Prodrive Mini WRC

[FabiaFan]

Meeke won't start with S2000 spec. but WRC. Oliveira with S2000 only in first few events than also with WRC upgrade. But anyway it may happen that S2000 car wins WRC event but the probability is very low.
...would be the first time since the 2wd Xsara, a car of a lower class, won a WRC event... I was thinking about such a possibility even for Sweden already - just imagine: heavy snow conditions, the Finns with problems with their all-new WRC Fiestas and French drivers just outpaced by...hmm...let's say local P.G.A. in a Fabia S2000?!? Theoretically can happen!!!

[Mirek]

I don't think that it can happen with current N/A S2000. The difference in speed to new WRC will be too big but with 1.6T S2000 it may be very small if rules stay like they are in the moment.

[JAM]

You will excuse me, but since the beginning i have doubts in believe that the SP will be a S2000 with a 1.6T engine...

And i still have all the doubts!

The future is WRC and WRC SP... there's no room to S2000.

The WRC SP is a downgraded WRC, the homologation come form the WRC, not from a new S2000.

How can we have a Mini S2000? :eek:

[RICARDO75]

You will excuse me, but since the beginning i have doubts in believe that the SP will be a S2000 with a 1.6T engine...

And i still have all the doubts!

The future is WRC and WRC SP... there's no room to S2000.

The WRC SP is a downgraded WRC, the homologation come form the WRC, not from a new S2000.

How can we have a Mini S2000? :eek:

The new wrc cars are based on the S2000. The biggest diference is the 1600 turbo engine and the new S2000 models must be homologated with the same engine capacity, for example, the new Mini and the future Skoda that is already on development work.
The Super Production cars, are the new S2000.

[JAM]

The new wrc cars are based on the S2000. The biggest diference is the 1600 turbo engine and the new S2000 models must be homologated with the same engine capacity, for example, the new Mini and the future Skoda that is already on development work.
The Super Production cars, are the new S2000.

A S2000 is a 2 litre engine car.

Why call S2000 to a 1.6l engine car? There will be no Mini S2000.

Today someone talked to me about this, and told me that everybody is wrong... and is someone that you know :D

[RICARDO75]

I don't know if they will be called S2000 but the new homologations for this cars will be the with 1600cc engine.
I think the "Super Production" was mentioned on the Prodrive website and not on FIA

[Josti]

Sordo confirmed.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88814

[Hartusvuori]

Sordo confirmed.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88814

Has there been info what are the six or so events Prodrive Mini will do? Starting with Sardegna, but then onwards...?

[Mirek]

A S2000 is a 2 litre engine car.

Why call S2000 to a 1.6l engine car? There will be no Mini S2000.

Today someone talked to me about this, and told me that everybody is wrong... and is someone that you know :D


I have to tell You that actually You are wrong. The thing is a bit confusing (more than just a bit :) ).

What Prodrive calls SuperProduction in PR materials of Mini is in fact S2000 1.6T (official FIA name for this class - see 2011 FIA App.J or Regional championships rules).

That's what comes to names, now about machinery. S2000 1.6T (or SP if You like) is practically same car is S2000 2.0 N/A except engine and it's devices (like intercooler). Even transmission is same (just new gear ratios).

And now to make it even more confusing we have WRC cars which are almost same too. They only have new aero and brake package and different engine flywheel. But otherwise these cars are same (at least their rules are exactly same - again see 2011 App.J).

So we have 3 different cars which are more or less S2000 - 2.0 N/A S2000, 1.6T S2000 and WRC.

Can You understand that now? :)


PS Sorry for not answering Your PM. I decided to answer here so that other confused people can see that too.

[Rallyper]

I have to tell You that actually You are wrong. The thing is a bit confusing (more than just a bit :) ).

What Prodrive calls SuperProduction in PR materials of Mini is in fact S2000 1.6T (official FIA name for this class - see 2011 FIA App.J or Regional championships rules).

That's what comes to names, now about machinery. S2000 1.6T (or SP if You like) is practically same car is S2000 2.0 N/A except engine and it's devices (like intercooler). Even transmission is same (just new gear ratios).

And now to make it even more confusing we have WRC cars which are almost same too. They only have new aero and brake package and different engine flywheel. But otherwise these cars are same (at least their rules are exactly same - again see 2011 App.J).

So we have 3 different cars which are more or less S2000 - 2.0 N/A S2000, 1.6T S2000 and WRC.

Can You understand that now? :)


PS Sorry for not answering Your PM. I decided to answer here so that other confused people can see that too.

That´s what I understood also, and in a another topic I talked about all the confusion of new classes that is.

How can we expect the media and public to understand the sport, when we, the very much rallyidiots not understand the rules?? :confused: :confused:

[modri dirkac]

I have to tell You that actually You are wrong. The thing is a bit confusing (more than just a bit :) ).

What Prodrive calls SuperProduction in PR materials of Mini is in fact S2000 1.6T (official FIA name for this class - see 2011 FIA App.J or Regional championships rules).

That's what comes to names, now about machinery. S2000 1.6T (or SP if You like) is practically same car is S2000 2.0 N/A except engine and it's devices (like intercooler). Even transmission is same (just new gear ratios).

And now to make it even more confusing we have WRC cars which are almost same too. They only have new aero and brake package and different engine flywheel. But otherwise these cars are same (at least their rules are exactly same - again see 2011 App.J).

So we have 3 different cars which are more or less S2000 - 2.0 N/A S2000, 1.6T S2000 and WRC.

Can You understand that now? :)


PS Sorry for not answering Your PM. I decided to answer here so that other confused people can see that too.

Mirek, I compered the brakes of Fiesta S2000 (N/A 2.000) and DS3 1.6T WRC and they are the same size. So if press material is wrong or is wrong the whole PR about diferences between ordinary S2000 and new WRC. They are different only between SP and WRC or they are the same size? :confused:
My opinion about Superproduction: WTF? :arrows:

[alleskids]

To keep things clear on the forum, we should talk of:
S20000 for the old, pre 1.1.2011 cars
WRCars for the 2011 WRCars
and SP for the 1.6t S2000's homologated from 1.1.2011

the SP is a WRCar wolf disguised as a S2000 sheep :)


so far, only 2 man have plans with SP cars: Daniel Oliviere with the Mini Countryman SP in the Portugal Rally, and Nasser Al Attiyah with a Mini Countryman SP winning back his MERC title. It could be a Fiesta SP if Ford is ready in time, but only a SP will stand for Al Attiyah in 2011 MERC.

[Mirek]

Mirek, I compered the brakes of Fiesta S2000 (N/A 2.000) and DS3 1.6T WRC and they are the same size. So if press material is wrong or is wrong the whole PR about diferences between ordinary S2000 and new WRC. :confused:
My opinion about Superproduction: WTF? :arrows:

Unfortunately exact differences in brake kit are not part of App.J. They are written in homologation regulations which are not available to public. But for sure there are more ways to differ brake than just disc diameter (like other dimensions, water cooling etc.).

[OldF]

By the article in GP Week, WRC cars have water-cooled brakes.

http://mag.gpweek.com/?iid=41840 (page 46)

[JAM]

To keep things clear on the forum, we should talk of:
S20000 for the old, pre 1.1.2011 cars
WRCars for the 2011 WRCars
and SP for the 1.6t S2000's homologated from 1.1.2011

the SP is a WRCar wolf disguised as a S2000 sheep :)


My doubt, and not only a doubt from me is:

Why everybody is calling the new cars as S2000? It's wrong.

Why a S2000 car is called S2000? Because it has a 2000cc engine.

Why call S2000 to a new car when it was born as a WRC and has a 1.6T engine? Can't understand.

This is simple.

We have:
WRC cars
SP Cars
S2000 cars
and S2000 with 1.6T engine cars

It's simple :D

[morganmilan]

My doubt, and not only a doubt from me is:

Why everybody is calling the new cars as S2000? It's wrong.

Why a S2000 car is called S2000? Because it has a 2000cc engine.

Why call S2000 to a new car when it was born as a WRC and has a 1.6T engine? Can't understand.

This is simple.

We have:
WRC cars
SP Cars
S2000 cars
and S2000 with 1.6T engine cars

It's simple :D
But "SP cars" and "S2000 with 1.6 T engine cars" are the same

[Livewireshock]

Maybe the new class should be called Turbo 1600 or T1600 for short.

Concise and simple for any spectator to understand and comprehend. Super Production is vague, especially on a car that is nothing remotely like a production model.

[Brother John]

Just blame the FIA for al that stupid names! :p
Even we the rally fans will not understand which type of car we see on the stages! :s mokin:

[manta400]

ehh its a prodrive wrc thread and you guys are talking away of the mark!! can we get back to the wrc?

[JAM]

ehh its a prodrive wrc thread and you guys are talking away of the mark!! can we get back to the wrc?


When wrc.com says that Daniel Oliveira will run a Mini Countryman with S2000 spec on the rally of Portugal, this discussion is usefull.

What Mini will be that?

[polo10]

JAM did you forget that FIA says that after 1/1/2011 you can only homologate s2000 with 1.6 t engine..That is it,that is the Mini, why you are so worried that the new s2000 with 1.6T are called s2000,that does not matter...

[navtheace]

Prodrive have spoke about creating a R3T Mini Cooper S.

They will work on the MINI WRC first though. Does anyone know the deal with BMW and Prodrive? Will BMW go rallying it alone after a few years?

[JAM]

JAM did you forget that FIA says that after 1/1/2011 you can only homologate s2000 with 1.6 t engine..That is it,that is the Mini, why you are so worried that the new s2000 with 1.6T are called s2000,that does not matter...

No, i don't remember that.

I remember FIA said that after 1/1/2011 no more S2000 would be homologated.

After that, only WRC 1.6T would be homologated, and the WRC would have a downgraded version called "super production SP".

[RICARDO75]

No, i don't remember that.

I remember FIA said that after 1/1/2011 no more S2000 would be homologated.

After that, only WRC 1.6T would be homologated, and the WRC would have a downgraded version called "super production SP".

No, JAM.
After 1/1/2011 no more S2000 would be homologated with 2000cc engine. Must be with 1600cc turbo engine.

Skoda is working on the Fabia with the new engine and they don't have a wrc version to downgraded.

If Ford will homologate a new Fiesta S2000 with the new 1600 turbo engine, they will switch the engine and will not make a downgrade version from the Fiesta WRC. There´s many diferent things in both cars.

Mini built a Countryman WRC and also is buiding an S2000 with a 1600 turbo engine. It's two diferent cars.

[OldF]

No, i don't remember that.

I remember FIA said that after 1/1/2011 no more S2000 would be homologated.

After that, only WRC 1.6T would be homologated, and the WRC would have a downgraded version called "super production SP".

FIA talks about S2000 no matter if it’s with 2000 cc NA engine or 1.6T engine.

WMSC press release 11.12.2009

“From 2011, S2000 cars (1.6L turbo and 2.0L normally aspirated) and Group N cars will be eligible for the WRC and all FIA Regional Rally Championships. In addition, from 2011, all new homologations of S2000 cars must be fitted with a 1.6L turbo engine.”

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/wmsc/2009/Pages/wmsc_111209.aspx

[polo10]

No, i don't remember that.

I remember FIA said that after 1/1/2011 no more S2000 would be homologated.

After that, only WRC 1.6T would be homologated, and the WRC would have a downgraded version called "super production SP".

Jam you are "teimoso"


http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... 30/$FILE/R (http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/438CC6F1F2C64928C1257800005DA530/$FILE/R)ègl.%20WRC&Annexes%202011.pdf

Ponto 4.6

[OldF]

Mini built a Countryman WRC and also is buiding an S2000 with a 1600 turbo engine. It's two diferent cars.

No, the WRC and S2000 (SP) version are identical cars except that the WRC has bigger rear wing, different front bumper, uprated front brakes.

“The MINI Countryman World Rally Car is also built to the new FIA 201 regulations and is the same as the Super Production, but building on this comprehensive package with the addition of the WRC kit, which includes:
an optimised aerodynamic pack – rear wing and front bumper - as well as uprated front brakes.”

http://www.motoringfile.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Mini-rally-car-sales-package.pdf

[Rallyper]

No, the WRC and S2000 (SP) version are identical cars except that the WRC has bigger rear wing, different front bumper, uprated front brakes.

“The MINI Countryman World Rally Car is also built to the new FIA 201 regulations and is the same as the Super Production, but building on this comprehensive package with the addition of the WRC kit, which includes:
an optimised aerodynamic pack – rear wing and front bumper - as well as uprated front brakes.”

http://www.motoringfile.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Mini-rally-car-sales-package.pdf

So, there you are. No major differneces between WRC and S2000. So that could mean we see more DS3: s and Fiestas S2000 built by satellite-teams?

[RICARDO75]

No, the WRC and S2000 (SP) version are identical cars except that the WRC has bigger rear wing, different front bumper, uprated front brakes.

“The MINI Countryman World Rally Car is also built to the new FIA 201 regulations and is the same as the Super Production, but building on this comprehensive package with the addition of the WRC kit, which includes:
an optimised aerodynamic pack – rear wing and front bumper - as well as uprated front brakes.”

http://www.motoringfile.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Mini-rally-car-sales-package.pdf

May be identical but they are still different. :D

You have two hot identical blonde sisters, but one has biggest boobs. They are identical but diferent

[wwbroe]

I think there are also some people that don't WANT to understand the situation, it is explained many different times by many different people and still people don't WANT to understand. It is not THAT difficult in my opinion. :D

[rallyfiend]

May be identical but they are still different. :D

You have two hot identical blonde sisters, but one has biggest boobs. They are identical but diferent

Everything is more easily explained using boob references.

[alleskids]

To keep things clear indiscussions on the forum, we have:
WRCars (DS3 / Countryman / Fiesta)
SP or T1600 (Countryman and maybe a Fiesta)
and S2000 (Fabia, 207, Proton, Fiesta, Grande Punto)

[JAM]

I'm really "teimoso" :D

But ok i have to accept things as they are.

If FIA wants to mantain the "S2000" terminology who i am to go against it?

Thanks for your patiente.. all :s mokin:

[Rallyper]

I think there are also some people that don't WANT to understand the situation, it is explained many different times by many different people and still people don't WANT to understand. It is not THAT difficult in my opinion. :D

It´s not about what we nerds WANT. It´s all about what media and sponsors want.

I can tell you what they want:

Pure classes, maybe only two. Maybe 2WD and 4WD. Nothing else.

Then ordinary sportsinterested people might understand what international rallying is about. And will be interested, like they are in F1 (one class).

Not the current situation, with 1001 classes, IRC, WRC, SWRC, PWRC JWRC, R4, R3T, R2, R2T, R1 and such. It´s to difficult to understand. That´s why international rallying is on a negative trend. Still is, I´m afraid.

[Mirek]

Why call S2000 to a new car when it was born as a WRC and has a 1.6T engine? Can't understand.

1) Because it's a definition. Everything has a a name which is given by regulations. Any other name is irrelevant no matter how strange the official one is.

2) Because the regulations for both are completely same except engine.

I understand You find it strange but it's given by FIA. You can fight with windmills like Don Quijote but it won't change anything.

[manta400]

I was reading in maxrally.com about Sordo doing the Recce on all rallies this year that will appear in 2012 season. What about Kris Meeke do you reckon he will do the same? Or has Sordo taken over lead driver already!!

[I am evil Homer]

If he has takne 'lead' status it's a big mistake.

[OldF]

The Finnish magazine “Vauhdin Maailma” tells that Prodrive has already sold eight (8) Mini WRC cars (I suspect that some of them are the SP version). Two of them are expected to be in WRC fulltime.

[RS]

The Finnish magazine “Vauhdin Maailma” tells that Prodrive has already sold eight (8) Mini WRC cars (I suspect that some of them are the SP version). Two of them are expected to be in WRC fulltime.

It is quite strange to see them selling so many when it hasn't even completed a single stage yet!

[OldF]

It is quite strange to see them selling so many when it hasn't even completed a single stage yet!

It was the same case with the Fiesta S2000, 23 sold before first stage and I think those are not the only ones.

[Pinto]

The Finnish magazine “Vauhdin Maailma” tells that Prodrive has already sold eight (8) Mini WRC cars (I suspect that some of them are the SP version). Two of them are expected to be in WRC fulltime.

Derek Magarrity was in prodrive testing a mini recently he's looking at bringing one to ireland he reckons the car is as good at the moment as the s12's he's rallied recently he hoped to have one for the circuit of ireland but they will not have a car for him so he hopes to have one for the Donegal international

[Mirek]

There is a strange rumor about one in Czech championship.

[OldF]

Sordo: "Rather Mini than paying for a drive with Citroen or Ford."

"I didn’t make the deal with Mini for the reason that it was my only opportunity. It would not have been difficult to get the funds to drive with Citroen or Ford but IMO it’s better to be in a team that appreciate you as a driver and not as an payer. "

"To be honest I must say that Citroen is ahead compared to Mini but also the Citroen wasn’t competetive in the same stage of the development as Mini is in now. "

"For Sweden I try to get a group N car on my own expense."

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fi&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mtv3.fi%2Furheilu%2Fralli%2Fuut iset.shtml%2Farkistot%2Fralli%2F2011%2F01%2F125288 7

[EavesFan09]

The Finnish magazine “Vauhdin Maailma” tells that Prodrive has already sold eight (8) Mini WRC cars (I suspect that some of them are the SP version). Two of them are expected to be in WRC fulltime.

There isn't a British version, is there? Then I won't feel like a muppet. :D

[OldF]

There isn't a British version, is there? Then I won't feel like a muppet. :D

Unfortunately there’s not and the web page is also only in Finnish.

http://www.vauhdinmaailma.fi/

Google translated: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fi&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vauhdinmaailma.fi%2F

[Juha_Koo]

Unfortunately there’s not and the web page is also only in Finnish.

http://www.vauhdinmaailma.fi/

Google translated: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fi&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vauhdinmaailma.fi%2F

I always laugh my ass off for that Google translation for the magazine's name. :D "Momentum in the World". I'd say "World of Speed" would be better.

[mousti]

Craig Breen's facebook:
Off to test the new Mini Countryman WRC tomorrow.....

Many drivers testing the Mini already? :)

[Allyc85]

Craig Breen's facebook:
Off to test the new Mini Countryman WRC tomorrow.....



Great news :D :D

[ProRally]

Craig Breen's facebook:
Off to test the new Mini Countryman WRC tomorrow.....

Many drivers testing the Mini already? :)

Also Mellisa Debackere from Belgium is testing the car.... :D

[Pinto]

must be a big test day tomorrow sordo will be there,it must just be a free for all i also saw that tom cave will be there too

[Juha_Koo]

I was reading in maxrally.com about Sordo doing the Recce on all rallies this year that will appear in 2012 season. What about Kris Meeke do you reckon he will do the same? Or has Sordo taken over lead driver already!!

Meeke should really do it too..

I was bit sceptic towards recce-only stuff before but after 2008 Jordan I quickly changed my mind. Sordo did recce there in 2007 but nobody else did. Sordo was leading after day one and said that the recce done the previous year helped very much. Not so hard to believe... You get to know the special characteristics, road profile, what kind of "situation corners" you have in that rally etc. Very wise move, especially if there are new rallies.

Also if you are a young gun, you should really just head out to all kinds of roads along with your codriver and just do notes. This isn't done today enough, atleast seen by some Finnish top codrivers. I can easily agree.

[Plan9]

The other day I read an old interview from Richards and he said that other car models (form different brands) suited the basic setup for his new rally car. I believe one of the cars mentioned was Mazda...are there any others?

[Zico]

My brother visted prodrive for a factory tour after the motorsport show the other weekend, his opinion is that prodrive are flogging a dead horse.. he reckons it will be a repeat of Suzukis WRC project, COG too high with prodrive being too desperate to accept any old contract possibly heading their direction after Subaru's WRC withdrawal. Its also the 'ugliest' rally 'car' he has ever seen and cant see any marketing values in it for BMW atall.
Not sure what their total workforce numbers are but apparently they have had to let 250 (iirc) staff go ... doesn't bode well for the BMW Mini by the sounds of things but I refuse to share his pessimism just yet as I think the long countryman chassis just might offer some advantages on the faster high speed events.

I guess we will just have to wait and see.

[noel157]

My brother visted prodrive for a factory tour after the motorsport show the other weekend, his opinion is that prodrive are flogging a dead horse.. he reckons it will be a repeat of Suzukis WRC project, COG too high with prodrive being too desperate to accept any old contract possibly heading their direction after Subaru's WRC withdrawal. Its also the 'ugliest' rally 'car' he has ever seen and cant see any marketing values in it for BMW atall.
Not sure what their total workforce numbers are but apparently they have had to let 250 (iirc) staff go ... doesn't bode well for the BMW Mini by the sounds of things but I refuse to share his pessimism just yet as I think the long countryman chassis just might offer some advantages on the faster high speed events.

I guess we will just have to wait and see.

I suspect your brother does not know his derrière from his coude. :)

[Juha_Koo]

My brother visted prodrive for a factory tour after the motorsport show the other weekend, his opinion is that prodrive are flogging a dead horse.. he reckons it will be a repeat of Suzukis WRC project, COG too high with prodrive being too desperate to accept any old contract possibly heading their direction after Subaru's WRC withdrawal. Its also the 'ugliest' rally 'car' he has ever seen and cant see any marketing values in it for BMW atall.
Not sure what their total workforce numbers are but apparently they have had to let 250 (iirc) staff go ... doesn't bode well for the BMW Mini by the sounds of things but I refuse to share his pessimism just yet as I think the long countryman chassis just might offer some advantages on the faster high speed events.

I guess we will just have to wait and see.

Interesting. For some reason I've had a weird feeling about this project. Don't get me wrong, I do hope that they could be able to build a winner car.

Marcus Grönholm said to one magazine that he'd really like to drive but after testing Mini said that "it really didn't go anywhere"...

[ToughMac]

My brother visted prodrive for a factory tour after the motorsport show the other weekend, his opinion is that prodrive are flogging a dead horse.. he reckons it will be a repeat of Suzukis WRC project, COG too high with prodrive being too desperate to accept any old contract possibly heading their direction after Subaru's WRC withdrawal. Its also the 'ugliest' rally 'car' he has ever seen and cant see any marketing values in it for BMW atall.
Not sure what their total workforce numbers are but apparently they have had to let 250 (iirc) staff go ... doesn't bode well for the BMW Mini by the sounds of things but I refuse to share his pessimism just yet as I think the long countryman chassis just might offer some advantages on the faster high speed events.

I guess we will just have to wait and see.

Kind of have to agree. Going by the testing videos the Mini does look a little bit more awkward and less nimble than both the Fiesta and the DS3.

[BDunnell]

For some reason I've had a weird feeling about this project. Don't get me wrong, I do hope that they could be able to build a winner car.

My view exactly, though it's based on very little. Time will tell.

[FabiaFan]

My view exactly, though it's based on very little. Time will tell.
+1

[FabiaFan]

My view exactly, though it's based on very little. Time will tell.

+1

[AndyRAC]

Oh dear, I'm another one.......I really want it to be a success. For all concerned - Prodrive, drivers, etc BMW won't hang around if it's a failure.
The WRC needs as many competitive teams as possible if it is to be a successful sport.

[BDunnell]

Oh dear, I'm another one.......I really want it to be a success. For all concerned - Prodrive, drivers, etc BMW won't hang around if it's a failure.
The WRC needs as many competitive teams as possible if it is to be a successful sport.

I wonder why we all feel this way without anything in the way of evidence that the car is crap? Is it, perhaps, because it's such an unlikely car with which to go rallying? Would we not be batting an eyelid if Prodrive had teamed up with, say, VW to rally a Golf, or with Vauxhall to run the Astra?

[AndyRAC]

I wonder why we all feel this way without anything in the way of evidence that the car is crap? Is it, perhaps, because it's such an unlikely car with which to go rallying? Would we not be batting an eyelid if Prodrive had teamed up with, say, VW to rally a Golf, or with Vauxhall to run the Astra?

I agree, it's strange that we feel this way with little 'hard evidence'. If it had been a normal Mini, or even a BMW 1 series maybe it would be different. It is a strange choice for a WRCar. Isn't there a saying, "If it looks good, it usually is good"?
Saying that, Prodrive's last few years with the Subaru was hardly fantastic. But as I said before, I hope we're all wrong.

[Zico]

I wonder why we all feel this way without anything in the way of evidence that the car is crap? Is it, perhaps, because it's such an unlikely car with which to go rallying? Would we not be batting an eyelid if Prodrive had teamed up with, say, VW to rally a Golf, or with Vauxhall to run the Astra?

Indeed, I probably wouldn't be batting an eyelid either if the had chosen the standard non estate bodyshell. Could Prodrive have spotted a packaging or weight distribution advantage? I wonder whether this was Prodrive or BMW's choice and for reasons other than marketing. Other unorthodox cars like Peugeots 'whale' etc and their lack of success probably also colours our views.

Wouldn't it be fantastic if they blew everyone away on their 1st event.. (Sardinia?) Not gonna be holding my breath though. ;)

[BDunnell]

Indeed, I probably wouldn't be batting an eyelid either if the had chosen the standard non estate bodyshell. Could Prodrive have spotted a packaging or weight distribution advantage? I wonder whether this was Prodrive or BMW's choice and for reasons other than marketing.

The BTCC Volvo 850 Estate springs to mind, I must say...

[Frozzy]

I quite like the shape of the new MINI it atleast looks aggressive and mean the only thing i hope they change is the livery but im sure they will have some new sponsors by the time of their début rally.

[Zeakiwi]

I wonder if Prodrive ever had Novikov on their driver list. Would Northern Europeans have more use for a 4x4 Mini than Iberians ?

[Francis44]

There is too much negativity around this project already, plus Marcus refusing to drive this season, even if the problem was not the car, didn't help. In the end I think we know what this car is going to be, an average car able to post some top 5 times if extremely well driven.

[grugsticles]

I have a feeling this car will be like the majority of Subaru WRC's that Prodrive built - good in some areas, devastating in others but drastically bad in a lot too.
Ie. The early they were all good in the mud and cold/slipery conditions, 2000's Subaru WRC's were good at high altitude, but they could never seem to get the top end horsepower or tarmac performance that rival teams could.

I have hope that Prodrive being a very professional outfit arnt going to let the Mini project be another Suzuki/Hyundai/Seat venture.

It also bugs me about the Mini WRC's obvious faults that we fans can see. But, at the same time, I can only hope that there are countless hours of hard work being put in to counter act these obvious downfalls. I certainly bloody hope it was a VW's and not Prodrive's decision to run the Mini and not another car as the basis for their WRC.

[cali]

I have a feeling this car will be like the majority of Subaru WRC's that Prodrive built - good in some areas, devastating in others but drastically bad in a lot too.
Ie. The early they were all good in the mud and cold/slipery conditions, 2000's Subaru WRC's were good at high altitude, but they could never seem to get the top end horsepower or tarmac performance that rival teams could.

I have hope that Prodrive being a very professional outfit arnt going to let the Mini project be another Suzuki/Hyundai/Seat venture.

It also bugs me about the Mini WRC's obvious faults that we fans can see. But, at the same time, I can only hope that there are countless hours of hard work being put in to counter act these obvious downfalls. I certainly bloody hope it was a VW's and not Prodrive's decision to run the Mini and not another car as the basis for their WRC.

BMW, not VW ;)

[Zeakiwi]

I wonder if BMW would send a couple of Schnitzer engineers over to give the Mini project a bit of an audit ?

[Xsara Fan]

I wonder if Prodrive ever had Novikov on their driver list. Would Northern Europeans have more use for a 4x4 Mini than Iberians ?

Imagine a huge list with the names of all drivers from the whole world :) That is 'The Prodrive driver list'. They want every driver who pay them money ;)

[alleskids]

Is there gonna be a website for the Mini WRC team? The Prodrive is no use in finding any real news, data about the Mini Countryman WRCar

[306 Cosworth]

No wonder there's no fecking manufacturers in the WRC. As soon as a new one joins you all instantly write them off without the car even turning a wheel in competition. Why is this car destined to be like Hyundai/Seat/Skoda? Do any of you work for Prodrive and know all the facts? Do any of you know the cars capabilities?

[Bigdiggerman]

No wonder there's no fecking manufacturers in the WRC. As soon as a new one joins you all instantly write them off without the car even turning a wheel in competition. Why is this car destined to be like Hyundai/Seat/Skoda? Do any of you work for Prodrive and know all the facts? Do any of you know the cars capabilities?

+1

[Zico]

No wonder there's no fecking manufacturers in the WRC. As soon as a new one joins you all instantly write them off without the car even turning a wheel in competition. Why is this car destined to be like Hyundai/Seat/Skoda? Do any of you work for Prodrive and know all the facts? Do any of you know the cars capabilities?


Not sure exactly why really but I think almost everyone who commented has questioned themselves why they/we feel this way.. hunch?.. or are going by input from drivers who have driven it.

Or could it be that Im simply kidding myself and somewhere deep down Im secretly hoping that such an ugly, unorthodox car doesn't become the pinnacle of the WRC ?

No, I think its just a hunch for me, however If the power is good I do believe the high speed events may favour the cars longer wheelbase and inherant stability.

[BDunnell]

No wonder there's no fecking manufacturers in the WRC. As soon as a new one joins you all instantly write them off without the car even turning a wheel in competition. Why is this car destined to be like Hyundai/Seat/Skoda? Do any of you work for Prodrive and know all the facts? Do any of you know the cars capabilities?

Which is why those of us harbouring doubts have all, as far as I can see, said that it's nothing more than a hunch and expressed our fervent hope that our doubts are misplaced. I genuinely have no idea why I think the Mini entry might not be up to much. It isn't a feeling I have in relation to a VW entry. Why? I don't know. And I very, very much hope to be proved utterly wrong, because it would be fantastic to see Mini being successful.

[alleskids]

The recent history of Prodrive has troubled the view of most on the forum. They had full support form Subaru, money wise and technical support, but failed in making a good rallycar for the last 4 years (2004-2008). The new BMW/Mini project is not fully supported by BMW, only done with permission to use the name and the engine. Prodrive had huge succes when they only concentrated on rally, but the succes has gone since they done other sports of Motorsport, like GT, Le ans and puttng a lot of effort to be a Formala 1 team. The feeling on the forum is, that they lost the touch in making a succesful rallycar.
Plus a great number of drivers has tested the Countryman WRCar, but almost no one is given enthousiastic responce. Marcus Gronholm can be seen as an expert on rallycars, and if he refuses an offer to drive the car, it is bad advertisment for the car.
We all sillently hope that Prodrive will have a great surprise and makes the Mini a real competator for the Fiesta/DS3.

[OldF]

Prodrive has still few months time to develop the car.

But in generally I don’t say yes either no. After we know the performance, I could write, “what did I say” and know one will remember what I wrote.

[bluuford]

The car will be faster than we can expect and they are going to surprise us all (almost all)! One podium during the season for sure!

When it becomes true, then I will be at the end of the last SS in first World Championship round that takes place in Estonia and offer a free beer to every (http://www.motorsportforums.com) forum member that has shown negative attitude in this topic (until now).

Yes, when the positive scenario happens then I am going to dig out my post from the history books :-)
When it does not happen then I am sure that someone does it for me :-P

[Zeakiwi]

Maybe it is also the colour scheme of the test car and livery of the show car that is an issue.

Perhaps the rally car should be in black paint like this road car, it looks serious.

http://www.wekop.com/tag/2011-mini-countryman-wheel-base

[Zeakiwi]

Maybe Mini could introduce the BMW art car concept to WRC. Keep one car in the traditional red and white and the other car could be 'done' by a top art student from the wrc round country.

http://www.bmwdrives.com/bmw-artcars.php

[PLuto]

First official video from Prodrive with Mini Countryman WRC on test road - http://bit.ly/hVQwHi

[dimviii]

worst teaser video i ve seen.

[N.O.T]

i feel sorry for meeke and sordo already...

[BDunnell]

To my eyes, it is without question the worst-looking WRC car for many a year.

[GINE]

Any other link? I can't see anything on an ipad

[dimviii]

Even in wide screen you haven t got to see something....

[darkstar]

this video is really extremely bad, especially the sound with the windnoise...

[vkangas]

Good chances to be the new Suzuki - why on earth did they make that video... :confused: Seriously speaking I don't too much like judging cars based on video footage. Things that concern me most are the several weak signals that suggest that Mini really is not a serious attempt:
- Marcus saying that he really wanted to drive it next year, but It didn't go anywhere.
- The small amount of Mini/BMW public presence.
- Sordo's comments about the car
- Sordo's co-driver chance due financial reasons
- Prodrive seeking WRC team manager for months with no success

Also my personal opinion is that Countryman is far from optimal base car because of the body dimensions, height, center of gravity, aerodynamics etc.

I really 100% hope that I'm wrong! :)

[urabus-denoS2000]

Comments on this super-spectacular official Prodrive video

- Extremely boring video and montage
- Vomit livery
- Very bad sound
- Looks like it was made in a garage yesterday , at least it could be all white


Disaster .

[Co-driven]

I still can't understand the reason of this weird livery....

At least they could film the car on a forest stage or on a proper tarmac one.

[tfp]

I must admit, the teaser video wasn't the best, hopefuly the car will be a lot more competitive than the video suggests!

[GigiGalliNo1]

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6501/p90072267.jpg

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3315/p90072268.jpg

Yay! Another Red car in the WRC!!!

:|

NOT

[PLuto]

Here are also photos from presentation in Monte Carlo - http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php?cl=11691

[RICARDO75]

Is this the S2000 1.6 Turbo?
The rear wing it´s smaller

[Francis44]

Yes this is S2000 1.6 version.

[koko0703]

I know the appearance isn't the performance but it looks like a family car rather than a rally car.

[Donney]

The red livery is the only good looking thing in that car. I still hope it will be a good car...... (please... god or whoever is in charge of miracles now)

[noel157]

Yes, the car is not the most handsome of vehicles but forget about that. Forget what Gronholm allegedly said, the car and the team will be a success in WRC. It'll take time certainly and there is a lot of work ahead for the drivers and engineers. Contrary to what some have said in earlier posts BMW are putting money into the project and quite a large amount too. This is not a Suzuki (where the team couldn't afford to test on a regular basis) or a Seat or a Nissan or a Mazda adventure.

Video from the Monte Carlo launch: http://www.wrc.com/video/browse-all/video-wrc-2011-mini-in-monte-carlo/?vid=1974

[noel157]

A few short videos (not the best but...) from the latest test near Malaga in Spain. This is the 2nd last test before engine homologation. The last test will be in France later this month:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIsf83TLP9E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhoedOzbOT4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DjxP_tFqPI

[Sulland]

Maybe the Paceman will take over as the WRC car. Looks a bit more suited; http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-news/minis-new-twodoor-suv-20110112-19nlz.html

[N.O.T]

i doubt mini will be in the sport for more than 2 years.... I hope BMW enters a proper car after that instead of just pulling out.

[Zico]

Yep... A 1 series hatch or coupe? The new M1 gives a hint of what it could look like.

[noel157]

Car starting to look faster. Good video of testing in Spain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWZRamnK62Y

Thanks Luke.

[Donney]

Yep it looks better!!!!

[dimviii]

seems to slow in corners,and different antilag system than fiesta and ds3,sounds like old antilag systems.

[alleskids]

a lot of drivers have tested the car, but the only one really interested seem to be Meeke, Sordo and Oliviera and the teaamaneger of HF Grifone. Prodrive claim to have sold many Countryman WRCars and Countryman SP. Is it known which drivers are serieus interested and how already have made an claim ?

[Motorsportfun]

i doubt mini will be in the sport for more than 2 years.... I hope BMW enters a proper car after that instead of just pulling out.

:talk: :talk: :talk:

[noel157]

Another video from Spain earlier this week, 14 mins :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-iE8epGGfU

Edit - 10 mins without the spiders, dogs, windmills and horses.....

[wildsir]

looking good. very stable, good driving also from Sordo. Others will being to look more closely... its certainly improving.

[Zico]

looking good. very stable, good driving also from Sordo. Others will being to look more closely... its certainly improving.


Looks a little slow to turn but then you would expect that with the longer wheelbase, the upside is stability of course. Certainly an improvement...

[COD]

It's beginning to look like a rallycar! A few more engine developments and some work on the handling and it could be a serious contender. I hope they do well

[J.Lindstroem]

I really wish them well. Looks more and more like the drivers are able to handle it also. Im still a little bit dissapointed by the looks of the car. Looks to big and high. Cant understand why they choose a mini SUV for a Wrc car, under the new regs and all! How ironic that the "Mini" is the biggest car in the Wrc?

[vkangas]

Something more positive... Mini seems to have nice gear lever design.

http://i52.tinypic.com/dm66x0.jpg

[Plan9]

I don't get why people criticize Mini. Remember 2007 and 2008??? those seasons had 16 rallies. I think that was mainly due to car manufacturers being present. It looks bad to have only 13 events while f1 has over 16.

We need Mini and other car companies to be here (VW I's sure will join...i would question Toyota entering with a Yaris) because they bring interest from the general public (other than hardcore rally fans) and make places like Monte Carlo and NZ/Australia etc want to have the WRC back.

Monte Carol will not be in the WRC as long as there are few car companies.

That is all

[N.O.T]

We need Mini and other car companies to be here (VW I's sure will join...i would question Toyota entering with a Yaris) because they bring interest from the general public (other than hardcore rally fans) and make places like Monte Carlo and NZ/Australia etc want to have the WRC back.


we need competitive manufacturers and not jokes like seat, hyundai and suzuki. i prefer to see 2 competitive manufacturers than 5 manufacturers and 2 competitive ones.

[Plan9]

we need competitive manufacturers and not jokes like seat, hyundai and suzuki. i prefer to see 2 competitive manufacturers than 5 manufacturers and 2 competitive ones.

Amen. However, I do not think that Toyota will provide that. I'm sure that Mini will be MUCH better than any of the companies you mentioned.

[Co-driven]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayoyjCAzxjM

[amilk]

I would be inetersted what will be the program for Mini Wrc in 2011. Especially Acropolis - will be part of their campaing in 2011?

[noel157]

I would be inetersted what will be the program for Mini Wrc in 2011. Especially Acropolis - will be part of their campaing in 2011?

At the moment schedule is: Sardina, Greece, NORF, Germany, Australia, France, Spain and GB so you are in luck!

Short video of Meeke testing on high speed stage last week in Spain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQoYfLNx_RY

[mdesign]

Armindo Araujo confirmed today that he will be on some WRC rallys with the Mini!
http://autosport.aeiou.pt/gen.pl?p=stories&op=view&fokey=as.stories/94017

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http://autosport.aeiou.pt/gen.pl%3Fp%3Dstories%26op%3Dview%26fokey%3Das.stor ies/94017&lp=pt_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

[Allyc85]

Good to see the pwrc champ stepping up, will be good to see how he and Mini gets on :)

[Andre Oliveira]

Congratulations to Armindo and Miguel. This team deserves...

[noel157]

Short video of Meeke testing in France this week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh5yUd092Xs

[TKM Jnr]

Short video of Meeke testing in France this week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh5yUd092Xs

That looked to sit very flat over the jump. Impressive.

[JAM]

Armindo was yesterday at Mini test and had a ride at the wheel of the Mini, and some rides with Kris Meeke.

He will have a SP Mini in the Rally of Portugal, and Daniel Oliveira too. According to Prodrive, the difference between this car and the WRC is smaller than we expect. Only two details...

[Ondra WRC]

Video from test Kris Meeke and Dani Sordo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uJkp2ga7xA&feature=feedu

[Barreis]

WRC started to raise..

[Daniel]

That looked to sit very flat over the jump. Impressive.

Reminds me a bit of the 206 WRC which used to fly very level. I've got a nasty feeling that the Mini is going to be quick, could be game on again in the WRC......

[Mirek]

Nice video, now it looks promising. And I must say that when the car is completely covered by mud, it doesn't look that awful :D

[dimviii]

Video from test Kris Meeke and Dani Sordo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uJkp2ga7xA&feature=feedu

isn t it the same place where Citroen tested the ds3?

[Josti]

Nice video, now it looks promising. And I must say that when the car is completely covered by mud, it doesn't look that awful :D

The car (I would say a real one) was exhibited at the Legend Boucles de Spa this weekend. I was surprised by the looks of it. Seemed rather big but very aggressive with some unique looking details. I really like it.

[vkangas]

Looks really good, I'm positively surprized!

[Ondra WRC]

isn t it the same place where Citroen tested the ds3?


According this (http://wrc.is.free.fr/images/2010/tests/ds3MaiFontjnocouse/sordoTestDS3WRC.jpg) photo propably yes

[Plan9]

Any word on sponsors yet? in the media release I saw a castrol sticker on the side of the car...would this come at the expense of ford??? I think this car will be awesome as well

[noel157]

Any word on sponsors yet? in the media release I saw a castrol sticker on the side of the car...would this come at the expense of ford??? I think this car will be awesome as well

At the early stages of the project Vodafone were in discussions. Since Sordo signed Santander has been mentioned. But we'll see.

Good to see that some realise it's a serious project with serious backing. It can only get better.

[Sulland]

I drove in paralell lane in a que and slowely passed a Countryman driving after a 207. Quite some size difference btw those two, at least in civil version. So it looks quite big and bulky to me. But prodrive, pls prove me wrong, that it is just the correct size !

[Ondra WRC]

Video from test Dani Sordo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Scfe-V4xNRc&feature=feedu

[N.O.T]

Didn't know sordos french were that good.....

[urabus-denoS2000]

It has to be ;)

[noel157]

Another video of Mini's test last week. Sordo getting plenty of air:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EIAkY_1pf4

[N.O.T]

all over the place...not good.

[Allyc85]

In which bit exactly?

[manta400]

correct me if im wrong but that looks far quicker than any other videos?

[Co-driven]

Another video of Mini's test last week. Sordo getting plenty of air:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EIAkY_1pf4


Is it the same place as Petter's test?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zoO8yCEtnU

[nr7wave]

Is it the same place as Petter's test?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zoO8yCEtnU

Looks very similar. The DS3 looks much faster, by the way.

One thing I noticed on the video(and on other test videos of the Mini), is that it seems like the mini has shorter suspension travel compared to the DS3 and the Fiesta. Or at least less negative travel. If thats true, it does'nt bode well for the mini, I think.

[Plan9]

Can someone remind me what and "SP car" is, and what their technical specs are...

are they much different to S2000???

will mini go ahead with making a 2wd edition of the countryman wrc?

[ProRally]

Can someone remind me what and "SP car" is, and what their technical specs are...

are they much different to S2000???

will mini go ahead with making a 2wd edition of the countryman wrc?

I hear there is a plan for a R3 version .... would be good for starting drivers

[Mirek]

Can someone remind me what and "SP car" is, and what their technical specs are...

are they much different to S2000???

SP means S2000 1.6T car. It's same with WRC except few features like smaller restrictor (30 mm compared to 33 mm), small wing, different front bumper and less powerful front asphalt brakes (no water cooling).

[Sulland]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/pics/86c4a390d1.jpg

Looks like the suspension has less travel than the two others.

[bluuford]

Just for fun I put two pictures together in graphics program and it looks like there is nearly no difference. Just the nose of the MINI makes the look of suspension travel very different. If you draw the line from the front bottom until the back bottom of the car the there was no visible difference to my eye. Well, I must admit that I had very bad picture of DS3 as well.

[noel157]

Let's hope Prodrive, BMW and Mini are not reading this, otherwise we won't see the car make it's debut in Sardinia and will have to wait until Sweden 2012 because it will have to be redesigned and rebuilt. :)

[Co-driven]

SP means S2000 1.6T car. It's same with WRC except few features like smaller restrictor (30 mm compared to 33 mm), small wing, different front bumper and less powerful front asphalt brakes (no water cooling).

Hi Mirek,

Isn't the 30 mm restrictor used for national championships? The Mini SP that Armindo Araújo and Daniel Oliveira will use in Portugal won't have the 33 mm restrictor?

[bluuford]

I think that the new Mini WRC (33mm restrictor) is not ready before Sardegna and therefore they are using SP with 30mm restrictor in Portugal. Entry list is also indicating the same.

[milly]

At the early stages of the project Vodafone were in discussions. Since Sordo signed Santander has been mentioned. But we'll see.

Good to see that some realise it's a serious project with serious backing. It can only get better.

Castrol has a central contract with BMW - all touring car, sportscars, even World Superbikes, have to use Castrol so it will be a small, supplier deal with Mini. Same deal with Ford for rally.

If Vodafone comes, it will only be through Vodafone Spain deal with Sordo - Vodafone Global not interested in rally.

Santander money goes to Alonso in F1 (UK pays some to McLaren to advertise the change of Abbey National to Santander in UK). Might also be a small deal with Sordo.

[Mirek]

Hi Mirek,

Isn't the 30 mm restrictor used for national championships? The Mini SP that Armindo Araújo and Daniel Oliveira will use in Portugal won't have the 33 mm restrictor?

This is what is not clear to me. If S2000 1.6T restrictor is same in WRC as in regional championships. I presume it is but I'm not sure...

[Sulland]

This as usual up to the ASN, if they allow WRC it is on. I do not think FIA can stop them, just recommend.

[Mirek]

You didn't get the point. It's not about national championship but about WRC. The 30 mm size for S2000 1.6T is defined in FIA regional championship regulations which are not valid for WRC events.

So I had a closer look into regulations.

WRC regs say that restrictor size is given by Art.255A App.J International Sporting Code.
Art.255A App.J says that restrictor size is maximum 33 mm.

So my conclusion is that only FIA regional championship regulations include smaller 30 mm restrictor. If I get it right all 1.6T will have same restrictor in WRC, in this case G. Morales was right.

[OldF]

Regarding WRC and regional championship rallies I don’t think the local ASN can dictate the rules, they’re set by FIA. In national championship and other national rallies the local ASN can dictate the rules.

In GP Week, issue #105, was written that the aero package is mandatory for a WRC version but the rest is optional. As I see it in WRC events it depends on in which class (WRC = 33 mm restrictor = class WRC, SP = 30 mm restrictor = class 1 = SP / S2000) the competitor has registered for the event.

[Mirek]

There is no word about 30 mm restrictor anywhere in WRC regs. or App.J. The only place where such number is written is regional regulations and those are meaningless for WRC events.

[OldF]

Yes I now that. But what I meant was that if a competitor wants to compete in a WRC event, he/she can choose in witch class to compete (WRC or class 1 = 1.6T S2000) and by that the restrictor would be either 30 mm or 33 mm.

BTW, I couldn’t find any mention about the 30 mm restrictor in both WRC and regional championship regulations. The only one is the press release from FIA of 11th of February. http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/wrc/2011/Pages/fia-regional-rally.aspx

But as usually it will probably take few months for FIA to update this in the Article 255A.

[Sulland]

Yes I now that. But what I meant was that if a competitor wants to compete in a WRC event, he/she can choose in witch class to compete (WRC or class 1 = 1.6T S2000) and by that the restrictor would be either 30 mm or 33 mm.

BTW, I couldn’t find any mention about the 30 mm restrictor in both WRC and regional championship regulations. The only one is the press release from FIA of 11th of February. http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/wrc/2011/Pages/fia-regional-rally.aspx

But as usually it will probably take few months for FIA to update this in the Article 255A.

I agree with OldF here. As far as i remember that has been the whole plan. A privateer can do what he want, and it should be flexible. You could do your national series in a SP spec car, but upgrade for the number of WRC rounds you want/ can afford, and if you are in SWRC in a SP you could upgrade the car to do a rally or two in WRC spec.

But i also think to remember that class 1 in 2011 is S2000 NA only, but I might be wrong. Could have been SWRC that in 2011 will be NA
only.

[Mirek]

I agree with OldF here. As far as i remember that has been the whole plan. A privateer can do what he want, and it should be flexible. You could do your national series in a SP spec car, but upgrade for the number of WRC rounds you want/ can afford, and if you are in SWRC in a SP you could upgrade the car to do a rally or two in WRC spec.

I haven't said anything against that.


But i also think to remember that class 1 in 2011 is S2000 NA only, but I might be wrong. Could have been SWRC that in 2011 will be NA
only.

No, class 1 is S2000 1.6T, class 2 is S2000 2.0N/A + R4. SWRC is only for S2000 2.0 N/A + R4.

[Sulland]

You are again correct Mirek (oh I hate it when he does that !), I will join you in your tavern for a Budvar !

[Mirek]

Ah, I don't like Budvar that much. Better some more bitter like Pilsner :D

[OldF]

Is that Pilsner Urquell. I’ve heard that the best beer can be found in Czech Republic.

[Zeakiwi]

I thought the Belgium Trappist monks brewed the best beer ?

[darkstar]

as far as i know, the best beer comes from germany, doesnt it? :p

[Rallyper]

as far as i know, the best beer comes from germany, doesnt it? :p

No from Finland, Koff 7,5... :lips:

[N.O.T]

best beer comes from brittain...belgium,czech and germany only produce cheap lagers. you want real beer (ale) you go brittish...

[tfp]

best beer comes from brittain...belgium,czech and germany only produce cheap lagers. you want real beer (ale) you go brittish...

Ale isn't really my thing, but theres a pub near me that has a tiny brewery underneath it, and people come from miles to try this beer. Me? I just go to the shop down the road:-)

[tfp]

Ha, I love this, the prodrive mini wrc thread has turned into a beer thread:-) Says a lot about wrc fans :D :D :D

[darkstar]

hehe, defently... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn6T6OzgrX4

[urabus-denoS2000]

Best beer is from Czech Republic , the Brits are more famous for higher percetange alcohols ( not really my thing ) ;) You see James Bond drinking martinis and whiskies , not beer :D

[Mintexmemory]

The best beer is NOT a lager, pilsner or similar it has to be a proper fuggles or golding hop and malted barley brew. So I'm prepared to vote for the very good Belgian Bier brun available in Flanders from the hypermakets at a rediculously low price for 7% content. Are we talking taste or bang per buck to judge the 'best'? Bang per buck has to be the 5% weiss bier I bought in Lidl in Trier for less than a euro per 500 ml can.............

[tfp]

hehe, defently... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn6T6OzgrX4

HAHA! Minis new livery for 2012, Prodrive Duff Beer Mini Wrc:-)

[PLuto]

best beer comes from brittain...belgium,czech and germany only produce cheap lagers. you want real beer (ale) you go brittish...

Said man, who every year talks (only talks) about visiting Czech republic :) How you can judge if you havent dring czech beer? :D

[PLuto]

HAHA! Minis new livery for 2012, Prodrive Duff Beer Mini Wrc:-)

After strange design, name and starting numbers, I am looking forward what they will show us with livery. Maybe they will start with same livery as on tests? If not, everything is possible, including Duff Beer or portrait of Homer Simpson (or Paddy Hopkirk or Timo Makinen) on the bonnet...

[TheFlyingTuga]

Sorry guys, the best beer is from Portugal! A lager named Super Bock! And we have it in "Mini" format (a bottle of 20 cl)!!

BTW, Armindo's livery will look really good, trust me!! For show next Wednesday...I hope!

[N.O.T]

Said man, who every year talks (only talks) about visiting Czech republic :) How you can judge if you havent dring czech beer? :D

damn....maybe this year then...maybe :D :D

[N.O.T]

guys lagers are not beers...lagers are lagers...the way of production is quite different in many ways from the materials used to the brewing and maturation process...do not confuse them.

nothing compares to a dark stout...

[Sulland]

Since I OTd this thread, but the topic seemed to take off, pls continue the Beer discussion here: http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?141441-Rallyfans-taste-in-Beer&p=892300#post892300
so this one can go back to Mini.

Sorry about the derail ! :s mokin: :beer:

[Andre Oliveira]

In official Armindo fans page on facebook (http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/FasArmindoAraujo): (http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#%21/FasArmindoAraujo%29:)



Hi everyone! If you are reminded, we told you that we had a surprise saved for you.
Armindo Araújo wishes that all his fans can be able to watch next Wednesday, 2nd March, from 18.30, to is official presentation of WRC project 2011.
In order to don´t lose a minute of the presentation, were it will be exposed for the first time the colors of Mini Countryman WRC, all you have to do is go to the website www.armindoaraujo.com (http://www.armindoaraujo.com/) and see all in live stream.

Thank you all

[tolis]

No Acropolis rally for the official Mini's...
2011 programme for Mini announced: http://www.motorstv.com/car/rally/wrc/01032011/mini-announces-its-2011-wrc-dates

[MikeD]

The car won't be the "Countryman" but called the MINI John Cooper Works WRC and if they are only going to do 6 rallies, they won't be able to score Manufacturer points (right?) whereas the Brazil WRT has registreret as a Manu team and will therefor be the only MINI team able to score Manu points .... unless Araújo's team will register for Manu points (anybody know that?).

[tolis]

In official Armindo fans page on facebook (http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/FasArmindoAraujo): (http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#%21/FasArmindoAraujo%29:)



Hi everyone! If you are reminded, we told you that we had a surprise saved for you.
Armindo Araújo wishes that all his fans can be able to watch next Wednesday, 2nd March, from 18.30, to is official presentation of WRC project 2011.
In order to don´t lose a minute of the presentation, were it will be exposed for the first time the colors of Mini Countryman WRC, all you have to do is go to the website www.armindoaraujo.com (http://www.armindoaraujo.com/) and see all in live stream.

Thank you all
Live now the presentation of the new Mini!

[Francis44]

Livery of Armindo is very cool but the car they showed it on is a normal road going MINI Countryman.

[Andre Oliveira]

5 stars to Armindo's MINI livery.

GO Armindo!!! GO

[TheFlyingTuga]

Here is the livery, still, in a 3D of the Paris Show presentation car! But... you got the looks of it!

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/6799/minifinalstudio.jpg (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/minifinalstudio.jpg/)

Thank you for the support Francis and André :)

[Andre Oliveira]

Beautifull

[alleskids]

The WRcar will be called Countryuman WRCar and the S2000 will be John Cooper Works S2000??

[rp]

The WRcar will be called Countryuman WRCar and the S2000 will be John Cooper Works S2000??

MINI John Cooper Works S2000
&
MINI John Cooper Works WRC

[Andre Oliveira]

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/6799/minifinalstudio.jpg

[Daniel Darrall]

Mini Confirms WRC debut. - First Mini S2000 will be out on Portugal! http://danieldarrall.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/mini-confirms-wrc-debut/

[Daniel Darrall]

Info on new manufactures looking to enter WRC in here somewhere - http://danieldarrall.wordpress.com/2011/02/06/wrc-2011-season-preview/

[Tomi]

Mini Confirms WRC debut. - First Mini S2000 will be out on Portugal! http://danieldarrall.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/mini-confirms-wrc-debut/

Thanks for the info!! Are you short on visitors on your page?

[dimviii]

:D

[N.O.T]

nice...

[J.Lindstroem]

Mini Confirms WRC debut. - First Mini S2000 will be out on Portugal! http://danieldarrall.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/mini-confirms-wrc-debut/

Hey man! If you are going to run a Wrc blog and advertise it here, you need to write things that we don't know. I mean, this is the biggest rally forum in the world and, not to be rude, but your blog is a little bit "yesterday", if you know what i mean.

[dimviii]

http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/show.php?id=16210&title=mini-v-laznich

[jbmarcus21]

this pics was during Boucle de Spa Rally Legend in Belgium ;)

[Co-driven]

Pictures of Brazil World Rally Team:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=157921390928802&aid=35916

[JRodrigues]

Armindo Araújo went to England today to test the car as well..

[Barreis]

Car looks so big..

[urabus-denoS2000]

Car looks so big..

+1 ...

However on a positive note , much larger cars are generally much more attractive :)

[RS]

+1 ...

However on a positive note , much larger cars are generally much more attractive :)

This must be the exception to the rule...

[dimviii]

This must be the exception to the rule...

lololol :D

[urabus-denoS2000]

This must be the exception to the rule...

I meant performance wise , but I agree :D

[Plan9]

I have just been watching the videos of the car testing as well and i think it looks very impressive. When do you guys think Meeke will be able to challenge for a championship??? I'm thinkin he could challenge for 1 within the next 6 years. I know this is way to early to judge but I am curious

[Jake Stephens]

I have just been watching the videos of the car testing as well and i think it looks very impressive. When do you guys think Meeke will be able to challenge for a championship??? I'm thinkin he could challenge for 1 within the next 6 years. I know this is way to early to judge but I am curious

Is that you David Lapworth? :)

[BDunnell]

I am more interested than ever to see how the car performs having read still further comments from Dave Richards and others on how the Mini WRC is the best rally car Prodrive has ever built, etc etc. If it doesn't work, I think they are heading for a mighty fall in reputation as far as rallying is concerned, far bigger than any they experienced in the latter Subaru years.

[AndyRAC]

I am more interested than ever to see how the car performs having read still further comments from Dave Richards and others on how the Mini WRC is the best rally car Prodrive has ever built, etc etc. If it doesn't work, I think they are heading for a mighty fall in reputation as far as rallying is concerned, far bigger than any they experienced in the latter Subaru years.

What concerns me slightly about Prodrive is they're running two major Motorsport programmes this year (BMW-Mini WRC/ Aston-Martin LMP) - and it's the first year of both. Now obviously they have dedicated teams for each programme - but I wonder whether both or one will suffer.

[alleskids]

stil no own site fot the Mini WRC team, no sponsoring for the team?

[pucky54]

stil no own site fot the Mini WRC team, no sponsoring for the team?

minimotorsport.com

[Plan9]

Is that you David Lapworth? :)

I wish I was =p

[Plan9]

What concerns me slightly about Prodrive is they're running two major Motorsport programmes this year (BMW-Mini WRC/ Aston-Martin LMP) - and it's the first year of both. Now obviously they have dedicated teams for each programme - but I wonder whether both or one will suffer.

I would'nt worry too much...remember when Prodrive did Subaru they also had the BAR F1 team and some commitments in BTCC so I think that they can cope.

I am very exctied too...I have neved heard dave richards sound this excited about a car ever and i have been a fan of his since 1995!!!

I think that Meeke is more likely to get a championship than sordo. I also get the impression that he would leave soon after he got it and do something else. I just hope he doesn't end up like Burns when he went to Peugeot.

[Juha_Koo]

Why hasn't Meeke impressed in the WRC?

In 2005 he was 9th overall in Wales and 2007 he was 9th before going out on the first day in Ireland (both basically home rallies to him). Just comparing him to some Finnish drivers with lot less of international experience driving good results in Finland and/or Sweden.

Ofcourse he has shown nice speed in IRC, but IRC is not WRC.

[Plan9]

Why hasn't Meeke impressed in the WRC?

In 2005 he was 9th overall in Wales and 2007 he was 9th before going out on the first day in Ireland (both basically home rallies to him). Just comparing him to some Finnish drivers with lot less of international experience driving good results in Finland and/or Sweden.

Ofcourse he has shown nice speed in IRC, but IRC is not WRC.

I reckon it was partly because he was taught how to drive by Colin McRae and he tried to replicate that really sideways style that only Colin had managed to really perfect. Secondly the IRC cars seem to be more forgiving of wild driving styles so Kris was able to drive the Peugeot more comfortably. I think it is too early to say how well he will do driving the Mini but the videos show him driving it quite smoothly.

[Mirek]

Kris is far away from being sideways driver now. He is often very much on the limit but very rarely sideways, his stile is very clean (at least on all tarmac events I saw him in last two IRC seasons he was). If You ask me Hänninen's style of those two is much more flamboyant and Colin style.

Judging his speed from some episodes years a go isn't valid for me. One start was 6 years a go, one was 4 years a go. That's nice 2 starts in last 6 years, very useful for judging his current speed, I have to say :/

[wildsir]

Why hasn't Meeke impressed in the WRC?</p>


*</p>


In 2005 he was 9th overall in Wales and 2007 he was 9th before going out on the first day in Ireland (both basically home rallies to him). Just comparing him to some Finnish drivers with lot less of international experience driving good results in Finland and/or Sweden.</p>


*</p>


Ofcourse he has shown nice speed in IRC, but IRC is not WRC.</p>

There is no hiding place in WRC. If Meeke can outpace Sordo, then I think he will be given the respect he deserves. Maybe when team MINI start trouncing the Finn/Ford combo, especially on tarmac, it will change the mind of some. Meeke was the only man to outpace Hanninen on a regular basis.


*</p>

[I am evil Homer]

He's still better than the much hyped drivers such as Ketomaa and PG.

[Rallyper]

He's still better than the much hyped drivers such as Ketomaa and PG.

If you say a guy who take stagewins in WRC is hyped, then you know nothing.

[Bobcat]

If you say a guy who take stagewins in WRC is hyped, then you know nothing.
+1

[MrJan]

If you say a guy who take stagewins in WRC is hyped, then you know nothing.

Ha!!! I can blow your theory out of the water with two simple little words:

Matthew Wilson

:D The prosecution rests.

[N.O.T]

Pg and Ketomaa are not hyped....but meeke is better than both.

[darkstar]

new big wing for the mini: http://www.rallye-magazin.de/uploads/pics/news_wm_20110318_01.jpg

[N.O.T]

oh god....

[HaCo]

Judging his speed from some episodes years a go isn't valid for me. One start was 6 years a go, one was 4 years a go. That's nice 2 starts in last 6 years, very useful for judging his current speed, I have to say :/
Exactly what I was thinking. I hope the Mini will do good and Kris will be able to show something!

[Barreis]

new big wing for the mini: http://www.rallye-magazin.de/uploads/pics/news_wm_20110318_01.jpg

Like a fat pig.. :D

[N.O.T]

Exactly what I was thinking. I hope the Mini will do good and Kris will be able to show something!

the mini has the potential to be the worst car ever used in WRC surpassing the hyundai, seat and even suzuki....It would be unfair to judge sordo or meeke from their outings with this car....The only thing i would like to see is how meeke compares to sordo on gravel and tarmac, and of course if he manages to keep the car in one piece.

[Gard]

If you say a guy who take stagewins in WRC is hyped, then you know nothing.

And with a 4 year old Skoda

[Zeakiwi]

I was having a look at the testing video. I cannot quite pick quite what it is about the Mini front end. In one clip the front suspension looked amazing, does it need to be really amazing to be competitive ? It is the steering, anti-rollbars ?, something with the shock absorber compression, front wheel castor angle? How does the front wheel travel and A arm geometry compare to Fiesta ?
With the longer wheel base the car's outside back wheels might end up in the (Fiesta/DS 3) gravel sweepings on twisty gravel road corners.

[6789]

Hopefully the anti roll bars are nothing like the later Impreza WRC ones..

[Barreis]

+1

[Plan9]

Exactly what I was thinking. I hope the Mini will do good and Kris will be able to show something!

I also agree. I think the Kris could become the face of WRC like McRae (but its a big maybe). He is going to get a lot of exposure through the Dirt 3 game as he has his Peugeot featured (and maybe the Mini), which I hope will mean more fans for the WRC. I'm sure he will pull in solid results as Prodrive and BMW have both proven track records for making powerful and often reliable racing cars

[Zeakiwi]

Perhaps Prodrive could get a sample of these http://www.turnermotorsport.com/c-131-h-r-sway-bar-kits.aspx to try in the mini swrc. Certainly a better use of US steel than how it is being put to use in some parts of the world.

[Sulland]

Like a fat pig.. :D
Looks very much like a Subaru spoiler, is this the one they will homologate?

But when the donorcar is not very good looking, it is hard to get the rallycar to look tough and sporty!

[Ucci]

I wish Mini&Prodrive&Meeke&Sordo all the best!! Thank god we''ll have the third manufacturer in the WRC!!
But, given the circumtances with huge amount of experience with top-rallying by Citroën and M-Sport, it is realistic to say, if Meeke or Sordo will have this year yust one top-three finish, this will count same as a victory for them.
In terms of speed by my opinion Meeke has no chance against Sordo on dry tarmac. Obviously some of you forget very fast the fact, that Sordo was the one and only for the last three-four seasons, who was able to chalenge Loeb for the tarmac victory. And don't give me crap about how was Xsara or C4 much better on tarmac as Focus....We all know that Ford guys were (are) simply slower !!
Story can be much different on the gravel, but still do not understimate Sordo.....
And looking back for some years-all newcomers (Suzuki, Škoda, Hyundai, Seat) for the last ten years had no chance against the established teams as Subaru, Peugeot, Mitsubishi...So, they can be a kind of surprise in terms of speed; I wish them; but something is telling me this won't happen.....

[tfp]

I wish Mini&Prodrive&Meeke&Sordo all the best!! Thank god we''ll have the third manufacturer in the WRC!!
But, given the circumtances with huge amount of experience with top-rallying by Citroën and M-Sport, it is realistic to say, if Meeke or Sordo will have this year yust one top-three finish, this will count same as a victory for them.
In terms of speed by my opinion Meeke has no chance against Sordo on dry tarmac. Obviously some of you forget very fast the fact, that Sordo was the one and only for the last three-four seasons, who was able to chalenge Loeb for the tarmac victory. And don't give me crap about how was Xsara or C4 much better on tarmac as Focus....We all know that Ford guys were (are) simply slower !!
Story can be much different on the gravel, but still do not understimate Sordo.....
And looking back for some years-all newcomers (Suzuki, Škoda, Hyundai, Seat) for the last ten years had no chance against the established teams as Subaru, Peugeot, Mitsubishi...So, they can be a kind of surprise in terms of speed; I wish them; but something is telling me this won't happen.....

Diddnt the C4 have a very clever centre diff that made the car very quick on tarmac? Something that the focus was lacking!
They (Sordo and Loeb) are two sealed surface experts, should be interesting to see howSordo fares in the mini on asphalt!

[N.O.T]

Diddnt the C4 have a very clever centre diff that made the car very quick on tarmac? Something that the focus was lacking!


NO, but thank you for sharing your imaginary visions with us....

[OldF]

“Mini closes on final specification for World Rally Car”

http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/mini_closes_on_final_specification_for_world_rally _car/

[tfp]

NO, but thank you for sharing your imaginary visions with us....

Er, ok, must have read something wrong then!

[Brother John]

I wish Mini&Prodrive&Meeke&Sordo all the best!! Thank god we''ll have the third manufacturer in the WRC!!
...

I like only what you say here, the rest of your text? we wil see what happens in 2012!

[koko0703]

And looking back for some years-all newcomers (Suzuki, Škoda, Hyundai, Seat) for the last ten years had no chance against the established teams as Subaru, Peugeot, Mitsubishi...So, they can be a kind of surprise in terms of speed; I wish them; but something is telling me this won't happen.....

Citroen!? They were participating in WRC with a kit car before 2001 but their first official appearance in top category is in 2001 and didn't start full campagin til 2003, so they are the newcomers who had quite a lot of success against Subaru, Peugeot, Mitsubishi.... :D

[Karukera]

Minus Peugeot who successfully jumped in a 2000 full season against the Mitsibishi, Subaru and Ford establishment.

Speed has always been obvious for the very first outing of each of the serious newcomers : Focus, 206, Xsara, C4, Fiesta, DS3 ...

[N.O.T]

the fiesta, c4,xsara, ds3 are not newcomers...

[Karukera]

the fiesta, c4,xsara, ds3 are not newcomers...

In case you missed something in my post, i was refering to the very first official WRC rally of each cars quoted and as such they were/are newcomers.

[N.O.T]

again they are not newcomers...the manufacturers had experience of the wrc before launching those cars...

[Karukera]

Stop messing with my tropical vocabulary you. :s tare:

Experience or not, jumping from a Xasra Kit car to a WRC, launching a brand new Focus/C4 WRC car or swapping 2l to 1.6l is always a new beginning = newcomers, if you allow me please, thank you.

Back to Mini topic. As said, all those new cars mentioned above showed immediate speed. Sordo in a DS3 would be 6th speedwise in Sardinia (without attrition) with a handful of 3rd-5th best times on stages and we don't know yet Meeke's pace. This is about where the Mini cursor is. Clean tarmac rallies will also tell where they are.

[N.O.T]

no they are not...sorry.