Whats going to Happen at Mercedes

[Doc Austin]

There's been some talk about the "racing line," and who "owns" the corner. These are all subjective things, much like no one can really define "blocking." One thing that is not subjective are the laws of physics, especially the one about two objects occupying the same space at the same time. No matter what you might think the rules are, or how you interpret (or misinterpret) them, you can't put your car on a piece of road that the other car is already on.

Now, where did Nico think his car was going to go? Nico tried to put his car in a space that was already occupied. There s no way he could have possibly misjudged it so badly that he thought he was not going to hit Hamilton.

Again, before anyone wants to accuse me of being a "Hamilton fan," I'm also a Nico fan (or was), so I don't really have a prejudice here. I would have certainly much rather have not seen this happen. I would be ok with either driver winning as long as they do it clean.

If this was simply an accident, there would not have been the exchange of trash talk we are seeing. If Nico really did make a mistake, he could have just said so, and maybe been a little contrite, or pretended to be. Instead, he has been defiant. If he really made a mistake and took his teammate out, wouldn't he have at least said a little something about being sorry, or at least saying he did not mean to do it? Or at least said it was "unfortunate?"

Sure, he said it was a "racing incident," but that's not very convincing. It's like saying "that's racing," or "I did not have sex with that woman." Then again, it is hard to explain why you would turn the wheel toward your teammate, so if Nico offers no explanation, at least he is not outright lying.

If I run into my teammate by accident, I am on the radio with my engineer immediately telling him to square it away with Lewis' engineer, but none of that from Nico, at least nothing we have heard. If Nico had radioed in he was sorry or admitted a mistake, it is hard to believe Toto and Lauda would have initially been so upset with him.

Watching the team scrambling to sweep this under the rug has been both amusing and revealing. The "Hamilton misinterpreted Nico" statement is utter rubbish. How can you misinterpret "I could have avoided it but did not want to." To me that says you wanted a collision.

The whole "prove a point" thing can be taken many ways, but it is hard to justify "proving a point" to your supposed teammate when Mercedes is spending billions for you to bring the cars home 1 and 2. It's also hard to justify "proving a point" in a potentially deadly situation.

I only have my own opinion and some limited karting and Formula Ford experience to draw from, but I can never remember a time that I turned my wheels at another kart unless I wanted to hit him.

Like Damon Hill insisted, my instinct is to avoid a collision. This does not include turning the wheel toward my opponent. Since the car goes where you point it, what did you think was going to happen?

[zako85]

There's been some talk about the "racing line," and who "owns" the corner. These are all subjective things, much like no one can really define "blocking." One thing that is not subjective are the laws of physics, especially the one about two objects occupying the same space at the same time. No matter what you might think the rules are, or how you interpret (or misinterpret) them, you can't put your car on a piece of road that the other car is already on.

The racing line and who own the corner is not subjective most of the time. In fact, the laws of physics you talk about are irrelevant. For example, the guy who owns the racing line has the right to turn into the car that's diving on the inside, if the inside car is behind by half length or so. Such convention removes the ambiguity. Moreover, you can't even blame that car in front because the driver does not even always see the car behind.

Now, where did Nico think his car was going to go? Nico tried to put his car in a space that was already occupied. There s no way he could have possibly misjudged it so badly that he thought he was not going to hit Hamilton.

Yes. Wishful thinking, or perhaps he hoped Hamilton was going to blink. Anyways. Rosberg did try to bail out and give space to Hamilton but his nose was off by a few inches which he needed to clear Hamilton's wheel. Exactly the same type of accident or near accident happens all the time. Very ordinary stuff. Case closed.

If this was simply an accident, there would not have been the exchange of trash talk we are seeing. If Nico really did make a mistake, he could have just said so, and maybe been a little contrite, or pretended to be. Instead, he has been defiant. If he really made a mistake and took his teammate out, wouldn't he have at least said a little something about being sorry, or at least saying he did not mean to do it? Or at least said it was "unfortunate?"

Yes, Rosberg should have apologized for making a mistake.

Sure, he said it was a "racing incident," but that's not very convincing. It's like saying "that's racing," or "I did not have sex with that woman." Then again, it is hard to explain why you would turn the wheel toward your teammate, so if Nico offers no explanation, at least he is not outright lying.

You fail to analyze the situation or read the previous posts. Rosberg turned the wheel to stay on track. He would have cleared Hamilton's wheel if he was slightly behind. Yes, this is a racing incident that's caused by Rosberg's misjudgement. Rosberg is a bad team player and should have apologized. Taking the argument further and arguing that collision was intentional is just bonkers as there is no evidence to prove malicious intent and ex ante Rosberg was just as likely to wreck his own car.

[Doc Austin]

In fact, the laws of physics you talk about are irrelevant.

Hamilton's tire and Nico's wing suggest otherwise. No matter what the rules are, two cars can not occupy the same piece of road at the same time.

For example, the guy who owns the racing line has the right to turn into the car that's diving on the inside, if the inside car is behind by half length or so.

I would say the front wing contacting rear wheel would be significantly more behind than half a length. By your own reasoning, it was Hamilton's corner.

Anyways. Rosberg did try to bail out and give space to Hamilton.......

By turning the wheel towards Hamilton?Oddly, my instinct would be to avoid the collision.

You fail to analyze the situation or read the previous posts.

I analyzed it just fine, precisely because I did not let other posts influence what I saw with my own eyes.

Rosberg turned the wheel to stay on track.

Outside of Monoco, when do you ever see a driver put that much lock on the steering wheel? Answer: Just about never. Point the car where you want it to go.

The alternater answer is that Rosberg is a total putz who has no idea what he is doing and is perfectly capable of making such a huge mistake. I'm sure you don't believe that and neither do I.

Taking the argument further and arguing that collision was intentional is just bonkers as there is no evidence to prove malicious intent and ex ante Rosberg was just as likely to wreck his own car.

How else can you interpret "I could have avoided the contact but didn't want to?" If you let something happen, that's not much different from making it happen.

Nico Rosberg immediately blamed Hamilton for the incident, but added that he could have avoided the contact, but didn't want to. He went on to tell Lewis, Toto Wolff, and Paddy Lowe that he allowed the contact to happen in order to 'prove a point.'

I did not and do not want to believe Nico hit Hamilton on purpose, but when you look at the video and then read Nico lamely trying to explain the incident away, it doesn't add up to just an accident.

[Bagwan]

Hamilton didn't slow to make the corner as Nico did .
Nico was left with no option but to cut the corner .
That's no option but being forced off .

As forcing another driver off is against the rules , Nico , who had his wheel beside Lewis's sidepod , should have had the option to chose to trust that his team mate who knew he was there and try to make the corner , at least at that point .

Not lifting at that point negated the possibility that Lewis could leave room for Nico , and it was that speed that has been seen as the reason he somehow automatically gets to take the racing line , because it surged him ahead at that same point Nico was setting up the corner .

Both had their claim to the corner , and that's why it was deemed not worthy of investigation , as both were guilty of making that claim .

It seems the stewards didn't see Nico as a "cheat" or "dirty" or anything other than a guy involved in a racing incident .
The same with Hamilton , as far as that goes .

They agree with me .

[steveaki13]

This is all very unfortunate in many ways.

Mercedes have a problem as its drivers are fighting and starting to let Ricciardo near

F1 has a problem as the gap in the WDC is now becoming big and threatens the Championship fight. The only 2014 will be a success given the dominance of their cars is if Mercedes have an epic inter team battle.

Also it cause a lot of controversy when the stewards made their decision.

[The Black Knight]

There's been some talk about the "racing line," and who "owns" the corner. These are all subjective things, much like no one can really define "blocking." One thing that is not subjective are the laws of physics, especially the one about two objects occupying the same space at the same time. No matter what you might think the rules are, or how you interpret (or misinterpret) them, you can't put your car on a piece of road that the other car is already on.

Now, where did Nico think his car was going to go? Nico tried to put his car in a space that was already occupied. There s no way he could have possibly misjudged it so badly that he thought he was not going to hit Hamilton.

Again, before anyone wants to accuse me of being a "Hamilton fan," I'm also a Nico fan (or was), so I don't really have a prejudice here. I would have certainly much rather have not seen this happen. I would be ok with either driver winning as long as they do it clean.

If this was simply an accident, there would not have been the exchange of trash talk we are seeing. If Nico really did make a mistake, he could have just said so, and maybe been a little contrite, or pretended to be. Instead, he has been defiant. If he really made a mistake and took his teammate out, wouldn't he have at least said a little something about being sorry, or at least saying he did not mean to do it? Or at least said it was "unfortunate?"

Sure, he said it was a "racing incident," but that's not very convincing. It's like saying "that's racing," or "I did not have sex with that woman." Then again, it is hard to explain why you would turn the wheel toward your teammate, so if Nico offers no explanation, at least he is not outright lying.

If I run into my teammate by accident, I am on the radio with my engineer immediately telling him to square it away with Lewis' engineer, but none of that from Nico, at least nothing we have heard. If Nico had radioed in he was sorry or admitted a mistake, it is hard to believe Toto and Lauda would have initially been so upset with him.

Watching the team scrambling to sweep this under the rug has been both amusing and revealing. The "Hamilton misinterpreted Nico" statement is utter rubbish. How can you misinterpret "I could have avoided it but did not want to." To me that says you wanted a collision.

The whole "prove a point" thing can be taken many ways, but it is hard to justify "proving a point" to your supposed teammate when Mercedes is spending billions for you to bring the cars home 1 and 2. It's also hard to justify "proving a point" in a potentially deadly situation.

I only have my own opinion and some limited karting and Formula Ford experience to draw from, but I can never remember a time that I turned my wheels at another kart unless I wanted to hit him.

Like Damon Hill insisted, my instinct is to avoid a collision. This does not include turning the wheel toward my opponent. Since the car goes where you point it, what did you think was going to happen?

Excellent post!

I used to do a lot of racing when I was a kid until a car traffic accident curtailed my career, but I never turned in on another driver like that unless I wanted to do damage to his race. If I wanted to hit a guy to prove a point, as only a stupid kid would do, then I would hit his rear to spin him around. I remember one time I drove into a chicane side by side with a guy in karting who had ruined my race the week before, much similar to Nico and Lewis yesterday and I swerved into his rear tire. Now, guess what? I did it on purpose and hit him exactly where I wanted to hit him, he spun and I went on to win the race. You only make this kind of move if you want to hurt a guys race. The difference between me and Nico is that I was a stupid kid, Nico should know better but clearly he doesn't. In karts we were driving 1/2 the speed these guys are driving at. It's too risky to do things like this at that level.

[Big Ben]

I used to do a lot of racing myself. I remember one time I was on a straight just before a right-left chicane with this other kid having the front half of his kart side by side with mine. And I was thinking I'm so hungry and I have big balls and this other guy is a wuss. he always backs down and lets me have my way. I'm gonna take his sandwich from him when we're done with this... I'm hungrier than him... and then I turned left and then right like there was no one beside me. well, this time he he didn't back down and I lost and he went on and stuck it to me and I threw a hissy fit bla bla bla. Now I'm older I know I was such a retard back then.

Just my own personal made up similar story to prove a point

[Big Ben]

and no henners... I don't have videos of black night's entire life to prove anything

[journeyman racer]

F1 has a problem as the gap in the WDC is now becoming big and threatens the Championship fight.

There is no problem.

The only 2014 will be a success given the dominance of their cars is if Mercedes have an epic inter team battle.

What do you mean "only"? There are other points of interest for "the fans". Few races have been processional, a lot have held interest. If nothing else, this season has been a success due to Ricciardo elevating himself this season.

[henners88]

and no henners... I don't have videos of black night's entire life to prove anything

I worked that out early on.