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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by airshifter View Post
    Well as far as the car percentage, I'd have to agree that it's just "needed" at the top of the field. Until you are in that hardware, you're not winning titles.

    As for the "GOAT" I've never figured that out much myself. Maybe the Greatest (Record) Of All Time, regardless of the luck of the car? Maybe the claim to be the best driver, even in inferior hardware? Maybe the person with the largest fanboy base?

    I watch for the show and to appreciate all the talented drivers, along with seeing the teams efforts and the improvements in the cars. I've watched F1 far too long to think that luck isn't a big part of the equation. And sometimes the luck of lack of with certain drivers is what levels the playing field some, and when you see the better drivers really display their ability, even when in a lesser car.

    I also feel that people take it over the top in making any of these guys superhuman when they win.
    Ok now l am confused. If l read you correctly, luck has nothing to do with it, it just pure skill that win races. Or you are saying that the luck is about being in th fastest car in the first place and everything else is the level of talent available to the individual. But you also say that drivers performing above what the car or inferior car can produce is a display of talent above sheer luck. And l agree with this last bit actually.

    But l also agree that luck is not a big part of it as well. But it is a part of winning more times than not. Like Hamilton driving his tyres for a longer run than would otherwise be ideal with the hope for a safety car situation that materializes against the odds, giving him a win that would have otherwise been a win for Bottas that had driven a flawless race but to be deprived of the win due to the safety car. This is what l mean by making luck.

    You also say that machinery is a big part of it. But Ferrari had the fastest car this season and last. And probably for some time now since 2017. Yet Mercedes has won both driver and constructors title inspite of it. Which disproves the argument that better machinery has alot to do with success. Unfortunately, that statement undermines the immense amount of work that Mercedes has put into finding a solution to overcome Ferrari and their mighty engine.

    The level of excellence that brings a driver and a team above a competitor with a superior machinery is not ordinary by any means. It is that bit above what even the best of the time can produce. That l say is superhuman.

    In terms of Schumacher and Hamilton, is not ordinary talent that makes a driver win more than 5 F1 driver's title. Having a superior car is not the full answer either because there is another driver in a similar car racing against him. It is that very special talent that separates that driver from the rest. Because not all drivers on the grid can be world champions in that car. Be it a Mercedes or a Ferrari. If that was the case, the other driver would win just as much titles as the him [Schumacher, Hamilton, Prost].

    I would not go as far as to say GOAT, as l find such terms unequivocal, but l certainly think it is not ordinary talent. And you can see how it separates the up and coming from their peers. Verstapenn and Leclerc stand out immediately because we could see that very special quality in them.

    The reason we are having this discussion is the comparison of Bottas to Verstapenn and Leclerc as implied by Hakkinen. Bottas is fast but lacks that very particular quality that we associate with Verstapenn and Leclerc.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 9th January 2020 at 17:37.
    Better a witty fool than a foolish wit.
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