finland
Gravel


#TEST4
02/08/16
Portugal
Gravel


#TEST5
20/07/16
France
Tarmac


#TEST6
03/09/16
Italy
Tarmac


#TEST7
30/09/16
Portugal
Gravel


#TEST8
21/10/16
Spain
Gravel


#TEST9
11/11/16
UK
Gravel



It seems #TEST5 happened before #TEST4 :confused:

A lot of the pictures only show the C3 but would be good to have that claim verified.

[Tarmop]

He probably meant 2017.

[mknight]

Any evidence of this?

Test before germany 2017 with DS3 driven as well is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlAI3DmNOlY (35s in)
and linked here:
https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?107-WRC-Testing&p=1149635&viewfull=1#post1149635
and also on page 61 in this very thread.

First ever test of C3 by Loeb was 6? days later. Test for Catalunya by Loeb with DS3 present was about a month? later.

Anyway the point wasn't to nitpick. It's 14 months ago and if this was oral interview it's not like people should remember all things exactly. Just that when it's written down these kind of small things stand out.

-----------
It seems I introduced double confusion when I wrote germany 2016 in my post and you then responded with test schedule for 2016. Obviously C3 wasn't out before germany 2016...
Sorry for the typo.

[dodge33cymru]

Great interview...thanks a lot!

what still buzzes me and always will (because i have asked this before but havent got an answer) is what went wrong between 2016 and 2017....i remember him sayin good things about the new car in 2016, i think it was at finland that year where he said "just wait till I get into the new car".

But then came 2017 and all is suddenly so wrong.

My guess would be they didn't know what the competition would be like, they could only compare performance to the previous gen of car. Being behind the curve in 2017 led to the inevitable overdriving.

Two sides to this story (car has problems, but Meeke was the development driver of it), but will be good to move on from it. I would have liked to see Meeke at MSport (he may be the only driver on the market capable of winning in it) but glad to see him get another 'final' shot next year.

[wrc2017]

Test before germany 2017 with DS3 driven as well is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlAI3DmNOlY (35s in)
and linked here:
https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?107-WRC-Testing&p=1149635&viewfull=1#post1149635
and also on page 61 in this very thread.

First ever test of C3 by Loeb was 6? days later. Test for Catalunya by Loeb with DS3 present was about a month? later.

Anyway the point wasn't to nitpick. It's 14 months ago and if this was oral interview it's not like people should remember all things exactly. Just that when it's written down these kind of small things stand out.

-----------
It seems I introduced double confusion when I wrote germany 2016 in my post and you then responded with test schedule for 2016. Obviously C3 wasn't out before germany 2016...
Sorry for the typo.

So they only bring the DS3 to a tarmac surface, 1 year after C3 was concieved? on a surface Meeke admits it was OK anyways.
Anyway there is so much more to the interview besides this.
Meeke was told to go out and win, and he said he was stupid enought to do that, and should have quit.
He even offered his resignation.. but they didnt accept.
He also made a effort to negotiate an amicable end, and Citroen didnt reply. So says... 'it will be settled another way'... I presume he means the lawyers, and the word 'will' means it must be ongoing.
Meeke is the truth, and seems to be a man of honestly and integrity. I tend to believe his story, as the evidence is there to support it.
I wonder why Meeke gave interview to Auto Hebdo.. and not the Autosport / David Evans?

[Allez Andruet]

First of all, thank you very much tr4m for posting this. Fascinating read. And props to Meeke for honestly telling things as he sees them. Is it "the truth"? Ofcourse not. But it's the truth for Kris Meeke and that's more than enough.

The only thing not for my liking was the way Meeke tried to play the victim card - so to say - when it came to development of the C3 WRC. Okay, so he was the only test driver without anyone to share the feelings with, and there was no DS3 WRC available for comparison, but... once you've flagged these issues as show-stoppers (you get the assumption from the story that Meeke did just that) and they don't lead to any changes, you basically have two options: to walk away or to stick with your role. And - in my books - choosing the latter means accepting the decision of not changing anything and with that also comes the obligation of not playing the wise guy later on. I.e. if I was mr. Matton or mr. Budar, I'd be pissed off for breaking that "code".

[doubled1978]

So they only bring the DS3 to a tarmac surface, 1 year after C3 was concieved? on a surface Meeke admits it was OK anyways.
Anyway there is so much more to the interview besides this.
Meeke was told to go out and win, and he said he was stupid enought to do that, and should have quit.
He even offered his resignation.. but they didnt accept.
He also made a effort to negotiate an amicable end, and Citroen didnt reply. So says... 'it will be settled another way'... I presume he means the lawyers, and the word 'will' means it must be ongoing.
Meeke is the truth, and seems to be a man of honestly and integrity. I tend to believe his story, as the evidence is there to support it.
I wonder why Meeke gave interview to Auto Hebdo.. and not the Autosport / David Evans?


I have to say on this I tend to agree with you that he is telling the truth, he seems quite open to the fact that he made mistakes, and was equally happy to praise the engine, so it wasn't a complete slagging off of them from start to finish.
But if this is all true, is a damning indictment of Citroen Sport and their refusal to accept the car was fundamentally flawed, and that only when other drivers (Mikk, Loeb, Ostberg) all said the same thing did they have to change their stance.
And lets be honest, anyone who has watched plenty of motorsport could see it was crap. It was obvious from all the on boards that he just didn't trust it, you could see him reluctant to lean on it, and he was opening the steering wherever possible to take the load off the outside rear tyre.

And as for the guys saying he was positive about the car in the early days and now he has changed his mind or was the development driver, what do you expect? that he comes out publicly and slags it off before it's done a rally? That's just stupid to expect that to be the case and if they wouldn't implement the changes he asked for, or as seems even accept that something was wrong what is he supposed to do?

I have to say that it is very rare in any motorsport to see a driver so publicly negative about a previous team, only in Motorbike racing do they seem to let the team have it to quite this extent.

[er88]

The only thing not for my liking was the way Meeke tried to play the victim card - so to say - when it came to development of the C3 WRC. Okay, so he was the only test driver without anyone to share the feelings with, and there was no DS3 WRC available for comparison, but... once you've flagged these issues as show-stoppers (you get the assumption from the story that Meeke did just that) and they don't lead to any changes, you basically have two options: to walk away or to stick with your role. And - in my books - choosing the latter means accepting the decision of not changing anything and with that also comes the obligation of not playing the wise guy later on. I.e. if I was mr. Matton or mr. Budar, I'd be pissed off for breaking that "code".

But he offered his resignation around the time of rally Poland? It was rejected. He probably knew there would've been interest in him from other teams and at that stage Citroen couldn't afford to lose him, as no top driver would've touched the car in its current form.

Then a year later when they start to finally make changes to the car and start to get their house in order, they drop him. And not just drop him, they potentially ruined his career with the rubbish they spouted saying he was danger. Fair enough if they wanted a new driver line-up like Ogier/Lappi for 2019, just say something like "Meeke isn't in our plans going forward so we would like to evaluate other drivers for the rest of 2018, before deciding on our line-up for 2019 at a later date".

[mknight]

they potentially ruined his career with the rubbish they spouted saying he was danger.

While I get he was pissed about that, I really doubt managers of other teams pick drivers based on what Citroen writes in their press release.

[Rally Power]

Meeke is the truth

That’s quite a revelation…I was ever told it was Jesus.

[Allez Andruet]

But he offered his resignation around the time of rally Poland? It was rejected.
Resignation doesn't actually require anyone's approval. Ofcourse Citroen didn't let Meeke resign on his own terms, that's a no-brainer.


Then a year later when they start to finally make changes to the car and start to get their house in order, they drop him. And not just drop him, they potentially ruined his career with the rubbish they spouted saying he was danger.
I still think - based on Meeke's resume on that car (yes, despite those two wins) - you can't really blame Citroen for that decision.

Having said that, I truly hope Kris resurrects his career with that Yaris.

[Barreis]

we will see how much does he worth after 2019

[wrc2017]

we will see how much does he worth after 2019

more than you id say.

[doubled1978]

Whatever Meeke does in the Toyota, good, bad or indifferent, doesn't change anything about what happened at Citroen.

[EstWRC]

Lquippe or whatever that magazine is called sayin that Ogier will have his first test next week in Portugal, 2 days on gravel

[er88]

Lquippe or whatever that magazine is called sayin that Ogier will have his first test next week in Portugal, 2 days on gravelHopefully Lappi too. For his sake.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://parcferme.no/rally/ett-citroen-scenario-kan-fa-ostberg-til-a-legge-opp-umiddelbart/

Mads waiting Citroën decision about 3rd car

[mknight]

I actually agree with him for once. If Citroen is getting a 3rd car he should definitely be placed above Breen for two reasons:
- he typically delivers decent points, which Breen never did (yet?)
- Citroen already have Ogier as title candidate and Lappi as "coming" driver, don't need another "developing" driver
If they are to go for 3rd car it's for manu champ only and then they need a points scorer.

On the other hand I could see Citroen picking someone else than Østberg as well. Most of all Sordo, which despite all the rumors still has not been announced at Hyundai. He will want to do tarmac rounds just like Loeb though. Paddon for part-season with Loeb doing just 3-4 tarmac rounds could also be good choice.

[spiderem]

I actually agree with him for once. If Citroen is getting a 3rd car he should definitely be placed above Breen for two reasons:
- he typically delivers decent points, which Breen never did (yet?)
- Citroen already have Ogier as title candidate and Lappi as "coming" driver, don't need another "developing" driver
If they are to go for 3rd car it's for manu champ only and then they need a points scorer.

On the other hand I could see Citroen picking someone else than Østberg as well. Most of all Sordo, which despite all the rumors still has not been announced at Hyundai. He will want to do tarmac rounds just like Loeb though. Paddon for part-season with Loeb doing just 3-4 tarmac rounds could also be good choice.

Sordo has been confirmed at Hyundai for 10 rounds?.

[mknight]

Sordo has been confirmed at Hyundai for 10 rounds?.
I didn't follow that. Sry

[AnttiL]

Not confirmed yet, but believed to be confirmed soon.

[AnttiL]

Apparently L'Equipe states that Abu Dhabi won't be backing Citroen in 2019.

Subsequently, only two cars. http://www.sport365.fr/rallye-wrc-sebastien-loeb-absent-2019-8697607.html

[bjalverud]

Yes, as already mentionned on Twitter
https://www.lequipe.fr/Rallye/Actualites/Rallye-wrc-pas-de-place-pour-sebastien-loeb-en-2019/963796?fbclid=IwAR29lD3PCHxP6HzLFr3qZBoQrmGg3Bh0oG emwN_OJ8wh4PzgNeATM0iTQp4

[tomhlord]

Apparently L'Equipe states that Abu Dhabi won't be backing Citroen in 2019.

Subsequently, only two cars. http://www.sport365.fr/rallye-wrc-sebastien-loeb-absent-2019-8697607.html

Throws the remaining seats up in the air if true. Breen, Ostberg, Evans, Loeb, Camilli, Tidemand – I thought Silly Season was mostly wrapped up, it's not.

[T16]

Apparently L'Equipe states that Abu Dhabi won't be backing Citroen in 2019.

Subsequently, only two cars. http://www.sport365.fr/rallye-wrc-sebastien-loeb-absent-2019-8697607.html

Makes you wonder what the hell they were doing talking about running four cars.. Sound's like it may have come as a shock maybe?

[AnttiL]

Makes you wonder what the hell they were doing talking about running four cars.. Sound's like it may have come as a shock maybe?

I still think Budar was only talking about a possible third car, never about a fourth car.

[Tarmop]

I think its no problem for RB and PSA to run Loeb in some outings, the publicity which pays for it.

[dimviii]

I do not know yet where I will be from January 25 to 27, but a little advice ... be present at All Sports Management ��

https://www.facebook.com/167684333282458/posts/2239974309386773/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fingers crossed the Sheikh wants to carry on in WRC and brings his money to M-Sport.

[spiderem]

Could Qatar be back in the game? Any words or gossips from Nasser?

Would be nice if Abu Dhabi goes back to M-Sport like in the Gronholm / Hirvonen days...

[Mirek]

Nasser will do RX with Škoda.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Nasser will do RX with Škoda.

M-Sport's sponsor search is going to be even tougher then.

My best hope for them now is Østberg if he wants a full 2019 programme.

[SubaruNorway]

M-Sport's sponsor search is going to be even tougher then.

My best hope for them now is Østberg if he wants a full 2019 programme.

Mads does not bring money, says he has no chance of bringing the money to pay for a third car

[Tarmop]

Why not, previously he has?

[BigWorm]

Maybe if Lappi is not performing they might be tempted to swap again? They certainly haven't been afraid to do so.

But then again, without Abu Dhabi it might be more difficult.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Mads does not bring money, says he has no chance of bringing the money to pay for a third car

Got the interview / quotes ? Would be interesting to read.

BTW did he ever sell his 2017 Fiesta ?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Found this:
"I'm very, very disappointed right now. We are shocked and surprised, as much as Citroën itself is. We had a good chat earlier this week where I received good signals that there was room for me in the team as long as there was a budget for it. Now there is no budget, and there has never been an option for me to pay for that place. There is talk of so much money, regardless of the fact that I'm just annoyed, because that money is not possible for me anyway", he says.

More: https://www.tv2.no/a/10253374/

[Essaj]

Sadly as much the new generation WRC cars brought hype and exictment into the sport it also made the expenses insanely high. It's bit of Double edged sword but we need more big sponsors into the sport to make this work.

[SubaruNorway]

Got the interview / quotes ? Would be interesting to read.

BTW did he ever sell his 2017 Fiesta ?

To Estonia, Georg Gross.

I wonder if something made Abu Dhabi suddenly leave, seems like nobody in Citroen knew before the tests started this week

[Sulland]

Sadly as much the new generation WRC cars brought hype and exictment into the sport it also made the expenses insanely high. It's bit of Double edged sword but we need more big sponsors into the sport to make this work.

We reached the point where private teams no longer can sture the pot in some rallies. The 2017 cars have become too sophisticated. So even with the money, you do not get all the needed software to tweek and maintain the car.

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/madsostberg/status/1068595788589211648

No seats for Østberg

[deephouse]

Bastards. Now I can say that I really hope that they will burn in both titles next year. They are not the real team and don't care if nobody agrees with me. Better if they were not around at all.

[er88]

They're so strange. Have been since they returned to the WRC.

They surely won't win a manufacturer's title with two cars, unless Loeb does a biggish program in a 3rd. And if Loeb does 6-8 events, then surely they scrape some money together to run Mads in the remaining events. Mads maybe can't bring a big budget anymore but im sure he could still bring some to help run a partial program.

And then there's the issue of Loeb doing events potentially causing angst with Ogier, considering his recent comments about guest drivers.

If they are only targeting the drivers title then that means Lappi is even more going to be Ogier's bitch, and forced to drop positions and potentially play the Evans role for him. Which makes it strange why he'd go there.


Real shame if they don't run 3cars.

[the sniper]

They surely won't win a manufacturer's title with two cars, unless Loeb does a biggish program in a 3rd. And if Loeb does 6-8 events, then surely they scrape some money together to run Mads in the remaining events. Mads maybe can't bring a big budget anymore but im sure he could still bring some to help run a partial program.

Part of me wonders whether that was the plan, but Citroen tried to take advantage and squeeze some money out of Mads to subsidise the limited program they offered him, and he essentially told them sod off because it's an insult. He's done a reasonable job for them this year, why should he pay them to likely score them a decent number of points for the manufacturers on the few rounds they'll give him?

With Mads out, if Loeb does do around 8 rallies, maybe it'd make sense for EVEN to further cement their new relationship with Citroen by paying for Tidemand to do the remaining rounds in their 3rd car. Though there doesn't seem to be much prospect of getting a return on their investment with PSA in future, given how cheap they seem to be...

[Zeakiwi]

Will Mads be building his own R4 Citroen, Ford or something else to keep the costs under control for a bit of club rallying back in the snow and ice of Norway?

Ring up Prokop, for the plans to build a Ford 4x4 Rally Raid machine?

Rig up a prototype for testing for electric WRX to get some data, for when the Tesla Model Y hits the road for an electric wrx entry.

Dust off the Subaru WRC to remind Subaru USA he drives subarus. (In case Higgins is getting weary of winning the North American rally title)

Take up Truck racing.

[er88]

Part of me wonders whether that was the plan, but Citroen tried to take advantage and squeeze some money out of Mads to subsidise the limited program they offered him, and he essentially told them sod off because it's an insult. He's done a reasonable job for them this year, why should he pay them to likely score them a decent number of points for the manufacturers on the few rounds they'll give him?

With Mads out, if Loeb does do around 8 rallies, maybe it'd make sense for EVEN to further cement their new relationship with Citroen by paying for Tidemand to do the remaining rounds in their 3rd car. Though there doesn't seem to be much prospect of getting a return on their investment with PSA in future, given how cheap they seem to be...That wouldn't surprise me one bit. Everytime Budar was asked about the 3rd car he said they were talking to partners to try and find extra budget. Mads being someone who's brought budget to teams previously was no doubt one of those options in their eyes. But it is kind of taking the piss I suppose, if Mads was only going to get a partial campaign at most.

Fair enough if they wanted him to help fund a full season, but not if he's just getting the left over rallies Loeb doesn't want to do. Mads is a very solid driver and would help them massively in the manufacturers, probably a perfect typical 3rd driver like Sordo.

As for Tidemand I hope he can at least get something together. It really is getting near make or break for him and Kalle's speed against him won't have helped. But he still deserves an opportunity in the top class, and if I was Malcolm I'd rather give Tidemand a chance over a 5th season for Evans.

[Tarmop]

To Estonia, Georg Gross.

I wonder if something made Abu Dhabi suddenly leave, seems like nobody in Citroen knew before the tests started this week

Probably just easier to tape it, than remove it from the livery. Didn`t Mads buy a C3 R5?
(Tänak actually bought that Fiesta.)

[EstWRC]

Sebastien Ogier says he can see potential with the Citroen C3 WRC after his first two days testing the car he will drive in next year’s World Rally Championship.

The Frenchman, who has departed M-Sport after back-to-back drivers’ titles, drove the Citroen on a gravel development test in the Algarve area of southern Portugal.

Thursday and Friday were Ogier’s first miles of any significance in the car. He first drove a C3 – with M-Sport team principal Malcolm Wilson’s blessing – in France in September.

Six-time champion Ogier said: “It’s an interesting challenge and I really think there’s potential, with the equipment here to write a nice story.

“But that’s not something that you can do on your own.

“This is just the first day, so from here on it’s going to be important to quickly see what works and what works less well to try to feel as well prepared as possible from Monte-Carlo.”

Ogier will test the Citroen for a further two days in the French Alps later this month, as he prepares himself for next month’s season opener, the Monte Carlo Rally.


Ogier said his two days in Portugal had been key to assessing which areas of the car needed immediate focus.

“[This is] an important test focussing on dampers, which are obviously key in rallying," Ogier said.

"So we’re straight into one of the most important aspects to check and take decisions about, which will have an influence on the future.

“There are of course lots of areas for us on the car to look at and this will take a bit of time: differential, for example, but again but my initial feeling is not too bad and I’m sure we’ll find the right solutions quite quickly.”

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/ogier-citroen-return-test/4307075/


I would really like to hear what Lappi has to say.

[wia5958]

a month to get the car as he wants it seems a very short time given that he mentioned both the dampers and diffs. Will be interesting to hear his first stage end interview in monte just comparing ogiers forst comments on the c3 to meekes first comments on the yaris big difference

[mknight]

Ogier always complains (not meant as an insult), it's just how he is.
Meekes first Toyota interview was "everything is great here, everything was bad at Citroen".

[Coach 2]

" Which makes it strange why he'd go there."

This kind of comment must end here and now. Why do so many think that it is up to the drivers, where or for which team they end up driving.
The vast majority of drivers (maybe apart from one) are in the team that team managers, sponsors and driver managers decide.


[/QUOTE]

[Coach 2]

[QUOTE=er88;1201093]They're so strange. Have been since they returned to the WRC.

They surely won't win a manufacturer's title with two cars, unless Loeb does a biggish program in a 3rd. And if Loeb does 6-8 events, then surely they scrape some money together to run Mads in the remaining events. Mads maybe can't bring a big budget anymore but im sure he could still bring some to help run a partial program.

And then there's the issue of Loeb doing events potentially causing angst with Ogier, considering his recent comments about guest drivers.

If they are only targeting the drivers title then that means Lappi is even more going to be Ogier's bitch, and forced to drop positions and potentially play the Evans role for him.

" Which makes it strange why he'd go there."


This kind of comment must end here and now. Why do so many think that it is up to the drivers, where or for which team they end up driving.
The vast majority of drivers (maybe apart from one) are in the team that team managers, sponsors and driver managers decide.

[SubaruNorway]

Probably just easier to tape it, than remove it from the livery. Didn`t Mads buy a C3 R5?
(Tänak actually bought that Fiesta.)

Yeah mid way through Thursday's test i think?

Haven't heard anything about that, doesn't seem like a car worth buying anyway, like the previous model.
I drove 3 hours to a winter test with that once and then the revers gear broke after two runs...

Østberg's don't have any Impreza WRC left, only a Legacy Gr.A.

If there's any truth to Lappi faling out with the team after that little testing incident that must be part of the reason he went to Citroen i guess.

[T16]

Don't know where to post this (I'm sure Eddie will put me right) but this is Been, today driving a 6R4 on Moll's Gap.

He is wearing Citroen gloves, so I can't be the far off... anyway, it's just a bit special, enjoy.

https://www.facebook.com/CraigBreenOfficial/videos/338735410011197/UzpfSTI5NjY3ODY5NzE2MTQ2NzoxMDY4OTM1OTc2NjAyMzk4/?jazoest=26510012111911048112811101185110010690114 79675080808010068109105954510269116711156697805511 88676565453115106105655865100121117971179795706786 53106528711011010710811155661107256103887056110771 20855311580115117815412010456724881

ah yeah, sorry, but I could only find a Facebook version thus far.

[dimviii]

https://twitter.com/F_Gustavsson/status/1068803632538234881

[wrc2017]

ogier..

"initial feeling is not too bad.."
"I'm sure we'll find the right solutions quite quickly.."
"focusing on dampers"
"But that's not something that you can do on your own"
"I really think there's potential"

to me ... he was not that impressed
and this the is rehomolgated C3 compared with what 2017 and 1/2 2018 season was..

[wia5958]

Im a fan of craigs but right through his career ive noticed how much he moves the steering midway through a lot of corners lots of sharp turn in straighten wheel turn in again straighten wheel turn in again. And all that in quite a fast corner. If he could tidy that up he would b much quicker n probably a few less spins

[Norm75]

Im a fan of craigs but right through his career ive noticed how much he moves the steering midway through a lot of corners lots of sharp turn in straighten wheel turn in again straighten wheel turn in again. And all that in quite a fast corner. If he could tidy that up he would b much quicker n probably a few less spins

I watched a motoring programme, not too long ago, where one of the presenters went on a driving course with a fella that teaches a lot of formula one drivers methods to make them quicker around a track. The drivers included several world champs, I believe, and they come back for refresher courses with him. It's all done in a stock vauxhall astra, so it's purely down to method making them quicker.
One of the methods taught, is contrary to using smooth steering inputs. It is to turn in quite sharp, straighten the wheel, turn in sharp again, straighten, and so on, effectively making a smooth curve into a 50p piece shape (apologies if not from UK and don't know what 50p is)

[T16]

I watched a motoring programme, not too long ago, where one of the presenters went on a driving course with a fella that teaches a lot of formula one drivers methods to make them quicker around a track. The drivers included several world champs, I believe, and they come back for refresher courses with him. It's all done in a stock vauxhall astra, so it's purely down to method making them quicker.
One of the methods taught, is contrary to using smooth steering inputs. It is to turn in quite sharp, straighten the wheel, turn in sharp again, straighten, and so on, effectively making a smooth curve into a 50p piece shape (apologies if not from UK and don't know what 50p is)

Interesting points, but I think Breen would have done everything to eliminate something so obvious from his technique, if is was causing such time loss (I guess).
Wasn't Sainz renowned for the same sort of thing?

[Norm75]

Interesting points, but I think Breen would have done everything to eliminate something so obvious from his technique, if is was causing such time loss (I guess).
Wasn't Sainz renowned for the same sort of thing?

That is my point. Breens steering inputs are similar to those taught as I mention above, it's all about steering with more angle, straightening up the wheel maybe several times through a corner to keep the road wheels as straight as possible through the corner, creating less friction and therefore more speed.

For anyone interested, the guy is called Rob Wilson if you want to read about some of his theories.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

@wia5958 Its a well-known technique that even road drivers like myself use. Turn sharply and then straighen is to 'prepare' the tyre for corner. It then it takes the next input more easily. This is rather than going from totally settled on the straight to fully unsettled as it goes into a corner.

[T16]

That is my point. Breens steering inputs are similar to those taught as I mention above, it's all about steering with more angle, straightening up the wheel maybe several times through a corner to keep the road wheels as straight as possible through the corner, creating less friction and therefore more speed.

For anyone interested, the guy is called Rob Wilson if you want to read about some of his theories.

I think I’ve seen the same thing.... to be fair, if they can pedal an Astra at speed, they’re ready for anything.

Loads of different techniques out there I guess. Schumacher was renowned for tipping the thing in its side in a very aggressive manner, whereas Button was super- smooth in the turn-in phase.

[wia5958]

Thanks eddie never new how to take a corner before. N my point is its an awful lot of movement on fast corners where straighten n open wouldn apply as much places where its not actually needed but hey what do i know

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Breen just retired in the 6R4 with a broken propshaft.

[Rally Power]

Part of me wonders whether that was the plan, but Citroen tried to take advantage and squeeze some money out of Mads to subsidise the limited program they offered him, and he essentially told them sod off because it's an insult. He's done a reasonable job for them this year, why should he pay them to likely score them a decent number of points for the manufacturers on the few rounds they'll give him?

That’s a bit harsh, even Ostberg recognizes that in 2018 he got a much better deal than initially expected: https://www.facebook.com/MadsOstbergRally/photos/a.575916392475310/2030481013685500/?type=3&theater

Since the beginning, Budar said he was only sure about having 2 cars in 2019, the third would depend on Abu Dhabi talks and, apparently, those didn’t end in a positive way. For sure it’s a bit frustrating not seeing Citroen fighting for the manus tile, still they seem to be in a much better position than last year, after signing the 2 best drivers available, one of them incidentally the current, for the 6th time, world champ.

[wrc2017]

That’s a bit harsh, even Ostberg recognizes that in 2018 he got a much better deal than initially expected: https://www.facebook.com/MadsOstbergRally/photos/a.575916392475310/2030481013685500/?type=3&theater

Since the beginning, Budar said he was only sure about having 2 cars in 2019, the third would depend on Abu Dhabi talks and, apparently, those didn’t end in a positive way. For sure it’s a bit frustrating not seeing Citroen fighting for the manus tile, still they seem to be in a much better position than last year, after signing the 2 best drivers available, one of them incidentally the current, for the 6th time, world champ.

so does this def mean no Loeb either?

[AnttiL]

so does this def mean no Loeb either?

Apparently it means no Loeb

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140455/loeb-wont-get-citroen-wrc-outings-in-2019

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Loeb saying he's open to drive for any team, but can he bring any sponsorship money as Red Bull is with Ogier at Citroen ?

And I cant really believe that he could drive for a competitor against Citroen.

[RAS007]

Loeb saying he's open to drive for any team, but can he bring any sponsorship money as Red Bull is with Ogier at Citroen ?

And I cant really believe that he could drive for a competitor against Citroen.

Would be great to finally see Loeb diving something other than a Citroen.

[Franky]

Loeb saying he's open to drive for any team, but can he bring any sponsorship money as Red Bull is with Ogier at Citroen ?

Are you serious with the idea of "Loeb bringing money to a team"? That's as good as saying Loeb is a pay driver.

[Rally Power]

Loeb saying he's open to drive for any team, but can he bring any sponsorship money as Red Bull is with Ogier at Citroen ?

‘with any team in any discipline’

Loeb’s said it before to the French press: his main plan for 2019 is to do a full WRX season with his own team running the 208’s, with some help from Peugeot; somehow the program seems to be stuck, so he’s probably pressuring PSA to push it forwards.

A few C3 WRC outings are an extra and probably not that important for him or Citroen atm.

[Rallyper]

So, highest wishful thinking is Loeb bringing money to MSport, whom then afford Ostberg and Tidemand as 2nd and 3rd drivers. What a dream!!

[Tarmop]

Are you serious with the idea of "Loeb bringing money to a team"? That's as good as saying Loeb is a pay driver.

Well, actually, Loeb bringing sponsors (aka money) is another story.

[T16]

Loeb saying he's open to drive for any team, but can he bring any sponsorship money as Red Bull is with Ogier at Citroen ?

And I cant really believe that he could drive for a competitor against Citroen.

Red bull were with Ogier at Ford last year, but they were also with Peugeot in Rallycross..

[Tarmop]

RB is everywhere...Sordo, Neuville, Evans etc...just not the title sponsor, but when we are talking about a legend called Loeb doing a few events, then i why not... I believe Wilson would be also quite flexible.

[er88]

I don't think Loeb not doing any events next year for Citroen has anything to do with money.

More likely to do with Ogier not being happy about Loeb coming in for just a few rallies. Seems pretty clear already that Citroen have given him all they can, in terms of a massive contract, full backing on how to improve the car (with big developments on the way anyway), plus probably a say over this matter.

Ogier did say he would like Loeb in the team if he was doing a full season, but having Loeb turn up when he wants clearly pisses him off.

No way i am believing Citroen couldn't find money to give Mr Loeb a few rallies..., it probably pays for itself in terms of sponsorship and publicity.

[NoFear85]

Redbull with Loeb at Citroen? Can they pay him for a drive?

[reff92]

With two cars it's extreamly difficult to win manufacture title. I remember clearly when Ogier sayd something like that :"Seems Citroen does not do things half way as before"

I dont belive that citreon hire ogier just for him to get his 7-th title. To play all your cars just for two cars would be unbelivable for me because Lappi isn't a very stable driver yet

[Tarmop]

Budar said it right after the news, they had hired Ogier- they were going only for the drivers title and probably with two cars, trying for three on some occasions. And this is how it is going...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Red bull were with Ogier at Ford last year, but they were also with Peugeot in Rallycross..

So what, different series.

[able1]

I belive we will see Loeb driving a ford 3-4 times.

[T16]

So what, different series.

They have expendable budget that they probably aren’t going to use, given the implosion of world rallycross.

[T16]

I don't think Loeb not doing any events next year for Citroen has anything to do with money.

More likely to do with Ogier not being happy about Loeb coming in for just a few rallies. Seems pretty clear already that Citroen have given him all they can, in terms of a massive contract, full backing on how to improve the car (with big developments on the way anyway), plus probably a say over this matter.


Ogier did say he would like Loeb in the team if he was doing a full season, but having Loeb turn up when he wants clearly pisses him off.

No way i am believing Citroen couldn't find money to give Mr Loeb a few rallies..., it probably pays for itself in terms of sponsorship and publicity.

Can't argue with any of that. Definitely looks like they took a U-turn after seemingly teeing him up not so long ago.

[deephouse]

NOT could use his words against Citroens. We could really back him here.

[AnttiL]

NOT could use his words against Citroens. We could really back him here.

Not an Arab team anymore

[RS]

Budar said it right after the news, they had hired Ogier- they were going only for the drivers title and probably with two cars, trying for three on some occasions. And this is how it is going...

The drivers’ title has more recognition than the manufacturers and AFAIK there is no prize money for manufacturers championship position like there is in F1.

[Tarmop]

Depends, for who, after those statements, Citroen for sure, Mäkinen also, BUT, Mr. Toyoda has been talking about the manuf. championship right from the start.

[deephouse]

Not an Arab team anymore

Still shitty team despite Arabs leaving. Probably will be even more without money.

[Rally Power]

Still shitty team despite Arabs leaving. Probably will be even more without money.

What’s your problem?

Besides being a major WRC player for almost 2 decades, Citroen has been involved in Rally for much longer, continuously helping the sport growth by providing affordable rally cars to privateers or organizing monotype cups in national or regional series. That’s why they deserve rally fans respect and posts like yours can only look ridiculous.

[dodge33cymru]

What’s your problem?

Besides being a major WRC player for almost 2 decades, Citroen has been involved in Rally for much longer, continuously helping the sport growth by providing affordable rally cars to privateers or organizing monotype cups in national or regional series. That’s why they deserve rally fans respect and posts like yours can only look ridiculous.

Great post.

1) Rally is about a lot more than WRC and Citroen have been providing cars at various levels for as long as I remember. WRCs, Kit cars, S1600s, R3s, R5s..

2) Over the past ten years, Citroen have been the biggest supporter of WRC entries going. Arguably there wouldn't be a WRC without their presence between 2008 and 2012.

[Duvel]

Great post.

1) Rally is about a lot more than WRC and Citroen have been providing cars at various levels for as long as I remember. WRCs, Kit cars, S1600s, R3s, R5s..

2) Over the past ten years, Citroen have been the biggest supporter of WRC entries going. Arguably there wouldn't be a WRC without their presence between 2008 and 2012.




+1

Credits to rallypower also!

[dimviii]

also dont forget that because psa paid,we knew today Loeb Ogier Neuville.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Great post.

1) Rally is about a lot more than WRC and Citroen have been providing cars at various levels for as long as I remember. WRCs, Kit cars, S1600s, R3s, R5s..

2) Over the past ten years, Citroen have been the biggest supporter of WRC entries going. Arguably there wouldn't be a WRC without their presence between 2008 and 2012.

+ 2

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Still makes no sense to bring in the main man Ogier and then pay for only one team-mate. I bet he didnt expect that when he signed.

[Tarmop]

He got a competitive (hopefully the Lappi we saw in 2017) wingman and that's all he needs for his title fight, no one else out there anyway.

[dodge33cymru]

Still makes no sense to bring in the main man Ogier and then pay for only one team-mate. I bet he didnt expect that when he signed.

"Hey, Seb, we can either give you this money or pay for a car for Craig and Mads for a year - which do you want?"

[denkimi]

He got a competitive (hopefully the Lappi we saw in 2017) wingman and that's all he needs for his title fight, no one else out there anyway.
Why settle for 1 wingman when you can have 2 or even more?

[Tarmop]

Who? Loeb, OK, some quest appearances from Östberg and that`s pretty much it. Toyota`s lineup has fast drivers capable of bringing home a podium and Tänak maybe even a victory on every event, then we have Hyundai, pretty much settled...sort of and who do we have left, capable of fighting in the top, every event?

E: Like AnttiL said, Loeb is never going to be a wingman.:D

[AnttiL]

Why settle for 1 wingman when you can have 2 or even more?

I think we all understand that Loeb would never be Ogier's wingman.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

"Hey, Seb, we can either give you this money or pay for a car for Craig and Mads for a year - which do you want?"

You think Ogier would prefer a bigger wage (to add to his millions) over a better chance of another Title ?

No.

[Tarmop]

But how much would Breen and Ostberg help Ogier with his title?
https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/69-mads-oestberg/
https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/5636-craig-breen/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

More team-mates = more options. Even Evans and Suninen were important to Ogier in 2018.

Ogier while discussing with Citroen and pre-signing:
"I wanted to know more about the commitment [from the manufacturer] and we're getting that." :D

[dodge33cymru]

You think Ogier would prefer a bigger wage (to add to his millions) over a better chance of another Title ?

No.

OK, how about "Hey, Seb, we can either use this money to hire Mads or use the money to pay for extra development on your car for the year - which do you want?"

?