Prodrive Mini WRC

[N.O.T]

of course he was all that...

but the teams nowadays care more about about money than they did in the past....so the Mcrae attitude will not get a driver very far today, that is what i am trying to say.

[Barreis]

Colin McRae was my hero.

[tfp]

Bull again from NOT

You are not fit too even speak Colins name.....

He is a legend and probably the most exciting driver ever

Part of rallying died forever with Colin!!!!!!!!

:up: +1

[tfp]

Bull again from NOT

You are not fit too even speak Colins name.....

He is a legend and probably the most exciting driver ever

Part of rallying died forever with Colin!!!!!!!!

:up: +2 That deserves another

[tfp]

Colin McRae was my hero.

Same here, I was just ten years old when he won the championship, he got me interested rallying!
I wonder if he would have sordos seat in the mini? Imagine Meeke and mcrae in one team?! Lots of wins, lots of tow trucks if they diddn't win, a forest fire or two, and constant entertainment, what ever happenned!

[N.O.T]

Imagine Meeke and mcrae in one team?! Lots of wins, lots of tow trucks if they diddn't win, a forest fire or two, and constant entertainment, what ever happenned!

Colin was not able to win a citroen...so i doubt he was gonna do it with a mini...

Being romantic works with Girls...with rallying results are a bit strange...

Colin was retired before he caused that horrible accident.

Heros and monsters are made for little kids...you should grow up and accept some things.

[sollitt]

Bull again from NOT

You are not fit too even speak Colins name.....

He is a legend and probably the most exciting driver ever

Part of rallying died forever with Colin!!!!!!!!

Emotive claptrap.

Yes Colin was exciting and I too was a big fan, but most exciting ever? People who watched Ari, Markku or Henri might not think so.

Part of rallying died with Colin? Really? What part?

If you consider his career as NOT does, unemotively, he is just one of a long line of drivers but whose results failed to reach expectations due to a propensity for tossing his car off the island. His one title was gifted to him and his major claim to fame was a kid's video game for which, according to some, the sport owes him a huge debt of gratitude.

In today's financial landscape it's doubtful Mini would have tolerated his rate of write-offs, a worthy consideration for Meeke to ponder.

[m.lowe]

Yall get a bit prickly when any says anything about Kris, I think for this forum anything said has been very mild, there are a lot of people who wish him well, just some are more blinkered than others.

I agree

Bit like when I say about Wilson on the Irish forum

Its rallying for gods sake enjoy no matter who is sitting in what car, not performing or whether father allegedly pays the rides or throws it off each event

[Plan9]

Interestingly in the recent GPWeek there is a story about how Mini/BMW are jointly developing the engine for Rally and Touring Cars. They have a single engine block used in both series and they incrementally develop the part for the purposes of reliability alone. The scary thing is that the Prodrive engineers have a long list of developments that they want to homoligate and they must choose only a few of them due to FIA rules. while Citroen remakes their engines as they see fit.

@Mini/Meeke/Sordo detractors: Mini will be glorious and will be on the pace very quickly next year. Guaranteed. Prodrive is not M-Sport and has won many rallies while competing on other series (consider BAR in F1, BTCC Fords, Le Mans). They are there to win not to be tourists.

[Allyc85]

Dont you start with that tourists b.s. ;0 :laugh:

It was a very impressive effort from Mini considering the car was the same as in Germany. They said back in Finland that they needed a better engine, so they must have been giving away a few tenths on every long, uphill section.

[306 Cosworth]

Dont you start with that tourists b.s. ;0 :laugh:

It was a very impressive effort from Mini considering the car was the same as in Germany. They said back in Finland that they needed a better engine, so they must have been giving away a few tenths on every long, uphill section.

Plus the Mini/Team is running to 100% yet. They're still holding things back. Our presenter for out TV shows Paul was talking to David Lapworth at the Richard Burns Memorial Rally back in August and he was saying that the car isn't running to its full potential yet.

[Barreis]

Today saw a test in evo uk magazine and it says that price is 450 000 gbp plus tax. They said s2000 will be cheaper and 1.6 turbo is only kit. That's very expensive.

[RobertS]

Same here, I was just ten years old when he won the championship, he got me interested rallying!
Can you remember for the details of the 1995 season?
Carlos Sainz had a mountain-bike accident - with serious injury - in the middle of the season.
He could not start in New-Zealand(maybe in Australia too?, I can not remember) 2x0 points for Carlos.....no comment

[Gregor-y]

Emotive claptrap.
I think in terms of time and location it may have more emotional impact for some people. Colin was the first British champion,the mid 90s were for many people a pretty optimistic time and while his driving style was a bit reckless (or wreck-full) he put in good stage times and looked very impressive doing it. Age can play a big role in defining your best memories of rally, too.

I always wondered if Nicky Grist ever had anything to say about Colin's driving, having also worked with Kankkunen. Given that he's a professional co-driver I wouldn't think he would say anything particularly negative, but it would be interesting to know his impressions. Derek Ringer's been in the US for a few years now helping Subaru of America drivers but I've never had the chance to talk with him at length.

[Nornbugger]

Can you remember for the details of the 1995 season?
Carlos Sainz had a mountain-bike accident - with serious injury - in the middle of the season.
He could not start in New-Zealand(maybe in Australia too?, I can not remember) 2x0 points for Carlos.....no comment


to be fair to McRae in the last events of the season he did deliver, still it wasnt a classic season, but McRae certainly did deserve to have a title to his name

[tfp]

Can you remember for the details of the 1995 season?
Carlos Sainz had a mountain-bike accident - with serious injury - in the middle of the season.
He could not start in New-Zealand(maybe in Australia too?, I can not remember) 2x0 points for Carlos.....no comment

Too bad for him ;) I'm sure Mcrae had two no-score rounds that year aswel. Ok, so they may have been through his own fault, but, then again, who is to blame for the mountain bike accident?
I had one my self earlier this year, and it was my own stupid fault, I felt such an idiot I wanted to kick my own a**e!
Not to take anything away from Sainz, I still call him King Carlos, after all :)
Er, but this is getting waaay off topic!

[Barreis]

C.McRae forever.

[Zico]

I know it's early days yet for the Mini programme, but may I say how delighted I am to have had my instincts be proved wrong, and to see that the car is a competitive contender?

I got it wrong too.. Really happy to be proved wrong though. :)

[RobertS]

to be fair to McRae in the last events of the season he did deliver
Yes.
After, when Sainz had 2x 0-point rallyes - New Zealand + Australia ;)


still it wasnt a classic season
Why ?
Sorry, I do not undersatand you here...



I'm sure Mcrae had two no-score rounds that year aswel. Ok, so they may have been through his own fault
1995 - 2x retirements for McRae:

Monte-Carlo -'own fault'
juwra.com**|**Rallies - Rallye Monte Carlo 1995 final results (http://www.juwra.com/monte_carlo_1995_results.html)
" retired accident "

1995 Sweden
It does not matter(Sainz vs McRae), ALL work's Subarus retired - with 'stupid' engine problem
juwra.com**|**Rallies - Swedish Rally 1995 final results (http://www.juwra.com/sweden_1995_results.html)



but, then again, who is to blame for the mountain bike accident?
Irrelevant, there is no nothing about - 'who is to blame for'

It was pure luck for McRae.
It was not a forced retirement in a battle for the win. McRae's rival did not start in New-Zealand, on a rallye, where Sainz was very strong traditionally. 4x wins with different cars and many podium finish....
Do not forget - in 1995 there were 8 rallyes only!

In Australia Sainz retired with engine on ss.9.(maybe some similarities with Loeb's in France now?)

If I give a 4th finish for Sainz in '95 NZ - which is a large detraction of his capabilities in 1995 with the Subaru - mathematics >

juwra.com**|**Season 1995 - Championship standings (http://www.juwra.com/season_1995_points.html)

+ a healthy engine for Carlos too in Australia ???
Kind of totally hopeless situation for McRae even with a win in Spain...

Sorry...
I call McRae for a very lucky champion in 1995.



Er, but this is getting waaay off topic!
Yes.
And please forgive me, I like 'what if's' ;)

[RobertS]

I think, this 2x 0-point rallyes for Sainz - engine fault in AUS surely - were major factors in David Richard's decision in Spain in '95. Kind of fair-play...

And I can imagine Subaru team-tactics after New-Zealand, if Sainz could start and finish there anyhow :s mokin:

pre New-Zealand:

Sainz - 50p.
McRae - 20p.

[noel157]

Hi Noel, could you correct Kris please, seems he thinks that it was an over optimistic note that caused the crash.

I incorrectly thought he had recced all events last year, seems strange to me that he didnt, its not competing but it still helps to build knowledge.

Yall get a bit prickly when any says anything about Kris, I think for this forum anything said has been very mild, there are a lot of people who wish him well, just some are more blinkered than others.

Nobody gets "prickly" about Meeke here and most of us are not blinkered. There were a few over the years who repeatedly said, and I quote, "Meeke will never get a drive", "Meeke doesn't deserve a seat" etc, etc. Then all the nonsense about the Mini programme being rubbish, the car is too tall, Prodrive couldn't build or run a car that could survive a 5 km drive to the local supermarket and back on a Saturday morning. Next we had the rubbish about the short suspension travel etc, etc. Anybody who's been here will have read all that c-rap. The best one was somebody's brother who saw the car in Prodrive and instantly knew that it would be a complete failure.....
Sure, Meeke had his problems in JWRC, his speed and raw talent was never an issue and most saw that but he obviously did have accidents when he really should have been on the podium. Ok, many good drivers have their accidents but many confuse DNF statistics and automatically assume poor driving no matter the cause of the DNF and this seems to added to Meeke's reputation, deserved or otherwise.
As for his WRC career, as I said earlier, two drives over 6 years is hardly much experience. With Mini he's had 4 DNFs out of 4 starts. Looks bad doesn't it? Except 3 were mechanical and of course the off in Alsace. With that off it happened as I described, first pass he felt he lost time, 2nd pass the different approach was wrong. Most drivers modify a note when they feel it was not appropriate on the first pass, not rocket science. The crew are hardly going to make a mental note to approach a particular corner a few hours and 30kms later.............
Meeke got his seat with Prodrive the hard way, no money, no sugar daddy, no big backers. He's there because DR wants him there. For what he can do behind the wheel and his engineering/development ability, an unusual combination these days. So give the guy a chance to prove himself, I believe he will earn the respect of many more fans in due course.

[Nornbugger]

Nobody gets "prickly" about Meeke here and most of us are not blinkered. There were a few over the years who repeatedly said, and I quote, "Meeke will never get a drive", "Meeke doesn't deserve a seat" etc, etc. Then all the nonsense about the Mini programme being rubbish, the car is too tall, Prodrive couldn't build or run a car that could survive a 5 km drive to the local supermarket and back on a Saturday morning. Next we had the rubbish about the short suspension travel etc, etc. Anybody who's been here will have read all that c-rap. The best one was somebody's brother who saw the car in Prodrive and instantly knew that it would be a complete failure.....
Sure, Meeke had his problems in JWRC, his speed and raw talent was never an issue and most saw that but he obviously did have accidents when he really should have been on the podium. Ok, many good drivers have their accidents but many confuse DNF statistics and automatically assume poor driving no matter the cause of the DNF and this seems to added to Meeke's reputation, deserved or otherwise.
As for his WRC career, as I said earlier, two drives over 6 years is hardly much experience. With Mini he's had 4 DNFs out of 4 starts. Looks bad doesn't it? Except 3 were mechanical and of course the off in Alsace. With that off it happened as I described, first pass he felt he lost time, 2nd pass the different approach was wrong. Most drivers modify a note when they feel it was not appropriate on the first pass, not rocket science. The crew are hardly going to make a mental note to approach a particular corner a few hours and 30kms later.............
Meeke got his seat with Prodrive the hard way, no money, no sugar daddy, no big backers. He's there because DR wants him there. For what he can do behind the wheel and his engineering/development ability, an unusual combination these days. So give the guy a chance to prove himself, I believe he will earn the respect of many more fans in due course.

this is why I have been a Meeke fan since way before it was cool to be, I still am. Sardinia and Finland were true car problems in my mind, he was off in Germany and lucky only to collect grapes, he had 2 spins I believe before his off in Alsace, certainly on one of them he was lucky to get away with it. He himself has blamed note distances for a couple of errors, this at this level seems odd to me, corner speeds are subjective and part of the art, distances are an absolute.

Re the Mini haters, theres a lot of top engineers on here in their dreams, my concern for the Mini that I never posted before now was that I think marketing men rather than engineers made the decision on which version to use and possibly created a compromise from the off. This possibly is bs, just a little thought I had :D

[Tomi]

Emotive claptrap.

Yes Colin was exciting and I too was a big fan, but most exciting ever? People who watched Ari, Markku or Henri might not think so.

Part of rallying died with Colin? Really? What part?

Agree, he is the most over rated driver ever, the Beckham of rally, much noise but little substance, the really great drivers are in their own class.

[AndyRAC]

Over rated?? You don't win 25 WRC events if you're no good..

[N.O.T]

there is a difference between "no good" and overated.....

He was a great driver (great enough to become champion) but not something really special like Loeb, Kannkunen even Makinen and Gronholm.

[Doon]

Must say I have to agree. He was a brilliant driver, and the most popular worldwide mainly due to his computer game, but he there was never a time when no one could touch him. Since i've watched rallying Makinen had a period...well most of the late 90's where he was untouchable, Gronholm was in 2000 and especially 2002, Loeb was from 2005 until this season. Colin always tried hard, maybe too hard, and thats not because he wanted to entertain a few fans but because his competition was usually better.

I think it's similar with Solberg, he's got character and won a single world championship......and the most important factor was that he was in a Subaru, therefore everyone loves him and thinks he's the best ever.

Burns for me was a different situation, he was consistant and gathered points to win (...bit of a Hirvonen) but I always thought he was quicker than Mcrae anyway. Just because he got less wins it didn't make him a slower driver, as he came close to winning the WRC more times than Mcrae.

Can't believe I've joined in with this rant anyway, it's a little pointless. Oh well that's what lunch breaks are for!

[dimviii]

Prodrive couldn't build or run a car that could survive a 5 km drive to the local supermarket and back on a Saturday morning. Next we had the rubbish about the short suspension travel etc.
while i agree at most you said,don t be in a hurry to say the mini is good.Its too early to see if it fast or reliable.About the suspension how do you know that the travel is enough? FRom inside Ohlins i have listen very different.

[noel157]

while i agree at most you said,don t be in a hurry to say the mini is good.Its too early to see if it fast or reliable.About the suspension how do you know that the travel is enough? FRom inside Ohlins i have listen very different.

I'm not sure exactly what you are saying? The car is not good? The car is clearly good in terms of what it has managed to achieve over 4 events in it's development period which it has just begun. Is it a great car? Time will tell, who knows but we can only go from what we've seen so far. There's certainly a lot more to come over the next 12 months. I don't know if the suspension arrangement will continue in it's existing form or how the team are thinking about changing it but so far seems to be ok, but that's only my view.
Yes, reliability is an issue but it's not a big issue considering and the faults so far have been very minor.

[focus206]

sorry, I couldn't resist:
World Rally Championship - News - Michelin’s safety campaign gets MINI support (http://www.wrc.com/news/michelins-safety-campaign-gets-mini-support/?fid=15549)
the image makes me laugh :D

[Gregor-y]

Nobody gets "prickly" about Meeke here and most of us are not blinkered. There were a few over the years who repeatedly said, and I quote, "Meeke will never get a drive", "Meeke doesn't deserve a seat" etc, etc. Then all the nonsense about the Mini programme being rubbish, the car is too tall, Prodrive couldn't build or run a car that could survive a 5 km drive to the local supermarket and back on a Saturday morning. Next we had the rubbish about the short suspension travel etc, etc. Anybody who's been here will have read all that c-rap.
Meeke had an excellent run in the IRC so I can't see why anyone would begrudge him at least a trial in a WR car. However, after the hash Prodrive made of Subaru's cars from 2006 on and with what looked like a hands off attitude from BMW it was hardly rash to speculate the MINI wasn't going to be all that good. I'm happy to see Prodrive looks to have gotten the MINI right and think Meeke's a good choice to campaign it. Aside from the British(German) car/British(Irish) driver emotional aspect, I'm sure as a new entry his contract was pretty reasonable. I don't think we can judge Meeke too much until we see what the MINI can do next year.

[janvanvurpa]

while i agree at most you said,don t be in a hurry to say the mini is good.Its too early to see if it fast or reliable.About the suspension how do you know that the travel is enough? FRom inside Ohlins i have listen very different.

It does look like shorter travel.... do you know how much travel MINI has on both surfaces?
How does that compare to the others, cause it looks like they are limited by wheelarch size to way less travel.
So, tell us. (we won't tell anybody else...)

[dimviii]

It does look like shorter travel.... do you know how much travel MINI has on both surfaces?
How does that compare to the others, cause it looks like they are limited by wheelarch size to way less travel.
So, tell us. (we won't tell anybody else...)

I don t know numbers to tell you.But the problem exists(gravel)

[noel157]

Meeke and Sordo in France:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjFG22tYIgo

[noel157]

11 mins of Meeke and Sordo from Rally Germany. Interesting to see the two different driving styles:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjFG22tYIgo

Sam chopping is a bender he likes boys

Sam chopping has had sex with andrew from rsf

sam chopping has sex with colin from rsf

MY NAME IS Gay boy SAM CHOPPING

Sam chopping like boys bums

Sam chopping had sex with sam from rsf

[noel157]

Sam chopping had sex with sam from rsf

Get a life.

[N.O.T]

why you quote spammers ???

[Langdale Forest]

why you quote spammers ???

why you question people who quote spammers ???

[N.O.T]

because all you do is bringing those stupid posts to surface for no reason....you are not going to get a reply.

[Mirek]

Onboard of Václav Pech with Mini S2000 from his yesterdays first start (finished 3rd overall behind Odložilík and Valoušek with Xsara and Fabia WRC).

Vše o Rally CZ, AutoCrossu, RallyCrossu, Kartingu • MediaSport.cz (http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/onboardy/1771.html)

[Sulland]

That's interesting. Why did Mini choose to make a ST rather than a pure S2000 or RRC? Is there a cost benefit? I am surpirsed that they didn't make a lower spec Countryman as well.

Not quite sure what you mean by a ST, but since S2000 with NA engine is being killed off by FIA, Prodrive had little choice but to make a 1600T based car for class 1. If you call the class 1 car RRC or SP (super production) does not really matter. FIA has not given the class a name as far as I know, apart from S2000 1,6T or something. Imo RRC is the best name to date for a class 1 car.

[Plan9]

Not quite sure what you mean by a ST, but since S2000 with NA engine is being killed off by FIA, Prodrive had little choice but to make a 1600T based car for class 1. If you call the class 1 car RRC or SP (super production) does not really matter. FIA has not given the class a name as far as I know, apart from S2000 1,6T or something. Imo RRC is the best name to date for a class 1 car.
I understand now. Thanks for that!

[noel157]

why you quote spammers ???

Sorry NOT, I mistakenly (I think) assumed the post was from you........ :)

[Plan9]

Does anyone have access to the interview Kris Meeke gave before the Mini's debut where he explains the difference between the S2000 & WRC specification cars? It was very interesting however I am unable to find it online. Any help is appreciated.

[Mirek]

I don't have the interview but if You need the differences between S2000 1.6T and WRC...

Technical rules:

1. Lighter flywheel
2. Plastic rear side and rear window
3. Water-cooled asphalt brakes
4. Large wing
5. Front bumper

Competition rules:

In regional events S2000 1.6T have smaller restrictor (30 mm instead of 33 mm). In WRC events it is same for both.

[Plan9]

Does anyone have new on new title sponsors for Mini. I though something was meant to be announced after Spain????

[AndyRAC]

Does anyone have new on new title sponsors for Mini. I though something was meant to be announced after Spain????

It's gone quiet hasn't it?
Slightly worrying – the car is quick, and not fully developed. I wonder if that was the reason by the tyre choice for the Power stage on Sunday? Another reminder to potential sponsors…a tactic used in pre-season testing by F1 teams.

[Plan9]

It's gone quiet hasn't it?
Slightly worrying – the car is quick, and not fully developed. I wonder if that was the reason by the tyre choice for the Power stage on Sunday? Another reminder to potential sponsors…a tactic used in pre-season testing by F1 teams.

The last I heard about a title sponsor was in April this year. Scary indeed. The rumor was that Vodafone of Santander was going to be title sponsor. I think if you search online you can see an artists rendering of the potential Vodafone livery. I am starting to worry myself; especailly as Citroen seems to be on the brink of doing a deal with the Qatar government in the same way Ford has Abu Dhabi. That may push Citroen out of reach all together (budget wise).

[TheFlyingTuga]

What I've heard it's that if Mini doesn't support Prodrive next year, Prodrive isn't going to run the official cars! And that could indeed happen, cause until now there's no confirmation if there will be any support from BMW/Mini for 2012!

BAd news :(

[Plan9]

I think the agreement between Prodrive & BMW is for the partnership to last for a few years yet. I think that main question in that regard is how much more money will BMW pump into this thing now they have DTM?

I was hoping for some BMW branding to appear on the JCW at some point but it doesn't seem likely.

[AndyRAC]

I know when the made their debut appearance in Sardinia in May, I’d read that would be the only event to run in the ‘classic’ red livery. From Finland they would have a new sponsor & colours. Obviously not – however, if anybody can get sponsorship, DR can.
I wasn’t expecting any BMW branding – Rallying doesn’t really fit their ‘ethos’ – and none of their Premium rivals are the WRC. Which is why the DTM is so important.

There is a question that needs to be asked however, and I’m sure most of us know the answer, in regards to sponsorship.

[Plan9]

I know when the made their debut appearance in Sardinia in May, I’d read that would be the only event to run in the ‘classic’ red livery. From Finland they would have a new sponsor & colours. Obviously not – however, if anybody can get sponsorship, DR can.
I wasn’t expecting any BMW branding – Rallying doesn’t really fit their ‘ethos’ – and none of their Premium rivals are the WRC. Which is why the DTM is so important.

There is a question that needs to be asked however, and I’m sure most of us know the answer, in regards to sponsorship.

True but then the last BMW F1 car had MINI branding on it. Yes I know Cooper had a team but its not so relevant today. Won't the M Division or Alpine be offering a tuned edition of the Countryman? I know prodive is.

There is a question that needs to be asked however, and I’m sure most of us know the answer, in regards to sponsorship.
I would be interested to hear what you thought that answer might be. This topic seems to be dead now; yet another worrying sign!

[OldF]

Prodrive to take over the preparation and development of the MINI engine.

GP Week (http://mag.gpweek.com/) (page 48)

[Lundgaard]

Prodrive to take over the preparation and development of the MINI engine.

GP Week (http://mag.gpweek.com/) (page 48)


I can't decide weather that is good or bad news. Did Prodrive develop the engine in the Subaru? That was a strong engine. And also. For the first year of the project everybody talket about what a great engine the Mini would get because of BMW and it turns out that is actually the weak point of the car..

[AndyRAC]

It's a tough one - BMW are known for their excellent engines - however a Rally engine is different from a race engine. But it's further possible proof that we know were BMW's priorities lie - with the DTM!
Just hope Prodrive can work their magic on the engine - MINI need to hit the ground running in 2012.

[gtimad73]

doesn't sound good. Maybe bmw will just let prodrive run the hole show bit like ford do with msport

[dimviii]

depents from the height of the extra budget bmw is going to offer to prodrive.

[Plan9]

In a previous GP Week Prodrive claimed that BMW got the most out of its partnership with them as rally inspired developments could be used on the touring car program but its was not possible to bring touring car technology into the JCW WRC.

I think until we see a MASSIVE sponsorship package on the car we (that actually like Mini) will have concerns about Prodrive's ability to pay for further homologation and development of parts.

[makinen_fan]

GP Week (http://mag.gpweek.com/)

Mini is to use own engines from next year than BMW prepared engines

[bluuford]

Do not worry, everything will be OK with their financing for 2012.

[ridder]

I can't decide weather that is good or bad news. Did Prodrive develop the engine in the Subaru? That was a strong engine....

I thought the engine was from Japan? - STI

[noel157]

Do not worry, everything will be OK with their financing for 2012.

Exactly.

[Barreis]

I thought the engine was from Japan? - STI

True.

[Motorsportfun]

What about the proposal of David Richards to Peter van Merksteijn? Looks like DR offered Meeke's drive for a massive sponsorship...

[tfp]

What about the proposal of David Richards to Peter van Merksteijn? Looks like DR offered Meeke's drive for a massive sponsorship...
??? Sacrafice speed for money??

[Allyc85]

What about the proposal of David Richards to Peter van Merksteijn? Looks like DR offered Meeke's drive for a massive sponsorship...

I really cant see that unless the team is really struggling for money! Do you have a decent source?

[Barreis]

Waitin' for Meeke's performance in Wales.

[alleskids]

What about the proposal of David Richards to Peter van Merksteijn? Looks like DR offered Meeke's drive for a massive sponsorship...

were did you read the news about this sponsorship/factory drive offer?

[AndyRAC]

What about the proposal of David Richards to Peter van Merksteijn? Looks like DR offered Meeke's drive for a massive sponsorship...

Surely not!!! If true then they're in a bad way......( & the WRC isn't on the road to recovery as we hoped) I can't see that - utter madness....

[Motorsportfun]

It was on Italian weekly Autosprint... so a much reliable source. It says also that Richards failed a negotiation with one of the world's big high-technology multinationals (IMHO something like Samsung)

[AndyRAC]

It was on Italian weekly Autosprint... so a much reliable source. It says also that Richards failed a negotiation with one of the world's big high-technology multinationals (IMHO something like Samsung)

If anybody is capable of pulling off a sponsorship coup, then it's DR. However, it's still blatantly obvious - the WRC still isn't delivering returns for potential investors, sponsors, etc

[Plan9]

F***K that is a scary thought about Peter Jr. He is a nice guy but I don't think this is possible. Meeke has a 3+ year deal and it will cost to cut him out. It would be possible for Sordo as he only has a 1 year deal. Nothing has been signed for next year.

Where would van Merksteijn get the money anyway?

If this is true Meeke will probably have to win in Wales to save his anus from this has-been lists

[Motorsportfun]

Where would van Merksteijn get the money anyway?

From here:

http://www.van-merksteijn.nl/Static/Images/UserUpload/pand.jpg

Van Merksteijn International | About Van Merksteijn | (http://www.van-merksteijn.nl/index.php?TreeID=129)

[N.O.T]

Where would van Merksteijn get the money anyway?



Van Merksteijn International | Home | (http://www.van-merksteijn.nl/index.php?TreeID=2)

steel...

you cannot go wrong with raw materials these days...

[Plan9]

From here:

http://www.van-merksteijn.nl/Static/Images/UserUpload/pand.jpg

Van Merksteijn International | About Van Merksteijn | (http://www.van-merksteijn.nl/index.php?TreeID=129)

Sweet Jesus. That's very impressive. Why hasn't somebody given this family something like Khalid has @ M-sport?

[focus117]

Sordo definitely deserves a drive, I think Ford would benefit a lot if they would hire him :)

Somehow I doubt David Richards would let Sordo go, not after this season anyway.

[wildsir]

Van Merkstein was offered a drive as a privateer, with cross sponsorship of WRC team. Sordo and Meeke are going no where.

[gravelman]

Van Merkstein was offered a drive as a privateer, with cross sponsorship of WRC team. Sordo and Meeke are going no where.

Oh thank god for that. Kris and Paul have worked too long and hard for tis for it to go up the wall this quickly. To think ot ling ago the British journalists were all backing wilks and his funding drive for a Subaru contract, while meek had nothing. A few drives in the south of Ireland in a s1600 Clio funded by locals reawakened the world to his talents and he was in the irc the next January. I really hope it works out forthe boys as they are the breath of fresh air the wrc so badly needed and the speed is there, and there is no doubt that the results will come.

[Plan9]

Oh thank god for that. Kris and Paul have worked too long and hard for tis for it to go up the wall this quickly. To think ot ling ago the British journalists were all backing wilks and his funding drive for a Subaru contract, while meek had nothing. A few drives in the south of Ireland in a s1600 Clio funded by locals reawakened the world to his talents and he was in the irc the next January. I really hope it works out forthe boys as they are the breath of fresh air the wrc so badly needed and the speed is there, and there is no doubt that the results will come.

There is something in what you say. This article shows that he could be the next Petter Solbergs in terms of his laddish charisma.
Check it out:
MaxRally | Features | My first car: Kris Meeke (http://www.maxrally.com/features/entry/my_first_car_kris_meeke/)

[mousti]

Van Merkstein was offered a drive as a privateer, with cross sponsorship of WRC team. Sordo and Meeke are going no where.
That was I thinking anyways, don't think it's their to go in the Works team but have more of a own team (having a manafacture entry like Ferm..) like "Van Merksteijn Mini" team what's also a bit of a extra sponsorship for them.. . But that they have also sponsoring the Works cars a bit too and that would be great.

[noel157]

On-board with Sordo at Walter's Arena in RGB test:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKm2XkTkc8s

[wwbroe]

Doesn't look so bad if you ask me. :D

While racing it is a good Idea to wear Cotton Head Socks (https://sprayfoamgear.com/Head_Socks.html). They :) are comfortable washable and inexpensive.

[N.O.T]

ban

bye...

[GigiGalliNo1]

One would hope the video above of Walter's Arena is what the WRC 2 Game is like?!?!?! :D :D :D :D

[bennizw]

Should be like don´t you mean? The game looks nothing like Rally GB.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Should be like don´t you mean? The game looks nothing like Rally GB.

No I mean in the FUTURE... the game people can take this footage and would see what they should make it be like! Ah, anyways. Great WRC test from the MINI guys.

[Plan9]

As a matter of fact the Mini is actually quite a good car to use in WRC2. The Fiesta is lame. The DS3 is quite good as well mind you.

[AndyRAC]

https://www.facebook.com/notes/rally-wrc-and-irc/mini-world-rally-team-may-miss-championship-rallies-in-2012/170464523046135

[wwbroe]

https://www.facebook.com/notes/rally-wrc-and-irc/mini-world-rally-team-may-miss-championship-rallies-in-2012/170464523046135

That doesn't sound all that good, is it?

[Plan9]

Well if that happens I may not need to attend Rally NZ after all.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Boo!!!! Do NZ!! The only data the team got was from BrazilWRT in Rally Aus!

[Plan9]

I'll do NZ if the factory team comes. Or I get a seat in the BWRT for the event. I wonder which will come first =p

[noel157]

It was on Italian weekly Autosprint... so a much reliable source. It says also that Richards failed a negotiation with one of the world's big high-technology multinationals (IMHO something like Samsung)

Bosch on board, small way at the moment but could get bigger:

Getting ready for Gt Orme:

https://p.twimg.com/Ad5FrYgCQAA4a-t.jpg

[Plan9]

I like how they have continued the checkered patter to incorporate the sponsor. Very unique approach!!!

[Jordib]

According to sources near Sordo, Prodrive have noticed him that there is no continuity for the Mini project, as BMW cancelled their funding for 2012.

Tests for Montecarlo and Sweden are cancelled (as known) and they are only talking about a maximum of 5 rallies for next year with the actual budget.

Sordo's father are in contact with other teams for next year as Dani wants a full campaign for 2012.

If it becomes true will be a big shame for rallying and a ridiculous situation for a big macnufacturer like BMW. We are not used to this unseriously approach to projects from a big one like this.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Great news!

NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[6789]

That is extremely disappointing for Prodrive, Meeke and Sordo! Could we see Sordo with a number 2 on the side door again?

[gtimad73]

Is this bmw canceling the rally project?? Or just putting it back a year??? Does any body know.

[Mirek]

According to sources near Sordo, Prodrive have noticed him that there is no continuity for the Mini project, as BMW cancelled their funding for 2012.

Tests for Montecarlo and Sweden are cancelled (as known) and they are only talking about a maximum of 5 rallies for next year with the actual budget.

Sordo's father are in contact with other teams for next year as Dani wants a full campaign for 2012.

If it becomes true will be a big shame for rallying and a ridiculous situation for a big macnufacturer like BMW. We are not used to this unseriously approach to projects from a big one like this.

I believe BMW never promised Prodrive anything more than to fund the development and that they did.

[Andre Oliveira]

Mini steht weiter hinter WRC*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2011/11/11/mini-steht-weiter-hinter-wrc/index.html)


Mini Motorsport director Dirk Hollweg:



Can you confirm that your team enrolls for the entire World Cup 2012?
"Definitely we will go ahead and enroll us. We have an agreement with Prodrive for the entire season with two cars. As I said, the only thing we need now is a sponsor."

[Barreis]

And a top driver for wins.

[sete]

Sordo is a top driver on asfalt

[wildsir]

And a top driver for wins.
Like Ford

[gtimad73]

Mini steht weiter hinter WRC*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2011/11/11/mini-steht-weiter-hinter-wrc/index.html)


Mini Motorsport director Dirk Hollweg:



Can you confirm that your team enrolls for the entire World Cup 2012?
"Definitely we will go ahead and enroll us. We have an agreement with Prodrive for the entire season with two cars. As I said, the only thing we need now is a sponsor."

after reading that things seem a bit more positive??

[Plan9]

Meeke & Sordo have been showing improvement lately. They will be fine next year!

[dimviii]

after reading that things seem a bit more positive??

No,they are saying the same thing,with different words.Seems a serious problem for minis existance at wrc....

[gtimad73]

No,they are saying the same thing,with different words.Seems a serious problem for minis existance at wrc....

What i meant was Bmw havent pulled the plug on the program. there just letting prodrive run the show. but they have to find sponsors to fund it. Im sure at some point they will get the sponsorship that they need to continue there a big brand. But i agree they have problems if they cant get a sponsor

[Mirek]

What i meant was Bmw havent pulled the plug on the program. there just letting prodrive run the show.

That was planned since the beginning.

[gtimad73]

Quote from 37. Dani Sordo (ESP) / Carlos Del Barrio (ESP) - MINI John Cooper Works
Really nice season with MINI. We've had good results in 6 rallies. This car worked treally well, maybe needing more development. Unless something dramatic happens I'll be with MINI next year. I like the people, the team and I like the car.

[Jordib]

That was planned since the beginning.

Agree, but for me this is a mistake from Mini/BMW.

It's dangerous to make a big announcement on the press and motor shows around the world about a Mini return to WRC and full campaign for 2012 without the budget or warrantys to do that.

They should not put all his 'faith' in DR ability to find big sponsors for a program like this as if the things go wrong with that this can be a very bad for Mini/BMW reputation and PS. And they promised engine development from BMW and finally this has been cancelled, so i think this was not planned from the beginning.

I really hope that finally they can find a big sponsor and continue the project, but for me it's not the best way to start projects, and less for a big manufacturer.

We have to think that most of the public doesn't know that this is a Prodrive project with only support from Mini/BMW... so if the project is cancelled people will criticize the manufacturer, not Prodrive.

[dimviii]

Agree, but for me this is a mistake from Mini/BMW.

It's dangerous to make a big announcement on the press and motor shows around the world about a Mini return to WRC and full campaign for 2012 without the budget or warrantys to do that.

They should not put all his 'faith' in DR ability to find big sponsors for a program like this as if the things go wrong with that this can be a very bad for Mini/BMW reputation and PS. And they promised engine development from BMW and finally this has been cancelled, so i think this was not planned from the beginning.

I really hope that finally they can find a big sponsor and continue the project, but for me it's not the best way to start projects, and less for a big manufacturer.

We have to think that most of the public doesn't know that this is a Prodrive project with only support from Mini/BMW... so if the project is cancelled people will criticize the manufacturer, not Prodrive.

very well said.Agree.

[Mirek]

I would not go into details as we haven't seen whole agreement but otherwise I fully agree that it's dangerous game for the public picture of BMW/Mini brands.

[Barreis]

Let we all hope that they'll continue.

[BDunnell]

They should not put all his 'faith' in DR ability to find big sponsors for a program like this as if the things go wrong with that this can be a very bad for Mini/BMW reputation and PS.

Not to mention an unnecessary slur on Prodrive — if it happens, of course.

[bluuford]

I would not go into details as we haven't seen whole agreement but otherwise I fully agree that it's dangerous game for the public picture of BMW/Mini brands.

Well, there are two sides. They have thrown the towel and all possible sponsors have seen what the Mini car is capable of. So, it is kind of free commercial and now they have some time to search the sponsors and if they are not successful, then they can pressure Mini/BMW to invest little bit more to do the whole season (not to damage their reputation). It is kind of good pressure, as long as BMW gets positive TV time etc. it is good and theyarehappy. When Prodrive asks them if they want to continue that good show or risk with damaged reputation, then the decision might be very much biased to the positive direction for Prodrive I must say.

[Sulland]

Must say I am impressed with what Mini has achieved in 2011. Espesially on asphalt they are up there, but it was easy to see today in Wales that they have to short suspension in tough gravelroads, and that some of the beating for Meeke must have really hurt. So imo his speed today is even more impressive due to that.

[Plan9]

I'm looking forward to seeing its speed in Sweden. I hope they will be able to test for it because if they don't it will be difficult. I think that the customers will be financing a fair bit of Prodrives budget next year. Does BWRT and Motorsport Italia get testing opportunities?
Are there any more customers in the pipeline?
On GB 2011: I think that Meeke and Mini showed that they can be competitive on all surfaces.

[noel157]

The March 1st 2012 homologation upgrades should give the car the extra 1/2 sec / km that they need. If all goes well a win next season could well be possible.

[cali]

The March 1st 2012 homologation upgrades should give the car the extra 1/2 sec / km that they need. If all goes well a win next season could well be possible.

1. 0,5 sec is a figure on paper, reality could be different
2. Don't you think that other teams will also develop their car further?

I like Mini and would like to see them win at least one rally next year, but reality has proven itself to be more different than the simple figures on paper. I wish it all would be so easy :)

[noel157]

1. 0,5 sec is a figure on paper, reality could be different
2. Don't you think that other teams will also develop their car further?

I like Mini and would like to see them win at least one rally next year, but reality has proven itself to be more different than the simple figures on paper. I wish it all would be so easy :)

It's not a figure on paper, it's reality.
Of course other teams will improve but Mini are starting from a clean sheet and therefore incrementals of improvement will be greater than Citroen or Ford.

[cali]

It's not a figure on paper, it's reality.
Of course other teams will improve but Mini are starting from a clean sheet and therefore incrementals of improvement will be greater than Citroen or Ford.

Well, not sure for the first part but hopefully Mini will improve more to see them fight for the wins and maybe the championship as well :)

[Allyc85]

The March 1st 2012 homologation upgrades should give the car the extra 1/2 sec / km that they need. If all goes well a win next season could well be possible.

I hope that includes a big engine upgrade as from where we were on Myherin the car looked so slow up the long hill compared to the Ford and Citreons :(

[Sulland]

What do you know of suspension travel length on Ford, Citroen and Mini? How much less travel does the mini have?

[dimviii]

It's not a figure on paper, it's reality.
Of course other teams will improve but Mini are starting from a clean sheet and therefore incrementals of improvement will be greater than Citroen or Ford.

Where did you see the 0,5sec/km.Because i see an average 1 sec/km.Rally cars don t win rallies at drawing tables.They win at stages.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Apparently MINI will be doing ALL of 2012... Someone tweeted.. Looking for link

[Doon]

I hope that includes a big engine upgrade as from where we were on Myherin the car looked so slow up the long hill compared to the Ford and Citreons :(

Any chance this was at marshal point 13? Thats where I was and they looked slow, but Meeke said he had an engine problem and was less powerful than usual on that stage.

[noel157]

Where did you see the 0,5sec/km.Because i see an average 1 sec/km.Rally cars don t win rallies at drawing tables.They win at stages.

Look at the stages on the 6 events that Mini have entered where Meeke in particular is comfortable (with the surface and the stage) and the car is healthy and you'll see that 1/2 a sec would make all the difference. At the moment and as could be seen in Wales the car is marginally slow/under-powered but not so slow/under-powered that on occasion the car can't achieve competitive times as it has done many times recently.

[Allyc85]

Any chance this was at marshal point 13? Thats where I was and they looked slow, but Meeke said he had an engine problem and was less powerful than usual on that stage.

This was between junctions 17 and 18 :)

We did think that Kris's car didnt sound right, but also that the others looked slow too.

[Motorsportfun]

Apparently MINI will be doing ALL of 2012... Someone tweeted.. Looking for link

That's interesting. Just hope that will be soon confirmed!

[Mintexmemory]

This was between junctions 17 and 18 :)

We did think that Kris's car didnt sound right, but also that the others looked slow too.

Kris had an engine mounting broken so had to watch out for the vibration during Saturday 1st loop. Dani was not totally on it but got his mojo back on Sunday and the others were driven by Araujo, Oliveira and Nobre - 'nuff said! ;)

[dimviii]

Look at the stages on the 6 events that Mini have entered where Meeke in particular is comfortable (with the surface and the stage) and the car is healthy and you'll see that 1/2 a sec would make all the difference. At the moment and as could be seen in Wales the car is marginally slow/under-powered but not so slow/under-powered that on occasion the car can't achieve competitive times as it has done many times recently.
Μιni was slower on most stages at Wales even from client drivers with Fiesta .I measure the diff and was about 1 sec/km(0,7-1,3sec/km).There is no 0,5 sec/km.
That you said about the bold is not right.Because others are developing their cars too.Mini in Wales was slower than other gravel rallies was competing.
Mini in Italy, was way faster than Wales.Till now we haven t see progress from Mini.

[bluuford]

Apparently MINI will be doing ALL of 2012... Someone tweeted.. Looking for link

Look at the GP week page nr 47 head of Mini motorsport confirms it. www.GPweek.com | F1 | WRC | MotoGP | GP | Grand prix | Formula One | News | Motorsport | Magazine | F1 Images | F1 Photos | F1 Pictures | Racing | Motor Racing | (http://www.gpweek.com)

[dimviii]

Look at the GP week page nr 47 head of Mini motorsport confirms it.

He confirms that '' we have an agreement with Prodrive to run 2 cars for the whole season'' ;)
Also watch what he says about the engine...'' it is better to run(Prodrive) the engine development further,so you can balance your money better''

Its clear that bmw-mini doesn t want to spent further money at this project.
Prodrive must find sponsor if they want to compete.Thats what i understant from Mr Dirk Hollberg.

[bluuford]

You are pessimist :-) This article is much more positive than all previous news.

[noel157]

Μιni was slower on most stages at Wales even from client drivers with Fiesta .I measure the diff and was about 1 sec/km(0,7-1,3sec/km).There is no 0,5 sec/km.
That you said about the bold is not right.Because others are developing their cars too.Mini in Wales was slower than other gravel rallies was competing.
Mini in Italy, was way faster than Wales.Till now we haven t see progress from Mini.

Read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote. 6 events, look at the times when all was well with the car and Meeke (in this instance) was comfortable with the stage and the car was healthy.
And you think Mini has made no progress? What planet are you on? Absolute nonsense.

[Plan9]

He confirms that '' we have an agreement with Prodrive to run 2 cars for the whole season'' ;)
Also watch what he says about the engine...'' it is better to run(Prodrive) the engine development further,so you can balance your money better''

Its clear that bmw-mini doesn t want to spent further money at this project.
Prodrive must find sponsor if they want to compete.Thats what i understant from Mr Dirk Hollberg.

Who is this? Any guess on potential sponsors? I'd like to think that the driver line up will remain unchanged.

[GigiGalliNo1]

One would believe Sordo wil bring in the big €€€€'s with Spainish sponsors for the team... He's the Sainz of rally drivers now if I may say :D

[James Graham]

I think the whole 'will they, won't they' thing regarding budgets for 2012 is just Dave Richards and BMW arguing the toss over an extra few million euros. BMW want to throw money at their sportscar racing which makes sense but with VW entering the WRC arena they now have some German pride at stake and they cannot say that they aren't getting value for money out of the MINI project in terms of marketing.

Dave Richards needs a sponsor, all of the teams have them so why would he be able to get by without one? He is just being lazy and trying to get the money out of BMW before he has to start looking elsewhere!

2011 has been really promising for the MINI team and I hope they can build on things in 2012 although they now aren't going to test for two of the key events they didn't do last year and not homolgate any new parts until March which seems a bit silly.

[Plan9]

One would believe Sordo wil bring in the big €€€€'s with Spainish sponsors for the team... He's the Sainz of rally drivers now if I may say :D

Well he has taken his time. I just hope that Mini will not still be the slowest of the Manufacturer teams next year. I also worry about the effect that VW will have as they are both targeting the same sponsors and place in the market.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Do you actually see MINi as German?! :s

[bopApocalypse]

Do you actually see MINi as German?! :s

Most 'car guys' know MINI is German, but the mainstream press (both motorsports and general automotive) seem to pull the "MINI is British" line pretty hard.

[Mintexmemory]

Most 'car guys' know MINI is German, but the mainstream press (both motorsports and general automotive) seem to pull the "MINI is British" line pretty hard.

Maybe that's because the shell, built in Britain, is delivered to the Banbury factory. There it is worked on by a team of British mechanics to turn it into a WRC vehicle by using components sourced internationally (including the engine ;) ) - as is the case for most auto engineering. A team of predominantly British engineers and support crew then look after the team affairs during events. Then to top it the cars are painted in historic BL red/white with a Brit in one of the cars. The fact that, up to now, German euros have paid for it, is immaterial to most UK rally fans.

[AndyRAC]

I reckon most rallyfans in the UK know it’s really German, but with the history of BMC/ BL Mini, and because of Prodrive/Kris Meeke – we tend to ‘claim’ it as a British car. Of course, the press fly the flag – and anything that gets column inches, tv/radio for the sport is good....as WRC coverage in the mainstream is pretty poor, despite a brief mention of the ‘Rally of Wales’ in Breakfast News. Let's hope a sponsor can be found....

[dimviii]

Read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote. 6 events, look at the times when all was well with the car and Meeke (in this instance) was comfortable with the stage and the car was healthy.
And you think Mini has made no progress? What planet are you on? Absolute nonsense.

Absolute nonsense is to know 5 months before the homologation of parts,that the difference they are going to have is 0,5sec/km.After the 0,5sec/km, you claim that they are going to win,while the differnce with Citroen/Ford is about 1sec/km.I am very happy i am not in the same planet as you, 5 months ahead of earth.So you have to read again what you wrote,and don t tell me to read you properly.


The March 1st 2012 homologation upgrades should give the car the extra 1/2 sec / km that they need. If all goes well a win next season could well be possible. .

Absolut nonsense is that mini is progressing,while in Sardignia was faster than in Wales.
Absolut nonsense is to read an interview and to be unable to understand the meaning.

[noel157]

Absolute nonsense is to know 5 months before the homologation of parts,that the difference they are going to have is 0,5sec/km.After the 0,5sec/km, you claim that they are going to win,while the differnce with Citroen/Ford is about 1sec/km.I am very happy i am not in the same planet as you, 5 months ahead of earth.So you have to read again what you wrote,and don t tell me to read you properly.



Absolut nonsense is that mini is progressing,while in Sardignia was faster than in Wales.
Absolut nonsense is to read an interview and to be unable to understand the meaning.

Again, read properly - "a win next season could well be possible"
Interview? What interview? More nonsense.
There's much more to this situation than you seem to understand.
Look, there's little point in discussing this with you. I'm slowly losing the will to live so please have the last word.

[dimviii]

Again, read properly - "a win next season could well be possible"
Interview? What interview? More nonsense.
There's much more to this situation than you seem to understand.
Look, there's little point in discussing this with you. I'm slowly losing the will to live so please have the last word.

possible win, with 1sec/km slower? lol
what interview? lolol
wake up and see the facts without English blinkers.We are not obliged to read your nonsense about the 0,5sec/km before 5 months of homologation parts,or the Mini progress while in gravel we have reversing.
Good night.

[Nornbugger]

possible win, with 1sec/km slower? lol
what interview? lolol
wake up and see the facts without English blinkers.We are not obliged to read your nonsense about the 0,5sec/km before 5 months of homologation parts,or the Mini progress while in gravel we have reversing.
Good night.


Dimvit, why so agressive? You dont have to agree with Noel, I consider him an optimist but I'd rather have the company of an optimist than someone with your negative attitude.

[dimviii]

Dimvit, why so agressive? You dont have to agree with Noel, I consider him an optimist but I'd rather have the company of an optimist than someone with your negative attitude.
Rude people you have to front with the same behavior.

[adr17]

arujo and olivera driving fiesta today

[wildsir]

possible win, with 1sec/km slower? lol
what interview? lolol
wake up and see the facts without English blinkers.We are not obliged to read your nonsense about the 0,5sec/km before 5 months of homologation parts,or the Mini progress while in gravel we have reversing.
Good night.
Both drivers have set fastest times,so the car is not slow
Can I ask you a question... what do you think Loeb could achieve in a MINI?

[koko0703]

I can understand DTM is BMW's top priority but I think Mini in WRC is a good promotion. Even if Mini gets sub-par results next year, many of the general public don't still know Mini is in the intenrnational level motorsports, and I think BMW can use Mini WRC program as marketing tool for next year or two. Of course beyond that, especially when VW steals headlines, they need solid sponsors and results.

By the way I'm not too familiar with DTM but are DTM cars run by private teams? Does private teams pay BMW to run their car or it is solely works effort?

[Pinto]

mini heading for ireland to Mcgeean motorsport News < McGeehan Motorsport (http://www.mcgeehanmotorsport.com/index.php?id=news)

[Plan9]

Here are some detail about Anthony's plans for next year:

WRC behind the stages (http://wrcbehindthestages.blogspot.com/)

Any details about other customers for Mini? I sure that Mini will do a full program next year. What do you guys think???

[Plan9]

I can understand DTM is BMW's top priority but I think Mini in WRC is a good promotion. Even if Mini gets sub-par results next year, many of the general public don't still know Mini is in the intenrnational level motorsports, and I think BMW can use Mini WRC program as marketing tool for next year or two. Of course beyond that, especially when VW steals headlines, they need solid sponsors and results.

By the way I'm not too familiar with DTM but are DTM cars run by private teams? Does private teams pay BMW to run their car or it is solely works effort?

I think it is also important to note that BMW has been taking part in Dakar and other Raid events with the X5 and now the Countryman and Range Rover Evoque. So getting a bit dirty is not a problem. Prodrive will operate the Minis long-term as independent from BMW and will probably name the engines Prodrive. They will be able to develop the cars more quickly with a corporate partner.

BMW will participate in DTM with 3 M3s run by BMW Team Schnitzer, BMW Team RBM and BMW Team RMG. I understand that Team Schnitzer will be the "works" car.

[mousti]

Schnitzer is indeed the Works car, they were always the tuner for BMW like Abt is for Audi, OPC for Opel and AMG for Mercedes. I think RBM will will have also almost a Works car, Bart Mampaey has very close contacts with BMW Motorsport especially when they were so succesfully in WTCC with Andy Priaulx.

[noel157]

Quick BBC Oxfordshire report on behind the scenes at Mini during RGB. Well worth a watch:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-15740130

[mousti]

Autosport (http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php?cl=13020)

Mini will have complete 2012 WRC Season!

[Rallyper]

Well, if that is confirmed it would be great!!!

[Allyc85]

Autosport (http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php?cl=13020)

Mini will have complete 2012 WRC Season!

Fingers crossed. Lets hope there is money there for some of the developments they know they need :)

[Plan9]

More customers?

[Allyc85]

Mini have been out testing new bits :)

Photos du mur | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=312632158766764&set=a.112527868777195.13048.110767835619865&type=1&theater)

[Andre Oliveira]

Mini with mini-program? (http://translate.google.pt/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=pt-PT&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-magazin.de%2Frallyes%2Fwm%2Fnachrichten%2Fnews-detail%2Fd%2F2011%2F11%2F26%2Fmini-mit-mini-programm%2Findex.html)http://translate.google.pt/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=pt-PT&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-magazin.de%2Frallyes%2Fwm%2Fnachrichten%2Fnews-detail%2Fd%2F2011%2F11%2F26%2Fmini-mit-mini-programm%2Findex.html

[Plan9]

Mini with mini-program? (http://translate.google.pt/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=pt-PT&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-magazin.de%2Frallyes%2Fwm%2Fnachrichten%2Fnews-detail%2Fd%2F2011%2F11%2F26%2Fmini-mit-mini-programm%2Findex.html)http://translate.google.pt/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=pt-PT&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-magazin.de%2Frallyes%2Fwm%2Fnachrichten%2Fnews-detail%2Fd%2F2011%2F11%2F26%2Fmini-mit-mini-programm%2Findex.html

Dave say it aint so!!!!

[alleskids]

Motorsport Italia will have 2 Mini WRCar in 2012, also for cutitng the costs between the drivers. The second car wil be for Brasilian Paulo Nobre. Armindo Araújo had already confirmed his 2012 program with Motorpsort Italia/Mini?

[Plan9]

Will they both do all the rounds? I think that Armindo is working towards doing the majority of events according to updates on the WRC.com site but I am not sure how far he has progressed.

Does Motorsport Italia do the BWRT car?

[mousti]

I think Prodrive is doing it for BWRT.

Nobre with Motorsport Italia is probably thanks to GTA.

[Co-driven]

Motorsport Italia will have 2 Mini WRCar in 2012, also for cutitng the costs between the drivers. The second car wil be for Brasilian Paulo Nobre. Armindo Araújo had already confirmed his 2012 program with Motorpsort Italia/Mini?

Two weeks ago I was taking part in the last round of FIA South American Championship and there I talked to Paulo Nobre. He told me that he was working hard to do a few selected rounds (if I'm not mistaken, he said 8 rounds) of the WRC in the Mini. However, what was still holding him back was the money. The difference between what he spent doing the PWRC in 2010 and some rounds in 2011 in the Lancer R4 was huge. But, he said that he was willing to take part in the WRC and the team was willing to help him, doing a good price.

After that, I haven't talked to him, but I think it's reasonable that he and Armindo would share some costs for the season.

[MikeD]

Motorsport Italia will have 2 Mini WRCar in 2012, also for cutitng the costs between the drivers. The second car wil be for Brasilian Paulo Nobre. Armindo Araújo had already confirmed his 2012 program with Motorpsort Italia/Mini?

Just in case nobody noticed it, Paulo Nobre did Wales Rally GB in the MINI WRC car. He did not have any priority so he started far down. A picture of the car is below.

http://www.motorsport-italia.com/04_GB_mini_Nobre_wrc_2011.jpg

[Barreis]

Nice car.

[tolis]

Michal Kosciuszko will drive in Rajd Baborka the MINI WRC. Anyone know his programme for next year?
RSMP.pl - Aktualno¶ci: Ko¶ciuszko pokaza³ MINI (http://rsmp.pl/aktualnosci.php?readmore=307)

http://rsmp.pl/images/news/thumbs/kosciuszko-pokazal-mini-2908798758716541_t1.jpg

[mousti]

BWRT Mini partnership is done next year it'll be Ford.

[mm1]

At least Malcolm is happy :) don't think that the results will change.

[Plan9]

Two weeks ago I was taking part in the last round of FIA South American Championship and there I talked to Paulo Nobre. He told me that he was working hard to do a few selected rounds (if I'm not mistaken, he said 8 rounds) of the WRC in the Mini. However, what was still holding him back was the money. The difference between what he spent doing the PWRC in 2010 and some rounds in 2011 in the Lancer R4 was huge. But, he said that he was willing to take part in the WRC and the team was willing to help him, doing a good price.

After that, I haven't talked to him, but I think it's reasonable that he and Armindo would share some costs for the season.

Did he say what the Mini was like to drive? Any impressions? What did you think?

It seems like people do not want to be Mini customers (I guess it is cost?)

With Daniel at M-Sport at least DR will have one less car to fix. BTW look at the Mud, Snow and Tar website to see how much it costs to fix the body kit on the Mini. It will make your eyes water.

[Co-driven]

Did he say what the Mini was like to drive? Any impressions? What did you think?

It seems like people do not want to be Mini customers (I guess it is cost?)

With Daniel at M-Sport at least DR will have one less car to fix. BTW look at the Mud, Snow and Tar website to see how much it costs to fix the body kit on the Mini. It will make your eyes water.

Well, he really liked the experience of driving a World Rally Car, he said that it's something unbelievable. The technology, the team, the way the car accelerates, brakes and everything. A big difference from the N4's cars and the Lancer R4 he had driven so far on WRC.

I think that we'll probably see him on a few selected events on 2012 with the Mini and the Motorsport Italia team. But, he didn't said anything about costs or anything. What he said is that there is a big price gap between the costs for an event with the R4 and with the Mini, and that was the biggest obstacle for sealing the deal.


Why it costs 3k just to fit the rear wing of the Mini?!?!

[Plan9]

I don't know. The front wing is more. and Kris destroyed several. I can't believe it.

Interesting about the Mini. Hopefully we will all get our own chance one day.

[tolis]

Turkish drivers Unal Senbahar and Menderes Okur also tested the Mini.
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/217691_10150151871393043_568423042_6766805_2570206 _n.jpg


http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/208716_10150151871233043_568423042_6766802_3738076 _n.jpg


http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/216995_10150151873058043_568423042_6766810_7043248 _a.jpg

[OldF]

MINI WRC wins Rally Car of the Year Award

“The MINI John Cooper Works World Rally Car has been named Rally Car of the Year at the Autosport awards, one of the most prestigious in the motorsport industry.”

MINI WRC wins Rally Car of the Year Award (http://www.rallysportlive.com/2011/12/mini-wrc-wins-rally-car-of-the-year-award/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

[N.O.T]

lol

we should have a grudge match between Finish and British reporters....laughter to death guaranteed.

[tfp]

lol

we should have a grudge match between Finish and British reporters....laughter to death guaranteed.

?

[N.O.T]

you will (eventually and hopefully) have to accept that you will not understand everything i post..

[tfp]

you will (eventually and hopefully) have to accept that you will not understand everything i post..

I understand completely, I've just no idea where it came from!!

[bluuford]

Grifones Mini is for sale:
Mini Countryman WRC-S2000. Rallycars.info (http://www.rallycarsforsale.net/clas/index.php?ct=fsrca&md=details&id=59151)

Is it real WRC?

Price is the same as 2008 Subaru S14 WRC tarmac spec. and just a little bit more expencive than Peugeot Portugal is selling their 207-s tarmac car (230 000 EUR)

[mousti]

They have more than one. And all of them are WRC's (S 1.6t incl.)

[Gard]

Grifones Mini is for sale:
Mini Countryman WRC-S2000. Rallycars.info (http://www.rallycarsforsale.net/clas/index.php?ct=fsrca&md=details&id=59151)

Is it real WRC?

Price is the same as 2008 Subaru S14 WRC tarmac spec. and just a little bit more expencive than Peugeot Portugal is selling their 207-s tarmac car (230 000 EUR)

What do you mean? Real WRC? Mini has never made a real WRC. Only this years modified S2000

[mousti]

Uhm??? I don't understand what you're saying Gard.

Btw bluuford it's even standing in description that's the WRC and possible to convert to S1.6t version.

Btw is it even possible to buy a Mini WRC without the S1.6t stuff so it's even more cheaper?

[bluuford]

Btw bluuford it's even standing in description that's the WRC and possible to convert to S1.6t version.

Btw is it even possible to buy a Mini WRC without the S1.6t stuff so it's even more cheaper?
I was just amazed by the price for WRC... That is why I asked those questions

[Gard]

Uhm??? I don't understand what you're saying Gard.

Btw bluuford it's even standing in description that's the WRC and possible to convert to S1.6t version.

Btw is it even possible to buy a Mini WRC without the S1.6t stuff so it's even more cheaper?

What is the difference between WRC and S2000? Some bodywork and the restrictor?

[mousti]

And flywheel.. Does that mean it's not a real WRC? It's the same thing with the DS3 and Fiesta.

[tfp]

What is the difference between WRC and S2000? Some bodywork and the restrictor?

A flywheel aswel apparently! Not sure what else.

[Gard]

And flywheel.. Does that mean it's not a real WRC? It's the same thing with the DS3 and Fiesta.

They are s2000's as well. the C4 was a real WRC :-)

[mousti]

So the real WRC's are slower than S2000's?? Because some DS3's , Fiesta's and Mini's were faster than last year real WRC's in most of the stages..

Btw it can't be even a S2000 with a 1.6 cilinder but okay it's your oppinion. I saw them live at Spain and can't say they are less attractive than those real WRC's like u say.

Also Snijers with the Mini here in Belgium is fantastic because that car has a better sound than those real WRC's like the Focus who sounds sometimes like a hoover..

[OldF]

The WRC and RRC (Regional Rally Cars or as FIA calls them, S2000-Rally: 1.6 T engine) are the same cars except the WRC version have different
Front bumper
Rear wing
Flywheel
33 mm restrictor (RRC = 30 mm restrictor)

M-Sport is selling both in same package.
Ford Fiesta RRC Sales Document (http://www.m-sport.co.uk/index.php/component/remository/func-startdown/42)

[Mirek]

Plus asphalt front brakes and rear side-windows can be different

[noel157]

Mini starting pre RMC tests, one before Christmas and a further one in early January.

[Plan9]

Pictures is you got em?

[tfp]

And flywheel.. Does that mean it's not a real WRC? It's the same thing with the DS3 and Fiesta.

Beat me to it, Mousti :)

[Salist]

Harry Hunt, Evgeny Novikov and Herman Hassner Jr. - Mini WRC ???
Jovenes pilotos prueban el Mini WRC (http://www.latulasport.es/index.php/wrc/2874-jovenes-pilotos-prueban-el-mini-wrc.html)

[Andre Oliveira]

Mini with Red Bull sponsorship??? Very interesting

[PLuto]

Any other proper source than brittish Autosport?

[wildsir]

MINI has some upgrades for Begetta Memorial... Meeke won every race against Solberg and Latvala to win outright. Looks good for 2012.

[N.O.T]

Loooool....

[rallyfiend]

MINI has some upgrades for Begetta Memorial... Meeke won every race against Solberg and Latvala to win outright. Looks good for 2012.

'upgrades', or 'non-homologated prototype parts'?

[noel157]

Don't forget Meeke was often fastest in the first split of many stages in the 6 events that the team did this year. He is very fast off the start line.

[wildsir]

'upgrades', or 'non-homologated prototype parts'?
Same rules for everyone

[wildsir]

Loooool....
All Meeke and MINI could do was beat the opposition. Done.
lol.

[N.O.T]

taking rally shows seriously when most drivers with heavy driving schedules through the year are dragged there because their sponsors and teams want to is very wise also....

[wildsir]

Your obviously not a driver. That's what they do.. Drive. So Ogier won ROC and Meeke the Bettega, because the others didn't take it seriously and they were only there because the sponsors told them? OK.

[Barreis]

Bettega memorial is really cool to see. I was there 2001 and it was great.

[Hartusvuori]

Wildsir, seriously. If there are indications that MINI or Meeke will improve their attack for 2012 (which they should because that's natural), please don't drew them from rallyshow results. Sure when a professional driver puts on a helmet it's about being the fastest in the finish, but still rallyshows don't qualify for drewing any conclusions how fast a driver or a car is in proper rallies. In the proper stages it's all different, and I guess you know that too.

[N.O.T]

Your obviously not a driver. That's what they do.. Drive. So Ogier won ROC and Meeke the Bettega, because the others didn't take it seriously and they were only there because the sponsors told them? OK.

LOL...more please.

[mousti]

Yes indeed here u have to agree with NOT, it's called a rallySHOW it's for fun, it's nice to win it though but don't really get conclusions from it of that the car is now better or the driver is suddenly better than the other.. It's a bit like a after tour criterium it's all about the fans and money.. Even there the winner has already been selected before the start has been given.

[wildsir]

LOL...more please.
I said, you obviously not a driver, or of a competitive nature, you prefer to run you life from you computer screen.

[N.O.T]

LOL...more...more...

please i want an in deapth analysis of the RoC as well... need to short out my favourites for next year.

[OldF]

Heikki Kovalainen is the best rally driver in the whole world because he beat Loeb in 2004 ROC. :D

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Heikki Kovalainen is the best rally driver in the whole world because he beat Loeb in 2004 ROC. :D

Bloody hell that´s true. Forget others.....here comes (world fastest) maailmannopein Heikki.

[Gard]

I said, you obviously not a driver, or of a competitive nature, you prefer to run you life from you computer screen.

N.O.T has a very valid point. Based oh his results in Bettega, I think Andrea Dovizioso will win MotoGP 2012 or get top 3, if he goes WRC. He beat both Latvala and Meeke.

Wonder how Meeke and Latvala would have looked on Doviziosos GP-machine?

[Micke_VOC]

Swedish STCC (Touring car) Champion Richard Göransson is rumoured to drive a Mini WRC in Rally Sweden
In 2011 Richard drove a Mitsu EVO X in Rally Sweden and finished second in PWRC.

[J.Lindstroem]

Swedish STCC (Touring car) Champion Richard Göransson is rumoured to drive a Mini WRC in Rally Sweden
In 2011 Richard drove a Mitsu EVO X in Rally Sweden and finished second in PWRC.

Swedish magazine Teknikens Värld is reporting about a second Mini with a Swedish driver, mentioning PG "since he has been driving the Mini before". I wouldn't trust that source hehe

[Micke_VOC]

Swedish magazine Teknikens Värld is reporting about a second Mini with a Swedish driver, mentioning PG "since he has been driving the Mini before". I wouldn't trust that source hehe

Heard about Göransson for a couple months ago..So i think there are some truth in that rumour..
Göransson will have a pressconference on Monday about something...

[OldF]

I don’t recall seeing this interview on the forum before.

“So far 20 cars have been built, of which 15 have been sold, the others used by the team. The first right hand drive car is currently being built.”

Dave Wilcock, Technical Review of Mini WRC in 2011 (http://www.therallysite.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10107&Itemid=1)

[OldF]

WTF!

Mini misses deadline to sign up for 2012 World Rally Championship - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96806?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Whaaat! Not looking so good...

[focus206]

But I think the deadline has been moved to December 22nd...

[OldF]

"Mini has missed the deadline to sign up for next year's World Rally Championship, which closed last night."

[phando]

lets hope they give them a bit more time

[jd_89]

Hello there, Everbody!

On rallyonline.pl has been said that "On thursday, shortly before deadline of manufacturer registration, there'll be a meeting at Mini where the future of the team will be discussed." So this imply that maybe deadline has been moved to December 22nd.

Link to full article (translated): click (http://translate.google.pl/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallyonline.pl%2Finde x.php%3F1%26modex%3Dpnews%26%26s%3D35336&sl=pl&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8)

[RS]

I'm sure the FIA are not going to refuse them entry if they come late.

[phando]

What a waste of money if not! :mad:

[danon]

Problems with Prodrive? :arrow: MINI (noch) nicht für WRC-Saison 2012 eingeschrieben | Automobil | MOTORSPORT aktuell (http://www.motorsport-aktuell.com/automobil/mini-noch-nicht-fuer-wrc-saison-2012-eingeschrieben-4182733.html)

[Mirek]

There is enough time for panic. Let's wait and see when FIA publishes the list of entries ;)

[Langdale Forest]

Surley the could enter the cars in evrery rally and still compete for the drivers championship if the worse comes to the worst and they cannot enter as an official team.

[Juha_Koo]

I don't really understand what's with all this uncertainty over the Mini WRC project, it feels like BMW is saying something and doing totally different.

[tfp]

I don't really understand what's with all this uncertainty over the Mini WRC project, it feels like BMW is saying something and doing totally different.

My thoughts exactly!

[rallyfiend]

My thoughts exactly!

You need to separate BMW from this somewhat. This project is very much a Prodrive one, with, I guess, a license given from BMW to Prodrive to use the Mini brand. Prodrive set this up as a commercial project along the same lines as M-Sport. The funding is supposed to come from sales and servicing of cars and sponsorship independently gained by Prodrive.

[Juha_Koo]

You need to separate BMW from this somewhat. This project is very much a Prodrive one, with, I guess, a license given from BMW to Prodrive to use the Mini brand. Prodrive set this up as a commercial project along the same lines as M-Sport. The funding is supposed to come from sales and servicing of cars and sponsorship independently gained by Prodrive.

Well, the engine was supposed to be BMW-based in the beginning...

[mousti]

It's a engine produced by BMW.

[mm1]

Average Joe will always see it as Mini/Bmw fail, not Prodrive's, that's something Bmw should think about, at the end WRC budget for Mini is not the biggest one, comparing with other sponsorsip deals/motorsport projects they make.

[Plan9]

Why are they playing around so much; the car is solid shouldn't that be enough for the money men. I don't understand what the problem has always been with the Mini team.

[danon]

Мini team - Мaxi dream!

[wildsir]

growing pains..

[Zeakiwi]

What is the closing date for the IRC ?

[cut full]

that would be nice: prodrive with mini in irc :D ...instead of doing nothing. would they be allowed to compete with their 1.6t s2000? in that case the miracle of skoda one brand trophy in 2012 irc season should be history.

[Mirek]

Get back on Earth ;)

[AP-Racing]

Get back on Earth ;)

For what? Maybe he feeling better in fantasy world :)