Citroen WRT

[Simmi]

Story in MN today with Kris Meeke saying he thinks it's wrong that Citroen have dropped Breen for three events. He's pleased to see Loeb join the team but thinks it shouldn't have been at the expense of a full-season drive for Craig.

Nice to see someone come out and say it like it is. Story up online soon I assume.

[ESTR]

Story in MN today with Kris Meeke saying he thinks it's wrong that Citroen have dropped Breen for three events. He's pleased to see Loeb join the team but thinks it shouldn't have been at the expense of a full-season drive for Craig.

Nice to see someone come out and say it like it is. Story up online soon I assume.

Well Meeke can say goodbye to the WRC... and I think he will...

[itix]

Well Meeke can say goodbye to the WRC... and I think he will...

Well if he does another season like this one his drive options will pretty much involve a yellow sign on the roof... he'd fully deserve it too.

The worst thing is that he doesn't seem to realize just how disastrous his campaign was. When WRC TV asked them to rate their season he gave it a 6/10 "because we showed some speed". Really Meeke? You and Paddon were the only ones to write off a body shell this season and you wrote off TWO. Paddon actually knows his season was shit and gave it negative figures out of 10... and he showed some speed too.

Meeke will never learn untill he swallows humble pills for real and get his act together.

[lankey555]

Well if he does another season like this one his drive options will pretty much involve a yellow sign on the roof... he'd fully deserve it too.

The worst thing is that he doesn't seem to realize just how disastrous his campaign was. When WRC TV asked them to rate their season he gave it a 6/10 "because we showed some speed". Really Meeke? You and Paddon were the only ones to write off a body shell this season and you wrote off TWO. Paddon actually knows his season was shit and gave it negative figures out of 10... and he showed some speed too.

Meeke will never learn untill he swallows humble pills for real and get his act together.


How many rallies did Paddon win this year??? Yes Kris may not of had a great year but the car had problems which was expressed through ALL who drove it!!!

[AnttiL]

Meeke's season was better than Paddon's, but Paddon had a co-driver change, girlfriend change and the spectator accident none of which was not his fault. Also the car was better suited to other drivers in the team and he crashed from the one rally he was leading. He also suffered a number of technical problems on rallies where he could have been successful. (Sweden, Mexico, Portugal).

[Barreis]

Meeke is best when season is 'over' for him

[er88]

Meeke won 2rallies and it most likely would've been 3 had the car not broken down in Corsica. Every driver who has driven the C3 has complained about how narrow an operating window it has, and the clear faults that exist. These are just facts, just like how he crashed to much by pushing the car too hard at times.

So 6/10 for his season is probably fair.




Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[pantealex]

Meeke's season was better than Paddon's, but Paddon had a co-driver change, girlfriend change and the spectator accident none of which was not his fault. Also the car was better suited to other drivers in the team and he crashed from the one rally he was leading. He also suffered a number of technical problems on rallies where he could have been successful. (Sweden, Mexico, Portugal).

Maybe change of girlfriend was his own fault ;)

[pantealex]

Meeke won 2rallies and it most likely would've been 3 had the car not broken down in Corsica. Every driver who has driven the C3 has complained about how narrow an operating window it has, and the clear faults that exist. These are just facts, just like how he crashed to much by pushing the car too hard at times.

So 6/10 for his season is probably fair.

OK car was/is bad. Who was developing it? test driver 2016?

Meeke!

[tommeke_B]

I don't think it's right to blame Meeke too much for all what's wrong with the C3 WRC... We cannot tell how much influence he had on the people who designed/engineered the car. The struggle Citroën is going through reminds me of the days Peugeot had the 307.

[dimviii]

OK car was/is bad. Who was developing it? test driver 2016?

Meeke!

test/develop driver, cant do whatever he wants to the car. he can give his opinion/feedback,if they will listen to him and act accordingly is a different matter.

[Barreis]

Meeke wants stereo crashes
http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/133770

[KiwiWRCfan]

Kris Meeke interview with Ulster Radio https://clyp.it/fb4i5lvg
Open & honest review of 2017 season and looking ahead to 2018
Includes comment that it was Kris's own call to step aside for Rally Poland

[Rally Power]

Kris Meeke interview with Ulster Radio https://clyp.it/fb4i5lvg
Open & honest review of 2017 season and looking ahead to 2018
Includes comment that it was Kris's own call to step aside for Rally Poland

That’s quite a revelation! So, what will now say the brit journos and Meeke fans that eagerly crucified Matton?

[nafpaktos]

Kris Meeke interview with Ulster Radio https://clyp.it/fb4i5lvg
Open & honest review of 2017 season and looking ahead to 2018
Includes comment that it was Kris's own call to step aside for Rally Poland

i remember kris being disappointed for not competing in poland.if i am not mistaken he has said that it was not right decision to stay out from rally poland and matton has said that it was mutual decision.I believe that know kris try to rebuilt his relationship with matton by refute what actually said in the past.pathetic!!

[dimviii]

i remember kris being disappointed for not competing in poland.if i am not mistaken he has said that it was not right decision to stay out from rally poland and matton has said that it was mutual decision.!

thats what i remember too from their interviews.Strange...

[wrc2017]

we will see...

[Rally Power]

we will see...

Actually, this one is about what we’ve seen. The Poland episode was reported by some press as a disloyalty to Meeke and all sort of negative comments were then made on Matton and Citroen. The same press that, all season long, was eager to portray Meeke as a victim of an incompetent team, forgetting he was involved since day one on the C3 testing and development.

Despite the troubled waters, Meeke was kept on the team and they’re ALL together trying their best in order to make the C3 a title contender. Hopefully they’ll succeed but even if they don’t, their effort should always be regarded in an unbiased way.

[er88]

The team was shown to be pretty incompetent I'm afraid, otherwise people wouldn't have been sacked and replaced.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[wrc2017]

we will see..

[skarderud]

Mads Østberg drives sweden for citröen. Is it 3. Car or PH car?

Sent fra min XP7700 via Tapatalk

[dimviii]

Mads Østberg drives sweden for citröen. Is it 3. Car or PH car?

Sent fra min XP7700 via Tapatalk
official car


Mads Østberg
I'm happy to announce that I'm back in @CitroenRacing for @RallySweden #fightingviking #backinthegame
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTQm0kDWAAA4bdx.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTQnGj1XcAMfvvZ.jpg

[dimviii]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/133844/citroen-to-run-third-car-for-ostberg-in-sweden

[AnttiL]

Mads Østberg drives sweden for citröen. Is it 3. Car or PH car?

Sent fra min XP7700 via Tapatalk

What a surprise, but a positive one! I think PH Sport was mentioned

[RS]

Moany Mads and the C3 WRC does not seem like a match made in heaven.

[Tarmop]

Interesting, could he be aiming for a C3 R5 factory-seat with some starts in a special-deal WRC? I can`t think of any other reasons, why he should prefer C3 WRC to M-Sport`s Fiesta, which he is familiar with and which is the current champion.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Interesting, could he be aiming for a C3 R5 factory-seat with some starts in a special-deal WRC? I can`t think of any other reasons, why he should prefer C3 WRC to M-Sport`s Fiesta, which he is familiar with and which is the current champion.

He fell out M-Sport last year over lack of parts and upgrades for his Fiesta.

[Tarmop]

Yes, but that was HIS Fiesta and his private operation. He could do what others have done and will do (Bertelli, Kremer) and just pay the sum, fly to the event/test with two hands in his pockets and leave the same way. I don`t think that he gets to drive the C3 WRC free in a situation, where Citroen`s 2. and last manuf. paid car is shared between 2 drivers. Lets also not forget, that one car won two championships, he has experience with it and the other cas is capricious (rally Sweden being one of those "not suitable events") and was last.

[RS]

Maybe MSport are 'full up' for Sweden with Suninen joining in? Or at least have three cars there already so won't subsidise one for Mads?

[Tarmop]

Maybe...although last year they also operated with 3+1, one being in S.-America. But like discussed everywhere, Ostberg may get into WRC2 and C3 R5 is thought to be competitive.

[Mintexmemory]

Ostberg wasn’t at his best in the DS3 last time he was at Citroen but it seems they wanted an ice ‘specialist’ for Sweden ( however, they chose Mads anyway 🙃)

[ESTR]

Ostberg wasn’t at his best in the DS3 last time he was at Citroen but it seems they wanted an ice ‘specialist’ for Sweden ( however, they chose Mads anyway ��)

Well, he climb to 4th place overall that year.

[Sulland]

Are there updates from the 17 car for this year?

[Rally Power]

No matter how surprising or strange, its good news for Ostberg and Citroen; hopefully they’ll manage to get 3 cars in all events.

[seb_sh]

A very interesting turn of events but I guess it's a good deal for everyone. Citroen get a consistent driver to score some points, probably get payed to have him drive too, Mads gets to drive a works car that was so and so last year so he has an excuse if it goes wrong.

I guess (pure speculation, haven't read all the details) that this is a one off deal for now though and depending on how it goes he might do a few more rallies.

[Munkvy]

Seems logical to me, a bit like using Bryan for Monte, get someone who knows the roads well and has been competitive there in the past to help boost their chances of getting some points. Lets face it, anything is an improvement on what happened there last year?

Shame though that Loeb can't enter Monte now he has the time on his hands!

[Simmi]

I guess there's an outside chance that Elena might not quite be fit in time for Corsica. A rudimentary google search says recovery time for a fractured coccyx is 8 to 12 weeks. 12 weeks is Corsica. Hopefully he'll be okay but just something to monitor.

[racerx1979]

I guess there's an outside chance that Elena might not quite be fit in time for Corsica. A rudimentary google search says recovery time for a fractured coccyx is 8 to 12 weeks. 12 weeks is Corsica. Hopefully he'll be okay but just something to monitor.

Yeah and Elena needs to drop a few pounds before their WRC return :)

[AnttiL]

I guess there's an outside chance that Elena might not quite be fit in time for Corsica. A rudimentary google search says recovery time for a fractured coccyx is 8 to 12 weeks. 12 weeks is Corsica. Hopefully he'll be okay but just something to monitor.

They are supposed to begin the season already in Mexico, 8 weeks from now

[Simmi]

They are supposed to begin the season already in Mexico, 8 weeks from now

Oh yeah. Completely forgot they were doing Mexico. With all the jumps and rough nature of the rally that could be difficult.

[er88]

So what's the deal with this PH Sport car? Is anyone actually going to pay for It? When it got announced i was under the impression they'd have a car on every event near enough, or wanted that to be the plan.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[tomhlord]

The deal was struck that very morning at the show.

A bit last minute...!

[Eli]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2018/01/13/neue-zuversicht-bei-citroen/
An interview with Matton saying he's confident(ish) that they tackled the reliability issues that hampered the car last season.

[ESTR]

He said also that they are ready for world title at the start of 2017. And that they have believe in youngsters (drop Lefebvre and reduce Breen's season for some old dude). And he said that Meeke's abandon would help him back in the saddle after Poland (well at least that was right, kinda after 2 events).

[AnttiL]

https://rallysportmag.com/interview-matton-shows-new-confidence-at-citroen/

Interview in English. Elena should be OK for Mexico and Østberg may have R5 starts

[Sulland]

Mads has sold at least one of the Fiesta R5s in Adapta to Sweden, so I guess Mads will get a very good price on a C3 R5 or two.
Important to get as much training as possible in a car as close as possible to the WRCar he is to try to get podiums with.
This is of course also in the interest of PSA Sport.

[AnttiL]

Who will take Matton's place at Citroen now?

[dimviii]

Who will take Matton's place at Citroen now?

Pierre Budar was at Psa motorsport customer racing department.
See autosport.com for more

[EstWRC]

New Citroen WRC boss must improve team spirit

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/new-citroen-wrc-boss-must-improve-team-spirit/

[tomhlord]

“The budget for this year is closed,” he said, “we have to live with that and do as well as we can."

That doesn't sound promising to me.

[Watson]

That only means that they won't extend the budget, not that they don't have any. I reckon only Hyundai and Toyota would be capable of raising more money midseason.

Though I have to agree that Citroen not providing three cars on the majority of events is less than promising. They have virtually no chance of winning the manufacturer's.

[tomhlord]

That only means that they won't extend the budget, not that they don't have any.

It's open to interpretation.

[mknight]

“When you look at what Kris did when he won in Finland with the DS3 [in 2016] this was incredible, his speed was so robust and he has such a capacity for speed – we all know just how quick is Kris Meeke and we know it’s possible to win consistently with him.”

The first 3/4 of the quote is totally right, the last part I really wonder how he got that.

[dimviii]

he mentions about the spirit inside the team. Seems there is a serious problem

[Watson]

he mentions about the spirit inside the team. Seems there is a serious problem

That's only natural after such a disastrous season. The thing is that he won't be able to lift the team's spirit for long unless they show results on a more regular basis.

[Myrvold]

We might actually end up in a situation where Serderidis will be nominated to score points! After all, it only takes two WRC cars to retire, and Serderidis to finish and he will be in a potential point scoring situation!

[nafpaktos]

i don't think citroen has future with that kind of approach.I really can't understand why they have small budget.When a big company like citroen enter a world championship must spent some money that goes without saying.I dont think if they spent money wrc they will bunkrupt.i really can't understand their logic(if there is).

[er88]

he mentions about the spirit inside the team. Seems there is a serious problemThere was a pretty big problem, but things improved a lot mid way through last year and helped further with the introduction of Besse.

Meeke didn't feel the support from a few members of the team and felt he wasn't listened to on a number of issues with the car/ what updates they needed to bring.

The penny started to drop when Mikkelsen severely severely struggled in Sardinia, and with Loeb + Mikkelsen both making it clear the car was very difficult to drive even reasonably quickly, in certain conditions. The man who penned and oversaw the designing of the C3 was moved aside, as well as a few other Citroen personnel being moved on. Arrogance and risk taking in the designing and engineering phase cost the team a lot and it took the team a while to realise and admit this (maybe somewhat understandable considering the success that has poured out of this team for 15+years).

There's still a lot of work to do though, and it's a disappointment they've got a smaller budget this year. Even more so when you factor in that they've got Sheikh Khalid's money pumped into the team. If it wasn't for him, I'd guess that Citroen wouldn't even be in the WRC this year.

However this 2018 season could go one of two ways imo; If Citroen can get the car to the drivers liking and improve it even further on all events/ surfaces, this year could be a springboard to get them back to having a full assault in both championships in 2019 (with an increased budget, a proper 3 car team and the addition of a top driver like Ogier). But if they can't find a way to get this car to be more driver friendly, and get Meeke and Breen consistently on the pace on most events, I fear this will be their last season in the WRC and they'll just withdraw.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[GigiGalliNo1]

Already noting Breen's test... and I'm not talking about his off but there is one video he slides quiet WIDE at the rear and a similar video of the Toyota... JML controls the situation.. so perhaps Citroen still haven't gotten that Wild Tail issue fixed...

In saying that - I know conditions are different between the Toyota and Citroen Test ie Road, Ice, Snow etc.

[Watson]

I'm pretty sure the Ogier ship has sailed for good. There was this whole episode with Loeb and when they tried to get him last year they didn't put in a proper offer. He will retire with M-Sport the only question is when.

Citroen should have tied down Mikkelsen when they had the chance.

If they continue in 2019 they have to either grab Sordo or Paddon or go for a youngster like Tidemand.

[AnttiL]

If they continue in 2019 they have to either grab Sordo or Paddon or go for a youngster like Tidemand.

Of course Meeke's and Breen's 2018 performances will make a difference. Will they improve or will they be even weaker than last year?

[Watson]

Of course Meeke's and Breen's 2018 performances will make a difference. Will they improve or will they be even weaker than last year?

I was talking of third driver options. I think Meeke and Breen are more than decent drivers.

[Eli]

Anyway you put it, this very well could be Citroën's last year in the WRC, certainly hope not...

[Rally Power]

i don't think citroen has future with that kind of approach.I really can't understand why they have small budget.When a big company like citroen enter a world championship must spent some money that goes without saying.I dont think if they spent money wrc they will bunkrupt.i really can't understand their logic(if there is).

Apparently, PSA budget cuts were intensified after Opel/VX buy. For sure it's a bit shocking to see Citroen running in such a controlled way, but it’d be worse for the WRC if they had decided to pull out. For now we can just hope the C3 will be fixed and budget restrictions eased up for ’19, if they stick to the original 3 year commitment.

Btw, the rumour about Peugeot taking WRC program makes no sense. Finot (PSA Motorsport boss) made it clear: each group brand would have a single major program and Peugeot is investing in WRX, with 2020 EVs introduction in mind (the future 208 street car is also expected to be launched with an electric version).

[ESTR]

Maybe after all Skoda will replace Citroen..

[Mirek]

Maybe after all Skoda will replace Citroen..

Škoda will likely come only in 2020 with Fabia IV based car.

[racerx1979]

It’s obvious Citroen is now cautious at giving away its future goals or expectations after a horrible 2017. I’m sure they would be more than happy with a few wins and a decent fight for manu points, but they know they had a tough year and they have no idea where they stand until after a few events. Everyone will have upped their game this year. It’s just as exciting as the beginning of 2017 if you ask me. So many unknowns before the start of th season. The addition of Loeb is another weird unknown for th team. Will he do well.. what if he crashes or what if the car can’t be competitive etc. I think there is a lot of pressure for the whole team.

[Myrvold]

Maybe after all Skoda will replace Citroen..

I would hope as an addition, not as a replacement. We need more cars in the top class.

[WUff1]

Maybe after all Skoda will replace Citroen..

I suppose Skoda will replace VW (Polo WRC).

[ESTR]

I would rather see that but hey I'm nobody and that's reality. Hyundai too will soon have enough if they can't be on the top..

[ToughMac]

Is it not just good business sense for manufacturers to alternate between brands? VAG switching from VW to Skoda, PSA switching from Citroen to Peugeot and its not out of the realms of possibility that Hyundai will do the same with Kia. After all the WRC is a promotional shop window. It doesn't really matter to me what the big manufacturers do with their brands as long as they don't leave WRC (or rallying) entirely.

[ESTR]

Where is Renault or Nissan. They could easily step into the game.

[tommeke_B]

Where is Renault or Nissan. They could easily step into the game.
Easily? When watching the last rally cars Renault Sport has built, I'd doubt they could make a competitive and reliable R5 car at this moment, not even talking about WRC...

[Rallyper]

They still have Alpina, don´t they? How is their indoor competence these days? (Talking about Renault that is.)

[ESTR]

I think that if the money is right they could also produce decent machine. Easily can turn to guys like Prodrive, or some other experienced team in motorsport and they're on. Don't measure it by some R3 clios who competed only on Tour De Corse and Monte (I mean in WRC)... Skoda too had crap WRC cars and their R5 is piece of machine that everyone leaves in dust. And Citroen have long history with dominant force and what about now? They can't even know what's wrong with the car.

[denkimi]

don't forget that renault also owns nissan and mitsubishi.

[Rally Power]

RMC Citroen video:
https://www.facebook.com/citroenracing/videos/10155262317127057/

“It’s a great racing team, I trust them a lot, I know they will rebound” - Carlos Tavares, PSA CEO.
Nice encouragement from the Boss!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Meeke pulls no punches...

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/134147/citroen-needs-complete-change-to-win-monte

[mknight]

"It's boring to be clever, but it works sometimes - it's just taken me 30-odd years to work that one out."

*applause*

This might potentially have more impact on his championship hopes than any tweaks to C3.

[Allez Andruet]

Meeke pulls no punches...
The way Meeke has talked about his employer lately (not just in this interview), makes you think that he already knows this will be his last year in the team - if not the last year of the Citroen WRC team. Not saying he wouldn't be right in his statements, it's just quite rare these days to get as candid opinions, and usually they do mean that things are coming to an end.

[spyros]

hopefully he will moove to MSport next year............

[ESTR]

M-Sport will not hire him. The only one that they have been interested is already in the team. And they have Evans and Teemu. Meeke is probably nowhere on the list of any team.

[Rally Power]

The way Meeke has talked about his employer lately (not just in this interview), makes you think that he already knows this will be his last year in the team - if not the last year of the Citroen WRC team. Not saying he wouldn't be right in his statements, it's just quite rare these days to get as candid opinions, and usually they do mean that things are coming to an end.

We can understand how troubled Meeke must have felt after giving all on the last stage of a frustrating rally (started with an unfortunate mistake of his own), but I honestly can’t get what he gains with this public complains on the car and, eventually, the team.

His remarks in last year Germany pre event PC were already beyond any reasonable limit; to see him continuing in this path, giving the press motives to underline a ‘Meeke against the team’ narrative, is a real shame. We can only hope he’ll be able to change this attitude, like apparently he was able to change his driving approach.

Btw, I’m pretty confident Citroen will stay in 2019; not so sure about Meeke.

[mknight]

M-Sport will not hire him. The only one that they have been interested is already in the team. And they have Evans and Teemu. Meeke is probably nowhere on the list of any team.

I can see Hyundai possibly hiring him instead of /if Sordo retires and Paddon does not get back to pre 2017 form.

[AnttiL]

Btw, I’m pretty confident Citroen will stay in 2019; not so sure about Meeke.
Agreed, although it depends on this year's performance. But Meeke's current contract is ending after this season. Same for Breen and Lefebvre, as well as Sordo and Paddon. Meeke is also quite old, maybe it's time to retire?

[Sulland]

Meeke pulls no punches...

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/134147/citroen-needs-complete-change-to-win-monte

Will be very interesting to hear and see Mr Østberg's feelings on the C3, coming with his Fiesta experience.
Not sure how much testing he will get before sweden, but he will need a couple of days.

[racerx1979]

I'm sure Citroen will be more excited to hear about Ostbergs experience in a Fiesta too if they already haven't.

[janvanvurpa]

Will be very interesting to hear and see Mr Østberg's feelings on the C3, coming with his Fiesta experience.
Not sure how much testing he will get before sweden, but he will need a couple of days.

Such a shame they always are so vague.. "Made some improvements"...yeah yeah but say what they did. Deatils are always more interesting..soften the damping? Bars? what?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Citroen boss now interviewed:

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/citroen-boss-wrc-success-not-linked-to-budget/

[er88]

The way Meeke has talked about his employer lately (not just in this interview), makes you think that he already knows this will be his last year in the team - if not the last year of the Citroen WRC team. Not saying he wouldn't be right in his statements, it's just quite rare these days to get as candid opinions, and usually they do mean that things are coming to an end.Nothing wrong about the way he's speaking, he's a competitive driver who wants to win so wants the best and is honest. The bosses agree with him that improvements need to be made and have said it on numerous occasions. There's no point sugar coating anything when every man and his dog can see the problems and everyone in the team will be pushing for better.

Last year (particularly at the start) Ogier was moaning a lot about set up issues and changes he wanted made to the car. This is just what drivers do, even when they have a good car under them like Seb did. They're always wanting more performance from certain areas and for development to increase.

In this specific case here, things are worse as it's the 2nd year in a row the C3 has had the exact same issues as it did 12months ago. The minute you start hearing a driver like Meeke saying the car felt good and he's happy with being nowhere in terms of pace, that's when you can really start worrying about Citroens future and Meeke being resigned to not being able to compete properly at the front.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[ESTR]

Agreed, although it depends on this year's performance. But Meeke's current contract is ending after this season. Same for Breen and Lefebvre, as well as Sordo and Paddon. Meeke is also quite old, maybe it's time to retire?

So it's Ogier, I think that Neuville too. Latvala maybe and Lappi. Only ones that I'm sure that have contracts until 2019 are Mikkelsen & Tanak.

There will be no chance for Meeke, quite sure if there is more drivers free on the market.

[Rally Power]

Last year (particularly at the start) Ogier was moaning a lot about set up issues and changes he wanted made to the car. This is just what drivers do, even when they have a good car under them like Seb did.

Ogier didn’t properly moaned about the car, he just justified feeling unease with it by not having been involved on its early development; Neuville made some inconvenient remarks about his team some years ago, but latter he apologized and calmly accepted being 3rd driver in a couple of events; Latvala only talked about his lower status in VW after leaving and the same did Tanak regarding MSport. Most works drivers realize it’s not in their interest to be in constant public complaining mode about their car and/or team.

There’s no doubt Meeke is a fantastic driver and it’s great to have him in the WRC, but honestly I fear he doesn’t have the right profile to be a leading driver in a WRC team. I also don’t believe he’s an unfortunate victim of a disarrayed French team, like the British press has been eagerly portraying since the problems started; most likely, he also has a share of responsibility (even if small) in Citroen’s current low record.

With or without Meeke, Citroen is one of the most important manus in WRC recent history; I hope they manage to get back into a higher level ASAP and stay in the series for a long time.

[wrc2017]

Meeke would drive for nothing, to be world rally champion, that i am sure.
He has more desire and heart than any other WRC driver.
He says what he thinks, and what he believes to be honest. If people don't like that, that your problem.
If you want a politically correct rally driver, you have chosen the wrong man
He would gladly walk off into the distance, if we wasn't competitive or able to win.
All things being equal and fair, I think every other driver knows, Meeke is hard to beat.
So for this, he more than deserves a car cabling of competing for WRC title. I think that's all he is asking

[AnttiL]

He has more desire and heart than any other WRC driver.
How do you measure this? I think all current works drivers are quite equally motivated, perhaps save for Sordo who has said he will never be a world champion.

[Allez Andruet]

Nothing wrong about the way he's speaking, he's a competitive driver who wants to win so wants the best and is honest. The bosses agree with him that improvements need to be made and have said it on numerous occasions. There's no point sugar coating anything when every man and his dog can see the problems and everyone in the team will be pushing for better.

Last year (particularly at the start) Ogier was moaning a lot about set up issues and changes he wanted made to the car. This is just what drivers do, even when they have a good car under them like Seb did. They're always wanting more performance from certain areas and for development to increase.


Absolutely, there's nothing wrong with that. Quite opposite actually. What I meant was that it's rare to see someone (say "regular WRC driver") talk in a such candid way about his own team. In this era of highly-monitored PR, it's nice that we have guys like Meeke, but I don't think these kind of statements in public are necessarily good for Kris himself.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Meeke isnt stupid or some loose cannon... even he wouldnt speak like this if he had a long-term future. I think he's just had enough and cant be bothered playing the PR game any more.

[Watson]

Meeke isnt stupid or some loose cannon... even he wouldnt speak like this if he had a long-term future. I think he's just had enough and cant be bothered playing the PR game any more.

The look on this face on one of the regroup interviews on all live on either friday or saturday said it all. The guy is a broken man. He doesn't believe in the team anymore. Maybe it is a bit premature, the PSA boss sounds like he has his back. Or Kris knows more... who knows.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

What are Citroen doing with just (mostly) two cars this year... what can they do against the other teams with this philosophy. Weird unless its a money issue.

[Rally Power]

What are Citroen doing with just (mostly) two cars this year... what can they do against the other teams with this philosophy. Weird unless its a money issue.

Was it ‘weird’ to see MSport running a low budget entry after Ford pulling out in 2012? Would you prefer Mr. Wilson to have quitted WRC back then?

Despite budget restrictions, Citroen guys also didn’t quit. They’re bravely trying to recover from their worst season in many years; as rally fans we should praise their effort and hope they’ll succeed.

[AL14]

Was it ‘weird’ to see MSport running a low budget entry after Ford pulling out in 2012? Would you prefer Mr. Wilson to have quitted WRC back then?

Despite budget restrictions, Citroen guys also didn’t quit. They’re bravely trying to recover from their worst season in many years; as rally fans we should praise their effort and hope they’ll succeed.

M-Sport was a private team and a much different situation. Anyway I think he is talking about who decided to use such a limited budget for a factory team. Everybody is happy they are there but it's ridiculous they're trying to save money everywhere while other are making proper investments for a WRC manufacturer.

[ESTR]

M-Sport was a private team and a much different situation. Anyway I think he is talking about who decided to use such a limited budget for a factory team. Everybody is happy they are there but it's ridiculous they're trying to save money everywhere while other are making proper investments for a WRC manufacturer.

Like I understand from that article from some boss from Citroen (I don't know her name & it doesn't matter) is that they don't need big budget to get recognition. That include Ogier or Mikkelsen. And a permanent third car. Their C3 is selling good despite their bad season and last place and now the slowest car currently. They are following last year's private achievement with low budget (for me quite stupid answer). They need to first build strong competitive car (driveable), then compare to others.

[er88]

M-Sport was a private team and a much different situation. Anyway I think he is talking about who decided to use such a limited budget for a factory team. Everybody is happy they are there but it's ridiculous they're trying to save money everywhere while other are making proper investments for a WRC manufacturer.Fact is a lot of the budget is made up of Sheikh Khalid's money too, so the actual money Citroen is putting in is low compared to the other teams.

They've tried to do it on the cheap, hence the reason they took risks in engineering and designing the car to try and save money and cut corners.

However with Meeke being able to win rallies last season and help create good enough publicity, it's clear from what Linda Jackson has been saying that they feel they get enough out of the WRC. Especially for the financial commitment they make.

And in their eyes this year, why run 3 cars? Even if they bring the budget to run 3 cars in every event, they still wouldn't win the manufactures title. I mean Ostberg, Tidemand, Lefebrve or whoever else they could sign as 3rd driver, wouldn't elevate them to potential champions. Ostberg will only contest more rallies in a 3 car if he brings budget to pay for it. So just run two cars on most rounds, and hopefully they push some of the left over budget into extra testing and development which is what they need for that car (as has been shown yet again in Monte...)

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Rally Power]

M-Sport was a private team and a much different situation. Anyway I think he is talking about who decided to use such a limited budget for a factory team. Everybody is happy they are there but it's ridiculous they're trying to save money everywhere while other are making proper investments for a WRC manufacturer.

Obviously the situation is far from ideal, but it seems too harsh call it ridiculous, especially at this point of the season. Again: if their choice was between continuing in the series with a smaller budget or to pull out, I’m glad they’ve choose the first.


They've tried to do it on the cheap, hence the reason they took risks in engineering and designing the car to try and save money and cut corners.
I don't believe the tech issues were result of having more or less money than the others (wealthy manus making crap cars is not rare in motorsport) and what has been talked is this year unexpected budget cut (possibly linked to PSA overall situation after Opel buy).

[T16]

[QUOTE=er88;1171150]Fact is a lot of the budget is made up of Sheikh Khalid's money too, so the actual money Citroen is putting in is low compared to the other teams.

They've tried to do it on the cheap, hence the reason they took risks in engineering and designing the car to try and save money and cut corners.

Are you sure that they took risks in design and engineering because they tried to do it on the cheap? or did they just build a crap car? Without sounding funny, I'm guessing you haven't got car-budget development comparisons for the different teams?

[ESTR]

[QUOTE=er88;1171150]Fact is a lot of the budget is made up of Sheikh Khalid's money too, so the actual money Citroen is putting in is low compared to the other teams.

They've tried to do it on the cheap, hence the reason they took risks in engineering and designing the car to try and save money and cut corners.

Are you sure that they took risks in design and engineering because they tried to do it on the cheap? or did they just build a crap car? Without sounding funny, I'm guessing you haven't got car-budget development comparisons for the different teams?

Hyundai I believe have greatest budget and probably spend way more for development than it's rivals last year. But we all know where this goes.

[Mirek]

Citrën openly admits that this year they are the team with the lowest budget.

[mknight]

[QUOTE=T16;1171155]

Hyundai I believe have greatest budget and probably spend way more for development than it's rivals last year. But we all know where this goes.

Judging by test kms Citroen used most money for 2017 car development before start of the season. (Ignoring VW). Hyundai was next. (There is a table showing "official" test km before 2017 start)

During first half of 2017 Hyundai and Toyota looked similarly committed, but from mid-2017 it seems like Toyota is the biggest spender.

(This is just my speculation based on visible number of testing days)

[ESTR]

[QUOTE=ESTR;1171164]

Judging by test kms Citroen used most money for 2017 car development before start of the season. (Ignoring VW). Hyundai was next. (There is a table showing "official" test km before 2017 start)

During first half of 2017 Hyundai and Toyota looked similarly committed, but from mid-2017 it seems like Toyota is the biggest spender.

(This is just my speculation based on visible number of testing days)

Compare to Hyundai they include 3rd car from portugal. Then send only two cars to Australia later on. And Hyundai is not somehow commited. Oh yeas they have 4 drivers under contract (Mikkelsen probably isn't cheapest).

[mknight]

Yes that's some good points. Toyota focused the budget more on development at the second half of last year while Hyundai got Mikkelsen and 4 cars in GB to try to get title(s).

Still so far this year it does not seem like there is a big budget difference between them (and if then not in favor of Hyundai). Impossible to know for sure of course.

Anyway it also matters a lot how you use the money. As mentioned it looked like Citroen had ample funds during C3 development. But they choose not use the money on experienced (development) drivers, which in hindsight might have been clever.

[Franky]

Anyway it also matters a lot how you use the money. As mentioned it looked like Citroen had ample funds during C3 development. But they choose not use the money on experienced (development) drivers, which in hindsight might have been clever.

As I've understood, then when it comes to French teams, the engineers are the kings and the drivers can f...

[Eli]

So when is the next time Citroen will be allowed to make changes on their cars?

[OldF]

So when is the next time Citroen will be allowed to make changes on their cars?

2019. The same homologation must be used for three years (2017 – 2019). During the three year period they can only use jokers and probably variant options (VO) for some parts. Current rules are valid until the end of 2022.

Only in Finnish:
https://www.hs.fi/urheilu/art-2000005536387.html?share=461fc116c24dc2a5c3ef3ede4 4802329

[ESTR]

And Meeke probably don't have motivation if he already knows where he will be next year(s).

[Eli]

2019. The same homologation must be used for three years (2017 – 2019). During the three year period they can only use jokers and probably variant options (VO) for some parts. Current rules are valid until the end of 2022.

Only in Finnish:
https://www.hs.fi/urheilu/art-2000005536387.html?share=461fc116c24dc2a5c3ef3ede4 4802329

I was talking about the Jokers.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Money for car design and development isnt everything, as M-Sport proved last year (although paying for the best driver helps).

But Citroen going into the 2018 season with a two-car team against everyone else with three and expecting to compete is just madness.

[ESTR]

Money for car design and development isnt everything, as M-Sport proved last year (although paying for the best driver helps).

But Citroen going into the 2018 season with a two-car team against everyone else with three and expecting to compete is just madness.

Maybe they want to be last on standings and that they are there just for show and drama...

[OldF]

I was talking about the Jokers.

Feel free to do that. (just kidding ;))

They have a limited amount of jokers per year / homologation period. Looking at the list of homologations for Hyundai, it’s possible to make a new joker homologation every month if they want to spend all the jokers right away. Citroen’s Patrice Davesne said in an interview (RallySport Magazine October 2016, page 44-45 https://issuu.com/hi-techmedia/docs/rallysport_magazine_october_2016) that regarding the engine they have 3 jokers per year.

“We can make changes, but some parts of the engine are frozen by regulations for three years. For example bore is not allowed to change, the distance between cylinder and the distance between camshaft can’t change. But we have three jokers per year and, for example, we can change in the same year the pistons, connecting rods and oil sump. Each year there are three jokers and we can use as we want.”

Davesne said three jokers but Hyundai have made four jokers for the engine?

https://www.fia.com/file/65105/download/9293?token=P01P9A00

HYUNDAI (page 33):



01.01.2017 400/01 WRC
VARIANTE KIT WRC 2017


01.01.2017 401/01 VO
VITRAGE / WINDOWS


01.01.2017 402/02
VO MOTEUR / ENGINE



EQUIPEMENT ELECTRIQUE / ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT



TRANSMISSION / POWER TRAIN



SUSPENSION / SUSPENSION



TRAIN ROULANT / RUNNING GEAR



CARROSSERIE / BODYWORK


01.01.2017 403/01 VF
MOTEUR / ENGINE


01.02.2017 404/01 ER
MOTEUR / ENGINE


01.02.2017 405/03 VO
CARROSSERIE / BODYWORK


01.03.2017 406/04 VO
SUSPENSION / SUSPENSION



TRAIN ROULANT / RUNNING GEAR



CARROSSERIE / BODYWORK


01.04.2017 407/02 ER
MOTEUR / ENGINE



TRANSMISSION / POWER TRAIN


01.04.2017 408/03 ER
SUSPENSION / SUSPENSION


01.04.2017 409/04 ER
SUSPENSION / SUSPENSION



CARROSSERIE / BODYWORK


01.06.2017 410/05 VO
CARROSSERIE / BODYWORK


01.07.2017 411/01 ERJ
MOTEUR / ENGINE


01.03.2017 412/06 VO
MOTEUR / ENGINE



SUSPENSION / SUSPENSION



TRAIN ROULANT / RUNNING GEAR



CARROSSERIE / BODYWORK


01.08.2017 413/02 ERJ
MOTEUR / ENGINE


01.09.2017 414/05 ER
MOTEUR / ENGINE


01.09.2017 415/03 ERJ
MOTEUR / ENGINE


01.10.2017 416/06 ER
MOTEUR / ENGINE


01.10.2017 417/07 ER
MOTEUR / ENGINE


01.10.2017 418/07 VO
RANSMISSION / POWER TRAIN



SUSPENSION / SUSPENSION



TRAIN ROULANT / RUNNING GEAR



CARROSSERIE / BODYWORK


01.10.2017 419/04 ERJ
MOTEUR / ENGINE



CARROSSERIE / BODYWORK


01.12.2017 420/08 ER
MOTEUR / ENGINE

[Eli]

Thankx for the extended info :)

[Sulland]

Mads left for France to meet the Citroen team today, and the plan is to get first test tomorrow, Mads told a Norwegian newspaper during Rally Finnskog yesterday.

Not sure where he will test tomorrow, but probably at a Citroen Test venue.

He need to find some snow and ice asap! How much is he allowed to test before sweden? Are there limitations?
If this becomes more than a one off, he needs to get a C3 R5 to get familiar with size and form, and get Citroen km.

[Watson]

Mads left for France to meet the Citroen team today, and the plan is to get first test tomorrow, Mads told a Norwegian newspaper during Rally Finnskog yesterday.

Not sure where he will test tomorrow, but probably at a Citroen Test venue.

He need to find some snow and ice asap! How much is he allowed to test before sweden? Are there limitations?
If this becomes more than a one off, he needs to get a C3 R5 to get familiar with size and form, and get Citroen km.

Well, outside of a certain circle of distance (I forget how far) to the team's main base there is a limitation of test days (which I forget the number of as well). All teams except Toyota have to leave that circle to get realistic test conditions for Sweden. Given that Sweden is such a specific rally and that Mads will play a far smaller roll in Citroen's makeup I fear he'll not get an awfull lot and therefore probably not ideal amount of testing. At least he'll be able to risk a bit more since he doesn't have to finance each piece of the car he breaks.

[Coach 2]

Mads left for France to meet the Citroen team today, and the plan is to get first test tomorrow, Mads told a Norwegian newspaper during Rally Finnskog yesterday.

Not sure where he will test tomorrow, but probably at a Citroen Test venue.

He need to find some snow and ice asap! How much is he allowed to test before sweden? Are there limitations?
If this becomes more than a one off, he needs to get a C3 R5 to get familiar with size and form, and get Citroen km.

Think he will test on gravel in France, just to get used to the car.
There will be a test in Sweden on Saturday, I think.

[bluuford]

Well, outside of a certain circle of distance (I forget how far) to the team's main base there is a limitation of test days (which I forget the number of as well).

50 km

[AnttiL]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVV4hBXWsAAKjDF.jpg:large

Seems that Mads is having Adapta and OneBet backing for his Citroen deal

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Snow at Citroen Racing HQ is convenient. Any test roads nearby ?

[AnttiL]

Snow at Citroen Racing HQ is convenient. Any test roads nearby ?

Probably the road won't have an icy surface underneath the snow, so it will be very different to Rally Sweden

[skarderud]

But it will be slippery, and thats the Citröen worst surface and good for Mads to understand what they have to do before sweden test.

Sent fra min XP7700 via Tapatalk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Mads twitter:
"Seems like Rally Sweden preparations are everywhere! It will be snowy conditions at Citroen Racing shakedown today."

"I will have 1 full day of proper testing with the team before Sweden this weekend'

[PLuto]

Mads twitter:
"Seems like Rally Sweden preparations are everywhere! It will be snowy conditions at Citroen Racing shakedown today."

"I will have 1 full day of proper testing with the team before Sweden this weekend'

Will be one day of testing enough for Mads to learn the car to be fast on rally? :)

[er88]

Will be one day of testing enough for Mads to learn the car to be fast on rally? :)Meeke and Breen only getting 1 and a half days is probably not enough for them either, judging by the difficulties they had last year. Wouldn't be surprised if we didn't have a Citroen in the top 6/7 here.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[er88]

Besse told*Motorsport News: “We improved the gravel car, so we should have a car that’s better on snow. But [this week] we need to find the good set-up for this car which is completely different from last year’s car on snow.”

Asked if he was confident four days testing would be enough to dial the C3 WRC in, Besse replied: “I’m sure it will not be enough, but it’s always a compromise if you put every thought on one rally it’s not a good thing.

“We have to be reasonable, it’s one rally on this surface, so we give four days and then we work more on gravel. But we hope we will be able to do our best in these four days, we need to be efficient and do a better job than last year.”

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/citroen-set-for-vital-pre-sweden-wrc-test/

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[PLuto]

Little Big Racing by Citroën - Rally Sweden: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxP9as9yqtA

[Rally Power]

Wasn’t able to follow Sweden properly, but Breen looked strong all event long and Ostberg also performed decently; quite an improvement from last year rally. It feels Citroen tech staff is managing to improve the car and probably we cannot longer say the C3 is a crap. With the jokers they’re expecting to use since Mexico (or Argentina?) things are starting to look promising in the French squad; good news for them and great for the WRC!

[A FONDO]

Big cheeks Matton left the team and the car is immediately up to speed :D

[doubled1978]

I got the impression the drivers were almost as surprised as us that the car performed as it did in Sweden. Breen in particular kept referencing that it's 'sticking', which I took to mean the rear of the car.

[Sulland]

Rumors say that Breen and Østberg started Sweden using the completely changed set-up that came after Mads struggled during his testday. He tweeked on almost everything, and ended up with a very different set-up than where he started.

Meeke tried it, but felt it did not suite his liking, so he went back to his way of setting up the car.

Shows that many drivers need to test a car, for the constructing team gets many inputs, to make a car that is adjustable for many styles of fast driving.

Citroen has tradition of using their number 1 driver as head tester. That was ok with the two Sebs. Not sure about car behaviour preferences on loose and hard surfaces of the 3, but I guess someone here has insight to share?

[T16]

Rumors say that Breen and Østberg started Sweden using the completely changed set-up that came after Mads struggled during his testday. He tweeked on almost everything, and ended up with a very different set-up than where he started.

Meeke tried it, but felt it did not suite his liking, so he went back to his way of setting up the car.

Shows that many drivers need to test a car, for the constructing team gets many inputs, to make a car that is adjustable for many styles of fast driving.

Citroen has tradition of using their number 1 driver as head tester. That was ok with the two Sebs. Not sure about car behaviour preferences on loose and hard surfaces of the 3, but I guess someone here has insight to share?

Could be that a totally different take on the set-up has made such a positive difference, but Meeke has always been held in very high regard as far as car set-up and development goes.
That's not to say he always gets it right though.
I wonder if it's possible that new components on the car have allowed the operating window to be shifted, thus allowing for a set-up that was not possible before? (diff components/ software / suspension geometry parameters)...

[mknight]

but Meeke has always been held in very high regard as far as car set-up and development goes.


By whom? Which car did he help develop?

Last year he used DS3 on at least 3 pre-event tests for "comparison". Doesn't look like someone who is sure about setting up a car.

[T16]

By whom? Which car did he help develop?

Last year he used DS3 on at least 3 pre-event tests for "comparison". Doesn't look like someone who is sure about setting up a car.

Sorry if I offended you somehow pal... I can't remember specifically, but he used to do a lot of development work for when Loeb was driving for the team and they actually gave him a special mention for his work in the initial development for ..... (I think it was the C4?).. I'm sure someone will remember better than I do.

Maybe the fault is (or was) within the engineering / technical side of the team and not solely at his door. Did you consider that, or are you certain he is to blame?

[mknight]

I just wonder how you got the idea. Sordo developed C4 afaik.

[T16]

I just wonder how you got the idea. Sordo developed C4 afaik.

I remember him being publicly praised by whoever ran Citroen sport at the time (not so sure it was Matton, but can't remember who it was exactly)... they accredited him with a lot of the cars performance.

[AnttiK7]

Every time I was watching Mads past weekend, I was once again amazed how rough and aggressive his driving style is in comparison to most other drivers. It's the same style he was driving the Fords past couple of seasons. All arms and elbows without much finesse, looking out of the side window in every second corner. Exciting to watch, but you can just feel the last seconds escaping him at the same time. Not sure if that style is the best for C3 or any other modern rally car for that matter, but I think especially the "racing car" Citroen would probably demand a completely different driving approach. I think both Meeke and Breen have a much more refined and suitable driving style for the car. Though funny enough, when you throw the car around like Mads (if you still maintain a good concentration and accuracy in driving otherwise), it is actually often a bit safer style to drive as you get a bit more time to react to surprise moments than if you try to do maximum attack completely racing style. Maybe Östberg's driving style is one reason for his great consistency record. Of the drivers in the recent past Mikko Hirvonen had a bit similar old school style and he also had a great finishing record. But especially towards the end of his career he also started to struggle a lot in terms of pace.

In contrast, whilst Meeke has a great driving style for C3, his problems are in consistency. With Meeke's style the concentration has to be even greater as the margin for error becomes smaller. And like I said elsewhere, I think his pacenotes are probably the underlying issue for most of his problems. I remember Petter Solberg had this exact same problem. He had a great modern driving style, even more nose-first than Loeb, but to execute it successfully he put more and more things and accuracy into his pacenotes, in the end way too much in my opinion. And then in the end everything is just way too much on the knife edge all the time. Your brain can't keep up consistently anymore for the whole 300-400 stage kilometres.

If Colin McRae and Richard Burns were able to drive 2018 WRC cars, using the same driving style than they had in their days, I think Burns would do great and McRae would struggle similarly like Mads does. Or if Walter Röhrl was born 40 years later I think he would completely dominate the modern WRC. You just have to be so smooth and clean these days and also find the right balance and ingredients which allow you to execute that style consistently.

[TWRC]

By whom? Which car did he help develop?

Last year he used DS3 on at least 3 pre-event tests for "comparison". Doesn't look like someone who is sure about setting up a car.
He helped in the DS3 WRC development, and was also main development driver for the 208 T16/DS3 R5. Now, I don't want to lay the blame at anyone's door, and maybe this comparison is completely irrelevant, but those R5 cars have suffered from the same problems as the C3 last year: good cars on tarmac, but on gravel, the rear has less than satisfactory grip/behaviour, and had many problems with bad bump stop settings/management (which is a design flaw, but why did they design it like that?). So I'm not saying Meeke is to blame (entirely), as they have used far less drivers for the R5s and the C3 tests than they used to for any of their new cars before (for the DS3, they used Loeb, Sordo, Bouffier, Sarrazin, Meeke, Ogier, etc.), which could clearly affect the development, but the cars he was the main development driver for have suffered from similar problems, which is quite interesting I think.

[steve.mandzij]

Every time I was watching Mads past weekend, I was once again amazed how rough and aggressive his driving style is in comparison to most other drivers. It's the same style he was driving the Fords past couple of seasons. All arms and elbows without much finesse, looking out of the side window in every second corner. Exciting to watch, but you can just feel the last seconds escaping him at the same time. Not sure if that style is the best for C3 or any other modern rally car for that matter, but I think especially the "racing car" Citroen would probably demand a completely different driving approach. I think both Meeke and Breen have a much more refined and suitable driving style for the car. Though funny enough, when you throw the car around like Mads (if you still maintain a good concentration and accuracy in driving otherwise), it is actually often a bit safer style to drive as you get a bit more time to react to surprise moments than if you try to do maximum attack completely racing style. Maybe Östberg's driving style is one reason for his great consistency record. Of the drivers in the recent past Mikko Hirvonen had a bit similar old school style and he also had a great finishing record. But especially towards the end of his career he also started to struggle a lot in terms of pace.

In contrast, whilst Meeke has a great driving style for C3, his problems are in consistency. With Meeke's style the concentration has to be even greater as the margin for error becomes smaller. And like I said elsewhere, I think his pacenotes are probably the underlying issue for most of his problems. I remember Petter Solberg had this exact same problem. He had a great modern driving style, even more nose-first than Loeb, but to execute it successfully he put more and more things and accuracy into his pacenotes, in the end way too much in my opinion. And then in the end everything is just way too much on the knife edge all the time. Your brain can't keep up consistently anymore for the whole 300-400 stage kilometres.

If Colin McRae and Richard Burns were able to drive 2018 WRC cars, using the same driving style than they had in their days, I think Burns would do great and McRae would struggle similarly like Mads does. Or if Walter Röhrl was born 40 years later I think he would completely dominate the modern WRC. You just have to be so smooth and clean these days and also find the right balance and ingredients which allow you to execute that style consistently.Interesting point about the pacenotes. I strongly believe that Meeke's Mexico off last year was 100% down to his extremely detailed pacenotes. In the onboard Paul managed to get all the pacenote out in a fraction of a second, but I feel it must have been humanly impossible for Meeke to process all the data he was given right before the corner and slow down.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[racerx1979]

Interesting point about the pacenotes. I strongly believe that Meeke's Mexico off last year was 100% down to his extremely detailed pacenotes. In the onboard Paul managed to get all the pacenote out in a fraction of a second, but I feel it must have been humanly impossible for Meeke to process all the data he was given right before the corner and slow down.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

As a co-driver I completely thought it was because of the pacenotes.. Nagles call was way too late. I assumed it was completely Nagles fault as I did not realize Meeke likes descriptive pace notes.

That being said, you can only say so much when you have multiple calls in a short run. I think it would make sense to dumb things down or speak in codes to prevent from info overload. Similar to when Nagle just called Latvala on "Latvalas Corner" in Sweden. No need to say Latvalas corner. Even better just say JML. That's what I did when co-driving for a quick French driver in the states. He wanted descriptive notes and I got sick and tired of saying things in longform so we decided to shorten things or use acronyms when it made sense.

[steve.mandzij]

As a co-driver I completely thought it was because of the pacenotes.. Nagles call was way too late. I assumed it was completely Nagles fault as I did not realize Meeke likes descriptive pace notes.

That being said, you can only say so much when you have multiple calls in a short run. I think it would make sense to dumb things down or speak in codes to prevent from info overload. Similar to when Nagle just called Latvala on "Latvalas Corner" in Sweden. No need to say Latvalas corner. Even better just say JML. That's what I did when co-driving for a quick French driver in the states. He wanted descriptive notes and I got sick and tired of saying things in longform so we decided to shorten things or use acronyms when it made sense.Nice insight. I just checked the video and in Mexico Nagle called out "be neat this time" right after the corner and moving over to the next one. He timed the note well IMO but rushed it to get that added message through, and Kris probably didn't have enough time to process it.

As for the Latvala corner, what did that pacenote really mean? Sideways?

Also, unrelated, how does one go about becoming a co-driver?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[racerx1979]

I don't know for a fact, but I'm assuming it's where Latvala had an "off". We always named corners where someone had an off or did something amazing like "colins crest" etc.


The Co-driver gig for me came as luck honestly. I owned a JDM EVO 3 Mitsu and met a performance shop owner during a rally who was service crew for a few of his clients. At that time rallying was not big in the states. I only introduced myself because I wanted to buy some parts for my car. I ended up becoming friends with the shop owner after giving them some business. A few months later a driver (client of theirs) needed someone to co-drive as his normal co-driver was not available. I was asked if interested because I was literally one of a handful of clients they had who was interested in rallying. I laughed and said "yes!, but i don't know a thing about co-driving". A few weeks later I was in a rally car reading a route book and making a ton mistakes, but having the time of my life. This was pre pacenote era in the US. The route book was pre written with only major calls such as cautions, hairpins etc. Nowhere near as good as pacenotes (stagenotes in the US). After that first co-drive I met a ton of drivers and wanted to get involved seriously so I signed up for the local forums and went to all the club rallies trying to get a ride in as many cars as possible. After many stints with different drivers I finally found a solid drive for a few seasons.

So one way to do it is to go find a rally service shop and tell them you would be interested in co-driving for their drivers if the occasion presents itself. You can also volunteer at club rallies and go talk to some drivers and co-drivers. When I started we had no schools for co-driving in the states. The only way to learn was to find someone with a rally car and enter a rally. Now they have many schools so I think you almost have to have some schooling before doing your first club rally. Sign up for a forum like specialstage.com in the US and offer to help pay a newbie driver some money or help get their car ready to get the experience. Have a lot of fun and stay safe.. beware of any drivers with a bad reputation and stay clear (trust me it's no fun).

It was so addictive for me that I actually helped pay for some rallies... nothing major, but I paid for hotels for me and the driver or gas etc in my early years. I always tried to help with any preparation since I actually enjoy working on rally cars. In the end I never paid, but I was also with better drivers by that point who had their own funding or small sponsors.

[Rally Power]

He helped in the DS3 WRC development, and was also main development driver for the 208 T16/DS3 R5. Now, I don't want to lay the blame at anyone's door, and maybe this comparison is completely irrelevant, but those R5 cars have suffered from the same problems as the C3 last year: good cars on tarmac, but on gravel, the rear has less than satisfactory grip/behaviour, and had many problems with bad bump stop settings/management (which is a design flaw, but why did they design it like that?). So I'm not saying Meeke is to blame (entirely), as they have used far less drivers for the R5s and the C3 tests than they used to for any of their new cars before (for the DS3, they used Loeb, Sordo, Bouffier, Sarrazin, Meeke, Ogier, etc.), which could clearly affect the development, but the cars he was the main development driver for have suffered from similar problems, which is quite interesting I think.

Indeed. Btw, Meeke was also involved on the Mini WRC development; another car which was only competitive on tarmac.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So Citroen made a 'last-minute' decision to give Ostberg a third C3 in Sweden.

Why cant they do what would effectively be the same for Breen in Mexico ?

Is it cost or what that makes Mexico different ?

[Simmi]

So Citroen made a 'last-minute' decision to give Ostberg a third C3 in Sweden.

Why cant they do what would effectively be the same for Breen in Mexico ?

Is it cost or what that makes Mexico different ?

I don't know the exact dates, but entry and freight deadlines probably make it more difficult. Also Ostberg $$$ surely opens doors.

[Nelly]

So Citroen made a 'last-minute' decision to give Ostberg a third C3 in Sweden.

Why cant they do what would effectively be the same for Breen in Mexico ?

Is it cost or what that makes Mexico different ?Mads is paying for his drive. Entries closed for Mexico before Sweden


Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[seb_sh]

The Mexico entry deadline has passed, plus I imagine it's harder to add a car there considering the distance. For Corsica it's a different matter, they might even be able to get some budget for this especially since it's Citroen's home round.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Mads is paying for his drive. Entries closed for Mexico before Sweden


Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Why is Ostberg only saying he's 'hoping' for more Citroen drives if he's paying ?

I guess Citroen think he wont score more points for them anywhere but Sweden...

[Simmi]

Why is Ostberg only saying he's 'hoping' for more Citroen drives if he's paying ?

I guess Citroen think he wont score more points for them anywhere but Sweden...

Coming into a works team he can't be expected to incur the entire cost of the entry. Crew, logistics, service set ups, accommodation, testing etc. I doubt it's anywhere near as simple as somewhere like M-Sport. And we know how tight PSA wallets are these days. With it being a very last-minute deal they clearly didn't thrash anything out beyond Sweden.

[AnttiL]

Why is Ostberg only saying he's 'hoping' for more Citroen drives if he's paying ?


Mads is not paying 100%. Otherwise he would be in a complete OneBet livery.

[ESTR]

Mads is not paying 100%. Otherwise he would be in a complete OneBet livery.

Maybe they are playing like M-Sport. 3rd car reserved for specialists and Qassimi. It's wrong that Breen must suffer, when they could easily put Loeb in third car.

[AnttiL]

Maybe they are playing like M-Sport. 3rd car reserved for specialists and Qassimi. It's wrong that Breen must suffer, when they could easily put Loeb in third car.

It was announced from the beginning of the season that it would be only two cars + Al-Qassimi. And now that Mads paid for Sweden, they set a third car for him. Other than that, it's a tight budget causing Breen to have a reduced program.

If we look at last year, Citroen was running with only two competitive entries for half of the season

Monte Carlo: Meeke, Lefebvre (+ Breen in DS3)
Sweden: Meeke, Breen (+ Lefebvre in DS3)
Mexico: Meeke, Lefebvre
Argentina: Meeke, Breen
Finland: Meeke, Breen + Al-Qassimi
Spain: Meeke, Lefebvre + Al-Qassimi
Wales: Meeke, Breen + Al-Qassimi

and 3 cars for other events, with Al-Qassimi also in Portugal as a fourth car.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Maybe people are getting carried away by Breen's Sweden result.

The decision on Loeb in Mexico had been decided well before and looked understandable considering his greater experience there...

Also the fact Citroen clearly have a limited budget is the big problem.

[racerx1979]

Fast Eddie WRC has a point. Breen had a great drive, but we all know how much road position mattered in Sweden. Breen had an excellent drive no doubt, but lets see how he does on a Gravel event.

Lets hope the Citroen is getting better. Rumor has it the car has improved quite well on gravel after early testing in Mexico with Meeke. Rear of the car is a lot more settled according to inside sources.

[Coach 2]

Fast Eddie WRC has a point. Breen had a great drive, but we all know how much road position mattered in Sweden. Breen had an excellent drive no doubt, but lets see how he does on a Gravel event.

Lets hope the Citroen is getting better. Rumor has it the car has improved quite well on gravel after early testing in Mexico with Meeke. Rear of the car is a lot more settled according to inside sources.

Others also had good road position, but it was Breen who came second, and his drive was realy impressive.

[er88]

Others also had good road position, but it was Breen who came second, and his drive was realy impressive.Absolutely. He demolished Paddon, and Mikkelsen (who's admitted he's aiming for the title) couldn't cope with him on what was his home rally with an equally good start position. Ofcourse Breen still has a lot of improving to do to be up with the top guys on pure pace in more equal conditions, but this was a such a good step for him and Citroen have dropped a clanger not having him in the car for Mexico (and possibly even Corsica). The new team boss knows as much himself, but the decision was made before he was in position sadly.

[steve.mandzij]

Absolutely. He demolished Paddon, and Mikkelsen (who's admitted he's aiming for the title) couldn't cope with him on what was his home rally with an equally good start position. Ofcourse Breen still has a lot of improving to do to be up with the top guys on pure pace in more equal conditions, but this was a such a good step for him and Citroen have dropped a clanger not having him in the car for Mexico (and possibly even Corsica). The new team boss knows as much himself, but the decision was made before he was in position sadly.I've said it before and will say it again: Mikkelsen Is overrated.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[GigiGalliNo1]

During Monte Carlo, each team had an addition Press Car for their Press Day... See Makinen driving around in the Yaris WRC with Juha K.

In addition Citroen Racing did in fact bring 3 C3 WRCars to Monte... on of them used for guest drives with Meeke (see RedBull coverage)... I really should have gotten the License plate to see what Chasis number it was on the trusty eWRC website but I didn't...

So The teams do have additional cars lying around.. Hyundai had four in MC.

So I don't see why or how hard it could be to bring an additional C3 WRC to a home round in Corse for Breen... extra mechanics can come from Versailles... freight is easy... but for Mexico, they fly all the cars.

[AnttiL]

Yeah, fly in that third C3 for Craig and see how long he can go up that rally without mechanics or a service park slot.

[GigiGalliNo1]

What I mean is if they'll fly in a C3 WRC... they can fly in the additional mechanics... they can easily fit a third WRC in the tent as it'll be a long haul package.

[Tarmop]

Rims? Spare parts? Recce car? Tools for that one extra car? Ofc. they could, but the point is, they decided not to spend more money.

[Rally Power]

What I mean is if they'll fly in a C3 WRC... they can fly in the additional mechanics... they can easily fit a third WRC in the tent as it'll be a long haul package.

It’s true that Loeb getting Breen’s seat was announced a long time ago and for Breen skipping a couple of events will be always better than sharing the second car with Lefebvre all season long (like it was initially told). We also know that Citroen strict budget unable them to have 3 cars, but I wonder if it wasn’t possible to have Loeb’s special appearances covered by outside partners; the guy is a sponsor magnet, even if the Arabs opposed to a Red Bull deal it’s not hard to imagine French companies making a line to pay for this 3 outings (starting with Total or Michelin), which would certainly also allowed a better promotion of this operation.

Anyway, more than having Loeb’s back, the main thing is to see the C3 fixed and able to fight for the win in any rally, like Breen showed in Sweden.

[N.O.T]

During Monte Carlo, each team had an addition Press Car for their Press Day... See Makinen driving around in the Yaris WRC with Juha K.

In addition Citroen Racing did in fact bring 3 C3 WRCars to Monte... on of them used for guest drives with Meeke (see RedBull coverage)... I really should have gotten the License plate to see what Chasis number it was on the trusty eWRC website but I didn't...

So The teams do have additional cars lying around.. Hyundai had four in MC.

So I don't see why or how hard it could be to bring an additional C3 WRC to a home round in Corse for Breen... extra mechanics can come from Versailles... freight is easy... but for Mexico, they fly all the cars.

and i guess running the car in a full wrc event is equally expensive as just fly it over and do 50kms in guest rides...

are you trying to be this way ? or it comes naturally ?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Others also had good road position, but it was Breen who came second, and his drive was realy impressive.

He did... and as a long-standing Breen fan I am more than aware of his ability.

But he also has a lot more experience of Sweden than Mexico.

The bottom line preventing his drive is Citroen's lack of budget.

[T16]

He did... and as a long-standing Breen fan I am more than aware of his ability.

But he also has a lot more experience of Sweden than Mexico.

The bottom line preventing his drive is Citroen's lack of budget.

Why did you say people are maybe getting carried away with his Sweden result then?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Why did you say people are maybe getting carried away with his Sweden result then?

Because they are assuming he could do a similar drive in Mexico, but he has no experience there. It is a pity, but not the great disaster some are suggesting.

[pokey2014]

Will citroen drop meeke for next season?

He seems really demoralised

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[wrc2017]

the changes that meeke and loeb are testing, are a result of 1 year development, when the penny dropped early last year that there was a inherent flaw with the C3. everything they have done since, is a piecemeal solution. while they are currently on a mexico setup test, its will be Argentina before any of the developments are ready.

[T16]

Will citroen drop meeke for next season?

He seems really demoralised

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Will Citroen be present next season?

They may even drop him this year (poss for one or two events) depending on the results he gets versus Breen... wouldn’t surprise me at all.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Will citroen drop meeke for next season?

He seems really demoralised

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

I doubt it. He's under contract and they dont have spare cash to pay him to sit out events. That's unless he's totally gone by mid-season like last year...

[WUff1]

Isn´t his contract lasting only ´till 2017? Don´t think he´ll get a new one then.

[AnttiL]

Meeke's contract lasts to the end of this year.

[wrc2017]

I doubt it. He's under contract and they dont have spare cash to pay him to sit out events. That's unless he's totally gone by mid-season like last year...

As Meeke said he has won 3 of the next 4 events, and leading Corsica till an oil pipe came off. If these new parts prove to be what he is asking for.. he certainly could get 2 or 3 wins.. all off a sudden your the man to beat. We all know last year, and why Meeke was sidelined.. and to be honest.. was the best thing that happened CWRT, as the penny finally dropped, and wasnt just Meeke whinging about a loose rear end.

[nafpaktos]

he will continue the same way and he will go back to uk to drive old escorts as a guest star to rallies.

[wrc2017]

he will continue the same way and he will go back to uk to drive old escorts as a guest star to rallies.
no

[nafpaktos]

no

Hope you are right and i am wrong,but he is too old to learn to stay on the road and protect the car on a stage.If you were a team manager would you keep him to your team for the next year if this year screw it again?If yes why?

[AL14]

What should Meeke do more to make you lose hopes he will perform consistently?
He has been the consistence nemesis since his first contract with Citroen and now he is 40.
He is a nice guys and spectacular driver but has always missed what modern rally requires nowadays, the right balance between speed and consistency.

[wrc2017]

What should Meeke do more to make you lose hopes he will perform consistently?
He has been the consistence nemesis since his first contract with Citroen and now he is 40.
He is a nice guys and spectacular driver but has always missed what modern rally requires nowadays, the right balance between speed and consistency.

Sure, but the decision will be made on the basis of his 2018 campaign. Just give him a chance.. in a car that works. Even if he doesn't win the championship, but finishs in top 3, there would be a strong case to keep him on.

[nafpaktos]

Even if he doesn't win the championship, but finishs in top 3

Top 3?either you are a big fan of him or very young.Ogier,Neuville,Tanak,Mikkelsen(maybe Lappi andLatvala )will be ahead of him at the end of the championship.the ranking is random.I would also say Breen but he will miss some rallies.So i really don’t see top 3.

[wrc2017]

Top 3?either you are a big fan of him or very young.Ogier,Neuville,Tanak,Mikkelsen(maybe Lappi andLatvala )will be ahead of him at the end of the championship.the ranking is random.I would also say Breen but he will miss some rallies.So i really don’t see top 3. we will see.

[seb_sh]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/february-2018/loeb-test-quote/page/5252--12-12-.html

Loeb says the suspension geometry changes give him more confidence in the car.

[wrc2017]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/february-2018/loeb-test-quote/page/5252--12-12-.html

Loeb says the suspension geometry changes give him more confidence in the car.

so.. loeb happy with meeke setup. who is going to take credit for turning this around? has meekes changes finally been heeded. it must be noted head engineer and team manager have gone, but meeke is still there... now the car finally showing signs of improvement.

[racerx1979]

The team will take credit... Let's hope they all work as a team as opposed to Team Meeke...

[wrc2017]

The team will take credit... Let's hope they all work as a team as opposed to Team Meeke...

Team effort.. with a team that is now maybe listening.

[Rally Power]

so.. loeb happy with meeke setup. who is going to take credit for turning this around?

The C3 gravel improvement was already noticed in Catalunya and Australia. Since Christophe Besse arrival, in August, the team has managed to understand how to improve the car; till then they were all, including Meeke, clueless.

[wrc2017]

The C3 gravel improvement was already noticed in Catalunya and Australia. Since Christophe Besse arrival, in August, the team has managed to understand how to improve the car; till then they were all, including Meeke, clueless.
a driver can only say what the feels. its upto the boffins to sort it

[Norm75]

The C3 gravel improvement was already noticed in Catalunya and Australia. Since Christophe Besse arrival, in August, the team has managed to understand how to improve the car; till then they were all, including Meeke, clueless.
Was it not reported that after Mikelsen had driven the car changes were made, ones that Kris had been asking for for a while.
Either way, let's just hope the changes can bring a significant improvement in results so that Citroen decides to continue next year, and let alone give Meeke another year but hopefully Breen a full season.

[er88]

The C3 gravel improvement was already noticed in Catalunya and Australia. Since Christophe Besse arrival, in August, the team has managed to understand how to improve the car; till then they were all, including Meeke, clueless.Not totally true. There are facts out in the open and it's not difficult to see why things went wrong, unless you're an ostrich.

It's been admitted by Matton on many occasions that the risks the team took in engineering and development backfired. He held his hands up. You then had quotes from the new tech chief Besse, saying that individuals within the team found it difficult to admit to their mistakes (some have now left or been sacked), until the penny finally dropped after Mikkelsen and then Loeb said the exact same things about the car as the regular drivers. Changes were only then implemented which the regular drivers had been pushing for for months prior.

After the midpoint of last season, certain Citroen staff "moved on", and the man who designed and penned the car was replaced. Meeke's position was also strengthened (despite a spate of crashes), and with the team all on the same page and working together properly, Citroen have moved forward and the development has been good. Besse has been a great appointment as technical director and the improvements are there to seen. Loeb's recent interview further emphasises that (the article on the WRC website. Not the interview just uploaded on the WRC YouTube channel, where Loeb talks about the difficulties of the car before the changes in the second half of last season).

Looking at all that, it seems Citroen ballsed up not taking the testing feedback on-board earlier, which either suggests arrogance and stubbornness (Besse's quotes suggest that could've been the case), or a lack of trust in Meeke, Breen and Lefebrve's feedback on the car. Or maybe a bit of both? However if they didn't trust the feedback from those drivers from the start, they should've let other drivers help test and develop the car in 2016. Yet we know that wasn't the case, as despite Meeke saying he wanted Loeb or another experienced driver to test the car, nobody did (until Loeb in 2017). Why not? Ask Matton.

You look at VW testing this Polo R5, they have Depping, Tiedemand, Gronholm and now Solberg all in the car. Vastly different drivers all with different experience, but you can bet all their individual feedback is being analysed and taken on-board properly, with changes and tweaks made accordingly. Citroen could've tapped into drivers like Loeb and Carlos Sainz's knowledge and experience in 2016, and it was a huge oversight not doing so. Instead of being proactive, the team were reactive to bad results which meant Loeb only tested the car in August/September of 2017 (when it should have been August 2016). If Loeb tested the car before 2017, he would've said the same things about it as he did almost a year later, and the same things as Meeke, Breen, Lefebrve and Mikkelsen all said before him.
So that's where you're wrong about Meeke and the other drivers being clueless, they all new the areas which needed improved. That's just a fact.

But the main thing is, since Besse's appointment and the realisation from within the team that things needed changed on the car, we now have a more competitive and drivable car on most terrains. Further improvements are in the offing too in Argentina, which will hopefully help increase performance further. Better late than never, and at least Citroen eventually realised their mistakes and took action with changes within the team.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Sulland]

The hard part for any manufacurer in racing is to make a vehicle that is good out of the box, easy to change to different drivingstyles, and easy to finetune to the individual liking.

For a racecar it is easier than for a rallycar, since it will face more surfaces and weather conditions. Some like them basically to be driven like a backwheel driven, and some like a frontwheel driven car, and som like them quite neutral.

To manage to get a tick in all the boxes (and then some) is not an easy piece of engineering!!
But as said elsewhere, to have the car tested by drivers with many drivingstyles, should be a given. Else you can end up with a car that qould be extremely quick in the hands of a specific style, amd the rest have to adapt to the car, and not vice versa.

Both Subaru and Citroen have made this mistake. Skoda/VW teat a lot with many, and usually wins. MSport uses the commercial Microsoft method; push an ok basecar out quickly to as many customers as possible, adjust it after many reports on the same issue, or if you are not competitive at all!

[Rally Power]

Looking at all that, it seems Citroen ballsed up not taking the testing feedback on-board earlier, which either suggests arrogance and stubbornness (Besse's quotes suggest that could've been the case), or a lack of trust in Meeke, Breen and Lefebrve's feedback on the car. Or maybe a bit of both? which needed improved.

During the 9 months they took to test the car, all drivers showed delighted and hopeful on the car success. We only start to hear complains after the first outings (MC and Sweden); that’s why I believe the all team, including the drivers, were genuinely surprised by the car issues.

There’s no doubt the tech staff has failed to deliver a proper car, but no one can say for sure it was due to a lack of trust between engineers and drivers, like Brit journos were eager to suggest in order to protect Meeke.

Despite all the fuss, the team is now managing to fix the car and give their drivers a fine chance to shine. Fingers crossed.

[doubled1978]

During the 9 months they took to test the car, all drivers showed delighted and hopeful on the car success. We only start to hear complains after the first outings (MC and Sweden); that’s why I believe the all team, including the drivers, were genuinely surprised by the car issues.

There’s no doubt the tech staff has failed to deliver a proper car, but no one can say for sure it was due to a lack of trust between engineers and drivers, like Brit journos were eager to suggest in order to protect Meeke.

Despite all the fuss, the team is now managing to fix the car and give their drivers a fine chance to shine. Fingers crossed.

I'm not sure I buy that, the drivers were hardly likely to come out and say the car was a pile of shit in public before it had ever turned a wheel in anger.
I know we are all making some assumptions along the way but it can't be coincidental that after Mikkelsen and then Loeb both said it was crap in low traction conditions things happened. And it wasn't the drivers getting replaced.....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Loeb sorry for Breen...

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/loeb-sorry-for-taking-breens-citroen-wrc-seat/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Breen speaking on Absolute Rally said he had a horrible SD in Sweden and a bad feeling with the car. But on SS1 he went into a corner seemingly too quick and just 'chucked it in and hoped for the best'... and amazingly the car stuck and he thought ok I'll keep this speed and the C3 kept sticking !

Seems like it was a pure fluke they hit on a good set-up.

[Rally Power]

And it wasn't the drivers getting replaced.....

The former tech director was moved to another PSA department and Matton was hired by the FIA. Most likely, Citroen didn’t spend a cent to get rid of them; the same certainly wouldn’t be possible if they fired Meeke before the end of his contract…

[racerx1979]

Breen speaking on Absolute Rally said he had a horrible SD in Sweden and a bad feeling with the car. But on SS1 he went into a corner seemingly too quick and just 'chucked it in and hoped for the best'... and amazingly the car stuck and he thought ok I'll keep this speed and the C3 kept sticking !

Seems like it was a pure fluke they hit on a good set-up.

Wow, I would assume all the chucking would take place in testing. Also means he was driving at the limit which is exactly what Meeke was complaining about. Gravel is not as forgiving...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Wow, I would assume all the chucking would take place in testing. Also means he was driving at the limit which is exactly what Meeke was complaining about. Gravel is not as forgiving...

Yes, Breen also said he liked Sweden as it was a 'safe rally', plus he had driven it 5 or 6 times previously.

Sounds like everything was in his favour there and so the result came. All the more reason not to get too carried away...

[AnttiL]

Also, considering the nature of Absolute Rally and Breen being friends with the guys, it could be that he just made the story a bit funnier than it was actually. To me it sounded like that in the first place.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Also, considering the nature of Absolute Rally and Breen being friends with the guys, it could be that he just made the story a bit funnier than it was actually. To me it sounded like that in the first place.

His surprise at the car working well after a bad SD sounded totally genuine to me.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Certainly Citroën could have fit in another car (expand service) but points understood re brining in mechanics, parts etc...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180305/04611f9060b70f77451e5039c3e47002.jpg

[Dug83]

I was just wondering with Citroen having seeming to have improved the handling of the C3 on gravel/loose surfaces is there a chance it has come at a cost to handling on tarmac? From all accounts it has been suspension geometry and diff changes that have help the handling so could it effect the setup?

Newton's 3rd law of physics comes to mind. Just a thought and hopefully someone with a bit more knowledge than me can give there thoughts on it.

[seb_sh]

if i remember correctly they had different suspension mount points for tarmac and gravel so it should probably not affect it.

[mknight]

I was just wondering with Citroen having seeming to have improved the handling of the C3 on gravel/loose surfaces

Actually we can't really be sure how much it improved.

Sure it was able to fight for win in Mexico... but they won there last year as well but seemed to have issues on every gravel rally after that.

Yes Breen's performance in Sweden was promising, but it's still way too early to count the problems as fixed.

[wrc2017]

Actually we can't really be sure how much it improved.

Sure it was able to fight for win in Mexico... but they won there last year as well but seemed to have issues on every gravel rally after that.

Yes Breen's performance in Sweden was promising, but it's still way too early to count the problems as fixed.

I expect they understand the problem now and can just manage it.

a complete revamp of front and rear suspension tested in Mexico pet, not homologated until argentina according to autosport.com

[Eli]

Hope for the best, nice to see Citroen not last at the champ. table. Just a few days ago they said they would fit improvements for the C3 in Corsica.

[dimviii]

if i remember correctly they had different suspension mount points for tarmac and gravel so it should probably not affect it.

yes at the front.Diffs are different at tarmac.

[Rally Power]

I expect they understand the problem now and can just manage it.

The C3 has steadily improved since the new tech director got in. The car was already on the pace in Catalunya gravel leg and Australia. With the next upgrade hopefully it’ll be definitely fixed. Citroen should now start looking on their 2019 driver’s line up; they’ll need a more reliable 1st driver to have a chance to fight for the manus title.

[racerx1979]

I have a feeling they will do well in Corsica. Loeb is also great on tarmac. Maybe he will surprise us again.

[N.O.T]

Maybe he will surprise us again.

after the showing in mexico the surprise would be to be slow....

In car other that the arab Shitroen he could very well be champion again.

[racerx1979]

And that would be a surprise...

[er88]

Lol, "Arab Shitroen". Thankfully they have belatedly improved the c3, and maybe they can keep improving further...

Anyway, before trying to find a better 1st driver, the "Arab Shitroen' team should think about getting a 3rd driver for the upcoming events. Breen in the car for Corsica would've been a start but oh well, he misses his favourite event and the teams home event. They could at least get on the phone to Ostberg's daddy, for extra budget to run him in Argentina/Portugal/Sardinia where he could pick up steady pts from road position alone. And with Loeb enjoying Mexico, maybe he will want to do another round or two himself if he can fit in events with his rallycross schedule. That would be brilliant

[ESTR]

What Breen needs to do is to find other team where he will be appreciated enough to drive full season. It's like in some companies where lazy and ass kissing people are rewarded and those who actually work good and hard pull the short stick.

[EstWRC]

Citroen wants Loeb to expand WRC programme

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/citroen-wants-loeb-to-expand-wrc-programme-1014418/

"Could you imagine the strength we'd have had if we'd had him all this year and Craig [Breen] in the third car


they are only now realising this ?

[Lead]

It's like in some companies where lazy and ass kissing people are rewarded and those who actually work good and hard pull the short stick.
Thats life buddy...

[Mintexmemory]

What Breen needs to do is to find other team where he will be appreciated enough to drive full season. It's like in some companies where lazy and ass kissing people are rewarded and those who actually work good and hard pull the short stick.

He’s done enough to show he has pace and consistency. He’d be a big asset to Hyundai

[wrc2017]

Citroen wants Loeb to expand WRC programme

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/citroen-wants-loeb-to-expand-wrc-programme-1014418/

"Could you imagine the strength we'd have had if we'd had him all this year and Craig [Breen] in the third car


they are only now realising this ?

Loeb will never do a full season again.

[T16]

Loeb will never do a full season again.

I reckon he will.

[wrc2017]

I reckon he will.

I bet my [EDIT=dogs] house, he wil not.

[mknight]

Citroen wants Loeb to expand WRC programme

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/citroen-wants-loeb-to-expand-wrc-programme-1014418/

"Could you imagine the strength we'd have had if we'd had him all this year and Craig [Breen] in the third car


they are only now realising this ?

It's Meeke who is saying that in the article.

[ESTR]

I think that Loeb will do a full season. He said that rally give him orgasm. And with offer of previous employer he will accept it. Meeke is on big trouble.

[er88]

I think that Loeb will do a full season. He said that rally give him orgasm. And with offer of previous employer he will accept it. Meeke is on big trouble.Lol. Having read some of your posts, I think you're the one in big trouble...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Loeb can have his rally fun on a few outings, he doesn't need to do a full season. Plus he already said the reasons why he stopped in the first place still apply.

And he has nothing to prove.

[racerx1979]

There is always something to prove. He can be fastest in a WRC 17 car.

[danon]

No need of full season.
A few outings will do...

https://s5.postimg.org/wdi1plupz/Sebastien_Loeb_-_The_Maestro.jpg

[KiwiWRCfan]

No need of full season.
A few outings will do...

https://s5.postimg.org/wdi1plupz/Sebastien_Loeb_-_The_Maestro.jpg

Nice graphic, conveys your point very well, just need to reduce it by 10% to be totally accurate.

[olemann]

No need of full season.
A few outings will do...

https://s5.postimg.org/wdi1plupz/Sebastien_Loeb_-_The_Maestro.jpg

I like history but history is just history.

[Rally Power]

Interesting, neither MN cover... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYUGEJIX0AA-R5c.jpg:large
...nor Clark ecstatic remarks on Loeb return weren’t yet mentioned here: https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/columns/why-mexico-confirmed-loeb-as-the-greatest-of-all-time/

Btw, even non motorsport media has remark Loeb return. It was a huge surprise to see a main Portuguese sports newspaper like ‘A Bola’ (99% devoted to Football) talking about the prospect of a Loeb full comeback!

[NaBUru38]

Citroën's driver lineup leaves a lot to be desired.

Meeke is fast, but crashes way too much. Breen isn't talented or consistent enough.

Many say that the C3 isn't a good car, but Loeb arrives and dominates.

[denkimi]

Many say that the C3 isn't a good car, but Loeb arrives and dominates.
Its only 2 weeks ago, but you already let fantasy cloud your memory.

I can understand that some people have a short memory, but this is dementia territory.

[pantealex]

. Breen isn't talented or consistent enough.



What ???

He has done very well this year ;)

[N.O.T]

Citroën's driver lineup leaves a lot to be desired.

Meeke is fast, but crashes way too much. Breen isn't talented or consistent enough.

Many say that the C3 isn't a good car, but Loeb arrives and dominates.

i think you should not bother with this sport.... its too complicated for you.

[Allez Andruet]

Breen isn't talented or consistent enough.
I think I already awarded the dumbest forum post award to someone, but this makes me seriously rethink it.

[er88]

Citroën's driver lineup leaves a lot to be desired.

Meeke is fast, but crashes way too much. Breen isn't talented or consistent enough.

Many say that the C3 isn't a good car, but Loeb arrives and dominates.There's no hope for you

[steve.mandzij]

I think I already awarded the dumbest forum post award to someone, but this makes me seriously rethink it.I'd say Eddie's Mexico penalty tirade still takes the cake.

[stefanvv]

I'd say Eddie's Mexico penalty tirade still takes the cake.

I must have missed that. What was it about? Which penalty?

[Franky]

I must have missed that. What was it about? Which penalty?

Grab a box of drinks and plenty of snacks - http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?39744-Rally-Mexico-2018&p=1176410&viewfull=1#post1176410

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Back to Meeke and his massive pacenotes info...

He said for Rally TDC he doesnt actually listen, he absorbs the info subconsciously and drives on 'automatic pilot'.

[EstWRC]

interview with Pierre Budar https://rallysportmag.com/interview-team-principal-pierre-budar-explains-citroen-team-policies110418/

[N.O.T]

Back to Meeke and his massive pacenotes info...

He said for Rally TDC he doesnt actually listen, he absorbs the info subconsciously and drives on 'automatic pilot'.

it shows....

[wrc2017]

it shows....

he listened to wrong pace note and went off the road. what does that show?

[Watson]

he listened to wrong pace note and went off the road. what does that show?

Don't bother.

[L555MAT]

Im no WRC driver but listening to Meeke's in car I always think the notes are called very late compared to others

[racerx1979]

Im no WRC driver but listening to Meeke's in car I always think the notes are called very late compared to others

As a co-driver (very amateur) I also think the notes are called way too late, but a lot of this has to do with Meeke wanting very descriptive notes where as other drivers have a more simplistic approach.

[dupanton]

As a co-driver (very amateur) I also think the notes are called way too late, but a lot of this has to do with Meeke wanting very descriptive notes where as other drivers have a more simplistic approach.

Yes, imo there is just too much to say...

[denkimi]

Back to Meeke and his massive pacenotes info...

He said for Rally TDC he doesnt actually listen, he absorbs the info subconsciously and drives on 'automatic pilot'.
That's normal.
Nobody actually listens as you would listen when talking to someone, at those speeds you don't have time to do that. Loeb once said that he adjust his brake bias automaticaly because he has no time to think in the car.

But that doesn't change the fact that meeke's pacenotes are unnecessary complicated.

[AnttiL]

Portugal and Sardinia confirmed for Østberg, making it three Citroen cars for those events, as well as Argentina with Al-Qassimi

[racerx1979]

That's great. Always nice to see more cars out.