Where does Nico Rosberg go from here?

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Originally Posted by henners88

I didn't mean to 'like' post no 101. I quoted it not agreed with it.

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yes you did... deep deep down you know you did

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Originally Posted by henners88

Then I don't understand the basis of your criticism in that case.

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Asked if the team had orchestrated the result, Hamilton said: "I never think those kind of things."

He added: "But I know the team has felt the need to be extra warm [to Rosberg]."

Pushed to elaborate, the 30-year-old said: "I do know what I mean but I'm not going to say what I mean. You should ask Toto Wolff [Mercedes team boss] and Niki Lauda [Mercedes non-executive chairman].

"You should put those questions to them about how they feel about it, and what they have to do behind the scenes to keep him happy."

this is from the bbc article. should I comment on this? are you denying is implying that the team favored Rosberg?

"Nico drove well. No mistakes. No gust of wind."

they included the mocking too.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Nico could have just as easily questioned the team orders and said he wanted to stay out. He didn't and chose to come in. Lewis did question it and if he won because of it, it would have been deserving because that is part of racing.

I remember Button refusing a McLaren order to come into the pits in China 2010. People called it a master stroke by Button because it won him the race. I wonder how many of those people are here criticising Hamilton for not refusing but simply questioning orders he was given.

What a spiteful soul Jenson is then :laugh:

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You could also mention China 2007 as a statement of Hamilton's tire expertise

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Originally Posted by Big Ben

Asked if the team had orchestrated the result, Hamilton said: "I never think those kind of things."

He added: "But I know the team has felt the need to be extra warm [to Rosberg]."

Pushed to elaborate, the 30-year-old said: "I do know what I mean but I'm not going to say what I mean. You should ask Toto Wolff [Mercedes team boss] and Niki Lauda [Mercedes non-executive chairman].

"You should put those questions to them about how they feel about it, and what they have to do behind the scenes to keep him happy."

this is from the bbc article. should I comment on this? are you denying is implying that the team favored Rosberg?

"Nico drove well. No mistakes. No gust of wind."

they included the mocking too.

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I wasn't denying Hamilton was implying the team favoured Rosberg. I think Mercedes favoured Rosberg but have no issue with it. He needed the win more than lewis and hopefully it'll give him the confidence back to become the challenge he once was. F1 is dull even with my preferred driver winning,I am happy to admit that.

My dispute was the way you are demonising a drivers comments simply because you don't like him. It's total bollocks.

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Originally Posted by Big Ben

You could also mention China 2007 as a statement of Hamilton's tire expertise

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What exactly would that tell us about Hamilton's tyre expertise? Hopefully I am not alone in being intrigued by an answer.

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Originally Posted by Nitrodaze

This is just like the Hydra, as soon as we put one item to bed another pops up. Ok we get it, you guys don't like Hamilton. All champions get this type of criticism as their way to winning a championship is usually shaded with moments where they have to be aggressive to win. The route to success can be ugly at times, even when it is just the sort of racing that we want to see, some would find reason to criticize. I suppose some want a very sanitized race where there is no touching or hard racing that cause cars to go off the track. Just an orderly fast procession where everyone take their start positions and drive fast to the end of the race. Any attempt to change position would be frowned upon harshly.

You either want great racing or you don't.

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I cant believe you just said that, Jens is actually one of the least biased posters in this forum and Imo just tells it how he sees it objectively. I was less generous of Lewis's Austin dive and felt that he could still have given Nico the room and changed his line after the initial understeer moment, Brundle also clearly felt the same btw.

Hamilton is obviously a fantastic driver at the top of his game, very exciting, great to watch and I like his aggressive style but he is not perfect and cant always be faultless. He has the focus of the world on him at the sharp end of the grid, its inevitable that flashpoints and incidents will happen. questions will be asked and opinions will be given.

Like any other driver on the grid I'll praise him when he does well and criticize him when I feel he deserves it but its nothing personal to Lewis or any of his fans.

I can tell you one thing I really like about Hamilton right now .

He's really livened this place up .

And , it's great to see nobody getting too upset about any of it .

EDIT: Oh man I shouldn't really post under the influence of a bit of alcohol on me night off. Just scrap this.

Don't worry, other posters, I don't hate you. Peace and goodnight

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Originally Posted by Big Ben

yes. do people still say lol?

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https://translate.google.com.au/#cy/en/lol

Lol in Welsh... nonsense!

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Originally Posted by Zico

I cant believe you just said that, Jens is actually one of the least biased posters in this forum and Imo just tells it how he sees it objectively. I was less generous of Lewis's Austin dive and felt that he could still have given Nico the room and changed his line after the initial understeer moment, Brundle also clearly felt the same btw.

Hamilton is obviously a fantastic driver at the top of his game, very exciting, great to watch and I like his aggressive style but he is not perfect and cant always be faultless. He has the focus of the world on him at the sharp end of the grid, its inevitable that flashpoints and incidents will happen. questions will be asked and opinions will be given.

Like any other driver on the grid I'll praise him when he does well and criticize him when I feel he deserves it but its nothing personal to Lewis or any of his fans.

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Buddy try to follow the thread properly. You would find that video evidence has been presented previously that showed that Hamilton did not intentionally push Rosberg off the track at Austin. This was thoroughly investigated by the Sky F1 crew.
Hence, the reason he was not punished by the stewards. I think we can move on from this issue.

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Originally Posted by henners88

My dispute was the way you are demonising a drivers comments simply because you don't like him. It's total bollocks.

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Whatever :rolleyes: You put such a spin on things I don't see the point of continuing arguing with you.

What a lively tread this is. Peace and love people. :heart:

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Originally Posted by Big Ben

Whatever :rolleyes: You put such a spin on things I don't see the point of continuing arguing with you.

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All the best.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Nico could have just as easily questioned the team orders and said he wanted to stay out. He didn't and chose to come in. Lewis did question it and if he won because of it, it would have been deserving because that is part of racing.

I remember Button refusing a McLaren order to come into the pits in China 2010. People called it a master stroke by Button because it won him the race. I wonder how many of those people are here criticising Hamilton for not refusing but simply questioning orders he was given.

What a spiteful soul Jenson is then :laugh:

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Certainly either driver could have ignored the instructions, and no doubt the debate about that would have been even more heated :) But that's quite different to saying the instructions themselves were biased or an attempt to change the race result.

I think it's just as well that both drivers did obey the orders. If either had refused, it would have left the Mercedes team in a difficult position. At the very least it would prevent them ever making such a precautionary stop again, with both drivers assuming the other would disobey the instructions.

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Originally Posted by AndyL

Certainly either driver could have ignored the instructions, and no doubt the debate about that would have been even more heated :) But that's quite different to saying the instructions themselves were biased or an attempt to change the race result.

I think it's just as well that both drivers did obey the orders. If either had refused, it would have left the Mercedes team in a difficult position. At the very least it would prevent them ever making such a precautionary stop again, with both drivers assuming the other would disobey the instructions.

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Well, there is two sides of the coin here. The first is now that the championship is over, why not allow them race? Mercedes should, I think, certainly allow them do this for Brazil and Abu Dhabi. They have nothing to lose by doing this and then come March next year they can once again go back to the previous scenario they had.

On the other hand, from a team perspective this is the way they wanted to play it. I see where both Hamilton and Mercedes are coming from and I can also see how from Hamilton's perspective it can be seen as a move by the team to keep Rosberg happy.

What should have happened before Mexico is the team should have sat down with both drivers and said the shackles are off now so go race guys. If you want to do a different strategy for the next 3 races to each other than feel free to do this and we'll back you as long as it doesn't compromise the best team result. Make it clear that this freedom only lasts until the end of season as well. However, since they didn't do this, had Hamilton not pitted Nico would have been quite rightly mighty pissed off. Maybe they'll do it for Brazil and AD :) In the end, it's a whole load of noise over nothing as Hamilton did actually pit.

The point I'm making in my above post is that there have been many examples of drivers ignoring team orders where they weren't criticized but rather commended but when Hamilton so much as questions a team order he's spiteful. I'm glad to see him doing this however, as it was one area of his game he really needed to lift.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

A good vid to illustrate the point , I must say .
Thanks for posting that .

The pass attempt into the corner was a dive , to be sure , but Nico , better sighted on the exit , being on the inside , should have seen him coming .
Had he left that little bit more space , he already had the overspeed to keep the position , but he attempted to close the door too early .

He didn't slide into the spot .


Now , from the other side , yes Dan hit his rear tire , showing Nico to be ahead , but that was because of the difference in speed between them because he had locked and gone straight in the corner .
When Nico ran into his path , he was going straight , accelerating to get out first .
And , technically , he was ahead , only moments before .


So , for me , the verdict is that Rosberg deserved a penalty there , and perhaps avoided it with a flat .

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Well, once Nico was ahead of Dan, Dan should have realized the move was over and he couldn't win this one. Going flat out and driving into your opponent is the wrong thing to do. Between the point where Nico got ahead and Dan hit him, there was only one person that could have prevented that accident from happening and that was Danny. That's why I believe it is his fault, he could have momentarily lifted to avoid the contact.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Well, once Nico was ahead of Dan, Dan should have realized the move was over and he couldn't win this one. Going flat out and driving into your opponent is the wrong thing to do. Between the point where Nico got ahead and Dan hit him, there was only one person that could have prevented that accident from happening and that was Danny. That's why I believe it is his fault, he could have momentarily lifted to avoid the contact.

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It was a split second adjustment that Nico might have made , that wouldn't have put him into that lane until just a moment later , and all would have been fine , because he had the overspeed .
It looked to me that it was what Dan expected by that point , and , I guess it could be described as a few inches of mistake , to not lift .
But , he was on the edge of the track , travelling straight , and both could see each other clearly .

Nico took his lane before he was past , and thus , had not left enough space .
He only got it a few inches wrong , but sometimes that's all it takes .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

It was a split second adjustment that Nico might have made , that wouldn't have put him into that lane until just a moment later , and all would have been fine , because he had the overspeed .
It looked to me that it was what Dan expected by that point , and , I guess it could be described as a few inches of mistake , to not lift .
But , he was on the edge of the track , travelling straight , and both could see each other clearly .

Nico took his lane before he was past , and thus , had not left enough space .
He only got it a few inches wrong , but sometimes that's all it takes .

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Well this is the great thing about F1 having differing opinions but to me, Nico had legitimately retaken the position at that point. He was clearly ahead and Dan should have backed off to avoid contact.

It's probably something we're not going to agree on but there have been many examples of similar moves like what Nico did in the past which haven't ended up like this. This one shouldn't have either and it was a bit of a brain fart by Danny.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Well this is the great thing about F1 having differing opinions but to me, Nico had legitimately retaken the position at that point. He was clearly ahead and Dan should have backed off to avoid contact.

It's probably something we're not going to agree on but there have been many examples of similar moves like what Nico did in the past which haven't ended up like this. This one shouldn't have either and it was a bit of a brain fart by Danny.

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I guess it's why stewarding decisions can be so difficult .
There are always two sides .

Again , it was a great vid to illustrate that , to be sure .
I can certainly see your point .


It's close ones like that which may help us be able to get to the bottom of this .
It comes down to that space thing again .

If you're really there first , then you should be able to take it , but if you know that there's car car in close proximity you should leave yourself enough grip to at least be able to give the other guy room if he gets there with you .
If you slide through on the attempt , like Dan did at first , when he was fully inside , then it's fair game .

But , on the exit , it was Nico who misjudged how close Dan was , and moved into his path too early .

It's that space thing . You need to leave enough . It's what they told Kimi .


Sorry for arguing the point again .
We need not agree .

And if the Pit crew had a problem changing the tyres on Rosbergs car and been 12 seconds and not 2.8 or so Lewis would still have won pit stop or not.Not long ago Mercedes pitted Lewis when he was supposed to have time for an unplanned pit stop.Hamilton pits,and Rosberg passes,Hamilton says to the team I have just lost the race havnt I .They had to admit their mistake lost him the race

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Originally Posted by driveace

And if the Pit crew had a problem changing the tyres on Rosbergs car and been 12 seconds and not 2.8 or so Lewis would still have won pit stop or not.Not long ago Mercedes pitted Lewis when he was supposed to have time for an unplanned pit stop.Hamilton pits,and Rosberg passes,Hamilton says to the team I have just lost the race havnt I .They had to admit their mistake lost him the race

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Just a point to notice, for Hamilton's stop, his new tyres were out of the heating covers for 2 laps as they discussed if he should come in for tyres. When did come in for the pit stop, the tyres had got quite cold to cost him a further net 2 seconds lose of time to Rosberg. His 2.5 sec gap before the pitstop became over 4 seconds.
Hence, so can see why the pitstop was a bother for Hamilton.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

I guess it's why stewarding decisions can be so difficult .
There are always two sides .

Again , it was a great vid to illustrate that , to be sure .
I can certainly see your point .


It's close ones like that which may help us be able to get to the bottom of this .
It comes down to that space thing again .

If you're really there first , then you should be able to take it , but if you know that there's car car in close proximity you should leave yourself enough grip to at least be able to give the other guy room if he gets there with you .
If you slide through on the attempt , like Dan did at first , when he was fully inside , then it's fair game .

But , on the exit , it was Nico who misjudged how close Dan was , and moved into his path too early .

It's that space thing . You need to leave enough . It's what they told Kimi .


Sorry for arguing the point again .
We need not agree .

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No need to apologise, all good. I guess it comes down to this point, is a driver entitled in a situation like that to cut across another driver? To me, I think yes they should be able to as they should be entitled to do anything which should not end up in contact to defend their position. In this case, I feel Rosberg had the racing line, he took it and at the time he took it, there was really no way he could have known it would end up in contact. Danny was coming from off the racing line onto it. In that situation, where the driver has the racing line, if an incident occurs, I think fault should like with the driver coming back onto the racing line. I can see your viewpoint however, and it's really a matter of what stance you take. Maybe both are valid points and, if that's the case, it's just a racing incident.

The racing line is the track :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Big Ben

The racing line is the track :rolleyes:

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mmmm, the racing line is the optimum path on the track that gives the fastest lap time. It may be partly off the track limits.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

No need to apologise, all good. I guess it comes down to this point, is a driver entitled in a situation like that to cut across another driver? To me, I think yes they should be able to as they should be entitled to do anything which should not end up in contact to defend their position. In this case, I feel Rosberg had the racing line, he took it and at the time he took it, there was really no way he could have known it would end up in contact. Danny was coming from off the racing line onto it. In that situation, where the driver has the racing line, if an incident occurs, I think fault should like with the driver coming back onto the racing line. I can see your viewpoint however, and it's really a matter of what stance you take. Maybe both are valid points and, if that's the case, it's just a racing incident.

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Both points are valid , but there needs to be a definitive rule that covers even ones as close as this .

And , I believe there already is .
If you look at the Kimi/Valterri cases , all and sundry called kimi an idiot(except Mia , of course) , and that was because he knew he was there and that Bottas was on the curbing already , unable to give more room .

I don't think I ever read any comments that criticized Bottas for not lifting to avoid either contact , and the second contact had Kimi climbing over his front wheel , so it shows that Kimi was ahead .

So , given that the first one had Kimi chastised for not giving space , and the second one didn't have Bottas penalized , it gives us two consistent rulings which both seem to say you need to leave space .

In neither incident was Bottas expected to lift , though , and it might have saved him a collision both times .
Same logic should apply to your example , I think .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

I don't think I ever read any comments that criticized Bottas for not lifting to avoid either contact , and the second contact had Kimi climbing over his front wheel , so it shows that Kimi was ahead .

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Bottas and Kimi were side by side going into the corner, slowing at the apex is more dangerous because whoever is behind would not be expecting Bottas to slow down drastically. They would be expecting both cars to continue though the corner side by side. Kimi could see Bottas was right there next to him, hence trying to move into the racing line; which is occupied by Bottas who was on the inside at the apex, was going to cause a collision. Ferrari would not be very happy with Kimi for the unneccessary DNF, especially since Vettel also crashed out.

I like Kimi but l have to say this was his fault and needs no investigation or clarification.

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Originally Posted by henners88

I suppose Hamilton would argue that considering he has nothing to loose it was worth the risk. The constructors championship is won and a 1-2 is not necessarily important. I think Nico needed the win more than Hamilton and Mercedes supported that.

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Okay, I see what you mean. However, the point I want to make. Even if teams totally dominate F1 seasons and have long ago secured championships, they prefer to maximize race results till the very end. Ferrari kept securing 1-2s till the end of 2002, likewise Red Bull in 2013. Teams, even if everything is "done", do not want bad PR and do not want to look unprofessional. Yeah, they could have told drivers "do what you want, titles are safe, let's have some fun". But they don't.

Hamilton may have had nothing to lose, but Mercedes felt they didn't want to look unprofessional by barely getting through the last few laps of the race.

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Originally Posted by rjbetty

EDIT: Oh man I shouldn't really post under the influence of a bit of alcohol on me night off. Just scrap this.

Don't worry, other posters, I don't hate you. Peace and goodnight

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I don't know, what did you write. But I am sure there have been worse things on the forums! Anyway, all is forgiven! :D

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Originally Posted by jens

Hamilton may have had nothing to lose, but Mercedes felt they didn't want to look unprofessional by barely getting through the last few laps of the race.

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Come on buddy, Is Bottas finishing in 3rd place with a very worn tyre unprofessional? Or Perez finishing 8th with a one stop strategy unprofessional? It has nothing to do with it. But l agree with you that a 1st and 2nd place in the driver's championship would make the season complete for Mercedes. And l agree completely that this is the right way to finish the season.

I just wonder if they [Merc] thought that talking to Hamilton about the game plan would not go down well with the World champion. Or they felt it would not be good for Rosberg's esteem to be seen to win a prearranged race. When you look at it from these two perspectives, then you begin to see how hard it is to manage a team with two great drivers.

I don't think it was a pre-arranged race. We were on a new circuit for teams and tyre durability was unknown - even during the race teams were unsure which strategy to opt for. I think Mercedes initially hoped to make a 1-stopper, but during the race data showed that it might have been too optimistic. And of course, if the team took the decision during the raec to alter the strategy (due to new data/information, which had emerged) they wanted to treat both drivers equally and bring them in.

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Originally Posted by jens

Hamilton may have had nothing to lose, but Mercedes felt they didn't want to look unprofessional by barely getting through the last few laps of the race.

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It's more that just looking unprofessional. Mercedes need to protect their assets (car & driver). If they felt the tyres wouldn't last another 20 laps, then leaving him out there to fight (even if Lewis wants to) is irresponsible, dangerous and risking the health of the world champion.

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Originally Posted by Firstgear

It's more that just looking unprofessional. Mercedes need to protect their assets (car & driver). If they felt the tyres wouldn't last another 20 laps, then leaving him out there to fight (even if Lewis wants to) is irresponsible, dangerous and risking the health of the world champion.

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The world champion is not a robot, he has intelligence to know when he needs tyres. If the team had not forceably pressed him to pit, he would driven the car until he needed a change of tyres. Nannying the driver was what Whitmarsh did that drove Hamilton from Mclaren to Mercedes, he does not need that.

For those still going on about the first corner at Austin, see what a real racer thinks about it http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/34703811

Lewis trying to take advantage of Nico isn't as much of an issue for me as his second guessing his strategists once they had told him it was the safe thing to do .
He told them he didn't think it was the right move , but that he'd do it anyway .

And , then he further pushed it afterwards , saying that all it was , was a warm gesture from the team towards Nico .

But , then , do you think that Nico would have considered the stop if he had any inkling that Hamilton might not ?
I don't think so .
No , Nico would have been told that the team were going to bring them both in so to be safe until the end .

And , as such , would have had pretty fair reason for complaint , had Hamilton been allowed to continue without , especially if he had made it to the end in first place .
No similar choice was on offer to Nico .
He was not told to baby his tires to last 20 more laps . He was told to pit because the first ones were down to 10% .

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Originally Posted by jens

Okay, I see what you mean. However, the point I want to make. Even if teams totally dominate F1 seasons and have long ago secured championships, they prefer to maximize race results till the very end. Ferrari kept securing 1-2s till the end of 2002, likewise Red Bull in 2013. Teams, even if everything is "done", do not want bad PR and do not want to look unprofessional. Yeah, they could have told drivers "do what you want, titles are safe, let's have some fun". But they don't.

Hamilton may have had nothing to lose, but Mercedes felt they didn't want to look unprofessional by barely getting through the last few laps of the race.

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Spot on Jens. A F1 team will without fail want to win every Grand Prix they enter even if championships are done. The numbers get bigger and it could be your last.
Even in the final round of a season where you 1-2 on every race, you would be daft to not look after the 1-2 in the last few laps.

Sent from my GT-I9301I using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by steveaki13

Spot on Jens. A F1 team will without fail want to win every Grand Prix they enter even if championships are done. The numbers get bigger and it could be your last.
Even in the final round of a season where you 1-2 on every race, you would be daft to not look after the 1-2 in the last few laps.

Sent from my GT-I9301I using Tapatalk

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If they were far enough ahead to have a pit stop in hand , then maybe you could let them race , but the Merc has a hard time behind another car , seemingly , so it's only a try at a risky , "keep your tires sweet" gamble that might get you there . That's why Lewis thought it wasn't a good idea to stop .

But , there's enough bad blood between them right now that it wouldn't be a good idea to have them arguing over space anyway . That would get too expensive , and risk the 2nd place in the WDC .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

If they were far enough ahead to have a pit stop in hand , then maybe you could let them race , but the Merc has a hard time behind another car , seemingly , so it's only a try at a risky , "keep your tires sweet" gamble that might get you there . That's why Lewis thought it wasn't a good idea to stop .

But , there's enough bad blood between them right now that it wouldn't be a good idea to have them arguing over space anyway . That would get too expensive , and risk the 2nd place in the WDC .

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I am not sure what race you were watching, it certainly does not sound like Mexico.

Rosberg goes from here to win back-to-back races. Or how much is it Hamilton not really being fully in the game after securing the WDC? Then again Rosberg is good enough driver to beat Hamilton a few times on merit over a season anyway.

Five consecutive poles? Not bad, but as usual with Nico - he is on average a better qualifying driver than race driver.

Kimi's contracts is only for next season, so Ferrari could lure Niko. But could he beat Vettel in similar machine? If Honda gets their act together, mac could be an option?

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Originally Posted by COD

Kimi's contracts is only for next season, so Ferrari could lure Niko. But could he beat Vettel in similar machine? If Honda gets their act together, mac could be an option?

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I like your ideas. That would be fantastic to see. Then Ricco into the Merc. Max into the Bull. Bottas into the Mac. Yes please. (wish list only)

Rosberg is whit the best and warmest team he can be. Where is hotter then hell?