Citroen WRT [Archive] - Page 4

dimviii

5th September 2017, 18:01

The recruitment of the four-time French World Champion Sébastien Ogier, currently at M-Sport, is "clearly the track that is preferred" for the 2018 season of WRC, assured Citroën Racing Director Yves Matton to AFP this Tuesday.
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Andreas Mikkelsen, who has raced Citroën three times for a rally this season, will finish 2017 at Hyundai. Why let him go?
"We had to make choices about our future strategy, and even though Andreas was one of the possible scenarios for next year, it was not the right scenario at the moment. position now and, in order not to block other opportunities, it was necessary to renounce Andreas so that it can sign with Hyundai.
What are these opportunities? We talk a lot about Sébastien Ogier ...
"Sébastien Ogier is clearly our owner's file for the moment and that's why we did not want to crash because our constraints, in particular budget constraints, prevent us from following several opportunities."
How are your discussions going?
"Negotiations are still going on quite normally, and we are still discussing the basic principles and the basis for a possible collaboration, there is no conclusion at this time, it is still too early. "
Is Mikkelsen still an option if these negotiations do not succeed? Or do you have others?
"Mikkelsen's commitments are likely to make it an option that will not be possible next year ... For the moment, Ogier is clearly the preferred track. We negotiate with him in a very exclusive for the moment. "
We are also talking about a return of Sébastien Loeb for some rallies in 2018. What about?
"Sébastien Loeb is going to do another test session on the ground in the course of September. He does not hide his interest in two or three rallies next year, but I think his final decision, and therefore the exchanges on the subject, will be possible only once it has rolled on earth and that it will be quite able to know where it is on this surface.
What were the lessons of his first asphalt test session in August?
"Sébastien Loeb gave us most of the confirmation of what our drivers had defined as a car for the asphalt after the tests in Germany. We were also lucky that he could ride in the rain, where we still have work. There, he was able to do some work that we could not do with our other drivers.

https://www.rtbf.be/sport/moteurs/rallye/wrc/detail_yves-matton-ogier-est-clairement-la-piste-que-l-on-privilegie-chez-citroen?id=9700975

Simmi

5th September 2017, 18:20

Fast Eddie WRC

5th September 2017, 18:56

If Ogier leaves for Citroen I think he'll regret it. As they say, never go back..

EstWRC

5th September 2017, 18:57

well, that interview says it all really...really sorry for m-sport

Andre Oliveira

5th September 2017, 19:06

So, for Citroën is Seb or Seb.

er88

5th September 2017, 19:54

That's a pretty revealing interview from Matton. Again he's going to look bad if Ogier doesn't end up signing and they seemingly let Mikkelsen walk.

Big question is if they get their man how does that team come together next year? Unless they run four cars someone is getting turfed out. Loeb/Lefebvre sharing a car seems to make sense. You have to wonder if it's between Kris and Craig for the other seat...

Again I think the four-car rule is needed to save the career of Sordo, Hanninen and maybe Meeke?As far as im aware Meeke is there next year for the full season, can't see that changing now. If/when Citroen announce Seb they will have not only filled their need for a French driver, but will have signed the best driver in the world. Someone is going to have showcase the new C3 R5s potential and that is a perfect role for Lefebrve (maybe Breen on 1 or 2 events).

Citroen/ PSA can't just expect that car to sell really well off the back of the last 3 cars being iffy (C3, two R5s). Maybe stepping back for a year like Evans would benefit Lefebrve too, as he has been hugely out his depth this year. No pace and constant crashing.

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steve.mandzij

5th September 2017, 19:59

As far as im aware Meeke is there next year for the full season, can't see that changing now. If/when Citroen announce Seb they will have not only filled their need for a French driver, but will have signed the best driver in the world. Someone is going to have showcase the new C3 R5s potential and that is a perfect role for Lefebrve (maybe Breen on 1 or 2 events).

Citroen/ PSA can't just expect that car to sell really well off the back of the last 3 cars being iffy (C3, two R5s). Maybe stepping back for a year like Evans would benefit Lefebrve too, as he has been hugely out his depth this year. No pace and constant crashing.

Sent from my SM-G920F using TapatalkUnfair to Lefebvre, who was the leading Citroën in Poland. He's been nowhere pace wise but he hasn't crashed nearly as much as Meeke or Paddon.

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Simmi

5th September 2017, 20:20

Unfair to Lefebvre, who was the leading Citroën in Poland. He's been nowhere pace wise but he hasn't crashed nearly as much as Meeke or Paddon.

The two statements I've bolded are kind of at odds with each other.

steve.mandzij

5th September 2017, 20:26

The two statements I've bolded are kind of at odds with each other.I've failed with wording again. I meant that saying he's crashed constantly was unfair. Then again, I don't recall many of his rallies this year.

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Eli

5th September 2017, 20:31

If Citroen are going to get Ogier (probably have signed the deal already-as some people already said in this forum the silly season over now it's just the announcements left), they should let Meeke, Ogier & Breen drive full time, and Qassimi share the forth car with Lefebvre or something...but that's assuming the FIA will permit 4 car teams....if it stays 3....the drivers will be in a bit of a pickle.

doubled1978

5th September 2017, 20:32

I'm not having the Leferbrve in Poland stuff, he was 3min 11sec off the lead after what was his best ever appearance in a WRC car, Meeke after what was a disaster in Finland, where he had no confidence and lost well over a minute with a puncture was 3min 12sec off the lead.
I'm not using this to support Meeke, rather show that I just don't think SL is anything like quick enough to justify a seat. Not crashing is very little use if you're that slow.

AnttiL

5th September 2017, 20:55

Lefebvre has had a crash/off of some sort in every WRC rally he's driven this year except for Poland, which was a clean good run. That's pretty constant crashing I'd say.

Andre Oliveira

5th September 2017, 21:16

If, Ogier champion and go to Citroën, in 2018, the worst 2017 team will have... #1 on windows lool

Rally Power

5th September 2017, 21:29

It’d be great to see Ogier at Citroen (still believe that becoming a national hero is his main motivation), but having Matton saying he’s totally focused on getting him doesn’t sound reassuring enought…I hope Ogier is directly dealing with Mr. Tavares.

Btw, it’s funny to see how people can be so neutral and fair: Matton was a moron because he decided Meeke would skip Poland; Nandan is a genius because he’s putting Paddon on the shelf at Spain…

Eli

5th September 2017, 21:37

Simmi

5th September 2017, 21:53

I've failed with wording again. I meant that saying he's crashed constantly was unfair. Then again, I don't recall many of his rallies this year.

That's my bad mate - I didn't read full the post you were quoting. Sorry.

From Lefebvre though we've seen a couple of quick scratch times but he's not put forward any eye-catching performances. Look what Suninen did on day one in a WRC. I don't mind that SL is crashing - but in between the crashes he needs to show speed and he hasn't done that enough.

Again true talented guys like Suninen and Lappi make a mockery of Lefebvre - and the concept of taking a whole season to get up to speed.

Fast Eddie WRC

7th September 2017, 16:22

Citroen team principal Yves Matton says signing Sebastien Ogier is now his priority for the 2018 World Rally Championship.

Four-time WRC champion Ogier has been in discussion with his former employer over the last month and Matton can now see no major obstacles to a deal to bring Ogier back to the team he left in 2011.

"We are making it our priority in our plans to make him join our team," Matton told Autosport.

"We are step-by-step right now and it's difficult to say what will be his final answer - for sure, we are not the only ones who are trying to convince him!

"At the moment there is not a major obstacle.

"That's not to say there may not be an obstacle and it could be a major one, but at the moment we are going around the different points to find what are his expectations and our expectations and our targets."

Asked how confident he was of Ogier driving a C3 WRC next season, Matton replied: "It doesn't matter if it's 90% or 10%, if it's not 100%, it's not signed.

"It would be good to have him back, but the priority is to have the fastest driver - that he is French and we are a French team is, what you would say in English: the cherry on top of the cake."

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/131688/signing-ogier-now-citroen-priority-for-2018

mknight

7th September 2017, 16:52

For all we know they could have already signed. I doubt there will be any official announcement before titles are decided.

racerx1979

7th September 2017, 18:12

Would be strange to say he has already signed a deal already. Has it ever happened in the past where a driver in the points lead switches teams and makes it public this early in the game?

Simmi

7th September 2017, 18:22

Would be strange to say he has already signed a deal already. Has it ever happened in the past where a driver in the points lead switches teams and makes it public this early in the game?

Burnsy to Peugeot was out before he won the title in 2001 and I seem to remember it all got quite acrimonious. But I don't think that was announced this early. I'm sure there have been others.

I think it's a moot point anyway as I highly doubt he's signed. IMO he owes it to M-Sport to give them at least a chance to put an offer together.

noel157

8th September 2017, 11:18

Burnsy to Peugeot was out before he won the title in 2001 and I seem to remember it all got quite acrimonious. But I don't think that was announced this early. I'm sure there have been others.

I think it's a moot point anyway as I highly doubt he's signed. IMO he owes it to M-Sport to give them at least a chance to put an offer together.

Ogier will be in a Fiesta next season.

seb_sh

8th September 2017, 12:00

Ogier will be in a Fiesta next season.

That would be devastating for Matton. The cherry on top of the mismanagement cake.

EstWRC

8th September 2017, 12:08

Ogier will be in a Fiesta next season.

My apologies if I'm mistaken but I remember you saying last year that neuville will definitely be in Citroen

GigiGalliNo1

8th September 2017, 15:31

And my mistake that Ogier was going to M-Sport... 3-4 years too early

AL14

9th September 2017, 08:29

So it seems they are not even close to a deal with Ogier for next year. Mikkelsen is gone now, they have only him... what if they don't hire him? I don't think this gamble is a good idea.

Rally Power

9th September 2017, 13:11

So it seems they are not even close to a deal with Ogier for next year. Mikkelsen is gone now, they have only him... what if they don't hire him? I don't think this gamble is a good idea.

Honestly, I agree with the other guys that believe Ogier has already signed with Citroen. Ogier is their only chance to become competitive again, so there should be no need for long talks or discussions, like Matton is saying; they just have to sign him and fulfill his requests. Hopefully, that’s what they’ve already done.

mknight

9th September 2017, 17:46

I am one of those who believes Ogier is already signed.
That said remember we are talking about Matton, the guy that was not interested in Latvala or Mikkelsen after VW quit. We can see how that worked out, first after like 12 crashes in total (Meeke + Lefevbre) and half the season gone they started to change the car.

Andre Oliveira

9th September 2017, 18:00

I don't believe. They are french, they would claim to 4 winds that allready signed if yes.

Just a big risk and gamble. Let's wait and see.

AnttiL

9th September 2017, 19:08

I also believe Ogier is signing with Citroen because that's the only option he has.

EDIT: Unless Ford as a factory team returns.

olemann

9th September 2017, 19:16

I think the contract with Ogier was made on 4 September. This is because they let Mikkelsen go to Hyundai.

Andre Oliveira

9th September 2017, 19:43

For me is simple:

Hyundai contact Mikkelsen and want him
He talked with Citroën and said that have possibility to run on Hyundai
Citroën said: We want try Ogier first, we could have no budget to both
Mikkelsen accept Hyundai proposal cause he know Hyundai is best team/car and he don't want stay to last time choice as last year

Now, Citroën is still waiting Ogier reply, that is yet waiting Malcolm Wilson last reply.

AnttiL

9th September 2017, 20:08

Mikkelsen said already during Germany that he wishes to do the three last rallies in the same team he drives for in 2018.

AnttiL

9th September 2017, 20:17

Would be strange to say he has already signed a deal already. Has it ever happened in the past where a driver in the points lead switches teams and makes it public this early in the game?

How did it go in 1992? For most of the season, Auriol was dominating in the Lancia while Sainz struggled with the new Toyota. Then on the three last rounds Sainz turned the tables and became champion. In 1993, Auriol (and Kankkunen) went to Toyota while Sainz had one of his worst seasons in the Lancia.

The sort of same happened when Kankkunen got frustrated at the unreliable Celica in 1989. After retiring from the lead once again in 1000 Lakes, he decided to make a deal with Lancia for the next season. Turns out he won the next rally in Australia in the Toyota while Sainz went on to be world champion next year in the same car.

Simmi

13th September 2017, 08:29

So the big cover story in Motorsport News today is about Citroen trying to create a WRC superteam of Ogier, Meeke and Loeb.

Matton again talks openly about trying to sign Ogier and also about Loeb coming in for a limited programme. He basically says if Loeb likes the car enough in the upcoming gravel test that they will accommodate him in the team for select rounds. Not a full season.

He also specifies that Meeke's contract next year is for all the rallies, while Breen and Lefebvre have contracts, but with no specified number of WRC rounds. So that's a good detail confirmed.

Matton also crucially says that the three-car manufacturer points scoring rule is "impossible for next year." He says more likely 2019, and also seems to have heard a different interpretation, with four drivers all able to score but you have to enter two teams?

That's confused me and I think it's again another instance where Mahonen tells David Evans a plan that isn't confirmed or fully formed. Let's see what happens there...

Finally Citroen say the recent decision to block paddleshift on the R5s means they can't homologate the new car in time for the Monte. The car was designed around that system to it will apparently take an additional two months of designs/testing to rectify it. Needless to say they are pissed at the WRC Commission.

noel157

13th September 2017, 09:54

^^^^ And you missed the major point, Ogier and Meeke having breakfast:

"“I don’t know how they get on,” said Matton. “And, in one way, it doesn’t matter; when they are on the starting line, one does not care about the other one. It’s when they are having breakfast and things like this that these things matter.”

: )

jparker

13th September 2017, 09:58

Matton again talks openly about trying to sign Ogier ....

Looks like Matton is trying to convince WRC rally community that Ogier MUST sign with Citroen, which makes me believe Ogier is still waiting.

Simmi

13th September 2017, 10:23

Web article here: https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/citroen-wants-ogier-to-lead-wrc-super-team/

Eli

13th September 2017, 10:32

Looks more likely now that Ogier will leave M-Sport, shame, if only Ford would come back...if only.

Andre Oliveira

13th September 2017, 10:39

Same news, same interviews, repetead ad nauseam

Tarmop

13th September 2017, 10:44

Quite the opposite imo. He would have left, if there wasn`t a 50-50(?) chance of staying in Fiesta. Also remember the interview, where Wilson said that there will be a big meeting between them and Ford in late September.

There have allways been those talks, repeated for months (Wilson`s interest in Neuville for example).

Eli

13th September 2017, 10:45

AnttiL

13th September 2017, 10:50

Same news, same interviews, repetead ad nauseam

Well this had some new bits (2+2 car team possibility, Loeb doing several rallies, Meeke and Ogier relationship)

Tarmop

13th September 2017, 10:53

Which interview?

http://www.marca.com/motor/rallies/2017/08/23/599d577a22601dd3338b45ab.html

Native speakers translated it somewhere here...

Eli

13th September 2017, 10:55

http://www.marca.com/motor/rallies/2017/08/23/599d577a22601dd3338b45ab.html

Native speakers translated it somewhere here...

Thankx:)

AnttiL

13th September 2017, 11:00

http://www.marca.com/motor/rallies/2017/08/23/599d577a22601dd3338b45ab.html

Strange that translating the article directly through Google Chrome omits the sentence about the meeting, but if I copy paste that into Google Translate, it does indeed say that they will have a meeting in September.

Andre Oliveira

13th September 2017, 12:30

Yes, bad translation system.

Simmi

13th September 2017, 12:36

Same news, same interviews, repetead ad nauseam

Agree to an extent but I think this is the clearest sign yet that Loeb will do some rallies next year. I definitely feel sorry for Breen though. Seems the odds are stacked against him to get a full campaign next year.

tomhlord

13th September 2017, 14:19

Agree to an extent but I think this is the clearest sign yet that Loeb will do some rallies next year. I definitely feel sorry for Breen though. Seems the odds are stacked against him to get a full campaign next year.

Indeed, poor Breen.

The downside of former champions making a comeback is potentially taking seats away from up and comers.

Simmi

13th September 2017, 15:51

I actually wonder if M-Sport do get cleaned out as many suspect, whether Malcolm might consider Breen? Don't think he's getting paid at Citroen so he could take his services elsewhere I guess. If Citroen agree to release him.

I think he's proven this year he's worthy of a full championship.

Rally Power

13th September 2017, 22:06

Btw, Breen is going to enter the next Portuguese championship event at the wheel of the Vodafone/Sports&You DS3 R5 of JP Fontes. Rali de Mortágua (22/23 September) is a compact gravel rally at the north of Coimbra, using some stages that were part of Portugal Rally during the 90’s. Best luck to him and to Martin!
https://twitter.com/Craig_Breen/status/907935924167872512

Andre Oliveira

13th September 2017, 23:09

No Martin, Andrew Haynes instead.

Rally Power

14th September 2017, 01:05

Yep, its best luck to Breen and Haynes! Hope they enjoy the wknd at Mortágua.

Agree to an extent but I think this is the clearest sign yet that Loeb will do some rallies next year. I definitely feel sorry for Breen though. Seems the odds are stacked against him to get a full campaign next year.

http://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/auto-moto/rallye-sebastien-loeb-n-ecarte-pas-un-retour-ponctuel-sur-le-circuit-wrc-1252899.html
On this one (it was taken 4 days ago), Loeb says he’d enjoy doing a couple of events in the C3, but not a full WRC season. Next year he plans to be in the WRX again, even if Peugeot hasn’t yet confirmed their continuation at the series.

With Ogier in the team, there’s no more ‘obligation’ to enter Lefebvre in order to have a French driver; maybe he’ll do 3 or 4 events in addition to the R5 program and Breen the remaining 9 or 10 rallys in the 3rd car, with the 4th unit being occasionally shared by Loeb and Al Qassimi…anyway, the fine news is that Meeke will keep a WRC seat next season, something that looked almost impossible a couple of months ago. Good for him, good for WRC!

Norm75

14th September 2017, 08:08

With regard to the Meeke/Ogier relationship, I do recall seeing pictures a couple of seasons ago (may have been vt on wrc program) where meeke was having a bit of car trouble, and Ogier was taking a look seeing if he could help out, between stages.

I don't see that behaviour happening between two drivers that don't get on OK.

Simmi

14th September 2017, 10:27

From what I can see there seems to be a healthy respect for each other. And that's all you need.

It takes all the pressure and limelight off Meeke - even more so if Loeb joins. He can just concentrate on doing the rallies and build back up. Plus he has a perfect benchmark in Ogier.

er88

14th September 2017, 15:12

Meeke spoke numerous times last season saying he would have no problem working with Ogier at Citroen. Think it was a certain Belgian who is apparently notoriously difficult to work with and get along with for some people, who was the only driver Meeke wasn't keen to have alongside him in the team.

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sonnybobiche

14th September 2017, 16:10

Think it was a certain Belgian who is apparently notoriously difficult to work with and get along with for some people, who was the only driver Meeke wasn't keen to have alongside him in the team.

Yeah but what are the odds Freddy Loix would come out of retirement anyway?

cali

14th September 2017, 16:42

Yeah but what are the odds Freddy Loix would come out of retirement anyway?You mean Duval? :D

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Eli

20th September 2017, 20:32

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/loeb-completes-gravel-test-with-citroen/

Done & dusted as they say....or is it? Time will tell if Loeb is in (although imho he'll probably be there a bit for 2018).

mknight

20th September 2017, 21:36

Note that the test road on the vid is quite smooth and wide.

Not saying that's necessarily bad idea since it's the first gravel test for him, but it certainly isn't the kind of gravel surface the C3 has struggled on so far.

wrc2017

20th September 2017, 22:58

rear of car called into question again. at least the demigod has confirmed what the other mear motal drivers have been saying about the C3 since its inception.
Note that the test road on the vid is quite smooth and wide.

Not saying that's necessarily bad idea since it's the first gravel test for him, but it certainly isn't the kind of gravel surface the C3 has struggled on so far.

ToughMac

21st September 2017, 00:33

With all this talk of Loeb coming back next year will Daniel Elena also be returning?

rage82

21st September 2017, 07:37

I believe that if Loeb returns it would be only with Daniel Elena. They are testing together and from the tweets from Daniel it looks like he hasn't nothing against doing some rallies again.

AnttiL

21st September 2017, 07:39

I believe that if Loeb returns it would be only with Daniel Elena. They are testing together and from the tweets from Daniel it looks like he hasn't nothing against doing some rallies again.

exactly, I think it was him who tweeted after the first tarmac test something like "when do we get to do this again?"

dimviii

21st September 2017, 17:00

"I didn't really know what to expect and finally I found it not too difficult to drive. The feeling is quite good, it's maybe a bit tricky in the fast corners when you lose the grip, a bit like on Tarmac, but the rest seems to be quite efficient. I was happy also to have a good feeling in the car and in the stage."

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/september-2017/loeb-open-to-return/page/4862--12-12-.html

gorganl2000

21st September 2017, 17:01

given their successful history together, i suspect Loeb may be very skeptical of doing any WRC rallies with anyone but Elena.
it just takes too long to build that kind of relationship that they have...its both professional and personal.
the only other person on the radar is his wife for those odd rallies and i don't think he would be willing/risking to do a fully competitive WRC event with her (even if she may be capable).

Daniel may need to get back into rally shape now though, as he seems to be really enjoying his retirement....lol

RAS007

21st September 2017, 20:45

wrc2017

21st September 2017, 22:08

If Seb is as smart as I think he is.. he will not return to WRC

Eli

22nd September 2017, 10:25

If Seb is as smart as I think he is.. he will not return to WRC

Perhaps he will for just 2 rounds.

gorganl2000

22nd September 2017, 15:54

If Seb is as smart as I think he is.. he will not return to WRC

don't think it will make any difference to his legacy either way
will he be the first to come back and do some testing and possibly a few events in between?
he has already done a few events after his official retirement----and was competitive for the most part....i think at this stage that all that matters and if he can get a few points for the manufacturer, as he's surely not looking to win the WDC

wrc2017

22nd September 2017, 18:02

don't think it will make any difference to his legacy either way
will he be the first to come back and do some testing and possibly a few events in between?
he has already done a few events after his official retirement----and was competitive for the most part....i think at this stage that all that matters and if he can get a few points for the manufacturer, as he's surely not looking to win the WDC

Im just looking at the videos.. its night and day between Meeke and Loeb.. on gravel.

dimviii

22nd September 2017, 18:35

Im just looking at the videos.. its night and day between Meeke and Loeb.. on gravel.

who is the night and who is the day?

Eli

22nd September 2017, 20:19

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/feature/7738/would-loeb-be-a-mistake-for-citroen

Does anyone have access to the article?

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22nd September 2017, 21:37

Do they really need Ogier AND Loeb?

One or two events plus testing seems like a good idea for Loeb if Ogier stays at M-Sport, otherwise I don't see the point really.

EstWRC

26th September 2017, 07:40

https://twitter.com/michelin_sport/status/912568441499979778

Good morning! We hear something involving @CitroenRacing at @Michelin_Sport is planned for today. #wrc

A big welcome to @CitroenRacing driver @krismeeke. Follow us… We’ve got a surprise in store at around 1pm French time! #wrc #Michelin

Zeakiwi

26th September 2017, 09:34

Is Meeke going to do Dakar instead of Loeb?, so Loeb can concentrate on winning Monte Carlo?
Dakar runs to the 20th January, 2018. Monte Carlo Rally starts on the 22nd January, 2018

Tarmop

26th September 2017, 09:41

Well, last time the 9 time champ. wanted to add a Dakar win to his list of achievements...

tomhlord

26th September 2017, 09:45

Is Meeke going to do Dakar instead of Loeb?, so Loeb can concentrate on winning Monte Carlo?
Dakar runs to the 20th January, 2018. Monte Carlo Rally starts on the 22nd January, 2018

Nope.

EstWRC

26th September 2017, 11:17

Huge crowd in the Michelin's factory for the @CitroenRacing's surprise

https://twitter.com/michelin_sport/status/912620848170889216

Eli

26th September 2017, 12:07

any news about Citroen Racing's surprise?

dupanton

26th September 2017, 12:24

any news about Citroen Racing's surprise?

Just a bunch of people getting a codrive with Meeke. Nothing else (yet)...

racerx1979

26th September 2017, 16:36

I'm assuming that is it.... considering we are late in the day.

wrc2017

26th September 2017, 22:48

nice show..

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZhR2T1ljPy/

AnttiL

27th September 2017, 08:23

https://twitter.com/davidevansrally/status/912929679866286080

Arrived in the dark last night, didn't realise the chateau was quite so chateauey. #somewhereinFrance
---
Also found #somewhereinFrance

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKtgtGfXUAAo-ZY.jpg

Something going on? Or another interesting day of doing donuts with a celebrity co-driver?

nafpaktos

27th September 2017, 18:34

nice show..

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZhR2T1ljPy/

No crash for Meeke this time?

wrc2017

27th September 2017, 23:22

dry up

No crash for Meeke this time?

EstWRC

28th September 2017, 09:26

good article about the situation in the team

Citroen’s WRC slump down to lack of confidence

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/citroens-wrc-slump-down-to-lack-of-confidence/

lets hope they get things turned around as soon as possible!

nafpaktos

28th September 2017, 16:51

dry up

This is not an answer.Did he crash this time or it was a successful event for him?If he didn't crash his morale will be high for the upcoming event and this is very important,at least not to crash to a concrete block with 5km/h!!!

wrc2017

28th September 2017, 20:46

why didnt they ask you,
if they wanted to be sure of not crashing?
This is not an answer.Did he crash this time or it was a successful event for him?If he didn't crash his morale will be high for the upcoming event and this is very important,at least not to crash to a concrete block with 5km/h!!!

AnttiL

1st October 2017, 06:51

https://rallysportmag.com/preview-2017-catalunya-rally-wrc-11/

The drivers to be entered by the team for Wales Rally GB will be Meeke, Breen and Al Qassimi

They must have noticed that the live tv stages give the most coverage for the first car running, and to get first running on a tv stage, you need to be the slowest WRC...

TWRC

2nd October 2017, 09:44

According to rallye-magazin.de, Citroën have used jokers to change the suspension geometry, and will bring the new parts to Spain. Will be interesting to see if anything changes for the better.

tomhlord

2nd October 2017, 13:05

According to rallye-magazin.de, Citroën have used jokers to change the suspension geometry, and will bring the new parts to Spain. Will be interesting to see if anything changes for the better.

Good shout, wonder if that is for both surfaces? Hopefully a step forward.

er88

4th October 2017, 12:08

So they won't be entering Lefebrve in GB, and Khalid takes the 3rd car. Would've expected 4 cars if the Sheikh wanted to drive.
Also read in motorpsort news that they won't be testing in Wales at all before the rally, as it's too expensive.
They also don't appear to have done any tarmac testing for Spain (to my knowledge) so it does it seem like there is very little in the way of budget right now. Only Ogier signing can change that and turn their fortunes around.

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seb_sh

4th October 2017, 12:51

I think it's also because they have written this year off and are focusing only on developments for next year.

Fast Eddie WRC

4th October 2017, 13:07

Can Citroen afford to sign Ogier... can they afford not to ?

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/columns/can-citroen-actually-afford-to-sign-ogier/

racerx1979

4th October 2017, 15:19

Can Citroen afford to sign Ogier... can they afford not to ?

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/columns/can-citroen-actually-afford-to-sign-ogier/

Not sure what to think of this article. We all know there is no need for Citroen to test in Wales as they're writing off this season. M-Sport on the other hand is in the fight for the drivers championship and they will most likely get the manu championship as well at this rate. And who can blame Citroen for saving money where they can so they can possibly payout for Ogier and or Loeb for 2018. I would do the same if I were running a team and had no chance of winning this year while trying to sign the champ.

If they don't get Ogier they will have Meeke and most likely Loeb for a few events. As for Ford, Wilson already stated he cannot keep Ogier unless Ford hops on or they get alternative funding. If the Ford boys don't come in I'm not sure they can sell enough M-Sport fanboy kits and or I love Seb shirts to give Seb what he wants while keeping development on par with teams like Toyota and Hyundai. I personally think the latter situation sounds a lot worse than Citroen saying they don't want to test in Wales because we have no chance at anything this year.

Anyways, Evans comes off like a little cry baby in this case. :bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:

Fast Eddie WRC

4th October 2017, 15:35

Peugeot commits to 2018 WRX season with Loeb:

https://t.co/pQgHiu5OWl #WorldRX https://t.co/OEYuZvgwqV

racerx1979

4th October 2017, 15:52

Peugeot commits to 2018 WRX season with Loeb:

https://t.co/pQgHiu5OWl #WorldRX https://t.co/OEYuZvgwqV

Leaves a few events where he can possibly do a WRC drive, but seems unlikely unless they want him to drive in Monte.

AndyRAC

4th October 2017, 15:57

Peugeot commits to 2018 WRX season with Loeb:

https://t.co/pQgHiu5OWl #WorldRX https://t.co/OEYuZvgwqV

I was hoping he'd bin WRX off....a bit too much crash, bang, wallop for his style of driving.

Fast Eddie WRC

4th October 2017, 16:03

Leaves a few events where he can possibly do a WRC drive, but seems unlikely unless they want him to drive in Monte.

Maybe this also ponts to PSA confidence in Ogier's return to Citroen...

Simmi

4th October 2017, 16:06

Leaves a few events where he can possibly do a WRC drive, but seems unlikely unless they want him to drive in Monte.

There was a story in Motorsport News this morning specifically about Loeb doing the Monte. Tight turnaround with Dakar but Matton say it's an event where experience and 'feel' in tough conditions can be as much if not more important than extensive pre-event testing.

doubled1978

4th October 2017, 19:10

I can understand them not bothering to test in Wales, as has been said it's expensive and the event is unlikely to be a good one for them anyway, especially given Meeke and Breen will start way back on day 1.
Better to use the rally as an extended test in itself and prepare for next year I would have thought.

mknight

4th October 2017, 22:54

Without Ogier Citroen is very unlikely to be top contender in 2018 and I fear they might even consider leaving by the end of the year.

It's not only the speed/consistency and development, but much more the extra funding he will likely get (from Citroen CEO) and pushing the team when he is not happy with the car.

AnttiL

5th October 2017, 18:01

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/132217/loeb-closing-on-wrc-return-for-monte-carlo

Loeb's return in Monte Carlo looking again more probable

seb_sh

6th October 2017, 08:36

AnttiL

6th October 2017, 08:40

interesting comments in the rally radio interview, Breen said he has been sleeping well in the past two weeks regarding next year while Lefebvre says he has a contract but doesn't know which car and hints he'll drive the C3 R5.

Yeh, if Ogier joins the team, it's most likely R5 for Lefebvre. If not, I think he'll be in the third car with Loeb and Al-Qassimi.

pantealex

6th October 2017, 08:54

Yeh, if Ogier joins the team, it's most likely R5 for Lefebvre. If not, I think he'll be in the third car with Loeb and Al-Qassimi.

Where is Breen in that scenario ?

AnttiL

6th October 2017, 08:56

Where is Breen in that scenario ?

Ogier-Meeke-Breen/Loeb/Al-Qassimi

or

Meeke-Breen-Lefebvre/Loeb/Al-Qassimi

Jinu13

7th October 2017, 03:35

I'm in Suzuka for the F1, donning my Citroen WRC hat as you do, trecking round to my seat and some lady shouts over in Japanese, "Citroen are last you know!" Um, thanks for the reminder... Hopefully there's some good news gonna come in from the other side of the planet :)

dimviii

7th October 2017, 11:43

Kris Meeke explains Citroen’s 2017 problems

Citroen’s troubled WRC lead driver, Kris Meeke, told WRC Live Radio his opinions on why 2017 has been such a bad season for Citroen Racing, most of all for his poor results so far.
“What we need in the team is a bit of stability and now we have Christophe Besse, our new Technical Director. I knew him from when he was at Citroen before,” Meeke said.
“He’s been away in racing and has come back to rallies. He seems to be quite a calming influence in the engineering side of things. But generally in the team, with drivers chopped and changed in the middle of the year and nobody knows what’s happening, it just affects the spirit, it affects the moral.
“I just want the stability and to feel confident again. We still have work to do, but the important thing is to try to feel comfortable. It comes from everything.
“In fact if you’re confident in your car, it breeds confidence in the team, confidence starts from there. There are certain reasons why we don’t feel confident. When things have been chopped and changed without big reason you don’t really know what’s happening or who’s in control.
“Corsica and Germany showed how quick it (the car) can be on asphalt. The car’s fast on gravel too, we led in Portugal, we led in Sardinia, we were running just behind Elfyn (Evans) in Argentina before we had our problems.
“There have been lots of different issues. The nervousness of the car hasn’t been our main problem this year. There are times when it makes a mistake, and all the time I’ve purely been to blame for a mistake. There have been a few mechanical troubles.

“Every driver who has driven the car on gravel has said they don’t feel secure when they’re driving it. You need a car that’s wrapped around you. When you are going through the stage you need the car doing what you tell it, and not the car telling you what it’s going to do. That’s a tricky situation.
“When we were able to get a result doesn’t mean that everything’s perfect, but it gives certain people within the team the chance to say everything’s fine. We just need a calm approach, get the confidence back and continue to analyse how we can give ourselves more confidence on the gravel, and create a bigger operating window.
“Christophe has only been in his job full time in the last two to three weeks, but it is not one thing which has been our issue all year. We’ve had quite a few mechanical troubles, I’ve made some mistakes, and we just need to work through things and get more confidence with the car in certain conditions.”

https://rallysportmag.com/kris-meeke-explains-citroens-2017-problems/

mknight

7th October 2017, 16:37

The "chopping and changing of drivers in the middle of the year" happened after:

- Citroen had no good setup for both Monte and Sweden (their words)
- Lefebvre crashed in all 4 of his C3 outings, each and every time while way off pace
- Meeke crashed 4 times in 3 rallies in a row

Yep it likely created quite some chaos in the team. Lets hope things calm down and they also get an additional reliable and fast driver so that they are not dead-last in the manu champs next year. Otherwise the future of the team is in doubt as their main sponsor (Abu Dhabi) already pointed out.

wrc2017

7th October 2017, 18:09

yawn. seriously...
The "chopping and changing of drivers in the middle of the year" happened after:

- Citroen had no good setup for both Monte and Sweden (their words)
- Lefebvre crashed in all 4 of his C3 outings, each and every time while way off pace
- Meeke crashed 4 times in 3 rallies in a row

Yep it likely created quite some chaos in the team. Lets hope things calm down and they also get an additional reliable and fast driver so that they are not dead-last in the manu champs next year. Otherwise the future of the team is in doubt as their main sponsor (Abu Dhabi) already pointed out.

AnttiL

28th October 2017, 07:16

Loeb said on Red Bull TV that he hasn't yet checked which rallies clash with his rallycross plans. Apparently he could do all WRC events except Sardegna and Deutschland. And perhaps Silk Way Rally clashes with Rally Finland.

nafpaktos

31st October 2017, 12:14

https://www.redbull.tv/video/AP-1TMAX1BHH1W11/sebastien-loeb-returns

Rally Power

2nd November 2017, 19:15

Well in at least two articles after Germany Matton said how focused they were only on getting Ogier and that it was the reason why they let Mikkelsen go.
If they now don't get Ogier either it will be one more item on the list of his fails this year. Let's list the main ones:
1. Didn't get any of the 3 VW drivers (and said he was not interested in Latvala or Mikkelsen at all), now out of those 3:
- Ogier won the championship
- Latvala was 4th, while Citroen main driver will be 6th or 7th
- Mikkelsen was taken into the team 6 months later and first after he came changes on the car were made, he also gave the team one of the 3 podiums
Meanwhile out of his 3 drivers, one driver got 8 crashes in 11 rallies, another got 4 crashes in 7 rallies and has only shown decent speed in a single rally
2. Came with a twitchy car on gravel after a year of preparation
3. Arrived in Monte and Sweden "without a good setup" (his own words)
4. His coaching of Meeke after Corsica "Kris should focus on getting single rally wins and not on championship", resulted in 4 DNFs with multiple destroyed cars and his main driver benched.
I really do wonder how he convinces his bosses that he is the right man for the job.

Yep, there’s no doubt Citroen WRC situation is hard to understand, but is Matton the only one to blame?

Citroen (for sure not Matton) decided to quit WTCC (where they dominated, having a much bigger budget than competition) to focus on WRC. Without delays, they started, under new tech chief Fregosi supervision, the C3 design, testing and developing with Meeke as an experienced driver and the other two already used to the team. All reports during 2016 tests indicated the car potential was great and all drivers seemed happy. So, why bother to sign Ogier?

Then ’17 season started and the team fall apart: the car ends to be a piece of junk; Fregosi is totally lost; Meeke goes into Kamikaze mode; Breen struggles to get into top 5; Lefebvre is a waste and Matton starts to sound desperate...Fregosi is fired, Meeke is send to rest, Mikkelsen is called to give a hand (mainly to prove the car is a crap) but he’s not kept as all current drivers will be somehow maintaned in 2018 and Ogier becomes Citroen only option for a new sign, according to Matton. At the same time Loeb unexpectedly resurfaces, with the team (Mrs. Jackson included) saying he can run some events next year...

Now, despite PSA being Europe’s 2nd largest manu and Abu Dhabi wealthy support, the word is they have no budget to hire Ogier...honestly, we’ll we ever know what the heck is going on and who’s really in charge?

mknight

2nd November 2017, 21:07

Most likely not, but there are a few things Matton cloud totally be blamed for:

1. The 3 drivers were arguably not the best choice to develop a completely new car
- Breen and Lefevbre had minimal experience in WRC car at that point.
- Meeke drove DS3 a lot, Mini for 1 year (not exactly epic car) and then S11 Impreza in the old days. He might not be very good at developing/setup (bringing DS3 to pre-event tests multiple times for comparison). Then again he might be very good but the development team did not listen to him (also some indications of that)... then this lack of communication is also Matton's fault.

There should have been some experienced driver to help with development (for example Hirvonen, P. Solberg .... or Loeb!), I have not heard of anyone doing that.

2. Matton refused to let Ogier even test the C3 in 2016
My theory on that is that Matton though C3 was epic, but did no have money for Ogier and though the car was so good that his lineup is enough. This would kind of reinforce point 1.
That means over-confidence. Surely even if he would not sign for them Ogier would give them some feedback relative to 2017 Polo. and if he was so impressed he'd sing with lower salary anyway?

3. What happened after Germany - If he lets Mikkelsen go to focus on Ogier he better be damn sure that he gets him. That does not seem to be the case.

doubled1978

2nd November 2017, 21:40

I think if they had let Loeb drive it near the start, most of this rubbish could have been avoided. If he had fed back that it was too nervous and hard to drive I am sure he would have been believed, and they would have acted on the issues quicker. From the outside it looks like they believed the engineer over the drivers until Mikkelsen had a go in it and said it was crap. It was only then that things started to happen.

I don't know what to think about the budget stuff, I'm not sure I believe that they don't have any or why quit the WTCC and come to WRC? makes no sense.

AnttiL

3rd November 2017, 12:07

https://www.facebook.com/mwmsports/posts/691829974349942

Citroën-hopes were crushed when the team was forced to run only two factory cars in 2018 and one under PH-Sport.

Interesting...

er88

3rd November 2017, 13:29

It sounds like Meeke wasn't listened to during the testing and development phase as much as he should've been (obviously that doesn't excuse some of his crashes). Matton has already admitted they took some big risks in engineering and development (maybe things they learned from their wtcc time?), and it has now backfired (his words). Meeke has also spoken about how he wanted another experienced driver alongside him during the testing program but that didn't happen either, and it took them until Andreas came in to reinforce how undrivable the car was, before they finally made some much needed changes (changes that Meeke said he'd been pushing for since before the season started).

It's like they were being so tight with the budget and didn't want to make changes to the car until they were sure the car needed it, hence finally hiring Mikkelsen for a few rallies (despite the fact he should've been in the team over Lefebrve anyway). Or they just didn't trust Meeke at all, and if that's the case, why let him be main test driver? They should've just let Loeb do the majority of that work if they didn't have faith in what Meeke was telling them. It's hard to tell if it's complete arrogance from Matton that his way and only his way is correct (so much so he ignores drivers feedback and his own eyes), or if his hands have been tied massively with the budget and the risks taken in engineering and development were made to save money (and not necessarily to try and find that extra bit of performance).

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er88

3rd November 2017, 13:38

https://www.facebook.com/mwmsports/posts/691829974349942

Interesting...If true that's depressing. A year of that and then they'll be leaving in 2019. You have to question why they'd leave wtcc where they were dominating, and return to the WRC and piss about with this half arsed approach? This is/was the greatest team in WRC history but they have certainly tried hard since their return to look the exact opposite.

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L555MAT

3rd November 2017, 15:31

I can't make much sense of that blog tbh.

Rally Power

6th November 2017, 13:32

https://www.facebook.com/mwmsports/posts/691829974349942
"Citroën-hopes were crushed when the team was forced to run only two factory cars in 2018 and one under PH-Sport."
Interesting...

If we believe that in every rumour there’s a bit of truth, eventually this PH Sport story may not be the confirmation of Citroen’s debacle (like the Finn journo suggests) but quite the opposite.

At same point of this ‘novel’, the clash between Abu Dhabi and red Bull come out; apparently there’s a RB partial ban in the Emirates and to get the third C3 under PH Sport assistance (basically only using PHS name) could make everybody happy: Ogier and Meeke on the Citroen/RB main cars and Al Qassimi/Breen sharing the Abu Dhabi one.

Btw, a similar arrangement was done on Al Qassimi cross country runs (including the Dakar): he got a 2008 from Peugeot but it was run under a PH Sport entry.

This may sound as silly wishfully thinking, but Citroen needs Ogier and the WRC needs Citroen so, fingers crossed!

Rally Power

15th November 2017, 13:05

L’Equipe says Citroen didn’t offer enough money to Ogier but Matton has simply said the “demanded resources” weren’t fulfilled and talks have ended some days ago (Autohebdo).

Probably we’ll never know what went wrong but it’s hard to believe that money was the real issue; Citroen Racing is part of Europe’s second largest car group and they know pretty well how much it takes to win at WRC level.

Maybe Ogier was asking for too many changes in Citroen Racing structure; maybe the Red Bull/Abu Dhabi clash was impossible to fix (although it won’t prevent Al Qassimi to enter next Dakar on a last spec Peugeot); maybe Loeb’s sudden reappearance didn’t make Ogier happy; one thing is sure: Citroen missed their best change to get back to a winning path. That’s a shame.

Andre Oliveira

15th November 2017, 13:34

Citroën critical mistake was not stay with Mikkelsen.

AnttiL

15th November 2017, 13:59

Citroën critical mistake was not stay with Mikkelsen.

They chose to gamble for Ogier.

dupanton

15th November 2017, 14:19

I predict that 2018 will be the last year of Citroën in the WRC...

AL14

15th November 2017, 14:19

Citroën critical mistake was not stay with Mikkelsen.

Yes... And/Or not being almost certain to get Ogier before making him leave.

AL14

15th November 2017, 14:21

I predict that 2018 will be the last year of Citroën in the WRC...

I'm afraid of that as well.

Eli

15th November 2017, 14:26

Seems like they need a miracle to turn 2018 around.

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car

15th November 2017, 14:35

I have a feeling that they won't even contest 2018

AnttiL

15th November 2017, 14:37

I have a feeling that they won't even contest 2018

a while ago there was quit credible rumors about Citroen having in 2018 only two works cars and one customer car run by PH Sport.

Mirek

15th November 2017, 14:55

Citroën critical mistake was not stay with Mikkelsen.

They chose to gamble for Ogier.

While it's easy to judge after all those years it still has to be mentioned that the critical mistake actually happened when they let Ogier go, or better to say when they got rid of him. It's of course extremely difficult to push new young guy against the old and the-greatest-of-all-drivers-ever colleague. If I remember right Olivier Quesnel tried but in the end had to go as well. In that time I understood Citroën's stance but from today's point of view that was the point when they lost the chance to secure the continuity of their dominance. In fact now it looks rather similar to the situation in which Citroën was already before - in 2003 when the newbie Loeb had to compete with two legendary world champions in the same team - Carlos Sainz and Colin McRae.

Of course nobody can see in the future. Once they chose right, once they didn't. Anyway it's interesting story I think.

electroliquid

15th November 2017, 15:11

While it's easy to judge after all those years it still has to be mentioned that the critical mistake actually happened when they let Ogier go, or better to say when they got rid of him. It's of course extremely difficult to push new young guy against the old and the-greatest-of-all-drivers-ever colleague. If I remember right Olivier Quesnel tried but in the end had to go as well. In that time I understood Citroën's stance but from today's point of view that was the point when they lost the chance to secure the continuity of their dominance. In fact now it looks rather similar to the situation in which Citroën was already before - in 2003 when the newbie Loeb had to compete with two legendary world champions in the same team - Carlos Sainz and Colin McRae.

Of course nobody can see in the future. Once they chose right, once they didn't. Anyway it's interesting story I think.

Yes, it was their biggest mistake, but now they still making stupid decisions. Have not so good lineup and doing nothing to change that - ok, miss chance to get some rally winning drivers, but also don't have talented young guys...Only major changes can save Citroen WRT, but seems it not gonna happen.

er88

15th November 2017, 15:21

Matton gambled too much on Seb and turned his nose up (twice!!) on Andreas, who is a very good driver. In fact anyone in the wrc would be better than Lefebrve right now, but because he's French he stays? Citroen would be better off trying to offer Hyundai a good solution to take Sordo back or get Paddon, or they should go for Tidemand. All three would be better for the team as 3rd driver alongside Meeke and Breen.

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seb_sh

15th November 2017, 15:44

It's not looking good for Citroen, they will probably have the weakest line-up and the car performance is not encouraging. As others have said they might end up doing some kind of limited year in 2018, maybe even two cars only and then retire. It would be such a shame. I don't know what to think of what's going on in this team anymore.

EstWRC

15th November 2017, 16:51

and you guys got mad at times when N.O.T called them Arab Team of Nobodies....

im telling you, N.O.T is god

denkimi

15th November 2017, 17:05

It amazes me to see how they can fuck it up so bad. Last year they had 3 of the best drivers available for hire, and they got none. Now there where 2 available, and once again they got none.

If matton doesn't get fired now, they deserve no better than being dead last in the championship again.

AnttiL

15th November 2017, 17:07

a while ago there was quit credible rumors about Citroen having in 2018 only two works cars and one customer car run by PH Sport.

I'm going further with this...would it mean that Meeke drives a full season, Breen has to alternate with Loeb and Qassimi in the 2nd car while someone else drives the customer car?

macebig

15th November 2017, 17:11

Its quite puzzling to see that even now they aren't trying to get Tiedemand or Suninen, which are both cheap and talented. Matton should be shown the door.

Mirek

15th November 2017, 17:23

Tidemand and Suninen bring nothing better than Breen. What they badly need now is not another inexperienced drivers.

macebig

15th November 2017, 17:29

Maybe, but those guys are there only chance to see some better results. All their current drivers have hit their ceiling.

SubaruNorway

15th November 2017, 17:34

car

15th November 2017, 17:37

a while ago there was quit credible rumors about Citroen having in 2018 only two works cars and one customer car run by PH Sport.
Yeah, I remember that.... don’t know why I think what I do, but just get the feeling they haven’t made enough noise about 2018 to indicate they are staying. PSA as a group may be sat upon a potential emissions scandal and this will cause a withdrawal.

er88

15th November 2017, 18:06

Do you really think Mikkelsen wanted to stay in Citroen when he had the chance to go to Huyndai...? I don't think so :)Not after seeing how much he struggled with the car on gravel, but he would've signed a proper deal with Citroen early in the season, or before the season even began imo. That's when Matton should've offered him a long term deal and it was obvious at the time.

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EightGear

15th November 2017, 18:07

You really start to wonder how much time Matton has left in his job now. I don't feel like he has done anything in his years as the boss.

Rally Power

15th November 2017, 19:09

Citroën critical mistake was not stay with Mikkelsen.

What Citroen needs is a competent leading driver, able to motivate the whole team. In that sense, I don’t think Mikkelsen would make a huge difference from Meeke, besides being a more reliable driver. Ogier, with his constant winning focus and proven tech expertise would certainly push all Citroen staff members into a winning path; that’s what he did in VW and MSport.

On a hopeful note, we should remember Peugeot recent Dakar experience. Their first 2008DKR, in 2015, was a major flop, but with the help of a retired PSA tech guru (JC Vaucard) and the motivation of their leading driver (Peterhansel), they’ve managed to fix it and get a winning machine that’s still dominating the event.

Maybe Citroen new tech chief (Besse) work and a further involvement from Loeb on the C3 development can operate a similar result…fingers crossed!

ESTR

15th November 2017, 19:28

You forgot something, Citroen brings in this season quite a show. Still they have huge numbers of selling passenger C3's. And Serderidis car looks amazing. That livery rocks. All of official liveries are quite not much special this year, except Kremer's Fiesta was nice. Hyundai have better last year. And M-Sport was good looking for eyes some years ago with Castrol EDGE and Abu Dhabi. Really ugly I could say Bertelli have not taste at all.

Mirek

15th November 2017, 19:35

steve.mandzij

15th November 2017, 19:36

Nobody cares how looser's car looks.Bertelli had a nice car.

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janvanvurpa

15th November 2017, 19:52

Ogier, with his constant winning focus and proven tech expertise would certainly push all Citroen staff members into a winning path; that’s what he did in VW and MSport.

!

I will admit that I have always just looked at talk like that as some kind of hero worship but since i see it so much--and since it is nearly the exact opposite of what I have seen in my 45-50 years in another motorsport...I am compelled to ask:

What are you guys (collectively) suggesting when you guys say so-and-so driver has "tech expertise" ?

I say sure some top drivers can say clearly "what the want" the car to do, but my experience is the higher you go in results, the less the driver/rider knows or cares about the technical side......the more it becomes "I want this __________."

What do you mean or are suggesting?

Rally Power

15th November 2017, 21:04

What do you mean or are suggesting?

Trust me janvanvurpa, no hero worship, just stating what VW and MSport people said about him: he’s relentlessly working to develop the car and find the perfect set up. Being able to do it is a tech expertise by itself, no matter the degree of engineering knowledge one may, or not, have.

mknight

15th November 2017, 21:30

What Citroen needs is a competent leading driver, able to motivate the whole team. In that sense, I don’t think Mikkelsen would make a huge difference from Meeke, besides being a more reliable driver. Ogier, with his constant winning focus and proven tech expertise would certainly push all Citroen staff members into a winning path; that’s what he did in VW and MSport.

I'd say it's not very motivating to repair the car over and over again for no results with sometimes 2 crashes in same rally, so in that case even Mikkelsen would be an improvement. What's more if there were 2 winning drivers it takes the pressure off Meeke quite a bit.

About Ogier, his titles/wins with different cars also put quite a lot more weight behind any feedback/demands he has, even if he was saying exactly same things as say Lefevbre. (note: I have no idea how good he actually is at that).

15th November 2017, 21:42

I'd say it's not very motivating to repair the car over and over again for no results with sometimes 2 crashes in same rally, so in that case even Mikkelsen would be an improvement.

It’s worth remembering, without denying his issues, that Meeke was the only one to win a rally with that car (in fact 2.5 rallies)

I agree with your point that with inexperienced team mates there was perhaps too much resting on Meeke’s shoulders though.

wrc2017

15th November 2017, 21:48

er88

15th November 2017, 23:43

I'd say it's not very motivating to repair the car over and over again for no results with sometimes 2 crashes in same rally, so in that case even Mikkelsen would be an improvement. What's more if there were 2 winning drivers it takes the pressure off Meeke quite a bit.

About Ogier, his titles/wins with different cars also put quite a lot more weight behind any feedback/demands he has, even if he was saying exactly same things as say Lefevbre. (note: I have no idea how good he actually is at that).Andreas wouldn't have been an improvement over Meeke, especially aligned with Citroen's objectives this season which were purely "wins". Unless you think a man who's won only two WRC events in his whole career (while driving in a dominant VW for years), would have been able to win more events this season in that C3, than ANY other driver in the championship except Neuville?

Meeke really isn't the problem at Citroen, so im not sure why all year you've been acting like he's their biggest issue, unless you just hate him? Which in that case fair enough, there would be no point discussing this with you...

Andreas should have been replacing Lefebrve before the season started, nevermind during it. Meeke, Mikkelsen and Breen would have been a good team for this year and next.

Instead we will have a team with Lefebrve as 3rd driver, a team that is lacking a lot of finance and a team with a manager who has made bad decisions since Citroen re entered the WRC fulltime. Yet they've still won two events (and it most likely would've been 3 had the car not blown up in Corsica), and that's down to your pet hate Meeke

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mknight

16th November 2017, 06:09

I agree that it's debatable how much improvement it would be to replace Meeke with Mikkelsen. The only clear part is there would be less crashes as stated by my post.
This is why I mention what you also end up with... that Meeke and Mikkelsen would certainly be much better than what they have now. Both due to Mikkelsen's performance and the positive effects it would likely have on Meeke and car development.

--------------
Technicalities not important to the main point:

- Citroen's goal of "only event wins" first came after Corsica (by Matton) when they saw that they had no chance in championship
- "2,5" event wins by Meeke is kind of funny specially in light of Mexico last stage, clearly Neuville does not have one full win for Monte and Sweden combined
- Mikkelsen has won 3 wins so far, if you turn it around you might also say that he then beat the best driver (Ogier) in same car.

wrc2017

16th November 2017, 07:37

one of the reasons they didnt keep mikkelsen was he couldnt setup the kitchen table... and had savage tyre wear...plus he wasnt actually quick in saradina or poland.. the car made him look 1/2 good on germany.. but i know people were not happy that he got beat by a ford in germany, as they knew the car was much superior than the ford on tarmac. the only good think about mikkelsen driving the citroen is that it proved meeke was right...
and the defiencies of the the car were much greater than they realised
I agree that it's debatable how much improvement it would be to replace Meeke with Mikkelsen. The only clear part is there would be less crashes as stated by my post.
This is why I mention what you also end up with... that Meeke and Mikkelsen would certainly be much better than what they have now. Both due to Mikkelsen's performance and the positive effects it would likely have on Meeke and car development.

--------------
Technicalities not important to the main point:

- Citroen's goal of "only event wins" first came after Corsica (by Matton) when they saw that they had no chance in championship
- "2,5" event wins by Meeke is kind of funny specially in light of Mexico last stage, clearly Neuville does not have one full win for Monte and Sweden combined
- Mikkelsen has won 3 wins so far, if you turn it around you might also say that he then beat the best driver (Ogier) in same car.

Norm75

16th November 2017, 16:15

[QUOTE=mknight;1162772]

- Citroen's goal of "only event wins" first came after Corsica (by Matton) when they saw that they had no chance in championship
.[/1Z3XR6666802501515QUOTE]was actually mentioned at start of season with the aim of championships in 2018, whether this was their actual belief at that stage is another thing.

AnttiL

21st November 2017, 05:51

One thing I can confirm is that Sébastien Loeb will not be taking part in the opening round of the season.
http://int-media.citroen.com/en/final-look-2017-season

Sulland

21st November 2017, 07:06

Right now Citroen has more fundamental issues to worry about than drivers.

They have a car that there is something fundamentally wrong with.
On asphalt it is ok, and behaves normal to setup changes. On gravel it is totally unpredictable and does not respond logically to setup changes.

Because of this we have a team on the defence, Citroen is not used to be that.
they need to fix that, or 2018 is a waste.
Manufacturers title is not realistic.

What changes can they make to turn it around, or do they need to make new car for 2019, and only thread the water in 18?

Eli

21st November 2017, 07:07

MikeD

21st November 2017, 07:57

Hopefully they'll iron out those problems before PSA group pulls the plug...

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I have absolutely no doubt, that either we will see big changes in the Citroën Rally Team management or we will see Citroën leave at the end of 2018 ... if not before. Maybe even announcing that for 2018, they will only contest selected events instead of a full season, and they will not enter the Manufacturers Championship. That's my guess of the news from Citroën before christmas.

electroliquid

21st November 2017, 15:24

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/loeb-likely-to-begin-2018-wrc-return-with-mexico-981154/ don't know if it was already posted here...

KKS

21st November 2017, 15:39

EstWRC

21st November 2017, 15:58

That is great news. I really want to see him race.

Rally Power

21st November 2017, 16:25

Cross dates WRX and WRC is
1. Argentina
2. Italy
3. Turkey

and probably Australia due to jet lag. So other rally will be probably with Loeb. Mexico, Corsica, Portugal, Finland, Germany, GB, Spain - quite nice rallys for Loeb

Loeb has said dozens of times he only wants to do 2 or 3 WRC events next year. He’s now focused in winning the Dakar and then he wants to beat VW at the WRX. He’ll be pretty busy preparing the new 208 in the new structure Peugeot will probably have in rallycross.

Anyway, and like many of you have been mentioning for a long time, what makes everybody worried about Citroen’s future it’s Citroen top management choices. They weren’t able to get Ogier and they’ve let Mikkelsen go. Can we hope for a plan C?

Besides the usual 4 or 5 events Al Qassimi usually 'must' do, and the 2 or 3 Loeb can enter, there’s still room to get an experience driver in the third C3 for the remaining rally’s, helping to secure points and developing the C3. Haninnen or even Ostberg would be practical choices, as they’re available and not expensive.

If instead Citroen chiefs decide to keep Lefebvre in the third car, that would be a revealing sign of how much they’re unable to recover the team. Soon we'll know; meanwhile, fingers crossed!

ESTR

21st November 2017, 16:44

No that he want, he only can. Guys here think that rally is only 3 or 4 days, what about preparation (test days, recces, travels, fitness and so and so...). He must do the job at Peugeot for World RX and is his priority now. And if some events don't clash, what do you think he will be free like butterfly to do 9 events?? And he is older now, world rally events are tough, hard and he will not have energy for full season in World RX and almost full in WRC... No one can do that (if he will do than hats off)...

AnttiL

21st November 2017, 17:22

Besides the usual 4 or 5 events Al Qassimi usually 'must' do, and the 2 or 3 Loeb can enter, there’s still room to get an experience driver in the third C3 for the remaining rally’s, helping to secure points and developing the C3.

Rumors are it's a two car team for 2018 with third car run by PH-Sport. Meeke a full season, Breen/Loeb/Al-Qassimi in the other car?

Simmi

21st November 2017, 18:44

Really got my fingers crossed for Corsica. Although I just wonder whether it being the weekend before WRX Rd1 means he might steer clear.

Like ESTR said though, just because a WRC round doesn't clash doesn't mean he'll automatically do it.

AnttiL

21st November 2017, 18:47

Does someone still believe Loeb would do more than a couple of rallies? KKS just listed the possible events.

Rally Power

21st November 2017, 18:51

Rumors are it's a two car team for 2018 with third car run by PH-Sport. Meeke a full season, Breen/Loeb/Al-Qassimi in the other car?

Hard to believe in that rumour once Abu Dhabi/Red Bull clash won’t happen after all. Most likely the team will continue to run 3 cars; Meeke in the first, Breen in the second and Al Qassimi sharing the third with Loeb (probably for no more than 7 events).

So, will Citroen trust the 3rd C3 car to useless Lefebvre on the remaining events or will they get reasonable and call Hanninen to do it? Hanninen would be a great choice: his form has risen hugely during the season and he’s used to development work. If not Hanninen, then Ostberg; he would still be a better option than Lefebvre.

AndyRAC

21st November 2017, 19:33

I think that there are still 'issues' at Citroen; I certainly won't be putting my money anywhere near them.....

mknight

21st November 2017, 22:37

At beginning of the year they had 2 big issues:

- Drivers (one is not reliable, other is not top fast (yet) and third is neither)
- Car

Now they maybe improved the car a bit, though it still seems to struggle a bit on wet gravel, but the driver situation is back to where they started.

Btw. I really recommend reading that Australia/season review:

http://int-media.citroen.com/en/final-look-2017-season

I wonder if Matton believes this or everything is just PR. A few months ago I'd say these releases are PR only, but now I am getting the scary thought that he might actually believe he is doing well. ..... or some of his bosses do since he has not been fired yet.

WUff1

22nd November 2017, 05:24

In many other companies Matton would already have been history.

Rally Power

22nd November 2017, 11:28

In many other companies Matton would already have been history.

No doubt Matton is looking as an erratic leader, but from the outside it’s not easy to understand who’s really in charge. Matton is Citroen Racing manager but there’s also a PSA motorsport manager (J.M. Finot) coordinating all group brands motorsport activities; above them, Citroen execs and, at the top, PSA board members. Somehow Al Qassimi also has a say, because Abu Dhabi is more than a sponsor, they’re a partner in Citroen WRC campaign.

In the last press release Matton subtly mentioned that this year wins target was settled by “Citroen senior management”. From the start, he's also looking a bit lost with Loeb reappearance, being unable to give details about it; we can suspect bringing Loeb at the moment Ogier talks were starting wasn’t his idea. The only positive aspect in this big mess seems to be the new tech director choice; under Christophe Besse orientation the car is improving and we can hope they’ll totally fix it before MC. Fingers crossed!

Fast Eddie WRC

22nd November 2017, 11:31

car

22nd November 2017, 12:19

It was weird when Meeke was told to retire the car in Australia, he was clearly angry and when asked who made the decision he said 'I dont know...'

They are not going to win anything in such disarray.

Kind of get what you're saying, but they did win twice this year... I think there is a lot more to this. See Meeke's demeanour at the WRC awards? - he did not look like a happy man! I'm certain there will be an announcement, a la VW, saying global strain on the PSA group's finances means no more WRC.

Fast Eddie WRC

22nd November 2017, 13:47

Matton's admitted they couldn't match the offers Ogier had received elsewhere. Looks like Citroen are not going to be around WRC long-term if their budget is so tight.

mknight

23rd November 2017, 10:02

Could also mean that Ford comes with big money to secure Ogier.

AnttiL

23rd November 2017, 10:07

I wonder if Matton believes this or everything is just PR.

It's PR. You cannot write a press release with just negative text on it.

wrc2017

23rd November 2017, 13:09

Ogier priced himself out of Citroen ,
Hydaundi and Toyota. He undoubtly wants no1 status, which could conflict the teams current driver line up. Redbull doesnt fit with Citroen. If he is talking about retirement already he not going to be about for long term contract. if toyota or hydundai hire him, and he wins the championship... ogier won the title.. not the manufacturer.. so could be considered a negitive for manufacturer. He won the chamionship on consistency, not outright speed. You can only do that for so long, before the others get their act together. He is not the quickest guy in the championship anymore.. but top 3. he has a wife and child, and has already indicated wife wants him to stop. he has about €20m in the bank. so all in all, this is why he is left with ford or retirement.
amen.
Could also mean that Ford comes with big money to secure Ogier.

ESTR

23rd November 2017, 13:59

Looks like Hyundai, Toyota and maybe Citroen are playing their "smart" game.. I mean they don't really want him then he have no other options than M-Sport. We all know that they will not be competitive for so long (if Ford don't back them up). Then they have "smart" way of equally chances for titles for a lot less money.. Let's face it, he is most expensive in the market... And like wrc2017 said he is not fast anymore (maybe he still is), but he win in the smartest way and that's only thing that is important at the end. Nobody remembers second or third places.. Maybe other teams want to prove that they have the quickest cars and want to win with that.. I don't know

That's my theory.

Fast Eddie WRC

23rd November 2017, 15:41

Citroen stated they targeted bringing in Ogier for 2018 (and so let Mikkelesen go to Hyundai). So they didn't think he wasn't fast any more, or soon looking to retire ...

Plus Ogier had the car advantage at VW, hence why he was fastest so often then. His 2017 Season and team was a whole new ball-game.

He is smart AND fast. That's why he's the Champion.

wrc2017

23rd November 2017, 15:59

if he retires he knows its the right time.
if he goes with ford, he will not be 2018 champ.
simple

Co-driven

23rd November 2017, 18:46

Rally Power

23rd November 2017, 22:27

I heard a rumour (and you may choose to either believe or not) that the main reason behind Ogier not going to Citroen was related to Khalid Al Qassimi not wanting him in the team, because of personal reasons. This is related to that other rumour that appeared a few weeks ago about two "separate" teams.

The rumour that came out didn’t mentioned personal reasons; it was about a clash between Abu Dhabi and Red Bull. Al Qassimi family is one of the Emirates rulling families and apparently there’s a Red Bull ban in the UAE. That clash is also the reason why Khalid is entering next Dakar on a separate team (PH Sport) from Peugeot, although he’s in fact using a works 3008.

Probably we’ll never know what really happened in Ogier talks with WRC teams; Makinen, Nandan and Matton gave their own versions, but they sounds they’re not telling all.

Anyway, what really matters now is to see Ogier’s deal with MSport and Ford 100% confirmed. If so, maybe next year, by this time, Mr. Wilson will be thrilled with another title, while rival team managers will feel sorry for not having hired the 6 times champ!

AdvEvo

23rd November 2017, 22:42

I rather see Loeb doing some rally s thats always nice to watch to see that man drive!

er88

14th December 2017, 10:29

https://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2017/12/diff-erence-opinion/

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Rally Power

14th December 2017, 16:23

[QUOTE=er88;1165204]https://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2017/12/diff-erence-opinion//QUOTE]

Nice piece. Not a complete surprise as active diff issues were previously mentioned, still it’s quite puzzling to think how no one (including test drivers) realized a major fault during the 8 or 9 developing months…

Btw, speculate Loeb’s short test as a sort of turning point seems to be exaggerated; it’d make more sense to credit it on the new tech director work.

er88

15th December 2017, 06:05

Seems pretty clear to me Citroen are only going run Meeke and Breen on certain rallies, with Leferbrve in the C3 R5. 3rd car will appear on some events and be shared between the Sheikh and Loeb, depending on what events they can do.

I hope that's not the case but if so, where are Citroen actually going with this WRC program?
Budget is tight, they've shown no ambition to land a good driver alongside Meeke and Breen, or even a top young gun (probably because the likes of Tidemand etc aren't French). Maybe they are just content with running a tight budget and getting publicity through fighting for wins/ winning a handful of rallies, instead of going for both championships.

Will be interesting to see who all turns up in the PH Sport run car throughout the year.

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Rally Power

15th December 2017, 14:53

Seems pretty clear to me Citroen are only going run Meeke and Breen on certain rallies, with Leferbrve in the C3 R5. 3rd car will appear on some events and be shared between the Sheikh and Loeb, depending on what events they can do.
I hope that's not the case but if so, where are Citroen actually going with this WRC program?
Budget is tight, they've shown no ambition to land a good driver alongside Meeke and Breen, or even a top young gun (probably because the likes of Tidemand etc aren't French). Maybe they are just content with running a tight budget and getting publicity through fighting for wins/ winning a handful of rallies, instead of going for both championships.

Sadly, you’re probably right. After wasting 9 months to develop a troubled car and spending almost a full season to realize what was wrong, it seems they’re postponing title hopes to 2019, if they still exist by then...

Myrvold

20th December 2017, 12:04

Meeke all rounds. Breen 10. Loeb 3. The Sheikh a 3rd car when he wants and Lefebrve to WRC2 in C3 R5 (https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/133616/loeb-back-to-wrc-with-parttime-citroen-deal)

Tarmop

20th December 2017, 12:12

Well, that sounds like a last year in WRC with another last place in the manus.

AnttiL

20th December 2017, 12:15

Breen will stand down in Mexico, France and Spain to allow Sébastien Loeb to return in what will be a two-car line-up at most rounds. Team patron Khalid Al Qassimi will start several unspecified events in a third C3.

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/december-2017/matton-consistency/page/5087--12-12-.html

N.O.T

20th December 2017, 12:21

Trash team of arab nobodies

dupanton

20th December 2017, 12:34

Well, that sounds like a last year in WRC with another last place in the manus.

Yes, exactly my thought too. A shame for a team with such a pedigree...

focus206

20th December 2017, 12:39

Meeke all rounds. Breen 10. Loeb 3. The Sheikh a 3rd car when he wants and Lefebrve to WRC2 in C3 R5 (https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/133616/loeb-back-to-wrc-with-parttime-citroen-deal)

I almost feel sorry for Seb. I mean, nothing left to prove and he'll drive for fun, but I wouldn't want to be associated wth such a team...

mknight

20th December 2017, 12:48

Well, that sounds like a last year in WRC with another last place in the manus.

No it's much worse. In 2017 they had a theoretical chance for decent place in manus.

For 2018 with 2 "real" cars there just isn't any.

So the only hope in terms of championship is that Meeke will get consistent and the car will be competitive in slippery/changing conditions. Those two together are not exactly likely. Specially since the pressure will be on Meeke as much or even more than in 2017 (since his contract ends after 2018).

As for Loeb he is playing it extremely safe, entering the 2 rallies C3 won and 3rd one that it led before technical issues.

AL14

20th December 2017, 12:52

I hope they will end this agony and retire next year instead of keeping on surviving the championships rather than trying to win them.
I prefer less cars but decent involvement.

Andre Oliveira

20th December 2017, 12:56

Pity for Breen :( crazy people

Tarmop

20th December 2017, 12:57

Well, no. The more the better. It`should be saveable with some changes on and in the car (and team)+ new cars again in 2020. Lets hope that they can score atleast enough wins and podiums to keep their name and cars running. But like i said, probably pulling the plug.

Simmi

20th December 2017, 13:28

Disappointing but predictable from Citroen. Good job from a PR perspective though - as all the headlines are about Loeb's return, not the team downsizing.

On a personal note I'm happy Loeb is doing Corsica. Will be nice to see him, albeit it will probably swell the crowds quite a bit!

er88

20th December 2017, 13:35

Laughable that they don't even have the budget to run Loeb alongside Meeke and Breen on a measly 3events, so they have to drop Breen. This WRC return has been flawed the minute they started designing the C3, and it's been mostly bad decisions after bad decisions from the managemen since then.

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ESTR

20th December 2017, 13:54

Glad that Mikkelsen didn't go with this joke team. He would do probably 3 events or maybe 4 events...

tomhlord

20th December 2017, 14:01

Smacks of cost-cutting. I hope not. More €€ needed for R&D inc. testing. However, it could be money saved from running cars is being used to fund a brighter future. Hard to tell.

Poor Breen. Hope he can find funds for a PH or R5 ride on those missed rounds.

Clever from Loeb with event selection. Will be fascinating to see how he gets on, something to savour.

AnttiL

20th December 2017, 17:12

Good point from KiwiWRCFan

Citroen have set out clear driver plans for entire 2018 #WRC season which is a TOTAL CONTRAST to 2017 season when it was never clear who would be driving from one event to the next

https://twitter.com/KiwiWRCfan/status/943483107075751936

This year they had 10 different driver/car lineups.

pantealex

20th December 2017, 17:22

Good point from KiwiWRCFan

https://twitter.com/KiwiWRCfan/status/943483107075751936

This year they had 10 different driver/car lineups.

What did they plan year ago?
Full season for Meeke?

Duvel

20th December 2017, 17:22

Good point from KiwiWRCFan

https://twitter.com/KiwiWRCfan/status/943483107075751936

This year they had 10 different driver/car lineups.

True, as a driver (in this case Breen) i think its better to know your given program than to find out during the season. Now Breen can go and find solutions for those rally's, lets hope he can get budget for PH car.

AnttiL

20th December 2017, 17:38

What did they plan year ago?
Full season for Meeke?

I think it was planned in advance that they would do the long haul events in Mexico and Argentina with just two cars, and that the two first events would have DS3 as the third car. They had four cars in Portugal, maybe Al-Qassimi was supposed to do all his drives as a fourth car?

Norm75

20th December 2017, 17:51

Clever from Loeb with event selection. Will be fascinating to see how he gets on, something to savour.
Or shows a lack of confidence by Citroen that they can turn the car round. Would be a bit embarrassing if they provide him with a piece of shit car that sends him into hedges backwards, not good publicity.
Safer to do rounds where they know the car works ok.

jacko

20th December 2017, 18:53

This announcement makes it clear for me that Citroën is on a split (doubt) about the WRC-future. And i think they will end this year (in the end) as a full-manufacturer and continu privat with PH in 2019 with the 2018 cars.
And i believe now that's the reason there was never serious a question to hold Mikkelsen in the team because there is no future. Also i believe that's why Ogier never really was in question. Why wanted Citroën so badly him if they now showing this line-up for 2018? I think it was only for the show and public but Ogier was never a serious option and Ogier knews that and played the game for his own negotiation with Ford/M-sport.

What's Citroën doing now in 2018? Only Meeke is a contender for some wins but not for the championship, it can't be. Breen is good and fast but he has still some work to do to fight for the podium and he he's missing as it seems rounds 3 & 4. Loeb, i can't see if he will be fighting with the others although he has a good start-position for Mexico and Spain, also proven strong events for Citroën. It's super to have him (Loeb) back in the WRC but i would say Breen at least needed that second car all-season, also with that gives Citroën a dign to the rivals that they still believe in all championships with the third car in the switch between Loeb, that Al Qassimi guy and a specialist like (i know it's too late but i have to mention him to get my point) Tidemann, Hanninen or other Scandinavian fast one (and Lefebvre in MC).

But now it's not good this signal Citroën is given, a nice press-release can't fixed that, Citroën isn't obviously really invest in the WRC anymore if you look at the drivers and line-up for 2018, also in particular that there isn't a third WRC-car for Lefebvre for the first round. Rally Monte-Carlo is a typical one, a lot will happen, you need at least three cars i think in the game here and he's French wich counts and the experience here. I don't get it because the R5 is comming later on this season. The third car is available, so bring it on at least in MC would you say. But not obviously.

Still happy to have Citroën cars in the startlist but i think 2018 is the last season and 2019 with PH-sport and then it's goodbye and only R5 time.

EstWRC

20th December 2017, 19:46

Lol https://twitter.com/lindajackson/status/943542277414313985

AndyRAC

20th December 2017, 19:55

You have to be concerned that this is the last real year as a proper Manufacturer team. The question to ask is, why aren't they getting a bigger budget?

steve.mandzij

20th December 2017, 20:19

You have to be concerned that this is the last real year as a proper Manufacturer team. The question to ask is, why aren't they getting a bigger budget?2017 must have cast a huge shadow of doubt over the team's management, so surely funding is being carefully administered to avoid throwing money away again.

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EstWRC

20th December 2017, 22:08

I don’t usually post these but this looks really good https://twitter.com/rallyaustralia/status/943606477213667328

TheFlyingTuga

21st December 2017, 00:49

I don’t usually post these but this looks really good https://twitter.com/rallyaustralia/status/943606477213667328

That was made even before the real car was presented. And I do think it looks good because it has the fenders as it should be, not does horrible round things they have

Watson

21st December 2017, 04:50

What I find troubling is that they don't even hand a full season to Breen. Just put him in a third car like the Sheikh. A real lack of ambition, the team isn't even allowed to redeem itself. If you wanna get anywhere in the manufacturer's you need a third car to pick up the scraps since the two other drivers need to push and any one of them is preety likely to drop out, especially when your car has a temper like the C3 does.

21st December 2017, 05:39

N.O.T

21st December 2017, 06:11

You have to be concerned that this is the last real year as a proper Manufacturer team. The question to ask is, why aren't they getting a bigger budget?

because they are not a manufacturer they are an arab advertisement billboard with wheels

Watson

21st December 2017, 07:46

It could go either way. If Citroen have a better 2018 perhaps they will commit properly to 2019.

I am pleased to see Loeb back, but also think it’s wise not to do a full season and spoil his legacy (like for example Schumacher did in F1)

I am pretty indifferent to Loeb coming back cause at least in Mexico and Spain the road position is going to make him OP so even if he wins there is a weird aftertaste.

Also, I don't think Schumacher spoilt his legacy. That legacy cannot be spoilt. Neither can Loeb's.

pantealex

21st December 2017, 09:46

Interesting fact from Jarno Saari in Twitter:

"A driver with zero WRC wins has never done full WRC season."

AnttiL

21st December 2017, 09:57

Interesting fact from Jarno Saari in Twitter:

"A driver with zero WRC wins has never done full WRC season."

Eric Camilli 2016? Ott Tänak 2016 and 2015?

Ah, understood wrong. He's referring to Breen, having no wins and no full seasons, who should be happy with 10 events. I still disagree. He's never going to learn Mexico or Spain if he doesn't go there. And doing less events than last year.

Watson

21st December 2017, 10:10

I hope they'll at least provide an R5 for Breen in those events.

EstWRC

21st December 2017, 13:47

Breen: Citroen's C3 WRC car becoming 'more compliant' ahead of 2018

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/133634/citroen-becoming-more-compliant
https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/citroens-c3-wrc-becoming-more-compliant/

Fast Eddie WRC

21st December 2017, 15:27

Nope, I dont get this Citroen 2018 line-up decision at all.

Just having a two-car team is ridiculous if they are serious about trying to win either title.

Dropping Breen for a couple of rounds to bring in Loeb makes no sense either. Smacks of desperation or a PR stunt as Simmi said.

Also still no info on the driver of the PH-run C3 ... can this be the effective 3rd car ? I dont see it.

I see another last place for Citroen in 2018 and a sad exit.

pantealex

21st December 2017, 16:19

I think that PH_C3WRC is event by event rental car so we will only know for 1 event in time, sometimes not before entries are out.

Kind of like that teams maybe keep also other info for that "AutoShow" presentation than just their liveries.

er88

21st December 2017, 17:26

It really annoys me if they can't get Breen in the PH Sport car for those 3 events that Loeb will do. Surely that has to be possible, and then they can sell the seat to the highest bidder on the other 10 rounds.

As for that article above about the C3 becoming more compliant, it's just a Citroen PR puff piece fed to the news outlets to deflect (along with the Loeb return news) from them scaling back on their wrc program and the negativity around the team . They also have a PH Sport seat to sell for 13 rounds, so do you expect a young driver under contract to come out and say the car is still violent and unpredictable? I won't be believing a word of it until we see how Meeke and Breen can do in the first two events (Which went horribly wrong this year). Meeke's words would probably carry more weight than Breens at this stage too, but he's been quiet so far.

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Rally Power

21st December 2017, 18:05

Laughable that they don't even have the budget to run Loeb alongside Meeke and Breen on a measly 3events, so they have to drop Breen.

Spot on! For sure it’s better to have Citroen this way than not having it at all; still the need to run Loeb on Breen’s car is beyond comprehension. Loeb is a sponsor magnet; if they tried a little bit certainly they would found some new sponsors to pay for those 3 extra events. Sadly, like many are saying, it looks they’re preparing to pull out at the end of 2018; we can only hope that Loeb's appearances and a first class Meeke can help them to continue after next season...fingers (and toes) crossed!

Rally Power

21st December 2017, 18:27

You have to be concerned that this is the last real year as a proper Manufacturer team. The question to ask is, why aren't they getting a bigger budget?

Apparently, Opel/VX buy is becoming a nightmare…https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/european-business/psa-wants-nearly-half-of-opel-purchase-price-back-from-gm-over-carbon-emissions/article37123508/

Btw, despite all the dark clouds over Citroen WRC long term future, I believe they’ll continue to improve the car and eventually fix it during next weeks.

ESTR

21st December 2017, 19:08

Is it possible that Citroen have year to year strict budget. And when Meeke destroys cars on many occasions they spend more than provided so they would cut a lot for 2018...

Mirek

21st December 2017, 19:45

Is it possible that Citroen have year to year strict budget. And when Meeke destroys cars on many occasions they spend more than provided so they would cut a lot for 2018...

IMHO There is no sense in any half-arsed effort because that is simply bound to fail. You either go for it and give it what it needs or you don't do it at all.

AnttiL

22nd December 2017, 05:35

https://rallysportmag.com/lefebvre-taking-positives-r5-assignment/

Lefebvre stays positive.

It's interesting to see how his and the C3's pace matches the others in WRC2

22nd December 2017, 09:14

https://rallysportmag.com/lefebvre-taking-positives-r5-assignment/

Lefebvre stays positive.

It's interesting to see how his and the C3's pace matches the others in WRC2

As i've said before I think he was moved into the World Rally Car too quickly, and he's still young so I hope this move can reboot his career.

EstWRC

22nd December 2017, 11:32

Breens words are promising and im hoping that the car is now sorted out, it will be better for everyone if the competition is even tighter in 2018!

and maybe they will show more often their rear lights for everyone

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRmUJAAW0AEAP8a.jpg

Rally Power

22nd December 2017, 13:05

Is it possible that Citroen have year to year strict budget.

For sure manus must have proper budgets and fight for the titles, still it’s hard to understand why rally fans would prefer having another manu leaving the series than keeping it around, even with short winning chances.

Despite all the (self inflicted) issues of their ‘17 season and a deep budget cut for ‘18, Citroen will still be there competing and providing us the chance to see a different WRC car on the series, with Meeke and Breen at the wheel, besides making possible Loeb’s return to the sport; for all that we should praise them and hope their efforts to continue in the WRC will succeed.

Mirek

22nd December 2017, 15:07

For sure manus must have proper budgets and fight for the titles, still it’s hard to understand why rally fans would prefer having another manu leaving the series than keeping it around, even with short winning chances.

I don't think that anyone of us would like them leaving but the other thing is to see the futility of their effort. One simply has to ask why the hell do they do that? Why do they keep humiliating themselves?

Rally Power

22nd December 2017, 16:28

I don't think that anyone of us would like them leaving but the other thing is to see the futility of their effort. One simply has to ask why the hell do they do that? Why do they keep humiliating themselves?

Unless your crystal ball has already revealed you 2018 results, you can’t say they’re humiliating themselves for trying again, even if on a tight budget, as nothing would be more humiliating than pull out after this year flop.

Citroen tech staff is having the chance to prove they can fix the C3 and certainly they’ll try their best; if they succeed and Meeke manages to adopt a sensible driving (far from Kamikaze mode), wins will happen, probably often than expected.

In the past few years many expressed here their doubts on MSport ability to be a top WRC team; against most odds they’re now WRC champs. That’s how life is: ups and downs all along the way.