Prodrive Mini WRC

[JAM]

Armindo Araujo Press Release of August 22th

Armindo Araújo: The truth, always

Following the media release issued by Motorsport Italia, informing that Armindo Araújo and Miguel
Ramalho will no longer be part of WRC TEAM MINI PORTUGAL, Armindo Araújo considers that now is
the right time to issue this statement after compiling all the facts and seek the truth. Therefore he
would like to clarify all points linked to this matter:

I- There were clear objectives set for the project in 2012. We started the season with a
very interesting result in Rally Montecarlo but only in Rally Sweden we launched the
WRC TEAM MINI PORTUGAL. From Rally Mexico onwards, Motorsport Italia attempted to
camouflage all the technical problems and blame the faults of the same, to the drivers
Armindo Araújo and Paulo Nobre. From this moment also, Motorsport Italia, tried to
object against my Media Releases, arguing that there were negative mentions to the
team and Mini itself. I would like to reiterate that all Media releases were previously
approved by Mini Portugal and in no circumstance there were no negative references to
them. I always defended the team and brand with whom I was linked to.

II - To prepare the asphalt phase of WRC and the new MINI JCW WRC version 01B, I was
invited by Motorsport Italia, on the 17th of July, 2012, for a test program to be held in
Italy between 10th and 12th of August. Only on the 8th of August, 2012, I received the
GPS coordinates of the location. During the three days I’ve stayed in Italy and I was not
allowed to test the car, instead I was put under pressure to declare myself sick and to
take part of Rally Germany - in attachment proposal from Motorsport Italia, of my
incapability, writing their own text to communicate the "disease". At that time I could
not believe I was receiving such proposal or suggestion.

III- On the 15th of August 2012, Motorsport Italia, requests me permission to use the
license of WRC TEAM MINI PORTUGAL - which exclusively belongs to Armindo Araújo,
Lda - to be used with another driver up till the end of the season. For obvious reasons I
declined the permission to use the license. On the following day the 16th of August,
Motorsport Italia informed me that I am no longer the driver of the team or any
associated team of the group starting from Rally Germany and till the end of the season
with no justification or valid explanation.

IV- On the 17th of August, I informed Motorsport Italia, MINI Germany and MINI
Portugal that I have collected all necessary documentation about this matter and deliver
it to my team of lawyers, lead by Dr. José Pedro Gomes, who will take all necessary legal
actions to protect my name and as well the project which I respect enormously and now
sees national values in stake.

V- It has been always my position to seek for the truth and respect the justice. All my
Sponsors have been already informed of all the facts and support me entirely on my
decision to take this matter to legal action. For all said above, and due to the straight link
to my image, myself and my sponsors agree to remove all the advertising of car number
12 of WRC TEAM MINI PORTUGAL.

To finish, I would like to inform that according to my duty, I have reported all the facts
to FIA, and I am currently waiting for their feedback, believing that the truth is above all,
and the good name of myself, my Sponsors and my Country is reestablished and honored
respectfully.

Link to the proposal from Motorsport Italia, of my incapability, writing their own text to communicate the "disease". (http://iris.cpidt.pt/projectos/sportmotores/img/fotos/27570.pdf)

[N.O.T]

Tourist driver vs amateurish team....

Who will win ?

Who cares ?

LOL

[GigiGalliNo1]

But N.O.T

If it were Ogier or another well known driver what would you be saying?


It has nothing to do with what kind of driver they are, it's the principle of what has happened!

[kirungi okwogera]

I care - we can't just talk about Loeb all the time. I think this is an interesting story. Araujo won two PWRCs - yes that's an easier feat than WRC but I was surprised as I feel he is not a 15th-place driver, skill wise. There may be more to the story to come. Technical problems or an ill-prepared team can easily derail a campaign. I am not some Portuguese nationalist or something but I expected more of Armindo and wonder at his results this year.

We all enjoy reading Antony Warmbold's behind-the-scenes of his team/privateer situation (despite him not being as fast as Loeb, N.O.T.) and I am curious to learn more about how a team Araujo has been so involved in is able to pressure him to leave. It's interesting to see Atkinson in a WRC car again, but what weird circumstances to be driving in this team another driver built and gained sponsors for, and now was forced out.

[Coach 2]

I agree that the results of Ar.Ar. this season is very strange. Would like to think he was / is faster than the results indicate.
But we must also remember that the team must think of its reputation.
And mabye, i said mabye, he's not faster after all.

[N.O.T]

But N.O.T

If it were Ogier or another well known driver what would you be saying?


It has nothing to do with what kind of driver they are, it's the principle of what has happened!

i do not know what your age is but you should start thinking before posting...please.

IF it was Ogier or another well known driver the chances are he would not have to be in a C class team... and the chances also would be that the results would be there and there would be NO chance in a million years a never been to steal his seat like that....

Why atko didn't replace sordo tanak neuville ostberg ????

[GigiGalliNo1]

Meeke? Everyone ravs on about him... sorry I wrote Ogier... He was in Jr Citroen team before... so that's B class team...

[JAM]

Tourist driver vs amateurish team....

Who will win ?

Who cares ?

LOL

If you write in a world class forum like this, is obvious that not only Loeb & friends have place on the WRC scene. There is place for everybody, and you are a good example :D

I wrote some months ago that Armindo is not a driver as fast as Loeb or Latvala, but is not as weak as the results with the Mini shown. The conditions on this team were unbelievable, and now is Armindo himself exposing that, and this dismiss of Armindo is something also umblievable.

[Andre Oliveira]

I see Armindo do fantastic exhibitions. He start rally carrer in 2000, and he was champion in these year at National Promotion Championship (Win at 2nd event).
I see Armindo with a Citroen Saxo Cup realize times aproach Saxo and Punto Kit Car.
I see Armindo beat Ford Escort RS Cosworth, Evo VI and others 4wd with a Saxo Kit Car on Portuguese Championship (half gravel half tarmac) and be champion against them.
I see Armindo play with Citroen Saxo Kit Car like playstation :)
I see Armindo 4 times Portuguese Champion (2x Citroen Saxo Kit Car 2x Mitsubishi Lancer Evo).
I see Armindo fly with little Citroen and imponent Mitsibishi.
I see Armindo (with less suporter and sponsers) be 2x PWRC champion.

Armindo isn't a Loeb or a Latvala, but is defenitly not a Nobre or Oliveira (respect this guys).
It is very difficult be top driver in Portugal, litle market and poor people which atack all (Armindo have many fans, but some stupid people want a Loeb S) ). Armindo, nationality apart, have my respect and admiration. We need guys like him. Gave him a test session's for sure he do beautifull things (no 8x times champion), but regular points :)

Difference between him and Wilson? -> Papa Wilson :)
It's difficult pass to letters what i see so many years, but Armindo is one of my idols.

I have completed some rallys on eWRC database of him, see here (http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=229&t=Armindo-Araujo) (Introducing 2000 season)

Sorry for my poor english :)

[N.O.T]

In a few hours we will see if those accusations about crap car were true or not....

[Andre Oliveira]

Well, Armindo with a standard version and little experience with WRC (1.5 season + 1 rally with Mitsubishi and 1 test with Ford) or Atkinson with O1B with so many experience... Super equal. And, off course that Atkinson is better driver than Armindo. People can't be fair with comparisions?

[TyPat107]

In a few hours we will see if those accusations about crap car were true or not....
This is my thinking but I fear the supporters who will claim the car has been upgraded or changed for atkinson and it's all about the car not Armindo.

[JAM]

In a few hours we will see if those accusations about crap car were true or not....

Crap car was the version used until now by Armindo. Atkinson is using the brand new 01B.

Let's see if MSi and Atkinson can put this car running fast. I have my doubts...

[Plan9]

Meeke? Everyone ravs on about him... sorry I wrote Ogier... He was in Jr Citroen team before... so that's B class team...

To be fair he was pretty legendary during his time in JWRC for instance.

[Andre Oliveira]

Armindo said on interview to portuguese channel SIC Noticias that the MSI doesn't like that Armindo have say to journalists after Rally Finland that he doesn't realize test before the event. MSI told him that the make (MINI) could ask the team what they do to the money that they put on MSI.

[dimviii]

Armindo said on interview to portuguese channel SIC Noticias that the MSI doesn't like that Armindo have say to journalists after Rally Finland that he doesn't realize test before the event. MSI told him that the make (MINI) could ask the team what they do to the money that they put on MSI.

interesting....have you got a link?

[JAM]

MSI told him that the make (MINI) could ask the team what they do to the money that they put on MSI.

Maybe, or maybe could ask to MSI why they have a new 01B on the garage, and denied that car to Armindo in Greece and Finland...

[GigiGalliNo1]

Exactly!

[Andre Oliveira]

interesting....have you got a link?

In Portuguese only:


http://videos.sapo.pt/cZwADLAMoy5eyPOOyZ53

[MJW]

I would like to congratulate Prodrive and Dani Sordo / Carlos Del Barrio on their 5th place at day 1. This is from a 'private' team and as such Dani was refused the opportunity to run a gravel noting crew. Sure certain individual pi$$ed off Munich paymasters but there are good guys working at Prodrive (diminishing by the month seemingly) and I would like to show my support to these genuine hard working guys.

[Ticoveva]

THAT’S VERY!!! THANKS http://smil.pro/smilies/winking0017.gif (http://smil.pro)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Yvan Muller will almost certainly be on a Prodrive Mini on Rallye de France...

Who's car?

[N.O.T]

Yvan Muller will almost certainly be on a Prodrive Mini on Rallye de France...

Who's car?

prodrives....

[Juha_Koo]

I have to say I was a bit disappointed with Mini WRC's speed in Germany. I had dreamed of Sordo fighting for the second place, with luck maybe even for the win. He had many days of tests (and somesort of upgraded 01B?) but still the overall performance was quite lame. Okay, there was a long competition pause and it's never easy when one lacks the routine so it's understandable.

[Rally Power]

What's most regrettable about the MSI/Armindo mess is the factual confirmation that BMW interest over WRC is very weak and the unusual involvement in this year championship was only due to the FIA homologation requirements.

With no further legal obligations towards the FIA, will BMW terminate the MINI participation on WRC at this season end, ceasing the car future development?

Is there any hope that a turnabout on the WRC MINI troublesome adventure is possible and BMW could regain interest over the project?

[Prisoner Monkeys]

I think it all depends on Sebastien Loeb. He represents one of the major barriers to entry for new manufacturers: no matter how good their car is and how competitive their drivers are, he is virtually untouchable. Why bother entering if you can't compete with him? Sure, there are other teams competing, but they're established. I'm talking about start-up projects. Volkswagen are taking a huge risk, but I think they know Loeb won't be around forever, and if they spend time developing their cars, they'll be ideally-positioned to take advantage of the inevitable power vaccuum. And while Mini are in their second year of competition, they've been pretty half-assed about it. Their attitude reminds me of the manufacturers who used to do half-season campaigns and talk about a full entry the next year, but then they would lose interest.

If Loeb retires, then the championship will be blown wide open, and that will make things very appealing to new manufacturers. They will have the opportunity to carve out a niche for themselves.

[Rally Power]

Yes, Loeb dominance is overwhelming but it cannot be dissociated from Citroen full and direct commitment over the sport.

By using less funding and external companies, Ford and specially BMW never showed that kind of involvement and that’s why they cannot match the Citroen/Loeb wining pair.

On the other hand VW’s, and let’s hope also Toyota’s in a near future, attitude will certainly be much more challenging towards Citroen/Loeb supremacy, because it uses a similar technical and financial support.

Perhaps more than Loebs eventual departure – and it could be related - Citroen’s expected budget cuts, due to fragile economical situation of PSA, could ease the competition on the WRC field.

[skarderud]

is Sweden wrt or what they calling themselves going to be in a mini anymore?

[Prisoner Monkeys]

There is no Sweden WRT. There is Mini Portugal, and while their right to use that name is open to interpretation, I haven't heard anything that would suggest they are looking to switch makes. Nor have I heard anything that suggests Prodrive WRC is thinking about changing - if anything, they'll probably try and make a case for themselves being reinstated as the Mini works team.

[Plan9]

@PM- I believe that skarderud was referring to Sandell's operation. He was meant to do more European events after Portugal but it has all gone quite. Although he is doing the Chinese Rally Championship again for some reason (maybe someone on here knows why he made this choice).

[noel157]

Yes, wonder what happened to the Sweden WRT? Didn't they have a 3 yr plan to deliver Sweden's first WRC champion since Stig Blomqvist ?

[Mintexmemory]

I think it all depends on Sebastien Loeb. He represents one of the major barriers to entry for new manufacturers: no matter how good their car is and how competitive their drivers are, he is virtually untouchable. Why bother entering if you can't compete with him?

Loeb is a fantastic driver and a worthy champion but let's not forget he is at the pinnacle of a major investment project over 10 years which has left other drivers attempting to compete with one hand tied behind their backs, especially in the ability to fund continuous incremental improvement


Sure, there are other teams competing, but they're established. I'm talking about start-up projects. Volkswagen are taking a huge risk, but I think they know Loeb won't be around forever, and if they spend time developing their cars, they'll be ideally-positioned to take advantage of the inevitable power vaccuum.

I don't think German companies take big risks, they look to be meticulously planning how to beat Citroen. I don't buy the stories of how the Polo isn't performing to the required standard yet. I would not be surprised if they have not allowed anyone to see how they run in optimum set up. They have been comparing settings, driving styles etc and have so much more analysis available to them than either M-Sport or Prodrive could afford. This is the first truly works competition that Citroen will have faced. I think with Ogier (best motivated driver they could have) they are hoping to beat Citroen / Loeb fair and square


And while Mini are in their second year of competition, they've been pretty half-assed about it. Their attitude reminds me of the manufacturers who used to do half-season campaigns and talk about a full entry the next year, but then they would lose interest.

I'd have said quarter-assed -very difficult for a private developer to run a team when expected funding doesn't materialise - Possibly Dodgy Dave was overly-optimistic regarding BMW support for what is clearly his project but I hope the Bavarians look at Wolfsburg with envious eyes next year and provide the necessary funds / facilities for the Mini to be competitive


If Loeb retires, then the championship will be blown wide open, and that will make things very appealing to new manufacturers. They will have the opportunity to carve out a niche for themselves.
Or they may take the view that VW have such a head start that it isn't worth trying to compete - Seb Ogier 1 more championship than Loeb being the quest, I fully expect that will be the long term plan!

[Plan9]

Yes, wonder what happened to the Sweden WRT? Didn't they have a 3 yr plan to deliver Sweden's first WRC champion since Stig Blomqvist ?

Done a Go Fast on us maybe. I can only think that they are waiting for BMW to make up their minds about doing WRC or DTM (why not do both?)

[kober]

I can only think that they are waiting for BMW to make up their minds about doing WRC or DTM (why not do both?)DTM or WRC is not really a choice that BMW need to make, because they've made their decision already. BMW are doing DTM, and they certainly will be doing it in the nearest future. The question is: are they willing to spend some leftover money on WRC?

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Yes, wonder what happened to the Sweden WRT? Didn't they have a 3 yr plan to deliver Sweden's first WRC champion since Stig Blomqvist ?
If that's the case, I don't know what is stopping them from becoming a customer team to one of the other manufacturers. If they want Sweden's first champion since Blomqvist, then nominating to run a Mini was probably the worst decisions they could have made. The car is certainly being developed, but the problem is that everyone else is developing faster than they are. If they were dead serious about it, they'd side with Volkswagen and run a customer team for Sandell and Andersson.

[JAM]

DTM or WRC is not really a choice that BMW need to make, because they've made their decision already. BMW are doing DTM, and they certainly will be doing it in the nearest future. The question is: are they willing to spend some leftover money on WRC?

They spent the money that they had planned. The problem was Prodrive that didn't found the promised budget to fund part of 2012 season.

As BMW entered with Mini on the WRC with a lack of confidence on the project (it was a favour from BMW no Mini guys...), when the things went bad they simply abandoned it and stoped working on a solution.

[JAM]

Chris Atkinson will use the Mini 01A in Wales? MI will return to the old car?

[Andre Oliveira]

Because they had no time to change the tarmac car to gravel specs.

[Francis44]

Because they had no time to change the tarmac car to gravel specs.


My guess is that we will only see the MI 01B again this year in France. I suspect they will use the old version again in Spain.

[dimviii]

Because they had no time to change the tarmac car to gravel specs.

where did you read that?

[stefanvv]

Good joke. So in Catalunya they will retire after the first leg? :D

:D Funny. Wasn't last year the first leg on gravel? And when teams have two cars per driver - one gravel, one tarmac, which one they use in Catalunya?

[mousti]

No two cars per driver, just one car like always, friday night they put the asphalt setting on the car for the rest of the weekend..

[JAM]

Now you understand how this team works

[Andre Oliveira]

where did you read that?
Portuguese Autosport (http://autosport.sapo.pt/chris-atkinson-com-mini-jcw-wrc-01a-na-gra-bretanha=f107851)

[Plan9]

Are we to interpret this as a good or bad sign? (ie does not using the 01B in GB mean they are short of cash or just smart operators on a budget?)

[Plan9]

In other news Meeke is still trying to get a foothold in the WRC again:

World Rally Championship - News - Politician Meeke wants WRC return (http://www.wrc.com/news/politician-meeke-wants-wrc-return/?fid=17387)

[Andre Oliveira]

I only think that all MINI Rally project is a joke. MSI is a funny thing too ;)

[Andre Oliveira]

Armindo will be back in 2013, he have contract with MINI until 2012 (He said: I have contract with MINI until 31st December 2012. Inside and outside the car i defend MINI) MINI Portugal is alongside him.

Armindo Araújo de regresso em 2013 | Facebook


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=484480774904878 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=484480774904878)

[noel157]

Are we to interpret this as a good or bad sign? (ie does not using the 01B in GB mean they are short of cash or just smart operators on a budget?)

Long time since they've been any good signs coming out of Prodrive.

[kober]

I've noticed that Sordo and Yvan Muller have been confirmed for Prodrive for Rallye d'Alsace. How many Mini WRC do Prodrive have available currently? Also Porsche's factory driver Romain Dumas will start in the rally in a Automeca prepared Mini WRC - what's the history of the car?

[Plan9]

Sandell did the recce of Wales with Motorsport Italia. Do I take it that they will be his partners now??

[Co-driven]

Sandell did the recce of Wales with Motorsport Italia. Do I take it that they will be his partners now??

Wasn't it because of the Sweden WRT plan?

By the way, Paulo Nobre felt ill before recce started and he said that he nominated Sandell as the one to drive in his place if he hadn't conditions to do it.

[dimviii]

Colin with Atko
what did he answered at 1,53 about lc?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNbm22MfPUQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[mousti]

There is launch control on the car but it's quite easy to start without it so he a did a 'normal' start, if I understood correct :p

[Rally Hokkaido]

"there is launch control, but it's easy to start without it so I'll do that"

[dimviii]

thanks mates!

[TyPat107]

Each time Colin has done a ride along, he has his belts incorrect for the HANS device. This one was better than her proton video but still scary

[Mirek]

There is launch control on the car but it's quite easy to start without it so he a did a 'normal' start, if I understood correct :p

Unlike the previous generation cars this is not a proper LC. Since the car has no hydraulics and no active diffs there is nothing to lock or to drive automatically in my opinion. I think that it's just an adjustable rpm limitation for better traction on startline like it is used in some S1600 or S2000 cars (works Škodas use it only on loose surface, otherwise they start from redline; some privateers use it also on asphalt to save driveshafts).

[darkstar]

isn´t that button on the handbrake? i have something like this in mind...

looks like it here also:
http://72.img.v4.skyrock.net/8130/49878130/pics/2261151631_small_2.jpg

[OldF]

In the last issue of “Vauhdin Maailma” was an article where few reporters got a change to drive the Fiesta WRC on M-Sport’s test track.

At least the Finnish reporter was not used to clutch and he wrote:

“Latvala sitting in the co-driver seat kept conscientiously pressing the startbutton at least 10 times to get the engine running again”. :D

[dimviii]

a proper LC in a turbocharged car has to build also pressure from turbo,not just the revs.At evos we use to have 0,5-0,7 bar stationary at 4500rpm.If you dont have pressure but only revs mostly you will stall at start in an asphalt dry road.
Of course LC in a normal transmission is not the better thing you can do in a 1500kg 4wdrive with sticky tyres.

[Leon]

we heard from Citroen, peugeot, hyundai........

anything from the MINI camp? or............who cares now

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Peugeot an Hyundai were unveiling new cars.

As for Citroen, they're a French manufacturer, and the Paris Motor Show is in France, so it's natural for them to want to use it as a platform.

I wouldn't go reading too much into Mini not really doing or saying anything there.

[stefanvv]

we heard from Citroen, peugeot, hyundai........

anything from the MINI camp? or............who cares now

Actually it would be better with more manufacturers, so it is not meaningless. Unfortunately though I don't see anything happening in that direction, probably it is dead project.

[GigiGalliNo1]

How long is Sordo contract?

[Kielder]

How long is Sordo contract?

It is a two year contract, which ends this season. Too long after what happened...

[Juha_Koo]

Tomi Tuominen is claiming in his blog that "Mini will come back in a notably stronger way about in a year".

"I have certain inside information if that's how you want it to be called. Mini is constantly working behind the scenes and this current situation is quite understandable, it involves certain contract issues, etc. Things can always change, but at the moment this is how things are."

[Abarth]

Perhaps BMW motorsport would give the project more support if they went for R5 and got more volume into the project?

[Barreis]

BMW are not losers. They don't give money for nothing. DTM has much more publicity and that's why they invest there. End of story.

[navtheace]

MINI ceases works involvement in the WRC. / News / MINI Motorsport (http://www.minimotorsport.com/en/news/mini_ceases_works_involvement_in_the_wrc)

[J.Lindstroem]

BMW are not losers. They don't give money for nothing. DTM has much more publicity and that's why they invest there. End of story.

Ok so why did they put it that money in the first place. I wouldn't say its totally looser-unlike to invest in something and then change your mind ang go another way...

[alleskids]

I don't think BMW did put spend money extra for WRC. the 1.6 turbo engine is also used in WTCC, maybe some different engine mapping, but most enginering was useful research. the rest of the car and program and budget had to come from Prodrive.

[Plan9]

It look like without any mini/bmw invlovement, the JCW cars have no reason to be in the WRC. They will not be allowed to score manufacturer points. How does that add value to WRC or the car company?

[JAM]

It look like without any mini/bmw invlovement, the JCW cars have no reason to be in the WRC. They will not be allowed to score manufacturer points. How does that add value to WRC or the car company?

It helps Prodrive making some money with the rent and maintenance of the cars.

[Plan9]

Well at least now they will have some company at the bottom with Malcolm. I am so disappointed in MINI and Dave about this. I can't believe this has been cocked up so badly. Who would invest in this project now? All the good work of Meeke, Sordo and Wilcock down the ****ter...

[vino_93]

what is the relationship btw Prodrive and MI ?
I saw that Muller was in Prodrive team ... but the car he drove in France was used by MI in the beginning of the season ... and now Atko is using a car drove by Sordo at the begining of the year :/

[Sulland]

What are the strong sides of the Mini?
What areas do they need to improve before 13, to get closer to the top?

[bluuford]

Sordo summed it up very shortly. " car is just perfect we just need 15 (or was it 50) more horsepowers..

[Wasted Talent]

Sordo summed it up very shortly. " car is just perfect we just need 15 (or was it 50) more horsepowers..

Hmmm ..... and the engine is the BMW developed part.........

WT

[stefanvv]

Sordo summed it up very shortly. " car is just perfect we just need 15 (or was it 50) more horsepowers..

I thought all WRC cars are limited to 300bhp. Did BMW gave so weak engine, hard to believe really.

[tolis]

So, Nikara will drive for Mini next year?

[dimviii]

I thought all WRC cars are limited to 300bhp. Did BMW gave so weak engine, hard to believe really.

300 at theory.

[cali]

I thought all WRC cars are limited to 300bhp. Did BMW gave so weak engine, hard to believe really.
How can you limit the amount of horsepowers?

[stefanvv]

How can you limit the amount of horsepowers?

Restrictor? But Dimvii is right, this is just the theory base.

[mousti]

Indeed at Theory, because I thought with the 01b that they already won some horsepower?

[EightGear]

In the wrc.com article from some time ago it was reported that Prodrive was developing an update to the engine in conjunction with BMW Motorsport. They said it should give the Mini a performance boost for 2013.

[stefanvv]

Indeed at Theory, because I thought with the 01b that they already won some horsepower?

Can you imagine how quickly engines have been developed (upgraded) these days :eek:

[Tom206wrc]

Dani Sordo on Facebook writes goodbye to Prodrive...I guess he joins Citroën :confused:

[Mirek]

Indeed at Theory, because I thought with the 01b that they already won some horsepower?

Last Mini engine erratum was homologated on 1st September 2012. Don't know what exactly it was and how it helped.

[Plan9]

I think it is disgraceful that Prodrive was not able to keep Sordo. It shows how bad things are when your most useful asset walks back to Citroen as a stand-in, not even a number 2 proper. I can't imagine who DR will find for his cars now.

[skarderud]

I've heard Henning Solberg has everything economic ready for a fulltime wrc campaign next year. Maybe a link to prodrive? Or m-sport, they also need people with money these days :)

[rallyfiend]

I think it is disgraceful that Prodrive was not able to keep Sordo. It shows how bad things are when your most useful asset walks back to Citroen as a stand-in, not even a number 2 proper. I can't imagine who DR will find for his cars now.

Do Prodrive have a team next year to keep him for?

I'd be surprised if they are in Monte Carlo - or any other events next year - with anything other than paying customers. And only when they come along.

They (nor anyone else with a Mini) can't have a registered team unless the Manufacturer fee is paid - and from the sounds of the BMW press release, that ain't gonna happen.

[Mintexmemory]

[quote="rallyfiend"]Do Prodrive have a team next year to keep him for?

I'd be surprised if they are in Monte Carlo - or any other events next year - with anything other than paying customers. And only when they come along.
QUOTE]

Usually no shortage of paying customers for MC as all the French vets get squeezed into their overalls for maybe their last hurrah (Delecour last year) and the young wanabees seek to impress (Bouffier, Chardonnet, Campana etc.)

[Georgi]

I've heard Henning Solberg has everything economic ready for a fulltime wrc campaign next year. Maybe a link to prodrive? Or m-sport, they also need people with money these days :)

I'm happy to hear this kind of news for Henning. He is a nice guy. Spectacular on snow and gravel. It will be good to add him to WRC 2013.

[ShiftingGears]

Dani Sordo on Facebook writes goodbye to Prodrive...I guess he joins Citroën :confused:

I hope so. He would have to be a favourite for tarmac events.

[muratgunarslan]

anybody knows something about Kris Meeke? Why doesnt he drive a Mini? Does he have budget problem or any other problem?

[Iskald]

I've heard Henning Solberg has everything economic ready for a fulltime wrc campaign next year. Maybe a link to prodrive? Or m-sport, they also need people with money these days :)

It may be that you are correct on this one, but I don`t think so...

[Sulland]

So what do you think Iskald, wrt Henning S?

[OldF]

They got 3 percent more power from the engine in March homologation.

prodrive (http://www.prodrive.com/p_archive.html?id=333&pagenum=1)

“A major focus has been development of the 1.6 litre turbo engine, with a result that the newly homologated engine has a three per cent increase in peak power. To achieve this, Prodrive has redesigned the induction system with a new restrictor and restrictor feed…….”

And more to come next year.

From iRally 11.11.2012

iRally | The free independent Rally App for the iPhone, iPad and Android (http://irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00002448)

“Just last week our race engineers found some significant extra performance in the engine, which we didn't have time to include here, and there is another major mechanical upgrade due in March."

Prodrive press release 5.11.2012

prodrive (http://www.prodrive.com/p_releases.html?id=363)

Prodrive’s team of race engine engineers is working with BMW Motorsport to enhance the performance of the MINI’s 1.6 litre turbo engine.

[donlorean]

I'm happy to hear this kind of news for Henning. He is a nice guy...
Nice guy, just slow one... I don't think that WRC need's him any more... There is many many young drivers that I like to see more in WRC than Henning... Sadly He's got money so he can buy a seat for him...

[bennizw]

I was told in the start of May during a national rally event in Norway that Henning was supposed to be competing the rest of the WRC season - that didn't happen... Find it hard to believe that he will be back with a full assault for next year after this.

[skarderud]

Yeah, lots of rumours around Henning, as always :)
maybe its just b.s.
time will show.
Maybe prodrive do only the european rallies anyway, with paying drivers. Who know's? :)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Don't forget that MINI have sponsors that they've spoken to for a while. The only issue was having a promoter ie now RedBull are in, their discussions will begin again and are doing a full 2013 campaign. Don't worry.

[Mintexmemory]

Don't forget that MINI have sponsors that they've spoken to for a while. The only issue was having a promoter ie now RedBull are in, their discussions will begin again and are doing a full 2013 campaign. Don't worry.
If, of course, you believe that piece of PR spin. If Prodrive really were in bed with Samsung then there should be nothing to stop the relationship being established. Time will tell, just that Dodgy Dave always reminds me of a used car salesman!

[GigiGalliNo1]

But why would you tell people and the media that you have been speaking to clients and sponsors about getting branding on the car but they can't lock anything in because the sport is NOT being shown on TV, in the news and online like it should be!

Who would sponsor anything if its not being shown properly?! It's legit.

Otherwise, why say it. It'll just push people away. Letting others know this is an issue with the sport and now everything working ie with RedBull it'll attract back the sponsor talks.

[Abarth]

Maybe Meeke and Henning would be a good solution for Mini in 2013.
Meeke for free, Henning paying.

[Mintexmemory]

But why would you tell people and the media that you have been speaking to clients and sponsors about getting branding on the car but they can't lock anything in because the sport is NOT being shown on TV, in the news and online like it should be!

Who would sponsor anything if its not being shown properly?! It's legit.

Otherwise, why say it. It'll just push people away. Letting others know this is an issue with the sport and now everything working ie with RedBull it'll attract back the sponsor talks.

Have you never heard of playing poker with a bad hand? If a potential sponsor thinks they are the only option then they can make a 'take it or leave it' offer. If they aren't the only show in town and they are keen to be exposed via WRC then the team has a bargaining lever. Mmmm. much to learn have you about the dark side! DD Richards is probably looking to tie a deal with anyone he can find at the moment but he desperately won't want them to think he can't go elsewhere!

Re. The Henning / Kris suggestion -Thought Jarko had a contract?! (Oh yes - it's a "Prodrive" contract ;) - do not expose to sunlight, naked flames or contract lawyers)

[Viking]

""Now we have to move on, confirm our programme and driver line up for next year and continue with our development programme in order to achieve our goal of securing a maiden MINI win in the WRC."

iRally | The free independent Rally App for the iPhone, iPad and Android (http://irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00002460)

[navtheace]

Will the Paceman become the new MINI for the WRC ?

http://www.mini.co.uk/files/7813/4756/0028/MINI_Paceman_1.jpg

http://www.mini.co.uk/files/1813/4756/0059/MINI_Paceman_2.jpg

[TyPat107]

What are the chances Prodrive will use this car sometime down the development road?

Detroit Preview: Mini Paceman concept relieves Countryman of extra doors (http://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/19/detroit-preview-mini-paceman-concept-relieves-the-countryman-of/)


Will the Paceman become the new MINI for the WRC ?

http://www.mini.co.uk/files/7813/4756/0028/MINI_Paceman_1.jpg

http://www.mini.co.uk/files/1813/4756/0059/MINI_Paceman_2.jpg

i asked the same almost 2 years ago. I think this car would look more spectacular as a wrc car compared to the countryman

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

It is almost same car that Countryman so I don´t think so. And I think it will take time when NEW MINI WRC will come if ever.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Paceman is a two door version of the Countryman

[Plan9]

Is Juho still in the running to get a customer mini? I know he was in talks with MI; but that was before BMW finally pulled the plug...

[Mirek]

I don't think so. My guess is he is in talks with Malcolm now. One thing is sure, he has a backup solution because his door to Škoda are kept opened.

[sete]

I wish for Juho the best possible WRC car for next season(s) and nice to hear if it not hapenn the door in Škoda are still openen

[navtheace]

i asked the same almost 2 years ago. I think this car would look more spectacular as a wrc car compared to the countryman

Nice one TyPat. You were well ahead there timewise.

If the paceman does become the car Prodrive move towards, it will only be half ugly from the Country(ugly)man.

[Plan9]

I would not want to guess who will be in Prodrive next year. I only hope they will be registered in the championship with Mini as otherwise I fear they will not be shown on tv at all.
On Juho, I think Prodrive would be a good option for him if its still possible. He has had a great time during the GFC as he wa paid to drive for Skoda but maybe its now or never for the WRC and him.

[Mirek]

On Juho, I think Prodrive would be a good option for him if its still possible. He has had a great time during the GFC as he wa paid to drive for Skoda but maybe its now or never for the WRC and him.

In which way is Prodrive better option? They need hell of a money to continue and in the moment their car is worse than the one of M-Sport.

[Plan9]

I don't think that Juho has any chance of an M-Sport seat now. Prodrive has been pretty free and easy with the prostitute car so I felt he had a better chance with them.

[rallyfiend]

I don't think that Juho has any chance of an M-Sport seat now. Prodrive has been pretty free and easy with the prostitute car so I felt he had a better chance with them.

When has M-Sport or Prodrive ever declined to give a car to someone with the right amount of money?

[KickenRallySport]

PG Andersson and Juho Hanninen in Prodrives MINI 2013!

[GigiGalliNo1]

Motorsport Italia are selling all spec MINI WRC cars.. For Sale!

[mousti]

I hope with loads of discount for that Rubbish :D

[Cacatua]

PG Andersson and Juho Hanninen in Prodrives MINI 2013!

I've just seen this on twitter and I've seen too that it doesn't seem to be true at all (yet).

[Mintexmemory]

PG Andersson and Juho Hanninen in Prodrives MINI 2013!

Source? or is this wishful thinking? - Note: idiot tweets don't count!!

[KickenRallySport]

I hope that would be true :-)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Idiot tweets are equal to rumor posts here?

Then some of us are idiots too ;)

[tommeke_B]

Idiot tweets are equal to rumor posts here?

Then some of us are idiots too ;)

It doesn't take much to sort the idiots from the serious people here...

[BDA Cosworth]

It doesn't take much to sort the idiots from the serious people here...

If you guys are idiots then I am the king of them. lol.

[Nornbugger]

PG Andersson and Juho Hanninen in Prodrives MINI 2013!

Hope it isnt true, I have asked Santa to give Juho a RRC Fiesta to win ERC with and also to let him do 6 WRC events in a works Fiesta WRC, normally he is good to me so fingers crossed...

[Mirek]

What would be the point for Juho to move to M-Sport for ERC? He can stay with Škoda, be paid by Škoda and win the ERC in 2014 with a car developed himself. The problem is why. Winning second-tier series again and again is hardly his goal now...

[tolis]

@Mirek: So, what are you expecting for Hanninen to drive next season? What's your feeling?

[Nornbugger]

What would be the point for Juho to move to M-Sport for ERC? He can stay with Škoda, be paid by Škoda and win the ERC in 2014 with a car developed himself. The problem is why. Winning second-tier series again and again is hardly his goal now...

Actually I think a season like I outlined would be good for him(and for MSport too) with plan for full season in '14, certainly I think Mini WRC will do nothing for his prospects. A full season in WRC car when he doesnt know many events could be a challenge to far? Has he done recce for many/any of the events this year that he did not compete on?

[Mirek]

Actually I think a season like I outlined would be good for him(and for MSport too) with plan for full season in '14, certainly I think Mini WRC will do nothing for his prospects. A full season in WRC car when he doesnt know many events could be a challenge to far? Has he done recce for many/any of the events this year that he did not compete on?

He did recce for some but I don't know how many. I am pretty sure he will not pay for driving ERC. As I wrote before, there's no meaning in that.


@Mirek: So, what are you expecting for Hanninen to drive next season? What's your feeling?

I don't know if him or Lasse Lampi are able to find budget for some reasonable WRC program. If yes, it will be with M-Sport in my opinion. Otherwise he will be with Škoda developing R5. That's my point of view.

[tommeke_B]

Anyone wants to buy a Mini WRC?

01B Prodrive 2012 new: 395.000 €
01B Prodrive ex-Sordo (2012): 360.000 €
01B Prodrive ex-Nikara (2011): 330.000 €
01A Prodrive R-Tec Snijers (2011): 285.000 €

[vino_93]

What car will drive Snijers next year ? :confused:

[tommeke_B]

What car will drive Snijers next year ? :confused:
It depends... Most likely Mini if the Mini doesn't get sold. ;)

[stefanvv]

It depends... Most likely Mini if the Mini doesn't get sold. ;)

And if Mini gets sold?

[dupanton]

And if Mini gets sold?

A recent 2.0 WRC. (C4, Focus, S12, S14...)

[Plan9]

Any word yet on drivers? Or even what the Mini Program will be?

[bassist]

Any word yet on drivers? Or even what the Mini Program will be?

Well it said in Motorport News yesterday that Mini think they have a realistic chance of a Monte win next year, so I wonder who the drivers will be??

[Fri]

Loeb :)

[RS]

Well it said in Motorport News yesterday that Mini think they have a realistic chance of a Monte win next year, so I wonder who the drivers will be??

Given the performance towards the end of 2012 I don't agree.

[AndyRAC]

Well it said in Motorport News yesterday that Mini think they have a realistic chance of a Monte win next year, so I wonder who the drivers will be??

Maybe they've heard that VW, Citroen & M-Sport are giving the Monte a miss........ then they might have a chance.... ;)

[stefanvv]

Maybe they've heard that VW, Citroen & M-Sport are giving the Monte a miss........ then they might have a chance.... ;)

The might have also chance if all of them drive with hard compound tyres on the black ice, but Mini would be smarter and get proper tyres :D

[KickenRallySport]

Seashore Quatar World Rally Team... Maybe they have budget for prodrive??

[MikeD]

Seashore Quatar World Rally Team... Maybe they have budget for prodrive??

Don't think so - It's TokSport running that MINI, not Prodrive.

[rallyfiend]

Well it said in Motorport News yesterday that Mini think they have a realistic chance of a Monte win next year, so I wonder who the drivers will be??

That sounds like them getting some free advertising to me.

They say they have a good chance to win, but can't actually say who the driver is! Sounds like a PR piece to try and get people to want to use the cars.

[gravelman]

That sounds like them getting some free advertising to me.

They say they have a good chance to win, but can't actually say who the driver is! Sounds like a PR piece to try and get people to want to use the cars.

Given that dr started his business running cars in the middle east in the early to mid 80s, it astounds me that he has been unable to generate similar backing to that of ford and Citroen. They were very successful over there I must add.

[Barreis]

Investors for Aston Martin came from Middle East. That's more worth to him.

[gravelman]

Investors for Aston Martin came from Middle East. That's more worth to him.

Perhaps if we had a more prominent series in terms of promotion, a few quid could have been squeezed out of them

[ToughMac]

We haven't heard anything from Prodrive in the past number of weeks so maybe no news is good news? If they reckon their in with a shout of the Monte next year they could be about to land a surprise, you don't challenge for a win in Monte Carlo with a rookie.

[AndyRAC]

Perhaps if we had a more prominent series in terms of promotion, a few quid could have been squeezed out of them


If the series was in any kind of health getting sponsors wouldn't be an issue; teams, drivers, events, etc

[gravelman]

We haven't heard anything from Prodrive in the past number of weeks so maybe no news is good news? If they reckon their in with a shout of the Monte next year they could be about to land a surprise, you don't challenge for a win in Monte Carlo with a rookie.

Yeah but they probably will have mad frankie behind the wheel. He tested one lately. I'd like to hope that here's something brewing, but the car has had all its testing done on the stages for the past 9 months really and it's further away now from the competitors than it was 12 months ago. Unless there has been some significant investment, I can't see it happening. If anyone mentions campana, I'll split a lung laughing.

[Motorsportfun]

If the series was in any kind of health getting sponsors wouldn't be an issue; teams, drivers, events, etc

Agree. But I've to say Red Bull Media House is a great Promoter; that's the ultimate Promoter the WRC can get on board... Eurosport, compared to them, is just a beginner!

In three-years-time I think we'll have a great coverage and celebrity. We need now just some "weird" drivers, like Valentino Rossi in MotoGP or Lewis Hamilton in F1...

[EightGear]

That weird driver has just left unfortunately.

[Franky]

But I've to say Red Bull Media House is a great Promoter
Might be but we also have to take into an account that rallying is a completely different kind of beast. It is one of the least broadcast friendly sports.



In three-years-time I think we'll have a great coverage and celebrity.

I'd go more with the need to have characters. Celebrities sound a bit bad.

[Motorsportfun]

That weird driver has just left unfortunately.

I know, and I blame the terrible promotion of this year's WRC, which has made so difficult to catch any good sponsorship...


Might be but we also have to take into an account that rallying is a completely different kind of beast. It is one of the least broadcast friendly sports.

If you think skiing has HD, Live-TV on lots of free-to-air networks, then rallying, which is much more spectacular, could have its chance.


I'd go more with the need to have characters. Celebrities sound a bit bad.

A very good character is Ogier, another two are Ostberg and JML. IMHO they're good in PR activities... and have a look, for the future, to Chris Atkinson and Hayden Paddon... ;)

P.S.: a good idea would be Robert Kubica. At Rallye du Var he was ahead of Freddy Loix, I think he could do something good in the WRC... not like Valentino, which is too much slow. :D

[Plan9]

Killing 2 birds with 1 stone: Bring back Kris Meeke (a fast driver for Prodrive and a perso that fans respond to REALLY strongly)

[Frostmourne]

I said it in the news and rumors thread, but if Prodrive can convince Yazeed Al-Rajihi to get into WRC instead SWRC and give him a place in a 3 cars team as Qatar M sport and AbuDhabi Citroen, given he get sponsored from Saudi Arabia and to sponsor the whole team into manufacturers championship.

On other note, I am really hoping Redbull will do good job in promoting the sport, it is sad to see alot of teams driver dropping out because of lack of sponsors and money. Screw you Forumla 1 you greedy phony stupid motorsport :mad:

[KickenRallySport]

Any news about Mini/Prodrive 2013??? Witch drivers?? Monte??

[Cacatua]

Any news about Mini/Prodrive 2013??? Witch drivers?? Monte??

yeah! witches are more likely to be flying over Montecarlo than a Mini running the rally :p :

[noel157]

Nikara & Delecour?

[PLuto]

Prodrive is still talking that they will fight for win on Monte. So I vote for strong lineup Francois Delecour + Gilles Panizzi and maybe Didier Auriol as third driver :)

[noel157]

Prodrive is still talking that they will fight for win on Monte. So I vote for strong lineup Francois Delecour + Gilles Panizzi and maybe Didier Auriol as third driver :)

And Bruno Saby.......... :)

[spiderem]

And Bruno Saby.......... :)
lol. And i've heard a rumour about a junior team with Paddy Hopkirk and Rauno Aaltonen...

[sollitt]

Jean Ragnotti !!!

[A.F.F.]

There's also a strong rumour coming from Hollywood that Charles Bronson's tombstone has a part in Stallone's Expendables 3.

[sollitt]

It's now been revealed. Prodrive have been selecting between these 3 candidates. Two of them even have historic rallying names.
Meet Porter. The World's First Driving Dog. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWAK0J8Uhzk&feature=share)

[spiderem]

It's now been revealed. Prodrive have been selecting between these 3 candidates. Two of them even have historic rallying names.
Meet Porter. The World's First Driving Dog. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWAK0J8Uhzk&feature=share)
lol :)
And the co driver is not bad either ;)

[stefanvv]

It's now been revealed. Prodrive have been selecting between these 3 candidates. Two of them even have historic rallying names.
Meet Porter. The World's First Driving Dog. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWAK0J8Uhzk&feature=share)

:D :D They should have enough budget for biscuits.

[noel157]

Let's not get too carried away here.....with a half decent driver they could easily be 3rd best team on many events.

[Frostmourne]

Let's not get too carried away here.....with a half decent driver they could easily be 3rd best team on many events.

I really hope so.
I really would like to see Mini getting some good results this year, good drivers, and good 2013 campaign. I do not know, but I am very compassionate with Mini. Any news,rumors about Prodrive. Shouldn't Prodrive previous success with Subaru be a good selling point to attract drivers, sponsors and money to the team?

[big_sw2000]

Liam Doran maybe

Photo by liamdoran • Instagram (http://instagram.com/p/TJAHE2kQJ0/)

Steve

[mousti]

I think around 20-30 pilots were at Banbury testing the 01b today ;)

[Frostmourne]

Question: Why did not Prodrive approach Peter Solberg, don't they have history together? what do you think guys?

[MJW]

Question: Why did not Prodrive approach Peter Solberg, don't they have history together? what do you think guys?
As you said 'they had history'........

[Frostmourne]

As you said 'they had history'........

ah..really, I thought they were both on good terms! Anyway..I wish Mini good luck!

[alleskids]

the history was perfect from 1999 till...2004/2005? after that, the car got bad, the driver-team-manufacturer harmony got bad.
Petter stoped sending chtistmas cards to Prodrive nd Prodrive never more sended Christmas cards to Petter after 2005

[Xsara Fan]

the history was perfect from 1999 till...2004/2005? after that, the car got bad, the driver-team-manufacturer harmony got bad.
Petter stoped sending chtistmas cards to Prodrive nd Prodrive never more sended Christmas cards to Petter after 2005

Petter has bad history with Prodrive.
Petter has bad history with M-Sport.

But half of this forum tells us 'Petter is a good guy'. Strange situation...

[TyPat107]

What happened though? Did was it just complaining about the subarus when their performance started to dwindle?

[Sulland]

Petter was loyal to Subaru/Prodrive way to long, and should have left long before he did.
in the last very frustrating years with a shait car, Petter was not easy to be around, since this is his life, and not politics!

[Plan9]

Why did Petter stay with Prodrive so long? I read a rumor ages ago that he was offerend a works Xsara and tunred it down...

[Xsara Fan]

Why did Petter stay with Prodrive so long? I read a rumor ages ago that he was offerend a works Xsara and tunred it down...

I think the main question is money.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Why did Petter stay with Prodrive so long? I read a rumor ages ago that he was offerend a works Xsara and tunred it down...
Depending on the year - you say it was quite some time ago - it's possible that the Xsara was an unproven car and Solberg was hesitant to venture out into the unknown. Especially when he had a Prodrive-prepared Impreza to work with at the time.

[Plan9]

It was when Peugeot and Citroen made their choices between Duval and Martin. In those days Petter was at the front more often so of course he was offered it. Back then the Xsara was the car to have and very competitive almost everywhere. My guess would be that he did not want to be Number 2 and not be allowed to win, as came to pass with so many of Loeb's team mates.

[Viking]

Question: Why did not Prodrive approach Peter Solberg, don't they have history together? what do you think guys?

Because he has said it quite clear that he dont want to pay for a drive??

[EightGear]

Autosport is reporting that both M-Sport and Prodrive want to sign Neuville (at least for Monte Carlo). Now, if M-Sport does take Neuville, maybe Novikov will be in the Prodrive MINI?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Novikov is already testing M-Sport Fiesta in monte right now

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Yeah, the theory is that neither Novikov nor Neuville has the budget to complate a full season, but they could share the car.

[J.Lindstroem]

Yeah, the theory is that neither Novikov nor Neuville has the budget to complate a full season, but they could share the car.

Is that a fact? I thought Novikov was freaking made of money! :S

[Xsara Fan]

Yeah, the theory is that neither Novikov nor Neuville has the budget to complate a full season, but they could share the car.

Hmmm... Two crews in one car? 4 people? Or Evgeny and Therry in one crew? :)

[tolis]

Hmmm... Two crews in one car? 4 people? Or Evgeny and Therry in one crew? :)
He meant half rounds for Evgeny and half for Thierry...

[tommeke_B]

Yes Xsara fan. Tolis means: first 1,5 days for Evgeny, and then 1,5 days for Thierry... :D

[big_sw2000]

He meant half rounds for Evgeny and half for Thierry...

Not both drivers in the car at the same time. Swapping half way through the event.

Sorry silly i know

Steve

[tommeke_B]

Of course one big joke... Just as unrealistic as Neuville and Novikov in a Prodrive-Mini... :)

[Tom206wrc]

Twitter / davidevansrally: Not looking good for a Prodrive ... (http://t.co/42WnOoDL)

:confused:

[ToughMac]

Shame, after the positive showing Sordo put in on last years event you'd think some wealthy tourist would put up the cash to get out in a works car.

[SubaruNorway]

Rallyrykter.no saying Delecour is confirmed for MC with Prodrive...?

[dimviii]

so no Nikkara for Monte?

[Frostmourne]

Chris Atkinson got some good results with Mini last year, any news if Prodrive had any tests or contacts with him? Also what about Craig Been? Everyone says Kris Meeke is good driver, but I think he crashes alot, like Novi and JML!

[Mirek]

Craig Breen continues with Saintéloc Racing in ERC. At least I believe I saw that news somewhere...

[mousti]

There were plans in the making.. I guess that program will start in Canarias if it gets made.

[COD]

Such a shame their marketing people can not raise the budget

[noel157]

Craig Breen continues with Saintéloc Racing in ERC. At least I believe I saw that news somewhere...

That's what he is aiming for, nothing confirmed yet as budget is not in place.

[Frostmourne]

Question guys (I know I ask alot, so please forgive me): is the Mini JCW car competitive enough? Given we have equally skilled drivers , can it compete with Ford Fiesta and Citroen DS3?

[A FONDO]

Certainly no, because it has lacked budget for development and competitive mileage. But how much really slower - no one can say

[stefanvv]

I think Mini is 1 year without development more or less...

[Plan9]

That's tragic. I don't get how Mini can back the X-Raid effort and not Prodrive. However much Mini wins in Corss Country it will have less viewers than WRC. I suppose we can say now that Meeke is finished in WRC now?

[Prisoner Monkeys]

I don't get how Mini can back the X-Raid effort and not Prodrive.
I'm not sure exactly what happened, but it's pretty obvious that Mini either lost faith in Prodrive, or Prodrive did something to upset them enough that they pulled the team's funding. They haven't said anything on the subject, but I'm guessing that they might be willing to support a dedicated manufacturer effort in the future - they just don't want any factory effort to have anything to do with Prodrive.


I suppose we can say now that Meeke is finished in WRC now?
Unless he finds sponsors and/or another team. Which, if he was smart, he would have done at the start of this year when it became obvious he wasn't going to drive. There are several teams that competed in 2012 with no current plans - like Adapta, Brazil WRT and Monster (who have implied they may well continue in 2013 without Ken Block).

[GigiGalliNo1]

The X-Raid MINI's are built buy another company similar to Prodrive but not sure how baked they are by MINI/BMW, maybe as much as Prodrive are with development of engine etc BUT I think Dakar/Raid team have better sponsors and will have larger publicity from the event and X-Raid events!

[vino_93]

Last year Sven Quandt said that BMW/Mini give them only the engine and that's all.

[Antony Warmbold]

Sven Quandt is the son of Herbert Quandt.

Herbert Quandt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Quandt)

The Quandt family "owns" BMW so I'd think with Sven the situation is entirely different than Prodrive.

[AndyRAC]

Quite a bit different indeed. The Dakar is a strong brand, with regular updates and live reports - just what sponsors want.

The whole Prodrive/BMW/Mini episode has been perfect example of how not to do a Motorsport project - despite all the early promise. The foundations were made of sand. One feels for the employees of Prodrive. I've always felt that 'in house Factory' teams are better than outside prep companies, and this has done nothing to change that.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Prodrive have other projects on their hands. Aston Martin, V8 Supercars etc

BUT some Prodrive staff were given opportunities they couldn't say No to after the fiasco of what was the WRC program/s and moved to VW Motorsport for the WRC ;)

[AndyRAC]

Really, Prodrive should concentrate on the GT, and Aussie V8 series....and forget the WRC for now. The Mini has probably lost a years worth of development. The RRC version might make a nice National series car.

[Frostmourne]

I think the future will not be so bright for Prodrive/Mini in WRC :( .
I mean why all out of sudden Mini/BMW lost interest in WRC? what has happend to make them withdraw? BMW/Mini sales is good I think, so I do not think it is money thing. Something else has happend!

[AndyRAC]

I think the future will not be so bright for Prodrive/Mini in WRC :( .
I mean why all out of sudden Mini/BMW lost interest in WRC? what has happend to make them withdraw? BMW/Mini sales is good I think, so I do not think it is money thing. Something else has happend!

BMW have never really understood Rallying - it doesn't suit their image, and they are not taking on their Premium rivals. They would argue that they made the right decision; winning the DTM in their first season back with Bruno Spengler.

[tommeke_B]

On the other hand AndyRAC, they wanted to promote the Mini Countryman... And except for rallying (WRC or Dakar), there is no other world championship where the car could be where it belongs...

[PLuto]

I think the future will not be so bright for Prodrive/Mini in WRC :( .
I mean why all out of sudden Mini/BMW lost interest in WRC? what has happend to make them withdraw? BMW/Mini sales is good I think, so I do not think it is money thing. Something else has happend!

BMW never lost interest. Agreement on the start of Mini project between Prodrive and BMW was very clear. BMW fulfiled this agreement, mistake is on side of Prodrive...

[Frostmourne]

BMW never lost interest. Agreement on the start of Mini project between Prodrive and BMW was very clear. BMW fulfiled this agreement, mistake is on side of Prodrive...

What was this agreement? how did Prodrive fail it? will you please enlighten me :) ?

[stefanvv]

What was this agreement? how did Prodrive fail it? will you please enlighten me :) ?

I think BMW never wanted to be the title sponsor of Mini WRC involvement. The agreement I believe was BMW will develop/provide only the engine for 2012, but Prodrive has to fulfill all the sponsorship part for the WRC campain.

[Franky]

But isn't the engine the weakest part of the Mini?

[PLuto]

I think BMW never wanted to be the title sponsor of Mini WRC involvement. The agreement I believe was BMW will develop/provide only the engine for 2012, but Prodrive has to fulfill all the sponsorship part for the WRC campain.

Plan from BMW was to develop the engine and pay development of the car. All running of the team and additional costs were on side of Prodrive. But maybe Richards hoped that BMW will not kill the project if he will not find another sponsor and he will dig more money from BMW. But it was a mistake, BMW didnt wanted to pay more than was planned...

[stefanvv]

But isn't the engine the weakest part of the Mini?

It might be, at the beginning of 2012 the project just stopped, probably because Prodrive didn't find the necessary sponsorship.

[AndyRAC]

On the other hand AndyRAC, they wanted to promote the Mini Countryman... And except for rallying (WRC or Dakar), there is no other world championship where the car could be where it belongs...

Who wanted to? BMW? I never really felt their heart was in it, and anyway, the only 'talk' was from Mini UK, who kept mentioning the 60's Rallying success. Did anybody truly expect a fully funded effort like VW?
It was down to Prodrive to find sponsorship - and they were unable to do this. Though as DR said earlier this year on TheRallyShow, FTA TV is the issue. Sponsors aren't interested unless there is FTA TV, poor quality highlights on MotorsTV isn't good enough.

[Plan9]

According to some of Prodrive's old press releases they will have a relationship with BMW to develop MINI WRC cars until 2018. If they can't make Monte Carol I can't see how they could survive until then. I always thought that BMW would want to make a decent fist of the WRC as they said they wanted to develop its brands in a way that just being in F1 could not allow them to do when they left in 2009. Also, I believed incorrectly that MINI and Prodrive would want to make a British champion in a "British" car with Meeke (something like Colin in 1995).

I think Mini does favor the X-Raid operation as the WRC program is not mentioned on the minimotorsport.com website at all and the Dakar Countryman has JCW stickers that it did not use to have, that made me think Mini was giving more money to that program.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

If they can't make Monte Carol I can't see how they could survive until then.
Monte Carlo and Sweden are the two most unique events on the calendar. Prodrive would probably be better off skipping those rallies entirely and entering the season in Mexico, which is the first of six gravel rounds in a row. Any development they do then is going to be of immediate benefit, whereas testing on snow in preparation for Monte Carlo and Sweden is only going to be of any use for those events, where the surfaces only come up once a year.

[stefanvv]

The good thing about Monte is when the comnditions are "unique" they are leveler, so how fast the car is doesn't matter, just like last year. Sweden ok, but I thing they might prefer that before Mexico, because it's much cheaper ;)

[Prisoner Monkeys]

If I were at Prodrive, and I only had the budget to do, say, eight rallies this year, I would not pick Monte Carlo as one of those eight and gamble on the possibility of inclement conditions. I'd probably stay away from Monte Carlo entirely until I had the budget to do at least ten rallies.

[MJW]

Sweden is also expensive rally to do with the cost of snow tyres, however, if Patrik Sandell and Henning Solberg are likelyt Mini pilots then these two guys sponsors are likely to want to do Sweden, also Mexico is expensive in freight terms and is also unique in the high altitude, if anything 'normal' WRC doesnt start until Portugal.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Mexico is expensive in freight terms and is also unique in the high altitude, if anything 'normal' WRC doesnt start until Portugal.
But of the three rounds outside Europe, Mexico is probably the cheapest because it's the closest to Europe.

[vino_93]

Prodrive should have work with another manufacturer ... I'm quite sure that another brand would have more support Prodrive than BMW, but Richards wanted the Mini when he saw it... I hope they will do a new car for 2014-2015. The Mini was good, they prove they still know how to do a good car, and they can benefit from their xp with Mini.

[Frostmourne]

I am really surprised that a name such as Prodrive is having hard time to secure some sponsors for their WRC program. They have the reputation and the experience. I hope with good campaign and drivers this year, and probably if VW get the manufacturer championship can spark BMW interest back again to support them. And even if BMW/Mini still not interested, again Prodrive name should be enough to attract sponsors into a full campaign and manufacturer championship, specially with Loeb out of the picture. And I do not think it is a wise decision to leave the Mini to another car (given that Prodrive decided to stay in WRC), they spent couple of years developing the car and had good experince with it.

[bt52b]

Must kill them to have a car that would be pretty competitive at the Monte and not be able to run it.

[EightGear]

Reputation of Prodrive etc. is irrelevant when there is pretty much no TV coverage.

[AndyRAC]

Reputation of Prodrive etc. is irrelevant when there is pretty much no TV coverage.

Which is what DR said, no point even talking to sponsors if there's no 'proper' TV coverage. It's that simple.

[PLuto]

Reputation of Prodrive etc. is irrelevant when there is pretty much no TV coverage.

Question is how good is reputation of Prodrive...

[AndyRAC]

Prodrive are doing fine - Motorsport makes up a small part of their business...

[Frostmourne]

Question is how good is reputation of Prodrive...
Well... Manufacturer Champions reputation?? Even the Mini this season showed it has the pace, and it can be a competitive car with the rest!

[Mirek]

Monte Carlo and Sweden are the two most unique events on the calendar. Prodrive would probably be better off skipping those rallies entirely and entering the season in Mexico, which is the first of six gravel rounds in a row. Any development they do then is going to be of immediate benefit, whereas testing on snow in preparation for Monte Carlo and Sweden is only going to be of any use for those events, where the surfaces only come up once a year.

Mexico is very specific event requiring special engine maps which can hardly be developed without data from Mexico. The difference to Monte Carlo is that while in MC even a bad car can win thanks to weather and tyre lottery, in Mexico never. If Your engine is not prepared for high altitudes, if Your fuel system was not tested in high altitudes You are going to have a painful event and in no way You can think about victory.

[rallyfiend]

I am really surprised that a name such as Prodrive is having hard time to secure some sponsors for their WRC program. They have the reputation and the experience. I hope with good campaign and drivers this year, and probably if VW get the manufacturer championship can spark BMW interest back again to support them. And even if BMW/Mini still not interested, again Prodrive name should be enough to attract sponsors into a full campaign and manufacturer championship, specially with Loeb out of the picture. And I do not think it is a wise decision to leave the Mini to another car (given that Prodrive decided to stay in WRC), they spent couple of years developing the car and had good experince with it.

When was the last time Prodrive had 'real' sponsors for any WRC programme?

The days of 555 are a loooong time ago....

[MAXLD]

When was the last time Prodrive had 'real' sponsors for any WRC programme?

The days of 555 are a loooong time ago....

Have to agree with that... Those late Subaru seasons damaged their reputation, just yesterday I saw a multi-part documentary reporting the 2006 from inside the team, and damn, they really messed it up.

With the Mini I think they were expecting a big sponsor to pay their expenses all year... but maybe they were too greedy? I mean, even considering their late doubtful reputation, maybe a few minor sponsors would be better than nothing.
But, I think in the end, like already said, BMW never intended to bet that high on WRC... and after the mess with Prodrive & Armindo's team, I think they proved their true intentions... having the car approved by FIA and make a few bucks selling it to private teams, getting some marketing around the globe for a car that isn't really that hardcore in the road anyway... much less the Countryman. Was a bit condemned already at the beginning... even the press presentation was quite idiotic, "selling" the supposed Mini's "rally tradition"...

I don't think the Mini will stick around for much longer... with VW already in full power, with Hyunday and possibly Toyota coming soon with a considerable high interest/investment, I don't think Prodrive will develop/improve that car to the point of getting podiums or even Top5's at a regular basis.

[danon]

MINI is a "Joke Come True" - said a forum fellow not long time ago.

This car as a whole looks like a freak of nature.

Мaking their own FN-Class (Freaks of Nature) along with the look-alikes
Volkswagen Beetle to welcome the rising group of newcomers is the way to go.


And they won't be all alone...

[HaCo]

Could not disagree more!

The Mini is a nice road car, also are all the versions that come with it and the WRC apart from the great monster-WRC look did also attract a lot of attention to the sport. It's a big shame they dont find the funding they need! It's a pitty this sport can only be ran by manufactures teams (and ford still is one IMHO).

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[J.Lindstroem]

MINI is a "Joke Come True" - said a forum fellow not long time ago.

This car as a whole looks like a freak of nature.

Мaking their own FN-Class (Freaks of Nature) along with the look-alikes
Volkswagen Beetle to welcome the rising group of newcomers is the way to go.


And they won't be all alone...

"Freak of nature", Haha. Thats pathetic, Danon.

Get a grip!

[JAM]

The days of 555 are a loooong time ago....

Yes, it was when a WRC rally at a top level car had a cost of about 30-40.000 Euros. Good times!

[JAM]

But, I think in the end, like already said, BMW never intended to bet that high on WRC... and after the mess with Prodrive & Armindo's team,

That mess was the result of BMW intentions.

BMW never wanted to invest trully on a WRC programme. They entered on it because someone promised to find money to pay the rallies, and they would pay the development. To BMW it was a good deal, they would pay only 60 or 70% of the program.

But that "someone" failed to find sponsors and then... BMW decided to pull out. And to save a little bit of Prodrive's face, BMW created "the mess" to allow Prodrive homologate a new evolution of Mini.

[rallyfiend]

Yes, it was when a WRC rally at a top level car had a cost of about 30-40.000 Euros. Good times!

SWRT was believed to be running on about 50-55 million euros at that time.

That's more than Ford and Citroen have been running on recently. The past isn't always rosy....

[tommeke_B]

Yes, it was when a WRC rally at a top level car had a cost of about 30-40.000 Euros. Good times!
The 90's, 30-40 000 euros for a top level car in good conditions for a WRC event? For a Subaru 555 Gr.A? Are you joking?