Prodrive Mini WRC

[Mirek]

SWRT was believed to be running on about 50-55 million euros at that time.

That's more than Ford and Citroen have been running on recently. The past isn't always rosy....

Plus there was reasonable inflation...

[Barreis]

Industrialist from Turkey Ercan Kazaz came in 2000 on Croatia delta rally with exMcRae's impreza wrc. I asked him how much was the rent for the rally (about 250km of SS) and he told me 60 000 DM (that's now 30 000&#8364 ;) .

[bluuford]

Plus there was reasonable inflation...

Fuel 95 cost in 1996 approximately 0.3 EUR in Estonia, now it is approximately 1.3 EUR
......
other prices (excluding mobile and internet costs) have changed to similar way :-)

[JAM]

The 90's, 30-40 000 euros for a top level car in good conditions for a WRC event? For a Subaru 555 Gr.A? Are you joking?

I'm not joking. In 1995/1996 a WRC event with a Grp A Impreza had that costs (depending the team).

Since 1997 with the WRC's the prices started go to the sky. The group A cars had reasonably prices until 1995/96.

This is just an example, but in 1997 MSport sold a Escort WRC to a portuguese team by 200.000-220.000 Euros. That deal was made in February and that unit had done only the Safari Rally with Armin Schwarz. Two years later a Corolla WRC came to Portugal and its value (with electronic diffs) was near 400.000 Euros.

[JAM]

Industrialist from Turkey Ercan Kazaz came in 2000 on Croatia delta rally with exMcRae's impreza wrc. I asked him how much was the rent for the rally (about 250km of SS) and he told me 60 000 DM (that's now 30 000&#8364 ;) .

That was 3/4 years later than the group A Impreza's. A WRC event had about 400-450km of SS, and that car with that team in a WRC event would have costed about 50.000 Euros. If was a ex-Mcrae car, than was a Prodrive car, not a Procar Impreza that was cheaper.

[Plan9]

Could not disagree more!

The Mini is a nice road car, also are all the versions that come with it and the WRC apart from the great monster-WRC look did also attract a lot of attention to the sport. It's a big shame they dont find the funding they need! It's a pitty this sport can only be ran by manufactures teams (and ford still is one IMHO).

Verstuurd van mijn ARCHOS 80G9 met Tapatalk

Agreed! I think MINI is the perfect brand for WRC. Real shame about what happened.

[danon]

Ain't no such thing as a perfect brand.
A perfect fund sounds more like it.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

I think the problem with Mini is that the idea of getting the marque back into the WRC was stronger than the reality of it.

For instance, I saw this in my home town a few days ago, a Fiat Ritmo (I think it's sold elsewhere as a Fiat Bravo):

http://images.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2008/02/11/11FiatRitmo_m_m.jpg

And I thought to myself "Hey, that would make a great little rally car! I wonder if Fiat would be interested?" (whether or not they actually would be interested is not the point, so please, bear with me for now). But I don't think that happened with Mini. I think someone thought to themselves "Hey, could we get Mini back into rallying? And if so, which car could we use?", which to my mind is doing things in the wrong order.

I think the Countryman was the wrong car for Mini to use. Like the Suzuki SX4 before it, it simply looks too big to be a rally car (although its not as bad as the SX4). I think it was the wrong car to use, and I'm not sure if there was ever a right car to use. I can't help but think that the decision to get Mini back into the WRC was made for the wrong reasons - for sentimentality, rather than because the car was good for competition.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Mentos will do 2013 season excluding Monte with S2000 MINI JCW car! Prodrive is supporting their cars fully for their campaign.

Dynamic is also sponsoring Polish driver. Uncertain if S2000 MINI or WRC

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Dynamic is a brand of Lotos - Michal Koscziscko has raced under the team name "Lotos Dynamic Racing" in the past - so that's probably the Lotos Team WRC.

[Plan9]

Mentos will do 2013 season excluding Monte with S2000 MINI JCW car! Prodrive is supporting their cars fully for their campaign.

Dynamic is also sponsoring Polish driver. Uncertain if S2000 MINI or WRC

Koscziscko is doing Monte Carlo in a WRC spec Mini (not sure if it will be 01A or 01B), but it used to be a Motorsport Italia car. I have no idea what other events he is doing after that.

Does anyone know what Sandell and the Sweden team are doing? They were fun for the 2 events they did in 2012...

[Plan9]

I think the problem with Mini is that the idea of getting the marque back into the WRC was stronger than the reality of it.

For instance, I saw this in my home town a few days ago, a Fiat Ritmo (I think it's sold elsewhere as a Fiat Bravo):

http://images.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2008/02/11/11FiatRitmo_m_m.jpg

And I thought to myself "Hey, that would make a great little rally car! I wonder if Fiat would be interested?" (whether or not they actually would be interested is not the point, so please, bear with me for now). But I don't think that happened with Mini. I think someone thought to themselves "Hey, could we get Mini back into rallying? And if so, which car could we use?", which to my mind is doing things in the wrong order.

I think the Countryman was the wrong car for Mini to use. Like the Suzuki SX4 before it, it simply looks too big to be a rally car (although its not as bad as the SX4). I think it was the wrong car to use, and I'm not sure if there was ever a right car to use. I can't help but think that the decision to get Mini back into the WRC was made for the wrong reasons - for sentimentality, rather than because the car was good for competition.

I understand what you are saying. I think the Countryman was the best car for BMW to use, the other Mini Cooper was too small apparently (well according to DR). Don't forget Prodrive ran some M3's in the late 1980s-early 1990s so BMW-Prodrive is a relationship with some history.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Perhaps it was the best car for them to use, but the decision to get Mini involved in the first place felt like a decision that was made for the wrong reasons.

[JAM]

Prodrive is supporting their cars fully for their campaign.


Prodrive already supported WRC Team Mini Portugal (aka Motorsport Itália) during all the 2012 season.

The Mentos team is the Motorpsort Itália sructure. Bruno found another guy with money to burn...

[alleskids]

Team Mentos and Team Lotos are both run by Motorsport Italia? so they have minimum 3 cars in 2013 (2x S2000 and 1x WRCar)

[rallyfiend]

Team Mentos and Team Lotos are both run by Motorsport Italia? so they have minimum 3 cars in 2013 (2x S2000 and 1x WRCar)

I think they had a total of 5 Mini's.

[Ezhik]

As I know, Mentos team will run their MINIs by themself, not by MI and they will get full support from Prodrive.

[Frostmourne]

I think what Prodrive has done with the car development was really good, and Dani's Sordo times in last season at some stages says the car got the potential to compete with the rest. Now, alot says here in this forum, that some members of Prodrive WRC team mechs and engineeers left for VW. I hope Prodrive still got some good individuals with the team that can further develope the car into a tier 1 car, like citroen and ford.

[Barreis]

Last rally of the season proved that car has tarmac potential in the hands of top driver.

[Bartolbia84]

does anyone know the program that will run the Mini rally team RCC Ascania Mentos?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Mentos MINI's are supported by Prodrive

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Prodrive have sold their stake in V8 Supercars team Ford Performance Racing:

FPR saved from oblivion in shock sale - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/01/04/fpr-saved-from-oblivion-in-shock-sale/)

[Frostmourne]

Prodrive have sold their stake in V8 Supercars team Ford Performance Racing:

FPR saved from oblivion in shock sale - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/01/04/fpr-saved-from-oblivion-in-shock-sale/)


Will DR pump some cash from that sale into Prodrive WRC program?? on another note, why not DR buy Mini from BMW same as he did for Aston Martin when bought from Ford :)

[Plan9]

Shocked to see Prodrive sell their stake in FPR.

I think BMW would not sell MINI as it still does quite well financially. Aston Martin was quite different I understand and Ford really was looking to cut costs wherever they could.

[MikeD]

The Mentos Mentos Acania Racing team will be run by Prodrive.

prodrive (http://www.prodrive.com/p_releases.html?id=366)l (http://www.crash.net/world+rally/news/187097/1/mini_squad_reveals_wrc2_plans.html)

[GigiGalliNo1]

That's what I said from the beginning

[navtheace]

Artist impression of what the Mini Paceman could look like in world rally car mode

MINI JCW Paceman WRC 2013! | RallyLife.cz (http://www.rallylife.cz/mini-jcw-paceman-wrc-2013)

It will be interesting to see if it comes about, as the Paceman has the potential to become an R3T car (as Paceman is available in FWD and 4WD), R4 car (if the FIA allow 1.6 turbo 4wd cars in for this class whilst they phase out 2 litre turbo 4wd), and obviously R5 with the body kitting.

R3T
R4
R5

[danon]

Total what... :D

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/2029/minitotal0.jpg

[stefanvv]

We don't know yet :D

[Plan9]

Funny they have a picture of the range rover; that is doing dakar this year

[AndyRAC]

The Paceman looks a lot better than the Countryman - however, unless BMW are back on board I can't see it come to light.

[GigiGalliNo1]

It's the same car.

Countryman and Paceman. One has four doors the other has two.

[Frostmourne]

so, Jarkko Nikara for Sweden, I think he is the best of the leftovers, probably with Tanak. However I doubt any Podiums for Mini this year.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Polish WRC MINI is backed by MotorsportItalia

Pictured here http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/11/esevunud.jpg

Mentos MINI's backed by Prodrive

[TyPat107]

Danny let the cat out of the bag, Prodrive is going rallycrossingPhoto by dannyway • Instagram (http://instagram.com/p/V6s6FrnT8m/)

[Frostmourne]

Danny let the cat out of the bag, Prodrive is going rallycrossingPhoto by dannyway • Instagram (http://instagram.com/p/V6s6FrnT8m/)

I really hope they wont abandon WRC after switching to rallycross!!

[rallyfiend]

I really hope they wont abandon WRC after switching to rallycross!!

I wouldn't confuse 'someone buying a car to use in rallycross' with 'Prodrive going rallycross'.

Hell, they'd let someone buy the car to go do the shopping on a Saturday morning.

[Plan9]

And just think they have this contract with the Mini for another few years yet...

[rallyfiend]

Apparently there's only around 6 people left in Prodrive working on the Mini WRC car project.

I'd say she's about as dead as she's going to get....

[MJW]

Apparently there's only around 6 people left in Prodrive working on the Mini WRC car project.

I'd say she's about as dead as she's going to get....
I thought someone else left this week, VW bound...now less than 6 on the rallyside of Prodrive :-(

[Jordib]

I thought someone else left this week, VW bound...now less than 6 on the rallyside of Prodrive :-(

Less than 6 persons for all rally projects? including S2000/RRC versions? we now that was expected but that sounds really worst. Shame.

What about evolution of all Minis WRC and RRC sold around the world? :(

[GigiGalliNo1]

There still is a team there and they are also working on other cars for other motorsports. Shifts within Prodrive once one sport/car is not worthy of working on

[WUff1]

Hasn´t Vaclav Pech´s Mini been at Prodrive in autumn/winter 2012?

[AndyRAC]

There still is a team there and they are also working on other cars for other motorsports. Shifts within Prodrive once one sport/car is not worthy of working on


I wouldn't worry about Prodrive, they have their finger in all kinds of Motorsport/ motor trade pies. Saying that, Sebring didn't go too well.

[Mirek]

Hasn´t Vaclav Pech´s Mini been at Prodrive in autumn/winter 2012?

Yes, it was but he was very angry with Prodrive not fulfilling any dates.

[sete]

Yes, it was but he was very angry with Prodrive not fulfilling any dates.

could he switch to a different car during the season?

[Mirek]

I don't think so. Invelt is paying the bills and they are BMW/Mini dealer.

[Sulland]

Apparently there's only around 6 people left in Prodrive working on the Mini WRC car project.

I'd say she's about as dead as she's going to get....

Tragic really, don't think it would have cost BMW to much to keep it going.

But would personally have gone for a 1 series Coupe instead. They would have sold bucketloads of R5 1 series!!!

[sete]

I don't think so. Invelt is paying the bills and they are BMW/Mini dealer.

is deal between Invelt and Prodrive finishing at the end of this year(season)?i think it was 2 year deal(plan) right?
the car was crappy last year and it doesnt seems it will be better this season if rumours about cancelling rally activities in Prodrive are true. :-(

[Mirek]

I don't know what deal You are talking about. In my understanding the car is property of Invelt (Jírovec) and if he wants to get rid of it he must find a buyer - or he can put it on display :)

[sete]

sorry my fault - i mean the deal between Invelt and Vaclav Pech.

[Frostmourne]

Really shame, the car showed some potential. Ok, BMW, left Prodrive in the begnning of the road, but what I dont understand why Prodrive is not pumping some money into the project, I am sure they have the cash! Prodrive is killing their project by their own hands!

[Motorsportfun]

Really shame, the car showed some potential. Ok, BMW, left Prodrive in the begnning of the road, but what I dont understand why Prodrive is not pumping some money into the project, I am sure they have the cash! Prodrive is killing their project by their own hands!

Easy: if there's no any sponsor, they'll not risk any own money... full stop and go on a new chapter! Shenbao?

[Frostmourne]

Are there any official or semi official news about Prodrive plans for this season or the next?!?!

[Barreis]

New engine homologated at 1.1.2013.

[arko5]

Kosciuszko will be have new engine in Portugal

[stefanvv]

New engine homologated at 1.1.2013.

Prodrive developed, or still BMW?

[dimviii]

Kosciuszko will be have new engine in Portugal

+8 bhp for wrc,and +5 bhp for rrc

[Barreis]

Prodrive developed, or still BMW?

It says Prodrive but who knows.

[WUff1]

From German rallye-magazin.de:

Prodrive spendiert Leistungskur*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/04/05/prodrive-spendiert-leistungskur/index.html)

So engine should be by Prodrive and is also available in a S2000-version to customers.

[noel157]

With Nikara entered in NORF does anybody know what Mini cars are in private hands? Presume Prodrive will still hire/sell one (no doubt a lot less than last year..) and what happened the Portugal/Rally Italia cars? Who owned Kosciusko's car or was that hired from Prodrive?
I know there are 2 cars in Ireland, any more?

[Mintexmemory]

With Nikara entered in NORF does anybody know what Mini cars are in private hands? Presume Prodrive will still hire/sell one (no doubt a lot less than last year..) and what happened the Portugal/Rally Italia cars? Who owned Kosciusko's car or was that hired from Prodrive?
I know there are 2 cars in Ireland, any more?

The Kos car was an Italia owned item, hence the communication from Kos to Araujo - Now I know how you feel!!

[Mirek]

Two in First Motorsport, one in Invelt Czech Republic.

[vino_93]

One in Team FJ, one for José Barbara, another for Philippe Taffoneau in France.

Two for Toksport in Turkey too.

You can find a lot here : eWRC-results.com - Rally cars history (http://www.ewrc-results.com/cars.php?cid=14&title=Mini-Cooper-WRC-/-S1-6T)

[mousti]

2 for Ascania Mentos Racing. Also 1 for Luis Monzon. I think those 3 are owned and not rented?

Caserano Racing in Italy

Grifone

Twister Corse???

[Kielder]

You're right, Monzon's car is owned. It is this one:

http://www.motoradiario.com/images/stories/minimonzonmayo13.jpg

[Plan9]

Inessa Tushkanova has footage on her FB page of a JCW driving round what looks like a car park (I have no idea who is actually driving it). Is there anything more to this? Sorry I could not repost the link.

[tolis]

Maybe it was Gennadiy Broslavskiy in Masters Show in Russia?

[sindroms]

1 for "Adapta Motorsports".
At least in ERC "Liepāja-Ventspils" Raimonds Kisiels rented it from them.

[Barreis]

Prodrive Mini returns to WRC for Finland with Jarkko Nikara - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108548)

[Frostmourne]

Any news about Prodrive agenda? are they willing to participate more actively probably as a WRC team/manufacturer? or they will just rent their cars for privateers? and what about the status of the car?

[Barreis]

01C version is on so we'll see can Nikara finish in the top 5.

[Mirek]

Any news about Prodrive agenda? are they willing to participate more actively probably as a WRC team/manufacturer? or they will just rent their cars for privateers? and what about the status of the car?

Somobody wrote here there were only 6 people left in Prodrive working on rally activities. Also all recce cars were sold already some time a go. I don't think they will do anything more than what they are doing now...

[noel157]

Sadly would agree.They probably had to go and look for the car in some corner of a workshop when Nikara'a call came through. Could've all been so different. Shame.

[Plan9]

Does anyone know if Prodrive is looking for anther partner? Would it be realistic to think that when the period of homologation ends for this MINI; that will be the end of MINI in the WRC for good?

[Barreis]

Private-works tuners are going down in last few years. Prodrive and M-sport lost their contracts. Hyundai and VW came with their own department.

[AndyRAC]

Private-works tuners are going down in last few years. Prodrive and M-sport lost their contracts. Hyundai and VW came with their own department.

However, both Prodrive & now M-Sport have gained contracts in racing; Prodrive running numerous Aston-Martin programmes - and now M-Sport are building and running the new Bentley GT3 racer - more money in racing!!

[Barreis]

Private-works tuners are going down in last few years. Prodrive and M-sport lost their contracts. Hyundai and VW came with their own department.
Forgot to write in WRC.

[Plan9]

Well Liam Doran hope to do a full GRC season next year with a "works" MINI. I am getting this from his post race interview at the Munich round.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Prodrive built that, and have a few tech guys for it too but it's not a full MINI/BMW support... Still Monster are the main money suppliers

[navtheace]

Private-works tuners are going down in last few years. Prodrive and M-sport lost their contracts. Hyundai and VW came with their own department.

That is because the days of private teams being able to self build a near works car have been impossible since GpA and GpN have been phased out.

Remember the GpA days where you had many private teams that were highly respected and built cars very close to the works ones, and also maintained ex works cars owned by wealthy privateers.

[Frostmourne]

Does anyone know if Prodrive is looking for anther partner? Would it be realistic to think that when the period of homologation ends for this MINI; that will be the end of MINI in the WRC for good?

Speaking of homologation, isn't this year supposed to be the last for the cuurent homologation regulations? I remember a news saying there will be no new homologation for the next year to cut the costs, anyone knows when the new cars will come?

[Mirek]

That is because the days of private teams being able to self build a near works car have been impossible since GpA and GpN have been phased out.

Remember the GpA days where you had many private teams that were highly respected and built cars very close to the works ones, and also maintained ex works cars owned by wealthy privateers.

That's nonsense. Prodrive, M-Sport, MML, MSD developed full WRC cars in times when those were the most hi-tech in rallying history. Other teams were participating on building cars according to factory spec - such as Bozian, Racing Lions, JUKA etc.

Also S2000 were developed by many private teams, not only factory ones. Besides M-Sport and Prodrive it was MEM, TRD, RGRS, MSD who developed S2000 cars. Other teams were building S2000 cars for factory teams such as PH Sport, Barroso, JUKA, Racing Lions etc...

[Sulland]

That's nonsense. Prodrive, M-Sport, MML, MSD developed full WRC cars in times when those were the most hi-tech in rallying history. Other teams were participating on building cars according to factory spec - such as Bozian, Racing Lions, JUKA etc.

Also S2000 were developed by many private teams, not only factory ones. Besides M-Sport and Prodrive it was MEM, TRD, RGRS, MSD who developed S2000 cars. Other teams were building S2000 cars for factory teams such as PH Sport, Barroso, JUKA, Racing Lions etc...

Yes, but still the rules are that the manufacturer need to agree for it to be homologated. So without a deal, no use to start the job. Especially if you compete with the factory, they will block I guess.

[Mirek]

That's true but it has always been like that. I can tell You a story of such privately developed car buried by factory homologation refusal in 1984...

[Leon]

That's true but it has always been like that. I can tell You a story of such privately developed car buried by factory homologation refusal in 1984...

please share with us

[Mirek]

This car I know is Škoda 160RS MTX Gr.B10 car (am I right that B10 was for under 1600 ccm?). The car was developed by company Metalex and Agroteam Slušovice in 1983. It was based on Škoda Garde car but it was using space tube frame, improved Lada VFTS engine, Škoda 130RS or Tatra 603 gearbox, custom build suspension and steering based on autocross buggies. The car did several events in 1984 as a zero car and usually it was faster than all other cars (we had no gr.B12 cars until 1985). I'm too young to know all the story behind but Škoda refused to help with homologation and instead pushed for their own 130LR gr.B9 model. It's true that their car later proved to be very successful despite having only 1300 ccm engine.

Photo of original car (3 were built): http://www.rallylife.cz/data/imgs/0024475l.jpg
See-through view from old magazine: http://skoda.panda.cz/fotografie/specialy/0089.jpg

[Barreis]

That is because the days of private teams being able to self build a near works car have been impossible since GpA and GpN have been phased out.

Remember the GpA days where you had many private teams that were highly respected and built cars very close to the works ones, and also maintained ex works cars owned by wealthy privateers.

Good old days. There were really good Italian tuners around...

[navtheace]

That's nonsense. Prodrive, M-Sport, MML, MSD developed full WRC cars in times when those were the most hi-tech in rallying history. Other teams were participating on building cars according to factory spec - such as Bozian, Racing Lions, JUKA etc.

I wasn't aware of that, how did the likes of Bozian, Racing Lions etc build a world rally car from a road car shell?

[Mirek]

It wasn't built from a road car shell in case of WRC cars. They used the floor pan, than welded the rollcage and only after that built the shell around - without anything of no use and with thinner steel I think. At least I believe it was like that. In times of high demand for Fabia S2000 I believe Juka Motosport was actually doing this job for Škoda Motorsport (Barroso did same for Peugeot I think).

[navtheace]

I am not talking about appointed motorsport companies with a contract for the manufacturer.

I mean private/independent companies that were able to self build GpA and GpN cars to a very close specification to a works version entirely by themselves. As in they cannot do that with WRC/RRC/S2000/R5