WRC future

[AnttiL]

it could bring more manus in, when cost is not that high, and they can sell cars to privateers.

When M-Sport builds a rally car and sells it, how much does the manufacturer get? I mean, do they care if their cars can be sold to privateers or not?

I think most of you exaggerate how much the price of one car is in the budget of a manufacturer. If you keep everything as it is (3 top drivers per team, 14 rallies) but just change WRC to Rally2 cars, it doesn't reduce the overall budgets by that many percentages...

[AnttiL]

Can't agree more. And remember, even without the terrible corsica accident, the future of Gp.B was bleak - Everyone apart from Peugeot and Lancia would have dropped out because of too high costs / too high a barrier to entry for newcomers. This is why Gp.S was on the wings, simpler, cheaper formula. It's even better now as you point out because there is such a base of R5 cars out there ...

Group B wouldn't have continued alongside Group S. Group S would have replaced Group B for 1988. And most cars would have been just converted into Group S.

Metro debuted in RAC 1985, Citroen in Monte 1986, Ford in Sweden 1986, Group B still attracted new teams, instead of teams dropping out.

[Tauri_J]

Group B wouldn't have continued alongside Group S. Group S would have replaced Group B for 1988. And most cars would have been just converted into Group S.

Metro debuted in RAC 1985, Citroen in Monte 1986, Ford in Sweden 1986, Group B still attracted new teams, instead of teams dropping out.

1980s were the golden age of motosport imo. Every manufacturer wanted to be a part of motosport and the effort they put into their projects was enourmous in terms of money and workforce.

[AnttiL]

1980s were the golden age of motosport imo. Every manufacturer wanted to be a part of motosport and the effort they put into their projects was enourmous in terms of money and workforce.

What about 90's and the early 00's? I think it was quite similar. And there were still the big tobacco and alcohol sponsorships....you can't rewind the clock to those days.

[RS]

I think most of you exaggerate how much the price of one car is in the budget of a manufacturer. If you keep everything as it is (3 top drivers per team, 14 rallies) but just change WRC to Rally2 cars, it doesn't reduce the overall budgets by that many percentages...

What about development costs and running costs? Not to mention there are already more manufacturers with Rally2 cars than WRCs.

If we lose Hyundai then we’re down to MSport vs Toyota which on recent form isn’t much of a competition.

[AnttiL]

Not to mention there are already more manufacturers with Rally2 cars than WRCs.

If we lose Hyundai then we’re down to MSport vs Toyota which on recent form isn’t much of a competition.

But how many manufacturer teams we have now that are running Rally2 cars? We only have M-Sport and Hyundai. VW is not a manufacturer team and likely never will be again. Skoda just ended their program and is under the same VAG policy as VW. Citroen, I'm not sure what kind of a deal they're running with Østberg. Toyota doesn't have a car yet.

[RS]

But how many manufacturer teams we have now that are running Rally2 cars? We only have M-Sport and Hyundai. VW is not a manufacturer team and likely never will be again. Skoda just ended their program and is under the same VAG policy as VW. Citroen, I'm not sure what kind of a deal they're running with Østberg. Toyota doesn't have a car yet.

Skoda are still there, just with a different name.

And don’t you think that if Rally2 was to become the top class with resulting increase in publicity those manufacturers you mentioned wouldn’t make more of an effort?

[AnttiL]

Skoda are still there, just with a different name.

Toksport? If so, I didn't know.

And don’t you think that if Rally2 was to become the top class with resulting increase in publicity those manufacturers you mentioned wouldn’t make more of an effort?

Do they want to promote these models? Some of those bodyshells are already quite old.

Like I said, there's a big difference in budget to run 1-2 drivers in 8 rallies (planned minimum of WRC2) compared to running 3 drivers in 14 events. And there's a difference in salary with drivers like Gryazin and Tänak. In fact, the former most likely brings money in, the latter is one of the most expensive drivers.

[RS]

Toksport? If so, I didn't know.

Solberg is still run by Skoda Motorsport.

Do they want to promote these models? Some of those bodyshells are already quite old.

So are current i20 and Yaris.

Like I said, there's a big difference in budget to run 1-2 drivers in 8 rallies (planned minimum of WRC2) compared to running 3 drivers in 14 events. And there's a difference in salary with drivers like Gryazin and Tänak. In fact, the former most likely brings money in, the latter is one of the most expensive drivers.

The primary reason to bring down running costs might be to make the sport more accessible to some strong drivers with some but limited budget. If we’re going down to 1.5 works teams it’s a virtual certainty that entry lists would be better with cars which were cheaper to run.

Everyone likes the current WRCars but it looks increasingly like the sport is going to have to make some major changes to secure it’s long term health. What’s your alternative?

[AnttiL]

Solberg is still run by Skoda Motorsport.

I was under the impression he just rents their services. There's a big difference paying someone to drive a car that you pay to be build, prepared, fixed and developed instead of someone bringing in all the budget (and paying his own salary).

Skoda was still a proper factory team last year, they ran even five drivers in 2018, remember?

So are current i20 and Yaris.

And the current WRC cars are coming to the end of their lifecycle after next year, new ones are made anyway, no problem. Well, it's true though that Hyundai just updated their Rally2 car and Toyota would make a new one anyway...

The primary reason to bring down running costs might be to make the sport more accessible to some strong drivers with some but limited budget.

They can still show their skills in WRC3.

Everyone likes the current WRCars but it looks increasingly like the sport is going to have to make some major changes to secure it’s long term health. What’s your alternative?

Again, the current WRC cars are coming to the end of their lifecycle after next year. I think the 2022 Rally1 hybrids are the right decision.

If Hyundai decides to leave WRC, I'm sure they would leave even if the series was run with Rally2 cars.