Prodrive Mini WRC

[Plan9]

+1 looks like a site for budget cola. I don't think an exclusive brand like MINI would want to have an association with something like this. Monster/Red Bull is a different story.

It is a noticeable trend that in motorsport sometimes the humblest of talents can access the hugest amounts of money.

[Brother John]

Honestly speaking I don't like this new (or your?) moderating style. Interesting discussions end before they start because of too precise classifying to certain matters. There's also been very confusing situations when in some threads something has been totally relevant but for some reason someone has seen it irrelevant and it has been deleted or transferred. If there happens to be a break from the forum then, it gets really confusing.

Is not allowed to say that the discussion is off topick? I have no problem that some people have a totally different opinion about my work here.
Instead of negative response you can also come up with positive comments and ideas. You can also not respond to a post, Is that not what everyone does on a forum?
Let's keep it friendly here on the forum and have fun.

[J.Lindstroem]

Is not allowed to say that the discussion is off topick? I have no problem that some people have a totally different opinion about my work here.
Instead of negative response you can also come up with positive comments and ideas. You can also not respond to a post, Is that not what everyone does on a forum?
Let's keep it friendly here on the forum and have fun.

I know that its a completly new task for you, so arn't you interested in some constructive critisism from the members? I agree with Juha_Koo that you need to be objective as a moderator, you can't just let your own priorities, interests and values shine trough your work.

Cheers and have a great day!

[Brother John]

I know that its a completly new task for you, so arn't you interested in some constructive critisism from the members? I agree with Juha_Koo that you need to be objective as a moderator, you can't just let your own priorities, interests and values shine trough your work.

Cheers and have a great day!

I will reply to this message in the thread, Rally discussions, comments and pub talk. ;)

[Juha_Koo]

I will reply to this message in the thread, Rally discussions, comments and pub talk. ;)

I will join that discussion and bring out my views later this week as soon as I get some free time, really busy right now with studying and I'm also moving... I can shortly comment that I didn't want to sound rude - I admit that the message could have been more constructive but I was in a hurry. Due to the high number of likes, it seems that I had a valid point atleast to a some extent.

[Plan9]

lets get back to MINI news and rumors???

[Red bull]

MaxRally | News | Mini in funding hope after Monte podium (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/mini_in_funding_hope_after_monte_podium/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

[Red bull]

Mini WRC team principal Dave Wilcock on his team's Monte Carlo near-miss - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97188?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

[Andre Oliveira]

Martin Holmes' suspicions that BMW intends to sever all links with Prodrive " (http://translate.google.pt/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=pt-PT&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fautosport.aeiou.pt%2Fgen.pl%3Fp%3Ds tories%26op%3Dview%26fokey%3Das.stories%2F102912)

[RS]

I didn't realise that Mini had only 7 events confirmed for now, I thought Sordo was in for the whole season.

[N.O.T]

Martin Holmes' suspicions that BMW intends to sever all links with Prodrive " (http://translate.google.pt/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=pt-PT&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fautosport.aeiou.pt%2Fgen.pl%3Fp%3Ds tories%26op%3Dview%26fokey%3Das.stories%2F102912)

who is Martin Holmes ??

[MikeD]

I didn't realise that Mini had only 7 events confirmed for now, I thought Sordo was in for the whole season.

Sodo is confirmed for the whole season except New Zealand, but so far MINI only is confimed with 2 cars for 7 events.

[MikeD]

who is Martin Holmes ??

WRC journalist at GPWeek (i think)

[Plan9]

I didn't realise that Mini had only 7 events confirmed for now, I thought Sordo was in for the whole season.
They hadn't wanted to make a big deal about it (for obvious reasons). Sordo definitely won't be in NZ. Maybe one of the privateers will be here. As I understand it will all be very piecemeal this season for the official car although as you can see with Sweden the 52 car will carry independent sponsorship. I think they have to do a full 2013 and what's more both Kris and Prodrive admit they have a contract for that season also.

[Steve Boyd]

WRC journalist at GPWeek (i think)
With about 40 years WRC reporting experience & has competed at that level as a co-driver alongside a number of notable names, see:
RallyBase (http://www.rallybase.nl/index.php?type=profile&driverid=5655)

[N.O.T]

LOL...

Who is martin Holmes again and why we care what he thinks ??

[cali]

Cos he has some inside information? Cos he has more experience in rallying than you have (most of them useless) posts here ;) Just a thought ...

[N.O.T]

Cos he has some inside information? Cos he has more experience in rallying than you have (most of them useless) posts here ;) Just a thought ...

LOL.... wrong thought....

Why bother with such people ?

Martin Holmes...

LOL

[cali]

OK, then i don't bother. Thanks doc!

[Josti]

LOL.... wrong thought....

Why bother with such people ?

Martin Holmes...

LOL

http://youtu.be/wRom-BYrAGI?t=2m13s

[BDunnell]

LOL...

Who is martin Holmes again and why we care what he thinks ??

Might he — I hate to suggest this — be better informed than you are?

[sollitt]

LOL.... wrong thought....

Why bother with such people ?

Martin Holmes...

LOL Martin Holmes is opinionated, can be arrogant and at times has an acerbic tongue.
Nevertheless he remains the sports most pre-eminent and most respected journalist who has likely forgotten more about the sport than you'll ever have known. He is therefore not deserving of your derision.

It is exactly this kind of nonsense that the new moderator ought be clamping down on.

[N.O.T]

Martin Holmes or whatever his job or his name is, is the classic example of someone who is actively involved with something for so long and still hasn't learnt anything about it....

i will not bother with him...i would rather watch paint dry.

[sollitt]

With that statement, however many (or few) ounces of credibility you are clinging to have just flown out the window.

[Coach 2]

This is an assertion NOT without explanation

[cali]

Martin Holmes or whatever his job or his name is, is the classic example of someone who is actively involved with something for so long and still hasn't learnt anything about it....

i will not bother with him...i would rather watch paint dry.
Quite the opposite, my dear friend! But you will learn that eventually ... it just takes time

[RS]

They hadn't wanted to make a big deal about it (for obvious reasons). Sordo definitely won't be in NZ. Maybe one of the privateers will be here. As I understand it will all be very piecemeal this season for the official car although as you can see with Sweden the 52 car will carry independent sponsorship. I think they have to do a full 2013 and what's more both Kris and Prodrive admit they have a contract for that season also.

Kris has a contract for this year but he is not driving... They could just rent out the second seat again.

Maybe Prodrive should approach Hertz or Europcar for a title sponsorship??

[Mirek]

Martin Holmes is opinionated, can be arrogant and at times has an acerbic tongue.
Nevertheless he remains the sports most pre-eminent and most respected journalist who has likely forgotten more about the sport than you'll ever have known. He is therefore not deserving of your derision.

I think that Martin Holmes also reads this forum ;)

[Leon]

I think that Martin Holmes also reads this forum ;)

hope he will tell us about the future, if any, of GPweek

[BDunnell]

Martin Holmes is opinionated, can be arrogant and at times has an acerbic tongue.
Nevertheless he remains the sports most pre-eminent and most respected journalist who has likely forgotten more about the sport than you'll ever have known. He is therefore not deserving of your derision.

It is exactly this kind of nonsense that the new moderator ought be clamping down on.

I disagree completely. Of course N.O.T.'s comments are absurd, unfounded and worthless, but they are his opinion. Everyone seems able to see straight through them without any need to delete them. That, surely, is sufficient, isn't it?

[BDunnell]

Martin Holmes or whatever his job or his name is, is the classic example of someone who is actively involved with something for so long and still hasn't learnt anything about it....

i will not bother with him...i would rather watch paint dry.

Two questions.

1. In what sense does the amount you have learned about the sport exceed Martin Holmes' knowledge? Provide examples, too.

2. Why, precisely, should we bother reading your comments?

[N.O.T]

Two questions.

1. In what sense does the amount you have learned about the sport exceed Martin Holmes' knowledge? Provide examples, too.

2. Why, precisely, should we bother reading your comments?

1. In the sense i see things with no bias at all

2. None said you should

[General Prim]

who is Martin Holmes ??


Who are you?

[N.O.T]

Who are you?

a nobody, same are that Holmes guy who voices his random and 90% incaurate opinions....

[General Prim]

At least, he deserve respect from you, who as I told in a former post, we do not know who you are or what your merits are you and who hides his name behind a nick. I will introduce you to him in Loutraki of course if you go there in May. Efgaristó

[dcr22B]

hope he will tell us about the future, if any, of GPweek

It'll start back closer to the start of the Formula Yawn season.

[Wasted Talent]

a nobody, same are that Holmes guy who voices his random and 90% incaurate opinions....

I think you should learn who people are before you post....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=martin+holmes+rally&tag=googhydr-21&index=stripbooks&hvadid=9030373985&ref=pd_sl_4rpk81fmtg_e

WT

[A.F.F.]

It'll start back closer to the start of the Formula Yawn season.

Formula Yawn :D

Brilliant :up:

[SubaruNorway]

Eugene Donnelly testing the Mini WRC, anyone know what his program is? ITRC i assume. Good to see him back :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ETf-UPgexPI

[noel157]

Yep, ITC.

[bluuford]

Nice to see him back with up to date car.. compared to the 100 years old Corolla WRC ;-)

[mousti]

He drove already after that with a Fabia WRC and S12 WRC. Very good pilot with the Toy WRC!

[bluuford]

He drove already after that with a Fabia WRC and S12 WRC. Very good pilot with the Toy WRC!
Yes I know, but he drove again with Corolla WRC in 2011 I think?

[mousti]

Could be don't follow it too much.

[WRCS14]

I just google eugene donly mini as I had not heard much of him in recent years. One of first pages show he is made bankrupt by friend who give him loan of €40,000 and he not pay it back!! He must do well again very soon to be able to drive Mini wrc car.

[bt52b]

@MikeD
@Josti
@BDunnell
@sollitt
@cali
@General Prim
@Wasted Talent

Stop quoting stupid posts in full. If @NOT bothers you so much, add to ignore list.


Mini WRC team principal Dave Wilcock on his team's Monte Carlo near-miss - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97188?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

Very sad if its true.

Would be real kick in the teeth to ProDrive after putting so much work into that car, and then being forced to hand it over to a third party.

[WRCS14]

I read other articles but I thought it was mistake in google translator. It say BMW will pursue the mini rally car with a germany company but i though google was just putting the germany company phrase in becuase of a BMW story.

My understanding in the last few month is that BMW have little interest in rally car any more and also they have new factory touring car. Am I now correct in to think that BMW want to dump prodrive, who like them or not have made a very good car and go with some other preperation experts?

[janvanvurpa]

Yes I know, but he drove again with Corolla WRC in 2011 I think?


If you look at Swedish WRC times last year poor old Mats Jonsson seemed to go pretty OK with an ancient Ford Escort Cosworth, which is really just a tarted up and 65mm shorter Sierra and Sierra came along in 1983...I think his times in the Swedish Champignonskit event after the WRC, on road doubtless with big ruts and ice, were around 4th-to 6th compared to the WRC boys....Point being is the newest stuff is nice, but maybe not as utterly fantastic as some want to believe...

oh wait is this Pub talk? (sluuuuuuuurp) ta en slurk till!

[janvanvurpa]

@MikeD
@Josti
@BDunnell
@sollitt
@cali
@General Prim
@Wasted Talent

Stop quoting stupid posts in full. If @NOT bothers you so much, add to ignore list.





Thank you.
Boys, there are a lot of us here who have utilised the Ignore option for the village researcher from Greece, and if you quote his posts, all his negtive and jealousy gets posted and many of use lose our appetites.
Please if you are going to feed the troll, don't quote...

Thank you (sluuuuurrrrp) (Still having a beer since we're like in a Pub.)

[Andre Oliveira]

I read other articles but I thought it was mistake in google translator. It say BMW will pursue the mini rally car with a germany company but i though google was just putting the germany company phrase in becuase of a BMW story.

My understanding in the last few month is that BMW have little interest in rally car any more and also they have new factory touring car. Am I now correct in to think that BMW want to dump prodrive, who like them or not have made a very good car and go with some other preperation experts?

In Portuguese (original text) is clear that BMW wants a german company with the WRC project.

[Plan9]

Kris has a contract for this year but he is not driving... They could just rent out the second seat again.

Maybe Prodrive should approach Hertz or Europcar for a title sponsorship??

Lol Prodrive should be so lucky! Dani doesn't have a contract for 2013 so who know what will happen with either car and driver.

[MikeD]

@janvanvurpa & bt52b,

Please don't tell me or anybody else who we shall or shall not communicate with in here!

The forum is free and if N.O.T. is allowed to participate by the site/moderators then it's not your job to judge who should participate in the debate.

Please add me to your ignore list if this is a problem for you!

[BDunnell]

@janvanvurpa & bt52b,

Please don't tell me or anybody else who we shall or shall not communicate with in here!

The forum is free and if N.O.T. is allowed to participate by the site/moderators then it's not your job to judge who should participate in the debate.

Quite so.

[OldF]

oh wait is this Pub talk? (sluuuuuuuurp) ta en slurk till!

Do you have hangover today? If so, ta en slurk eller några så mor du bra efter.

[jens]

Some here shall stop getting personal, try to be friends again instead and discuss about Prodrive Mini WRC. :)

[WRCS14]

If what Andre Oliveira says that the correct translation means BMW want a german company for the rally car then who could it be? I am not familiar enough with German rallying to know.

I would think that podiums last year, hit a bridge and still finish 2nd in Monte Carlo this year all points to positive outcome? If the car finished in say 11th place or something with just poor pace then I would also so yes, time for a new company to build the car but this isnt the case.

[Red bull]

This is really confusing,In the first place didnt BMW give Prodrive the authority to start the MINI WRC project???

[General Prim]

I do not think that ask respect for a person is a stupid thing, or not?

[janvanvurpa]

@janvanvurpa & bt52b,

Please don't tell me or anybody else who we shall or shall not communicate with in here!

The forum is free and if N.O.T. is allowed to participate by the site/moderators then it's not your job to judge who should participate in the debate.

Please add me to your ignore list if this is a problem for you!

Keep your shirt on Mike. I did NOT tell you who you could or could NOT communicate with.
Do NOT put words in my mouth, NOThing I said could be construed to suggest that.

I said :

Please if you are going to feed the troll, don't quote...

Thank you (sluuuuurrrrp) (Still having a beer since we're like in a Pub.).

That is, since you chose to mis-read both the words and the intent, ASKING, and I even said please and thank you.

It was a REQUEST, which you can do, or NOT as you please.
It is NOT telling you anything..

It's simply many are just tired of reading the same tired insults of virtually every driver in the WRC as "sick dogs" and 'village drivers' again and again and again.
I will ask something else: maybe you could NOT look to be offended so easily and definitely NOT mis-read what people write here.
In short, relax a little.
OK?

[janvanvurpa]

Do you have hangover today? If so, ta en slurk eller några så mor du bra efter.

Neeej, men tack!
Puss o kram,
Old JV

[Steve Boyd]

This is really confusing,In the first place didnt BMW give Prodrive the authority to start the MINI WRC project???
I thought that Prodrive did a lot of the basic design work for a "generic" WR car before signing with BMW. If that is the case then how much of the design is owned by Prodrive & what would BMW be left with if they split? BMW might just finish up owning the bodyshell & engine with the rights to the transmission and suspension belonging to Prodrive. How would that benefit either of them?

[Plan9]

Sandell has a 3 year deal with Sweden World Rally Team and Prodrive to run a Mini, according to this story:

World Rally Championship - News - Sandell vows to do backers proud in Sweden (http://www.wrc.com/news/sandell-vows-to-do-backers-proud-in-sweden/?fid=15983)

No word as yet on what events he will do.

[Allyc85]

Have Mini been doing any snow testing?

[mousti]

When preparing for Monte they did. Probably will do some testing in Scandinavia.

[darkstar]

mini finally is going to divorce from prodrive and is looking for a new partner as it seems:

Vollbremsung von BMW/Mini*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2012/02/01/vollbremsung-von-bmwmini/index.html)

at least it sounds like they dont want to stop the rallye programme totally...

[Rallyper]

So Mini (BMW) will continue but with another partner as DR failed to get economical sponsors to the team?

I think now BMW has a great more responsibilty to work this out. Pulling out of WRC at this stage is a defeat and only for loosers. BMW is not a looser.

[wwbroe]

mini finally is going to divorce from prodrive and is looking for a new partner as it seems:

Vollbremsung von BMW/Mini*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2012/02/01/vollbremsung-von-bmwmini/index.html)

at least it sounds like they dont want to stop the rallye programme totally...

They are talking about Motorsport Italia as a possible replacement for Prodrive, especially for client Mini's.Does that mean that they are considering Tabaton's team, Grifone, to prepare the Mini's in the future?

[dimviii]

They are talking about Motorsport Italia as a possible replacement for Prodrive, especially for client Mini's.Does that mean that they are considering Tabaton's team, Grifone, to prepare the Mini's in the future?

neither Motorsport Italia or Grifone can continue Prodrives role.It s different to rent/service/build ready developed cars,and different to develop them at wrc level.

[wwbroe]

neither Motorsport Italia or Grifone can continue Prodrives role.It s different to rent/service/build ready developed cars,and different to develop them at wrc level.

For sure, i completely agree with you, but i was just asking because i read something like this on rally-magazine.de. I wonde what are BMW plans for future and with whom they will do some WRC rally's.

[dimviii]

For sure, i completely agree with you, but i was just asking because i read something like this on rally-magazine.de. I wonde what are BMW plans for future and with whom they will do some WRC rally's.

imho the project is f@cked.
this situation is circus.

[AndyRAC]

For sure, i completely agree with you, but i was just asking because i read something like this on rally-magazine.de. I wonde what are BMW plans for future and with whom they will do some WRC rally's.

Nothing!! BMW aren't interested in WRC - it appears they've completed their part of the bargain. Prodrive couldn't find sponsors, etc not BMW's fault.

However, it would be interesting if as rumoured in the Autosport article - they took the project in-house....which would be quite a turn around.

[WRCS14]

I read an article from rally mania which says the termination will be announced Friday with the continuation work being with Autosport team italia. Also mentions their innability to raise money as being one part of the disagreement/problems.

I am not familiar with this new team/company in Italy. Will they be able to make new parts for homologation etc to take on the might of Citroen and M-sport plus Volkswagen group.

Ok yes if development stop now the Mini can be ran by a proffesional team with fast driver and will still make podiums but from 2013 on without major changes the car will fall behind as Citroen and Ford continue to raise the bar.

I think this break down is also going to affect the values of the cars private customers have bought maybe? I think this is disaster from every one.

[General Prim]

Rally.de speaks about Spanish media, but Rally noticias is an Argentinian website and I have powerfull doubts about its information channels....

[dimviii]

I am not familiar with this new team/company in Italy. .

former ralliart italy

[darkstar]

hmm, ralliart italy doesnt sound too bad...i hope the cars will be around for 2012/13 at least.

[Barreis]

It's bad.

[mousti]

True it's bad, they have no credentials that show they can run a WRT and develop such car. There logistics are good but probably also not enough to run also such a big team. This could be the beginning of the burial of Mini :(

[Allyc85]

There is probably something blindingly obvious, but what have Ralliart Italy done in the last few years that makes them better than Prodrive?

[Juha_Koo]

There is probably something blindingly obvious, but what have Ralliart Italy done in the last few years that makes them better than Prodrive?

PSD Evo10s. :D

[dimviii]

PSD Evo10s. :D
:D

[GTA]

just for info: its Not "Former" Ralliart Italy.. they run in the PWRC with Mitsubishi.... Motorsport Italia is new team created in 01-2011 that run the Mini WRC for Paulo Nobre and Armindo Araujo.!

[dimviii]

just for info: its Not "Former" Ralliart Italy.. they run in the PWRC with Mitsubishi.... Motorsport Italia is new team created in 01-2011 that run the Mini WRC for Paulo Nobre and Armindo Araujo.!

who is the owner? created from who?

[GTA]

http://www.motorsport-italia.com

[dimviii]

http://www.motorsport-italia.com

same company.Mitsubishi grN / R4 is dead moneywise,they created another company to rent/service minis at wrc.Workshops are the same.
Motorsport Italia Team (http://www.motorsport-italia.com/contact_2012.htm)

Mitsubishi Motors - Ralliart Italy (http://www.ralliart.it/contact_uk.htm)

[GTA]

Sorry but the Lancer Group N and R4 Projects are not dead. and is used by many private teams in Europe, same for the Subaru R4.
That you do not read so much about them in the news and websites is another story, is mostly national results.

[Barreis]

Prodrive rubbishes Mini split rumours - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97259)
Richard Goransson to make WRC car debut in Rally Sweden - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97260)

[RS]

Who actually owns the cars which Prodrive run on WRC events?

Do BMW provide any finance for the programme?

Reading between the lines of the various quotes it seems BMW may pull any/all funding from the programme and just let it continue with privateers, and that Prodrive will battle on as one of those privateers.

It must be a great disappointment for all the staff at Prodrive who have made a decent car that the Prodrive management have let them down. What was the last successful project which Prodrive did? Aston Martin thing, Mini WRC, F1 bid all seem to have been a disaster.

[dimviii]

Sorry but the Lancer Group N and R4 Projects are not dead. and is used by many private teams in Europe, same for the Subaru R4.
That you do not read so much about them in the news and websites is another story, is mostly national results.
Jack don t want to play with words.Think that everybody understood what i am saying.

[noel157]

Eugene Donnelly's Mini WRC entered in the first round of the ITC this weekend:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/393876_10150540552573481_744688480_8863182_8994691 26_n.jpg

[Plan9]

Prodrive rubbishes Mini split rumours - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97259)
Richard Goransson to make WRC car debut in Rally Sweden - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97260)

The first story is a bit contradictory in that there is no split between Prodrive and BMW yet BMW are worried (rightly) about VW and Prodrive has no money. It seems BMW and Prodrive have reached an impasse and cannot move on. One of these issues must be right and one wrong. I don't think that BMW want to scrap the MINI project but are frustrated that Prodrive cannot find money. On the other hand Prodrive cannot do any more without money that BMW does not want to provide.

I do not understand why BMW does not want to fund this because they are more than capable and I don't think they want to leave the WRC?

Does anyone know what's going on in Prodrive? Maybe a reason they cannot get cash (I mean they are a world renowned brand in motorsport and have tentacles all over that industry)

[Plan9]

Eugene Donnelly's Mini WRC entered in the first round of the ITC this weekend:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/393876_10150540552573481_744688480_8863182_8994691 26_n.jpg

Nice livery, why does he have Kumho tyres? It seems sacrilegious for the MINI to have them.

[Mirek]

If I'm not mistaken Kumho used to be sponsor of Eugene for ages. Besides that these tyres proved to be good in Irish conditions.

[noel157]

If I'm not mistaken Kumho used to be sponsor of Eugene for ages. Besides that these tyres proved to be good in Irish conditions.

Exactly. Kumho have been with Donnelly for some time and he's won the ITC with them too. A lot cheaper than Michelin as well.

[Viking]

Eugene Donnelly's Mini WRC entered in the first round of the ITC this weekend:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/393876_10150540552573481_744688480_8863182_8994691 26_n.jpg

Does this mean it is ok now to use the new wrc cars in national championships? / Up to the ASN?

[Barreis]

Isn't it s2000 car?

[noel157]

Isn't it s2000 car?

Nope, ex Sordo car. McGeehan driving, Donnelly co-driving:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Noz5e2KuJGs

Incar with Donnelly driving:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETf-UPgexPI

[noel157]

Not rally related but another thing goes wrong with Mini:

BBC News - Mini names lethal weather front 'Cooper' in PR gaffe (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16852429)

[rallyfiend]

BMW set to terminate Prodrive contract to run the Mini WRC team - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97275)

Seems as though Autosport have done some further digging and found out that it has some to have some solid truth to it.

If I was a betting man, I'd say we won't see any Mini's once the current homologation runs out....

[Barreis]

Terrible.

[Wasted Talent]

Totally amazing. What a mess........

WT

[noel157]

Might be good news but only if it goes in-house or to another company. At least there'll be finally a good budget behind it.
The bad news is it is canned completely.

[Barreis]

Maybe it's time that guys like D.Richards leave the sport.

[rallyfiend]

I would assume that the cars then won't run in Sweden?

[dimviii]

I would assume that the cars then won't run in Sweden?

cars must be on road,or in Sweden already

[noel157]

Maybe it's time that guys like D.Richards leave the sport.

I believe DR was a problem for Munich. Don't know why but they disagreed on many things as the project progressed. That was why he stepped back and put Wilcock in charge. The technical side must be seen as a success, just no money.

[Barreis]

No more works mini (at the moment it seems) and if Eurosport cotract fails, sport is going down again.

[mousti]

Does this mean it is ok now to use the new wrc cars in national championships? / Up to the ASN?
Offcourse, last year there were DS3's, Mini's and Fiesta's driving in national championships..

[Franky]

"There was a chance this might have happened last year," said the source, "but in the end it was decided to wait until after Monte Carlo."

Could someone explain me the logic behind the decision to run one additional rally at the beginning of a new season to make the decision? What is one rally going to change, that I don't understand.

[Barreis]

It's nothing for BMW. But media situation in WRC is terrible at the moment.

[A FONDO]

Maybe it's time that guys like D.Richards leave the sport. :!: :!: :!:

[dimviii]

Could someone explain me the logic behind the decision to run one additional rally at the beginning of a new season to make the decision? What is one rally going to change, that I don't understand.

time to find a sponsor.

[EightGear]

I will never-ever buy a BMW in my life, even if I had the money. I hope their DTM program fails miserably.

[Allyc85]

No more works mini (at the moment it seems) and if Eurosport cotract fails, sport is going down again.

Can it go any further down?

[Miika]

Can it go any further down?

Negotiations for the promoter/TV deal stalling for the rest of the season. VW cancelling their WRC program because of the uncertainty with the promotion of the series. Matthew Wilson finding a solid sponsor for the next five years. Yes, it can still go down from here.

[BDunnell]

I believe DR was a problem for Munich. Don't know why but they disagreed on many things as the project progressed. That was why he stepped back and put Wilcock in charge. The technical side must be seen as a success, just no money.

Indeed. What is there for BMW to complain about in terms of performance — surely the fundamental point at stake?

While we clearly don't know all the ins and outs, one is left with the feeling from this and its various F1 efforts in recent times that BMW can deal with running touring car programmes but not much else motorsport-wise.

[WRCS14]

Autosport go from saying yesterday to saying all rumours are false, then 24hrs later they confirm that rumours are probably true.

We could have been looking at a minimum of 8 cars at every round next year and now back to only a definite 4 again this year and hopefully back up to 6 again next year.

This TV deal is final nail in coffin for Mini project. I think when Subaru stopped with their hatchback rallycar it fell out of favour at wrc level but also at National level with regard to private entrants. I think the same will happen with the Mini.

[noel157]

Autosport go from saying yesterday to saying all rumours are false, then 24hrs later they confirm that rumours are probably true.

We could have been looking at a minimum of 8 cars at every round next year and now back to only a definite 4 again this year and hopefully back up to 6 again next year.

This TV deal is final nail in coffin for Mini project. I think when Subaru stopped with their hatchback rallycar it fell out of favour at wrc level but also at National level with regard to private entrants. I think the same will happen with the Mini.

Autosport said PRODRIVE (Taylor) said that the story was rubbish, no?

Prodrive rubbishes Mini split rumours - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97259)

[Miika]

To be exact it wasn´t Autosport that claimed the rumours to be rubbish yesterday, it was Prodrive´s Taylor saying to Autosport they were false. He thought he was going to Sweden, and maybe still does.

EDIT: Slooow.

[Barreis]

Todt should be balls cut off after Eurosport deal fail.

[Salist]

BMW to end Prodrive MINI contract?
iRally (http://www.irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00000189&)

[Jake Stephens]

Todt should be balls cut off after Eurosport deal fail.

I think that's the funniest post I've read throughout this thread, fair play :)

[Plan9]

This is terrible news and an awful day for the WRC. I thought it was bad when we lost Meeke but now it looks like we will lose Sordo as well. According to the recent Autosport article an Italian preparation firm may take over (I don't know who could do it in Germany unless they get a BMW tuning firm). I can't believe that Dave ****ed this up so badly. At Suzuki had the decency to stay in for a whole season before spitting the dummy!!!

[Rally Power]

Martin Holmes has been reporting the "mini rally drama" in portuguese autosport site.
He says that the mini/prodrive deal broke down at the end of 2011 but BMW allowed prodrive to enter the minis during the 2012 wrc.

This would give time to BMW find another partner to develop the minis and enter them from 2013. This partner is allegely german but MH doesn´t discart an official inhouse envolvment from BMW.

Somehow this news adjusts to those published by british autosport, the only big difference came from the possible partner origin, germany instead of italy.

Could the choice of BMW's future WRC partner be between XRaid and Italia Motorsport?

[N.O.T]

Martin Holmes has been reporting the "mini rally drama" in portuguese autosport site.
He says that the mini/prodrive deal broke down at the end of 2011 but BMW allowed prodrive to enter the minis during the 2012 wrc.


LOL...

[noel157]

Martin Holmes has been reporting the "mini rally drama" in portuguese autosport site.
He says that the mini/prodrive deal broke down at the end of 2011 but BMW allowed prodrive to enter the minis during the 2012 wrc.

This would give time to BMW find another partner to develop the minis and enter them from 2013. This partner is allegely german but MH doesn´t discart an official inhouse envolvment from BMW.

Somehow this news adjusts to those published by british autosport, the only big difference came from the possible partner origin, germany instead of italy.

Could the choice of BMW's future WRC partner be between XRaid and Italia Motorsport?

I think that's what will happen. Sordo will continue as planned and during that time new arrangements will be made by BMW. May even see Meeke back soon.
Assuming BMW don't cancel everything at the end of the season.

[sollitt]

LOL...I'll see your LOL and raise you two more LOL's

[Maui J.]

Prodrive back to square one again with their rally programme unfortunately.
Time to approach an Eastern Tiger and start fresh. They were influential in turning Subaru into an icon of the sport and helped Fuji Industries sell millions of units.
Great Wall and Geely potential partners IMO.

[A.F.F.]

Matthew Wilson finding a solid sponsor for the next five years. Yes, it can still go down from here.

:laugh:

[bt52b]

Prodrive back to square one again with their rally programme unfortunately.
Time to approach an Eastern Tiger and start fresh. They were influential in turning Subaru into an icon of the sport and helped Fuji Industries sell millions of units.
Great Wall and Geely potential partners IMO.

Unfortunately yes, but they have restored a bit of pride with the excellent progress they are making with the Mini. Will be interesting to see how it goes when it gets the new engine head in March.

[danon]

I have not stopped asking myself what kind of people DO like the shape of this Mini-car.
Do I miss somethin'?!
Am I the only one?

[tfp]

Todt should be balls cut off after Eurosport deal fail.

Hahaha!

It wont happen, he will probably just bugger off back on holiday to India or where ever he was when the NOS deal fell through.

[nerdhan]

As far as I'm concerned the minis will not be missed ........watching those Mini's in action was like watching paint dry.... it seemed to of had the most unimaginative uninspiring paint job imo.... and talking of paint jobs are'nt people sick of seeing the same old car infested with red bull stickers always in the front week in week out....

[noel157]

As far as I'm concerned the minis will not be missed ........watching those Mini's in action was like watching paint dry.... it seemed to of had the most unimaginative uninspiring paint job imo.... and talking of paint jobs are'nt people sick of seeing the same old car infested with red bull stickers always in the front week in week out....

So you don't want to see Mini or Citroen teams in the WRC. That leaves 1 team. Should be an exciting championship then, no?
Suppose it would be the only way Ford could win a title.

You're not really rally fan are you? :)

[Plan9]

I have not stopped asking myself what kind of people DO like the shape of this Mini-car.
Do I miss somethin'?!
Am I the only one?

+1 I feel the same way.

Yes I also do like the shape. In face, its been my favorite rally car for awhile now. I think more people would like Mini if they used the Paceman chassis (that was going to be the next Mini evolution) but now there is trouble I do not know if we will ever see it in rally at all again. I don't know if they will do Sweden or not.
Yes and unlike some people I have found that the leyland influences red and white paint job has been awesome and very distinctive.

[Plan9]

I think that's what will happen. Sordo will continue as planned and during that time new arrangements will be made by BMW. May even see Meeke back soon.
Assuming BMW don't cancel everything at the end of the season.

Interesting comments. However at this stage I think Meeke's goose is cooked!!!

[GigiGalliNo1]

Until VW come into the WRC, MINI are my fav time and it's a sexy looking car too. ;)

[wildsir]

Interesting comments. However at this stage I think Meeke's goose is cooked!!!

If BMW, or any other manufacturer, decide do it themselves, there is no other driver out there better than Meeke help develop the car.

[cali]

As far as I'm concerned the minis will not be missed ........watching those Mini's in action was like watching paint dry.... it seemed to of had the most unimaginative uninspiring paint job imo.... and talking of paint jobs are'nt people sick of seeing the same old car infested with red bull stickers always in the front week in week out....

This is funny stuff .... You're complaining about paint jobs, while the car itself is very competitive and has the best sound of those current 3 WRCars. Seriously? As far as I'm concerned, you will not be missed ;)

[Plan9]

I appreciated what you are say but I think he would rather drive and develop another car. He is 32 I am not sure how much longer he would want to be sidelined???

[noel157]

Interesting comments. However at this stage I think Meeke's goose is cooked!!!

Nowhere near cooked.

[wildsir]

For sure, drivers drive, but its better than paying your way into a false vocation. Form a business point of view, I'd imagine I'd rather do something where I'm valued, rather than a self indulging ego trip. If we all take a step back, WRC is really not that big a deal, especially in its current state.

[BDunnell]

LOL...

OK, then — why not give us the benefit of your superior knowledge? Go on.

[BDunnell]

As far as I'm concerned the minis will not be missed ........watching those Mini's in action was like watching paint dry.... it seemed to of had the most unimaginative uninspiring paint job imo.... and talking of paint jobs are'nt people sick of seeing the same old car infested with red bull stickers always in the front week in week out....

Are you seriously only interested in the paint jobs?

[BDunnell]

Todt should be balls cut off after Eurosport deal fail.

It does beg the question — what is he doing to help save the WRC from this current crisis? I am generally very supportive of the way he's gone about his FIA presidency, but while maintaining a low public profile while beavering away behind the scenes is an excellent strategy most of the time, there are other times when someone in such a position needs to front up and make his views known.

[RS]

So the big announcement should come today. The only question seems to be whether the official programme will continue in-house, with the Italians, or not at all. Would be kind of strange if it continued in house as the issue didn't seem to be a performance one. Can the Italians really find some money that Prodrive couldn't?

[A FONDO]

I have not stopped asking myself what kind of people DO like the shape of this Mini-car.
mainly homos and brittons


It does beg the question — what is he doing to help save the WRC from this current crisis? I am generally very supportive of the way he's gone about his FIA presidency, but while maintaining a low public profile while beavering away behind the scenes is an excellent strategy most of the time, there are other times when someone in such a position needs to front up and make his views known.
He gave a huge interview in Monte Carlo with his views for the next 5 years, what else do you want?!

[AndyRAC]

One does wonder what is going on, partucularly at Prodrive. If BMW/Mini contract out to the Italian company – were are they getting the finance from? Or have BMW provided enough........and there are other reasons?
Anyway, Motorsport now makes up a small percentage of Prodrive’s business....they have fingers in all kinds of pies in the Motor industry....
All I will say, the Mini has proved a good car – 3 podiums, fastest times – and still can’t find a main sponsor; just like Ford. A pretty damning indictment of the WRC....

[rallyfiend]

One does wonder what is going on, partucularly at Prodrive. If BMW/Mini contract out to the Italian company – were are they getting the finance from? Or have BMW provided enough........and there are other reasons?
Anyway, Motorsport now makes up a small percentage of Prodrive’s business....they have fingers in all kinds of pies in the Motor industry....
All I will say, the Mini has proved a good car – 3 podiums, fastest times – and still can’t find a main sponsor; just like Ford. A pretty damning indictment of the WRC....

If DR is looking for the rumoured €15 mil in sponsorship, then one can understand why he hasn't found anything!

[BDunnell]

mainly homos and brittons

Er... do we consider this sort of remark acceptable?

[BDunnell]

All I will say, the Mini has proved a good car – 3 podiums, fastest times – and still can’t find a main sponsor; just like Ford. A pretty damning indictment of the WRC....

And, surely, of BMW's common sense? What more do they want?

[Viking]

I have not stopped asking myself what kind of people DO like the shape of this Mini-car.
Do I miss somethin'?!
Am I the only one?

Minis are for girls... :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PoIllG9s0A&feature=youtu.be

[A FONDO]

This "Prodrive Mini" project wasnt going any further than 3-4 occasional podiums per season anyway. Because, first of all, preparation by private company with greedy directors, mainly famous with epic fails in the last 10 years. Also, Sordo and Mike are just middle class drivers amongst so many new promising WRC regulars like Attiyah, Neuville, Tanak, Mikelsen (needless to speak about the three factory teams which also became stronger). BMW should better spend some truckloads of money and make a really strong team or totally give up the idea of creating offroad image for this gayish car. They had enough disgrace in Dakar and WTCC.

[AndyRAC]

And, surely, of BMW's common sense? What more do they want?

Exactly!! Yet BMW have been getting some probably unfair criticism – Does anybody know the full story? I thought the agreement was for BMW to fund building, testing and development for the first year. After that Prodrive were on their own – relying on sponsorship and sales.

[noel157]

This "Prodrive Mini" project wasnt going any further than 3-4 occasional podiums per season anyway. Because, first of all, preparation by private company with greedy directors, mainly famous with epic fails in the last 10 years. Also, Sordo and Mike are just middle class drivers amongst so many new promising WRC regulars like Attiyah, Neuville, Tanak, Mikelsen (needless to speak about the three factory teams which also became stronger). BMW should better spend some truckloads of money and make a really strong team or totally give up the idea of creating offroad image for this gayish car. They had enough disgrace in Dakar and WTCC.

Ok, who is "Mike"? Attiyah is a "WRC regular" and "new" and "promising"? PWRC regular maybe some years ago but he's no spring chicken.
And what's with all your homophobic posts? I think you have issues.
Where's Brother John when you actually need him?

[noel157]

Exactly!! Yet BMW have been getting some probably unfair criticism – Does anybody know the full story? I thought the agreement was for BMW to fund building, testing and development for the first year. After that Prodrive were on their own – relying on sponsorship and sales.

Hard to know what's going on but as you say the lack of funding by Prodrive seems to be the main problem.

[Wasted Talent]

Er... do we consider this sort of remark acceptable?

Agreed, it's not just Britons who like the Mini, far more are exported that bought here

WT

[milly]

Hard to know what's going on but as you say the lack of funding by Prodrive seems to be the main problem.

Agree with this - plus the whole story about the Prodrive approach to BMW isn't in the public domain.

DR is known for taking big, big risks - and usually they come off but sometimes (Aston Martin AMR One....) they don't. He gambled on doing a basic-funding deal with BMW for Year 1, then pushing them into more funding for a full WRC program afterwards.

However, BMW is now spending big time on DTM - and doesn't see the investment value in WRC's media package (of which DR was the architect when he bought ISC from Bernie all those years ago!).

What goes around, comes around.......

[PLuto]

So the big announcement should come today. The only question seems to be whether the official programme will continue in-house, with the Italians, or not at all. Would be kind of strange if it continued in house as the issue didn't seem to be a performance one. Can the Italians really find some money that Prodrive couldn't?

I think there will be no announcement...

[RS]

I think there will be no announcement...

BMW changed their minds or they will just let things take their natural course?

[PLuto]

I think that from beginning there were no plan for any official announcement, I think it was only usual media rumour. (but only my opinion, dont trust me :)

[Fly]

Sandell confirmed for Sweden next to Sordo, Prodrive announced.

AUTOhebdo.fr | Sandell avec Mini pour la Suède (http://www.autohebdo.fr/rallye/wrc/breve-26-1-21228/030212-sandell-avec-mini-pour-la-suede?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook)

[rallyfiend]

I think that from beginning there were no plan for any official announcement, I think it was only usual media rumour. (but only my opinion, dont trust me :)

That there is no official announcement doesn't mean the action isn't / hasn't been taken.

Why would BMW want to unecessarily publicise the failure of a commercial relationship to the general public / media?

I can't imagine Prodrive would!

[TyPat107]

I think there will be no announcement...

Or it was made up to sell more "news"?

[Miika]

If the project is shut down, Minis missing from the starting line will be announcement enough.

[Barreis]

How could that be possible when Sandell is paying his seat?!

[Bazza2541]

If BMW were to pull their association with Prodrive, and Prodrive then chose to go it alone, what happens to homologation?

[RS]

If BMW were to pull their association with Prodrive, and Prodrive then chose to go it alone, what happens to homologation?

I think current homologations remain valid but a manufacturer has to be the one to submit new ones.

[Allyc85]

As far as I'm concerned the minis will not be missed ........watching those Mini's in action was like watching paint dry.... it seemed to of had the most unimaginative uninspiring paint job imo.... and talking of paint jobs are'nt people sick of seeing the same old car infested with red bull stickers always in the front week in week out....

So you base your interest in a sport on paint jobs? Seriously what is it with this forum?

[Wasted Talent]

So you base your interest in a sport on paint jobs? Seriously what is it with this forum?

Need to edit this again Ally ..... not harsh enough!

WT

[Allyc85]

I would but I dont want any more points against my account :laugh:

[SubaruNorway]

Anyone knocking on Mini has no clue, i had some of the best memories watching that live last year. Hearing it coming down the hill and seeing it for the first time at the Top Gear shoot in Lillehammer at midnight was very special :)

[Miika]

Announcement due next week on future of Prodrive's WRC Mini future - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97312)

[Barreis]

Mini registered for championship so we will watch them this season.

[Miika]

Mini registered for championship so we will watch them this season.

Not from TV we won´t.




.. or is it too soon to joke about this thing just yet?

[PLuto]

Mini registered for championship so we will watch them this season.

Mini is registered, but with special exceptions (lower number of events)

[A.F.F.]

I just don't get it. We have seen far too many worse enterings from different teams or manufacturers. Mini has been very good due Sordo's tarmac rally results. I'm amazed that won't help Prodrive to get the needed funding. Or am I missing something else here?

[mousti]

They're doing something wrong. The offers they give to sponsors must be horrible or they only want one big sponsor. 5 medium sponsors is better than almost no sponsoring.

[Rallyper]

They're doing something wrong. The offers they give to sponsors must be horrible or they only want one big sponsor. 5 medium sponsors is better than almost no sponsoring.

I think all the s''' talking about sponsors when you managing a so called factoryteam is b''l.

Prodrive needs support from the factory they are helping. M-sport cannot work without Ford. VW is a factory team. Citroen also. Why do you guys think one or five sponsors would help Mini/Prodrive. It´s BMW who has to decide wheather they should be a part of WRC or not. Else Mini and Prodrive is gone sooner or later.

[mousti]

Someone said to me this evening they will hand the project to ralliart :s .

[rallyfiend]

I think all the s''' talking about sponsors when you managing a so called factoryteam is b''l.

Prodrive needs support from the factory they are helping. M-sport cannot work without Ford. VW is a factory team. Citroen also. Why do you guys think one or five sponsors would help Mini/Prodrive. It´s BMW who has to decide wheather they should be a part of WRC or not. Else Mini and Prodrive is gone sooner or later.

In an ideal world, yes that would be best.

But that is clearly not what DR and Prodrive sold to BMW. They have failed in their end of the bargain, so why should BMW 'reward' them for that by giving them more cash?

[PLuto]

Everything is about agreements on the beginning. BMW and Prodrive started this project in specific conditions, each side was responsible for their part of the job. BMW done all what they promised, next step is on side of Prodrive...

[Rallyper]

In an ideal world, yes that would be best.

But that is clearly not what DR and Prodrive sold to BMW. They have failed in their end of the bargain, so why should BMW 'reward' them for that by giving them more cash?

I dont know but BMW still own the project, dont they? And they could very well go on with the project with another partner. It´s not only Prodrive building rallycars.

[Plan9]

Sandell confirmed for Sweden next to Sordo, Prodrive announced.

AUTOhebdo.fr | Sandell avec Mini pour la Suède (http://www.autohebdo.fr/rallye/wrc/breve-26-1-21228/030212-sandell-avec-mini-pour-la-suede?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook)

Any word on other events he will do the in 52 car? I bet he may be getting a bit worried now.

[F1boat]

It will be a shame if we Mini leaves :( But BMW is like this, I remember their attitude in F1, complete clowns IMO.

[Fly_Half]

I wouldn't be surprised if this situation also has something to do with VW entering next year, with what will be a strong driver line-up and a mahoosive budget. Munich won't want their asses kicked by what they see as a 'lesser' brand.

Obviously that isn't the sole reason, but personally I think it may be a contributing factor...

[Brother John]

I just don't get it. We have seen far too many worse enterings from different teams or manufacturers. Mini has been very good due Sordo's tarmac rally results. I'm amazed that won't help Prodrive to get the needed funding. Or am I missing something else here?

Maybe the economy problem for many companies do not make it easy to sponsor sport?

[Rally Power]

Motorsport Italia substitui Prodrive com MINI oficiais no WRC - Autosport.pt (http://autosport.aeiou.pt/gen.pl?p=stories&op=view&fokey=as.stories/103114)

Breaking news from Martin Holmes on autosport.pt

Total and immediate split on BMW/Prodrive partnership.

Italia Motorsport gets official MINI status to manage official WRC enters.

Future plans of development will probably continue with german structure.

[manta400]

if that is the case what happens to the drivers?

[F1boat]

If Mini continues to race, no problem for me.

[danon]

Mini pizza or pasta? - Neither. Basta! :D

[Tom206wrc]

if that is the case what happens to the drivers?


And what happens to PRODRIVE :confused:

[Barreis]

Who cares.

[mousti]

And what happens to PRODRIVE :confused:
Surviving..

[Wasted Talent]

Who cares.

Quite a few people there working on this project

WT

[A FONDO]

if that is the case what happens to the drivers?
Araujo and Nobre factory drivers :D with Sordo as substitute for tarmac :D

[Dirk]

Motorsport Italia substitui Prodrive com MINI oficiais no WRC - Autosport.pt (http://autosport.aeiou.pt/gen.pl?p=stories&op=view&fokey=as.stories/103114)

Breaking news from Martin Holmes on autosport.pt

Total and immediate split on BMW/Prodrive partnership.

Italia Motorsport gets official MINI status to manage official WRC enters.

Future plans of development will probably continue with german structure.

Does that article really say that? I cannot find the part that says "Total and immediate split on BMW/Prodrive partnership", or anything similar.

People are reading too much into this half-baked, poorly-researched story from Autosport.

If Prodrive stopped working with BMW on Monday then I suspect Motorsport Italia could not get to the end of the season.

[N.O.T]

you give too much credit to things reported by no credible source....

[JAM]

you give too much credit to things reported by no credible source....

You're right. Too much people reading what you are writing :D

Let's wait and see the terms of the delivery of Mini WRT to Motorsport Itália. This could be a temporary solution before finding the desired workgroup to develop Mini WRC. After that Motorsport Itália could be the satelite team to privateers.

[noel157]

you give too much credit to things reported by no credible source....

If Holmes is not a creditable what do you think is the actual situation?

[rallyfiend]

If Holmes is not a creditable what do you think is the actual situation?

Indeed. Will you apologise when he turns out to be 100% correct?

[mousti]

I heard also the same that motorsport Italia is in pole position to take it over soon.. Oh well let's wait and see

Verstuurd van mijn SK17i met Tapatalk

[noel157]

Indeed. Will you apologise when he turns out to be 100% correct?

Why are directing this at me?

[rallyfiend]

Why are directing this at me?

Was definitely directed at our resident troll.

[noel157]

Was definitely directed at our resident troll.

Hmmmm, ok. :)

Can't wait until we see his accurate and informed reply.

[bluuford]

There are so much rumors, so much policy, so much false and little bit truth in every talk we can hear. Holmes? His articles and analyses have been pretty poor in last year, do not get me wrong, this is my personal opinion. I have been following the sport for years and his analyses as well. Usually people get better with experience, not this time. What is the reason?
I think that we have to be very careful with his last analyses and articles. Remember, who he was working for? GPWeek. GPWeek belonged to who? Antonov and NOS? Where are they now?
What about BMW and Prodrive? The one who can make new homologations is manufacturer and it is BMW if I am not mistaken? So, actually BMW should have full control on every homolgation that Prodrive does. Maybe Prodrive does not want to reveal all invetions to BMW that they have found? Or they think that the price is not right? Maybe Prodrive has another manufacturer on sight and they are in position to ask more from BMW (because they have some kind of back-up door?)?
Things are complicated on the BMW side as well. They have lot of resources, they are getting pretty good results from Prodrive but maybe having seen the homologations from Prodrive, they know that they can do it inhouse as well? Maybe they know that Prodrive have someone knocking on their door to develop another car? Now keeping in mind the fact that BMW should share his secrets with Prodrive to make minis engine and etc as good as possible? Think about the places where Prodrive and BMW might become challangers to each other?
And all this TV stuff? I am not sure that Eurosport is the on who wants to have more Asian or American events. Look at IRC calendar. And what does the name Euro tells you?

That is approximately 14 questions and approximatelty one poor anwer. Lets see, faster we get the anwer, better it is for the sport.

[Rally Power]

Does that article really say that? I cannot find the part that says "Total and immediate split on BMW/Prodrive partnership", or anything similar.

People are reading too much into this half-baked, poorly-researched story from Autosport.

If Prodrive stopped working with BMW on Monday then I suspect Motorsport Italia could not get to the end of the season.

No Dirk, nobody is reading too much from this story...the title speaks for itself: "Motorsport Italia replaces Prodrive with oficial Minis on WRC"!

And the story could only be considered half-baked or poorly reserched if you have'nt read previous reports of Martin Holmes about this Mini crisis and the eminent breakup of the Mini/Prodrive deal.

[Miika]

Is the Prodrive Mini team already in Sweden, I got the impression they were planning to do some testing before the event there? Must be confusing times there, if the BMW announcement is coming up within the next few days.

EDIT: Looking at the testing thread, apparently they are there.

[Le NaRcX]

Sordo's contract is with Prodrive not with Mini as he said in an interview just before the start of Montecarlo:

"I had to give up 30% of my salary" (http://www.marca.com/2012/01/18/motor/rallies/1326881178.html) (Spanish)

[Dirk]

No Dirk, nobody is reading too much from this story...the title speaks for itself: "Motorsport Italia replaces Prodrive with oficial Minis on WRC"!

And the story could only be considered half-baked or poorly reserched if you have'nt read previous reports of Martin Holmes about this Mini crisis and the eminent breakup of the Mini/Prodrive deal.

Yes, the title speaks for itself, and may be its true. I never said Motorsport Italia is not making an arrangement with BMW. But this is different to a "Total and immediate split on BMW/Prodrive partnership" - this is not in the story, and this is where people are guessing.

I was lucky to have a tour of Prodrive last year. Who makes the cars? Who makes the parts? Who repairs bodyshells? Who reconditions gearboxes? Who rebuilds the engines? Do Motorsport Italia have a spare car/shell? I doubt it. If one is destroyed in Sweden, Mexico, Portugal...oh dear. "Total and immediate split" looks impossible, don't you agree?

[Plan9]

It gets worse, according to the article below, X-Raid, ORECA or Motorsport Italia will take over the program from Prodrive. This seems mad none of teh above have the experience and know-how to run a top flight WRC team. I know X-Raid won Dakar but I am not sure how much faith we can put in that as a comparison with Prodrive. Taking the program in-house has not been mentioned.

MaxRally | News | Mini and Prodrive on verge of split (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/mini_and_prodrive_on_verge_of_split/)

[noel157]

It gets worse, according to the article below, X-Raid, ORECA or Motorsport Italia will take over the program from Prodrive. This seems mad none of teh above have the experience and know-how to run a top flight WRC team. I know X-Raid won Dakar but I am not sure how much faith we can put in that as a comparison with Prodrive. Taking the program in-house has not been mentioned.

MaxRally | News | Mini and Prodrive on verge of split (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/mini_and_prodrive_on_verge_of_split/)

Don't think Max-Rally quite have a handle on the situation. Much of what has been written is inaccurate.

[Rally Power]

Yes, the title speaks for itself, and may be its true. I never said Motorsport Italia is not making an arrangement with BMW. But this is different to a "Total and immediate split on BMW/Prodrive partnership" - this is not in the story, and this is where people are guessing.

I was lucky to have a tour of Prodrive last year. Who makes the cars? Who makes the parts? Who repairs bodyshells? Who reconditions gearboxes? Who rebuilds the engines? Do Motorsport Italia have a spare car/shell? I doubt it. If one is destroyed in Sweden, Mexico, Portugal...oh dear. "Total and immediate split" looks impossible, don't you agree?

Very few things looks impossible in todays world...yesterday MH has already reported the prodrive split saying: "(...)sources inside Prodrive could have admited that the oficial Mini John Cooper Works runing and development deal has come to an end(...)"
Surely MH wouldn't get so far only by guessing...
WRC: Negociações com Eurosport falham e MINI ultima separação da Prodrive - Autosport.pt (http://autosport.aeiou.pt/gen.pl?p=stories&op=view&fokey=as.stories/103113)

This Mini mess is obviously sad, mostly regarding Prodrive rally tradition, but at the end of the day what's really interesting about all this news it's the perceptible will of BMW/Mini to stay in WRC.

To me it's all it matters to be confirmed.

[EightGear]

As long as Mini continues I am happy. Of course I would have liked to see the whole project become a succes, but given the current situation I am more than happy to see Mini continue. BMW taking the project in house would be best but I don't see that happen.
WRC just absolutely can not afford to lose Mini as a manufacturer.

[A.F.F.]

Is the Prodrive Mini team already in Sweden, I got the impression they were planning to do some testing before the event there? Must be confusing times there, if the BMW announcement is coming up within the next few days.

EDIT: Looking at the testing thread, apparently they are there.

Remember how Mitsubishi left the building!! Harri was testing for upcoming rally when the announcement came :mark:

[danon]

Deeply appreciate the efforts of all the people behind the Mini project
but let's face it - the BMW galaxy set the rules.

And BMW can make it with or without Mini, Maxi or even a Taxi.

Get real, Mini!
Do it on your own.
Show the MAXI part of your side.

[tfp]

As long as Mini continues I am happy. Of course I would have liked to see the whole project become a succes, but given the current situation I am more than happy to see Mini continue. BMW taking the project in house would be best but I don't see that happen.
WRC just absolutely can not afford to lose Mini as a manufacturer.

Youre right, I guess we should consider ourselves lucky that there is a different car competing in the WRC class, rather than just Citroen all of the time (Citroen might as well be on their own the way the results are at the minute, a bit like Subaru before they left...)

[Red bull]

Sordo to remain with prodrive WRC A FULL 2012 | RallyReportWRC (http://www.rallyreportwrc.com/2012/02/03/wrc-a-full-2012-11/)

[bluuford]

"Keep" must be one of the most common word in FB:-) Keep Mini in the WRC | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/KeepMiniInWrc)

[wildsir]

14 questions, but only one of any consequence. Either BMW /Prodrive split or not.

[RAS007]

Ill Wind Blows for BMW on Storm Promotion - Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/europe/ill-wind-blows-for-bmw-on-storm-promotion-02022012.html)

More bad news for BMW/Mini.

[JAM]

It gets worse, according to the article below, X-Raid, ORECA or Motorsport Italia will take over the program from Prodrive. This seems mad none of teh above have the experience and know-how to run a top flight WRC team. I know X-Raid won Dakar but I am not sure how much faith we can put in that as a comparison with Prodrive. Taking the program in-house has not been mentioned.

MaxRally | News | Mini and Prodrive on verge of split (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/mini_and_prodrive_on_verge_of_split/)


Mario Fornaris worked with Ralliart Italy until recently. Ralliart Italy has experience in assisting cars in the WRC.

X-raid has Sven Quandt that is not an unknow person on the WRC scene.

If BMW will fund the project as VW is doing, then any of these teams could make a good work. With money, if you don't have the technicias, you hire them.

[Plan9]

+1 I agree.

I was thinking X-Raid could be a good option (of course BMW taking it in-house like VW is probably the safest now they can't work with Prodrive). After all they basically are just using reformatted BMW SUV's for dakar and are using their engines so they are already quite well versed in the way BMW does business.

It will also be interesting to see if BMW allows Prodrive to run the cars for the rest of the year.

[Mirek]

Mario Fornaris worked with Ralliart Italy until recently. Ralliart Italy has experience in assisting cars in the WRC.

X-raid has Sven Quandt that is not an unknow person on the WRC scene.

If BMW will fund the project as VW is doing, then any of these teams could make a good work. With money, if you don't have the technicias, you hire them.

In last couple of years Fornaris was also working for Škoda.

[BDunnell]

Deeply appreciate the efforts of all the people behind the Mini project
but let's face it - the BMW galaxy set the rules.

And BMW can make it with or without Mini, Maxi or even a Taxi.

And your evidence for this is?

[JAM]

In last couple of years Fornaris was also working for Škoda.

Skoda Motorsport CZ or Skoda Itália? I think it was in 2010 he was involved with Skoda Itália

[Mirek]

Skoda Motorsport CZ or Skoda Itália? I think it was in 2010 he was involved with Skoda Itália

Škoda Motorsport as well. I'm not sure if he is still involved but for sure he has been providing some kind of technical consultancy for Fabia S2000 project since its beginning.

[JAM]

Škoda Motorsport as well. I'm not sure if he is still involved but for sure he has been providing some kind of technical consultancy for Fabia S2000 project since its beginning.

In 2009 he still was Ralliart Italy shareholder and woking with the team as technical coordinator. After that don't know what he did.

About the changes at Mini, if there's money from Mini, there are some good structures that could do the job. But i look and X-raid by obvious reasons

[dimviii]

In 2009 he still was Ralliart Italy shareholder and woking with the team as technical coordinator. After that don't know what he did.

About the changes at Mini, if there's money from Mini, there are some good structures that could do the job. But i look and X-raid by obvious reasons

he worked for R4 kits for evo too.

[Miika]

Statement from the MINI World Rally Team

http://www.minimotorsport.com/en/news/mini_to_follow_new_path_in_the_fia_wrc

"After Dani Sordo (ES) and Carlos del Barrio (ES) finished second on the return of the brand to the legendary Monte Carlo Rally, the direction has now been set for a long-term MINI presence in the FIA World Rally Championship (WRC): On Thursday 2 February, the Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile (FIA) accepted a two-car manufacturer entry by WRC Team MINI Portugal into the 2012 FIA World Rally Championship for Manufacturers. As a consequence MINI will complete the homologation for the MINI John Cooper Works WRC. The WRC Team MINI Portugal - consisting of Armindo Araújo (PT) and his co-driver Miguel Ramalho (PT), as well as Paulo Nobre (BR) and co-driver Edu Paula (BR) - will contest the remaining 12 events of the 2012 FIA World Rally Championship.

This long-term homologation ensures that the MINI John Cooper Works WRC can be used in the premier league of rallying, and other series in accordance with FIA regulations, up to and including 2018. The cooperation with Prodrive will be put on a new basis. Prodrive remains responsible for the construction and support of MINI John Cooper Works WRC customer vehicles, and will continue to work with the BMW Group on the further development of the car. The WRC Team, run by Prodrive, will from now on start as a works-supported private team.

“I am delighted that the future of MINI in the WRC has been secured on a long-term basis,” said Dr. Kay Segler, Senior Vice President MINI Business Coordination and Brand Management. “We remain convinced that the sport of rallying is perfectly suited to our brand. The situation we now find ourselves in means the MINI Motorsport family can, and will, continue to grow on the rally scene. With three podiums from just seven starts in the world championship, the MINI John Cooper Works WRC has already emphatically proven its potential. I am confident that our customer teams around the world will continue to thrill MINI fans with this car over the coming years. The FIA was just as interested in the long-term presence of the MINI brand in the WRC as we were, and was actively involved in finding a constructive solution. We are grateful for the good cooperation and the understanding it has shown us.”

Segler added: “With its great enthusiasm and hard work, the Prodrive team has played a major role in the remarkable sporting success we have achieved on our initial outings with the MINI John Cooper Works WRC. On behalf of MINI Motorsport, I would like to thank everyone at Prodrive for their efforts so far and we look forward to working with them in support of our MINI John Cooper Works WRC customers in the future.”

[TyPat107]

So what does that mean? Is pro drive getting more support from mini now?

[rallyfiend]

Well, that's one of the more confusing public statements I've ever read!

[J.Lindstroem]

So once of a sudden there is good news?

[Miika]

I´m not sure what that means. I guess it means there still isn´t any money and that the #1 car of the Prodrive MINI team will turn into a prostitute as well? Or no?

EDIT: Autosport´s take on the matter: "Prodrive loses status as Mini's factory World Rally team"

[dimviii]

So what does that mean? Is pro drive getting more support from mini now?

not at all support.Thats why he says....''The WRC Team, run by Prodrive, will from now on start as a works-supported private team''

They are just trying to don t loose their customers,for this year.
At first paragraph if i understant correct they are going to use as the ''2nd'' car they have to enter as a works team,the mini from Araujo or Nobre? it is not clear why they mention these two privateers after the sentence....''(FIA) accepted a two-car manufacturer entry by WRC Team MINI Portugal into the 2012 FIA World Rally Championship for Manufacturers.''

[Arwel Davies]

The way I read that is that Dani Sordo loses his seat aswell as Kris Meeke and that Mini will be represented in the WRC by Araujo and Nobre with Prodrive assisting with the running of the cars. If that is the case, what a kick in the balls.

[alleskids]

I read it as Armindo Araujo WRT and Palmeirinha Rally are combining their forces and become WRC Team MINI Portugal

No Mini WRC Team
but WRC Team Mini Portugal.

RalliArt Italy/Motorsport Italy taking over the role of Prodrive as M1 team and securing BMW/Mini can do homologations and have a legal car for FIA and MT2 and regional series

[gtimad73]

im confused. but at least mini are in the wrc for a few years

[F1boat]

The Autosport article is highly informative. It seems that Mini will stay in the championship which is great news. It would have been very sad to lose such an iconic marque only an year after its return to the sport.

[dimviii]

The way I read that is that Dani Sordo loses his seat aswell as Kris Meeke and that Mini will be represented in the WRC by Araujo and Nobre with Prodrive assisting with the running of the cars. If that is the case, what a kick in the balls.

you seem to be right unfortunately.
Their communication is for clowns btw.
Pitty for Sordo..

[A FONDO]

Prodrive will retain responsibility for construction and support of Mini John Cooper Works WRC customer cars, while working with the BMW Group on the further development of the carfurther but until?? end of the season or more?? this is the most important!!!!

[J.Lindstroem]

So no more Sordo in Wrc?

[bretddog]

https://www.press.bmwgroup-sport.com/pressclub/p/sp/pressDetail.html?outputChannelId=52&id=T0124762EN&left_menu_item=node__5548

[J.Lindstroem]

This sucks. Suppose there will be no more podiums for Mini this year...

[JAM]

It means that until the end of the year Armindo Araújo and Paulo Nobre will be the official Mini drivers with cars assisted by Motorsport Itália.

Prodrive stay responsible for developments and assist Mini costumers.

No word about Sordo, neither about when MINI will have a real oficial team on the WRC.

These guys are insane :eek:

[gtimad73]

bit strange how prodrive will keep developing the car for another company.

[alleskids]

Prodrive/Sordo/Meeke have no money to run a Mini factory team.
Motorsport Italy/Araujo/Nobre do have the money and they drive Mini's. so BMW is giving them the label Factory M1 team.

[J.Lindstroem]

And what about Prodrive? I guess they can't be to proud of this as they sound like. David Richards backing up two drivers who can't even get into the top 10. Sucks!

[EightGear]

Very confusing, but I think Sordo will stay at Pro Drive, who will continue this season but not as official manufacturer entry.

Araujo and Nobre factory drivers, I'm laughing out VERY loud here at the moment.

[dimviii]

https://www.press.bmwgroup-sport.com/pressclub/p/sp/pressDetail.html?outputChannelId=52&id=T0124762EN&left_menu_item=node__5548

what a clowns.....and i am talking about both sides of this joke.

[Karukera]

I was waiting for a BMW statement, this one is unexpected, to say the least.