Beating a mentally broken Latvala and a still developing Mikkelsen for four years is hardly any more impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
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Beating a mentally broken Latvala and a still developing Mikkelsen for four years is hardly any more impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
I don't agree. "Beating Latvala in VW", as if Latvala has ever been in the fight for any title except for 2014, but still at a distance. Hirvonen, who everyone underestimates, was leagues above Latvala in terms of being a complete driver and a threat for the title, he was way more consistent.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Gronholm, Solberg, Hirvonen, Sainz and the others made up for a very good competition, especially at the beginning of Loeb's career.
Then we had 2009-2010, with only 2 manufacturers and Hirvonen being the only real threat (as Latvala was crashing too often anyway), before winning the 2011 title against Hirvonen and Ogier, and again in 2012 with Hirvonen as teammate.
On the other hand Ogier had a very thin competition during his VW days, with other cars unable to compete and teammates who never fought for championships.
I agree that Ogier has the plus of winning titles with different manufacturers, but to me it doesn't go much further than that.
the funny is that YOU said that Ogier had better competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Explain to us how Latvala,Mikkelsen,Breen,Neuville etc is ''bigger competition'' against Sainz,Kankunnen,Mc Rae,Gronholm etc.
That is because he was looking to help her, to help him, rather than use her as an excuse why he didn’t achieve XYZ.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
And it worked, she got herself in rhythm and off they went.
Let’s be honest, she was probably extremely nervous as well….
Great job for M-Sport and Loeb who catches the oldest winner record.
On a more global basis, difficult to make a clear evaluation on this one because Monte is a special rally + maybe some test days not adapted (Hyundai?) and also the car development is not fully finished (Hyundai again?)
However, if we make a short-term evaluation:
- the 2 Sebs still prove to be the greatest. I must admit I’m not a huge fan of the situation of seeing them (especially Ogier as he is the incumbent WC) making stints in their favorite rallies or with favorable road positions because it lowers the credit given to the future champion, all the more than the others cannot take the same level of risk (except Evans :D ). But, okay, I can understand the 2 Sebs enjoy to make WRC rallies.
- as in 2017, Ford has a very good car from the start of the season; the main difference is that they do not have an identified (full-time) top-class driver as Ogier and also the high-potential drivers behind the leader are still too soft. I think it will be really complicated for the manufacturer championship against Toyota, even with Loeb in 2 or 3 additional rallies. The question mark is to know if Breen can make a skyrocketing progression such as Tanak to be in the game for WDC; first day was not really good compared with his colleagues but, in the end, he has reached the best result he could hope, considering he has not driven here for a while (+ his test crash).
Greensmith proves he is not only a paying driver; deserved top-5 (even far) after all the troubles with some good times and consistency in the 1st day, a little more average after. He should deliver some good results through the year but probably a little short for the manufacturer championship (all the more if he is reliable so he would not benefit from very good road positions)
Fourmaux already under pressure with a new mistake. He will have to be really cautious in the next 2-3 rallies.
Maybe a little question mark about reliability also with the troubles underwent by Greensmith + a little for Loeb (but not a big concern compared with Hyundai).
- Toyota, maybe the best car now or close with Ford and a proven good bunch of drivers with almost no reliability issues.
For the manufacturer championship, I could be wrong but they confirm to be favorite by far even if behind Ford in championship standings right now: the car is good, the Lappi/Ogier duo may be terrific whereas Hyundai will have to solve reliability issues (and a questionable 3rd car) and M-Sport lacks big drivers.
Would be a little more worried on the WDC; Evans made a new blockhead decision which is not the best thing for your main championship contender; Rovanperä had a lackluster first day as he has sometimes even if he was really solid for the rest with a good result overall. In the end, not much lose but still to be analyzed.
New mistake by Katsuta who gives 2 additional points to Hyundai and which does not end his negative strike since half of last year even if he finishes 8th overall. I personally think that Toyota is too permissive with him.
- really difficult for Hyundai. Bad testing conditions affect the 1st day; the rythm was not bad during the Friday (but not better than the others) and a lot of reliability issues ... and reliability is not easy to solve within a season (Toyota had to wait 2018 to solve most of their reliability issues). And already a lot of manufacturer points lost with no 2nd car at the finish.
Really worried for Tanak, I’m not sure this new regulation suits his driving style and if the car is far, it might be a terrible year all the more if he adds bad decisions (1 spare tyre).
The only positive for them is that they have probably the best full-time driver with Neuville: he makes less blockhead choices than Evans (in the last years at least), he is more polyvalent than Rovanperä, more experienced than Breen and he has shown last year that he is more tenacious than Tanak with a bad car. And Neuville did not lose too much ground against Rovanperä and Breen. So if Hyundai’s car has the best improvement margin (which would sound logical), he is not out of the game for the WDC and the big series of gravel rally may help them.
I Don’t know what to say about Solberg because the smoke thing seems to be a big constraint, let’s hope Sweden will be more relevant.
- in WRC-2, Citroen clearly matches Skoda now for the level of the car. Still, even if he has been contested, Mikkelsen’s win here against a bunch of Citroen French drivers is a big hit. Only Rossel saves the minimum but still, it’s a lot of points lost for the championship.
The young Skoda-affiliated bunch (Bulacia, Gryazin, Ingram and we can add Lindholm) is probably a little soft to be sure to clinch the title against Rossel, Suninen, Huttunen and maybe Ostberg. So Toksport will probably use Mikkelsen for a full 7-rally program (only MC was in the deal until now) and he will be difficult to beat with his Ogier-approach.
Big result from Cais for his 1st Monte, clearly a high prospect to follow.
Kankunnen did many seasons vs Loeb? McRae? Sainz did two and was basically same age as Loeb is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Skip over Tanak and mention Breen that never won a rally vs Ogier....jeez.
Yes I think that Ogier had better competition and rules (2 day gravel clearing) and other issues (VW exit, "semi works" MSport ) against him so that I rate his results higher. But think that Loeb could have achieved same results if he was in same situation.
As a person I like Loeb better.
Yet you two malakas have to go full retard...
entry list monte 2004
https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries...te-carlo-2004/
entry list monte 2013
https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries...te-carlo-2013/
LOL
but yeah... ogier beat a driver with mental issues that retired at 30 and a driver that lost a cghampionship by crashing on super specials... and he lost to a driver that made mcrae look consistent....
can you imagine anyone apart from that butthurt colin clark (who was never man enough anyways and he did not make a single comment regarding Loebs win) nobody referring to Ogier as legend ?Quote:
Originally Posted by René
the sick dog will be forgotten in no time...
Mikkelsen did a good job and starts his season proper (even if he was less dominant than last year, and even less then the year before where he was stellar)Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny0405
The most impressive must have been Rossel : for his first "big league" rally, he could have won save for a few last day mistakes. This young fella has a bright future given that he probably still has a lot of upside. He is also no slouch on gravel, as demonstrated last year (Acropolis), wich is unsual for a french driver.
Amongst the "Skoda-affiliated bunch", Gryazin has been pretty impressive. He was one of the fastest WRC2 following his first day technical issue (brakes) who cost him 3min ... less than the final gap to Mikkelsen. For someone who has been so crash-prone, he drove a fast and sensible rally. Don't discard him for the title.
I was pretty impressed also by the speed of the Citroen folks (Camilli, Lefebvre) although both crashed. Don't discard them on tarmac rallies to come. Lesser expectatins on gravel - They missed a golden opportunity for the title here...
telling me asshole in my language will not proove that Ogier had better competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Monte Carlo 2017, first event for the new WRC1 cars : Ford 1st and 3rd, 3rd with a young Tanak, finally coming to the ages after years of unfulfilled promises
Monte Carlo 2022, first event of the new Rally 1 cars : Ford 1st and 3rd, 3rd with a (not that young) Breen, finally on a full WRC campaign after years of scattered results
History seems to repeat itself, could te end of year be the same with Ford winning both titles ?
Seems pretty far fetched, unlesss (i) Loeb competes in at least 5-6 events (ii) Breen delivers on the fast flowing rallies that he seems to favor (starting with Swedento come) and (iii) Fourmeaux stops crashing, just as Tanak did in 2017!
I do not discard Gryazin (or any Skoda young folks) who made a good job here but with his spin in PS, he already misses some good points even if he has limited the loss (compared with Ingram and Bulacia) thanks to the issues of Munster and Rossel. So, right now, the best option for WRC-2 to beat Suninen-Huttunen-Rossel (and maybe Ostberg) is still Mikkelsen; not impossible for the other Skoda guys but less sure. So best option for both Skoda and Mikkelsen is to follow together even if Mikkelsen obtains some drives in WRC in addition to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by djip
On Rossel and the other Citroen guys, I think they missed a big opportunity here as it was a favorable ground for them, all the more than they all knew well this type of Rallye. They show great speed so they should bring big competition to Skoda during the season but may be short for the title (except if Ostberg is also in the mix).
But most impressive for me was Cais’ consistency for a 1st time here. Even if he is too young for WRC-2 Open title (and too much-tarmac centered). Surprised to see best Czech prospect for a while against Skoda.
proove that he still got it
https://twitter.com/ACM_Media/status...79743876509696
And one last hopefully to close the debate on Loeb vs. Ogier : As drivers, both are GOAT. What they achieved in unbelievable, seemed always "easy" to them and luck has no play here. You create your own luck. It is always the same drivers which errors are costly, and those wich remain just under the limit and find a way to get out of hairy situations... And trying to compare different times is pointless. At a time where events where much longer, retirements from on out of two event the norm, and almost nobody had the luxury on a full season, why would drivers such as Aaltonen, Carlsson, Therier, Rorlh, Mikkola, Makinen (both Tomi and Timo), etc ... be less extroardinary ? Just because all of these (save maybe for Rorhl), had ups and downs, whereas both Sebastiens seemed to be piling up victories and titles year after year ... and more as demonstrated by Loeb today.
At the same time, Loeb appears a total class act, and a always-happy fellow, when Ogier seems to be grumpy most of the time...
About that HY being at the rear of the panel....
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJvHO6rX...jpg&name=large
That came as a surprise to Loeb, who had been at a loss to explain why he wasn’t fast on sealed surfaces during his prior two-year stint at Hyundai in 2019 and ’20.
When asked by DirtFish if he thought winning the Monte had been a possibility on his return to the WRC, Loeb replied: “I didn’t, no.”
“I was a bit more confident on gravel than on Tarmac, from my last experience. What is nice is that I didn’t lose my speed on Tarmac.
“When finally I have a car that suits my driving, it’s going quite well. So I’m really happy for this.
“I didn’t know if I can [win], no. I didn’t even think that.”
Loeb’s victory this week is in stark contrast to his previous Monte start in 2020 with Hyundai, where he was running fourth for most of the rally before a tire gamble backfired and dropped him to sixth on the last day.
That rally had been a stark contrast to his final outing with Citroën, the team with which he won all nine of his world championship titles, where he won the 2018 edition of Rally Spain.
Not getting to grips with the previous-generation i20 Coupe WRC on asphalt had made Loeb question whether he was still capable of running at the front.
“It was one thing I was always thinking about: I didn’t know why when I did my comeback with Citroën in Catalunya, the next year I finished the gravel leading the rally and then I was slow like hell on Tarmac. I never understood how I could lose everything in one year.
“Now it seems I didn’t lose everything, so I’m happy about that.”
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/loeb-...n-wrc-anymore/
Sébastien OgierQuote:
Originally Posted by djip
@SebOgier
·
3h
Studio microphone "There was a strange noise on the engine at the start, I was a bit disturbed and maybe I released a little earlier. I can keep the head up, I did the job this weekend. That's the way it is. Well done to the team, a good weekend for the 1st time with the hybrid"
Ok this wasn't necessary but God damn!Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Did someone see this.
The ford is the only car which uses the hybrid power out of hairpins proper. When the car is straight and has no wheel slip it releases the hybrid boost. Other cars release extra boost immediately when applying power out of hairpins. So it all goes lost in wheelspin.
In stages with less hairpins and slippery hairpins ford has more difficulty to win.
The advantage in medium and long corners is not there because there is hardly wheel spin.
There must be some kind of system in the ford that checks wheelspin before it releases the hybrid boost.
Just watch wrc live and look at slippery hairpins and see when ford releases it hybrid boost and compare it to other cars.
Maybe i am wrong but i could see the difference.
Let's hope it's not deemed illegal, as it sounds suspiciously like a sneaky traction control in principle, which I believe is not allowed in Rally1 cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvEvo
Or maybe the Puma drivers were just more cautious on the throttle, based on the reporting I believe the boost is tied to the throttle pedal position.
Was talking with some friends yesterday, that there would be one record Loeb wouldn't get, and that's the oldest podium finisher. Then again. I wouldn't be surprised to see Loeb on the entry list for Monte Carlo 2037. He'd only be three years older than Delecour and Burri this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by doubled1978
May have a mapping that delays pick-up/applies gradually/doesn't apply hybrid under a certain speed when not on launch control. That way you avoid having full power out of slow corners. They are pretty free when it comes to how to map it.Quote:
Originally Posted by USER47
What if it's not mapping and just the same principle as the "kick down" you have in cars with automatic gearbox? You can easily make some mechanical resistance you need to push through, so you don't activate the hybrid by error. Just my guess but it could be so simple...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=884yfLRcuRg
Amazing video from Passats. Check Ogier @ 30s!!
thats right.You can control boost pressure accordingly and have almost same effects.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
ie like antilag mappings.
De Villers video with top speeds
https://youtu.be/AlQ9HFx4h-E
It looks like Skoda are going with Stritesky who made some eye catching times in the Czech Championship early last year but at this stage Cais is definitely a more complete and impressive driver. I don't know if he wanted to not go the Skoda route or if Skoda wouldn't consider him because he drives with a Ford but it looks like a missed opportunity for them right now.. perhaps some Czech guys can fill us in?Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny0405
2022 Rallye Monte-Carlo - Transcript of the post-event press conference organised by the FIA
https://www.fia.com/news/wrc-s-loeb-...re-we-expected
Loeb and his daughter doing backflips on the Monte Carlo Podium after getting 1st place 20 years after his first on-road win. Please stop they're all already dead.
lol
Kimmo Töyrylä
@imitaattori1981
Winner of Rallye Monte Carlo 2042
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJ0AEPCX...pg&name=medium
I think if you’d tell anyone back in 2003 that in almost 20 years’s time you’d have two Sebs fighting for a Monte win and finally see Loeb take (& equal) that 8th win they’d think you’re being mad.
Yes. I think that was quite rude. I think he suddenly kicked the car in gear while the camera crew was half inside the car.Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalParadox
As I understand that was a mistake and he was sorry for losing his control, but we'll see.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Yes he was furious at the car, and I’m guessing a bit at the team, but as someone here already mentioned, he has his fair share in their situation. His crash certainly didn’t help.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Top speeds.
https://youtu.be/AlQ9HFx4h-E
It is not hard, you check that the delta of wheel speeds are within a reasonable number and there is now yaw in the movement of the car and that should give you an idea if the car is sideways or turning etc then in the torque demand map you just input this condition in the software and there you have it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvEvo
Yep, fine tuning like this is the reason different HY maps are a thing, otherwise they might as well run with a spec controling unit from compact dynamics.Quote:
Originally Posted by logic